Hawks

By This Gets Old

November 30, 2008 7:19 AM | Link to this

You know I know this isn’t going to be popular to post but some props do have to go to BK. I know that Rick made moves that have really put some polish on the Hawks but BK did stick with these guys and while they took their lumps (and are by no means favorites in the East) the present and future look a hell of a lot better now than just this time last year.

By ray

November 30, 2008 7:22 AM | Link to this

Am I the first person to post on this blog? Damn, sure looks like it. Well, considering that this site has been acting very funny since last night, I guess that should be no surprise.

Sekou,

You’re right. Bibby has by and large been a boon to this team on the offensive end. Despite popular and misinformed opinion, most of us are just not looking for him to be traded based on production. In fact, I had seriously cooled my stance on him being traded at all (though some people conveniently overlooked it)…until the somewhat recent articles on the Turner/McDavis suit. In those articles, the ever candid Rutherford Seydel was quoted saying that the ASG had done nothing but lose money since buying the team (and the hockey team).

Seydel later revealed that he had to scale back his contribution, and therefore his share in the ownership due to losses. Anybody can look these articles up on the AJC search engine.

I think a lot of people missed them, either from lack of interest, convenience, or otherwise. I found them to be rather disquieting.

And so, some of us began to get that sinking feeling again and wondering if there would be casualties to the Hawks roster. Bibby, making the most money this year, and having the attractive expiring contract, seemed like the most likely victim. But who knows. Maybe, just maybe a successful team wins out over financial complications. But I’m not quite willing to bet the farm on that, at least not yet.

After all, how many times have we seen teams cut loose pivotal/key players from their rosters, simply for the sake of needing to free up cash? How many people scratched their heads at the Denver Nuggets letting Camby go for a song? Clearly they were losing their best defender (in the post no less) and leading rebounder. Yet off he went. Why? Cash flow. And while it could be argued that they did this because they were planning an Iverson for Billups/McDyess swap, I don’t think so. The numbers suggest otherwise, and as expected, McDyess didn’t stick around once the 30 day moratorium ended. Cash saved….

At any rate, things have remained fairly quiet on the ownership/management front. I think they have learned from past mistakes and are now running a much more clandestine operation. Hence the late, and almost unheard rumor about trade possibilities with Portland. I mean, the GM shopping spree alone probably taught them to be careful who they talked to, when, and how to frame it up. After that followed the Two Joshes Debacle. No, they’re being much more quiet about things now.

One more time for those in the cheap seats (or in the front row of the short bus):

Bibby getting traded, if it does indeed happen, is not a desire. It is a fearful expectation based on consistent historical events within this franchise, and nothing more.

Perhaps we fear in vain. As fans, we want to win and we want to see our guys playing together. We don’t want to see them go elsewhere (witness the rightful outcry about Josh this past summer). But as fans, we aren’t bleeding large sums of cash, AS HAS BEEN STATED OPENLY BY AN ACTUAL MEMBER OF OWNERSHIP. We don’t see everything they see. All we can do is hope for the best, whatever that might be.

Perhaps Bibby stays all season, we enjoy reasonable good health (Josh is due back any minute now), and we go to the playoffs with a higher seeding than last year (that’s my wish anyway). Whatever the case, lets ride this mutha and hope the wheels don’t fall off!

By Clyde

November 30, 2008 7:25 AM | Link to this

Thank You Sekou for a update on the Hawks but all of yall got to give it up for the Crimson Tide of Alabama. Once again we finish the regular season undefeated. Much love to the Hawks but the SEC championship game next week is the hottest ticket in town.

Roll Tide!!!

Ok now the Hawks. I don’t care what no one says but Solomon Jones is our best option at center. Just like Sekou said he had the Wizards scared to put up a shot in the lane. They wasn’t scared of Horford though.

But this was a good win. The Hawks are still proving they can win games with thier 3 point shooting. I can’t remember a Hawks team that shot 3’s this well. But as the old saying goes you live by the three and you die by the three.

ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL TIDE ROLL!!!!

By ray

November 30, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

This Gets Old,

Hey! You beat me! Heh heh. BK did make good picks with Smith and Horford. And his best free agent acquisition by a long shot was Bibby. But like your name/handle, this conversation gets old. Sund has made good moves, too. The common denominator here has been ownership’s influence. In that has been in two ways, through acquisitions, be they via draft, trade, or free agency….and in coaching. Woodson was clearly Gearon’s guy. Don’t know why, but he was/is. Next question is whether or not Sund has the ability to be Woody’s boss or not. Hmmmm.

By ray

November 30, 2008 7:40 AM | Link to this

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/business/stories/2008/11/12/atlantaspiritlawsuit.html

By hawkeye

November 30, 2008 7:41 AM | Link to this

why trade your players if your having a great season. and we don’t even have josh in our line up and yet we’re still winning. i think doing the trade will ruin this team’s chemistry.

By ray

November 30, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this

Tried to post a link. Think I did it wrong. Ariose or Manny, would you please correct my pathetic attempt?

Clyde,

Congrats on the Tide. Those guys are very well coached and have played splendidly.

P.S., you’re still crazy. Solo is good, but he is NOT our best option at center. Not yet. And if being a shot-blocking threat makes somebody the best option at center, then Josh Smith should be our starting center, because he is our best shot-blocker. Does that make sense to you? Come on man, give up your Horford hate.

By ray

November 30, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this

Anyway, the article was written by Kristie Swartz, 11-12-2008 and is titled “Atlanta Hawks-Thrashers Lawsuit” Spirit Partner: ‘All we’ve done’ is lose money on teams.

By ray

November 30, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this

Hawkeye,

Your thinking mirror’s Sekou’s and that of most likely any Hawks fan. But entertain this thought: how committed are the owners to winning vs. continuing the gamble with their money? Will they ever make enough to make up for their losses? How long will that take? Already, one of them is scaling back his own stake….

It’s just a question. I think it’s a valid one. In the meantime, we can only enjoy what we have at the present.

By hawkeye

November 30, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this

hey, i noticed that al is averaging more assist than a typical big man. don’t you think that we can run a pick and roll offense thru him with bibby? al have good hands like webber/divac. i think building a chemistry between him and bibby will make them a good one-two punch like bibby/webber duo back in sacto. al is great passer while bibby is one of the best pick and roll user in the league. it will benefit them both. but i guess it won’t be possible with woody as our coach.:D

By chuckw/deadjournalist

November 30, 2008 7:58 AM | Link to this

Ray and Sekou -

Marc Stein also mention a Bibby to Portland deal - in passing - on ESPN yesterday as well.

Once this ownership mess is resolved - which is hopefully sooner than later - then who knows what will happen. Ando has been strong in his believe that Bibby will be trades for financial purposes since this summer. And at this point, I wouldn’t be shocked if it actually happened.

I still think the Blazers will try to get Conley from Memphis so I don’t see where Bibby would fit unless they completely turned over their roster.

By ray

November 30, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

Hawkeye,

That’s a great idea that would probably work. As you say, it does not seem indigenous to the “schemes” of our head coach. I’d be interested in anybody offering up a reason as to why, or even an explanation of just what our offensive “scheme” is supposed to be.

Chuckw/deadjournalis,

You’ve hit the nail on the head as far as the biggest issue where this team is concerned: the resolution of the ownership mess. Until then, no holds are barred, and possibly nothing is really nailed down or written in stone.

The initial message was to not be surprised if such a trade happened. However, it turned into personal agendas, then salary, statistics, team chemistry, etc became a part of the conversation. The usual sources that could not or just flat refused to understand the offered implications, and predictably tried to oversimplify things into the above-mentioned categories. Oh well.

Portland is indeed still rumored (as they were during the draft) to covet Conley. And of course, the idea is to reunite him with his old teammate, Oden. But you have to think Pritchard is a very realistic person, and might see this as a more fairy tale idea than a winning combo. Or, I could be dead wrong.

However, Bibby to Portland makes sense in a way. Just think, Brandon Roy has ball-handling and play style that is very similar to our own very talented Joe Johnson. Would Bibby not be in a very similar situation there as here? In other words, he could let Roy be the primary ball-handler when they are in the game together, much like he does with JJ now. Add in the fact that Portland would then have one of the veterans it is no doubt seeking…at pg no less. Remember, Portland is very young, and the addition of key veterans will help them get over the hump. That hump is the difference between making the playoffs and NOT making the playoffs in the West.

Consider also that Portland is well-coached and features more ball movement. Nate McMillan also has true centers in Oden and Pryzbilla. And he involves all of his people on both ends of the court. There is no stagnant offense and 2-man ISO game going on up there. Bibby would be well-suited to that team, even as he is well-suited to ours. They are good without him. What would they be with him? Better. Portland is 11-6 without Bibby. If you believe that he makes us better (and he does), then you have to believe that he does the same for Portland. Especially in their offensive scheme. Defensively, they have all it takes to make up for any deficiencies. They’ve proven that.

Again, this is not an endorsement of a trade idea that may have never existed (though I am inclined to believe that it did).

By DAP01

November 30, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Why play a worn out Joe Johnson so many minutes? Why not play ZaZa a few minutes?

We sure seem to be better making that extra pass (like Marvin passing to Al) than simply waiting for an iso from Joe.

I would only trade Bibby if it clearly set us up to have a more balanced roster in for many years.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

November 30, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

ray -

something else that needs to be discussed, if we are talking about a payroll cut, is the pending free agency of marvin williams. if the team is in a world of financial hurt, i don’t think it would be too unrealistic to assume that since the team just paid josh smith, will undoubtedly resign al horford in two years and should re-up joe johnson might not want to be on the hook for five more years of williams.

might a potential deal with portland also include williams?

portland’s youth and depth could prove to be attractive to atlanta. flipping the expiring contracts of williams and bibby for steve blake and the expiring contract(s) of raef lafrentz ( and maybe frye) and/or a couple of under-control youngster (martell webster/travis outlaw/jerryd bayless/rudy fernandez) might provide prove to be worthwhile for atlanta and portland.

atlanta would still shed salary next year (with lafrentz, if he wasn’t flipped again at the deadline) and only having blake, whose salary is affordable, through next season with they would have to re-sign johnson. adding a couple of younger players who are already signed, would allow them to focus this off-season on something other than whether or not to re-sign williams.

portland - because it takes two to tango - would have bibby this season before shedding his salary. they would also unload themselves of enough future dollars to re-sign williams if they found his outside shooting to be a complement to roy, aldridge and oden.

it’s a lot of speculation for a sunday morning but given the the ownership situation that we’ve all been discussing on here for the last couple of years it might be a possibility.

By Peter Griffin

November 30, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Holy frickin’ crap! I have the perfect trade scenario with Portland.. They need a point guard and we could use a big man, so we trade Speedy Claxton for Greg Oden and Pryzbilla! If they balk, we can throw in the rights to Jon Koncak too. I’m willing to ‘give to get’.

By Samuel

November 30, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Ando,

I see you’re still living in the COULDA,WOULDA,SHOULDA, I recommended Drafting Cris Paul dreamland. You and umpteen others.

By HB Ando

November 30, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

Sam, as far as the Hawks having a better point guard, for a better price, I would suggest Chris Paul, at $4.5 million, who your cousin, Sekou Smith, has documented, on this very blog, that I steadfastly demanded the Hawks, and Billy Knight, should take, prior to the selection of Marvin Williams. Me, myself, I’d also take Calderon, for $7.5 million, as I recommended to Bruce Levenson, in an ongoing e-mail exchange, back in December of ‘05, well before he cost what is now only half of what the Hawks are paying Bibby.

I’d highlight Deron Williams, as a pretty obvious alternative, for less than a third of the price of Bibby, and another player that Billy could have had instead of Marvin, but I don’t want to be disingenuous and pretend I called for Williams in the same way I adamantly hoped for Paul. But you did ask me to name a PG with Bibby’s ability (you actually said scoring, but if I limited my response to something so basic, I’d have to include Roger Mason’s performance, so far, subbing for Parker in SA, as he is also averaging just over 15 points, like Bibby), who doesn’t cost as much.

Throw in Crawford, Terry, Rose, Billups, Mo Williams, Baron Davis, Nate Robinson, TJ Ford, Nelson, Sessions, Andre Miller, Felton, Devin Harris, Tony Parker, and even DJ Augustin, who ALL score more than, or within a couple of average PPG, for LESS money than Bibby.

