Hawks

By Sautee

December 5, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Sekou

I just wish our offense looked organized (beyond “Iso Joe”).

Why don’t we post Joe since they lack shot blockers?

By Sautee

December 5, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

And why did we go away from Horford after a 12 point first half?

By Sekou K. Smith

December 5, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

Great point Sautee. This Knicks offense is a revelatio. I’d be stealing some of this if I were any other team in the league.

By Sautee

December 5, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

First night of a back-to-back and Joe plays 44 minutes.

Tell me again, why did we sign Evans and Murray?

By SQUAWKER

December 5, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Who is Ciara?

By cp

December 5, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Is Law hurt or in the dog house? With the way we are developing the kid, he just might be a nice player in another 3 years.

We won but it was kind of sloppy. Too many turnovers. Guys were to relaxed on defense. Balanced scoring from the starters. The bench has seemed to shorten again.

By rms

December 5, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

I know the Hawks players jaws had to be tight wondering why the hell dont we play this type of offense. I know Josh Smith jaws had to be tight-like dang man imagine if I was involved in this type of offense. Way to go Woody with your so called half court offense and “lock down” defense.

By rms

December 5, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Who is Ciara?? Hey Sekou, please give my man the scoop on who she is please!!! Why in the world did Woodson not use his bench more. You got a first-round pick chained to the end of the bench and a couple other players that are athletically enough to run with the Knicks and play D. What is up with that? They will pay for it tommorow?

By rms

December 5, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

we signed flip and evans because Woodson only likes veterans and hates rookies!! he hates it when has to play an Acie Law, or a Solomon Jones, or a the like. He prefers veterans, plain and simple. Am I not right? Thats why we wont witness the development of Law (at least in a Hawks uniform) or a Solomon Jones coming off the bench giving J. Smith a breather or Evans relieving Joe Johnson so he wont wear out. I said it once and I will say it plenty more times…..I hate Woodson!!!! :)

By Harry

December 5, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

I don’t know who she is, but that’s about the best looking Hawk’s fan I’ve ever seen. 12-6. Just try and remember that we lost this game every time for the first 4 months last season.

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 5, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Ciara’s been coming to Hawks games since before they were good.

I am not so enamored with an offense that jacks up 34 3’s in a game and only gets to the line 6 times. If you constantly shoot 3’s it makes it easier for the other team to get long rebounds and score easy fast break points. This same offense failed to win a title in Phoenix despite having one of the best pure point guards in the game, one of the best offensive big men in the game, and a bunch of accomplished athletes on the wing including Joe Johnson at one point. Yeah it’s fun to watch, but as far as getting your team victories in the long term I don’t think it’s all that.

By Nookah

December 5, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

I watched the 3rd and 4th quarters, but generally I thought it was a sloppy 2nd half. However, even though the Knicks fought hard, we did what we had to do and got the W. In an 82 game season you expect some of those. We are 7-1 at home. What more can you ask. The next week of basketball will definitely test our mettle. After a week on the road we come right back home to face an apparently solid Cleveland team. This will be a good test for us.

I am not worried though because these are not your old Hawks. This is the new and improved version. If we can survive this and go 3-2 or at worst 2-3 we’ll be OK.

Oh by the way the 76er’s just beat Detroit (coming from 20 points down and in Detroit no less)won. This makes us the clear 4th seed in the East. Early days yet but what can I say. We’ll be in the hunt all year.

All the link gurus on this blog ahould find all the articles of the so-called experts who said we would not make the playoffs this year!!!!! Let them eat crow!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!

Nuff respect!!!!

By merbert moover

December 5, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

i really enjoy the atlanta hawks basketball team…i think they cool

By doc

December 5, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

sekou you kid of steped on some of my leading points after seeing the game. first of all i fell in love tonight. if i could have i would have stepped up. she is bee uu ti fulll! beyounce step aside.

second, a real coach does make a difference. the knicks were a team in disarray last year, has less players this year and challenged our guys to the wire. when it looked like we would take flight d’antoni simply called time out and suddenly we were fighting again to stay in the lead. we call time out with a lead and the same thing happened they got closer.

third MYK you gotta love this. ya boy flip had woody so p!ssed off he spun around and then get this sat down on the bench until he called time out after sending bibby in to relieve flip of his post. i think he muttered something to flip as he walked by.

sautee we HAD to have this one is why he played jj so many minutes hoping that jj could come up with some magic. we all know tomorrow night is gravy.

we were really off as everyone struggled with their shots and no one effectively was going down into the lane against a poor defensive team with no size to do the nasty on them underneath. of all people, david lee made life miserable for our guys.

really, a win is a win. good game and though shots didnt fall they were good shots and open shots with a lot of ball movement. again, i stress it is interesting the effect a really good coach can have on his team and enjoyed watching d’antoni make his moves. we never ever considered playing them big with solo on the bench all night. another mia was acie. seemed we didnt match up well with their quickness nor length enough to make a sustained run to put them away. duhon and nate ran around and thru us all night.

now, at 12 and 6 and onto the road. anyone want to speculate we wont be 6 games over .500 on sunday 12/14 after the cavs come to town. i hope we get 2 of the next five 14 and 9 would be clean, blink and could be 13 and 10. anyone want to suggest they win more than that of the next five? then onto 8 homers to make a run.

now where is ciara?

By Joe

December 5, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Dang I knew I shoulda went to The Hawks game tonight I wanted to meet Ciara.

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 5, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Whoa, slow your roll… she is fine, but “step aside Beyonce”? Damn, I don’t know if I’d go that far…

By Ariose

December 5, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

If we play like this in Dallas tomorrow we’re going to get crushed……

I hope Acie can give it a go tomorrow. IDK but it seemed like we missed him tonight.

~(SalimFan) Sir Links A Lot~

By rms

December 5, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

nba.com reported that acie law was suffering from flu like symptoms which was why he didnt play…

By Ciara

December 5, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

Hey baby you should of come down. I was waiting for ya.

By Ariose

December 5, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

Maan, If we sweep the texas triangle, we will really be making a statement.

~(SalimFan) Sir Links A Lot~

By The Truth

December 5, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

A rarity for me but I agree with Woody post-game assessment. The Hawks need to win the right way. Anytime you get your opponent in the foul penalty and you are not hitting 3’s (as we were), you need to score in the paint and get to the line. The few times we got to the line was not smart basketball. As much as I liked Josh game tonight, I thought that his last jump shot he hoisted up with a few minutes to go in the game, made the win difficult. In that situation, he needed to remember what he does best; drive toward the basket, use his athletics and create. He could have drawn a foul (at least) and made the win easier. That instance reminded me of the Josh of old making bone-headed decisions.

By ILL-logical

December 5, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

The mark of a good team is consistancy; the mark of a great team is being consistantly good. The Hawks proved tonight that they are still not a great team.

And unless the current incumbant head coach doesn’t stop playing JJ 40+ miutes every night AND if Josh doesn’t stop with the bone headed plays that highlight his lack of consistancy, we will not achieve the potential greatness the team is capable of.

By ray

December 5, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Well, we won despite trying to play the Knicks the way they wanted to be played. We’re better than they are, and better than we’ve ever been, plain and simple.

A few points of interest…er…confusion….

Murray seemed to catch fire against a Knicks defense that uhhh….wasn’t much of a defense. Why sit him? Our jump shooters hit some big shots towards the end, but they shouldn’t have had to do that. In fact, with Joe’s achin’ foot, I’d have taken advantage of the situation and tried to get him some rest. That bad toe is producing fewer points and more turnovers, even though he’s racking up the assists.

The Knicks couldn’t handle a winded Smith or a stronger/faster Horford. Why’d we go away from scoring in the paint?

Woody talks about matchups, then plays Zaza, but not Solo. WTF?? Okay, maybe Woody’s pal Coach Samuel can explain this one: play the slower, less nimble euro center against the smaller, faster, perimeter oriented Knicks….aaaaaand don’t play the faster, defense-all-the-way-to-the perimeter Solomon Jones? Oh, I have just got to hear this one, LOL….What made it worse was Quentin Richardson owning Zaza on the other end. C’mon Zaza. Sure, Woody shouldn’t have had you in there with the mismatchabilities that abounded, but you can’t let a 6’5/6’6 dude do you like that. I don’t care how strong they say he is.

Where was Law? I mean, it’s not like Bibby was shooting lights out or something. Surely Law could’ve played for his usual 11.5 minutes.

Anyway, 12-6 is pretty damn good, eh?

To the triangle we go…

By doc

December 5, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

ciara, i wont be at the cavs game but it might be a difficult game to get to know you with the expected crowd and all. given that maybe i could check you out at the game the 15th? glad you read the blog doll.

najeh, ciara will age really well, maybe even get better with age like vanessa williams. shame she might be a little old for me. heh heh dont tell her though.

