Hawks

By Lacsho

November 24, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Nice article Sekou. Smoove was a steal for 58 mill. It’s evident he’s the heart and soul of this team. I posted this on the previous blog.

Good to be back from Jersey. My contract ended early. Hmmm what a difference two weeks makes. I was able to catch some of the games. Since Smoove has been out this team looks and plays different. Hopefully, we can get our swagger back, once Smoove returns. Woody has to do a better job with identifying a lackluster effort, and I think he needs to take chance by playing the bench longer minutes.

Ray

You said Acie will play better if he can get decent minutes off the bench. You were absolutely correct. I still have concerns about the way Woody plays Acie. Ray what do you think about Woody thus far?

I’m still not happy with Bibby’s performance. No matter what he does on offense, his defense still sucks. He’s a 15 million dollar liability. He can’t guard a point guard, and he’s to small to guard a shooting guard. Is it to early to start trade talk, or do we wait and see how the team responds once Smoove gets back. We need a veteran big man who can post a double double every night.

Marvin seems to be playing well. That left hand dunk against the cav’s was nice. However, I didn’t like JJ’s body language. I don’t know what’s going on with JJ, but I do know we need consistent play from him, and we need consistent play from the entire team. I still like my seat on the wagon. There’s going to be peaks and valley throughout the course of the season.

Ando

My condolences go out to you and your family. Man those tolls are off the chain. I know I spent 10 or 12 dollars on tolls. The Delaware toll is ridiculous.

Doc & Manny

What’s good fellows?

Banks & Najeh

I’m getting busy in our fantasy league. Looks like I have the number one spot. I don’t know how long that’s going to last, however; I’ll bask in the sunshine while I can.

Peace Hawks Fam!!!!

By rms

November 24, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

The Hawks have got to make a move sometime soon in a trade deal and get a big guy in the paint that can put up points down low and defend. I have said for a long time for them to steal Pryzbilla from the Blazers. Although thats highly unlikely but they need a 7-footer down low, not another 6-10 guy, along with J.Smith

By Kingofthe Ring

November 24, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

J Smoove, “The Gambler!” Man, that s#$* is sweet! I love that insight.”Patroling th baseline! I think us fans and people around the league w RESPECT Josh alot more once he comes back and them boys get back to attacking other teams. Can’t wait to get back on a roll!!

By doc

November 24, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

rms for the last time joel is happy where he is and has said he would retire before leaving the west coast and certainly before coming to atlanta. he has history here.

By ray

November 24, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Nice article, Sekou.

Lacsho,

Welcome back. Glad all went well and you made it back alright. I was pleased to see Acie producing the way he has when given some minutes (and some free reign). I think he can do even better, and on both ends of the floor. Sekou says we need somebody to do better on the opposing pgs for stretches of the game. While Mario is clearly a defensive bulldog, he is also somewhat foul prone at times and has trouble being anywhere near in rhythm on offense. Of course, more minutes cures that. But in the meantime, I say use Law.

One tactic that can be used effectively is putting pressure on the opposing defense while you’re on offense. That wears the other guys out on defense, and they have less energy on offense. Which, in turn, makes them easier to defend. Law can do this. Meanwhile, having turned the tables a bit, when Bibby comes back into the game, he will have better looks at the basket. Bibby scores more for us when he’s open, and is almost ineffective when he can’t get a clear look (seeing as how he rarely drives to the hole). It’s a good one-two punch if utilized correctly.

As for Woody….I just don’t know. I keep looking for signs of growth and change. He definitely uses his bench more, gotta give him credit for that. I’m still seeing a lot of motion-less offense though. The JJ ISO has now become the JJ and Bibby DUO. And it’s not much better. The other thing is that our team defense is up and down. We act like we want to play good team defense, but only in spurts. I know that not having Smoove hurts badly, but what do you do in the meantime? This is where the coach comes in…

By terrell barron

November 24, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Eddie Jordan is out in Washington. Who’s the next Coach Richbrave? Any idea? Any rumors?

By ray

November 24, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

“The other thing is, when you have a shot blocker back there, guys who aren’t great defenders but really put forth a lot of effort to play defense look a whole lot better. When that shot blocker isn’t there, those other guys can’t hide. I can’t lie, Smith drives me crazy. I’m not a gambler. But I promise you, if he played for us, we’d build the entire defensive scheme around him. He not only blocks shots but he intimidates guys. I was at a game last season when he had Boston so worried about where he was on defense that it kept them out of rhythm for the entire first half. There aren’t many guys in the league that can do that.”

That’s coming from an NBA scout that works for another team. Pimp that.

By ray

November 24, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Eddie’s gone? Wow. Can we hire him? Heh, heh, heh. Just said that to get a rise out of some people…

By MannyT

November 24, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

The Gambler Returns. I think that was a movie. Josh’s lack of predictability may be his biggest asset and danger. The NBA does not like unclear roles and talents. Even in bench guys, the NBA likes to put them into traditional roles (shooter, defensive stopper, energy guy, etc.) When players don’t fit in a psecified role, they get devalued—I think in part because teams are not sure how to best use them. (Josh would be an NBA example, Mike Vick would be an NFL example.) Hopefully he will be back next week. Al Horford seems to be savvy enough to figure out how to play defense with Josh.

Ando Condolensces on your Granny in law. Anyone who makes it into her 90s in Philly must have had a ton of spirit and toughness.

The what’s a Marvin worth question will be fun to play with during the season. I’ll skip the ASG angle on this because most times that I do, my post ends up in neverland. It’s still too early to figure out who will have more cap room in the summer. However, most teams are likel to be over the cap, so an offer starting above the mid level exception will be difficult for most other teams to match. I think the length of the deal will be a major point. Marvin has a very nice 1 yr tender at 7 Mil. If he continues to grow his game, that is a decent amount to play for as a brigde to unrestricted free agency. If I were MW right now, I probably would not want a deal longer than 3 years unless it was an offer that started above the tender number with annual raises. Taking a shorter deal likely gets him to a better economy and past the Lebron, Bosh, DWade sweepstakes. Not every team will win and someone will need a forward.

Lacsho welcome back. Hope you got to see some Nets games while in NJ.

ray et al With all the back to back games we have, it should be easy for Woody to get him more time. Even if he thinks of them like baseball double headers, Woody needs to get AC some time. I saw an article from another blog that questioned AC’s effeciveness when he plays with Flip. In part because Flip’s game is similar to what we see as AC’s most effective role…driving to the basket. Thus it might make sense to get AC more time on the 2nd night of back to backs while the older guys get a little more rest.

richbrave Now you know…who will be the first fall guy for the Wiz. Eddie Jordan got fired.

Sekou You need 2 small lapel buttons—one red, one green. When you have an answer to the same old question of the week, go green. If not wear red. For those that keep coming back to you, teach them to follow the traffic light button ;-)

You got to know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em…

BWAF

By PD

November 24, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Eddie Jordan got screwed!

By ant banks

November 24, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

sho nuff welcome back brotha!!! i wouldn’t get to happy wit’ that fantasy thing, we are about 1/4 thru the season. don’t sleep on a dark horse. im creepin on a come up.

By cp

November 24, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Good read. It’s always nice to know how outsiders feel about our players. Sometimes we are homers so its nice to read an unbiased opinion.

Honestly I wouldn’t mind Eddie’s offense. I’m shocked they fired him. Ill have to go read something about it. The injuries really have hurt the Wizards. I think the Haywood injury hurts more than the Arenas one. They played better without Gilbert last year. Tell Eddie to send us his offensive playbook.

By BA

November 24, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

This IS a good article from Sekou Smith, and a more articulate version of what I was trying to say last night about Smith. Don’t know about the classification as a “gambler”, though- it’s only a gamble if it doesn’t always work- and with Smith, it almost always works (in regards to the blocks) and he DOES get in people’s heads, he’d get in your head too if he shamed you with one of his signature blocks.

Ray, you make a good point about Mario/Acie. I like West, but it’s got to be Law- and he played solid perimeter D Saturday night, but I don’t think people noticed that as he was driving to the hole and rebounding like a poor man’s Jason Kidd. But he can push the issue with the ball- I hope the next time they call his number that he can go right back at it with those fast breaks.

This kid (Law) is the key to continuity for the Hawks in the coming years. Bibby was (and is) a really nice band-aid for this young team. But they need Law to step up and show that he’s starter material, or else they have to resign Bibby (which would make it really hard to keep our core of Johnson/Smith/Williams/Horford together for the long term) or use another high draft pick on a point guard when we clearly need defensive help down low.

Eddie Jordan seems like a good coach to me. It wasn’t his fault Agent Zero can’t stay healthy. Carlisemo had it coming- but the Jordan move (even with their paltry won/loss) somewhat suprises me.

By ant banks

November 24, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

please do not bring josh back until december!! we are 8-5 in november and can end up 11-5 at best or 8-8 at worst.

let josh heal all the way up, because december is goin’ to be helluva. continue lettin’ solo, law and other bench players time so that we will be ready when josh does return.

what is the rush to bring josh back? we are strugglin’ but we are okay

By doc

November 24, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

glad two of my blog buddies are back in town safely.

By Eternal Optimist

November 24, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Man, the Hawks really looked bad without Josh in the middle. We seem like we’re playing with cement in our shoes on both ends of the floor. Joe has no lift in his shots, no bounce when he’s going to the rim. In my opinion we really need to give Acie as many minutes as possible. He has the quickness to breakdown defenders and get in the paint. It seems like Bibby has lost that. He get’s abused against younger point guards and his game seems to be all perimeter at this stage in his career. Lastly, Sekou if you got any pull whisper in Woodys ear “play your bench man, play your bench”!!!!!

By ILL-logical

November 24, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Leadership is the biggest issue for the Hawks right now, while many do not have a high opinion of Josh’s character/ court judgement ,there is no denying his impact on the team’s energy by virtue of his actions.Prehaps with a different caoch and more maturity , a vocal leadership style could be added to his mix.

The comments quoted by SS in this blog are a clear signal on both his part and others that a change is neede in order for theis team to achieve what it is fully capable of.

No one inside or outside of the organization is ina panic,yet. however, there is no denying that this the opportunity to seize the time and achieve great things both on and off the court.

To paraphrase a great individual: Yes We Can!

By Acie Law

November 24, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, any insight on why I can’t get on the floor before the game’s already been decided? I mean, I can front the opposing PG at half court and make it more difficult for opponents from getting in their offensive sets. Bibby can’t apply that kind of pressure because he gets beat off the dribble to easily. Don’t you think I could help the defense too?

By richbrave

November 24, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

For real.? The best part of the team is out.? You’veGotToBeS’nMe. This is a result of POLLIN’s brain-dead decision with JAMISON and ARENAS this summer. Completely eviscerated the coach’s position. When NICK YOUNG goes to GILBO instead of EDDIE as he leaves the court, its TIME to make GILBERT the coach. Jeeze.

I think JORDAN to be the best coach the WIZARDS have had in nearly two decades although I have never completely agreed with the “PRINCETON” offensive philospohy in the NBA. Its seems that scheme relies extensively on accurate shooting, mainly from the outside to loosen up the defense. Mine is build a strong team from the defensive side and start on the base-line as I posted earlier today.

“send us eddie’s offensive playbook”:

Better yet send EDDIE. I think the HAWKS well suited to his “PRINCETON” style of offense since they do play base-line defense.

Have no idea as to GRUNFELD’s pending decision/replacement. Can’t use MIKE O’KOREN or others currently on the staff. I’m sure EDDIE’s contract extension will be bought out. Wouldn’t surprise me if JORDAN didn’t ASK out. The situation really was intolerable for EDDIE.

I know a few I’d like to see coach here. GREG POPOVICH or JERRY SLONE come immediately to mind. Of course, that means GILBERT becomes a ghost.

The question is more who is WILLING to come into a slot where the players not only influence events off the court, but actively try to run the team on it. You can’t have any type of authority under those circumstances.

Personally I wouldn’t touch it with a ten-foot pole. This all goes back to POLLIN, and the actions he has taken recently. Sorry fella’s. Have to wait for GRUNFELD to speak.

By Astro Joe

November 24, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Ando, my condolensces for your family’s loss, especially so close to the holidays.

Needless to say, I’d LOVE to have Eddie Jordan as our “offensive coordinator” next season. I’m convinced this team would excel running that type of offensive scheme.

And he was NOT screwed. Obviously a coach doesn’t get fired for one game but I thought he coached horribly against us last week. How do you look across the court and see our lack of interior defenders and decide to play a line-up of mostly small guys? I think we out-rebounded them by double digits and had about 10+ more free throw attempts. How does a coach allow that to happen against small front-line? And don’t give me the Haywood excuse, he still had about 5-6 guys 6’10” or taller to play that evening.

And Paul Westhead would be another great hire. Talk about a fast break guru… let him have this squad for a few weeks and see what our uptempo game looks like.

By Ken Strickland

November 24, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

RMS-listen to what DOC is saying. I’m certain there are several regulars that remember when I consistently made a big issue of us going after Pryzbilla afer Portland drafted Oden. I too was reminded of his disdane for the Hawks after being traded by BK, even though he performed well while here.

I’ve also come to realiz that Bibby’s importance and impact on this yrs team is a bit overrated. His 3pt shooting is not enough to overcome his other shotrcomings, expecially his obvious DEF liabilities. Acie’s impact on our attempted comeback against Cleveland was the result of his DEF efforts as much as his OFF efforts.

Let’s face it, we would be a much better team, both OFF/DEF, especially DEF, with Acie as the starter. Murray, Evans, JJ, Marvin, and even Smoove, can provide all of the 3pt shooting we need. Acie’s slashing, penetrating ability will make better scorers out of strong inside finishers like Solo, Hunter, Morris, Smoove and Horford.

If you think back to last yrs playoff series, there were 2 Hawks the Celtics couldn’t stop, and Bibby wasn’t one of them. They were JJ and Acie. Rhondo and Posey completely took Bibby out of his gm and made him a shakey ball handler and shooter. Acie left both of them standing in their tracks when they tried to defend him.

Acie’s speed, quickness and penetrating ability would give the Hawks the same type of OFF advantage the Spurs have hsd with PG Tony Parker. Parker and Acie’s type of OFF/DEF talents seldom lends itself to inconsistency, unlike Bibby’s outside shooting often does. Ando, myself and others, have stated we think Bibby will likely be traded by the deadline. However, we must take into consideration the influence Woodson has with Sund. We know Woody would prefer Bibby, a veteran PG and DEF liability, over Acie, a less experienced PG that’s a DEF asset.

IT APPEARS WOODSON FEELS THE MORE EXPERIENCED HIS PLAYERS ARE, DESPITE THEIR SHORTCOMINGS, THE LESS IS REQUIRED OF HIM FROM A COACHING PERSPECTIVE, ESPECIALLY UNDER GAME CONDITIONS.

By Samuel

November 24, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Acie Law has proven he can take over: Summer League, Pre-season and “Garbage Time”. He has been given plenty of opportunities when it counts and laid multiple goose eggs.

We’ll be fine once Josh returns. Let him heal so that he can be 100% and we can pick up where we left off when he went down.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 24, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

LOVED this blog post. That scout said exactly what I’ve always thought about Josh. I agree with what MannyT says too — players like Josh Smith and Michael Vick who don’t fit into a predetermined role get poorly utilized and you never end up seeing what they can really do… particularly when they have average to below average coaches. Now Woodson is nowhere near as horrendous or stifling to Josh Smith’s development as the Jim Mora regime was to Vick’s development, but both situations have something in common.

Co-sign the rest of y’all about Eddie Jordan too. Not only do I think he would be great for the Hawks’ personnel, I think he would work wonders for Acie Law’s development too, having coached Jason Kidd previously in New Jersey.

By ray

November 24, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

While it would be great to pull the trigger and make Acie the starter, is that the wisest choice at the moment? I say give him several more games (10-15) at 20+ minutes per and see what he does with that first. Then we’ll have an idea of just how consistent he can be. And it’s not so much about what kind of numbers he puts up as it is the effect he has. I wouldn’t expect him to put up 20 points, 5 boards, and 6 dimes every time. But if he’s pushing the ball, staying quick and solid on defense, driving to the hole, and getting his teammates involved, the numbers will mostly be there. The key is to find out if he can be consistent with his game. If he plays like he did in the preseason, it’s a go, in my opinion. If he only has a handful of good games out of the 15 or so, then it’s back to the drawing board.

We keep saying he’s not ready, but he has not often had the chance this season to prove to us either way. He has to consistently get the minutes first, which means Woody just has to give them to him, regardless of how he plays. The man has a brand new 2 year contract, and there’s no reason why he should shorten the rotation or withhold playing time, particularly if a guy has a good attitude. Woody just needs to do it.

If his mentor can do it with a rookie pg up in Charlotte, he can do it with a sophomore. Simple as that.

BA, the key word you used is “bandaid”…oddly enough the very same word I used in a conversation with Ando a few months back. That’s exactly what the deal is right now. I don’t see us re-signing Bibby even if Law turns out not to be the long-term answer. I think the cost alone would be a deterrent. That, and his shortcomings. Look at the east and tell me what you see. One quicker, stronger, faster pg after another…..We decided to go with an undersized center. So be it. But the other “pivotal” spot? Has to be manned by a guy that can keep up with the Joneses so to speak. Teams in the East with consistently strong pg play: Chicago, New Jersey, Philly, Toronto, Charlotte, Detroit, Indiana, and Boston. Solid arguments can be made for Milwaukee and New York.

A lot of work gets done in the paint. But it all starts at the point. We have to figure it out.

By lex luther

November 24, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Sekou, one question. If you were the GM for the Hawks, would Za Slop Pachuilla be on your squad? The quy is garbage. He should never touch the ball on offense. NEVER!! Are good big ball players that hard to find? Your point,,the KG thing, okay, 18 rebounds in one game,,,okay but look at this guy overall effect on this team. Give me a break. You got anything better?? I’m waiting.

By ant.b

November 24, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

When are we going to see that j.smith is not the answer , Yes he can block shot , But we need a REAL CENTER in there who will knock some body DOWN , NO team is scared to come to the hole on atl.

By lex luther

November 24, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Sekou!!!!! I’m still waiting!!!

By ray

November 24, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Really, Sam? And what opportunities would those be?

You want to clown the man by saying he he took over in summer league, preseason, and garbage time, but out of the other side of your mouth, you say he has thrown up goose eggs when given opportunties that count.

In the words of Samuel L. Jackson: “Well allow me to retort.”

One, those summer league and preseason games where he was “taking over”? He excelled in all of them. So it would seem to me that he did what was asked of him and then some, with the opportunities he was given.

Two, let me run some stats by you. In the 13 games we have played, Acie has thrown up three of your goose eggs. In one of those games, he received no playing time. In the other two, he received 6 minutes and 8 minutes, respectively. Wow, that averages out to 7 minutes a game. In both of those games, he took only one shot, which he missed. There’s your goose eggs.

Here are some more stats: Acie is averaging 11.5 minutes a game. What do you expect him to do, exactly? Get 10 points and 5 assists per? What do you suppose Bibby would do with that kind of playing time? Hell, he’d have to heave a half dozen shots just so we’d know he was there. Oh, and another stat for ya: Despite all this, Acie averages 2 assists and less than half of a turnover per game. Had enough of stats? Too bad. Here’s more. Number of games Acie has started: 0. Number of times he’s played more than 12 or 13 minutes per game: 2.

One time he’s had 20 minutes or more in the regular season and I think we all know what he did then (against Cleveland). For once, he wasn’t given the ball in garbage time, he was given the ball after we were down 25 or so points with a lot of time left to play, and he brought us back to within a respectable and reachable deficity of about 12 points. If it weren’t for a bad call (the offensive foul on him where he should’ve had an “AND 1” call instead), and a couple of bad plays by other guys on the other end…we might have made it a close one, thanks to him and Evans.

Bibby and Acie, nearly the same amount of minutes played. Tough defense by Cleveland on the perimeter. Tell me which guys showed up. I know who got to the line 10 times, and who never got there at all. I know who stayed in front of his opponent on defense and who didn’t. I know which one looked like a starter, and which one looked like a reserve.

Again, I’m not saying start the guy already, I’m just saying give him real minutes. Then at least he can prove that he’s for real, or he’s not.

One Mo’ stat for ya while I’m still fired up. Acie gets over 32 minutes per game, while Law gets roughly a third of that at 11.5 minutes per game. Bibby has played in and started all 13 games. Law has started no games, and has played in 12. And yet….both players have been to the free throw line the exact same number of times: 21. Huh. Now what does that tell you….

By Astro Joe

November 24, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

I agree with Samuel, we need to see Acie show and prove during some meaningful minutes of a game and not just as a change of pace type of guy who helps pre-determined blow-outs look a bit more palatable. Of course, if Flip continues to shoot less then 30%, then Woody may be more willing to let Acie get some extended minutes earlier in a contested game. But right now, I don’t see how we do anything but “play the hot PG hand” across Bibby, Law and Flip.

Darn, Sekou, will Terrell Brandon be healthy before Speedy? It sure seems like Smith will be back first. WTF?

By Samuel

November 24, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

All that being said, we were still 6-0 when we were full strength and sitting in the 4 spot despite a brutal schedule and multiple Tweaks Ray, Acie is not going to be on the floor, “regardless of how he plays”. We are in a playoff hunt, the Bobcats’ season is for all intents and purposes, over, already.

When Josh returns and we’re full strength the “undersized” frontcourt we be fine just like they were against 7 footers like: Dalembert, Noah,Howard, Bosh, J Oneil, Chandler, Garnett and anybody else. If GOD FORBID he’s not able to recover 100%, then we may look at bringing in help but until then. Don’t fret, we have proven what we are capable of when at full strength.

By ray

November 24, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Ant, actually they are afraid to come to the hole, because they don’t know what angle Josh is coming from. Didn’t the scout say as much? However, I can’t say too much about the effect of a big, talented, mobile center. Let me know when and how we can get ahold of one of those. Better yet, let management know….

One other thing. That’s still not the answer to all of the problems, as Sekou says. Defense starts at the point of attack. That would be the pg position, as ball pressure is what causes turnovers. Turnovers are a change of possession. Blocked shots are never a guarantee of a change of possession. Considering that, what is the difference between a center blocking a shot and a forward blocking a shot? If Josh gets us 3 blocks a game, and we go and get a center to do the same thing, what have we done? What if the center doesn’t block as many shots? Are we better or worse?

By the way, if we just need somebody in there to knock people down, then we can get Lo Wright or John Edwards back. Oh, and Detroit has been top 2 in the East for several years now without that real knockdown center. It’s all in the formula, though like you I’d be happy with a big center. But we sure went 6-0 without one, didn’t we?

MannyT, I’ll second Najeh on your post. Excellently written, I have to agree with everything.

Najeh,

I hate talking about Vick after being on the Falcons blog so many times, but do have this to say: I don’t know who would be worse for Vick….Mora or Petrino. Petrino didn’t hang around long enough to show me whether he could be better or not. He was a quitter anyway, so I guess the answer is “worse.”

By mike

November 24, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

when is josh smith coming back?

By richbrave

November 24, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

‘Stro JOE:

“GUYS” are not necessarily playas’. Take a good look at the options.

‘DRE BLATCHE - at 6’ 10” so-so at center, and he did play fairly well against the HAWKS, but at PF. Inconsistant. Not as good so far this year as last.

ETAN THOMAS 6’ 10” returning from open-heart surgery. A PF not a C. Are you kidding. He’s a MAN just by stepping on the court, but a months away from his best play which always was uneven.

DARIUS SONGAILA, too small at 6 9” to play center although he often does. A good player just overmatched at the 5.

OLEKSI PETCHEROV at 7”0” - too raw to be effective at the 5 in just his second year in the NBA. Too slow and unaware at this point to play effectively. HAWKS ran circles around him whenever he was on base-line defense.

JaVALE McGEE 7”0” A ROOKIE in just his sixth game against the HAWKS. Going to be an above average to great player inside, but not now.

ANTAWN JAMISON - 6”9”. Plays well on offense, but was held at the end of the game and couldn’t fight through the traffic. A defensive liability at times.

The best players are JAMISON, BUTLER, DANIELS, STEVENSON, YOUNG - short.

And the HAWKS didn’t exactly blow the WIZARDS drawers off. You all said they played poorly against the ‘Zards. Maybe coaching had something to do with the game NOT being a blow-out for the hometeam.

