Hawks

By Samuel

September 2, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this

Cuz,

Welcome back! Yea it did get kinda Hot in here with no new stuff.

I gotta agree with your man though on Marvin. I think it will be a mistake for Marvin to move out to that three point line. His problem has always been his lack of agressiveness. Settling for the three will only make it worse. Besides, he will never be a good three point shooter. He jumps too high and is too off balanced on his jumper.

All the good three point shooters basically shoot a set shot.

I don’t believe Marvin will determine the fate of the Hawks this year. With the addition of Evans and Murry, he will be pushed though. Hopefully, this will help him be more consistantly agressive.

The keys will be: 1) Bibby and JJ’s health, 2) Josh’s shot selection and 3) Solo’s development. If those things fall into place, we will be better than last year and possibly move up a couple of places in the playoffs.

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

Let me be the first to say Welcome Back. I watched the three playoff wins this past weekend, and I think the hawks are in go shape. If Flip and Evans were on this team last year the outcome (in my opinion) would have been different. I too agree Marvin will be the key. During the playoffs Marvin lacked consistency, but you saw signs of the future. There were times when he led the team with free throw attempts. Marvin will not back down from anyone; I think he can really become a beast. Just think if we had Chillz this year(wow). I have confidence in Marvin. I think a year of maturity takes these Hawks to the second round. I know I know a lot of you may think I’m crazy, but after watching that playoff serious against the best team in the league, I just feel the Hawks are going to make that leap to respectability. Flip and Evans can give you a 30 point game on any giving night. I think JJ will be able to get more rest. Plus this is not the young Hawks no more. The core is now veteran players.

That’s my take,

Peace Hawk Nation!!!!

By Richie

September 2, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

I’ve seen 2 or 3 rankings of the East teams recently. All of them have the Hawks not making the playoffs this year. I don’t understand what these media guys are seeing (or not seeing). Maybe this will give the Hawks more motivation to prove these ‘experts’ wrong and make a leap from last year.

By khao$

September 2, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Great blog Sekou. I do believe Marvin is the key component. If he takes a step up (and everyone remains healthy and produces) I believe the Hawks will soar. Marvin has to be more decisive. I’ll put it out there…we need 18 pts per game from Marvin.

By doc

September 2, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

good to see you go for well deserved r and r. glad you are back.

come on sekou dont come back and go scared on us or negative. that schedule is cake. remember, this is the third best team in the league and only inconsequential ingredients lost from that daunting team that took the celts to the brink of elimination, right?

got to think they start 7 and 3 or even better 8 and 2 with the off season acquisitions. they will look like the celts did last year as they smooth it to about 15 and 5 or even better 17 and 3 to start the season. we got the coach and all the missing pieces now. throw that beside and along with organic growth of smith, marvin, acie, horford and the intimidator; yes the man…. eraser solo, underneath.

hot baby, nothing but burn. hawks, too hot to handle at the highlight factory.

go hawks!

By ptrepdaa

September 2, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

marvin is the key to the season(bibby&law must show better play).think about it,if marvin can shoot around .385% to .400% on his 3pt shot the sky is the limit. if he can do that then everything opens up.if he shot like that against boston they would have had to gaurd jj like they did against lj and kobe.by game 6 they were sending three to the top of the key when jj had the ball and four when he made it to the paint.with marvin doing his thing from beyond josh can roam,big al will have space to bang,bibby and law would have room to drive and be able to kick it out to either wing and if that happens jj will shine.josh should also become a better rebounder(like j.greek was).

By Astro Joe

September 2, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Easy baskets. That’s what this team needs. Childress won’t be around to roam the baseline for those unexpected lay-ups in the half-court set. If Marvin miraculously shoots 40%+ from 3-land, then great. But more likely, he’ll shoot around 32% and more than likely his FTAs will go down. Sorry, that’s not helping the offense.

If the Hawks are going to play half-court offense (like they typically do), then I vote for an “attack the basket” plan. This team is too small to be a great defensive club, so we have to score points to win consistently. I’d rather have Bibby and JJ doing the 3-point shooting with Marvin & Smith attacking the basket, rather than watch Marvin play the “Bruce Bowen in the corner” game. I don’t think we win if Marvin shoots more than 100 3 pointers this season.

One last thing on Marvin in the playoffs, didn’t dude play some REALLY good defense? I haven’t watched the games again, but I seem to remember that Marvin was pretty good against Pierce during most of the games. His Game 7 foul was bush-league, but I thought he stepped up his defensive intensity in that series.

By Sautee

September 2, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

doc

Now, who says you can’t be positive?

;-)

By tman2000

September 2, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

Marvin jones biggest problemo is himself.. He lacks the killer instinct and is soft. When he got there they should of bought someone in like Charles Oakley to show him how to knock guys on there a* and big aggresive. There is no reasom with this guys body why he can’t be an allstar… Come’on hawk fans..

By doc

September 2, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

exactly, now doesnt everyone feel better and maybe i can be accepted back to hawks fandom.

sekou, agree if marvin can hit the three pointer then that puts a huge strain on defenses and opens the middle for smith and horford. unfortunately, i thought i saw teams daring him to make those open 15 footers, which as you point out he couldnt with regularity. he will have to prove he can hit it. right now, he only clogs things up if he doesnt make them. he could be one of the major thrusts forward for this team in the up coming season. maybe he ca take the baseline like chills did last year if not the three. he is excellent from the foul line when he doesnt have to jump or look over a defender.

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

AJ

Marvin’s defense was pretty good. Chillz had some great defensive plays too. Oh, I forgot about Mr. Bibby. When Bibby played well the Hawks were unstoppable. The fast break looked like the old Lakers. (Boy did I step out there on the ledge). Sekou previously reported Smoove building upper body strength. That’s something he lacked against the Celtics. They really manhandled Smoove in the post. I must say Horford for a rookie showed a lot of guts. I know I must have rewind that taunting play, which caused Pierce to throw up gang signs.

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

doc:

Damm man. You were out.?

By Reggie

September 2, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Sekou

Do you see the hawks making another move, Whats latest with Soloman Jones?

By doc

September 2, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

all the way richie.

By Najeh Davenpoop

September 2, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Marvin? Interesting. As it stands he’s probably the worst starter the Hawks have (not that he’s that terrible, just that he’s not all that good at anything). I can see why people might say his improvement is the key for the Hawks, since he seems like he should be so productive offensively. To me, though, Josh Smith refining his offensive game will benefit this team a lot more than Marvin, because of his aggressiveness. I’ve said this before about Marvin and I’ll say it again — maybe he will one day develop his considerable talents, but it’s a lot harder to change your mindset and approach to the game. Marvin and Josh are at the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to that, because as aggressive as Josh is, Marvin is equally timid. With that in mind I think it’s hard to say that any team should rely on him. If he does improve his game, that’s great, but it still comes down to Josh (and to a lesser extent Al) for the upcoming season.

By Ramon

September 2, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Astro, the team has improved this summer as a whole on defense. For his lack of rebounding, Evans is still a lot better defensive player than Chills. With Evans, JJ has the first chance to not be required to guard the teams best perimeter player. And you have to think having a summer to ‘bulk’ up and learn more about defending the post will help Horford this season. Although Bibby was never a defender, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt that a healthy heel will help him stay in front of his man even more. All of those equal the easy baskets you’re desiring.

Sekou, you know I love your work. But shouldn’t it be more beneficial for the Hawks to start the season with a schedule like the one they have?

The last time they were on the court, they were playing with full intensity, on another level than any of us have ever seen them at. By starting the season against good competition, I think it will make it easier for them to still have some of that intensity. Also, most veteran playoff teams get off to a slow start at the beginning of most seasons. And I can’t see Philly ruining the home season opener, especially knowing Brand will be trying to run with Smoove.

By Mike is back

September 2, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Sekou I gotta agree with your insider assessment. Typically, at SF position Marvin will always have a size mismatch on most opponents. Plus he’s like what a 90% free throw shooter. With the added bulk, Marvin could be a monster around the goal. He started to show more aggression around the rack towards the end of the season. Usually because of his poor ball handling skills, and poor footwork he would always end up plowing into smaller players and drawing a charge. If he can improve on that, that alone could elevate the level of game.

Now you if you run the plays through the post, like stated in an earlier with AH or Smoove, with pick and roles with Marvin playing alone the baseline, than you start to create some misdirection, which creates space for your true 3pt shooters like JJ, Bibby, and Evans.

It’s another wrinkle Woody could exploit. Plus you put a cat like Murray in the pick and role that’s a strong finisher at the rack in that scenario with Marvin trolling the baseline, and you really put pressure on the defense. It makes team play honest, and they have to quit running two and three guys at JJ.

If I’m a coach and I’m playing the Hawks. I’m begging Marvin to take that 3pt shot until he proved that he can hurt me. That’s basically how they defense Smoove. I’m sure other teams would be glad to have another of the Hawks athletic Bigs hosting up treys. It would be a nice weapon for Marvin to add to his arsenal, but with the departure of Chill, the Hawks will need a stronger present in the post from Marvin on offense and defense.

Having said that, I’m as excited as ever about the upcoming season. I think we are an improved team from last year on paper of course, so I’m eager to see how our young guys have progressed as well as how the new addition will gel.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

September 2, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

I agree with Najeh. For Duck, our 5th best player, to be our lynchpin would be a serious indictment of the rest of our 4 starters. Duck’s emergence would be nice, but doesnt seem to be all that integral to our success- at least as our “offense” is currently constructed. Among the other four starters, each excels at a facet of the game where as Duck is a lesser among them (re: Al scores inside, Smoov slashes, Joe shoots, Bibby spots). Duck can do most of these things, but it is more in a complimentary role.

I’m interested to see the net result of Duck’s 3pt experiment. He’s been conceding he needs to get more assertive on offense since his second season, only it hasn’t happened. If Smoov continues to develop/refine his game, Al gets the touches we all believe he deserves, Bibby continues to compliment Joe, and Joe remains Joe; how is this all going to work? This isn’t NBA2K8, people will need consistency, rhythm to be effective. Even the Pistons, the pre-eminent example of teamwork basketball in the modern era won the chip with one non-scorer.

I genuniely hope Duck plays the way that many believe he is capable. I’m just asking what is that potential- to be [still] be the third, fourth scorer? As it stands now he is a contributor- nothing more. How many breakout players can we realistically expect? Joe is there, Smoov on cusp, Al is destined, Duck’s been on the pond for a minute….

RISE UP

By Traceman

September 2, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

I think it is an interesting debate regarding whether or not Marvin adding a 3 pt shot to his repertoire will be good or bad for the his overall game and for the Hawks as a team. The easy answer is that it will be good for the team if he shoots and makes a lot of 3’s. I don’t see any way that Marvin can shoot 38% or better from the 3 pt line and it be “bad” for the team.

That said, I agree with your buddy that it is MORE important that he be aggressive going to the basket (and around the basket) and continue to get to the line than it is for him to become a prolific 3 point shooter. If he does one or the other particularly well, he will be a very good player. If he can do both, he could become the player Billy Knight envisioned when he drafted him #2 overall. He still won’t be better than CP3 or Deron Williams but he could be an All Star caliber player and I think any real Hawks fan would be happy with Marvin becoming an All Star caliber player at this point.

By Sekou K. Smith

September 2, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Ramon,

There is no strength of schedule component in the NBA, so I’d rather start the season at home against non-playoff teams if I had my way (and I’m just speaking theoretically here) as opposed to on the road against a steady dose of playoff teams.

You want to start the season with a bang and make sure you’re not in the hole by Thanksgiving (as has been the case in years past).

By kirknga

September 2, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

I believe Marvin’s true value will be as trade bait. Someone is likely to go, and I believe Marvin is that player.

Bibby will remain a Hawk at least through the end of the season, unless the season is a disaster in which case he leaves at the trade deadline. His health and that of JJ will be important as someone mentioned earlier.

While Marvin might be intriguing to some, I think it is Josh Smith who must make the next developmental leap if the Hawks are to remain a playoff team. He must be as good as advertised here on the blog this summer.

Finally, Coach Woodson must develop a deeper rotation than last season. Childress is gone, but there are pieces there are new pieces avaialble that he will have to use. Sund didn’t acquire the pieces he did for them not to be used.

I believe Woodson is under pressure(a 2-year extension is not a big vote of confidence for a coach that just took his team to the playoffs for the first time in a long while) as well and that Sund will pull the plug if he believes it necessary. It will not happen early, but could in time for a playoff push.

By Jimbo

September 2, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Sad to say but Marvin’s role always will be as the guy who we picked ahead of Chris Paul. Yesterday, today and forever.

By ILL-Logical

September 2, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

I have returned-please keep your seats-from a self imposed exile based on my inability to deal with the Hawk’s management logic to confront the current topic.

The fact that MW’s name is being bandied about in terms of his impact-real or imagined-on the teams future success is a sign that the more things around here change the more they stay the same.

MW cannot guard anyone of starting caliber at his position in the NBA: LaBron;AI;Paul Pierce;Gerald Wallace-and these are just a few in the East.For an alleged devensive minded coach ,the current incumbent, cannot justify MW’s presence in his starting line up.

And for all of you who develop a pheromone rush at the mention of his name: I’m not saying the dude can’t play; he just doesn’t make this team better as a starter.Especially with managements chronic inability/unwilliness to procure a starting center who provides the strong inside defense and rebounding this system requires.

Continuing to play Al and Josh( no more having to specify which one now) out of position practically guarantees unfavorable mis matches and possible injuries.

So, in summary and conclusion, MW’s role on the current Hawk’s team should be limited to what he offers on BOTH ends of the court and only when and where it produces a distinct advantage to the team on a select basis.

By I.MUS WRITE

September 2, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Letz see…..Bibby,JJ,Flip,Evans,occasionally Josh,I think we have enough 3pt shooters. Marvin took like ten 3’s last year-Itz great that he’s working on his range,but as of right now itz all talk show me when the lights come on at the HLF.

Year after year I’ve heard the same garbage……This is going to be Marvins year or He was the RMR MVP so he’s gonna break out. Then the season starts and he looks uncoordinated,unassertive and just flat out lost. I hope he can give us atleast 17 this year but his numbers are kind of irrelivent to me because his points are so quiet! shhhhhhhhh!

I wanted Chillz starting over Marvin becuz he just was’nt agressive what makes him different this year 10 lbs and 1000 3 pt shots taken during the summer….?????

Our sucess will depend more on the the Developement of Mr. Law, Speedy/Bibby’s health, Horford/Morris emergence

Marvin should have spent the summer working on his lateral quickness ……I never saw him get by anyone off the dribble he almost always loses the ball misses at the rim or gets bailed out on a foul…………. I hope Marv finally comes around but I doubt it will happen……… If he looks the same as last year and Law looks good with a healthy speedy -our best bet to improve might be packaging Bibby/Marvin in a trade…

By MannyT

September 2, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Welcome back Sekou!

While on blogcation, do you check other blogs? Similar to the do you read other beat writers’ stuff when on a regular vacation.

I still believe the person that will have the greatest effect on the record is Woody.

BK gave him a team of guys that could run and play multiple positions on the fly. Woody rarely took advantage of that. Your boy Rick has given him some experience on the bench to play more of a traditional NBA style, but most of the flexible running players are still here. Bottom line—Woody has options. He needs to figure out a way to create advantages and make other teams adjust to his personnel. If he does this, we will have a better team. He’s got depth and style options. If he doesn’t make something good happen, Sund needs to get environmental and stop shining opportunity on Woody. Off to the recycling plant!

Like many have said, I don’t have faith in him, but I really, really hope I am wrong…and now that I moved into the lower level, he needs to perform. Positive signs cost the same as negative ones to make. (Just to show I can go positive—WHEW! that’s Woody, Hawks—Embrace Winning!)

As for Marvin, expanding his 3 point capabilty should help his game. He attempted 10 last season. I don’t expect him to become Dale Ellis and setup shop at the 3 pt line. If he can have a legit 3 pt threat (shoot 100, make mid 30% for the season) it will open up his dribble drive game. He gets to the line a good amount now with a slippery handle. If defenses have to respect his 3 game, I can see an offense that starts with a bunch of guys on the perimiter, but exploits matchups to use the dribble drive first, but has enough outside strength to make teams pay if they sag off the 3.

Between Bibby, JJ, Evans, Flip, & Marvin?, there should always be 2 guys in the game on oppostie sides of the court that can knock down a 3. That doesn’t even count Josh (no, no, don’t—good shot 25% of the time) Smith. He isn’t afraid to take the shot. That’s the other thing in this blog that Marvin needs to get—shot courage. He is a better shooter than most on the team, but an unlikely shooter in teh clutch. You cannot make a big shot if you are unwilling to take one.

Time to work down off the Olympics…Fantasy Football starting, then the Hawks take flight.

Citius, Altius, Fortius—where getting there is a bigger deal because it’s once every 4 years

By Mike is back

September 2, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Jimbo, I’m not Marvin defender, but he has steadily improved his game each season. I don’t think he will ever make anyone say that they would have drafted him ahead of CP3, and DWilliams cause both of those cats are serious ballers. But there was another player drafted ahead of CP3.

This kid is still only 22 yrs old. He has showed the willingness and desire to work in the off-season to improve his game. A lot of NBA player’s time horizons are different in term of development. It is simply to early in Marvin career to write him off as a bust. His contribution to Hawks is most intriguing aspect of the upcoming season.

I think one of the reason the young players of the Hawks receive such a drubbing in the media is because of the dubious past of Hawks franchise. Most people see last season as a flute, and expect the team to revert to the Hawks of old. Same with Marvin, we seen Marvin for the last three years and some feel that Marvin has peek in terms of his production. I don’t think so, I think this young player frames has filled out to the point to where he’s stop playing like a kid, and start playing like a man. I also think that this young team got a taste of the playoff atmosphere and their starving for more. I think the whole franchise feels that anything short of the playoff is unacceptable.

That’s what makes the upcoming season so intriguing.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By LL Cool Scott

September 2, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

The key to this team’s future is not Mar-Vina (pronounced like….). The key is Al Horford developing some post moves and a go-to shot. If he turns into a real scoring threat in the post, the sky is the limit for these guys. He and Joe Johnson will be the offensive catalysts of this team, just as Josh Smith and Joe will be the defensive catalysts of this team. Anything that Mar-Vina provides is gravy.

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

You know what amazes me. You put a group of people in the same room. Show them a five minute clip, and you will have various versions of the same clip. Are some just so disgruntled with the pick, that they fail or refuse to acknowledge his game. Keep in mind Paul and William played 4 years of college ball, and if I’m not mistaken Marvin would’ve been a senior this year at Carolina. There’s no way Paul and William could’ve came out their freshmen year and made a huge impact. No way in Hell, so give the guy a break. He’s just getting use to his body. Sometimes you have to set your personal feelings aside, and look at the picture objectively. I’ve recorded 20 games from last season, and I haven’t missed a game in 8 years, so I really don’t know why there’s such a big disconnect between observations. Did he lack consistency? Yes, but every year he has shown improvement. Please check his stats. How can you be a Hawk’s fan and call him Duck? Are you perfect, what if we could look into your past and critique you for the past four years? Furthermore, with fans like these who needs haters? I guess you’re the most coordinated person on earth. Critique his play, but the name calling is immature.

I guess the Celtic fans felt the same about JJ when he first came out.

Interesting stat for Smoove: He was the youngest player to reach 700 blocks. Your boy Shack was second.

Please forgive me for the unedited post earlier. Sometimes it gets a little hectic typing on my cell phone.

What’s Good DOC

Peace!!!!

By Willie Coyote

September 2, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Gaining a 3-pt shot for a small forward is by no means a gimmick. As long as he doesn’t fall in love with the shot it will only help open up driving lanes and mid range jumpers for him.

I do agree that he’s the key because he is very talented offensively and with his size can be a tough matchup if another 3 tries to guard him. He is a mismatch waiting to happen if he makes up his mind to not defer everything to his teamates and makes his offense happen. If he becomes a consistent offensive threat, this team will be immensely hard to defned (provided we don’t play the walk-the-ball-up-the-court game).

By Willie Coyote

September 2, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Chris Paul did come out after his freshman year.

By Willie Coyote

September 2, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Lascho, Chris Paul did come out after his freshman year.

By ray

September 2, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Welcome back, Sekou.

With the size disadvantage that our frontcourt has, we need to be versatile. Our advantage lies in athleticism, talent, and toughness. After 3 years, I don’t know that Marvin will significantly improve his dribble drive, his toughness, or his post game. He has to have the desire to do so. Can you teach aggressiveness? Extending his shooting range is what he apparently can do, and is doing.

Woodson himself was quoted as saying that Marvin needed to get to the point where he is a consistent scoring threat, moreso than he has been. He cited also that JJ (and Bibby of course) and Smith were already at that point.

I agree with those who see Marvin as trade bait. I like the guy as a player, but we can probably use him to acquire a better fit for the team. Of course, we’ve been over this a million times and now old arguments will crop back up. I love this blog, LOL!

