Hawks

By winterville

December 29, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

yessir

By Show me state

December 30, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

20-10 Go Hawks!!!

By SQUAWKER

December 30, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

JOE JOHNSON IS A SUPERSTAR!

GO HAWKS, INDEED!!!!

Sekou, why can’t Acie seem to find the floor? Does Woody not realize how he is stunting his growth?

By Fred B.

December 30, 2008 1:30 AM | Link to this

Sekou, you said it: By any means necessary! The hawks have used this homestand to their advantage. They knew going in that if they took care of the games at home they would be in good shape.Look no further than the way Orlando has played (even though they lost at Detroit). If they were not careful Orlando could have easily run away with the division. I know it’s still early in the season but the last thing the Hawks want is to have to play catch up the entire season. The two games we have with them next week are gonna be big!!! GO HAWKS!!!

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 2:08 AM | Link to this

I’m still loving it! 20-10 and showing signs of resilience they’ve never shown before.

Winning in a different manner from game to game looks ugly to some, but really is a sign that the Hawks can beat a team in different ways.

Winning as a group means that they have bought into something. Some would say they’re “playing the right way”, others insist they’re winning despite being handicapped by a bad Head Coach.

Whatever is, I hope they keep on doing. Losing streaks are going to happen as well and coming out of the next one when it happens is going to be the next true test of this team.

It will be interesting to see how much the Hawks are challenged by Pacers now that they are healthier and fresher.

Go Hawks!!

By Real Hawks Fan 85

December 30, 2008 2:11 AM | Link to this

I’m so proud of them Hawks I could pinch somethin!! Will you people get off of the Acie thing please his time will come when it comes it’s not about him no way it’s about this amazin team.

By Ed

December 30, 2008 2:44 AM | Link to this

We are all happy about the Hawks record, but concerns about not playing Acie (& Solo) are legit as it is a long season & hopefully a long playoff run. Not only does it rest the starters more it gives these guys valuble experience that could be needed in case of an injury.

By happyhawk

December 30, 2008 5:02 AM | Link to this

bibby is like invincible right now…joe and bibby best backcourt in the league. :D

By G Money

December 30, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this

Again, I am as excited as any fan about the continuing maturation of this team. What they have done at home is nothing short of outstanding.

It will be interesting to see if they can maintain this momentum on the road. It will also be interesting to see how they handle Orlando.

Hats off to all the Hawks. I’ve been one who was echoing Clyde’s call to fire Woody. However, his focus on defense is paying dividends. I’d still like to see better offensive plays called at crucial times, but who would have thought just a year ago that Marvin would be our “stopper” and be a serious threat from 20ft out to beyond the 3 pt line? Bibby is playing as well as he can - if he were a little quicker, it would help but it’s all about team defense and team offense now. It’s great to witness! Go Hawks!

By doc

December 30, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this

kirk you better watch out, you might be more flexible than you think and upgrade your expectations./ yeah it was a really good win as they are beginning to put their stamp on and recognize who how and what they are.

i will echo your thoughts, there are going to be some losses and maybe some strung together but as long as they stay healthy they wont be long ones strung together and followed with just as many wins. yes, they will come down a bit and maybe even back up over the season but they are primed to do something special with bibby and jj as their leaders. i think these guys are co-leaders as they have begun to feed off each other, a compliment to the other and see it that way.

By Joe

December 30, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

Having sat through all of the games over the last few years, it is so refreshing to know that the 4th quarter is now the Hawks’ quarter.

How many games, over the last 4 years, did the Hawks play another team even through 3, only to give up an 8-0 or 12-2 run in the middle of the 4th.

Now the Hawks are feeling the opponent out for 3 quarters and crushing them in the 4th.

It is amazing. Never thought I would say this, but a lot of credit goes to Billy Knight. The doldrums we had to go through make the present that much sweeter.

By dap01

December 30, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

Great job Hawks!

Get AC and Solo more PT and this team will continue to develop.

By O'brien

December 30, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

How many times have we seen Flip hold the ball for the last possession of the quarter but turn it over and give the other team a chance to score at the end of the clock?

And 2 things Josh needs to do: 1) Stop taking 3 pointers 2) Give the ball up on the break (stop dribbling - too many turnovers)

That being said, great win last night for the Hawks, and ESPN seems to be taking notice (finally). On NBA Fastbreak, the first highlight was Magic/Det, but the Nuggets/Hawks was next, and they even talked about how good (and young) the Hawks are.

By ProudTechFan

December 30, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

wow what i have witnessed the past couple of weeks is nothing short of amazing. I really dont know where to begin. First of all i think we have to give a ton of credit to Marvin Williams. We saw his game take a big step at the beginning of the season knocking down huge three pointers. But as of late, his shot hasnt really been falling so he has had the maturity to start taking the ball to the rack and is finishing strong or getting fouled. I cant even begin to explain how big it is to see bibby shooting virtually lights out from every where on the floor. i mean the basket has to be like 10 feet wide to this guy. Joe hasnt taken a bad shot all season. I honestly dont think the guy is going to miss whenever he shoots. He went through a mild slump a few weeks ago, but since then, he’s been on fire and i hope it continues on the road. This has been a real treat for us REAL non bandwagon hawks fans, and i hope this ride continues the rest of the season. We cant win them all and there are still gonna be bumps here and there, but i dont think we will be seeing the old Hawks for a while.

GO HAWKS!!!!

By Samuel

December 30, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

I’m still waiting for some Real Love for Mike Woodson. You guys are tiptoeing around the fact the he has captained this ship. Cuz, I didn’t see his name mentioned one time. What’s up with that?

Some of you keep crying about Acie’s DNPs and Joe’s too many minutes. Maybe Joe and Bibby need these minutes to stay hot. Whatever it takes, By Any means Necessary, the Hawks and Woodson are getting it done.

A defensive minded team will have no serious losing streaks. We got the formula, we just have to stick to it.

Woody=COY

By BeFrank

December 30, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Great win last night Hawks!!! Let’s take the same attitude and approach on the road and get some wins now! I agree with the concern that Acie and Solo will be needed late in the season and possibly the playoffs—and that requires that they get playing time now! I hope Coach finds a way to get them some meaningful minutes. Also don’t overlook the importance of Mario during the playoffs when possessions get tough and a lot of energy is required. Kudos to BK because his plan is paying great dividends. Kudos to RSund because he recognized that only a little tweaking was required! It’s all good in Atlanta baby!

By hawk_4_life

December 30, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

Sam actually I have always been an advocate for Woody but in the past its was solely because he was the coach not because of his body of work. Now his record speaks for itself and he is without a doubt coach of the year (so far).

By daniel

December 30, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Way to go Hawks! I will take a 7-1 homestand anytime. A couple of quick points. Kudos to Josh Smith, who is clearly playing injured, for passing on the early clock threes and driving the lane. We see you improving bro. Also, I loved Bibby’s comments after the game where he said that they play “pretty good” at home but need to take it on the road. Ahhh, veteran leadership that is what I am talking about. Let’s go Hawks

By doc

December 30, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

no starter with 40 last night.

By Ben

December 30, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

Samuel, at this rate, our legs will be dead in Feb/March when we face brutal road trips and play 4 in 5 nights. Joe and Bibby are on the path to major injuries

By ray

December 30, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Whatever is, I hope they keep on doing. Losing streaks are going to happen as well and coming out of the next one when it happens is going to be the next true test of this team.

True that, but I think the key to passing tests like that is something this team is already learning: how to win in different ways. Plus, you have to cut the length of the losing streaks. Two or three games is one thing. When you start getting into 4, 5, 6…it’s hard to maintain focus. Only the good teams dig out of the bigger holes. Then again, there’s only one sure way to learn how to do that. Don’t want to see it happen though, with a team that’s enjoying winning for the first time. We’ll see how it goes. In the meantime…avoidance of lengthy losing streaks can only be a good thing.

Don’t know what the expectations were of everybody here, but 20-10 looks very good no matter how you slice it. Very good indeed. One of the biggest keys has been the ball movement and the movement without the ball, particularly by the wing and low post players. I saw one play coming out of a timeout where a lob was thrown to Josh. I can only assume that Woody drew that up or approved the suggestion to do so. Good for him. Nobody saw it coming (because we almost never do it) and Josh was more open than Steve Smith on a fade route.

One thing to keep in mind: this team as a whole is going to take a bit of time to get used to so much ball movement (c’mon, you know we haven’t always played like this). Guys are going to miss on passes and turn the ball over here and there. It happens. I watched everybody do it, from Bibby to Horford. As they get used to it, it will become much more crisp and brutally effective, though we’ve seen this already.

I don’t know about COY, but I’m all in favor of BOY (Backcourt Of the Year). In fact, that just sounds better all the way around. After all, didn’t somebody once say that the coach could come up with whatever play designs he wanted, but it would be for naught if the players didn’t execute? Didn’t somebody say it’s all about the players? Well the players are getting it done, and the execution has started right where it should have: the backcourt. Yeah, BOY sounds good to me…

By Ben

December 30, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

ProudTechFan,

Good post, but one thing is wrong:

“Joe hasnt taken a bad shot all season”

Are you serious? He took at least 2 bad shots last night and always will take an awkward fadeaway jumper every game

By some sense

December 30, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

You are the best thing about the whole “Hawks thing”.

By Samuel

December 30, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Yes Ray I did. That’s what makes a good coach. One who let’s the players play. Most of you guys kept saying how bad Woody’s offensive play calling was. Am I right? Calling for the likes of rejects such as: Avery Johnson, Flip Sanders,Eddie Jordan,Sam Vincent and Larry Brown. Even comedians like: Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson.

The coaching usually comes in getting the players to play defense and rebounding and Woodson is a master, evidently.

Yes, it is about the players. Some coaches just don’t understand that.

Also, a good coach doesn’t listen to armchair quarterbacks such as we have here. He sticks to what he knows.

So, if there’s a such thing as COY then: Woody=COY

By the way,

Where’s your sidekick? I really miss a good novel every once in a while. Oh yea, we’re winning. What’s there to write about?

By dap01

December 30, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Sekou/others:

Would the Hawks have any interest in Sean Williams from NJ?

Do you anticipate any tweaking to our roster as the year progresses?

By SC

December 30, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

Are the hawks looking to resign bibby to a new deal? any word?

By O'brien

December 30, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Samuel, I am not a Woody fan by any means. But I think he did a good job last night. I was impressed that we actually had designed plays coming out of 2 time-outs (including the lob).

My 2 biggest issues with Woody are his offensive system (4 years later, what is it?) and his handling of bench players. However, these are very correctable, and offensively, we’ve been playing well on this home stand. Once Woody helps the bench guys get consistent PT and some confidence, the sky is the limit. Because he does get the Hawks to play defense.

By Fritz

December 30, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

With all due respect to those who are heralding Woody as COY, there are still signs of trouble that have been overshadowed by our 20-10 record and this last great homestand.

I’m concerned that Woody is going to wear out this team and that the short rotation is going to bring fatigue as the season wears on. Why Acie is in the doghouse is a total mystery but the body language last night when he put Acie in with less than two minutes left left the unmistakeable impression that things are not well. Not a good situation. Acie has talent that needs to be developed and that we may need in the long run. Why Solomon doesn’t get a run to give someone a breather also mystifies me when early in the season he was showing improvement and some mettle when given a chance.

But the biggest concern I have is how he is overusing JJ. In the history of our franchise only 10 players have played more than 3000 minutes in a season. Of these Lou Hudson did it 4 times, Dominique 3 times, Jason Terry 3 times, and Blaylock twice. Not including JJ, the most minutes logged in a season was by Christian Laettner at 3140 minutes (38.3 minutes per game). Not a single one of these players averaged over 40 minutes a game. In JJ’s three seasons here under Woody he has consistently averaged over 40 minutes per game, 40.8 last year (3,343 minutes), 41.4 in ‘06-‘07 (an injury shortened season), and 40.7 in ‘05-‘06 (3,340 minutes). This year Woody’s been able to give him a breather - he’s cut his minutes to 39.9 per games (LOL!).

There’s no way JJ isn’t affected by the heavy load he is bearing and if Woody doesn’t figure out a way how to rest him I fear he’ll wear out this season, and worse his career will be shortened.

If we can’t find a way to develop Acie (God knows Flip Murray is NOT the answer) so that he can have another body to spell Joe, then we need Sund to come up with some answers.

It feels great to be a Hawk fan right now, but I don’t see how we can keep it up throughout a grueling season.

By BA

December 30, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

I for one was a Woodson advocate long before it was trendy. I echo what Ray said about the call for that lob coming out of the time out.

Did anybody else notice Bibby call the play shortly thereafter, with Horford cutting in for that demoralizing dunk?

This offense is evolving. As these young players continue to improve, I think you’ll see more and more variety in regards to play calling.

Did y’all realize that during the current winning streak, Bibby is 17 for 25 from downtown? That’s ridiculous!

When guys are playing at the level Bibby and Johnson are, you keep them on the floor, injuries be damned. You can’t win in the NBA if an overriding fear of potential injuries dictates your use of the rotation.

And for the record, I think it’s safe to say we don’t win last night’s game if you replace Flip’s minutes with Acie Law. Law’s plenty talented, but games like that (13 points in 18 minutes) are the reason they signed Murray in the first place.