By domeOFpain

December 5, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

You people are idiots. Don’t know who Ciara is and don’t know that Mike Woodson has done a great job of using his bench all season. Geesh….

By Ariose

December 5, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Acie wasn’t even in the building, Flu like symptoms…….He should go on the trip with the team though. He probably just needed today to rest.

~(SalimFan) Sir Links A Lot~

By ray

December 6, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

ding….

By ajw

December 6, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this

Nobody cares who ciara is. Notice no capital for her name. The Hawks team, which means nothing to most people, are more noteworthy than her/him.

By Sekou K. Smith

December 6, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this

I was stunned that that the Hawks decided to ignore that red carpet to the basket and keep shooting from deep myself. But they’ve been so good from long range this season that they’ve become addicted to playing from that range. It’s going to sneak up and bite them sometimes this season, so we might as well be ready for it.

Woodson was ticked off after the game and let his team have it in the locker room. And several of the players were not pleased about being called out. Should make for an interesting make-up session against the Mavericks tonight.

And anyone not interested in Ciara, my new girlfriend was also in the house (Keri Hilson is off limits playas), looking outlandishly fine.

You gotta love Atlanta!

By ajw

December 6, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

To think that some worthless talent like ciarra wouldn’t want such a talented writer to sit next to her means you must have a depression issue. A guy of your stature in Atlanta should automatically assume you have the right to go up and sit right next to her.

By doc

December 6, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

ray you talking to me?

By **ajw**

December 6, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

How do you like that Sekou?

By Joe

December 6, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

Sekou wow Ciara and Keri Hilson was at the game I should have been there I don’t live that far from Phillips Arena. I been to a few home games this year but this is the one I wish I went too the most I wanted to see Ciara and now u said Keri Hilson was there as well omgoodness.

Ps. I like Ciara better than Keri Hilson though even though I’ll take them both but If I had a choice I’ll take Ciara.

By The Truth

December 6, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this

Sekou Is this really you? She is fine!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 6, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

Keri Hilson is fly too, and unlike Ciara she can actually sing.

By Matt Jones

December 6, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this

Sekou

Who did Woodson call out? Why is you writers will not ask Woodson questions such as Why is it Solomon is not getting minutes when the other team are out rebounding us and scoring from the paint? Fans want to know why Woodson isn’t able to use his bench to its fullest potential? Ask some challenging questions sometimes.

By doc

December 6, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

najeh you got probs with this?

http://brownsista.com/ciara-goes-glamorous-for-victoria-secret/

maybe ariose will top it if i am lucky.

By Ariose

December 6, 2008 1:43 AM | Link to this

Looks like NBA.com got some one on one time with Ciera…..I’m jealous lol

Truth, Sekou is married. He’s just playin’ around. Chill out before you get him in trouble with a certain woman hehehehe….

By doc

December 6, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

just a little light reading about your washington dc basg contingent:

http://www.ucg.com/DisplayPage.aspx#1

ariose i knew you wouldnt let me down dude. check the link ciara off my earlier link for some additional looks.

By Joe

December 6, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this

Just imagine if the hawks got really good and deep in the playoffs it will be so many celebrities at the game. I just want the hawks to stay consistent and don’t ever go back to the old hawks days and be losers Atlanta deserves a winning team.

By Clyde

December 6, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this

Ciara is a duck compared to Pam Grier.

ROLL TIDE!!!!!!

By BA

December 6, 2008 3:14 AM | Link to this

Ray, in reference to ZaZa, did you catch the play in the fourth quarter where Johnson passed it in to Pachulia, who promptly turned it over?

You could see Woodson saying, “Joe, no more. NO MORE!”

This team is conflicted. The offense (don’t scold me, Sautee) is being run well by Bibby and Johnson. Bibby’s defense has been very good, limitations and all lately. Johnson and Evans are playing in people’s shirts.

I have a feeling Sekou Smith is right about this three-point shooting. But damn, they ARE leading the league!

But they DO need to run more offense through Smith and especially Horford. Personally, I don’t get the all or nothing this year with the shot selection- what happened to the little jumpshot-off-the-screen, fifteen-footer that we used to run with Williams? The Horford/Bibby pick-and-roll is looking better the more they run it.

On the other side of things, the defense is NOT very sharp lately overall. I’m going to chalk up the turnovers to playing D’Antoni playground ball- for now.

But Ariose called it- they better not bring this ish to Dallas and expect to win. Who’s going to guard Barea?

Don’t laugh, y’all- they’ve been starting Barea at the TWO- and he’s been lighting it up!

By cp

December 6, 2008 3:55 AM | Link to this

BA,Barea gave us trouble last year also. I think I was yelling at the tv for someone to stop the little guy. It was ridiculous.

By RA

December 6, 2008 6:12 AM | Link to this

Okay, here’s the bottomline as I see it. The Hawks held NY under 100 points last night. That proved that in the end, the Hawks were able to assert their will on the Knicks. The problem was that for the biggest part of the night, Atlanta played NY’s game at NY’s tempo. I don’t care who you’re talking about, that’s enough to usually get you beat. It was nice to see Za Za get some meaningful PT, but I really felt like Woodson wasted some opportunities last night. With a team that has NO shotblocking whatsoever, it seems like the Hawks should have given them a steady dose of Horford, Za Za, Joe, Solo, and, dare I even say it, Morris down low. Now, those bigs would have had to have gotten out and defended the perimeter, but just their being in the game would probably have slowed the tempo.

Woodson thinks that if you really need a win, you’re going to have to ride some players hard. Sometimes that’s true, but the biggest and most important thing is to find out what teams like to do and take it away as best you can. I don’t feel like the Hawks do that often enough. It didn’t hurt them tonight, but it will.

By cwm

December 6, 2008 6:41 AM | Link to this

SEKOU I noticed a spat last night between woodson and flip what was that all about …. it did not look friendly . … then flip was banished to the bench the rest of the night… TELL WOODSON YOU CATCH MORE FLIES WITH HONEY THAN LEMON …. let us know the scoop

By richbrave

December 6, 2008 7:12 AM | Link to this

I see BETTIE PAGE is done. Only thing I didn’t like about her was the whips and chains. 1955, what a bod for a 12 year-old to gaze upon.

By Bertie

December 6, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

The Hawks better bring their A game tonight if they want to beat Dallas. The Mavs started the season slow but they are 8-2 in the last 10 and have a 3 game winning streak. Thanks in part to JJ BAREA who have been running all over the place in the last two games scoring 15 and 18. Like BA said who is going to guard him?

By Lacsho

December 6, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

Good win last night. The hawks have fallen in love with the long jump shot, and Woody finally decides to jump in their Azz. I trying to understand why he doesn’t yank their azz out of the game, and sit them down. It seems like the imamates are running the asylum. We have enough talent on the bench to replace the stubborn players jacking up long jumpers on a consistent basis. Furthermore, it’s hard to complain about Woody when we have a 12-6 record, however; I think a better coach could take this team to another level.

Next, I think I said this before. Every time I go to the Hawks games the eye candy is beautiful. I can’t wait to get back to Phillips.

I watched the games on line, and the NY announcers chimed in on something that’s been stated over and over on this blog. They made a comment about Bibby lack of defense. I’m not going to stick it to Mr. Bibby; his offense was off the chain last week. Yet I think everyone in the league believes they can exploit us with a quick point guard.

Peace

By doc

December 6, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

a different perspective …. seems we got the knicks at a good time and that they have been dinged up pretty good.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/sports/basketball/06knicks.html?_r=1&ref=sports

ba agree on the conflicted state and the beginnings of mistrust that starts at the top. i had that intuitive thoght while i was at the game. ther were times of indecision and the team looked tight. we may see more of the rotating seven, iso joe and a cloud of dust in the near future.

clyde, seems like you might go chasing the oder more mature types in rio, no? here i’ll give you another bone to chew on:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/sports/ncaafootball/06alabama.html?th&emc=th

By Sautee

December 6, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

Nookah

About this:

I watched the 3rd and 4th quarters, but generally I thought it was a sloppy 2nd half.

Careful there bud. If Gary Bettman sees you talking about sloppy 2nd’s he’ll suspend you from the blog! Just ask Sean Avery. ;-)

By doc

December 6, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

i guess ciara brings that out in us guys sautee.

degenerates all.

By Sautee

December 6, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

doc

Sorry I missed it. But I’ll still take issue with playing Joe that many minutes. If Woody wants to play small ball, fine, but use Solo and Hunter. Isn’t a game like that, featuring smaller, quicker post men EXACTLY the kind of game that Solo and Hunter could excel in?

Also, why not call a time out and yank from the game any and all who are not taking it to the hole?

Why not keep forcing the ball inside to Horford and Smith?

Woody would rather chide players after the game, than make them “man up” during the game. That’s NOT coaching, it’s babysitting.

