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Home > Terence Moore > Archives > 2008 > December > 12 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USDooley days of coaching long gone
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vince Dooley was the football coach at Georgia for 25 years. They just put a statue of the guy on campus. Anyway, if he were starting his career today, and if his Bulldog teams were to perform exactly as they did during that stretch, he’d last maybe half as long, probably less than that.
I’d give him four years.
Tops.
“Well, I had a couple of crises to deal with,” said Dooley, laughing, while recalling his College Football Hall of Fame coaching stint at Georgia that ended after the 1988 season.
Before we continue, let’s jump to the present, where another college football coach likely got whacked while you were reading this. From Washington to Syracuse, and from Eastern Michigan to Miami (Ohio), we’ve already had 17 coaching resignations, firings or both at the Division 1-A level, and consider this: The bowl season hasn’t even begun.
It’s out of control. It only will get worse, too, especially if you wish to coach among the big boys some day.
“I think most people would say there is less patience [regarding the careers of college football coaches] in this day and time,” said Dooley, who also was a Georgia athletics director. “Maybe it’s salaries. Maybe it’s the generation — the so-called Now Generation, where there is less and less tolerance. Maybe it’s a new wave of athletics directors, where most of them have not coached. Maybe it’s a combination of all of those things.”
Maybe Dooley benefited as a pre-Baby Boomer. The same goes for the likes of Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno, still active as head coaches with Florida State (33 seasons) and Penn State (43 seasons), respectively. Those from Generation X and beyond are in coaching purgatory. Which brings us back to all of those times when Dooley would have been yesterday’s news in Athens. You know, if the climate around college football coaches back then resembled that of now.
He once had his likeness hung in effigy at Sanford Stadium — after just his fourth season with the Bulldogs, and after they’d captured the SEC and the Cotton Bowl the year before. Courtesy of an average of seven victories for three straight years through 1974, there were “Dump Dooley” stickers everywhere.
There also was that Jan Kemp scandal during the 1980s that featured Georgia football players ignoring the “student” part of a student-athlete in embarrassing ways.
Dooley survived. As for what would happen to a coach with such a resume today, he said, “There is no allowance for a bad season, or even for a bad game.”
For verification, you have the SEC of the last few weeks. Tommy Tuberville was forced out of Auburn despite an 85-40 record after 10 seasons. His Tigers regularly whipped Top 10 foes, but among other things, they lost the Iron Bowl this year to dreaded Alabama. It didn’t matter that they had won the previous six.
Phillip Fulmer grabbed a national title, two conference championships and seven divisional titles in 17 years at Tennessee. He was fired — a season after reaching the SEC championship game.
Then there was Sylvester Croom, who resigned at Mississippi State after a mighty shove from his bosses. Never mind that he inherited a probation-filled program that sits in the middle of nowhere (as in how can you bring talent to Starkville?). He left after five years despite taking his 2007 team to eight victories, including ones over Alabama, Auburn and rival Ole Miss.
Guess Tuberville, Fulmer, Croom and the rest were born at the wrong time. Or Dooley was born at the right time.
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By Tom Tucker
December 12, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Terence,
With all the meaningless fluff we read about Tech and Georgia on a daily basis, I’m surprised there hasn’t been a peep about a recently released report from Central Florida.
It’s from a group called the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport.
They just compiled the graduation rates for all the bowl teams this year.
The Jackets and Bulldogs don’t stack up very well at all.
Don’t you think the overall ratings would be of some interest to college football fans?
www.tidesport.com
By Herschel Talker
December 12, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Too bad Terence’s days of writing aren’t long gone.
By How long...
December 12, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
…is the “reason” MSU is a tough place to sell to high school athletes is because it is “in the middle of nowhere” going to be used? Starkeville is 70 miles from Tuscaloosa, which, too, “is in the middle of nowhere”. But AL does not seem to have problems. I guess being 70 miles closer to B’ham must be considered a “real draw” by everyone except me.
By gwatl
December 12, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
In the case of Tuberville, the guy gets fired and walks away with over $5 million!! If that is ‘getting born at the wrong time’, then I all for ‘rebirth’!!
By Don in DC
December 12, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
It is the money, Mr. Moore. Once the coach accepts the big contract, he also accepts the responsibility of meeting the expectations implicit in the salary.
