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DEL.ICIO.USMorris lives, and more
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
HAWKSVILLE - Randolph Morris lives folks.
He lives.
After barely playing for most of the preseason he finally logged some significant minutes in the Hawks’ 109-103 loss to Orlando Monday night at Philips Arena.
And the reserve big man looked more than up to the task of banging with his old pal Dwight Howard and the other Magic big men.
Morris piled up eight points (on 3-for-4 shooting), three rebounds, and assist and the expected five fouls (everyone picks up fouls with Howard on the floor). Morris even had two turnovers, which is a clear indicator that he was on the floor longer than usual because he actually was out there long enough to turn the ball over a couple of times.
I have to admit, I knew Morris was going to play more minutes because Hawks coach Mike Woodson said as much during his pre-game media session (maybe Woody reads the blog and has heard our passionate pleas regarding Morris … or maybe not).
What Woodson knew is that he was going to need every foul from every one of his big men against Howard - and he was right. Twenty-two of the 32 fouls called on the Hawks Monday night were on their big men. Howard went to the line 22 times, a staggering number even for the preseason.
As for Morris, our blogfavorite son passed his test. He came in cold and showed that he’ll compete against the best when thrown into the fire. That’s what I needed to see from the big fella.
COMMUNICATION ISSUES?: One peculiar side effect of Woodson playing so many different rotations is the fact that when his starters were on the floor at the end of Monday’s game they didn’t seem to be in sync.
There were several glitches late in the game on both ends of the floor. The most glaring problem seemed to be the lack of communication that several of the Hawks addressed after the game.
“It would be a lot easier if we talk a little bit more,” Mike Bibby said. “And really I have to start with myself, but when you talk a little bit more it makes things a lot easier. And you do that instead of assuming, you know, assuming that something is going to here or there or somebody is going to be here or there. We have to do a better job of communicating out there.”
SICK AND TIRED OF EACH OTHER: As fond as the Hawks are of Orlando and the Magic are of Atlanta, both teams have seen about enough of each other already. And they’ve still got one more date to go.
The Oct. 29 regular season opener will serve as the rubber match for these two teams - the Hawks won the preseason opener for both teams in Orlando and the Magic returned the favor last night.
The preseason and regular season schedules aren’t done in concert, so these dress rehearsals have been strictly a coincidence.
But it’s given both teams a renewed appreciation for each other.
“Atlanta is a good team. They’re very athletic. They made the playoffs last year, so you have to come with your ‘A’ game when you play these guys,” Magic forward Rashard Lewis said. “They have a lot of talent on that team, especially at guard. They have an All-Star in Joe Johnson, and Josh Smith is a great player, too. You can’t sleep on them. You have to always be ready to play. And I think the Eastern Conference will be better as a whole, with Atlanta getting better and Milwaukee and Toronto making some offseason moves, making things a lot more competitive.”
Magic coach Stan Van Gundy said the Hawks are a team he and his staff have spent a lot of time watching in the offseason for several reasons, mostly because the Hawks have given them fits in the past.
“This is a good team, they’ve got a lot of ability and it’s a very, very talented team that came on that end last season,” he said, “especially when they got Bibby. He was the point guard that was sort of the missing piece for them. And everything changed around then. They had a great playoff series. It’s going to be a team that’s right there. And you’re going to have to contend with them, no question.”
IN LOVE WITH THE DEEP BALL: The Hawks’ love affair with the 3-point shot, the one that led them to victory Saturday in Charlotte when they shot the lights out of Time Warner Cable Arena, is the same love affair that led them astray Monday night.
The Hawks shot just 6-for-19 from beyond the 3-point line against the Magic, with Flip Murray and Johnson going a combined (and brutal) 4-for-14 from that distance.
On the flipside the Magic shot 9-for-17 from deep, just three more makes but a huge difference in the final outcome.
“You make a couple more of those shots, and they were good looks, and it’s a different outcome,” Johnson said. “What we can’t do is stop being aggressive in taking the ball to the basket and forcing teams to play us straight up. We just have to know when to exploit things from outside and when to switch gears and go inside and then out.”
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Comments
By BA
October 21, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
More praise from what is percieved as a better NBA team than our own. Some of those Magic quotes sound like some of the Boston quotes. It’s nice to see the Hawks garnering some respect around the league, but there’s two sides to that coin; now that the word is out Atlanta isn’t going to be sneaking up on people this year. I hope these cats understand that as hard as last season was, this year’s campaign will be more difficult for them.
By Ariose
October 21, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
Good Stuff Sekou, I’m glad to see Morris geting more PT in the preseason. Hopefully he can play a role for us in the regular season.
Sekou, Was it a case of us just missing Marvin and Mo or was the defense just that poor? Is it something we should worry about?
By Samuel
October 21, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this
Joe,
All 3 pointers are good looks. You’re freekn 24 feet from the basket. Give it up man. Take it to the whole.
yea, some interesting comments from guys with unbiased opinions. The playoffs, Mike Bibby. I guess they are just trying to butter us up.
By BA
October 21, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
Ariose, for what it’s worth, I think that like all the major sports, the preseason is too long. And I think the lapse in communication (and maybe focus) could be chalked up to that. These guys were ready to start the year a week ago. All the substitutions and fouls (and subsequent free throws, Howard had, what, forty free throws last night), the Hawks were having trouble concentrating.
By mateo
October 21, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
Mike Bibby had two “bonehead” plays that really hurt us last night. Not watching the shot clock & throwing up bad shots to end each half.
The first half blunder allowed Orlando to take a 1pt lead going into halftime. The other Sekou talked about him taking a shot with 14 seconds left.
I expect more from our starting PG - a 10 year vet making $15M per season. Let’s hope this isn’t a trend.
By Clyde
October 21, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
ROLL TIDE!!!
I saw the same ole thing last night. We really too much on the jumpshot rather than taking the ball to the hole.
ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!11
By Left knee hurts
October 21, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Will it actually be an advantage with Marvin required to sit out game 1 suspension so Woody can go with the “big” line up against Mr. Howard and company? It could be good to lose rd 2 pre-season to a SE foe. It is hard to beat the same team 3 times in a little of 2 weeks. That season opener is what matters. I saw a box score for SA from this weekend, Salim was 4-14. I’ve always thought he was a player who could shoot you into or out of any game.
By Darrin "The Vent King"
October 21, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
I was at the game last night and I too am wondering what Bibby was thinking when he hoisted that fade away to the left three point shot at the end. Its all good, I know he’ll make up for that but gheesh. There was 14 seconds left on the clock and I believe the Hawks were down two. You need to go down low and either make a higher percentage low post shot and/or get fouled and go to the line and let the defense make something happen. Then again I think he and the Hawks are just ready to get this pre-season dung over with too.
I know I am…let’s go HAWKS!!
By ray
October 21, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Y’all are gonna flip when you hear this one: Ando calls me from the game last night at halftime and tells me, “Dude, these guys look good. They’re competitive. In fact, Orlando does not look better than us.”
I’ll leave the rest for him to tell if he chooses.
Now, of course some people will be overjoyed at that fact, or at the fact that Stan Van Gundy mentioned Mike Bibby. Let’s not cook crow pies just yet. Season ain’t even started. But yeah, hopeandexcitement (my patented virus thankyou very much but everybody’s free to use it, LOL!) is running deeper than ever.
On the flip side of that coin, and I know I’m going to step on some internet toes with some of this. Between following on yahoosports.com and phone calls, here’s what I “see”:
1)Van Gundy knows we had sh!t for point guards for a while. Of course Bibby was better than we had. He was on the court, he could hit some outside shots. We haven’t had that in a minute. Rashard Lewis said we had some good talent, especially at guard. But notice who he specifically mentions: Joe and Josh. Flippin’ that around he didn’t mention big Al, which is odd considering he’s a double double against them every time.
2)In Sekou’s other article, Bibby talks about the need to put more pressure on the ball. No kidding. The pg is the tip of the spear on defense. He says if he gets going then it’ll rub off on everybody else. How nice. Looks to me like Al, Josh, and JJ are holding their own for the most part. Bibby and Marvin? Heh…
3)Yes, I’m on Bibby again. What the hell was that 3-pointer attempt with 7 damn seconds left on the shot clock for? That’s a Josh Smith mistake (from last year)! Bibby is big-time key to our success or failure in a lot of situations. Mistakes like that are for rooks and untrained aggressive youngsters. Not poised veterans.
4)Our defense sucks. Our defense sucks. Our defense sucks. Team defense is what wins games, not league-leading shot-blockers or one-on-one shut-down guys. That means everybody contributes and everybody communicates.
5)Bibby says they need to talk more. WTF??!! JJ doesn’t want to talk, Bibby ain’t talkin’ enough….who the hell is going to get this going? The whine was for more veterans (and rightfully so). They’re here. Will somebody step the hell up and start barkin’??
6)Yeah Dwight Howard is a monster. Yeah he went to the line 22 times. But he missed a ton of free throws. Howard is just about unstoppable (unless you’re Detroit). Rashard Lewis can be difficult as hell to defend. So can Turkoglu, who didn’t play last night. But Nelson, Lee, Pietrus? Not unstoppable by any stretch. No excuse. None whatsoever.
7)RandMo can provide points instantly. I saw that he had smooth, polished moves in the few minutes he played against us last year while he was with the Knicks. I say use that to our advantage. Big Fella can get some boards too, but has issues on “D”. Only one way to fix that: play him. Of course, it helps if you do these things in practice, RandMo….
8)This team is capable of winning just about any given night. I don’t see us getting blown out like we used to, especially with the combinations we can now use from our bench. But we need to finish close games. With defense. Widen the gap and get buckets when you can. If the ball handlers are getting guys like Smith and Horford the ball in closer-to-the-basket situations, then they’ll get hot. That’s when guys like Bibby, JJ, and Flip can get more uncontested perimeter shots.
9)Don’t know what happened with Law last night, but it was the only night he wasn’t shooting better than 50%. He only took 2 shots. Only thing I can think of is that they weren’t running plays where he was suppposed to do the scoring. One not so great game isn’t worrying me though. He’s having a much better preseason than the guy he’s backing up. And in Bibby’s defense, Murray didn’t shoot any better. But I’ll bet he drove to the hole every now and again…and he got 6 boards.
10)A few individual things that bug me: Josh Smith isn’t getting much done on the glass. Maybe it’s because he’s been playing alongside Al and Zaza a lot lately. I don’t know, but I don’t like it. Bibby hasn’t shot so well so far. Which makes him less effective. The reason I say this is because he also isn’t defending so well and he can’t seem to get more than 4 or 5 assists in a game. If you’re not scoring, not defending, and not gettin’ dimes…what are you doing? Not $15 million worth of work, I can tell ya that. Marvin’s been out, and he’ll be out the first game of the season. Not good. Why? Not because of the injury itself, it’s not serious. Because: Slow starts hurt him. And more importantly…Woody thinks that if you’ve been out, you need to be “reprogrammed”. Look what that did to Acie last year. Repgrammed his a$$ right out of being what he should’ve been. And Marvin has not shown so far that he takes well to that type of adversity. Hope it goes better this time around Marvin. Don’t let Woody put that Men In Black Neuralizer in your face. Any more reprogramming and you won’t know what to do with a basketball if it hits you in the face…
By Dan
October 21, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
guys
Do preseason mistakes really matter, when you are talking about a guy like Bibby? We know what he can do. Bonehead plays in some exhibition that we will not remember in a week are just not important.
Wow! Sorry I was not at the game last night. I can’t believe Morris actually got to play! Sounds like things went well.
Enough of the games that don’t count. Let’s get onto the real thing..
