Opinion Talk

By Roger

April 28, 2006 07:25 AM | Link to this

NO! the citizens of Clayton county are getting the shaft. Why should we be the only ones to subsidize this white elephant when it is obviously a regional project. I agree with Wooten. This will do nothing to relieve the traffic congestion. It will be better to spend the money on other projects. But the best idea would be for all government offices to stagger their starting office hours with some reporting earlier and some reporting later. Ever noticed how little traffic there is on government holidays?

By Beverly Wittler

April 28, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this

Instead of a rail line, why not some buses or commuter vans? (What kind of fuel does a train burn and is it just as bad for the envirionment as gasoline?) As for subsidizing, a good CEO with a knack for profit might want to start up a company, charge commuters, but not be backed by our tax dollars.

By Natalie

April 28, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

Georgians are ready for transportation alternatives. Gas prices are on the rise and are expected to hit $4.00 a gallon this summer. How high do gas prices have to go before the state takes advantage of this opportunity to invest in commuter rail? This project was ready to roll before Rep. Harbin and his wrecking crew de-railed Georgia’s first commuter rail behind closed doors in the final days of the General Assembly. Governor Perdue has the ability to get the train on the tracks with a line item veto.

The attempt to de-rail the commuter rail plans is a double loss for traffic-weary Georgians; $87 million in federal money is earmarked to build the initial leg of the commuter rail system and cannot be used for any other purpose. The elected leaders of Clayton County have agreed to cover any operations losses. Norfolk Southern has agreed to allow the use of its tracks and the City of Atlanta has agreed to turn over $1 million in property to the project.

By E. Lewis

April 28, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

Taxpayers are paying $3/gallon of gas, but don’t want to support public rail!!!!!

Does this make any sense?

By Van

April 28, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

Question #1, Why should a government be required to fund an experiment?

Question #2, If it was financially viable, where are the enterprising companies willing to spend venture monies to build it. If it made sense to build the line, let private companies build it for profit.

Question #3, In light of question #1 and question #2, why build it.

By KB

April 28, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this

We need commuter and traveller rail all over the state. First,we need to get the commuter cars, vans, and busses off the highways, and put people on the train to work! Trains carry many more people, more efficiently, more safely, and use far less fuel than all of the vehicles required to carry the same number of people in vehicles on the road.

By Dave

April 28, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Absolutely, the Lovejoy line needs to move forward.

Our congressional reps worked very hard to secure the federal money for this project (over $80 million, the bulk of the cost), and it is specifically for the construction of a commuter rail line. Again, we do not have the option of spending that money on roads, or anything else. If we do not use the money for Lovejoy, it will go back to the federal transit pot and some other, more progressive city will use it to build their rail system.

Commuter rail is long overdue and sorely needed in the Atlanta region. We cannot afford to miss this opportunity!

By SUZAN

April 28, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

YES!YES!YES!, this state needs to get off the road and on the trains. We are addicted to automobiles and the consequensed are terrible. 9th worst air in the country(USA) 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours commutes one way. Gas prices goin up to 4.00 or hight this summer and no stoping this trend. I parked my car last summer and started riding the bus and train to work. I get 3 miles of walking in a day now. I am saving over 250.00 per month is gas cost and my insurance on my car went down because I dont drive it to work every day. My savings in these areas come out to about 3,000.00 per year in savings. I have time to read and I dont get stressed in traffic.

By Jason

April 28, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

Let’s see, we have the same tired old neo-libertarian argument that we shouldn’t use tax money on this, if there was demand, it would pay for itself. But then a blind eye is conveniently turned to our socialist road system, only a small portion of which is paid for by fuel taxes. Most of the cost of roads comes from the general fund which is supplied by sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes that are levied on everyone regardless of the amount the drive.

