Opinion Talk

By Buzz Brockway

June 7, 2005 12:11 AM | Link to this

For Amnesty to put the US on the same plane as China, Cuba, the Sudan and other places that routinely murder and torture their citizens is an outrage.

The American left needs to stop believing the phony allegations of terrorist.

By Randy Hill

June 7, 2005 07:14 AM | Link to this

The “report” by Amnesty International is a left-wing piece of propaganda. Sure there were a few abuses, humankind being what it is. But to compare Gitmo to a Soviet gulag? Just an excuse to criticize the Bush administration. Get a life.

By Erin

June 7, 2005 08:07 AM | Link to this

Whether the report is accurate or not, since the current administration used an Amnesty International report to back up our “humanitarian” invasion of Iraq, I guess we ought to be consistent and believe this one, too.

By Scooter

June 7, 2005 08:07 AM | Link to this

I don’t feel that the detainees treatment is nearly as bad as Mr. Berg’s. Actually, I’m pretty confident that our detainment is civil the most humane in the world. That’s where that free press thing comes into play.

By Ben Skott

June 7, 2005 08:22 AM | Link to this

If only we lived in a world where the worst thing being done to people was humiliating them. Unfortuntely there are far worse things being done to people who have no rights at all all over the world, and Amnesty International would rather go after Bush. There are still slaves being traded, and they decide a couple of mistreated Korans are more important. The comparison to the Gulags is an insult to the millions killed in the Soviet Union under Stalin, and only gives enemies of freedom more encouragement.

By Van

June 7, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

The real question is “Does Amnesty International has any credence?” At the best, they are not part of the UN, but a private group of do-gooders. At the least, they are a group that ignores the rights of countries to be secure. They condemn the US for the death penalty, but they have not said one word about abortion, eventhough they hold the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”(all people are equal, but some are more equal than others) in high regard. Article 3 states “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.” What no word about the pursuit of happiness?

They look at our war on terror as a law enforcement activity and not a war. Without access to Gitmo, they call it a gulag, which they have backed off on. I guess they forgot what a gulag was. The fine fellows intered there are fed regularly, we have provide for their spiritual needs, medical needs and housing. All this in return for engaging in battle with US troops. Maybe we would be thought of better if we did not take any prisoners. Maybe we could treat them like the terrorists treated Eugene Armstrong, Daniel Pearl or Paul Johnson Jr.

While AI “Amnesty International strongly condemns the beheading of two American hostages and appeals for the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages.”, we run a gulag. Real strong stuff.

By E. Lewis

June 7, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this

Yes there is. Many of the critics of this report buy into the PR that the Pentagon and the White House have been trying to create to boost the “idealism” of what they are doing. The military should stay out of the spin zone.

When the orders are sent out to the ranks to complete the mission that is what they do. The average soldier is left with one goal, and only one goal, in mind: follow orders. Problems arise when the leaders fail to lead and train their personnel on the proper ways to conduct the mission. This is especially true when the mission is being led by Guardsmen who are not as well trained as active duty although they try their best. Many things go right. Some things go wrong. There is the inevitable cover up and eventually the information leaks out to the media.

Unfortunately, given the record of lies told surrounding the whole thing, it’s extremely difficult to believe a whole lot of anything coming out official channels concerning this war on terror.

By phil greene

June 7, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this

As a Criminal Lawyer for the past 36 years I can tell you that Guantanamo simply mirrors our domestic prison system in which we incarcerate and abuse the highest percentage of our citizens than any country on earth. Don’t tell me this is a free Country. The freest Coubntry jails the fewest of it’s citizens. We are not that Country. It is interesting to note that several soldiers acused of abuse are American prison guards when not in the Army.

By Lee

June 7, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this

Each report of abuse so far has triggered the US to day “pshaw! that can’t be!” and then you hear “oh wait, it’s not REALLY abuse” and then “Well, you know, we probably shouldn’t have done that” to “HEADS WILL ROLL!” and then a low ranking soldier who was allowed to skirt the rules gets punished.