Sorry JOE. I’ve followed the D.C. team since the seventies. I believe JORDAN is in the top four coaches they’ve had during that span of time. Of course, there’s always GAR HEARD or BERNIE BICKERSTAFF if you don’t like him. But I have no problem being his apologist.

By MannyT

November 24, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

I have always appreciated guys who did not fit the norm—like, triple threat Oscar Robertson, point forward Paul Pressey, the tenacious rebounding Fat Lever and more famous guys like little big man Barkley and the mammoth PG-Magic.

If you can get over the mental stress, that’s what makes ‘Sheed so special. He can play outside like a Eurodude and inside like a traditional big.

Oddly that was a part of my appreciation for BK. It looked like he was trying to create the pro version of the late 80s Illinois team with Kendall Gill where almost all those guys were the same height. They went a long way with a big back court and a small frount court.

Ken Remember Woody’s coach (the other BK) rarely used time outs at the end of close games. His thought was that his guys knew enough from practice to execute the end game without giving the other team a chance to set a defense. Maybe Woody prefers those experienced guys so he doesn’t have to think up something useful at the end of a game. I suspect he is a better coach in practice than in games.

Lex No kryptonite for you in the Zaza discussion. Good big men are expensive and take awhile to develop. Most average ones are good on defense OR offense. We pulled him from Milwaukee when he was a backup and made him our starter for big man backup money. He does a decent job. He has been playing hurt lately. He’s got at least as much of an offensive game as Solo or RandMo. He bangs more than RandMo and has more bulk than everyone else on the squad. Aside from rookies drafted this year (as we had no picks) who would you replace him with for similar money? Keep in mind that Zaza is 24. He still has some upside potential.

BWAF

By Clyde

November 24, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Eddie Jordan is just what the Hawks need right now.

He did a real good job at Washington without Agent 0. Lets hurry up and fire Woody so he can move in.

ROLL TIDE!!!

NOBODY IS GIVING US A CHANCE AGAINST FLORIDA BUT REMEMBER THIS: FLORIDA LOST OLE MISS BUT WE BEAT THEM.

By MannyT

November 24, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

richbrave sometimes I wonder if Eddie Jordan got the college rival treatment. You can use the slow start as an excuse, but maybe it had more to do with losing to the same team in the playoffs every year. He got LeBroned!

Let RichRod have that same sorry 3-9 at Michigan next year and he’s probably gone unless one of the three wins is Ohio State.

Just make sure they don’t bring Unseld back to the bench. I’ve been a fan of the team for a long time, but Dick Motta & Gene Shue are not coming back to save Abe. He needs to look in a new direction if his interim coach does not work out.

BWAF

By AtlSouthside

November 24, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

We need to cut Zack Randolph or whatever his name is… The kid is garbage.

I’m loving Marvin Williams right now, he is the most improved player this year, and he deserves his prop’s…

Bibby’s shot is back.

And I love when Jo-Jo drives to the hole with the ball cuffed like MJ.

By Sautee

November 24, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Samuel

about this:

Acie is not going to be on the floor, “regardless of how he plays”

If you are right about that, then Woodson is NOT the coach you think he is.

By cp

November 24, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Like I said earlier, send us Jordan’s offensive playbook. If he decided he wanted to come along with his book then I would not have a problem with that either.

As far as Acie goes. It’s hard to show just what you can do when you get inconsistent minutes. Playing him with Flip is also a mistake. Flip dominates the ball. Acie usually just gives it to him and runs to a corner. The only way Acie will get more minutes is if Flip gets hurt. Regardless of how poor FLip plays Woody will not sit him. He prefers vets so Law is in a tough situation.

When I brought up Haywood I was referring to the impact he has last season. He had a good year. He did not have to worry about Eton Thomas fighting him for minutes. The only legit big man the Wizards have in my opinion is the rookie. Eton has no offensive game and is returning from heart surgery so I know he is not in top shape. The other so called bigs they have are very perimeter oriented. They like to shoot jumpers instead of banging in the paint and are not very good defenders. I think they will improve when Haywood returns.

By rms

November 24, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

doc, thanks for refreshing my dull memory as I was fantasizing having a 7-footer on our team. Woulda been nice though!!

By doc

November 24, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

yes rms, it would be but the search/fantasy will have to continue elsewhere. funny every year joel’s name surfaces as a plausible steal. just aint happnin. we already had our chance at him and for some reason with no bigs he was cast aside. need to ask the cfo of the owners why i guess .. forgot, think he was fired last year too.

By The Flash

November 24, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

The thing that killed the Zards was letting Roger Mason go and resigning Gilbert. The first was unforgiveable and is the cause of their current problems being so bad. I doubt that that was Edie’s choice but do not know. Roger Mason is and will always be a vastly superior, vastly more versatile, and vastly more valuable player than the second year4 kid out of SoCal.

Mason could play the point really well and knows the difference between a good shot and one that is not worth taking. Nick Young does not, and he cannot run a team. Mason was the smartest player on the team, and melded extremely well with everyone. A person with gravitas.

Gilbert is a 2 guard in the Iverson mold without the defense. I liked last year’s team better than the teams with Gilbert on them, but, hey, like everyone, when the man was on, it was thrillin watching him, I mean I don’t know that there was anyone worth watchin more. So, I guess you had to keep him, but he puts a ceiling on how far a team can go.

JS should sit for as long as he can, and then longer still. Coming back too early on an ankle is the most common thing in all of sports and the subtlely most costly. Let it really heal JS, and then take the time to balance out your body; as a matter of fact, you should be working on that daily now.

You go out there skying on an ankle that is still sore if you use it correctly and you won’t, use it correctly that is. So, you’re entire body will adjust to a whacked use of your ankle, which for anyone can’t be good. For a high-flyer like you, it is only amplified. Just ask Barry Krammer. Sorry guys, ask Doc; he’s the only one of you who is old enough to possibly get the reference, NYU ‘62-63. Just telling it like it is Doc, heh, heh, heh.

By The Truth

November 24, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

If I was a betting man, I would bet that the reason Woody downplays AC to Bibby has a lot to do with JJ’s preference to keep Bibby. I remember JJ has made numerous positive comments about Bibby impact to the team and he has publicly hinted his disapproval if he leaves. According to JJ, Bibby’s impact to the team is his veteran leadership. I got the impression that JJ would be upset if Bibby was replace by AC in that role. Maybe (just Maybe), Woody is trying not to rock the boat by keeping JJ happy. If this is true, he would be doing it at the expense of AC’s development. Just to reinforce this point, remember when JJ made favorable comments about Woody during the time when BK wanted to fire him. JJ publicly said that Woody was a major factor in him coming to ATL. After those comments were made, BK resign and Woody got a 2 yr contract. That 2 yr contract just happened to match the end of JJ’s contract. That would mean that Woody success is tied to JJ success. If Management decides not to renew Woody’s contract, they would concede losing JJ to another team based on his comments.

By richbrave

November 24, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

cp:

I’ve said those very things myself. BTW HAYWOOD is probably lost for the season. HAYWOOD and McGEE are the ONLY centers on the team, and therein lies their problem. JORDAN is the first step toward a remake in my opinion. Next year, I say keep HAYWOOD (30), SONGAILA (31), and BUTLER (29) from the old group, YOUNG (24), McGEE (21), McGUIRE (24), and BLATCHE (23) from the newbies, grab a top three inside player in the draft and start over. Of course there will be JAMISON and PETCHEROV inside and STEVENSON, ARENAS, DANIELS, BROWN and DIXON outside, but I would weed them out as capable replacements can be found over a three or four year period. Missing from that group is ROGER MASON JR. The hole he has left is huge and largely discounted. Why, with all that money thrown around, he wasn’t resigned is a mystery to me. JUAN DIXON is not an adequate substitute.

By richbrave

November 24, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

FLASH:

Props on the ROGER MASON JR. take. Saw your post AFTER I had answered cp. But you’re right on in my book.

By Ken Strickland

November 24, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

Here’s what puzzles me. First, some of you were blowing up the blogs wanting to get rid of Marvin because you considered him a bust. There were also some who felt the same way about Solo and criticized his decision not to participate in this yrs summer league. Now, after seeing the results of making hasty assumtions, we’re hearing the same negative attitudes towards Acie.

Consider this. Joe Dumars, the NBA’a top GM, traded CBillups, an AllStar PG, with the intention of turning a multiple NBA championship team over to Rodney Stuckey, an undrafted PG. It’s not like Stuckey dominated anybody’s Summer league or preseason to prove he has the talent to successfully take over the Pistions. Acie has done both, and like Woodson, you still want to hold on to Bibby and his DEF libialities, inability to penetrate, breakdown DEF’s, dish and/or draw fouls.

There have been a number of comments about our poor interior DEF. Well, part of the reason for that is Bibby’s inability to stop the penetration of opposing PG’s, which puts added pressure on our interior DEF. The absense of Smoove’s shotblocking to clean up the mess have made it more or an issue. Zaza isn’t a shotblocker and suffers when PG’s are able to get in the lane. Horford has been consistently getting into foul trouble for the same reason, although his blocked shots has improved.

The most impressive thing about Acie to me is how well he’s starting to perform and how well he’s handled Woodson’s attitute and approach towards him. Salim seemed to have been unable to overcome Woodson’s negative approach towards him. The question now isn’t whether Acie can duplicate his performance against Cleveland, but will Woodson give him an opportunity anytime soon.

By darrell starks

November 24, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

Woody must learn to establish a nice rotation. starting five BIBBY AT POINT, JOE BIG GUARD,MARVIN SMALLFORD,HORFORD POWER FORD, ZAZA AT CENTER,BENCH LAW AT POINT, FLIP BIG GUARD,EVANS SMALL FORD, SOLO POWER FORD, RANDOLPH AT CENTER

By doc

November 24, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

sing to the choir flash, agree on letting josh sit until he has rehabbed it completely.

enjoy seeing woody have to squirm as acie plays up to his expectation. not one to bet, anyone want to bet one of the issues woody and bk had was because of this young player and how he was “developed’? some day the basg is going to realize how much money they have blown on his overall game.

By The Truth

November 24, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Ken The wild card in the discussion as to weather Acie see more playing from Woody is SUND. We really don’t know his management style. What is his relationship with Woody. How much input and influence is he imposing on Woody regarding Acie playing status. If there is a future acquistion plan, how is that influencing Woody rotation. Or, as I stated, is it just politics trying to appease JJ.

By richbrave

November 24, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

The interim coach is ED TAPSCOTT, player development director. Probably the best choice not on JORDAN’s staff. Familiar with all facets of the WIZARDS operation, but never a head coach. Basically a suit. First quote. “I’m not gonna’ take greyhounds and make them into Clydesdales.” Run and fun folks. Kinda’ like the run and gun football idea, I guess. MAYBE he has a clue. We’ll see tomorrow night at the phone-booth.

Somehow, I see AGENT ZERO’s influence here. Hell, he was telling the newbies how to play anyway. NICK YOUNG’s game has certainly deteriorated this year. Maybe he ought to tell GILBERT to shut-up.

A nice fellow by all accounts, TAPSCOTT doesn’t give the appearance of getting in the way, at least not initially. And with no head-coaching experience, I expect to see him taking pointers from ARENAS in the time-outs while JAMISON and BUTLER play their two man game. Its the nineties all over again. Like the HAWKS, the WIZARDS will have to wander at the bottom of the league for three or four years until some new talent arises.

By richbrave

November 24, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

MANNY T;

Forgive the lack of acknowledgement man. I’m juiced as a geezerette can be over this latest WIZARDS development. Thank Goodness the HAWKS have taken their wings just in time. GO HAWKS.

By Sautee

November 24, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

I think I’d rather have a power Chevy.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 24, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

“I hate talking about Vick after being on the Falcons blog so many times, but do have this to say: I don’t know who would be worse for Vick….Mora or Petrino. Petrino didn’t hang around long enough to show me whether he could be better or not. He was a quitter anyway, so I guess the answer is “worse.””

I am no fan of the weasel Petrino, but I don’t think it’s possible to be a worse coach than Jim Mora. The Seahawks tabbing him to succeed Mike Holmgren is like if Canada called up George W. Bush and asked him to be their president.

By richbrave

November 24, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

NAJEH DAVENPOOP:

Laugh out loud ND. You made me howl. Thank goodness there will never be BUSH for PRESIDENT signs sprouting again in my neighborhood. And if another BUSH becomes President-elect I’ll head for a warmer clime. Se abla espanol?

By blue hawk

November 24, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

mario west can be used as a “point guard” so that we can have a bulldog at times during games.

he played some point in college. all he has to do is to safely bring the ball up court and then pass it off to Joe. just like how things work in portland with brandon roy. let mario take care of the ball handling duties and then let joe take care of the playmaking (he’s been doing it anyway).

what this would give us would be to have mario harrass the opponents PG to throw them off and out of rhythm, preventing them from running their plays. he doesn’t have to do this the whole game, just be useful during some stretches.

don’t know if he can shoot though but i’m sure he’ll be an effective transition/fast break player and maybe he can even develop into a penetrator. the guy won a slam dunk contest in college so he has more than enough athleticism to do these things.

By reese

November 24, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

Do we need Josh Smith back now? Yes! However, more importantly, we need for other players to develop team defensive concepts while he is out. We need for Woodson/coaches to develop, teach, play and coach his big men during his absence.

How quickly people forget how this team struggled without a talented veteran point guard before Bibby arrived. Face it, Bibby is the shooting point guard that this team needs and plays good team defense. Additionally, he is calm under stressful situations, has the respect of the refs, compliments Joe Johnson and can run the team.

Yes, Bibby has trouble guarding quicker point guards. However, the problem is not solely Bibby. The problem is poor team defense and lack of alternating different defensive schemes to stop whomever is penetrating on the other team. Remember, Indiana’s Granger, Boston’s Pierce and New Jersey’s Vince Carter were just as effective penetrating or hitting outside shots as the point guards.

When the guards or small forwards were not easily getting by Joe Johnson or Marvin Williams, the big men were easily shooting over the smaller Al Horford. They went around, were grabbed or just shot over Zaza and Marvin is just too small and un-athletic to cover power forwards and is slow at rotating to help others. Although, he did make some attempts to try.

Yes, AC is better at guarding point guards 1 on 1 and deserves more playing time. However,this can be accomplished by reducing Joe’s minutes and playing flip at the shooting guard position.

To sum things up, Woodson needs to play his starters shorter minutes. He needs to work with his coaches to devise and teach defensive schemes that will utilize team defense to stop the penetration of other team’s guards and small forwards. Additionally, he needs to play his true big men in power forward and center positions together when other teams big men are dominating inside. Marvin and Evans can rotate in the small forward slot and must assist the big men with rebounding, shot blocking/altering, steals and taking charges.

By gypsyjoe

November 24, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

I think that all the people that says that we need a true 7 foot center to clog the key. Last time I checked 7 foot centers are not a dime a dozen. To get a stud 7 footer you need to give up alot. Why not give Morris a chance or how about that guy Chris Alexander from the D-league he is 7 feet tall 265 pounds. he at least can knock the hell out of people driving to the hoop. What to you guys think?? GO Hawks

By ant banks

November 24, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

ken i hear you about the acie thing and solo. i even hear you all about the randmo gettin’ time. its like this, when you finally get in there you have to b ballin’ like it ain’t no tomorrow.

take the previous blog about hallie vs vivica. if i ever had the chance with her, i would have to show out to increase the odds of me gettin’ back in, frequently. that’s what randmo, solo, and acie gotta do when they finally get in there. however, when these guys get in there they perform like you do with the wife of 25+ years, go thru the motions…

By ray

November 24, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Najeh,

Okay, I’ll say it with you: Mora was an idiot of global proportions. Feel better?

Samuel,

I have no doubts Josh Smith will make it back to 100% if he heals properly and in the right time frame. The kid is young and tough.

As for Acie, are you telling me that no matter what he does, he’s nailed to the bench to play nothing more than crap minutes? That’s a brilliant plan to develop a young pg. Absolutely brilliant. Woody should be teaching guys like Byron Scott, Jerry Sloan, and Rudy Tomjanovich. After all, they sure as hell don’t know how to develop young pgs.

By the way, I think I was fairly clear in my 4:34 p.m. post that we went 6-0 without a big center. When Josh comes back, of course we’ll be fine again. So what are we going to do in the meantime?

Astro Joe,

You agree with Samuel? On what? Sam says Acie is not going to get on the floor regardless of how he plays. You are saying that we need to see Acie playing during meaningful minutes of the game. I must be missing something here. How that is even the same thought is beyond me.

So, how do we determine what minutes are “meaningful” and which are not? Surely it must be the 3 or 4 minutes a reserve plays in the first and second quarters. Well, that’s 6 or 8 minutes in the first half. And if you’re averaging 11.5 per game, then you only have another 5.5 or 3.5 to play in the second half. I guess anybody could step on the court and do wonders with that. Oh, I really want to hear some further opinion on this….

I just love it. You want the man to perform when it counts, but you don’t want to give him the playing time. Then, the one time he gets actual decent playing time and performs, it’s instantly devalued and dismissed because it didn’t happen at the right time. Well maybe the brilliant coach should’ve though of this worthless “change of pace” idea before we started getting blown out…

By ray

November 24, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

Reese,

We would be remiss to blame all the perimeter defense on Bibby.

One more thing on the game against Cleveland. We were down 68-42 with about 5 and a half minutes left to play in the third quarter when Acie started doing his thing. He pulled us to within 12 points with over 6 minutes left to play. Oddly enough, we hadn’t been that close since there was three minutes left in the first quarter.

That’s nearly a quarter and a half to play, so if you’re going to call that garbage time, then go ahead. Sure hope none of our players or coaches think like that.

By reese

November 24, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

Ray, I’d have to say that Woodson did think that is was garbage time because he has not demonstrated he trust playing AC in a routine that would provide him quality minutes.

Plus, when he does give AC minutes, he plays him on the wing and not as the main ball distributor.

Also, AC does not compliment Joe Johnson as well as bibby or flip. I do not believe that Joe wants to play an uptempo game. I think that he is more comfortable in the half court game.

Joe will say that they need to play uptempo, but he means that Josh, Mo, Flip Al and AC need to play uptempo. Joe does not fill lanes, dribble penetrate or increase the pace of the game via fast breaks. He is comfortable with fading out behind the 3 point line on fast breaks or throwing the ball ahead to someone else.

So for AC to get increased minutes, I believe he will have to establish relationships with the 2nd string players who better compliment his skills and pace. Which will be difficult because Joe plays so many minutes, Mike would rather play Flip as the point, good teams pack the paint when AC comes into the game and AC has not demonstrated that he can consistently hit the outside shot or consistently complete a pass to an open teammate when he forces his dribble in the lane.

By Samuel

November 25, 2008 5:15 AM | Link to this

Ray and Sautee,

Check Ray’s 3:49 post. It was he that said that Woody should play Acie “Regardless of how he plays”.

By ray

November 24, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

We keep saying he’s not ready, but he has not often had the chance this season to prove to us either way. He has to consistently get the minutes first, which means Woody just has to give them to him, regardless of how he plays. The man has a brand new 2 year contract, and there’s no reason why he should shorten the rotation or withhold playing time, particularly if a guy has a good attitude. Woody just needs to do it.

Ray, is that you or a cop impersonator? Isn’t that a felony?

I’m saying that Acie has gotten plenty of opportunities, during meaningful streatches and didn’t get the job done. That’s why his minutes are where they are. Woody and everybody else wants to win. If Acie produces, when it counts, he get minutes. Plain and simple.

I can’t believe some of you are begging for a guy who has only won one ONE freekin game. I don’t care what kind of elaborate offenseses he can draw up on the white board. He aint gettin it done. Sure he’s had injuries, but so has Woody and the Hawks.

Next you’ll be crying for PJ Carlesimo or Rich Rodriguez or somebody. While we’re on the subject of PJ. Can somebody please alert the NBA Good Ole Boy Network that the guy is garbage as a head coach. GGGGEEEZZZZUUUSSSS!!!

By Samuel

November 25, 2008 5:39 AM | Link to this

And while we’re at it Mike Dunleavy. Guy has B Davis, M Camby, C Kaman, Al Thorton, Eric Gordon and Ricky Davis.He has 2, Count em, 2 wins. And yall complaining about Woody with 8 despite a boatload of injuries. Give me a break.

By Matthew Jones

November 25, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

hey this is Matt Jones josh smith best friend and cuzin i wanna know that how long he been out though what day he post to come back to play with the hawks again though. ps. Matt Jones

By A.S.

November 25, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Woody needs to let him back. 2 weeks off is a strong rest period. If he isn’t back in the lineup by Wed then the Hawks may find themselves in another tough situation in the 4th qtr. with only minutes remaining. Even if he only plays 10-15 MINS in the game his presence will help.

By Astro Joe

November 25, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Ray, I agree with Samuel’s sentiment (not his exact words) that Acie has not stepped up during non-garbage time moments. Goose eggs is strong but I agree with the basis of the assessment.

Obviously, Acie can only excel when his coach allows him to play. And while I haven’t seen every minute of Acie’s playing time this year, it is clear that his best moments most recently (NJ & Cleveland games) came when he played the “combo guard” role after the game had been decided. So here’s hoping that Woody allows him to shine like that when the game is still being decided. Given the past 4-5 games, I’d let Acie get the minutes that are currently going to the guy who is performing like a nomadic, minimum wage earning shot-chucker. If Flip can get 15+ minutes while shooting 30% from the field, then I’m all for allowing Law to show and prove even through a mistake or three.

By Lacsho

November 25, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Woody’s is doing a better job of playing his bench, but the way he uses his bench is suspect. Flip can be ice cold he will leave him in the game for 10 minutes at a time. However, Acie only plays at 4 or 5 minute intervals. (what gives) Like my man have stated previously, Woody prefers the veteran play, and he continues to fail at developing Acie. Furthermore, Ray has stated numerous times, Acie cannot establish a rhythm, while playing 4 - 5 minutes spurts (I agree). Acie should be playing at least 25 minutes per game.

If you take Bibby out of the equation, what would the Hawks really loose? Keep it real fellas Bibby’s offense contributions are offset by his defense liabilities. As long as Bibby is on this team Acie will never develop. I ask anyone on this blog, is there another team Bibby would start for?

Reese

You said he plays good team defense, I don’t see it. You said Bibby has problems guarding quick pg’s, I say he has problems guarding any pg. Name a team that doesn’t have a quick pg.

By yea i said it

November 25, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Eddie Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike Woodson

By MannyT

November 25, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

Please stop trying to put Bibby under the blog bus.

Here’s what Bibby does give us that is relatively unique on this roster. He takes care of the ball. Something that neither Flip nor JJ do well. Check the assists to turnovers.

He has leadership swagger. For all those who would trash him for talking it up in the playoffs, he was one of the few that had the swagger we often look for in this team of nice guys. JJ does not lead by talk, but example. Someone needs to say the words.

While it is not unique, Bibby does get his hands in the way defensively. He gets a good amount of steals when you compare them to his time on the court. Same is true for Flip.

What I would like to see is Bibby and AC on the court at the same time in certain situations. For example, when Charlotte played Augustin & Felton in the backcourt, we could have had them both on the floor. Similar for the Indy setup with Ford & Jack.

richbrave It’s all good with me. Let’s see what Tapscott can do.

BWAF

By HB Ando

November 25, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Ken, your reference to Dumars decision to trade Billups, and “hand over” the team to Stuckey, curiously fails to highlight that Dumars picked up ALLEN FREAKIN IVERSON in the deal.

This back and forth of Bibby and Acie, and is Bibby leaving, and is Acie ready, doesn’t really have an objective answer. We don’t KNOW if finances will force the ASG to decide to move Bibby. And we don’t KNOW if Acie truly is ready to step in (with one of the best insurance policies in the league, in Flip, and JJ’s versatility to run the offense).

IF Bibby is traded, then Flip HAS to be ready, or Bibby has to bring a better option (unlikely) to replace him.

There’s no getting around the perception that trading Bibby, from a Hawks team that appears to be a legitimate playoff team (if the key players are healthy), brings with it the risk that the organization could hurt this season’s product. So if you agree that we’re a better team, with Bibby, regardless of what some folks see as his limitations, defensively, and the organization agrees as we well, then the only reason to trade him would be financial.

And with such a move would come the uncertainty of whether Acie could step in and help the team maintain it’s competitive level.

