Opinion Talk

By Copyleft

March 11, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

I hope so. Religion doesn’t HAVE to be a bad thing, as long as you don’t take it too seriously. Americans seem stuck in an all-or-nothing mode.

By ctmoore

March 11, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

You cannot take Christianity “too seriously”. If you believe the Bible, you believe that the penalty for non-belief is eternal and severe. How can you not take this seriously? It is nothing to be taken lightly. If you don’t take it seriously, then you obviously don’t believe. Better to admit non-belief than to deceive yourself and ignore your need for repentance.

By religiousmiddle

March 12, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this

If I hear the US is a Christian country one more time, I may scream. Nothing is furthest from the truth. We have sold our souls for the almighty dollar. Our “christian” president and his people have basically declared war on the poor with their bad budget priorities. The poor was the most important group to Jesus and until we remember that we can not call ourselves a Christian country.

By Eddy

March 12, 2008 7:45 AM | Link to this

There are millions of believers! Most of media portrays those who do believe in a very negative or sarcastic way so don’t immediately jump to the conclusion that we are a nation of non-blievers. For the secularists, it is your right to not believe. Sad nevertheless but your right to choose. Continue to whistle loudly as you walk by the cemetary.

By Copyleft

March 12, 2008 7:58 AM | Link to this

It’s the “missionary” urge that’s the problem… most people are content to let others believe whatever they want, as long as they don’t push it at the rest of us.

Unfortunately, that’s not enough for some zealots, who give the rest of Christianity a bad name. No, they have to “save” us and shower us with constant mouthings of pity and contempt… and then wonder why we’re not flocking to their cause!

Jesus, save me from your followers.

By Ron

March 12, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this

The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion,but it doesn’t guarantee freedom from religion,and that’s a weak point.The Muslim religion is swiftly undermining western civilization with it’s demands for religious exclusions.Each other religion in turn makes demands on it’s followers that are anti freedoms.The Pope just added seven more reasons for a believer to be sent straight to Hell.It certainly isn’t easy to be non-religious in today’s society.It’s sort of like being a Viet Nam Vet.Best not to mention it.

By GaLiberal

March 12, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

Religion has killed more people and suppressed advancement than all wars and plagues combined. The Iraq war is a perfect example of how religion is used as the excuse for one group to exert control over another. Look no further than George Bush. Bush ran his election campaign on him being a Christian and, therefore, a better human being than them godless liberals like Al Gore. Bush and his cronies called Hussein ‘an evil person’ and it was their ‘moral obligation’ to remove him and liberate the Iraqi people. This makes Iraq just another holy war. Of course, all the good little goose-stepping conservative Christians cheered for him. Thank God I’m an atheist and can think for myself.

When you vote Rethuglicon, you vote against your own best interests. And Bush using religion to justify the murder of thousands of Iraqis is living proof.

By Ray

March 12, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Organized religion has been responsible for the killing of more people in the last few hundred years than all of the wars, cancer deaths, auto accidents and famines combined. From the Druids in England, to the Catholics in Europe to the Muslims in present day, we have been subject to unknown slaughter. Can you imagine what must have gone on with little boys in the Catholic church before accountability?

By sam jam

March 12, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

What do you mean? I thought everybody believed in the Great Spaghetti Monster In The Sky. Afterall, if you dont, you’ll boil in a swirling cauldron of spicy aromatic sauce for eternity.

You know this is true. It’s been said, therefore it is.

Please, do not whistle past the graveyard any longer oh great nation of poor non-believers. TGSMITS is a vengeful being and will smite you down for your insolence.

By BGB

March 12, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Some of us (myself included) are indeed shy to admit that we don’t believe in God. Especially here in the south, you are automatically deemed evil and branded as a demon, or are relentlessly recruited to the faith. People forget that if your parents (mine took me to church every Sunday) raise you with good morals and values, that you will continue to know the difference between right and wrong, even if you abandon a particular faith.

I went to church for my entire childhood life, and unfortunately, it just never “took”. As much as I studied and went to church, deep down, I just never believed a word of it. You can’t force someone to believe something that they just don’t believe. Just like I can’t convince you that God is really a flying spaghetti monster.

Most agnostics and atheists are not bad people, we just don’t believe what you believe. Most of us have the utmost respect for religion.

Try to remember (or better yet, re-read) the Parable of the Good Samaritan—he was absolutely NOT a Christian!

By BGB

March 12, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Ray, that’s funny, we posted about TGSMITS at the same time. =)

By jongregory

March 12, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

Undeniably, the US is a Christian nation, specifically a Protestant Puritan nation (girls and men burned and hung for being withches(still unproven), 600,000 dead by internecine civil war among puritans in the north and south, genocidal protestant murder of 10 millions American indigenous, slavery( Baptist, Presbyterian, and Methodist sects created to continue segregation and slavery, burning of convents, hospitals, schools and laws from Oregon to the east outlawing non-protestant schools, and of course the proliferation and growth of ignorant, sub literate fundamentalist evangelical telecrooks.

Or self-appointed pentecostal founders, apostles, bishops accused of raping and drugging their female parishoners in Dallas and Houston, e.g., Bishop T. Arbuckle, aka Rev. Freak.

Or the KKK who went to each and every protestant minister in every town and recruited leaders and Grand Dragons from the preacher, brother gene pool.

Finally, let’s not forget www.stopBaptistPredators.com and it’s 10s of thousands of victims.

BTW, Catholic laity and clergy made the world safe for all of the above.

By Sam

March 12, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Blogs about religion and faith seem to always result in so much cynicism and anger. It’s a shame because my faith is such a positive to thing to me. The story of a king that died for his servants and showed us how to live the abundant life is the source of my optimism and motivation.

By MADMOMMY

March 12, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

WOW, the hate on this blog just astounds me. I feel that as a nation we have slowly started to move away from religion and that asking this question you need to think about what age ranges you are asking this questions to. The bible is either all true or it is all a lie.
To really answer this question you might want to read the book Un Christian by David Kinnaman. It takes years of research on what the current and upcoming generations really think about Christianity.
It is a great read and worth your time.

By MADMOMMY

March 12, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

WOW, the hate on this blog just astounds me. I feel that as a nation we have slowly started to move away from religion and that asking this question you need to think about what age ranges you are asking this questions to. The bible is either all true or it is all a lie.
To really answer this question you might want to read the book Un Christian by David Kinnaman. It takes years of research on what the current and upcoming generations really think about Christianity.
It is a great read and worth your time.

By John

March 12, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Living here in the south I can’t say I see any diminishing of faith, but from what I’ve read, as a nation, our religious beliefs are becoming more fluid. I am not an atheist but even though I was raised in the Christian faith, I no longer believe it. Some of that is because the message seems more about vengenance than love and compassion, but I’m also a rational person…organized religion is, by it’s nature, irrational. So, I’m not religious, but I do seek spirtuality. I believe most people do also. I believe there a spiritual dimension to the universe but I can’t possibly know what it is, nor do I need to. To assume otherwise is just arrogant.

