Opinion Talk

By Steve Dollar

April 23, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Mr Bookman,

You either didn’t read the book or you’re just a liar.

By jeff

April 23, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

What is wrong with drug dealers, prostitutes, and illegal immigrants paying their fair share of taxes? When you put everyone in to the tax paying pool it’s easy to see how there will be plenty of tax income for the feds to spend. I also like the idea of keeping my entire paycheck, WOW, and being able to decide how much in taxes I pay be deciding how much I will buy. Sound like the American Dream to me, count me in!

By Jim

April 23, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

You just don’t get do you Jay? Have you read the book that explains this idea? I doubt it. Low income Americans don’t pay taxes now. You forgot to mention that people would keep ALL of their paycheck each week. You forgot to mention that more American jobs would be created as overseas companies move their operations back to the US. Oh, and did you mention that the cost of goods and services would go DOWN? Did you mention that the IRS and all of the costs associated with it (billions) would be eliminated? April 15th would be just another day. Do your homework Jay and quit misleading people.

By Mad Dog

April 23, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

Steve Dollar,

The book was written by liars just to brain wash you.

One of the lies is calling the Fair????Tax voluntary. It’s like calling the current tax system voluntary.

If you don’t make money/spend money, you don’t pay any taxes.

Liars wrote the book, and idiots believe the book to be the final version of the tax gospel.

By Tim

April 23, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

What an embarassing entry. You might want to remove it before you are blasted for ignorance. The Fair Tax changes the whole system. It almost completely gets rid of the IRS. It gets rid of embedded taxes at every level of manufacturing and distribution. It is not about balancing our current tax system. It is about creating efficiencies (low hanging fruit in the case of the U.S. tax system) and passing it on to the citizens.

You should understand the system before you try and poke holes in it. You might try and call in to the Boortz show but given that it appears that you have performed little or no due diligence on the proposed reform, he might not even take your call.

By Tom

April 23, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Thank you Mr. Bookman for exposing the lies of the fair “to the rich” tax.

By Jeff

April 23, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

With a name like Dollar you would think he would know something about them, dollars.

Take off the democrat blinders and have a look around!

By jeff

April 23, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

In my anger towards the left I made my last response to Mr. Dollar, I appologize, it was meant for mad dog. Sorry Mr. Dollar!

By lopro

April 23, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Mr. Bookman, are you even educated? Research before you post such ignorant rantings. Economics is not as simple as plugging one number into a calculator to make an end-all argument against (or for) a system.

The FairTax is not a new concept that you may have heard about just last week. It has been thorughly studied in its present form. Other similar systems have been instituted in some former Soviet nations with outstanding success.

Why are you looking for SOMEONE to pay more? Why can’t we all save some of our hard-earned money? Yes, President Bush earns his money too.

By Al

April 23, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

It’s obvious that Bookman has a problem with upper income people encountering a savings from the Fair Tax.

You spend more, you pay more taxes.

Bookman is an idiot because he just can’t allow people to save money. According to idiots like Bookman, that racist Tucker and the Hildabeast, it’s not your money, it’s the government’s money, and they will decide who can keep it.

By Brian Darby

April 23, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Hmmm… should I believe the over $22 million dollars of research…or an AJC editor?

By Roger Daniels

April 23, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

I thought being a reporter meant doing some reporting, or research. If this reporter did not read the book, why is he writing about it? People read and believe your columns. You should not mislead your readers. The Fair Tax is not about George Bush, it’s about Americans getting what we desearve - a fair tax system.

By a

April 23, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

fair tax is conservative talk show host folly… it would create a black market for EVERYTHING

By RoY

April 23, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

The FairTax is the most thoroughly researched piece of tax reform legislation ever presented to the U.S. Congress. Well over $20 million has been spent on economic and sociological research in putting this plan together, and the research continues to this day. Still, though, we have a tax reform proposal that actually transfers power to the people, and this is just not to be tolerated — especially by the left. So the procedure is to develop a list of lies and half-truths about the FairTax and then use those lies to go on the attack.

Such is the path that was taken in today’s Atlanta Journal-Constitution by Jay Bookman, the deputy editorial page editor. Bookman is a fervent liberal, a huge believer in the cause of big government. Perhaps he’s most troubled by the fact that the FairTax would constitute the biggest transfer of power from the government to the people since the formation of this country. He also may be upset that if the FairTax were to become the law of the land politicians would no longer be able to pursue their class warfare goals through tax policy. With the FairTax Jay Bookman would no longer be able to write opinion pieces relating to tax matters with constant references to “the richest 1%” and phrases like “pay their fair share.”

So … why pick on Jay Bookman today? Because he has a column in today’s AJC entitled “Fervent faith in FairTax defies reason.” First, a small critique. It’s “FairTax.” One word .. with the F and the T capitalized. No big deal? Well, you could actually read the bill or the book and discover this fact, or a few Google clicks. Besides .. the name is trademarked. I’m sure Mr. Bookman has a great fondness for accuracy .. so this should matter to him.

Wait! Did I say Jay Bookman had a fondness for accuracy? Sorry. By the second paragraph of his column we find out that this is not so. There he is, doing what so many other critics of the FairTax have done, blatantly lying about its terms. Bookman writes “Instead, those taxes will be replaced with a retail sales tax of 30 percent on all services and new goods.”

That is flat-out wrong, and he knows it to be flat-out wrong. Bookman has adopted the “first lie, then critique” policy of the FairTax opponents. The FairTax is a 23% inclusive tax, not 30%. The FairTax is a replacement for the income tax, so it is calculated using the same methods we use to calculate the income tax. You know —- comparing apples to apples and all that? I wonder if someone would do me the favor of researching the writings of one Jay Bookman to find out if he ever quotes our income tax on an exclusive basis. If he did, he would find out that the top rate is somewhere well over 50%. But wait! He likes the income tax, so those figures will be reported honestly.

