Hawks

By SalimFan

August 9, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

It’s good to hear from Salim…

By doc

August 9, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

nice blog sekou, welcome back. blog z has had a few trials and needs a rest. nice suggestions of possible pick ups.

more work to be done but closer to talking bball where players are the focus rather than management.

me thinks in the long run as manny t has said this contract is short sighted and will cost more in the long run. a 6/66 would be better than 5/58. trying to come up with the funds for his next contract year one which i predict will be huge will cost them more in the end. the cat has got game. glad he is still on our side.

By SalimFan

August 9, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Great piece Sekou. It’s nice to be able to talk about somthing other than RFA status lol.

What people keep forgetting is that our team is REALLY young. Last year we saw flashes of greatness. The players have been working hard this off-season, we should see significant improvement throghout the season.

By rays

August 9, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the update, Sekou.. I was calculating the new salary cap figure, after signing Josh, and I came up with 65,000,000 as the new cap figure. If we add on the cap hold figure for Josh Childress also, we are in tax territory. Does that allow us to sign any more high salaried free agents to fill out the roster or we pretty much limited to sign minimum salary guys??

By HawkDawg

August 9, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, 1st timer poster here.

What do you think about Dorell Wright? He is young and coming off a knee injury, but is shooting percentage is really good, and he is really athletic. His knee is suppose to be healed, so his risk is much less than Livingston. The rumor out of Miami is that if someone offered a two year 6 million dollar offer Miami woujld not match. He and Evans would be a nice 6th and 7th men off the bench at the 2 and 3. He could also push Williams. What do you think?

By Mookie Blaylock

August 9, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

I have always thought Elson would be a great fit and Aaron Williams (the veteran lefty). I remember him when the Clips beat us this year and when he was with the Nets (Van Horn, Kidd, Carter, etc.)

I do wonder why we did not offer a 2nd round pick for Novak (who the Clippers just got), he can shoot.

I also wonder why a name like Quinton Ross has not been mentioned.

If we grab another vet that we unexpect, that should take the place of losing Childress, maybe.

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

glad to hear that Smoove will be ripping things up still as a Hawk. things to look forward too now……..

the end of this freakin’ divorce. the end of the Woody regimine in 2 years. big money coming off the books in 1-2 years. and a continued filling of seats in our “normally-sketchy” arena.

Josh, i hope this is the start of your first all-star season. MAKE US PROUD !

I give Sund, not the BS-ASG full credit on this 1.

By Maximus

August 9, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

I read the Bucks are going after Francisco Elson. One report said he agreed to a two-year deal with them. I haven’t heard anything official yet. He might be off the market now.

By fudd21

August 9, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Sekou Nice article. I think Livingston would be a really interesting signing. I hope we are seriously taking a look at him. Also, what is the word on Luke Jackson. i know he was at our summer camp but I heard other teams are looking at him as well. What do you feel is the possibility that he will actually be playing here this year?

By Dub C

August 9, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Good stuff Sekou, as always! Periodically, people here bash you a little, but you do a fantastic job!

Happy to hear about us matching and retaining Smoove! Obviously, the right thing to do. Now, hopefully, we can continue to complete the bench and move forward. You mentioned a number of folks (Elson, Pargo, Livingston, etc), but what are your thoughts on us actually getting any of these guys? I think Elson (although the Bucks are working hard on a deal) and Pargo would be good additions.

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

i’m also very happy to hear these 2 things about Marvin……he’s put on about 12 pounds of muscle and he’s clocking times that are his fastest ever. and he’s working on his 3 ball. this is what Dominique added late in his career and it was deadly, I can only hope he developes the same downtown-type swag!

By SalimFan

August 9, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Team USA update

Eventually im going to post the Jim Boehiem blog.

By fudd21

August 9, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Sekou Nice article. I think Livingston would be a really interesting signing. I hope we are seriously taking a look at him. Also, what is the word on Luke Jackson. i know he was at our summer camp but I heard other teams are looking at him as well. What do you feel is the possibility that he will actually be playing here this year?

By I.MUS WRITE

August 9, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

R.I.P -Burney Mack-

Elson or Magloire,Livingston,L.Jackson,O.Hunter,Gardner……..

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

rest in peace: Bernie Mac

from all the “hey brother Craig” lines to his wittyness in the “Ocean’s” movies, to a crazy “dad with kids” show….you will be missed, sir!~

By Samuel

August 9, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Cuz,

Give my props to My Boy Rick when you see him. I am so excited about this upcomming season. We have retained our core and another year for Woody and this team to mature should be terrific. Josh Smith is a Game Changer and is the Highlight factor in the Factory. He is the Joshes. No more, which Josh? He’s the only one now.

How about signing my boy, Charles Rhodes out of Jackson. I mentioned him a few weeks back before the Orlando workouts. He showed his a$$ at Vegas. He’s nasty!! He went undrafted so he’s a free agent. Dallas wants him bad but he’s weighing his options (including Europe).He’s nasty!! He and big Al made a hell of a frontcourt with the Jackson Tigers AAU Team.

We need some Mississippi Blood on this team.

By Volman

August 9, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Sekou, thanks for the great blogs in the past couple of days.

HOPEFULLY, we can all get past the bashing of the ASG and get down to BASKETBALL and what it will take to make this team legit.

For everyone, who do you think gets added (from the rest of the MLE) and then from the minimum salaries?

I’d LOVE to have Mario West back with Richardson or Luke Jackson.. If we could get Pargo or Elson also, that’d be wonderful as well.

What about you guys?

By doc

August 9, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

i give full credit to the griz for offering smith what he should have been offered by the basg from july one. in the end all the basg and sund had to do was LAZILY step forward and say thanks to all, please sign here. no insight, intelligence, nba savvy or class required to do that. shoot you didnt even have to hire a lawyer for that. what you call silent negotiation.

luckily the griz didnt want him bad enough to make the team consider. they knew what was fair all along and stepped up when they saw what they wanted to see. anyone on this blog could have handled those negotiations.

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

you’re right doc, i could have handled the deal myself. and afterwards i’d roll around on a bed full of “commission” ! could life be so easy?

we’ve got to just ante up and talk to Portland about 1 of our future second rounders for 1 of their SIXTEEN CENTERS ! i still big on the Hawks trying to pry Jeff Foster away from the Pacers. the guy can ball….he’s a legit big and he’d fit right in with this team’s direction!

most of these “floaters” are on-the-wire still for a reason. let’s go after someone that will really make a contribution this year!

By SalimFan

August 9, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Damn Bernie Mac died…..only 50 years young…..

By Sekou K. Smith

August 9, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Othello Hunter is a guy we talked about last week. He’s the new name to pencil in on your roster list, as he’ll certainly be coming to training camp with a good shot at earning a roster spot.

I know Elson is supposed to be close to singing with Milwaukee but until anything is official, he’s fodder for our discussion here.

Steamboat you know I’m a big Charles Rhodes fan. I heard he ripped it up in summer league. But I don’t know where he would fit on this roster if Hunter is already in the mix.

HawkDawg, D. Wright is a player. That knee injury came at an awful time because it seemed like he was finally getting his chance to blossom in Miami. I don’t know that he’s on the Hawks’ radar, though.

Livingston was ready to blow up when he got hurt, so if there’s any chance of him returning to form he’s a guy worth checking out.

By travis

August 9, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

ok, we know that bibby is outta here by the trade deadline with jj 13mil, smoove 11mil, bibby’s 14mil, we got almost 40mil tied up in 3 players. THE QUESTION IS…Who should we bring in by the trade deadline? No way we keep bibby through the season. thoughts?

By Ben

August 9, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Nice piece, Sekou.

I am thinking the Hawks are looking at trading Bibby now maybe for a package of 2 or 3 players.

I do not think Bibby will be on this roster at training camp.

By Reggie

August 9, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Sekou

What are the chances, the hawks make some sort of minor trade, to make the team better.

By ray

August 9, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Sekou, thanks for the info and the new blog. I think Pargo is a good addition (and he’s a veteran to boot). Whether or not he decides to come here would probably depend on not just the money, but the number of minutes he would get to play, and whether or not he buys into Woody’s system. Livingston is a gamble. We already have Claxton. However, a healthy Livingston is more potent than a healthy Claxton. But both are ifs.

I’d love to have Elson. Looks like Milwaukee wants him more (and he might want them more as well). We’ll see. Othella Harrington and the tough-as-nails Aaron Williams are both an easy upgrade over the likes of Lorenzen Wright.

What’s going on with Solo right about now?

Manny,

The points you made about the contract and its financial ramifications could lead to the idea that Smith could still be traded…albeit later. Hope not, but you never know. I’ll always maintain my stance on that though: Only if it make us the Hawks a better team. In the meantime, I’m glad to see him back. And while he has definitely gotten to see and experience the cold side of the NBA business (is there a warm side?), I think once he’s out there with his teammates doing his thing…he’ll feel better. Especially when the team is winning. Winning cures everything.

Infamouskrs, that was good news, wasn’t it? Marvin can really help the team by learning a consistent 3-ball. Takes the pressure off of JJ and Bibby as it is.

I think Josh Smith will have the right attitude when it’s time to play. He can hate management all he wants now that at least they’re signing the paycheck. It’s time to focus on teammates and coaches, and make sure those relationships are cultivated properly and solidified.

By Sekou K. Smith

August 9, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

I don’t know about a trade Reggie.

Who do you trade? And for what?

To me, the addition of another player or two to round out the rotation and you’re ready for camp.

And that’s terribly sad news about Bernie Mac passing away. RIP.

By Ryder

August 9, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Perhaps the Hawks should keep Bibby and let his contract expire, that way the Hawks would have more money to spend in the next offseason (I know, it’s waaaay to early to talk about it) when his contract comes off their books.

Atlanta shouldn’t consider trading him unless they aren’t winning.

Hopefully they will get Pargo, i’ve seen enough of him to realize he is a threat beyond the arc and can score in bunches.

One question Sekou, do you think that they will continue to keep Smith at the PF spot or move him to the 3 and have Horford at 4 should they sign another big man to the roster? That would only make sense if Marvin is still a liability on defense.

Since he’s suspended the first game of the season the Hawks may have to make that move anyway.

By ray

August 9, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Ha Ha! Sam, you are so full of it, it keeps coming out of your mouth! “ya boy rick Sund” my black arse! But hey, we got Smith back, so it’s all good.

Doc, right on. I’m trying to get past that, though. At least with this Josh, the outside “interference” actually helped. I’m kinda surprised that they matched so quickly though. Not been their “MO” of late…Well, now that we have Josh back on the roster, that kind of lets the camp counselor off the hook as far as having to back up his own words, huh? He wasn’t going to answer anyway…next will be the reply that somebody else already answered the question and he shouldn’t have to, and I need professional help, and blah, blah, why can’t we just be happy that Josh got the money (when he clearly is NOT happy that Josh got the money)…

By Samuel

August 9, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

There’s always room for a player like Rhodes. A 4 or 5 who can step out and shoot from 15ft range. If were talking about signing Elson who would probably cost more, why not sign Rhodes.

I’m just saying. The guy was first team ALL SEC. Can you say Brandon Bass?

By a thinking fan

August 9, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

now the BASG needs to sell out to a real NBA owner…

By ray

August 9, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Don’t know, Travis. My targets would include another veteran big man (preferrably a center), another pg, and a first round draft pick. Probably not all three, and certainly not limited to just the things I mentioned. As for who, I couldn’t tell ya right now. We kinda have to conspiracy theory and speculate on that one. Right now I’m just too happy that Josh is signed. And I’m excited about the season beginning, and seeing who else is going to get signed. But you’re right…with the money Bibby’s making (over $15 mil, by the way), he’s going to be moved, I believe. Still, an intriguing question.

I would watch what the Cleveland Cavaliers are doing for starters. Remember, Bibby is a guy they coveted (as did Lebron) before we snatched him away (thanks to BK). The teams we can look at are teams that are either interested in a large expiring contract, or teams that are looking for a good (but not all-star) caliber pg who can shoot. I don’t see us maintaining him on this pay roll as you said, but what do I know? One of the things fueling this will be the development of Acie Law.

By ray

August 9, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

RIP, Bernie Mac. You were a funny dude.

Ben, why do you think that? Not looking to disagree, but why do you? If this is done before the start of training camp, then one of the players acquired by trading Bibby must be a point guard with some decent NBA experience. The reason I say this is because Law’s rookie year was almost a wash, and we really don’t know if he is ready to run this team and lead it to at least a .500 record. (which is the goal I’d like to see reached). Sure, we have Claxton still. But is he going to remain healthy? Big question….won’t hurt to have another pg. Of course, that is one more reason to sign Pargo as well…

By ray

August 9, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Sam, I’m not familiar with Rhodes (yes, I know please forgive me). How big a dude is he? 6’8 230 or something? Just curious.

Sekou, I like Othello Hunter. I watched some of his play in the summer league. Dude can ball some. What’s up with Solomon Jones these days? Not a peep out of him so far…

By terrell barron

August 9, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Go ahead Sund, do yo thang boy!

By Jsmoove = overrated

August 9, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

listen to sekou openly criticizing the hawks organization over salim stoudamire. “they should have done this.”

wow.

just remember sekou, all this trash you’re talking about the hawks front office,* there plan worked.

they got smith for way less than anyone thought they would and would have easily matched any NBA offers to childress as well. what NBA offers did childress have, sekou? don’t say zero. you know he got an offer.

childress just knew the hawks would match it. that’s why he went and got some crazy offer in another country where he lives in the owner’s house and doesn’t pay taxes. childress “broke the rules.” the hawks were prepared to match any nba offer.

way to stick to your guns, sund. these people think salim stoudemire is an all-star.

By terrell barron

August 9, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Quit hating Doc. Smith was signed. What difference does it make, how it was done? Stop finding stuff to b*** about man. Damn, your’re hard to please! lol!! We lost Chills, and added Evans, Morris, Othello, and possibly Elson. If we get Elson, will you be happy, or will you say we shoulda did this, or we shoulda done that? We even matched Memphis’ offer immediately, and your’re still crying. lol! Jus messin with you Doc. O.K., the Smith saga is over. What are we going to argue about now? lol!! And yall said the ASG was broke. lol!! And oh yeah, RIP Bernie Mac. Sad, Sad, Sad. He was one of my favorite comedians. Remember the scene where the midget guy came home and caught Bernie with his wife? Hilarious.

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

what’s Batisa been up too? any chances he’s still “floatin” out there? a big body that’s decent around the hoop that carries 6 fouls we could use!

ray, it is a great day to be happy for the “only” pertinent Josh. funny how you think that any continued anomosity towards whoever it may be, Hawks related, would be tolerated from Smoove. here’s to hoping everything is positive for him from here on. as we all get older, we tend to tolrate the little a lot more than we used too !

for those of you that had your season ticket plans “on hold”….time to whip out those visa cards. first Favre, now Smith….most summer soap operas are finally coming to their “long-winded” ends.

By ray

August 9, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Ha, not you too terrell….heh heh…

By ray

August 9, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

terrell, we signed Othello? I must’ve missed that….And was that Hunter or Harrington?

By dumbdumb

August 9, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

JSMOOVE=OVERRATED, you have one serious case of the dumbazz. How long have you been worked for Hawks management? sorry but even a few dumbazz comments on this website wont get you a raise or move you to a better cubicle, sorry. By the way Sund sent you a new pair of knee pads for next time. you know what i mean.

By ray

August 9, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

infamouskrs, I guess you’re right. Heh…summer soap operas is right, too. Like you said, whip out the Visa cards. Wondering who else we sign, but that may or may not happen until after veterans camp. Well, perhaps some known quantities will be signed before then, and then one or two guys will make the team after strutting their stuff at vets camp. We’ll see.

Happy days are here at last…

terrell, I know, we can argue about which members of our summer league team will make the roster…hee hee!

By travis

August 9, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

ray i am excited about the resigning of josh, being a season tix holder. are we a better than 37 wins next season?

terrell b don’t give sund king no credit. he didn’t do anything, memphis did!!

By Gypsyjoe

August 9, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

I am way out here in California and I got to say that you are the MAN when it comes to the info of our team. I have been a hawks fan since all the games where on TBS. I hope we can get back to the glory days when we had nique,willis,doc,spud and carr. RIP Bernie Mac

By Jsmoove = overrated

August 9, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

my sources recorded this phone conversation:

sund: hey, grizzlies gm, what’s up big guy, long time, no see. i need you to do me a favor.

grizzlies gm: anything for a brotha, what it is?

sund: these contract negotiations with overrated jsmoove are lagging. this kid (and his beatwriter sekou) think he’s worth 100 billion dollars. so did that other guy childress. he just left the country. anyway, give smith a half-a** contract so we can match it.

grizzlies gm: no problem. just do me a favor, don’t wait the full seven days to match it, i don’t want my cap space tied up.

sund: no problem.

By Dumb Dumb

August 9, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Somebody snatched my handle. Scary thing is, I agree with what they said.

Who’s D-U-M-B! now? I gotta back off ASG a little, since they matched the offer for Smith.

Let’s Go Hawks!

By Less Angry Fan

August 9, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Good Job, asg. .500 is better than .000 and I firmly believed you were gonna strike out completely. 1 Josh here, 1 Josh gone, but hopefully asg will bring in a couple more vets and Woody will use them off the bench. Crap, did I just say, “Woody will use the bench?” Ain’t happened yet. I echo Sekou’s sentiment in terms of the young Stoudamire. The dude could have provided some instant offense, off the bench. So much for that.

Hawks fans…..whatever!

By gb

August 9, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Jsmoove = overrated, so you were under sunds desk when the deal was made.

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

have some of you been drinkin’ more than me, already? “back off the ASG a little”, and this “5=overrated” guy who thinks there is some sorta inner conspiracy thing going on….come on, now!

GET FREAKIN’ REAL, already. 58 mill is INCREDIBLE! he’s 22 and happy. HE WILL BE DUE FOR ANOTHER MONSTER CONTRACT BEFORE EVERYTHING IS “post-peak” for him anyway! haters, THAT’s ALL I CAN SAY ! “HATERS” should post on a different blog.

like JAY said….”WE DON’T BELIEVE YOU, YOU NEED MORE PEOPLE” !

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Sekou, should i be worrying about seeing that the Grizzlies just renounced the rights to 2 players Casey Jacobsen and Andre Brown today? are they freeing up the roster for a sign-and-trade?

inquiring minds wanna know!

