Opinion Talk

By Sean Lanoue

June 21, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this

Centinial Park is the ONLY place in downtown that has a chance to give visitors a great experience of Atlanta. The rest of downtown needs a make over. There are WAY too many homeless people around downtown that makes anyones experience a bad one. We have too many LARGE homeless shelters in the downtown area ( Pine St., The Rock, Salvation Army, and the big new shelter being build by the jail ). Just drive by any Sunday around lunch time at Pine St Shelter on Peachtree or the Salvation Army shelter RIGHT behing the new aquiriumn no less… you just want to lock your car doors and keep driving. Solution would be to have many more smaller homeless shelters all around town ( 50 or less beds ). While no ones wants a homeless shelter near them, smaller shelters do not have the negative impact as these MEGA shelters do. Downtown has the potential to become the next Midtown, if the homeless problem could get under control.

By Dan

June 21, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this

It’s best side no. The reality yes

By BigDaddy

June 22, 2005 09:09 AM | Link to this

Dan, just out of curiosity, what kind of cryptic, esoteric garbage are you trying to spew? Please flesh out just how downtown shows the reality of Atlanta. Baited breath and all that…

Anyway, downtown most definitely does not represent the best of Atlanta. Visitors who stay downtown do not get a good glimpse of Atlanta life, as they are incessantly hounded by very aggressive bums on their way to nondescript chain restaurants available in every other city in the country (Hooter’s, Hard Rock, the gawd-awful food court at Underground, et al).

The best of Atlanta is offered in its neighborhoods such as L5, VaHi, Morningside, Inman Park, Ansley Park, Brookwood Hills, Buckhead, etc, and sorry, suburbanites, the best of Atlanta is definitely not found in the cookie-cutter suburbs north of the city; my kids have built more attractive architecture out of legoes.

I applaud what some developers are attempting to do downtown in creating housing downtown, I just hope Mayor Shirley doesn’t strong arm these developers into creating a mess of Section 8 housing or we’ll be right back to where we are now. The creation of a downtown neighborhood and proper handling of the homeless would go a long way to giving visitors a real taste of Atlanta.

By Michael Davis

June 22, 2005 10:10 AM | Link to this

Downtown Atlanta’s homeless population is out of control. Everywhere you look there are people roaming the streets, eating out of garbage cans, and sleeping in corners. Woodruff Park reminds me of Michael Jackson Thriller video, released in the 1980’s. The schene, in which, the dead awake from the cemetary, arms extended forward, and begin their slow walk toward the city.
It is impossible to walk pass Woodruff Park or anywhere around Underground or 5-points marta station without feeling like your being targeted for a handout. The majority of panhandlers are the ones that appear to be very capable of working. In fact, they are very clever; they observe turist walking down the street, noticing them looking around, as if they are searching for something, then they yell to them from across the street, asking where are they are trying to go? As soon as they tell them they bolt toward their new prey, and then move in for the kill. It’s very annoying, maybe if their so capable and good with people, they ought to seek employment as a consierge at one of the many downtown hotels.

By rob

June 22, 2005 10:15 AM | Link to this

You can’t get clean drinking water or flush the toilet but at least we ran out the homeless. Sounds attractive to me. Why is it okay for a homeless person to “beg” in poor areas but not others? Moving the poor from one area to another depending on the whims of the rich and trying to enforce it by law show atlanta’s true side to visitors. “We only care about cash, if you don’t have any you are trash.” It is a city. Cities have poor, homeless, crime, traffic, etc. Take the good with the bad. Sorry your crystal palace on the hill is touching the dingy shores of reality. Maybe we can move all of the poor and homeless to apartments in rural areas, bulldoze the projects, build a million lofts with no parking, and turn 285 into a alligator filled moat to keep out the unwanted. Hey that plan is in action. The blueprint was the olympics and Techwood. Atlanta has become a city who is “to busy hating the poor and stealing from taxpayers” to care about anything other than the green. A tourist can spend thier money anywhere. Hate and class warfare are not tourist attractions. Maybe new transplant attractions. It amazes me how a city built on “diversity” shows such hate towards the “undesired”. Remember, you too were unwanted by someone, somewhere, at one time. Were they right or are you wrong?

