Opinion Talk

By jenny

March 7, 2006 10:05 PM | Link to this

yes,it is a solution immigration it will help the goverment with the economy by paying task.

By PinestrawGuy

March 7, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this

Let’s re-phrase the question a little to more accurately reflect the actual issue, making it read “Are guest worker programs a solution to illegal immigration?” And the answer is…..No. Not even close.

Let us posit that ANOTHER Guest Worker Program is passed, JUST for those who are already here. Word travels fast,you know, almost as fast as those who would race across our borders, north and south, to grab a piece of the American Dream. How would you know who’s ‘been here’ from who crawled in last night? What would you do, ASK them?

In any type of reform, it is first neccessary to identify the problem. We do NOT control our borders. Without absolute border control any GWP is doomed before it starts. It will fail for the same reasons every other amnesty has ever failed. They don’t stop coming.

So now the border is secure. Fences, National Guard, citizen patrols, whatever it takes. What about all the illegal aliens ALREADY here? That solution, amazingly enough, is so simple as to be mind-boggling. Enforce the current laws ALREADY on the books. What a concept, huh?

Granted, business owners who use illegal labor will wail about their impending doom, but don’t fall for it, it’s a lie.

Agri-business will tell you that without illegal labor a head of lettuce will cost you $10. Statistically, only 10% of the cost of fresh fruits and vegetables is labor. Even if the cost of legal labor DOUBLED, the resulting price would rise only 10%.

Building contractors will tell you that the cost of a new home would double without their illegal labor. Do you honestly believe that half the cost of a new home is the LABOR that built it? What have you been smoking? Wages paid in the construction trades have been stagnant or falling for several years. Has that resulted in LOWER home prices?

Illegal aliens have the human rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as stated in our Declaration of Independence, but they have no claims on the Bill of Rights, as that ONLY applies to citizens. People here in violation of our laws are not citizens, therefore they are not entitled to the benifits of citizenship. The only thing they have a right to is a trip back home, paid for by their country of origin. We can just deduct it from their foreign aid money.

By rob

March 8, 2006 07:55 AM | Link to this

Absolutely not. Will making drugs legal end drug use? Rewarding current law breakers does not entice future ones to follow the LAW. It is WRONG to be here Illegally. That’s why it’s called ILLEGAL. GET SMART AND STOP BELIEVING THE HYPE. If you believe lobbyist groups agriculture, construction, landscaping, poultry, etc. jobs did not exist and could not be filled prior to illegal immigration. The only benefit of rewarding illegals by enlarging the guest worker program is lowering wages and decline of standard of living FOR ALL. I understand some only want to help themselves, but they are doing it at the LAW ABIDING TAXPAYERS expense. The thought process that a better standard of living than the worse case scenerio is acceptable only causes more crime, slums, barrios, and ghettos. This is OUTSOURCING in disguise.

By NotMyProblem

March 8, 2006 08:15 AM | Link to this

FORCEFUL AND IMMEDIATE MASS DEPORTATION OF ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS is the solution to illegal immigration. Stop allowing their kids to be citizens when they’re born here, send the entire family back where they came from, deny them any taxpayer-funded social services and prosecute any employer found hiring them to the fullest extent of the law, along with massive fines. Take away any and all their reasons for coming here, and you will solve the problem of illegal immigration.

By Van

March 8, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this

Bad question and it shows the bias of the AJC. It should be -

Are guest worker programs a solution to illegal immigration?

The answer is yes, after we secure the borders ,all applications must be throught the US embassy’s in the home countries and no path to citizenship - that is done the old fashion way.

Felony convictions for using false SSN or false state documents.