By Bulldog Joe
December 12, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
With Dooley, you start with defense to get the ball, add a solid kicking game that will win the close ones when it counts, then top it off with a run oriented offense designed to control the ball and use up clock and you have a boring team but a winner. It may not be flashy today but it consistently won games and frustrated opponents in Dooley’s days. It could still work but fans want flash and excitement.
By Bdawg
December 12, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
I’m getting a bit tired of this faux outrage relating to football coaches being fired. Except for Tubberville, the other coaches mentioned got what they deserved. For Fulmer it was apparant his program had fallen way behind Florida and Georgia and Alabama, and anyone could see he could not bring the program back, despite a good career. For Croom, he had a great year last year, but this year isn’t it obvious he did not have the program on the right direction to even compete in the SEC? Ty Willingham went 0-11, there is no way you can keep him at Washington. The Syracuse coach made that program pathetic. This is the nature of the game. If you are an SEC coach and the best you can do is 7 wins after 4-5 years, then that is the probably the peak for you.
By AltamahaDawg
December 12, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
And Erk Russell would have been fired 4 times. Imagine the internet second guessing and insults he would have heard NOW to have had the kind of defenses he had at various times during those year.
By BBR
December 12, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Well said, Herschel Talker!!!
By Bisher's better
December 12, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Amazing: TM is the only guy in the world who can write a column on UGA football — and no one responds to it here. Just goes to show how little he matters.
By Terence Moore
December 12, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Gwat,
You bring up a good point. There definitely is a lot more money involved with coaching college football these days compared to the past. So, in many of these cases, a coach could be saying secretly to himself, “Fire me. Just as long as you pay me.”
You can’t blame some of them, especially given some of the crazy things from boosters and fans they must endure.
By RedDevilDawg
December 12, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Tom Tucker,
That report is complete nonsense. Yes, minority hiring is lacking but you and other morons only equate that to blacks. How many Asian coaches are there? Hispanic coaches? How many transexual Somoan coaches? LOL This report and group expects blacks to have half the jobs and that is ridiculous considering they only make up 13% of the population (according to the 2000 census). So in reality, the amount of black athletes is out of proportion and needs to be addressed. Since probably 50-60% of players are black, that is cutting out the proper number of whites. I am for diversity all around and let’s use the census. Give blacks their 13%, Asians theirs, Hispanics theirs, and the rest is white. That is the only fair way to do things, right?
By Forever
December 12, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
How long…,
Alabama is Alabama and Mississippi State is Mississippi State. Do we really need to discuss the difference here? How about SEC titles, National titles, winning seasons, college football legends on the field, sideline, and the stands (can MSU fans historically compare to Bama fans)? Alabama has a legacy, what does MSU have?
MSU should be happy with their occassional rise to the top of the West and should strive to lose respectably in “down” years. When teams like UGA, Tennessee, Auburn, and Bama are not winning MNCs and are barely winning SEC Championships these days, what makes you think MSU should be on their level on a regular basis? The only chance MSU has for sustained success is to land a coach who loves MSU, is a great recruiter, and will not leave for something bigger and better should he produce a small period of success. Beyond that, your AD and boosters need not fire a coach when his team slips back to a 4 win season after a few potential 7/8 win seasons. You’re going to have to endure a decade of ups and downs but remain stable with the head coach if you want to build a consistant winner. Teams aren’t willing to give a coach that long and that’s why certain teams won’t reach the top.
UT and Auburn will both be great again one day but by losing 2 great SEC coaches it’ll be later than sooner.
By Pitbull
December 12, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
People in this day and age are spoiled and want instant gratification. There are a lot of folks out there that lead unhappy personal lives and so try to identify with a college football program to make them happy.
When that program does not win every game, they take it personally. They are sick individuals and colleges need to quit letting them influence their selection and retention of coaches.
They come from all areas and have attended or pulled for just about all major schools for a variety of reasons. They are “fans” of Georgia, Tech, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida State, Florida, Alabama, LSU, Miami (FL), etc.
They along with sports writers who cater to them by creating controversies, headlines to increase circulation, readership, and media profits are close to killing college football as a sport.
As a Bulldog, I hate them more than I hate Tech. I have often said that I wish such fans would find another team to identify with and pull for.
And I wish the AJC would just write about Tech and ignor UGA and stay out of Athens. We do not need them, but they need us to live off of, like a shameless parasite needs a body.