After all, who’s in charge here?

I’m not saying he’s a terrible coach (are you listening Sam?), but he’s SO old school and his communication certainly failed to get their attention last night. Yes, we won, but we certainly didn’t play “the right way”, in that we fell into their trap of forcing outside shots early in the clock when they offered NO resistance at the rim. Woody said as much later.

So where were the timeouts called to get in their faces during the game?

We could / should have won this by double digits easily.

By ant banks

December 6, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

can someon remind me why we got rid of harrington? he was thrashing us last night. considering all of the disfunction in new yrk they are still in the mix in the east and if they ever get cuttino watch out

By Sautee

December 6, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

From The Department Of Irony

Former NBA player Corie Blount was charged with felony drug possession after authorities saw him pick up a package they knew contained marijuana, then found more marijuana at his home, the Butler County sheriff said Friday.

Blount was a volunteer coach this season at Cincinnati State and earned a degree this year in criminal justice.

By doc

December 6, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

ant, al “thrashed us” when it didnt count and came up small in the end. i will give him his 25 shots, wasnt it, to get 27 points any night or give up 55 points to any player if it takes him 50 shots to get it. al looked like he could make a difference early, ultimately he didnt. good for you fantasy team and all the good he is right now in the antoine walker realm.

By Lacsho

December 6, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Banks

Harrington fell in love with the jumper, and he hated playing in the post. (Even though he is a very skillful post player)Furthermore, we had just drafted Marvin, and need I mention Salary cap problems.(cheap ownership) Harrington is nice on the offensive end, but he’s suspect on defense.

Suatee

*Also, why not call a time out and yank from the game any and all who are not taking it to the hole?

Why not keep forcing the ball inside to Horford and Smith?

Woody would rather chide players after the game, than make them “man up” during the game. That’s NOT coaching, it’s babysitting.

After all, who’s in charge here?*

Exactly!!!

What’s Good Doc

Give Ciara a nice hug for me lol

By hawkeye

December 6, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

No Speedy recovery

*Former Hofstra star Speedy Claxton, who has battled hand and knee injuries since signing a four-year, $25-million contract with the Hawks in 2006, had hopes of being an integral part of coach Mike Woodson’s rotation this season. But Claxton hasn’t played at all because of a left knee injury.

“He’s still working,” Woodson said. “… Speedy’s still a big part of what we do. But I can’t sit here and wait on him … We’re still hoping that Speedy can make it back. And that’s going to be up to Speedy and when he’s ready to play.”* —- hoopshype.com

whatever man….

By Kmjice

December 6, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Ciara is a hip-hop/R&B artist. Why didn’t nobody Answer that yet. She’s top five women in hip hop. And she is beautiful. I wish I was at the game. I would sit and talk to her like a human and not a celebrity. But about the hawks. We won the game. Boston barely beat us. But what’s that still. A lost. Second. Joe needed to be in. He’s a superstar who creates other shots for everybody else. Next. We had 6 players in double figures. Sounds good to me. And when josh smith get all his wind back. He will average about twenty a game and 4 blocks. 9 rebounds. And third. Solo should always play before zaza. This is a athletic team. And our style is jus not right for zaza. And zaza can’t go left. At least solo blocks shots and has gotten better. And we can vest Dallas. They not even better then us this year. Too many match up problems for our starting five. And mike woodson. I didn’t like him last year. But his team has gotten better every year he’s been here. And oh yeah. If we win more then 50 games. He’s coach of the year. If we win more then 60. Joe Johnson is MVP. If we win more then 40 by the all-star break. We will have five starters as all- stars this year. Josh smith should be back in the dunk contest. And y is marvin not takin more threes. I believe in his shot now. Now use it.

By The Truth

December 6, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Ariose What’s that….You say Sekou is married and he’s just foolin around and you want me to chill out before I get him in trouble. OK, I’ll chill out.

I’m sorry Man, I can stop laughing

By Ken Strickland

December 6, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

DOC-I’m truly amazed at your lack of imagination. You never ask exceptionally well endowed woman like Beyonce or Ciara to move over. You flip a coin, that is, unless you get really really really lucky and don’t have to.

By Tiger Woo

December 6, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Clyde,

Pam Grier is 59 years old! I know she is probably aging like fine wine, but she’s gramdma material now! LOL !!

By Sautee

December 6, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Clyde

Enjoy the game this afternoon.

Tide needs several 1st half 6.5+ minute drives like they did against the Dawgs.

Three and outs against the gators just gives them too many chances.

But, I’ll go out on a limb and say that Alabama’s defense is good enough to win if the gators get fewer chances.

By kwooden1

December 6, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Another good win by the guys, I can’t take anything away from taking care of business. I didn’t get a chance to see the game, but from looking at the stats, it appears Woody is back to his old ways. Heard Law was hurt but no time for Solo, doesn’t make any sense! Again, it’s very hard to give Woodson any extra credit for the wins. He has always seemed to talk about the obvious things that need to be worked on and develop a good defensive plan before games. (Every coach does that!) The problem has always been that when it comes to the game, he gets scared and doesn’t use his bench or really doesn’t have any creative plays to run.

Against Dallas, I have no problem with Smith on Nowitzki or even Bibby on Kidd. (Kidd will postup Bibby, but I can live with that) Horford and Dampier is a tough matchup in terms of strength, but I’ll never lose sleep over Horford against anyone. This is a game the HAWKS can win, even though it’s the end of a back-to-back. I’m sure that Terry’s going to have a great game, but I like the matchup of Williams against George or any of their SFs. This should be a great game to watch.

GO HAWKS!!

By hawkeye

December 6, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

for some odd reason bibby has always played well against kidd eversince he was a king. i don’t think he will be a liability defensively against dallas. i say we let josh guard nowitzki. i don’t think marvin is good enough to contain dirk.

By BosnianBaller

December 6, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

We can go 3-1 on this trip.no t-mac in houston

By Mario

December 6, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

I was at the game last night. What happened between Flip and Coach Woodson during 2nd half..I saw he made a turnover and whe he came out he pointed tothe end of the bench and was hollering at Woodson and then when he sat down Woodson said something to Al and he went over and talke to Flip. But when coach turned around he saw Al talking to him and he yelled something and Al quickly left Flip and went and sat next to the Asst. Coaches., then Woodson contd to rant at Flip and Marvin waived him off….

By jhan

December 6, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Sautee - I don’t think the “jock sniffers” on the blog would be very happy if Woody started to get in players faces during the game. If Woody blew up on a player during the game this blog would be filled with “Fire Woody” entries.

Remember this happened last year with Josh Smith & most were up in arms about the fact that Woody would “show up” Josh during a game. The same folks thought it was fine for Josh to tell his coach to “F-Off” on television.

By Tiger Woo

December 6, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Good for Woody. Sometimes a coach needs to step up and let the players know who’s in charge and what he expects. Play it too soft and let the players control you and you’ll be the “former” head coach.

By Sautee

December 6, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

jhan

Maybe it’s a respect issue, but I’ve seen Popovich get in Duncan’s face (and that was before they won a championship). So I’m not buying the angle of “not showing up” a player when perhaps that’s exactly what is needed.

I do hear what you’re saying (about the “jock sniffers”) jhan, but I just think that’s a separate issue. But maybe Woody doesn’t have the weight or respect necessary to do it that way. Or maybe it’s just not his style, though he had no problem getting in Zaza’s grill coming off the floor after a bad turnover. So perhaps there’s an inverse equation relative to the players’ production as far as open criticism goes.

I just hate to hear him saying that the team wasn’t playing the right way (after the game) when he seemed to do nothing DURING the game to change it.

And wasn’t that dustup between Woody and Josh two years ago?

By Ariose

December 6, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Check out Slamonline’s Gamenotes from last night.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

December 6, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Nice Lang Whitaker Article about steph.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Astro Joe

December 6, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

doc, what led to Woody giving Flip the gas face? Do you remember the sequence of events?

It would be a shame if Acie misses a trip back home to Dallas.

By kirkinga

December 6, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Ugly win last night, but a win nonetheless. Last year we lose that type of game.

Question: Is a “jock sniffer” the same as pimping for certain player(s)? Just curious.

The Hawks are 12-6. Just wanted to state that for the record again because to read the comments it would be easy to assume that people here were talking about a 6-12 team.

I’m on record for not being a big Woodson fan, but this team went into a losing streak with key players out and hurt. But the team came out of it and now with better health, the team seems to have a big upside.Oh, and did we forget we started out 6-0?

I believe in giving credit when and where credit is due. A team is what it’s record says it is, and at this point Coach Woodson is winning twice as many games as he’s losing.I got no problem with that even though I have found his coaching suspect in the past.

