Hawks

By KingoftheRing

October 24, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Hmm, i love the scouting and recruiting aspects of both college and pro. I wonder who that “other” player is that Herb Livsey refers to. I feel 40 - 45 solid wins has us heading in the right direction.

By Sautee

October 24, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Sekou

We got lucky last year being mostly injury-free. I’ll only agree to a 3 game improvement to 40, because if JJ, Josh or Al go down for any extended time, we are sunk. So put me down for 40. That said, I am excited about this team, but injuries happen, and we dodged that bullet last year.

Nice mea culpa on Hunter, and big ups to the scouting department.

By James Banks

October 24, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Sekou, Last year’s team suffered a large number of road losses primarily due to lack of maturity. With a healthy Mike Bibby, the additions of veterans Murray and Evans, obvious improvements by Pachulia (mental/physical health) and Jones (physique) and the expected development of the 4 youngsters (Horford, Smith, Williams and LawIV)to complement the All-Star level play of Joe Johnson, this year’s team should reach the 45 win plateau barring major injuries.

Two questions: First, does your prediction presume that Mike Bibby will be on the Hawks’ roster for the entire season? Second, have you identified that “All-Star caliber” player that can take the Hawks to the 50-win plateau and, if so, what it will take to obtain him?

By Sekou K. Smith

October 24, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

My prediction is based on the team as constituted today James Banks. I can’t deal with what might happen, so I’m going strictly by what we’re working with right now. And yes, it’s with Bibby on the roster and riding out the season.

By Ron E.

October 24, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Mike Woodson sucks and the new bench won’t make up for the loss of Childress. I see the Hawks with 35-40 wins and missing the playoffs.

By ant banks

October 24, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

sekou i predict 45+ wins, provided the following happens as much as possible:

1. hawks need to score 100pts/game, last yr they only scored this about 28 times. they were 8 games where if they had scored 100 they would have won.

2. they need to shoot higher than 35% from 3pt line, which is what they shot last yr. I think that they can get this up to 40%

3. ft% was 77% last yr, they have got to get this up to 82%.

4. rebounds must be upwards of 42 per night, which is a must if you are shooting a bunch of three’s.

5. assists needs to be about 25 per night and t/o needs to be less than 14. hawks avg. about 22 assist/game last yr.

6. must sell out home games. can’t afford to lose any of these. we saw how well they played at home in front of a sellout during the boston series.

these 6 things in conjuction on a nightly bases will result in 45 plus wins.

By Richie

October 24, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

I don’t know how many wins the Hawks will have, but I think they will finish 5th in the East.

By Samuel

October 24, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Our goal should be to move up at least one spot in the playoffs so we don’t have to play the best team the first round. We have shown that we can beat Orlando.

I really don’t care about victory numbers just position in the playoffs. We should be improved. I’m good with 45 wins as an improvement but I don’t think 50 is out of the question. BYBHMM!!

By Greg

October 24, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

I’ll go in for 42 wins. I like what I’ve seen so far, and I think the bench is somewhat underrated.

By Dan

October 24, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Sekou

I have two predictions

1. The Hawks will finish with 45 wins, just as you talked about.

2. Pain for your Wolverines! Go STATE!!

By James Banks

October 24, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Sekou, Thanks for the response. A few quick questions (last ones for today). We know the starters and we know that LawIV, Murray, Evans, Jones, Morris and Pachulia are on the roster and seems as though Claxton and Hunter will have roster spots and the Hawks plan to go with 14 roster spots so who will get that final roster spot? Mario West or Thomas Gardner?

Also, will Claxton be on the active roster or injured reserve? And, should Hunter go to the D-League to get some playing time/experience or should he stay in Atlanta to learn from coaches/players during and after practice?

Sorry for all the questions—color me curious.

By crs

October 24, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Goals should be 50 wins and one of the top four spots in the east. Both are attainable goals. The Hawks should no longer be blown out. The bench is better which should make for better performances in the back to backs of the NBA. Big question for me is can Marvin Williams become our #2 guy night in and night out as we hoped when we took him out of UNC. If he does then this becomes a dangerous team.

By khao$

October 24, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

Are the injuries to Smoove and JJ considered serious enough to fear missing time? I didn’t know JJ had some groin issues. I cringed when I heard Smith sprained his ankle.

By terrell barron

October 24, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Hawks finish 43-39. 7th seed in the east. Upset Orlando in the 1st rd in 7 games. Lose to Cleveland in 2nd rd in 6 games. Cleveland and Boston make it back to Eastern Conference Finals with Cleveland pulling the upset.

By MannyT

October 24, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

The fake 8 is done. Reality now begins. Time to predict Our total of wins.

The flex sub is gone Chills spoke his peace Due to bad negotiations He lives now in Greece.

His replacements are many Flip Mo raps the bench Zaza Solo plugs the middle We should not be in a pinch.

The roster is stronger Many cheer goody, goody But we all know The wildcard is Woody

Good coaching wins 50 Hope and Dismay I see If ol’ BWAF gets 35 and then he must flee.

BUT fanhood says different Skill development has begun He’ll play the bench and outdo 41.

He’ll get a new rotation, but, we need a little more Woody likes this job and wins 44!

By terrell barron

October 24, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Flip Murray 19-9? Zaza Pachulia 18-8? Wtf? If we can get half of that from those 2 guys all year, WATCH OUT!

By mavid

October 24, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I must say I am intrigued by your predicition, as it is higher than I wouldve thought. Buy hey, you see these guys play everday, so Im taking this as good news.

My prediction is:

43-39

6-8 seed

By JD

October 24, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

I had the pleasure of watching the game last night and I’ve got to say that this is a very different Hawks team. The score was close throughout the first half, but when the second half started and the Pistons started pulling away a bit, there was something different with these Hawks. Instead of folding like origami, this team fought back. Granted, it was mostly second teamers and such, but the Pistons have a pretty solid bench with Stuckey, Bynum, Maxiell, Afflalo, and a couple of others that can carry some of the slack once Billups, Hamilton, Wallace, Prince, and others are not on the floor. For the Hawks much-maligned second team (in recent years) going against that bunch in that building and be able to not only come back from being down by as much as 14 points, but to WIN shows that this team is poised to really compete in the Eastern Conference.

I’m really not big into predicting wins and losses at this early stage of things because you don’t know what can happen during the course of the season. They should be a lot better, and I’ll say 45 wins, but with the way players get injured and the severity of those injuries can weigh heavily on a team’s performance and the outcome of the season.

Big ups to the Hawks for rolling with the punches last night…..those kinds of wins (preseason or whenever) leads to building team character and unity.

GO HAWKS!!!

By Eric S.

October 24, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

I hate to say it, but I’m not as optimistic as you for this team. I’m a Hawks fan transplanted in St. Louis, but I watch all the games thanks to my trusty Dish (missed 2 of 82 last season).

I question this team’s overall maturity. I’m not so sure Josh Smith has matured to the point where he’s ready to go at it every night. There’s pressure when you’re coming off a big contract. I also question Marvin’s dedication to becoming a great player. He’s a very solid player. But I’m not so sure he’s ready to take the “next” step. He has to want it. He’s too athletic to settle for 15 foot jumpers every time he’s on the court. I do, however, like that he’s expanded his repetoire with the three point shot.

Finally, I think we all realize this but none of us want to say it: Bibby has a lost a step. He was absolutely dominated by Rondo vs. the Celtics, and nobody seems to make much of it. Bibby is light years better than what we had for the first 60 games of last season, but he’s not the Mike Bibby of old. He struggled just getting the ball up the court against a younger, quicker and longer Rondo.

I think this team wins 40 games and sneaks into the playoffs as the 8th seed.

One bold prediction: This team will struggle out of the gate, and Woodson will be fired right before the All-Star break. He is not the right person to coach this team. (D’antoni would have been, but Sund has already proved he is incapable as a GM by muffing the J-Chil free agency deal. (God bless you Chil)) We won 3 games against the Celtics in spite of Woodson, not because of him. Anybody who watched our half-court offense operate in the final minutes of Games 4 and 6 vs. the Celtics could not state otherwise. Not to mention Sekou (and please comment on this), Woodson had this inexplicable fear of taking Joe Johnson out when he had 2 fouls in Games 1 and 2 even though the Hawks had nothing to lose in those games!

I hope I’m wrong.

• ES

By doc

October 24, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Sorry Sekou I don’t really think anyone here cares enough to read a 6 paragraph email about how one of our benchwarmers got here. Thanks anyway.

By cp

October 24, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

I want to say 45 wins but I think we win around 42. I don’t like our perimeter defense and there is always the Woodson factor.

By MannyT

October 24, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

doc I read the e-mail. The rest of the story can have its moments. If he doesn’t put it in a blog, he’ll have to start sekousmith.com

I find it interesting that he started scouting for the Hawks at 68. I might be a lot farther from retirement than I thought.

A point of clarification on my 44 win prediction. The deeper bench gets you 4 more wins. Woody loses 3 fewer games this season when he is baffled mid-game. That’s a 7 game improvement.

and something that got sucked into the void a few blogs ago for all the new fathers. You don’t have to miss all the Hawks games. Think playdate at Philips. Bring the kid in a Baby Bjorn.

Why? the new BWAF—Babies Want Active Fathers ;-)

By ScoobySnacks (the most underappreciated blog participant/prognosticator of all time)

October 24, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Okay so last year I got ahead of my self

*see Humpday Ramblings Oct. 31,2007 where I said: *

I already know exactly how many the Hawks will win. The answer is 47. Would be 48, but they’ll get beat on an overtime buzzer beater in the last game of the regular season. Now that is a prediction! What’s this range stuff?

I have been commenting to this blog at least twice a week since the beginning and have noticed a pattern. I am always a season or so ahead of myself with my predicitons. (For example, I predicted that Billy Knight would quit instead of getting fired two seasons ago.)

One thing this does is make it easier to predict the future—you simply look at the past. With that said this years Hawks will win exactly —-quote me on this—-47 and 3/4 games. They will make the playoffs and win their first round matchup. After which, Woodson will still get fired in order to “take the team to the ‘next level’ “. maybe

Either way, this team is definately better than last years. Believe it or else.

By Joe

October 24, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

I have to say, this team is promising but as long as we have Woody leading them, we will never be a serious contender. We didnt have a winning record last season under him, why would things cant this year? Bring in a coach and with this level of talent we are looking to be at least a 4 -5 playoff seed.

By Sekou K. Smith

October 24, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

JJ and Josh are not seriously injured.

It looks like West and Gardner are both going to be on the opening day roster. Speedy will have to be on the inactive list because he hasn’t played yet. And Hunter has a chance to stick around on the roster but would probably be better served with some serious playing time in the D-League.

And Dan, it doesn’t pay to be a Hater bro.

And Doc, the email wasn’t the point. The behind the scenes work (more work than we give anyone credit for doing) that goes into something as simple as adding a guy like Hunter was the point. Come on man, it’s Friday, lighten up. Ha.

By Clyde

October 24, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

This is the same team from last year. It might be a tad worse without Chillz. The Champ Has Spoken: 37-45

Roll Tide!!!!

By doc

October 24, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

just read the new blog if that sets the record straight. obvious flaws in the impersonation if that is the intention.

By Dan

October 24, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

JD

Do you really feel like you can take anything from that game last night? I was able to watch it, too. The Pistons barely played any of their regulars (Sheed, RIP, Billups). Plus, the Hawks did not have Joe and Josh Smith left early with the hurt ankle. I just felt like I learned hardly anything about this team after last night’s win.

I agree, it is cool they did not fold, but they shouldn’t fold playing the Piston JV team.

A lot of good dunks, though. The reverse that Evans put down over the Piston big guy (I forgot who) was sweet!! If you guys did not see that one, try to. Might be one of the best dunks of the year, by a member of this team not named Josh Smith.

By kirknga

October 24, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

If everyone remains healthy for most of the season, and Josh Smith plays like the player people pleaded for all summer, the Hawks should win 40-45 games this season.

The bench seems to be versatile and an asset, Marvin seems to have taken a step up,Bibby seems to be finding his shooting touch and the team has had a taste of success.

I hope for the team’s sake that Josh Smith becomes an All Star this season. I think it would be unfair to point to his preseason performance and expect a carry over through the season.

I predict: 1.Boston 2. Cleveland 3. Orlando 4.Philadelphia 5.Detroit 6. Toronto-Washington-Atlanta-Chicago-and some unexpected team to be the playoff teams in the East.

By MsDee

October 24, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Well, I guess it really doesn’t matter what our final record is since we did make the playoffs winning only 37 games. I think whats important is where we land in the East Conf and I say #6!!

By terrell barron

October 24, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Eric S., “muffed the Childress free-agency thing?” How is it a muff we you add 3 good players(FlipMo/Morris) for the price of one? Chills left for the bread man. Can you blame him? You cant just throw money at young players who have’nt really proved anything. Why bid against yourselves? Let the market set the value. Just like Memphis did with Smoove. I cant recall any other teams making any offers for Chills? So if he woulda stayed in the NBA, he’d most likely still be a Hawk.

By I.MUS WRITE

October 24, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Jeezuz DOC…… I was thinking the exact same thing. Hunter will have the same virus as Solo and Acie from last year “Splinteritis” Who cares how he got here. The guy has potential,but he is a work in progress -dont really see him helping much this year

How about some useful info like …How bad is Smooves ankle,JJ’s groin,Speedy’s multitude of injuries etc…..

Ron E.- We know Woody is questionable,but u’re wrong about Chillz,Itz not hard to replace 11/5 and middle of the road defense. Never saw Chills offensevely take over a game- but flip has. Never saw Chillz hit 4-4 on 3’s,but Mo has. Dont know why so many think the fro is irreplaceable

Manny T- Didnt know u were a poet bruh…LOL Bibby looks like he’s playing with ankle weights on,that man is so slow -it looks like he’s been chopped n screwed. Unless he im proves -all we have is an old slow pg with a streaky jumper…….dam that sounds like the pg by commitee we had at the beginning of last year.

I dont know if he will be here the whole year but I can think of better ways to spend 15 amilli amilli.

Prediction: 44-38 6 seed…… Falcons roll into Philly and bust sum heads…..

By I.MUS WRITE

October 24, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Dam -Sekou that was quick

By jhan

October 24, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Put me down for 42-40

7th or 8th seed in the Eastern Conference.

By Nookah

October 24, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

I might as well throw in my 2 cents worth. I’m not as technically and fundamentally sound as some of the so-called experts on this blog. I’m just a Hawks fan and a loyal one at that.

I am looking at this from the stand point that this is a stronger team due to the fact that I feel (1) the bench is much better (2) Mike Bibby will be here for a while and he is a genuine PG (3) in the same vein, Acie Law will be much better (and so for Marvin et al. I think this will be Marvin’s break out year (4) Zaza and Solomon will be more focussed and more solid (5) Flip and Mo will add far more uumphhh!!! from the bench (see 1) (6) Woodson is more “experienced” and hopefully the playoff run last year will make him better (7) Josh has his contract and will want to prove that he is worth that and more.

All these factors and I am sure more from the experts will help us achieve a 48 win season.

Can’t wait for the season to start!!!

Go Hawks!!!!

Nuff respect!!!

By Astro Joe

October 24, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Put me down for a 42-40 record which should get us the 7th seed in the playoffs. It will be interesting to see who is still around at the end of the season. Among those possibly leaving the franchise… the ATL/DC portion of the ASG, Belkin, Woody, Bibby & Zaza.

By Ariose

October 24, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

48-34 6th seed….Barring Injuries or a stupid mid-season trade.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Blast

October 24, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

The Hawks take care of home court, win a few more road games, and 45 wins should be attainable from this bunch.

I liked the aquisitions of Murray and Evans right from the start, and those cats will really help us.

Zaza needs to remain aggressive, Acie, Holford and Solo keeps developing, a healthy JJ should be a top ten scorer in the league, and Josh should remain a beast.

Barring serious injuries to key players, I think 2008-2009 is the breakthrough year for the Hawks. 45 wins of better is possible, despite Woody. How they play to begin the season with all those road games will give us a better idea of what exactly they can do.

By richbrave

October 24, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

DERMARR JOHNSON was cut by the WIZ because he had no chance of making the 15 roster. All 15 already had partial or fully guaranteed contracts before the pre-season began.

That being said, he showed well(especially in EUROPE) and would be a limited asset off the bench if the HAWKS feel they need it.

The problem becomes WOODY. If he tightens up and limits his rotation in tough circumstances, what chance do any of the “pine-bearers” have of escaping the splinters.? Fact is, they can’t.

My philosophy is, if a player is good enough to be on a 15-man in the NBA, he possesses limited tools at the very least. He should be used that way on the hardwood not stay disguised as a bench cover. Otherwise, how does he improve his skill set.?