By ReggieATL
December 12, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
I wonder when a certain sports columnist is going to be fired for using too many run-on sentences and comma splices. It be such a loss…who else would be able to scoop Georgia Tech’s third string quarterback after bible class, or turn Joe Hamilton’s opinion on the BCS (a playoff format would apparently hurt academics…even though I-AA, II, and III does it) into the gospel on the subject.
By JAWGAGURL
December 12, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
If all the AJC had to write about was Tech then it would be a pretty boring paper!!! GO DAWGS!!!!!!! SIC EM WOOF WOOF……
By Mr. JMT
December 12, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
I hear you talking Mr. Moore! Maybe, it’s time for Coach Richt to wake up and show some fire to rally the team. We Dawg fans are just like Bama & Auburn which means it is unacceptable to lose to Tech. He has become too commercialized. I hope he doesn’t think that the Dawg Nation won’t go looking for a replacement. We want BCS contigency and not a freakin Cap 1 Bowl. Do your job Richt! The talent is there. Look at how Coach Saban turned the tide program around. Those kids a very discipline, and you don’t hear any foolishness about that behavior off the field. Those same values and discipline need to be instilled in the UGA program. Richt allowed it to get out of control, and I truly think this caused us the record that we had this year.
By gmaness
December 12, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
BULLDOG JOE summed it perfectly (and I bleed “Clemson Orange & Purple!”). The eleven meetings between Dooley’s Bulldogs and Danny Ford’s Tigers (who also believed in a strong defense and an even stringer running game) were, personally, some of the most exciting games I have ever seen … but, probably 95% of today’s fans would have found them extremely boring due to the non-existent passing games of both teams.
BTW … Dooley - 5, Ford - 5, 1 tie.
By rickd
December 12, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
You are wrong Altamahadawg. Erk’s defenses were always good. Even in 1979. The lack of play and talent was always on offense. I can assure you there would never have been any internet blog about his defenses. Can’t say that about the offenses though.
By jay
December 12, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Moore please are you serious ?? Does the name Charlie Weis ring a bell? You really need to wake up and get real seriously? Is their a bad taste in your mouth cause the black coaches arent lasting on the big stageof college football?? Tyrone Willingham Ha! pitiful Hello ! It all boils down to intelligence at the end of the day!
By FLA DAWG
December 12, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Yeah Moore,
Dooley was just born at the right time, he was lucky - huh?
What a dope you are. I was there when Dooley struggled and I recall the signs that read “Dump Dooley”. You know what happened Moore Man? Dooley changed. Instead of being Mr. Nice Guy and Buddy Buddy with the players he became a Commanding General. He hired good asst coaches as let them befriend the players. He grew up fast and became a great HC Success.
Read some history before you print your garbage.
By Reid in EAV
December 12, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
One small comment to “pitbull” — given the bloodbath (both in terms of headcount and red ink) at print media properties like the AJC, I am all for increased circulation, readership and profits. If writing about the Dawgs and Jackets keeps a few friends out of the unemployment line, then more, please.
By UGA V
December 12, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Of course, we had to mention Croom. He’s black, you know.
By BR
December 12, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
What a stupid, ridiculous, idiotic article. What jerk writes an article about a football legend, claiming they wouldn’t “make it” as a coach by today’s standards? Does Terrence Moore really have nothing better to write about? This really is the biggest piece of crap I’ve ever read. I guess he’ll follow up with how today’s greatest coaches won’t be crap in 20 years. Who cares? Isn’t the important thing being a legend in your time (like Moore is NOT)??
By Devin
December 12, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Too bad that untalented sportswriters don’t get canned very easily because if it were based on talent and performance Terrance Moore would’ve been canned years ago.
By Scott
December 12, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Please note fact left out! When you advised Dooley won Sec Championships and Cotton Bowl Births while averaging 7 wins a year, you should also add that they only played 9 or 10 games a year back then not 11,12,13. Please compare apples tp apples.
By gdawginkalamazoo
December 12, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
AltaDawg, can imagine how many monitors Erk would have headbutted?
rickd, true. but if there had been he would have been headbutting the monitors. Or tracking down the poster and putting the hat on him.
By Forever
December 12, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
FLA DAWG,
I know Moore isn’t popular but please don’t embarrass Dawg fans with that garbage. You just helped prove his point. Dooley was afforded the opportunity to grow as a head coach. Look at Fulmer, he accomplished a lot early in his career at UT and despite winning the East just last year he’s gone for 1 bad year. Who is to say UT wouldn’t have got it together again in the next few years? The point of the article is that Dooley wasn’t canned for a down year.
