Hawks

By Daniel

February 6, 2009 12:46 PM | Link to this

Take your time getting better Joe! The Hawks should be able to handle the Clippers and Bobcats without you. Heck, take off All-Star weekend for that matter. We need you rested and raring to go after the break. Message to Josh: Relax man, you are killing it on the floor. Those free throws will come. You are over thinking them. Acie- everyone has been calling for you, now is your chance. You must be aggressive with your minutes. and finally… Speedy(Craig) please just retire, we really need the cap space.

By Lacsho

February 6, 2009 12:46 PM | Link to this

This guy really needs the rest. We only have two games next week, so this team should be able to handle the load. That west coast trip is going to be very tough, and we know Woody is going to O/D on his minutes once he returns.

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 12:55 PM | Link to this

Great news. I kinda liked the way the guys played without him. If they can pull out a win on the road, and prove to Woody that he can actually trust them to get it done, maybe we wont see so many Iso-JJ’s when Joe comes back. This would only build more confidence in the young guys.

By Dan

February 6, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this

I hate to add fuel to the fire Woodson cries, but isn’t this part his fault? Joe does not have to play 40 + minutes every night.

Hope he sits through the break. He needs the rest. Woodson can get back to running him into the ground once the All Star Weekend is over.

Daniel

Speedy does not count against the Hawks cap.

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 1:13 PM | Link to this

Get your rest JJ. Woody has already cut 2 or 3 years from your career. You better get it while you can. Seriously!

By Sekou K. Smith

February 6, 2009 1:13 PM | Link to this

Just got a call from a good friend who insists that the Suns are SERIOUS about moving Amare (I’m stunned) this season and that the Hawks, with their young trade chips, would be an ideal partner.

This is a conversation revisited from draft night a couple years back, when a deal for Stoudemire was rumored to be on the table only to be tabled later (had the Hawks pulled that trigger they wouldn’t have Al Horford right now).

While I wasn’t sure how crazy the trade season might be a few weeks ago, it appears now that things could get wild by Feb. 19.

Where the Hawks fit in the scheme of all this remains to be seen. I don’t see them doing anything nutty with the position they’re in (despite all the hand wringing that’s gone one by me and others, they remain entrenched in the No. 4 slot in the Eastern Conference playoff race).

By Mike is back

February 6, 2009 1:23 PM | Link to this

I agree, Joe you are a warrior and we lova for that, but this appears to be impeccable timing, we’re at point in the schedule where you can actually get some rest. Sit back relax and let the young guys carry the load for a while.  Tell Bibby, he could use some rest tooooooooooooooooo!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Sterling Platinum

February 6, 2009 1:24 PM | Link to this

One guy above said that Speedy doesn’t count against the cap. Is that true? If we do trade for Amare, we would almost have to let Bibby go as he would be the expiring contract the Suns want and either Horford or Marvin (most likely Horford).

Like I said in the previous blog, I am not totally against letting J-Smoove go. I think Amare is an obvious upgrade and only if we can keep Horford. I like a Horford-Stoudamire frontcourt. And you stay young, however, gain more experience. With Bibby gone, it forces Woody to play Acie. I think he can handle it.

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 1:27 PM | Link to this

We better not give up Horford or Smith. Thats all I know. If we do, I’ll be p**. Especially Horford. It better be a deal involving Marvin and some expirings, which would probably include Bibby, and both of our draft picks. Thats what Phoenix is asking for. But with Josh at the 4 and Al at the 5, where would he play? Who’s the odd man out, that would come off the bench? Now if Josh could play the 3, it would be a no brainer. And they’d have to include a pg in the deal. O.K. here it is. Marvin, Bibby, Speedy, and our 09 picks for Amare and Barbosa. What yall think?

By Lacsho

February 6, 2009 1:28 PM | Link to this

CP I agree know one has stated Acie was a superstar, but I know he’s not a bust. After watching Rondo last night, I think Law could do just as good if not better. However, Acie must be more assertive once he gets into the game. He cannot be passive, he has to be a difference maker.

Moreover, Woody has to give this guy a chance to make mistakes. This summer he played great, and he played pretty good before he got injured last year. So I want to know what gives. Looking from the outside, it seems like there maybe something personal between Acie and Woody. I think Acie may have shown a little attitude b/c he’s not getting any playing time, and we know Woody is old school, so he’s not going to play that attitude game. However, times have change, and Woody needs to get with the program.

Some people say this team is mediocre and their only a 8th seed team. I disagree I think we have what it takes to be a very good team. I’ve played sports all my life. You can have the most athletic team in the world,however if the coach is horrible the team will never meet or exceed expectations.

Furthermore, you can take a average team with a great coach, and exceed expectations easily. I’ve seen this numerous times. A good coach stresses consistency, instills confidence, creates a atmosphere that’s conducive to learning, and lets his/her team know you’re only as strong as your weakest link. there’s a lot more, but I think everyone gets the point

Peace Hawks Fam

By doc

February 6, 2009 1:43 PM | Link to this

ok i will emphaticallly repeat what i siad yesterday:

amare is not the guy i want on this team no matter the trade:

With O’Neal clogging the middle, Stoudemire has expressed frustration with a diminished offensive role. Stoudemire still flusters his GM and coach because of an unwillingness to commit to anything but scoring. Stoudemire’s scoring and rebounding averages have dropped this season, and he recently told Yahoo! Sports that he was struggling with an offense that features fewer pick-and-rolls for him, fewer touches in the low post.

“It is harder,” Stoudemire said. “When you’re in the flow, everything flows. When you’re not, sometimes it’s hard to get involved.”

he is not the guy for this market or any team that truly wants to get a championship. do you think woody has an offense to keep him happy one that emphasizes rebounding and defense?

BA i got to acknowledge my bud samuel and throw him a mississippi bone occasionally on the trade talk and agree. also, it is long term. look at the way these guys play without jj which they will probably do after next year. i would prefer to keep marvin and horford long term which could be done if you had a point guard already signed that was credible to go with a long term signee. yes, i agree he comes with a tarnished shine so i would use due diligence before pulling the trigger.

what i dont want is to lose marvin prematurely because of a lack of funds this summer. maybe the economy and ownership situation will keep him here, it is to be determined down the road. that trade is suggested to also add longer term strength to our big bench if turiaf comes in the trade. that trade allows you to build on a young point and a young three, four and five meaning they would really solidify and grow together. if jj doesnt think this team is going to go all the way he is traded next year anyway especially if there is doubt in him signing long term. find a big two with some game you got a great nucleus for the future.

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 1:48 PM | Link to this

Marvin is avg. 17 points 8.5 rebounds since his concussion. Wtf?? He shoulda bumped his head a long time ago. lol!

By Vol4ever

February 6, 2009 1:50 PM | Link to this

Smith, Law and Speedy for Stoudemire in a heart beat. That leaves Stoudemire, Horf, and Marvin up front - Wow!

By supaATL

February 6, 2009 1:56 PM | Link to this

We can’t take the Bobcats too lightly. They’re kind of like the Hawks of 1-2 years ago. They’ll light it up when they want to play.

Going to the game tonight with some Bobcats fans. I’ve been talking up the Hawks all week. Don’t let me down fellas!

By Daniel

February 6, 2009 2:01 PM | Link to this

two questions: How does Craig’s contract not count against the cap? I mean in terms of trade vs. luxury tax? Do we really want Amare, when his own team, coach, gm and phoenix fans are so willing to get rid of him? I know he is talented but….

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 2:06 PM | Link to this

Vol4ever. Are you serious? The deal would have to include Smith, Bibby, another expiring and both of our draft picks. You still wanna deal?

By Mike is back

February 6, 2009 2:06 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I love Stoudemire, but after the debacle at Philly with Elton Brand, I would be very leery about making that trade.  It depends on the cost.  

I know guys are going to scoff at me for passing on Stoudemire, but with the Hawks are in 4th place, does bring Stoudemire get you a Championship ring this year, no, you will need some more pieces.  So if going to gut the team of talent, then I would pass on that trade.  

The knock on Stoudemire has always been his defensive play in the post. I can see him and Woody butting heads right know.

By Ariose

February 6, 2009 2:08 PM | Link to this

I’m sure Pheonix Would LOVE to steal J-Smoove Away from us, but itaint gonna happen. They are both the same size(Undersized PF’s) josh plays better defense and doesnt cry to the media(We have real professionals around here). After

………..Besides, Jose is making about 10 Mill this season, which makes him a base year compensation player…….baisically it’s almost impossible to pull of tat type of trade. Like I said, we don’t need the guy anyway…….now Chris Bosh? I’d trade for him in a heartbeat.

By Ariose

February 6, 2009 2:15 PM | Link to this

That’s Right Obama Beat em’ over the head with it!!!!

~Sir Links A Lot~

By italics check

February 6, 2009 2:17 PM | Link to this

doc

Amen on Amare

By supaATL

February 6, 2009 2:18 PM | Link to this

Bad trade. Amare is a good player, but with what we’d have to give up, I don’t think it’ll make us any better. And Amare is not exactly the type of veteran role model our younger players need. I think it would hurt our chemistry. We need someone who would bust this team’s chops every night…not complain about not getting enough touches.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 2:19 PM | Link to this

so Hollinger was right..? pull the trigger Ricky… pull it now dammit…. Joe and Josh untouchable… we need his paint production and ability to draw fouls against opposing bigs…

PULL THE TRIGGER!!!

By Ken Strickland

February 6, 2009 2:20 PM | Link to this

The idea of having Stoudemire on our frontline is intriguing. With him replacing Smoove at PF, we’d lose very little rebounding and DEF, and we’d gain the OFF post player we’re lacking, as well as better FT and outside shooting. Teams couldn’t double both he and JJ. I believe he’d be a great addition as long as we didn’t have to give up too much to get him. I’d give up Smoove, Speedy’s, and maybe Solo’s expiring contracts, and a pick for him, but no more. We’re going to lose Solo anyway, if Woodson remains the HC. Amare would fit in perfectly with Woodson’s pick and roll OFF. His inside scoring ability would give us a scoring option other than pick and roll, isolation and the 3pt shot.

A big 3 of JJ, Bibby and Amare, with Marvin and Horford as the 4th and 5th options, would be a handfull for any DEF. The loss of Solo would be made up by the fact Amare can effectively play both C and PF.

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 2:21 PM | Link to this

Only if it’s Marvin, draft picks and some expirings they want. That’s it. And like I said earlier, they have to include Barbosa.. Take it or leave it!!! We can replace Marvin. Smith and Horford cant be replaced.

By Ariose

February 6, 2009 2:21 PM | Link to this

Some of you were skeptical in the offseason……IN YOUR FACES!!!! NOW YOU KNOW!!!!!

Also, I think Mark Price has really helped out his shooting…..

~Sir Links A Lot~

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 2:22 PM | Link to this

so Hollinger was right…. pull the trigger Ricky… pull it now dammit… Joe and Josh untouchable… we need his paint production and ability to draw fouls on opponents bigs…

PULL THE TRIGGER…!!!

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 2:26 PM | Link to this

New Hawks roster:Barbosa, JJ, Smoove, Stoudemire, Horford. Suns roster: Nash, Richardson, Marvin, Lopez, Oneal.

By Ariose

February 6, 2009 2:31 PM | Link to this

Shoot, After Josh Smith Dunked Steve Nash into the ground, I’d want to trade for Smoove too……..it aint’ gonna happen though.

Even if we only gave up Marvin, Smooove isn’t a Pure SF(His J is not up to par)……besides, it’s not seret that the Suns are probably targeting Josh Smith and LaMarcus Aldridge……it’s all over the place but i’m pretty sure both Portland and Atlanta are better off just staying pat. If it’s not Chris Bosh or Mike Miller, then we don’t need to hear about it.

Speaking of Portland……

Brandon Roy- Game Time

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 2:31 PM | Link to this

Hey Ken, Smith’s post game is improving. It’ll only get better. And his help defense is a lot better than Amare’s. It’s Marvin or nothing, if you ask me. How about Marvin, Solo, Speedy and a draft pick, for Amare and Matt Barnes?

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 2:32 PM | Link to this

And btw Ken, we all know it’s Bibby’s contract that they really want. Not Solo’s or Speedy’s.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 2:37 PM | Link to this

this guy would perform like a beast down here are u serious… we talking Amare Stoudemire … an inside out game with Joe Johnson.. eeeeeeeewww!! that spells contention in the east.. season in and out.. this is the type of help Joe was asking for seasons past.. a bona fide threat…

in my opinion, even in his youth Amare’s game is more polished and better than what Al Horford has potential to be … c’mon…??

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 2:38 PM | Link to this

Mike is back — no scoffing here. In my humble opinion Amare Stoudemire is the most overrated player in the league. Yeah, he’s really athletic, but his post moves are no better than what Al Horford has, and his defense is flat-out abysmal. He has a better jumper than Horford and runs the pick and roll much better, but like others have pointed out the Hawks don’t run the pick and roll. Maybe most importantly, Amare is listed at 6’10”, 249, while Al Horford is listed at 6’10”, 245. In other words. the Hawks would get no upgrade in size whatsoever by trading for Amare.

Steve Nash is the reason Amare is considered an elite player. If he comes to Atlanta, in Mike Woodson’s half-court based, defense-oriented, outside-in system, Amare’s defensive shortcomings will be exposed and his strength as a finisher in transition and on the pick and roll will not be seen much.

Making an Amare trade makes some sense if a) the Hawks believe Josh Smith and Al Horford are as good offensively as they will ever be, and b) the Hawks think acquiring Amare puts them in the same league as Boston, Orlando, Cleveland, and the Lakers. In my opinion neither one is true. Horford in particular has a lot of upside offensively that hasn’t been realized yet, and although a Joe Johnson-Amare Stoudemire one-two punch might sound nice in your fantasy league, it still doesn’t put the Hawks in championship contention, mainly due to Amare’s defensive shortcomings and inability to score in the half court against elite defenders like Dwight Howard and Kevin Garnett.

I’m with Ariose… if Chris Bosh is on the market, I’d gladly trade for him, because although he’s not a great defender either his offensive game is much, much more refined than Amare’s. But Amare? Nah. Throw in the questions about whether or not Amare can be re-signed in 2010, and I would stay far away from an Amare trade.

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 2:39 PM | Link to this

Thats the problem Ariose. Only if Smoove could play the 3. Thats why they should throw in Matt Barnes. haha!! And Ken your’re right, Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Amare, Horford is intriguing to say the least.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 2:40 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, and the Suns would have to be complete idiots not to ask for either Josh Smith or Al Horford in a trade. I’m sure they can go to some other team and get someone better than Marvin Williams in return for Amare.

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 2:45 PM | Link to this

And if you think BK was bad, look at Steve Kerr. What in the hell has he done to the Suns? 1st it was Marion for Shaq. Next it was Porter replacing Diantoni, then it was Diaw and Bell for Richardson, and now he wants to get rid of the player that just last year he said was untouchable. Talking about running an organization into the ground. This was a championship contender before he arrived. Pathetic.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 2:45 PM | Link to this

i wouldnt mind an OLE’ NASTY SHEEEEEED either to tell you the truth…

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 2:50 PM | Link to this

Najeh, this is Steve Kerr we’re talking about. He is a complete idiot.

By Ben

February 6, 2009 2:53 PM | Link to this

1. Sit Joe until AFTER the All-Star Break. These 2+ weeks off will be crucial when we are battling in the 1st and 2nd roudn of the playoffs. Maybe paly him in the Detroit game, but do not play him in these easier games vs. Charlotte or LAC.

2. Amare is the type of player , who with Joe and Bibby, will get us to the NBA Finals, but he and Woody will never get along. Dude is a prima donna

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 2:54 PM | Link to this

i tell u what… its curtains and the 3rd spot in the division for years to come if there is some 3 way trade to move Amare to Miami… Suns want young talent, and the Heat want to move Marion…

By Ariose

February 6, 2009 2:57 PM | Link to this

Poop, Exactly…..

Devin Harris~ Game Time

~Sir Links A Lot~

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 3:00 PM | Link to this

Bid Dave, Suns want young talent, draft picks, and expirings.

By Astro Joe

February 6, 2009 3:01 PM | Link to this

Hey, let’s get Amare, T-Mac and Starbury all on the same team. Who cares if these guys are known for injuries, whining, big contracts and falling short of team success. They are each ultra-talented and will bring a boatload of crowd-pleasing highlights to each and every game. So what if they will win 42 or fewer games a year? So what if they will more closely resemble the Glenn Robinson/Shareef/Theo regime (that left a young and budding leader like Jason Terry confused and frustrated)? Let’s just blow-up this squad that showed more heart last May than any Hawks team since ‘Nique’s 1987 crew. We don’t need role players, home-grown talent nor nor team-oriented players. Let’s just get some self-centered mercenaries in here to energize a portion of the fan base and then rebuild from scratch in 18 months when all of those guys leave us (or retire from sustaining their final career-ending injury). And let’s add Antoine Walker and Steve Francis to come off the bench. Come on, Rick Sund… we want an All-Star squad of overrated, self-absorbed players wearing our team colors.

By G-Real

February 6, 2009 3:03 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

What pieces do you see the Hawks having to give up to acquire Amare, if the Suns are interested?

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 3:04 PM | Link to this

just for the sake of conversation… Amare has never been in a scheme where defense was a priority.. he’s played for the Suns… for years their offense was there d… i think if the kid is traded, that would light a fire under his a*.. he will play with that chip on his shoulder.. not to mention mature as a pro over the years.. he is still a talent… there is no arguing that, God given skill and ability..

By Ariose

February 6, 2009 3:15 PM | Link to this

Asro Joe, Your preachin’ to the chior lol!!!!!!

~Sir Links A Lot~

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 3:17 PM | Link to this

t. barron, or a combination of 2 of them… i doubt they get all 3 from anyone in any scenario… well maybe a trade to a contender…?

By Ariose

February 6, 2009 3:33 PM | Link to this

Marvin is Getting his High School Jersey retired

~Sir Links A Lot~

By cp

February 6, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this

Lacsho once again I agree with you..

I was reading around and the Kings are also said to be getting ready to unload a lot of players. I think they want to blow it up and start over. Martin and their two young bigs are probably the only untouchables on that team.. I would love to get Mikki Moore and Garcia from the Kings. Garcia could replace Evans. Garcia is a better defender, a better ballhandler, and can score. Moore gives us rebounding and shot blocking.. You only make that deal if you can get Amare signed to a contract before agreeing to come here. He can opt out and we would be left looking bad again.

I like Amare but he would not get along with Woodson. Amare wants to be the man on offense but really does not play much defense. We would have to probably give up two of our young studs and a first round pick and I don’t think its worth it. I would rather snag some guys from that Kings roster.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 3:45 PM | Link to this

wow.. the media kills me… just watched Outside the Lines on ESPN.. and some guest contributer commented on the state of S. Carolina wanting to bring up charges on Michael Phelps.. this guy says not verbatim, “give him a break, he has suffered enough with the images out there, and his name being in the news, the swimming committee suspension, Kellogg striping there sponsorship ….” he even went on to say that,” Kellogg claims they are doing it for the kids by taking away the sponsorship, but if they really wanted to do something for the kids they would take Frosted Flakes off the shelves because of the youth obesity in the country..”

wow… amazing, we can all think of numerous instances where athletes have been shunned, demoralized, etc… for there off the playing field actions.. yet, in this instance everyone wants Phelps to receive a slap on the hand…? this one guy was found issue with Kellogg for removing their sponsorship, where children are their largest clientele…? a damn shame… his name nor Roger Clemons isnt in the news enough if u ask me…

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 3:52 PM | Link to this

Woody sucks up to his new comers… Bibby got here and still cant do any wrong and he doesnt play a lick of defense…

Amare has gone bonkers on us just about every game we see them, with exception to this years Phoenix trip. why wouldnt he get him the ball… and why would they butt heads? Woody doesnt have it in him… he only feuds and finds issues with his/Bill Knights drafted players… with the exception of Big Al…

By Aaron

February 6, 2009 3:52 PM | Link to this

For those advocating trading Smith for Amare, know that Smith is BYC, meaning it would be very difficult to trade him.

It’s Horford + filler, or nothing at all.

By mike NC

February 6, 2009 4:04 PM | Link to this

Even without Joe, I’m looking forward to the game tonight. It will be my first chance to see the Hawks live this season. (I live in Charlotte) Plus, I got free tickets. I can’t complain.

By JM

February 6, 2009 4:04 PM | Link to this

At first glance, Amare with the Hawks looks great but if we have to give up Josh or Al its a bad move. Amare and Al are the same size but Al has the heart and drive to possibly be a better player down the line. Defense and continued offensive growth says you keep Smoove. Even Marvin has proved he has game of late (but I would make that move if it din’t include Bibby and a 1st rounder). But who knows with this team. It might just happen.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 4:08 PM | Link to this

Aaron, thats not my preferred option but whats a BYC?