By Syed

March 8, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

Van and Jenny I agree, It’s a wonderful solution. By changing few laws, we can make it even better. Of course, you will see some ignorant comments in the blogs, btu it’s free speech, even for the uneducated. Here is the idea, pass the Guest worker so that Govt can tax them and may be impose a one time fine for being illegal. Then allow the employers to legalize their illegals through guest worker program; after a grace period, make it a felony to hire illegals, that will reduce the flux of illegals, the illegal-fine can really help the funding of this. After implementing the guest worker, if we can control the employers, we wouldn’t need to spend extra in the border. Choke the demand, the supply will cut off. Another advantage of this is, most illegals save their money and send it to home, with Guest worker, they will have some social safety like no deportation, that will encourage them to spend money here and more travel back and forth to home which will help the economy.What you think Van and Jenny

By Thomas

March 8, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

I support guest workers 100%.

I use the guest workers that hang out at the Shell station on Roswell Road whenever I need them.

By J.T.

March 8, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

Guest Worker Program! What a laugh!

No. It won’t work. Why would it? We aren’t doing anything about the existing illegals in this country. Why would any illegals from any country bother applying for a Guest Worker Program? To what end? What consequences would a non-participant face compared to today where this is no program?

None.

There’s no incentive for the illegal immigrants to get involved. It’s the administration’s attempt at placating the country into thinking that they (the government) have a handle on the problem.

Bush - or someone in charge - needs to have a tete a tete with Vincente Fox and let him know that he’s got to take some action in this regard too. It can’t just be the U.S. doing it. Currently there’s no incentive for Mexico or any other Latin American country to make changes, because the U.S. isn’t doing anything to stem the flow of illegals into this country.

By RWH

March 8, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Our state officials needs to stop playing and guessing about illegal immigrants and immigration. There are laws on the books that govern immigrations for all. There are no short-cuts; do it right and legal. We keep putting in; and taking out this and that, we can’t operate that way and be affected and accountable. There is no such thing as “Guest Workers”; guest workers must come in with someone escorting them until they are finished and then they are escorted out. They cannot be guest worker and live in the state they work. Something is wrong with all of these things making thing more complicated and illegal for people to come and work here without going through the proper procedures. Its time we put our house in order and be America, a place to live, work and play; for those who have did the right things to come here. If not, they have to return and be given an opportunity like everyone else. This cannot be a forum for illegals to debate about. They to must do the right things as we would do the right things by them!

By Van

March 8, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Thomas , even if it is not exactly legal?

By ALDO

March 8, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

No. Guest Worker program is not a solution.

It is the government’s attempt at quashing the uproar over the flood of illegal immigrants into this country.

Let’s look at it this way. We tell the illegals already here that they can apply for this and all is hunky dory for them then for a period of time.

What about the folks who haven’t yet trekked across the border. Do you really think they’ll say, “Oh boy, we can’t illegally cross now, because the U.S. has a guest worker program and we don’t fit the quota.”

Why would they? It’s ILLEGAL for them to be here now and that hasn’t stopped them from coming.

And what about those who do apply and become guest workers. After three years they’ll have to go back right? Why? They were illegal before and they probably won’t have any problem being illegal again will they?

This country keeps bringing in the tired, hungry, etc. (like the statue of liberty says), so that we can put them on public assistance, but why can’t we bring in educated people who automatically become taxpaying citizens? Why don’t we get a flood of them coming in too?

By Jack

March 8, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

I can understand business leaders wanting cheap labor, but the AFL-CIO? These union officials, who welcome “guest workers”, must have been paid off by business leaders. I sure wouldn’t pay dues to a union like this!

By Jack

March 8, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

I can understand business leaders wanting cheap labor, but the AFL-CIO? These union officials, who welcome “guest workers”, must have been paid off by business leaders. I sure wouldn’t pay dues to a union like this!

By PinestrawGuy

March 8, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

Syed,

To make the charge that someone is ignorant or uneducated simply because they don’t agree with you is a bit presumptuous, don’t you think? Maybe you don’t know this, but it’s ALREADY a felony to hire illegal aliens. The laws are simply NOT being enforced.

Your convoluted approach doesn’t solve anything other than your own illegal status.

By Van

March 8, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

Jack, the AFL-CIO want them to swell the ranks of union workers, they want to unionize the guests workers. That would mean higher prices and more union dues going to the fat cats in the unions.