Heck, look up to Penn State for the latest living example of why firing head coaches isn’t always necessary. People have been wanting to get rid of Joe Pa for years now but all of a sudden they are back on top of their conference. I know his coordinators and assistants are doing most of the work, but that’s just the point. Hiring the right staff is just as important as hiring the right head coach.
By TRDawg
December 12, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
If UGA would keep their ticket prices, donations, and coaches salary under control it would not make the alumni feel like they need to get their moneys worth
By fred
December 12, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
‘Ole Teflon Dooley?
Herschel got a nice Trans Am. Heck the whole OL did one year.
Remedial studies? Illiterate players.
He did everything he could to win…
By D'HALL STILL SUX
December 12, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Moore, you are insulting a legend and don’t have your facts correct and not even close. As someone that knows Coach Dooley personally and has shared some great memories from my Dad’s eyes/histories about the 1949-1950 Mobile,AL State Champs at McGill Institute under a then little known, Vincent Dooley and my dad and Bobby Duke You are way out of bounds to assume anythng especially when you are comparing 8-9 game seasons and 12-13 game seasons. Please get your facts correct and you could not be any more ignorant…Coach Dooley is a class act and you could not be anymore classless to print this garbage. AJC needs to fire your sorry butt! God Bless, Patrick Romano
By Bill
December 12, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
A thoughtful column - I enjoyed it.
And to ReggieATL, thanks for the smile. You complained about run-on sentences and comma splices in Terry’s writing. And yet (as often is the case) your own note was a wandering mess separated by an occasional elipsis, parenthesis and comma.
I don’t think Moore will be fired. And, as you said in your own note - and I quote - “It be such a loss.”
By Ed
December 12, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
I agreed with Terrance and often thought that Dooley wouldn’t survive 25 years in today’s coaching climate - until I looked at the record. Now I’m not so sure.
1969 and 1970 was a bad stretch: 10-10-1. But Dooley would have weathered that period today if he won 2 SEC Championships in the 3 years prior, as he did in 1966 and 1968. (Charlie Weis just survived a two-year 9-15 record at ND that’s much worse than anything Dooley endured). Take away either one of those conference titles, and Dooley probably doesn’t last into ‘71.
1972-74 was a rough stretch: 20-14-1, but the 11-1 season in 1971 would have bought Dooley more time, and the 9-3 ‘75 year would have kept him safe for at least one more year. 1976 got Dooley fully off the hot seat - the Dogs went 10-2, won the SEC, and played Pitt for the national title. That alone was probably good for 3-4 more years, then and now.
1977-79 was another rough period: 20-13-1 and Dooley’s only losing season, but he bought time when he won the SEC in ‘76 and surprised folks by winning 9 games with the ‘78 “Wonderdogs.”
There were a few so-so years in the mid-80s (22-11-3 from ‘84-‘86), but the great run from ‘80-‘83 (43-4-1, 3 SEC Championships, a national championship, 4 major bowls) made him safe for life.
Dooley seemed to have a knack for pulling out a conference championship or a 10 plus win season when he really needed one. If Tuberville or Fulmer were Dooley, they would have won at least 10 games and a conference title this year instead of slipping to 5-7. Dooley made people forget about his mediocre years because he always seemed to have at least one very memorable season in any 3-4 season period. He averaged one conference title every 4 years in the heyday of Bear Bryant. Compare that to Fulmer and Tubs, who only won a combined 3 in a combined 26 years of coaching, or about 1 every 8-9 years.
Now that I think about it, coaches were getting canned pretty regularly back in the 70s, 80s and 90s, which is as long as I’ve been following college football. Dooley himself replaced a guy in ‘64 who only got a few years. I grew up near Gainesville, Florida in the 80s and remember that Gator fans would call for a coach’s head after every subpar season. I’m not sure anything has changed at all, except for the huge increase in coaching salaries.
Dooley wasn’t Bear Bryant or Ara Parseghian great, but he was a very good coach who won enough, especially against Georgia’s biggest rivals. I think he survives 25 years as coach of UGA today.
By Captain
December 12, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Hey Fred Those 25+ yr old sour grapes should have turned to bad wine by now. And you thought it was the taste of jealousy.