Who the he!! needs a high-priced baby-sitter…..uh-h-h, coach.? Sorry. I can’t abide wasting payroll on athletes because someone in authority is limited it their perspectives regarding multiple players and their relative strengths and weaknesses.

I see EDDIE JORDAN taking calculated chances all the time on new and young guys. Pardon moi, si vous plais. Just sayin’.

By doc

October 24, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

sekou with sund involved in the camp for the draftees i assumed he was one of the ones that fell through the cracks ai expected him to be picking up. felt his participation would help us in the long run. was surprised when it was reported otherwise and fortunately i didnt make too much of it as the first report was inaccurate and glad the guy set the story straight.. anyhooo, why would larrrrrreeee want to help us. glad the story is out and those overlooked credited appropriately. whether it was larry or woody the kid was not destined to play much unless the tiger changes it stripes, but i am glad we got him incase someone wants to coach him up and give him some confidence. did anyone tell those new guys to watch out for the white stuff and i dont mean cocaine?

sekou always lighthearted for the most part, forgive my impersonator. again, if one looks closely, if that was an impersonation, it was very flawed and most should have picked up on it immediately.

By doc

October 24, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

sekou with sund involved in the camp for the draftees i assumed he was one of the ones that fell through the cracks ai expected him to be picking up. felt his participation would help us in the long run. was surprised when it was reported otherwise and fortunately i didnt make too much of it as the first report was inaccurate and glad the guy set the story straight.. anyhooo, why would larrrrrreeee want to help us. glad the story is out and those overlooked credited appropriately. whether it was larry or woody the kid was not destined to play much unless the tiger changes it stripes, but i am glad we got him incase someone wants to coach him up and give him some confidence. did anyone tell those new guys to watch out for the white stuff and i dont mean cocaine?

sekou always lighthearted for the most part, forgive my impersonator. again, if one looks closely, if that was an impersonation, it was very flawed and most should have picked up on it immediately.

By JD

October 24, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Dan,

Even though the starters didn’t play any major minutes last night or didn’t play at all, I think you can take away the fact that the reserves are not gonna get rattled when faced with a little adversity. The unit that was on the floor (Law, Murray, Evans, MWilliams, and Pachulia) could have easily mailed that game in and had the mentality that it was a only a preseason game and it didn’t matter. The thing that impressed me, though, was that they fought through it, even when Detroit opened up the lead. In recent history, the Hawks would have quit and would have just gone through the motions of just playing the game, but when the Pistons went on their run and had their fans and bench involved in the game, the Hawks didn’t quit. To me, by not giving up and making a concerted effort to come back shows volumes of what our bench and role players can do during the course of the season.

There will be nights when they will be a bit overmatched, but I would want to know if the reserves could at least keep the game close and competitive as opposed to just running up and down the court for the sake of making a game check.

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 24, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Realistic prediction: 40 wins and the 8th seed.

By The Truth

October 24, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

The only prediction I would be willing to make is that we may be better than last year. By how many wins, I don’t know. Much depends on injuries, team chemisty and above all, coaching. The improvement will happen not because of Woody but in spite of him. I’m sorry but the repetition of poor defense and offense set are reflections of wrong coaching for this team. I’m careful not to say bad coaching but wrong coaching. Woody is more of a preacher than a teacher. He can certainly play to the press and point out players misstates, but he lack the ability to translate them into corrective action. That’s why we keep seeing the same old problems again and again no matter what the personnel looks like. In my opinion, we need a teacher/coach for this still young team. A coach with a confrontational defensive philosophy. There is a reason why Detroit is so competetive. Their defense has been their constant throughout the years. BK hired Woody because of the outstanding defense in his resume but he has not delivered on his defense credentials. We all know, at the end of the day, offense sales tickets, but defense wins games, playoff runs and oh yes, championships. If we are to actually win more games this year, these players will have to gut-it-out on their own with no help comming from Woody. It will be a proud thing for them personally. This was the same attitude this team had in the playoff against Boston.

By Eric S.

October 24, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

terrell barron

They muffed the Chill signing because they could have had him at the mid-level if they just offered it up at the start of FA. I agree that Chill isn’t worth more than that, but he was worth that much given his role on the team.

I like Evans, but don’t get too excited about Flip & Morris. Flip may be having a good pre-season, but I’m skeptical on his abilities when it counts. He had a nice 20 game run in Seattle a few years back, but I’m still not convinced. I think Randolph could be a solid backup, but Woody won’t ever play him because he’s too worried about getting fired. Watch. He single handedly stunted Law’s growth.

• ES

By Sekou K. Smith

October 24, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Glad to know you haven’t turned to the dark side on us doc. And again, for any other impostors out there, the point of the email was to show some insight into the detailed process that is securing a dude for a final roster spot.

Josh and Joe are fine and are expected to be ready to go against Orlando, so there is no injury news to report. Speedy’s still a mystery (as to when he’ll actually be in the rotation, because he’s moving around but not just not back into the full mix right now).

By Willie Coyote

October 24, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

47ish & 35ish is my prediction. Hopefully they’ll surprise everyone and hit 50.

By darrell starks

October 24, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

I THINK WOODY HAVE GO BIG AND BRING MARVIN OF THE BENCH AND MOVE HARFORD TO POWER FORD THIS TEAM WILL BE STRONGER . GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By JD

October 24, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

I agree that they could have had Childress for the mid-level exception, and I also think that the Hawks backed themselves into a corner by trying to let the market set the price instead of showing a sense of urgency and signing him (Childress) as soon as the free agent signing period started. But, the Hawks in their infinite wisdom dared Josh to find a better deal than what was being offered and he did. Can’t blame them for trying to play the odds. It’s just that this time, a factor that they obviously overlooked came into play and the Hawks got caught with their pants down. Lesson learned.

But, you’ve got to like the pieces that Sund has brought in. Murray has been a consistent contributor to any team he’s played with. Throughout the broadcast last night (and it was broadcast by FSN-Detroit instead of our local FSN-South or SportSouth) all the two announcers could rave about was how much the Pistons valued Flip’s skills when he was with them. I know an announcer’s opinion of a player carries little merit, but wherever he’s gone Murray’s been spoken of in good fashion.

Mo Evans was in a similar boat like Childress this off-season with his situation in Orlando. He was also considering a move overseas until he was made an offer to play with the Hawks. He doesn’t have Childress’ height, but he is as effective a defender who’s not afraid to step up to a challenge (even though he got beat by Grant Hill on that last second shot last week against Phoenix, you’ve got to love a guy that prides himself in stepping up to the challenge).

It’s not as hopeless as it may seem for the Hawks to make some noise this season. It’s gonna be hard at first since they have a majority of their games on the road, but the point of the pre-season is to generated comraderie and gel as a team. If they’re able to get through that stretch relatively unscathed, they’ll be fine.

By Samuel

October 24, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

I really am sick of the hate and just plain ignorant comments towards Woody. You guys act like we actually had players for him to play. Realistically, how many teams have 10-12 players good enough to get real meaningful minutes? If we can come up with 9 solid players,(JJ,Bibby,Marvin,Josh,Al,Flip, Mo,Za Za, Acie) Mario in spots. That’s dam_ good.

We have that this year so I expect Woody to play 9 guys. The others are scrubbs and I do not want to see them on the court, except for garbage time maybe. They have a role to play. In practice

Please.

By Samuel

October 24, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

I forgot Solo. That’s 10. There you have it, a full second unit to play.

By I.MUS WRITE

October 24, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

The Truth- You hit the nail on the head my man…….. Preacher instead of teacher describes Woody to a T. Woody say’s all the right things to the media, but there doesnt seem to be much teaching going on. Have’nt we been here before- coach and player dust ups,because the coach belittles and (crit-icises)the players instead of teaching and developing. Now that I think about it -who the hell annointed Woody a defensive coach- I have’nt seen a dam thang that would put him in that category. I cant wait to see how he,uses the bench,offense,etc….

By I.MUS WRITE

October 24, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

Darrell- Come on dude what the hell did your post say,it soundz like blah blah blah.

Sekou,any other imposters blah blah blah

By Reggie

October 24, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Sekou

So which player do you think needs to be the biggest difference maker for the hawks to make that 7-10 win improvement.

I believe its Josh Smith. He has got to play more consistent. I know he put up good numbers last year, but I think he can raise that PPG to close to 19-20 points per game. I also want to see an increase in his field goal percentage to about 47-52%. I think he is crtical. When he is on his game, this hawks team can play wth anybody in the east.

What do you think?

By Ken Strickland

October 24, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

If Woodson wasn’t the HC, I’d probably have a heavy dose of that affliction RAY has often mentioned. I have no doubt the Hawks have the talent and depth to win 50 games. However, it would take much better coaching than Woodson has shown so far. The Hawks have a number of noticable weaknesses. It would take superior coaching, and an OFF that maximumizes the teams strengths, while at the same time minimizing its weaknesses.

An improved, more experienced Horford, Marvin, Acie should be a contributing factor. A reenergized Zaza ane Solo, the addition of vets Morris, Murray and Evans, along with a healthy, acclimated Bibby, should be worth an addition 13 wins. HOWEVER, WE ALL KNOW THAT’S PREDICATED ON ALL ELEMENTS BEING UTILIZED AND IMPLIMENTED PROPERLY AND REGULARLY, WITHOUT WOODSON’S DOGHOUSE EFFECT BEING EMPLOYED.

By ant banks

October 24, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

i.mus a friend of mine mentioned that he had heard that josh did not work on his game at all this summer. he was travelin’ back and forth tryin’ to see who would take him.

by the way he has been playin’ it looks true. have you heard anything to this effect?

By Reggie

October 24, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

I have this team going 43-39. I expect improvement out of this team. Even though we lost J-Chill, this team still has very good young talent. Al Horford should be a lot better after his solid rookie season, Josh Smith is getting a year older, and You see the upside in him, he has gotten better every year, and its time to see Marvin Williams step up and become a more complete offensive player. I dont see him as a ALL-Star but, he can be a very good player in the mold of a Corey Maggette. Mike Bibby being back a full season should help. Anything less than 42 wins out of this team is a callosal failure.

By I.MUS WRITE

October 24, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Samuel its not hate if you’re telling the truth. Woody is’nt the worst coach i’ve seen but he’s far from the best………

The reality of it is -he got the contract because our owners are penny pinchers and we had a good showing against the Celtics.

I hope for his sake that he’s changed his stripes from a year ago—-or he will get the buzzinezz on this blog, so u might wanna get ready for that.

Sam -got a question for u- give me one thing that woody specializes in or a player he’s developed over the last 5 years, have you ever said that guy knows X’s and O’s….or that guy has a solid defensive scheme…….probably not

Were stuck with this guy so I wont complain at all once the season starts -

By I.MUS WRITE

October 24, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Naw Ant …I have’nt heard anything like that,but remember that Josh has always been a slow starter….Last year we were all like whats wrong with the Josh’es …..nothing-they just get out of the gates slow-I hope thats not the case this season or we’ll be in trouble considering the schedule

By cp

October 24, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

*I.MUS WRITE * I was saying the same thing last night about Bibby. Right now the guy is looking like Ty Lue on the court. Streaky jumper and terrible defense. He really is going to have to pick it up.

I would love to have Dermarr on this team. He is another guy who can play multiple positions and spread the floor with his 3 point ability but I doubt we give him a look.

By Matt = niremetal

October 24, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

I’m adjusting my range slightly to say 37-43 wins. If pressed, I’ll go with 41-41.

I’m still disagreeing heavily with anyone who thinks that the East as a whole drastically improved over the offseason. The only teams that improved significantly were the Cavs and Sixers. I think the Raptors got marginally better, but I have lots of doubts. I don’t think Calderon will prove to be anything more than “above average” as a full-time starter, and the team has one of the thinnest benches in the league - which is not the position you want to be in when Bosh and O’Neal are your starters in the frontcourt. In any case, those were all teams that finished ahead of the Hawks. I don’t see any time that finished behind them improving significantly this year. The Bucks still have the worst defense in the league, Derrick Rose the Rook won’t be much better than Duhon was last year, yada yada.

By HB Ando

October 24, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Sam, your in for $50. If you want a shot at winning $100 off of me, I offer another $50 on which one of us has the better regular season win-loss record in our fantasy league. You in (honor and manhood almost require you to accept this bet, since you waited until you saw how the pre-season went before taking a bet on the Hawks that was on the table for a long, long time-and the window is closed for all new comers)?

Prediction time: I’m going to stick with sub-.500, and go with a number that seems popular with some similar-minded folks: 40-42

I expect that the major injury issues in DC will drop the Wiz under us, so the 8th seed is within the Hawks’ grasp, even with 40 wins.

I think, though, that Bibby will be traded (seems a lot of folks have moved to my way off seeing this recently). I think Woody will still struggle, managing rotations. And I think that many of our rotations will have a specific flaw that will limit their effectiveness (our “big” lineups will be very poor shooting teams; our “small” lineups will struggle on the boards and on the defensive end). I think we’ll be better, offensively, while Bibby is still here, and better, defensively, once he’s gone. Whether the Hawks get any help, for this season, when they do trade Bibby, is a HUGE question mark, which could significantly impact the final results in the standings.

Should be a pretty fun product, to watch, with more maddeningly inconsistent performances.

If JJ goes down, for any extended period of time, they’ll be lucky to play above a .350 clip while he’s out. Outcome might not be much different if Horford gets hurt for any lengthy period. Any other one guy (and I’m going to include Smith on this list) gets hurt, the added depth should be able to cover for that player.

Last nights’ win wasn’t much more than a psychological boost, for a team looking for confidence. Our regular season starters combined for 97 minutes, while Detroit’s played a grand total of 39. We were missing one all-star, and they had two from last years’ team, on the bench.

Time to quit wondering how much these pre-season performances mean, and see what the Hawks actually do in prime time………

By MannyT

October 24, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

terrell & I.MUS* Face it. Eric S. has it correct. You are taking the easy, after the fact view which is not really accurate. Documentation is below.

In the meantime, Evans will help. Different skills, but definitely helpful. Same for Flip. The answer that we won’t know is could we have added them and kept Chills. I think there was a possibility of adding instead of replacing.

I.MUS If I use a similar case for you that you did for Chills, I’d complain about your blogging because you don’t tell me about more movie stars. In fact that would be a false point. One of the best things you bring is a good insight on the players as they come through your jobsite. To knock something that isn’t your role is making a false case. Chills was never an aggressive scoring threat in the NBA. Not his role. Good teams need someone on the court who contributes without commanding the ball on offense.

The role that Chills played on this team was doing little things. He didn’t command the ball, but he found ways to score, rebound and be on the court playing different roles. That flexibility made Woody a better coach. Now he has to actively put guys in and take guys out instead of making small adjustments on the fly. He will have to coach better without Chills.

Without commanding the ball and w/o a jump shot he made 22 3pt shots. Almost as many as Smith in about 40 less attempts. He tried 50 more than Marvin.

Source http://sportsonmymind.com/2008/07/30/breaking-josh-childress-on-the-dan-patrick-show/

I knew they weren’t going to pay me what I’m getting paid in Greece. But I wanted to be paid fairly. And when that didn’t happen, they told me to look elsewhere.

“The inability to get something done and the sense of urgency to get something done… I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t the one left out.”

On a conference call with his agent’s office in early July, Atlanta Hawks forward Josh Childress was told about all the N.B.A. teams interested in signing him. Franchises like Phoenix, San Antonio, Oklahoma City and Cleveland were discussed before his agent, Jim Tanner, added one surprise.

Chills could have been S&T within the NBA and the Hawks would have received something for him. They opted to play hard ball. Neither offering him the mid level exception nor negotiating a sign & trade. When he found another way out, the Hawks came to the table with the MLE. At that point you are comparing MLE from a group that has not negotiated well against a lot more money and appreciation from Olympiacos. He chose the Greeks.

Enough of that.

BWAF

By HB Ando

October 24, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Joe, same goes for you as Sam: you should double your wager and match it on which of us has the better W-L record, during regular season, in our fantasy league. It’s a matter of honor, and betting on something you can actually impact and control.

What say you, Joe? Seems like easy money, since I’m prone to outlandish player predictions and silly opinions.

By MannyT

October 24, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Samuel I have no problem with Woody as a person. I do question his coaching. He stated that he ran a shorter bench toward the end of last season. Most agree that his personnel is more effective when they run. However, he often slows them down. Until he shows the ability to be flexible in his coaching approach, there is no proof that he will make this team more effective with his in game coaching.

I do not expect him to clear the bench every game. I do expect him to create mismatches and advantages with the team he runs. We play a smaller front court. Do things to make it easier on that front court—like run.

With a similarly young team and no Greg Oden, Nate McMillan showed a world of difference (when comapred to Woody) as a coach last season. Woody needs to step up.