I know that commending Woodson for anything, including the team’s success is a violation of the Ruling Rules(1. Thou shalt never speak well of ASG; 2. Thou shalt never speak well of Coach Woodson; 3. Thou shalt never speak ill of Josh Smith who is the bravest,kindest, most talented, stat column filling, etc….)but some one has to be fair.

12-6, 12-7, 12-8, even, I’m happy. To watch a Hawks game now is to expect a win, not a loss. That’s powerful to me. A complete reversal from previous seasons. I got hope for my team

I’m enjoying the ride folks! I understand that years of losing has created a type of Learned Miserableness, a special bond of negativity among some frequent bloggers. I wish one day, any day, I could check out a Hawks blog where the positive comments outweighed the negative comments, but I fear the Ruling Rules will never allow that day, that blog, to come into existence.

Go Hawks!!!

By doc

December 6, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

kirk, i got it you are happy. that is until one talks of sending escobar somewhere then you do the josh smith dont say anything wrong about the man routine. funny even you are reemphasizing what ando said just wednesday night. guess you missed it.

aj flip lost control of himself and the ball. a poor choice and woody reached his limit and let flip have it i guess. when flip made his unforced error i looked woody’s way and he swirled around, probably screamed something and then sat down. it wasnt long before bibby went back into the game. i guess i missed the further fireworks between the two because i think he ignored him as he went off the court but i had seen enough to know that woody went off immediately as the play happened. i had never seen woody do that and act so demonstrative. he definitely went beyond the usual statue of BWAF.

By jhan

December 6, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Sautee - I’m with you on the coach correcting the problem immediately. Why wait until after the game? I think Woody should get in a players face if it is warranted. You may be right that he doesn’t have that kind approach or respect from his players.

I’ve said before that I’m not a big Woody fan, but for now what is there to complain about? Like Kirk said, he’s winning twice as many games as he’s losing. No complaints from me with that kind of production.

By Ariose

December 6, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately for those of us who taped the game, the camera panned away while flip was mking his “ill-advised” turnover. I’ll admit when Rathburn said we turned the ball over I was screaming at the T.V (start of the 4th qtr I beleive……pivotal moment I guess) but was the tunover really that bad? I need more details. What was flip doing when he turned the ball over?

Besides the game was soo clese because Woody decided to go small whenver Smoove left the game instead of big with Solo. Good teams establish their own identiy on the court regardless of who their opponet is. You don’t see the Celtics going small and changing who they are in order to Win do you? Of coure not, they impose their identity on you. The Hawks are Blue Collar bangers who need to get down and dirty in order to get W’s. Woody fed the Knicks ego(and firepower) with his choice of rotation and we got too flashy and almost lost the game…….Al and Josh should have had 20 apice, and Solo surely would have racked up a few blocks……he didn’t look eitirely thrilled sitting over there on the bench.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By doc

December 6, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

aj, i had alluded to it many times that i thought flip was out of control in many situations and making some mental errors not tolerated in a younger player. just yesterday myk and i had been going on about it. i guess woody gave him enough rope to hang himself. i am not implying he handled it wrong because i dont have clue as to what was said either way. i t was just a funny sight to see woody so animated. we all know flip better get a line to delp to know the dog house has no lights in it to get out of, if he is not careful.

By Big John Hawks Fan

December 6, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Check out those f*** t**!!!

By Large in the Pants

December 6, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

I’m glad we finally shut Harrington up after he clowned us for that season where it took us 10 games to get a win. That a pussywillow!!! GO HAWKS!!! HAWKS SHOCK THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Bring the PAIN

December 6, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

Good thing I watched the game last night: had I seen Ciara in person, I would have been caught on the Jumbotron jerking my c**! THUNDERSTICKS!!!

By doc

December 6, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

ariose it was a very bad looking play on flip’s part to the point but the type of play i have questioned in the past. i was looking on with my mouth open then it got funny with woody showing such “moves”; arms flailing, jacket swinging and him twirling around in disgust. then he of all things sat down which i have never seen him do, ever. sorry i missed the fireworks that seemed to come later. it is all good and probably been dealt with and defused already, if only you could have seen woody. heh heh

By Where's the D? Right Here...

December 6, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Ciara should come to more games so the Hawks can get more fast break while the other teams are busy shaking one out. Yeah, that’s the ticket! ASG, have your people call my people!

By Soldier of Fortune

December 6, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

I wonder if Ciara’s mouth is big enough for my DICK??!!

By Tim Tebow

December 6, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

I heard Ciara likes it in the butt…

By doc

December 6, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

sorry clyde, too much tebow dude, maybe next year. heh heh, enjoy the quarter.

heard the stews on 790 trashing tebow on friday saying he had no arm and couldnt make it to the next level. dont know who they were talking about as he made just about every pass you need to have; feather touch, hard passes into traffic or throwing long and constantly threw it where no one else could get to it.

By Flame Patrol

December 6, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

The Stews like it in the butt too. Why else would they be yelling so much?

By hawksta

December 6, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

is it me or does sports south have both the hawks game and the thrashers on tonight on the same channel at overlapping times. thrashers 7:00p and hawks 8:30p

By hawksta

December 6, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

can someone tell me what channel to catch the game on tonight?

By terrell barron

December 6, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

What channel is the game on?

By terrell barron

December 6, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

I’m confused myself hawksta. Wtf?

By hawksta

December 6, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

leave it up to the ajc

By hawksta

December 6, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

found it on 48 terrell barron thx for getting back

By IWANTYOURJOB

December 6, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Does anyone at this paper read the crap before they print it?

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

SPORTS ON THE AIR

TV SATURDAY

NBA Hawks at Mavericks 8:30 p.m. SPSO

By Sautee

December 6, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

No Horford.

Good thing we’ve got a euro-center!

And he’s outplaying a Mississippi State man. Schoolin’ him, even on 2 straight trips.

Hope Samuel has a double in his hands. ;-)

By Fred B.

December 6, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

What the hell is wrong with Flip …committing offensive fouls, turning the ball over, getting technicals…Woody neds to get him out of there ASAP

By hawkeye

December 6, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

what happened to horford? isn’t he going to play? is he injured or something? i hope he’s not.

By where's Harford

December 6, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Where is Al Horford?

By Sautee

December 6, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

FlipMo Squad had an o-fer half. Good thing Acie and Solo brought something or we’d have zero bench production.

Although Zaza is usually off the bench and he has 8 rebounds, 4 points, a block and a steal in 17 minutes.

By Where's Al Horford

December 6, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Where is Al Horford?Hopefully he’s not injured?

By Melvin

December 6, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

Too many calls for the Mavs… This officiating is terrible.

By Melvin

December 6, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

Can we please get rid of Mike Woodson. He pulled AC out of the game for missing a defense assignment that allow his man to score. Only to replace him with Bibby and have him defend someone different and the guy AC defended scores again on the next trip down the floor… Go Figure.

By cp

December 6, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Absolutely pathetic effort on the defensive end in the 3rd quarter. The offense in the 3rd was equally as bad. Barera is looking like a hall of famer out there.

By terrell barron

December 6, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

Dammitt JJ!! Get Bibby the damn ball. He was on fire. Good comeback though.

By E. G.

December 6, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

I sorry guys, but Josh Smith does not know how to finish around the basket on the offensive end. He is not an offensive threat around the basket because he does not know how to use the backboard like his former teammate Josh Childress. This is getting ridiculous. I wouldn’t be surprised if we lost 4 games in a row. We definitely won’t beat Cleveland because they are beating teams by and average of 24 points before garbage time.

By E. G.

December 6, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

“Good Comeback though!!!” They lost the game. I guess we will be saying “good comeback” for the next three games.

By cp

December 6, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

We had a chance to tie the game when Josh stole the ball. Instead of giving it up to Bibby or Joe he tried to dribble down the court thus turning the ball right back over. We had a chance in this game but that ugly 3rd quarter hurt us.

Josh needs to start dunking the ball like he was doing his first two years in the league. These past few years he has gotten cute around the hoop and instead of dunking it as he did when he first came in the league, he tries to lay the ball up. When you have those typs of hops and finishing ability, you dunk the damn ball with power and let other guys have that cute crap.

By E. G.

December 6, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Josh needs to dunk, which is true, but where are his fundamentals. He still hurts us just as much as he helps us. It’s time for him to get some fundamentals. I am tired of seeing him unable to finish around the basket in the midst of traffic. Josh Smith really frustrates me. What offensive/postup threat (from a forward) do we have around the basket when Al Horford is not in the game.

By doc

December 6, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

al hurt his ankle in last nights game and sat for a significant amount of time and that was probably why zaza saw any action last night. he seemed to favor it in when he came back onto the court. i imagine it was not good when he woke up this a.m. is my guess. did i miss anything tonight.

seems like flip is self destructing?

