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Home > Terence Moore > Archives > 2008 > September > 01 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.US‘It’s not Bobby Cox’s fault’
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
It’s not Bobby Cox. “No, this isn’t his fault,” said Chuck Tanner, referring to the Braves’ free fall in the National League East standings. That said, Tanner, who should know such things, suggested that this really is the reincarnation of his 1988 Braves, which isn’t good, by the way.
Those other Braves lost 106 times. The current ones are wretched, but they already have more victories than the 54 for those other Braves.
Whatever that means.
That means little if you listen to Tanner, the accomplished manager of yore, speaking over the phone from his home in New Castle, Pa. As a major league scout nowadays for the Pittsburgh Pirates, he remains close to the game. That’s why he noted a similarity between his Braves of 20 years ago and the current ones imploding in their division.
“Heck, there are games I see where they’re using four or five relievers, just like we did,” said Tanner, sounding younger than his 79 years. “In three weeks, their arms are hanging, and then your bullpen’s gone. It doesn’t matter that the right fielder [Jeff Francoeur] isn’t hitting, or you can look at the shortstop, the second baseman, the first baseman or the catcher.
“Those people can help, but when you have pitching, you have everything. We didn’t have it, and for the Braves, it’s not [manager] Bobby Cox’s fault. It’s not the pitching coach’s fault. They just don’t have Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz anymore.”
No, the Braves don’t. Instead, they have the pitching likes of Elmer Dessens, Julian Tavarez and Vladimir Nunez. That’s why the Braves began Monday’s game in Florida against the Marlins ranked 10th in the N.L. in ERA and falling. Before the All-Star break, the Braves fluctuated between first and second in the league in ERA, and not coincidentally, they were deep in the division race. That was before they lost the pitching likes of Tim Hudson, Rafael Soriano, Peter Moylan, Smoltz and Glavine for the season.
At least these Braves had all of those pitchers to lose.
“We had [everyday players] Ozzie Virgil, Gerald Perry, Ron Gant, Ken Oberkfell, Dale Murphy, Dion James, Ken Griffey Sr., some good players,” Tanner said. “But then we had Glavine just getting started, and that’s when I pitched him a lot, knowing he’d be good someday. He was 7-17. Rick Mahler was 9-16, and Pete Smith was 7-15. Zane Smith, 5-10. We had Bruce Sutter, but his arm was done. We were bringing Smoltzie along, but he was 2-7.
“We couldn’t catch the ball sometimes, but they couldn’t pitch it, either. They’d throw a fastball when it should have been a change-up or something.”
Sounds like the current Braves, with fielding issues everywhere and severe problems when it comes to swinging in the clutch. Much of this also sounds like the current Pirates, which is why Tanner, who managed Pittsburgh to a “We are Family” world championship in 1979, recently told his bosses with the Pirates, “This is not going to work until we get pitching. Go out in free agency and get a productive guy that’s been successful. I’m talking about someone who can win 12, 15 games.
“Then you bring a young guy in behind him. I know the Braves have that kid they got from the Tigers [Jair Jurrjens], and he’s a good one. But if you want a young guy like that to be your leader, well, in the long haul, it’s hard.”
The same goes for the short haul.
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By Hijo de la patria mexicana
September 1, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
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By Firetheoldfool
September 1, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
I disagree. It is primarily BC’s fault. His stupid lineup and bullpen moves are not excusable.
By Dave
September 1, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
I think Chuck Tanner is 100% correct! The Braves need some excellent pitchers.
By im4ball
September 1, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Let’s see. The manager set the line-up. The manager ultimately decides when a pitcher is pulled. The manager has a hand in deciding which pitcher is used. The manager can and should provide motivation. The manager decides how to play certain situation (bunt, steal, hit and run, etc). The manager has (or should have) a hand in how to pitch a game and/or certain players. The manager can change or call pitches.
Bobby Cox…not getting on or chastising players (at least no in public). Not being a leader and giving players some motivation….except for the tired old ploy of getting himsefl thrown out. Waiting for the big hit…instead of pushing the game. Switching pitchers just so he can set up a left/ right thing…this even when a given pitcher is doing well. Leaving pitchers in too long.
A manager has a large hand in how a team plays and if you don’t think so, why do we idolize people like Vince Lombardi?
By Clemson Carl
September 1, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Terence:
29 one run losses on the road and counting.