By Brain

March 12, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

I love how all the atheist to point fingers at christians for things that happened hundreds of years ago. It’s like blaming all white people for slavery. Makes no sense. Fact is, NO one is better than anyone else and we will all be judged in the end. Liberals hate christians because we disagree with them on just about every issue. Feed the poor is one of the biggest things that I see liberals try to throw in christians faces. Yet, I have never met a liberal who gave anything to anyone else other than an std.

Copyleft, I see you on this website and wonder if you actually have a job? Or a life for that matter. You are filled with so much hatred for a lot of different people. You really need to seek medical help.

By Jen

March 12, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

John you just described me almost to a T. I grew up Catholic but now simply seek spirituality without trying to define it.

Even though I grew up in a very devout family I always thought that religion was so…man-made

By Edward

March 12, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

It is always interesting when someone like John makes the claim that anyone who disagrees with him “is just arrogant”. Isn’t that a rather arrogant view in itself?

I hold the same view as Stephen Weinberg, who said,

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”

By BadOleBoys

March 12, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Every true believer knows his duty is to sign up and get over to Iraq. There’s work to be done over there. We don’t shoot first — we only defend ourselves against the aggressors, the invaders, the ones that don’t belong. That’s all.

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Perhaps for good people to do evil things takes more than religion. It may take faith. Faith that their religion will forgive their sins. Let us prey now and ask forgiveness when the time comes. For that time will come on judgment day — the day one is caught with one’s pants down in front of the wrong person. Let us hope that person is not a hypocrite for that person’s judgment day may bring down many a caster of stones — big stones, heavy stones, a multitude of stones, boulders….

By Jen

March 12, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Edward, John didn’t say that “anyone who disagrees with him “is just arrogant”. “

He said “believe most people do also. I believe there a spiritual dimension to the universe but I can’t possibly know what it is, nor do I need to. To assume otherwise is just arrogant.”

He was saying that he would be arrogant to assume he knows exactly what’s going on with spirituality.

And I will say that I find religion arrogant for the same reason. If God does exist as some sentient thing I think it’s pretty arrogant that us mere mortals could possibly define it perfectly and then take that around to be The Truth.

By Gigi R

March 12, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Perhaps our nation will come to the realization that our well-being, our economy and our future are in OUR hands, not the U.S. Government, not the U.S. President, and not even God (for the most part). “If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and turn from their sinful ways, then I will hear from Heaven and heal their land… (II Chronicles)” It’s true whether we choose to believe or not.

By John

March 12, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Brain,

You need to get one.

You Christians receive so much animosity because you are self-righteous, judgemental, and arrogant.

I imagine that the animosity will go away when Christians actually practice what they preach, stop cherry-picking the parts of the bible they agree with, and learn to live and let live.

Jews, Hindus, Budhists, and even American Muslims all seem to get this…why can’t you?

By Jen

March 12, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

LOL, OneForTheRoad, did you really mean to say “Let us PREY now…”???

By Copyleft

March 12, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Brain, you seem confused. For example, you set “Christian” and “liberal” at odds, when of course true Christians ARE liberals, doing what Jesus taught.

Of course, they bear no resemblance to many people who CLAIM to be Christian and yet consistently show contempt for the poor, hatred for gays, love for military invasions and occupations, desperate desire for material wealth, and ambition to set up an American Empire. They, obviously, aren’t Christians at all (though they THINK they are).

Faith can be a positive thing. But taken to extremes, you get televangelists and beheadings and planes flying into buildings.

As soon as your “god” tells you to destroy the nonbelievers—it’s time to get a new god. Humanity deserves better than this, and you’re being judged RIGHT NOW, in THIS life, by how you treat others.

By John

March 12, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Edward,

I didn’t say it was arrogant to disagree with me. I hold that it is arrogant to assume to know all the spiritual answers of the universe.

I believe that organized religion makes God in man’s image..not the other way around…and to do so brings him/her/it/whatever down to our imperfect level. I think the answers to our afterlife are beyond our comprehension…and that it is indeed arrogant to assume that we do comprehend something that is completely unknown.

By Truthman

March 12, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Good people know Bush/Cheney/Rice and the rest are not “children of peace.”

Good people know they are the embodiment of the antithesis of Jesus’ teachings…and David’s…and Mohammed…and Tao…and Shiva.

To promote war, to oppress the poor and to enrichen the wealthy are not the tenets - the dogma - of any of the world’s religions. Only the dogma of money-loving Philistines who shall get their 30 pieces of silver on their way to Hell!!

P.S. I’m a-theist!!

No God? Know Peace!!

By Jen

March 12, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Again, John, you seem to speak my thoughts, exactly.

By Truthman

March 12, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Oh goodness! THERE AIN’T NO AFTERLIFE!! JUST LIKE THEIR AIN’T NO SANTA AND THEIR AIN’T NO TOOTH FAIRIE!!

Live the life you have NOW, because it’s the only one you get.

Q: If Noah had two of each species on the Ark, where did he put the fish? I believe the fish would’ve survived “The Great Flood” just fine.

See how silly it all sounds when one thinks about it rationally?

By Jen

March 12, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Atheist? Or a theist?

I think I would be more of a theist than atheist. Though I am married to an antheist. We get along okay…after 10 years I’ll keep him.

By Brain

March 12, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Copyleft, Okay, I love how you are telling me what a true christian is. Libs love to do this kind of stuff. I’m born again and read my bible. Not as much as I need to I’ll admit. I attend a good church and try my hardest, with Gods help, to live my life right. You have no right to judge anyone. I give money all the time to church and to different charities. I’d love to hear what you are doing to help the poor. As far as gays go, the bible says it is WRONG. Not just one verse but several. Also, you are judging christians off of a president. How shallow is that? And remember, YOU ARE ALSO BEING JUDGED! Not by me but by God. You can take your double standards and go elsewhere.

By Peter

March 12, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Yes America has lost their Religion…..the number 1 Religion is Money…… Propagated by the Republican party in co-hoots with Corporate America.

But they …….the RIGHT Wing, use Religion as their tool to blind side Americans.

Fro instance Abortion is BAD, but invading other countries and killing thousands of innocent civilians is OK.

One cannot be pro life, and Pro WAR…..but that is NOT the case in the Right Wing Republican belief system.

killing is killing no matter what the age of the person being killed is !

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Jen at 10:59,

I sometimes use the word for effect. For example,

Poor, pitiful people praying for a pontificating Perdue to pounce proudly upon any preying porkers posited to proclaim profoundly a politicized policy to polarize.

Or,

The devout politician, looking over his flock, turned to his followers and proclaimed, “Let us prey”.

I aims to please or at least provoke a little thought.

By Mark

March 12, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Fairy tales are for children. Any adult that believes in an entity that doesn’t exist is of a child mentality. To be more specific, a retard. Churches are a waste of good real estate, which could be put to better use. Now all you illiterate lemmings , go grab your buybull, and leave the thinking people alone. And next time you talk to Jesus, tell him my lawn needs cutting.

By Eric

March 12, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

I agree with ReligiousMiddle: it is money - and with it the seduction of “progress” and a “newer and more is better” view of life - that is the real God for Americans. This means a greater distrust of economic policies that favor the wealthy, mass media, and consumer culture is needed rather than focusing on a distrust of religious authority.