By lacsho

February 6, 2009 4:12 PM | Link to this

Hmmmmm, I like to trade flip and month for chillz….lol

I agree Amare and Woody wouldn’t get a long.However, JJ might like that trade.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 4:22 PM | Link to this

BYC means base-year compensation, which means that for trade purposes Josh Smith’s salary will only be counted as half of what it is. So as the Hawks make salaries match up, Josh Smith would be considered as if he was getting paid $5 million this year, instead of the $10 million he actually gets paid.

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 4:25 PM | Link to this

Calm down Astro. No one has said a thing about T-Mac, or Starbury coming to Atlanta. Only Amare. And its not even close, where injury is concerned, between McGrady and Amare. Nor is he as selfish or boneheaded as Stephon. Not saying I want him, but there’s really no comparison between Amare and the before mentioned.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

February 6, 2009 4:31 PM | Link to this

Not arguing for/against trade per se, but question:

Since Smoov is locked up, and taking into account all that means with regard to salary rules, etc, that would basically put Horford on the block correct (trading Duck would give us a Clipper’s like situation with 3 4/5 players for two slots)? Having said that, I love Al, but let’s be honest Isn’t Amar’e a better player than Al? (“shoddy” defense and all) I know that the objections come from the stance that we’d have to surrender more than just Al to get him, but essentially wouldn’t that be what it came down to?

RISE UP

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 4:31 PM | Link to this

gotcha…

By Astro Joe

February 6, 2009 4:32 PM | Link to this

Good, JJ and Amare could stay here until the ‘09-10 season and then one or both could leave. And then we can enjoy another 5 year rebuilding process.

bigdave, BYC means that while Smith earns $10M this season, if he were traded, only 50% would count toward the trade. So we would be giving up someone who produces like a $10M player but only is worth a $5M player in trade equity this year. Next season, Smith’s trade value will equal his contract value. Amare makes around $15M this season. We’d have to put together a package that gets right to $15M (because anything less and the Hawks ownership will start paying the luxury tax and that ain’t happening). So let’s see, we’re talking about something like Marvin ($5.6M), Horford ($4M) and Speedy ($5.7M) for Amare. Or, we could substitute Smith for either Marvin or Horford. Either way, we’d be left with an expanded role for Mo Evans, a guy who has reeked since the first month of the season. And are we getting a franchise player back? Uh, NO. We’re getting a bigger version of T-Mac. No thanks!

Maybe Miami will trade Shawn Marion back to Phoenix for Amare. Ha!

By ray

February 6, 2009 5:00 PM | Link to this

Heh. I love trade talk.

Last year, people couldn’t get enough of the idea of acquiring Amare Stoudamire. This year, he’s suddenly this guy with tons of baggage and no real talent (it’s Steve Nash that made him what he is…heh).

Funny how it’s mentioned that trading for him leads to nothing, because he can opt out and be gone the next year, but it’s okay to trade for Bosh, who can be gone in the same amount of time. And if Amare won’t get along with Woody and isn’t a super defender, then why is Bosh so attractive? No, really…

Funny how Josh Smith is viewed as such a retard, useless, doesn’t have talent, etc….but so many are loathe to give him up for two guys who are already all-stars. Oh, that’s right, both guys could be gone at the end of the 09-10 season, I forgot.

We shouldn’t rent good big men for a year and a half. That’s stupid. About as stupid as renting a good point guard for a year and a half…

Oh, that’s right, I forgot. Bibby is guaranteed to re-sign with the Hawks. Seriously. That’s what the little slip of paper said in Rick Sund’s fortune cookie. No, really…

Heh. I love trade talk.

By newkid

February 6, 2009 5:02 PM | Link to this

Okay, I’ll take a shot at an Amare trade proposal (just for the heck of it). Josh Smith @ BYC (~$5M) plus the rights to Childress (~$6M) plus Speedy’s contract (~$5) in exchange for Amare might get it done. It’ll keep the Hawks under the luxury cap, resolves the matter with Chilz, and rids us of the seemingly perpetual question of what to do about Speedy. It gives Kerr young talent (Smoove), the rights to a once highly sought after glue guy, and a salary dump(i.e., Speedy’s retirement).

For the remainder of the year the Hawks start Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Amare, and Horford, with the same bench support we currently have. We retain our picks, the right of first refusal on Marvin, opportunity to finish the season with Bibby and possibly resign him at a salary ~$9, and a potential ‘10 trade chip (i.e., Amare) who could land us a real 5 who’ll allow Horford to move to the 4.

How’s that?

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 5:03 PM | Link to this

appreciate it… Stro Joe…

Amare= Mac … no way…

and we dont want Amare in a Heat Uni.. trust me.. he and Wade would be murder…

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 5:17 PM | Link to this

good stuff Ray…

why isn’t the the (4)Josh… (5)Amare front line appealing to you guys..?

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

February 6, 2009 5:24 PM | Link to this

Ray,

I hear you, but when you think of it, we didnt really surrender much to acquire Bibby. I don’t know that we still possess enough detritus to hornswoggle PHX. The Kings were offloading salary, the Suns look to offload “personality”.

RISE UP

By This Gets Old

February 6, 2009 6:22 PM | Link to this

If you guys were in Steve Kerr’s position wouldn’t YOU ask for Josh or Horford? No way in h3ll that one of those guys wouldn’t be included in a deal, no way.

By ILL-logical

February 6, 2009 6:59 PM | Link to this

All of the Amare to the Hawks trade talk-and some of it sounds good- misses a critical issue: ownwership’s finances.

After the 17th of this month things will be somewhat clearer but after losing $174 Million , there can’t be much more water in the well. Plus, the economy… .

Anywho, all signs point to JJ and his buddy Amare trying out for the 2010 free agent olympics,so don’t hold your breath.

PS. The reason Josh doesn’t play the 3 here, unlike Dallas or Phoenix who covet him mightly at that position, is that Coach Woodson is punishing him for their earlier dust ups. Things have quieted down on the advice of management and others but there are no exchanges of Christmas cards between them. Rather than develop Josh like they did in Detroit with Tayshon-didn’t Woodson coach there- he continues to play both Josh and Al out of position for short term objectives-keeping his job.

Now he and his buddy Joe would love to move Josh and bring Joe’s buddy ,Amare,for a short dance before all of the above parties depart these fair shores. But right now the money ain’t right so we are going to just have to sit tight.

By Sekou K. Smith

February 6, 2009 7:02 PM | Link to this

If I was Steve Kerr I’d keep Amare, This Gets Old. And if I was the Hawks, I’d have a hard time giving up Smith or Horford. A real hard time. But someone told me once that if you want to get something good in a trade you usually have to give up something good to get it.

I still don’t think the Hawks are going to jump at any of these deals. But because of their situation (expiring contracts combined with young trade pieces), they’ll remain prominent in plenty of trade conversations.

By rms

February 6, 2009 7:25 PM | Link to this

the Hawks aint trading nobody! Nobody wants to come here. We got ownership issues and an incupalble coach. How about a Center, we need no more forwards besides we are giving Phoenix giving back the pick we got from Phoenix so really they would win in that Joe Johnson trade if u think about it

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 7:25 PM | Link to this

Damn… all you gotta do is look at these two teams to see what a difference coaching makes. The Bobcats are nowhere near as talented as the Hawks are, but on every possession, they are moving off the ball, setting back screens, getting mismatches, and attempting to exploit them. With the kind of versatile, athletic roster the Hawks have, if they made any effort to set back screens to get mismatches when they are on offense, they would be so much more efficient offensively.

By The Hawksta

February 6, 2009 7:30 PM | Link to this

Newkid

Listen the line up might sound good. But now you have three or four players with contracts expiring in two years? That’s bananas! Didn’t ownership just lose 174mil? Come on man! Who want’s a bunch of expiring contracts at the state of this economy?

By Ariose

February 6, 2009 7:37 PM | Link to this

Ray………….you guys are gonna get me for this, but Amare couldn’t stop Bosh from taking his lunch money. He just scores in so many different ways, and unlike Amare, Bosh doesn’t need the Pick n’ Roll to score 40+ points. He also has something that amare doesn’t, and that’s intensity and heart…..he’s like a younger KG. The guy is always giving effort. It seems like Amare takes plays off….a lot, but that’s just me.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 7:42 PM | Link to this

Al Horford plays below the rim…

By Astro Joe

February 6, 2009 7:47 PM | Link to this

Ray, if we can acquire Amare for the same type of throw away parts that we used to grab Bibby, then sign me up. That deal was done without busting up the nucleus. Somehow, I don’t think that Othella, RandMo, Speedy and Zaza will get r done for Amare.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 7:50 PM | Link to this

Atlanta Hawks: Making other teams’ D-League call-ups look like All Stars since… well, since the D-League started. Who the f-ck is Cartier Martin anyway? I’m a pretty big NBA fan and I’ve never heard of him until tonight.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 8:07 PM | Link to this

Well… this is what happens when you get out-efforted and out-executed, even by a less talented team.

At least the Hawks seem to have luck on their side though. Two banked in 3’s from Mo Evans and a buzzer beater from Flip Murray.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 8:18 PM | Link to this

once again a lack of execution and focus…

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 8:28 PM | Link to this

If you let Diaw post up people 4 or 5 inches shorter than him, he’s gonna convert every time…

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 8:34 PM | Link to this

has it gotten that bad at the line for my boy Josh where he needs a pinch shooter…

ive seen it all…

By Sekou K. Smith

February 6, 2009 8:40 PM | Link to this

That was nuts bigdave,

I can’t believe he and Bibby tried to pull that one. The Hawks can thank their lucky Mo Evans that they’re even in this game. He kept them alive. Now he’s going to need some help finishing this thing off (the rally), if they’re actually going to come all the way back. But the way they shoot free throws … well, just stay tuned and see if they can come back.

By otrhawksfan

February 6, 2009 8:44 PM | Link to this

all these slow starts should balance out when we go out west on our road trip..Lets go hawks!!!! lets stay perfect against the bobcats.

By ray

February 6, 2009 8:50 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe,

The scarecrows called. They want their straw back….LOL…

Shameless plug alert!-

New Hawks Hacks blog up…

By Mark

February 6, 2009 8:52 PM | Link to this

That Josh Smith Sucks!! I am scared when he shoots and I am scared when he takes the ball into the lane because the other team might foul him.

By ray

February 6, 2009 8:53 PM | Link to this

This RIGHT HERE is what aggravates me so much about Woody:

Johnson’s struggles in January look totally different to Woodson now that it’s become clear that Johnson’s fatigue might not have been more physical than anything else.

“He could have been sick and didn’t realize it because he had a lethargic look about him,” Woodson said. “So he could have been. And I was steady wearing him out and wearing him down with minutes.

“But my whole thing with the minutes and everybody talking about him playing too many, I was just trying to push for him to make that All-Star team. Because that to me, was extremely important for Joe, for our team and for our entire organization.”

The man knows he’s doing this. He KNOWS it. But he does it anyway, and this is his “reasoning”….

Your honor, the prosecution rests…

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 8:53 PM | Link to this

i like marvin’s production tonight… ill take that stat line any night… get to the line young fella…

By ray

February 6, 2009 8:56 PM | Link to this

Gotta hand it to Marvin. He’s not shooting well, but he’s drawing fouls left and right. And more importantly, he’s hitting his free throws. Anybody want to re-hire Mark Price? Heh.

Josh Smith is having an awful game. Flip seems to be turning it on a bit. Right now it’s all Marvin and Mo…

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 9:00 PM | Link to this

So now Woody is trying to claim that he played Joe too many minutes because he wanted him to make the All Star team?

Does that mean he will reduce his minutes after the All Star break?

By otrhawksfan

February 6, 2009 9:01 PM | Link to this

end of the 3rd time to get some stops and get some easy shots working thru mav some how at the elbow or in the midpost”where tim duncan sets up”.

By Blast

February 6, 2009 9:01 PM | Link to this

Screw trade talks. Who cares? Bloggers cannot make any trade decisions as it is. Why are we beating up on something we cannot affect? Waste of time. Too much down time for bloggers. The Hawks have a great chance of taking this game tonight. Live with the moment. F.uck what you cannot directly affect.

By ray

February 6, 2009 9:01 PM | Link to this

Not surprised that a bad game by Josh brings out the usual boo birds…

BigDave,

I hear ya. Marvin’s playing well. He’s not hitting the shots, but he’s doing what a scorer needs to do: draw fouls and capitalize at the line.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:02 PM | Link to this

i was stressing in that post i shared in 2 straight blogs about coach being star struck after that gm 4 performance from Joe… he expects and wants Joe to come up with those efforts every night at his expense… its a shame…

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:03 PM | Link to this

lets pull this one out guys… c’mon…

By ray

February 6, 2009 9:05 PM | Link to this

Najeh,

Those questions make too much sense to ask, LOL! I nearly ground me teeth right out of my head when I read that…

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 9:05 PM | Link to this

Win or lose Marvin is showing how the game is played. The other Hawks are starting to take his lead. I hope JJ is watching and learning.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:05 PM | Link to this

defense looks a whole lot better when your point guard can actually play/guard the perimeter instead of inside hidden… good job Acie… take that shot though boy… get your confidence up…

By Blast

February 6, 2009 9:06 PM | Link to this

Acie is playing great, man!

By The Hawksta

February 6, 2009 9:06 PM | Link to this

Regardless of what you see from the Hawks you have to appreciate the ball movement. Very few iso’s ya feel me!

By J-Lewis

February 6, 2009 9:07 PM | Link to this

I like how we are attacking the basketball in the 2nd half. If only we always did that…

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:10 PM | Link to this

Nique’… im a native and u can do no wrong buddy… but, please call it quits on the broadcast next year… i can t take it anymore…

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 9:12 PM | Link to this

We take the other team out of it’s rythem when we drive.

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 9:13 PM | Link to this

Better ball movemont without JJ.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:16 PM | Link to this

Blast, if you really wanna know the truth, nothing that we convey here effects anything… including “the moment”.. so whats your issue…? its a blog.. shared opinions based on what the administrator (Sekou) shares…

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 9:16 PM | Link to this

Co-sign the rest of y’all… Marvin and Mo Evans have played great in this game and have kept the Hawks in the game. Josh has had an impact on defense but he looks lost offensively, and he’s missed some point blank looks. Bibby and Horford haven’t really gotten into a rhythm. I really wish Marvin would be aggressive and get to the line like this in every game. Games like this show why he was the #2 pick in the ‘05 draft.

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 9:17 PM | Link to this

Driving the ball leads to that kind of attacking defense. When bodies are getting bounced around is hard to get out of that mode. Thats why I don’t like that guard offense first like JJ and Bibby get into.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:21 PM | Link to this

thats beautiful Marvin, u got Dr. Za Za working on Marvin over there…

By otrhawksfan

February 6, 2009 9:24 PM | Link to this

marvin williams for player of the week…keep it up..now if we can only get a lil pick and roll action with jj or mike mixed up with a lil pop at the elbow and we can be working wit something…

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 9:24 PM | Link to this

Zaza is an offensive foul waiting to happen. Omg!!!

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 9:26 PM | Link to this

I really wish Marvin would be aggressive and get to the line like this in every game. Games like this show why he was the #2 pick in the ‘05 draft.

Amen brother

I just think the players defer to JJ to much.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:26 PM | Link to this

give the man his touches when Joe comes back, cause Marvin fades into oblivion in coaches star happy offense… it will make Joe’s life much easier.. hell, iso Marvin even.. he’s bigger than most 3’s and can shoot, and put it on the floor… he should definitely be our #2 option… i honestly think he can drop 20 a night playing aggressively..

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 9:26 PM | Link to this

Zaza is on the floor in crunch time and commits an offensive foul… I know Josh Smith hasn’t played well today, and the Bobcats are going with a big lineup, but still… I don’t agree with this move. Josh’s defensive presence alone makes it at least a wash, and he’s nowhere near as likely to blow layups or commit offensive fouls.

By ray

February 6, 2009 9:26 PM | Link to this

Marvin has been money from the line. I like when he plays like this-aggressive. Nothing but good usually comes from it.

By ray

February 6, 2009 9:28 PM | Link to this

Najeh,

Agreed. And this begs the question as to why these games are so few and far between. Methinks you have a guess or two, as do I.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:29 PM | Link to this

he has shown and proved in Joe’s absence…

eeewww… marvin looking niceee…. going up on folks… ut o… the tarheel is in the building….

By Ariose

February 6, 2009 9:29 PM | Link to this

MARVIN!!!!

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 9:30 PM | Link to this

Like I said yesterday, Marvin is a totally different player without JJ in there.

By ray

February 6, 2009 9:30 PM | Link to this

Have to give Woody credit for this, as well. For once, we are staying with what’s keeping our heads above water. Usually, we go away from it.

Watching Marvin score 20 from the charity stripe: priceless…

By otrhawksfan

February 6, 2009 9:30 PM | Link to this

washington wizards are playing like the bullets tonight.. lol..

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:31 PM | Link to this

id keep Marvin and Joe on the same side of the court… why do we always have them on opposite sides… its ridiculous…

By Blast

February 6, 2009 9:31 PM | Link to this

18 of 20 free throws for Marvin Williams? Just keep driving the ball brother!

By Melvin

February 6, 2009 9:33 PM | Link to this

“He could have been sick and didn’t realize it because he had a lethargic look about him,” Woodson said. “So he could have been. And I was steady wearing him out and wearing him down with minutes.

“But my whole thing with the minutes and everybody talking about him playing too many, I was just trying to push for him to make that All-Star team. Because that to me, was extremely important for Joe, for our team and for our entire organization.”

Lets see if Woody reduce Joe’s mins after the All-Star break. Are would he keep them the same b/c he’s trying to make the playoffs. This guy got an excuse (i meant strategy) for everything…

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 9:33 PM | Link to this

Maybe this could be our future. Imagine if the best defender had to guard Marvin and left JJ to drive. I say let the ball go through Marvin for a few games and see what happens. Ouch a turn over.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:33 PM | Link to this

s**… Bibby wouldnt pass the ball… what kinda play was that? what were we looking for there… i swear we go away from whats working..

By Blast

February 6, 2009 9:36 PM | Link to this

Hawks win!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Without Joe!!!!!!!!!!!

By doc

February 6, 2009 9:36 PM | Link to this

niiiiice!!

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:36 PM | Link to this

bibby single handedly was about to cost us this game due to bad decisions… pass the ball… damn… that selfish… i wanna win/secure it mentality.. coach has embedded that into this team.. i swear… everyone wants to be the hero..

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 9:36 PM | Link to this

Wow, that was the worst finish to an NBA game I’ve ever seen. Bad inbound pass, hideous shot by Bibby, pansy azz layup attempt by the Bobcats… quite terrible. Nice to see the Hawks come out on top though.

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 9:36 PM | Link to this

And the rejection by Josh Smith!

By otrhawksfan

February 6, 2009 9:37 PM | Link to this

the words of 3d “get that shot outta here” now you Know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hawks win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Melvin

February 6, 2009 9:38 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith with a big block and steal after seating on the bench for the entire 4th qtr… Bibby ice the game with free throws. Marvin was spectacular. Hawks battle back from 17pts down. Big win for the Hawks.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 9:39 PM | Link to this

Najeh Z was out there instead of Josh because of the size on the front line off the Bobcats, when they took Diop out he came in with Josh…

By justin

February 6, 2009 9:42 PM | Link to this

I say acie law solo and the rights to J-CHILL this years 1st rounder and next yearS 2nd rounder for Amare! DO IT!

By terrell barron

February 6, 2009 9:44 PM | Link to this

Remember, Marvin is the youngest of the bunch. Even younger than Horford. And you guys were ready to give up on him. What a difference a year makes!!!

By Blast

February 6, 2009 9:45 PM | Link to this

Maybe Marvin Williams can now start becoming the player that was picked 2nd overall in the draft. He can go a long way driving the ball. Bad as.s game tonight. He is stepping up.

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 9:47 PM | Link to this

For the Josh bashers - yes this wasen’t his best game but you got to have his defense. Great block.

By Melvin

February 6, 2009 9:50 PM | Link to this

I will take this win…. Oh well, back to the ATL for a Healthy Clips team tomorrow. This game will not be easy as the records will indicate. We better come to play b/c Baron and Zach is back. Hopefully, Marvin play this way tommorrow nite against Thorton….

By otrhawksfan

February 6, 2009 9:51 PM | Link to this

it would have been nice to see this game on espn rather than a blow out now all we need is for acie to get going a lil

By ray

February 6, 2009 9:52 PM | Link to this

Can’t complain about a win on the road, especially against a team that gives us the fits all the time.

Despite playing against a front line that featured the 7-foot Diop, flanked by Okafor and Diaw, we prevailed. And that was with Horford playing a light 29 minutes or so.

