Opinion Talk

By candide

January 17, 2006 12:32 AM | Link to this

Portray Christian unfairly? Nonsense. TV fails to portray Christianity as the severe mental disorder it is and the false consciousness it gives to millions of Americans. Christianity keeps Americans in a childish belief in the Blue Fairy.

By The Grinch

January 17, 2006 07:53 AM | Link to this

candide, I bet it sucks being you.

By Mara

January 17, 2006 07:57 AM | Link to this

Why, yes. Television does portray Christians unfairly. On TV they are invariably kind, patient, decent, and helpful. They refuse to place themselves in judgement of others, leaving that to God instead. They never argue over what is “Christian” and what isn’t. They are clean, sober, and free of lust. The television Christian also tends to be open-minded, non-judgemental, welcoming, tolerant of those who waver in their convictions, and forgiving of human weakness.
Were television to portray Christians realistically they would be as bigoted, egocentric, and selfish as any other person. It would show how their “unwavering faith” is, in truth, arrogance because they are sure that they know who God is, what he wants them to do, and how he wants them to do it. They would be shown in all their “I’m-better-than-that-dirty-sinner-over-there” glory. If portrayed honestly, it would show how gleeful they are to point out the sin and their willingness to cast the first stone at the unrepentant sinner. They would occasionally be seen drinking, wenching, bribing, killing, molesting, drugging, and cursing. Just like any other fallible human beings. So, yes. Television does portray Christians unfairly.

By Brian Curtis

January 17, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this

Well said, Mara. I can’t add to that.

Except to be glad that insipid “7th Heaven” show is finally winding down. Yeesh, what a pile of condescending crud that was.

By Mara

January 17, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Brian C. I’m with you on the 7th Heaven thing. Gah! What a bland, vanilla world they lived in.

By candide

January 17, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

Grinch: you must be one of those moronic Christians who have never had the balls to grow up.

By The Grinch

January 17, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

Candide, I am not a christian but I have the balls not to complain about them. Live and let live is the way I think. After reading a lot of your posts I think you hate everything and enjoy taking things away from people because they don’t share your beliefs. If a person wants to have faith in a rock, that’s their problem, but I don’t complain and whine about them. You have everything and it must suck being you.

By Bob Van Keuren

January 17, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

It amazes me the Christian Right should get offended about a TV program’s depiction of Episcopalians. They have made it abundantly clear they do not consider us Christians anyway. What they may not suspect is that for some of us, the feeling is mutual. For myself, I do not see the Christian Right as at all loving, or as very good exemplars of the Sermon on the Mount. I can therefore do without their “protection”. Nevertheless, being Christian is no guanrantee that a family won’t have problems — all families have problems. What’s different is that today we have a little more honesty and a little less hypocrisy.

By candide

January 17, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Grinch: it does matter what people believe. If they, like Pat Robertson, would take you to war on the basis of deranged biblical passages then I would want to disarm them and prevent their poison from harming us all.

By GWW, Cartersville

January 17, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Jesus said “woe to them who take offense, for offenses they will come!” If some of my Christian sisters and brothers on the right think they are bing persecuted, they should take a hard look at Christian history especially in the early church with believers being fed to Lions for mass sport, imprisoned, crucified, tortured, and during Nero’s reign even being used as human torches. Christians on the right, quit complaining of ‘persecution.’ You don’t know what persecution is! Be thankful to God you have the freedom and non-interference you are guaranteed in this great country. Who said being a Christian was easy anyway? Check your Bible and your personal theology more closely and, for heaven’s sake, quit whining!!!

By E. Lewis

January 17, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Where was this argument when African Americans were portrayed as buffoons and attackers of the purity of white women by Caucasian actors in blackface; homosexual men as either pedophiles or only as extremely feminine; Arabs and Muslims as terrorists; married couples sleeping in separate beds, etc, etc?