So I’ll buy the neo-libertarian line that rail should support itself just as soon as they join the real Libertarians in the quest to end the massive failed socialist project that is our highway system. Until I see them posting on here about their hatred of subsidized roadways and see them marching on the capitol demanding that this subsidization stops, I will have to continue to conclude that the anti-rail folks aren’t truly concerned about smaller government but are rather just intent on forcing everyone to continue into their preferred automobile centric transportation choice that has brought us unlimited congestion, wasteful spending, traffic deaths, pollution induced respiratory problems, and environmental devastation.

Level the playing field. Either raise the gas tax to the point that it covers 100% of the cost of building, maintaining, and policing of roads or stop being hypocrites and allow rail to have the same operating environment that our all powerful road building industry has enjoyed.

By Anonymous

April 28, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

Most definately so. Adding more freeway lanes will only cause more traffic, more pollution, and more accidents. The biggest road subsidy is what we pay for our hospital bills for asthma. Commuter rail has proven to be popular in other parts of the country and voters have taken a keen interest in both funding and building it. Lets get these trains rolling.

By buckley

April 28, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

No, I’d much rather have that money spent on a limited-access reoad from Vidalia to Valdosta. This will bring convenience stores and the occasional fast-food restaurant and the accompanying propserity afforded by each to rural GA. This is where the money will be best spent.

By MC

April 28, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

^Convenience stores and fast-food joints? Wonderful. This post right here shows where Georgia’s aspirations are. More of the same until we all choke to death.

By Mark

April 28, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Check out this weblink: http://www.geocities.com/chattanooga_atlanta/home.html

By mmcburton

April 28, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

Once again Georgia cannot muster the courage to march out of 1955 to join the modern cities of this country. Suburban residents of metropoltan Boston, New York and Chicago salivate and plead for more commuter train service, and generally get it though measured build-outs by state governments that recognize the long-term value of public investments that build real communities. Many towns in these metros have character because they built around train stations, not Super Walmarts and expressways. God forbid you might have to interact with another human being on the train and walk a few blocks to and from work. Oh sure, roads totally pay for themselves, both in actual cost and externalities (i.e. pollution, support of terror regimes overseas, and hideously ugly communities).

By Jazz

April 28, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

NO! NO! NO! NO! $9 one way, 5 days a week 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon, and no one knows for sure how much the counties will be required to cough up for the shortfall. Why would any sane person think this sounds viable This is not mass transit. I live in Henry County and if you think Clayton County will get the shaft, well, Henry County will get much worse.

And then there’s the issue of subsidizing New Jersey’s upgrade to its mass transit by dumping it’s cast off rolling stock (rail cars) on us.

When asked at the House Committee hearing in February if they had any desire to get into the passenger business, the Norfolk-Southern representative said no, it doesn’t pay. But of course they favor the deal because taxpayer dollars will pay to upgrade their tracks to passenger quality and then they’ll get paid rent for the use of their tracks. Great way to make an otherwise unprofitable route look better on their books at OUR EXPENSE

If everyone knew all the facts, NO ONE WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF THIS BOONDOGLE

By edward woolf

April 28, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

you talk about modern places like Boston. The Railrunner will be up a running this year, because the coyote is hanging around Boston. Maybe an acme anvil wii knock some sense into peoples’ heads

By william price

April 28, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

YES! I have used commuter rail in other cities and it is a great alternative to highway traffic. Specifically, you can ride from Camden Yards in downtown Baltimore to Union Station in DC in about an hour for $4. Each train makes 8 or 9 stops and carries several thousand passengers, and trains run every hour.

Ditto, the VRE from Manassas to downtown DC. Many commuters use it as well as visitors.

The Georgia DOT is obviously in bed with highway developers and Gov. Purdue is their current pawn. Why doesn’t Mark Taylor or Cathy Cox speak out if they hope to be governor?

By Lee

April 28, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Of course commuter rail does not pay. No form of transportation pays, not rail, not air, not boat, and certainly not roads. All forms of transportation are subsidized and none are subsidized more than roads. Show me a country that does not subsidize transportation and I’ll show you a third world country.

Car travel gets a total subsidy. Of course, car drivers wind up paying more because of car payments, interest on car payments, gas, insurance, maintenance, and greater risk of loss of life.