Just like I need to do to take y’all down in fantasy hoops this season;-)

By Eric S.

October 24, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Samuel -

I’m going to respond quickly to your comments re Woodson. Woodson is a below average coach. There is no other way to spin this.

His major failure last season was his inability to use the bench. Pachulia should have gotten more minutes, but instead he lost confidence because Woodson took him out of the starting lineup and gave him spotty minutes. Acie Law’s development was stunted when Woodson didn’t want to play a rookie the last 30 games of the season. The rest of our bench was an unmitigated disaster. I agree with that, but those guys (Pachulia & Law) should have gotten more run.

You simply cannot defend Woodson’s coaching in the playoffs. It was downright horrific. His past mistakes caught up to him in Game 1, when he was forced to play Law (who actually delivered if you remember). Woodson also was trigger happy in sending his stars to the bench when they got into foul trouble. Why send JJ to the bench after 2 fouls when you haven’t used the bench all season to begin with? And you have nothing to lose.

I’m tired of hearing how Woodson is a “defensive” coach. The team was worse defensively after we got Bibby than before. We were giving up a ton of points and not defending at all. For Woodson to pitch himself as a “defensive” coach and have our team slide significantly in that area should have been the final dagger.

Finally, Woodson’s play calling is vanilla - and at times, horrific. His lack of creativity in running an offense can be seen by how bad our half-court offense was last season. Even in the playoffs it was bad. Anybody who watches this team knows that. This team needs to run as Sekou has said for years. Yet Woody wants to run a half-court set, and we can’t even do that right under his system.

• ES

By truly1

October 24, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

First time blogger I counted at the least 46 wins if they are a average to good team. Please hawks no more bad loses to teams you should have beaten.

By Ken Strickland

October 24, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

Why are so many of you obcessed with applying projected injuries as a criteria for determining the total # of Hawks wins? How many of you think teams like Cleveland(LJames), Boston(KGarnett/PPierce), Miami(Wade/Marion), Detroit(RWallace/Hamilton), Orlando(DHoward)or Toronto(CBosh)wouldn’t be affected just as much, if not more so, by the loss of one of their key players?

Some of you also make a big issue of the East being so much more improved. Well, wouldn’t that affect the other Eastern teams just as much as the Hawks? In other words, if the overall improvement of Eastern teams keeps the Hawks from winning more gms, wouldn’t it also cut down own the number of wins for other Eastern teams as well?

It seems some of you have been following the Hawks losing ways so long, you’ve developed a losing approach towards the team no matter what. You’re inventing nonexistent excuses to hold them back. For some of you, it seems you don’t think the players have the right to even consider the possibility of winning 50 gms. After all, how are they going to overcome those fantasy injuries you’ve manufactured for them.

If the Hawks players had thought like some of you, they would have never made that run for a successful playoffs run, or taken Boston to 7 gms. I CERTAINLY HOPE NONE OF YOU APPLY THE SAME NEGATIVE, DEFEATIST APPROACH TO YOUR PERSONAL LIVES.

By Samuel

October 24, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

Ando,

Id rather bet on the real thing. You’re the one who was sooo confident that the Hawks wouldn’t make the playoffs. Has the pre-season scared you. $100 or more on the real thing(The Hawks making the playoffs). Put your money where your mouth is.

I.MUS,

What do you mean by developed. You guys won’t give him credit for it anyway. How many different NBA coaches has Josh, Al, Marvin and Acie played for? Thought so. Al was the best Rookie in the league last year and Josh is arguably the best shot blocker in the game. Who developed them?

Stop the Hate!!

By The Truth

October 24, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

I.MUS and Eric S.

About Woody: Amen

By ILL-Logical

October 24, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

An opposing team’s scout sizes up the Hawks

Expectations have risen by making the playoffs and having a great showing against Boston. Yet they only won 37 games last year. Keeping things in perspective, they’ve got to find a way to improve, because winning 37 is not going to make the playoffs in the improved East.

Who is their lead player? Joe Johnson tends to not take the last shot as much as you’d expect from a franchise player. You can tell a lot about him from his decision to go to a losing team by leaving a team that could’ve paid him good money and helped him win a championship. He hasn’t done much in recent years to change that opinion. I’ve watched them play a lot, and he’s a talented kid. But I’m not a fan. He’s a good third player on a contending team. But he’s not the guy you build around.

Al Horford was great. He would have been my vote for Rookie of the Year. Last year you did what you could to keep him off the boards. This year people have seen him, and they’re not going to let him get as many free looks. People know he can shoot mid-range jump shots. He’s a little jerky in his stroke, but he can make them. I think he’s a Buck Williams-type guy in a lot of ways. Every time I’ve seen Horford, he has played hard the whole game. When he took out T.J. Ford on that layup [after which Ford missed 24 games with neck and back injuries], he didn’t do it maliciously, but he made a hard foul. Some of his histrionics you can do without, like when he pounds his chest and waves his arms too much after he makes a play early. But that’s not bad for this team because they don’t have a lot of guys with that intensity.

For them ever to be a championship team — not just a playoff team — Horford needs to play the 4, and they find a 5 who can really play up front alongside him. You shift Josh Smith to small forward and bring Marvin Williams off the bench. But until they go in that direction, they’ll be the best 6-foot-8 team in the league with too many forwards on the roster.

When Smith played well last year, it was mainly because he quit shooting threes. He seemed to say, OK, I’m going to have a great mismatch at the 4, I’m going to just run the floor and let the game come to me. He can be a dominant player who can change the game, and when he’s focused he is very good and a tough matchup. But he also goes through games where he seems lost, and if he makes a couple of mistakes and coach Mike Woodson starts yelling at him, then he’s gone. The whole key to whether they’re a 35- or 45-win team depends on him being able to figure it out every night. We see him and his team get keyed up to play Detroit or Boston, but they don’t get up against teams like Charlotte. Smith can have a big influence on his team by not settling for jumpers and instead becoming more of an attacker.

Mike Bibby has issues: Can he stay injury-free, be consistent and also be committed to playing defense like Woodson wants him to play? As a defender, he plays the passing lanes. But Woodson wants his players to be solid defenders rather than steals defenders, and the coach knows it all starts with the point guard. Bibby enjoys having the ball in his hands, yet sometimes I think he shoots the ball a little quickly. Bibby knows his contract is coming up [he’s a free agent after the season], so he’ll want to have a good year and get some points up.

Backup point guard is another issue. Acie Law didn’t produce like they would want as a high draft pick last season. But there were games where he did enough. He beat his man shooting off the dribble, he was good in all kinds of pick-and-roll situations, he got into the paint and he had late-game ability. But Woodson is more of a half-court guy who likes to call every play, and that works against Law, who is a good but not great shooter from the three-point line.

Marvin Williams improved his jump shot last year and became more of a threat. He needs to use his size to post up small forwards more often and not just be a tall, big body on the perimeter.

Flip Murray is going to be an open-court guy who will put the ball on the floor, but if he has to be backup point or run plays, then he’s not as good. There’s a reason he’s played for so many different teams.

I don’t think they get any value from Maurice Evans coming off the bench. He isn’t a tough-minded kid, which is why he’s bounced around. He was a starter for a winning team last year [in Orlando], but I wonder if he has the makeup to go from starter to backup. I wonder if they might be better bringing Williams off the bench where he can play both forward spots. Then they won’t miss Josh Childress as much.

The problem with losing Childress is that they have a lot of guys who need the ball. He didn’t. He just played. He was a stable personality and he could be effective playing without the ball.

I’m a Woodson fan. But he gets too frustrated at times, and it’s too long a year with too many possessions in each game — especially with all of his young players — for him to be on them all the time. That can wear on a team. The main thing is that he has a great up-and-down team, but he’s so conscious of them not turning the ball over and making sure the right guy gets the right shot that he calls plays like a half-court team. If they played looser, they might turn it over once or twice more, but their guys would stay more focused and be more involved at both ends of the court.

But look at the other side of it: They’re not a very good team yet he had them in most games last year and gave them chances to be successful. He’s a good defensive coach who tries to get the guys to respect the game, and when they don’t, he gets frustrated. I’d really like to see him coaching a veteran team.

If you know GM Rick Sund and you look at Bibby’s [$14.5 million] contract, I think you’ll see a trade from them as the year goes on. I bet they try to trade for an impact player, probably to get either a point guard or center. I think they have to make a trade in order to get back to the playoffs.

By Samuel

October 24, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Eric,

ZaZa said himself that he was not into it mentally. He was pouting because he was beat out by Horford. He has now accepted the fact that Horford is better but he can still be a great asset to the team.

Acie was given an opportunity but was injured. The Hawks went out and got Bibby, made the playoffs and played a good series against the eventual World Champs.

Solo had talent but needed to gain weight. He has done just that and he now can contribute.

I think Woody did as much as any other coach with what he had to work with.

You guys name me some great coaches and I can find all kind of fault with them when they don’t have the players. Case in point: Doc Rivers, Pat Riley, Larry Brown. Bottom line, everybody is 0-0. Let’s let the season play out and we’ll see.

By Blast

October 24, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

Lets stop hating on Woody, at least for now. A regular season game has not even been played yet! Lets wait till a quarter way into the season, say…January, then y’all can hate!

Rather, lets get excited for our ‘brand new’ revamped ballclub, lets fill up the Highlight factory every home game, and make it a scary place for visiting teams to play at.

Samuel is right. Woody did develop Marvin, Josh, Al and even now, Acie, but If the Hawks have a losing record come January, then Woody should be canned.

By HB Ando

October 24, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

Sam, the “real” thing is betting on your own performance, not an outcome you have no control over. And I’ll stick to my point that you didn’t have a word to say, or any interest in the wager, until AFTER the Wiz found out that Arenas would be out for several more months, and AFTER Haywood was lost for the season, and AFTER the Hawks had a solid showing in the pre-season.

So don’t be a Johnny-come-lately with the BIG wager. You got $50 in. If you were legit you’d stand behind you’re performance in the fantasy league YOU set up, and match the $50.

Where were you over the last month, posting on a regular basis, and completely ignoring the open wager that the Hawks wouldn’t make the playoffs?

Nowhere to be found, that’s where.

Real believers jumped in on faith (Joe kind of squeezed in the middle, but if Joe believes, that breeds confidence).

So, Sam, quit acting like you were behind the Hawks all the way, take the $50 in action, and continue to be the bandwagon jumper that you’ve proven yourself to be.

And man up on the fantasy action. You know I’ll trounce your sad a*, so you’re going to make a lame excuse about “betting on the real thing”?

Weak…….

By bigeasy830

October 24, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

At least 45 wins and 5th or 6th seed

By Mike is back

October 24, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

I say the Hawks will go 48 – 34. Get ready for the MOFLIP Shoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Hawks08

October 24, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t matter to me how many wins they have as long as they get back to the playoffs and build on their success from last season

By Lacsho

October 24, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Hmmm 13 more wins give us 50. We blew 15 games or more easily last year… The east has gotten better, yet the Hawks has vastly improved, and we finally have depth… *With that said, I’m going with the 50 !!!! *

What else would you expect me to say…

You See me, and I see you

HI Haters

Buckeyes 4 Life

By Don!

October 24, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

Hmmm …

42-40. Seventh in the East.

Win in the first round, and either through injury or blown officiating call, eliminated in the second by the Cavs.

That’s my two cents.

Later,

Don!

By Samuel

October 24, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

WOW,

Ando backtracking again. It really looks like you’re getting scared of them Big Bad Hawks. What yall think?

You know I have been the biggest Woody and Hawks supporter during this last summer. I said I wasn’t really a betting man but I would do it Just To Shut Your As$ Up. This Fantasy League was not even mentioned. If you’re scared just say so. Everybody can see it, just admitt it and I’ll leave it alone.

The hell with Arenas. He will have no bearing on wheather or not the Hawks make the playoffs. Matter of fact, I assumed that he would come back and the Wizs would make it. So don’t use that as an excuse.

Are you sure it isn’t the fact that your teams pegged to knock the Hawks out (NJ, Chicago,, Mil and Mia) went a combined 7-19 during the preseason?

Put Up or Sut The hel_ Up!!

By cp

October 24, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

Eric S. ou pretty much summed up my feelings about Woody.

By **NATIVE SON**

October 24, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

To all: For the past two years I’ve been calling 40 plus wins. It was certainly attainable, but they self combusted about 8 times, or so. That being said, with the veteran leadership they have now, those late game lapses may be a distant memory. So 5 more games to the 45 some predict, is highly conceivable. It seems the Hawks believe it, and to borrow a cliche’, ” if you can believe it, then you can acheive it. Peace, from the Native.

By darrell starks

October 24, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

I MUST NO DISRASPECT BUT if your question me on my bla bla then YOUR WRONG ME PERSONALLY i FEEL THAT THE HAWKS SHOULD go big and LET harford GO to his natural POSITION this team would be better on defense plus HAVE A STRONGER BENCH. GO HAWKS

By darrell starks

October 24, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

STARTING FIVE BIBBY, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, ZAZA BENCH THE LAW, MURRAY, EVANS, MARVIN, SALOMON THIS TEAM WILL BE STRONGER ON DEFENSE AND HAVE A STRONGER BENCH. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 24, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

“Defensive coach” is just a code word for coaches who can’t do X’s and O’s and get by on being able to motivate their players to hustle, resulting in better defense. Unfortunately for Woody it’s not like this team regularly out-hustles opponents either. Nah, Woody’s just not that great of a coach, straight up.

By Astro Joe

October 24, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Ando, no thanks, I’ll stick with the original arrangement. But thanks for the offer.

By Sautee

October 24, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

MannyT

How about ‘splainin’ to Sam about the WUF?

It’s as valid a theory about our coach as any. I certainly took it into account in my prediction.

By ray

October 24, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

I don’t do the win-loss predictions. I don’t bet. But I have all kinds of fun watching the guys who do….

On Woody: call it what you will, and call him what you will. But with every column, every blog article, every captured quote…all signs point to him being the major factor (except for possible injuries) that will determine how successful this team is. Some said he didn’t have the players. He now says he does. Some say it’s all about the players. Well there they are. Put up or shut up time. I’ll be happy to give Woody credit if we win 50 games. I’d give him credit if we win 45. I’d be hard-pressed, but still slightly, grudgingly willing if we won 42. Maybe. Or I might call it organic growth (with additives). Of course, Samuel will cuss me for a son of a goat if I do that…

A point on individual achievements

I’d like to see JJ and Josh Smith both make the all-star team this year. But I’ll take more wins and better playoff position over Josh Smith making the all-star team. These things are tricky. Look at JJ’s accomplishments when he made the all-star team. He barely got the vote, and we’ve called him our best player since he landed here.

Every year, there are guys who should probably be named all-stars…who just get snubbed. What I want to see with Josh is more self control, better decision-making, embracing of role, developing leadership skills, and budding veteran savvy. An all-star nod? Well, I guess you’d demand that or use that as a measurement of success if you didn’t want him signed in the first place (or for the money he got). But then, that would mean you don’t care about winning….

Josh can’t be focused on being an all-star. Neither can JJ. If any player does this, then they only hurt their team. Each player has to concentrate on doing whatever it is that they do, that best helps the team. The performances both guys put in last year helped the team tremendously. There can be no doubt of this. Take either away, and there’s a whole different thing going on (not that we were winning a ton of games, but you get the point).

Same could be said of Marvin. Sure, I’d like him to average close to 20 a game. But what if just playing a more suffocating defense and grabbing 2 more rebounds a game is what helps us win night to night? I’ll take that instead.

Same goes for Bibby: He doesn’t have to get us 20 points a night either. Or 15 assists. Better defense, a better shooting percentage, a few more dimes a game. Getting the other guys into their comfort zone and flow….that’s what matters most.

Some things never cease to amaze me. How can a person continue to pi$$ and moan about Josh Smith needing to make the all-star team and personally ensure that we win 40-something games this season just because he got re-signed for roughly $11.6 million per year? Going by that insanely flawed “concept” one must then also demand that Bibby and his $15.5 million a year self needs to not only make the all-star team, but lead us to more than 50 wins all by himself. Within the same wheedling breath about Josh, would come (and has come) the notion that we need to not only keep, but re-sign a far more expensive guy who has never made the all-star team…and probably never will…stunning.

By rms

October 24, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

sorry hawks fan. But they will struggle starting the season because they cannot win on the road and their schedule happens to start them on the road. Woodson, for some strange reason still desires to play a consistent half-court game despite the fact and uptempo game plays more to his teams stengths and may secure him a longer deal. Come playoff time, the game will slow down and you will have to play a half court game, but the damage will be done already. Woodson would be fired for wasting talent on a roster for a few years and the “rebuilding process begins again”. HOOOOHUMMMMMMM!!! In a perfect world, the hawks win the East, beat Boston in the Conf Finals in 6, and beat the Lakers for the Finals in Game 7 with a last second 3. Woodson gets an extension and Sekou gets a promotion and wins the lottery on the same day! How u luv that!!