By Astro Joe

December 30, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Samuel, I agree, Woody MUST get some credit… a lot of credit. I would almost say that the ASG gets credit for “staying the course” but my guess is that they are the benefactors of maintaining the status quo for financial reasons and not because of any patient wisdom.

Last night’s game made me realize that Bibby Must be Re-Signed. I think it was the scene of JJ and Bibby sitting next to each other enjoying the accomplishment of a goal. And when Marvin came over and said something to them, it was clear that they were a happy family. Sure, winning brings out the best in everyone, but it was a sign that two guys who seem fairly reserved on the floor, JJ and Bibby, are really enjoying each other’s company. The chemistry they’re forming now will sustain them in tough times. And Sund needs to keep this talented duo together for the next 2-3 seasons. Re-sign Bibby.

I’m done with asking about Acie and/or Speedy. Bibby is the right PG for this team over the next 2-3 seasons. What Bibby has done for this team over past 60-70 games is comparable to what Billups has done for the Nuggets in the past 20 games. We’re just too close (or jaded) to see it. Re-sign Bibby!

By No COY just OK

December 30, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Hawks are doing great. Beyond my expectations. I must agree that Woody will play Joe and Bibby to death. He MUST play AC AND Solo and even Mario more. I think Mario is the quikest guy on the team. He could give those small opposing pg’s HELL while Bibby is resting. Then Mike could come in and burn them.

All those minutes are going to kill the Hawks come playoff time. Why is Woody so stubborn. I still think the Hawks are winning in Spite of Woody. GO HAWKS!!!!

By beau gust

December 30, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

After last night’s game, Woody said it was good to rest Joe and Bibby some last night, and took responsibility for using a short rotation. He said he’d have to find a way to get more players into the rotation, like he had at the beginning of the season. Maybe Joe said something to him… In any case, it’s good to hear that he recognizes the need, at least intellectually. Now he just needs to carry through.

It helps when the hawks open a lead so it’s “safe” to bring in the less experienced players. A lot of games this year have been played with a 5 -7 point lead, max, until the final minutes.

By Mike is back

December 30, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Doc, well said on the Dynamic Duo. They are starting feed off each others, which is infuses the whole team.

Samuel, cooooooooooooool down Wit Ya Bad Self!!!!!!!! Yeah you called it on Woody, Your on fiiiiiiiire right now dawg!!! But I even heard Woody during his post game interview express a need to curtail the minutes of the starters, and get back to the way they were played during that 6 – 0 run. I think that was a signal he will start to use his bench more…which is what most where saying all alone.  I look for Acie, and Solo to start to get a little day…What happen from there is up to them. Hmmmmmmmmmmm 

Ray,  your post:

One thing to keep in mind: this team as a whole is going to take a bit of time to get used to so much ball movement (c’mon, you know we haven’t always played like this). Guys are going to miss on passes and turn the ball over here and there. It happens. I watched everybody do it, from Bibby to Horford. As they get used to it, it will become much more crisp and brutally effective, though we’ve seen this already.

Was on point, and coincide with the point I was making about the need to keep getting the ball in the post. Our post players are not All Stars at their perspective position, but they play hard, and they hustle. The more touches they get, the better their play will improve, because the timing just isn’t there yet. I think that’s what starting to make this engine pickup steam, we are using a balance attack, and getting guys easy looks in the post…That’s when you see these kinds of dominate performances out of the Hawks.

Hey, I like what I’m  seeing in Marvin, man the ferocity he has when he goes to the hole now, not to mention the stout defense against some the top players in the league. Boy you tell that its only a matter of time before some of drives to the hole are dunks, if that happens…LOOK OUT!!!!

Belkin will have memories of BK standing around like a Ghost , dancing around to sad slow tuuuuuuuuune. Heh heh

GO HAWK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Khao$

December 30, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

The next four games we play NJ, Orlando, Indiana, and Houston. We should have beaten Houston in Texas in my opinion. Orlando is beatable, but tough. NJ and Indiana scares me the most. We never seem to play well against those squads. In fact our worst losses of the year came against these two squads. NJ did the improbable and beat us two nights in a row. Indiana gave us our worst loss of the year. Plus, they always give us fits in Conseco. For this team to truly get over the hump and become elite, we have to learn how to beat teams like these.

By Samuel

December 30, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

I believe you guys are making too much out of this minutes thing. If Nique, Hudson, Mookie and others can do it why not JJ? They turned out pretty good. Nique had some pretty fair playoff performances didn’t he?

Furthermore, what’s wrong with a guy actually wanting to earn his money. In an age of overpaid athletes, it’s refreshing to see a guy actually earn his. (if you wanna call playing Basketball work).

It’s not like the man is laying brick for 12 hours a day in 100 degree weather. 40 minutes a day, WOW, slave labor.

By doc

December 30, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

mike that is funny. you took the words out of my mouth as i began to think of them in terms of batman and robin after i walked away from my computer this am.

By Ryder

December 30, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Ben you seem to be nothing but a hater, go root for the Bobcats or something while we true Hawks fans who were here (Astro/Anakin Joe, Doc, Ray, Samuel) when the Hawks were living out the Antoine Walker days and 13-69 seasons are celebrating their growth!

Indiana does scare me as well tonight. Granger and Murphy seems to own Atlanta and I do believe we will see an Acie Law sighting tonight. Woodson (whom I must also give credit to) must take advantage of the depth of this team and rest JJ more for the fourth quarter. After playing 8 games at home let’s hope Woodson will keep the Hawks focused when the crowd is rooting against them.

The next few games will be a barometer of how much the Hawks have grown mentally. Winning on the road will be crucial before Atlanta goes on the first of their two West Coast trips in 2009.

I still can’t believe we’re reliving this Sean Williams issue. I think at this time there should be no in-season changes, and let the team chemistry continue to grow before the playoffs take shape.

By O'brien

December 30, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

JJ needs his rest to stay efficient and effective. We had games last year (towards the end of the season) where JJ was not very effective in the 4th quarter and I think part of that was being so tired from the long season, and playing so many minutes. Because of Bibby, JJ does not have to work as hard as he did last year, but he still needs more breathers.

Keep in mind, he was not very effective on the road in the playoffs last year (most of the Hawks weren’t). And it’s easier to play well at home, especially with the crowd energy. But in the playoffs on the road, your own energy is needed. When you’re tired, it can affect you mentally and physically, on offense and defense. We are just afraid that our allstar/superstar will get worn down.

By ray

December 30, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Samuel,

Was that you that said all that? It was? Really? Heh, heh. Nothing like being on the other end of the bait and switch, eh? I told you: any agreement with you has to be followed by me messing with you on the next post. The balance must be kept! I’m playin’, I’m playin’…heh heh!

Man, I haven’t heard from Ando in days. I know he’s out of town, visiting relatives throughout the holidays. You know he’ll be back (don’t make me look like a liar, Ando).

There’s plenty to write about though, and if you feel like it, check out the Hawks Hacks blog (endorsed by your Cuz, so you know it’s not a Hawks Hatas place). I actually just typed up a new blog a few minutes ago, so check it out and tell me what you think. Good luck finding it, you’ll probably have to google it. The new title is “Two out of Three” , so you have a bit of help finding it.

I expect the blog will be in the same spot as the old Hawks Hack blog after the holidays are over. Until then….

I’m no blogmaster like yo Cuz, but I’m learning from him, seeing as how he’s the best. Yep, I’m sitll the cricket, and he’s still the mighty crouching Tiger, and always will be.

Look dude, I give Woody credit for holding it together. More importantly, he has not disturbed the flow. Bibby has helped establish a penchant for great ball movement. Instead of Woody getting all wrapped around the axle and trying to force these guys back into walking it up the court, then running a small number of limited offensive plays, he has gone with the flow. I’ve never seen anything indicating that HE came up with this offense, but he has done nothing to discourage or disrupt it, all the while maintaining his demand for consistent, excellent defense.

I realize we are just going to disagree on the use of the bench, and the amount of minutes played by the starters. That’s no big deal. Some of us have stated our concerns, and you call it hater-ism. You state your absolute, unconditional love for the man…and heh..well, we won’t go there, but that’s just how it stands. If the team continues the way it has to the end of the season, I’ll bet the temperature will change on him big time. I’m sure you can wait until then.

No professional listens too hard to the armchair quarterbacks on the blog. True, or at least one would hope not, anyway. I doubt they listen to the middle/junior high/high school coaches either, or any others of us that don’t collegiate or professional basketball. Why would Woodson? This is a blog. A place created for armchair quarterbacks….

By terrell barron

December 30, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

My 2 biggest issues with Woody is his offensive system(4 yrs later, what is it?) and his handling of bench players. I agree totally!! Well said Obrien.

By Sekou K. Smith

December 30, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Woody deserves plenty of credit Steamboat. For me that goes without saying. For all the heat he’s taken over the years, he shouldn’t be left out of the congrats parade.

As for the concerns about Acie and Solomon not playing, I share those as well, but I’m always reminded that it’s a long season. And there could very well come a time when one or both of those guys are needed to fill in for someone for whatever reason.

If, and more reasonably when that happens, we’ll see if the approach being taken now is the right or wrong one. I think Solomon has already made clear that he’ll be a capable contributor when called upon.

Acie’s situation is a bit more vexing for me, mostly because I think back to the playoff series against Boston when the Hawks needed a Plan B at the point and didn’t have one because Acie had played so sparingly.

But again, we’re only 30 games into an 82-game season. Things could change at any moment.

Bibby is playing lights out right now. And if anything, I think he’s rendered the trade deadline as just another day right now. The decision on his future with this team has to be made in the summer. And the entire season has to be taken into account when you make that call.

But you couldn’t ask for more out of the guy right now.

By JerryWest

December 30, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Kristic just joined the Thunders.

How many centers do they need?

Kristic, Collison, Sene, Wilcox, Swift, Petro, Joe Smith.

They just waived defensive big man Steven Hill. Stiff on offense but intelligent & big time shot blocker.

By Jim Burn is Roaming

December 30, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

Atlanta has 20 wins before Jan. 1!! Wow!! First time since ‘86.

Just before the Chicago game, I suggested that the next 8 games would “define” the Hawks season and I still stick to that. I hypothesized that they could go 2-6,suggesting that they could lose to chicago or denver.

Well, they are 2-0 on that prediction, but they have formidable foes in Indy, Houston, NJ, Orlando, at Orlando, Philly.

These teams have given Hawks trouble in the most recent past. If they can come through the next 6games, unscathed, they will be 26-10, and will have narrowed the gap between them and Orlando, with the 3rd seed.

The Hawks really need the 3rd seed to make it to the Eastern Conference Finals. The 3rd seed will have them facing Cleveland in the semi finals rather than Boston and facing Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals.

JBR

By JerryWest

December 30, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

If Solo & Acie develop, they can fix most of Hawks’ weaknesses. Organically without a surgery.

A pg who doesn’t turn the ball over and isn’t selfish. A defensive shot blocking big man.

Woody may finally have the confidence that he won’t be fired if he loses a game or two for mistakes by the youngstars. He already has his hands full with boneheaded Flip & Smoove.

Mo needs to stay awake on offense.

Marvin’s 3 pt % is way down when Smoove plays. I wonder if the positioning is effecting him? Smoove should never stand outside the 3 pt line.

How about Acie setting up 3 pt shots for Bibby/JJ/Marvin(pf) for a few minutes. Penetrate and pass it for open 3.

Flip iso at the end of quarter isn’t working. How many more turnovers?

Middle of 3rd quarter against the Nuggets: 10 passes in 24 seconds. Ended with an offensive rebound and foul because defense was in total disarray. Simply beautiful.

By G Money

December 30, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

As I said before, the real key to getting bench players more playing time is putting teams away earlier. The sooner the killer instinct is developed and mastered, the sooner the end of the bench will get more minutes.

Additionally, this home stand hasn’t been that taxing - no airplanes to get on, no middle of the night hotel check ins, no changing time zones or changing climates. For those who travel, you know what kind of wear and tear that places on a body. It’s gonna be all right with JJ and Bibby. Everyone has to stay injury free. As much as it may be about minutes, it’s more about conditioning, maintenance, and luck!

By O'brien

December 30, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Now is the time for the bench players to get consistent PT, because that will help with their confidence (and execution), especially if called upon later in the season for extended periods of time.

Yes, they are professionals and should be able to stay motivated, but it helps when you get a lot of practice in real game situations. The impression I get is that our bench (Acie and Solo specifically)will only see consistent PT if the game is a blow out, or if one of our other players gets injured.

However, although Woody has not kept his word at times (1)he promised to give Acie more time earlier in the year, 2)he promised to use more of his bench before the season started 3)last year in the playoffs he said he needs to use Acie to slow down Rondo 4) last year he said we would run more — none of which happened), I hope he will follow through because he said he has to find minutes for his bench like he was doing when we were 6-0. I hope he keeps it this time.

By JerryWest

December 30, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Players who missed our 8 game home stand

1st team: Big Z Gooden Deng Steph Jackson Ellis

Bench: Nene Maxiell Meggette Heinrich Gibson

Diaw+Bell just joined the Bobcats when we played them.

We had injury God on payroll.

Big Z+ Maxiell+ Nene + Gooden could have made this a 3-5 stand. They have played monstar games against the tiny Hawks before.