By Thomas

March 8, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

Van, I would NEVER make the RACIST assumption those guys on Roswell Road are here illegally. ;)

By J&J Ranch

March 8, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

AJC continues to ask about the illegal immigrants, they continue to get the same answers.

What part of WE DON’T WANT THEM HERE ILLEGALLY does the AJC not understand? If they want to become LEGAL citizens, learn English and obey our laws, that is one thing. The illegal immigrants here have shown time and again, they don’t want to be legal citizens.

The AMERICAN CITIZENS have spoken. Send the illegal immigrants, their kids, their dogs home!

By Jerry Schull

March 8, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Probably NOT…. But.. if their employers would be required to treat them like legals (i.e., workers comp, health insurance, etc) and they would be required to pay the normal taxes that every legal worker pays (state and federal income tax, social security) then I would say maybe. Remember these people don’t reinvest in America, like the American taxpayer does. Sure they pay sales tax, but the majority of their income goes back home.

But then, if we did treat then like taxpayers, who would hire them? After all the small businessmen that hire them do so to evade that extra expense in a legal worker; To get a competitive advantage over their (legal) competition. I guess it’s a form of tax evasion. So we know the illegals have broken our laws and continue to do so. But are their employers criminals also? Seems so.

By E. Lewis

March 8, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

A guest worker program won’t work for one very simple reason: $$$$. Illegals are so prized in this country because they will work for much less than the minimum wage and their employers don’t have to worry about silly thing like benefits and workman’s compensation. As soon as the guest workers have acknowledged rights, their employers will start looking elsewhere for even cheaper-illegal labor.

By Nel

March 8, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

I believe Franch has a guest worker program that brought all those people to the country as cheap labor and look what eventually happened last year. How do you police it and make sure everyone goes home at the end of their time. What do you do with the school age children while they are here, or do you only allow single people to come in? Our government needs to push Mexico to do better for their citizens, to feeling the risking life and limb to come her is their only way to a decent life. Of course, Mexico is our friend and we won’t push them to do better because the cheap labor would dry up and business return to their stockholders will shrink.

By Thomas

March 8, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

I hear this outrage about individuals being here illegally.

Where is the righteous indignation about AMERICAN businesses ran by AMERICAN citizens violating the law and evading taxes by hiring illegals? If said businesses would stop, the illegal immigration problem would all but disappear.

Just a guess, but something tells me the fact that the business owners and illegals usually have different skin colors may be cause for the varying attitudes.

By PinestrawGuy

March 8, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Let me pose a question to all of you who want a guest-worker program.

Would you want to be the poor Border Patrol agent on duty when the announcement was made?

Would you want your son or daughter there?

They’re already getting shot at WITHOUT the added incentive of another SHAMnesty. Use your brains, people.

By Syed

March 8, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

PinestrawGuy Those who are in favor of Guest worker Program, we want it to be executed with a clear, thoughtfull plan, not just someone announce this in a press-conference. Also, what I called ignorant is this- seeing my foreign name and my opinion, you assumed I am an illegal.

By Van

March 8, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

Thomas, hiring someone for a job and not paying Fica and witholding taxes on them, or not filing a 1099 with the IRS, is not exactly legal.

By Thomas

March 8, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

It’s not exactly legal, Van. It’s illegal.

My point is there is much indignation for the illegal workers themselves, as opposed to the business owners who hire them.

By Pablo

March 8, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

You know, a guest worker program could work if the intentions were actually valid. You see, the illegal immigration issue is not political; is economical. These people are offered- and they accept- hard work for small wages because companies are not willing to pay them fairly. It is exactly what is happening to hundreds of thousands of jobs being outsources to other countries. It is a no-win situation; illegal immigrants getting low paying jobs and high paying jobs being exported to other countries. What is the difference? By the way, before you are smashing my opinion, take note that I am Puerto Rican, an American citizen by birth and right and living legally in Georgia, in case you wonder…

By Van

March 8, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Thomas, now you see how businesses can be brought to task for using illegal workers. The existing law is there, enforcement is sadly lacking. Between Georgia and the feds, it looks like the law breakers will get a free pass again.