And arguing over whether he can or can’t, is just guess work, based on limited opportunities and dissimilar production (frequently going against other teams’ bench players, which limits how much you can extrapolate about his readiness, to this point).

So the big question remains, can the ASG afford to keep Bibby, ride this seasons’ opportunity, and see what this team is capable of? Or will finances force a decision to dump Bibby’s expiring contract, in the middle of a promising season, giving Law the major challenge of stepping in during a playoff run?

Josh’s defensive presence is even more necessary when you get back to the argument about whether Horford is better suited at the 4, rather than the 5. Lot’s of folks here are cool with him at the five. But lacking the help side defense of Josh really highlights that Horford is playing out of position at the five. And, as I mentioned Sunday night, and SS noted during his post, when guys like Rasho and Murphy, and Brook Lopez, go for monster nights against the Hawks, it’s very hard not to come to the conclusion that the Hawks still need a center, so that Horford can slide to the position Barkley said he could be a ten-year all-star at. The 4.

Any of the folks who scoffed at Bargnani, during my earlier posts about he and Marvin, noticing that Marvin isn’t the only guy who’s showing major improvement this year? Blocks and 3’s from a seven-footer. And he came in a year after Marvin, so I’d suggest anyone who called for patience, for Marvin, ought to be allowing for the same, with Bargnani.

By Astro Joe

November 25, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

MannyT, I was looking at Bibby’s A:T ratio over the weekend and was pleasantly surprised. I think that is a great mesaure of a PG’s effectiveness and he has been better than I expected in that category.

Ando, I haven’t watched any of the Raptors games since Bargnani moved into the starting line-up. But I’m guessing that he is being guarded by the opposing team’s SF, since it wouldn’t make too much since to try to put a SF on Bosh or O’Neil. But that’s my opinion as I haven’t watched those games. But if Bargnani is developing as a SF with range, then what different is there between he and Marvin? He doesn’t seem to board better than Marvin and his scoring is likely due to a combination of his skills and his pecking order in the offense (above both Parker, JON and Calderon on most nights). Would Bargnani get as many touches in a line-up with JJ, Bibby & Smith? Again, I haven’t watched him play since we played them, but I have watched Marvin. Hard for me to contemplate trading Marvin for another “work in progress” (at seemingly the same position) when I can see the progress that Marvin’s work has produced.

By Joe Blow

November 25, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

People laugh at me when I suggest the Hawks should sign Dikembe Mutumbo. I think he would be an affordable answer to the dilemma the Hawks have of defending the paint. Granted he would probably only be used 10/15 minutes a game but he can protect the rim and he is a model citizen. Joel Przybilla would be great but its very unrealistic that we could acquire him. All I know is Josh needs help defending the paint. I think Solo will develop into a human fly swatter but I think Deke definately could help mentor him.

By MannyT

November 25, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Astro I have not been following the Raptors, but I do know that O’Neal has been hurt (knee) and not playing lately. That could be where Bargiani is picking up minutes.

As for the Bibby assist to turnover thing, also check the minutes. Interestingly, Law is the other guy that is taking care of the ball, just has a lot fewer minutes.

I’d prefer not to turn over the starting PG role to Flip because he doesn’t seem to protect the ball (i.e. turns it over like a lumberjack on a log in the river.)

Hey man, can you spare a Euro! Global economics play role in basketball around the world.

Samuel I get that Eddie Jordan and the Wiz were not having a good start to the season. However, would you prefer the great Larry Brown? He’s got 4 wins and a NBA championship. There is more to it than the record. Sure you don’t get a pass due to injuries, but the bigger question for me is how the coach controls the team. The Wiz looked better than we did for much of the game here. Even without 2 starters (Arenas, Haywood), losing Mason over the summer and giving away their 2nd round pick (Bill Walker) for cash. There is more yuk going on up there than we see from here.

At the end of last season, it was clear that Jordan and Cheeks were doing more with similar talent than Atlanta. Now that we have a few more pieces, we have seen improvement. He didn’t get a few more pieces. He lost some and it shows in the record. Yet, those guys seem to hustle at least as much as we did. I recall they came here 0-for season last November and beat us. Maybe the character of that squad is to start slowly.

Byron Scott got let go in NJ a few years ago. I don’t think it was because he had no skills. Sometimes, there is a fall guy.

BWAF

By Ken Strickland

November 25, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

ANDO-I didn’t mention Iverson because I figured we all knew the trade was about his expiring contract, not him. Now, if he leads the Pistons to the promise land, things could change. Otherwise, Iverson’s tenure with the Pistions ends with his expiring contract. The absolute bottomline is, this was a move to get in position financially to go after Lebron James when he becomes available.

By HB Ando

November 25, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Ken, it’s also a clear statement that Dumars, and many folks around the league, are pretty certain Stuckey is ready to emerge. The question that seems unanswered here is, “is Law a similarly sure thing”. Based on the continuing arguments it’s pretty apparent there is no consensus on that point.

Which ties back into the reality that moving Bibby, and handing the job to Law, would come with clear risk to this seasons’ outcome. And that logic underscores that the only reason we would see Bibby traded would be financial.

Iverson gives the Pistons ongoing potential for this season, and flexibility for the coming years. The set themselves up for the future, without having to dump this season.

Could the Hawks do the same if they move Bibby during the season? Time will tell…

Joe, Bargnani was moved into the starting lineup before O’Neal got hurt. You seem to miss the point about Bargnani: he’s capable of playing inside or out, on offense, and still able to body, and block shots, against opposing bigs, given his seven-foot stature.

Jhan and I got a good look at him against the Hawks. He stepped on the floor and instantly scored with two strong moves on the low block. He presents a matchup problem that Marvin does not current represent. And I’m not saying he’s better than Marvin. I’m still saying this team needs a seven-footer who can consistently stretch opposing defenses, and off-set the limited outside shooting of our other two front liners, while helping Horford defend the block (Bargnani is averaging 1.4 blocks this season).

Kind of a moot point, though, as the whole Bargnani/Marvin thing was nothing more than food for discussion……..

By Spud Webb

November 25, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Please fire Woody. I can’t imagine how good this team would be without him!

By richbrave

November 25, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

MANNY T:

BANNER headline on the frontpage in the RICHMOND TIMES-DISGUST - “WIZARDS FIRE JORDAN, BUT HE WASN’T THE PROBLEM.”

Inside PAUL WOODY’s sports editorial column headline - “WHISTLE WIZARDS FOR A FOUL.”

JORDAN was compared to DICK MOTTA and his coaching abilities. It ends with the supposition that JORDAN will not be unemployed long. I concur. Jack up the ASG and SUND. SIGN HIM UP BEFORE HE”S GONE - probably in the next few days.

I’m telling you he was losing control of his players and ARENAS was the fly in the ointment. That’s why EDDIE was let go. Just a hunch mind you. I didn’t like the way DIXON and YOUNG were crowding AGENT ZERO instead of JORDAN for advice during time-outs.

Best way to fulfil ARENAS’ prophasy regarding a number one pick is to fire a great coach. Who’s in charge in D.C.? Certainly not the owner.

By Astro Joe

November 25, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

MannyT, yeah, I kind of heard about JON’s injury and checked ESPN’s box scores. Looks like Bargnani started getting the start about 5 games ago, before the O’Neil injury (and right after Moon had a rough night). In the last game when JON only played 13 minutes, Bargnani struggled.

Ando, fair point about the block shots that Bargnani provides. And like you said, the point is moot because both team’s have invested time in their respective players and are not likely to end the relationship now that both are showing signs of life (even though the best time to sell is when the price is high… much like Walsh did with Z-Bo).

Speaking of patience, put me down for signing Rasho Nesterovic next season as a UFA. I still believe that we need a true center on a part-time basis (as opposed to trading a full-timer contributor like Marvin, Horford or Smith). If we can get and stay relatively healthy, I think we can take the next logical progression with this current roster. Rasho would be a liability speed wise but would provide enough low post offense and defense to help us when we’re forced to play and defend half-court sets. And his price should be reasonable.

By ray

November 25, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Samuel,

I misunderstood you. I didn’t know you were quoting me (but then again, you didn’t give a lot of indication that you were). I see what you’re saying now. But I still disagree with your take on things, which is no big deal.

I continue to wait for somebody to point out to me all those big minutes and golden opportunities that Acie has had to prove himself while he’s been playing that HUGE 11.5 minutes per game. It’s not like he gets to play all of those minutes at once. Tell you what, if Acie is supposed to be producing so much during those oh-so-critical 2, 3, and 4 minutes stretches, then let’s swap roles with him, Bibby, and/or Flip and see how they produce in the same amount of time.

Here’s the hilarious part: Woodson himself said that he probably should have played Acie more last year, yet here he is doing the same thing again. What a great development program. Way to plan for the future. Oh, I forgot. Bibby will live forever. Heh.

Astro Joe,

I understand what you’re saying. I maintain that Acie’s biggest minutes have come in so-called garbage time. Not during the time the game is still “undecided”. I think that speaks for itself. Again, against Cleveland, he started playing really well with the third quarter half way over. If other guys step up alongside him, we possibly win that game. He helped cut the deficit in half. Correct me if I’m wrong, but unless you’re down by 50 points against the NBA champs with a quarter and a half yet to be played (or some other extreme scenario) then the game ain’t over yet.

But it doesn’t even matter. Dude is toast until he gets real playing time. And his coach probably won’t give it to him. Here we go again….

As for Eddie Jordan, I don’t think he’s all that bad of a coach. But he’s not our coach, and we’re not getting him, so I see no point in getting all worked up about it.

By Samuel

November 25, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Not the Bargnani talk again

I thought that was a dead horse. Ando, you failed to mention that the Raptors are 2-5 since BarniBaby has been manning the post. Their only victories came against the Heat twice. By the way their(Heat) center is what, 6’71/2”.

I’ll have to admitt though, he did show me a couple of post moves in the 1st quarter against the Hawks but after that he was basically a non-factor. Back to jackin them 3’s, as usual.

Let’s be real here. He may be 7ft but he hasn’t shown that he can guard anybody. The 1.4 blocks are fools gold. What about the other 50 possessions on defense?

Just what we need another 3pt shooter.

Bargnani is still neck and neck with LaRue Martin as the worst #1 pick of all time. Kwame surpassed him this year IMO. I’m still up in the air on wheather he(Bargnani) is better than (the Kandi Man) Olowokandi. Time will Tell.

What Yall Think?.

By terrell barron

November 25, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Bibby for Starbury. Straight up. Dantoni likes guys that can shoot and his teams play very little defense. Bibby would fit that system. We need an experienced(see Woody) penetrating pg, that can shoot AND dish out the rock. If Marbury’s contract expires after this year, and Woody still does’nt trust Acie, I’d make that deal. Just a thought.

By Blast

November 25, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

No way in hell do we want Marbury in the ATL. Stephon is a cancer, he has killed every team he has ever played on. We need model citizens down here, not truculent thugs.

Amazing. This blog started with Josh Smith, then swerved to Acie, now it’s Marvin for that tall dude in Canada, again! and now Stephon? Oh Lord.

Sekou we need a new blog, or a Hawks game!

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 25, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

I have a different question though — if the DASG wanted to make a salary-related move, why would they trade a guy whose contract expires at the end of this season, when they would have to take back an equal amount in salary? As far as I know the only way they could avoid taking back an equal amount is if they dumped him on a team like the Bobcats or Grizzlies who are well under the cap, and I can’t possibly see why a team like that would want to take on Bibby’s salary.

By Blast

November 25, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

I still say Bibby stays till the end of the season. Trading him now makes no sense. Woody likes him, Joe likes him, the fans yell his name when he launches a 3, more importantly, his almost 15 mil comes off the books at the end of the season.

Bibby’s expiring contract is his F!!K U money. He knows that’s his last big money contract as his career winds down. Regardless of how he plays this season, he’ll get a good deal somewhere, nowhere close to what he makes now. If he ends back with the Hawks or not, the Hawks can do a lot with 15 million dollars. Joe’s contract expires in 2 years, Marvin needs attention, they still need a big man, the list goes on. So why trade Bibby and get close back in salary, and maybe get stuck with bad long term contracts? Expiring contracts, especially big ones are major assets in the NBA. AI-Detroit. Really it’s one of the reasons the Hawks got Bibby in the first place!

By SportsGuy

November 25, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

WTF is going with NBA TV?? The are like the Dollar General of the NBA. I dont get it. Plus the Show is in ATLANTA!! Then they pick up Chris I need a timeout Weber and Gary backlump head Payton along with Amahd “where the old rich white women at?” Rashad. Then they put them on a set with Rotten Azz hay and pumpkins. Steve Smith is the only thing they have going for em. You would think the NBA would spend thier millions more wisely.

By blue hawk

November 25, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

anybody considering Darko Milicic (yeah, free Darko).

the guy has seemed to mature already. he’s still a legit 7 footer with a great wingspan, hops, timing and good agility for a bigman. plus he’s a lefty, perfect for bothering right handed post players.

the guy had a good game defending Tim Duncan in the post in his last game (the coach said so too). he held Duncan to 14 pts on 6-18 shooting. we definitely need a good BIG post defender (read: seven footer). Smoove is all good patrolling the paint but we need to upgrade our one on one post defender so guys like Rasho, Foster and Murphy won’t burn our a* anymore.

Hey, he doesn’t even have to start, he just has to become like an upgraded third big man or something.

i was clamoring for Biedrins before the season but GS was smart enough to tie him up. Darko may just be the next best thing. although not really the best, just a nice good piece to add to your team.

FREE DARKO

By terrell barron

November 25, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Blast, how do you know this guy was a cancer? Were you on the Suns of Wolves squads back then, or are you going by what you HEAR from the MEDIA? If that’s what makes you a cancer, then we have one here in Smoove. Remember, they said Woody and Josh hated each other’s guts. I think Marbury just needs a change of scenery myself. But to each his own. And if I’m not mistaken, his contract also ends after the season. If not, no way I’d make the deal. I clearly said that earlier.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 25, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Wow, Andray Blatche dropped an insane stat line today (yeah it was against the Warriors, but still)… damn if that dude could stay away from Burger King he would be a hell of a player.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 25, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Marbury is a cancer necessarily. I just think he’d disrupt the flow of this team. Joe Johnson is the lead dog on this team as far as scoring is concerned. He’s the guy who takes clutch shots, and the offense is centered around him. Even though Bibby might be a shoot-first guard at times, he doesn’t usually take away shots from Joe. Marbury’s game is such that he probably would. I don’t know that it would fit. Really the problem with Bibby is on the defensive end, and I don’t think Marbury is a huge upgrade there.

By Blast

November 25, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Terrell, I am not going by what I hear from the media about Marbury, I am going about what I hear from his former teammates, his current teammates, his coaches previous and current, and also by what I do not hear from those people, which is any form of praise of compliment about his ability to mesh with players and make them better. All I hear is selfish and malcontent.

Stephon I believe was drafted by the Wolves. He was supposed to be the pg answer to the center/forward Garnett, but after two years of successful basketball, Stephon suddenly decided he wanted a trade, because he wanted to be the MAN! He got his trade, and he has never been the MAN anywhere else since then.

I’m not hating on him, but he won’t be a good fit for the Hawks. He didn’t make Phoenix any better, so he got bounced, now he can’t even get off the bench in NY. Why is that? With all his skills? He is not a team player. He is selfish, that’s all I’m trying to say.

By ray

November 25, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Ha! Who says there isn’t comedy on this blog? Here we are in the latest installment of a theme and variations, dripping with satire and irony. We’ll call this one Bargnani’s a bum, Bibby’s a Blessing.

Bargnani gets bagged on for jacking 3s… Nearly half of Bibby’s shots are 3s….

Bargnani’s 1.4 blocks per game are summarily dismissed as fool’s gold, and it’s said he hasn’t proven he can guard anybody.

Guess we can dismiss Bibby’s 1.4 steals as fool’s gold as well. He’s certainly proven who he can guard. His own shadow…if he’s standing still…

Good work, Sam. That’s some truly funny stuff there. They should replace Charles Barkley with you on TNT. Poor Ernie Johnson would go bald again in no time flat, and this time it wouldn’t be from cancer, bless his soul…

Blue Hawk,

Darko is damaged goods, but he’s use-worthy. Thing is, he’s still a bit of a mystery as far as what makes him tick, and inconsistent as hell. He’s like a less steady version of Nesterovic. And he lost his job this season to a rookie Gasol not named Pau. I don’t know what I’d be willing to give for him….RandMo and Gardner (nobody would be stupid enough to pull the trigger on that one)? It’s not like they’re going to play anyway.

Sekou,

Nice article on Acie. Woody says we have the “luxury” of developing Acie. Heh…somebody help me, I think I cracked a rib laughing…

By ray

November 25, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Who knows what the deal is with Marbury. But he won’t be coming here. I’d just about bet money on it. If there is even a hint of a question of character and dude is coming off a 20-something million dollar a year contract? Ha! Not the ASG, buddy. And we won’t miss him. Besides, didn’t anybody tell you? Bibby is the man. Get that straight.

By richbrave

November 25, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

124-100 says it all. The ED TAPSCOTT era has begun. Energy, and verve ruled the court as the revitalized WIZARDS dismanteled the NELLIE-ball boys. NELSON sat anchored to the bench. Not a whimper as his team was disrobed and butt-f*ed by the lusty magicians. If this is any indication of what coaching change can do, then I’m all for it.

Completely different offensive scheme. I don’t know enough basketball parlay-vous to know the name of it, but damn. No more look for the outside shot first crap. And NO MORE ONE ON ONE drives from the top of the key. Lots of crisp passes, and aggressive offensive rebounding. The team tallied over twenty O-bounds. Pound the ball inside. Take it to the rim with bodies flying everywhere. BLATCHE was insane, masterful. Where he’s been hiding I have no idea, but TAPSCOTT promised him a starting assignment and he made the most of it. McGEE re-invigorated. Don’t know the lines yet haven’t looked them up but IMPRESSIVE. BUTLER 35, JAMISON 25. STEVENSON seven assists but 0-7 from the floor. THOMAS never left the bench.

ARENAS imitated a bench cover. No bull-shyt jiving with the bench or up walking onto the floor and mingling about coaching the players. Maybe he thought better of it being ED’s first night and all. Maybe he was told to shut his trap and not get in the way. Hopefully, the latter.

Gotta’ go. Baking a THANKSGIVING cake. It’s the old mess sergeant in me. Later.

By richbrave

November 25, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

DEE BROWN looked extremely effective in this new offensive set. TAPSCOTT is using his quickness to effect. JUAN DIXON played little, but well.

Defensively BLATCHE was off-the-hook and out-of-control-as in the offense of the WARRIORS couldn’t control him in any facet of the game. This allowed JAMISON to be much better on the defensive end. DOMINIC McGUIRE had quality minutes and continues to develop as BUTLER’s back-up. Actually played 2,3,and 4 on different occasions. SONGAILA his steady, effective self. PETCHEROV stayed anchored to the bench. He’s just too slow for this defense.

And after the game, JAMISON issued an ominous line at the end of his interview. “We’ve got a tough game coming up against a HAWKS team that embarressed us early[ier] in the month.” A sinister reference. Get ready for a throw-down game denizens. You are not going to want to miss watching this one. WITH HORFORD I rate this an absolute toss-up, IF the LIZARDS don’t show up disguised as magicians.

By richbrave

November 25, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

As in their last game, the WIZARDS clogged the middle and dared the WARRIORS to shoot three’s. As you may know that is not their strength. Suspect that JORDAN would have done the same, but against the KNICKS there was no urgency on the part of the playas’.

Obviously everything’s on the table play-wise. Personnel are scrambling for starting slots and the $$$$ that go with effective minutes played. TAPSCOTT was in charge of the newbies, so he’s quite familiar with their strengths and weaknesses. And coaching-wise, the baby is still in the house even though the bath-water is evaporating in the sun. O’KOREN was canned, but the rest of EDDIE’s staff stayed. I saw HUBBARD and WES JR. on the bench. Definitely the re-make has begun.

POLLIN WILL be rewarded for his generous contracts - or else heads will roll. ERNIE GRUNFELD should have mopped his brow in the interview he gave on the transition to E.T. Nobody’s blaming JORDAN including JAMISON who said in the after-interview when asked directly if the change was all on the players - “YES. It wasn’t EDDIE’s fault” So jobs are obviously on the line. We’ll see how long this lasts.

By Ken Stricikland

November 26, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

ANDO-I think the only thing that’s not a sure thing about Acie is his jumpshot, which isn’t his forte. We all know his DEF is ready and his speed, quickness, penetrating and passing ability are proven comodities. The rest will come with time and experience. He’s demonstrated enough to show he’s more than capable of taking over this team, unless you’re looking for excuses to maintain the status quo, like Woodson seems to be.

Flip Murray is a good saftey net, but he’s too OFF minded to run this team as the primary PG. However, he’s just what the doctor ordered when we need OFF. Both he and Acie are adept at breaking down DEF’s and getting in the lane, almost at will, and that’s what we need most. It makes better scorers out of our bigs and makes it easier for them to score.

I don’t see Acie ever becoming the prolific 3pt shooter that Bibby is. But, he can be just as prolific at putting points on the scoreboard, just in a different way. Acie can get the other teams BIGS in foul trouble and do a lot of his 3pt scoring the old fashioned way. I think his penetrating, DEF, assists and clutch shooting would be more beneficial to the team in the long run than Bibby’s 3pt shooting, as well as his lack of DEF and penetrating ability.

Against Cleveland you saw him get the rebound and run a one man fast break, and he drew fouls in a few instances. You will never see that from Bibby. In fact, can you remember the last time you saw Bibby shoot a layup? We have become an excellent 3pt shooting team, but we’ll have to do more if we want to win consistently. Since we don’t have any prolific scoring back to the basket BIG(s) that can force double teams, we need PG’s that can get inside the DEF and force it to collapse. Flip and Acie can put as much pressure on opposing PG as they’ve been putting on us, especially against Bibby.

I like Bibby, I like the headiness of his gm, and I like his ability to shoot the 3, especially in the clutch. But I like the Hawks as a team more and I believe Acie will be an overall improvement when it comes to OFF, and a definite improvement when it comes to DEF.

By reese

November 26, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

Lacsho, to answer your question about which team do not have quick point guards. I’ll just focus on starters since Bibby is a starter. Andre Miller(philly), Chauncey Billups (denver), Luke Ridenour (bucks), Derek Fisher (lakers), Chris Duhon (knicks), Steve Blake (portland) and Steve Nash (Suns) are examples of point guards who are not quick.

However, it really doesn’t matter because each of these guards have found ways to be effective in the league. It helps when their teammates understand that they must play good team defense behind them. It helps when their teammates understand and make their rotations on defense. It helps when their teammates pack the paint and/or cutoff driving/passing lanes.

Examples of Bibby understanding team defense are demonstrated by his rotating into passing lanes to deflect passes, double teaming big men and stripping the ball from them, his 1.4 steals per game and his offside rotations into the lane to attempt to get rebounds against bigger players.

By NikkiFree

November 26, 2008 4:39 AM | Link to this

High ankle sprain always spells extended time off. Get well soon Josh. We need you in thhe woest way.

By O'brien

November 26, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

In Sekou’s new article, Woody said Acie is still not where he wants him to be, in terms of running the team. Well, what does he expect? It’s hard to run a team when you average 11.5 minutes per game. If you take way the Cleveland game (in which he played really well) Acie averages 10.5 minutes per game. And that’s in 3, 4 minute spurts. I agree with Ray on this one. Acie needs more consistent time (when the game is undecided) so we can know what kind of player he is for real.

By doc

November 26, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

please someone tell me what flip is doing in woody’s “offense” that acie isnt, cant or wont? next tell me what woody’s “offense is? acie is exactly where woody wants him to be in terms of running his offense, sitting at the end of the bench admiring the veterans. what a waste.

me, id rather have acie playing and adding flip’s money to what should have been offered to chills. yup, more balance that way as chills would have been providing some lift and length with smith gone. again that would have forced woody’s hand to play the guy and we all know woody is better off with fewer alternatives and choices.

looking forward to tonight’s game with my girls in tow. wonder if bogout’s injury was serious enough to take his tall body out of the game.