One World Series championship with Hall of Fame pitchers for several seasons.
Yet, the AJC writers defend Cox as if he’s a blood relative
Of course baseball people will continue to say wonderful things about Bobby.
That’s the way it is in baseball’s good old boy network when you’ve been around for a long time. Unless you go off the deep end and burn the stadium down, you’re doing a great job!
I wish we had a real paper in town with columnists and beat writers not afraid to tell it like it is.
By kirknga
September 1, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
It seems to me it’s not a guy that can win 12-15 games so much as it is one who can win 12-15 games and pitch 190-200 innings. But we also need a guy who can win 15-20 games and pitch 200 innings as well.
The question is are the Braves willing to pay for the pitching they need? They might be able to address one or two holes through trades, but if they are going to contend, they are going to have to pay some players big $$$.
By tim scott
September 1, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
TO QUOTE JERRY REED “WE GOT A LONG WAY TO AND A SHORT TIME TO GET THERE” HOLD YOUR HEAD UP WE WILL BE BACK. CHIPPER MAY BE A COACH BY TIME WE GET BACK BUT WE WILL BE BACK. SMOLTZIE WILL PROPABLY HAVE REPLACED THE GREAT AND DEEPLY MISSED SKIP CARAY BUT WE WILL BE BACK. TOMMY G WILL BE A PITCHING COACH SOMEWHERE BUT WE WILL BE BACK..SO HOLD YOUR HEAD UP AND CHEER ON THOSE BRAVOS
By NO MORE BOBBY
September 1, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
At this point - WHO CARES? The Braves have turned in to what the Hawks were to Atlanta. Go look at all the people trying to get rid of tickets on Ebay and no one is buying.
Its going to take more than a giant cow in the outfield to win some of us back to Turner Field!!
By bobby
September 1, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
The players are playing lousy baseball but it still doesn’t change the fact that BC is making bad decisions and overworking the pitchers.
By Jay
September 1, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
“Before the All-Star break, the Braves fluctuated between first and second in the league in ERA, and not coincidentally, they were deep in the division race. That was before they lost the pitching likes of Tim Hudson, Rafael Soriano, Peter Moylan, Smoltz and Glavine for the season.”
Actually we lost Moylan at the start of the season, but thanks for playing.
By bobby
September 1, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
If it’s not Bobby Cox’s fault that the Brave pitchers are overworked, whose fault is it? Two of them tied for the most appearances in the majors.
By unclepeepot
September 1, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
With all the injuries the Braves have had this season,how can it be Bobby Cox’s fault.you guys keep bashing him but lets see you get in there and work with what he has,you would losr too.the problems is the players faults not Bobby’s fault.
By Wayne
September 1, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Who really cares at this point. Management gave up with the trade of Tex and it seems that so did the team. JS left at a good time. FW has limited resources on the team and apparently in the minors. Why else would you sign pitchers that have been cut more than once or that no one else wants. The minor league pitchers must not be very good.
By mark
September 1, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
I thought that a smart manager was able to overcome some of this mess I mean it is sad where Braves go and get releif pitching I mean its like they dig them up and put them into a game///how rude it is to the season ticket holder that your money is spent in mecico to find pichers no one else wants..I have never seen anything like itAnd Poor ole Jeff the beat(ing) just goes on and on..Come on Jeff wakje up Dude..whar r u doing to your career..God Maybe you will be back next seasonm hitting properly..the whole team is in a funk..Bobby Who?????
By Coach (Skip will be missed)
September 1, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Lets see, it’s not Bobby’s fault that the Braves traded Joey Devine (0.80 ERA) for Kotsay. Then turned around and traded Mark Kotsay for what’s his name?
It’s not Bobby’s fault that the Braves called up Chuck James not ONCE but TWICE (9.10 ERA).
It’s not Bobby’s fault that he elected to go with Gregor Blanco over Josh Anderson and then failed to put Blanco in the lead off hole where he belonged until 77 games into the season. Meanwhile, down in Richmond. Anderson proceeded to hit .314 while stealing 42 out of 49 bases.
It’s not Bobby’s fault that Jeff Bennett has been completely misused and abused. Bennett belongs in the rotation, not in the bullpen.
