Autism and vaccines: What's the link? | Opinion Talk

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Autism and vaccines: What’s the link?

By | Thursday, March 20, 2008, 07:32 AM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Journalist David Kirby calls on federal government officials to be more forthcoming about links between childhood vaccines and autism following the government’s acknowledgment in the Hannah Poling case of a connection between the two. Kirby also suggests spreading out vaccines to ease the impact on the immune systems of children at risk. What should be done?

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By Ted P

March 20, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

More research is needed. Recent finding that genes may have a larger roll needs to be explored. Could the vaccines some how �trip� the fragile gene into autism?

By hegelian

March 20, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Delete the needless ones from the regimen. Reduce the total from about 35 or 40 down to about the 5 or 10 most necessary. Never give more than 1 shot at a time. Wait until 2 or 3 years old before giving the first one. That will give the little ones immune system time to build.

By IKnow

March 20, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

http://www.generationrescue.org/vaccines.html

The link above offers three separate vaccine schedules for parents to consider.

The only solution to ending the autism epidemic is to change the national vaccine schedule.

As Mr. Kirby demonstrates, however, our health authorities are in denial and CYA mode. The schedule will not change until the CDC has new leadership.

In the meantime, I would advise a parent to take matters into their own hands. If this information were readily available 4 years ago, I don’t believe I would have a son today with autism.

Mr. Kirby, I can’t quantify how many parents you have helped keep their child from the autism trigger, but it numbers in the 6 to 7 figures. Bravo!!

By Mark

March 20, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

We have a public health bureaucracy that is running out of control with little regard to its true mission and the consequences of its behavior. Thanks David, for shining a light on this problem.

By IKnow

March 20, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

http://www.generationrescue.org/vaccines.html

The link above offers three separate vaccine schedules for parents to consider.

The only solution to ending the autism epidemic is to change the national vaccine schedule.

As Mr. Kirby demonstrates, however, our health authorities are in denial and CYA mode. The schedule will not change until the CDC has new leadership.

In the meantime, I would advise a parent to take matters into their own hands. If this information were readily available 4 years ago, I don’t believe I would have a son today with autism.

Mr. Kirby, I can’t quantify how many parents you have helped keep their child from the autism trigger, but it numbers in the 6 to 7 figures. Bravo!!

By P. Rose

March 20, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

There is only one vaccine schedule I am willing to follow. None! For Gods Sake, there are more problems with vaccines than just causing autism as if that isn’t enough. It has to be pretty obvious to all by now that CDC, NIH, FDA, Public Health Departments are in bed with the pharmaceuticals and the plan is to mandate any and all vaccines for our children. These idiots will stop at nothing, no amount of lawsuits will stop them. There is only one way and that is to refuse to vaccinate. There will never be a safe vaccine. As soon as they take one toxic substance out, they will add another. Here we are 15 years into to fight about the neuro toxicity of thimerisol. Is is out yet, NO! they are still denying it.

By Anne Dachel

March 20, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

The CDC has long ignored the explosion in the autism rate. As the numbers went from one in 10,000 in the 1970s to one in every 150 children today, they told us it just wasn’t happening. All the sick children were the result of “better diagnosing” by doctors and no real cause for alarm. They can’t tell us what causes autism. The only thing they know for sure is that it isn’t the vaccines.

Is it any wonder that Dr. Gerberding plans to ignore the Poling case too?

Anne McElroy Dachel
Chippewa Falls, WI USA

Member of the board of A-CHAMP http://www.a-champ.org

By FEDUP

March 20, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

To those of you who are in denial, deny this: mercury exposure did not raise your kids’ IQ.

THIMEROSAL Hazard symbol: T+ = Very toxic
Criteria: Inhalation, swallowing, or absorption through the skin in very small amounts can cause considerable damage to health, and may sometimes be lethal. In the event of serious evidence of severe, possibly irreversible damage to health by single, repeated, or prolonged absorption. Precaution: All contact with the human body must be avoided. If you feel unwell, seek medical advice immediately!

Symptoms of exposure to this class of compounds includes aphthous stomatitis, catarrhal gingivitis, nausea, liquid stools, pain, liver dis- order, injury to the cardiovascular system and hematopoietic system, deafness and ataxia. Exposure may be fatal. Headache, paresthesia of the tongue, lips, fingers and toes, other non-specific dysfunctions, metallic taste, slight gastrointestinal disturbances, excessive flatus and diarrhea may occur. Acute poisoning may cause gastrointestinal irritation and renal failure. Early signs of severe poisoning include fine tremors of extended hands, loss of side vision, slight loss of coordination in the eyes, speech, writing and gait, inability to stand or carry out voluntary movements, occasional muscle atrophy and flexure contractures, generalized myoclonic movements, difficulty under- standing ordinary speech, irritability and bad temper progressing to mania, stupor, coma, mental retardation in children, skin irritation, blisters and dermatitis [173]. Other symptoms include chorea, athetosis, tremors, convul- sions, pain and numbness in the extremities, nephritis, salivation, loosening of the teeth, blue line on the gums, anxiety, mental depression, insomnia, hallucinations and central nervous system effects [301]. Exposure may also cause irritation of the eyes, mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract [269].

By Wendy Fournier

March 20, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

The CDC’s continued denial of the autism epidemic and refusal to address vaccine safety is disgraceful. How many more families will they destroy? How many more children will they dismiss as collateral damage before they finally admit that they are knowingly poisoning the children of this county - the children that it is their responsibility to protect? CDC and Julie Gerberding are miserably failing in their duties. Vaccine safety should be stripped away from CDC immediately and their Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices - which is chock full of members with financial interest in vaccines - should be disbanded. Ask your reps in Congress to support Congressman Dave Weldon’s bill (HR1973) to establish an independent agency for vaccine safety and get these pathetic, bought and paid for pharma reps away from our children.

By Gatogorra

March 20, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

It’s unprecedented that this information is finally reaching the mainstream press. Had I heard a single whiff of the controversy before our twins were born in 2003, they wouldn’t currently be statistics. I’m only glad that people who are now planning to have children have an opportunity to head off disaster because of the few but outspoken advocates for children’s health who set the record straight about vaccine risks, such as David Kirby. New parents beware: short of losing a child outright (SIDS is linked to hypervaccination as well), there is no more grotesque heartbreak than seeing a child cognitively and physically disintegrate in your arms. Life is never the same. Though some paths of recovery from vaccine injuries are quite miraculous, it’s extremely difficult to bring about and I would rather that other parents were able to enjoy their children as they were meant to be. Better to read about it all in a book than to have to go through it— and David Kirby and others have provided this option. Don’t take it for granted.

By Maurine Meleck

March 20, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Tens of thousands of members of the autism community know that vaccines caused their childrens’ autism and we are NEVER going away until the government admits (what it already knows) that there is a connection between vaccines and autism. It’s way past time for the everyone to recognize what has happened to our children in the last 20 years and how they were poisoned. Let’s stop more autism and let’s take care of the children who already so sick. We need everyones help. Support Congressman Weldon’s bill and stop this charade by assuming that vaccines are safe because the CDC said they are.

By Melissa Dixon

March 20, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

Kids were poisoned by the thousands. The government knows it. There’s an old saying. “Murder will out.” Sooner or later, the truth always comes out, and at long, LONG last, the dam is finally starting to burst on this horrible medical travesty. Future generations will be ashamed and horrified at what has been done to an entire generation of children. David Kirby is a hero. Support the Weldon bill. Demand accountability from our government. Give money to autism advocacy groups such as the HEAL Foundation. Raise hell!

By Mike Dow

March 20, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

I refuse to believe that Julie Gerberding is grossly misinformed which would mean that she is either stupid or evil…or both. Many parents were pleased when Dr. Gerberding announced she was finally going to seperate the vaccine “watchdog” department away from the vaccine “promotion” department of the CDC, only to suck it into her own office where sleeping dogs are allowed to lie. The CDC has too many conflicts of interests and it is time for Dr. Gerberding to go!

By Lucille Willoughby

March 20, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Why do humans think that they can get something for nothing? Or that tinkering with Nature will have no consequences.

I suspect one of the reasons for the high incidences of autism may be the simple fact that our children aren’t dying like they used to. Rubella, measles, polio, whooping cough, typhus, scarlet fever, mumps, smallpox, chicken pox, all of these diseases are either extinct or nowhere near as deadly as they once were. As cruel as it sounds, these diseases took out a percentge of the population that was either naturally weak or otherwise impaired immune systems. Perhaps autism is the price you have to pay for an infant mortality rate that is close to “zero”, not because the vaccines create the condition, but because they all children who would have otherwise died of rubella or mumps to age enough that the condition is noticable. It’s like the spike in Alzheimers—as technology (and not genetics)allows more and more of us to live well into our 90s, if not 100s, we’re seeing more of this disease. Is it simply because there is more Alzheimers, or is it simply we’re no longer dying too young for the disease to manifest itself?

Whatever Man wrests from from one hand, Naure eventually takes back from the other.

By CHARLES A HOOVER

March 20, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

The CDC has for years ignored the pleas of parents from coast to coast begging them to openly and without prejudice investigate the vaccine autism connection. This has not happened. Children vaccination rates will decline and the CDC has no one to blame but themselves.

I’d like to think of this as the “Verstraeten Phenomenon” in honor of the CDC epidemiologist who first identified that there was an autism-vaccine connection but whose data was twisted to hide the truth.

Charlie

By WeWillPrevail

March 20, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer German philosopher (1788 - 1860)

the earth revolves around the sun

the earth is flat

U.S. vaccine ingredients are safe

I think that as soon as we can get through the violently opposed stage…we can move on to healing our children and preventing future harm both in the U.S. and to all those unsuspecting, well-meaning countries around the world that purchase/use our vaccines and follow our vaccine schedule.

By Garbo

March 20, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

What should be done? The people responsible for the cover-up of vaccine damage to infants and children should be rode out of town on a rail, sent to jail, and forced to sell their pharma holdings and donate the proceeds to families affected by autism, that would be a good first step. And the required vaccine schedule should be limited to highly transmissible, deadly public epidemic-type diseases like polio, not lifestyle diseases like Hep B or HPV, or childhood diseases like chickenpox that are largely harmless. And the flu vaccine, which doesn’t really work on either old people or children and this year doesn’t seem to work on anyone at all because the formula doesn’t match the disease, should be abandoned altogether. It’s dangerous and it’s ineffective. All remaining vaccines, whether for children or adults (including deploying soliders) should be made safer by removing dangerous neurotoxic adjuvants like mercury and aluminum. No combinations of vaccines should be given concommitantly unless they have been specifically tested together for unexpected interactions.

By joe harris

March 20, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

The NIH needs to practice what is written on thier building like they once did, when they had integrity.

�The right to search for truth implies also a duty.

One must not conceal any part of what one has recognized to be true.� Albert Einstein (engraved on National Academy of Sciences building in Washington, D.C., location of NIH & IOM)

By Keith

March 20, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

It seems now that through the vaccine court and HHS documentation that public health officals are aware of what has and can happen with a one-size-fits-all multiple vaccine schedule.

If they continue to insist on doing this to the public and more are harmed -

can criminal charges be filed?

By joe harris

March 20, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

Please understand, this massive mercury poisoning is very embarrasing to the medical establishment. The truth is comming out, the jeanie is out of the bottle. There will be no putting it back in.

By Keith

March 20, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Now that the HHS and Vaccine Court documentation has verfied injury and public officals are aware..

if the public health officals at the CDC and Vaccine Advisery boards continue their program of a one-size-fits-all application of multiple vaccines

…where can criminal charges be filed?

By Denial IS Easy

March 20, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Are you “Lingering in Denial”?

Why are US vaccine ingredients toxic poisons on the Material Safety Data Sheets? Why must doctors dispose of them as biological hazards but it is OK to inject them into humans?

Humans don’t have a shortage of thimerosal/mercury or aluminum…

Before you object, do your own research and don’t blindly follow what you are being told by a government that has had some issues with telling the truth…

And by the way, if you continue to believe the CDC, there are several gifts from the government for you - flu shots with mercury and aluminum -can you say Alzheimers and Parkinsons?

By Garbo

March 20, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

The spike in Alzheimers, the spike in ALS, the spike in asthma, the spike in autism, the spike in lupus, the spike in MS, the spike in Crohn’s disease, the spike in deadly food allergies, these are not just coincidental. These autoimmune diseases have similar underlying features. Maybe they are all triggered by environmental causes, whether vaccines or environmental pollutants like lead, mercury and pesticides. Our kids are the proverbial canaries in the coalmine. We may not be able to control with any certainty what’s in the air or water, but we can darn sure control what gets injected into their bodies. Lucille, it’s one thing to say that sick or weak kids would have died of other diseases anyway, but you are ignoring the fact that ALL of these kids are presenting with a very similar array of medical symptoms. It’s not random, they aren’t succumbing to different illnesses — they are all presenting with the same illness. This number of 1 in 150 autistic kids isn’t made up out of thin air, and it didn’t start back in the 60s and 70s when I was young and vaccinated, it started to present as an epidemic in the 1990s when the vaccine schedule was expanded. It’s not a passive coincidence — something is being done TO them to make them sick. All parents want is the truth — the CDC should open their files, including the original data sets of the Verstraeten study and the incidence reports in the VAERS database, to all researchers.

By W. John Martin, MD, PhD.

March 20, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Dear Readers, I have previously presented information that autism is caused by congenital infection with structurally altered viruses that lack the relatively few components targeted by the cellular immune system. Such viruses have been grouped under the generic terms stealth and stealth-adapted.

I have also published findings on brain biopsies showing the marked mitochondrial damage that occurs in stealth adapted virus infected cells. This research has led to a clinical study based on Activation of the "Alternative Cellular Energy (ACE) Pathway as Natural Therapy for Patients with Autism." The initial results have been submitted for publication. I would like to see a more informed effort at educating public health authorities about stealth adapted viruses; some of which presumably arose from earlier batches of simian cytomegalovirus (SCMV)contaminated polio vaccines. Another important topic that came out of the recent clinical trial is the plight of children being born to autistic parents. This issue needs to be addressed by the various autism support groups.

Kind regards, W. John Martin, MD, PhD. Institute of Progressive Medicine, www.s3support.com, s3support@mail.com

By Wilsonny200

March 20, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know if the CDC has been asked for a formal reply to the issues raised in this OpEd? Is anyone out there going to try, I wonder?

By Tim Kasemodel

March 20, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Any drug advertising is required to list its side effects and those who have any underlying disorder which would mean that drug is “not right for you”. Catch any “Abilify” ad for a great example. Vaccines are apparently exempt from this requirement.

The health agencies charged with our protection encourage us to be understandably cautious when taking any oral medication. Yet they expect us to be brainwashed into believing that any injected vaccines are as safe as water, for everybody.

We willingly bring our children, born and unborn, to our trusted doctors for vaccinations to keep them as healthy as possible. I only ask that they show as much concern for conditions that may make any vaccine “not right for this child” as they do for the prevention of childhood disease. The only way to do that is to step back and re-evaluate the childhood vaccines schedule.

Parents around this country are “understandably cautious”. This is not about irrational fear, it is about common sense.

It is time for a little common sense in Atlanta. And time for change.

By cynditk

March 20, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Thanks David Kirby for standing up for justice and speaking for the thousands of parents who wouldn’t otherwise be heard!

By TheProbe

March 20, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Based on my reading of the comments, the children were born with defective genes, as their parents are clearly defective.

What a bunch of morons. Incredible. This country is doomed.

By Sean Brown

March 20, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

God bless David Kirby. This man has stood up for our families and our children for years and we owe him so much. David has brought this nation to the brink of acknowledging a truth that was originally destined to be swept under the rug by our own CDC.

Right now it feels like a warm, sunny, summer day and we’re gathered at the carnival where Julie Gerberding is seated on the wooden platform at the Dunk Tank. Mr. Kirby is on the lawn, warming up his pitching arm and his 110 mile per hour fast ball. Our families have all gathered round underneath a shady tree to watch this spectacle, enjoying our wheat/gluten/dairy/casein/food dye/preservative/sugar free picnics, while we anxiously await Mr. Kirby’s next pitch. You can feel the excitement in the air as our hero glares at the red bullseye painted over the dunk tank’s release arm. Imagine a hush coming over the crowd (one would have to imagine this because, well, our kids are autistic and have no concept of the word hush). The next pitch is due and, as we all know, Mr. Kirby hasn’t missed yet.

Again, David, “Thank You!” With your help we can hopefully recover some of those warm, sunny summer days we’ve lost to autism. Once we do, let’s take the kids to the carnival.

By John Best

March 20, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Nine years ago, the CDC’s Thomas Verstraeten told us that vaccines caused autism. Thanks to that information, some of us are curing our autistic children.

Since we already know the truth, Gerberding should stop trying to hide it and fund treatment for all people with autism today. Autism sucks, let’s get rid of it.

By Kim Stagliano

March 20, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

David, thank you. As the mother of three children with autism, we need your voice. The CDC, AAP and virtually every mainstream doc in America has written off our children as a “genetic anomaly.” Several swear words come to mind, none printable in a family blog. SOMETHING has caused the autism epidemic. CDC darn well better crawl out from under their rock and start turning over rocks. In the meantime, lets keep throwing “rocks” with op-ed pieces like yours. Thank you to the AJC for the bravery to print your piece. NYT? What a joke.

Kim Stagliano Managing Editor: ageofautism.com Huffington Post Blogger kimstagliano.blogspot.com

By Action NOW

March 20, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Remember when Tylenol was poisoned - how fast that company pulled it off the shelves - did a complete recall?