A pat on the back for breaking the law and a slap on the face to legal immigrants.

By Dulce

March 8, 2006 08:09 PM | Link to this

First of all… If you are not an immigrant, legal or illegal, J&J Ranch, you do not know what immigrants want! They come here to better their lives and those of their families. i am with Pablo in saying that a worker program could work if the intentions were valid. but i would love for any of you to spend a day in the shoes of any immigrant. whether they are Mexican, Puerto Rican, European, Asian, or African, you would maybe then see that immigrants are very important to this country. How do you think packaged crabmeat is packaged?…a machine?…no in Maryland there is a seafood plant where immigrants are doing what YOU are not. yes, they may be here illegally, but they are helping you live the life you live. so next time you go anywhere, a Mall, Wal-mart, Hotel, anywhere, ask yourself where and who is making the clothes you are purchasing, who picked the food you about to make your food with, and who is cleaning the hotel where you are spending the night at. People, stop showing your ignorance!!!

By Mike B

March 8, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

We’re suffering from 20 years of non-enforcement of the laws. Especially the laws against hiring illegals. In 2004? there were only 3 employers prosecuted for hiring illegals. Outrageous. As long as this country continues to reward those that crash our borders they’ll be lots of poeple crashing our borders. Show me one “Guest Worker Program” that has been successful. There isn’t one. From the Bracero fiasco to the H1Bs they’re all a bad joke. An amnesty/Guest Worker Program is the WRONG message and a non-answer by weak-kneed politicians that lack the grit to properly address a problem their inaction has created. Don’t break into my home then try to tell me you’re doing me a favor and I should be happy to see you. GET OUT!!!

By PinestrawGuy

March 9, 2006 02:51 AM | Link to this

Syed,

Was my assumption WRONG? If it was, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. If it wasn’t, be man enough to admit it. 9 of 10 LEGAL immigrants oppose a guest-worker program, that’s more than native-born Americans. What does that tell you?

More importantly, is my scenario wrong? Is what I’m saying impossible, improbable or likely. You tell me, my friend.

My question still stands unrefuted, boss. Would YOU want to be that Border Agent? Think about it…

By PinestrawGuy

March 9, 2006 03:01 AM | Link to this

Pablo, Dulce and Syed,

I don’t know exactly what it was I said that you don’t understand, so let me repeat myself on a more basic level.

Legal immigrant = WELCOME! ILLEGAL alien = No way, Jose!

By Syed

March 9, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

PinestrawGuy Yes, you were wrong. I am legal, not citizen and not even hispanic; just an educated guy trying to see the economic aspect of it. I can bet my pay check that you are white. I can also bet 9 out of 10 legal immigrant are against it is flat wrong. I can bet, I know and hang out with more legal and illegal than you do.Most of them, if not all, are in favor of Guest worker. Hey, if someone does or doesn’t get green card, that shouldn’t bother me, the only reason we support the guest worker is economy. I can show you many reason. Also, this is the political set up. Govt won’t mind if someone stays legal, because then they use the cheap labor but don’t have any liability on that person. The person gets a better life, despite being illegal; two way deal. It’s very very difficult, if not impossible for someone to be citizen, just take my word on that. I also bet, I know more about immigration than you do.

By Syed

March 9, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this

PinestrawGuy If I am a border patrol, that would be my job, no matter what the situation is. A cop shouldn’t afraid of his job if a riot breaks out. the answer is Yes, if I am a border patrol, I will be boerder patrol and will do my job to the best of my ability. That goes to any job that I do. If you are scraed of the flood of illegal border jumper, may me Border Patrol is not your job