By ray

October 24, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Najeh, nice one….heh heh heh.

Doc, I knew you were getting spoofed. Couldn’t have been more obvious. Someone is bored…

Ariose, the link you provided on the last blog was off the chain. I’m still buzzin’ off of Mo’s reverse. One thing I noticed: how smooth Acie’s game has become, just like when he was at A&M. Everything looks smoother, his handle, his shooting stroke, all of it. And he looks great out there next to Flip in the backcourt.

By ray

October 24, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Damn, MannyT. Tell it like it is, brothaaaaa…

By Samuel

October 24, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Doc,

Is that what you call betting long?. He’s probably got bets on blogs all over Nation on the Hawks making the playoffs for that cushion.

By majortee

October 24, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

the hawks will win 40-48 games this year. they finally have players who can come off the bench and score point to help maintain the lead, or close the gap if they are behind, and most importantly, close out a game in the end if woody wants to rest the starters. the only thing that woories me is that he didn’t give some of the reserve a chance to play in the preseason. gardener is a three point shooter, i would have liked to see what he could have done in the game last night. also hunter seem like a good rle player for this team. he kinda of reminds me of ben wallace. I like the big lineup starting with the duck coming off the bench. but woody would never do it. also would have loved to see morris get more time. he has shown that he could come in and give some scoring punch off the bench.

By richbrave

October 24, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

ANDO:

You shouldn’t take candy from a baby. Samuel can’t help himself. Shame on you.

Saw the real deal tonight between the WIZARDS-CAVALIERS. 35-35 with 5:00+ to go in the half. CLEVELAND reinserts the starters including JAMES. EDDIE doesn’t. I fall asleep and wake with the second half about to begin. Score 57-39.

I watch as WASHINGTON tries to make up the ground with their only real option at center - ETAN THOMAS and their starting group. Remember my analogy regarding BIBBY in the BOSTON series.? Whew. 8:19 to go in the fourth 42-18 CAVS points in the paint. Lead up to 23. This wasn’t built by CAVS best against WIZ scrubs. It was the reverse. JAMISON with a double-double.

Saw LO WRIGHT. HAWKS made a good move, or the guy hasn’t found his niche yet. Not good, not good.

D.C. will miss HEYWOOD terribly. HAWKS will clean up in the division standings this year unless JORDAN pulls a rabbit out of the hat. He’s gonna have to do it with no viable option at center. SONGAILA and THOMAS overmatched. McGEE or PETCHEROV - not ready for prime-time.

If this season plays out the way its going, WIZ get a top ten pick in next summer’s draft. No worries HAWKS fans.

By Ariose

October 25, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

To be truthful, I honestly didn’t like Childress(or his game) until late last season.

Intangables…yes,yes, I Know. But tons of players can do that. Childress was no good if he wasn’t within five feet of the basket(honestly). Sure, he could shoot the OPEN three pointer, but this is the NBA. Tim Duncan can shoot open three pointers(no ones ever really open in the NBA). Offensively he was holding this team back. Don’t lie about it either. How many OPEN threes did childress pass up(it used to drive me nuts). Yeah, sure. He’s playing to his strengths, but there’s no room down there for him to do that. At least last season Marvin could take one dribble in and shoot the mid range but Chills couldn’t even really do that.

All he did was clog up the lane on offense(which hindered spacing for JJ,Horford, and smoove…..especially smoove b/c i’m sure none of you want him drifting to the peremeter, though I personally have confidense in his shooting ability).

Sure he stole Marvin, Al, and Smoove’s rebounds and played solid defense, but Sund was right. He was just an overpriced utility player…..and based on the pieces that sund has now given us, I trust Gearon when he said that we were probably getting back garbage if we had done a sign and trade for Childress.

We gave up one overpriced for the value player and get two guys who are just as explosive, More experienced, Better offensively, and play defense just as well or better than Childress.

One thing that i’ve noticed with the additions of these guys is SPACING. There is so much more space on the floor now. With Acie, Marvin, Mo, and Flip all standing beyond the arc there has been a lot more spacing. and the Hawks are using it to their advantage and finding the open man…..and unlike last season nobody(childress/Acie) is passing up wide open looks.

The additions we have now are also a lot stronger(physically) than childress was. I don’t think Childress has added any muscle since entering the leauge….that doesn’t seem like a player who wants to improve his game. How can you ask for a greater role(satrting) without putting in the work(Hitting the weights and Improving/changing your jumpshot)?

In the game against Detriot Evans had 14 pts all inside the arc……….now how many points would he have had if he connected on those seven three pointers(and he is not a jacker so he was probably open and just had a bad night)?? Can you say blowout? Let’s noe EVEN talk about Flip Murray and his modest 19pts and 9 rebounds…..and some of you mocked me when I said he was going to seriouly going to improve our team earlier in the summer…..whatever.

1) Flip and Mo were STARTERS on other teams….and could start on this one and not miss a beat if need be.

2) They both play at a high level offensively and defensively.

3) On the offensive end they can expliot you in many differnt ways and make you pay for cheating ad double-teaming another player(something childress couldn’t do).

4) Instead of demanding a greater role, they’ve actually worked hard in order to be better players so without question, they would automatically be given greater roles(they’re not in Europe right now are they?)

5) They’re cheaper AND Better

I don’t blame Childress though. He wasn’t good enough for the money he saught in the NBA so he wen’t to a lesser talented leauge in order to get the money. He knew Sund didn’t value him and got nervous. He didn’t want to be the odd man out getting dissed….I understand and can respect that. It was his choice.

Evans jumps just as high, was stronger and can rebound just as well(he’s a great offensive rebounder just like Childress was)…..once again, lets not EVEN bring Flip into the discussion…..now Horford and smoove can pad thir rebounding stats a little more so it’s all good.

Let’s be honest, would you rather have a utility player not focused on bieng greater(as evidenced by Childress’ rarely ever asserting himself to do more offensively……yet he signs a contract and goes where he’s expected to be the MAN and do just that) or players who can give you the intangables and a lot more??

~Sir Links A Lot~

By MannyT

October 25, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

doc my apologies for responding to faux doc. Didn’t sound like you, but I was actually interested in the inside view. It is rare to get an honest, inside look at most businesses. Take a peek at the financial indistry these days. It is easy to see that it is FUBAR, but no one wants to take an honest look at it. The politicans are too busy trying to get elected to do it. The Wall Streeters are too busy experiencing what the average person who fears layoffs, acquisitions, and business failure to take a realistic look backwards. I think there was so much blame to go around that no one really wants to open that can of stink because there are too many maggots for all to share.

Back to hoops.

Sautee I am not going to hang Woody out to dry yet, but I did take a poetic look at the WUF at October 24, 2008 11:55 AM.

I doubt that Samuel and I will see Woody in the same way unless he hits an extreme this season and either becomes the 2nd coming of John Wooden or Dick Vitale. At this point in the season, every NBA team should be locked on Hope and Excitement. Every team is undefeated and ready to go.

I will tell you the things that have me really excited about this season.

First—we have flexibility. Not telling Woody what to do, but he can put a variety of lineups on the court. Small ball with Al at the 5, Josh at the 4 and a variety of options for the perimeter. Big ball (in spurts) with a JJ, Marvin back court with Zaza or Solo at the 5. There are many in between options as well.

Second—Schedule. I like having December and March as our heavy home game months. We don’t have as much pressure to defend home court in November while this team is still getting used to its new parts. By the time fatigue sets in, we get a lot of home games later in the season.

Third—we’e got something to prove. Were the playoffs a fluke or can the Hawks really play with any team? I think Flip & Mo may have a little chip on their shoulders after leaving more successful teams last year. Woody and the players know that 37 wins probably doesn’t get it done this season.

Fourth—I’m in the lower level this season. I got parking settled unless I swap it for important stuff like popcorn Astro Joe—can you hear what I’m sayin! We start winning and I will start making signs, or getting them from Volman

I’ll get back to Ariose in the next post.

BWAF

By Ariose

October 25, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

Now I want to talk about some other players:

Acie Law

Acie reminds me of Jordan Farmar based on the way he seems to be developing. Farmar didn’t have a great rookie season either. He was very passive and didn’t try to do too much. If he had kept it up last season he probably wouldn’t be playing for the Lakers this year.

I think Acie will have a similar second season to Farmar. He’ll play like his old(college) self and be a lot more agressive. Hell likely make a name for himself this year.

Mike Bibby

I’ve been watching some old Bibby footage from the Kings, and i’ve noticed that he hasn’t really changed. He still gets the same amount of open looks as he did wiith the kings. He just isn’t knocking the shots down….even when it counts(Playoffs last season).

Now he’s healthy and has the sling off of his thumb…..I think he’ll be fine…..based on the articles i’ve read, he’s not a preseason guy……he’s like a car, you have to let it run for a couple of minutes to get warmed up before you drive.

If he get’s pressured just set him a screen and he’ll be fine. He’s a screen guy anyway.

I don’t beleive we’ll trade him….think about it. Mike Woodson is using him…….last season he overused him(b/c he was pretty much always injured and day-to-day). He Did shooting/conditioning drills over the summer but isn’t play too much schrimmage or pickup basketball. Which was the right move IMHO. He had to let those injuries heal.

I don’t think JJ would sign here again if he was traded regardless. Acie is not ready/hasn’t proven anything and Flip is better used as a scorer(unless he’s playing point b/c Mike Miller is the SG hehehehe…..)

Randolph Morris

I’m watching the lakers Andrew Bynum play. Also through watching Oden and Dwight over the preseason……it’s apperant we are eventually going to need a big man if we want to have any title aspirations.

Why trade a very good PG or anyone else when we have one right under our noses? He’s A legit 7’0 footer (listed at 6’ll but he’s taller than zaza IMO). He’s also very skilled offensively.

Andrew Bynum was a project for the Lakers…..I know woody isn’t really tolerant of that sort of thing but good playes don’t come out of the womb playing like that.

Sekou said he has a very polished offensive game…..He Probably needs to get a tad quicker and also work on his footwork/defense. But He was good on previous levels and he’s only 22. He can be molded.

We need to push him hard and really make it an issue to get him all the help necessary…….none of our young guys are finished products, he just needs the oppourtunity. Andrew Bynum had Kareem Toutoring him…….Morris needs to spend a lot of time with our Big Man coach and also Mike Woodsen to help out with his defense. I really think he could be that missing piece we need……we just have to cultivae it…….dust off the dirt and let the dimond shine through….besides, we now have enough shooters….

More Childress

Keeping Childress AND having FlipMo would have been a problem……..not enough minutes for everybody. Especially if Acie is going to log all of the backup minutes at the PG spot. Childress was ALREADY unhappy with his 6th man role, having Evans and Flip would have caused locker room tension…..especially since both Flip and Mo are better than him at this stage in their careers…….well, Flip has always been better lol.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Volman

October 25, 2008 1:42 AM | Link to this

Manny T, I hope you guys won’t forget me since I’ll be in the 303 seats this year!

Anytime you want a sign, you’ve got one!! :)

I’m going to say this team hits 41 wins this year. I would like to see more, but I’m going with 41.

Let’s go Hawks!

By MannyT

October 25, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this

Ariose Don’t take it personally, but this is not hard to pick apart. I’ll leave the not liking Chills personally for others to handle. I don’t really know the guy well enough to work that angle. Maybe you do. I do guess that I’d like him if I knew him, but it’s a guess.

I’ll give you a few points before I toss your post into the blast furnace of truth. Flip and Mo are cheaper. They also have more offensive variety than Chills.

You say tons of players can do what Chills did…bring the list. Start with double figure points basically on hustle, with no plays called for them. Next guard all perimeter positions. Next lead team in FG%. Most folks gravitate toward people who have a particular strength. I have a soft spot for the well rounded.

Outside shooting threat was never his game. Funny that you say he clogged up the middle on offense. He usually played on the perimeter and drove because his shot wasn’t great. He did hit the boards. In your view, that muscular frame of his ripped boards from those weak guys Smith & Horford. riiiight

I won’t make major arguments about how guys play in the fake8. You can bounce that around with those that care about preseason for more than conditioning and timing.

Regarding the spacing argument—was it Chills role to be the shooter when he was in the game? Evans offensive talent is the 3 ball. Flip is a scorer. It is fair to say that Sund wanted scorers and he brought them in. It is a false point to say Chills wasn’t a scorer. That’s not the role he played here or will be expected to play with Olympiacos. Yet, Chills did outscore both Murray and Evans last season.

On the starter deal, there were only 4 players on the Hawks who never started a game last season, Chills, Salim, Solo, Shelden & Jeremy Richardson. I’m sure you are ready to make a case for Chills being the 12th best player on the squad all of last year because he didn’t start. Think about how many games he finished…particularly the close ones when Marvin was on the bench.

As for the Chills and money thing, recall that he was offered MLE late in the game. Had he received that offer earlier, he would likely be a Hawk. The money argument is weak if you admit to the sequence of events. Check the October 24, 2008 5:22 PM post.

You say Evans is as good an offensive rebounder. Check your facts. Last season Evans had 92 offensive rebounds in 1721 minutes of playing time. That comes out to an offensive rebound every 18.7 minutes. Chills had 174 offensive rebounds in 2274 minutes. That comes out to an offensive rebound every 13.1 minutes. Look at scoring. It’s easy to say Chills had a higher scoring average, but take a closer look. Without a jumpshot, Chills got 275 free throw attempts. Evans got 83. Chills also had more assists (117 to 81). He simply played a different role for the Hawks than Evans will.

I could easily see Chills on the court with Evans and/or Murray. If handled properly, I do not believe this was a Chills OR other vets decision. It could have been Chills AND other vets. His game works with lots of player types. That was his unique contribution.

I know you guys enjoy getting blog blasted by me, but I’ll pull way back on the Chills stuff once the season starts. I’m trying to look forward. I have no problem with Evans or Murray. Many of you are doing what people do at work…trying to smack down the folks that have left. If you expect hoops credibility, I’d suggest you go back to picking on guys that contributed less to the team.

I’ll jump ahead for those that want to pick on Chills in the Euroleague. Not that I ever said it was better basketball, but it gives you guys something to feed on.

Just remember—feeble arguments intimidate losers—that’s FAIL

What’s that smell? A well used furnace and some ashes where a Chills post used to reside ;-)

I think I’m almost ready for regular season blogging. Who’s next?

BWAF

By Ariose

October 25, 2008 2:11 AM | Link to this

ray, Yeah That jam was an instant classic. Acie is going to turn a lot of heads around the leauge this year.

Did you see J-Smoove’s block of the night?

Yeah, that’s one part of his game that doen’t need a tune-up lol.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By MannyT

October 25, 2008 2:32 AM | Link to this

If I recall, Chills was concerned that he was never seen as someone who would get an opportunity to start here. If you refer back to who did start last season, I think it is a reasonable concern.

Woody saw him as a 6th man and would not take him out of that role for any reason. If you can start Mario twice, you should be able to find a start or two for Chills.

Ariose Would it be fair of me to say your only contribution here is as a Salim supporter? I think not. Why should Chills accept the pigeon hole?

Murray is 29, Evans will be 30 in 2 weeks, and Chills is 25. Each plays a different role. You can say that Evans has always been better, but I’d say that Chills is a better SF than Murray. He’s a better PG than Evans. You can deny the flexibility all you want. However, this is where the argument loops back. I am fine with both Evans & Murray, but if they are sooo much better than Chills, why would they come here to play for far less than the MLE?

hmmm? All those titles we have? Playoff experience? Money?

If they were typical pro athletes, they would have a place here to meet the ladies during the offseason and play elsewhere.

Chills was limited by restricted free agency. Neither Evans nor Murray was.

BWAF

By Ariose

October 25, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this

Manny, Unlike some people on this blog I know when i’ve been smacked down and need to conceed defeat. I was wrong and you defenetly proved your point.

Though I don’t hate Chills and am not playing that angle at all. He took the Greece offer instead of ours…….Smith could have done the same thing if he wanted too. I do beleive our offense will run a lot smoother w/o childress in the lineup.

But, a shooter next to childress would have greatly improved our chances this year FlipMoChill.

…as far as the rebounding thing goes……look who evans played next too. First it was Odom and Bynum who were both grabbing at least 10boards apice, then it was Howaard who was snagging 22 boards per. My point wasn’t to bash Childress, it was simply to prove that our additions are more than capable of doing the same thing.

I was just being honest. Up until late last season when I could really tell how much better it was to have Childress on the floor defensively instead of Marvin, I never really cared for his game.

Also, childress created that role for himslf. If someone is posting up on the block and they pass you the ball and you’re wide open, but you pass it up?? By passing you are forcing the issue offensively instead of taking what the defense is giving you. He’s a wing player, wings shoot the ball…..especially when they’re open. His role was what it was because of his limitations, not because of a selfish or non-understanding coach(though I can’t beleive I just said that).