In fact, that statement, requesting the notation of a PG who scores more than Bibby, for the same money, might be the most ignorant point ever made on this blog. Other than Marbury and Stevie Franchise, there are no more overpaid PG’s in the NBA.

Period.

Im talking about the hear and now. Who are we gonna get that brings what Bibby is bringing RIGHT NOW.

I missed the game but I figured we’d win. We’re a legit contender right now. We’re beating who we are supposed to beat.

Another great move by Woody to give Josh another day off. I say sit him all this week and bring him back in Dallas against Dirk and Co.

By Tiger Woo

November 30, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Forget all of the freakin’ trade talk! We are 10-6 with 2 very winnable home games coming up vs. Memphis and NY - we get Josh Smith back for the Memphis game -Bibby is playing excellent ball right now - why break up the chemistry the Hawks have established at this point?

Unless a piece becomes available that can be acquired without breaking up the core players, give the current team a chance to see how far they can go this year.

By Astro Joe

November 30, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

10-6!. .500 play away from home. 10 road games. .500 play without Josh Smith. Missed games by Zaza and Horford. JJ playing on a bad foot. And incorporating Flip, Evans and Solo into the playing rotation.

Congrats on a terrific start of the season.

Question… does any player thus far fall under the “early disappointment” category? I don’t think so. But I’m drunk on the hopeandexcitement elixir.

By kirkinga

November 30, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

First, it was a good win last night.

Second, why do certain self-styled “analyzers” always talk about trading Bibby? One would thik that after the 10th, or maybe the 25th time, they would feel that they had made their point.

But it is the repetition, and timing that gives away their hate for Bibby.At some point it becomes pushing the trade of a key asset during a mostly successful young season.Why the need to do this?

It’s not because of “monetary concerns”, because we all got that point the the first time it was made months ago. No I’m afraid the concern is really just hate.Plain and simple. When you constantly hype trading a player you should not be surprised when people become convinced of your favor for such a deal. Particularly when such behavior is in contrast to the way other players are pimped by the same preening bandwagon jumping sources.

Let’s enjoy the success of our team. Talking trades of players(for the 100th time) and another round of casting suspicion upon ASG(for the 10 millionth time) is so tired an uncalled for at this point.

Go Hawks!!

By Wink from Lithonia

November 30, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Why all the trade talk on moving Bibby. We should be extremely thankful that Bibby is in this team right now, he is flat out ballin. If we did not have Bibby, I think we would be talking about what has happen to Joe Johnson. He has had some very slow start, sure the toe is borrowing him, but he suited up, so no excuses. If not for Bibby, Joe’s assist would not be up, as of right now Joe is deferring to Bibby during the game and William’s pocket 3 ball at crunch time. Joe is unable to take over a game, at least in the last 4-5 games. Bibby has been key to getting us throught this injury period with Josh Smith out.

My hope is a by product of Josh being out, is that he realizes we do not need his 3 point shot when he does return. We are leading the league in 3’s without him.

I think we should roll with this team, see where we are at the end of December. I believe we should have made an attempt at Zach Randolph to add low post scoring if we were in the trade market. If we could add a guy like Gunderic from the Bucks, that would help our team, a flat out energy guy at the 5, with a little scoring potential and nasty attitude.

By Tiger Woo

November 30, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

One clear sign the Hawks are improved this year? The Hawks success on the road so far.

Last year, they were 12-29 on the road. This year, they are 5-5. To be a true contender, you must win your share on the road and win big at home.

Will they continue their success on the road? It will be tough, but with their improved bench play, I am confident they will.

By terrell barron

November 30, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

I sait it before the season. Evans should start.

By terrell barron

November 30, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

We should go with Bibby, JJ, Evans, Smoove, Horford. Small lineup but very effective. We should bring Marvin off the bench, since everyone seems to think that he’s the odd man out. Well not part of the core 3. We’d have one of the deepest benches in the league. Acie, Flip, Marvin, Solo, Zaza,. Thats a pretty good team, much less a 2nd team. I would never play Acie with Flip though. lol!! Btw, Imagine Smoove and Solo on the court together. Solo was blocking everything in sight last night, and we all know what Josh can do. Scary!

By doc

November 30, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

i see bloggers blogging about bloggers is back to de rigeuer today. i guess they cant see the mirror of self-styled “analyzers” in themselves to comment otherwise as 90% of their comment are just that, self-styled “analyzers” but not about the hawks and it is for their umpteenth time as well.

go figure.

me, i like bibby and am glad our ownership is willing to pay him the money. on the other hand i will not be surprised nor upset if bibby is gone if there is a solution that makes this team better and maybe spares them a dime. again, we need some depth down low as it is obvious that wody doesnt want to play zaza for credible minutes or situations even when over manned like in toronto. i guess it is just like the braves need a solid starter and if that means giving quality for quality in a replaceable shortstop to reach the next level then fine pull the trigger. otherwise i keep bibby and enjoy his game which is primarily as a sniper from long range, the occasional drive to the bucket and the defense that consists of trying to deflect passes. just dont say that is hating, puhleese.

By Sautee

November 30, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

kirknga

From the American Heritage Dictionary of the English language:

hate: 1. a) To feel hostility or animosity towards. b) to detest.

Your credibility just keeps on going down the tubes.

I want you to show me a post from this blog that shows hostility or animosity (do you need the dictionary explanation of those words?) toward Bibby. Or anyone “detesting him”.

There’s a difference between discussing his possible trade or his shortcomings (which to my eyes has been balanced, if not overwhelmed by positive comments) and “hate”.

When you learn that difference, perhaps you’ll understand that NO ONE on this blog “hates” Mike Bibby.

Indeed, several of us are long time Bibby fans, who are dismayed at his “loss of a step”, but still admire his fearlessness and savvy, and think he’s making a respectable contribution to this season.

You said this: But it is the repetition, and timing that gives away their hate for Bibby.At some point it becomes pushing the trade of a key asset during a mostly successful young season. Why the need to do this?

And how in the world does discussing a potential trade suddenly become “pushing the trade”? As if Sund is going to make a trade based on the opinion of bloggers?

That’s total nonsense. And you talked about “illogic”??????

Bring something better and more real.

But keep trying, Kirk. That’s what this blog is for.

By terrell barron

November 30, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

At Dallas, at Houston, at San Antonio, at Miami, vs. Cleveland, vs. Charlotte(who gives us fits, vs. Boston. We MUST win against Memphis and NY. If we dont, it could get ugly in a hurry. I still think BK made this year’s schedule. lol!!

By mykhalc

November 30, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

Sautee, i agree that there’s been NO HATE toward BIBBY but there have been enough people here that screamed BIBBY was/is not worth the salary he’s now makin’!!!

personally, and i’ve said this before, BIBBY has EARNED his salary and continues to earn it. the cat is one of the few players on the team that really knows what it takes to be on a playoff team year-in, year-out. but beyond that the cat can flat out play and there is NO ONE on this team ‘ready’ to take his place. FLIP ‘might’ be the closest right now but he does not run a team like BIBBY does.

bottom line, BIBBY makes this team better and SUND would be crazy IMHO to mess with the chemistry of this team.

we lose, we b$tch. we win, we b$tch. (and that comment is not directed at anyone in particular) but i’m enjoyin’ watchin’ this team grow right now. and personally i want to enjoy it as long as i can!!!!

just say NO to a BIBBY trade!!!!LOL

By terrell barron

November 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Anyone know what Portland was willing to give up for Bibby? Just Curious?

By Gypsyjoe

November 30, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

I agree with mykhalc no way you mess with the point guard of a team that is just comming together. We have waited frigin years for this team to make some noise. We can not move Bibby now with out hurting the team. Also I am from cali so I think we need his ice cold sniper touch.

By igotxx3

November 30, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

is it just me or does flip turn the ball over every time he attemps to drive the ball???

By mykhalc

November 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

with the ‘smarts’ that the POR front office has used to build their team i have NO DOUBT that we would get the short end of ‘any’ trade with them. they have proven they are in a different league. SUND should stay away from POR. he’ll discover he came back with nubs!!!LOL

By mraejae

November 30, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

The Hawks look good w/o J Smoove; I can’t wait to see them play when he comes back! I really hope Bibby doesn’t get traded..we need him..plus he plays well with the team and he’s one of the best players on the team. Go Solo!

By mykhalc

November 30, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

i didn’t get to see the game last nite. SOLO had 5 blks last nite???!!! DAMN!!! why the DNP for ZAZA???

By Astro Joe

November 30, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Black Myk (well, that was where you were headed along with many of us last year)… Zaza re-injured his shoulder in the Raptors game. Dude had 17 boards in the 3rd quarter against Bosh and didn’t play anymore of that game nor the one yesterday. At least, I assume that is the issue, I DVRed the Raptors game and missed the first 3-4 minutes of last night’s game.

Since I have been accuesed of “piling on” in the past, I’ll sit out the Bibby debate. But it’s kind of funny that there are rumors that the role model for rebuilding (Portland) wants a crack at the same PG who has stabilized a SE team that some folk think is not worth his salary. I’m sure if they genius in Portland made that trade, he would be lauded for delivering an experienced PG to get that team back in the playoffs.

By mykhalc

November 30, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

JOE, a BIBBY trade would bring back BlackMyk in full force, no doubt brah!!!LOL

thanks for the ZAZA report. yeah, i saw the TOR game where he went crazy on the boards. you know, i was kinda pi$$ed that they did not give ZAZA more touches in that game. for that one game, he earned it IMHO. dude was goin’ crazy on the glass!!!

and good point on BIBBY too. man, can you imagine him at POR??? under NATE??? the thought depresses me (and pi$$es off BlackMyk)!!!LOL

By ray

November 30, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

chuckw/deadjournalist,

Wht you say actually makes a lot of sense, and some of it had not occurred to me. The possibilities abound. I hope that such talk, as realistic and off-hand as it may be, does not engender the same misunderstandings and attempted attacks that talks of Bibby have. But I think I’m asking too much there…Still, this remains something to consider for the fan that thinks beyond the present. Such things are what GMs have to consider all the time, or they fall behind the game. Good points you brought up….

Doc,

Did I not just say on the last blog (or the one before) that at least 80% of the contributions from that one lonely little corner were for the sole purpose of critiquing and attempting to tear down other bloggers? It’s an obsession, I swear. To dig up a slightly old bone from the summer, I find it very curious that the same source that claimed we could win and be a great team “with or without Josh Smith” is so adamantly against the idea or possibility of continuing on without a player that has yet to spend a full season here. While he’s at it, why does he not accuse Sekou, Woody, the Hawks players, and half the journalists and experts in the NBA business of “pimping” Josh Smith? But no, he goes after a couple of bloggers. So bold and brave. Almost too funny for words. Also funny is the all too convenient dismissal of all the praise we’ve given Bibby for his shooting prowess. Oh well, living under a rock does very little for one’s vision, I suppose.

In the meantime, I’m glad we’re playing as well as we are. And I’m glad Bibby is getting his game on. I like winning. Feels good.

Sautee,

Notice that the cut and paste has gone for the most part. Why? Too much evidence that is inconvenient to the plan of attack. That 11:00 a.m. post is so full of lies that it’s tiresome to even try to address each one. I see you wisely decided to only address a few of them. I recall this guy saying he was about winning and talking basketball, and not drama. I can’t think of a single post from him in weeks, if not months that does not contradict those statements (which I’m sure he’d love for us to forget). And this after I left him alone to stew in his own rancid pool. Oh well. I suppose some of us will be blamed when somebody gets traded. Wow. I don’t even think illogical is a word that fits this kind of dementia, LOL! Ah well, the obsession will continue I suppose…entertainment comes in many forms, does it not?

MYKHALC!

Good to see you still livin’ bro’!

Look man, Bibby is on it big time right now, and any Hawks fan appreciates that. I’d rather leave the salary talk alone for the most part. While it may make for good debate, too many people make it personal so quickly, and some just want to use it as a vehicle for their own personal agendas. Having said that, there are other complications. Bibby is the highest paid guy on the team, I believe (at least this year). Higher than Joe. Is he more important than Joe? Is he earning it more than Joe is? Statistics would say “no”, but stats don’t tell the whole story. And besides, as MannyT said, comparing salary to performance is often unfair, especially considering that the money he’s making now is from a contract he was signed to for heroic performances in the past. Is he worth more to this team than the 4 guys he was traded for? Oh yes, I absolutely agree to that. Take the conversation in other directions and people start fighting…

I’ve never advocated trading a key element when things seem to be going right. However, I don’t make the decisions, I can’t see as far ahead as management is paid to, and that’s the way things go sometimes. The Knicks were looking pretty decent when Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph were shipped out. And those two guys were major contributors to the team. I’ll bet some NY fans are livid about this. But they won’t be in 2010 if they win the Lebron Sweepstakes, will they? Planning for the future. It rarely satisfies people in the present.

