Hawks

By khao$

August 12, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

After receiving nothing for Childress…it makes me sick to my stomach that we could have gotten Calderon. Our ownership group is too hands on. I believe that is the ultimate reason Billy Knight left. Although I disagreed with several of his draft picks, if he was your GM, you live and die by his decisions; he’s your basketball guy. Otherwise, if you don’t trust him, fire him. Will Knight and Childress made the decisions for the Spirit.

By Frustrated Fan

August 12, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

If we would have had calderon we would have won more games for sure. And although we would have lost childress, we would have been getting a starter in return for a cheaper price.

By Gilley

August 12, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Everyone and all the experts had Marvin Williams as the best available talent and I thought the Hawks felt they could not pass up on “his potential” as I remember it. I think we as Hawks fans wanted Chris Paul or Derron Williams but we had Billy Knight and Mike Woodson at the helm…So I wasn’t surprised. Marvin still has potential to show why he was worthy of a Number 2 pick. But you have to consider the coaching system and play calling that doesn’t necessarily maximize his skills with Woodson calling the plays.

By Frustrated Fan

August 12, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Since the Hawks signed Othello Hunter, how do you think the rotations will work at Center. I mean we are kinda stacked in there now (not a bad thing). Horford will still play there, Zaza, Solomon Jones, and Randolph Morris. Hunter seems like the last guy off the bench to me

By oldmike

August 12, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Sekou Any way we can get the ASG to resign? Maybe their contract (with the league and city) needs to expire.

By Billy Hoyle

August 12, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

Great piece, Let’s pray for peace in Georgia. No need to go back and ney-say on what could have been.

Maurice Evans, will surprise people, with both his long range shooting touch and overall intensity. You don’t think he is feeling the heat as Chilly’s replacement, Evans will show-out this season. Also, O Hunter, was a beast at times at OSU, and will remember folks of Udonis Haslam with his ability to run the floor and soft touch around the basket.

Here are a group of potential swing guards the Hawks may be able to roundout their roster with..

1.Devin Brown (Cle) 2.Derek Anderson (Cha) 3.Juan Dixon (Det) 4.Fred Jones (NY) 5.DeMarr Johnson (Den) 6.Von Wafer (Por)

Any thoughts? Go Hawks, if we stay healty and win 18 games on the road, we find ourselves back in the playoffs, fighting like everyone else!

By Frustrated Fan

August 12, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

never mind…for some reasoni though he was taller than 6-7/6-8

By rays

August 12, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Sekou: It seems as though we are set at every position except small forward. We only have Marvin there. Any thoughts on any available 3’s out there?? Maybe White or Jackson??

By ray

August 12, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Khao, you’re absolutely right. We would’ve had a starter at pg for years to come.

The ASG is definitely too hands on. And yeah, I believe that’s precisely why Billy Knight left, despite Gearons’s offer of a one year contract (or whatever it was). It’s disgusting to know that this chance was missed. Even more perplexing is Billy and Woody’s gaffes with drafting point guards.

Here’s what I don’t get: Paul is too small, Deron is too pudgy, and neither can shoot well enough…and so you spend a chunk of cash on SPEEDY CLAXTON??!! He’s an inch taller than Paul (and was his *backup), and he’s NEVER been able to shoot well!! I don’t even have a name for this type of stupidity….

Heh. Here’s my question: How many posts before our dear ol’ friend , Realist shows back up to try and change the flow of conversation? Or his estranged Camp 2 buddy…..

By Melvin

August 12, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Nice [http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/sierra/2008/08/10/josh-smith-im-glad-its-over/] (Aricle on Josh Smith)….

All I can say is that I didn’t say that. Me and Coach Woodson have a good relationship. I actually was talking to him throughout the whole process before getting signed. - Don’t sound like a guy who dislike his coach to me.

By we need this guy

August 12, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Michael Finley !!!! Agree?

By mountain jim

August 12, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

I wish Knight would speak and expose all the meddling his ‘bosses’ caused. We know about not allowing him to fire Woodson, now not allowing a trade for Calderon, what else?

Hawks ownership is the absolute worst.

By ray

August 12, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Frustrated Fan, I see him at the PF spot more than anything else. He’s not ideal for that spot either, but I think his motor and determination will make up for his lack of weight/strength…but I think he’ll add strength as well. If you want some good, current info on him, look up his profile in DraftExpress. It’s a good take on him. I look for him to take Solo’s spot if Solo hasn’t improved. And we don’t know if he’s improved or not…the fool skipped the summer league…

I really feel bad for Zaza and his family/friends/countrymen. If there’s one thing (among many) that we take for granted here in the U.S., it’s that we don’t wake up in war zones every day. This is a way of life for some people. Gotta keep Zaza’s people in our prayers.

By JD

August 12, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

The whole Caulderon situation is a clear example of the Hawks ownership having too much influence in basketball decisions. That would have been an excellent move and at a less expensive cost. The fact that the ownership group blocked that trade is a clear indication that they are too hands on with this franchise. They need to step back and let the basketball people do their jobs.

Isn’t hindsight always 20/20? The Hawks had no interest in drafting either Chris Paul or Deron Williams, two people whose positions were a definite need for this team and look at them now. Granted, when they needed to draft a point guard, they didn’t flinch the second time, but they could have had this fixed a long time ago. I know we need to move past the misses of not drafting Paul or Williams, but it’s clearly evident that this management staff was not good at evaluating talent at all.

Good signings w/ Othello Hunter and Thomas Gardner, though. Gotta shore up the bench with a little production. And from what I saw of them in summer league (although summer league competition is different from actual season competition), they are gonna be pushing some people who think they’ve got a roster spot sewn up.

By ray

August 12, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Melvin, that was crap coming from anonymous (and possibly local) sources. I mean, if Josh is saying that, shouldn’t we give him the benefit of the doubt? I think he’s a good kid who’s learning the business and potentially treacherous media side of the NBA. He’ll be fine.

It would be nice to have Mike Finley, but I think he’d rather play for a championship contender.

I figure with Childress gone, Mo Evans will be seeing as much or more time as the back-up SF than as the back-up SG. In fact, if Gardner shows up well, he will pull more back-up SG duties. I would love to see him put that scoring punch on display for us. Also, if Jeremy Richardson stays on, then he’ll pull duties at SG.

I don’t know though. Hunter and Gardner might put some guys out of jobs. I love my boy Mario West, but there’s no substitute for blazing offense. And Gardner showed me more in the SL than Richardson did by far. Is Luke Jackson still around, or has another team picked him up?

Billy Hoyle, nice list. I’m trying to think whether I’d lean more towards shooter, defender, or combo guard….hmmmm.

By jhan

August 12, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

I didn’t think it was possible but the ASG looks less competent than ever!

Maybe they’ve hit bottom & are now on the upward swing. Can they get any worse?

By Bell

August 12, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

It would be different if the owners were muddling in things like dallas cowboys owner Jerry Jones. But they don’t even have the money to buy their way out of bad situations. Hire good professionals then let them do their jobs you brainless knuckleheads.

By asg is suck

August 12, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

yeah, great signings of hunter and gardner. way to shoot for the stars.lindsey hunter? no, he’s too expensive, othello is cheaper. gardner? some undrafted rookie - he’s hella cheap.

marcus camby? too expensive. we think randolph morris is a good (cheap) fit.

i spit in your face, asg.

By terrell barron

August 12, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

They passed on Paul and Williams because they wanted a vet pg, WHO COULD SHOOT. So why in the hell did they sign Speedy? HE CANT SHOOT, WHATSOEVER! They passed on those guys for one reason only, THEY THOUGHT MARVIN HAD THE MOST UPSIDE. Period! And knight is looking smarter and smarter by the minute. He tried to can Woody. Didnt happen! He tried to move Chills for Calderon. Did’nt happen! There’s probably a few more things that he wanted done but they just DID’NT HAPPEN. WOW!!

By kgbsfinst

August 12, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Doc and Manny Thanks for the info about Chills contract, I didnt know!

I would like to give Luke Jackson a try. I think with his shooting skills he could play the 3 and 4, pending on where we need him. Also, having him out there at times with Smith and Horford, gives more height and rebounding, and it should help keep Smith under the basket instead out by the three point line. It would also stretch the D a little more than Marvin can and open up the post for Smith and AL.

I think(hope) Smith is getting more work with Hakeem, or Calvin this offseason like he did last year. He has the ability to post up, and showed signs last year.

By Sekou K. Smith

August 12, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

I didn’t point out the Calderon thing to incite yet another round of Atlanta Spirit bashing. I only mentioned it to show just how different things would be right now if you make one decision this way instead of that way.

The center rotation works like this, Al Horford eats first and then Zaza and then Randolph Morris. I don’t think Othello Hunter is logging any minutes at center. He’s more of a PF/SF type in the NBA.

I love the Mike Finley idea. LOVE IT! That’s the kind of vet you add and he makes the team better on and off the floor.

By terrell barron

August 12, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

They passed on Paul and Williams because they wanted a vet pg, WHO COULD SHOOT? So why in the hell did they sign Speedy? HE CANT SHOOT, WHATSOEVER! They passed on those guys for one reason only, THEY THOUGHT MARVIN HAD THE MOST UPSIDE. Period! And Knight is looking smarter and smarter by the minute. He tried to can Woody. Didnt happen! He tried to move Chills for Calderon. Did’nt happen! There’s probably a few more things that he wanted done but they just DID’NT HAPPEN. WOW!!

By Melvin

August 12, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Let’s try this link again.

Nice http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/sierra/2008/08/10/josh-smith-im-glad-its-over…

By doc

August 12, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

kgb, i think manny t and i answered your question about chill and cap on the last blog.

jhan, to continue, no one knows exactly when the 33 mil offer came to chills. based on some facts that have leaked i think it was late in the game as the chillls’ camp had better offers than the initial offer from the hawks from other nba teams. the hawks dragged their feet and chills found something he couldnt refuse and the hawks couldnt match apparently after james posey turned it down; to quote sund “to stay in the nba” …. anyone hear maybe just a little slight dig there? it is also the first time i have heard that spin.

interesting take came that the hawks had some insight into knowing that smith was talking to the griz and that the ongoing negotiations dont go on in a vacuum between a team and a player they want as we are led to believe or think it so anyway. it seems teams can ask for such info. sekou might have more on that as it was glossed over in the interview and was hard to follow

BA in a continuation, one more that ando nailed before it came out was he wanted calderon very badly. we would be in much better shape financially if we had and might have been able to keep chills and still have a reasonable payroll for wins maybe from guys who have already been winners.

there is that word again potential, terrell still interested to know that you want your daughter to marry a man who talks of success or emphasizes his potential /promise rather than one who has achieved or is successful. it is also a funny spin that says success somehow tarnishes one because he has been around a bit. hmmmmmm.

it would be suicidal for knight to say one word about his former employers anywhere than off the record. no one would hire him going forward.

By terrell barron

August 12, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

The only downfall from the Calderon deal would’ve been that Sheldon, and LW would still be here, because we would’nt have went after Bibby. lol!! On the other hand, we coulda kept our 2nd rdr that we gave up for AJ. It’s all just woulda, coulda, shoulda now. Calderon woulda been a different player under Woody anyway. Same thing goes for Paul and Williams.

By terrell barron

August 12, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Frustratedfan, Othello Hunter is a 6’8 pf.

By Matt

August 12, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Ray,

You hit the nail on the head on both counts. Hunter is gonna push Solomon for his spot - and given that Solo decided to skip mini-camp and the summer league, I’m not at all sure that Solo can hold his ground.

I can’t imagine what Zaza is going through right now. If my family and friends were in a war zone, I know I’d find it impossible to think about or focus on anything else. One can only pray that Zaza’s friends and family are safe, and that his countrymen will all be safe soon.

By Mike

August 12, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

SEKOU,

Wouldn’t the Childress/Calderon deal have been impossible with them both as base-year compensation players? I don’t understand that rule, but there was a bit on espn.com recently about how it’s practically impossible to trade, say, Iguodala for Ben Gordon because you have to take back only half in salary, or something like that.

Also, don’t you agree that the USA would be much better with Joe Johnson on the final roster than Kidd? Their main problem right now is 3-point shooting, and Joe is a better defender than Kidd, too. And they have Paul and Williams for when you need a true point in the game.

By terrell barron

August 12, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

And Sekou, why are you bringing all of this old s** up now. I’m tired of the Paul, Williams talk. I heard Marvin was working on his 3 pt shot and is bulking up a little bit. How’s he looking? How about talking about the players ON OUR ROSTER. Quit TRYING to stir s** up. And in my honest opinion, there’s no freakin way Toronto woulda moved Calderon for Chills, with TJ’s injury history. Who did they end up signing? I think it was Jose and not, TJ. And one more thing, is Mario on his way out? Gardner might spell the end of the Mario era. you think? And I’m not knocking you, I’m just tired of arguing. We were all actually getting along ever since Smoove got signed. lol!!

By doc

August 12, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

kgb obviously i was posting as you sent yours up, didnt want you to miss it as it came on the cusp of a new blog. also rarely re post figuring folks that want it can go bck and check it out.

yup, terrell right on and we get it square on his shoulders now dont we.

By terrell barron

August 12, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Rememeber Ray, they went after Cassell, before they signed Speedy. Speedy was the only pg left that was available when Sam I am went elsewhere. I had forgotten that myself. Not trying to justify passing on the u know who’s. Just sayin.

By BA

August 12, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Doc, I never said Ando wasn’t informed. That’s HIS game, the whole tired “village idiot” routine. He challennged me to find one instance in which he made a prediction that was wrong. I came up with four (and stopped there) and he has been an absolute ghost ever since. If an individual is going to claim to be head and shoulders smarter than everyone else, then said individual should be prepared to be challenged. I too remember him wanting Calderon, just like everybody else did. He wanted Paul, just like everybody else did. So what? That establishes him as some sort of genius? I’m not buying it.

I’m also not buing that with another year’s experience in the league for Marvin, Josh, (both of whom have improved every year) and Al, and a full year with a healthier Bibby, and the additions (however much they contribute) of Evans and Morris, etc., that it’s unreasonable to expect this squad to win 45-50 games in the always weak Eastern Conference.

But maybe for you guys it’s more fun to speculate about a trade deadline housecleaning and a crappy season. To each his own, I guess.

By MannyT

August 12, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

I agree that we will never hear it from him, but I am amused that the first post here was from khao$. In the acronympho world KAOS means Knight Acknowledges—Owneship Stinks!

He wasn’t fired, but he did refuse to take the one year option. Why be the puppet master fall guy again. Let Sund-one else do it;-) I’m not saying he was great, but Knight was not as bad as folks made him out to be.

Moving back toward the now…jhan I left my case for using a relationship to make a lower offer acceptable on the prior blog.

If there were no Chills last season, but there was a Calderon, things get very tricky based on timing. If BK knows he’s making that deal, does he still draft Law or go in a different direction with the 11 pick? With Lue & AJohnson are still on the roster, maybe 11 becomes a best player available pick.

That also means LoWright, Shelden, Lue, & Johnson are probably not getting traded for Bibby. There would be more cap space as 3 of those contracts would have expired. Marvin (or the #11 pick) plays more because you need someone to pick up Chills minutes at the 3. Jeremy Richardson is not a Hawk.

We would have also had rights to resign Calderon, but he’d have some explaining to do about the fake Chinaman face picture.

We would possibly have BK instead of Sund if he got to do his deals. Not sure what that would mean for Woody.

Lot’s of changes to the space time continuum here. We need Journeyman or Sam Beckett (Quantum Leap) or Ando to time travel and work this one out.

Even though it is very convoluted now, it could have meant less KAOS!

By MannyT

August 12, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Remember, Speedy was not the PG targeted that summer. It was Sam Cassell. Once he used us as girl X to get a better date with girl Y (the Clippers), we needed someone else. There were not a lot of veteran PG free agent options.

We had to put up a better than average contract to get Speedy because he (and all other free agents) knew that the Hawks were the girl X choice of near last resort.

If I am not mistaken, that is the summer after the Hawks racked up a solid 13 wins. All the free agents looked at us and saw Jessica Alba or was it Alpo.

WAF

By terrell barron

August 12, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

The always weak Eastern Coference? Uhh, the East has WON 3 out of the last 5 Championships.

By doc

August 12, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

terrell, do you read anything or just pop off. :-))

now, look up above and check the blog note. it was because it was brought up by the media today during the broadcast and doug collins was giving his take on the paul, williams and williams saga. it just wasnt like it had been presented at the time according to sekou’s notes. simple and fair enough explanation for you?

it also rings true for everything that was said back then that was both spoken and printed in the media. they bought into what you like promise and potential rather than proven. remember many questioned that marvin didnt even play that big a role on his college team as they won the championship and williams and paul were proven and tested over a longer period.

i fell for the stuff too but it is what was said not because they knew in the back of their minds that they could get jj and put him at point. incidentally, that story may have started from our own ando. wasnt it he who said it was why they didnt get a point as they had targeted jj all along?

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 12, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Nice to see you getting your John Yu on- you weren’t advocating such, just saying for exploring examples of torture (which this is for us Hawks fans). Thanks man. J/K.

RISE UP

By MannyT

August 12, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Not saying that we are 100% in sync, but I do say that I agree with a lot of terrell’s stuff today. Don’t know what that means, but it just goes to show you cannot disagree about everything.

Rock ‘n roll, Mr Barron!

By ant banks

August 12, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

what difference does it make that the hawks passed on d. williams and cp3? y’all still support them and by tickets and blog to no end. what incentive do the hawks have to change? despite all of the blunders this team has made, they have a TON of fans!! IF YOU WANT THE ASG TO CHANGE, YOU CHANGE!! QUIT BUYING TIX, PAYING FOR PARKING, BUYING HIGH CONCESSIONS, BUYING OVERPRICED LIQUOR!! OTHERWISE, SHUT UP!! take it like a biotch

By terrell barron

August 12, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Are you copying my posts Manny? lol! And I’m sorry Doc, did’nt mean to upset you. I’ll leave ya boy Sekou alone. lol!! Whenever I see Paul and Williams mentioned on a Hawks blog, I go ballistic.

By kirknga

August 12, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Why would Collins lie? His reputation has always been an intense guy and one that is a straight-shooter.

I’m not saying Sekou is wrong.

Is it possible that it was Knight and Woodson’s idea, and JJ totally agreed and that is why Collins said such a thing?

I still place blame with the organization for not drafting either guy,in hindsight it was a horrible decision and there’s no other way to spin it.

There was vigorous debate here on the blog as to which one to take. Should it be the short guy, or the fat and slow guy? No consensus choice emerged except with perhaps a few frequent commentors.

I would have liked to have gotten a comment from Collins after he was challenged about the veracity of the comment.

Well, we’re deep into the offseason, wow, who will be players 12-15 huh? More ASG bashing,wow, imagine that ,never gets too old to talk about. Well I did my part, hope it wasn’t enough to disturb the self-appointed keepers of the “the flow”.

Go Hawks!!

By Brad

August 12, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Every move has unintended consequences. If the Hawks had drafted Paul or Deron Williams then they would have had a better record in the 06-07 season, right? Then the Hawks would not have lucked up and got the 3 draft pick in 07. We also would have lost that pick to Phoenix. THEN THE HAWKS COULD NOT HAVE DRAFTED AL HORFORD!!!! So basically you have a choice, Paul or Williams, or having Horford and Acie Law. Personally, I would rather have Horford and Law. But everyone has their own opinion.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 12, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Sekou does expose a couple things though: (I know this may sound like conspiracy theory/venting but since it’s out there…)

His notes cite both BK AND WOODY regarding personel decisions on passing on both D Will and CP3. I’m guessing that’s finally an admission that Woody did/does indeed have some impact on personel decisions. It’s also funny because D Will is older than Duck. We drafted him with expecation that he wasnt ready to play yet- he didnt even start for UNC. Plus we knew if the experiment didnt work out, Joe had experience at the off-guard position. Sigh…. I could go on

So it could be said that Woody indeed did have an influence on previous roster moves. So was he involved with drafting Shelden? What about the Calderone botching? BK going for experience would seem in part a reflection of Woody’s style (a Larry “hates to play young guys” Brown disciple). It is a little disconcerting as a fan to find out more and more about our erstwhile GM trying to do things to have perhaps improved our team only to have management flummox the proceedings.

Funny, isn’t that what they resent Belkin for (at least in part)?

RISE UP

By Astro Joe

August 12, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Let’s be fair here, when BK was saying that he wanted a veteran PG, he was still under the delusion that the owners would allow him to spend some real money, as the team was well below the cap back then. Think about it, Marvin (and Deron & CP3) came out the summer that we traded for JJ. That was the same summer that BK told JJ that he wouldn’t stop building the team with JJ. BK may have been a huge jerk but there is no evidence that he was a straight liar. I don’t recall which PGs (other than Billups) were close to being a FA at the time, but my guess is that BK had a few guys in mind only to learn (ironically as a result of the JJ signing) that the ownership fiasco probably wiped out the first half-dozen names on his wish list and he was left with Cassell and Speedy. If you plotted BK’s trade history, you would see how things virtually stopped in July, 2005. That was when things went south for this team. Some would argue that the drafting of Childress & Marvin were the beginning of the end. In my opinion, it was the debacle of the owner-initiated divorce than began when we started talking to JJ in July only to have a riot break-out in the executive suites of the ASG.

By mykhalc

August 12, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

ok Sekou, don’t say nothin’ when our boy ANDO shows up and goes on a TIRADE-A-THON now that you brought back up the whole CP3 and DERON thing!!! this feels like an ‘exit stage left’ blog as you go on vacation!!! ‘cause YOU KNOW this topic will go back and forth for days, even weeks until your return!!!!;o) where you headed??LOL

By Astro Joe

August 12, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Doc, but Ando would never acknowledge that BK was trying to get things done and was hand-cuffed by ownership. No matter how many times you (and I) suggested that BK’s bosses were in control, he kept spouting off about “autonomy” based on some email or ticketholder meeting.

And does the addition of a big do-nothing center like Morris mean that we now have “balance” or does balance require that we pay for a talented center who can actually be on the floor for 24+ minutes/game? Oh, there’s that subject again, money.

By Mike

August 12, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

For those of you defending based on their interest in Cassell, that doesn’t make it better! Ask the Clippers how that turned out for them. He was hurt most of the year and terrible when he wasn’t. They let him go for nothing before Boston picked him up.

When will people like Doug Collins come up with something to say about the Hawks besides that they passed on Chris Paul? That was three years ago now! If you watch the Hawks on League Pass you know EVERY visiting announcer mentions it. They are just too lazy to learn anything new about the team.

By Mychelfromatl

August 12, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

I’m with Brad…in the long run Id rather have Hortford and Acie Law than Chris or Darren alone…And who knows maybe Marvin will come lights-out this year since this is contract year. But then that leaves us locked into another summer of turtle-paced negotiations with the ASG. Damn.

By roan st

August 12, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Billy knight really was hamstrung just as some of us suspected. How different would we feel about Billy had he been able to turn childress into Calderon. That deal would have went a long ways towards equalizing the mistake he made by passing on paul or deron. So lets look at that team: calderon, jj, marvin, smoove, horford. Thats a pretty darn good nucleus Billy would have built. Find a decent defensive center and that would have been a strong team in the east.

By cp

August 12, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

This blog just pushes the point home even more of how clueless this front office is. They said Paul was too short and couldn’t shoot and Deron wasm’t in shape. Then they sign a pg who has a injury history and could never shoot. They also drafted a guy who from the reports I had seen also came to the workout out of shape. Mike Knapp couldnt see the talent in either of those pg’s so im not shocked as to why his offense is so limited and he doesn’t know how to use the bench.

I like the idea of Demarr Johnson. Im glad the kid made it back from that injury. I really thought he was on his way to a nice career before that accident. He can play the 2 and 3 spots and can hit the 3. I dont know if Mike Finley would come here. I think the Spurs are trying to bring him back. So my two choices would probably be either Demarr or James White. Im kind of bias so hey.

By Mychelfromatl

August 12, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe….what do you mean R. Morris is a “big do-nothing” center. The kid hasn’t even gotten a shot yet. First let him transition through traing camp and get some minutes under his belt during preseason before we go to making snap judgements. Sheessh!!

By MannyT

August 12, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

On the 2005 free agents, remember that we needed to get Joe’s deal done. That was the top priority. A PG was lower on the list.

Here is a free agent list from 2005.

Bloggers start your time machines…

By doc

August 12, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

kirk, do you think billy and woody had it planned out before that draft or even before a team is to have contact with a rfa? or is it the way it is done? didnt the draft come in june and all the prep work evolve on draft picks in the weeks leading up to it. do you think possibly that collins just got it wrong or forgot the specifics since it was so long ago and maybe didnt lie, just didnt quite know? or maybe he didnt have notes to fall back on? or maybe it is a given fact that teams spend a lot of time in contact with players in rfa before the 1st of july making plans and the ruse was in all along that jj was to be the point even as they went to draft ? and that in itself was a huge misjudgment in the talent of jj but the subversive BSAG copy to the media including all the media including spoken was thrown off by the gm at that time.

gee, maybe it was all a subversive ploy in which case collins was right along with our own fearless ando who also got ti right and collins somehow knew back curtain subversive info.kirk . it didnt seem like anyone said anyone lied kirk except you but what is your take on how it went down? oh and just when did you move to georgia, seems you appeared here just a few months ago … newcomer? now, would the basg do anything subversive? why would you bring up the term lie kirk. i expect people to brig their perspective and thoughts but dont expect anyone to lie do you? is that your natural take?

or gee brad maybe instead of having horford you are smart like the hornets done the due dilgience and you draft paul, buy chandler along with jj havd smith and chills in hand and hey, you have a team that could and would have competed for the top spot in the east and maybe be the champions last year. brad dont play that card as it only plays to continued absolution of incompetence and you look possibly the fool or stupid for trading horford for a ring. or brad flip it another way, now what had happened if that lottery ball and fallen say to ummm 4 instead of three? rely on luck or someone to do your negotiation. yikes.maybe it is all a part of our past right. i hope so.

By MannyT

August 12, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

mykhalc Just for you…The ASG cup series. Annoying, Brainless, Cheap, Dumb, Egocentric,…and add

clueless, useless…period.

I could go on, but now you have A-CUP, B-CUP, C-CUP, D-CUP, & E-CUP for the acronympho files.

Just to show I am a reasonable guy, when things get better, we can upgrade to Astute, Ballsy, Clever, Dynamic, & Effective along with Creative, Useful…Period.

We can have the low cups and high cups depending on the situation.

Right now we are working with the standard low end cups ;-)

By Stu

August 12, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

Sekou:

Even though Collins got there with the wrong analysis, the conclusion was spot on, the Hawks screwed up in not taking Paul or Williams. Whether JJ wanted the PG or the Hawks braintrust thought JJ could play the point is immaterial. Bottom line is either way, they picked Marvin over CP3 and Deron Williams.

By doc

August 12, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

terrell dont we all. heh heh.

By doc

August 12, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

mychell you would trade a ring for horford? you and brad got some serious man love for our center.

By vdunkndunk

August 12, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

**ASG Stinks!! Imagine Calderon in a Hawks Uniform - better than Chills in a Greek Unfiorm….

By mykhalc

August 12, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

MannyT, LOL bro. can’t wait for the day that our acronyms can stand for somethin’ better!!! but today ain’t the day, no doubt!!!

ok, i’m already pi$$ed at myself for postin’ this ‘cause it means i allowed myself to be drawn it. but what the hell!!!

one of the reasons that the JJ at PG thing didn’t work was ‘cause our startin’ SG at the time, CHILS, did NOT have an outside shot. that was the first fatal flaw!!! and notice the success (this is HAWKS measured success i’m talkin’ about) when the 2 swapped positions, as CHILS played a lotta PG from 1/07 thru seasons’ end. much better court results.

and this ain’t hatin’ on CHILS either. DOC, RAY, and myself already came to concensus about how much CHILS brought to the team!!! but an outside shot wasn’t one of ‘em!!! and if you gonna play him at the 2 with JJ at 1 then CHILS, or whomever, was gonna have to bring a decent outside shot to the game…PERIOD!!!

Sekou, time for a new blog!!!LOL

By kirknga

August 12, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

…it didnt seem like anyone said anyone lied kirk except you…????

