Hawks

By E. G.

January 9, 2009 5:20 PM | Link to this

Maybe Detroit didn’t endeaver to keep Flip Murray because he has never been a good foul shooter.

If Flip were playing against me in the fourth quarter, I would definitely foul him almost every time he’d drive to the basket in a tight game with only a few minutes left.

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK GUYS.

We need to start playing guys who can hit free throws.

By Ariose

January 9, 2009 5:30 PM | Link to this

Mark my words. We are about to seriouly go streaking. Looking at the schedule, even though most is on the road this is clearly the easiset stretch of our schedule coming up.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By G Money

January 9, 2009 5:49 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou,

I sure hope that you’re right. That was a pitiful game on Wednesday. These guys have the goods. They just have to bring it. We also have to find a solution to the foul shooting yips. That I just don’t understand.

By doc

January 9, 2009 6:39 PM | Link to this

didnt the celts think the same thing about two or so weeks, three games out west with only portland to worry about and now have lost their steam and lost 5 of 7 or so? we actually are heading into the most vulnerable stretch for the hawks this year ariose. there looks to be 16 of their next 24 games on the road until march. i hope they are 25 and 14 when the middle of this month gets here. it will be tough sledding otherwise.

By rms

January 9, 2009 6:39 PM | Link to this

Dang, did I really call AC garbage. I think I meant S. Claxton, I mean CHIRP….right Manny T.

By Arsheezy!

January 9, 2009 7:01 PM | Link to this

SS:

I see you boyeee!

I can imagine the tongue-lashing Woody gave the crew at practice.

Gotta get this one back tonight!

Arsheezy!

By rms

January 9, 2009 7:16 PM | Link to this

Who is Ms. Tamryn Hall?? Memo to the Hawks…STOP SHOOTING JUMP SHOTS!!

By Sekou K. Smith

January 9, 2009 7:25 PM | Link to this

Well, it’s clear yelling at them didnt work. Woodson better move on to Plan B, because this one is already out of hand (22-6 and counting). I just don’t see how the Hawks figure to have any chance against this team in a half court game. There’s no way it works out for them in a game like that.

By jerry

January 9, 2009 7:28 PM | Link to this

I can’t see the game, but from the score on espn, something is not right.

Are the Hawks playing as bad as the score indicates?

By Sekou K. Smith

January 9, 2009 7:28 PM | Link to this

Al Horford just took a nasty finger to the eye from Howard with 4:51 to play in the first and the Hawks down 25-10. But he’s up and on the bench trying to get things straightened out.

By richbrave

January 9, 2009 7:30 PM | Link to this

doc:

Critter gets a thumbs up from TAP. “I thought he grew up tonight” is the quote from the WIZARDS WASHINGTON POST blog. Now SMOLTZ ‘s situation doesn’t faze this old dog, and J-CRIT doesn’t either. Wait and see, TAP before anointing JAVARIS the second coming of CHRIS PAUL. Wait and see.

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 9, 2009 7:34 PM | Link to this

Orlando is shooting 91%.

Even if you are a high school team you shouldn’t be giving up that kind of percentage.

What the hell.

Zaza for MVP?

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 9, 2009 7:39 PM | Link to this

“Hawks are trying to find some kind of answer here…” —Dominique Wilkins

ACIE LAW?!?!?!!??!?!?!?!

By Mychelfromatl

January 9, 2009 7:43 PM | Link to this

Okay pranks over, it’s not funny anymore. Who kidnapped the 2008-09 Hawks and replaced them with the 2003-04 team.

By Mychelfromatl

January 9, 2009 7:45 PM | Link to this

Zaza seriously can’t mean that much to this team. If so get this man a lifetime contract now!!!!!!!!!

By Sautee

January 9, 2009 7:46 PM | Link to this

Najeh

LOL, then he said: When one team scores 41 points in a quarter there’s not much defense bein’ played.

Really Nique?

By ES

January 9, 2009 7:47 PM | Link to this

I think its clear there’s some separation b/w our young Hawks and Orlando. They come to play every game, and we don’t.

Woody is making a statement by benching half the starting line-up.

To be down to the same team by over 20 in two consecutive games is inexcusable. Absolutely inexcusable.

By Mychelfromatl

January 9, 2009 7:49 PM | Link to this

Looks like we all will find out about Acie tonight.

By J

January 9, 2009 7:53 PM | Link to this

wow this is not good. these last few games have really not looked good. could this signal a return to the hawks norm? this is sloppy, horrible basketball

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 9, 2009 7:53 PM | Link to this

Well, on the bright side, there are 10 minutes left until Boston-Cleveland starts on ESPN.

As the late great Skip Caray might say, if you promise to patronize the sponsors, you now have permission to go walk your dog.

By justin

January 9, 2009 7:54 PM | Link to this

49-18. I hate to make too much aout of 6 quarters of basketball, but the Hawks better make a trade before the deadline if they want to become real contenders in the East. And the bench ought to play big minutes tonight or Woodson is an idiot.

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 9, 2009 7:55 PM | Link to this

“LOL, then he said: When one team scores 41 points in a quarter there’s not much defense bein’ played.

Really Nique?”

Yeah haha I heard that too… the quality of play and the quality of analysis is about the same right now.

By Edo River

January 9, 2009 7:56 PM | Link to this

Something good will come out of this……….I hope.d

By Blast

January 9, 2009 7:57 PM | Link to this

Wow! This is way past disgraceful. Never seen a team tank it up so much in a half. Looks like none of the starters, Joe and Josh especially want to play in this game.

I see why Orlando has the record they have, and I see why they feel underated. This team has grown so much better since we played them on opening night. I don’t know if they shoot the ball this well every game or they just have a thing for the Hawks, but my God! Such awesome shooting display these last two games. They play this well all season, then they will give Cleveland and Boston a run for their money come playoffs.

Hawks, play for pride, man.

I feel sorry for Woody on this one.

By justin

January 9, 2009 7:58 PM | Link to this

54-18. What else is to be said?

By Sautee

January 9, 2009 8:00 PM | Link to this

Well, well, Acie does have a shot. Smooth triple from the wing. Bibby set him up wonderfully.

By justin

January 9, 2009 8:01 PM | Link to this

I would return my paycheck after a game like this…

By Sekou K. Smith

January 9, 2009 8:02 PM | Link to this

This is the ugliest half of basketball I’ve seen the Hawks play in quite some time. I wouldn’t even believe it was happening if I wasn’t sitting here watching it for myself. They’re lost out here. And the Magic players are relishing the opportunity to pour it on and make sure the Hawks and everyone else knows that the Southeast Division title isn’t leaving this arena.

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 9, 2009 8:06 PM | Link to this

This game reminds me of the glory days of a few years ago, when Antoine Walker was the Hawks’ leading scorer.

By doc

January 9, 2009 8:06 PM | Link to this

wow ‘nique is saying lets hpe to get it down to user 20 before half to talk about it.

sekou my sentiments exactly, you can beat a dg so many times.

By Eric C.

January 9, 2009 8:07 PM | Link to this

My jaw about fell to the floor when I saw the score just now…I’ve followed the Hawks closely since the mid 80s and this is one of the most ridiculous 2nd qt deficits I’ve seen.

Perhaps this will be one of those cleansing losses, if there is such a thing…sort of like cleaning out your internet cache and doing a defrag to use an analogy.

Anyway…it just wasn’t the Hawks night.

By rms

January 9, 2009 8:07 PM | Link to this

Dang Bibby, I like your aggresiveness but dude your shot aint fallin’ do something else. Why the heck is Law dribbing the ball and hiding in the back of the court. Dude, be aggressive. Penetrate…Do something!!

By doc

January 9, 2009 8:07 PM | Link to this

najeh thanks for the heads up on the espn friday night special.

By Jason

January 9, 2009 8:09 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand the dynamics of professional teams enough, but Sekou?, any chance this is semi-intentional laying down on the coach?

It feels like a revolt of some kind. Any possibility the players are tuning him out?

By doc

January 9, 2009 8:12 PM | Link to this

howard is a throw back to zo at zo’s best. his body even reminds me of him.

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 9, 2009 8:14 PM | Link to this

I have officially changed the channel to Boston-Cleveland, but one last comment on the Hawks game — Acie Law should play every minute of the 2nd half. If he gets into foul trouble, doesn’t matter. He should play every minute at point guard in the 2nd half.

By Sekou K. Smith

January 9, 2009 8:16 PM | Link to this

This is an meltdown of epic proportions folks. Epic. I’m speechless.

By Sekou K. Smith

January 9, 2009 8:19 PM | Link to this

I don’t think this is a revolt at all. I just think these cats are getting that tail smacked by a team itching to do it. The Magic are for real. And they want to make sure the Hawks know it.

By Sautee

January 9, 2009 8:21 PM | Link to this

doc

He’s even thicker than Zo!

By rms

January 9, 2009 8:22 PM | Link to this

Najeh, If AC plays every minute in the 2nd half at the pg position, he is not allowed to dribble the ball across halfcourt and pass it off and then go hide at the corner of the floor. Deal?

By Blast

January 9, 2009 8:24 PM | Link to this

Games like this tells you Al Horford is not a center, but a power forward. He just cannot guard Howard one on one. The Hawks are forced to double, and Orlando knocks down open threes. Then the pick and roll is killing them too. and shooting 26% does not help either.

Why are they playing zone on a team that’s hot from 3? I would rather guard Howard man to man than give up open threes.

Anyway, there is a good one going on on ESPN. Why the Celtics have to whine, moan, groan and b*** on every call when they DID commit the foul?

By justin

January 9, 2009 8:24 PM | Link to this

Seriously, Jason. When a team lays this big of an egg after it gets a tongue-lashing, you gotta wonder if they didn’t mail this in to show up the coach. Then again, no professional wants to get burned this bad by a rival.

By Frank Wren

January 9, 2009 8:25 PM | Link to this

How does Mike Woodson still have a job?

Suckers.

By justin

January 9, 2009 8:30 PM | Link to this

I’d like to hear that half time speech. 38 point half-time deficit. Time to start shopping Bibby and look toward a player that will contribute this year and improve the team for next year? If Bibby demands a big salary at season’s end and we get nothing for him, we will be worse next year, not better. The Hawks have a lot of potential but there’s no reason to believe that they’re going to win the chamionship this year.

By Bowdler for 3

January 9, 2009 8:32 PM | Link to this

I may be channeling my frustration with this game towards the announcing, but…..it’s bad enough listening to Nique’s comments when we’re winning games, but the mixture of his “analysis” and this bludgeoning is bringing tears to my eyes. Reminds me of why the Stinger/Rathbun team was so refreshing….games like this were the norm a few yrs back and they made them tolerable, if not enjoyable. There’s no escaping the brutality now.

So THAT’S what Othello Hunter looks like standing upright?