By Astro Joe

November 26, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

richbrave, it’ll be funny if all of those bigs that you listed a few days ago suddenly use their physical skills to out-work the Hawks this week. Of course, giving them playing time would certainly help them… something Jordan didn’t do last week. Again, not saying that he was fired for one game, just saying that I thought that he poorly managed that specific game (given that we were missing Horford & Smith & Zaza was playing with 1 shoulder).

doc, Woody’s double standard is amazing. Flip can shoot 30%, continue taking shots early in the possession, play average defense and turn the ball over and stay on the floor. If one of Acie’s socks is lower than the other, Woody will bench him for 44 minutes.

The one legit knock I see with Law is that he does what so many other young PGs do… gets dribble happy while trying to read the defense. Like a young QB taking too long for a receiver to get open and ends up getting sacked. But that won’t improve by having him sit next to Craig Claxton. And it won’t get better by having Law play extended minutes against the other team’s scrubs.

Here’s hoping for a blow-out win with JJ and the starters sitting on the bench with 8 minutes left in the game.

By richbrave

November 26, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

ASTRO JOE:

Only way I can explain it is there’s complacent and then there’s not complacent. Of course, last night’s opponant wasn’t the MAGIC either. Let’s see what occurs there before I cristen the WIZARDS as a better than mediocre team.

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Astro, he probably gets dribble happy because he’s afraid to make a mistake. Woody just needs to let Acie ball and stop trying to be Bobby Knight. It’s only 13 games into the season, and I’m getting sick and tired of Woodrow already. lol!!

By MannyT

November 26, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

FYI—you can trade for a guy within 125% of the lower total salaries, so Bibby for Marbury is very close, but I think you have to put in another player on this end. All that said, I’d be shocked if the $20 million dollar man with the $20 sneaks plays here. Sure he could contribute, but I think the ASG money is too funny to stand on the corner of Luxury Tax Lane without knowing that the additional piece puts you in a real conversation for the NBA title. Not only do you pay the tax, but you lose the NBA welfare check that goes to teams that didn’t overspend. Besides, the big free agent summer is 2010, so there is little benefit to having that space a year early.

All that doesn’t even scratch the surface of dealing with Marbury, who has zero incentive to do more than sit down and keep quiet in NY to collect roughly $267,500 every time he watches the Knicks play from his court side seat. Not judging the guy, but it is tougher to fit in when you come to a team during the season. You have to adjust to their routines while likely living in a hotel as your “home.” In his case, being at the end of a contract, it is definitely a rent/don’t buy living arrangement.

Then put the point guard runs the offense thing on top of all that. Recall Woody saying that he was glad to get Bibby in for training camp so he could install the offense. New PG would mean more ISO Joe, less everything else.

Bottom line, keep Bibby. Use the $15 mil over the summer. Let’s give the Hawks a chance to gel instead of playing fantasy hoops with the squad.

BWAF

By MannyT

November 26, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Flip brings several things to the table that AC does not (at this time). As a vet, Woody has confidence in him. Sund has confidence in him. Easy to keep the new boss (Sund) happy if you win his way. Woody did not appear interested in winning BKs way—multi positonal flexible players in high tempo game, so there was a logical point of internal friction. Flip also has confidence in his game. He comes here to drive and score with solid defense on the other end of the court.

I would even go farther to say that it looks like Woody is more comfortable with Flip than Mo Evans even though Mo can give you more on defense and the additional shooting threat that allows you to rest JJ or Bibby. A little more Mo/Law in the backcourt could help—good on D, with a driver/scorer and a 3pt shooter.

Not that AC cannot grow into Flip’s role, but it takes time to develop a guy. I suspect that Woody sees practice as the place to develop a player. Your test is a 5 minute stretch in the game. The problem is, AC regularly looks to the bench for his grade which takes away from his game. The vets play on a pass/fail basis. You only look to the coach if you think you are close to failing or he calls you over for instruction.

AC can be good, but I do see some eerie parallels to Salim’s tenure with the Hawks. Limited development leads to decreased playing time as you become older, yet still inexperienced. I think AC can definitely play at this level. However, he may not get his real shot until a backcourt player goes out for a few games and the playing rotations change.

..and doc the interesting thing is that we no longer have is an energy guy that scraps around the basket that Woody will play. No disrespect to West & Hunter, but they don’t get minutes to play that scrappy game. Besides, Mario doesn’t prowl the baseline on offense…not his role unless he learns how to hit that baseline jumper.

See you tonight. Get your cheer on as exercise before getting fattened up tomorrow.

BWAF

By ray

November 26, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe,

Good call. Acie does get dribble happy, as many young pgs do. Of course, I’d be interested in how he’s going to learn to not do that when JJ and Bibby are doing it constantly in Woodson’s stagnant two-man, half-court offense……

Oh well. Looking forward to another win tonight. Hopefully Horford stays out of foul trouble and hems Bogut up (if Bogut plays). Hopefully JJ gets back on track and torches the Bucks. Hopefully Marvin turns in yet another rock solid performance. Hopefully Zaza feels a lot better. And hopefully Acie gets his run and gun on again. I know one thing: if he has a bad game, boy am I gonna catch some flak, LOL!

By ray

November 26, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Manny,

I’d like to see more of the Mo/Law combo myself.

What do you think are the keys to a win tonight?

By James Finley

November 26, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Sekou, what is the real deal with Randolph Morris. Is is just on Woodson’s do not play list. It seems like this is a great opportunity for him to play. At one point you had Smooth out, Horford out, the P man playing with a bad shoulder and still Morris was not used or only a few minutes at best. I know he has some low post moves on offense. If we are not going to use him why did we pick him up. There must have been some big that could have been of service under these circumstances. Or is this just the old Woodson back to form. Help a brother, what is the deal.

By ray

November 26, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Looks like Bogut won’t be playing after all. Time to get the ball to Horford. A lot.

By MannyT

November 26, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

ray I don’t normally think about games this way much, but since you asked…

My big curiousity about this game is the nemesis theory. Was Chicago the place that gave Woody trouble or was it Skiles? He hasn’t been in Milwaukee long enough to mold the team, but he is their defensive minded coach. Fortunately, they will be without key weapons Bogut and Redd so I see it as a lot of scrapping on D from their end and not a much offense.

We should be able to pound on them inside with Al & Zaza. (Orlando’s front line got 39 free throws against them on Monday. WORK THE LANE UNTIL THE PAINT WEARS OUT. (Might even be a role for RandMo tonight.) Marvin needs to make RJ work on D. If he hits from the outside, that should make it even easier for Flip/Law to drive to the hole. We have had a few days off, so I would expect fresh legs and a W.

BWAF

By Mike is back

November 26, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Samuel, I was riding high on Woody during the 6 and 0 stretch. I have been MIA for a while, but I don’t miss a game.  Now that my feet have been planted firmly back on planet earth after the beat down we took from the Cavs, I digress back to reality.   

Overall, I still think Woody is doing a good job of coaching this team. The rash of injuries is testing his commitment to get young guys like Acie more PT.  If someone had told me we would be 8 and 5 at this point in the season with Smoove out, Al, and Zaza getting injured, I would have said, “CMON MAN !!!!!”no way.    

Ray, I think Acie is doing what he should doing to gain more PT. The thing that impresses me about Acie, is his willing to learn from a vet like Bibby. Bibby leadership of the team is the biggest intangible that’s hard to replace.  Acie acknowledges that he is watching how Bibby run the team, and I’m sure he’s checking out Fip the Script also.   Acie has all the physical tools, it’s the mental part of the game Woody is referring to. If he comes in and attack the way he did in the CAVs game, no way can Woody keep him on the bench.  

James Finley, I think Woody is making a mistake if he has given up on Morris. When Smooove, and Al went down he stop running the ball through the post. That hurts a young guy like Morris, because he feeds off his offense.  It’s no big secret that Morris hasn’t been the same since KG dogged him in Boston . What little confidence he had, KG took.  But, KG has done that to plenty of guys. I think that game lead to more BT, instead of PT for Morris. Despite his poor showing thus far this season, Morris is still very much a work in progress. His greatest strength is scoring in the Pivot, which is something we sorely need. I think it’s cheaper to try to develop Morris at this point of the season, then to make one of those knee jerk moves.  We need to wait to see what shakes out at the trade dead line.  

It good to see guys like Zaza, Solo, and Acie stepping their game up this early in the season.  I challenge Woody to step outside himself and come with a different a approach to try motivate this kid Morris. I also challenge Morris to stop feeling sorry his self, forget about the Boston game, get off your Assss, get out there, and fighttttttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!. I think he can help this team.  

HAPPY HOLIDAYS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Ken Stricikland

November 26, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

DOC-are you starting to sound more like me, or am I starting to sound more like you, because we are starting to sound alike when it comes to Woodson?

By Please Me

November 26, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

This blog is silly. Racist too.

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Bibby might actually be able to guard the opposing pg tonight. Ridenhour is’nt the fastest guy. lol!! I really hope I get to see Bibby go up against Tyronne “slow it down” Lue. That ought to be a sight to see.

By doc

November 26, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

ken, it is because we are both dirty old men. if we are not careful we will end up sounding like richbrave and flash as well since they are contemporaries. dont forget old newkid.

woody doesnt quite set me off like he does some and i have always said it is impressive that he has held these guys together during some very dark times. the guys have never stopped playing for long stretches though sometimes obviously not showing up. also not impressed by his control of players but it is what it is. got to hand it to him and hope he can grow as much as the players do.

heading out soon to get some grub before the game tonight with the girls in tow. better have a good game or i will have to provide the entertainment.

as friend mike and kirk say, go hawks!

By rms

November 26, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Hawks beat the Bucks by at least 10pts I think. What are the chances you think we will see Acie in the Rookies vs Sophmores games at Allstar-Weekend in Phoenix along with Horford???

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 26, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

The Bucks seem to have a thing for ex-Hawks mediocrity — first they hired Terry Stotts, then they signed Royal Ivey, and now apparently they have Tyronn Lue. Weird. What’s next, bringing back Zaza next year?

The Bucks will be without their two best players — Redd and Bogut — tonight, so needless to say the Hawks better win this game.

By MannyT

November 26, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Unlikely to see Luke tonight.

..which means you will see more Lue tonight.

By Lacsho

November 26, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

Doc & Ken I love you guys, and I’m a couple of years younger, but I’m right in line with you too.

To be honest I don’t think Woody’s the coach for this team, and I understand why BK left. BK doesn’t get a pass, but Woody is out of touch, and I think he’s stuck in the past. The game has change, and Woody is still coaching like it’s the 70’s. (watching this Beyonce video with my wife, we both agree she is fine as hell)anywayz I gave the brotha (woody)a pass b/c we were winning, and I didn’t want to pull a Ando(lol), but dude was right, and the ownership is so damn suspect. We are loyal fans, and we deserve an Arthur Blank. This guy turned the falcons around in less than a year. He’s a winner.

Manny you’re my man and I have mad respect for you, but when we’re paying Bibby mega millions during the depression, we need CP3 numbers. I cannot and will not give this guy a pass b/c he makes too much money. We already have Craig sitting on the bench. Craig should be ashamed of himself, at least he could pull a W.Dunn and provide houses for single parent families. This guy is stealing money, while he sits on the bench in $2,000 suits. Times are hard and no one gets a pass!!!! I’m tired of these suspect players, and I’m tired of the BASG.

Whatz good Rich I’m headed to Philly next week. I’ll be there for 6 1/2 weeks. I’m going to try and meet you at a Wizards game. I’ll be in touch….

Reese I here you my brotha, yet I can’t sit by quiet and let another player (Bibby) rape us. 15 million for a second string pg, that’s ludicrous. I say we let Acie run the damn show. If we keep Bibby his role should be refined, Acie is our pg for the future… Hell we’ve waited long enough for this team why not use the same philosophy and let Acie show and prove…

RAY you’re preaching to the choir my brother……

Damn, even one of those Lopez brothas would look nice in a Hawks uniform.

By Lacsho

November 26, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

TBarron

I here you my brotha, but unfortunately I think we’re stuck with BASG and their mindset…

Sam, I know how you feel about Woody, but you’re an intelligent brotha, and I think you know when it’s time to throw the towel in….

By ray

November 26, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

Lacsho,

What’s good, brotha? Let’s see how Bibby does against Milwaukee’s pixie pgs? Hope he has a big game tonight. I’d watch out for Ramon Sessions. Dude has some decent game. Skiles will have these guys playing hard, I’m sure. We’re still a better team than they are. Let’s get at ‘em.

It’s about a quarter hour til game time. Time for me to head upstairs so I can get all rowdy by myself in the man-cave. Ahhh yeahhhh.

By Lacsho

November 26, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

Ray

One of my emails is lacsho@yahoo.com…

Holla atcha boy and leave your number.

By hometown Atl

November 26, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Is the game blacked out???? My direct TV FSN channel isn’t showing it. Any help would be appreciated…

By Lacsho

November 26, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Someone please tell me why Law goes out and Flip stays in?

By Lacsho

November 26, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

Hometown

The game is in hd on fox sports network

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

1.Flip should’nt be on the floor when Acie is out there.

1. No way Zaza should start ahead of Solo.

2. What’s up with JJ?

3. Why did Woody pull Acie?

4. Dominique needs to go back in there with Jerome.

Thank you!!

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

And oh yeah, 7. This looks like a D-League team we’re playing and we still cant blow em out.

By Sautee

November 26, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Ken S and doc

Questions, questions……..

Do I sound as old as you guys? (I’m a year older than doc).

Does this blog make me look fat?

Can Bibby stay in front of anybody?

Bucks have 2 starters out and we can’t defend their second string.

And whassup wid’ Joe? He looks awful.

One more half to get it together.

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Hey, what happened to my numbers? lol!! And I got my wish, Bibby vs. T-Lue. lol!!

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

Flip is the vet Lascho. Thats why. You know how Woody is.

By Astro Joe

November 26, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

Terrell, the problem with starting someone like Solo is that he may foul out in the 1st quarter. I think he should get his 15-18 minutes and go hard and not have to worry about foul problems. Zaza has a little more savvy (at this point) to stay on the floor without hacking away (espcially against a team lacking post presence like the Bucks).

Good news that Smith’s return seems to be fairly imminent. Now let’s have a 35-20 3rd quarter and get this thing under control.

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

I agree Sautee. Something’s up with JJ. He’s acting like his mind is elsewhere lately. He definately does’nt look like an All-Star right now.

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

Woody, please put in Acie, so Joe and Bibby will stop dribbling around everywhere.

By happyhawk

November 26, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

its obvious that much of the bloggers here are bibby haters. why don’t you give the man some credit instead of always looking for holes in his game? you always compare him to quicker guards who the management didn’t draft when they had a chance. we’re lucky enough that we have a descent point guard in bibby. he’s better than what we had in that positon in the last ten years.

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Woody said, Acie is’nt where he should be, as far as leading the team goes, so why does he continue to put him in with Flip Murray with Flip running the point? As I say this he puts in Bibby and Flip with Acie in there. Wow!!

By Sautee

November 26, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

happyhawk

Please tell us who are the guards in the league that are slower than Bibby?

Seriously. Go ahead, compare.

He’s a very good, if spotty shooter. Unafraid of the moment. Valuable on offense.

Defensively, errrr, not so much.

And I’d take Jason Terry in his best years here over Bibby. Today, not the Bibby of 04-05.

And yet, we sure need him tonight.

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Law comes out for Horford while Bibby and Flip stay in the game.

By happyhawk

November 26, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

sautee

and where’s jason terry now? he’s not wearing a hawk uniforn. its not like its bibby’s fault for being slow. if you have to blame someone.blame it on the managment. its their fault for not drafting your quick pointguards. stop blaming it all on bibby. its not like he wanted to come here in the first place. most of the guys here looks for a hole in bibby’s game and wants to make him look bad in every game. like what i just said we’re just lucky to have a descent pointguard to run our offense.

By Lacsho

November 26, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

TB&Sautee

I’m going to pull an Ando;Woody is a horrible coach. I know I’m going to get some flack from some of the regulars,however; Woody is suspect as hell. I gave Ken and Ray a little hell about dissing Wooody, but I see the light. They need to get rid of his azz (ASAP), and JJ has been awful lately. He looks like he doesn’t want to be out there.

By richbrave

November 26, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Assistant CELTICS coach TOM THIBIDEAU is rumored to be the leader for the coaching job in D.C. when “interim” ED TAPSCOTT is done.

By Lacsho

November 26, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Dominique is flat out lousy. Damn I miss Smitty.

By happyhawk

November 26, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Lascho

im sure JJ is hurt. that’s why he has trouble doing his thing in offense. though he compensates by making plays for his teammates.

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Talk about an ugly win. I’ll take it though.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 26, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

“its obvious that much of the bloggers here are bibby haters. why don’t you give the man some credit instead of always looking for holes in his game?”

I’m not necessarily a Bibby hater, but I’m not thrilled with his game either… he’s a good role player at this point in his career who limits turnovers and stretches the floor, but at the same time it’s hard not to notice that at any given time he’s the worst defender on the floor for the Hawks. Yeah, I’d probably rather have the ‘02-‘03 Jason Terry, but Bibby’s not bad. Is he worth the $13 million he’s getting paid this year though? Absolutely not. I think he’s a valuable piece for this season, but I do think as the season goes along they should start giving more of his minutes to Acie Law, so that by the end of the season there’s not too much separation between the two.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 26, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Al Horford and Bibby both played great tonight. As has been the case with our last three wins, the margin of victory should have been much higher considering the opponent. I can’t wait for one week from now when Josh returns.

By Melvin

November 26, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

It wasn’t pretty but I will take the win.

Lascho, I don’t think you will get too much flack for calling Woodson a bad coach b/c alot of us bloggers agree with you. My gosh, can we get Woody out of here. This guy refuse to play his bench.

By richbrave

November 26, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

FIRE WOODY. Really.? Is he reverting to form - a WOODEN-one.? A method coach too inflexible to evaluate and use the talent he has on the bench and the floor. Inquiring minds want to know.

BTW THIBIDEAU is known as a strong defensive advocate. My insider at the phone-booth says the WIZ have their eye on some 7’3’ 265 pound junior center in the next draft. But my guy is a guy WHO knows a guy WHO just picks up scuttle-butt and trash part-time, so WHO knows.

By Sautee

November 26, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

happyhawk

Excuse me, but I thought you said:

he’s better than what we had in that positon in the last ten years.

Jason Terry played here in the last ten years.

And I’m not blaming Bibby for being slow, I’m trying to make an analysis of the point guard situation. And that means, by definition, discussing how Bibby has lost a step over the years, and how that impacts this years team.

And I did give him credit for his offensive game (or did you not notice in your haste to defend Bibby).

Believe me, I’ve been a Bibby fan since his Arizona days, but he has lost a step and is a liability on defense. I’m still a fan of his game, but it’s become limited, sad to say.

If that makes this Bibby fan a Bibby hater in your eyes, than so be it.

By terrell barron

November 26, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Thats the defensive guy, right?

By Sautee

November 26, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Lacsho

Clyde has just the T-shirt for you.

And yeah, ‘Nique is horrible. I miss Smitty. too.

By richbrave

November 26, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

ASTRO JOE:

I did wonder why JORDAN didn’t use McGEE(5), BLATCHE(4), JAMISON(3), BUTLER(2) and STEVENSON(1) as his starting five since the only win up to that time was the UTAH game where those players were in at the start.

By Blast

November 26, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Big Al says he is The BOSS and The BOSS he is!!!!!!!

Go Hawks!!!!!! This is your breakout year!

I do believe JJ is still hurting.

Can we beat the Raptors again without Josh in the line up?

Did Flip and Bibby account for themselves tonight? Please let me know, people.

9-5 with Smoove playing only 4 games. How good can we be when he gets back healthy? Before tonight, only five teams in the East with an over 500 record. The Hawks are playing with the big boys, man.

By Sautee

November 26, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

And I guess Bibby is a “descent” guard, since his game is on a “descent”.

I’d settle for decent.

By Sautee

November 26, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Geez! In Woodson’s postgame interview he said that the Bucks going small “confused” them and they were going to have to figure out what to do when teams go small. (This is when Al went out with 4 fouls).

This should be so easy. Put Joe on the blocks and let him post up. You get to keep the precious “iso Joe” and with no shot blockers he should feast on his man.

Geez, Woody, it’s not rocket surgery! ;-)

By reese

November 26, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

First of all, its nice to get a win.

Secondly, Woodson has made his statement. He does not trust his big men to play big minutes together. Marvin played the majority of the game in the power forward position. Solomon Jones did not play in the 4th quarter. Woodson had Marvin at the 5, Maurice at the 4, JJ at the 3, Bibby at the 2 and Flip at the point to start the 4th quarter.

Finally, why is this so crucial in a game like tonight. Solomon Jones and Al Horford were playing well together in the first half. Solomon was altering opponent shots and grabbing rebounds. Milwaukee did not have their starting center and had a rookie in the power forward position. Now, was the chance to see if our big men could dominate against a smaller lineup like Pacers and Nets did to us.

P.S., now as I’m typing this woodson says that the bucks played into their hands with small ball.

By richbrave

November 26, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

t.b.:

Might be RAY GUY for all I know Terrell.

By happyhawk

November 26, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

sautee

sorry and no offense man. maybe i just snapped or sumtin. heh i’m just getting tired of seeing negative comments about him. i’ve always been a bibby fan since he came in sactown. bu i gotta admit that i also starting to get upset of his defense sometimes. though i know that its unfair to compare him from the bibby of the past. i just want the bloggers to give him some respect for what he’s done for this team. its really sad to see his game deteriorating.

By cp

November 26, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

We won but it was ugly. What pg has not lit us up? If we contain the starter it seems like the backup goes off. Either way a pg gets his against us.

I would rather have Grant Long back than to hear Nique. Im almost to the point where I want to mute my T.V.

Woodson is very close to being called Mike Knapp again. Im trying to hold off but boy he is baffling at times.

By reese

November 26, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

By the way, did anyone else notice that Al Horford had a Josh Smith type of night. He had entries in every positive defense/offensive category. To the dislike of Dominique Wilkins, he was grabbing rebounds and pushing the ball down court.

Lacsho, its best to not focus too much on the amount of money these players are making. If ticket prices were reasonable, I’d be at many more hawks games. Instead, I’ll continue watching on my big screen TV and continue paying my high monthly cable bill. I wish I had seen your post before 5:22 left in the game. I would have been watching the game on HD instead of regular cable.

By Astro Joe

November 26, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

richbrave, sounds like they have their eye on Thabeet from UCONN. BTW, my father grew up in DC and I have a sister there, so I have always followed DC teams. Obviously, I can’t begin to challenge your knowledge of the Wizards as my interest is casual at best. But I enjoyed their run from the past few years (when Arenas was healthy). But I could never see a path to them being a true contender with Arenas’ lack of defensive interest.

Marvin is a completely different player this season. Again, it doesn’t always show in the box score but dude is really looking quite good, active, engaged and confident this season… in every facet of the game. And nice bounce-back from Flip. And good limited play from Acie.

By Lacsho

November 26, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

HappyHawk, I think you’re right about JJ. If he is hurt, Woody needs to sit him down. We have a decent bench. I’m sorry to put Salt on this win, but Woody is horrible (enough is enough).

By Lacsho

November 26, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

Reese, I’m trying my brotha, but times are hard, and I’m feeling kind of Sautee.

Here’s a question for my Hawks family. What’s the difference between Salim and Bibby? (Rhetorical Question)

11 mill and 10 years.

By reese

November 26, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

I’ll admit that I have enjoyed watching Bibby play since he has been at Sacremento. Additionally, I wanted the hawks to acquire him.

Yes, he has lost a step on defense and offense. However, he able to be a major contributor in other areas.

I’m watching real tv on NBA.com and Devin Harris was going by Marvin Williams, Joe Johnson and Flip Williams just as easily as he was going by Bibby.

I was a Jason Terry fan as well. However, he is not a point guard. He is shooting guard. Thats why Dallas traded Devin Harris to New Jersey for Jason Kidd. They realized that Jason was better at the 2 guard position and could occasionally play the point position.

By reese

November 26, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

LOL Lacsho, I’m not enamored with Woodson as the coach or Wilkins as a Color Commentator.

However, I’m not calling for the firing of either. I realize that they both are learning their jobs and I throw out suggestions in the blog world in case they ever read or a friend of theirs reads to tell them about it.

I remember listening to Snapper Jones in the early ninties and I could stand to listen to him as well back then. However, he sounded much better and provided true analysis when he filled in for Wilkins.