It’s not Bobby’s fault that the bullpen is about to top 500 innings for the third season in a row. That happened once in the fifteen years that Leo Mazzone managed the pitching. Is it just happenstance that Leo left after 2005 and the bullpen has been abused ever since?
It’s not Bobby’s fault that the Braves traded Tyler Yates while Manny Acosta has an option remaining.
It’s not Bobby’s fault that he stuck with Corky Miller (0.93 BA)
It’s not Bobby’s fault that he has stubbornly kept Jeff Francoeur in RF even though the young outfielder has been virtually an automatic out all season.
You know, I could go on and on and on. But the fact of the matter is Mr.Moore, you sir, haven’t ONE DAMN F-N CLUE.
By Firetheoldfool
September 1, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Im4ball You are right on. These AJC losers will continue to evade the obvious that BC needs to go. Do you think New York City papers would stand for the mismanagement of Bobby Cox? Not for one minute.
By TheCutMan
September 1, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
OK,
I get it. It’s not Bobby Cox’s fault. Someone though, needs to be held accountable
In sports, business, politics or any other field of endeavor you care to name, (including sports journalism), you either get it done, or you don’t.
I think the issue of accountability, or lack thereof, streaming all the way down from the top is the real issue that has to change before the Braves can turn this around.
Unless or until (take your choice), this is done, we’ll have a continued business as usual mindset. Over and out.
By spotts
September 1, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
How can you say the lack of hitting isn’t the coaches’ fault? When the middle of your lineup consists (consisted) of Chipper, Teixeira, and McCann, and you’re not driving in runs over an extended period of time, you have to blame the coaching staff.
By coachk
September 1, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
I Have been screaming to get rid of Cox since 96!!!!There is no Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine to bail out his poor mgmt style, He coddles instead of laying lumber, no small ball, how do you go 0-29 in 1 run road losses, you can’t even try and do this ridiculous feat. ! championship with that pitching staff was unacceptable. Now I have to look at this no heart, no passion and no idea on how to win team, it is now time for a change or else same sh^^ next yr.
By Goaltender
September 1, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
These last couple of months are ripping my heart out. What a year to have the MLB package! Thirteen months since a one run road win - unbelievable! And as a big fan of B.C. for a lot of years, it is time Bobby to ride off into the sunset.The blame should be shouldered my MANY but the most falls on you sir.We need a change.
By gayle
September 1, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
While it is true that the Braves have endured an abnormal volume of injuries to the rotation this year, what can you expect when your opening day rotation includes two 40 year-olds and a reclamation project from Dr. Andrews who hadn’t pitched in nearly 3 years?
Did anyone honestly believe that this rotation could hold up through an entire season?
And when the geezers and youngsters faltered, they left the bullpen with 4, 5 and 6 inning stints to cover. It was no surprise that it soon broke down and now has resorted to a retread from the Mexican league to eat up innings.
And while TM likes to promote a provacative topic to generate interest in this blog, it is nonsense to imagine that Bobby - the man he claims is not at fault - had NOTHING to do with the creation of this staff - both starting and bullpen.
And it is equally silly to think that Bobby had nothing to do with running the bullpen ragged to the point where the next addition will be Ricky Vaughan from the California Penal League.
Another foolish thought is Francoeur’s 3-day rehabilitation in Mississippi. I wish that one of the AJC hacks would get to the bottom of that fiasco. I think they would find that Bobby overruled those above him and brought Francoeur back. The tutelage had a remarkable impact. “The Natural” was hitting .230 before his rehab and is hitting .230 since.
But that is just this year. Again, TM seems to think that the Braves were just fine before this year. I disagree.
The Braves are now 18 games under .500 since the beginning of the 2006 season - that is almost three complete seasons of sub .500 baseball.
TM, whose fault was it last year? Whose fault was it in 2006?
Whose fault is it that this team has not won a playoff series since 2001?
Whose fault is it that this team is 0-7 in World Series games since the fateful 4th game of the ‘96 Series?
And whose fault is it that a team with three bona-fide Hall of Famers in the rotation have managed but one Championship with 14 Division titles?
The only common denominator in all those years is Bobby Cox.
So until someone in this town has the nerve to knock BC off his altar, Mark Bradley’s prediction of many dark summers in the future will surely come to pass.