By Samuel

December 30, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Actually JJ’s minutes played are slightly down from the past 4 years.

Michael Jordan averaged 40 minutes a game 3 years in a row and went over 39 min per three other years. He averaged 38.3 for an entire 16 years. Bird averaged 38.4.

These guys played these type minutes despite playing in: the Allstar game every year, the playoffs and Finals. They turned out pretty good.

JJ is a throw back and thank God. His first two years he only averaged 26 minutes so he’s got a lot of catching up to do. Let’s stop complaining and enjoy this budding star. We are not good enough yet to have our best player on the bench. If we continue to get better and start putting distance between ourselves and the scrubbs of the league, then and only then should JJ get any rest.

Heat Check, Fan him and feed him!!

Woody=COY

By Ernest

December 30, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Just read on the ESPN site that Krstic will go to the Thunder since the Nets did not match. This give the Thjunder an abundance of big men. Given Rick Sund came from that organization, he might have the kind of relationships in place to get one. Chris Wilcox sure would look good coming off the Hawks bench. Any takers on this?

By JerryWest

December 30, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

When JJ gets enough rest he plays like a superstar. I hope Woody gets that.

I rather play the Celtics or Magic in playoffs than the Cavs. There is no way Bibby can guard Harris. NJ scares me.

Is Ford sitting out tonight? That could decide the game? He is unguardable for Bibby. Good thing we have Smoove back.

By ray

December 30, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Mike is Back,

Word up on Marvin. Dude has flipped a switch or something. Whatever it is, I like it, and never want to see it end. He learned how to step up when Josh was out. Now he’s continued that trend, and learned how to elevate his game to the level we’ve always wanted to see out of him. I love it!

Astro Joe,

That’s a good point. Based on what we see, re-signing Bibby (if he wants to stay here) would seem like a great thing to do…all else being equal. Think hard on what “all else being equal” means…

BA,

Great points about the increasing variety of play calls.

You make solid points about JJ and Bibby playing so well (and thus the desire to keep them on the floor). And it makes for a wonderful debate.

I submit to you the case of the 2007-2008 Boston Celtics.

Did not Doc Rivers have three all-stars at his disposal last year? Yet none of them played more than an average of 37 minutes for the season, with most of them playing 35 mpg.

Would the Celtics have been so fresh and ready for the grueling grind of the playoffs, all the way through the Finals, had Doc ridden his stars for 40+ per game all season? Samuel made a point a while back that Boston’s reserves (Davis, Posey, Brown, and Powe) man-handled Pau Gasol, Odom, Walton, and Co during the Finals. Would they have been able to do that if Doc Rivers was intent on enjoying his wonderful starters (and largely neglecting his bench?

Without solid, adequate playing time…how do the Celtics reserves stay in any kind of rhythm, filling the role of the sub who keeps up the intensity of the game, running the same successful plays as the starters? By playing steadily. Each man has to be ready. Practice is where you learn the plays and prepare. Game time is where you learn to be ready.

As for Law vs. Murray. Come on dude. No, you did not go to the stat game. Now we’ll be here all day, throwing stats at each other!! If 13 points in 18 minutes is impressive, then what is 20 points, 6 dimes, and 7 boards in 23 minutes? Or did you forget that happened, and who did it…

I know why Murray was signed. Maybe you’re right, and we don’t win without 13 points from Flip last night, having replaced him with Acie. Maybe. But if you want to know what the odds of that are…consider something (and don’t take this as me bashing Flip..I like the guy). We’ve played 14 games in December. In those 14 games, Flip has scored in double figures 4 times. The other 10 games, he scored 6 points or less. The three games prior to this one, he had averaged over 17 minutes per. His contribution was 4 points, 6 points, and 2 points. My point? Like it or not, it’s feast or famine with this guy here in the last month. More famine than feast, and I’m not sure why. He was a lot better in November.

Wonder why he’s a journeyman? I don’t. Again, I like the guy. And I don’t say we should just cut him out because we need to develop Law. I think we can accomplish both at once. What I don’t get is why some people don’t give a rat’s a$$ about a guy we picked #11 in the draft? Did we not draft him to be the future? Did we draft him to be a backup? If that’s the case, we could’ve traded down or traded for a backup, not picked one at #11…

So the plan is re-sign Bibby for a few more years and then let Law play? Or just get rid of Law? Where’s the successor? I wonder if the Rockets would have been so successful years ago if Rudy Tomjanovich kept Kenny “The Jet” Smith in the game all the time (especially during the playoffs) and left a certain young guy named Sam Cassell chained to the bench….

I’m just sayin’….

By Mike is back

December 30, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Jim Burn is Roaming, Woodson should be diametrically oppose to any such foolish thinking. The Hawks can ill-afford to be focus on playoff seating this early in the season. Win baby, just win should be the Hawks Mantra. They have to continue to build momentum and improve as a team one game at a time. Winning streaks are tenuous at best.  Philly was dupe into believing all the hype at the beginning of the season. The Hawks don’t want to fall into that trap. That stifling defense will control their destiny.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

doc, no sorry, I’ll lead the cheers, but it will be with my feet planted firmly on the ground.

I love the team, but I’m not completely sold yet. The NBA season is very long and brutal and a team’s velocity can change quickly. More importantly, this team does not have a winning season, let alone a track record that I could base an expectation that they will have a home court seed come playoff time.

My hopes are different. Hope is based mainly on emotion and so I can point to the improve play and the unexpected weakness of some teams, at least to this point in the season. So, I hope they challenge Orlando, and at least finish with a 4th seed.

I might be wrong, but at least I won’t be fooled again.

I hope I’m wrong, but if I am,one of the things I will enjoy will be reading the comments when Coach Woodson is given a lengthy extension as surely will be the case should the Hawks finish that highly. :)

Go Hawks!!

By kwooden1

December 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

First off, Thanks ray for the High Five. The Superstar discussion is fun but really just for circles outside of basketball. As for last night’s game, it really gets me excited because it starts people talking the way Jim Burn is Roaming is talking. (Conference Finals in the Playoffs !!!) Personally I’ve refused to think that far ahead, just game by game, but the way they have played last night makes that kind of discussion true reality not a fantasy! Again I only can follow the games on the internet, (a little radio on NBA.com) I gathered that the ball movement was very good and they played defense in the 4th. I think the double digit win comes from great shooting by JJ and Bibby. Things look really easy when their making 3s that consistently. (add Flip in the mix last night) They have really developed into a team that does the right things to win games. (rebound the ball and get stops when they need it)

As already stated, tonight is another great test because Indiana is a team that they definitely struggle against. They have to try and slow down Granger (but don’t let everyone else go off), plus cleanup the defensive boards. The last time I don’t think Zaza was healthy and JS was out. I agree with everyone about the minutes, so hopefully we will see some Solo and Acie. The problem is Woody’s a 7-8 rotation guy. I don’t think he knows what to do with 9-10 guys. He really believes in letting his starters and true reserves work through their mistakes. Woody’s around a 38min (starter) and 10min (reserve) guy. He needs to go to about 35min, 12min guy. I really hope that last 2 games were a good learning experience for him in terms of how effective his starters are when rested. (especially JJ) He’s going to have to take it upon himself to do this though, we all have to remember that basketball players never want to come out of the game.

Again, for tonight:

GO HAWKS!!!!

By blast

December 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Hawks are playing out of their minds right now. Weird that nobody wants to trade Mike Bibby anymore cos he makes 15 mil. He’s sure earning his $$ isn’t he? The Hawks need to resign him to a 3 year contract, 5-8 mil next summer. I’m sure he will like to stay in the Atl. He seems to be having fun playing with our bunch.

Joe has to play all those minutes because without him in the line up for long periods of time, our subs just cannot execute the way they need to. Joe draws doubles, and I would love to see Josh get some more doubles in the paint.

Yeah, Indiana and NJ gives us fits. I’m more worried about those two teams than Houston or Orlando. 2 games won out of the projected 8. Can anyone tell me the Hawks are going to lose 6 straight games? No way.

Go Hawks! You’all have made me a very happy fan indeed. We went through the bad times, now we have a team we can be really proud off. Imagine, the Hawks are the feature story today on espn.com!

By MannyT

December 30, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Statistics, used properly are like light sabers. May the force be with you ;-)

Interestingly, this is a point of concern that BK brought up in his last Town Hall meeting in the Spring.

Joe Johnson has averaged over 40 mpg in every season he has played for the Hawks. He had similar averages in his last 2 seasons in Phoenix.

At his peak, Dominique averaged 39.1 minutes per game when he was 26. He also averaged 30 ppg that season while making all of 13 three pointers. Mookie Blaylock, at his peak, averaged 39.1 mpg in the 96-97 season. Steve Smith, similarly averaged 39.1 mpg in both 96-97 and 97-98.

In the season that was the end of the last era of good Hawks ball when the Knicks made them look like old men in the 1999 playoffs, NO ONE averaged more than 37 minutes a game.

Woody’s approach is successful now. I give him credit. The biggest risk is what happens (and how the blame is spread) if one of the regulars goes down and the back ups do not have enough experience to comfortably fill in. In a nod to richbrave I caught the late parts of the Wiz vs the Rockets last night. Even in our current success, we have trouble with Yao and the boys. Playing without their best player (Caron Butler) they won with a bunch on young guys.

Their grizzled vet, Antwan Jamison led them with 30 points in just under 37 minutes. Coach Tapscott even found 3 minutes for Javaris Crittenton in a game they won by 2 points. I am not syaing Tapscott is a better coach than Woody. I am saying that he recognizes the need to play his younger players SOME. He stated that it is important to have the vets lead, so the young guys won’t get most of the minutes, but they will play. I think we could benefit from the same sort of attitude for AC & Solo with JJ getting a few more minutes to rest.

Back to my holiday fun.

BWAF

By O'brien

December 30, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

These are the mpg averages for some other NBA stars.

Kobe 35.3, Lebron 36.4, KG 32.8 Pierce 36.5, Ray Allen 35.6 DWade 36.6, Vince Carter 37.4

JJ averages 39.9 mpg. We take him for granted because he’s old school and doesn’t mind playing 40 mpg. However, how can it not be beneficial (for the Hawks and for his longevity)to give him an extra 3-4 minutes of rest each game? Imagine having a well rested JJ in the 4th quarter, down the stretch, and in the playoffs.

Wwe have seen other teams make runs when JJ is in the game, so what’s the worst that could happen when we take him out? The other team makes a run? Our bench needs those opportunites to show what kind of players they are.

Ray is right. We have a #11 pick on the bench, and we still dont know if he is our future PG. One thing we do know is that Flip isn’t. Plus, when Flip is in the game, our ball movement slows down. And because its feast or famine, Woody needs to realize that Acie needs to come in for Flip when Flip is struggling. But instead, Flip will always get his minutes, no matter what.

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

The Hawks are 20-10 and people are still complaining!

The team is winning and people who never coached a day in the NBA want to nit pick the play calling and the systems? Really? Perhaps 20-10 really reads like 10-20 for some still stuck in the losing vortex of previous seasons.

I can’t believe with all the experts here, none has given consideration to the idea that Acie is not that good a player?

I hear the argument that Woodson should play him and Solo more, but you folks act as if there isn’t a price for doing that. The price is that somebody is going to have to play less minutes while Acie and Solo are “developed” in real game situations.

People keep talking about how many minutes JJ and others are playing. Is he leading the league in minutes played? Has anyone averaged the number of minutes he is averaging and gone on to have a good or great playoff run?Someone needs to show that players averaging X amount of minutes, at X age, are proven not to be able to perform at a high level once the playoffs arrive. If you can’t make that case, then there really is no need to worry about any players minutes, at this point.

It may be akin to the Bobby Cox philosophy, win as many as you can early so you don’t have as many headaches at the end of the season.

If Bibby and Flip remain healthy and productive, the so-called back up PG issue isn’t an issue except in the mind of some bloggers.

I’m not unsympathetic to Acie and Solo. It takes big men longer to develop on average so I would like to see more minutes for Solo, but our team is really young, with veterans coming off the bench.

I think working Solo into the rotation should be easier because of what he asked to do, mainly defend and rebound. With Acie, we’re talking far more responsibility and at this point Coach Woodson obviously believes winning now is more of an imperative than taking minutes away from some players to give to those who are 9-10th in the rotation.

It’s not enough to keep hollering for Acie and Solo. You have to make the case how doing so doesn’t compromise what the Hawks have going on now because you can’t have it both ways. The level of play will decrease with Acie at the point for significant minutes.With that decrease means an increase in the chance the Hawks lose ground while he’s in there and thus increases the chances to lose the game.

I can’t believe so many here are willing to take a gamble on breaking up this winning flow so Acie Law can get “developed”.

The team is winning now and to screw around with that is beyond dumb. In other words experts, please don’t fix what isn’t broken yet.

Go Hawks!!

By Jim Burn is Roaming

December 30, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

KWooden1 and Blast Bibby is coveted, so there is no way that we can resign him for 5-8. I think that there will be several teams vying for his services. Plus, the way the Hawks do their wait and see, Bibby won’t go through that. I think that they should offer him 10mil/yr for 3 yrs now. This would be a helluva a statement and comittment. I also think that JJ, who will be a free agent in 2010 would highly reconsider resigning with the Hawks, if Bibby is here. Package up Zaza, Acie, and Speedy to get a true big, with Bibby for the next 3 years and you are talking about something.