If people are really concerned about open ended tax commitments, they should look at how much they are being forced to pay for roads. There are some highway interchanges being built now that cost more than the entire 40 mile Atlanta-Lovejoy line. The expansion to 23 lanes on I-75 alone could pay for 15 commuter rail lines to Lovejoy.

Commuter rail will not reduce traffic. NOTHING will reduce traffic. Anyone who has lived in Georgia more than 10 years has seen each roads fill right back up after each expansion. But the Lovejoy rail line WILL get us out of traffic, and that’s what we really need.

By Jackson

April 28, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Why is commuter rail an issue at all? Let’s implement it immediately!

And perhaps Atlanta-Lovejoy can be a first step towards service to Macon and Savannah. Other corridors like Atlanta-Charlotte and Atlanta-Athens should be explored, too.

And for those of you talking about commercial viability— who pays to maintain the highways, folks? And who pays for the Federal Aviation Administration, the Transportation Security Administration and the airports?

We all do! We should have trains as an option, too.

By HCCynic

April 28, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Absolutely NOT! The potential for political shenanigans, sweetheart real estate deals amongst those in the politically connected loop, and the absence of popular vote within the affected counties, makes me question the validity of any of the local politicos “pro-rail” arguments.

I recognize the need for public transportation and I am a regular rider on both the GRTA Xpress Bus Line, and the MARTA rail system; but at $9 per leg of the trip (notwithstanding all financial support from public sources), this proposed rail line is NOT the answer.

I further recognize the reality of life that politically connected people get politically connected payoffs, I accept that. Unfortunately, this porker of a deal reaks more than most deals that are undertaken for the public “good”. I do not, and probably will not, ever know what political favors got stirred into the mix, but from where I sit in Henry County this deal truly smells like last weeks “sausage”.

This is one boondoggle that needs to be avoided like a three dollar “date” with a fever blister.

By Van

April 28, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

In the future roads will be a requirement, think about all the freight that travels by 18 wheelers, as they are today.

That being said, will there be enough ridership to make this pay? How much will it cost the counties involved?

Being cynical about politicians and projects like this, I have to ask myself, who will profit from this rail line? At $18 a day (round trip) plus any local transit to get to the office, it won’t be much of a saving for some. I have a feeling that some politician(s) will be making out like a bandit, literally.

As they said before, follow the money.

There are many reasons why people buy homes far from the job, are the tax payers responsible for there choice? While a rail line between Chattanooga and Atlanta, with stops along the way, may hold promise, who is going to pay in the long run? We had train service in Georgia for many a year, but what happened to it, it went broke.

I still don’t see why we can’t use the two centermost lanes of the interstates for light rail traffic, as the do in Virginia, near DC.

By Patrick

April 28, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Look folks, time to face the facts:

We are fiddling while Rome burns, folks! Every year that goes by without adequate funding into energy efficient transportation solutions makes us less and less economically viable as a region. Time to step up to the plate and do what Chicago, Boston, New York, San Francisco, Washington and Philadelphia have done long ago. Its time to invest in rail, lest we all end up at the pawn shops to find a way to fill up our tanks: http://cbs11tv.com/local/localstory110231803.html

By HCCynic

April 28, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

Patrick, I do not disagree with a single argument you make for the NEED for more efficient transportation…I do however, take extreme exception to this particular deal and the potential financial liability that the citizens of Clayton and Henry counties are going to be saddled with. My thought is, if the Henry County Chamber of Commerce (and by extension its membership) thinks this rail line is such a sweet deal, they should be willing to underwrite it and guarantee any potential financial shortfall themselves, as opposed to having their political puppets dump it on the citizens…otherwise, the CoC and its members are no different than any other welfare queen holding her hand out for a government check.

By Joe

April 28, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Coming from Cobb County, I’ve been entirely underwhelmed by the effort to bring busses stuck in traffic to the commuters. It’s not a good alternative, and I’m envious that the people of Clayton have this chance to get commuter rail first.