By Algonquin J. Calhoun
September 1, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
Booby Cox should be fired! As a matter of fact, he should never have been re-hired. The team won division after division championship but only won a single World Series. What a monumental waste of resources. Send him packing! The Braves are twenty games under five hundred and going through the floorboards of the division. It’s time to start completely over and you can’t do that with this enfeebled wastub bumpkin running the team. Fire Booby and Wren and prepare for a ten year wait to get back to respectability. I may be a little over-optimistic.
By Mike
September 1, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
I can blame Bobby for putting Elmer Dessens in twice and letting him blow each game. However,I cannot blame Bobby for signing a has been. In reality, the way the Braves have been playing, no matter what anyone does, they will find a way to lose. They have a losing mentality. They need a new pitching coach and a new hitting coach. It is time to turn this team inside out.
By inglenook
September 1, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
How about blaming McGuirk and all his platitudes, but no action? The guy seems like a robot who just repeats the same crap over and over. No passion, no insight and a blank look all the time. Schuerholz was a leader and decision maker, now we’re stuck with a corporate dweeb in McGuirk, a failed and failing GM in Wren, and an aging manager who deserves better. But they keep raising ticket prices—how does that work?
By Dan
September 1, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
Firetheoldfool- ask any MLB player who they would like to play for? Have you ever played? Bobby is one of the best managers in baseball.
By Philliesuk
September 1, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Everyone is accountable. Cox, the coaches, the players, the GM, and the owners.
Awhile ago DOB berated me because I said that the trade to acquire Teixeira was one of the worst in recent Braves history. He countered that the players we lost ‘aren’t that good yet,’ so how could I say that it was a bad trade? Actually, they are good. Andrus is doing great, with a .296 BA and 53 SB. Salty is not doing great, but he still has potential. Harrison is looking good as well. Face it; that trade turned out to be terrible. I would trade Kotchman one-to-one for Elvis Andrus.
At the time, I was happy we picked up Tex, but in retrospect, it was a disaster. Personally, I don’t think this organization should trade for top-notch players unless the owners show enough sack to actually pay the big money to keep them.
We just can’t trade the farm if we aren’t willing to spend some money. It’s that simple.
By Matt
September 1, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
It’s not Bobby’s fault at all. For all of you uneducated baseball fans, when you lose 6 key pitchers and 1 coming back in August after 3 years on the DL, your not going to have a great year by any means. Ask any manager if you think he’s going to win a divison with half of his pitchers out for the year. It’s pretty tough to win with a bunch of Washup-AA pitchers.
By BravesFan79
September 1, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
Im a Bobby fan myself…and it hurts to see everyone jump on the man like this that did so much for this organization.
But it all started going downhill the night before that game 5 against Houston. They pitched Oswalt, or maybe it was Clemens…and Bobby choose Mike (NOT A BIG GAME PITCHER) Hampton. He refused to go against the norm and pull Smoltz out of the pen (smoltz wanted that start!) And because of that, the game was over by the 5th inning.
Of COURSE in a BRILLANT move Cox brings in Smoltz in the 5th or 6th for damage control…. AFTER THE GAME WAS A BLOWOUT!!
That to me…was the start of the end for Cox.
By dICK
September 1, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
May Cklox and his favorite son Francour leave town on the same bus. If I were a manager, Jeff would have finished season in AA. With Anderson comimg along Jeffrey had better start sweating. Cix didn’t win a championship, he backed into it. So ole Leo was worth a lot more then they paid him, wasn’t he?
By A High Hard One
September 1, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
The Braves need a new owner. Plain and simple.
By gmk
September 1, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
BC was a good baseball man, but the game has passed him by. He needs to retire to his farm.
