Hawks

By Nice

August 6, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

The Hawks should trade Josh Smith for a legitimate defensive starting center and move Al Harford to power forward.

By newkid

August 6, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

You’re only 22! Take the qualifying offer Josh, and forget these chumps.

By Drew Gilchrease

August 6, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

It’s really unfortunate how disjoint the Hawks ownership is. The first week of August and we STILL haven’t gotten a deal done, considering that one of our important pieces has already bolted for the EuroLeague, makes the Josh Smith situation that much more frustrating for Hawks fans. It really makes you wonder:

1) Does the ownership care about winning? 2) Do they care about making their players who are contractually locked up happy (i.e. Joe, Horf, Acie) 3) Do they want a loyal and dedicated fanbase?

If the Spirit can answer ‘yes’ to at least one of these, then they must put their money where their mouth is and RE-SIGN Smith!!! This is a no brainer. So what if he wants $11 mil and they only offered $9, GET THE DEAL DONE, POINT BLANK! I would even be disappointed with a sign-and-trade because Smith is such a young, exciting, raw talent.

If the Hawks blow this, I will still support them, but can we say the same about the rest of the city? ATL fans are tired of mediocre teams run by budget-tight businessmen. Let’s see these guys splurge a little to keep a good player at home! What do the rest of you bloggers think?

By RaJaH

August 6, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Nice, the question is .. who will give the Hawks a legitimate defensive starting center for Josh Smith?

By terrell barron

August 6, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Did’nt Sund say he was going to keep the negotiations in house? How do we know that they are’nt in talks with Joshes people? We dont, do we? Has anyone heard Josh Smith or his agent speak out on the matter? I know I have’nt. So in reality, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON, so let’s stop blaming everybody for this. Whether it be the ASG, Rick sund, or Smoove, for that matter.

By khao$

August 6, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I believe that a segment of the fanbase is in denial…the Hawks doesn’t run their business the way that “normal” sports teams do. There is no other way to spin it. You know the old saying, “where there is smoke, there is fire.” Everybody and their mama comments on how the Hawks have a dysfunctional ownership group, lack of financial resources, a mediocre coach, and pieces that don’t fit. Whether is ESPN, CNNSI, FOXSports, or implied through our very own Sekou Smith, people know that this team has a backwards approach at handling things. Of course, by nature of their dysfunctional culture, some rumors that can’t be substantiated will surface, by virtue that the simpliest way to describe the issues surrounding this team would be “Belkin nixed the trade” or “Smith doesn’t get along with Woodson.” However, most of those rumors would go away if business was handled correctly by our ownership and front office.

Let’s get a few things out of the way. Yes, the Hawks were correct in not giving Childress the same contract that Greece offered. That wasn’t the issue. The issue was how the ASG handled the negotiations (no face to face meeting with Childress and lack of communication).

Yes, the Hawks are within their right to try to offer Smith the lowest contract possible. However, from a PR standpoint, when you sold your fanbase on rebuilding in 04, drafted a home grown talent,made him a building block, publically state you’re going to resign him and say you will make that a top priority, you’re not handling business (especially when guys with similar talents/stats like Deng, Biendrens, Ellis, Okafur, Bogut, and soon Iggy have signed and set the market).

Point is, we can blame Sekou all day and night for not bringing updates. However, when there is nothing to update, due to the slow moving culture that exist within the ASG, due in large part to litigation, lack of liquid financial resources (reportedly), and and inept management, we can’t blame the beat writer. I’d suggest many of us need a reality check…the Hawks created this mess and the fanbase is the biggest loser in this mess. Smith will get paid, the owners will remain rich, and we’ll continue to beg for a winner.

By doc

August 6, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

sad to say the acrimony within this blog probably a reflection of the real acrimony of the real participants as they continue to posture. what smith wants is a drop in comparison to what labron is asking today to become an international star. again hawks management better not push too many buttons or find a situation they can work a trade or end up with their hands empty once again. come on BASG protect our brand somehow someway. it might be simpler just to say we have a budget and this is why instead of trying to fool folks. the ex-white house spinmeister now working for the packers might want to send his card to the basg as it may be his next job if smith gets away.

By terrell barron

August 6, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

And Sekou, get over Chills already. lol! He bolted for the almighty $ man. I cant blame him for that. But I dont blame the ASG for that one either.

By Nice

August 6, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Defense and the ability to effectively score in the half court will enable championships. Pure athleticism may get you to the playoffs. The hawks are a bunch of good athelets playing out of position. Josh Smith is not Kevin Garnet

By Sekou K. Smith

August 6, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

terrell baron,

We’re playing a semantics game again basically. Conversations and negotiations are two very different things.

But you are right, neither side has gone public with the venom (if there is any, smart money says dude isn’t pleased about the way the process is going but he’s not going off about it and demanding trades or anything like you’ve seen elsewhere). And that means there’s always a glimmer of hope if it hasn’t gotten to that point.

And if it was as easy as Nice makes it sound, don’t you think something would have been done by now?

The ironic part of this whole summer is that restricted free agency was designed to help a team keep its own players.

Crazy.

By terrell barron

August 6, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Shannon Brown signed with the Bobcats. Darn, I wanted him.

By doc

August 6, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

again terrell, what do you want me to say and i will repeat it for you if that is what you want from a blog, that is to hear yourself over and over? heh heh, isnt that the definition of narcissism to look into every situation to see the comfy self reflection of your pretty self?

By Mike

August 6, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

SEKOU,

What about non-Josh business? Any word yet on Salim, Othello Hunter, or generally how the rest of the roster will be filled out?

By CB

August 6, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Well it looks to me like the Packers org. make be able to give ASG a run at the worst run “professional” org in America

By B.A.ToDa

August 6, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

It sucks but I do handle the truth that the Hawks Organization is at the bottom of NBA if not the worse run franchise in the NBA. It’s the truth but it sucks, and it hurts. We continue to try and have faith in our franchise only for the “truth” to hurt us again. I’m still a die-hard Hawks fan, regardless of what happen at the end of this off-season. Does that mean i’ll be at a couple of Hawks game this season?…I doubt it. I didn’t check that schedule out, but is that the only National TV game we gettin this entire season? I was thinking we were about to get that Golden State treatment this coming yr.

This your boy ToDa, good looking on the new blog Sekou. Even if their are no updates, I always expect to hear your view of things!

By Melvin

August 6, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Well said Khao$. Ditto Drew.

By doc

August 6, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

oh khao$ bring it on dude! take that terrell. nope no one to blame if the eyes remain closed. what do they say; hear no evil, see no evil, therefore speak no evil?

By Angry Fan

August 6, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Sorry, Terrell Barron, I will NEVER stop blaming ASG for this mess! They crushed OUR team, right as the “phoenix” began to rise up. I will continue to sound off like a broken record, until some positive changes are made. Translation: PAY JOSH SMITH HIS $$$! That’s step 1.

I just wish I would have delayed lunch a couple of hours. Now that I’ve seen the letters ASG in print, I’m gonna be sick for the rest of the day!!

Hawks fans, MAKE SOME NOISE!!

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 6, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

While waiting for the blog to update- even if for no other reason than to reset the comments counter, I decided to reread T Moore’s column on why re-upping Woody was the “best non-firing in ATL history”. (Dubious, yet predictable from one of the worst non-firings in AJC’s history”). While meandering my way through that tripe I also was reminded that BASG’s reasoning for resigning Woody:

Gearon: “We’ve got a lot of momentum as a franchise right now, and what’s important to us is that we do not disrupt that.

Is anyone else stupified by the shear hypocrisy in that statement? See the thing about momentum is it can move in two directions: forward- resigining the Joshes, replacing Woody with a coach to fit roster personel, actively making moves to improve what is a still maturing roster, communicating with a suddenly charged fan base, etc. Or it can go backward- botching negotiations with the Joshes, hiring a GM with little recent success, resigning a coach who has neither won nor shown much talent for adapting his style to win, acquiring a journeyman to maybe replace your still budding 6th man and a center who was not good enough for the Knicks…. THE KNICKS… Looks like we are merrily rolling along in the direction of the latter than the former. There is a difference in fight up hill than trying to…

RISE UP

By cp

August 6, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Do you know crazy yet sad it would be if Favre was traded to a new team before the Josh situation is handled. I wouldnt be shocked if this team came out the gate struggling with that brutal road trip. It is what it is with this franchise. Whats up with James White? Did he have another work out? I too would like to see the Hunter kid from the summer league get a shot. He could be a pleasant surprise.