KWooden1 It is okay to start thinking about the finals. Thinking one game here and there is too short sighted. There is a book called BACKWARDS BY DESIGN where you start off with the end vision in mind and work backwards. By doing this, you will align yourself better with your end results.

Would the Hawks not be developing Acie and Solo, if they really felt that they could be in the conference finals? Start thinking Conference Finals now, then that would cause you to consider all of the things that you are doing now, like playing JJ, too many minutes, not developing Acie, Solo, Gardner, or Randolph Morris.

By Jim Burn is Roaming

December 30, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

There is no way that Atlanta can play up to June with a 7 man rotation.

Atlanta still has the rights to Chills and 2 draft picks. Do what you need to do to get what you need, if you have intentions on playing in June.

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

I wonder if the Rockets would have been so successful years ago if Rudy Tomjanovich kept Kenny “The Jet” Smith in the game all the time (especially during the playoffs) and left a certain young guy named Sam Cassell chained to the bench….

I wonder if the Pistons would have had the success they’ve had up until this season if Dumars had decided to keep “developing” Mateen Cleaves instead of trading him for a 1st round pick and Jon Barry, and signing Chauncey Billups? Cleaves was the 14th pick in 2000 and coming off a stellar college season with a championship on his resume.

What if Lenny Wilkens had decided he was going to “develop” Kevin Johnson and take away minutes from Mark Price? Would the Cavs still have been a dominant team?

I’m just sayin…

Go Hawks!!

By O'brien

December 30, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Kirkinga When Acie was at Texas A&M, he carried that program on his back his senior year. He was their best player, and he excelled, especially playing against good teams such as Texas and Kansas. He was their Mr. Clutch, consistently making big shots.

I find it hard to believe that he has regressed that much since coming to the NBA. And if that’s the case, then what could cause his regression? Woody? Lack of PT? (And when he gets consistent PT, there are flashes of how good he can be, so I dont think he has regressed).

Flip has been inconsistent, especially in December, so Acie could have gotten some of his minutes. If JJ averaged 3 less minutes, Acie could also get those minutes. Plus as good as Bibby is playing, somebody will offer him big money, and I dont know if the Hawks will pony up, especially with JJ, Marvin and Horford due extensions soon. So we need to find out what kind of NBA PG Acie can be.

However, that being said, I am very happy that the Hawks are 20-10, and I hope we can get a big road victory tonight (I think Marvin will slow granger down this time).

By ray

December 30, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

I love the team, but I’m not completely sold yet. The NBA season is very long and brutal and a team’s velocity can change quickly. More importantly, this team does not have a winning season, let alone a track record that I could base an expectation that they will have a home court seed come playoff time.

Holy Guacamole! Such sentiments were often expessed before and during the early parts of the season by that most evil of groups, The Ruling Rules (and labeled as negativism). Could it be that there is a secret member of this sect? Say it isn’t so… :) Where I come from, we call this an “echo.” :)

The team is winning and people who never coached a day in the NBA want to nit pick the play calling and the systems? Really? Perhaps 20-10 really reads like 10-20 for some still stuck in the losing vortex of previous seasons.

Okay, so who here on this blog has coached in the NBA? Anyone? Anyone at all? Okay, I guess that puts all of our opinions on the same level….I mean, being a blog and all. But hey, maybe we should have the same blind trust in the government, too. I mean, how many of us have spent a single day as a governor? Congressman? President? If we can’t criticize people involved in a mere sport, we sure better leave something as serious as politics alone…heh heh!

The team is winning now and to screw around with that is beyond dumb. In other words experts, please don’t fix what isn’t broken yet.

I tend to agree. That is, if you’re talking about fixing something that isn’t broken. But some of us are talking about “fine-tuning” and “maintenance”, not “repair.” Maintenance and fine-tuning are what helps cut down on breakages. You can’t prevent them outright, because they happen (like injuries).

But you can be better prepared for them. Of course, we all have differing opinions on that. I’d rather not see us lose key players and be completely caught with our pants down when all we have to turn to is guys whose shoes haven’t touched the court in 20 games…How quickly we forget how things were when Josh went down…and then Horford not long after.

What was our record during that stretch? Yes, we did weather the storm. That was an early-season storm. How will it be later on, when things are tighter. When teams have done fine-tuning of their own, gained chemistry of their own, added pieces of their own? The season gets harder, not easier as you go along. Teams fight for playoffs and playoff position after the all-star break. Do we want to be caught trying to figure out how to weather the storm then, or do we want to figure it out beforehand?

Lastly, let me throw out an analogy that will surely get hacked to pieces.

You buy a new car. It runs great. You drive it everywhere. It still runs great. Do you service it and check it periodically or not? After all, it RUNS GREAT RIGHT NOW, why should you check anything? Well, do you want to check that oil and change it before it gets all nasty, or do you want to wait until the oil light comes on, or you throw a rod out there on the road somewhere? Do you want to have those brake pads checked (and possibly changed) or do you want to wait until you need to stop, but can’t, and hit somebody/something? Should you check and refill that transmission fluid, or should you wait until the transmission can’t change gears and you’re literally stuck in traffic (with everybody honking like crazy at your stranded a$$)? Want to change that air filter? How about checking out those plugs and wires? Nah…you’ll know things went wrong when a couple of the engine’s cylinders won’t fire, and throws the whole sequence off. Don’t worry about rotating those tires, everything is fine! If one or two of them blow or show abnormal wear patterns that are problematic, you’ll then know it’s time to replace them. Hope you’re close to home….

Maintenance. Tuning. It’s what you do when you know tomorrow isn’t promised. It’s what you do when you want to cut down on the price and frequency of repairs. It’s not about FIXING…it’s about avoiding the need to do so.

By ray

December 30, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

I wonder if the Pistons would have had the success they’ve had up until this season if Dumars had decided to keep “developing” Mateen Cleaves instead of trading him for a 1st round pick and Jon Barry, and signing Chauncey Billups? Cleaves was the 14th pick in 2000 and coming off a stellar college season with a championship on his resume.

Good point. Which is why I’m not opposed to trading Acie if we’re not going to use or develop him. But do you see any such moves being made? Hmmmm? Oh wait…”if it ain’t broke, then don’t fix it”….right?

As it happens, Cleaves showed he wasn’t good enough to stay in the NBA for whatever reason. How many teams has Acie been playing for since he came into the NBA? I’d reserve a bit more judgement for the moment. Oh, and did not Billups have a solid back-up pg…um, guys like Lindsey Hunter? Would you call Flip a solid backup pg? If so, then why did Detroit and Indy let him go? I’d call him a solid backup sg. But do finish the Billups/Detroit story. Where is Billups now, and why is he there?

As for Kevin Johnson vs Mark Price….another good, supporting point. Not all situations are the same, and I do not use that as a disclaimer, it’s a fact. Is this the same Kevin Johnson that ended up going to the Phoenix Suns, who also were a dominant team?

Acie sits the bench. I fail to see what good he does us right now. And I don’t advocate slashing Bibby’s minutes in half. But I do advocate getting the man more ready to play whenever he might be needed. Unless of course the thought of Flip Murray being your sole option at pg just fills your soul…

By Astro Joe

December 30, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Ray, allow me to use any NFL analogy for basketball. Since Jon Gruden has been in Tampa, I’m pretty sure that he has exclusively used vet QBs and never taken the time to develop on on franchise QB. If not for the defense’s collapse in the past 2-3 weeks, that strategy would have put him back in the post-season. Woody clearly prefers.on on vet at the PG position. in theory, we could re-sign Bibby and eventually move him into Flip’s current role (or like Jason Terry in Dallas) once Law is ready to run the squad. But more likely, I could see us acquiring vet PGs for as long as Woody keeps the gig. In 2-3 seasons when Bibby begins to fade I can see us bringing in on on Delonte West, Chris Duhan or Hinrich to take over the squad. The key is keeping JJ which is why I think we need to make a strong offer to re-sign Bibby. With a SG like JJ a combo guard with a high IQ (Hinrich) would also excel in the backcourt.

By newkid

December 30, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Doc, been reading a bit lately on the relatively new area of medical science known as pharmacogenomics, and wondered if the general conclusions of this science (i.e., that care must be taken to consider the genetic make-up of a person as a huge influencing factor in the unique fashion in which that person’s body reacts to generalized medical treatments) should also be applied to discussions we’re having here about the impact JJ’s minutes might have on his readiness and effectiveness as the season progresses. How instructive is an evaluation of say Kobe’s minutes on his late-season readiness when one’s attempting to get one’s head around the impact of JJ’s minutes on his late-season readiness? Are NBA players (as a condition of their contracts) required to undergo genetic testing - by their teams - to facilitate development of more effective training regimen, exertion limitions, and medical care? If not yet, do you think this is an eventuality? Just asking?

By dap01

December 30, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Sekou/others:

Would the Hawks have any interest in Sean Williams from NJ?

Do you foresee any tweaking or additions at the trade deadline?

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Allen Iverson has averaged over 41 minutes a game for his career. This includes averaging close to 43 minutes with those great Philly teams of Coach Brown.

Jordon averaged around 40 minutes at the same age as JJ. Is there anyone who is willing to say he was in any way diminished come playoff time?

Heck, Bird averaged over 40 minutes a game when he was 30 and did just fine in the playoffs, IMHO.

Through 30 games this season, JJ is averaging under 40 minutes.I can see arguing saving him 5 minutes a game, but I believe JJ is capable of averaging the minutes he does, and more importantly, wants to play that much. His last two seasons in Phoenix he played in all 82 games and averaged 40.6 and 39.5 minutes respectively.

He did shoot poorly in the 7 playoff games last season, but played similar minutes in 04-05 and had a great playoffs.The Suns played a much different type of game, one that is more demanding than the Hawks run.

At only 26 the Hawks’ JJ may be capable of carrying a heavy load.I say this because Bibby is actually playing less minutes than his career average.Which might be more appropriate at age 30 and also tells me that Coach Woodson is making some distinctions. If he was just intent on playing starters into the ground, then Bibby would not be averaging less minutes, he would be averaging close to as many as JJ.

But again, no one has made the case that you must play players certain minutes in order to obtain a certain result in the playoffs.

Oh. did I mention the Hawks are 20-10? ‘Cause they are and that’s all that really matters right now.

Go Hawks!!

By ray

December 30, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

What if Lenny Wilkens had decided he was going to “develop” Kevin Johnson and take away minutes from Mark Price? Would the Cavs still have been a dominant team?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but let’s explore the differences between that situation then, and this situation now.

Mark Price was drafted in ‘86 as I recall. Kevin Johnson was drafted in ‘87. The purpose of drafting him was to challenge and possibly replace Price. The result was good player improvement and great asset management. Price managed to get himself going and became more successful. And so, the team became more successful. Shortly thereafter, Johnson was traded for Larry Nance, a draft pick or two for later, and somebody else I can’t recall (I think there was another guy involved). So, do you think Larry Nance had anything to do with those dominant Cleveland Teams?

Ahh, it was not so simple as you first stated, eh? And really, this is more about good asset management than it is about whether or not to develop a young pg. Cleveland had a young pg. They found another one.

Fast forward to now in Atlanta and the situation is drastically different. Acie was drafted most likely to try and help play catch-up to a whole batch of mistakes made at the pg position. Bibby, on the other hand, was acquired later, due to the fact that Acie was being “developed” and we didn’t have a single solid veteran pg who didn’t either get injured with some frequency, or simply didn’t have all the goods needed. Add to that the fact that Bibby is closer to the down slope of his career (though it is certainly not over) and Acie is just in his 2nd year, and you have a false analogy.

Just sayin’….

By Samuel

December 30, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

All this minutes talk is gettn me down.

So-in-so comes in at the 4 minute mark in period 1 and the 8:42 mark of the 3rd quarter. Give me a break!

Who says what the magic number is? That’s why I don’t watch baseball now. A pitcher is comming out in the 7th, no matter what. Like he’s gonna drop dead at pitch number 95. Lefty vs Righty BS. No more Nolan Ryans or Bob Gibsons.

Wilt averaged 45.8 minutes per game for 13 years. In his best year he averaged 48 minutes per game and 50 pts per game.

Baylor averaged 40 min per game for 12 years and 44 minutes per game in 61-62. He also averaged 38 points.

Russell- 42.3 mpg in 12 years

Stop babying these guys!!!.

By ray

December 30, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Very well stated. And your attention to detail explains the point of view better than mine ever has. A few more minutes for Law (for crying out loud, how about actually letting him play for longer than 120 seconds) couldn’t hurt. And I share the same fears: Bibby’s performance will not go unnoticed. Are we going to treat him like we did Smith and Childress after the season is over? If so, expect him to be snapped up in no time. By someone else. I’d love to believe he wants to finish his career here. But I’ve never forgotten that the NBA is a business. By the way, I think we beat Indy tonight, and I think you’re right: Marvin makes Granger work for it….hard. He will get a solid chance to tonight, since he won’t be filling in at PF and trying to help Pachulia out in the absence of Smith and Horford this time.