By ray
October 21, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
If we’re going to take it to the hole, take more inside shots, get a higher percentage shot, etc…..then our point guard needs to get that ball in to the guys who can do it. It will open up the perimeter. Either that, or take the ball inside (penetrate) and score, which will allow the pg to start dishing the ball off when defenders collapse on him.
By doc
October 21, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
OMG! heh heh
thanks for the heads up ray. i had him agree with me that the haaws are at least the seventh best team on paper to start the season. well almost .. he didnt gi into a ten minute explanation/rant of why i was wrong. just maybe it was because he was in the parking lot and had time constraints to get in to meet jhan. all blessings of life appreciated.
By terrell barron
October 21, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
I said the other day that Sund signed Morris in the offseason, so Woody BETTER get to know Morris. So maybe he is reading this blog Sekou. lol!! People laughed at me when I brought up the fact that Randolph beat up on Howard back in High School. All this kid needs is a little bit of confidence. I’ve seen him play, when there was a fire lit in his azz, so I know he can play. Albeit it was in his High School days, but still. Woody just has to re-light that fire. If he can? I hope he gets MAJOR minutes in the last couple of pre season games.
By terrell barron
October 21, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Who was that that asked me who was Morris anyways? Speak up. lol!! And Sekou, I have’nt heard much about Craig. What’s up with him? Is he going to play this year, or will he finally retire? What’s your take? And btw, if I see him sitting on that bench, in all that bling and high priced threads, that he did’nt do a ‘damn thang’ for, I’m going to scream.
By Aaron B
October 21, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Alright, I have to agree with the fact that Bibby is the floor leader here, and should be leading. That means talking, dishin dimes, and playing defense. We can’t afford to start learning how to loose again after we just learned how to win.
By Sekou K. Smith
October 21, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Craig still hasn’t seen the floor since his hamstring injury, so there isn’t much to report terrell barron.
And it was just poor defense Ariose, nothing tricky. Just crappy defense.
And Woodson was all over his team about it during practice today.
By Clyde
October 21, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Ray you said “Our defense sucks. Our defense sucks. Our defense sucks. Team defense is what wins games, not league-leading shot-blockers or one-on-one shut-down guys. That means everybody contributes and everybody communicates.”
Everybody on the Hawks doesn’t play defense so we need shot-blockers and one-on-one shut down guys. Woody has been preaching team defense for years now but it hasn’t clicked with the players (except Jsmooth). You can’t expect someone to play defense if he isn’t dedicated to it. And I’m not calling no names but from what I saw last night, we got some that are not dedicated. If you think that’s bad just wait till Marvin returns to the starting lineup.
I’m tired of yall making excuses for why the Hawks don’t need a shot-blocking center. Teams know to drive the basketball against us why? Because we got a 6’9 center that doesn’t block shots. Plain and simple. We give up too many points in the paint why? Because no one offers up any resistance (except Jsmooth).
Yall need to face the facts. This team’s weakness is in the middle. Horford can hustle but he can’t play defense against taller opponents. The scouts for the Hawks should have seen this when he constantly got drilled against taller opponents in college. We need a enforcer like Mutumbo!
Matter of fact the last time we had a winning season is when we had an enforcer in the middle.
All Mutumbo did was block shots, rebound and throw boes. He didn’t have no 10 foot jumper! He didn’t have no post moves! All he did was block shots!! He was skinny as all get out and got pushed around, but in the end he sent your shot back where it came from!!
I’m tired of folks telling us what we don’t need when we haven’t had a winning season in a decade. When we have a winning season then tell us what we don’t need.
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
By Ariose
October 21, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Thtnks Sekou, It’s good to hear Woody was on them about it. He doesn’t show too much emotion on the bench, so it’s hard to read into what he’s really concerned about as far as team performance is concerned……Besides, our defene was good up until the All-Star break last year. It would be really hard to beleive that we could regress so much just because we got Bibby and replaced Childress…..
By Ariose
October 21, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
Clyde, I say we just plug Morris in there and let him learn on the job…….of course with only one preseason game left that’s kind of a mute point now.
~Sir Links A Lot~
By doc
October 21, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
ariose, no it wouldnt. wonder if aj was that much better a defender? btw some people you dont miss their strengths until they are gone. most of the hawks we have now need the ball to score chills didnt and that is a rare commodity.
By ant banks
October 21, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
guys i have been sayin’ several times that if the hawks rebound about 40+ times per night, this will take care of the missed 3pts. don’t worry. but if we don’t hussle for rebounds for get it.
take the 3’s, but bust your butt gettin’ rebounds
By mavid
October 21, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
National media is gonna POUNCE on that Smoove-Woody story. Here it comes.
By Sautee
October 21, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
doc
Tongue in cheek again?
By ant banks
October 21, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
see, at first i was thinkin’ that the hawks did smooth wrong, but now i see why they did what they did. he too immature. why would he be slackin’ in the game anyway, then when the coach call you out you pout and sh!t. man up jigga!!
this will carry over to the season.
By doc
October 21, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
just the facts sir.
By ray
October 21, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
Clyde, believe me I hear you. There’s little doubt we could use a taller/longer guy at center. A guy who’s a solid defender and rebounder, and a good fit with Horford and the rest of our lineup. We ain’t got him, and we probably ain’t gettin’ him anytime soon. But Horford isn’t the problem. I doubt if any opposing team’s bigs (no matter what the height advantage), enjoy playing against Horford. Nor do they enjoy trying to figure out which angle or from which cloud J-Smoove is likely to descend from on the weak-side. But that ain’t the problem, is it?
Taller doesn’t guarantee “more effective” or “more talented”. Zaza is taller….is he better? How about John Edwards? Why’d we get rid of him? Horford has difficulty with taller guys, but he’s still a damn good player and damn good defender. Blaming him is not the answer. Getting rid of him is even less so, unless you’re getting an all-star caliber center in return. I’m talking a guy who’s going to make the all-star team for the next 10 years…
It’s more about who the guy at center is playing with.
Here’s the problem with the idea that a shot-blocking center is the solution to all our ills: He can’t block every shot, on every play. And if the opposing team’s center is worth a crap, every time our guy leaves him (to attempt a block on someone else’s shot), he’ll get the ball for a free layup or dunk. That’s how the game works…draw the defense, then dish it off. Our problem continues to be team defense, and it starts on the perimeter. People are driving the lane because our guards are letting them. Our forwards are, too. Where’s the ball pressure? What happened to staying in front of someone?
A point guard or lead guard who isn’t having his every move pressured can see the whole court and will make short work of a defense. Kind of like a good quarterback who is enjoying good pass-blocking. Sooner or later, he’s going to pick you apart. Most likely sooner. After all, this is basketball. No 300 lb monsters with a taste for your head. Just a 24 second clock. Ball pressure is the start.
Along with the pressure comes the contribution from your wings. These are the guys (usually shooting guard and small forward) who are cutting off the pg’s passing lanes and denying their counterparts the ball. It’s another type of ball pressure, although many wings are capable of providing on-the-ball pressure.
The post players are busy denying preferred position to their counterparts. So really, what center should be sitting in the lane, waiting for someone to drive so he can attempt a block? The idea is to take the opportunity when it comes, or to be the last resort (last line of defense)…not look for it the entire time.
We could bring in Camby, Mutombo, Sean Williams, Larry Nance, Manute Bol, whoever. Won’t make a single difference if each defensive possession begins and ends with them. They might block 3 shots a game all season Maybe 4. The may alter several others. They might foul out. In fact, that’s more likely than anything else. What they won’t do is change the entire game. No great shot-blocker controls the game without help from a team defense that is at least average. If a shot-blocker is all it took, then we’d be there already, because we have Josh Smith.
Look no further than Detroit for an example of a team that can beat you to death with defense, with the tallest guy being the 6’11 230 lb Rasheed Wallace. He’s lazy half the time, he has an attitude, and he’s got small hands (just like Tyson Chandler) for a guy his size. Yet they harassed the crap out of Dwight Howard in the playoffs last year. Made it look easy. And they’ll do it again. That’s because nobody runs all over Chauncey Billups. Nobody streaks by Rip Hamilton every play. Tayshaun Prince bothers his opponent worse than Leo Getz did Riggs and Murtaugh on Lethal Weapon. Maxiell won’t give you position. Neither will McDyess, or ‘Sheed (or the recently acquired Kwame). Wallace and the recently acquired Kwame stand at 6’11”, both the same height as Zaza. They’re the tallest guys on the team, with exception of Cheikh Sambh, who never sees the court.
Most of them can’t give you a block a game. ‘Sheed gives you less than 2 per. The team averaged around 4.82 blocks per game overall last season. Hardly astounding numbers, and less than what this team puts out. Yet, they win 50+ games a year, and give all teams the fits.
Team Defense. ‘Nuff said.
By ray
October 21, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t say that too soon Ant…
By ant banks
October 21, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
ray i hope that it doesn’t carry over to the season, but josh has shown that he is very immature and woody ain’t gonna slack up on him as the season goes on. i think that it would be betta though if a teammate called him out rather than the coach…dennis rodman was a cancer, but mike kept him in check, wes unseld kept players in check, nobody on clev clowns the team becuase of lebron, kareem wouldn’t even hug magic durin’ his rookie season, josh needs a teammate to get in his a$$ and let him no he ain’t bigger than the team.
By Lacsho
October 21, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this
Doc
Thanks for everything. I really enjoyed the talk we had. Your office has an incredible ambiance. Now I see why you’re so laid back and smooth. I look forward to future meetings at Phillips… Hell, I might have to schedule an appointment.. My wife and son really enjoyed the game.. Thanks Again…. I have mad respect for your..
Observation
Randmo has skills, but he plays too laid back for me. If this guy played with passion, he could be a problem…
Bibby, Bibby, Bibby down the stretch was horrible; he didn’t show leadership…
JJ was the truth down the stretch. You know what you get from JJ. He’s a true professional….
Acie played passive, and the guard’s played horrible defense… Matter of fact the whole team sucked on the defensive end…
I know I’m going to catch some flack for this statement, but this team needs Marvin at the three… We definitely missed him and Mo last night…
Flip is the truth. He’s definitely a problem especially when he’s posting up the other teams guards. I’m convinced he can score at will..
I’m not a ZaZa fan, but he played rather well…
Jsmoove cannot play the three. He played lousy. His defense was suspect, and he didn’t have one block shot. His consistent stat was arguing with the referee. Flip tried to calm him down, but smoove was on some other ish….
Lastly we played so so, and we still almost pulled out the win.. That makes me feel good about this team. Hopefully they’ll turn on the switch against Detroit, and leave it on for 82 games….
All in All, I had a wonderful time with my family…..
By Billy Hoyle
October 21, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
Sekou…
What were you and Sund, speaking about prior to the game last night? Anything interesting?
By ray
October 21, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
Lacsho, if you we don’t turn it on against Detroit, they’ll beat us like Ike on Tina. Either way, they’ll show us how team defense is played. They’ll expose everything, especially at pg….
Ant, he’s maturing. I don’t know if he had an issue with where he was playing or what. He’s better than this though. As for that teammate that will get in his grill about stuff….expect that to come directly from none other than Horford. Those two have a great chemistry and big Al clearly had his ear during the playoffs last season. Expect it from FlipMo too, as both guys will not tolerate lax efforts. That’s what they’re here for (as JJ says yet another “Thankyou-God” in the background…). And I’ll harp on it again…where’s the leadership from our “star” pg? $15 million, man….
By Lacsho
October 21, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
Ray
I agree, honestly Smoove is the key on defense. When Smoove exerts himself the entire team feeds off his energy. However, the guards have to put pressure on the ball, and stay in front of their man. I can see Flip stepping up vocally and pulling this team together.