Marvin was fantastic tonight, scoring 18 of his 29 points from the line. We really needed that, both the scoring and the free throw accuracy. If only we could get that type of aggression out of him most of the time. I think we could if we didn’t run our offense through the backcourt all the time.

It was great watching him and Horford passing the ball to each other down low.

Mo and Flip were great for us as well, and Zaza was aan absolute stalwart for us, as has become the norm.

Josh Smith had a bad game offensively and on the glass, but he was an absolute terror on defense. Is 5 blocks enough for ya?

Speaking of bringing Josh Smith in, that was a very good move by Woody. So was going to Marvin with the ball repeatedly, instead of trying to go elsewhere for scoring. Good job, Woody.

The way the game ended was crazy. Josh gets brought in and does just what we needed him to do: play very good “D” and stop a shot, which he did. Bibby and that airball jumper nearly gave me a heart attack. Shannon Brown looked scared the whole time he was in there, and it showed in his play. One mistake after another…

But we got the win. On the road. We’re officially 8 games away from matching last year’s win total. Let’s get it done quickly, so we can move on past that. I’m looking forward to the first winning season in years.

By justin

February 6, 2009 9:53 PM | Link to this

remember we can trade the rights for J-CHILL if the suns want him they sign him if not they dont pay him. It works.

By Tiger Woo

February 6, 2009 9:54 PM | Link to this

Nice win Hawks !! 29-20 !! 2 road wins without Joe !!

Now, let’s beat the brakes off the Clippers at home tomorrow - then Washington on Tuesday. Gonna get tough after the all-star break - will be nice to get a little cushion.

Great job Woody, as usual !!

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 9:54 PM | Link to this

Amare has to big of an ego. To high of a salary.

By Tiger Woo

February 6, 2009 9:55 PM | Link to this

5 blocks for J-Smoove !! Could he be getting his mojo back, finally?

By Da Real Real

February 6, 2009 9:55 PM | Link to this

Impressive, most impressive.

It looks like the light switch has turned on for Marvin. We’ve seen flashes of this but these last two games Marvin looks like a completely different person now. We were talking the other day about during the Bucks games who was better - Villanueva, Bogut or Marvin and in the end who would be better for the team. I tell you what…if Marvin continues to play like this I’d say we got ourselves a ball player. And to think he still has room to grow. Hopefully we can get him to continue to put back to back games like this together.

Another good thing out of all of these injuries and guys missing games this year we’ve seen different guys pick the team up at times. Hopefully this does something for Woody. I can’t wait to see what we look like when we’re back to 100% strength. I’m just hoping that Woody will use his full depth because these games, no matter how impressive or unimpressive they have been, they’ve added some depth to our team.

By ray

February 6, 2009 9:59 PM | Link to this

Terrell,

I think a lot of people have acknowledged that Marvin has made big strides this year. At this point though, he’s still not showing the same level of aggressiveness on most nights. I don’t expect that from the guy every night, but most nights would be nice. But this year, I feel like the problem is more offensive design than it is Marvin. We’ve seen him be plenty aggressive this year. We’ve also seen him start fast, only to not get the ball again during the game.

I feel that NOW he has the ability to score like crazy, but he won’t get the opportunity that often…at least not as long as we keep running the offensive exclusively through the backcourt.

Najeh,

It wasn’t a great finish, but I don’t think it was nearly that bad.

By 404atlhoops

February 6, 2009 9:59 PM | Link to this

Maaaaaarvin Williams! The man is coming through big time. With consectuive 20+ point nights, he is starting to show a complete game. I just hope Marvin keeps this same level of aggressiveness when Joe Johnson returns. Although Williams’ shot attempts will be reduced, I hope he continues to drive the ball toward the basket. Nice comeback win for the Hawks.

By Ken Strickland

February 6, 2009 10:02 PM | Link to this

Aren’t those of you who were calling Marvin a bust wanting him traded having second thoughts? How many teams have a 4th scoring option that can step up and take over a gm like Marvin has done. He’s improved his range to beyond the 3pt line, as well as his overall DEF, rebounding and passing.

Tonight, he almost single handedly got their 4 frontline players in foul trouble, which reduced their effectiveness in crunch time. Acie repeatedly forced their DEF to collapse in order to keep him out of the lane. He created some easy scoring opportunities for his teammates. OVERALL, THIS WAS A GOOD WIN HAWKS.

By Sautee

February 6, 2009 10:07 PM | Link to this

Road wins are like GOLD

By Hawkn It

February 6, 2009 10:09 PM | Link to this

Very happy with the way things have gone this season and what could possibly be a race to the finish if all things go well and the loss of Nelson in Orlando comes back and bites them. Sad to see that ESPN or TNT refuses to show our games outside of when we played Boston. I’m sure they choose these games before the season begins but surely they can flip some games over as the season goes along and try to showcase some of the teams in the playoff hunt. Just saying it would be nice for our Hawks to get a bit more national exposure as of tonight we sit in the #4 spot in the East and the only ones that can watch this team is us here in the ATL. Come on ESPN and shame on you TNT (ATL based cable) for not making the obvious choice and show some of our guys for the rest of the league to see. Maybe we will see more coverage in the second half who knows. Besides that I couldn’t be more proud of this team and what the rest of the season brings and the years to come. Well done guys!

By newkid

February 6, 2009 10:10 PM | Link to this

Good win; good show by Marvin.

Hawksta, that Amare deal above was just my reckless attempt at throwing an idea against the wall. Would I advocate it if I were an ASG principal? Can’t say without the sorts of info that can only be available to those on the inside. However, I wouldn’t want to summarily dismiss it without full consideration.

I think having several shorter term ‘large’ deals of the types JJ and Amare have is a huge plus, rather than a minus, under the sort of economic circumstances we’re likely to face over the next few years. I expect NBA revenues to fall over the next several years, and therefore the cap is likely to fall. A falling cap (i.e., deflation) means lower salaries for those players seeking deals during turbulent economic times. That puts the Hawks in an ideal position to re-sign JJ and Amare at salaries commensurate with their current wages.

So, if I were a partner in the ASG I’d certainly want my accountants to look at the financial implications of moving Smoove’s rising contract (and questionable upside) while we’ve got the additional pieces to make such a deal work, and while there might be an inclination in Phoenix to consider the swap. Who knows, could be a huge win/win.

By bigdave

February 6, 2009 10:11 PM | Link to this

definitely the scheme/design Ray…

By ray

February 6, 2009 10:12 PM | Link to this

The question, Ken, is will he go back to being that 12ppg type of guy when JJ returns? Marvin’s not a bust. In fact, I think the only draft bust we’ve had has been Sheldon Williams.

But again, how often do you think we’ll see Marvin give you a chance to say “I told ya so” when JJ comes back? Nothing changes if we go right back to Woody’s comfort zone. But who am I to argue with that…

By cp

February 6, 2009 10:13 PM | Link to this

I just hope Marvin does not fade once JJ comes back. He has to stay aggressive. The coach has to find ways to get Marvin touches and keep him involved in the offense once Iso JJ comes back.

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 10:14 PM | Link to this

This should not be JJ’s team. Should be the Hawks team. Marvin should be the first option. If Marvin got to where he demanded a double team imagin how hard it would be to double team JJ. These two dudes should drive 70% of the time. Josh also has good driving nights from time to time. If the three of them got into this mode……

By ray

February 6, 2009 10:22 PM | Link to this

CP,

That’s what I’m screamin’.

Newkid,

Good point. You never just outright dismiss things. Your points about the financial side are interesting as well. Something tells me however, that we are not even in the conversation with Phoenix. I could be wrong, but I don’t think it’s any more serious than it was last year, with the same demand being made: they’d want Horford, no ifs, ands, or butts.

KevinA,

It makes you wonder: If Marvin can drive like this, why can’t JJ?

By doc

February 6, 2009 10:26 PM | Link to this

well tonight was a good game. guys pulled it out with their will. huge win. with that i will say woody is a good coach and CERTAINLY NOT a great coach. he is like the jockey that runs his race not his horse’s, or maybe another way of putting it is a good jockey believes in himself a great jockey believes in the horse.

with that said i see two disturbing quotes:

“He could have been sick and didn’t realize it because he had a lethargic look about him,” Woodson said. “So he could have been. And I was steady wearing him out and wearing him down with minutes.

“But my whole thing with the minutes and everybody talking about him playing too many, I was just trying to push for him to make that All-Star team. Because that to me, was extremely important for Joe, for our team and for our entire organization.”

before it has been:

“It’s going to be tough on all of us, not just me,” Horford said. “But with all the minutes that Joe plays and the energy we ask him to expend, I can imagine that his body needs the rest.

this was about the time we had a blog called “Do you see what Al sees?”

woody, doesnt know how to get the most out of his roster without burning it up on one end and cooling it down on the other end. a great coach is able to read and sense his players so he doesnt burn them out before the final stretch or has them ready to play when they are needed. he will possibly learn some of those subtleties and i hope soon. he better be watching these past two games and finding he has more than one player than iso joe and needs to begin to find an offense that encompasses all of it. it has been too much “crutch joe” rather than iso joe. woody give up your crutch and show us you can really coach a complete team not one or two players.

overall, woody is such a control freak, he ignored all the signs that something was going on detrimental to the team and to joe so he could get him on the all star team?give me a break. now he is saying that he has to get marvin into a position to get to the basket. gee whiz, havent we been saying that all year? just put the ball in his hands, say i believe in you and will back you when you miss as much as praise you when you get it. what is so friggin hard about that? it is not neurosurgery, sorry it just aint. i truly can tell the difference.

finally, i wonder just who woody was saying he was listening to saying that he should be giving jj a bit more time off …. the bloggers? sorry, this guy still has not won my vote for COY until i can see him beginning to show he knows how to hold the reins to let them run or hold them back to save them for the next ride, he learns some horses have softer mouths than others, that he cant ride all the horses the same nor ride the precious ones hard and put them up wet. woody does many things well, he hasnt quite gotten it is the players that make him not the other way around. again, the great jockey knows it is the horse not the rider that wins the race. this team might have the capability to be great if its coach begins to take on the qualities of greatness.

hope folks caught josh’s comment. he said he hasnt been the same since the injury and he isnt capable of taking on the slam dunk competition. in the mean time he becomes a better player and teammate.

glad to see marvin doing it. funny, i wasnt as concerned about jj being out as much as josh and al being out, it only emphasizes how thin our bigs are. wouldnt it be a surprise to see the owners step up and bring in one more wide body without giving up anything. the great gm’s and owners do it. let us find out if the basg and my boy rick have got some game.

remember, it was about this time last year charlotte popped our post laker “we have arrived” win balloon with a blow out. again good win tonight for the guys.

look forward to one tomorrow night as we start his month with a bang.

kirk, btw the thrasher blog is filled with fire the gm talk. cant blame them since that franchise is the worst in the past ten years in the nhl. yup, flat out bottom, THE worst. could some of it be the owners and how they have conditioned the denizens? in that same time havent we have struggled and are yet to have a winning season in the last nine and past five where they have been in charge. keep it in perspective.

at the thrasher blog they also dont have a sterling premier vet to lead their blog as he admitted he didnt know the first thing about hockey. we are very lucky to be with the men of the blog z liar’s table as the representation gets larger and better each day. there are two premier professional blogs sekou’s and dob’s both in scope and participants. there are two non professional blogs worth reading and commenting on the one by rawhide about hockey and our two buds ray and ando. i feel blessed and always have some way to fill my spare time when i want to talk basketball and hawks basketball.

By The Hawksta

February 6, 2009 10:27 PM | Link to this

I following you Newkid just not agreeing with ya.

KevinA I think we have an answer to our 1st quarter deficits if we post up Marv at the start of each game. That way he’s forced to be aggressive from the start of each game. First 3 plays scripted with Marv posted up on either side with Josh at the top of the key and Horford slicing backdoor. JJ and Bibby on the wings? We need to keep him in the game!

By Mailman

February 6, 2009 10:30 PM | Link to this

KevinA,

If the three of them got it that mode 70% of the time,…teams would play zone 70% of the time. Gotta mix it up my man.

By Clyde

February 6, 2009 10:36 PM | Link to this

Woody seems to coach better when people are hurt.

By hawkeye

February 6, 2009 10:40 PM | Link to this

good game by marvin but not so convincing win by the hawks. the team is still not playing as a unit. the chemistry is still not there. i think we only got lucky in the past 2 games. i don’t know how long will this team can survive with this kind of performances. without jj drawing double teams they should learn to take care of the ball and move it more often. but a win is a win. GOOD JOB HAWKS!

By Mailman

February 6, 2009 10:41 PM | Link to this

The Hawksta, Great in theory , however tryig to force feed Marvin at this point would only stunt his growth further.Marvin has/continues to grow up in front of our eyes. One year as a non starter in college doesn’t count for more than a glorified internship.If we rush our “Jermaine O’Neal/Tracy McGrady”(remember these guys were young, moved at points similar to Marvins due to impatient decision makers)into roles that from a process stand point he’s not quite ready then we are a making a mistake..He’s getting close folks.

By rms

February 6, 2009 10:45 PM | Link to this

Consistency, consistency, consistency. Only after this team has paid its dues then the team will get the national exposure they so much deserve. Giving the ball to Marvin down the stretch was the smartest thing I have EVER since Woody do! I couldnt believe I actually WASN’T yelling at my T.V. because Woody was actually doing something smart to win the game! AMAZING

By rms

February 6, 2009 10:46 PM | Link to this

Dang doc u got a lot on your mind, bruh??

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 6, 2009 10:53 PM | Link to this

I just wonder how good the Hawks would be if they shared the ball consistently and all five members of the starting lineup got a roughly equal number of shots per game. Bibby, Joe, Josh, and Marvin have all shown on multiple occasions that they are capable of scoring 20 efficient points in any given game, and in my opinion Al Horford is capable of that as well if he’s given the opportunity. I’d just love to see one game of someone like Larry Brown or Gregg Popovich, someone who understands the importance of having all five players moving during a possession, someone who understands the importance of screens off the ball, someone who understands the importance of floor spacing coach the Hawks for one game, just to see how good they can be in such a system. I think Woody does a decent job getting the players to understand defensive fundamentals, but he is just lost offensively. The Bobcats really have only two or three efficient offensive players in my opinion, and despite that they were able to get favorable matchups and exploit them throughout the first half today. If the Hawks were that disciplined offensively, man, this would be a great team to watch.

By shawn

February 6, 2009 10:58 PM | Link to this

We are better off moving Zaza, Speedy and picks for Camby to help inside.

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 11:06 PM | Link to this

Mailman, Maybe driving 70% is to much. I just think we shoot better and more players get involved when we drive and kick. We seem to play better attacking defense as an added bonus. How about 7/10 drives in first and third quarters?

By Tiger Woo

February 6, 2009 11:11 PM | Link to this

Shawn,

How can you include Claxton (nothing Speedy about him anymore) in any trade talks? Hasn’t played in 2 years - damaged goods - who would want him?

By shawn

February 6, 2009 11:17 PM | Link to this

they want the contract not the player

By Tiger Woo

February 6, 2009 11:24 PM | Link to this

they want the contract not the player?

Why?

By doc

February 6, 2009 11:36 PM | Link to this

rms, not any more ….. heh heh

By mailman

February 6, 2009 11:39 PM | Link to this

KevinA No argument there.Dribble penetration is the ultimate form of aggression fueling one’s will. I just wish would get more out of Acie. Can’t figure this cat out…prolific collegiate scorer. Bashful pro.

By Mark

February 6, 2009 11:41 PM | Link to this

Maybe Marvin should be the third option after Joe and Bibby. For the rest of the season, Marvin should watch this game against the Bobcats as part of his pre-game preparation. Hopefully that will instill in him the confidence that he must have.

It’s crazy how Josh Smith (who most of you guys call J-SMOOVE for whatever reason) thinks that he is good. ( which he is not, even though the Hawks are paying him like he is.) He has that swagger and confidence about himself which causes him to try and do things which he isn’t capable of like shooting 3’s and trying to taking someone off the dribble.

Then there is Marvin who has the SKILLS that Josh wishes he had, but yet he doesn’t have the confidence to show it on a consistent basis. I wish Marvin had Josh’s confidence and swagger. He would then be a GREAT player.

On the other hand, I wish Josh was a little more humble and maybe he would be a BETTER player.

By KevinA

February 6, 2009 11:42 PM | Link to this

What about the Childress option for Jason Maxiell. Great bench player. Throw in Solo and Speedy if you have to.

By Farack Ubama

February 6, 2009 11:54 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry Mark, but you’re not making much sense.

You say if Marvin had Josh’s confidence and swagger he would be a great player - yet you say if Josh was less confident, he would be a better player?

By kirkinga

February 6, 2009 11:55 PM | Link to this

doc, thanks for the Thrashers update. Talk about the GM seems to be SOP for the Thrashers. Did I read that correctly doc? Did you really promote Coach Woodson to the level of “good”?

Another win for the shorthanded Hawks on the road.Something is going right.

I’m going to email the Hawks and beg them to trade for Amare. I agree with the first part of what ray said earlier about the conspicuous reversal of sentiment towards Amare.

No need at this point to delve any further into a potential trade, the blog-love for Josh and Acie is powerful stuff, but if the Suns want them in return for Amare then I’d vote “aye”.

A win tomorrow night and we’re back to where we were before Al went down. Truly amazing job of hanging in and around by the Hawks.

Go Hawks!!

By doc

February 7, 2009 12:19 AM | Link to this

kirk, yes, i said woody was good. some of the earlier bloggers can attest to the fact in the darkest days i said woody being able to keep these guys hustling was huge. some of his tactics looked right out of low lottery number coaching for dummies though. i dont know if he will take it up a notch here but if he doesnt stay i think he has earned a shot somewhere else and may be a better coach for it as he reflects back. still hold some promise for the guy if he could find it in himself to follow through on what he says he wants to do.

also kirk, amare would drive woody crazy and absolutely ruin team chemistry. he was one of the singular reasons that jj wanted out of phoenix, they had a falling out midseason as amare apparently didnt show jj some love or dissed him in some way. please say no to amare …. please. agree to disagree if you cant see the hand writing on the wall. i dont think jj wants to give up the mantle of numero uno, top dog, the man, etc. especially to amare.

By shawn

February 7, 2009 12:23 AM | Link to this

to get rid of Camby’s contract, take Zaza’s expiring contract, buyout speedy whose will expire next season and have room to spend when the big names hit the market. They are going to want cap room. Can you say Paul Gasol last year? Phoenix is about to start over. They got Camby for a 2nd round pick remember…

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 12:29 AM | Link to this

One common thing I notice about the Josh-haters (for lack of a better word) is that they all seem to think they have a perfect read on his personality. Some say he’s stubborn, some say he’s lazy, some say he’s selfish, some say he’s arrogant… but one thing is for sure: none of you have any actual evidence to back up any of it. Sure there are flaws in his game that are worth criticizing, like his questionable shot selection, underdeveloped post moves, and occasional inability to figure out which one of his many talents to use in a given situation, but please don’t try to act like you know what’s running through his (or anyone else’s) mind. Like one prominent co-owner of the New Jersey Nets once said, we don’t believe you, you need more people…

By mykhalc

February 7, 2009 12:31 AM | Link to this

But my whole thing with the minutes and everybody talking about him playing too many, I was just trying to push for him to make that All-Star team. Because that to me, was extremely important for Joe, for our team and for our entire organization

WOODSON is officially an idiot!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 12:35 AM | Link to this

I kinda have the feeling the Clippers would be more willing to move Zach Randolph or Chris Kaman, with their gigantic contracts, than Marcus Camby with his very reasonable contract, given their history of cheapness. If they do decide to move Camby, whose contract expires at the end of next season, I’d think they would be looking for contracts expiring at the end of this season plus at least one draft pick. I’d love to see Camby in a Hawks uniform, and if Sund can figure out some package involving Zaza’s expiring contract to get him, I’d be all for it.

By Harry Hawk

February 7, 2009 12:38 AM | Link to this

My favorite moment from tonight’s game was Josh Smith yelling at Zaza after Z picked up a technical foul for yelling at a ref. Josh had the same look on his face talking to Zaza that he has on his face when HE is the one getting teed up.

Good stuff.

Anyway, nice win tonight. It’s even nicer because Marvin’s on my fantasy team. Duck Butt can ball now. He’s gotten bigger, stronger, and much more reliable. Let’s hope he keeps it rolling.

By Big Ump

February 7, 2009 1:16 AM | Link to this

Hawks over came a 17 point deficit and it was hardly mention on this blog. But if they had blown a 17 point lead you would have all kind of negative remarks by some bloggers who masquerade as Hawks fans. Like Kirk said it’s nothing wrong to magnify things that went wrong when they lost but why not magnify things that they did good when they won. A true fan do it both ways.

By E.G.