The problem here is that you just know that if a critique of the FairTax contains a blatant and intentional misrepresentation in the second paragraph, there is not much that will follow that can be treated seriously. Sure enough … in the very next paragraph Bookman says that Congressman Linder has claimed that the FairTax would force prices down by as much as 30%. Wrong again. That figure is closer to 22%.

And so it goes. Misrepresent, then attack. The tactics of the left.

Hey … here’s an idea! I’m up for a fight right now. How about a public debate somewhere? Jay Bookman and me! Look, I’ve debated Yale tax law professors and former deputy assistant Treasury secretaries on the FairTax, I think I might be able to stand up pretty well against a deputy editorial page editor who finds it necessary to lie about an idea before he can criticize it.

Date and time? We’ll work it out!

By the way …. don’t forget we’re going to have a huge FairTax Rally in Columbia, South Carolina on the evening of May 15th. Details to follow.

By Laverne

April 23, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

Oh Simple Mad Dog, the Fair Tax is voluntary because each individual decides what he/she wants to purchase and hence pay taxes on. Since you think Boortz and Linder are liars, it is likely you did not even read the book. Try it! They spell out their ideas for even the simple-minded to understand.

By Thomas

April 23, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Mad Dog,

Very intelligent commentary explaining your oppostion to the Fair Tax. Since you cannot add a resonable dissent, you go to the tried and true “name calling”. Liars?? Give some proof. Oh, you left out “nazis”. Go back to your playbook.

By Steve

April 23, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Lets see… i want a tax that taxes what i produce and earn or i want a tax that taxes what i consume and use… hmm.. i wonder which one is more fair? Would getting rid of the IRS really be such a bad thing? Get a grip

By Shea

April 23, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Here is some food for thought. I currently have my own business. I have so many deductions that I pay very little taxes on any level. Under the fair tax I will certainly pay a tremendously higher overall tax as I purchase many, many goods. But what “fair” is fair and I do not mind paying my equal share. You doubters out there will continue to bless the power hungry in Washington to be able to minipulate our screwed up tax system. Yes they love the gifts and trips given to them by lobbists so that they tack on tax break earmarks on every bill that passes. Quit griping about who may save a little and pay more. WE HAVE TO GET A TAX SYSTEM THAT TAKES POWER AWAY FROM THE LEGISTATORS. Corruption will never end in any country or government until the end of time… but we certainly have the ability to learn from our mistakes and limit it as much as possible.

By Jerry Dunn

April 23, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Guess what I don’t care if I pay more or less under the Fair Tax. Although I definetly believe I will pay less. Cause my main thing is that the Fair Tax means less hassle, no paperwork for the individual to deal with, no wondering if you can take a deduction or not. If I want to pay less in taxes then just spend less. If I want to pay more then spend more. And as someone else said earlier with the Fair Tax drug dealers, illegal immigrants and tourists would pay their fair share of taxes for a change.

By Akagi

April 23, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

The tax is 100% voluntary since the tax is only applied once you purchase something and it is you that decides what to buy and when.

Also corporations do not pay taxes now—they simply collect them. These taxes are paid by the consumers in the form of higher prices.

By Russell

April 23, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Step 1) Read book Step 2) Open mouth

Not the opposite.

By Cooter Bob

April 23, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Bookman is so far left that even if he believes a plan like this to work (which it would), he would not approve of it. Liberalism is a mental disorder!!

By Berry

April 23, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

What is interesting to me is that our own state legislation is looking into the fair tax at the state level with regards to state and income tax. It was introduced this past week. It seems to me that this would be a great alternative to the federal bureaucracy that is occuring in Congress.

By Peter

April 23, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Those in the upper income ranges, who weekend and vacation abroad … . will pay consumption taxes in foreign countries? (The mega rich will hoard their welfare windfall.)

No chance of a black market that might appear if we switched to a “fair tax?”

I pay $123,000 for a new house (with tax included) and only expect $100,000 on resale? (The assumption being that only the first purchase will be taxed and future buyers will not have that expense.) That’s crazy ! ! !

By Casey

April 23, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

This is a good example of why ignorant people shouldn’t write articles on topics they know nothing about. Don’t be lazy Bookman… do some research before you embarrass yourself even more. The class warfare rhetoric is getting pretty old.

By Casey

April 23, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

This is a good example of why ignorant people shouldn’t write articles on topics they know nothing about. Don’t be lazy Bookman… do some research before you embarrass yourself even more. The class warfare rhetoric is getting pretty old.

By Jack

April 23, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

The Fair Tax would eliminate being paid “under the table”. Everyone would be equal when it comes to a paycheck!

There would be no Federal withholdings.

I would surmise that after your state sees what a wonderful process this Fair Tax is, that they would implement it as well. You would only be taxed when you spend! You would not be taxed on the basic necessities of life!

By Dave

April 23, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Seriously - Read the book and then try to comment on it. This says a lot about reporters / columnists when it is so obvious you are commenting on somethng you haven’t even read.

By Typical Liberal Editorial Writer...

April 23, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

This is so typical of a liberal. You can’t argue or debate the issue on the facts, so you just simply make things up out of thin air to try to make your point.

I can’t believe how incredibly lame and weak your argument is, which consists of just making up numbers out of the blue and thinking that somehow proves your point.

One other point, your column completely misrepresents the facts of the fair tax pertaining to the rate. Are you even aware of the concept of an inclusive tax versus an exclusive tax? Based on your writings, you obviously have no understanding of those two concepts or economics in general. Journalists should not try to pretend that they are economists.