By Jen

March 12, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Well, OneForTheRoad, I sort of thought it was deliberate given the context…

You know, there’s something about praying for rain no one mentions…eventually it WILL rain because this is the Earth and rain is a part of our ecosystem. However, since Sonny (cringe at the hokey name) “prayed” for it THAT’S why it rained. No, not because of the laws of Nature and probability. Nope. Prayer!

Sheesh - what a maroon!

By BadOleBoys

March 12, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Mark,

Heysuus said he can’t make it today. He wants to know if he can service your lawn on Friday instead. By the way, I do think you may wish to explore the brothers Grimm in a wee bit more detail.

By brock

March 12, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

I’m an atheist but really I’m not a bad person! And I don’t worship the devil since I don’t believe that either.

I think alot of the disparity between the number of people who claim they believe in god and those that attend church are people who think there’s no downside to saying they believe. They’re just trying to cover their rears. If I truly believed in a supreme being, I’d sure get off the couch for an hour each Sunday to worship my creator. As it is, I get yardwork done instead. I respect the people who actually put some effort into their faith.

By PS

March 12, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Religion is nothing but the money making end of faith. So kudos to those who seek their faith and spurn religion.

By PS

March 12, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Religion is nothing but the money making end of faith. So kudos to those who seek their faith and spurn religion.

By Mark

March 12, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Jen

What’s a “maroon”?

By PS

March 12, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Religion is nothing but the money making end of faith. So kudos to those who seek their faith and spurn religion.

By PS

March 12, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

Religion is nothing but the money making end of faith. So kudos to those who seek their faith and spurn religion.

By Brain

March 12, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

PS, You only have to click the post button once. NOT FOUR TIMES!!!!

By brock

March 12, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Mark, Jen is using the Bugs Bunny way of calling someone a moron. Sort of a kinder way of doing so.

By Governator

March 12, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Dis is what TI have to say about dis!

http://eeuauaughhhuauaahh.ytmnd.com/

By Jen

March 12, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Mark, come on! Don’t tell me you NEVER watched Bugs Bunny!!!!!

By Jen

March 12, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

As a 33 year old woman I watch waaaay too much Boomerang.

By Mark

March 12, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Jen

I did when I was a kid, but I don’t recall him ever saying that. It must have been because of my ADD…

By v

March 12, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Is it a sin to believe in an a single all powerful God and deny the convoluted idea that bad tidings are only the purview of his naughty lapdog?

That there is evil in the world is without question. That it stems from some origin other than the one-true source of everything is utter BS. Divine power is just like electricity, you can light your way by it or destroy a living organism with it. The choice is not preordained, but is ours to choose.

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

I had no idea what Boomerang was til I just Googled it. Bugs I know along with all the other daffy characters from sitting in front of the B&W boob tube in my earlier years.

By WW5

March 12, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

I AM A NON-BELIEVER - I DON’T BELIEVE A THING YOU PEOPLE REPORT

By Copyleft

March 12, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

You’re the one who is commanded not to judge others, Brain… and you seem to be having trouble with that task. For example, announcing that “The Bible says it’s wrong to be gay!” How is that YOUR business, and not God’s?

And no, I’m not judging Christian war-supporters by Bush’s actions… I’m judging them by their OWN actions, in supporting that war and slapping yellow-ribbon magnets on their SUVs rather than marching in the streets to put an end to this insane fiasco.

If there’s a God who wants to judge me for MY actions, I’m more than ready for that. But he’ll have to measure up to my standards in return.

By f(x) = 36x^2

March 12, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Just to clear up a few misconceptions that are being bandied about:

Secularist does not equal atheistic. Secularism is a belief that religion has no role is government. One can be both a secularist and a Believer. In fact, I suspect that you’ll find most secularists are, in fact, religious.

There were more girls molested by Catholic priests than boys. It’s popular to believe that only boys were molested because it invokes the ignorant belief that gay men routinely prey on small boys and conflates one mindless prejudice (hatred of Catholics) with another (hatred of gays).

Christian does not equal Conservative. Given the numbers of people in this country who claim to believe in one religion or another, and the substantial majority who name Christianity as that religion AND the number of people who identify themselves as liberal, it is illogial and mathematically impossible for all, or even most liberals to be non-Christians or atheists. Perhaps some of the anger being directed at the religious right would disappate if you would stop claiming that only you are Christian.

By Copyleft

March 12, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Well said, FX! The notion of “Christian conservative” being an automatic association has hung around for way too long.

(Especially given how much those ideologies conflict.)

By The truth

March 12, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Copyleft, Good to see you here doing your daily job of trashing people that don’t agree with you. Nice. What does your boss have to say about you wasting company time do this? Sounds like your hatred for the president outweighs your hatred for christians. Libs are all the same. Full of crap and ready to attack everyone that don’t agree with you. Nice. Now I fully understand why liberals are despised in this country. Libs like yourself preach the gospel of tolerance and yet are willing to kill anyone that disagrees with you. Good job.

By Brain

March 12, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Copyleft, How is that YOUR business, and not God’s?

Because the gay agenda is trying to force churches in to accepting gay marriage. That is why. You have a lot of hate built up in you. People like you end up going off the deep end. You seriously need some help dude.

By Mark

March 12, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Fairy tales are for children. Any adult that believes in an entity that doesn’t exist is of a child mentality. To be more specific, a retard. Churches are a waste of good real estate, which could be put to better use. Now all you illiterate lemmings , go grab your buybull, and leave the thinking people alone. And next time you talk to Jesus, tell him my lawn needs cutting.

By Copyleft

March 12, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

“Because the gay agenda is trying to force churches in to accepting gay marriage. That is why.”

Completely wrong, Brain. I haven’t seen ONE attempt to force churches to perform or accept gay marriages at all. The gay-marriage controversy revolves around LEGAL recognition of same-sex unions. Churches can do as they please. And where is this “hate” you keep claiming to see?

And to TheLies: I’d respond to your charges if you were coherent enough to actually make one. So far, nothing has shown up.

“Liberals are all the same”… obvious nonsense, as already pointed out. Some are conservative, and some follow Jesus.

“Liberals are despised in this country.” Ahh yes, that’s why we took over Congress in ‘06 and are turning out in record numbers to elect even more liberals this November.

(Libs are) “preach the gospel of tolerance and yet are willing to kill anyone that disagrees with you.” Wrong twice over. I haven’t threatened to kill anyone—and I’ve never preached a Gospel of Tolerance to begin with.

Keep trying, TheLies… maybe someday you’ll come up with an actual statement worthy of debate!

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Mark,

The writer’s strike is over. You don’t have to play re-runs an longer.

By Brain

March 12, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

Copyleft, How does it feel? Huh? You just got a taste of your own medicine. I stated things that I do and don’t do. You preceded to group me in with the president. You haven’t seen an attempt because you DON”T GO TO CHURCH!!! Therefore you don’t deal with groups like the ACLU calling and harassing churches. A carrot could debate better than you do. The reasons Dems won control in 06 is because the GOP lost their way with out of control spending. This congress has the lowest approval rating in the history of America! Everyone knows that! Worse rating than the president. Princess Nancy said that “we will bring home the troops now!” HA! We are still there. Lay off the crack!