February 7, 2009 1:19 AM | Link to this

JUST IMAGINE HOW MUCH BETTER THIS TEAM COULD BE IF WE HAD A BETTER COACH WHO REALLY KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING ON THE OFFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL.

By Gypsyjoe

February 7, 2009 1:27 AM | Link to this

2 down and 1 to go. I think Marvin is playing great. Keep it up guys We will be stronger when Joe does come back. maybe Joe’s min’s will be cut now.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By mykhalc

February 7, 2009 1:32 AM | Link to this

his mins will be cut now that he’s made the all-star team!!!

WOODSON…officially an idiot!!!

By kirkinga

February 7, 2009 1:52 AM | Link to this

doc, well first there was the softening towards ASG, and now Coach Woodson too? What is really going on here?

I couldn’t disagree more with you about a Woodson-Amare relationship. Coach Woodson loves veterans and Amare is a vet. Many have correctly pointed out how he overlooks some mistakes/turnovers from some players, but will yank Acie or Solo for the same thing.

Amare is a vet who shows up big in big games. I want that big game experience down the stretch and in the playoffs. If we’re going to win on the road in the playoffs Amare will likely hit some big shots.

He’s also a better low post threat than either Josh or Al. This is the second reason why I believe he would make the Hawks a better team.

I get your point about chemistry, it is quite valid, and I have said the Hawks should be mindful of the reason(s) why the Suns are willing to trade Amare. I have also been one to stick to the DFWI principle.

But I really believe Amare makes the Hawks a better team.You and others don’t, hey that’s just the way it goes, no harm.

Najeh, hope you don’t count me among the Smith haters, I have fully acknowledged his clear value to this team as well has his improving skill set.

Most of us have certain players we tend to be overprotective of and that’s ok. For me it’s Bibby, for many others it’s Josh and/or Acie.And for one or two it’s Coach Woodson! But I value Josh very highly and would only trade him for maybe,6-7 players with Amare being one of them.

I wish I could see a way the Hawks could trade for him and hold on to both Josh and Al, but I just don’t see how that happens. But if it did then I believe the Hawks could beat any of the three teams ahead of them.

Big Ump, great point,I think balance is important , don’t look over what went wrong or what went right and winning is never secondary news(unless there’s a critical injury).

Go Hawks!!

By Fritz

February 7, 2009 7:29 AM | Link to this

By Clyde - Woody seems to coach better when people are hurt.

Great point Clyde. It’s been mentioned on blogs past. Ther’s no doubt that Woody is much better when he has fewer options and he doesn’t have decisions to make.

For all you Marvin bashers who have relentlessly bashed him over the past three plus years and whined about CP, I remind you that if Marvin has played four years at UNC this would be his rookie season. Now he’s our best defender (did anyone notice we had him on Felton at the end of the game?), he’s a good rebounder, and his game is growing day by day. I was blown away when he beat Diaw off the dribble to the baseline in the last two minutes of the game. In his first year I thought he was too slow, but he’s really got great quickness on both ends of the court now.

Marvin’s grown in spite oh having a coach on the bench who doesn’t know how to develop young talent and has no feel for the offensive end of the court. He deserves a lot of credit.

By doc

February 7, 2009 7:33 AM | Link to this

kirk, no doubt your points are valid. i just think in two years we will still be seeing josh on the up swing and amare will be on the downswing playing for a different team as his contract is shorter than josh’s. amare is also going to be a load for any coach due to his tendency towards individual play not team play an area josh cant be criticized for. josh was just as excited for the team and others last night while on the bench as he was when he dusted off that last attempt by the bobcats. if he is to develop that post game the coach will have to encourage it, not sure about the encouragement at times. i have seen a change in josh’s game that has been dramatic over the last 12 months and still see it as only the tip of the iceburg. his impact will rival nique’s before it is over.

one item you didnt reflect on was how amare and jj were said to not have a relationship back then and could it be a happy marriage this time around. in fact it was said the locker room issue was one of the strongest arguments for jj wanting to move on.

still need a refresher on the dfwi. missed it the first time it was used. heh heh

kirk finally, i see you noticed, however, i have always felt the problem with this organization was more at the top rather than the coach or even the gm. geez, i tried to even rationalize the landlord thing by bk. i was a bit disturbed because acie reminded me of what had been a similar mistake made because of a lack of financial reserve or commitment. there has been an unforced changing of the guard that started with a bump when they lost chills, now let us see if they can learn from their mistakes or is it just luck and the blind squirrel syndrome. in the mean time i can concentrate on what i enjoy the most and prefer to talk about, good aggressive play and players i really like. that is why i got tix for the season and put the money where my mouth was. i look forward to seeing the team play tonight. it may be a one and done so i am going to enjoy it as best as possible.

have a good weekend.

najeh you must not like WWS. as long as they emphasize the defense their offense will suffer and look sloppy, hard to have a team look scrappy on one end and elegant on the other. last night was due to solid defense and gutsy play, not due to execution. the players just reached deep for that one.

By dap01

February 7, 2009 8:01 AM | Link to this

Marvin is the man. It was nice to see ball movement in the 4th quarter. I hope Woodsen and JJ keep this up when all is healthy.

If we share the ball in the 4th quarter, we will a much better team.

By KevinA

February 7, 2009 8:06 AM | Link to this

doc - as long as they emphasize the defense their offense will suffer and look sloppy, hard to have a team look scrappy on one end and elegant on the other. last night was due to solid defense and gutsy play, not due to execution. the players just reached deep for that one.

I tend to agree with you. Gutsy play and solid defense tend to lead to reaching deep. Our problem is how do we get to that gutsy play quicker. Mailman said it best. Dribble penetration is the ultimate form of aggression fueling one’s will. At the beginning of games JJ and Biby need to go through Marvin, Josh, and Al. If for no other reason than to juice the intensity of these young studs.

By doc

February 7, 2009 8:20 AM | Link to this

well said kevin a. i guess it is like establishing the run in football early, doing a little smash mouth on them. i like it. the coach may not if too many go of the foot early and i think he is the one who calls the plays isnt it? he said it last night, i got to figure ways to get marvin the ball … after three years he is still there? it also showed that a hawk can get a foul called on him in the lane if they dont shy away from the contact which i have said earlier jj does. his little floater and fall aways take him away from contact rather than towards the basket. how is he going to get the call? even little bibby is able to initiate contact to draw the fouls and does. thus far it is not in jj’s game. maybe it is something he can work on.

contact is part of the establish the run mentality in bball so it starts with who has the ball and how he uses it. woody your move since you call all the plays. coy not quite yet.

By Tiger Woo

February 7, 2009 8:49 AM | Link to this

Here’s a good laugh …

Talk about no respect - check out ESPN’s Jeff Hollinger’s Atlanta Hawks team forecast for this year - let him tell it - we’re going to finish 31-51 this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp08/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=HawksForecast0809

He says Toronto will finish @ 47-35 - well, they better get going quick because they are 19-33 !!

Same with Philadelphia - he has them finishing @ 50-32 - at 24-24 they need to go on a 26-8 run.

Then he predicts a 47-35 record for Cleveland and a 54-28 record for Detroit (a 28-7 run will do it for Detroit).

But the ultimate insult is he has Washington finishing with a 36-46 record - 5 games better than Atlanta. Hey, Jeff - don’t look now, but they are 10-40.

By ray

February 7, 2009 9:05 AM | Link to this

Big Ump,

Some of us magnified that Woody did a good job. Others magnified that Marvin was super-aggressive and hit a ton of free throws, something the Hawks as a team have struggled to do recently. Still others mentioned that our defense improved rather well in the second half of the game (particularly the 4th quarter). Others yet mentioned that we overcome a larger frontcourt. But until now, nobody mentioned that the team came back from a 17-point deficit. You mentioned NONE of those things, but did note that the team overcame a deficit. Magnification complete. This is what makes this blog so cool. Everybody contributes.

Doc,

I noticed that part about Josh Smith saying that he is still not quite the same, and it still shows in his play. I meant to copy and paste that, but got caught up in Woody’s self-incriminating comments (this guy better never go to trial for a crime…he’ll be the defense’s best damaging witnes…against himself).

On the subject of Amare, what are your sources as to him and JJ not getting along? I find it interesting that you have such good insight into their relationship, which seems to be a major source of fuel in your argument against acquiring him. Like Ando, I don’t believe that we even have a shot at him (he’s going somewhere else, I think), but I still find your vehemence interesting.

I understand JJ not wanting to give up the mantle of top dog, but is anyone insisting that he do so? Funny, Amare wasn’t “top dog” in Phoenix when all was rosy. Was not Nash the two-time MVP winner? Was not Marion every bit as active and involved on offense? Are you saying JJ cannot abide the idea of playing with an “equal”? If you ask me, JJ is one of the best players in the league, but his style of leadership and play would suggest that he would be more successful with a clear counterpart. In other words, a guy who doesn’t play in the same area on the court, but is an absolutely certain counterpunch. Despite all the “emergences” of Marvin and Josh as guys who can score fairly consistently, JJ still needs and does not have that other player that absolutely CANNOT be left, and commands his own double teams.

Notice that I have not committed completely to or completely gone away from the idea of acquiring Stoudamire, or any player of his type. I find it an interesting discussion more than anything else. I also find your vehemence interesting. You speak of writing on the wall. What does it say? You say that if one cannot see it, then just agree to disagree. That sounds a bit like “I’m right, and if you can’t see that, then just agree to be wrong.” No, that’s not what you said. But that’s what it sounds like, just a little bit. I’m not accusing you of anything…once again, your strong opinion intrigues me, and I want to know more….

By A Thinking Fan

February 7, 2009 9:18 AM | Link to this

Hawks win without JJ - Hmmm!

By Melvin

February 7, 2009 9:25 AM | Link to this

It’s getting near the trade deadline and the rumors will fly but I share the same views as this SI.com report for the Hawks.

Atlanta Hawks • Team payroll: $68 million • Potential trade assets: G Mike Bibby, C Zaza Pachulia • Outlook: League sources say Atlanta has zero interest in trading Bibby, who is in the final year of his contract. While the Hawks are hoping to build on last season’s strong first-round playoff performance against Boston, general manager Rick Sund is using this year to evaluate talent and determine which players are in the team’s long-term future. Factor in a pending court battle over co-owner Steve Belkin’s 30 percent stake in the team and the fact that the Atlanta Spirit Group (which owns both the Hawks and the Atlanta Thrashers) reportedly lost more than $50 million in the last two years, and it’s highly unlikely Atlanta will be buyers.

By ray

February 7, 2009 9:46 AM | Link to this

Tiger Woo,

Is that Jeff or John? Either way, you have him nailed. Dude is all kinds of wrong. If we lost tonight’s game, then managed to play .500 ball the rest of the way, we’d still end up with 45 wins on the season. A rather significant improvement, I’d say.

One thing I have to say about Philadelphia: Brand didn’t exactly have them playing better ball than last year, wherein they had a winning record, and firing Mo Cheeks is something I stilll don’t think worked. Too much changed for them, and not necessarily for the positive. I think they are a dangerous team without Brand, and this is a perfect time for Iguodala to continue his resurgence. Look for them to maybe make a run, although they still lack shooters. They will have to get it done on defense, and the ability to run the floor. Toronto is not going anywhere due to health issues, coaching issues, and the very same missing pieces that they were missing when the season began.

I figure Detroit will make a trade, but again….rookie head coach and other issues make you wonder what they can get done. They’ll make the playoffs, but not at their usual level. Still, they’re not a team you take lightly on any given night.

Kirk,

Amare gives us a very clear, very certain one-two punch when paired with JJ. A one-two punch that is low post…something that we just don’t have right now. If the guys we have now are utilized differently, then we don’t need that one-two punch so much…but that’s just not how things are run here. Our one-two punch is all in the backcourt, and we live and die with it. And now it’s worn out, and more easily defended/contained by decent teams. Our guys have plenty of talent, but not a single one of them has Amare’s stand-alone offensive ability….yet.

And while many would argue that we have as much potential talent as Amare brings, they seem to forget that potential is all we will continue to have if things keep on the way they do. In order for one of our guys to be what Amare is, we have to treat them the way he was treated: give them the ball, trust them with it, and stick with it. Otherwise, last I looked, potential didn’t win you any games…

On the flip side of the coin, does Amare make our critical post defense better, the same, or worse? This must be a heavy consideration (though I still don’t think we have a legit shot at him), especially if Woody is cemented as the Hawks coach for years to come (and he could be, for all I know). While I’m not all that familiar with Doc’s insisted rift between Stoudamire and JJ, I have to wonder if JJ wouldn’t welcome a more consistent, veteran co-threat in the low post. Well, I’m sure things will heat up soon, and we will find if we’re in the mix for this guy or not. My guess is that Phoenix won’t even talk to us unless Horford is part of the conversation. Let’s be honest, if choosing between him and Smith, you know who you’d let go. Phoenix has to be thinking the same way. And who can blame them? Shaq is getting older, and if you’re going to get stuck in the position of having a power forward play your center spot again, then you’re much better off with a guy like Horford (who can run the floor well, unlike Shaq) doing it, then a guy like Smith, who cannot do that.

By ray

February 7, 2009 9:52 AM | Link to this

Melvin,

Buyers, probably not, but I’d like for us to be “keepers”, if nothing else. However, keeping Bibby will be difficult. Sund may feel one way or the other, but it’s the multi-headed “monster” above him that will say yay or nay to all ideas. Like you, I’m guessing the answer will be nay, but there’s always room for surprises. Don’t know…

By KevinA

February 7, 2009 9:56 AM | Link to this

JJ still needs and does not have that other player that absolutely CANNOT be left, and commands his own double teams.

Doc Maybe Marvin can be that player. Make him the first option for a few games to see if he can handle the load.

Trades. You can help me with this. Amare, draws a big salary. Would a Childress, Speedy, and Solo for Jason Maxiell be what we need? His salary is 1,877,752. His contract expires this year.

By Tiger Woo

February 7, 2009 10:03 AM | Link to this

Yes Ray - I meant to say “John” - mixed him up with the old sports guy “Jeff” on Fox 5.

Interesting that he also has Charlotte finishing @ 40-42. At 19-30, it could still happen - unlikely, though.

By ant banks

February 7, 2009 10:13 AM | Link to this

okay, the hawks won, but i am not impressed. you bury yourself early by 17 pts. against the lowly bobcats, bobcats find a way to lose the game and hawks fans are happy? wtf?

if we get down by 17 pts against any of the teams on the west coast swing, or when we come back home against the likes of miami, clev, boston, orlando you can cancel the playoffs.

By ray

February 7, 2009 10:14 AM | Link to this

Tiger Woo,

I was just wondering if there was another Hollinger know-it-all around here…we don’t know what to do with the first one. I think Charlotte would’ve been better with Diop and Diaw in the mix at the beginning of the season. As it is, they may get significantly better in the last 33 games, or they may not. As you say, I don’t see them getting to 40-42, which is likely good enough for the 8th seed this year. They’re behind Milwaukee, New Jersey, New York, Chicago, and Indiana. Not a good place to be right now, and none of those teams look primed for a free-fall.

By mailman

February 7, 2009 10:14 AM | Link to this

Acquiring Amare confuses me. How can a guy be so good , yet so polarizing?Players hate to defend him, yet coaches pass on the opportunity to be the one that gets through to him.Say what you want about D’Antoni jumping ship and going to New York, I for one think it had more to do with the long term direction of the Suns(hint: Amare)than the short.The guy would have had an entire training camp with a solid veteran team to make a run championship, but instead chose the NBA’s version of Surreal Life?C’mon guys. The only significant piece to build around had MD stayed on board with a new deal would have been Amare.No way.The guy is Shawn Kemp.All the skills in the world, yet never gets it…consistently playing team basketball year after year.There is more to it than meets the eye when wondering why Joe really left. Was it actually all about the Benjamin’s? Joe knew in the end it would be himself and Amare. Now fast forward to today and you read where Joe is open to playing with Amare.Joe has fallen head first into the abyss of whether talent outweighs chemistry,togetherness,cohesiveness,unselfishness….and ultimately one team,one goal.Examples can be sited where talent covered all short comings(Cowboys of the ‘90’s), however you need enough savy veterans to mask these internal issues. We don’t have that. Place Amare next to Kobe or D’Wade and you have something. Just ask Gary Payton about Shawn Kemp.

By ray

February 7, 2009 10:16 AM | Link to this

KevinA,

Ask Manny T. He’s the man with stuff like that. Some other guys are good with it too, but I can’t remember who. If Detroit’s selling that, I’m buying.

By Tiger Woo

February 7, 2009 10:29 AM | Link to this

Ant,

You may not be impressed but it’s a good win nonetheless, coming on the road without Joe Johnson.

Call the Bobcats lowly if you wish - however, did you know that they have beaten the Lakers, Phoenix, Portland, Detroit, N.O. Utah, and Miami this year?

By Astro Joe

February 7, 2009 10:40 AM | Link to this

You guys have lifted the analysis of this blog to heights unknown. This is becoming the Ric Flair of sports blogs. In order to be the best, you have to beat the best,,, Woooo!

doc, good post last night about Woody… from all angles. Surely Sund had to take notice that his head coach decided to whittle Joe down to a numb all in the name of an All-Star appearance. So much for quality over quantity.

I’m certainly not expecting Marvin to continue to average almost 17 free throw attempts per game… but it is great to know that he has it in him to be a “go to guy” during a stretch of games.

I was shocked that Woody would bench Smith late in a game with a short-handed bench. Funny, Smith has had rough games when he stayed on the floor when Horford and JJ were both fully healthy. It paid off in the end, but still, it felt like “right move, wrong time”.

Here’s hoping that this recent stretch with solid contributions from several players means that we can win with a balanced approach moving forward. And here’s hoping that Woody doesn’t have any apirations for JJ to win an MVP. Dude will be playing 48 minutes for the Hawks and playing a period or two for the Thrashers. Joe-volkocic Johnson!

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 10:41 AM | Link to this

JJ has asked for roster upgrades since he’s been here… if there were any issues in PHX i think Joe would take the high road, he is the ultimate team player, just plays in a scheme that encourages selfish play… teams would be hard pressed to send that 2nd guy at Joe with Amare sitting at the high post, ready to can that 12 footer or drive and throw it down violently; or Bibby camped out from deep ready, aimed to fire; Josh Smith under the basket, this is never good; and one Marvin waiting for a swing out the double team, to spring up with the J or drive to the rack…

we would be beastly on the offensive end… our starting 5 would definitely be one of the best in the league… we should run motion… motion… motion… keep those athletes moving, make the passes… nobody in the league could jump with our front line and we could potentially live at the line… strong offensive production would have these youngsters getting after it on the defense end which would ultimately make Woodrow happy…

Amare would bring the best out of Josh on the offensive end, trust me if Josh see’s Mare driving the ball and throwing it down (Ryan King w/ a loud AAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAREEE) he definitely would want some of that and mimic.. Josh would bring the best out of Mare on the defensive end, with Josh’s shot blocking prowess….

I think if there is a way, which i doubt, you can add a potential HOF player on your roster you do it… Package Al… though i think our chance came and went in the NBA Draft of 2 years past…

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 10:47 AM | Link to this

this trade stuff is all over ESPN.com this morning… and to no surprise none of the experts have us as potential trading partners with the suns… so congrats to all the NO AMARE supporters…

By GMoney

February 7, 2009 12:10 PM | Link to this

Doc,

Totally agree with your comments. You guys said it all. Tonight will be interesting. I’d actually love to see what the Hawks might do without JJ tonight, not that I would want that to be the case for any length of time.

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 12:12 PM | Link to this

(Amare would bring the best out of Josh on the offensive end, trust me if Josh see’s Mare driving the ball and throwing it down (Ryan King w/ a loud AAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAREEE) he definitely would want some of that and mimic.. Josh would bring the best out of Mare on the defensive end, with Josh’s shot blocking prowess….

Last time I checked, Smoove beat Amare in a Dunk Contest a few years back lol, and the last time these two teams played it was J-Smoove with all of the vicious throw downs…….just sayin’.

Smoove may get you 20+ points or he may not, but his versatility of defense(as seen last night) can’t be matched by many in this leauge. Josh also doesn’t cry about touches(Thats VERY important……espically on THIS selfless team).

Our offense does not suit his style of play. We don’t run too many pick n’ rolls through our bigs……save for the Bibby smoove connection(Why would we break that up?) Besides, if they do indeed want horford, would Amare be a better center than AL? Last time I checked, he’s not much bigger than Josh.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Da Real Real

February 7, 2009 12:15 PM | Link to this

Yeah I agree with what you said earlier Ray. I don’t think the Hawks and Suns are having this convo unless Horford is in the mix. The other thing I bring into question is how long are we talking about Amare being here???