I would acknowledge that cars and busses together have an advantage in being more flexible than rail. However, rail is more efficient. We have enough flexibility in metro Atlanta. We have flexibility coming out of our ears! Let’s introduce some efficiency to the system for the benefit of all.

By Paul

April 28, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

The political insult members of the appropriations committee notwithstanding, why can’t the citizens of the counties and communities the Lovejoy line serves see themselves as making a contribution to the greater good and as pioneers of an important regional/state initiative, not to mention economic development and redevelopment that will follow surrounding the stops between Atlanta and Lovejoy? More roads always bring more traffic, more accidents, higher insurance rates, higher fuel prices and poorer air quality. More rail brings more riders, less traffic, better air quality, etc. Why must so many Georgians remain so short-sighted?

By Lee

April 28, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

The Commuter Rail line will NOT cost $18 roundtrip. Where is this misinformation coming from? Again, it will NOT cost $18 roundtrip.

Henry County will pay NOTHING in this deal. Again, where are people getting this? Clayton County will pay operations overrides estimated to be $4 million. In comparison, Fulton & DeKalb pay $300 million for MARTA.

Clayton County is getting the sweetest deal possible in the form of $106 million paid by the federal and state governments. This is going to improve quality of life and economic development in Clayton County far beyond $4 million a year. That’s why the Clayton Co Chamber of Commerce is pushing for it.

By Dan

April 28, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Patrick you make a number of good points but the one economic consideration you overlook is that wash, ny bost san fran and any other metro area that has a model tranportation system has 10 times or more the population density of Atlanta. While you are correct in stating we should begin planning doing so would be historically proactive when compared to the cities you mention. This only underscores the complete lack of reason when there are cries of a commuter line from lovejoy chattanooga or macon. We first need lines going 30-40 miles up 85, 75 and 400. Only then will there be an in town demand for public transport. Of course that resulting population influx would tax the infrastructure in the towns at the end of the line but that is another topic

By Richard E. Hodges

April 28, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

In most major and/or progressive cities in the U.S. and much the rest of the civilized world, passenger rail is an important—frequently vital—form of transportation. The elected or appointed leaders of government and transportation in these areas recognize transportation as a legitimate function deserving and getting tax-payer support, partially or wholly. And passenger rail, whether it be commuter trains, heavy rail, light rail, street cars or AMTRAK, deserves a portion of the kind of tax-payer support accorded highways, airways and waterways. It’s past time for some political vision and leadership on a matter of extreme importance to the future of this area and state. Lovejoy to Atlanta passenger rail service is a good starting example of how beneficial this mode of transportation can be. Vested interests or ignorance should not be allowe to prevail on this important matter.

By Dan

April 28, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

Actuall Richard There are 17 Ga counties on the list of fastest growing counties in the US. 3 are out of region (savannah area order fl border) 6 are north of Atlanta, 4 are east, 3 are west and, 1 henry county, is south. So it is clear to an unbiased observer that the lovejoy - atlanta proposal is far from being an example of vision and leadership, and is in actuality a perfect example of vested interests and ignorance that you claim to decry. Do you perhaps own some useless land that may be in the right of way of such a rail

By Jason

April 28, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

Dan, you do raise a good point. Lovejoy was not suppose to be the first commuter rail. When Barnes was governor, there were plans to have an Athens to Atlanta line in place and operating in 2003 or 2004. But Purdue got into office and things changed. Many believe that Lovejoy was selected as the first line because it was the least likely to attract ridership and had the lowest population so there would be less people upset when it got axed.

In that respect, yes, Lovejoy is the least desirable line to start with. But since the powers that be have decided to not start with the best lines, Lovejoy it is. With gas prices continuing to rise and congestion coming to the southside, the chances of Lovejoy succeeding has improved greatly. This is likely why instead of allowing it to be built and fail so it can serve as an example to kill of the more viable lines, they have decided to kill it off now so there will be no chance of success.

