Opinion Talk

By Home School Parent

March 24, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

Why do home school parents need a worthless certificate to teach at home? Teachers in government schools already need a certificate in order to teach in government schools and apparently it isn’t helping these teachers educate our children – hence HOME SCHOOLING!

By me

March 24, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Who in their right mind thinks that the public school as a whole is doing a better job of educating our children than homeschool parents are as a whole? Why in the world would we want to mimic our public schools?

By HS Teacher

March 24, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

As a public school teacher, I know I am certified to teach all subjects K -12; very rare. I worked hard to make that happen by going to college for many extra years.

I don’t know too many parents who are knowledgeable enough to home school their child K - 12 in all subjects. Of course, even private schools don’t have to have certified teachers. Those who want Charter School Systems need to understand the teachers do no have to be certified.

By Michael

March 24, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Public School teachers are great. The system that protects the right of one thug over the education of the other 27 students is broken however.

By Common Sense

March 24, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Requiring a teaching certificate is ridiculous. These rules would prohibit the following: Albert Einstein wouldn’t be allowed to teach Physics, Plato couldn’t teach Philosophy, Galileo couldn’t teach Astronomy, Bill Gates couldn’t teach Computer Science, Shakespeare couldn’t teach English Literature and Jesus Christ couldn’t teach a course on Christianity. Ludicrous!!

By Fred

March 24, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

No way should parents be required to have a teaching certificate to home school. It is doubtful if a parent is truly dedicated to teaching their children that the public schools are going to do a better job. The problems occur when parents are not dedicated to teaching their kids.

By Brian

March 24, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

Monet, Da Vinci, Mozart, Irving Berlin, Thomas Edison, John Quincy Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Benjamin Franklin, John Jay (Supreme Court Justice for those who go to “public schools”)and Albert Schweitzer, just to name a few, were all home schooled. Need we say more? Government school teachers have one loyalty only and that is the NEA.

By lisa

March 24, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Some of the greatest minds in history were home schooled; Agatha Christie, Mark Twain, Ansel Adams,Booker T. Washington, Thomas Edison, Woodrow Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt to name a few. Homeschooling parents are dedicated to teaching their children in many areas of study, some that the public schools do not touch. The children thrive because they are being taught by the person that has the most invested in them, their parents! It isn’t broke, it doesn’t need to be fixed. Public education is where the failure lies. Government taught children are falling behind other countries.

By John

March 24, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

HS Teacher - I see that all those years of experience helped you learn the word NOT.

As some one who has educated teachers at the university level I can say that education is broken. BTW you do not need a teaching certificate to teach at a university. One of my friends wanted to retire from teaching college level history and teach in high school. He could not because he didn’t have a certificate (or belong to a teachers union).

Parents can do a great job with their own kids. Government schools are not getting the job done. NO - parents may not be experts in math, history, or English however neither are existing teachers - no matter what piece of paper they have.

By steve

March 24, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

Lets get one thing clear before this debate goes too far. This was a ruling by a california state court, it has absolutely no binding effect in Georgia whatsoever and as such does not have any effect on homeschooling in this state. Now with that said, i think it is insane to require a parent to have a certificate to homeschool their child, whats next?

By common sense

March 24, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

In general, parents do not want to home school their children. They do it because the system is failing. It may be that they don’t like what they are being taught. Or, perhaps they don’t like the idea that much of education tilts to the left. Maybe, the idea of having their children taught at the pace of the slowest child in class is one they don’t prefer. But, I guess if you live in the wacko state of California, that’s just tough!

By NoWay

March 24, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

If the state (California in this case) can require a parent to have a certificate of education from the State to teach their own children, what else can the state require. How about if they require a certification to parent your children? Or even to have a child?

By Yolanda

March 24, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

I beg to differ that not too many parents are “knowledgeable enough” to home school their children. I’ve seen many children come out of home schooling a great deal brighter and more pre-disposed to critical thinking than those placed in America’s school system, a system so bent on standardized testing that children aren’t even taught the basics before filling in the bubble is shoved down their throat.

The American school system is a colossal failure, and it is a brave and intelligent parent that decides to home school their children or send them to someone willing AND able to do so.

When I think back through my own public-school prison term, I can’t think of one teacher who displayed a remarkable learning style or whose “intelligence” influenced my own in any way — no matter how many initials hung at the end of their name.

I also can’t think of one who promoted my freedom to express myself creatively, in the learning process –- that might have interfered with all the standardized tests I just had to ace, if I wanted to get into a good college, I guess.

But I CAN think of more than a dozen non-certified teachers I’ve met since moving out into the “real” world, who have taught me more in a day than I learned sitting in a classroom setting — from grade school to college — for over 23+ years.

So, it’s not the quantity of the education or the degree attainment of the individual, but the quality of their teaching and their willingness to share knowledge on levels that all can understand AND want to understand. If we were less adamant about ridiculous certifications that are nothing more than MORE money for corporate interests to fill their coffers, and showed genuine concern that our children are graduating from high school and cannot perform basic math calculations and write a legible essay, let alone read and comprehend a simple reader, we’d be seeing less of a generalized dumbing down of society.

Or is that what this is really about? Dumb them down and mold them into conformist — worker bees? I mean, wasn’t that compulsory schooling’s founding objective anyway?

By John

March 24, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Although certification shouldn’t be required, the State should require a parent who home schools to (1) have at least a 4-year college degree in some subject and to not have any outside employment during the normal 8 to 5 day. This should be common sense.