“Collins insisted that Joe Johnson wanted the point guard job that summer and the Hawks’ pursuit of him was predicated on Johnson being allowed to play the point…..And for the record, that’s not even close to right….Acting as if Joe Johnson’s desire to play point guard led the Hawks to pass on both Williams and Paul, however, is a complete fabrication “

From Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Fabrication

Main Entry: fab·ri·ca·tion Pronunciation: \ˌfa-bri-ˈkā-shən\ Function: noun Date: 15th century

1: the act or process of fabricating 2: a product of fabrication; especially : lie, falsehood

…it didnt seem like anyone said anyone lied kirk except you… =Incorrect!

I bashed ASG in this matter so what’s the problem? I agreed with Sekou that there is no spin that can alleviate blame in this matter, so what’s the problem?

Oh, yeah, that’s right, I had the audacity to wonder why?

Strange that in a place where motivations are always questioned…motivations of ASG…motivations of national media…motivations of fellow fans…motivations of fellow bloggers ….that my asking what would motivate Collins to “fabricate” in this instance would be an issue?

I offered a plausible scenario I thought, but this has been ignored by those who have an issue.

Oh wow! I got it now. Doug Collins is actually an undercover operative for ASG!! Yes that must be it. He’s an ASG-loving, Josh Smith-hating, Camp 2(or is it 1, I forget)member, who was ordered by ASG to put a PR hit out on JJ! Surely this must be the opening salvo in the JJ extension negotiations. Egads man!

I’m not going to rehash the past and relive the past mistakes over and over and over and over again. I know it’s an everlasting favorite thing to do here and god bless those who have it within you to do so everyday, all day, but no thanks. :)

Go Hawks!!

By Hoops

August 12, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Roster Evaluation Time

1-Bibby/Law/Speedy

2-JJ/Evans

3-Marvin/Gardner

4-Smith/Hunter/Jones

5-Horford/Zaza/Morris

I’ll agree with what several of you are saying, we need a player that can play 2 & 3 to fill out our roster. I understand that several players that are on the roster can play multiple positions, but I still can see that we might be a little thin @ 2 & 3.

Is this team better than last year and do we have the pieces to make the playoffs?

By Steve Smith

August 12, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Some guards left that we could get for cheap: Devin Brown, Juan Dixon, Fred Jones, Flip Murray, Gordon Giricek.

Anyone interested in these guys?

By Mychelfromatl

August 12, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Hoops, it’s crazy how after all of these years…how young, talented and raw these hawks still are with soooooo much growth potential…I don’t know whether this lineup will continue to inspire from the (in my opinion) classic celtic’s series and make us proud this year with another run or come out and give us another classic Atlanta letdown…but I for one can’t wait to find out!!

Rise Up

By Mychelfromatl

August 12, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Another thing…If the fans are going to support the team this year like I think we will…the Highlight Factory won’t see too many L’s from the hometeam this year. Now only if we can manage to get like 15-25 on the road.

Rise Up

By cp

August 12, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

I love that we have Horford and Law but its no way im taking these two over Paul or Deron. Paul was second in the MVP voting last year. He helped turn around the Hornets franchise. He is an all star and will be one for many years to come. They guy is on the Olympic team. I would take him over the combo of Horford and Law in a heartbeat. I love Horford but I dont see Horford being a MVP candidate anytime soon. Paul is arguably the best pg in the game. Paul or Deron on this team and we are lot better even with the horrible coaching of Mike Knapp.

By ray

August 12, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

I was right, it didn’t take long at all. Heh.

By Ken Strickland

August 12, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

BY #21-I got jumped on for repeatedly saying Woodson’s obsession with vet players, especially PG’s, was the major reason BK passed on them. I wonder at what point did the SAASG decided to throw their support behind Woodson and make BK the GM in name only.

I wonder if any of these revelations will have any impact on ANDO’s overwhelmingly negative assessment of BK?

By Frustrated Fan

August 12, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

If we would have gotten Paul or Williams in 05 then in 07 we wouldnt have gotten Horford because the pick would have been PHX’s. And who says we would have been in the lottery anyway if we had Paul or Williams. Also, I highly doubt that Paul and Williams would be the great players that they are in Woodson’s limited offense. Woodson is better suited as a college coach. Anyway, its too much speculation to say what would/could/should have happened if we would have chosen one of the two in 05. We are in 08-09 season mode so lets move forward. We get it! We didn’t choose them and we should have. Nuff said!

GO HAWKS

By ray

August 12, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Guys, this really is kind of old news. I mean, we’ve known that the ASG has gotten their hands into everything. Gearon said that was the idea when they let Bernie Mullin go. If I remember correctly, his words were something along the lines of “getting more involved in the daily operatons” or something like that. Yes, they need to quit that nonsense. This should highlight a few things:

*Having enough money to run a sports franchise (or two) does not make you an expert or even a professional in that area. Being a fan does not make you an expert or professional. It’s a business, sure. But what do you do in a business? You manage things. You do what you know how to do. You do your due dilligence and find the best guys who can do the jobs you don’t know how to do. Then you go for the best you can afford. Sometimes that means paying more than you’d rather pay, because it will pay off in the end. *

What you DON’T do is allow yourself to think that you know more than you do, or are on equal or higher footing than those who have experience in this particular field. That is what is happening here. Some call it micro-management. I’ve had people say that maybe, just maybe the ASG members know more about basketball and basketball business than any of us do. They should after 5 or 6 years of it, but what DO they know?

Let’s say I was filthy rich. I’m into video games for consoles and PCs and I’m worth $720 million. I like Italian food and decide to buy out a popular Italian restaurant chain. Which part makes me an expert in the restaurant business, the $720 million or the fact that I like Italian food?

Want a better example? How about Mark Cuban? Isn’t he into computer programs and what not? Isn’t he filthy stinking rich? Doesn’t he LOVE basketball? So which part made him so smart that he couldn’t see that Devin Harris is part of the future, Jason Kidd is very quickly becoming part of the past, and Desagana Diop should’ve never been traded (because Dampier sucks and doesn’t care about playing hard)?

I’m just sayin’. These guys know whatever businesses they came from. But they don’t necessarily know this one. And to survive, or better yet be more competitive, you have to hire those that are competitive within this business. And let them do what they do best. Otherwise, it’s a waste of time. I think Mark Cuban was not smart to let a successful coach go in Avery Johnson. But at least he hired another successful coach in Rick Carlisle.

You see, being a sports franchise owner isn’t about your understanding and interepretation of the game of basketball. It’s not about knowing all the ins and outs, and details of every part of the operation. It’s about knowing who to hire to do what job (including the job of hiring the right people on lower levels), and how to manage the business as a whole.

By Greg

August 12, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Food for thought. Do any of you think that we would have had as dificult a time signing both Joshes had ownership done the right thing and brought in a new coach…say Avery Johnson. Management cleary sucks, but having a coach that the players respect would have made it easier for both of them and any other potential free agents (to sign here). It’s quite clear that most of the players have had there fair share of disagreement(s) with Woodson (Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Zaza…I could go on & on). I hate to root against them, but if the Hawks start out the season something like 3-13 can we all pray for a new coach…please.

By brad

August 12, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Would any of you want to see Horford playing for another team—-hell no!! He is the best young big in the league and will only get better. Hawks should have drafted CP3, but having Horford and Law is a pretty good consellation. We all know Horford should have won rookie of the year.

By doc

August 12, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

you are sooo right kirk when you bring out the dictionary. i look at the connotaton of words sometimes before considering the whole and exact of what the word can mean. you are exactly right but i look at it as more setting the stage or creating a story or even establishing one whereas lie implicates deception right from the start. maybe it is in degrees and shades of gray but fabrication to me not quite the same sense of total deception that a frank lie is. my bad as you pointed out. just didnt think fabrication was as strong a word as lie. thanks.

but going back to the questions do you think the decision was made before the draft and they already had jj in hand so they could have made the story as collins said it. i guess that was my main question and pardon rant. if it was posible to do legally then i gues it could be collins got it right. if they cant and it wold have been against the rules of the cba and they played kosher then collins story was wrong. again sorry for insinuating anythng but honest discourse.

ball i believe is now in your court.

myself in my naivete’ tend to think that the team played by the rules if that is what they are made the false step into not grabbing either and hoped that jj would fill the bill and wagered everything including the ownership on it. again, what is your take on it collins story or sekou’s notes who watched it closer than anyone, since you seemed to have an opinion or was it just to try and undercut someone or something?

by the way, nice volley.

also not to be a revisionist i bought into the marvin over the short paul and fat williams though he showed up down 20 pounds from his post season college form. yup, i blew that one.

By ray

August 12, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Doc, unless I’m mistaken you have hit a very raw nerve….

BA, I applaud your energy. Rest assured, Ando never backs down from a good “discussion”. For what it’s worth, he has yet to call me back (and he always does), so him “ghosting” it ain’t what you think it is. Oh no, I figure whenever he gets back to his computer from wherever he went…you two will be back at it MMA style. LOL!

Joe, if I didn’t know better, I’d say you missed Ando. Nothing like an old argument to get the ol’ juices flowing, eh?

terrell, gotta hand it to ya, you have been coming with some heat. Yeah, it’s an old argument. But we had such FUN with it! I recall that Cassell was the original target. However, that was a classic example of front office personnel not doing their homework and leaving themselves with only one possibility left (which turned out to be Claxton). That whole thing started because somebody was crazy enough to think that they could take their most talented player ,who clearly needed to play OFF the ball, and make him do the ball-handling and distribution jobs. And we went from there. Essentially, the front office put themselves in that situation….

But now we have Law. Law is working hard and he is very coachable. It’s up to Woody to try and help him do what he does best, cultivating his strengths and helping him with his weaknesses.

By doc

August 12, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

brad i love horford but i would have loved it if we had played it smarter and smarter than me and gotten paul. so yes, put me in there with folks who would rather have a championship than horford. i liked chandler and he was available for the right price and not too high either. can you imagine what this team would have looked like with paul, jj, smith and chandler playing together with chills off the bench last year especially. we might have been able to get someone as a legit vet to park himself here at a measly 4 mil a year to help out at the three spot, you think? have zaza and maybe a shooter and a late draft pick as a big even like big baby. we are there man, not sitting at 37 wins hearing our own gm telling us that the reality is we havent won sh!t or enough to sink mega dollars in this team just yet and he is right.

go hawks!

By Sekou K. Smith

August 12, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

First let me answer Mike’s questions about base year compensation and Team USA. BYC wouldn’t have been an issue in that proposed Calderon Childress trade because they were both still on their rookie contracts. I don’t know that JJ instead of JKidd makes the squad better, but perhaps JJ instead of Tayshaun Prince makes more sense. I think you need all the guards you can get in international ball. But JJ is versatile enough to play three or four spots in international ball and he’s a better spot up shooter than Tayshaun.

As for the comments made by Doug Collins, it doesn’t matter what his purpose was for saying what he said, it was just wrong. Based on fabrications about how the entire thing went down with JJ, the Hawks and that draft.

The Hawks made their draft decisions long before they pursued and knew if they would actually get JJ (the main target of pursuit that summer was not even JJ to begin with, it was Ray Allen. But that’s a story for another day) in a Hawks uniform.

That was the folly of Collins speaking on the whole mess the way he did. He made it sound like the acquisition of JJ led the Hawks to pass on those other cats in the draft. Never happened (play with the semantics all you want kirknga, but a fabrication is a fabrication, whether it originated in Doug Collins’ brain or he heard it through the grapevine and repeated it mistakenly).

Again, this wasn’t some ploy devised to stir up another few days of ASG bashing as some people might think. Few people here need any prompting on that front.

My point was more that the national media and the basketball viewing public has ideas about how things have gone down here the last four years and most of the time it’s just plain wrong. Collins was the victim of erroneous rumor and innuendo passed down over the past few years.

The folks here have paid closer attention to the Hawks than anyone elsewhere the past four years. That much I think we can all agree on. So I was calling a mistake a mistake, nothing more and nothing less.

And reliving the past is what we do around here. Ha.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

Whate ever. Frakin’ Salim freakin’ Stoudamire was just sitting on the bench…..I don’t want to talk about this D-Will, CP3 garbage. Newsflash, Salim Is STILL a better shooter than those two, just like he was on draft day. Woodson just doesn’t know how to develop players. Speedy Claxton????? Why???? All of that CRAP could have been avoided………..give it a rest.

Manny, I agree. If Calderon were here right now i’d be very disgusted with him and his spanish teammates……he’d defenetly have some explaining to do.

Ray, I was thinking the same thing about the roster:

Bibby/Acie

Joe Johnson/Thomas Gardner

Marvin Williams/Mo Evans

I don’t think we need another Small Forward.

Guys seriously, RandMo hasn’t even been given an oppourtunity….

By ray

August 12, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

A couple things the cut and paste bandit missed:

I’m not sure who he has doing his research, but they need to polish up their skills and make sure they get the story right before going on the air.

*Collins insisted that Joe Johnson wanted the point guard job that summer and the Hawks’ pursuit of him was predicated on Johnson being allowed to play the point. “He played off the ball in Phoenix with Steve Nash and in order to play with the Hawks he wanted to have the ball in his hands,” Collins said, speaking like someone who was actually involved in the process (which he, of course, was not).

And for the record, that’s not even close to right.*

Acting as if Joe Johnson’s desire to play point guard led the Hawks to pass on both Williams and Paul, however, is a complete fabrication (not to mention a figment of DC’s imagination).

The very last part from the above paragraph was missing from the original cut and paste.

I never took it to mean that Sekou is calling Doug Collins a liar. I think Sekou is saying that the idea is a total fabrication. Notice that he says that it’s also a figment of Collins’ imagination along with the idea that somebody else did the research for Collins.

In other words, Sekou is saying that Collins is talking about something he really doesn’t have intimate knowledge of. The idea is the fabrication, and he had to have gotten it from somewhere.

If somebody tells you a lie and you believe it, then you tell someone else, are you really a liar? No, you were lied to. And whether or not you chose to believe that lie is another part of the story.

Having said that, Doc is correct that Kirk is the only one to use the word “lie.”

But it’s not a big deal. Doc interpreted the article one way, Kirk intrepreted it another. And then he expounded on it, while Doc recognized the way that Kirk interpreted it, and commented on it.

I wonder if the Russians and Georgians started fighting this way….

By ray

August 12, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

Ken, you did get jumped on for that, and I remember it. I think I was one of those guys. Sorry about that.

#21=top50, you brought up another good point. It actually makes sense, because Woody was a guy that Billy brought in. Strange that later on in the tale, Billy finds that Woody isn’t the right fit (or he’s wanting to protect his own job), and tries to fire him….but the ASG doesn’t allow that. Also strange that Billy was offered an extension of one more year, but Woody was offered 2 years. That may point to other things, things that our ol’ Ando used to bring up….who knows.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I agree. I’m sick of people who don’t fully understand the whole situation coming in and spouting off their own assumptions. How long does it take to fully research the situation first???

By Ken Strickland

August 12, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

Man, NBA training camp, or something related to basketball, had better start soon. We’re starting to become way too redundant as of late. It’s gotten so bad for me, I’ve started spending time over in the uncivilized wilderness called the Atlanta Falcon blogs.

By travis

August 12, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

i can’t really blame the hawks for passing on cp3 or d. williams. hindsight is 20/20. the hawks picked what they thought was the best person for them. little did they know that these guys would become who they are now.

00 draft stromile swift, darius miles, demar johnson were BUSTS. but who knew?

01 draft JJ, Richard Jefferson, Zack Randolph, were all passed over for the likes of Kwame Brown #1, Eddie Griffin #7 and Rodney White #10. who knew?

02 draft #5 Nikoloz Tskitish and #6 Dajuan Wagner were picked BEFORE Amare Stoudamire and Caron Butler. who knew?

03 draft #2 Darko was picked over carmelo, bosh, and wade. who knew?

*04 draft * Rafael Araujo was picked before Iggy. who knew? There are no guarantees with these picks.

For marvin to have been picked as high as he was, he should have shown me more, but i can’t blame the hawks for passing on d.will and cp3. they didn’t know.

i had no idea my 1st wife was going to be the person that she became. had i known i would not have married her. i got beautiful kids from that union, but that about it.

By kirknga

August 12, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

doc, I’ll address you this time because I respect that you can admit to having incomplete facts. And you did so without any b.s. or drama, I respect the hell out of that.

Not all here have it within them to admit to such an instance.

So I’ll agree to look back again and answer your questions.

My take on the Collins story is that I don’t have enough information to satisfy my curiosity. I would like to see how he answers the question of why he said what he did. And as I’ve already pointed out, what is his motivation?

Is he our coach-in-waiting?

I don’t know if the decision was made before the draft or not. I believe there could have been discrete inquiries made which lead the Hawks to look at the JJ/Speedy combination as sufficient to meet their needs.

As I stated before, the Hawks were having the same internal debates as we were having here on the blog(yes I was here then but nobody seem to care back then). Therefore it seems that they saw Paul as too small, maybe a Mugsy-type PG, and Williams as not athletic enough to play the point at a high enough level to justify picking either at that spot.

There was a consensus in the national media that Marvin had the most upside and that long-term he would prove to be the better choice than the limited Paul or Williams. BK decided to go with the pick that seemed the safest, rather than a pure basketball pick.

He was completely dumb, so that leads me to believe there is a good chance that the Hawks knew their new big investment was going to play the point.

I believe there are certain back-channels in pro sports just as there are in the foreign-policy diplomatic arena. I can totally envision some 3rd party not on the payroll or in any capacity for the Hawks making contact with a person who been around the NBA and just happens to know JJ. Perhaps the two are long-time friends or associates and so any meeting would not raise eyebrows.

I have a friend in M&A and he tells stories of how clandestine negotiations can become to avoid leaking and loss of money and/or leverage. So why not in basketball?

I can see such an association serving as a channel for feelers, and then informal negotiations. To prove tampering, I believe it would be required to prove that either party was an agent of, and acting on behalf of, the Hawks and JJ. That would be very difficult to discover let alone prove agency conclusively.

That’s my guess. I don’t know, and I doubt anyone else here knows with certainty either unless they were privy to negotiations. It was a horrible decision by ASG.

My choice was Paul because PG was the glaring fundamental pick, though not the safest. I did not see picking another forward.

But as Brian has rightly pointed out, that mistake/pick can be seen as leading to our drafting of Horford and hopefully, Acie.

But I was wrong last year about Horford. I thought Conley should’ve been the pick for the same reasons.The jury is still out on Acie, I saw him play a lot and I didn’t think his game would translate to the NBA as well as people were saying it would.Solid player, but a starter, I don’t know?

I believe I answered all of your questions. I’ve looked back and chewed on an ASG mistake of historical proportions. I’ve bashed ASG several times now. I’ve even speculated on how I believe they could’ve skirted the CBA.

I really need to stop now or I’ll lose my camp directorship. I mean somebody has to play ASG agent provocateur on this thing right?

Ok, back, to my “estrangement”.

Go Hawks!

By kirknga

August 12, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

Oh, ok, so it;s Doug Collins not lying, but repeating an idea that is a lie?

Pay no attention to the man behind the microphone!!

LOL!

That’s good, I almost choked on my apple from laughing so hard. I wonder if I could get the author’s permission to submit that little essay to The Onion?

By doc

August 12, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

ray, thanks for pointing out that technicality. does that mean i get a tko? yeah ray, it went completely over my head that sekou had the audacity to call a national reporter out and implicate him a liar to boot. and not get his side of the story before commenting on his peeve at the point …. missed it completely.

didnt it seem interesting that in a random, literally, uncontrived blog of say thirty paragraphs someone took exception to or focused in on one word, fabrication? it was taken to the point he led in with his own twist of the word, though accurate if taken to the extreme of the word, to ask “why would collins lie?” to start off his comments and follow with “oh i am not saying sekou is wrong.” guess i am just asking exactly what are you saying and why?

oh yeah, i guess anyone is allowed to comment as to the veracity of theirncomments, i know it is important to some.

aslal, randmo willl have his opportunity and horford and zaza will give it to him. sund says the kid has some skills but needs to work on defense. yup end of the bench. fouls to give role or coat brigade to me. one other thing is the hawks seem ready to play some folks in d league. drum roll please …. i see this as a positive intention of the basg to begin to spend some more money beyond the cap to field a better team. da daaa, giving credit where credit is due. no bashing here.

go hawks!

By ray

August 12, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

I should have known your ignorance and hate would win the day, Kirk. But then, what could I have expected? Frogs hop, scorpions sting, and liars….well, they just lie.

By jhan

August 12, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

doc - you are on fire today! keep it coming.

By ray

August 12, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

And no sense pointing out any of the lies or “inconsistencies.” Even I can’t type a post that long…

By hawkfan

August 12, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

hey, hawks fans i saw somewhere that claimed the hawks to be the worst franchise in the nba, do you think so? here’s the link: http://www.layupdrill.com/2008/08/10/the-worst-franchise-in-the-nba/

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Kirk, Is what Doug Collins said a fact??? Hell no it’s not. But what Sekou said is, and almost everyone on this blog has know that story to be true b/c we wi9tnessed it in real time.

Doug Collins and the rest of those reportes don’t give a damn if it’s right or not, just so long as it sounds good. As evidinced by ESPN’s EXELLENT reporting of the Josh Smith situiation. And his ‘Horrible’ relationship with Mike Woodson. Then they top it of by spinning the situation when they find out they were wron INSTEAD of just apologiseing.

By doc

August 12, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

thanks kirk for the time, just read over it. nicely put. i have often said it is not as much about a fabrication as how we perceive from our own perspectives or hologram even agenda and share as well. again points well taken.

another interpretation for fabrication is creativity and to some degree i, we do it and it makes for more fun and revelry when it is just that and for yucks. this is for entertainment as much as anything and not meant to be personal.

i also thought with the signing of josh that camp was out and inferred it in the blog as soon as it happened. i see it is that we are all on the same team.

as far as the estrangement, your choice. peace.

go hawks!

By ray

August 12, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Doc, TKO it is.

Looks like my initial attempt at peaceful and slightly humorous mitigation was a resounding failure. No problem, I like shooting from the hip better in this type of instance anyway.

By Samuel

August 12, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Cuz,

Did we really have to go there? Can’t we talk about Modern Pentathlon or something.

Anyway, I like our team. I’d rather have Bibby than Calderon. If we had drafted Williams or Paul we might not have Al, so there. I’ll take that trade off. Horford for Williams.

By ray

August 12, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

No, hawkfan, I don’t really want to feel that way about the organization.

I explained earlier what I feel the deal is. These guys probably do mean well. But some of the worst things done in history probably had the best intentions (well, in some cases).

These guys didn’t make their money or their living in the business of the NBA. It’s a dream they had (well, at least that Gearon Sr and Jr had…per Jr’s own words in an article months ago). Two things:

1)Stop messing with things you don’t have that much experience with.

2)Hire somebody who has a GOOD reputation for knowing how to handle those things and has a philosophy that you are cool with.

3)Let that guy do his job. Give him everything he needs. If he fails you time and again, let him go and get someone else.

4)Evaluation should be constant, not micromanagement.

And no, I’m not an expert in business. Nor am I dealing with facts. Only opinions.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

The spell check police are going to send the hounds after me lol. Speaking of that, where is Samuel anyway?? Did someone call a timeout in the dodgeball game??

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

Ha!! I spoke too soon heh.

By ray

August 12, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

And before you take it wrong, no Kirk, I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about all the people who put stuff out there that isn’t true. That’s why I couldn’t possibly post anything that long (much as some might not believe it).

As I said earlier, I thought it was a matter of your interpretation of what you read, not necessarily the deliberate choice of words.

By ray

August 12, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

I have no idea what “The Onion” is…but it probably isn’t worth my time.

By ray

August 12, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Tweeeeeeeeet! Dodgeball game is back on….

Ariose…that was for you.

By doc

August 12, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

to continue on kirk i see we disagreed on paul as i didnt see it and would have put my money on roy the next year to make up for it. we both agree that acie might be a reach and i preferred stuckey since two years in a row we had missed the mark. acie didnt turn me on and called it vanilla. the move to get bibby might be translated as a no confidence on acie in the short term like this year and in the end cost us in the long run with chills. stuckey would have given us the stud we needed and saved the bank a few dollars.

kirk, i think you are tired of my bashing but you know what?, as a hawks fan dating back to the petit years i am a bit tired of the mess ups the last five to eight years, so tough love i will continue to pour on until the climate changes or call it bashing as you put it. ultimately we both want to see the hawks win.

i prefer to think it will be the players that get it done and not the owners who i feel sometimes want to be the story. mega drama queens with egos that hopefully will be kept in check because they opened it up like a can of worms to become the basg, their right. so my bias is with the players they have to get it done and be treated well to do it, not played with as though they were pieces of meat. it wont work in the end. bk knew it and should have been given some cred for it.

sorry, since i have been here form the beginning i dont remember your present handle nor the tone. for a long time i was an apologist for the basg but the mess ups continued too long to not get tired of it all. if you are not careful kirk you too will go to the dark side, unless you are on payroll and if so, i wouldnt expect you to do otherwise. heh heh.

peace bro,

go hawks!

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 12, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

(fair warning, has a tinge of rant to it, but all this ‘i missed that too’ stuff is getting annoying)

I hear you on this “hell, I missed that one too, who knows- it’s a crap shoot, etc” but seriously it is not any of our jobs to determine this type of stuff. We are not the architects of teams, generals of strategys, founts of philosphies, etc. GM’S and Coaches are.

BK knew what the strategy and plan was for each draft- I venture to say he created it. It is his job to evaluate the talent. To say that “we all missed that” is not only poor, it’s also erroneus. Damn Portland must be lucky- us unlucky, Detroit must be lucky- us unlucky, San Antonio must be lucky- us unlucky. Clearly they have the ability to spot and draft talent that may not always be conventional or clear. If it is so clear then we should higher someone with such vision.

Obviously Utah knew what they were doing to trade up to get Deron. Portland did too trading to secure Aldridge and B Roy. The list could go on, but hopefully you all get the point. It’s the GM’s job to evaluate talent, yeah a trace of luck is in a lot of situations, but you have damn NONE OF US WORKS FOR THE HAWKS SO OUR IGNORANCE SHOULD NOT EXCUSE THEIR IGNORANCE WHEN THINGS BLOW UP. We have the luxury as fans to be wrong and still rock with it.

That said, I’m not going to excuse all moves I perceive as bone-headed henceforth because “they know more than I do”- we hated it when BK was so smug, but when you miss decisions consistently one begins to wonder “how hard could it be?” What makes a professional in any sense (outside of the obvious drawing a paycheck) is the ability to do something well that others can’t. I may never have thought to give max $ to Joe- good move, but I damn sure could have not drafted Shelden at #5. That’s what makes us call for people’s jobs- believing we could do them at least as well as they are. I’d like to think a monkey could have coached the ‘96 Bulls or even the ‘08 Celtics. They won the title though so they did what was expected of their job. For Avery Johnson, Stan Van Gundy however apparently they didnt do their jobs- hence unemployment. Unfortunately that logic seems to have applied to Woody- he didnt have much so he’s doing as well as people can expect- at least the ones signing his check…

RISE UP

By kirknga

August 12, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

I should have known your ignorance and hate would win the day, Kirk.

And before you take it wrong, no Kirk, I’m not talking about you.

From Wikipedia:

*The Onion is “parody newspaper”.It claims a national print circulation of 690,000 and says 61 percent of its web site readers are between 18 and 44 years old per the 2008 media kit. Much of its humor depends on presenting everyday events as newsworthy items, and by playing off of commonly used phrases, as in the headline “Drugs Win Drugs War.” *

By ray

August 12, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

As far as the deal that was on the table trading Childress for Calderon, people have to remember…this was before TJ Ford’s second injury. This was before Horford accidentally decked him. At the time, Toronto still had TJ firmly at the helm, and Calderon was still not held quite in that high regard. After TJ went down again, Calderon got another chance to strut his stuff, which he did.

So yeah, we could’ve had the guy. And he would be a lot cheaper than Bibby, while putting up numbers that would either be comparable or better.

By mykhalc

August 12, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

#21=Top 50,1stBallot, tasty!!!

By ray

August 12, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

I meant the “lying” part, Kirk. Don’t play dumb. You’re way too convincing. Surely technicalities do not escape you so easily.

The Onion sounds like it has similarities with my “Daily News” posts. The intent is the same at least.

Playing off of commonly used phrases, eh? I wonder if that’s like stating the obvious.

By kirknga

August 12, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

if you are not careful kirk you too will go to the dark side, unless you are on payroll and if so, i wouldnt expect you to do otherwise. heh heh.

Ok why people continue to ignore that I have said many times now I set my expectations low from the moment of ownership change??? A multi-person ownership group or a car salesman were the choices.