If you really want commuter rail in those other fast growning areas, push your elected officials to do it. Certainly you do have valid concerns about the viability of the Lovejoy line but at this point it appears that if it is killed off, it will eliminate any chance of any other line ever getting built.

By Steve SC

April 28, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

How about Augusta as the destination for a regional rail line? Those of us who live nearby might love to have an alternative way of getting to Atlanta. Possibly build Atlanta-Athens now, extend from Athens to Augusta in the near future.

By Van

April 28, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Lee, your right, it will only be $9 round trip - at the start.

As with most things, this mass transit will not go where the people are, just the opposite.

The same people that thought the Ted did not need a subway extention will be the ones running this project. Folks, brace your self, BOHICA.

By Jan David Jubon

April 28, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

I fear for the State of Georgia. The lack of intelligence and the greed-fueled underhandedness displayed by our governments’ (state, county, and local) actions toward rail transit is appalling. The ignorance of the nay-sayer public is stupefying.

Rail transit is NOT a local issue. Rail transit affects ALL of the population in ALL parts of the state. The moaning far-suburban or rural taxpayer who storms that she/he should not be taxed for rail in Atlanta because she/he won’t use it does not comprehend that her/his present taxes subsidize every street and highway, airline and airport, truck, and barge in Georgia.

Why is there no similar cry when tax-based subsidies, of significantly greater dimension than providing transit service for one’s own, are quickly legislated for wooing a private auto-racing entity or an overseas automaker onto Georgia soil?

Every vehicle which rail can reasonably remove from Atlanta’s streets provides dividends for all residents of the state (and country, too). Continuing to funnel incessantly-increasing automotive traffic into the core city will at some not-so-distant point, cause urban grid-lock and ultimately economic and physical paralysis of the entire Atlanta area.

Our elected representatives should be looking upon well-managed-and-funded rail transit for greater Atlanta as the primary and economical solution to easing the interminable traffic jams which the highway-lovers have foisted upon the public. The next step in providing that solution can be taken today. Our elected legislators need to represent the consensus of all people, not just pecuniary interests of a chosen few.

The Lovejoy line is not an experiment. It is, if not sabotaged by recalcitrant, shortsighted politicians, a first demonstration, waiting to be made, that a comprehensive rail system is a vital and needed transportation mode for Atlanta’s continued prosperity.

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By Jan David Jubon

April 28, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

I fear for the State of Georgia. The lack of intelligence and the greed-fueled underhandedness displayed by our governments’ (state, county, and local) actions toward rail transit is appalling. The ignorance of the nay-sayer public is stupefying.

Rail transit is NOT a local issue. Rail transit affects ALL of the population in ALL parts of the state. The moaning far-suburban or rural taxpayer who storms that she/he should not be taxed for rail in Atlanta because she/he won’t use it does not comprehend that her/his present taxes subsidize every street and highway, airline and airport, truck, and barge in Georgia.

Why is there no similar cry when tax-based subsidies, of significantly greater dimension than providing transit service for one’s own, are quickly legislated for wooing a private auto-racing entity or an overseas automaker onto Georgia soil?

Every vehicle which rail can reasonably remove from Atlanta’s streets provides dividends for all residents of the state (and country, too). Continuing to funnel incessantly-increasing automotive traffic into the core city will at some not-so-distant point, cause urban grid-lock and ultimately economic and physical paralysis of the entire Atlanta area.

Our elected representatives should be looking upon well-managed-and-funded rail transit for greater Atlanta as the primary and economical solution to easing the interminable traffic jams which the highway-lovers have foisted upon the public. The next step in providing that solution can be taken today. Our elected legislators need to represent the consensus of all people, not just pecuniary interests of a chosen few.

The Lovejoy line is not an experiment. It is, if not sabotaged by recalcitrant, shortsighted politicians, a first demonstration, waiting to be made, that a comprehensive rail system is a vital and needed transportation mode for Atlanta’s continued prosperity.

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By Jan David Jubon

April 28, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

I fear for the State of Georgia. The lack of intelligence and the greed-fueled underhandedness displayed by our governments’ (state, county, and local) actions toward rail transit is appalling. The ignorance of the nay-sayer public is stupefying.