Oh and by the way, lets see how much conviction you truely have behind your argument and stance on this issue. Neal Boortz has challenged you to a debate. Will you actually show some backbone and take him up on the offer, or will you do what so many liberal columnists do, and just hide under your desk?

If you don’t take him up on the offer, it is an implicit admission that you know how weak your argument is and that it would be debunked in a resounding fashion.

Come on Jay, man up and debate Neal you intellectually dishonest weasel.

By Russ

April 23, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

Thanks Mad Dog,

People like you who cannot articulate opinions and revert to name calling to defend a political opinion make the fight for a true “Fair Tax” even easier. We miss people like you and Cynthia McKinney .People like you make others run from the Democratic Party. Who wants to be associated with hot head name callers such as yourself & McKinney. It is so easy to look smart next to people like you two.

The only politicians against it are the ones who try to get votes form people who obtain their income illegally and pay no state or national income tax. How could any one who works a legal job not love the Fair Tax Plan ?

Finally drug dealers & illegal immigrants can contribute finacially to a society they have never done anything but burden fiancially in the past. Is not great to now get some revenue from drug dealers since the honest American’s tax dollars has been funding their prosecution and investigations for decades.

A fair tax would do wonders for the Latin Immigration Issue. All illegal immigrants should be for this. The #1 reason current American Citizens are so against illegal immigrants is due to the impossible task of taxation without something as simple and useful as the Fair Tax Plan that would tax everyone in the country based on how much they choose to consume. THAT MY FRIEND IS FREEDOM !!!

Democrats against this plan argue: How can every one save money on taxes ? Some body’s taxes must go up for this to balance out. They just don’t have the guts to be honest with you. The buck is past on to: 1. All the foreign tourist who visit are country annualy spending billion of $$ annually. 2. Millions of Illegal Immigrants currently paid cash under the table 3. All the $$$$$ from illegal drug dealers. Now their rims, fancy cars, and bling bling, and all their other showy crap will be taxed.

Finally America has a plan that makes since !!!!

By Christi

April 23, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

The fair tax is the way to go. This is the greatest country in the world and yet the IRS and the current tax system snubs the kind of financial independence that could turn this country around. Imagine getting government out of making a living. The fair tax would allow a man to make money for his family without redtape, he could work with his hands and own his own destiny. I have a small business and I could hire employees, provide more opp. to others if I did not have the hassle with taxes.

By Bill

April 23, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Yup, the numbers are way out of whack between the column and the book.

Something has not been mentioned is the PREBATE. Under Jay’s example (and not talked about ANYWHERE in his column), that couple making 40,000/yr. would receive a prebate, basically giving them funds to counteract the “tax increase”.

Also, what few fail to do is look to the state of Florida as an example. they have no personal income tax, just an exclusive sales tax. If I want to save money, I don’t spend as much down there.

If Florida and several other states have some form of a FairTax (as close of a working example as one can find) and it has worked for years, why be afraid of something that can bring true wealth and jobs back to the US and give the working poor a chance at a better job and life, AND reduce their tax burden by giving them a check every month?

Geez……

By John

April 23, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

If it has not occured to eveyone, the Fair Tax would almost solve the illegal immigration problem all by itself. Or the entire country would reap the benefit of an influx in tax revenue due to the underground economy now paying their fair share.

Illegals would automatically become tax paying “citizens” and if they wished to secure any type of prebate, they would have to register somehow. If they register, we’ve solved the registration issue. If they elect to “not” register, they would have no choice but to increase the cost for their services since they would now be paying taxes that they had not paid in the past everytime they purchase something here in the US.

This might then make this labor force more competitive with law-abiding, tax-paying individuals performing the same work.

Overnight, we would have solved much of the problem of the underground economy that is currently paying NO tax. The benefit would be to eveyone…rich or poor…but perhaps just not to illegal aliens. This might go a long way to help pay for schools, healthcare, and social services that are being utilized by these illegal workers and their families, or for that matter anyone in the underground economy.

Finally, Mr. Bookman should worry less about what other people do or do not pay and read the book. Then I’d encourage him to be honest with his readers.

By jeff

April 23, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Hey Bookman, if you don’t think it will work and you would enjoy proving it, tell everyone to support it and if it fails, you can say ” I told you so.”

By Fisher

April 23, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Bookman, you lie! You lie! You lie! And you do it with malice aforethough! Not only do you cite the conditions incorrectly, you do the calculations incorrectly! All with the intention to confuse and mislead. Typical liberal crap! At least educate yourself before you try to say something to others.

First of all, the sales tax is 23% not 30 percent. Secondly, everyone pays that hiddent 23 percent sales tax already including the poor. At least they will not have to pay it under the Fair Tax. Secondly, you can expect the wealthy to pay more tax because they will SPEND more! And all of us will have more to spend.

There are no smoke and mirrors here. Read the Fair Tax book. All of it! And quit taking things out of context just to support YOUR preconceived concepts.

If your column is representative of how the AJC reports its other news, it isn’t even fit to wrap garbage and you should be ashamed to even accept a paycheck for your stuff. But then, we know that you have no honor, don’t we.

By Hank

April 23, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

Which of you “busniness owners” are going to lower your prices?

Then, if this boondoggle ever gets enacted we can see whether you’re a money hungry wh0re or a decent person.

I’m putting some of my money on “wh0re” but I’m putting most of it on “you’re too much of a putz to man up and speak.”

By MadCactus

April 23, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

As a small business owner, I am constantly amazed at how many “honest” small business people pay their employees under the table. And I am not just talking about the “undocumented” among us; the vast majority of the individuals I come across are full blooded, red, white and blue Americans. They get paid under the table, and then collect from those of us who are honest come April 15th. There is a huge untapped segment of the population that currently cheats our outdated system.