Astro Joe,

Your analogy makes plenty of sense to me. It is what it is, like it or not (and I don’t like it…can ya tell? LOL). That’s why I say you either committ to how a coach chooses to do things (give him the tools he asks for) or you bring in a different coach to use the tools you’ve assembled. After you decide which way to go, then you hold the guy responsible for keeping up his end of the job.

Sund hasn’t done a ton of assembling here, and I figure a year or two (hence the two year contract) is sufficient enough time for him to judge Woody on what’s been given to him.

It still bugs me to see what I see. Why is Acie all but cut out of the game altogether now? I used to be able to complain about him getting 11 minutes a game. Now he almost gets none. Ok, if he’s never going to be used, then we should trade him (probably in a package deal) for someone worth having , and more importantly, someone Woody will use. And it might be good to do it before his value hits rock bottom, as other teams wonder why the guy can’t get on the floor…

I digress…

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

O’Brien, I was in Houston when Acie played so I saw many of his games. He didn’t impress me as anything more than a great college player. He isn’t the first great college guy who didn’t translate well to the NBA.

It’s not a matter of regression. It is how their particular skill set and competitive drive translates to the NBA game.For example, look at Duke players. They’re exceptional in college and all but 2-3 fail to play at the same level once the reach the NBA. Is it all the coaches fault?

I thought he would be at least a solid back up PG, and a very serviceable starter if he played in the right system.

It’s not about FIXING…it’s about avoiding the need to do so.

In order to avoid something, you must know it is going to happen. In this case, it hasn’t happen yet, so there is nothing to avoid.

That echo you hear is of my own prediction. The rest of you are in the process of climbing to the mountain top and letting out a yodel hoping it’s repetition will mimic reality.

“Not fully sold”, was in the context of finishing with the 3rd or 4th seed, and not whether or not the Hawks were an improved team, capable of having a winning season and/or making the playoffs which was the context of those who originally claimed not to be sold. The analogy fails. Camp 2 maintains it’s integrity.

Strange how some who once championed “organic growth” now want to potentially retard that process with barely more than 1/4 season gone by.

But some of us are talking about “fine-tuning” and “maintenance

Ok, perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. What I’m saying is Dont. Fk. With. It. at all. No need. Leave it alone.

As the season progresses any weakness will reveal itself. But weakness alone is not enough. The weakness must wound the team and so far with the exception of Smith’s injury, none has had such an adverse impact. So I repeat. DFWI!

I brought of the example of Cleaves as a reminder that just because someone is highly drafted but doesn’t play much, doesn’t mean they have no value to the team. If those of you who argue that Acie is a worthy starting NBA PG are correct, then he retains a higher value to the team by playing limited minutes. Show just enough of the asset so that buyers are willing to purchase at a high price.

If you are wrong, and those of us who say he isn’t going to “develop” much beyond what he is already, then by limiting his minutes, the Hawks can also limit doubts come trade time and fetch a higher return than if he is exposed even more.

I know that goes against the Ruling Rules, saying that Acie may be yet another underperforming Hawk draft pick, but someone has to raise the question.

Go Hawks!!

By ray

December 30, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Kirk,

What’s the matter? Run out of steam? Aw, come on. By the way, I had to do some research out of curiosity. Johnson got traded along with Ty Corbin and Mark West for Nance, Mike Sanders, and a draft pick. Phoenix got a draft pick in addition to their new pg and the other two guys. They used the pick on Dan Majerle. During that following season in Phoenix (a full season), Johnson blew up for 20 and 12 a game. Hmmm. Pretty damn good. Thus ends that segment of a history lesson.

But again, no one has made the case that you must play players certain minutes in order to obtain a certain result in the playoffs.

Well, why would anyone try that? An NBA coach probably couldn’t do it, much less a bunch of bloggers who haven’t coached a single day in the NBA. LOL! I know this won’t be appreciated for the intended humor (added by a double meaning), but that’s like asking someone to prove that a straw man staked into place will survive a blast from your flamethrower…. :)

Oh. did I mention the Hawks are 20-10? ‘Cause they are and that’s all that really matters right now.

You are SO right! So uhhh…. why are we having this series of conversations again? Lol….

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

*The purpose of drafting him was to challenge and possibly replace Price. *, no, the purpose was to play the better player; the player that gave the team the best chance to win.

Larry Nance? Huh? where the hell did he come from? Put if you are going to ignore the PG nad look at the rest of the team then you are remiss for not mention Brad Daugherty, Ron Harper, and Craig Ehlo.

But then again, the point was not about supporting cast. If it was, then that makes Acie look worse, because while he may not be working with what Price had, he certainly has a good deal of talent around him and still can’t get minutes. Some say give him the minutes, others of us say he needs to earn them by maximizing whatever playing time he gets, plus going balls-out in practice.

Um, not much exploration of what goes on in practice, but I believe it is important and to a vet-lover like Coach Woodson, it is in practice that Acie and Solo have their best chance to impress upon him. No one has allowed for the idea that they might not be getting it done in practice.

Still, the Hawks are 20-10. Just sayin……

Go Hawks!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 30, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

“Stop babying these guys!!!”

I feel where you’re coming from, but at the same time, it’s common sense that a guy who averages 35 mpg over the course of a season will be more fresh in the playoffs than a guy who averages 40 mpg. If the Hawks really need 40 minutes out of Joe Johnson every game I have no problem with playing him that much. But when we have a guy in Acie who needs minutes, if there’s any opportunity to reduce Joe’s minutes to get Acie some playing time Woody should take advantage of that.

Someone earlier pointed out that the Hawks didn’t have a plan B in last year’s playoffs when Bibby was ineffective because Acie hadn’t had enough seasoning over the course of the season. Bibby has looked great this year, but the last thing the Hawks need is for that scenario to repeat itself. And it’s becoming clearer and clearer that although Flip Murray can provide some points off the bench, he cannot be trusted as a point guard. It’s incredibly important that Acie gets some minutes down the stretch to get him ready for possible playoff action, and I don’t see why he can’t take some of Joe’s minutes, particularly in games when the Hawks are comfortably ahead.

Side note: Joe Johnson is averaging 39.5 minutes per game this year, after averaging over 40 the last two seasons. Dominique Wilkins never averaged more than 39 minutes per game ever in his entire career. In most seasons he was around 37.

By Samuel

December 30, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

DFW. I like that Kirk.

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

You buy a new car. It runs great. You drive it everywhere. It still runs great. Do you service it and check it periodically or not? After all, it RUNS GREAT RIGHT NOW, why should you check anything?

Here the key is “driving it everywhere”. Some of us , maybe just me, are saying that the Hawks haven’t been anywhere yet with just 1/4 season gone by. Yes you do maintenance, but not after a month?

There are other reasons this analogy fails. The difference between the expectations that come with a Mercedes and those that come with a KIA, for example.Yeah they are both likely to run well at first, but over time, the quality reveals itself. Mercedes has been around longer and has an outstanding track record. KIA doesn’t have such a record despite some respectable results.

Now you can try replacing KIA parts with parts from a Mercedes. You could even adhere to the Mercedes maintenance schedule, but once you drive from the mechanic, do you really believe you have a car anything like the Mercedes? Some will, others will not.

Boston is the Mercedes. We are not. Yet.

Go Hawks!!

By ray

December 30, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

The only thing we can’t avoid is injuries. Everything else should be recognizable. Even then, should wait for someone to get injured, and then let a bench player play, to find out if he’s ready to step up?

That echo you hear is of my own prediction. The rest of you are in the process of climbing to the mountain top and letting out a yodel hoping it’s repetition will mimic reality.

Oh, so here we are with the rest of the blog being wrong, and you being right again. And you called me narcissistic. LOL! I love it. An echo of your own predition. This is priceless :)

Sorry bub, but you expressed the same kind of sentiments as others have (and I know how much you HATE that, being so independent and so different than the rest of the human race and what not). You just didn’t like the way they said it. Then you said that it’s all about who says what when, and you manage to personify your very own statements. How do you do that? Somebody should put you up on stage with a microphone, you’d kill one crowd after another!

“Not fully sold”, was in the context of finishing with the 3rd or 4th seed, and not whether or not the Hawks were an improved team, capable of having a winning season and/or making the playoffs which was the context of those who originally claimed not to be sold. The analogy fails. Camp 2 maintains it’s integrity.

Ahhh, okay. Specifics are a mutha, aren’t they? Well I’m glad “Camp 2” maintains its integrity. By the way, does 1 person make a “camp?” Just curious…

DFWI…I like it. MannyT would be proud. Okay, so nobody should do a single thing different than they are right now. Don’t change a thing. Think you could get that memo to all involved in the organization? You might want to get a copy to Woodson as well. Oh, and tell him how many days you coached in the NBA so that he’ll know you’re not one of us raggedy-a$$ bloggers trying to give him advice.

As for the rest of us…well, we make up the choir. You know how it is. We don’t make any decisions here. Wonder if “Camp 2” knows that?

By cp

December 30, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

My main issue with the Law situation is how the kid can play well in one game and not see the court for the next few games..,.Flip was stinking it during most of December. He was committing a lot of turnovers, doing a lot of chucking, and not playing good defense. Even with all that he was still getting minutes and allowed to do what he wanted. Law can come in and make one turnover and is yanked. Flip can turn the ball over on consecutive possessions and not have to worry about coming out. I just don’t see how you can develop a young pg if you wont allow him to play through his mistakes . Imagine what Law is thinking when he sees Flip bring the ball up and get his pockets picked, then come down and just put up shots. Then when he comes in and plays well or makes one mistake is already on the bench. Look at the Warriors game. Law came in and played well. Played solid defense and set up his teammates well. He had like 5 dimes in 7 minutes yet saw no time in the second half…. Like ray said, we took this kid 11 in the draft and right now its looking like another wasted pick or he could end up as another player who blossomed once he left this team.

By O'brien

December 30, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

For those Duke players who excelled in college but didn’t make it in the NBA, most of them were given opportunities and PT. With playing time, it was obvious they couldn’t cut it in the NBA. Acie has not had the opportunity to prove himself, so we’re still not sure what kind of player he is (or might become).

The ironic thing is that some of the guys who dont think Acie has earned consistent minutes probably expect Acie to come in and play well every 6 games or so, even if it’s only for a 5 minute stretch here and there. He needs repetition (and practice is not enough). He needs real game time (not garbage time). If he gets consistent PT and doesnt play at a high level, then I will understand. But until then, we’ll never know…

On a side-note, if Bibby was healthy last year and shooting like he is now, imagine how different the 4 games in Boston would have been…

By Mike woodson

December 30, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Alright alright, Woodster in the house. Im doing aallright we still have a long way to go so lets stop with the COY crap- before yall jinx us. Truth is i cant draw up a play to save my life,no body even listens when i break out my clip board.

Samuel- Dude you gotta slow down, I mean really get off my nutz please, u act like u know me or something,where did we meet at a 70 underground rave. seriously dude im going to need u to chill with the man love

O by the way im never playing Acie Law. Y becuz I can dam it, hahahahaha!

By Beck

December 30, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Sekou Throw me another bone here…

First: I never thought I’d read Woody=COY after all of the Fire Billy and Woody comments. Awesome.

Next: I love how the team is doing but I think we really will need one more good bench player for the playoff push/run.

1) Can Chill be brought back this season?

2) Who else might be a good addition to the bench and can we do it without giving up any of our boys now?

Thanks and Happy Holidays from Down Under.

By ray

December 30, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

The purpose of drafting him was to challenge and possibly replace Price. , no, the purpose was to play the better player; the player that gave the team the best chance to win.

Um, yeah. I think I just said that. The purpose was to play the better player. In order to do that, there must be a second player, yes? And they must compete with each other, yes? Hence the word challenge. Then, it can be determined who the “better” player is. Johnson was drafted #7, in the first round as I recall. He was drafted to either be that better player, or be traded for accompanying pieces. It was determined that Price was the better guy. Johnson went with a couple other players in exchange for a player that helped the team become better (Nance). Google it or maybe use Wikipedia if you still don’t get my point.

Larry Nance? Huh? where the hell did he come from? Put if you are going to ignore the PG nad look at the rest of the team then you are remiss for not mention Brad Daugherty, Ron Harper, and Craig Ehlo.

Oh, I didn’t ignore anything, and you know it. I took what you offered, addressed it in more detail than you did, and expounded on a direct result of the decision made. We can go as far as you want, but I suspect you don’t want to go further, do you? Your response to my analogy was a good one. But it was not very similar

Samuel,

Well of course you like it, it’s right up your alley! But uh, it’s D..F..W..I.(Don’t Fk With It). Not DFW. Only 4 letters buddy, you can do it….heh heh heh. Keep it up and you can join “Camp 2”. Wherever/whatever that is. Heh…

By Astro Joe

December 30, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

I support Law getting minutes this year for the purposes of helping the team this year. In the valuable role of pace-changer. We have had a few games when the team was flat and needed that energizer to get things cranking. Chill did some of that in the past and we saw Acie do that in the Cavs game earlier this year. I don’t see anyone else capable of playing that role (assuming that Smith continues to have lingering ankle issues).

Ray, great point about Sund. I think that he will try to give Woody the right pieces. He seems less interested in being the basketball expert and more interested in building a team like he did with Dallas back in the 90s. That’s why I believe that he will look to use that $24M from Zaza, Marvin and Bibby to bring back Marvin, Bibby and a big. My vote is for Rasho.