Christians are as diverse a group as has ever existed. It would be nice to think that we all lead chaste lives of devotion to somebody’s version of God and Christ, pure in spirit, waiting until marriage for sex and avoiding all temptations. Guess what? We are human, capable of sin and to pretend otherwise is to show our own hypocrisy.

Besides, television is about stereotypes, trends and making $$$. There’s plenty of programming geared toward Christians. Have you ever heard of ETWN, 700 Club, Pax TV? Watch what you want, avoid what you don’t. The programs that attract viewers will go on and those that don’t will soon be off the air.

By kimberly

January 17, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Who gives any credence to the network portrayal of ANYTHING? Hello? Everything they do is about advertising revenue. Everything! Get a clue.

By BlindHomer

January 17, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

Considering it’s all myth based on faith, almost any depiction that lends any credibility to it whatsoever is actually being generous. Amazing how so many can be more upset and take religion more seriously than reality. What was it Marx said about “the opiate of the people”?

By Dan

January 17, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

I am not necessarily religious, but it is humorous to see the agnostics and/or atheists fear of religion. Sure religion like any other social institution has its good and bad history. But throughout written history it is hard to find a secular society that did not fail miserably and create massive human disasters both intentionally and unintensionally through unworkable social policy. BlindHomer is a perfect example. Yes, Marx did say it was the opiate of the people. But have you ever seen a nation of people in more of a drugged state than communist russia, or china or korea or vietnam. Kind of ironic don’t you think?

By Michael H.

January 17, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

This particular minister has written columns which reveal an extraordinary clarity regarding the status of religion in the United States, which seems unusual in someone in the Baptist Church. He is certainly correct in pointing out that there is no “attack on Christianity” or assault on religion in a country where churches dot nearly every corner, enjoy a tax free status, and politicians seem obliged to assure us of their own religious beliefs as if piety were requisite for political legitimacy.

I think he is exactly right in his description of the television program which seems to be something of a pale imitation of the campy humor of the excellent Desparate Housewives transferred into a religious setting. It is a mediocre program at best, because it is poorly written, so so in its acting, and strains credulity in a fashion that even the “Housewives” fail to achieve.

We should probably separate Christians as human beings, who are not really being portrayed as any different from the rest of humanity in this program, from Christianity as a belief system. The former should be given the respect and dignity that all human beings are given, but as a belief system, it is as open for criticism as any other belief system.

By Michael H.

January 17, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Ooops,

Desperate Housewives, not desparate. Jez.

It is humorous to hear that the religious right has been critical of the program. Here is another gem from Pat Robertson that tops anything portrayed or said elsewhere on television:

”You say you’re supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don’t have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don’t have to be nice to them.”— Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, January 14, 1991

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

January 17, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

No, Christians are not portrayed in bad light. People as a whole are being misrepresented. There are good and bad people in every segment of our society. We see lots of people (races,religious, sexist) being portrayed badly, it doesn’t matter if you are Christian/non-Christian.

Why don’t we work on improving the entire human race and the way we are all portrayed on TV?

By The Grinch

January 17, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

Candide, how in the hell is Pat Robertson or any other christian going to take us to war? You are just paranoid. I don’t take anything Pat Robertson says seriously. To me he is just like the guy standing on the corner yelling we are all going to hell. Who gives a crap? I damn sure don’t let it get to me or try to silence the guy. You seem to be on the attack mode with religion. You are like the people who want stuff taken off the TV or radio because it offends them. this text will be bolded JUST TURN THE CHANNEL!! BTW Merry Christmas!! Oh I bet that offended you……

By Chris Gill

January 17, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

I’m a born-again Christian, and I can say that television does tend to portray Christians in a more negative light. However, because I did not grow up in the “church cultureâ€? and turned my life over to Christ as an adult, I can see the arguments of those who are not Christians objectively. We can a be little smarmy and “churchy,” with our “Sunday morning veneered smilesâ€? and our passive-aggressive “forgive the sinner talkâ€?, but hoping God drops an anvil on the offender’s head. We also can be a little judgmental and self-righteous, as well. But as a whole, no group of people are more aware of their self-limitations and failures as we are constantly having to compare ourselves to our boss Jesus Christ, who is perfect in every way.