By LOST-BRAVE
September 1, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
HEY,TM. DO YOU NOT HAVE TIME TO GO TO THE BRAVES GAMES?YOUR ON JIM ROME IS BURNING SO MUCH I REALLY DO’NT BELIVE YOU HAVE BEEN TO A GAME!HELL YES THIS IS AT LEAST 80% OF BOBBY COX’S FAULT.HE HAS NO IDEA ON HOW TO EVEN START TO USE ANY PITCHER IN THE MAJOR’S. HE COULD HAVE AND SHOULD HAVE FOUGHT FOR LEO, BUT HIS EGO WAS/IS STILL TO BIG FOR HIM TO HAVE TO SHARE ANY CREDIT FOR WINNING BUT 100% SHARE NO BLAME IN LOSING.ALSO HE HAS A BIG SAY IN WHO THEBRAVES HAVE AS PLAYER’S,COACHES. HE IS 100% RESPONCIBLE FOR MIS-MANAGING NOT ONLY SPRING TRANING BUT THE WHOLE SEASON.IF HIS BUTT WAS IN N.Y. OR ST. LOUIS OR BOSTON,OR EVEN CHI TOWN, WHEN THE PRESS GOT THROUGH RIPPING HIM, AND HIS ABILITY TO TOTALY MIS-MANAGE A TEAM, THE FANS WOULD REALLY HAVE RUN HIS BUTT OUT OF TOWN ON A BIG RAIL ABOUT 12 YEARS AGO. AS A SEASON TICKET HOLDER, FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS I MIGHT AS WELL DO WHAT I DID IN THE LATE 70’S AND ALL OF THE 80’S, BUY THE CHEAP TICKET PACKAGE AND THEN ON THE GAME I GO TO JUST TO PARTY AND HAVE A GOOD TIME WITH ABOUT 800 TO 1000 OF MY OTHER DIE-HARD BROTHERS AND SISTERS,OF THE BRAVES NATION MOVE DOWN TO THE REALLY GOOD SEAT’S. FOR THE REST OF THIS SEASON WHY THE HELL DO’NT THE BRAVES BRING UP ONE OF THEIR WHOLE MINOR-LEAUGE TEAM’S. AND COACHING STAFF’S, MIGHT JUST BE FUN TO GO TO THE DAMN GAMES UNTIL THE END OF THIS SORRY SEASON.
By TerrenceSux
September 1, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
You are right Terrence…it isn’t Bobby’s fault….I blame your negative, lousy, no talent writing for the Braves downfall.
By gayle
September 1, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
Matt it’s not just this year. Have you not acknowledged the past 7 years?
By macmarine
September 1, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
BOBBY COX has never been able to handle pitchers. With all the cy young players we had you would think there would be more than one championship.. No small ball, loyalty will only take you so far.I wanted BC gone many many years ago. He is responsible far more than most people realize, a manager can be the reason for so many decisions on the field..MOST OVERRATED MANAGER IN BASEBALL. ATTITUDE STARTS WITH THE MANAGER, THERE IS NO DESIRE FROM THE PLAYERS, NO EMOTION EXCEPT MAYBE MCCANN. TIME FOR BOBBY COX TO GO TO THE FARM AND RIDE THE GRANDKIDS ON THE TRACTOR!!!!!
By gary
September 1, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
I agree, it’s not totally Cox’s fault. He’s an at best average manager. With excellent players, the Braves did well. Against evenly matched teams (like in the playoffs) they have a losing record). Now without those better players, all we’re seeing is an average manager getting worse than average results. Cox simply is not a great manager, and without great players, all we see are some pretty average results.
By season ticket holder since 1982
September 1, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
Sorry, T. ANYONE can win with Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine. This is the REAL Bobby Cox you’tr seeing NOW! firebobbycox.com!
By gary
September 1, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
When the Braves had young Cy Young pitchers and excellent hitters, everyone were falling all over themselves singing the praises of Bobby Cox. Now that the Braves are in the dumper…. it’s not his fault. Maybe he’s just an average manager who was lucky enough to having some really good teams for awhile. We’ve seen his poor post-season record, his poor one-run games record; he is just not a great manager.
By Michael
September 1, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
FIRE BOBBY COX
By raymond
September 1, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
OK maybe this year is not all Cox’s fault, but what about all the other years they should have won a World Series. He is past his time and does not know how to get the most out of his players like a LaRussa or Leyland.
By bravesfan
September 1, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
If you are going to dare try to give Cox credit for the Braves success for 14 straight years, but you better darn well give him blame for this train wreck of a team. Not only are they still lost at the plate, and their pitching staff is weak at best, they also can’t field or throw. Bottom line is this is a miserable team with no fire.
Pendleton must go
By Robert
September 1, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this
What a spin job.
First of all, the Braves nation has made a career of maligning Chuck Tanner (pointing out how much better Cox is than Tanner was).
Of course, all that goes out the window when Tanner SEEMINGLY says something good about Cox. Now suddenly Tanner is an authority whose opinion we dare not question
But notice I said that Tanner SEEMINGLY said something good about Cox - Look CLOSELY at what he said
”” They just don�t have Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz anymore.”“
Moore wants us to think that Tanner is saying that the bad stuff isnt Cox’s fault.