I don’t know why anyone is calling for Chris Wilcox… an inconsistent big man who has been a huge disappointment. If I’m trading for anyone with the Thunder, give me Joe Smith… a crafty vet who can guard multiple positions and hit the open jumper.

By ray

December 30, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

O’Brien,

Good point. Again, more evenly stated than I managed. Trajan Langdon certainly distinguished himself from Grant Hill, did he not? Corey Maggette seems to be doing fine. Anybody know which part of Europe Ademola Okulaja is in?

And as far as “systems” go, has Chris Duhon ever looked better than he does under D’Antoni?

I agree about Bibby. I think injury wasn’t the only thing that would’ve changed the playoffs for us last year. A full training camp and more games with our squad would’ve done wonders, too. Woody was sure right about that.

CP,

I would love for somebody to explain that one to me. I mean, it’s not like Acie is blind. What should he read from this? Flip can make bad plays (consecutively, even), but Acie can make one and get yanked? I think Astro Joe has it nailed.

However, I’ll say that Flip makes more good plays than bad plays. I’ll bet a lot of people feel that way. Even the ones who refuse to recognize the same from Josh Smith. And I’m glad to have him.

Samuel,

At least the flow of hate in Woodson’s direction has slowed drastically. Not nearly as many people are calling for his head here. I mean, you do have the die-hards like ol’ Clyde, but hell he can’t help himself. What else is he gonna put on one of his award-winning t-shirts? A man’s got to pay for his trip to Rio ya know!! :)

By doc

December 30, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

kirk, by now i think you may believe i have my feet firmly in the ground. i am becoming a believer in this team as they continue to make progresss. i am very impressed with the overall TEAM play that is being used. that may be woody’s criteria that is used for play time. if you are not where you are supposed to be, less time on the court. it is what zaza is doing and that may be why he is staying for longer minutes. geez, he even got a tap on the butt last night as he left the court a real good sign of approval from the coach. good job zaza.

this team does work hard on defense and pays more attention to it than defense. it is paying dividends. so with my feet on the ground i do jump up and show my support.

kirk again i agree with you, it is not a cadillac yet. funny the analogy because i used it several years ago dealing with folks expectations as we were in he dumps saying that we couldnt expect a cadillac until we decided to pay for more than a honda would get us. why expect more. now, it is all good, especially for the long suffering hawks fans.

as far as the comparison to the celts, we are approaching what they do to teams with our defense as we close down the spaces quickly. it is what you want to see in a good soccer team but it is not as evident on a basketball court. it is what you want your defenders to do and we are doing it well. no space if their is any slow down of ball movement by the other guys.

here is a quick link to the hacks;

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-hawks-blog/2008/12/30/two-out-of-three/

seems like i missed a lot of gabbing today. when i get a chance ill go back and read more closely the points and counterpoints. entertaining if not educational.

look forward to seeing how the guys respond on the road tonight.

By Samuel

December 30, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

I thought those were two exclamation marks. In the hood F******* is one word. DFW sounds better. More acronym ready.

Joe, I’ll still take Wilcox over Smith. Wilcox fits more with our young front court. He brings the energy and can throw it down with authority. Joe Smith is too bland. We got JJ for that.

Let’s keep it going and put them Pacers away so Acie can see the floor, please. I’m tired of the whinning.

Woody=COY

By ray

December 30, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Kirk,

Come on, man. Kia vs Mercedes? No, buddy that analogy fails, and I’ll tell you why? One, we’re not talking about swapping car parts. We’re talking about plain old maintenance. Are you telling me that failure to check and change critical fluids in a Mercedes won’t have the same effect as it will in a Kia, because the Mercedes is a nicer car? Okay, let’s cut and paste some more…

Here the key is “driving it everywhere”. Some of us , maybe just me, are saying that the Hawks haven’t been anywhere yet with just 1/4 season gone by. Yes you do maintenance, but not after a month?

I think I failed to clarify as well. By “maintance” I meant mostly what the coach does with the players. What he does with the bench. I’m not talking about trading away players or firing coaches. I’m talking about finding what the best combinations are for situations. Woodson already knows what the best starting five is. But he needed to know what the best option was with the bench. He’s tried a few things, and he’s even said that he needs to expand his bench some, and involve more guys. Yet he cuts the rotation right back down to 7/8 guys. Why? Why do that when his back is not against the wall, and we’re not in the middle of a struggle to make the playoffs? Why not find out who can do what best…long before that time comes. Why not have one or two more guys get some good playing time earlier in the season so that they are well integrated? I know the Celtics are the Mercedes. But good maintenance (which is what Doc Rivers did, managing minutes and developing an extended bench) is good maintenance. And that’s true for any car…

That’s just my opinion, though. It just so happens that some people share that opinion. Why would that make it “ruling rules?” What should I call it if people agree with you? I’d call it shared opinion…But hey, I realize Ruling Rules might just be your version of a joke. If you have a sense of humor that is. Can’t really tell…

Astro Joe,

I understand your point of view. Or perhaps all Law can do is provide us with a Lindsey Hunter or Kevin Ollie type of role. I don’t really know. But I’d rather see him get the chance to prove something. A lottery pick, wasting away on the bench, hardly playing at all at this point. You’d think we had a plethora of serviceable point guards. I look at the bench and see a great starter, a combo guard who’s better as a SG, and….

I’m guessing that Sund has been in the business so long that he has let go of that “basketball expert” pursuit that seems to plague some of the others, as you accurately pointed out. That, and you have to have an owner (or owners) that is fully behind you when you want to change coaches. Perhaps Sund is that evenly balanced and fair with Woody. Perhaps he saw how it went down with the last guy who was our GM. Either way, it’s working out well for Woody, and he’s got to be appreciative of that.

On Wilcox…I like him, but a guy like that could start here if he played well. Question is, where does he fit? Bench or starting lineup. And then, whose minutes does he take? I like Rasho too, but don’t tell that to Samuel. He’s got a “one-Euro limit.” Hee hee! Yeah, I could go with Joe Smith too, but I think he’s wanting to go to a more established contender. Then again, a job’s a job…

By Josh

December 30, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Anybody know if Granger is playing tonight? I heard he had a sore neck.

By Fritz

December 30, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

*Wilt averaged 45.8 minutes per game for 13 years. In his best year he averaged 48 minutes per game and 50 pts per game.

Baylor averaged 40 min per game for 12 years and 44 minutes per game in 61-62. He also averaged 38 points.

Russell- 42.3 mpg in 12 years*

Wilt, Baylor, and Russell played most of their years when the NBA consisted of 9 teams, and the level of athleticism was not what it is today. They played in an age when the Big O could average a triple double at 6’4”. It just isn’t the same today with 30 teams, the skill of the players, and the grueling travel to 29 CITIES!

There’s a reason why no one else rides their superstars as hard as we ride JJ. It’s called pacing. The NBA season is a long distance race. Woody should treat it as one.

By ray

December 30, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Samuel, somebody should give you a big red nose and two oversized shoes….

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

DFWI…I like it. MannyT would be proud., I thought long and hard before crossing into his territory, but I felt he wouldn’t mind tis one time. Heck, I was once the reputed king of the cut-and-paste and now many other have gone on to earned their black belts in the art.

If you want to strip the context from statement made before the season and equate them with similar statements made after 1/4 season, go ahead. I made a clear distinction, you aren’t bound to honor it.

I know I’m not supposed to, but I do. I do ask the inconvenient questions. In this case, where are those minutes from Acie coming from? How many does he get? 15-25 minutes a game? Do we now tell FlipMo, yeah you’ve been getting done but take a seat so we can “Save Acie”? And what about Bibby and JJ?

Is Woodson supposed to play Flip more at the 2 with Acie at 1? Dopes Bibby play some 2? Will it further Acie’s “development” if he played some 2?

Others are effected.Just Sayin….

Go Hawks!!

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

O’Brien, the point is that many Duke players entered the NBA having played on a superstar level in college or close to it. They weren’t mediocre or serviceable or just defensive/offensive specialists like many are now. They were hyped to the max and always a big factor in games.

I think most knowledgeable basketball fans, who aren’t hardcore Dukies, or Dick Vitale will admit, Duke players tend not to thrive at the same level in the NBA , as they did in college.

I noticed you didn’t mention the Danny Ferry’s, or Christian Laettner’s, or Shelden Williams’. Also the JJ Reddick, Jason Williams, Shane Battier,Cherokee Parks,Bobby Hurley, and Hawks fans surely remember our first Duke miss,Roshown McLeod.

While it is true that these players, for the most part(excluding injuries) were given playing time.But again I go back to asking what no one seems to want to talk about much, if at all.

How does giving Acie more minutes effect others? Is Marvin better or worse with Acie running things? How about Josh and Horford? Is it a chance we hold them back in order to answer a question about Acie. In doing so, will this FU what is now 20-10?

So many willing to scream “play Acie”, but haven’t thought it through.

By ray

December 30, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Fritz,

Now there’s some fresh perspective. I know I hadn’t thought of it that way.

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

doc, actually, no my impression was that you’re starting to float above in the clouds with the 3rd or 4th seed expectations. See I clearly drew a distinction between expectation and hope. One is based on more solid evidence, the other based more, though not entirely on, emotion.

And knowing how you feel about ASG, and why, I am very surprised a smart guy such as yourself would once again find himself in a situation where he might have to adjust expectations downward again.

If you have a sense of humor that is. Can’t really tell… = *Come on, man. Kia vs Mercedes? *

Still so much unexplored, unexamined territory concerning the nascent Save Acie Law movement.

Darn it. I can get 13,000 explanations as to how a sorry behind OF like Adam Dunn should be a Brave on that now tedious blog, but I can’t get “analysis” of how playing Acie 15-25 minutes a game is going to effect the rest of the team on a blog that touts itself as having some depth? Sheesh!

Go Hawks!!

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Wilt, Baylor, and Russell played most of their years when the NBA consisted of 9 teams, and the level of athleticism was not what it is today.

On the other hand, the knowledge about nutrition, coaching and training is much better(from pee-wee league to the pros) and athletes are playing longer and better. I would expect minutes to rise, not fall under the present circumstances as compared to the old days.

By ray

December 30, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Doc, thanks for the link to our blog. Come take a “hack” or two if you’re around tonight…

By doc

December 30, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

kirk, yup changed my stripes a bit as far as the basg goes, as you have noticed been quiet to see how things turn out this year. still tough to think what might come about in the courts come february. i said enough to want to let this subject play out.

as far as expectations they are day to day though some might say wishy-washy. seems some of what yu say is exactly some of the points i have made within the past six months. right now i can see that if the hawks continue on their present trajectory then the may well qualify for that 4th spot. didnt the sixers come close last year? there may be a team or two like detroit or miami that can make its way up the ladder above us by hopefully playing better ball.

speaking of detroit, my man stuckey has come of age and may end up complimenting ai like bibby does jj. i think the franchise would have been better off financially with stuckey instead of acie or bibby for the long term, maybe not this year. folks were asking who has stopped jj and stuckey if he didnt stop him certainly contained him in the last game. he may resurrect them down the stretch. can you imagine him and jj on the court together, kind of what i sought in roy and jj.

there is certainly the idea that the hawks have plenty of time to back up to the rest of the league, only problem with that line of thought they are clearly not showing any signs of that right now. when healthy they are what 11 games over .500 when not about 1 under. yes, i have seen your admonitions to wait out the season as it is long and they could still go back to where i stuck them. right now they seem to want to exceed everyones expectations and i am just stating the obvious. so be it if they do back up.

i really am too old to get hung up on expectations and i really dont tie too much of my own well being to what they do one way or the other. from that respect i am not a fan. i just like watching good basketball and it is more fun when it is the home team that is paying a good brand of ball. no live and die here however. it is kind of like the braves. i loved it when they were playing good fundamental ball. they just dont anymore and i cant say it is all because they dont have this or that player as the ones they depend on and have for the last three years up through their farms are letting them down as much as the newbies. for now it is fun to see this hawks team play on both sides of the court and it is something to be grateful for.

as far as acie and solo, maybe the smart thing is to put some distance on the others before wanting to work them into the rotation. maybe that is the rationale for limiting play for the time being. as flip, mo and zaza show themselves to be engrained into the system it will be time to add a little more to the mix. acie and solo do have their virtues and by working them into the system will cause problems for the other teams is how i see it and give us more bullets for the gun playoff time and is the real virtue i see in bringing them into the mix. this time last year no one gave big baby and rondo much thought. by the playoffs they were involved and had their roles. it may only be hope on my part that they have some virtues, just the same i am willing to wait a bit further to see how it all plays out. enough said without becoming tedious, you know?

By blast

December 30, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Good point, Mr Roaming Jim. Bibby will be in high demand and the Hawks should make a statement and offer him a big contract NOW. That would be cool and remove some more sting off the Childress screwup. Also, it might be more difficult to resign Joe if Bibby was not here. I think Bibby will stay if the Hawks make a deep playoff push because the Hawks are one of the most exciting teams out there, anybody should want to play with them at this time.