By Janet

June 22, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

I work downtown and can tell you that a good percentage of panhandlers are NOT homeless, it is a business for them. They spend their day downtown and then get in their cars or ride the bus home. We have them in Gwinnett County. They live in motel rooms rented by the week and stand on the I-85 off-ramps begging for money EVERY day.

You cannot deal adequately with the true homeless because of the Federal dollars associated with the issue. Non-profits that take Federal and State dollars to “help” the homeless will go out of business if they truly solve the problem and get people off the streets. This is why they are against letting the city police our streets and parks. The homeless are their “clients” and “customers” and the only reason they get funds to pay salaries of their employees. If the homeless go away, they go away, along with their government-funded salaries.

The truth of the matter is that there are a lot fewer actual homeless people than we are led to believe. Large cities attract these people because we hand out food, services, medical care and housing to them. It would be interesting to see how many of “Atlanta’s” homeless are actually from Atlanta and how many have traveled here from other areas. It would also be interesting to see how many homeless people there are per capita in rural areas as opposed to metro areas. My guess, is that wherever there is an entitlement program, you have a concentration of “homeless” people.

The City of Atlanta should be able to pick up panhandlers, run their records, find out if they have criminal histories, where they are from, etc. and deal with them accordingly. “Career” beggars should be put out of business. This will enable the truly homeless to have access to services and to get off the streets.

By Dan

June 22, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this

Actually downtown has very little to offer as to the feeling or essence of Atlanta. Midtown and VaHi is a much better candidate with piedmont park and the myriad of shops, restaurants and old tree lined neighborhoods. Atlanta just isn’t now and isn’t likely to be a buzzing concrete metropolis. Not to mention downtown being downright nasty

By Mike Woolley

June 22, 2005 05:21 PM | Link to this

No, we do not and the city administration should be ashamed. They need to go to Chicago and some other great american cities like San Francisco, and see what they do. they don’t seem to have the “homeless and panhandling problems” we do, because they enforce the laws on the books and don’t ignore them because they might offend someone. Atlanta will never be aal it can be until City Hall gets some backbone. Plus, the interstate coming from Hartsfield- Jackson is a disgrace. The strrets are dirty, weeds abound, etc. This is the first impression many visitors have of Atlanta and it is shameful. The city should take all those homeless and panhandlers and put them to work earning a bed and a place to stay and something to eat by cleaning up our city. We’d all be ahead. As to the homeless shelter issue, convert the Atlanta schools they keep closing to shelters. we already own them and would only have the cost of staffing and food.

By Debra

June 22, 2005 08:03 PM | Link to this

There are SO many homeless people in the area around Baker St, Pine Street, and Williams! And has anyone noticed that the new aquarium is right across from the Union Mission? Visitors to the aquarium will have to run the gauntlet of homeless. If they dare to ride MARTA to the Civic Center station and walk to the aquarium, they will find a nasty MARTA station and a trail of homeless guys under all the trees and bushes along their walk. Atlanta is a beautiful city - why do we allow some citizens to run down our city and ruin it for everyone else? Is their constitutional right to not work, sleep under a tree all day, and pee on the sidewalk more important than everyone else’s right to enjoy the city we support with our tax dollars, earned from WORKING???

By BigDaddy

June 22, 2005 09:25 PM | Link to this

rob, how many times were you dropped on your head as a child? While it’s true that I may not be wanted at one of your social gatherings, I hardly see how that is a relevant comparison. If I were at one of your Imagine sing-alongs and began to argue with you and your leftists buddies, you could ask me to leave. If I did not comply, you could call the police and have me removed. If you call the cops on an aggressive bum, do you think he’s going to hang around to give his side of the story?