It would have been nice if Woodson would have played solomon late in 4th quarter to challenge the shots of sessions, jefferson and Villuneava. Then, when they call time out to set up an offensive play, you bring Flip back into the game.

This gets Solomon use to close out situations and will allow him to be more confident in earlier portions of a game. Its called developing a player.

By reese

November 26, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

I’m listening to Michael Redd discuss his rookie year where he had Ray Allen, Sam Cassel and Glenn Robinson as veterans.

It reminds me of AC Law’s situation with the hawks.

Mike Redd says that he learned how to be a scorer from Glenn Robinson. He learned how to be crafty from Sam Cassell. He learned how to be a shooter from Ray Allen.

Redd says that at the start of his 2nd year, George Karl said that he wouldn’t play much that year. That he would probably get about 5 minutes a game.

Then there was a game against Houston where he didn’t play the first half and he made 8 threes in the second half.

AC can learn to be crafty from Bibby, a scorer from Flip and a shooter from Joe. Do we have a future Michael Redd sitting on our bench???

By kwooden1

November 26, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Tough Win, nothing comes easy, but I think that is a good lesson to learn. Didn’t see the game, so I can’t make a really good assessment. Finally saw the last Wizards/Hawks game on DVR and this game felt kind of the same. Looks like Zaza’s shoulder is still giving him trouble, but Solo is coming in playing really well. It seems like Law is playing well in limited minutes, but if he gets 10-15 minutes a night that will be great. (No way Woodson gives him more!!) Overall this team is definitely improving and should get a shot in the arm when JS comes back.

GO HAWKS!!!!

By MannyT

November 26, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Lacsho It’s all good, but I have to toss you a MannyT-ism

I didn’t make the rules, but you gotta figure out how to make the most of them.

I am not asking you to be happy about Bibby. Don’t worry about his salary because neither you nor anyone else in the NBA that is not on the road to a criminal conviction, can do a darn thing about it. Bibby’s deal was negotiated years ago by another team. The current economic environment makes people look at it differently, but do you expect him to give money back? If you cut him tonight, you still have to pay him for the entire season. He is far more productive right now than Starbury who makes $5-6 million more this season. Bibby seems not to be a problem in the locker room. His $15 mil will come off the books at the end of the season and that gives Sund & the ASG lots of flexibility to make personnel moves.

Now, if we look at the reality of basketball, even if you find a team that wants him, you need to play him to get more value. The Knicks cannot get a nibble for Starbury with that big contract. However, if he were dropping 25 pts and 10 assists from the start of the season, someone might consider taking a chance on him? For all the playing Marbury does, he could donate a kidney tonight and sit on the bench tomorrow. he would be in no shape to play basketball and would not look much different than he does any other night. Someone might take a chance on Bibby because for all of his flaws, he can shoot the 3 and he has a good assist to turnover ratio.

If it is a question about his minutes, that goes to Woody, not Bibby.

I’ll be back with my odd take on tonight’s win.

BWAF

By ILL-logical

November 26, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

We won tonight but in doing so we lost Friday and Saturday’s games.JJ’s hurting bad;the right toe is hindering his hops and his explosion and since the current incumbant coach has not developed a plan for this contingency,we are in trouble.

The good news is that Solo is getting quality minutes and slowly but surely becoming an asset that will pay dividends later on town the road.

In the time it will take for Josh to get his timing and wind back as well as re-intergrating back into the flow there may be some slippage but the team has confidence and by March should be well on their way to winning big. Josh will help establish a running game to add to the current bump and grind that we have now. With a slightly lengthened rotation and increased confidence,the Hawks will be a force mejure.

By MannyT

November 26, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

I am glad that we got the win. That tops the list.

I am mad at ray. Had you not asked me about tonight’s game before hand, I would be a happier, naive fan. Clearly none of your smugglers have successfully snuak a clue into the Hawks coaching office.

If I could pick up in a few minutes that Bogut was out, Redd was out, and everyone on Orlando’s front line lived at the foul line on Monday against Milwaukee, why can’t the Hawks coaching staff?

Ohh, they went to a small line up. They played Charlie (I prefer playing small forward) Villanueva at center. What to do/ What to do? Can I phone a friend?

Were Zaza and Solo hurt or under the weather? Pound the ball inside relentlessly until they quit. Watch old video of Chuck Daly. If it works, keep running the same play until a) it stops working, b) the other team gives up or c) your guy gets too tired and needs to rest.

Clearly Al understood that he could dominate inside. I LOVED it when he dunked on Charlie the Flopper. This was a great chance to show Zaza some love and develop some confidence for him and Solo. But instead, we try to match small ball when our advantage is going inside. How long will it take for Woody to understand that he needs to play to his advantage. Where’s mykhalc when I need someone to drop a B-CUP (Brainless, Clueless, Useless, Period!) on the coaching staff.

If we dominate the game, then bad toe Joe can get some rest and AC can get some palying time.

Oh, Sautee you will look slimmer on the computer if you get a smaller monitor ;-)

BWAF

By Lacsho

November 27, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

MannY, you are the man. I’m glad we’re cool.

Happy holidays to my people. Please tell someone in your family that you appreciate them. and give them your love…

Happy Holiday’s Hawk”s Family

By richbrave

November 27, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

ASTRO JOE:

What do you do with a one-legged player who’s just been given a long-term 111 million contract and plays such thrilling offense he puts fannies in the seats by the thousands, but only plays defense with a cape and dressed as a matador.? How do you question the owner’s right to sign players or not and stay in the fold.? Why does a franchise allow a team’s chemistry to be compromised by a player usurping the roles of the coaches during the game.

The new team concept will be defense. What do you do with ARENAS.? He’s a liability on the defensive end. JORDAN pleaded and cajoled with his charges to play tough D, but some never did and that’s why he’s gone. The WIZARDS gave him a final salute last night. Why couldn’t they have done that in the 10 games they’ve lost.? They showed me that EDDIE’s demise really was on the players.

You can see the attitudes of opposing teams players. No respect for the WIZARDS game. Some editorials say as much after asking other team’s players about the caliber of the individuals on the floor for the WIZARDS(BUTLER excepted). If a new era is not at hand then nothing will ultimately be different in WIZARDS-land.

By MannyT

November 27, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this

richbrave You wait until he comes back and shows that he can still score like a 25 yr old Chippendale in a cougar bar.

Then you trade him to a team that really needs a lead scorer and is willing to give up some young talent to get him. It might take until the summer to get it done, but you do it. Winning will put people in the seats. I doubt many folks come to DC to see Gil in a suit.

Rebuild around Tough Juice!

By kirkinga

November 27, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this

Nice win for the team. Winning is always nice for most fans.

Dare I say it? Another solid game from Bibby. More often than not Bibby is going to give you a solid game and most importantly, value the ball in the most critical moments of a game. I think many here have forgotten just how many games the Hawks lost because of late turnovers before Bibby’s arrival.

It is clear now that Bibby joins Yunel Escobar as the most underappreciated athletes, well, at least here on the blogs.Both do their jobs well but people are trying to show them the exit even though there is no clear replacement that is better.I believe only after they’ve gone will their value to the teams be appreciated by honest fans.

Nonetheless, Hawks need to recharge for the upcoming back to back on the road.

Monster game again from Horford, he really filled some stats columns tonight. Strong contributions from Marvin and Flip as well. Acie is not a bust, but his play on the court still has not made a compelling case for more minutes.I think he will be a solid backup PG for many seasons to come.

Go Hawks!!

By HB Ando

November 27, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

How happy would Yunel be to make $15 million a year (rather than being trade fodder for the acquisition of Peavy)?

By Gypsyjoe

November 27, 2008 1:51 AM | Link to this

I think we should send speedy to the Bucks for Damon Jones. he is’nt even on the bench. They told him just to stay home, hell at least jones could hit some 3’s. What do you think SEKOU???????

By kirkinga

November 27, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this

Escobar will make that much or very close to it at some point in what should be an All Star career. Unfortunately it will not be here where people see him as a “hothead”.

Bibby has lost a step now I see. I wouldn’t say he’s among the top 6-7 PG’s any longer. But he is still one of the better PG’s and like Yunel, the best option at his position on his team.

In either case neither is appreciated fully, at least here on the blogs.It very may well be that neither will play in Atlanta come next season. I think then people will respect their value much more.

Go Hawks!!

By Hawks Fan In New Orleans

November 27, 2008 3:20 AM | Link to this

Another ugly win but whn are we to ungrateful. Happy Cranberry Sauce Day fellow Hawks Fans!!!

By BA

November 27, 2008 4:50 AM | Link to this

I don’t think Bibby is under appreciated. He is what he is- a consistent scorer, albeit not an All-Star. While his defense is certainly below average, he’s hardly the liability that folks say he is.

In any event, the more I watch these games, it’s almost like Billy Knight’s dream has come true anyway- Joe the point guard. He had nine dimes tonight- and that’s not at all unusual. And while Bibby is capable of making his own shot off the dribble, he’s far more effective these days hitting that wide-open three that Johnson often finds him for. It’s been an effective, if unconventional arrangement.

But what I’m really loving is the consistency of Marvin Williams game- and of course, these career-type nights for Horford are always a blast.

Escobar is a fine young shortstop. But unless our economy suddenly jumps out of the toilet I don’t think baseball OR basketball salaries are going to increase at the rate they have in recent years.

But even if they did, Yunel Escobar will never make 15 million dollars a year.

Ever.

By richbrave

November 27, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this

MANNY T:

You got that right. My sentiments exactly. And if he’s done let AIG or Lloyd’s of London pay most of the contract.

By Sautee

November 27, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

To all

I’m thankful for you, Hawks brothers and sisters.

and particularly thankful that we have a competitive team to root for and discuss.

happyhawk

It’s OK.Thanks for the acknowledgement.

kirknga

To me, Escobar right now is where Bibby was in Vancouver. At that point most of what he’d shown was a high talent level relative to the athletes around him.

Will Yunel become what Bibby was from 00-05? We Braves fans hope so.

And I for one, do NOT think that Bibby is unappreciated here. Most posters have acknowledged that we likely don’t make the playoffs without him last year.

He certainly is the steadiest hand on the tiller that we have on our team. But the numbers don’t lie, and the numbers showed last year that we got better on offense and worse on defense with Bibby. I had hoped that conditioning and his hand injury were part of that problem, but seeing him this year, I’ve come to the sad conclusion that yes, one of my favorites has lost a step. He’s still very clever, and fearless, but he needs to play like he did last night EVERY night to be even close to earning that $15.25M.

You were the one saying that Josh needed to play like an All-Star to show he’d earned his big pay day. How much more then does Bibby need to show?

Oh, and kirk… who are these fans that winning is NOT nice for?

I truly don’t understand that one. Aren’t we ALL Hawks fans here?

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Happy Birthday to me.

By Ken Stricikland

November 27, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

RAY-you called it right on your Sessions alert. Did anyone else notice the nasty look and attitude Zaza gave Woody when benched him that last time. Woodson also kept him firmly rooted to the bench and didn’t let him play another min. Woodson is starting to morph into his old self, with his old habits and his same approach towards dealing with his players.

Zaza seems to be developing the attitide that derailed his play last yr. I’m certain he’s frustrated with Woodson’s yo yoing him in and out of gms when he’s not playing at a high level. By the same token, it must be frustrating for him to see JJ, Bibby, Flip, Evans and even Horford play through unforced errors, poor DEF/OFF and still get extended mins and opportunities.

I’m sick and tired of watching teams dial up the DEF pressure on our OFF and it seems to just shut down. It doesn’t appear Woodson’s basic OFF has many, if any, options to counter DEF pressure. Therefore we resort to isolations, one on one play, and a lot of dribbling and standing around. Woodson seems to accomodate that approach by playing his vets, and best one on one players, like JJ, Bibby and Murray together a lot in these situations.

Woodson’s OFF mentality reminds me of Bobby Cox’s approach to scoring. Cox still embraces the old American League idea of depending on the 3run homer, which puts the onus on the players, rather than trying to manufacture runs, which puts the onus on the coaching and strategy of the manager. Bibby actually shot a layup, which is the 1st one of the season that I can remember.

I would love to see a starting lineup of PG-Acie, SG-JJ, SF-Marvin, PF-Smoove and C-Horford. Acie would break DEF down with his speed and quickness. JJ and Marvin would provide outside scoring while Horford and Smoove would provide inside scoring. Now that combination would provide a balanced OFF and solid DEF. Then you bring PG-Bibby, SG-Murray, SF-Evans, PF-Zaza and C-Solo off the bench. The 2nd unit would be your /outside/3pt shooting team with Zaza and Solo providing strong rebounding and interior DEF. Yes, I said Zaza and DEF. I think he would be much more effective playing DEF as a PF than as a C. PF’s usually initiate their OFF from the corners with their backs to the basket. Because of the sidelines, he would be required to defend roughly a 90 degree area, rather than the 180 degree area a Center has to defend. Zaza doesn’t seem to have the quickness, speed, reactions, jumping ability, timing and/or length to compensate as a shot blocker, and defend the paint, like a Mumtombo does.

I love the aggressive manner in which Solo goes after shots, as well as rebounds, and the aggressive way Acie goes to the basket, with a minimum of dribbling, and plays DEF. When Smoove returns, we should have he and Zaza manning PF, Horford and Solo manning C, Marvin and Evans manning SF, Acie and Bibby manning PG with JJ and Murray manning SG.

By richbrave

November 27, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

KEN STRICK:

So sorry to here our patient has a relapse of his old malaise - stick to the system with one-on-one players. I was afraid the cure would not take. Expect a HAWKS dropping winning percentage unless MIKE resurrects his newly lost persona.

By MannyT

November 27, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Ken Woody had an old flashback. He thought Zaza was Royal Ivey ;-)

Start him, sit him. Repeat.

BWAF

By doc

November 27, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

kirk, i guess you arent getting much love over at MIB blog for your stance on escobar so you are bringing it here. heh heh, joking around now and dont go getting too defensive. i think we need a pitcher more than a shortstop that is mercurial and before his time and a bit similar to needing a big more than an over the hill pg. just for comparison sake and certainly not saying that bibby and escobar are not good. definitely will say, neither have or will ever be worth 15 mill and to say otherwise is smoking crack as my good friend ando has taught me to say in times like this.

felt last night the hawks kept the bucks in the game rather than the other way around. flip really worries me as does jj who looks miserable going into the lane. seems like there is no one on this team that can go into the lane and maintain control of the ball. bibby doesnt even try it any more and that is here his savvy lies in that he knows his limits rather than how to protect the ball and is more of why he has a low t o rate. i really like the way he is shooting the ball and using the in pass to get his position to make a shot. at some point someone is going to come up with enough defense with a quick defender to shut him down the way rondo shut him down. simple stuff deny him the ball and the offense will stop there..

By ES

November 27, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

The Hawks are finally starting to beat the teams they should be beating. Tough game ahead in Toronto though. Chris Bosh has been unstoppable.

By doc

November 27, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

sautee, happy birthday OLD MAN.

yup getting to look fatter and fatter on the old blog.

By Sautee

November 27, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Thanks, doc

By JerryWest

November 27, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Ken Stricikland

Nice post at 10:44

By richbrave

November 27, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

TAPSCOTT 2 in 30.

By Ramon

November 27, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

I think the Hawks should let Bosh go for 50 and 18. The Raptors winning requires more of a team effort than Bosh dominating. By letting Bosh ‘get his’, you’re keeping Horford and Zaza out of foul trouble, while putting more emphasis on their perimeter threats. Even if Bosh scores 50 points, they will still need 45+ more from somewhere else.

I also think the Hawks should feed Horford more on the block, to see if they can possibly get Bosh to work more on the defensive side. This game is a great game for JJ to get more rest for his injury. So take some of the offensive pressure off of him. If Marvin had more handles, I would love to see a two man game with him and Horford while Smoove is out.

Sekou, I’m curious to know, do you think not re-signing Marvin before the season will come back to bite the Hawks again?

By HB Ando

November 27, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Coincidental to the fringe conversation about Bargnani and Marvin, tomorrow night ought to be an interesting chance to see them play against each other. The Hawks will be without Josh, and the Raps will be without O’Neal. As a result, both young ‘uns are likely to have much more prominent roles.

The real story will be how we handle Bosh and Calderon, but the secondary byline will be interesting as well.

I’ll go out on a limb, just to fire up some folks, and suggest that Bargnani will have better numbers than Marvin tomorrow night………..

I’ll also take the Raps, at home, in a close outcome.

By ray

November 27, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Sittin’ a little pretty at 9-5, and that’s good considering that we could’ve folded against more than one team with some of the adversity we’re facing.

Right now we’re definitely better than Milwaukee. We should have beaten them by 12 or more, but I’m not complaining. My only point is that we have to play better, particularly against teams like Toronto.

Bibby had another solid game, and we needed it from him. If you ask me, we just need to do whatever it takes to get him open, where he excels. The guy doesn’t drive, so let’s just leave that alone. Get him open, even if it’s just by a step or two. He hits shots, and we’ve been needing that shooter. As for pg duties, others have called it right: Joe has pretty much retained that role. Bibby isn’t getting much in the way of assists. And that’s fine as long as he’s getting those open jumpers (especially those dagger 3s). May as well stop harping on the man for something he clearly cannot do.

Al had a great game, and were it not for some bone-headed coaching, I don’t see why he doesn’t score 30. Heh. The more things change, the more they stay the same, I guess. Anyway, Al brought the energy we were in desperate need of.

Speaking of energy, that seems to be one of the bigger problems. Why aren’t we getting it from a lot of our “veterans”? Why is is always the young guys? You know, the ones JJ was complaining about running wild last year?

I’m glad JJ was able to rack up several assists, because he has been looking like anything but the dominant force he started the season as. I don’t know what his deal is, but as others have noted, he doesn’t look like the all-star right about now. Oh well, everybody goes through a funk now and then. At least other guys are stepping up. That’s what this team has really needed over the years.

Marvin has done an exemplary job of this. Dude has stepped up very nicely on a number of occasions since Josh went down. With the team at full strength, I don’t think he’ll ever be a 18 or 20 point per game scorer. And we probably don’t need him to be.

Although this must grate like hell on the nerves of the Josh Smith haters (who still don’t want to give him his due), but I think we see once again why we miss him. Energy, plain and simple. He brings it every night, and he and Horford feed off of the energy that each of them brings. Know what? I think the whole team feeds off of it. Him being on the court just makes things easier for so many guys. I can’t wait until he returns, although he’ll have to go through the dreaded Woodson “reprogramming”. Heh. Josh is tough. He’ll be fine.

It will be interesting to see what strategies will be employed against the Raptors. We won’t have Smith out there to tag team with Horford against their frontline, so my hopes are high that Woodson lets Solo and Zaza get some good minutes against them. Bosh is going to get his. The idea is to keep O’Neal (who may or may not be injured and therefore out for this game) from going off, Calderon from going crazy, and Bargnani and Kapono from shooting us into a coma.

We can do it. But we have to play better than we did against Milwaukee.

By HB Ando

November 27, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

East Watch:

There’s still a good bit of mediocrity, but looking at the standings, as of tonight, there are only two teams, out of 15, who are clearly out contention: Washington and Charlotte. The Bucks and the Pacers are on the fence, but the Bucks have been without Redd for the last 3 weeks, and the Pacers continue to be without Dunleavy (though if he’s really not coming back any time soon, that 20-5-5 will be hard to replace, long-term).

The Hawks are still at the upper tier, at this stage. But they simply cannot take a night off, or fall into the trap of believing their own hype. They need to maintain a “blue collar” mentality, recognizing that their effort and intensity, in starting the season 6-0, was far more defining than any sense that they have arrived as Eastern Conference elite.

The return of a healthy Josh should be just what the doc(tor) ordered, as he clearly is the X factor for this franchise.

Tomorrow’s game should be a serious battle. Going into Toronto, and decisively winning, would be a strong statement. Failing to show up would be conversely disappointing, as expectations for consistency are the next level we’re all looking to see.

By HB Ando

November 27, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Another curious observation: the West only has 8 teams above .500, at this early season stage. Obviously, last year the Warriors missed the playoffs with 48 wins.

With the migration of some solid players, from the West, to the East, are we looking at a rebalancing?

Very early, but worth watching over the course of the season…….

Hope everyone had a wonderful, and safe, Thanksgiving.

I’m thankful for many things, but the health of my first child, now 6 and 1/2 months old, stands out.

By ray

November 27, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Ando,

Why does everything have that Vegas sound to it with you? I’ll take the Raps, at home, in a close outcome.

Anyway, we have to watch out for Bargnani. He’ll be a bigger threat on the perimeter than anywhere else. I shudder at the thought of defending a 7-foot jump shooter without a guy like Josh. Although, Solo has proven that he can defend out that far….if given the chance and the playing time. Still, Bargnani is a unique threat. And Kapono is a quick shooter that has a knack for getting open. Despite the fact that he doesn’t have to be open to do what he does best.

MannyT,

My bad. I tainted your fun factor with my analytical approach. Trust me, I have fun watching too, but I can’t help noticing things. You know how it is. It’s not my fault that Woody does things that don’t make much sense to many of us. I, too was confused by his statements about the Bucks playing small ball….

Well, having finally read the article, I see that Joe’s problem is the sore foot. Hmmm. Well, that isn’t going to change anytime soon, unfortunately. How do we get him some rest? I know Woody’s not going to do it, not with Josh being out as well. Gotta help him out somehow.

By doc

November 27, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

i too am thankful for so much especially for my children who got a kick out of the game last night and family time today to the members of the sekou liars table.

i can also say i am very thankful that the basg have not pressed the panic button to bring in either starbury or ai. talented yes and headless as they come.

By HB Ando

November 27, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

Ray, I didn’t say I’d take the Raps AND give the points………..

Me, I don’t know much about Vegas. But if anyone ever wants to organize a First Annual Beat Blog No-Limit Hold-Em Cash Tournament, I’ll be happy to buy in and offer myself as dead money (assuming that we’d be buying in for nothing less than a couple hundred bucks).

By ray

November 27, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

Ando,

That’s exactly it. We have to maintain a high level of intensity much like we did in that 6-1 start. Josh brings more than most, and is only matched by Horford in that department. Again, they feed off of each other when it comes to energy, intensity, and many aspects of the game.

Lose the intensity, lose the game. At least against decent or good teams. The reason we’ve won some of our recent games is because one or two (sometimes 3 or 4) guys have stepped up the intensity at different times during those games. Without it, we look like we have in the past…listless and running JJ and Bibby ISOs. Not a winning combo. Of course, you could say this is all overanalyzing….but I think honest fans with working brains know better…

Even without O’Neal, Toronto is a good test.

By richbrave

November 27, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

WIZARDS disrobed but mercifully not trained by the MAGIC. ED TAPSCOTT’s charges lose by 15, 105-90. The offensive game breaks their teeth on DWIGHT HOWARD as BLATCHE scores five points before fouling out with five to play in the fourth. McGEE draws five and THOMAS two. Almost all of the 12 fouls at the center position were against HOWARD who did pretty much anything he wanted against the ‘ZARDS offensively and defensively. It was a man against boys exhibition.

HEDO TURKELOU was almost as dominant from the four slot. Of course he benefited from HOWARD’s play as JAMISON was helped by BLATCHE and McGEE in the WARRIORS match. This ORLANDO team is no NELLIE-ball bunch. They come to play and didn’t ease off in the last few minutes. It was obvious they wanted to embarress the WIZARDS and they did. WIZARDS shot more long two and three’s without success although wide-open in many instances. The rebounding of course disappeared especially on the offensive end. It was one and done. A very familiar scenerio.

As CHUCK BARKLEY said, “The WIZARDS are just NOT a good team.” And he didn’t even add “right now.” The effort was there but the MAGIC just negated it in every facet of the game. With one exception. “TOUGH JUICE” tallies 25 and continues his ALL-STAR performance.

Against average or worse teams the D.C. club has a chance. Against top teams like the MAGIC they have no chance without a resurrected ARENAS and a recovered HAYWOOD. None, no matter who is coach.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 27, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

The Raptors are playing a little better than they were when we beat them, but they are without JO. They are not gonna out-physical the Hawks. If the Hawks close out on the perimeter shooters, and Al Horford can stay out of foul trouble, I think the Hawks will win. I’m not too concerned about the likes of Bargnani and Calderon heating up if the Hawks can play disciplined defense. Al staying out of foul trouble is easier said than done though, since he’s probably gonna be matched up on Bosh for significant amounts of time.