Look how many oppourtunities DET gave Evans to hit that three ball over and over again(and not just now,when Orlando played DET in the playoffs they left him open and be routinely burned them….until they started paying him attention). The same thing happend to childress. He just ingored the wide open shot and drove to the basket…..which is fine because he knows thats not his strong suit. But for him to say he’s been asked to fill that role is BS……he could easily be a starter if he fixed his mechanics…..there’s no shame in it. Tons of players have to do it all the time(Parker). But he can’t start with JJ because his man would double all day…..no spacing. If your teammate is getting doubled and he kicks it to you it’s your duty to make the opposition pay regardless of what niche/role you have carved out for yourself.

…..and my presumptions about Murray and Evans have nothing to do with this preseason. I’ve been watching them play for years so I know what they can do.

Also do you really think sund would have kept Childress for 5mill a year while having Evans and Flip on the Roster? I think his “Intangebles” would be overshadowed and sund wuld look for a reasonable deal……in fact he was, it just never materialized.

And Manny, You KNOW woodson doesn’t manage minutes well……I don’t even want to think about him having to deal with Dividing up the FlipMo/Chill minutes.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

October 25, 2008 3:07 AM | Link to this

Manny, true but they were both also playing for top-tier teams.

In Murray’s case, Saunders was an idiot(seriously) and didn’t give him any burn. Dumars did him a favor by getting him outta there. Indiana is currently rebulding and have absolutely no chance of making any noise this season. He may or may not have been gettng courted by other teams(it was never stated) but he did say that he like our up-tempo style. He also staed that he talked with woodson before signing and Woddy assured that there was a contributing role for him on this team.

You know how the Evans thing went down wit Golden State, but I do know that he played well bot both LA and Orlando last season.

I too, also think it was outrageous for Mario to start in place of childress. But if you think about it, it was actually a good idea because without him on the bench we wouldn’t have had one lol.

I Will say that just because someone comes off of the bench, it really doesn’t have any barring on their worth. A stanford guy getting 29min a game(who plays at the end of games) should be so sensitive(honestly). Ginobili, Stackhous, Ben Gordon and tons of other good playes come off of the bench. Though, I really don’t think that was Childress’ issue. He just wanted the process over fast……he also had no problem being traded though. I really think he wanted to leave.

Manny, Way to bash your own organization(note to self: if manny was hawks GM he’d buy all of our good players condos in the ATL and trade tme to more popular teams) ;-)…..I’m just happy their here. It’s a bonus, they get tons of playing time and all of those ladies can come to the games and cheer them on hehehe……

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 25, 2008 3:18 AM | Link to this

“I think his “Intangebles” would be overshadowed and sund wuld look for a reasonable deal……in fact he was, it just never materialized.”

Sund gets paid those big bucks to make those reasonable deals materialize. When he can’t do so, it is a failure, at least in my opinion.

Regardless of whether or not the FlipMo Squad is better than Chills, there’s no excuse for the way the Hawks handled the situation in the offseason. Either they should have offered him a contract at the very beginning and gotten him to sign or they should have worked out a sign-and-trade with someone else. Letting him walk is a mistake of historical proportions — literally, because as far as I know nobody has ever lost a guy in his restricted free agent year for zero compensation.

By ant banks

October 25, 2008 3:22 AM | Link to this

larry brown, bobby knight, and woody’s coaching system is garbage! other than larry’s detroit team, which won one championship and larry’s stop in philly, what has that system produced in the past 10 yrs?

byron scott, popovich, phil jackson, pat riley (lakers/new york teams), dantoni, jerry sloan. these coaches style/philosophy is consistenly at the top of the league, not the style of knight, brown, woodson their style doesn’t work in ‘08

By Ariose

October 25, 2008 3:26 AM | Link to this

Manny, it looks like you PASS(Prognostications Above Stupid Standards)

But i’m Going to FAIL on poupose because it’s more fun

CoughCoughChildressSucksCough……..man can I get a cough drop please ;-)

Honestly though, I respect his game and appreciate everything he’s done for us. It was sad to see him go but this is a business and I like what we have right now. His decesion worked out for both parties so its all good. I hope we can get some value out of his rights.

Chills and Speedy for MIKE Miller!!!!!

I moved into chills’ old apartment…..apparently some of his girls were still staying there. He said they came with the house. Though, he said he much prefers the in-house Maid in greece ;-). I told him i’ll take good care of them Hehehehe!!!

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

October 25, 2008 3:32 AM | Link to this

Poop, yup. I used to harp on those facts a lot but whats done is done…….lets just get Mike Miller and call it a day hehehe….

Sir Links A Lot

By MannyT

October 25, 2008 3:37 AM | Link to this

If MannyT were the GM, all that honey that attracts the pro flies would be used to lure free agents instead of real estate agents securing 2nd homes!

When Flip was in Indy, he got time b/c your boy Tinsley was busy showing out In Da Club.

I am glad that both are here. They will contribute. I think they fit Woody so he has less adapting to do. That’s one reason why he will mess up fewer games. With vets, if they change the play on the fly, it might work. With young uns they actually tried to run his bad plays. Note our success after time outs. He will have to think more about playing time and rotations which might be tricky.

I don’t think Chills wanted to leave. I think he got comfortable with the idea that other folks saw something in him that Sund & Woody did not while he was on his journey to find an offer.

I’d say it’s like a guy who has a crappy girlfriend, but he’s really faithful. If she kicks him to the curb for a week or two and he goes out. Then he learns that most women treat him better than his old girl. When she says come back, he says catch no thanks.

However, if she had treated him better, he would have never left.

I’ll pull an Ando here and say Chills would benefit from playing with a big that has shooting range. Samuel might call it a need for a Euro. Gee, where did Chills go? hmmm

Sure Chills has room to improve his game. That shot doesn’t have to get pretty, just more effective. Check history file for Magic Johnson 3 pt shot put.

BWAF

By MannyT

October 25, 2008 3:55 AM | Link to this

If I were evil, I’d have one former Arizona Wildcat passing you cough drops. I hear he’s got some free time.

The T’wolves need Miller to open up space for their undersized bigs to operate. Now if you want Marbury, the Knicks might take an oft injured PG and a guy that is stashed away in Greece. Otherwise, think draft day deal to move up in June. Our pick plus Chills for a better pick.

Ariose Now that Chills makes big money, I’m sure he can get teased by EuroSam if he ever decides to import some of those Amerobabes for the weekend ;-)

I’m glad there is no grade in blogging, so I can live with PASS/FAIL! It’s all good.

Najeh If more guys head to Europe, Sund will be the GM who let the cat out of the bag. He will be a historical footnote for hard bargaining the NBA into deals with the Euros. Then what will others say about their boy Rick?

Ant Both styles work, just some are suited for 1908 instead of 2008! I hope Woody takes the time machine forward.

I’m done for the night.

BWAF

By Nate ArchiBALL

October 25, 2008 6:53 AM | Link to this

I predict the Hawks will get 40 to 45 wins. How far they go this season will depend on Woody’s coaching.

Things I like — Pick up of Flip and Evans.

Things I question — Not signing Childress.

Things I would like to see — M Williams coming off the bench. Acie learning to shoot a teardrop (note to Acie - they block layups in this league)

Unknowns: Woody’s coaching, The play of ZaZa, Solo and Morris in the middle. It’s not the offense but how much Defense will we get out of those guys.

.GO HAWKS!

By used cars

October 25, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

I like 47 wins…If Smith takes less 3s and Williams makes a few…The bench if used, will be much more productive…Evans might not be the player Childress is, but I think he can be a better fit for us, giving us perimeter offense from the bench…We should be a lot better than last year, that’s what happens when a very young team matures…That being said, if Woodson comes out and tightens up with a slow start, and goes back to his old ways of not using the bench and putting people in the doghouse, he needs to go…

By richbrave

October 25, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Well since we’re in the predictor mode, I say the HAWKS are better by the improved margin against their division rivals the WIZARDS - at the very least. And with WOODEN-one coaching true to form, I still see a three game improvement otherwise. So 45 is my number. Now remember the rest of the league and division get to play LOS WIZARDOS also. So this doesn’t necessarily mean improvement in the standings. That’s another matter altogether.

By The Truth

October 25, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

I have already given my prediction, so I won’t belabor the point. I will add comments from reading Sekou article: http://www.ajc.com/hawks/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/10/24/hawks_nbainsider.html I am disappointed that Woody did not craved out a role for Morris in his rotation. It seems he will just be a reserve player only used in case of injury. The very limited time Morris played in pre-season he showed some offensive potential. I’m puzzled as to why he didn’t fully exploit his talents in pre-season to determined a place for him in his rotation. Some may point out he plays a little laid-back, but if he had come to the Hawks with the full package, he never would have been cut by the Knicks in the first place. This is another example of Woody’s coaching style. I predict that if our Big Guys get injuried (Al,ZaZa,SoLo) or get in fouls trouble, Woody will be force to play Morris. If he does not perform Woody is likely to play politices to the media and blame him. He will show no responsibility for Morris preparation. He will just say, “you have to be ready”. I phased this because he has made these same quotes before. My prediction of Woody is based on his past behaviors. I hope I’m wrong. But since we are talking about predictions, this is food for thought. Woody like any coach leaves tea-leafs behind. All you have to do is read them and you can size the coach up.

By Hoops

October 25, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

Prediction for ‘09

The Hawks won 37 in ‘08. They added Mo & Flip while loosing Chill. That’s plus 1 in players that can play. Acie has grown up, while Marvin has bulked up & added a three game. Zaza has gotten serious, Solo has decided to become a player, the East has improved, but not enough to overcome the improved Hawks. Woody has grown in his trust for his team. So I predict that the Hawks will win 42 in ‘09. That’s a 5 game improvement with a power forward playing the 5 man position. That’s pretty good. If the chemistry is really good this year, they may win 45. That would be huge and would probably get them to the second or third round of the playoffs because of easier early round match ups in the playoffs. The Hawks will make the Eastern Conference Finals in 2009-10 without Bibby because Law will be ready to take over. That will allow them to sign a solid 5 man next summer. It’s gonna happen!!!

By Ken Strickland

October 25, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

I don’t think it’s a secret that I’m not a MWoodson fan. However, I place just as much blame on the SAASG, because Woodson didn’t rehire himself. Knowing they have a young developing team, why resign a HC that’s proven he has no inclination or ability to effectively develop young players. Why sign a FA like RMorris knowing he needs to be developed to be a really productive player?

The most productive move the Hawks can make this season won’t involve a trade. It will involve the replacement of Woodson by one of his assistants, like Larry Drew. Sometimes the best HC’s are former NBA players that didn’t come into the league as top draft picks and had to work hard and develop into an effective NBA player.

That often helps them better understand how much todays young players need patience and development. Also, since they weren’t talented enough to control or take over gms at any particular time, they understand and appreciate the team concept a lot better. Larry Drew’s career and style of NBA play was completely opposite that of Woodson and it is perfectly in tune with what the Hawks need most.

The current Hawks aren’t likely to become an outstanding DEF team, like the Spurs or Pistons. However, they have the ability to be much better OFF. Their DEF ability is good enough to take them far into the playoffs if they had a more imaginative, versatile, flexible Phoenix style uptempo OFF.

By ant banks

October 25, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

so ken tell us how you really feel about woody and please don’t hold anything back.

i am williing to wait until the end of november before i say off with his head. woody has always said that he needed to have vets, well he has them now.

ken while his coaching record is horrible you have to cut the man slack. his first 3 yrs what did he have? a main player died, this could ruin any team and the rest of the time he had players with less than 3yrs experience.

now with a team of vets, now i would judge his ability to coach. in one regard i respect woody for takin’ this mess to begin with. phil jackson or pat riley never, never would have taken this job. they always took ready made teams.

i am not a woody lover either, but dam dude just now have somethin’ to work wit’.

By The Truth

October 25, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Ken Strickland Just just to reinforced your point; Here is Detroit Piston Head Coach, Michael Curry’s Bio:

Not drafted by an NBA franchise; October 7, 1993: Signed as a free agent by Philadelphia; December 29, 1993: Waived by Philadelphia; January 12, 1996: Signed by Washington to a 10-day contract; January 31, 1996: Signed by Detroit to two consecutive 10-day contracts; February 22, 1996: Signed by Detroit for the remainder of the season; July 30, 1997: Signed as a free agent by Milwaukee; August 2, 1999: Signed as a free agent by Detroit; August 28, 2003: Traded by Detroit to Toronto for Lindsey Hunter.

For GM Joe Dumars to give the keys to this guy, speaks volume about this franchise. Given the fact that this franchise has been very successful over the years winning 3 titles with a very strong fan base. Joe Dumars is the staple of this franchise. He has built his coaching staff and players based on toughness, hardworking, relentlessness and team-focus. This really has been the ingredients for the Piston success. So he knows something about how to pick a coach. Maybe we should take note, pick within and turn our keys over to Larry Drew. Why do Management think the answer is always an import?

By I.MUS WRITE

October 25, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

MannyT- Come on dude….. we all know what happened with the negotiations. The Hawks offered him what was fair-The MLE-

Do you honestly think he was worth more than that? If u do then why was’nt there one other team trying to sign him….

I think he did the right thing by going Greece because he woulda never got that type money here.

1.To slow to shake his man off the dribble 2. To weak to post smaller guards 3. Hard to get his shot off while being defended (release point) 4. Average Defense. Im sorry dude but that screams MLE, not 7 million a year. 7 million for a so called glue guy- Im glad you’re not our GM

Take off your rose colored glasses, my man. Samuel- When I say develope, I mean teaching. Go back and read your post. U mentioned Acie,josh,Marvin,Horford

I dont see where he did such a wonderful job……think about it, Acie was’nt as good as advertised last year partially because of injuries but mostly because of Woody- The guy all but said he lost his confidence because of the coach.

AL was a beast when he got here, The jury is still out on Marvin and Smoove has been in the league for 5 years -I think he got better inspite of the coachin not because of it…… That might explain why he’s in Houston every summer.

Bottom line is I would take Flip/Mo over Chills 9 times out of ten.

By I.MUS WRITE

October 25, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

D.Starks…… I was’nt trying to offend you or anything. I just said I couldnt understand what u wrote.

Im jumping off the Woody train, I just hope he’s improved from last year for the sake of the team.

Manny -since you are in luv with Chillz game are you gonna start making predictions and dumping on the team like ol Ando

By MannyT

October 25, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Most coaches start with a bad or rebuilding team. Only a lucky few get the keys to a good team on their first go round.

When Byron Scott got the Nets job, it was not a prime one. They had won 31 games the year before.

Looking at this franchise, when it was doing well, we hired experienced guys like Lenny Wilkens. When the franchise struggled, we gave first timers like Lon Kruger and Terry Stotts an opportunity.

Very good coaches take what they have and make it better.

Average coaches need the right players for the system they know with little or no deviation.

Bad coaches just lose.

BWAF

By Ariose

October 25, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Manny, Dawg……that hurt lol….I was going to let you borrow chills’ old hirstylist who used to blowdry that fro’ after he took a shower but now…..i’m not so sure hehehe.

EuroSam won’t have to worry about that. Those Greek babes are HOT!!!! Sam you’re missing out buddy Heh.

One more point about Chills’:

I was one of the biggest management haters after the debacle with chills. But after reading what childress had to say recently, he doesn’t plan on coming back until either his rights are expired or we’ve traded them.

I’m sure he wanted to stay, but after the Hawks took so long and after he was courted by other teams…..things changed. Like I said, I think we’re better off now anyway(From a coaching standpoint at least, because like you said, woody doesn’t have that flexability anymore and has to manage more now.)

The proof will be in the pudding though……and I think it’s going to taste delicious lol.

Jeff Van Gundy said something interesting last night during the Cavs-Wizards game:

“Intangables? I’ve had tons of players on my roster with intangables. I want a player WITH tangables…..now LeBron, THAT guy has tangbles.”

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

October 25, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Slamonline Speedy Claxton interview

~Sir Links A Lot~

By ant banks

October 25, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

ariose thanks for that article. was it a recent article? cause it said nothin’ about his current hammy.

By Peter

October 25, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

They would have to play like they did against the Celtics in the Playoffs to get to 50 wins. AND THEY MUST WIN ON THE ROAD

By Hawksville Resident

October 25, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

42 and 40. 8th seed but this time first round upset of the Boston Celtics! Go hawks!

By Ariose

October 25, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Ant, yeah it’s recent it came out a couple of days ago……we’ll see how it all works out for him.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ken Strickland

October 25, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

ANT BANKS-my problems with Woodson started last yr. I just got so dam sick and tired of his constant complaints about the teams shortcomings or what we didn’t have rether than focusing on, and developing, what he did have. It was soooo frustrating watching him constantly trying to force a square peg into a round hole just because that square peg worked so well for him, LBrown, BKnight and Detroit in the past.