By Public School teacher

March 24, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

I’ve known some excellent home school parents who didn’t have certificates. They were able to provide excellent instruction to their children in an ideal, controlled setting. The problem is that there is no monitoring and no accountability to speak of- any parent can say he or she is “homeschooling.” I have two different children in my ninth grade class this year who were homeschooled for a year who have admitted their parents did nothing and only took them out of school to avoid discipline situations.

Certification- Not necessary. Mandated, monitored accountability system for homeschools- absolutely. The truly good ones would have no problem “making the grade.”

By rick

March 24, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

the better question…why would we want to follow the lead of California?

By Public School teacher

March 24, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

When I think back through my own public-school prison term, I can’t think of one teacher who displayed a remarkable learning style or whose “intelligence” influenced my own in any way — no matter how many initials hung at the end of their name

Yolanda- it’s sad you had such a bad experience, but I suspect you were likely one of the kids I often find challenging who see no value in anything I have to offer them anyway. You should become a teacher and fix the system then.

The reason public schooling has its faults is that people who have no skills as parents, who are uninvolved and disinterested in their children send them to school so we can raise them. What can you expect from a system that is required, by law, to educate every child regardless of interest, behavior, or family dysfunction?? You want to fix the system, fix the parents and families of our neglected, abused, ignored, and unloved children who take way too much of our time and resources such that we can’t teach the ones who really want to learn.

By kris

March 24, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Homeschool is great for some but some students are not being homeschooled and are grade levels beyond those so called students in government schools. All you jerks who hate government schools so much…we do have students who are college ready and ready to compete global….speak about what you know…not what yhou think you heard on the Neil Bortz show…..

By kris

March 24, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Homeschool is great for some but some students are not being homeschooled and are grade levels beyond those so called students in government schools. All you jerks who hate government schools so much…we do have students who are college ready and ready to compete global….speak about what you know…not what yhou think you heard on the Neil Bortz show…..

By Public School teacher

March 24, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

He could not because he didn’t have a certificate (or belong to a teachers union)

John- there are lobbying organizations in Georgia that are not legally or in any way UNIONS. If your friend wanted to teach high school, there were, and are, several options available for him to work and earn certification. Perhaps if he were as educated as you say, he would have known that. Teachers in Georgia are without unions and frankly don’t need them at this point. However, even the hardest working, most dedicated of us get nothing but bashing from the general public who have no idea the challenges we face each and every day to educate even the most disinterested, disengaged, ill-behaved children. Become a teacher and then judge the system.

By Parent of 5

March 24, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

I have 5 children who range from college senior to eighth-grader. In total, cumulatively, I have paid tuition to private schools for a total of 37 years. With that said, the most progress any of the 5 made was the 4 years that they were homeschooled by my wife, who possesses a GED.

Government education is a systemic failure. The government should have no control over a parent’s choice of education. I agree that some homeschool parents may lack the adequate diligence that I want to see, but the failure rate is probably lower than that of public education.

By Public School teacher

March 24, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Here’s another thought. Perhaps it’s time to exercise our rights and vote for legislators who will make the changes we’re all crying for in our school systems. If it is indeed so bad, it became that way because of legislation written by the representatives we voters put in place. The current testing nightmare was created to answer parental demands for accountability. Teachers don’t like it either, but nobody asked us anyway. If it needs changing, and it certainly does, then let’s get out and vote and demand the changes. Complaining about the problem when you have the right and responsibility to fix it accomplishes nothing. There are many very devoted teachers out there who would applaud the efforts to change this current mess. We have no power on our own and must do what the law requires. Changing the system requires changing the laws and lawmakers responsible for the problems.

By Public School teacher

March 24, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Parent of 5- your wife is to be praised for her efforts. The reason homeschooling is so successful is that it reduces the teacher/student ratio and frees the teacher to do what is best for each child. Who knows them better than their own mother? Homeschool parent who are dedicated are the best teachers out there in my opinion.

Teachers in our schools have anywhere from 18 in elementary to 28 or more per period in high school. No matter how devoted, that’s a huge challenge. When I get to teach classes that have 15 or fewer, I see the kind of progress you have seen in a homeschooling environment. I’ve had classes with as many as 35 children. There’s simply no way to provide the one-on-one that children get in a homeschool. I do, however, think that there needs to be some sort of way to monitor a homeschool to make sure it is as successful as your wife made it.

By tricy

March 24, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

I agree that the parent should at least have a degree and there should be some mechanism to monitor progress. I think it may be ok at the lower levels of education but their aren’t many people that have the ability to master every subject at the high school level. Also, I know of several situations where the parent was suppose to be home teaching the child and the parent was working.

By Lisa

March 24, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

Homeschooling is a bonus for most children. There are terrific options of curriculums, unit studies, field trips etc for homeschool parents who may or may not be degreed. The information available for parents to use is astonishing, most of which is available for teachers as well. Curriculums are often more demanding as homeschoolers can learn at their own pace, not everyone else’s. You can spend the time since you only have a few students not 25 or more. Parents are willing to invest time into homeschooling not expect a teacher to instill everything into a child. How many public school students have 2-3 hours of homework a night…and who helps them with that? The same parents who are currently homeschooling. A degree is certainly not required to find and administer good curriculums which come with a teacher’s edition and often parent support lines. And who said homeschooling has to happen from 8 - 5 Monday thru Friday. My husband and I work different hours so we can be home but school is often done in the evenings together …as I finish my masters. I have that degree in education for those people who think it is necessary??? but as a homeschool parent who has one, I think much of what I teach has nothing to do with my degree and more to do with mentoring.