Tanner is being very politically correct, but if you read between the lines, you notice that what he is really saying
“� They just don�t have Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz anymore.�
is that the good stuff, the success, wasnt Cox but rather Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz
Tanner is being politically correct. You gotta know where to look and be willing to read the subtle message to get it
Of course, to the spin doctors and Cox apologists, they just take it on the surface and proclaim that Tanner has come out in support of Cox
Moore - you’re an apologist of the first order and a major league spin doctor
By ElecTech
September 1, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
As someone mentioned on another blog, even Vince Lombardi couldn’t win with bad players (the Redskins). TM, you are right. This isn’t Bobby Cox’s fault. You must have a little more than scraps to win games. We have no legitimate starting pitchers and no quality outfielders. That’s a pretty big obstacle to overcome for someone who doesn’t play (the manager).
By Robert
September 1, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
“He is past his time and does not know how to get the most out of his players like a LaRussa or Leyland.”
I’m a Leyland fan - but Leyland has not excelled this year. What you just did is gave the Cox apologists something to harp on - worrying about Leyland rather than solving our problems and leaving Detroit to theirs
What I like about Leyland tho, even in his poorer years, is that he takes blame. He has come out several times this year and saisd the blame starts with him for the Tigers dismal year
And the Tigers have been dismal, and they could use a thousand excuses before pickin on Leyland - but Leyland doesnt do that- it starts with him and he admits it
I have never ever seen or heard Cox take blame for anything. One time the man would bray out for all the world to hear “I was a donkey and we lost that game because of it” I might come to have an iota of respect for him
7-28 in one run games. Far and away the worst record in baseball. If you think that doesnt reflect on the manager, all you are doing is fooling yourself
By Robert
September 1, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
“As someone mentioned on another blog, even Vince Lombardi couldn�t win with bad players (the Redskins). TM, you are right. This isn�t Bobby Cox�s fault. You must have a little more than scraps to win games. We have no legitimate starting pitchers and no quality outfielders. That�s a pretty big obstacle to overcome for someone who doesn�t play (the manager).”
So why the double standard? If the bad cant be blamed on Cox then why attribute the good to him?
By Matt
September 1, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
Gayle - Of course I’ve noticed the last 7 years, actually the last 16. You can’t blame Bobby for the lack of production from key players in the playoffs (JD Drew, Maddux, Andruw Jones, Sheffield..you get the drift I hope) They have monster years but fail to carry it over into post season. Bobby can’t play for them. It’s also impossible to keep a great team year after year when you have top notch players leaving every year. I shouldn’t have to name all of the studs we’ve lost to the market.
By Chris
September 1, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Fair enough. But can I still blame him for all the stupid managerial decision he made in the playoffs over the years and the listless, lifeless phone-it-in performances his crappy ‘player’s manager’ style inspired in the group of crybabies and excuse makers the Braves have been almost every year except 1995?
By Larry
September 1, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
You guys are such suckers!
The AJC knows that Terence has a double digit IQ but they keep him employed to continue to write absolutely stupid blogs like this knowing they will generate interest by getting everyone to respond to an idiot!
Haven’t you guys every heard Terence babble incoherently on a Bill Hartman interview? Do you really think this guy can employ proper grammar, diction and syntax by himself?
He can’t even speak proper English!
Whew!
By Firetheoldfool
September 1, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this
Dan. I could take the field and do a better job than BC. The old fool needs to go. He should have been fired years ago.
By alan from Atlanta GA.
September 1, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
It’s time to have a real shakeup in the braves organization. The GM, mgr. especially the pitching and hitting coaches should all go. JS should be fired also. The past 3 yrs. have been a shambles for the braves. Look at the Mets earlier in the season when the mgr was fired. Brian Cashman GM of the Yankees is pretty shaky too. In this town the braves promote and it’s like one big family. B—-S—T, BOYCOTT THE BRAVES, until they put together a team that deserves our hard earned money. We work for our money, what the hell is braves magmt and some of the players doing to deserve their salaries. Who’s responsible for the pitchers, McDowell! Who’s responsible for the hitting Terry Pendleton! Who is responsible for the team Bobby Cox! Finally who’s responsible overall Frank wrenn! We need to star over, three yrs. of this S—T is enough.
