Hawks

By some sense

August 20, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

English Nazi…by him and his teammates

By Beck

August 20, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

I watched the game with the Australian commentators and they cried about the American’s perceived arrogance and glowering. Cry babies!

Anderson couldn’t seem to make a shot but at least he hustled. Sounds like he’s off to play in Spain though. What do you hear about that?

What happened to Bogut? What a letdown. I bet his team is p**sed. Sekou I know you had to get up early to see the game and I feel your pain. We had to stay up late after sitting through the AUS v Japan Women’s Softball bronze medal game which ran over to an unreal 13 innings. I was almost in tears waiting for the game and actually started to cheer against AUS just to get it over with.

By Matt

August 20, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

I suspect that the former Eastern Bloc countries (Lithuania and the former Yugoslavia…though not Croatia) would not fold like a cheap deck chair under pressure. Those teams simply have too much national pride to roll over and play dead. Sadly, it doesn’t look like those traditional European hoops powers stand in our way this year - the games will be less entertaining than expected.

By This Gets Old

August 20, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

You know I said it on your last blog and I feel it more so now. If Team USA acted as some of these other teams have acted it would be the number two Olympic story behind Phelps. In fact they would play it off the Phelps story.

DWade looks great but it’ll be interesting to see how well these guys hold up when the NBA season resumes. JJ seemed a little tired after he returned but then of course he played nearly every minute for us.

By keithedmundson returns

August 20, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Boguts ankle is bothering him plain and simple. Could he have done more if healthy? Probably, but the USA should wear out each opponent without question. Bogut has the skills to play in the NBA. Is he more valuable than Paul or Deron Williams? No way, but the big men are the hard ones to find in the NBA. The one comment I liked from Doug Collins was when he said Micheal Redd was 4-16 in the Olympics and if he hits 4 more, he is at 50%! Who thinks Doug Collins is a good coach? Hopefully, better than his math.
And those Duke comments have to be in there, no way around it when Coach K hires your son and brings his entire staff with him to Beijing. We win despite their presence.

By MannyT

August 20, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Olympic team has lots of kind words for Coach Nate. I wonder if he has a shot at being the next Team USA coach after Coach K?

More Portland praise, even in China. That’s good CRAP as long as they live up to the expectations.

By Chris Collins

August 20, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Hey clown(yeah you sekou) what the f kind of name is that?

my old man has forgot more ball than you will ever know. Also has far more contacts and is well repected in the game.

Can’t say the same for you in the BBall world.

Knew you were a loser form the word go when you had the unmitigated gall to talk about someone easedropping on your cell conversation last year.

As the bloggers pointed out, if you want privacy take it outside or away from the crowd. otherwise quit your whioning and shut up.

Don’t know who is worse you or the maize and blue.

Both are equally inept and far far too loud and brash for the relaitve lack of accomplishments lately.

Carry on!

By David

August 20, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

What’s the point of this blog?

This is the HAWKS BEAT BLOG,

not Team USA’s.

How about an update of how our players are doing?

Is JJ holding any more charity events? Is Acie fully healthy? Is Speedy healthy? How’s ZaZa doing?

HAWKS BLOG

NOT TEAM USA’S

By Mike

August 20, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Beck, Andersen signed a multi-year contract in Spain, though he does have an opt-out after the first year. He negotiated with the Hawks but was offered much more money in Europe.

I only saw the first half, but early on it seemed much more competitive to me than it apparently did to you, Sekou.

I’d love to see their back-up PG (Mills, was it?) in the NBA. He is VERY quick.

By Sekou K. Smith

August 20, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Nice haymakers Chris. I love it. Keeps me sharp. And you better believe your old man has forgotten a lot, including that little bit about us not giving a rip about his son’s loose connection to this team. I’m sure his NBC producers might have mentioned that but he couldn’t hear them over the booming and non-stop sound of his own voice.

And instead of trolling around the blog (for a while now since you mentioned one of last year’s topics) you’d have probably better served your master (uh, that would be coach K and not your pops) my young Jedi friend by helping the Dukies get past the Sweet 16. Talk about inept, brash and far too loud for the relative lack of accomplishments lately. Sounds like Duke basketball to me.

David, the Hawks players are on hiatus right now and there’s not any significant news to report. We are allowed to discuss things other than the Hawks around here my man.

I didn’t think it was all that competitive after about the first 10 to 12 minutes Mike. Australia played much better in the tune up game a couple weeks back (when Bogut was sat out with the bad ankle).

Again, I’m looking forward to a much more spirited matchup against Argentina. They’ll go at Team USA without fail.

And Mills is a nice player that we’ll probably see down the line in the NBA. He reminded me of Tony Parker before he hit it big with the Spurs.

By Melvin

August 20, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Mike, From what I understood. Andersen has out-opt on his contract starting after year one. He can exercise that option after his first playing season.

By Astro Joe

August 20, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Sekou, come on man, why don’t you dissect Othella Hunter’s game or give us a dissertation on Speedy’s recovery efforts? You know, that hard-core Hawks talk that Chris and David crave.

Back to the Redeem Team, surely someone will give them a nail-biter before all is said and done, right? I would actually enjoy watching them win a game where they were down by 5 with less than 3 minutes left in the game.

By Gridiron Baller

August 20, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

Chris Collins, or whoever you really are (besides a sniveling loser):

Considering that anything your pops knew was taught to him by Jordan, I’m not surprised at his memory failures. The knowledge wasn’t his to begin with….

David, are you paying for this? Didn’t think so. Don’t let the door hit ya on the way out.

By Robert Yates

August 20, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

I have to somewhat agree with a few of the others Sekou….. I don’t mind the olympic coverage, but what I really want in here is my squad coverage that is too hardcore for the daily print. We got a few new faces on the roster so far and beside what I can find out on hoopshype, I don’t really don’t know much about them. I give you props though….your blog beats the hell outta what Steve Wyche is doing for the Falcons right now. I like Steve too, but even during the mid-ninties hell of Falcons football you would still find a helluva update every day during training camp. Anyway, just my two cents.

By jhan

August 20, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t that be something if Chills & Anderson were signed next off-season.

Pipe dream for sure!

By Samuel

August 20, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

I kinda thought that Nate was the catalyst behind Team USA’s defensive pressure. Or was it D’antoni. Not!! Please don’t get me started on Duke.

Cuz, that’s why I have a mute button and aint afraid to use it. I was jammin some old Herbie Handcock, “Maiden Voyage”. My Cuz, Butch wouldn’t leave the BBQ joint when I was rock’n that back in TTown. I think i’ll go with some Joe Sample, “Ashes to Ashes” or Earl Klugh, “”Heart String”, when they take on Argentina. The way they’re playing right now. I would be surprised if Argentina comes within 20, when it’s all said and done.

Guys that big, fast, deep, hungry and defensive minded. Hard to beat. They just wear you down.

Cuz, tell Woody and My Boy Rick, I really enjoyed that practice at Woodward Academy. Real personable. Much better than the frozen tundra of Phillips Arena. Any word on any open practices this year?

By Russell

August 20, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

Nice post Sekou! Typical American arrogance and narrow mindedness in your comments.. I hope you don’t get payed for this mate!

By Gridiron Baller

August 20, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

Can’t help it if y’all got beat like run away slaves, Russell. Hey, did y’all ever win your independence from England? No? It was all just a sham? Yeah, thought so.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 20, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Complaining about “American arrogance” is just a fancy way of saying “we are sore losers”. I’m not even American and I’m tired of the incessant whining from nearly every international team. Can’t wait to see Team USA beat the crap out of the rest of these sorry FIBA all-stars.

By LL Cool Scott

August 20, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

Russell - You’re completely full of nonsense. I lived in Australia for a couple years and everyone there was just as arrogant about their swim team. If you’re dominant at something, you become arrogant. It’s a fact of life.

By doc

August 20, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

who is chris collins or for that matter doug collins? oh yeah, doesnt it start with loser and end with cash entitlement. self promotion at its best, a 21st century marvel. what have you done in your life except remove a silver spoon? go on chile. shame your last name isnt jackson cause you might get some respect that way. ;-))

By Mike is back

August 20, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Nice post Sekou, it so easy to forget that Bogut was chosen number one ahead of CPaul and DWilliam. You hear everyone in the sports world including Doug weak A Collins dogging the Hawks for taking Marvin over those two cats, but seldom do hear anyone dogging the Bucks for taking Bogut over CPaul and DWilliams. The fact is that the Hawks have gotten a better return on there draft pick up to this point in both players’ careers. Bogut ain’t a bust, but he did stay at a Holiday Inn for the game against Team USA.

No one accepts excuses for Marvin performance, so why should they make excuses for Bogut. You expect this guy to remind NBA players why he was chosen number one in the NBA draft, especially since two of cats he was drafted ahead of was playing in the game.

This team is a mirror image of MJ old Olympic Team. Team USA will continue to dominate and,” Beat The Brakes Off Of These International Teams” and remind the world that the best Professional Basketball athlete reside in the NBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for Doug Collins, you had Michael Jordon and Grant Hill in his prime, and you still can’t keep your job? What a sapppppppppppppppppppppppppp. Heh Heh,lol

Oh yea Sekou, Philly is looking scary with the signing of EBrand and TRadcliff. They should be a nice compliment to that young dynamite squad. Iggy and LueWilliams, tell Sund his work ain’t finish yet, we need another Bigggggggggggggggg.

By Sam from Oz

August 21, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

Dear All,

As possibly the only Hawks fan (for over 15 years) in Australia and an avid reader of this blog, I would like to make a few observations on the game (or at least the portion of the game that Australian audiences witnessed - yes the decision to keep covering the softball was abhorrent) and the comments posted above.

1. I thought it humorous that the US pundits had braced themselves for an upset last night. It was never going to happen. The game of basketball has been dying a slow death for 10 years in Australia, notwithstanding some very talented individuals currently wearing the green and gold. Other than Bogut, none of the Aussie play in the NBA and the majority are local players. Bogut’s comments were accurate. Bogut’s comments above were accurate. Further, the spin from Andrew Gaze before the game stems from his position on the board of Basketball Australia and he was trying to use the publicity to promote the dwindling interest in the game to an Olympics-obsessed nation. I don’t think he actually expected anything less than a 30 point over/under.

2. Sekou, you write: “The Australians didn’t seem to have the guts or talent to muster much of a comeback once the US grabbed them by the throat.” After Kobe personally dismantled the Boomers in the 3rd, I would not consider that Australia “quit”. In fact, it would have been very easy to roll over like the Germans did and lose by 30, but Gorjian cleaned his bench and some of the younger guys showed some spark (refer to Joe Ingles’ fourth quarter cameo of 10 mins, 4-4 FG including 3-3 3pts and one huge jam).

3. Bogut carried an ankle injury into the tournament and played big when Aus was in a hole down 0-2 after losing to Croatia and Argentina. He dominated Lithuania. And while I cringe every time this blog recalls the Marvin draft disaster, it fills me with pride that an Aussie went #1, no matter how his career turns out. That said, Bogut is a solid 15 and 10 for the next 5-8 years, has good passing range and is a big unit. I would rather have him in a Hawks uniform than MW (or Kwame Brown or Andrea Bargani for that matter).

4. Australia has never played in awe of the US, dating back to Shane Heal going toe-to-toe with Barkley in 92 and 96. Their tactic of referring to players by number rather than name was great. The Team USA perception by the rest of the world that Beck chastised the Aussie commentators about is there and needed to be addressed. This year has marked a notable difference from past teams, but to refer to yourself as the “Redeem Team” again suggests a self-assumed right to be regarded as number one. Team USA is a good enough name. For the record, I think that the Boomers is a terrible name.

5. I championed the idea of the Hawks picking up David Anderson, but after his performance last night, I think he is best kept to the Euroleague.

6. I think Brad Newley showed some talent and maybe the Rockets will think about bringing him some time soon in after drafting him second round last year.

7. I hope the best for Paddy Mills and for Nathan Jawai at the Raptors this year too.

8. I cannot see anyone beating USA to the gold. Although I will be cheering Argentina, Spain and Lithuania on.

Go Hawks! Sam - Melbourne, Australia

By Gypsyjoe

August 21, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

I don’t know if the Hawks are going to add any more body’s before vet camp. If they are I have one name I never here any talk about. The kid from the heat. His name is Earl Barron. He is 7 feet tall and about 260. He could be some one that would not cost alot. Thx Sekou and keep up the great updates.

By Ash

August 21, 2008 4:45 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

i really enjoy your blogs but this one was too much - im an australian hawks fan and this was just you being angry. No way did we quit - and Gaze was just trying to get some media attention for Basketball down under. The US are far and away the superior team in China and its good to see, but you can stick this blog up your a*se sekou.

By ray

August 21, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

…yawn….

By Jay

August 21, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Sekou What is the possibility of the Hawks trading for Javaris Crittendon? I know that Memphis is trying to move a point guard and are always looking for expiring contracts. Could we get him for Zaza? I know the back court is crowded but I doubt Bibby will be around after next year. Having him and Acie for the future could make up for our past point guard mistakes. Especially with him being home grown. What do you and the rest of the bloggers think!

By I.MUS WRITE

August 21, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Solo is being shopped……Its time -yung’n has’nt shown any improvement IMO and he skipped out on summer league.

I think we should try to get Joe smith to round out our front court. He would be a nice fit for the team behind smoove at Pf……………………………….

By Justin

August 21, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Sekou, There’s a blip on hoopshype.com about the hawks shopping solomon so they can free up a roster spot and make one more addition to the roster. Do you know anything about that?

By Melvin

August 21, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

IMUS, what could we possibly get in return for Solo? He doesn’t have a strong resume at all. He didn’t get much playing time, unimpressive stats and small salary (NBA wise). Not sure if we could get anyone in return for him that will make a meaningful impact to the team. Here’s to Solo pulling a Josh Smith and seek help with his individual workouts this summer.

By I.MUS WRITE

August 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Melvin- We couldnt get a bag of chips for Solo but …… ZAZA/Solo/Chills right for Joe Smith/D Wilkens sound really good …….. We are thin at sf… Joe smith is alot better than ZAZa also…just a thought….

By Melvin

August 21, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

I would like your trade suggestion a little better if you didn’t include Chills. Eventhough Joe Smith would be serviceable, I think we could get more in return for Chills… I would like to see us acquire Channing Frye from Portland.

By I.MUS WRITE

August 21, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

I mentioned Chillz becuz to me 11 points in 30 minutes is easily replaceable…..There is no gaurantee that chillz will ever play here again so renouncing his rights means nuthn to me, Chills did allot for us but i like evans/murray combo better…….

As far as getting more for Chills -There were’nt alot of teams knocking on his door this summer so….

I like Frye but he is kinda soft to me -Joe Smith would be a good back up to Horford and Smooth…..

By I.MUS WRITE

August 21, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

I mentioned Chillz becuz to me 11 points in 30 minutes is easily replaceable…..There is no gaurantee that chillz will ever play here again so renouncing his rights means nuthn to me, Chills did allot for us but i like evans/murray combo better…….

As far as getting more for Chills -There were’nt alot of teams knocking on his door this summer so….

I like Frye but he is kinda soft to me -Joe Smith would be a good back up to Horford and Smooth…..

By Realist

August 21, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

2004 - World basketball has passed us by, the USA will never dominate again. We don’t have a coach that can get through to NBA players.

2008 - The USA rules, and that overrated Duke guy and his staff had nothing to do with it. It’s not like he had anything to do with putting together a well-rounded group, getting everyone to buy into the team and coaching them up to be a well-oiled machine. Yep, they are definitely winning in spite of the coach. How could the USA ever lose?

By Realist

August 21, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

Justin, why would Sekou know anything about a scoop?

By FA

August 21, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Hi …

Good to see USA doing its thing at Olympics. Would like to see J.Smith or Joe Johnson at 2012 Olympics? Friday will be a KILLING FOLKS!!!! Anyway, little poll for namins J. Smith as possible best dunker of modern era for a big man. Get it here and vote Hawk fans!!!!

By Sam from Oz

August 21, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

A correction to my previous post. I meant to say that it would have been easy for Australia to roll over by the Germans and lose by “50 points”.

Also, I find it amusing that the US media is now conducting a count of the Olympic medal table by total number of medals, rather than how the rest of the world counts it - gold medals first. Face it, China has smashed the US in these Games, much as Great Britain has disappointingly smashed Australia. What’s next, counting by number of medalists so that the US can boost its figures in all the team sports? HA!!

By ray

August 21, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

Well, well. If it isn’t our old friend Realist.

I think anyone with common sense knows that Kryzewski and his staff have put together a good scheme, and have picked the right guys to execute it. Jerry Colangelo (and his pals) put a good group together from top to bottom. I don’t see anybody continuing to take shots at Kryzewski here, soooooo…Um…why the sarcasm?

Oh, did you hear the news? Your boss re-signed Josh Smith. Guess “camp” is out now, huh? Gosh darn it all. And you worked so hard to change the direction of the flow of conversation here. Heh! The bad thing is that all you have left is that blue-vein throbber you have for Sekou.

Interesting question you had for Justin. Why would a beat writer know anything about a scoop? Wouldn’t you like to know. Welcome to the Dirty South. It ain’t Seattle. Try not to get homesick.

By Ken Strickland

August 21, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

I MUS WRITE-obviously you can’t appreciate the overall contributions of a player like Chills. The fact you only referenced his 11.8PPG proves that. Neither of the 2 players you mentioned that’s suppose to replace him has ever averaged his PPG, RPG or APG. And, Chills didn’t started, nor did he have a single play run for him.

Neither Murray, Evans, nor anyone else, will be able to replace what Chills did for this team overall. However, they will bring a diffenent dimension to this team. They can create their own shot, penetrate and shoot off the dribble, and both have an effective midrange gm. Those are attributes that weren’t Chills’ strong suit. So, instead of replacing Chills and his contributions, we’ve simply added new dimensions to our bench that we previously didn’t have. This will make us stronger during crunch time, as well as allow us to maintain leads much better.

It’s trre that Solomon hasn’t shown if or how much he’s progressed over the last 2 yrs. I guess he felt he would never get a chance to prove anything as long as he played under Woodson. Has Salim signed with anyone?

By MannyT

August 21, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Sekou, Hawksquawkers, Slammers, et al In the middle of August when there is little going on, my boy Ed knows a thing or two about keeping the uber-fan happy.

The Sixers are fantastic…to bloggers

Something about the NBA that is worth talking about in the blogosphere.

Philly showing some good PR CRAP.

By Melvin

August 21, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Good link Manny T. I especially link this quote..

Asked why the Sixers never made an offer to Josh Smith, after courting him, Stefanski said the Sixers love Smith, but suspected the Hawks would match any offer they made. They had also never been certain who might enter unrestricted free agency, and were thrilled when Elton Brand entered the market. Asked later if he thought the Hawks got Smith at a bargain rate, Stefanski said he thought the Hawks were very pleased to have been able to match an offer to Smith, instead of negotiating themselves

By jhan

August 21, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

“Neither Murray, Evans, nor anyone else, will be able to replace what Chills did for this team overall” - take it easy Ken. I like Chills also but put down the pipe! LOL!

If you mean no individual on our current roster can replace what Chills brought then I agree. But there are multiple people in the league who bring much more than Chills will ever bring.

By ray

August 21, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

“Put down the bag pipe”

LOL!

Now I have to go and watch “BraveHeart”….

By Sekou K. Smith

August 21, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Stefanski’s stuff was a terribly interesting read MannyT. Good stuff and good insight from the GM who basically turned the summer upside down with the move he made for Brand. You are the linkmaster, by the way

As for the chatter about Solo being moved, I think it was made clear here last month just how unhappy the Hawks were with his decision to skip summer league. If you just look at the additions, it’s easy to see that Solo’s spot on the roster is tenuous at best.

Anyone that expects anything more than a second round pick for Solo is dreaming. Adding another veteran big is a great idea. But adding one now limits the pool of candidates.

Why not wait until training camp starts and see who shakes out of the pack from the camp invitees around the league and snag the best available big there?

By Ken Strickland

August 22, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

JHAN-I meant exactly what I said. Evans and Murray avg 20.8 and 22.9MPG last yr. There’s no way both will reach those totals this yr, especially under Woodson. I guarantee none of them will approach Chills 4.9RPG since 2.0, 2.1 and 2.9RPG is the best any of them have done. None of them has been able to match his 11.8PPG, nor his shooting proficiency 571%, FT-807%. Only his 3PT% can be matched by any of them. And you have to consider there were times when both Murray and Evans were primary scoring options.

If you thihk the combination of these 3 can approach Chills overall production (especially with Woodson’s documented inability, or unwillingness, to consistently utilize more than 7 players)maybe you should consider putting down what you’re smoking. They will obviously bring an added dimension to the team that Chills didn’t, but they will not sufficiently replace the things he did for the team.

By doc

August 22, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this

realist, you got a problem per your 5:31? sounds like you got a chip, because the guy has gotten it cold right every time in spite of the smoke screens, as many of us have. inquiring minds want to know dude. people with chips are only trying to hide things, come on out of the closet, man reveal yourself. or if you do you are had, right? most get what you are so why dont you just join the group and say what you want, as you are. after all chipper did it on the men in blog. quit with all the sabotage and be brave or can you?

realist, you are worse than cc; at least he had integrity to id himself and can be respected for that and he stands tall. after all you are a grown man, right? ticket buyers await your revelation.

the realist in me says the reality of it all is realist you better win baby. simple mantra, just win baby and you just might but that speaks a lot louder than your trite little taunts, now doesnt it? dont play games now, too many watching the fools at play. y’all come back now. after all the bar is pretty low at 37 wins, right? slam dunk, right? we will see.

if you want to play and get respect here then give us a scoop yourself; then we are on the same team or isnt that what it is all about the hawks and folks that have cared for them a lot longer than you have in your three months on the job? i’ve been here 50 years son biding my time to see another championship. i wonder if you are up to the task or are you just up to wanting to get at a beat writer for the only local paper?

dont you have something better to do like watch film or talk to cpa’s and lawyers about making the team better? or maybe form an alliance with the fan base here and the only paper in town that really gets slammed by real fans more for being soft on the franchise than it should. do you think you could survive in a real media market? plain and simple, you are the soft guys dude, cant stand the heat. soft and dont want to be accountable for being one of the worst franchises in the last four or nine years in the nba, that is the legacy you have to beat, now are you up to the task of such a low bar.

realist that is the reality. give me a break. now go back to the boys and tell them too grow up and get a winner in town and reap the rewards. they should have gotten it by now but obviously didnt the way they treated chills. yeah real simple formula realist, just win baby. now that would be a real scoop! i see the headlines now, hawks finish over .500 for the year. just do it!

go hawks!