Banks I feel you bruh, it’s time for Smoove to grow up. I believe we have the type of veterans that will stay in Smoove azz. He already acknowledged Flip getting on to him when he’s slipping, so hopefully they can keep him straight. Sometimes Smoove is so suspect; I’m glad Woody called him out. I’ve noticed Woody is really tinkering with this line-up; he’s truly trying to find the right chemistry.
By Ken Strickland
October 21, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Has anyone but me noticed how Josh Smith’s recent run of poor performances have coinsided with replacing Marvin at his, so called, NATURAL POSITION? It’s obvious Josh would be a mismatch for most SF in the league, but he doesn’t have to play SF to take advantage of it. Simply use baseline picks to force a switch and then take advantage of the mismatch. That way, we can take advantage of the OFF mismatches he creates without sacrificing his DEF prowess at PF.
By Sautee
October 21, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Ken
That would take”coaching”. We don’t do that here. Nice idea, though.
By terrell barron
October 21, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
I hope that money has’nt went to Smoove’s head. It’s time to grow up Josh. Dont make us regret keeping you around. When we thought of all of those offseason trade scenarios, all of your fans creamed us. Prove us wrong, man. But first I need to know if your’re the problem, or is it the Coach? Reading that story makes me think that Sund wanted you here, and Woody did’nt. Maybe thats why it took so long for them to re’sign you? If that’s the case, we’re in trouble. Maybe they just gave you the money to sell tickets? hmmmm? I sure hope not. Or maybe I’m just overeacting? There probably was’nt even a squabble? Sometimes outsiders like to make something out of nothing.
By richbrave
October 21, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
CLYDE:
Exactly why I despair for the WIZ now (BRENDEN HAYWOOD),and hope for the future (JaVALE McGEE). If SUND is smart he’d make a play for McGEE while he’s raw and under the radar. The WIZ will sink in the standings this year without HEYWOOD.
By ray
October 21, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
Lacsho, I honestly believe that Woody is purposely calling Josh out because he’s needed so much and is such a special player. And he needs to focus. As you say, he has to grow the hell up right now. And I firmly believe he will, becoming an absolute lynchpin for this team.
If others recall, Popovich did similar things with Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili early on. Phil Jackson is famous for publicly getting into his players’ heads. It’s on, and Josh knows it. I still think he’ll get plenty of motivational “tough love” from some of his more vocal and aggressive teammates as well. He’ll be fine.
Of course, some people will take this as spin, but whatever. It’s what I believe. Some will even come out of hiding to say things about Smith, despite the fact that this is just the preseason (see, that works both ways, don’t it?)
Ken, I am not the least bit surprised you took advantage of this opportunity to make that point. Touche…hee hee hee! On the flip side of that coin, Josh is too talented and too versatile to let a simple change of playing one forward position to another bother him. It’s all in his head and in his heart. Desire, desire, desire. That and taking responsibility, which is exactly what Josh must do on a whole new level now. Funny, here I am agreeing with Woody…
But seriously, it is this very desire and mature acceptance of responsibility that allowed Horford to man the center position and succeed at doing so…in his rookie year no less. Josh can take a page from that book, can he not? I expect that he will, and help lead this team to new heights.
By ray
October 21, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
I really don’t think this “squabble” is anything to be concerned with. Of course, time will prove one way or the other.
I expect some national media and certain rarely seen bloggers to hop right on it, though….
By ray
October 21, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
It is downright scary how much OJ Mayo is like Dwayne Wade. Look at their stats even, when matched up tonight. Wow. No small wonder Chris Wallace made the move he did. This guy is definitely going to push for rookie of the year….And I’m fast becoming a Memphis fan, although I liked them even back when it was Gasol and Battier…and Bryant “Big Country” Reeves (didn’t like him too much). And how about this: they have a Euro who actually likes to grab rebounds and bang in the post….Gasol’s “little” brother. Heh. Interesting.
Up in Chi-town, looks like we aren’t the only team running a 6’9/6’10” center. Drew Gooden has played a few games in a row at that spot now. That largely has to do with the fact that Tyrus Thomas is not a SF, but they just can’t keep him off the floor this year. This guy is grabbing rebounds and blocking shots like it’s going out of style. I think he finally has his head on straight (though he seemed to be coming on late last season), and is showing why he was such a high pick in the first place (though I still wouldn’t have traded Aldridge’s rights for him). He’s looking good…
By ray
October 21, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Watching Indiana giving New Orleans all they can handle, despite awesome nights from Paul and West. Think what you will, but this team looks better than advertised.
By Samuel
October 21, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
Ray,
I already pegged “The Juice” as this year’s ROY predraft. He actually reminds me of MJ. Freakish athletic ability, tremendously high basketball IQ,fundamentally sound, a commitment to the defensive end and mature as a person.
Memphis will be very exciting.
Chicago SUX. No other way of putting it. Vinny wont have all that pretty hair by the Allstar Break. They have absolutely no one who can put the ball in the hoop. I can’t see how they refused to give Gordon his money. They can’t shoot worth a shi_. No way this team finishes ahead of the Hawks.
Ando, you must have missed my post.
“Can I get Some of That?”
By doc
October 21, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
ray, pacers are a team that is intriguing. been saying it all along and wondering if bird was going to be able to put it back together again.
lascho, lad they did enjoy. look forward to seeing more of you and the guys. you now know where i be.
By ray
October 21, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
Derrick Rose is rippin’ Dallas a new one all by himself. 27 points, 7 assists. Scary…Jason Kidd must be hating life. First Chris Paul, now this kid….
I get the feeling Charlotte is not going to really be better this year. Maybe a bit better, but not significantly enough. Larry Brown can be a hell of a coach when he wants to be, one of the best. But in the last few years, he’s just been an old crank. Already he’s whining about his roster and what not. Should’ve quit buggin’ His Airness to pick Brevin Knight Part Two and taken Brook Lopez. By the way, Lawrence Frank sends yet another fruit basket for that one…
Larry Brown. Master Destructo when he wants to be. The ‘Cats aren’t better than us and we should punish them every time to prove it.
By McNasty
October 22, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
Maaan, Y’all need to grow up. It’s obvious that smoove knows he’s playing poorly and is putting a lot of pressure on himself in order to live up to the expectations of that fat contract….JJ said that was the case with him three years ago.
And y’all need to lay off him and let him play his game……you guys/the media always bringing his contract up is the problem…..he hears that ish and now he’s getting like salim a few years ago…always p** and whiny whever the game isn’t going his way….lay off, he’ll figure it out.
You know it’s funny, y’all all talk about how marvin needs to step up his rebounding and whatnot, well Smoove ain’t playing his position any better than Marvin. Like Woody said the SG, ans SF positions are have the best players manning them night in and night out……in case you haven’t noticed, Smoove doesn’t have that kind of lateral quickness to keep up with the faster SF’s in the leauge(Like a Caron Butler).
You guys act like Childress posted Gaudy rebounding numbers at the SF position(just a modest 5 and marvin had like 6.7 or something…..and i’m referring to when chills held down the starting SF pot full-time). Look SOMEBODY has to deferr and on OUR TEAM usually the SF has to sacrifice stats. On other teams it’s different(LeBron in cleveland)
Also the swithches on defense for a small forward as opposed to a PF is different. The SF doesn’t switch big(What Smoove is used too) the have to stay to the peremeter. For a guy like Smith who is used to being in the paint it’s hard to stay away……he’ll gamble, and he’ll loose. But he’ll lear and get better at it. It’s not like he plays there full time.
The same thing happend to AK47 when he swithched from PF to SF. His numbers dropped. You can’t get those rebounds b/c you have to cover you man who is sprinting down the court for the outlet pass…..SF’s aren’t always in the paint like that.
Lamar Odom has the same problem……and they’ve been playing the position for years……he’s only doing this in the preseason, and personally I think it’s going to hurt him b/c he’s no banging down low where he’ll be for the duration of the season.
Peace…
By Clyde
October 22, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
But Ray since Woody has been here he has been preaching team defense. When has this team proven they can do it?
By hawkguy7
October 22, 2008 2:51 AM | Link to this
By hawksguy7
October 22, 2008 2:55 AM | Link to this
By Astro Joe
October 22, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
Doc, great point about the team having guys who need the ball to score. Childress was the guy who often converted those interior passes into easy buckets… thus his ridiculously high field goal percentage. Sekou talked about the lack of assist in a previous blog. I think the 2 are related. I haven’t watched any games, but my belief is that Flip isn’t likely to be on the receiving end of many assists… he’s more likely to create his own shot. There is no doubt that every team needs both types, those who can play without the ball, find open spaces and convert east buckets. And those who can create a quality shot out of nothing more than an isolation play or post-up. Me thinks that having a bench featuring both Chill and Flip would have been the ideal situation.
By Astro Joe
October 22, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
Maybe Stern could introduce Belkin to Johnson? Oh and who’s predicting the Bobcats finish ahead of the Hawks?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-bobcats102008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
By smartguy
October 22, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
Woodson still sucks. Get ready for the early-December talk of firing his sorry butt.
By ray
October 22, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
Joe….we’ve kinda been over that one a few times, haven’t we? Thanks to management (and I’m blaming Gearon, not Sund) that one got flubbed and we don’t have Chill. End of story…for us unfortunately.
McNasty, you make some good points. However, I disagree with the idea that Smoove doesn’t have much lateral quickness. He does, and he has length as well. He may or may not be as quick as a guy like Butler, but then why take 3 very fast steps when 2 slightly slower, but larger ones will suffice? Dude doesn’t block so many shots from the weakside because he’s slow on the lateral movement, I can tell you that…
And he’ll be fine. I just believe it. If it’s proven that he plays better at PF, so be it. But if the team needs him to play at SF, then he needs to man up to the challenge. I think he can. I think he will. If it’s necessary. But it may not be the best idea. That, I put on Woody, ‘cause it’s his decision and judgement.
I don’t know, Sam. Vinny will definitely encounter a great deal of stress, as would any first time head coach. However, he’s in a better situation than Woody was when he stepped in. Vinny has two top tier assistant coaches that have both played the head coach game. Woody still doesn’t have that, in my opinon, though he’s got a couple good guys. Chicago still has some nice pieces and useable assets. I kinda understand why they didn’t give Gordon big money though. He’s a hell of a scorer for now, but he’s still a guy who has to come off the bench because the investment is so limited. He’s one dimensional. Thing is, they offered him $50 million more than a year ago!! If you ask me, Gordon is the fool….
And don’t look now, but rookie Derrick Rose ripped Kidd and the Mavericks last night for 30 points and 7 assists. And he did some of his best work on them late in the 4th quarter, where the Bulls rallied and ended up winning the game (they spent half the game being down by double digits). The kid is coming on fast, and damn does he have some speed.
It won’t be an easy call, but you could be right on the money Samuel. Juice looks good. Real good.
By ray
October 22, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
Heh. Joe, I read that article as well. Not quite similar to our situation, yet in some strange ways, just as dysfunctional.
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
Nice little 2008-09 Atlanta Hawks Preview by the Seattle Post
Ray, I hear you. I know he’ll be fine, I just felt like people were overreacting without considering all of the factors first. But the blow up was defenetly unnecessary on his part.
We don’t need that in Detroit. Lord knows the ref’s already have their hands full with Sheeds big mouth……The refs might just take out their fustration on Josh instead of Rasheed lol. Smoove just needs to settle down and stop trying to make homerun plays on defense.
The equvalent of a Block on the peremter would probably be a steal…….He’s probably just getting beat because he reaching and then he has to foul…..but then again, i’m not there so what do I really know….