By True Beleiver

March 12, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

For all you atheists and non-beleivers out there, take some time to read and follow the bible and you too will have eternal salvation. For my fellow beleivers, though, could you help me out on some of the following? Thanks in advance……

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

By Jen

March 12, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

I know all about Boomerang because I have a 6 year old and I think him watching Tom-n-Jerry (he calls Tom Tomin…you know…Tomin Jerry) over some of those war-hungry anime shows. Nothing like good old slapstick comedic violence Road Runner style….

He’s probably the only kid his age who knows who Aquaman and Popeye are…

But he’s only allowed to watch TV on Saturday mornings….

By Copyleft

March 12, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

“A carrot could debate better than you… Ha! Lay off the crack!” Sounds like you’re the one having trouble containing your hatred, Brain.

Another bit of Another Religious Reich hypocrisy exposed for all to see. Better luck next time.

By Copyleft

March 12, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Repeating lies and insisting they must be true—because YOU say so—isn’t the hallmark of a skilled debater, Brain.

It is, however, typical of what a more fundamentalist church would do… so I guess I believe you when you say you attend one regularly.

Oh, and it’s “proceeded,” not “preceded” in that usage. Finish your schooling yet? We’ve got time.

By A Carrot

March 12, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Brian, I would like to set up a time to have a formal debate with you. And as for you , True Beleiver, you are too funny! I’m sure you must have gotten those passages from a jokebook and not the bible.

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Truly, believers in some books of good reading can express themselves in ways that would yield a hallelujah from the staunchest of the thankless.

By John

March 12, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Brain,

Exactly how old are you anyway?

So I’m curious..for all those Christians reading this blog…how do you see yourself in Heaven? Just what is it supposed to be like? Will you be aware of yourself…will you have arms and legs? Do you expect to see and experience lost friends and family? Will they appear to you as they were in life? Will the streets be paved with gold and if so is that something that matters after you leave your physical life? Can anyone describe a day in heaven? I know we have all kinds of images of hell because it’s easy to imagine terrible things, but how about eternal bliss?

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

My youngest is now 14 going on 15. We’ll sit around and watch shows like American Idol or Hannah together after she finishes her homework. The only cartoons she still seems to enjoy is spongebob. We both get a kick out of it but my wife relates it to the Three Stooges type of comedy — she cannot stand it.

I admit that I do not take her to church very often but I do try to teach her some of the lessons that I finally learned. Things like killing=bad, stealing=bad, helping others=good. I don’t know that everyone needs a trip to church every week to learn these things. Now, there are others that I don’t believe could be “saved” if they were in church 24/7.

By The truth

March 12, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Copyleft, I’m hurt. You are not responding to my comments. Also, cue NAZI reference. Anytime a liberal loses a debate they either call you a racist or nazi. You’ve used both today Copyleft. You want a happy smiley sticker? A lollypop maybe?

Carrot, Are you serious about a debate? Which Starbucks would you like to debate at? I’d love to debate you. Liberals are great punching bags. I’ll bring the tissues when you break down and cry.

True Beleiver, You’re a classic example of what liberals do. You’ve obviously taken the Bible out of context and tried to attack Christians. My advice for you and every other liberal, is if you really hate Christians as much as you’ve expressed in this blog, please move to Iran where they would be happy to saw off your hands. I’d much rather be around Christians than Muslims.

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

John,

My daughter just wants to know what it’s like not to be bored. I always seem to reply with something like “Just look around you at all this world contains and at all there is to do. [Pause] Do the dishes or pick up your clothes or wash the dog….” Suddenly, she’s no longer bored.

By Jen

March 12, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

First and foremost I think a “sense” of morality is human nature. Our definitions of morality really come from our parents. Religion might have an influence but really…it’s parents.

I think it’s absurd to think that the only reason people are good is because they fear God or desire God’s approval. I mean, don’t people do good things and try to be good people because (1) it feels heartwarming, (2) it’s healthier, (3) it helps others, (4) it makes for a safer, cleaner world?

If the only reason someone is good is because they fear God’s reprisal then it’s hollow and less good….

By the lies

March 12, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

the truth,

You are not making comments you are just writing hyperbole. Debating points have to be logical and be verifiable…you are providing neither.

And you are wrong about liberals calling you a racist or nazi when they lose a debate…why? Because that never happens.

The bible, if believed to be the inspired word of God, cannot be taken out of context. It’s either the word of God in it’s intended state or it’s a piece of mis-matched literature that has been touched by many (mortal) pens. I beleive it to be the latter.

And finally, no one has stated they hate Christians…you give yourself too much credit.

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Jen,

No argument with your 3:06 from me. Have a good afternoon. It’s time to pick up my daughter.

By f(x) = 36x^2

March 12, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Firstly, the post by “True Believer” is attributed to a letter sent to Dr. Laura Schlessinger, an orthodox Jew, and is a satirical way of emphasising that one can not live exactly as the old testament commands. Christians have the “New Covenant” to replace the requirements of Levitical law, but ultra-Orthodox Jews do not.

Please, learn to recognize satire and address it as such, rather than falling back on venom and name-calling.

Second, some of you continue to falsely use the words “Liberal” and “Christian” as if they are antithetical to each other. They simply are not. What you are really saying is that “liberal” and the branch of Christianity best described as a conservative, evangelical and biblically literalist are antithetical to each other. That’s probably closer to being accurate.

What’s more, you are suggesting by that division that only members of that particular group of Christians are “true” Christians.

You wonder why there is such anger directed towards you? Who are you to judge what “real” Christianity is?

I’m also saddened whenever I hear someone say that someone should “Move to Iran”. Apparently you struggle with the freedoms inherent in our Constitution. You certainly don’t understand what it means to be an American if you believe that anyone who disagrees with you should move away.

You also apparently don’t understand how silly it is to suggest that people who oppose theocracy move to a country that uses Sharia law. I mean, come on…

By Jen

March 12, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

“My advice for you and every other liberal, is if you really hate Christians as much as you’ve expressed in this blog, please move to Iran where they would be happy to saw off your hands. “

This line of thinking makes no sense.

Why would anyone move anywhere they arbitrarily go around cutting people’s hands off? That’s just plain silly.

And who are you to say they just go around cutting off everyone’s hands there? That’s pretty unkind of you to say about people you don’t know and a place you’ve never been.

By True Beleiver

March 12, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Re: Truth You’ve obviously taken the Bible out of context and tried to attack Christians.

I’m sure no one wants me to post the entire old testament here. I’m not attacking Christians, I just needed some advice since I was taught to follow the bible. My priest told me that it wasn’t up to me to pick and choose what passages suited me from the bible. So are you suggesting that I should not follow the bible’s teachings???? Shame on you for trying to get me not to beleive!

By Brain

March 12, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

John, What does my age have to do with anything? Your sarcasm shows your intelligence. It really does. Can I ask you where your tail went? How about your gills? You were evolved from a monkey or fish, right? What sea did you crawl out of? What family of apes fits you best? You see, sarcastic questions get sarcastic answers.

