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DEL.ICIO.USDoes flag pin measure patriotism
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Jack Kingston, a Republican congressman from Savannah, has pointed out that Barack Obama has balked at wearing a flag lapel pin adopted in the aftermath of Sept. 11. With everybody else doing it, Kingston said, “it’s curious that suddenly there is a guy who doesn’t want to do it.”
Obama has acknowledged quietly removing the lapel pin, writes AJC Opinion columnist Jay Bookman, because he said, the pin “became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.” READ BOOKMAN’S COLUMN
Bookman writes, “It is dangerous to define patriotism as going along with what everybody else says and does. Sometimes, patriotism is measured not by a lapel pin, but by a willingness to air your doubts and dare to be different, for the good of your country.”
Should a flag pin be used to measure patriotism?
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By presidential timber?
March 3, 2008 8:02 AM | Link to this
Wearing an American flag lapel pin is one thing. Making a conscious decision not to wear one is something else entirely. It signifies a profound disrespect for the principles of the country Obama is seeking to run as our president. He is not fit to represent us.By Pat Weaver
March 3, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this
Refusing to wear a flag pin says zero about real respect for the country - and actually is a strong indicator that the person does support its principles. Wearing a flag pin is a cheap, easy display of phony patriotism that requires nothing of the wearer but a strong herd instinct and desire for public approval. Not wearing one in the face of condemnation by faux patriots like the first poster is an act of courage these days.By John
March 3, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this
How does not wearing a piece of cheap metal show “profound disrepect?” Patriotism is all about actions, not just empty platitudes and wearing objects. It is about how you act, and Obama speaks his mind and inspires people to believe in the American dream again - that’s true patriotism. IMO, the people complaining about him not wearing an flag lapel pin are the same people who stick a fish on their car think it makes them a Christian.By Peter
March 3, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this
Has the lapel pin become “SUPPORT FOR THE TROOPS” ? How easy to get away with such superficial action after all the failures to provide armor, intelligence, diplomatic considerations. Too many feel all they have to do for the troops is put yellow ribbons on their cars and wear lapel pins. With so many meaningful actios, why does this symbol become significant?By Peter
March 3, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this
The young “YELLOW REPUBLICANS” (we used to call them Chicken Hawks) who decry opposition to the quagmire but don’t enlist have become so tiresome. I’ve stopped listening to them. When they come back in uniform they will have earned the right to tell us where to go. (That doesn’t necessarily make them right.)By b.
March 3, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this
Senator Obama’s choice not to wear an United States flag lapel pin actually represents the best of what this country is supposed to be about. That is, that United States citizens are free to express themselves as they see fit within the bounds of the law. Contrary to an earlier post, Obama’s conscious decision to use his actions as a means to reflect his level of patriotism is a much more profound expression of respect for this country than a one-cent piece of tin [which was probably made in China and painted with lead paint] affixed to his lapel could ever represent. People should not lose sight of the fact that such things are symbols. Even [gasp!] the flag and our national anthem are symbols that can never convey the magnitude of love felt in one’s heart for one’s country, nor the import of the contributions one makes to this country through his or her civil or military service.By JD
March 3, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
I agree that wearing a flag pin does not, by itself, indicate real respect for this country. I also agree that refusing to wear a flag pin, by itself, does not indicate a lack of real respect for this country. I do agree that actions are what count. Please list the actions, showing real respect for this country, of the 3 people who remain in the running to the be next President of the United States.By sane jane
March 3, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this
Only lemmings think that shallow gestures indicated patriotism (or conversely, “signify profound disrespect”). In the same way, I guess, that bumper stickers are evidence that you “support our troops.” (If you want to support our troops, try weaning yourself off the giant SUVs that keep $$$ flowing directly into the pockets of both terrorists AND the corporate kleptocracy that permeates Washington.By gttim
March 3, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this
First off, Jack Kingston was making the rounds of TV shows parroting this disingenuous GOP smear while… wait for it… not wearing a flag pin. When this was pointed out he said, “Well I do have one I wear…” Right. This is who we elect in Georgia. Nice. Second, a flag pin or ribbon on your car does not make you patriotic. What makes you patriotic is what you do. Do you support the troops by making sure they have all the equipment they need? Do you make sure that returning vets have been injured have instant access to all the medical care they need? Do you make sure that the spouses and children of soldiers are able to pay their bills and eat nutritious meals? Do you fight to protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and not just the few parts you think need protecting? Wearing a flag pin means nothing. I suggest the pin wearing GOP is not patriotic because of their actions. Suggesting that Obama isn’t because he chooses not to wear a little piece of jewelery is idiotic.By fed up
March 3, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this
I think B. Hussein Obama not wearing an American pin shows that you can’t judge a traitor by the pin he/she wears. Just look at all the other politicians wearing those pins who constantly stab American tax-paying citizens in the back. Patriots huh? Most of our elected officials would’nt know patriotism if it walked up to them and shoved the pin up their a**e.By Gerald
March 3, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this
An American Flag label pin is just another way of wrapping yourself in the flag without making any sacrifice for the country. If you really want to show your patriotism and sacrifice something for the war effort, how about demanding a war tax to pay for this war.By Peter