By Astro Joe
October 22, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
Ray, our ownership debacle is old hat now. My guess is that the players have accepted it as a way of life, kind of like Atlanta traffic and scoreboard problems at Phillips Arena. I’m not sure that the Bobcats are used to the tri-fecta of a cheap owner, an absentee exec and a coach who routinely tears down his players. Oh and add to that the injury virus that almost always wipes out one of the team’s top 5-7 players and it’s just a recipe for disaster.
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Do you guys agree with why Joe Johnson wasn’t included in the Fanhouse to 50 NBA players list??
I agree with their assesment of joe but he’s still should be in the to 50 regardless…..
~Sir Links A Lot~
By The Truth
October 22, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
After reading Sekou’s article about Woody “calling out” Josh after a practice, I hope he gave more than just a speech. I see that act by Woody of “grand-standing” to the media as a preemptive CWA to his new boss. I say that because it’s a bit too early for that kind of behavior. He should be teaching more and preaching less during preseason period. These players need to be taught the fundamentals through trial and error. That is what the preseason games are all about. These players will not grasp the fundamentals (for example) of sound defense by just flashing a championship ring and giving speeches and calling out players. I wish Woody would take a more cerebral technician approach instead of the “drama-queen” political approach. The players will never correct the errors of their ways in this manner. Why is it that some teams can acquire an average player and turn him into “blue chip” and some teams can acquire a “blue chip” player and turn him into average. The difference (most of the time) is the coach. If Woody is trying to set the tone for his team off-line to focus that’s acceptable but to play to the media during a practice session in preseason that’s another agenda.
By The Truth
October 22, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
*Correction***
After reading Sekou’s article about Woody “calling out” Josh after a practice, I hope he gave more than just a speech. I see that act by Woody of “grand-standing” to the media as a preemptive “CYA” to his new boss. I say that because it’s a bit too early for that kind of behavior. He should be teaching more and preaching less during preseason period. These players need to be taught the fundamentals through trial and error. That is what the preseason games are all about. These players will not grasp the fundamentals (for example) of sound defense by just flashing a championship ring and giving speeches and calling out players. I wish Woody would take a more cerebral technician approach instead of the “drama-queen” political approach. The players will never correct the errors of their ways in this manner. Why is it that some teams can acquire an average player and turn him into “blue chip” and some teams can acquire a “blue chip” player and turn him into average. The difference (most of the time) is the coach. If Woody is trying to set the tone for his team off-line to focus that’s acceptable but play to the media during a practice session in preseason that’s another agenda.
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
OK, I’m posting ESPN.com Scouting for our players….
Joe Johnson
2007-08 season: I don’t know if he was exhausted or just had a minor injury, but Johnson had a two month stretch in the middle of the year when he couldn’t get out of his own way, and that’s why his overall numbers were well below those he posted in 2006-07.
I like the exhaustion theory better. Johnson averaged nearly 42 minutes a game in November and December, with nearly every play running through him. Then, not surprisingly, he hit a wall in January. From then ‘til the All-Star break he was a heavy-legged version of his usual self, averaging only in the high teens while barely breaking 40 percent from the floor, and committing nearly three turnovers a game despite taking substantially fewer shots.
The combination of the All-Star break and the trade for Mike Bibby seemed to ease his burden considerably, and from then through the end of the year he was fine. After the break Johnson averaged 23.2 points per game on 47.5 percent shooting, with dramatically better 3-point shooting; notably, his “energy” stats (blocks, steals, rebounds) increased sharply, too.
That midyear cold stretch knocked Johnson’s TS% below the average for shooting guards, but he did finish eighth at the position in pure point rating. For the year, he was dramatically worse on long 2s in particular, dipping from 43.6 percent a year earlier to just 36.9 percent. He did, however, shoot a career-best 83.4 percent from the line.
Scouting report: Johnson doesn’t play with a lot of flair, but he’s a very effective offensive player because he combines a fantastic outside shot with great ballhandling ability for his size. Though he isn’t particularly shifty, the threat of his jumper forces opponents to play him close and opens driving lanes, and at 6-7, 235 he has the size and strength to finish plays once he gets a step.
He’s an excellent catch-and-shoot guy but doesn’t get many chances because he has to create so much of Atlanta’s offense himself; instead, nearly all his jump shots come off the dribble in screen-and-roll plays.
Johnson is a solid defender thanks to his size and decent feet, though he’s had to pick his spots since coming to Atlanta and usually doesn’t guard the opponent’s top perimeter threat until late in games. It’d be nice to see him give up the body a bit more — he only took seven offensive fouls last season, mirroring a team-wide aversion to taking charges.
2008-09 outlook: I’m more optimistic about Johnson’s year than the projections are, because I think a lot of his midseason struggles were the result of overuse — a problem that should be corrected since Bibby is around to help with the ballhandling and initiating the offense. He’s 27, so superstardom isn’t in the cards, but Johnson already has made two All-Star teams, and if the Hawks don’t run him into the ground he’s capable of making multiple returns.
Most similar at age: Michael Finley
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Marvin Williams Jr.
2007-08 season: Ask a friend to make a list of the game’s top mid-range jump shooters, and see how long it takes for this guy’s name to come up. No, he isn’t famous for it yet like Richard Hamilton or Sam Cassell, but Williams was one of the league’s elite mid-range shooters last year.
Actually, for a jump shooter his stat line was really deceiving. Only one small forward took fewer 3-pointers per field-goal attempt than Williams, and only seven had a higher rate of free-throw attempts per field-goal attempt. Based on those numbers you’d think he was a lumbering post player, but he’s a jump shooter. Really, I swear.
In fact, nearly half of his attempts were long 2-pointers, and only three players in all of basketball — Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady and Travis Outlaw — took more long 2s than Williams. He made a healthy 45.4 percent of them, the best mark of any player in the top 10 in attempts, and only Portland’s Outlaw had a greater proportion of his attempts come from this distance. (See chart).
The mid-range shooting, as well as scrapping the 3s, helped improve his TS%, and add nearly two points to his 40-minute scoring rate. That, in turn, made him a decent starting NBA small forward in his third pro season.
Scouting report: Williams’ two high-caliber skills are outstanding quickness for his size and his ability to hit mid-range Js off the catch. The threat of the jumper is the reason he drew so many free-throws, as he could shot fake and easily get a step on defenders. He’s also become much more aggressive off the dribble when defenders crowd him, and is a threat as a finisher in transition. Though he’s not a particularly deceptive dribbler, his quickness allows him to beat defenders on straight line drives with either hand.
Defensively, Williams’ quickness is also an asset. He often guards the opponent’s top scorer, and while he doesn’t have the bulldog mentality of a stopper, his combination of height and quickness is a pretty good package. It also makes him a strong defender in switches. He has a thin frame, however, and if things get physical he’s not inclined to push back.
2008-09 outlook: The departure of Josh Childress could help Williams’ per-game numbers quite a bit. Last year Childress often finished games in his place, holding Williams to 34 minutes per game, but those could move up closer to 38 with Childress gone.
We can also expect some incremental improvement from Williams, given that he’s only 22 and still learning how to put his combo of mid-range shooting and quickness to its best use. However, fans will have to wait until November to see him. Williams was suspended for the opening game for his uncharacteristic open-court takedown of Boston’s Rajon Rondo in Game 7 of last season’s playoffs.
Most similar at age: Al Harrington
By Melvin
October 22, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
I think the recent Josh and Woody dispute is minor. Give Josh some credit, he did take responsibility to Woody calling him out for playing poorly. Josh will be ok, just like Woody said.
Ray, I watch the Bulls/Mavs game last nite and DRose was doing his damage in the 4th while the Mavs had all of their staters on the bench. Mav starters sat the bench for the entire 4th after building a 23pt lead in the 3rd. Not trying to take anything away from Rose play, but just wanted to point out the JKidd was not on the court.
Which brings me to a point, I would like to see Woody reduce the mins for our starters in the preseason…
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
Josh Smith
2007-08 season: Smith is an All-Star caliber talent, and might have been tabbed for the game last season if somebody had grabbed him by the lapels and shaken him while yelling “STOP TAKING OUTSIDE SHOTS,” and not quit until he agreed.
There are worse shooters in the league than Smith, but they know it and don’t shoot. Smith is a fairly bad shooter but converts just frequently enough that it encourages him to keep launching, so any time he’s left open from outside he fires away. Let’s check out the results, shall we?
Smith made 30.4 percent of his long 2-pointers last season, the second-worst mark in the league among players with at least 100 attempts. At least there was symmetry to it: on 2-pointers that weren’t layups, he was the worst player from the left side of the floor (28.0 percent) and the second-worst on the right side (29.1 percent); if we include all 2-pointers that weren’t layups, only two players were worse than his 28.9 percent, and Smith had more than three times as many attempts as either of them.
In fact, among players with at least 150 attempts on non-layup 2-pointers he was the only one to make fewer than 30 percent. It’s not like he was having an off year either — Smith only made 30.6 percent of his non-layup 2-pointers the year before.
Wait, there’s more. Smith also took 99 3-pointers and made just 25 of them. That was — you guessed it — the worst percentage of any player who attempted at least 80.
The itchy trigger from outside detracted from what otherwise was an outstanding season. Smith was so good in transition and on the drive that he posted a decent TS% in spite of himself, and did it while creating more shots and making fewer turnovers than the year before. He was ninth among power forwards in usage rate, 14th in free-throw attempts per field-goal attempt and 12th in steals per minute.
And then there’s the shot-blocking. Smith has great hops and timing and ranked second in the league in blocks per game, as well as second among all power forwards in blocks per minute.
In addition, Smith drew 38 offensive fouls last season, easily the best on the Hawks and the 14th-best in the league. While some of those were legitimate charging fouls, a great many were on wipe-aways by shooters who were surprised to find Smith’s long arm hovering above them.
Scouting report: The left-handed Smith has filled out and is now a legit power forward at 6-9, 235 pounds. He isn’t a great ball handler but has outstanding speed for his size; as a result he can often push his rebounds up court for a dribble or two and get a quick transition situation started. And of course he’s fantastic on the business end of alley-oops thanks to his length and leaping ability.
Smith has a quickness edge against most power forwards and is effective taking them off the dribble from the high post, although he goes left almost every time and is prone to losing the ball in traffic. He also is beginning to develop a low-post game, one that’s mostly seen against undersized defenders.
Smith’s defensive fundamentals have improved tremendously, albeit from a very low base. He still will get lost off the ball and leaves his feet too quickly going for shot blocks. While the rest of his D isn’t anywhere near the level of his shot-blocking skill, he’s clearly a plus on that end.
2008-09 outlook: Smith signed a five-year, $58 million offer sheet with Memphis that the Hawks matched; though some other restricted free agents got larger total deals, on a per-year basis Smith is making as much as any of them.
And with good reason. Though he has maturity issues to work through, Smith is an All-Star in the making, and it appears not even his shot selection can keep him from this destiny. It’s easy to forget how young he still is — if he’d gone to college this would be his rookie year. Seen in that light, the ill-advised jumpers and his clashes with Mike Woodson are part of those growing pains.
Most similar at age: Tracy McGrady
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
Al Horford
2007-08 season: Not familiar with the concept of rookies already knowing how to play, Hawks coaches reacted to Horford as if they’d seen a unicorn. He was exactly what the Hawks needed — a guy who could do the dirty work up front, knew where he was supposed to be, and didn’t care how many touches he got — and as a result he finished second in Rookie of the Year voting.
Horford’s a natural power forward but he played center all year and played it fairly well, highlighted by his finishing 16th among centers in rebound rate. While the rest of his numbers were in the middle of the pack at his position, that fact alone was a huge improvement for Atlanta. That he did this at 21, while playing out of position, speaks well for his future development.