By Jim

March 9, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

A guest worker program is only going to encourage more illegal immigration. Why, because it is the first step toward amnesty and eventual citizenship. I don’t think the lawbreakers should be rewarded with anything but a one-way ticket home (collect if possible). Now, while I am opposed to the idea, you can bet we will someday soon see it enacted into law. Why? Because business leaders think they need the illegal immigrants to be competative. That is not true. Maybe some believe it, while others lie about it to pad their profits. Illegal immigration was started by the farm industry. Farmers claimed they needed the cheap labor. They did not bother to tell our lawmakers how small a percent of their total costs the labor costs were. The farmers opened the gates, the illegals came, they soon discovered they could earn more in the carpet mills and construction industries and the flood was unleased. I recall when I was a youth, cotton farmers hired laborers to hand pick their cotton. Today all cotton is harvested by machines. I believe that if the illegal immigrant were forced to return home, he would be replaced by a machine that would do as good, if not better at the job and it would not cost us millions of dollars to provide medical care for it and educate its’ children. Most business owners are stupid like the contractor interviewed in one of the articles yesterday. He stated he was opposed to illegal immigration, but he hired illegals because he can’t be competitive without them. How does he know, has he ever tried? Maybe his customers are just as opposed to illegal immigration and would cut him some slack if the would put principal ahead of profits for once in his life. To all businessmen reading this..TRY TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX! To all consumers reading this..DON’T SUPPORT THE PRACTICE OF HIRING ILLEGALS BY DOING BUSINESS WITH BUSINESS THAT HIRE THEM! If we would quit supporting business that hire illegals, the jobs they came here for would disappear and so would they.

By Jim

March 9, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

A guest worker program is only going to encourage more illegal immigration. Why, because it is the first step toward amnesty and eventual citizenship. I don’t think the lawbreakers should be rewarded with anything but a one-way ticket home (collect if possible). Now, while I am opposed to the idea, you can bet we will someday soon see it enacted into law. Why? Because business leaders think they need the illegal immigrants to be competative. That is not true. Maybe some believe it, while others lie about it to pad their profits. Illegal immigration was started by the farm industry. Farmers claimed they needed the cheap labor. They did not bother to tell our lawmakers how small a percent of their total costs the labor costs were. The farmers opened the gates, the illegals came, they soon discovered they could earn more in the carpet mills and construction industries and the flood was unleased. I recall when I was a youth, cotton farmers hired laborers to hand pick their cotton. Today all cotton is harvested by machines. I believe that if the illegal immigrant were forced to return home, he would be replaced by a machine that would do as good, if not better at the job and it would not cost us millions of dollars to provide medical care for it and educate its’ children. Most business owners are stupid like the contractor interviewed in one of the articles yesterday. He stated he was opposed to illegal immigration, but he hired illegals because he can’t be competitive without them. How does he know, has he ever tried? Maybe his customers are just as opposed to illegal immigration and would cut him some slack if the would put principal ahead of profits for once in his life. To all businessmen reading this..TRY TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX! To all consumers reading this..DON’T SUPPORT THE PRACTICE OF HIRING ILLEGALS BY DOING BUSINESS WITH BUSINESS THAT HIRE THEM! If we would quit supporting business that hire illegals, the jobs they came here for would disappear and so would they.

By Glueman

March 9, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this

A guest worker program is only going to encourage more illegal immigration. Why, because it is the first step toward amnesty and eventual citizenship. I don’t think the lawbreakers should be rewarded with anything but a one-way ticket home (collect if possible). Now, while I am opposed to the idea, you can bet we will someday soon see it enacted into law. Why? Because business leaders think they need the illegal immigrants to be competative. That is not true. Maybe some believe it, while others lie about it to pad their profits. Illegal immigration was started by the farm industry. Farmers claimed they needed the cheap labor. They did not bother to tell our lawmakers how small a percent of their total costs the labor costs were. The farmers opened the gates, the illegals came, they soon discovered they could earn more in the carpet mills and construction industries and the flood was unleased. I recall when I was a youth, cotton farmers hired laborers to hand pick their cotton. Today all cotton is harvested by machines. I believe that if the illegal immigrant were forced to return home, he would be replaced by a machine that would do as good, if not better at the job and it would not cost us millions of dollars to provide medical care for it and educate its’ children. Most business owners are stupid like the contractor interviewed in one of the articles yesterday. He stated he was opposed to illegal immigration, but he hired illegals because he can’t be competitive without them. How does he know, has he ever tried? Maybe his customers are just as opposed to illegal immigration and would cut him some slack if the would put principal ahead of profits for once in his life. To all businessmen reading this..TRY TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX! To all consumers reading this..DON’T SUPPORT THE PRACTICE OF HIRING ILLEGALS BY DOING BUSINESS WITH BUSINESS THAT HIRE THEM! If we would quit supporting business that hire illegals, the jobs they came here for would disappear and so would they.