By tddawg

March 24, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Home-schooling and private education are the preferred forms of education in feudalism and absolutist societies. Both are undemocratic—idiodicy was the Greeks’ term. An idiot was one who ignored neighbors, community, and citizenship in favor self-interest. The lack of historical understanding and the purpose of education in democracies among the commentators here testifies to their ignorance and inability to raise a generation ready to protect democracy, much less comprehend the ideas they purport to teach. Shame on the media for concocting a crisis since 1983, and shame on the GA politicians trying to dismantle the last authentic space for American community.

By tddawg

March 25, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

…and shame on so many religious people for using God to ignore their neighbors. Remember Christ’s command was to “go into all the world.” That certainly does not excludes the public school on the corner.

By H

March 25, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

As someone who works in a Home School department for a local school system, I say yes. When you have a parent that’s supposedly home schooling their child, but they can’t form a coherent sentence or are illiterate, then I think there’s a problem. Also, if you don’t know that there were only 29 days in the month of February, not 31, then you should not be home schooling your child.

By HS Parent

March 25, 2008 6:29 AM | Link to this

To all, As one of two homeschool parents,(my Wife and I both), We are both dedicated to the advancement of our 3 children. We realize that we are not masters of all the subjects and make great effort to find teachers/courses that will give our children the best education in the correct, disciplined, encouraging, enviroment of OUR CHOICE.

As far as I am concerned the government, be it the State or the Federal has NO right or responsibility to tell us, or anyone for that matter, how to educate our children.

For all of you who decry our “Non-Accountability” I have some news for you. We are required to submit reports of attendance (Time spent in instruction) to our local school system on a monthly basis. We are also required to have our children tested(At our own cost) every 3 years with the same tests as Publc shool children. Thus far our children are at the least equal to if not far exceeding their grade levels.

We are just as accountable, if not moreso than traditional school parents. Heck, At least we put the time and interest into rasing and educating our children!! Unlike so many others in our society today.

While some may feel this is a “Wonderfull” idea, I see it as a continued erosion of our right of choice and just anotherway for the State/s to collect more revenue and insure the “Status Quo”.

By dave

March 25, 2008 6:39 AM | Link to this

I think it should 100% mandatory that anyone who wants to home school their children have not only a certificate, but in the very least a bachlors degree as well. I moved from the Alpharetta/Milton area up to the No. GA. mountains near Dahlonega and witnessed several families that home schooled their children. These people could barely read and right themselves. They had no command of the english language (the one you want to be manditory by our government….right!….huh?!?!)… These people were “D” students at their best. I know them from volunteering at a local animal shelter. Their kids were always there with them (their parents worked there)… they never studied, never did any work with them, at the very most I’d see them tell their kids to go read something for about an hour. For all I know these parents did not even have HS diplomas themselves. I am not saying ALL that homes school are like this…but yes many are. And NO they do NOT have a right to teach their children. Their must be some level of competence in order to break this mold of barely functional adult passing on their lack of skills and a lazy attitude to their children. This had nothing to do with their children’s social skills, but I can certainly say that these poor children were being “robbed” of the very chance to get a “decent” education… as whatever it was they were getting…it was NOT an education.

Now I ask of you that homeschool… DO you believe that these parents I just wrote about have the right to educate their children? Even if they themselves may not have a HS diploma? Please answer honestly. Thanks, -dave

By Chip

March 25, 2008 7:01 AM | Link to this

I find it humorous that most of the home schooling parents, that I have met, maintain a condescending view of public schools and public school teachers. I find that these parents are not teaching their children, but rather, learning along side their children. Teaching requires more than knowledge of a subject or subjects. It requires management skills. If one takes a good, hard look at schools in their area and are not satisfied, then move to a district where things may be different. Chances are that if your local school is not performing, there are reasons that go beyond the school. Of course parents who home school should require certificates. The state has set standards that home schoolers must be able to meet. The experiential notion is also humorous. To say that you home school because you ant your children to have more real world experience is ludicrous. Take them to places after school or on weekends. Home schooling should be reserved for those who do so for religious reasons or out of concern that the morals among students have broken down, not because a parent feels they can do a better job teaching than a public or private school teacher.

By NoWay

March 25, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this

I find it astonishing that some people would insist on a particular outcome in homeschool education but not require similar outcomes in public school education.
Parents remain the best equipped and the highest motivated people to care for their kids. We did not choose to homeschool our children all of whom got good public school educations. However, it is and should be our right to have chosen a homeschool education without undue interference from the state protecting its monopoly.

By CW

March 25, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

If there was evidence that homeschooling was failing then perhaps a certificate would be a logical next step, however, the evidence shows clearly that homeschooled children do better than children from public schools in generalized tests including the SAT. Colleges are now actively seeking homeschooled children because they meet or exceed the performance of students from other schools. In 2002 the Princeton valedictorian was a homeschooled child, and Stanford is actively recruiting homeschooled children. This suggests homeschooling in general meets or exceeds public school. A note of caution: I believe the case in California revolves around a homeschooled student’s allegation that he was being abused by his parents. This is an issue that should be taken seriously — homeschooled children could, probably rarely, be subject to abuse by their parents and it would be difficult to identify. In my opinion that is a legitimate concern.

By Dennis

March 25, 2008 7:30 AM | Link to this

The court case sited did not change California law in the least bit. See In Re: Rachel L. et al., Persons Coming Under the Juvenile Court Law, JONATHAN L. and MARY GRACE L., Petitioners, Versus SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES.