Why can’t the CDC, FDA, NIH, AAP be that ethical? Where is their urgency? Have they forgotten “First, do no harm”?

We need the truth about vaccine safety.

We want the Poling documents released.

We want access to the VSD, the publicly financed Vaccine Safety Datalink database that may answer important questions about vaccines and their relationship to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism.

We want the statute of limitations extended with a look back provision so that hundreds of thousands children harmed by vaccines are allowed access to justice. The current process is illogical.

We want the FDA to answer Congressman Dan Burton’s questions. How much thimerosal is considered a “trace amount” by the FDA and who, if anyone, is testing mercury content in currently licensed vaccines?

We want Congress to hold hearings on why hundreds of thousands of children are suffering with neurodevelopmental disorders in an unprecedented epidemic.

We want the CDC and the FDA held accountable.

Six small steps for humankind. Please.

By Leslie Weed

March 20, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

I am the mother of a beautiful 10 year old daughter who is impaired and silenced, poisoned by the bolus overdose of mercury (before the reduction) via vaccines she received. The United States has been hit with the greatest medical crisis among young children in modern history. We are experiencing a full fledged EPIDEMIC. If autism were contagious the black helicopters would be hovering and the sirens would be sounding! Autism is not from the neck up, these children are sick, they have underlying illnesses, auto-immune diseases, oxidative stress and are neurologically impaired. All the underlying illness and neurological damage these children suffer from point directly to neuro-toxins in the vaccines specifically mercury. To mandate over 30 vaccines on an over crowded vaccine schedule wreaks havoc on our most venerable and is extremely unsafe.

As a parent of a child swept up in this epidemic, I am outraged at the total lack of effort or response from “health” organizations, the CDC, HHS and AAP. Julie Gerberding, leading the CDC (deemed to “protect”) has coldly sat idle in the wake of this horrific tragedy. Ms. Gerberding has turned her back on families and children refusing to investigate the sick children themselves. Gerberding needs to quickly be replaced with someone who will protect our children and champion this cause.

The government agencies try to pacify parents by insanely throwing millions of dollars into genetic research. It is like trying to find a gene for a lung cancer patient, while that person is struggling holding on to life, and offering them no help. We need to treat the illnesses these children have while they are sick, and investigate the root cause which is obviously triggered by toxic environmental exposures. Many children are receiving bio-medical treatment and are recovering. Why isn’t some one looking at these recovered children. It is time for the medical community, pharmaceutical/vaccine manufacturers, and the government agencies to fess up to this atrocity and clean up this toxic mess they have created. The future of our children and this nation depends on it.

Thanks David Kirby, you are a great voice for my daughter.

Leslie Weed HEAL Foundation Healing Every Autistic Life

By joe harris

March 20, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

A simple Google search will net you a wealth of research, that heavy metals and toxins as ingrediants in the vaccines for example: just ethyl-mercury in Parts Per Billion comming in at 32,500 PPB. liquid toxic waste is a wopping 200 PPB it would take a fool to defend 32,500 PPB, and it can cause mitochondria dysfuntion, it would take a fool to dispute this. You see they deplete the glutathion in the mitochondria. we now know, the mechanisim that caused the depletion of our childs glutathion, it was as we thought.”Vaccinations they contain at least four neuro-toxins: mercury, formaldehyde, MSG and aluminum hydroxide. All of which can and have caused mitochondrial disorders ” my son, like thousands of others have Labs proving mercury toxicity” I wish people could understand the synergy effect of the two salts mixed, murcury by it’s self will kill cells, then these bright bunnys added aluminum, they seem to work togather and become super toxins, and the killing factor then becomes x 10 now thanks to China, we can add lead to that. Any one know what three salts mixed, causes in nuron cell death ? reason, some children that are effected start chewing everything, all toys for how long? have contained lead and those children seem to be effected, and are the most damaged now we can factor in a study on testostarone: A Yale School of Medicine study shows for the first time that a high level of testosterone, such as that caused by the use of steroids to increase muscle mass or for replacement therapy, can lead to a catastrophic loss of brain cells. WOW! with all this nuron cell death, it’s a wonder that our kids can even think, Oh! yes thats right some can’t any more. and that’s courtsey of FDA, CDC, AAP, and now the so called prestigious IOM, Seems their sacrificing their good name, for the greater good AKA keeping filthy rich corporations that poison children from paying for the damage done to american children and to the children of the world . .

By ThoJ

March 20, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Having watched Mr. Kirby for some time, I can only say that I will wait to actually read the documents myself and hear the explanations myself. Mr. Kirby’s interepretations have been off in the past. Way off. This piece has far too little substance and far too much of Mr. Kirby’s interpretations.

This page has been linked to by a few of the groups promoting the idea that autism is vaccine injury. It should soon be flooded with similar calls for action.

One side note—it is a laugh-out-loud moment for those of us following this story to see Mr. Kirby scold anyone for mis-statements about how the court works. His own statements on the internet have sewn a a long trail of misinformation.

By Ricci King

March 20, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Many thanks to David Kirby for his courage, vigilance, and journalistic integrity, with regard to writing about the relationship between immunizations and the increase in the cases of autism in the United States. And thanks also to the AJC for printing Mr. Kirby�s editorial.

As Mr. Kirby states, the Poling case is not unusual. In addition to the dozen or more autism related cases that have already been compensated in Vaccine Court, thousands of other families are reporting the same chain of events that led to Hannah�s autism in their own children diagnosed with autism. Mr. Kirby is providing a much needed voice in this matter, as when parents come forward to speak on behalf of their children, they are ridiculed or ignored by the medical community and our government. The CDC, and particularly Dr. Julie Gerberding, has maintained an ambivalence that has led to an unnecessary and preventable explosion of children suffering from autism. It is impossible to calculate the mental, emotional and financial devastation that the rise in autism has caused U.S. families, and our nation as a whole.

To add to the insanity of the matter, parents who sought to do what is best for their children, and followed the vaccine protocol, are labeled �anti-vaccine� when they come forward to describe the events that led to their child developing autism. Are parents supposed to be comforted that there are now only �traces� of mercury reported to be in childhood immunizations, along with aluminum, formaldehyde, ethylene glycol, and a host of other toxins? Is it unreasonable to ask that research into the safety of the vaccine schedule be undertaken, since there is absolutely no research to determine the safety of giving the multiple vaccines that children today are receiving? Why would a new mother, who was instructed throughout her pregnancy to avoid eating fish, due to potential mercury contamination, trust a government who tells her that it is okay to inject her baby with �traces� of mercury?

Our current vaccine schedule is like a science experiment gone bad. We need to admit it, and stop making innocent children sick. But before we do anything, we need to send Julie Gerberding packing.

By Robin Nemeth

March 20, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

It is not just the government officials with the CDC who are guilty. It is the main stream media, which has refused to cover this for at least a decade, on the news, in between pharmaceutical commercials, while more and more children have been destroyed. It is the �philanthropic� organizations like Autism Speaks, which have raised millions of dollars that they�ve used only to fund science that looks at genetics, and to silence anyone who tries to say �thimerosal�. It is the vaccine makers, marketing executives, nurses and doctors and others who are profiting, as we speak, from the administration of thimerosal toxic flu vaccines.

What did Americans think was going to happen when a whole group of people was denied the opportunity to seek redress in a court of law for harm that was done to them, without first going through the no fault �Vaccine Court�?

Money paid in vaccine damage settlements does not come out of vaccine manufacturer profits. It is paid out of a fund created through excise taxes that were levied on the vaccines that poisoned your children. Yes, you, as an American, got to pay to poison your own child, when you paid for those mandated shots. As long as the people who did this are not held accountable, more and more people will be destroyed while the people responsible profit. I would like to see congressional investigations. And then, something on the order of the Nuremburg trials. No fines, please. The guilty parties belong in prison.

Robin Nemeth

By joe harris

March 20, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

this is to ThoJ answer any of my post, are you fool enough to defend 32,500 PPB when 200 PPB is liquid hazardious waste. And must be cleaned up by people in space suites. Maybe they the CDC FDA AAP and IOM think of our children as toxic dumps sites well that day is soon comming to an end do you hear the anger and wisdom comming from these post …

By Sue Swanson

March 21, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

* I sent the letter below to Dr Chip Harbaugh, a spokesperson for the AAP, last week. I have not yet received a response.*

Dear Dr. Harbaugh,

I am sure that you don�t remember me, but my two oldest children were patients of yours nearly 20 years ago at Children�s Medical Group. I saw you the other day on CNN as a spokesperson for the American Academy of Pediatrics talking about the vaccine/autism controversy. I am very interested in this issue, since my youngest child, an adorable 10-year-old boy, has mercury and lead poisoning, immune system dysfunction, many GI problems, and autism. (I wouldn�t be the least bit surprised to find that he also has a mitochondrial disorder, but we haven�t tested that � yet.)

I remember you as a very reasonable person, so I was hoping to hear some words of wisdom from you on vaccine safety. Unfortunately, instead you said quite a few things that are completely untrue, to which I must respond.

1) You stated that �thimerosal has not been used in childhood vaccines since 2001�. Although the CDC recommended that vaccines made after 2001 be mercury-free, there was never a recall on them. Routine scheduled vaccines with thimerosal and an expiration date of 2004 remained in use in doctors� offices. The tetanus and flu vaccines continue to contain thimerosal. In 2006, our pediatrician recommended a tetanus vaccine for my oldest son, so I requested the mercury-free Decavac. Although the pediatrician insisted that they ONLY use mercury-free vaccines in her practice, the nurse �accidentally� brought out a multi-dose vial of tetanus vaccine that was clearly labeled �contains thimerosal�. Obviously, we declined. The CDC is now recommending the mercury-containing flu vaccine for not only infants and pregnant women, but all children up to age 18. This is unconscionable in my opinion, especially because the flu vaccine is of limited effectiveness. Most other vaccines still contain �trace amounts� of mercury, since thimerosal is used in their manufacture and then removed.

2) You stated that �the rise in autism is due to better diagnosis by pediatricians�. My son with autism regressed following his 18 months vaccines, after a long history of ear infections and ever-more-potent antibiotic treatments, just like Hannah Poling. His pediatrician tried to prevent us from seeking a second opinion from a developmental pediatrician, saying that his problems were due to hearing loss from the ear infections. We argued with her �Don�t deaf kids point and otherwise try to communicate?� but we were told that since he was a 5th child, the older children must be communicating for him. I ended up diagnosing his autism myself, by reading the DSM-IV criteria for autism and realizing that my son met EVERY ONE of the items on the list. He was later officially diagnosed by a pediatric neurologist, who spent 5 minutes with him and wrote �Dx: Autism� on her prescription pad. His pediatrician finally admitted �Well, I had only one semester of child development in medical school.� Do you honestly think this type of person has suddenly become able to diagnose previously hidden cases of autism? Today, anyone meeting my son, including the average 5 year old, knows immediately that something is very wrong with his functioning. This is NOT something that would have been missed 10, 15 or 20 years ago. I now have many friends and neighbors with children on the autism spectrum, but my son was the first person with autism I had ever met. There IS an epidemic, and its proportions are frightening.

3) You stated that you have patients �with mitochondrial disease and autistic-like symptoms, but NOT autism�. What definition of autism are you using? Since autism is defined by its behavioral symptoms, it is impossible to have �autistic-like symptoms� without having autism. That would be like saying a child has �ADHD symptoms� but not ADHD. Perhaps your point is that your patients� autism has underlying biomedical causes. Have you considered the hypothesis that ALL autism has underlying biomedical causes? My son doesn�t have autism; he has mercury and lead poisoning, immune system dysfunction, many GI problems, and possibly vaccine-induced mitochondrial disease, resulting in autistic-like symptoms.

When a plane crash occurs, the FAA does not claim �This is an isolated incident. We are sure that all planes are safe.� They say �We will investigate the cause of this crash and determine how we can make flying safer for all.� In the case of a child whose autism was caused by her vaccines, why then do the CDC and AAP claim �This is an isolated incident. We are sure that all vaccines are safe�? These organizations should be saying �We will investigate this case and the thousands of other similar cases to determine how we can make vaccines safer for all.�

Until our government agencies stop lying to us about vaccine safety, my family members will never receive another shot. In the meantime, I will be spending all of my resources trying to treat my son�s vaccine-induced autism, and trying to prevent a similar tragedy from occurring in other children.

Sincerely, Sue Swanson Brett�s mom

By Cindy Keenan

March 21, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

Many thanks to David Kirby and AJC for this editorial. At a time when most journalists prefer to roll over as Gov’t lapdogs, it’s especially important to provide a forum for those brave enough to be true watchdogs. On behalf of our vaccine-injured children, I’m grateful for your journalistic integrity.

By LE

March 21, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

For a different perspective, check out this

By Suzanne

March 21, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Keep running David Kirby’s articles. He’s the only journalist out there doing anything on this important topic, and he’s calling the government on their lies and deceptions on the vaccine/autism link.

By Cole Joplin

March 21, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

As a former resident of Atlanta, I have to say how proud I am of this paper right now. It takes courage to stand up and say something is broken, and we need to fix it. The medical establishment and the CDC are not there yet. The method of vaccination is so core and established, it’s virtually a religion beyond the possibility of abuse. That is very unscientific. Fighting the growing number of affected families is not working. It also appears completely cold and unsympathetic. It should disturb anyone when they see physicians literally fighting to stop autism research. It literally looks like George Wallace in the doorway.

I have news for the doctors reading this: there is a tipping point of shear numbers of people, where your words will be tuned out, and doing nothing about autism is unacceptable. We are are getting closer to that point everyday. What will you do if the autism rate hits 1 in 50, or 1 in 10? We don’t need evangelists to say the problem isn’t there. We need scientists to collect all available evidence, and solve the problem.

By New mom

March 21, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

I wish I had studied vaccines as much as I studied carseats, cribs, strollers, etc. before my son was born. The “general” media dances around the subject. I challenge any AJC reporter (or any reporter at that) to research more, question more and report more. But I also know the media companies get major advertising $ from Big Pharma. So I won’t be surprised if the responsibility continues to fall on journalists like Mr. Kirby.

By CED

March 21, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Nothing in the vaccine business will change until people just stop vaccinating their kids. You can picket, hold up signs, try to fire people at the CDC, try to have laws change. News flash! It’s a big evil for-profit machine that brainwashes decent people. Nothing will change until parents simply educate themselves independently of their doctors and simply refuse these toxins. Don’t wait for permission. Don’t wait until your friend also refuses with you.
Just look at the last 50 years of medicine. Smoking was good for you. Lobotomies were great for mental disorders. Safflower and margerine were good for you. Formula for babies was great. Taking kid’s tonsils out was routine. Vaccines will soon go down in that history, and the machine will come up with something else to screw us up.

By wow

March 21, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

The AJC isn’t standing up for anything. They’re sensationalizing a highly specific case that is NOT generalizable to most cases of autism. The piece by Kirby was an op ed, and Kirby’s claims are tenuous at best. Don’t just believe what Kirby says because it’s what you want to hear. Think for yourself for once!

Also realize that there are plenty of scientists out there studying autism and trying to find better treatments and understand the disease better. It becomes very difficult to do that in the face of the quackery that’s out there, the things that people want to believe despite there being no scientific evidence.

By Kids Doc

March 21, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

From what I can read of his background, David Kirby is an investigative journalist. He is not a science writer. Before he writes an essay attempting to get into the nitty-gritty details of mitochondria and how immunizations may affect mitochondrial function, he should probably have consulted at least a biologist if not an expert on mitochondrial disorders. Based on the information he provides in this opinion piece, he shows no understanding of how mitochondria function. Along with the ID tag indicating Kirby’s background, there should probably be a disclaimer reminding readers that not only is he an investigative journalist, he has no scientific background. And people on the fence should pay close attention to the fact that he has written a book on this subject, and increased interest in this issue equals increased book sales equals David Kirby making money off of his wild claims and fearmongering. Now Kirby wants every infant tested for mitochondrial diseases before vaccines are given. If that was as easy, inexpensive, and high-yield as the routine newborn screening that is done in the hospital, it would already be part of the screening panel. But it isn’t. Mitochondrial diseases, as well as immunosuppressive diseases, are rare and extremely difficult to diagnosis, which is why children suspected of these diagnoses eventually end up being evaluated by specialists. And for parents who balk at seeing their small, fragile infants receiving injections, consider having numerous vials of relatively large quantities of blood drawn from their small, fragile veins to test for a disorder that is not common enough to screen for. In response to Kirby’s claim that vaccine stimulation of Hannah Poling’s immune system caused her current neurological status, this is the same individual who has previously claimed that thimerosal in vaccines weakens the immune system and the weakened immune system results in autism. “Gerberding was either grossly misinformed, or lying.” As others have pointed out elsewhere, this comment could just as easily, and more appropriately, be applied to Mr. Kirby. For Generation Rescue, SafeMinds, and other organizations and individuals who are urging parents to forgo immunization, here’s the Pepsi challenge. Put your money down and offer to reimburse the full medical and therapeutic costs accrued by any family whose child is affected by a vaccine-preventable illness. Mumps-related deafness, pertussis-related anoxia, polio-related paralysis, measles-related encephalopathy, Hib and pneumococcal meningitis, all are waiting to strike children when immunization rates to go down low enough. We saw one unimmunized child end up hospitalized in the recent San Diego measles outbreak, and thanks to the anti-vaccine propagandists, the real tragedy may just be beginning.