By Justin

August 22, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

I agree…we can’t get crap for Solomon. Hoopshype made it sound like we just wanted to get rid of a guaranteed contract before we added anything. I think if we could get all the players gift cards to Subway and a knee donor list for Speedy we would be well compensated.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 22, 2008 1:35 AM | Link to this

Whoa… MannyT is the linkmaster? You just gonna take that, SalimFan?

By Sekou K. Smith

August 22, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this

Najeh, SalimFan is Morpheus when it comes to links. He’s on a totally different level than the rest of us in that regard. So let’s make MannyT his NEO.

We’ve got room for everyone around here. Ha.

By Sautee

August 22, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

Sekou

I think you’ll enjoy this. My wife like to come up with combining phrases to make a new word. For example, “letter to the Editor” becomes a “leditor”.

Her new one is “Sekudo”. That’s when one gets a compliment from Sekou.

So, Manny and SF just got a Sekudo.

Not to be confused with Sudoku, a Japanese logic problem using numbers.

By keith edmundson returns

August 22, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

A few things to ponder going into training camp:

1) We will miss Chills, plain and simple. Don’t disregard his contribution. Those same people are clamoring would attack Ben Gordon because he wantsa big contract. Either one would help this team more than what we currently have. 2) Let’s see what Evans & Murray do before we annoint them better than Chills. It was Russia or the Hawks for Flip, so what does that tell you around the league? This is not a Pargo scenario. 3) David Andersen will never be a NBA player. He does not like the physical part of the game and it shows in the Olympics and every other time I have seen him. Let’s move on and call it a wasted selection. Have we heard that before in this town? 4) Solo = Salim….2 guys who aren’t convincing anyone they can fit into a rotation. While I thought Shelden might do more than what he has done away from Woody, I don’t feel like the other 2 are headed for any additional minutes in this league. 5) Sekou, tell us more of what Hunter and Gardner can do for this team. Can they actually challenge our starters in practice and make them better? That is what you hope for in a 2nd unit. Woody needs to put 5 guys together that makes that first unit hungry to get away from practice and beat up on someone else.

Any behind the scenes news of pick up games is always welcome. Who would have known about the Smoove scrimmages with Jarrett and Javaris and Louis unless you brought them up Sekou? That is the kind of stuff I want to hear.

Let’s see what Woody can put together now that he has some security in his job, if you can call 2 years security with this team. What does one major injury do to this team? Can we fill a slot with Evans/Zaza?

By I.MUS WRITE

August 22, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Come on……… I know what Chillz did for this team. Great rebounder hustle guy, occasional point guard etc… etc…

Chillz was our glue guy and we will miss that,but the guy did have holes in his game. He had problems getting by defenders/creating off the dribble…. Slow of foot, which translates into him getting beat off the dribble alot……..Not really a strong finisher etc Chillz never really took over a game with his offense…he was dependent on JJ and others to get points …tip ins put backs fast break points…….GLORIFIED GARBAGE MAN

The new guyz give us a demension that we were missing off the bench. Both guys can score -off the dribble or from long range…..not to mention better defense.

We will be better this year trust me……..KS if these guyz got starter minutes like Chillz im sure they would have put up the same numbers or better…30 min is alot of playing time in the NBA……

For Joe smith/Damien Wilkins ………I would gladly put ZAZA/SOLO/Chills rights on the table for a trade. We have had guys over seas for years that will probably never play here….Cenk Akoyl,David Anderson….What makes yall think our owners will pony up to bring him back after 2/3 years when they still have to take care of JJ,Horford,Marvin……Letz have a candle light vidgle and put this to rest………Afro man is gone forever.

By Nate ArchiBALL

August 22, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Sekou, Doug Collins is the worst basketball analyst on TV. He’s held that title for a while. Not much of a coach, either. I lay a lot of the blame for the poor development of Kwame Brown at the hands of Doug Collins and Michael Jordan, Chicago fans should feel lucky that Collins returning to coach the Bulls didn’t work out.

By doc

August 22, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

keith agrre and suggest a better question is whether they will be allowed to compete to displace a starter, remember one of our big f a conquests got dumoed because he couldnt keep his job and lost it to a rookie that was selected after we picked. flip couldnt make the grade. i understand it was with the second best team in the league but that is not how i look to fortify my team by someone elses rejects that couldnt hold onto his job over a guy we overlooked in the draft.

sixers upgraded on paper, they still need to gel we added bodies is all so far. season coming to answer the questions. those bodies might have made a huge difference last year and glad they are here, so make no mistake about my inference. let us see if they can do it with more significant roles to play this year.

By ray

August 22, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

I’ll say this much: those bodies we added are veterans. You know, the things Woody and JJ were hollering for last season.

Again, these guys can contribute, but how well is entirely up to how they are used. If we were getting last year’s stats from them, we’d be better off offensively. Evans was puttin’ up over 9 a game, and when Flip was with Indiana, he was getting over 11. That’s 20 ppg.

But here’s the spoiler: both guys were playing in starting roles. They won’t be here. We’ll see what happens, but Woody’s offensive “design” will have a lot to do with this. We’ll know what’s wrong or right the minute the season gets cranked up. If these guys can’t produce anywhere near what they were doing for other teams, the lowest common denominator will be easy to figure out….

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 22, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Poop. I, Salimfan Sir Links A Lot have no problem with Manny AKA “King of Acronympho” being Neo lol……even though in the movie Neo is cooler and gets more screentime….thanks for the complement Sekou lol…

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 22, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Ray, I agree. These additions to the team also make injuries not so much of a big deal like they were last season. I someone gets hurt now, they don’t have to risk further injury by rushing their recovery time.

Hopefully that leadt common denomonator won’t come into play lol.

By Melvin

August 22, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

THE BLOGGER FORMALLY KNOW AS SALIMFAN, maybe having an injury would be a blessing in disguise. In the past, Woody utilize his bench better when we were underman….lol… However, i don’t want any of these guys to get hurt. I guess I was polking the stick at Mr.WAF…

By clint

August 22, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Donyell Marshall got released. Anybody think we should sign him. He’s a big that can shoot, rebound, and block a shot.

By Melvin

August 22, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Clint, I think we should pass on Donyell. He’s too soft. We need a nasty banger… Donyell is all perimeter…

By jhan

August 22, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

I’m confused:

Childress was a bench player who played 30min game for a 37 win team & is considered irreplaceable?

Evans was a starter who averaged 20/min on a 52 win team & is not deemed worthy of our squad?

Murray was a bench player for a 59 win team & is considered Euro-trash now? In Detroit he averaged 18min, 8pts, 3assists & 2rbs per game. All from the guard position. Sounds like a bench player to me, not a starter.

I understand all that Chills brought to the team & he truly was one of my favorites. I just don’t think we will have that hard of a time replacing his production.

Ultimately this season will fall on the shoulders of our fearless or (clueless) leader - time will tell. He has veteran players on the bench at every position. It’s up to him to utilize each & every one of them.

Ken - you bring up the fact that Chills played PG & SG. He played them but not well. He was totally lost playing either position. He doesn’t have good enough ball handling skills or lateral quickness to play PG. Defensively he was fine at SG - offensively not even close. You can’t play SG in this league when you shoot from your waist.

He scored the majority of his points picking up odd rebounds & on the fast break. For that to happen he needs to play under/around the basket all the time. I’ll take my chances with Horford, Smith, Williams, Evans & Murray over Horford, Smith, Williams & Chills. I like the fact that Evans & Murray will play their natural positions not be forced to play out of position.

I feel like Ando or Ray with this long winded diatribe. Even using some $10 words to boot!

By Samuel

August 22, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Jhan,

I couldn’t agree with you more. People here just refuse to give MY BOY Rick any credit. I have been saying, every since the rumor about Childress surfaced, that he’s not Irreplaceable. The combination of Evans and Murray will more than make up for Childress.

I also think it’s time we used fearless instead of clueless in referring to Woody. The man has weathered the storm. He has turned the corner. Just watch.

Noticed how the EUROS are dropping like flies. What started out as a condemnation of everything NBA has turned into: “I don’t know if I will play in another Olympics”, by the great Euro Hopes(Dirk, Bogat, Gasol).

I think it’s time to bring the College boys back and make a game of it before the IOC outlaws basketball.

By ray

August 22, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Worry not, Jhan my brother. You have to add at least 6 more paragraphs to be considered that much of a big mouth. And do it consistently. Heh…..

I agree that the addition of guys like Evans and Murray add dimensions to the team that Chills did not bring. Dimensions that we have not had in a while. We’ll see how it goes. One other thing to consider: Chills’ production can be replaced by existing players. If Marvin ramps up his rebounding and scoring, that’s part of it right there…

Interested in seeing what can/will be done to improve the frontcourt.

By jhan

August 22, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

I would love to see college players in the Olympics again. The only problem is that the best college players leave after the first year. I remember thinking it was awesome that our college kids were competing against Euro professionals.

Samuel, I’m willing to temporarily remove the “clueless” tag from Woody. If our young players can mature & learn their craft then our young coach will hopefully do the same. I keep reminding myself that he was dealt a HORRIBLE hand (broke owners, incompetent GM, untalented team) & probably deserves one more shot.

I hope to read your posts after next season saying “I told you so” about Woody & Sund. Nothing would make me happier as a Hawks fan.

A side note about players who don’t ever have plays run for them - why not?

Maybe because their game = LOSS: Lack of scoring skills

And if you ran plays for them your team would have lots of LOSSES!

That’s my best Manny impersonation. Consider yourself flattered!

Back to the Olympics.

By doc

August 22, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

samuel the season hasnt started yet, so i wll refrain from declaring more than i know. it was a 37 game winner that is hoping internal organic growth wins the day over solid acquisitions either in personnel or coaches among teams in our division. can we wait until after the first few games at least before we declare success? i think we have time and dude the bar is set pretty low. we will have until the end of april to determine the success of the moves this franchise has made. some really good additions, not great and something of integrity that got away.

By MannyT

August 23, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

Checking back in after my Olympics high!

I know this is hoops, but I LOVE the Olympics. My 400m faves on the track, the world’s greatest athlete is 5-11, 185 lbs really, the volleyball is to the US what diving is to China—can’t touch this!

Thanks for the kind words Sekou. I have no doubt that there is enough space in the Matrix for both me and Ariose

I’d love to add LOSS to the mix jhan I am flattered, here in the blogosphere matrix. LOSS is cool. I just hope it is not accurate for 2008-09. Whoa ;-)

I was sorry to see Chills leave. I like the flexibility he gave Woody. Now, coaching will be more important because the new guys can play, but individually, they do not cover as many options as Chills did. Collectively, they do. That means less WAF and more coaching. Is he up to the task? Ask me again for New Years! If he doesn’t change, the best thing about Evans & Murray is that they won’t be shy to put up a shot as the clock runs down…unless they end up in the Woody doghouse. Taking a flashlight to the inside, you can see knife carvings like Salim was here 06-07-08 also how did I get here? ACLawIV. An older, but telling one, Why draft me 5 and bury me alive? I (heart) CP. -Landlord! Back in an old dark corner there is one special carving TDelk rules!

While I have lots of respect for the energy and enthusiasm of the college players, how many of them are ready to play the rougher FIBA game after coming from the NCAA. Son, you might be quicker than that 30 year old, chain smoking dude with a full beard who has more hair on his back than you do on your head. But when he grabs your shorts and knocks you to the ground, that FIBA ref might not call a thing. Just play through it. With all the one and done players, I don’t see the fearsome USA team coming from the college all-american ranks that would have been a subset of the AP All American Team for 2008:

FIRST TEAM G: DJ Augustin (Texas) G: Chris Douglas-Roberts (Memphis) F: Michael Beasley (Kansas State) F: Tyler Hansbrough (UNC) C: Kevin Love (UCLA)

SECOND TEAM G: Stephen Curry (Davidson) G: Shan Foster (Vanderbilt) F: Luke Harangody (Notre Dame) F: DJ White (Memphis) C: Roy Hibbert (Georgetown)

THIRD TEAM G: Darren Collison (UCLA) G: Chris Lofton (Tennessee) G: Eric Gordon (Indiana) G: Derrick Rose (Memphis) C: Brook Lopez (Stanford)

Before you say, this could work, think about summer league play. How many of these guys stood out against 2nd year NBA players? Sure you might put in a summer league stand out or two, but remember, you have to drop 3 of these guys before you swap out more for your summer stars. hmmm—I don’t see gold, maybe no medals at all.

And finally in a nod to Astro Joe Why follow the money if you can lead the money! True Hoop has a piece about the guy in FL that trademarked Redeem Team a few hours before USA Basketball! LOL Just remember the 800lb gorilla might not laugh best, but it will laugh last. This is the USA Basketball REDEEM TEAM trademark request, To see the one that came in just before it, put a 2 in the box just before the blue Record 1 of 2

A Battle of the big bucks is always good CRAP. Wish I had thought of it during the opening ceremonies!

By MannyT

August 23, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this

The government’s trying to beat down the little man’s Redeem Team Trademark links.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=tu459c.1.1

Use above link and put REDEEM TEAM in the search term box. Then press SUBMIT QUERY. You should see 2 rows of trademark applications. Row 1 is USA basketball, row 2 is Tony Fletcher of St. Cloud, FL.

By ray

August 23, 2008 7:52 AM | Link to this

I’ll agree that Woody has been dealt a bad hand. I’ll also contend that this team was pretty healthy last year and should have won more games.

I’ll agree that Woody is not entirely clueless. I’ll contend that our offensive designs SUCKED, Woody said we’d run (and we stopped doing it 10 games into the season), and we kept doing the exact same stuff every game.

I’ll not agree that Woody was “fearless”. For those who question that, I simply refer to the Q&A article Sekou did with him after he was re-signed to a 2-year contract. In it, Woodson himself states that he “became desperate” down the stretch. He says himself that he was doing things that even his assistant coaches were fighting him on. He admitted to shortening up the rotation (fear, not fearlessness), and not playing Acie Law enough (fear again). He said he thought he was doing the right thing. I can accept that.

But I can’t accept more of the same. I’ve said before that some decent moves were made here in the offseason. Others have as well. Of course, some of us don’t see that, we just want to complain that NOBODY appreciates “our boy Sund.” Having chattered so much about it, and pumped up the moves we made….we should win at least 8 more games, right? Surely that is not unreasonable.

Woody has a slew of veterans in the backcourt with only one or possibly two young players, one of which is Law. The frontcourt is still a bit young, but very talented. I still advocate one more veteran big. However, we’re in good shape, especially with what “our boy Sund” has done. Right? So the only thing that could hold this team back is injuries. Right?

I want to believe that our head coach will do things better than he has in the past. We don’t have time for Mea Culpas anymore. We need to win. We want to win. We must win.

So, Woody has finally been dealt a good hand. “Our boy Sund” has made a pile of good moves. Everybody who played last year will be improved. Our frontcourt is perfectly fine. We have a fearless leader in Woodson. We should win at least 45 games and maybe get to the second round of the playoffs……………………………………………Right?

By ray

August 23, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this

Something tells me Shaun Livingston will make some team very glad they took a chance on him. Too bad it won’t be us.

By Samuel

August 23, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Ray,

The only difference in Woody and any coach worth his salt in that article is his honesty. What coach wouldn’t shorten the rotation and push for the playoffs. I have worked as an assistant as well as a head coach and this happens every year and nearly every game. Maybe his assistants wanted his job. We’ll see what they do if and when they get their chance.

I think we can move up in the pact this year and possibly grab the 7th spot.

1. Boston
2. Detroit
3. Orlando
4. Washington
5. Cleveland
6. Philly
7. Atlanta
8. Toronto

Of course the 7th and 8th spots will be hottly contested and any one of three other teams can knock the Hawks and Raptors out. I believe that the Team USA players did a great thing but will suffer this year because of all the time, travel and energy they expended in the process.

I think that 45 wins in totally reasonable. I’m not sure we can make it to the second round though. That’s a big jump. Playing better on the road in the playoffs would be more likely but who knows. If Detroit moves Sheed and Chauncy and slip to #3 we could definately beat Orlando.

We’ll just have to see.

Obviously, Livingston has lost his quickness, otherwise somebody would have picked him up by now. He may regain it later or may end up being another Penny, which is sad.

By ray

August 23, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

I hope Livingston isn’t that cursed.

Samuel, this is hindsight foolishness, but considering the way we played Boston…could we have beaten Philly or Washington in the playoffs last year? I think so, considering how we played at home. Making the second round is definitely a tough thing. I’d rather make the 6th or 7th spot so as to avoid that 1st seed matchup again. Otherwise it’s often times a foregone conclusion. Yeah, you make the playoffs, but….

If Woody shows himself to be as good as you say, then GREAT, because that means we win. In fact, cook that crow any way you want, I’ll eat it. If not, I’d like to see if Larry Drew can do something with ‘em. I don’t see us paying the cash for a good, proven head coach. Wait a minute….just about none of those guys are looking for jobs…

By I.MUS WRITE

August 23, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Manny - That was funny but true….the knife carvings inside the doghouse,U forgot the “Solo is a beast” on the bottom left panel…LOL

Our college players are not ready to battle the world, The past 2 olymics the US professional were sent home -tail between leggs so how can Fr/Soph 19 year old kids do a better job.

When college players were winning they were 4 year college starters -not guys fresh out of high school….Danny Manning,The Admiral,Chris mullin etc….

Manny-if u take the top 12 players from the list above - We will get our azzez handed to us.

…..Invite Kyle Francensco to camp -he played well in the summer league for Utah….Big body plays with attitude

By Samuel

August 23, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

I think the key was the committment and time put in. If we target these guys at say, 16, and keep them together until after their freshmen year, they are definately capable of beating these EUROS.

Talent has never been the problem. It’s always been about committment and consistancy. I say give it a try since we know that with our best. Its really no contest. If we lose we can always go back to Redeem Team 2.

By MannyT

August 23, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Samuel I have to fill you in. USA Basketball does target youger guys. That is why we have U18 and U19 select teams where you will recognize some of the names. They struggle to win their age group in international competition.

If you are honest, those kids might have great futures, but they could not beat a team of Americans playing in the Euroleague, featuring guys like Trajan Langdon and JR Holden.

I.MUS I agree that the kids would not be competitive. I believe I said as much.

Now we could make a 25 & under team that would win. You lose several key guys, but you had enough of a core (6 guys-Anthony, Bosh, Howard, James, Paul, & Williams) for 2008. However, you would have to reload for 2012 as none of them will be under 25. The vets would have been the young guys on this team that were your OJ Mayo, Kevin Love, Lopez bros, Mike Beasley, etc.)

It’s just tricky to deal with very high expectations. Case in point, USA Track & Field at the Olympics. Most would agree that this was a bad Olympics for the track team. However, they won more medals in every category (overall, gold, silver, bronze) than ANY other country. Tough to swallow, you are the best team, but you are nowhere near as good as we thought you would be.

Expectation PAIN is all about perceptions.

By ray

August 23, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

I could give a rat’s arse who we send to the Olympics as long as we are competitive and win. I’ll be watching tomorrow’s medal game hopefully.

After that….well, training camp can’t get here quick enough. Wonder what’s going on with Solo and getting another big on the squad?

Stepped into the Falcons blog a couple of times. Same mixture as always. 20% who actually care about the team and want to talk football. 80% who want to do nothing but attack anybody they come across and moan about Mike Vick. Sighhhhhh….

By doc

August 23, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

samuel are you saying o’neal on the raptors is going to set that team back? i disagree they improved huge with that addition if o’neal isnt but a shadow of his former self. bosh will help his knees. i doubt they will finish behind us. you have made a very strong statement that we havent improved that much if that is your order of finish. we will struggle to get into the playoffs as i agree with everything except the wiz that far up and us ahead of the raptors. they could be deadly with the o;neal addition even if they have a soft euro or two.

the pacers, bulls, heat and bucks will work hard to displace us out of the 8 position. only the wiz have a chance to free fall if arenas isnt ready. other teams have gotten stronger or at least should be expected to stay the same in your list.

By Samuel

August 23, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Doc,

I kinda believe JOneal is somewhat in the same situation as SOneal in PHX. He’s all about slow-down halfcourt on a team built for uptempo. He will help, but not that much. I believe that Bibby for an entire year, Horford in his Sophmore season, an improved Woody, the addition of Flip and Mo, and our playoff high can put us ahead of the Raptors.

Doc, how much is enough of an improvement for you. From having not sniffed the post-season in 10 years to making them two years in a row is good enough for me, however, I believe we can win a first round series if all the cards fall right.

I believe Agent Zero will be back to his old self. He showed us that he can still ball in limited time back last year. He was just rusty and out of shape. He’ll be ready. Add a more confident Nick Young and the Wizards should be right back near the top third of the conference.

By doc

August 23, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

i hope o’neal is not in the same throes as shaq. as much as i love shaq he is resembling man wanting somehow to be relevant knowing his time has passed. what with his trash thrown at kobe recently this summer to his remarks about kobe’s fidelity to only fall prey to his own weakness and now being accused as a stalker, it is sad. no, i just dont think o’neal is in that category physically or emotionally. i still think the guy and the raptors can bring it especially with a point guard many of us would prefer to bibby and wish the trade had gone down to get and with bosh a member of the redeem team to which we have no contributors.

it will require that both woody and jj give the reins to the bad boys smash and horford. if they do then i am fine with your aspirations and i think the sky is the limit. i just dont think woody and jj are willing to do it ,just yet.

By Samuel

August 23, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Doc,

Make no mistake about it, JJ is still the best offensive player on this team. Hands down. Followed by Bibby. Horford and Josh will post up and get some plays but they both will get the majority of their baskets on rebounds and transition buckets.

JJ still will have the reigns with a little more juice to work with.