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 9, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Between Livingston and Pargo, I’d rather have Pargo. We have already entrusted too much of our bench to unproven young players like Randolph Morris and even Acie Law. We need players like Francisco Elson and Jannero Pargo who have been on successful NBA teams to round out the bench. As much as I still like Livingston’s talent he hasn’t proven a damn thing in this league… plus, he’s not a scorer either, which is one of the things we need off the bench more than a passer.

RIP Bernie Mac… I gotta go watch Head of State again — his character in that movie makes me crack up every time, even though I have seen that movie probably 10-15 times already.

By DarthJoshHater

August 9, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

AAAAAAHHHHHHH, YESSSSSSS, GOOOOOOOOOOD. I can feeeeeeeel your hatred. Use it! Strike your keyboards against your heads. Strike your heads against your monitors and hard drives and this forum of Josh lovers will tumble!

Come to the dark side and join DarthJoshHater!

I can feeeeeel your anger and your hatred! Use it to…..

Oh….OH, Hi there Mr. Sund. Oh, not I wasn’t wearing that metal wastebasket on my head, I swear. I was just uh, looking for that memorandum you uh wanted me to type up.

What’s that sir, you want me to put my knee pads on again? Oh no, sir please. Cant you call that Lewinsky chick in? Oh okay if you promise I really will get promoted next month.

What’s that? No i Havent been posting as “kirknga” i dont even know if he works on this floor (fingers crossed behind back) i’m uh, jsmoove=overrated. Okay, back under the desk. I hate this job.

By ray

August 9, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Good question, infamouskrs, but I don’t think you can trade a player right after signing him unless it’s a sign and trade deal to begin with. I think you have to wait 6 months or something like that. We need MannyT for that answer, he’s the man.

Anyway, Josh can of course be traded somewhere down the line if the team really doesn’t want him and/or he’s really stinking it up. We’ll see what happens, but I’m not trying to hear that right now.

By ray

August 9, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Aw man, that’s just too much…damn, somebody is having too much fun..

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

not tryin’ to bring down you off CLOUD 9 Ray, but we should be worried! the Jets released a kicker that wore #4 about 1.5, 2 weeks ago. things happen for a reason!

this “G MONEY” scrub needs to be DELETED and banned, i take offense to your garbage! no need for that BUeLLSHIeT here!

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

THIS “FIRE” from G MONEY WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ! garbage person….garbage mouth…and a TARGET on people like yourself that SPIT HATE !

ASG STEP UP !

By jhan

August 9, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

doc - you are right about the negotiation process. Anyone of us could have done that. At least the ASG lived up to their workd in that regard. They said from the beginning that they would have the boys find offers & then match them.

The ASG has taken one step towards having me re-up my tickets next year. Now they must fill in the roster adequately. Most importantly, Sund must stand behind his word & force Woody to develop his bench. A winning record would be nice also!! LOL

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

with SATELLITES AND HIGH SPEED INTERNET why the “5 minute post delay” if AS*WHOLES are able to POST SHIeT like that! what a “black” cloud on our day of celebration!

By Block G Money from Postin

August 9, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Dear AJC, please block “G Money” from posting any more comments! It is a privilege, not a right to make comments on this forum. Racist remarks should never be tolerated!

Freedom of speech only goes so far. A wise man once said, “Once your fist comes in contact with my face, your rights diminish, and mine begin.” The remarks made by G Money are blatantly offensive and SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED!!

Please block “G Money” from posting!

By kirknga

August 9, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

It’s great to move on from the Summer of Smith-Childress and ponder upon additions to the team.(we’ll at least some have moved on).

ASG gets no points with me when it comes to Salim. I think it is a very bad move by them to let him go, and it is a failure on part of Woodson not to find use for what he does.

Livingston is an intriguing name, if he is close to where he was when injured, then that could push Acie, and help usher Bibby out like so many are anxious to see for some reason. I like the idea of having a big PG who is a PG first, but can drive and penetrate(if healthy).

As for reserve big men, I’d call Mutombo first. He played well with Yao out and would be a great influence I think. Otherwise, I like Wright and Pollard as stated before. I believe each of these vets bring a certain physicality that the Hawks lack in depth.

As Sekou was talking about frontlines, I began to think about other teams in the East and I believe with Smith, the Hawks frontline ranks 6th-8th best.

I believe Boston, Detroit,Cleveland, Washington, Orlando, have better frontlines than the Hawks. The Sixers, Raptors, and Hawks will battle right behind them.

Wow, what a week. We see the much called for resigning of Josh Smith, and we lost a Skip Caray, and now Bernie Mac. R.I.P. guys.

By Sautee

August 9, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

kirknga

(we’ll at least some have moved on).

Now what does this mean?

By Macaroni Tony

August 9, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Do we still have the money that we didn’t spend on JC to sign another veteran player?

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 9, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Dude, if you want comments removed just submit a comment removal request… responding only encourages them.

By Macaroni Tony

August 9, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

I do like the line up of chooses that we have this up coming season.

Bibby/Law/Claxton Johnson/Evans/M.West JS/MW/O.Hunter Al/SJ/? RM/ZP/?

How do that sound?

By Astro Joe

August 9, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Sekou, has the leadership issue been resolved for the Hawks? Has the answer come from Horford and or Bibby?

Zaza, Evans and Law are the only players on the bench who appear to be worthy of 20 minutes/game of playing time. Maybe that’s enough, but I doubt it.

By doc

August 9, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

terrell no hate just calling it like it is. shoot man even we agreed on the fact smith needed to be signed and even kirk said 11 to 12 mil. just saying it isnt like sund had to think too hard on that one and as long as folks make it into something else then i will continue to stall the party. shoot, it was like could they fluff an 18 inch straight putt as it was about that hard?

funny the j=overrated dialogue was one i considered that might have happened the offer was so genteel for the hawks. glad he is on our side and will wait a while to see how it all shakes out. funny we will carry about 2/3 of the salary we could have used to solidify one more important piece. saving money while not looking like it.

it is going to be a whole lot more fun i hope to watch how these guys come together in vet camp. now who do we really have?

if that is the gmoney that used to turn up here i think he had a brain amputation. terrell dude that is real hate, i aint close and you know it, just call it tough love. heh heh

yeah kirk sad how salim was put in the dog house, like a black plague. it seemed to be very personal.

By randy

August 9, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Just heard we signed Smith! I really didn’t think it would happen, but it did! Future looks bright if they can resign Joe Johnson in the near future.

By DARION MARTIN

August 9, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

not stupid after all the,the GM for the hawks did keep his word. At least for one of the j-boys now lets see if he can add one more shooter to get us back to the playoffs GO HAWKS

By infamousrks

August 9, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

sorrym Najeh…can’t let this 1 just walk. response he wanted….1 he definently got ! absolutely horrible, that any person would even THINK about posting something like that…………

SHOULDN’T BE ALLOWED ON HERE…..(hence) the 5 minute delay ! what’s that SHeT for then?

By ray

August 9, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Whoa, infamous, it’ll be okay. That can’t be the same G Money we once knew…let it roll off your back anyhow. Time to be happy.

A healthy Shaun Livingston is a very talented and risky gamble. You can’t beat his court vision or his size. But can he stay healthy? And should we roll the dice on another oft-injured pg? The other question would be this: how expensive of a gamble is Livingston? As a friend pointed out, for the Clippers to keep him at a qualifying offer…it would cost $5.8 million. That’s more than I’d want to pay for him on a yearly basis (due to health concerns), let alone for one year.

I’d take Pargo, though. He can play some point, but can also play some sg.

Meanwhile, I wonder just what Chicago is going to do with Ben Gordon? From what I can see, he just doesn’t fit his niche handily enough for a lot of teams. Heck of a scorer/shooter/sniper…but only about 6’2-6’3 with few pg skills and bad defense. Actually, it’s not that so much as for a player with these kinds of drawbacks (and no more upside than he shows now), he’s looking to get paid too much. And it’s the same reason he’s been coming off of the bench in Chicago, despite being their leading scorer all this time. I mean, what can you say? A sixth man looking for starter’s money. REAL starter’s money. But not good enough to be a starter on his own squad (where the backcourt has been an issue)…

By TROTTINGHOMETUDD

August 9, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

SEKOU,

PLEASE ASK MARK BRADLEY TO STOP WRITING ABOUT THE HAWKS.

I THINK MOST KNOW WHY

By brent a.

August 9, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

The Smith/Horford v. Gasol/Odom comparison is a good one to make, especially in light of the way Smith and Horford dominated the Celtics interior in games 3,4 and 6 of the play-offs, while the Lakers bigs struggled against the Celtics physical interior.

I discussed with fellow Lakers fans at the time, how I thought that the Smith/Horford combo would have served the Lakers better in the Finals than Gasol/Odom did.

Truth be told, though, it was after watching in person what the Hawks athletic front court was able to to do the Celtics aging interior, that I felt like the Lakers had a really good chance to beat Boston, especially considering how young and athletic Gasol and Odom are.

However, neither of those two match the strength and athleticism of of Horfod/Smith. What Gasol/Odom provide is skill, and in the case of Gasol, a high basketball IQ. But, the Celtics phyiscal play was able to throw the Lakers bigs off, while the Hawks’ bigs were too much for the Celtics to handle in the games in Atlanta.

By mred

August 9, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

sekou thomas gardner had an outstanding summer camp and he made the bull opening roster last year do you think he would make agood fit especially since he would be working on a rookie salary

By Old School

August 9, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

This will go down as one of the all time worst contracts for the Hawks. Josh Smith will never amount to anything in the NBA. His attitude amd lack of game is exposed. Just ask Arthur Blank what happens when you sign an athlete with attitude issues. Nothing but problems!!

By doc

August 9, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

thought you guys might want to see what is coming:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/schedule?team=atl

By cp

August 9, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

R.I.P. Bernie Mac

I really like Othello Hunter’s game. A big who can step out and hit a jumper. Finishes well and is a fairly athletic player. He has a better offensive game than Solo but Solo is a better shot blocker. I read somewhere that other teams might offer Luke Jackson a contract so I dont know if he will be with this team or not. If healthy I would like to have Livingston here. You could play him and Law at the same time because of his height and let Law play a little off guard. I also like Pargo but I think the Spurs might end up signing him. Elson has a verbal agreement with the Bucks but I think he would have been the perfect fit here. Whats up with James White. Very atheltic, nice defense, and finishes at the rim very well. I never thought about Dorell Wright but he could be a nice addition also. How is his knee? Im curious to find out who will be filling out our bench.

By Mike is back

August 9, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

Well I have been on the sidelines reading blogs daily waiting to see how the RFA debacle would play out, “Finally some relieffffffff.” While I share everyone’s disappoint with the loss of Chill, “It’s Greatttt to have JS back.” Going forward I will take Doc approach and turn the page on the ASG. If we could get one more mid level Big and shooter, the future looks bright. I still think Magliore would be a good fit for the Hawks.

Sad to hear that Salim no longer wants to play for Hawks, but who could blame him with Woody being retained? I think the kid Richardson could really help with the scoring if given a chance. My only problem with Pargo is his size. Woody doesn’t seem to like short guards. He’s so defensive minded, that he would probably give Pargo the same treatment he gave Salim…they both have similar style…but I think when ever Salim gets his shot, he’ll make all of his detractors eat crow.

Sekou thanks for the love and passion you bring to this blog. During one of most exasperating time to be a Hawks fan, and there have been many…you carried the gavel for the blog crew kept us informed and kept the Hawks team relevant to the average Hawks fan. As much as I love the Hawks and the Falcon…I just can’t take the negativism of the Flacon blogs. This is the place I come to engage and be entertained. I think it’s a credit to you and all the old school bloggers that we can come here and express our expert opinions,”LOL” and still maintain a level of civility. No other time was that more evident then the recent ASG RFA debacle. While all is not great, at least know we still have a potential playoff team to root for.

Nice piece on Marvin, I hope we can hear the same thing about Solomon. If Solomon chose not to participate in summer league, surly he must be doing something to enhance his NBA future.

GLAD TO HAVE YOU BACK SMOOVEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL GO SEKOU…GO GUYS…AND GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Sherewshevsky

August 9, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

I sure hope Josh Smith has learned how to dribble without turning the ball over, and I hope he’s developed a turn-around jump shot in the low post like Dominique did. A dependable low-post turn-around would make him unstoppable.

Marvin Williams working on a 3 pt shot. Why do we need that? OK, I’ll let that one go, I guess, so long as Josh doesn’t shoot any.

Pargo at 6’1” is a horrible shooter, making 39% for his 6-year career. Only twice has he been over 40%. His 3 pt shooting is worse. He scores because he’s a gunner. That’s all we need. Give the other team a better chance of fast-breaking on us. Who needs that? Would he be better than Salim?

Livingston. Sure he can sit on the end of our bench, too.

Elson is 7 feet but is thin at 235 lb. He gets pushed around a lot. His last 2 years were not very good and he’s about 31 yers old. But, I’d take him if no one else is available. We desperately need a 7 footer. Frankly, I’d take Mutombo. he can still block a shot and get a couple rebounds.

I, too, am thinking Bibby will eventually be gone, especially if the Hawks give AC playing time and he performs well. But I’m also thinking he’ll have a good training camp, will feel more comfortable, his injuries will have healed, and he will be very good.

By Dennis

August 9, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

I agree with you, Salim could have been a weapon, kind of like a downtown Freddie Brown was for Seattle in the late 70’s, early 80’s. Set him up at the 3 point line, have Bibby kick it down low to Joe Johnson, and when the double comes, JJ kicks back to Bibby, and he passes to Salim, who nails a 3. The guy can flat out shoot. Freddie Brown really did not play any D, but that’s not what they needed, nor Vinny Johnson. Just need someone to light up a quick 10 points. Salim, we’ll miss you. Go to Phoenix or better yet, the Knicks. D’antoni’s style is what is good for you.

By **NATIVE SON**

August 9, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

Two problems with Salim….He can’t shoot, nor defend!!! Git em’ outta heh’

By richie boy

August 9, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

Bibby will play fairly well. He has to. Last year in a nice contract. If he plays like crap, nobody will give him that last, nice contract that guys his age and ability always seek. ‘Cause after that…it’s MLE and things like that…

Marvin adding a three point shot to his arsenal is never a bad thing. Unless of course you believe that we only need two guys who can do that. Versatility is definitely the key, especially in a frontcourt that’s not all that large.

By hawkfan

August 9, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

Well, it looks like we signed othello hunter from the summer league, he seems excited to come to the hawks, lets hope he does some good

By terrell barron

August 9, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Doc, Ray, yall got to admit, things are looking better than they were yesterday. lol!! Now if we can land Elson, will you guys bow down to Sund? lol!! And Ray, I’m not sure about Othello Hunter, but he was the best player in the summer league, IN MY OPINION, besides Acie. They better give him a chance.

By TheHawksFan

August 9, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Ok lets get this Party STARTED!!!

Bibby/Law/Claxton Johnson/Evans/Richardson Williams/West/Gardner Smith/Solo/ Hunter Horford/Pachulia/Morris

Thats a TEAM!! Cost effective. Good balance across the board. Offense Defense . Run n Gun! I think this is about good as we were gonna get all things considered. Not bad Mr. Sund not Bad at ALL. Damn I cant wait till the season starts. GOOOOOO HAWKS!!!!

By Professor

August 9, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

I watched some old high school footage of Josh Smith. The guy actually doesn’t have that bad of a shot. Maybe he should be out there right next to Marvin shooting those 3’s in the off season. Its easy to tell him not to shoot it, but he is only 22. At least he is trying to get better. And he has pretty good form. If he could get a jumper he could be DEADLY!!!!! It will be fun to see where he is with his game in 5 years when its time to talk contract again(he will be only 27, wow!). I hope he can grow up and I agree I would put him at the 3 spot and move Horford to the 4. Let Morris play the 5 and develop him. Morris can act as this years first round pick. Lets see what he’s got. By the way I youtubed some highlights of Mo and he looks like a BEAST! Maybe on a team like the Hawks he will shine. He will probably see alot of minutes with Chills gone. What do you guys think?

By Mychelfromatl

August 9, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

Okay…time to get this season started…I’m honestly Excited!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 10, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

Josh has a really, really slow release and not so great shot selection. His shooting form itself is not that bad. If he spent some time on it he would probably be able to shoot well enough to keep defenses honest. But I’d rather see him spend more time developing post moves and working on his passing.

By Joshua

August 10, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

Hunter signed a contract and will be a back up post in training camp , I’d like to see Luke Jackson given a chance as well and what about Devin Brown ? anyone hear right now .

By fudd21

August 10, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

Najeh Amen to that!

By Jsmoove = overrated

August 10, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this

i really like how when i share the other side of the story (sund’s), the message board gangs up on me and says i’m sund’s slave - as if there was a side to take. that’s what is so pathetic about sekou’s writing. he has clearly taken a side with the players and against the management. that is so unprofessional.

at the same time, sekou has a responsibility to his readers. the fact that, based on this blog, most of the readers are jumping on the “i hate rick sund” bandwagon, means that his unprofessional, bias views are rubbing off on the readers.

again, sad.

just remember bloggers, there are two sides of the story and you’re only getting one side, thanks to your “beatwriter.”

By HB Ando

August 10, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this

Waz up?

Well, there hasn’t been any reason to stop in, given the excruciating wait for some type of movement on the Smith situation. Thanks to Big Ray, for hitting me on my mobile, and giving me the 411 on Smith.

Per our discussion, I told Ray that I simply couldn’t imagine the ASG NOT matching, no matter how broke they are, or what their ultimate intentions will be. As I’ve said before, they’re so far behind, from an asset management/accumulation standpoint, that they genuinely would have fried the franchise if they had failed to match.

And I certainly didn’t see anything on Memphis’ roster that would create a compelling sign-and-trade option.

Said for several years that, ultimately, either Marvin or Josh would have to move on. Horford’s optimal position, as a 4, locked that opinion in.

Now that Smith is signed, and Horford will be when his time comes, Marvin is our most valuable asset to trade for a complementary big, who can step out and knock down the outside shot, while still holding his position on the low block, defensively.

Bibby’s contract still puts the Hawks above a number I think they’re committed to, payroll-wise. So I seriously doubt he’ll make it to the trade deadline.

While I believe in the combo of Horford and Smith, I think SS’ example, highlighting the LA matchup, is just as valuable for what it didn’t mention, as for what it did: Bynum was out.