By AutismNewsBeat

March 21, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

To Sue Swanson,

If you are familiar with the DSM-IV criteria for autism, as you say you are, then you should know that a child can present with some autistic symptoms, but not enough to qualify for a clinical diagnosis. Overlapping symptoms are nothing new. A person with a closed head injury, for example, can present with autistic-like symptoms. Acid reflux can be a symptom of indigestion or cancer. My left leg just went to sleep - does that mean I have a spinal cord injury?

By Ginger Taylor

March 21, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Thank you to the AJC for presenting a forum for openly questioning what is going on with the vaccine program.

We have gone way past the point of balance with vaccines. Too many, too close together, given to early, in combinations that have never been safety tested to kids with out screening them to see if their immune systems can handle the burden.

Parents are now at the point of screaming to the CDC, “Stop! Look at our kids! You are hurting them!” But the CDC arrogantly hears nothing and continues to add more vaccines.

Time for some common sense questions.

When I didn’t have Hepatitis of any kind, did my now autistic son really need three doses of the Hepatitis B vaccine before he was 18 months old? Did he really need the second and third shots after the first one gave him fevers, uncontrollable crying and GI problems? He is not at risk for sexually transmitted diseases and he is not an IV drug user, so why does he need it all all until he is old enough to even have sex?

Polio was eradicated from the US in 1979, did my baby really need three doses of the polio vaccine before he was 18 months old?

I understand that around 90% of kids vaccinated gain the immunity the first time they get a shot. Why am I not given the option of testing to see if he even needs more than one done of a vaccine?

There is no medicine (or even food for that matter) that is safe for everyone, but US vaccine policy has decided that they will just ignore that truth and prescribe the exact same medical regimen for vaccinations for every child, knowing full well that some will be permanently injured and a few will even die from it? (Check the injuries covered under the vaccine injury compensation program, one of them is ‘death’)

If the CDC, HHS and AAP have so little regard for the well being of my son as to blanket him with viruses and toxic additives with out checking to see if he might be at greater risk from the vaccines than from the actual diseases, then why in the world should I have any regaurd for them?

By Holly

March 21, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

I’ll never trust the CDC or AAP ever again. I thought once the DPT was changed to the DPaT, vaccines were safe. Then I learned Oral Polio was being replaced with Inactivated Polio vaccine to prevent SV40 contamination giving kids brain cancer. I thought in 1999 the mercury was removed from the vaccine but that was just a suggestion. Then in 2001 my daughter has (8) seizures from the 7 shots she received at her 4 month well baby visit. Only then did I learn there were manufacturing problems at Wyeth’s PREVNAR plant. Our life has been holy hell since my daughter’s seizures and autism. My unvaccinated baby at 5 years old now has never had a sick visit. Go Figure.

By Genius

March 21, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

As usual David Kirby brings up several good points and as usual we are treated to fear mongering hysteria and name calling like this- “We saw one unimmunized child end up hospitalized in the recent San Diego measles outbreak, and thanks to the anti-vaccine propagandists, the real tragedy may just be beginning.’”

Surrounded by God knows how many thousands of developmentally delayed and autistic children and the anti vaccine safety people expect everybody to get teary eyed about one child being hospitalized.

Vaccine safety would be a top priority at the CDC if it was functioning properly and the article correctly points out that it is not. Parents should be concerned and informed. If vaccination rates fall it will because vaccine producers and our government failed to provide a safe product-forced it on millions and then lied their asses off to avoid responsibility for the damage they are responsible for. Blame will lie directly with them and their apologists. Gerberding must go. Vaccines cause autism.

By Ginger Taylor

March 21, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Kids Doc,

Take a minute and read your post again, this time from the point of view of a parent.

Can you see how obvious it is to me, parent reading your post, that your priority is the eradication of a specific disease even it if comes at the expense of my individual child?

Can you see how ridiculous it is to a parent that you should argue to them that they should vaccinate their child, even if they believe it will harm their child, because that is what is best for everyone else’s children? “Put your baby at risk for permanent brain damage for the good of society!”

Do you really think that any responsible parent who cares a whit about their child will say, why yes! I think vaccines may cause autism, but if my child having to be institutionalized will save just one child from getting chicken pox, then it will all be worth it!”

I have said this before and i will say it again… my child is not an acceptable loss in your war against communicable diseases.

He is not a soldier, he is a baby. His right to be free of toxins that cause brain damage does not go away because we are worried that one kid in San Diego had to go to the hospital.

And one more tip, telling thousands and thousands of parents of children with severe, life long, neurological disorders that they should continue to vaccinate and encourage others to do it, because ONE child in San Diego went to the hospital with measles, and made a full recovery, is an insult that you don’t seem to comprehend. You are basically saying, “to heck with your weak children, our strong children might get sick”.

Not to mention the fact that you have judged Kirby with out reading his book (he has ongoing relationships with many medical professionals that he consults) and have declared only medical professionals are allowed to attempt to understand and make assertions about biological processes?

Do you see the arrogance in your message to parents like me?

Do you really think talking to parents like this is going to earn their trust and earn you more patients and win more people to vaccination?

Wait… one more thing. Go to pubmed, type in “thimerosal” and “mitochondria” and read the first couple of studies that come up. You will note that thimerosal causes mitochondrial dysfunction. Perhaps you should do a little more reading up on things before criticizing David Kirby.

By Kari Nelson

March 21, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Kudos to David Kirby for telling it like it is!! As a parent of a vaccine injured child,I know the heartbreak of losing your child in the mercury fog. For those of you that have not been there,you are lucky! All we want is the truth!!

Kari Nelson

By UndertheRadar

March 21, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Wilsonny200 writes:

“Does anyone know if the CDC has been asked for a formal reply to the issues raised in this OpEd? Is anyone out there going to try, I wonder?”

Question 1: In the Works.

Question 2: Yes.

The CDC will be held accountable for their reckless remarks and lack of transparency on this issue….this is just the beginning.

By Theresa Wrangham

March 21, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

To Kids Doc,

FYI, SafeMinds doesn’t advocate for parents to forego immunization. SafeMinds advocates the use of mercury-free immunizations that are now available in ample supple and live up to the promise made 8 years ago by Federal agencies to use mercury-free vaccines in place of mercury containing vaccines. Political machinations keep that promise from being fulfilled, not shortages.

Vaccine induced autism just became a publicly documented reality for this nation and there is nowhere to run. There is no excuse for mercury’s continued use in our vaccine supply, and no reason to continue to expose our children to this dangerous neurotoxin.

The grave conflicts of interest that continue within CDC on the matter must also be resolved to restore confidence in the nation’s immunization program. One has only to read the transcripts from the Simpsonwood retreat to understand that a cover-up took place in the reporting of no-link and that there are vested interests involved in continuing that mantra. As far as fear mongering goes, Doc, you should perhaps refer to the CDC�s risk communication plan, which acknowledges that they have no problem in fear mongering to increase uptake of immunization before casting your stone at Mr. Kirby.

Additionally, please do not suppose that the costs associated with caring for autistic individuals is meaningless and of any less concern than the ones you have troubled to outline in your Pepsi challenge. Harvard studies would indicate otherwise, so perhaps you also need to be willing to take the Pepsi challenge � that price tag is about $3 million per child.

By the way, it is also reasonable to ask for testing of the vaccine schedule � it�s never been done. Yet parents who believe that testing is a good idea vs. letting their child be a guinea pig for OJT science are called unreasonable (that�s being kind, the name calling is usually worse); that is “Priceless”. Acknowledgement that a one size fits all approach is not in the best interest of our children, is also reasonable.

While herd immunity is endlessly spouted, I say, my child is not a lamb to be led to the slaughter, or a guinea pig for science. She is an individual deserving of respect and choice in medical treatment. Where she has been unnecessarily injured by medical treatment, she is entitled to reparation. Where thousands have been injured, policy must change to prevent future unnecessary injury. Until that happens, the immunization program will continue to suffer from parents, for a variety of reasons, opting out.

Maybe the CDC needs to work on their image problems, because the strategy of forcing us to immunize really isn�t working out. So perhaps some honesty and common sense should be considered, as trust is earned, not coerced.

Mr. Kirby raises valid points and is to be applauded for giving our community a much needed voice in this process. My family is grateful.

By Kids Doc

March 21, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Genius, If you are what you say you are, you might be aware that Kirby’s piece was an opinion, not an “article”. Separate sections of the newspaper. An article reports news, an opinion provides a writer’s opinion. Unfortunately the AJC chose to publish a misinformed and dangerous opinion piece. In other news which I am sure will be taken as evidence of the vast governmental-medical conspiracy, the CDC did actually send out an alert on an increased incidence of seizures with Proquad, and then advised that children receive MMR and Varivax separately so as to minimize the risk of seizures. I don’t believe any physicians honestly and truly believe or state that vaccines are 100% safe and/or effective. But they have a pretty darn good track record when you look at infectious disease morbidity and mortality. Ginger Taylor, answers to your questions. Your infant may have been at risk for Hep B from IV drug use or sexual transmission, but he was at risk for transmission from being bitten by an infected child (or adult, for that matter), or from receiving a contaminated blood transfusion in the event that he required blood due to accident or surgery (you do believe that surgery is effective and that people who are bleeding out from accidents should receive transfusions?) Polio was eradicated from the United States, but we see large numbers of immigrants arrive in our country from places in the world where they are not fortunate to have been vaccinated against polio (or have refused vaccination thanks to paranoid fearmongers in their societies). The idea is that until polio is eradicated worldwide a la smallpox, it’s a good idea to eliminate the chance that your child will be affected. You actually do have the right to request that your child’s antibody titers be tested after the first immunization, or any subsequent immunization. Physicians who see children adopted from other countries do that routinely to make sure that the immunizations these children are recorded as having received were actually effective. And then you can retest your child’s antibody titers at regular intervals to make sure that he/she maintains that immunity. Keep in mind that these are blood tests, not stool or hair samples, so you’d be bringing your child in for blood draws every so often, which I’m sure they’ll appreciate (although you’ll be valiantly saving them from the horrors of being “lost to autism”. Cool, I just noted that Genius refers to people who support immunization programs as anti vaccine safety! Sorry, I hate to tell you that people who promote and provide vaccinations are anything but anti vaccine safety. Wake up and welcome to the real world.

By wow

March 21, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Along with Kids Doc’s comment, if your child is unvaccinated, be careful where you travel. I believe measles is still endemic in many parts of Europe, and Polio has been on the rise in many locations as well. Also keep in mind that if your unvaccinated child does catch one of those disease, they could spread it to infants that would be vaccinated (but aren’t old enough yet). So while your kid may survive whatever they picked up just fine, it’s possible, maybe even likely, that infant won’t. And YOU become responsible for that infant’s disease/death.

By Jeff Stone

March 21, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

This debate about vaccines and their impact on autism rates will not end until a vaccinated vs. unvaccinated study(s)is done. The CDC has said it’s not possible. Generation Rescue did a simple one without any problem. Nothing is going to change with the current HHS and CDC appointees at the helm. I hope that the next administration either convinces Congressman Dave Weldon to become head of HHS or allows him to vet the nominees. Then the study would be underway by next year at this time.

By Tim Kasemodel

March 21, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Kids Doc,

I am not sure how our advocating a re-evaluation of how the vaccine schedule is implemented (timing, single vs. multiple, one size fits all, etc.) and eliminating exposure to neurotoxins could be such a provocative issue, or a threat to the immunization program.

Stating vaccines have a “darn good track record” is interesting considering that the VAERS could be seen as unreliable. My own son had a reportable reaction to DTaP that we reported to our Pediatrician (recorded in his file) but were discounted and went unreported to VEARS.

You say David Kirby wrote a “misinformed and dangerous opinion piece”.

Rather than go on long diatribe about how important vaccines are (Mr. Kirby has never advocated they are not) please address specifically what you deem to be incorrect or dangerous about his opinion?

If you want to show Ginger Taylor that you are not arrogant and me that you can have a reasonble discussion, bring forward any facts that support your assertions that Mr. Kirby’s OpEd is misinforming and dangerous.

I realize you are not obligated, but no reply would be very telling.

By Alison

March 21, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

There are 9-12 possible other autism/vaccine-related concessions. We need the Poling documents released. We need access to the Vaccine Safety Datalink. We need congressional hearings on why this epidemic has been allowed to rage on. We need the CDC and FDA to be held accountable. We need the statute of limitations extended in the Federal Vaccine Court with a look back so that all injured children have a right to make claims and seek justice.

By genius

March 21, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Kids Doc writes. “Kirby�s piece was an opinion, not an �article�.”

Word mincing like that is not going to sway anyone’s opinion and represents childish debate tactics. You don’t have to be a genius to know most “articles” in the press are opinion whether they are labeled as such or not. My use of the term “anti safety crowd” is for adults with a sense of humor. It points out how absurd statements like “anti-vaccine propagandists” are. I see similar labels commonly used to diminish and distort vaccine safety advocates positions. It figures you wouldn’t get it. Nothing in your post changes a single solitary thing regarding the failures of vaccine producers and our government to properly test, make, and administer vaccines. Kirby’s article points them out nicely. And if you a kids doc you should know it.

By genius

March 21, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Kids Doc writes. “Kirby�s piece was an opinion, not an �article�.”

By Skeptic

March 21, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Several studies involving tens or hundreds of thousands of children have been done, in several countries, and all came to the same conclusion: there is no vaccine-autism correlation. None. Absolutely zero.

This is an incredibly specific case, involving an extremely rare, preexisting, GENETIC condition. Are vaccines 100% safe for everyone? Sadly they are not. Is it worth taking on that small risk to avoid exposure to some of the most dangerous diseases of all time? Yes!

Scientists all over the world have concluded that vaccines have nothing to do with autism. Why are you all belaboring the point?

By Genius

March 21, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Kids Doc writes. “Kirby�s piece was an opinion, not an �article�.”

By Beverly Barton

March 21, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

There’s no link. There’s no link. There’s no link. End of (non) story.

By wow

March 21, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

@ Tim Kasemodel: For starters, in the Poling case, the concession was not that the vaccines caused autism. The concession was that the vaccines cause fever (a widely known side effect) that aggravated an underlying disorder, resulting in autistic symptoms. It is just as likely that the next time she had an ear infection or strep throat or a stomach bug that caused a fever, the same thing would have happened. However, this kind of thing obviously can’t be directly tested in humans.

Secondly, Kirby advocates testing for this type of defect. There is no simple, minimally invasive test. The testing undergone by the Poling girl involved MRIs, muscle biopsies, etc. It is unreasonable to even suggest screening for such a defect. If there were a simple blood test available, perhaps.

Kirby suggests testing or altering the vaccine schedule and suggests that this “would reduce the rate of autism, seizure disorders and even asthma in some children.” There is no evidence to suggest this or even any theoretical model explaining why this would occur.

There is no medical or scientific difference between “dysfunction” and “disorder”. This is semantics.

There is no evidence the Poling girl’s mitochondrial dysfunction was or was not environmentally acquired.

Kirby says, “But the government has acknowledged that low cellular energy can increase the risk of immune system overdrive, and regression into autism.” First of all, I’d like a reference for that (and no I don’t normally expect op-ed pieces to be referenced). However, biologically, it’s more likely that low cellular energy would inhibit the ability of the immune system to function, as a large amount of energy is required for an immune response.

Kirby says, “But did Hannah have a “normal” immune system? Are other kids out there also metabolically primed for overstimulation from too many shots at once? Should their vaccines be spread out?” There’s no way to test for any of these things. And if a child is immunocompromised, they are not going to fare well when they encounter any type of pathogen.

And those are just the things that stood out on first glance. I’m sure I can give you more.

By wow

March 21, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Yea Beverly! A nice, concise explanation if I’ve ever seen one!!! :)

By Another ASD mom

March 21, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Thank you Mr Kirby for continuing the exposure of the danger of vaccines. What I find interesting is if vaccines were so safe - why would there be an Omnibus Hearing or Vaccines Injury Compensation Fund (another tax on tax payers - no fault to pharma.)

Vaccines SHOULD be safe. The public should demand more safety studies. Children deserve the safest products.

My child was not so lucky. He is not one of the few. He is one of the many.

By Sandy Gottstein

March 21, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Thank you David for always being willing and able to tell it like it is.

And the ethics of mandatory vaccines? As I once said in a speech, “Public Health will say that these vaccines must be mandatory or these diseases will spread. But if the vaccines work, anyone choosing them will be protected. If they don�t prevent the spread of the disease to the vaccinated, what is the point? It hardly seems right that those who don�t want to be vaccinated should be required to be vaccinated, because vaccines don�t always work.

And to whatever extent vaccines are being required because the �immune suppressed� cannot be vaccinated, and are more vulnerable to the adverse effects of disease, while my heart goes out to such people, they are not more important than children who are harmed by vaccines. Nor should the notion that vaccination may in itself be creating immune suppression be left out of this equation.

Besides there is documented proof of outbreaks in 100% vaccinated populations. Now, whose fault is that?

I also consider any notion f “public health” to be suspect, which sacrifices the individual to some alleged higher goal. Many of us find it way scarier that the state would sacrifice children to someone’s idea of the common good, than to take our chances with Mother Nature. Who decides? What’s the right number? Who’s counting? Even in wartime, the draft of adults is only used very judiciously and sparingly. We also go to considerable effort to avoid enemy civilian casualties. Yet we seem to think nothing of sacrificing our own innocent children.

The bottom line? We need good information, we need a choice, and we need it now. If we had such a choice, the vaccine manufacturers just might improve their products. Why, on earth, do they need to improve them now, when we are required to have their vaccines, and they are not accountable for the outcome?” (To read the entire speech go to http://www.vaccinationnews.com/dailynews/february2002/bartlettdemospeech.htm)

I also wrote two Scandals columns that may be of interest to those of you concerned about the “common good” argument and the notion that some children should be sacrificed to promote it. They are: “On cheating ‘the other guy’” at http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/2008/Feb1808/Scandal86.htm and “Forced Vaccinations - Musings on what the road to Hell is paved with” at http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/2007/Nov2107/Scandal83.htm.