By doc

August 23, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

kobe, had to learn to trust his teammates to make the next step, though jj is not in his category jj will have to do the same in order for the hawks to take flight. if he and woody insist on the one on one game it is only dooming the team to failure because as good is jj is and as much as i wanted jj to be the man, he is not in the category as kobe or dwayne. he can pretend he is and woody can pretend it to be but if they do we are still doomed to less than 40 wins in a season. when those two guys realize it is more a team game for the hawks which requires a bit more work from woody not jj then they will succeed. the team has to succeed with some of the offense going through horford and smash and not always through jj. it may be more than either can comprehend or master.

By femhawkfan

August 24, 2008 5:07 AM | Link to this

USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! WAY TO GO, TEAM USA!!! THE GOLD IS FINALLY YOURS, AGAIN!!!

By Samuel

August 24, 2008 5:36 AM | Link to this

I think I just said that Horford and Josh will get some plays called for them. JJ played one on one because we didn’t have another guy on the team who could shoot before Bibby got here.

They will run plays,(Translation: pick and roll 90% of the time), like every other NBA team but you still need guys who can beat their man off the dribble and score. JJ and Bibby are two of the best as far as that’s concerned.

Again, the key to the Hawks success will be pressure defense. That’s how we will use our youth and athleticism to our advantage. We whe do need to go half court, we have one of the best in JJ. Thank God.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 24, 2008 5:44 AM | Link to this

USA wins! I know we’re all happy to hear that, but I’m sure Samuel especially is celebrating the demise of the EURO TRASH…

By ray

August 24, 2008 7:02 AM | Link to this

Yes, the gold is ours once again!

JJ is definitely one of the best in half court (no slouch in full court either). Woody damn well better run some plays through Horford and Smith. Shooters or no, that would’ve helped last year. Guaranteed.

Mike Bibby is great coming off a screen. Last year he didn’t show me much off the dribble. We’ll see what he does this year. Either way, we have to play a faster paced game. Slowing it down is still not to our advantage and never will be with the overall size of our team.

By DAP01

August 24, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

I can only hope but do any of you think that Woody will be creative or increase the pace of our offense?

It’s going to be…walk it up, give it to JJ and let him drain the clock until he passes to our PF camped out on the 3 point line.

By ray

August 24, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

Well everyone knows you have to camp out on the 3 point line to be noticed…..heh…

By Sautee

August 24, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Samuel

Doesn’t it cheapen our Gold Medal to denigrate our opponents as “Euro Punks”?

If that’s what they are, how meaningless has it been to have been shooting fish in a barrel for 3 weeks. Gosh I’m sooooo proud.

By ray

August 24, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Sautee, phone will be ringin’ in a minute…

By darrell starks

August 24, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

GO USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By darrell starks

August 24, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

GO HAWKS

By Mike is back

August 24, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Samuel, I admire your unyielding support of the Hawks, and your optimism for the upcoming season, but despite all the drama and acrimony with RFA this off season, and the new addition to the team, the success of this team is still predicated on maturity of Woody as coach. Sound familiar hmmmmmmmmmmm. Yea I’ve heard all about Woody being dealt a bad hand, but is he the first coach that’s has to deal with adversity? Hardly. Less be real bro, no other coach in the history of the NBA has been granted an extension with a coaching record like Woody.

My biggest concern is Woody admitting that he deliberately went against the advice of his assistant coaches. If he can learn to trust someone other than himself, than there truly is hope for Woody, other than that I expect to see the same old Hawks. They will play nose defense and that same old boring unimaginative offense. I would love to wrong, but it is was it is brooooooo.

By Mike is back

August 24, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Samuel, I admire your unyielding support of the Hawks, and your optimism for the upcoming season, but despite all the drama and acrimony with RFA this off season, and the new addition to the team, the success of this team is still predicated on maturity of Woody as coach. Sound familiar hmmmmmmmmmmm. Yea I’ve heard all about Woody being dealt a bad hand, but is he the first coach that’s has to deal with adversity? Hardly. Less be real bro, no other coach in the history of the NBA has been granted an extension with a coaching record like Woody.

My biggest concern is Woody admitting that he deliberately went against the advice of his assistant coaches. If he can learn to trust someone other than himself, than there truly is hope for Woody, other than that I expect to see the same old Hawks. They will play nose defense and that same old boring unimaginative offense. I would love to wrong, but it is was it is brooooooo.

By ray

August 24, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Mike is back echoes my sentiments.

And yet, I’d love to eat steamed crow on this one. Seriously. We’ll see. Can’t wait for training camp, and the reports thereof….

By travis

August 24, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

observations

as i look towards the opening of training camp, i would like to reflect on some issues from last season and wonder if it will change.

i swear the hawks quit in some games last year. did any of you all see that? some games jj would not show up. i mean there was a 10 games stretch where he was less than 12pts a game.

i don’t understand why woody puts players in the “dog house” when they don’t have good games. let them “find” their grooves.

sekou mention that the front court of m. williams, horford, and smooth will pose “problems” for teams on a nightly basis. i did not “see these problems” last year. some of the sorriest teams handled the hawks.

the hawks have to play better on the road. in november, they only have 6 home games and 9 roads. what if we are 11-4 for november? does the city jump on the bandwagon? will the arena sellout night after night? what if the hawks go 4-11? does woody get fired? do we blog to the end about what should/shouldnt be done.

the mark of insanity is doing the same things over and over, expecting different results…is woody insane? he is still sticking with this half court game and what has it gotten him? a 78-200 career rec. will he change?

By jhan

August 24, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

I agree with travis to some extent. But, Phil Jackson would have a losing record with the players that Woody had the first three years.

Last year showed me that he has a lot to learn because the talent was mediocre. This year is ALL about Woody maturing as a head coach. Barring injuries a .500 record is the minimum for Woody this year. His roster has NBA caliber players at every position (starters & backups). No more excuses.

I believe if they start at 11-4 this city will explode & pack the arena. If they start 4-11 there’s a great chance Larry Drew will be managing the bench. I don’t think Woody has much room for error. Deservedly so in my opinion.

By HB Ando

August 25, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

There’s some inherent incongruity between the Hawks’ extension of Woody’s contract, and the fervent belief, of a specific grouping of members, here, that there is a strong unwillingness of the ownership group to do a quick 180, and pay Woody to go away, in the scenario of a slow start.

Assuming that the 3 teams Samuel mentions, without naming them, as capable of competing for those last 2 playoff slots, come out of four teams, in the Bucks, Nets, Bulls and Heat, I suggest that any or all of those teams could just as easily assume the final playoff slots, rather than Sam’s wholly unsupportable prediction.

A full third of the Hawks roster projects to be made up of journeymen and/or NBA cast-offs.

And I still don’t think Bibby ends the upcoming season as an Atlanta Hawk, due to financial limitations of ownership, which drastically changes any reasonable projection of this teams’ upside.

And as much as I like Horford (as a four), the suggested front line of Al, Smoove, and Marvin, sees the Hawks with a virtually non-existent low-post game, in the half-court.

Hope Woody has boned up on his transition offense, because this teams’ half-court offense couldn’t have more question marks. And their half-court defense will struggle to compete with every team in the league that features a big front line (compounded by the likelihood that Bibby will struggle to stay in front of at least two-thirds of the league’s opposing PG’s).

Steadfastly repeating my prediction that the Hawks will struggle to break the top-ten in the Eastern Conference playoff standings.

By Samuel

August 25, 2008 6:29 AM | Link to this

You hope.

By I.MUS WRITE

August 25, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Dalibor Bagaric……? Dont know if he is the center this team needs,but he cant be any worst than Lo Wright. 7’1 270…..if he has any kinda game he may be able to help us in the post

Training camp is gonna be a battle.

By jhan

August 25, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Ando - which team that you mentioned above doesn’t have a 1/3rd of their team made up of projects & journeymen? Remember 1/3 = 4-5 players.

You make valid points about other teams getting better - but how come they are better by getting draft picks (projects) & signing vets (journeymen) - but the Hawks are worse? Not sure where you are going with that.

I get the feeling Bibby will be here for the entire season. IF the Hawks need payroll relief the best way for that to happen is to keep Bibby & let his contract expire. I’m fairly certain they will have to take back comparable salary or trade him to Memphis (the only team with cap space).

Manny, can you enlighten me?

By Astro Joe

August 25, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

jhan, I think Ando has suggested previously tht we can acquire draft picks in exchange for Bibby. And while that is true, I don’t think that we would get anything close to equal value in draft picks is we trade Bibby. The only type of team that would trade us draft picks for Bibby is a team that is competing for a playoff birth, so at best we’re talking about a 15+ draft pick. Not to mention that it would be difficult to convince a team to give up more than 1 pick for a 2-3 month rental.

Assuming the ownership fiacso gets resolved in February, I could see the owners letting things ride as is until the summer. Only way I see us trading Bibby is if Law/Speedy show definitively that they could get us in the post-season. Or, the team is like 15-30 by the trade deadline and we’re already thinking about the summer draft and free agency.

By Ken Strickland

August 25, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

I can see a few reasons Woodson wouldn’t trust his assistants advice.

(1)He’s been programed by his mentors, BKnight and LBrown, to be a task master and stick to you guns no matter what.

(2)The coaches and the systems he’s played and coached under have been very successful.

(34)His success as a player has been based on the system he is married to both as a collegian and professional. His recognition as a successful assistant coach was under this type of system.

(4)Woodson knew his team was under performing and his only chance to remain as HC was to make the playoffs. He also knew his GM wanted him fired, so he was definitely awaret of being under the gun. If you know your immediate future is predicated on every move you make, wouldn’t you be a bit leary of someone else’s advice or suggestions? That’s would be especially true if that advice or those suggestions are outside your comfort zone and goes against everything you’ve been taught and experienced in the past. I don’t think Woodson is a very trusting person by nature, much like his 2 mentors.

(5)Lets face it, how many of you would put your immediate future, and possibly last chance at that position, in the hands of a coworker, especially if you’re uncomfortable with the advice or suggestions?

I’m not saying he did the right thing or the wisest thing, just stating what his mindset was, and the possible reasons for why he did what he did. This is now a different situation than last yrs and he has to take a different approach. These players are maturing physically, as well as skill wise, and their understanding of the gm and their competition is vastly improving. That means they’re unlikely to be as tolerant of Woodsons dictatorial style of coaching. They will definitely be more resistant to his practice of punishing them if they don’t bow down to his wishes(his DOG HOUSE BS). When players are in or approaching contract yrs, they want a chance to show the league what they can do. They don’t want to appear as malcontents, as Woodson’s childish treatment of certain players might seem to indicate. We’re seeing that kind of resistance in SJones, who I thinks wants out of here so he can get a chance to show what he can do in a contract yr. Can you blame him for wanting to go where he’ll get a chance to prove himself, rather than suffer through another yr of indifference and lack of opportunity under Woodson, especially in a contract yr?

By Samuel

August 25, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Miami Heat Roster

Heat Roster. Some real studs there huh Ando.

2008-09 Roster
NUM PLAYER POS HT WT DOB FROM YRS 6 Blake Ahearn (FA) G 6-2 190 05/27/1984 Missouri State 1 50 Joel Anthony C 6-9 245 08/09/1982 Nevada-Las Vegas 1 5 Marcus Banks G 6-2 212 11/19/1981 Nevada-Las Vegas 5 30 Earl Barron (FA) F-C 7-0 245 08/14/1981 Memphis 3 Michael Beasley F 6-10 235 01/09/1989 Kansas State R 15 Mark Blount C-F 7-0 250 11/30/1975 Pittsburgh 8 Mario Chalmers G 6-1 190 05/19/1986 Kansas R 14 Daequan Cook G 6-5 205 04/28/1987 Ohio State 1 Yakhouba Diawara F-G 6-7 225 08/29/1982 Pepperdine 2 40 Udonis Haslem F 6-8 235 06/09/1980 Florida 5 13 Alexander Johnson F 6-9 230 02/08/1983 Florida State 2 James Jones F 6-8 220 10/04/1980 Miami (Fla.) 5 45 Stephane Lasme F 6-8 215 12/17/1982 Massachusetts 1 7 Shawn Marion F 6-7 230 05/07/1978 UNLV 9 33 Alonzo Mourning (FA) C 6-10 261 02/08/1970 Georgetown 15 12 Kasib Powell (FA) F 6-7 215 03/18/1981 Texas Tech 1 11 Chris Quinn (FA) G 6-2 175 09/27/1983 Notre Dame 2 3 Dwyane Wade G 6-4 216 01/17/1982 Marquette 5 1 Dorell Wright F 6-9 210 12/02/1985 South Kent Prep HS (Lawndale, CA) 4

Bucks

They’re seriously stacked. Tyrone Lue, Damon Jones, Luke Ridnour, Jake Voskuhl. Woooaaahhh!!

11 Joe Alexander F 6-8 230 12/26/1986 West Virginia R 30 Malik Allen F 6-10 255 06/27/1978 Villanova 7 42 Charlie Bell G 6-3 200 03/12/1979 Michigan State 4 6 Andrew Bogut C 7-0 260 11/28/1984 Utah 3 9 Francisco Elson C-F 7-0 235 02/28/1976 California 5 50 Dan Gadzuric C 6-11 245 02/02/1978 UCLA 6 44 Adrian Griffin G-F 6-5 230 07/04/1974 Seton Hall 9 24 Richard Jefferson F 6-7 225 06/21/1980 Arizona 7 Damon Jones G 6-3 195 08/25/1976 Houston 10 10 Tyronn Lue G 6-0 175 05/03/1977 Nebraska 10 12 Luc Mbah a Moute F 6-8 230 09/09/1986 UCLA R 22 Michael Redd G 6-6 215 08/24/1979 Ohio State 8 13 Luke Ridnour G 6-2 175 02/13/1981 Oregon 5 51 Michael Ruffin (FA) F-C 6-8 248 01/21/1977 Tulsa 8 7 Ramon Sessions G 6-3 190 04/11/1986 Nevada-Reno 1 20 Awvee Storey (FA) F-G 6-6 225 04/18/1977 Arizona State 3 31 Charlie Villanueva F 6-11 232 08/24/1984 Connecticut 3 43 Jake Voskuhl (FA)

By ray

August 25, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Dalibor! Dalibor! Dalibor! Dalibor! Dalibor!

Wait….who is that again? What’s that, he’s over 7 feet tall? Well then, right back at it!

Dalibor! Dalibor! Dalibor! Dalibor! Dalibor!

Meanwhile, somewhere in the ATL a man named Samuel is screaming his head off at the prospect of another “Euro” possibly joining the team….

By Ken Strickland

August 25, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

HD ANDO-I have to question you on some of your logic. First, you make the statement about one third of the Hawks being composed of jouneymen players. That statement is slanted to make your point, since virtually every NBA team has a bench in which at least one third is composed of journeymen or 2nd tier players. Heck, the Pistons won an NBA title, and remained a force in the East, with players that could easily fit that classification.

You seem too willing to dismiss certain possibilities when they don’t fit the point you what to make. You refuse to factor in the individual development of our young players as a contributing factor in this yrs overall team improvement. Last yr, we made the playoffs without a definitive inside OFF, nor did we have a consistent outside OFF, expecially off the bench. This yr, we’ve managed to add more OFF potential, especially outside shooting and one on one ability, without sacrificing DEF.

When Philly added a dynamic player like EBrand, they changed the dynamics of their overall OFF. Brand’s addition demand/requires him to receive many more touches. Other starters will have to change their rolls and make adjustments, like take fewer shots and play off of Brand. Now it worked in Boston, but that doesn’t mean it will work in Philly. Adding more talent, especially to a starting lineup, doesn’t automatically lead to a better, or better performing team. Yes, in all likelihood the other teams in the East will be improved, but so will the Hawks. Just because our team improvement will manisfest itself in different ways than the other teams is no less a factor.

A healthy Bibby, an improved Horford, Smith and Marvin, along with the additions of Murray, Evans, Speedy and Morris will make us a better team. Don’t downplay the importance of attitude and confidence as a contributing factor in the improvement of this or any other team. And you were right about Bibby’s DEF, last yr. However, even though his DEF has never been great, he definitely had to be hampered by his foot injury. No player can play effective DEF, or penetrate effectively, with serious foot problems.

You are a very analytical person and you regularily offer some very on point observations. However, you do have a tendency to become rather one dimensional in your approach on occasion. Personally, I enjoy your contrasting approach and observations, even your stinging sarcasm.

By billyBOY!

August 25, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

horford needs to take over the 4spot and move smith to the 3.

Horford worked hard this summer. That boy is a monster PF. Dont stunt his development on offense. He got the bigman coach, dude should be our primary inside scorer for the next decade.

Marvin would be good as our 6th man as he can sub in for Smoove, Horford or the center if we want to go small with a Marvin/Smoove/Horford line for 5-10 minutes.

Marvin is good scorer, let him be the main scorer off the bench for 30 minutes a game as our 6th man.

Horford should put up 16-19 points/10-12 boards along with 2-3 dimes and 1.5-2.5 blocks per game this year as our monster power forward.

He could be the 5th big on the east allstar team. The breakout year is comin for Big Al this year. I bet my life on that…….. especially after his playoff perfromance against KG and what the select team had to say about him.

Boy can score in the lowpost. He got skills, talent and hardwork. Let him do his thing…….. get a center and let him do his thing as our 2nd/3rd scorer along with Smoove behind JJ as our main man/1st scoring option…….. Horford is our primary inside scorer.

I like bibby as the 4th scorer too and hopefully Acie Law gets a Louis Williams-esque role this year off the bench as our backup PG changing the pace up and getting 20 or so minutes a nihgt to Bibby’s 30 or so minutes.

By BA

August 25, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

If rerundo’s “finacial limitations” theory were true, then WHY did they SPEND money on bench players? Are they going to trade them all with Bibby? For who? Shaq?! The Hawks have committed to winning this year. Yeah, they didn’t get a center, but can you honestly say that the team that went to the playoffs last season won’t make it back when they add some outside shooters and hopefully another big (Morris) that could do some damage?

Before the season, write-the-same-posto predicted some kind of firesale, where they blow up the roster and rebuild. To save money. And now, they bring back the same roster (sans one helluva sixth man) with ADDITION players and a HIGHER payroll, and this guy is STILL trying to hammer home the same point? Hard to figure.

I’m sticking with 45 wins, as high as sixth seed. Barring injury. With Woodson. And Bibby. I think the front court will be improved, and Horford will be better WHEREVER he plays. I think Williams will be better, he’s improved every season. Bibby will be more effective coming out of camp from the start, and Joe can be spelled more this season with the presence of legit back-up guards.

By Samuel

August 25, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

Out of the three teams I mentioned who could challenge Atlanta and Toronto for the 7th and 8th spot. Realistically, only Chicago and Milwakee have the talent we have. Chicago has a “rookie” coach and Milwakee has a guy who may or may not fit. Scott Skiles is always a “crapshoot” because of his personality style. Talk about journeyman.

New Jersey lost two of their best three players and while i’m a big Devin Harris fan, it may take them a while to intergrate all the new faces.

Miami will be improved. You can’t get any worse than their season last year. Wade is obviously back but come on. Alonzo, Haslem, Wade, Beasley(they have him listed as 6’10, very funny), Marion,(probably Chalmers, a rookie) at PG, absolutely no bench, and a rookie head coach. That’s three rookies. Come On Ando.

By billyBOY!

August 25, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah: my lineup for this year

C: Morris/Zaza PF: Horford/dude (forget his name, 6-8 bruiser type dude) sf: Smoove/Evans sg: JJ/Murray pg: Bibby/Law

6th man: Marvin

1st scorer: JJ (20-24ppg/6a/6r) 2: Smoove (17-19 ppg/8r/4a/3b) 3: Horford (16-18ppg/10r/2a/2b) 4: marvin (13-16ppg/6r) 5: Bibby (11-13ppg/6a) 6: Law (9-11ppg/4a) 7: Morris (7p/7r/1-2b) 8: Flip (7p/2-3a) 9: Zaza (4p/4r)

By billyBOY!

August 25, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

I dont know.

I think Miami is gonna be very very good with Wade back to normal plus Beasley (best college freshman ever, best /most talented PF to come out of the draft in years) and an allstar and all-defensive team level guy in Marion in a contract year……..

Wade got a huge chip on his shoulder. I will admit it….. that scares the helll outta me. That guy can dominate like few others when he is healthy, and i dont see them missing the playoffs unless he gets hurt.

Espcially not with having Marion and Beasley to run with. Plus I think Chalmers is pretty solid, Banks and him holding down the PG spot should be fine….. and Zo/Blount isnt any worse than say Haywood/Blatche was last year for washington at center. Or Nesterovic/Humphries in Toronto.

James Jones, Chalmers, Haslem, Zo and Daequan Cook make up a pretty solid bench rotation too.

By billyBOY!

August 25, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

my playoff picks

1)Boston 2)Cleveland 3)Philly 4)Orlando 5)Detroit 6)Atlanta 7)Miami 8)Toronto

By richbrave

August 25, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

billieBOY:

You left out the WIZ. No love for ARENAS.?? Or a 34 year-old JAMISON.??

THE REDEEM TEAM takes the best SPAIN can deliver and sends them to defeat. YES-S!!

By billyBOY!

August 25, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

The only way I got love for the Wizards is if they get a lowpost presence on offense.

Like say if Jermaine oneal tears it up for the first 2 months and is back to his old form (he’s only 29 years old) and 100% healthy and then the Raptors have him as a huge trading chip.

Then the Wizards trade Caron Butler and Etan Thomas for him.

If that happened I could see hte Wizards going from 40 win team to 50+ win team.

I could also see the Raptors going to 50+ win team if that trade happened, because all they lack is a primary perimeter scoer that can get to the rim and be one of their top 2 scorers along with Bosh (inside/out duo)… and a serviceable center (minus Jermaine) to bang with the big boys/curry’s and shaqs of the world plus play defense and rebound next to bosh…..

Caron was averaging 22/7/5 on 47% fg’s and 39% 3pointers up until he got injured…… he was breaking out as a legit number 1 option and franchise perimter player at only 27 years old.