By GenXDen

April 23, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

I find it funny that people are attacking “Mad Dog” for name calling yet they’re using derogatory terms in their attacks (not all, mind you, just some) which simply means they are no better (or worse) in their response. Had to get that out of my system.

On to serious matters…can someone recommend a good site to really learn more about this? I don’t want just one side of the story…I would like to read the pro’s and con’s. I admit that I’ve been somewhat remiss in exploring what this movement is truly about but was thinking (whilst doing my taxes) that I really needed to educate myself about this!!

By R. S.

April 23, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

Mr. Bookman, You must be a graduate of our public school system, so sorry that you don’t undersatnd the simple concept of the “Fair Tax” system. read the book, whoops! forgot, public school graduate.

By jeff

April 23, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Prices are driven by the market and competition, when one business lowers their prices to drive sales, which they can because the tax burden is gone, other businesses will as well. Simple economics.

By Common Sense

April 23, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Hank, the free market drives competition. One of the tactics competitors use to attract more customers than their rival is by lowering the price of goods and services. Competition will bring the price tag down. Also, with businesses not having to pay imbeded federal taxes anymore, they will be able to afford to lower prices. But I guess you know this anyway based on the intelligence level you so eloquently demonstrated in your entry.

By fairtax.org

April 23, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

fairtax.org

By Hegelian

April 23, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

This Fair Tax marches in lock step with the REAL ID Act. How? Have you ever been carded for beer or smokes when you are obviously over 40 or 50 years old? Or seen a card carrying AARP member get the same ridiculous request in front of you at the checkout line? Ridiculous right? Well, in order for our loving benefactors (Govt) to further develop their agenda— they need to do a few things such as: 1) complete the picture as to our purchasing habits motives, etc… 2) eliminate cash—since everything will be purchased by swiping your “Card”— currently a credit card/debit card— but the next phase is attaching the drivers license to those accounts, 3) attaching the taxing mechanism to the purchaseof items of desire—and more importantly necessity— so as the phony Conservative/Libertarian Boortz can say with some element of truth— it is an indirect tax— ie: only charged to you if you purchase the product.
Problem is— the IRS should then be totally eliminated—but it won’t. They have already conceded that it will be reduced, or almost totally eliminated. Guess what…when the IRS was first introduced in 1913 the argument was that we needed it and it started as only a 1% tax on the wealthy and it could never ever possibly reach levels in excess of 20% or so—that would be outrageous (<—sarcasm). As homework, just take a look at what the rates peaked at… Anyway, it was incrementally foisted upon us and look at it now. Now, a complex database can and will be kept on just what you buy, when you buy it and how much you buy of it. Then, do you think health care companies will want that data? You bet. Will their rates rise or fall? You better believe your diet better have tofu, rabbit food and other such things on it in order to keep your rates low.
Don’t be the joker at the party buying the keg of beer in your name.
There is something sweet about anonymity and the government hates it. Remember in life there are good reasons for laws and there are also the REAL reasons for laws. Politicians are groomed at the art of selling the good reasons and tap dancing around the real ones….

By Fisher

April 23, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

To GenXDen You can get full details of the Fair Tax at www.fairtax.org They can give you the skinny.

For opposing views, you can try moveon.org, Bookman’s favorite site, but they won’t tell the truth any more than Bookman did.

By Jozef

April 23, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

Mr. Bookman,

Most of my reaction to your article has been already expressed by others, but just to give you a point of reference, consider that my current tax rate under the existing system is 52%. This includes my state and federal income taxes, embedded income taxes for goods and services I purchase, state sale taxes, and unearned interest on monthly withholding. Compared to the 23% sales tax (not 30% as you incorrectly claim), Fair Tax would cut my taxes nearly by half. Actually, the effective tax rate would be even lower than the 23%, thanks to prebates on sales taxes on basic necessities.

By JJ

April 23, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

Is this the same Bookman from “Good Times”, or just the same intellectual level? Well, as the Evans family would say: “READ THE BOOK, BOOGA!!!”

By Hank

April 23, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Lie #2:the FairTax rate would be 23 percent. Throughout the book, Boortz gives the FairTax rate as 23 percent. It is not until near the end of the book—in the chapter, “Questions and Objections”—that he admits it is really 30 percent. But even then he still insists it is 23 percent.

Those of us who were skeptical from the beginning noticed this when we got to page 84. There Boortz used the example of a single mother with two children spending $45 a week on groceries. He claims that the removal of the taxes currently embedded in the price would lower the cost of the groceries to $35.10 (a dubious proposition). But then he says: “Add the FairTax, and the groceries would cost $45.58. I learned in the sixth grade that if an item cost $35.10, and I add to it $10.48 in sales tax, then I paid a tax rate of almost 30 percent—not 23 percent. Boortz says in the “Questions and Objections” chapter that “critics of the FairTax have a way of dwelling on this 30 percent figure.” I wonder why? Although Boortz explains that he is using an exclusive rate rather than an inclusive rate to figure the percentage, his “mathematical equivalent of a game of semantics” still results in a FairTax rate of 30 percent. This is why Boortz prefers the national sales tax to be included in the price of each item—so the consumer doesn’t realize that he is really paying an extra 30 percent in sales tax, not Boortz’s new math amount of 23 percent.

Source article

Common Sense — Thomas Paine is rolling over in his grave as you are an idiot.

By larry

April 23, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Bookman is a liar and a fraud. He may or may not understand the Fair Tax; but, he is certainly misstating what it is and how it works.

He is more concerned that the Bushes may get a tax break than how the plan actually works.

Bookman is typical of the media these days. His ilk are those from whom we need protection.