By Tiger Woo

November 30, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

According to the announcers last night, Zaza did not play because Woody didn’t like the matchup of Zaza vs. Washington - no injury was mentioned.

Official stat: DNP - Coach’s decision.

By ray

November 30, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe,

I wouldn’t call Pritchard a genius, but tell me this: has he looked like a bad or good GM to you? Just curious, really. I have to say, he would be lauded for bringing an experienced pg to his team (and subsequently back into the playoffs)if he made such a move. Was not Billy Knight lauded for the EXACT same thing? Thing is, I think that team will make the western conference playoffs without such an added piece, judging by the way they are playing right now. And while I know you might just be a tad sarcastic in your reference to Portland being the role model for rebuilding, would you openly deny that they’ve done a hell of a job with it, Oden’s injury and all? I mean, for someone who has openly advocated organic growth, surely you can appreciate what they’ve managed to accomplish up there, even if you’re not a fan (and neither am I, though I don’t HATE them).

But with all the young guys they have, don’t you think the next sensible move is for him to bring in veterans at key positions, or just rely on organic growth? Again, just curious. And I’m not suggesting that Pritchard concentrate on anybody from our team, I’m just saying.

As for the salary comments…again, that’s not a good discussion to get into around here. Some folks are taking the disagreements personal.

By ray

November 30, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc,

I know you’re boycotting because of Woody, but we miss ya man…

By kgbsfinst

November 30, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

I really hope we don’t trade Bibby away anytime soon. I have said for awhile, if we are winning and playoff bound there’s no way you trade away a part of the puzzle. I think when it gets closer to the trade deadline, then maybe reevaluate the situation, but not this early when the team (and Bibby) looks good. Having said that, the thing about trading with Portland is they do have a lot of good pieces on that team, it would take a major moron to not get something good in return.

By Astro Joe

November 30, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Ray, Portland has done a good job with far more resources than we have. (How many 1st round picks did they purchase in the past few years? They dumped Z-Bo which was addition by subtraction because their owner was willing to eat Stevie Francis’ contract). But ultimately, teams compete for a title and the ticket to that final is the playoffs. Portland has a comparable problem that the Hawks had pre-Bibby. They are simply too young and therefore, too inconsistent in crunch time situations. Bibby would bring them exactly what he brings us, an experienced PG who instills confidence in his teammates, especially in late game situations. A guy who remains calm because he’s “been there and done that”. Every reason why Portland wants him are the same exact reasons why we should keep him.

By Blast

November 30, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Bibby talk has been going on since the summer and I see it’s not gonna die. Mostly because of his salary/value. As has been pointed out already, Bibby signed that big time contract when he was playing at his peak with another team. And as I said earlier, he won’t make that kind of money next season, even though he is balling out of his mind right now. I believe we would be nuts to get rid of Bibby at this time. That just will not make smart basketball or financial sense.

Why?

Despite Bibby’s big contract, Joe’s big contract, Smoove’s big contract, the Hawks are under the cap. Then they have something every other team covets. A huge expiring contract. Why give that cap relief to another team when the Hawks are playing so well and Bibby is one of the reasons why? If the Hawks finish well this season, they would be crazy not to resign Bibby to a more modest contract. Bibby is at the wind down of his career, but he is still one of the best point guards out there, something the Hawks have needed for years. Acie is not ready yet, and Flip is too unreliable

Another reason they need to keep that cap space is they have key players of their own that needs to be resigned or decided on. Marvin is coming up soon, Zaza is in a contract year, Joe is up in two years…

I love Mike Bibby. the Hawks fans adore him. I say we keep Bibby.

Another reason Zaza did not play last night was I believe Woodson wanted to play small and match up better with the Wizards. Seemed to work. Mo went crazy. If you missed last night’s game, I can only say you missed a thriller. The Hawks were perfect in the 1st half. The passing from side to side to find the open man was a beaut, and everything they threw up went in. Bibby was sensational, hitting shots, taking charges, beautiful assists, and stealing the ball. Now, the Hawks won that game only because they got a big jump on the Wizards in the 1st quarter. The Wizards won every other quarter by bare margins, but the Horford came up with the game winning play. Trust the Hawks to make this a nail bitter, when it should have been a blowout.

Folks, this is a basketball blog, where we come to express our views and opinions about our team and the league. It is a sad thing when bloggers use this venue for personal attacks. Can’t we all just get along? Remember, we are in the season of CHANGE we can believe in. YES WE CAN Make this country a better place. YES WE HAVE a team we can believe in.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

By mykhalc

November 30, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, thanks brah. you know i’m droppin’ in keepin’ up with you cats!!!

on the salary thing with BIBBY, you said it best…especially considering that the money he’s making now is from a contract he was signed to for heroic performances in the past. sums up how and why he’s earned his cash IMHO.

bottom line for me, it wanna see ‘this’ team, as-is, have a chance to show how well they can compete. and i like what i’m seein’!!! can’t even hate on WOODSON…too much!!!LOL

By ray

November 30, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe,

Exactly. What you say makes a load of sense, and nobody can ignore or debunk one huge difference between us and Portland (and other teams): very good financial resources. Not all teams have this. We’re one of the have-nots, at least for the time being. Yet still, we are a good team, which is pleasing. Unfortunately (or fortunately, as we squabble as much or more than the owners) we do not hold the reigns to this sleigh. Who knows what the future holds. Right now, I’ll be happy for a Josh Smith return and a pile of wins in the upcoming games, ya know?

Mykhalc, you know you’re one of the crew. And I think we’re all enjoying this winning season. The team is just flat out better than in previous years. You not hating on Woody? Damn!

Doc,

See if you can figure this one out: why would a person need or even try to cast suspicion on Hawks ownership when you have one of the actual owners (within the first few lines of the article, no less) willing to blab it all over the place? Mind-boggling. I guess the owner was lying, and the press is printing libel. Heh! Yeah, that must be it….

By mykhalc

November 30, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

one last thing on the BIBBY trade talk. you DO NOT give up somethin’ to then have to go out and ‘try’ to replace it. you replace it when you ‘know’ you have that player ‘ready and available’. look to TOR as the example in their PG situation durin’ the summer.

and just like JJ spoke up for WOODSON at the end of last season, you better know he’d go ballistic if BIBBY was trade!!! just sayin’!!!

By doc

November 30, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

hey myk, how bout them other birds or are you into the niners? heh heh

By mykhalc

November 30, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, the WOODSON hate is just dialed back a bit!!! but it’s alive, and well, and forward movin’!!!LOL

By mykhalc

November 30, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

DOC, what’s shakin’ man??? FALCONS fan all the way brah!! nada on the NINERS and RAIDERS!! luv some OAKTOWN cheerleaders tho!!!LOL

By HB Ando

November 30, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

Sam, you must have been dropped on your head as a kid. Did you really cut-and-paste my post, in which I name about ten PG’s who are producing roughly the same type of numbers (some better, some the same, some in the neighborhood), for far less money that Bibby makes, and then ask me again WHO could do what Bibby is doing for the Hawks for the same money?

The most simple analogy (since your response begs for simplicity) is if you had asked me how much 2 plus 2 is, re-printed that my answer was 4, and then said, “yeah, Ando, but how much is 2 plus 2?”.

Between your obliviousness, and Kirk’s continued inability to understand that predicting the Hawks will trade Bibby IS NOT, in any way, related to hating on Bibby, or calling for him to be traded, I don’t know which of you is more confused.

Kirk, if you’d quit misrepresenting folks’ positions on Bibby, and the implications his salary have on the operations of the ASG, no one, including me, would be forced to repeat previously articulated opinions on the subject. But what, short of ignoring your nonsensical posts, should a logical person do but feel the need to correct your repeatedly dishonest representations?

As Sautee said, your credibility is lessened with every repeated inaccurate post on the subject. Who are you pandering to, and what do you hope to gain by lying about the opinions of other bloggers, when their honest positions are well-documented throughout previous blogs?

You’re like a little kid who believes that if he says the same lie, over and over again, it will suddenly become true. You should consider politics……..

By HB Ando

November 30, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

If the Hawks were going to trade Bibby to the Blazers, and finances were a dictating factor, along with a desire to replace his production with another, younger, guard, then trading him for Sergio and the expiring, and likely to be covered by insurance, contract of LaFrentz, would cover both the money and the on-court product. Of course that’s as speculative as any other idea one could conjure up.

The number one issue, right now, is getting Josh back on the court, at 100%, to determine whether the Hawks can recapture the level of intensity and play they exhibited during the first 7 games, prior to his injury.

I just really want to see which Hawks are the real version, that we can expect to follow for the coming months. I’d have to believe they should recover some of the intensity and defensive prowess they showed prior to his injury. If not, the East is flush with teams scrapping around the .500 mark, taking turns beating each other from night to night.

By doc

November 30, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

myk, glad to see you appearing occasionally just to say you still on board. honest abe is MIA. keep in touch, maybe you can lead the bibby love team. bibby has been fun to watch as he guns it. look forward to sitting in my seats this week for some more of the same as we take two from the knicks and griz. i am really looking forward to both of those games to see some of the young guns of the latter and the coach of the former to see what surprise he brings.

By ray

November 30, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

Falcons just beat the Chargers a little while ago. Life is gooooooood….

By Astro Joe

November 30, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

myk, what’s the old line? LA face with the Oaktown booty? Geez, I’m old.

Good win for the Falcons.

Ando, that’s what I was thinking… Sergio & LaFrentz. But if the ASG did that, then they would need to go ahead and trade JJ in the summer. Because if the ASG is too broke to maintain their investment, build on the momentum from the playoffs AND the early season success of the first month, then they should concede that JJ won’t re-sign in 2010 and they need to plan to be the Florida Marlins of the NBA. Taking Bibby from JJ (and replacing him with a neophyte) would launch a slide unseen since the infamous Steve Smith for Ryder debacle (also involving the Blazers).

By Anthony

November 30, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Question: What is up with Joe? Is he tiring already? Do we have a problem with our all-star we don’t know about? He has not been the same guy I know of the past couple of games.Why?

By doc

November 30, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

funny sergio had a hero’s welcome when he got off the plane in portland this year. guess he has some game.

hate to say it but follow the money is still the mantra to remember. the hawks know how much cash flow they have, how much money in the bank with season tix recorded and how much a playoff can bring in. sad to say but if it is a negative return with bibby and a positive to get insurance money for lafrentz i couldnt complain if they bring in some talent. they have to know now what the rest of the league looks like and that maybe they can gamble a bit to move bibby and still have a chance to get into the playoffs.

what are the reports on sergio, ando?

By mykhalc

November 30, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

JOE, all 3 points in your post are all dead-on!!!!LOL

DOC, to me, now is NOT the time for the HAWKS to gamble!!! now is the time for ‘establishing’ a trend. they built the foundation last year (luckily gettin’ into the playoffs then had a good showin’). they moved it forward with re-signin’ of SMOOVE and the signings of MO and FLIP. let’s get some ‘real’ momentum here before we go doin’ what HAWKS mgmt usually does…F the whole thing up ‘cause somebody thought they knew what they were doin’!!!

karma has shifted since the signin’ of EL GATO GRANDE!!! nothin’ but positives ‘overall’ since that day. let’s put the roster sheet down and step away!!!LOL

By Melvin

November 30, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Written by Marc Stein from ESPN on 11/28

Mike Bibby (Atlanta Hawks) Expiring Salary: $14,983,603 Soon to be traded? UNLIKELY Bibby is a good fit with the Hawks fiscally and on the floor, as an accomplished shooter who plays well off star guard Joe Johnson … without taxing Atlanta’s well-documented financial restrictions. It remains to be seen whether the Hawks will defy the skeptics and try to re-sign Bibby at season’s end, but things have gone so well since Bibby arrived — with Atlanta halting its long playoff drought and taking Boston to seven games in the first round, then starting well this season in spite of multiple injuries — that you’d expect them to knock back any trade interest. One scenario floated this week suggested that Portland is putting Bibby proposals together.