As far as “never growing up�, the Bible says that the ‘wisdom of God is foolishness to the world�, and vise-versa. The two will never have a complimentary view of the each other. And while Christ did teach the Sermon on the Mount, He also instructed us to “repent for the kingdom of Heaven is near�, in addition to telling the young adultress He would not condemn to be stoned, “Go and sin no more�. So one can no more profess to be a Christian just because he is meek, than one can just because he passes judgment. When we see things that are done wrong, we are to call them wrong, and extend mercy and forgiveness to the offender in the hopes they would repent. We were never instructed to be morally neutral. No person, religion, or school of thought could ever perform those mental gymnastics.

And while many of us struggle with the effects of sins within our humanity like pornography, alcoholism, drug addiction, gossip, scoffing, sexual immorality, lying, greed, and malice; most of us never stop reaching for the “abundant life� and “light burden� that Christ offered those who would take it. On top of paying our tax burdens, we give more of our personal resources (monetarily and in relation to our income) than any other group on the planet. Unlike some groups, we can count our whack jobs on one hand, with a few digits to spare, and no group expends more effort helping those in need. Even if some of us do go beyond the boundaries of our self imposed accountability, we all understand the detriment to be accountable to Someone other than ourselves.

For every pastor who swills whiskey and chews Vicodin like Tic-Tacs, there are 1,000 that don’t. For every preacher that calls on god to rain down fire from Heaven, there are 1,000 that don’t. And for everyone of us that are asked if we want our lives to count for something other than selfish gratification, many would reply “ Absolutely, where do I sign up?!!�. So, the easiest way to absolves one’s self of accountability, is to discredit anything that would convict of our flaws. Hence, the “dope addict pastor� and his dysfunctional family.

By BlindHomer

January 17, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

Dan - Reasonable point about communism, but that doesn’t change my “fear.” You only have to look to 9/11 and the thousands of related deaths since to see why religious extremism should be feared. Not Christians. How about the joys of the crusades, including thousands of little children marching off to fight what various misguided rulers thought were God’s battles and very few returning? Ancient history. Pat Robertson calling for blood? An isolated whacko. All I’m saying is there has been lots of evil done in the name of God, all by extremists, so there is reason to be afraid.

By candide

January 17, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Christians, I am convinced after much contact and study, are mentally ill.

By karla murphy

January 17, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

On T.V. people portray Christians in various ways. One would be that they are good people who help everybody out and never do wrong, and the other would be that they are good in church and at home they would be totally different. So the answer to the question is no, they do not portray Christians unfairly. No matter what anybody thinks there are people at every church who put on a front in front of their church friends and aren’t the same at home with their family. And then again there are others who are kind and want to help whomever they can, out. Karla Murphy

By John Hopper

January 18, 2006 03:22 AM | Link to this

It is obvious to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that the media is biased against Christianity. “Rev.” Evans forgets who he is an ambassador of. Is it any coincidence that Christians are always portrayed as neo-nazi, far right-wing Republican idiots? The ACLU (which was founded as a communist organization — check your history) is out to destroy every symbol of Christianity in America. The hypocrisy is palpable. The Gay and Lesbian alliance will complain that there is not enough gay characters on TV and have (at least in the past) felt like they were discriminated against. Can anyone tell me one character currently on mainstream TV who is a man or woman of faith and credible? There’s your proof right there.

By candide

January 18, 2006 07:15 AM | Link to this

Grinch: many evangelicals are supporting imperialistic war in the middle east because they believe in crazy biblical prophecies about the end of days. Our involvement in the Iraq war has been based on both Jewish and Christian fanaticism about biblical prophecies. Bush is born again, which means he is a dangerous fool.

We do not need religious freedom, we need freedom from religion.

