Opinion Talk

By Dave Gibbs

April 14, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

Well. it is spring so the ‘War on Christmas’ isn’t ‘season appropriate’ and so the delusionals have moved on in order to keep the base fired up. When your basis for all things is a strident belief in imaginary beings you really have to go the extra mile to keep from being laughed out of relevance. Claiming persecution is a sure-fire winner!

By Lyrazel

April 14, 2006 07:42 AM | Link to this

I really hope Americans can get their holidays out of the retail industry and back into their houses of worship. What is strange to me is these SACRED traditions were not actually part of Christianity but adopted by the church to make people accept the religion. Is Christmas about shopping? Couldn’t say it wasn’t now. Is jesus death about a bunny rabbit hiding eggs on the day of resurrection? Who knew!

By Casey

April 14, 2006 07:57 AM | Link to this

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Who cares if there IS a war on Easter, or Christmas, or whatever? This country is not a theocracy. Christians do not have an inherant right to force their holidays into the public forum. If privately owned companies want to quit saying “Merry Christmas” then that’s their right. If I owned a retail store and wanted to say “Hi, how you doing, Santa Claus is fake kid.” I have that right.

By candide

April 14, 2006 08:13 AM | Link to this

The only people stupid enough to believe that a dead Jew rose again are congenital idiots, the insane, and the knavish clergy who feed on their belief in the Blue Fairy.

By KB

April 14, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this

Candide, Why don’t you tell us what you really think, instead of hurling juvenile insults?

The PC attack on religious holidays in the US is in full force. Why can’t we all respect each other’s diverse backgrounds and beliefs, instead of feigning offense? This country was founded in part by those fleeing religious persecution. And here we are today over 230 years later seeing religious persecution and silencing. Pitiful.

By Michael

April 14, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this

Personally, Happy Ostara to you all.. Christian and non-Christian.

By stewart

April 14, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

Fist of all, the Five Commandments of man relationship with man is not just a Christian foundation. Its just human decency thats prevelent in all societies weather you are an American Christian or living in the most remote jungle in South America. Second, if you and other Christians want to beleive all the sillinest of your faith, then do it. Just dont slap me in the face with it, then claim victimhood when either I ignore you or slap back. I dont think Jesus would be proud of todays Christians.

By Joe

April 14, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

To Casey and all the other nut-cases, you don’t have to participate in any traditional holiday, be it Easter or Christmas, I really don’t care. What I do care very much about are people such as yourself that wish to deny myself and others the same rights. Merchants are so greedy and running scared that one little over politically correct fanatic such as you Casey or worse yet, a muslim, feels offended they alter their holiday policies. You know what you should do Casey, find a spot on the globe where you’re not offened and high tail it there and don’t let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you, we can do without 3rd world religions and people like you Casey. And Casey, by the way… I would like to wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy Easter and all the other Christian Holidays.

By KB

April 14, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

Stewart, No religion is claiming complete ownership of the principals of human decency. Just because someone wishes you the blessings of a season, doesn’t mean you are being slapped. How you receive good wishes or blessings reflects your own state of mind, and certainly doesn’t entitle you to respond rudely!

I mourn the loss of civility and respect in our society. You are part of a growing class who want to loudly proclaim they are offended and insulted by the most benign of actions. You proclaim your victimhood, instead of trying to understand and appreciate others that hold different views. You are part of a rude and divisive mob.

Try a little understanding and appreciation. Try lifting people up instead of tearing them down. Try to be civil and polite and respectful of your fellow human beings. In other words, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

By Casey

April 14, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

To Joe, I appreciate that you celebrate Christian holidays. However, you can’t ask everyone to do the same including retail stores. If I was Muslim but also owned a clothes store, and I had Muslim employees, then would you get upset if they didn’t wish people a Merry Christmas in December? It just doesn’t make sense. And Happy Festivus to you!

By Wayne

April 14, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

Jesus said “Peace, my peace, I give unto you.” It is so sad that the world stands against a God of peace, love, sacrifice and redemption. Pride in religion and pride in atheism are not distinguishable. Jesus, whose sacrifice we remember today, calls each to a personal relationship, and to love others just as he loves us. Seek Him while He can yet be found, my friends. He is alive, indeed.