I agree with anybody who says that Woodson’s impact will be felt more than most.

I think the idea that Solo’s development will even be a factor is just plain ludicrous. The guy wouldn’t even go to summer league. Acie Law wasn’t too good for it. What has Solo been doing, anyway? Last I heard, the coaching staff wasn’t too impressed with Solo’s efforts, although training camp will tell the tale. To be honest, I think Randolph Morris’ development will be more of a factor than Solo’s. While I don’t know much about where he’s been working out or with whom, I can say this much: dude might not even make the team if he doesn’t show something. He’d better watch out for Othello Hunter, too….that kid is hungry…and we all know what Woodson thinks when it comes to effort and hustle.

LL Cool Scott, I agree that Horford has to fine tune some post moves. The ones he had in the playoffs weren’t too bad, though. And, he also has what looks like a decent 15-footer. The key in my mind to all of this is Woody’s willingness to run some offense through him, and getting Horford’s teammates to buy into that concept.

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

WC I stand to be corrected, but he played two years at Wake Forest

By Ramon

September 2, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I agree with you in most years that would be good. However, its no question the Hawks have the talent (at least in starting line up) to compete with anyone they play in the first part of the season. With the Hawks, it has always been about the mental aspects (and coaching, or lack there of). I’m saying the last time we seen them on the court together, they were playing better than we ever seen them. I think by having a tougher schedule (on paper) to start off, it will hopefully make them concentrate more.

The Hawks biggest problem is they tend to play down to their competition, not that they are heavily outplayed by ‘better’ teams. And I’m hoping with the ‘experience’ they gained, now they will be able to play with anyone. Last season, I would’ve feared them losing to Chicago more than Dallas (although they handled the Bulls quite nicely on one Sunday evening).

The boys of last season would’ve started 3-9 easily with this record, but the three wins would’ve came against the best teams (aside from Boston). But hopefully the MEN, who came out of that playoff season, will finally be able to sustain their awareness.

By ray

September 2, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Ramon, let us hope so. I expect to see increased maturity. I expect to see a better team out there overall. I’m hoping for an improved and more confident coach. I’m looking for more wins. And not just a couple more wins. I’m really waiting for training camp, which will begin to tell tales about who has progressed how much…

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

September 2, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Lac(k)sho(w),

As a point of rhetoric, brilliant tactic to deflect the criticism. Where this an ecclesiastic affair then the whole “casting stones” paradigm would be apt, however this is a basketball blog. If it is any solace to you however, you are right- I am human, which is to say imperfect. There. Feel free to critique my posts all day, in fact I encourage it- makes for a more lively blog.

Oh where to begin… CP3 left as a college sophomore and DWill as a junior, so they weren’t quite as seasoned as you aver. Duck is actually the same HS class as Smoov and Al- which is to say that all would be rookies now had they not left early, so the age debate is highly subjective.

Duck has improved each season, this is no doubt true statistically, but his impact has maintained a very minimal effect. Just to draw the distinction, I do not hold his draft status in relation to his peers against him. I only hold his “potential” against him- which is to say that he can do more than he has thus displayed. If it is wrong of me to do then I suppose we should all temper our expectations and allow him to settle for mediocrity he seems destined to achieve.

It seems very dubious for people to miraculously expect some sort of breakout from Duck in year 4, when his biggest hindrance hasn’t necessarily been skill, though some argument resides there, but mindset. Will he all of a sudden be more confident as the two players around him get better? Maybe a healthy Bibby will kick start him. Perhaps Joe getting a couple minutes more rest. I actually do hope that he somehow finds the right confluence of factors to turn potential into (more) production. He is not a bust nor is a star- he seems to be average, and what’s worse, almost seems comfortable with that in games.

Also he’s called Duck because of his uncanny waddle that propels him up and down the court. Don’t worry, it’s a term of endearment….sorta. I think we’re all hoping that one day it’ll be “Swan”.

RISE UP

By ray

September 2, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

#21=top 50, 1st ballot, I’m impressed with the assessment, the freshwater fowl analogy aside (but funny). I know I couldn’t have said it better myself…

By Marvin can't carry the **weight**

September 2, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

As long as Woodson is not going to have an open audition for the small forward position Marvin Williams will be the lynch pin to the Hawks winning consistently. But adding a three-point shot isn’t going to help anything…I’ve been saying this since he got here he lacks the intensity and aggressiveness needed from that position. Instead of the being a go getter he simply sits back and waits for the game to come to him. I really think that he’s afraid to mix it down low; which is why he has decided to take his game farther from the basket.

Marvin is just a confused kid going into his forth year he should have more of an ideal of what this team and city expects from him. He spends he’s off season gaining weight but works on his long range shoot. If he wants to add the long shoot to his game he should have lost weight, his defense was already suspect because or his foot movement. Remember game seven, he was trying to run down Rondo after a miss…can you imagine what’s going to happen when he misses a three, ten to fifteen pounds heavier!!!

By smartguy

September 2, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

The “insider” that doesn’t see any value in a 6’9” three point shooter is probably coach Woodson. At the very least, it tells you what a bunch of idiots the Hawks’ brass is.

Sekou, is it possible that whoever is the new moderator on the fans blog will call things like they see them, rather than playing politically correct the way you have to?

By fudd21

September 2, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

I actually agree with the article. I think MW is the key as he has more offensive ability than both Josh and Al. I think he will become a 20ppg player in this league as he has the ability to shoot and his post game has improved. By the end of the season he had a nice little jump hook that he didn’t have at the beginning.

I disagree with many of you who think he will be trade bait. At least not traded for a center, maybe another SF but not a center. Reason being is simple. Ray you and Ando have talked about balancing out the team. If MW is traded and we slide Josh to 3 and Al to 4 then we need to bring in a big man than can shoot from the perimeter i.e. Okur, Bargani, Miller. I think Woodson and Sund are more traditional in the building of a team and wouldn’t do that. Playing Josh at 3, Al at 4 and a traditional center (one who plays with his back to the basket 10 feet in) would not be balancing the team and give us good spacing.

I think his adding a 3 point shot is actually a good thing. In running your half court offense you need players with the ability to space the floor. That opens up lanes for others to operate. If he can shoot the shot and opponents have to respect it that gives JJ, Josh, and Al more room to operate.

By smartguy

September 2, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

The “insider” that doesn’t see any value in a 6’9” three point shooter is probably coach Woodson. At the very least, it tells you what a bunch of idiots the Hawks’ brass is.

Sekou, is it possible that whoever is the new moderator on the fans blog will call things like they see them, rather than playing politically correct the way you have to?

By Sautee

September 2, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Ramon

From your 11:24 a.m. post:

With Evans, JJ has the first chance to not be required to guard the teams best perimeter player.

As I asked BA before, just how many minutes do you think Evans will get?

Marvin will certainly start and play starters minutes. If we go “big” a few times per game, Smoove may get some minutes at the 3 with Horford at 4 and Zaza or Morris at 5. I only see Evans playing 10-12 minutes a game unless Woody has changed his spots. And yes, perhaps if JJ is out there with Evans at the same time, he’ll take a few minutes of guarding the top perimeter player off of JJ’s back, but it will NOT be a big factor. Unless he beats out Marvin and starts at the 3. Which I’d be fine with, except that it might lower Marvin’s trade value.

Manny

Spot on. Woody is the key. And we should know something 15 games into the season.

Kirk

Agreed that Marvin’s value may be higher in a trade.

Smoove has improved every year so far, so I think that it’s likely he will again. And yes, it’s fair to say that he needs to show he’s worth the new contract (that should be easy, given any progress at all).

But once again, if Woody runs the same offense as last year we won’t break 40 games. He’s GOT to step it up.

By Stefan

September 2, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Thank god your back. I was going crazy! I check on AJC’s Hawks news hourly and the LONG pause in new news was killing me on the inside and you know, no one can rely on hawks.com for hawks news since they update like every couple weeks, so annoying. But yeah, welcome back, i’ll be looking for new updates from you Sekou. And I agree with you Marvin is a more of a catch and shoot guy who could be like Sasa Vujacic if he worked at it, but he has potential to be so much more with his athleticism and body frame.

By BA

September 2, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Williams expanding his range will necassarily take away from his post game. That’s what the added muscle is for. And if he’s going to play the three for us, he needs a consistent three-point shot.

I think Evans will see about twenty-plus minutes a game. Same for Murray. It will all depend on their performance, Sautee- but either way I guarantee Woodson will use the bench more now that he has a contract, plus he’ll actually have a semblance of a bench this year.

I’d look for more offense from Johnson since he won’t have to play stellar perimiter defense (alone) this year.

By ray

September 2, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

fudd21, actually I agree with the latter part of your post. Marvin extending his shooting range is a good thing, and we would need that to increase the versatility of our starting frontcourt.

I haven’t forgotten the idea of bringing in a perimeter-capable center. I still like it. I have said in the recent past that I don’t think this is a concept that lives within Woodson or Sund’s mind either (especially when looking at Sund’s draft history), so I definitely agree with you there.

It appears that at least for now, we will be going with the frontline as it is. It makes no sense to me for Marvin not to develop his perimeter game. Josh and Al are already doing the inside work and Marvin has the nicest shooting stroke, with a penchant for the midrange jumper. Nobody says he has to shoot several 3s a game. Some people keep talking in extremes, like someobdy is saying Marvin is trying to be a full time spot up set shooter. Whatever. Where would so many other players be if they had not developed and expanded their games?

Besides, I ask again: can you teach aggression? We might be seeing what we’re going to get right now. Or not. Who knows. We won’t know until the season gets going. The way I figure it, if we’re going with this frontcourt, then we need for Marvin to be the perimeter oriented guy, period. Can’t have all three guys crammed up under the basket.

I have no idea what Marvin could or will be traded for, or even if he will be traded. Like I said earlier, if this lineup can get us deep into the playoffs, then I can’t say anything bad about it.

By cp

September 2, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Great replies so far on this one. Glad we have a new blog up. Marvin has the potential to be a great player but we have been saying that for the last 2 or 3 years. His lack of aggresivness really hurts him. He has all the tools but is too willing to defer to others. I like him having a 3 point shot in his game but I tend to agree with the insider. Marvin looks horrible at times when he is driving towards the basket. He dribbles the ball of his foot, it gets swiped easily, or he crashes into whoever is guarding him. If he could handle the ball better while driving to the hoop he could easily be a 20 ppg scorer. He has to finish at the rim better. I think I can count on one hand how many and 1’s he had last year. He is too gifted and athletic to not be able to finish better.

The key however is Woodson. The guy has got to show that he gets it this year. He has to learn to use his bench more, take advantage of mismatches, stop taking out guys who have a hot hand. and add more than 2 plays to his offensive playbook.

By Glenn

September 2, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

How many 10 to 15 foot jump shots did Marvin Williams miss ? He was very bad during the playoffs . The Celtics quit guarding him so he could continually miss that wide open jump shot . He was so bad . I hope he grows from that .

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Duck to Swan I like that. However, I wasn’t trying to deflect Marvin’s criticism. I guess, I’m more of a forward thinker, and I look at the big picture. I refuse to remain stagnate in thought. We’re quick to pass judgment without including situations that may have hindered Marvin’s progression. CP3&Williams are great players, who happened to land in great situations. Do we dare compare those teams to Atlanta, at the time they were chosen? I like Woody, but come on. The only plays he new for the first two years were clear out and let JJ take 40 shots a game. Hell did Woodson ever take JJ out (Sarcasm)

It seems very dubious for people to miraculously expect some sort of breakout from Duck in year 4, when his biggest hindrance hasn’t necessarily been skill, though some argument resides there, but mindset. If I’m not mistaken, the coach could be a key factor to ones mindset. I’ve played sports for 30 years. I’ve played on the college level and below, and coaching has a lot to do with ones mindset. Marvin in high school, as a senior, he averaged 28.7 points, 15.5 rebounds, 5.0 blocks, and 5.0 assists per game. Now as a coach how do we get this productivity in the NBA? That’s the question that needs to be answered. I’ve seen coaches kill player’s progressions by not instilling confidence. Marvin has a lot of pressure to deliver. He will be forever linked to, two of the best point guards in the game right now. Can he handle the pressure? We’ll see this year!!!!! My man you make excellent points, but I just think this kid is going to play his azz off this year. He’ll always have that waddle. If you haven’t notice he has a large behind lol. I’m a married man so spare me with the gay jokes. No disrespect to Gay people!!!!

Marvin can’t hold the weight. Have you been to Chapel Hill this summer? If you have, please give us more insight on Marvin.

Ray it’s been a long time my friend. I remember the first time we locked horns years ago.

We can debate our behinds off, but only time will tell. It would be nice to see you guys at a game.

By ray

September 2, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

BA, have to agree. Learning a new trick doesn’t change who you are. Expanding your game makes you better. Gerald Wallace has always been able to run, jump, dunk, and score in transition. Imagine if somebody had told him he shouldn’t bother with shooting midrange from midrange or further. There’s no way he’d be the player he is now. He’d be one-dimensional.

Besides, I thought that a more complete perimeter game helped when it came to trying to ramp up the dribble-drive game. Something about the opponent having to respect your jumper and what not.

By ray

September 2, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Lascho, indeed it has. Life treating you well? Still in the service of Uncle Sam? Owe you a debt for that, thanks for your service.

We’ll meet up at a game some time this season. Bank on it, bro’. As you say, time will tell. I’m looking forward to a more exciting, winning team.

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Just think if Morris wakes up. I think we will see more production out of him. A hometown kid, playing for his hometown. This is make it or break it for Randolph Morris. I wonder how long it’s going to take for him to earn a nickname.

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Ray

No Sir, I’m not in the service anymore. I was a Dessert Storm Vet. You owe me nothing, just keep our communities safe. I know you have your hands full Bro,and we’ll meet up at Phillips. 1st round is on me. Life is good, I hope all is well with you.

By ray

September 2, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

I vote for “Big Dopey” if he doesn’t light that fire….

I still say there’s a better chance of him getting it going than Solo….but what do I know. Only the true fans who walk the sidelines of somebody’s high school know anything at all….heh heh

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

No Respect

Hollingers Blog

Joe (Stanford): How many games do you think it is going to take before Mike Woodson finally gets fired?

John Hollinger: (4:13 PM ET ) Depends how they start. His extension is only for two years and he’s working for a new GM, so if they start 8-15 or something he could be out mighty quick. But the owners seem to like him so it would take some real underachieving for them to make the move.

Paul (Augusta): John Don’t sleep on the Hawks this year. That young talent is finally becoming not so young anymore. Where do you see them finishing in the East this year?

John Hollinger: (4:15 PM ET ) True, but they have no depth at all and they’re still a bit small up front. They’re going to have trouble matching last year’s win total, much less exceeding it, with the health of the starting five being the primary determinant.

By Scot Waldrop

September 2, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

I think it is very important that every player on the team be able to shoot their position, and if Marvin is going to play SF in the NBA he needs to be a 3 pt threat. That said, if he is never more than a one dimensional player, he’ll never be a consistent scorer. A consistent jump shot should allow Marvin to creat off the dribble for his own shot as well as teammates.

The same could be said of Josh Smith. Unless he develops a better outside shot, or a more fundamental post game, he will never be a consistent threat. I have always thought he would be the ideal 6th man because his game really falls somewhere between the sf/pf position.

I truly think the key to the Hawks season will be the PG play from Mike Bibby and Acie Law.

By doc

September 2, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

this is the year every player is going to play up to our expectations and their own god given abilities. it is going to be sooo much fun!

go hawks!

By JD

September 2, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Marvin still has a post players lower body and an outside players upper body unless the weight training has made a significant difference in his upper body.

Gerald Wallace is a gazelle compared to Marvin and Chales Barkley is the only similar body to Marvin from the waist down who played SF. The comparison stops there.

I still believe expecting much more from MW than he has shown is folly. Yes, he is still young, but there have been precious few players who have shown so little in 3 years and ultimately become outstanding performers.

MW would be an exception if he ultimately produces 8-10 rebounds and scores more than 15 a game - such numbers would likely be all the Hawks would need from him.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

September 2, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

A couple things:

A player should always seek to improve his game, but there is something to be said about attaining a certain proficiency with what one can already do. I don’t know if Duck has reached that with any phase of the game yet, excluding maybe actual ft’s. The question posed by Sekou doent have to be an either/or proposition. It’s as Ray indicates, say Duck moves to taking 1 3pt a game, not much by NBA standards, that will be an 8 fold increase in his attempts. I could live with that. That said however, he NEEDS to develop his dribble/drive game because that’s how he can most help the team- get to the line and get opposition into foul trouble. Shooting one three a game will just capitalize on defensive lapses as opposed to creating mismatches. It’s not as if our current 4,5 can’t knock down a shot from time to time so the middle is only but so clogged. And knowing Duck, he’d only take but so many shots.

With regards to the situation players fall into, that is both relevant and not. Relevant because of course players are subject to talent around them to a point, but even in that players are generally slight variations of themselves- that speaks to the mindset issue with Duck v Smoov or even Zaza. How often would Duck even attempt to take over a game when most of the starters were out? Chills suffered from the same problem, but he was much more actively trying to make things happen without the ball.

It’s not relevant because A) Woody is still the coach and B) Smoov and Al have found ways to persevere despite Woody’s worst efforts. And if you cite Duck’s HS numbers he obviously was doing something with his coach. Roy Williams is (or will be) a HOF coach so he’s had the tutilage thus far. Maybe it could be “what happened to Duck”, not saying that Woody is a good or even avg coach, just sayin. Interestingly enough to your example, Jerry Sloan is notoriously hard on rookies but DWill has come around. B Scott was run out by the onetime consensus best PG in J Kidd, but CP3 is clearly flourishing. Again, just sayin… Part of being/becoming a man (which Duck is btw) is not allowing others to speak for you, but your play to speak for itself. As it stands now Duck is just a little to quiet for comfort right now.

Oh yeah if we’re not indulging in “gay (e)” jokes, I emplore all the Duck bashers to please cease and desist on your behalf. Ha. (I’m more upset for those who don’t get it than at those who don’t find it funny).

RISE UP

By some sense

September 2, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Get over it:

Childress is gone like a wild duck in winter, and he probably ain’t comin’ back. Why should an organization on the move - yes, you read that right - hold cap space with a qualifying offer??? I would imagine two or three guys we’ve got can “roam the baseline”.

Ownership and Management are who they are, and they’re NOT goin’ to Greece or anywhere else. So all the carryin’ on about idiots, etc., puts your panties, not theres, in a wad.

A fact:

The Hawks are a ton better now than they were this time last year; this time next year they’ll be a ton better again.

Twom things that have to happen NOW:

Law’s gotta step up; Williams has gotta break out.

If they both do, watch out.

By The Flash

September 2, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

Marvin’s mid-range game is terrific. For him to produce more, the Hawks need to progress in their evolution away from thinking “JJ” whenever they have the ball and are not shooting it their own selves.

For his first two seasons here, if people could not get it directly to JJ, they were trying to get it to someone who could. They played what I would call predictable and unimaginative style that made players dumb down their intelligence to fit Woody’s vision of sell the superstar. Nobody bought it, most particularly the fans.

That began to change last season, with the arribal of Mr. B. Mr. B. is impressed with JJ, as any sane basketball man would be. However, he is not in awe of him, and will not play as if he should be. That makes other players, particularly Marvin, much more of a factor.

If the ball moves without an objective of getting JJ a look every possession, Marvin will produce for this club in a big way. If it doesn’t, blame Woody and Gearon.

Keeping Woody around is dangerous because he stands as a symbol, boldly stands as a symbol on the sidelines in each and every game, when this club brought in bright young talent and insisted that they play stupid.

If Woody wants his players to perform more effectively, he must find a way to stand for something other than get the ball to JJ. If he can pull that off, he is a better man than most.

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

drmaryb:

Your thoughts on “duck” becoming a “swan” in ‘08-‘09.

By Stefan

September 2, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou,

Can you give any updates on Josh Smith? I heard he’s beefed up, gained muscle. and is ripped now, any truth to this? I know it’s true for Marvin, but I mostly focus my attention on the true rising star of Atlanta, Josh Smith.

Please, respond.

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

Flash Whatz good? I agree with you 100%

By Ken Strickland

September 2, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

I agree that it would be a vast improvement if Marvin stepped his gm up. But, it’s not Marvins responsibility to make that decision. His responsibility is to operate effectively within the context of the OFF. If the basic OFF doesn’t allow him that opportunity consistently, it’s on Woodson to create those opportunities through his OFF, and our PG’s to execute it. If the OFF is consistently running pick and roll or isolation, exactly how is Marvin, or any other player, going to be aggressive without the ball and clearing out?

If you want more production and aggression from Marvin, design an OFF and run plays that puts the ball in his hands where he can be more aggressive and create more OFF. We don’t need Marvin, JJ, Bibby, Smoove and Horford all trying to be more aggressive and creating more OFF without some sort of preconceived design. I believe that’s one of the major complaints were heard from JJ after the Boston series.