By doc

November 30, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

myk, astro rule is always in play. if they need to stay solvent so be it, otherwise enjoy the ride that bibby provides.

By mykhalc

November 30, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

DOC, true. i guess we’ll see what FEB ‘09 brings on a couple of fronts.

By kirkinga

November 30, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

I think some of our senior citizens(specifically those who deploy multiple aliases) don’t understand that the word “hate” has a colloquial definition as well as a literal one. So someone can be suspected a Bibby hater when bringing up a trade, every day, on every blog, during a time when the team is winning, with no suitable back up to take his place.

In other words, it is the timing and frequency of the trade-Bibby discussion that raises legitimate questions for those who delight in the possibility.

Did any one who followed the NBA not know Bibby wasn’t a stellar defender? Was his salary not known at the time of his arrival? Yet some insist on reminding us of these points every day, on every blog.

Whether you call it “predicting”, or “analyzing”, the raising of these points is no longer newsworthy to some.

It is unfortunate that some take it personally that others would dare see this bizarre discussion taking place and conclude there is an agenda behind the whole thing.

The trade-Bibby Brigade wants the deal to go down so they can brag about their prescience. Does any one doubt that there a few certain Bibby haters just itching to tell as all “told ya so” should he come to be traded in the future?

And as far as credibility goes, any one finding any merit at this point in a Bibby for Blake and LaFrentz lacks credibility in the first place.

Why the urgency of breaking up the team right now? Why is there a problem with those of us who want to emphasize what has gone right so far this season? Is trading Bibby really more discussion worthy than the Hawks having a plausible shot at a seed (4th? 5th?) higher than many of us thought?

I imagine finding the positive so far would be too much Happy Talk for some. There is always blame to placed, a search for the guilty to be conducted, finding fault more pleasing. To each his own I guess.

Go Hawks!!

By RA

November 30, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Trade or no trade, this team needs to learn how to step on another team’s throat and not let up until the wiggling stops.

By Ariose

November 30, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Smoove coming back= yayfulness

Ray, Is this wat you were referring to?

Bibby for Sergio and pryzbilla? Bayless? Nah not enough cash to make it happen…..wait how much does Prybilla make? Anyway, we’re playing good basketball right now…….I actually wasn’t that upset with the Toronto loss(although, I AM reflecting hehehe….)

Anyhoo, back to my mountain of Essays/Book reports….

~Sir Links A Lot~

By cp

November 30, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

The rumored trade between Portland and Memphis is a head scratcher. The only reason I could see as to why Portland would want Conley is to make Oden happy. At this point Lowry is a better pg than Conley. Conley looks nothing like the player I thought he would be. Every pg on the Blazers roster is a better player than Conley. So trading for him must be to make Oden happy. I think Outlaw would go to Memphis in that deal. Outlaw wants to start but he wont start over Gay. He still would fit on that young team though. I dont know why Portland would make that move. Have they given up on the kid Bayless?. I think I read where Sergio wanted to be traded. I guess you never know when it comes to the NBA.

By Ariose

November 30, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

A few more tidbits……

1) Go Falcons!!!!!

2)I know it’s almost time for the next one, but if you didn’t catch this past weeks Basketblog Podcast With Micah Heart and Sekou Here it is….

3) Ray, shake off that link rust lol.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

November 30, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

……Ray, I think the article you’re reffering to got canned cause I can’t find it anywhere lol(I had read it went it was first posted). Maybe Turner doesn’t want the financial losses out in the open like that (Conspiracy Thoery Time!!!!!!) lol.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By doc

November 30, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

nice points kirk about a rationale for not trading bibby. i imagine you are just as eager to say i told you so as well in the end, no? problem to your assessment of an ulterior motive of a blogger regarding the possibility of a trade is that it was brought up by a national writer not a blogger and reported here by one of our bloggers. it was even mentioned by our fearless leader sekou though he loudly denounced it for its lack of benefit to the team just as you have. what he didnt do is question the integrity of the comment nor timing by the individuals blogging. somehow you seem to want to look for a deeper devious meaning or ulterior motive like “hatin on bibby” or someone only interested in wanting to be right rather than just going along for the discussion.

enjoy the rose colored glasses, for the most part i do as well. since you have commented on the precarious financials of this team in the past, are aware of it and have a solid business mind i am sure you, like i, even with the rose colored glasses on might be able to see how somehow if the deal is right without obviously sacrificing some of the success our owners and gm would jump at the chance. is the kid in question is better than acie? might be, and he is seasoned as an international player and probably clears up even more cap space next year and for years to come? geez that sounds good to me as a gm and puts my mind at ease for dealing with salary issues, player acquisition next summer all the while strengthening my team for the long term. anyway portland seems to have deeper pockets lined with microsoft dollars. if the deal comes to pass i am sure your own rational brain would agree with their decision as well, no?

anything more about zaza and his mysterious injury? in the past i have seen him show pain and he had given no suggestion of the injury during the raptors game. i wondered if that was the underlying reason he didnt make it back on the court in the loss to the raptors. that certainly didnt explain why if he wasnt on the court why solo wasnt brought back out there to help police the lane.

speaking of solo he has been a wonderful surprise among the many this year. just behind him is marvin and his three point shooting and increased effectiveness on the boards and on defense. it has been a huge benefit to the team. maybe it isnt as much a surprise but an affirmation of what many have seen in him but were frustrated to see his promise not fulfilled. finally, one has to like the gutty play of mo as a huge role in the success thus far. he has played the role of toughness on a team that lacked it last year. now let us get to 12 and 6 before leaving town.

By Melvin

November 30, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Look like the Hawks are not the only team that has trouble defending Devin Harris. Look at his stat line against Phx tonite… 47pts 7rebs 8ast 1stl

By Sekou K. Smith

November 30, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Anthony,

Joe has a sprained toe on his right foot that makes it pretty tough for him to move around like normal. It’s something I suspect he’ll be dealing with for at least the next few weeks or so.

By hawkeye

November 30, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

sekou, i don’t think its a good decision to tell a player that there are rumors that he will be traded cause that’s when a player starts to play lazy and uninspired and i don’t want that to happen to bibby…not now. and why do most of us keep on talking about bibby’s contract when we should be thinking of what the hell should we do with speedy????

By hawkeye

November 30, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

good for us that bibby is stepping up in place of JJ. i hope JJ will get well soon.

By rms

November 30, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

Dang Sekou U burning the midnite oil…. Hope u get paid for overtime!!

By Ariose

November 30, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

uummm….Bibby sure seemed inspired last night lol. If anything he wants to prove his worth to THIS team….

~Sir Links A Lot~

By doc

November 30, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

seems it was old news anyway:

The Blazers have been active on several trade fronts, including discussions earlier this season with the Atlanta Hawks that would’ve included a package for point guard Mike Bibby. Those talks died when the Hawks started the season with five straight victories.

or has it been revived?

By rms

November 30, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Dang hawkeye, thats a darn good question. Sekou, what the hell is up with Claxton. Whats with the trade rumors with that guy. I think politics is playing a role as to why he aint playing or why we dont hear anything about how soon he is playing. If it was J-smoove or Joe johnson or Horford we would be worrying the hell out them as to when they are coming back. No pressure for Claxton to come back, just show up to the game with a new suit on an collect your check. What a waste. Where’s the passion and drive to want to come back. I dont think he even wants to play….. What do u think??

By hawkeye

December 1, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

the guy is earning his 6M without doing anything. damn..

By reese

December 1, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

Melvin, Devin Harris also flew past Deron Williams for 34pts, 4rbs, 6ast and 3stls. I saw highlites on NBA TV and Deron could not stay in front of Devin. Kirilenko must have been hurt because he only played 9 mins and Boozer is out with an injury.

So again, those who mentioned trading Bibby because he was too slow would also recommend trading Steve Nash and Deron Williams.

The trade Bibby discussions remind me of the trade Josh Smith banter that I criticized last year. I was told that it was nothing personal against Josh, the ASG couldn’t afford to pay him, the ASG is loosing money paying the lawyers, Josh takes too many outside shots, Josh is not a good 1on1 defender, Josh makes too many turnovers, etc.

Well, as I spoke out against the trade Josh Smith pundits, I’ll continue to back the hawks need to keep Bibby. Kirknga has already provided solid points and I’ve given reasons on previous post.

If we must talk about trades, lets talk about trading Marvin Williams for a Center. I just don’t see Woodson playing a new Center heavy minutes as long as Marvin is here. Maurice Evans has proven that he can provide what Marvin provides. Marvin’s 1on1 defense is weak at best. He plays poor transition defense and help defense in the half court sets. His contract is up at the end of the year and a new team would be able to match what others offer him.

The reason that Zaza did not play is because Woodson did not want to play him. Woodson prefers playing the smaller lineup. He has more trust in Marvin at the power forward position and solo has demonstrated that he can be a defensive stopper.

His stated reason for not playing Zaza was because of match up issues. However, history has shown that woodson prefers playing his starters heavy minutes (each starter played more than 35 mins), woodson does not trust his bench (no bench player played 20 mins) and woodson is more comfortable with smaller bench rotations (only 3 bench players played between 11 and 19 mins).

By rms

December 1, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

With all the talk about Bibby noone is talking about Claxton sorry butt! This dude is sitting on the bench playing hurt yet Josh Smith got hurt and is already making a comeback. What no pressure on when Claxton is coming back(notice I am intentionally leaving “Speedy” from his name and just referring to him as Claxton)That is a complete waste. He is giving us nothing. He is the Hawks version of Mike Hampton!!! LOSER!!

By doc

December 1, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this

rms, insurance money if he doesnt play? do you think that is reason enough to let him sit? is he more valuable on the bench or in a suit collecting insurance money?

sekou care to render an opinion on whether we will see mr claxton in a uniform unless we are terribly short handed like the knicks were asking starbury to play.

By brent a.

December 1, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the Hawks need more youth.

But, what is the likelihood that Bibby gets re-signed?

It seems like it has to be explored.

Of course, Portland may well be the pursuer, here. After-all, in the West, the title of “best team not named the Lakers” is currently wide-open.

Portland knows that Bibby had given the Lakers fits in the past, and LA has shown a penchant for being unable to win (regular season, at least) in the Rose Garden.

Portland wold love to snag the #2 seed, while Utah, New Orleans, Phoenix, and San Antonio take their time rounding into shape, and rely on home court and a veteran PG to possibly help them wiggle into the WCF.

But, I thin the Hawks should roll with this bunch and hope for a 4th seed.

By MannyT

December 1, 2008 3:00 AM | Link to this

Let a guy load up on Thanksgiving food and all link logic gets broken.

Here is the article that ray mentioned. I believe I linked to this when it came out.

Not to be confused with the trial summary which gives a nice catchall for those who are interested.

In order to see Speedy play, I think the following would need to happen which I think is quite unlikely.

He gets a clean bill of health.

He shows in practice that he is a better option than all the other PGs for on-ball defense OR there is a serious losing streak.

He gets out of the we don’t trust him to stay healthy dog house.

BWAF

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 1, 2008 3:54 AM | Link to this

“Devin Harris also flew past Deron Williams for 34pts, 4rbs, 6ast and 3stls. I saw highlites on NBA TV and Deron could not stay in front of Devin. “

:So again, those who mentioned trading Bibby because he was too slow would also recommend trading Steve Nash and Deron Williams.”

I’ve criticized Bibby for being slow in the past — don’t think that means the Hawks should trade him, but he does have trouble guarding quicker players. But I think the scoring outbursts by Harris are more because he is becoming a legit top-5 point guard in the league, not so much because the players assigned to guard him suck at defense. Deron Williams in particular is one of the better defensive PGs in the league and usually does a really good job on Chris Paul when they go head to head. But Harris is legit. That whole New Jersey squad looks a lot better now than they did just before they won the home-and-home series with the Hawks. If Vince can stay motivated and Lopez keeps developing they are gonna comfortably make it to the playoffs.

By Samuel

December 1, 2008 6:47 AM | Link to this

Ando,

Of those 10, how many are on the trading block? Thought so.