March 3, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this
JD - Just offering yourself as a candidate and willingly taking all the false accusations takes courage. (Heck, our current President was elected with no credentials … and now, somehow. they have to meet a higher standard?) I do agree that putting Duh-bya in the White House was a mistake and certain standards have been too low.By The Oddball
March 3, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
Friends, when people try to tell you that wearing a lapel pin is a factor in choosing a chief executive, you really should be asking yourself why. Our next President will face some real problems, and lapel pins ain’t one of them. Nothing is easier to fake than patriotism. This is a distraction tactic. It’s not worthy of serious discussion. PS If you think an unpatriotic person would run for President, then you know absolutely nothing about politics or government.By Mike McManus
March 3, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this
Patriotism has nothing to do with lapel pins or words. Actions define patriots. Soldier’s, sailor’s, airmen. The military that does as told, for the good of the country, or at least the will of the politicians. Past actions, not promises of the future are the definition of a patriot. Talk is cheap. And since I’m ranting here, when the Senate and House voted to authorize the use of force, they did not direct the administration to go to war, ya can if ya want to. The vote was not a directive. And, by the way, this is a police action, we never declared war. It’s not a war.By Filster
March 3, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
I agree that a flag pin does not make one patriotic. I wonder if Jack Kingston, who has a pin that he just doesn’t wear, ever served in the military. If you want a true measure of patriotism, then look at the men and women who serve our country in our armed forces. It is by their efforts, their sacrifice, their blood, that politicians such as Kingston can have a pin and choose not to wear it, or not wear one regardless like Obama. Under the old Soviet Union, you had your party pin and you’d better dern wear it all the time. Military service ought to be a prerequisite for politics. The lessons of what it truly means to serve are not found under the Gold Dome or the Capitol Dome. They are found in the wee hours of the darkest night while keeping watch over your comrades in arms. They are found hunkered down behind sandbags while bullets and bombs fly all around you. They are found when holding a comrade who is wounded, bleeding, and dying in your arms. While this may sound like an endorsement for McCain, it’s not. It’s merely one opinion on a measure of patriotism; a measure which is sorely lacking in the majority of our elected officials. If you have a flag pin, wear it with pride. If you don’t that is your choise, but don’t you dare demean those who give you the freedom to wear or not wear one. Have a good day my friends. Take :15 out of your schedules to bow your head and say a quick prayer for all our men and women in harm’s way.By Frank Cole
March 3, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Would all members of Congress and the 50 state legislatures who have a son or daughter serving in Iraq or Afghanistan please take your hands out of the pork barrels and raise them? Apply the same test to all neocons.By Anthony
March 3, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this
I think the good people of Savannah should vote old jack out of office.By Blogfather
March 3, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this
Conservatism is dead. Sen Craig sounded taps, with his flag at half mast.By candide
March 3, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
As Samuel Johnson said, patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. He also said he didn’t understand the yelps of American slaveowners on behalf of freedom. We need to see us sometimes as others see us.By Rick D. Day
March 3, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this
Start a trend, mock the PiNNED Plastic patriots prefer plastic pins.By Mike
March 3, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this
No, by itself the choice to not wear a flag pin is meaningless; however, when one couples that choice with the choice to not place his hand over his heart and recite the Pledge of Allegiance makes a very loud statement.By Kevin
March 3, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
Wearing a flag pin does not make one patriotic. However, I believe Mr. Obama’s reason is fairly weak and one wonders if he quietly removed it because of pressure from the anti-war wing, which I believe has to represent a sizable percenatge, of the Democratic party?By Ron
March 3, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
I worry about a lot more than a little piece of jewelry with Obama.The more I see him,the less I trust him.The more I read,the more suspicious I become.Time will tell.By Dave
March 3, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
Symbols only mean something when they point to something beyond themselves. When the symbols become more important that what they represent, it is necessary to repudiate them.By Edward
March 3, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
As Sinclair Lewis so eloquently, and presciently, stated, “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”By NICK
March 3, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Obama is a MUSLIM. Both his father and step father are MUSLIMS. Obama does not wear the AMERICAN FLAG pin, because he is the MUSLIMS, Manchurian Candidate. Obama the MUSLIM, wants to pull our troops out of MUSLIM countries and allow the TERRORISTS to regroup (just as Clinton did)so that they can attack the U.S. again. Obama is a TERRORIST! He is trying to destroy this country from within. Weak military + High taxes + Universal healthcare + Increased public assistance programs = DISASTER!By Sarah
March 3, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
Having your wife get up and say that before she had the chance, albeit one I hope to never see, she has never been proud of Amercia is NOT patriotic. She was never before proud of her country? Not even when her husband was eleted as as Senator. Or how we came together, as a nation, crossing party lines after 9-11, she was not proud? She may not be proud to be an American and I am certianly not proud to have her as an Amercian, I am very ashamed of her, very.By ConservativeDem
March 3, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