By reese

December 6, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

The hawks seem to equate slowing the tempo of the game plus keeping the score low equals playing good defense. In the 3rd quarter, hawks players were walking up the court on offensive and not hustling back on defense. On the reverse layup by barera, JJ has got to leave his man Diop and help zaza out. I never saw Marvin help out to try and stop barera. Josh Smith tried to play help defense, but his legs just are not there yet.

Another problem is that woodson has the 2nd team slowing the pace as well. This doesn’t compliment the mindset nor skills of his second team. Woodson waits until the 4th quarter to have his team play zone defense against barera.

I’m not upset with Woodson not having timeouts left at the end of the game. Josh Smith’s steal from Nowitski and subsequent pushing the ball down court to lose it to Jason Kidd is systematic of philosophy/coaching/personel on the floor for fast breaks. Someone has to run with Josh to give him someone to pass the ball and keep Josh from being double teamed.

The easy answer is to say that Josh should give the ball up to a guard. However, the guards were behind Josh and didn’t sprint down court to fill the lanes. What’s the best answer going forward.

Practice fast break concepts in practice that seem to play out in games. In other words, allow Josh and Al horford lead some of the fast breaks. This allows the coaches to teach them the concept of jump stop, gets them comfortable with dribbling in traffic and makes the other players know that they must be in the proper place to help Josh and Al.

Finally, why was Marvin Williams just standing under the basket when JJ took the 3pt shot to tie the game. Then, when the shot is missed Marvin stops and doesn’t foul Jason Kidd who is a 67% free throw shooter.

By ray

December 6, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

JJ certainly looks to be back in form.

Bibby shot well.

Josh Smith didn’t play so great. He’s trying too hard to make things happen. No instance was more apparent than when he lost the ball after stealing it late in the 4th quarter. Almost a good play, but instead a mirror-image of the same bumbling play Bibby made earlier.

Our bench provided next to nothing, and the bench players weren’t even included much into the game. The highlight of this was when Law made a mistake (turnover) and was immediately yanked by Woodson.

Juan Barea torched us. He showed every guy we had how to run a lay-up drill. Disgusting. The guy is quick and savvy, though.

Our team defense was good in spots, but those were rare.

Funny, our relationship with the jumper both lost and nearly won the game.

It hurts when Horford isn’t around. We needed an inside presence on offense. Josh could’ve been that, but he couldn’t get his head out of his butt on occasion. That, and a certain coach was having just way too much fun with that JJ ISO. It was working, yeah. But we were also hurting due to a lack of productive ball movement….again. Let’s be honest. 5 passes, then give the ball to JJ in the end is not true ball movement or sharing the basketball. It’s a prolonged JJ ISO.

All the same, JJ was on…

I can hear the usual refrain now: when we win, Woodson is a good coach. When we lose, the players aren’t executing. Heh.

We almost made it back, but couldn’t quite get over the hump. And here’s the thing: that’s not what the game was about. We should’ve never been down by nearly 20.

Hopefully we have Horford back soon, though I’m not holding my breath. All the same, our problem continues to be intensity. We just don’t have it at the same level we did during the first 7 or 8 games. It should come right back, though.

I’m looking forward to Josh getting his legs back all the way, too. He looked a tad winded again out there. Glad JJ feels better.

Well, on to Houston and a different set of matchup problems. Let’s get ‘em boys…

By reese

December 6, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

Just to respond to some previous blogs.

Doc, enjoying to watch the leadership, skills and craftiness of bibby is not emotional. Watching his nice shooting is just a bonus to his other attributes. Gambling on choosing who the right up and coming younger point guard for the hawks future that has the respect of the coach, compliments joe johnson, has the leadership of a veteran, willingness to take the big shot and understand the concept of team defense is not a chance I’d take anytime soon.

richbrave, yes solo has the bigger upside than Zaza. It doesn’t make any sense for solo to get DNPs at this stage of his career. Yet, Woodson doesn’t play him against the knicks.

mannyt, yes, both lister and hill learned enough to stay in the league a long time. However, both players have similar skills which revolve around defensive toughness, hustle plays, maintaining your position while covering a bigger player and scrapping for offensive rebounds. Neither of these players were focal points on the offensive where you could run plays through them or count on them to provide an offensive threat.

By ray

December 6, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Reese,

That apparently is an ongoing misconception on the part of the Hawks. Keeping the score low is indeed not the same as playing good defense.

As for Josh Smith on that break, if he makes the play, he’s a hero. He didn’t, so now he’ll be the goat. And people will forget that Bibby did the exact same thing earlier in the game while trying to take Barea off the dribble. Somebody does need to get up the court with Josh. Guys need to haul a$$ up the court like they’re responding to a fire when a play like that is made.

And there’s little excuse for it, because Josh was met by Kidd and a couple of other guys. Kidd doesn’t exactly streak up the floor at lightspeed these days. At the same time, neither does Bibby. But somebody has to do it. Until then, we either hold our collective breaths and hope that Josh makes the play, or he passes the ball to one of the guys that’s behind him, and we lose all fast break opportunity.

Either way, somebody needs to forumlate a plan of action for this. As you say, this begins with coaching. You may as well say it ends there, too.

Some people will see this as negative opinion. I see it as strategic development.

By ray

December 7, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

E.G.,

Josh Smith helps more than he hurts. Funny, where were you during those first four or five games where he was averaging a double double and straight tagging everything that came near the paint? Was he hurting us then too?

So…. what do we do differently to win a game like this?

By hawkfan

December 7, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

it’s funny how smith’s lack of fundamentals becomes a subject once he’s back playing and how having al horford on the court makes a huge difference but when the opposite occurred when smith was out, horford was seen as playing without intensity and sometimes not much into the game, maybe he was actually about his statement that smith compliments his style of play and now after seeing the game i think smith needs him as much as he needs smith because with horford on the court smith can block shots and defend without worrying about offense too much because that is where horford is good act, when one of them is out of the game the other player’s weaknesses is exposed, but i do like JJ’s comment that “pride does not give you the W” which is true and shows how much is a leader of the team and takes responsibility for the loss also, i think acie was frustrated especially when he got out the game quickly and had to hear woodson talk to him about the turnover, i mean it was his hometown but he couldn’t put on a show, but i think we took nowitzki out of his comfort zone, and at the end jason terry was probably thinking in his head “i know i am not going to lose to this team” but bibby and jj were good at the end, say what you want but if bibby was not on this team this season we wouldn’t even be near a record of 12-7, which is still good

By Ken Strickland

December 7, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

It seems like Woodson’s way of dealing with certain players is beginning to take its toll on Flip Murray.

By cp

December 7, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

Bibby and JJ might be the only two players Woodson has not got into it with.

By hawkeye

December 7, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

bad 3rd Q performance and HUGE turnovers cost us this game.

By The Truth

December 7, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

As much as I like Bibby offensive threat I still believe he is the defensive weak link of the starters. For Barea to have that kind of offensive performance is an indictment on Bibby’s defense. We get toasted often when we are matched against teams with young quick penetrating pgs who loves the paint. New Orleans is the only exception. Teams will continue to exploit our PG weakness. I notice Dallas saw this weakness and made adjustment during halftime and Barea got active in the 3rd quarter. It’s hard to make Josh the goat in this game for causing that critical turnover because it was Josh who caused the opportunity in the first place. The game was really lost in the 3rd quarter when Barea went off for 20 points courtesy of Mike Bibby.

Ken to your point, Woody relationship with a number of his bench players is beginning to take its toll including Acie and Flip. Acie lack of development shows. Flip seems to be playing with a bad attitude. Mo plays timid trying not to make a mistake. I don’t know what was said in the locker room following the NYK games but it has manifested into a poor bench performance in this Dallas game.

With an aging slow Bibby needing some help at the point, he is not going to find it from the seeds Woody has planted from his bench. We just have to live with getting beat by teams with quick young penetrating PG who loves the paint.

By hawkeye

December 7, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this

i’m just curious why didn’t woody just used west to shut down barea in the 3rd. considering that he’s our best lock down perimeter defender who’s sole purpose is to shut down small guards instead of using evans who by the way is also a good defender but not effective offensively tonight. if i were woody i’d risked using mario to guard barea and see what will happen. woody should always be aware that there’s someone in that bench who can be the pace changer. he didn’t utilized his bench very well.

By reese

December 7, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

How is it that the Mavericks can play 9 players 20 mins or more and the hawks can only play 5 players more than 20 mins.

How is that only Josh Smith is the hawks player who consistently places entries in every positive/defensive category. Yet, the Houston Rockets had 4 players do it on Friday night.

How is it that Woodson consistently complains about hawks players not getting points in the paint, yet won’t place Solo/Zaza/Morris in the game at the same time. You know, players who can’t do anything else but take shots from down low.

Yes Flip Murray is not playing as well as he was at the beginning of the season. But to only receive 9 mins against dallas and 15 mins against new york is not giving him enough time to play through mistakes like the starters.