Rail transit is NOT a local issue. Rail transit affects ALL of the population in ALL parts of the state. The moaning far-suburban or rural taxpayer who storms that she/he should not be taxed for rail in Atlanta because she/he won’t use it does not comprehend that her/his present taxes subsidize every street and highway, airline and airport, truck, and barge in Georgia.

Why is there no similar cry when tax-based subsidies, of significantly greater dimension than providing transit service for one’s own, are quickly legislated for wooing a private auto-racing entity or an overseas automaker onto Georgia soil?

Every vehicle which rail can reasonably remove from Atlanta’s streets provides dividends for all residents of the state (and country, too). Continuing to funnel incessantly-increasing automotive traffic into the core city will at some not-so-distant point, cause urban grid-lock and ultimately economic and physical paralysis of the entire Atlanta area.

Our elected representatives should be looking upon well-managed-and-funded rail transit for greater Atlanta as the primary and economical solution to easing the interminable traffic jams which the highway-lovers have foisted upon the public. The next step in providing that solution can be taken today. Our elected legislators need to represent the consensus of all people, not just pecuniary interests of a chosen few.

The Lovejoy line is not an experiment. It is, if not sabotaged by recalcitrant, shortsighted politicians, a first demonstration, waiting to be made, that a comprehensive rail system is a vital and needed transportation mode for Atlanta’s continued prosperity.

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By Jan David Jubon

April 28, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

To the question - YES!!!

I fear for the State of Georgia. The lack of intelligence and the greed-fueled underhandedness displayed by our governments’ (state, county, and local) actions toward rail transit is appalling. The ignorance of the nay-sayer public is stupefying.

Rail transit is NOT a local issue. Rail transit affects ALL of the population in ALL parts of the state. The moaning far-suburban or rural taxpayer who storms that she/he should not be taxed for rail in Atlanta because she/he won’t use it does not comprehend that her/his present taxes subsidize every street and highway, airline and airport, truck, and barge in Georgia.

Why is there no similar cry when tax-based subsidies, of significantly greater dimension than providing transit service for one’s own, are quickly legislated for wooing a private auto-racing entity or an overseas automaker onto Georgia soil?

Every vehicle which rail can reasonably remove from Atlanta’s streets provides dividends for all residents of the state (and country, too). Continuing to funnel incessantly-increasing automotive traffic into the core city will at some not-so-distant point, cause urban grid-lock and ultimately economic and physical paralysis of the entire Atlanta area.

Our elected representatives should be looking upon well-managed-and-funded rail transit for greater Atlanta as the primary and economical solution to easing the interminable traffic jams which the highway-lovers have foisted upon the public. The next step in providing that solution can be taken today. Our elected legislators need to represent the consensus of all people, not just pecuniary interests of a chosen few.

The Lovejoy line is not an experiment. It is, if not sabotaged by recalcitrant, shortsighted politicians, a first demonstration, waiting to be made, that a comprehensive rail system is a vital and needed transportation mode for Atlanta’s continued prosperity.

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By Patrick

April 28, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this

Dan,

I’ve heard all about density. The problem with that arguement is that its the mode of transportation that determines land use patterns and density. Fixed rail service is a density magnet, while limited access highways are a sprawl generator. The Atlanta region is running out of water, gobbling up farmland and spreading unchecked further and further out from city proper, causing the traffic problems that people complain about so much (I ditched a Kennesaw to downtown commute for a 45 second walk to a train station followed by a 4 minute train ride myself) Since the regional planning entities are really passing the buck on comprehensive, region-wide land use planning, its up to transportation projects like this to focus and direct our future growth.

Of course these arguements are completely separate from the oil market, which in the long run is really all that matters when choosing what to invest in. Currently we have too many of our eggs in one basket. One great thing that Lovejoy has going for it is that its the first phase in a line that will ultimately stretch to Macon, of which is the precursory line to a brach serving Columbus, GA. With all the soldiers going back and forth from Hartsfield/Jackson to Fort Benning, it could easilly become quite a popular line.