By Da Real Real

January 9, 2009 8:33 PM | Link to this

Disappointed doesn’t even describe how I feel about this game. I just don’t really know what to say about this performance.

I’m more curious to see who people try and point the finger too when its clear that the Hawks, as a team, is getting beat and beat badly. I highly underestimated Orlando - I now know why they have only 8 losses this year. The major difference I know right off the bat with this team is that they have a true offensive scheme and they have the pieces to fit their scheme. Motion offense, with pick and rolls, and plus that inside - out game…..we need to take a few pages out of their playbook huh…

By E. G.

January 9, 2009 8:34 PM | Link to this

I have a couple things to say guys.

You notice all the other teams starting point guards have speed, can create of the dribble, and shoot the ball, but Mike Bibby is too slow and can “only” shoot. Bibby can’t even dribble around Reddick. That leaves us with only Joe Johnson who they double team every time he gets the ball. And because we don’t have any starters who can truly post up, we are left with Bibby jacking up fade away outside shoots because he can create any room between himself and the defender.

MARK MY WORDS: We will “not” beat the Majic the rest of this season until we find a point guard for our starting rotation who’s quick, can shoot, and dish out assists; that is the type of point guard Joe Johnson needs. Bibby is not the answer against the Orlando Magic because he is toooooooooooooh slow.

You notice that when Law came in the game, even though I have not seen how well he can shoot, he had not problem beating Nelson off the dribble. Bibby is not a true point guard. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, if a team does not have true post up players, then they better have a point guard who is quick and an accurate shooter along with a shooting guard, like Joe Johnson, who can shoot and create off the dribble.

By Jason

January 9, 2009 8:35 PM | Link to this

I’m sure there are plenty historical examples of teams laying down to prove a coach’s impotence, but it is hard to imagine men with enough ego and pride to get to this level letting themselves be shown up like this.

They are certainly not responding to Woodsen though. I mean it’s hard to believe the Magic are REALLY this much better and it’s easy to jump to the conclusion after the description of the rough practice. Does it make any sense that such attention would make things WORSE?

By rms

January 9, 2009 8:38 PM | Link to this

NO, the question is why do YOU still have a job Frank Wren?

By Blast

January 9, 2009 8:41 PM | Link to this

Magic up by 44 and they still have their starters in the game.

Sekou is so worked up he can’t even spell right!

Yes, the Magic are for real.

By Chea

January 9, 2009 8:47 PM | Link to this

i wonder if we ever lost this bad in the 13-69 season…

By Macaroni Tony

January 9, 2009 8:48 PM | Link to this

when bibby does good then we praise him but one bad game then we want to trade him… I swear that atlanta don’t have true fans.. Yes we may lose this game by alot, but it will be only one lose. Learn from this bad a* game and then move on…

By terrell barron

January 9, 2009 8:50 PM | Link to this

Sund cant be happy. Wow!

By terrell barron

January 9, 2009 8:56 PM | Link to this

Down by 50 freakin points. Fire Woody!

By Sautee

January 9, 2009 9:01 PM | Link to this

justin

about this: I’d like to hear that half time speech. 38 point half-time deficit. Time to start shopping Bibby and look toward a player that will contribute this year and improve the team for next year?

Whoa boy, whoa!

One bad game and you wanna trade Bibby?

Were you ready to trade him last Saturday when he hit the game-winner?

We’re still 22-13 after this game, probably 5th in the conference. If someone had told us before the season that by Jan 8th we’d be 22-13 and 5th, I think anyone on the blog would have said “I’ll take it!”.

By Don Waddell

January 9, 2009 9:01 PM | Link to this

I know a good coach when I see one: Mike Woodson for COY!!!!

Suckers.

By Da Real Real

January 9, 2009 9:04 PM | Link to this

Well it looks like Frank Wren answered my question. No wonder the Braves are having as many problems as they are…he’s too busy participating on a hawks blog lol - hilarious stuff.

On to real news..

yeah Macaroni i said this after we lost the first time to the Magics earlier this week - it’s easier for fans to find at least one person to blame than actually say that the other team beat us which has clearly happened the past two nights. The Hawks did not lay down tonight to prove a point..we just got beat by another team. I tell you, if the Hawks did lay down tonight then we don’t need any of these players.

The Magics have clearly sent a message and I hope that the Hawks players remember this and use this for emotion. Remember how the Magics have clearly wanted to run up the points by leaving their starters in a ball game that they are going to win and are winning by 40+ points. They need to use this to get that same emotion they use to play against the Celtics.

By Macaroni Tony

January 9, 2009 9:06 PM | Link to this

Every team will have a losing game like this, man we have to keep our heads up and understand that this is our team and we have to stick with this team..

By terrell barron

January 9, 2009 9:07 PM | Link to this

Once again, then Hawks get off to a good start, and fool us into thinking they’re a different team this year. And I fell for it. Whatever!!! How embarrasing. Fire Woody! This is unexceptable. Period. Especially when you just played the same team 2 days ago.

By bigdave

January 9, 2009 9:15 PM | Link to this

my feelings exactly E.G. he has no ability to take anyone off the dribble anymore… this is what the results will continue to be because you will not i repeat will not be able to shoot well every night. like i said in a previous post. we have developed bad habits.. everyone on this team thinks they can shoot, and we have a coach that believes it too.. and ive never been (still not) a woodson hater. We lack the ability to get easy buckets; and nobody seems to care. exploited big time tonight lack of size, predictable offensive scheme.

if you think Bill Walton was bull shyttin in his assessment of us you’re living in fantasy land…

By John Drew

January 9, 2009 9:16 PM | Link to this

The problem with the Hawks tonight is they were up late last night watching the National Championship game with me. They’ll be ready on Sunday. Mark my words.

By Thomas Dimitroff

January 9, 2009 9:18 PM | Link to this

Dontcha wish your GM was HOT. LIKE. ME??

Suckers.

By rms

January 9, 2009 9:25 PM | Link to this

I would hold off on the Fire Woody and trade Bibby anthem until I see them go on a streak of inconsistent awful play. I aint a fan of Woody either, but I wont call them out just yet after the worst loss in recent memory. Its just one game. Lets see what happen the next game.

By John Schuerholz

January 9, 2009 9:31 PM | Link to this

My kind of coach, my kind of team!

Wren, get back in there are get Andruw to that 10-year deal signed POST HASTE! That’s an ORDER!!!!!!!!!!!

By Macaroni Tony

January 9, 2009 9:32 PM | Link to this

I think those bad calls took the Hawks out of this game early, but I feel sorry for the next team because we are going to make a statement…

By Rick Sund

January 9, 2009 9:32 PM | Link to this

Are you watching this Cavs-Celtics game??!!!

Now THAT’S what I call BASKETBALL!!!

Suckers.

By Sekou K. Smith

January 9, 2009 9:33 PM | Link to this

The Hawks better hope they wake up from this nightmare in time for Sunday’s game against Philly.

Never seen anything like this before. Simply stunning. Stunning.

By Macaroni Tony

January 9, 2009 9:33 PM | Link to this

I agree with you rms

By Ted Turner

January 9, 2009 9:33 PM | Link to this

Miss me?

By Rick Sund

January 9, 2009 9:38 PM | Link to this

John Schuerholz I like your style. I like your moves.

By Justin

January 9, 2009 9:39 PM | Link to this

Sautee, Thanks for bringing that up. I don’t put this loss on Bibby for sure. I think he’s a good point guard and he’s definitely made the Hawks better. I wouldn’t trade him based upon one bad game. My point is that if the Hawks don’t resign Bibby (and I saw an article today cnnsi saying that Bibby would probably be looking for $45mil over 5 years), then basically they’re renting his services for this season. I just don’t see the ASG paying the money. Because of his contract he’s our best trade asset. If I’m right about the ASG not re-signing Bibby, then keeping him past the deadline, is basically putting all our money on this season. I just don’t think the current roster is capable of winning the East. So my comments are more to do with a revelation that we are not ready to contend for the East than they are to do with Bibby’s off night.

By O'brien

January 9, 2009 9:40 PM | Link to this

Wow. I did not expect a game like this. I think you have to blame everyone; the entire coaching staff and all the players. This is a total team melt down. Plus I think other teams will look at how the Magic played us, and follow their blue print.

The question now, is how does this team respond to adversity. And what happened to the intensity that we had when the season started?

I agree with a previous blogger that said if Bibby is off, we will be in trouble against good teams who double JJ.

However, we’re not half way through the seaon yet, and I’m still happy to be 22-13.

By cp

January 9, 2009 9:41 PM | Link to this

Pretty pathetic effort tonight… When I saw JJ Redick beating guys off the dribble I knew it was going to be a long night… Law looked pretty good out there.. I just don’t like how he seems to lunge forward and kick his leg with his jumper. When he hit that three his feet were set and his form was nice. I don’t know if he plays many minutes in the next game considering how Woody is very unpredictable…I see why Morris does not play… His defense is atrocious…The game was over when the Hawks woke up this morning.

By rms

January 9, 2009 9:44 PM | Link to this

Whats with all these GM’s posting. No wonder our local organizations are in such disarray!! Look at Woody. Pure example of POBWAF!! (That means P** Off Bald Woody Arms Folded). Got that Sekou!! So much for getting the bench playing time. They are exhausted by now.

By Melvin

January 9, 2009 9:48 PM | Link to this

Just touch down in the ATL and saw the score. What the heck happen???? Man, this make me want to sell my tickets for the 76ers on Sunday….

By Stan Kasten

January 9, 2009 9:51 PM | Link to this

Rick Sund, I hear Darius Miles is avaliable. Trade him for Joe and it’s HELLO NBA TITLE!

LET’S GO NATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Sautee

January 9, 2009 9:54 PM | Link to this

Justin

If they don’t re-sign Bibby (who cost them $15.25M this year), they will have that much more headroom (plus Speedy’s insurance settlement, and possibly plus Zaza and / or Solo’s expiring contracts) to hit the free agent market for a point and a couple of bigs

But you are correct that it’s basically a 1+ year rental if he’s not re-signed.

And no, as currently constituted, they can NOT win the conference.

But Justin, did you actually think before the season started that we could compete for a conference title?

Step by step, my man. Step by step.

By Mike Kryzyzewski

January 9, 2009 9:54 PM | Link to this

TOLD YOU!!!! I TOLD BOUT MY J.J.!!!!!

goes to pay refs for job well done

By Marynell Meadors

January 9, 2009 9:54 PM | Link to this

I know quite a few GIRLS that play better than this…

Suckers.

By Billy Knight

January 9, 2009 9:56 PM | Link to this

Ahhhhhh! Memories….

By Billy Knight

January 9, 2009 9:57 PM | Link to this

What this team lacked tonight was long-armed swingmen.

Suckers.

By Jim Burn is Roaming

January 9, 2009 10:01 PM | Link to this

Wow!! This game is an indictment on Coach Woodson. There is no way that after Wednesday night, they come out and play like this, unless there is mutiny on the bounty.