By JOE

August 6, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Sekou, Thanks for the update. If the hawks want to give Josh Smith 9 million a year then that would mean they haven’t budged at all since their last offer a year ago. Now I understand why this is taken so long. Is the ASG that broke that they can’t offer anymore money to one of the top 3 Defensive power forwards in the league? If emeka, monte, beidrins, deng, to name a few have received contracts in excess of 9 million a year then what is the problem with Josh Smith getting one as well? I guess we will have to wait and see in another episode of dazed and confused starring the ASG!! Sekou thanks for the update ( finally ) :). If you have any access to Josh Smith please tell him on behalf of all hawks fans that we understand his frustration and to stay strong, and that we WANT him back next year in the Atl regardless of how sorry the ASG Is, and one more thing “Patience Perseverance and a bottle of sweet oil and he shall reach Jerusalem”. Just a little bit of wisdom from my grandfather. Once again thanks sekou. Talk to ya later.

By I.MUS WRITE

August 6, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Some of yall need to lay off Sekou!!! I mean dam, what do you want the guy to report?……. “THERE IS NO NEWS”

I guess some people want a new blog every two days to rehash the nothingness thats been going on since july 1,2008…

Lets see: The ASG are a bunch of penny pinchers. Rick Sund appears to be a sock puppet. Negotiations with smoove are at a stand still….JEZUZ - WE ALREADY KNOW THIS FOR CRYN OUT LOUD.

I believe that if josh doesnt get a suitable offer from the ASG by Sept1, that he will take the QO no matter what happens after the 1st. I cant blame the guy -I almost feel disrespected for him………..

The second leading scorer/rebounder, 1st-shot blocks, to 20 in the league-steals …………. Forget his supposed attitude or the fact that he’s out of control sumtimz——— What is it about his numbers that say he’s not worth 11/12 milli…….

There is nothing, I would take him over Deng,Iggy,Gordon etc….. We just have a cash strapped front office. I swear i could see those idiots offering Kobe or Bron 11 million and not budging if they were here as RFA’s….utterly rediculous

With all that said im pretty sure josh wont be here next year this time…….So lets move on. if we are going to do a S&t I would look into

1.Clippers-Kaman/1st rnd pick -Camby/Al Thornton

2.Portland- J.Pryz/Outlaw

3.Dallas- Diop/Bass

4.NO- Chandler/Pargo

Woah….The article on blacks being banned from Chinese clubs is really surprising. I guess racism exists all over the world. Maybe its China…. I spent years of my life in Asia and i never experienced any of that.

I did get looks- which i could understand being a foot taller that most grown men over there. For the most part every where I went people were friendly and gave excellent service. As for the night life I never went to a club over there where people didnt want us there …… as a matter of fact as soon as you walk in -there are instant groupies -just because u are American Black. Really though Asian guy’s try’n to hang around and mirror your swagg-Asian women who want other things from u that i want speak on….. wow what a difference 5 years make-Sad

By Sekou K. Smith

August 6, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

No word on Salim yet Mike, other than he certainly won’t be back with this team.

Othello Hunter is a guy that turned heads in Salt Lake City and also during the mini-camp.

The rest of the roster depends mostly on what happens with Smith. But Evans and Morris added to the mix you already have should let you know that there aren’t many more roster spots for the taking.

By A.Lebechi

August 6, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

…We’re not gotta get a deal done here… let’s trade Josh Smith and Speedy Claxton to the Pacers for Danny Granger, Rasho Nesterovic, Jamaal Tinsley and a first round pick in one of the next two years and call it a day…

By Melvin

August 6, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

I heard on ESPN a few days ago that the NFL Commissioner will assist the Pittsburg Steelers owners with the sell of their team. Why can’t Stern broker a deal that will resolve this ownership fiasco that’s been lingering over the Hawks Franchise going on 4 yrs now. And yes, February can’t get here fast enough. The Hawks have too many important issues that need to be finalize before then. Like re-signing JOSH SMITH….

By Mike

August 6, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

I thought that Mario West did a good job filling in for Childress last year when he was hurt, doing a lot of the same things (defense, hustle, garbage points). He and Evans combined would be half of what Childress turned down, so I think the Childress stuff is overblown — especially considering his chronic foot problems. Now Smith is another matter….

By Sekou K. Smith

August 6, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

back to Mr. Hunter, Mike (my thoughts got cut off in translation when my cell phone rang), several people with the team in SLC felt like he was a guy that needed to find his way to veteran’s camp to see if what he showed in the Revue would show up with the vets. He could be an interesting prospect.

And don’t forget Jeremy Richarsdson.

By 3-pointer

August 6, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

How did it feel to get scooped on the Josh Childress deal? Did anyone even bother to rap your knuckles?

Sekou, you are not a reporter and the Hawks are not a team. So it’s a good fit.

By BravesFan79

August 6, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Thats why my favorite team is the Rockets!! Even tho im concerned about adding a low character guy in Artest.
Hopefully Mutombo signs on for 1 more year to back up Yao. This is the year for the Rockets! TMAC…. the top playing in the league along with Kobe.
Queen James aint nothing.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 6, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Though it’s been stated on blogs, albeit understated, I dont think BASG is a bunch of penuroius penny-pinchers. It’s “worse” than that. They are just bad businessmen from an NBA ownership standpoint. They have certainly doled out coin before: JJ, Speedy, Bibby’s contract. Stands reason they would do it again. The purported low-ball offer to Chills wasnt because we couldnt pay him, they just either didnt want to or figured they had absolute leverage.

Oops.

Even a crew as outmatched as the BASG has to say that Smoov is at least comparable to Deng, Ellis, et al. The fact these players have signed deals in excess of what BASG is offering to their own product says to me that he is not in their plans for a rebuild- essentially echoing their pre-season offer when his longterm presence on the roster was under review. The emergence of Al has made Smoov expendable. It’s just to BASG’s misfortune that the FA market played out the way it did. No big offer sheets to anyone. The most valueable RFA never had his value set so their was nothing for BASG to “match”.

Oops.

All that said this we may not know where what exactly is going on, but we do know what isn’t happening. The Hawks are not in the process of seriously improving their product (on court and as a brand) from only a few months ago. That inaction in itself speaks volumes- even through a “media blackout”. Net result: Hawks a media joke again.

Oops

After all the continuity, rebuilding plan, commitment lip service BASG can correct their 3 “oops” by doing three other things: Pay up, shut up…

RISE UP

By BravesFan79

August 6, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Thats why my favorite team is the Rockets!! Even tho im concerned about adding a low character guy in Artest.
Hopefully Mutombo signs on for 1 more year to back up Yao. This is the year for the Rockets! TMAC…. the top player in the league along with Kobe!
Queen James aint nothing.

By B.A.ToDa

August 6, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Gearon: “We’ve got a lot of momentum as a franchise right now, and what’s important to us is that we do not disrupt that.”

Quote of the summer right there. I know it sucks that their is absolutely NO news to report right now. That’s rediculous, even Iguodala is back in talks about his contract. I’ve heard he’s close to $70million. I wish we could atleast know if the ASG plans on actually getting some kind of deal done with him this month.

By doc

August 6, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

3-pointer, sekou wasnt scooped and even the national media acknowledged it as we acknowledge your own error.

By Ramon

August 6, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

The Hawks organization is run more like K-Mart in the early century (terrible). Sekou, I understand that there aren’t much to report on the Hawks at the moment. But I would be very interested in to read some about Steve Smith, Dominique, and others around the organization and what their thoughts are of the ENTIRE summer, not just the Hawks.

Also, Sekou have you questioned any of the players and staff around the league about China’s ban.