I would think that veteran players use their natural instincts and skills at the beginning of the season when they come to new teams. But as they are coached by their new coaches they learn and play in the style that the coaches teach.

Woodson stated in his postgame that he has to get back in touch with his bench. Hopefully, he will give them more playing time, stop with the DNPs, devise schemes that best utilizes their skills, allow them to play through their mistakes and allow them to regain the confidence in which they were playing at the beginning of the season.

Hint to woodson, maybe flip can’t run the iso play as good as JJ and you need to devise a different offensive play.

By hawkeye

December 7, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this

TheTruth can’t blame it on bibby. the guy can raelly score. even if we match him against quicker guards the results will be the same. i’ll make harris as an example. he scored 30+ pts. against quick guards. evans was the one guarding barea in the 3rd. but the guy is just too fast.

By happyhawk

December 7, 2008 2:05 AM | Link to this

DAMN IT! woody USE your bench WISELY!!!

By HB Ando

December 7, 2008 2:05 AM | Link to this

Win against the Knicks was ugly. Loss against the Mavs was expected, at least historically.

Now we’re 12-7. But we now go to Houston, San Antonio and Miami (discounted by many, here, this summer), and then come home to play the Cavs.

If we’re legit, we’ll take a game or two. But it will pose a challenging question if, a week from now, we are 12-11.

Again, the breakdown of this season, to date, is 6-0 and 6-7. Four straight losses would put us at 6-11 since our fast start. And such a run would really challenge which team the Hawks are, going forward.

Someone mentioned that we held the Knicks under 100. True. But it was at home, and they had been giving up about 104, coming in. So, if you’re going to highlight both sides of the story, they held us down, as well.

Tale of two streaks. Which one is real?

By reese

December 7, 2008 2:07 AM | Link to this

Hawkfan, maybe one day we’ll see Solo, Horford and Smith in the game on defense at the end of games. Imagine if these 3 could develop offensive and defensive chemistry. Maybe would see more 20 20 games like amare.

Maybe if JJ played fewer minutes, but at an increased intensity, we would see more 37 points in 34 minutes like Dwayne Wade did on Saturday night.

Maybe the person keeping stats missed a blocked by bibby in the first half and a steal by JJ in the 4th quarter comeback.

Maybe I’m being to critical and its time to go to bed.

P.S. nice double double zaza and good defense on Nowitski down the stretch.

By reese

December 7, 2008 2:08 AM | Link to this

Ray, I was thinking about these late game situations a few blogs ago when I mentioned that woodson would have a dilema once Josh came back. Who would he have in there late in games Evans or Marvin.

I bet Evans would have hustled down court to be a recipient of a Josh Smith pass.

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 7, 2008 2:49 AM | Link to this

“Tale of two streaks. Which one is real?”

While we’re talking about streaks, we are 6-1 with Josh Smith — with the loss being a last second loss on the road against a pretty good home team — and 6-6 without Josh Smith.

I don’t think the initial 6-0 or the following 6-7 are entirely accurate, but I think we are closer to the 6-0 team than the 6-7 team.

By HB Ando

December 7, 2008 3:01 AM | Link to this

noteworthy is the obvious pandering for ray, well beyond each layer of supplication, that both highlights, and limits, the weight that’s meant to be carried, to drive this conundrum of either perpetuatelly directed opinion, or far more convoluted plausibility, as time and action coincide, violently, to populate an aggressive, and generally feasable, outcome, minimizing the overall damage of otherwise uncertain, and addled brains, no so much unwilling to stand tall, and accept a poorly constructed fate, as suddenly aware that a general haze, amalgamated of fractionuous discombobulation, might be confused for the foundation for mortal reconciliation, while a much more reasonable, “no body needs to expire this very evening”” perspective; all left to chance and the choice to discuss over drinks.

All give words, many of passion. But the ease of the forum, allows floatiing accountability for the commitment to spoken words, and firmly taken positions. So is it necessary to delineate what you want to say, and where you take umbridge, stripping out non-points, and committing yourself to specific points of contention.

Say your peace. Defend your place. Let the discussion find a better truth.

doc, is this Zen enough for you????

By BA

December 7, 2008 5:00 AM | Link to this

I think someone has gotten into the cooking sherry…

After watching last night, and reading about Woodson dressing down his team (to mixed reviews at best) I was watching tonight for any signs of restless natives or lack of control on the part of Woodson.

But I didn’t see that. I saw focus, execution, and zero signs of a revolt- in the first half. The third quarter until late in the fourth, that was ugly. The constant turnovers, the emergence of Air Juan freakin Barea- gruesome.

I know ya’ll are less than enamored with Woodson, but this one isn’t on him. These guys played great defense during 80% of this game.

And the Joe iso works better than anything we have in the half court. Sorry, I know it’s not creative or flashy, but it’s the number one most effective play we run. Smith and Horford are a couple of future All-Stars, but they’re 22 (and 23, now), and they’ve got a ways to go before we’re feeding them like the Diesel down there. Go to the young guys more often early in games? Yes, of course.

But it’s going to Johnson and Bibby taking the big shots late, it’s the nature of this team right now.

Just like (two years after the fact) it’s the Dallas Mavericks nature to start seeing images of Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson launching threes around the end of every fourth quarter. I don’t care how many elderly point guards and Jim Carrey looking coaches they bring in- Dallas will never win a title with this outfit, super Barea or not.

Remember, the Joe iso was good enough to win Game Six…

By doc

December 7, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

what does get in touch with my bench mean? that may even be more vaporous as the ando zen run on above. like how do you get your hands around that comment by woody?

problem with josh coughing it up in the waning minutes? didnt see last nights game but it sounds just like what he had just done against new york the night before. woody was conciliatory to him then, patting him hard on the butt coming off the court for a good steal but dumb run against three knicks to the basket. josh tends to want to do too much and sees himself still playing against high schoolers when he could get away with a one on three defenders run down the court. smith needs to get it that he is mortal against these guys when he has the ball in his hands against three of them he needs to pull up like every other NBA star and mature to the situation.

maybe marvin didnt or even evans wouldnt have been able to keep up but i imagine chills would have been right there with him as he was so many times last year. he might have been able to pass him and catch a pass. josh and chills had some chemistry too. chills was the finisher in games last year not marvin.

By Sautee

December 7, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

doc

Great point about Chills. He could have and likely would have helped last night. And you are right, Marvin was on the bench at the end of games last year.

But that’s woulda / coulda / shoulda and he’s in Greece. C’est la vie!

(yes, I know that’s French, but I don’t know Greek for “that’s life”) I’m sure that MannyT could send me a link to a translation site. ;-)

“get in touch with my bench”. heh.

By Sautee

December 7, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

The Truth

About this (to Ken S.):

Ken to your point, Woody relationship with a number of his bench players is beginning to take its toll including Acie and Flip. Acie lack of development shows. Flip seems to be playing with a bad attitude. Mo plays timid trying not to make a mistake.

In my response yesterday to jhan I put forth the idea that perhaps there’s an inverse equation relative to the players’ production as far as open criticism goes. This would seem to dovetail with what you’ve noticed. JJ and Bibby have carte blanche and get no obvious criticism, and it goes downhill from there.

And I’m sure that, to some degree this is a league-wide paradigm, with established stars getting less criticism than bench players.

But the best coaches will challenge their stars, and will develop their bench. Will Woody?

By Sautee

December 7, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Can anybody else here see Acie in the role that Barea played for Dallas last night?

Just put him in and let him penetrate, which is his greatest strength.

I guess that would take some imagination. Carlisle has it, does Woody?

By doc

December 7, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

sautee, just a reminder of the impact of that “non-move” to those that scoffed at its relevance almost duplicated later in the summer. thank you mr brand for leaving california though it has not worked out yet for that team it has for the hawks. hopefully our own management has learned in the same way we want smith to learn, eh? you know, dont keep making the same mistake over and over … i assume all is pleased with the way woody is following up on his own self criticism about the bench and how it was used last year. can we call it a top down management style?

By DecDawg

December 7, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

The lack of creativity and adjustments in the Hawks offense allowed Barea to beast out in the second half last night. Carlisle knew that Woody was too stubborn to move away from the JJ Iso offense so he didn’t have to worry about Barea on the defensive end. The obvious solution to Barea was to make him play defense. A steady diet of pick and rolls along with posting him up would’ve made him a defensive liability. We could’ve even run high screens with whoever he was guarding to take advantage of the switch and make Dallas double to give us open looks.

By Sautee

December 7, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

doc

heh

By Sautee

December 7, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

DecDawg

Surely you’re not suggesting that Woodson was out coached? heh heh

That’ll put you in kirk’s Hall of Shame for sure! ;-)

By DecDawg

December 7, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Sautee,

I’m just saying, it’s ridiculous to see Woody calling timeouts to stop a run as if he’s gonna make adjustments. And then, he doesn’t make strategic adjustments…he seems to only make substitutions to “better” execute the failing strategy.