The Wizards already HAVE the franchise perimeter player and number 1 option in Arenas though and they just made a huge investment in him……. two “leadin men” dont work together in my opinion………

Imaginge those lineups assuming Jermaine is back to 22 points/10 boards a night with 3 dimes and 2 blocks (all-defense level on the inside anchoring their defense with Haywood??!?!) and healthy again?

That would be Gilbert/Jermaine/Jamison with a sick supporting cast…… and Bosh/Caron/Calderon with a sick supporting cast….. that could contend with a years older KG/Pierce/Allen with a sick supporting cast……. just as Lebron/Williams/Big Z with a nice supporting cast and the boys in Orlando (Howard/Lewis/Turkoglu/Pietrus/Nelson with good bench) and the boys in Philly (Dalembert/Brand/Iguodala/Rush/Miller) with a good bench…….. and of course Detroit, especially if Stuckey breaks out………

then it drops off to the fight for the 8 seed between us and Miami and Chicago and Milwaukee…….

Those two teams after that switch would be ready to contend with Boston Cleveland Philly and Orlando for the east crown.

By billyBOY!

August 25, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

I know I left out Detroit……… but I dont see them as legit contenders for anything more than the 2nd round unless they make a bigtime trade for a superstar plaayer…….. something like Sheed and Billups and Prince on the way out for a superstar like Melo and Nene (with his bad contract).

Imagine if both trades happened? AND we get a solid defensive center with Horford breaking out as a near 20/10 lowpost option for us as he will?? AND Miami fightin bigtime if they pick up a serviceable 20-25 mpg defensive center to team up with Blount til Zo gets back and Wade stays healthy and Marion plays contract-year ball with Beasley doing his ROY thing at the 4-spot?

Beautiful thing…….. the East will be stacked…… and the West already is……. nice

By MannyT

August 25, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

I am still riding the Olympic excitement. Larry Bird cannot ditch Tinsley because the GMs are either on vacation or were at the Olympics. I’m not really thinking Hawks until mid-September. Gotta get the fantasy football draft prep done.

All this to say I have little new stuff to add at the moment. However, I can answer jhan’s question.

You have to be within 125% and 100k of a salary for a trade. According to Hoopshype, Bibby will make $15.225 mil this season. So we will need to take back 12.1 mil ( x 1.25 + 100k = 15.225) in salary unless we can get a trade exception that allows us to take back less salary. (Can we say menage a trois trade;-)

Citius, Altius, Fortius

By HB Ando

August 26, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

I’m not energized enough to split hairs, but there’s a tangible difference between most NBA teams having slots 10-15 made up of players who either represent future upside or a solid history of changing teams on a regular basis (think Mikki Moore), and a team who’s 10-15 slots are made up of cast offs and question marks.

Seems like me and billyboy see the Heat in a similar light. If you watched the Olympics, then you should have noticed that Wade is back (his first ten games back from the IR, last year, he didn’t dunk once). He’s better than JJ. And Marion is better than any front court player we have. And Beasley will be an immediate star.

But, in an effort to neither digress, or get stuck in an argument that can’t be won, only time will tell as it relates to the differing opinions of how the Hawks will perform.

I see a roster that has added no quality players in the off season, while losing a versatile sixth man. I see an Eastern Conference where most of the teams that project to battle the Hawks for the bottom tier playoff slots have made tangible changes in either their rosters, their head coach, or both. I still won’t believe it until I see it, that Bibby plays the full season in Atlanta.

Ken, I don’t discount the expected improvement of Atlanta’s young players. I just believe that the make up of the roster continues to force both Horford and Smith to play out of their optimal positions. I see a defense which will continue to struggle against teams with legitimate centers, compounded by the concurrent limitations of Bibby, defensively.

If I sound like a broken record, it might be because nothing but the loss of Childress has changed, with this roster, from last years’ team.

Most everyone here b*** all of last season, about Woodson’s stubborn limitations and weaknesses as a coach. Yet many of those same folks seem to be in denial about the implications his staying will have on this team.

It’s somewhat astounding how hard some of you have to work to rationalize your optimism.

I’m not saying this team is horrible. I’m saying it still has fatal flaws, on the court and on the bench (and with its ownership situation). And I’m saying that most of the other mediocre teams, in the East, got better this summer.

You don’t have to believe me or agree. But, just like last year, and the year before that, all the optimists seem to fade away as reality sets in.

So, if they’re better than I predict, I WILL be here at season’s end, admitting I was wrong. But I doubt any of you, who disagree with my concerns, will man up, if I’m right, and do the same, next spring.

The Hawks have no bench. Woody will continue to overplay his starters, because he has no other means to stay competitive. As a result, the likelihood is one of our primary cogs will catch a major injury, at some point, with no one on the bench even close to good enough to replace their production. When it happens, folks will use the injury as an excuse, even though every team in the league deals with the loss of impact players. At that point, the team will go on a protracted losing streak. The ASG will then look to cut their losses, from a payroll standpoint, and trade Bibby.

We’ll battle for the 8th seed, which is the upside this team was built for (and which I cautioned against as far back as ‘05), and end up falling a few games short.

Still willing to take wagers on that prediction…………

By HB Ando

August 26, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Ken, to further respond to your earlier post: who here doesn’t use their subjective analysis to support their logic or opinion?

The idea that I’m unwilling to appreciate this team, based on some rigid form of perpetual negativity, ignores my perception, shared by many locally and nationally (and using “my perception” rather than the phrase “the reality that”, as an acknowledgment that we’re all dealing with varying opinions, rather than inherent truth here), that this is a poorly run, under funded, franchise, with a roster that continues to lack some very essential pieces, as well as the compounding issue of Woody’s legitimacy as a playoff-quality coach.

If I’m guilty of anything, it is my unwillingness to allow the Hawks perpetual status as one of the weakest franchises in the NBA to gradually wear me down to a point of embracing mediocrity.

There’s simply no good excuse for the Hawks to be considered one of the worst franchises in the NBA.

There’s simply no good excuse for the Hawks to be the constant butt of the joke, for the national NBA media coverage.

Some of you have gradually confused optimism with denial and the perpetual generation of pain-reducing excuses.

4 years ago the Hawks and the Trailblazers were both floundering. I know that having Paul Allen as an owner is a huge differentiator, but the truth is that they didn’t throw money at their problems. They moved Randolph, and got the league to help them write off Miles. And they used the draft to acquire a deep pool of emerging, legitimate players. Even without Oden, they played .500 ball in the far stronger West. They drafted Roy when we drafted Shelden. They traded the rights to Ty Thomas, a big bust, to get Aldridge, the one player I pointed to, starting almost a year before his draft, as the player the Hawks needed to find a way to draft.

The Blazers didn’t spend their way to a rapid rebuilding. They have made move after savvy move to launch themselves into pertinence.

There’s just us and the Grizzlies, defining how not to run an NBA team.

Jhan and doc have watched me cheer on the Hawks, from Jeff’s awesome seats. They know how badly I want to see the Hawks succeed. I just don’t believe that the commitment and the necessary pieces, both from a roster balance standpoint, as well as a coaching perspective, are in place to win.

And I won’t believe the ASG will spend $65 million on payroll, this year, until the fat lady sings.

Not gonna happen……

By Ken Strickland

August 26, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this

ANDO-good points. However, the one point you made that stands out the most for me was, “ONLY TIME WILL TELL AS IT RELATES TO THE DIFFERING OPINIONS OF HOW THE HAWKS WILL PERFORM”. I couldn’t agree with you more. In fact, nothing we say or feel will change that fact.

Right now, there’s very little actual basketball activity for any of us to discuss. So, we are now focusing on each other more than normal. I really like the fact we’re now discussing which playoff slot we’ll be competing for this season. In the past, we were relegated to predicting whether we will improve on the previous yrs total.

No matter what our opinions are about the prospects for this yrs team, it will certainly be an exciting and entertaining journey. THAT ALONE IS AN IMPROVEMENT.

By Ken Strickland

August 26, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this

ANDO-good points. However, the one point you made that stands out the most for me was, “ONLY TIME WILL TELL AS IT RELATES TO THE DIFFERING OPINIONS OF HOW THE HAWKS WILL PERFORM”. I couldn’t agree with you more. In fact, nothing we say or feel will change that fact.

Right now, there’s very little actual basketball activity for any of us to discuss. So, we are now focusing on each other more than normal. I really like the fact we’re now discussing which playoff slot we’ll be competing for this season. In the past, we were relegated to predicting whether we will improve on the previous yrs total.

No matter what our opinions are about the prospects for this yrs team, it will certainly be an exciting and entertaining journey. THAT ALONE IS AN IMPROVEMENT.

By Samuel

August 26, 2008 6:39 AM | Link to this

Marion better than any of our front court players. How so? I’d just as soon have either Horford or Josh as Marion. He (Marion) is a good player but much of his success is a product of the PHX system. Also, how many teams in the East upgraded their coach. Miami (Rookie), Chicago (Rookie), Detriot (Rookie). How are those upgrades?

You mention Wade, Marion and Beasley but fail to mention the other 5 or 6 that it takes to be competitive.

By Macaroni Tony

August 26, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this

I’m not saying that our team ( the Hawks) will win this years championship, but Detriot did win the 2004 championship with journeyman. Even though Chauncey Billups played consistant in Detriot, but he was traded four times before he got to Detriot. It was like he didn’t fit in with other teams and then he was traded. When he got to Detriot he didn’t want to be traded again so he played like he wanted to win. Rasheed Wallace was not so much as a journeyman but when he left the Trailblazers he just wanted to play for anyone (our Hawks) because of his bitter-sweet divorce. Ben Wallace was player that out of position, he had his best year in 2004, and he out-dueled Shaq. Ben Wallace was a true journeyman, and he still is. T. Prince was a young skinny kid that played great defense on Kobe. Okur did ok in the finals also. Lindsey Hunter played for the Pistons then he was moved around three times before getting back to Detriot.

I think that we should have a good team if they’re coached right. We are nolonger the youngest team. Woody did get his wish with experience and veteran players. We didn’t have any draft picks in this years draft, but I think that the additions that we had to choose from. We do have some journeymen on our team, but I’m still behind our team, because I do think that we’ll surprise some teams this year. I am happy that we have a starting PG, and not a back-up PG. I’ll love for a healthy Bibby and JJ to lead this team. We haven’t that kind of situation in some years (a starting back-court). A stronger JS, A wiser AH, and a new big in R. Morris could round out our starting five. Go Hawks…

By HB Ando

August 26, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Miami and Chicago also changed head coaches. And the idea that Marion isn’t better than either Josh or Horford, at this stage in their careers, is a pretty strong reach, given that his scoring has always been his least significant contribution, as the third option there. But what about their system makes him a top-five rebounder, annually, as well as one of the only players in the league (if not the only) to consistently post 2 steals a block and a half a game (career averages of 10 boards, 1.9 steals and 1.3 blocks, despite being all of 6’6, making him the best “small rebounder” since Barkley)? He’s one of the most versatile defenders in the NBA. Another huge factor you ignore, which I will repeat, as a result, is that D. Wade is healthy, and now back to superstar level. Haslem is very solid. And Marcus Banks or Quinn, who put up great numbers late last season, could emerge as legitimate PG’s, playing off of Wade. And Beasley could literally enter the league as a 20-10 guy, if healthy. Also, unlike the Hawks, who don’t typically go out and get the help they need, mid-season (with the Bibby deal a rare exception, highlighted by the fact that Sac was dying to dump his remaining $30 million contract, since his $500K/year back up was just as good as he is). Riley will make a deal to compete.

If Rose’s impact on the Bulls is consistent with his first overall pick status, and near what Paul brought to a far less talented roster, in NO, than what Chicago has, it’s hard not to believe that last years’ hugely unexpected flop will be anything other than an anomaly. Don’t the Bulls get the same projection of “organic” development, from their young players, Deng, Noah and Thomas? And what will they end up getting in exchange for Gordon, should he be moved. Larry Hughes makes them a much better defensive team. And getting rid of Wallace, who signing was a huge mistake, and who was clearly a cancer in the locker room, will benefit them as well.

Pointing to Detroit is pointless. They’re not a team we’ll be competing with next year. I made it clear I was talking about teams that would likely compete with us for one of the last playoff slots. But I will say that the emergence of Stuckey and Maxiell is just as viable an counter to the “organic” improvement of our young players.

And the success of Detroit, at their best, with a limited bench, was most defined by the near perfect balance of their roster, which continues to be one of the Hawks greatest weaknesses. Wallace’s defense and rebounding allowed ‘Sheed to get away with his perpetually lazy board efforts, while Big Ben’s offensive limitations created ‘Sheed’s clear ownership of the low block on offense. And Billups, Rip and Prince are simply 3 of the smartest ball players in the league (can you say that about anyone on the Hawks, save, maybe, JJ?).

Argue all you want, but only the season will answer it. I believe Chicago, Miami and Milwaukee will all end up better than the Hawks this season. Throw in Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, Orlando, Toronto and Philly, and that’s at least 9 teams I project to have better records than the Hawks. And with D’Antoni is NY, and the unlimited financial resources of those idiot Dolan’s, counting NY out would be premature. I even think NJ will be better than most expect.

We’re lottery bound. Again.

But we should be fun and exciting to watch. We’re just not going to win more games than we lose.

By doc

August 26, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

pretty much ditto, can everyone continue to overlook the pacers? i see them in the mix as well. we are not a shoe in at 8th spot, in fact we will hold onto it by a thread if at all. lottery unless they really show something in preseason and the first few games that i have missed.

there are some possibilities within the mix of players we have but they are a reach with the old system. maybe “pressure” defense will carry the day. unfortunately, the same probs will be seen again as folks exploit our size and soft under belly in the paint.

By Macaroni Tony

August 26, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

I don’t post alot but I’m always on this blog reading. Ando I do know that you know alot about sports, but I don’t agree with everything that you post. The Hawks will be better than the Bulls, Bucks, and the Heat. The Heat won like 15 games so do you think that they’re going to will 30 more games this year even with a healthy Wade? (No!!!) So now the Bucks have picked up a career back-up in Lue, Damon Jones can be good, but he didn’t help LJ enough. Now RJ is good but who is to say that he want play bitter the entire season. If we put MW on the bench and play JS and AH along with RM then I would say that we would have a better and more solid team. With Evans, MW, FM coming off the bench then that would give us a more solid bench, that is something the we have never had. It’s so funny that we can’t compare the journeymen of Detriot to our Hawks. AH had more double-double then any other rookie, and he played out of position most of the season. JS had more blocks then any small-foward/power-foward. We’re a wiser team with playoff experience. I think that we’re going to be pretty solid.

By kirknga

August 26, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

RIP Kevin Duckworth.

Good player, nice guy.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 26, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Damn this blog has gotten a lot slower in the last couple of weeks… We need the season to start.

By Ken Strickland

August 26, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

These discussions are becoming rather exciting to me. The Hawks could very well end up in the lottery again, as ANDO has predicted. Or, we could end up making the playoffs as a 6 or 7 seed. We have the ability to do both. The “X” factor in this equation will be the performance of HC MWoodson. If he coaches like he did last yr, I have to go along with ANDO. If he finally gets his head out of his anus, we should achieve the 2nd option.

Either way, we have to take a wait and see approach. None of our predictions will mean a thing, until that “X” factor is realized. Either way, this should be an exciting season for all Hawks fans. We should suffer fewer blowouts and fewer lost leads, especially large ones. With more OFf firepower and one on one capability orr the bench, we should be better able to overcome and maintain leads. Again, it’s all predicated on the “X” factor.

I’m actually excited about the Hawks and the Falcons. I think both teams will be entertaining and successful. OTHERWISE, I’M GOING TO NEED SOME TLC. NOW WHERE DID I PUT BEYONCE AND GABRIAL’S PHONE NUMBERS?

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 26, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

I think if you are gonna look at the improvement of Eastern Conference teams for the upcoming season, you have to take into account that the Hawks’ core players are younger and have greater upside than the core players on Miami, Milwaukee, etc. Maybe we make the playoffs, maybe we don’t, but it’s inaccurate to say the team will not be improved at all just because they didn’t go out and make a big free agent signing.

By Macaroni Tony

August 26, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

What poistion does Udonis Haslem play?

By doc

August 26, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

no najeh, they were the ONLY team to let a significant player go, right? that is the part of the equation that has everyone in a quandry. that is the factor that means we cant be too sure of what we have. the others in front of us didnt do anything to move back some like the sixers and raptors have made huge gains, so where does it really leave us? i still say we are in a scrap for the 8 spot and no more. if they had managed therir game a bit better we could realistically say we could argue to move up, but we were the only team that has faltered in the top 8,no? players and coach are going to have to elevate their games otherwise lottery.

maybe a team like portland with a player or two to dump along with a young stud and draft pick will need bibby, that might be the best scenario for dropping bibby if we falter. houston may be the type team that needs his services as well. there will be the opportunity just like there was for sac to drop him. could be texiera like.

By Macaroni Tony

August 26, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

Why want we give a Bibby a chance to improve our team. I hope that we don’t trade Bibby. I’m excited that we have a mature front-court to start the season, and we have a bench that could step in an our lead wouldn’t just run away….

By doc

August 26, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

mac it is plan be. i hope he can deliver but he is paid to perform as two people, a point gad like we have never seen around these parts and a gunner to keep the hounds off of jj or at least honest. that is a huge responsibility and if he delivers cool. if he doesnt then move him for something if at all possible is all i am saying.

By Sautee

August 26, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

doc

i still say we are in a scrap for the 8 spot and no more.

Yeah, I mostly agree. Like I told you earlier, the teams in spots 7-12 are fairly interchangeable, with too many variables to tell at this point. I just hope we’re as lucky as last year regarding how few injuries we had. If so, we have a shot at 7 or 8. If not, <500%. And that won’t make the playoffs this season.

By Samuel

August 26, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

The ledgend of Afro Man is getting bigger by the minute. Pretty soon he’ll be put in the class of MJ. Come on the guy was the freekin 6th man on a 37 win team.

Ando, nobody is saying the Hawks are a lock to do anything. All i’m saying is that we are just as good if not better than many teams in the East. You keep saying that we’re at the worst but 7 teams didn’t make the playoffs last year. How are they in better shape than us?

There are usually three tiers of teams each year.

The favorites: Boston and Detroit

The Challengers: Cleveland, Washington, Philly

Those fighting for the final playoff spots:

Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, Toronto, Milwakee

The bottom of the barrell

some say Jersey and Indy. I don’t. Basically the tiers dont change very much. Unless there is a major injury or major personnell move. I certainly can’t see any team who has made such a drastic roster move to put them into another tier. Possibly Philly but nobody else.

Of course, Lebron can always get on a roll and carry Cleveland into the favorites tier. Detriot could fall into tier two if they decide to shake things up.

You’re the only one here who has said for a certainty that The Hawks will not make the playoffs and that is as you say a serious reach, since our roster stacks up rather favorably to any of the teams fighting for the last two spots.

By Samuel

August 26, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

Mac,

Doc and Ray just like riding a certain blogger’s jock. He came up with that Bullsht about moving Bibby. Why in the hel would you move a man who was the primary difference maker in putting you in the playoffs for the first time in a decade. No logical reason other than: Ando said so.

By jhan

August 26, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Several teams in the East made changes. Nobody knows if those “changes” are “improvements” or not. Just because they changed their teams doesn’t mean they improved them.

Our biggest weakness (in my opinion) last season was the lack of quality bench players. We added two starters from other teams last year to play on our bench. The summer league MVP is now healthy and on our bench. We’ve added a legit big man (in size only right now) to our bench.

I have to believe the Mikki Moore’s & Brendan Haywoods will not walk all over Morris & ZaZa this season. Both of our guys have LOTS to prove this year. Last year we had to keep an overworked Horford out on the floor without rest.

Once again there is a similar theme - this whole season boils down to Woody. If he can learn to utilize his players & not overwork the starters we will make the playoffs. In my mind it is as simple as that.

Of course injuries will play a major role for ALL teams looking to make the playoffs. If Brand, Jefferson, O’neal or any players of this ilk go down then their teams will suffer. The same goes for the Hawks.

I honestly believe our overall talent level is better than last year (even with the loss of JC). We still have not addressed the Center position & that could come back to haunt this team. Hopefully not addressing the HC position will not come back to haunt us as well.

By Macaroni Tony

August 26, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

Thank you,

Samuel

That is the samething that I was thinking. We always complain about not getting experienced players, and now that we have a PG why in the word would we want to trade him; I’m confused about that. I think that we have a good team, just because we lost our sixth man don’t mean we dropped off the map. Don’t get me wrong JC is a good player, but he want make or break this team.

By Ken Strickland

August 26, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Lets look at our potential bench. G-Acie-Murray-Speedy, SF-Evams. PF-Hunter or Solomon, C-Zaza-Morris. With this bench, Woodson can’t complain about not having any quality vets. This is where the Hawks will realize their biggest improvement. We won 37 gms without consistent outside shooting, inside OFF. We also had inconsistent contributions from our bench, other than Chills, but that was due in part because of Woodson. This yr, we definitely have the bench depth and talent to become a much better overall team than last yrs.

Yes, other Eastern teams will be improveed, but so will we. Last yrs opening roster represented a 50% turnover from the previous yr. Then we turned the roster over again at the trade deadline. At this point, we have 2 new starters(Horford and Bibby) that weren’t on last yrs team. This yr, we’ll return the same starting lineup. The progression of Horford, Smith, Marvin, Acie, and presence of a healthy Bibby and Speedy, will be definite improvements. Add Morris, Murray, Evans and Hunter/Solomon to the mix, and we won’t be anybody’s pushover.

ANDO=I agree that there will be times when we’ll get hurt by teams with dominant centers. But, how many teams actually fall into that category, especially in the east. If Woodson allows us to run consistently, that won’t be as much of a problem as it was last yr. Having strong DEF guard play from Acie, Speedy, Murray and Evans, and applying consistent pressure on the ball, will definitely help our BIGS.

I believe we have enough talent, and enough intangibles to add 5-7 additional wins to last yrs total.

By richbrave

August 26, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

SAMUEL:

Good enough for me - ANDO said so. After seeing BIBBY in the playoffs, I had no problem seeing HB’s point regarding the starting PG both on and off($$$$) the court.

WOODSON just doesn’t run the sets in which MIKE is most effective. But maybe the WOODEN-one will actually adapt to the talent he has this season. Here’s hoping anyway.