Call me crazy, but I don’t believe you’ll find either in the Forbes Top Whatever list, like you would a Ted Turner or a Mark Cuban or Paul Allen, etc..

I could see from the get go that the chances of the Hawks were going to be among the NBA big spenders were not good. I also know that Atlanta is a fickle sports town and revenue was going to decrease during the rebuilding furthering even more the chances that there would be a very limited budget.

I don’t go back to Petit, but I do remember the Hubie Brown days and how hard the scrapped every night. I remember Hubie cursing too. Ollie Johnson was my favorite for some reason.

Apparently others set their expectations higher when ASG took over and are apparently suffering a wound of reality. That’s your own faults, not mine!

I’m not to blame because you all had your high expectations unmet. You guys have to deal with your disappointment your way, which is apparently to complain about everyday.

I can’t b*h that long but that doesn’t mean that I’m pro-ASG. Because my expectations were low, I can now see the good and the bad.

By ajw

August 12, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

First lesson is to never listen to anything Doug Collins says. He is the worst broadcaster in television. I was so happy when he coached the wizards with Jordan, because I knew I wouldn’t have to listen to his awful voice and his dumb comments. He is always bringing up old news everyone has already heard a million times.

I never liked Marvin as a #2 pick. So far I haven’t seen him do anything worth being drafted. D Williams is a leader and proved it at Illinois. He controlled the whole team through a nearly undefeated season. Chris Paul had a serious character issue that year after punching a guy in the nuts during the acc tournament, which I believe was the same year Artest was suspended an entire season for fighting. They had a good reason not to pick him. Hopefully we can trade Marvin soon for someone that is useful. He just plain sucks. Marvin’s a bust!

By Clyde Sampson

August 12, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Good comments guys but there is just one problem. The Spirit Group ain’t listening. Them boys are stuck on stupid and its gonna take a good slap in the face to get them to see the light. So until then ROLL TIDE!!

By Clyde

August 12, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Good comments guys but there is just one problem. The Spirit Group ain’t listening. Them boys are stuck on stupid and its gonna take a good slap in the face to get them to see the light. So until then ROLL TIDE!!

By Clyde

August 12, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Oh Yea I said it when Marvin was drafted but Marvin is just another Roshawn McCloud.

By ray

August 12, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

Oh damn Clyde, he ain’t that bad….Marvin’s much better than that.

Hey, been to Rio lately?

By cp

August 12, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

I think Calderon is a much better pg at this stage than Bibby. I like the things Calderon brings to the table. Bibby is a nice pg but when he is off he is off like few others.

By doc

August 12, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

kirk, i was kidding with that statement you high lighted. it was a joke played on us all and that s why i ended it with the heh heh. it is a joke. i could care less if you go dark or not, so many have with aj leading the way for a year, manny t putting on the cape and myk out in san fran playing the fool with it as well. it is about sense of humor and i set my sights not low but what i feel is realistic, i dont spout crazy trades that are somebody elses fun. i guess as far as the expectation thing, we are very similar in that regard.

i dont set expectation and am not disappointed but it is based on what is in front of me. when others are trashing folks because of their expectations for wins, i dont. called it right on target the last few years so i have my perspective. likewise, i am not going to idly conjure up a reality that says the basg on down havent underprerformed and continue to do so with the loss of chills to their nucleus this year. if they needed to trade him after signing him then with his contract in hand they get bidders if that is what they needed to do or say instead of it is necessary because of salary implications next year, which is one reason that has ben floated out there. that is short sighted and i cant see it for anything else.

look i want to believe in the guys and will probably have season tix in hand saying i do. bottom line and the best line someone put on here was it took billy 5 years to turn a 32 win team into a 37 win team.which i had made that observation, hall of fame in its dry chagrine but funny. that mantel also hangs on the guys above him, too. the guys above him have to be involved in the decisions to some degree. look around and see other teams doing it from the bottom up and seem to have reversed their fortunes quicker.

there is a fine line between no expectations and complacency. the way you stick to your guns i imagine you will have set some expectations., you dont seem complacent. too many teams on the same economic strata as us are successful in smaller markets so it doesnt take a gazillionaire to make the tough and right decisions. please dont play me that one either as you can look only to the knicks franchise to see how poorly entitlement and riches works.

go hawks!

By ant banks

August 12, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

So what Doug Collins expressed his opinions You guys do it every day!! Why analyze it what he said? What if the hawks had picked cp3? What if the Titanic missed that ice berg? What if Portland had taken MJ? What if Jordan had missed that shot, as a freshman, in the championship game? What if Bird had beaten Magic in the NCAA tourney? Who can’t look into the past and predict who should have done what?

ken you are right. it is very redundant. I said several posts ago that people keep saying the same “ish” over and over.

By doc

August 12, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

clyde, they are listening a lot more than you would ever believe. too many folks appearing as guests to tout the basg when the public persona needs a kick in the right direction. just cant be coincidental. at least kirk stands in there, not saying he is a plant as i see him having as much fun over on mib bog as he does here unless there are two of him. at the rate he goes there might be, dont take it literal bro it was a joke and one of envy. anyway some dont stick around and are hit and run types. most can spot them a mole away.

yup i meant it that way.

here is to the mols of the blog !!!!!

go hawks!

By ray

August 12, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Dear Kirk,

Thankyou so much for telling me about “The Onion”. That stuff is pretty funny in the way that it is used. That, and it gave me so many good ideas (you’re hating yourself even now for telling me about it, aren’t you?). And here I was figuring you for the British humor type.

By Clyde

August 12, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Ray I’ll be going in October. I was down there 2 months ago. Wanna go I got a buddy pass for you.

By Samuel

August 12, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Ant B,

Good thing Al Gore hadn’t invented the internet back then. Can you imagine Ando and his groupies after Portland passed on MJ for Sam Bowie?

By ray

August 12, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

…and the same people keep following behind and complaining about the people who are complaining….

It’s one big circle. The only way to avoid it is to not say anything about it. Otherwise you perpetuate it and brand yourself a hypocrite.

I’m no good at avoiding it, myself. But that’s by choice.

By doc

August 12, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

how about a white heterosexual? will that mess up things too much? check back to monday early am on the last blog clyde, i left you one i think with your name on it, called it junk. heh heh

excuse me manny t, are you nudging me out of the way?

By Smirknga

August 12, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Is there any truth to the vicious rumor I heard that Kirk wanted the Hawks to sign that Irish big man.. O’bession?

By ray

August 12, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

What’s more redundant?

1)People expressing hindsight.

2)Ant Banks coming behind them and saying that they’re expressing hindsight.

3)Samuel coming behind Ant Banks and using his post to take a cheap shot at Ando (who hasn’t even posted on this blog yet, so what are you talking about Sam).

1. Me coming behind Samuel and saying “Ha! Caught you taking a cheap shot!”

Yep….it’s the Hawks blog….

Heh, heh, heh!

Smirknga, I think I know who you are….and you’re going to get me blamed for being you…whoever you are…LOL

By Ken Strickland

August 12, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Well Hawks fans, all of the RFA drama is over with. Smooth has been resigned and we are close to having a complete roster for camp. Our starting lineup comes back intact, and we’ve added some nice pieces, although we’ll miss Chills. I believe we’ll see individual improvement in all of the players, as well as team improvement, assuming they’re given an opportunity to perform.

Now, it’s all up to Woodson to manage the players, their mins, and let them do what they do best, RUN. Let’s face it, that’s something he hasn’t shown an ability to do so far. I certainly hope some of you are right about him being under the gun and having to produce is true. If he comes through, the Hawks will make the playoffs again this yr.

By HB Ando

August 12, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

BA, I haven’t read any of the 121 posts from this new blog, so there may be more to your point. But I’ll address a few things from your post on the last blog.

First, how is it you define me as wrong, in predicting we won’t have a payroll in the $65-67 million range, when the payroll for next season hasn’t been finalized? I’m kind of scratching my head on that one.

That being said, I have to say I respect that you obviously wasted significant time seeking out the archives to find a few, rare, meaningless, examples of me being wrong. I DID say I didn’t think they’d make the playoffs. I DID say they wouldn’t make a meaningful move. I DID think there was no way they’d go seven against the Celtics (I truly underestimated just how little respect the Celtics had for the Hawks, going into that series).

I’ve said, many times, that I have no problem being wrong, and saying so. And it will always be more fun for me to predict the future, than focus solely on the unchangeable past (though I know I spent a major chunk of time b*** about Billy passing on Paul, given that my desire to see the Hawks choose Paul, pre-draft, has been factually confirmed by Sekou Smith, here on this blog).

I’ll stand on my overall record of being right far more frequently than wrong, when it comes to the Hawks.

Anyone who mistakenly believes I ever advocated taking Noah with the 3rd pick, over Horford, or anyone else, with the third pick, is simply wrong. As someone (I apologize for not remebering who posted it on the last blog) noted, I advocated trying to move up with our second first-rounder, and acquire the rights to Noah.

Sam, there’s nothing more ironic about your characterization of Euro bigs as soft, than the fact that you idolize Rasheed Wallace, one of the most athletic, 6’11 big men that has ever graced the NBA. Here’s a guy that lazied his way to 6.6 boards last season, just below his career average of a measly 6.9. Here’s a guy who has the talent to be a hall-of-famer, who was 40th in the NBA in rebounding last year, behind “soft” Euro’s, Okur, Dirk, Ilgauskas and Biedrins.

Sam, your biases are so transparent, it’s kind of sad.

BA, with all the time you spent looking for a couple of obscure examples of me being wrong, you forgot to respond to my direct challenge that you wager me on whether the Hawks will make the playoffs this season.

Put your money where your mouth is. Let’s agree on an honest third party, agree on an amount, and let the winner take the cash.

Responding to THAT challenge doesn’t require an exhaustive review of the archives. Just some nuts, and the honesty to pay your debt when you lose the bet.

By ptrepdaa

August 12, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

what do you guys think about bonzi wells,pargo or livingston. with either of those guys added i think we would be deeper than last years team.one last thing.if we would have had l.wright on that playoff team thing could went in our favor.

By HB Ando

August 12, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Sam, It wouldn’t have ever been fair to hammer Portland for that decision. Portland had Clyde the Glide, so that role was pretty damn well covered. Completely different scenario than the Paul situation, when we desperately needed a franchise point, and we already had Childress, Smith and Harrington on the roster, when we took Marvin (who’s upside projected to…..Al Harrington).

Ken, you’re suggestion that Billy’s decision to pass on Paul/Deron was driven by Woody, or ownership, has already been dismissed by Sekou’s overview of the events surrounding that draft decision. What part of Sekou’s explanation did you miss, regarding Billy’s assessment of Paul, pre-draft?

Joe, your suggestion that I mistakenly held Billy as solely responsible for failing to make key trades is simply unsupportable. My issues with him were always with his draft mistakes, and, as Doc has pointed out, those differences of opinion, on draft picks, were always articulated pre-draft, rather than hindsight. And, as I’ve said many times, I’ve always viewed the fact that my preferences, for draft choices, were less an indication of some kind of brilliance on my part, and more of an indictment of Billy’s lack of skill, given tremendous resources, from a scouting and player assessment perspective.

Joe, for the millionth time, I never failed to acknowledge the impact of ownership, and their responsibility for problems with the team. Again, I’m the guy who suggested, many times, that the fans might actually be better off if Belkin ended up with the team, questioning whether the remaining partners had the resources and/or expertise, to lead this franchise.

My focus on Billy was always predicated on my belief that he was solely responsible for unforgiveable draft mistakes, and that, as an employee, he was subject to be replaced, which isn’t something you can do with owners.

BA, you’d have to come up with something a bit more compelling to think that a couple of meager instances of me being wrong would some how scare me off. I’m just not that interested right now. Far smarter, and more insightful, people, have taken me to task (Joe, for instance). If you feel frisky enough to seek an ongoing battle of wits, have at it. But I’m still neither impressed enough, nor respectful of your your limited, soft attack, to waste my time checking the blog for you next shot.

Put that cash up, son, and then we can do a little verbal jousting……

By HB Ando

August 12, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Another point: someone highlighted (again, I can’t remember who) that Horford WAS a five, and used Barkley as a guy who succeeded playing out of position. First, Barkley was a 4. Period. And an absolute freak of nature, which typically is reason not to use as a reference point for other player assessments.

More ironic, in the merging of the Horford as a five/Barkey reference, is that during the all-star festivities, Barkley couldn’t stop talking about how great he thought Al Horford will be, AS A POWER FORWARD. Repeatedly he discussed Horford’s future as a star 4 in the league. Not once did he even touch on the idea that Horford’s future was as a five.

The thing that’s really frustrating about this blog is that people’s inane comments force other folks to repeat themselves, as the same twisted misrepresentations are spouted, over and over again.

So, again, just because Horford is talented enough, and has a big enough heart, to step in and compete at the five, doesn’t mean that it’s the best way to optimize his potential, or the potential of the Hawks.

Do you want Horford to be a very solid center, or an all-star power forward? Do you think there might be some credibility in Barkley’s firm belief that Horford could be one of the league’s best PF’s, for the coming decade (forget about what a nobody like me thinks)?

The idea of Smith, as a four, neglects some pretty obvious factors to his game. He has absolutely no post-up, back to the basket game. He’s a floater and a slasher. Everything about his game, on the offensive end, says “3”, with the very glaring limitation of his outside shot. Similarly, Marvin is a classic 3.

Some of you folks can shout it till the cows come home, but the Hawks will never be legitimate contenders, in the East, if they stay with an imbalanced, under-sized, frontline. Gotta balance this sucker out. And the solution can never be Zaza at center, and Marvin off the bench. That’s just clueless.

By ptrepdaa

August 12, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

i’ll start off by saying i eventually came around to respecting what j chill brought to the table.with that said let me jump into the jest of my comments.the drafting of j.chill was a huge mistake from the start.when we should have either took L.deng or A.I.2. can you picture j.smoove running one wing and a.i.2 on the other with jj spotting up beyond 3 land.thats draft mistake #1.with that draft resulting in landing either of the foremention players their wouldn’t have been a decision to make on marvin williams.don’t get me wrong i like marvin.i think he is the key to us moving up in the east.however,if we had a.i.2 the choice would have had to be between cp3 and dman williams.gravy on the duck would been monta ellis instead of salim.thats all for draft mistake #2. o.k. we when go from suspect draft to maybe it could still workout draft(i.e. m.williams blossoms into 20ppg/7or8 rpg ).now with all the big work done.all we needed to do was take a.bynum.

By BA

August 13, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

That ghost bit, Ando, was just something to get your goat…I didn’t REALLY believe you were hiding! And sorry to dissapoint you, but I’m just not a betting man. Not with cash (which, with my kids and all, there’s a certain shortage of that). But I’d gladly wager a beer or two, even if I lost it would be a kick to meet the great Alpha Ando. Maybe I could meet up with you all during a (playoff) game this year (blog ace Ray,the venerable doc, etc.).

It didn’t take more than thirty minutes to find that stuff, I kind of knew where to look already. And for the record, wrong is, in fact, WRONG. You can dismiss it as “meaningless”, or “rare”, but you asked for an example, and that’s what you got. If you have no problem “saying so” when you were wrong, then own up to it. None of this “meaningless” nonsense.

I don’t need your respect. I have no interest in “impressing” you. I don’t know if the insults are genuine, or part of your “persona”, but it’s somewhat unbecoming. I have gone back and forth with the best and the brightest here for close to a year now, and you’re the only one that has the need to classify me as somehow inferior to you.

I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum. I’m a longtime Hawks fan. The Hawks were mine before these jokers bought them, and they’ll be mine after these fools are gone. I believe the Hawks will be back in the playoffs, certainly. I think they’ll win 40-45 games. That doesn’t make me stupid. That’s my opinion. You’ve got yours. I predicted they’d take Boston, you predicted a sweep. Am I really any dumber than you? I don’t think so.

Oh, and the payroll thing, you’re trying to weasel out on a technicality. Even if they didn’t sign another player, this payroll is already higher than anything YOU prognosticated.

By ptrepdaa

August 13, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

sekou,to finish my i wish we had, we should’ve had, team.that starting 5 would have a combo of either cp3 or dman williams at point,jj as our 2,with some combo of j.smoove ,a.i2,al horford and bynum in the middle.you would have one of those guys coming off the bench(i think horford would bring the must energy off the bench no 2nd string 4 or 5 could stop him)throw in m.ellis off the bench and you have a 1-7 thats a young running monster.if billy would have done half of this where would we be?

By BA

August 13, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

Josh Smith is 22. He’s ahead of the game, as far as I’m concerned. He’s only going to get better. He was second in the LEAGUE in blocks last year. He’s an excellent power forward.

Horford will play at center because that is the best lineup Atlanta has. Averaging a (near) double-double in your ROOKIE season is more than “very solid”. And again, he’s only going to get better.

Ando, did you watch the games last year or what? Did you really expect that a team this young would have a ring by now?

They took Boston to SEVEN! Boston won the TITLE! That’s contending! I know it doesn’t fit your personal agenda, but this team took a huge step forward last season and there’s no reason they can’t improve upon that this season.

Besides, Detroit won with an undersized frontcourt. It can be done.

By ptrepdaa

August 13, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

sekou,i wrote all of say.to all of you people that are sad to see j.chill leave.you must also think billy knight was a good g.m. i’ll give him credit for removing the bad players and contracts(he turned shareef into rasheed which became the 17th pick which became j.smoove )sekou,i know if we had the team i talked about we would soon be in luxury tax hell soon.to that end so will portland with all their young studs.however that not a problems.no sir sekou those are great options.let me know what you think.i know that team would be one of the best in the nba.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 13, 2008 2:07 AM | Link to this

“Roster Evaluation Time

1-Bibby/Law/Speedy

2-JJ/Evans”

Haha if Woody ever plays JJ and Evans at the same time we are gonna have a dy-no-mite backcourt….

Ba-dum-ching. I’ll leave y’all with that.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 13, 2008 2:22 AM | Link to this

ptrepdaa, I agree with prety much all that you’re saying except about Monta Ellis.

1) He Injured his knee right befor the draft………stock plummets, not to mention that he’s a serious twener and very skinny. He also didn’t show well in pre-draft camps.

2) Ellis wasn’t going to get picked ahead of Louis Williams (Who had been the #1 prospect for that draft class since he was in the 7th grade). Williams was also the #1 ranked HS player in the nation. And our team (I went to HS with him) was ranked 7th in the nation. Ellis just burst onto the scene with a 40ppg clip that season, that’s how he got drafted. If Lou ever gets the minutes you’ll see whose better. Thats why 45 teams passed on Ellis.

3) He’s not better for this team than Salim. Ellis is two inches taller(6’3) and he’s still pretty skinny. Salim was a proven college vet and pretty big(a lot bigger than Ellis is).

4) The Hawks already had Joe Johnson so there was no need to draft an undersized, skinny shoting guard with a bum knee. The Hawks needed a Point Guard.

5) Unfortunately during his tunure with the Hawks (A complete was of three years, I might add) Salim was alienated by woodson, and left to warm the seats for carreer backups like Tyronne Lue and Anthony Johnson…………WTF??????? And Royal (wHERE tHA f@#$%ck did he come from and why is he here) Ivey…Go Figure….

I DARE SOMEBODY TO JUSTIFY THIS OBVIOUS CRIME AND LOGICALLY EXPLAIN THIS CRAP TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT RATIONAL THINKING WAS INVOLVED IN THIS?????? WHERE IS THAE SANITY????????AND THEN THEY JUST LET HIM GO WITHOUT RECIVING SO MUCH AS A PENNY TO SHOW FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!

CAN I GET A WITHNESS?????????????

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 13, 2008 2:40 AM | Link to this

IGGY Gets 80 mill and stay put in philly

………We SERIOUSLY got smoove for a bargain.

By BA

August 13, 2008 2:55 AM | Link to this

Philly’s going to be a powerhouse this year, Ariose.

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 3:06 AM | Link to this

can the HAWKS modify the contract with additional cash to include a 6th year that only a RFA’s original team can offer??? or does it have to be the ‘exact’ offer than was signed for the GRIZZ???

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 13, 2008 3:22 AM | Link to this

BA, I Agree

Really Funny Jalen Rose Story.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 13, 2008 3:47 AM | Link to this

Nope once accepted by Smoove, terms of the contract are final.

By roan st

August 13, 2008 6:25 AM | Link to this

Ando, as I recall on the last blog you called BA a liar for claiming that you prefered noah over horford. But if my memory serves me right you did want noah and YI over horford. Nobody is questioning you’re intelligence just this rediculous notion that you are always right.

By Sekou K. Smith

August 13, 2008 7:55 AM | Link to this

A very important and quick aside to the conversation at hand:

Someone with knowledge of the situation involving the Childress-Calderon deal has informed me that not only did ownership not balk on doing the deal but that Knight was the one opposed to trading Childress for a what at the time appeared to be a backup point guard in Calderon.

Interesting …

By Darrin "The Vent King"

August 13, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

For once I’m going to forget the b-ball talk and just pray for Zsa-Zsa. KEEP YOUR HEAD UP HOMIE!!!

GO Pachullia!

By mountain jim

August 13, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

Hello Sekou - I heard the deal was Childress + our 11th for Calderon, which if true is a lot different than just the even swap deal you are speaking of.

By khao$

August 13, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this

Dag Sekou…now the question is, which source is telling the truth? The party that said Knight wanted to make the trade or the party that says he didn’t? I wish Billy Knight was a better and more open communicator. Other than Bernie Mullin, he probably has some earth shattering info on the going on’s in Hawk’s land.

By ptrepdaa

August 13, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this

sir link alot,i would still go with m.ellis over lou williams and salim. i know that lu is your boi and i can see you are down with salim. i like both guys. however, if contracts ( signed by ellis-lou not signed salim)mean anything,most gm’s agree with me.look at what m.ellis got.i think he doubled up lou money wise.next m. ellis caused b.davis to leave.he wouldn’t have been resigned next year(star player).b.davis knew they were going with ellis. are you telling me lu caused allen iverson to leave. ok i think u feel me now.

By RealSquawk

August 13, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

Wait Mr. Smith which one is it? did Knight want to do the trade or not? If he hadn’t would we have heard about the trade since he has to approve.

Another question for Mr. Smith is what were the two trades on the table for JOsh Smith.

By Mychelfromatl

August 13, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Damn Iggy for 80 million…I agree with BA that Philly going to be nice but who knows how Elton Brand’s going to come back from the that bum knee. I still like our same starting five back from last year though. With summertime improvement from Big Al, J Smooth, Marvin (Word is dude has added 13 pounds of muscle!! Hopefully he can average 18 ppg 8-10 reb this season, JJ (Dude gonna be sick this yea!! It’s contract year), and a Healthy Bibby, I’m ready to see where this goes. Also with more seasoning and one more peice to the bench (Atlanta Spirit call Mike Finley Now!!!)…

Us Against Philly Comparison

C - Big Al > Sam Dalembert - Even though Sam averaged a Double Double last year. 10 ppg 10 reb…Big Al is 5 years younger, more powerful, averaged shade under double double 10 ppg 9.7 reb and only getting better.

PF - Josh Smith >>> Elton Brand - First and foremost Elton Brand is nice but returning from a bum knee. J Smooth…7 years younger is quickly becoming one of the leagues budding star averaged 17 ppg 8 reb 2 steals 3 blocks.

SF - Marvin Wiliams <<< Andre Iguodala - Don’t know if this is where Iggy will start this season but he’s better than Marvin.

SF - Marvin Williams > Thaddeus Young - Marvin has better numbers all the way around with 14.8 ppg, 6 reb 2 assist. Thaddeus numbers 8 ppg, 4 reb 1 assist.

SG - Joe Johnson >> Andre Iguodala or Lou Williams - Joe Johnson = top 5 in the league at his position.

PG - Mike Bibby = Andre Miller - Take your pick, both have similar numbers from last season. It will be nice to see how a healthy Mike Bibby takes to this team.

By Sekou K. Smith

August 13, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

The old two sides to every story thing is always in play when you’re revisiting history the way we do around here. Both sources are extremely credible in my eyes and it’s a matter of whom you choose to believe. Once again, it doesn’t matter who did or did not want to do it to me. The problem is that nothing got done.

While he was in office (so to speak) Billy Knight and I agreed to disagree on a number of things (who they did and did not draft, how they played, who played, etc.). But that’s the problem with GMs that don’t like to speak publicly; they leave so much to the interpretation of others.

I’d love for Knight to give up all the details of his tenure and tell his side of the story. He could write a steamy tell-all book. But I don’t see that happening anytime this century. And as terrell barron and several others have pointed out here, it’s a trivial pursuit at this stage of the game.

Most forward thinking people are much more concerned with where things are headed as opposed to where they went wrong in the past. The only reason this whole issue came up is because of erroneous comments made during the USA-Angola game in China.

I’m not big on the ASG bashing that has become a cottage industry around here. I’ve pointed out where I think the ownership situation has hindered the franchise in the past and and I think things will obviously run a lot smoother once the whole thing is finished.

But I’ve never questioned their commitment or dedication to creating a successful team for the fans at Philips Arena and beyond, only their methods (which is a fair critique of any organization trying to do what they are doing).

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 13, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

ptrepdaa, No I hear you. Monta DEFENETLY deserves every penny he got this summer, based on his production.

But as far as teams passing him up for guys like Louis Williams and Salim in the draft, AT THE TIME was the right thing to do based on all of the factors listed by me above.

Also, I Will say that Lou and Salim both don’t get the PT that Monta Gets. Also they don’t play in that Don Nelson system that boosts our offensive stats. I was not knocking Monta, but if those two ever get the kind of PT that he’s seeing, I think we would see completely different players.

But yes, I feel you, Monta EARNED his cash and right now there’s not anyone who would argue wiith his ability in comparison to the other two noted. I just hpe the other two eventually get the oppourtunity that ellis has.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 13, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Sekou, I hear you. But seriously if we didn’t give up Chills for Calderon…….man, that’s all I can say. BUT if Bibby is healthy, he’s better than Jose on any day. I’m all for Calderon BUT he’s NOT worth Horford and Law together…….

I’d say with all of the termoil in this organization, we’ve managed to do o.k. On paper we have one of the most talented starting lineups in the Eastern Confrence.

Hopefully if Bibby plays well, we can get him to the All-Star game for the first time in his career.

By Mike

August 13, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

I agree with Sekou that while the ownership/management has made mistakes, people here and across the country have been way too unfair.

Everyone should calm down a bit about Calderon. He’s good, but he may be overrated. He’s not a good defender, and he also just signed a big contract, the kind of money that would have kept Childress here. I bet in a year or two that contract will look terrible and they will be trying to trade him (see Mo Williams). You can only have so many people on your team making that much money.

And to all those who say the ownership is cheap, notice that the payroll will be around $65 million this year when the roster is filled out. That’s near the middle of the league, over the cap, and not far from the luxury tax limit — for a team that has not been over .500 in several years. That’s not being cheap, though you may disagree with how they’ve spent it. They are trying to manage the cap long term. If Childress had taken their above-mid-level offer they would be around the luxury tax level (about $71 million). As it happens, they replaced Childress at a bargain, got a discount on Smith, and thus have some flexibility to deal with Marvin and Horford in the future.