What would that front line matchup have looked like if Bynum had been healthy? Promise you Horford wouldn’t have snagged 20 boards.

There’s an immense volume of discussion about which journeymen to add to this roster. But what can’t be lost in those discussions is that every guy that’s being considered is marginable enough to still be looking for a job. And the flat truth is that going to the Hawks, for an NBA roster spot, is a tacit admission that a player is on the very absolute fringe of not playing in the NBA next year, at least at this time of the summer.

Not that I don’t have some appreciation for a few of the names being bandied about. But the idea that any combination of names, out of the totality of consideration, will lead the Hawks into the land of Eastern Conference legitimacy, is some variable combination of beaten down, low expectations, and wishful thinking.

Signing Smith saved almost every Hawks fan from having to seriously evaluate their continued interest in the franchise. But the truth is that this team isn’t a fraction better than last seasons’. And, arguably, it’s worse. Yet several other Eastern Conference teams have made serious changes to their rosters, primarily to hightened expectations.

As it stands, this DOES NOT project to be a playoff team.

And the questions that everyone had, when Smith’s future with the team were seriously unclear, haven’t been completely answered by his retention.

There’s still the equally important issue of just how much the ASG is willing to commit to the team payroll, and how that number impacts the near-term future of Mike Bibby, whose $14.5 million, expiring contract, still clearly seems destined to be moved. How soon, and for what, are the real questions.

And, unlike Josh, who was clearly be market-worthy of the salary range he finally signed for, Marvin could well challenge the logic and resolve of the ASG, if and when a term sheet, next summer, far exceeds his potential value here, given the logjam, at forward, that the teams’ commitment to Smith and Horford confirm.

Hope for this season comes in the form of acknowledging that inevitability now, rather than next summer, when the franchise’s track record for handling their RFA’s was clearly established this summer. If Marvin’s ultimately going to go, and we want to move forward this year, go get Bargnani and watch the first balanced Hawks’ roster in nearly a decade……..

By Jsmoove = overrated

August 10, 2008 1:52 AM | Link to this

thanks ando, for once again dilluting the message board with long-winded, non-inightful jibberish.

By BA

August 10, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this

News flash, Ando: this already IS a playoff team.

You aren’t the first I’ve seen with the “trade Bibby by the deadline” theory. To me, it doesn’t wash. Memphis is the only team with the kind of cap space to just take on Bibby’s salary (doesn’t Memphis already have three or four point guards?). So anybody else would have to send four crappy players (with expiring deals) that this incompetent ownership group would STILL have to pay!

So why trade Bibby?

As far as Marvin and the “logjam” at forward, as long as Big Al is starting at center (which he did with much success in his ROOKIE year) there really isn’t a logjam. If anything, we could use another big. How do you know they won’t resign Marvin with the Bibby money next year?

I’d say if you’re going to retain Williams (and I hope they do), go ahead and sign him now, before he has a career year in 08/09 and the price goes up.

They would have saved a lot of money (and bad publicity) if they had dealt with Smith/Childress at the start of last season.

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this

Amen Ando. How do you let two draft picks(Salim and Chills) get away FOR NOTHING????????

IDK about Marvin yet though ando. I’ll reserve judgement until the end of the season.

Marvin doesn’t have to leave. Just put him on the bench and let Morris start. That way we balance the starting lineup and Bolster the bench at the same time. Acie,Evans,and Willams off the bench is prety darn nasty for any team in the leauge.

BTW, since Sekou talked to salim and it’s official that he won’t be back now this is the new handle….I was going to use “prolix” but after checking the web it’s already taken. Gotta be original lol.

5=Overrated…………..STFU

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 2:04 AM | Link to this

B.A……….yup, Watch. Bibby is gonna show us somethin’ serious this season.

By BA

August 10, 2008 2:14 AM | Link to this

I hope so, Sal, er, Aerios. But even if he doesn’t, and Acie asserts himself as an NBA starter, Bibby still has a lot of value, unless anybody is ready to put it all the chips on Speedy Claxton’s comeback.

I think Bibby will be infinetely better, and I also expect Marvin and of course Horford to be better. And if we can even get HALF a playoff ZaZa…

I think, barring injury, 50 wins is a reasonable goal for this year. Anybody who says it isn’t possible, I say go watch your playoff recordings!

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 2:31 AM | Link to this

lol, Spain vs. Greece on USA(the channel) right now…..there about to tip off!!!

By Jsmoove = overrated

August 10, 2008 3:32 AM | Link to this

i bet you five bucks jsmoove makes the all-star team 0 out of the 5 years of his contract.

By Jsmoove = overrated

August 10, 2008 3:43 AM | Link to this

double or nothing maurice evans wins sixth man of the year.

By richie boy

August 10, 2008 6:59 AM | Link to this

JSMOOVE=OVERRATED,

I would tell you to quite being and idiot and stop smoking Sund’s pole, but you’re probably addicted by now. Did he bring you from Seattle? You must be good at what you do. You’ll bet five bucks? Is that all Sund is paying you for your “service”? Or are you getting another five bucks to take shots at a beat writer that you’re clearly jealous of?

BA,

Bibby will have to play good in the final year of his contract. He won’t get a nice contract otherwise. And he probably won’t be getting that contract here. Either way, don’t look for him to be quite as good as he was in his glory days in Sactown. That was Rick Adelman’s offense. This is Mike Woodson’s offense. They just are not the same by a long shot.

By richbrave

August 10, 2008 7:45 AM | Link to this

BA:

eCHO richie boy’S SENTIMENTS RE: bibby. tHE DUDE IS JUST NOT EFFECTIVE IN THE wOODEN-ONE’S OFFENSIVE SETS. hE’S TOO SMALL AND TOO OLD FOR A SET OFFENSE. nEEDS A FREE-FLOWING SLASH AND BURN TYPE OF MOVEMENT TO FREE UP PASSING AND TO GET OPEN SHOTS. hE LOOKED GOOD AGAINST THE celtics WHENEVER THE hawks COULD EXECUTE FAST-BREAKS. oTHERWISE HE WAS VERY EFFECTIVELY BOTTLED UP BY THE DEFENSE OF rondo AND/OR pierce.

That said, IF WOODSON would build some effective offensive sets around BIBBY-maybe. He has had some time to do so. But my ultimate GUESS is WOODSON’s in - BIBBY’s out.

By clint

August 10, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

I think we ought to take a chance on Shaun Livingston just because you don’t know what is going to happen with Bibbby. It would give us another option at the point.

I also think we should sign up marvin now instead of waiting until next year when his price will do nothing but go up. I think this offseason has shown us what happens, not just with our players, but just look at the inflated contract of Luol deng. i think they should wait until training camp to start negotiations that way he is with the team and more likely to resign and we can spend some fringe money now on some other guys. Im hoping for livingston, pargo, elson, etc instead of going for guys off the summer roster who might not even be nba players. Nothing like depth.

By Samuel

August 10, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Ando,

What’s your facination with over-rated Euro punks. First it was Darko, now it’s Bargnani. This team is making it’s mark on toughness and heart. We definately dont need any soft a$$ Euros to cramp our style.

And yes we are a playoff team. While other teams have added pieces. I don’t see where they have done anything that makes them any better than a lineup of: Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Josh and Al. That line up is as talented as any (outside of Boston) in the East.

I also don’t believe that Bibby is going nowhere. I can see us somehow moving Claxton and/or Marvin but not Bibby.

I Believe in this franchise. I Believe in Rick Sund. I Believe that last year’s playoffs have caused us to turn the corner and now we’re ready to go to the next level.

By Ken Strickland

August 10, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

SAMUEL-I have to agree with you 100% on your assessment of the state of the Hawks. I responded to a post made by ANDO a while back about putting so much stock on adding talent. I mentioned the yr we added MMalone and RTheus and instantly became the team to beat, and that’s what happened, we got beaten. Adding talent might make you a better team on paper, but doesn’t automatically translate into the type of improvement that makes a better team on the court.

Look at all of that individual talent the Knicks had, then look at the results. Last yr Charlotte added NMohummad and JRichardson and everyone thought they were much improved. Last yr, at the end of the trade deadline, we’d turned over half our roster. We had 2 new starters, Bibby & Hoirford(Bibby wasn’t acquired until the trade deadline), and we were the one’s that made the playoffs. This yr, we’ll have the same starting 5, plus we’ll start training camp and season with Bibby board. He’ll provide the leadership from the beginning that he provided the 2nd half of last yr. A healthy Bibby, knowing the OFF/DEF and his teammates, should provide increased production and make it a lot easier for his teammates, especially JJ.

An improved Josh, Marvin, Horford and Acie will definitely have a positive impact. Add Speedy, Morris and Evans to the mix, and we should definitely see marked improvement. Also, last yr we were hoping we’d have a chance to back into the playoffs. This yr, we know we can make the playoffs, and their is no way anyone can downplay the confidence and the experience that’s generated by knowing you’ve already accomplished it.

The only things that can keep this team from making the playoffs are key injuries and Woodson.

By doc

August 10, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

professor, i agree on smith shot however flash disagrees, especially from the free throw line. he has a good set up to the shot and he is strong. presently he probably only lacks the confidence and touch required. at least he is not afraid to shoot it.

funny most folks ignore a 33% at the three point line is the same as 50% when it comes to points accumulated. there is also this sense that teams dont win championships shooting it which is not quite accurate either. timely shooting of the three is important, while the teams to win the last few rings have done it and done it well including the spurs in 07 and the celts in 08.

it is a huge part of most good teams’ arsenals and one we better find quickly or no one will be able to get off a shot in the fourth quarter again. it will just be like the last few years as we waste possessions when teams collapse essentially into a zone and dare us to beat them. time to get an offense woody, maybe you will have confidence in evans or destroy him like his predecesors. someone had to be brave enough to do it and smith threw up some daggers to other teams lsat year with his along with bibby and lue. need a few more added to the mix.

By Phil This (formerly ScoobySnacks)

August 10, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

I don’t know man I’m starting to get excited about the names I am hearing around here. Smith back in the fold. Chills production, although pretty good, was not and is not irreplaceable. Another scorer plus a big like Franky E. I think I’m starting to feel something here. Looks like a great season is just around the corner.

By Peter

August 10, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Francisco is going to the Bucks

By Samuel

August 10, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Doc,

Smith will totally come into his own as a player when he understands that 3pt line IS NOT HIS FRIEND. Sure he may hit an occassional 3 but he will make his living and legacy on the blocks and in the open court.

33% from the line will kill you as a team. It may equal 50% of 2 pointers but it’s the timing that kills you. A bad 3 will kill the confidence of players working hard to get good shots. Hopefully, the playoff success has convinced Josh where he is capable of going when he plays within himself. He can be a Hall of Famer, period.

Ken, please understand that Mike Woodson was dealt a weak hand but has weathered the storm and is also comming into his own as a head coach. It takes time. Again, our playoff run has caused him to eveluate himself and realize where this team can go.

Also, look for big things this year from Solomon Jones. Woody will give him his chance.

By jhan

August 10, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Glad to hear Marvin is running faster & adding muscle. The big question is can he dribble while he’s running faster? Last year he could barely walk down the floor & dribble at the same time.

If Marvin becomes stronger & develops his inside offense/defense then what will we do? We will have Josh, Al & Marvin who will all be best suited playing PF. Hopefully Marvin will unleash an adequate outside game to go along with his newly developed quickness. We really need Josh or Marvin to become a legit SF.

Ando - I like the idea of acquiring a big that can shoot from outside. Not sure if Bargnani is the guy. I read somewhere that Okur is either unhappy or not sure if he’ll be back in Utah after next season. That would be the perfect fit for this team. Maybe we can use Bibby’s money next year to resign Joe & Marvin then add an Okur.

By BBgenie

August 10, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Seko What’s up? I’m the person who told you Hawks in 7! At practice, remember. If we could get our hands on Elson, it would be a rap! This is the same guy who came off the bench for the Spurs when they made the last championship run. He’s tough, salary flexable, no problems off the court, and he would match up well with any BIG (5) in the NBA. Start pushing the idea! We still need a scorer off the bench. BEN GORDON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By ray

August 10, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Francisco Elson has told HoopsHype that he is definitely signing with Milwaukee. So, we better be picking a new target, or three.

Glad to see that Othello Hunter signed a contract to at least attend training camp and see if he can make the team. I like this guy’s game. Like all players, he needs to work on a host of things, but he was definitely a steady force in the summer league. He can run the floor and is a very enthusiastic, energetic player. I hope he shows even more and makes the team. I see him as more of a slightly undersized 4, but I think he’ll help if given the chance.

What’s going on with Solomon Jones? I wonder how much he’s been working on his game?

By ray

August 10, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Elson is NOT coming here….

Sam, I have no doubts about Josh Smith.

Woody said some good things after his contract was renewed. I felt encouraged by this, but one fact remains: he has to follow through on these things and not forget them after his comfort zone begins to evaporate. Realizing what’s wrong after the season isn’t going to cut it, especially not now. I’m not trying to bash the guy, believe it or not, but hindsight does little for us at this point. Hopefully not being job scared will really make a difference. Believe me, I look forward to being as doubt-free about him as you are. But I’m not there yet.

Ando, though it’s not a concept that’s completely accepted, I agree with teaming a shooting big along with Smith and Horford. However, I figure this isn’t how Sund’s mind works. I could be wrong, but based largely on the kind of big men that he’s drafted in the past and how he did things in Seattle, I’d say we’re not headed in that direction. And I’m guessing that Woody’s not so hip to it either. Who knows what Gearon and crew think (although they are likely as not to have heavy input in this area). I have a feeling that your idea will not come to fruition as long as Sund and Woody are around, but what do I know…..

On the flip side, I don’t have that Euro-player phobia that Sam has. Utah seems to be using it rather effectively. In fact, in picking up Koufas, they’re going to continue that trend…and get better still (Koufas is bigger and probably has more upside than Okur did). Euros ain’t that bad in the NBA books…how many championships has San Antonio won with Tim Duncan and his Euro teammates: Ginobilli and Parker? But I digress….

By hawks fan

August 10, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

SEKOU nice article. is it possible that we get Andre Igudola?

By ray

August 10, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

I don’t ever see Marvin as a 4. He’s always been a 3 in the NBA to me. Perhaps at one time he could’ve been viewed as a 4 in the Al Harrington/Antawn Jamison mold, but the rebounding, post moves, and post defense just aren’t there. That could change, who knows…but he’s just not a 4.

Sam, it’s not a fascination with Euros. It’s about putting together a design that creates constant mismatches. It may or may not win a championship, but it beats running a frontline that features two 3s and a 4…especially when one of the 3s isn’t committed to either rebounding or defense.

Besides, I think Ando has stated the strengths/weaknesses concepts in such a design. It’s not one we have to use, but it’s an idea. Utah has used it pretty well in the tough western conference, and they’re doing it with a young pg, to boot. Again, I’m not saying it’s the end-all, be-all.

But don’t worry. YA BOY SUND probably isn’t too hip to this type of setup, so you won’t likely see it in the ATL. Although, don’t get mad if YA BOY SUND goes and does what he has in the past: try and acquire some big stiff center that can’t play (Petro, Saene, Swift,etc). Don’t believe me? Guess what else YA BOY SUND says? He said Kevin Love was far and away the most talented player in the draft. Starting to get the picture? Yep, sounds like “ya boy”, but damn sure don’t sound like you. What an odd couple y’all make. LOL!

Hey, I don’t hate the guy (he hasn’t been here long enough to be a total screw-up), but I don’t love him either. Neither label fits….. yet.

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Now that all of this RFA drama is behiend us, we all just need to relax and let loose……

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Ray, Sund said what???? Fire his arse now!!!!!!!!

BTW did ya’ll se that USA vs. China BEATDOWN?? Even though Marshmello had ANOTHER bad game. Redd needs to come off the bench a little earlier IMO.

By Ken Strickland

August 10, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

JHAN-if we do use the money from Bibby’s expiring contract to sign Okur, what do we do with either Smith or Horford. Despite comments and opinions to the contrary, JSmith isn’t a natural SF or a better fit at the position. With him there, and without Bibby, JJ would be our only outside shooter and would again be double and triple teamed. That wouldn’t make us better.

Why are so many of you so willing to dismiss Marvin and his talents, while focusing almost exclusively on his perceived liabilities. I did a little research, and the results were interesting. JSmith is a better all around player, no doubt, but Marvin isn’t that far behind offensively.

Josh averaged 17.2PPG to Marvin’s 14.8PPG. They played about the same number of mins, so this is how Josh averaged 2.4PPG more. Josh had 215 more 2PT attempts and shot 60 more FT’s. When you compute the total point difference, then divide the results by the 80gms Marvin played, then multiply the results by his corresponding shooting percentages, the resulting averages are almost identical. Now that doesn’t include the 24 additional 3PT shots Smith made.

The bottom line is, most of Marvin’s OFF stats compare favorably with Smooves, especially when you consider he’s the 4th option with virtually no plays run or designed for him. Another factor is this. Marvin’s gm is from about 18ft in, while Smoove has no midrange OFF. He either scores from 3pt range or inside, seldom in between. Smith needs to develop a midrange OFF, which would make him almost unstoppable. Marvin could extend his shooting range, as long as it doesn’t affect his shooting touch.

Some of you are so quick to suggest replacing Marvin with someone that has more shooting range. Yet, none of the suggested replacements have demonstrated an ability to put up numbers comparable to his. Bottom line, our starting lineup is intact and our bench will be deeper.

SAMUEL-I can’t dispute anything you’ve said about Woodson because I believe almost anything is possible. So, I certainly hope you’e right my friend.

By jhan

August 10, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Ken - I would have a starting five of Law, Johnson, Smith, Horford & Okur. Outside shooting will come from Johnson & Okur. Law will need to work on being consistent from 15’ & out.

I’m not sure what to do with Marvin long term. He might be headed for Ben Gordon status. Not good enough to start, but want’s starters money.

If we sign a legitimate center where does Marvin fit in? Do you put Smith or Horford on the bench? Do you sign a legit center & have him come off the bench?

This is the problem with how our last GM built the club. We had several good players that all play the same position. Who do you keep & who leaves? Impossible to keep, play & pay - Childress, Smith & Marvin at the same time. All good players but not enough money to go around.

Ideally we should have a $10-12 Million player at three different positions. Not three small forwards. Billy drafted good players just not a good team.