By Joe

April 23, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

Can’t say it any better than the other posts have Mr. Bookman. Opinion is one thing and is appropriate in editorial comment. Lies are not. You are a liar!!!

By Hank

April 23, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

Problem #14: The FairTax does not eliminate all federal taxes. Although it is implied throughout the book that the FairTax will be a replacement for the various federal taxes, there are some federal taxes that will still be with us under the FairTax. Even Boortz slips up one time and says that the FairTax would “replace virtually all personal and corporate taxes.” Two examples of federal taxes that will still be with us under the FairTax are the excise tax on gasoline and the various taxes that one pays when purchasing an airline ticket. There is no mention of the federal gas tax anywhere in the Fair Tax Act of 2005. No list of taxes that are supposed to be eliminated under the FairTax includes the federal gas tax, which adds 18.4 cents to the price of a gallon of gas. So under the FairTax, we would have added to each gallon of gas federal excise tax, state excise tax, and federal sales tax. This is just the minimum. The states could also begin applying their sales tax to gasoline. A recent airline ticket I purchased had added to its price a federal excise tax of $15.28, a federal segment tax of $12.80, and a September 11th security fee of $10.00. And what about federal taxes on tobacco and alcohol? The FairTax will merely replace one visible tax with another while leaving intact the invisible ones.

Source Article

By G-Man

April 23, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

I have not read the book but have heard it mentioned on Boortz. I’ve have some question about it.

Just look’n for answers not trying to start a fight.

By Fisher

April 23, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

To Hank,

Imagine! Someone with a 30 cent pencil challenging $22 million of research! I guess you just feel your answers. Typical leftist approach.

You obviously didn’t read the book either. Or if you did, you didn’t bother to even try to understand it. Go back and read the chapter again, all of it this time! The answer is right in front of you.

But, then, you probably don’t have the book. You either borrowed it or read it over someone’s shoulder.

By Koz

April 23, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

We would obviously make a lot of money from Vistors/tourists and from illegals already here. Hence lessening the burden on citizens.

By modestd

April 23, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Roy, Please post your own comments and do not “lift” them from Boortz’s website. You dont even give him credit for writing it. That my friend is called PLAGIARISM!! You are as in the wrong as JB not doing his HW! FairTax is great no matter if you are a liberal or a conservative. Please do not blast the “liberals” or “democrats”. Some like the FairTax just as much as you “republicans” You do nothing but destroy any type of following for the FairTax with your ignorant comments. Be Smart!

By Hegelian

April 23, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Hank mentions the gas tax… That will stay there and while we march toward more efficient autos that run more and more on electricity, etc… The cry from our leaders will be that they cannot afford to maintain our roads because of decreased revenues from the gas tax due decreased gas consumption and thus will need to implement a tax-by-mile charge on us all—that will, of course, be “FAIR” (<-pronounced like Boortz does his mamby-pamby liberal whine.) This will be implemented by using tracker chips in all license plates and autos in order to track and find everywhere we go, and charge us accordingly. Don’t you love Freedom? If Boortz is so Libertarian, why doesn’t he rail against this? Be watchful of his (and most politicians) verbal slight-of-hand…it is most magical. Boortz only give lip service to fundamental Libertarian principals- but in reality is another Bush cheerleader…

How does this relate to the Fair tax question you might wonder? Be careful to get caught up in the debate over what color the Trojan horse is, or argue over the number of hairs on its tail—Be skeptical in all regards to the true intent of this legislation

By MAC

April 23, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

I have a good example of who would pay more, Mr. Bookman. John and Theresa Heinz Kerry, who earn little income, yet spend their trust funds (which they didn’t earn) tens of millions of dollars per year, tax free.

Wealthy retirees would pay more too since they are spending but not earning.

On the other hand, millions of people would be encouraged to save more and consume less. Where are all the “green” hypocrites on this? The fair tax has much more impact on limiting resource consumption than flourescent bulbs!

By Koz

April 23, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Is it just me or does Prebate sound like a dirty word?

By KP

April 23, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

I’m skeptical about the plan for two reasons — 1) despite the talk about “fairness”, the primary attraction of the plan depends upon the public’s dislike of the IRS; 2) the use of state revenue agencies as intermediaries will be a political disaster, above and beyond the fact that they will replace the IRS as everyone’s “heavy”.

No less a political icon than Alexander Hamilton himself said — in Federalist 42 — the federal government cannot rely on the states to act as the fed’s revenue collectors. That was one of the primary problems with the political arrangement prior to the Constitution’s ratification.

What’s attractive about the plan is its’ relative transparency. After all, does anyone know how much of their purchasing power is eaten up by hidden taxes, such as excise taxes?

As a first step, wouldn’t it be helpful to the fairness debate if our receipts and electronic purchasing records broke down all of the taxes — sales taxes, excise taxes, fees — paid on each purchase so we can determine just how much government takes from our spending as well as our income?

Let’s call it the Transparency in Purchasing Power Electronic Records (TIPPER) Act.

And we’re really not that far from making it a reality. Bank of America already provides me with my bank statements in downloadable XML. Just add a few tags for the various taxes and poof! — the wish is granted.

By GenXDen

April 23, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Fisher, for your response. I’m going to the site immediately!

By Dave

April 23, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I have prepared tax returns as a professional or as a volunteer for almost thirty years, so I would like to think that I have a pretty good idea of how our tax system works. I am currently a professional tax consultant for a number of high-income earners. While I have NOT read the book, I have, over the years, seen and researched the numerous flat-tax or fair-tax proposals that have come and gone over the years.