Remedial studies. Federal Government mandate Fred, Board of Regents requirement. The whole Kemp lawsuit involved somewhere between 9 and 12 football players out of some 140+ students in remedial studies. As I recall, one of those who was unable to successfully complete Dev Studies and was thus dismissed from The Univ of Georgia was Tyrone Sorrells. Tyrone later enrolled at GT and played under Coach Bill Curry. Tyrone, after flunking out of UGA because he could not successfully exit Remedial studies, earned his degree from Georgia Tech. Guess it proves one thing, Remedial Studies at UGA are tougher than those Calculus courses and that rigorous academic curriculum we hear so much about at GT.
By the way Fred, Coach Dooley did win, he will always be a winner as well as a true gentleman.
By Ted
December 12, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if “fred” is right about Herschel and his O-line getting Trans Ams while playing for UGA, but if not, they should have. Those boys could play.
And if you weren’t cheating in the 80s, you weren’t keeping up. Look at SMU, Florida and Oklahoma, the poster childs for bad behavior during that era.
By Whitsports
December 12, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
You hit the nail on the head, Herschel Talker.
If Terence Moore starting writing today, I’d give him 4 weeks.
Better yet, maybe he should start writing.
By JT
December 12, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
To ‘How Long’, you obviously don’t know your demographics. To compare Starkvile to Tuscaloosa is asanine. And to compare the programs, ALABAMA has 13 national Championships, MS State has how many? Visit both campuses and then make an INFORMED comment please.
By FLA DAWG
December 12, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
By Forever, So you agree with Moore that Dooley was “born at the right time.”, huh? Now who is blogging garbage, Never?
You don’t get it - Moore takes every opportunity to criticize The Dawgs. Even when they win he’s against them. Now he uses Dooley as an example of a coach from an era where he was lucky because of the environment at the time?
I was in Jax for The Miracle On Duval Street. I was in New Orleans when we beat ND for the NC 17-10. No luck was involved. That Championship Game was one of the greatest defensively coached games in college football history.
Walker was no fluke and the OL we had in the early 80s was one of the best in the country. That is not luck. Dooley administered the ACs and got the performance and respect from his players to win. Today too many coaches want to be the players buddy. That does not breed espect. It tells the player it’s okay if you lose.
By Brooks
December 12, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
Hey Terrence, back when Dooley was coaching the money wasn’t what it is now. Not just coaching salaries but everything else. There was not internet for angry fans to voice their opinions. Not as many televised games to keep fans at home. Fans showed up to watch the Dawgs play and liked most of what they saw. You talk about Fulmer and how he was fired. He had 17 years and won 2 conference titles and a national title. Dooley had 25 and won a NC but also won 6 SEC titles which is 4 more than the “great pumpkin”. He took over a program that was down and made it relevant again. He was the face of Georgia football. Fulmer couldn’t seal the deal with conference titles and that led to his demise. SCOTT made an excellent point as well. Less games played equals less chances for “W”s. You have to look at games played and wins not just average wins a season. Overall I think the article is a waste of time. I don’t understand the motive. I think your arrogance radiates just like you buddy Jim Rome. GO DAWGS!!
By Vinnydog
December 12, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
You gotta be kidding me,Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport? Blacks are 12% of the pop but 70% of the pros, when we gonna fix that? I’ll bet moore is a member.
By reality check
December 12, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Terrence, I can’t believe it but I agree with you whole heartedly. Dooley wouldn’t last in this what have you done for me lately culture. We wouldn’t have enjoyed the national championship because the year before would have got him fired. Poor Erk would have been viewed as a maniac and let go because he was too warm and fuzzy. We live in a strange time for college football coaches. Yes the $ is enourmous and what is behind many of these decisions. I think of the Tennessee and Auburn situations and the good coaches that were forced out and wonder how are they going to duplicate Tubs and Phil? As Dawgs we should pay attention to this mob mentality and take a chill pill. Merry Christmas and thanks Terrance for some reality!
By Boris
December 12, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
FLA DAWG: Don’t expect Moore to read anything but the headlines while flying to L.A. Jim Rome should burn on himself for having such a loser on his show so often. History? Research? Original ideas? Yeah, right. Nope. His editor’s orders are more like “Take some bogus position on an incindiary topic and let the readers blog the rest.” Terance is a BAD writer, like a LOSER high school coach who never goes away.
By swampjacket
December 12, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Scott and Red Devil Dawg are total retards!!