Obama made the choice not to wear the pin. That is his option and that is that. The purpose of the pin was to display to others we are united behind a common cause. I guess Obama is not behind the cause or simply chooses to be a nonconformist. That is his right. However, and you liberals listen carefully. It may be your choice and your right but there also could be consequences for your decision. Look at the causes liberals have ganged together and forced the American people to accept. Like the saving of trees in the 70’s & 80’s—they were wrong because it caused more damaged than good; howabout the onslaught of not building more refineries—I hope liberals in California pay $10 for a gallon of gas. I am afraid of Obama and I do not like what he may turn into.By Georgian in exile
March 3, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
Two points. First, Candide, your quote of Dr. Johnson was on target, that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Ever read Ambrose Bierce’s rejoinder in “The Devil’s Dictioanry” — that with all deference to the learned Dr. Johnson, it is the first. Second, anybody remember the John Prine Vietnam-era song, “Your Flag Decal Won’t Get You into Heaven Anymore?” (Chorus: “They’re already overcrowded from your dirty little war.”)By Peter
March 3, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
Nick - I’m having trouble reading your post … would you include your military status? Thanks.By Peter
March 3, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
… forgive me … I did my four years active duty 1969-1973, during the Vietnam debacle.By Truthman
March 3, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
First off, Nick, you’re a complete idiot. Please take your uneducated rants over to Wooten’s blog. Second, I don’t need to where a button with a picture of my mother to show I love her. All I have to do is show her love by my ACTIONS Finally, here’s a great quote: “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.” -Sinclair Lewis, 1937 Think about THAT!!!By songbird
March 3, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
Nick and Mike - you both continue to perpetuate falsehoods which demonstrates your ignorance.By Truthman
March 3, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
ConservativeDEM. First off, you’re a DINO. Secondly, if you and your ilk would’ve listened to Jimmy Carter in the 70’s, we’d have cheap alternative fuels now and we wouldn’t need to kill hundreds of thousands of Middle-easterners to satisfy our SUV thirst for their oil!! You are a fossil and you are wrong. Please move to Jack Kingston’s district since you so love Big Business and America of the Corporation, by the Corporation and of the Corporation!!By chris
March 3, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
You’re right, Obama does not wear a faux patriot pin that was made in China. The chickenhawk neocons can not win the battle of ideas, so they’re desperately trying to smear Obama. All they can do is throw red meat at their dim, bigoted followers by lying about him being a muslim and “hating America.” Pathetic- even by GOP standards.By Ted P
March 3, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
To be the president you must be proud to be an American and be patriotically UN afraid to show it. Does Barach Hussein Obama have these qualities?By SunshinePatriot
March 3, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
It’s not flag lapel pins that show true patriotism; it’s the number of Support the Troops ribbons on your car!By wwandrr
March 3, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
True patriotism is having the guts, intelligence and honor of making sure we don’t send our troops into harms way in a pre-emptive war, not using fear to shred and obfuscate the constitution and understanding that no one, not even our unitary executive (king), is above the rule of law. This country is for all citizens with respect of our diffirences no matter what they be, instead of trying to create enemies of the state of those amongst us that disagree. Can you say Police State…By FedUp
March 3, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Wearing a flag pin is not an indicator of patriotism…however, REFUSING to wear one makes me wonder, “Why?”.By Tinkertoy
March 3, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Wearing a flag pin is one issue, pledging allegience to the flag AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is another. I may not wear a flag pin, because I wear a pink pin, but I will always pledge allegience to my flag and my country.By Not OBAMA's #1 Fan
March 3, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
No, the flag pin should not be used to measure patriotism. However, since this question is basically in regards to Barak Obama I believe his patriotism should be questioned just as is should be for any presidential candidate in any party. If Mr. Obama subscribes to the beliefs of his Church which is committed to a 10 point specific vision then I think that the American people should know about it. This 10 point specific vision is laid out on their website for everyone to see. I believe that if he subscribes to these points then he should be questioned because to many these views might seem bias and dare I say it prejudiced. What we need is a commitment to America and all of its people and not to Africa or specific races of people. Here is the link to his church website. http://www.tucc.org/about.htmBy 4 ALL U MORONS
March 3, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
I would like to disspell some LIES about Barack refusing to “cover his heart”… *Is it true that Senator Barack Obama refused to put his hand on his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance and refused to say the Pledge? No. There are videos and pictures available on the web that show Barack Obama saying the Pledge of Allegiance on numerous occasions. This false rumor was spread with a picture that shows Obama standing next to Bill Richardson and Hillary Clinton. In the picture, Richardson and Clinton have their hand to their heart, but Obama does not. However, this was not taken during the Pledge of Allegiance, but rather during the singing of the National Anthem (which can be verified by watching a YouTube video of the event). This was during an informal, outdoor event for Democratic candidates. Although protocol suggests that the hand should be held to the heart during the National Anthem, observing any sporting event will show that only some Americans do so. But regardless of hand placement, most Americans stand respectfully during the National Anthem, which is what Obama was doing in that photograph. When his aides were asked about this, they replied that sometimes Obama puts his hand to his heart during the Anthem, and other times he does not. Regardless, there is a YouTube video showing Obama leading the Senate in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, and his hand can clearly be seen on his heart.* STOP THE LIES AND THINK FOR YOURSELVES PEOPLE INSTEAD OF ALLOWING, HANNITY, LIMBAUGH, GALLAGHER AND ALL OF THEM FOOLS THINK FOR YOU!!By Mike