By doc

August 10, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

samuel not arguing your point but ansewring some of the detractors or had you seen them? i dont want josh to live out their but have it in his aresenal. he was closer to it than our other 22 yr old who felt out of touch with reality when he had to shoot anything other than a 12 to 14 ft post up without anyone on him. the kid josh is tough in body, mind and spirit.

samuel, bottom line, i guess i see him ultimately in the mold of a guy WE BOTH LIKE ….. SHEED as sheed can step back and thread it, no? in terms of that comparison smith is with a better screwed on head thus far in his career. i dont know it because it has never been mentioned or embellished but suspect his dad has been a very awesome role model or mentor for him along the lines tiger’s dad played for him.

i am so looking forward to seeing how the talent josh has is expressed gong forward. it should be fun and rocky at times. talent and genius sometimes brings that out in folks.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 10, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Another reason 33% from 3 doesn’t equal 50% from 2: although it may equal the same number of points, the chances for an offensive rebound/putback are a lot less on a 3 than a 2 because of the potential for long rebounds. For the same reason, it’s a lot more likely that a missed 3 starts a fast break for the other team. If you have a choice, 2’s are almost always better than 3’s.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 10, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

“i really like how when i share the other side of the story (sund’s), the message board gangs up on me and says i’m sund’s slave - as if there was a side to take.”

Osama bin Laden has his “side of the story” for September 11th too… doesn’t mean it’s relevant or that anyone cares to hear it. What’s going on with the Hawks is pretty obvious. I’m pretty sure this applies for others on this blog as well, but as far as I’m concerned Sekou’s just voicing what I already have been thinking for quite a while.

Unfortunately, the sticky white liquid covering your face as you kneel in front of Hawks management seems to be clouding your vision. A towel might help you perceive the obvious better.

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

they’re ONLY 22 years old, shesh…….you guys worry too much.

By jhan

August 10, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Najeh - LOL!

By doc

August 10, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

najeh let me carry it further to counter what you said that is true for the bad teams that shoot the three first instead of using it smart. you spread the defense with the three ball opening up lanes, make that huge lanes. it is also more precipitated on good and quick ball movement and appropriate selection of the shot. doesnt it kind of wear down a defense if ball movement is involved and where it is not the first shot taken? just remember how out of gas the lakers were as they had to work just as hard on defense as they did on offense.

if there is good spacing with this ball movement folks should be in position to bound and defend after all the spacing predicates the ball movement. champs do it well pretenders dont. i dont think one can argue that the last few teams to win the championship though not known for it have used the three to put themselves over the top.

samuel, to reiterate how much i agree josh needs to be a force inside i ask you to remember how i have steadfastly refused to call him … just cant do it even now and have said when he becomes j smash then he will be an all star. even with that if he can take a big man outside with him because they have to defend him it is just one more chink in the others guys armor and one more weapon in our arsenal.

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Poop!! LMFAO!!!…..Nasteh…..but true.

By terrell barron

August 10, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Marvin Willioams a 4. No way. If anything, he could be a BIG 2 guard, as Larry Drew pointed out. But I cant see him playing the PF position. Maybe in a backup role, but that’s about it.

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

J-Smoove speaks to Dallas Basketball.com……nice interview….smoove felt insuted by management.

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Another Smoove interview.

By kwooden1

August 10, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

I’m entirely to late to the party, but JS is FINALLY SIGNED!!!!

It appears the HAWKS have ended up following the plan that I thought they would, but they just created a lot of bad press in the process. I think they did themselves a disservice in not being open about deciding to keep JS over Chills. From a budget aspect it was something that they had to do. Since they didn’t trade Chills earlier they where stuck in the situation their were this summer. (also BK leaving, and Sund couldn’t do anything about last year)

They need to figure out what their going to do with Marvin Williams very early this season. I think if he doesn’t show great improvement right away, I suggest trading him for another veteran scorer to come off the bench or a center. If he shows great improvement, Atlanta is going to have to come to the realization that they are going to have to be a high payroll team. (they’re going to pay Horford very soon!) If they have four guys in the 10-15M a year range, they will be a high payroll team, but hopefully they will a fixture in the playoffs.

Its going to be very interesting to see the improvement of JS and Marvin this coming season. We should all stop excusing them for being too young or inexperienced. Those guys are going to have to play every night, if their going to make the playoffs again. JJ is going to play, and Bibby is going to be healthier, but an improved JS is what the team really needs. If Marvin starts making 3’s and finish at the rim then we might have something special. We’ll have to wait and see!

I’m pretty sure that the HAWKS next signings are going to be NBA minimums or practice squads guys. The guys we got are it!

GO HAWKS!

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Kobe Interview

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Bibby not returning?

While no one in the 76ers’ organization would confirm it, it appears that assistant coach Henry Bibby will not return to the staff.

Bibby joined head coach Maurice Cheeks’ staff in January 2006, and in recent weeks helped oversee workouts for Elton Brand at Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine.

He was thought to be at the conclusion of his contract. Sixers president/GM Eddie Stefanski declined to comment, as did Bibby, reached via cell phone by the Daily News.

Bibby, who has coached in the Continental Basketball Association and briefly in the WNBA, was 131-111 in nine seasons at Southern California. He played nine NBA seasons with four teams, including 1976-80 with the Sixers as a teammate of Cheeks.

He was also the point guard on three NCAA national championship teams with UCLA, which went 87-3 during his career. *

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

Maaan, If I was Kobe for just one day……a single version of Kobe of course heh.

By ray

August 10, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

kwooden1, it’s never too late to join the party celebrating Josh Smith’s signing!

Ken, you’ve got to be kidding me. Childress was the guy we never ran plays for. Marvin got more plays run for him (hence all the open midrange jumpers), and often passed the ball away when he wasn’t confident about shooting it. I’m not downing the guy, and I am pleased as punch that he has been practicing his 3 ball. He’s got a sweet, natural stroke and should be able to shoot it well. He just has to start shooting and develop the confidence to nail it. And he’s got to stop that crazy leg kick when he shoots. I can’t see what it possibly does for his balance.

The idea of trading him and injecting a guy like Okur into the lineup is to avoid redundancy in the front line. Okur is a big with exemplary outside shooting (as is Bargnani). However, if Marvin can ramp up his defense and rebounding, then that changes things. Right now, we love Marvin and his potential, and his talent. But right now we are also still running a 2 SF, 1 PF setup. It’s talented, but is it talented enough to overcome it’s shortcomings? Maybe, maybe not. We’ll see. Don’t worry, I’m not giving up on Marvin or even insisting we trade him. But just like I’ve always said with Josh Smith, do whatever makes the team better….if it’s keeping Marvin as our 3, then so be it. I don’t think the Hawks are ready to give him up yet anyway.

Najeh, damn man. Between you and Richie Boy…y’all are killin’ me! LOL!

By Dub C

August 10, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

R.I.P Issac Hayes!

By Dub C

August 10, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

R.I.P Isaac Hayes!

By jhan

August 10, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Marvin will never become a SG. Can you imagine him trying to guard JJ? I bet all the SG’s in the league would like to see that on a regular basis.

He would have an advantage on offense if he learned to post-up & finish at the rim. I just don’t see the lateral quickness in Marvin to play guard.

People say don’t worry because he is 22, but he will want to be paid like a successful veteran next year. Now is the time to worry & speculate what position he will play long term.

It all hinges on Al Horford really. If you want him to play PF, then Smith or Marvin has to be traded for a big man. If you want him to be an undersized Center then Marvin needs to step up and become a consistent SF in the league.

By MannyT

August 10, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

Why does this group generally lean toward more hope for Morris’s game than Marvin’s?

If Marvin does not improve one bit from last season, he will likely be MUCH better than Morris.

Whose minutes does Morris get?

Even if they don’t improve at all, Morris does not get any Al or Josh minutes.

Unless Zaza gets traded, Morris is the 2nd big off the bench for a coach that probably won’t go that deep into the bench. Zaza got 15 min/game last season. How many of those do you really expect Morris to get?

Best case 5/game. He’s more likely to get those 5 from Solomon, not Zaza.

If Marvin is faster and stronger, he should get more points from the FT line even if his handle is as shaky as before. Offensively, he will be more of a threat if he is developing the 3 ball.

Bottom line, the talent in this squad is primarily in the growth of the existing players. Evans becomes the 6th man, but with fewer minutes than Chills got. If Woody has learned to be adaptable, the bench will get opportunities based on matchups.

If new Woody is old Woody w/o hair—short bench, and we fight for 41-42 wins.

BWAF

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Here’s the Jim Boehiem Travel Blog

MarshMelo’s Been blogging too.

By Dub C

August 10, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

MannyT, good point, but I honestly think Morris will perform better than he has in past years. I think he’ll have something to prove everyone who’s doubting him. I think he will get some minutes, probably some of ZaZa’s.

As for Marvin, I can’t see him every playing the 2 guard. Simply not fast enough laterally to guard a true 2. If anything, he’ll do better as a backup 4, which I think was already mentioned. We shall see!

By MannyT

August 10, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Sir link a lot, er Aerios—is there a back story on the new handle?

I am glad to hear that we are getting a BMW (Bigger Marvin Williams). The ugliest matchup I recall last year was dealing with big, strong SF (Artest & LeBron) If Marvin has some bulk, hopefully he can hold ground when these big 3s start posting up.

Could Woody coach a center whose primary offense comes from the perimeter? If they could work with Sheed and Ben (no offense) Wallace, why not? Not that I expect it, but you never know. Bargiani’s contract looks quite good. However, if I were him, I’d be thinking about how much I could get paid to go back to a good Euroleague team.

BWAF

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 10, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

RIP Isaac Hayes.

By Gypsyjoe

August 10, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

G-Money

You must be a real little punk. Talking all that crap on a blog. You are a frigin Joke. PUNK.

By brad

August 10, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

this team is extremely young and talented: pg bibby, sg johnson, sf smith, pf horford, c morris. Bench is strong: evans, williams, zaza, acie. I was at game 6, home crowd was unbelievable and deafening. We got to help Hawks be unbeatable at home and they should have at least one homecourt advantage in a playoff series this season

By HB Ando

August 10, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Let’s clear a couple of things up.

Ken, I’m not discounting Marvin at all. In fact, I’m highlighting his value as our most likely asset in getting this roster balanced, for the ultimate goal of being legitimate.

Zaza is not the answer at the 5, or Woody would have played him there, for starters’ minutes, last year. And Horford, as a five, won’t survive playing the five against a Boston front line of Garnett and Perkins, any more than he’ll succeed against an LA front line of Gasol and Bynum.

Why is it so challenging for some of you to evaluate the optimal potential of this franchise in a competitive construct?

Are all these young forwards talented??

HELL YES!

Does that mean that the Hawks can compete for championships playing a front line of Marvin, Al and Josh?

HELL NO!

Even the Spurs always have a legitimate center, to play behind Duncan, as they compete, annually, for championships.

I’m saying don’t get hung up on the individual talent, or potential, of a specific player. Focus on what would be necessary for the Atlanta Hawks to be a legitimate contender for the NBA championship.

Screw fighting for the 8th seed every year!

What does this franchise have to do to complement the players they’ve committed to building around (Josh, Al and Joe)?

If you honestly believe that a long-term front line of Josh, Marvin and Al can compete with the likes of the Lakers, Celtics and Jazz, then enjoy your stay in la-la land.

And you folks who believe that Bibby is the long-term solution at PG, for the Hawks, will quietly fade on your position, when they inevitably trade him before the deadline. Don’t make it about me. It’s not. If I’m wrong, feel free to call me out and call me an idiot. But if I’m right, then your argument isn’t with me, but with the ASG, who, with limited financing a (clearly) major issue, know, like any other NBA franchise seeking to reduce their cap implication, will take advantage of Bibby value as an expiring contract.

Book it.

Sam, I don’t have any real fascination with Euro’s. And if I was you, based on your history of race-driven blatherings, I’d suggest that there’s something more than country of origin at play. Truth is this country rarely offers legitimate 5’s who can consistently stretch the defense, from long range. I said, repeatedly, that I’d love to see the Hawks obtain Love. He’s not a Euro (but I’m sure you’ll point out that he’s white, which must surely drive my appreciation of him).

I don’t give a damn what country the long-range shooting big is from, or what color his skin is, Sam. All I know is that Marvin, Al and Josh is too small of a front line to compete for championships. And if that’s the case, and the commitment is to Josh and Al, then Marvin is the odd man out, the team still lacks a balancing outside presence, on the front line, and Marvin has more trade value than anyone else on this team, in acquiring that big, who gives us a future chance of playing with the big boys.

And, to the dude who offered the 411 that the Hawks ARE a playoff team: that was last year, as in, “the Hawks WERE a playoff team, last year”. Means nothing going into next season.

As I’ve done a million times, if anyone here wants to put real money on the Hawks making the playoffs this year, step up and put your money where your mouth is. Put it in writing, legally binding, so I don’t have to worry about collecting from a welcher when the season ends.

And what’s up with “Smoove=overrated”? Isn’t it contradictory to bury your nose up Sund’s a*, and then totally disrespect the player Sund just agreed to pay $58 million?

I guess we’ll never get rid of the ever evolving rotation of village idiots/Hawks’ employees…….

By HHoops

August 10, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

Manny T, Ken, Terrell & Ray

I don’t think the Hawks are going to make a deal before Dec.15, but what do you think about trading Zaza & Speedy for Rasheed? I’m not sure that Dumars would go for it, but I wonder if he signed K. Brown in anticipation that he would try to trade Rasheed.

Would the contracts work?-Zaza(4 M) + Speedy(5.75 M) for Rasheed(13.8 M). Throw in Solomon if it takes his contract to make it happen.

If that doesn’t work, what about Bibby & Solomon for Rasheed? Then take a chance on S. Livingston to back up Acie & Speedy. This really improves our inside game with Rasheed’s defense and his outside shooting range that allows Horford and Josh to go to work, but maybe lossing Bibby is not worth it. What do you think?

I’m just trying to figure out a trade that would get a starting 5, that will help us now. At the same time he needs a short contract so we can have flexibility for next summer’s FA’s without loosing any of our core group!

By keanu

August 10, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

I think u got to get salim back he can be a good weapon for the Hawks he’s a really good 3 pt-shooter and ha can have good bench points for the Hawks he could help solve the josh childress leaving problem!!!!!!!!GO HAWKS!!!!

By roan st

August 10, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

Why in the f******* would dumars trade Rasheed wallace for speedy and Zaza? I know dumars said he was looking to possibly shake up the roster but I don’t remember him saying he wanted to destroy it. Geez H Hoops. When we talk trade on here lets be sensible and not live in fantasy land. NBA teams don’t trade good players for garbage. And why in the heck would detroit trade for mike bibby when they already have billips and stuckey? If you want to propose a trade make sure it works for both sides. Stupid trade proposals don’t do anything to foster good discussion like a realistic scenario can.

By doc

August 10, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

fudd21 just saw looking back where you answered my question. thanks not doubting you but someone else has it as 67 mil instead of the 54 mil quoted by espn. my take all along was they would spend in real dollars about 54 mil if they possibly could. can anyone get a handle on what the BASG is really going to allow for the budget this year?

right now i have a definite minimum to pay the hawks this year for tix since i bought playoff tickets. going forward i think i will consider what i spend further according to how far the hawks come off the minimum. they already choose to pay chills the minimum possible and do josh the same way. maybe as fans we ought to take a similar approach at how we should spend? smart fan business.

By BA

August 10, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Ando, the “village idiot” stuff is kind of lame, coming from a person who has been consistently wrong on a number of fronts.

This is the same Ando that wanted Noah (are you kidding me?!) over Horford.

The same guy that posted ad naseum that the Hawks payroll would NEVER approach, well, where it is right now.

And I’ll give you one more shot to skirt the question: If the salaries of a potential Bibby trade have to match (there’s still a salary cap, right?), then the BASG would’nt save any money by trading Bibby by the deadline.

So why trade him?

It makes no sense. For all the calling people idiots, you sure seem to come up wrong consistently.

Does Ando live in one of those glass houses?

By Dr. Dave

August 10, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Everyone keeps dogging Marvin and they all forget he’s only 22. I challenge anyone to name 5 players at his position who are his age and shoot the mid-range jumperas well as he does. This year he will have more expected of him, and he will have to produce if expects to see a decent contract.

By Werewolfoflondon

August 10, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

speaking of filling out our roster, I have a couple of names I would like some response about—-but first, who is this Gordon cat I keep seeing folks talking about us getting? there are two(2) former Clippers that would thrive in Atlanta… and we could really use the size and potential- both are 22-23, both 6’11”, one, Paul Davis is a C, 275, the othe Nick Fazekas is a PF/C, 235 and can light up the “3’s”—- they are cheap, hustlers, and have potential to become good players, given a shot, like in Atlanta where size is needed—Davis was destined to back up Elton Brand a couple of years ago, and I believe Fazekas(Nevada) may have been a rookie last season-Thanks, Tim

By roan st

August 10, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

BA, I agree with you about the scenario of a Bibby trade. I commented on this subject a few blogs ago. If the Hawks are running a tight budget and want future financial flexibility then why are they going to trade an expiring contract? NO way are they going to take back 17 million in salary and be on the hook for future years. I’m still waiting myself for someone to explain how trading Bibby works for the Hawks broke ownership group.

By doc

August 10, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

BA this is roughly what i get as far as money spent thus far:

three guards ~23 mil jj 12.5 (after the first year of 20 mil we owed him 50 in 4) marvin ~4.5 mil zaza 4 mil horford ~4 mil evans 2.5 mil morris .8 mil smith 11.5 mil chills “4mil”

62.8 real or 4 mil above cap vs 66.8 cap

that doesnt qualify as big spenders in my book, why are you saying otherwise?

ando’s point i think has been, which you might be missing, if the hawks are not in the race, which he doesnt think they will be, then bibby goes and we pick up throw aways and a draft pick. so that is the value of bibby. i guess there might be even a, what, trade exemption?, to get as well so we dont take back salary if it can work that way. if it did it would save the organization about 5 to 7 mil depending on how early the plug is pulled for this season.

bottom line, ever so important to watch is bibby can be money back in their pockets if he is traded, if and when the season is out of reach. just good business sense that so many admired as we watched the last six weeks, right? like not paying up your talent if you play that game. watch for the bait and switch or the shell game BA. the trade off, if they perform and woody coaches everyone is excited and the owners look good and may even look to take on some salary if there is a true dividend in doing so.