If we intend to progress this yr, we have to expand our OFF beyond the one on one and isolations that feature only one or two players. That expansion has to come from Woodson. His OFF must be designed to utilize the talents and abilities of all scorers. When you have an OFF that caters to 1 or 2 players, like LA(Kobe), Cleveland(Lebron), Denver(AI, Melo) etc, there will aways be complaints about certain players not stepping up when the others are off. Detroit and San Antonio don’t have that problem because their OFF’s are designed to spread the wealth and/or allow players to involve themselves by playing off a certain player(Duncan).

We need an OFF that spreads the wealth, since we don’t have an inside threat like Tim Duncan or KG to play off. Again, that’s up to Woodson.

By ray

September 2, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Scot, Woody himself called Josh Smith a consistent offensive threat. I wouldn’t call 17.2 ppg inconsistent. A slight change in shot selection and a minor increase in free throw percentage makes Josh a 20ppg scorer. He need only average 2.8ppg more to reach that plateau. Nobody questions a 20ppg scorer, do they?

Lascho, glad to hear it actually. Glad to know one of ours made it home. See ya round…the blog and Phillips.

By doc

September 2, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

lascho. you decided to come out of hiding? you writing anything with that lit degree wasnt it?

good thing hollinger isnt a fan or he would be hounded a bit for saying what a few of ummmm, us, have said here. shame on him!!! out with the hound!!!!

cant wait for the season to begin to see a few questions answered or even the preseason to see if acie is ready, speedy healthy, marvin with a long range bomber, bibby hitting on all cylinders,. etc, etc. etc.

By ray

September 2, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

I’d like for everybody to be healthy, that’s for sure. And motivated. A healthy, motivated group of guys are constantly pushing, testing, and encouraging each other. With good health, we’ve definitely got a leg up on things.

By Melvin

September 2, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

Yep. The season is nearing as the blog heats up…. I think Marvin should pattern his game after Jamal Mashburn. They are very similiar in size and ability. If he could improve his ball handling skills like Jamal, he would be more effective off the dribble. I think he should make his living inside the 3pt line. Like Jamal he has a nice mid-range jumper. Like another blogger said, i think he has too much of a leap on his jumper to be a good 3pt shooter (hopefully he proves me wrong). If he would be a little more agressive, I think he could be a 20pt score like Jamal Mashburn was…

By Sautee

September 2, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

doc

Nice to see that you’ve jettisoned that annoying negativity. ;-)

By Mike is back

September 2, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Nothing stokes the fire on this blog more than the discussion about MW potential, except for Woody coaching of course. Heh Heh!!!!

But these are inside guys that have their pulse on the NBA making these comments. If you think about it what they said, makes a lot of sense. On a nightly bases no other player position will consistently have a bigger mismatch when their on the floor for the Hawks than Marvin, so it’s not folly when guys that are paid to evaluate NBA talent making these statement.

Ken, I agree with 100% bro and Flash right on point. How many times have you seen Marvin or Smoove on fire, and Woody take them out the game until they’re ice cold, than expect for them to catch fire again. It is especially difficult to do that with young player because their still perfecting their craft.

I think that with the departure of Chill, Marvin has moved up the food chain. He’s knows he will be expected to help filled the void created by Chill departure. I also feel with the arrival of Sund, Woody will have no choice but to evolve and open up the offense to incorporates more of the bench, and take advantage of mismatches, or he want be the coach, “Right!!!”

Lest hope that at the very lease, Woody trust Bibby enough to allow him the freedom to run the offense. If Bibby is allowed to run the offense, I that think everyone touches will increase. I also think you will see Bibby demand that all of these guys step their game up.

By ray

September 2, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

Ken, it’s funny that you say that. JJ was complaining about the young guys running wild because there were no plays run other than JJ Iso, as you well know. Marvin’s lack of aggression made it difficult for him to go and “make things happen.” Smoove’s aggression is exactly what led to him having some of the bad games, and some of the awesome games he had, even in the playoffs. The problem is that the offensive system has been so disjointed and primitive that nobody was feeding off of anybody. They were all doing their own thing (although Horford was clearly helping both JJ and Smoove get into their groove by making smart decisions on the block with the ball in his hands, i.e. the playoffs).

You’re right: that’s on Woody. A team built like ours has to spread the wealth just like Phoenix and Golden State have done. Not saying that our team should pattern exactly after them, but look at the similarities in roster build. Both teams had several players who consistently scored in double figures all season. But they are more controlled. Oddly enough, control is fluid. Fluid is controlled. And Fluid is smooth. That’s what the game is supposed to do: floooooowwwwww….like water does. Adapting to it’s surroundings constantly, taking what is given, but never being deterred from it’s objective.

Heh. Anyway….

That’s what JJ misses. What he had in Phoenix. What he should have here. Let it flow, and we win games. Hoping to see it happen.

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Doc I’m working on it. Coaching, Working, and School has me consumed. Let alone my three teenagers. My oldest is in college in Gainesville (university of Fla). She’s in her second year, but she’s a Junior (very very intelligent) My son he’s a senior (hard headed, but he can ball). My 7th grade daughter is taking advance classes. Then we have my youngest in first grade (he thinks he runs the show) I coach his soccer team. He played on a select team this summer and the won nationals, so in Janurary he’ll be playing in the world championships in Disney World.

So as you see my friend I’m a very bust man. I have to admit it feels good to be back with my Hawks Fam.Hopefull we can all me up at Phillips. I visit Hawksquawk.net too. It’s a really good website.

By Sekou K. Smith

September 2, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Stefan,

Josh has beefed up. I’m the one who wrote about it here a few weeks back. Saw him at a pro am game.

I’m actually tracking him down tomorrow for an interview that will be published later. I’ll have more details after seeing him.

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Mike Ken

You nailed it. How many times have you seen Marvin or Smoove on fire, and Woody take them out the game until they’re ice cold, than expect for them to catch fire again. It is especially difficult to do that with young players because their still perfecting their craft

Now here’s the confidence killer. Law will come into the game and make one mistake, and then Woody snatches him out. How do you expect the guy to develop? Law was the truth in college, yet Woody kills his confidence, because his job was on the line. That’s why JJ played so many minutes. There were several times when Woody should’ve set Bibby down, and played Law.

Woody has to do better.

Then my other friend stated Marvin never stepped up last year, when JJ was out. If I recall, Marvin led the team in scoring several games.

This year Woodson has to have confidence in his team, and play them accordingly.

By Sautee

September 2, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

BA

I hope you are right about Mo and Flip playing 20+ minutes. I’d love to see a looooong bench and starters in the low 30’s with their minutes. I’d particularly like to see Acie play 20 (or more) minutes per game.

But Woody will have to change for that to happen, and will he? Or can he?

Or, maybe he can’t, but Larry Drew can. ;-)

Lacsho

Welcome Home, bro’

By Lacsho

September 2, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Sautee

Thanks!! But Woody will have to change for that to happen, and will he? Or can he?

That’s the million dollar question!!!!

By doc

September 2, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

sautee, i apologize for my previous improprieties. i will hold any relevant observations and only speak from the perspective of a true fan rather than what i had become. i a now involved in a very good 12 step program to become a better fan of your atlanta hawks. it is so reassuring to be able to live and let god. i hope you and everyone else will forgive me as i have done to myself.

see the braves are ahead by an extra point in a titan defensive battle. if they can get a field goal in the next inning they might be able to ice this one away.

lascho, this is my first year to not do the select soccer thing in 13 years. my senior high schooler girl decided to forego her last select soccer season when her club decided to join with another club. she was sure she didnt want to play in college and felt cross country would be enough for her this year. it was a little bittersweet to see her last game at state cup this past may. didnt seem like that long ago she was just starting out in select.

i got a smart daughter in uga and a adrenalin freak son, former keeper, running ambulances in the city doing his thing to take care of folks. quite a spread you got. reminder it goes fast so if you disappear again we understand.

By doc

September 2, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

a safety in the last inning wins it for the braves.

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

doc:

Nice football analogy re: the BRAVES. Hey, if you can’t out pitch ‘um, out score ‘um. Come on over to CHOP CHICK’s and give me yours on the future of the BRAVES franchise. So far I’ve gotten the idea that LIBERTY MEDIA may be a front organization for the ASG. Don’t forget next spring’s double header. See ya’ in the funny papers.

By richbrave

September 2, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

ray:

Think WOODSON will develop some offensive sets where BIBBY can operate in space or will he stick with his tried and true, insisting that MIKE adapt his strengths to the same old coaching style.

By doc

September 3, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

rich, i think it may be a long time getting back as the well looks dry. wren is hopefully going to do some miracles this off season but the plan was doomed to fail last year. this is the second year in a row they have put money or hopes on injured arms. last year was soriano and gonzalez and this year on three old guys showing wear and tear. i got a little hint of vapors when smoltz was talking about having six starters to cover the age and injury issues. all the constellations were necessary to line up to get us through it all and didnt. i dont think you can call it all bad luck.

maybe worse is the defense, bats and lack of intelligent plays in the field. the discipline has been missing on offense but now it has invaded the defense. honestly i cant watch much of it. played the game too much to see it chopped up that way.

yup rich games on in the spring.

By Mike is back

September 3, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

Doc, I’m not sure what was all said, because I only read comments relevant to BBall, but given length of the last blog and the fact our main man Sekou was getting his much deserved Blogcation, we all can get caught in the moment sometime. I’ll tell you one thing Bro, I still remember you being one of several cats that gave me a warm welcome back to the blog at the beginning of last season when I came back from my battle with the big C. I don’t post that much, but I think I speak for everyone when I say,”You’ll always be Folk around this space dawgggggg!!!” Heh Heh

Sekou, can’t wait to your read piece on Smoove. On another note in regards to Solomon. I know the last time you responded to a blogger about Solo, you vehemently reiterated the fact that management was very displeased with Solo decision to bypass summer league play. I’ve also read the rumors that the Hawks was shopping Solo, which I thought was laughable given the fact that he’s only played in what ten games in two years or is it three years, “Ochaaaaaa!!!!!!!”

Is Solo so far off the radar of the Hawks that it would be a waste of time to do piece on him. I know I’m in the minority, but I was curious to see if you have seen him or talked to him.

By BLUE HAWK

September 3, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

I’d rather trade Marvin for someone who actually makes a difference on the court, someone like David Lee.

David Lee scores as much as Marv (even more) with fewer attempts, since he shoots a high percentage.

He gets the ball more than Marv, he’s a tremendous rebounder, he gets his hands on the ball through steals and loose balls.

We can now let Smoove play three if we wish.

But I think it’s best to play

Horford C Smith PF Johnson SG Murray SG Bibby PG

This team opens up the floor and will be a high scoring five.

Joe can take on the opposing team’s SF, a lighter defensive load as opposed to chasing an opposing shooting guard all game.

Look out for Randolph Morris.

I’m betting he’ll make a statement in camp since he knows he owned Horford during college. Morris has already been in the league for 2 years so he ain’t no rookie. He’ll surprise a lot this season.

If he is given minutes he’s not far from replicating Horford’s rookie numbers.

This is not a bad line-up

Morris C Horford PF Smith SF Johnson SG Murray SG

that’s fire power man!

Both guards can play in playmaking roles. Plus you have good passing bigs in Smith and Horford. Morris will do his damage in the post, mostly gettting to the freethrow line and getting opposing bigs in foul trouble.

By Mr. iphone

September 3, 2008 3:19 AM | Link to this

I’ll never forgive B.K. for picking Marvin in the first place. Two words: trade bait.

By RA

September 3, 2008 6:06 AM | Link to this

Well, first off, I think that Marvin did a good job in that series with the Celts. Eleven points a game isn’t much in and of itself, but he was also asked to help contain one of the league’s premier scorer. Oh, and did I mention that Paul Pierce is also a premier defender in this league. Marvin did his job and the truth is that the Hawks don’t win three games without him. The sad part is that he got injured just as I felt he was beginning to come into his own in that series.

That having been said, Sekou, I have to agree with your source about Marvin Williams being more of a low-post presence. We’ve got guys that can threaten from the three point line. We’ve got big guys that can hit from down town. What we need is for our 6’9 small forward to give teams something to think about down low, to free up three point shots for guys that take them for a living. I’ve said it many times, Marvin Williams is very talented, but he’s extremely awkward in the open court and around the basket. Now, the fact that he’s managed to fill out his frame this summer might help with some of that, but REALLY needed to work on his footwork this summer. If I’d been the Hawks organization, I would have brought in a James Worthy (or dare I say, a Domonique Wilkins) to work with Marvin and get him to where he doesn’t trip over his own two feet! I mean, you’ve got some of the greatest small forwards that ever played the game still alive and still young enough to work with Marvin. Why not take advantage of that?

Anyway, all that aside, he’s a fine young player and I look forward to charting his progress.

By ray

September 3, 2008 6:25 AM | Link to this

RichBrave, I don’t know. The last thing I recall hearing from Woodson is that he is anxious to get Bibby integrated into “his system” in training camp, or something to that effect. Pardon me if that doesn’t give me the warm fuzzies.

If you want warm fuzzies about Woodson (and aren’t looking for actual evidence or reason to feel that way), look no further than Samuel. He is the one and only true Hawks fan and a disciple of the great Woodson. Hee, hee, hee!

By richbrave

September 3, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

ray:

Sounds ominous man.

doc:

It’ll be here before we know it.

By Lacsho

September 3, 2008 7:41 AM | Link to this

Doc

Thanks, I’m back for good. If I have to take that leave, I’ll give everyone a heads up.

I’m looking forward to the Smoove interview. I would love to hear something from Bibby. Hopefully he will be fully healed, and back to his old self.

By Sekou K. Smith

September 3, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

Haven’t seen Solo in over a month Mike. But I’m sure he’ll be around in the coming days as I troll around Philips Arena looking go players.

For what it’s worth, Solo still has a roster spot with the Hawks. He’ll have his chance to solidify that spot with a huge training camp.

By Mike is back

September 3, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Sekou, Thanks for the feed back on Solo. It will be interesting to see if he can man up against Hunter and Morris. I know it’s a pipe dream or too much Kool Aide, but I’m looking for this cat to come in and compete for his roster spot. This is yet another intriguing element of the up coming training camp,”Right.” Man is it soup yetttttt!!!!!!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By doc

September 3, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

mike all is good man just playing a bit here. how is your youngster, about a senior now? still doing her sport thing? got to catch up with yours now i got a bead on lascho’s. throw in jhan we got some keepers about the same age.

By Mike is back

September 3, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Ray I got nervous as a rabbit trap in a shoe box when Woody made that statement about he was anxious to get Bibby integrated into his, I said to myself ,”What System!!!” lol

By jhan

September 3, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Lascho, you have a freshman in college & a son in 1st grade? Hats off to you brother! You must have the patience of a saint.

This season is huge for Marvin personally & for the Hawks. I expect to see this kid really put forth the effort to be a consistent player. He needs to produce for his next contract. If he does, that only makes the Hawks better.

It would be nice if every game our opponents had to worry about JJ, JS, Bibby & Marvin having the ability to take over. The last 2 years have been - stop JJ and the Hawks are done.

By Ken Strickland

September 3, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

I was a huge Hubbie Brown and Mike Fatello fan back in the day. I use to attend the teams practices when they were coaching. However, I started noticing a trend amoung the players after a certain point in the teams development. I’ve noticed the same problems with Larry Brown. They are all excellent coaches, especially when it comes to developing young teams and young talent. They are also control freaks, and all eventually develop problems with their players.

Mike Woodson has a simular problem as far as needing to be in absolute control. I can’t put him in their category as fas as his ability to coach. The main difference is in his inability to develop a young team, and especially young players. Once the players start responding, developing and expanding their talents, and the overall team starts to progress correspondingly, you have to allow both players and team more room to expand.

And that’s where the problem starts, especially between the coach and his players. These coaches want to continue controlling every aspect of the players and teams on court movements. They want to continue restricting the players and the team to those narrowly defined parameters that were established when they 1st started to develop process.

It’s like one of us being a HC and teaching a player like DWilkins how to shoot a layup. Then, after he successfully learns how to do so, he eventually learns he has the ability to jump over everyone and forcefully slam it down. We, on the other hand, want him to stick to what he’s been taught by us and shoot layups only. Can you see the potential for a problem developing between the HC and the young developing player?

Woodson’s OFF is simple/basic because that makes it easier for him to control the players and the action. His philosophy seems to be, his OFF should benefit from the talents of his players, rather than his players benefiting from the design of his OFF. I AM SOOOO EXCITED ABOUT THE TALENT OF OUR CURRENT PLAYERS AND THIS TEAM, BUT I AM VERY APPREHENSIVE ABOUT HOW THEY WILL PREFORM UNDER WOODSON’S DIRECTION.

By ray

September 3, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Mike, you ain’t the only one, LOL!

By Mike is back

September 3, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Yea Bro my Pumpkin is still shooting the rock, she’s a senior now. She’s got a new coach this year, so she will really have to step her game up to get some PT. She’s going into your field once she graduate, she’s going to school to be a Cardiologist. My son is in school, but he’s still trying to find his way. He’s still pulling my scalp out , I would say hair, but he’s pulled it out already. Heh Heh seriously they’re both good kids, so I consider myself very fortunate.

Thanks to the advancement in medicine, and guys like your mentor, I have a new lease on life.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By govenor

September 3, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

marvin williams do not need to start launvhing from the 3pt stripe. with bibby, johnson and smith thats enough there in the starting lineup. what marvin needs to do is become a low post threat. he needs to draw fouls attacking the basket, he also needs to run the floor on the break and finish around the rim. if marvin can play just as good as james worthy was with the lakers the hawks would have a nice promising forward. i believe if management knew marvin would b a dynamite forward they would not have paid josh smith that money. thats one of the reason josh childress isnt here now. if i were the hawks i would buld around mid veterans players like what htey doing. i would trade acie law right now to the heat for james jones. they have too many 2 and 3’s in miami. jones would be a nice back up sf with hawks (plus he have that caommon last name of williams, smith and now jones).with bibby, murray and claxton they dont need law. u got a mixture of 3 pg to play against all the nba teams. if the hawks would of had claxton healthy against boston rondo wouldnt have been running around like that. they are straight at the guards with bibby, murray, claxton, johnson and evans. the forwards are ok except they need one more back up pf. soloman jones is a bust. they need a kat like stromile swift to take his spot. i think the nets will buy him out.

By Mike is back

September 3, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Oh, I would be remised, If I didn’t thank the good lord for his many blessing.

By doc

September 3, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

mike with my son i just had to finally say he was there to teach me patience. funny how things have worked out once i began to take that seriously. heh heh

By RAD

September 3, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Ken Strickland is right on target!

By khao$

September 3, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

I know, normally, the Hawks will get together before the beginning of the preseason (w/o the coaching staff) to work on chemistry. To your knowledge, is that the plan this year as well?

By Clyde

September 3, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

ROLL TIDE!!!!

By Ken Strickland

September 3, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

GOVERNOR-would you really want to go into the season with Bibby, Murray and Speedy as your PG’s? Bibby’s on the down side of his career, in the last yr of a hugh contract, and might want to go to a contender for his last hurrah. Speedy is trying to come off and stay off IR, for the 3rd time, before his contract runs out. Do you really want this teams season and its future in the hands of FMurray as your PG?

I know we could draft a PG of the future in the next draft, but why waste a pick on something you already have in Acie? We can talk about trading and replacing players on our roster all we want, but it won’t make any appreciable difference. The fact is, we all know what change really needs to be made before this team, and certain players, can elevate to the next level. Until that happens, we’ll continue to be a Ferrari(Hawks) with a faulty steering system(Woodson).

By Lacsho

September 3, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Jhan

It’s been a humbling experience. The real challenge I’m faced with is my hard headed son. He wants to play college ball, but his myspace page is displaying something else. He just doesn’t get it. If I was a college coach the first thing I would do is check a recruit’s myspace page. I’ve already shut myspace down once, and it looks like I’m going to have to shut it down again.

My wife teaches High School English and History, so really she has been my backbone. I don’t know what I would do without her. I’d probably be in jail for slapping up my oldest son.

My girls and my little one are straight and focus, but this senior (smh).

I’ve put this in the Lords hands to give me strength and patience.

Mike

I fell you pain.

Ken What’s good Ken. I agree with you about Woodson; I hope he gets it right this time around. I don’t want to hear no more excuses, it’s time to produce. (Put up or Shut up)

By Lacsho

September 3, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

I wonder what’s really going on with Speedy. He played a couple of summer league games, and then he pulled a Whodini. Talking about hitting lotto, 20 million plus down the drain. One could feed a lot of homeless people with that money.

By Sautee

September 3, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

govenor

if marvin can play just as good as james worthy was with the lakers the hawks would have a nice promising forward.

Yeah, and if JJ can play just as good as MJ, the Hawks would have a nice promising shooting guard.

Worthy is one of the Top 50 players in league history. And maybe the best finisher EVER. (That would be a fun debate!)

So yeah, we’d have a nice promising forward!