March 3, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Obama’s decision to wear a flag lapel is irrelevant. That being said, the left is generally contemptuous of the concept of patriotism. A ww2 vet opened up a “Museum of Patriotism” in midtown. It regularly vandalized with anti-Bush and anti-America graffitti. It isn’t that all liberals are unpatriotic. It is just that most unpatriotic people are liberals. (Kind of like the Muslim-terrorist relationship.)By 4 the idiots
March 3, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
I would like to disspell some LIES about Barack refusing to “cover his heart”… *Is it true that Senator Barack Obama refused to put his hand on his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance and refused to say the Pledge? No. There are videos and pictures available on the web that show Barack Obama saying the Pledge of Allegiance on numerous occasions. This false rumor was spread with a picture that shows Obama standing next to Bill Richardson and Hillary Clinton. In the picture, Richardson and Clinton have their hand to their heart, but Obama does not. However, this was not taken during the Pledge of Allegiance, but rather during the singing of the National Anthem (which can be verified by watching a YouTube video of the event). This was during an informal, outdoor event for Democratic candidates. Although protocol suggests that the hand should be held to the heart during the National Anthem, observing any sporting event will show that only some Americans do so. But regardless of hand placement, most Americans stand respectfully during the National Anthem, which is what Obama was doing in that photograph. When his aides were asked about this, they replied that sometimes Obama puts his hand to his heart during the Anthem, and other times he does not. Regardless, there is a YouTube video showing Obama leading the Senate in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, and his hand can clearly be seen on his heart.* STOP THE LIES AND THINK FOR YOURSELVES PEOPLE INSTEAD OF ALLOWING, HANNITY, LIMBAUGH, GALLAGHER AND ALL OF THEM FOOLS THINK FOR YOU!!By LydiasDad
March 3, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Refusing to wear the pin says a lot. It says that you’re not strong enough to debate those who say the US is a bad country. You’d rather just give in and stay neutral. Pathetic.By LydiasDad
March 3, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
And always the crazy liberals talk about freedom of speech, and freedom of expression, and how the military is fighting for Obama’s “right” to not wear the lapel pin. It’s just more ideological nonsense. Not a single Marine respects someone who refuses to wear the pin. As usual, reality is ignored by the left.By Truthman
March 3, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
BTW, I’m a serious liberal who has worked for DOD for 23-plus years. You neo-conmen and women can take your “liberals not patriotic” crap and shove it up YOUR A**E!!! I’m patriotic as Hell and I am quite sick and tired of AWOL, draft-dodging via-deferrments (Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Gingrich/Wolfowitz) sending my friends off to die for oil we don’t own.By William
March 3, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Flag pins are a easy way to remind oneself of their pride and like to show it. Not unlike when you vote, they give you a “I voted” and I bet most folks wear it with pride. I think any “device” or “object” is just a way to show respect or pride, or I participated etc in whatever the device/object represents. Nothing is super implied other than its basic reason for being. We shouldnt over examine it. If Barack Obama doesnt want to wear one then so be it, its his right as a citizen. There will be people who disagree and those who agree. It doesnt really matter what anyone else thinks, it only matters to him.By Bobb
March 3, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
I have not seen John McCain wearing a flag pin either.By Hellbent
March 3, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
Wearing a flag pin means as much as putting a fish decal on your car. It says nothing about who you really are. In fact, I am much more wary of people who blindly follow the crowd with their fake Christianity and jingoistic attitudes toward patriotism. Hell, just take a look at “The Patriot Act”, talk about anti patriotic! That’s okay, though, I wasn’t using my Civil Rights anyway!!By itsme
March 3, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
Patriots should talk the talk, walk the walk and wear the pin.By maximum
March 3, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Does wearing the US flag automatically make a person a patriot? Does wearing a cross automatically make people into Christians? Political ideologues wield power by manipulating the superficial.By Tom
March 3, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Let’s see, I sent soldiers to Iraqi for false reasons, underequipped them, didn’t prepared them for nation building, and kept them too long with no end in sight. But I wear a flag pin….I’m a patriot.By Truthman
March 3, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Maximum…Right on, Brother!!!!By Peter
March 3, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
Something that tends to get overlooked on the topic is that neo-cons (generally white males) tend to feel most comfortable with individuals with similar interests and viewpoints. How better to identify your buddies than to look for those symbols (they become very important under those circumstances). Similarly, if the candidate was not named after Washington (like all true Patriots) or belongs to a different church … he can’t represent their vested interests in perpetuating the white patriarchal society that’s most comfortable. Why else would they be called “conservatives” (resistant to change)?By gtwareagle
March 3, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
I don’t think it should be used as a crutch for phony patriotism, but I also think that protesting by not wearing it is just as lame. It’s comforting and when I see it I remember that he’s a public servant. Actions speak louder but its stupid to make a point out of not wearing it.By Mark
March 3, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