Here are my observations; take them for what they are worth:

• The current income tax system, while overly complicated and bewildering to the average citizen, is a product of the American public’s demand that taxes be paid by those who can afford to pay such taxes. While it is imperfect and, in many individual cases, often unfair, it is, for the most part, rather equitable in delivering on that demand: Those who CAN afford to pay the income tax do in fact PAY the income tax.

• ALL flat-tax or fair-tax proposals have been made by those who are high-income earners who pay the bulk of the income tax under the current system. They thoroughly understand the ins-and-outs of the current system (if they do not understand it, they pay people like me who DO understand it to advise them), and they recognize that they WILL CONTINUE TO PAY the bulk of the tax load imposed on the American public unless they engage in practices which the IRS normally classifies as tax fraud or until the basic income tax system itself is scrapped.

• Each of these fair/flat tax supporters stand to benefit GREATLY if the “Fair Tax” is approved as written. NOT ONE of these people will pay MORE tax under the proposed Fair Tax system. IMHO, that fact should be BOTH OBVIOUS and SIGNIFICANT. It also pays credence to the main point of Mr. Bookman’s article: If these people (who CAN afford to pay the income tax as currently structured) are paying LESS, then who will be paying MORE??

• Consider this: Under the current system, a single person who makes $500,000 in taxable income pays about $154,861 in federal income (just under 31%) while someone who makes $20,000 in taxable income pays $2,623 in taxes (just over 13%)? These figures are right out of the 2006 federal income tax tables for a SINGLE person. On its face, it is seems unfair that the person who makes the higher income pays a tax rate three times greater than the low income earner. However, can anyone deny the simple fact that the $500K income earner can in fact AFFORD to pay this tax without suffering a significant blow to his or her lifestyle, while the $20K income earner probably struggles to pay his or her 13% tax rate?? Think about this!! Think about it LONG and HARD!!

• Finally, much has been made about “getting rid of the IRS”, because, with no income tax, there would be no need for the IRS. This is A BLATANT FALSEHOOD. The IRS mission would simply be changed from enforcing the current income tax laws to enforcing the new Fair Tax Sales Tax laws. Does ANYONE out there REALLY think there would not be a MASSIVE ATTEMPT to avoid this new 23 – 34% retail sales tax? If you think so, then you have not read your history about the black markets that cropped up EVERY TIME when high sales taxes were imposed on certain commodities (like cigarettes and liquor). A WHOLE NEW underground economy will result from the implementation of this law. Avoiding the Fair Tax GUARANTEES a savings of AT LEAST 23%!! If someone is willing to cheat on their income tax, why would they NOT want to cheat on the Fair Tax?

Just my humble opinion!

By sansho1

April 23, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

The above commenter is correct that the Linder/Boortz plan actually calls for a 30 percent sales tax, not 23 percent. They mask it as follows:

Something costs a dollar before tax. With the Fair Tax, the total charge would be $1.30. Thirty cents is 23 percent of $1.30. Hence they claim a 23 percent tax rate, but use post-tax dollars to create the illusion. Thirty percent will be added to your purchase under the Fair Tax.

By Claude

April 23, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Perhaps the biggest delusion of Fair Tax advocates is how easy it will be to collect the $3 trillion or so the federal government has to collect year year. The proposal to “eliminate the IRS” does so only by turning millions of Americans into tax collectors. Every babysitter, every barber, every plumber, everyone who mows lawns, every doctor, every dentist, every shoe-shiner, every masseuse, every lawyer, every investment banker, every insurance agent, every car-washer, every dry cleaner, and so on will be required to collect the tax and submit it to the government. Somehow, I suspect the compliance rate will fall short of 100%. And then there’e the totally unworkable “prebate”, which requires that the federal government know how many people are living in each household each month. So we’ll have a federal agency tracking the comings and goings of live-in boyfriends. You’re right, Jay, the Fair Tax movement is a cult.

By Real Ist

April 23, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

The Boretz scheme is nothing more than smoke & mirrors contrived by a draft dodger whose middle name is Adolf (so named at the end of WW II; draw your own conclusions). The IRS would not be abolished, simply one lousy system replaced by a fraudulent one. Bookman and Boretz should kill each other, and hoi polloi would benefit.

By JustMe

April 23, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

This is “fair tax” just like the “porno industry” is in Indonesia! In Indonesia, holding hands in public is considered porno!!!!!

Don’t you love the way crooks use misleading words to label things?

By Ted P

April 23, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

Why not try the Far Tax, if does not work we will still have the 5,000 pages of current tax code to go back to. Why would anybody not want to at least try it?

By Kyle

April 23, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Why should the poor not pay the same tax rate as the rich? Rich people are smarter, work harder, and should be treated the same as the “bad luck” poor. I say you make your own luck, and the poor are that way because they choose to be that way.

By Kurtis R.E. Segars

April 23, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

Scary that a guy who can’t even look up the answer to simple questions in a book that easily explains them has a job like this.

By ryan

April 23, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

The money is saved by eliminating the IRS. So unless you’re an IRS (or Jackson-Hewitt/H&R Block/etc) employee, then you pretty much win.

By John

April 23, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

To Dave the Tax Preparer above….

If after 30 years of preparing tax returns, you can honestly still say that it is equitable for people to pay tax because they “can” or in fact pay more since it will have less “negative impact” on them and they can AFFORD it more than a low income earner…how dare you.

First, this is socialism…”to each his own according to his means,” and who do you think employs the lower earner.

With your suggestion, let’s tax the high earnning emplower more because he can “afford” it more; than the lower tax payer won’t have to worry about taxes any more at all because they would be out of a job!

By MrLiberty

April 23, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

For the economically illiterate - corporations do not pay taxes. Only individuals pay taxes. Corporations pass their costs onto their consumers in the form of higher prices, poorer service, etc.