Finally, get over the Chris Paul thing already! Is anyone else excited about Marvin working on the 3-point shot? If he can hit it consistently it will open up so much space for Joe, not to mention for Marvin to attack the rim. He’s so young that he could still be a beast. It’s ridiculous that everyone still talks about that draft so much. It’s not like Marvin was a bust (like, say, Shelden Williams). And Paul and Deron Williams do have weaknesses. Quit griping about a draft that could have been better three years ago.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 13, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Mike, Finally some Sanity on the matter lol, I still think the ASG should have went all the way and gotten us a NEW COACH to go along with this roster.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 13, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Woah!!! Update, No Go on the IGGY deal. 76ers GM. Cofirms that ESPN artilce is not true.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 13, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

You know what, i’m glad we don’t have these guys on our squad

Interesting Trade Rumor

By Mychelfromatl

August 13, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Yoooooo guess who’s now making news worldwide Yep yall boy Jose Calderon, as he and the Spanish Olympic team posef for a Racist Photo disrespecting China!!! Hit the link to see for yourself.

http://www.nicekicks.com/spanish-basketball-team-poses-for-racist-photo/

By Mychelfromatl

August 13, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Yoooooo guess who’s now making news worldwide Yep yall boy Jose Calderon, as he and the Spanish Olympic team has posed for a Racist Photo disrespecting China!!! Hit the link to see for yourself.

http://www.nicekicks.com/spanish-basketball-team-poses-for-racist-photo/

By Mychelfromatl

August 13, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Yoooooo guess who’s now making news worldwide Yep yall boy Jose Calderon, as he and the Spanish Olympic team has posed for a Racist Photo disrespecting China!!! Hit the link to see for yourself.

http://www.nicekicks.com/spanish-basketball-team-poses-for-racist-photo/

By Joshua

August 13, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Devin Brown was mentioned early on in the summer and Bonzi Wells is a trouble maker but would balance Evans defense with some potent offense . Luke Jackson was good on the summer league team as well and of course they’re still more free agent options such as former Hawk Ira Newble Kirk Snyder I think is still out there and Fred Jones . But I’d put money on Brown everyone wants the veteran though . The Hawks starting five can produce offense but it can’t play much defense other then Horford and Smith . So getting a NewBle or Brown may be the key . A guy to help Evans against a team like Boston with two scoring threats on the perimiter . Right now the rotation stacks up Horford Smith Williams Johnson Bibby Evans Pachulia Law IV with junk minutes to Morris Claxton and Jones after the first eight there isn’t much and with a tougher eastern conference I think the lack of depth will hurt

By Joshua

August 13, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

The ? mark with the is all the ? marks Can Bibby bounce back ? Will Marivn Williams step up ? How will Josh Smith play now ? Will Randolph Morris and Mo Evans be big producers or will they fail to live up to expectations . Will Acie Law Improve more . These questions will determine the Hawks season .

By ray

August 13, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Well, it appears that the blame could’ve been on Billy and NOT the ASG. There, I said it before someone else would’ve….

Ariose, not to make it a point of contention, but that Horford & Law is not equal to Jose Calderon thing is oversimplified. I think you know that though. But we really don’t need to get into that as it is worthless past hashing, more worthless than the usual stuff.

As for passing on Monta Ellis being the right thing…well, as memory serves me rather well, his now ex-teammate Baron Davis had the exact same thing happen to him. He sustained a knee injury less than a year before he was drafted and the same stuff came up around the time of the draft. Same with Kenyon Martin. It happens, and depending on the medical analysis and the history/profile of the player himself, you don’t pass on the guy just because he had an injury. But, some teams did, and I think it was for other reasons.

Much as I know you like Salim and don’t see many differences between him and Monta, I gotta say this. Monta is a 20ppg scorer in the western conference. He would definitely have had an impact here. But that’s the past. Here’s the future: can he manage to do what Monta has done on another team? That will be the determining factor. Not that he has to score as much or get as many assists, but for him to be even mentioned in the same sentence, he’s going to have to produce big time. And if he can’t on another team, is it just another bad situation or is he not as good as advertised?

We all know he was harshly misused here. I don’t know if he and Woody just couldn’t get along, or if other things were involved. I saw him as a gunner coming off the bench in the right situations to help spark the offense, if nothing else. It never happened, and I think that had a lot to do with Woody appreciating defense a lot more than offense. But that’s not what you use Salim for….

Which worries me about Gardner. This kid can score. So can Jeremy Richardson. That’s what they’re here for, they are role players. Woody better get this right.

By ray

August 13, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Well excuse us for griping about missing out on an all-star pg while paying over $15 million a year for a pg who never made the all-star team…..

Having said that, Marvin Williams has never been called a bust by anyone with sense, and we NEED him to be better than ever for more than one reason. Fact is, his development either makes the present team better, or he opens up more possibilities of moving assets to become better. And that doesn’t necessarily mean trading HIM….

By ray

August 13, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

joshua, actually you should add JJ to that list. His defense is superb and should never be overlooked. He’s just so quiet and everybody pays attention to his offense.

In Evans we have a SG who can both shoot and play defense. I think we need another that can shoot and handle the ball a good bit.

By Samuel

August 13, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Ariose,

You are straight up trippin if you think Salim is even in the league with Monta Ellis. I know you and Salim Fan may like the guy but he Can’t carry Monta jock. Period

The guy is unemployed, Right?

Louis Williams may eventually come close but Salim has way too many weaknesses(no defense, no handles, no hops, not a consistent shooter, too small).

I’ve seen Monta Ellis play since he was a 7th Grader and the guy had NBA Allstar written across his forehead every since. It’s absolutely crazy how teams passed on a player that good. Crazy.

Ellis is probably of the top 5 combo guards in the league and Salim is what, saking groceries at Kroger or somewhere. Give me a break!!

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, i know you ain’t hatin’ but man, i’ll be sooooo glad when BIBBY quiets the nay-sayers this season!! i’m surprised he’s never been named an all-star tho. but then again, when all he’s done in his career is make his teams BETTER thru the season and playoffs, then i guess that still does not quite cut it!!! repeat after me…the cat played injured all last season!!!!

well the good thing for all that doubt what BIBBY brings is that, you get to see him play for his last big contract. so you can bet he’ll bring it and you’ll be glad he’s in a HAWKS uni when it’s all said and done…IMHO!!!!

By BA

August 13, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Don’t pester Ando’s revisionist history, Roan St. It’s too hard on his fragile ego.

By Joshua

August 13, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

yeah I think your right and Smith actually isn’t as good as I said he’s more of a weak side shot blocker , He’s shawn kemp , one knee injury and his career is over . Without his hops J-Smoove is crap . I really would like to see how Horford would produce in his natural power forward position . 20-10 or 15-10 at least .

By SB

August 13, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Sorry Joshua……. Smith blocks shots on the ball also. Smith also has decent post moves when given the chance. Smith is a decent shooter up to 15 feet and also is perty quick off the dribble. His hops make him special. but he’s not crap without them. Kemp…. his failed career had alot more to do with his eating and Child having habbits than his knee.

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Rashean McCloud? His kids come to my wife Dentist office. lol!! And yes he’s driving a Benz. The Hawks are probably still paying him?

By Mychelfromatl

August 13, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Joshua, is you smoking rocks!!! Comparing Shawn Kemp to Josh Smith…c’mon dog you could’ve found a much, much better player to compare to J-Smooth! My God.

By ray

August 13, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc,

No I’m not hatin’. And I like Bibby plenty. I was just putting things into perspective for somebody who doesn’t seem to understand why the griping is going on.

By the way, Bibby was awesome. In Sacramento. Under Rick Adelman. Who knows a thing or two about offense. Injuries or no, I am concerned about what Bibby can do in Woody’s “system.” Have you forgotten already about how Woodson said he can’t wait to get Bibby used to his “system?” I know the dude’s got skills, but does Woody know how to use them the best way they can be used?

Funny, people keep saying how CP3 and Deron wouldn’t be so good under Woody. They’ve got some of the same skills Bibby has. Nobody thinks though, that a system is a system. If Woody does things in a less than optimal fashion, then it won’t matter if it’s a veteran pg or a younger pg. Ask Anthony Johnson, who was all the time rolling his eyes during huddle-ups and timeouts, and actually walked out on practice once (remember that?).

By travis

August 13, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Did you guys see how much Philly gave Iggy? 80mil/6yr. I think that Josh “cheated” himself, based on what everyone else got. JSmooth should have signed the qualifying offer sheet and became a free agent at the end of the season.

I mean I am glad that he signed and all, but jeesh, ASG look like geniuses by only paying him 58mil when everyone of his contemporaries are getting 72-80mil

By I.MUS WRITE

August 13, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Whoah!!!!….. What a suprise as im walking in from a late lunch- Josh Smith and his dad are here talking with my boss.

I couldnt really get to many ?’s in becuz my boss was hugging his nutz so tight………he did tell me that he is glad be in atl for the next few years, and also that we just signed Flip Murry…..

Josh looked as if he has been hittn the weights -he looks about 10 pounds heavier than last year…..Jeezuz his dad is like 6’5 260-MACK TRUCK

YEAH!!!! Flip Murray is a good pick up _One more big and we’re set……… GO HAWKS

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Ando, I’m going to have to disagree with you on the Marvin Williams thing. You said his upside was compared to Al Harrinton. By who? MOST EXPERTS PROJECTED MARVIN WILLIAMS TO BE A STAR. I never heard the word STAR when Harrington was selected. As a matter of fact, I’d take h Marvin over Al right now, and Harrington is 28 while Marvin is at the tender age of 22. Check this out: Look who’s 1st on the list and then check out CP3’s. http://www.docsports.com/2005-nba-draft-prospects.html

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Ando, I’m going to have to disagree with you on the Marvin Williams thing. You said his upside was compared to Al Harrinton. By who? MOST EXPERTS PROJECTED MARVIN WILLIAMS TO BE A STAR. I never heard the word STAR when Harrington was selected. As a matter of fact, I’d take Marvin over Al right now, and Harrington is 28 while Marvin is at the tender age of 22. Check this out: Look who’s 1st on the list and then check out CP3’s. http://www.docsports.com/2005-nba-draft-prospects.html

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, you KNOW you don’t have to sell me on how bad WOODSON is!!! point made brah!!! you are right and that reminds me to ALWAYS remember who’s drivin’ this bus!!!! damn!!! i’m depressed AGAIN!!!!

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Damn, they killed Randolph Morris in that column. Luckily he stayed at Kentucky for a couple of more years.

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

yeah travis, SMOOVE just had the all the wrong things happen that affected his worth this off-season. BRAND then CAMBY!!! and you really can’t argue with either of those moves made instead of SMOOVE for those teams. the stupid a$$ BASG lucked out and as fans we lucked out!!! well at least those of us that wanted him to remain a HAWK!!!

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

I.MUS WRITE, hope your boss doesn’t read the blog!!!LOL

By Melvin

August 13, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

IMUS, I hope you are right about the FLIP Murray siging. I think he would be a good pickup for this team. He’s a good combo guard that will add some versatility to the team.

Let’s look at our backcourt now. Bibby/JJ/Acie/Speedy/Evans/Murray/Gardner.Seems like we have adequate dept to there. Not sure we have the shooters that we desperately need. By adding Murray, he should be able to provide some scoring and I suspect Evans will play more 3 than 2…

One more big and and it’s time for training camp…

By khao$

August 13, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

I.MUS, I hope you’re right. I think it would be a pretty good pick.

By $ Bill

August 13, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Just heard the Hawks signed Flip Murray!

By rainman

August 13, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

no more bashing mr sund. i love the moves the man is making now. with what little he has to work with just look at this in my mind an upgraded roster. bibby/a.c evens/flip both better offenesive players than chills jj/marvin smith/morris/ horford/zaza other than in the post we are set no more mario west or cats like that, that should not even be in the league we got a real team now its just to bad billy didnt like his dumba$$ brother woody with him.

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Flip Murray. Sumd is still at work. Get off his d… lol !!!

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Flip Murray. Sumd is still at work. Get off his d… lol !!! Ther’es that 2 guard help we needed. Now Evans can back up Marvin.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 13, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

“I know you and Salim Fan may like the guy but he Can’t carry Monta jock. Period”

First of all, I thought SalimFan is Ariose? Also, Salim ain’t close to being Ellis, but he’s not garbage either. Put him in the right system where he can concentrate on the one thing he does well and he can be a solid contributor. There are many players like him in the league, on good teams, who contribute positively (see Eddie House on the NBA champion Celtics for example).

If the Hawks did sign Flip Murray that is a good signing this late in free agency. He has his flaws but he will provide some outside scoring ability off the bench. We still need a big guy, and I still wouldn’t mind the Hawks doing the Bibby trade I proposed on the previous blog to get some more depth in here.

By Melvin

August 13, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

KUDOS IMUS you broke the Flip signing before Sekou… I guess that makes you our lead spy… Uh Ray could you give Imus an offical title. I’m not too knowledgeable in law enforcement or espionage…

By niqueluvr

August 13, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Flip signing looks legit - it’s on Hawks.com: http://www.nba.com/hawks/index_main.html

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

I meant Sund, and There’s. Had a long night at work. lol!!

By honest_abe

August 13, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

long time…

funniest quote i’ve read in some time…. coming straight from the mouth of the nba genius himself SAMUEL “i’d rather have bibby over calderon anyway”

oh ya calderon is one of those euro sissies that can’t ball… heh

moron.

By I.MUS WRITE

August 13, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

MYKHALC…… itz all good -even if he did read the blog he would probably laugh and say sumthing funny….We have a really cool work relationship…

Cant believe im sayn this but I kinda agree with rainman- Mario’s my dude but with our new additions i dont see a place on the roster for him or J rich. We have proven guys with big time NBA experience.

Gotta admit I was p** when we lost Afro man but Evans /Murray are a much needed upgrade off the bench,Guys who can really score-Now when JJ is on the pine we can actually stay in sum games.

Sund gets a pass from me…..As Terrell said get off his Dyck.

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

i’ll say this much…the team IS FINALLY growin’ up!!! these are the kinda vets that will make a difference, no doubt!!! now if we only had a REAL HC!!!???!!!

By MannyT

August 13, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

I wonder how much work Flip had to do to join this team ;-) It looks like Sund may have actually made an effort to get him if this article is legit. This is a good example of using a relationship as Flip was a part of Sund’s Sonics in the Ray Allen era.

rolling back to things I missed in the past day…

Samuel* Sorry I wasn’t on when you swung things back to the Olympics. It’s good to hear someone throw some love to the obscure Olympic sports! Expectations are very low for USA in this one, but you never know.

I love the fact that kirknga and ray can come together over The Onion. I think it’s where the Mad magazine crowd goes after they become adults. It’s great stuff in my book.

#21=Top 50 Rant on!!! If you have ever seen the movie, Man on Fire, there is one thing that cracks me up about your post. Notice what happened each time one of those guys told Creasy (Denzel Washington) I am a professional.

doc Definitely not intended to nudge you out. You provided a top notch, prime example, I just put up a multiple option link. Besides, it worked with the whole negotiation example thing that you & jhan brought up on that last blog.

mykhalc Josh’s contract sticks and there are no changes allowed. It cannot be renegotiated or extended for at least 3 years. Even then, the Hawks would have to be under the cap to renegotiate the deal…unless the CBA changes to say otherwise. If they wanted to show him a drop more love than Memphis, they needed to do it before he signed the offer sheet.

terrell Laugh about Rowshown McLeod all you want. He is in that Keith van Horne category—not officially retired, so still available to be traded. He’s just waiting for Boston to hook him up ;-)

BWAF has some work to do now that he has vets on the bench.

By bill

August 13, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Puhleeze…bringing in Flip gaurantees ASG a playoff slot!

By Melvin

August 13, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Here’s too Organic Growth with minor additions… If the Hawks are going to be successful and return to the Playoffs in 2009. I think the following offensive numbers will do it…

JJ/JSmoove/Marvin - combine for 55-60pts

Bibby/AL - 25-30 pts

Bench - 20- 25 pts

Total Avg: 95- 115 pts

I think if the Hawks pts per game avg falls within the above total range than they could very well return to the playoffs next season….

I know wishful thinking…..

Go Hawks…

By Khao$

August 13, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

I.Mus, although I don’t post all the time, I’ve been on this blog from day one. You’ve done something I don’t believe has happened on this blog (I may be wrong)…as a fan you broke the news! Before ESPN…before Sekou…before CNNSI…Props to ya!

By SB

August 13, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

I MUS. WRITE…….. How much do think Smoove weighs in at?

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

MannyT, thanks for that info brah!!! good to know…

By I.MUS WRITE

August 13, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Sb- I would say around 240

Mykhalc- I feel you, now that we have an upgraded squad Woodcock is the only thing that scares me…….

By MannyT

August 13, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Now Sekou can turn his attention to that dominant Michigan Olympic Team. Boy can they eat ;-)

As for the demise of Mario & Jeremy—why? We are somewhat sure that Salim isn’t returning. They need extra bodies for camp, and I doubt that the deals to the newbies (Hunter and Gardner) are guaranteed at this point. I can see these 4 scrapping for the bench slots. Note I did not put RandMo in this bucket. While he’s on the bench, I don’t see him fighting for a roster spot.

…and they could keep all 4 of them if they want to carry 15 players. I expect some of you to hit that select a seat on the 23rd.

Now that the roster is full, I can get ready for Olympic fencing tonight.

En Garde!

By MannyT

August 13, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

myk To be clear, they can offer him an extension after 3 years, but if I’m Josh, unless it is a deal that is better than I expect as an unrestricted free agent, I’m not even discussing an extension.

(It’s the renegotiation that is not allowed if you are over the cap.)

I do wonder if his deal has an opt out after yr 4. I would think so, but you never know.

Now that Woody has 4 guys older than JJ, let’s see what he can do. They are all guards, so I’m guessing small ball.

BWAF

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

yeah Khao$, I.MUS WRITE has definitely pulled off a first in blog history!!! SUPER FLY SUPER SPY!!!LOL

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 13, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Cleveland trades for Mo Williams…

By ray

August 13, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Damn. Gotta hand it to Sund. Flip Murray is a good pick-up. I was hoping we’d get a combo guard (guy who can score on his own but also deal with pg duties as necessary). We got one. Sure, I would’ve liked to have had a guy like Finley, but I didn’t see that in the cards anyway. Again, good pick up by Sund.

Melvin,

I.Mus was formerly a leading intel (intelligence) analyst officer. He now retains the rank of Captain and will take up his new post as chief of intel division. Congratulations are in order, I.Mus has done an exemplary job!

By SB

August 13, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Thanks I Mus…………. So dose this mean we don”t have any room to sign S. Livingston.

By Sekou K. Smith

August 13, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

I’d say that Flip Murray fills the description of ANOTHER GUARD (mentioned above) perfectly.

He’s got the size and skill set to swing between the point and shooting guard and off the bench he could be a scoring terror. The Hawks have needed some of that instant offense that he can provide.

Nice pickup. Very nice.

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

MannyT, totally agree with ya on SMOOVE not touchin’ it!!! he becomes a free agent at the perfect time in his career…well provided that he keeps progressin’ like he has, which i’d put money on!!!

By ray

August 13, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc, thanks for the kudos. I think that with this latest signing, we’ve taken steps that we’ve not taken in years. I think that between Evans and Murray, we’ve shored up spots 1 through 3 better than we have. I mean, this allows us to move Claxton if it’s beneficial. Not only that, but we aren’t stuck relying on Claxton as the only veteran guard with pg capabilities…especially if Bibby gets moved (before or after the deadline…and this still remains a possibility..think about money, not production). Evans is our veteran guy at the 2 and 3.

I’d still like to see one more veteran big signed. It may or may not happen, who knows.

MannyT, I wouldn’t say that Solo and Mario are locks to lose their jobs. However, they will have to work like hell to keep them. Veterans Evans and Murray are guaranteed because they were signed. Morris is probably in the same boat. J-Rich will also have to fight like hell to keep a spot. Hunter is hungry, have no doubts about that. I figure Gardner is, too. Salim will not be here (hope he does well wherever he goes). It will be interesting and probably more competitive than it’s been in the recent past.

Good CRAP, I think. Better than anticipated, anyway…but we’ll have to wait until training camp and the subsequent reports from Sekou.

By RG

August 13, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

I like the signing of Flip Murray and Maurice Evans. I believe those two signings are an improvement over our bench from last year. Now Id like to sign a point to let Ace have some competition for the backup spot. .

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

I.MUS WRITE aka SUPER FLY SUPER SPY aka AGENT TRIPLE-S!!!!!LOL

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

another thing not to overlook NOW that SMOOVE is back on-board…SMOOVE and EL GATO GRANDE will WHIP MORRIS into the player that he can be…IMHO. there is NO WAY SMOOVE allows MORRIS to be any kinda slacker on the same team…too much home-grown ATL pride!!!

By ray

August 13, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Murray’s the real deal. I recall he was a healthy part of that Indiana squad that nearly made the playoffs last year before folding and handing it to us.

There ain’t no two ways about it:

Woody has two healthy veteran point guards and a talented youngster behind them.

He has two veteran shooting guards who can both play small forward.

He know has a proven combo guard that can play both spots and score like it’s going out of style.

He still has Horford, Smoove, and Marvin, all of whom are coveted young talents and figure to have improved on themselves even more from last year.

He still has Zaza, and now has a bigger/stronger option to Solo in Morris. I still think he could use a decent veteran big man.

He has a 2 year contract and the blessing of Gearon. I’d say he’s been dealt a good hand this time around (and even his biggest fan Samuel would probably agree). It’s on him. Recognize the pieces and how they fit. Develop and make use of the bench.

To me, 38 wins won’t be an improvement (and I refuse to concede the higher numerical value, as it is insignificant). Unless we experience significant injuries, an above .500 record is what we should have based on last year’s results alone. Do I think the lineup is still unbalanced? Yes. It would take a major move to balance it. We’ve been through this before. In the meantime, the squad we have should be several wins better. Right?

By OhhBoyy!!

August 13, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

We signed Flip Murray!Whoopie!! Yeah! Yawn….. Man whatever dude. Why is Atlanta ALWAYS the last stop for players in thier so called PRIME. Veteran Players with Playoff cred my eye. This goes all the way back to Eric Dickerson. He came in town in a Limo and left on a Bus. This was supposed to be an ADD on offseason. Its looks like we are in rebuilding mode. We lose Childress and for what. Add Evans who is soooo good he is on his 9th team in 7 years. We add Morris who is sooooooooo Good he doesnt even goto Summer League, but couldnt get 10 mins a night on the sorry azz Knicks. Added Hunter and Gardner who will just scare the hell out anybody they match up against. Yeah Right. ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD we Keep WOODY! Billy Knight was a bad GM??? Yall aint seen nothing Yet. I was ready to call Sundy a puppet to help him out a little. But he insists that these moves are HIS because he knows the value of player who CAN and CANT help the team to be .500 or Championship level. Note to ASG, I could have did a better job FOR FREE!!! Was it soooo FRIGGIN HARD to resign JSmith and JChilldress and get 2 Quality Big men and 1 Quality vet shooter?? I say it again Yippie Yah Yah Whatever Dude…..

By Samuel

August 13, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Way to go Rick,

The Hawks are quietly building one of the toughest teams in the East (outside of Boston). Teams are gonna hate to step foot in the Highlight Factory this year. Flip Murray is as tough as they come and can also score in bunches.

I don’t believe Solo will loose his job. He will get more time on the court. These cats: Hunter, Garner and Richardson are just here to have enough to scrimmage. I can’t see them making the team, unless Speedy or someone else is moved. As long as it’s not Bibby, JJ, Josh or Al. I’m good!!

By ray

August 13, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Think you’re wrong, Samuel. Ya boy Woody didn’t show Solo much love last year. If Morris is even halfway motivated, he’ll eat Solo’s lunch. But then, I just don’t have your “trained” eye….I’m only a professional blogger…heh heh

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

BOS made a HUGE mistake not resignin’ POSEY…HUGE!!!

By kwooden1

August 13, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

I agree with everyone on Flip, he’s very aggressive, he finishes at the rim and plays good defense. I remember him dunking past JS once during a game, but JS got him back later.

GO HAWKS!

By RealSquawk

August 13, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Is that playoffs i here!!!!

By jhan

August 13, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Another sound addition to the team. I feel much better about $$ I spent on season tickets.

Are the owners finally letting their GM run things, or did they finally find a GM that thinks like they do?

Either way I’m glad something is finally happening!

Go Hawks

By Tyrone Corbin

August 13, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

Flip Murray, don’t downplay this one, he adds bench depth.

On April 8 last season in Indiana, he scored 20 points and 10 assists on us. Bibby had 2 points on 0-8 shooting.

By chris ragan

August 13, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

I saw Ronald Murry play West Ga in the 2002 division 2 elite 8. He could shake, bake and head fake. He had a great game but was out played by a kid named Redd (not micheal redd). He was the division 2 player of the year. I think he was a d1 transfer. I love the move. I am excited now. We finally made a guard pick up. Wish we could get Darrell Armstrong also. Another vet guard off the bench. GO HAWKS

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Manny, I was’nt laughing at Rashawn. I just thought it was funny, cause I just saw him the other day at my wife’s office. And did’nt I say he was driving a 500 sel ? Why would I laugh at that? lol!! And by the way , HIS JOB STATUS SAID RETIRED. Where did you get that info? And one more thing, Get off Sund’s d…! lol!!

By HB Ando

August 13, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

BA and Roan, you guys take me way more seriously than I take myself. BA, my ego isn’t fragile. Roan, I’m not always right, nor do I believe I am. It’s a blog, kids.

Roan, I did not rate those guys in front of Horford. You are mistaken to state that I did.

We’ve been throught this issue before, but I think some of you get more of a charge out of having me represent a villian, than actually shooting the %$*# about hoops.

There are enough folks here, who’ve been here every step of the way, who defend that reality that I’ve been right way more than I’ve been wrong, over time.

But I’ve said a million times that I’d rather be wrong about this franchise, and have a team I could believe in, than be right about a perpetual doormat.

BA, there is no splitting hairs on the issue of team payroll. Until the math is final, from a pay out standpoint, calling me wrong for insisting that the Hawks will not pay out $65-67 million, in team payroll, is completely unsupportable.

If you were the first guy to mistakenly take the position that my participation here was of some primary significance in my life, then I might have to drag up the energy to defend myself. But I heard the same nonsense from guys like TB, years ago.

This blog is a silly-a* diversion, for an admitted hoops junkie. It’s a forum to express my discontent with the management of my home team.

I hate to dissappoint my angriest critics, but if my regular absence from the blog, over the past 3-4 months hasn’t been clear evidence of just how low this conversation is, on my list of priorities, then I don’t know how to let you down gently.

I don’t have to pump up my place here. The very fact that I can leave, for days or weeks at a time, and come back here, review the posts, and see repeated references to me, tells me all I need to know about my impact.

To be honest, I both appreciate it, am and confounded by it. Why do a handful of you guys give so much of a damn about what I say or think?

On to something far more relevant: the addition of Flip Murray could well set the table for the inevitable trade of Bibby. BA, are you going to fade away when the ASG trades Bibby, sooner than later, because they simply won’t commit to increasing last years’ payroll, by more than a measly million or two?

Bibby, Speedy, Law, and, now, Murray? That’s a classic log jam. And a pretty solid predictor that Bibby is now replaceable, as they simply will not pay that $65 million payroll.

Stick around, BA. The lesson isn’t over yet (and, let me just say that you’re unwillingness to put your money where your mouth is speaks volumes about your credibility).

By HB Ando

August 13, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

BA, in my humble opinion, your 12:30 post exposes some serious limitations to your insight. Pointing to Horford’s productivity does not support an argument for his playing center. I already acknowledged that he exhibited both massive talent and tremendous heart, in playing out of position. But, as folks like you, who want to argue points with me, are prone to do, you conveniently ignored the jist: Horford can be a solid center, or a superstar PF.

Why should the Hawks’ fans be supportive of a plan that minimizes Horford’s potential, as both an individual, as well as maximizing his ability to make this team truly competitive?

Same issue with your very flawed perspective on Josh Smith as a PF. His shot-blocking numbers do not make him a PF. Again, you ignored the points I made regarding his utter lack of a post game, or his inability to play with his back to the basket. Those are requisite skills of an NBA power forward. AK47 has spent the last five years as a top shot blocker, and no one has ever confused him with being a power forward.

Look, these are matters of opinion. So we don’t have to agree. And no, dumbass, I obviously wouldn’t have expected the Hawks to compete for a title last year, especially given the completely reprehensible draft choices that Billy made.

I just don’t believe a Hawks team which projects to stand pat on a front line of Horford, Smith and Williams will ever compete for an Eastern Conference championship.

Fortunately for me, I also don’t believe I have to worry about it, as I’m confident that those three will not represent the Hawks starting front line for the long haul.

Time will tell. If they do stand pat, this season, then they won’t make the playoffs with that front line.

By RA

August 13, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Okay,

Every time I’ve tried to send a blog tonight, something weird’s happened and it gets lost. Maybe I’m not meant to blog tonight, but if this gets through, Moore, Smith, Bradley, even old Furman Bisher, I’m calling you all out. I’ve heard a million reasons this summer why my team is doomed, how ownership has failed the team and the city. Well, from where I stand, my team looks pretty darn good, but I don’t know. Gentlemen, I’ve heard all the reasons that I can’t believe in this team. Between the four of you, maybe you can give us all some reasons why we should.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 13, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Ando, Murray may be 6’3”, but he is definitely, positively not a point guard. If we’re gonna make a personnel change under the assumption that he’s gonna play point guard, we might as well just shift Joe back over there. I agree that one of our PGs, probably Bibby, is gonna be traded by the end of the season, but it’s not gonna be because Murray is expected to take his place.