Coach Woodson was pushing. The players are pushing back.

By Rich McKay

January 9, 2009 10:09 PM | Link to this

Anyone seen Jamaal Anderson?

Time to talk contract extension!

By doc

January 9, 2009 10:10 PM | Link to this

ok tough night, something to help everyone move on.

http://www.asylum.com/2009/01/09/schwing-asylums-year-in-sex/

By Pete Babcock

January 9, 2009 10:11 PM | Link to this

Where’s Danny Manning when we need him?!?!?!?!?!

BAH!

By Jim Harrick

January 9, 2009 10:16 PM | Link to this

We shouldn’t give these guys annnnnnny money

By richbrave

January 9, 2009 10:56 PM | Link to this

doc:

CRITTER sighting. 23:58. 6 points - 3-7 all finishes at the rim-one miss from inside. Outside shots-0 ‘fer. 0 foul shots. One offensive rebound, one dime, two fouls, three steals, 0 TO’s. At least two shut-down defensive plays and at least three deflections-quick hands. The kid has potential. My first hard look at him.

By E. G.

January 9, 2009 11:15 PM | Link to this

Hey MACARONI TONI

You said, “When bibby does good then we praise him but one bad game then we want to trade him.”

My response: The better teams have a better than average post up game (the Hawks post up players aren’t even average) to go along with their good or excellent “guard tandem” (e.g., Mo Williams & Lebron, Nelson & Lee, Rondo & Ray Allen, Iverson & Hamilton, etc.).

If other teams are big at the 3, 4, and 5, they won’t even hesitate make us prove that we can score from the inside because they know we are week. Consequently, they make sure that Joe Johnson doesn’t keep the ball, they don’t worry about Bibby as long as they keep ONE defender in his grill, and then they lick there chops when they see that Al Horford or Josh Smith has to be the man to post up and score around the basket.

We know Acie Law is quick and can create off the dribble, but until we find a point guard (via draft or whatever) who is quick, accurate from the outside, and a true point guard, we will continue to struggle against the better teams because now they have us figured out.

I am not asking for Bibby to be traded, but he is too slow to be our point guard. “Anybody” can check Bibby!

And who do we have on the team who is really a good shooter besides Joe and Marvin? We can’t include Bibby because he is useless because he can’t create any space. However, look at Orlando; four out of their five starters can shoot the heck out of the ball. We beat them the first time we played them, but all that is in the past now. The Orlando Magic has us figured out.

By E. G.

January 9, 2009 11:25 PM | Link to this

Come guys!! I can’t blame Woody this time. Our post up player can’t even shoot. Patrick Ewing had the post up fade away shot, Kareem had the sky hook, Turkalou and Lewis even have post up move and fade away shots, Rasheed Wallace has a consistent turn around shot around the basket, and I could mention many other teams, but what do we have outside of Joe Johnson.

I don’t have any confidence in any of our basketball players on the low block.

IT WASN’T WOODY’S FAULT TONIGHT OR LAST WEDNESDAY; WE JUST DON’T HAVE “ANY” POST UP PLAYERS AGAINST BIGGER TEAMS. OUR BIG MEN JUST CAN’T SHOOT, AND POOR HORFORD IS BEING FORCE TO PLAY OUT OF POSITION BECAUSE WE DON’T HAVE A TRUE BIG MAN WHO CAN BE AN OFFENSIVE THREAT.

By E. G.

January 9, 2009 11:31 PM | Link to this

I APOLOGIZE FOR ALL THE MISSPELLED WORDS.

By RLP

January 9, 2009 11:53 PM | Link to this

I don’t think we should judge Orlando’s game only by looking at what they did to the Hawks. However, having watched the Celtics, Cav’s and Orlando I think they will be in the Eastern Conference finals with the Cav’s. They are definitely among the Eastern elite.

I don’t think tonight is a good time to be passing judgment on the Hawks. I really do not even want to comment on the past two games until we have a little perspective.

What I do want to comment on is the play in the second half after the starters left. That should be the time when we get to see what the second team has. I did not see a second team on the floor tonight. Rather I saw a group of individuals trying to grab some stats. And for that the blame falls squarely on the coaching staff. I saw no coaching going on. I did not see any semblance of a team. It truly was garbage time.

A blowout loss can be dismissed. Hell I remember the Laker’s blowing out the Celts by a huge margin on Memorial day in the first game of a finals back in the 80’s and yet the Celts won the title. Stories in the sports pages referred to the game as a massacre. I am not comparing our Hawks to the Celtics of Bird, Parrish et al. But given what happened on Wednesday night and the lack of intensity early in this game blame can only be pointed toward the coaching staff.

Let’s see what happens on Sunday. Tell Woody that now is when he earns his pay. Coach your second team when you have the opportunity. Get you team ready to play so that they do not now go into a swoon similar to what happened after the Celts stopped the season opening win streak. Many, maybe most, of the people on this blog already think you should be removed. Can you prove them wrong after this disaster?

By E. G.

January 10, 2009 12:07 AM | Link to this

HEY RLP

I forgot to say one more thing. Everytime I see other teams with good three-point shooters scoring on us, it is Bibby who, most of the time, seems to be the one rotating to that person. This also includes the New Jersey game we lost. I’m not blaming everything on Bibby alone, but we have to admit that teams are getting quicker, and we are stuck with Bibby who is a handicap on defense because he is toooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow.

By kirkinga

January 10, 2009 12:17 AM | Link to this

Ugly loss tonight no other way to put, no positive spin can be honestly found to describe tonight’s performance.

I’m not surprised the Hawks lost, I’m surprised about the effort and lack of execution.

Our undersized front court has repeatedly shown to be a weakness that certain teams can easily exploit. I know that’s not an original idea, Ando and others have discussed it at length, but I think it bares repeating as the season progresses.

Could we be in the midst of one of those multigame losing streaks?I see some are back to wanting to trade Bibby again, all I can say did you catch the Houston game?

In pro sports, especially in baseball, hockey, and basketball where there are going to be everything-goes-wrong blowout type games. I’m thinking tonight’s game was of that variety.

Anyway, I see know reason to panic, or to be overly concerned. The Hawks are still exceeding my expectations so I’m not willing to go beyond voicing a profound disappointment in the results of the past two games.

Go Hawks!!

By Ed

January 10, 2009 12:50 AM | Link to this

After seeing how well Acie & Solo played tonight, it is a further indictment against Woody if they both don’t get playing time next game.

By Harry Hawk

January 10, 2009 1:40 AM | Link to this

Damn right, Ed.

It’s easy to say that Acie and Solo played well because the Magic didn’t care. That doesn’t explain why nearly every other Hawks player sucked it hard throughout the game. Acie and Solo came to play. Guys who care in games like that should get regular minutes.

By gypsyjoe

January 10, 2009 1:55 AM | Link to this

I am glad I was at work so I did not have to see my Hawks get worked.I did not think Orlando could kick the crap out of us like that.WOW. I hope this is a frigin wake up call. If The 76’ers stomp the hell out of us I will be worried.

By darrell starks

January 10, 2009 2:10 AM | Link to this

Josh smith stop complaining all the time and do your job your game is inside out dont you no that you can easily become a 20piont a game and 10 rebound a night if you play your game and drive to the basket and stop jacking up three thats not your job i dont care if you hit FITHY THREES IN A ROW YOU DONT PLAY THE THREE POSITION you are a POWER FORD AND if you and alhorford help each other on the boards and box out the BOTH OF YOU CAN BECOME DOMINATE PLAYER and your point production and rebound production will INCREASE ITS UP TO COACH WOODY TO TEACH YOU GUYS HOW TO BOX OUT beacuse you GUYS ARE UNDERSIZE AT THE 4 AND 5 POSITION.GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Hawks Fan In New Orleans

January 10, 2009 2:27 AM | Link to this

I was in the mall food court when I got the final score text from AJC. People must have thought somebody died when I gasped in horror at the final score. Glad I was not there to witness such a disgusting display. Rondo was right, if we play every elite team like we do the Celtics we’d be THAT squad.

By darrell starks

January 10, 2009 2:39 AM | Link to this

I dont no BUT ITS SEEM LIKE we are NOT GETTING ANY PRODUCTION FROM MARVIN WILLIAM at the 3 position WITCH IS THE most important position WHEN IT COME TO SCORING PLUS HE need to help out on the boards TO AND STOP standing around all the TIME AND hustle LIKE HE WAS early in the season when he was snatching rebounds out of the air I DONT SEE THAT ANY MORE ITS SEEM LIKE EVERY BODY is waiting on joe we ARE HURTING AT THE 3 4 5 POSITION YOUR NOT hustling like ZAZA AND THATS THE TRUTH.GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Ariose

January 10, 2009 3:17 AM | Link to this

Loss for words……road woes continue……acie shoud’ve played more………we better re-sign Zaza……We need Manu/Patrick Mills/Beidrinds…….Injuries?………ugh…..

~Sir Links A Lot~

By ray

January 10, 2009 7:26 AM | Link to this

Co-sign what Kirk said.

The world is not at an end at 22-13. We’re still 9 games above .500, which is far more important than one aberration of a game. This was definitely one of those games where nothing goes right, and every team goes through a game like that. Some more than others (would you rather be the OKC Thunder right now?). Even most of the officiating went Orlando’s way (Joe should have been to the line about 7 or 8 times by my count. He only went once).

Besides, we just lost to these guys by only 4 points the night before. We did not suddenly become the awful product we saw last night. No way. If there’s blame to be passed, then everybody can share in it. I wouldn’t lay on Woody too hard though. At least he tried everything he could (or so it seemed), going to the bench early and often. No starter played more than 23 minutes. You know something’s up when Othello Hunter and Mario West get 10+ minutes…

Law played fairly well, gathering 16 points, 3 assists, 1 turnover, 3 boards and going 9-9 from the line in approximately 26 minutes. Solo did just as good, giving us 12 points and 8 rebounds in roughly the same amount of time. Evans played okay, at least hitting 2-3 from beyond the arc, and collecting 6 boards. Murray did not play well. No doubt some will say this was all in garbage time. I say BS. Solo and Acie saw real time minutes against Orlando’s starter and bench, and they came up looking fairly good AGAIN. And we did manage to compete in the third and fourth quarters, although it was way too late.

What’s important now is how we react when we play Philly on Sunday afternoon. This will make all the difference. Orlando beat us down last night, and they got a chance like one they will very likely not get again (and they poured it on, too, smug ba$tards). We’ll get our crack at them again, and show them we’re even better than the team that lost to them by 4 points.

In the meantime, gotta work on the fundamentals, get the confidence back, and execute. Philly is still not where they want to be (though Iguodala is playing better), but they are not going to lay down for us. We have to take this out on somebody, and Philly is the first available victim.

Let’s make it happen!