By J&J Ranch

March 9, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Dulce,

You claim that I don’t know what immigrants want. You call us ignorant? I will refrain from name calling, that would make me no better than you.

My man, born in the US, is the son of a German immigrant who came here after World War II. She became a LEGAL AMERICAN citizen. My great grandfather was an IRISH immigrant who became a LEGAL AMERICAN citizen.

The family from my mother’s side are NATIVE AMERICAN, yet since all people originated from AFRICA, they too were IMMIGRANTS.

Again, you contend that I don’t know what IMMIGRANTS want? Personally I don’t care what they want! They are ILLEGAL!

What makes you think the jobs that you name: packaging crab meat; Walmart, Hotels, etc are not needed by LEGAL AMERICANS? What makes you think that I have not been looking for a job for the past seven years? What makes you THINK the rest of us are ignorant?

Immigrants have always been welcome in America, we ask that they become legal citizens. Boo-hoo I guess that makes us bad guys?

Everyone in this country is an immigrant in one way or another. If becoming a LEGAL American is such a bad thing, *GET OUT! *

By Syed

March 9, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

I resent all kinds of personal attack, Hey we are some civilized people just having a discussion, no need for name calling. J&J Ranch With all due respect, you might not have enough info in this issue. First, your ancestor to become citizen, all they did is got onboard the ship. They landed and handed papers at the port. Done, they were citizen. Try that now; if you think the illegals are voluntary illegals, you are wrong. It’s very difficult, if Not impossible to have a citizenship. For eaxmple, I have been here since 1999, legally. Went to school here, paid 3 times the american did. Got a job, after tons or paperwork. No, If I wanna be a citizen and I start the process now, I will be lucky if I become a citizen in 2013. Now that’s with an US degree, good job and being legal all through out the time. Imagine how difficlut it would for an illegal. Also, living here legally, you can still become illegal.Example, I went to school for 4 years, had I missed a full semeter and full course, I would be an illegal too. You might think why it is so difficult. This is the policy of the Govt. Trust me, it’s lot easier to stay illegal than try to be legal. The benefit of the govt is, they use the cheap labor, but don’t have any liability or responsibilty.

By Van

March 9, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

Syed, Thanks for puting up the the pain of being here legally.

I wonder if it would be so difficult if we did not have this iilegal immigration problem?

With an extra 11 million slots available, it just might.

By Syed

March 9, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Van The difficulties have nothing to do with illegals, there is no slots. No, if, Hypothetically, you deport all illegals, it’s not gonna make my process easier. I don’t complain about the process or “pain” since this is the choice I have made. Point is, there is loss and profit involved in illegal immigration, in my view, the profit is lot bigger than loss, it will be bigger with Guest worker. Since I share the scoiety with you, what benefits you will benefit me too, regardless of my immigration status. Guest worker is vital to keep jobs inside the teritory of USA. In so many of my previous blogs, I said, Outsourcing is a lot bigger problem than your illegals. Because, most illegals, from Mexico, work the physical jobs, but outsourcing is taking out the jobs for the educated.

By Van

March 9, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

Being a corporate hack myself, I know that the real waste in this country is on corporate welfare, but we whiteys like to blame the poor and the immigrants to shift the blame off us entitled few.

By Syed

March 9, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

Van I agree. We had a very well known professor back in School, Dr. Bart Longnecker. What I learned from him is “You are responsible for whatever happens to you” . If you don’t stand up and fight for your jobs , Govt protection laws,illegal deportation, foreigner hatred etc won’t get you far. Another quote from herbert Spencer “Survival of the fittest”. Bottom line, if people don’t get real, either illegals will come here to do the jobs or the jobs will be exported.