By Crazy Diamond

August 13, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Even if Sund is a better judge of talent, if thw ownweship does not allow him to pull the trigger, like they may have in th Childress deal mentioned, we are so screwed.

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

BIBBY stays before CLAXTON IMHO…

By Astro Joe

August 13, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

I like the Murray signing (would love to know how many years he received). I recall that Flip plays a little bigger than his 6’3” listing.

Back to Calderon, I too was a fan. But when Bosh went down last season, dude showed that he is truly a one-trick pony. The Raptors were desperate for scoring and Calderon was not only unable to put the ball in the basket, but he wasn’t nearly as effective running the show and the team suffered. I recall commenting on the value of a “lead” guard vs. a pure point guard at the time. With the lack of quality big men throughout the league, you almost have to have a PG capable of scoring to replace the lack of offense in the post. 15 years ago, easy points were available from guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Admiral, Shaq, Malone, etc. Those points haven’t been exactly replaced by the Bogut, Chandler, Dalembert, Haywood and Biedrins crowd. So those points have seemingly been handed to the PGs and without them, offenses tend to suffer. I won’t judge Bibby based on his 35 games with the Hawks. I’m anxious to see what he brings to the table this season. I think we’ll be thrilled.

Oh and one more thing, don’t expect Marvin to score 3-6 more points and Bibby to score 3-6 more points and Smith to score 2-4 more points and Horford to score 2-4 more points and the Hawks to score 125 points a game. Individual player evaluation needs to be based on team success, especially on a team with more than 2 offensive weapons (including Flip).

By cp

August 13, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

I hope Woodson uses his bench this year. I also hope he has added some pages to the 2 page playbook he had last year.

I like Solo but I think Hunter might surpise some people and turn out to be a better player. They guy is athletic and had length. He is only 6’8 but I think he athletic ability and standing reach will help him a lot. He has to put on some weight though. He finishes well and seems to have a nice jumper for a pf. If Solo does not come back improved he might be out of a job. Richardson had one good game in the SL and Gardner looked pretty good. I think it might be over for Mario. I like the Flip signing although I thought we needed a guy who could play at the 2 and at the 3. I hope Woodson doesnt make Acie sit and watch again this year since he has the vets he so loves. We have to develop this kid to see if he is going to be our future pg.

By Don!

August 13, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

I appreciate your desire not to bash the ASG undeservedly — but they really do deserve it in many respects.

The ownership and management of the Hawks and Thrashers is among the worst in any sport(s) — and taken as a whole have cost themselves millions of dollars, and the city untold amounts of lost prestige.

Mentioning Atlanta in pro basketball circles gets you either a laugh, or a bit of sympathy. This in a town that has proven to support the team when a quality product is put on the floor. Atlanta is time and again mentioned by many NBA players as one of their Top 5 cities to visit — yet we can’t attract a significant number of them to even consider us as an attractive place to play unless we go well over market value.

While some of these problems existed before the ASG took over — they’ve compounded the bad image of ineptitude that hangs over the Hawks like a bad rain cloud. When it gets to the point where the Clippers and Knicks seem to have a better plan for the future than our Hawks — that says a lot … and none of it good.

We can’t have 20/20 hindsight on all the mistakes of the past, either in free agency or the draft — but the biggest mistake of all was in allowing a flawed ownership group to take control of our NBA and NHL franchises.

More than not drafting CP3 or Roy, or the mismatching of our coach to the talent on our team — the poor management of the past few years has hurt the sports fans in this city more than anyone can truly measure.

Unfortunately, there’s no real way to hold the ASG accountable — unless we want to go the way of the Sonics or the Flames (again) and become a second-rate sports town.

Atlanta fans deserve better ownership of our NBA and NHL franchises. It’s not bashing the ASG to call them inept — it’s the well-worn, and unfortunately well-deserved truth.

Later,

Don!

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

FLIP brings attitude too. can’t get enough of that for this young team!!!

By Ando is a Liar

August 13, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

In case anyone is wondering, just read this:

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/hawks/entries/2007/06/27/theroomis_spi.html#comment-1355426

“My last comment, pre-draft, on who to select: I’ve been a proponent of Noah since the get go. I still believe he’s the center we need if we CANNOT make a trade for a veteran big. I DO NOT believe he’s in the mix for this front office, at 3, so if I have to choose between Horford and Yi, from a realistic standpoint, I’m going Yi.”

By MannyT

August 13, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

terrell I was not giving you a hard time about Roshown. Just noting that he was still eligible to be in one of those trades (and get paid) based on the details of that ESPN article link.

I did give Sund credit for finally doing a deal that looked proactive. I don’t think it’s fair to give him a starting grade until we get to the end of October. He started slow, but he’s making progress.

I’ll look for you and Samuel in the My Boy Rick section of Philips ;-)

BWAF

By Billy Hoyle

August 13, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Fella’s

Here is a little taste of what we can expect from Mo Evans and Flip. Chilly, I wish you well, but after watching these videos, I’m not losing sleep over the fact you’ll be playing on the other side of the world.

Flip highlight video, the man can take the rock to the rack, no question… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3G9hWlvcD8

Mo Evans highlight video, the guy is a true baller, no nonsense, great athlete http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtkr7nazogg

I’m excited, Are you?

By doc

August 13, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

man is that a way to balance out a roster? we have gone from two journey man point guards to one starter, one back up, one journeyman and a second year that we dotnt know if he is going to be a stater or a back up. rags to well almost riches.

where does law fit now? with four points he cant be too comfortable a it shows clearly he isnt the man unless …. a trade is coming. he has gone from savior to d league or jacket squad. as cleveland has now filled its spot we will have to wait to find out where bibby will land in february. er, that is if we are not in the running for a spot or law is definitely the man of the future.

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Wow! How the tunes have changed around here. lol!!!

By mykhalc

August 13, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

CLAXTON is the on the way out!!!! FINALLY!!!

MannyT, how does it work if he is released and picked up by a team at the beginnin’ of the season??? won’t the new club be responsible for most of his salary since it’s the start of the season???

ANDO, i think you been busted on your HORFORD claim bro!!!oooppps LOL

By Samuel

August 13, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Was that an honest abe sighting? I stand by my statement that I will take Bibby over Calderon. Ando, you just can’t fathom the fact that we could have a roster like the one we got right now, huh! I know it’s hard to believe but I believe we will keep Bibby.

By the way, yo bucks definately took a step backwards today. Mo Williams for Luke “Lee” Ridenour?. Salary dump I guess.

Did yall see them Toddlers from China smoke the US Girls team last night?

Coach K and the Boys got Baby Shaq and Company in the morning at 8am. Yall better get some sleep. It’s gonna be an ole fashioned street fight. I’m puttn on a pot of my favorite: Green Tea with a Ginger Twist. I’m out.

GO HEAD, RICK SUND!!

By HB Ando

August 13, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

So, based on that direct quote, did I state that we should take Noah, at 3, over Horford? Because that’s what I was accused of saying……

But, again, BA, and, possibly, someone else, really needs to evaluate just how important their time is, if they are literally reviewing every daily post, from several YEARS ago, for the sole purpose of attempting to discredit me.

Again, I’ve said a million times, I have no problem being wrong, and admitting it when I am. And I’d rather be wrong about the Hawks and have a winner, than right and deal with the ongoing frustration of following a bad franchise.

I’d love to see the Hawks put the same kind of energy and commitment, into building a great team, that some hopeless folks are placing on attacking me.

I’m not the reason the Hawks continue to frustrate their fans.

But if shooting the messenger makes you happy, have at it…

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

Manny, it’s not how you start, it’s how you finish. And CP we already signed a player who can play the 2 and the 3. Maurice Evans.

By doc

August 13, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

sund’s scorecard:

hired woody + fell asleep on chills + two journeyman in evans and murray + scrub big = yet to be determined outcome.

still hope for a legit big vet capable to bring 15 to 20 minutes and more than fouls to give stuff.

By The Truth

August 13, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

After watching these videos, I’m reflecting on our team offensive struggles last years.

There were many times we lack team chemistry. Before Bibby arrived, we were a one-headed monster team with role players. The opposing team just ran multiple defenders at JJ (at the right time) and that would seal their victory. When Bibby arrived, just his presence would stretch the defense. Even when Bibby struggled offensively, we were still able to win some games because he kept the defense honest.

Now with the addition of these new offensive weapons we have, it becomes more problematic for the opposing team. I expect us to win more games than last years. How much more will depend on defense and team chemistry. The defense part is Woody’s strong suit (if he has one). The team chemistry part maybe the most diffuclt to gauge at this point. But on the surface, these new players are bringing added dimensions to our team that we did not have last.

By doc

August 13, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

manny t i was referring to a line that might form to accompany clyde to rio if ray cant take leave of his badge.

yeah samuel the bucks took a hit on that one it seems. i wonder how scott skiles is feeling about now? sure helps our cause.

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Doc, Where does Law fit in? Dont you mean where does Speedy fit in? And another thing, Murray is a 2 guard who can play the point. Why is everyone calling Flip a pg? Bibby and Acie will get most of the min at pg.. Flip and Speedy will play Childress’ role as the 3rd or emergency pg. Flip on offense, Craig on defense. Flip will also backup Joe at the 2 spot.

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

If Speedy is healthy and with the addition of Murray, I’m sorry fellas, but Mario and J-Rich’s days are probably numbered. Lets see 1.Bibby/Acie/Speedy/Murray 2.JJ/Murray/Gardner 3.Marvin/Evans/Smoove 4.Smoove/Othello/Horford 5.Horford/Zaza/Morris Only 2 spots left and Solo probably has one of those spots. The final spot will go to either J-Rich or Mario. I personally would rather have Luke Jackson. What happened to him? I say we just trade all 3 (Solo, Mario, and J-Rich) for Chris Wilcox, sign Luke Jackson and call it a summer. lol!!

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

If Speedy is healthy and with the addition of Murray, I’m sorry fellas, but Mario or J-Rich’s days are probably numbered. Lets see 1.Bibby/Acie/Speedy/Murray 2.JJ/Murray/Gardner 3.Marvin/Evans/Smoove 4.Smoove/Othello/Horford 5.Horford/Zaza/Morris Only 2 spots left and Solo probably has one of those spots. The final spot will go to either J-Rich or Mario. I personally would rather have Luke Jackson. What happened to him? I say we just trade all 3 (Solo, Mario, and J-Rich) for Chris Wilcox, sign Luke Jackson and call it a summer. lol!!

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

If Speedy is healthy and with the addition of Murray, I’m sorry fellas, but Mario or J-Rich’s days are numbered. Lets see 1.Bibby/Acie/Speedy/Murray 2.JJ/Murray/Gardner 3.Marvin/Evans/Smoove 4.Smoove/Othello/Horford 5.Horford/Zaza/Morris Only 2 spots left and Solo probably has one of those spots. The final spot will go to either J-Rich or Mario. I personally would rather have Luke Jackson. What happened to him? I say we just trade all 3 (Solo, Mario, and J-Rich) for Chris Wilcox, sign Luke Jackson and call it a summer. lol!!

By terrell barron

August 13, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

Will Woody now yank Acie for long periods of time, now that we’ve added another vet in Murray? hmmm????? He better not. Let this kid grow up Woody. I actually think this move will only push Acie to get better.

By Malone

August 14, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this

Could the team Sund is putting together possibly be geared to succeed under Woody?

By terrell barron

August 14, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

And what’s up with the Bucks? They add Jefferson to go with Redd and Bogut, and then for some unknown reason they trade Mo Williams for Luke freakin Ridenhour. They just handed us the 8th seed lol!!!

By MannyT

August 14, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

doc if it were the Amazing Race, I wouldn’t be nudging you out of the way, I’d be sleeping in the airport to catch the ticket window as soon as it opened ;-)

mykhalc I’m 99.9% sure that Speedy’s, like almost all multi year NBA deals, is guaranteeeeeeeed!

If they let him go, he gets paid from the Hawks regardless of what deals he makes in the future. Just to put it in perspective, Chris Webber, Michael Finley, and Steve Francis all got PAID this past season by teams that they were not playing for during the season.

That’s why Marbury sits in NY. No one will trade for that monster contract. He’s way overpaid, but if the Knicks let him go, he’ll take a deal and play somewhere next season. Guaranteeeeeeeed!

As a NBA player, unless you go Wayne Brady, you’re probably getting your money even if your team lets you go.

One of the player highlights of Fiscal good CRAP.

By HB Ando

August 14, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this

Najeh, it’s interesting to hear you say that Murray is, “definitely, positively, not a point guard”. Regardless of my own opinion of Murray as a combo guard, the AP report, announcing the Hawks’ signing of him, refers to him as “a six-year veteran [who] can play both guard spots”. And Sund was quoted as saying, “Flip….has the ability to play multiple positions for us”.

I didn’t say Flip would replace Bibby. But because JJ’s versatility allows the Hawks to pair him with PG’s who don’t have to be pure, pass-first, players, Flip’s ability to play alongside JJ means there are now 4 players, on the roster, with that general skill.

So, when Bibby is traded (and he will be), then Murray gives them some flexibility at the position, and insurance against Law being unable to satisfactorily handle the major minutes, as well as reinforcing the reality that Speedy can’t be counted on to stay healthy, and contribute to the primary rotation.

I’m still kind of scratching my head at any posts that mention moving Speedy. Who in the world would take on his contract, given the very realistic projection that he’s done (and that doesn’t even include the additional consideration of his limitations as a shooter, which, confoundingly, didn’t keep Billy from dumping a ridiculously risky contract, on a poor-shooting, career back-up, who had a significant injury history).

We’re stuck with Speedy, unless he receives a league-supported injury retirement settlement, which would at least allow the Hawks to obtain insurance reimbursement for a major portion of his salary).

Meanwhile, I’m still trying to fathom what level of frighteningly unhealthy, stalker-like, fixation would lead a competitively employed individual to spend hours perusing years of daily blog posts, in a bizarre effort to ostensibly discredit my relatively inconsequential opinions on the Hawks, over the previous 4 years.

The essential core of long-term members, here, tend to think for themselves. If we all agreed, we probably all would have moved on by now. Do folks like BA, or “Ando is a liar”, honestly believe that a couple of relatively weak attempts to take shots at me, picking out 2 or 3 instances where I was off the mark, will either generate a wholesale revolt by the members who find credibility in the majority of my historic predictions or opinions, or send me away, cowering?

Seriously?

I’m more perplexed, by the underlying motivation, than put out or challenged.

You’ll have to come up with a little stronger position than an off-hand comment that Yi was a valid consideration, instead of Horford. I, myself, need to go check out that archive, because I’m trying to remember what type of context I must have been considering, to suggest that we actually draft yet another swingman.

It’s odd, really. I am so busy with my newborn, my company, and recovering from major surgery, in addition to having largely lost any positive expectations for the Hawks to have a near-term impact, that I was perilously close to moving on.

But these curious, petty attempts, to call me out, renew my energy.

So, I guess I’ll stick around, and relentlessly hammer home my opinions.

Don’t know whether it’s a case of letting sleeping dogs lie, or being careful what you wish for, but, either way, you want some, you’re going to get your wish…..

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

MT, i coulda sworn that i read if a player whose contract is guaranteed is released, then the team pickin’ up the player will be responsible for ‘X’ percentage of the contract. and i thought the earlier it happens in the year the more relief that the original team will get from their portion??!!??

By HB Ando

August 14, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this

On the surface, the Bucks trade was kind of odd. Mo Williams can play. But, if you start thinking about the issue of only having one ball to go around, and look at having Redd and Jefferson on the wings, and Bogut, who has not always been happy with how uninvolved he’s been in the offense, with consideration to the amount of money they just extended him for, then there’s a perspective to be considered here.

Sessions, when he played late last season, put up crazy, Calderon-like, assist numbers. And Ridnour, who I’ve never been a big fan of, is viewed as more of a pass-first PG.

So, it’s quite likely that the Bucks (time will tell whether they screwed up) felt that the “team” would be better balanced without Williams, who has proven to be a “shoot-first” PG, considering how many touches Redd, Jefferson and Bogut will likely seek.

Hey, it’s a risky move. I like Mo Williams, and he was a guy I thought the Hawks should have sought out all the way back when he was a back up in Utah (similar to my e-mail recommendation to one of the Hawks’ owners, in November of ‘05, that they pursue a little-known back up PG named Jose Calderon).

But, if the Bucks’ logic is consistent with my unsupported speculation, then, to me, it’s the kind of approach to building a team, with an emphasis on complementary balance, that I continue to preach about the Hawks.

The ‘04 USA olympic men’s team is a great example of confusing an accumulation of top individual talent for a well-constructed team. And both the Spurs and the Pistons have won NBA championships with rosters that, arguably, were more about balance and chemistry than a collection of pure, individual talent.

The Hawks have yet to demonstrate an understanding of that kind of roster balance. And all these arguments about Marvin’s upside, and how talented our front line will be with him, Josh and Horford, still miss that it’s an ill-fitting line up, especially on the defensive end.

The best potential Hawks team, for the coming season, would see Bibby (because he’s just not worth the money, and has optimal value as an expiring contract) and Marvin, moved for pieces that would truly optimize the core of JJ, Smith and Horford.

And I still don’t understand why Bibby fans believe that a guy who may be signing his last, major contract, would do so with a team that has so many question marks from an ownership financing standpoint. He’s at the stage, and age, where most professional athletes want a chance to play for a championship as much, if not more (depending on how much bank they’ve already stocked), than getting a huge contract, with a shaky organization. And there’s absolutely nothing about the ASG’s history, that suggests they’ll pay him more than anyone else.

And given that JJ and Smith are now both $10 million+ players, and Horford will be, does anyone here really believe that the Hawks will make Bibby a fourth $10 million + player?

The Suns wouldn’t pay that kind of money to JJ, to be their fourth option.

I don’t see that as being the least bit likely.

But, hey, as BA, and Roan, and “ando is a liar” have all pointed out, I have no idea, whatsoever, what I’m talking about.

By A.S.

August 14, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this

MannyT

that link you provided was weird. It stated he could get as much $5 (from a Euro. team) and as little as $2.5 (from NBA team) I wonder what his contract is like with the Hawks.

mykhalc

I hope you right about Morris. And whats this you hearing about Claxton. Is that speculation or you actually heard a rumor?

HB ando

I honestly think Claxton leaves before Bibbt. Yes Claxton has potential to put up 10 pts 5 ast but thats with major minutes. I think we trade him for a solid big man. Thats what I would do

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

ANDO, regardin’ SPEEDY, i agree, who would take his contract??? unless…a team takes it knowin’ the HAWKS will be responsible for ‘X’ percentage upon his release.

for me, it comes down to, is SPEEDY worth the possible disruption of the chemistry of the team?? BIBBY/ACIE/FLIP is the rotation. tho i know a lot of folks ‘know’ BIBBY will be traded. well i ain’t one of ‘em.

i see it like… BIBBY/ACIE/FLIP JJ/FLIP/EVANS MARVIN/EVANS/SMOOVE/JJ SMOOVE/HORFORD/HUNTER or SOLO HORFORD/ZAZA/MORRIS

no spot for SPEEDY!!!! and i do NOT see him bein’ kept inactive, if healthy, and bein’ content. now if he is on PUP list and insurance is coverin’ it, then leave him there ALL DAY!!! but i see the last spots on the roster bein’ held by cats like a GARDNER, JRICH, MARIO, LJACKSON, or an unnamed BIG.

anyway, my 2cents. but it is nice to see the roster bein’ filled out with more than just fillers!!!!

By HB Ando

August 14, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this

Thought I’d research that Bucks’ theory speculation. Sessions, in 10 April games last season, averaged 11.5 points, 11.3 dimes, 1.5 steals, 46% from the floor, and a 3.5:1 assist-to-turnover ratio. They have Charlie Bell and our old boy, Ty Lue.

I’d say the underlying logic, for moving Williams, is using Sessions to keep all those fellas happy.

With this move, and the Bucks additions of Joe Alexander, Elson, the already mentioned Jefferson and Lue, I’m still ready to go out on a limb and predict they’ll end up with a better record than the Hawks (as will the Bulls and Heat).

Two summers ago, after we took Shelden instead of Roy, I made an equally outlandish prediction (received quite a bit of mocking disbelief) that the Trailblazers would end up with a better record than the Hawks. By 2 games, they did (go look that up, BA).

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 2:07 AM | Link to this

A.S., pure speculation on my part regardin’ SPEEDY…and a LOTTA hope!!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 14, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this

“Najeh, it’s interesting to hear you say that Murray is, “definitely, positively, not a point guard”. Regardless of my own opinion of Murray as a combo guard, the AP report, announcing the Hawks’ signing of him, refers to him as “a six-year veteran [who] can play both guard spots”. And Sund was quoted as saying, “Flip….has the ability to play multiple positions for us”.”

I kinda expected that response. I know he has played point guard before. In this league pretty much everyone under 6’4” is considered at least a “combo guard”, even if they have zero point guard skills whatsoever. I was referring to his actual ability to direct an offense, not whether or not he has actually been forced to play that position before. True, Joe with his passing ability can take some pressure off Flip if they have to play together in the backcourt. The point, though, is that when you are building a roster, you’d rather have a player like Flip playing point as little as possible. To make a personnel decision based on Flip picking up the slack at point guard is kinda foolish.

Like I said, I agree that Bibby will probably get traded, but it’s gonna be because a) the Hawks have zero chance of re-signing him at a comparable salary at the end of the season (and would be foolish to do so), and b) they are gonna find out as the season goes along that they need some depth and Bibby’s expiring deal is gonna look pretty attractive around the trading deadline. At least I certainly hope Sund didn’t sign Flip with the intent of giving him significant minutes at point guard. Really, they should have got in on the opportunity to trade Bibby to Cleveland before Milwaukee pulled off the Mo Williams trade.

By BA

August 14, 2008 2:48 AM | Link to this

Wow. What a night on THIS blog! Can’t take credit for whoever pulled up that archive. The link didn’t work, but the part that was typed on here sounded familar. Hopefully will put that to rest- we can’t have Ando throwing around obscenities like some internet version of a primate with its excrement!

As far as Flip Murray, I was shocked, but I like it. I can see where the trade talk comes in, except (of course) in the case of Claxton. Craig is IMMOVABLE. He could only have gotten that kind of contract to come to (at the time) an awful team. He’s still an unknown.

But if they have a trade in the works for a REAL quality center for Williams and Bibby, why wouldn’t ANY Hawks fan want that? Anything like that will be predicated by Acie Laws performance. For now, Woodson has what he wanted, at least a couple of vets off the bench.

And since the Hawks are throwing money around pell mell(!) what happened to bringing back Lo Wright? If they’re going to go with an army of warm bodies behind Horford, I think they need at least one more. Two guys (like Pachulia and Morris) can pick up a lot of fouls quick in a bad situation (like when the Hawks are getting-consistently-shorted by a biased ref. crew).

By HB Ando

August 14, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this

Najeh, true ‘dat. I don’t think we are in disagreement. I think the potential split in opinion comes down to how seriously you be believe the Hawks are about going “all-in” for this coming season.

If you believe that they are hamstrung by financial limitations, like I do, then a guy like Murray is a solid contingency plan, assuming Bibby goes, and Law either flounders or requires significant support.

Flip is pretty much what we always hoped Salim could be, acknowledging that Salim is a pure shooter, and little else, and Flip is a classic “instant offense” guy, coming off the bench.

If I believed the Hawks were genuinely prepping for a serious run at the upper tier of the East, then grabbing Murray would almost be inconsequential.

But I don’t believe the commitment is there, financially. So signings like Evans and Murray are low-priced attempts to represent that the organization is serious about going all out for legitimacy.

As it stands, this roster stands to have anywhere from 5-7 journeymen filling out the back end of the bench.

I just think the addition of Murray stands as a pre-emptive contingency for the inevitable trading of Bibby’s expiring contract, regardless of the fact that he isn’t a pure point guard, and does not project to forward the fan’s expectations of a playoff run.

By BA

August 14, 2008 3:06 AM | Link to this

As far as any talk of peoples “credibility” here, that IS laughable, in this forum! A professional wrote an article, and any fool can come on here (short of certain deflammatory content) and submit any absurd opinion they’d like! It’s a blessing and a curse, the wild internet. Entertaining, but hardly a fair measure of anyones “crediblity”.

And again, in reference to the wager, Ando, I’ve only heard you refer to your recent little gift from Above. I’ve got a few- and it’s just not in my nature to play with money. Never even bought a scratch-off, much less engage in some bet with a well-versed stranger on the ‘net.

By BA

August 14, 2008 3:22 AM | Link to this

The Celtics bench: Sam Cassell, James Posey, Eddie House, P.J. Brown…”career journeymen”. With proper time management, in this league you need specialists (ala T Lue and AJ a couple of years ago, one for offense and the other on d). Playoff teams pick up these kind of guys.

By HB Ando

August 14, 2008 3:40 AM | Link to this

BA, when you successfully rally a contingency of “anti-ando” followers, that exceeds single digits, let me know. As far as I can discern, you represent a shallow, fact-averse, army of about 3 or 4 sullen folks, quite possibly compiled of an ASG employee or two, whose disorganized agenda is comprised of highlighting the occassional off-base prediction of a guy who has a very solid track record of valid concerns regarding the decision-making of the Hawks’ front office, over the last 4 or 5 years.

You’re goal to either diminish my voice, and its impact on the opinions of this blogs’ visitors, or to hopelessly aspire to drastically shift the largely skeptical concerns of a significant majority of participants/Hawks’ fans, by challenging the veracity of my opinions, is a losing proposition.

I don’t begrudge you your right, as I’ve steadfastly defended this blog’s existence as a truly open forum. I just suggest that unless you’re getting paid to take me on, your ultimately jousting with windmills, and will gradually come to this conclusion, over time, or persistently move forward, delusionally, not unlike a fifth-grader who believes he is victorious, in his peer confrontations, with no more to offer than comments like, “I know you are, but what am I?”.

Been in this position before. Hope you have more in your arsenal than what you’ve presented so far. I could lose interest pretty quickly if this is all you have (especially given what appears to be a ridiculous amount of time committed to perusing archives for out of context quotes).

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 4:09 AM | Link to this

well here’s the answer to my question regardin’ the ‘if SPEEDY was released’ scenario. it ain’t pretty either…SALARY HIT IF RELEASED

By BA= ASG EMPLOYEE

August 14, 2008 5:17 AM | Link to this

Isnt it just obvious

By mike

August 14, 2008 6:05 AM | Link to this

mykhalc:

On the salary issue, I think you are thinking of baseball. In MLB, if a released player clears waivers he can sign with any team. That team only has to pay him a prorated portion of the league minimum, while his original team pays the rest. (If a team claims him during the waiver period they have to pay the whole thing — but then again they don’t have to get his consent.) I think in basketball once a player is released he draws that check and can then negotiate whatever he can get with any other team. But I’m not 100% sure about that.

By roan st

August 14, 2008 6:35 AM | Link to this

Ando, you called BA a liar on the last blog for saying you wanted Noah over Horford when you’re post clearly indicate just that. Now “Ando is A liar”, whose a coward for not posting his/her real name, has found info backing BA’s claim and all you can come up with is that you were taken out of context. Please. I’m not trying to join any side to attack anybody but calling someone a liar is strong language. And it was you who presented the challenge to go back into the archives and point out where you were wrong. It looks like somebody took you up on that challenge but unfortunately they were not man enough to use their real handle. As far as you’re GM skills go had you landed the job last summer we would have YI instead of Horford. Just sayin.

By _sturt_

August 14, 2008 6:51 AM | Link to this

Sekou — TWO answers to two questions, please

First, you used the words “finishing touches” in describing the Murray signing. But how does that square with the reported quote by Sund that he wanted to come out of the off-season with two more bigs and a shooter? Where’s the second big? I know you’d hinted at one time that you thought Lo might return in that capacity. Anything new there?

Also, several of us are wondering how a team justifies keeping 4 players whose primary position is point guard on the roster… should this be taken to mean that there’s not a whole lot of confidence that Speedy will play this season after all?

By ray

August 14, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this

Damn, I see what I’m missing in the wee hours of the morning. Looks like some of y’all managed to awaken Ando. Heh…this happens every year and is so much fun to watch….

Man, I hope I’m never so popular that somebody goes archiving for my posts.