Are we renting him for just the rest of the season? If thats the case I don’t want any part of giving up Horford or Smoove and then turn around and lose Amare at the end of this season be left with nothing. I think we all agree when it comes to the ASG - none of us trust those guys. If we could somehow hold on to Amare which is going to require us spending money then I’m all for it. I just don’t think the ASG has the cash to do it and if they did I still don’t think they would do it. I think the Hawks will give them a call but I don’t see the Hawks being serious contenders for the guy.

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 1:19 PM | Link to this

Ariose,

im a Josh Smith advocate no that, to me he is untouchable… true enough, about the slam dunk contest.. to my point and intent though, Amare’s attack the rim play would encourage that from Josh… so many times we’ve observed Josh settle for a perimeter game; vs. going strong left, to the basket… i think you failed to grasp the intent there…

and yes, we dont run much pick and rolls with our bigs, but thats half the problem.. we dont take advantage of our athleticism.. so many times its one pass find Joe, and let him work. i dont know whats “selfless” about that scheme, though this is not Joe’s fault. last night was a good illustration of what can happen if we move without the ball… freeing up shooters a few times off screens without them having to work as hard.

what we do however, is run high post sets with our (C)Al around the free throw area… ill take Amare there any day of the week… with the ability to shoot that 12 ft. consistently, as well take a couple dribbles and explode to the basket. usually this results in a free throw opportunity, a foul, or a bucket.. Al has always been a below the rim player, and was just able to out muscle competition in Gainesville.. i really see him developing into a big that likes to shoot falling away, and off balance… and i personally would prefer a more polished post game from a inside player…

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 1:40 PM | Link to this

BigDave, I see your point now lol.

Having those two play beside each other would be rediculous itself, then when you add Amare’s finishing ability around the rim(which is indeed a lot more polished than Smoove’s), it’s defenetly a winning combination.

Sill, I feel we’d be giving up on big Al too soon. The Guy gets better day by day. How good will he be next season? With that being said, I don’t think the Al-Amare swap would get us a title this season……and those teams ahead of us in the standings have really huge front-lines, and Al loves nothing better than to get down and dirty in the paint with those guys lol.

I’m not saying i’m dismissing the trade all together, or that I am completly opposed to it. But it does raise a lot of questions for me……Can Amare provide the correct Answers?

~Sir Links A Lot~

By JerryWest

February 7, 2009 1:44 PM | Link to this

If Marvin can play like a 1st or 2nd option, do we need Amare as much?

Can Joe and Flip stop being a ball hog?

By ray

February 7, 2009 2:15 PM | Link to this

Guys,

This is all dependant on Woodson and the team. If Woody coaches/encourages an offense that involves our front line early AND often, then a lot of our problems go away. Pressure is off of JJ, and Bibby isn’t working so hard to find good looks at the basket (neither is JJ). We can talk until we’re blue in the face about potential.

Until it is coached and then executed, this is all just talk, and even the staunchest Hawks fan has to wonder every now and again which team is going to show up on what night.

This team is showing that they can get very meaningful contributions from a number of players when Joe, Josh, or Al is out. What needs to be shown is that this team can do what works best for itself when all the guys are healthy and ready to go. Continuing to run everything through the backcourt is a very risky proposition, as we’ve seen already. And if we can see it, surely it can be seen from the sideline.

It’s simple really: the attraction to a guy like Stoudamire is natural. With him, you know you’re getting a sure thing. You don’t put Amare on the court and not give him the ball. Even on a team where Shaq has become the focal point on offense in the post, Amare still averages 21 and 8 per game. What does that tell you? I know what it tells me.

The flip side of the coin says hang onto what you’ve got. And herein lies the issue, as stated above: What you’ve got is still just potential. Potentially, Josh is our answer on offense, down in the paint. Potentially, Marvin is a #2 offensive option (something people want to say after one game in which JJ was missing). Potentially, Horford is a double-double guy, capable of 15-point, 10-rebound nights on a regular basis.

POTENTIAL. It’s French for “ain’t shown me a damn thing yet.”

And so it shall remain while the system is the way it is. None of these potentials amounts to a hill of beans until somebody changes the way things are done. It has to come from the head coach, or the head coach has to go. It has to be executed by the team, or some players have to go. And it has to be committed to by both!

By ray

February 7, 2009 2:21 PM | Link to this

NBA.com hands out mid-season report cards, and gives the Hawks a B+.

Among the notables:

1.Woodson is given credit for keeping the team 9 games above .500 despite injuries to Josh and Al.

1. Lack of consistency is chalked up to defensive issues that relate primarily to injuries to Smith and Horford.

2. Smith is mentioned twice in the report as the biggest and most notable defensive presence. Take THAT, Josh haters….(and no, Kirk is NOT part of that ignorant contingent).

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 2:24 PM | Link to this

This Works for me……and Minny gets some nice Young pieces…..

……I’n not completely sure but I think “SS” is playing in Italy……I’m still digging for more info.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By ray

February 7, 2009 2:28 PM | Link to this

I’m not willing to believe that D’Antoni departed due to issues with Amare Stoudamire. I’m much more inclined to believe that it had to do with issues with Kerr and owner Robert Sarver. When Kerr and crew brought in Shaq, it changed how the Suns played. Coaches like D’Antoni have systems that work (hasn’t won a championship yet, but his system damn sure works), and they need/want certain kinds of players to keep it working.

I’m betting that Kerr (and whoever) decided that they needed to go in a different direction than D’Antoni wanted them to go in. So, he left. After all, he was in high demand, and highly respected. He knew he had job offers out the ying-yang. Amare had nothing to do with it, I’ll bet.

By darrell starks

February 7, 2009 2:28 PM | Link to this

I WOULD say bringing in Amare and the HAWKS WOULD HAVE A SHOT at the NBA CHAMPIONSHIP look at how boston DID IT BY bringing in RAY ALLEN , KEVIN GARNETT AND GAVE UP A YOUNG UP AND COMING STAR AL JEFFERSON AND A NUMBER ONE PICK TO make it happen and look THEY WON A NBA TITTLE SO MY QUESTION IS WHO DO YOU TRADE DO YOU INCLUDE HORFORD AND MARVIN OR DO YOU INCLUDE JOSH 1ROUND AND SOLO OR THIS YEAR FIRST AND NEXT YEAR FIRST AND JOSH SMITH BUT YOU HAVE CLEAR CAP WITH SPEEDY AND MAY BE THOW IN CHILDRESS but you have give up something valueble to GET A STAR LIKE AMARE. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Mark

February 7, 2009 2:36 PM | Link to this

Marvin has played much better since that concussion. Maybe it knocked some since into him.

To Farack Ubama, You posted February 6, 2009 11:54 PM | Link to this

“I’m sorry Mark, but you’re not making much sense. You say if Marvin had Josh’s confidence and swagger he would be a great player - yet you say if Josh was less confident, he would be a better player?”

To respond to your stupid comment, I stated that if JOSH was a little more HUMBLE, he would be a better player. Being humble is not the same as being less confident. If you can’t tell the difference between the two then you LACK COMMON SENSE. Learn to READ and THINK before you comment.

NAJEH,

Most people hate Josh because they feel he LACKS TALENT!! Why do we call him lazy because his game hasn’t evolved much. You even stated that he has questionable shot selection and underdeveloped post moves. We call him ARROGANT AND SELFISH because he thinks that he is second behind Joe, but honestly BIBBY or MARVIN is the second option on offense because they are better on offense!!!! We call him selfish because instead of passing the ball after getting a defensive rebound, he thinks he is suppose to take the ball coast to coast and usually he fails. Sometimes he finishes, but if he is fouled you know what he will do at the freethrow line. He is an AVERAGE jump shooter at best. His defense is only good when he blocking someone from the blind side. His post defense is a little shaky . I know you saw DIAW using him last night with all those jump hooks.

I would trade Josh for Amare Stoudamire in a heart beat. Najeh you must be on drugs to think that Horford post moves are just as good as Amare. You are freakin crazy. Horford will never have too many big scoring nights. Amare draws enough attention and double teams that it would make Joe a much better player. Great teams have good post players. Heck, I would trade Josh for AL Jefferson, if he were available.

Maybe Najeh you should ask yourself why you like Josh SO MUCH.

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 2:37 PM | Link to this

Ray, I’m cookin’ over here, watch out!

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Mark

February 7, 2009 2:45 PM | Link to this

Boy Ray, you are about as bad as some of those falcon fans that love KEITH BROOKING. You and Najeh think that Josh is the second coming of BILL RUSSELL. Josh isn’t even good enough to make an allstar team. With all of his athleticism, you would think he would lead the league or the team in something instead of missed freethrows. He is not a great rebounder, he gets his fair share of blocks, but he isn’t mentioned as great defender in the post. I won’t mention his offense because you know about, huh Ray?

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 2:59 PM | Link to this

“Most people hate Josh…”

No, they don’t. You are distinctly in the minority on that one.

“…because they feel he LACKS TALENT!!”

Even most Josh-haters (again for lack of a better word) don’t feel he lacks talent… it’s his decision making with which they have a problem.

“You even stated that he has questionable shot selection and underdeveloped post moves.”

Yeah, and I certainly don’t think he’s anywhere near perfect as a player. Like every member of this team, there are aspects of his game that deserve criticism.

“We call him ARROGANT AND SELFISH because he thinks that he is second behind Joe”

You have never been in the Hawks’ locker room before, and you have no idea whether he thinks that or not. Quit deluding yourself.

“His defense is only good when he blocking someone from the blind side. His post defense is a little shaky .”

A healthy Josh Smith is a Defensive Player of the Year candidate. There are very few players in the league who can block shots at his rate while keeping his fouls down, and who can single-handedly erase their teammates’ mistakes on defense. Considering the amount of defensive responsibility he shoulders for this team, criticizing his defense is ridiculous.

“I know you saw DIAW using him last night with all those jump hooks.”

Most of Diaw’s points yesterday came when he was switched onto a smaller player like Mo Evans in the post. He scored on Josh Smith a couple of times, true. Believe it or not, Ron Artest and Bruce Bowen get scored on every now and then too. Great defensive players are not immune to being scored on every now and then.

“Najeh you must be on drugs to think that Horford post moves are just as good as Amare. You are freakin crazy. Horford will never have too many big scoring nights.”

Apparently you didn’t see yesterday’s Warriors-Suns game when Ronny Turiaf owned Stoudemire more often than not when they were matched up against each other. I saw at least two or three plays when Amare, with his lack of reliable post moves, tried to out-athleticize (yeah not a real word I know) his way past Turiaf only to get his shot blocked. He finished yesterday’s game shooting 39%, against one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Yeah, it’s only one game, but yesterday was a perfect example of how unrefined Amare’s skills are with his back to the basket. That’s not to say he doesn’t have skills — his jumpshot is far better than Horford’s and he is an elite-level athlete. But no, his post moves are not significantly better than Horford’s if at all. Horford doesn’t have too many big scoring nights because he gets 8 shots a game. If he got 14 shots a game like Amare his scoring average would be higher too. And regardless, my reluctance to part with Horford has more to do with the fact that he is a second-year player with a lot of unrealized potential, while Amare is a seventh-year veteran who is as good as he’s ever going to get.

Amare’s bread and butter offensively is scoring on the pick and roll with one of the best pick and roll point guards of all time. Needless to say, the Hawks don’t have Steve Nash, or a system that features the pick and roll.

“Great teams have good post players. Heck, I would trade Josh for AL Jefferson, if he were available.”

So would I. Al Jefferson is a far superior post player to Amare Stoudemire, and unlike Amare he actually tries to play defense.

By BA

February 7, 2009 3:01 PM | Link to this

Mark, are you really on this board talking about Smith having “shaky post defense” after watching a game where dude had FIVE blocks, the last of which won the freaking game?

Where was the “selfish” quote where he said he’s the second option behind Johnson? I had no idea we could just make ish up to support our non-existent arguments here…

In other notes, why is Adam Morrison in the NBA? The worst starting small forward in this league in years, embarrasing.

I don’t want Amare, but that cat Diop would look great ccoming off our bench- a very serviceable back-up big.

By BA

February 7, 2009 3:02 PM | Link to this

Nice post, ‘poop.

By ray

February 7, 2009 3:08 PM | Link to this

Mark,

Read the “Mid season Report Card” article on NBA.com. Read his profile on DraftExpress.com. Josh isn’t valuable because I say he is. Funny how what you say about Josh and Marvin is nothing even remotely like anything I’ve read from various experts in the NBA. Sekou did an article on him, in which an NBA scout had a lot to say about how valuable a player Josh is. League experts continue to talk about Marvin’s abilities, and how he’s turned a corner. But they must all be dumb, too. Unlike you, Mark. You have a true grasp of the game, well above and beyond that of myself or anybody here.

I can’t imagine why you’re not writing for ESPN. Hmmmm.

Ding…..

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 3:11 PM | Link to this

…..yup….still Jefferson is no CB4, but he is a beast in his own right.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By ray

February 7, 2009 3:13 PM | Link to this

By the way, Mark. As a guy who likes Smith, I have two things to say that I’ve always said. One, Josh makes plenty of mistakes, and most of it is error in judgement. Two, even though I like the guy, I’ll always advocate trading Smith if it makes this Hawks team better in both the short and long term scheme of things.

I don’t know how I could possibly present a more balanced view.

BA, Najeh,

Good points.

By darrell starks

February 7, 2009 3:17 PM | Link to this

What games have you guys been watching name me one player on hawks team better than AMARE ASK ANY NBA COACH is he AMONG TOP 10 PLAYER IN THE NBA. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Mark

February 7, 2009 3:39 PM | Link to this

You guy can have it. Josh is the best player at his position and the according to Najeh, a DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE FREAKIN YEAR.

You are right BA, Amare SUCKS and is nothing without Nash. He would be even worst here. Josh Smith makes Amare Stoudemire look like Solo or Zaza

Ray you’re right. Those National writers they know everything. WE SHOULD ANOINT HIM RIGHT NOW AS THE HAWKS MVP.

As a matter of fact DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR (according to Najeh) and HAWKS MVP.

Josh should never be TRADED. We should be building around Josh instead Joe.

Josh has a GREAT ATTITUDE and is a STUDENT OF THE GAME! MAYBE SOMEDAY HE WILL BE A COACH. IT IS RARE INDEED WHEN YOU SEE SOMEONE OR SOMETHING SO TRANSCENDENT AS JOSH SMITH.

By Mark

February 7, 2009 3:50 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, another thing Ray. Don’t you ever mention Sekou to me. This man lost my respect when he had the NERVE to write an article about how BILLY KNIGHT wanted WOODY fired while simultaneously trading for Mike Bibby. When 790 the zone started to talk about the article and flip it around and stated that BILLY had no right to try and fire Woody when he had never gotten him all the right players, then SEKOU all of a sudden pulls the articles and rewrites it to make it more HAWKS friendly. Sekou always defended BK and never criticized him.

By Sautee

February 7, 2009 3:53 PM | Link to this

Mark

Man, are you just pi$$ed because the Hawks won two games without Joe?

Never will I forget your saying “GO JOE!! SCREW THE HAWKS” at the end of a post. It showed me that you are NOT a Hawks fan. Why even come here?

And then you have the gall to call Josh selfish?

Here‘s what I say to that:

Maybe if Mark were less selfish, he’d be a better blogger. ;-)

By Mark

February 7, 2009 3:53 PM | Link to this

Darrell don’t ask Ray, Najeh, and BA that question.

Their answer would simply be JOSH. He is much better than Amare and a better freethrow shooter. Come on man you know that. LOL!

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 4:06 PM | Link to this

The Lakers have traded Vladimir Radmanovic to Charlotte for Adam Morrison and Shannon Brown.

Link

~Sir Links A Lot~

By BA

February 7, 2009 4:16 PM | Link to this

Amare doesn’t make this team any better, when you factor in what Atlanta would have to give up to get him. He’s not the kind of big we need. He doesn’t rebound and doesn’t play enough defense. Horford and Smith are better defenders.

However, offensively, it would work. Many have posted that he is an effective pick-and-roll big, and that he wouldn’t fit here because “the Hawks don’t run the pick-and-roll”.

Never mind that we have a point guard who has made his bread and butter for years with the pick-and-roll, and actually runs it quite often.

Nice job, Mark- why respond directly to any of the number of good points that we threw at you when you can just write everybody off as blind homers?

By terrell barron

February 7, 2009 4:21 PM | Link to this

Morrison(bust) and Brown for Radmanovich. Good move for Charlotte.

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 4:29 PM | Link to this

Jermaine O’Neal Wants Me To Shut Up Posted by David Schexnaydre Jr February 07, 2009 10:25AM

I’m a true basketball fan. I like sitting above the court so that I can see things like spacing, movement away from the ball, and defensive rotations. In order to really see those things and really concentrate on what is happening on the court I feel like I need to be a decent distance from the court itself. This means that courtside seats are not necessarily the best option for me.

But they’re awesome, so I sit in them sometimes anyway.

However, if you’re in courtside seats it’s almost impossible to closely follow the action. It just is. There’s so much going on down there and the players are so awe inspiring that you really just get lost in what’s going on sometimes. Between the players, the sounds on the court, the crowd, the HoneyBees, the celebrities, the cleavage, and everything else going on down there it’s just too hard to pay attention to the game.

But when you sit courtside it’s much easier to get into a player’s head because you know they can hear you.

Just ask Jermaine O’Neal.

Friday night at the Hornets-Raptors game I was sitting on the baseline near the basket that the Hornets shoot on during the second half. For some unknown reason (actually, I know the reason, it’s called Heineken), with about nine minutes remaining in the fourth quarter during a James Posey free throw, I decided to start yelling, “Jermaaaiiinnne!” at Jermaine O’Neal. He didn’t respond initially but when I started talking about how he’s making 21 million dollars this season and only had 5 rebounds to this point, he glanced at me.

When we made eye contact I yelled, “You’re garbage, Jermaine! You should be ashamed, stealing all that money!” He kept eye contact with me and started to nod at me, as if to say, “Alright, you want to run your mouth? Watch this.”

Peja missed a jumper and O’Neal grabbed the rebound.

“About time! I yelled. Your point guard almost has as many boards as you do.”

The Raptors went down the court, passed the ball to Jermaine and he drove to the basket and dunked. My friend and I looked at each other. Uh-oh.

On the ensuing trip down the court O’Neal fouled David West. Once again, he was standing right in front of me so I started yelling at him again.

“Play defense Jermaine. Stop all that fouling. If you can’t guard him get your coach to take you out.”

He glanced at me again.

The next trip down the floor O’Neal gets the ball, goes to the rack again and makes the basket and draws a foul. Oh, crap. What did I start?

After Peja missed a jumper, O’Neal grabbed the defensive rebound and then goes down and knocks down a jumper. The Hornets call a timeout.

Now I’m a little nervous. Since I started yelling at O’Neal he’s scored 7 points in a little less than two minutes. The Raptors were leading by only 3, but now they’re up by 7. Am I doing more harm than good? Should I continue to talk to Jermaine? Or should I just consider the battle lost and shut my mouth? I looked over at my friend.

“I’m going to keep it up,” I said. “He’s Jermaine O’Neal, not Michael Jordan. He’s going to crack.”

I keep yelling at O’Neal every time he’s on my side of the court. By now, everybody around me is aware of what’s going on. They are starting to laugh and when O’Neal is on our side of the court they’re looking at Jermaine and then back at me to see what’s going to happen. Some of them are even starting to chime in. When the game gets a little quiet I start yelling, “Jermaaaiiinnne!” and probably about 5 or 6 people are following suit. We are all in unison. We’re getting to him.

After the Hornets put on a 3-point barrage late in the game it gets quiet for a second. “Jermaaaiiinnne,” I yell. “You haven’t taken a shot in a while. You’re so garbage your team won’t even give you the rock.”

The ensuing trip down Jermaine O’Neal gets the ball and puts up a hook shot. Air ball. He’s done. We continue yelling.

“Make something happen, Jermaaaiiinnnne! For all that money you should be a go-to-guy!”

The next trip down the floor Jermaine gets the ball. The referee’s whistle goes off. Traveling on Jermaine O’Neal. We are ecstatic. The game is done, the Hornets will win, and Jermaine O’Neal is totally rattled.

During a David West free throw with only a few second left, we start again, “Jermaaaiiinnne! Jermaaaiiinnne!”

And that’s when Jermaine O’Neal, multi-million dollar NBA Superstar, looks over at us and in an attempt to intimidate us angrily says, “Shut up!”

Everyone around us erupts into laughter. Fans: 1, Jermaine O’Neal: 0

Hornets win. Raptors lose. Good times for everyone.

Everyone, that is, except Jermaine O’Neal.

(blog.nola.com)

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Gypsyjoe

February 7, 2009 4:32 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

You have to give up to much to get Amare. Pick up another scorer to come off the bench. Mccants from the Wolfs. Get a big who can get boards and score in the post. Joe Smith from Oklahoma. You don’t have to trade away any core players and it helps us in 2 weak areas. What do you think Sekou?????