Honestly, the way I see it, I would much rather hear about things like that (or even how much fun Horford had on the practice squad), instead of reading the sparring matches on this blog that resembles Vick’s indictment on Wyche’s blogs. But I love your work.

By RAD

August 6, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

It is the mindset of the ASG that they have Josh Smith right where they want him. There is no team out there that has enough salary cap space left to make Josh a legitimate offer. 9 million dollars a year sounds like a good offer, however; the ASG has once again rolled the dice and came out looking stupid. They thought by sitting back and waiting on other teams to sign players such as Deng, Ellis, and Okafor that it would prove to Josh that he was asking for too much money. Guess what ASG .. it once again backfired on you! So now you think Josh Smith is out of options. You also thought that Josh Childress was out of options.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 6, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Invariably when GM takes over a roster, he will want to stamp it with his own markings. Is there any sense that Sund is the one stalling/sticking to his guns/low-balling/obfuscating negotiations to force Smoov to be unhappy to the point where he’d want to move him (in a trade or before February)? In otherwords, does Sund have a particular vision for what a competitive, successful NBA roster should look like- assuming Joe and Al are the cornerstones? When someone makes a footprint before it settles to get an image, dust is bound to…

RISE UP

By DAP01

August 6, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Are there any rumors on who may fill out the roster?

Any rumors, even bad rumors, out there about other roster moves?

I feel your pain….

By B.A.ToDa

August 6, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

I don’t think we would of matched an offer to Smith if he ever was offered one. Just seems like the Hawks have no plan of use with Smith in this team’s future. Seriously. We probably wouldn’t of matched an offer after the 7days. That was just all talk.

By terrell barron

August 6, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Imus, Pargo is UNRESTRICTED. You can count that one out. btw, he’s in talks with the Spurs.

By Sautee

August 6, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

doc

From your earlier post in the former blog:

ultimately, when the divide drops to race, religion, politic and nationality and we can see injustice for what it is in ALL cases and truly feel the compassion to do something about it then mankind will be better off and no sooner; ALL of mankind. i know it is a very simple prayer.

As my friend Kemp Jones says in his excellent song “Top Ten Stories”:

“Violence is violence is violence.”

It matters not as much Why, but what can be done. And you are absolutely correct that injustice will have to be seen with bigger and wider eyes in order to act with the compassion necessary to the task.

peace

By Mike

August 6, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

SEKOU,

Any word on Mike Bibby’s health? I don’t think he ever was healthy last year. The prospect of having him healthy and there from the start of camp is some reason for optimism (at least if they get JS back).

Also, any word at all on an extension for Marvin? Are they even talking about that? To me he is a much harder case than Smith or Childress. Smith is clearly worth 11-12 while Childress is a mid-level guy. But Marvin? Who knows, especially since he is still improving, if slowly.

By richbrave

August 6, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

ray:

You are betwix and between, but as high as ever in my book. I’m not one to belittle anyone else’s conceits.

By nique

August 6, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

sekou it’s disappointing that you haven’t delved into (i) why the hawks lost childress for nothing plus a salary cap hit, considering there were legit trade offers out there and (ii) who is running the show with personnel moves (sund or gearon) and therefore who is to blame for chills and smith. there have got to be some disgruntled hawks employees who are disgusted by their employer’s operations who would like to talk.

By B.A.ToDa

August 6, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Sund has a good resume… at all. So I wouldn’t be too thrilled about his “vision” until he makes some moves.

By KingoftheRing

August 6, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Terrell, you just stole my response! If things were so dreary in the J-Smoove camp I’d have to believe that we’d have heard something along the lines that we heard from Chillz’ camp before he bolted. Everyone is impatient as hell but we shouldn’t freak out ‘til we hear something on either side.

By KingoftheRing

August 6, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Terrell, you just stole my response! If things were so dreary in the J-Smoove camp I’d have to believe that we’d have heard something along the lines that we heard from Chillz’ camp before he bolted. Everyone is impatient as hell but we shouldn’t freak out ‘til we hear something on either side.

By 3-pointer

August 6, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Doc,

My bad. If I am wrong I stand corrected and my other remarks should be disregarded. Thank you for pointing out.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 6, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Co-sign Ramon… I can handle the truth that there’s been no real change with the situation because the A.S.S., but I’d like to hear what others close to and in the Hawks organization have to say about it. Dominique’s not gonna give any earth-shattering opinions, but I’m sure Steve Smith and perhaps Billy Knight may have something to say. It may not have any actual relevance as far as the current situation but it might give us a little more insight as to why the A.S.S.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 6, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

And about the China ban that seems to be such a hot topic recently… check out this link

As you can see, the Chinese word for “criminal” is composed of two characters, one of which is the same word for “black”.

A lot can get lost in translation. I highly doubt that Beijing is not allowing black people into their restaurants.

By 3trees

August 6, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Hello. Long time reader of the blog, but I haven’t commented before. Is it just my machine/browser or is there a missing end to the sentence above in Sekou’s blog entry (2nd sentence of the paragraph):

“…If you’ve been riding with a certain side to this point, there’s no sense in trying to switch sides now. Even if it has become painfully obvious that “

I don’t think its as simple as a missing period. I tried refreshing and I can ALMOST figure out what he was going to say, but…

Thanks

By ASGSorriestOwnershipinSports

August 6, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

What more can we expect from a sorry good for nothing trash of an ownership? We have history of terrible ownerships in this city. Which I think may explain why the fans here are always pessmistic about everything. These guys just might be the worst of the bunch. I have never seen so many morons in one group of power than these clowns.

They took the Thrashers from a playoff team to the dumps in one season. They are about to do the same to the Hawks. Congrats ASG on destroying everything.

By james

August 6, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Lost in this whole Hawks situation is that the ASG also owns the Thrashers. If you need evidence that the ASG is either BROKE or UNWILLING TO SPEND MONEY, just look at the Thrashers. They have hit the Salary Cap FLOOR (meaning, there is a certain amount of money that the NHL makes you spend to keep a team active, and that is the lowest amount that is acceptable to spend). The Thrashers are just at that mark, and don’t appear to be spending any more money anytime soon. Look at that, compare it to the Hawks and J. Smith’s situation, and it seems as though all questions are answered. ASG either is Broke, or doesn’t want to spend. It’s as simple as that. It looks like ATL fans can get used to having crappy NBA and NHL teams, that is, until the leagues take these teams and move them somewhere else. Between the Falcons, Braves, Hawks, and Thashers, it would only take one of these teams to splurge a little and put a competitive team out there, and then the basis of all of these bad teams would have no choice but to support the promising winner. However, the owners do not want to be the 1st franchise to “go out on a limb” and spend money. It’s a sad time to be an Atlanta sports fan.

By doc

August 6, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

yeah najeh folks might have jumped the gun on that one.

By doc

August 6, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

sautee, funny i know kemp peripherally through a friend he dated in college. i think he was just beginning to consider music as a career and i hadnt heard anything about him since.

By B.A.ToDa

August 6, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Yea, it would be great to hear some insight from the Dominque’s and Steve Smith’s or even from current players on the roster (as of now). I just know Horford, Joe Johnson, Bibby, and especially Marvin Williams can see themselves in this same situation sometime very soon.

Good question about that extention talks with Marvin.

By doc

August 6, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

3 pointer, good man and i am glad i didnt call you a name there as i was tempted. heh heh please keep chiming in just make sure you have the right target and got your facts right or not as it may not matter anyway if someone is in the wrong mood. people are involved with this thing. keep it kind bro.

really sekou is very well respected among his peers and for that one i know i read his name in the national press acknowledging a beat reporter made the break on it.

By some sense

August 6, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Much of the venom Sekou cites comes from the crowd that has not concept of the reality attached to free market economics. If Josh were worth $11 mil., some team would have offered him $11 mil. While it remains debabtable whether he’s a s good as the guys getting $11 mil., any argument is moot. The market is speaking. It may change its mind later, but it is speaking loudly and clearly now. Josh thinks he’s worth $11 mil, his AAU coach thinks he’s worth $11 mil., but the only entity that matters - it’s the MARKET, thank you - does not.