If Mr. Bookman wanted to identify things wrong with the Fair Tax plan he would have started with the fact that nowhere in the plan is the abolishment of the 16th amendment to the constitution which allows for the direct taxation of income. With the greedy scumbags of both parties in Washington we will end up with both an income AND a sales tax.

The other big problem is that the plan is REVENUE NEUTRAL - as if the government deserves to have as much money as they are getting now.

How’s about this for a Fair Tax - 0% of all income and no other substitute. To pay for it, cut the government down to the size actually enumerated in the Constitution and let existing tarrifs and excise taxes pay for everything.

Wow, abiding by the law of the land, restoring the republic, and abandoning the failed empire agenda. Almost makes america sound nice again. Don’t hold your breath.

By Nish

April 23, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

I AM A MONKEY

Typical left speak: So who would pay more?

This is a value judgement. Who is more entitled to their wealth?

Suddenly it isn’t based upon distributing the cost of common needs through everyone - instead it’s based on the judgement that since you earned more than someone else you owe.

It’s funny that there’s zero judgement on individuals from liberals - or at least a facade indicating that they don’t judge people; but yet there is an overwhelming willingness to judge a person’s income and how it should be redistributed to the masses.

Consumption tax is too difficult for people who judge others’ worth to understand.

By jeff

April 23, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

Bookman, You have no idea how much federal tax would be saved if you do not have receipts of ever purchase made by the tax payer to do a comparison. This is more crap from the left to discredit a sound tax reform idea. And one other thing, You not even talking about the removal of payroll taxes. Take that off as well and you will then see how much difference it makes. And yes, Corporations will pay taxes. They will pay taxes on all the corporate purchases as well. The Idea is how much more investment dollars will be plowed into the economy. And the IRS even admits right now that there are Billions of taxes not getting collected. This would eliminate all that. There would be no more tax cheats. But the Tax would be fair and you would control how and when you pay tax. READ THE BOOK!!!! The DEMOCRATES do not want to gove up control. That is why they are fighting this. You can only control a population through income tax. IT’s about CONTROL! they do not care one thing about being fair.

By leigh

April 23, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

It is obvious by reading the opinion of the AJC writer and the comments posted by the naysayers that none of you have read the book or researched the fair tax. This would be a great thing for all not just the rich or for the poor…EVERYONE including illegals would pay their “fair” share.

By jeff

April 23, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

to GENXDEN,

In my humble opinion, READ THE BOOK BEFORE YOU GIVE YOUR HUMBLE OPINION!!! You do not know what your talking about. First, All households would get a rebate every month for taxes paid on food. Second, The tax rate on products would not go up that much more than they are now because all embeded taxes placed on corporations would be eliminated. All products sold today have nearly 23% embeded taxes from production included. Those would go away and the law of competition would cause the price to adjust downward. The the Sales tax would be added and the walk our price for the purchase would be nearly the same as before. EXCEPT NO INCOME TAX!! I can surely see why an accountant would be againts the Fair Tax!!!!

By Jay is right!

April 23, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

These comments crack me up! And they only serve to prove Jay’s point about the FairTaxers being a cult. They all attack Jay, but few — if any — try to address or refute his key point, which is that if everyone’s taxes go down under the FairTax, how can the FairTax possbily be revenue neutral?

Boortz’s criticism of Jay’s column boils down to: (a) Jay misspelled the FairTax, and (b) Jay had the nerve to quote the FairTax in a tax-exlusive rate rather than the Boortz-speak tax-inclusive rate. Then he fails to address how it can be revenue neutral.

For those who think the lost revenue will be made up by illegal immigrants and the underground economy, think again. Illegal immigrants and the underground economy are already taxed when they buy things today. The seller of goods to the immigrant and drug dealer must report and pay income taxes on those sales (just as the seller would collect and pay the tax under the FairTax system). So the end result will be the same. That’s why no economist — even those few who support the FairTax — argue that the FairTax would be a way to tax the underground economy.

But, I know I’m not going to change anyone’s ideas on this. It will take a far more experienced deprogrammer than me to do so.

By John

April 23, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Underground economy already taxed??? Try 6-7% current sales tax vs 23% under the fair tax. Please pay attention folks.

Do the math, read the book, get eductated, then come back.

Most folkds do not care about Jay, Boortz, or anyone else other than their own families. This thread is going no where until you have all read the book…and maybe it might be a good idea for all of the detractors of the Fair Tax, or any other idea such as this, to go back and look at the income tax return you filed last week. How can the present system be considered fair to anyone…rich or poor?

If you want to criticize the Fair Tax Plan fine, but then let’s see Mr. Bookman’s or anyone else’s alternative solution and tax plan other than to raise the tax rate on the gainfully employed. We are all waiting…

By aldread

April 23, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t anybody see that this is a plot to allow the wealthy to pay tax on only the fraction of their income that they spend, while the rest of us pay tax on nearly ALL our income?

Plus, it’s obviously going to create a huge black market in untaxed goods, plus it will encourage people to not spend money in the USA!

Wake up!

It’s a TROJAN HORSE for the rich!

By Craig

April 23, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Jay - of course it’s a cult - most of the people posting here prove that. Constant repetition of the drivel spouted by their dear leader. Absolute inability to think logically. Amazing how they spout word for word the rantings of a radio talk show host. I despair for the future of this country.

If this boondoggle passes, most people WILL pay more in taxes than they pay today. Period. And cheating will be rampant.

By Debbie DuBois

April 23, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Those of us who have done our homework understand that corporations don’t pay taxes, consumers do. They pass along all their taxes, including their IRS compliance costs onto none other than you and me. So the cost of products will stay relatively the same as now. But, we all get to keep our hard earned paychecks. AND, get a prebate for taxes paid up to the poverty level. The tax base will become 300 million instead of 30 million, so the underground economy—you know those people who get away without paying any taxes!—will finally have to contribute. I this the model as drafted in the Legislation now on Capital Hill is sound tax policy. You should do more research!