By ray

January 10, 2009 7:31 AM | Link to this

Watched Toronto dismantle Memphis. Lemme stoke the fires just a bit…Bargnani sure looked good in the middle for Toronto, getting 21 points, 8 boards, and 2 blocked shots. Oh, and he went 3-4 from three point range…

By ray

January 10, 2009 7:36 AM | Link to this

In other news: I enjoyed the hell out of the beating Boston took from Cleveland. Oh yeah…

Looks like Philly may be without Brand when we play them. No matter, as they were tough for us last year without him. And to be honest, I think they are more dangerous from a different standpoint when he’s not there.

By doc

January 10, 2009 8:34 AM | Link to this

ray that “only four point loss” is deceptive. we have been put away over 20 points in less than three quarters on our own court and by 50 points on their home court when our top five and their top five were on the floor. not good.

yes, i can say it doesnt matter and agree whole heartedly with your co-sign of kirk as they have far exceeded my expectations and been very entertaining to boot and i do. at the same time i have been saying in the midst of the hoopla that they are heading into a very big grind of their season where they could go in cold reverse and really struggle as their effort has been what they have been living on, kind of big picture stuff. after all that isnt that what defense requires as well as having no inside presence for easy baskets a whole lot of effort and desire? you may need more than a rotation of eight to do it that way, eh? mentally and physically, to play that way, it is a tougher game. one would expect more of them in light of the fact they had some time off to refresh. so from that perspective i am surprised of the huge discrepancy between the two teams this week.

also, in the midst of the game at home with the magic i had a bit of a discussion with astro and milton. milton had never brought up the subject and it was one discussion i didnt bring on nor did astro. it concerned woody. his opinion was woody could only bring the guys to here, lifting his hand to about three feet off the floor. he also said at some point there was going to be a revolt of the players. woody’s latest rampage didnt work, these guys are men so it isnt a surprise. next time, maybe what he has to say will go in and stick. if it doesnt then the words of milton will prove prophetic.

me, i wont be too hard on thses guys right now. i can only hope they can summon the effort they have shown earlier in the year and continue to come together as a team. something could be missing, will let woody and sund figure it out for now.

in the meantime a lot of work for the vet bibby to get these guys back on the same track as their coach sure didnt do it this week. now it has to come from the locker room.

RB thanks for the update. it will be fun to see how quickly jcrit comes along now that someone is paying attention to him. we may need a little of that here with acie.

By Nate ArchiBALL

January 10, 2009 9:21 AM | Link to this

Have the minutes caught up with Joe?

Last 3 games - 16 out of 45 from the field for a total of 38 points.

Is it the set up offense? The Hawks aren’t running - no easy baskets in transition. Every offensive set is a grind. Woody has taken a athletic group of players and has them playing like a team of 50 year old men in an open recreational league.

By hocker

January 10, 2009 9:31 AM | Link to this

The starters are worn out and the season is only half over. Woody couldn’t coach a bunch of junior high girls. We’lll be lucky to improve on last year’s record.

By ray

January 10, 2009 9:42 AM | Link to this

Doc,

There’s nothing deceptive about it. We could have gotten away with that first game. You could even pin it down to two things: Bibby making that layup late in the game, and the guys hitting just a few more free throws (like Josh hitting all of his). We went on a 21-6 run and damn near got their a*******es. So no, they did not put us away completely. Putting away a team for 3 quarters means not a damn thing if you fail in the fourth, a lesson you should remember us being subject to all last year.

We made many of the exact same mistakes as we did in the first game. The difference to me is that the hole got bigger even quicker this time, and damn near everything went right for them, while damn near everything went wrong for us. If you look, we competed in the third and fourth quarters. We actually outscored them in the second half. The problem is they so grossly outscored us in the first that it was way too late. I think any team with a lead advantage like that, with us playing as badly as we were, would have beaten us. That’s right. ANY team in the NBA. That’s how bad things were going for us, physically, mentally, emotionally.

As for the bulk of your second paragraph, it’s not like you’re the only one. It’s not like this is fresh perspective. This has been brought up time and again. No, there’s no need to panic, but every time we brought up what I feel are valid concerns, people point to the record and scoff at the idea that there are any possible real problems or potential pitfalls. I thought the DFWI concept was cute, but when things go bad, you hear the common refrain: FWI, FWI, FWI!

However, I want to see what we do in the next couple of games before jumping to conclusions. All good teams have to get smacked hard in the mouth to understand some things. This was a good hard smack for us. Everybody has to take something from it, from coaching staff to players. And it’s the GM’s job to track the progress or regress, and determine why either has occurred, and what to do about it.

As far as Woody goes, I’d have to say I’ve been leaning towards that concept for a long time. And while I wouldn’t endorse firing the man for 2 consecutive losses, I ain’t tryin’ to hear that COY foolishness either. Let’s see what he and the team can do with some adversity.

Back to back losses to the Division leader, who also happens to be the 2nd best team in the East and the 3rd in the NBA: not good, but not the end of the world. We’ve seen and been through worse, and we know this team is better than what they showed last night.

Now let’s see what they do going forward, as that will tell the real story. For the upteenth time, the season’s not even half over yet. There’s a lot of work to do, and all kinds of room for improvement on many different levels, if you know what I mean.

I still believe certain problems exist, as do certain solutions. Can they be overcome with regularity? We’ll find out.

By ray

January 10, 2009 9:47 AM | Link to this

Hocker,

Dude, to improve on last season’s record even by only one game, we only have to win 16 more games out of the remaining 47. That’s 34% of the rest of the season. Are you saying we’re lucky to win a third of the remaining 47 games? On the one hand, that percentage matches up well with Woodson’s career record as a head coach. On the other hand, all I can say to you is…

Ding…

By Sautee

January 10, 2009 10:16 AM | Link to this

Ray

About this: I still believe certain problems exist, as do certain solutions. Can they be overcome with regularity? We’ll find out.

So are you saying the Hawks are constipated and that’s the problem?

Maybe they could put Metamucil in the Gatorade!

;-)

By belkin

January 10, 2009 10:18 AM | Link to this

* What happened to all the stupid hawks fans on here that keep saying ” WE ARE BETTER THEN THE MAGIC ” ?? Two nights in a row we’ve had our butts handed to us by them!! No more of the Hawks>Magic talk please! Its redickuculous!! JJ Redick out scored Joe Johnson *

By George W. Bush

January 10, 2009 10:18 AM | Link to this

You’re doing a heck of a job, Mikey.

By Eternal Optimist

January 10, 2009 10:26 AM | Link to this

Damn Hawks! This is the worst performance I have ever seen. The Hawks are what we thought they were, a mediocre team who performed above expectations the first 3rd of the season. I know we were missing Zaza but damn. Howard treated us like children. They double Joe all night and took him out of the game and Bibby is slower than my grandma. If his shots not falling he doesn’t help this team. He’s a liability on defense and he doesn’t even lead this team in assist. Woody has to start playing AC and Solo. This team just looked out of their element and unprepared. Even I have nothing good to say about last night. Ukkkk!

By richbrave

January 10, 2009 11:09 AM | Link to this

doc:

You know I’ve been of a mind all along to rebuild the WIZARDS. Why POLLIN would give long-term contracts to JAMISON and ARENAS is just anathma to my way of thinking.

Now JAMISON is beginnng to show signs of age, and the team is stuck with a six-year deal with a one-legged PG. You might think that the contracts could be dealt for an inside presence which the D.C. team sorely needs. But I can’t see the equity in JAMISON and ARENAS. All that’s been accomplished is to saddle the franchise with two long-term liabilities. Even if JAMISON begins to resurrect himself and AGENT ZERO fully recovers, McGEE and BLATCHE are blocked by JAMISON at the #4 and he limits McGUIRE’s minutes at the #3. Butler is not happy at the #2 and I suspect wants out of WASHINGTON. I certainly would accomodate him as he blocks YOUNG’s development at the #2.

“TOUGH JUICE” appears to be the only tradable commodity POLLIN has, and I don’t think a superior #5 could be had for him alone. Those summer moves percipitated by ARENAS’ childish outburst have cost the club severely.

I know JAVARIS is the future at #1 in the minds of GRUNFELD and TAPSCOTT. I’m sure they are both hoping ARENAS makes a FULL recovery. A package of a healthy and nimble ARENAS and CARON might get them a serious center to go forward with.

By The Truth

January 10, 2009 11:26 AM | Link to this

Since it is my duty to tell “The Truth”, even though as the clinch goes; sometimes, “The Truth” hurts. I figure, since this is a grown folk blog, we here can handle “The Truth”. Having said that, however, I am also aware that the content of the Hawks blogs are consumed by many types of readers; some friendly such as us fans/hawks community and some are not. There is a natural tendency if you are a fan to speak one way to another fan but speak a very different way to a foe. The way you might speak to a foe tends to fall in the political correctness category. For example, you may tend to describe an obviously ugly picture to a foe very differently than if you were talking to a fan. I am raising this level of awareness to explain why information within the blogs sometime is presented a certain way and when receive, is responded accordingly. Some bloggers maybe unconscientiously influence to color a picture differently because of the presence of “others” who are also reading it.

What does any of this have to do with last night game?

As I reflect on comments I made from a previous blog: I hope I’m wrong, but my gut tells me the Hawks maybe too focused on their past successes and the buzz of being mentioned as one of the “elite team in the east”; in addition to JJ perhaps being mentioned as MVP material; Also, the buzz of having one of the best home record in the NBA. These are success traps that will certainly contribute to a loss of focus. The ego container is only so big, when it is filled with this nonsense; it has no room for commitment to details such free-throw shooting or turn-oven ratio. I can even imagine JJ having those MJ dreams at night. I think, maybe, the team is spending too much time buying into this kind of hype. If this is the case, then it is the fans obligation to serve them a notice. If this team wants to be masters, they must be humble as servants. I was speaking in terms the Hawks inducing their own humbling experience by “checking their ego at the door”. But after last night lost, I think it is safe to say both frankly and from a political correct prospctive that the Orlando Magic handed the humbling experience to the Hawks on a sliver platter. The bigger question is where do we go from here? Do we continue to look in our rear view mirror or do we see the obvious in front of us?

By MannyT

January 10, 2009 11:52 AM | Link to this

The one good thing about this really bad loss. Most bloggers are not happy, but getting through it better than I thought.

Heck, several folks quickly agreeing with kirknga.

The Suckers are making me chuckle.

However, Sautee your Metamucil take falls right in line with the comment that we might be better off on Sunday if the Sixers were playing with Elton-Bran. He might keep them regular ;-)

Even the Celtics are on a slide right now. Aside from the Cavs game, they even loss to the Knicks and Bobcats. At least we got stomped by a good team.

One thing I will say about coaching. It matters more in consecutive games against the same team. We have been game planning and practicing from Sunday through Friday for one team. Now I don’t put all of this on Woody by any means, but when you are down 50, there is enough blame to go around.