By The Flash

September 3, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Some things do get better with age. Certainly true of rayman. This is some quality, quality stuff, very etherial as well:

Oddly enough, control is fluid. Fluid is controlled. And Fluid is smooth. That’s what the game is supposed to do: floooooowwwwww….like water does. Adapting to it’s surroundings constantly, taking what is given, but never being deterred from it’s objective.

Didn’t know you had it in you rayman; so, here’s a toast, may this team, this current team, let go of the past, play with fluid control, and, in the words of the rayman, let it flow! Funny thing is, I think it just might.

By The Flash

September 3, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

BTW, by baby girl, all 5’7” of her, just turned 16, not only rules the house now that her brother is off to college but also the midfield as a junior center mid on her high school soccer team.

Steven, my little stevie boy, worked out with a really good trainer last year. He now deadlifts three and a quarter, nearly 3X where he was this time last year. He was the kind of kid when he was real young when adults brushed aside as a “nonathlete.” I just got a call from him an hour ago: one of three freshman to make the Tufts varsity soccer team. Don’t let anyone define you but your dreams!

By philip

September 3, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Where does Flip Murray fit in on this team?…Starter..bench?…ideas anyone?

By Sautee

September 3, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Samuel

From your post at: September 2, 2008 8:33 AM

All the good three point shooters basically shoot a set shot.

Are you serious?

Ray Allen, Jason Kapono, Kobe, JJ, Reggie Miller, stop me when you see a set shooter, Larry Bird, MJ, Glen Rice, Dale Ellis, Dennis Scott, etc., etc., etc..

Maybe you’re thinking of your boy “Sheed, who does have a good set shot 3. As does your “anti-boy” Nowitski. And Marion, and the Afro-Man.

But All good three point shooters?

I don’t think so.

By Sekou K. Smith

September 3, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

khao$,

Some of them have already assembled. Josh Smith, Marvin, Randolph Morris and Mario West were all on the practice court at Philips Arena playing pickup ball Wednesday. More guys have been in and out over the past two weeks, I was told, and more are expected next week.

(The eight games I saw today were a bit sloppy, as pickup games can be, but it was interesting to see these guys on the floor together. Josh and Marvin guarded each other most of the time but didn’t really go on the attack the way they will when more of their teammates show up next week. This seemed to me more like guys just getting together for some runs to get in playing shape before the real heavy lifting starts. But both Josh and Marvin look like they are in excellent shape. Marvin’s carrying his added weight well, aside from his bigger arms you can’t really tell where he’s put the weight on. This is the second time I’ve seen Josh in the past three weeks or so, and he looked a bit more streamlined compared to a few weeks back. But again, they both looked pretty good physically).

The group expected next week could very well include Mike Bibby (per one of my spies), a player I’ve been anxious to catch up with this summer but haven’t been able to track down. As for today’s session, Josh appeared to be the ringleader of the affair, dubbed the “John Beckett Invitational” – in honor of Hawks’ assistant video coordinator extraordinaire John “Beans” Beckett – by at least several attendees.

To answer your question, though, the actual unofficial workouts (track, weights and pickup games) are supposed to begin Sept. 16, with everyone on the roster expected to attend. Did I mention that all this stuff is “unofficial” workouts? After all, we don’t want to get anyone into trouble.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

September 3, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Good looking out on the update. Question as it pertains to the pervasive subject on a lot of the blogs- does Duck look any different in pick-up games or “unofficial” larger team scrimmages than he seems to when coaches/lights are on? Is he more assertive, posting up, more confident, etc? Does he show a REAL competitive side when there are less people to defer to (maybe like RMV a couple years ago)? I imagine a dude like Smoov is just a livelier version of himself, aggressive, free with shot selection.

I’d be interested, as these “unofficial” workouts commence, to hear of any discrepancies between the player “we” know in Hawks uni’s vs the players you see when people aren’t around- you know, like the 04/05 season. Ha. You previously noticed how Jack and Lou Will looked, tell us we have some “hidden potential” in the likes of _.

RISE UP

By Blast

September 3, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

By Samuel

September 3, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

I probably shouldn’t have said set shooters cause that’s making you thing 50’s or 60’s. I meant that they hardly get off the floor on their threes. Marvin looks really off balance when he shoots.

I could be wrong. We’ll see. Wont we.

By Melvin

September 3, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

RNC…. Awhhhhh

By ray

September 3, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I’ll echo #21=top 50 and say thanks for the updates.

Flash, thanks for the kudos, my man. Who knows, maybe I have been listening to you all this time, eh? If I can flow futuristic (a phrase borrowed from Jay-Z) like you, then I have been learning from the master….

Samuel, Guess what. I don’t think you’re wrong AT ALL.

I think it’s that crazy backward leg kick that makes Marvin look off-balance. In fact, it probably does put him off-balance. Funny you mention that…read his scouting report or profile on DraftExpress. They specifically mention that under the assessment of his offensive game (or was it the overall assessment….I forget). Either way, it supports your idea fully, if not in all the same words. I cannot for the life of me understand why he does it….but he does it. Must be an old habit….

And you’re right about the part of Marvin (like some set shooters) not getting off the floor much on any of his shots. It might look like he’s jumping more than he is….because of that leg kick.

You know, I used to hate the way Reggie Miller shot the ball. Don’t know why, but those hands crossing so oddly as he released it…couldn’t stand it. But I couldn’t say jack about it, ‘cause homey is one of the best shooters of all time (especially clutch time….ask Spike Lee…then stand back, ‘cause he’s gonna spit at ya). I can tell you one thing, if Marvin made shots like Reggie did, I’d have nothing to say about that leg kick either…

By HB Ando

September 3, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

Man, just got back from a second beach vacation in the last 2 weeks. I have to give it to you folks: it takes some effort to speed read through hundreds of post since my last visit, late Wednesday. Problem with being away so long, and reading so many posts, is that one cannot possibly tackle every compelling point or direct call out. Then the question is where to begin, and what to respond to.

Let’s start with Bibby. It’s not that I don’t like Bibby. But I do not believe he’s worthy of the kind of money he’s making this year (anyone disagree with that?). I also believe he’s past his prime. I also believe his best years, statistically, were the product of high octane, Western Conference, style. I also believe that he’s not worth, come next off-season, more than 8-9 million/year. If he does not agree, and he can find a team that concurs, then I think he’s gone. I do not believe that the Hawks can afford to pay him more than that, given their history of frugal team outlay, and the fact that JJ and Smith are already over $10 million, and Horford will require closer to $15 million per, in a couple of years. This is not an ownership group that will commit $10 million plus, annually, to 4 players, going forward. And then there’s Marvin, and what he will demand/command next summer.

The point is that there’s no way this franchise can pay all these guys either what they want or anything approaching market value. This point is not just about this year, or Bibby’s talent. It’s about the long-term finances of the ASG.

BA, you’re just simple. The fact that I’ve always, since before the pick was made, preferred Deng and Igoudala to Childress, does not minimize my point about the Hawks letting Childress, as an asset, and a recent top-10 pick, go, without any compensation, does not minimize its pertinence. In fact, it highlights that preference. Do you, BA, think that if the Hawks had drafted either Deng or Igoudala, that they’d have ever been so casual in negotiations, with either, in the same way that they were with Childress?

Please.

We didn’t lose Childress because he got an obscene offer from Greece (he did). We lost him, and his value as an asset, because they didn’t respect him in the same way that they would have respect Deng or Igoudala, as franchise-type players. They didn’t even respect him as much as Josh Smith, who was taken 11 picks after Childress. They lost him because they drafted a player who wasn’t good enough to start on one of the perpetually worst teams in the league. They lost that asset, without compensation, because Billy Knight made one of multiple horrible draft decisions, to the extent that they discounted Childress’ market value as easily matchable.

Lacsho, it’s pretty cool that you highlighted Hullinger’s comments about the Hawks. Why? Because in addition to having a pretty compelling statistical mind, as it relates to the NBA, he also lives here in metro Atlanta. So he’s a lot closer to the action, as it relates to the Hawks, than pretty much any other NBA team.

Here’s something I find pretty funny. I’ve been saying, for the better part of the summer, that I don’t think the Hawks crack the top-ten in the Eastern Conference standings. That opinion has led my army of critics to call me, essentially, an unrelenting hater, more focused on wishing the worst, for the Hawks, than being a fan. Yet here we find an ESPN pre-season NBA projection, built on the sum votes of 25 educated opinions, that the Hawks will end the season 10th in the East.

Hmm, I either have otherworldly sway over the national NBA media, or, I actually have a reasonably logical perspective regarding the weaknesses and limitations of both the franchise and its roster, given that my prediction has been consistent and proffered for the whole summer.

Fudd makes a really good point about the projected front court of the future Hawks. But it’s pretty much the sum of what I’ve been saying since we drafted Horford (and, going farther back, about the ultimate possibility that either Smith or Williams would need to go). I think that a front court of Smith, Horford and Duck will never be big enough to win a championship. I think that Horford should play the four, where he can be a perennial all-star. I think that Smith is most suited to play the 3, despite a shaky outside shot (which I think has the potential to be solid, if never outstanding). I think that because he’s never shown either an interest, or talent for playing inside, with his back to the basket, which is a prerequisite for being a power forward, regardless of how many shots you block. I believe that the best way to optimize that scenario is to find a non-traditional center (Okur, Bargnani, or a handful of other young guys, who can defend the five and play the high post on O).

Sam, your dismissal of Nash’s ability, as a two-time MVP, is consistent with your unfailing minimization of the very few, all-star caliber, white players in the league. I can only imagine if this blog had been in existence during the 80’s, how unimpressed you would have been with Larry Bird. As far as several posts you directed towards me related to the current presidential race, I have one question: why? Why do you care what I think about Obama or McCain? Truth is that I’m pretty disgusted, and have been for a long time, with the less than optimal candidates that both parties have rolled out to choose from. And I’m sickened by how partisan politics immobilizes this country from addressing very real, and unavoidable, long-term issues (social security and medicare funding, for one). And it’s beyond me that anyone with a working, educated mind can actually believe that either party is fully responsible for all the countries’ ills, while the alternate party is without any blame (not that I’m suggesting you are such a person, but as a general explanation of my political opinion).

Flawed roster balance. Flawed head coach. Flawed, splintered, under-funded ownership. Questionable, at best, improvement, from last year to this, compounded by tangible improvements for several “peer” franchises, in the East, leave me where I’ve been for months: the Hawks are a non-playoff team.

I guess all 25 contributing voters, who amalgamated the Hawks projected finish in the tenth slot, Eastern Conference, are all agenda-driven haters of the home team.

Because the likelihood that all those educated opinions, summed up, and aligning with old Ando’s projection (preceding theirs by months), couldn’t possible by evidence of, or supporting logic for, Ando’s irrational hatred for his local franchise.

BA, you, of all people, should appreciate just how hard it is to be consistently right, given the diagnosis of mongoloid (takes one to know one, right?).

Finally, it gives me great pride to jump in on the “child” conversation. My girl is almost 4 months old, and is nearly 26 inches long, tipping the scales at 16 pounds. I figure it doesn’t really matter which sport she chooses, as stardom is inevitable (OK, as long as she doesn’t choose gymnastics, given that it seems to be a sport dominated by midgets).

By HB Ando

September 3, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

OK, there’s this “Duck” issue to address, as well. I believe it was Sam who validated his “Bibby stays” opinion, based on the belief that it is Duck who will go. So while I think it might be both, Duck would have to go for Bibby to stay. And Acie would probably need to go to. And I think that Duck is a far better bargaining chip to acquire the potential solution at five, than the expiring contract of Bibby.

But the factors and implications, from a plausible trade standpoint, for both guys, are completely different. We wouldn’t trade Marvin because we didn’t believe in his future (unless his pre-all-star performance hints in that direction).

We’d trade Marvin because we DO believe in his future. With another team. In exchange for a player who allows us to accentuate, and counter balance, the strengths and weaknesses of Smith and Horford. I still don’t understand why so many folks either discount, or fail to respond to, my comparison of the Hawks front line situation to the Jazz. Based on the logic of many folks here, relative to Smith’s blocks as justification for him being classified as a PF, rather than an SF, wouldn’t AK at 6’9 logically draw the same opinion? And given Boozer’s rebounding prowess, and post abilities (better now than Horford’s, but well within his potential, with better defense), couldn’t those same “Horford as center” apologists make an argument for Boozer as center? But if Utah played AK at 4, and Boozer at 5, neither player would be positioned for optimal performance, regardless of the numbers they might contribute.

No, what allows Utah to play AK at 3, despite a very limited offensive game, and Boozer at the 4, despite rebounding numbers that could justify “sticking” him at the five, is having the perfectly complimentary center, in Okur, to provide the net outside shooting for the front line, while still giving them the size and bulk needed to bang with opposing fives.

Why is it so hard, such a reach, for so many folks to consider what I continue to encourage?

Trade Marvin for Bargnani. Straight up or in a 2 for 2, including Zaza (who I believe still doesn’t have chemistry with either his teammates or his coach), and Parker.

Is Bargnani better than Marvin? Individually, he’s not. At least not yet. But what he does well would mesh perfectly with what Horford and Smith don’t. And his weak rebounding would be offset by the board work of Al and Josh (not unlike ‘Sheed’s pathetic rebounding efforts in Detroit).

It’s the deal that balances both teams. Does anybody really believe that the Raps can start a front line of Bargnani, Bosh and O’Neal?

They need a classic 3. And we need an atypical big. Draft slots match. Both teams would be better for it.

‘Course we could just seek out those kids from Kansas. Girls and weed don’t seem unreasonable to me, for a couple of guys killing time at a conference. But hey, I’m not Stern. So what do I know?

By Lacsho

September 4, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

Whatz Good Ando Congrats on the little one. Hollinger and expert give me a break. Your my man, but I’m not buying that.

Last year predictions from the experts:

Hollinger and crew pick Chicago to win the east, with Boston coming in third. They stated chicago would go 55-27. Chicago actually went 33-49 Furthermore, they had the Lakers in 7th. There goes credibility.

By Ken Strickland

September 4, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

LACSHO-what’s up my friend? Long time no hear. It just frustrates me to think of the potential of this team in the hands of a HC with a clue. We have so many hungry players on this team that have so much to prove.

Marvin wants to prove he’s worthy of being chosen #2 in his draft. Smoove wants to prove he’s more that just a highlight reel and slam dunk champion. Bibby wants to prove he’ll have an even greater impact this season than last. Acie wants to prove he’s better than last yrs performance and that he hasn’t lost any of his confidence or abilities. Horford wants to prove last yr was no fluke, but just the beginning of better things to come. Solomon just wants to prove he can play if given an opportunity, as well as consistent mins. Morris definitely wants to prove he’s not a bust and can produce if given an opportunity and consistent mins. Speedy wants to prove he can recover from his health issues and show he can effectively produce at this level again.

That’s a lot of motivation among a lot of players, which makes for a motivated team. What do you get when you have young, quick, fast, energetic, very talented, well motivated and well coached players? What do we end up with if we don’t have adequate coaching? MAN, I’LL BE SO GLAD WHEN THE SEASON STARTS SO ALL OF OUR APPREHENSIONS AND QUESTIONS WILL BE ADDRESSED.

By HB Ando

September 4, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Lacsho, great retort. But look deeper into the predictions. Chicago made a very questionable move to acquire Big Ben (in my opinion, from the moment it occurred), and it was rapidly clear that the team had tuned out Skiles (who is one of those coaches who’s intensity can be a kick in the pants of an underperforming team, but who’s approach quickly becomes shrill). Hullinger can’t possibly be isolated for what was a generally consensus opinion on the Bulls.

Lakers? Major question of whether Kobe would be traded, and the chemistry issues that his demand to leave a team he publicly minimized, played a huge factor in those predictions. Certainly no one expected Kobe to become a team leader, and no one predicted the Lakers would get Gasol for essentially nothing.

Every year, the press misses on a number of teams, in every sport (see the NY Giants, and the Tampa Bay Rays). But the logic that generated a composite prediction, by 25 NBA writers, of the Hawks as a 10th place finisher in the East, is consistent with what I’ve been saying all summer (in both outcome and explanation).

My point about Hollinger was that he’s not living in the northeast, or out west, and making a cursory observation of the Hawks. He lives here, so his opinion of the Hawks is probably as well-developed as his opinion on any other team in the league.

Two years ago people mocked my prediction that the Heat would win the championship. So I’m no stranger to both the limitations, and possibilities, of predictions.

The thing about the Hawks is, as was stated in the rankings, they didn’t noticeably improve their roster, while several teams who finished around or below them did. And questions about the ultimate roster payroll continue to open questions about how much we can rely on the idea that this current roster will be maintained for the full season.

But I hear you……….

By HB Ando

September 4, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

Ken, while we agree on the questionable clue quotient of the HC, isn’t his very ‘extended’ presence evidence of the larger question of the ASG’s clue quotient?

And if you dig a little deeper into the psychology of your points regarding the motivations of several of our players, given a reasonably considerate expectation that those very players have to be questioning the well-earned perception of their organization as poorly run and underfunded, will those individual ‘motivations’ present themselves in a team-focused commitment, or as an (in Marvin’s case) individually-driven opportunity to try out for the rest of the league.

Playing Devil’s advocate, will Smith’s contract be motivation for him to establish himself as an all-star, within the parameters of the best interests of the team, or, will he take his contract as justification that he’s destined to force his way into super stardom, well within his rights to demand the lead role on this teams’ offense, either alongside Joe, or, possibly, in eclipse of JJ?

How hard will Marvin seek to produce stats that will justify optimizing his contract goals for next summer? Can his individual agenda mesh with a Hawks team that already has JJ, Bibby and J. Smith, not to mention the reality that this team would be best served to focus on getting more production out of Horford?

As a fantasy hoops’ veteran, this team has an array of guys who are capable of being relevant, statistically. But they can’t all be. And the fact that the pecking order is still in great question, given conflicting individual agendas, exacerbated by expected, ongoing, team payroll commitment questions, leads to a lot of uncertainty, regardless of the reasonable points you make regarding the logic of plausible motivation for various members of the team to improve.

I see more likelihood for questionable cohesiveness than optimal coalescence and “organic improvement” of all the Hawks players. Especially given the shared concerns for the capabilities of the now-extended head coach.

I should change my post name to ‘Debbie Downer’.

Wha, wha, whahhhh…………..

By Lacsho

September 4, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

I feel you Ken, I’m ready to get this show on the road. As I watched the three playoff wins this past weekend, I must admit it was funny hearing the commentator’s kill our Hawks. According to all of the experts, the Hawks were going out in four. After the first win, they said it was a fluke. Then Kenny, Magic, and (Mr. Choker) C. Webb stated the Vets are going to put it on the young guys. Halftime of the second game they still didn’t want to give us props. All of sudden game six, we finally get a little respect. I was just shaking my head laughing. OF course the family and I were at game six, and I’m looking forward to going to the playoffs again this year.

I can’t see why people doubt this team. If I’m not mistaken we waxed Orlando several times last year. We gave the World Champions everything they could handle. We’ve the results of last year playoffs. These boy’s got a taste of the playoffs and I think their hungry now.

By Lacsho

September 4, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this

Ando I thought about that, and we can’t anticipates trades, and injuries. Honestly, though you watched the playoffs, did you count our Hawks out too? We share the same feeling about HC and ownership, but you have to admit our teams causes match up problems, and there’s no team in the NBA that can run with up point blank. (I’m dead azz serious about that) With the addition of Evans and Flip, I think we can play an half court offense too. It’s all on Woody.

By Lacsho

September 4, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this

Ok scratch the We’ve the results statement,(lol) its getting late, and I’m about to check out.

Peace

By BLUE HAWK

September 4, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

trade Marvin for Travis Outlaw.

Josh Smith should play like Chris Webber on offense and like Hakeem on defense.

Al Horford should play like Karl Malone both on offense and defense.

Randolph Morris should play like a poor man’s Shaq.

Solomoron Jones should play like Camby.

By HB Ando

September 4, 2008 2:01 AM | Link to this

Lac, the successes you highlight have a tangible impact on the way opposing teams prepare for us, as well. In the last few years we’ve beaten teams like San Antonio. If the showing against Boston is truly justification for the Hawks’ emergence to credibility, that won’t be lost on a single team we play this season, which is a drastic evolution from the way the Hawks have been perceived, league-wide, for the last decade.

I can’t objectify the literal equation that offsets the opposing impact of how much better we might be, with how much more consistently teams take us seriously. But my guess is a wash is not out of the realm of logic.

For years, thanks to Jhan’s up-close and personal seats, I’ve literally watched opposing road teams (J’s seats are about 20 feet from the opposing bench) make rotation choices that constantly suggested that they expected to pull it out, while minimizing the wear and tear on their starters. I saw it work, and I saw it bite them in the a*.

But if their is an increasingly generalized perception that this Hawks team cannot be dismissed, then those nights, when Jhan, me and Doc all observed that same gamble that the visitors could win while minimizing their starters’ minutes, should be a rapidly shifted understanding that playing at Philips requires full commitment.