By Van

March 9, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

Syed, the “Van” post of 03:31 was done by someone else.

Any reference back to any of my previous posts will show the content and writing is wrong.

To the coward that posted as me - may your mother find out what a butt head you really are.

I hope that gets by the AJC censors.

By J&J Ranch

March 10, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

Syed,

So, you contend that my great grandfather got off a ship from Ireland and BOOM he was a citizen? When the Irish came here, they had no welfare, Medicare, food stamps, housing. They came with the clothes on their backs, period. They were heavily discriminated against, if they starved, they starved. They were poor and had nothing.

Maybe you are the one that needs info on the issue. My man’s mother from Germany…BOOM she was a citizen? Think again. When Helga got here, she knew English and knew American laws. Since the war had just ended, she was heavily discriminated against.

Foreign exchange students are treated differently than illegal immigrants. If you break the agreement that brought you here you should become illegal immigrants. If I want to go to college out of state, it would cost me three times more than going to college in my own state. So I cannot understand your complaint.

The system to become a Legal Immigrant has not changed, has not become more stringent. Senator Isakson, in today’s AJC mentions “make it less cumbersome”, this shows that the rules and guidelines have not changed.

Because of the amount of people wanting to become Legal citizens, it may take a while to gain citizen status. Good things are worth waiting and working for. In light of the terrorists that have caused many problems for Americans, it should be understood that there is a need for checks. REMEMBER 9/11!

You want us to believe that you paid 3 times what Americans did? The first three to five years are tax-free for you. The Legal Immigrants get benefits from the govt. that some Americans need but are denied.

Immigrants who became Legal Immigrants or Citizens if you will have to apply for citizenship, learn English, learn about this country. Learn about the laws, the Constitution.

Why is it that nowadays, these Illegal Immigrants come here and expect the Country to change for THEM? We are not going to allow our Country to change for you that is unacceptable. If you want to live here, Learn English, Learn the Laws, and accept our ways! Children go to school and are taught about this country. Why are the Illegal Immigrants allowed to claim ignorance about our country and laws?

A few months back at Home Depot, we met a man from Russia. He taught himself English before migrating to this Country. He came, became a Legal Immigrant. He was appalled at the amount of Mexican immigrants here that are ILLEGAL, that WILL NOT LEARN ENGLISH, etc.

We don’t want dual languages in this country, we don’t want Spanish taught in our schools.

By Syed

March 10, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

J&J Ranch For sure, You know a lot more than me about the American history and how people got here. I have very little knoeledge on this issue, at the same time, I probably have more immigration [Legal/illegal] related knowledge than you do.

You totally missed the point I was trying to enhance. I never said this land was a bed of roses for your ancestors, yes they had problems, discrimination, profiling etc. But one thing they didn’t have is immigration problem. They didn’t require Visa, green card or things like that. They were citizen automatic. They just had to do a little paperwork. And if you think, immigration law didn’t change you have no idea about immigration. The Main difference between the time of your ancestors and now is, you need a strong reason to file paparwork and that “reason” will be challanged in USCIS. I don’t know if you know that or not, there is no INS anymore, it’s USCIS now [Custom and Immigration services]. Note carefully, I am not saying the back log issue, just changed and harder law of staying legal. Also, the school and paying 3 times, those are not complain, I was just trying to present some facts. It was my choice to come here for study so I ahve to deal with the tution.It’s not just out of state fees, we have international fees, that made it 3 times.I started NR [Non-Resident] tax file, so don’t have much info on that. But when I was wrokign as an intern and going to school,the law is, I am “assumed” citizen for tax purpose. You talked about ENGLISH. Yes that bother me too, but you need to fight your govt for that.US govt allows 50000 immigrants each year from some selected third world country [my native Bangladesh is one of them] through lottery.Pure and simple lottery, no requirements for ENGLISH, and the moment they land here, they resident,after 5 years of residency, they become citizen. They are little or no educated, let alone English knowledge. Not, my point is, Not knowing english problem is not limited to illegals or Mexicans only, it’s in your citizens too. Personal Example; A native immigrant called me to call 911 because his family was robbed at gun point, I had to call 911 since none of them can speak english, all of them work for CASH and pay no taxes and ALL are CITIZEN.