By Copyleft

March 12, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Hyperbole is pretty much all that reactionaries like “The Truth” have to work with. The funny part is, they think that makes them skilled and logical debaters!

Just try to draw them into making specific, falsifiable statements. It’s like trying to nail Jell-o to the wall.

By Chewy

March 12, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Jen, Darling, please go back to watching cartoons. That reference was to all the christian attackers on this blog. Liberals seem to love muslims yet muslims are the ones flying planes in to buildings.

By The truth

March 12, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

True Beleiver, First of all, learn to spell. Second, you were and are being sarcastic.

Copyleft, Alright, you’ve responded. Now I’m reactionary. I would say the same to you. You’ve obviously lost the debate and no you’ve resorted to using kindergarten style comebacks. Pink, you stink! Now go sit in the corner with the rest of your bed wetting friends.

By A Carrot

March 12, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

I tried to move to Iran based on the great advice you just recommended, but I was told NO I couldn’t move because I was just a Carrot! How’s that for discrimination? Go figure!

By Jen

March 12, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Do these people forget that being Christian means you abandon pretty much all of the Old Testament and only follow the New Testament, which is supposed to be Jesus’s new version of things carried down directly from God?

this mean…Ten Commandments? No longer!

However, common sense says that most of the things in the Ten Commandments are generally better for your overall health…most of them…

By Jen

March 12, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

“That reference was to all the christian attackers on this blog. “

Duh….

It was absurd…that was my point…DUH….

By John

March 12, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

What does my age have to do with anything? Your style of writing sounds like that of an immature person, someone who doesn’t really know how to string his thoughts into a coherent piece of writing.

as to this, Your sarcasm shows your intelligence..no it doesn’t. it might show my arrogance or my inability to be civil, but it would not be revealing enough about my intelligence, although your response is indicative of yours.

And that isn’t really sarcasm…sarcasm would be saying something like “you sound so mature” when I really thought you were immature. Does that make sense?

By A Carrot

March 12, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Can anyone translate what Jen just tried to say????

By keepin it real

March 12, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

We ARE a nation of believers - everyone believes in someone or something. Yes, many people are “losing their religion”, because they are recognizing that spirituality, NOT religion is where it is at.

As a believer in Christ, I think that the hostility toward those of us who claim to be Christians, is not because of “evil people”, but because we have treated others who don’t share our beliefs so poorly and we have behaved so badly the we don’t even represent who Jesus was at all.

By the lies

March 12, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

I don’t think that any intelligent person would consider the comments by CopyLeft as kindergarten style comebacks. Again, this is hyperbole.

He also has not “lost” the debate because there has been no real debate presented.

I’ve never heard the expression “trying to nail Jell-o to the wall” but it really fits here.

By The truth

March 12, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

John, No, not really. But since you think I’m immature and stupid I might add that you sound just as dumb. Especially since you opened up with verses just so that you could make fun of christians. Have you discovered what species of apes you came from?

By Chewy

March 12, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

John, I’ve gone back and read your previous comments. It really does sound like your using versus to make fun of Christians. Liberals are supposed to be tolerant of others, right? So, why not tolerate those who disagree with you? And I might add, you are not that intelligent in your last argument.

By Jen

March 12, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Carrot, you of all people should understand someone with a sense of humor like mine!

I’m devastated!

By the lying liar

March 12, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

the lies, Are you copyleft? You two have the same sort of writing style. Curious.

By Jen

March 12, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

All I meant, by the way, is that Christians are not under the covenant of the Old Testament however many seem to pull it out in regards to morality. It not longer applies in that capacity.

The Old Testament simply serves as an admonition towards the New Testament (or New Convenant).

So, Christians should largely pull Scripture from the NT, not the OT.

At some point on this blog someone said that atheists, etc, don’t read the bible or soemthing…

That’s largely bull. Most atheists were raised in some religion. They just rejected it as they got older, like me.

It’s a rare few (though increasing) who are born into atheistic families…

By Oh brother

March 12, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

The reason it SEEMS like we’ve “lost our religion” is because there are now so many God-fearing folks in the U.S. who are religions other than Christian & if you are not a Christian, why then you are a piece-of-scum godless heathen & you don’t count. I am not a Christian so I can openly admit I have nothing but hate & contempt for the lazy, smelly, disease-spreading, criminal poor!

By John

March 12, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

My comments were directed at Brain not you The Truth. You aren’t posting under two identities are you?

by the way it is “species of ape” not “species of apes”.

First of all, humans are thought to have evolved originally from a primate called a tree shrew. From there different species evolved. Your question really demonstrates a poor knowledge of evolution. Humans would not have come from any single species of primate…that would mean we were still the same species and hadn’t evolved at all.

By The truth

March 12, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

John, Nope. I go stag when I make comments. Pairs don’t really work for me on blogs. Anyway, thanks for correcting my ape question. Have you figured out what species of “ape” you come from?

By John

March 12, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Chewy, The Truth, Brain

It was True Believer that posted the verses (note the spelling).

This notion of intolerance toward Christians is often brought up. They try to push their beliefs on everyone and when people push back, they are called intolerant.

You say there is a place called Heaven, I say there isn’t. That is a disagreement not intolerance. But I won’t tolerate you trying to shove your religious beliefs down my throat or trying to enshrine them in laws that are supposed to protect everyone regardless of religious beliefs. It’s not enough that you Christians practice your faith in your own life…you have to go trying to make everyone else adhere to them also. One example..the woman that wanted Harry Potter banned from schools. I can come up with many more.

By Master Po

March 12, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

So, what has all of this accomplished? Who’s mind has been changed by all of this?

If all the energy that was put into the rantings on this blog had been put towards something useful, the world would now be a better place.

Remember “The undiscerning mind is like the roots of a tree. It absorbs all it comes in contact with; even that which would poison it.

By The Truth

March 12, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

John, That last paragraph didn’t show up a moment ago. Thanks for answering my question and proving a point. You’ve just stated my poor knowledge of evolution. I can now turn it around to people like you that don’t know much about the bible yet go around trashing it and christians. Thank you for helping me prove a point about liberals. By the way, from what you just told me about evolution, I can tell you that I am very comfortable with my beliefs and faith. Thanks and have a nice day.

By cool breeze

March 12, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

So many people don’t know history. Over 95% of all wars are not “religious” wars. They are wars over resources and territory. In the 20th century alone over 240 million people were killed in wars and none had to do with religion. Go down the lists on wars in the 20th century and where are the religious ones? So please stop perpetrating the LIE more people have died because of religion than any other reason. It’s not true and shows people’s ignorance and not doing the proper research but repeating things they have heard others say.

By cool breeze

March 12, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Funny how people use how the bible has been misused by some but forget or don’t think about how various sciences such as Physiology, Psychology, Biology, History and Sociology have been used to oppress and as a vindication for racism and racists social programs against Black people and others.

By John

March 12, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Lord you are stupid…I’m sorry but you are. Or you are Brain on drugs.

Let’s look at the series of posts:

Brain: What does my age have to do with it? Me: You sound immature. The Truth: You think I’m immature..blah, blah.