BA, I don’t believe that Claxton is immovable. In fact, take into account that he showed up in the summer league. No veteran of that many years who already has a contract shows up in the summer league. Something tells me he was put out there to show that he’s healthy. Question is, who needs to be able to see that? More than his own team, I think. The Hawks could’ve waited until veterans training camp for that…. That, and how do you know he wasn’t on the table in behind the scenes trade talks? I suspect he was…

Your comments about journeymen are on point except for a major difference. There are journeymen who go to playoff teams or playoff hopefuls. Then there are journeymen of another caliber that only go to playoff stalwarts and championship contenders…powerful teams. Guess what? Your list of journeymen fits the second description. That’s the difference. Even though Posey left Boston, he went to New Orleans, a powerful team (as evidenced by last season’s results). You won’t see any of those guys on a team that is on the fringe, hanging onto the fight for the 8th spot. Consequently, you won’t see those kinds of vets HERE.

Our ability to sign high level free agents depends on not just our finances, but our ability to win. If we are truly recognized as a stable team on the rise, they they’ll come. Until then, we’ll have to settle for nickle and dime tactics. Not that our FA signings have been bad this year. I think Sund has outdone Billy in a couple of spots, and I like the signings. But nobody comes here expecting to win big. Otherwise you’d see some bigger names.

By john

August 14, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

Chris Paul had skill, heart, proven college level play, and a mean streak. Marvin Williams was not even the second best player on the Carolina basketball team.

Paul had a tremendous pre-draft work-out for the Hawks, Marvin Williams was a bust in his pre-draft work-out for the Hawks, they had to call Marvin back in to access his skills a second time.

Potential is now the excuse for Hawks not drafting Paul, well take a look at Chris Pauls potential now, what do you think?

By doc

August 14, 2008 7:36 AM | Link to this

terrell since many have used flip as a point and he ended up at that positions for the pacers performing well at the end of last season i assumed he was going to play more at that position than two. that is especially true when we have a guy that plays 40 minutes at two and a new guy who is expected to play more than 20 minutes at two and some at three. just stating there is a road block and because of evans and jj i dont see flip playing many minutes at other positions than point.

one thing very important is it gives us some reliable players in case speedy isnt ready or breaks down. there is a benefit in having depth at that position until speedy is proven or maybe traded. maybe you are right that acie will end up in front of speedy and he is the odd man out. the competition should be fierce and fun to watch. i just see it as acie falling down the depth chart whether it is behind 2 or 3 players and getting fewer potential minutes. again the emphasis is here is a guy that came in expected to play major minutes as a rookie and here he is fighting for time on the court, big difference.

By Samuel

August 14, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

How can Big G start for a team that is challenging a group of our best but can’t make the Hawks. I don’t get that. I like this guy, sign him, Rick.

USA is in for a game today.

By doc

August 14, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

ando not sure how we get rid of bibby’s contract and that save money because we have to bring same amount back. how do the owners trade bibby and save money if that is the scenario?

By chuckw/deadjournalist

August 14, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

finally, a minute to post since i’ve been absent from the blog for the past week. i like the pick-up of murray as it addresses a few of the pressing issues from the end of last season (another veteran, a shooter of the bench, a guy that can play starters minutes off the bench).

but unless this team is being built to run, which we know is not the style woodson runs, there are still several holes in the front court.

let’s look at as the roster stands now :

starters bibby - g johnson - g williams - f smith - f horford - f/c

bench evans g/f (6/7) murray g (6/7) pachulia f/c (7/8) claxton (if active) g (8/9) law iv g (8/9) morris c (9/10) jones f/c (10/11)

deep bench/inactive west* g (11/12) richardson* g (12/13) gardner g (13/14) hunter f (14/15) * - if resigned

the bench is short one, if not two, players who could step in and play effectively as a starter/primary back-up at power forward/center.

unless morris makes a huge leap in ability and consistency, you are asking him to be your second big man off the bench. (unless they are comfortable with solo being the 4th big man …)

By roan st

August 14, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

Doc, I have been saying that all summer but nobody seems to listen. Bibby is the “expiring contract” so I don’t see a benefit to the hawks trading him unless they are willing to take on long term salary. Which is highly unlikely.

By doc

August 14, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

roan i am sure he will be the first off the island for expiring contracts and maybe a keeper in return or one of those exceptions that i still dont quite get if things go south. for now i see things shaping up that the owners may want to spend. as many say this team is still not woody’s style and that leaves me pause to wonder what is going on. need very badly a legit big and i dont consider rens a legit anything except popcorn popper but you can get that at the local regal for a lot less. if you have a good scout around he could be maybe had at 6’10 and 255. we continue to need a big by trade or free agency but the better ones are off the board for the latter option.

btw why was flip ditched last year by the pistons mid year?

By Samuel

August 14, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

I was wrong. Pressure will buss a Pipe. It’s all over boys. Coach K is aiming to prove me wrong. The man’s in heaven with this many studs who have bought into playing this kind of pressure defense.

Chuck, we could use another big but we definitely can win with this team. The key is pressure defense. We got the guys who can do.

By doc

August 14, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

yup samuel that and ball movement on offense with spacing, not one on one.

By Astro Joe

August 14, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

Doc, you’re right about having to bring back comparable salary if we trade Bibby. His contract is expiring so the only thing that trumps that is a trade exemption and I don’t think those are easy to acquire. Bibby stays. If Speedy plays 25-30 consecutive games before the All-Star break, he’ll likely end up as the back-up PG on a contending team at the trade deadline (did Phoenix ever find a b/u for Nash?). Sund certainly gave an early indication that Law will get playing time. I recall hearing/reading at least 2 Woody interviews where he specifically discussed giving Law more time. Dude earned an All-Summer League team award, so his Utah performance should not have made anyone change their mind. I’m thinking that Law gets the first 20-25 games to prove himself worthy of a consistent 20+ minutes of game time. They will try to treat him like Dallas did Devin Harris. But I really don’t think Woody will turn to Speedy nor Flip (as a PG) unless Law falls flat on his face. And if he does, I personally have to wonder if Larry Drew is truly a Master Instructor of PGs (as is his claim).

Fearless Prediction Alert. Zaza will have a VERY good year as he plays for a new 3-4 year contract. The GQ-Georgian wants to get PAID and will show us some of that ‘05-06 Zaza in the upcoming season.

1-2-3 Surprise! We have a Bench!

By MannyT

August 14, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

A.S. Cannot say much more about the link, The story was relatively short. The key thing for me was that Flip had choices and he chose the Hawks. That’s a big deal even if he isn’t a starter.

mykhalc If I read your link correctly, the original team carries almost all of the salary for the released player.In the example, the original team got back less than 200k after the player signed for 1 mil. In the situation that another team was willing to pay that player a lot more, they would have been better off picking him up off waivers to lock in the lower salary. Thus, I don’t see the Hawks getting real fiscal relief by letting Speedy go. Given that the league min is over 400k, you keep him.

For the Bibby Dumpers You have to bring back at least 12 mil in salary if you let Bibby go based on allowed salary differential in trades. (You get this by taking Bibby’s salary, then subtracting 100k, then divide by 1.25.)

ray this is what happens when some of the guys with the Onion mindset get on TV.

jhan,doc Just goes to show the girl x, girl y theory has worldwide political/Olympic depth.

About 2 1/2 minutes in, there is another spin on the Spanish Basketball team picture controversy.

BWAF

By Mike is back

August 14, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Dammmm, I’m use to reading all the comments before I make my post, but man this blog is on Fireeeeeeeer,”Ochaaa!!”. I see some big dogs are getting their A slammed!!!!! Heh Heh. Wow, the great HB taking a hit, “YOU GOTTA LOVE IT.” Heh Heh,lol

I really like the signing of Flip Murray, and Hunter. I think the Kid Morris can provide a low post present and he seem to have some potential to be a legit Big in the NBA, he never got a shot in NY. I think Big Al will continue to be the thrust that makes these big guys compete. I don’t see any Big on the current roster supplanting Al at the pivot. We must remember that these guys are the bottom feeders left over from FA. I think three guys will surprise next seasons, that’s Acie, Marvin, and Solo. Yes Solo.

Why I do not agree with Solo decision to past up SL play, the guy is a tenacious competitor, and he’s a great character guy. I think he will be prepared to compete when training camp begins. I know we haven’t heard anything about his off season work outs, but there were some chatter is AJC about Solo showing up for some of the works out with Acie. I still think Solo has the potential to be a legit shoot blocker and fill a void that the Hawks need.

Without signing of another Big, we’ll still need Solo contribution coming off the bench to provide some relief in the post. So absent Solo, all we have is Al, Zaza, and Morris in the Pivot. That still remains the biggest area of need for the Hawks. If Sund is still serious about adding another Big, why not try Jamal Magliore.

Sekou we are in dire need for some info on Solo.

By doc

August 14, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

solo is sooo far off my radar screen right now. he has soo much to prove in a very short time in vet camp. shall be interesting to say the least.

is there a big out there for the taking?

By JerryWest

August 14, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

What do you think of Mbenga as back up Center?

Check this: http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php?s=f3dcff6c0b45869fd7c72a2e2f4b954b&showtopic=333123

By kgbsfinst

August 14, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Ando

I’m the one that brought up the Barkley being out of position….for his size, and I stand by my opinions. Barkly was 6’6, and that puts him in the SF/SG area, but, your right, he was no question a PF. I guess I should have clarified that…my bad.

I know Horford is a PF at nature, but my point was he can still be great at the center position. The point I disagree with you is about Smith. I think he is more of a PF than a SF at this stage of his career. Hes 6’9 with an even bigger wingspan(that was for you Jay Bilas!) and has put on more muscle and weight every year. He is much better around the rim than he is away from it.

Smith isnt a good enough shooter to consistantly play the SF position. Also, he has started to develope an inside game, with the help of Hakeem, and Calvin in the offseason. I saw on several occasions throughout the season, him posting up.

By Melvin

August 14, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

I would like to see the Hawks add another big like Jamaal Magliore and take a risk of Shaun Livingston. Both guys are proven NBA players. In regards to Shaun, if he’s able to return to his pre-injury form then we have a guy ready to fill in as Bibby replacement or should Acie faulter as a starter. Besides, if he’s not able to play at a high level than he could be the 14 or 15th player at the end of the bench like Mario or J.Rich did last season.

By Sope Creek

August 14, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

A little off topic, but I wonder if Childress was watching the dismantling the US laid on Greece in Beijing today? If so, he’s gotta be thinking “um … .” just a little bit.

By I.MUS WRITE

August 14, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

We still need a goon in the paint. I would offer contracts to

DJ Mbenga…J.Magloire…

Maybe we could Offer Toronto - Solo/Claxton/2nd for Roy Hibbert

We really need a banger to deal with the Bogut’s and D howards of the world

As for Bibby I think he will be traded at the deadline… His salary coming off the books will help us in resigning JJ and Horford …I could live with Flip/Acie at the point,even though flip is more of a Sg. I think woody will play flip like he did T Lue…never mind setting up the offense / we really dont have one-just shoot baby!!

I think it was Ando who said it But i also think Milwaukee will end up with a better record than us….they have really made good moves/draft picks this summer……..ridding themselves of Mo williams was a good move -he shootz way to much and doesnt get others involved .luke is the pass first point they needed,Raymond sessions is ready to blow up also. DarkHorse…..O Hunter-Yungn will surprise sum folks if given a chance…….. When does camp start!!

My boi Troy Smith will be starting for the Ravens this year barring injury….Boller is a career loser and Flacco is gonna be good but he’s not ready yet. Ryan needs to be our starter form day one with shockley backing him up…..I hate joey harrington with a passion

Mykhalc-U are wild’n out right now LOL…… Agent triple S..LOL

By steve

August 14, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

You do realize that Joe wasn’t even a hawk until August of that summer, making the whole passing of Paul, Williams for that reason irrelevant. The draft is in June people….

By terrell barron

August 14, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Doc, I see Evans backing up Marvin at the 3. You know why? Evans can play the 2 and the 3, Flip plays the 2 and the 1. It’s that simple. And JJ wont log all of those min. this year. Woody said so himself. Quote “We’ve got to get Joe some help”. FLIP IS THE “HELP”. He can also be our 3rd pg, with Speedy coming in for defensive purposes, if he’s able to play. Which is a BIG IF.

By terrell barron

August 14, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Joe Alexander, Elson, and T-Lue. Wow Ando! Just Wow! You’d kill Sund if that’s all he brought in his summer. Especially after you traded away your’re OVER HYPED 1st rdr from JUST LAST YEAR.

By Astro Joe

August 14, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

I don’t know what the point would be in adding a 4th center. Horford, Zaza, Morris are set. Magloire or Mbenga or someone else could possibly offer a little more than Morris but is that really going to make a major difference? Unless it is a long-term defensive upgrade from Zaza (like Kwame would have been), I don’t think a one-year deal is that critical.

But with that said, I wouldn’t mind seeing Josh Powell offered a 2-year deal as our back-up PF… I have yet to see anything from Solo and like Doc, he is off my radar screen.

By KeithEdmundson returns

August 14, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Random observations after reading the blog:

Murray is here for security if Bibby and Acie aren’t big enough. And IMO, when Stuckey emerged as a player, Dumars no longer needed Flip for security. He was only at Indy for the last month and TJ and Jack have taken on that duty. Indy did a good job upgrading.

Morris’ shot is right now. You know what Zaza gives you, and he doesn’t do much defensively. Morris has a chance to get double digit minutes, if Woody can trust anyone off the bench. So far he hasn’t shown he can.

Speedy is Charles until proven otherwise. He needed SL more than SL needed Charles. He is not being counted on this year and will have to win a spot in the rotation. We pay him no matter what, so if Flip can do the job, no mo Charles. And of all teams, Dallas and the Knicks could use some PG experience. Kidd might not make it major minutes for 82+ games. He oughta be fresh after the Olympics though as BK’s rejects are getting the minutes.

I gotta say more depth than ever before on our bench with legit ?? about Bibby and Marvin and are they ready to play better this year? Evans to me will get plenty of minutes provided he can get off the bench. We know how Woody gets. I would like to see what Evans could give us at the 3 as well.

I don’t expect to see Solo anymore than a Salim sighting. Solo just has to get bigger to be a factor. Morris trumps him here.

No more youth was the mantra handed out to us, so good luck to Garder, Hunter and Mario for probably what amounts to 1 roster slot. Is the DL in their future?

We sure could use one more vet big man even if it does end up being Magloire. He fits the slow half court game Woody strives for. My guess is we are done adding any pieces without substracting. Our inside game is still questionable, especially with a tough schedule early on.

Can we get 7-8 more wins this year? If we do, it will be late when the home schedule is in our favor. I hope we aren’t talking about a new coach in 3 mos. What a waste of an offseason if that is the case.

By terrell barron

August 14, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

And Ando, Jefferson goes from playing for a TWIRP, who was almost as young as he was, to playing for Scott freakin Skiles. Are you kidding me? One of the most demanding coaches out there. hmmm? Are you sure that’s going to work.

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

JOE, thank you. i’ve been sayin’ all along, BIBBY stays!!! the only way BIBBY goes is if the HAWKS fall on their a*******es and are out of the playoff pic. and if that does happen, BELIEVE ME, they will not get a big back from the playoff team that BIBBY will likely go to. or at least one they’ll want to keep. they’ll get expirin’ contracts back so they can play in the FA pool next summer.

the only way ACIE gets supplanted by SPEEDY is that SUND/BASG decide to let ACIE’s trade bring a BIG back. and if that happens then BIBBY gets his last contract here not elsewhere. there is NO WAY, hear me pls, NO WAY, that this franchise, as stupid as they are and have been, will put any faith in SPEEDY to hold down significant minutes!!! NO WAY…PERIOD!!!

DOC, we see it the opposite. i see EVANS gettin’ the bulk of his mins as MARVIN’s bkup not JJ’s. unless they bring in another 3 at 6’7” or better (and HUNTER ain’t that guy) then i think that’s how it’ll flow. my 2cents anyway.

By terrell barron

August 14, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

John, PLEASE!

By terrell barron

August 14, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

I thought somebody said Holyfield was broke? He was sitting in the stands at the USA-Greece matchup. Was that a free trip? Just asking. lol!!

By Joshua

August 14, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

You know your going to call me crazy , But I love the off season the Hawks rebounded nicely from losing Chill and boggling up J-Smoove . Mo is going to be a stalwart defender off the bench , Murray is insurance as a primary scorer off the bench who take over the back point for Law and oft injured Claxton , He has size and grit and only Horford had grit last year ( Although Zaza in kg’s face was cool and makes a nice wallpaper lol) . Morris could be a sleeper but the problem may be too many pieces . But I think cross your finger the team just got better . Bibby Law IV Claxton PG Johnson Murray Gardner SG Williams Evans Richardson SF Smith Jones Hunter PF Horford Pachulia Morris C

By doc

August 14, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

myk maybe, but his size is better for the two more than the three. jj will have to move to the three hole i imagine on defense. with chills he didnt have to do that. i thought evans more the two guy and additional shooter that we needed when he was obtained.

the choices are there so it will be interesting to see if and how woody uses them. that has not been his mo or forte in the past to move and change folks around as his style has been to say you play here and when irrespective of what the other guy does.

that line of thinking is what has gotten to all of us except a few here and in effect that was got to chills . it seemed that no matter situation came up or how one performed what he wasnt going to start or compete to start even when marvin went down. so it was a double edged sword for him; he could start butsince he didnt folks here and elsewhere saw him as a back up and “worth” only those types of dollars. he was competitive enough to say i will go elsewhere and prove myself even if i have to go half way around the world to do it and collect some major change in doing it. i guess that is what disturbs me is the guy was one of our most competitive, versatile players and he went elsewhere so he could ultimately compete as he wanted. from that decision of wanting to be free to compete some denigrated him from kirk, to sund, to others saying he was not competitive.

maybe we will begin to se how things shape up in pre-season. not too far away.

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

terrell, your 1:51am post…totally on point IMHO

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

s/b 11:51am post

By Tyger

August 14, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Best Signing so Far

Josh Smith is a given, without him, the Hawks would have seriously regressed, so that one falls in the category of no-brainer.

Ronald “Flip” Murray on the other hand is an absolutely fantastic signing. He is an unadulterated scorer. Combo guard in that he can play both positions and can score in so many different ways.

Bottom line: the kid is the truth, he can flat out play.

Well, if he’s so good, why does he bounce around so much? Flip is from a small obscure black college in NC. He isnt supposed to be in the NBA, if you listen to the experts. But, the fact of the matter is he outplays guys regularly from the UNCs, Dukes, UCLAs, etc. that were 1st rd. picks.

He is a dilemma for the GMs - on the hook for drafting that other guy so high, or paying that last free agent so much.

We’ve seen it here several times in the past year. Guys are taken high, so better players have to sit. Thats the Flip Murray story.

Hopefully, the Hawks have matured to the point where the best player will get the minutes.

The main reason I’m so excited is because this is exactly what the Hawks needed for a change. Teams wont be able to lock in on JJ now. Flip will penetrate and hit the outside jumper and handle the rock. JJ will be free. JSmoove will get easy looks.

Its a great signing, kudos Rick Sund, you finally made a mark on this team.

By I.MUS WRITE

August 14, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

AJ- A 4th center added to the roster would be a good thing……Who did u just mention -ZAZA, Horford,Morris….

Mbenga/Magloire are good defensive players in the middle…..Need i remind you how soft ZAZA played all year-he is a liability on the defensive end…Morris is a big ? mark, so that leaves us with Horford ……. We need a strong 7footer period.

We could even run with a big line up from time to time… Acie/JJ/Smoove/Horford/Magloire

By the way josh powell is 6’9 225 -he would be redundant on this roster… Our one major whole is at backup center…. ZAZA and Solo dont do it for me at all…..I remember Bogut killing us for 21/12…… Ahhhm Yeah adding a defensive minded center will definitely make a difference.

When Horford sits other teams start licking their chops because they know ZAZA is a candy azz…..Nuthn but a big flopper who thinks he is a small forward.

OMG is this a hawks hang out spot…. I just saw Woody walk in here with one of the new guys …… Lata yall time to see what I can find out

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

DOC, i totally feel ya on CHILS bro. but here’s where we differ. CHILS DID start. he was the startin’ 2 when JJ was brought in as the new 1. problem is, he did NOT have an outside shot that he could create and take. he was exactly what you do NOT want in a 2, especially your startin’ 2. again, i ain’t hatin’ either!! if EVANS woulda been the startin’ 2 ‘that’ would not have been ‘the’ problem back then. now the experiment still coulda failed. but ‘probably’ not ‘cause EVANS couldn’t get his shot off.

CHILS’ game turned him into the ‘perfect’ 6th man!!! and if he really wanted to start at the 3 then he had 4 yrs to get a shot. to me, that was the only thing holdin’ him back from really takin’ the spot from MARVIN. ‘cause until now this team has ALWAYS needed shooters. and as much as i luv’d what CHILS brought to the court, there was no way that you could take MARVIN’s shot off the court with the roster we had.

for as smart as CHILS is, he proved dumb-founded to what part of his game needed to be addressed the most and the most urgently!!! and the ironic thing about it is, when i see STANFORD sports advertised on the tube out here, i see a clip of CHILS pullin’ up takin’ the outside shot!!! WTF happened to that move, that shot??? and after 4 yrs, i still didn’t get an answer!!!

i know CHILS has ample reason to gripe. afterall he played for WOODSON. but his lack of shot lies SOLELY on him. and to me, that helped carve the position he found himself in. the brotha’s gotta hold up the mirror on this one IMHO!!!

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

AGENT ‘TRIPLE S’ on the gig again!!!LOL

By doc

August 14, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

myk, someone has to pass him the ball when he is out there, you and i both saw that it didnt happen often and again in an interview i heard that was one of the factors in his decision to move on and put this franchise behind him. even woody said he is not burning bridges with chills and neither is chills doing the same. if conditions change and he feels it right he can come back otherwise in two years he is a ufa. remember there were two teams that were contenders that thought enough of his game to consider him and one of those two it was rumored to want him to start. only chills, the hawks and the shadow knows who’ heh heh

this isnt as much about chills though but about how, who and why or if woody is ready to use the bench and the options which as we argue or discuss , a better term, the many particluar options there are. dont get side tracked, this isnt about chills anymore but how he was used as a reflection of the coach. if other guys begin to feel the frustration then there is a mutiny of sorts.

i have a notion that i.mus is in a popular big man shoe store. ask him about his daughter up in indiana dude.

By terrell barron

August 14, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Doc, Marvin cant play in the 1st game. I betcha Evans starts for Marvin at the 3? JJ will play the 2 and Evans the 3. When Marvin comes back, Evans will take over Chills role. Whenever Marvin’s shot is off, Evans will be off the bench quicker than a crackhead on his way to the pawn shop.

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

DOC, you know i have NO confidence in WOODSON to do the smart thing…NONE…NADA…NOT ONE IODA!!! but this is for sure, not playin’ his bench now should be a quick exit for him this season. QUICK!!!!

By Hey Kirk Look At This!

August 14, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

By Smirknga (or Ray or Sautee)

August 12, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Is there any truth to the vicious rumor I heard that Kirk wanted the Hawks to sign that Irish big man.. O’bession?

By ray

August 3, 2008 12:39 AM

Unfortunately, not all consider discussions such as these to be the challenging reparte and dialogue that they are. No, this is only bullying, which we should be obstaining from.

Don’t he mean abstain?

WELL WELL WELL NOW!

So what do you think of that Kirk. He’s riding you like he like and did the same thing?

Why you think Sautee didn’t lick them letters the way he licking your all the time?

Comeon Kirk handle this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(YOUR WELCOME)

By I.MUS WRITE

August 14, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

“Crackhead on his way to the pawn shop” ……LOL

I was mistaken, the guy that came in with Woody was his nephew. He’s on his way to Kansas to play ball….He looks like he has sum game… He should have come to G Tech but oh well.

Im so sick of Steve Brousard and these other reporters who dont have a clue….

According to Woody- the riff/beef between him and Josh is bull shyt…. he said that its his job to get the best out of josh and sumtimes players dont liked to be pushed ….he said early in Smooves career he got on him alot because he didnt know alot coming out of high school and he did’nt want to workout (weight lifting) Also there probably wont be another big added….I asked about Magloire and he said “They are’nt going to pay what Magloire wants”…..

I take it that “they” are the ASG so it looks as though we are set for Veterans camp.

Also he said Randolph really impressed him in minicamp and that he’s going to suprise some people. Randolph has never really been coached AAU/KU/NK…. i tend to agree,but is woody the one to get the best out of him… only time will tell but his track record screamz hell to the naw……

I didnt know coaches got shoe contracts ..Woody is signed with nike -which seems wierd because he is wearing a suit and hard bottoms when he’s on Tv…dont see the point as far as nike is concerned,but im sure he is enjoy’n the extra doe. Marvin Williams is gonna have a break out year-I hope this is true -Woody knows these players better than anyone so we will see….I predict 16/7 which is’nt bad.

By Astro Joe

August 14, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Doc, MannyT and others, did you read this?

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/printedition/2008/08/14/spirit.html

I.MUS, Zaza is playing for a contract… he will bang this season, much like he did during the playoffs and his first year here. Mbenga and Magloire are both 5 minute a game kind of players. And while Powell may look light in the pants, he’s a true banger. I’m not saying he’s a savior, but I’d rather give him minutes than Solo.

By doc

August 14, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

tyger, nice try on the reason that flip bounces. problem is the last guy who bounced him came from the same background and admired and saw stuckey as a reflection of himself. you know who that is? none other than dumars himself from a lower level college and always had to prove himself. the reason is he hasnt quite made the grade where he was like last year was he was being supplanted by a rookie in his same mold or not with the right team or a team filling the holes it had with better players like happened in indiana as they chose to go out and get tj and jack. dont make it any more than hte guy hasnt found his home or isnt good enough all around. dont make him out to be a victim. i dont want victim’s on this team.

By Melvin

August 14, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Triple S you da man… Dang, I was hoping we could sign Magloire. Oh well, I hope Morris can be productive…

By keithedmundson returns

August 14, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

I.MUS, appreciate you getting it straight from the coach we are having to put up with. Saying that, he sounds like he likes this roster, but will always accept more vets. Magloire is going to have to accept the vet minimum ANYWHERE he goes. If he wants to be on a roster, he takes that salary. He screwed himself out of a big payday by his lethargic play after the ‘04 all-star game. Money won’t motivate him now….ask Dallas and NJ. As for Morris, I disagree, he was coached while at UK….he just didn’t want to take the instruction…he was a double-double type talent if he wanted to be. Its all about his internal desire…he has a chance for a much better contract, like a MLE or a Diop type result if he can hold his own and get motivated on both ends. I take the chance with him at this stage in his career. He has the tools if he wants to use them. I predict he takes some of Zaza’s minutes based on defense alone. I agree as well in that I think we have our roster going into training camp. Unless someone goes down with an injury, we compete with those offseason additions. My bet is that Solo and/or Richardson don’t see the opening tip in the home uniform. 8 preseason games to see the bench on the court to see who gets in the 3-4 man rotation…..I see it as Acie/Evans (once Marvin returns from that weak aggressive flagrant)/Zaza/Flip.

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

AGENT TRIPLE S…SUPER FLY SUPER SPY!!…at it again!!! nice scoop man!!!! damn, 2 days runnin’!!!! the RED BULL is kickin’!!!LOL

JOE, thanks for the link. FEB 09 will hold a lotta answers, all the way around!!!

By BA

August 14, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

OK, People, maybe technically Claxton isn’t immovable, but I still say it’s unlikely. If he turns out to be healthy, I think the Hawks could use a veteran defensive minded point. Like Bibby, he probably has a higher value to Atlanta than for most other teams. I’ve seen nothing from Acie Law that tells me he’s ready to back up Bibby.

doc (8:24 am), Ando has been dodging THAT question from the start of his hairbrained “trade Bibby” commentary. I wouldn’t expect an answer now.

And no, I’m not an ASG employee, but if they’re hiring, I’d sure consider it. Couldn’t be worse than the dead-end job I currently have!

I think people are in shock. Do the asg have unlimimted funds? Clearly they don’t. But they have shown a willingness to spend enough to supplement last year’s playoff squad. It’s comical to see Ando beat his dead horse into the ground every post. Sure, they’re broke. They’re going to slash payroll. Except they keep ADDING veteran players. How do you justify that? Oh, yeah, OF COURSE, it’s so they can trade Bibby. Except that wouldn’t save ANY money.

Face it, folks, you might not agree with the way ASG is doing it (or the particular players they got), but this is called “going for it”, or “all in”.