By ray

February 7, 2009 4:37 PM | Link to this

Okay, Mark.

You speak of nerve, but you have the nerve to come onto Sekou’s blog (that’s right, I mentioned his name to you again…what are you gonna do about it?), and say you have no respect for him, whatsoever. Gee, that makes a ton of sense. You have shown up here repeatedly. Why? Out of dis-respect? Please. This man has all the respect he needs from colleagues, players, scouts, execs, and fans alike. Nationally. You don’t like him, you don’t respect him, then kick f’in rocks. Why are you even HERE?

As for what you say about Sekou, it’s a lie. You believe what you want to believe. “Sekou yanked the story”…. Ever hear of an editor? How about a webmaster? Are these concepts too difficult for you to comprehend? What does Sekou’s article have to do with what actually happened? What did it have to do with what the radio station talked about? In your own words, you state that the radio station says Knight had no right to fire Woody because he did not get him all the right players. What has that got to do with what Sekou reported, which happened to be THE FACTS? Oh, I get it. You lost respect for Sekou because he reported some facts about your idol, Billy Knight.

“Sekou always defended BK and never criticized him.” That is a bald-faced lie coming from either a pathological liar who is mindlessly targeting someone he doesn’t like, or a person who simply can’t read.

Your entire 3:39 post is full of exaggerations, if not intentional, libel-filled misrepresentations. And that’s putting it nicely.

Like Sautee, I’ll not forget you saying “Screw the Hawks, go Joe Johnson!” Between that and your mindless hate for Sekou Smith, I really have to wonder what your purpose is in being here. Whatever it is, it makes no sense. But then again, that’s consistent with all of your posts.

Oh yeah, another thing Ray. Don’t you ever mention Sekou to me.

I just did. Like, 8 times. Your move. Fool.

By Mailman

February 7, 2009 4:44 PM | Link to this

Ray Don’t head to cash out so quick….How many jobs are really that better than the Phoenix one when you really think about it.I know, I know the lure of New York, but trust me it’s one thing to visit there, marvel at the fan support, yada-yada, it’s another to work there.D’Antoni might very well have had premonitions about the working culture Kerr was soon to cultivate but the real hurdle had to be early detection of a cancer in the locker room. Ask Shawn Marion if Joe doesn’t want to take the road less traveled. (Can’t say I blame Joe. Momma raised me better too…)…….

I’m betting that Kerr (and whoever) decided that they needed to go in a different direction than D’Antoni wanted them to go in. So, he left. After all, he was in high demand, and highly respected.

You can’t really believe that my man? If D’Antoni was had this fool proof system with what has turned out to be GREAT personnel , then why no Finals? No championship? You know what he had? He had a Texas Tech football offense that won games, not championships. And after working with Coach K he learned it’s OK to have that style of play but you must be committed to the defensive end.Amare’s not . So thusly you see him exiling players who have no inkling of a desire to play defense. He’s trying to create Duke of the NBA…uptempo/defensive minded team. We are in a similar style system here in Woodyville(well, when he is not getting in their way). Trading for Amare is wrong for so many different reasons.

By ray

February 7, 2009 4:47 PM | Link to this

BA,

Now those are sensible comments. And that’s basically what it comes down to. In all likelihood, we’d give up too much (Suns would want Horford, not Smith, and they apparently want expiring contracts with size).

Never mind that we have a point guard who has made his bread and butter for years with the pick-and-roll, and actually runs it quite often.

…And that’s a fact. And to the avid observer, it should be noted that we didn’t run the pick-and-roll hardly at all prior to his arrival. What a difference it has made.

Ariose,

I read that article, too. Made me laugh. Did Charlotte really do that trade? Man, they are starting to make me nervous. I thought the moves to get Diaw, Bell, and Diop were also solid, if not spectacular. But often times it’s solid moves that brings a franchise forward. Spectacular moves only pay off here and there (Gasol to the Lakers, Garnett/Allen to the Celtics). Others don’t pan out so well (Kidd to the Mavs, Shaq to the Suns, Iverson to the Pistons,).

By ray

February 7, 2009 5:00 PM | Link to this

Mailman,

I’m not defending D’Antoni. It’s simple. Kerr knew they couldn’t win it all with what they had, and Nash was getting older. He made a desperate move. Boy oh boy did it NOT pan out. D’Antoni, as you and I both said, most likely did not like the direction Kerr was going in. So, he left. When you coach teams in your system, and they win close to 60 games each year…and you quit…somebody is waiting on you with a job offer. And when your team has destroyed opponents that many times, you have people’s respect. Count on it. No, his style didn’t win championships. It won’t in New York either. But it will make the game fun to watch, and it will sell tickets. As that what I’m all about? Nope. But the people who make decisions often are. Besides, do you think of Donnie Walsh as a dumb GM? I don’t.

The Suns couldn’t beat the best because of the lack of defense, sure. And they still almost won. But D’Antoni and his system got outcoached and outplayed by some of the best in the business (like Poppovich and his Spurs). But that’s not all. How many guys on that roster were really committed to defense? Nash? He wasn’t, and dude was two-time MVP. Bell was by far the most ardent defender, with Marion behind him. Can’t think of too many others, can you? The other issue was the hole in the middle. They tried filling it with Skinner, then Thomas. Wasn’t enough. And Amare’s lack of defense didn’t help.

But D’Antoni leaving because of Amare? That was the point I wasn’t buying…

As for trading for Amare, I’ve mostly just been fueling the argument to keep it going. I can’t ignore his level of offensive talent, but no way do I want to sell the house to get him. That’s all I’m saying.

By the way, I’m still not seeing a committment or even a concentration on defense by this New York squad. Looks like same ol’ D’Antoni to me….

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 5:03 PM | Link to this

foremost.. JOSH SMITH is a one of the most talented guys in the league… he fills up stats sheets like no other player… he has God given talent.. we are seeing only the beginning of what this guy can become. he does the intangibles, and is an underrated passer… his decision making skill will develop with maturity… he came into the league with freakish ability/talent as a project that needed developing. he has developed into a solid pro, and piece to build around you re kidding me, and just have a pure disliking for the kid if you think otherwise…

secondly, i dont see Horford as a consistent double double 15/10 player… dont see it.. i dont know where/how he would get his points even if he got the looks… plus offensively he’s turnover prone…

Turiaf is a very good defender.. he threw a couple shot attempts and im not sure but i think a Josh Smith dunk attempt when we played them (top 3 in blk)… the Kid (Amare) still managed to grab 15 boards and finish with 19pts. Amare is passion and intensity… !! the only reason why people say he only produces in a pick in roll offense is because you actually have coaches out there who’s offensive design is predicated on the strengths of their players. see, the ability for a big to have success in a pick and roll tells me a couple things about his game.. one being that he can catch and finish at the basket… the other being he can catch and shoot if the defense dictates this… i think if we had a player like Amare we would run it…!!

by the way, u are s** me if u feel Al’s paint game> or = Amare’s paint game

By ray

February 7, 2009 5:08 PM | Link to this

Radmanovich is no “steal”, but he’s a sight better than Morrison, and Brown was getting almost no burn until last night (which didn’t go well for him).

We have to be careful of the Clippers tonight. They’re healthier than they have been in a while, and although their defense is not scary by any stretch of the imagination, we better not let them shoot against us the way they did against Memphis last night.

By The Hawksta

February 7, 2009 5:16 PM | Link to this

Man there’s some great stuff on this blog today! I hope Sekou had time to read it all. Some of you guys better be at Starbucks or Barnes & Noble because it’s a beautiful day outside. Good thing I don’t have a honey do list at the moment. Mark back again I see. He seems to make an appearance like once every two weeks. Stirs stuff up and runs and hides. I wonder what alias he uses in real life. Taking shots at Sekou and plugging 790. Hmmmm… sounds like an agenda. Quite frequently sports talk sets an agenda to gain interest to an otherwise boring program. How ironic… We have plenty of upstanding bloggers willing to debate your position. However, your sensitivity clouds any attempt at rational conversation. Hence the sports talk reference. Come on Mark smile for me baby!

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 5:35 PM | Link to this

Hawksta,

it is a beautiful day in the Phoenix City… simply gorgeous… temp and all…

By ray

February 7, 2009 5:38 PM | Link to this

bigdave,

I think Horford can reach that level if our offense is run more through the post, and less through the backcourt. If not, then yeah, you’re right- he won’t get those kinds of numbers.

By Dick Vitale

February 7, 2009 5:41 PM | Link to this

Who’s this Mark guy that slings insults thinks he knows everything? What a loser !!

By Ken Strickland

February 7, 2009 5:43 PM | Link to this

RAY-last yr when Marvin went off against Seattle, Woodson directed his key players to feature Marvin in his hometown. I said then he was capable of doing that on a regular basis. However, Woodson never directed his key players to feature him again, until yesterday. How Marvin performs when JJ returns isn’t up to him, it’s up to Woodson, JJ and Bibby. Marvin did what he did against Charlotte because Woodson directed his PG’s to feed him.

The question isn’t will Marvin repeat his last performance when JJ returns, but will Woodson direct the OFF and his key players to feature Marvin again. My question is, why won’t Woodson feature Marvin when Bibby and/or JJ are playing poorly, not just when one of them is out? Instead, he allows them to continuously force the issue, no matter how poorly either is playing. What’s the difference between featuring Marvin when JJ or Bibby are playing poorly, and when their out? If Wooson can trust Acie and Solo to play when Horford, Smoove, Zaza or JJ are unable to play, why not when they need a rest?

DOC-well said, and I can feel your building frustrations. The way the Hawks are currently playing, instead of pushing Boston to 7gms, like they did in last yr’s playoffs, they’d lose 4 straight, like they lost in Boston.

By Because It Matters

February 7, 2009 5:45 PM | Link to this

Well things are really poppin on the ol’ blog today! Wow!

ray, thanks for pointing out that I’m not a Josh-hater; I really would not trade him unless I really thought doing so improved this team. Afterall, it is still DFWI!

To answer your question about defense, well, “I don’t know”. I think Amare can thrive defensively and offensively if he is featured prominently in the game plan. To me, that’s why he wants out, he, like JJ, wants to be featured more.

And as far as potential versus proven talent? I’m of the same philosophy as I am with baseball, young proven talent trumps young unproven/ not fully developed talent every time. Amare is still very young and will get even better, he is proven but with a still high ceiling..

Interesting counter to my point about Amare and low post threats. I notice you played the Number 1 Hit of the blog, “It’s all Woody’s Fault!”. Look, I don’t think Al and Josh have the skill set down low that Amare has right now. He’s ready to go at jump, they are still developing that aspect..

And I would also point out that it’s not a 1-2 punch we would have, but a 1-2-3 punch because Bibby can hit that kill shot too. It wouldn’t rise to the level of the Celtic threesome, but I think it would be good enough to get by the Magic and gives the Cavs fits.

Also, I seem to be the only one who places much stock in this, put Amare plays big and plays big is big games. He’s done it deep into the playoffs so there’s no learning curve with him. Same with JJ, and Bibby.Battle-tested is, a or should be, a valued commodity.

On another note, looks like we’re going to get a big dose of Acie tonight. Surely we’ll all see at a glimpse of what Acie’s Acolytes have been preaching about all season. One game isn’t enough to showcase his talent completely, but it is enough to show there is something there…or not.

doc, thanks for the clarification. It’s the money guys more than it’s the front office and coaching staff. Got it!

Go Hawks!!

By TheHawksFan

February 7, 2009 5:46 PM | Link to this

Well the demise of the Magic started last night. Otis Smith is gonna get sent packing for not having a backup for Nelson ready. The Magic have gone through like 10 pg’s in the last year or so. Sund is looking better by the day. Probably is the best GM because of economics. I tell you what EVERYBODY is dumping dead weight. These times are BAD. Its like in the last 2 weeks if you make over 5 million a year, your not worth it unless your name is Kobe or Lebron. These empty arenas in the league are REAL. Can a NBA team really MISS a payroll one month??? Can the league really FAIL???I know that the WIZ and Sixers owners are sick. The amount of money that is going to be paid to NON playing players Steph Gilbert Elton Speedy (hehe) this year is CRAZZY!!! When you have the deep pocket teams like the Lakers Suns and Hornets dumping money you know its bad. It would make u think the HAWKS stand pat with a team 10 games over .500 and one of the lowest payrolls in the league. Im off to what I hope is NOT a damn near empty arena. But against the Clips in these hard times what can you expect??? GOOOOO HAWKSSS!!

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 5:47 PM | Link to this

i mean.. i think even with the opportunities.. i dont see that in Al.. like i see Al as a Dale Davis type.. i mean.. rebound solid d… nothing too much… at best an Antonio Davis… i mean, thats not to say you dont need those type players… because they are rare… a nice throwback player..

but, man… Amare… he’s a freaking animal… couple that with Joe, Josh, Marvin… Bibby bop.. feeeeeeeeeeeeewww…. an Acie Law… i could see it now, Acie with the blow by, and hand off to Amare for the nasty yolk…

By The Hawksta

February 7, 2009 5:48 PM | Link to this

I hear ya bigdave! Plenty of water down there bigdave! Crappie season be here in a minute(lol)!

Sekou any word on JJ tonight? Or did Mark already fill us in?

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 5:48 PM | Link to this

see.. Amare has the ability to get around defenders, go over defenders, i dont see that in Al Horoford… never has he shown those signs… he bangs, and fades…

By Tiger Woo

February 7, 2009 5:50 PM | Link to this

Bibby won’t play vs. Clippers

Hawks point guard Mike Bibby will not suit up for tonight’s game against the Los Angeles Clippers after spraining his left foot in Friday’s victory over Charlotte.

By hawk's hawk

February 7, 2009 5:55 PM | Link to this

went to the hawks game last nite, had a blast. there were about 25-40 HAWKS fan there, that i saw. Marvin was a beast last nite, i’ve never seen him be so aggressive on offense, and not just his jumpshot which he shot very well from deep, but i mean going to the rack and gettin beat up and knocking down his free throws. bibby didnt do much at at all in the first half, but the 3rd quarter was all his, he lite up felton, which got us back in the game. Al and ZaZa played played pretty good together and grabbed plenty of rebounds. Law was aggressive and LAWD HAM MERCY, his crossover is wicked, he played pretty good on defense and offense, stats probably wont show it. FlipMo,played pretty good also, MO was hot, flip played ight, had a couple of unforced turnovers, both hit 3’s ending the 1st and 2nd quarter. Smoove, didnt have his best game on the offensive in and he didnt grab that many boards but it wasnt because of effort, he boxed out his man pretty good, OKafor and Diop and Diaw, whoever he was guarding.But he had some amazing blocks, one that helped seal the game, and he did the dream shake last nite and nailed the jumper. Woody glad u played your bench, but somethangs kinda confused me and my homeboy, after one time out, looked like we were in a zone and man to man, sometimes we switched on all picks on the baseline and sometimes we didnt, but overall u did pretty good, specially how they jumped up by 17pts in the 2nd quarter. GO HAWKS, beat the clips tonite also

By ray

February 7, 2009 5:57 PM | Link to this

Ken,

Good points, and I didn’t recall that until you just mentioned it.

Hawksta,

Very interesting observations. Very interesting indeed. That would explain a thing or two…

Hmmmmm. Now things get interesting. Now it’s reported that Mike Bibby won’t be suiting up for tonight’s game. I guess that means that Flip gets the start, with Acie as his backup.

While I expect Acie to play decently, I’m not expecting him to get 20 points and 10 assists. I’m sure this will sound like a disclaimer to the usual Acie Law detractors, but how much do you expect from a guy who can get 9 minutes a game, and that usually in “garbag time” (as some love to point out, regardless of his contribution).

One thing is for certain: This should provide him with a rare opportunity that he should take full advantage of. I’ll be disappointed if he does not have a positive impact on the game.

Of course, if he doesn’t, I’ll never hear the end of it from a cart-wheeling Samuel…

By Clyde

February 7, 2009 6:01 PM | Link to this

““But my whole thing with the minutes and everybody talking about him playing too many, I was just trying to push for him to make that All-Star team. Because that to me, was extremely important for Joe, for our team and for our entire organization.”

-Mike Woodson

Tell me what’s wrong with this picture. Is Woody really telling us he was wearing JJ down with minutes so he could make the All-Star team?

How about reducing his minutes so the Hawks can make a strong playoff run. That’s what’s wrong with Woody. He doesn’t see the big picture.

By MannyT

February 7, 2009 6:04 PM | Link to this

KevinA If his salary is just under 1.9 mil, you have offered waaaaay to much in salary for him. With a low salary high talent player, you probably have to put in a 1st round pick with limited protection. The Hawks players would be 2 of the guys on min salary (except Hunter) in a trade like that. The other guys you mentioned make too much money. If the Pistons have a bad contract to dump, you might see 2 players coming from them. Think of how we would have to move the Claxton contract this year. Move a player the other team wants and Claxton to make the numbers work. Next year, Claxton might have value as an expiring contract—this year it is a lead balloon contract.

Unless there is a “don’t want Maxiel in Detroit: thing that I missed, you rebuild with the youner, cheaper guys like him and let the older more expensive ones go.

Once you shave your head, what would Woody pull out if he had to deal with Amare and the ole’ defense?

myk good to see you. I think Woody should let the assistants explain what they are doing. When I saw that quote about piling up the minutes to help him make the all star team, I just laughed. It’s the type of thing that keeps giving material to comics that make fun of folks.

So much to say, so little time.

Off to the game so I can see how many more Flair lines Astro Joe has on him. This one cracked me up.

BWAF

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 6:05 PM | Link to this

Bibby not playing tonight……that suckks.

1)WTF? he ONLY had 13 points, what did he do that was so darn strenuous lol

2) I figured Marvin may not be able to give it a go because of that calf cramp last night….at least thats justifiable.

3)I didn’t see Bibby limping did you? In the words of Mark Jackson “Mike Bibby, You’re better than that!!!”

4) 40+ Minutes for Acie YAY!!!!

~Sir Links A Lot~

By kirkinga

February 7, 2009 6:10 PM | Link to this

ray, I’m afraid it does indeed sound, feel, reads, like a big fat disclaimer…lol!

Though I tried to be reasonable and lower expectations for whatever happens in this one game.

yes that was me above,addressing you and doc.

Go Hawks!!

By The Hawksta

February 7, 2009 6:17 PM | Link to this

Did anyone here of Bibby spraining his ankle last night? I must have missed something? Just saying ray knowhatimsayin?

FREE ACIE

By doc

February 7, 2009 6:18 PM | Link to this

because, i have always liked the team we were putting together and though there were mistakes made didnt have too much beef with bk although his arrogance wore thin. cant give woody carte blanche because he has messed up big time in some areas but he hasnt lost the team and has the nucleus to do well. it is up to him to not screw up this time though. and not sure who you are because.

ray, that was given during the negotiations and the fall out with the suns. i had followed the suns for many years and was out there during their run and reading up on jj and his valiant return from his face being broken to try and make a difference with the spurs. i dont think i made it up. somehow jj and amare had an altercation during the season in the clunhouse and their relationship was done. it was more amare on jj than the other way around. i wasnt there but thought it quite promising for us to ultimately get jj.

By Mark

February 7, 2009 6:29 PM | Link to this

Well Ray with Bibby out maybe we can move Josh to point guard tonight. I mean you know with all of his talent and everything. GO JOSH!!

Please Ray even you can do better than comments like “what am i gonna do about it?”, “I mentioned his name 8 times”, and my personal favorite “your move fool”.

It’s just a blog. Not that serious. Maybe Sautee can help you out.

Oh yeah, GO Josh!! and for Sautee GO HAWKS!!

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 6:33 PM | Link to this

im going to be watching if the Hawks defense improves with Acie in guarding the perimeter versus being hidden down in the painted area…

as well as the offensive opportunities that could present themselves having a guard in that can blow by off the dribble and get into the painted area… hopefully Joe has recovered, and can focus on playing exclusively 2 guard. and not both guard positions on offense, having to compensate for Bibby …

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 6:40 PM | Link to this

Bibby kinda tends to waddle like something’s wrong with his ankle even when he is healthy, which might explain why it is hard to tell when he sprains his ankle. I am looking forward to Acie Law getting extended minutes, although I think he will struggle defensively trying to guard the bigger, stronger Baron Davis.

This Clippers team is not very good at a lot of things, but they do have a fairly big and deep front court that can crash the boards. In fact they are going to have a size advantage at nearly every position throughout the game. The Hawks tend to give up a lot of offensive rebounds, and whether or not the Clippers can hang around in today’s game could depend on how well the Hawks box out.

Ariose, that Jermaine O’Neal story was great…

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 6:42 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, and that Vladimir Radmanovic for Adam Morrison trade makes me think Rod Higgins and Mitch Kupchak must have been really bored…

By terrell barron

February 7, 2009 7:11 PM | Link to this

Acie, Acie, Acie!!!!!