California has had compulsory education since 1953 when I was in elementary school there. This case was actually a child abuse situation where the older of eight siblings reported their father to Child Welfare authorities for using physical and mental abuse. The father claimed it was his right to educate his children as he saw fit.

The State Appeals Court upheld the 1953 California Supreme Court ruling that home schooling must be conducted by persons or tutors, or in a program that have persons with teaching credentials for the grade being taught.

The parents of the children in the case were ordered to send them to public school in an attempt to provide them with an education in a safe environment. No law was changed or enacted. Home schooling is alive and well in California. It just must be conducted under the requirements established by the state as it has been since 1953.

By Charles

March 25, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

Home Schooling: Certified teachers only? Should state reguire certification for parents who homeschool?

AJC - it’s “Should the state require certification for parents who homeschool?”

Apparently the Editors at the AJC can’t even get the question right. But what can you expect from a Liberally biased newspaper?

By Byallmeans

March 25, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this

Ignorance is a key factor in this argument. How many who homeschool don’t want their children to rise above their intelligence level? While there are those who actually do give their children a comparable education, so many cannot even come close. Worthless certificate? This qualification is the result of a career of accomplishment from elementary through high school through college through post graduate work which is ongoing throughout their professional careers. Is jealousy at the root of this evil? While there are those teachers who are not as competent as we might like (just like in every other line of work) they are much much more likely to be qualified than someone who lacks the ambition to do the work to be qualified. It is very alarming to learn that someone I went to school with who was a nonachiever throughout and never bothered to advance their education is now homeschooling their children. Chilling! And this says nothing of the socialization the children are deprived of. In today’s schooling environment the teacher is somehow expected to fill in the void for the lack of responsible parenting. How many homeschoolers blame the teachers and schools for their lack of parenting? There are those homeschoolers who are well motivated, responsible and qualified. But they are such a small fraction.

By Copyleft

March 25, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

“Homeschooling… it’s not just for scary religious people any more.” —Buffy—

By CW

March 25, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

Byallmeans makes many unsubstanitated assertions. It is dangerous to take anecdotes and generalize. In no way should the effort to get a teaching certificate be demeaned, it should be praised, but concomitantly parents who chose to homeschool should not be demeaned. Homeschooling has matured greatly over the last 10-15 years and the opportunities for “socialization” have grown significantly. Also, I believe one could make a strong argument that homeschooling environments might be better than public school environments. Just in the past 2 weeks in the Atlanta area there have been 2 shootings, and 2 incidents of large scale fighting at high schools; increasingly we see reports across the country of public school teachers in improper relationships with students. The NYTs has a story of one 16 year old child in Arkansas who has been repeatedly beaten by other students since he was 12 and the school system has not intervened. As far as the competence of parents to teach, unless there is evidence, any assertion of incompetence betrays prejudice; one should be careful in such circumstances.

By PublicSchooled

March 25, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this

You can get a quality education through the public school system. It comes down to the efforts of the parents and students. It is there to be had.

By Booyah

March 25, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

Some level of oversight is appropriate to ensure that “homeschooling” isn’t just a drug addicts excuse for not taking his kids to school. But the “qualifications” of the parent are that this is their child. You have a right to raise your child as you see fit, as long as you aren’t abusing or neglecting him or her.

It’s not appropriate to require parents to meet the same standards as public school teachers. For one thing, homeschooling parents are not teaching 30 kids at a time.

By FredMertz

March 25, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Dave,

Great spelling and grammar! Ausome sentence structure! My homeschooled eight year old can write better than you. Another fine example of a public schooled savant wanting to tell us how to educate our kids. Please stay in the mountains with you animal shelter and banjo…

By JC

March 25, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

In the interest of disclosure I am the spouse of a public school teacher and the parent of public school children.

Is the system broken, yes. Is it the all the teachers fault, no. As a general statement you get what you put in to it. Involved parents have a better outcome but probably a worse experience than non involved parents. There is a tremendous amount of talent in a school especially when it comes to non normal approaches. What I mean by that is I can teach my son history and probably do a very good job in doing so, but if he has problems picking it up I don’t know what to do or were to go to address the issue. Involved parents can work with a teacher and address a broad range of strengths and weaknesses. You can almost have a “specialized program” for your child without taking away from the other children. You just have to communicate. Now I know that is how it works with my wife and her friends (birds of a feather). With that said I know that many of you will list bad experiences. Hopefully they are the exception and not the rule and if not get involved and change it. Back to my original statement the uninvolved parent can have a better experience because they don’t know and maybe don’t care (ignorance is bliss). All things worth while are worth working for so work with your teacher.

The original question was do we need to certify home school parents. I do not believe we need more bureaucracy. My wife is certified but that really was just the start. She spent years studying and learning new ways to teach all children specifically in reading. All of us could do the same. I am sure some home school parents would go the extra mile but we all know some do not and pull their children for the wrong reason. So as far as capability we find ourself in the same position as the we do with teachers. My wife will out teach anybody on this blog (yes I know it is a bold statement and yes I am biased!) but I know that I could probably do a better job than the teacher across the hall from her. It is a complex issue that will take a complex solution, that will require continuous observation. There is a new batch of children and parents every year and the world certainly is not sitting still.