By Aerios (S.F)

August 10, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Jim Beohiem on right before the opening ceremonies

Before we did march in, the entire American team - and there are about 600 of us altogether - gathered in a building, and President Bush and his father addressed us. When they were finished, they took pictures with us.

Then, something amazing happened because all of a sudden all of the other athletes came running over to Kobe and LeBron to get pictures taken with them. I mean, they just swarmed all over those two guys. You had to see it to believe it.

That is freakin’ rediculous lol. Way to be American professional athletes guys. REAL classy……I would have at least WALKED over in a casual fashon insted of bum rushing the guys hehehehehehehe….

By BA

August 10, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

OK, Doc, I get it. I guess it just didn’t occur to me that they would be “out of it”. Is anybody EVER really out of it in the East?

62.8 certainly doesn’t qualify as “big spenders”. But it’s a lot different than what our long-winded one predicted.

I think this is a 45-50 win team this year, barring injury. After that Boston series, I have trouble believing that the Hawks will be a non-contender looking to dump their starting point guard at the deadline.

By jhan

August 10, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

You trade Bibby for 2-3 players that will work for your team. Preferably a PG, C, shooter, cap space or some picks. This means you have several players that can perform for the same $15 Million Bibby makes.

That allows you to lose the salary of ZaZa & potentially trade Speedy next year. That would give an additional $10 Million to use for JJ & Marvin if you need to.

I’m no cap expert but I believe that would work. They can always allow Bibby & ZaZa to play out their deals & sign free agents.

Anyway, unless Bibby agrees to a 3/30 contract extension I have to believe he is gone this year.

By Jim Burn is Roaming

August 10, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

1-Bibby, 2-JJ, 3-Marvin, 4-Horford, 5-R. Morris/Zaza. Where do you put your 11.6mil/yr guy, JSmooth? You have been dying to move Horford to the 4 and clog the middle with a BIG! Where does this leave JSmooth? Do you bring him off the bench? Do you put him at the 3? I was surprised that the Hawks did not work out a sign/trade deal. You have 10 players under contract does Atlanta go with the 12 mandatory or 15? This would put Atlanta very close to the cap. Also, you guys have a coach that does not go deep into his bench. Where do you die hard ATL fans have your team finishing? 37 wins won’t get you into the playoffs this year! Your starting 5 is decent. You have Mo Evans off the bench, but who else? Are you guys going to run JJ to death like you did last year? TALK TO ME ATLANTA FANS!!! I think with your starting 5, barring injuries, you guys can finish .500, but I am concerned about what you all do over an 82 game season.

By MannyT

August 10, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Zaza is in town.

Just saw him on Fox 5 news talking about the war conflict with Russia at a rally downtown.

By BA

August 10, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

If all Sac got for Bibby was Shellhead and a hill of beans, who’s going to give up three quality players like that?

Don’t get me wrong, if you could get that much for Bibby, by all means. But I don’t think he would be that valuable on the trade market.

By femhawkfan

August 10, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

Its has been awhile since I commented because it was getting to a point that I was really disgusted with the Hawks organization this summer (actually, I am still slightly disgusted, but that is besides the point). I am glad that Smoov was FINALLY signed. Hopefully, everyone can move on now and get ready for this coming season.

By Jim Burn is Roaming

August 10, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

The SE division-Wizards, Heat, Hawks, Orlando, Charlotte. I really feel that the Hawks can finish 3rd behind Wizs and Magic. Miami will be tougher this year! Dwade looks to be back in true form!!

By doc

August 10, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

ba i think 50 is a huge reach and beyond the scope of this team. very few teams make that kind of a move of 13 plus games on one season without a huge newcomer added to the mix. we need huge organic growth as we have lost a significant player in chills as he was a finisher not a starter. the former is the type guy i want on my team. any improvement has to come with an injury free year like last.

as i look to the future i see it a very difficult run to get back to the playoffs and a 34 to 41 game win total. if pressed i’d say 38. the bucks and bobcats will bring more and have improved more than we have as well as the pacers will be expected to be testy. i see us pushing against those three teams at least to make it into the playoffs at all as the 8 seed again at best. that is my early prediction as it is still early too call it as all roster spots have not been filled but that is my range for now. it is really tough to win in this league. we have to pass through a very tough opening string as well.

By MannyT

August 10, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Taking a peek at Hoopshype, I think the Hawks have used just over 65 mil in cap space for 11 players (b/c they don’t have a number for Evans which is prob around 2.5 mil.) They have to add at least 2 more by rule. If they are min contracts (assume Mario & Jeremy) that probalby adds about 2 mil. So they are under lux tax, but paying a good rate. Not sure how the tender for Chills factors into cap this season or next.

HHoops Dumars wants some kind of value for Wallace. In your deal he gets Zaza’s expiring 4 mil. He really doesn’t need Speedy. If I’m Dumars I’m not making that deal.

As folks debate what the line ups will be, I do like the flexibility that is there.

If we have to focus small, let Evans play the 2 and JJ play the 3.

If we have to play big, Zaza gets the 5, Al the 4, and Josh the 3.

Until I see some on court proof, I have no significant expectations for Morris this season.

I cannot see any real extension talks with Bibby b/c neither he nor the Hawks have a good idea how effective he will be when healthy. It would be selling yourself short to sign early when you are coming off an injury. Similarly, you cannot move him for value until he shows what he can do. I cannot see him getting traded unless we stink out the joint, or somoene offers a magic beans deal to the Hawks.

Aerios It’s easy for Boeheim to make that call b/c he has a large salary. Many Olympians are top notch athletes, but not top paid atheletes. No one is ahead of Michael Phelps in potential Olympic accomplishment this year. His earnings (even with endorsements) will not come close to the basketball players. Forbes sheds light on the issue.

If Bill Gates is in a room of rich folks, most will gravitate toward him. Same follow the money deal, but the industry is earning power in athletics.

Fiscal CRAP rules!

By randy

August 10, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

I am glad they kept their word on Smith, but they probably could have had him for about 1 million $ less a year if they would have been more proactive and less reactive.

By randy

August 10, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

It will be interesting how the lineup shakes out…Do we continue playing 1.Bibby 2. JJ 3. Marv 4. Josh 5. Horford? Obviously, Smith can alternate btw the 3 and 4, and Horford btw the 4 and 5. I have a feeling we will have same lineup just use Horford more at the 4 and Smith at the 3 later in the game, since Chillz is gone. That way we can use Morris and Zaza more at center this year. I see Marv getting about 20 min a game since he is the weak link.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this

MannyT, I had a good long explanation for you but I guess it got sucked into the void lol…..I’ve added on to the name too heh.

I’ll post the very long explanation later, Yes I spelled it wrong too lol.

I hear you. Follow the cash flow heh. On the Carmelo blog he talks about why it would be impossible for them to stay in the olympic vallage. They were mobbed by other athletes there as well…..As a matter of fact the only time they didn’t get mobbed was in Macao, China. But that was huge casino/Arena/hotel.

Bill Gates and Bron-Bron are friends also lol…..WOW.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

I think it also has a lot to do with television coverage. I personally don’t think they show nearly enough track/swimming meets on televison throught the year. I know these sports don’t have a set SEASON but still, i’d like to know what’s going on with those guys too.

When you see someone on TV, it creates an aura around them…….These guys (Non-Basketball USA athletes) need more Coverage!!!!

There’s barely any Track&Feild stars that I can Identify this year. What’s going on???

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this

Did you guys see that 4x100 mens swimming relay…….rediculousness at it’s finest. That’s what happens when you trash talk team USA.

Also RIP Isaac Hayes. I know you guys remeber the SHAFT theme song…..That’s him.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this

Why are they holding the rally downtown??? This isn’t the United State’s conflict. Personally this conflict kind of warrants forigin involvement but i’m sick of the US getting themselves into trouble because we meddle in other countries affairs. What the hell is the UN and NATO for????? Whose payroll are they on???

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this

I’m Black and I don’t favor watermelons.

The only ingnorant person here is you and your improper spelling…..

Wheres the Blog Patrol when you need them?????

By doc

August 11, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this

aerios sf this is just because:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIP7a9Z-YBM

By doc

August 11, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

aerios one more:

ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEM0VETMCSQ&feature=related

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

Doc, You have just done your contry a great service, we are in debted to you ;-)

By HB Ando

August 11, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this

BA, I defy you to cut and paste any previous post, of mine, where I called for the Hawks to draft Noah instead of Horford. Didn’t happen. So you’re nothing more than a liar, misrepresenting the opinions of people you don’t agree with.

I DID suggest that I would have liked for the Hawks to leverage the 13th pick, in some reasonable fashion, to move up and take Noah, IN ADDITION to Horford. And I still think it would have been the right thing to do.

Folks spouting ridiculous predictions, about 50-win seasons, will evaporate just like they did last summer.

BA, since you were utterly dishonest in misrepresenting my opinion on Horford, why don’t you go back in the archives, and find one, meaningful, prediction that I’ve made, that was wrong.

Don’t be a lazy liar, and just make stuff up, in a weak attempt to minimize my opinions.

I haven’t heard you, or anybody else, respond with any intelligence, as to how a front line, made up of 6’8 Smith, 6’8 Marvin, and 6’10 Horford, is going to successfully compete with the front lines of the existing, top-tier, franchises (Lakers are currently projecting a front line of 6’10 Odom, 7’0 Gasol, and 7’1 Bynum, not to mention a guy named Kobe; and the World Champions will roll out 6’7 Pierce, 6’11 Garnett, and 6’11 Perkins).

This team, as it’s currently constructed (lesser now, from a rebounding standpoint, for the exchange of Childress with Evans), has repeatedly, over the last 2 years, been dominated in the paint.

It’s pretty simple: Miami, with the addition of Beasley, the integration of Marion, and, if you’ve been watching Wade recently, the return of one of the most dominant players in the NBA, as well as Chicago and Milwaukee, will all be better than the Hawks.

Keeping Woody was a mistake. And this years’ team, barring any unexpected transactions, is relying solely on the maturation of Horford, Smith and Williams, with a net reduction in team talent in the loss of Childress.

Bibby is too expensive for a borderline playoff team to keep. And he will be traded before the deadline.

If you don’t believe it, be man enough to come back here, when it plays out just this way, and admit you were wrong.

And the offer, BA, to put money on the Hawks not making the playoffs, stands. Put your money where your mouth is, and we’ll see who the “village idiot” is……..

By doc

August 11, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this

aerios here is some serious junk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7hIcUucPVs&NR=1

sweet dreams, this is one clyde will appreciate.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this

You know, They did a special on t.v (FSN or NBC I forgot) a week ago about female news anchors. Yup, it’s all a ploy to gain more viewers….evil b*******. They just know i’m not going to change the channel when I see one of those sexah news ladies pop up on screen…….just eveil…..they should be ashamed.

By HB Ando

August 11, 2008 1:42 AM | Link to this

doc, shouldn’t you be resting up to poke holes in folks tomorrow?

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

In the words of ray, Ding!!!!

I doubt we’ll loose to Milwaukee though, and Gasol is still softer than cotonell tissue lol. I really don’t think with Morris and Zaza coming off the bench it will be as big of a problem like it was last year.

That is of course, If Sund makes woody play the bench more lol.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this

Ahhhh!!!! OMFG Overload!!!! Who is that????? Sexah!!!!!!

By HB Ando

August 11, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this

doc, downright freakish junk. I’m speechless……….

By HB Ando

August 11, 2008 2:30 AM | Link to this

Ariose, take a harder look at the match ups with the Bucks. With Mo at the point, and Redd and Jefferson on the wings, Bogut will have nothing but single coverage on the block. He’s one of the best passing big men in the league. And with Charlie V’s ability to drain 3’s, like Redd and RJeff, they project to be a very challenging team to defend (especially since they’ll be playing for a quality new coach, in Porter).

This will not be the Bucks of old, barring injury to one of the guys hightlighted. I like a healthy Mo Williams over Bibby all day. JJ and Redd are a wash. Marvin can’t cover Richardson, and if that utter mismatch requires Smith to cover him, Horford is on an island against a rapidly improving Bogut, with Marvin covering the Bucks talented, but inconsistent, Charlie V.

Alternatively, going big, Bogut will dominate Zaza, Horford will be taken way too far from the basket by CV’s face up game, and Smith will have to maintain a tremendously focused effort on Jefferson, unless he wants to get lit for 25.

On the flip side, Bogut can handle either Horford or Zaza down low. Villanueva has the length and athleticism to manage Marvin. And Jefferson will sag, against Josh, daring him to beat the Bucks from outside. Redd and JJ will cancel each other out, and if Mo Williams is 100%, he’s flat quicker than Bibby. Don’t discount Porter’s impact.

2 cents…..

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 11, 2008 4:23 AM | Link to this

Erin Andrews is nice for a sports chick. Ines Sainz though, damn, that’s a whole other level.

Ando, I’m way too lazy right now to refute most of the points you made in your post, but Charlie Villanueva is not nearly as good as you make him out to be. He showed off his “ability to drain 3’s” last year by shooting at a blazing 29.7% clip. If his 3 point shooting ability is a force to be reckoned with then even Josh Smith should feel justified hanging around the 3 point line more often. (shudder)

Also, I believe their coach is the hard-azz, defensively demanding but somewhat offensively challenged Scott Skiles, not Terry Porter (who is the Suns coach if I’m not mistaken). So if anything the Bucks will be somewhat better at defense and approaching Woodson-esque levels on offense.

By richie boy

August 11, 2008 4:42 AM | Link to this

BA,

I don’t like taking sides, but I can vouch for ANDO’S outlook on Noah. He wanted us to move up in the draft to get him along with Horford, as I recall. I don’t agree with everything he says and have gotten over the long-windedness some time ago, but I will say you may be hard pressed to find a spot where he has been dead wrong about something. As for the argument about the payroll. Well, the season has yet to begin, which means the year is not over. I’d say ANDO was wrong if we went all year at this payroll. Until then, it’s still up in the air as to what the payroll will finally be. Also, Bibby’s attraction isn’t his skills. It’s his skills added to that large expiring contract. That’s his attraction.

ANDO,

Actually I could find one thing you’re wrong about and it’s a small one. Scott Skiles is Milwaukee’s new coach. Terry Porter is elsewhere. Just a minor correction though.

By jdewayneatl

August 11, 2008 7:22 AM | Link to this

I must admit that it was a sigh of relief and a little bit of excitment to know that the Josh Smith situation was finally something I could look back on. And now the organization and its fans can move on to the anticipation of the season with much of the core of the team still together. But I will miss Childress this season. Though he wasn’t the best player or even a starter for the team, he was a part of the heart of the team.

So if anyone can answer this one question for me please do.

Though Childress won’t be playing in a Hawks uni this year, the Hawks were still able to retain his rights when his contract was up or if he decided to come back but they would still have to take a hit against the salary cap. Are the Hawks taking that hit to the salary cap and retaining the rights to Childress.

By doc

August 11, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this

aroise, the bucks and their guards and length have owned us the lat few years. if the young hawks can win against them early it is a good sign. if not it is a bell weather for the season.

go back and look to manny t’s response at the very end of the last blog and was overloooked. i would be quick to second his outlook for what we have done this off season.

at best we have stood still while most teams in the east have moved ahead at least the ones that closely followed us. the bulls will be better if they get derrick rose hooked in but their coach is unproven so they could look as bad as milwaukee last year. heat maybe as well as the knicks. i cant see any teams free falling as we were the only team close to imploding during the off season before the signing of smith.

By doc

August 11, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this

inez, major league junk and would change even a leg man like me.

aj, better check this out before you go to work even if you go to the dog house.

By Tom

August 11, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

Sorry about this but who is Bernie Mac?? Is he a basketball player? Just don’t know.

By MannyT

August 11, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

doc you have now given me another reason to scan the Spanish channels on TV. A great way to start the day.

jdewayneatl I know that they have to tender an offer to Chills to keep his rights. I am not sure what effect that has on their cap once it is clear to the NBA that he won’t be in the league. I’ll check into it.

Ando You are not wrong about the Bucks coach, just time warped as Porter was the coach several years ago. You can predict things well regarding the Hawks. Hmmmmm. My conspiracy theory is in tact.

Ariose I love the Olympics because I get to see a bunch of sports that you normally miss because they don’t get good TV ratings. Face it, when we had the Olympics here, the track venue did not last a year before it became Turner Field. Even though the SEC is a top notch track & field conference. Most of the sport doesn’t translate into compelling TV for the average person.

Michael Phelps will probably finish this Olympics with more career Gold medals than anyone ever. Josh Childress probably earned more than Phelps last year.

That 4x100 swim relay was hysterically historic. I let out a scream at the end. I am extremely excited about the track & field. Even some of the offbeat event like Badminton hold my interest for awhile.

The 2nd USA medal won at these games was by a local woman in fencing. It’s amazing how fast those points go.

USA has over 600 team members. I’d guess that the average person could name 10 athletes and a good sports fans could do about 5-7% of the team.

I love these games!

By MannyT

August 11, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Back to hoops.

This article cracks me up because it shows how different the same game can be.

Imagine Jerry Colangelo trying to get someone to tell him how much he needs in Chinese Yuan for his protest envelope. LOL

Good luck to the redeem team.

FIBA CRAP and NBA CRAP are quite different!

By Samuel

August 11, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Ando,

Has nothing to do with race. Euro bigs are just soft. Point Blank.

You’re saying that the Hawks need to get bigger but suggest that we get Bargnani. A seven footer who plays 6’5”. Please!! He’s a 3 (perpetrating as a 5). I predict he wind up back in Europe, where he should be.

Love is actually growing on me. He and My Boy Al Jefferson should work well together. He’ll have trouble getting his shot off against legit bigs inside though. He won’t get all those pumpfake fouls when the season starts but he looks like a keeper. McHale did well with that trade. I think. Mayo is the truth.

Doc, Josh Smith and Rasheed’s game are totally different. Rasheed is a talented and smart all-around player who happens to be 7’. Smith is a freak who happens to be playing basketball. He can be one of the best of all time at what he can do (shooting the 3 not being one of them) but is no where near the all-around basketball player as Sheed. There hasn’t been many in the NBA at any size.

Miami Ando? They have three players. Who’s gonna rebound and defend? The Bucks are talented but there won’t be enough shots to go around.