By the stopper

April 23, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

*Wake up!

It’s a TROJAN HORSE for the rich!*

Wrong.

It’s an unworkable joke. The “FairTax” will never be enacted.

By the stopper

April 23, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

If this boondoggle passes

It won’t.

By Scott Peter

April 23, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

After reading your column you have seem to forget one thing. With the fair tax all people in the United States would be required to pay a surcharge on goods bought including illegals! How much money would that generate??

By DD

April 23, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Steal more from the poor and give to the rich with your snake oil Fair Tax. WTG you ‘moral’ Republicans.

By lopro

April 23, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

aldread, I believe what you speak of what be classified under the Law of Diminishing Returns. It so happens that it is an economic law where as income goes up, the utility of a dollar goes up until it reaches a point where utility is leveled off. This occurs in capitalist economies. Otherwise, if we redistribute all of the wealthy people’s earnings to people who do not pay taxes then wealth ceases to exist. This happened with communism. You know, that blight of the world that we fought so dilligently to remove for so many years so that the United States would remain free and its citizens could have incentive for prosperity.

I am not wealthy yet but I hope with an encourging tax structure that I can be one day. Otherwise, I might just hang around in mediocrity and let someone else work hard for me, right?

By Blind Homer

April 23, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Everyone of you that quotes the rate as 23% is an idiot. It’s $.23 of every $1.00 on the register. By traditional measurements that means you got a $.77 item and paid $.23 tax. $.23/$.77 = 30% you bloody wankers!

By steve

April 23, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

All Dems..have someone read this to you..

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for

all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes,

it would go something like this:

with the arrangement, until on day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since

you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost

of your daily beer by $20.”Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for

free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could

they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair

share?’ They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they

subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth

man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner

suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the

same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

savings).

continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men

began to compare their savings.

pointed to the tenth man,” but he got $10!”

dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!” “That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!” “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!” The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

By Joe L

April 23, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

“tax base will become 300 million instead of 30 million”

Riiighhhtt. Where are these supposed 270 million people hiding? I guess they are all the illegal aliens that are invading America and destroying our “way of life” right? Or are the all the poor Americans who don’t pay taxes now (who supposedly will stay untaxed based on the prebate).

When you make up ridiculous figures like this to “explain” how the consumption tax is feasible you pretty much prove exactly what Bookman is saying.

By Debbie DuBois

April 23, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

I fully support the FairTax and I happen to be a Democrat! This is not a Republican issue, this is an American issue. I am voting Barack Obama for President, but I still believe the FairTax is the best way to go. Please, fellow Dems, don’t think everyone is just being brainwashed. Do your research right. Don’t make assumptions. I did my research. I started a web site: FairTax4all.com. Again, don’t keep the “poor” mentality and be suspicious, until you really look into this Legislation, OK?

By Debbie DuBois

April 23, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

I fully support the FairTax and I happen to be a Democrat! This is not a Republican issue, this is an American issue. I am voting Barack Obama for President, but I still believe the FairTax is the best way to go. Please, fellow Dems, don’t think everyone is just being brainwashed. Do your research right. Don’t make assumptions. I did my research. I started a web site: FairTax4all.com. Again, don’t keep the “poor” mentality and be suspicious, until you really look into this Legislation, OK?

By Filbert

April 23, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

One small item to poke a hole in Bookman’s position involves the substantial economy of illegals. Currently, very few (I’ll grant there may be a couple in the ocuntry) illegals pay income tax, and since they are paid as 1099 independent contractors it’s their responsibility and duty to file and pay same. If you think that happens I’ve got some swamp land right next to Sonny’s to sell. So, by imposing the 23% flat tax, illegals would pay the same 23% sales tax because everyone, and I mean everyone, consumes whether they have a legit income or not. Make more money, consume more. So we would not have to rely on their honesty in filing taxes, we’d just get it fromthem the same as we do from everyone else. 23% across the board. Buy a truck, 23%. Buy food, 23%, and so on. And, as Bookman acknowledges, there are provisions which provide a “relief” check to famailies and individuals making less that a set amount. Only requirement would probably be that such individuals would have to file something to prove their eligibility which once again would leave a lot of illegals out. Might even discourage them from coming and staying. It’s not a hard concept to grasp but to someone of the liberal elite who think they have to look our for the masses cause we’re too stupid to make our own decisions it takes away many of the Democrats incentives for keeping its uninformed party base in check. Hmmm, no preferential set asides, no minority tax breaks, no this, no that. Might result in people actually thinking for themsleves and then, gasp, dare we say it, they might vote Republican????

By Dave

April 23, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

In response to John:

You are making the assumption that EVERYTHING proposed in socialism is BAD. It is not, as can be shown by Universal Health Care that gives the poor man equal access to medical care that will save his life even if he cannot afford it. But I digress…

I defend the current tax system because, overly complex or not, it DOES tax those who DO have the money and, further, who have a VESTED INTEREST to continue to pay. While the wealthy will complain about unequal tax burdens, deep down they recognize that their failure to pay would result in them losing the nice lifestyle they have worked so hard to achieve and which allows them to be able to afford to pay the taxes in the first place. This applies even if the IRS did not have the power of government to enforce the tax code, because failure to pay taxes would inevitably result in the breakdown in society as we know it, and would eventually lead to anarchy. So goes the cliché “Taxes is the price we pay for civilization”.

The debate is before us: DO we implement a “EQUAL” tax system that is, in fact, inequitable in the treatment of the poor or, even worse, the middle class? Think about it!