This was a long post to state this. No on certifications. But we must all get involved not just throw rocks. Bring solutions and not problems and even though it is easier to just fix it for your kids (I did it. My son needed help and it looked like it would be a long term issue and I was less than satisfied with the school response, even with an insider! My first reaction was the heck with this we have the talent to do this on our own. I am glad we did not.) We have to fix it for all.

By Susan

March 25, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

The government is to busy educating the illegals here in this country to care about American kids. Gang fights and rapes? I dont think so! My kids will stay safe in a environment fit for learning. My kitchen table. Thanks but no thanks.

By frustrated

March 25, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Requiring that parents who home school their children be certified doesn’t seem like much of a barrier to keeping those parents from home schooling their children, but it might just be a good deterent for parents wanting to avoid sending their kids to school for less then pure reasons. Becoming certified is not that difficult in the state of Georgia, nor is it that expensive, I would expect that any parent who truly wants to home school their child would be willing to go that extra step to do so.

By Ron

March 25, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

By Marc Sutherland

March 25, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

I think a teacher that is handling a classroom of 18+ kids should have a teaching certification, or some specialized training focusing on everything involved with managing a classroom (curriculum development, handling difficult kids, communicating with parents, alternative teaching methods, etc.). However, I don’t feel that a parent who is willing and dedicated to educating their own child needs to go through any teaching certification process. Most parents who decide to teach their own children go above and beyond to make sure their children have a far superior learning experience than that which is offered in the public/private school setting. As a child gets into more difficult subjects (or subjects that are a parent’s weaker subjects), parents will seek outside resources to make sure their children continue to learn at an accelerated pace.
Should a man/woman be required to get a financial certification to invest their own money? Should a man/woman be required to get a mechanics certification to work on their own car?

By dave

March 25, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

Thanks Fred!! “you”…. assclown!

hey…while he’s home…teach your “talibangelical” son that Jesus was real…just like Santa and the Easter Bunny….

By hegelian

March 25, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

Let’s see— homeschooling has a multi-century track record— and public schools? hmmm… no where near as long. So, who should be doing the “certifying”? Isn’t a certificate sorta like a license? and isn’t a license essentially a permission slip? And, according to Black’s law dictionary— a license is permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal. Therefore, the “State” now wants to reverse the roles with homeschoolers—and become the one who gives permission to the parents?? Huhh? Oh, I see how this works.
The state, friends, is like cancer— it spreads— and, of course, the reasons will sound perfectly legit—“It’s for the KIDS sake that we do _.”<—-fill in the blank. WAKE UP— Name one thing the State is very good at! Can you? All you public school teachers who are so proud of your “schooling”—many decades of public schooling has us trailing behind many THIRD world nations in intelligence. Most Americans can’t find Iraq on a map—let alone debate to true cause of the instability and the geopolitical pressures/tensions that require us to be there. So, like always, your State run system is costly, inefficient, and power hungry (like the FEMA, the DEA, the SSA, and all the other alphabet agencies) —so give it more money and power???? No thanks.

By frustrated

March 25, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Working on a car and investing money are not the same as educating a child. If you don’t fix your car correctly then you’re the one to suffer those consequences. If you invest poorly then its your money you loose. If you keep your child home and say you’re homing school him/her and then don’t or do a sub par job then the consequences are felt not by you but by your child. They’re the ones that suffer if you were unable to teach them basic math skills, or how to read and write; not you. Your child has a RIGHT to a decent education, even more then you have the right to raise them as you see fit.

Now I’m not saying that being home schooled won’t provide a kid with a decent education. I know that there are parents out there that provide a wonderful education without the help of public schooling, however I also know that there are parents out there who keep their children home from school just to hide the bruises, and not have to worry about “strangers” interfering with the way they raise their kids. A number of parents keep their kids home out of a desire to keep them in their control…and not the happy kind of control that keeps them out of trouble…but the abusive kind of control that crushes their spirit and leads to life long baggage.

Neither system is perfect, the finished product ie the kids education has to be evaluated on a case by case basis in both scenarios, because each child is an individual and their family is unique, so while some parents have the time, energy and patience to teach their kids at home, some don’t belittling one or the other is wrong.

Now certification may or may not be a good way of seperating the wheat from the chaffe, but at least it is an attempt.

By mad_russian

March 25, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

As a public school teacher, I am certified in the sciences and it is extremely difficult to teach these core subjects to our students. While public education has to take all students in account when teaching subject material, a home schooled student has the advantage of getting individual work. The question I have is how will a parent that is unfamiliar with a subject be able to adequately prepare a child for college? What about AP courses? I am AP certified (a college level course) and how does a home-schooled student receive the proper guidance? Teaching from the book is not the best way to teach. I have found countless error in the so-called academic books. It’s important to look at the disadvantages and advantages rather than attacking public school teachers. Without us, most of our children would not receive any form of education. On a last note, for those that think teaching is easy, I would guarantee that 99% of you wouldn’t last one week in a public school. Unfortunately, teaching is 90% classroom management, 10% teaching. If a teacher can’t get a class into order, then quality teaching will not take place. Period.

By hegelian

March 25, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

Further, Parents today have so many different curricula to choose from that it makes the job very easy (ie: all the “Planning” and paperwork you teachers think is the basis of teaching is already done). So, the parent basically needs to keep tabs on the progress and make sure the child is retaingint he information and don’t allow him to cheat or skirt the system.
As for socialization— If you think that is what school is for than you really have bought into Dewey’s philosophy hook, line, and sinker:

“What about socialization?”