By doc

December 1, 2008 7:37 AM | Link to this

since devon harris is in the news here i will draw a parallel that emphasizes what i said in an earlier post. admittedly though not quite comparable right now to our situation, last year the nets were close to making it into the playoffs. even with that they were smart enough to unload an aging superstar and salary in jason kidd to get devon harris. now if the hawks have a similar opportunity i dont want to wake up and see they have overlooked a similar deal to get a future star to hold onto what has been a bit of a high expense rental for one and a third seasons.

bibby, who i enjoy watching, could yet be the piece in a puzzle to someone truly competing for the top rung which this team is not yet considered to be doing unless you are a but delusional. given the right circumstances the hawks might have a huge upside if correct decisions are made for the long term. given that, bibby may have greater value to the hawks as a trade if we get a budding superstar. looking down the road i would be stupid as would the franchise owners, sund, coach woody or jj to not take the long term view if there is a potential superstar out there as compensation for what all agree has been a short term and expensive solution/fix for the hawks overlooking critical needs.

do you want to go up the pecking order or hope you might get out of the first round this year and come up empty next year? that may be the decision to be made. personally, it looks like the nets made the correct decision. dont we all agree on how the mavs and cuban failed and the nets won? now will the hawks be the winner if given the same circumstances? folks, that aint hatin, that is lovin.

go hawks, get to 12 and 6.

By Clyde

December 1, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

ROLL TIDE!!!!!

The person we need to really need to re-sign is my boy Solomon Jones. Ray I thought you said Horford was a power foward. If so why is he our best option at center?

11-0 And Headed For The Dome Alabama Is Undefeated In The Dome This Year!!!

By Astro Joe

December 1, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

Doc, interesting point on the Nets situation with Kidd and Harris. If there was a young PG who had been an apprentice for 3-4 years and was clearly ready to run a team, then that would make sense and the team would hopefully not slip too much during the transition. I’m just not sure how many of those “ready to lead” guys are out there (I doubt that Steve Blake is blocking Sergio, so I’m guessing that the Spaniard doesn’t fall into that category).

And again, I keep coming back to the JJ factor. If we’re trading Bibby for Jason Terry & Diop, then JJ may find it easier to swallow that deal vs. acquiring a “project” and possibly re-living the growing pains of the last few seasons.

By Ken Strickland

December 1, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

CLYDE-where are you from and how did you become such an Alabama football fan? I’m originally from Ala and I could care less about Ala or Auburn at this point. However, I once became an Ala fan when I learned that under Bear Bryant, their football program was 2nd in the nation, behind Penn State and Joe Paterno, in graduating its players.

That changed after the Bear left, and the president of the school at that time wanted to change that. So, he hired Bill Curry from Ga Tech to get the school back to previous academic levels. Curry did well, and even won a national championship, but had trouble defeating Auburn because of a couple of blocked puts. Do you remember the old PUNT BAMA PUNT chant Auburn fans once used? Bama’s alumni demonstrated they didn’t give a d—n about academics or having a clean run winning program if you can’t consistently beat Auburn. As a result, they had both Curry and the president that hired him fired.

I also can’t stand UGA because they embraced the same academic stench, as a result of the Jan Kemp, Vince Dooley DEVELOPMENTAL STUDIES PROGRAM acandal, which caused him to resign as HC. The school rewarded his corruption by making him the AD, while destroying Kemps career and life for exposing his scheme.

We only have to look at the attitudes and behavior of todays pro athletes to see the results of colleges and univ’s placing winning football and basketball gms, and making money, ahead of emphasizing academic accountability and personal development. They recruit these superior athletes/inferior students from fringe invironments and employ various methods of helping them maintain their eligibility, rather than making them attend classes and earn a passing grade. Then these same athletes are sent out into society socially, politicially, accademically, and if they don’t make it in professional athletics, financially ill prepared. We also have to give these high schools credit for dropping the ball as well.

By Astro Joe

December 1, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Those NJ defeats a few weeks ago don’t feel so bad these days, do they?

By doc

December 1, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

aj, no it doesnt feel bad abot the two with the nets but do you remember the sneers that were elicited on this blog when folks tried to point out the nets among others may have set themselves up to contest our 8th spot or the playoffs in general.

aj, as far as the other issue, the individuals are yet to be determined if at all. i am just clarifying my position that there are several scenarios that might mean we push the button. as far as the reference of time to develop it just has to be the right time and that is not determined by the number of years but where the help might come from. it took paul one year to catch on, deron two, nash was seasoned but who expected and with devon doing his thing it certainly suggests cuban has a quick trigger when it comes to trading the next best thing. two in a row is pitiful. guess he couldnt get insider info on that one, eh?

By Astro Joe

December 1, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Doc, good line… “insider info”, HA!

I hear you, different players develop differently. I’m just hoping that if we trade Bibby, we do so for a player who is months away from being “ripe” as opposed to years away. We don’t know how vulnerable we are in the middle because we’ve played too many games without Smith, Horford, Zaza and Solo being healthy at the same time. But that feels like it could be our greatest weakness. So could we trade Bibby and improve our interior defense without sacrificing too much from the PG position? I’m guessing that is the math equation Sund needs to make while the ASG makes the financial decision. But after losing tens of millions, will paying Bibby around $6M after February significantly improve the team’s balance sheet? Doubtful. Especially if having Bibby improves the chances of playing more than 3 home playoff games. So then it becomes more about making a basketball decision.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 1, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Poor Clyde-He actually thinks BAMA is gonna win a national title……Let’s see how enthusiastic you are next week this time. Gator;s gonna be too much. Whats that? How wierd a Plad fedora floating in the swamp Trade Bibby??? Im with Bibby im sick of the media type’s making up shyt…Incase no one has noticed -Bibby is shooting lights out and is keeping us in most games. JJ has’nt been himself becuz of his toe or whateva and Bibby and Marvin have stepped up big. Solo should get sum time with Josh and Al-this would really help us inside -ZAZA just does’nt have the length or elevation to stop guys near the rim.

Marvin is easily the most impressive yung Hawk….I think he’s turned the corner/ Al Horford looks exactly the same as last year…. I thought he’d be alot better but -oh well

Acie is a running PG- when we slow it down like JJ likes we shut down Acies production….. get the yungn more minutes -especially when we are not hitting shots

By darrell starks

December 1, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

I. MUS WRITE I AGREE WITH YOU 100PERCENT WOODY PLAY ACIE MORE AND THE BLOGERS NEED TO LEAVE BIBBY ALONG WITH THESE TRADE TALK . GO HAWKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Ariose

December 1, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Clyde, yeah Solomon Jones is a stud no doubt. He’s J-smoove lite lol. I think when smoove comes back we’re probaably going to see solo replacing him whenever he comes out of games all the time.

Gotta give Alabama their props, then again, Jhon Parker-Wilson DID come from Hoover. What did you expect? And Coffe is a beast.

Doc, I hear you on the Bibby situation. But the thing that scares me with JJ is that he’s a free agent in 2010…..and by that time if we’re(Hawks) not legit, he might just go wherever his friends go som they can all be on happy little legit family hehehe…..But then again you know JJ (Follow the $$$$) he’ll make the best financial decision lol……he did in 05’.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

December 1, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

I.MUS, Horford really improved his Jumpshot though. With Smoove out he’s also not getting into foul trouble and blocking and rebouding at a higher rate. How many 20pt games would he have had up to this point if smoove was playing?

I think he has gotten better but Horford is just a really goodv team player. The Hawks are sharing the ball a lot this year so when soove comes back expect everyones numbers to drop……..kinda like the Big3 up in Beantown.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By rms

December 1, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

doc, Claxton is more valuable if he plays. thats what he getting paid to do, not look good in a new suit on the bench all the time. Like I said before, I dont think he is injured all that bad because if he was a star player he there would be a timetable as to when he is coming back or he would be under some pressure to some extent to rebab more quickly to get in the lineup. I personally dont hear any consistent interviews with him saying he is looking forward to coming back soon or anything like that. Very dissapointed in him. I would like to see more of Law in longer stretches of the game maybe even get some late 4th quarter experience also. And just for the record…. I HATE MIKE WOODSON!! All he does is BWAF…aint that right Manny T.

By Astro Joe

December 1, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Ariose, exactly. Just like others are making decisions to lure the ‘10 class of free agents away, we need to make decisions to keep JJ on board when his contract expires. (And the same is true for Miami, Toronto, Phoenix, Cleveland and others with their respective stars). JJ stated emphatically his desire to play with vets who can help the team win and take some pressure off of him on a nightly basis, so trading Bibby (who addresses both of those issues) is potentially an explosive problem. Oh and considering that Bibby is giving us our best PG play in decades, maintaining the status quo suddenly doesn’t feel like a non-response but instead, the right choice.

From the standpoint of “follow the money”, sucking up the $6M or so from February until the end of the year and then sitting on the salary cap relief seems like a way to maintain financial restraint. The $20M in salaries coming off the books between Bibby & Zaza will more than out-weigh whatever investment they choose to make in Marvin. I think the ASG can hold their nose, swallow the salary and hope for more than 3 home playoff games while seeing the benefit of expiring contracts in the coming months.

By I MUS WRITE

December 1, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

Ariose- his jumper is improved,but he does’nt shoot that much. Horford is what he is …. a strong rebounder/defensive player.

1. Does he have a reliable go to move in the post… NO

2. How does he get his points…tip ins and dunks

3. Has a problem scoring on bigger guys….YES

Horford is a solid player,but lets stop calling this man-beast,boss etc….

His ceiling is probably Carlos Boozer- will never be a Bosh/Stoudamire type forward I might be stretching it here but i think Javeel Mcgee is gonna be just as solid as Horford 2010… If JJ doesnt stay for around 17 milli- I say let him walk and go after D.Wade hard and resign BiBby for about 7 milli Our line up could be Bibbi/Wade/Marvin/Smoove/Horford

By Ariose

December 1, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

I.Mus, I hear you. I’m not ingnoring Horfords shortcomings at all. I’ve said tons of times on here that I think he’s a Center for sure and his offensive game is not sited for him to be a Star Power Forward in this leauge…….yet

I was just pointing out that he has improved and that he just “gets in where he fits in.” Whatever the team needs it what he tries to do…….when smoove comes back he’s gonna look invisible some nights on the offensive and defensive end. Of course that that doesn’t mean he’s not working and banging around like he usually does. He’s a very good team guy.

……unlike “S.T.A.T” up in Pheonix who is currently whining about not being the “featured player” lol.

And Javalle McGee is going to be a beast…..he almost threw down a couple of lobs that they left for him way up in the heavens lol. Only Bynum, Smoove, and Tryus Thomas would have been able to throw those down lol…….he’ll catch them eventually though. He’s gonna be a stud.

I personally don’t think JJ’s going anywhere. Sund will move quickly on that on no doubt………he might even snag someone else too(Ginobili?)

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

December 1, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

And Tyson Chandler too lol.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

December 1, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

I wanna see This lineup on the Floor:

JJ, Marvin, Smoove, Solo, Horford

Can you say block party……..SWAT Team???

Whatever you wanna call it. I think this linup can do big things for us, especially against really big teams like Cleveland and L.A

~Sir Links A Lot~

By I MUS WRITE

December 1, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Yeah I hope JJ stay’s with us but if he bolts there are a number of guys that could fill his shoes.

Ginoblli…we could only be so lucky

Amare should be the focal point of the offense.really talented …but he should stop cry’n and just play ball

How much would u pay Horford if he was due an extension before the first of the year- just curious

Another guy to watch for is Nick Batuum…..this guy is gonna be the real deal-Scottie Pippen ish

2 yrs ago he had his way with our 19 and under and now he’s playing well against the NBA elite -totally making Martell Webster expendable

Now a BibbyZAZA/2nd for Rodriguez/Batuum/Pryz -sounds like a good trade

By BA

December 1, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

The more things change around here, the more they stay the same!

-Just a little friendly ribbing on the Marvin thing last blog, ando. Yeah, you predicted Atlanta would lose in Toronto (So, I imagine, did Vegas). But if Pachulia could’ve played in the fourth, you might have missed that one as well.

And speaking of Pachulia, since he apparently re-injured his shoulder, that would explain WHY he wasn’t playing that quarter. I was on here (with about ten other people) scolding Woodson for not putting him in- so Woody, if you’re reading, sorry bub.

And finally, our dead horse past time- trading the point guard. I’ll preface this by saying that speculation on trade discussions none of us were privy to is kind of like discussing the box score for a game that was never played. But we’ll do it to death anyway, won’t we?!

That having been said…

IF it had happened, and we were left with Sergio as the starter, well, I’m not convinced he would start even over Acie Law. There’s more to Bibby than a streaky jumper and expiring contract. He’s a VETERAN, with experience and poise.