Ray,

What happened? You didn’t catch that mistake by Yo Boy Ando on Porter. You slippin man.

Fire Ray

By ray

August 11, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Hmmmph.

By Jim Burn is Roaming

August 11, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

No one has answered where do you put the 11.6/mil man, JSmooth?

By roan st

August 11, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Ando, if my memory serves me right weren’t you a big proponent of drafting Noah or YI instead of horford. I know you’re right about some predictions but this notion that you are always right is rediculous. I’m pretty sure that you predicted that the hawks would’nt make the playoffs last year as well.

By doc

August 11, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

manny t …… OLE!!!!

samuel 2 inches and smith is 22 and his numbers are better, here is the research:

sheed, http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3006/career;_ylt=AnHZ3BviqJ6442UoR1WHlgGkvLYF

smith, http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3834/career;_ylt=AnHZ3BviqJ6442UoR1WHlgGkvLYF

ii know it wont mean anything to you as information has never gotten in the way of your opinion but others might want to take a look and see smith stacks up well against the best of them as you and i agree sheed is.

whatever.

By doc

August 11, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

okay samuel, i did the math for you.

sheed took 235 shots from three point range and made 65 of them in his first FIVE years in the league …. averages out to ~27.5%.

eerie comparison, no? funny, he also didnt start to make them until he increased his numbers of shots taken. imagine how if you were his coach, sheed may not have been allowed to shoot it if you are saying smith at ~26% shouldnt, using the same logic or lack thereof.

By Ken Strickland

August 11, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

HHOOPS-I’m not big on RWallace. He’s not the kind of personality, nor does he have the kind of work habits a young team needs. The last two yrs he’s done a lot of talking and disrespecting of the opposition, but hasn’t stepped it up himself. It just wouldn’t be good for our young players to have Rasheed as a distraction. He would have our youngsters constantly trying to calm him down and get him to focus on something other than himself. His attitude and poor work habits are part of the reason he’s tradeable.

There have been people that were critical of JSmiths attitude over the last yr or so. Imagine what they’d have to say about Rasheed. What about the negative influence he might have on Josh?

MANNYT-I recently read where keeping the rights to Chills will require us to utilize some of our cap space. I just don’t know how it actually works out in terms of actual numbers.

RAY-I don’t have a problem with Marvin passing on shots his doesn’t feel comfortable taking. I wish JSmith would occasionally follow that approach, especially on some of those 3’s.

ANDO-I’m not so certain trading Marvin will provide the balance you’re looking for. We need a certain type of BIG to fill the 5 position. A high percentage shooter, especially for a SF, like Marvin can add OFF balance to a team like our who’s overall shooting has been weak. Trading Smoove, and moving Horford to PF, would give us a much better chance of acquiring the quality 5 we need to compete for a championship.

By kgbsfinst

August 11, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Rome

Smith is our PF, Horford is our center. Smith has, and can play PF, as well as Horford at center. Center isnt his “ideal” position, but it worked this year pretty good, and hes only going to get bigger and stronger. I dont see us getting a better duo than those two. Plenty of people have made a good living in the NBA playing out of position(Barkley comes to mind right away), theres no reason Al cant.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 11, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Since I have no home internet at the moment, had to wait til’ work but I couldn’t not (yeah, yeah, double negative) post about us re-upping Smoov. Though the circumstances were FAR from optimal, the result is ideal- Smoov is a Hawk, as it should be for reasons we all know. This does not exhonorate him from criticism either now or invariably when he falters during the season, but it does show the committment to investment on the part of the BASG (please believe I’m not lauding them as an entity, just an action taken in this instance). I was sitting there at my friend’s computer cheering like it was Game 4 of the playoffs- because I know that I’ll have many more playoff opportunities to cheer; this helps ensure that. Call me an optimist, or just high off still drying pen ink but I venture to say it will be this season…

RISE UP

By ray

August 11, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Samuel, what makes you think I didn’t? The difference is I can call him at da house and tease him, I don’t have to come here…

You’re right that Sheed and Smith’s games are different. You know what’s killin’ me though? How about your assessment of Rasheed as an all-around highly talented basketball player and Josh as a freak who just happens to be playing basketball.

I look at last season’s statistics, and the playoff statistics. Our freak is statistically superior to your all-world talented 7-footer in every damn category except three-pointing shooting (and turnovers), both in regular season and the playoffs (pick a series). Guess what? It was that way in the season before that, too. Rasheed is getting Marvin Williams numbers, but hitting about 100 or so 3s. If Marvin’s serious about it, he’ll be doing that within a year or two. The only thing ‘Sheed does better than Josh is hit more 3s at a higher percentage and committ about 1.5 less turnovers….for now. Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals? This guy isn’t near Smith, who’s “just a freak.” In fact, he hasn’t been since ‘03-‘04.

And you think this dude is better than Dirk Nowitzki (oh yeah, you thought I forgot that one, huh)? I don’t know who’s slippin worse homeboy, him or you.

Ken, I’ll say it like this: we needed Marvin to take some of those shots. Why do you suppose Smith was doing some of the things he did? He was trying to make things happen and take some of the burden off of JJ. You should know that having been as frustrated as I was at the famous “JJ Iso” play that was Woody’s bread and butter. Besides, how do you ever become comfortable with a shot if you don’t take it? If it isn’t obvious by now, there’s a reason why Smith was our second leading scorer for the last two seasons and why he could be a 20ppg scorer before Marvin. Aggression, will, confidence. Add those to Marvin and I promise you have a guy who gives you 21 and 8 a game…or more. We might even see that this year.

As for Josh, yeah I’ve cringed many a time watching him launch a three. On the one hand, if our offense becomes diverse and potent enough, then there’s less need for him to launch any long distance shots. On the other hand, I can’t blame a guy for trying to expand his game. We want Marvin to expand his, don’t we?

By ray

August 11, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

#21=top 50, it’s never too late to join this party.

kgbsfinst, I think JBR just wants an argument. Why else ask the question? It’s not like Smith got added to the lineup, he was already in it…and if you ever watched the Hawks, you know where he plays….

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 11, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Now to address some blog topicals..

Ken It used to be annoying but I am beginning to appreciate our Duck/Smoov debates. I want to commend you on the following passage:

*I did a little research, and the results were interesting. JSmith is a better all around player, no doubt, but Marvin isn’t that far behind offensively. *

This is a non-sequitur veiled in logical concession. So that means what exactly? By concocting your own metric Smoov still comes out “better” than Duck, and that’s without including about 75pts on 3 pts. The admission that Smoov is a better player, undoubtedly, is then contrasted by the fact that in half of the game, Duck is almost of as good as Smoov if you don’t count all his stats. This of course makes no mention of the defensive side of the game where comparison is futile. Keep pluggin away, I want to be convinced (more so by Duck’s play himself, but I’ll always entertain discussion).

We focus on what he “can’t” do because he has more “cant’s” than cans right now- a problem considering we are always being sold on his “could do’s”. Again, I’m not averse to Duck as a citizen, man, human, etc; just not sold on him as a “core player” or auto-matic extension. I think the fact that so many more people were calling for Smoov’s extension at this point last year vs how many want to “wait and see” what Duck does this year speaks to a lot of these points…

Ando

Though this may seem in part contrary to what I debate with Ken on, I do venture to say a frontline of 6’10, 6’9, and 6’9 could win a championship- funny thing is it worked for the current steward of the squad in Detroit. Ben, Sheed, and Tayshaun are all the approximate heights of Al, Smoov, and Duck (depending on what site you look at their heights of course). CLEARLY I’M NOT SAYING THAT THE COMPARISON’S BETWEEN THE TWO SQUADS IS EXACT. I’m just simply noting that the precedent for such an “undersized” championship lineup exists- agains Shaq and Kobe and two other HOF’ers no less.

Jim Burn, etc

Your initial post is all over the place. You first of all state a lineup for the Hawks then ask where Smoov would fit; you’re assuming that’s what the starting lineup would be. By definition since we can only field 5 at a time, you’re right there’s no room for Smoov- good job! You also state that 37 wins won’t get us into the playoffs this year, but then “see us” as a .500 type team. 500 usually gets teams into the playoffs (not that that is what I am asking for, but I think that is very attainable). The solace I take from your posts is that you seem to trying a sports talk question type approach where you just raise questions in a suggestive manner without acutally asserting anything- Rome paradoy successful.

Samuel

Europeans are generally soft- agreed. They are often more fundamentally sound and team oriented however. Trade offs. I don’t think the Hawks need that type of player. Why else do we keep signing, or thinking of signing, Lo Wright. We need toughness on the inside, whatever continent it comes from.

Also statistically, Smoov is more the historical anomoly than Sheed; check up on it. Sheed is still a better player at this point, but the margin continues to close.

Manny- I think there is hope that Morris will just provide the something we need, which is just consistent, serviceable C play. I doubt anyone predicts a bigger season by him by any stretch. Just indivudually speaking he can do better, based on “potential”. Think about how it was when we all found out who Zaza was 3 years ago, if we got that production from the 5 every night, plus some D of course, we’d be a better team.

RISE UP

By T.C

August 11, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

I just think all of you who sit down and argue on a computer are simple minded.why fuss about something neither one of you can control.It is what it is rather you all like it or not.I bet when you go around your friends they run from your insecurity.

By T.C

August 11, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

I just think all of you who sit down and argue on a computer are simple minded.why fuss about something neither one of you can control.It is what it is rather you all like it or not.I bet when you go around your friends they run from your insecurity.

By kgbsfinst

August 11, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

I’m a little surprised people are talking about trading Bibby. I get it if we are not in the playoff hunt. What I dont understand is why we would get rid of our best PG on the team because of the money. The ASG has already commited to the money, otherwise I dont think they would have matched the Smith offer. Also I think they would demand he be traded before the season starts.

Lets not forget, we will not get equal value for him this year. If we still have a chance of making the playoffs(and making some noise in it), I dont see us hurting our chance by getting rid of an important piece of the puzzle.

That would be like having the best record in the league and getting rid of the greatest player in franchise history…….wait!

By A.S.

August 11, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Sekou what do you see in Francisco Elson? Yes he may be big but we just added Randolph Morris.

By Samuel

August 11, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Doc,

If that’s what the numbers say. So be it. I really don’t need numbers to evaluate a player. Any real basketball man will tell you that Josh Smith is not even close to being the shooter and all-around player that Rasheed is. If numbers are your only judge, then have at it. I can understand why.

Ray,

You cringe because even an untrained eye like yourself can tell that something aint right. Shaq and D Howard could probable hit 30% from there but should they be shooting them?

I’m really not worried about Josh. Like I have said, I believe that the playoffs did wonders for everyone. He will understand.

By Jim Burn is Roaming

August 11, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

#21 I was surprised that the Hawks kept Josh. You nor anyone else has told me WHERE he is going to start at. In order to get “Smoove” in there, Marvin or Horford will have to come off the bench. I think that most fans agree that Horford would be a better 4 than a 5, even though he looked good at the 5. Getting a center was to move Horfod. I thought that Randolph did that for you. Will marvin come of the bench and put “Smoove” at the 3?

By Samuel

August 11, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Another thing,

Watch how wide open Josh is when he shoots the 3. Other teams want him shooting the 3 because they know he’s not a 3 point shooter and is not really gonna hurt them from there. Then watch how teams play Sheed. You think he will be left that wide open? Don’t think so. Probably explains the similarity in percentages. Rasheed will always pull his man out. Smith won’t because teams want him to take the 3.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

1)How do you know that Smoove isn’t working on his 3pt shor RIGHT NOW??? I remeber when Rasheed was in Portland he used to get crticized for chucking up threes. Yes he missed a lot at first but he got better at it. He just needs more time. ONLY 22 REMEMBER????

I don’t think Smith should warrant the kind of criticisim that Sheed got for doing it because unlike sheed, Smith can play some SF if need be.

2) I’m not even going to get into the Bucks/Hawks debate. The Bucks lost last year and until they show me something, I don’t care to speculate.

#21=Top 50,1stBallot, That’s what the NBA is. Unlike the Eureleauge, the NBA focuses on flaws instead of the positive. But that doesn’t change the fact that Marvin was a defensive Liability last season until he stepped his game up against the Celtics in game 6 of the playoffs.

3) Morris is only 22 years old. Like Horford, Marvin, Smoove, and Acie he’s still going through growing pains.

Smoove is a Historical Anomoly???? Then what the hell is LeBron??? Smoove is a future All-Star, not some Freak who belongs in a zoo who just happens to play ball. Give credit where credit is due. Did you see smoove play in HS??? He hit threes all the time and he was unstopable in the paint. Oak Hill 38-0 #1 Ranking Nationally during his season there. That’s Talent and Hard work son, not an anomoly.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Elson is just more polished at this point and he’s also a great finisher. He’s Skinny and get’s pushed off the block a lot though.

Seriously though guys we have at least FOUR 22 year olds on the team. Time is required….

Also i’m betting that Luke Jackson, Thomas Gardner, and Morris will make us a better squad then we were last year. If they see Significant minutes, I think we see significant improvement.

Part of the problem last season was fatiuge (Thanks woody). This season he will have adequate weapons at his disposal so there shouldn’t be any excuses. We should be intense on Defense at all times.

By doc

August 11, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

stiil ignoring the info i see. cool, but numbers for sheed dont lie when he was a fledgling like smith. anyhoo, hope marvin can bring the three and josh never needs to be stuck out there or woody comes up with an offense that works beside an iso jj. i guess any real basketball man could see that wasnt too fruitful without even looking to any numbers. numbers do, however, tend to validate opinion not the other way around.

at least we are chatting about basketball instead of the other CRAP.

hmmmmm something smelly evaporated must have been a cool breeze.

By terrell barron

August 11, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Ando, First you say, the Hawks cant compete with Horford, Smith, and Williams. But then you turn around and give props to the heat with Beasley 6’7, Marion 6’7, and Haslem 6’8? You just contradicted yourself. We have Joe to defend Wade, and I’ll take Bibby over Chalmers any day of the week. YOU CANT BE SERIOUS? And how many times do we play the CELTICS and the LAKERS? Whatever man. We can just throw out Bibby, JJ, Smoove, Horford, and Morris when we play those teams, and bring Marvin off the bench with Evans and Zaza. Problem solved.

By Samuel

August 11, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Guys,

I’m probably the biggest Josh Smith fan on this blog. I think he’s capable to rising to Dr. J status when he understands where his bread and butter is. Julius would occassionally take a 15-20 footer, but he is where is because he did what he did better than anyone else ever has.

Josh shouldn’t totally abandon the 15-20 foot shot but the 3 is out of his range. I don’t care how much he works on it.

Anomoly. That’s a mighty big word. You might want to check your spelling though. The blog police are mighty tough on this blog. We got some real intellectuals here.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

LOl @ Doc

MannyT, I see your point regarding the Olympics. I couldn’y name 50 members on the USA olympic team lol.

I saw that article the other day…….IDK if I was the coach I wouldn’t have done it. No faith in his players to get the stop if you ask me. But it would porvide for a drama-filled Gold Medal game.

If youre watching the B-Ball games, You guys might wanna take naps today b/c I think the tams start playin at like 3:00 am our time. USA doesn’t play until tomorrow morning for us.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 11, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Ariose- Yeah, you completely missed that one “son”. Smoov IS a historical anomoly in terms of the statistical categories he contributes to qualitatively speaking. He and Bron are not really similar with respect to their games and only marginally so with categories. Smoov’s closest two players in terms of stat’s are the Matrix and AK-47. Smoov’s does things better that Matrix beats him at better than Matrix compares to Smoov’s strenghts (reread that again if it doesn’t make sense, couldn’t think how else to phrase it. Ha). Meanwhile, AK is a shell of his former self so that comparison is moot.

Moral of the story is that I was saying that in a positive light Smoov is an anomoly. He does things that few if any can do in terms of high volume in multiple categories (insert TO’s here as well for now).

I at no point, ever, have lauded Marvin Gaye “Duck” Williams for anything related to defensive profficiency, let alone prowess. Game 6 in that respect is the anomoly.

RISE UP

By kgbsfinst

August 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didnt Josh take 99 three’s last year? Thats less than 1.25 a game. Again, correct me if I’m wrong, but I watched a lot of games last year, and I remember Josh taking a lot of three’s at the end of the shot clock. I think thats a part of his game he can improve on, and am willing to live with about one three per game.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Sam I misspelled it b/c I was mimmicking how #21=Top 50,1stBallot spells it.

Also I know all about the Blog Police here

(S.F)=SalimFan

By jhan

August 11, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

How long will Perkins & Gasol last chasing Horford up & down the court?

When Horford comes out then we lay the big bodies of ZaZa & Morris on them. I also like the chances of our back-up bigs versus their back-up bigs.

I still would like to see a real Center signed for the future - which means choosing who the SF is going to be. At this poing Smith is my choice but let’s see what Marvin comes up with this year.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

#21=Top 50,1stBallot, To refresh your memory August 11, 2008 12:48 PM go check it out.

Also statistically, Smoov is more the historical anomoly than Sheed; check up on it. Sheed is still a better player at this point, but the margin continues to close.

Thought you had me didn’t you………..nope, Too Smoove for School son lol.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

#21=Top 50,1stBallot, You just did it again lol. It’s Anomaly.

By terrell barron

August 11, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Since when has NOT KNOWING THE TEAMS COACH been a minor error? lol!! Pumping up a team(Bucks), and you dont even know who the coach is. Priceless!

By doc

August 11, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

geez samuel i know you arent referring to me but are you now anti-intellectual, too? man anti-euro, what else?

i am more worried that other teams arent yet concerned about marvin as they tend to dare him by giving him wide berth to shoot his little 12 footer than josh being left open at the three line. again i would rather marvin do it but last year smith was the guy who would at least take the shot even if there was only one second left on the shot clock as a hot potato in his hands. he stuck a few that were significant to the point he almost seemed to do it better under pressure.

no, i dont want josh out there either so we agree. dare you to again look to see sheed had as little business being out there when he was a fourth year pro as josh did as pointed out by the true intellectual ariose sf who i think has a portland history..

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

#21=Top 50,1stBallot, Ahh now I understand. I agree with you on that regard.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 11, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Concession- “anomaly”. I would try to cover that by saying it was a typo or that it was a literary tactic to underscore Smoov being such with an anomalistic spelling, but alas. I just goofed. A Hawk metaphor for it could be the Smoov 24ft or Duck dribble-driving; looks awkward but going for it anyway. Ha.