By HB Ando

November 27, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

doc, looks like the Knicks are going to buy Marbury out. Which pretty much every team in the league expected. What will be interesting is to see who will go after him, after he’s released.

As far as the BASG goes, with spending, there have been quite a few folks who have suggested that the improved performance, and general, subsequent, assumptions about the impact that would have on increased ticket sales, and, thus, supposed increases in revenues, I found that YTD, average home attendance is up a grand total of 700 seats per game, from 16,280, last year, to 16,980 so far this year. And my bet would be that they’ve lost a chunk of higher priced, corporate ticket sales, but seen an off-setting increase, greater than 700/game, of lower-priced, single game ticket sales, such that overall ticket revenues ARE NOT higher, despite a gross increase of 700/game. But that’s just a guess.

Some how, I’m skeptical that the additional 700 tickets will cover the extra $8 million in payroll.

Still soundly convinced that finances will lead the ASG to trade Bibby before the deadline.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 27, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, and after watching the early game today I’m not looking forward to seeing the Hawks play Orlando. As if Dwight Howard wasn’t a meast already, he actually has consistent and reliable post moves now. That dude is pretty much unstoppable unless you hack him all game.

By HB Ando

November 27, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Najeh, is a “meast” anything like a “milf”?

Just wondering…..

By Ken Stricikland

November 28, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

We can win the next 2gms if Woodson doesn’t allow his personal issues with certain players to become an issue and overplays his vets. You don’t necessarily stop a player as big, talented and versatile as Bosh, but you can try and force him to get his pts from the outside. The same holds true for Calderon. With their bigs, Bargnani and Bosh, primarily shooting jumpshots, we should be able to dominate the boards and run the ball down their throats.

Acie and Calderon should be a good matchup.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

Hahaha… “meast” = man + beast, it’s what they used to call Sean Taylor when he played for the Redskins. Although I’m sure MannyT or one of the other acronymically inclined posters on this blog would be happy to come up with an acronym for “meast” too.

By MannyT

November 28, 2008 2:59 AM | Link to this

Najeh I’m not working hard during the holidays. I’ll take man + beast and turn it around Emeril style.

Beast as Man = BAM

I thought Marbury had something going as long as he did little but looked cooperative. I am confident that there is a NY lawyer looking for a clause in that contract to minimize payments due to his conduct. Why risk both your $21.9 mil this season and much of your next contract over some BS. Maybe he has been overexposed to the foreign chemicals in those $15 sneakers.

By BA

November 28, 2008 6:30 AM | Link to this

Richbrave, I watched that Wizards game last night, and Barkley was right. Do ya’ll forsee a firesale along the lines of the Knicks this year, or the “Rasheed a Hawk for a day” year down here? They’ll regret tuning out Jordan once they’re packing their bags to sit on the bench in San Antonio or Dallas, etc.

As was the case last season, Atlanta will need a rejuvinated Pachulia for the stretch run, and it’s unfortunate to see what happened in the first half Wednesday. At least our backcourt reserves (Law of late) are panning out. And at least Jones has become a servicable big off the pine. Now if he can just gain about sixty pounds and learn how to score…

Ramon is right. Let Bosh go off and focus on the help and perimeter defense. If you let these cats start hitting threes, it will make for a long night in Toronto.

By richbrave

November 28, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

BA:

No, that’s not POLLIN’s style. And that’s why I’m so glum in regard to the WIZARDS prospects near-term. The final rebuild piece will be if they corral that 7’3’ 265 junior center from Connecticut. Then they will slowly winnow out half the team over a three year period. By then BUTLER will be 31 and all the older guys gone, leaving McGEE, BLATCHE, McGUIRE, YOUNG, and ARENAS(30) IF he recovers his form.

By Sautee

November 28, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

Ken S

Acie and Calderon should be a good matchup.

Yeah, Ken it should be a good matchup.

Unfortunately, Woody rarely puts Acie in the game to match up against starting point guards.

So, expect Acie to get a couple of 3-4 minute bursts against their second string.

Without Josh inside, and with Acie on the bench, look for Calderon to take it to the hoop and create kickout 3 point shots for Bargnani and Kapono. And layups for Bosh.

If Joe is not the Joe of the first 2 weeks, we’ll lose this game without somebody really stepping up. If his foot is bothering him, will he be able to switch off and guard Calderon, as he did the first time we played them?

BUT, all that said, if we play with more defensive intensity overall than we’ve shown lately, we can make it a game.

By Raptors fan in TO

November 28, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Hi Everyone,

Interesting to read the pre-game comments ahead of tonight’s game in Toronto. I work across from the Air Canada Centre, but I don’t think there are any tickets left :(

While you guys sport a nifty 9-5 record, we have come back down to earth since the last time we met (you guys were 4-0 and we were 3-1). The difference is Jermaine O’Neal’s knee injury.

I saw someone post that the team was only 2-5 with Bargnani as SF —- make no mistake, that has more to do with injuries to Calderon and O’Neal than Bargnani’s play —- Andrea has actually been rebounding and driving the hoop much better the past five games (see his 29 point performance last week, for all those who still think he is the worst 1st pick of all time). But take JO out, and the Raptors are still REALLY soft in the paint. So soft that a good high school team could score 50 points in the paint against them.

O’Neal likely won’t play much tonight (if at all), belief around here is that he will be rested, given his injury history. Thus, Al Horford is going to have a field day. Couple that with our weakened perimeter defence (Calderon is still not fully recovered from a hamstring injury), it does not bode well for a Raptors team that had to claw and fight past the Bobcats at home Wednesday.

I predict the game will go to OT if Toronto’s perimeter shooting heats up. Otherwise, if the Hawks can contain the Raptors wings and the pick-and-roll, this is going to be a 20+ point blowout for Atlanta. I’ll be back to see if I was wrong :-)

By Mike is back

November 28, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Ken, not defending Woody on your comment about Zaza, but in fairness to Woody, he knows that Zaza is not a shoot blocker, check the stats, they don’t lie. That’s why he has been going with Solo. I have no complaints with Zaza. he has been playing like gladiator on the boards. I think like Joe, Zaza is playing hurt. You can clearly see a difference in both of their games. Despite Woody reluctance, he will be force to go to Acie, and give RandMo another shot if he wants to continue to squeeze out victories until Smoove gets back. 

Ray, Woody is starting to make me nervous as a rabbit trap in shoebox again with this old style of coaching. This team is built to play high-energy uptempo basketball. That’s when we reel of six straight victories.  Smoove and AL are the guys that push the ball up floor off of rebounds. Their the fuel that makes this team go.  Woody got to allow these other guys chance to help the team. I don’t know if you are Astro Joe commenting how Acie is used when Flip is on the floor.  Man that play where Acie is just standing out there doing nothing but watching Flip has got to go. 

ANDO, I hope you are right about Bibby being traded before the trade dead line. Clearly Acie is ready to assume a bigger role on this team. I would hate to see Bibby go before season end, but if Sund can get something of value to improve the team, then I’m all for it. 

When we play up-tempo ball guys start flying around, the ball is moving around, no one is standing around watching the Joe and Flip show. That’s what killing us right know. The ball stop moving. I think another blogger commented about Snapper Jones analysis of the Hawks struggles on offense.  He gave a great analysis of the lack of ball movement, misdirection and cutters slicing through the lane to counter act the defense teams deploy on our perimeter scorers, especially  Joe. Snapper Jones said you gotta get Acie more minutes, he can help open up the offense. 

Woody has relied on his veterans players to a fault and he has reverted back to the dreaded BIG B offense with one on one isolations plays. Of course the Big B stands for BOOOOOOOOOOOOORING!!!!!!!!!!!!  He was crying about the lack of Bigs on the team, and now it appears he’s all but given up on Morris after14 games into a 82 game season.

Woody “CMON MANNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!”  you got the Hawks off to great start, don’t digress folk, give these young guys a chance!!!!!Heh Heh

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By ray

November 28, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Considering that we too had to fight and claw past the Bobcats, this should be interesting….

By Ken Stricikland

November 28, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

SAUTEE-where would I be if you weren’t around to put my fantasies into proper perspective. I should have said it WOULD BE A GOOD MATCH IF, and you know the rest. I haven’t been this excited about up coming Hawks gms since the Mumtombo, SSmith days. What’s most exciting to me is the fact they’re going to get better as the season progresses and we return to full strength.

At this point, I’m absolutely convinced that Woodson is a fair weather HC. When the team is winning and going good, he’ll allow them to play the style that best suits them. But when the 1st sign of adversity appears, he will revert to those ingrained habits that he feels serves him best, rather than allowing them to play through their issues. Someone in the Hawks organization needs to inform him that the Atlanta Hawks aren’t an accumulation of kindergarden players that needs to be placed in TIMEOUT and punished whenever someone p** him off, for whatever reason.

I’m very pleased with what this team has accomplished considering the adversity they’ve had to overcome. However, I would love to see how much more they can accomplish with maximum utilization of their talents, which Woodson approach and attitude will not allow. At any rate, GOOD LUCK TONIGHT YOU HIGH FLYING HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

By Sautee

November 28, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Ken S

Sorry to step on that fantasy.

And yeah, I’m excited too. About the Hawks and the Falcons. It’s just so nice to go into every game thinking you have a decent chance to win.

I mean, I’d still watch and root root root for the home team, but it’s just different when you don’t think it’s a lost cause.

Ahhh…Hope and delayed dismay. Gotta love it.

And you’re right on the money about Woodson’s “fair weather tendencies”. And it gives a whole new meaning to a Hawks “timeout”. Poor Acie.

By Jay

November 28, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

I think that Bibby is only around for this season. I wouldn’t trade him unless the deal was just unbelievable. The Hawks need that cap room for themselves. We should hold on to him and see what we can do in the play-offs with this squad healthy. As for the future I would love to see the Hawks make a move for Javaris Crittendon. I think splitting the minutes with him and Law, especially with having Flip, that would be really nice for the future. I also really like Javel McGee. He would be a perfect fit here. Then we could move Horford to the 4. Just a thought.

By cp

November 28, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Chris Bosh has been beasting lately so I wouldn’t be shocked if he put up 30 plus tonight . Josh is the only guy on our team who defended him well but even with that said Bosh still gets his regardless. What truly scares me is our defense against the 3pointer. For some reason we give up a bunch of open jumpers. The Raptors are a good shooting team. If we are lax out there against those jumpers it could be a long night.

By Ken Stricikland

November 28, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

SAUTEE-the difference between the Falcons and the Hawks is ownership, management, coaching and forward vision. The Falcons are taking steps to secure their core players by signing them to contract extensions. Sund likes to sit on his butt and let someone else make the move and the try to counter. It worked with Josh, but we lost Chills as a result of that approach.

As early as it is in the season, Solo and Marvin have proven they should be considered integral parts of our future. Therefore, they should be offered contract extensions before officially becoming FA’s to avoid another Childress situation.

Consider this. If we continue to win 9 out of every 14gms, we will end up with 51-53 wins. I’ll take that any day.

MIKE IS BACK-I agree, Zaza is not a shotblocker and that’s why I would use him as a PF instead of C. He’s a very good midrange shooter, but for some reason he won’t take that shot. Solo should be the 1st C off the bench and Morris should the 3nd backup and rotate between PF and C.

Zaza’s facing a situation that’s simular to the one faced by an old Hawk named JKoncak. Koncak had a strong 2nd half of the season after replacing KWillis at PF, due to a season ending knee injury. Detroit signed him to a FA contract, which the Hawks matched, and he never lived up to that 2nd half performance again. Part of the reason for his failure was after Willis returned, Koncak was used almost exclusively at center, instead of PF, which is where he played his best ball. I believe Zaza’s is a better fit at PF, which would allow him to maximize his attributes while minimizing his liabilities. Solo is a better fit at C and is the equivelent of any 7 footer because of his long arms, timing and jumping ability.

These are things a competent HC would or should notice, unless he’s hungup on, and/or preoccupied with, personal ego driven issues.

By Show me state

November 28, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Is it true that Mike Bibby was gonna be traded earlier this season before the Hawks won 5 straight games?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-conleyoutlaw112808&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

By jtb

November 28, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Mike is back

When the Hawks won 6 straight they had the 2nd best defense in the league. Second to the Lakers who were also undefeated. They only topped 100 points twice and won 2 games scoring less than 90 points. In 3 of the Hawks 5 losses they have topped 100 points. What about that leads you to believe that an up tempo style is what the Hawks need?

By Ken Stricikland

November 28, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

SHOW ME STATE-if that article has any validity to it, it proves the Hawks aren’t opposed to trading Bibby. It also shows that after training camp, Sund was convinced that Acie had improved enough to either handle the starting PG duties or be the #1 backup. It’s also a strong sign that Bibby won’t like be resigned, even if he’s not traded.

With a slashing penetrating SG like Roy, Bibby would be a perfect compliment. His matador DEF would also benefit by having BIG’s like Oden, Pryzbilla, Frye and Aldridge protecting the basket. I’m curious to know who and/or what we would have gotten if the trade had been made.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

I would think that if we were gonna make a Bibby trade with the Blazers, chances are we’d be getting either Steve Francis or Raef LaFrentz’ expiring contracts, along with either Jerryd Bayless or Sergio Rodriguez and a future pick. I probably wouldn’t be completely opposed to a move like that looking down the road, although it would hurt our chances this year.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

Another thing about that article… considering the Blazers’ glut of point guards and the Grizzlies’ abundance of forwards, a Conley for Outlaw swap makes no sense at all. Conley has been completely unimpressive and I don’t see how he’d be a significant upgrade over Blake, Rodriguez or Bayless, and Outlaw’s not gonna bump Rudy Gay from his starting spot.

By Sautee

November 28, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Ken S

Your 4:31 post was GREAT!.

I agree with every idea given. And yeah, when the Falcons signed their soon-to-be FAs, I almost posted the obvious difference between the two front office approaches.

I DO think it’s a little different with a 53 man roster as opposed to 15, 3 of which will always be minimum salaried practice players. But the approach is solid IF you’re sure about the production of the player matching the salary.

Of course some here would say we’re old fools, who are willing to throw away money.

About the Bibby “trade” with Portland, I expect we’d have taken Blake (and likely LaFrentz) and that he and Acie would have tag-teamed the 1. And I would have been just fine with that.

By Samuel

November 28, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

Just landed,

Back from the MOTHER LAND(Mississippi). Mama’s turkey and dressing is as good as ever. Macaroni and cheese, string beans, Pineapple/coconut upside down cake. OMG!!! She’s still #1 in the power rankings.

I still don’t get it. The hate on Woody and Bibby. We’re 9-5 and Woody still can’t coach and Bibby still is getting traded. So what does that make the other 19 coaches, PGs and teams looking up at us right now?

That’s cool though. You guys keep hate’n. It seems to be the key to us staying on top somehow. Doc, how does that Karma stuff work?

By Lacsho

November 28, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Whatz Good Fellas,

There’s one thing I hate about our team. We always seem to let the hot man cool down. If Bibby is on fire, we need to run him off of screens. What really gives, that’s common sense basketball.

By Sautee

November 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Lacsho

That’s because JJ must be fed just about every other time down. Seriously, start keeping count. It’s amazing how little variation there is on O.

You’d think that Woody would have learned from the effectiveness of Rip about motion on Offense. I guess not.

By rms

November 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Dand man I hate Mike Woodson. Why the heck is Murray running the point and not Acie. All he does is pass the ball off and go hide in a corner and watch what happens. He aint going to learn to be a point guard that way Woody. Play the guy and stop being such a veteran player coach. Man, this guy is the worse. He makes me hate the Hawks.

By Samuel

November 28, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

I’m not seeing this great lock down defense from acie. Calderon is killing him. Once again, Bibby goes out the opposition goes on a run.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

It doesn’t take too much creativity to realize that you’re playing against a team that doesn’t have a whole lot of post presence besides Bosh, so it would be smart to run more post-ups for Horford and to a lesser extent Marvin Williams. Standing around jacking up jumpers against a team that’s soft on the inside is an idiotic strategy.

Nice play by Acie on that last offensive possession, setting up Marvin with the dunk.

By ray

November 28, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Samuel,

If you want to call an honest-to-goodness article about the Hawks talking to the Blazers about trading Bibby hating, then march on up to the Hawks front office with your protest sign. ‘Cause uhhh…last time I looked around, none of us here on this blog had anything to do with it, or any other franchise decisions….

Hate for you to find out like that, but apparently the powers that be are rather open to the idea, at least before they saw how this team played (balls to the freakin’ wall) in the first 5-6 games. I wonder how they feel about it now though, having seen us struggle without Smith. Perhaps they see even better now what the real deal is. And yet, I’d still not make a move right now until Josh came back. Then I’d see how the next 10 games went with him reintegrated into the lineup. I think the story is telling itself…though it is not complete yet.

Najeh,

As far as I’m concerned, that’s called asset management and planning for the future. I understand what you’re saying about our chances being hurt for this year, but is this team, this year, not a playoff team without Bibby? Not entirely sure about that (although I’m sure some people are). Also, Rodgriguez and Bayless are very quick guys. One gets as many dimes as you want from a guy and is a true playmaker. The other is more of a scorer…with Devin Harris-like tendencies when it comes to driving to the hole. Planning for the future, my friend. And as much as I’ve been in Acie’s corner…I’m not sure he could unseat either guy, despite them being newcomers. Sometimes it calls for taking a chance on the immediate future, for the sake of the long term. But this is no time to act like we’re playing for a championship. We’re not. We’re trying to prove we belong in the playoffs.

The big question is where does our future lie with the point guard position? It does NOT lie with Bibby, and I don’t care what anybody says. So where do we proceed from here? And really….does management really consider this a top priority, or are there bigger fish to fry than a franchise on the rise?

By rms

November 28, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

Nice post ray…I still hate Woodson though :)

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

I’ve been a Rodriguez fan since before he came into the league. I haven’t seen Bayless at all since he played in college, and even then I only saw him a couple of times, so I can’t make an informed judgment on him. Like I said, it wouldn’t be a bad trade, and certainly either one has the skill set to be a starting point guard in this league. The reason it would hurt the Hawks this year is because Bibby, for all his faults, still has plenty of experience, knows how to limit turnovers and bad shots, and can make big shots in big moments when called upon. I don’t necessarily trust Rodriguez, Bayless, or Acie Law for that matter to replace those qualities. Could the Hawks make the playoffs again this year if they made such a trade? Yeah, they probably could, but they would probably have to sneak in as an 8th seed again.

I hear what you’re saying about asset management though. I think in the end, the DASG probably realizes how much of last year’s momentum they blew by letting Childress walk, and doesn’t want to repeat the same thing with Bibby. The way the economy is right now and considering how hard it is even for good Atlanta sports teams to sell out, I doubt the DASG wants to risk alienating any more possible fans. And on top of that I think there’s gotta be some strong feeling within the organization (and I would agree) that not only is Acie Law the future, but learning from Bibby for a full season can only be good for his development.

By Samuel

November 28, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Yea, Yea, Yea. We’re not talking about the future, we’re talking about now. Good thing we brought that Bibby guy tonight.

By Lacsho

November 28, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Hmmm am I the only one noticing Solo is a better match up on Bosh? Is it really that hard to see? Najeh, we beat ourselves by taking an excessive amount of jump shots. We should be driving the ball down their throats.

Whatever happen to the fastbreak?

Ray, I feel you, sometimes you have to take a chance, however; Ken was right, Sund is a slow mover. The team will look a lot better when Smoove comes back.

I can’t front though; they did a great job by capturing the league going into half-time. Let’s hope Bosh keeps shooting jumpers.

Man I just devoured a plate of leftovers. The food was great yesterday, but the food was really off the chain tonight…

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

As far as this game is concerned… the Hawks played great defense in the 2nd half, but despite the 27 points scored, the half-court offense still left something to be desired. The huge difference I notice between these two teams is that the Raptors always have someone cut towards the hoop on every play, and always look to get the ball inside on every play. The Hawks don’t consistently do either of these things, and like I said earlier, against a team that plays soft interior defense that is just plain stupid. I’d like to see more of Acie Law taking people off the dribble, and post-ups from Joe, Marvin and Al.

Zaza is doing a great job crashing the boards today.

By Sautee

November 28, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

Samuel

Who said Acie was a lock down defender?

Never heard that claim here, myself.

Whatever you may think of him, he moves his feet better than any other guard we have. Mostly what I saw was him getting picked and the picker’s man failing to rotate.

By Samuel

November 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Ray,

I don’t exactly call two lines by some guy named Wornarowski, “honest-to- goodness. Anybody can write and article about a rumor on the internet.

I don’t wonder how they feel about it now since Josh has been out. I know. They see that without Bibby, we would be struggling big time. Struggling to make .500.

Again, I know you guys would love nothing more than to see us move Bibby, plug Acie in as a starter and watch us struggle so that you can rag Woody even more. It’s so obvious. You can’t hide it.

Not happening. Sorry!

By Lacsho

November 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Great job by capturing the lead.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

Man, Zaza is just doing an outstanding job in this game. I wish they could capitalize on the great defense they’re playing to increase this lead.

By ray

November 28, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

I see Bibby is having another monster game against Toronto. They said last time that he always plays well against Toronto.

One thing that definitely makes Bibby play better: an energized JJ. Otherwise, Bibby wouldn’t be able to get open. And we all know what that means. Like I said last time, get Bibby open whatever you do. So he can do the thing he does best…

Samuel, Calderon blows by anybody but the bigger, longer JJ. Acie isn’t any worse than Bibby. Bet he wouldn’t let him blow by him for 30+ minutes, but I know you ain’t tryin’ to hear that anyway.

Anyhow, they go on runs when Bibby ain’t in the game because Bibby is scoring and the backups aren’t. Because once again, the offense is about either Bibby or JJ…..

By Samuel

November 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Ah, JJ isn’t exactly energized. Ray, you must not be watching the game. The only energy comming from anybody tonight is from: Solo, Bibby and Evans. Every body else is pretty much stinking up the place.

By ray

November 28, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Samuel,

Blah, blah, blah. Until you hear me say what you accuse me of thinking, don’t believe your own hype. I said give the man 20 minutes a game, not start him. I have avoided bashing Woody. Mostly all I’ve said is that the offense is often stagnant and predictable. But that doesn’t just involve coaching, it involves player execution. Guys have to trust each other. They aren’t doing that all the time.

Good thing we brought that Bibby guy tonight. Yeah you’re right. Where was he against Cleveland? Answer that. I’ll wait.

Yeah, anybody can write about rumors. After all, it couldn’t have been anything but a rumor, right? I mean, no way does management ever consider trading Bibby. Ever. It’s a possibility. Sorry that’s hard to swallow. Some people didn’t think Iverson would get traded either….but as I said before, you ain’t tryin’ to hear any of this…

By JohnGTFan

November 28, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

It’s been great this year how Atlanta has picked up JJ on his off-nights…but d&mn Enough is enough with his awful shooting nights. If he needs another day of rest, just leave him on the bench!!!

By ray

November 28, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Lacsho,

Thing is, I’m not sweatin’ Bibby going anywhere. Not one bit. I think he’s going only because of money issues. I point out things about his game that may or may not sway a decision. It ain’t something personal with Bibby for me. I’m happy to have him as long as we can maximize his ability to hit the open jumper and make the occasional nice pass to a guy for a score. Again, I want this team to win. And I don’t want to see us back in the pg hunt later on after a one year rental. But I’m not making the decisions. And to be honest, if they for some reason resigned him for another 3-4 seasons, I’m still a Hawk fan. But you just can’t tell that to some people. They keep hearing other voices or something….

By terrell barron

November 28, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Acie is Woody’s little whipping boy. It’s so freakin obvious that he did’nt want BK to draft a pg. He’s determined to show BK that he was right. Even when he does play him, he puts him in with Flip, so he can just pass him the ball and get the hell out of the way. Pathetic.

By Samuel

November 28, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Iverson. He’s always on the Block.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Why the hell was Zaza not on the floor more in the 4th, when he did such a good job on Bosh in the first three quarters and dominated the glass?

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Apparently the only clutch shot Marvin can make is the corner 3…

By terrell barron

November 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Wtf was that Marvin? We’re down 3.

By terrell barron

November 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

When was the last time JJ hit a 3?