By Casey

April 14, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

Oh and by the way Joe, it’s people like you who are acting un-American when you say things like that. It’s un-American to try to force everyone to conform to your religious standards. Remember we don’t live in a theocracy. It’s un-American to try to stifle someone else’s free speech and free will. So if you hate America so much, why don’t YOU leave?

By Thomas

April 14, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

Let’s not kid ourselves.

Easter is a holiday the early Christian church placed when it did to co-opt Pagan festivals which occurred at the same time to streamline their missionary work.

Just like Christmas was co-opted from Roman and Pagan winter solstice celebrations. The Christian religion is incredibly unoriginal, and all of its holidays, and even the story of the resurrection of Christ have its roots in earlier pagan legends.

Funny, 2,000 years later and a lot of people still haven’t figured it out.

By KB

April 14, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Casey, The issue isn’t about requiring merchants to give the season’s greetings, it’s about those who want to silence businesses from expressing the good wishes of the Christian religious seasons. When I lived in North Africa I wished people well during their holy season of Ramadan, and I am not Muslim. I respected their beliefs, and guess what, at Christmas, my Muslim friends and co-workers wished me a Merry Christmas.

Be gracious, and receive the good wishes of the season in the spirit they are offered.

By KB

April 14, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Thomas, So I guess you are OK with people in stores wishing you a Happy Easter and Merry Christmas?

By Joe

April 14, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

It doesn’t matter anyway because there is no God. So why can’t we just drop it?

By KB

April 14, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

Joe, God Bless You!

By Joe

April 14, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

What God? Seriously don’t mock me. You’re not going to find out there is no heaven because when you die, it’s like a light switch. You just die. So you won’t ever even realize that you were wrong all these years. That’s why I don’t fear death the way Christian nut jobs do. They fear death because they have this belief that when you die, you actually realize you’re dead. You don’t realize it. You’re just dead. Deal with it.

By Thomas

April 14, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

I don’t care, really. They could wish me Happy Ramadan for all I care, but I’m quite certain it would offend the Christians here.

Christianity, not just Christianity rather, but religion in general is for the small and weak minded.

Then again, any excuse to get off work is fine with me.

By Mara

April 14, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

This is soooo funny. Christians…claiming victimhood, again. It’s ludicrous that a group whose membership includes 80% of the population and who control every single sphere of power in the country can portray themselves as oppressed and disenfranchised. LOL!! Despite Joe’s misconception, secularists have never forced merchants to change their greeting. We haven’t “silenced” anyone. They freely choose to embrace the entire money spending world, including those of us with “3rd world religions”. What you poor persecuted Christian majority fail to understand is that never, not once, have any of us ever complained about the private (i.e. - personal…) displays of religion. What we do complain about is your expectation that the government should support your religion, give precedence to your beliefs, and provide resources for use in spreading your religion. The only time you hear complaints (from non-Christians) is when the expression of religion can be interpreted as being advocated or supported by a government that is supposed to represent ALL the people, including religious minorities.

By Lee

April 14, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

True, Christmas traditions in the Christian church were counter pagan rituals. No doubt the 12/25 date of Christmas, being after the the Winter Soltice, is not accident.

However, Easter is a holidy that follows the Jewish Passover tradition, because that is the time of Christ’s recorded death and ressurection in the New Testament Gospels. Other non-religious aspects to Easter were added later.

As for the retail “war on religion,” I agree, everyone has a right to their opinnion, and free speech is the rule of thumb, but in a capitalist society, the squeeky wheel gets the grease. Though our culture does not express it with their lifestyle, in most research over 80% of Americans still “claim” to be Christian. Seems to make sense then that Christian opinion is going to be considered by the consumer marketplace.

By KB

April 14, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

Joe, Seriously, I am not mocking you. I believe in God and I am asking God to Bless you with happiness and love and a full life, nothing more. I am not asking you to believe in heaven or hell, or to sign up for a reliegion. I am just wishing you Love. It is my belief that if you have ever loved or been loved then you have known God, because God is Love. Just because you reject the knowledge or existence of God, or of life after death does not mean that I cannot ask God to bless you. I wish you well.

By KB

April 14, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

Mara, There is a movement in the country to remove all religious signs and greetings from the commercial world. Whether it comes from non Christians or secularist does not matter. There is so much negativity in the world, what is the problem with the positive messages expressed through our seasonal religious greetings? Christianity is a part of our culture, and will continue to influence our society. Listen to the message, it’s a positive one.