If Josh’s agents knew anything about business, they may be able to explain market economics to him.

Unfortunately there remainss among many sports followers, basketball in particular, the deception of candidate Obama’s appeal to “economic justice”, a notion that, any way you look at it, flies in the face of free market economics.

Sekou, you are great. Please don’t take anything I or anyone else says personally because you don’t deserve to.

By B.A.ToDa

August 6, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

some sense, i can’t go by your first paragraph. If Okafur was worth $12/yr someone would of offered him that, if Ellis was worth what $60million some1 would of offered that to him. If Iguodala is worth the $70million that he is about to sign, some other team would of tried to get him. So people stop saying this bull. Half of the RFA did not receive any offers but does that mean they’re not worth **? Come on now people! Stop with this “some other” bull. If you believe that you might as well be working with the ASG.

By oldmike

August 6, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Sekou Thanks for mentioning old me in your blog. I agree analyzing someone else’s analysis is not very useful. I still don’t understand what is going on here. It all doesn’t make much sense. But, if there has been a constant during the last 4 years it’s that very little makes sense when the ASG is in the mix. Peace…

By B.A.ToDa

August 6, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

I’m just saying that “The market” doesn’t mean squat. I didn’t see any offers to Okafur or Ellies, or even Deng. But guess what… they got paid. And most of them got paid what they wanted.

By Tech75

August 6, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Dang, Sekou, take a breath, bro!

Try re-reading your own copy before you submit.

You’re letting this situation get to you to the extent that your writing has devolved to 4th grade level. You’re not even using spell check, for * sake. You’re a better writer than this, otherwise you wouldn’t have been hired, and wouldn’t be able to keep this job.

Get back to doing blog commentaries in a professional manner and leave the rants to Dennis Miller or to after-hours at the tavern, when you’re not “on the air”.

Or did you drink your lunch? Not a good idea.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 6, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Some sense,

We are not dealing with the Free Market here buddy, “this is not ‘Nam, there are rules” as Walter Sobchak so aptly put.

BASG’s ploy to match any offer, barring a trade scenario, might have actually scared off teams from doing that (please recall Joe’s situation in PHX. PHX did match the Hawks offer, which was meant to scare PHX. PHX had no real consideration to keep Joe but used the matching clause to leverage extra pieces from ATL). Conceivably ATL would/should have matched all offers with the cap and “momentum” Gearon alluded to. The net result however was that nobody offered to Smoov- or any other RFA of his ilk. Are we to believe they had no suitors assessing their market value either prior to their re-upping? With no competing offers, BASG is just trying to low-ball Smoov the way they tried to do Chills since they can/will theorhetically match any offer.

It would be smart business if it weren’t already exposed by the Childress fiasco as dubious. Bottom line is whether it’s “justice” or not the Hawks bottom line offer to Smoov, who’s market price should actually be rising according to previous logic based on comparable players, needs to …

RISE UP

By Volman

August 6, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I can sense your frustration in this blog…

We all know there is no new news for the Hawks, and we all know that it will be shown here FIRST when it’s official…and THANK YOU for that.

I think this entire blog is just kind of fed up and tired of being patient while waiting this thing out.. This front office could have definitely added some more pieces if it had just taken care of business with Childress and Smoove…

Did the Hawks get just one game nationally televised? Well, if so…then atleast it’s a start.

Sekou, what do you think Mario’s chances are that he can be the last guy to make this team? I REALLY loved his energy when he was in last year, and I know he can bring some of that energy 5-10 minutes a night if given a chance.

—I’m STILL not giving up on this team.—

By vdunkndunk

August 6, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

The Hawks are incompetent. It pains me to say, but there is no other explanation. There is no more benefit of the doubt. The ASG’s current claim to fame is they just guided this franchise to a 37-45 record. Since the East stinks that was good enough for the playoffs, but last time I checked a sub-.500 record and a first-round playoff loss are nothing to brag about.

And then there’s the fact they they’re suing each other, can’t ever get anything done, have already lost the 6th overall pick to the Euro league, drafted Marvin over two likely hall of famers at the PG position (which we desparately needed), then followed it up by drafting Shelden Williams number 5 overall, when really he looks like a second round pick at best (and even at the time everyone knew he shouldn’t have been a lottery pick since he’s short and unathletic as an NBA PF). Go away ASG!

By Sekou K. Smith

August 6, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Bibby is reportedly working out and working hard.

I don’t think there is any doubt that he was not in his usual shape when the Hawks landed him last year (he also had that thumb contraption on the remainder of the season), so it’s only reasonable to expect him to be better when training camp starts.

Marvin’s eligible for an extension, just as Smith and Childress were last year, and the guy drafted ahead of him has already gotten an huge bump up (Bogut will get $72 million, with incentives, from Milwaukee), as have the guys drafted behind him (Williams and Paul both signed for huge extensions).

But as of right now there has been no chatter at all about a possible extension for Marvin. Getting something done with Marvin seems like a bit of long shot right now, considering the folks that represent Josh Childress also represent him. If the sides were that far apart on Childress, I can’t imagine they are close right now on Marvin.

It’s hard for me to justify anyone thinking Billy Knight would suddenly become a fountain of information about the Hawks and Atlanta Spirit now when we couldn’t get the cat to say much of anything when he was on the payroll. But I’d imagine that his decision to walk away from this situation rather than dig in for another year (or possibly more) says more than he ever could.

I don’t think people are either willing or eager to come out and bash the organization (they work for or are affiliated with) publicly, even if that’s how they feel privately. It usually never works that way.

And we’re still a long way from training camp, which is when we’ll know more about how this stuff with the roster will take shape. As frightening as it sounds, we could still be having these same conversations by the time training camp rolls around.

By Realist

August 6, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I like how last week you gave me a hard time for describing the “two camps” of opinions on Josh Smith, and then this week you turn around and write about how “no one here seems willing to be swayed” and how there is no point trying to get anyone to switch sides. Well done.

By Some Common Sense

August 6, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

SOME SENSE

Perhaps you should stick to Economic Forecasting. Why don’t you call someone with the Clippers and find out what kind of offer sheet they had prepared for Josh before Denver decided to hand them Marcus Camby without compensation? Then call the 76’ers and ask them what they had in mind for Josh before Elton Brand fell into their lap. Just because the Hawks think that Josh is worth 9 million doesn’t make it so. The market has spoken. You just can’t seem to understand it!

By kirknga

August 6, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

No one has a monopoly on “truth”. Truth is how you see something given the amount and quality of information you have available at the time.

Some, many, blame the Hawks for not foreseeing something that had never been done before. Namely, that a quality NBA player would be offered a contract and actually leave to go play in Europe.Small -time players have left yes, but not second-tier players entering their prime.

A few say, the move couldn’t have been foreseen. In addition, with the quick additions to the bench, the Childress situation is a wash. This is perspective, not necessarily truth.

The Smith situation should be resolved soon. If not, then ASG will deserve blame, especially if there are “blockbuster” sign and trade deals to in the offering and they lose those opportunities and it has a negative impact on the court.

What many called a stalemate, a few call hard negotiating. Apparently that isn’t allowed for the Atlanta Hawks given their poor administrative history.

In other sports, teams sign players after prolonged periods, so to see this stalemate as anything other than that, a stalemate, is not truth at this point, it’s bias.

Again, this is perspective, not necessarily truth.

Hard negotiations are a part of business and the end result is always one that could have been reached at the outset in the first place. So if the Hawks sign Smith, or trade him in a week or two, what’s the difference? He’s either on the team or he’s not.

Once again we’re told of the player’s hurt feelings, but what about the organization? What are they feeling?

I am not blaming Sekou here, but I want to know why it is the Hawks believe Smith’s market value is $9 million/year, if that is in fact where they stand. We don’t know where that info is coming from and if it is biased to one side or the other.

Again, this information would still be gossip and it’s impact, if any, yet to be determined on the court.

I am as pragmatic as I can be when it comes to the team. I prefer to pronounce judgment in June-July 09 rather than August 08.