By preston

November 28, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Hated the play selection comming out of the timeout with 39 seconds……why not trying to drive the lane for a quick 2 and maybe a foul instead of passing the ball around, draining the clock and looking for an open 3…………and when that didnt work we shoot a ackward 2 with 16 seconds left in the game???? I’m sorry but that was a terrible offensive selection.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

If Joe’s injury is bothering him so much (and clearly it is bothering him, looking at the way he’s shooting) maybe it’s a good idea to give him a day off tomorrow at Washington, and then come back full strength next Wednesday vs Memphis. That gives him five days of rest to get better, and it comes in a game that the Hawks may be able to win without him anyway.

By Samuel

November 28, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Guys fought hard. I’m proud of their effort. Again, we missed Josh Big time. Bosh is good but he does not dominate like that with Josh on the floor.

Still 9-6 with Wash, mem and NY comming up. I would continue to let Josh heal for another week if necessary. We can win all three of these games without him.

I’m really concerned about JJ though. Something definately aint right with him. It looks like more than a toe to me.

By ray

November 28, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Man, I hate to see us lose games like that. Lost the lead. Gonna blame that one on Acie? Oh wait, he wasn’t in the game.

Bibby had a nice night. 4-7 from three point range, accounting for half of his points. You know, 3 POINT RANGE, that place we shouldn’t be shooting from. Still, some nice plays there towards the end by him. A great (and exceedingly rare) layup, following one of his jumpers. Unfortunately, that EURO PG erased one of those plays with a layup of his own in the crucial moments, and that never helps when you’re already down by a few points. Guess what….can’t blame Law for that one either.

Bosh did his thing. He really didn’t do any more than he did last time, but the problem is that Kapono (who I SAID was a guy we couldn’t let get loose) chipped in 16 points, plus Moon and Graham scored in double digits. That hurts.

Really, all it came down to was that they made more plays late in the game than we did.

In the meantime, I have to give a shout out to our EURO CENTER Zaza with his 17 rebounds, 8 of which were on the offensive boards. Nothing like second chance opportunities to keep you in the game.

Horford had a solid game, but didn’t get the ball enough, in my opinion. Guess who took the majority of the shots…

We just couldn’t get it going enough late in the game. Completely winnable. But, we couldn’t get open towards the end. They played us good, shutting off the obvious passing lanes to Marvin and Mo. Nobody was going to let JJ or Bibby loose for a second.

By new jersey faithful

November 28, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

JJ stunk it up 2nite!! Was he trying to build a house??

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

“Bosh is good but he does not dominate like that with Josh on the floor.”

He doesn’t dominate like that if Zaza plays more in the 2nd half either.

Zaza did an outstanding job in the first three quarters, both playing defense on Bosh and collecting boards. I don’t know if he got injured or what, but if he was healthy Woody’s a damn fool for keeping him on the bench in the 4th.

By ray

November 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Samuel,

JJ took 22 shots. He looked more like he was on the attack then he did against Milwaukee. Missing shots doesn’t mean he doesn’t have energy. It just means he missed some shots. And he took those shots because he knows no one on that team can guard him. No one. But they played a little bit better team defense tonight than we did. But that’s besides the point. JJ is a huge threat, and the Raps knew it. Without him, or somebody else that is both willing and able to be a threat well inside the arc, Bibby gets nothing. I’ve said it before, get the man a good look and he kills teams. Stay in his face all game and it’s a different story.

I know you hate EUROS with an undying passion, but our guy did a hell of a job on the boards. I won’t even go into who was guarding Horford and even managed to block one of his hook shots….

By kirkinga

November 28, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

Tough loss tonight. The game was there for the winning but the Hawks couldn’t get it done.

Another solid game from Bibby, which happens more often than not.As someone has already pointed out, the team looks less effective when he is out of the game.Heroic effort on the boards from ZaZa as well as a good game from Evans.

Why are some notorious Bibby haters making such a big deal of two sentences written by Yahoo’s Wojnarowski?

It says the” Blazers were active….” meaning they called the Hawks not vice versa as some want us to believe.The Blazers made calls to teams including the Hawks but the season started and the Hawks are interested.

Curious how an out of the blue phone call from another team confirms the belief that there is willingness to trade Bibby. Interesting enough this morsel of illogic served up by way of more “analysis” from predictable corners.

If there is anything interesting about the blurb on Yahoo it was that the Blazers presumably wanted the supposedly washed-up Bibby and not the young waiting to break out Acie.

No time to moan. Another tough road game ahead.

Go Hawks!!

By ray

November 28, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

We beat Toronto earlier this season by 18 damn points, and Josh Smith was only out there for 6 minutes. And they had O’Neal then.

It isn’t about Smith shutting down Bosh, although we’d love to have him around. It wasn’t about a big game from Bibby, though he did have 19 and 12 that night. He scored more 5 more points this time, but had 9 fewer assists. Still, can’t blame him either.

And Joe had a similar performance against these guys tonight as he did then.

No, the difference was the bench. The difference was how many guys played, how much they played, and how they performed.

When we beat Toronto earlier this season, SEVEN guys came off the bench, and THREE of them played 23 minutes or more. THREE MORE got double digit minutes. All of them scored except Mario West.

This time, it was FOUR guys. One guy got 32 minutes, two guys got 10 minutes, and one guy got less than 7.

In the previous meeting, our bench scored 47 points. This time, they scored 23 points, 17 by Evans and 6 by Solo.

Therein lies the difference, and those are the FACTS. Do with them as you will, interpret them as you like. I know what that indicates to me, but why say it when I can just wait for somebody to put words in my mouth….Heh.

By kirkinga

November 28, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

“…and the Hawks aren’t interested…..”

By ray

November 28, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

Yawn. Talk about predictable. And obsessed. Or was that spelled “obessed“…..

By Adventures of the Toxic Avenger

November 28, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Bibby had another solid game, and we needed it from him. If you ask me, we just need to do whatever it takes to get him open, where he excels. The guy doesn’t drive, so let’s just leave that alone. Get him open, even if it’s just by a step or two. He hits shots, and we’ve been needing that shooter.

Bibby had a nice night. 4-7 from three point range, accounting for half of his points. You know, 3 POINT RANGE, that place we shouldn’t be shooting from. Still, some nice plays there towards the end by him. A great (and exceedingly rare) layup, following one of his jumpers.

To the untrained eye, it would seem like the blogger in question is applauding a player for what he does right.

But not to….THE TOXIC AVENGER! No, only he could root out the nefarious and invisible evil codings of this message! Only he could penetrate that dreaded cloud of hidden meanings!

Tune in next week (or at least after the next game) to see how the Toxic Avenger vanquishes his foes and restores true righteousness to blogs everywhere!

By ray

November 28, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

“The Blazers have been active on several trade fronts, including discussions earlier this season with the Atlanta Hawks that would’ve included a package for point guard Mike Bibby. Those talks died when the Hawks started the season with five straight victories.”

Find the quote that says which team called which.

After that, find the quote from anybody that says which team called which. And by the way, saying “the Hawks talked to the Blazers” is not the same thing as saying “The Hawks CALLED the Blazers.” The fact that they talked or discussed things is all that was really mentioned, other than the idea that perhaps trade talk existed. Nobody knows how it went or otherwise. But it debunks the idea that it would never, ever happen.

Unless of course, it was all just a rumor. In which case, the sarcastic claim that the Blazers are interested in the “washed-up Bibby” (another lie…never saw anybody say he was washed up) is null and void as well.

But I’ll leave that tangled web to the one who spun it…

By HB Ando

November 28, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

I’m still at a complete and absolute loss how a couple of folks continue to confuse expecting Bibby to be traded, for financial reasons, with “hating Bibby” and “wanting him to be traded”. Other than pointing out what is obvious to everyone, that Bibby’s lost a step on defense, and is exposed on that end by a lot of the quicker, younger PG’s he’s facing, there hasn’t been any sentiment on my part that Bibby is bad, or that the team would be better without him.

The obvious truth is that the Hawks ARE better with him. But that has nothing to do with my belief that he’ll end up trade before the deadline. It’s just about money, or the lack thereof.

Some of you guys must have really struggled with reading comprehension growing up (and one of you is actually a public school teacher).

Yes, Ray, that was Bargnani swatting an Al Horford, low-post hook shot (something Sam said Bargnani was incapable of doing, guarding big men in the post).

Mitchell just about let the Hawks steal this one. His rotations were almost as head-scratching as Woody’s usually are. While Marvin had a better night (I was wrong in my expectation that Bargnani would have better numbers), he was +1 for the night, while Bargnani was +8, but was used sparingly by Mitchell, despite a very strong first quarter.

The point someone made about Josh Smith guarding Bosh is actually pretty plausible IMHO. Smith is probably one of the only guys in the league who has both the length and athleticism to guard Bosh 20 feet from the basket.

But as far as losing because we didn’t have Smith, I don’t think it can be anything but a wash when the Raps were without J. O’Neal.

Raps bench came up BIG, with Graham and Kapono. Though Mo Evans probably kept us in the game, from our bench.

How ‘bout Zaza going absolutely gonzo on the boards?

It’s still a tale of two spurts, at this stage. 6-0 and 3-6.

Clearly, these guys need not only Smith’s production, but, seemingly more important, they seem to need the energy his big plays generate.

I can’t say that the Raps looked like a more talented team, on the floor. So it goes back to coaching, intensity, and execution.

I hope that JJ’s shooting struggles are nothing more than a byproduct of a sore foot, and that the foot is going to resolve. He still looks out of rythm, and he and Bibby seem to be both taking turns getting their own, rather than really playing off of each other.

By Lacsho

November 28, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

I really don’t think anyone hates Bibby. He had a good offensive night, but he gave up just as many points on the defensive end. Please let me know when he actually guards the other team’s pg. Hell JJ should be tired he’s 6’7” guarding the other teams pg, or best player on a consistent basis.

If it wasn’t for Bibby we would be struggling to reach .500

How do you know? I totally disagree with that statement. The only way we’ll find out is if Bibby gets hurt. I think if Acie receives 20 plus consistent minutes, he balls on a different level. That’s my opinion and everyone has one.

Woody blew this game; he choked when the raptors went up early in the 4th quarter. The offensive sets look horrible. The team lives and dies off of the jump shot, and Woody continues to let this happen (game after game). The vets can do no wrong in his eyes. Call it what you want, but Woody is a confidence killer, and he doesn’t know how to get the best from his team on a consistent basis.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 28, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

“I won’t even go into who was guarding Horford and even managed to block one of his hook shots….”

“Yes, Ray, that was Bargnani swatting an Al Horford, low-post hook shot (something Sam said Bargnani was incapable of doing, guarding big men in the post).”

I’ll qualify this statement by saying I’m no fan of Euros myself, but if blocking the shot of a guy 3 inches shorter than him makes Bargnani a good defender, then the two hook shots off the backboard that he let Horford score on him make him a bad defender. Bargnani’s minutes got cut because he picked up 3 fouls before halftime, at least one of which was a really bad foul away from the ball. Considering his body of work, he’s still not a very good defender, regardless of one low-post block.

And more importantly, if Horford actually got the ball in the post more often, maybe he would get a chance to heat up and score on a more consistent basis.

“Clearly, these guys need not only Smith’s production, but, seemingly more important, they seem to need the energy his big plays generate.”

I completely agree with that — this team has looked really lazy even in its wins without Josh.

This was a winnable game. More 4th quarter Zaza and better defense would have probably shifted the game in our favor.

By cp

November 28, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

At one point Calderon only had 4 points. So if 4 points is killing someone then Bosh must have went on a murder spree. Josh Smith gives Bosh problems but usually Bosh still gets his against the Hawks. Woodson is going back to his Knapp ways. He always finds a way to go away from what is working. Pachulia should have been in the game in the 4th. He was grabbing every rebound in sight. He went out and the Raptors seemed to get every loose ball out there. I still don’t understand playing Law and Flip at the same time. As someone pointed out earlier, it forces Law to give Flip the ball and go stand in the corner. This kid is not being developed correctly. We need to see what we have in Law which in thus lets us know whether to trade Bibby , hand the team over to Law, or give Bibby a new contract. We wont ever know if the kid keeps getting inconsistent minutes.

By Samuel

November 29, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

Like I said Ando/Ray. Bargnani will get his little 1 block per but get exposed the rest of the ball game for the scrubb that he is. Tonight showed me nothing that would move him out of his position as the worst #1 pick of all time.

Ray, you’re really sounding immature with your back and forths. Like I said, you obviously didn’t watch the game, did you? JJ may have taken 22 shots but he was not in the game mentally or physically.

Zaza did some good things but was totally mismatched against Bosh. I’m sorry. Solo couldn’t guard him either, but he was better than ZaZa.

Again, I’m not too worried about the loss. Considering the fact that Josh was still out and JJ didn’t show up at all, we did good to make the game competitive.

Ando, I at least respect the fact that you realize that this team is not as good without Bibby. The guys who don’t are either: too insecure or too ignorant to admitt it. I really can’t honestly say what will happen as far as a trade but I do know that Acie Law is no where near ready to lead this team the way that Bibby can and i’m not ready to go backwards. To be honest with you, I don’t see another PG out there who can bring his scoring ability(which we despirately need) for a cheeper price, can you.

By Jay

November 29, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

Like I said before, unless it’s a block buster I think we should hold on to Bibby and see what he can do in a play-off run while healthy. I do like Bayless, he’s like a smaller Steph Marbury, gets to the whole, looks for his shot but not much of a play maker. I still like Crittendon better. He’s a playmaker, not afraid to push the ball.

By Raptors fan in TO

November 29, 2008 2:23 AM | Link to this

Smoove’s absence was definitely felt by the Hawks tonight —- if he was in the line up, Graham and Kapono would not have gotten so many open looks esp. inside. It was a game that was a bit sloppy on both sides (turnovers, porous defence) but it is always a good game when these two teams play. My only chance to see the Hawks on national TV up here in Canada —- I think JJ is a legitimate star, and that guy Evans is also very good.

Samuel: So you’re saying Bargnani is worse than Kwame Brown, Joe Smith, Andrew Bogut or Michael Olowakandi? I beg to differ…

By jed

November 29, 2008 5:53 AM | Link to this

some bloggers here are bibby haters in denial. its so obvious. keep on denying…lol

By happyhawk

November 29, 2008 6:19 AM | Link to this

why don’t we give more pick and roll plays for bibby and JJ? when i saw al and bibby execute the pick and roll it looked really good. the play reminded me of how bibby and webber/vlade/miller used to do it in sactown and it was really effective. bibby is known as one of the best pick and roll players in the league it benefits him and the big man. i can still remember how bibby and webber gives the opposing team so many problem by just repeating the same play over and over. too bad that the coach doesn’t know how to utilize his player’s strenght and potential. WE NEED SOME IDENTITY IN OUR OFFENSE. no more iso plays pls. and we need josh.:D

By ray

November 29, 2008 7:10 AM | Link to this

Samuel,

Heh, heh, heh. Well, I admit to baiting you with the two lines in an article mentioning Bibby. And that’s all it was: baiting. But immature back and forth? I’m immature for disagreeing with you? Wow. At least I don’t call people ignorant and insecure when they have a different opinion than I do. What’s mildly amusing is that we actually agree that Bibby is a big help to this team. Particularly when he is allowed to do what he does best.

Look, I don’t know how many times I can say that Bibby is a heck of a shooter (and ball care-taker). I don’t hate the guy at all, though I’m less than impressed with his defense overall. But it’s all good. And we are better with him than we are without him. And for the upteenth time, I have never suggested that we start Law or sign the team over to him. I don’t think it’s wise, and have said so numerous times. All I said was give the man 20 minutes a game. If you disagree with that, then fine. But please stop putting words in my mouth.

As for my opinion on JJ’s level of energy, I did watch the game thank you very much. And the one before that. And the one before that. It’s this group of peformances, and the difference between them and last night’s game that I’m basing my opinion on.

Please allow me to explain what I’m getting at. JJ did look out of it, something I’ve been saying for the last 3 or 4 games. JJ took 8 shots against Cleveland. Against Milwaukee, he took 12 shots. Last night he took 22. And, I saw him going to the paint more than he has in the last 3 games. To me, there is a big difference between 8 and 12 shots taken versus 22. All I’m saying here is that this indicates an increased effort in attempts to score. An increased effort requires an increased expenditure in energy. In other words, it looked to me like Joe was trying harder to get himself going than he did against Cleveland or Milwaukee. It just so happens that he couldn’t quite do it. In fact, he looked just as worn out against Charlotte (4 games ago). The difference there was that the shots were falling for him, and he made it to the line 11 times. But enough of that. Either you get what I’m saying or you don’t. Either you agree or you don’t. Or you don’t care. As far as I’m concerned, all of the above are fine with me. Just back up your retort with something other than “you didn’t watch the game”.

By terrell barron

November 29, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

Zaza had a decent game, not a great game. Half of those rebounds bounced right to him. He was’nt exactly snatching them out of the air. We’ll take em though.

By ray

November 29, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

Samuel,

I figured I’d break this up a bit and not wear your out too much all in one post, heh heh heh.

Just for the sake of stirring the pot, I disagree with you on Bargnani being the worst #1 pick of all time. In fact, I don’t really think you actually feel that way, you just hate Ando so bad, and the fact that he suggested Bargnani as a good fit for this team. His career is still fairly young. Hell, I’d pick Olowakandi or Darko. I’d pick Darko just because of who he was drafted ahead of, even though that’s not all that fair. Olowakandi? He had all the tools to be the man, and he wasn’t even one of your hated Euros. A 7’1” brotha with great strength, agility, good college stats, all the necessary skills. Will you try to explain that one or play dodgeball? I can guess what your explanation for Darko is….

I love how you say that Zaza did some good things, but were quick to add that you’re sorry, he didn’t match well against Bosh. I don’t see how that’s any different than saying that Bibby does some good things (his lights-out shooting and low turnovers) but doesn’t lock down opposing point guards or dish out a lot of assists. Are you hating on Zaza? No. Am I hating on Bibby? No. It’s called recognizing a guy for what he does/did well (although you didn’t appear to want to specify) while recognizing where he didn’t do so well. As I recall, Woody used JJ on Calderon, just like he did last time (as you astutely noted last time). See? That’s not hating.

Nobody on our team matches up well with Chris Bosh, except Josh Smith. Again, we didn’t really have Josh against them earlier this season (he played 6 minutes before incurring that ankle injury). Yet we still won 110-92. If you were watching both games, then you already know the difference between them was not Josh Smith. I offered an idea in my 10:15 post. Agree or disagree? I’d like your assessment.

So. You say you honestly can’t say what will happen as far as a trade. At least you can admit that after having repeatedly said there’s no way it will happen. Hell, if I had a dollar for every time you posted that….But I agree with that sentiment. I’ve stated numerous times that I don’t know what will happen either, despite my expectations (which really have nothing to do with Bibby’s performance). As for Law not being ready, I agree again. Never said he was. Also never said that a trade involving Bibby means that Law is automatically the starter henceforth and forever more. There could be another pg in the mix for all we know. It would be wise to add one if such a trade occurs. But I do think that giving Law more PT will only help develop him. But what do I know. I don’t coach high school basketball.

As for your very last statement about not seeing another pg out there that can bring Bibby’s scoring ability for a cheaper price: I think you kind of back yourself into an unfair corner with that statement. Bibby gets over 15 points per game. So does Mo Williams. And TJ Ford. I don’t like Jameer Nelson, but he’s only getting 1 point per game less. Calderon is sitting at 2 points per game less. Derrick Rose is averaging over 18, and Devin Harris has come back from injury to average Joe Johnson-like numbers this year at 22.5 ppg and 6.3 apg, in 11 games. Are any of them making $15 million this year? Bibby is. And no, I’m not saying I’d take any of those guys over Bibby (except Devin Harris…I’d do it so fast). The real point I’m making is that price puts Bibby in an unfair light. And, there’s more to scoring than just outside shooting.

I agree that Bibby brings a much-needed element of * outside shooting* to our team. And if we keep finding ways to get him open, he’ll keep doing it. But scoring isn’t just shooting. There are several pgs who provide the same amount (or more) scoring-wise by penetration and by getting to the line. Bibby gets to the line as much as Acie does. And Acie doesn’t play much…Again, I’m not dogging Bibby. But let’s please not talk price.

By Hms

November 29, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

A rebound is a rebound, whether a player is correctly positioned for a good chance at the ball, or having to go after the ball.

By ray

November 29, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

Najeh,

I agree that Bargnani is not a good defender. He has to work on that part of his game. My point (as was yours I believe) was that he was somewhat capable of defending the post, as you aptly pointed out Sam suggested that he could not possibly do. True, he didn’t stop Horford the other two times with that same shot. But Horford went 3-8 on the night. Of course, I attribute that as well to him not getting the ball enough, as we seem to be echoing each other on that point. I said as much in my 9:43 post.

And Zaza was playing as well as could be expected. I’d call 17 rebounds quite a contribution and nothing to be sniffed at. 8 offensive rebounds is 8 second chance opportunities. Woody pulling him out is a typical mystery. But like I stated before, Bosh did this to us last time (nearly identical performance) and we won by 18….

Nobody is listening, but I’m telling you the difference is the bench play and use of the bench.

Jay, I like Crittenton too. But I don’t know how we’d go about getting him. The concern of course, is does a guy like that even get to play for Woodson? He would not mesh well with Woody’s style. Hmmmm.

HappyHawk,

I think the biggest difference of all between the Bibby performances we see now and the ones we saw from him in Sacramento is exactly what you stated about the pick and roll, AND ball movement in general. We don’t have the ball movement Sacramento had. Of course, we don’t have the offensive concepts here that they had. I won’t go any further into that…..But you’re right, the ISO plays are stale. And they don’t work against teams that match up well with us.

By doc

November 29, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

geez samuel who isnt overmatched by bosh. that means absolutely nothing as a criticism of zaza or solo or horford for that matter who couldnt stop him either as our best defender. he truly is one of the best 15 in the game now as his participation in the olympics attest and far greater a player than our own star jj. he has emerged the way howard has.

problem seemed to be that the raptors increased their intensity, denied the basketball on the perimeter and challenged every shot down the stretch and for some reason when we had a close in shot we couldnt convert and had NO second chances because we went small ball while they had size and quickness on the court. just the same we were in the game but couldnt make the equalizers.

bibby was excellent, unfortunately he got fewer and fewer looks as the game wore on. i think teams are willing to give him his shot early on and deny it when it counts. again no penetration from the point guard as it is all about moving the ball from station to station that will require discipline from the other team to deny passing lanes and boxing out to keep it to one shot. overall he is beginning to look more and more like an upscale and more expensive tyrone lue without all the dribbles at the top of the key. not saying we dont need him, his attitude and clear headedness. we need him badly only we will need more from the point as time wears on.

as far as not having either zaza or solo there in the end i saw a lot of uncontested close shots that might have been altered a bit if we had maybe put one of those guys in when the raptors made their run or in the closing moments. seemed like enough time outs were called but no major adjustments of players into or out of the game.

does anyone else seem to think dominique needs a good point man to deliver him what he needs to say and talk about? i thought i heard a lot of “that is right bob” and then a little more info given by nique.

By richbrave

November 29, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

WORST #1 pick of all time, the only one the WIZARDS have ever had.

By richbrave

November 29, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Gonna’ have to beg off the game tonight. RICHMOND hosts COPPIN STATE in B-BALL. Like the WIZARDS, U of R is missing their starting center for the season. Season tix. Good luck to the HAWKS. You gotta’ give me the particulars later.

By Samuel

November 29, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Darko wasn’t a #1 overall pick and there is no way that Bargani is better than Joe Smith. I said im up in the air about the Kandi Man. After last night’s game, I’m leaning towards the Kandi Man. He was a much better post defender.

I agree that Nique is not very good. No where near Smitty’s caliber. I wish we could borrow Kenny Smith for a few games since TNT is right here in ATL.

Doc, I agree that Bosh is in that zone right now but Josh would have slowed him down. They don’t just dominate Josh. He would get some, but not like that.