By Joe S.

April 14, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

This is in response to the “Hippity-hoppity Easter hypocrites” article by the AJC staff and the response to it by Shannon L. Goessling in the article “Christian holidays mix history, culture”. The AJC staff article is right on about the pagan origins of our religious customs. Ms. Goessling also acknowledges how ecclesiastical authorities incorporated pagan symbols into Christian worship and infused them with Christian meaning. The fact that so many acknowledge this and are not troubled by it amazes me. How is this different from the “golden calf” incident in Exodus 32? The people insisted on pagan worship and in response, the “ecclesiastical authority”, Aaron, made a golden calf and said, “Tomorrow is a feast to the LORD”. The true worship of God was corrupted. Haven’t we done the same? Is not the way we worship God today our “Golden Calf”?

Whether the attack on our Christmas and Easter customs is real or imagined the fact is that one-day it will happen. Read Hosea 10:5. It speaks of a time when our “calf-idol” WILL be taken away - and many will wring their hands and mourn over it. It speaks of a time when we will have become so corrupt that even our false form of worship will be thrown out the window. Some recognize that this it happening and are fretting over it while others are scoffing at it.

I am a Christian that does not observe Easter. I observe the Passover. Why? Because that is what Christ did. He told me to do the same. I want to worship God in truth - not in a syncretic form of worship filled with paganism. God’s response to ancient Israel’s syncretic form of worship was frightening. I hope the same doesn’t happen to us.

By KB

April 14, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

The message of God has been preached, written, interpreted and reinterpreted for the entire history of mankind. Semantics can kill the message. Getting back to basics; acknowledging the spirit of God in each one of us, and treating each other with love and respect is all that we need. Don’t lose the message of love in the rhetoric of religions.

By Mara

April 14, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

Lee notes the “the squeeky wheel” theory. Whether a merchant gets a complaint or not, it’s still is the discretion of each business. They can dress their business all up in sackcloth and ashes, have crosses hanging everywhere, pipe in hymnal muzak…it’s their choice. Don’t blame us if stores choose to cater to ALL people with money, not just christians.

KB - this “movement” of which you speak…is it not a matter of free speech? Or are you saying that the few non-Christians (or secularists, 3rd world religionists, or whatever derogatory name you want to call us) have soooo much power that they constitute a “movement” to ban private religious observance? How big could this “movement” possibly be? As I said about political, social, and fiscal power…it’s mostly held by Christians in this country. Are you saying that minority religions should just sit down, shut up, and get used to having our minority status shoved in our faces everytime we want to go shopping, or salute our flag, or go into a government building? Are y’all so weak in your faith that you have to constantly be reminded about how great God is, or how powerful his lobby?

By Mara

April 14, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

Actually, except for your insistance on flaunting the supremacy of your religion, KB, you seem to be the kind of christian that give all y’all a good name…

By Get Over It

April 14, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

Some of you “bloggers” need to get over it. There is a reason your beliefs are overwelmingly in the minority. Minorities of any belief, race, whatever will fight to the end. Don’t get mad, I am sorry only a few people agree with you in this country. Move if you don’t like what Americans believe in. Go cry somewhere else. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind with your ridiculous beliefs.

By Dean

April 14, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

By the way Joe…. Christians DO NOT fear death! On the contrary, we look forward to it… Eternal life in heaven!

By Katie

April 14, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Keep posting Mara. You make for good laughter with your unsuccessful attempts to sound intelligent.

By Mara

April 14, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

Get Over It - I do like what “Americans” believe - freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, freedom of expression, freedom…period. You, however, seem to find those freedoms inconvenient and annoying. (shrug) Insult me all you want, I’m not that fragile. Insult my beliefs if it makes you feel better, my gods aren’t that sensitive. But don’t you dare try to insinuate that if one does not share your religion, one isn’t “American”.

By KB

April 14, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

Mara, I am not flaunting the supremacy of anything, nor did I say I was even Christian! I said I believe in God. FYI, I believe in everyone’s right to express the good news message of their religions. The move to suppress religious expression in businesses is all about suppression of free speech. We are expected to not express our opinions about anything (religious or otherwise)these days without fearing that someone will be offended. You need to lighten up!