The GOP has done more un-patriotic things than Obama could ever do by not wearing a cheap piece of metal (probably made in China). Let’s see… sending our troops to war under-staffed, under-supplied and with no plan for victory… making it easier for corporate fat cats to ship jobs jobs overseas… given us $3.50 per gallon gasoline so that every American who isn’t a millionaire can feel the economic pinch. So all you pin wearing GOP pigs like Jack Kingston, go on back to Alpharetta or the sticks with your yellow-ribbon-bearing SUVs and take a long-hard look at the “patriotism” displayed by draft dodging leaders like George Bush and Dick Chaney and if you can look at yourself in the mirror afterward, you are the unpatriotic ones.By Jeff
March 3, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
I, personally, think making our children recite a mantra (Pledge of Allegiance) at a symbol (the flag) to be Orwellian and unAmerican. Obama’s church, UCC, while it does have a cross on the pulpit, is a Protestant sect that does not use symbols as much as the Catholics, Episcop’s, etc. I find the flag not patriotic, but iconclastic. The flag (even moreso a lapel pin) doesn not unite people, it divides people. The fact that this argument is on the front page of the Southeast’s largest paper’s website proves that.By Tim
March 3, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
Barack Obama should show his patriotism like Bush and the other Republicans: forget about the Constitution, trash the Bill of Rights, and wear and $.50 piece of plastic colored red, white, and blue!By Earl
March 3, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
What really rubs me is to see all the people here from some Third World country in their nine year old run down cars, most with illegal dealer drive off tags and probably no insurance sporting the flag from the Third World country they fled from, probably illegally so. If you fly a flag, it should at least be the one that represents the country you’re illeaglly stealing from.By Earl
March 3, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
What really rubs me is to see all the people here from some Third World country in their nine year old run down cars, most with illegal dealer drive off tags and probably no insurance sporting the flag from the Third World country they fled from, probably illegally so. If you fly a flag, it should at least be the one that represents the country you’re illeaglly stealing from.By Chris D'
March 3, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
Patriotism: devoted love, support, and defense of one’s country; national loyalty. Reading the definition of patriotism I see no reference to ones clothing or lack there of as an indicator. It is my understanding that as a member of Congress he has taken a sworn oath stating his allegiance to the Constitution of the United States. Thus devoting his love, support, and defense of his country and national loyalty.By Van
March 3, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
Yes, absolutely wearing a flag pin is the ultimate expression of patriotism. I am going to order my MADE IN CHINA American flag pin right now so I can be a patriot too.By The Truth
March 3, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
The truth is Barack does not have the credentials or experience to run a hot dog stand. The only reason he would win is people are sick of the same old corruption. Time for a new poser with new corruption and we the people get the same old rip off government.By Peaches
March 3, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Patriotism is love and pride for your country that transcends whether you are getting your way at the moment. Patriotism is a willingness to sacrifice to protect your nation from its enemies and a pride in it’s core values and central goodness. Patriotism is not measured by a lapel pin but it is also not measured by never being proud of your country until your husband runs for office. It is not about whining all the time for more. It is not about bashing the values of this country in favor of some other nation’s culture and values. It is not “supporting the troops” but being willing to cut and run on the mission for which they are sacrificing their lives. What a silly notion that you support the troops but not the mission.By W stands for worst
March 3, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Lydiasdad, You wrote: “And always the crazy liberals talk about freedom of speech, and freedom of expression, and how the military is fighting for Obama’s “right” to not wear the lapel pin. It’s just more ideological nonsense. Not a single Marine respects someone who refuses to wear the pin. As usual, reality is ignored by the left.” So i take it you have talked to every marine? I have talked to many marines and they dont care if you were the lapel pin or not, like they almost said to a man, “wearing a pin doesnt give us the equipment we need to fight” I feel bad for Lydia….By Truthman
March 3, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
What really rubs me the wrong way is to see all these American Soldiers running around my country with their American flags on their shoulders! If they fly a flag, at least it should be the one that represents the country you’re illegally stealing from!! Signed, Mohammad How’s that sound, Earl?By kristin
March 3, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Funny thing about a pin that I got from an old employer after Sept 11, it had a sticker on the back stating that it was “Made in China”. How’s that for patritism.By Deployed overseas guy
March 3, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Although I agree that the wearing of pins and the display of yellow stickers on cars are hardly qualifications for patriotism, exactly how patriotic is it when he will pull the troops out, watch the region turn into all out civil wars and power grabs, only to see me and my boys back in to start our hard work all over again in a few years? It’s a nice sound byte that he “wants to bring the troops home,” but it’s short sighted and nieve. Ideas are one thing, but having an actual plan is another.By Debbie
March 3, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
Geez … so many stupid, uneducated comments … so little time!!!! So, I’ll just pick two to respond to: First, to the very first blogger - if NOT wearing a pin shows ‘profound disrespect’ - then I guess the majority of the U.S. Citizens are profoundly disrespectful! I don’t wear one, no one I know wears one, do you wear one? How ridiculous that you would equate respect with a cheap piece of jewelry!! Second: To the person who said “Not a single Marine respects someone who refuses to wear the pin. As usual, reality is ignored by the left.” Well, see response in the paragraph above - again, I guess the Marines don’t respect the majority of U.S. citizens according to your blog. And “Reality is ignored by the Left”??????????? Wow!! I believe it’s those of us to the Left that are fighting for and voting for someone who will bring our troops home, give us a break on unafforable health care, increase money for our education, bring American jobs back to America, unify our country again! If that’s not reality, you must be talking about some other country!! To you and those of you on the right, get your heads out of the sand!!! Just because the majority of you don’t have ‘income issues’ doesn’t mean the majority of the nation doesn’t!!!By Owin Ozymandias Buck