Oh well next game.

doc that was a great distraction from Asylum.

rms Tamron Hall has a website, so you can learn more about her.

Now you know!

BWAF

By Sautee

January 10, 2009 12:27 PM | Link to this

MannyT

LOL, Now you know!

And actually I think of it as kirk agreeing with me, since I basically posted much of what he later said in my 9:01 post to Justin.

And I think we can all agree that the Hawks need some more “bulk” for their “inside game”. ;-)

Eeuuw!

By kwooden1

January 10, 2009 12:41 PM | Link to this

I like everyone else was complete shocked by last night’s performance. I hate to pile on this point; but with Sekou talking like Woodson was really serious about playing better, I have to question whether they are really listening. They basically got blown out twice by the same team in three nights. I don’t care that Orlando is better than the HAWKS, they are our rival. I think Woodson’s going to spin this to the players something like, “See you guys have to listen and do what I tell you!!!”. Looks like we’re going to see more “slow down” ball and half court sets. I didn’t see the game, so I don’t want to analyze what I think happened, but I will make the obvious observation that we couldn’t SCORE! That is my only real concern from this game. Horford isn’t developing at a fast enough rate in the post to be the presents that we need. The HAWKS are now just another jump shooting team. (a least they usually play really good defense!) To be an elite team with this line-up JS and Marvin are really going to have to develop even more quickly. Marvin is going to have to take and make more 3’s. JS is going to have to take advantage of every PF he plays against. (back to the basket and face-up) I still believe we’re a mid-level playoff team, but the potential is there to be an elite team.

No More Nights like last Night Though!!

GO HAWKS!!

By Sautee

January 10, 2009 1:06 PM | Link to this

Unintended Irony?

By Eternal Optimist

January 10, 2009 10:26 AM | Link to this

Damn Hawks! This is the worst performance I have ever seen. The Hawks are what we thought they were, a mediocre team who performed above expectations the first 3rd of the season. I know we were missing Zaza but damn. Howard treated us like children. They double Joe all night and took him out of the game and Bibby is slower than my grandma. If his shots not falling he doesn’t help this team. He’s a liability on defense and he doesn’t even lead this team in assist. Woody has to start playing AC and Solo. This team just looked out of their element and unprepared. Even I have nothing good to say about last night. Ukkkk!

How bad would it be if you weren’t Eternally Optimistic?

By Ramon

January 10, 2009 1:14 PM | Link to this

The starters got much needed rest. And the cost was only one loss. I was glad to see them lose like this and the starters get rest, than to lose by 1 point and the starters all play forty plus minutes.

The Magic were just on fire. That had nothing even really to do with defense. Some games will come when there’s nothing you can do to stop the other team. Any one who has ever played competitive basketball realizes that fact.

In the playoffs, I would still take the Hawks over the Magic in a best of 7 simply because the Hawks still have more closers than Orlando does. (i.e. The Lakers getting blown out in the Finals a few years ago, and still closing the series out 2 games later).

The good thing about the last two games is hopefully now it forces the entire team to concentrate and try something different. I look for the Hawks to come out the next couple of weeks playing more relaxed. A game like this is when Bibby is the most valuable.

By The Truth

January 10, 2009 1:49 PM | Link to this

I think Orlando Magic did a great job exploiting and exposing our weaknesses. I wrote some blogs ago that we are a tweener team. With the exception of JJ and maybe Marvin, our other starters really play out of position. Josh is really a sf at the pf position; AL is really a pf at the center position; Bibby is really a sg in a pg body. Because of this, the only effective defense we can really play is team defense because of our size limitation. This is equivalent to the Falcons only having a zone defense cover 2, 3, or 4 defenses. We have no ability to play effective man-on-man defense. So Orlando simply forced us to play team defense either through guard penetration or inside with DH and setup the red-hot outside shooters with wide-open looks; and they never stop doing it. We made no adjustments, we just substituted players and ran the same defense scheme over and over again; and they killed us. At least we should have tried man-on-man and took our chances. Hell we were losing anyway. Let’s practice for the next time we meet. Plan B would have been to let DH get his 30 or 40 with a man-man scheme but stop everybody else. Don’t let the other shooters find a rhythm with wide-open looks which they did. To a certain degree, we really can’t blame our players for defensive breakdowns like last night; there is only so much of rotation and switching a team defense scheme can do for 4 quarters when everybody is hot and we are not. That is why Woody was clueless and the player conceded.

The scary part about this scenario is that during Sekou’s interview with GM Sund, he seemed to be quite pleased with the current roster. You get the sense that we are going to stay this course.

By ray

January 10, 2009 1:50 PM | Link to this

Manny, that was me that said the Sixers are more dangerous without Brand (at least in my mind, anyway, could be wrong).

Sautee,

I’d say that you are just so wrong for that, but I’m betting Woody would’ve tried it last night….

By I .MUS WRITE

January 10, 2009 3:05 PM | Link to this

Right on Ed- Im with u bro.They deserve more minutes ….no way these guys should be getting DNP’s

KIRK- The front line over acheived last year against Boston-You cant go deep in the playoffs with 2 6’9 guy’s manning the paint. We absolutely have no answer for Dwight,but I notice that ZAZA plays him okay which is a far cry from that pittiful performance last night.

Think about this a rookie gave us the bussiness…. Brook Lopez -im saying he’s a big guy but relatively inexperienced……….. If we cant stop the likes of Lopez and Nesterovic what the hell are we gonna do with, Illgauskas,Varejo,Howard etc……

I like Al as a player, but I would listen to trades if sumone came a calling—- WE NEED SOME SIZE

Last nights game reminded me of the Houston game January of Last year….I think we lost by 30+ Yao destroyed us inside- we had no answer what so ever

Randolph Morris is a bench player in the D league……..uuuugh

By Mission Control

January 10, 2009 3:28 PM | Link to this

“Roger Houston…The Atlanta Hawks are clear for landing. OVER!” (static noise). “22-12, one small step Coach Woodson, one giant leap for Hawkskind. OVER!” (static noise)

“Houston…(static noise)How long do you think that we (Atlanta Hawks) will be grounded? OVER!”

Houston: “Well captain,…we haven’t been back to the moon in 40 yrs. OVER!”

By E. G.

January 10, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this

TO: THE TRUTH

You are definitely correct. We have players playing out of position Bibby is a shooting guard; he’s too slow to be a point guard. Josh Smith is a small forward because a real poward forward has a post up game. All Horford is a power forward playing as an undersized center; did you see Orlando’s backup center outrebounding Horford.

We have some serious problems as teams continue to figure us out. However, we will still make the players because I think Woody will learn the hard way that it doesn’t hurt to play Solomon and Acie when he sees Al Horford, Bibby and Josh Smith missing shots and being unsuccessful posting up opposing players.

HEY GUYS, WHAT ABOUT THIS GUY NAMED “PATRICK MILL”? HE SHOOTS LIKE BIBBY BY IS QUICK LIKE ACIE LAW. WE NEED A POINT GUARD LIKE THIS GUY. HE WOULD MAKE THINGS SO MUCH EASIER FOR JOE JOHNSON.

I HAVE COPIED AND ATTACHED A LINK OF THIS GUY (PATRICK MILLS) BELOW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tRLRvWUtI4

By Jim Burn is Roaming

January 10, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this

Orlando exposed the Hawks really bad. They magnified Atlanta’s weaknesses. Other teams in the league will watch this game film and repeat what Orlando did.

If Philly, a seriously under performing team, manages to “figure out” the Hawks, it could spell trouble for Hawknation and Mike Woodson.

By Big Ump

January 10, 2009 4:22 PM | Link to this

By The Truth

You say to a certain degree, we can’t blame our players for defensive breakdowns like last night is totally bull. From the beginning you could see the focus and energy wasn’t there. Even if you switch to a man to man, and don’t play with energy you still get the same results. You see the energy the Magic had on the D side. For a Pro player to conced because things not going right is unreal. That’s no excuse. I remind you this is my opinion, and because it’s my opinion it don’t make it right.

By The Truth

January 10, 2009 4:46 PM | Link to this

Big Ump That’s it. I’m convince. You are a blood relative to Woody. He can do no wrong. No need to respond. It cool. If I was related, I would blindly defend him too; even after two back-to-back defeats from the same team.

Peace

By MannyT

January 10, 2009 4:53 PM | Link to this

ray you correctly made the basketball observation. *Sautee made the intestinal diagnosis for which Brand is recommended.

Thinking back to some Ando comments he made, maybe Sautee has a thing about the lower end of the digestive tract…hmm

I just don’t want to see either of these spots on that Philips Arena jumbotron when they say it’s crunch time.

BWAF

By Sautee

January 10, 2009 5:10 PM | Link to this

MannyT

I’m actually afflicted with the same thing as you.

Incurably a punster. I’m sure there’s an acronym for folks like us, and I have faith that you’ll find it.

By MannyT

January 10, 2009 5:13 PM | Link to this

As for the inside presence concerns, I’m much more worried about Phoenix and the Clippers than Philly.

Shaq/Amare, Zach, or Samuel…I think I take my chances with Dalambert as the primary inside scoring threat.

E.G Not sure when Mills is coming out of college. Anyone we see in the draft is likely to be in the last half of the first round. Getting anyone more than a role player requires better draft selection than average or lots of luck.

richbrave I like Butler, but I doubt he fits here. Now if Haywood returns soon, I’d consider scooping him up. However, the reality is that the Wiz are not playing well enough to move him. He’s relatively inexpensive for a starting center.

BWAF

By Big Ump

January 10, 2009 5:41 PM | Link to this

By The Truth

Because that’s was my opinion, then I have to be a relative? If you read what I wrote you will see that I said just because that were my opinion that don’t make me right. It seem to me If someone don’t agree with you , you have a problem with it. Remember other people have opinion also, and you have to accept that. Also in my Blog I didn’t mention Woody name not once. You are so fired up when people don’t agree with it cause you not to think right. And for the second time this is my opinion and It don’t make me right, because what I said.

By Sautee

January 10, 2009 5:49 PM | Link to this

Now where did kirk leave that soiled olive branch?

Truth and Big Ump could use it.

Hint: Use gloves

By The Hawksta

January 10, 2009 6:16 PM | Link to this

Wow you know it’s a rough one when Sekou blogs two or three more times on his original blog!

The Hawks played like a bunch of pimp slapped hoes! I’m extremely p**! It’s like Orlando slapped them and they just poked their lips out and walk away! I ain’t seen nothing like that since high school!

I think Charles Barkley said it best, This is the kind of lost that makes you go home and kick the dog and slap the wife!

Like said on the Hack. Joe Johnson has to be more demonstrative! He finally got tee’d up! I’m proud of you Joe! Now go out there and get another one. Better yet if you and your teammates don’t play any better tomorrow, someone better get throwed out the damn game!