Orthographics aside, as Doc pointed out, you still have yet to really address the #’s issue with regards to ‘Sheed. Simply positing that “any real basketball man” or “Shaq or D Howard could probably hit 30% from 3” is dubious at best.

Since there are no red pens to attack spelling on this blog, looks like ideas are more pertinent for pillory. Since that appears the case, let’s just say I’m more confident with Smoov’s ability to hit a 23 footer than with your illustrated ability to present and sustain an argument.

RISE UP

By terrell barron

August 11, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9730

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Doc, Yeah Big Jailblazers fan…I loved that squad. Unfortunatley they kept running into Big Shot Rob during the playoffs. But it was great while it lasted.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

#21=Top 50,1stBallot, I’m just pokin’ fun lol. I get what you’re saying. Hopefully, smith will be much improved on that front this season.

By BA

August 11, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Ando, May 7, 2008: “…$65-68 million in payroll, next year, which ain’t gonna happen?”

It happened. Lets keep going, shall we?

January 17, 2008: “we may, or may not, capture the eight seed (I’m going with missing it by a game or two…”

Wrong. Probably shouldn’t have “gone” with that prediction!

Next (from the same post): “we are unlikely to make an impactful trade.”

Except…they DID make an impactful trade.

After the Hawks game 2 loss to Boston, you could be found gloating on April 26, 2008 about the free pretzels and beer that your boy Jhan would buy you when the Hawks lost game three by a “double digit deficit”, and that game four would be the series “finale”. I don’t exactly remember it happening that way. Do you?

The archives won’t let me go back to the Horford draft, but then, a couple of months ago someone else exposed you by linking to that particular post anyway. Why repeat a prior example of you being wrong when I can come up with FOUR other examples of how wrong you are on a consistant basis, about a variety of subjects?

The frontline of Horford/Smith/Williams took the Hawks to the playoffs for the first time in close to a decade, and took the Celtics (is there any debate that Boston was the best in the league last season?) to seven games in said playoffs.

That’s not successfully competing?

Tell us, the “great unwashed masses”, what is your definition of successful competition?

By Kevin Willis

August 11, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

SEKOU nice information, thanks. I personally would love to see Shaun Livingston in a Hawks uniform. I’m curious to see how he’s recovered from that catastropic injury. I think a year off the bench for him would do him well. Then we can see what he has left and possibly sign him longer when Bibby leaves, a no risk gamble for the hawks. Elson would be good I guess, for rebounding and toughness alone, I hope that if we don’t get him we get something similiar to bang and pick up some fouls and gifts from the Horford, JJ, Smith double teams. Something like say 7 points 5 boards a game.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

LMFAO BA!!!!!!!! Hhehehe so that’s what you’ve been up too this whole time ha! I love it.

Ando, Would you like to Cross Examine BA’s statements????

TB, I Sooo posted that yesterday Ha! Here’s the video, Smoove lookes a lot bigger. He’s gotta get rid of that studder though. Not good from a marketing standpoint.

By ray

August 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Samuel, you must have been damn good at dodgeball in grade school…

Well, I guess that settles it. If you say the man can’t shoot (with your fully-trained expert eye…or are they both fully trained?) past 15-20 feet then I guess he just can’t…EVER. It’s not possible. You might want to call him tonight after dinner and tell him that. Better yet, soften the blow by calling up and chattin’ it over tea and crumpets with ya boy Sund. Heh…

Actually, I cringe because his shot isn’t developed fully yet. Good thing he’s got more confidence in his shot than I do or we’d be calling him Marvin the 2nd.

Of course other teams guard ‘Sheed on the perimeter. Where else can he be found? LOL!

As for the numbers…well we know statistics don’t tell the whole story. But they do tell a part of it, and you can’t argue with that part. Rasheed’s skill level is above Josh’s, no question. The numbers tell you Josh’s production exceeds Rasheed’s. The factors the numbers don’t tell you about are desire and motivation. Josh has both. Rasheed has neither. If he did, the numbers would tell a different story, and we both know it.

#21=top 50, I kind of amend the way I see Marvin. It’s not a series of “can’t”s, its’ more like “don’t”s. And like you, I hope to see serious differences in that this year.

ksgbfinst, you hit the nail on the head…

By Ken Strickland

August 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

BY#21-I have no problem discussing our disagreements, but I don’t want it to become more than just a discussion, ok. I made a special effort to show I wasn’t saying Marvin was as good as or better than Smoove. I also made it known the comparison was for offensive production only. My point was, if Marvin took as many shots and shot as many FT’s as Smoove, their OFF production would be about the same.

The reason everyone was in favor of resigning Smoove for big money was because of his vast untapped potential more than his production. He’s been a relatively injury free 4yr starter who’s shown progression each yr. Last yr was Marvin’s 3rd yr, 1st as a starter because of a major injury at the beginning of his 2nd yr. While he’s not the athlete Smoove is, he has a lot of potential and a lot of room to grow. Why are so many unwilling to give him the time to become what we hoped he’d be when we drafted him?

Smoove had virtually no OFF gm his 1st couple of yrs, aside from his thundering dunks. Now, he’s an OFF threat and I’m expecting even better OFF production from him this season. I’m also expecting the same from Marvin. Bibby, JJ and Smoove are the focal points of our OFF, which RAY and I agree is little more than ISO and pick and roll, especially in crunch time. Marvin is a 4th option and has to fit in when he can git in, especially in the 4th qtr. For a player that far down on the priority list, 14.8PPG, 5.7RPG and 1.5APG are pretty darn good.

The truth is my friend, the issues between us aren’t about Marvins abilities. They’re about the differences in our confidence in those abilities.

RAY-I’d like to see him take more shots as well. He’s just too proficient as a shooter not to. With a little help from our HC, and an OFF designed to gets him shots, Marvin could make teams think twice about doubling JJ or Bibby.

By BA

August 11, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry, Ariose, Alpha man will be on here eventually with his predictable dissmissive tone for me. Who knows when, though- I think he stays pretty busy (you know, that cumbersome real world).

For the record, I’d gladly take on Livingston, because while I don’t think they’ll trade Bibby, I wonder if he’ll return when his deal is up.

By Jim Burn is Roaming

August 11, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Ken, where are you starting Josh/Marvin/Horford? Are you going to have Horford playing center again?

By ray

August 11, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Ha Ha! Ooohhh, Sam, you got pegged by #21=top 50….come on, dodgeball champion…

By doc

August 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

KGB exactly and a point many of us have made here before about josh. you know that it is one of those opinions that when you look at the numbers you realize the kid didnt just stand out there and gun it up as a first choice. folks tend to stick by their opinions and beliefs even when confronted with facts but you just have to live with it. beautiful point! it is also about the same numbers that sheed put up in his first few years before he began to shoot more often and increase his efficiency while doing it. numbers dont lie, people do.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Ahhh, The old Duck and Run tactic. Classic Dodgeball at it’s finest…….

By ray

August 11, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Yeah, kgbsfinst makes a good point, there. You know what’s even more interesting about that? It was often JJ that was tossing Smoove the ball as he stood near or beyond the arc….

Well, yes Jim, if we don’t have somebody good enough to supplant somebody else in the starting lineup, that’s the way it will likely look.

By doc

August 11, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

gosh aint it fun to talk basketball intellectually or not, all are welcome right?

just no speel check because my computer might fail me have a hard enough time just typing the words up here e. e. cummings style to worry about the blog speel police or is it squeel?

By HHoops

August 11, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Opinions Wanted

Assuming that the Hawks do not trade for any front line players between now and Dec. 15, which one of the following choices is their best line up:

By kgbsfinst

August 11, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Good point ray And to take it a step further, its was probably an ISO play for JJ and he got double teamed, called by…you know it…WOODY!lol

I really hope the only comparison between Sheed and Smooth is their three point attempts. Sheed is a very good player who has had a very good career, but I have a lot higher hopes(with a lot less T’s) for Josh.

By ray

August 11, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Naughty guys, gangin’ up on ol’ Sam like that….lol

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

HHoops- 1,3, and 6 at any given time during the game.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 11, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Well now that the Josh drama is over, it appears we don’t have much to talk about for the rest of the summer. So I was playing around with the ESPN trade machine, and I came up with this idea…

For those of you too lazy to click on the link, here it goes: We trade Mike Bibby to the Cavs for Anderson Varejao, Joe Smith, and Damon Jones, all of whose contracts are expiring, possibly with Cleveland throwing in a draft pick too.

Why it works for us: With the A.S.S. likely unwilling to add more salary, we increase our bench depth and pick up two big bodies to improve our interior defense and rebounding, providing us the flexibility to move Horford away from center for extended periods of time, and adding a 3-point shooter who can come off the bench and stretch the defense. Although we would lose our best point guard, it opens up more playing time for Acie Law while providing two experienced veterans to back him up, even though one of those veterans is Speedy Claxton. We also don’t add any long-term salary commitments by doing this.

Why it works for the Cavs: They need an upgrade at point guard, and Bibby’s a guy they have targeted before and for whom LeBron has openly campaigned in the past. Bibby may not be the pure facilitator they need but he’s certainly an upgrade over Boobie Gibson and Delonte West. The trade may leave them a little thin up front but if Ben Wallace can bounce back to his previous form they still have him and Big Z in the middle.

Don’t know if anyone else has ever mentioned this trade possibility on this blog before but I think it would work for us, since it’s really unlikely that Bibby is a long-term solution here.

By ray

August 11, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Yeah, ‘Sheed has had a good career. Hardly Hall of Fame, though..

By Jim Burn is Roaming

August 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Hoops this is what is so perplexing. For the longest, many had been and still are screaming that we need a legit BIG, so that Horford can move to the 4. (R. Morris was supposed to do this) However, this poses the biggest dilema for the Hawks, unless you keep Horford at the 5. Depending on who we are playing, I like 3-Bibby/JJ/Mo Evans/Smoove/Horford. This line up is dangerous outside shooters and beasts down low.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 11, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

HHoops, in response to your question, I’m always of the opinion that your five best players should be your starting lineup. I would go with Bibby/JJ/Marvin/Josh/Horford. Morris has proven nothing, and Zaza has only proven that he’s inconsistent and flops too much. Evans is a bench guy, and as much as I like Acie he’s not gonna start ahead of Bibby. We may be undersized with that lineup but I’d go with that any day over putting a big guy of questionable skills in the starting lineup.

By MannyT

August 11, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

ray Several folks on this blog seem to put Morris in a starting line up for the Hawks as if he had some transformers like evolution since April. (At least 3 references to him starting in this blog. More in past blogs. Give me a break. I’ll even pull a Samuel call here—don’t need the stats to know that Morris got almost no run on a team that won 23 games last year. David Lee was the young stud there, RandMo was not a factor.

Yes, he is a tall, big dude that commands minimal cap space. Priest Lauderdale was taller and bigger and I won’t be calling him up to fill a roster spot. As Morris continues to work on this game, I can see him contributing in spot duty down the road. I don’t see him starting unless the Hawks are in a world of trouble.

Speaking of Zaza, how about we give him a chance to grow from his playoff momentum. After all, he’s only 24. There is still some upside in his game, he got tough when we needed it…and he’s got a nice website.

Not an acronym, but a blog appropriate definition: Soft Blogging — plays hard full court D on grammar. Plays soft zone on topics and facts. Unwilling to take shot/opinion under pressure.

82 days until the regular season home opener vs Philly. The day that Josh gets to make Elton pay for taking his big paycheck ;-)

Will you be there to transform the playoff panic into a fall fever?

Time to take our good CRAP to another level?

hmmmmmm

By doc

August 11, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

jim i dont know who told you that morris was supposed to come in and move horford and be the numero uno 5 for this squad or you made it up but how in the world could you fall for it if you or they did. the dude is a project and may be the fourth guy on the list to get into games behind horford, zaza and solo. it is just unimaginable to think morris is capable of that big of a move, think project and you might come back into the same territory as the rest of us if you want otherwise stay out there in never never land.

horford is the five for most minutes and josh is the four for most minutes simple and they are happy about it. there are few folks that expect or reason otherwise here or in the national media. is there a potential matchup or two or three problem? sure is, but it is what it is. if we dont pay up and get the kwayme’s good enough for the pistons or elson’s of the world and get bottom dollar fit ins we deal with it is that plain and simple enough for you?

the line up you suggest is the same one we finished with last year except you sub in evans for chills and leave marvin on the bench. it is the one most seem to like to finish games as marvin is yet to show a three shot and a lock down style on defense. if evans gives us what is advertised sund looks good, if not woody looks bad.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Hahaha Soft Bloggoing lol…..The dodgeball game is still in effect I see heh.

We should all be there to take the good CRAP to another level. Elton will get OWNED.

Man it that’s how they play, then those Euro guys have big gahones. Couldn’t happen in the NBA. The coach would get fired. Good Euro CRAP.

Nice Team USA Aricle

By Hoops

August 11, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Najeh Davenpoop

I really like your trade. Loosing Bibby before we give him a chance to play an entire season bothers me, but I understand that this is an opportunity to get something from him instead of seeing him walk when the season is over. One thing, I believe there is a 30 M limit on trades. I may be wrong. This deal would be worth $30,263,666.00. Manny T would know.

By ray

August 11, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Manny, I agree. And the Priest Lauderdale referrence is funny, but accurate. I saw him in person. Big guy, but softer than Sam’s Euros. Ridiculous. As I’ve been saying, I hope that Morris becomes so much more than adverstised. After all, his only advertisements are what’s killing him right now (and why he landed here on minimal salary).

Jim, there’s nothing perplexing about it. We know we need a legit big….still. Hence the “trade Marvin” comments that have gone on for the last two years. Some of us have even conceded that if we are able to get a bonafide star center via trade of another one of our promising young forwards, that would be the thing to do (though it’s a touchy subject to be sure).

But, that’s not the pieces we have right now. So, we talk about what we’ve got, which is what we had last year for the most part.

I don’t know if Evans is a guy who can take Marvin’s spot in the starting lineup. In fact, if he does, isn’t it better to slide him in at the 2 and JJ to the 3 (there is a matter of size and strength to consider here)? However, I see this as a lineup we can use when it is advantageous to go smaller than usual.

By MannyT

August 11, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Najeh,doc Thanks for putting some sanity out there regarding RandMo!

As for that trade, it would have been more interesting before we picked up RandMo. Too many bigs looking for PT. Also we would need a PG back. Unfortunately, Delonte West is a RFA so you cannot put him in a deal unless it’s a sign & trade. Then you get into the whole BYC thing. Thus, me thinks this is way more work than the ASG is willing to do.

Now if you can put the deal together and leave it on Sund’s desk with Danny Ferry’s signature on it…maybe. ;-)

I’m not worried about starters. I think our game finishers will be more situational this year if Woody will actually play more bench. Too early for me to pick a firm final 5, but I can see using the starters.If we need a defensive stop put in Evans and maybe Mario if we need to lock down multiple players. (They would replace Bibby and Marvin in that order.)

BWAF

By doc

August 11, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

oh too funny manny t regarding how our gm “works”.

“my boy rick” has become “go out and get me an offer sund”.

here let me try, goagmaos or gogmos.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 11, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Well I tried lol. Stupid thing is rigged. The Timberwolves would defenetly go for that deal ;-)

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 11, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

I actually wouldnt mind seeing Joe taken out first in whatever the new rotation will be. Between Bibby, Smoov, and Duck the team should still be able to put a couple points on the board- contingent on Smoov and Duck’s games continuing to develop. I know I’m tired of seeing Joe sit the final two minutes then the first two minutes- a sign of more 41+ min games. That way Law comes in for Bibby, and Joe comes back for Duck- allowing Joe to play offense.

The key to player rotation will be development IMO. If the other players are better, then we can roll in more and rest more strategically. This is all assuming the Woody has developed his coaching technique of course….

RISE UP

By terrell barron

August 11, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

Good for you Kevin Willis. I apologize.

By terrell barron

August 11, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

Hey Manny, Wilson Chandler did’nt get any run either, and Dantoni plans on using him ALOT this year. He also said it was unbeleivable that Chandler played so little last year. Maybe, just maybe, it coulda been the poor COACHING STAFF that’s to blame for Morris not getting any time, not his performance? Or it coulda been the log jam at the 4 and the 5 positions? Do the names Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Jared Jeffries, David Lee, Zack Randolph, and Malik Allen ring a bell? How in the hell could ANYONE get any minutes on that team, much less a guy who came from the STRAIGHT FROM THE NCAA TOURNAMENT?

By MannyT

August 11, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

terrell RandMo came straight from the tournament in 2007. He had a full season to get into the fold. Because he showed up in the Spring of 2007, he got a head start on being a rookie. That’s why he has 2 years of NBA experience.

He did beat out Jerome James for time. I guess part of that had to do with James’s difficulty with 7 letters. I AM FULL or was it 9 letters REHAB KNEE

By the way the underutilized Wilson Chandler found 685 minutes last season. RandMo found 181. He’s played 225 minutes in his NBA career. Mario West has more NBA minutes than RandMo!

Even if his coaching sucked in NY, he still needs time to develop. (Are you implying that he will get good coaching here as a guy with little pro experience?) We cannot sprinkle some water on him and viola—instant NBA starting center.

I am NOT saying he is a bad player. I am saying it is unrealistic (and unfair to him) to pencil him in as a starter given his lack of experience and success at this level. He might be able to grow into the player many folks want him to be, but growth takes time, not a summer at home.

That’s my 2 cents worth…upon closer inspection, they look like Euro pennies, so it may count as three!

What you got!

BWAF

By doc

August 11, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

uhh terrell you are talking about a coach who is not getting bigs into games even with a short bench. didnt shels, rens and solo fester a bit last year? i know it is a different season and gogmos has had his talk with woody. let it happen before we assume it will happen.

By terrell barron

August 11, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

First off, Woody is on a two year leash. Secondly, Sund brought in Evans and Morris to PLAY. So trust me, they’ll BOTH get major minutes. Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

By terrell barron

August 11, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

And Doc, if he does’nt play Morris and Evans like he should, that’s just a slap in the face to the new GM. I cant see Woody doing that. Not with his azz on the line.

By terrell barron

August 11, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Mario has more NBA minutes than Randolph Morris. Not after this year. Bank on it!

By MannyT

August 11, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Be it Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles, you will see him on the floor a similar amount.