Me: are The Truth and Brain the same?

The Truth: no

I mean, come on…

And I give up trying to get you to understand how evoltion works.

By Jen

March 12, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

cool breeze, while you are correct that most wars are actually about power and money and land…a whole heck of a lot of them use the name of God to get people on board…

By Brain

March 12, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

John, I have not tried to push my beliefs on you or anyone else. I was defending myself. Harry Potter? Wow, the outrage! Did she try to saw off your hands? No. I see your point but it is pretty weak. I don’t know any Christians that try to force themselves or their beliefs on other people. I have not read any articles where Christians have held anyone down and shoved a bible down their throat. You’ll have to come up with something other than Harry Potter. That was very weak indeed.

By FNietzsche

March 12, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning? Do we hear nothing as yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we smell nothing as yet of the divine decomposition? Gods, too, decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.

By cool breeze

March 12, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

For those who say christians need to keep religion to themselves. Jesus told his desciples to go and tell the world about him. They (we) are not to keep it to ourselves. Telling someone something is not pushing it down their throats. One more thing, the founders of this nation had church in the congressional chambers. They also supported the bible in public schools to teach chicldren to read and learn about the bible.

By History says otherwise

March 12, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Well now I would say the 6 Day War was certainly over religion. Each religion claimed it had the “Divine Right” to the land and resources that were disputed.

By cool breeze

March 12, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

The six day war was more over land than religion and how the arabs HATE the jews. A religious war is “mine is better than yours” Many wars are cloaked in religion for various purposes but a REAL religious war it was not. I just heard a fireside chat by Eisenhower and you know he invoked God and our faith in him to help us defeat the evil nazi’s? Would that make it a religious war?

By The truth

March 12, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

John, You’re confused because you’re a moron. Maybe it’s all those species of ape dna conflicting with your genetic makeup. And no, I’m still commenting as one person. You seem paranoid.

By dave

March 12, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

1 question: how old is the earth?

please base you answer off of scientific facts and not fiction. thanks, -dave

By The truth

March 12, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

FNietzsche is dead. - God

By Church of FSM

March 12, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Yes, Jesus did command his followers to go out and tell others about him. But I don’t see the passage where he told them to go out and use the power of government to force others to live as he commanded.

When Christians try to legislate their morality upon others through the power of law, they are no better than the Pharisees that Jesus scorned. Remember, the Pharisees we real big on showing everyone else how to live because they were so Holy. Sound familiar?

By Chewy

March 12, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

History says otherwise, Wow. One war and it had nothing to do with Christianity. Nice try. Will you now bring up the crusades or maybe even the salem witch burnings? I believe WW2 was over religion right? I mean we fought the Nazis. And the Jews were saved from them. Was that a bad war? Is Che your hero? I mean, he killed innocent people and murdered babies in the name of communism and the common good. right?

By John

March 12, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Why is my example of the lady trying to ban Harry Potter a weak argument?

Do we have to wait until Christians are actually violent? (and there are those that believe strongly in violence in support of their faith)

By Chewy

March 12, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

dave, No one knows how old the earth is. Sorry, but there is no scientific fact on how old the earth really is. My dad is a Chemical Engineer and my cousin is a Marine Biologist. Neither have the answer. Carbon Dating doesn’t work and has been proven wrong. Can you tell me where our tails went?

By History says otherwise

March 12, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Muslims hate Jews because they believe they are on the land given to them by Allah. Jews believe the land was given to them by Jehovah. Religion is the reason for the war over the land.

By John

March 12, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Good comeback…I was wrong about your debate skills.

by the way, few people read the phrase “shove down my throat” in it’s literal sense.

By Jen

March 12, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Go Away, FNietzsche, you are a known mysogynist! I don’t want you on my side of this argument!

By The truth

March 12, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

John, One lady who didn’t want her kid reading Harry Potter is a little small compared to Muslims flying planes in to buildings. I have yet to see a true Christian do anything to that magnitude. YOU? There will always be people who don’t want their kids exposed to certain things. She shouldn’t have it banned from every kid, though. Sounds like you look for the bad in Christians. Do you know any? Do they pin you down to the ground and make you each pages out of the Bible?

By Chew this

March 12, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Carbon Dating doesn’t work and has been proven wrong.

Would you care to provide something to back that statement up.

By History says otherwise

March 12, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Chewy, please relax before you injure yourself.

From Cool Breeze: “Go down the lists on wars in the 20th century and where are the religious ones?”

I simply answered that question, which never stated which religions had to be involved. And I never made a judgmental statement about it. And now you go bringing in Che, Nazis, and the Salem Witch trials???

That’s quite an assumptive leap don’t you think?

By JT

March 12, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Liberals, Socialist and Communist cannot rule without a Nation being atheist.

Weak people that think Government is the answer to all ills will buy into the non God theory.

The movement by the Democrat Party, which is a Socialist Party, has been hoping for years the American Society would become non-religious, as they know they cannot rule as long as God is the hope of people. Government must be the hope of the people for Socialist to take over.

Those of us that love God and freedom will fight to the last to remain free and with keep God in our lives.

I am so sorry for those that are so weak that Government must be your salvation.

Unfortunately, for the Godless, they will never know the joy of believing.

By JT

March 12, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Liberals, Socialist and Communist cannot rule without a Nation being atheist.

Weak people that think Government is the answer to all ills will buy into the non God theory.

The movement by the Democrat Party, which is a Socialist Party, has been hoping for years the American Society would become non-religious, as they know they cannot rule as long as God is the hope of people. Government must be the hope of the people for Socialist to take over.

Those of us that love God and freedom will fight to the last to remain free and with keep God in our lives.

I am so sorry for those that are so weak that Government must be your salvation.

Unfortunately, for the Godless, they will never know the joy of believing.

By saywhat

March 12, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Hey Copyleft - what’s the use of religion or a belief system if you “don’t” take it seriously? It’s not really FAITH or BELIEF if you don’t.

By Lampshade

March 12, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

John, Please give us idiot Christians a clear example of “shoving our beliefs down your throat.” I believe you used a Harry Potter incident but that is not really an extreme example of abuse. What violence are you referring to? Some incident that happened 100 or so years ago? I’ve seen more examples of liberals going after Christians. How about telling Christians we can’t sing Christmas songs or that we can’t wear crosses in public? How about the ACLU going after pastors who speak out on gay marriage?

By dave

March 12, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Would you say that the earth is between 6,000 to 10,000 years old? or much much older?

Just curious…

By Chewy

March 12, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Chew this, Here you go. You are going to regret this.