By Mara

April 14, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

Ah, Katie. The quintissential christian. Not able to articulate a good defense of her beliefs, she turns to name calling and insult. What’s the matter, katie? Insecure in your religion?

By SUZAN

April 14, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

To my fellow Christians, please remember these words. do not forget that we are to be salt and light unto the world. To serve and to give hope to a world that is lost. You must understand that only those whom the holy spirit calls, will have thier eyes opened. Pray for all and know that no matter what others say The Creator, our LORD is still in control. It does no good to fight with those who have been blinded. They cannot see the truth.
Peace of Christ to all this most holy of days. Our LORD has conquered death and washed away sin. We are clean and set apart as a bride awaiting her groom.
maranatha LORD

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a]these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,[b] and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Matthew 10:22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

By Lanette

April 14, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Maybe the people in Florida having the lizard problem need to pair up with the people having the snake problem. Sounds like Florida needs to open up shotgun season on both animals to me. I’m an animal lover but don’t believe in risking the lives of people and health over them.

By Mara

April 14, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

KB - please explain how exactly we are suppressing free speech for business when what we advocate is for business’ to be free to express or not express their religious views? Is it not a free expression when merchants choose not to say “Merry Christmas”? How is it not their choice?

Is it not our right also to express our dismay at the expansion of religious influence into areas once considered “common” and “public”…such as business’? Isn’t it your choice NOT to express yourself from fear of being labled non-PC?

And excuse me for assuming you were Christian. No insult intended.

By SUZAN

April 14, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

KB and Mara,I believe a large part of the issue is that employees of many of these businesses are complaining that thier rights are violated by the expression of the employers opinions. But this is just one of the many reasons that businesses are changing. I do see though that every possible holiday that can be used or made-up is for the profit of business is utilized and pushed. That is capitalism. We a quickly becoming a society that no longer values, morals, ethics or manners or any real sense of humor. It seems that we must shove our beliefs and opinions down others throats in order that we feel justified. I wish to tread on no ones shoes, better we should learn respect and tolerence for each other. Interesting though the the least tolorent that I have met lately are the people that claim to be tolorent of everyone and everything. Secularist. But they are not tolorent of anyone that disagrees with them. We need to step back from our own rightious attitudes and open our hearts to people as individuals not as a religion, group or race.

By Katie

April 14, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

Seems like this really hits a nerve in Mara. I don’t have to defend my belief, especially in an AJC blog. I just find you humorous. Your defensive actions, though, display insecurity on your part. Keep throwing out your meaningless words and worship your “gods”. Have fun with it!!

By stewart

April 14, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

For the record, I dont claim to be a victim. The lost and respect that you mention comes from fundamental headbangers. In america christians are the only religious group that want the government to use its power to force its belief onto the public square. You can have your consumer based hoilidays.

By BlindHomer

April 14, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

It was disgraceful when my employer sold out the Good Friday holiday to pressures from minorities and exchanged it for MLK day. Why should King come before the King of Kings? And why am I at work instead of the stations of the cross right now?

By griggsy

April 14, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Mara,you are my kind of gal! all the theists can do is put up ridiculous arguments that we believers in reality and science knock down constantly .They recycle old garbage into new cans. They put forward a two sphere /catergory argument in many forms ,stating in one case the multiverse is contingent and mind /god is a necessary being, but as Malcolm Diamond shows in his book on introduction to philosophy of religion,that is to beg the question . They allge that their Fables are holy and trustworthy whn scholarship shows they are just fables.In ’ WHO WRE THE ISRALEITES AND WHER DID THEY COME FORM?”.,the author demonstrates that there ws no Exodus and that the Hebrews were Caananite tribesmen. In ” Misquoting J esus , Bart Ehrman,demonstrates that scribes changed the gospels[The story of the adulteress was not in the earliest manuscripts.] Before the scribes changed anything , flawed oral tradition put out biased information about him and his teachings. So with flawed and biased accounts, should we reality -based believers acceptthem? My carnal mind does not accept the supernatural and paranormal[ as a schyzotypal ,Iam suppposed to,but lucky ,no way!] By the way she who turns the other cheekk might end up the hospital1 And what is moral about sending someone to hellfire for not licking his behind? See ‘AN ATHEISTS VALUES.” O ther writers also question the morality of Yeshua. I call myself a naturalist ,because I am a believer in reality and science.The real unbelievers are those who use faith-based argumentation .Reason,not a long,long dead Galilean saves!”Religion is mythinformaton,” says an Englishman. LOGIC IS THE BANE OF CREATIONISTS1

By griggsy

April 14, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Sorry, my eyes failed me in my proof -reading.I am trying .Neurological defects are at play.Please ,support mental health.