From Sekou’s article on the Morris signing.

After all, it was Morris that made the first move, contacting the Hawks about the possibility of joining them. And it was Morris that suggested he take part in the minicamp so the team could get a better look at him.

Once again, the SUPPLE card was played. Morris did everything except write the contract for Sund. This does not scream of a “You better play him or else” situation. Evans could be more of what you described.

Don’t make this about Woody. I could redo my rant of his 2007-08 running team, in the final season of his contract, but that would take us off the main point. It’s about the reality of where RandMo fits in this team.

He gets Solomon’s minutes, about 5-6 a game on average, which will double his NBA court time.

BWAF

By new jersey faithful

August 11, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

What does it matter….Woody is still the coach!!!!!

By ray

August 11, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Very good point, Manny. That says it all…

terrell, consider this: Woody beat Billy in more ways than one. First, he managed to keep his job, despite Billy trying to fire him. Second, he got a two year contract. Billy was offered a one year contract. I don’t know who in the front office (other than Gearon) has the man-love for Woody, but I wouldn’t bet against it just yet…On the flip side, you never know.

Randolph Morris was a victim in more ways than one in New York. Maybe he’ll turn out to be a semi-precious stone in the rough. I Damn sure hope so. But consider the quotes that Manny brought up. Nobody was looking for him. We might get lucky….but to be honest? I’m more excited about Othello Hunter. He seems motivated. I really do hope that Morris is at least as motivated. Can say this much though: dude wanted a job. Let’s see if he can earn the right to put somebody else on the pine…

#21=Top 50,1stBallot, that’s the familiar refrain. “Woody is the Coach.” I can’t share Samuel’s enthusiasm in that regard, but one can only hope that Woody either “gets it” or is quickly replaced. That’s as optimistic as I can be right now. One thing has to change for certain: stop treating Horford like a garbage man and start running the offense through him every now and again. It could only help..

By terrell barron

August 11, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

You guys act like something is wrong woth Randolph contacting Sund. Thats the equivalent of a regular guy handing out his resume. I’m sure he had to show some SKILLS on the court before he was hired. Dont you think?

By Ken Strickland

August 11, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

JIM BURN-you keep the same starting lineup as last yr. The issue with Horford isn’t whether he can play the 5, but how will he be required to play the 5. Having the ability to pressure the ball and make it difficult to make entry passes will make a tremendous difference in our frontline DEF. A healthy Bibby, Speedy, andAcie will help our interior DEF.

We need to run, run, run. That’s the biggest difference our frontline has over other frontlines. Tired teams, in catchup mode, don’t usually pound it inside consistently. While our starting lineup isn’t the NBA’s best or biggest, it’s certainly one of it’s most exciting and athletic. We have to hope Woodson allows them to consistently utilize those advantages.

By doc

August 11, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

really good article on skip carey a former hawks radio broadcaster well known as the voice of the braves written by terence moore for anyone living in a vacuum. it gave me pause to give gratitude to the fact in my lifetime i have had lewis grizzard and skip carey to entertain me and probably support my own demonic sense of irony and humor. i will miss him dearly but the vignette on an attempt by klesko to get to a ball and skip’s description of it is worth the effort to read what terence reported today. wow, we were really gifted to have some fine writers come through this town and i might say to have sekou and o’brien as beat guys for the teams i enjoy the most.

terrell i’ll put it to you this way regarding morris every fat a* chick doesnt look like ines’ junk. dont make it out for more than it is worth, most dont buy it. second way to look at it is if you have a daughter, do you want her to get involved with someone with promise or a proven commodity. morris is still on the promise side for me to even begin to say he is still in the same league as say howard because he played with him in high school. i played guitar with gram parsons and i assure you i aint famous and i never slept with emmy lou harris much less die in her arms.

his greatest skill was holding a pen to a piece of paper and signing it to the minimum salary.

By terrell barron

August 11, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

I never said he was on the same level as Howard. I only said that about the highschool thing to prove that the kid could play, IF MOTIVATED. He should have motivation this year, playing in his hometown. Dont get it twisted Doc. And if I had a daughter, I would’nt want her dating a PROVEN COMMODITY. WTF? He’s probably been around the block a few times too many. I’ll take the guy with PROMISE. Thank you!

By VIP

August 11, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

Just got word (according to yahoo sports) that the Hawks have signed G Thomas Gardner (Mizzou) and undrafted rookie F Othello Hunter (Ohio State)

By MannyT

August 11, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

I applaud RandMo’s willingness to go after a job. I would contrast his efforts with those of other free agents that will start. When Josh went to Philly & LA, he wasn’t working out against other players for evaluation prior to an offer. Elton Brand, Corey Magette, & Baron Davis did not audition before getting offers from their new teams. Starters and established players don’t have to do that. I doubt Mo Evans had to do it as a 6th man. Guys toward the end of the bench audition.

If you have a strong reputation in your line of work, you don’t need a resume to get a job. When people know who you are and like your work, they come after you.

Take the business of acting. The stars normally do not audition for roles. They are approached for roles. It is the smaller roles that have people audition. Some of those same folks may get Oscars down the road, but until they break through, they audition and go to casting calls. RandMo might be on his way to an Oscar, but he’s not close yet.

BWAF

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

yup, The Hawks signed Hunter and Gardner

Sekou, Whats tha word?

By richie boy

August 12, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

AERIOS,

Thankyou for the information. I’ll assume both guys were signed for veterans camp, and not necessarily for the season. Either way, it was suspected that some of the summer league players would be signed. Looks like we have two of the better ones from our summer league. At least Gardner has real time action within the league. I think he played for the bulls last year or something.

MANNY,

Randolph Morris was not being “approached” by any teams. I think that just about tells the story right there. His New York Knicks stint did not do anything to help, but then playing for Isaiah Thomas and not being one of his favorites probably hurt, too. I wonder if playing for Mike Woodson will be any better? I still have to harken back to the report by Sekou that Kwame Brown was drawing the most raves in their work out. I wonder what that meant in detail?

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

Here’s a better article with quotes from sund/staff

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this

I think that takes the roster to 13……14 if we retain Chills’ NBA rights. The max for the regular season is 15 so that leaves one or two spots left. Mario West, Jeremy Richardson, and Luke Jackson are left……Sund migh sign another big……I hope he doesn’t though. There’s not another big with good upside IMHO or whose not washed up.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

I really liked Johnny’s game. If he had played for the hawks he’d still be in the NBA.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this

Team USA Playing right now. I fell asleep and Missed the spain Vs. China game last night. I heard Spain needed overtime to knock off china.

By Melvin

August 12, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Ariose, I think Jamaal Maglorie (misp) is a serviceable and veteran big that could help us. However, all this could have been avoid if Sund would have trade into the 2nd round to draft DeAndre Jordan. Mark my words, alot of teams missed on this kid. But it’s a bigger miss for the Hawks being that they didn’t have a draft pick and need serviceable bigs. We could have signed David Andersen and drafted Jordan which is a better Inside/Outside combination than ZaZa and Morris. Oh well, time will tell but I think I prefer BK back already….

By Zach

August 12, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Othello Hunter, think Udonis Haslam… Thomas Gardner, think Ricky Davis…

By Ken Strickland

August 12, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

We have to look at RMorris’ situation with the Knicks as apposed to what he will have here. With the Knicks, he was buried behind a bunch of overpaid, unmotivated, selfish, disgruntled vets. They weren’t even willing to motivate themselves to perform up to their potential. How much motivation do you think they were interested in providing for young players like Morris?

With the Hawks, he’ll be with still developing young players like himself with whom he can immulate and identify with. He will be on a team that really wants to get better and has set making the playoffs again as their #1 priority. Do you really think that was the goal, attitude and focus of the Knicks players, considering most of them wanted out?

Look at the negative effect Woodson’s attitude and approach had on both Salim and Acie. Morris had to deal with HC IThomas, plus the sulking, rebelling attitudes and behavior of players like Randoulph, Starbury, Curry,etc. These players were filled with the me first attitudes, both on and off the court.

I see nothing but positive influences for RMorris, both on and off the court. It will be up to him to capitalize on those influences and make an impact when given his chance to perform. After all, there are numerous examples of players, that were underachievers, or unable to make it in the NBA initially, becoming excellent NBA players when placed in the right situation(BWallace, CBillups, RBell, LBarbosa, BBowen, DRodman, BDiaw etc), and to a certain extent, SNash and Rip Hamilton.

Let’s face it, we haven’t had much luck signing healthy, productive FA’s. This time, we could end up with a steal, and at a position of definite need.

By terrell barron

August 12, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Exactly Manny, exactly. Ridiculing Morris for auditioning is just crazy.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Magloiore???……………….mah……..I don’t like him. He always looks slow, out of shape, and Uncoordinated.

Tellem ken….Hopefully Sund will force woody to do the right thing this season.

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

WOW

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Bush gets OWNED Russia Vs. Rep. Georgia

By Ariose Sir Links A Lot (S.F)

August 12, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

The only footage of Thomas Gardner I could Find.

By The Truth

August 12, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Ken

The problem I have with Morris has more to do with his contract than him as a player. The Hawks signed him short term. That is just the amount of time for him to train, develope and audition for a mega contract with another team if he turn out to be that diamond in the rough. A true steal would be if the Hawks had tired him up longer and he turn out to be a gem.

By MannyT

August 12, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

terrell & Ken You missed the point. I don’t have a problem with Morris as a player to develop. The issue I brought forward was with the folks that jumped him up to a starter. He’s not better than Horford or Smith. You don’t put Marvin on the bench to start RandMo either.

The point about audtioning is that he is not a starter talent. Starters don’t audition in the NBA when they change teams. terrell read what I wrote about auditioning and show me where I am ridiculing Morris.

Here was my initial post in this blog on the matter. Feel free to explain why you disagree. Most of the responses try to turn my he’s not a starter into he’s not worth signing. I think RandMo can contribute, but this team is worse if he has to start.

I am not attacking the player. I am opposing the bloggers who put him in the starting line up (which was listed 3 times in this blog. The only ridicule regarding Morris was about Sund’s lack of visible effort to make something happen. Aside from signing Evans right after he blew it with Chills, Sund’s approach seems extremely low key. Not that low key is bad, but when it comes with very tough negotiating, he does not seem to be winning allies or respect that will be useful when he has to negotiate future key contracts.

That’s why doc uses gogmos and I use SUPPLE as in Sund’s Undercover Passivity Populates Lower Expectations

By kgbsfinst

August 12, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

I think a question that really hasnt been raised yet is whether we should keep JChills contract and pay the $4-$5 million a year. I dont think we should. I would love to see him in a Hawks uni again, but I would rather use that money to help us win now.

By doc

August 12, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

manny t it is hard sometimes isnt it? it is hard to call it like it is and not about what it might be. the difference between living in the now and either in the past or the furture is a challenge. no one is detracting on morris just not setting impossible expectations. right now the three guys on the depth chart and ultimately woody will have more to say about it than me, you, ken, terrell or burning man.

interesting sund interview on 680 with sund yesterday and reprised this am.

essentially he confirmed two things that ando and folks that argued along a similar veinwere lamblasted for; that they were leary (best way i can put it) of investing a huge amount in to a team that had ONLY proven itself to wn 37 games though they had a NICE run in the playoffs ….. er my take not proven winners yet. two, he is of the mindset that he would like to sign rfa’s if it makes economic and competitive sense, again a reality accepted by the most sane here. finally, and an interesting take was that he feels the hawks gave chill the” best nba offer” and that is what they want to do. it is have guys go out and bring back offers then pay them a little more so they know they are wanted. the suppple way or gogmos way of salary negotiation. he stated “love” is all about getting the money first. that is my best to not place my bias on it or my spin without stating it as so.

my spin on the match stuff is only chills and josh know if he is true to his word as will the former team mates. if he isnt truthful then my take is he will fail if he continues much longer along those lines in today’s free market place. it will be sad if he will be unable to adjust to the fact relationships might mean more in the long run than he thinks and folks might take less if they know they are respected and wanted and not treated as a commodity.

By MannyT

August 12, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Ariose That Spanish Team thing was in Monday’s TrueHoop Olybullets.

Article also shows that the Spanish seem to have some issues with non Spanish athletes.

Those folks have issues.

By ray

August 12, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Manny, exactly. We hope for better, but there’s nothing in the advertisement that says the product is that good.

The Truth, you bring up a good point.

So…where’s our boy Realist? Not heard much out of him since J-Smoove was re-signed. Any more words of non-conventional wisdom from camp 2? It’s okay to join the party….really!

Ariose, whether or not Sund can force Woody to do anything will depend on whether or not Gearon and crew allow him to be the boss that he’s supposed to be. Remember, Billy recognized that things were going south, but wasn’t allowed to stop the free-fall. Something to think about….

By doc

August 12, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

kgb, we will keep his rights as it doesnt cost us anything except in pretend dollars against the cap. i imagine we have spent our wad and we will go with the horses we have paid bigger money to, say above 2 mil a year and fill out the roster with bargain basement types and hope they develop into role players that woody can believe in and trust even if they arent the vets that he and jj like to look for when in a pinch. maybe this team needs a traditional team building weekend on the ropes course to get it over the hump in that regard with coaches, players and management all participating.

my take is i think it is the management consensus is to make sure we have a winner before paying anymore to fill it out. i know it is kind of backwards but maybe they only have sooo much to spend. maybe just maybe without degrading anyone, please forgive me basg as it really isnt personal. i know it isnt personal enough that they won offer me tickets that may be more than i want to afford so i am safe there for now.

BA i assure you if you go back and do your research you would have preferred ando drafting players than who did. even as i got a few right, he was on target so much it was spooky. give the guy his cred even if you dont like him. also the first comments are in essence a confirmation f what ando was preaching before hand and was shouted down. again i didnt spin the remarks and they are quite sane to approach it that way, again folks have a hard time not understanding 37wins are not special .. just yet. if it goes to 45 it is. promise vs delivery. i pay for the latter seems hawks management does, too.

uh also in addition to the above, sund essentially said they have the rights to chills so it may be a done deal anyway.

By jhan

August 12, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

doc - not sure players will take LESS to stay with their current team. They may be more inclined to stay for the same money.

According to Childress he was offered 5/33 by the Hawks when free agency started. That’s $6.6M per year in a timely fashion. Had they offered him $5.5M and a parade before the season ended last year do you think he would have signed? I don’t.

I do agree that their negotiating tactics stink & they need to be pro-active in the future. But I think you put too much emphasis on the realtionship idea.

That is an easy out for the players when they want to switch teams. “He didn’t treat me like I wanted”, boo-hoo-hoo!

By MannyT

August 12, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

kgbsfinst The Hawks don’t have to pay Chills anything. They just have to put that tender offer on the table for him. It was already done for this season. The question will come up about doing it for next season.

While I am not positive on this one, I do not believe a roster spot has to be held for him. Now if he were to return, you have to create a space, but the team does not have to play with a short bench (unless that is the preference like it was after the Bibby trade.)

doc If the plan was to have them bring back offers and give them a little more, it seems that Smith’s agent would have shown Sund the offer sheet from Memphis. Then Sund would have offered a little more and the deal would have been done without having to match. That would have also allowed the Hawks to have slightly better cash flows by paying a lower rate now, but higher raises later.

Smith signed the offer sheet, so some parts of this puzzle do not fit. I’m sorry I missed the radio interview.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

By rays

August 12, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

New blog is up…

By MannyT

August 12, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

jhan I don’t think players will take hometown discounts just because they want everyone to be nice. You are correct it is about money. But it is also about winning. The teams that players will take a few less dollars from are usually in real position to get a championship. The teams that they want more from are usually cap or cash rich, but low on wins (like Memphis now and the Hawks of the recent past.)

That’s why we have struggled to get notable free agents. If we turn the corner to legit title contenders, players will be willing to come her for less than they would want from struggling teams.

Time for the Dating Game/Contract Negotiations MannyT style…where relationships matter unless you are really hot…like Inez!

Using this model, the problem with the get an offer and come back method is where the Hawks are in the NBA pecking order. It’s like having a choice of the exact same date activities, but one choice has average girl X, and the other is the hot attractive girl Y.

If everything about the date (or contract) is the same, you want to go with girl Y. You don’t want girl X to pull you away at the last minute and say “I’ll do the same.”

Now if girl X came out with the date offer before girl Y was ever in the picture, she might get the date. In the same manner, if the Hawks (girl X) had stepped up with the offer that started with the MLE before everyone else came into play, Chills may have said, this works for me. By sending him out to find that Phoenix and other high caliber teams want him, the girl Y/ASG Hawks just are not as attractive.

With a good relationship, girl Y knows to move quickly to get her date for Saturday night. If she waits until Saturday morning, all the good guys are gone and the ones that will take you up on a last minute match are not that attractive, even to girl Y.

If you know you are not the hot chick, confidence helps, but you cannot have hot chick arrogance, because guys (and free agents) are not going to put up with a bunch of stuff for a losing team unless there are unusual circumstances (a la D Wade & Miami.)

SUPPLE works better if you are a hottie! Take your pick.

By jhan

August 12, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

MannyT - profound as usual.

By ghost

August 12, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Alright, seriously…as long as there is no Bibby distraction over a pre-season contract extension, this team is a legit threat to knock off Orlando for the division title. It’s time to go.

By Astro Joe

August 13, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

MannyT, great analogy. Of course, if you have a big bank, then you can be Oprah and pull as many “free agents” as Beyonce… or Martha Stewart could pull as many as Jessica Biel (to show my diversity). But if you’re a broke Oprah/Martha, then you’re right, you need to move early and promise to please.

As I said a few weeks ago, too bad that Sund doesn’t have a scale for the relative placement of teams like he does with players. If he had categorized teams into specific buckets, he would have placed the Hawks in the “Monday/Wednesday Friday” category. You know, the girl who looks nice on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and looks like a mess the other days. Then, he could have approached Childress with an early offer to please. And maybe, Chill would be wearing a Hawks uniform while his eyes roll happily into the back of his ‘fro.

By darrell starks

August 13, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

ASG MUST LET US NO IF THEY ARE SERIOUSE OR ARE THEY PLAYING GAME WE WILL SEE THIS CITY IS STARVIN FOR CHAMPION SHIP. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

By darrell starks

August 13, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

ANDREA IGUODALA IS ABOUT TO SIGN A SIX YEAR 80MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT WITH THE SIXERS.