By BA

August 26, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

Nice post, Strickland (9:54). How many dominant centers ARE there in the league?

Woodson and Johnson wanted vets. Well, here they are: Evans, Murray, and hopefully Claxton. The whole “weak frontcourt” theory is hard for me to figure, when we had the second-leading shotblocker in the league and a “center” that was so overmatched, he went out and averaged double-digit boards in his rookie season. And they’re only going to get better. I strongly question whether Josh Smith is playing “out of position” anyway.

Samuel, I think you’d be doing a disservice to lump in doc and Ray as ando followers. I think those guys, after years of bad ownership/management, are equally pessimistic, but doc and Ray fall far short of ando’s bizarre firesale conspiracy theories.

There’s pessimistic, and then there’s nonsensical. Like the trade Bibby B.S.

Hey, it’s better than the Chris Paul hand-wringing!

By doc

August 27, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

thanks ba, exactly. many including samuel know ando and i have argued as much as we have agreed. i tend to sing my own song for my own reasons. you will have to ask samuel why he uses such tactics or refuses to see the obvious, most see through it.

i tend to think of myself in pragmatic or analytical terms rather than a pessimist. folks that tend to disagree want to put me into the latter, just as you have. that is okay since i tend to think of folks declaring 45 wins (really greater than 41 in my book) or more into the pipe or kool aide. so, i guess it is similar, folks seeing the same thing but expressing it differently. so far i have nailed it on my expectations the last three seasons and have been on record. even if i am wrong i can say .750, aint bad.

it is all good.

go hawks!

By ant banks

August 27, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

As of 8/27/08, there have been 143 postings: 42 references to J-Chills (who was traded 5 weeks ago.), 88 references to Mike Woodson suck!, 78 references about JSmooth and his resigning with the Hawks 33 postings about Bibby or the starting line up.

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A NEW BLOG SEKOU?

THIS ONE IS DONE-DONE!!

By Ken Strickland

August 27, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

ANT BANDS-even with a new blog, I’ll bet you’ll end up with a simular count on simular topics of discussion. It’s just that time of yr for us BBall fanatics. You know, getting close to the start of camp, BUT JUST NOT CLOSE ENOUGH, DAMIT. So, do complain, just relax and enjoy the ride(comments).

PS, if you want excitement, or something different, as well as a chance to experience the underbelly of civilized society, visit the Falcons blogs.

By terrell barron

August 27, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

BREAKIN NEWS: Monte Ellis out 6 months with severe high ankle sprain. WOW!

By terrell barron

August 27, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

BREAKIN NEWS: Monte Ellis out 6 months with severe high ankle sprain. WOW! Surgery required.

By doc

August 27, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

ant you can now say “underbelly” used twice on this blog in your count.

By ant banks

August 27, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

terrell any news on monte ellis? Just wondering how he is doing. Thanks doc I will add that to my tally!!

I just want a new blog or some new info, like what’s going on with speedy.

Why is salim and richardson still listed on the roster. I thought that 15 was the number, not 17

By Samuel

August 27, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 27, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Most of the Internet sources I’m seeing say Ellis is out for three months, not six, but still… three months for a sprain? He didn’t even tear anything and he misses that much time? Weird…

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 27, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

I probably disagree at least as often with Ando as I agree with him (at the very least my outlook is a lot more positive) but I don’t see what’s so nonsensical about the suggestion that Bibby should be traded. The Hawks are probably not gonna keep him beyond this season unless he takes a pay cut of nearly 50% from his current salary, because let’s face it, when you are planning on paying eight figure salaries to your core three players it wouldn’t be wise to also pay eight figures to a point guard who is declining. Keeping that in mind as well as the fact that the Hawks are still in need of some depth and that Acie Law needs playing time, why wouldn’t you want to trade Bibby’s expiring contract if you can address those other issues?

The only difference here is, unlike Ando who suggests the Bibby trade because of the lack of confidence in the DASG (can’t blame him there), I think it would be a good move because I’m a big believer in Acie Law. The Celtics just won a championship with their previously unproven 2nd year point guard starting pretty much the whole year — granted we’re not the Celtics, but I still don’t think it would hurt to let Acie run the show at some point in the season.

By ant banks

August 27, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Poop you mention rajon, also remember tony parker? he was dogged out by everyone his 1st yr in the league, but he is one of the better points in the league, now. i think that ac would prove to be the same way if woody would let him learn from his mistakes. ac was deadly at a&m for 4 yrs, dude ain’t forgot how to ball.

also, if the hawks trade bibby, want they have to take back the same salary, which would still have us on the hook for 14mil next year?

By terrell barron

August 27, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

I think a high ankle sprain is more than just a simple sprain Najeh. Doc? They lose the Bearded one, and now Monte. Wow! So who’s the starting 5 out there now? Marcus Williams, Jax, Corey Maggette, Randolph or Wright, and Beidrens. No way they make the Playoffs out West.

By doc

August 27, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

gee, could golden state be in a need for a point guard …. how bad? not a likely scenario now but one that is plausible if the season goes sour for bibby is all i am suggesting. maybe the warriors could use a speedy type right now if recovered and shows it in the preseason. come on, face it, someone else’s misery becomes our fantasy. bibby’s ultimate and biggest value could be in helping our coach see the light or in his leadership of young players in spite of his defensive liability. not saying bibby doesnt have worth and never have. now let us get speedy traded for a big.

najeh, a sprain is worse than a break, takes longer to heal and are unstable for a while afterwards. blood supply to ligaments is minimal and a high ankle sprain is notorious for the time it takes to heal and ultimately rehab. a sprain can also affect balance, too. i think that injury is what was limited a young quarterback for the falcons’ comeback a few years ago and that led to reeves demise, no? i think he fractured the ankle and had the sprain associated with it. so bottom line something torn is worse than broken in many cases and a sprain is a tear of a ligament away from bone(s) or a disruption of its own fibers with the ends left on bone. a complete sprain or tear like an acl for example is devastating.

By BA

August 27, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

If Acie Law turns out to be Tony Parker, then obviously trading Bibby would make sense. IF Claxton is healthy enough to back up. But considering that we wouldn’t have been in the playoffs without Bibby, and the fact that the (pick the latest greatest acronym- asg, basg, dasg, etc.) matched Smith’s offer sheet, AND signed some vets, to me that says “win now”. And unless ‘09 tanks early, there’s no way they move the starting point guard. Too many question marks behind him.

But hey, what do I know, I’m the crackhead that thinks last year’s playoff team, with four or five new players ADDED, will improve by eight wins. WAY out in left field!

By Ken Strickland

August 27, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

I can’t argue with ANDO about trading Bibby by the trade deadline because I made the same prediction a while back. I love what Bibby provided last yr and I believe he’ll provide even more this yr. However, we need to look to the future. Paying the kind of money keeping Bibby would require could impact our ability to retain our core players. Bibby provides outside shooting and experience, but little else, especially on DEF. I don’t believe Acie will ever be the shooter Bibby is, but he can provide everything else, and then some. Acie’s speed, quickness and penetrating ability will create easy scoring opportunities for others.

Age and injury have relegated Bibby to being a shooting PG that lacks the speed and quickness to consistently create easy scoring opportunities for others. Remember, Bibby’s arrival caused a 9pt increase in our scoring avg. His poor DEF also caused a 9pt increase in pts allowed. Acie, as a starter with sufficient mins, would definitely reduce that points allowed figure. His ability to breakdown DEF’s would definitely have a positive impact on our overall OFF production. Trading Bibby and promoting Acie would present us with our starting lineup of the futue.

LET THE SEASON BEGIN.

By terrell barron

August 27, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Thanks Doc. And Doc they’ve got Marcus Williams and CJ Watson. lol!! Maybe they’ll take Craig off of our hands. They could definately use him on the DEFENSIVE END. Speedy for Croshere or Azubuike, straight up. Or Speedy and Zaza for Turiaf. lol!

By Samuel

August 27, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

You can talk all you want about how slow Bibby is and his defensive liabilities but I don’t think Woody, My Boy Rick or the spirit are buying it.

The Future has been the last ten years and we’ve never gotten there. The future is now and right now, Mike Bibby gives us the best chance of winning ballgames. That’s all I care about. To hel_ with Upside, long term or the like.

You financial gurus still haven’t answered the question of taking back salary. Do we or don’t we. If we do, then it makes no sense to trade one of your best players.

By Macaroni Tony

August 27, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

I do feel that A.Law time will come and maybe it will come sometime this year, but why want we give a healthy Bibby the nod for the start of the season. WE haven’t had three PGs that could lead this team in quite sometime. Bibby and another scorer will force teams to play JJ one on one and not double teams. Most players can’t play a healthy JJ one on one. We won 37 games last year but of course we should have won alot more. It was not until Bibby came that we had our chance to get unto the playoffs. I think that we will win 49 games this year.

By richbrave

August 27, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

I’m thinkin’ the WIZARDS are running in place and falling behind. To me their two of BUTLER and JAMISON are like HORFORD and SMITH, only the HAWKS are much younger. Edge to ATLANTA for the eighth and final spot.

Oh, BTW, ANDRAY BLATCHE says he’ll be for real this season, and intends to prove it inside. He’s added fifteen pounds and is up around 250 now so maybe he can bang a little there. I still say THOMAS will be a man if he can stand that pounding on his chest. Those wires hurt like h—- when you mash on them. Nobody else inside with any experience to help out HEYWOOD except SONGAILA. Too small to be consistantly effective in there. Rookies and first year guys too green, not enough talent. Eighth or Ninth.

By billyBOY!

August 27, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

How could anyone in their right mind say that Josh Smith is worth more than Iguodala? Or better yet, a better player than Iguodala???

HHAHAHAHAA!

Iguodala should be averaging 20ppg on 46% shooting plus 6 assists and 6 boards at the 2guard position and be a lockdown defender for the next 10 years. He could realistically be the number 1 perimeter scorer and playmaker on the wing and DPOY candidate for a contending team. He is that good, that talented, that young, that hardworking, that ETC…..

Iguodala is a monster at his position. 23/6/6 on great percentages with DPOY level man-to-man lockdown defense. He’ll be an allstar for YEARS.

Josh Smith is a tweener. He is a great talent and borderline allstar for the next decade, a great 3rd or 4th offensive option and a great weakside defender….. but he has ALOT to improve on (Bball iq, attitude, shot selection, shooting, dribbling, floor vision, get a position down: if its PF than get a post-up game and if its SF than improve your shot and your lateral quickness to guard other SF’s)

He is a very good help defender, not a great man-up defender. He is a great shotblocker. He is a solid scorer but in no way should be a 2nd option, and he’s undersized at the 4 and really hurting us by taking up Horfords position when Horford should be our 20/10 allstar PF and lowpost presence on offense for the next decade.

Horford should be our primary inside scoring option. JJ and Horford is the inside/out duo. If Josh Smith could get down a 3point shot and guard SF’s he would be perfect to complement them. So DO IT Josh!!!!

By billyBOY!

August 27, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

The Wizards are dumb as hell for not getting a lowpost presence by now.

Jamison aint the answer. They need a Jermaine Oneal (a back to form and healthy version)

Caron Butler was averaging 22.4points/7.2boards/4.8dimes per game on 48% fg’s and 39% 3pointers with a 23.9 PER. He broke out leading that Arenas-less team to 8 games over .500 up until he got injured.

He broke out as a legit number 1 man on the perimeter, a legit superstar and all-nba level performer at only 27 years old.

Caron is a beast…… but they just invested in Gilbert as their main man on the perimeter. So Caron looks to be on the way out, Jamison at SF is good to go and so is Haywood at center and Deshawn as their starting 2guard and number1 defender. They have a good bench too and depth (shootesrs, defenders, size, etc)

I think theyll trade Caron and Etan Thomas to Toronto for Jermaine Oneal if he proves to be back in form after the first 2 months…….

Toronto already has an allstar power forward and number 1 inside man. So why do they want another one?…… because they KNOW he’s not done and didnt want to be in indiana, so they get him to a winning team where he will be a GREAT GREAT GREAT chip for them to trade for what they need (a number 1 man on the perimeter and a serviceable hardworker at center).

Etan Bosh Caron Parker Calderon

with a good bench

and

Haywood J Oneal Jamison Stevenson Arenas

with a good bench

Expect to see Jermaine back in form and healthy putting up 20 and 10 on a regular basis to go with his 2 blocks and great inside defense for the first 2 or so months…… and expect Caron and Etan to be on the way to Toronto in exchange for jermaine. Both teams get what htey need and immediately become legit contenders in the East.

By terrell barron

August 27, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

Have’nt been here for a while, so this has probably already been posted. But here it goes.http://www.hoopsworld.com-Atlanta Hawks…The Grade So Far—

By HB Ando

August 27, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

Sam, actually, I did address the salary take back issue, supported by a man who likes nothing more than disagreeing with me, in Astro Joe. Future draft picks are assigned cap value, and can be taken in trade, in matching salaries. And just because we could get picks for Bibby doesn’t mean we have to keep them (for those of you who want to minimize this idea by arguing that we don’t want to get any younger). I have noted, many times, that our track record for asset management, over the last four years, is abysmal.

Again, if you go back and sum up the net transactions, we have JJ and the expiring contract of Bibby for 4 first rounders, Lue, A. Johnson and Wright. Teams like the Hawks, desperately short on depth, can ill afford such a massive imbalance of assets, given the fact that they aren’t that competitive to begin with.

As is the norm here, many folks respond to my posts, but they almost always, conveniently, ignore the major points, lacking any viable retort. Where’s the comeback to my suggestion that it’s virtually impossible for this underfunded ownership group to keep together the core of JJ, Smith, Bibby, Horford and Marvin, given that 3 of them are now $10+ million/year players, and the other two (Horford and Marvin) will likely command aggregate extensions, with a net annual average in that same range. Does anyone really believe that the Hawks are going to fund, in the coming years, a starting five that collectively makes over $50 million a year?

Please.

Other than the Knicks, no team in the league commits that kind of money to more than 3 players. So, the obvious question is: which two, of those five, are most likely to go, in pursuit of better money. And the obvious answer is Bibby, who certainly won’ take a “home team discount” to play for one of the most dysfunctional franchises in the league, especially given that he’s likely looking for his last, big contract. And Marvin, who has done nothing, as of yet, to justify the enormous extensions that were signed by the 3 players who sandwiched him in the draft, in Bogut, Paul and Williams.

If you think that these five guys will be the cornerstones of the Hawks, for years to come, you need to go back and bone up on your remedial math skills. Who in the hell commits $50 million, annually, to a .500 roster, when the owners have never spent more than $55 million to field a 15 man roster?

I still don’t know why expressing obvious logic makes me such a bad guy here.

Don’t hate me because I’m right.

Hawks don’t crack the top-ten in the East. Bibby’s traded before the all-star break. Hawks final, cumulative, payroll fails to crack $60 million. And the same people, here, continue to find new ways to excuse unacceptable incompetence, and shoot messengers like kind old Ando…….

By Macaroni Tony

August 27, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Without a single draft pick we still earn an A- grade, I think that is great. Our Hawks are growning up.

By terrell barron

August 27, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

Top 10? Whatever!

By gb

August 27, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

samuel isn’t orlando in the east?

By Macaroni Tony

August 27, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

BillyBoy what are you talking about? First of all JS and AI play different positions, but AI is not as good as JS. He play the two but JJ will destroy him at that postion. AI was one of the main reasons that the 76ers couldn’t get pass the Pistons. He is good player but he’s not worth more money than JS. JS was under paid and all of us here do know that. JS don’t make the best choices all the time, but he’s only 22 and will be a monster this year. People better hope that AI and Brand mesh this year. Sometimes it take alittle time for new players a while to play good together, what the Celtics did is not always the case for every team.

It look like the Hawks would like to get rid of SJ. I hope that we could get another veteran big in his place.

Ando

The Hawks will be alot better than what we all think. These guys have more experience this year, and we have more veteran players: choices The Hawks will be aleast the seventh or eighth seed this year. Just give Bibby a chance to help lead this team. I could care less if we have to trade Bibby next year, but this year I just want some wins. The city of Atlanta deserve that. *I just hope that we stop being financial gurus and just keep being Hawk fans.. *

By Samuel

August 27, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

How many draft picks will it take to equal Bibby’s salary, since you say they’re assigned value?

Ando, I agree that one of those you mentioned will have to go. I believe it will be Marvin. You keep talking about how laughable our franchize is and that we get no respect around the league. What will the public think of us if we finally start to rising, then we get rid of one of our only legit players who has earned respect in the league in Bibby.

Hatin you cause you’re right. What are you right about. Bibby’s still here, Woody’s still here, we’re one of eight playoff teams from last year, and we’ve added two dam_ good players to boot. All you have done to this point is: bump your gums from what I can see.

By travis

August 27, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Apologies

guys please forgive me for posting political issues in this forum. i have been reading your posts and writing my own comments for about 2 years now. i feel like you guys are “cyber buddies”

but hilliary clinton and her supporters are making me want to puke!! when kerry and edwards were vying for the post in ‘04, when edwards lost his supporters immediately went with edwards. hilliary’s supporters are talking about voting for mccain??? wtf?? i care who wins the election, but to vote for the other party or not vote at all just becuase your candidate wasn’t selected for the pres or vp.

Anyway GO HAWKS!! I have the hawks winning 44 games and tying up a 6th seed.

1.boston 2.clev 3.orlando 4.detroit…i think that the bottom 4 are a toss up and atlanta will be in the mix.

By Ariose (S.F)

August 27, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Monta Ellis sidelined for at least three months.

Luke Jackson signs with the Portland Trailblazers

Sincerely,

Sir Links A Lot

By Macaroni Tony

August 27, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

This is part of an article from Hoopsworld about Philly’s grade so far; It wasn’t too long ago the Philadelphia 76ers were not that close to approaching .500 in a weak Eastern Conference. Last year, they showed they have the talent and discipline to provide a tough test for anyone in the East. Along with Atlanta, they were expected to enter next season as a growing team that would improve again.

I feel that Atlanta as a city need more true fans not to say that we are not, but some cities ride the storm with their teams. I don’t care what anyone say about the Hawks will be a better team. WE have players that we have wanted since 2002 or longer, and now we want to trade them because of the financial gurus think that would be best. I don’t understand that. We have three PGs that could lead this team, we have a new sixth man and a combo-guard (Flip) that could get come in the game and lead just like Cassell. When he was with the Pistons he made teams pay with his juggernaut additude.

We have three new rookies that will be good as though we had three draft picks. WE also have JS and WW with playoff experience. A experienced front court with Bibby and JJ. Man let’s stand up for our team, I hope the season starts now.

By Ariose (S.F)

August 27, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

TB, I think this is what you were trying to link…

Nique plays Mr. PR Damage Control.

~ Sir Links A Lot

By jhan

August 27, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Looking ahead it seems to me that Bibby & Marvin will both be moved. Our core has to be JJ, JS & AH. We will end up trading Marvin for assets (players/picks). Bibby’s money will be used to lock up JJ long term.

If JJ won’t sign a long term deal, then Marvin will probably be signed long term. Using Bibby/ZaZa/Speedy money for free agents.

Ando is correct, spending $50M on your starting five is not going to happen.

By terrell barron

August 27, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Thanks Ariose. If you go to the bottom of the page you’ll see the teams Grades so far.

By HB Ando

August 28, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

Did BA really say, “if Acie becomes Tony Parker”?

It’s too funny when certain folks who like to criticize my opinion save me the time of highlighting their ignorance by defining their obvious lack of credibility and insight.

What’s next, BA? If Randolph Morris becomes Tim Duncan……….

When BA’s most accurate statement is referring to himself as a crackhead, it pretty much says it all.

8 more wins, with the loss of a truly versatile sixth man (exponentially compounded by the fact that the Hawks got no compensation), based, according to BA, on the addition of Morris, Evans, Murray and a couple more guys that nobody else in the NBA wanted, is a true head scratcher.

Sam, not only have I answered the salary “take back” issue, I actually had it repeated by one of my biggest foes, Astro Joe. Draft picks have salary matching value. And for a team that has seriously hemorrhaged assets over the past few years (quite literally, we have JJ and the expiring contract of Bibby to show, from a net transactional standpoint, for 4 first rounders-2 for JJ, Diaw, and Childress, 2 early seconds, Lue and Lo Wright).

We don’t have to keep these potential picks, as getting younger isn’t a popular idea. But adding picks gives us replacement assets, for subsequent dealings, without costing the ASG any cash, and getting something in return for a guy, in Bibby, who I just DO NOT believe has any interest in staying here, long term, unless they made him a massive offer, which they can’t afford to do, given the limitations of their finances, the significant commitments to JJ and Smoove, and the obvious future commitment to Horford. And that doesn’t even address Marvin, who clearly isn’t in the same class with the players drafted 1st, 3rd and 4th, to his second; all of whom just signed near max extensions.

But hey, since that genius, BA, suggests that Acie Law may end up being Tony Parker, why anyone would be upset with my ongoing belief that Bibby is both gone and overrated is beyond me.

And one more thing, Sam. Given the ongoing incompetence of Woody and the ASG, do you really think that highlighting their collective belief in Bibby (and given that he’d have to actually not be traded, and sign an extension, just to make your point accurate, your very statement is mere conjecture) somehow undermines my opinion? Kind of like saying the US’s continued military presence in Iraq is absolute proof that Bush’s position is right, regardless of the fact that 75% of the country disagree (and I’m not taking a position on the issue, I’m just point out the analogy, and the utter ignorance you exhibit by building an argument around the construct that if the powers that be believe something, then it must be true).

What’s most funny about all the defensively optimistic positions here, who attack my lower expectations, or just attack me, is that this banter is eerily similar to last summer. And, eighth seed or not, this team was 8 games under .500 last year. And, not surprisingly, most all of the folks who adamantly predicted 45-50 wins were no where to be found before the Hawks had hit the 30 game mark.

So we’ve added a bunch of journeymen. But unless Woody has learned how to institute a transition game, or set up solid half-court sets, or substitute the right players, at the right times, then we’ll be spinning our wheels.

No better than 10th in the East.