All the best, Sandy Gottstein, President, Vaccination News, A Non-Profit Corporation (www.vaccinationnews.org - “Your source for all sides of the vaccination controversy) and author of the column Scandals. Note that I do not have a vaccine-injured child.

By joe harris

March 21, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

This is for my kids doc see if you can answer to this:heavy metals and toxins as ingrediants in the vaccines for example: just ethyl-mercury in Parts Per Billion comming in at 32,500 PPB. liquid toxic waste is a wopping 200 PPB it would take a fool to defend 32,500 PPB, and it can cause mitochondria dysfuntion, it would take a fool to dispute this. You see they deplete the glutathion in the mitochondria. we now know, the mechanisim that caused the depletion of our childs glutathion, it was as we thought.�Vaccinations they contain at least four neuro-toxins: mercury, formaldehyde, MSG and aluminum hydroxide. All of which can and have caused mitochondrial disorders � my son, like thousands of others have Labs proving mercury toxicity. Do yoy honestly want to defend vaccines containing these poisons? And just in case you pull that old the poison is in the dose card. I have you covered, you see DR.Hillaman took care of that, from Merk. In his letter to management he said that on the next vacc. schedule the children would be getting 87 times what the EPA allowable daily safe amount, then he said something you should know, very profound and disturbing. That were not talking daily allowance were talking about bolus doses all at once, when veiwed in this manner it does appear rather a large dose. You see at simpsonwood retreat they were afraid they may have hurt children, at 62.5 micrograms of ethyl-mercury there is a 2.48 times risk of recieving autism, add, adhd, and speech delay, now you calculate 162.5 micro grams in one day what would the risk be then ? and that my freind is just mercury, You see some children were given 7 vaccines containing thimerosal in one day “AKA” BOLUS DOSES

By Deborah

March 21, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

I have said this many times before but the so-called autism groups still don’t do anything about it. Mercury is ONLY 1 toxin in vaccines. Addressing one toxin at a time is not going to improve the safety or effectiveness of the vaccines. The only way to make vaccines safe (if it’s even possible) is:

Separate ALL vaccines

Put all doses in single dose vials in order to remove the need for preservatives (the toxins)

Do NOT begin vaccinations until the age of 3.

Remove the need for unnecessary vaccines (chicken pox, Hep B at birth, etc etc)

UNTIL all four of these steps are taken nothing will change.

As for me and mine even IF these suggestions were followed we still would not resume vaccinations. We have no trust in the government or the drug cartels anymore. The damage is not fixable.

By Rainmom

March 21, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

To KidsDoc: It’s almost laughable how you insult Kirby and imply he needs to take biology classes. If you are a doctor, put down your industry supplied prozac pen, step away from your eli lilly notepad and mozy on over to pubmed. Try a few searches using the word mitochondrial plus either thimerosal or merthiolate or mercury. it’s kinda a no brainer, but when our medical society if trained by pharmaceutical industry, it’s no wonder you are so confused. Kirby has done his homework, you have not. The recent study in Canada showed that ASTHMA was reduced 50% by merely delaying vaccines by a couple months. Do pediatricians ever read scientific (not epidemiology) studies? You can play with numbers, you can make all kinds of graphs, you can change the data sets, but at the end of the day, when you sit down and look at laboratory tests, you have to lie to get around them. Porphyrin testing and Lactate- pyruvate ratios don’t lie- our “autistic-like” kids got jacked full of mercury. Back to the research library for you!!

By David Gorski

March 21, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Deborah appears to be parroting some rather toxic myths about vaccines (as in “oh my God, vaccines are loaded with…toxins!”), which I discussed here on the Science-Based Medicine blog:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=9

By Christine

March 21, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Yes, vaccines SHOULD be safe. Why is it then, that vaccines are not evaluated for the potential to cause carcinogenicity, genotoxicity, mutagenicity,and the potential to impair fertility? Statements to such effect can be found on almost all vaccine package inserts and product monographs.

By "joe harris" = fool

March 21, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

“Vaccinations they contain at least four neuro-toxins: mercury, formaldehyde, MSG and aluminum hydroxide.”

MSG is a neurotoxin? And the active ingredient in deodorant? That explains why people who eat Chinese food and use Right-Guard also all end up with autism. Give me a break. I would also point out that there is a serious difference between methyl mercury, which is quite toxic, and ethyl mercury, which thimerosal contains, which naturally clears from the body within a few weeks. Oh yeah, and I would mention all the studies and the billion plus people who received the exact same vaccine schedule but haven’t had any negative effects. You are wrong, and your beliefs have no backing in science whatsoever.

Deborah: For many issues, I would just say “fine, do what you think is right.” However, by failing to vaccinate your children, you place mine at risk of contacting these diseases. Do you want to return to an era where everyone lived in permanent fear of polio, measles, and diptheria? Where public parks and swimming pools were closed routinely, and pretty much everyone caught all these diseases, and just hoped they got better? That is unacceptable from a public health standpoint. Honestly, even if vaccines killed outright 1% of everyone who received them it would be worth it to prevent the illness of everyone else. Only because vaccination has been so successful can you even harbor these crazy ideas that you are going to “opt out” — otherwise you would be too worried about keeping your children from dying, as so many did.

By wow

March 21, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Rainmom, If you’re referring to the McDonald et al study in the March Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, how is that study scientific and not epidemiological?

By Teresa Binstock

March 21, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

In a primate study comparing ethylmercury (as found in thimerosal) with methylmercury, Burbacher et al, who found that “A higher percentage of the total Hg in the brain was in the form of inorganic Hg for the thimerosal-exposed monkeys… This study is free online text to be linked and reinforces the findings that much inter-individual variation occurs in humans’ ability to detoxify. The injected thimerosal and aluminum that many children detoxify may well be toxic for a subgroup.

By Elaine

March 21, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

I wanted to add my 2 cents since the comments seem to be so overwhelmingly anti-vaccine. Sure, vaccines should be as safe as possible. But, as of now, they’re still safer than the diseases they prevent. Measles, whooping cough, these things can kill. If you go on the WHO web page about measles, you’ll see that 242,000 people died in 2006 of measles. This stuff is very contagious, and it’s going to run rampant in the community if people start eschewing vaccinations. It’s already happening in England because of the MMR shot scare. Lots of kids get killed in car accidents every year, but I don’t see people calling for the end of automobiles.

By Ann Brasher

March 21, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

If we had been heard in 1999. If the recall of thimerosal had been mandatory. If, if, if…… We (those living with the effects of vaccine damaged children) are being blamed for damaging the vaccine program. WRONG ! The CDC ignoring the 1000’s and 1000’s of similar stories and spending money on PR spin rather using good common sense has lead to the loss of a generation of children. God help those who knew…..and did nothing.

By Janet

March 21, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Thimerosal’s component ethylmercury DOES NOT clear naturally from the body in a few weeks. While ethylmercury may clear from the blood fairly quickly, it is lipophilic and moves to fatty tissues and organs, including the brain. Thomas Burbacher’s study has more information on this: http://www.ehponline.org/members/2005/7712/7712.html

By Sandy Gottstein

March 21, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Elaine, First, vaccines can kill as well. If you go to VAERS, you will see hundreds of vaccine-associated deaths. These deaths may be but a small fraction of the actual deaths, at least according to the FDA and a vaccine manufacturer who between them said reported SERIOUS reactions are 1-2%. Until and unless studies of never-vaccinated vs. vaccinated children are conducted,we will never know whether vaccines or diseases kill or maim more, and whether the risks of vaccines outweigh their benefits. As for all those measles deaths, they occur in developing nations where people are malnourished and suffer from poor living conditions. We should not compare ourselves to them - see http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/April1902/Scandals13.htm. Also, I recently wrote a column called “The Power of Fear” which I think is very relevant to your points at http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/2008/Feb1108/Scandal85.htm. All the best, Sandy Gottstein, www.vaccinationnews.org

By Genius

March 21, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

I get a hellish laugh when I see David Gorski(quack) mention science based medicine in reference to vaccine safety. Science based medicine would completely exclude the use of mercury in vaccinations. If science based medicine were applied to vaccination manufacturing requirements and to alter the current vaccination schedule there wouldn’t be an epidemic of developmental disabilities in children and hence no debate.

And this statement from By “joe harris” = fool -“I would also point out that there is a serious difference between methyl mercury, which is quite toxic, and ethyl mercury, which thimerosal contains, which naturally clears from the body within a few weeks.” doesn’t really say ethyl mercury is safe does it.

That’s because ethyl mercury is a very dangerous substance all on it’s own and only the truly ignorant or disingenuous would suggest otherwise. Perhaps you would like to add to your post that ethyl mercury is harmless and is actually good for people to inject into their infants but I’m pretty sure “evidence based medicine’ would not support that assertion The fact that vaccines cause developmental disabilities and autism is out of the bag guys. You going to have to look to your bosses for some new spin. Perhaps I can help, what about- “autism is good for you”, try that.

By Genius

March 21, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

By Genius

March 21, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

By Kids Doc

March 21, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

To Ginger Taylor: with all due respect, and despite the full frontal assault you launched on me, I do not consider the children I treat to be soldiers and expendable casualties in the eradication of infectious diseases. I recommend vaccination to parents because I have seen the effects of vaccine-preventable disease and I do not want the families I care for to suffer those same effects. I have a strong interest in the causes and the care for and treatment of children with autism and I try to understand the hardship that families go through when taking care of these children; I know I can’t really understand it unless I were to experience it every day myself. Honestly, given the weight of the scientific evidence there is no causative correlation between vaccines and autism. That is what I tell parents when they ask; that is why I was comfortable having my own child vaccinated. I am perfectly happy to collaborate with individual parents on modified vaccination schedules if they understand the risks and benefits involved. I worry about parents who see celebrities on talk shows blame vaccines and google websites full of misinformation.

And I am challenged to “bring forward any facts that support your assertions that Mr. Kirby�s OpEd is misinforming and dangerous.”

To the casual reader, especially the expectant parent or parent of a young child, his OpEd is misinforming AND dangerous…

Actually, “By wow” in one of his above comments did a nice job pointing out the flaws and inaccuracies, but allow me to add some more points.

Some people who read an op-ed assume that the writer is an expert regarding the issue on which he is writing. They may respect what he writes and take an expressed belief as an expert opinion or recommendation. As in:

“And I believe doing so would reduce the rate of autism, seizure disorders and even asthma in some children.”

Offering false hope with no evidence to support this “belief”. Playing into parents’ inherent fears that their children will suffer chronic, disabling illnesses

“That’s because Hannah’s underlying condition was asymptomatic and most likely environmentally acquired. It was not some rare, grave, inherited disease that would have progressed to autism anyway, as many officials contend.”

False. Her mother reportedly tested positive for the same genetic mitochondrial defect. Thus it was not environmentally acquired; it was actually a rare, grave, inherited disease. And the medical reality is that with a mitochondrial defect any febrile illness could result in excessive energy demands, cause neurological damage and lead to autistic symptoms and a seizure disorder. There are children who have suffered the same scenario with pneumococcal and Hib meningitis, for example. And I believe that mitochondrial disorders websites address the issue of vaccination versus leaving affected children susceptible to the infections themselves.

“But did Hannah have a “normal” immune system? Are other kids out there also metabolically primed for overstimulation from too many shots at once? Should their vaccines be spread out?”

The questions sound reasonable, but parents who delay or refuse vaccines leave their children exposed to infectious diseases we might otherwise prevent. We only need to look back in our own history or look at other countries where children are severely affected or dying of vaccine -preventable diseases. This is not fearmongering, this is reality.

“Porphyrin testing and Lactate- pyruvate ratios don�t lie- our �autistic-like� kids got jacked full of mercury. “

These tests don’t lie; they don’t mean anything.

By Patrick

March 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Folks who are supportive of Mr Kirby,

Why haven’t your medical/research ‘professionals’ gotten off of their profiteering keesters far enough to accomplish studies that would be acceptable by the peer reviewed journals?

Haven’t they taken enough of your hard earned wages to do this?

I too wish to support ethical science and review of a host of things they have plain old ‘grandfathered’ in as safe that may not really be, but the ‘professionals’ who are supposed to have the expertise to do this aren’t? Why? Because they want to keep stringing along the parents for a non-existant cure? Charts and numbers that are validated, not testimonials based on recovery that is a mirror of normal development, see?

Get the drift, it might not just be the government who is scamming your tax dollars away, but the profiteer$ that are being supported by all of the non-proven, experimental techniques that our insurance ‘vampires’ don’t want to pay for either.

By stopthis!!!

March 21, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

I learned of this diaster a few months back, I am appalled at the cover up and lack of concern for our children!!! For whatever the reason is, that thimerosal can discriminate against innocent children, that to me is a huge red flag!!! Do some research, for God’s sake, it could be so something so simple, that would stop this inexcusable and blatant attack on our children or better yet, JUST GET RID OF THIMEROSAL AND ALUMINUM AND FORMALDYHYDE, AS WELL AS ALL NEUROTOXINS AS PRESERVATIVES, PLEASE MAKE VACCINES SAFE FOR ALL!!!

By wow

March 21, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

I like the way I’m being ignored. Darn voice of reason. (And Kids doc, I’m female, just for the record.)

By Kids Doc

March 21, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

“Porphyrin testing and Lactate- pyruvate ratios don�t lie- our �autistic-like� kids got jacked full of mercury.”

Don’t lie; just don’t mean anything…to a medical professional who’s not getting paid to do the testing and then paid to “treat” the magically revealed mercury-jacking, that is.

By Teresa Binstock

March 21, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

By Sam Centipedro

March 21, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

How many kids must be damaged or killed by preventable diseases because sheep-like idiots have bought scare-mongering nonsense about vaccines? One stupid article about one self-publicist and the fools start bleating!

So please stop your stupid lying and parroting of nonsense: vaccines do not cause autism. Quacks, frauds and liars do not have the solution; it’s the medical professionals who really care for your children, not the exploitative monsters who sell you their books of filth and quack remedies (chelation, my foot!).

By Elaine

March 21, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Sandy not everyone in the USA and other developed countries lives in middle-class luxury. There are lots of poor and malnourished people right here in the good old USA. Also, VAERS is not a reliable source of unbiased data. It was never intended to be used to draw conclusions about anything.

By Do'C

March 21, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

“In a primate study comparing ethylmercury (as found in thimerosal) with methylmercury, Burbacher et al, who found that �A higher percentage of the total Hg in the brain was in the form of inorganic Hg for the thimerosal-exposed monkeys� This study is free online text to be linked and reinforces the findings that much inter-individual variation occurs in humans� ability to detoxify. The injected thimerosal and aluminum that many children detoxify may well be toxic for a subgroup.”

This study say absolutely nothing about autism. Nothing. Autism is not mercury poisoning - even David Kirby seems to be starting to get that.

By genius

March 21, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

From KidsDoc -Don�t lie; just don�t mean anything�to a medical professional who�s not getting paid to do the testing and then paid to �treat� the magically revealed mercury-jacking, that is.

The list of MD’S AND PHD’S that disagree with you is longer than the number of checks you’ve cashed from pharmaceutical companies to push their products.

You kind of let the cat out of the bag on your agenda here as if people here couldn’t tell. Only your tests are “real” right? Now, show me that scientific study that proves injecting ethyl mercury into infants is safe and I’ll show you some junk science.

By freehand

March 21, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

I see comments from a Doctor Martin above. Here’s a website with commentary on his research: http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/Johnmartin.html

If you folks are wrong about the cause of autism, you do your children no good.

Generally, doctors care very much about their patients. Give me a competent doctor any day over a desperate relative. *Feeling more strongly does not make one more likely to be right.

By Janet

March 21, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Mercury, whether it is ethyl or methyl, can be damaging to neurons. Some children may be born with a greater body burden of mercury, if their mothers had mercury-containing dental amalgams, because mercury vapor, once it gets into the bloodstream, does cross the placenta and also crosses the blood-brain barrier. University of Calgary’s Faculty of Dentistry has produced a video which shows what mercury does to neurons: How Mercury Causes Brain Neuron Degeneration: http://movies.commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/

More information, including studies, can be found here: http://www.mercurypoisoned.com/FDA_hearings/20YearsofFunding.doc

By lisa

March 21, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

It is well known that there are adverse reactions to vaccinations. If it wasn’t so tragic it would be hilarious that so many powerful vaccine company people and their deaf dumb and blind poodles in Governments want to deny this - when they themselves keep figures and have had confidential meetings about those side effects since vaccines were brought in.

The more complicated we get and the more they hide behind it all or spin it all out.

Bottom line: There is no drug or vaccine without a side effect. For some people those side effects are devastating.

By joe harris

March 21, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Oh ! christine do you really want to go there. first MSG has this effect because glutamate is a key neurotransmitter, for which our cell surfaces have special receptors.

The problem is that over-stimulation of glutamate receptors generates free radicals, which damage nerve and brain cells.

Neuroscience even has a special name � excitotoxins � for chemicals that over-stimulate glutamate receptors, which include MSG and Aspartame.