I don’t know which game it was last year, but the 3 of us watched the 3rd quarter end (I’m certain that either Jhan or Doc can quote the opponent), with the bad guys down 21. And based on my observations of what seemed like questionable rotations, I told both brothers that we were going to blow the lead and lose.

And we did.

I just think whatever organic improvement can be expected, compounded by no picks and the loss of a sixth man who’s value to THIS team was probably far more impactful than his stats, off set by the acquisition of a couple of solid journeymen, suggests nothing more than a wheel-spinning status quo, in a conference that peer-level teams,includes most of said challengers entering the season with better rosters, as well as new leadership for underperforming teams.

I mean if you look at the expectedly weak Nets, can you not find a similar handful of names that, individually, share the same kind of motivation and upside that some of the players Ken highlighted? And isn’t that upside argument, that motivation to emerge as legitimate, represented on almost every team who goes into the upcoming season with question marks?

How about a Bobcats roster that rolls out Felton/Augustin at PG, bad-a* J. Rich at 2, Wallace at 3, and a 4/5, big-small rotation of May, Okafor and Nazr? Is Larry Brown a better head coach than Woody?

Knicks are mismatched to D’Antoni. But does anyone really expect them to stand pat? Given the money they’re paying D’Antoni? No way Randolph or Curry isn’t dumped by mid-season.

I think the Bucks will be better than most believe. Even with the odd decision to move Mo Williams. But if you look at the same concern I have about all the young, talented Hawks players, looking to increased their touches and shot attempts, then what the Bucks did, in moving Mo, was acknowledge that after Redd, Jefferson and the recently extended Bogut, got their touches, there simply wasn’t room to win with a guy like Mo, who needed to get his 20 a night. Enter Sessions, who averaged over 11 dimes/game when stepping in for Williams late season. And, like Marvin, Charlie V. hasn’t hit his potential, and is no less likely than Duck to emerge as a legitimate inside/out forward.

By HB Ando

September 4, 2008 2:13 AM | Link to this

Damn Hawk, if you complete the lofty comparisons, Bibby should play like Deron Williams. Heck, even if JJ just plays like JJ, or roster, according to Blue, should roughly project to Deron, JJ, C. Webb/Hakeem, The Mailman, Baby Shaq, with Camby coming off the bench.

My only concern with this analogous, dream team, is that I can only assume that the our players will play at about the same level as your hall-of-famers, sometime between now, in their careers, or as they would play if they came out of retirement.

Plus, your current lineup has us playing the equivalent of 2 PF’s and 3 centers. Given the vibe of your comparisons, why should we trade Marvin for Outlaw, when he should just play like Clyde Drexler?

By Najeh Davenpoop

September 4, 2008 3:13 AM | Link to this

Holy sh-t Ando, you have really outdone yourself this time… my thumb hurts from all the scrolling.

By BLUE HAWK

September 4, 2008 4:44 AM | Link to this

trade Marvin for Andres Nocioni.

nice one SAndo

By BLUE HAWK

September 4, 2008 4:46 AM | Link to this

nah Bibby should play like his old self

By BLUE HAWK

September 4, 2008 5:02 AM | Link to this

if Marvin wants to stay he should play like Bernard King or even better, Len Bias. yeah like Len Bias.

and no I wasnt naming a lineup of 2 forwards and 3 centers as you’re saying. i’m just mentioning what these players could be if they would just ‘dream’ a little or too much hahaha.

By BLUE HAWK

September 4, 2008 6:47 AM | Link to this

trade Marvin Williams for Tayshaun Prince

or even Amir Johnson and then move Smoove to SF and then get Childress back in the line up.

How soon can the Hawks get Childress back?

By Samuel

September 4, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

Ando,

I don’t have time to adress your whole novel but I will address a couple of things you said.

First of all. I have nothing against white players. I believe that Larry Bird is the best small foward ever. Not even close. I also liked McKale, Bobby Jones, Bill Walton, Jack Sigma, A Sabonas and plenty others. I even like Nash and Dirk. I just don’t believe that either is MVP material. They just are not tough enough when it counts most.

A few months ago we had a conversation about a certain QB in Atlanta who wore #7. What you said about Vick. I put Nash and Dirk in that category.

Why do you keep saying that Bargani can defend the 5. He cannot. He can’t even hold his position against small and power fowards. The guy is a serious liability on defense. I’d rather have Yo Boy Darko than Barganini and you know how I feel about Darko.

By Ken Strickland

September 4, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

ANDO-why bring up the SAASG? I had almost gotten past that bitter pill, and I can only deal with one at a time. I had managed to forget about the trauma they caused me during the Chills/Smoove resigning saga. Right now, I’m trying to swallow that bitter pill we call Woodson, along with his various shortcomings.

At this point, it’s out of their hands anyway. The overall roster has been assembled, and it’s in Woodson’s hands now. He will determine the final 12 roster spots and how each player will be utilized, if at all. That alone makes me a little nervous.

I personally believe we’ll be much better than last yrs team. How much better and how well that translates into victories is anyones guess. If Woodson doesn’t hold us back, we should break even.

By Lacsho

September 4, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Message to self please proof read before posting.

Ando, you make a valid point about other team’s rotations. I too think the Bucks will be a better team. However, a lot of teams look good on paper, but can they work together as a cohesive unit? This core has been together for a minute, and I think that will play a key role in the Hawks moving forward to the second round this year. The Hawks beat the best of the best, when the other team’s starters played huge minutes.

I just think everything falls on Woody now, and the players have to play to their potential.

Ken I share your pain. I had almost gotten past that bitter pill, and I can only deal with one at a time.

By ray

September 4, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Ken, I agree with you on the hunger of all our young guys….except Solo. I don’t know about that cat, bro’. Why did he not attend summer league? He could’ve used the reps, and it’s a chance to get some work in with one of the assistant coaches (who possibly could end up being the coach this year…ya never know). No reports of him seeking out some well known name to work with. Reports that we’re shopping him and that the coaching staff isn’t thrilled with him or his efforts. They may or may not be accurate reports, but for a guy who was already hurting for PT…I’m just saying. If I knew my team was out looking for big men and signed Randolph Morris (and was looking for others)…I’d be busy trying to convince them that they need not look outside of their own roster. Something tells me neither Hunter nor Morris are going to be cutting him any slack at all.

Even though Hunter is shorter by a couple inches and what not.

In other news….

The devil mus be thinking his thermostat is broken and somebody pumped freeon into his furnace. It couldn’t get any colder in hell:

Samuel likes white players, and Ando posted consecutively at a time when there’s “nothing” to talk about….and didn’t mention the “unwashed masses” even once. And then Sam and Ando actually had some dialogue (I think)! Holy Smokes! Now THAT, fellow readers, is NEWS!

Hee, hee…I know I’m wrong for that. I know that was just plain bad. But this is what happens when I’m left to my own devices on a day off….heh heh!

By Traceman

September 4, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Ando, I agree with a lot of your post but I disagree with the thought of moving Smoove to SF and trading Marvin for Bargnani in an attempt to be like Utah for several reasons.

First of all, Smoove is the best player (at least right now) between himself, Horford and Bargnani. I think that you put the best player at the position in which he will perform best and I think that position is PF for Smoove. Personally, I think moving Smoove from PF to SF would have a similar effect on his game/stats as it did for Kirilenko and it could effect his confidence in the same way. Kirilenko is nowhere near the player at SF that he was at PF. In Utah, Boozer is the best player of the 3 frontcourt players so it makes sense to have him play his best position most of the time which is PF. IF (Big if) Horford surpasses Smoove as a player, then I can see looking to move Smoove to SF or even POSSIBLY trading him for a true 5 to play alongside Horford at the 4. I just don’t think we have reached that point yet.

Second, Bargnani is nowhere near the player that Okur is. Okur is at least a decent rebounder and a mediocre post defender. Bargnani SUCKS at both. The only thing he can do is shoot from the perimeter. I like Bargnani’s height and shooting stroke but he doesn’t rebound as well as Marvin at SF and he’s supposedly a Center. Heck, Marvin can probably guard Centers better than he can.

Third, Horford is the only guy who is out of his optimal position. As Marvin gets bigger and stronger (he is reportedly up to 245 lbs), he will be a fine compliment to Smoove at SF. He is plenty long enough and he is already a solid rebounder for a SF who will likely rebound better with his added strength.

Finally, the primary reason that UT works so well is Deron Williams. You put Deron Williams out there at PG for us and I’ll guarantee you that our frontcourt will cease to be an issue. All 3 players will be more efficient and look better because Williams is just that good. Hopefully, a full year of Bibby or a much better Acie Law will make them all better in a way that is similar to what Deron does for the Jazz.

By Samuel

September 4, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Cuz,

Question. With the recent injury to MY BOY Monta Ellis and the doubt and suspicion surrounding it. Why do the organizations look the other way when these players hold these unofficial workouts and participate in these summer league pick up games at local highschool gyms then get all upset when their multimillion dollar investments get injured.

Seems like they’re are trying to have it both ways. They want them to work out and stay sharp but don’t want to accept the risk.

By Lacsho

September 4, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Ray

The devil mus be thinking his thermostat is broken and somebody pumped freeon into his furnace. It couldn’t get any colder in hell

You are killing me, where do you get these lines? lol

By Mike is back

September 4, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

ANDO what’s up. Man I would have to order a copy of Rosetta Stone to keep with your blogs. From an economic standpoint what you say about the current roster of the Hawks is true. We all would be shocked if Bibby was resigned at 15mil a pop.

While the Hawks current roster is not stacked with a ton of talent and balanced the way we would like…we don’t have a bunch of scrubs that you can just throw under the bus either. Predicting that the Hawks current roster will make the playoff is within reason.

Why give away Marvin for a bust like Bargani. We need shot blocking and rebounding at the 5, we have enough scores. Bargani can’t give us that, that’s why Toronto traded for Oneal. What happens when we play teams with Bigs that like to bang? Who guards them? AH or Smoove. We’re right back where we started.

After ten years of misery, this team is far away better than they were in the past. Why hit the panic button now. You got expiring contract coming up, training camp is only a couple of weeks away. Let these guys lock up in camp, start the season off, and see what shakes out. Surely we can get more than Bargani. Come on brooooooooooooooooooo.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By doc

September 4, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

samuel the gm addressed that in his assessment of the injury as a given occupational hazard in a way. the guys have to develop new stuff in the off season and they often do it best in the pick up games. he said it is tough to take but he isnt sure how he can say something against someone trying to get better or stay in shape.

where it is going to hurt is in the guys that played in the olympics where the intensity was higher and longer time in practice instead of more of a laid back style of pick up games. already ginobli is out to start the season. all gm’s held their breath and hoped they didnt end up on the short side of mr. lucky.

lascho from a very talented mother is where ray got it. what ray and ando have in common is mother’s that are lit teachers. i have heard some of ando’s mom’s prose and you can tell where he at least got some of his game though i think she is more selective in the use of her words. heh heh

yeah, i woke up this morning at 5 to find even though it was earlier than usual i had plenty to read until the coffee was ready.

By Clyde

September 4, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Roll Tide!!

By Ariose

September 4, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Hmmmmm…..

They are who they are??? At least in Bibby’s case I hope not.

Here’s my Blockbuster….. Bibby, Marvin AND the rights to Childress……..you guys can fill in the rest but i’m pretty sure we would get some serious stuff in return for that……..but who??? Just messin’ around, I doubt we’d get value back proportionate to what we’d be giving up, but you never know.

Oh and Sekou, Other than in Marvin’s arms I think we ALL KNOW where he put on the rest of that weight hehehe.

~S.F

By BA

September 4, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

I can’t even dignify this trade for Bargnani. Just beyond retarded. We don’t have a center so we’re going to trade our starting small forward for…somebody else’s small forward? And what, play Bargnani at center? I don’t even have to explain how dumb THAT plan is! Wasn’t the plan to STOP people in the paint? I desperately need the season to start- enough of this trade for white players/armchair GM horsesheot.

Sorry, folks- I don’t see the Hawks brass trading a guy they took #2 just for the sake of bringing in a white guy for superalphafan over here.

Maybe his whole long diatribe was just “taken out of context”…

By Ken Strickland

September 4, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

RAY-I don’t know why Solo refused to participate in the summer league. But that refusal makes training camp even more motivating and challenging for him. Now it’s a necessity for him if he wants to show he deserves to make the team.

I can see one thing very clearly. If Woodson tries to control this team and its players, as in the past, there will be a player rebellion and he’ll get canned. I’m actually conflicted. I want the team to be successful, but I want him to get himself fired as well.

By MannyT

September 4, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Now here’s a guy who has the right type of skills in the NBA to be an asset on our coaching staff.

I’ll let you guys step to the front of the carpal tunnel line keeping up with Ando.

While I’m checking out the NFL start, y’all keep the deals spinning.

I will toss in a Do you think Bargiani is still in the NBA when his contract ends? Not because of talent, but the probability that there is more $$$ for him to return to Europe. I don’t see him getting #1 pick money in the NBA for his next contract. Thus, I’d stay away from him even though he would make a good fit with the Hawks front line.

By the way, the ASG and your boy Rick seemed to have a negotiating style that dissed both Joshes. That does not lead me to believe they would have been much more proactive with any player that was a RFA—including Deng & Iggy.

…and I cannot resist the opportunity to throw one more Olympic plug in there…Chicago 2016-Oprah style.

Citius, Altius, Fortius…are you ready for some football!

By ray

September 4, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Lacsho, Doc has it right. I get my literary abilities from my mother. But even she has to ask just where I get my nutty sense of humor. I think I’m on my own with that one….LOL!

Manny! Whasssup! Yeah, I’m ready for some football. Seriously ready!

Ken, you’re just a hater! A thrice-damned Woody hater! Hee hee…and I’m yelling at you from the other side of the stove….

Honestly bro’, there’s a place called Perfect, where Woody somehow grows the same way we hope our youngsters do, just quicker. But we all know that place don’t exist, and we still can’t find what we want at Walgreen’s so guess what? We have to wait and see. Never seen a leopard change his spots over night, nor a tiger his stripes…so the benefit of the doubt is something I’m not willing to give. But even Woody supporters say that he has a much better hand to work with in this card game. He better be good, and quickly. Let’s hope that injuries don’t rear an ugly head as well. That’s excuse number 1, and I’m not tryin’ to hear it.

By doc

September 4, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

ray, i was just explaining what you have in your genes to allow you to express yourself in words, not what is in your head. no telling were that comes from.

By BLUE HAWK

September 4, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Bargnani is not even desirable. He has no positive net effect on a team. He wastes a team’s very finite shot attempts, doesn’t get the ball at all, and it’s no sweat for an opponent to score on him.

Why want this bust? He’s just a taller version of Adam Morrison. hahaha

Choose better.

Teams don’t just trade a first overall pick too, they’ll demand value in return. Why give up something of value for that useless guy?

Andres Nocioni is a good choice. He plays with fiery competetiveness. Plays his heart out. Has range and can also play around the rim. He can play effective defense and is able to get blocks and steals. His competitive spirit is what’s important and will make a difference on this team.

By richbrave

September 4, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

ray:

I thought I was ready for some football, but then I saw the GIANTS-REDSKINS game.

By Ken Strickland

September 5, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

RAY-maybe a leopard can change his spots and a tiger his stripes. I’ve done independent study on African history for over 20yrs and I’ve seen Eurocentric scholars change the spots on leopards(the Egyptians) and the stripes on Tigers(Ethiopians). The ancient Egyptians(AEGYPTOS) and acient Ethiopians(AETHIOPS) have now been reclassified as memgers of the EUROPEAN GEOGRAPHICAL RACE. This is in spite of the fact the term AETHIOP is a Greek word that means BURNT SKIN OR FACE. And, Egypt has been moved out of Africa and placed in the Middle East. Therefore, there are circumstance where a leopard or tiger can have their spots or stripes changed, so to speak. Man, we’d better get this season started soon, because I’m losing it. I just realized this post has nothing to do with basketball.

By HB Ando

September 5, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

Bargnani isn’t the first guy I’ve liked, from an upside standpoint, that a majority have discounted. Before him there was a very vocal contingent of folks who found my interest in Aldridge, starting as soon as the Marvin draft was done, to be head scratching. How many of you would like Aldridge playing along side Horford and Josh right now?

Discounting Bargnani doesn’t change my belief that he could be a tremendous player, given the right situation. But I have to hand it to the always insightful Manny T, for cleverly pointing out the very realistic possibility that a strong Euro may very well lure Bargnani back to Europe, when his current NBA contract expires. Given that Bargnani has only been in the league two years, it’s kind of ironic that some folks here are so quick to dismiss his potential, while highlighting how unfair it is to draw final judgment on Marvin.

But this argument is an exercise in futility, as the Hawks won’t be pulling off any clever trades.

They’ve still got to figure out a way to drop their overall payroll obligations, while continuing to spin the misperception that they’re fully committed to taking this team to the next level.

Hawk, that’s my point about Marvin for Bargnani. Both teams have used top picks for players who have failed to meet expectations. And both teams have an imbalance on their front courts. I know Bargnani has weaknesses. But those weaknesses would be covered by the strengths of Al and Josh, and his strengths, long-range shooting and the ability to face the basket, would compliment the weaknesses of Josh and Al.

Here’s a valid consideration for those who write off Bargnani: go back and look at Billups’ numbers, at the end of his second year, and show me any statistical evidence that he would become an elite, all-star, point guard in the NBA. Go run Jermaine O’Neal’s first two years, and compare them to Bargnani’s, and highlight any justifiable notion that he would be a star in 2 more years.

The same logic that drives the calls for patience, with Marvin, must be extended to a guy like Bargnani as well.

By Najeh Davenpoop

September 5, 2008 1:51 AM | Link to this

I think Traceman did a very good job of explaining why Bargnani would be a bad acquisition for the Hawks, but let me just throw my two cents in: Size is important, but it’s not important to the extent that you give up ability. Bargnani may be 7 feet tall, but just as the 7 foot Dirk Nowitzki is not called on to defend opposing centers, Bargnani is not suited to doing so either. I honestly think the 6’9 Al Horford can defend opposing centers better than Bargnani, and Bargnani’s lack of quickness and lateral foot speed makes him a defensive liability at the 3 or the 4. I understand why people might think he would fit well with Josh and Al, since unlike them Bargnani’s game is more perimeter oriented, but the defensive hit you take by acquiring someone like him is too much to justify giving up even Marvin. If Bargnani was even an average interior defender it would be worth it, but based on what he is and what he projects himself to be it wouldn’t be a good trade.

By BLUE HAWK

September 5, 2008 3:37 AM | Link to this

Ando,

I can’t believe you’re in love with Bargnani man.

You’re better than that. hahaha

See him for what he really is, and don’t see him for what you fantasize him of becoming.

It’s all just hype man. Just like the Yi Jianlian hype and the Darko Milicic hype, as well as the Danilo Gallinari hype.

Get yourself grounded. I knew it you are a poor scout. You have no realistic feel or eye for a players value.

By tbhawksfan

September 5, 2008 5:15 AM | Link to this

Trading Marvin is not a plausible solution. He has the potential to develop into a very strong three that could round out an incredibly athletic, yet slightly under-sized front court.

Barngnani for Marvin is a ridiculous trade, unless you are willing to sacrifice next seasons progress in anticipation of future team development. Marvin and the present Hawks are a team on the rise, they proved that last season.

I agree that it would be very nice to have an above average C to play next to Horford. I don’t think moving Smoove to the three is going to improve his game or the team.

We also have a decision to make concerning Bibby. He came in and helped the team at relatively low cost (in players). He is an very large expiring and a past his prime player. In any case, he has the opportunity to prove his worth over the first half of the season. If he does, no reasonto make any changes. If he doesn’t, we will have increadible trade options.

These Hawks window of opportunity is entering the beginning of its time. Any move should be to immediately strengthen the team without compromising the next two our three years of the team, during the peak of this groups opportunity.

It seems to me that the only realistic trade would depend on Law’s development. IF he miracuously develops into a starting PG, then a Bibby trade, possibly including other players like Marvin or Zaza could improve our team in the present without compromising the window of opportunity over the next two or three seasons.

I don’t think we can expect that to happen. Looks like this is the team that will play out the season. I also think that this bunch has a better chance to progress than they did last year.

Either Marvin develops and assumes his role as a strong contributor, especially helping on the inside, or our over-all development as a team will stall out over this season.

I don’t want to trade Smoove, but when I look at the team, he seems to be the player that could most likely bring the piece and balance that this team needs to compete with the other top teams.

One thing is for sure; to move Marvin for a less established, and weak, Bargniani would be a catastrophy in the short term and probably not improve the team in the long run.

By Samuel

September 5, 2008 6:06 AM | Link to this

So Ando you hit one with Aldridge. That still doesn’t make Barganini any more desirable. For that matter, what has Sheldon done his first two years. I guess he will finally develop into the true landlord or at least slumlord in a few years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJpt2RyUqk8

By Samuel

September 5, 2008 6:13 AM | Link to this

So Ando you hit one with Aldridge. So I guess we gave up on Sheldon too soon. Dang, he may go from slumlord to landlord this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJpt2RyUqk8

By BLUE HAWK

September 5, 2008 6:26 AM | Link to this

you know what?