Go back out there and get some damn respect! My fingers heart from pounding this darn keyboard and it’s the day freakin after!

FREE ACIE

By Big Ump

January 10, 2009 6:46 PM | Link to this

Sautee

That was funny and I like that about the soiled olive and boxing gloves but that not my style. I’m just expressing my opinion.

By E. G.

January 10, 2009 6:55 PM | Link to this

I APOLOGIZE GUYS, BUT WE HAVE TO TRADE ONE OF OUR STARTER TO GET A LEGITIMATE POINT GUARD WITH THE SKILLS OF “PATRICK MILLS”.

By E. G.

January 10, 2009 6:56 PM | Link to this

I FORGOT TO SAY TRADE ANY STARTER WITH THE EXCEPTION OF JOE JOHNSON.

By Sautee

January 10, 2009 6:57 PM | Link to this

Big Ump

LOL I meant sanitary gloves because the olive branch (symbol of peace) had been soiled.

By doc

January 10, 2009 7:39 PM | Link to this

ray, we won 1 of 7 quarters is my point and were never closer than 4 in the “comeback”. maybe our scrubs beat theirs in quarter 8 and by the player minutes played it suggests just that as i turned to the boston game when najeh gave me the heads up. i didnt watch to the bitter end. if you did you were the only one. i digress, never did we lead, that is the deception. yes we came close, came back, rallied, almost pulled it out, tried to turn it on when we needed to, la la la. just we got our doors blown off, ears boxed, trashed, etc. in those games. have the guys hit the wall, lost their edge, feel they can turn it on at will or turned off their coach is the question? or maybe as ramon says the magic are in a zone that they will not attain the rest of the year. it does resemble the team that played in boston during the playoffs, no?

ray, it is laughable or disingenuous to say we played well in the second half and even out scored them. dude we were 50 friggin points behind at 100 to 50. i havent seen that type of mismatch but maybe, gee, i dont think i have ever seen a beating that bad. i am sure there was one but if the magic had continued to pour it on it would have been one for the record books is all i am saying. the magic starters played less than ours and only put in about 27 minutes, ours got in about 23 minutes. dude it is the optimist in you that wants to take anything positive out of this game or really anything positive out of the two games together. i will go so far to say anything positive about game one of the week was dredged out of our boys by two hard practices with woody chewing hard on them, maybe. sorry, i cant play it any other way.

yes, it isnt fresh perspective if i am repeating myself which i pointed out. i didnt mean it that way. thought it was even toned and agreeing with you and kirk rather than repeating only to continue the thread. also missed the kirk derived dfwi, so someone will hopefully bring me up to speed there.

we come back tomorrow and all is well. start to lose then it is back to the drawing board.

By Blast

January 10, 2009 7:50 PM | Link to this

Still getting over and processing the monumental debacle that was last night’s loss vs the Magic. Did the team quit on their coach? Did the Magic sock it to them so bad early that they lost heart? But it was what it was. A huge, debilitating and disapointing loss. The big question is how will the Hawks come out against Philly tomorrow.

Sautee is right, Justin. None of us felt the Hawks would be where they are right now, 9 games over 5 and fifth in the East. They are still a pleasant suprise barring the last two losses, but talk of winning the East is just premature and foolish. Let’s win one playoff series first, man! 22-13 is still a pretty darn good record, but Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando are definitely better than the Hawks.

Hawkster, please be careful with those fingers.

By Sautee

January 10, 2009 8:01 PM | Link to this

Nate ArchiBALL

Woody has taken a athletic group of players and has them playing like a team of 50 year old men in an open recreational league.

THAT was funny!

By Mychelfromatl

January 10, 2009 8:17 PM | Link to this

Hawksta, I see exactly what you mean. Joe Johnson finally showed some life yesterday getting hit with that tecnical foul. I’ve always felt that Joe Johnson was the one guy on the team that needed to show more emotion. Yesterday I was just waiting to see who was gonna get tossed first.

By HB Ando

January 10, 2009 8:46 PM | Link to this

(Tap tap): Is this thing on (blinded by work and snow, in Salt Lake City)?

Please do not put me on a milk carton quite yet…..

By ray

January 10, 2009 8:48 PM | Link to this

Doc,

Disingenuous? Laughable? Really? Perhaps you felt like I was saying you were wrong when I said there was nothing deceptive about the 4 point loss. I’ll say again that my point with that is while we never led (as you correctly pointed out), we still had a chance to win that game. We got ourselves back into that game. Yeah, I know, woulda, shoulda, coulda. The difference between the first and second games is that we never had a chance to win in the second one. No chance at all once the snowball started rolling.

Your perspective is correct as far as I’m concerned: we lost 6 of 7 quarters. Again, how many times did we win 3 out of 4 quarter last year, only to lose the game in the 4th one? Or the 3rd? See how that works? By the way, I didn’t say we played well. I said we competed. There is a difference.In my opinion, getting outscored by 3 or 4 in a quarter is competing. The fact that we outscored them in the 4th quarter is just that: a fact. I know it did us no good, and I know who was playing against who, and it didn’t matter.

My point (again) was that we dug way too big of a hole in the first half of this second game to overcome our mistakes. In the first game, we dug a hole and never led, but we had a chance to pull it out. We competed better over the course of the game, nearly enough to win. I don’t believe we are as bad as that second game showed us to be. A bigger hole than in the first meeting. That’s all. By the time our team starting competing with theirs (regardless of who was playing, two teams were on the floor), it was way too late, and too far out of reach. To me, that was why there was nothing deceptive about a 4 point loss.

Yes, I did watch the game to the bitter end, and by suggesting that I was the only one to do so, then you must know the tv ratings inside out. Hell, I just wanted to see what our reserves would do, and if we could regain some small amount of dignity by closing the gap to 20 or so. And my point about “fresh perspective” is that you, myself, and many others have been bringing that perspective for some time now, only to be scoffed at in the wake of a what is currently a good record. And now we get to see a little bit of it coming out.

I don’t know what I said that was so laughable and positive, other than the fact that two bench guys gave some positive individual performances. I just don’t believe we’re as bad a team as the whoopin’ we took. Add a few more to it, and I’ll believe it. That’s what I’m saying. And you can chop me up for that all you want. You aren’t the first, you won’t be the last.

By ray

January 10, 2009 8:51 PM | Link to this

Blast,

I agree. We’re not that good yet. But we’re not so bad that we’ll get blown out like that every time (or even most times) against good teams.

From Sekou’s latest article:

“The fact that Bibby has gotten guys to buy into how he plays and how he leads says a lot,” Woodson said. “He’s not a screamer or a yeller. That’s not his nature. It’s the subtle things he says and does on the floor and off that let guys know it’s time to get serious about what they’re doing. And that’s helped Joe. It breaks the locker room pressure.

“He’s been good for me, too. Because I can come in there all upset and he will instantly say, ‘Hey man, relax. Settle down and relax. Everything’s going to be alright.’ And I need that. It’s reassurance for me that they have things under control in there as veterans.”

Words from Woody. I know this was probably meant to be a feel-good article on the “Bibby effect”, but when Woody said that, I didn’t feel so good…

By Melvin

January 10, 2009 8:54 PM | Link to this

Hey Doc, you can watch your boy J.Critt play against Charlotte right now instead of relying on RichBrave updates. click on the link below. once you are on the site just look for the wiz game and click on the icon….

(http://www.channelsurfing.net/)

By Melvin

January 10, 2009 9:04 PM | Link to this

Let’s trying that again….

Hey Doc, you can watch your boy J.Critt play against Charlotte right now instead of relying on RichBrave updates. click on the link below. once you are on the site just look for the wiz game and click on the icon….

[(http://www.channelsurfing.net/)]

By doc

January 10, 2009 9:32 PM | Link to this

chop chop … ray, luv ya ….. mean it.

yes i agree.

also glad to hear that about woody, if you look to my earlier comments as i passed off on the debacle without a note of panic i suggested it was bibby time. the vet was going to have to pull things together as we see how effective the woody tongue lash was. maybe woody needed to spend more time on the last quarter or the earlier game like you have done rather than whatever else he said that sooo many were relishing in it, as if it was deserved. seen or know anyone in that group?

man are the cardinals taking it to the panthers or what? 27 unanswered points.

By ray

January 10, 2009 9:41 PM | Link to this

I think Sautee said it best on the Hack blog- He said we have too many eggs in one basket. One heck of a veteran all-star caliber backcourt, but with no answer down low, we see how it goes. Too many young and talented backcourts out there to match, exceed, or come close enough. Too many bigger and subsequently talented frontcourts.

By HB Ando

January 10, 2009 9:45 PM | Link to this

Ray, I don’t see much point in you being so laughingenious.

doc, see you tomorrow……

By justin

January 10, 2009 9:47 PM | Link to this

Blast, Sautee, and anyone I might have missed: I totally agree that the Hawks are having a really good season, better than many expected at season’s start. I didn’t expect them to win the East in the preseason, but 4th seed doesn’t surprise me. I thought that they had a lot of untapped potential and I thought they would carry over from last season’s playoffs and might have a “break-out season.”

Still, I’m saying you have to look at continually improving our team. Who knows if ASG is planning on resigning Bibby and Marvin and bringing in a big? I think with the economy down, the salary cap might be lower (as some suggest). I doubt ASG will throw big money this summer, and we may still have salary cap limits even though Bibby’s huge contract comes off the books.

I suspected before the season that Bibby’s contract might be tradeable, but I did also expect Law to be developed more. I thought that with some pt, he might make enough strides to convince ASG to move Bibby in a trade. Well, Acie hasn’t really had enough pt to determine what he can do, so moving Bibby would be risky unless we brought in a seasoned vet. But letting Bibby walk (if that’s what ASG does) means we lost a valuable asset for nothing (a la Childress). It’s hard to continue to improve that way.

When the Hawks were healthy and on a run a couple of weeks ago and the Celtics and Cavs were looking much more beatable, I did think the Hawks had a decent chance of advancing to the East Finals and an outside shot of winning them. I wouldn’t trade Bibby if I thought I had a chance to do something like that with the roster intact, regardless of his salary. But now that’s looking a lot less probable.

I’m not saying the Hawks should do a fire sale on Bibby. I said “shop” him. But for that matter they should do the same with Marvin. He’s a good player with a lot of potential, but you always have to look to make moves that will improve your team. 22-13 is a very good record, much better than what we’re accustomed to. The goal has to be to develop into a chamionship team. Will the current roster do that? Probably not. Will we have much cap room to improve our team if we resign Bibby and Marvin? I doubt it. Personally I would rather sign Marvin to a long term deal. He’ll never be as good of a small forward as Chris Paul (ok, bad joke), but I think that I would rather give him a 5 year deal than Bibby. I just think that with Bibby’s size, speed, and age, a 5 yr deal for big bucks would not be the right decision. Just my opinion. I guess the question for me is what would we need to get back if Bibby were traded in order for it to improve our roster.