I agree about providing parallel service on current highways, but that will probably come later. The highways are perfect for rail, as they are already properly graded and have few sharp turns. However oil is currently still too cheap to destroy enough demand for the decrease in highway capacity that a rail line would take. Those days arent too far in the future, but projects like these are necessary to reaclimate citizens to the railroads.

By Vinnie Kelly

April 29, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this

In the age of Reagonomics many people sincerely believe when private enterprise is not involved in a venture it is because of failure to make a profit. What they often ignore is forces making the venture unprofitable. The very government criticized for subsidizing rail also has subsidized prices at our gas pumps, allowing United States citizens to pay less than what government is actually spending to maintain roads and bridges. This act has lead to false assumptions that gasoline would always be available and in large quantities. People have now learned just the opposite.

Automobile drivers have always been getting a free ride at the expense of taxpayers, those who own cars and those who do not. And before someone says majority rule should permit gas subsidies let me remind them that majority rule in this nation sanctioned the institution of slavery and native Indian land robbery for over 200 years. Would you dare argue cases for either right now?

Subsidizing rail becomes academic when you consider all modes of transportation are subsidized. Using existing railroad tracks is the most economical means of implementing new rail service and the logic for The Lovejoy Line as opposed to new rail directly in the middle of I-75. Commuter Rail is NOT an untried form of alternative transportation. It is already popular in cities of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Dallas, Fredericksburg (Virginia), Washington D.C, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Miami, Charlotte.

The problem has never been with consumers or businesses communities. Surveys public and private have shown Georgians want commuter rail and are willing to pay for it. The problem has always been Georgia legislators bought by special interest. These legislators have held rail hostage not having the grace to bow out when a conflict of interest exist. Therein lies our tale.

By Vinnie Kelly

April 29, 2006 08:13 AM | Link to this

In the age of Reagonomics many people sincerely believe when private enterprise is not involved in a venture it is because of failure to make a profit. What they often ignore is forces making the venture unprofitable. The very government criticized for subsidizing rail also has subsidized prices at our gas pumps, allowing United States citizens to pay less than what government is actually spending to maintain roads and bridges. This act has lead to false assumptions that gasoline would always be available and in large quantities. People have now learned just the opposite.

Automobile drivers have always been getting a free ride at the expense of taxpayers, those who own cars and those who do not. And before someone says majority rule should permit gas subsidies let me remind them that majority rule in this nation sanctioned the institution of slavery and native Indian land robbery for over 200 years. Would you dare argue cases for either right now?

Subsidizing rail becomes academic when you consider all modes of transportation are subsidized. Using existing railroad tracks is the most economical means of implementing new rail service and the logic for The Lovejoy Line as opposed to new rail directly in the middle of I-75. Commuter Rail is NOT an untried form of alternative transportation. It is already popular in cities of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Dallas, Fredericksburg (Virginia), Washington D.C, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Miami, Charlotte.

The problem has never been with consumers or businesses communities. Surveys public and private have shown Georgians want commuter rail and are willing to pay for it. The problem has always been Georgia legislators bought by special interest. These legislators have held rail hostage not having the grace to bow out when a conflict of interest exist. Therein lies our tale.

By Robert Krone

April 29, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

Atlanta is in dire need of decent public transportation. The city has lost some of its business lustre lately with financial problems at major corporations headquartered in the city and other companies being merged into corporations with homes elsewhere. The Lovejoy rail line represents a beginning for developing a much needed alternative to the daily misery on our road network that cannot be allieviated through expansion. If this opportunity is wasted I fear that Atlanta will become a has-been city and not a serious member of the 21st century business community with economic benefits for the entire state.

By Jeff

April 29, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

Since roads, airports and air travel are subsidized, why not subsidize rail? It makes sense to subsidize the most fuel efficient method of transportation, unless you are in the business of selling oil!