“Oh, I think the word you are looking for is socializing. Socialization is actually defined as the process by which the norms and standards of our society are passed from one generation to the next. I’ve never really thought that a complete strangers six-year old child would be a good source of information on the correct standards of behavior in our family and in society as a whole.”-Martha Ransom.

So, I guess the public school fools out there prefer to socially adept and stupid, rather than smart and possibly socially awkward?? Nice…

By The AllahFuerher

March 25, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

I was homeschooled. But it was a student exchange program. I spent my entire seventh grade on the concorde.

By brian

March 25, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Most people believe that all religious people are the main supporters of homeschooling and I am a Baptist Pastor who does not support it. I think it is a slap in the face to all teachers who spend many years getting the proper education to teach. A certificate should be required of all home school parents.

By brian

March 25, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Most people believe that all religious people are the main supporters of homeschooling and I am a Baptist Pastor who does not support it. I think it is a slap in the face to all teachers who spend many years getting the proper education to teach. A certificate should be required of all home school parents.

By Ray

March 25, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Talk to any college or University admissions director and ask them who they would rather take as college admissions. Home schooled students will win every time.

By The truth

March 25, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Certification? Are you kidding me? I was home schooled my senior year and went to private school before that. My mom is a CPA and my dad is a Chemical Engineer. I trust them more than ANY public school teacher. I was in public school until several teachers starting promoting their own agendas such as: biology-write a paper on black history. english-debate why lesbians are better than men.

My parents were shocked at the idiocy of these teachers and therefore took me out of public schools. I have a masters and I do very well.

As for the “social aspect.” So, what you are telling me is that if a person is home schooled they won’t have social skills? Most of the social skills I see from public school kids are pregnancy, drugs, gangs, and stds. Is that the kind of social skills I needed?

By dave

March 25, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

I truly “wonder” how many home schooled children go on to complete advanced degrees… be it a master’s doctoral, or law degree. My own guess is very very few… If anyone knows better…show me…in writing of course… ;-)

By dave

March 25, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

I truly “wonder” how many home schooled children go on to complete advanced degrees… be it a master’s doctoral, or a law degree. My own guess is very very few…if any. If anyone knows better, or has the statistics…please them show them to me/us …in writing of course… ;-)

By dave

March 25, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Ray, Let me ask… How many home schooled “students” (I use that word lightly) go on to get advanced degrees…doctorate, masters, or a law degree? Does anyone have any conclusive facts “in writing” to show how many actually continue with their education to the “highest degree”…? My own guess is very few, if any, go on to get a masters, or become a doctor, a lawyer, a judge, etc. So…someone…SHOW ME the study or report… Thanks! -dave ;-)

By jw

March 25, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

If you don’t believe a home school teacher or a teacher in the wonderful world of charter and private schools need certificates, then why do the same people who are distressed with the judge’s ruling demand our public educational systems to hire only certified teachers? Would you advocate to the General Assembly to relax the standards on our public educational systems in their hiring practices? Would that not be making the terrible public educational system worse than its current sorry state? Imagine the legislator who suggests our public educational systems to relax their standards to be able to hire “uncertified” teachers. The very same people who are home schooling or in private schools would be in an uproar.

I don’t believe all the Chicken Little, media hyped criticism of the state of public education. The problems you see in the schools are a microcosm of the adult world. Teacher s are now required to be counselors, physicians, and psychiatrists because the parents refuse to do their job in the home. Parents dump their children off at school and hope during the day the teacher will sprinkle their child with magic dust and a college scholarship will magically appear in their book bag. And when their child does not perform up to their standard, obviously it is the fault of the school or teacher and not the parent.

A good education takes work and commitment, both by the child and the parent. It takes reinforcement from home of the lessons being taught at school. If you want your child to excel it takes sacrifice on the part of the family. However there are too many selfish, egocentric folks out there who refuse to sacrifice anything. Even if it is to the detriment of their children. That is sad, but that is the current condition. We have to have two incomes, and we have to live in “x” neighborhood, vacation in the Carribbean in the summer and in Vail during ski season, and we have to have this and that, and my kid has to know algebra by first grade. So, let’s blame our teachers for our failings, because it is certainly not my fault my child is can’t function in society. And please don’t bother me with how poorly my child is doing in school teacher, I only want to hear the good things.

By dave

March 25, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Ray, Funny you would say that… my sister in law in the ehad of admissions for a large state university…I just called her..showed her this thread, and she said you are sadly sadly “mistaken”… she actually requires additional testing of any and ALL that have been home schooled that apply to her university. Few…if any…get in.

If you have documentation to show me otherwise…please provide it. My bet is that you don’t. They’re probably in the very same file with the “proof” of WMD’s and that Saddam had something to do with 9-11 I bet…actually I bet my LIFE on it my friend! :)

By Josephus

March 25, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Certificates should be required. The process for procurring one doesn’t need to be overly onerous, but I think the state does have an interest in making sure that the person doing the teaching has graduated from college.

The lists of famous home schooled people need some help. The vast bulk are from a time when home schooling was necessary due to the LACK of a public school system, or when there were significant problems with transportation. Also, quit trying to kid yourself, your kid is not Mozart. Your kid is normal. Your isolation of your child from a classroom environment will change that, for better or worse, but that’s on you.

By Ron

March 25, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Common Sense: At first your argument makes sense…but usually there is only one person doing the teaching. So do you want Plato trying to teach Physics, or Jesus Christ trying to teach computer science, or Shakespeare trying to teach Astronomy? THAT would be ludicrous.