And as far as your ridiculous class warfare rhetoric goes, perhaps one day you’ll grow up and realize that there is a symbiotic relationship between the rich and the poor. They are co-dependent. The rich need the poor to work for them; the poor need the rich in order to have jobs. Don’t like the system? Move to North Korea - you’ll have a blast. At any rate your attempted rich slander has nothing to do with the issue of panhandling - nice try though.

By the way, I applaud your imagery of an alligator-filled moat along 2-85, but again you have demonstrated a lack of knowledge - alligators, being reptiles, would have an exceedingly difficult time surviving the winters here - but you are thinking along the right lines - maybe we could heat the water a la an aquarium and add piranha? Just throwing out ideas here…

By Robert

June 23, 2005 07:31 AM | Link to this

Just stumbled on this discussion, while virtually visting form my home in Lancaster, England. I was looking to see if the newspaper was saying anything about the lobbyist scandals in Washington, which implicates some major figures in Georgia politics. It doesn’t. And Ralph Reed is a millionaire many times over. But looking at the local comments on the terrible problem of homeless beggars, as commentators see it, a terrible problem apparently not for the people who are forced to beg for a living but for the respectable middle class folk who find themselves so horribly inconvenienced as to have to come into contact with beggars, I find … what? Xenophobia, muted racism, self-defensive chauvinism, even arguments to the effect that begging is caused by the terrible GENEROSITY of liberal Atlantans, and that social workers actually promote homelessness and begging in order to hold onto their jobs. Too much. Sadly, the sterotypes one acquires of Americans, southerners, and Atlantans are only too quickly confirmed. You ARE bigots, aren’t you?

By John Thomas

June 23, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this

I was born and raised in Atlanta and I can honestly say I have absolutley NO idea why anyone would want to come here. Maybe the Aquarium will provide a single reason to travel here. Other than that, we have some of the worst crime in the country and the police department and the City Council don’t want to do anything about it because it would mean acknowledging that we have a terrible problem. I’m just so glad I live outside the city and do not have to travel in to downtown very often. The panhandlers and the homeless are not only a problem but they are very aggressive and push themselves on you. It really is a disgusting city. But, HEY, after all we have to look out for the homeless first right? After all they are the ones who pay the taxes aren’t they? Oh wait, NO THEY DON’T!

By BRITTNEY STAPLETON

June 23, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

I am from Chicago,Il. and its hard to find places where homeless people sit on residential blocks. There needs to be more resources(shelters, missions) in Atl for the homeless. While Atlanta is spending $30 million building lofts and apartment complexes for imigrants to Atl, the people who were born and raised here are finding themselves out of work, out of a job and out of luck. Atlanta’s city officials (Mayor Shirley Franklin and friends) need to ACTIVELY propose a plan that will incorporate the cities homeless into Atlanta’a booming job market. Companies like CNN, Bell South and Turner financially dominate Atlanta there should be some way of having a prosperous economy in a southern city without reverting Atlanta to Aristocracy, the haves and the clearly defined have nots.The answer is simple, Atlanta’s ELECTED sity officials just need to ask the right questions.

By BigDaddy

June 23, 2005 01:18 PM | Link to this

Robert, thank you ever so much for interjecting your British moral superiority into a problem of which you have not a clue. Have you been to Atlanta? It doesn’t sound like it. I find it highly irritating that you would find the need to comment on a situation about which you obviously have no knowledge, and then to further your error by heaping scorn on those who don’t share you’re apparent liberal bent. But I guess since you have all the answers, there must be no homeless problems in the UK. Oh, wait, that’s right I used to live and study in London, Paris and Rome, where there is a sizable homeless and panhandling population. I only wish the London bums were as fun as the Parisian - they put on a great show in the Metro. The difference between the European panhandlers and what we have here in Atlanta is that the Atlanta bums are extremely aggressive in attempting to menace individuals into giving money, or at least try to guilt trip them into it, and most of the Euro-bums at least try to entertain you for your spare change.

I think it’s funny that you’re trying to lecture us on tolerance and xenophobia when Lancaster’s nickname is “Hanging Town” due to the local zeal to string up witches, according to Wikipedia.