As far as our would be “Alpha”, I’ve got a new screen name suggestion: “Where would we be…WITH YI”!

By Melvin

August 14, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the link Joe. As I recall, the BASG was giving a deadline to have a 3rd appraisal done. And they chose not to have one. In which the Judge rule in Belkin favor only to be overturn later. In other words, this all could’ve been resolved by now if they had gotten that 3rd appraisal…

Procrastination = BASG PAIN

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

damn, i heard that ding all the way out here in san fran!!!!LOL

By Smirknga

August 14, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Any truth to the NEW rumor that Ray wanted to sign a different Irish big man… that’s right, O’bstaining?

By MannyT

August 14, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe Nice catch on the article. The briefest response I can give is a link.

If the case starts in February, I hope it is done and fiscal outcomes are met by June 30, but I know better. There might be a decision, but the loser will find some reason to appeal and toss it back to the courts.

If you subtract Belkin’s withheld share from the amount the others have put in since 2005, they would have been down about $20 mil over 3 seasons. Not great news, but better than $44 mil. As long as Belkin’s not paying, it’s to his advantage to slow play this whole deal. Almost like buying pro sports organization on layaway without making regular payments at the store…The Atlanta Hawks & Thrashers sponsored by Rooms To Go. No payments, no interest, until 2010

My guess is that the hockey team loses more than the basketball team. Not sure about the arena.

I wonder how much the lawyers are making in this one.

Smells like an ASG sandwich of fiscal PAIN.

By Mike is back

August 14, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Doc , I know Solo name want garner much interest, but he crash and burn terribly last SL play. He is probably still hunted by his performance. That may be the reason he elected to by pass SL play this season. Lets face it Solo will never be a prolific scorer, but he can block shots and get rebounds.

I just like him because he rides the pine most of the season, but you never see him moping of or complaining. No matter how much PT he gets, he always comes out and plays hard.

One thing for sure, if he is not ready to compete, there will be plenty of takers for his spot. I think he’s smart enough to have figured that out. So yea I want to know what’s this cat been doing to improve his game.

By Smirknga

August 14, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

And isn’t Sautee just another of Ray’s “personas”??? Like Kirkenstein?????

Think about it.

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

i’m missin’ what this statement is sayin’…Belkin would owe them approximately $24.9 million for capital contributions he was not required to make under terms of that contract.

terms of what contract??? the original contract??? if so, i want his lawyers!!!geessshhhh talkin’ about a mess!!!

By doc

August 14, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

another view, thaks aj:

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/thrashers/entries/2008/08/13/ominous_losses.html

By doc

August 14, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

sautee, but can he say anachronysms?

yeah, good laugh!

By ray

August 14, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Oh for crying out loud. I may not be the “bash of the month” celebrity that Ando has become, but I really don’t have time to create that many personas. And yes, I did spell “abstaining” incorrectly. Sometimes even I get my mords wixed up. Just not as often as some others….

I.Mus, I think you and I are among the few who feel that Othello Hunter is going to make a splash…assuming Woody has turned over a new leaf that is…

BA, it was just a thought. Claxton might stay. Bibby might too. Hell, everybody might stay. Well, not everybody…

By kgbsfinst

August 14, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

I think both Bibby and Claxton stay for the year, thats if we are still in the hunt(we better be!)

After the year, I dont know. It will be interesting to see how much Bibby wants. I am thinking we could keep him at a reasonable price, if the ASG and Woody dont think Law is ready. My guess would be that another playoff team with an owner who doesnt care about the cap, will overpay him and he will leave for the better offer.

By nique

August 14, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

did the hawks go after mo williams? based on what was involved in the deal, it seems like we could have had him if we wanted him. sekou any insight into this? i’m disappointed if they didn’t go after him.

By MannyT

August 14, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

I’m not going to get sucked too deep into the ASG financial rat hole b/c there is far too much data that we don’t have.

I do recall that this partnership is divided into regional chunks. Boston (Belkin) had a say, DC (Levenson, Peskowitz, Foreman) had a say, and Atlanta(Gearon, Gearon, et al) had a say. Money probably wasn’t equal so folks with bigger chunks probably had more interest in the rules.

Mykhalc if you were in a band/orchestra with 8 folks that all had different levels of cash and talent—assuming you start w/o anything—no instruments, place to practice, etc. You would need rules. The folks with the most cash or most talent are likely to have the bigger say.

Belkin put up a lot of cash. It is clear from the team valuation thing that he spent more time reading the rules even if he didn’t make them. He who knows the rules best is always in a position of strength even if wrong.

That’s why folks with lots of cash get their taxes done by people who spend lots of time examining tax rules…and if you are flat broke you can do your taxes on that 1040 EZ form ;-)

By ray

August 14, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

kgbsfinst, that depends on your idea of a reasonable price.

But anyway, I have to go. My other personalities are arguing about who’s driving home, who’s cooking dinner (and what we’re having), and who gets to kiss the wife….I can tell you it won’t be Kirk or Smirk, or Sautee….

By Macaroni Tony

August 14, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

I do like the pick-up of Flip Murray. I found some videos of his highlights: this is the link. http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php?showtopic=333113 I think that Flip is a monster and he will give us the veteran leadership that we have needing for quite sometime. I am also happy that we are not the youngest team in the league, and I do think that we will surpise alot of people this year. I don’t think we should trade Bibby, because we haven’t had a good healthy starting pg (back-up: Kenny Anderson, TLue, SClaxton, AJohnson, Ivey, etc) for quite sometime. I would love to see how the back court of Bibby and JJ would be along with JS playing the SF, with AH playing the PF and with Morris playing the C position. I just love that we didn’t have any draft picks (sad that we lost JC) but we did add additions I’m happy.

By RA

August 14, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

So what? It’s been over a day since the Murray signing and still no pronouncements of doom and gloom from Bradley? No slamming from Schultz? No negativity from Moore? No ever so cautious optimism from Sekou? Not even any wisdom from Mr. Bisher? Come on despite whatever the mistakes the spirit has made over the last few weeks, months, years…, we finally have a team that, on paper, is ready and deep enough to stand toe to toe with some of the best teams in the east. We finally have a team that, again, on paper, isn’t to young, or too green, or to inexperienced to contend. Why the deuce isn’t somebody (or everybody) writing about it? When childress left, everybody seemed to have an opinion. Since then, the Hawks have brought in at least three solid players. Where’s the buzz? I mean really. Come on guys. You all have good stuff to write about this team, finally. For goodness sake, write it!

By Astro Joe

August 14, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

More than anything else, I think it’s F’ed up that Belkin would accuse (allegedly) one of his business partners of player tampering at the risk of the franchise losing 5 draft picks. But then again, I guess all is fair in love and war.

If we allow ourselves to speculate on that tampering, wone could assume that Tellum and Levinson had a gentlemen’s agreement in place regarding a certain Mr. Johnson of the Arkansas Johnsons. And that alleged tampering may have played a role in who was drafted approximately 10 days prior to the start of free agency. Likewise, it could explain the subsequent drafting of another Tellum client, one Mr. Williams of the Oklahoma Williams’ to an elevated pick.

But of course, that is all hear-say, allegations and rumor. Thank goodness, there are no conspiracy theorists hanging around these parts.

By ray

August 14, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Well, I think the flurry of signings (and decent ones, if late offseason) has encouraged a lot of us. Evans and Murray were good pickups. And I’ll say this:

We missed out on some good names, guys we wanted. But it’s probably better to not have bigger names that would quickly become dissatisfied with their situations. It’s always better to have guys that want a job and want to be here. Looking at it from that perspective, we’ve done better than expected. I still think we need another vet big man, but that may or may not happen.

I’m more than willing to accept the idea that Bibby stays for the year. It’s not what I originally thought, but I was thinking of his contract more than anything else, and how it could be parlayed into an actual asset. It may not happen that way, which means we’re renting him for a year and a half total. I still don’t think he’ll be back after that because we’ll be spending too much money on JJ and Big Al. I could be wrong about that, too. However, why re-sign a guy like that if you’ve got Law around? If that’s the case, then you may as well move Law. And I don’t see that happening unless he’s just awful. I don’t see him turning out that way, but I’m not prophet. Anyway, Bibby will be playing for a contract from somebody (as somebody else noted, I think it was richie boy). I think barring injury…he’ll do fine, but we need to see Law get some big mintues or there will be no progression in that area.

Now…this next part is probably going to pi$$ somebody off. We still have to balance the roster. I don’t see Marvin as being part of this big picture. I believe it was Ando that originally said some years ago that eventually there must be a choice between Marvin and Josh. I think that still holds true, but for different reasons.

One, Josh has already been signed to a healthy contract. Marvin is due up the same time JJ and Al are, is he not? If not, then he’s pretty close (within a year). No way does the ASG (and I know I’m going out on a limb here with the “no way” phrase) throw double figure money at three guys at one time right after doing it with Smith. Out of those three guys, guess who comes up short? Yep, Marvin. Horford is a HUGE cornerstone of the future, and JJ is THE MAN. Marvin’s caught in the squeeze play.

UNLESS….Marvin shows himself to be a transcendent talent this year. The kind of talent you just can’t give up. In which case, all those Smith haters will be happy, because Smith will be going out of town.

The only reason I say this is because there’s so much money to be paid out at one time. JJ has proven he’s worth it. Horford proved it his rookie year and will prove it even more so this year, barring injury. Marvin? Love him, but he’s not on that level right now. And unless he can make us forget about what Smith does, he’s the odd man out.

No, I’m not one of those guys who says we just gotta trade somebody for the sake of trading. But ask yourself seriously (and this is what the ASG and Sund must also do)…Does this lineup have what it takes to make deep runs into the playoffs consistently? Talented as it is, I don’t feel that we have enough mismatch capabilities to do so against more balanced, and better coached teams.

Now before somebody starts hating on me (no matter how inevitable that may be), understand that I like our team. And we will find out this year just how far this lineup can go. I think we can go further than last year if a lot of things go right (health, improved coaching and gameplan design, adjusting gameplan, player improvement, chemistry improvement, etc). But it’s not like other teams just got worse. Some of the better ones got even better, and some of the worst ones got better too. It’s going to be a competition. Looking forward to it, myself. Just keeping an eye toward the future…

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

one good thing is they have until 2011 to have to address HORFORD. hopefully, the whole CHILS/SMOOVE thing has taught them a valuable lesson about how to go about things smarter next time. ‘cause they really did luck out on the BRAND and CAMBY stars linin’ up against SMOOVE’s market value!!!

By ray

August 14, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Conspiracy theorists, Joe? Haven’t seen any….

By mykhalc

August 14, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, in followin’ your MARVIN topic, i’m kinda thinkin’ like you…that MARVIN is caught in the squeeze play as you say. MARVIN’s qualifyin’ offer for next year is $7.3mil. that’s 2x what SMOOVE’s offer had to be. and unless MW does some crazy stuff this season, there is no way he’s worth that now. man, if it was me, i’d be on the phone to POR to see how we could work out a MARVIN for OUTLAW trade!!???

well, kiddie salary time is officially over for the HAWKS, no doubt!!!

By Mike is back

August 14, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe and Doc I read both post and I can’t help but echo the sentiments of another blogger. The Hawks franchise would have been much better off if the cat name McDavid had been allowed to purchase the team. The ASG pulled a coup to gain ownership of the Hawks. There were some behind scene willing and dealing to allow someone local to be a part of the ownership of the team. Now the ASG are the laughing stock of both league. I believe King DStern sign off on the deal for the Hawks. I bet he gets angina every time news of the ownership dispute is reported.

I don’t know much about the cat McDavid, at lease there would have been only one owner instead of the enigma formerly known as ASG. I guess it’s poetic justice that the ASG has been much maligned since they purchased the Thrasher and Hawks. It’s funny how justice is always served.

On the subject of Bibby, I think Bibby stays, at lease for the remainder of the season. Woody seem excited about the prospect of having Bibby for a full tcamp so he can learn his offense. What offense? “Yea that’s I said.” Bibby made this team better the day he put on a Hawks uniform. Surely, he will make the team even better with more familiarity of the system. Anyway the signing of Flip provides veteran insurance in case of injury to Bibby , Acie , or Speedy. Either one of those cats could be injured as some point in the season, having a guy like Flip on the roster is a smart move by Sund. On paper Sund appear to have improve the roster from last season. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I still say the Hawks go back to the playoff. As bad as Woody’s coaching was last season, the Hawks still made the playoff. Even he should be a better coach next season, ”Yea Right.” lol. Let me rephrase that, lets hope that Woody has matured as a coach for the upcoming season.

Riddle me this, looking at the dire straights of the ASG, and the fact that they are loosing all that cash, Woody might be here for the remainder of his contract. Makes Ya Go Hmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Mike is back

August 14, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

MannyT, bro what would it cost the ASG to replace Woody if he should falter before the All-Star break. I’m sure they will have to eat the remainder of his contract for the upcoming season, but is all his money guaranteed. Man with ASG loosing 15mil a season on the thrashers and Hawks, we may be stuck with Woody for his entire contract.

By Astro Joe

August 14, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

No need to even consider trading Marvin now. Sure, he’s a candidate for a S & T, mostly because SFs are a dime-a-dozen (unless you’re something more special than Melo who so far hasn’t done too much for his team). But with $20M leaving between Bibby and Zaza and the possibility that Speedy may give up the ghost and add another $5M in salary relief, I don’t think there is any need to panic. If the owners (big if) are good with paying this current roster their salary by the end of the year, then there is a big salary-relief light at the end of the tunnel.

Ray, the issue is that Smith has yet to show any signs that he can effectively play the SF. He uses his quickness to penetrate against PFs and he has yet to develop any traditional SF skills. Ultimately, the question is which frontcourt can provide the best chance to win… Marvin, Smith, Horford or Smith, Horford , TBD. And I don’t think that question has been answered.

By doc

August 14, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

aj, thanks for elucidating on some very interesting stuff there dude. funny i think i was just asking mr kirk about that the other day.

i also think i argued at length with ando on that one. sorry BA and all those that get a kick out of ando being wrong, i’ll strike one more up in his favor. gee, that really does make those guys an even poorer judge of talent. i’ll also remind folks to pat attention and even of you dont agree there is a lot of info to be gleaned from the boy eveni f you dont like the way he says it. in that regard it is about you, not him. hmmmmm

funny, i wonder if that is what went down with josh and a little friendly back room hustle and viola a deal made and brokered by the griz in our favor. as mr kirk said or more to paraphrase to denote it is my understanding of what he said, no telling what these guys will do to try and “negotiate” what they want … that is if they speak the same language intead of greek. gee collusion anyone and here we sit … do we buy into the crap? i guess so, as that is all we have got if this is how one wants to entertain themselves.

i often wonder if the “referreeing” is anything short of the judging at an international skating event with a russian in it or a boxing match promoted by the same guy that models the same hair do as chills. how does on refrain from being a bit cynical as time goes on? hmmmm.

simple mantra, follow the money.

or the beat goes on.

By A Thinking Fan

August 14, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

ASG needs to get back on local TV. They need a lucrative TV deal to help pull them out of this self-inflicted situation…

By travis

August 14, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

a few things…

1. we will keep bibby if we are above .500 by the Feb. deadline

2. if horford has another monster year, i think that the hawks should make serious overtures to this guy in the form of an extension.

3. pray for speedy’s return. we can do some serious wheeling and dealing with the bibby trade, if he is healthy

4. if we are 5games below .500 by the break, i think that woody gets the axe.

By kirknga

August 14, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Ah look at this…a bit of love for ASG for signing of Murray! Hawks should be very close to the tax threshold. Solid financial commitment for a 37-win team.

HeyKirkLookHere(or whoever),

Thanks, but I saw no point in calling attention to that particular miscue. By now, pointing out the irony and hypocrisy evident by some people isn’t really worth the effort.

Love the “letter licker” moniker though.

By AtlFlavor

August 14, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

The signing of Murray spells the end for Speedy. But he has managed staying on the team for 2 years barely playing so no surprise if he still picks up a check for being 4 down on the charts again this year. We signed some good players, but mostly guards.Dont forget Chills was 6’8. This is the NBA. We need BIGS. I would rather have 1 Vet BIG than 4 or 5 guards. JJ is going to play 38 to 40 mins. He is going to take lions share of the shots. So why stack up on guards? Hunter is a good shooter, but not strong enough to play inside. Marvin Josh or AL pick up 2 quick ones, you bring in Morris Pachullia Evans?? I know the home team is losing big bucks but we could have really tried to bite the bullet to get K. Brown F Elson J Mag. Even just 2 of the 3. November is going to be WILD in the A T L . Elections UGA trying to win a NC Falcons trying to get back to Win column and the HAWKS trying not to go 0 and 8 with all these ROAD games to start the year. Mannnnn this is gonna be a ride!!!!

By doc

August 14, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

kirk, it ebbs and flows like a tide. glancing over where you spend a bit of time at mib dob blog it seems the tide is rightly going out.

did you find any interest in the story of pampering, hmmm wasnt that what we just were bantering about two days ago, rather timely, no? aj pegged it pretty close?

By kirknga

August 15, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Hard to compare the MIB blog with this one for a variety of reasons, but there is a fickle streak in many Atlanta fans.

By doc

August 15, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

heh heh heh, meant tampering but pampering could be appropriate as well.

By doc

August 15, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

kirk a bad team is a bad team, braves were set to implode if the chips didnt fall right and they didnt. unfortunately there isnt much in the cubbard, listening to mazzone today wasnt exactly fortifying in the near outlook for the braves, suggests there isnt much to hang ones hat on in the braves farms or present staff. he just wasnt a believer in morton who has gotten a lot of good press from the arizona league on up. been a .500 ball club now for more than two years now and i guess fans are just now figuring it out. unfortuantely they are falling fast below that, dropping like a stone. glavine has made out like a bandit hadnt he? talk abut playing your cards right.

hope springs eternal though like the tide and it will turn. tough to see it go out though after so many good years. dont know if they are fickle or spoiled at times. it just takes a little more fortitude as a hawks fan. it takes a whole lot of fortitude as a falcons fan. looks like the fan in atlanta doesnt really have much to be fickle about, what is it loserville. remember that title and how good that one felt?

By HB Ando

August 15, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this

The obvious explanation that eludes some of you, regarding the elimination of Bibby’s expiring contract, is that future draft picks have attached cap value. And, as a team that’s net transactions, over the previous years, saw the loss of 5 first rounders (2 for Joe, Diaw, Shelden and Childress) and 2 seconds (for Bibby and A. Johnson), not including the increasingly likely outcome that two other early second -rounders, in Salim and Solo, will be moving on, without compensation, for the sum total of Joe Johnson and the expiring contract of an overpaid, lost-a-step PG, Mike Bibby.

And no, I don’t think it’s in our immediate interests to load up on draft picks, for the purpose of adding even younger players. But I’ve been preaching asset management forever. And accumulating a couple of picks, for use in subsequent transactions, for much needed, legitimate, veteran help, in exchange for Bibby, makes a lot of sense to me.

As far as an off-hand comment about Yi over Horford, I probably wasted 3 dozen posts on different ways to optimize the two first rounders we had. I don’t care enough to go find posts, around the same ti me frame, where I most likely ran with Horford as our clear choice at 3.

But how many times do I have to say I don’t mind being wrong before some of you hopelessly, unhealthily fixated cyber stalkers find something more interesting to do than spend, quite literally, HOURS, perusing old blog archives, in search of the occasional opportunity to “prove” old Ando wrong.

I don’t know how many times I’ve said it, but it seems necessary again: it’s just a silly basketball blog. And some of you really need to get a life if you’ve got nothing better to do than perpetuate a crusade against a largely indifferent participant here.

I’m no different than anyone else here. I have my opinions, and I use this blog as a forum to express them.

BA, I suggest you redirect your energy into finding a new job, to replace your admittedly lame one. All the Ando bashing in the world won’t make you happy. And it won’t make the Hawks legitimate.

Babble on, fellas……..

By BA

August 15, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

Damn, doc- “elucidating”? Nice word- I had to look it up!

Big Ray- yours is a valid point. If one believes that Williams/Horford/Smith are going to be exclusively starting forwards, eventually someone, probably Williams, won’t be here in a couple of years.

However, for Marvin Williams to make $10 million-plus a year, one of two things would have to happen: The ASG will OFFER him that much (how likely would THAT be) or some other team would have to offer him that much. We don’t know what kind of year he’ll turn in, but lets assume he stays consistent- roughly 15 ppg and 5 boards.

If Josh Smith (who’s arguably further along, developement-wise, than Marvin) got ZERO offers until the $11 million sheet from Memphis last week, what are the chances Williams draws that much interest?

It’s all predicated on winning. Humor me: if they win, go as far as the East Finals, for example, wouldn’t that go a long way towards keeping the roster intact?

My point is, NOBODY expected this young team to come within ONE win of knocking of the best team in the league. Whatever any of us thought about the players, we didn’t expect that. It was a serious ray (forgive me) of hope. This offseason, the brass actually went out and spent (for them) a FORTUNE retaining Smith and filling out the roster.

As far as Woodson this season (and this will put me in the minority for sure), I think he’ll have more options, and without his back against the wall, he’ll expand the rotation. I’d like to think they’ll take advantage of Flip Murray and cut back on our All-Star’s minutes. Picture this: a fresher Joe Johnson for the entire fourth quarter when you’re down by five.

I’ll take my chances with that. No matter how “undersized” our frontcourt is!

By BA

August 15, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

Thanks for your concern (with my employement?) Ando, I picked up a new one today. The stalker thing was cute. I doubt anybody spent (or “wasted”) any more time than you did on your aforementioned draft-related posts. You’d be suprised how much energy I have- plenty left for this captivating undertaking.

By kirknga

August 15, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this

doc, the Braves and the Hawks and the Falcons all present franchises in different places.

For the sake of brevity I’ll just say that the Braves were built to win this year using a formula farm-raised players with key veteran additions. It is a formula that has worked marvelously for them in the past and would have this time as well except for the injuries. No team survives when 4/5’s of it starting rotation, plus it’s closer, co=closer, and primary setup man all lost for significant amounts of time.

Add to that an oft-injured star, a player thought to be on the brink of stardom suddenly take a downturn, and a transplanted star who produced great stats yet the team seldom benefited from his offensive production.

With the Hawks you have a young core as well, and it appears that ASG is taking a page from the Braves by keeping core players and adding veteran role players to a roster where veterans will such as Bibby and JJ will dominate the ball offensively.

You win with talent, but you win with veterans who have been “there” and on this team, that means the two starting guards. Bibby isn’t going anywhere folks, and with the addition of Murray, the Hawks have insured they don’t fall to false hope again with Hampton..er…Speedy.

Will Liberty Media spend in the same proportion as ASG has this offseason, not likely. I doubt they will come close to baseball’s threshold as ASG has this Summer. CC Sabathia, to me, is akin to what Josh Smith was for many of you this summer. I’m tired of hearing he’s fat, when the guy wins and I expect an the Braves to go after him full-throttle since they announced they have money to spend.

Fans remain fickle on both sides. Here no love for ASG or Woodie. With the Braves, ambivalence towards Cox and Liberty. This despite one team with a recent history of success and the other with an opposite history. Same fickleness, despite demonstably different results. That’s my fellow fans in Atlanta.

By Sautee

August 15, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Ray

You 8:05 p.m. post was excellent.

Kirk

Nice post comparing the Braves approach with the Hawks. I’d love to see CC (nice alliteration, eh?) in a Braves uni.

But, as far as Atlanta fans being fickle, that exists in every sports town, just differing degrees. But, yes, Atlanta has less of a glittering sports history than some of the “older” places where sports franchises were original to the leagues. And, Atlanta is one of the most transient cities in the country. So, therefore fewer “longtime” fans, and more “fickleness”. I am an Atlanta native, so I qualify as a “longtime” fan.

And even you, Kirk, a “longtime” fan, can be fickle:

From 11:02 last night:

Ah look at this…a bit of love for ASG for signing of Murray!

and then from 3:03 a.m. (when do you sleep?):

Fans remain fickle on both sides. Here no love for ASG or Woodie.

Kirk, you seem to think that I enjoy pointing out spelling errors, but that’s NOT the case. What I have pointed out in many of your posts were inadvertent errors that actually changed the meaning of your post. I have also pointed out inconsistencies in your statements, (see above)……(which I’ve also done to most of the long time posters here at one time or another, and have had done to me as well). Is it “stick-poking”? Absolutely, but NOT with any intent other than to tease a fellow fan. And I don’t lose sight, despite any disagreement with ANY poster, that we are all here (well, most of us) because we are fools for Hawks love.

I did this (ad nauseum to some) to try and get you to slow down and post what you actually meant. I think you’ll have to admit that you have, at times and likely in haste, said things in reverse of what you meant. Don’t make me look it up, or hire BA to do it for me. ;-)

We are not face-to-face here, so all we have are words. More important to some than others, and that’s fine. And we cannot hear inflections other than capitalization, italics, and bolding of text. Words are what “we got”, and that can create misunderstandings that seldom would exist if we were face to face. The downside of this is that for some, the anonymity emboldens them to be more vociferous in their personal attacks then they would face-to-face. There’s nothing I’ll ever say to you on this blog that I wouldn’t say face-to face.

So understand that I’m NOT trying to be a “bully” by bringing up what you see as insignificant oversights.

That is, I’m not “obessed” ;-) with any grammatical erors. ;-)

What I AM doing is, if you will, “constructive criticism” regarding how your post is/was being PERCEIVED. And that’s because I understood in many cases that your posts were NOT coming across as you intended (Isn’t that how you and Ray got sideways in the beginning?). Take this as you will, but understand that it’s NOT about spelling errors except where they actually change the meaning of what you posted. (closet / closest). It’s for the sake of clarity. If I’m EVER being unclear (which has happened all too often) I appreciate being called on it, even if I disagree with the style of the calling out. I’d venture to say that many of the arguments on the blog are begun because of a lack of clarity in whichever post began the argument. Or in a lack of clarity in the perception of that original post.

Now, am I being small-minded,and niggling or generous and magnanimous? Probably somewhere in between, but it’s certainly not from some evil bent towards you. Unless you just want to go there. I don’t.

By newkid

August 15, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Embarrassment of riches ahead?

Looking at some of the points made by Ray, BA, AJ, and others over the past 24 hours, it occurs that major improvement opportunities may be within our wake. Here’s one of a number of possible future scenarios:

1) salary relief via expiration of Bibby, Zaza, Solo, and Speedy’s potential medical disability could yield $20 - $26 million;

2) Marvin’s RFA status coupled with improvement this year could provide S&T or re-sign opportunities;

3) a rapidly increasing dollar value versus the euro could result in Childress deciding to opt out after just one year in Greece and scamper back into the ‘arms’ of the Hawks for the 09/10 season;

4) having signed Smoove and Mo Evans to very reasonable 5 and 3 year contracts, respectively, will provide the home side even more salary flexibility if the soft and hard caps increase by an additional $3+ million per annum starting next summer;

5) a couple of upcoming draft choices to either exercise or package for additional veteran help; and

6) the outside possibility that Morris is a real sleeper could make it less important to pursue an extremely costly 5 next summer.

Who knows, if we manage a compettive year and show real future promise, maybe Iverson decides next summer he wants to spend his last 2-3 years in the league in a Hawks uniform at a pedestrian $9 - $10 million per year.

By MannyT

August 15, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

newkid Optimism is a wonderful thing. Some of your points may happen and it will be an even more exciting time around here.

Even in this summer of no draft picks, we found our way to excitement and some interesting roster changes.

I would not worry about the value of the dollar versus the euro for Chills. His return is most likely a function of opportunities and NBA/US dollars available for him.

By this time next summer, I hope I don’t have to see anymore not broke, just not liquid lines about Hawks ownership.

Sautee NIce job of highlighting the differences between blogging opinions and soft blogging for grammar only.

Mike don’t focus on some bargain buyout for Woody. Most deals in the NBA lock in that cash for the duration of the contract. If he leaves, it will be with a sack of cash. I just hope all the personnel changes fit whatever it is that he tries to do and we get more wins.

doc All the big money is drying up now. So I get we will have to follow the little money deals or take a break. I’m good because the Olympics have most of my attention for another 10 days, then we are almost to September & football which will carry me to the NBA.

WIthout the Worlwide Sports Political Party, I’d be suffering right now. Baseball just does not do it for me.

Local Olympics moment—UGa gal leads Heptathlon after day 1. Good chance that she closes the deal tomorrow.