By Robert
September 1, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this
From another blog
“Corky Miller is coming back to give Bobby Cox a third catcher and because Cox made a promise to him when they designated him. “
WTF is Cox doing making promises to a guy who cant hit half his weight?
By REAL FAN
September 1, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
How many of you out of towners have managed above the T-Ball level? I always hear from people how Leyland and LaRussa would have done a better job with the braves since 1991. Larussa has 2 WS titles, Leyland 1.
BC won 14 straight division titles. When is the last time Chicago, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, San Diego, San Francisco(with Bonds), Cincinnati, and many others won 2 straight division titles?
If you want NY, Chicago, or Boston type sportswriters covering the team, Delta flies there nonstop.
By ben
September 1, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
I can’t agree on this one. Cox does well when he has equal talent, but is just not a fundamental coach when he has less talent. You give this team to many managers in the majors and they would do a better job. Success was given to Cox when he won, now he must shoulder some of the blame for the failure.
By bag blogs
September 1, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
noticed on your latest article on the bulldawgs only drew 18 comments…the ajc will soon notice that your past racist articles are causing serious sports readers to realize you are not worth reading mr. moore…cox is past his prime and won one world series in 14 trips to the post season…he has always had a hand in on making trade decisions and he has no decent pitching or hitting coach….a must for a good skipper… write with some common sense..bobby’s time is past….even if the player’s are terrible..which they are save chipper….hire another manager…pay him even less….and become a small market team in a big market…i enjoyed paying four dollars to sit in the outfield and eat popcorn back in the 70’s..i could care less if the braves were good baseball games are always fun
By Terence Moore
September 1, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
ElecTech,
You’re exactly right. Vince Lombardi became a legend, because of his talent. The same was the case for Casey Stengel, Red Auerbach, Bobby Knight, Bear Bryant, Bill Walsh, etc.
Bobby Cox doesn’t have the talent right now. Period. As a result, Bobby Cox isn’t going to win many games — no matter what kind of strategy he uses.
It’s even worse for Cox since he doesn’t have pitching.
By Keith Warren
September 1, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
I get sick of this garbage. Whenever the Braves were winning division title year in and year out, Cox kept getting the credit for being a Hall of Fame manager.
But when the Braves came up short in the playoffs, then it was “not Bobby’s fault. After all, he can’t hit and catch for the Braves.”
The one good thing about the Braves being this bad is it exposes the myth of Bobby Cox.
Bobby Cox, the most overrated manager in the history of the game.
By Keith Warren
September 1, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
Hey Larry, you mentioned Terrence being interviewed by Bill Hartman.
Have you ever seen Terrence on “Rome is Burning”??
Terrence is the only man alive on this planet who actually makes Jime Rome look smart.
By Robert
September 1, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
“BC won 14 straight division titles.”
When your rotation leads off with three lock first ballot HOFers for a decade straight, you shouldnt be giving an f&&& about DIVISION TITLES
Bobby Cox’s specialty is turning World Series rings into f-in division titles
By Robert
September 1, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
“Cox does well when he has equal talent”
BULL! - When the talent is equal, or even NEAR equal, Cox gets his stupid donkey behind handed to him
Cox does well when he has Maddux Glavine and Smoltz and the opposition has AA talent
By Treadkiller
September 1, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Matt; For us uneducated baseball fans, who’s respnsible for slecting the players on the field? Does a manager have any say on who’s aquired? Example: Frank Wren: “Hey Bobby, I’m thinking of signing Tom Glavin”! Bobby: “Frank, thats a great idea”!
Here should have been the real response: Frank Wren: “Hey Bobby, I’m thinking of signing Tom Glavin”! Bobby: “Frank, That’s not a good idea. Tommy is 42 years old and he ran out of gas last season”! I think we should go after a younger arm like Tim Lincecom in SF. SF is shopping him and Matt Cain. Besides with a rotation of John, Tom, Mike we would have one of the oldest rotations in the league! So who is responsible?