So, as far as being bigots, you could say we are all biggoted against smarmy British snots hurling insults from across the pond. Now bugger off and find a dentist…

By Coti Perez-Espinoza

June 23, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this

Question? if ilegal inmigrants find jobs in Atlanta, why not the homeless? I agree with one og the comments ” You cannot deal adequately with the true homeless because of the Federal dollars associated with the issue. Non-profits that take Federal and State dollars to “helpâ€? the homeless will go out of business if they truly solve the problem and get people off the streets. This is why they are against letting the city police our streets and parks. The homeless are their “clientsâ€? and “customersâ€? and the only reason they get funds to pay salaries of their employees. If the homeless go away, they go away, along with their government-funded salaries” Have the panhandlers and homeless fin a job, to earn their living.

By Dan

June 23, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

well big daddy just trying to answer an esoteric garbage question with an esoteric garbage answer. after all that it seems we are somewhat in agreement based on the other posts

By Dan

June 23, 2005 03:34 PM | Link to this

A lot of these comments may seem harsh and they may be just a bit. But I think the frustration stems from the fact that here more than anywhere else in the world, with a little elbow grease you can succeed. All you have to do is show up for work on time and you are in the 50th percentile of workers. The two sides you hear most are the homeless are scammers and the homeless are mentally disabled. How about the middle which probably includes most is they are lazy. We have created a society that expects to be taken care of whatever politician is looking to oust the other runs around telling people what they deserve and what “rights” they have Well apologies to PJ O’rourke but you have one right in life and that is to do as you damn well please and your one responsibility is to accept the consequences.
There is plenty of trash in the streets of atlanta we should round them up and have them pick it up to earn a night in a shelter a meal and a few bucks. They do that for a week or so they can buy some cloths and get a job at McD’s and so on. for as long as we have been a country 100’s of thousands of people have come here with just the shirt on their back and done just that and succeeded So can they

By BigDaddy

June 23, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

Brittney Stapleton, I think your heart is in the right place; unfortunately, it is not attached to a brain based in reality. Mentally ill homeless and drug-addicted vagrants are not too high on the candidate list of any corporation, large or small. And last I checked, mayor Shirley has no legal authority to compel a private business to hire anyone (to wit: her failed attempt to change membership policies at the private Druid Hills Golf Club).

Yes people come here for jobs, but they are qualified for those jobs, and have worked to become so. Also, don’t you find ita bit disengenuous casting aspersions on native Atlantans as being lazy, shiftless and jobless? I moved here when I was three, so I’m as native as most, and I’m gainfully employed. My siblings who were born here are gainfully employed. All my childhood friends are gainfully employed. They didn’t need luck to get their jobs - they worked for them. It’s not up to mayor Shirley to get these vagrants jobs - it’s up to the vagrants to get themselves jobs - they are actually an impediment to the economy. The best we can do for them is to get them off the street and out of the way of those who do work. Treat the mentally ill and drug addicts and place them in halfway houses. But don’t give them any money - these societal leeches don’t deserve another dime from a handout.

By Carlton Wyatt

June 24, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Here’s a viable solution: hire the homeless and panhandlers to prop up BigDaddy’s enormous ego. We’d probably have to go to other cities and bus extras in for that gargantuan task!

By Lyrazel

June 24, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

Why would anyone go there? To stand on hot cement and compete with traffic? No thank you. To sit on park benches that reek of urine because theres not a public restroom available! No thank you. To gaze upon empty storefronts? To be accosted by panhandlers? To stand in the litter and watch rats scamper from clogged drains? No thank you. The olympics brought only traffic to downtown—downtown really has little to offer—shoppers, visitors or even locals except a host of chain restaurants. Its a vile and filty place where workers dont even enjoy being. Its central train station is a haven for panhandlers as well as mentally indigent who pose dangers to many who need to use MARTA.

Why build mega homeless shelters in an area where homeless people will never find employment???? Its so ludicrous, its good-will overrides good sense.