I was also frustrated by his insistence on treating the Hawks like he was running a NBA daycare, with his doghouse approach towards certain players. If he was ever going to change for the benefit of the team, last yr was the perfect time, especially after the trade for Bibby. Instead of changing after the trade, he seemed to withdraw and started pounding harder on that square peg.

THE TRUTH-very good point. Over the last 5-6yrs, JDumars and his Pistons have benn one of the winningest and most successful franchises in the NBA. Even so, they’ve demonstrated a willingness to fire a HC(Brown, Saunders) if it’s felt he was not longer doing what was best for the overall development/advancement of the players and team. DO YOU THINK DUMARS WOULD HAVE REHIRED WOODSON IF HE’D BEEN THE HAWKS GM? I think BKnight reached the right conclusion about Woodson last yr when he tried several times to fire him. The SAASG took advantage of that decision, and rift, and used it to get rid of BK instead. NAME ANOTHER NBA TEAM THAT’S GOING INTO THIS SEASON WITH A HC THAT’S DEMONSTRATED THE POTENTIAL TO HOLD THE TEAM AND CERTAIN PLAYERS BACK.

By ant banks

October 25, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

ken i really feel that alot of the ineptitude of the hawks can be traced back to the fractured asg group. belkin has alot to say in who can be hired and fired, etc.

this thing will be resolved in february, with a clear owner, hopefully hawks will be 6 games above .500, if we are we keep bibby and advance to the playoffs.

i really believe that they could not spend big money to bring in a big coach because of the ownership groups’ split.

By DHD

October 25, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

2 keys to the season: Bibby and Williams must have great seasons. If that happens and everybody plays the way they should, we’ll win 45 games and maybe win one round in the playoffs.

By ant banks

October 25, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

larry brown, bobby knight, and woody’s coaching system is garbage! other than larry’s detroit team, which won one championship and larry’s stop in philly, what has that system produced in the past 10 yrs?

byron scott, popovich, phil jackson, pat riley (lakers/new york teams), dantoni, jerry sloan. these coaches style/philosophy is consistenly at the top of the league, not the style of knight, brown, woodson their style doesn’t work in ‘08

By MannyT

October 25, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

I.MUS I think there was some selective Saturday afternoon reading. I don’t think I said take Chills INSTEAD of Flip/Mo. I thought I talked about Sund using better negotiating tactics and he would have taken the MLE and still added vets (like Flip and Mo) who did not cost a ton of cap cash. Chills didn’t get that offer until late in the process.

If you wanted a 5% raise at work and it was a reasonable request, it should not be a huge deal. If they take awhile to get it done and someone else offers you a 25% raise, you are wise to consider the offer. If you then turn in your resignation and the old boss counters with that 5% raise, it is not likely to get you back at the end. Even though the same offer would have worked at the beginning of the negotiation, it was not as good at the end. That was the Chills/Sund experience as I understood it.

I’m not going to rehash all that Ariose and I went back and forth on last night. Just check the October 25, 2008 2:03 AM post and it covers most of what you are pointing my way. And if you check back, Chills did get other NBA offers but restricted free agency gave Sund the ability to play hard ball—which he did instead of a sign & trade. Now it is likely that he walked and the Hawks get zero if he stays away long enough.

For the last little Ando doom and gloom jab, I think I have been pretty consistent. Even bumped up my win projection for this season when you noted my rhymes earlier.

BWAF

By jhan

October 25, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Manny T: were you sitting in your new seats at the open practice? If so, I’ll know where to find you this season.

By ray

October 25, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

MannyT makes the point I agree with most in regards to Woodson: good coaches focus on what they have. They focus on building up the guys they have, not running around and complaining. Especially not first time head coaches, eh? You’d think somebody owed the guy his job…

On the flip side of the coin, I wasn’t impressed with what he was given.

Flip the coin back over, and I see a better coach doing a better job with what he’s had…and doing it sooner. I’m not hatin’, ‘cause I don’t hate the guy. I’ve always said that he is pretty much a classy guy. He hasn’t always seemed that way, but for the most part he is.

However, you don’t get by on class. It wins you no games. You could say that Woodson has developed guys. I say he has not, he’s just made them play hard. But a high school coach can do that. A rec-league coach can do that. Of course he got them to play hard. Play hard or don’t play was the rule. Even then, it wasn’t a consistent rule because we’ve been so damn sorry, that Woodson was forced to play youngsters a lot of minutes (that’s how bad the veterans sucked). You think Woody plays Josh Smith 30+ minutes a night if he has a healthy, fairly reliable, half-way decent vet on the bench that can play the same position? Hell no. Maybe now, but not a year or two (or more) ago. Same with Marvin. If Josh took a bad shot, he’d be right back on the pine next to Salim, wondering if he’ll get to play next month or not. He didn’t develop a damn thing.

You want development? Listen to the words Acie spoke about how he played last year. Listen to the words Woodson spoke about the same subject. Did you hear or see the word “encouragement” anywhere? No, you didn’t. And you won’t. Because that would be a part of development.

Being hard on a guy isn’t all there is to development. You have to add encouragement as well. Of course, it takes many forms, but it’s still the same thing. And you have to project a winning attitude, not one of “make a mistake and you a$$ will be glued to the bench until I get tired of looking at you.” Sometimes trust comes because you give it, not because it is earned in a vaccum. Show a guy a little trust and he shows himself to be trustworthy. Or he doesn’t. But he can’t ever do it if you don’t give him the chance. And not everyone learns the same way or takes certain kinds of criticism the way you want them to. Communication isn’t as simple as “I told you what I know I wanted, it’s your job to understand it the way I want you to and give me the results I desire.”

Woody better figure this out or we’re not going to make it, it’s that simple. Word to the wise: I’ve seen better, smarter coaches go by the wayside for less.

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 25, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Apparently HB Ando works for AccuScore…

By ray

October 25, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

I.MUS,

Come on, man. The Childress thing was all about timing. They didn’t offer the man shyt in the beginning. Back when Smith got that 5yr/$45 million dollar offer? Childress got nada. Next year? Zilch. He didn’t get a single stinkin’ offer until after the whole story broke that Olympiacos was going to give him a nice 2 year contract to go to Greece. Then all of the sudden Sund and one of his toadies was rushing off to meet with Childress’ agent in Washington. Well, too little too late. I say too little not because the offer wasn’t enough. But because it was less than the actual offer that Olympiacos put on the table (which was more than the reported offer). I say too late because you don’t offer a man the amount he should get in the NBA after somebody outside the NBA offers him more than he’s worth in the NBA.

Begin rant (not meant for you, IMUS)..

I don’t understand why people keep putting this on Childress all the time. Yeah he took the money. Wouldn’t you if your boss told you, “I ain’t offering you a single damn red cent for a raise. You think you deserve one? Go find somebody who will give you one.” Then you go find one, knowing that it’s more than anything anybody should be paying you for what you do, and your boss comes back and says “Well, I want you back. Here, I guess I’ll give you the maximum of what you’re really worth around here. Stick around, huh?”

Meanwhile, the company that says they want you is still offering to grossly overpay your a$$. Tell me again….what would you do?

Look, Sund, Gearon, whoever…they played hardball because they could afford to…they thought. It was a reasonable thought. It was financially a reasonable gamble. By itself, with no other factors, that is. But this is what really pi$$es me off. It ain’t the fact that they gambled. It ain’t the fact that they never saw Olympiacos coming. It’s these two things: 1)If you value the guy, give him an offer. Even a low-ball offer. At least then there’s a figure to go with. Instead, no offer whatsoever. Heh. 2)Sekou reported that 8 teams initiated sign-and-trade talks with us about Childress. Management thumbed their noses at all of them. Put the kabosh on anything we could have gotten. Who knows what kind of assets we missed on. Now we are staring at an asset that has left, with no replacement.

That’s why I say Flip/Mo aren’t replacements for Childress. They were not obtained by using Childress or his rights. They were obtained OUTSIDE of that situation altogether. They have no connection to it. Childress was an asset, as is any player. We lost the asset for now, probably for good unless he comes back inside of three years. And we have nothing in return for that asset. And outside of free agency, we had chances to get other assets. But we didn’t. That’s foolishness.

Rant off…for now.

By ray

October 25, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

And I see I said the same thing about the Childress thing as MannyT and Najeh. Proof that teed-off minds think alike…

Ken, good point about management and their decision to re-hire Woody. That stinks primarily of Gearon Jr to me, though.

As to your question about signing a guy like Morris when you know Woody doesn’t develop young guys real well? Simple. Sund will get his chance to see first hand how Woody does his job. It’s only fair to do things that way and see it for himself. It would be stupid to fire him based solely on other people’s observations and/or feelings, people whom you don’t yet know personally.

But Morris? Sund likes them bigs. Real bigs. Knight? He was a “swinger”. Sund? He’s a got a big guy fetish…

Ant, that coaching system works if you have a pile of tough-minded vets. If you don’t, you’re right….it’s garbage. It doesn’t work with a young team. Never has, never will.

Systems like that destroy a great many young players. Unless they have above-average mental and emotional toughness. That’s the difference between Horford and Sheldon. Between Mario and Salim. Then there’s guys like Acie who don’t get that right away, then suddenly regain confidence (I hope).

By ray

October 25, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Damn, Poop. I don’t know whether to laugh at your joke or cry for the depressing prognosis…

By MannyT

October 25, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

ray Where can I get one of those rant on, rant off things? eBay, Amazon, BCU Outlet store?

On the Woody thing, I’ll be brief. Ditto. Enough said.

jhan That wasn’t my regular seat. I’m near doc in sect 108 next to last row (S). I’ll find my way toward the halftime pretzel stop.

By Clyde

October 26, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

The Champ Has Spoken:

38-44

ROLL TIDE!!!!!

By rms

October 26, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

ROLL TIDE MY FOOT!! GO BACK TO ALABAMA WITH THAT ROLL TIDE!! ROLL DEEZ!!!

By BosnianBaller

October 26, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

I see us finishing 4th this year.aside from boston,lebron,and detroit the east is still weak.philly is good but not that good.

By vava74

October 26, 2008 7:13 AM | Link to this

44-38

Our bench is not worse, its different.

We should insert Otello immediately on the rotation to add the offensive rebounding and instant energy lost with the departure of J. Chills.

If Bibby gets to play a full season at 80% of what he was and we do not losse any of the main chips more than 10 games, it will be a cake walk to the play-offs, but… an early departure due to lack of defence.

I personally would go big at the begining of with Zaza, Al, Josh, JJ and Bibby, removing Zaza whenever he did not kick start.

Our bench should be a high flying scoring machine with Marvin (as the designated 6th man), Flip and Mo (removing Zaza at the 6 minute mark, and Josh and JJ at th 9 minute mark of the first period), taking it small and quick until the 7th of the second when I would re-insert the starters.

In the meantime, Zaza would enter in relief of Al close to the end of the first with Law entering for Bibby.

By Ryan

October 26, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

I still have to wonder why there are so many people that seem to think that Pessimism and insight are the same thing.

By ant banks

October 26, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

i was lookin’ at the southeast division and was thinkin’ that we gotta get off to an early jump in the division.

miami is rebuilding and don’t have a true big. they went 2-5 in preseason and look like garbage. we should go 3-1 against them for the season

charlotte is garbage. they are 0-8 in preseason, but we have an uncanny way of playin’ DOWN to the competition. we should sweep them in the series 4-0.

washington wiz went 2-5 in preseason. gilbert is out until jan., but the surprisingly play better with him out. haywood is out until dec, also. we should split with them 2-2.

orlando we always, always, always play them tuff. i feel we can split with them. 2-2

we should go 11-5 in the division.

as far as the conference: 1boston, 2detroit, 3orlando, 4cleveland. 5-8 are a toss up with no particular order philly, toronto, indy, hawks, washington, chicago.

we won 12 road games out of 41 last yr, which is ridiculous!! we need to win 17+ games on the road.

we won 25 home games which is about 50% of our home games, which is good, we need to eek out 28+ home games.

if we do this this will give us 45 wins.

By richbrave

October 26, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

ANT BANKS:

I follow the WIZARDS, at times not rationally, but I do follow them. They are not ready for this season to begin. The loss of HEYWOOD is going to destroy their early season chemistry. It will take time for JORDAN to adjust their game with both #1, and #5 out of the starting line-up. Forget it. If the HAWKS play the WIZ four, its a sweep for the ATLANTANS at this point.

By Lacsho

October 26, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Ant

I think Boston and Detroit will be 1&2 after that everything is up for grabs.

Philly will be tough, as will Orlando. I think Cleveland is blessed to have Lebron. He’s a fantastic player, but the ref’s give him a lot bullshyt calls. Toronto will be tough sometimes they suffer from the same plague the Hawks have had (Consistency).

That’s seven teams. The lower five will be battling. Moreover, I feel the east will really be will be very competitive this year. I think you must play above .500 this year to get into the playoffs.

Our Hawks will definitely be tough. If they play well on the road, they’ll be fine. Like any fan I hope we don’t encounter a significant injury, however with the depth on the bench, I feel we can still push forward and succeed.

By ray

October 26, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Manny,

rant on, rant off is brought to you by the same folks that came up with wax on, wax off. It’s a BCU issued item, so it’s free for you. Use as you please, sir.

Ant, agreed in regards to the winning on the road thing. We have got to win more on the road. As for an assessment of some of the teams: Toronto will be tough as long as they stay healthy. In fact, they may be more than tough. They could be better than Orlando.

Miami worries me because Chalmers is showing himself to be pretty good, Wade is healthy as a thoroughbred, Beasley is for real, and I suspect they will make a trade at or before the deadline that will make them better than they are now.

We should be beating the brakes off of Charlotte. I can’t stand the ‘Cats. I don’t even know why, but I hate when we play them. Maybe it’s because we keep acting like we’re their b!tch or something.

Lacsho, I agree. A .500 record is what it will take this time around. As for Lebron…I think Cleveland better start getting those goodbye banners ready..

By Ariose

October 26, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Wow, you guys HAVE to see this about Mike Bibby……..Read the comments too. We’re not crazy, and I don’t think a full year of him will help either…..we might need a trade pronto…..before the ret of the leauge figures it out.

I’ve been a Chalmers fan since I saw him in the McDonalds All-American game, but when I saw him play in preseason…..he was a very poor ball handler from what I’ve seen of him in the past…….he didn’t do well against pressure…..had to pick up hi dribble and pass.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By ray

October 26, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Ariose, nice link. Very interesting read. I think one point stands out in particular (and I shamelessly admit it’s because it mirrors a point I’ve been trying to make for weeks): The rise of Kevin Martin. I’ll say it yet again: Bibby does (or did) well in a high octane offense where he was the featured guard. Kevin Martin is clearly the better offensive option. This caused Bibby’s game to suffer. Same happens here, where JJ is the man (and rightfully so).

As for his shooting trends…well, he’s still a threat, but he’s less of one in this system, and in these days.

By Ariose

October 26, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Ray, I agree. Based on the info…..it seems like he needs to shoot more mid-range shots(his bread and butter) and drive to the basket and create more like he did earlier in his career…….woody also needs to insert a lot more pick n’ roll plays into the offense.

Also, if Bibby is OPEN for three, somtimes he should just think about stepping in if he’s not shooting particularly well….

He doen’t drive to the basket nearly as much as he used to. Maybe he’s scared of injuy with his increasing age?

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

October 26, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Hopefully Tha Bibb will adapt and his assist numbers will rise considerably this season. We have a lot of weapons so We don’t need him to score as much. But when he’s ON, and everyone is flowing well offensively, watch out……..we’re going to be a pain in the arse for whoever our opponet is.

Maybe I was jumping the gun I suggesting a trade. Honestly, I think Bibby will sign here again for maybe 4-7 mill a season…….and eventually he can be Acie’s backup….

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

October 26, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Quotes from other Blogs about Bibby:

In terms of my playmaker rather than floor general comment.

The Kings play a high post offense which is run by their big men – Divac, Webber, Brad Miller – and the duties of the point guard are limited in this regard. Think of how Eddie House plays the point for Boston, that’s what Mike Bibby did for Sacramento albeit to a higher level of ability. Bibby wasn’t the type to go, we have to get Webber on the low post and get him the ball right now, he was bring it up pass it to Vlade and let’s see where we go from there. He wasn’t the type to exploit mismatches. He brought the ball up and let the bigs run the offense. Bibby also spent a good chunk of his time off ball in Sacramento. Nothing wrong with that, just how Sacramento play. Bibby did his job well and suited that role extremely well.