By Dan

March 10, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

Thats not entirely true syed, I believe it was probably easier, and the requirements differed over time for instance when my grandmother can here in 1918 at the age of 18 she had to prove she had a relative willing to take her in. My grandfather actually snuck onto a ship and was detained until an uncle could come and bail him out. Further more whether or not they were a citizen (and they weren’t) it really didn’t matter because there were no social programs so they had to work to eat. At that time people came here not only for opportunity but to escape poverty and tyranny in their homeland. While I am sure that is still the reason for some, in todays america there is much more that the government provides for nothing, citizen or not, so it takes less time for the move to a new country to look appealing. That is why so many more restrictions are necessary

By Syed

March 10, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Dan As I asid, I have little knowledge about American History. I was telling J&JRanch that laws are changed a lot, I am not arguing the justification of that. The whole point was, how much social service they consume. In my experience, very little , if none. To those who don’t have enough info, with fake DL and SSN, you can probably get a job ina construction site, but you can;t get unemployment benefit or medicaid. Plus, They do anything to stay away from official. Problem politician do thing for votes, not for the country. I just think people need to see the economic aspect of it rather than express opinion based on bigotry. The idea of Guest worker is excellent. Why ? the illegals will be taxed and that tax money can go to tighten the border, also they will feel more comfortable and spend more here. I know illegals and here is what they do. They know they can’t come back if they leave. So, they work and save every penny. If you allow them to travel, they will spend more money on this country. Yes, I am all about money and I see the illegals as consumer to our soceity

By J&J Ranch

March 11, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

Syed and all of the others participating…

I want to thank you all for an interesting discussion and want everyone to know I intended to offend no one. If I did, I apologize.

Yall have a good one! Look forward to doin this again! :)

By Syed

March 12, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

J&j It was great chatting with you.

By Syed

March 12, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

J&j It was great chatting with you.

By Giovanni

March 15, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

I am the product of illegal immigration. But my mother married a US Citizen.

So that said, I do agree that US Borders should be tightened and that immigration laws become more streamlined and that anyone coming to US should go through the channels. But those legal channels are corrupt, lack professionalism, and are subjective.

The problem is the VISA requirements. How many of you are aware that certain Europeans & Asian countries do not require VISAS or permissions to enter the US or that there are no quota limitations from these countries! For a person coming from Latin America, they must provide identification documents and prove financial resources. This is just for the passport. There their are the requirements for the VISA (not the credit card provider). Here is the fun part! To get a VISA or permission to enter the US, there are certain rules or procedures that the office clerks must follow. Are you ready for this, THEY (Office Clerks)DO NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW THOSE PROCEDURES! You will get excuses from them as to why you were declined and it has nothing to with criminal records or any of the such considerations that every country should. It is just the the clerk did not feel like giving one that day or perhaps that he/she needs a little extra incentive from the person applying.

What is the alternative? You either pay off the clerk or you cross illegally (much cheaper). Talk to those who cross illegally and they will tell you how much they pay to cross the border. We are talking anywere from $2,000 - $30,000 US dollars.

My point is that going through legal channels is not any better then the illegal channels they are unfair and corrupt. Visit sometimes you will be surprised.

By the way we are servig in the US Military fighting in Afghan and Iraq see what happens when you tell them “GUESS WHAT WE JUST KICKED YOUR PARENTS OUT, CONTINUE FIGHTING!”

By Van

March 15, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

Giovanni,

Why do the foreign countries make getting a passport so difficult? You said you could bribe the clerk as an alternative, is this clerk in US employment?

Why would a country make it so difficult for its own citizens. The part of proving financial resources sounds outlandish and heavy handed.

By Orlando

April 19, 2006 04:37 AM | Link to this

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