This is how the authors of a recent study described the dangers of over-stimulating people’s glutamate receptors (Lipton SA et al 2007):

�Excitotoxicity, defined as over-stimulation of glutamate receptors, has been implicated in a final common pathway contributing to neuronal injury and death in a wide range of acute and chronic neurological disorders, ranging from Parkinson’s disease (PD), amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), multiple sclerosis, and Alzheimer’s disease (AD) to stroke and trauma. �Excitotoxic cell death is due, at least in part, to excessive activation of � glutamate receptors, leading to � free radical production … These free radicals can trigger a variety of injurious pathways �� These authors were not talking about the effects of consuming free glutamate or MSG from foods. In fact, there is little or no evidence that even relatively high intake of glutamate or MSG from foods causes detectable, short-term brain damage in human adults or children.

But given what we know about excitotoxins like MSG, it appears plausible to propose that chronic consumption of free glutamate and/or MSG could promote or exacerbate degenerative neurological diseases such as Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s.. You see science is not on your side

Second Methyl vs Ethl you have not been doing your reading. A study by burbacher on M vs E paid for by NIH puts ethyl at two and a half times that more ethyl not methyl goes up in to the brains of infant monkeys than does methyl and always remember this, that a CDC officer told me Injected is always worse than injested because injested it passes through the filters in the body and in fish you have selinum that protects even more. Also when the thimerosal goes in the brain it matabolizes in to one the most dangerous forms, to inorganic and stays in the brain doing very bad damage to cells maybe the out come is what we see in autistic like symtoms? also ethyl- mercury crosses the blood barrier more easily than methyl the study that was just released says just the opposite they tried to float that passed the parents but had to recant and state that it was a typo Yeh! right. Now eaven burbacher had to speak up on the last research about the thimerosal clearing the blood even faster than they thought. He said you might want to look again in the child and that fits the Bleazerd deposition in it the sigma aldrich case they ask him under oath what is the first listed target organs for this toxic substance his reply is nerves the central nervous system the attny. ask is there a safe level in the work place for thimerosal his reply is no. the attny. ask about a different page on target organs the reply is the brain an the coverings around the brain and other degeneritive changes one of the effects on the embreo fetus is fetal death “AKA” SID’S check mate you loose, no I refrain we all loose

By Marlene B.

March 21, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Thousands of infants die annally of “Sudden Infant Death Syndrome” within a few days of receiving vaccines too. Few are properly reported as adverse vaccine event, but far too many are dismissed as “unknown cause” or worse yet, innocent parents accused of abuse that caused encephilitis and fever. This of course is blantant cover up of vaccine injury. Stop the lies! Stop the genocide!

By Heather King

March 21, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Why is it so unreasonable to demand SAFE vaccines. Objecting to my child being injected with mercury, formaldehyde, aluminum and msg, along with 3-5 viruses at one visit is using COMMON SENSE. I watched both of my children slip away instantly after their well-baby visits. One of them walked away with a DOCUMENTED reaction to his MMR/VARICELLA vaccine. I DID vaccinate up until that point. It�s real easy to say that a few kids suffering is OK for the greater good- until it�s YOUR CHILD that it happens to. Have you ever heard the term �What does not bend will break�? Well, that�s exactly what is going to happen to the CDC�s vaccine program if they don�t start listening to parents� concerns instead of stonewalling them. More and more parents are going to break from the ranks of �sheeple� that believe everything that their doctors and government officials tell them.

Skeptic, In case you missed Ginger Taylor’s earlier comments regarding Mitochondrial dysfunction, go to your search engine and type in “Thimerosal” and “Mitochondrial”, and you can see for yourself that Thimerosal CAUSES Mitochondrial dysfunction. The kind found more commonly in children with autism than in the general population. The Kind that BOTH of my children with “autism” were diagnosed with in 2006.

Beverly Barton, your comments sound eerily like Julie Gerberding’s during the recent CDC press release on the Poling decision AND her panicked comments during the Senate Appropriations hearing last year on Autism, after being questioned about the safety of vaccines from Senator Harkin.

By David Gorski

March 21, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

“I get a hellish laugh when I see David Gorski(quack) mention science based medicine in reference to vaccine safety. Science based medicine would completely exclude the use of mercury in vaccinations. If science based medicine were applied to vaccination manufacturing requirements and to alter the current vaccination schedule there wouldn�t be an epidemic of developmental disabilities in children and hence no debate.”

Personally I get a hellish laugh when I see a Genius who is not, someone who clearly doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about, make such blanket statements and spread such misinformation about vaccines—but then the laughter dies on my lips when I realize that such non-science-based antivaccine views endanger our children by threatening the return of vaccine-preventable diseases that have been more or less eradicated over the last 60 years.

I’d ask you to point out anything in my post that’s factually incorrect in a substantive manner that puts in doubt the overall point I made, but I know you won’t be able to do so—other than to repeat the same old misinformation cribbed off of antivaccinationist websites, of course.

By Kid Doc

March 21, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

By wow,

It does seem to be good to be ignored on these comments, doesn’t it…

Sorry if I used a masculine pronoun; I try to keep things gender-neutral if I can but I think I was a little fired up as I was typing (it was a little rush from cashing all the big pharma checks I receive with each comment, you know…). I think from the style of your comment I detected something “respectfully insolent” (http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/). For some reason (maybe based on the vehemence of his insolence) I am under the assumption Orac is a male member of the species…

By Kelli Ann Davis

March 21, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Sam Centipedro writes: “Quacks, frauds and liars do not have the solution; it�s the medical professionals who really care for your children, not the exploitative monsters who sell you their books of filth and quack remedies (chelation, my foot!).”

Rigggghttt.

Like a pediatrician doesn’t make any money on the well baby visits which make up the majority of their business?

Don’t you think they just may have a vested interest in wanting to make sure vaccines are exonerated considering this itty, bitty fact???

By Genius

March 21, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

elaine-Do you understand what you just said?

Do’C- “This study say absolutely nothing about autism. Nothing. Autism is not mercury poisoning - even David Kirby seems to be starting to get that”.

Well of course it didn’t. Mercury is good for you- right Do’C? Especially babies-right? The younger the better, no testing required. right?

And to the goof that posted this pearl of wisdom- “So please stop your stupid lying and parroting of nonsense: vaccines do not cause autism. Quacks, frauds and liars do not have the solution”

But you do don’t you. What’s it like to be so all knowing of the truth? I bet it’s awesome! As far as your request-NO, GET IT- NO. The all knowing Sam Centipedro does not decide who talks and who doesn’t-thank god. VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM!!!!! Just drives you nuts doesn’t it!

By Janet

March 21, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

The use of aluminum as an adjuvant in vaccines can also cause motor neuron death. This was found by Chris Shaw, a Vancouver, B.C. neuroscientist: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

Article regarding Shaw’s study (before publication of the study): http://www.straight.com/article/vaccines-show-sinister-side

By David Gorski

March 21, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

“or better yet, JUST GET RID OF THIMEROSAL AND ALUMINUM AND FORMALDYHYDE, AS WELL AS ALL NEUROTOXINS AS PRESERVATIVES, PLEASE MAKE VACCINES SAFE FOR ALL!!!”

All caps do not make your point any more compelling.

Just a hint.

Please read this for why this whole “toxins in vaccines” thing is nothing more than misinformation and exaggeration used by antivaccinationists:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=9

Feel free to head on over to the blog and refute it if you can. The same goes for Genius, who, although huffing and puffing seemed unable to produce a wind that even ruffled the eaves of the post.

By M.

March 21, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Sigh. Study after study after study shows no connection between vaccines and autism. Study after study shows that the rates of autism are not higher among vaccinated then among unvaccinated.

But no, we shall fiddle with numbers, and shrilly demand that “more research be done”; in the process, we should discard the most successful medical intervention in history of humankind.

Yes, let’s go back to the time of my great-great-grandmothers - who lost one out of three of their children to diseases you are now no longer vaccinating your children against. Oh, they’ll be fine, as long as they don’t travel and as long as everyone else keeps vaccinating.

But do you know the worst part?

We who do actual science have to waste our time with this nonsense. We have now established beyond any reasonable doubt that vaccines have nothing to do with autism. It is time to concentrate on research, to figure out what’s going on. We have strong implications in neuronal energy metabolism, and proper synapse development (two things possibly linked to each other).

But funding is extremely difficult to get, and the current administration keeps cutting and/or limiting the NIH budget. If there was more funding available, the research would be proceeding much faster.

If you people spent 10% of the energy you do screaming against vaccines through the past decade or so (and making utter fools of yourselves in the process; dangerous fools who endanger their children as well as children of other people, but fools nonetheless) - if just 10% of that energy was directed at lobbying for more funding allocations for autism research… we could have already figured out the etiology of autism by now.

But no. You believe, and nothing anyone can say will ever make you doubt. You “know,” and to hell with facts. You praise Kirby, one of the most dishonest quasi-journalists to ever disgrace the profession. You support Wakefield and his directly fraudulent “research”.

And you’ll keep screaming until someone actually competent figures out what causes autism. Although, I guess you’ll find something else to blame on vaccines at that point.

But don’t worry. We who do actual science, instead of just making things up - we’ll keep on working on it. And trying to limit the damage you are doing as best as we can… No other choice, really.

By Bob

March 21, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

To Kids Doc, Wow and Genius: Please read Charles Richet’s “Anaphylaxis” Nobel Prize acceptance speech given in 1931, at:

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1913/richet-lecture.html

The man identified “anaphylaxis” almost one hundred years ago…yet..you three “experts” appear to have never heard of it.

Please pay special attention to Richet’s description of our immune systems, which he describes as being individually unique…much like our fingerprints and our DNA. Our immune sysemts have some of the same capabilities as our brains….remembering and recognizing threats to our bodies…which are formed by genetics, previous exposure to toxins in utero, previous exposure to diseases, etc. etc.

Then, after informing yourselves of Richet’s brilliant observations…please feel free continuing to engage in sophistry rather than science.

By Christine

March 21, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

To (the real) Joe Harris: Joe Harris wrote, “Oh ! christine do you really want to go there. first MSG has this effect because glutamate is a key neurotransmitter, for which our cell surfaces have special receptors.” I did not write any comments about MSG. Those comments were written by someone who called him/herself “joe harris=fool”. My posting was right above that. Unfortunately, the breaks between various postings are not always easily discerned. Besides, I would never refer to YOU as a fool and I avoid MSG myself, and think it as no place in any vaccine.

By Genius

March 21, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Yeah there’s nothing funny about this subject DR Gorski-The list of MD�S AND PHD�S that disagree with you is longer than the number of checks you�ve cashed from pharmaceutical companies to push their products.

And I believe them. Not you. I have seen your posts around and frankly,I think there is something wrong with you.

Now, show me that scientific study that proves injecting ethyl mercury into infants is safe and I�ll show you some junk science for the Quackwatch quack site.

By Do'C

March 21, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Genius sic wrote: “Well of course it didn�t. Mercury is good for you- right Do�C? Especially babies-right? The younger the better, no testing required. right?”

Chasing a straw man won’t make a paper that has nothing to do with autism, have something to do with it. Nice try though.

By Up To HERE Mom

March 21, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Enough is enough!!! I know that our son was doing FINE until he had his one series of his SAFE vaccines, I know there must be an underlying genetic something in our family that these mercury containing vaccines caused. Especially when the beloved military Drs assured us that it was ok to play catch-up on some of them because he had been sick and couldn’t get a couple on the regular schedule.
I know the importance of vaccinations, I had an older cousin who had fallen to polio in her youth and seen what her life had been like because of that tragedy.
So to all the Drs, heads of the big buck making pharm companies and anyone else who thinks they have all the answers that putting toxins into our children does NOT cause autism, add, etc. SAVE IT!! Walk in my shoes and every other parents. Come to my home and sit by my side as I watch my beautiful son with the red curly hair who at almost 16 should be studying for his license instead of running around flapping his hands like a bird, rocking back and forth when he is upset or telling me that he hates school cause he is doing 4th grade work in the 10th grade!! SAVE IT INDEED!! Instead, why don’t you work with us in trying to find out WHY this has happened and stop SELLING OUT to the CDC and the PHARM COs. and helping those your supposed to be helping??? Give us all a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Genius

March 21, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Do’C. My statements simply put the current CDC recommended vaccine policy in layman’s language. Now, show me that scientific study that proves injecting ethyl mercury into infants is safe.

shh-it a very toxic substance.

To any dispassionate observers.

I’m just jerking some chains here. Ethyl mercury is highly toxic and is not safe at any level for injection into a human. It’s safety has never been proven and according to some of the best chemists and toxicologists, it never will be. It is in some child hood vaccinations and the flu vaccine and it causes developmental delays and autism in a growing subset of children.

By joan

March 21, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

David Kirby’s credulity is surpassed only by that of his groupie-parents. He is preening over his little “bombshells” while misleading well-meaning parents into opting out of life-saving vaccines. It’s not a matter of mommy intuition, it’s a matter of science, and I guess it will take a few measles deaths for people to get that.

By Margaret Romao Toigo

March 21, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

I note that Mr. Kirby’s article appears in the opinion section of this newspaper, and not in the news or science sections.

This is because there are very little to no facts or science contained within the text of Mr. Kirby’s anti-vaccination sentiments.

Vaccines do not cause autism. There is a very large body of scientific evidence that backs up that assertion, and there is not even one shred of credible evidence to the contrary.

There is no scientific controversy whatsoever surrounding vaccines and autism. Mr. Kirby’s nonsensical op-ed is based purely upon a fringe political agenda, not any legitimate science.

Since the first signs of autism become apparent around the same time when most kids are getting their vaccines, anti-vaccination activists have latched onto autism, and are now using it as the centerpiece of their campaign to turn the clock on public health back to the bad old days, before vaccines, when infectious diseases killed or maimed millions of people — mostly infants and children — every year.

It should also be noted that anti-vaccination activists have posted links to this editorial on their web sites and blogs, urging their fellow anti-vaccination activists to flood the comments section so that it appears that their cause is embraced by large numbers of people when anti-vaccination politicking is, in reality, a sub 1% issue.

By to elaine

March 21, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

i’m not sure how you can say vaccines are safer than the diseases they are meant to prevent. i’m not sure of the exact chances of dying of the measles (let’s guess 1 in a million for giggles), and my son has a 1 in 94 chance of autism. hmmmm which odds will i take with my kid? until the CDC cleans it up, I’ll take my chances with measles, thanks!

By Shawn

March 21, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Thimerosol was taken out of vaccines, voluntarily, because of the blind panic. In a way it was a bad idea because it looked like an admission of guilt, but what it was was just drug companies trying to alleviate fears and keep kids healthy. What the anti-vaccine folks can’t get a hand on is that afterward there was no decrease in autism rates! However, the anti-vaccine people keep coming up with ‘alternative explanations’ or ignore this fact altogether. This is a typical example of starting with a conclusion and holding onto despite all contrary evidence!

These people have caused more deaths now that they can imagine because kids are now getting childhood diseases we eliminated decades ago. They should be ashamed! But they will hold to their unfounded beliefs no matter what and spread their fears around and more children will die. Because of them we may see polio emerge again. This is almost criminal of them to keep spreading this nonsense around.

By joe harris

March 21, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Sam Centipedro says So please stop your stupid lying and parroting of nonsense: vaccines do not cause autism. Quacks, frauds and liars do not have the solution; it�s the medical professionals who really care for your children, not the exploitative monsters who sell you their books of filth and quack remedies (chelation, my foot!). first, Sam your paroting some of the biggest liers, the CDC, not all some. The so called pro’s you are refering to, would be paul proffit I mean offit that was a typo by the way his livly hood is based on vaccines He made the statement “I dont believe full discloser is a good idea just because we say thimerosal is a neurltoxin and we remove it I believe that does not make vaccines safer it makes them perceivable safer my thought, that is stupid! that’s like saying just because we say, that gun has bullets, and we say they are dangerous just because we remove them it does not mean the gun is safer it’s just perceivable safer what is a gun with out bullets a boat anchor, of coarse it is safer. now chealation did you know we had mercury poisoning in children that was claiming children at 1- 500 in teething powders this was written the drug of choice was chealation you know , that word you mocked it was said of chealation that before we could get a study togather it pinks was already gone. move forward to today thousands of children have come off the spectrum at early ages with chealation, that which was called a drug of choice then is today being called antidotal evidence and dangerous.

By jeez

March 21, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Big deal-where did you slink in from Marge “It should also be noted that anti-vaccination activists have posted links to this editorial on their web sites and blogs, urging their fellow anti-vaccination activists to flood the comments section so that it appears that their cause is embraced by large numbers of people when anti-vaccination politicking is, in reality, a sub 1% issue.”

Huge pharmaceutical companies buy almost all the advertising during the news and in dozens of magazines and pay goofs like you to surf the internet in order to hide the truth so they can evade responsibility and you think its news vaccine safety advocates have a blog.

These statements are just idiotic nonsense—“Vaccines do not cause autism. There is a very large body of scientific evidence that backs up that assertion, and there is not even one shred of credible evidence to the contrary. There is no scientific controversy whatsoever surrounding vaccines and autism.”

The days where the casual observer will fall for that kind of propaganda are over. vaccines cause autism.

By Elaine

March 21, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

But the reason you have such a miniscule chance of dying of the measles is because of vaccination! It used to be that everyone got the measles. But not any more. It used to be that a million kids in undeveloped countries died of measles every year. But not any more. If not enough people vaccinate, we’re going to go back to those bad old days. The MMR shot never had thimerosol in it anyway. When my son was a baby, I always postponed his shots if he had been recently sick. I didn’t get 20 shots in one visit. It’s possible to vaccinate carefully.