By richbrave

August 28, 2008 5:58 AM | Link to this

Readin’ last night’s prose. Had to stop and laugh. Woke up my wife at 5:30 a.m., I was so loud. ETAN THOMAS has JERMAINE O’NEAL trade value.? My g-d, the man just had open-heart surgery a little over a year ago. And he has enough PROVEN talent to be packaged with CARON BUTLER in a trade.? And JERMAINE O’NEAL will finally become a beast and realize his full potential in WASHINGTON.? Wait, let me turn on the light switch. I’m still in the dark. Somehow billieBOY’s hypothesis is not illuminating.

And in relation to the HAWKS, better digest some of ANDO’s hyperbole. I’m buying the BIBBY gone scenerio both for his play on the court, and the financial ramifications off it. I don’t see a 55 million payroll in ATLANTA under the current ownership unless someone like BLANK buys them out ‘lock-stock-and barrel.’ HORFORD’s contract is a literal mine-field in monetary terms and will certainly ‘blow up’ the franchise’s payroll if WILLIAMS and BIBBY are retained at current $ levels.

By ray

August 28, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

Man, I don’t really care at this point whether or not Bibby gets traded. I agreed with Ando and some others that Bibby’s expiring contract holds some value if the Hawks organization is into good asset management. That’s almost comical to think about, though. I figured it would be better than a one-year rental. Yes, I said a one-year rental. But I’m not making the decisions. ‘Nuff said there. On to more trivial matters…

By the waySamuel, it’s obvious that you’ve been coaching high schoolers too long. You’re beginning to sound like them with your “Doc and Ray are riding Ando’s jock” routine.

Besides, judging from the last several posts on this blog, it’s you who got bent over a barrel Pulp Fiction style by Ando….AGAIN…

See what happens when you play dirty?

By Samuel

August 28, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

You guys keep talking about how slow and Old Bibby is but tell me who, outside of Billips and Arenas(who I dont really classify as a point guard) is a better point guard than Bibby in the Eastern Conference?

If we trade him for a big, I would suppose that we would at least expect a starting Big. Not many teams are giving up starting centers these days.

Ray, that’s your place. You know that.

When is JJ’s salary due for reup. How about Al. So we have at least two more seasons to have Bibby. Maybe Acie will be ready by then. Not now.

By kgbsfinst

August 28, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

I’m very suprised to see many people think Bibby will be gone before the end of the year.

I have to ask, to the bloggers that think he will be traded, when do you think it will happen and where do you see us in the playoff picture when this trade will happen?

I get what Ando is saying, we wont be in playoff contention so we will get rid of him for the future and if thats the case, I couldnt agree more.

I for one think we will be playoff bound, and it wouldnt make much sense to get rid of your starting PG, and hurt your team chemistry, for future draft picks.

I only see two ways we get rid of Bibby before the end of the year. 1) We are out of playoff contention, and are looking to get something for him(that would be smart) 2) Law rips it up, and Woody feels he can lead this team, and another team is willing to trade us a player that will come in and help us out in the playoffs.

By doc

August 28, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

samuel there may be fault in your thinking. someone has said that jj can opt out this year if he doesnt like the way things are going or if he gets overtures that there is more money out there. this time next year both bibby and jj may be gone. i hope acie is the real deal then and evans and flp can carry the show.

so, will it happen? maybe not, it is on the horizon and i hope the basg are taking it seriously. he can go as a ufa not restricted if he opts out. something to consider. if we treat al as other have treated their prize acquisitions we tender al a summer later instead of playing the game. money will have to be spent no doubt about that and sooner rather than later. combine that with marvin next summer it could tax the organizations free cash flow tremendously.

so considering that jj can become a free agent, marvin is a rfa and bibby is due a new contract …. samuel, do you think if an offer to move bibby and something of value is there we hold the line hoping that he will not want a huge salary or trade him? no diversion, just what do you do? no pessimism, just analytical reasoning.

By Astro Joe

August 28, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

2 scenarios exist for a team to try to acquire Bibby at the trade deadline. A lottery-bound team is looking to rid themselves of a big contract and wants Bibby for summer salary relief. So a team like the Bucks may offer up Ridnour, Gadzuric & Malik Allen for Bibby. The second scenario is a playoff contender or bubble team that needs to rent Bibby to improve their playoff chances. So a team like Portland offers us an expiring LaFrentz deal plus a 1st round pick (likely around 16-20). Is that good value for Bibby?

By Samuel

August 28, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Doc,

I have to keep referring to last year’s playoffs. I believe that they did so much for the confidence and overall hapiness of the players and coaches. At the beginning of last season, JJ was obviously frustrated and unhappy. When we aquired Bibby you could see the weight being lifted off his shoulders. The playoofs just added to that, IMO.

Players know when they have true ballers to run with. These guys know how valuable Bibby is, trust me. Yall keep failing to mention that the man played on one foot. Players don’t overlook that. Management will have an extreemly hard sell to the players for getting rid of Bibby. Yea, JJ would leave.

AJ, neither of those scenarios do anything to improve this team. A bunch of scrubbs and mid-round pick for a proven vet PG who can score, NO WAY.

Sheed and a pick for Bibby, yea. But please, NO MORE SCRUBBS.

By fudd21

August 28, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Astro I would rather have Outlaw as I think he would be a beast playing 30 minutes. Plus I hear Portland wants to move him.

By Ken Strickland

August 28, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

I don’t see Marvin getting traded, especially to free money to resign JJ. Zaza’s contract expires after this season and Speedy’s expires the same time as JJ’s, so that would free up enough to resign him. In fact, the combination of Bibby, Zaza and Speedy’s expiring contracts should at least put us in the ballpark to resigning Horford, JJ and Marvin. Don’t forget, the contracts of some of our recent FA signees have expiration dates that coinside with JJ’s.

While I’m in the camp that thinks Bibby might be traded by the trade deadline, I don’t think it’s automatic. It will depend on how Acie progresses, providing Woodson allows him too. It also depends on how the team is progressing, what, if anything, is needed to expedite that progression, and what is available and/or can be acquired to get us where we want to be. If the team is doing well and headed towards a playoff berth, or if Acie isn’t far enough along, we ride out the rest of the season with him. Then we use his and Zaza’s money to move forward.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 28, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Trading Bibby makes little sense- at least as far as I can rationalize at this point in time. Reasons being:

-Say the Hawks are having a better than expected season (on pace for 50 wins). There’s a good chance he was a large part of that since he is our starting PG. Think how much better we played following the trade for him last year. Obviously some Law needs to progress, but if we are doing this well, chances are Bibby is helping to lead this team effort.

-If the Hawks are a playoff bubble team as last year, would we really surrender a vet with a lot of experience in order to insert a second year guy who has yet to log significant minutes for an extended period of time?

-If the season is absolutely falling apart and things look hopeless. Why would we surrender Bibby’s expiring contract to acquire either mid-late picks or lottery protected picks? Worse yet say we acquire some other bad contract to balance out the salaries; only it would logically follow that said contract had at least an additional year on it. Bad teams almost universally covet expiring deals, enabling financial flexibility to resign or sign talent to fill holes.

Obviously as seasons unfold and various scenarios come to light, things can change- injuries, litigation, coaching regime, etc but from where we stand it doesnt make sense to get rid of Bibby. I’m not even a “Bibby” fan like that, but playoffs not withstanding, he does add a dimension to our team that we have no replacement for at this juncture- a veteran outside shot, capable of spacing the floor and relieving Joe from being our sole 3pt threat. There is an obvious defensive liability issue, but trade-offs are inevitable.

RISE UP

By doc

August 28, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

samuel you didnt answer or even acknowledge the question, and it directly reflected on your previous comments about how jj can bolt next summer. now do you think we can afford jj, bibby and marvin? … that is the question coming and the one ando, aj , ray myself and others continue to look forward to as part of the strategy going forward.

i know that bibby is good and have explained it over and over both as a shooter, distributor and leader to repeat my stance. if he delivers fine but that is a huge price tag if he isnt on the level of a steve nash. if the team struggles early them clearly he isnt on that level as nash turned that franchise around to where only two turnarounds have been greater in the history of the game; last year in boston and duncan’s first year wth the admiral. if bibby delivers then i am pleased and it agrees with what i have said his potential is if recovered from injury and not an aging star and dont mention it again. if he doesnt and the team struggles to maintain .500 record as they did against a weak late schedule then he has to go, the next scenario. i have never said to get rid of the guy from the get go. please read or remember before changing my thoughts for your intent. maybe you dont like that what we say down deep is in agreement about the potential of bibby being a baller.

we will know within weeks of where this team is going the way the schedule is set up. as you say, the time is now and no more excuses if they dont do it at the start. they crawl in at best if they falter coming out of the gate and bibby is gone to allow acie to see where he fits.

now back to the question or do you refuse to respond? what do you think jj will do if bibby and/or marvin are gone next year?

By doc

August 28, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

ken, doesnt speedy have another year after this one, he signed a four year one and this is year three. that six mil stays on the books this summer. maybe when horford should get paid we free it up for him.

go hawks!

By Samuel

August 28, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

You obviously didn’t read my responce either. I said that Marvin can go. We have plenty of swingmen as Ando calls them. BK saw to that. Marvin Can Walk, Marvin can Walk, Marvin Can Walk.

Nash is good but basically has gotten PHX no further than Bibby with a hell of a lot more talent to work with. He has basically the same limitations with more flash but still no ring or Finals appearance. Bibby at least won a Championship in College.

Isn’t Nash 4 years older than Bibby?

By doc

August 28, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

nash wasnt four years older when he came to phoenix and that was my comparison then not now, geez. funny how empty your argument is since you have recently slammed shawn marion as not being comparable to smith and most say horford has amare potential for greatness. i see it as directly comparable for what it was four years ago when nash came to phoenix. it all aint on nash as things have imploded there starting with the jj drama, no?

my point was again if bibby has that kind of impact to make a team 15 or so games better than what it was then give him cred. samuel, that feather is already in nash’s cap. you just cant take it away; they went from sub 30 to greater than 55 wins on his arrival. i am glad you dont teach history. heh heh

nash, has what two? mvp’s so you classify him as good. boy that is huge on the laughter scale! you will almost try anything to divert a discussion. that doesnt even make sense. let us see if bibby can get two mvp’s at a comparable age over the next four years, i personally will try to rob the brinks truck to keep him.

also, samuel did you hear, jj can go this year? dont count your chickens before they hatch though you do it quite well in anticipation of this year.

By ray

August 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Samuel, come on now. I was expecting a much more colorful respons than that. Getting tired already? Heh.

So…Bibby was playing on one foot, eh? And here all this time I was thinking it was his thumb that was injured. What was wrong with his other foot? And I thought he came back from injury before he got traded? Hmmmm. Looks like your fact-finding game is just as weak as your trash-talking.

Look, I like Mike Bibby. Also, unlike what Ando says, I kinda think he’s going to be around for the duration this season. However, I think it’s due to the idea that management is more interested in keeping an expiring contract so that a chunk of cash will come off the books, rather than using that contract to acquire assets that can either be used to enhance the team, or used to acquire pieces that can enhance the team.

In other words, it’s not due to the idea that Bibby is so damn good. We know he’s good, but more on that subject later.

Look, if you don’t understand the concept of asset acquisition and management, then fine. Understand this, though: It’s an option, not an ultimatum. And for God’s sake stop oversimplifying things into trading Bibby for a starting big. We both know (hell we all know) that this won’t happen. So what is an option? You can trade Bibby for assets that will get you that big. You never know. Of course, that opens up tiny cracks in your argument, so I’ll assume that you think this is just impossible. And no, I don’t have answers as to what assets should or would be acquired for Bibby (if a trade was the better option to pick). You’ll have to call ya boy Rick for that, he gets paid for this. I don’t. Or, you could ask Ando. Heh!

Back to Bibby and his other-worldly talent. Like I said, I like the guy. I like that he’s here. I liked him in Sacramento. Under Rick Adelman. In an offense that was more Bibby shoot first, Bibby pass second. I think the stats alone prove that concept. Now take an older Bibby and put him under Mike Woodson. This ain’t Sacramento, and it ain’t Rick Adelman. I’m hoping like hell that Woody doesn’t try to integrate Bibby into his walk-it-up-then-pass-it-to-JJ brilliant offense. I guess now the new wrinkle will be walk it up, pass it to JJ OR…shoot it. Heh. We’ll see.

Here’s another one for ya. The great Bibby was traded here for Lue and our trash. His replacement was none other than Beno Udrih. Someone who no doubt qualifies as one of your famous EURO PUNKS, despite the fact that Sacramento obviously felt dude was good enough to be handed the reins. Explain that one. Never mind, don’t. I’m sure it was all a conspiracy of the Maloof brothers, two white guys who just can’t be trusted. Yep, that’ll be it.

Hope like hell that I’m as wrong as hell. I’ll be only too glad to admit. In fact, I’ll be counting on you to be there to remind me when I’m proven wrong. Well, about this anyway. I don’t expect you to keep track of all the other times I’m wrong. Even I can’t do that…

One other thing. Last I looked, it was point guards and centers that were the anchor points for teams. I think we’re pretty clear on your opinion of Bibby. He’s pretty damn good, right? I mean, I did see where you say nobody in the East outside of Billups and Arenas are better than he is, didn’t I? So if trading him doesn’t net us a starting big, then what the f*k makes you think that trading trading Marvin will? He’s not even the best swingman on this *team.

I won’t even go into the Nash vs. Bibby debate. I’m sure somebody will feast on your take, but it won’t be me. Even I have some compassion. No wait, forget that last line. I just have to add this part: how many all-star teams has Nash been named to? How about Bibby? Shall we compare stats as well? And what the hell does a college championship mean in the NBA? Didn’t Trajan Langdon win one of those? Where’s he at….

Heh. Summer trash talking. Gotta love it.

By jhan

August 28, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Anyone care to guess what a fair price for Bibby will be next year?

If the top PG’s are making $12-15M/year what is Bibby worth?

He can’t possibly believe he will get paid Paul/Williams/Nash money. Considering his injury history & age I think he will be offered a 4yr/$32M deal.

Might be low & probably still over budget for the Hawks. If he comes out & plays well he might be worth that type of deal. As we saw this past off-season, NBA owners are not throwing money around like in the past.

By ray

August 28, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Doc, two NBA MVPs, five NBA all-star games…but that’s no comparison to having a college championship. No sir…

To echo your other statement, I’d say pay to keep Bibby if things turned out that well. I’d love to see us at 50 wins. I don’t see us at 50 wins though, and that’s what it would take for me to even think that we need to re-up with Bibby for any really significant cash. Of course, you have to be willing to think past the year-and-a-half rental to be able to engage in such conversations. Heh.

Ah well. No doubt this comment will be seen as more “jock riding” just because we agree to a point. Heh.

To be honest, I don’t think Bibby is going anywhere before the trade deadline, and maybe not even then. Which means that the Acie that Samuel says isn’t ready still won’t be ready, because Woody will be too busy playing Bibby 40 minutes a game right next to JJ. Heh.

By ray

August 28, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Jhan, that sounds pretty reasonable, actually…

By Samuel

August 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

How many Finals appearances does Nash have? The guy had two other allstars and a 6th man of the year to work with and couldn’t even make it to the Finals.

Last year he Froze Up in the first game of the playoffs and the series was all down hill from there for the Suns. Every year it’s the same ole thing for Steve Nash. Exciting regular season only to get punked and manhandled in the playoffs.

Ray, you obviously didn’t watch the games last year if you didn’t notice that Bibby had an injured right heel. Get a clue.

By BA

August 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Hey ando, you mongoloid, the Tony Parker thing was in response to Najeh Davenpoop’s previous post, where he cited Parker’s first year in comparision to Law. He thinks Law has a lot of potential. You see, I’m able to interract with someone who has a different opinion than I do without resorting to calling them an idiot. Guess I possess the self-confidence that you clearly lack.

And speaking of unanswered questions, if we’re going by your repetitve, boring, innacurate, and poorly articulated firesale argument, then WHY did they SPEND money on free agents? WHY? That blows up your current half-azz theory just like we’ve blown up so many of your prior theories.

Man, if we just had Noah and Yi, now THAT would be a competetive powerhouse of a team, wouldn’t it?

And you think you’re the smart one? With superior “basketball knowledge”? Spare us, oh great one.

I’m not worried about the thirty-game mark this year, because if I’m proven wrong I can just revel in excuses and say that my quotes were “taken out of context” like you do!

By BA

August 28, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Ando’s “truly versatile sixth man” in ‘07/’08: 11.1 ppg, 5.6 rpg

Morris/Evans/Murray (the “journeymen” that “nobody else wanted”): 21.4 ppg, 7 rpg

And this team isn’t improved?

Yeah, you’re right- no way we can win with three solid bench players instead of one. If only we were as stacked as the Heat or the Bucks…

By doc

August 28, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

yeah ray probably less than 20% bibby goes if i was into odds, there is a scenario that makes him the first off the bus or island whichever metaphor works for you. i guess that is more of what i am saying, he is first to go if they tank it and play below expectation or the ship doesnt sail. okay one more metaphor. 50 wins or more and he is mayo even if he doesnt get national recognition. heh

By Melvin

August 28, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Jhan, I was thinking that Bibby next contract would be under 10mil/yr. As for Bibby, I think he will be in a Hawks uniform for the entire season unless the ship doesn’t sail straight as others had said.

Doc, are you sure JJ can opt out after this season? I thought he had 2yrs left w/o an out-opt….

By doc

August 28, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

didnt bibby disappear against a second year less than 22 year old in the boston series. dad gum samuel, didnt your mother teach you to look both ways before you speak? every argumant you make only makes bibby look that much worse in comparison and noe bibby didnt limp in the boston series and he took his shots and didnt make them dern right disappeared. if he doesnt elevate his game above that then we are headed south and he is headed out.

within 10 games this year we know how competitive this team is. that is what is so good about the tough schedule to start the season. if we dont make it over the hump who will be the first to come up with some more excuses like he wasnt in shape, his thumb wasnt right, his foot was injured. lame thoughts as lame as he might still be. just warning you, hope not but he isnt out on the floor yet. i too would prefer 50 wins, start 7 and 3 we are there.

By doc

August 28, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

didnt bibby disappear against a second year less than 22 year old in the boston series. dad gum samuel, didnt your mother teach you to look both ways before you speak? every argumant you make only makes bibby look that much worse in comparison and noe bibby didnt limp in the boston series and he took his shots and didnt make them dern right disappeared. if he doesnt elevate his game above that then we are headed south and he is headed out.

within 10 games this year we know how competitive this team is. that is what is so good about the tough schedule to start the season. if we dont make it over the hump who will be the first to come up with some more excuses like he wasnt in shape, his thumb wasnt right, his foot was injured. lame thoughts as lame as he might still be. just warning you, hope not but he isnt out on the floor yet. i too would prefer 50 wins, start 7 and 3 we are there.

By doc

August 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

melvin, i think i have heard it from a credible source and i qualified it as something i had read or heard. if it is true what do you think, test the waters or stay at present salary with the hawks?

jhan real buddy real.

i wonder if our buddy ant is keeping up with metaphors in this blog to explain the possibilities going forward. there is a lot to keep ant counting, infinite.

By doc

August 28, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

BA you know there are obvious faults to that kind of thinking as minutes played have to be considered as well. i doubt they can duplicate or better chills numbers in less than 27 minutes averaged per game that chills got his. didnt evans play about that or more on avg alone last year and come up short. come on, i know it sound good but you are too smart to not realize that flaw. if you dont then your ire for ando has taken you off your game man. heh heh

By mike

August 28, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

H O W

A B O U T

A

N E W

B L O G

T H I S

B L O G

S U C K S

By Ariose (S.F)

August 28, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

Damn guys, whats with the slugfest??? lol. Give Bibby a chance to play a game first. Thumb, foot or whatever, it matters not. The point is he’s been working hard like everyone else on the squad this summer and he’s ready to go at 100%.

I’m betting we’ll be around .500 (up or down) by the all-star break. Then when we get those long homestands is when we’ll take flight. Especially if you all show up at the WAFFLE House.

~Sir Links A Lot

By jhan

August 28, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

I agree with those who think Bibby is here until the end of the season. I can’t see any trade opportunities that would make sense.

If the ASG are cash poor (not a stretch to believe) their best solution is to bite the bullet & pay him for the season. Unless we trade him for a 1st round pick & a couple of expiring contracts we don’t really gain anything. Who would trade their own expiring contracts plus a 1st rounder for another expiring contract? Doesn’t make sense to me.

I’m hoping Bibby comes into camp healthy & motivated. He doesn’t have to be Nash or Paul for this team to be good. He just needs to be 80% of the Bibby we all remember & this team will be fine.

Don’t forget that last season when his outside shot was falling, this team was very hard to beat. For whatever reason (fatigue, injury, whatever) his shot stopped falling & the team really was mediocre after that. He doesn’t have to be a lockdown defender or have 12 assists per game. He has to be a consistent threat as an outside shooter to allow Horford & Smith to work in the paint. His shooting will also allow JJ many single coverage opportunities.

He’s never going to have the wheels of a 22 year old again - but he doesn’t have to have them. He needs to use his veteran experience to equalize the age difference. Anybody think Billups or Nash can keep up with the new PG’s in the league? Not a chance. But, who wouldn’t like to have them on their team?

By Ariose (S.F)

August 28, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

If I remember correctly when he was in Sacramento, Rick adlemand always monitered Bibby’s minutes very well. Bobby Jackson got about the same amount of PT. Maybe Bibby just isn’t used to playing 40+ a game on a consistant basis?? Or Maybe he was just out of shape???? Who knows, but it shouldn’t be a proble this year.

~Sir Links A Lot

By Sautee

August 28, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

I’d just like to see consistency from Bibby. I don’t remember the posters’ name who chimed in last year after the trade, but he was a Kings fan and he warned us then that Bibby was excellent about one out of 5 games and off his feed the rest of the time. And damned if that didn’t prove to be so, although I’m hoping that it was because he was playing hurt.

As doc says, the first 10 or 12 games will tell us a lot.

I’m a BIG Bibby fan and have been since his Arizona days, but 1 out of 5 was about right last year. We need more particularly for $15M+.

By Ken Strickland

August 28, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

DOC-I believe both players have another yr on their contracts after this one. Zaza and Solomon are the only players on multi yr contracts that expire this yr.