By terrell barron

February 7, 2009 7:21 PM | Link to this

Horrible start. JJ still looks sick. Should’ve rested him Woody. Idiot!

By hawksfan

February 7, 2009 7:42 PM | Link to this

Dang Smoove looks sick too!

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 7:48 PM | Link to this

When Flip Murray’s shot is not falling, he is completely, totally useless.

Get Acie Law back in the game. Times like these, when the Hawks become jumpshot-happy and quit driving to the basket, are exactly when Flip Murray doesn’t need to be running the point.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 7:51 PM | Link to this

Wow… Josh Smith with the amazing block (he baits people into challenging him better than anyone in the league) and Marvin with the thunderous jam… maybe the Hawks have finally shown up to this game.

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 7:53 PM | Link to this

whoo!!!! Josh and Marvin Gettin it DONE!!!!

By O'brien

February 7, 2009 7:57 PM | Link to this

Why are the Hakws so inconsistent? I’m sure it’s not all Woody, but C’mon guys! Play some defense, pass the ball, and make some shots.

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 7:58 PM | Link to this

uuummmmm……I spoke too soon…

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 7:58 PM | Link to this

Nobody’s shots are falling, Baron Davis has two fouls, Joe Johnson needs to get into a rhythm… the obvious solution is to set a screen to switch Baron Davis onto Joe and post him up. Come on Woody.

By KevinA

February 7, 2009 7:59 PM | Link to this

Jump shots, jump shots, why is this so hard. Why is inside out so hard to understand? Woody needs to bench a jump shot.

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 8:03 PM | Link to this

i hate when miss lady officiates she calls that bullshyt….!!!

By KevinA

February 7, 2009 8:03 PM | Link to this

Bang-em boys

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 8:05 PM | Link to this

we have nobody to go to, for buckets inside… we do nothing but put em up.. all night… no easy buckets down low..

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 8:10 PM | Link to this

I’m as big an Acie Law supporter as anyone, but he doesn’t really understand team defense…

Joe Johnson should have taken tonight off.

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 8:12 PM | Link to this

she got a nice lil walk on her though…

By MAC-TOWN

February 7, 2009 8:21 PM | Link to this

any of you guys looked at the 2nd half schedule? It’s death row, and we are sitting up here havng problem with these weak teams. I wouldnt be shocked if we end up “fighting for 8th” again….I hope not. but u never know

By Sautee

February 7, 2009 8:34 PM | Link to this

Mark

To Farack Ubama, who questioned a statement you made, you said this:

“To respond to your stupid comment, I stated that if JOSH was a little more HUMBLE, he would be a better player. Being humble is not the same as being less confident. If you can’t tell the difference between the two then you LACK COMMON SENSE. Learn to READ and THINK before you comment.”

And NOW you’re saying “It’s just a blog, it’s not that serious”

If it’s not that serious, why did you get personal with him, accusing him of having no common sense?

If it’s not that serious, then why did you ask Ray to not even MENTION Sekou’s name (oops!)?

You have no credibility here when you contradict yourself, glibly accuse others, and make idiotic statements like “Go Joe, Screw The Hawks.”

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 8:43 PM | Link to this

“any of you guys looked at the 2nd half schedule?”

No doubt the Hawks have a brutal schedule after the All Star Break through mid-March. If there’s any good news, the Pistons and Heat have some tough matchups too. But this is the reason why people like me have been complaining about the Hawks’ recent wins as well as the losses, because they are going to have to step up their game if they want to maintain their current seeding after the All Star break.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 8:45 PM | Link to this

Man, Al Thornton is a really well-rounded offensive player. Wish Josh Smith had those kind of handles.

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 8:45 PM | Link to this

coach is a dumb fu#$…

i would have not taken Acie out of this game… what do you gain…? he has played point welll… i dont blame Solo or Acie for their short comings on D, thats coaches fault.. they dont get enough game experience to help their respected defensive games… of course Solo is going to go for an pump fake with sec. on the clock at the end of a qrt. he’s put in there every once in a while and told to be aggressive on d or whatnot.. he hasnt learned the ends and outs, or tendencies. so vet like Camby will naturally take advantage of his over anxious play… as far Acie.. hell.. there will be times where he will get lost.. he hasnt learned to play with his mates on the defensive end…

COACH IS AN IDIOT!!! FIRE HIS A*!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 8:52 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t look like the Hawks are going to make any miraculous comebacks in this second half. Not the way they are playing defense and rebounding. This is a pretty pathetic performance for a playoff team.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 8:53 PM | Link to this

Zaza Pachulia is just getting torched by Zach Randolph on both ends of the floor. I have no idea why he is playing more minutes than Al Horford. Get his azz on the bench.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 8:58 PM | Link to this

The Clippers have 28 dimes and only 3 turnovers tonight.

That is just ridiculous.

By Ed

February 7, 2009 9:01 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately unless the Hawks fall below .500 Woody will be back next year regardless of how they do in the playoffs.

By terrell barron

February 7, 2009 9:05 PM | Link to this

Woody, please empty the bench. This game is over. Omg!!

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 9:09 PM | Link to this

joe tired as shyt… he probably has sweat the flu back into his muscles…

By Ariose

February 7, 2009 9:09 PM | Link to this

I Hate AL Thorton……always tryna show off whenever he plays Atlanta….If he played like that every game…………

By terrell barron

February 7, 2009 9:11 PM | Link to this

Why are the starters still in this f******* game? We better watch out. Miami is up on the Sixers. Btw, this has to be one of the most pathetic performances of the year. Lose to the Clippers at home. Wow!!!!! 7th or 8th seed, here we come.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2009 9:13 PM | Link to this

There are a lot of stats that can describe how brutal the Hawks’ performance has been in tonight’s game. The Clippers are +7 in turnover margin, +5 in offensive boards, +4 in total boards, they are shooting 55%, etc. But here is the most atrocious stat to me:

Of the five members of the starting lineup, Acie Law has the best +/- at -3. Everyone else is in double digit negatives.

And for some reason, he’s only played 20 minutes.

What, exactly, did Flip Murray do that was so great when he was on the floor? Absolutely nothing.

Acie and Al Horford played fine when they were on the floor and the Hawks looked competitive. Flip Murray and Zaza Pachulia played awful when they were on the floor on both ends and the Hawks looked terrible. What exactly motivates Woody to make these retarded substitutions?

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 9:17 PM | Link to this

they have another good GA boy down there at FSU Mr. Toney Douglas

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 9:20 PM | Link to this

Woody’s brain motivates him to make those subs… Woody’s brain..

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 9:25 PM | Link to this

what Mario talking bout down there….

he misses…: “hhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!”

gotta love Mario..

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 9:30 PM | Link to this

this game shows how much we rely on our starting guard play… an ill Joe Johnson and no Bibby…

By Justin

February 7, 2009 9:34 PM | Link to this

Hard to justify losing by 20+ at home to a team on pace to win about 18 games. Even with Bibby out, you can’t put this loss on Acie. Even if you could, you would still have to say Coach didn’t have the back up prepared adequately for the situation.

By terrell barron

February 7, 2009 9:35 PM | Link to this

Cant wait to see Woody on Hawks Live. What’s his excuse tonight?

By Ed

February 7, 2009 9:36 PM | Link to this

All in all, a very respectable game from Acie; 6 assists, 2 turnovers, 3-9 shooting in 28 mins. His -6 pt differential rating was the best or anyone except for Solo who only played 5 mins.

By kirkinga

February 7, 2009 9:40 PM | Link to this

Pure ugliness tonight folks, no other way to put it.Yuck, and at home too which is awful.

If nothing else this game underscores just how important Bibby is to this team.Someone earlier this week seem to imply that Bibby’s importance to the offense could easily be replaced especially with a PG who was better defensively. I think we can say that this game questions the soundness of that idea.

I can’t help but wonder what it would’ve been like to have Amare tonight as the go-to guy with Bibby out and JJ clearly not fully recovered.

Marvin should’ve had more than 9 shot attempts(in 37 minutes and only 1 foul called) tonight, don’t what the reason for that low number was but that really stands out to me looking at the box score.

Need to at least split the next two games going into the break and come back fresh and recovered.

Go Hawks!!

By terrell barron

February 7, 2009 9:41 PM | Link to this

The Heat lost, but Detroit is up on Milwaukee.

By Big Ump

February 7, 2009 9:43 PM | Link to this

Ray:

My article said that **-SOME bloggers only mention the negative parts. No where did I mention everyone. You have bloggers that post both ways, which include you and other blogger like Doc and many others. My blog did not attain to you, only the extreme ones Ray, who never have anything good to say.

By doc

February 7, 2009 9:55 PM | Link to this

i didnt expect what i saw tonight, the hwaks were asleep and the better team won.

best past of the game was skyhawk and seeing melvin on the kiss cam. yup the blog z liars table went big time and made it to the kiss cam. melvin you got a doll dude.

thronton torched us.

jj was sleep walking, my dx is mono, rx rest.

glad i left at the start of the fourth hand writing on the wall.

nuff said.

shout to my bruhs manny t and ando also there.

By Ed

February 7, 2009 9:55 PM | Link to this

As soon as Joe comes back Marvin goes back to being a role player again. It’s hard to change the personality of a team on the fly unless the issue is pushed by the coach & said player is encouraged to demand the ball more. We are giving up a lot by hampering Marvin’s growth such has been the case w/ Acie.

By Woody Said

February 7, 2009 10:01 PM | Link to this

This is the 1st time they didnt compete. Probably cause Joe should have not been playing. Ya think??? WTF??? Mario should have got Joes minutes. Flip has been the reason Acie is on the bench, but when you need a starter you throw Acie into the Fire??? Wood drowwwww. Yes Esther??? Hiccuppp …. ARRGGHHHHH!!!

By hawksfan

February 7, 2009 10:07 PM | Link to this

Tough loss in front of a so called sell out crowd. I wish everyone else would have matched Josh Smith’s energy during the 1st half. So is anyone going to the Full Court Fest tomorrow?

By doc

February 7, 2009 10:10 PM | Link to this

kirk=because, i thought so and i see our posts overlapped there.

who was going to get it to amare, i didnt see steve nash on the floor in a white jersey kirk. heh heh

time to forget about this one, there was NOTHING respectable about tonight’s game i assure all. well almost nothing, cant forget i got to see melvin on the jumbotron. that was pretty respectable

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 10:17 PM | Link to this

dont think Bibby would have made that much of a difference tonight… but it definitely shows that our scheme is flawed…

By doc

February 7, 2009 10:19 PM | Link to this

big ump, are you accusing me and ray of being bi? heh heh

By Woody's Conscience

February 7, 2009 11:00 PM | Link to this

A little birdie told me that Nique said something about the Clips basically being a one-on-one team. We are basically a one-on-one team that plays better when it actually passes the ball.

Even so, the offense didn’t kill us tonight. It was the interior defense. I know Randolph and Thornton combined to knock down four 3s, but they did the bulk of their work inside. If you throw in Camby’s 16 points, we gave up 72 points to three frontcourt players. In other words, Al, Zaza, Josh, and Marvin all got their heads handed to them.

Acie was alright. He had some ugly plays, but that’s going to happen when a player is thrown into the fire. I know I don’t play him enough. I just don’t think he could play for Bobby Knight, that’s all. Flip was probably the most disappointing player tonight. After all, he’s one of kirkinga’s, I mean, my vets. (kirk just loves him some vets, don’t he?) Acie tried to run some offensive sets tonight. Did anyone else notice how we can’t run basic offensive sets? This has been harped on many times by fools who don’t know nothing about basketball (I have a ring, haters), but dammit, what the f*** is wrong with my team? We could only be that bad if I don’t have any kind of offensive philosophy other than “vet holds on to ball, takes shot, maybe we get a putback or something.”

Ahhh, f*** it all, it’s because Mike couldn’t go. We just have to tighten up our defense. Maybe I didn’t play Joe enough? Yeah. That’s the ticket.

By The Hawksta

February 8, 2009 2:11 AM | Link to this

Sorry I had to missed this one… I got it on tivo probably won’t watch it though.

By hawkeye

February 8, 2009 6:56 AM | Link to this

this is what i fear. we relied too much on our backcourt. is it safe to say that we just missed mike’s leadership tonight? i know he’s presence won’t make much of a difference but i think we could have finished the game with much closer margin rather than a blow out. jj shot poorly 6-15 tonight and its obvious that the rhythm is not there but i think mike could have help jj create those mismatches with his usual screens that we’ve seen a number of times already. we can’t also blame acie’s performance the kid is barely getting enough playing time. it’s our failure to develop him that cost us this game. when jj was out we have somebody like marvin/ flipmo to compensate the scoring. i remember somebody posted here that if mike got injured we’ll be in trouble cause we don’t have a solid replacement for him and this game shows it. well maybe its too early to say. i just hope i’m wrong.

By ray

February 8, 2009 7:26 AM | Link to this

Yeccch, what a game.

Our defense was a joke, giving up 57% shooting to the hot Clippers. It didn’t help that they were hot, either (did I mention they’re hot at the moment).

Woody should have said “no” when Joe asked if he was needed. But he just couldn’t do it, could he? Joe looked like he had the flu. He wasn’t ready. Woody should have let the guy rest, and get back to full strength. All that, and he still managed 17 points, to go with a couple of assists and rebounds, as well as 3 turnovers.

One thing that I recall saying was that if Bibby was ever out, things would be rough. Well gee whiz, looks like they were. The offense is herky-jerky, disjointed without him, and one would think that this wouldn’t be a problem as long as you have a reliable backup point guard. Oh wait. We don’t have one of those, because Flip is NOT a pg, and Acie doesn’t get enough decent playing time to be one.

Marvin should have gotten the ball more, and taken more shots. After watching him go to the line for 20 attempts against Charlotte, and start on that path against L.A., all I can say is same ol’, same ol’. We go away from the guys that are doing well.

Josh manned-up big time on the boards, and got some nice blocks, but it wasn’t going to be enough. He ended up shooting over 50% from the field again, but also matched Joe with 3 turnovers. Man, has he got to improve that free throw shooting…

Acie didn’t play spectacularly, but he wasn’t bad, either. Didn’t shoot well, but collected 8 points and 6 assists, with 2 turnovers (yes, that’s a 3-to-1 ratio). He did look out of sync with the team defensively at times, but that can be improved with…oh, do I really have to say it? One thing is for certain - nobody ran him into the ground. Baron Davis and Eric Gordon had pedestrian numbers between them, combining for 24 points and 11 assists. Say what you want, but that’s decent individual defense. And Acie certainly played better than Flip did. As others have already mentioned, he had the “best” +/- rating of all the starters, for what that’s worth. I’d like to see him in this role for a second or third game though, as that would give us a better idea of what he’s capable of.

Bottom line: we got outscored in every quarter, and the energy was often not there.

Highlights include dunks by Marvin and Josh, blocks by Josh (rejecting a Thornton dunk attempt), and that’s about it…

By ray

February 8, 2009 8:09 AM | Link to this

Big Ump,

It wasn’t an indictment of you, man. Sorry if it sounded like a retort or something along those lines. I was just saying how several of us hit different points, that’s all. Your point was as valid as anybody else’s, and not everybody said the same thing. I knew what you were trying to get across, I just remarked that it was true that nobody had mentioned it prior to you, and that this was a good contribution to a shared perspective. You’re right though- some people never seem to say anything but negative, unbalanced stuff.

Kirk,

Yeah, I knew it was you, but didn’t see the point in needling you for posting under a different name. I guess I wasn’t feeling as deviant as usual (go figure). As far as my disclaimer, I used that terminology because I knew good and damn well that it was a disclaimer, lol! And I knew people like you would not miss it, either! Besides, I had to say it just in case Law played absolutely awful. I knew I’d be taking some heat/noise for it, if that happened.

As it is, I would like to see him in last night’s role for say, 2 or 3 more games. That is very unlikely to happen unless Bibby is out that much longer (which is not something I really wish for), but it’s a much better opportunity for Law, and it’s a chance to see if he can be worth something, as you said.

Hell yeah, Stoudamire would have looked good against the Clips tonight. Probably would’ve scored like, 36 on those guys (as opposed to Josh getting 16, and Marvin getting 17, for a combined 33 points). But to be fair and balanced, I have to ask the flip-side question: Would Stoudamire’s presence have affected our defense positively? Or would the Clips still have torched us in the paint?

Here’s a sickening analogy (that’s not all that good, but what the heck): Let’s say we traded Marvin and Josh for Stoudamire, and Stoudamire gets 40 points against the Clips for us. That’s an increase of 7 points over the combined contribution of Marvin and Josh, which means we lose by 17 instead of 24….unless of course, Stoudamire’s impact on defense is so great that the game is much closer. Not an argument in the grand scheme of whether or not to try to acquire Stoudamire, just a thought…

But I definitely agree with the idea that neither Horford nor Smith have Stoudamire’s offensive ability. As I said before, dude is still averaging all-star level numbers, despite being supplanted in the post by Shaq.

Hawkeye,

That was me that posted the dangers of having Bibby out with an injury (several times a little while ago) , but I’m sure I wasn’t the only one to say so. As you say, we have issues with the offense without him. The game is not as smooth. And sure as sh!t, it was evident with Josh running the break again, though he did more good than harm in the process. Even then, it was like we were in slow motion half the night.

That still does not excuse the defensive effort, though the Clippers were clearly on fire from the start.

By ray

February 8, 2009 8:20 AM | Link to this

Sixers beat the Heat last night. These guys look better on paper with Brand, but did I NOT say they are MORE DANGEROUS without him?

Talk about a good balance of starters/reserves. These guys had 9, that’s right 9 guys play 20 minutes or more, and ended up with 7 of those guys scoring in double figures, including Royal freakin’ Ivey. Wow. I’m telling you, watch these guys make a push. They’re now 25-24, one game behind the Heat, who they just beat last night. Will they overtake us? I’m not going that far just yet, but with 32 games left, we don’t exactly have a thick cushion under our butts…

In other news, I see Detroit put Milwaukee down in an overtime shoot-out. Hmmph.

By hawkeye

February 8, 2009 8:54 AM | Link to this

ray, yeah i remember you posting that comment in the past blogs. i have to agree that our offense looked bad without him. alot of posters here complains about his ability to dish out assists and says that he is a score first pg and doesn’t pay much attention in passing the ball. bibby is not really a play maker who creates shot s for his teammates but rather a floor general who place his teammates in their sweet spot where they can be most effective. we really missed that one tonight. i also mentioned about the screens that he provides to make those mismatches for jj (remember the cavs game). i think jj could’ve scored more if bibby was there. its kinda weird to see your pg making screens for his bigger teammates but it was proven effective. i hope acie will be able to find the confidence that he once had in the preseason. we really need him especially in these kind of situation.

By hawkeye

February 8, 2009 9:07 AM | Link to this

ray, i was able to catch that game. sessions looked really solid out there scoring and dishing out assists 40+ pts (with good FG%) 10+ asst. charlie was hot these past few games. i think he could’ve been a great factor of winning the game if he was not fouled out in the OT. this is the bucks team that is playing without their 2 starters (redd, bogut). i think they can be a great threat in the east if their starting five is healthy.

By ILL-logical

February 8, 2009 9:31 AM | Link to this

Two major points jumped out to me in last night’s game:

1. Acie has not been developed to the point (pun intended) were he can contribute significantly.

2. Clunkers happen;but they present an opportunity for the bench to get major burn. I have to disagree with Coach Woodson’s use of the bench.Everyone on the bench should have played more and Joe should have played a lot less time,if at all.

   PS. Bibby would not made a great deal of difference because BD would not have gotten those 2 quick fouls and probably lit Bibby up early. Instead of a 20 plus margin of victory it might of been 10-14 points.

And Coach Woodson,PLEASE we know you are not going to change your offensive strategy but try to adjust your on court demeanor. The standing and glaring throughout the game is a distraction and not a positive influence on the players and the flow of the game. If you want to make a point, then stand up at that point, otherwise sit down and let the players play. You are losing the team’s as well as the fans’ respect with the constantly angry routine.I hope you react to this as a positive suggestion.

By stendec

February 8, 2009 9:40 AM | Link to this

Will not post again for a long time. Lost fire for sports. Only son of niece murdered. The Heavenly angel was only a few months old.

A parting gift for all my Hawk friends. Yes, I said friends:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Pete-Maravich-Pictorial

“There’s a place…where I can go…when I feel low…when I feel blue…when I’m alone.” The Beatles.

God bless.