By clsr

March 21, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

when one really wants to know the facts and not just be a lemming, you should look at the time-line of every disease now being vaccinated against. EVERY single one was virtually eradicated from the U.S. prior to the vaccine! How? Why? because the most important aspect of public health (no …not vaccines!) was already present: Safe water, sanitation, better diet and availability to healthier foods. There’s no denying the time-lines, all you have to do is a little research. Thimerosal is not the only problem here either, there are plenty of toxins in the vaccines (just look @ the ingredients list for God’s sake!) we are trading measles and mumps for cencer and autism. When I see Gerberding in prison and a fire sale @ eli lilly…I’ll finally be satisfied!

By Christine

March 21, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

The “very large body of scientific evidence” that shows no link between vaccines and autism, that Margaret Romao Toigo is referring to, has some serious flaws. Some of those studies were funded by the CDC themselves, or their European counterparts, like the Statens Serum Institut in Denmark.Why should we accept the foxes’ versions of what is wrong in the henhouse? More info about these studies (and their flaws) can be read here: http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/

By Linda

March 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

For years children were routinely given aspirin, generally regarded as entirely safe. But because a small subset of kids can develop Reyes syndrome, a potentially devastating, even lethal disease, doctors have unanimously reversed their view and recommendations of aspirin use for children. Is it so hard for the medical community to understand, that for a subset of children, vaccines can contribute to the devastating disease known as Autism Spectrum disorders, or for that matter increased allergies, or asthma or ADD or ADHD or learning disabilities or speech or language delays? If the medical community can make the adjustment for the small number of potential children that could develop Reyes, can’t they do the same given the astounding 1 in 150 with ASD????????

By Marlene Gentilcore

March 21, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Thank you, David Kirby and any form of media willing, able and brave enough to print the true about what is happening to one out of 150 children in this country—and around the world. My grandson was diagnosed seven years ago. My daughter ran around and around to hospitals, doctors, therapists—everywhere, just trying to find out what was wrong with her little boy. A little boy who was perfectly normal—talking, singing, laughing, responding—until receiving his one year vaccinations and stopped talking at 18 months. One day she called me after doing some research in the library. She said his arm flapping and other signs he had were the same as someone with mercury poisoning. She was scared because all the traditional medical doctors said it couldn’t be, but found a pediatrician who understood and started chelation. He improved greatly. But there is a long way to go. When we read your articles and we read your book, you confirmed what we knew but could not believe. That the child was harmed by the vaccines.
If nothing else thank you for letting us know we are not alone and crazy.
Now all we have to do is figure out how to file the proper law suits. Shame on the CDC, the FDA and the way this government is handling this childhood epidemic.

By open2answers

March 21, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

Ok, here’s something that will p** everyone off. Maybe you can find a common enemy in me and start to come together.

I know this is inherently an emotional topic and I understand why both sides are upset. Please remember, however, that neither side has cornered the market on caring about kids. The more you call each other names and make accusations that the other side is in it only for profits, the more you polarize the issue and ensure that NOTHING WILL CHANGE. I know it’s difficult. The people who are questioning vaccines sincerely believe what they are saying and they do have some pretty credible evidence. They believe vaccines are poisoning kids. Vaccine proponents believe that vaccines save lives. I’m not naive enough to think that either side is made up entirely of people with pure motives. But I’m not cynical enough to think either side is made up of a majority of people who are idiotic, sheeplike or evil.

Please, folks, this is very important stuff. Let’s act like adults, no matter how strongly we feel.

By M.

March 21, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

The days where the casual observer will fall for that kind of propaganda are over. vaccines cause autism.

And pigs can fly, and there are unicorns living in the Andes.

Saying something really loudly does not make it true. Repeating it ad nauseam will not make it true either.

Vaccines do not cause autism.

Unlike yours, my statement is backed by years of research.

If they did, then there would be a relation between them - vaccinated children would be autistic more often then unvaccinated. Not the case.

And I feel for all you mothers who “know” that our children got worse after vaccinations. No, I really do.

But there is a small problem. For centuries, people “knew” that bleeding a sick person helped cure the disease - after all, the fever would go down, and the person would become docile. Better, right?

Until people started counting, and realized that chances of survival are much better without bleeding then with bleeding.

Anecdotal observations are avoided in science precisely because history has taught us again and again that they usually lead to wrong results. Oh, we’ll take them as a starting point - but then we’ll do a controlled experiment.

And we did so with your claims, and found no link between vaccines and autism. Sorry to dissapoint you. I know it helps if you have someone to blame.

But if you really want to help fewer kids get autism? Go and yell at the politicians to increase NIH funding. Go and lobby for increased autism funding. We’ll figure it out. We need funding, and time.

Sorry, yes, we do need time. It is faster to make up the cause, and then yell about it, I know. It is also more satisfying. Ever studied the fourteenth century? “People are dying of plague, what is causing it?” “Well, obviously, Jews are poisoning the wells!” “Kill them all!”

Same thing here. It is too hard to wait for science to systematically work its way through the process. It is easier to make up a reason, and then attack the people you perceive as connected to it. It’s human nature.

Oh, and one more thing to the mercury-obsessed people. Ignoring the fact that thimerosal is no longer in the vaccines, and ignoring the fact that autism rates are pretty low in countries with very poor vaccine production standards (many of whom still use thimerosal). Let me give a slight twist to your logic.

It used to be all dental fillings were amalgamate - and included a significant amount of mercury. Not only does a filling constantly expose a person to low levels of mercury deposited directly into the blood through the mucous membranes, but there is a whomping initial dose that occurs during the first few days after the filling is put in.

And mercury-based fillings were used extensively in children, and fillings that mother has leach mercury into the milk fed to the babies.

But in the past few decades, mercury fillings have been increasingly replaced by composites, which contain no mercury. And autsim rates spiked.

Therefore, using a an incorrect logic, but a logic that is much better then yours, I have just shown that reduction in mercury levels kids are exposed to may be the cause of autism.

Heh. Like talking to cult members. Facts. Just. Bounce. Off.

By Maurine Meleck

March 21, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

Elaine- your car analogy is a poor one. However, when drivers kill children in car accidents-they often get their licenses revoked and jailtime. Get my point???????

To Jeez Children die in underdeveloped countries mainly due to poor sanitation and poverty-not really because of the measles. Whe I grew up years ago we all had the measles-family-schoolmates-I never heard of one person dying or having anything more than a normal case of the measles. BTW-the numbers of people not vaccinating is going up and up and up every year. This is not going away, much to your distress about it. and until the government changes its ways-you’ll have to stay clear of our unvaccinated children-good luck.

By dsag

March 21, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

This is why I hate listening to parents of Autistics. Instead of doing anything to actually help their children, they spend all their time and energy on ridiculous conspiracy theories about ‘big pharma’ poisoning their kids and covering it up.

It’s time for those parents to accept that Autism is not caused by vaccines. Maybe if they would finally shut up more work could be done to actually help people.

By Ginger Taylor

March 21, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Kid Doc,

One of my children is already living with the ‘horrors of autism’ as you put it, thanks to his vaccines.

And you missed the point of my questions… He HAD to have three doses of each of these vaccines in the first 18 months of life? All 36 shots?

If we doubled that time, spread them out over three years, he probably would have contracted Hep B from one of the o-so-common biting babies with Hep B?

Getting 7 or so vaccines in one visit is reasonable? Would you prescribe 7 different meds for a child in one visit? An infant with almost no track record of health to make judgments on?

Read the vaccine insert, it does not recommend it for babies because babies are at risk.. the ACIP recommended it because they couldn’t get adults at risk for Hep B to take it so they are trying to get it to them when they are tots!

“You actually do have the right to request that your child’s antibody titers be tested after the first immunization”

Which would have been great information to have BEFORE my son regressed after his 18 month vaccinations (where he received the third doses of vaccines that he probably already had the immunity for.) But how many docs do you know tell patients that? Do you tell your patients about titers testing? I am betting no.

And needle sticks not so much a problem for my autistic son as he now gets stuck somewhere between two and six times a week so we can treat all the damage that has been done to him by his super duper safe vaccines that he was a poor receptacle for. At age 5 he was sitting down pulling up his sleeve and impressing nurses with his unflinching braveness even when they had to try more than once to find a vein. He has been suck so much it has been a long time since that upset him.

Oh… and before you say that no doctor says vaccines are 100% safe, check with the new head of the AAP. he said on the Today show last week that there is no such thing as vaccine injury.

Also… have you gone over to pubmed yet and check on those thimerosal/mito studies?

Also… please use paragraphs. Your blob of words are difficult to read.

By Janet

March 21, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

Back in the 1950s and 1960s, childhood diseases like measles, mumps, and chicken pox were not considered to be dreaded diseases, at least not in Canada and the U.S.. I wonder how many of us, who are posting here, were born during those years and had these diseases. I had all three as a youngster, and even have rather fond memories of how my parents treated me while I was ill: meals in bed, extra stories read, more parental attention in general as they tried to keep us entertained while we were bedridden/housebound. At the same time, there was no sense that we had some horrible disease that we might not survive or be scathed with for years to come.

By M.

March 21, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

If the medical community can make the adjustment for the small number of potential children that could develop Reyes, can�t they do the same given the astounding 1 in 150 with ASD?

And they will, as soon as we figure out what’s causing it.

We know it’s not vaccines. If we cancelled vaccinations completely tomorrow, we would have a public health catastrophe on our hands, but we would not have any effect on autism rates.

So until we know what to adjust, we can’t adjust it.

Now all we have to do is figure out how to file the proper law suits. Shame on the CDC, the FDA and the way this government is handling this childhood epidemic.

Yes, by all means, go for the lawsuits!

Contrary to the dishonest and fraudulent article by Kirby, there is no link between autism and vaccines.

What happened is that a child with mitochondrial disease (something far, far worse then most autism cases) had a negative reaction to a vaccine - which is a known complication. As a result, she developed autism-like symptoms.

And here’s the kicker - if the child never received the vaccine, the same thing would happen at her next febrile disease (i.e. the first time she caught something and had a fever). It was the fever that did the damage, overwhelming her impaired metabolic system, not the vaccine itself.

She was scared because all the traditional medical doctors said it couldn�t be, but found a pediatrician who understood and started chelation. He improved greatly.

In other words, he showed onset of autism at a common time for onset of noticable autistic symptoms. Your daughter incorrectly diagnosed mercury poisoning (which is worlds different then autism), and took him to a scam artist.

Since most autistic children slowly improve over time, so did her son. But the con artist “doctor” took the credit for the improvement.

The only remaining question is “how much does he charge”?

Please, folks, this is very important stuff. Let�s act like adults, no matter how strongly we feel.

This is very important stuff, yes. But this has been going on for a long while, and it is time to treat it with contempt it deserves.

Parents got scared, and blamed the vaccines. We put tens of millions of dollars into studies to see if this is true, and we found no link. We took thimerosal out of the vaccines just in case.

But the screaming continues. Look at the comments - people are still blaming thimerosal, even though there is no more thimerosal in the vaccines. Apparently, thimerosal in vaccines many years ago is causing autism now?

The mercury militia has abandoned all semblance of reason. Look for yourself at the explanations why they won’t accept any of the studies that show there is no link - it’s a conspiracy to hide the evidence!

Yes, and the government is hiding the evidence of aliens, and 9/11 was a product of conspiracy, and there is a Loch Ness monster - those people are hiding the truth from us!

Only a few brave individuals dare to challenge the system! For a small fee, of course. Chelating agents cost them almost a hundred dollars per kilo; they just have to charge hundreds for each injection.

Or you can just buy their book. Hey, they are heroes, right. It’s a good investment.

It does not dawn on these people that they are spitting in the faces of exactly those who are trying to help. You know what a postdoc makes in the average neuroscience lab? About $35K. They can get 80-100 in industry, if they wanted to go to Merck or some other pharma company.

But no, they work for peanuts, the usually required 60-80 hour weeks, trying to figure human nervous system out, and figure out autism. And what do they get from the parents? Accusations that they are being paid by the CDC, pharmaceutical industry, that they knowingly damage and kill children…

It is insane, it is despicable, and it needs to be pointed out whenever it rears its ugly head.

By Dangerous Bacon

March 21, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

The people who think we give too many vaccines are not aware of or are ignoring a couple of things.

First, the number of immune-stimulating antigens in vaccines is dwarfed by the vastly greater number in infectious agents that our children are exposed to every day. A child’s immune system is capable of handling lots of challenges. Vaccines are a drop in the bucket.

Also, thanks to refinements in immunization science, children’s immune systems are presented with far fewer vaccine antigens today than in years past. For instance, the smallpox vaccine (no longer used) had more antigens in it than all of the current vaccines put together.

The autism-vaccine theory has been debunked so thoroughly and repeatedly you wonder why its proponents keep spouting it so persistently. If you take the trouble to learn the issues and get the facts, people like David Kirby are seen for what they are - antivaxers with an axe to grind.

By Ginger Taylor

March 21, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Kids Doc,

If I might just take another moment to point out your glaring hypocracy…

“And people on the fence should pay close attention to the fact that he has written a book on this subject, and increased interest in this issue equals increased book sales equals David Kirby making money off of his wild claims and fearmongering.”

Should those on the fence also pay close attention to the fact that a huge portion of your salary comes from administering vaccines?

About how much do you make vaccinating every year? And why is this not just a big of a conflict of interesting in listening to you as to Kirby?

Plus, if Kirby is wrong, he can’t get sued by everyone who ever read his book like you can by every patient you failed to point out the full risks of vaccinating to.

And him discussing the Poling court case where the government has stated that Hanna’s autism was caused by her fever which was caused by her vaccines is fear mongering… but when you say this to us:

“Put your money down and offer to reimburse the full medical and therapeutic costs accrued by any family whose child is affected by a vaccine-preventable illness. Mumps-related deafness, pertussis-related anoxia, polio-related paralysis, measles-related encephalopathy, Hib and pneumococcal meningitis, all are waiting to strike children when immunization rates to go down low enough. We saw one unimmunized child end up hospitalized in the recent San Diego measles outbreak, and thanks to the anti-vaccine propagandists, the real tragedy may just be beginning.”

That is NOT fear mongering???

You are so arrogant!

Stop and listen. Pay attention to what is going on. The government, who DOES NOT want to admit that vaccines have anything to do with autism, has been forced to admit that they do, on paper, in court and it is now playing out in the media.

A family was given their day in court, and their cases was SO GOOD that the government conceded it and are now fighting like the dickens to keep the facts of this case under wraps.

The family wants those documents out for all the world to see….

Mr. Poling is a very smart man, and vastly more qualified than you, I or David Gorsky to talk about neurological problems. If he thought that having the details of the case out in public would harm his credibility in his claim that his daughters autism was a vaccine injury, then why would he be trying to get the government to release them?

Do you see the handwriting on the wall? Do you understand what is coming?

By Janet

March 21, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Dsag, You may not realize this, but it does help to know what may have caused a disorder, in order to be able to treat it more effectively, and prevent more children from being affected by the same disorder. Seems like a “no-brainer” to me! Why twist ourselves into knots trying to get funding for ABA/IBI, when less expensive interventions or treatments for mercury poisoning may help our kids make gains? However, to do that, one would need to know more about the causes of autism, so that one could devise the best treatment or intervention plan for any one child, and yes, they are very different and not all benefit from the same approaches/treatments.

By joe harris

March 21, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

Margaret Romao Toigo the science you quote as a very large body of scientific evidence Seems to be shrinking, verstreaten for example his earlier work you know before he was hired by GSK found a link, then he left to go to GSK his work was changed 5 times to nothing but ticks, his work was put in the journal of ped. even with a conflict of interest imagen that, is this not why wakefeild is fighting for his career with the GMC. when Vestreaten thought he was going to be brought back to the U.S. he admitted he did not find a positive or a negative he found a neutral. so at best you have nothing with him one down. next is denmark you see we have through the FOIA act a woman from CDC saying they have searched frantically and there’s nothing in the U.S. that supports them, they will need to go over seas to denmark. And that is what they did they bought the best that your tax dollars could buy not science but lies anders hivid came here and told the biggist bull sh##t you ever heard about the numbers going up when removing thimerosal incidentally the the denmark Gov. has not put it back in. If it was protecting children from autism you would think they would, change thier mind about taking it out. we have a email from denmark saying the incidence of autism and prevalance there of continue to decline. So we should be asking the CDC why the sentence before an after her statement of decline was blacked out. You see if you have not figured out by now the CDC lies more than it tells the truth. Another study the miller study from the U.K. was so screwed up she asked if she has to give back the money. so far nothing but fraud, now for the grand finally the 2004 prestiegous IOM ruling I hate to break it to you but science had nothing to do with thier decision they were orderd not to find causation we know this because of the FOIA act it seem this saves our a* a lot from a crooked agency such as the CDC sorry, I am wrong IOM is not a Goverment agency it does not apply some one there leaked the minutes Im assuming they were frightened at the thought of more children being poisoned and that they needed to take action. This is what was said Dr. McCormick, for example, in speaking of the CDC, noted that the agency “wants us to declare, well, these things are pretty safe on a population basis then later she said walter orinstin wants this and what walt wants walt generally gets so much for all that very large body of scientific evidence. can you say stacking the deck. Seems they don’t know how to play fair. This was also said “We’ve got a dragon by the tail here,” states a committee member in the transcript. “At the end of the line, what we know is - and I agree - that the more negative that presentation [the report] is, the less likely people are to use vaccination, immunization, and we know what the results of that will be. We are kind of caught in a trap. How we work our way out of the trap, I think, is the charge.”