To me, the most relevant truth is the won-loss record of the team. I will have all the information I need at that point, because it will come from the court and I can evaluate players, coaches, and the organization that put it all together.

For me, any truth beyond the won-loss record is merely perspective. Players come and go, but there’s no doubting that won-loss.

As it stands now, the Hawks are a 37-win team that lost it’s way into the playoffs, but played outstanding only at home. That has added a couple of sensible and solid, but not spectacular pieces; who lost their 6th man who prefer a larger offer to go play in Greece; who have an oft-injured player returning; who have their lead PG fully healthy, who have several young players who may or may not progress,and who are in hard negotiations for a talented, but not flawless, 4-year player who may or may not become a superstar.

Oh, and are owned by an organization that brought you the team many are desperate to keep together in the first place, and has a history of losing teams since taking over in the second place.

As for the hate. It might be that some believe they have sole possession of wisdom, insight , and truth by virtue of some self-defined authority. Others think and believe not.

Some from the latter are comfortable and stand by their positions, while others buckle under the spotlight of the former. The spotlight must be shown on all who don’t believe,even if they don’t seek it. The more they don’t believe, the brighter and more intense the spotlight must become.

There are always strength in numbers, but not necessarily “truth”. Dissent is often discouraged by an authority figure,ridicule and punishment are then used as well.

There really is nothing new here.

By B.A.ToDa

August 6, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Thanks for answering those questions Sekou. I didn’t know Marvin was being represented by the same people as Childress. So I would not be surprised if he’s in the exact situation next summer. I know he probably feel bad seeing all those other guys drafted below him getting extensions worht huge $$. But hopefully that will only boost Marvin to work harder and to prove some of us wrong that think he was drafted to high. Go out and prove yourself this season Marvin (especially if we lose Smith).

By MrSmoot4

August 6, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon bloggers,

I believe that if Josh Smith was really pressed to leave or get things moving he could easily do what Luol Deng did with the Bulls.

Tell them that they have a deadline to get a deal done or the negotiations would be over with. He will sign the qualifying offer and bolt at seasons end. This would force. ASG’s hand into speeding up the process and giving Josh the money that he wants or speed up the sign and trades that they may or may not be pondering. This strategy in the end might make everyone happy especially us the fans.

What do you guys think?

Sekou, do u think that Josh and his reps may take this approach since it almost immediately sped up the process for Luol and the Bulls??????

By Sekou K. Smith

August 6, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Don’t give up Volman. Ha. And it is a bit frustrating, I think, for all of us. But that’s the rub. We’re bystanders, basically, in a larger game that includes lots of other players with agendas that don’t always include us (the media and the fans). So what seems like foolishness or insensitivity about certain things to us is really just people operating in their own vacuum the same way we do here. That is a part of this process that we’ve all come to know well over the past few years.

Mario will certainly have to earn his spot on this team, if there is to be one. Any fringe guys will have to do the same with a new GM running the show.

By ant banks

August 6, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Right now, both the Hawks and JSmoove need to grow a pair. Josh needs to come out and say “F- it!” I am signing the qualifying offer sheet and bolting at the end of the year or either the Hawks need to be done and say “F- it!” We are done negotiating! They both are acking like “Wussies!”

By falcon gator

August 6, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

The team is a joke. The ownership is even more a joke. Apparantly there was not a single person with enough capital in Atlanta to buy the Hawks a few years ago(who wanted to). Therefore, we are stuck with the Keystones Cops. The NBA has become no more than professional wrestling, They should have never allowed the sale. The team has no fan support. The apathy is deafening. Please move the team to some city who cares and clear up the sports page.

By Hoosier

August 6, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

I regret to say that my tenure as a Hawks fan after thirty years, a couple of which were spent in a reporting capacity, will probably come to an end this summer.

It is ironic that Geron Sr. was responsible for keeping the Hawks in Atlanta. Yet his son (Geron Jr.), and his arrogant and incompetent attempts at running this organization, is the reason I will no longer have interest in this team!

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 6, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

kirknga,

I’ll be a bit prosaic in my assessment of “truth” and it’s relativity. Clearly the denizens of this blog employ this forum as an area to share their perspectives, and yes, while we who are “not in the know” can only speculate, certain “truths” have established themselves by most standards.

The Hawks straight dropped the ball with regards to Childress- they gave up something for nothing. It is true to say that the GM’s job is to maneuver in the best manner he sees fit (his truth) to position the franchise for success. Even if the Hawks would not pay Childress “X”, they should have sought to get something for him. They got nothing- that is the truth (and don’t count retained rights, because if you do, what we did get was his cap number for this season).

Another truth is that we were a 37 win team. Your perspective is that we “lost our way into the playoffs”, but we made it. Truthfully we needed to improve the roster in order to get better positioning in Eastern Conference. Truthfully as it stands now, we haven’t done that. Embittering our emotional leader does not augur well for our prospects of having a happy emotional leader. It could lead to outburst, locker room upheaval, or even (the ultimate truth) losses in the score column.

What you and even I have been meaning to say is, “opinion”. We all know the maxim about those. But when there seems to be a common opinion, consensus can be viewed as “truth” (re: Einstein’s THEORY of relativity vs. the LAW [truth] of gravity). Credibility comes with support for your opinons/perspective- this is what’s being posited on this blog, ad naseum at times: Smoov is worth more than $9mil.

Truth: Josh Smith’s future has yet to be determined with the Hawks. Opinion: It’s BASG’s fault for not ponying up. Perspective: All disgruntled Hawks fans need to…

RISE UP

By ant banks

August 6, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Right now, both the Hawks and JSmoove need to grow a pair. Josh needs to come out and say “F- it!” I am signing the qualifying offer sheet and bolting at the end of the year or either the Hawks need to be done and say “F- it!” We are done negotiating! They both are acking like “Wussies!”

By Mitch

August 6, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the update, Sekou…if, as you said, we can call it that. But the old thread was getting five miles long and it was so vague (you left us hanging about what the two rumored sign and trade deals were—that was not nice!)…

But…here’s my question for you:

The Hawks saved quite a bit of money when Chills signed in Greece…what they paid for Evans was $3-$4M less than what they would have had to pay for Chills.

That said, why don’t the Hawks up the ante to $11M for JSmoove?

This, IMO, is the only way the Hawks are going to save face with the fans and the local and national media. People will say Chills got an unmatchable contract and took it, but at least they wouldn’t be saying the Hawks blew it with Smith.

Otherwise, is it realy an option to have him play for the one year tender and have him walk in a year with—AGAIN—no compensation?

It’s either up the ante or do a sign and trade, don’t you think?

By Bulldog Mike

August 6, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

I believe that in the end we will all come to believe that the Hawks muffed this summer, failed to capitalize on last year and perhaps will keep the wrong Josh. If we could have signed both Joshes and maybe added Luol Deng then I would have agreed that we were moving in the right direction. As it stands, the Hawks management stand to lose the best two players and sink back into the malaise we saw the last few years. Coach Woodson spend your money wisely because with this group of players you’ll be gone at year end.

By Mitch

August 6, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

SEKOU: Another thing about the truth, er, venom…

The truth is…the Hawks had a golden opportunity to make quite a splash this off-season with the direction of the team, by hiring a GM and head coach that would have the city buzzing.

Instead we get Sund and the re-hiring of Woodson. Add these two underachievers with Michael Gearon, who obviously has no clue as to how to build a championship caliber organization, and we have the THREE STOOGES…or the THREE BLIND MICE!

There’s the real venom (a.k.a. truth) for you…all else trickles down from there.

By The Truth

August 6, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

[http://my.nba.com/forum.jspa?forumID=400032200]](http://www.ajc.com)

Excerpts:

*The Rest of the Free Agents — I think Deng’s money went up and Okafor, the money he turned down, he ended up signing again. That’s good that he didn’t get caught in that loop hole where he lost money, at least he stayed at the same level. They offered him $12 million, he turned down $12 million and he ended up with $12 million.