By doc

December 7, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

no sautee, in his defense, kirk is not a woody apologist if i remember. he is happy with everything this organization does. it is good to be happy.

anyone else see 14 and 9 at the end of next week? to do it we cant let teams out play us significantly in 3rd quarters or it is a reprise of last year.

By hawkeye

December 7, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Some careers are stalling overseas

*Last summer when sev eral NBA players, in cluding a number of Americans, left the NBA for deals in Europe, there were a few sky-is-falling proclamations from some corners.

It’s still early in the season over in Europe, where the top teams split their time playing in the national leagues and the top-flight Euroleague. But so far not all of the Americans who were supposed to be starting an NBA-altering trend are becoming difference-makers in the Euro game.

One early exception is Cleveland native Earl Boykins, who didn’t find a satisfactory offer in the NBA and left for Virtus Bologna in Italy. Bologna struggled last season and doesn’t play in the Euroleague right now, so it made Boykins the highest-paid player in Italy with a deal that is worth roughly $3.5 million dollars for one year.

Boykins has responded by leading the team to six wins in its first eight games, averaging a team-best 18.4 points per game and shooting 50 percent from 3-point range. Last weekend his heroics led to a big road overtime victory against rival Roma.

Always a scorer, Boykins may indeed be on his way to getting a spot back in the NBA as he continues to prove he hasn’t lost a step.

But the 5-5 guard was not the player who convinced people there was a new load of reverse talent migration across the ocean. That distinction went to Josh Childress, who stunned many when he rejected the Atlanta Hawks and signed a three-year deal worth $20 million in Greece. Reports about his tax-free salary (which isn’t 100 percent accurate, Americans still must pay some taxes to Uncle Sam), paid expenses and celebrity status made it sound like he was going to kick-start a major trend.

However, Childress isn’t playing like the star many had expected. His Athens-based team, Olympiacos, is winning but Childress is third on the team in scoring at just over 10 points a game. He’s averaging less than one assist per game and his rebounding numbers are down from the NBA. The team’s coaches have praised him for his all-around game and said it will take time for him to learn the new style.

That is all true and comparing his stats to his Hawks’ numbers isn’t totally fair either, because the Euro games are slightly shorter. But more than one European scout and agent have said Childress has been a disappointment so far, no matter the spin being put on it.

Olympiacos is paying him to be a Euroleague star and so far there are no signs that it’s happening. As of right now, there’s already some speculation that Childress will exercise an option in his contract to come back to America next year. The Hawks, who still have his rights, would benefit from his ability off the bench. * —- hoopshype.com

should we expect childress to come back?

By terrell barron

December 7, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Were 4th in the East as of today.

By kwooden1

December 7, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Great come back and fight by the guys. I was as frustated as everyone else that we were down 20 and letting them drive for layups. I also hated that how we’re becoming a team that lives and dies by the 3. But overall the team is fighting every night and that is as much as we can ask for. Win by 3 and lose by 2 in back to back nights, if that isn’t an example of the long tough NBA season than what is!

Hopefully Horford can play tomorrow night, we definitely need him against Y Ming. This is definitely going to be a game that confuses Woodson, because logically he knows they’re going to have to push the pace, but at the same time he can’t emotionally stomach fastbreak turnovers. This should be an interesting game, but not a close game.

GO HAWKS!!

By ray

December 7, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Sautee,

That is an answer you already know. Great coaches challenge their star players. Will Woody do this? Don’t hold your breath, bro’. By the way, do you find it odd that the blogger’s critic was curiously absent for last night’s festivities? Heh heh.

Reese,

Good questions in your 1:46 a.m. post. Well, we will get to see some more answers as we complete the Texas triangle. More fun to come. Ready to have Horford back.

Hawkfan,

You’re dead on the money, man. The chemistry between Josh and Al was something we discussed back before the season began, and Sekou did an article on it, in fact. Both guys do indeed feed off of each other, though some people will still claim that Smith is a pimped out product of run and dunk. I think your assessment of how they work together not only completely debunks this brainless theory, but is about as accurate a description as there is of the relationship our two starting low post guys have. And as the games wear on, it will become apparent again. We just have to get them back together.

BA, LOL!

I was just thinking last night: Rick Carlisle is what you have if Jim Carey never smiled, laughed, or made another face again in his life. Too funny, dude.

By ray

December 7, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Y’all better stop pickin’ on Woody. Samuel will be mad as hell.

By Sautee

December 7, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

I know this is not Hawks content, but if Thomas Dimitroff is not executive of the year, somethings BAD wrong in the NFL.

By A Thinking Fan

December 7, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

I’ve been traveling out of the area, but I’m keeping up with the Hawks and they look good…

By kirkinga

December 7, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

doc, I’m not ashamed to be happy with the Hawks so far this season. You say “happy” as if there is no basis.After so many seasons of losing, how can any Atlanta Hawks fan not be happy at this point?You are what your records says you are.

(Your Escobar-Smith analogy fails because the Braves are not as talented as the Hawks so trading a young player of Escobar’s stature is far risker than had the Hawks traded Smith, there are also some structural differences like Horford could move to the 4 if the Hawks traded for a 5 whereas there is no current replacement for Escobar, there are are also payroll differences as well. But don’t get me started.)

If you look at my past comments then you know full well I am not a Woodson fan.I think the points about becoming a jump shooting team, overworking JJ, are quite valid to points to raise.

What I’m saying is that at 12-7 the man is doing something right. The Hawks looked in trouble earlier losing a streak of games and one of their young stars out. But the ship was righted and the Hawks began to win again before Smith returned.Some of it was rest, but how many times did we see the Hawks go into early season swoons that effectively killed their chances the rest of the season?

I question the focus on the negative when the team is winning. I get that many of the frequent posters believe themselves a better coach and/or GM than those of the Hawks.Forgive me if I remain skeptical.

I also get that many have purchased their tickets on the Told Ya So Express where they are already frequent passengers.I have little doubt that when the Hawks enter another rough patch, and they will, that the back of the bandwagon will empty once again.

As I said, I don’t follow the Ruling Rules here. I believe when the team, any team, is winning then the balance of the comments should be positive. The Hawks won 37 games in all of last season. They’ve won 12 already in just the first month. I believe it is close to pathological to be talking about firing the coach and trading the starting PG.

During the heat of this offseason’s discussions, there were certain voices who claim to agree with me on one point . I said that when all is said and done, the most important questions we’ll ask is are the Hawks an improved team and are they winning?

I guess I was the only one who really meant it.

Go Hawks!!

By hawkfan

December 7, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

thanks, ray just trying to put all the naysayer’s comments into perspective seeing that we lost for the first time when smith was on the court and horford out and lost our first game of the season when the opposite occurred

By Sautee

December 7, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

kirknga

Re:

I believe it is close to pathological to be talking about firing the coach and trading the starting PG.

Maybe I missed it, but who in the hel! on this blog said anything about firing Woody?

Questioning his methods, yes, I’ve seen that. Doubting his commitment to his bench? Yes, seen that too.

FIRING?

And for the Nth to the Nth degree time, talking about the possibility of a PG trade based on finances is not the same as wanting it to happen.

Looks like yet another straw man argument.

Those faceless “others” that you claim do this and that.

Yet when questioned, you never respond about them.

So who, pray tell, has said Woodson should be fired for what he’s done this season?

I’m willing to be shown. And give you a big apology, when you produce this post that wanted to fire him for his efforts this season. I just haven’t seen that particular gripe this year.

And this:

During the heat of this offseason’s discussions, there were certain voices who claim to agree with me on one point . I said that when all is said and done, the most important questions we’ll ask is are the Hawks an improved team and are they winning?

I guess I was the only one who really meant it.

No, but maybe you were the only one who thought that improvement and winning meant that you shouldn’t be critical of the team. It’s OK for you to feel that way. It really is.

I cannot help but temper my enthusiasm with what I see as obvious flaws. I’m still just as much a fan as you. And I expect that we both live and die with the fortunes of the season.

I’m a Hawks fan. Don’t try to put me in a box that says I must only be positive or else I love the Hawks less than another. That’s BS, and I think that you know it.

By cp

December 7, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

The third quarter last night reminded me of so many games last year. We would go to halftime with the lead and come out in the third quarter sleep. Woodson did not make any type of adjustments. We still managed to make a comeback even with a coach who has no type of imagination on defense or offense. The most disappointing part last night in the third quarter was that Dallas wasn’t even doing anything amazing. It was like the same play over and over again. Everyone knew Barea was going to drive but ol Woody couldn’t make any adjustments for it. He went to his Mike Knapp impersonation last night.