By Joe

April 14, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Nope. All you people who believe in heaven are wrong. Period. There is no God. He never existed, except in your own minds. The only reason why people came up with him in the first place was so that they didn’t have to be afraid of the natural forces of the universe. They needed something to control nature so they made up a god. The truth is that through the knowledge that there is no god, I am now free from the fear that most people still deal with. I don’t need the false promise of eternal life to exist without fear in this one. That’s because I understand what death really is. It’s an end. And it’s totally final. And that’s great because once it happens, you’re gone and because you are dead, you don’t realize it. If you opened up your mind, you would see the complete comfort in that. It makes me smile. Because not only am I free from fear, I am also free from pointless, false, dogma.

By Ben

April 14, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Joe, the simple fact is, when you die, no one will remember “Joe” (if that is your name) You probably have maybe one or two people who will actually miss you when “your lights turn off.” You are practically nonexistent to most people. Their is a reason your viewpoint is shared by only a handful. You are a nuissance to society, but yet these Christians still pray for people like you. They believe in forgiveness and grace. I wish I could say the same. You keep living your nonexistent, nonbelieving way of life.

By KB

April 14, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

Mara, Think what you want, say what you want, and have a beautiful weekend.

By KB

April 14, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Joe, If you are human like the rest of us, I have a question for you? HOW do you YOU know that there is nothing after the death of our bodies?

By Laf

April 14, 2006 08:32 PM | Link to this

create a little love instead of a lot of hate. But right now nothing but hate and resentment are being generated. A little respect is needed.

By KB

April 15, 2006 06:03 AM | Link to this

If all bloggers would read more carefully, look for the positive, not the negative, don’t make assumptions, or jump to conclusions, then I think we would agree more often than disagree.

On topic, Easter is part of our culture, whether you believe, participate or care. While I agree that employers should not force anyone to give religious greetings, no rights are being trampled when someone wishes another Happy Easter,Merry Christmas, Happy Passover, Happy Ramadan, whatever. The offense is in the mind of the one receiving the greeting. People have a hair trigger these days about being offended, outraged, rights violated over EVERYTHING and NOTHING! I think it’s safe to say that most of us are not mind readers, don’t know what your religion or lack of is, or where you are coming from. And we are not required to know! All that should be required is to be civil to each other.

When you are wished a Happy Easter, the well wisher does it in a positive sense, not to offend or insult or trample your rights! The least you can do is smile and say thanks. If your arrogance doesn’t allow even that simple polite response, then it’s reality check time, because the fault lies with you, not the well wisher.

By Peaches

April 15, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

This blog, with many people voicing a hateful, irrational attitude toward Christians, is itself evidence of a war not only on Christmas or Easter but on people of faith generally.

By John

April 15, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

I celebrate Ostara, but I wish all the Christians a happy Easter.

By John

April 15, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

I celebrate Ostara, but I wish all the Christians a happy Easter.

By candide

April 16, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

According to an excellent biblical historian, Donald Harman Akensen, the Apostle Paul, who wrote before the Gospels were invented, said that Jesus had appeared in a spiritual body, that his resurrection was not physical but spiritual. Most Christians therefore believe something even Paul, who invented his own Jesus, never claimed.

Dying and rising gods were common in the ancient world. Pity the poor USA where so many people believe this nonsense.

By KB

April 16, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

Happy are those who find joy and happiness in their lives, no matter what their beliefs. Pity is for those who are arrogant and enjoy condemning, calling names and mocking others. No one of us is better than the rest. The paths we take through life are many and varied, and all that really matters is that we love and are loved.

By KB

April 16, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this

Happy are those who find joy and happiness in their lives, no matter what their beliefs. Pity is for those who are arrogant and enjoy condemning, calling names and mocking others. No one of us is better than the rest. The paths we take through life are many and varied, and all that really matters is that we love and are loved.