March 3, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Whatever. The rah-rah crowd has really worn on me the last few years. I’m an Army veteran of the first gulf war, and did several years in the Guard when I got out. I have good friends and family members who have served in this war in Iraq. I had serious doubts about this war. I felt really conflicted that I felt so; it wasn’t what I expected from my country and more over—I never thought I’d be the one in the minority opposing military action. Although I have moments where I think I’m a closet pacifist, I really just don’t like poorly planned, foolish missions with no clear purpose. Powell ignored his own doctrine. He was one of true heroes. His silence since this mess has really been an eye opener. Whatever general. Go to hell. When folks tried to talk to me about it they were surprised and even indignant about my opinions. I even had one man say to me, “I thought you were a veteran!” So yeah. Cheap, blind patriotism gets to me. I especially hate folks questioning my patriotism when they see the Obama sticker on my car. I get what the man is saying, even though we have might have totally different experiences. It’s still brought us to the same place. He says he will truly listen to his commanders. Maybe I’m just tired of cynicism masquerading as wisdom, but I believe him when he says it. Anyway, I fly the flag over my house. But it means something slightly different to me than to the Hawks.By Peter
March 3, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Peaches - A good item by Helen Thomas about the final justification for continued fighting after all the other reasons for invading Iraq prove to be mistakes. Perhaps you are not old enough to remember how we just couldn’t get out of Vietnam. (It cost 58,178 U.S. men and women their lives.) If it were up to Duh-bya we’s still be engaged it that war (with additional casualties). Where would you draw the line?By Abomi Nation
March 3, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
This country has been a disaster under the leadership of George W Bush and the rest of the Republicans that enabled him. Republicans cannot win this election based on the track record of last 7 years. This is all they have. Faux outrage that panders to the scared people that want to keep their heads in the sand. Coming this summer….Gay marriage scare tactics and the flag amendment. The problem with that is Americans now know better. We will no longer tolerate the gross incompetence.By frank simmons
March 3, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
The unique thing about the Obama candidancy for me is that because of his and his wife’s speeches i feel very involved in politics again like I did in 1972 when I first became of age to vote. In 2004 I felt involved somewhat again but nothing like I am now. The key thing I’ve noted about Barack Obama is that my direct involvement is more emphasized.To me that symbolizes exactly what the polical process was meant to be. To me he is a leader that inspires me but I still need to be more actively involved to make it work. It is more than electing a president and then walking away thinking everything will be OK but rather, his presidency represents a change with my constant engagement with politics from the bottom up rather than from the top down at all levels of government. I see why so many young people are excited with his candidancy. None of the other candidates are making this point to me. This is transforming the process and making me feel more empowered. Politics and worldly,global actions are based on the little people having more of a “say” than before. Think about it. The will of the people does matter.By Truthman
March 3, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Oh, how I love Helen Thomas!!By Deployed overseas guy
March 3, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
It takes more than being charismatic and telling the people what they want to hear to be a true leader. As a guy who is currently serving overseas, I hope to God that Obama doesn’t win. I would hate to see all of this hard earned success and work get flushed down the toilet. There were some bad decisions made, no doubt, but atleast we didn’t run away the second a Blackhawk got shot down this time. It may give some of you guys a warm and fuzzy feeling when the troops come home, but for the vast majority of us here, it’s like you just p** away the blood we’ve already spilled. Anybody else remember how crappy the feeling was in America after we left Vietnam for the better part of a decade? The world’s lone superpower runs away because everything didn’t go exactly as planned and we couldn’t easy-bake you a war this time. Pathetic.By dave
March 3, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Sendng troops into battle for personal gain and profit for both yourself and your friends…is by FAR the most unpatriotic thing one can do for their country. Standing up and saying that it “was wrong, is wrong, and continues to be wrong” is what a true patriot does. Pins are for sissy’s like “dubya” and Jack Kingston. Real men have the courage to say what is right, what is true, and what is just. Obama is a million times the man those two clowns could ever hope to be.By dave
March 3, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Great post John! ;-) You forgot to say “SUV” as oppossed to car. Remember… global warming is a “myth” and that it’s better to drill in ANWAR than to find and fund alternative sources of energy. Staying addicted to oil has done so well for the country the past 7 years. Being a true patriot is telling your closet advisors to ignore a subpoena and lying under oath. Heck…it’s more patriotic to not ever “testify under oath” like Bush and Cheney did… because it PROVED they had nothing to hide…By Deployed overseas guy
March 3, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave, I suppose he know about 9-11 before it happened too right? Wow, you Obamanites are really amazing. You guys are not only falling for the silver tounge, but you’re becoming straight up fanactical about it. Promises … promises … promises …By dave