If the Hawks try to keep Bibby after this season, especially if we have to pay anywhere near his current salary, we run the risk of repeating the JSmith fiasco again with Horford. We also run the risk of possibly losing JJ. How many teams can realistically afford to make their 3rd or 4th best player, who’s injury prone and on the decline, their highest paid player. That kind of fiscal irresponsibility will eventually come back and bite you in the buttocks.

If keeping Bibby and overpaying for his services is the only way we can compete for a playoff spot, our team and its long term future are in deep deep trouble. We are in good shape financially right now. We’ll have about 20M come off the books after this season between Bibby, Zaza and Solomon. JJ and Speedy’s contracts will expire the yr after that. We are in a position to lock our core players up long term, but not if we spend irresponsibly by overpay for aging, injury prone, one dimensionsl players like Bibby.

By Melvin

August 28, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

Doc, http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm JJ doesn’t have a player opt. To answer your question, i say stand pat for now to see how this team gel/perform in the 1st half of the season and then access your options (trade,stand pat) at that point. We will have salary cap flexibility, draft picks and rights to JChill (Andersen and Cenk) next year to use as assets to improve this team going forward.

By Samuel

August 28, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

How bout your’s Doc? Did you check your facts or was that from one of Ando’s great prognostications?

Better than gettn outplayed by a guy named Smush. Remember that year?

Dam_, Sheryl Crow is kinda fine. Reminds me of my girl Carley Simone from back in the day.

The Hawks new slogan.

YES WE CAN

By jhan

August 28, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Phoenix style basketball reminds me of the old Chargers football - great during the regular season but beat like a drum in the playoffs.

OR

Sekou should like this - Ohio State football looks great during the Big 10 season but when they meet the SEC in the bowl games they are manhandled.

By doc

August 28, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

samuel we agree on both of those babes. i think cheryl has it from the neck up i you catch my drift. heh heh

funny, nash had plenty of stamina back when he was bibby’s age. i see folks already making excuses for the guy. we need him on the court at least 35 mpg.

By doc

August 28, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

jhan, i think it might be better to refer to it as n y knicks style bball.

look out samuel your knicks might end up with a slew of euros playing that softball stuff. can curry keep up?

By jhan

August 28, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

That’s right doc. I wonder how well Randolph, Curry & others will adapt to D’Antoni’s style.

I wonder if he’ll be able to adapt his system to his current roster? I don’t believe he has optimal players for that system in New York.

He & Woody are in the same boat right now. Their teams are not constructed to play the way they like to coach. We’ll see who adapts better.

By Samuel

August 28, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Michael McDonald from my all time favorite group, The Doobies Baby. Who will the Republicans bring out? Bill Gaither, Michael W. Smith?

I love me some Amy Grant though.

Actually Doc, I was thinking something very simular. I can see DAntoni trying to get Nash in NY. I believe that either Kerr or Nash will go in PHX. Curry will be gone from NY too.

By doc

August 28, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

so you are checking out the dnc, huh?

for the republican event i promise it wont be bono and u2. heh heh

By Samuel

August 28, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

WOW,

Yall think John The Robot McCain can top that one? The best i’ve ever seen in these 46 years.

By Melvin

August 28, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

Wow, I know that I didn’t hear the CNN analyst just say that “whomever the Republican VP that didn’t get pick, maybe a lucky Republican”…. McCain has his work cut out for him. Stay tune…

By Samuel

August 28, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

The first debate is in where else but: Mississippi. No contest Yall. Truthfully yall. Do yall think America is ready to make history and do the right thing?

Ando, you’re the great prognosticator. What do you think of MY Boy Barack’s chances? Doc. How say you?

By GSU-Lee

August 29, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

Samuel, In all serious, what did Obama say? NOTHING. It was a smart speech and a safe speechbut the fact of the matter is he didn’t address national security and no matter what he says, if he truly intends on the expansion of healthcare and tuition coverage, etc., he WILL have to raise taxes. All Obama said tonight is that is in fact arrogant and will be one of the most liberal Presidents this country has ever seen. In my book, that is not encouraging in any way.

By Ken Strickland

August 29, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

All I know is I can’t wait to see what old ancient age(McCain) will do to try and top this. I hope this campaign doesn’t get too involved. I would hate for Cindy to get stressed again and start using like she did when she, her father and her Senator husband were shoulder deep in worlds greatest robbery, the Keating Savings and Loans scandal. Of course, that’s assuming she ever stopped using.

As a Black man, I am very, very proud of what happened tonight. It shows that as a whole, we’ve come a very, very, very long ways since the days when I was legally denied the constitutional right to vote for the president of the United States. Man, I just broke down from so much emotion. I’ve lived to see and experience it both ways. I don’t know if Barack will win, but just having the chance to try is a big victory in itself.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By BA

August 29, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

Hey doc, good point (5:07 pm). Let’s break it down (excluding Randolph “Duncan”, who just hasn’t had enough pt to tell much at all)-

Evans in ‘07/’08 with Orlando: 9.3 ppg, in 23.9 mpg

Murray in Indy last year: 11 ppg in 23 mpg

Took Chills 30.3 mpg to get his 12 ppg.

Look, I liked Childress a lot. But to suggest that his absence will drop the Hawks out of the top ten is a stretch at best. Either one of those guys is a serviceable replacement, and they signed both.

And I hope you’re wrong about Bibby playing 34 mpg this season, because that would mean Acie Law hasn’t made any progress.

By Samuel

August 29, 2008 6:48 AM | Link to this

GSU-Lee,

Of course it’s not encouraging for you to see all them intelligent Black folk with that kind of power. It’s scary right. The White house(excuse me) The Black House with a little SOUL. Get over it.

National Security. This country is weaker than it’s ever been National Security wise, thanks to that crack-head GWB.

YES WE CAN

By Astro Joe

August 29, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

Obama dropped about 101 points on the other guys last night. But the other side gets to fire back next week. Can’t wait to see if they have “W” make his exit speech at 2:17 PM… far away from prime time. And Cheney may be speaking at 2:17 AM.

I agree jhan with your salary projection for Bibby. If Law looks like he is on the Devin Harris apprentice program, I wouldn’t be surprised if Hawks offered Bibby a 3-year deal. Doc, if JJ has an ETO after this summer, that would be news to me also.

Did Mutombo ever sign a contract? If he wants to play next season, bring him back home. Give him 8-10 minutes a game to block a shot and bloody a nose with those dangerous elbows. I guarantee that having Mutombo sitting at the end of the bench would easily result in an extra 2-3 wins this season.

By kgbsfinst

August 29, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

You know the funniest thing about his speech was when he was talking about voting against Bush, and how McCain voted for him. I bet you McCain comes out and says he was against Bush a lot. What does that tell you about Bush when BOTH presidential nominees wont touch you with a ten foot poll?

By Sautee

August 29, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

BA

So tell us exactly how many minutes you think “the NEW Woody” will give Evans and Murray.

I don’t think it’ll be 23 per game each.

Not with JJ playing no LESS than 36. And if Marvin is as improved as we all hope, then he’ll get the lion’s share of minutes at the 3 slot.

Woody MAY have changed his spots, but he IS still Woody. I’d guess, barring injury, they get 10-12 each at most. Which would mean that… extrapolated, their output could very likely be less than Chills.

But believe me, that’s NOT what I hope for, just what I think is likely.

By Sautee

August 29, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

It’ll be very interesting to see who starts for Marvin (while he’s suspended) the first game.

Would you start Evans at the 3 or move JJ to 3 and start Flip at the 2?

I think Flip can create his own shot better than Evans, so I’d move JJ (who obviously is a better 3 than most teams have).

Whadda you bloggers think? Which is a stronger lineup? And why?

By I.MUS WRITE

August 29, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Jeezuz-Iz it still quitting time?………….I mean im say’n,…..How about ground hoggz day- Same stale a* blog, same comments just worded differently. Same ol Ando…try’n to be Ms.Cleo…When his predictions blow up in his face sum time in april he’ll be back stroking again……….. Wow

Did sumone kidnapp the beat writer?

By kgbsfinst

August 29, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

I dont thinks its a huge deal who starts that first game, I will be interested to see who finishes. I would guess the better player during camp and pre-season will get the nod to start. I think that would be a nice reward for their effort.

By Astro Joe

August 29, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

I expect Mo Evans to start for Marvin. No need to ask the other starters to do anything differently and Evans will likely see a lot of minutes with those other cats anyone.

Looks like McCain chose an Alaskan cutie to join him on the campaign trail. And, she’s an energy pro. Smart move, very smart.

By ray

August 29, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

I’ll never vote for somebody to make history. I’ll vote because they’re the right person or they’re simply better than the alternative.

Having said that, there’s a lot to celebrate if we end up with our first black president, provided he does a good job. As a black man, I would be glad to see that because it would be a great example for many of our young people to follow.

My true hope however is that whoever assumes office does bring about positive change. We’re weakening as a country.

By doc

August 29, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

KEN, i hear your joy of expression. i am very satisfied to see things come so far as i grew up in the last years of the age of segregation where i just shook my head as i didnt understand it morally, ethically or religiously. i am one of many of no color that is very excited for the nation to have come so far as well. many like me were out spoken for change in the 60’s and the demolition of belief that men of color werent the same. just like any belief, there was so much false belief in it. i hope some day that folks can drop the reprisal energy and be supportive of each other color or not and stop the energy that everything springs only from that platform. simple thought only hard to manifest as many still want to hold onto their own anger, hate and rebellion.

ken, again very well expressed. though not to tears i am filled with hope. it hasnt been easy to be working for change but worth every ounce of energy expended. it is something to say that i have to think about the vote 2008 as who to vote for rather than against. honestly, when i found myself voting more against someone i quit voting. i admire mccain as well so i will have to listen hard the next few months.

By ray

August 29, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Each person crying for change must be willing to do their part in bringing about change. Nothing is worse or more hypocritical than those who scream about the hate, but continue to hold onto their own hate. Sad. Will they never understand what King really meant?

By Ken Strickland

August 29, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

DOC-don’t be so quick to classify yourself. Beauty, wisdom, compassion, humility, understanding etc, all have colors. And if you are in possession of any of these attributes, and you do, then you are a person of color(s). THANKS MY FRIEND.

McCain’s choice for VP is revealing. On one hand, he likes to tout Obama’s alledged lack of experience compared to his. Then, for political reasons only, he selects a running mate with even less experience than Obama. If something happened to McCain, and it could very well happen considering his age and health issues, especially his particular health issues, she would assume the presidency. Why would McCain make experience such an overriding issue of importance for Obama, but not for his chosen running mate?

He and the Republican party are desperate for votes, so she was chosen in an attempt to capture those disgruntled Hillary voters. MCCAIN SEEMS MORE INTERESTED IN PUTING HIMSELF IN THE POSITION OF BECOMING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES RATHER THAN PUTTING HIMSELF IN THE POSITION OF BEING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. How can he think he can solve the social, economic and political problems of this country while vowing to continue the policies and the war that are the primary causes of these very problems. If we ended the war, think of the millions of gallons of fuel we’d save each day. Don’t you think that would help lower gas prices? Remember, supply and demand. Oboma was right, McCain just doesn’t get it. I’M THROUGH PREACHING.

LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 29, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

Wow, you know it’s a slow time of the year for basketball when you come to the Hawks blog and all the posts are about Obama’s speech yesterday.

Obama is a good personality and has some good ideas, and will probably get my vote. But until America progresses to the point where we have more than two choices to pick from, I’m not gonna be all that excited about voting for any candidate.

By Astro Joe

August 29, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Najeh, someone done told you wrong. You have a choice of McCann, Obama, Cynthia McKinney and Bob Barr. And is Ralph Nader running again? That’s 4 options with Congressional experience and one experienced Presidential candidate.

And you thought you were limited to 2 viable options. Ha!

By Samuel

August 29, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

I gotta agree. This shows some serious despiration by the Republicans. A women who just two years ago could boast her highest office being mayor of a city of 6,000 people.

I definately have nothing against women ruling or running anything but come on. The woman has a newborn baby. How can you preach womanhood and family values and take on a responsibility like this. How, as a mother, can you adequately raise a child and be the Vice president and quite possibly the president.

Seriously grasping for straws here.

By Samuel

August 29, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

Ando,

This choice looks like the Republicans are tanking this one and gearing up for 2012. I seriously don’t believe they want the office for another 4 years after fleecing the country like it has the last 8 years.

A 73 year old Robot with serious health issues and a hockey mom.

Too bad their Republican constituency is too stubborn and/or racist to realize it. There really is no comparison, if we’re honest.

By DAP01

August 29, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Give us a new topic, save us from this uniformed political talk

By Ken Strickland

August 30, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

DAP01-uninformed opinions, or an assessment from someone that’s in deep denial.

By RA

August 30, 2008 3:00 AM | Link to this

Okay, here’s a topic. How about the writers for ESPN overhauling their estimations of how the Hawks are going to do this season. They’ve got our boys listed 11th in the East! I mean come on! It seems to me like the world is determined to disrespect our team, but Sekou’s written a pretty good article about why the Hawks were winners in free agency this summer. Check it out.

By Ken Strickland

August 30, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

RA-where did these same ESPN writers have us finishing last yr? They didn’t consider us a team that was even capable of contending for a playoff spot, let alone one actually capable of making the playoffs. If any big market team makes a move that’s perceived as positive, they’re rated as vastly improved, even the Knicks and the Heat. We, on the other hand, are judged by what we don’t have or what we’ve lost.

The fact we’re such a young team should lead one to believe we would automatically improve based on the development of our young, inexperienced, still developing, talent laden players. Adding players that bring talent and strengthens several team weaknesses(outside shooting, long range shooting, one on one ability, a deeper more versatile bench, and DEF) seems to be considered none issues.

These writers are catering to the franchises that have the largest and most loyal fan base. They’re just trying to sell tickets and magazines. We’re not considered as being in that category, yet.

By Clyde

August 30, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Roll Tide!!

By doc

August 30, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

what conference is utah from? heh heh

By richbrave

August 30, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

“People of Color” Such an archaic descriptive for the peoples of the earth. A mosaic of people maybe. Or better yet, ignore color altogether and embrace our common humanity for we are only slight varients of the same “species”. Now there was a movie.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 31, 2008 5:17 AM | Link to this

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

By richbrave

August 31, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

By Ken Strickland

August 31, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

It appears the title of this blog “QUITTIN TIME” has turned out to be apropos. It looks like the AJC writers have quit writing. At least the brief discussion about the presidential election was something different and interesting.

Hey, how about the VP selection the Republicans picked for McCain. Surely you don’t think McCain personally picked a person he’s only met once in his entire life and knows practically nothing about. If this represents the types of decisison making he and the Republican party are going to make, this country is in deep s-it if he’s elected. This selection proves beyond a doubt that we are in for more of the same stupid, ill conceived, politically motivated, self serving decision making, and other crap, both Bush and the Republican party have been dumping on us the last 8 yrs.

I have a question. Can anyone tell me how McCain can make the issue of Obama’s experience the foundation of his campaign, then accept a running mate with less than half Obama’s experience, and on a lower level? You want to talk about flip flopping, about eating crow, about not believing your own rethoric/BS, about talking out of both sides of your mouth, about losing all cedibility whatsoever.

THE REASON FOR ALL OF THIS IS CALLED, IN A WORD, “DESPERATION”.

By richbrave

August 31, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

KEN:

“Desperation” because the Reps are losing and know it. ANYTHING to get elected.

Religion and politics are “taboo” subjects on ATLANTA’s various forums, so we’re all a little circumspect in that regard, except SANTA who posts frequently on CHOP CHICK’s blog about morality and Christendom. Well, what can you say about a foreigner and a non-believer.?

SEKOU, aren’t you back from vacation yet? Little help. There must be something HAWKSian to chew on besides the same old, same old.

ANDO, I have found common ground with you in regard to BIBBY. Finally, saw him perform with the chips down. How much is his contract.???? Way-y-y-y too much.!!!!

By Ken Strickland

August 31, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

RICH BRAVE-fair enough. I have no problem with Bibby as a player, especially if he’s on our roster. However, I do have a problem if we have to pay him more than half of his current salary. His declining abilities and limitations cannot justify the expenditure. The repercussions could jeopardize our ability to keep our core intact. Besides, his OFF, experience and savy can be replaced, and his DEF has virtually been nonexistent, so that’s not a problem.

If, and/or when Bibby goes will depend on Acie and Woodson. Woodson has to allow him mins and consistent opportunity early to step his gm up, and Acie has to respond in a positive manner. If those 2 things happen, we could trade Bibby by the trade deadline and not miss a beat. I still want to see how we perform out of training camp with a healthy, acclimated Bibby. I also want to see how Woodson responds now that he has the vet PG and bench he’s been crying about needing, as well as no BK snapping at his butt.

By richbrave

August 31, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

KEN:

Contract $$$$.???? Xerox, brother, xerox!!!! Play - right on!!!!

Yes, I too am curious to see the juxtaposition between the WOODEN-one and BIBBY played out before the deadline. There better be some serious chemistry between the two right out of the gate. WOODSON should have re-arranged some of his offensive sets to allow BIBBY more space in transition, or I’m afraid I and all HAWKS fans will be sorely disappointed.

By Ken Strickland

August 31, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

RICHBRAVE-I know we are one of the NBA’a most talented laden teams and also one of it’s most exciting. That in itself doesn’t mean we’ll be one of the NBA’a best. It’s all in how that talent is distributed and/or utilized. We have far more talent than the Spurs, but they are a far better team because of their experience and how the talent they have is distributed and utilized(ANDO likes to call it balance).

All teams have weaknesses, even the NBA championship Celtics, as well demonstrated in the playoffs. Success is often determined by how well you use your strengths to hide/minimize your weaknesses. If Woodson allows us to use our superior athleticizm, speed, quickness and youth/stamina consistenly, we can minimize our weaknesses. The additions of Murray, Evans and Morris have minimized some of last yrs weakness. We have more perimeter shooters, one on one ability, depth at guard, interior size, perimeter DEF, experience off the bench and long range shooting. Our biggest problem will be inside OFF and DEF. Better perimeter DEF will help the interior DEF tremendously. The additions of Murray, Evans and Speedy, especially the latter 2, will be a factor there. The progress of Horford and Smoove will determine how much our inside OFF improves.

If a number of factors prevail(the development/progression of Woodson, Acie, Morris, Horford, Smoove and the successful intergration of our FA’s)we could be on the verge of a breakout season.

By da boss

August 31, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

i have fired sekou for frequent no call no show on the blog

By Melvin

August 31, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

It was reported that the Heat has agreed to term with Jamaal Magloire for the Vet min. Dang, the Hawks couldn’t offer him that? He could have been the experience big man that we needed to bang in the paint….

By Clyde

August 31, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Roll Tide

By truth be told

August 31, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

Obama is not black, do not be fooled. He is Arab and white mixed. He rejects his white side as it is not good for votes. He claims to be african-american but his closest connection to that is through his grandmother. In effect, his ancestors were not slaves, but rather slave owners as both whites and Arabs engaged in this for centuries. If you’re black and thinking that history is being made, then you are right. But it is not the history you think it is, and it is not YOUR history that is changing. It is american history that is changing, and not for the better. Let it be known now that the white men that have occupied the office of president may be devils, but at least these devils you know. This devil you do not know, and he will betray you all the worse. Obama is an elitist, though he has learned to shed or smooth over this image over time, as it is detrimental to his campaign, much like that pastor and others whom he has shed along the way. What place does an elitist have amongst black men and women? The same place as those who occupy the office now. Black people do themselves a disservice and waste the hard won right to vote by using that right to vote for one who will not respect you or take care of you. Again, Obama is not black. He is something else. And he will prove it. Continue to revel in your simple minded foolishness. The truth will be told soon enough. Then there will be time for nothing but regret. If you thought these rich Texan white men acted like THE MAN, wait until you get a load of the true Obama. Who by the way is controlled by white liberals, like all Democratic nominees. How stupid can you be to fall for the same thing over and over?

By Mike is back

August 31, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

The only problem with all this chatter about moving Bibby is that the Hawks need Bibby just as bad as any of the aforementioned teams on this blog. How easy is it to forget the calming feeling Bibby had on this team from the time he arrived. The biggest benefactor of Bibby arrival to the teams was JJ. Bibby assumed the role of leader on the Hawks team…freeing JJ of a role he has never seem comfortable in. There are so many intangible Bibby brings to the team other than defense. He’s a savvy veteran that knows how to compensate for his short coming on defense.

Despite his injuries, Bibby has been a big game big shot player throughout his career. If I’m trying to make the playoff for a second time with a young team like the Hawks, I take my chances with a healthy Bibby any day. He has always played with a ton of heart. The tenacity of this guy was on full display for every Hawks fan to see when played the remainder of the season with one hand and one leg. This guy is a gamer, you would think that Bibby would have garnered more respect from the guys on this blog, especially with the gutsy performance this put on last season. He could have easily packed it in last season, knowing he would be going into a contract year, but this guy refused to lay down. Considering the guys we had at that position prior to Bibby , we should feel fortunate that he’s on our roster.

By richbrave

September 1, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

And our other choice is…..?

By Mike is back

September 1, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

my bad I ment, especially with the gutsy performance he put on last season.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Ken Strickland

September 1, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

It never fails. As soon as the subjects of religion and politics are broached, out comes these delusional fanatics who feel compelled to give their distorted, mindless, belief based rhetoric.

First of all you ignorant MORON, Arab or Arabic isn’t a racial classification, nor is it scientifically based. It’s an ethnical, cultural/linguistic and/or geographical/regional classification. His father is from Kenya, which is in East Africa. Since when did Kenyans become Arabs, you IDIOT.

Now let me try and understand your feable attempt at logic. YOU’RE SAYING, EVEN THOUGH YOU CONSIDER MCCAIN A WHITE DEVIL, WE SHOULD VOTE FOR HIM ANYWAY BECAUSE WE KNOW HE’S ONE. ON THE OTHER HAND, WE SHOULDN’T VOTE FOR OBAMA BECAUSE HE MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT BE A BLACK DEVIL. SO, WE’RE BETTER OFF WITH THE SURE THING THAN A MERE POSSIBILITY.