I wouldnt go downtown Atlanta without adequate police protection. So why, would a tourist?

By Dan

June 24, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

Oh I am opposed to handouts thats why I suggest having them pick up trash before they get a room or a meal or any stipend. We should at least get something for it. Of course than the sanitation workers union would complain

By Pat

June 24, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

I run into a lot of panhandlers on MARTA. I try to help them by telling them where to go to get a meal or a bed. Most tell me to shut the !*!! up. Some tell me they don’t want to get meals or shelter that way. They want to stay on the train and ask me and others for money. I ask them to clean up, at least, if they want to ride the train. A person can not even stay in the same car with some of these folks. I think most people know that many of the “homeless” are mentally ill and addicted to drugs and/or alcohol. They used to receive treatment and medication in government facilities until Mr. Carter pulled the plug on that in the 1970’s. I think it had something to do with violating their rights by keeping them in hospitals.

By ottawamarc

June 24, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, we have the same problem in the tourist areas of Ottawa, Canada. The only way (I) see of dealing with panhandlers is to post signs in tourist areas to please not give money to panhandlers. Perhaps the lack of willing donors will deter them and make tourist areas within the downtown area more pleasurable for tourists.

By BigDaddy

June 24, 2005 09:51 PM | Link to this

Carlton Wyatt, good to hear from you (I remember your posts from the pre-election posts). I have to say that I chuckled at the ineptitude of your rejoinder. Frankly, I was expecting better from you. You should know by now that my ego needs no propping up; as a Libertarian, I’m unflappable in the face of liberal idiocy. I guess you’re just attempting to display that famous liberal penchant for tolerance of other ideas, as well as holding an utter disdain for the truth…

By Bob

June 26, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

I recently spent 10 days with my daughter at Grady Memorial Hospital. She was air-lifted to the trama center after a bad car wreck and the wonderful staff worked a miracle and saved her life, I will forever be grateful. However, after the inital shock wore off and I surveyed my surroundings, I could not believe what was goind on around me. To enter the hospital, you have to pass through throngs of people just hanging out, sleeping on the concrete or trying to sell you something. Many times I had to walk around people lying in stairwells.A lot of these people were filthy and smelled terrible. The waiting rooms, restrooms, and phones were in constant use by people “off the street” who had no business in the hospital at all, except to use the conviences. At night was the worst. Street people would roam the hospital looking for places where they could sleep. I saw many of them sleeping on the couches in waiting rooms and get up and leave in the morning. When my daughter was finally realeased, she was in a wheelchair. We could not even get a car to the curb to pick her up for all the illegally parked cars. In closing, I thank God for Grady but I would never ever go there unless absolutely necessary.

By jon

June 27, 2005 01:02 AM | Link to this

Atlanta can not show her best because people of Atlanta “do not care about what the city looks like”. They are just like all other large cities who segregate the city in to the rich,poor,and deprived portions of the city. There motto is, ” Take from the poor and give to the rich. It will take the city of Atlanta many years,multiple city councils, and millions of dollars to clean up the city. Are there any people willing to make the struggle.?

By BigDaddy

June 27, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

jon, can you give us a quick economics lesson on how the rich are taking from the poor? Are you saying you’re against developers revitalizing areas and selling them to people who are willing to maintain those areas? Shouldn’t you just come right out and say that you’re suffering from a mean case of the green envies? No, let’s not go that far - we all know that if a million bucks fell into your lap today, you’d just maintain your current hellpit apartment in whatever blighted area you currently live, instead of moving to a safer, nicer and cleaner community.

The existence of these posts and the panhandling posts give the lie to your statement that people don’t care what the city looks like.

I will agree with you that it will take multiple city councils and millions of dollars of taxpayer money to clean up downtown because the city council has shown zero backbone in addressing the homeless issue. If we could all agree that the panhandlers and vagrants need to be removed, perhaps our politicians would understand that we want action. Instead they kowtow to those who have a vested political or financial stake in maintaining the status quo.