All this Acie talk is driving me nuts. Acie will get his time, I promise you guys that. If the Hawks really separate themselves from the pack down the line, Acie will get more time. Remember Woody has a 2yr contract, meaning he has to win NOW. So he’s playing the vets his more comfortable in. And folks are wrong, I think Acie will becaome a very good player in this league.

Time to go. Game is coming on.

By doc

December 30, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

ray, i will chat it up there when i catch up here. love what you guys are doing and have the capability to do. not sure if i didnt blink and see it in its rightful place before sending me here. will go back to check.

kirk, i dont expect this team to float higher than the four, that is where we are now. if we are to get a win in the first round, clearly that is where we want to be. this team is beginning to say what their goals are out loud so i can be sure they will not go down without trying or better said; doing their best. it might be hope on their part, expectations or whatever but marvin breathed out loud they want 50. that is a start to getting there.

something tells me that is the goal sund has placed before them based on what i have heard him say …. “elite teams win 50 or more and we want to be among the elite”. last year it was get into the playoffs. however, this year it is to become among the elite. those are not my expectations mind you.

newk, it is not all in the dna. check out the term epigentics. that is what really regulates dna and we may not be as trapped with our dna as we were lead to believe. as far as teams checking dna, not without a fight by the union is my guess. the results will be misleading anyway.

By Astro Joe

December 30, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

I think I finally know why Josh Smith drives me crazy (as I watch him commit 2 turnovers and take a bad shot in the first 3 minutes of the game). While he typically does about 70-80% good stuff, the 20-30% of bad stuff that he does is contained to literally a few things. In other words, he’s not doing a ton of bad things but essentially 2-3 bad things. But he does those 2-3 bad things in bunches. One would think that fixing the 2-3 mental errors would be fairly easy…. don’t lead a fast break - fill the lane for the fast break; don’t try to get an assist with every pass, swinging the ball to the weak side works too; don’t settle for long jump shots, those are always available. By simply fixing those 3 things, he’d be a super efficient player. But watching him make the same 2-3 mistakes nightly is simply maddening.

If that puts me in the “Hater” category, then so be it.

By ray

December 30, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Kirk,

Do you know what the difference is between him and you? He is tough and demanding of the organization. You are tough and demanding of bloggers. Again, no harm in that, but the focus is completely different. And, it’s easier to tear down the opinions and perspectives of others than it is to build foundations and defend your own, isn’t it? The result is a person who is full of questions for bloggers. And none for the people acutally making decisions…I’m just sayin’. No harm in that.

I like how you ask so many questions about who should play what minutes, where they should come from, and who should have theirs cut, accordingly. Let me see, Woody has several assistants to help him keep up with that, but you ask little ol’ me, who hasn’t coached a single day in the NBA? Heh, heh, yeah I’ve turned your phrase a half dozen times already, but I can’t help it. So easy.

I’ll answer some of them though, since you asked. I think Acie should back up Bibby, and Flip should back up Joe. If matchups dicatate otherwise, then go with what works. Sometimes, though we have not seen the mismatches taken advantage of, or we’ve seen mismatches that we didn’t react well to. I would rather see Acie and Flip play about 15 mpg each.

You ask where should Acie’s minutes come from? I counter that question with “where did they go to?” Through the month of November, in the 15 games in which he was allowed to play, Acie was getting roughly 11.5 minutes per game. Through December, he has played in 9 games, at roughly 7.7 mpg. Okay, that’s 23 games. We’re 20-10. Am I missing something? Oh yeah….7 games. So has Acie had an injury? Not that I recall. So that would be 7 DNPs, and a reduction in minutes by 3.7. Not a huge figure, I know, but where did they go? Was some unfortunate starter hurting, missing his minutes, and they had to be given back? Surely they were well compensated for during those games Acie didn’t play.

Asking should a point guard’s minutes come at the expense of a center or power forward is silly, unless you’re taking into account some extreme matchup issues (and I know you’re not). But if we’re going to ask that question, then which of those guys got some minutes back? Which got to play more when Acie sat the bench with the other stiffs?

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

doc, glad to hear that has been some softening of your position towards ASG and the team.

I want the Hawks to become an elite team. Though I see becoming a winning team as a necessary first step.

Some want to take the winning for granted, I don’t.

We all want the same thing, insofar as the team is concerned.

Go Hawks!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 30, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, I’m not at all a Josh hater and I agree with everything you said.

Nice to see Zaza playing quality minutes in this first quarter.

By doc

December 30, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

aj, careful, as many players make the unforced error on this team wanting to do too much. bibby as good as he is even does it some and did it at least twice last night, flip was leading the team with his short minutes though he appears to be more reigned in. jj has his moments as well where i go WTF? even my guy nash at his best leads the league in number of to’s probably but also leads in assists.

i think to be a hater will be fulfilled only when you continue to harp on it as his teammate make similar plays and/or it gets overlooked or not recognize his growth during the season as he begins to get a better understanding that they dont need to take chances to score in bunches.

By ray

December 30, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Still so much unexplored, unexamined territory concerning the nascent Save Acie Law movement.

Enlighten us then, as to why Acie should stay on the bench. Please try not to use generic phrases like “we’re 20-10.”

Darn it. I can get 13,000 explanations as to how a sorry behind OF like Adam Dunn should be a Brave on that now tedious blog, but I can’t get “analysis” of how playing Acie 15-25 minutes a game is going to effect the rest of the team on a blog that touts itself as having some depth? Sheesh!

Ah, so Sekou’s Blog is once again not up to your par. I love how you claim that nobody has thought through the question of where Acie gets his minutes. It’s kind of like back during summer (oh yes, this again buddy) when you stated unequivocally that the Hawks would be just fine with or without Josh Smith, and that we didn’t need to sweat re-signing him. I asked you THEN (as I am AGAIN) what your thought process was on both replacing him, and with whom. You dodged the question magnificently by saying that others had trade ideas and you didn’t see the need to come up with any of your own.

Perhaps all of your demands and “inconvenient questions” should be met so crassly. But no, I gave you some thoughts. Just so you could chew them up and spit them out like all of the other “analysis” and opinion that you come across. Why would you ask for something that you claim you don’t want to hear anyway?

Darn it. I can get 13,000 explanations as to how a sorry behind OF like Adam Dunn should be a Brave on that now tedious blog, but I can’t get “analysis” of how playing Acie 15-25 minutes a game is going to effect the rest of the team on a blog that touts itself as having some depth? Sheesh!

Don’t know who’s suggesting he play 25 mpg. I suggested 20, then recently curtailed that to 15. Or was I supposed to stick with that opinion until the season was over? I can’t get these Kirk Rules straight to save my life…

Is it just me, or are you unhappy no matter where you blog? Yeah, I’ve seen how you operate on DOB. I’ve observed there quite some time (sound familiar). Seems there is a common denominator. Heh. Perhaps you should start your own sports blog (if you haven’t already). It’s fun. Really. Try it.

By ray

December 30, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

So much ball movement and personnel movement is a bit new to this team. I mentioned that (I think) on my Hacks blog. The passes will be more crisp in time, and the routes will be better run after a while. At the same time, I think a certain amount of turnovers are indigenous to an offense that moves the ball around that much. Look at teams like Phoenix and New York, coached at different times by D’Antoni. Same thing in Memphis with Iavaroni.

The difference is the more disciplined, veteran teams. They make fewer mistakes. But again, more passes are more opportunities for the defense to pick the ball off, or for an offensive player to make a mistake. That being said, I’d not discourage the ball movement. Just tighten things up.

By Sautee

December 30, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

kirknga

Oh. did I mention the Hawks are 20-10? ‘Cause they are and that’s all that really matters right now.

If that’s really all that matters to you why are you b*** about other bloggers and their choice of subject matter?????

Truth is, what really matters to you is trying to put others opinions down. You show us that over and over kirk. Over and over.

Now come back at me again and tell me how and why I’m wrong. Over and over.

By doc

December 30, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

kirk it is all about the team and that is what these guys are doing becoming a team. thye are winning now, as yu say can they keep it up. guess that is where we are and what we get to talk about for the next month. me i will be satisfied if they are 25 and 14 on january 17 as that is to be hopefully realistic. if they arent then it wont be the end of the world but guarantee we will be talking about it as though it were expectations not met.

kirk, i will throw this out there, i guess it is more about attachment vs non-attachment than anything when one talks about expectations or hopes or even desires to where one ends up psychologically as a fan. i might be wrong but that does seem to be a concern or theme of yours as you often try to dissect hope and expectation preferring your hope to others perceived expectations. me, i prefer to remain without attachment whether it be to expectation or to hope. better that way, got it? it allows the pleasure without the pain. heh heh

By ray

December 30, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

I want the Hawks to become an elite team. Though I see becoming a winning team as a necessary first step.

Agreed. Wonder why it was “negativity” when it came out of other people’s mouths. Huh. Oh well. Maybe it was because some of us said that a winning record, 20-something games into the season was not evidence of a winning team, but evidence of a team winning (seeing as how this team has not had a winning season yet). I guess that went ignored, along with the rest of the sorry opinions contributed to this blog…

Blas,

We haven’t seen management act like that yet. I hear a lot of people saying that we should make re-signing Bibby a priority. And after having seen how well he’s meshed with and led this team, I’m inclined to agree. But the last time I heard “signing them is a priority” it was Smith and Childress. No need to re-hash how that went down, but if they think they can “hold their cards” with Bibby, they are crazy. He’ll be gone in a New York minute. And anybody that says otherwise is talking out of both sides of their mouth. After all, you can’t tell me Bibby is the man (and he has shown himself to be so), then tell me he won’t garner a lot of attention. Some people may gaze adoringly at the ASG, but I’m not sold yet, anymore than others are sold on this team being a 3rd or 4th seed in the East come playoff time.

By preston

December 30, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

ok………this is a good game with the pacers 2nite, but does anybody else notice that JJ and Bibby’s shot are falling short now. WTFis going on with Acie law……..Sekou, please help us out here….why is Acie riding the pine like Salim now????

By ray

December 30, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Finally, the Hawks Hacks blog is in place where the old one was! Thankyou, AJC! Gotta send a thankyou note to the webmaster and get back to work on the blog…

By Astro Joe

December 30, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

doc, clearly every player makes turnovers. It just feels like Smith is 50/50 when leading a fast break. With odds that strong (that you will either commit a turnover or not), you’d allow a guard to run the break. That’s what I don’t understand, he seems to ignore the percentages. If you’re twice as likely to make a mistake in a certain facet of a game as a teammate, then at what point do you decide to let a teammate work that area? I just don’t see any other player making the same level of concentrated mental mistakes as Smith.

By blast

December 30, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Hawks will take this game tonight.

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 30, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Strangely, the Hawks are playing subpar defense and not hitting shots, and they are still leading. Al Horford and Zaza have played well. It would be nice to see Bibby and Joe start hitting some shots. Of course, after yesterday’s game, maybe one of them is a little tired… maybe there’s another point guard on the bench somewhere who could get some playing time maybe? Yeah?

By ray

December 30, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

You know, in all this noise, people forget that Woodson himself said he probably should’ve played Acie more last season. Then, this preseason, he said he wanted to see Acie out there being comfortable, doing his thing.

There. From an NBA coach, no less. Gotta find the link to those articles. Then smarty pants can ask The Coach how he plans to get his bench reintegrated (as stated in a Sekou article some time ago). How he plans to get guys minutes. Heh.

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Got dang. How many touch fouls the refs are going to give the Pacers. You would think that we were playing the Celtics..

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Danny Granger is getting more calls than Lebron and D.Wade

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

How many free throws has the Pacers shot this (3) qtr..

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

Come on Woody. Obrien has found a way to play 3 pgs tonite and we are only mid way thru the 3qtr… Travis Deiner, come on. I know you can trust Acie to play against him….

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

One thing I notice about Mo Evans. He seems to be around the ball alot but the downside to that is that he converts less than half the plays into positives…

By rms

December 30, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

I told ya”ll before the reason Acie is locked in the doghouse is because he got caught sleeping with Woodson’s oldest daughter. He was really p** because Acie already got a woman. It didnt leak to the PR people because he didnt want to deal with the public embarrassment. I dont know about Solo, he probably held the camera or something!!

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

My gosh, we can’t even guard Travis Diener.

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Our bigs (AL and ZaZa) are in foul trouble and Woody decides to play small instead of playing Solo…

By terrell barron

December 30, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith still makes too many bone-headed decisions.

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Too funny. Woody took JJ out the game for two possesions (in which we scored on both). I saw the expression on Flip face as he walk to the sideline…LOL

By doc

December 30, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

this one is not doing my heart good.

By Real Hawks Fan 85

December 30, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Gotta love those 3-pt jacks by Smith during crunch time.

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Astro you call it. Josh miss two free throws and take a bad shot only to come back to block Granger shot then make the big assist to Joe Cool for the 3 pt dagger.

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Yes sir… Those young Hawks play hard and battle throw a bad shooting nite to get the win on the road… was that pretty but we’ll take it…

By Samuel

December 30, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

We want Acie. We want Acie.

Woody=COY

By BravesFan79

December 30, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Jarrett Jack is a guy i was calling for YEARS before we got Bibby. And we probably could of got him from Portland for cheap. Now everyone see what ive known about the former GT hero all along?
GET JACK TO BACKUP BIBBY!!