March 3, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Hey Deployed overseas guy…good thing your job is to not think and just follow orders. perhaps they keep telling you over and over that we are the world’s only superpower…ever hear of a country called China? Not only can they now match our military, we owe them such much $$$$ that if they ever called out our loans to them (thanks to Dubya and Co.) we’d have a depression 10 times worse then what took place in the 1930’s… keep thinking what you’re doing over there is for the good of the country and the world. I know it’s not your fault and support you BEING a soilder…but your leaders have caused so much more harm to the world that it prbably will not be fixed for 4 or 5 generations if ever.. then again…all empires die…every one…the roman, french, english, etc. we too…have very limited days before we bow down to the next empire…china… does not mean that anyone is better then anyone else…we placed all our chips on oil…and now we’re losing… the terrorists you fight…well they were not there before you were sent there…and the new ones that are created everyday to avenge your actions…they too will continue to grow the longer you stay there… there are NO WINNERS in this war…everyone loses…By Deployed Overseas Guy
March 3, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
Dave, “Trained not to think and only follow orders?” HAHA … and then you want to “support me being a soldier?” WOW! This whole we support the troops, but don’t support the war is a crock. It’s the same thing from Vietnam, only this time it’s disguised to look pretty. How about you just tell me what you really think instead of spinning it? That way I can tell you to kiss my a** and noone has any failures of understanding. You’ve never had to sacrifice anything for what you’ve got, and don’t even know what war really is. The closet you’ve probably ever been to one is seeing one at the movies are playing video games. Same hippies, different cloths.By Donald Baxter
March 3, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
I was in downtown Iowa City the other day and say one of those magnetic ribbon things the other day—it was white and on one side of the ribbon it said “EMPTY” and the other side said “GESTURE.” I think that sums it up! Donald Baxter, University Heights, IowaBy Dusty
March 3, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Well, Wearing a flag pin shows a little more patriotism than saying “I am antiwar ” during wartime. But that is Obama for you. His brand of patriotism. Showing real patriotism is politically incorrect. So Obama does not wear a flag pin. Too provincial. Nor does he support the war in Iraq. That would show patriotism. There you have it. CHANGE! Don’t show support for your country. Someone might know you are an American. That would disgrace liberals.By mamaj
March 3, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
You can no more tell a person’s patriotism by wearing a flag lapel pin, than you can tell a person’s degree of Christianity by the number of times he goes to church! Your choice of what patriotism is, has nothing to do with what I think it is!By Pappy
March 3, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
The reaction by conservatives to this issue underscore the fact that they are out of ideas.By Pat
March 3, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Obama created a controversy by making a verbal statement about not wearing a flag pin. He did not remove the pin “quietly.” He basically said that he is more patriotic than those who wear a flag pin. It’s just more of his doubletalking garbage. The more I find out about this guy, the less I trust him.By Toby Miller
March 3, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Wearing a pin does not make you patriotic. Good Lord Jay Bookman is an idiot - patroitism does not have one thing to do with daring to be different or a willingness to air your doubts. Patriotism denotes positive and supportive attitudes to a ‘fatherland’ (Latin patria < Greek patris, πατρίς), by individuals and groups. The ‘fatherland’ (or ‘motherland’) can be a region or a city, but patriotism usually applies to a nation and/or a nation-state. Patriotism covers such attitudes as: pride in its achievements and culture, the desire to preserve its character and the basis of the culture, and identification with other members of the nation.By smp
March 3, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
As far as Obama’s pin, I don’t give a dadgum whether he wears it or not….in fact, even having served valiantly in the military is no evidence that one would make a good president (Grant, anyone??). Additionally, some of us don’t like to wear our beliefs on our sleeves so to speak. Though I generally vote Democrat, I would resent someone trying to make me feel like I ought to wear shirts or pins or put signs in my yard attesting to that fact. Maybe Obama is like that. deployed overseas guy—-I appreciate your service in our defense. But I have to disagree on our Iraq solutions. I don’t think even 100 years will be enough to pacify the Middle East—if ever—after all, when has it ever been peaceful?? That’s why I say bring them home sooner rather than later. And I know a few people who served there who agree with that.By DebbieDoRight
March 3, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Jack Kingston started the controversy over Obama not wearing the flag pin while he, Kingston, wasn’t wearing his. It’s amazing how easily you repuglicans are fooled and transfixed by hyperbole and bright shiny objects…….By Hellbent
March 3, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
DebbieDoRight: You may need to translate Hyperbole for these people.By Pat
March 3, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Toby, that was great. There is nothing wrong with being proud of our country. Patriotism is a good thing, especially when we are blessed to live in the USA. I thank God that I was born here as opposed to so many places where there are no freedoms or food or opportunities. Obama is trying to make a display of “speaking truth to power.” But that is just stupid because Obama is part of the power structure. He’s rich, ivy league educated and running for President of the United States of America.By Pat
March 3, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Jack Kingston may be resparking the controversy that Obama already started. Again, Obama did not “quietly” stop wearing a flag lapel pin. He made it into a political statement. Jack Kingston may be stepping into Obama’s playbook, but it is Obama’s playbook and no one else’s. BTW, I could care less if O wears a pin. He did not have to tell me that he consciously was not going to wear it.By Dave
March 3, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
I am reminded that our founding fathers were “disloyal” to their nation and government, including the troops that were protecting them from the French and the Indians. They spoke out against their government’s actions and held true to their values. That’s what made them patriots.By catlady