By The Subversive Librarian

January 18, 2006 07:49 AM | Link to this

Actually, John, the ACLU was formed in part to protect the rights of communists, just as it later protected the rights of neoNazis. That doesn’t make it a communist organization, any more than my defending your religious rights makes me a Christian. Indeed, in 1940, the ACLU barred communists from leadership positions in the organization — an action its members later came to regret.

By Mara

January 18, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this

HA HA HA HA HA!!!! It’s “Christians” like you, John Hopper, that make the whole group look like paranoid idiots. The ACLU was formed to protect legal aliens from being deported because of their political beliefs, which did happen to include some who espoused communism. But to say that the ACLU was formed to promote communism is simply fatuous. Somewhere around WWII they formally barred anyone from the organization who promoted or supported any totalitarian regime. As for the “destroy every symbol of Christianity in America”…what a doofus. It just p** you guys off that you can’t count on the government giving you favored religion status anymore. The only suits the group has filed “against” Christianity has been in regard to holier-than-thou’s using government resources to advance their agenda of a totally Christian U.S. Your image of jack-booted ACLU thugs burning churches, knocking down crosses, and dragging screaming Christians from their pews to force them into gay marriages just begs to be mocked.
And since you suggested that people look up the history of the ACLU, perhaps you should do the same. Maybe you’ll see that they have been just as zealous in protecting the rights of Christians to annoy the rest of us as they have been in protecting the rights of homosexuals to equal treatment under the law. Whether you are able to accept the truth of it is a whole ‘nother question.

By Brian Curtis

January 18, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this

John: Can you tell me ANY character on mainstream TV, Christian or otherwise, who is credible?

Get a grip. It’s TV, people. Of COURSE it’s not going to give a balanced, objective portrayal of our society … because that’s not entertaining.

By Dan

January 18, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

yes Blind Homer I agree, but as you say it is the extremists that cause the problems not the majority and those people use religion as a lever to bend the people to their will, it is not the religion itself and lets not forget, another form of imitation is to do the exact opposite, in other words, radical anti christians or secularists are every bit as dangerous as extreme religious types. Take candide on this blog for example, one of the more hateful and ignorant posters she immediately attacks anything that she does not agree with. Who is more dangerous someone who eschews logic and reason simply to badger something they don’t agree with or someone who while they may differ with your reasoning is at least consistent and measured in their approach

By candide

January 18, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

hopper: the only way to portray Christians acurately would be in an insane asylum.

By kimberly

January 18, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

Please allow me to repeat for those of you who just don’t get it:

Network television is in the business of MAKING MONEY. Their portrayals of EVERYONE are those which they think will sell the most advertising. “Fair” and “accurate” are not adjectives that enter into the equation. There is no conspiracy against Christians, only a conspiracy to GENERATE THE MOST POSSIBLE ADVERTISING REVENUE through ratings. What garbage will more people watch? That is their only question.

By MB

January 18, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Can anyone tell me one character currently on mainstream TV who is a man or woman of faith and credible?

Sure, how about Hank Hill?

By Carlton Wyatt

January 18, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Having watched “The Book Of Daniel” on NBC, I can now understand why the “religious reich” are so upset. This new television show exposes them (albeit in a condensed version) for what they really are: lying, cheating, cursing, hypocritical, back-stabbing people. I have no doubt the religious zealots are upset, few like them enjoy having a spotlight focused upon their foibles.

By Bradley G

January 18, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

Candide, you can no more understand my belief in God than I can understand your lack of belief in Him. I’m sorry certain Christians have created a mindset that all of us can be lumped into one hypocritical melting pot. Christians can’t even agree on how to worship God, hence the different denominations and organizations. How in the world can you lump us in a nice, neat category if we can’t do it ourselves? Bottom line is, you either want to know more about a Christian’s belief in God or not. If I’m wrong about my belief and there is no God, at least I’ve lived a life “trying” to be good and will be well-remembered by my group of friends. If you are wrong about your disbelief, you are in a much worse position.