Scouting report: Horford’s biggest limitation at this point is his mechanical post game. He doesn’t have a strong go-to move from the block and nothing about it seems instinctive. He also has a passable mid-range game, shooting a line-drive J with a high release, and that could become more of a weapon as he develops.
Horford can handle the ball very well for his size, often starting up court with his own rebounds before getting it to a guard. He’s also a good passer who will be very effective passing out of double-teams if he can ever get to the point where he commands them.
Defensively, he has the size to bang with centers and strong defensive fundamentals, but at 6-10, 245 pounds his natural position appears to be power forward. Alas, with the scarcity of true centers on the Hawks’ roster it appears he’s going to be playing the middle for some time. He’s an outstanding defensive rebounder but not a particularly deft shot-blocker.
2008-09 outlook: With one year under his belt, the hope is that Horford can build on his accomplishments by refining his post game and taking a more active role in the offense. His splits show he was far more effective offensively in the second half of the year, so that’s a good omen for the coming year.
Additionally, Horford only played 31 minutes a game last season. Fantasy players should take note of that, because there’s a good chance the number increases to the high 30s this year. If so, that fact alone should generate a healthy increase in his numbers.
Most similar at age: Chris Wilcox
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
Mike Bibby
2007-08 season: Bibby’s gentle decline continued apace, as his free-throw rate completely evaporated — he earned half as many per game as the year before and ranked in the bottom third of point guards in free-throw attempts per field-goal attempt. He also lost three points off his 40-minute scoring rate, and largely because of the free-throw decline his TS% fell, too. Additionally, he missed 34 games with a thumb injury after missing only two over the previous five seasons.
Especially after the midseason trade to Atlanta, Bibby seemed content to be a spot-up 3-point shooter and facilitator. He took nearly half his shots from beyond the arc and had a much higher assist ratio than he’d ever posted in Sacramento.
The other interesting part about Bibby’s season was his overwhelming preference for the left side of the floor. He took 42.7 percent of his 2-point shots from the left side, second only to Sam Cassell, and had the greatest difference between right and left in all of basketball — nearly twice as many tries coming from the left side. He made more shots from the left, too — 42.1 to 38.5 percent — so there was some method to his madness. And his attempts were just as staggered if you include 3-pointers.
Scouting report: Bibby has a reputation as an indifferent defender, though he did draw 12 offensive fouls in 33 games with the Hawks. However, both Atlanta and Sacramento defended much better when he was off the court. Because he’s relatively small for the position and doesn’t possess outstanding quickness, this end of the floor will always be somewhat problematic for him.
Offensively, he’s a deadly 3-point threat who is as comfortable firing off the dribble as he is off the catch. He prefers to operate on the left side and likes to go baseline from there, although often he’s looking to pass in that situation. Otherwise, he likes to use a quick dribble left away from the pick-and-roll to get free for a mid-range jumper. Though he’s not a true drive-and-kick point guard, he doesn’t dominate the ball either — he just moves it along if nothing’s there for him.
2008-09 outlook: Bibby enters his contract year as the Hawks’ starting point guard, but if Atlanta gets off to a slow start there’s a real possibility he could be moved again for another team’s playoff run. It’s worth noting that his numbers in Atlanta were much better than in Sacramento, so it’s possible he may stem the declines of the past two seasons. In that event, he’s still a quality player who can average nearly a point every two minutes without dominating the ball, and his long-range shooting could give a big boost to a deep-pocketed contender this spring.
Most similar at age: David Wesley
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Maurice Evans
2007-08 season: Evans morphed into a classic high-efficiency, low-usage player after an early-season trade to Orlando liberated him from the end of the Laker bench. He had the lowest turnover ratio among shooting guards and shot a career-best 38.8 percent on 3-pointers, and his 48.1 percent mark on 2s was also among the best at his position.
His overall numbers would have been more sparkling had he drawn fouls, but Evans took a puny 1.0 per game and ranked 55th among the league’s 63 shooting guards in free-throw attempts per field-goal attempt. Even when he finished at the basket — and he did finish well, making 60.7 percent in the immediate basket area — he did it without drawing contact.
Evans also ranked in the bottom 10 at his position in usage rate, which is why his overall PER is so low. Additionally, he had a very odd rebounding disparity. Evans ranked second among shooting guards in offensive rebound rate, but only 58th on the defensive glass.
Scouting report: Evans has become a consistent 3-point shooter, especially from the corners — over the past two years he’s at 40.9 percent from either corner, but 28.2 percent from the wings and straight on. He’ll hang out there and wait for his chance in the half court, and if he doesn’t get the rock he’ll crash the boards hard for a follow-up.
Though Evans is an excellent athlete, he’s a poor ball handler with little elusiveness, so nearly everything he does is off a catch or just one dribble. However, he’s a good finisher in transition and can power up over defenders around the basket.
Evans is a solid, if unspectacular, defender who often guarded the opposition’s best perimeter threat while he was with the Magic. That they let him go to sign Mickael Pietrus for three times the money is perhaps an indication that he wasn’t as successful as they’d hoped; Orlando gave up more than five points per 48 minutes more with Evans on the floor.
However, his career track record is better than those numbers indicate, and there are few obvious weaknesses here. Evans isn’t an ace, but he’s strong, a good leaper and rarely gambles, and can defend both wing positions.
2008-09 outlook: Evans signed a two-year, $7 million deal with the Hawks, where he’ll be the sixth man and be counted on to stretch defenses with his 3-point shot. Though he won’t make up for the Josh Childress debacle, getting him was a nice recovery. He’s a good fit in Atlanta because he can get out and run with the Hawks’ young guys when he’s not spotting up in the corner, and because Atlanta needs another decent wing defender.
Evans will probably play a ton of minutes, too, given how spotty Atlanta’s depth is, so let me throw a quick heads-up to fantasy players in need of 3-pointers. Just don’t necessarily expect him to shoot quite as sizzling a percentage as he did a year ago.
Most similar at age: Raja Bell
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Flip Murray
2007-08 season: OK, here’s a quick test. I’ll give you nine names, and you tell me which one doesn’t belong. Ready? Here they are: Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Baron Davis, Allen Iverson, Flip Murray, Carmelo Anthony, Dirk Nowitzki, LeBron James and Joe Johnson.
Tough one, huh? Murray isn’t an All-Star like those other eight players, but he jacks up shots like one — those eight other gentlemen were the league’s only players to have a higher usage rate last season.
Unfortunately, he’s far less efficient with the possessions he uses. Murray ranked in the bottom quarter of the league’s point guards in TS%, assist ratio and turnover ratio; in other words, few were better at manufacturing empty trips. That he ranked 66th in pure point rating isn’t a big surprise — he’s a 2 in a 1’s body — but more troubling is the wayward shooting. He hit 31.7 percent on 3s and 69.4 percent from the line, with both numbers being consistent with his career norms.
Scouting report: Murray has decent quickness and can do a solid job at the defensive end. He does especially well against smaller, quicker 2s that can’t overwhelm him with size. He can get caught in bad match-ups at the 2 because he gives up inches, but it happens less often at the point, where at least he usually has a height advantage to fall back on.
At 6-3 with a good first step, Murray is capable of getting past his man and into the paint for short-range shots. However, he’s not as adept at finishing what he starts. He has a shoot-first mentality and will force shots and make bad decisions when he gets in traffic; additionally, because his jumper comes and goes, defenders often lay off and play him for the drive.
2008-09 outlook: Murray signed a one-year deal with the Hawks for $1.5 million, where he’ll battle for the backup point guard spot with Acie Law. His shoot-first tendencies might not be such a bad thing on an Atlanta second unit that will be desperate for scoring, but he’s going to need to tone it way down when he’s sharing the court with the other starters.
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
Acie Law
2007-08 season: Here’s one Law that doesn’t have long arms — he didn’t block a shot all season and had the fifth-worst rebound rate in basketball. What vexed the Hawks more was his inability to score. Law shot only 40.1 percent, made just seven 3-pointers the entire season, and had a below-average free-throw rate; in addition he was almost as bad on long 2-pointers (31.5 percent) as he was on 3s. All told he was 65th among the league’s 71 point guards in TS%.
That’s particularly damning in his case because he was drafted more as a scorer than a passer. Law’s pure point rating was in the bottom quarter of point guards and his turnover ratio in particular was way too high for a secondary player.
Take it all together and he had the third-worst PER at his position — not the kind of impact the Hawks were hoping to get from a 22-year-old rookie who, theoretically, should have been in position to contribute more quickly than other first-rounders. To add insult to injury, he was selected one spot ahead of Thaddeus Young and four ahead of Rodney Stuckey — a final sendoff to Hawks fans from departed GM Billy Knight.
Scouting report: While Law’s rookie year was disastrous, he does have some tools. He’s 6-3 and fairly quick for his size, though not a leaper or finisher. Right now his biggest weakness is a reluctance to pull the trigger when he’s left open on the perimeter — something that happened often last year. He shot decently from outside in college, and if he can become a credible pro shooter that should open more driving lanes and allow his offensive game to flourish.
Defensively, I’ve seen worse. Law isn’t a great athlete and as a rookie took his lumps on occasion, but he has good size for the point and decent quickness, and in time he should be decent at that end.
2008-09 outlook: The Hawks have basically handed Law the backup point guard job in spite of his poor rookie year, so he’ll be given every opportunity to justify where he was selected in the draft. It all comes down to the J — if he improves his jumper he’ll likely score enough to be a passable backup, but otherwise he’s really going to struggle.
Most similar at age: Daniel Ewing
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Zaza Pachulia
2007-08 season: Pachulia became an unlikely hero for Hawks fans after his jawing session with Kevin Garnett in the playoffs. But the truth is, he had a terrible season, clashing with Mike Woodson while seeing his scoring numbers take a serious dive. Missing 20 games with assorted injuries didn’t help matters either.
Though Pachulia still drew fouls at a high rate, ranking eighth among centers in free-throw attempts per field-goal attempt, that was about all he did well offensively. His shooting mark slumped to 43.7 percent, ranking 60th among the league’s 65 centers, and his turnover ratio ballooned to the 10th-worst at his position.
Scouting report: Pachulia had been a very effective high-post center up until last season, particularly from the right elbow, using his low center of gravity and good quickness for his size to beat opposing centers off the dribble and draw fouls. He’s a quality rebounder too, and can hit a 15-footer if left open — especially from his preferred perch in the left corner.
Defensively, Pachulia doesn’t bring much to the table. Though he’s willing to be physical against post players, he had the fifth-worst rate of blocks per minute among centers and isn’t a very active help-side defender. He also fouls way too much, with a rate of 5.9 per 40 minutes that put him in the bottom quarter among centers.
2008-09 outlook: Pachulia’s odds of regaining the starting job are slim, but as he enters his contract year he’ll have plenty of chances to prove last season was just an off year and not the start of a permanent decline. Atlanta appears woefully thin in the frontcourt once again, which means Pachulia should be the primary backup at both center and power forward and see about 20 minutes a night off the pine. Given his relative youth (though most observers believe he’s not as young as he’s listed), he has a good chance of bouncing back.
Most similar at age: Kwame Brown
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Randolph Morris
2007-08 season: Despite the Knicks’ euphoria over signing Morris in the spring of 2007, they felt no compunction to actually play him. He appeared in only 18 games and played miserably, with a high free-throw rate being the lone positive. In keeping with the Knicks’ Isiah-era tradition of stunting player development, he wasn’t even sent to the D-League.
Scouting report: As a 6-11 post player, Morris’ most concerning number as a pro is 8.3. That’s his rebounds per 40 minutes in the NBA, and it’s rather poor for a man of his size. He’s also a poor foul shooter (16-for-35 as a pro), which is unfortunate because drawing fouls on the low block seems to be his best attribute.