March 3, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
“Well, your flag decal won’t get you into Heaven any more, they’re already overcrowded, from this dirty little war. Now Jesus don’t like killin’ no matter what the reason for, and your flag decal won’t get you into Heaven anymore.” Thank you John Prine.By DebbieDoRight
March 3, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
How long have those pins been in existence? When did Obama make it into a “political statement” and not a personal one? Did he call a press conference or go on a talk show and rant about his not wearing the pin, (like say, Jack Kingston did)?By pat
March 3, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
gtwareagle - Well said. Making a point of not wearing the flag pin is just as lame as thinking it proves that you are a patriot.By Peter
March 3, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Pat - While the U.S. p** $200 million dollars a day into the QUAGMIRE in Iraq, we are reduced to this item from “60 Minutes” - Remote Area Medical sets up emergency clinics where the needs are greatest. But these days, that’s not the Amazon. This charity founded to help people who can’t reach medical care finds itself throwing America a lifeline. The Bush Administration (with tax cuts for the rich) is turning this country into a third world nation. Count your blessings if the health care crisis or financial crisis haven’t hit you yet. (You are becoming a minority now.)By Tom
March 3, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Dave @3:22 is almost but not quite right. The Founders weren’t disloyal. They were traitors and their declaration of independence from the crown was an act of treason. As they very well knew.By Jogger
March 3, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
I think the reason is a bunch of doodoo. He should wear it. It is not like the pin will hurt anyone or anything. It is just a pin to honor the people of 9/11. I guess “Huessin” does not want to.By ND
March 3, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Obama is not being unpatriotic. He is protesting against the morons who think disagreeing with government policy makes you a traitor. Unfortunately most people are not intelligent enough to understand his decision.By Pat
March 3, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Peter, I’m still proud of the USA and thankful that I live here. I’ve been through many crises and so has our country. Thank God those people are helping and people received help. Thank God for the many charities and churches that help people all the time. Do you suggest that I should hate my country because some people do not have health insurance? I was raised without health insurance. It was pay as you go then, but things are different now. Maybe it would help if the government used abortion subsidies to help people without health insurance instead of for abortions. Maybe kids should pack their lunches instead of getting free lunch at school. We could use that money elsewhere, too. Farm subsidies, now there’s an expensive program. Quit subsidizing farmers and use it for universal health care. “the poor will always be with us.” Thank God for people who are willing to roll up their sleeves and help others. There are a lot of these good people in America. We even send tons of money all around the world to others for their health, farming, eating, clothing needs. We are a great country.By Steverino
March 3, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
If he won’t wear one on his lapel, he should at LEAST wear one on his turban.By DebbieDoRight
March 3, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
I guess “Huessin” does not want to Oh my are we down to making fun of other people’s names (name calling) because we can’t think of a logical retort or response that has any substance? At least try to sound halfway intelligent or pretend like you’re really putting forth an effort!!! Name calling….sheesh!!By W stands for waterboarding
March 3, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Deployed overseas guy, Dont know your history much do ya? First we are succeeding because we are paying the people who were our enemies a year ago. Also after the Marine barracksin Lebanon was bombed killing over 250 Marines we packed up and left with no repercussions. So the real reason you want us to stay is because you probably work for Halliburton or Blackwater…By Dave
March 3, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Pinheads.By Pat
March 3, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Obama made his statement about not wearing the flag pin sometime in October 2007. He said he is making a statement by not wearing the pin. I don’t care if he wears it or not. He cares that we notice. I did not catch Kingston so I do not know for sure if anything he said should be characterized as a “rant.”By Goebbels
March 3, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Look at how the Bush years have people questioning others’ patriotism? Do you really think this is a a good thing?By Goebbels
March 3, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Look at how the Bush years have people questioning others’ patriotism.. Do you really think this is a a good thing?By FarLeftIdiots
March 3, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
I see a far left idiot convention on this board. Pulling troops out will be a disaster for the US. Sure, it sounds good on paper, and I’m sure it even FEELS good, but it’s just plain stupid. But why let facts and consequences get in your way, right? It’s not whether or not you wear the lapel pin, but your reason for taking it off. That’s the problem.By dave
March 3, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
I myself think it’s been much more “patriotic” to spend, spend, spend, us into a record breaking deficit while giving huge tax rebates to the oil companies while they make record profits (funny but did not Dubya and Darth work for oil companies and have friends in those places?…)…. Beating the drums of war and lying to your country and refusing to testify under oath is patriotic too… well you “talibangelicals” down here in GA keep worrying about pins…ok? it those of “you” that worry about “pins” that got us into this mess in the first place… by voting for “values”…. and voting for a war to kill those not like you…in a country that was full of innocent people until we got there and messed it up… well guess what? gays still have sex… abortion is still legal… and GA is still down at the barrel with regards to SAT’s…maybe Jack Kingston can find something better to worry about… like gay abortion providers that tutor SAT prep tests on the weekends to your kids! ;-)