Whenever the worldview of evolution is questioned, this topic always comes up. Let me first explain how carbon dating works and then show you the assumptions it is based on. Radiation from the sun strikes the atmosphere of the earth all day long. This energy converts about 21 pounds of nitrogen into radioactive carbon 14. This radioactive carbon 14 slowly decays back into normal, stable nitrogen. Extensive laboratory testing has shown that about half of the C-14 molecules will decay in 5730 years. This is called the half-life. After another 5730 years half of the remaining C-14 will decay leaving only ¼ of the original C-14. It goes from ½ to ¼ to 1/8, etc. In theory it would never totally disappear, but after about 5 half lives the difference is not measurable with any degree of accuracy. This is why most people say carbon dating is only good for objects less than 40,000 years old. Nothing on earth carbon dates in the millions of years, because the scope of carbon dating only extends a few thousand years. Willard Libby invented the carbon dating technique in the early 1950’s. The amount of carbon 14 in the atmosphere today (about .0000765%), is assumed there would be the same amount found in living plants or animals since the plants breath CO2 and animals eat plants. Carbon 14 is the radio-active version of carbon.

Since solar radiation causes the formation of C-14 in the atmosphere, and normal radioactive decay takes it out, there must be a point where the formation rate and the decay rate equalizes. This is called the point of equilibrium. Let me illustrate: If you were trying to fill a barrel with water but there were holes drilled up the side of the barrel, as you filled the barrel it would begin leaking out the holes. At some point you would be putting it in and it would be leaking out at the same rate. You will not be able to fill the barrel past this point of equilibrium. In the same way the C-14 is being formed and decaying simultaneously. A freshly created earth would require about 30,000 years for the amount of C-14 in the atmosphere to reach this point of equilibrium because it would leak out as it is being filled. Tests indicate that the earth has still not reached equilibrium. There is more C-14 in the atmosphere now than there was 40 years ago. This would prove the earth is not yet 30,000 years old! This also means that plants and animals that lived in the past had less C-14 in them than do plants and animals today. Just this one fact totally upsets data obtained by C-14 dating.

The carbon in the atmosphere normally combines with oxygen to make carbon dioxide (CO2). Plants breathe CO2 and make it part of their tissue. Animals eat the plants and make it part of their tissues. A very small percentage of the carbon plants take in is radioactive C-14. When a plant or animal dies it stops taking in air and food so it should not be able to get any new C-14. The C-14 in the plant or animal will begin to decay back to normal nitrogen. The older an object is, the less carbon-14 it contains. One gram of carbon from living plant material causes a Geiger counter to click 16 times per minute as the C-14 decays. A sample that causes 8 clicks per minute would be 5,730 years old (the sample has gone through one half life), and so on. (See chart on page 46 about C-14). Although this technique looks good at first, carbon-14 dating rests on two simple assumptions. They are, obviously, assuming the amount of carbon-14 in the atmosphere has always been constant, and its rate of decay has always been constant. Neither of these assumptions is provable or reasonable. An illustration may help: Imagine you found a candle burning in a room, and you wanted to determine how long it was burning before you found it. You could measure the present height of the candle (say, seven inches) and the rate of burn (say, an inch per hour). In order to find the length of time since the candle was lit we would be forced to make some assumptions. We would, obviously, have to assume that the candle has always burned at the same rate, and assumes an initial height of the candle. The answer changes based on the assumptions. Similarly, scientists do not know that the carbon-14 decay rate has been constant. They do not know that the amount of carbon-14 in the atmosphere is constant. Present testing shows the amount of C-14 in the atmosphere has been increasing since it was first measured in the 1950’s. This may be tied in to the declining strength of the magnetic field.

By GOD

March 12, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

This is GOD and this is my official statement. I hate all of you and no longer wish for you to follow me or my word. And do not atempt to stalk me or pray to me because I am no longer listening! You are officially kicked out of the kingdom of heaven.

By Chewy

March 12, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

dave, Can you not read? I said that no one really knows that answer. I said that Carbon Dating is false. I’ve answered your question. Also, see my posting on why Carbon Dating doesn’t work. Fascinating stuff.

By PeachtreeFreethinkers

March 12, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” —Stephen Henry Roberts

By A Carrot

March 12, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

Intersting discussion on carbon dating and how it works, but I don’t like to go out in the sun too much, kinda turns me orange.

By Citation Police

March 12, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Chewy,
Would you be so kind as to provide the citation from which completely unbiased source this material was derived?

By dave

March 12, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Chewy, that HOGWASH that you copied and pasted has been used over and over on my favorite “talibangelical” site so many times I could almost say it by heart at this point. Nice spin…

better that you answer my question…

let’s make it simple…do you think the earth is OVER or under 1 million years old?

I have a few rocks in my back yard just DYING to know! (so do the appalachian mountians I reside in)… thanks again!!! -dave ;-)

By Chew This

March 12, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

Ok Chewy…now explain what that means? I know where that came from and how it is refuted….but I want to know if you really know what your post says…so please explain why it is fascinating.

By dave

March 12, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Chewy, carbon dating is not the ONLY way one tests to find the age of things…

now answer and tell me what YOU think…

is the earth over or under 1 million years old?

Oh…. I’ll add this one…do you believe that Noah had an ark and put 2 of EVERY creature on board? If so, how big was the boat (or would of had to have been)?

Thanks again!!! -dave

By John

March 12, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

What do terroists flying into buildings have to do with Christians imposing their beliefs on non-believers. The Harry Potter example: She’s a christian. She believes the Harry Potter book is anti-Christian. She believes that not only her kids should be forbidden from reading it, but it should be removed so no one’s kids have the opportunitey to read it. Taking the book out of the library is an IMPOSITION to those who want to let their kids read it. She’s shoving her beliefs down the throats of non-believers.

There is a preacher in Seattle named Ken Hutcherson. He believes gays are sinful and bad. There is a big company in Seattle called Microsoft. One of it’s founders was gay. Microsoft offers benefits to gay employees and to their partners. Ken Hutcherson wants all of his church members to buy up Microsoft stock so he can do away with the benefits to gays. That is an imposition. And by the way, why can’t they spend their money on other things…like, I don’t know..charity, homes for the homeless, you know that kind of stuff. And come on people (or really the same person) shove down the throat is a figure of speech.

By PeachtreeFreethinkers.org

March 12, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

A great bumper sticker: ATHEISM CURES RELIGIOUS TERRORISM

PeachtreeFreethinkers

By BGB

March 12, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it interesting that almost every one of the posts made by the radical Christians is full of spelling and grammatical errors? Obviously literacy is not something that is important to the church.

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

Wow! What a “discussion”. I believe. I believe that, barring some unforeseen event, I will be one day older after the passage of 24 hours. We could change that to OH two days older if we choose to redefine the length of a day as 12 hours. After all, only roughly half of the earth is “experiencing” a day at any given time. I believe that the earth is sort of round. I believe that no one will ever provide the exact answer to the ratio of a circle’s circumference to its diameter. I believe that earth will cease to exist one day. We may find another one to occupy before that day. We may have found this one before that day.

By Chewy

March 12, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

dave, What part of no one knows how old the earth really is, don’t you understand? I never said I knew. Just that Carbon Dating is wrong. Let me put it this way. Carbon testing was done on a chicken bone for fun. The data read that the chicken bone was 5 million years old. Funny thing is, the chicken bone came from a fresh chicken wing from Popeyes. Is that clear enough for all you atheist evolutionist out there? You people are worse than communist. Then again, atheism is communism.

