Opinion Talk

By OldSchool

April 25, 2006 08:11 PM | Link to this

With 20% of the jobs requiring a college education and 100% of the attention being placed on the college bound, I think it’s about doggone time we got very real and started putting some money in CTAE (Career, Technical, and Agriculture Education) classes and labs. But PLEASE! let’s avoid a shotgun approach to which schools should teach what. Down here in South Georgia we need skilled carpenters, cabinet makers, welders, fabricators, drafters, electricians, plumbers, estimators, appliance repairers, HVAC techs, computer techs, auto body techs, mechanics, and other master craftsmen/women. What we don’t need is that silly Tech Ed class with the electric tinkertoys.

Vocational Education, coupled with technical writing (instead of literature) and applied maths and sciences could be the ticket for keeping many, many students IN SCHOOL instead of dropping out. There is great beauty in the hands of a skilled worker and greater potential for earning a comfortable wage. We’re not the “ones who can’t.” We’re the ones who can and do keep this country running.

Let’s here it for charter Vocational Schools that meet the true needs of the students and communities.

By Karen Armsby

April 25, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

We have talked about this subject a lot in the ajc’s Get Schooled Blogs that Patti Ghezzi moderates. IMHO there is way too much emphasis placed by school systems, parents, and students on the importance of going to college when probably half of the students would do much better in vocational training. Schools have all but eliminated vocational tracks, and yes they should bring vocational classes back! And rather than track students, with no choice between vocational and college tracks, why not give the students more choices, and allow them to blend tracks and have more opportunities after graduation.

By Regularjoe

April 25, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this

Good post old school,

Boy’s especially have a tough time. If they don’t go straight to a 4 year college, some people want to know what is wrong with them. I would like to see them (boys or girls) have a real choice.

First people have to put value on professions. To me a skill carpenter is just as important as a lawyer.

By OldSchool

April 25, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

Thanks, regularJoe. I’ve been a voc ed teacher for 32 years now and one of the worst things I’ve witnessed was the death of Industrial Arts. There was a class that could produce some amazing craftsmen AND could be a godsend for special needs kids (when careful planning was done.)

The comprehensive schools idea was actually a really good one. Unfortunately, funding to keep shops up to date was never there. Our automotive teacher struggles to engage students today with the same 1973 equipment that was there when the voc center opened. Same thing with our metals shop. Construction just this year got revamped but only because of the industry certification program. It’s a bit difficult to prepare kids with job entry level skills today with last century’s “technology.”

By LB

April 26, 2006 06:25 AM | Link to this

There is way too much emphasis placed on football in high school and college. Everything is all about them. They want to take away the marching band but keep the cheerleaders and pep squads. They will even promote special ed people and others who don’t make the grade just to pump up the chances of winning a game. There is no reward for the good students or the C students. I agree with a previous post. Carpentry, home economics, chorus, band, auto mechanics and a host of other very needed outlets for education is not there anymore.
Used to they had a wood shop class where guys could make things. What happened to drivers ed? Why so much money spent on football and nothing for the majority of the people who don’t make the team?

By candide

April 26, 2006 07:17 AM | Link to this

Forget Shakespeare, meaningless to a majority of our youth and overrated in any case; give the kids knowledge of how to fix things, how to do everyday arithmetic, how to understand how the government at every level works. College is a waste of time for many; they learn nothing really useful. College should be for an elite — which needs to get trained for higher positions — for those who don’t need to worry about their inheritances.

By Vermin8

April 26, 2006 07:21 AM | Link to this

Yes, LB, I have yet to hear industry scream that we need more expert football players.

I do hear industry screaming that we need more workers who understand technology. I used to work in construction (I have an engineering degree - I was a PM) and they need craftsmen badly. They are filling the need now with immigrants.

For those who look down on blue collar work and think every one should have a degree: you job skills are only useful if they are in demand. I know a lot of basket weaving majors who make a small salary per year then cry it’s not fair that they have to pay a plumber or HVAC serviceman $x to fix their system. Well, if it’s so low skill and not worthy of the price paid why are you paying him to do it? Because you can’t? Maybe we should recognize the fact that these are highly skilled jobs and give these men & women the respect they deserve (I have frequently consulted with craftsman on the job for professional advice).

There seems to be a pervasive attitude in the school system that you are not educated and “worthy” unless you have a Bachelor’s and it doesn’t matter what it is. This has resulted in a lot of college graduates who can’t find what they think is a good job at an acceptable price.

By rob

April 26, 2006 07:35 AM | Link to this

Oldschool for gov. of GA, at least Sec. of Education. 20 years ago, vocational classes helped a lot of “troubled” teens find that they were skilled with thier hand maybe not thier minds, and not worthless because they are not as adept at other school lessons as many. This also helps to keep hope alive in the hopeless by giving alternates to college without taking on crime as a way of life. I work in the mechanical/construction industry and many of your most mechanically inclined workers are not “book smart”. Some are but prefer working with thier hands. Regular joe also makes a fine point. Without skilled workers to build your home, car, etc. you better find a skilled lawyer and enter the legal zoo. Maybe this is the goal. We are losing a whole class of citizens who “produce and build” and importing thier counterparts to lower wages, making the prospect unattractive for future “skilled workers”. To me the importance of vocational classes both teaches and comes from a respect for hard work. “Skilled workers” are the meat of our society without them our country is a hollow soul-less shell.