2008-09 outlook: Morris signed with Atlanta on a two-year deal for the minimum; since he’s big, he’s 22, and he had some collegiate success, it’s not a bad risk. Morris is also from Atlanta and played with Josh Smith in high school, which may have some secondary benefit; certainly leaving the Knicks’ circus will help too.
He’ll battle Zaza Pachulia for the backup center job, and while he’ll probably lose that contest, he figures to see some action as a much-needed big body in the Hawks’ dangerously thin frontcourt.
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
Solomon Jones III
2007-08 outlook: Jones took a step back in his sophomore season, playing only 140 minutes and not playing them particularly well. Yet the Hawks didn’t send him down to the D-League once, continuing Atlanta’s long-held reluctance to send players down. Sure, it didn’t help that their affiliate is in Anaheim (because the D-League is so west-heavy, many eastern teams have affiliates on the other side of the country), but Jones’ raw offensive game seemed a perfect candidate for some seasoning in the minors. Instead his year was basically wasted.
Scouting report: A slender shot-blocker with a limited offensive arsenal, Jones has a decent touch around the basket and can run the floor, but lacks strength and coordination. He can’t handle the ball or shoot it from distance, and with his high base and lack of strength his post game is nonexistent.
2008-09 outlook: Because he’s under contract and the Hawks don’t want to spend any money on their bench, Jones figures to have a spot on an NBA roster for another season. However, he’s no longer eligible to go to the D-League and shapes up as the fourth-string center for the parent club, which means it could be another year of watching and waiting.
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
All of those reviews were coutesey of Hollinger from ESPN.com
I actually E-Mailed him about JJ’s mid-season injury and fatigue woes…i’m sure others did as well…looks like he was listening….
By ant banks
October 22, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
solo III. that’s funny!!
By ant banks
October 22, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
ariose i appreciate the updates, but i am a little skeptical about readin’ folks opinion. point and case, last yr. the hawks were supposed to finish 15th and not make playoffs. the falcons were 15th on espn power rankin’ and dallas was 1st. now dallas is 15th and the falcons have improved.
im’ jus’ waitin’ on the season to begin. in the words of herman edwards, “that’s why we play the game!!”
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Ant, Yeah i’m ready for the season too. Hollinger is wrong about his projections on some of our bench players(and the positions they will play……Flip at SG not Point.). Of course he’s not paying attention to their offseason improvements like we are……can’t wait until Tuesday on TNT Lakers and Blazers…….get that popcorn ready!!!!
On another note, I REALLY hope Bibby resurrects his career this season……for his sake and ours.
It’s funny how Hollinger views Acie’s potential success this year solidifying his future backup role and most on this blog see his potential success this year solidifying his starting PG role for years to come……if he throws up a couple more goose eggs I might have to side with our ESPN pal (acie did it once in summer leage and now once in the preseason). It’s probably nothing to worry about though……but I will say that the only time Salim thre up a goose egg was when he didn’t play……speaking of which, the spurs play tonight(just thoght i’d slip that in there) anyhoo….
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
Hollinger had a much more positive view of Marvin’s game than us Hawksville residents do.
But Like in that FanHouse report on JJ that said JJ looks better on the court than his stats would suggest, Marvin is the reverse. His stats actually look better than his play on the court would suggest.
In Marvin’s defense, he does have considerably better stats than the more famous but equally underrated Tayshaun prince………let’s compare.
TP:
PPG: 13.2 RPG: 4.9 APG: 3.3 SPG: .5 BPG: .4 FG%: .448 FT%: .768 3pt%:.363 MPG:33
Age: 28
MW
PPG: 14.8 RPG: 5.7 APG: 1.7 SPG: 1 BPG: .4 FG%: .462 FT%: .822 3pt%:.100 MPG:34
Age: 22
…..Based on the stats, if i’m the GM i’m gettng an extension offer ready to present to Marvin’s agent Right now…..I’m just Sayin’
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
Marvin also stands at 6’9 245lbs
Prince is 6’9 215lbs
Price has been at his ceiling for years whereas Marvin is nowhere near his prime yet…..I’m just sayin’…….Ricks a smart guy hehehehe….
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Tuesday in practice Salim aqggrivated his groin strain AGAIN……….but he paricipated in Wednesday’s shootaround and they say he could play tonight….I hope he’s good to go.
By ray
October 22, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Some very interesting reviews. And there are some very reasonable explanations for some of Mr. Hollinger’s “concerns.”
Notice how he says that Mo Evans does not make up for the Josh Childress Debacle, not that Mo Evans doesn’t make up for Childress himself. There’s a difference there that any person should be able to understand, eh?
As for Law, we see a different guy altogether this preseason, do we not? I think that explanation should be obvious…although I can’t say too much about not picking Stuckey. He’s a stud. An obvious stud.
Very interesting what he had to say about Josh Smith. Also interesting that he calls him a legit PF. Hey, if he plays better there…who would I be to argue? Notice I said if he plays better there, not well, if Hollinger says he plays better there.
As for Bibby, he’s got him pegged. And Mo Evans? I’m still wondering where people expected Evans to get all these rebounds when he started only half the season, and that at SG, with a very tall frontline behind him? Quit shooting the guy for not doing something he didn’t have to do….
By ray
October 22, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Ariose, if we’re going to afford Marvin some leniency, then why not Acie? So he throws up a couple of goose eggs, one in the preseason and one in the summer league. If I recall correctly, both times he barely took any shots.
It seems to me that his preseason stats this year dwarf those of last season, last preseason, and last year in the summer league.
Last I looked Acie was shooting over 50% from the field and 60% from the arc, having made more 3-pointers than anyone on the team except JJ, prior to this last game. But we’re going to rip him for two games where he didn’t score, one of which was in the summer league’s typical chaotic play? Look at Bibby for a comparison. Or Flip. I’d say Acie is making damn good progress and holding his own for this preseason. But that’s just me. I’m not an ESPN expert…
You mean to tell me that Salim NEVER played in a game without scoring a point? EVER? So are you counting preseason and summer league games like you were with Acie? You know I’ll look this shiznit up…heh heh heh!
By ray
October 22, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Aw hell, you done messed up, Ariose. Look them stats up patna’…of course, ol’ boy stayed in Woody’s doghouse.
But I wonder, if he had shot as well as Acie did so far this preseason…would he have stayed there? Hmmmmm. I know which one is really supposed to be the point guard and which one is really supposed to be the shooter, though….
Heh, heh, heh…I’m stirring the pot. I must be channeling Doc…
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Uhhhh…….no need to look it up Ray Hehehehe……I was just generalizing(puts foot in mouth) lol.
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Me and my shamelesss Salim promotions lol….I’m usually very thourogh with that stats but you caught me red handed ray lol.
Acie’s great though. Hollinger defently doesn’t pay as much attention to his game like we do. He’s a very solid defender and an exellent slasher. Despite Acie’s reluctancy to shoot last season his collegiate career would suggest that he’s more than capable of getting the job done from out there……as we’ve seen throught the preseason.
And BLOCKS????? Hollinger messed that up.
1) He wasn’t on the floor enough
2) it’s not really his job…..seriouly though…..Blocks???? Really…..
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
It’s funny b/c I could probably list off the top of my head all the games SS played in without scoring last season heh….
By ray
October 22, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Ariose, you know I was just funnin’ with ya. I was bored, so I couldn’t let it go. But I hear you on Hollinger. What can I say, he’s good at what he does, but he’s not a junkie like you or me…heh heh heh.
But see, he’s thinking from a fantasy standpoint, which is why I maintain that one should read such contributions with a grain of salt in hand. Make that an entire shaker of salt. And Fantasy Basketball only pays attention to what happens in the regular season, and what the player does on the floor. It pays no attention whatsoever to a lot of other major details, such as coaching.
Salim is one of those guys who needed a change of scenery. He got it, and he’ll get better coaching, too.
By Najeh Davenpoop
October 22, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
As a general rule, anything John Hollinger says is exactly the opposite of what is true.
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
Sekou’s new article……athough i’m pretty sure if we win we’ll finish with a 5-3 record.
Apparently Joe has a sore groin and didn’t make the trip to Michigan…..so getting that W will be hard. We’re going to need a total team effort…….the good news is tha Marvin and Mo will be on the active roster and ready to play.
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
Ohh, So Mike always performs like this in the preseason???
By HB Ando
October 22, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Guys, I’m not defending Hollinger, because I don’t really see any value in it, but there are a couple of things that are worth noting, based on all the print he’s getting today:
one, he’s analyzing the whole league, so you might want to forgive him not being spot on for every player on the roster (at least for any one person’s perspective),
and, secondly, he still is approaching the organization from a statistical analysis of it’s players, with the limiting challenge of integrating subjective factors like Woody, the ASG, and the unknown impact of the economy on their financial capabilities.
Regardless, Hollinger’s opinion is a diversion from the conversation that continues.
Far more pertinent are the observations that folks are making, based on the most recent performances of the Hawks.
I was, indeed, at the game Monday (thanks, as always, to Jhan, who not only provides me an awesome seat, but compounds his charity by letting me ramble throughout the course of the game).
It was very cool to chat up SS, both at half-time and after the game.
As Ray mentioned, my half-time take was that the Hawks looked like the Magic’s peer. But the second half, and the way the game concluded, bore an eerily similar memory of last years’ team, failing to close out winnable games, and combining poor execution, late, with poor decisions, in critical possessions.
Bibby screwed the pooch at the end of both the second and fourth quarters, with very bad shots (the one at the end of the first half, when there was only a 2-second differential between the clock and the shot-clock, leading to a completely inexcusable 3-point play at the other end, was worse than the fall-away 20-footer he launched near the end of the game). He also exhibited the same kind of porous defense, on the perimeter, that has led me to maintain that he’s not the player many of you believe (the fact that he publicly took responsibility, after the game, for needing to play better perimeter defense, highlighting that point).
With no disrespect to Ken, the idea that Josh Smith has only had one rebound, in the last two games, is some how the sole byproduct of his playing some 3, is ludicrous. Are there any other starting small forwards, in the NBA, who can average .5 boards, and keep their job? When you’re 6’9, and can jump higher than almost every player in the league, crashing the boards is a pretty reasonable expectation.
I liked what I saw from Morris. He’s always going to be slow, but he has a combination of size, and skill, that make him, in my mind, a compelling possibility.
While it’s easy to attribute the volume of fouls, on the front line, to Howard’s presence, I think that number (and Howard’s 22 attempts) were compounded by some very weak perimeter defense.
And while one could argue that the absence of Marvin and Mo was offsetting, to the Magic’s absence of Hedo, I disagree. Jameer Nelson just isn’t that good. And Hedo showed, last season, that his ability to play the “point-forward” created a much more challenging dynamic than the one the Hawks lost two Monday night.
I think both teams approached the rotations as if it were a regular season game. I think, in the end, Orlando clarified, in the second-half, why the Hawks are still a work in progress, rather than a legitimate Eastern Conference contender.
Gotta go feed the baby. More later…
By richbrave
October 22, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
ANDO:
Surely the starting PG for the HAWKS looks better now than the rented mule from the BOSTON playoff series. Tell me the WOODEN-one has begun to utilize BIBBY’s talents wisely and set-up O and D to minimize his weaknesses.
If not, his contribution to the team would be minimal and there’s no reason your prophesy of BIBBY becoming a HAWK-ghost by the All-Star break shouldn’t come to fruition. No-Oui.?
Haven’t had the advantage of seeing the HAWKS first-hand, or on the tube, but looking forward to it.
Been treated to the absolutely abysmal WIZARDS and their bumbling attempts to play NBA-caliber ball without HEYWOOD, ARENAS, and JAMISON. It ain’t happenin’.