Everybody knew that this Hawks roster was laden with talent before Bibby. Unlike Johnson, Bibby appears to be a more vocal leader. Somebody to show these cats how to act “like you’ve been there”. Sergio, Harris, or even Calderon don’t have that quality (yet). Neither does Law. You’ve got to have somebody with that skill to make any noise in the playoffs.

That’s the overriding factor that makes me think that they’ll keep him, even as the owners are waiting in bread lines with their fingers crossed (hoping for doc’s aforementioned playoff revenue). I even think there’s an outside possibility he could be resigned, though I hope not at the expense of losing Williams.

Can’t wait to watch the game on Wednesday- except I can’t. At least I can listen on the radio- what’s that? You can only pick it up in the 790 “the zone” am parking lot? Damn. Thanks, Hawks. I wonder if anybody in Boston or L.A. has trouble finding their teams broadcasts…

By doc

December 1, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

good stuff ba, however solo was ready and able to swat a few of those close in second chances that cost us the game in toronto. graham did us in that quarter with some bench buddies not bosh who was as hot as they come in the third quarter dealin from downtown as much as in close nor calderon nor JON injured or bargnani.

as far as wednesday, maybe i will convince your buddy ando to give you a recap as we will be there harassing each other. might be like “the rest of the story” sekou doesnt report.

heh heh

By richbrave

December 1, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

I MUS WRITE and Ariose:

That’s JaVALE McGEE to you sirs.

By Ariose

December 1, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Richb, Sorry sheesh…didn’t mean to short change your boi hehehe…. ;-)

He’s gonna be a real good shot blocker..

Ken, But Georgia just sent Mike Mercer Paking last year and he now plays for South Florida. They also suspended some Ball players last season……Seems to me like they care about academics……..of course I can’t say anything about their past though.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By cp

December 1, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

I think Horford could be real effective in the post but his moves need a lot of work. He always seems to rush it when he is down low. If he took his time and used his speed to his advantage I think he could become a lot better down in the paint. I honestly don’t know what our so called big man coach does. I don’t even remember Tyrone Hill being a good low post player when he was in the league. He was always a good defender and rebounder. Cant say I saw him score very effectively or efficiently down low.

By MannyT

December 1, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

Maybe we can get an update on how hurt, Zaza, aka, the one armed bandit was. I hope he was held out due to injury, but you cannot tell with this coaching staff. I recall that they rolled out the Royal Ivey game plan for him the night before. Start, play 5, sit. Repeat at half.

I would like JJ to stay, but y’all are a bit too worried a bit too early. Until we know if this team is run by Glen Gotbucks, Pat Poormouth or an odd conglomerate of a used car dealer, a US car manufacturer and the US government—it’s too soon to say what makes sense. Besides, July 1, 2010 is the start of a reality show called Real Life Fantasy Basketball. It sounds like most of the NBA will be free agents on that day so all the teams will have a shot at LeBron, Carmello, Bosh, etc.

Every team cannot win, but if we lose JJ there should be a nice salary slot to attract some high quality player. The real question is will we be able to attract a good player. Not knocking Flip or Mo, but the last desirable big name we pulled in free agency was Mutombo.

doc the Mavs would have been so much better off with Harris, but teams take that shot on getting the last player in the puzzle when they are close. Are we lovin, or McLovin hmmmm

BWAF

By richbrave

December 1, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

ARIOSE:

Still mighty raw as I have noted on numerous occasions here. But you’re absolutely right, provided he is well coached which now has become a debatable issue in D.C.

If TOM THIBIDEUX(sp. - guys, a little help) ever accepts the offers which have been and are being extended to him(no tampering - of course), McGEE will flourish and the HAWKS will once again have some worthy competition in the S.E. division.

With HAYWOOD finally rounding into a solid defender and McGEE, the next several years look bright at the five for the “ZARDS. BUTLER is THE three, but JAMISON is blocking BLATCHE at the four and its affecting his development.

Did you notice SONGAILA’s play Saturday night.? How the WIZARDS began to recover on the scoreboard once he was inserted. Solid defensively, very active. This happens every time he enters a game no matter the opposition. He doesn’t get the credit he deserves. Been following him since his WAKE FOREST days when he played here at the University of RICHMOND on two different occasions.

By richbrave

December 1, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

MANNT T:

TONE LOC now that evokes memories of the movie “TIN MEN.” Always loved that movie. Reminded me of my insurance sales days and the sales “techniques” we were taught and practiced on the public. Thank GOD for deliverance from that pergatory. As RICHARD DREYFUSS professed in his mea culpa “[deceit], its an occupational hazard.”

By Mick

December 1, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

You guys are mad. Bibby played for us here in Sacramento, and was truly awesome, even better in the playoffs. Johnson may be good, but Bibby is the real reason the Hawks are a better team, as he is a master floor general. Witness last years playoffs, and anticipate more this year …

Mick

By mykhalc

December 1, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

Mick, we just are NOT used to a real PG…well one that actually suits up, plays, AND PRODUCES!!! (and makes the difference)

BIBBY TRADE = JJ GOES POSTAL!!!

people he ain’t goin’ NOWHERE…IMHO

By Blast

December 1, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Tell them, Mike.

I’ve been trying to let these trade Bibby folks know how valuable this guy is to any team. We are lucky to have him. I couldn’t believe it when I heard we traded for him last year. HE was THE wizard in the last game vs the Wizards. He’s healthy now and showing what he can do. Mistep or not, he is great at what he does. And anybody who says he can’t play defence need to watch the last game.

Dev Harris is gonna be an All Star in this league. Dallas short changed themselves. No if WE were to pull a coup in the same manner for Bibby, maybe. But I don’t know how many sleeper superstar point guards are out there that can bloom like Harris has.

By hawkeye

December 1, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

hey, i noticed that al is averaging more assist than a typical big man. don’t you think that we can run a pick and roll offense thru him with bibby? al have good hands like webber/divac. i think building a chemistry between him and bibby will make them a good one-two punch like bibby/webber duo back in sacto. al is great passer while bibby is one of the best pick and roll user in the league. it will benefit them both. but i guess it won’t be possible with woody as our coach.:D —- watch nba tv’s game against toronto. al and bibby looked good together executing that play.

By Melvin

December 1, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Hmmm, there may be more pennies in that ASG piggy bank than we think….

From ESPN,

Last season at this time, the economy was booming. This season, it is in the tank. Are NBA teams feeling consumer withdrawal? More than twice as many NBA teams have had a decrease in attendance as have had an increase in attendance this season.

Led by Oklahoma City (39.4 percent) — which played last season in Seattle as the SuperSonics — there are eight teams that have seen an increase in attendance this season entering Friday. The others are the Hornets, Pacers, Blazers, Hawks, Nets, Rockets and Bucks.

Four teams — the Celtics, Pistons, Lakers and Suns — are averaging the same amount of fans as a season ago.

The Clippers (15.2 percent) lead 18 teams that have suffered a decrease in attendance.

By Don!

December 1, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

Since when did Yahoo become a reputable source for anything other than movie times?

Later,

Don!

By Mike is back

December 1, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

MannyT, I agree with you on the DHarris trade. The Mavs management drop the ball on that one and the coach paid the price.  

It’s the holidays,  ease up on Woody broooooooooooooooooo!!heh heh You’re a stats guy, the number don’t lie, we are 10-6.  There has been a plethora of discussion on this blog about the need to get off to a fast start at the beginning of the season, and the torrid road schedule this team has faced.   Look at the team record coming out the gate, and look at their East Conference ranking, despite adversity, this team has continue fight. We got a ways to go in terms of offensive scheme, but surely Woody can get more credit than that. 

C’MON MANNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m not Woody’s defender, but just like he gets dogged when the team is losing, he should be acknowledge when this team is playing above .500, winning on the road, plus they are maturing and growing together as a unit. Guys are stepping up in the absence of Smoove, and a injured JJ and Zaza. That speaks volume of this team as a whole, and that includes the coach.

WELCOME BACK SMOOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By ray

December 1, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

IMUS WRITE,

Not to pick a point of contention or make an excuse for a player, but I have a couple of ideas why Horford doesn’t look all that improved. How could he without his tag team partner in there, and him doing so much dirty work himself?

Does he have trouble scoring against bigger guys? Yep. We’ve been screaming that he’s a power forward forced to play center. Everybody kept saying “so what” and scoffing at the idea of him being “undersized” for the center position. Well, what do you know…he’s having trouble scoring against bigger guys…who happen to play their natural position. He’d be fine as a power forward, I say. But as long as Josh is at the 4, pencil Horford in at the 5.

It is what it is. However, I feel that he just plays so much better when he’s next to Smith, who seems to be a very natural frontcourt running mate for him. That, and Horford doesn’t seem to get to use any post moves much (though he does need to work on them). As Ariose said, he has developed a midrange jumper. But we go to him so infrequently, and then go away from him so quickly….how can he get into a rhythm? I think he’s been allowed to do so in only two games so far this year.

Oh well, guess he better work double time on those post moves so that he can be effective with them instantly. Seems like Woody’s favorite thing to do when a player gets hot is to take the ball away from them. Unless of course they have the name “Johnson” on the back of their uniform…..heh heh.

MannyT,

Thanks for re-posting the link to that article. I don’t know what the heck I was doing….but it wasn’t posting a link, I can tell you that. By the way, that Lawrence Frank/Richard Simmons thing was off the damn chain. I lost half of my Sprite on that one….Boy, you are crazy…

Ariose,

Rust? There can’t be rust on my link skills. I don’t have any….LOL.

Doc, Yeah I remember vividly getting roundly criticized for saying that the Nets could be a good team this year. And I only said that once or twic…Anymore and some people would’ve said I was a Nets fan and not a Hawks fan.

Najeh,

Mark Cuban has to feel a jack-a$$ for letting Harris go. The kid does indeed blow past a lot of guys. And I think you’re right about him becoming a legit top 5 point guard. What’s worse is that he does this a couple/few years after letting Steve Nash go sign with the Suns. The man doesn’t know a good pg when he sees one, much less a great one.

Tell you what, BK might have passed on two excellent pgs in the draft, but at least he didn’t have them playing and proving to him (and the rest of the league) that they are top talent. Cuban did. Doh!

By ray

December 1, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Mike, we’re tryin’, we’re tryin’. Really we are. But the BWAF keeps us off balance…

Ando,

Remember what I said? Tell people the sky is falling, and some will accuse you of trying to make it happen, despite your inability to do so. Heh….

By ray

December 1, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Be glad to see Josh back. We’ll need him something fierce when we’re done with our home games. Got the dreaded Texas triangle after that…though I don’t dread it as much as in times past.

By Ken Strickland

December 1, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

ARIOSE-I didn’t mean to sound like things haven’t changed at any of the schools I mentioned. The truth is, I’m not a big college football fan, so I don’t keep up with school trends.

During the gm against the Wizards, I was upset that they allowed the gm to get close near the end. However, I was pleased at the way we responded to the challenge. We will have to play and win those types of gms in order for us to advance to and advance in the playoffs.

For me, the most impressive play of the gm was the 3pt play Horford made to seal the gm. Marvin had the ball and could have easily taken a jumpshot. Instead, he faked the shot and drove the baseline, forced the DEF to collapse and delivered a perfect 2 hand shovel pass to Horford, who made a strong 3pt finish. That was the ultimate demonstration of how far Marvin’s gm and confidence has progressed and how much he’s matured.

When Smoove returns, I think Zaza will be the odd man out in the rotation.

By rms

December 1, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

What are the chances of the Hawks laying a goose egg against Memphis at home and O.J. Mayo scoring like 35 against us and Rudy Gay scoring about 30pts. That would be a shonuff embarrassment right there? Then you would see a “POBWAF”!! That would be a sight for sore eyes….

By reese

December 1, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Both Tyrone Hill and Alton Lister had long careers in the NBA. Both were journey men and learned their craft from different coaches and different players.

Lister never averaged double figure rebounds in his 16 year career. He only averaged double figures in points (11.6) 1 time in his career.

Tyrone Hill played 14 years and averaged double figures in points and rebounds 4 times each.

Now, being a double digit rebounder or scorer is not a requirement or guarantee that means you will be a good coach. Also, if a player didn’t average double digit points and rebounds doesn’t mean that they will be a bad coach.

However, the repeated lack of fundamentals by our big men on the offensive end is frustrating to watch year after year.