By doc

February 8, 2009 9:58 AM | Link to this

my condolences stendec. life cant be put into reasonable terms sometimes. be back

By Ben

February 8, 2009 10:35 AM | Link to this

* WHERE THE HELL IS SPEEDY CLAXTON? A PULLED HAMSTRING KEEPS YOU OUT ALL YEAR? LOL WHAT A PATHETIC JOKE YOU ARE. YOU ARE A FREAKING FRAUD WHO IS STEALING OUR MONEY. GIVE OUR OWNERS THEIR MONEY BACK AND GO SCREW OVER ANOTHER TEAM, YOU FRAUD *

By darrell starks

February 8, 2009 11:12 AM | Link to this

JAMAL ANDERSON EX FALCON RUNNING BACK SHOULD BE ASHAME OF HIM SELF HE GOT CAUGHT WITH DOPE WHAT A TRUE ROLE MODEL . GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Sautee

February 8, 2009 11:50 AM | Link to this

y’all stop shouting, please

By Sautee

February 8, 2009 11:59 AM | Link to this

stendec

God, that’s awful. my condolences.

And thanks for the trip down Maravich memory lane. I’ll ALWAYS wonder, how he’d be viewed today if David Thompson and Marvin Barnes had signed with the Hawks instead of the ABA?

And just how many passes of his went off Bellamy’s brick hands?

it was his sad fate to never have a team with “finishers”. What a waste. Best passer EVER.

By Sautee

February 8, 2009 12:27 PM | Link to this

kirknga

About this: “If nothing else this game underscores just how important Bibby is to this team.Someone earlier this week seem to imply that Bibby’s importance to the offense could easily be replaced especially with a PG who was better defensively. I think we can say that this game questions the soundness of that idea.”

Kirk, you KNOW I’m a Bibby fan, and yes it was obvious that they missed him, but I’d say it’s dicey using just one game to evaluate whether that idea is sound. (And yes, you implied as much saying “this game” and “questions”).

Last night’s game was colored by Joe’s return, and of course Woody was going right back to Iso Joe early, when it was obvious that JJ still had some rust. It would have been VERY interesting to see what might have happened if Joe had NOT come back last night.

The BIGGEST problem last night was a lack of defensive intensity, especially inside. As much as I love Bibby, I don’t think he would have helped THAT aspect very much.

By cp

February 8, 2009 1:21 PM | Link to this

stendec I send my condolences.

When your front court is dominated like ours was last night, having Bibby would not have mattered unless he can guard big men now…. For some reason Thornton always gets his grown man on against us.. Like many of us feared when JJ came back Marvin faded into the back instead of staying aggressive. JJ should not have played anyway but I guess the coach forgot that JJ has already made the all star roster. What we saw out of Law is what happens when you don’t get consistent minutes then thrown into the rotation, you look very unsure. He had a decent game but when Bibby comes back and he goes back to playing 6 minutes here and 10 minutes there then it wont even matter.

By Clyde

February 8, 2009 1:41 PM | Link to this

Here is the bottom line.

*We got beat in the middle last night *

Our frontline players did not show up for last night’s game. Camby, Zach Randolph, and Thorton accounted for 72 points last night. Most of them were in the paint.

The question is now will the players that gave up all those points be held accountable for their poor performance.

This has been a problem for the Hawks for years now. It seems to me Jsmooth is the only one that offers any resistance in the paint.

Last night there were several times I saw Horford, Zaza, and Solomon Jones either slap at the ball or move out of the way when someone drove the lane. This has happened before but it seems to me they are not being held accountable.

Last year Horford had a pretty good rookie campaign but this year he has given us close to nothing. He is starting to remind me of Alan Henderson (Hendu Records) early in his career.

So just to sum things up our frontline is soft. Matter of fact its been soft ever since Mutombo left.

The question is will we keep ignoring it or will be do something about it.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 8, 2009 1:51 PM | Link to this

Al Horford barely even played in the 2nd and 3rd quarters yesterday when the Clippers extended their lead. He’s already better at defense and rebounding than Alan Henderson ever was. If you want to point a finger at someone for yesterday’s sorry front court performance, point it at Zaza and to a lesser extent Josh Smith and Marvin Williams.

By O'brien

February 8, 2009 1:58 PM | Link to this

This is exactly why Acie needs consistent PT, even when Bibby is healthy. Acie has been averaging 10.3 minutes per game. With Bibby hurt, Woody was forced to play him 28 minutes last night.

Ray and others on this blog have been saying that Acie needs 15-20 minutes per game, every game. That way, he will be more familiar with the system (whatever that might be), and he needs the time to play through his mistakes.

I hope once Bibby comes back, Woody will still find 15-20 minutes for Acie. He did not have a great game last night, but no Hawk did. Plus Bibby would not have been able to keep up with BD anyway. Overall, Acie did a decent job defensively, and he had 6 assists.

Acie needs PT, and he needs a coach that inspires confidence.

By Ken Strickland

February 8, 2009 2:05 PM | Link to this

SAUTEE-that’s MARVIN WEBSTER not MARVIN BARNES. Don’t forget, we also had JULIUS IRVING under contract and in training camp that same yr. Julius and David would have provided all of the OFF we would have needed, and Marvin would have defended the lane. We lost David because Hawks mgt was too stupid and cheap to sign Monte Towe, his best friend, and Marvin refused to sign because of the way we botched it with DThompson. The ABA threatened to sue the Hawks for signing Julius, and Hawks mgt backed down because they were too scared and stupid to follow through.

There was no way the ABA could have been successful with their challenge. Look at how often they had raided the NBA for players. They had already hit the Hawks franchise for 2 of its star players, Jumping Joe Caldwell and Zelmo Beatty. Was Hawks mgt stupid enough to think the courts would have allowed the ABA to raid the NBA of its star players and not allow the NBA to do the same? Or, were they just too cheap to go through the process. AS YOU CAN SEE, THESE WERE THE ANCESTORS OF THE CURRENT SAASG.

RAY-don’t forget, the Suns were only 2 key injuries(JJ and Amare) from playing in, and possibly winning, 2 NBA championships. Without those two key injuries, you might not be able to say you can’t win an NBA championship with D’Antoni’s system.

By Sautee

February 8, 2009 2:24 PM | Link to this

Ken

LOL, about Webster! Even as I wrote it, I was unsure, but too lazy to stop and look it up. thanks for the correction.

That was a truly sad chapter in franchise history. Coulda had Doc!

And until David Thompson got hurt, he played above EVERYBODY! He was my favorite college player back then, and among my all-time favorites still.

By Captain JJ

February 8, 2009 2:31 PM | Link to this

“It was tough, man,” Johnson said. “I’m still battling a little bit of this cold, but I wanted to be out there for the guys. If I’d have known we were going to stink it up like this, I’d have come in my suit.”

Should the Hawks and their fans be cool with this quote from the captain of your team. JJ is a great player but he is a horrible leader. I wonder what this team would be like if Smith, Williams and Horford had that attitude when they have been hurt.

By Clyde

February 8, 2009 2:40 PM | Link to this

Najeh Davenpoop then why wasn’t Horford playing? If he is so good on the defensive end then why didn’t Woody put him in the game to stop Zach Randolph?

We needed a someone to step up and they didn’t. Stop making excuses.

By Sautee

February 8, 2009 3:15 PM | Link to this

Clyde

They were still limiting Horford’s minutes from his knee injury.

By Clyde

February 8, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this

Excuses Excuses

For the past 5 years all its been excuse after excuse. No one is being held accountable.

By The Truth

February 8, 2009 3:40 PM | Link to this

What a coincidence: Joe Johnson went to University of Arkansas; The University of Arkansas is home to the Razorbacks; A Razorback is a big Hog. Joe Johnson play’s Hog Ball. The obvious question becomes, why didn’t Flip go to University of Arkansas? All kidding aside, offense sells tickets but defense wins games. Enough said

By ray

February 8, 2009 3:47 PM | Link to this

O’brien,

Did you also notice how Woodson constantly berated Acie during the game? I mean constantly. Dude was all over him like he went 2-20 from the field and had 7 turnovers or something. Several times I saw Acie trying to talk to him, pointing at things on the court, only to have Woodson cut him off with an angry gesture, sometimes turning away from him altogether. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I also did not like what I was seeing.

I’m not having a pity party for the guy, but geez. You’d think he was destroying the team for all the grief he was getting.

Captain JJ,

Or whoever you are….that’s a disturbing quote. A very disturbing quote. Not what you want to hear form your leader, team captain, and best player. I really don’t know what to say that wouldn’t cause my likeness to be burned in effigy here…

Ken,

True, very true. D’Antoni’s system is powerful. But I still say that Management above him is what helped him out of the door. I understand that Shaq was brought in to solidify the middle, but it changed the way his team plays, and in the end…he didn’t know what to do with Shaq and ended up getting out-coached by Poppovich in that last game. The Spurs got to the basket, something I thought Shaq was brought in to stop…but Shaq wasn’t in the game in the last minute or two when it all went down.

This is no indictment of D’Antoni. Key injuries have indeed derailed some things for him and the Suns. But I think things were headed in a different direction, one D’Antoni did not like. And I doubt that Stoudamire was a part of that. As I said earlier, somebody was going to give him a job. Chicago tried to, among other teams. New York got the lucky draw (well, it wasn’t luck), and Donnie Walsh is no dummy. I’d keep a close eye on NY in the next few years…

Clyde,

Come on man. You know Horford is being worked back into the rotation slowly. He often doesn’t play for the better part of a quarter or two, and isn’t back to full strength yet. Seems we learned from bringing back Smith too soon, and too aggressively, which hampered his ability to contribute in the usual fashion. He admits that he STILL doesn’t feel the same, though it may be more mental than physical at this point (judging by some plays he has made in recent games).

Besides, who are you going to suggest. Sean Williams again? Please don’t…

By Clyde

February 8, 2009 3:59 PM | Link to this

I suggest anyone who can play interior defense Ray.

And Ray answer this question for me. Who is to blame for our poor performance on the inside last night?

Accountability

By ray

February 8, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this

Clyde, our defense was awful everywhere last night. The Clips shot 57% from the field. I hold the Hawks accountable. Not just Horford.

By Clyde

February 8, 2009 4:19 PM | Link to this

72 points from the Clips starting frontline Ray.

By Ken Strickland

February 8, 2009 4:26 PM | Link to this

RAY-I agree. Kerr isn’t very insightful. He felt the Suns had to get bigger and stronger in the middle to compete for a title. The move didn’t work, so D’Antoni became the scapegoat. He didn’t seem to realize that his team was successfully beating the crap our of teams loaded with BIGS during the regular season. They didn’t need more size in the middle, they needed more size at PF. Kerr messed up when he let Tim Thomas get away. He should have started Thomas at PF and moved Marion to SF. That lineup would have lost nothing in 3pt shooting and would have been a bigger and better rebounding team.

It would have been a better move to acquire a shotblocker, like say Mutombo, to come off the bench and provide size and DEF. Kerr seems to be trying to make his mark as a GM, since he played 3rd fiddle his entire career, especially with the Bulls and Spurs. He seems to be preparing to do to the Suns what Bulls mgt did to he and that championship Bulls team he was on.

By Joakim Noah and Sean Williams

February 8, 2009 4:28 PM | Link to this

We think Clyde should be held accountable for thinking we were legitimate NBA players.

Roll Tide! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

By cp

February 8, 2009 4:38 PM | Link to this

Im shocked that none of our players have went “Sprewell” on Woodson. It’s been times the camera is on him and you see the players trying to talk to him and all he does is cut them off and yell some more. JJ does complain a lot. If its not about the roster its about young guys not doing this or doing that. Well JJ why don’t you step up and be a leader and stop crying to the paper about what upsets you. Why don’t you get on somebody a* on the court when they are not playing up to your standards. If you got a problem with something pull that guy to the side and talk to them. Forget all this crying to the paper when something does not go your way. Step up and be a leader.

By bigdave

February 8, 2009 5:32 PM | Link to this

Aye Clyde… good ole Hendu huh…? goggles and all… o, the glory days…

earlier in this blog i gave him at best a Dale Davis, or Antonio Davis…

By ray

February 8, 2009 5:45 PM | Link to this

Clyde,

True. An ailing Horford and two small forward types in Josh Smith and Marvin Wiliams, along with Zaza Pachulia. Who are YOU holding accountable, exactly? Besides your favorite target, Horford.

OH, and I see you dance around the facts of your beloved Sean Williams sent down to the D-league because he was sooooooooo good, then sent back up because they couldn’t stand the disruptiveness he was causing. Oh, and it wasn’t in the paint. It was in the locker room.

One more time. Who are YOU holding accountable for this one game, in which you so conveniently chose to comment on? Funny, didn’t hear much from you all the other times these guys have held it together in the paint, including a 5-block performance from Smith a game ago…

By ray

February 8, 2009 5:51 PM | Link to this

Screamed for a long time that Horford is a power forward, not a center. How we’re holding Horford accountable for that, I’ll never understand.

Horford can be better than Dale or Antonio, but he has to be used properly. Having said that, I wait for a single person here to tell me they wouldn’t be GLAD to have a young Dale Davis or Antonio Davis. Or have we forgotten how good those guys played down low?

By ray

February 8, 2009 6:01 PM | Link to this

CP,

I don’t want to start a dog pile on the man, and they’re all grown men on that sideline. But I see the same stuff. On the flip side, JJ does complain. He’s not a whiner per se, but when he does talk, it can get interesting. Last year it was the young’uns running wild. Well, with added veterans, what is it now? I know I’ve seen Flip run pretty wild myself, including a couple of “run down the court and shoot a couple 3s before the rest of the team can even get there” instances. JJ is a great guy, and great player. I see a bit of a trend with him, but I’m not saying too much right now. There are other problems at work here, more critical ones. All the same….you don’t hear stuff like this from guys like Wade…

Even the “quiet” guys like Tim Duncan take guys aside. But I’m not here to hate on JJ. He doesn’t deserve it. Stil, that comment was not something I wanted to hear out of him. “Had I known we were going to stink this bad, I’d have come in a suit” ? Wow…

Ken,

I’m not sure what Kerr is up to now. The latest is that they are trying to shed payroll. Who knows. But things don’t look bright and cheery right now, I know that. I agree that Kurt Thomas was a good guy to keep around, and that he would have been more effective in stints at starting PF, not coming off the bench behind Stoudamire. After all, he’s smaller and far less offensively potent. Not a great move, but hey, I’m neither coach nor gm.

By O'brien

February 8, 2009 6:59 PM | Link to this

Ray

Whenever they showed Woody, he always looks so angry at Acie. Does he not realize that he is part of the problem why Acie has not developed? But yet if Flip turns the ball over on consecutive possessions, it’s all good.

I was watching the Spurs/Celtics today, and the commentators were raving about how Rivers and Poppovich are great at developing the bench and instilling confidence. If only Woody could learn from guys like that. Watching that game, it was great to see ball movement, offensive sets, defensive sets, and leadership, which the Hawks lack.

The Hawks have a long long way to go as long as Woody remains the coach, and he will always find excuses. Last year, he said we were young, and this year he is going to say that we have been dealing with injuries. Talk is cheap Woody!

By BA

February 8, 2009 8:01 PM | Link to this

Ray and O’Brien (my favorite Maddux catcher from back in the day), I saw Woodson’s tirades as well. And to be sure, with that chrome dome and the Miyagi beard, the guy looks like a class A old school azzhole.

However,

We just don’t know the other side. For all we know, Law could be the biggest jerk in the world, as stubborn as a fifteen year old. Hell, it COULD be that Law was Woody’s pick, and this staff has spent countless hours with Law and he still isn’t doing what they want.

Anybody ever see the Zenmaster in the middle of the third quarter with his team down 20? Or how about Brown the other night, barking and screaming? I want a coach that has that passion- it’s the same as when Marvin fouls the ish out of Felton, and they’re slamming beers at the shoe show later.

The same thing with Johnson- we don’t see him getting on guys on the court (though Smith has never shied away from it) but for all we know, he could be just as effective (maybe more so) if he did it off camera- guys will always respect that more.

It’s all speculation on our part.

Clyde, Ray has got you pegged on this one- the whole team got lit up last night, inside and out- the Clippers put on a clinic, and that kid Thorton couldn’t have been happier to show out for his folks. Randolph and Camby appear to have a nice chemistry down there, if that’s possible with Z-Bo.

Atlanta still should have won that game, considering Law was passable and Marvin’s ressurgence. But Horford is hardly alone on this one.

By Clyde

February 8, 2009 8:02 PM | Link to this

Ray I hold Zaza, Horford, Solomon, and Jsmooth accountable for last nights showing. I’m not afraid to call people out like some people on this blog.

The bottom line is when we play against tall ftrontlines we get dominated. This is nothing new. Its been happenning ever since Mutombo left.

When Mutombo was here he would dominate the paint with his defensive presence by himself. People thought twice about coming down the lane. Now people drive the lane with ease and we offer no resistance.

Ok Sean Williams and Noah maybe having bad years but so is Horford. Those players were an option because we had a hole in the middle. Those options may not have worked out but Horford ain’t working either.

But here is the deal. We have Horford but still need a defensive presence. Something has to be done about our frontline. It maybe the worst in league.

Being that I’m a Alabama fan I expect the teams I support to compete for a championship year end and year out. With our frontline the Hawks can only compete for a first round win in the playoffs. And to make it so bad some people are happy with that.

I’m not. The Hawks need to get to a point where they want to compete for a championship. That is achieved by addressing your team’s weaknesses. Not ignoring it for 10 years.

We needed a center when we drafted Horford not a power forward!!

By Clyde

February 8, 2009 8:07 PM | Link to this

Woody has an excuse for everyday of the year.

Like I said I ain’t afriad to call people out. If anyone in the Hawks organization doesn’t want to be called out then get on your job.

By ant banks

February 8, 2009 8:12 PM | Link to this

Dear Acie Law IV,

Hold your head-up!! Don’t worry about this idiot coach that is stiflin’ your career. Jordan went thru it, so did Shaq,in the beginning of their careers. Continue to hone your skills and be ready when your name is called. The world is watchin’ how Mike Woodson is treatin’ you and they are also watchin’ how your react. Right now, you are lookin’ like the bigger person. Don’t worry, he will be gone by this time next year.

P.S.

If you ever get down and out, just look at the highlights of Texas A&M march thru the NCAA tournament from 3 years ago. You were ballin’ outta control.

Sincerely,

Anthony J. Banks

By bigdave

February 8, 2009 8:59 PM | Link to this

Hey Ray,

By bigdave

February 7, 2009 5:47 PM | Link to this

i mean.. i think even with the opportunities.. i dont see that in Al.. like i see Al as a Dale Davis type.. i mean.. rebound solid d… nothing too much… at best an Antonio Davis… i mean, thats not to say you dont need those type players… because they are rare… a nice throwback player..

but, man… Amare… he’s a freaking animal… couple that with Joe, Josh, Marvin… Bibby bop.. feeeeeeeeeeeeewww…. an Acie Law… i could see it now, Acie with the blow by, and hand off to Amare for the nasty yolk…

By ray

February 8, 2009 10:25 PM | Link to this

bigdave,

You know what man, I feel you!

Clyde,

The worst front line in the league? Come on, man!! And we don’t always get dominated by taller front lines. Charlotte didn’t beat us down, did they? They’re bigger than ever with the 7-foot Diop in there, next to Okafor at that.

I know we need some size, but the worst front line in the league? Man, I want so badly to name the number of teams with front lines that are not only NOT better, but WORSE.

As for Horford vs. Noah vs. Williams:

Horford: Injured for 12 games. Trying to work himself back into the game. Better stats than either Noah or Williams.

Noah: Can’t seem to stay in the starting lineup.

Williams: On his way out of the league after ignominously being sent down to the D-league.

No comparison. I’d be glad to pair Noah in the frontcourt wth Horford, or have him as backup. But neither one of those guys is better in the frontcourt than Horford. I’ll stand by that.

By Ken Strickland

February 9, 2009 1:01 AM | Link to this

OBRIAN-Woodson is a creature of habit and he feels comfortable doing what he’s seen done to others and himself by his mentors, Bobby Knight and Larry Brown. Both HC’s have been successful and believe in having total control and being extremely hard on younger players. He played high school, college and professional ball in Indiana, in the shadow of his primary mentor and former college HC, BKnight. He doesn’t know or trust any other way to get the job done.

In the military, individuals are given respect based on what’s on their shoulders or lapel, more than what’s between their ears. Since Knight, Brown and Woodson embace the military approach, they all psychologically assign rank to their players. That’s why veteran players get a pass while younger less experienced players are dress down and held accountable for everything they do. For people like them, there has to be someone available to be their escape goat. They have to transfer their own insecurities, shortcomings and responsibility for what’s happening, or not happening, to someone. So, why not target the youngest, least experienced and most vulnerable players.

Woodson isn’t going to change. He’ll continue to target younger players like SStaudemire, ALaw, SJones and RMorris, while anything done by veteran players will go unquestioned and unpunished, unless that veteran player rubs him the wrong way like Zaza did last yr.

By Sautee

February 9, 2009 10:41 AM | Link to this

new blog up