By blue hawk
October 22, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
I honestly think that Acie Law is a better point guard option for the Hawks than Mike Bibby.
Watching him play, it’s easy to appreciate how he has a presence on offense, always looking to make plays for his teamates or himself. He looked good on defense too. He ain’t no stopper but he was active on the defensive end and it was better than the lax ways of Bibby on defense. Bibby is currently shooting horrendously while Acie has been nailing a lot of his shots. Seeing Acie on the floor, it’s easy to see that he does have great size for a point guard.
I hope Acie gets a lot of playing time especially with the four other starters because a developing Acie will be better than a declining Bibby in the long run.
By HB Ando
October 22, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this
Rich, I can’t say “surely”, because, to me, that’s a term of objectivity. And I can’t even say that I agree, subjectively.
Blue, I’m not sure Acie is better, yet. But I think he is probably better, defensively, and I think he is better taking the ball to the basket. And I think that he and Murray, combined, give the Hawks a better overall presence, at the point, given that they, collectively, will cost the Hawks about 20-25% of what Bibby will cost them, if he stays here for the whole season.
Watching Law, Monday night, it seems that he can get lost on the court. But it sure looked like that was more a result of the sets that Woody runs, with the ball going into JJ’s hands very quickly (at which point Law goes from the PG to the 4th or 5th option on the floor).
Not sure what Law can do, if he’s taken out of the flow. didn’t look like he had the ball in his hands on Monday (which was reminiscent of last season).
From a “feel” standpoint, I was more impressed by the players performance than Woody’s.
All the talk of a Hawks’ roster being the deepest in years. I buy that, wholeheartedly. But managing a more talented roster is on Woody. And I remain unconvinced that he will be the head coach dictating substitutions. Until I see differently, I believe he’ll continue to be the coach who “reacts” to the moves of other teams. And that’s, in my opinion, a recipe for mediocrity, at best.
Sam, if you want $50 on the Hawks making the playoffs, just say so. But give your word, as a man and a father, that you’ll make good if you lose (I will do the same; I’ve got $50 with Lacsho, and $10 each with……jeez, guys, remind which two of you took ten bucks worth of action).
By Ariose
October 22, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Ando, you bring up an exellent point. Woodson is STILL AN IDIOT!!!! Now everyone wants to give this moron a pass(I’m sorry, I just got done reading that old Terrence Moore article camaigning for Woodson again). He whined his way into a better situation instead of developing his younger players. What happens when these current players get old or leave??? Is he NOT going to develop another group of players and whine some more???
I KNOW you all remeber him NOT coaching late last season in that Blowout loss to Flip Murray and the Pacers. He just sat there with his ARMS FOLDED not saying a word, and get this……HE MADE NO SUBSTITUTIONS!!! The starting unit was exausted and playing poorly. He can’t coach.
….and he still hasn’t proven he can adapt to his personell (Umm Bibby/Smoove Pick N’ Roll please!!)
Just because he now has vets that he doesn’t have to develop(which i’m pretty sure is part of the HC job description) still doesn’t make him a better coach….or let him off the hook.
His half-court sets still stink……Larry Brown said we used the Pick n’ Roll well????? OK we shall see…..
That’s exactly why RandMo and Solo probably won’t get any quality minuets this season…..he’ll revert back…..just you watch
………Of course I could be wrong(Can’t be completly biased).
Ando, how did Morris look on defense?
By cp
October 22, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
ray and myself were commenting on just how terrible our perimeter defense was in the game against the Bobcats. Opposing guards are getting to the hole with ease. Bibby just looks bad out there from a defensive perspective. His shot is not falling at all. Like I keep saying, hopefully he gets it together for the regular season. I dont see him here next year. His skills are just not what they used to be or what some think they are.
I was watching a few preseason games tonight to see just how some other players are.
Derick Rose will be a problem in this league. The guy is quick, great handles, can get anywhere on the court he wants, great body control. Once he gets a consistent jumper it is going to be tough to guard him.
I think the Wolves are going to regret getting rid of Mayo for Love. Love looks like a decent player and all but I just dont think he will have the same impact as Mayo.
Foye is not the Dwayne Wade clone people thought he would be coming out of college. He is a solid player but nothing like people thought he would be. He is still young but I just dont see him becoming that guy.
I love the Wizards young talent. Nick Young is going to be a good one once he gets better on the defensive end and gets a better shot selection. Sometimes I dont think he knows what pass the ball means. Nice talent either way. Blatche has to make better decisions with the ball. I like his game but he seems to have a low bball iq. Tries to do more than he really should be doing. The big kid McGee (spelling) looks very promising. Very athletic and has a soft touch.
Even with the injuries I think the Wizards are going to stil be pretty good this year.
By rms
October 22, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
Hey Blue, I hope ur right about Acie. I do believe if he were “given the keys to the car” earlier despite his injuries he could have played through his mistakes and progressed more at this point. My concern is if he were playing for a different team how much better would he be. Better yet, how much better would this entire team be if we had a coach that played to the players strengths. All the young guys are afraid of mistakes for fear of being benched. If you noticed last year Acie did a lot of bringing the ball up the floor, passing it to someone else and hiding in the corner watching a play develop that didnt invovle him. That can not be the case this year. I hope he takes over so we can move Bibby (nothing personal) and add to our bench, specifically a big man. wucha think??
By BA
October 23, 2008 2:12 AM | Link to this
Ariose, I think Woodson will be a different animal this year. He’s got a deal; last year dude had his back against the wall. Say what you will, but he did. He took a young team to the playoffs without the benefit of his GM’s confidence.
Also, obviously, he’s got more players now, so I think you’ll see a more consistent rotation- closer to the rotations you see around the league, teams going 9-10 deep. OK, maybe 8 deep, heh-heh.
RichBrave, read my boy cp’s 11:30pm post- it’ll make you feel better about those Wizards- I say you’ll be pleasantly suprised this year. Unless you come to the Dark Side of our Hawks- because Atlanta will have to deal with D.C. all year long.
One more thing about Woodson- somebody (either Ray or Big “Papa” Ando maybe) said the other day that our coach is a mismatch with our players. Defensive-minded coach, vs. a bunch of kids that want to RUN. I tend to think of it as the opposite- these kids don’t need to be coached “up” to run, that’s all they want to do anyway. They need to be coached “down” to focus on strong team defense. And outside of Bibby, the Hawks defense is at least above average. Woodson deserves some credit for that- a bunch of 22 year-olds playing d this well in the NBA.
Ariose, that Marvin Williams scouting report you posted was a STARK contrast to what people around here post! Thanks, though- made for a nice read. Except for the part where Hollinger basically repeated ando’s Bibby mantra VERBATIM!
Dully noted, Alpha Matrix Reloaded.
Guess it WASN’T such a hairbrained idea. But I still don’t buy it, I see the Hawks IN the race this year, no way they move their starting PG.
By blue hawk
October 23, 2008 5:03 AM | Link to this
have you guys seen the Knicks lately? they’re kinda fun to watch. even big Zach looks like he’s having fun, he’s running the floor, even knocking down threes.
makes you wonder if D’Antoni was the Hawks coach, the team would definitely be great to watch.
By blue hawk
October 23, 2008 5:11 AM | Link to this
hey ANDO
it’s me and Najeh Davenpoop. we both took $5@ on the Hawks making better than 10th in the East.
Sorry to say this but Bibby doesn’t really look like he’s a top point guard. Yeah he’s got point guard size, he has good handles, he can shoot the ball BUT he’s not really that skilled in terms of being a playmaker for a team.
Acie moved like a playmaker on the second unit. Problem is, Acie is still tentative when he’s on the floor with the starting four. He tends to cower into spectator mode most of the time. Hey, we should bring out Acie’s talent, ‘cause he was really worth that lottery pick and he should be given every chance to achieve his potential. And it’s in our best interests to do so.
By Astro Joe
October 23, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
Ando, we have a $100 wager on the Hawks making the playoffs. You offered the challenge on the night of 10/13 and I accepted the next morning. If Gordon Solie were still alive, he could have turned it into a “blogger leave town” battle… like Dick Slater vs. Junkyard Dog or something. And then the loser would come back to the blog with a “mask” on and a different alias… as if folk wouldn’t know the difference. I would come back as Asteroid Joe and you could come back as DANDO. LOL. OK, so I watched a little too much NWA back in the day.
Last pre-season game tonight. It appears that the starters are getting more run across the league. Let’s hope that none of our top 8-9 players suffer an ankle sprain or worse tonight. Given the exploration of various line-ups during the pre-season, a 4-4 record (at worse) seems good enough. Especially when Marvin, Bibby, Zaza, Mo and others have all missed some game time.
By GA SWEET
October 23, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
I loved Acie Law IV at the point guard during the preseason. He makes great plays and makes most of his shots. However, it seems as if he sometimes hold back from really being the great player that his fans know that he can be.
Bibby is ok, but Acie looked better in the preseason. Overall, the team gets a B-from me.
The team needs to work on fouls and defense. Fight for rebounds for goodness sake.
By Samuel
October 23, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
Ando,
I was thinking more like $100.00. My word is Bond. If I lose, I leave it with Cuz.
Bet?
By Najeh Davenpoop
October 23, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I still got my $5 on the Hawks making the playoffs.
By Najeh Davenpoop
October 23, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Spurs waive Salim Stoudamire. Sorry Ariose…
By I.MUS WRITE
October 23, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
What a shame ……Salim get’s waived Well I guess he is, who we thought he was- An undersized chucker. Is it safe to say that he is probably finished in the NBA, and he will be chucking sum where in europe soon. Let the church say amen….Lets bow our heads and have the funeral already
Ariose -are you gonna be okay dude……maybe you should take sum sick days……
By doc
October 23, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
ando you better have a good system to research your bets before long or begin to write them down because the line is getting longer. if the hawks do get where most think they will be then i guarantee everyone will be on the collect from ando train. remember to save some of that stuff for a college education for your daughter.
maybe it was the sekou sauce served up last week that he brewed on the way back from charlotte (dont trust a brew made between here and charlotte as that used to be bootlegger alley) that has the surprising taste of concentrated kool aide but you better watch out about offering that one too much longer or start betting long on a differnt blog to even out your risk. heh heh
By Astro Joe
October 23, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
I.MUS, if Dan Dickau could stay in the league for 4-5 years, then surely Salim can get another shot at an NBA job? Of course, staying healthy would tremendously help his cause.
Speaking of which, Sekou, all indications were that Speedy had one last shot to prove that he could regain his health. Woody intimated such in one of his quotes that you provided. So what gives? Is Sund filing that medical exemption paperwork? Or will the ASG gladly accept the insurance payments (again) to supplement their operating expense? Hasn’t he missed like the last 120+ NBA regular/postseason games?
By Gypsyjoe
October 23, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
Sekou,
I have a question. Demarr Johnson got waived by the Wizards. Should we give him a look? maybe he is a better option then Garner.
By Clyde
October 23, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Najeh Davenpoop how bout 5 that the Hawks won’t have a winning record.
By Aaron B
October 23, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
I will say this. I would be tempted to get on the betting train with the rest of them, if the Hawks actually dominated preseason like they gave me the impression they were gonna do. But unfortunately they did worse this preseason than last. much worse.
By doc
October 23, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
ray, i see you grabbed about 4500 lbs of pot in savannah. where is the other 500 lbs? heh heh, najeh might be befriending you soon. kidding big time but couldnt resist.