Zaza, Solomon, Josh Smith, Marvin and Al Horford still do not run the pick and roll properly. They continue to turn their back to the ball. Our big men continue to throw the ball out of the lane when they get offensive rebounds instead of taking it up strong. They all allow the ball to be slapped out of their hands too easily and they don’t show confidence in their low block moves.

Unfortunately, these are similar traits that plagued both of our big men coaches in Tyrone Hill and Alton Lister.

By doc

December 1, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

manny t, help me decipher that one of rms’.

ray, you been stealin my material just left out the insider info that cuban lacks when he shops a point guard.

By reese

December 1, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Doc, your example of Dallas trading Devin Harris to New Jersey is a perfect example of why we shouldn’t trade Bibby.

Why should we be like Mark Cuban who trades away point guards who can get the job done.

Especially, when Bibby has not had a chance to see where he can take this team in a full season, his players rave about his knowledge of the game and despite his losing a step he is still able to be player who is getting the job done.

Besides, isn’t that shooting touch of his is pretty watch.

By reese

December 2, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Najeh Davenpoop, I think that we are in agreement in that Bibby has lost a step but doesn’t need to be traded.

As far as Devin Harris goes, he probably would not be producing in Dallas in the same manner as he is in New Jersey.

Why?, because of Dirk Nowitski, Jason Terry, Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse who are accomplished scorers. Dirk, Josh and Jason are all averaging more than 20 points a game.

Where as, New Jersey only has Vince Carter who is an accomplished scorer. Only Yi Jianlian at 11.1 points per game is averaging double digit points beside of carter and harris.

So it would be safe to assume that the coach of Dallas would be looking for a different trait out of their point guard than the coach of the nets at this stage of their team’s development.

The good thing about Bibby is that he is able to blend in with the 7 hawks players who are averaging double figures and he is able to provide a balance of when he needs to score and when he needs to get others involved.

The bigger question is who deserves more playing time between Zaza and Solomon Jones when Josh Smith comes back. Both are averaging 18 minutes a game and 4.5 points a game.

However, Solomon has better stats in every offensive/defensive category accept rebounds. Subtract the offensive rebounds zaza gets because of his own missed shots and they would probably be the same.

By doc

December 2, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

reese i love to watch him shoot.

however, if i get an offer to catch a young and comer for less money to move bibby later this year or this month then i go for it. i will not let my emotions get in the way of what might be better long term which is the decision the nets made to get harris and the strength we might be moving from later this year. bibby is the old sniper with only 65 more games to play in a hawks uniform. emotionally i’d love to think he would stay here longer for less money, just dont think it will happen.

By richbrave

December 2, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

reese:

SOLO. I think he has greater upside. ZaZa tends to disappear against top centers around the league doesn’t he.? Now if JONES could just get some extended play time.

By terrell barron

December 2, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

It sure is nice to know that we have another shot blocker in Solo. When Josh goes out, now we’ve got a backup swatter.

By terrell barron

December 2, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Ken, Zaza will still get his min. Unfortunately, Horford and Solo cant seem to stay out of foul trouble. But you’re right though, Solo is clearly an upgrade over Zaza at this point. And Woody is starting to realize it. Another good pick for BK. He might end up being a STEAL in the 2nd. He’s already better than our 1st rdr from that draft. lol!

By Melvin

December 2, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

Looking forward to the upcoming offseason (I know its too early for that) but the Hawks should be in a good position to make some moves if they choose to. Bibby, Marvin, Solo and ZaZa will be coming off the books (If they choose not to resign them). They still have the rights to JChill, D.Andersen and the Turkish PG. They will have the rights to their own draft picks and Speedy Claxton expiring contract (which could be valuable b/c of insurance coverage). We will see just how good Sund is with so many decision that will need to be made this upcoming summer.

By ray

December 2, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Oh but Doc, money has nothing to do with it. There’s no money involved in any of this. Sacramento didn’t trade him to us because of money. They were just crazy. And we didn’t even know he had an expiring contract. No, we wanted to find a pg we could pay $15 million a year to. In fact, we’ll sign him to another contract for roughly the same money. He’s worth it for the next 5-10 years. Guaranteed.

By ray

December 2, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Melvin,

Better hope it doesn’t go down like it did this past summer…

By Melvin

December 2, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Ray, My fingers are crossed. But it does seem like the Hawks will have alot of flexbility going forward.

By mykhalc

December 2, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

DOC, i get your point(s) on will BIBBY go or stay. but lemme ask you this as a season tix holder. would you renew your tix with ACIE as the #1 PG right now??

this is what the HAWKS face by not doin’ all they can to establish last years momentum as their foundation…right now!! in a town as fickle as ATL when it comes to a payin’ season tix holder base and walk-up payin’ crowd, the BASG would take the chance to truly see the recession hit them in full-force!! so whatever moves they make they need to be done to insulate them as much as possible goin’ forward from an attendance that would easily shift their money to somethin’ else ‘cause of front office moves.

so if BIBBY is moved as you and others ‘kinda’ predict then the move HAD BETTER have IMMEDIATE POSITIVE impact. there is NO ROOM for error in this economy nor in the ATL fan base IMHO.

and i’ll say it again, you DO NOT get rid of the EXACT thing that you are gonna have to go find nor the thing that you’ve lookin’ for…for how many years now???!!! does the name SPEEDY CLAXTON ring a bell??? ANTHONY JACKSON??? TYRON(sp?) LUE??? just sayin’!!!???!!

By Astro Joe

December 2, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

terrell, I disagree.. Solo is a better shot-blocker than Zaza but I don’t think his overall game is better… not yet.

By jhan

December 2, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

ZaZa vs. Solo - individually neither is that great. As a bench tandem they are above average. Why does it have to be one or the other? Give them both the same minutes off the bench for proper utilization.

Good point about the money & Bibby. They get immediate relief if they trade him for future assets. But they will have long term losses because the team will be worse - therefore lower ticket sales. Not sure what the best route is for the ASG.

Manny T - I see you are atop the leader board in our fantasy league. Enjoy your stay - I’m breathing down your neck!

By Ken Strickland

December 2, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Although there have been some mention of Bibby possibly having lost a step or two, the real reason for any mention of him possibly being traded is strictly financial. Take a look at the trade that recently took place between Detroit and Denver. Denver paid all of that money to acquire Iverson and didn’t see any niticable improvement. They traded Iverson, and his talent, quickness, scoring and contract for CBillups. Billups isn’t, nor has he ever been, as talented overall as Iverson. But, Billups is a superior leader, team player and PG and we’ve all seen the results his impact has caused with Denver. In other words, with Billups, Denver got more for a lot less money. That’s the issue that’s being presented with the possibility of trading Bibby. We can possibly get more for much less, or at least as much, by trading his 15M+ salary.

We’ve already seen how much of an improvement signing vet FA’s like Murray and Evans has made to the team. Freeing ourselves of Bibby’s contract would allow us to possibly acquire additional vet FA help and further improve the team. Consider this. Without Bibby’s, Zaza’s and Speedy’s contracts, we would save over 20M dollars. Trading Bibby would not only save us money, but possibly get us a draft pick or two. That could put us in the running to go after a quality FA like CBosh. Who knows, he might be willing to accept a hometown discount to come back to the ATL. JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

By doc

December 2, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

myk, i have been really good for the last 4 months, now dont get me started on the basg. however they will need a new point guard next year, somehow the skeptic in me thinks bibby will not be kept at any cost so he is gone no matter what when i go to renew. ya know what i mean?

jhan, where you been dude?

By MannyT

December 2, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Me and this blog technology are not getting along lately. Too many deleted posts.

Mike He has done better than expected this season. I do give him credit for that. However, I am still as comfortable with him as a good dancing leg is with Plaxico Burress. He just makes me nervous, even when things are going well.

I am not trying to throw Woody under the bus. He seems to be a very nice guy and a very average coach. Sure the team is 10-6 and that is great. Look at what happened to Avery Johnson last season. He had to give up a lot to get a 35 year PG and they did no better than in the past. Now he can talk about games instead of coach them. Avery got thrown under the bus by an owner that made a bad call on his PG…again. Woody just gets overly particular about the route he drives this team through. Not the best, not the worst, but a real safe, not imaginative on the offensive end type of bus.

Allow me a video game analogy. Woody reminds me of the guy who can get through lots of easy levels in Pacman by eating the power dots, but he doesn’t get the points that are available for eating the monsters. However, the players that get the high scores take more risks. They are always waiting to eat those power dots when they think they can get 3 or 4 blue monsters.

reese I am not defending the big man coaches, but most successful coaches were not particularly good players. Both Lister and Hill had long NBA careers. They may not have been spectacular, but they learned enough to figure out how to stay in the league.

doc Me thinks rms is very anti Woody. As you can tell from my words above to Mike I don’t think I am as anti-Woody. However, he does sound like the once famous rapper, Tone Loc. …from which came the karaoke remark. I wonder if Tone Loc had to pay Robert Palmer any royalties for video sampling!

I do agree that it is a good thing that Bibby is here, but it is unlikely for the long term. Remember the old cartoons when the wolf looks at the lamb and sees a lamb chop. I think Sund looks at Bibby and sees a salary slot for a Major free agent…just like Bibby was 4 or 5 years ago when Sactown had a healthy Chris Webber and the Princeton offense was new to the NBA.

ray Fog is factual evidence that the sky falls ;-) Fog machines are factual evidence that man can find a way to fake reality and turn it into a reason to throw a party.

As Billy Joel might say—You Didn’t start the Fog…It was always churning, since the world’s been turning…

BWAF

By mykhalc

December 2, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

DOC, LOL on the BASG!!! i won’t start on WOODSON since you won’t start on the BASG!!LOL

your point is taken brah and may well be the accurate view. i guess from a business point i’d really hate to see this team/franchise take a step back when they have FINALLY taken steps in a forward movin’ direction.

i think the reality is BIBBY knows he’ll take a paycut next year to get a multi-year deal. see BARON DAVIS as the poster child for how i think BIBBY will go after his last BIG contract.

so the question is, do the HAWKS ante up even tho their outta pocket expense should be ‘less’ for BIBBY’s salary next year???!!??

i guess my bottom line is…i hope the HAWKS mgmt have learned that when you have somethin’ that works you roll with it, especially when ones history shows smart moves/decisions are few and far in-between!!!

By jhan

December 2, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

doc - I’ve been a silent member of the liars table recently. I’ve been reading & enjoying the banter.

Let’s hook up at the game tomorrow for a cold beer & warm pretzel.

By jhan

December 2, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Ando - my wife asked me how my friend “toucher” was doing today. She drove by your old neighborhood & that sparked her memory. LOL

By JerryWest

December 2, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

from ESPN:

Why is it that some coaches always seem to get the most out of their players? Simple, they allow them to play with defined roles and expectations. That way, the players can just go out and play without second-guessing their efforts and actions.

This is being illustrated beautifully in San Antonio, where Hill has exploded for 20, 23 and 20 points in consecutive games. You would never know he was a rookie drafted late in the first round by watching him and the shots he takes.

Hill is a talented player, who is being asked to create points and offensive opportunities, so he does so without concern that he may get pulled if he fails — which is one reason he succeeds. A great lesson from a master coach in Gregg Popovich.

By doc

December 2, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

myk, knew you would understand.

jhan you are on, manny t you know where we will be. you too volman unless the books got you down.

By ray

December 2, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

MannyT, good analogy. And no, we didn’t start the fog….not by a long shot….

Mykhalc, it’s really hard to say which way this goes and when. Opportunities that didn’t exist before may come to light in the near future. Or not. We don’t know. Taking a step back is acceptable to me if and only if it is very temporary and the reasonable (as in we don’t become a bad team, just not as good as we could be right away), very clear goal is a move made to ensure that we will be even better than before, and for a long time.

I’ll give one example that I’m sure to get flamed for. I’d be okay with playing .500 ball all season (or maybe a game or two above it) and making the playoffs as an 8th seed, having made a move that is designed to make us 4th or 5th seed or better the FOLLOWING year (and the next several years after that, getting better as we go)….vs. being a 6th or perhaps more likely 7th seed this year with a record that’s a handful of games above .500, with the knowledge that I will have to start over with the point guard thing yet again at season’s end.

Is that a good example? Perhaps, perhaps not. Are there a lot of pertinent and defining details missing from the concept? Yep, but I didn’t want to get into all of them, since there are a lot of possibilities that exist, and I don’t know how it all matches up salary-wise. In the end, I simply wonder what’s the best way to plan for the future without unnecessarily sacrificing the present.