By candide

January 18, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

Bradley G: You are using Pascal’s Wager, but it won’t work for you. If you believe in God as a hedge against his existence do you really think your believe will be credited to you, since you believed not out of persuasion but out of opportunism?

No, I cannot understand your belief because there is no evidence of God’s existence. All belief in God is either based on wishful thinking, childish dreams, or the desire to dominate others.

My non-belief is based on reason, logic, empirical evidence, and history.

By candide

January 18, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Bradley G: you are repeating Pascal’s Wager. But if you believe in God out of a calculation do you think it will really do you any good, if God exists? I think not.

Better to believe in no God, since there is no evidence of a God of any kind, except perhaps a God in the mode of Spinoza, which is the same thing as Nature. And that kind of God does not get involved with people, their needs, their sins, their desires, their hopes. It is like the non-God of Buddhism.

By The Grinch

January 18, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

Do you have a tin foil hat on right now? Ya know what? I bet you are p** off at something right now too…..

By Bradley G

January 18, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

Candide: yes, that is the wager. It is not the reason I believe, but more to show that your disbelief had better be right for your sake, soul, salvation, etc.

LOGIC, REASON, EVIDENCE, and HISTORY

I can’t logically or reasonably believe that at one moment nothing began to explode into the something that is the universe. Even science has to admit that a catalyst must be involved. I CHOOSE — a very important word here — to BELIEVE — there is another — that an omnipotent being had a little something to do with it. That being for me is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

One cannot see what one refuses to see. I see “evidence” all around me of God’s love.

And, there is enough historical data to support the POSSIBILITY of biblical history being accurate. It’s there, an general statements are easily debated (as I’m sure you will debate mine!)

By Brian Curtis

January 18, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

Bradley: Besides, where do you get your assumption that non-Christians don’t also live their lives trying to be good? Christianity doesn’t hold a monopoly on virtue, after all.

By Brittany

January 27, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

I think Christians are mocked by the way the media portrays us! We Christians are not dull and yet we aren’t complete psycho’s either. We have a hope and we have faith. I never see any TV shows that show how christias really are. I look forward to the coming of Christ and I never see that in ANY TV show! Shows like Joan of Arcadia or movies like Bruce Almighty really make God out to be something He is not! If people knew more about the God they so easily seem to be able to capture on screen they would see someone totally different

By Susie

January 30, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

Brian, I believe that there are Christians and non Christians who do try to live virtuous lives. None of us succeed all the time, but I think how you live your life as a whole is what matters.

I also believe that there are so-called Christians and non-christians who use their “beliefs” or lack thereof as a weapon to hit the “others” over the head with.

As a Christian, I believe that people like Pat Robertson are going to have to answer to God for the things he’s done and said, just like those he’s always “condemning to hell,” (as if he has that power.)

Christian means “Christ-like.” Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps, and their ilk are NOT behaving Christ-like, because Jesus didn’t bring people into the fold with HATE like these idiots think they are doing, he did it by loving them for the sinners they were.

Instead of standing on a street corner screaming hellfire and brimstone to the hookers and theives, he hung out with them, talked kindly with them and treated them like fellow humans. He is the one who told the angry mob “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Pat Robertson and Phelps would do well to remember those words.

That is the “Christ-like” that I want to be, and it’s the “Christ-like” that any real Christian aspires to. A real Christian doesn’t have to prove anything to anyone, the only thing that matters is what’s in his or her heart. When you see someone “making a huge show” of their christianity, that’s rather suspect, to me, anyway.

There are good people and there are bad people in every religion and in NO religion. People just “are who they are,” and whatever religious affiliation they claim can’t be held responsible for them being “bad” people, because if that were true, all Christians/Jews/Muslims/whatever would be bad, and that couldn’t be further from the truth.

And if you have some belief that “all Christians” are like Pat Robertson, then yes, the media does portray Christianity unfairly, and the people who believe what they are being fed are a few bricks short of a load.