By Honey Judith Rubin

April 26, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

Seeing that you mentioned High School Bound, I thought you’d like to know about High School 101: Freshman Survival Guide which was written 62 McIntosh High School sophomores as a writing project in their honors English program…to both help them develop their own writing skills AND help ease “this potentially rocky transition” for incoming freshmen. The guidance of their teacher Dawn Burnett helped them create a polished and powerful how-to guide. More about this on http://www.hs-101.com/pages/2/index.htm

By E. Lewis

April 26, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

By OldSchool”With 20% of the jobs requiring a college education….”

I don’t know where you got this stat or how you are quantifying jobs, but let me tell you about my reality.

A generation ago a high school graduate could get a job that would allow him to support himself and eventually a family in a middle class lifestyle. Today most of the jobs that I, my friends and family have looked at tell a different story. If you want to live on $6-$10 an hour with little chance of advancement, go ahead and take one of those jobs that don’t require a degree. I am not saying that people in those jobs are not hard working. Quite often those are some of the most needed and/or backbreaking positions out there, but the path to the American dream isn’t paved that way.

A lot of jobs now require a college degree, even if the work itself doesn’t have much to do with that piece of paper. A vocational education alone used to be enough, but that’s just not the case anymore.

By Ems

April 26, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

E. Lewis is right IF one is talking about kids choosing between college or vocational tracks. However, most of the students most benefiting from vocational training will NOT attend college either way. Their choices are 1)vocational training and a livable income or 2)crime to get by.

By Birgit Morales

April 26, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

Finally somebody has put my thoughts into words.I was born and raised in Germany and have a technical education.We have different highschools we can choose from.If we are taken on the vocational education, we are only required to complete 10 years instead of 12.If we decide to attend a University,we will have to complete 13 years.That decision is made in 4th grade,the last year of elementary school. Now that I live here in the USA I have choosen to take the same level of education and am proud to be a Licensed Practical Nurse.Sometimes when asked what I do for a living,I feel some people downgrade the technical education.I love what I do,have a decent income,and would not want it any other way.On top of that,I was able to use the Hope scholarship (which paid everything) and did not have to go in debt. Thanks for having published such a great article about technical education.

By Van

April 26, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

What some have forgotten is that some technical trades do still require a degree. My daughter is a Registered Nurse and has a BS, while my son has an AS from Gwinnett Tech in Automotive Technology. Yes even the car mechanic needs to have some form of formal training in todays world.

Personally, I am a college drop out, but I when to a very elite trade school, the US Marines, and I now work for IBM and doing quite well.

By A. Flores

April 26, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Georgia is too far overdue in revamping its high school vocational educational focus on developing the minds and aspirations of high schoolers that are not necessarily college bound. Department of Education must focus on ways to motivate and inspire students about thinking about career and technical educational paths of study. With jobs going overseas or cross the border. The US is still short on essential jobs that employees thousands could be trained to perform jobs in health and social services care assistants. Finding CNAs, nurses assistants, AC/H specialists are in great demand.

Today’s job market is different and each industry has challenging. We have to produce college bound student; however not all college students land up working in their respective fields. We still need people highly trained people to hold down good paying career jobs in both the private and public sectors that demands technical skills. By getting America’s youth more involved with learning about technical education and training them for promising jobs and samall business ownership is a path to promising results. It’s great to be taugh a combination of both ademical courses and technical skills that would enable a student to go right into the job market and perhaps attend college at night.

We still have job shortage that requires certain skills and training certification. I grew in New York City, where all students had educational choices on what types of educational opportunities to pursue; should it be academic, technical, general or vocational.

NYC public schools has schools named after the career path or technical skills of studies, for example: Broolyn Technical High School, Clara Barton High School of Nursing; Edward R. Murrow High School of Communications, High School of Automobile Trades, High School of Aviation Trades and George Westinghouse Vocational and technical High School.

I believe, that Georgia educators should research these educational efforts in other cities, in order to bring new hope to our students by embracing and growing both intellectually and financially.

America and Georgia will see less drop-outs from our diverse communities upon 4 year high school completation of a technical career course. We can parter with local government agencies, industries, nonprofits and unions to make this actually happen.

By Regularjoe

April 26, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

These blogs usually have someone writing crap, posting over and over, or both. This one has been real good.

By Nel

April 27, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

A.Flores, you are right about the NYC schools. They are well known and very highly regarded. I believe that the GA educational system is out of step with the real world and stop fooling kids with the college bound or loser for life way of thinking. The reason why most jobs want a college degree is that employers don’t trust the educational system anymore to graduate literature young people.

Take the position of a secretary for instance, gone are the days that you were hired coming out of schools, most jobs require a BA degree, why, because it is thought that at least after college you can read, think, spell, write and speak somewhat intelligently. A very sad state of affairs.

By Savannah Lo

April 27, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

I think adding emphasis in schools on vocational education is almost a necessity. There is so much emphasis on graduating high school, attending a 4 year college, and becoming a layer, doctor, or dentist that it’s become the “standard plan” for schooling. But being a mechanic or carpenter is just as important and just as needed. In adding more vocational classes, it just might deter those who aren’t interested in the business or professional fields, from dropping out of school.