While his role as a point was limited in contrast to his days at Vancouver he still had some value and that was penetration which allowed him to get into the paint and finish or dish (playmaker). Nowadays he doesn’t get into the paint nearly as well and it’s limited his number of easy baskets (part of the lower FG%) and the number of easy opportunities he can create for his teammates (limited him as a playmaker).

Switch back to Vancouver where he was used as the consummate point guard who controls everything. His last season there he finished 3rd in the league in assists but his team was only 26th (out of 29)[/i] in offensive efficiency despite having a few good offensive players i out there. Their play lacked an intelligence, a direction, all too often … but Bibby did a good job of acting as a playmaker churning out 8 dimes a night.

Hawks record with Anthony Johnson …. 20-22 Hawks record with Mike Bibby ….. 15-16

We can all agree that Mike Bibby of his former self is a better player than Anthony Johnson right? We can all agree he should have a bigger impact on the court?

It didn’t work out that way and it’s not a surprise. I said it wouldn’t when they made the trade and it’s Mike Bibby is not a significant upgrade over Anthony Johnson. His defense is atrocious and it cancels out his offensive impact. Also that his offensive impact is vastly limited in comparison to past years because his penetration and ability to get into the paint has diminished considerably which effects his scoring and his ability to create for teammates. This isn’t a one year thing either, the same thing happened the year before with Bibby.

Bibby has now become a one dimensional offensive player that is almost completely dependent on the pick and roll to get himself a shot, and who from there normally has to resort to contested 20 footers because he can’t get into the paint and wreak havoc like he used to. This is why Boston shut him down in the playoffs and why his performances have dropped hugely over the past two years.

Remember this is the same Anthony Johnson who has been criticized by several analysts (Hollinger for one) as a backup guard for the Magic. This is who Bibby failed to significantly improve on.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

October 26, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

….Vintage Mike….and what we need…

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Lacsho

October 26, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Ray

I think we’re lamenting the same things about Bibby. I said it before he’s not a distributor. That online articles proves our point. He’s in his contract year, so do you think he’s going to stop jacking up shots? (No) Do you guys actually think he’s going to start back playing like a true point guard? (Hell No). Therefore he will be trade bait by January…..

By Samuel

October 26, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

One thing you are discounting however,is the confidence the other Hawks players have when Bibby is on the floor. Again, let’s let the season play out and we’ll see.

I don’t think you’ll find a coach, a Gm or a player in the league that will say that the Hawks are as good a team with Anthony Johnson than with Mike Bibby. These are the real experts. Not some sportswriter or blogger.

Yall, I like my Fantasy Team.

By ant banks

October 26, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

west, hunter, and gardner made the final roster. the hawks only have to carry 12 players, i don’t know why they would carry 15 when chances are these guys won’t see a combined 48minutes throughout the season verses the amount of money you have to pay them. go figure!!

boy did the falcons get screwed!!! wow!! the league needs to do somethin’ about blown calls this huge!!

By Lacsho

October 26, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Yeah Banks the falcons got plugged with no Vaseline.. If the same play happens to the Eagles, they tear the stadium down..

I’m willing to let the first couple of months play out, but you have to know the players have the same amount of confidence in Flip and Acie…

By Lacsho

October 26, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Yeah Banks the falcons got plugged with no Vaseline.. If the same play happens to the Eagles, they tear the stadium down..

I’m willing to let the first couple of months play out, but you have to know the players have the same amount of confidence in Flip and Acie…

By doc

October 26, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

well quite a few really good comments and a huge increase in numbers playing the nostradamus bit this year than from 3 years ago at this point in the season. quite a following sekou has built. good job guys.

not too much kool aide this year, funny as much acrimony and pizzing there was this summer most, no matter what camp they were in, have a pretty narrow window of expectation.

it goes from the alpha of lascho at 50 wins …. sorry ando to use the alpha term without it resting comfortably on your head to the omega which as one would expect is clyde at 38. there is also something very interesting here; no matter the camp, we all expect there to be an improvement this year over last including yes, clyde. forgot to add that there are some abstentions, couldnt find kens prediction and now we can call ray “i dont make predictions ray”. he refused to play this game with us. the guy is afraid of being wrong.

as far as me, i think the team is much better than last year at this point. even with that i cant expect more than what matt= said and go with a 42 and 40 record with a range of 37 to 44. i guess an additional 5 wins is significant only wish i could be believing in more than that. overall, i say 27 wins at home and 15 on the road.

samuel, i like your bulldog support of woody but he just hasnt distinguished himself beyond saying this; he hasnt lost his team and he comes at the right price for the owners. so far i am not a believer of woody but would be pleased to change my opinion of him. still think that nate mcmillan is the better coach with a .390 vs woody’s .320 winning percentage and basically woody is in the bottom third of the coaching mix as a whole. never have heard anyone in the media say what a great job he has done, that doesnt bode well and probably we come up short on what could be derived with what weapons are at hand. now that he has a full roster he will have to keep all folks happy or risk, yup, losing the team and be gone.

unfortunately, bibby doesnt seem to be anything more than the model that finished the season at a .500 percentage and got blown out by someone who should have been finishing up his senior year at kentucky in the playoffs. remember that was before the young kid got his confidence that grew through the playoffs. bibby came too expensive, cost us this off season in negotiation. probably, if i had a bit more confidence in him then i could be pushed to say this team is capable of getting beyond the 45 mark and capturing the 6th or 7th slot but i think they will slide into the 8th seed.

By ant banks

October 26, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

lacsho bibby has been takin’ a blastin’ on this blog lately, but i will take bibby/jj vs any other pg/sg in the southeast div.

washington antonio daniels/deshawn stevens

orlando jameer/pietrus

miami chalmers/d wade

charlotte felton/richardson

i think bibby/jj are a better combo than any of these in our div.

By ant banks

October 26, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

also, our bench flip/mo, acie is helluva. i think on any given night we can get 30pts off the bench. this same type of production is what put boston on top of the bball universe.

By ant banks

October 26, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

a few of you all have been commenting about the chills situation. i am glad that chills went to greece. they would have tried to make him a journey man like flip murray and mo evans. these guys are both good players but their paultry salaries say somethin’ different. teams have been usin’ them for years and they have not been able to get their payday, meanwhile speedy sits on the bench makin’ millions.

By Ariose

October 26, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

ant, I agree. My reason for posting the Bibby stuff was just to show other people’s evaluation of his recent and suprising decline. Honestly, more than anything it was Adleman’s system. His numbers didn’t really drop until Adleman left.

If you actually go to NBA.com and look at Bibby’ numbers game by game(while he was in a Hawk uniform) They’re pretty good night in and night out……what we would consider him having a bad (shooting) night…..on paper is usually something like 11-14pts and between 3 and 8 assists.

It just looks horrible on tape b/c he’s a volume shooter(and the fact that JJ is getting him wide open looks that he just can’t knock down……which is why I say he needs to penetrate/shoot in the mid-range a little more).

Considering that he is now healthy and not shooting on one leg anymore(hopefully) his slumps shouldn’t be as bad this year. He’s an up tempo guy so he’ll thrive in some form or fashon.

Even if he’s not having a good night, we have Acie/FlipMo, and Solo/Zaza to fill the void…..Scoring isn’t the problem now….Hopefully our defense will be solid for all 82 games.

Joe Johnson-Game Time

~Sir Link A Lot~

By Ariose

October 26, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Ant Banks Amen, man….amen. Where i the Justice???

Chris Paul-Game Time

Rudy Gay-Game Time

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

October 26, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

I meant: Where is the Justice lol.

Rashard Lewis-Game Time

Gilber Arenas-Game Time

~Sir Links A Lot~

By richbrave

October 26, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

ANT BANKS:

Couldn’t agree more regarding the WIZARDS. That ain’t sayin’ much.

A.D. is the oldest member of the club at 34. Too many falls on the hardwood. They’re beginning to take a toll. He’s not the player he was when he came to the WIZ three years ago. His back-up until GIL returns(IF he does) is a second year pro - DEE BROWN. At 6’0” I don’t believe he’s ever gonna’ be a very effective point, but most assuredly not EARLY this year. The WASHINGTON club has serious issues at PG. If the aging DANIELS goes out, they win 0 games.

As I stated earlier here, with HEYWOOD gone, the five position is just not going to be effective this entire year. THOMAS certainly was not dominant as a center before his chest was cracked. He has returned with a will however. Frankly, I take my hat off to him. I never thought he’d step on the hard court again. But he’s rusty at best and his game isn’t great and never will be. DARIUS SONGAILA is just too small and slow to be a five, and it shows. EDDIE puts him in when he can be most effective, and that’s only in certain situations against selected players and against a few teams. This year he’s gonna’ have to play a lot, and the team will be seriously handicapped in that slot. JAMISON is a tweener at best, and certainly cannot play the five as BIG AL does. Which leaves the two newbies. PETCHEROV, who’s slated as a four and sometimes is playing at the two taking 3’s. Actually, he’s a good outside shooter, and JORDAN has used the height advantage a few times. But the team sacrifices D in those instances, and seriously, the WIZARDS defense has never been very good. So far this year it’s a shambles. Which leaves the rookie JaVALE McGEE who I think will be gang-busters at the five - just not now. Really I can’t say the D.C. team could take one from the HAWKS AT THIS POINT.

By Matt = niremetal

October 26, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

Najeh,

On Accuscore…last year, they had the Bulls leading the East with 55 wins, the Heat winning 51, the Sixers winning 31, and the Knicks close to .500 (38-44). Oh, and they had the Hawks at 30 wins. In the West, they had the Blazers at 20 wins and the Lakers at 36.

Accuscore is really a load of doo-doo. To an even greater degree than Hollinger, it assumes that the effectiveness of teams can be crunched down to the statistics of individual players, and run repeated simulations using horrible assumptions about the way those statistics will translate into a team’s Won-Lost percentage.

Pay it no mind. It’s actually better to rely on the opinions of talking heads who, for all their other flaws, aren’t bound by the tyranny of arbitrary statistics.

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 27, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

Haha thanks for the link Matt. Yeah, I generally don’t trust anything that tries to analyze something as unpredictable as sports using just numbers, which is partly the reason why I find John Hollinger to be full of sh-t more often than not. I was more amused by the AccuScore prediction than anything. And yeah, AccuScore’s crazy azz spreadsheet is even worse than anything I’ve seen in a Hollinger column.

By HB Ando

October 27, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

ant, if all the point guards you mentioned made (even combined) the $15.5 million that Bibby will make this year, then your point would be compelling. But you have to put performance into the context of salary, and impact on a teams’ salary cap, to get the accurate picture.

Truth is that Sac couldn’t dump Bibby fast enough, when they accurately identified that Beno Udrih was putting up the same numbers as Bibby, given the same minutes, for about a half-million last season.

Doesn’t really matter though. Bibby is gone, so railing against folks who see his limitations is pretty pointless. Might as well send that stuff to the ASG, as they’ll be the ones who send him packing.

Some guy named Ryan said he doesn’t understand why folks confuse pessimism for insight. I’d suggest Ryan is confusing pessimism for reasonable projection, and insight for track record.

We’re getting close to “go” time, so yet another summer of slap fighting is finally coming to a merciful close.

Now it’s about performance, not speculation. Proof will be in the puddin’.

I’ll be Missouri.

Show me………

By HB Ando

October 27, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

Funny how both Sam and Joe, two of the biggest talkers our blog have ever known, have more faith in the historically moribund Hawks, this season, than the ability of either of them to outplay me in fantasy basketball.

It’s hard to fathom that anyone, with either stones or a modicum of self-confidence, would rather wager their money on an outcome they have zero control over (the Hawks making the playoffs), than an actual test of competitive skill.

Tells you all you need to know about both fellas……

Is what it is, I suppose.

By MannyT

October 27, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

wax on The tyranny of arbitrary statistics?

I have yet to see a number jump up and force someone to do anything.

Numbers don’t lie. People make interpretations of them that skew facts. Classic example is that glass half full/half empty thing. It all depends on your perspective.

Just like being broke. At 9 that meant, I don’t have any money. At 19, that meant, I don’t have enough money to do what I want to do. At 29 that meant, my bills are more than my discretionary income.

wax off

back to hoops.

Ariose Thanks for bringing your unique style to the Bibby question.

Bibby played a different game for Adelman than Terry Porter did as a PG. Yet, Adelman found a way to be very good with both. Now Adelman is good with Rafer Alston at the point. Seems like Adelman is a very good coach. hmmm

Can Woody find a role that makes the Hawks successful with Bibby at the point? If I use the tyranny of that win-loss record, it looks like the coach got as much out of Bibby as he did out of AJ. Well, Bibby was playing hurt, so I hope there is significant upside.

If not, it will be difficult to get much back for him in trade. Remember, the trade value of what we take back has to be close (within 25%) of the salary we send out.

Ant Keep in mind that the guys at the end of the bench are good for practice. They know your plays and may get decent time if there are injuries. Solomon only played 145 minutes last season. I think he’ll get more this year. Mario got 269 minutes.

Typically there are 12 on the active roster for a night. If you consider that Claxton will not be active until he is fully healthy, one of the last 3 will be on the active game day roster every game.

On the record for this season, I’ve consulted the PEST (Predictive Events Sphere of Truth.) I think it said 27 home wins and 17 road wins. The vets make it easier to bump up that road win total.

BWAF

By Astro Joe

October 27, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

Ando, next, you should try a post that makes the goofy chicken sound to see if you can punk someone into adding the fantasy variable into the original arrangement that you offered (with absolutely no prompting from me). There’s a reason why Vegas tries to get people to select 3 games at a time vs. 1… because the more variables the less likely that the player wins. And Vegas hotels & casinos are built on the egos of thousands of people. So again, thanks but no thanks… I’ll stick with the original unsolicited proposal that you offered.

By randy

October 27, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

45 games seems a bit optomistic. But you can never tell, its a whole new season.

By Lacsho

October 27, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Ant

I know I’ve been hard on Bibby, but Ando makes a point (We agree) hell is going to freeze over)). The money we pay Bibby warrants this criticism. If I’m not mistaken he may be one of the highest paid point guards in the league. I just wish Acie would’ve gotten the same opportunity, and vote of confidence that Bibby received last year. I’ll bite my tongue and enjoy the ride; hopefully Bibby will prove me wrong.

Hell what do I know? I’m the same guy who agreed with the players predictions for a 50 win season. I’ve been known to make some outrageous comments, and sometimes my optimism blinds me. However, when we win 50 they’re going to have to shut this blog down.

By doc

October 27, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

alpha speaks, optimist that is. heh heh

By Melvin

October 27, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

I’m feeling optimistic about this season. I think the Hawks will win between 45-50 games. Oh my, the optimisic bug has bitten me this preseason. Now let’s see how long the bite will last….

By Ken Strickland

October 27, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Bibby’s biggest problem isn’t his shooting or lack of assists, but his indifference to playing DEF. That puts pressure on the overall team DEF, especially our frontline. That’s why I favor Acie as our PG. Offensively, Bibby shoots over the DEF. Defensively, he’s a liability. Offensively, Acie’s speed and quickness allows him to break down DEF’s and create scoring opportunities for others. Defensively, he puts pressure on the ball, limits the damage done by the player he’s guarding and provides more protection for our frontline.

While Bibby increased our scoring average by 9PPG, his sorry DEF increased our points allowed by 9PPG. Acie can approximate Bibby’s scoring increase with his own scoring and increased assists. His DEF will reduce our points allowed and give us a net gain overall. Most importantly, having scoring options like Evans, Murray and Gardner makes it an awful lot easier to do without Bibby’s outside scoring.

We don’t need to spend 15.5M per yr to get what we’re getting from Bibby. Murray can provide the same outside shooting and play much better DEF. At this point in his career, I don’t think Bibby is any teams long term solution at PG. But, he can help a number of teams, needing a vet PG, get to the playoffs like he helped us last yr.

The highest scoring teams during the regular season are exciting to watch, but they haven’t won any championships. The championship teams are the ones that play good team DEF(Spurs, Pistons) and have PG’s that play DEF(CBillups) or breakdown DEF’s with their penetration.

By HB Ando

October 27, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Joe, fair enough, chickenshit….

By HB Ando

October 27, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Knicks waived Patrick Ewing, Jr. Anybody interested in a “five inches taller” version of Mario West?

By terrell barron

October 27, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Eastern Conference preview is airing on NBA TV right now. Good to see Smitty.

By HB Ando

October 27, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

Apologies, I thought the phrase I used, to describe Joe, while accurate enough, would be edited by the site.

Hopefully, no children read that post (nor were any animals hurt in the making of this film).

I guess there’s a new word to add to the list……..

By Ariose

October 27, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

LOl@Ando Heehehehe!!