What I don’t want is to see this franchise caught with it’s pants down again. People want to see Bibby re-signed. What a nice idea. Can we afford to outbid teams that may or already do have a better chance at competing deep in the playoffs? Heh….can we afford a bidding war at all? And then, will bidding hard for him compromise future considerations? Will he be worth that cash on a team that needs other pieces to truly compete with the very best, or do we really believe that Bibby is all that is needed to compete for championships, assuming that this is the ultimate goal some day?

Yes, teams will want Bibby, as I’m sure some snide-a$$ fool will comment smugly upon, as if that’s new news. Cleveland wanted him before we got him. Now, they appear to be very happy to have gotten Maurice Williams (and they’re playing great). Teams also wanted Sam Cassell and Damon Stoudamire (when he was healthy). The teams on the edge between good and great always want a veteran difference-maker to get them over that last little hump to the last big dance.

I have more thoughts and ideas on this crucible, if you will, but I will present them at a later time….and on a different platform….

By ray

December 2, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Jhan,

Good to see you alive and well. Well, not exactly see you, but you know…give me a holla when you get a chance. I’ll e-mail you with the new cell.

By mykhalc

December 2, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, i get what you are suggestin’ and certainly those things would not be so bad if they played out that way. but man, i just do not have confidence that this franchise can make the right moves toooooo many times in a row…trade for BIBBY, signin’ AL, re-signin’ SMOOVE, signin’ MO and FLIP…and now a team with chemistry and winnin’!!!???!! i’d hesistate to touch it. know what i mean??

By MannyT

December 2, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

I’ll be there, subbing popcorn for pretzel. Popcorn is about the freshest thing they have if you get it from the popcorn only station. Good thing you guys aren’t Philly fans…then it would be a warm beer and a cold pretzel.

Now if only I had a 20% of the way Fantasy Hoops Leader shirt I could wear ;-)

Devin Harris appreciation along with a nice word about Mr. Bibby!

At least Avery Johnson got a going away package from Cuban that he can call his I told you so fund.

BWAF

By Astro Joe

December 2, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

JerryWest, Pop is a HOF coach so I’m not taking a shot at him. But that type of strategy can sometimes stunt a young player’s growth. It may lead to Hill being pigeon-holed into the Eddie House role. Woody has done a similar thing with Flip… giving him the freedom to provide instant offense. While Acie could possibly provide similar production, I think the plan is to nurture him into something more than a 20-minute a night player.

Tony Parker is so young (and talented) that he will clearly be the PG for as long as he wants to be. So I guess that keeps Hill in that “Microwave” role which allows Pop the luxury of letting the young guy do what comes naturally.

By Sautee

December 2, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

kirknga

I don’t believe you.

I don’t believe that your use of the word “hate” was at all colloquial. You didn’t say anybody was “hatin’ on Bibby. Nor did you say “playa hatah” or anything of the sort. Those would be colloquiallisms.

I posted the dictionary definition of hate because of this. Here’s exactly what you said:

It’s not because of “monetary concerns”, because we all got that point the the first time it was made months ago. No I’m afraid the concern is really just hate.Plain and simple.

Now tell me, how is that colloquial? just hate, plain and simple? Tell me, I’ll wait.

If one were trying to describe to someone the difference between the dictionary version and the colloquial version, you’d likely use exactly such a phrase to describe NOT the colloquial version, but the dictionary definition!

Your credibility keeps sinking like a stone.

And it’s a very serious thing to charge someone with hate. Do you know their heart?

And then you said this:

Why is there a problem with those of us who want to emphasize what has gone right so far this season? Is trading Bibby really more discussion worthy than the Hawks having a plausible shot at a seed (4th? 5th?) higher than many of us thought?

If a discussion about a plausible higher seed was what you really wanted, why in the world didn’t you just START it?

Maybe you wanted something else.

By Sautee

December 2, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

kirknga

Oh yeah I forgot this:

Why is there a problem with those of us who want to emphasize what has gone right so far this season?

Once again, your credibility drops.

Who on this blog has ever had a “problem”with anyone emphasizing what has gone right this season? Who?

Once again, I’ll wait.

By Ken Strickland

December 2, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

I hope Smoove understands it’s his DEF, not his OFF, that’s needed most upon his return. Solo has done an outstanding job of protecting the paint coming off the bench. Smoove’s return will give us that type of protection in the paint when he returns as a starter. I really want to see the DEF impact of having both he and Solo in the gm together.

I wonder what RMorris is thinking after initiating the effort to sign with the Hawks. Now, he’s firmly entrenched on the bench here, like he was in NY, while having to deal with another inflexible, ego driven, it’s about me, HC. I hope Acie can maintain his aggressiveness and doesn’t allow Woodson’s high handed kindergarden approach to dealing with players to break him like Salim eventually did.

By Sautee

December 2, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

mykhalc

Yo, Myk,

Good to see you back. Welcome home, bro.

I’m like you. I’d love to keep Bibby if we could. But finances may be the ultimate decision maker.

If that’s the case, then we certainly need a point in return who shoots a high percentage from outside. And a big with an expiring contract, and a decent pick. Would Bibby bring that in trade?

It’s the only way I’d be OK with him leaving.

Hope the playing has been great for you.

By rms

December 2, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

yeah I guess you’re right Manny T. I am a bit anti-Woody since its hard for to buy into what his gameplan (offensively speaking) is supposed to be. After 4 seasons its hard for me to figure out what kind of team (identity) we are to be known for. I am not saying play every player on the bench, because some guys just dont got it, but dang, stop wearing your starters out when u dont have to. He is such a veterans player coach that he tends to overlook the decent players he already have. Plus I hates it when he turns into a POBWAF. Ridiculous….or hilarious depending on the situation.

By mykhalc

December 2, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Sautee, whatz shakin’ bass slinger!!! playin’ is good man. hope for you too!!!

at this point, i have NO complaints nor desire to see BIBBY anywhere else but in a HAWKS uni. he is the glue that makes this team function as smoothly as it does. supplies ALL the needs/options we have ALWAYS looked for in a PG.

my only desire is that JJ not hold onto the ball as much as he does sometimes (and SMOOVE gets back). and if that’s my only complaint then i gotta like what i see.

ooohhhh, but then there IS WOODSON…LOL

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 2, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Well, just a day after I sung the praises of Devin Harris and wondered how far the Nets could go, they crap the bed in a 20 point home loss to Washington. At least the Hawks can say they took care of business against the bad teams.

In other news, the long statewide wait is over. The runoff has concluded, which means… no more f-cking Saxby Chambliss and Jim Martin commercials every five minutes! Thank God for that. I am so sick and tired of seeing their mugs on TV during every commercial break.

By Hawks Fan 80

December 2, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Hey KIRKNGA, ya punk I got something for you and its from team captain Joe Johnson. So you sayin we is pimping Josh Smith and he aint all that, huh? This what Joe Johnson has to say about it.

“You’re talking about missing one of the leading shot-blockers in the league and probably the best athlete in the league,” Hawks captain Joe Johnson said. “That takes away from our versatility because he can play out on the perimeter and inside and he can put the ball on the floor and go to the basket and create for others, plus the rebounding and defense, that’s a huge loss.

“It’s going to take us a few games, but as we get him back, we should get things back on track.”

Thats a little bit more than jumping and dunking PUNK. I see Ray still hasnt engaged you directly and thought it was just a matter of time only but it looks like you have SAUTEE all riled up. You are like a wandering HO that just must find a pimp to slap you around. Doesnt matter what pimp, just a pimp.SAUTEE is the new pimp I see. Good luck you monkey azz punk.

My predictions for the week.

1. Josh Smith will record a double double against the Grizzlies if he plays more than twenty-five minutes. Best keep him in the game if you want to contend with the likes of Hakim Warrick and Darrell Arthur.

2. OJ Mayo will hit us for twenty-five or thirty points becasue Joe is hurt.

3. Bibby will score twenty-five against the team that drafted him though it was in Vancouver.

4. Ray will eventually jump on with Sautee and double pimp kirk. Aint seen no pimp on ho slappin like that since Rick James and Ike Turner were dating Tina at the same time.

Peace!

By richbrave

December 2, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

RAINING IN THE MEADOWLANDS:

Not cats and dogs mind you. Rather 3’s and assists. Wizards shoot an outstanding 51% from the floor. They scorch the NETS for 54% from three-point land. STEVENSON is unconscious beyond the stripe.

And what made the difference.? PASSES, crisp and on target from one side of the court to another, around the horn, inside to cutters. 33 ASSISTS result from the energized and UNSELFISH play of the team. Third time this year. When the “ZARDS play like this they are 3-0. When they don’t, 0-12. They did not exhibit that type of play against the HAWKS in either game.

By hawkfan

December 2, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe the Lakers lost to the pacers tonight, just makes me feel better about us losing to them at their home court, crazy, GO HAWKS!!!

By MannyT

December 2, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

rms I was very anti-Woody. Once he got that contract extension, I just decided to hope for better from him. I don’t see him as special, but he’s here and I’m not paying plane fare to have season tickets for another team.

However, you are quite right. It is amusing how Doc Rivers works hard not to wear out his key players during the season, while Woody tries to play JJ as if he’s a jug of milk with last week’s expiration date.

myk Looks like Crawford likes playing small ball out west. Shame for Anthony Morrow. Once Monta Ellis returns, he might be very available. Not that we need him, but trade talk is usually interesting.

Now that all the runoffs are done, the economy no longer benefits from the presence of politicians. Their commercials are over and Najeh approves this message…but now the money comes from the taxpayers…again.

BWAF

By mykhalc

December 2, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

MannyT, i was in ATL before the election and all i can say is the RED state mentality almost killed me!!! the one commercial about the guy that refused to expand his business if BARACK was elected was just IG’NANT!!! it made me very thankful to call SF home!!! WHEW!!! nightmare moment!!! (i ain’t hatin’ on the ATL folks, just the RED mentality in GA) gotta be clear!!LOL

anyway, MORROW is killin’ out here man!!! i’ve seen him go off in a couple of games so far!!! was he like that at GT???

By richbrave

December 2, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

BOBBY SIMMONS

JARVIS HAYES

DEVIN HARRIS

WIZARDS EXPATRIATES all.

By MannyT

December 3, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

mykhalc

Unfortunately, Morrow’s time at GaTech was not special. The non one year wonders don’t seem to gel as a team to take advantage of their experience at Tech. They are good, but it is tough to win consistently in college if you have a lottery pick who shows out for the NBA, but not so much in college.

For example, as good as Bosh is in the pros, he didn’t look as good at Tech. Same can be said for Morrow and Thad Young of the Sixers. Crittenden looked better in college, but he is buried at the end of the bench in the NBA.

As for the political thing, almost all politicians are annoying to me. It’s the nature of the job. However, this was the highlight of the political season for me. Kids actually learning to think about and discuss ideas.

richbrave don’t sweat it. The former Wiz all star team would include Rasheed Wallace and a healthy Chris Webber as well. At least that shows that they could draft talent. In the ATL, we were drafting random guys for years. More of an all who’s that team.

I know you really want to find Priest Lauderdale and sign him up to play center for the Wiz right now ;-)

BWAF

By mykhalc

December 3, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

MannyT, yeah that was a good video with the kids. here’s another not as creative but showin’ awareness none-the-less

By Najeh Davenpoop

December 3, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

Paul Hewitt’s system is not really one that allows individual players to shine statistically, particularly front court players. He runs more of a grind-it-out defensive style that takes advantage of forced turnovers to create fast break points and momentum. There’s not a whole lot of imagination in his offensive schemes — you could even say they are Woodson-esque. Great recruiter though. All that said, I don’t think Bosh and Young looked bad at Tech… I could tell Bosh and to a lesser extent Young had what it took to be an NBA all star, but if you just look at the stats it’s probably a lot harder to tell.

By MannyT

December 3, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

Najeh I didn’t mean to say those guys were bad by any stretch in college. At a higher, more talented level of basketball, they are clearly better as pros than they seemed to be as college players.

You bring up an interesting point about Hewitt and Woody. As a college coach, you are also your own GM so you can force a system on the players and still have some level of success. In the pros, you need more coaching flexibility because of your limited input on getting players.

mykhalc In this age of internet commerce, the ads around that video were longer than the main content.

oh well…NEW BLOG UP