There are some excellent parents doing home schooling. There are also many uneducated or under-educated parents attempting to do home-schooling, and failing miserably.

By amber

March 25, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

I work at a private school, and I have given tours to parents who homeschool. I can say that 3 out of 4 of our students who are homeschooled needs extra help. The parents are not preparing them for a structured academic environment. One mom told me that if her child did not grasp a concept, she work with him until he did. Even if it took a month they did not move on. She did not keep any academics records and the child has never had any testing. I don not have a problem with parents teaching their kids at home. I think that if you are going to switch them from home to regular school, prepare them.

By RealityKing

March 25, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Studies show that children home schooled by parents with a high school diploma out perform 95% of children educated in the public school system.

So evidently, yesterday’s high school diploma already exceeds today’s teaching certificates.

By CW

March 25, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

dave, here are some data: 1)Homeschooled students on average score 30 points higher on achievement tests (SAT) than public school students (Hadderman 2002); 2)This trend has stood for 8 years (college scholarship.org); 3) About 50% of homeschooled students attend college (Wood 2003); 4) 47% of parents who homeschool have a Bachelors or Masters degre comapared to 33% of non-homeschooling parents (Christian Science Monitor); and 5) Studies show no difference in college performance in first year between homescooled students compared to other students (Journal of College Admissions 2004). It is true that many colleges require more tests (SAT II usually 2-3 and AP Tests) because many homeschooled students do not have traditional transcripts, but Harvard, Princeton and Stanford and others now seek homeschooled students. I hope this meets your request for data.

By Hey Dave

March 25, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Hey Dave, you think it should be mandatory for homeschooler parents to have a degree? You aren’t even smart enought to say “read and write”, you said “read and right” Stop giving your opinion you idiot.

By Tim

March 25, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Although certification shouldn’t be required, the State should require a parent who home schools to (1) have at least a 4-year college degree in some subject and to not have any outside employment during the normal 8 to 5 day. This should be common sense.

John, does not make a whole lot of sense to require a 4 year degree in ANY subject in order to be able to teach your child math. Also, state law requires the average of 4.5 hours per day of instruction over 180 days in a year, same as the public schools. Does not have to be between 8 and 5 Monday through Friday. If my child wants to do 8 hours of work on a Saturday to free up time for something else, they have that choice. We can also school year round, anywhere we want. If my kids want to blast through their next weeks math assignments so the next week they can double up on reading while on vacation, so be it. And yes, we turn in attendance reports to the school district each month and get tested periodically. Neither me or my wife has a degree, ubt we use an accredited home curriculum for our kids and have all their progress tracked.

By RealityKing

March 25, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Academically Home school students scored significantly higher than their public and private school counterparts. The studies below prove homeschool students do exceptionally well when compared with the nationwide average. In every subject and at every grade level of the ITBS and TAP batteries.

Socially Studies also show homeschoolers mature and better socialized than are those sent to school. A nationwide study revealed that the self-concept of home school students was significantly higher than that of public school students for the global and all six subscales of the Piers-Harris Self-Concept Scale. The Galloway-Sutton Study showed that from five success indicators (academic, cognitive, spiritual, affective-social and pyschomotor), comparing with public and private schooled students, “in every success category except pyschomotor, the home school graduates excelled above the other students.”

Cost The average amount spent on home schooling per child in the US is $450 per year.

Household Income 18% of home school families earn less than $25,000, 44% of households between $25,000 and $49,000.

Really people, there is no excuse for ignorance in today’s fast-access environment. Read all about it..> http://homeschoolinformation.com/homeschooling/homeschool_statistics1.htm

By Lisa

March 25, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Two thoughts. One is that most home school children are way above the norm as far as academics so don’t mess with it. However, when I worked at DFCS, I saw homeschooling abused. Parents would say their children were being homeschooled when in actuality they were doing nothing all day long, with the parents even working during the day in some cases. I actually like the idea one person had saying that perhaps the parents shouldn’t be allowed to work during the day hours if they were homeschooling. It really broke my heart to see one particular child, weighing approximately 280 pounds sitting around and doing nothing by himself all day long, but the parent was not breaking any laws so nothing could be done about it.

By dave

March 25, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

CW, your logic is faulty at best. I just sent your post to the admissions office at both Princton and Harvard…I will post their responses here. Home schooling students have very few doctoral degrees and for the most part are NEVER accepted into schools that require near perfect SAT scores. Once again…there is NOTHING any of you that have posted that shows a “study” or anything in WRITING that shows what you post to be true…

CW…show me WHERE you got these numvers from…so i can contact them and follow up…i’m sure you’ll procuce the same things home school students do….NOTHING! ;-)

By Melinda

March 25, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

I had a friend that thought she could take her children out of school to protect them from the world’s EVIL. So she decided to home school them. She removed her 3 children, all with A/B grades, and proceeded to home school them. Within 2 years the County School System visited to determine if the curriculum needs were being met. These 3 children were determined to be behind 2 years and failing almost all subjects. She was ordered to put her children back in school or face criminal prosecution. What in the world would make a parent think they have the ability to home school? My daughter is a school teacher. It took her 4 years college to accomplish this ability. How would someone with no college or training think they would be able to educate others? I can see if you are teaching your children grades 1-3. But above that parents without teaching degrees are short changing their kids. Your children’s education is far more important that your wish to shield them from society. If a parent is so concerned, why are they not more involved in the school programs being offered? Get involved with the schools……….Help the teachers out…

By mddm

March 25, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

I don’t believe that a certificate to teach in a home school environment is necessary for grades K-5 or even K-8. However, I feel that high school subjects (i.e. Auto Mechanics,Calculus, Video Production, Foreign Languages, Engineering, etc.) are subjects that need specialized knowledge and or equipment to successfully teach these subjects. I would love to see a parent that never studied Russian pick up a book and teach correct pronunciation and the cyrillic alphabet successfully. Communicative fluency is the goal-not just to learn some basic phrases like CD programs offer and most parents who teach in a home school environment are not truly bilingual or trilingual!