Iguodala hasn’t signed yet, either has Ben Gordon or Josh Smith. These players right now are competing against each other, believe it or not. If one of their teams decide to go after one of the other players, that’s going to push that player out.*

Based on Gilbert Arenas Blog, Josh Smith, Iguodala, and Ben Gordon are competing for perphaps Max dollars. Maybe that explains the slow pace.

Obviously, Josh is demanding Max dollars which is outside of the ASG budget. The only likely outcome is a sign-and-trade scenario. This would net the Hawks more players and/or draft picks for the same Max dollars.

The risk in this scenerio for the Hawks is acquiring more quantity of players that are not equal in quality to Josh Smith.

By Hoosier

August 6, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

I think Hawks fans need an accounting of just how much meddling Geron Jr., and some of the other ASG owners, have had with this team.

- Knight not allowed to fire Woodson.
- Calderon for Childress trade nixed.

Perhaps Billy Knight passed on the likes of Deng, Paul, and Roy because he was ordered to. We may never know.

I beleive this ownership group to be the most “hands-on”, of any team in the NBA. That is why negotiations/trades/and personel moves don’t happen, and when they do, the results are laughable.

By AfroDawg

August 6, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

I want to see Mike Woodson come out the first game wearing a cheap/Doc Rivers/Avery Johnson type suit, and coach his a$@ off. To H-E-L-L with Josh Smith’s greedy behind, 9 miilion is more than he’ll ever spend, provided he knows how to handle money. These young kids get caught up in a high stakes game of Let’s keep up with the Jones’s. How about actually accomplishing something, then asking for the moon?

By mykhalc

August 6, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

and don’t forget the VP of OPS (or whatever his title was..can’t remember his name either…BK reported to him) that resigned with the specific reason that the owners wanted to be more hands-on!!! that resignation ‘might’ be the most tellin’ and prophetic thing to happen to ‘really’ signal the behind the curtain things that the stupid a$$ BASG is responsible for!!!

BRAINLESS…CLUELESS…USELESS…PERIOD!!!

By Ben

August 6, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

ASG and Sund say their first priority is to sign Smoove and CHillz, and 9 mill is all they offer for Smoove?

Sekou, aren’t there currently 7-8 roster spots taken? After Smoove is signed, there should be about 2-4 spots still available, right?

This is becoming a joke.

We can’t sign any FA’s without Smoove signed, so this team is still a joke.

I was thinking of ECF this year.

Right now i’m hoping for 35 wins.

By The Truth

August 6, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

Dont know if this has been mentioned or not so I’m sorry if it has already been mention..

My main problem is…who would want to do business with the ASG Hawks? Seriously. It was a mess just trying to get Joe a few years ago in a sign and trade and the mess that we are in now is far worst then that ordeal. At least we got Joe out of that….

If I’m the owner of a team I don’t know if I would even want to put up with the ASG. Josh is an excellent player but it would be an headache trying to do a sign and trade with the ASG. I’m sure they’ll ask for a lot more than they are willing to pay the man.

By kirknga

August 6, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Iguodala hasn’t signed yet, either has Ben Gordon or Josh Smith. These players right now are competing against each other, believe it or not. If one of their teams decide to go after one of the other players, that’s going to push that player out.

I wonder if this is true or not? It certainly is a perspective we’ve not heard before.

Surely Smith isn’t seeking max money, I mean if, and I mean if, he is seeking max money,then that would go against the truth that says this stalemate is all the fault of ASG wouldn’t it?

If it is true, I wonder what other Hawks are saying to themselves that he would believe he was worth max money?

No, I don’t believe this. We are told his feelings are all hurt, but surely his camp is sensible.

By J-Smoov

August 6, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

If the Hawks don’t resign me they will not make it back to the playoffs

By Ken Strickland

August 6, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

All I know is the SAASG and Sund repeatedly stated publically that they would MATCH any and all offers to retain JSmith and JChildress. I understand them not being able to match Childress’ offer. The SAASG was willing/able to match a potentially front loaded contract, probably with incentives, for an amount equal to, or maybe greater than, what JSmith is seeking now. So, why aren’t they willing to offer him a contract without the incentives and the front loading, but for simular money?

Like I’ve said before, they were thrown a loop when he wasn’t offered a contract. Their intention was to do a sign and trade. They’re now willing to keep him, but only at their price. Otherwise, he’ll likely be traded. I think they like Horford at PF more than Josh, especially for the money. Signing Josh for the money he’s asking could make it difficult to resign Marvin, JJ and Horford in the future.

By Juice

August 6, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Too many people are saying that if Josh Smith is worth $11 or $12 million then some team would have offered it to him by now.

I disagree. For a team to acquire Josh Smith, the team would have to value him to be worth more than $11 or $12 million. Not only will the interested team have to (eventually) pay Josh the big bucks but they would ALSO have to give up picks and/or other players too in a sign and trade.

By NumbaOneFan

August 6, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

The ASG are nothing but a bunch pussies and coksuckers with a low rent bank book

By Astro Joe

August 6, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

Black Myk, you’re referring to Bernie Mullen, ASG President. They have also let go the CFO and the Marketing VP in the past 9-12 months. If I didn’t know any better, I would say that the rats are jumping from this ship. Now could that be because they see Belkin in a nuclear submarine ready to blow them away or is it that working afor such incompetent leaders is comparable to working in a hazardous zone?

I understand that the Hawks have a very long home stand in mid-December. Sautee, my original prediction was Woody would get the gas-face by the King Holiday. But maybe, if that home stand reeks, they will pull the trigger before the New Year. They wouldn’t allow Hartley to take the Thrashers on a long road trip when they gave him the boot… that may be Woody’s Waterloo.

Sekou as you can tell by the sheer number of posts in the past 7 hours, any news is welcome news. Even if the news is “no news”. Thanks.

By mykhalc

August 6, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

JOE, thanks for restorin’ my memory!!!LOL yep that’s who i was thinkin’ of.

but you know, maybe a short memory is the best thing in regards to our HAWKS and definitely the SABASG!!! so with that bein’ said, i DO NOT recall that we were in the playoffs last season!!! ah back to NO EXPECTATIONS and NO HOPE!!! kinda healthy in this situation!!!

By BlackMyk

August 6, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

JOE, man i just hate it when other cats answer for me!!! now where are the GSW cheerleaders at???

By Astro Joe

August 6, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

I do feel sorry for the Hawks sales force. Right now, they must feel like they’re trying to sell Chevy Suburbans. (A friend of mine says his Suburban holds 36 gallons of gas, man, I think I’d just buy $20 of gas a day rather than try to fill that battle ship up).

Anyone care to write-up what a Hawks sales pitch would sound like now? Would they even attempt to offer up Evans and Morris as replacements for the Highlight Factory?

By infamousrks

August 6, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

it’s fun being in “circus ride” like the Favre divorce !~ when will we be freed from these “clowns wearin’ suits that squeezed into the small car” act? David Stern should ,and i’m sure he is, amazed \ of this THING HE WITH OTHERS APPROVED !

WAKE UP DAVE….handle your business !

If the Hawks want to salvage any type of “some-what” left dignity….REWARD SMOOTH !

GET IT DONE ALREADY !!!!!

By BIGDOG

August 6, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Why!Why!Why! can’t we get some Hawks management with some sense.Trade JJ and Smith 4 a center and Shooting guard.Move Horford to power forward.Utilize Marvin Williams like they utilized Wilkins.AKA Charlotte. Or even look at getting a Center .Try and trade Smith for Bynum in LA.The Lakers spend and you now have a solid center beside Horford.Resign Stoudamire and finally let him play.He’s that John Kerr and Paxson that you need late in the game not sitting on the bench when you need energy and JJ needs a break .You can’t expect a person to put up numbers when you don’t use him.This is a young team they like to run not slow the game down.You should try using the triangle offense in ATL.Takes pressure off JJ and it utilizes your front and gives you that consistent mid range shot.

By Edo River

August 6, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Mr. Smith I always will look forward to your articles on the Hawks. The time I spend reading your words is the amount of time I spend thinking about the team. There are more important things in life. Alot more things, alot more important. Best regards from Japan.