Like the Newsweek report regarding the flushing of the Koran. US says “There are no reports of flushing!” and then we hear “the Koran was placed in unclean conditions.” Of course, when I now hear “the reports of abuse are absurd” from the president, I think “the president doesn’t see this activity that is wrong as abuse, but he sees it as lawful because the terminology people use with him is not the same as the world uses”.

So, of course the allegations have substance; all other allegations have had substance before, even if it wasn’t exactly as reported. But of course, I don’t believe everything the prisoners say either, because they are very willing to lie and expand on the truth to get their way.

But then, they all should get fair hearings, instead of just the assumption that they are all terrorists. Especially after hearing that many prisoners were sold to get US bounties for al-qaeda members. Unscrupulous warlords will always sell their neighbor for a few more bucks.

By Van

June 7, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this

phil greene, what rock did you climb out from under.

If an idiot robs a Quiktrip, who is responsible? Society? no that fool that robbed them. Prison is the result of bad life choices, not whatever slop you’re pedaling.

And I guess humiliation is a form of torture also - right? Not hardly.

By Brian Curtis

June 8, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this

What amuses me is that all the objections to AI’s report take the form of “How dare they criticize us! We’re America, we don’t do the sort of things we’re doing!”

We’re not above reproach, folks; pretending we’re perfect doesn’t address and fix our problems. Like Bush himself, we won’t get anywhere if we keep pretending we never make mistakes. Guanatamo—a “non-place” created to house “non-persons”—is such a mistake. And the U.S. is supposed to be better than that.

By Scott Williams

June 8, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

It’s pathetic how any person or organization who dares criticize this current administration is automatically given the dreaded label of “Liberal” or “Leftist”, while unflinching, unquestioning cheerleading for everything that administration does is rapidly turning “Conservative” and “Right-Wing” into embarrassing and shameful labels in their own right. Both Liberalism and Conservatism, in their truest senses, have noble heritages, although you won’t learn anything about that from “conservative” pundits these days. But I digress … all Americans, liberal and conservative alike, should be equally ashamed of what has happened at Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, and elsewhere - “We’re no worse than they are” is no defense for us, regardless of how overwrought the term “gulag” may have been. We’re supposed to be better than this - at least that’s what we’ve always told ourselves and the rest of the world.

By Dan

June 8, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

Ben Skott has it right in a nut shell, the very fact that gitmo is compared to the gulag discredits that source automatically. Even some of the most anti bush crowd out there has to admit that it is complete nonsense. If the us simply shot each gitmo prisoner in the head and closed up shop it still would even register as a rounding error in comparison to the gulag. Or the killings under saddam’s reign for that matter. Such accusations probably help the administration.

By Brian Curtis

June 9, 2005 08:06 AM | Link to this

It’s an over-the-top comparison, yes. But that doesn’t excuse what our people have been doing there, or the fact that it exists at all.

This is NOT what America’s about. Indefinite detention without counsel or charges? The creation of a new “unperson” status that has no rights? Using an unaffiliated chunk of land to make sure what we do isn’t subject to any legal jurisdiction? Heck no. This is a black eye for everything the U.S. supposedly stands for, and it will be remembered with as much shame as slavery and the Japanese-American detention camps of WW2.

By Dan

June 9, 2005 08:40 AM | Link to this

SW Anyone who really thinks anything happening in Gitmo and Abu Gharib is torture, has been way to sheltered and is in fact a hopeless leftist. The very fact that some people in this country actually think that, activities that make frat hazing seem like hard labor is abhorrent, just solidifies our standing as the worlds foremost champion of civil rights

By Lee

June 9, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

What else do you call a place where prisoners are held without hearings, without representation for years on end? With no foreseeable trial dates?

Should we call it a “Concentration Camp”? That term has its own connotations which don’t translate to Gitmo, but it’s the most accurate term I can think of. “Gulag” has different connotations, and isn’t thought of as badly as “Concentration Camp.”

This is NOT what America is about!
Future Americans will look on this time in shame (as many Americans do now), and wonder how we let this happen.

By Mike

June 9, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

I totally agree about the 18 wheelers being allowed to drive too fast on the interstates. Some of the drivers go way too fast for conditions. I’ve had them get on my tail because I was only going the speed limit in one of the right lanes. If I had stopped, there is no way they could have stopped. It’s time to reign them in.