By Gypsyjoe

October 27, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Hawks fans,

I just want to show everyone how the Hawks get no respect. If you go to the Hawks SI web page, check out the stories they have about the Hawks, 2 of them are about a football team called the Hawks from Ohio. What a frigin joke. This is not the first time.They had 3 stories last month about the same team. What a joke. I thought these stories have to be about the ATLANTA HAWKS.

By Melvin

October 27, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

I sure would like to see the Hawks sign David Harrison. Bye,bye Gardner…

By Ariose

October 27, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Gardner has a guarneteed contract so it’s either bte,bye Hunter or West…..besides, He’s more of a PF and we have enough of those……Morris is Bigger.

By ray

October 27, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

Congratulations to all the guys who made the team.

Melvin, there’s a reason that the Pacers let go of a once-promising young big in David Harrison. He’s got issues, dude…kinda like Olowakandi does/did. And I’d rather have Olowakandi (who was one of the biggest busts ever).

Doc, thanks for the dart. I can always count on you. Don’t let honest abe know you’re doing his job, though.

Ando, Answering your e-mail: It is amazing how the temperature changed on Bibby, is it not? I think we both know why. I can’t believe you got away with the chicken poop post…..hehe hehe, maybe Najeh should see if he can post as Najeh Davensh!t…just to see if it works.

Najeh, just kidding, just kidding…

Lacsho, while I agree that we lament both Bibby’s problems and Acie’s lost season last year, hopefully we will see a solution to both this year. Acie has to get the playing time though, or it won’t happen. Hoping, hoping, hoping…

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 27, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Test message.

F*** s** p*** c** b*** Chickenshit w******* t**.

By Melvin

October 27, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

I think we could very well start the season 2-0. We normally play Orlando well. Outside of Howard, I like how we matchup against them. They really don’t have a true (or dominate) PF on their roster to play along side Howard. Philly will be rolling into the ATL after playing the Knicks the night before. So they may have tired legs along with trying to develop chemistry with the new addition of Brand. Those would be two quality wins against teams that are projected to finish ahead of the Hawks.

By Najeh Davenshit

October 27, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Haha I actually posted that previous message before I saw yours, Ray.

By lilspud4

October 27, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

If the team struggles will a trade for Allen Iverson or Step Marbury be in the works. Bibby and Speedy would match salaries and we could try either of the guards out for this year. Any thoughths?

By ray

October 27, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Poop, uhhh, I guess it still works.

By Tyger

October 27, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Hawks 2k9

Anybody got an idea when the “living rosters” will kick-in and add Randolph, Othello and Gardner to the Hawks 2008 roster???

By doc

October 27, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

posted below is a really good look at our team i borrowed off the bradley blog. sooo many of us will see comments similar to our own it will be hard for many to not point out that they said it themselves. pretty objective look from an opposing teams scout. again every one of us is more optimistic than the mainstream media and this scout. again our range of expectation is 38 to 50 wins, that isnt that great of a spread. last year it was about between 27 wins to 55 wins. enjoy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/10/22/hawks/

By richbrave

October 27, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

OMG. WTF.!!!! Just watched 9:10 to YUMA. Great flick.

By richbrave

October 27, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

DAMN. I missed the train. 3:10 to YUMA. Jeeze.

By HB Ando

October 27, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Najeh, LOL!!!!

By HB Ando

October 27, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Ray, speak it and they will come…….

By HB Ando

October 27, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

Whatever anyone might think about Woody, and with the likelihood that the three of them won’t make a serious difference in the overall record (though, as far as intense practices pushing a young team to continue to improve, this should do it), you have to give the coaching staff, and West, Hunter and Gardner much props.

3 hungry, young players, living out their dream. Major congrats to those three guys.

And it says a lot about the kind of coach Woody is, flaws and all, that he fills those slots with defensive-minded, “effort” guys. Hunter seems to have the potential to be a rotation guy in this league. Hopefully he’ll continue to develop. Gardner sounds promising, though I don’t have anything to go on other than what I’ve read. And if West could develop a consistent 3-point set shot, how much different is Bruce Bowen?

NBA begins TOMORROW NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By rms

October 27, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

hawks will underachieve as long as they have bad management/ownership and most of all bad coaching. I love the hawks, but I cant be nieve(I think thats how u spell it). But this whole wait and see approach thing means waiting for the inevitable. We already know, by December we will be screaming for Woodson to go and ownership to get it together.

By MannyT

October 27, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

doc the PEST guarantees me that the win total will be between 0 and 82. You can take that to Vegas!

Now that most of the blog wants to move Bibby, time to get honest. Who wants that big contract early in the season? We will find lots of pals in February that want to drop their chicken crap contracts on us.

Let’s just ride with the guy until the end of the season unless there is a really good deal to be made.

Falling from the rafters of NBA TV…it’s free stuff!

We get a week of free NBA TV to see how Smitty is doing with his new gig. I believe it even includes free league pass.

BWAF

By HB Ando

October 27, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Manny, just say no……

By Matt = niremetal

October 27, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Rich - 3:10 to Yuma is an awesome, awesome movie. The last 30 minutes in particular are amazing.

Just 44 more hours…

By blue hawk

October 28, 2008 4:07 AM | Link to this

Sekou

Marvin has a longer wingspan and standing reach than Al or Josh. He has a good vertical although probably not as much as Josh’s but it’s definitely not far from it.

He’s got the quickness to keep toe to toe on defense, he’s got the length, the strength and the vertical. So why the hell does he just average a block every two games? (0.4 BLK per game WHAT THE?!!!)

He should be blocking more shots. It’s a part of his game that he definitely should work on and not just his three point shooting.

Can someone please teach this guy how to get his hand in the way of a ball that has just been released?

In my opinion he could become a deadly perimeter defender, shutting down both perimeter shooters (just by reaching up in the sky and putting his hand on the path of jumpshots; Jason Maxiell blocks a lot of jumpshots just by doing this, and they both have similar physical dimensions) and slashers (he can definitely keep up with the quickest of the NBA, and I’m sure he can block a lot of shots from behind just like what Dwyane Wade usually does).

Please, please bring this up with Marvin.

A simple change he can try is that instead of trying to block the jump shot from the shooter’s releasing hand, he should try just reaching for the sky and putting his hand on the path of the ball that had just been released (reach upward instead of forward and then upward). I’m sure he’ll be able to catch a lot of balls in midair just by adding this to his game.

Marvin Williams Ht w/o shoes 6’7” Wingspan 7’3.5” Std. Reach 9’0”

Al Horford Ht w/o Shoes 6’8.75” Wingspan 7’0.75” Std. Reach 8’11”

Josh Smith Ht. w/o shoes 6’7” Wingspan 7’0” Std. Reach 8’10.5”

By MannyT

October 28, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Ando Not sure which part you want me to say no to, but I’ll guess that it has something to do with Bibby, because the PEST is infallible and I doubt you have any grudge against free NBA TV ;-)

I’m not saying we must keep Bibby. I am saying that you don’t want to trade him and get back a package of bad contracts that don’t expire soon.

Not picking, but would you trade one Bibby contract for 2 Speedy’s? The numbers should be close, but why have an additional year of messy contracts when you can choose not to extend him after this season and be done.

If you can make a deal that helps the team, fine. Don’t move him for the sake of moving him.

BWAF

By Tyger

October 28, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Hawks = 45 wins.

By wow

October 28, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

48-34. Book it.

By doc

October 28, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

i know it doesnt mean anything for most of us since all but a few probably arent interested in lines. with that said it will be something to reflect on at the end of the season.

from shultz’ article today:

2: The Hawks won 37 games last year. Bodog, an online sportsbook, just released their over/under for wins this year: 36 1/2. Somebody’s not feeling the love. what he also didnt mention is the line is the hawks finish 9th out of the playoffs and are rated the 22nd best team in the league by the bodog standard,

interesting to note even the most cynical and negative person on this blog and everyone else feels the hawks will exceed the over under number. i guess even the most negative then are considered kool aide drinking crack pipe loaded fools. heh heh, me included. i guess i am back to my pollyanna role that ando accused me of year one of this blog. with all of you as well.

By Roman

October 28, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

I’m as big a Hawks fan as the next guy, but some of these predictions can only come from years of heavy drugs.

48 wins?? That is supposed to be a joke but I may be missing the punchline.

Vegas has the over/under on Hawks wins at 36.5. The Hawks haven’t won 40+ games since 1997-98. We won 37 last season.

I think Sekou is even a bit overly optomistic with 45 wins. Improving by 8 games is a lot, but it is a ton when you don’t add any key pieces to the mix and a lot of teams in your division got better.

Prediction: 39-43

By MannyT

October 28, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

doc I recognize that some folks believe bookies are the most unbiased word in sports. Not about the team, just the cash. All that said, at either 36 1/2 or 37 1/2 on that link in addition to the Hawks were the Bobcats, Heat, Warriors, and Wizards. I think it represents a good psychological point for bettors because 37 games got us into the last playoff slot.

I do expect the Hawks to be better than the Bobcats and Heat. Depending on the injury situation, we might trickle past the Wiz ;-)

We are definitely more hopeful than average for the Hawks. I’d say the demographic of this data pool is far skewed from either normal or objective. That’s why we’re fans…right.

BWAF

By doc

October 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

it is interesting that the perspective from all here is improvement even the nay sayers. so i guess they are fans too even though many have said they were haters. bookies dont make this up to lose money but they cant play the games. they are to tempt us but they want it to be close on both sides. again last year there was a huge spread on this blog, not anymore so the “2 camps” are not that far apart or have we all gone soft and become moderates. heh heh, of course excluding those that abstained from the vote. they dont lose there ability to point out certain observations or inconsistencies and not be included in the folly they create.

By Astro Joe

October 28, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Doc, so I was thinking the other day, how all of the pundits criticize our bench. “How could that be?” I asked myself. “We appear to have 4 solid rotational players plus Solo, if his summer results in regular season contributions. They obviously are biased against the Hawks”, I concluded.

But then, I objectively asked, “why should anyone believe that journeymen like Evans and Flip are ready to make a meaningful contribution to a team vying for the playoffs. If these guys are so obviously ready to provide the needed scoring and perimeter defense off the bench, then how did they end up in Atlanta (after playing for about another 3-4+ teams)?” Basically, we’re left with the hope that Acie can overcome an uneven rookie season. That Zaza is capable of embracing his bench role. That Solo or RandMo are no longer projects but actually semi-productive bigs. And that guys who have had nomadic careers can provide stability. Oh and that the one proven bench player (Childress) won’t be missed despite his penchant for unselfish, team-oriented ball.

So when I forget all that I’ve read from Sekou this summer and strictly assess the players using their own historical data, then sure, 36.5 wins sounds about right and the overall wet blanket on our new season seems logical.

But dammit, I’ve got that hopeandexcitement thing bubbling in my shorts, so I’ll stick with my 42 wins prediction and will look forward to the season’s start tomorrow night. Screw the pundits. 1-2-3 Let’s Do It Again

By doc

October 28, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

aj, exactly and one pundit echoed that chills was a guy who didnt need the ball to score whereas all the guys on the team do i.e. no trash takers or baseline players. all the guys have highlight films, time to see how they measure up on the court rather than in ariose time.

By Ariose

October 28, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Nice Articles up by Sekou and Bradley on the Hawks page….

I still think Woodson would have had trouble dealing out the minutes for Flip, Mo, Chills, and Acie……..in and even or advantageous fahson.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By richbrave

October 28, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

It’s 7:00 p.m. HAWKS fans. Do you know where your team is.? Less than 24 for the WIZARDS and HAWKS to begin weaving the magic of the ‘08-‘09 season.

By Ariose

October 28, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Ramon, You read it right….48 wins…thats 48-34 to be exact…….and I don’t do drugs.

Doc, It’s not my fault that Chills’ highlight films stink……I’m jut being honest. More like lowlight to be truthfull.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Ariose

October 28, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

A decent review…

NAA best and worst for 08-09 season

~Sir Links A Lot~

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

40-42 is a realistic and fair prediction in my opinion.

One thing you gotta keep in mind about lines is that they are just as much an attempt to gauge public opinion as they are an attempt to accurately forecast the outcome of games. I don’t think you’re going to find any real NBA expert pick the Celtics to win only 53 games in the East, as Bodog currently has them forecast, after they won 66 last year. You gotta keep in mind that lines are set with the motivation of making money and making it as tough as possible for the bettor to make an easy pick.

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 28, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

“But then, I objectively asked, “why should anyone believe that journeymen like Evans and Flip are ready to make a meaningful contribution to a team vying for the playoffs. If these guys are so obviously ready to provide the needed scoring and perimeter defense off the bench, then how did they end up in Atlanta (after playing for about another 3-4+ teams)?””

The big thing the so-called experts are missing about the FlipMo Squad is that the Pistons probably would have kept them around if Joe Dumars wasn’t a genius at drafting players like Rodney Stuckey and Arron Afflalo outside the lottery every year. I don’t think it’s an indictment of either one of them that they ended up in Atlanta. They were valuable bench players in Detroit and in most of the other places they played, and I don’t really see why people don’t think they will be valuable contributors here.

I can understand the skepticism about Acie, Solo, Hunter and Zaza, since none of them have proven yet that they can be reliable bench players in this league. But Flip and Mo have. The experts could at least give the Hawks credit for having adequate depth in the backcourt, if not up front.

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 28, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

My favorite line from the SI preview Ariose linked to:

“The Hawks allowed seven fewer points per 100 possessions with Smith on the court last season. That was the best on-/off-court defensive impact of any player in the league.”

I hope that shuts up the haters who think J-Smoove is just a weakside shot-blocker who doesn’t have the b-ball IQ to consistently make a positive impact on the floor.

By ray

October 28, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

Najeh, I see you managed to do the name thing. Too funny! Also, excellent take on the betting side of things…

Ando, bro’ it is ON. Check your e-mail and you’ll know what I’m talkin’ about. Boooyahhh!

Woody is just slap crazy. Last year he says he just wants Mike Bibby to do whatever and if he doesn’t like what the Hawks are doing, to let Woody know. Then this offseason he says he can’t wait to get Bibby integrated and ingrained in “his” system. Now he says he just wants Bibby to be himself and do what he does. What the…??

Do we even understand how this works? Do we know what kind of game Bibby plays and how it does or doesn’t make “our” system better? What in the hell is our system anyway?

For the love of…

By ray

October 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

To heck with the experts.

On another note, read a column in nba.com about the Sixers’ Thaddeus Young, and how an early investment in playing time has paid its dividends. I can think of someone who should be taking a page out of that book…

By Ariose

October 28, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

Ummm wow I’m off………I’m pretty sure I meant NBA heh.

~Sir Links A Lot~

By ray

October 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Note how the GM stepped in, in this case, lending a “guiding” hand. And it worked. That’s what it’s gonna take…

By ray

October 28, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

Note also the individual tutelage provided by the team’s assistant coach….

By ray

October 28, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Preach it, Najeh, preach it…

By doc

October 28, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

najeh i pulled that comment out of the article a couple of blogs back and said exactly the same thing about the legion of smith hata’s.

ray, somehow philly and the blazers have found a way to get milage out of their young talent when we havent and end up with better records at the same time. that has got to end. ray, do you care to share the link or have you become complacent because you have ariose and manny t to do the heavy lifting for you?

By Najeh Davenpoop

October 28, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Danny Ferry must have been smoking the good stuff this offseason… for some reason Lorenzen Wright is not only on the Cavs’ roster but is getting minutes.

By richbrave

October 28, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

I would conjecture that “systems” are for losers, and is asymtomatic of stilted thinking. I really do see OCD at work here with the WOODEN-one. I hope for all our sakes I’m wrong and that MIKE has the flexibility of intellect to use what he has and craft a “system” that effective with whats at hand.

By Ariose

October 28, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Poop, Flip left seattle via trade request on his part…..I think his brother had just died and he wanted to be closer to home so Sund traded him to Cleveland……The signed with Detroit…..Dumars realized that the youngns needed to develop(stuckey) and that Flip Saunders wasted Murrays time there, so he traded him to Indiana(Flip let his agent know he wanted more PT).

Evans Requested a trade from Detroit because he wanted more playing time. Dumars told his agent that while he couldn’t promise Mo more playing time, If the right deal was out there he would make it happen……..Mo landed in LA didn’t get too much PT there so his agent got them to do the deal for Ariza(Someone who is younger(still developing) and doesn’t need PT right away)…..traded to Orlando(great run there, they just wanted to get younger….pietrus is 26)……..now he’s here with us….

I know…..I read a lot of articles……and DET used to be my adopted team while the Hawks were struggling back then so I know all of theit business lol…..Billups All Day!!!…money….

~Sir Links A Lot~

By cowa

October 29, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Just thought I’d throw in my 2 cents on a prediction: 43-39, 7th seed. Bibby’s signed to an extension before the trade deadline. Speedy’s atually traded at the deadline to a western contender.