By CW

March 25, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

dave my earlier submission gives the sources for the data in the parentheses after each item so you can check them yourself. The 2002 valedictorian for Princeton was a homeschooled student, and in Fall 2007 the Harvard Magazine had an article on homeschooled students and how well they do at Harvard.

By Troi

March 25, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

No, the parent should not have to be certified, they have a curriculum to follow and can do so without it (a certificate). Most parents who homeschool take their children on field trips to learn about things that the parent lacks expertise in thus making it a learning experience for the entire family.

By Kidless

March 25, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Let ‘em be homeschooled. Anything so that my tax dollars aren’t going toward their education. You wanted ‘em, you pay for ‘em.

By AEOIRG

March 25, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

IF A HOME SCHOOL TEACHER OFFERS THEIR SERVICES FOR PAY TO OTHER PARENTS, THEY SHOULD BE CERTIFIED AND LICENSED

By Beowulf

March 25, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Wow…for the east coast this topic is pretty heated! More socialist-leaning regions of the country are dealing with this issue quit a bit, but for one state courts in the conservative South are not about to strip away parents’ rights to educate their children. It is hard enough just to get parental rights terminated in abuse cases. Also, if parents want to get true quality home schooling for their children, there are several organizations out there that actually put together rigorous and challenging curricula and materials. Having “briefly” been a high school teacher (couldn’t stand it!) I can say that I taught several former home-schooled students, and they tended to be in the high-achievement group, if maybe a bit socially awkward. Students who are not exposed to this ridiculous society, especially as it exists for teens, sometimes are considered outcasts, but most adjust pretty quickly. Quit insulting each other and do what you think is best for your own kids - some kids do awesome in public schools, while others may need to go as far as a military-based setup. Enjoy being in America, where we have the freedom of choice!

By tim

March 25, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

I’m not for more government, but the current rules, or lack there of, are out-of-control. Without a formal education or testing, how can you teach 1st-12th grade to a child?

And there needs to be RULES on when and where. How many times have you seen kids that are supposed to be in school, out with mommy at the grocery store, restaurant or mall during 8-3?

By Common Sense

March 25, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

Ron, point well taken as it relates to homeschoolers, though any of those in my example could probably teach a whole slew of subjects better than someone with a teaching certificate. I was trying to show that having a teaching certificate is ridiculous, i.e., give me a person with an English degree teaching English as opposed to someone with an Education degree. Plus, we all know that Education is a universal “slacker” major.

By sunshine and thunder

March 25, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

I knew a home schooling father. He was criticized because his children weren’t receiving the “social growth” that goes along with public school.

He said he overcame that problem by taking his son into the bathroom, throwing him up against the wall and stealing his lunch money.

By clarice

March 25, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

I don’t think they should have to have a certificate, however, I do think that those children who are home schooled should be tested every year at a local site, just like school children are. It would be very interesting reading to see who really does better, especially as they get older.

By Parent of 5

March 25, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

There are a lot of people on here who have no idea what they are talking about, they are just promoting a social agenda. Dave, whoever he is, is such an obvious liar than he needs to be ignored.

A serious conversation really boils down to this- the parent has the right to determine what is best for his or her child in the absence of abuse. Public school teachers are not to be attacked because of the failure of the system in which they operate; there are MANY committed teachers in the school system, but if the tools necessary to manage a classroom are removed, the chance of success is remote.

This is distasteful to many, but public education, by every definition, is socialist. The government taxes you- whether you oppose the system, or don’t even have children- in order to provide a service to the whole. If I don’t like the system, I still have to help pay for your children to attend. It is, then, by definition, a form of welfare. If you don’t like the product, and you can afford it, you can try an alternative, but they still take your money. If the schools are poor and you don’t have money, its just too bad, you are screwed.

It amuses me that people who are opposed to socialism don’t see that the government education system represents it in its purest form. I, personally, have never had a child in public schools (below university level- the university system is public school, too, you know), but if that is your choice, that’s your business.

People who thoughtfully choose public school probably support their children and the kids do OK. However, MOST parents in government schools have just forfeited their parenting responsibilities to the state without serious thought- or worse, see that there are better options and are too selfish to sacrifice the time and money to do better for their child.

By Roy Lee

March 25, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Which group of students have won the vast majority of the math, spelling, and geography bees over the last several years? Why “Homeschooled” of course!

By chris

March 25, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

If parents would do a better job of raising their children. Their would not be any problems with our public school systems. Yes home schooled parents need degrees in order to teach their children. They are not going to live at home their entire life unless they are going to have a home school for COLLEGE.

By Michael R

March 25, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Just test the kids. If they cut the mustard, why does it matter who taught them?

By posterchild

March 25, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Common Sense:

Watch it with the “slacker” comment. Them’s fightin’ words.

By Roy Lee

March 25, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Hey Chris, your first group of words is not a sentence. The next word (their) is misspelled. My guess is that you were not homeschooled.

By JustMe

March 25, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this