I think all of you guys are underestimating Randolph Morris.

Here’s a guy who matched up well against Dwight Howard earlier in their playing careers. A guy who scored at will against Al Horford in college.

Most folks don’t see it yet but he’s our center of the future.

He’s no longer a rookie, been in the league for more than a season. And he’s hungry to play. The guy never got to play for more than 20 mins on a consistent basis. What the hell can you do in the kind of minutes he played, and for the Knicks nonetheless.

I’m betting that he’ll make a statement during camp. He’ll show that he’s still an up and coming big man for this league. (He owned Horford in college, he’s gonna show that he still does)

I’m betting that if you give this guy minutes. Consistently give him more than 20 mins a game, he’ll end up with close to and even more than Al Horford type rookie numbers, a double-double to go with two blocks and a lot of opposing bigs in foul trouble per game. (well he has to work on getting out of foul trouble himself, but hey, there’s no way but up for him)

Give him the kind of minutes that we gave Al Horford and you’ll see what I mean.

By richbrave

September 5, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

BLUE HAWK:

So you’re sayin’ give him the minutes so he can foul out in the third quarter.?

By Astro Joe

September 5, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Dummies of the Year Award go to Chalmers and Arthur. Yeah, I know, we don’t know all of thr facts. Here’s a fact I do know… I didn’t read one article about Beasley, Mayo or the Lopez Brothers possibly having women and joints in their rooms during the “How to Avoid Trouble” classes for rookies.

Yeah, Ando really went out on a limb with that Aldridge call… where was he drafted that year? 18? 24? 30? Oh, #2. Hey Ando, I think Michael Beasley will be a player. Equally as bold of a statement, huh?

Clearly, a perimeter oriented center is the right call, but Bargnani has shown an allergic reaction to rebounding, defending and hustling. Jason Collier (RIP), was a poor man’s version of Okur. Bargnani seems more like a Euro version of Brad Sellers. Do we know that Bargnani is more deserving of a roster position than Fazekas or Pittsnoggle? I can’t help but wonder if his draft status was enhanced by his Euro background. When Troy Murphy has a year or 2 left on his deal, he could provide some of those qualities.

MannyT, brilliant call on the possible migration to Europe. I want to be you when I grow up.

By Ariose

September 5, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Blue Hawk. Ummm have you been following Horfords off season? Training at UF with trainers and former teammates, being on the USA Select squad and Practicing with team USA, the Playing with Francisco Garcia for the Dominican National team and earning a bronze medal in the Central AM games.

Horford is going to come to camp in amazing shape and with improved skills. BTW team USA senior members stated that Horford was the most impressive out of everyone there with the select squad.

What has Randolph Morris done besides work out with the Hawks and Celtics this offseason???

I like the gut too but let’s keep our expectations realistic here. Woodson has already stated the he (Morris) needed to work on his defense. And we ALL KNOW what that is codename for………Not much PT.

He might (it’s a longshot) take zaza’s backup spot, but Horford is on a completely different level……..no chance.

By Ariose

September 5, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

……..We should have drafted Danny Granger instead of Childress……..

By Ariose

September 5, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

I mean we should have traded Chills for him…….BWAF….

~S.F

By ray

September 5, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Blue Hawk,

You’re not the first person by far to say that Randolph Morris could turn out to be something. You are definitely the first person to say that he is our center of the future. I am very hopeful and very optimistic (perhaps even unrealistically so) about him. But I’m not losing sight of reality. And here’s reality for you:

1)What you do in high school has next to nothing to do with what is done in the NBA. Same goes for college, to an extent.

2)Morris could be good. But he clearly isn’t yet, or he would’ve displaced Curry, Randolph, or at least the defunct Jerome James or SOMEBODY. Go back and look just how many minutes he played in NY.

3)NOBODY, I repeat NOBODY was pursuing this kid when we signed him for the absolute MINIMUM.

Do I think he was in the wrong place at the wrong time? Yeah, I do. Do I think he’s better than advertised? I don’t know for sure, but I think that he CAN be. Can he separate himself from the “pack”? We’ll see. It all starts in training camp. Is he our center of the future? Tell you what, if he is then we got an absolute steal, and this will make Sund and crew look like geniuses. Otherwise, you’re out on that limb by yourself.

Some people just don’t get it. Ando is not in love with Bargnani. He’s in love with a concept that works. Bargnani is not the most desirable player in this concept, either. Comparing him to Darko is silly. They just aren’t the same type of player.

So is comparing him to Yi Jianlian. I saw some serious talent in that guy. He can play. I think you’ll see a better version of him in New Jersey, where they will probably actually know what to do with him, and where he will actually like it there. You have to remember, a lot of the foreign players have focus problems. If they don’t like where they live or play (or who they are playing for), it’s hard for them to play their best. That’s only natural. No, i’m not making excuses. I’m stating an opinion. It’s real easy to dump on guys like Yi, who clearly didn’t want to play in Milwaukee, and was obviously not comfortable there. Remember how bad Boris Diaw was in the ATL, then showed out much better in Phoenix? No fluke.

Anyway, I don’t think Sund likes the type of offensive concept being offered. He historically drafts big centers who turn out to be busts. I think Robert Swift is the best of the lot so far….hah!

Speaking of which….

Samuel, we all know that draft position is about who picks the player. No way should Sheldon Williams have been picked that high. That was yet another mistake by Ya Boy Billy Knight.

By ray

September 5, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Exactly, Ariose. You said a mouthful right there.

By Astro Joe

September 5, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Ray, I too think Yi will be much better than what he showed in his rookie season. I’m just not sure that will come this season. I’m not trying to offend anyone here, but it seems like playing for the Chinese National team often results in a very fatigued and injury-prone player. I bet Yao and Yi were the 2 most relieved people on the planet when the Olympics ended. Now, they just have to rest their bodies and hope that they can play 75+ games this coming season. I have my doubts. Maybe in the ‘09-10 season, we will finally see what Yi can bring to the NBA.

By Samuel

September 5, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Ray,

“Some people just don’t get it. Ando is not in love with Bargnani.” But I see Ray is still in love with Ando. Dude, stop being a groopie.

“You have to remember, a lot of the foreign players have focus problems. If they don’t like where they live or play (or who they are playing for), it’s hard for them to play their best.”

Since when did these EURO PUNKS get a pass on having a bad attitude. I’m sure LaBron would have loved to be somewhere else too.

He’s a scub. Face it.

By jhan

September 5, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget - rebounding & defense wins championships.

With our current line-up that will be a challenge.

If we restructure our team with a Bargnani “type” player we still have the same issue.

As much as I like Utah & their style of play - how many championships to they have? ZERO

As fun as it is to watch Phoenix/Golden State neither have done anything in the playoffs with their styles of play. Why not? - poor defense & rebounding.

To paraphrase Ando “This team is built to compete for the 8th playoff spot”. Let’s build a team to compete for championships. To me that means emphasize defense & rebounding. I don’t see how adding a perimeter shooting Center will help with either.

If the Morris/ZaZa combination learn to focus on defense & rebounding (they both have enough size) this team will improve. If not, look for another 35-40 win season.

By richbrave

September 5, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

SAMMY:

And that human trait is endemic to EUROPEANS only.? Oh, and Egyptians and Ethiopians. KEN.?

I knew there was something inherently wrong with EUROPEANS. They’re weird compared to intelligent capable peoples of the world otherwise. Right SAM. Oh, and there’s the EUROFUNK factor also.

By MannyT

September 5, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

ray How about a theme song to explain where the humor originates. Compliments of No Doubt.

richbrave that football game gave my smile a wedgie—ouch.

AstroJoe I want to be me when I grow up too. Unfortunately, I still want to be me in my 20s…LOL

BlueHawk You have gone waaaaaay too Buzz Peterson on the crowd as you talk about RANDolph MOrris. Some might remember him as Michael Jordan’s buddy and roommate at UNC. If you stretch a little more to the back of the history vault, you will see that Buzz was the NC Player of the Year who beat out…MJ. Somehow he didn’t have a similar impact after UNC.

I hope RandMo has something in the tank, but I won’t drink from that held up well against Dwight Howard kool-aid. If Dwight retires tomorrow, RandMo needs a heck of a major run to catch up to him as a pro. I didn;t hear about him going over the Landmark Christian Academy to do a Got Milk gig recently.

Before Samuel pulls the Euro Punk card on me, Bargnani has a substandard contract for a #1 pick. If he can make more to go home, why not. The concept of a big that can score from 3 does fit this team. Unfortunately, the non-Euro Punk that best fits the Hawks is too scary for them and gets paid too well (Rasheed Wallace.) You get me the next ‘Sheed out of Philly and I am glad to plug him in at center for the Hawks.

Gotta run. I think beat Phil Hellmuth in Old Maid when I was 8. Time to head to Vegas and get my WSOP bracelet…;-)

BWAF

By Lacsho

September 5, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Ray

You stated a lot of the foreign players have focus problems

I wouldn’t limit that to foreign players. I think if you put certain players in the right system they will flourish. Then you have other players, who will flourish in any system.

By Sautee

September 5, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Samuel

From your September 5, 2008 11:46 AM post:

“Some people just don’t get it. Ando is not in love with Bargnani.” But I see Ray is still in love with Ando. Dude, stop being a groopie.

This from Woody’s biggest “groopie” (sic). No irony here.

How can you be all over Woodson’s jock and accuse ANYONE else of being a groupie??????

richbrave

Actually, it could be worse in Sam’s eyes. They could be Euros AND left-handed!

By Ariose

September 5, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

D.A.M.N!!!!!!!

By BA

September 5, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Anyway we can move on from this Bargnani idiocy? Maybe discuss something that, you know, makes sense?

By Samuel

September 5, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJpt2RyUqk8

By doc

September 5, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

yi will have someone to converse with this year in nycity area. china town is essentially in shea area now. agree he may be worn down from all the ballin he has done recently.

i wonder if horford is going to be as ripped as howard was after last off season?

By Ken Strickland

September 5, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

RAY-as usual, I agree with your assessment of RMorris. We should also consider the possible impact Woodson’s attitude and approach might have on him. He’s already experienced a HC with a simular personality and approach in NY. The only way RMorris will be our center of the future is if we lose either Horford or Smoove. I doubt if he’s going to outperform Horford at center, or Smoove at PF. And I agree with the previous opinion that moving Smoove to SF wouldn’t be an improvement over Marvin .

When it comes to foreign players, especially Asians, it might take longer than a yr for them to adjust. Remember, they have a lot on their plate to adjust to, like language, culture, the NBA, style of play, and not being the star player on their team. It’s a lot easier to have a team play around you than trying to be effective while no long being the focal point of the team.

I believe our starting lineup of the future is already in place, with PG-ALaw, SG-JJohnson, SF-MWilliams, PF-JSmith and C-AHorford. It’s the makeup of our bench that’s still in transition.

RICHBRAVE-there’s something inherently wrong with most of us my friend. I don’t judge the whole by the actions of the few. That’s for cowards desperate to escape their reality. I was referring specifically to certain Eurocentric minded scholars who have chosen to ignore certain facts to create a paradigm that better suites their self-created idiology. You know, self-created lies/paradigms like CColumbus discovered America, or TEdison invented the light bulb and carbon filament, or Europe is a continent. Here’s the kicker. In encyclopedias and all text books on all levels, Greece is classified and taught as the 1st first Eureopean civilization. Yet Egypt, which is thousands of yrs older than Greece, is also classified as a European civilization. Since when did children start giving birth to their parents?

That’s what I meant by leopards and tigers being able to change their spots and stripes. END OF LECTURE.

By Ariose

September 5, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Ahh the old “Chicken or the Egg” controvesey……good stuff ken.

~S.F

By Najeh Davenpoop

September 5, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Checking in from the useless information department: for those of you who are politically inclined, it appears Duck has contributed to Barack Obama’s campaign.

By ray

September 5, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, you’re probably right on that one. New Jersey will be going through enough issues chemistry-wise as it is. ‘09-‘10 sounds realistic.

Samuel, “groopie”? groopie? groopie?? As in a person who’s part of an adoring, admiring “groop”? Man, learn to spell before you try bringing it to me.

Another thing. If you’re going to quote me, don’t just quote what you think will be perfect for another one of your quick but inaccurate jabs (good thing you’re not a boxer). Forget to quote the part where I said that this is not an excuse I’m making for foreigners, just an opinion?

What I’m talking about is things like language and culture barriers. LeBron (and you spelled HIS name wrong too, it’s not “LaBron”. What the “F” is wrong with you?? Even Jerry’s Kids know better than THAT) wouldn’t have that problem, now would he? He’s a world class talent that wouldn’t likely have problems anywhere now would he? Is the NBA full of Lebrons? No! But getting back to my point: Foreign players often struggle when they are largely not comfortable in their current situations. ONE MORE TIME: this is an opinion based on observation, nothing more. However, I have to say that there is plenty to back it up.

Maybe Bargnani’s a scrub. Maybe not.

And when I talked about foreigners, New Jersey and what not, I was talking about Yi Jianlian. He’s from a place we like to call “Asia”. Not Europe. He’s known as an “Asian”. No, not “groopie”, “chink”, or “Euro Punk”. Aaaaaaaasian. Come on, you can say it. Tell you what, in between coaching the girls and teaching P.E., see if they’ll let you sit in on a few geography classes. Maybe some language arts and reading comprehension too. It won’t be so bad this time around, I’m sure.

By the way….all those guys in Beijing? Those Asians? They know how to spell “Lebron”. Heh, heh….

Lacsho, you’re absolutely right. I didn’t mention it because we weren’t quite on that side of the subject, but excellent point nonetheless.

Jhan, that rings true as well. I think that’s why Ando said Bargnani wasn’t his favorite pick to man a spot like that. Personally, I don’t see a guy like Bargnani defending the 5 either. Darko is more capable, but he’s not playing to his potential right now. I think that start in Detroit did more harm than we know. Of course, now I’ll be castigated for appearing to make excuses for him.

Manny, absolutely ‘Sheed fills that bill if going with this concept. And I’d make a move to get him right quick if I thought it was possible (and was actually making the decisions).

The funniest part of all though is that Ya Boy Sund probably can’t stand the sight of Rasheed, and would never acquire him. Nope, Ya Boy Sund likes different kinds of post players, as we see from his draft and free agency history. Hah. That must truly rankle those who continue to stick to his JOCK like a RASH….

Ken, I knew you’d understand the culture and language barrier stuff. Damn that’s refreshing.

By ray

September 5, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Ken, your observations are astute and speak of a solid education that was appreciated, not merely attained and then thrown away. And it matters not when education is received, only that it is truly received.

Feel free to laugh at this next statement…History has shown us throughout history that history is more about who is in a position to do the official writing, and how they chose to record what they saw/experienced or heard about, rather than what actually happened, and the perspectives of all those involved.

That was a statement I made to a group of friends after several long island teas one evening several years ago. We all had a good laugh at the number of times I used the word history within the first part of the sentence…

By HB Ando

September 5, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

OK, let’s clear something up. I’m not in love with Bargnani. I agree with the obvious criticisms, of his obvious weaknesses (rebounding primarily). But I think he deserves the same patience that so many folks here have demanded for Marvin. And I didn’t see anyone tackle the analogy of writing off Jermaine O’Neal after two years. It’s simply too early to tell. A change of scenery, system, and continued physical development (common issue for big men), leave open the reasonable possibility that he could still be a very good player. He wasn’t drafted first for no reason. And he’s not Darko, though closing the book on Darko would still be premature.

The point isn’t about Bargnani. He simply represents an example of my belief that we’d be better off with a big man who can face the basket and stretch opposing defenses, to allow Horford to play 4 and Smith to play 3, and offset the fact that building a front line around those two demands that the third guy be a legitimate outside shooter.

If Morris exceeded every single expectation of fans here, his role on the floor would immediately place Smith and Al at the 3 and 4. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t rigidly maintain that Al is the answer at the 5, and that Josh Smith, who has absolutely no low post skills, is a four, and then hope that Morris will emerge as a viable starting center. If he does, then what do all you folks, who relentlessly fight for the Al/Josh as 4/5 argument, plan to say? “Never mind?”

And if the Hawks ended up with a front line of Smith, Horford and Morris, can anyone make an unimpeachable argument for a worse shooting front line?

For years I’ve suggested that when it’s all said and done, either Marvin or Josh will end up moving on to another team. I still believe it. And if I’m right, then the question is what type of player can you seek, in exchange for Marvin, that would complement Josh and Al, and address the weaknesses in their collective games?

Sam, I hate it that you’ve forced me to bring up a truly worn out issue, by stating that I got “one” right with my long-standing, pre-draft, interest in Aldridge. But I’m also the guy that your cousin, SS, publicly backed on this blog, as being on record that Hawks should have drafted Chris Paul, well before that draft occurred.

I also posted, right after that draft (as soon as the blog started, but the very next day, in e-mails with Sekou), that the Hawks should have drafted the rights to Morris (or Dwayne Jones) with the 59th pick they used on a Turkish point guard that no one has still ever laid eyes on.

And on what is probably the only issue we’ve ever agreed on, I was screaming at the TV screen, when Billy took Salim, for the Hawks to grab Monta Ellis (just like I screamed at the screen for the Hawks to take Igoudala, when they took Childress).

Anybody who’s honest, and has interacted with me since the inception of this blog, knows that my draft preferences have never been hindsight, and that my choices would have blown Billy’s away.

It’s not about acquiring Bargnani. It’s about the firm belief that the Hawks can never be legitimate contenders with a long-term, undersized front line, made up of Marvin, Smith and Horford. For the foreseeable future, that line cannot compete with Boston, Cleveland, Toronto, Orlando or any other legitimate Eastern Conference team (heck, I don’t think they can handle the collective line of Miami, with Marion, Beasley, Haslem and the recently acquired Magloire).

Duck is too slow to guard quick 3’s. And though Al is an absolute beast and a warrior, he’s being placed in a horrible spot every time he walks out to match up with guys like K. Perkins, Ilgauskus, Bosh/O’Neal and Howard. But put Smith on opposing 3’s, and Horford on opposing 4’s, and get this team a guy who can defend the five and knock down the open18-23 footer, and you’ll see these guys at their very best (such a player opens the lane for Horford to post up, and Smith to attack the goal).

Why is this such a radical concept? If the NBA was like Iowa girls’ high school ball, 6-on-6, with Zaza playing on defensive 3 side, and Marvin on the offensive 3 side, then there’s no issue.

But as long as Smith is the 4 and Horford is the 5, this team will fail to live up to its potential.

I still predict that by the end of next summer, both Marvin and Bibby will be gone. Time will tell.

In the mean time, the net opinion of 25 writers/analysts, for ESPN, shared my prediction that the Hawks don’t project to any better than 10th in the East.

By Ariose

September 5, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

OMFG!!!! Childress Who???….Yayfullness

Well Butter my back and call me a Biscut!!! I’m sold.

Bibby to Evans should be real familiar to the two. He’s just as accurate around the paint as Chills was……I don’t think we’ll miss a step.

~SalimFan Sir Links A Lot

By MannyT

September 5, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Without long island iced teas ;-)

History = his + story. The key is to be the his.

Ariose Looking at all thosr Mo Evans uniforms in those videos, they should change the music to Evans was a rolling stone…

By Ariose

September 5, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Ando, Horford did play the center position in High school and College (straight shut Oden down in their first meeting). I like him at the center. Josh is a nightmare for any PF to guard (Ask KG). Smoove has beefed up too…..I don’t want to judge to early but I think we’ll be fine.

Ando I agree with your “shooting Big Man” concept but personally, I just want to know what you have against just letting size (Zaza and Morris) just come off of the bench?? If length becomes a problem for Al/Smoove, jut plug Morris/Zaza in there and problem solved. There’s not many big men in the leauge that I would shift Horford to the bench or even to the 4 spot for that we can realistically get in a trade today (Sheed excluded). It’s not like were going to get anyone better than Horford or Smoove this season…..unless we trade Marvin/Bibby (Which i’m not opposed to at all).

As for those ESPN Pricks, they didn’t have us making the playoffs last year either around this time……..now were even better than we were last year thanks to Billy/Sund(I can’t belive I said that)……we’ll just have to see. The East will be vey fun to watch this year. Personally I have either the Wizards, Pacers, Heat, and Bucks not making the playoffs. And to me Pietrus is a downgrade over Evans for the magic (He fouls too damn much) if he can stay on the court long enough though, the magic might not see a drop off. Don’t sleep on the Nets either (Check their roster…..not a bad offseason at all).

Also, Just say you think Salim is awsome and I’ll leave it alone…….come on it’s theraputic. You’ll feel better after saying it, I promise lol.

~SalimFan Sir Links A lot

By Ariose

September 5, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Manny, yeah lol. Although Evans is more like a flying stone bieng hurled through the air at a rate of two teams per season heh.