By infamousrks

August 6, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

(takes a bow) damn Sekou….you’re international !

By infamousrks

August 6, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

reports outta CHEESELAND…..the Packers are offering Brett + a bag of DORITOS to tha MIGHTY ATL for “something that makes sense’ !

“something that makes sense” = garbage

but Speedy’s contract mighty apply!

By infamousrks

August 6, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

“mighty apply”=a must

By terrell barron

August 6, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Hey Imus, we also know everything that yopu just said, but you said it anyway. lol!!

By terrell barron

August 6, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Hey Imus, we also know everything that you just said, but you said it anyway. lol!!

By BlackMyk

August 6, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

JOE, here’s the sales pitch…

‘sir/maam…gas is at an all-time high and i gotta feed my family. i CANNOT be worried about my employer’s product!!! PLEASE support my family…PERIOD’!!!

By Rick Sund's mother

August 6, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

if the hawks aren’t willing to pay the contract range of biedrins/ellis/deng range, then they’re cheap.

but i’m willing to bet smith is asking for more than that to force the hawks’ hand. smith doesn’t want to stay in atlanta. the only thing that will change his mind is money. and the hawks clearly aren’t forking whatever he’s asking for over.

smith doesn’t want to play here, and the hawks don’t want to pay him. so trade him. if the hawks want to be cheap, they can get some young talent in a trade with a team like memphis.

i really don’t think this is sund’s fault. he’s not allowed to spend any money because his 191 bosses are all cheap.

By darrell starks

August 6, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

US FANS IN THE ATL MUST WAKE UP THE ONLY OWNER WE CARE ABOUT IN THIS CITY IS ARTHUR BLANK BECAUSE HE CARE ABOUT US AS SPORTS fan WE NO THE FALCON have not won a championship but THIS MAN WILL DO what ever it takes to win one even if it mean OVER PAYING FOR A PLAYER THATS WHY we should always support THE FALCONS.NOW ASG IS A DIFFERENT STORY UNTIL THEY SELL THIS FRANCHISE THE HAWKS WILL ALWAYS BE A SUBPAR TEAM AT BEST AND THATS THE TRUTH.GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By BlackMyk

August 6, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

SALES PITCH 2.0

‘sir/maam…gas is at an all-time high and i gotta feed my family. i CANNOT be worried about my employer’s product!!! they aren’t!!! so neither should you!! PLEASE help me support my family…PERIOD’!!!

By INGRAM III

August 6, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

ATLANTA HAWKS TRADE JOSH SMITH HE IS WHAT HE IS 9 MILLION SOUND RIGHT. DEAL WITH JOSH.

By The Truth

August 6, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

darrell starks

That’s an interesting thought; Maybe we can influence Authur Blank to buy the Hawks

Sekou

Can you work-up some propaganda lauguage along this idea and go to print with the story?

By Astro Joe

August 6, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

Hi, I’m calling from the Hawks regarding our exciting 12-game package. No, we did not re-sign Childress, but we’re offering free haircuts to the first 5,000 fans attending our home opener. We call it “No More Afros” night at Philips. Josh Smith? Not yet but if we fail to re-sign him, we’re giving all of our ticket-holders exclusive access to the team’s draft party when we will likely have a great shot at drafting a young phenom whom we will nurture for 4 years and then set free to another team. So, are you interested in the weekend package or our big game package?

By terrell barron

August 6, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Who cares about Marvin gettin an extension? That’s the LAST thing on my mind right now. Seriously!

By CoolBreeze

August 6, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Bruce Levenson used to go onto realgm.com and hawksquawk.net all the time. He used to come onto there offering ticket deals. Saying everything the fans wanted to hear.

I haven’t seen him on either site since then. I really thought this ownership group was going to do some great things. Now when it come to prove their worth they completely backstab the fans from the front.

All I can say is find that judge who gave Belkin the win in his case.

SAVE US STEVE BELKIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure he isn’t any better than the current group. Dealing with one bad owner is a lot better than dealing with 6-8 bad owners.

By terrell barron

August 6, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

Bigdog, you said trade JJ and Smith, and then you said bring the triangle to Atlanta to help out JJ. wtf? Come again. And Francisco Elson has received offers from Milwuakee, FC Barcelona, and ATLANTA, according to Hoopshype.

By terrell barron

August 6, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Bigdog, you said trade JJ and Smith, and then you said bring the triangle to Atlanta to help out JJ. wtf? Come again. And Francisco Elson has received offers from Milwuakee, FC Barcelona, and ATLANTA, according to Hoopshype. At least Sund knows you need BIGS to win.

By hawkfan

August 6, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

WELL IT SEEMS LIKE BRETT FAVRE BEAT JOSH SMITH, HE’S NOW TRADED TO THE NEW YORK JETS, THANKS to the slow pace of the josh situation im appalled by this, im to the point i dont even care what happens, all i want is to know our complete team roster whoever is on it, is that too much to ask

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

Brett Favre must be trying extra hard to ruin his legacy. The Jets? Please!

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

If we sign S,oovew and bring in Elson, will yall get off Sund’s ….? You too Sekou. lol!!

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

If we re-sign Smoove and bring in Elson, will yall get off Sund’s ….? You too Sekou. lol!!

By BLUE EAGLE

August 7, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this

let go of the cash and pay smoove, and recover your investment through the season

or

lose the ticket sales, lose the revenue and say bye bye to the cash, accept the opportunity loss

either way you lose the dough

so get it over with

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 7, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

About damn time Brett Favre got traded… maybe ESPN will stop talking about him 24/7 now. Oh wait…

By A Thinking Fan

August 7, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

BASG please, not worth the time it took to type this…

By ray

August 7, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

yaaaawwwwwwwwnnnn……

#21=top 50*, well said. Reasonable, simple, and not emotionally charged. Which makes it difficult to argue with, as evidenced by the lack of response.

So, nothing has changed? Josh isn’t signed (or traded), some people continue to point fingers towards Iguodala and Gordon (which has what exactly to do with Smith?) for obscure reasons…as that list of “in the same canoe” gets rapidly smaller and smaller.

Brett Favre will be on a team, Iguodala will get good money, and the Bulls are not in nearly as desperate need to move or sign Gordon as we are in need of resolution to the Josh Smith situation. Oh wait, let me be careful to label that as simple opinion. And please, nobody agree with me on that, or it will become labeled as conventional wisdom, which we all should acknowledge as being an evil and malignant thing.

Meanwhile, people continue to hate on Sekou for not reporting that which is simply not there to report, and a crusade for the sole purpose of bashing any sort of majority opinion (however and whenever convenient, regardless of how ridiculous) continues to masquerade falsely as a campaign for the discovery of truth.

Yep, ain’t nothin’ changed at all.

By Homer

August 7, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

Is there anything WORSE than a person with an opinion that claims to be unbiased?

By Gilley

August 7, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this

I think Josh Smith should just sign the qualifying offer, play his behind off this upcoming season, and test the free agency and earn more than what he is asking for and force the Hawks to realize they need to sign you for a long term deal.

Josh, if you are reading this, we need a player like you in Atlanta. Your excitement, athleticism, and talent on the court fills the stands in Philips Arena. And for you to be a home guy, that makes it even better cause people like me walked the same streets as you and saw you in high school while we were there.

I think you deserve 10-12 Million a year but this season put up 20+ ppg, 10+ rpg, 4 apg, 4 bpg and push your worth to 13 a year and FORCE them to sign you to a long term deal with whatever you like.

Play with a chip on your shoulder, get along with Woody and make the Hawks improve and get past the first round at least ONE MORE YEAR. Do it for the fans.

NO STAN

By toddhawksfan

August 7, 2008 1:37 AM | Link to this

Why is there a blog article talking about the fact that there is nothing to talk about? Weird. the Hawks haven not signed one of their best starters and there is no news of any talks at all but there are actually people who still think it is not the organization fault? Are players allowed to present contracts to the team? OK then did not think so. Josh may not be happy with nine million per year but where is it printed that he is wanting the maximum money for a fact? It is reported that nobody is talking. Either that is true or the reporter is a liar. I dont think he is lying. Every other team in the NBA is at least reporting progress or regress of some sort except the Hawks. I dont think it is because the Hawks have somehow figured out a smarter way to do business in secret but instead they are just not doing anything. There may not be evidence to support this idea, but there is not evidence to support the opposite either. How much worse can it get.