By red sox and yanks
September 1, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
great players and good management combined win the world series more than onc and create a solid fan base…atlanta didn’t sell out the games when they were good…now maybe the true fans will stay faithful
By Robert
September 1, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
When Cox has HOFers, then the credit goes to him. But now that the roster is depleted, here comes the excuse
“Bobby Cox doesn�t have the talent right now. Period. As a result, Bobby Cox isn�t going to win many games � no matter what kind of strategy he uses”
Let’s cut thru this Cox apologist rubbish
Take any roster of your choosing - That roster will be good enough to win “X” number of games
If Bobby Cox manages that roster, then the most they will win is “X-10”
If a team is good enough to win WS rings, then if Cox manages that team, they’ll be Division Champions
If the team is good enough to be a division champion, then if Cox manages that team, they’ll fibnish about .500
If the team is good enough to finish about .500, then if Cox manages that team, well, we get this year’s results
GET IT? Take your spun apologies out the door Moore.
The Cox myth is BUSTED.
By Robert
September 1, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
Rumor has it Bobby Cox is the subject of an upcoming episode of the Discovery Channel’s “Mythbusters” series
By c robinson
September 1, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
Not Bobby’s fault then who is accountable. Guess like everything else no one.
By Stew
September 1, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
Putting slow baller Gregg McMichael in a World series game should have been his last act as a Braves manager and we would have won many more World Series titles. Fire Cox now!
By BravesDone
September 1, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Baseball is still playing? Wow. I thought they ended the season a few weeks after the All-Star game.
Oh well…bring on the SEC football.
By ElecTech
September 1, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
You’re right c robinson, it’s not Bobby’s fault. Lonnie Smith cost the Braves a championship in 1991 and Mark Wohlers threw “the pitch” in 1996. And remember the strike zone Livan Hernandez got from Eric Gregg in 1997? Charlie Liebrandt didn’t help a lot in Game 6 of the 91 WS, either, although Puckett should get more credit than Charlie does blame. How are any of those things Bobby’s fault.
Winning a World Series takes a tremendous amount of good fortune (and money, nowadays). To be so close in ‘91 and ‘96, you can’t possibly blame Bobby for losing those two. And the Marlins series in 97 was just a joke! It took Tony LaRussa nearly 30 years to get his second WS title. Other than Joe Torre and Terry Francona with their unlimited budgets, who was the last manager to win two WS in less than 20 years? (Hint: Tom Kelly)
By derek
September 1, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
Yea we pretty much fell apart when we got rid of Tex! I dont care i think we need to resign him at what ever price. Who else are we going to get to protect Chipper? I dont see alot of other guys out thereas dangerous as him. Kotchman stinks, and if we dont do something in the offseason like signing some big names I am going to find a new team to root for cuz its not even worth getting upset at thinking why dont they do this or sing these guys… I m dead serious Im about to give up on them!! Cus they wont grow some stones and spend some money.. but oh well.
By Flustered Fan
September 1, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
Get rid of Cox. The Braves should emancipate themselves from Liberty Media. If the higher ups really wanted this team to be a contender, they would have made it happen. Let’s go on a campaign(sp) to keep Turner Field empty. Maybe that’ll get the attention of these passionless players and the big brass.
By derek
September 1, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
I agree with alan…Im tired of not making the playoffs! WE have no pitching or anything SIGN somone good grief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im getting sick and tired of these home grown Highschool players..
By ElecTech
September 1, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this
“So why the double standard? If the bad cant be blamed on Cox then why attribute the good to him?”
Because, while you can’t win with bad players, you can certainly lose with good players (see Yankees and Tigers this year; Mets last year). Bobby won repeatedly when he had good players, and he even won in 2005 with a bunch of mediocre players. This year, he’s got nothing!
By JRB
September 1, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
Look on the bright side - the worse the team gets, the fewer fans will show. If this become an unprofitable venture - maybe the Braves will be put back on the market and someone who cares will buy them.
Management needs to be hit where it hurts - in the wallet. It’s the only signal they will understand. I am tired of hearing how bad the fans are in Atlanta when year after year ownership and management don’t even try to field a decent team. This year’s starting pitching rotation was a joke - two 40+ year-olds and an overpriced cry baby with a glass arm.
Bringing Glavine back to Atlanta was a joke. The millions spent on this has-been could have been used for real talent.
Atlanta needs to stop trying to be the feel-good little league team with the quaint old manager and passed their prime starters. The field of dreams is a nightmare. Get rid of Bobby, Glavine, Roger (watch me injure yet another pitcher) McDowell and the rest of the jokers ruining this team.
We need a team with heart - and the drive starts with management. Bobby needs to go.