Apparently, local news stations have reported him flying right through the window of a local WAFFLE House here in Atlanta lol.

By HB Ando

September 6, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Ariose, I played center in high school at 6’4, so where else would a guy as tall as Horford have played back then. In college I’m pretty sure that Noah was the center, with the exception of their two match ups with O-State, when they had to share duties to try and keep both out of foul trouble. And if memory serves me correct (ahh, screw memory; Oden torched Horford and Noah for 25 points, 12 boards and 4 blocks in the championship game)………

Look, I’ve been saying this since last pre-season: it’s not that Horford CAN’T play center. No different than the fact that JJ can play point. It’s always been about putting a guy in a position to maximize his talent. I’ll say again that if you watched All-Star weekend, and heard Barkley rave about Horford, he only talked about Horford in the context of how great a power forward he could be in this league. Didn’t mention him as a center even once. But said he could be a fixture in the all-star game, for the next decade, as a power forward.

Someone asked about my aversion to leveraging Zaza/Morris at center. I have no aversion, other than that leaves us right at my point about having one of the worst shooting front lines in the NBA. And every minute either of those guys plays comes at the expense of Marvin, because Josh and Horford are going to be on the floor.

Look, this balancing that I endorse doesn’t have to happen now, or this year. But, long-term, Josh and Al need to play the 3 and the 4, if you want to see them reach their potential.

You don’t have to agree, but don’t waste your breath calling me crazy. And don’t be surprised when Marvin gets traded before the end of next summer.

As far as the Hawks, as a playoff team, I’m still taking bets that they won’t.

Is Salim still on the team………….?

By Ariose

September 6, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this

As far as the Oden thing. that’s why I said Horford owned him in their FIRST meeting lol(He held Oden to only 11pts). The Gators couldn’t stop him in the Championchip game though.

And when Horford was a freshman at Florida he played the Center position alongside David Lee (Who played PF). The following season when Noah started, Horford still played center the madjority of the time……b/c Noah is weak (but you didn’t hear that from me).

As far as the Horrible shooting front line goes. When the Miami Heat won the Chip’ in 2006 would you consider Shaq and Udonis Haslem a great shooting front line?? We have the shooters to win like they did back then (If we can convince Woody to feature Horford down low like that instead of Joe).

Also I don’t think that trading Marvin Williams is a bad thing so long as we get something that we need in return. Either way i’m good. I’m satified with marving getting the bulk of his points from the Free Throw line. It has it’s advantages….

You Might be right about Josh and Al not reaching their potentials until they switch to the 3/4 positions but I don’t think it will stop us from being a succesful team. I think that has more to do with coaching more than anything else.

And I was Joking about the Salim thing. I’m just sayin’, it wasn’t THAT BAD of a pick. At the time Salim was coming off a career year and Ellis had recently scrwed up his knee and was skipping out on pre-draft camps (not to mention showing poorly at his private sesions). What I mean is it was all relative AT THE TIME. The Hawks needed a PG more than anything and neither Salim nor Ellis were/are pure point guards so either way you couldn’t have gone wrong AT THE TIME. Of course using hindsight it looks rediculously in Ellis’ favor NOW (Barring that he comes back form this “Practice Related” ankle injury unscathed). But it doesn’t matter now since nither of them play for the Hawks (CoughFireWoodsonCough).

By ray

September 6, 2008 7:30 AM | Link to this

Samuel, what was the purpose in that youtube link? Substitute 90% of the players in the league for Bargnani in that situation and you have the exact same result. Funny thing is, as bad as that foul was, it damn sure didn’t look soft or punkish to me.

Come on, man. I thought summer time was your time. Trash talk time. You ain’t got enough juice to pull a sick ho off a pi$$ pot. Heh.

By ray

September 6, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this

Ariose, no Shaq and Haslem were not a “shooting” tandem. Buuuuuuut:

1)They didn’t need to be, Shaq was still the most dominant center in the NBA at the time.

2)A frontcourt is made up of three players as you know. Do you remember who was playing small forward at the time?

3)A team with two superstars, one at the center position, and the other at the sg/lead guard position, can win it all if they have good coaching (they did) and the right collection of role players (they did).

By MannyT

September 6, 2008 7:42 AM | Link to this

Does Mo know Kid Rock? When I hear about people flying around in a Waffle House, his name keeps coming up. I hope he comes to a game and sits on celebrity row.

You know I’ll be ready to start the WAFFLE House chant. People will join in, but they won’t know…the rest of the story ;-)

If shaky memory serves me right, Oden was just coming back off that wrist injury when he played Florida in the regular season. Also, Noah was Ando sized for much of high school. That’s why he’s a high energy guy.

Ando tries to mess up too many hopes with facts. If I read this blog correctly, we will have to eat crow by December when RandMo shows himself to be the 2nd coming of Ben Wallace. From struggling to stay on a team to star at center…all it took was a change of teams. Front line problem solved for NBA minimum. At that rate, I also expect Salim to be an all-star this year as well. Not knocking the guys, just acknowledging the blog expectations.

Gotta run—I cooked something last week without using the microwave. Now I’m on the way to getting my own Food Network TV show ;-)

By ray

September 6, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this

Ariose, I am sufficiently excited about Evans being here. You can always use a veteran energy player with some offensive and defensive potency.

I would like to get away from the subject of whether or not he and/or Flip Murray are a substitute for Childress. I’d rather that chapter just close….

By Samuel

September 6, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

Andreas, voi deve giocare una certa difesa del freekin. Pieghi la vostra parte posteriore e sposti i vostri piedi grandi dell’asino. E mentre siete esso jackn di arresto su tutti loro threes. Stiamo provando ad ottenere la sfera all’interno qui.

Dovreste essere nella stanza del peso questa estate preferibilmente nel randello che fuma tutti loro sigarette maledette. Sto andando spedire l’asino di yo di nuovo ad Europa.

By doc

September 6, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

funny how so many miss the point it is not a question of substituting chills for evans it isi that the team is still left about 8 strong instead of 9 if chills was still around and only one more than the worn out bodies we saw creeping into the playoffs by losing t the worst team in the league miami. please leave speedy out of the equation just yet.

speaking of miami, shameful that magliore isnt available to this team. who continues to drop the ball on getting a big that has played in the nba before? rand mo or magloire for the same money now who would you pick if forced to go with one or the other?

By tbhawksfan

September 6, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

I take Magloire over Randolph. As you say, at least he would bring something that we could count on. I don’t see Randolph getting 10 minutes a game. So far he hasn’t done anything in the NBA to show that he will get off the bench.

Keep Chils and add Evans and Magloire and then we deserve the A as an off-season grade.

To lose Chil, yet still have him counting against the cap is a failure.

By RaJaH

September 6, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Ando I remember Barkley’s comments about Horford from All-Star Weekend also. He talked about Horford becoming an All-Star power forward but he also mentioned that playing center for his first season or two would be in his favor when the time came to move to the power forward position.

By Melvin

September 6, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Yeah Josh. I like that attitude for the upcoming season.

Doc, I’ve been screaming all summer that we should sign Magloire. And to see him sign for the league min somewhere else is a shame…

By ray

September 6, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Now see, Doc, I didn’t want to go there about Childress….

As for RandMo (since that seems to be his new name now) vs. Magloire, I’d rather see both….and let Solo go on his way.

Speaking of which, perhaps I am being prematurely negative about him. Maybe he’ll show us something in camp (or rather he’ll show those who get to see him, and then we’ll hear about it later). Maybe not. We’ll see.

Sekou, thanks for the Q&A with Smoove. Looks like he’s got a good grasp of things. He understands how he’s perceived in terms of the contract, the shot selection, his role on the team, etc. He understands what the problems have been with JJ facing 3 and 4 defenders, and how that relates to the additions of Evans and Murray. He also understands the size issue and that it can be overcome. Hopefully his coach understands how to overcome it.

Interesting to hear that he feels Marvin will be the surprising person. It would be a pure delight to have Marvin just explode onto the scene with a much more potent game. And as much as I’ve said about trading him….you know the routine. Winning makes you forget all else…

By Ariose

September 6, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

Actually I was hoping that the Hawks drafted Louis Williams with that pick, but getting Salim was even better (Of course you all KNOW i’m biased).

Also Ando, I agree that in the long run we need a “Legit Big”. Hopefully it doesn’t take too long for us to find one. Maybe Sund finally gets it right lol. With all this media attention the Hawks are drawing now, he’ll probably think twice about pulling that CRAP he did in Seattle lol.

Ray, I see your point about Miami. Yeah they had two Hall of Fame centers at the end of their prime. They also had Kapono, Eddie Jones, and Antione Walker knocking down threes at the SF position to go along with Wade and Jason Williams.

Now I believe we have the shooters with size(That woody will use) and if he uses Horford correctly down low I think we will be significantly improved.

Doc, I believe we will be deeper (I’m hoping that Woodson will let Gardner get some playing Time b/c of his size 6’5/shooting ability). We can also shift the lineup sometimes (Murray,JJ,Evans,Al,Zaza) to get more size and more of an defensive/offensive punch.

Manny, Yeah Oden had the hand injury at the time lol(but it makes Horford look better if you don’t mention it ;-). That must’ve been one heck of a growth spurt for Noah if he was Ando sized Heh-heh. Hopefully there will be tons of stars flying high in the WAFFLE House this season lol.

Guys, as far as RandMo is concerned, what he has going for him is

1)Big men sometimes take longer to develop than Guards do. Ex: Diop

2)He’s only 22

~SalimFan Sir Links A Lot

By Najeh Davenpoop

September 6, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Translating Samuel’s last post back to English from Italian (word to Google Translate):

Andreas, you must play some defense of freekin. Pieghi your back and move your feet large dell’asino. And while you are jackn stop it on all their threes. We are trying to get the ball inside here.

You should be in the weight room this summer preferably in the club that all of them smoke cigarettes maledette. I’m going to ship the donkey yo back to Europe.

By ray

September 6, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Ariose, actually I think a lot of experts say the same thing. Big men tend to take the longest, and point guards have the toughest job to learn. I continue to hold out hope for RandMo, having not seen him play a single game in a Hawks uniform.

Gardner has to make the team first. As I understand it, he and Othello Hunter were signed on to attend training camp, but still have to make the team to cash in on a further contract. Ask Manny though, I might be talkin’ out of the side of my neck on that one…

By Lacsho

September 6, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

Doc believe it or not, I stated a couple of years back we should have gotten Magloire. I think he was collecting dust in Portland. However, I think Morris will be ok. Keep in mind you can’t play the BullShyt ball in your home town. Because the home town fans will let you have it. The pressure is on Morris. I really think it’s do or die for him.

By richbrave

September 6, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

KEN:

Sigh. I just have to let your words say it all.

By Ken Strickland

September 6, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

RICHBRAVE-no sweat. We all benefit from knowing and/or being exposed to the truth. Informed people are much better able to make informed decisions, especially about themselves and others. I’ve read and studied about ancient cultures and peoples for over 20yrs and it’s given me a much much greater understanding and appreciation of myself and others.

Some people don’t want to know the truth about themselves or others. So, they create their own version of the truth about themselves and others. It’s like a person who knows he/she is seriously ill and needs medical attention. However, they refuse to seek the needed medical help for fear of having their worst fears about themselves confirmed.

I read the Q & A with JSmith. There was one comment that really opened my eyes. I mentioned in an earlier post how it was Woodson’s responsibilty to get his players consistently involved in the OFF. Smoove admitted he and Horford got most of their pts without specifically having plays called for them. Even they want Woodson’s OFF to be designed to include them more. Pick and roll and isolations place limits on all but one or two players if there are no built in options.

I believe the individual improvement of our young studs, and the addition of our FA’s, will make the Hawks a much improved team and a serious playoff contender. Since our starting lineup returns intact, we won’t have any prominent adjustment issues. Teams that acquired prominent vet starters might have trouble improving as a team due to possible adjustment issues. I really like the potential of this yrs team.

By Lacsho

September 6, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

Ken

There you go, I think you nailed it with this statement.

Since our starting lineup returns intact, we won’t have any prominent adjustment issues. Teams that acquired prominent vet starters might have trouble improving as a team due to possible adjustment issues. I really like the potential of this yrs team

By Ken Strickland

September 6, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Thanks LACSHO. There are several ways for a team to improve.

(1)Sometimes getting rid of a player(s) improves a team(addition by subtraction). I remember a Philly team that got rid of WBFree, JBryant and MMalone and won the title with AToney, MCheeks, CJones, DDawkins, JErving and BJones as their remaining core.

(2)Leaving the core, or the starters, intact can improve a team(developing chemistry). the Pistons and Spurs have been successful using this approach.

(3)Adding more talent and hoping they develop chemistry(like Boston did successfully).

(4)Relying on the individual improvement of your core players(this will be the Hawks’ not so secret weapon this upcoming season).

(5)Hiring a new HC and staff that can more effectively utilize existing talent, and/or develop a system that takes better advantage of existing talent. (The Lakers and Bulls’ hiring of HC PJackson and the introduction of the triangle OFF).

(6)Any combination of the above.

The Hawks as constructed certainly aren’t perfect by any stretch of the imagination. Overall, we aren’t physically strong or tall by NBA standards. However, we are exceptionally quick, fast, athletic and versatile for our size and height. If properly utilized, our strengths will more than compensate for our weaknesses. Phoenix, until the Shaq trade, and Golden State were perfect examples of that philosophy at work. There’s no way this team will fall flat on its face, despite Woodson. We’ll be better than last yr, provided there are no serious prolonged injuries to key players. The reasons will be based on #2, 3 & 4.

By Ariose

September 6, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Hehehehe…..

Ken, Well said.

By Ariose

September 6, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

This had absolutely NOTHING to do with Joe and EVERYTHING to do with the coaching scheme. You all know the play. ‘Give it to Joe and let him go’….BS!!! Even if Woody doesn’t change, this shouldn’t happen anymore with guys like Mo and Flip our there.

It’s funny how even the reporters know that Marvin needs to step up.

By Lacsho

September 7, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this

Ok Ok, Aroiose for now on I have to call you the youtube master… I mean you be pulling clispe from your Azz….

Nuff Respect!!!!!

By HB Ando

September 7, 2008 3:40 AM | Link to this

Here’s a discussion I had tonight, at TacoMac, with a long-term friend, who is well placed in the local TV media, and who is extremely opinionated, with much respect to his sports knowledge: he asked me when I was going to give him credit for his position, last pre-season, that Horford could succeed playing the center. I told him the same thing I’ve been saying here, from the get-go: Horford’s warrior mentality, and overall talent, allowed him to make a strong impression, as a rookie playing out of optimal position.

We bandied the issue back and forth, and ended up pretty much where I continue to land. Just ‘cause Horford is man enough to slave away at the five, doesn’t change the fact that we’re missing his upside by playing him at his second best position.

By the end of the conversation, we were pretty much at the same place that I reside: Josh, like AK47, is a freakishly uncomfortable match up for almost every other 3 in the league, not named Lebron. Al, as a 4, will rapidly become one of the elite power forwards in the NBA, per no less than the opinion of Barkley. To optimize that set up, the team needs a non-traditional big, who can body the opposing five, on defense, and consistently draw his defender away from the paint, stretched out to 3-point land, to off set the other wise weak long-range shooting of Smith and Horford, and create optimal spacing for Horford on the low block, and Smith as a relentless slasher to the paint.

Now Marvin, as a 3, can potentially provide the outside threat that would create similar openings. But a front line, constructed of those 3, will continue to be dominated on the boards.

And in trying to off set that predictable mismatch, Zaza and Morris/Solo will have to assume greater minutes at the five, at the reduction in court time for Marvin, and at a net compendium of a front line that simply cannot extend opposing defenses, due to an utter lack of deep-shooting threat.

And lost in all my hair-splitting over analysis about how to balance out the front line, in such a way that they’re competitive on both ends of the floor, is that if Woody hasn’t drastically improved his play calling, for half-court sets, this ongoing imbalance, in optimal role assignment, will only be highlighted, on a nightly basis, as opposing teams seek to maximize our mismatches, on both ends of the court, with collapsing half-court defenses, accurately designed to dare us to shoot from the perimeter, while opposing offenses generate game plans that seek to expose both a less-than-average, defensive PG, as well as pounding a front line who’s best players, in Horford and Smith, are regularly playing out of their optimal position.

As it stands, a primary starting lineup of Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Josh and Horford, will represent an underwhelming defense, despite aggregate block statistics, by Josh and Al, that confuse their practical effectiveness, from a “points against” and “FG% against” standpoint.

Bibby and Marvin will regularly be overwhelmed by their match ups at the 1 and the 3. And Al will be battered, despite relentless effort, by banging with opposing fives.

And when they approach the all-star break, struggling, or consistently just short, of maintaining a .500 record, Bibby is gone (if not before then).

Look, there’s compelling talent here. It’s just not yet balanced enough to justify unbridled optimism. And Woody is still the head coach. And until I see, with my own two eyes, the ASG actually spend $65 million, to keep this team together for the full season, then I’ll defer to a clear, consistent track record of spending no more that $55 million, which, if accurate, means key pieces of this projected lineup will be distant memories by season’s end.

Wha, wha, whaaaaaaa………..

By ray

September 7, 2008 6:31 AM | Link to this

You heard that, folks. No unbridled optimism allowed! Bridle your optimism!

I wonder if that’s anything like “Curb your Enthusiasm”.

Heh.

By ray

September 7, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this

This thing with Monta Ellis was murky to begin with. But now, it’s just plain dark. It was already ugly for both Monta and the team, but it looks like it will be getting uglier.

If Memphis pulls off this trade with New York, they’ll be more set than they were before. Zach Randolph can be a head case, but dude flat out gets it done on the block on offense. That, and Darko won’t be missed in Tennessee with Gasol, Haddadi, and Randolph (real beef) on the front line. Besides, this trade is Sam approved: two Euro-punks for a thuggish, ruggish rogue. Bwahahahahahahaha! Uh oh wait a minute. Sam likes the Knicks…..whoops…

By Samuel

September 7, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

I’ll never pull for a team with that many EUROS. I’m a Memphis fan now.

My teams: 1) The Hawks, of course. 2) Minnesota TWolves 3) GS Warriors 4) Portland Trailblazers 5) PHX 6) Memphis

ND, that was close but what’s a Pieghi?

By ray

September 7, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Sam, I thought you might see it that way, LOL! I was really just pickin’ at you though. Still, I have been a Memphis fan (although they ain’t quite at the status of my Hawks or Bulls), and I’m definitely diggin’ a lineup with Mayo, Gay, Conley, and Warrick. Now if they can figure out how to use Crittenton in that rotation. And add Randolph, who could no doubt use the change of scenery (and room to breath without Curry taking up space). And we’ll see if Iavaroni is worth the hype.

If the Blazers can keep much of their group together, and make it work (hell, Paul Allen can afford all of them anyway), these guys will rival the Blazers of old that featured Drexler, Kersey, Duckworth, Porter, Robinson, etc.

It still kills me that we could’ve had Brandon Roy…I’m sure it’s killing the other teams that failed to draft the guy who’s already an all-star. Geeezz…

Terry Porter is going to bring that toughness, defensive mindset, and knowledge to the Suns. I’m looking for a better team already. May not be as fun and gun as before, but they’ll be tougher.

Things looking bad for the Warriors. No BD (I LOVED him), no Monta. Good thing they picked up Marcus Williams. I liked him before he was drafted and thought he was well on his way to getting something done while waiting to take the reins from Jason Kidd. Didn’t happen. This is his next opportunity, and I figure he’s going to make the most of it. I believe in that kid till he shows me otherwise.

By ray

September 7, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Ariose, your links inspired me to go back to YouTube and watch some of the highlights from last year’s playoff series against Boston.

I watched the game 3 highlights where Josh caught fire for 27 and 9, and the one where JJ torched ‘em for 35 in game 4. If you wanna get hyped for the season (and I’m gettin’ more hyped after each video clip), then this is the way to do it.

One of the things I noticed the most in some of these video clips is that Horford is so involved with the offense with his excellent decision making. Josh cuts to the basket for a dunk, and it’s Horford making the great pass from the high post. JJ gets the open 3, and it’s Horford making the pass from the post yet again. Our offense definitely needs to get run through this guy. As my ol’ pal Sautee has mentioned before, every third trip down the floor, get that ball in Horford’s hands. He’s a guy who makes his teammates better, and he doesn’t have to be a pg to do it.

By doc

September 7, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

nicely put ando, and if the hawks spend 65 mil this year it may be an anomaly as they can easily get by next year by dropping back by letting bibby go and not return marvin. they have no obligations to spend that much after this year. no way to know of course but interesting to speculate which is what we do 24 hours a day.

ando, though i am not a bargnani fan necessarily and i know you arent as well it is more to demonstrate if marvin doesnt bring an outside shot we are still stuck with four ballers as starters that all require inside space. marvin’s insdide the key jumper doest count as an outside shot that will stretch any defense. though jj has an outside shot we have seen more of his attempts to move inside as his play rather than the downtown game. if marvin isnt capable of moving back we dont get that until evans comes in. that ether leaves us about six inches shorter than we were last year as evans doesnt have the overall length of chills or requires that jj move to sf. fun to look at how woody makes the adjustment. he will have to change things with chills gone. evans is not a plug in.

oh sam, no knicks anymore huh? rue the day of d’antoni.