Please write, call or email your local city council representatives and let them know that you expect them to address this issue!

By Ray

June 27, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

I love Atlanta. This is actually the worst problem with downtown, and the full answer would be very complicated. I think consultants from cities that have fixed a similar problem need to be brought in, such as Rudy Giuliani. It wouldn’t hurt to put a mayor in office who knows how to take care of business either, but I have given up on that dream for at least 15 years.

For starters though, more shelters for those who need it have to be provided. Also, the police need deal with people who ask more than once. I am fine with someone asking for money, once. I decline and continue walking. If they are then polite, I actually turn around and give them a dollar or so. In many other cities, this works great. Here though, the beggar will start mouthing off lies about how they just got out of the hospital, or how I am a racist and thats why I won’t help, etc…

I never go downtown for this reason, but I love the layout and wish the problem could be addressed

By Ray

June 27, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

I also highly agree with the smaller shelter idea laid out by Sean

By Carlton Wyatt

June 28, 2005 09:05 AM | Link to this

Thank you, BigDaddy, your response to me simply proved my statements about you as accurate and succinct. Also, you’re about as much a “Libertarian” as Karl Rove. What is it with some right-wingers being ashamed to say they’re GOP? Maybe a nice group therapy for self-loathing GOP’ers is in order.

Now, does downtown reflect well on Atlanta? Not at all. It has become a blighted eyesore and embarrassment. Unknowingly, I took some visiting friends to Underground and was appalled by the condition of the area and the content of the facility. There is nothing downtown to draw one to visit, or spend any appreciable time there. I used to enjoy shopping at the downtown Macy’s and Rich’s, but those venerable institutions are no more. The plethora of panhandlers and homeless both disgust and sadden.

When discussing what to do about the homeless and panhandlers, many here seem to forget that these are still people, with feelings and problems. The hateful rhetoric out of some of you is more than lamentable, it is beneath contempt. I’m not suggesting the homeless and panhandlers (which are not necessarily the same) should be coddled, but there should be a way to help them without resorting to draconian measures. So much for the lie of “compassionate conservatism”. There is NOTHING compassionate about you so-called conservatives here.

By BigDaddy

June 28, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

Oh, Carlton Wyatt, you caught me… I’ll guess I’ll have to tear up my Libertarian registration card. Funny how you liberals try to fix every “problem” with a “group therapy” session - don’t ya’ll have any original ideas? And I never purported to be in favor of compassionate conservatism. I’ve always believed that you’re either part of the problem or part of the solution. And panhandling-enabling liberals, or “progressives” as some like to be called, are definitely part of the problem.

But thank you for formulating such a thoughtful response. You truly are a credit to your GED…

By Carlton Wyatt

June 29, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this

BigDaddy: grow up. Your continued display of childish bravado is really tiring in these forums. You’ve become the resident buffoon, you offer no solutions, only insults and self-promotion.

In every category in which you post, you offer nothing constructive. So tell me, can you offer a VIABLE solution to the problem Atlanta faces with downtown? I see criticism from you, along with much invective at other people who offer their opinions.

So please stop the school-yard bully tactics. They do not compliment your claims of superiority and in fact indicate the opposite. You most likely will continue, though, because people like you can’t help themselves, you need to denigrate others in order to elevate yourself in your own mind. To others here your charade is very obvious, however.

By Ray

June 30, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

I actually went downtown a few weeks ago and took my glasses off for a minute. Downtown could be amazing. The layout is great. With a quick removal of the aggresive panhandlers and a good pressure washing (or possibly sand blasting), it would be an awesome part of town. Then I put my glasses back on and saw why I never go down there. It is the worst part of Atlanta.

Even if downtown was cleaned up, it would be amazing, but not a portrayal of Atlanta’s best side. I agree with BigDaddy, Atlanta’s little clusters are what makes the city great, such as the Highlands. And, I really appreciate developers taking this even further. Downtown would be an awesome addition. Then, if someone could figure out the Buckhead problem…