I just don’t think they thought about the opposite side of that coin is they will be poisoning more children, to keep a already failing vaccine program propped up can you say terrorist, Byron child magazine heard that it was in thier contract with the CDC an IOM not to find a link MMR or Thimerosal this is what they were told: When byronchild asked CDC spokesperson Curtis Allen for a copy of the contract that would detail the agreement between the IOM and the CDC, Allen stated that the contract would be available only in a heavily “redacted” or blacked-out format. It seems they the CDC uses that method blacked out format more than the military the CDC uses it for covering up lies

The IOM stated “no comment” to byronchild about the leaked transcript or its use in the pending civil court case. Boy your large body of evidence ain’t so large any more Huh!

By Janet

March 21, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

Even Hannah Poling’s father wonders whether the vaccines his daughter received contributed to her DEVELOPING mitochondrial disorder/dysfunction. It is not a clear cut case that Hannah inherited her mitochondrial problems (be they a disorder or dysfunction) from her mother. She did receive hepatitis b shots shortly after birth, which preceeded the nine-vaccine cocktail she had later on. Thimerosal can cause mitochondrial dysfunction. All it takes is a simple google/pubmed search to find that out. http://onedadsopinion.blogspot.com/2008/03/autism-mito-vaccine-court-and-polings.html

By UndertheRadar

March 21, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

M. wrote:

“Since most autistic children slowly improve over time, so did her son. But the con artist �doctor� took the credit for the improvement.”

Now this is interesting.

Seems this is the “newest” talking point from folks who need to devise some sort of explanation for the thousands of recovered kids.

When Pharma “popped in” to see a �very interested� science person in a congressional committee, this was the argument they used in an attempt to steer this person away from taking a closer look at all of this.

Thanks goodness this person was smart enough to �ask them for the studies� to back up their unscientific claim.

They are still waiting�.just like me.

So M. � got any studies to back up your claim that children just �grow out� of autism?

By joe harris

March 21, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

By M you said Unlike yours, my statement is backed by years of research.

If they did, then there would be a relation between them - vaccinated children would be autistic more often then unvaccinated. Not the case. read my last post then do a search on pinks disease the subset group back the in the late 1800’s to 1950’s was 1 in 500 children effected that was mercury poisoning through teething powders most children were not effected. they had an interim plan in the 80’s to get rid of thimerosal google search KOMU listen to good reporting Frank Engly a micro biologist from an erra when people had integrity consulted for EPA CDC FDA and NASA he worked late 70’s to 80’s he said he did some of the first research on the toxicity of thimerosal. He said we found out it was toxic down to a level almost unbelieveble, it was toxic down to 1-10-maybe 100 nanograms he also said if they had taken thier advice in the 80’s we might not have had an autism epidemic. that fits what congressman Burton said at a hearing of his. He was speaking to DR. egan from cber of the FDA he said you had a interim plan in the 80’s to get rid of this stuff. so you now know they have had warning after warning congressman Burton saying this, I have had you in my hearings year after year asking you why, you want just get it out! it’s not necessary to remain in the vaccines. they have single vaccine vials, they just look at him, with a blank look on their faces.

By Suska

March 21, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Ginger Taylor.

While Kirby is spewing irrational fears, Kids Doc is informing you about the very real dangerous of not vaccinating. There is a difference between “fear mongering” and facts that are scary/unpleasant.

you said: “Mr. Poling is a very smart man, and vastly more qualified than you, I or David Gorsky to talk about neurological problems.”

It’s rather surprising and hypocritical that you are so very adamant in being overtly and irrationally suspicious of only those that disagree with you. I’m talking, of course, about the fact that you fail to see the obvious bias Dr. Poling has as a father making statements regarding his own daughter. Furthermore, don’t you think it’s unethical or at least suspicious that he coauthored a study report regarding his own daughter and failed to mention that very fact in the report??? And what makes other doctors unqualified to give facts about vaccines and other medical knowledge??? They too learn about the nervous system. Nevertheless, if it’s neurological credentials you want why don’t you look at what other neurologists have to say about Hannah’s case (http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=203)

By strider

March 21, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

1) How many children have died from diseases that they have not been vaccinated for?
2) How many died of these diseases before there even were vaccinations?
3) Do you think it is the responsibility of the government to protect your health? 4) Why do schools require kids to be vaccinated before coming to school? 5) If the choice were austism or death, what would you choose?
6) If it is true that there is no connection between vaccinations and autism and your child dies because you failed to protect her, is it your fault?

Consult the experts, they’re probably not the ones getting all the attention in the media. One good place to start is tinyurl.com/yodjwm (Why are we injecting TOXINS into our babies?) among others.

By Randy P

March 21, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

I don�t think people have any comprehension how devastating infectious diseases were in the pre-antibiotic era. There were thousands of children who died each year, and tens of thousands who had terrible illnesses and life-long disabilities from diseases that are now hardly ever seen. In my specialty we used routinely see kids with life threatening airway obstruction due to an organism called Haemophilus; that disease has practically disappeared with vaccines and many young doctors have never even seen a case. Up to 10% of all cases of acquired childhood deafness cases were due to measles, and this as well as the encephalitis that was seen in 1 out of 1000 kids who got the disease is a thing of the past. These are just a few of the tremendous morbidities that have been avoided due to the successful public health vaccination programs (think of smallpox, polio, diphtheria, and on and on and on).

I would recommend that we require that every child in public schools and any child who will be in a public setting must have demonstrated immunity to the communicable disease for which we now immunize, no exceptions; not religious, not new age, not nothing. If parents don�t want to expose their kids to vaccinations, then they should be required to allow their children to infected with all those diseases in order to they develop that immunity. And the parents must be prepared for the consequences of that action. Perhaps they could all take a field trip to sub Sahara Africa or some other similar setting where immunization rates are low to help in the inoculation process.

By Danita D. Sorenson,Ph.D.

March 21, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Thank you, David Kerby for your well documented comments. Thank YOU, AJC for having the courage and forethought to print this important information. Perhaps others will follow your example, pull their heads from the sand, open their eyes, clear their heads, and begin to demand the truth!

By Randy P

March 21, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Oops, I meant to say in the pre-vaccination era in my previous post.

But things were also pretty bad in the pre-antibiotic era.

By Heidi

March 21, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

The science that proves that vaccines injure humans is already on the package inserts found with each vaccine, in the files at the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System and on the website at www.nvic.org, the National Vaccine Information Center, run by Barbara Loe Fisher, a parent of a vaccine injured son who is respected enough by the vaccine machine to be a consumer member on their panel. If the Vaccine Safety Study raw data had actually been made public and not pretend made public and covered up, it would prove that thimerosal causes autism If Generation Rescue’s phone survey of vaccinated versus unvaccinated would be expanded into a full blown study, it would be very clear that vaccines may cause autism. Why is it so difficult for the vast majority of the public to realize that vaccines are just another medical product that could potentially be injurious? You don’t think Vioxx should have been recalled? I pray that the non believers are not injured by their flu shots or Gardasil vaccines as they blindly accept their doctors’ recommendations for medical treatment (that provides the doctor with profit) without adequately researching the risk benefit ratio of the possible side effects of that decision. We must all come together as a nation to demand more oversight and accountability for all medical products including vaccines to achieve the best level of public health.

By Lucas McCarty

March 21, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Joe Harris, that’s a strawman: no one claimed anyone ever ‘grows out of autism’. They said that Autistics naturally improve.

Kanner reported on his initial patients; those described as the most severely affected all developed into able adults. The few that did not were actually quite high functioning but were written off anyway and stuck in institutions. Institutions themselves are implicated in causing cognitive disintergration in Autistic patients.

Kanner’s findings that Autistic children develop into more able Autistic adults have always been replicated and if you do a PubMed search for ‘Autistic intelligence’ you will find many studies investigating the unique way Autistics learn and develop, which is not based on strict mile-stones.

This is certainly not new info. Autistic self-advocates have been pointing it out for years whilst the loud shrill voices of parents blanked them out and denied they existed.

Suska, A search for ‘Frank Engly’ among indexed journals brings back 0 results. Is he retired? When was his last paper?

By david nisenbaum

March 21, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

when will the government wake up? Vaccines compromise immune systems and from one generation to the next there are many environmentlally influenced changes in people’s immunoligical functions due to genetic mutations. Some of which are certainly immunization linked while others may be dietary or envronmentalll linked. Just study anthrological evolurion of scitzophrenia (sp) in England and wheat consumption. This one case is not one in a million it may vary well be one in 156. The issue is not every child with autism has both parents well trained in the medical profession so they dont have the access to medical evaluation and testing that the test case had.

I am not against vaccines only against the manner in which they are delivered. Certainly many vaccines due more harm than good and should be eliminated but ther most likely are about 5 out of about 28? or so that could show true worth.

By Lucas McCarty

March 21, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Some confusing colour-use on this site, got names muddled up. My previous post was addressed to UnderTheRader rather than Joe Harris, and my second bit addressed to Joe Harris rather than Suska.

By Suska

March 21, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Lucas McCarty,

Huh? who is Frank Engly??? I don’t think I mentioned him.

By Suska

March 21, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Lucas McCarty,

Never mind about my last post then, it’s all good. I’m still curious about who Frank Engly is though.

By maxwell105

March 21, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

In 2005, Burbacher et al. published a paper in Environmental Health Perspectives. The study showed that when primates were injected with thimerosal they retained more than twice as much inorganic mercury in their brains when compared to primates that were fed an equal dose of methylmercury. Inorganic mercury, or ionic mercury, which is the charged species, cannot leave the brain. It remains trapped in the brain where it can wreak havoc, causing a cascade of inflammatory events which ultimately result in brain cell destruction. This study proved that thimerosal is extremely toxic to the brain, even more toxic than methylmercury.

The puzzling thing is that the CDC and other thimerosal defenders never talk about the Burbacher study. They seem to have no desire to remove thimerosal from the vaccines which still contain it, including most flu shots, tetanus shots, meningitis vaccine, and Japanese encephalitis vaccine. And many others contain trace amounts. The CDC loses credibility when they seem only to be focused on disproving a link between autism and thimerosal instead of recognizing thimerosal as a potential dangerous neurotoxin and trying to work to have it completly removed from all vaccines.

The CDC needs to quit trying to protect the pharmaceutical industry and start protecting American citizens.

By SmellyTerror

March 21, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

MORONS.

My tribe sacrifices a virgin every night, so that the sun will come up in the morning. If we didn’t, it wouldn’t. Proof? Every night we sacrifice a virgin, and every morning the sun comes up.

Autism occurs in early childhood. It occurs in early childhood for kids who aren’t vaccinated, just as it does for kids who are vaccinated. But hang on! Vaccination occurs in early childhood too, doesn’t it? So, gasp vaccination must cause autism, right? Oh wait, but what about those non-vaccinated kids? bit of a flaw in the theory, no?

Might as well argue that starting on solid foods or wearing shoes causes autism. Hell, some do.

AUTISM RATES IN NON-VACCINATED KIDS IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS FOR VACCINATED KIDS. THE REMOVAL OF THIMEROSAL IN MULTIPLE COUNTRIES HAS MADE NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER TO AUTISM RATES.

YOU ARE WRONG. ARGUMENT OVER.

I understand that you want something to blame. What has happened to you and your kids is horrible and is not fair. But it’s not the vaccine. It’s not. And kids are dead right now, DEAD, because their parents avoided vaccines for fear of a boogey-man.

Let me be plain: avoiding vaccines KILLS children. This is not hyperbole, this is verifiable fact. So you’d better be damn sure you have the right of it to be telling people to avoid vaccination. You had better have something more convincing than feeble conspiracy theories and completely independant correlations.

However good it might feel to assign blame, your actions are leading to the preventable deaths of children. I’m sure the profanity filter will block any attempt I have to explaining further the depths of my contempt for such a self-obsessed attitude.

By wow

March 21, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Kids Doc, no offense taken. :)And although I do frequent Respectful Insolence, I can’t claim to be Orac.

@Bob, I’m an immunologist. I guarantee I know and understand a heck of a lot more about how the immune system works than what you gather from a single Nobel speech. The vast majority of adverse vaccine reactions are not anaphylactic, although that is possible. What point were you trying to make exactly? Let me know if you have questions.

By maxwell105

March 21, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Smellyterror,

You are the moron in this argument. There has never been a study showing that vaccinated children have the same rate of autism as unvaccinated children. Gerberding promised to do a study like this, but has reneged on that promise. The only study like this that I know of that has been done was done by generation rescue last year. It was a phone survey and it showed a 200%+ increase in autism in the vaccinated group. This is probably info you selectively missed. Quit trying to use scare tactics and look at the facts. FACT: Mercury is a known neurotoxin. FACT: Thimerosal is mercury. FACT: Thimerosal has NOT been removed from all vaccines. FACT: All the studies which supposedly prove thimerosal doesn’t cause autism were fatally flawed. FACT: Thimerosal-containing flu shots are now recommended for all stages of pregnancy. FACT: Thimerosal injection via vaccines causes mercury to accumulate in the brain.

Go crawl back in the hellhole you came from and stop trying to cover for your buddies at the CDC and BigPharma.

GET THE MERCURY OUT NOW!

By Heidi

March 21, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

to Smelly Terror: (that name is hot btw) What are you referencing when you state that the rate of autism is exactly the same for vaccinated and unvaccinated? I am unaware of any formal study even though us vaccine safety tin foil hat wearing types have been begging for one for years. In the words of Kirby, “you are either grossly misinformed or lying.”

By wow

March 21, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

maxwell105, I suppose you think a phone survey is an adequate way to assess a medical condition? And a survey company the appropriate investigator for determining linkage between vaccines and autism?

By maxwell105

March 21, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

wow, No. My point is that a good study like that has never been done. That’s the point. The generation rescue study is only a curiosity. It is curious because it makes one think about why the medical establishment has not and will not do a study comparing vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. That’s the point. The point is not that a phone survey is valid or invalid. My question to the CDC is: What are you afraid of?

By SmellyTerror

March 21, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

You do know that the US isn’t the only nation on earth, don’t you? Epidemiological studies in several nations have shown absolutely no link. Google it.

If thimerosal caused autism we’d see a sharp decline in autism where it’s been removed. But we haven’t.

For the “authorities” to be hiding this would require a conspiracy by every nation and every large health organisation on earth. And you have a single “phone survey” against the overwhelming support of the evidence?

Honestly, what would it take to convince you? Every one of many, MANY studies that reject your position is rejected by you, the rare data point that mingth back you up is uncritically embraced with open arms. What possible evidence could convince you you’re wrong?

From this page (where references are given): http://www.ncirs.usyd.edu.au/facts/f-mmr.html

The following are summaries of some of the studies performed:

� In 1999, a large population-based study in England looked at the vaccination status of 498 children with autism and control subjects without autism and found no link between the timing of vaccination with MMR and the onset of autism.

� In 2004 another English study looked at the rates of autism in 5,500 children who attended GPs and were immunized with MMR, and found no evidence to suggest a link between the vaccine and autism.

� A study of more than 440,000 Danish children vaccinated in the 1990’s compared with 96,000 unvaccinated children provided strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR causes autism or autistic spectrum disorder.

� A large study in Finland followed almost 600,000 children for 20 years after MMR vaccination and found no evidence for MMR vaccine-associated autism or other neurological disorders.

� A study of the rates of IBD and autism among 6100 French school-aged children found no association between MMR and these diseases.

� A study in Sweden in 1998 looking at the prevalence of autism over 10 years found no change after the introduction of MMR vaccine.

� Two independent groups of researchers in the UK performed epidemiologic studies to determine if there was an association between bowel symptoms /autism, and MMR. Both studies found no evidence for gastrointestinal problems being linked to developmental regression or to MMR vaccination.

� Additional studies in the US and UK found no correlation between trends in early childhood MMR immunisation rates and trends in autism diagnosis. For example, a study done in California, showed that although rates of autism have gone up by 373% over 15 years, the increase in the number of children immunized with MMR has only increased by 14% in that time.

� A study in the United States looked at patients with IBD born over a 32 year period, found that vaccination with MMR or other measles-containing vaccines, or the timing of vaccination early in life, did not increase the risk for IBD.

� At least 3 laboratory-based studies by different research groups using technical methods similar to those in the Uhlmann study, found no evidence of measles virus in the bowel specimens of patients with IBD.

What have expert reviews concluded?

A review by the World Health Organization concluded that current scientific data do not permit a causal link to be drawn between the measles virus and autism or IBD. An extensive review published in 2004 by the Institute of Medicine, an independent expert body in the United States, has concluded that there is no association between the MMR vaccine and the development of autism.

Reviews by the American Academy of Pediatrics, The British Chief Medical Officer, the UK Medical Research Council, Canadian experts, and numerous other scientific experts have stated that there is there is no link between autism or IBD and the measles vaccine.

By SmellyTerror

March 21, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

…and the suggestion that I must be in the pay of Big Pharma to support good science over hysterical idiocy is absolutely idiotic, and just underlines the depth of your bias. I might as well accuse you all of being baby-eating monsters, who are just trying to kill kids because you hate them. Not terribly helpful or pertinent to the argument.

For the record I’m in law enforcement and my brother is autistic. Not that it matters.

By maxwell105

March 21, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

Smellyboy, you are clearly on pharma payroll or a CDC goon.

All these studies show signs of data manipulation and they are all fatally flawed by extreme conflicts of interest. For example, the silly Denmark study you rely on was funded by the largest vaccine manufacturer in Denmark. The authors were mostly employees of that vaccine maker and many of the authors were CDC insiders. These kinds of conflicts of interest should not be tolerated, but they are overlooked or ignored. The CDC or vaccine manufacturers have been the controlling authority on each and every one of these ridiculous studies. They are not worth the paper they are written on.