By doc

September 7, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

ray didnt crit go to orlando or was that just a rumor? we seven welcomed a magic fan about that one. i was looking forward to see how crit more than made up for the loss of evans as he is a killer with a shot and can play defense, too.

By doc

September 7, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

wow, just read monta not ballin but on a bike when injured. is he as stupid as a former nfl star by risking it all to do his thing? 68 mil could be gone with that move.

oh boy, i see the cavs went out and got a pop corn popper at the c/pf position. geez the guy only played in 17 games last year. the hardest he worked was filling up two rookies cars with popcorn.it is really hard to close the doors against all that weight. the cavs think he can add size to that team? oh, to have been born to grow to 6’11”.

By ray

September 7, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

Doc, it was Michael Pietrus who went to Orlando. Crittenton is still listed on the roster with Memphis.

Monta Ellis should’ve taken a page from former Chicago Bull Jay Williams. Williams still hasn’t made it back to the big time (lost his first step and overall speed), and probably never will. Europe may not even be a viable option. Monta could end up in the same damn boat….all for a bike. Doesn’t help that he didn’t tell the truth right away. Can’t blame him for being scared, but who knows what damage that might have done. But that’s a small thing in comparison to all the money he could lose. I hope for his sake at least that he is able to recover fully from this injury. Hate to see him go down, especially like that.

Thing is, this kinda brings me back to our own Josh Smith, who has kept his nose conspicuously clean and only worked his butt off in the offseason. We’re paying 8 million dollars less for a guy who has plenty of focus and drive, and every bit as much talent, if not more. And to think that some people were calling him a head case and a guy who would only be a problem. Yeah, okay…

By travis

September 7, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

are you ready for some football?

blogmates, i been waitin’ on this day since feb. i tol wifey if it doesn’t get done by friday night, it will have to wait til next week cause sat. and sun. is football.

i’m goin’ on record to say that the hawks will make the playoffs again!! they will get the 6th spot, wit’ 44 wins!!

why the optimism? this is woody’s 5th yr. he has never, ever had all the “pieces” that he needed until now. he always wanted “vets” well he has them now, let’s see if it works. i mean knight, larry brown systems have “worked” before, wit’ much success.

we have to win more road games and you can do this wit’ vets, not with a lot of youngsters. bibby, jj, speedy, flip, evans are the “vets” that woody says he needed. smooth and marvin are not babies anymore. marv gotta step up. did y’all see him play in seattle? dude was beastin’ why can’t he bring that nightly?

the falcons will win 6+ games, hawks will win 44, thrashers will make playoffs at the 7th seed. ga bulldogs will play in champship game, and tech will win 9 games!!

GO ATL SPORTS

Born and raised in atl, L.O.Kimberly elem., M.D. Collins high school!! Not a bandwagon jumper. Love atl sports!!

By Ken Strickland

September 7, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

ANDO-everyone knows your opinion on the Hawks frontline, and I’m not in total disagreement with you. I also agree that Horford would be a better 4 than 5. However, I do believe he can be a very effective 5 over a period of yrs if he’s not asked to play the rediculous mins Woodson forced him to play last yr. Also, moving Smoove to the 3 and bringing in a bigger more traditional 5 might balance the roster size wise. But it won’t balance the frontline skill wise. JSmith doesn’t possess the traditional outside skills one associates with the position.

You made a comment about our frontline being dominated on the boards. I took the RPG averages of our frontline and compared it to the frontlines of Boston(6.8RPG), Detroit(6.6RPG), Orlando(8.4RPG), Portland(6.9RPG) and San Antonio(605RPG). Philly added EBrand(8RPG), a strong rebounding PF, to their frontline of Dalembert(10.4RPG) and Iggy(5.4RPG) and their RPG average was 7.9RPG. That matches the Hawks, so exactly which teams are going to dominate us on the boards? Remember, at least 3 of the above teams have won NBA titles in recent yrs without matching our rebounding prowess.

You just might be trying too hard to prove your point. Size won’t be an issue with our fronline unless they’re asked to bang inside, play rediculous mins and a slow down power style OFF. But there isn’t a team in the NBA that can match our combination of size, speed, quickness and athleticism. Therefore, we should force opposing frontlines to try and run with ours rather than having ours try and out muscle theirs. Again, using your strengths to minimize your perceived weaknesses.

By ray

September 7, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Ken, been having some fun along with you on the Falcons blog….heh heh. Those guys….well some of them anyway.

I agree with some of what you say about our front line. We need for Zaza and Morris to be very effective coming off the bench for this to work. Like you said, Horford can’t be spending 40 minutes or more at center all year, or we will have problems, continuously. That was one reason we really needed a decent veteran big that could play 20 or so minutes a game at center. Right now I don’t know if we have that guy. I was hoping Kwame could come in and be that guy, and I was sure that he could if only we got off our butts and signed him. Same for Magloire and others. Detroit recognized Kwame’s abilities and made the move.

Meanwhile, we’re relying on Zaza and a very much unknown quantity in Morris. You and I both know that if Morris can’t at least get it done on the defensive end, Woody won’t play him. And unless Zaza gets that same fire he had his first two years here….we’re right back where we started. In that sense, Ando is exactly right, and so are you, because that puts Horford right back at center…for 40 minutes a game…or more. After all, we only have Solo after that, assuming he doesn’t get traded or bumped from the roster by somebody else. He has neither the bulk nor the skills, as far as I’ve seen.

A perfect situation to me (where our present front line is involved) is one where both Zaza and Morris become very solid down low for us. Otherwise, we need to hunt up another big…and to do that..we probably have to make a trade.

By ray

September 7, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Whoa….Falcons up 14-0 in the first quarter. Turner and Ryan are looking good….but it is early. Still…..whoa…

By Ariose

September 7, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Exactly Ken, Rebounding wasn’t our problem. It was outside shooting. It Always was. With the current roster additions, marvin doesn’t even have to be that great from behiend the arc but an improvement from would be nice.

As long as he improves his dribble-drive game we’ll be that much better.

Ray, Yeah I was getting excited watching all that stuff yesterday too lol.

By SAM THE G

September 7, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

SalimFan is Gay.

By Ken Strickland

September 7, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

RAY-fooling with some of those ANALS is fun, but it does get old because some of them are relentless. And don’t let the discussion be about a UGA player. Some of the comments and opinions get really delusional.

I believe organizaions now realize McGloire is only effective starting rather than coming off the bench. He was an allstar as a starter when playing for New Orleans, but has all but disappeared since. I don’t know much about Morris, so it’s hard for me to say what to expect from him. I just hope he will benefit from being around the type of players we have on our team. In NY, he had to deal with a bunch of disgruntled, selfcentered, overpaid, one dimensional vereran players.

Our players are the complete opposite of that assemblage. Our young Hawks are trying to get to the playoffs again. In NY, they were trying to force mgt to trade them to another team. If Morris can approximate off the bench what Zaza gave us as a starter, with better DEF, we’ll be a strong team.

By ray

September 7, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Ken, damn that was a good point.

Horford, Smoove….those guys will keep RandMo pumped up. Totally different atmosphere. Now that’s insight. Nice work.

By Najeh Davenpoop

September 7, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Haha Samuel I have no idea, that’s just what Google Translate told me. I don’t know a word of Italian.

By ray

September 7, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Wow. The Falcons put an arse-whoopin’ to the Lions. That dang Michael Turner burned up the turf out there! 220 damn yards!

And like normal, right after a season beginning win, you’d think that people would be elated. But no, those damn fools over there in the Falcons blog are at each other’s throats again….

Have to admit to stirring the pot a bit myself, but dang…some of those cats are straight up out of control. Heh, heh…

By Lacsho

September 7, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Ray

You took the words out of my mouth. The only thing I can say about the dirty birds is WOW. What a way to start the season.

By drmaryb

September 7, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

Hey RichieB

Yes baby, like SEKOU you gotta take a break from this BLOG-THING or you will get * BLOGGED - DOWN!* ha ha ha ! LMBoobiesO!

Any way, to answer your question: Yes, I do believe that Marvin will do the SWAN-SONG this year! He has to, he should get more minutes since the all purpose gamer Childress has jetted off to GREECE! uugghh!

If not , then I will have to break out my Razor Sharp THONG-SONG! (And, If I remember correctly, some of these weak & whinny AZZ bloggers can’t handle my THONG-SONG) Oh well - it SUX - being THEM! ha ha ha!

I hear them GREEKS don’t necc. pay the pay-rollees over there! J-CHills may be collecting some bouncing checks over there! Oh well - At least he is not a stranger to things BOUNCING ha ha ha ! (get it?…….Basketballs - Bounce!)

Anyway, if Marvin does not have a Break-Out year? Then he will truly be considered a BUST! in my BOOK!

Good to hear from you RichieB my main MAN!

GO-FALCONS!!!!!!!

By drmaryb

September 7, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Hey Doc

The Burner - Mike Turner this guy has got to have TURF-TOE by now!

Can I please get a Medical Diagnosis on this Guy?

That was Ridiculous what I witnessed out there today! The* GA-DOME* is alive and well! Go-Falcons!

Hey Doc! Can I get a Prognosis on Mike-Turner?

By Sautee

September 7, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

Ken S

Thanks for the rebound numbers. I was gonna pick that particular bone with Ando, (though I agree with much of his premise), but you saved my time.

Good knowledge.

By Ken Strickland

September 7, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the props my friends. DRMARYB, where in the heck have you been? Welcome back. I have one more bit of info to present. The greatest contribution/impact Sund can have on this team is to make Woodson realize it’s about the players and the team, not him. If he can get him to adjust his focus, he will finally realize his players aren’t suited for HIS preferred style of play. They must be allowed to do what the Falcons did today, run, run, run.

By ant banks

September 7, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

assuming all things equal, the starting line-up will be:

bibby, jj, marvin, smooth, horfod- my question about this line up is i thought we all agreed that horford was better at the 4.

what is even more perplexing is if randmo or zaza show up as serviceable bigs and you move horford to the 4spot, is smooth a better 3 than marvin?

By BA

September 7, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

That was a great article about Josh Smith. I hope he’s able to convey his overall attitude/work ethic to his teammates, and I hope it’s contagious.

I found it interesting that he referred to their “system”. Some folks would have you believe the Hawks don’t have a system.

If Josh AND Marvin come out this year better than last year, and Big Al goes for 14 and 10…

That should go a long way towards putting the whole “undersized frontcourt” debate to rest.

As far as Sunday’s festivities, Micheal Turner- just damn. Makes it easier on the rookie QB if that guy (Turner) is doing his thing. I keep trying to temper myself, “It was just the Lions…”

By BLUE HAWK

September 8, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

[check out 1:01]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXVL2PEpiTg)

hey, i’m not saying that he should play point guard but you gotta appreciate this big man’s mobility and agility.

I mean to grab a rebound, take it down the court, spin around an opposing guard without losing your dribble and then finish with a lay-up as a heavy 6-11 footer is no easy task.

In the end, how well Morris does depends on his attitude. I just hope he learned a thing or two about attitude from David Lee while he was with the Knicks.

By BLUE HAWK

September 8, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

check out 0:18

steals the ball at halfcourt and then leads the break. the ball was almost stolen from behind by a guard but he keeps the ball and finishes with a lay up. (most big guys dont know how to make a lay up, all they know is dunk)

he’s a big guy that can really run the floor, you can see him on the breaks a lot. in that sense he could fit in right with the hawks.

i liked the competetiveness he showed in the Kentucky highlights.

at the very least he could end up like a tyson chandler type player, he could just get lobs all day for dunks hehe. but obviously he’s capable of bringing in more than just that.

i mean we shouldn’t conclude anything from his stint with the knicks. i mean it’s the knicks for crying out loud. isiah thomas and larry brown were his coaches, what could you expect?

By BLUE HAWK

September 8, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this

i’ll try to do it right this time hehe

check out 1:01

Randolph Morris coast to coast

By BLUE HAWK

September 8, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this

but getting back to the original topic of this blog, Marvin Williams, i think it wouldn’t be a bad idea to offer him for Travis Outlaw.

1.) Having Travis Outlaw on the floor with Josh Smith and Horford or Morris would make the Hawks a no fly zone. Welcome to the block party.

2.) Outlaw can shoot from the outside and has range. So should we need shooters he’s one with trey range.

3.) His athleticism is equal to Josh Smith’s providing another source for the highlight factory.

4.) He can be a great perimeter defender. One with great length and quickness. he can either block jumpshooters or at the very least alter their shots.

5.) He can be counted on to make clutch plays. This is a guy who will be there, doing what needs to be done when it matters, closing games and winning games.

6.) He can be one of our scorers, he had signified that he would like to take more field goal attempts in portland, which is highly unlikely having roy, aldridge, bayless, fernandez, etc. and even oden around.

so there, I’m proposing a Marvin Williams for Travis Outlaw trade. i really hope this would happen. Portland could really bite on Marvin.

By richbrave

September 8, 2008 6:43 AM | Link to this

drmaryb:

Sorry I missed your house call. Been burnin’ up the blog lines for the BRAVES. HAWKS not gettin’ much of my love, but you - always dr.m. Say how’s the X-PLOSION gettin’ on.?

By ray

September 8, 2008 7:00 AM | Link to this

BA, not to exacerbate the situation or really argue with you, but even Josh Smith acknowledges that our frontcourt is undersized. He said as much in Sekou’s Q&A. However, he also says that we present matchup problems.

I think that others have really hit the nail on the head. The key to getting by with this frontcourt isn’t just the mismatches they create. It’s the play of our true centers off the bench. If Morris/Zaza can provide quality low post-banging for about 25 minutes a game that allow Horford to move to the 4, then we’ll be fine. I agree that our guys are real fighters, but I hate to see them get worn out. And not every opponent is as clear and easy mismatch.

By doc

September 8, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

travis outlaw is where he needs to be. he has a learning deficit that involves spatial orientation. his coaches in portland spend extra time with him makng sure he gets it. not many other teams are capable of this type of attention to detail like portland does.

dmb turner is from another world. prognosis is huge if he stays healthy. great start to the season for sure.

By doc

September 8, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

dmb. i dont know if this is a prognosis but if turner can get 3200 yards rushing this year then i feel the falcons will be tough to beat and in the playoffs.

By BA

September 8, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Okay, Ray- I’ll clarify. I meant the debate over whether the “undersized” frontcourt can compete. To me, it’s not really an issue, because they seemed to “compete” just fine against the Celtics.

And they’ve improved every season since they’ve been in the league. Smith and Williams, that is.

I’m of the opinion that so much of what is discussed here is merely a regurgitation from seasons past- you know, how overmatched the Hawks will be, how dumb everybody says Woodson is. This year is DIFFERENT. They didn’t draft any raw youngsters this year. They spent some coin to retain a cornerstone player and brought in some quality vets to round out what was already a playoff team. And everybody’s favorite punching bag, ‘ole Woody, was the one that coached them there. I think, for once, the Hawks deserve a little credit.

But I have to play along with some of these tried and true debates, just to get in the proverbial game around here.

But good point, Ray, about our bigs. Isn’t Pachulia in a contract year? I know nothing about Morris, but I expect big things from Pachulia this year. And please, Ray, don’t ever come at me like you did our buddy Samuel the other day! That was pure carnage! However, I always welcome any argument or exacerbation.

Who wouldn’t jump at the chance to sit at the big boy’s table with the inimitable Big Ray? Ya’ll stay safe down South…

By Sautee

September 8, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

BA

Don’t flatter him, he’ll get a bigger head!

By BA

September 8, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

If the “blogger of the year” award didn’t blow up our boys head, nothing I say will! But the bigs (Pachulia/Morris) are going to be a definite key to this season. I hope they’re ready to run, Sautee.

By HB Ando

September 8, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Like every summer/pre-season, we really always are reduced to splitting hairs of subjectivity. I mean if any of us really knew, we’d be retired on a fat nest egg of sports’ book winnings.

Ken, good stat reference. Buy my point is that the nature of this roster, and the historic limitations of our head coach, suggest, to me, that we will pick our poison. In other words, we can go big, and be respectable on our board differential. But that will absolutely have to come at the cost, and minimization, of Marvin’s minutes and role. Or, we can hand Marvin the minutes, and we’ll be a better offensive team, a better shooting team, but that rebounding differential will drop precipitously.

Highlighting stats from a team that won 37 games only reinforces a repeat of 37 wins.

Go big, with this lineup, and we will struggle to shoot the ball. Go Marvin, Josh and Al, and we’ll be better, offensively, but will struggle on the defensive end.

For folks who continue to point to the Boston series, and our 3 home wins, as some sort of irrefutable logic that the Hawks are now a lock for a return to the playoffs, I only ask if any of you are familiar with the limitations of a statistically insignificant sample size.

Look, I’ve highlighted the same clarifying perspective for years. Maybe I am too hard to please, but I’ve always been focused on the expectation that this team should be built to compete for championships.

We haven’t.

So if you’re happy with a team that’s upside is struggling to snatch the 8 seed, every year, then I can understand why you find my criticisms unnecessarily harsh. But if you want to root for a legitimate contender, like I do, then I don’t think my frustrations are unreasonable.

You want Mo Evans and Flip Murray to make a huge impact, but you ignore the fact that Woody plays JJ 40 minutes a night. That leaves 8 minutes at the 2. You want Marvin to emerge, but, given those non-existent minutes at the 2, Mo has to play the 3 to have a significant value. For that to happen, Josh can’t play much, if any, 3. And the only way for Zaza and/or Morris to play significant minutes at the 5 is IF Josh slides to the 3.

Something has to give, or no matter who become the odd men out. And each plausible rotation has a fatal flaw, whether it’s a lack of size on the defensive end, or a lack of shooting on the offensive end. And if we had a really quality head coach, then those flaws could be minimized. But we have Woody, with a contract extension, no less.

Maybe I’m missing something. Maybe I’m just dead wrong. But I don’t think swapping out Childress for Morris, when Zaza already wants more minutes, or Evans and Flip, when Woody’s track record is to play JJ for 40+ minutes, likely to be replicated by his use of Bibby/Law, makes us a tangibly better team. Those guys have to play to have an impact. And I don’t see where those minutes are coming from.

If Woody does a 180, in giving his bench minutes. And Morris finally morphs from moth to butterfly. And the ASG doesn’t dump Bibby’s salary before the all-star break. And everything goes perfect, this team may play .500 ball.

But that’s a lot of ifs. And that’s expecting the coach and the owners to change their stripes.

Guess we’ll just have to see.

By ray

September 9, 2008 5:28 AM | Link to this

BA, it’s all good. And hey….I’m just a regular face (or rather name) at the ol’ table. I’m never too good to chat with the next guy or gal. We’re all part of the crew. Sam and I tangle here and there (it’s trash talk time until the season starts). But we’re both fans when the chips are down. I just don’t like Woody as much as he does, hee hee! Hell, we’re all Hawks fans, are we not?

Ando,

I think for the last two blogs at least….even the most optimistic of us have acknowledged the fact that Woodson is the key to a great many things this season. It’s a caveat that just about anybody has added to their bubbling enthusiasm. Essentially, you’ve managed to echo that. Like you said at the beginning of the post, we’re reduced to splitting hairs. I doubt if anybody can beat you at that. Heh.

We will just have to see. What’s funny is that even though we acknowledge the “Woodson Effect”, we still look at the group of players and can’t help but feel some hope. Are we truly a better team than last year? Not necessarily on paper, because some known quantities are gone (Childress, Salim, et al), and some unknown quantities have arrived (Evans, Morris, Murray). We can look at the abilities and last year’s stats of these guys, but what do they mean in a Hawks uniform? Nothing…until we see them playing in a Hawks uniform. We can talk all day long about the improvements that we figure our guys made. And they have. And they will.

Woody still holds the clipboard. And a new contract. I’ve heard before (can’t remember where) that the game is not all about the Xs and Os. It’s about the Jimmies and Joes. I don’t see where Woodson has either one on lockdown. I just don’t. I’m not bashing the guy. I just don’t have the faith. But if you’re telling me that all he needed was some veteran players, well now he’s got two new ones. JJ should be glad of that as well, since he gets to start training camp and the season off with three or four vets in the backcourt with him (Murray, Bibby, Speedy, Evans). What’s funny is that those “wild runnin’ young guys” are the ones who will be holdin’ it down in the trenches….

No doubt. Any fan that believes that the roster is improved will have to concede the point that lack of success is due to coaching. Let the games begin…

By Samuel

September 9, 2008 6:44 AM | Link to this

So, is Bobby Cox all of a sudden garbage and needs to be fired?

By Sautee

September 9, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

By Sautee

September 9, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

new blog up