By I.MUS WRITE
October 23, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
Aj- I guess you ‘re right. I still cant believe that Dan Dickau is on sumone’s roster. Pot bust in savannah Huh? Yeah right, those bails of bud will be back on the streets in a month or so. Courtesy of the SPD-
By Ariose
October 23, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Poop, Thanks for the info. It’ all good, Salim’s got a lot of B-Ball left in him. He just needs to get healthy.
I.MUS-Funny, whatever. He never really got a chance to show what he could do. He strained both his Groin muscles twice in three weeks. Just bad timing. He tried to speed up the recovery and it bit him in the butt. The one game that he did play healthy he had a pretty good showing. Him not making the squad because of this injury in no way reflects his talent or skill on the court.
By doc
October 23, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
better be careful guys with the bets, they are going to shut us down and throw sekou in the clinker as a bookie.
By Hawksfan
October 23, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
Sekou, what’s going on with j smoove? Nice dunk by evans the whole bench exploded.
By Macaroni Tony
October 23, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
Hawks win without Joe Johnson, why was JS minutes limited?
By ray
October 23, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
Finally, the blog works.
Doc, I was there. That’s all I’m gonna say. It was quite a haul and very interesting how everything developed. Perhaps sometime over a few beers…
Nice win tonight, despite all of the factors that didn’t make it the game it could’ve been. We were missing JJ, they were missing ‘Sheed. They played Prince, Billups, Amir, and McDyess no more than 12-15 minutes each.
Murray stormed the court for us again. What a great pickup he’s turning out to be, and the season ain’t even started. Mo Evans did his thing a bit, too. Acie wasn’t bad. In fact, he was decent, though not highly noticeable.
I don’t know what got into Zaza, but keep feeding it to him. He put up 18 and 9 for us. Sweet. Marvin started kinda fast, but faded just as fast. He also had 7 damn turnovers. Meanwhile, Smoove misses nearly all of his half dozen free throws, but starts quick with 5 points and 8 boards. Then the Woodson effect took over, and he didn’t play anymore. Just 17 minutes. Whatever, Woody. Our reserves came through for us big time. Ours are better than theirs. And we might be saying just that many nights.
Season starts soon. Can’t wait….
By Lacsho
October 23, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
Just got through listening to the game. Acie hit a clutch jumper, and ZaZa played his azz off…
Great Win!!!!
By kwooden1
October 23, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
Finally the preseason is over, I’m glad the guys made it through without any major injuries. I wanted to see Speedy this game, but hopefully he can be ready for the real season. It was good to see that Zaza had filled the stat sheet, especially rebounding and score at the basket. Except for Marvin’s turnovers he had a good stat line also, hopefully he will be ready to play at the home opener. Again Flip was a great pickup for the price, he tied Zaza to lead the team in rebounds and had the most assists. Acie hit a big three and Mo was terrible from 3 but played good defense. Hopefully the guys are ready for the lights to turn on and for things to count, I’m definitely ready to watch.
I think the HAWKS are definitely capable of making the playoffs, but it really depends on how things go with teams like the Pacers, Bucks and Miami. I think the HAWKS are battling for the 7 and 8 spot again. Philly looks ready, the Wizards are always tough and Orlando is just good. I see the East ending up something like the Celitics, Detroit, Cleveland, Toronto, Orlando, Philly, Wizards, Hawks or Miami. Looking at the Bucks, Nets, Bobcats, Chicago and Indiana, none of those teams are far ahead of the Hawks or really even ahead at all. They clearly have as good a chance as anyone of making the Playoffs in the eight slot again.
Looking at the preseason, I hate to say I’ve seen nothing that gives me the feel that the HAWKS are ready to take the 5th or 6th Playoff spot. The two guys that really needed to improve and become second scorers, Marvin and Smoove, appeared to have improved but not nearly enough. Hopefully as the season progresses they can gain confidence and become great players.
GO HAWKS!
Beat Orlando!
By richbrave
October 23, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
Got to see the last three minutes of the third and all the fourth between the WIZARDS-SPURS. What a difference. Not sayin’ the WIZ defense isn’t still sub-par, but I actually saw players step up in the lane and challange folks tryin’ to take a stroll. I saw defenders move SPURS away from spots on the floor that they tried to reach in a set offense. And this from the youngsters. I think only DOMINIQUE McGUIRE drew JORDAN’s ire for taking an ill-advised quick shot from just inside the 3 stripe…. McGEE looked good, better than in EUROPE. This young man reminds of a rookie HORFORD AT TIMES and he’s started dropping his FT’s…. YOUNG is still hobbling a bit on that sore knee, so not much D, but he had some offense moves at least, and dropped 15…. BLATCHE was uneven on both ends, but giving effort…. PETCHEROV looked so much better, I hardly recognized him, and SONGAILA put away his zombie halloween costume which he modeled in EUROPE- for the most part…. BUTLER was usual - superlative, but JAMISON still looks a little gimpy on that knee. Was in only a couple of minutes and I couldn’t evaluate his early play….DIXON still slowed by a knee also…DEE BROWN getting lots of work at point. He needs it….STEVENSON was out of the game by the time I picked it up as was THOMAS, and A.D….ARENAS and HEYWOOD round out the roster of course. Maybe the WIZ give the HAWKS a little more trouble than my earlier analysis, but I don’t see them taking anymore games than before(2-3)….
By Ariose
October 23, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this
Smoove Sprained his Ankle and didn’t come back in the second half as a precautionary measure…
~Sir Links A Lot~
By The Truth
October 23, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this
My take of the Piston game tonight: A half-empty half-full performance. half-empty: still defensive problems; the inside middle can be exploited; if the piston guards split our back-court defense, it’s an easy uncontested layup most of the time. Josh would normally be that shot blocker but when he’s not in the game, its a cake walk. That should be our center’s role but we are still soft in that area. Still too many turnovers; Law hasn’t mastered the ability to protect the ball yet. I forgive Marvin because he’s a little rusty from his injury. He’s playing way to fast and forcing turnover. He should slow down and let the game come to him. Playing fast and playing aggressive is two different things. He hasn’t figured that out yet. I can see his size advantage potential but he hasn’t fully learned how to use it yet. I can live with Flip turnover because he is a scoring machine. The game would have been lost without him. Also, there was a stretch in the game where it was too much one-on-one. During that stretch, the Piston embarrassed us the most. They forced us into half-court set and exploited our weaknesses. During that stretch, we played sandlot style and Woody had no schemes. If it wasn’t for Zaza adapting to Piston style in the 4th Qtr, the game would have been lost. Half-full: Law may emerge (one day) to be the next Mr. Big Shot. He seem to have that knack of a killer instinct. He made another big shot down the stretch when we needed it. With our new veterans, we are much more mature team that made the difference as to why we won the game. We hung in there, stayed close, and didn’t get rattled down the stretch. Last year this time, all things being equaled, we would have lost a game like this.
By cp
October 24, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this
Im still seeing some of the same issues that hart us last year. We are terrible at guarding the 3 pointer. Our perimeter d is awful. We really need to clean up in both those areas.
Marvin has improved but he is still terrible and almost out of control when driving to the hole. He is either running guys over or losing the ball.
I dont think we will see much of Randolph, Hunter, and either Mario or Gardner this season. I wont be shocked if Solo still doesn’t get many minutes. Woodson looks like the same coach to me and that isn’t a good thing.
Somebody brought up Dermarr Johnson from the last blog. I would take him over some of the guys we have on the bench. Bring em home Sund.
richbrave the Wizards will be fine. I like what I saw out of them last night. A lot of young promising players that will improve over time.
I know I have been hard on Bibby this preseason, but tonight he showed again why I have been so tough. He gives us nice production on the offensive end when he is on but he gives up so much on the defensive end. Will Bynum was abusing Bibby. Stuckey came in and abused him. The few minutes Billups played he did what he wanted to Bibby. He does not have to be a shut down defender but man he has to give us something. Right now his defense is pretty much non existent. It doesn’t help that his shot is not falling either. We need Bibby to get it together for the tough stretch we have coming out the gate.
By Ariose
October 24, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this
Got some good stuff for you guys….
Hawks-Pistons NBA.com video recap.
….Smoove is a Beast. They’re lucky he didn’t play in the second half….Evans with the sick backwards jam….even withou Chills we got more atletic.
NBA.com Hawks season preview (video)
Nice interviews from Joe and Woodson on here……Mike Fratello(former Hawks Coach) is analyzing….why not Smitty??
~Sir Links A Lot~
By blue hawk
October 24, 2008 5:59 AM | Link to this
Bibby’s most important effect on this team last year was not his playmaking but rather his arrival made the entire Atlanta Hawks community (players, coaches, admin, fans, media) believe that this team had a chance. And believe they did. A kind of placebo effect if you will. The kind that made the team think, “We’re stronger now!”. Although he was a step up from the other PGs before him, how big of a step up really was it?
The reason I’m saying this is, I think we’re starting to think in a similar way this season. Last season we were thinking, “if only we had that premiere point guard, we’d be contenders.” This season everybody’s thinking, “if only we had that veteran big man, then we’d make a serious run.” it’s kind of a trap. We’re always thinking that there’s something missing, but in truth we already have enough of the right peices. Woodson has to realize this and should be the first one who believes in this team. As the coach’s thinking goes, so goes everybody else’s (thinking). And mind you, I don’t think there are any worthy big men available out there. Not Duncan, not Gasol, not Garnett, not Boozer, not Brand, not Rasheed. Who do you guys have in mind? I’m it’ll be between NOT AVAILABLE and NON-EXISTENT. Let’s take this team to the next level, as it is because it can.
By richbrave
October 24, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this
cp:
Not sayin’ they won’t be in time. But they will not be competative this year against our HAWKS.
By richbrave
October 24, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this
BA:
Just caught your post. The cyber-babble here is telling me the HAWKS have some rough spots to work out of their own. I’m not a coach, just a fan so I only know what I see. And I haven’t seen my new team in action yet. If BIBBY isn’t stellar however, there will be trouble. 1 and 5 make any team soar or fall flat. Which is it bird watchers.? We’ve got 2-JOHNSON,3-SMITH,4-HORFORD as solid gold. I’ve seen a lot of words about RANDOLPH MORRIS and ZAZA. Is that combo an upgrade.? How is SOLO doing this exhibition season.? I suppose WOODY has to go back to the old HORFORD at 5 routine if the new front line doesn’t work well. LAW seems to be coming around a bit at point. We’ve got to be better than this time last year. Is WOODSON up to the challange of putting his players into the best O and D to fit their individual strengths and weaknesses.? Inquiring minds want to know. THANX. Gotta’ go fret over the stock market now. Been buyin over the past two weeks. Probably gonna’ lose big today.
By wordsmithtom
October 24, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
I know preseason.
Still, minus JJ, and Smooth on the bench at the end, they win in Detroit. An under 90 point game and they win.
Oh yea….
By Samuel
October 24, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
I’m satisfied with last night and the preason. Last night we won without JJ, which is huge for the confidence of the other guys. Say what you want about our poor defense but we held the Pistons to 39% shooting from the Field. You can’t do much better than that.
This preseason showed me the things I was looking for: 1) Solo is ready to get more minutes and he will. I believe he will get 15-20min per. 2) We are better off with Murry and Evans than Childress. Both these guys can score and play defense. Especially Murry. I’ll take Murry over Childress straight up. Evans is gravy, 3) Acie Law is getting better. He still needs to cut down on turnovers but he’s definately getting better. I still say we should keep Bibby for the entire season though. We’ll need him for the playoffs. I won’t have a problem trading Bibby for a starting center and a backup PG or draft pick this summer. Wilcox and a pick.. Curry and Robinson. McDyess and a pick. Prizbilla or Frye. Something along those lines.4) Woody will be fine.
Are we on or what? I don’t want no funny stuff come playoff time.
By MannyT
October 24, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
new blog up