By juanita driggs

April 30, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

Find a straw man legislator from the Augusta area with nothing to lose politically to scuttle the Atlanta-Lovejoy initiative in the 11th hour of this session. Good ole boy politics as usual. Then count on Georgians’ short memories and provincial attitudes to do the rest. Charlotte, Nashville and other cities from sister states are eagerly looking forward to divving up the 80 million plus dollars that will be lost to us. Washington will duly note this someday when we belatedly attempt to get federal funds to help initiate commuter rail between Atlanta and Athens. Enjoy your drive to and from work ad infinitum.

By Dan

May 1, 2006 07:52 AM | Link to this

actually I think it is more likely,building the lovejoy line would be such a failure it would discourage others from being built. Also the fact still remains there really is not yet enough demand in the area to support these lines even if they are built. The taxpayers would have to be willing to support them until the demand can pay for the system. I think the metro atlanta pop would have to at least double for that to happen

By Ron

May 1, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

Yes, the Atlanta to Lovejoy commuter line must be completed.

The commuter train will use the least fuel per passenger, cause the least environmental damage per passenger and reduce congestion on highways in the Atlanta area.

Rail pasenger systems may have made profits before we began our love affairs with the automobile. During the golden years of the 50’s I used to think that as long as I had my car, we didn’t need trains or other public transportation except maybe for airplains. With my car I could go anywhere.

Then I got old, with joint problems, poor eyesight and slower reaction times. Traffic on most highways increased a hundred fold and 8 to 10 lane freeways just make things worse. Trips that used to be enjoyable are now a nightmare.

An Atlanta to Athens commuter line may have been a better starting choice than Atlanta to Lovejoy (eventually to Griffin and Macon), but the route to Lovejoy can be workable now. The NS route through Lovejoy can accommodate commuter traffic without too much disruption of freight/passenger schedules. The CSX line to Athens carries around 10 times as many ton/miles. Adding commuter trains to that route would probably cripple both passenger and freight schedules. Major imporvements have to be mde on that route before it can handle commuter traffic.

By Jock Ellis

May 2, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

Los Angeles wishes it had kept the commuter rail lines lost when the city decided to make its roads safe for the automobile. Atlanta did the same thing in 1947 when then Mayor William Hartsfield told Georgia Power to get its trolleys out of Atlanta. Unfortunately, some politicians only think an idea is good if it is new. What makes me feel that the Lovejoy line will work is that so many of our new citizens are from the North and would prefer to take mass transit. One problem with cars is that even if the price of oil was not going out of sight and that greenhouse gas emmissions are increasted, you still have to find a place to put them when the driver is at work. There is only so much space left over in Atlanta and any other city for cars. And that space would be better used for housing jobs. The comment about the limited access road from Vidalia to Valdosta has a point. When four-lane divided highway Corridor Z was completed in the mid ’80s, tiny Brantley County’s sales tax revenue spiked and stayed there. The v2V highway would be a revenue producer for counties along the route. But that would have to be built with money from a different source. Speaking of being built with money, when the interstate highway system was going before Congress, all the money went toward building it. Not one penny was allocated for its upkeep. No road or form of transportation “makes” money. But they allow money to be made. To the person worried about politicians making money on land deals, the track is already there. No one is going to be buying it or selling it. And don’t you think politicians have made money in the past and will in the future make money off land they’ve bought where highways will be built?

By Richard

May 4, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

As a native, I’m convinced most Georgians would still ride to work on tractors if possible. This state is growing far too quickly with virtually no structured growth plans or infrastructure. We spend decades designing transportation alternatives only to trash the plans/projects at the last moment and start new plans that will also likely be trashed in the future.

Georgia MUST further develop it’s public transit system to avoid the headache that it Atlanta. You can only widen a freeway so much before it is again jam-packed with our beloved gas-guzzling SUVs.

The Atlanta-Lovejoy rail is a good first step in this direction. For most public transit to be more effective in the future, Georgians are going to have to accept more dense, planned, and structure development. This should happen before “Metro” Atlanta’s borders reach South Carolina and Alabama.

What will we do then??