By bigdave

December 30, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Like I said, Joe converts the big shot or pass when we need him… The jumper from the 17 ft.. then the big 3 to hit em where it hurts…

Good find Josh…

Big win.. the hawks are progressing well..

We gotta keep the opponents go to guy of the line, even if the refs bailing them out.. otherwise we making em’ work..

By Macaroni Tony

December 30, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Now that’s six in a row. Joe got hot late and we’re now 21-10… How do you like me now..

Now where in the h*ll is the guy that said we will go 2-6 over the next eight games…?

By BravesFan79

December 30, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Melvin: you say that because the guys white? well im white and i bet u couldnt guard ME! Neither of us are pros so whattup? wanna hoop?
Youd have a better chance at beating me in hoops than swimming… thats forshure!

By Macaroni Tony

December 30, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Why is all this talk about Acie Law getting playing time… His time will come, but we’re 21-10. He’s a great player but not all second year players get alot of playing time. Acie will play, but it’s along season so we’ll have to be patient. We’re winning and that’s all the matters to me…

By ray

December 30, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Ha! Another win! 21-10 baby!

I like that Smith is getting to the line more. What in the heck was up with him taking that 3 so late in the game? Who keeps drawing this up? It can’t be all him, because somebody always passes him the ball in that position. Whatever. Get in the gym with Price if you’re going to keep doing that.

Well, we won the battle of the boards, which was critical to winning this game. Granger and Jack tried to tear us a new one, but we countered well with JJ and Smith having good games. The rest of the crew did pretty well, with a nod to Horford on the glass, and a couple of key blocks.

Jim Burn,

Well, we know it’s not going to be 2-6 now. Care to change your prediction a bit, or are you thinking 3-5 now? :)

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 30, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Disappointed with the defense — there were quite a few possessions where the old Josh would have stepped up and blocked the Pacers’ weak azz layups — but happy with the win regardless. The more close games like this the Hawks continue winning, the closer they get to being an elite team.

By preston

December 30, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

WOW….hec’ of a win for the hawks 2nite…….Well let me be one of the first to congratulate the The Atlanta Hawks, Mike Woodson and the entire coaching staff on the job that they have done this yr…..the excitement of the Boston playoff series…the 6-0 start, and th 21-10 record to close out the season has been very impressive. I have complained a lot about the team, and the leadership…..but, you really can’t argue with the results. Thx to to Hawks for giving us fans a competitive team to root for…and we will see you next year. HAPPY NEW YEAR HAWKS FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Tiger Woo

December 30, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

JJ = Superstar

Great road win for the Hawks !!

Josh Smith may make some mistakes but he also makes some big plays.

Six in a row !!

By Joke of the day

December 30, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Little Tyrone goes to his momma and says “i was in the bathroom and noticed i have a bigger penis than all the other 3rd graders, is it because im Black??”

His mother replies “no tyrone its because your 17!”

By Astro Joe

December 30, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

When the opposing team knows who is going to shoot the ball in the closing minutes of a game and still can’t stop that player, well, that player may very well be a superstar (when that happens more often than not). The Hawks were able to hold Granger down in the 4th quarter (and force Jack to have a darn near career 4th quarter) while Joe was able to fairly easily dominate the 4th quarter.

By RealSquawk

December 30, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Loosing to teams on the road that constantly beat the Hawks… Seems that argument is weakening, but it’s early.

3-0 for those next eight games

2-6 unattainable…

By Real Hawks Fan 85

December 30, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Good win tonight on the road in the second game of a back to back.

This game seemed so familiar even following it on gamecast

40+ minutes for JJ, Bibby, and Josh. Seems it was necessary. Hawks held the Pacers to 42.5% shooting and were +7 on the boards. Quite a turnaround from 11/18 when the Pacers shot 55% and were +5 on the boards. Hawks also took better care of the ball this time with 10 turnovers vs. 14 during the last meeting.

I see the predictable attacks have started because I’ve dared to ask some inconvenient questions. Apparently, it’s crass to ask “how will this effect the team?” Oh well.

But this is what happens when people don’t have answers. They attack, they ridicule, they claim vague reference to something maybe said a long time ago.Well, some people that is, because the question went out to more than one person.

We even have a counterattack by the alterego who will then demand answers to that attack as a diversion from those original questions and point. Very predictable:

Truth is, what really matters to you is trying to put others opinions down. You show us that over and over kirk. Over and over.

That has got to be the lamest comment made by the alterego that I’ve come across. This is a tough crowd, As for making people look dumb, not here, though some exhibit self-inflicted dumbness. …lol!

Like it or not, if Acie gets more minutes, it means less minutes for others. And if this happens roles change and people are now going to be asked to do things they’ve not had to do due to winning.Does Acie really come before the team?

Hawks are 21-10. That’s what’s hot, that’s what real. DFWI!

Go Hawks!!!

By Melvin

December 30, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

BravesFan79, I said that b/c he’s their 3rd string point guard. So please don’t play the race card with me. Never have you read anything on this blog that was written by me pertain to race. Let’s stick to sports….

By Samuel

December 30, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Good one JOTD!!

JJ can get his rest now. Is 70 hours enough for yall? Funny how he’s playing his best ball in the 4th quarter. Like a good running back, he keeps getting stronger.

feed him and fan him

Woody=COY

By ray

December 30, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Samuel,

I can’t help but laugh. It is funny….

Melvin,

True, but in a way, the pretty thing about it is the fact that we can win a tight one against a tough team, on the road no less. Out of the last 5 or so games Indy has played, only one has been decided by more than 2 points (prior to playing us tonight).

BravesFan79,

Jarret Jack is an example of what you want your backup point guard to be able to do, particularly when your starting pg is out. Of course, you DO have to play the guy regularly for that to happen. No worries though. Bibby could never get injured (he was only faking last year, no matter what all those folks said about him being injured in the playoffs), and he will live forever. Who needs an effective backup pg?

By kirkinga

December 30, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

My apologies, the comment at 9:59 pm attributed to Hawks Fan 85, was actually made by me.

The roomate has been playing with the laptop again and I didn’t notice in time.

Go Hawks!!

By blast

December 30, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Go Hawks, Go!!! Keep on winning, babeeee!!!!

By blast

December 30, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

Anybody still thinks the Hawks are gonna be 2-6 in the next 8 games? Ha, ha, ha, ha! Eat that crow!

By Ben

December 30, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

Ryder, you are a true moron. How dare you even question my fanhood for this team. I’ve been a Hawks fan FAR longer than you and have been to HUNDREDS of games over the years.

I’m being a realist, you moron. Do you honestly think Joe has taken all good shots all year? Do you think these ridiculous minutes are good for Joe and Bibby? Because I don’t.

I’m awaiting your reply, then I’ll tear you apart

By ray

December 30, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Well how about that. He accuses others of having an alter ego but then posts under another name “Real Hawks Fan 85”. Amazing. And I could’ve sworn Kirkinga told me a number of times that he never posted under other names and had no need to. Well, there went any former shred of credibility and integrity whatsoever.

But this is what happens when people don’t have answers. They attack, they ridicule, they claim vague reference to something maybe said a long time ago.Well, some people that is, because the question went out to more than one person.

Nothing vague about my references. My sharp memories are obviously something you find very inconvenient. Heh. But hey, at least now you are admitting to attacking and ridiculing when faced with the fact that you don’t have answers. After all, some of us have answered your questions plenty of times. You rarely answer questions that you have been asked. If pressed too hard, you are quick to respond in exactly the way you described above. I guess old habits are hard to break, eh?

By the way, Sautee has only ever posted as himself. You know, like you claimed to , Kirk. But you probably wouldn’t want to believe that. Too inconvenient. Oh well.

Like it or not, if Acie gets more minutes, it means less minutes for others. And if this happens roles change and people are now going to be asked to do things they’ve not had to do due to winning.Does Acie really come before the team?

Oooooo, that’s a good one. That argument has more straw in it than the scarecrow on the Wizard of Oz. More minutes for one does mean less minutes for another. Going by that “logic”, we should be worried about role changes from game to game. Look at Marvin tonight for example. He played only about 30 minutes to night. Evans ended up playing about 20. So which one was so adversely affected by being asked to do something he didn’t normally do?

Hmmm, sometimes minutes change due to the roles that must be played. Ever hear of trying to exploit mismatches? Winning is clearly not the reason for role changes and increase/decrease of minutes. Sometimes it’s injury. Or foul trouble. Or something. To suggest that, and the idea that Acie comes before the team is ridiculous and not well thought out at all. It’s….ridiculing somebody because you don’t have an answer. Hmmmm.

By ray

December 30, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Now that was a very, very fast disclaimer. LOL!! I can’t imagine that anybody would’ve ever figured that one out.

The roomate has been playing with the laptop again and I didn’t notice in time.

Strange how that name has never come up before on here. Hee hee!

I got a new poll idea for the AJC. “How many people think Kirk’s explanation was BS or the truth?”

LOL….gotta love ol’ Kirk…but you know I couldn’t let that one go. Nosirree!

By ray

December 30, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

Hooo, Lord I’m still laughing at that one. Kirk and his out of control roomie. Yeah, okay….I gotta go…I can’t breathe…

By ray

December 30, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Ben,

I don’t think that all these minutes are good for Bibby and Joe in the end. Some people think they are. Some people forget quickly what it was like when Joe was out with injury. Some people forget what it was like when Bibby was injured, or before he was here. And apparently they think that no such thing could happen again. They just don’t think things through, like “who’s going to carry that load and play that role when it happens?”

But it’s not really something to fight over. This blog is a bundle of opinions. None of us are making decisions within the franchise. Be cool, bro’. Peace.

By blast

December 30, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Rms I do believe Woodson’s oldest daughter is still in high school, probably underage age too, cos I saw them at a restaurant in East Point early this year. So if Acie was bunking her, and I was Woodson, I would set the cops on his sorry non-playing a*, get rid of him for good, rather than get revenge by sitting him on the pine, so that cannot be the reason Acie is not playing. Woody just prefers to play his vets right now that can deliver the win, even if Flip keeps turning over the ball. Flip played pretty good today, though.

Then again, if Acie was tapping that, I would not hold it against him because Woody has some pretty dime a* girls, man!

By Da Real Real

December 30, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Just glad to win another game! Its just a good feeling when you can expect to win and when the biggest thing to complain about now is about who is getting playing time and who is not. Instead of complaining too much I’ve begin to try and understand what Woody is doing. I felt that tonight he did a better job rotating his bench. The biggest complaint that everybody has been making is about one guy. The problem with that is if you try and squeeze in 10 minutes for one other guy you are then throwing off the rotation. I think Woody feels more comfortable with an 8 man rotation…I seriously doubt Woody would go to a 9 or 10 man rotation. Our guys are young and theoretically should be able to stay fresh.

Since we still have a LONG season ahead of us I can also understand that maybe Woody wants to win as many games as he possibly can before getting into the later months of the season. I think guys like Acie and Solo could expect more playing time in the second half of the season because it would appear the Hawks are playoff bound. I would at least hope that is the case…if its not then we probably want see Acie unless he decides to do what he did tonight and come off the bench and congratulate the guys.

By The Hawksta

December 30, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

Blast and rms ya’ll are too funny! I need to see Woody’s girls now. I mean there’s a distraction on the squad and I gonna do my research and get back to you two. I’m going undercover as my estranged roommate and will reappear when I’ve spoiled the Woody’s plans!

FREE ACIE!!!

FREE ACIE!!!

FREE ACIE!!!

By blast

December 30, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

Whats up with Ray and Kirk going at each other’s throats every blog? I thought we were all family, all Hawks fans. If you guys don’t have any personal beef going on, then can we all just get along? We are all here for a reason, right? Cos we love the Hawks. How about we spread some love this New Year? Atlanta Hawks, 21-10 baby! Who would have thunk it?

By Astro Joe

December 30, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

New Blog Up!

By Sekou K. Smith

December 30, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Thanks Joe. Happy New Year everybody.

By RLP

December 30, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

I would say that JJ was a superstar tonight. Offer Bibby a new contract. If the Hawks lose 2 of every 3 games for the rest of the year their won lost record will be better than last year. WOW/

By E. G.

December 30, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

MACARONI TONI

I was one of the guys who thought the Hawks would go 2-6, but I’m glad they didn’t.

My main concern was Woody’s coaching, Josh Smith’s bad decisions, and Flip Murray’s ball hogging. Well, it seems like Flip is trying to move the ball around more, and that has definitely helped.

One person on this blog said that Josh Smith makes mistakes, but he helps us at the end of games when we need him. Well, I have one question? Wouldn’t our leads be greater if Josh Smith made better decisions at crucial times; if he did, maybe games like games tonight would not have been so close near the end of the 4th quarter tonight.

We are a decent team, but we can be a good or excellent team (i.e., take a step to the next level) if Josh Smith finally learns to stop making bad decision and give the ball to Bibby instead of dribbling the ball up the court himself.

JOSH SMITH!!!!!!!! YOU ARE “NOT” A POINT GUARD!!!!!

Go Hawks!! Please beat play smart and beat the NJ Nets.

By Macaroni Tony

December 31, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

I think that some of the players peap into the blog this past week because they wanted to show all of us that they wanted to our low balled goals (2-6). Now we have to avenged those loses to the Net. Let’s start the new year with a win…