WOW, YOU ARE ABOUT ONE SICK, DELUSIONAL, RACIST PIECE OF RANCID MEAT.

MIKE IS BACK-it’s not Bibby or what he brings to the table that’s the problem. It’s the price tag we have to pay to get it, and it’s waaay too much. It just makes no sense to have one of your least talented and versatile starters, especially on DEF, as well as your oldest player, who is in decline, as your highest paid player. Between Speedy, Acie and Murray, he can be replaced, especially his limited DEF, for about half the cost. Remember, signing Bibby may have gotten us into the playoffs, but his high salary likely cost us Chills and could have cost us Smoove. If not for his exhorbant salary, we most likely would have resigned Chills and Smoove to extentions earlier.

By #21=Top50,1stballot

September 1, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this

Ken,

Bibby’s largest contribution to the team isnt veteran savvy, leadership, or even random intangibles- quite the contrary, it’s very tangible: Bibby can shoot and distribute the rock. When AJ was stewarding the team we won more often than not when he cracked double digits in points and/or had 6+ assists. Bibby is capable of doing both on any given night- that’s what we need, his outside shot and primary ball handling. Neither of the 3 guards you mention can do either very well (flip can score in bunches but consistency is not his thing). I agree his current salary is cumbersome to put it mildly, but since it’s expiring, we can foot the bill for this last season because we need his on court contribution as well as the flexibility brought by his contract’s expiration. I highly doubt anyone will pony up near that much for him in the offseason, for the reasons you previously mention.

I also dont know that his contract prohibited resigning the Joshes, possible, but who knows. BASG/Sund seemed to be playing hardball as a tactic, not a necessity. They went 1 for 2 when 2 for two seemed plausible if not obvious.

RISE UP

By Samuel

September 1, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

TBT,

That’s funny. You guys are really despirate. Kinda reminds me of the Tiger Woods racial identity thing. What about Michelle, is she black enough for ya?

By richbrave

September 1, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

KEN:

Yours of 1:09 a.m. today. Tell us how you really feel about uninformed political takes. You go dude.

Now BIBBY thas’ diff. I been sayin’ give the man space to operate and his passing and shooting will improve. But WOODIE has to build some offensive schemes around his abilities. What he had in the playbook last year worked to his detriment. And the comments here about the WOODEN-one have LED me to believe the coach may not adapt. That said, some of the moves I saw him make against the WIZARDS looked like good coaching to me, so I waiting and watching. By the trade deadline we should have a pretty good feel about the BIBBY - WOODSON interplay. As I said “here’s hopin’.

If not ANDO’s scenerio holds true and the money he gets and the money he wants will force the PG out the door.

By Ken Strickland

September 1, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Everyone needs to keep in mind that teams are successfully doubling and tripling JJ because of Woodsons limited OFF sets. When everything is isolation and pick and roll, with no options to counter, it’s easy. When the OFF is designed to feature no more that 1 or 2 playsers at any given time, it’s easy. Even without Bibby, a few back picks, cuts and lobs, especially with our athletic frontcourt, the doubling and tripling wouldn’t be an issue.

When any player is doubled, the DEF is disadvantaged because it’s 4 on 3. Woodson’s OFF has no recognizable counter for this situation. We saw the fallacy in relying on Bibby’s outside shooting to limit the doubling of JJ in the playoffs against Boston. We simply need Woodson to employ more imagination or show a willingness to accept imput from others.

Our OFF should be designed to thrive on teams trying to double and triple JJ. Instead, we struggle, why? There are players in the league that are more prolific scorers than JJ. Yet, they don’t seem to suffer the same fate as he does. Players like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Melo, etc, have OFF’s that take advantage of DEF’s that try to double their key player. We obviously don’t.

In so many cases, and this is one of them, it’s up to the HC, not the players, to limit the teams liabilities, as well as the impact DEF strategies might have on the teams OFF. Bottomline, Woodson and his abvious limitations are the reason Bibby is so important to this team.

By ray

September 1, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

truth be told, did somebody give you bad directions? The Falcons blog is two doors down. There is a much larger group of racists there (which is why I don’t post as much…gets old really quick there), and you’d be welcome. By the way, show us brave and wise you really are and have a t-shirt made up with your whole post on it. Then wear it in down-town Atlanta. I’ll call the meat wagon ahead of time…

Ken, don’t let this crap bug you. Have you really heard much different on the Falcons blog? Besides, people who type stuff like that tend to be looking for a reaction. However, you damn sure did call it right. You were a bit nice on the name-calling though, heh heh! I can think of more interesting things to call somebody like that. LOL!

Mike is Back, believe me…after our years-old point guard saga, we are happy to have a guy like Bibby on the roster. However, we cannot downplay certain things. He’s good, but he’s good in a particular system. He had his best years under Adelman, which coincidentally were much like his years at Arizona. Same type of run and gun offense that allowed him to shoot more than he passed, and was about running and general movement.

I think this “playing with one arm and one leg” thing is overblown. Yes he was injured. He had a sore heel (thankyou Sam for being on his jock enough to know exactly what his problem was), and a sore thumb. An injury is an injury. But if it’s a bad one, then you can’t play. Bibby played. So tell me this: were the injuries not that bad, or was it the fact that Woody was so damn scared and desperate that he was putting Bibby in there whether he was hurting or not? Gutsy performances? He had some good ones, but where were these performances when we lost to Miami’s scrubs late in the season? We could’ve secured our playoff spot, but we kept losing winnable games toward the end, and had to wait for Indiana to gift wrap it for us by losing key games themselves (and they had the tie-breaker over us, had it come down to that). JJ was giving all the gutsy performances. The whole time. Not Bibby. Not to mention, Bibby had only ONE playoff game that I’d call good. The rest were a clinic on how to get beat by a much younger unheralded pg. Yeah, yeah, I know…Bibby was playing with only one arm and one leg…

Know what my real issue is? Mike Woodson. The man has not and does not run the type of system that will allow Bibby to succeed. Bibby needs to play in a shoot first, distribute second system. He just about always has, hasn’t he? He can get and create his own shot, so he doesn’t have to pass. Funny thing is, we’ve already got that guy. His name is Joe Johnson. I’m not saying this to be facetious. I’m saying this because this is how Woody has been running things. This is why we haven’t seen those vintage 20 point, 7 assist performances from Bibby.Bibby cannot be what he was or do what he is capable of in the system that Woody has been using. It just does not and will not work. And we don’t have time for him to try a more fluid, running offense for 5 games, then revert right back to his old, slow style that doesn’t work with a smaller lineup.

And I don’t care how much of a Woody supporter you are. We ran the same crap the whole time, even after acquiring Bibby, until the playoffs came and guys started doing other things on their own. Horford started doing stuff. He got Josh involved, who managed to catch fire for a few games. JJ was doing his thing the entire time. It was all out of joint though, which is why we got blown out for 4 road games. JJ complained that young guys were running wild on offense (notice he didn’t say anything about those youngsters on defense though), but that was what was winning those three games.

Question is, will Woody institute and stick with a system that takes advantage of what our guys have to offer (especially Bibby), or will he keep running the same CRAP he’s been running? I hear some people crying that he’s been dealt a bad hand. True, to a point. But now supposedly Sund the Savior has changed all that. He’s built the roster differently. Added veterans (not elderly guys, veterans). Woody has what he needs now, right? You can take a horse to water….

If it doesn’t work, then it’s exactly what some of us have been saying all the time: it’s Woody!

By Ken Strickland

September 1, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

This information is for everyone. BARRACK OBAMA WILL NOT BE THE 1ST BLACK PRESIDENT IF ELECTED. HE WILL JUST BE THE 1ST ACKNOWLEDGED BLACK PRESIDENT. If you base his race on having a Black mother or father, then Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge preceded him. It’s also been documented that Dwight D. Eisenhower’s grandmother was a Black Irish women. Remember the terms BLACK IRISH, OR BLACK HEADED IRISH?

And the Irish leprechaun concept derives from the Roman accounts of the conquest of the original Black inhabitants, called Firbogs. These twa, or pygmies, lived underground, and because of their diminutive size, had to fight gorilla style. They would attack then disappear underground. That’s how the myth of the disappearing leprechaun came into being, except there color was changed from black to green.

By BA

September 1, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t everbody realize that there is no such thing as “race”? All of our genes can be traced back to Africa. Skin color evolved due to regional weather conditions. “Race” was a term devised by racists. That having been said, I hate to see the best and brightest minds here wasting their efforts discussing “race”.

Ray, I remember a number of 20-7 type performances from Bibby. I also remember him hobbling around clearly injured during a number of games. The guy has the guts of a burglar. I think (hope) that this season you’ll see something closer to the real Bibby and I think (hope) that Woodson’s playbook will expand, now that he’s been renewed. That was a tired, desperate team down the stretch last year.

But you nailed it about Johnson- we wouldn’t have made the playoffs without Bibby, but it was Johnson that finished the deal, and it was Johnson that had the Celtics bench hiding behing their towels in disbelief in that classic picture from the playoffs.

By Ken Strickland

September 1, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

RAY-you’re starting to p** me off. You seem to cover everything I want to express or would consider expressing. It’s because of you that I’m now relegated to discussing other topics, heh, heh. I couldn’t have said it better.

As far as my response to that ANAL, I had to. I spend a lot of time on the Falcons blogs, and I get my share of that crap. I’ll be damned if I’m going to allow ANAL MINDED MORONS like him/her to invade this domain with that kind of crap, unscathed.

When I first signed on the Hawks site, I brought that Falcons blog attitude with me(special thanks to DOC for pointing that out to me). Poor ANDO was the recepient of my initial rath. After a series of attacks on ANDO, and a few others, I finally decided to slowly raise my head. As a result, my head was correspondingly removed from my anus, and I was able to see myself in the mirror. I’ve been OK, and OK with ANDO, every since.

By Clyde

September 1, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Where did he term “black” come from anyway? I have brown skin so I’m not black.

By Ken Strickland

September 1, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

BA-there is the HUMAN RACE. And every varying phenotype that exists within it, as you correctly said, is just an environmentally influenced variation of the original.

Right now, we have a beautiful mix of experience and youth. Most of our vets, especially our leaders, play backcourt positions, which allows them to control the ball and the OFF. Our youg players are mostly frontcourt players that are energetic, exceptionally athletic, hard working and versatile. They’re now at the stage in their development where Woodson has to take the training wheels off, and let them learn by trial and error, rather than his staple, crime and punishment.

By doc

September 1, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

ken, professionally speaking, let it go man, helps the blood pressure among many things. even the little things can hinder you. btw, the mind can not discriminate as to who you are referring when you throw epithets, scary but true. you might well as be yelling at yourself as someone else.

now that you have said you’ve peace or piece, dont forget the scroll button that our fair lady dmb pointed out to us.

one more month of drivel then we can really trash each other and up the ire of our own discontent. heh heh

i wonder if the realist is still wondering if the team can get over the low bar? hope so or he is going to look pretty silly among his true peers. i’m just a fan, his cred depends on it. sad to say many fans have been farther on the money than the real pros in this organization. do we have true change? time to find out as we count it down.

By Samuel

September 1, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Blackness is not a race, its a way of life.

Certain people are not necessarily concerned with Barack’s skin color or heredity, they are concerned with his mind-set due to the knowledge and people who have enfluenced him.

I could go deeper into this Race issue but I won’t for now.

Ray,Doc and Ando really are very poor at descising you dissappointment in the fact that: 1) The Hawks made the playoffs and gave the eventual Champs all they could handle, 2) Chose to keep Coach Woodson, 3) Have one of the best backcourts in the Eastern Conference and 4) Made some good offseason moves which should make them better.

Ray, you are really showing you lack of basketball knowledge while trying to win an argument. Bibby was on the floor because he was head and shoulders above any point guard we had, even with a bad thumb and bad foot.

You people get me comparing Bibby and Rondo. First of all Bibby was injured and secondly their roles are completely different. Rondo basically has to play defense and get the ball to 1 of 3 future Hall of Fame scorers. Most teams barely even guarded Rondo. Sure, he stepped up but his job was nothing like Bibby’s. Bibby had to run the team and provide the only other consistant scoring thret on the floor.

Sure, we lost but those playoffs put the Atlanta Hawks on the map. Now, we have to continue to get better and I believe we will.

It’s your right to criticize here but please quit calling yourselves Hawks Fans. It’s pretty obvious that you want the Hawks to lose so that Woodson will get fired, we don’t make the playoffs and you can say, “I told you so”. Be honest.

By Ken Strickland

September 1, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

CLYDE-the word BLACK is an adjective that originally denoted a color. It is the only color/gene in the human color/gene spectrum that can produce itself and all other colors/genes. But it’s not our color that separates us, it’s our mentality, which is too often based on ignorance, stupidity, misunderstanding and fears. This presidential election is a perfect example.

By Najeh Davenpoop

September 1, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

We REALLY need a new blog. Happy Labor Day everybody.

By BA

September 1, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

Samuel, again I think you’re too eager to lump in doc and Ray with ando. There’s a difference: doc/Ray are not afraid to post after a Hawks win. And I’ve seen them both say they’d love to see the Hawks win 40+. ando? I think your theory is 100% accurate. A non Hawks fan that would love nothing more than to see the whole organization collapse.

Speaking of ando, anybody else notice the flip-flop he did with Childress? For YEARS, all we hear is Deng/Iguodala, Iguodala/Deng, and yet a couple of days ago, he cited the Hawks loss of a “truly versatile sixth man” as the primary reason for a losing record this upcoming year.

Kind of nice to have it both ways, isn’t it? If only we could all be so insightful…

By doc

September 1, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

though somw decry otherwise as a true fan of the hwaks i am able to see the fact that:

1) The Hawks made the playoffs as the last team in backing in all the way against weak competition and had fewer wins than teams that didnt even make the playoffs and i paid good money as a fan to sit close to the action taking my kids to see the team give the eventual Champs all they could handle at home while getting trashed and thrashed in the away games,

2) Chose to keep Coach Woodson, who has never shown an ability to manage game situations while racking up one of the worst win percentages ever by an nba head coach in the history of the game,

3) Have one of the best backcourts in the Eastern Conference if they are truly healthy and bibby is the same player he was two years ago or not even close to the best if he is being paid 15 million bucks a year to be a shadow of his true self, all to be revealed this pre-season and beyond … i will wait and watch before declaring one way or the other which is discerning.

and

4) Made some good offseason moves which should make them better but maybe not that much better because they lost a guy many feel and say was part of the glue that held the team together because of his complete and unselfish game to the point they had to get two guys to replace him and hope the combination will make up for the loss.

now, what am i not getting of the whole story instead of the half story?

heh heh, go hawks!

By Samuel

September 1, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

By Sautee

September 1, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

Samuel

Sorry bud, but you sound just like Dick Cheney saying the Dems are not patriots because they disagree with the administration.

TOTALLY PITIFUL of you to doubt doc’s fandom regarding the Hawks.

Argue other points as you wish, but why doubt another fan’s sincerity for the sake of making a dubious point?

You’re “better than that”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Sautee

September 1, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Samuel

Also, regarding #2., Woodson couldn’t even do what the “great” Mike Brown could do…. give the Celts a respectable fight in Game 7. Setting the bar low again, eh Sam?

A query for you:

If the Hawks start 5-10 and Bibby is once again playing well in 1 out of 5 games, will you still think he’s worth $15.25M? (By the way that’s NOT what I hope, but it’s a realistic possibility if Woodson coaches like he did last year).

By Samuel

September 1, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

Just calling it like I see it. BUDDY

I see nothing but negativism comming from this crew.

Sure, Cleveland took Boston to seven and played them closer than we did. That makes us the 3rd best team in the NBA at the end of the year last year. What TRUE FAN wouldn’t be excited about that?

By Ken Strickland

September 1, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

DOC-got cha, I’m through.

SAMUUEL-what’s up my friend? You seem to be in attack mode of late, why? You might not agree with certain posters, but having a difference of opinion doesn’t necessarily make either individual is stupid, ignorant or lacking in knowledge or understanding. Ease up and jump in, not jump on.

By Samuel

September 1, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Where have I called anybody stupid or ignorant. I got this. I’m just playing catch up.

By doc

September 1, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

samuel, i had no voice left after each game when i went to the playoffs, great stuff and i commented on it welcomingly afterwards on the blog. i enjoyed it thoroughly along with my daughter one night and my son the other two nights. even my daughter who plays soccer and has no affection for bball was aware the hawks had little chance as she had heard that from her friends at school. we still went enthusiastically. she and i along with 23,000 folks were screaming our heads off from the get go.

if you want t say i am not a fan then go ahead but i was able to disagree with the mainstream thought as i grew up and not feel a traitor to “my race or my country” though it wasnt a popular one on either civil rights or vietnam. i think our country is founded on the ability to be able to speak our minds and for something as irrelevant as basketball i certainly wont be intimidated to back down from what my thoughts are. i do it with reason, articulation and without resorting to names for the most part.

bottom line, too many questions in my mind to be answered before i can be totally optimistic about this team. i have stated how it can come together and how it can unravel, plain and simple. if you only hear or see one half of the argument, then so be it.

funny, back three years ago i was one of the first and only bloggers to bring up the point that somehow woody had been able to keep the teams interest to continue to play hard even as they succumbed to a 16 win season. in other words i was one of the few to give woody any credit that year. since that time i have changed my expectations to think the team is capable of more. i also feel that woody has not developed talent outside of one player in smith whose athleticism and extra work in the off season may have been more of why he has excelled rather than coaching. chills is gone the only other young player that has progressed in the last four years. zaza went backward, and the list is long of players that came with some game only to be exiled to the bench. i just dont see any other player that has developed from this coaching staff. other players have left to find a modicum of success or frank success in other systems or other towns.

this is the year that woody gets to show us what he really has and i stand by to wait and see what he does. if he is successful then i will be pleased, just as i am pleased cox was as successful as he has been as the braves coach having watched his earlier teams. this is a make or break year is how i see it. no standing still or no backing up not at 37 wins. as you say this is the year the excuses stop and i look forward to seeing more of these guys and watching them play to a high level if they are allowed to play.

By HawkDawg

September 1, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

12 days without a new thread!?! I love reading this blog, but this is getting a little frustrating.

By ray

September 1, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Samuel, you don’t really want to go there do you? How many times have I posted that while I haven’t seen evidence that Woody is as good as you say he is, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong? How many times did I say I’d like to eat crow on this? How many times did I say I’d like to see us have a better than .500 record? How many times? Do you read all of what I say, or just enough to argue with me (fun as it may have been)? Those aren’t disclaimers, that’s me being honest, since it’s honesty you want to talk about. And for the record, it was ME who said that some people are more concerned with winning the argument than winning. I’m not one of those people, get it?

But you must be, because all you can resort to is telling me how little I know about the game and that I’m not a Hawks fan. Which by the way, is a LIE.

There is no argument for me to win. I want to see the Hawks win. I don’t think the Bibby we have now is the same Bibby of ‘04-‘05 or ‘05-‘06. And Woody is not Adelman. If your knowledge is so damn great, you can recognize what a player can do within a system, and what many players cannot do when forced into a system that does not best serve them, or allow them to serve the team. I’ve already described (although not in great detail) Bibby’s transition from college to the NBA. He played in a run and gun offense in college and excelled. Under Rick Adelman’s Kings, he played in an offense with similar ideas: predicated on speed and shooting ability. He’s always been a scoring pg in a high octane offense. It’s his forte.

Now, here’s the point I’ve been trying to make: Is this the kind of offense that Woody runs? Well, is it?? Answer that, then tell me if you think Bibby is as good in the “offense” that Woody has been running here lately. YOu see? No argument, just an observation and a question. I hope the answer is not what it looks like. Otherwise, we won’t win much.

The problem with you is that you pick arguments you can’t win, then get mad when you don’t win. There is no comparison between Bibby and the other pgs we’ve had here. I think many of us agreed and have said so. That means there is no argument. You must’ve gotten frustrated at that. You wanted to compare Bibby to Nash. Bad move. You can’t win that argument by a long shot. Frustrated again. You say that myself, Doc, and Ando are disappointed in the offseason moves we made. I stopped complaining about the lack of moves a long time ago when I repeatedly posted that I was pleased with the acquisitions of Evans and Murray. Go back and read how many times I said that. But no, you won’t because that means you can’t win that argument either. Damn that must be frustrating.

But I’ll throw you a bone, since you want one to chew on so damn badly. No, I didn’t agree with keeping Woodson. Yes, I realize Bibby was injured last year. I hope there’s a won argument in there for you somewhere.

I’ll leave Ando and Doc to fend for themselves, since they are quite capable. You can stop with your “3 for 1 hater sale.” We don’t all think exactly alike. Even a simpleton can see that. Well, I would hope so anyway…

And for the last time. I hope I’m wrong, and I hope you’re right. I hope Woody takes advantages of the mismatches this team offers. Take it for what it is. I ain’t gonna tell ya again, homeboy.

By ray

September 1, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

BA, I have the same hopes you have. I just don’t have the same unwavering belief that Sam has. I agree, Bibby is indeed gutsy. The fact that we should’ve won more games than we did last year is no direct reflection on Bibby. He was the new guy. I didn’t mean for it to come out that way. I think we’ll be better than last year if the playbook is not only expanded, but changed. We’ll have to work for it, but this team of guys is a bunch of hard workers.

Ken, hate to pi$$ you off. Don’t want you going off on me like that anal moron, LOL!! Dude, you had some serious heat going on there. Can’t say I blame you though. It’s a hot button for me too, which is why I have to cool it ahead of time. We may not have agreed on every detail, but I always respect you. You never struck me as someone who had his head up his arse, trust me. I can spot those a mile away…even a GPS unit can’t give them clear direction…

By clint

September 2, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this

Trying to sign migloire to the vet minimum would have been nice.

Hello sekou, you gave us no tip off on the mo evans & flip murray signings or that memphis was even interested in smoove, so how bout a new blog for the true hawks fans

By Samuel

September 2, 2008 6:35 AM | Link to this

Frustrated, you guys are the ones who looked frustrated to me. I like you can spot a phony a mile away.

If you guys were true fans you would acknowlwdge the fact that we are a better team than last year starting the season. Even our opponents can see that.

I aint buying it.

By Sautee

September 2, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

new blog up