By ray

December 7, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

hawkfan,

There is a definite relevance there. We’re pretty damn good when both guys are healthy and ready to go. I enjoy watching them play together. And there really is no replacement for it. However, we need to find ways to overcome those times when one or the other is out. I think we need to find a way to develop the bigs on the bench in such a way that they can provide uplifting energy, defense, and even offense when called upon. Who knows what tandem is the best to use. But right now all we’re using is Solo and Zaza, and even they are being used in limited ways. I am interested in your thoughts on this.

Sautee,

I think anyone posting here is a fan of the Hawks. Everyone. Some people may not be able to focus on much besides the posts of those they hate, but they are still fans. I don’t understand anybody who talks about focus, when they can’t see that even the harshest critics of the franchise have posted numerous positive comments about the team, coaches, players, etc. You can’t see that if you are only focused on the things that people say that you don’t agree with. There are no “Ruling Rules” here. It’s sad actually, that someone would even see it that way.

Team improvement is a transcendant thing. It doesn’t just occur during the offseason. It happens throughout the season as well. And that is something we like to talk about here. Sadly, the only pathological thing is the intolerance of other people’s opinions and the need to criticize people for having opinions in a forum that encourages….opinions.

By Sautee

December 7, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Ray

Very well put.

I almost posted about No Ruling Rules (except for those who need to think there is).

By kirkinga

December 7, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

One would think that a self-styled “analyzer” who accuses others of using straw man arguments could then refrain from using one even when using an alias to attack, but I guess not.

The Ruling Rules(evident in the comments and behavior of some) call for the use of such distortion,gang attacking,feigned victimhood, and other distractions when an unsanctioned point has made from unapproved sources.The more valid the point, the more vociferous the response.

No where in any of my comments on any blog have I ever stated that anyone couldn’t criticize the team or organization. That is just plain silly.Distortion rules the day!

A losing team in the midst of an apparent renaissance should engender more positive comments than negative comments. It really is such a simple supposition but apparently dangerous one to some people such as those who talk to their aliases.

More praise and credit to go around when a team becomes a winner just like their was more blame and recrimination(except for certain players) when the team was a losing team. More positive comments in good times, more negative comments in bad times.

It really is that simple folks. Shouldn’t even be any contention about it, but judging from the response it threatens the sensibilities of some.

Oh well. So be it.

Go Hawks!!

By Sautee

December 7, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Some of us see a greater proportion of positive comments this year, and some of us don’t.

For some, I guess any negativity at all clouds their sky.

My sky is bigger than that, thank God.

By kirkinga

December 7, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

Some people have questionable analytical skills in my estimation.

There is a big difference between comparing the amount of positive comments made about a losing team and ones made about a winning team.

That there is increased positivity during good times is not a surprise(even for a notoriously negative bunch) and it’s not the point either.

For example,if someone were to read say the first the first 25 comments or so(not counting Sekou), one comes away with a mostly negative impression. Does mean that the blogger’s observations were wrong or that they shouldn’t make them, no it doesn’t.

And these are comments coming after a win. A. Win.!

Astounding! Where is the positive balance?

When I read the comments I’m left looking for fans who are fired up about the win. Fired up by the possibilities that winning brings? It happens on the other blogs when teams win, the comments are overwhelmingly(not universal, but unmistakably) positive, so why not here?

Have all such fans been driven away? Learned Misreableness indeed!

But this is illustrative of my point that the overall tenor and vibe for this improved and winning team is negative rather than positive.Not my sky or anyone else’s just reading the words as written.

Go Hawks!!

By Dr. De

December 7, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Folks, is it possible that ZaZa, Bibby and salary filler will be traded to Portland for LaFrentz, Przybilla, Rodriquez and Fernadez? Thoughts.

By Sautee

December 7, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Obessed!

By doc

December 7, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

kirk, your points are very well articulated. though i dont agree with all of them i can accept your position. thanks for the contrasting input, contrast is good.

By T

December 7, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Sekeu, does this quote from Josh Smith: “It’s unfortunate, because you know that an opportunity has slipped through your fingers and there’s really nothing you can do about it but move on and learn from the mistake.” mean that he will learn to not try and dribble the ball the length of the floor, allow the guards to bring the ball up the floor especially in a critical point of the game?

Or am I reading to much into the quote and it was just a cliche this player regurgitated?

By ray

December 7, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Sautee,

Did you know you are an alias? So my question is now this: Are you the 30-something black cop or the 50-something white musician? We’d better figure it out, because our wives are going to be confused as all get out. Maybe we should ask Doc. No perhaps not. Perhaps he too is an alias. The retired white surgeon, reduced to the figment of one of our imaginations. Well, I know this much. One of us has some good tickets to Hawks games and has shared them with our friend Lacsho. Perhaps he can solve the mystery. Talk about distortion. When someone has to resort to the silliness of saying that clearly different people (who happen to know each other a bit) are all one person (and aliases at that), then my point is only proven yet again. This person does not exist here to be a fan of the Hawks. He exists to discredit a blog and some of the more vocal members thereof. Simple as that. And if he chooses to use the vast majority of his time on this blog in order to achieve whatever it is he wants, then so be it.

What boggles the mind is his insistence that this blog is so bad, that it is ruled by an unseen force of blog bullies that decide what goes and what doesn’t. He says that other blogs behave normally, but this one does not. Why then does he remain? No, I’m not saying he should go, but I do question his insistence in sticking around with all of us horrible people (or perhaps it is just one horrible person with a massive multiple personality?).

Self-styled analyzer. Heh. Another form of a weak attack. How silly can you possibly sound, saying that you are skeptical of some people’s analytical skills on a freakin’ blog. There are only opinions here. Just say you don’t agree and be done with it. The fact is, do not all people analyze things? Do we not analyze finances, relationships, projects, situations? Does that then make us self-styled? Or is that just another form of name-calling? Oooops, did I let the cat out of the bag with that one?

The irony couldn’t get any thicker. A person scoffs openly at others for “analyzing” a sports team, but painstakingly analyzes the blog itself….

Yep.

By ray

December 7, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Doc,

You’re a saint.

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 7, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

“Folks, is it possible that ZaZa, Bibby and salary filler will be traded to Portland for LaFrentz, Przybilla, Rodriquez and Fernadez? Thoughts.”

Przybilla, Rodriguez and Fernandez are important members of their rotation. I’d think we’d be lucky to get two of them in a trade. With Oden’s injury risk, they would have to be pretty stupid to downgrade from Przybilla to Zaza (and that is a significant downgrade).

A more realistic package from Portland would involve Channing Frye and either Rodriguez or Jerryd Bayless, and I wouldn’t be opposed to that… although I still don’t see why the Hawks can’t just hang onto Bibby for the remainder of this season, let Bibby take us as far into the playoffs as he can, and let the DASG enjoy the sound of Bibby’s $14 million coming off the books at the end of the season.

By ray

December 7, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Najeh, I long ago conceded the point that Bibby could stay for the remainder of the season.

So, when all that money comes off the books, what then? I’m not being sarcastic, I’m just throwing the question out there. At the end of the season, we’re out of a starting veteran pg, which puts us right back at square one. Is Law any more ready to take over than he is now? No, not if he continues to play 11.5 minutes per game, which I believe is exactly how Woody will do it. So then what? Attempt to re-sign Bibby for millions less than he has earned this year? Or go after somebody else?

Yeah, I know. Thinking too far into the future. We have GMs for that…

By E. G.

December 7, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

TO “HAWKFAN AND RAY”

I’ve been watching “all” the Hawks games. We will not go to the next level until Josh Smith grows up mentally and learn to become fundamentally sound and stop making stupid decisions on the court. We will never compete with Boston and Cleveland until we learn to make good decisions consistently and finish in traffic around the basket. If the Hawks would start playing smart, their is not reason why we shouldn’t finish as the 2nd seed in the Eastern conference.

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 8, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

“So, when all that money comes off the books, what then?”

Haha… good question. Yeah, it probably still is too far into the future. I think a lot depends on whether or not Woody is willing to play and develop Acie. If he is, it makes the decision to let Bibby walk a lot easier.

Although who knows… we all thought re-signing Josh would take a lot more than 5 years/$58 million, and it turns out it didn’t. I realize he’s not a restricted free agent like Josh was, but maybe the market drives Bibby’s value down to a level at which we can afford to re-sign him. A lot of things can change between now and next summer.

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 8, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

“If the Hawks would start playing smart, their is not reason why we shouldn’t finish as the 2nd seed in the Eastern conference.”

Uh… I’d say LeBron James is a pretty good reason why we won’t finish 2nd in the East.

And Kevin Garnett is a good reason why we won’t finish first.

I like the Hawks’ talent as much as anyone, but let’s not go overboard. The best teams in the league are the best for a reason. We are getting there, but we ain’t quite at that level yet.

By Sautee

December 8, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

new blog up