By Justin

January 10, 2009 10:10 PM | Link to this

By the way, there is one other unpopular scenario that I would propose that might involve keeping Bibby: Trade Josh Smith for a legit 5 who can post up and move Al to the 4. Then we can resign both marvin and Bibby and use our mid-level to get a quality big to back up the front court. Use the draft to fill out the bench more. Hopefully Bibby signs for only 4 years and Law develops into a quality pg. That would leave us with a better cap structure, a more balanced offense, and I think Al is more likely to meet his potential at the 4.

By doc

January 10, 2009 10:53 PM | Link to this

ando, i dont know if ray is so laughingenious but i do know ray is a genius at making us laugh.

ando, yeah, it will be good to sit around a reflect a bit.

ray, i am a fan of ken the whiz. an augusta native and former bee. the guy is a stud and the one we should have gotten a few years back when we had the chance. smith seems a good redo. stellar performance by the cards.

By E. G.

January 10, 2009 11:04 PM | Link to this

HEY RAY!!!!

This is what Ray said: We competed better over the course of the game, nearly enough to win. I don’t believe we are as bad as that second game showed us to be.

REMEMBER RAY The Hawks was playing a team that had just played the previous night. There is not reason why we should have lost that game.

Orlando showed us our true colors when they played us with well rested players, the same players I might add.

Get it Ray, Ray?

By Jim Burn is Roaming

January 10, 2009 11:08 PM | Link to this

The Hawks now hold the 5th seed in the Eastern Conference, behind Detroit and are 4 games in front of Miami. I know that it is still very early, but…

By ant banks

January 10, 2009 11:17 PM | Link to this

Manny, Ray, Doc, Imus or somebody, who are the up coming RFA and UFA coming up this year, that is worth something?

i got this wild trade scenario…who could we get lettin’ bibby go 14mil, Zaza 4mil, tradin’ the rights to Chills, and 2 draft picks? That’s about 24mil in cap space…are there any upcomin’ RFA or UFA that we could make this happen’? Someone even threw JSmoove in the mix…

By E. G.

January 10, 2009 11:18 PM | Link to this

* We need a starting point guard who can make defenses play honest and a starting point guard who can play defense.*

BIBBY IS “NOT” THE ANSWER!!

By doc

January 10, 2009 11:26 PM | Link to this

sekou, even though you want to think the bigger man is yang and the smaller guy is yin it is converse in their personalities and that is the true measure of yin and yang. the yin is jj the brooder, the quiet one, the grounded individual. the opposite is true for bibby the smaller of the two, only more active, boisterous, energetic and outgoing. that is more the definition of yang though in a smaller package. nide article about the guys.

now josh smith is YANG.

By Melvin

January 10, 2009 11:34 PM | Link to this

Detroit loss to the Utah tonite and now the Hawks are back in the 4th spot. See, all is not lost. Now lets go out there and stomp the 76ers tomorrow.

By doc

January 11, 2009 12:04 AM | Link to this

melvin, look for me. i’ll be the old guy with the tall guy.

By Melvin

January 11, 2009 12:12 AM | Link to this

Will do Doc….

By harrythehawk

January 11, 2009 12:16 AM | Link to this

Championship basketball is as much about HEART as it is about talent, size differentials or gamemanship at the coaching position.

The scary problem with the last two losses for me is that the Hawks could not muster the killer instinct to put away the team that is occupying a spot they presumably want.

In spite of the above .500 record, the Hawks have played to the level of their competition on more occasions than not…while they have great chances to make the playoffs, it does not bode well for a run

What they’re missing,IMHO, is floor leadership

While we’re on the subject…whose team is this????

(Bibby’s—No, JSmoove—I don’t know, Joe Johnson—-I don’t know). Add a passive coach and it does not make for a good recipe headed towards the next level.

Catch my drift?

By The Hawksta

January 11, 2009 1:07 AM | Link to this

Harry, you arent’t the mascot are you? Maybe that was the old one(lol)? That new guy does all those crazy dunks and stuff(lol)! Good post! Woodson standing there with his arms folded and his jacket still on while we getting our buts whip was horrible! Whose team is this Harry? I want to know too?

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 11, 2009 2:12 AM | Link to this

Y’all are funny.

It’s funny to me that we have become so spoiled by this young Hawks team in the last couple of months that when they lay an egg we are calling for peoples’ heads and demanding that trades be made.

It’s just two games. The first game they nearly came back and won, and the second game they laid an egg. I’m not saying either game was OK, but in an 82 game season every team is gonna have some stinkers. If the Hawks are gonna suck against someone, might as well be someone who is actually better than them. That’s a hell of a lot better than stinking up the joint against the Pacers (blew out the Celtics), Wizards (beat the Cavs), or Kings (beat the Lakers by double digits), for example.

I see no reason for the Hawks or we the fans to be demoralized or worried. If they play badly against the Sixers, Clippers, or Warriors in the next week, then we can start worrying. For now, chill out. The Hawks will be fine.

One more thing: MannyT and Ariose, how do you post more than one link in a single message without the system swallowing up your message?

By Ariose

January 11, 2009 6:21 AM | Link to this

it’s reall not thet hard of a cocept.

Stop doubling dwight howard. With all of our bigs we have at least 30 fouls to give and howard aint gon drop 50 on us like that. Then just cover the shooters and you stall their offense. That’s what we did last season. I don’t understand why we had to double every time he touched the ball. Maybe Woody doubled because zaza wasn’t there either way, I feel sory for philly…

~Sir Links A Lot~

By harrythehawk

January 11, 2009 9:17 AM | Link to this

Hey Najeh: no worries…this is actually a healthy discussion, as most people seem to feel that: a) the Hawks have a decent nucleus b) they are a playoff bound team this year and c) with some luck and the cards falling right, they could contend for a high seed—-and with a tailwind, the division crown.

Assuming all of those things are true, you have to put a stake in the ground against those teams who stand directly between you and your ultimate goal. In other words, games against GS, OKC and the Clips should be a given.

Even with the good record, I would contend that too may close games against the likes of the above (i.e., where they hang around until the 4th quarter) and then put them away has actually been bad for the Hawks psyche…..

A false sense of security in pulling out those types of wins is dangerous in the NBA, as you can get complacent and fooled into thinking “we have enough in the tank to pull this out when we get ready”. Combine this with the leadership question mentioned in my last post and a these two losses—-because of who they were against and the message that was at stake—-loom larger than two normal L’s….

That is, if the Hawks are truly focused on more than a first round Cinderella story this year.

Last thought, has anyone noticed the intensity with which the Cavs have been playing since losing to the Hawks—-a team their on court demeanor suggested they could “turn it on” and beat?

The Hawks need to recommit themselves to that type of hustle, focus and grit on every play. While there are other issues (match-ups, speed at the point), they basically lack KILLER INSTINCT.

It’s evident on most of the elite teams where it might originate from (Cavs: Bron Bron, Lakers: Kobe, Celts: KG/Paul ) Orlando seems to be developing the same with Dwight and Jameer. This seems to be another divider between first-tier and second-tier teams

I ask, where will that come from on the Hawks, given their personalities, team makeup and coaching philosophy?

By doc

January 11, 2009 9:44 AM | Link to this

hh very nicely put. careful you might be put into the category of the rulers when he really might mean the court jesters.

what is also nicely put is this is a discussion based setting for debate or discourse about our team. it is certainly better than wanting to solve the worlds problems.

we get to see where the minds and hearts of our hawks are and our fan base in a few hours. i am really looking forward to it. come on down hawks fans.

your bat najeh.

By The Truth

January 11, 2009 9:57 AM | Link to this

UMP Your response to my comment:

Because that’s was my opinion, then I have to be a relative? If you read what I wrote you will see that I said just because that were my opinion that don’t make me right. It seem to me If someone don’t agree with you , you have a problem with it.

WOW!! Our dialogue is becoming high maintenance. It’s not that I have a problem with your disagreeing with me; I have a problem with your logic. It appears to be ok for you to respond to my comments with a disagreement; but you charge me with having a problem when I disagree with your response to my comment. Did you get all of that? If A=B and B=C Then A=C. This logic is not my opinion, it is fact

Futhermore, you don’t need to tell me what I already know:

this is my opinion and It don’t make me right

Opinions are like as!s holes, we all got one. Each one is endowed by our creator. Do you disagree with that?

By ray

January 11, 2009 10:11 AM | Link to this

Najeh,

I agree. In fact, I echoed a lot of what you said. Got called “laughable” and “disingenuous” by the needler for my efforts…lol…you really gotta love this blog…

But to be honest with you, there are certain kinds of trades I feel will upgrade us, and I’ve advocated those for a couple of years now. No point in talking about it too much at the moment, though.

E.G.,

What was it that I was supposed to get that I didn’t get, and am apparently still not getting? LOL! No really, what was it?

Justin,

Very interesting points, and very good questions. Rather than address every single one, I think I’ll hit some of the more notable ones. First, I agree on the idea of Bibby and the 5 year contract (because you better believe he’s looking for that one last decent sized contract-it will be for no less than 4 years I think). It’s not the right decision in my mind either, unless you think he (and whatever other parts) can get you deep into the playoffs, contending for the Finals each year. I like Bibby, but don’t see that happening.

Second, I think we are heading for the fruition of an old argument: Josh vs. Marvin. This year’s team could prove Ando, myself, and several others wrong…but I don’t think we advance to a championship with the current roster. We have a size disadvantage that is difficult to overcome, as Ando, recently Kirk, and others have extrapolated on many times. The problem comes with other disadvantages that are not popular to talk about, which compound our size disadvantage. Sooner or later, you end up parting with one of them, I think.

Marvin is fine as a SF. Josh is too, in the right setting (and this will spark inumerous amounts of arguments). Marvin is closer to the traditional type. While I have been known to lobby long and hard for the re-signing of Josh Smith, I have never said “don’t ever trade him.” And while it is an unpopular idea, I’ve always maintained that you trade Josh if it makes this team better. The problem is, nobody seems to come up with a plausible and well thought out way to do it. Some people say just trade him for a center. Hey, if you can get a guy that will make us better and more balanced, then do it. But who’s giving away good centers for super athletic tweener forwards? I’d like to know. I’ll bet Sund would, too. All I can say is that Josh’s contract shouldn’t scare anybody off if it comes to a trade. At 5/$58 million, he’s a bargain for what he can bring. Betcha Philly is wondering why they paid nearly $25 million more for what they got…However, you are dealing with something of a quandary from a marketing standpoint. How do you trade a hometown boy? It can be done, but you get my drift. Anyway, back to the main point: If Josh’s exodus nets us the type of big that makes us better (and moves Horford to the 4 spot), then it’s a good deal. But it needs to be a guy who can produce for the next 5-10 years, not some guy who has 2-3 good years left in him.