By Nate ArchiBALL

November 29, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

I think Woody’s decision to not play ZaZa in the fourth quarter, despite his unusually high number of rebounds, was due to the fact that Bosh made seven of 10 shots and scored 15 points in the third quarter. We all must admit there is not a lot of “D” being played by the Hawks on the inside. Al is adjusting to playing (offense and defense) against NBA caliber power forwards, which is quite a difference from the bums who pass themselves off as centers in today’s NBA. Solo is learning under fire (which in my opinion should have occurred last season) and is showing he has a pretty good game. We really miss Josh Smith. ZaZa is ZaZa (whatever that is… as you can tell I’m not a fan). Marvin’s game has improved greatly. I would really like to see Marvin coming off the bench when Josh Smith returns to the lineup. This team really misses the hustle plays from Josh Childress. I expect we’ll finally see some consistency in the front line by All-Star break.

By DAP01

November 29, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Why play a sluggish JJ 43 minutes when we have game the next day?

Zaza not playing in the 4th?

AC barely playing?

Does anyone believe that Woody is even an average coach?

By Sautee

November 29, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Samuel

JJ may have taken 22 shots but he was not in the game mentally or physically.

You are a coach, right?

So what do you do when your best player is “not in the game mentally or physically”?

Hopefully, you TAKE HIM OUT, sit his azz on the bench and let your bench play. Isn’t that why you have a bench?

Woody is not the coach you want him to be.

But you can’t admit it, even when your own statements show the conflict. Yes, he’s 9-6, but that doesn’t tell the whole story, does it Sam?

Would you bench a player who had 8 offensive rebounds earlier in the game?

For the entire 4th quarter? Be truthful, now.

By Sautee

November 29, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

kirknga

This is called “talking out of both sides of your mouth”:

Curious how an out of the blue phone call from another team confirms the belief that there is willingness to trade Bibby. Interesting enough this morsel of illogic served up by way of more “analysis” from predictable corners.

*If there is anything interesting about the blurb on Yahoo it was that the Blazers presumably wanted the supposedly washed-up Bibby and not the young waiting to break out Acie. *

Yeah, the first paragraph attempts to discredit what was always a rumor (did the Hawks or the Blazers verify?), and tries to belittle any who would even discuss it, even though this is a BLOG, and that’s what blogs do.

And then the second paragraph tries to champion Bibby and dis Acie, although the very obvious conclusion would be that Portland (who has openly coveted Bibby for at least two years) needs VETERAN point guard help. They already have Bayless. Why would they go after Acie?

Are you a closet Acie hater? And if the rumor was a “morsel of illogic”, as you called it, then why give it credence with your second paragraph?

Talking out of both sides of your mouth, and highly hypocritical. You lose credibility points on this post Kirk. Please try to do better.

By biglott

November 29, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Well, we are 9-6 for November, with J. Smoove missing 10 games. I think that we have faired well, all things considered. Hopefully, we will beat Washington and end up 10-6 for the month.

Getting Josh back and everyone else remaining healthy, we should go be able to go 11-6 for each month up thru March.

Were there any fatalities from all of those people who were jumping off the bandwagon, during that 4 game losing streak?

Aaron B, Najeh, Lacsho look out for me on that fantasy league.

By doc

November 29, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

yup, josh is a difference maker been sayng it a long time and said it loudly as they frettered awy him almost this past summer. thank you mr brand not mr sund! heh heh; samuel funny to play it otherwise but you got to play the game with who you got just like they were without JON. coach has to make do with what he has and bosh ran wild but the guys who killed us were their little guys scoring from in close. graham had a big game last night that he might not have had if say solo were in there.

i have been very impressed with solo’s quickness as he almost trapped ridenoir on his own in wednesday’s home game and that play was only disrupted because acie got there a little too late and pressed luke out of bounds into the table. solo was also instrumental in the full court tactics that forced at least two t o’s in that game. sometimes woody gets too complacent and acts like a fan who wishes things would be normal and when they arent, like jj in a slump, cant come up with a formula to change things.

folks who deny zaza was on last night forget the raptors won it on their finish in the third and start of the fourth with 14 straight points, wasnt it? i say zaza missed a good part of that run so it is stating untruths to lay the defensive lapse at his feet. not to have him back in there is the coaches lapse not his as he had no input really when the game was lost. silly to make it out otherwise. there were too many small guys making points in the paint last night for the raptors when the game was on the line and we missed our own chances at the other end but with no second chances. good game but a bit of a disappointment that we werent able to figure it out to win it. seems we still arent able to dictate who is on the court but try to answer the other team.

By Sautee

November 29, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

doc

It seems that many bloggers have a clue as to what we needed last night.

Damn shame that the HC didn’t see it that way.

By MannyT

November 29, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Missed most of last night’s game, but if stats are telling the truth, much of the Raptors run was done on the watch of Flip, Al, & AC. Also seems that Woody’s strategy for the first night of a road back to back is to to use the short bench. Mo Evans plays the 6th starter/Chills role and everyone else gets really good seats to the game.

For the record, I do believe that Woody is an average coach. Given the right players for his system, he will do well. If there is any notable deviation (like injury to key players) he struggles. He could win with Lebron James and lose with Mike James.

Above average coaches figure out ways to change their styles to fit their players. As much as we harp on Woody to run, it won’t happen consistenly unless he gets his perfect lineup to make it consistent. That proabably includes a dominant rebounding defensive center.

An above average coach has more flexbility in what he does. For example, Byron Scott had a dominant front court player in Kenyon Martin when he was in NJ. He adapted things to make the most of splitting his current front court based on their skills. David West is offensively dominant in his front court, while Tyson Chandler is defensively dominant in his front court. I’d put Rick Adelman in that above average category. Ming and McGrady keep getting hrut, and he keeps winning. He made the Princeton offense work in the pros in Sactown and led from the back court with Drexler and Porter in Portland. Flexibility to exploit the strengths of the players you have makes you an above average coach.

If I go to the way back machine (1970s), I can find a #1 pick easily worse than the current guys. In a fine year when top draft picks came from schools like Hawaii, UMass, Kentucky State, Marshall and Penn—the top pick was a one hit wonder from Loyola I’ll throw the obligatory Hawks loophole into the subject. When they had the #1 pick in the 1970s, they chose well, but could not outmaneuver the ABA for David “Skywalker” Thomspon from NC State.

Just out of curiousity, when GaTech plays at the same time as the Hawks, does anyone know where to pick up the game on the radio? I have not had any luck finding it lately when I’m out and it’s moved from 790.

BWAF

By ray

November 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Doc,

Well said. If I recall correctly, Bosh scored a whopping total of 5 points in the 4th quarter. Like you said, that isn’t what won the game for them. But you know how it is. I still don’t understand not having Solo and/or Zaza in there during the 4th quarter either. Without them there, Bosh still only scored 5 points. He didn’t need to do that much beyond a key 3 point play, and with their euro pg getting two crucial buckets late in the game to help stave off some good plays by Bibby. Like you said, it was all the unheralded players that killed us. That, and a lack of bench production on our part. If they don’t play, they can’t contribute.

But hey, not being able to stop Bosh is enough to discount any other contributions any player could have made.

Still waiting for an explanation (contrary to my own, but that makes sense)as to how we managed to stomp the Raptors earlier this year by 18 points, largely without Josh Smith (who played a total of 6 minutes), and with very similar contributions from JJ, Bibby, and Marvin.

I think the answer isn’t that difficult to discern. Odd that it has not been addressed…

Samuel, you’re right. Darko wasn’t an overall #1 pick, although it still seems a crime to me that he was drafted ahead of the likes of Wade and Carmelo. Good call. As for everything else, I see your evasive maneuvers are as sharp as ever. LOL! You should have named your fantasy b-ball team the Tupelo Dodgers…hee hee hee…

Sautee,

In regard to your 10:43 post- If you can get an honest, reasonable reply that is not insanely defensive, I suggest you go play the lottery right afterwards, and expect to win it all. I’ve heard that nearly impossible events happen in twos. If you can get a mea culpa, then play the lottery back-to-back, and expect to win both times. On the other hand, perhaps the wonderful opportunity to prove me wrong might just be too much. After all, it would seem that roughly 80% of the contributions that come from that source are bent upon that one single purpose. Ah, but that would be denied vehemently with shrill, harrowing screams of “libel”. Hee hee hee. This really can be fun if you just look at it differently…

By ray

November 29, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

From the article about our loss to the Raptors:

The Hawks, who came in with the NBA’s highest 3-point shooting percentage, went 6-for-13 from beyond the arc in the first half but made just 2-of-13 in the second.

“We hurt ourselves because we settled too much for 3s,” Woodson said. “We were just too selfish tonight. Sometimes those shots are appetizing and they look good, but if you’re not making jump shots, you’ve got to get to the free throw line.”

Bibby, who was 4-of-7 from long range, didn’t agree that the Hawks shot too many 3-pointers.

“I don’t think we were forcing them, they weren’t going in when we needed them,” he said. “If you have the open shot, you have to knock it down. You have to shoot it.”

I guess you could say this is a classic example of a coach’s perspective vs. a player’s perspective. And although I wouldn’t make too much of it, I find it somewhat interesting in the broader scheme of things.

Both guys have a point.

Bibby excels shooting the open jumper. In my opinion, that is the bulk of his contribution to this team. Those who consistently laud his efforts, talents, and performances have said as much….consistently. Why wouldn’t he shoot the open jumper when he’s so damn good at it? We need that from him as it is.

On the other side of the coin, Woodson is right. When those shots aren’t falling, you have to get to the free throw line. Here’s where the article doesn’t tell the whole story. Bibby’s shots were falling just fine last night for the most part. He shot pretty dang good. A host of others, including JJ, did NOT shoot well. Nor were they getting to the line much (JJ included).

I don’t think it’s fair to lay this on Bibby. Nor would I want to lay it only on JJ Personally, I think it has more to do with offensive design, and the ability to flex/adjust when necessary. If you’re living on the offensive efficiency of a couple of players, then you’re limiting yourself.

I wouldn’t even want to say that it’s purely a coaching problem, although some may think that. Nor would I say it’s only a player execution problem. Why? Because players play the way they practice, a mantra often used by Woody. The only catch-22 is that how they play in games (i.e. offensive play designs) is an indication of how they practice, regardless of how they’re “executing”, or whether or not their shots are falling. The plays themselves are there.

So….when our shots aren’t falling and we need to get to the line to score some points….what should we be doing to accomplish this?

I’m sure this is being addressed by Woodson and his staff, and players as we speak. But it also makes good fodder for discussion here.

By ray

November 29, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

MannyT,

I’m inclined to agree with your points about average coaches vs. good coaches, and the differences between them. And I think you have Mike Woodson correctly pegged, at least for the time being (he would have to prove otherwise, but we’d have to give him time for that). All the same, I’d also be interested in hearing an INTELLIGENT retort to that opinion, if there is one to be had. Makes for good discussion.

As for determining who the worst #1 draft pick ever is…well, I doubt even the “experts” would agree on that one. Still, it can be a fun discussion if you can get past personal agendas.

By ES

November 29, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Did anyone else not think Woody’s coaching was questionable down the stretch? Why bench Pachulia who had 17 rebounds in three quarters in the fourth when this team was shooting poorly and needed all the second chance points it could get! Plus Bosh was torching us and Pachulia defended him well for the most part.

I put some thoughts on this on my blog. Dissapointing coaching in my opinion.

By doc

November 29, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

well …….. to all my jolly good fellows, especially ando and honest abe (i know you are lurking somewhere):

GO BEES!

By BA

November 29, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

The Raptors kept the Hawks in this game- Toronto is a jump-shooting team, and during the second/third quarters, they missed a lot of jumpshots.

Pachulia WAS needed in the fourth, NOT to guard Bosh (who wasn’t much of a factor in the fourth, as somebody pointed out earlier), but to grab offensive boards, like he had done all night long. A couple of second-chance shots, and Atlanta steals it last night.

The loss of Smith compared with the loss of O’Neal is hardly “a wash”. Not necessarily because Smith is a better player (which, in my opinion he is) but because Smith plays a bigger role on our team than newcomer O’Neal plays in Toronto.

I’d classify Woodson as a good coach as opposed to average, based on the excellent developement of Smith, Williams and to a lesser extent Jones. But leaving Pachulia on the pine in the fourth was a bad move.

Is Bibby slower than the average pg? Yes. Defensive liability? Not as sure about that assesment- ya’ll better hope they don’t move him, or we’ll be watching people blow by Flip the Switch every night as he turns it over every other possesion.

Should be a blood bath in D.C. tonight. So who are we rooting for (or betting on) to have a better night than Marvin in THIS game?!

By truly1

November 29, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

I disagree ba. woody is more of an average coach. He started the season well letting everyone get minutes and limiting joes minutes to keep him efficient. Then when adversity came he reverted back to his old ways of playing playes too many minutes. If you are playing so many minutes it hard to play both ends of the court like it is your last. thats what you you need a bench for. As for developing players he had noone else on the team to play or if he did they would not have been developed either. Joe should not have played 43min thats too many minutes he has a bad toe then he plays again tonight. bad call by the head coach.

By terrell barron

November 29, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Will Woody swallow his pride and give Acie some more minutes tonight? I seriously doubt it, but I sure hope so. And while your’re at it Woodrow, let JJ rest tonight. If he’s hurting, why risk him in a game that we should more than likely win without him? I’d be willing to bet anybody that the answer to both questions is a resounding NO! And please dont play Flip with Acie. How is he going to develop, when Flip runs the point and usually likes to SHOOT FIRST?

By truly1

November 29, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

I agree tb. get jj healthy do this by cutting down his minutes to somewhere around 28-33 minutes until he gets well then you can put them up to 35-39 minutes no more unless overtime is needed.

By ray

November 29, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

BA,

Agreed on Pachulia’s involvement in the game, and it was I that pointed out Bosh’s 4th quarter scoring.

I also agree with the idea that Smith plays a bigger role for us than O’Neal does for the Raps.

I also agree that Flip doesn’t bring what Bibby brings, and vice versa. And lately, Flip hasn’t been the super sub he started out to be. These things happen, though. Again, if Bibby gets moved, I’d expect another pg to be part of the deal. But then, I don’t know that either. I’m not worrying about it. It will be what it will be, or what it won’t be, however you choose to see it.

I’m looking for a better game against Washington. They may be weak due to injuries, and be without their head coach….but it’s like underestimating an injured animal. Just ain’t wise.

By truly1

November 29, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

If woody manages minutes wisely we should win by ten. I am not that confident cosidering how we have been playing. we played last night they played thru so they will be more fresh.

By ray

November 29, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

You know, it occurred to me that I haven’t done a spoof on the AJC polls in quite some time.

The latest one asks whether or not Acie should be getting more playing time or not. 867 votes for yes, and 123 votes for no. Three things can be learned here: My index finger is very tired, my mouse is now broken due to blunt force trauma, and Sam is probably wondering how I discovered the poll 744 votes before he did. And the AJC is left with one burning question. How did we defeat that “vote once per hour” thing?

Just kidding….

By terrell barron

November 29, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Woodrow did’nt listen. Acie and Flip together again. Better be glad we’re winning. lol!! Btw, Solo looks like he might be a player.

By Lacsho

November 29, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Man it took me a minute to get on the ajc site. However, now that I’m here let me give my take. Solo looks damn good, and Bibby was on fire. Acie looks very good, and Flip looks suspect. Keep in mind I’m typing this during the second quarter b/c I recording the game. (Got caught up watching 24 redemption DVD)

By ray

November 29, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

Whoooo! Looks like Bibby is making his point about shooting that open jumper, and the Wizards are the unfortunate victims.

Sorry RichBrave, but you’re right: the Wiz are scrubs right now overall, although we still have to make sure that we don’t let Butler and Jamison beat us.

Man, was that an actual crossover Bibby pulled on the Wiz? Damn! And here I was thinking he didn’t have any of that left in his bag. Well, we know he had one, anyway….

Seriously, the ball movement by the Hawks is way, way better than it has been for several games. And like I was saying to HappyHawk in my post at 8:46 a.m. post, the difference between the old Bibby from Sacto and the one playing for us is probably more about ball movement and offensive design more than most things.

And looky here, good ball movement, and Bibby is rippin’ em easy. He gets the open looks and makes smart plays with the ball. But we have to play that style, instead of the 2-man JJ/Bibby stagnant offense. Hopefully this continues in the second half and we see Bibby scorch the Wiz for about 30. Either way, I’ll be happy with a win against a team that shouldn’t be competition for us anyway.

By terrell barron

November 29, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Should’nt have been close. But a win is a win.

By Melvin

November 29, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Written by Marc Stein 11/28

1. Mike Bibby (Atlanta Hawks) Expiring Salary: $14,983,603 Soon to be traded? UNLIKELY

Bibby is a good fit with the Hawks fiscally and on the floor, as an accomplished shooter who plays well off star guard Joe Johnson … without taxing Atlanta’s well-documented financial restrictions. It remains to be seen whether the Hawks will defy the skeptics and try to re-sign Bibby at season’s end, but things have gone so well since Bibby arrived — with Atlanta halting its long playoff drought and taking Boston to seven games in the first round, then starting well this season in spite of multiple injuries — that you’d expect them to knock back any trade interest. One scenario floated this week suggested that Portland is putting Bibby proposals together.

By doc

November 29, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

missed a good game it seems. bibb is looking more and more like three faces of eve who will show up. nice to see another win on the road.

had a great time watching our buddy sautee perform tonight. it was quite a show ay eddie’s attic.

go hawks! and bees.

By ray

November 29, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Youch. Nearly lost that one, but we escaped. Against the Wiz. Well, a win is a win. But can we try not to scare the fans like that?

End of a successful month.

JJ still managed 18 points, despite still not quite being his usual self.

Bibby had a fantastic first half, then all but disappeared in the second half. Before anybody cries foul, let me say that it was largely due to the usual second half blahs where we quit moving the ball and resorted to the 2-man offense. I still don’t understand how that happens. I’d say what I think it is, but there will be a second cry of foul…..

Thankfully, Evans and Horford were really getting it going. Horford was an absolute thorn in the entire Wizards front court.

We got to see another mismatch on defense tonight with Horford having to guard Caron Butler in the waning, very tight minutes of the fourth quarter. After watching the all-star small forward draw foul after foul, and begin some late game heroics, I feared that Horford would be the second player in as many days to be castigated for failing to clamp down on an all-star forward that was clearly a mismatch for him. Fortunately, Horford provided some heroics of his own.

Marvin was solid, although foul trouble bothered him. His efforts on defense have been better and better. And while some said that he would never be any good at shooting three pointers, he continues to excel in this area with a very nice 45.7 percent.

I don’t know what’s with Ronald Murray, but he seems to be seriously out of joint. He’s creating a decent amount of turnovers here lately, and beginnign to look hesitant. He had some ugly ones tonight. Very ugly. But I have no doubts he’ll bounce back. It’s just a matter of bearing down and fixing what’s wrong. Whatever that might be. Then he’ll get back to being a super-sub.

I see Acie got his customary 11.5 minutes tonight. 3 assists was the contribution. Yay. Can’t be mad, seeing as how Bibby was so hot in the first half. However, right about now, I’d rather see Acie in the game than Flip, and he should have been in more in the second half. To be fair, however, Flip can’t very well get back on the path of effectiveness if he’s not getting decent PT.

Anyway…..

Here we are, a fine November Bring on Josh and December. 10 and 6 looks damn good to me Soon we’ll be even better, wait and see.

By terrell barron

November 29, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

The Hawks are 10-6, not 9-6 fellas.

By Astro Joe

November 29, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

So the Hakws finish the early season jaugernaut with a very respectable 10-6 record. We’re playing .500 ball on the road AND we played .500 ball without Josh SMith for 75% of our games. I’m thankful that hopeandexcitement is alive and thriving.

Mo Evans has looked really good these past few games. I wasn’t sold early on but I get it now. Also nice to see how guys like Mo, Zaza and Solo showed in these last two games why they deserve to get PT even after Smith returns next week. I definitely suspect each of those 3 were thinking how they needed to leave Woody with a nice problem.

Flash & richbrave, what were your thoughts on tonight’s game?

By HB Ando

November 30, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

BA, curious you didn’t refer to the prediction the Raps would win, but, rather, mentioned how Marvin would stack up, in an oblique reference to half of my two predictions. The answer is that he matched up with Jamison, who put up 26 points, 13 boards, 5 dimes and 2 three’s, to Marvin’s 14 points and 4 boards.

And with Washington playing the role of the obviously limited “one-legged man, in an a*-kicking contest”, we held off the two-man juggernaut of Jamison and Butler, for a 4-point win.

Sam, as far as the Hawks having a better point guard, for a better price, I would suggest Chris Paul, at $4.5 million, who your cousin, Sekou Smith, has documented, on this very blog, that I steadfastly demanded the Hawks, and Billy Knight, should take, prior to the selection of Marvin Williams. Me, myself, I’d also take Calderon, for $7.5 million, as I recommended to Bruce Levenson, in an ongoing e-mail exchange, back in December of ‘05, well before he cost what is now only half of what the Hawks are paying Bibby.

I’d highlight Deron Williams, as a pretty obvious alternative, for less than a third of the price of Bibby, and another player that Billy could have had instead of Marvin, but I don’t want to be disingenuous and pretend I called for Williams in the same way I adamantly hoped for Paul. But you did ask me to name a PG with Bibby’s ability (you actually said scoring, but if I limited my response to something so basic, I’d have to include Roger Mason’s performance, so far, subbing for Parker in SA, as he is also averaging just over 15 points, like Bibby), who doesn’t cost as much.

Throw in Crawford, Terry, Rose, Billups, Mo Williams, Baron Davis, Nate Robinson, TJ Ford, Nelson, Sessions, Andre Miller, Felton, Devin Harris, Tony Parker, and even DJ Augustin, who ALL score more than, or within a couple of average PPG, for LESS money than Bibby.

In fact, that statement, requesting the notation of a PG who scores more than Bibby, for the same money, might be the most ignorant point ever made on this blog. Other than Marbury and Stevie Franchise, there are no more overpaid PG’s in the NBA.

Period.

A catch-and-shoot Bibby is, realistically, Boobie Gibson, for 10 times the money.

And, again, if the ASG trades him prior to the deadliine, it won’t be because me, or anyone else, is “hating” on him.

It will simply be an acknowledgment that the ASG can’t afford him, relative to his one-dimensional contribution (but, hey, Marvin looks primed to replace Bibby as our designated catch-and-shoot contributor), and their limited finances, exacerbated by a historically bad economy.

The Hawks really need the energy of Josh Smith, back on the court. With every passing game, his absence is notable, not only in his missing statistical contribution, but in what appears to be a consistently lower level of intensity, by the team as a whole.

By ILL-logical

November 30, 2008 1:13 AM | Link to this

ZaZa: DNP Coaches decision. JJ: 44+ minutes. WTF! Is the current incumbant coach tied to an arrangement that has him fired if he loses x number of games?

By reese

November 30, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this

First of all, its nice to get a win against Washington. I was at the Toronto game at Phillips arena and I was pleased at Woodson’s use of the bench. I thought that Randolph Morris played with confidence, scored points, grabbed rebounds, blocked/altered shots and bodied up against Jermaine Oneal.

Now, Woodson has fallen in love with an 8 man rotation and won’t play solo in the 4th quarter. Joe Johnson is hurt and Woodson plays him 44 minutes against Washington.

Maybe its me, but did anyone else notice the poor transition defense of the hawks. Especially, the fact that neither Joe or Marvin ran down court to help out. Also, did anyone else notice that while Solomon Jones was blocking shots, that neither Joe or Marvin fought to get the loose ball. Did anyone else notice that several hawks defenders had fouls called on them because they didn’t move their feet to challenge Caron Butler’s drives into the lane and just lazily reached in to slap the ball.

Marvin is a very efficient offensive shooter. I think that he would be a good player to bring off the bench. He doesn’t need a lot of shots to score double figures. Plus, he doesn’t show the aggressiveness to want to take a lot of shots. Alternating, Evans or Solo as starters would solve the intensity issues at beginning of games. Having Bibby as a shooting point guard guarantees that we have at least 2 outside threats to compensate for not having Marvin in the starting lineup.

Woodson is going to have a decision to make about playing time when Josh Smith comes back. Woodson has been hiding Marvin in the power forward position and Maurice Evans has been balling in the small forward position. Evan’s has demonstrated that he will take/make the 3, he can rebound, he can fill the lane and score on the fast break and he plays good team defense. Although, he has not shown the ability to stop players with his one on one defense. But at least he tries to move his feet and doesn’t just grab players.

By BA

November 30, 2008 4:19 AM | Link to this

Is this blog blown up? Or has there really been no one to post in ten hours?!

By Sautee

November 30, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

new blog up