By clsr

March 21, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

M, you’re a complete idiot! “vaccines DO NOT cause autism” just “autism-like symptoms” right? show me the studies M, show me the studies that state that mercury IN ANY FORM is safe for my child! kidsdoc, you’re a pharma-w*******, there’s little doubt about that. why did the CDC mandate the flu vaccine at the same time that they “suggested” that thimerosal be removed from the other childhood vaccines? that’s criminal as far as I’m concerned and at least disingenuous. lets paraphrase what gerberding was saying and thinking; we’re going to remove the mercury from the shots (thinking; we’re gonna ask the pharmaceutical companies to PLEASE remove the bad ol’ mercury as sson as they think it would be economically feasible). you won’t have to worry about America’s vaccine program being dangerous any longer, (thinking; yeah you won’t have to THINK about it, it’ll be there however…as soon as you start gettin these little rugrats their flu vaccines). it’s really pathetic…how can anyone on here say that mercury is not damaging to the immune system and not know right away that they’re going to hell?

By Asplomat

March 22, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

One of the things that consistently interests me about this debate is the seeming lack of concern that antivaccionationist supporters seem to display towards the financial stakeholders in their side of the debate, whilst vocally denouncing individuals and companies they believe to have financial stakes under the current state of affairs.

From their heroes, such as David Kirby - an individual profiting off antivaccionationist largesse if ever there was one, Mark and David Geier -paid expert witnesses in numerous trials, as well as the peddlers of a dubious quack cure involving chemical castration drugs, numerous chelationists and DAN! doctors, individuals involved in ongoing litigation with Big Pharma….

The financial motivation on the side of the antivaxxers seems just as evident as it does on the side of big pharma - the big losers in this argument seem to be actual autistic children - with research funds being diverted to causation rather than improved treatment which could be of benefit to current and future autistics, as opposed to causation research, which has minimal if any lifetime benefits - especially when it is considered that the evidence produced of the therapeutic evidence of chelation is through anecdote alone, which is subject to confirmation bias - qualitative and quantitative studies suggesting that it is in fact a dangerous practice with no benefit to an autistic subject.

Essentially, antivax advocates have no business taking the high moral ground - yes, Big Pharma has been responsible over the years for some dealings of questionable morality, but parents and other advocates are guilty of equally egregious dealings

By Denise

March 22, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

Vaccines do not cause autism. There is a very large body of scientific evidence that backs up that assertion, and there is not even one shred of credible evidence to the contrary.

If the above staement is true, I want to know who did the studies and who PAID for them.

I am referred to as a mercury mom and I have begun to wear the label PROUDLY. Until someone can tell me how my beautiful, fun loving, outgoing, cuddly little boy suddenly became untouchable and unsmiling, I will believe that it was caused by his booster shots. To kids doc - each child is an individual. Just because 1 child does well with the vaccination schedule, doesn’t mean they all will. I have 4 boys. My oldest did not get a proper diagnosis for 8 1/2 yrs. He is Asperger with ADHD. My second son is “normal”. My third son is ADHD with Oppositional Defiant Disorder ( more neurological disorders) and my last son is “normal”. They are all separate individuals and their bodies reacted differently with their shots, or so I believe. I am not a medical professional and I have not blamed my doctors. However, I do believe that I was NOT fully informed about the side effects of vaccinations.
Everyone must take their heads out of the sand. Honest studies need to be conducted and paid for by individuals with NO connections to the pharmecuticals. In the mean time, I will continue to tell every new Mom to ask that vaccines be spread apart and not given all at once. If I had known all this, maybe my 20 yr old would have remained the outgoing, fun-loving child he once was and maybe I would have been able to hug him at his graduation. Do you have any idea what it is like to have to cuddle with your child so he will go to sleep and then one day, not even be able to hold his hand or brush his hair out of his eyes because he cringes at your touch? Until all have seen the things parents of autistic children have seen and experienced the things we have experienced with our children and honest studies with honest answers are produced, DON’T tell us we are wrong or crazy! I believe in vaccinations (not all of them as I had measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox as a child) just not the schedule set forth by our government that has continually refused to give us HONEST answers but have been very giving of derrogatory labels.

By Suska

March 22, 2008 1:52 AM | Link to this

maxwell105,

Should we not trust the, WHO, FDA CDC, AAP, ect. that tell us vaccination is safe and with little risk (none causing autism)??? Because if this is your proposition then we are no longer discussing a health issue, but dealing with an underlying antigovernment/antiestablishment one. Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with discussing such matters when it is clear that that is indeed what we are talking about.

Maxwell105 said:

“All these studies show signs of data manipulation”

I’m going to need some hard core evidence to believe this one.

By Dad of 2 autistic girls

March 22, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

I have lost all faith in the CDC and it’s “Federal Connection”. Both of my daughters began exhibiting symptoms within hours of receiving vaccinations. Unfortunately, the medical powers that be, still think we’re all simple-minded enough to believe their same old song, singing, “It’s all just a big coincidence.” If in fact, vaccines are as generally safe as the government has been asserting all these years, why did the Federal Government set up a “National Vaccine Injuries Compensation Program” as far back as 1988?! Do you think they may have already known what we are just finding out? That vaccines aren’t all that safe? I mean, you don’t set up such a big slush fund for compensation purposes without a valid reason. At least, when Noah was building his own Ark, he didn’t lie about why, when asked. Too bad the government didn’t better prepare for the deluge of “Big Coincidences” between vaccines and Autism. Before the needle- :) / After the needle- :(

By Roxane

March 22, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

There is good science refuting the anti-vaccinationists. Period.

I would like to see studies that determine if concentrated environmental contaminents in the food chain, water supply, etc. can explain the rise in autism rates.

I would like parents to have a better understanding of neurodevelopment and research methodology.

There are a lot of people making a lot of money off of desperate parents trying to give their children the best life possible. Anecdotal evidence is not science. Parents need to hold these folks as acountable as they hold the CDC, FDA and big pharma.

By Just Sayin

March 22, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Wow there seems to be alot of venom in these messages — mostly from people who seem to have an axe to grind. Are they acting from a guilty conscience because their child has autism and they need someone or something to blame? So it would seem.

Why has this issue of mercury and other stuff in vaccines just come up now? Hasn’t it been in the vaccines for decades?

In my opinion, it is highly irresponsible for a person to not vaccinate their children, just like not using a child safety seat in a car. You might not have an accident in the car that could kill or maim the child, but who wants to take that chance?

By Up To HERE Mom

March 22, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

I really take offense to some of the statements on here about “Autistic Parents” as to how we need to stop complaining and start doing! I believe this was to place our opinions and that is indeed what I did. It is also my belief in what we had experienced. Our son is in a study in a top university in our state at the present time and is in the proper school programs, etc. So,,,,we are taking action, took us a while since the wonderful medical community took their sweet a** time giving him a correct diagnosis. But of course, can’t say anything against them!! I firmly believe in vaccines as long as thermiosol is taken out, and, no, it is not out of all vaccines, last I heard, it was still present in some. Those of us who have done our homework know that mercury is present in fillings and some of us who have certain blood types had Rho-Gam shots while pregnant with our autistic children, which of course contained thermiosol!
So, you need to understand that we have every right to vent, and no, we are not like a cult with your words bouncing off us. You have no right to say such things about people you know nothing about. While vaccines may not be the only culprit in the cause of autism, it very well did play a part in the cause of our son’s.

By Janet

March 22, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Roxane, here’s a study for you: http://www.uthscsa.edu/hscnews/singleformat.asp?newID=1412

Study suggests link between environmental mercury, autism

Posted: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 � Volume: XXXVIII� Issue: 12

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E-Mail to a Friend

Contact: Will Sansom Phone: (210) 567-2579 E-mail: sansom@uthscsa.edu

A study by researchers at The University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio reveals a multiple-digits increase in the rate of autism for every 1,000 pounds of mercury released environmentally in Texas counties.

The study does not prove causation of autism by mercury, researchers are quick to point out.

The study compared mercury totals reported for 2001 in the 254 Texas counties to the rate of autism and special education services in nearly 1,200 Texas school districts. The districts, which range from urban to small metro to rural, enroll 4 million Texas children.

�The main finding is that for every 1,000 pounds of environmentally released mercury, we saw a 17 percent increase in autism rates,� said lead author Raymond F. Palmer, Ph.D., associate professor in the Health Science Center�s department of family and community medicine.

Large-scale mercury exposures such as accidental spills long have been implicated with developmental disabilities, but this study is among the first to examine the relationship between potentially chronic, low-dose mercury exposure and a developmental disorder such as autism, Dr. Palmer said.

Mercury is the third-most frequently found toxic substance nationwide, after arsenic and lead. Coal-burning power plants, which supply energy to cities and generally are in close proximity to population centers, release more mercury than any other source in the United States. Texas is fourth among the states in reported mercury releases, after California, Oregon and West Virginia.

Using statistical modeling, the researchers showed that increases in the rate of special education services were associated with higher mercury release levels. However, �it is the increase in autism that explains this relationship� in Texas, Dr. Palmer said.

The authors cautioned that the study is an ecological investigation based on county level and school district data. This type of study does not lend itself to interpretation at the level of the individual. This is only a first step in identifying areas for further investigation. The study also does not assess changes in mercury levels over time as a predictor of rates of change in developmental disorders. While the current study precludes causal interpretation, the team is working on a second report that will investigate the longitudinal association between mercury and autism rates.

Autism is a developmental disorder that varies in severity in individuals and is characterized by impaired ability to engage in normal social behavior and by behavior patterns such as repetitive motions and sounds. Autism is estimated to occur in as many as 1 in 200 children and is reported to be rising in prevalence, although statistics vary.

The study authors note that the new research �has implications for toxic substance regulation and prevention policies. The effects of differing state policies regarding toxic release of mercury on the incidence of developmental disorders should be investigated.�

The study is published in the peer-reviewed journal Health & Place, an Elsevier Ltd publication. Co-authors are Claudia S. Miller, M.D., from the department of family and community medicine at the Health Science Center; Zachary Stein from San Antonio; Stephen Blanchard, Ph.D., of the department of sociology at Our Lady of the Lake University; and David Mandell, Ph.D., of the University of Pennsylvania�s Center for Mental Health Policy and Services Research.

�printer friendly format… �e-mail to a friend… �view more articles by issue#… �search articles by keywords…

By open2answers

March 22, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

M and others who continue to sling mud:

The problem with “treating this with the contempt it deserves” is that it serves no purpose other than allow you to vent and preach to the choir. Intelligent people who are sincerely questioning these issues will ignore you as hopelessly emotional and biased, no matter what side you are on. Meanwhile, you will have missed the oppty to convey your p.o.v. in a convincing way. Unless of course you are simply rallying your own troops, which is fine, but it just seems you’d be better off to spend your time trying to be persuasive to those who don’t yet hold your beliefs. People on both sides are convinced that they have ample evidence. What else is new? The argument’s not over until you’ve persuaded those who question your beliefs, not just those who already share them. And to those who think the answer is to simply force people to inject what they see as toxins into their children, wake up. That will cause an uprising the likes of which you probably can’t imagine. No matter how wrong (or worse) you think they are, these people are determined, organized and connected to one another beyond your wildest dreams and they do do their homework. If you feel the vaccine program and lives are in jeapordy, you’d better find a way to communicate with them.

By Teresa Conrick

March 22, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Thank you David Kirby for not stopping until all avenues have been explored, exhumed, and exposed in the name of the autism/vaccine connection. No surprise that the attack dogs are on you and many others here. Things are heating up and I am sure they will only get nastier. Their sensational drama vs factual and empathetic reasoning is not new. Onward we go-

see my new youtube re the attempts at denial- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJICZ4IHWU#GU5U2spHI_4

By mno

March 22, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Is anybody else on this list old enough to remember when illnesses like measles, chicken pox and mumps were considered a normal part of childhood - and nature’s way of helping to build a strong immune system? While unpleasant, they are rarely serious - much less fatal - under conditions of good hygiene. I caught the first two, along with many of my first- and second-grade classmates. Nobody died and our generation was much healthier than today’s over-vaccinated and immune-compromised youngsters.

I also had a handful of childhood immunizations: smallpox, tetanus, diptheria and rubella, and then a booster at age 7. That’s all we got back then. There was no autism, asthma, ADHD, food allergies, or diabetes in our elementary school. One boy had a congenital heart defect, and a Down’s child lived across the street. That was it.

Today’s children have had dozens of shots loaded with toxins and viruses by the age of two; the onslaught starts at birth. And all of the above problems, and more, are now rampant. The Orwellian “well baby” program ostensibly designed to create “herd immunity” has instead ushered in a generation of profoundly unhealthy Americans.

By Judy

March 22, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

The messages the public has received about autism often appear to be contradictory. On one hand parents and the public are told there is no known cause or cure for autism. On the other hand we are to believe concerns from some who live with autism on a daily basis have no validity. Since we do not know what causes autism, our society can ill afford to rule out anything that may either cause autism or increase the risk to our children...regardless of how ridiculous the theory may sound to some. At one time in our history, physicians and nurses who dared stop to wash their hands between treating patients were accused of being overzealous as well. We simply did not know the implications such a seemingly small action carried. As a health professional and the grandmother of a wonderful child with autism, I watched as his little body was injected with three to five injections at a time. His mother and I wondered if this was not requiring too much of an infantile

immune system and a tiny body. His mom’s questions were dismissed.
As so many others report, our grandchild suffered an extreme reaction and high fever to one set of injections in particular. It was not long after that the little one who waved “byebye” and blew kisses to us withdrew into his own place. I recognize some parents may appear over zealous in their push to prevent another child from experiencing autism. Can you blame them? They know the true cost. It is time for the unkind verbage to stop. Our children and grandchildren are suffering. At the risk of sounding like a political candidate, only when we join together and work diligently toward the same end can this epidemic be stopped. I believe our children, grandchildren and their children are depending on us to put our egos and fears on hold.

By dyson

March 23, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

30 years ago there were fewer vaccines, but they were “dirty” vaccines, with each one (especially smallpox and diphtheria) responsible for exposing the infant to hundreds of different immunogens and antigen challenges.

Despite the increase in number of injections given currently, there are fewer antigens, contaminants and “toxins” present by a factor of around 10. Can anyone explain to me how giving 10 times fewer the number of challenges to the immune system is supposed to “overwhelm it”, as the antivaccinationists ignorantly claim?

By Teresa Conrick

March 23, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

To dyson-

Your “ignorant” wording is telling. Here is a recent news piece you may have missed.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=200802281A10_spanc75322

Seizures rise with combined vaccine

by: AP Wire Services 2/28/2008 12:00 AM

ATLANTA (AP) — Children suffered higher rates of fever-related convulsions when they received a Merck & Co. combination vaccine instead of two separate shots, a study presented Wednesday states.

The results prompted a federal advisory panel on vaccines to water down their preference for the combo vaccine ProQuad, which protects against measles, mumps and rubella as well as chickenpox.

In the study of children ages 12 months through 23 months, the seizure rate was twice as high in toddlers who received ProQuad compared with those who had one shot for chickenpox and one for the three other diseases.

The risk translates to about one extra case of convulsion for every 2,000 doses of ProQuad, said Dr. Nicola Klein, who lead the federally funded study. She presented the data at a meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.

The study focused on children who develop fevers and then go into convulsions — an occurrence that frightens parents but usually has no lingering consequences. There were no deaths in the new study.

ProQuad was licensed in 2005. It has been in extremely short supply since last year, when Merck suspended its production because of manufacturing problems. Merck expects to resume ProQuad production next year.

The panel previously had taken a position that they preferred that doctors give children as few needle sticks as possible and that ProQuad is preferable to giving separate shots.

It voted Wednesday to amend that, to say that they’re no longer voicing a preference for ProQuad over the separate shots.

By Teresa Binstock

March 23, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Findings in pharmacogenomics are allowed to influence specifics of cancer treatment but, circa 2008, a one-size-fits-all vaccination policy remains enforced.

Gregory A. Poland, M.D., is a Mayo researcher. He and colleagues have published numerous findings about gene alleles and their effects upon an individual’s ability or inability to produce titers to vaccinal antigens. Needless to say, their research and similar studies by others help us understand the genetic basis for inter-individual variation in response to vaccinations (1).

Furthermore, the amounts of thimerosal and aluminum injected during mandatory vaccinations incidents remain extremely high (2-3); and the use of multiple vaccinations during one incident and the policy of recommending the vaccinating of sick children are problematic (4). So long as the CDC’s Julie Gerberding and the CDC’s ACIP serve as virtual representatives for vaccine manufacturers, respect for vaccination mandates will continue to decline.

1) Vaccination policy lags behind vaccination science. http://tinyurl.com/329whg 2) Thimerosal amounts (in Pediatrics) http://tinyurl.com/2l9fck 3) Aluminum quantities, by Sears, MD http://tinyurl.com/2wnw6o 4. Citationed paper by Blaylock, MD http://tinyurl.com/2mqksl

By mno

March 23, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Actually, Dyson, I was thinking more like 60 years ago, before Giant Pharma exerted the iron grip over R&D, production and regulation it has since acquired. Were the vaccines of the 1940’s cumulatively “dirtier” than those administered during the 1970’s or today? I wouldn’t bet the rent on it.

True today’s children are exposed to far more background environmental pollution than we were back then, and the womb is no longer a safe place because of Mother’s forced exposure to the same toxins. In a sense kids are now born at a health disadvantage. All of which affects the total picture.

But there still must be a trigger. And the fact remains that during the 40’s and 50’s, normally-developing toddlers didn’t suddenly regress into autism following a round of shots. Childhood auto-immune conditions now rampant were virtually unheard of. And I will take the eyewitness reports of many thousands of parents over any paper “proof” the vaccine apologists care to gin up.

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