Third,

Same goes for Marvin, though I think he fetches us less than Josh does, unless packaged with somebody. Marvin for a guy like Bargnani may not be the be-all, end-all, best-idea-ever. But do we lose anything in such a trade? No, I don’t think so. In fact, I see us gaining. But that’s just me. There are certainly other options.

Fourth, you bring up a good point about Bibby. What makes people think that retaining him beyond this season is a given? The ASG will do what they will do, assuming they maintain control and ownership of the team.

The thing is, I don’t advocate trade because we lost a game or two. I advocate it for the sake of getting better for the forseeable future.

We’re not going on a championship run this year either, which is something to bear in mind when it comes to talking about Bibby (or some other players). But we also must consider how to keep JJ on board. I get the argument that is often presented: keep Bibby around to keep JJ happy. But is this the same as winning and getting better? If that’s what we’re going to commit to (the Bibby/JJ backcourt), then somebody has to figure out how to build around it to make it work.

I think that puts us back to square one: which forward do you let go to get yourself a pivot man? Because a backcourt of Bibby and JJ alone is not going to get us to the next level and beyond. Of course, things are probably never all that cut and dry, and I’m no GM. Just my opinion.

By ray

January 11, 2009 10:35 AM | Link to this

If A=B and B=C Then A=C. This logic is not my opinion, it is fact

Truth,

You know there’s a way to defeat that particular logic, right? Heh heh, I’m not going to go there though. I just had to mess with ya. Besides, we have people here who defy logic routinely, lol!

By The Truth

January 11, 2009 10:36 AM | Link to this

Ray Excellent points you just made. Your analysis of the Hawks situation is on point and echoes some of my earlier points. You may be better at the Hawks GM job than you think.

By Melvin

January 11, 2009 10:54 AM | Link to this

Ray, There maybe a 5th and 6 option for those who don’t want to see Bibby or Marvin leave. The Hawks still have the rights to JChill and the big guy across seas D.Andersen. JChills may not net us a top tier low post player but he should be able to return a quality guy that can help. Keep in mind, that we wouldn’t be seeking a starter in return if we are going to keep our starting five intact. As for D.Andersen, he’s very similiar to Bargnani. A big that could shoot from the outside and be able to defend other bigs on the defensive end. Again, this is alternative that we have if we are going to keep our current roster intact…..

By ray

January 11, 2009 11:14 AM | Link to this

Melvin,

I hear ya. It’s not like the Hawks are limited to the ideas I have (or those of anybody else). Something tells me Sund is more interested in Anderson as a player than Billy ever was (I don’t care what Billy says). But then, I could be wrong altogether. Sund surely has his own view of things, and may want something entirely different. I understand that these are good options if we are to keep the current roster intact.

But is this current roster what Sund wants to go into the future with? Can this group go deep into the playoffs consistently, even with the addition of Anderson? Questions I certainly have no answers to.

But as you say, there are options. Of course, this is not me wanting Bibby or Williams to leave, so don’t get me wrong. I like both guys. This is me acknowledging the fact that one or both might leave, regardless of what we want. And it may be what it takes for this team to get better. I truly do not know.

Here’s what gets me: Sekou reported that 8 teams were interested in a deal for Childress before he skipped over the pond to the land of Feta Cheese. It kills me sometimes, wondering what it was that we could have had…And what would we get for him now, him having been out of the NBA and all? I don’t know that we could get a whole lot at this point. Then again, I could be wrong. I think trading his rights along with something else in a package might work, if he’s particularly interested in coming back to the NBA, which he seems to be by what scant few media reports we’ve seen. Again, I don’t know…

Truth,

Thanks man, but I’m much better right here in the armchair with said armchair analysis, though we agree on a great many things. I entertain no such ideas of being a GM my friend. I’m sure I could find ways to make y’all want to drag Billy Knight back into office with a $3 million dollar raise, LOL! And Woody would be trying to get my butt fired real quick…heh heh heh.

By doc

January 11, 2009 11:54 AM | Link to this

dad gum, ray, you bringin it. all i can say is uh huh and nod my head. gee, that is no fun.

By doc

January 11, 2009 12:57 PM | Link to this

btw this is the latest i could find on chills:

http://www.forumnba.com/olypiacos-82-66-olympia-athientis-t79093.html?s=85dbcae9c55b8013ada91781b65863c3&

seemed pretty good to me. just not sure if it was in greek or turkish.

maybe ariose could do me one better along with a you tube in english.

By doc

January 11, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this

did i just see this, seems like an observation brought to life:

http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2008/08/subtraction-by-addition-hawks-sign-flip.html

what do they know anyway? harumph.

By RLP

January 11, 2009 1:08 PM | Link to this

Ray

I also agree with almost all of your analysis.

But I keep returning again and again to the Orlando game. And I think I have a solution. When we play Orlando it will be very simple. All we need to do is to purchase an elephant gun. Then every time Orlando brings the ball across the center line point it at DH and tell him to get back on the other side. Of course eventually the player holding the gun will have to pull the trigger. The NBA will lose the next great superstar and the Hawks will lose a player. Maybe we can give the gun to Randolph Morris so the loss will not be too great. Or maybe we can trade all of our startes to Orlando in exchange for DH and then start over.

*ES

You certainly have proven me wrong about any consensus existing in the ATL. I don’t think one is possible on this blog.

By bigdave

January 11, 2009 1:39 PM | Link to this

TV for today’s game? ajc.com has the game airing on sportsouth however, im looking direct tv guide and doesn’t look like its being broadcast…?

By Jt

January 11, 2009 2:02 PM | Link to this

Sekou

I know this is off topic, but what is up with Speedy? Is he done for the year? I have not heard his name mentioned.

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 11, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this

If they are not gonna televise these Sunday games, why even schedule them on Sunday in the first place? I know there ain’t gonna be more people watching UNC vs. NC State women’s basketball than the Hawks game, and yet that’s what Fox Sports South has on right now.

By Blast

January 11, 2009 2:58 PM | Link to this

Hawks down by 5 to Philly, Bibby is playing great, so are Marvin and Zaza.

By Blast

January 11, 2009 3:12 PM | Link to this

The refs are shafting us again. Hawks cannot buy a call in their own gym. I guess tied for fourth in the East means nothing to the refs. I’ll bet the Hawks have been awarded the fewest free throws in the league.

Halftime. Hawks down by 7.

By Sautee

January 11, 2009 3:19 PM | Link to this

From the box score it seems we’re not playing defense. 59 points in a half. Not 71, but still WAY too many.

By Blast

January 11, 2009 3:36 PM | Link to this

Hawks not playing well right now. Down 9.

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 11, 2009 3:45 PM | Link to this

How the hell do you give up a 60% shooting percentage to a team that has zero 3-point shooters and nobody with a refined post game?

This is a team full of slashers. I normally hate zone defense, but this might be the right game to switch to a zone for a while.

Of course, it would be nice if I could WATCH THE GAME…

By Sautee

January 11, 2009 3:54 PM | Link to this

Najeh

heard that!

By ray

January 11, 2009 4:03 PM | Link to this

Doc,

Every now and again, I get lucky and am right about something. I sure picked a heck of a time to be right: sure enough, the Sixers are deadlier without Brand than with him.

Not having Horford hurts. Not having him indefinitely makes me nervous. I don’t wish to borrow trouble (and I’m not panicking), but it is entirely possible that what Kirk hints at might be coming, if we are not very careful…because after this…we go West.

We need another big. Whether the guy is starting lineup material or just a vet to have off the bench.

I see Bibby, Marvin, and JJ are playing well, although I don’t understand Marvin’s number of turnovers. OH well, comes with aggressiveness I guess. Still…uncharacteristic of him.

Looks like we’re trying to win the day with our backcourt again. Although I’m not sniffing too hard at a combined 40 points from Bibby and JJ. But we really need that inside presence. Not going to get it today, I see.

Ugh…missed free throws…again.

By harrythehawk

January 11, 2009 4:07 PM | Link to this

Najeh:

Ditto!

By ray

January 11, 2009 4:12 PM | Link to this

This is a team full of slashers. I normally hate zone defense, but this might be the right game to switch to a zone for a while.

Very good point. Now if only we could get a certain somebody to figure that out…

By ray

January 11, 2009 4:15 PM | Link to this

Bibby’s hot.

Murray’s not.

And Royal Ivey gets twice the minutes Acie does. The universe is unbalanced, I swear… :)

By Blast

January 11, 2009 4:23 PM | Link to this

3:43 to go and Hawks down by 11. It doesn’t look good, folks.

By Sautee

January 11, 2009 4:26 PM | Link to this

Live by the jumpshot……

By Blast

January 11, 2009 4:32 PM | Link to this

0-3 skid. Western road trip coming up. No Al Horford and the Hawks playing like they don’t care. What is wrong with this team?

We solely need a big man that can score and defend. Right now our offence is perimeter oriented, and when jump shots are not falling, the Hawks lose the ball game.

By Sautee

January 11, 2009 4:35 PM | Link to this

Philly shot 54.7% from the field, 60% from 3 pt., and out-rebounded us by 39-24. Those are ugly stats, and it’s frightening to go on the road with that as your last memory.

By Sautee

January 11, 2009 4:38 PM | Link to this

new blog up

By bigdave

January 11, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this

I think a move HAS to made… plain and simple.. we can not continue to play as a perimeter team with only two legitimate threats from outside of 18ft.

If there was only a way to land a Sheed, Amare… Boozer..? we could and would actually be contenders…

By Dan

January 11, 2009 4:57 PM | Link to this

Plain and simple, after getting killed in Orlando the other night, you would expect the Hawks to come out with more energy and a sense of urgency to turn things around. We saw niether! It doesn’t seem like this team was prepared to come out out and play today. That falls on the coach. His responsability is to get them prepared to play. No matter how much talent we have, their are too many mistakes being made. For instance; 1- Joe Johnson stop dribbling so much. Move the ball around. Swing it from one side of the floor to the other. Why do you think that Phil Jackson’s Triangle Offense works so good, it adds flow to the offense. 2- Joe johnson when you penetrate, you don’t have to do the impossible to get the shot to go in. This isn’t the playground, there are officials that will call the foul and get you to the line. Talk to Nique about that, I’m sure he can show you how that works. 3- Josh Smith stop shooting three’s. You have no business shooting from out there. Thats not your game. Your game is driving to the basket, using your explosive athletic ability and the ocassional mid-range jump shot. 4- Marvin Williams has to play more under control. He’s commiting too many turnovers. 5- Mike Woodson have these guys shoot free-throws in practice til they demonstrate that they are professionals and stop choking at the line. It is costing us too many games.

The Hawks have enough talent to not have to rely solely on Joe Johnson’s one on four drives. It’s as simple as moving the ball til you find the open man.

Fellow bloggers, tell me what you think. Am I right or wrong?