Citius, Altius, Fortius

By randy

August 15, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Newkid—I would rather see Rosie O Donnel in a bikini than Iverson in a Hawks Uniform. I certainly would never watch again if that overrated punk makes his way to Atl.

Atleast it is football season again…

By newkid

August 15, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

WOW, that’s one hell of an image Randy.

By Sautee

August 15, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

MannyT

Now was that a left handed compliment? Careful Manny, Samuel will get the wrong idea about you. ;-)

Also it occurred to me that my former acronym:

WHOLE (Woeful Hawks Ownership Lowers Expectaions)

should be changed in light of the recent signings. So now should it be “raises expectations”? Let’s see that would be: W H O…. uh oh!

Well they ARE spending money now. ;-)

By ray

August 15, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Riddle me this, looking at the dire straights of the ASG, and the fact that they are loosing all that cash, Woody might be here for the remainder of his contract. Makes Ya Go Hmmmmmmmm

Proof that I am not the only one who says “Riddle me This” and then answers the riddle….

Thankyou Mike is Back

By Chris B

August 15, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Atlanta fans are not fickle, just smart consumers. Tickets, Gas, Parking and food cost just too much to waste on a team that is not competitive. I am down to only 10 or so Hawks and Thrashers games a year; down from being a season ticket holder just a few years ago.

When I came to Atlanta 10 years ago, I dumped my lifetime allegiances to the Lakers, Raiders and Kings and went with the Atlanta teams and I will stay with them, but by God I will demand that they provide some value for my sports dollar.

I want to be at the games, but I won’t pay money to get my soul sucked out like I have lately. I will start the season out just like always, down there every chance I get, but I want to see a team that gets after it and a coach that has a coherent strategy.

The signing of Flip Murray surprised me a bit, but I guess he will do for what will be asked of him. The $14 million question will be, will Acie be ready to step in when Bibby’s contract is up. No pressure!

If O. Hunter performs like I think he can Solomon Jones may have a problem. Hey could be on the far end of the bench drinking Gatorade or worse yet working for me at the phone company.

It should be an interesting year, at least I hope.

By MannyT

August 15, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Sautee While I appreciate the sinister tag, it wasn’t meant to be too tricky. You made it clear that you were getting clarification and moving on to actual ideas. I gave an examples (on prior blog August 11 at 4:53PM) of folks that will use a post only to say something along the lines of you cannot spell well. Their time would be better spent over here. If this were the NFL blog, I’d call them PK bloggers, noting their position in the sports hierarchy next to a picture of Bill Gramatica!

It also seems that you would want the next member of the ASG to fit the following brief description

Professional Innovator, Makes Profits ;-)

I would not be surprised if the RISE UP campaign started with something like Winning Hawks Ownership Raises Expectations ;-)

As long as I have hope for the Euro player and don’t fawn over his boy Rick and other NBA professionals, Samuel likely sees me as another crazy blogger.

Chris B You are really tempting me on the smart consumer thing. There is waaay to much fun with consumer behavior down that road. Fan choice rarely has to do with rational thought, thus the name fan-atic. I think gas, tickets, parking, and food are all cheaper in Atlanta than Los Angeles. There are also lots of ways to define competitive (which are likely to vary for many consumers.)

The ASG has a great opportunity to grow interest in the Hawks off of the playoff energy that was here for a handful of games last season. If they pull the right emotional strings, people will show up. If not, I get extra legroom. I think the ASG and most business people would agree with me…I’d rather have an idiot customer with lots to spend than a very reasonable guy w/o money. As a business, they have a need to make a profit.

I think they could have been the customers of the year if they had not bought the Hawks & Thrashers, yet spent $40+ mil over the past 3 years on their sports fanatacism. I am imagining a special type of season ticket holder event that, like an Amex Centurion/Black card—is way beyond the perks I get. Gentlemen, meet Inez-she will be your hostess for the game tonight…

Winning Hawks Ownership Raises… er, uh RISE UP ;-)

By MannyT

August 15, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

To be clear, I was not suggesting that the ASG participate in any illegal activities. I would expect them to have casino host(ess) type services for any regular customers that were fans enough to drop millions in a season.

So, yes I would get someone to go to Mexico, get Inez and bring her here if that was what the fan version of the ASG wanted.

This post approved by my blogging legal representatives ;-)

By Sautee

August 15, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

MannyT

ROFL! Great stuff, man.

So do the Grammatica-like bloggers sprain a finger celebrating their successful posts? ;-)

Oh, wait, that was Martin, not Bill.

By Sautee

August 15, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

MannyT

I would not be surprised if the RISE UP campaign started with something like Winning Hawks Ownership Raises Expectations ;-)

Puts a whole new spin on acronympho, eh?

By kirk-n-paste

August 15, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

But, as far as Atlanta fans being fickle, that exists in every sports town, just differing degrees. But, yes, Atlanta has less of a glittering sports history than some of the “older” places where sports franchises were original to the leagues. And, Atlanta is one of the most transient cities in the country. So, therefore fewer “longtime” fans, and more “fickleness”. I am an Atlanta native, so I qualify as a “longtime” fan.

I am not fickle. I am the perfect fan, seeing the balance in all things at all times. My discernment, understanding, and vision transcend that of all fans. It is an example from which you may learn if you are ready.

And even you, Kirk, a “longtime” fan, can be fickle:

From 11:02 last night:

Ah look at this…a bit of love for ASG for signing of Murray!

and then from 3:03 a.m. (when do you sleep?):

Fans remain fickle on both sides. Here no love for ASG or Woodie.

Are you mocking me? I am not fickle, and I am the master of cut and paste. Your cut and paste kung fu is weak, old man.

Kirk, you seem to think that I enjoy pointing out spelling errors, but that’s NOT the case. What I have pointed out in many of your posts were inadvertent errors that actually changed the meaning of your post. I have also pointed out inconsistencies in your statements, (see above)……(which I’ve also done to most of the long time posters here at one time or another, and have had done to me as well). Is it “stick-poking”? Absolutely, but NOT with any intent other than to tease a fellow fan. And I don’t lose sight, despite any disagreement with ANY poster, that we are all here (well, most of us) because we are fools for Hawks love.

Lecture.

I did this (ad nauseum to some) to try and get you to slow down and post what you actually meant. I think you’ll have to admit that you have, at times and likely in haste, said things in reverse of what you meant. Don’t make me look it up, or hire BA to do it for me. ;-)

You are being a meanie.

We are not face-to-face here, so all we have are words. More important to some than others, and that’s fine. And we cannot hear inflections other than capitalization, italics, and bolding of text. Words are what “we got”, and that can create misunderstandings that seldom would exist if we were face to face. The downside of this is that for some, the anonymity emboldens them to be more vociferous in their personal attacks then they would face-to-face. There’s nothing I’ll ever say to you on this blog that I wouldn’t say face-to face.

Irrelevant b.s.

That is, I’m not “obessed” ;-) with any grammatical erors. ;-)

You are obessed. Your obession puzzles me. Not am dyslexic am I. Talking you what don’t I are know about.

What I AM doing is, if you will, “constructive criticism” regarding how your post is/was being PERCEIVED. And that’s because I understood in many cases that your posts were NOT coming across as you intended (Isn’t that how you and Ray got sideways in the beginning?). Take this as you will, but understand that it’s NOT about spelling errors except where they actually change the meaning of what you posted. (closet / closest). It’s for the sake of clarity. If I’m EVER being unclear (which has happened all too often) I appreciate being called on it, even if I disagree with the style of the calling out. I’d venture to say that many of the arguments on the blog are begun because of a lack of clarity in whichever post began the argument. Or in a lack of clarity in the perception of that original post.

Bullying.

Now, am I being small-minded,and niggling or generous and magnanimous? Probably somewhere in between, but it’s certainly not from some evil bent towards you. Unless you just want to go there. I don’t.

Yes, you are a tyrant. And fickle. And a bully. And a lecturer. I have not asked you to reach out to me. Picking stop me on.

By doc

August 15, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

ROFL!!!

i see now not only do we have one alpha boy blogger but we now have the transcendent supreme priest on high of fans. it is comforting to know perfection has been declared among our midst.

funny, i thought true perfection reigned at all times among all men.

go hawks!

By ray

August 15, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

Sorry. I’m not sure which of my personalities did that. They’re all pleading the fifth and one of them hired Johnny Cochran.

Hmmmm….that must have been the guilty one….

By ray

August 15, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Oooops. Is that spelled Cochrane? Not all of my personalities can spell so good.

By ray

August 15, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Well, I have to go now. Two of my personalities are tired, and one of them has an appointment in the morning with the professional help that Kirk says he needs. The others like to talk about him when he’s asleep (which makes things frightfully difficult while the rest of us are trying to rest). We’ll see y’all tomorrow. Seriously. Literally. Figuratively. Hell, we don’t know…

By Sautee

August 15, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Ray

Man, y’all ain’t right.

By MannyT

August 15, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Sautee I checked before I posted. Originally my thought was the same as yours.

In fact, it was Bill. Note pic at bottom of link. Source for this link chosen just for kirknga, ray and his cast of characters

I think the PK Gramatica bloggers get carpal tunnel, sprains, or other injuries by trying get the spelling error up fastest. They fall in the soft blogging category just above the first crowd. Not that I am against someone with a quick response, but if the entire response is first it’s the ultimate in weakness. I’d put it on the same level with getting the “cold shower placebo pill” in a Viagra pharmaceutical trial.

The acronympho appreciates a double entendre.

August 23rd. The next date that the Hawks want many young fellas to RISE UP!

I would not be surprised if the new A Town Dancers are there as it is also Select a Seat day…hmmmm

By mykhalc

August 15, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Sekou, if this how you see it?? or what WOODSON is givin’ ya?? as we all know CHILS was first off the bench for MARVIN. is that not the role EVANS will assume goin’ into camp?? if not, then where’s MARVIN’s bkup?? i see FLIP bkup’n up JJ, EVANS bkup’n MARVIN , and of course variations dependin’ on matchups. anyway, lemme know what you think. thanks

By ant banks

August 15, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

YEAH!!! After 300 posts Sekou finally gets off his duff and gives us a nugget about Bibby and the back court for the Hawks. Way to go Sekou!! I will be waiting on the front court next week.

By #21=Top50,1stballot

August 15, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

A

While it is obvious I did not originally coin the phrase Rise Up for use to describe “our Atlanta Hawks”, I do have to say that I have at least been the steward of it these past two years. I would at least appreciate some sort of recognition in lieu of remuneration for its employment. At the very least I’ll settle for a Paul Revere(ian) recognition- to MannyT’s William Dawes. Ha. After all, both were instrumental in rallying the locals to a call to arms, in Boston no less, to combat tyranny and oppression from a inept ruling party (ASG?) to take back what is theres, most importantly to coalesce and ….

RISE UP

By Hoops

August 16, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this

What about this trade

Our roster is looking much better, but we still need a Big. This trade would be a gamble, but it might prove to be a good one for both teams.

Call the Suns and offer Law for R. Lopez. The Suns get a future point guard to replace Nash in the next two years. The Hawks get a 7’0” post that is unproven, but has much promise. The Hawks now have the depth @ point to make this trade. The salaries would work for this trade to be approved.

Is this too much of a gamble for the Hawks?

By RA

August 16, 2008 7:09 AM | Link to this

Hoops I think it would be too big of a gamble. It opens us up, once again, to losing a player with a huge upside and possibly getting very little in return. Here’s the thing, our front three is about as solid as you’re going to have. If Za Za can bring back that fire that he showed in the playoffs and Solo can become more production thna potential, they’ll be fairly set up front, barring injuries. I say patience.

By Swish

August 16, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

Hey guys. Looking for the best place on earth to voice your opinions about the Hawks and all things sports? Visit: http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php?autocom=portal

With over 2,000 members and 330,000 posts, Hawksquawk.net is the premier NBA message board. Head on over and read the thoughts of knowledgeable, funny, and die hard hawks fans. Hawksquawk is over seven years old.

-Swish of Hawksquawk (not spam!)

By MannyT

August 16, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

The British are coming…and look the dude on the horse has a Dominique jersey.

hmmm

#21=Top50,1stballot Not trying to swipe your thunder. The RISE UP thing was in the context of the foolishness.

However, when Dominique played for Boston he did not wear 21 so that might be a confusing time warp cross reference for the New Englanders ;-)

It’s all good in the neighborhood…until the Applebee’s folks come after this one.

Trademark PAIN.

By _sturt_

August 16, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Swish, actually it’s more like 9 years, counting our time on ezboard… but then again, who’s counting? ;)

By MannyT

August 16, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

If I go over to HawkSquawk do I get a free subscription to SI or some swag?

I think I have read the thoughts of knowledgeable, funny, and die hard hawks fans (in varying combinations)…here.

If there is value in our blogging, do we get tagged as professionals? Fortunately, pros can compete in the Olympics now, so I don’t have to worry about losing my Olympic blogging credentials.

If I am not a pro, can I be a free agent? hmmm

By MannyT

August 16, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Privyet Pargo!

Guess who is going to play for Moscow Dynamo in Russia?

How long before they change the NBA lane to that trapezoidal shape?

Worldwide competition will change things. Good global compensation CRAP for the players.

By doc

August 16, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

actually swish i have found the best place for me to participate in a blog. thanks for the invite even though i am sure nothing but the coolest and the best frequent it. kinda creature of habit and all. if you wish you may come here and participate as well. sense i dont have any pull here i will extend you an unofficial invite.

swish, it is really fun to be here as we sometimes have great guests come here, even hawks employees and maybe even management have visited this site to brighten our mood. do they visit your site as well or is it run by the hawks? any way i am sure if when they come it is like they have a sign written all over them in flashing lights or is that your job, too? it does make us smile real deeply though, almost laugh it is sooo pitiful and shameless.

have a great weekend, swish! gee, thanks for the hit as all numbers count you know. dern thoughtful of you.

go hawks!!!!

By Swish

August 16, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Doc,

No problem, I understand. I too am a creature of habit. I choose to squawk over this because of the many members, insights, and setup.

Our site is run by three guys who have generously donated their finances and time. I have heard that we have had various members of the organization visit, players, management, etc. Someone said at least Marvin Williams reads and maybe someone else I am not sure.

We have a Hawksquawk night at Philips Arena. My reason for posting was because we are surprised over there that no one else knows about us. Its truly an amazing place. Read around for a while, you’ll find out.

manny,

Nope, no SI, as we at the squawk believe that the national media is a crapshoot. I will not go so far as to say Hawksquawk is a better place, that is not my place to say, but the format is easier and better IMO. Just read around…you can easily see what I mean. again the purpose of this was to get the word out…we have 2000 members but were kind of perplexed die hards like y’all didn’t know ‘bout us.

By doc

August 16, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

thanks again swish, kind of like the friends and dversity here and dont really have time to even look at another site.

as they say … y’alll come back now.

By MannyT

August 16, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Swish My SI comment was not a function of your business partners, just one of those business switching questions. If I switch my TV, phone, internet, cell, etc service, they offer stuff.

I have peeked in on HawkSquawk sometimes. I know you recently changed your software. I just never made the effort to register. I never had to register here so it was quicker to jump in. Some of the locals here might have difficulty registering all of their personalities ;-) If I’ll read loosely translated Greek to keep up with Chills, I’ll read almost anything.

Seems to me that the ASG would do themselves well to corral the blogosphere and try to leverage some business out of it. Not hard to find fervent fans if you look in the right places.

Now if I can get Sekou to open a store and name this thing, we might have something going. True for all of the AJC blogs. I know where they can get a great deal on all those identity things that people enjoy. You HawkSquawkers already have a swag venue, but if you decide to expand your options let me know as this part is shameless business plug CRAP ;-)

By MannyT

August 16, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

doc You are being recruited. You are supposed to hold on to that answer for awhile. Maybe there is a car for uncle doc. A job for baby doc-ruler of 1/2 of island, etc.;-) Even if you don’t want the iffy stuff, don’t give that commitment.

Maybe Sekou is holding on to a blogger of the month free newspaper coupon with your name on it!

Enjoy your theoretical free agent time while someone is working on a way to monetize blogging.

One thing I took from Chills experience with the Hawks—keep your eyes and ears open to the unexpected.

That’s my big picture CRAP ;-)

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 16, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

LMAO @ Hawksquawk… I tried registering there a couple of weeks ago (admittedly to pimp my video). It took them 4 or 5 days to “approve” my registration, and it still wouldn’t let me post after that. I think I’ll stick to this blog.

By ptrepdaa

August 16, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

first ,i think the flip-evans singings not only make up for lossing j.chill(we still have his nba rights which is still an asset which can also be used in a trade).it also seems we saved money and added an extra vet.to maximise our roster we dont really have start all of our best players.

By ptrepdaa

August 16, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

bibby/jj/smith/al/morris should start.now two guys are now in their natural postions.this would give you better defense and allow you to have a dangerous bench.this will allow us to rest jj(unless he’s red hot).also al and smith probably wouldnt get in quick foul trouble.instead we would have the advantage.we should also have a dangerous 3ball percentage.we still need 1more big(6’11-7ft).just to jam the middle.bibby is going to make u haters eat crow.last season he was hurt and didnt know the system or his teammates.the qb has to know the plays and not have to think about them.law should also be alot better.and if speedy is health we have a little extra help with defense.

By ptrepdaa

August 16, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

think back to the playoffs.two things jumped out at me.it seem that woodie out coached rivers.doc had every advantage including the assistant coach who devised that killer defense.also knowone pushed that d to adjust like jj did(not kobe,james or the gaurds of the d.im not saying jj’s better than those guys im just stating what i saw!

By ray

August 16, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Team USA looks damn good out there. I know it is not the medal round, but who cares. You work the way you train, and you play the way you practice. If you save your “best” for later, it may not be good enough by then. I seem to remember some unpatriotic comments made earlier about hoping that Team USA got beat down, and that coach Kryzewski was overrated. I see that this opinion has changed now. These guys are for real.

GO USA!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 17, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this

Yo this blog has been up for way too long, it’s starting to freeze my computer when I load it. We need a new blog Sekou…

By RA

August 17, 2008 5:30 AM | Link to this

It’s no good Najeh. Sekou’s probably working on his next article on the front court, and nobody is else is going to write because they’d have to say something positive. I’ve been barking up that tree since last week…

By doc

August 17, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

manny t i guess i grew up doing it the old way, to just earn it. as far as hand outs, dont mind them, just dont look for them.

By MannyT

August 17, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

Do your thing doc The HawkSquakers came looking for you. Incentives are not new. Think back to S&H Green stamps at the grocery store. The old version shopping here is better than shopping there.

Not the easiest to hear, but have a flash back to John Houseman using your line in 2nd half of link

By doc

August 17, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

we all knew that things cost more to get the green stamps. no free lunch. it all costs, buy into illusion if you want all you want. as a marketer you unserstand perfectly. aj follow the money mantra in effect at all times.

otherwise the old fashion way, we earn it and put it in the mattress. heh heh

By Samuel

August 17, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Ray,

They look good. Coach K, or somebody, has really driven the defensive pressure concept into them. They definately look like their headed for Gold. Still doesn’t change my opinion about Coach K though.

Maybe this will encourage him to try the Big Leagues where we can see his coaching wisdom desplayed on a nightly basis, huh. I could see him taking Opie’s place in Jersey when Bron Bron comes to town.

By I.MUS WRITE

August 17, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Yeah-Poop…. This blog has been up way to dam long. Had the same problems with the hawksquawk. I see a need for another big man….I wonder what it would take to get Camby from L.A. -Kaman seems to be the main guy there maybe we could get Camby for Speedy/ZAZA/2010 2nd…….

By ray

August 17, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Samuel,

I wouldn’t say that Coach K’s abilities in college and apparently in the Olympics translate to the NBA at all. In college, his record speaks for itself. Much like that of Nolan Richardson, Dean Smith, John Calipari, Paul Hewitt (somewhat of a young career compared to the others, but burgeoning all the same), Calhoun, Pitino, etc.

The Olympics feature the international game, which is just so much different from the NBA, hence the fact that some of Europe’s “best” just not being able to make it in our game, and our best struggling in the near past to make a good mark.

I give Coach K and his crew, and most certainly the players, credit for coming together and coming up with a way to win. Dominate, even. Coach K and crew gets credit for deciding on a winning concept: the best pressure defense in the world (I think, anyway), while letting the natural offensive talents of our guys come out naturally, instead of forcing it into sets that tend to be necessary for less athletic and talented players. And the players get credit for not only buying into the system, but executing it in fine fashion.

And yet…a man must know his limitations. I think Coach K wanted to expand his horizons much like many others. But it’s how he chose to do that. I think he wanted to do it, but not tarnish his record, image, legacy, etc. Like I said, his college record speaks for itself. He’s a good recruiter and a good coach. He employs winning systems. The NBA is a different deal altogether. So are the Olympics. The difference is the amount of control. This might sound bad in some ways (even conspiratorial), but this is what I see:

In the Olympics, the head coach has a say big-time. All Coach K needed was the backing and approval of Jerry Colangelo. He, Jerry, and others get to pick who they want for Team USA. In the NBA, until a coach reaches the level of a Popovich, Sloan, or even a Jackson….he’s always on the hottest seat. And his input is limited to the discretion of the GM (who isn’t even the top dog in the system).

What a perfect way to take your profession to a higher level, maintaining a large measure of control, and having the opportunity of a lifetime to build a legacy that could be viewed as greater than college ball. I think Coach K knows he couldn’t do all that in the NBA. And who’s to say that coaching in the NBA is what defines a coach?

By doc

August 17, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

where i give coach k a lot of cred is taking in d’antoni and allowing him to teach him something about international ball and an up tempo game. k admits that this has influenced his game and how he coaches, that is reflected in how duke changed their style a bit over the past two years.

this also may represent how d’antoni is when he has unlimited pools of mney to spend on his team. just imagine if he had had this in phoenix over the last four years. i imagine k. thomas wouldnt have been jettisoned along with tim thomas and jj wouldnt have gotten away. it could be scary as d’antoni gets to make a relationship with the very best stars and knows more about them than any nba coach in the game today and vice versay. this and being in a big market could get spooky and look like the steinbrenner yankees of old.

ray, maybe coach k coudnt do all that with the nets or anyone else but maybe d’antoni can along with a scary gm, donnie walsh, if he gets to pay big market instead of being hampered playing small market indiana. it will be interesting to see how it unfolds over the next 5 years.

By Astro Joe

August 17, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

MannyT & Doc, I post over at Hawksquawk too. I was in my Anakin Joe days when I joined. It’s a good place, although this is still the “friend with benefits” that I most enjoy.

Fearless prediction alert. The NBA has another big trade brewing. I’d bet involving the Knicks (if you have an awesome memory, you may recall that the NBA has a team in New York City). I can’t imagine that D’Antoni and Chris Duhon will be the only off-season moves by Donnie Basketball.

Sekou, I disagree with the assessment that Flip and Mo will replace Chill. They may replace his points but I doubt that they will replace his efficiency. Sorry, but replacing a 55% shooter who never required that a play be run for him and averaged double figures and excelled coming off the bench, well, those guys aren’t easy to find. Not to mention his knack for finding open space under the basket. But maybe I’m just biased because I liked afro-man. I liked his energy, his intelligence, his intangibles and his team-first play. And I hate that Sund messed up the negotiations this year and further damaged the relationship by trying to diminsh his contributions as Chill chilled on the Mediterranean beach.

By ray

August 17, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

Doc, I have absolutely nothing against D’Antoni. He’s got a hell of a system, and Sarver/Kerr screwed it up for him when they had that panic attack, signing the world’s largest wannabe rapper and ex-deputy. It wasn’t going to work, and now D’Antoni is gone. Funny, nobody screwed with Don Nelson like that, that I can recall….

I have no doubts that Donnie Walsh will turn things around in New York. Mike D’Antoni was the start of it. Duhon was a small step (let’s face it, he will NOT be the starting pg of the future).

Joe, let me push a button with you (friendly-like, not maliciously) and pull up an old argument of your dear friend Ando: much as I too miss the Afro-ed one, imagine if we had drafted Iguodala or Deng, and this still happened….

By Ken Strickland

August 17, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

I like the signing of Murray and Evans. We can run our isolations and pick and rolls without having Bibby and JJ in the gm, which gives us the ability to apply OFF pressure for 4qtrs, unlike last yr. Last yr, Bibby, JJ, Acie and Salim were the only players on the team that could create their own shot. Now, we have Bibby, JJ, Acie, Murray and Evans. This combination gives us more range, versatility and depth.

By jhan

August 17, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

AJ - I was also a huge fan of the afro-man. Let’s be realistic though - he played 30 minutes a game and averaged 11/4/1 - Given 30 minutes a game, Evans or Flip would average at least that.

You are correct in that he will be missed. What we will miss is Chills unselfishness & willingness to be a team player. I don’t think his production will be missed though.

By Astro Joe

August 17, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

jhan, agreed. Except that Evans and Flip will require more shots to deliver those same 11 points, as neither will likely shoot anything close to 55%.

Ray, I would have drafted Deng. But in all honesty, had I drafted a freshmen in Deng, I’m pretty sure that I would have NOT turned around and drafted a high schooler in Smith… that’s one “baby” followed by another at the same position (or at least that would have been my thought at the time). I’ve said it before, I would have picked the College PLayer of the Year, PG and senior with that second 1st round pick. Some guy named Jameer Nelson. So I’ll be completely honest and say that my likely picks that season would have been Deng & Jameer. And I think Chill and Smith are better (no, much better) than Deng & Jameer.

By Sautee

August 17, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Sure is quiet on the blog. Too quiet.

Guess I’ll start worrying when Tim LaHaye is the only poster! ;-)

By ray

August 17, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

True that, Joe. I was just saying, imagine having lost more than we did. Although Smith and Chill were better, the picks you had in mind were more rounded and balanced.

Everything is a chain reaction. Besides, if you were smart enough to go for Deng and Jameer, you’d be even smarter and NOT go after Marvin the very next year (already having Deng), and….oh, this is useless…but you get my drift. Well, we’ll get to complain about draft picks next year. It’ll be interesting. We’ve gone from a swing-happy draft picker to a useless tall stiff-happy draft picker…unless the ol’ leopard has changed his spots. Stay tuned…But you might want to hit “Record Future Showing” on the listings section. It will be a while before this program plays…

By BA

August 17, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

doc’s on to something. Watch out for the Knicks in a couple of years. D’Antnoni with some cash is bad news for the rest if the East. That guy Walsh is no slouch either.

By MannyT

August 17, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

I like the way ray described Coach K’s situation. Even though there is more money and prestige in the NBA, I’d rather have the job for life status and control that top NCAA coaches get.

Astro Joe What would I say over there that I wouldn’t say here? Or do you say everything in duplicate on both sites? Cut, paste, repeat? Especially since they chat it up alot over every article that Sekou posts.

The team chemistry will be different w/o Chills. The new guys bring different skills, but a little less defensive flexibility. I almost hate to say it, but it’s up to Woody to come up with a scheme that makes this team better.

Now I am stressed…good thing I’ve got 6 more days of good Olympics left. I did learn something about Men’s gymnastics and honey today 8-0

Sautee It is the slowest time of the year for the NBA. No need to worry about the lack of activity.

We could chat about Iggy’s 6yr/80 mil getting done, but the only good news in that for us is the cap space that he and Brand suck up.

Now that track & field has started I am extra geeked about the Olympics. Over the next few days, maybe I’ll find some blogs that chat up Badminton, Fencing, & Trampoline ;-)

Once every 4 years deserves some offbeat sports CRAP!

By Samuel

August 18, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

Man,

Dirk is a serious EURO PUNK.

By Sautee

August 18, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

Hey Sam, at least he’s not left-handed. Think how much more you’d hate him! ;-)

By Kel

August 18, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Any word on if they have resigned (or at least working on resigning) Mario West yet? That kid works so hard and is a great positive local role model, it would be a travesty for him not to make the roster this year.

By Keep In Mind

August 18, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

One thing for Hawks fans to think about is….. if this years team truly improves, they still own the right to Josh Childress. And if Josh excels in Greece, the Hawks would probably get some good offers to acquire him from other NBA teams. If the Hawks can turn Childress into a future First Round draft pick from another team, that would be a great deal for them.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 18, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

My Laptop is officially dead. Gotta get it fixed………….this sucks b/c classes just started back up……

PAIN

By fudd21

August 18, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Sekou Any word on Luke Jackson or Jeremy Richardson?

By Sautee

August 18, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

new blog up