By The truth

March 12, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

John, If you hate Christians that much then maybe you should kill them. How about that? Would that work? What then, do you want from Christians who speak out against immorality? Comparing a Harry Potter incident is retarded. One incident. Atheists will have the Earth all to themselves after the rapture. I can guarantee you will miss us after we’re gone. I’m not worried about death.

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Chewy,

Do you realize the significance of your findings? Cooking chicken at Popeyes ages it by 5 million years. The applications are mind-numbing.

By Chewy

March 12, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

OneForTheRoad, That was an example of how bad carbon testing can be. What more do you want? Do your own research.

By OneForTheRoad

March 12, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Chewy,

Please accept my apology for not recognizing your lack of a functional humor activation device. After all, I’m a believer, I couldn’t leave her… What more could one want. I believe that the earth is as old as dirt or older. I believe that infinity is big, really big, really really big, even bigger. I believe that an eternity is a long time, a long long long long time. Now tell me, if you knew exactly how old the earth was, what would you know?

By Ironman Carmichael

March 12, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Christians complain a lot these days about their rights supposedly being taken away by a presumed secular mafia, but in truth today’s culture of conspicuous Christianity is its own worst advertisement.

First of all, to call the United States a “Christian” country, inferring that if you’re not Christian you’re not really an American, is as wrong as calling the U.S. a “white” country for the same reason. To claim this country was founded “on Christian values” tempts the response “Yeah: greed and entitlement.”

Christians today seem to have abandoned the tenets of their own faith in their pursuit of political power. Despite Matthew 6 (only pharisees and hypocrites make a big public show of their faith), public prayer has become a civil rights issue. And the now-annual uproar every December about the so-called War On Christmas is unfit for adult discussion.

Offhand I can think of two organizations—the Elks and the Boy Scouts—that proudly admit to refusing membership to atheists. Can anyone give an example of even one group or organization that brags about banning Christians?

So much for “…as we forgive those who trespass against us.” Today it’s No More Mr. Nice Guy time for the contemporary American Christian.

By h ryder

March 12, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

A) There is a positive correlation between level of education and atheism. The higher the level of education the greater the likelihood of the person admitting, under anonymous conditions, that religion is a social construct without any valid intellectual basis. B)If those people claiming to be religious truly followed the basic tenet of most religions(the so called golden rule), very few of any countries or individuals problems causing pain or death would exist.

By charles corley

March 12, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

gooooood morning/ what if god is a woman and the bible really is a novel written by homo sapiens better known as human beings. christianity today is based on fear and intimidation. can you imagine that preachers are threatening you with such a character as the devil. the no. 1 halloween costume. and jesus, if you don’t think he has been used, then how did we end up with santa claus and a rabbit. my ole sweet mother had it right. she called it the almighty $$$$$$$$$. remember if you have been told this propaganda by a loving mother who was told that by her loving mother then you are scared not to believe it, i had a uncle who was baptized 37 times and never missed a sunday, can you imagine how much liquor he drank on sunday and how much adultry he committed. when moses came down from the mountain with the adultry idea the baptist needed a loop hole and came up with once saved always saved. the only voice i every hear sounds like my own voice so by definition that makes me a prophet. come on down you sinners.

By Hildymac

March 12, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Frankly, I am a Christian. I believe in the teachings of Jesus and the Bible as a basis of history… it’s a history book. As a history book, it has been re-written and mistranslated hundreds of times. I do not agree with organized religion. There is a verse (I can’t remember which) that says something along the lines that man is not supposed to take the word of God and warp and twist it for his own means. That’s what religion has become, and quite frankly, I do not feel the need to go to listen to a fellow sinner tell me how not to sin, nor do I take kindly to people telling me how to live my life whose names are neither “Jesus” nor “God.”

What about the Gospel of Thomas? It’s been repressed for years by the Catholic and Protestant churches. One of my favorite quotes, and probably the reason it’s been banned, is this one - which can be seen as killing the need for organized religion totally:

“I am the light that shines over all things. I am everywhere. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there,”

Wait a second… faith lives in the person and not in the institution? Jesus is everywhere and not in a building? No!

Oh, and just to point out, the part of Leviticus saying that man should not lie with man since it is an abomination comes shortly after a section calling the eating of pork an abomination and the eating of shellfish one too. You make exceptions for that - choosing what God said when it is good for you. Ever thought about the fact that it was written as health guidance? Pork and shellfish, when undercooked/raw, can kill you. Sex with anyone has the potential to give you a disease. It’s Holy Health for Dummies.

By Operation Shock@Awe

March 12, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

I believe Christians are the American equivalent of the Taliban. Americans think Jesus looks like Joe Dirt. He was black for Christ’s sake. Anyway who knows faith hate just like a war sold on slogans of destruction blowing little babies to bits

By Stewie

March 12, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Me, I’m no longer a believer. Grew up going to church, and feel that it does help provide a good foundation which works well in conjunction with parent’s guidance on how to live a “good” life.

My sister is a believer, and we get along just fine, because we both accept and love each other as is.

My father, never visibly a believer (though not visibly a non-believer, either), has become rather outspoken in his beliefs as he has aged, although his actions, including selfishness and intolerance, have not changed.

Just because I don’t believe doesn’t mean that I’m arrogant enough to think there isn’t a chance that I’m wrong.

Organized religion does a great deal of good, though there are things done in its name that I do not consider good.

I do not personally care for those who use the power of organized religion to legislate morality, as seen locally in efforts to block a public vote on Sunday alcohol sales (and I couldn’t care less about buying booze on Sundays, but I do care that it’s been blocked from allowing the public to vote on it).

Gay marriage is another issue that organized religion, in general, seems to oppose. My marriage with my wife would neither suffer nor gain if two men married one another, because our marriage exists within the love we have for one another.

Okay, sorry for all of that…turned into more than I intended. In answer of the question, I think more people are slowly turning away from religion, and that animosity between the believers and the non-believers is growing as each tries to use their collective power (and I feel organized religion is much, much stronger) to set its stake in the ground, as it were.

By Chris

March 12, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

As a preacher, I would hope that America is losing its religion. I think that we are in the last days of this world and that we don’t need “religion”, we need a RELATIONSHIP. We need a relationship with the only Son of God, Jesus Christ. Many within the Christian community have lost sight with the fact that we are not to spread religion, we are to spread a need for a relationship with Jesus. We have focused on the differences in our view on issues and forgotten what Acts 4:12 says, “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

By Copyleft

March 13, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Well said, Chris (and Stewie). We need less ‘religion’ and more actual spirituality, in the form of helping one another instead of attacking gays and throwing bombs.

By dave

March 13, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Someone PLEASE explain Noah’s Ark. I need the number…how many animals? How large was the boat? Oh yeah…when was the flood…what year..should be easy for one of you to pin point!

Thanks! -dave :)

By John C. Snider

March 17, 2008 7:13 AM | Link to this

Chris said “we don’t need “religion”, we need a RELATIONSHIP.”

This is basically what one religion says when it’s trying to discredit all other religions. “No, I’m not a religion - I’m a ‘relationship’.” In a word, baloney.

I don’t know if American is becoming less religious or not, but I hope so.

John C. Snider www.AmericanFreethought.com