By aNGry fAn

August 7, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

Iguodala hasn’t signed yet, either has Ben Gordon or Josh Smith. These players right now are competing against each other, believe it or not. If one of their teams decide to go after one of the other players, that’s going to push that player out.

WHO CARES? THIS DOESN’T EVEN MAKE SENSE!!!! ANYBODY WHO CAN SIGN IGUODALA WON’T WANT GORDON. ANYBODY WHO CAN SIGN JOSH SMITH WOULDN’T WANT IGUODALA. GORDON IS ONE DIMENSIONAL, HE ONLY SHOOTS THE BALL AND IS SHORT. WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE SPIRTI GROUP’S CHEAP LAME AZZ TACTICS. NOTHING!!!

By BIGDOG

August 7, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this

Don’t get me wrong I think it would work great to keep Smith. But the Hawks are too cheap and want something for nothing.Get rid of JJ he’s the one making the most money.He puts of shots but he is ever cold thats where stoudamire fit in and have failed to sign him too. ATL really sucks

By Gypsyjoe

August 7, 2008 4:15 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

I have a question that is not about the Josh Smith non news. I hear you say that the kid Hunter should go to the vets camp. Is that a camp for NBA vets without teams??

By Aaron B

August 7, 2008 7:34 AM | Link to this

Well, I’m seriously considering changing my name on here to Angry fan too…lol. Because for the first time(yes first time) I’m actually angry at the new ownership. This, even now is still a no-brainer. Not signing Josh Smith and locking him up for 6 would almost rank up there with the Dominqiue trade.

Sekou, did you send the results of these polls to the ownership group? Or maybe even Rick Sund?

By clint

August 7, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this

if we add elson and resign, the offseason would not be a total loss and I would consider travelling from tennessee to catch a game. However, as things stand, I will just catch them all on league pass.

The hawks have gone cheap again with the signing of mo evans and morris. they would have been considered good additions if we still had chills. I will do likewise and go on the cheap if they don’t resign smoove. the asg will see even more empty seats if they don’t resign smoove, DONT THEY GET THAT?

By Paddy

August 7, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Angry Fan…. make some noise fans. Iam with you. The only problem is there are not enough fans left who give a dam. There will always be the die-hards. Just not enough of them to have even a small crowd at Phillips. As Skip Carey said,”Lot of folks here tonight disguised as empty seats”Que; “What time is the game? Ans;”What time can you get here?”

By doc

August 7, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

astro, i assure you the pitch right now from the sales department isnt that the tickets are selling like hot cakes an there will be few seats to choose from if you wait. that was the pitch in may.

now, it is all about having fun watching basketball and other players, not necessarily watching the hawks win because they dont know who will be on the team. they also know the team is weaker until the issues at hand are resolved.

my take is the number of seats sold already and the revenue stream from other sources are capable of maybe funding a team at he minimum cap space avoiding overpaying josh in terms of their bottom line not perceived market value. to go much further beyond that is too risky hoping fans will converge on the ticket booth to make up the difference. they would rather risk a sign and trade for josh to rake in players that will cost less and fill out the roster spaces left.

is it not right that in a sign and trade the team sending the signed player doesnt and cant take on more than about 2/3 of the contract of player leaving? so doesnt this for fiscal purposes work well for the hawks wanting to save money while fielding a team? that may be why there is so little activity to round out the roster, waiting to see how many players come back to make up the difference.

please realize that above stated comments are my opinion only, no truth and only conjecture. the truth is how sign and trades work, i only think what i say is right or correct as they are quite complicated. manny t is our expert and maybe he will field an opinion to the relevance of my thinking to what might be going through the heads of the hawks management if the perceived thought, that they are underfunded, is more than conjecture. am i clear there is no ABSOLUTE TRUTH to what i say or anyone else says here? dont we know this from the start or should we continue to consider this unless all truths are confirmed in a formal bibliography at the end of a text with full references to any truth? geez.

By doc

August 7, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

astro, i assure you the pitch right now from the sales department isnt that the tickets are selling like hot cakes an there will be few seats to choose from if you wait. that was the pitch in may.

now, it is all about having fun watching basketball and other players, not necessarily watching the hawks win because they dont know who will be on the team. they also know the team is weaker until the issues at hand are resolved.

my take is the number of seats sold already and the revenue stream from other sources are capable of maybe funding a team at he minimum cap space avoiding overpaying josh in terms of their bottom line not perceived market value. to go much further beyond that is too risky hoping fans will converge on the ticket booth to make up the difference. they would rather risk a sign and trade for josh to rake in players that will cost less and fill out the roster spaces left.

is it not right that in a sign and trade the team sending the signed player doesnt and cant take on more than about 2/3 of the contract of player leaving? so doesnt this for fiscal purposes work well for the hawks wanting to save money while fielding a team? that may be why there is so little activity to round out the roster, waiting to see how many players come back to make up the difference.

please realize that above stated comments are my opinion only, no truth and only conjecture. the truth is how sign and trades work, i only think what i say is right or correct as they are quite complicated. manny t is our expert and maybe he will field an opinion to the relevance of my thinking to what might be going through the heads of the hawks management if the perceived thought, that they are underfunded, is more than conjecture. am i clear there is no ABSOLUTE TRUTH to what i say or anyone else says here? dont we know this from the start or should we continue to consider this unless all truths are confirmed in a formal bibliography at the end of a text with full references to any truth? geez.

By Mike

August 7, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

SEKOU,

Thanks for answering questions. Appreciate the good coverage.

By HHoops

August 7, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

Guys

This is what I think is going on. ASG is signing all the players that they can afford before they resign J. Smith. They have to do it that way to avoid paying luxury tax. They can sign their own FA’s and go over the soft cap(58.6 M) and not have to pay any luxury tax. If they sign J. Smith first and then add other players they will have to pay the tax.

It looks like they are after Elison. If they can get him with the other FA’s that they have signed (Evans & Morris), it will have been a pretty good off season with a tight budget and they will have improved their team. Remember, ASG have other players to resign in the future so they can’t break the bank especially until they see what is going to happen with the ligation with Belkin in February.

This could be our opening day line up:

Starters-Bibby/JJ/Marvin/Smith/Horford

Bench-Acie/Speedy/Evans/L. Jackson/Solomon/Morris/Zaza

That’s a better team than we had last year!

By Kevin Willis

August 7, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Sekou you are the man. Excellent read. Very sad the state of the ASG with both the Hawks and Thrashers. I wonder how many more years us fans have to suffer? This is ridiculous. We try to be positive, but they (the ASG) are really putting us to the test. It’s very hard to have two of the biggest losers in one city (thrashers and hawks) and NOTHING is being done about it. I wonder what Woody has on someone in the ASG along with Don Waddell? They have to have some photos or something of some of the ASG folks to keep their jobs this long. Sund is a puppet, I’ve said it since day one. Must be nice to collect that salary and not do a darn thing. I want that job. Well heres to another year of being one of the worst sports cities in the world. Very tough to do.

By Realist

August 7, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Sekou, I like how you tell us nothing in your blogs, then in your occasional replies in your blogs, that’s when you actually figure “hmmm maybe I can tell them about the other players on the team, such as Marvin or Bibby.” Has it ever occurred to you maybe we want to hear about other players on the team besides Smoove?

By Jim

August 7, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

I thought I read somewhere back when Belkan and those other bozos were fighting in court that limitations were put on length of contract/total $ amount for any new signings until the entire ownership mess was resolved.Does anyone know about this, because if this is the case I can seen why nobody is doing anything.

By yetta

August 7, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

I already signed up for my three season tickets; I did this from the very beginning because we are huge fans of J. Smith. No matter where Josh goes, we will continue to follow his career. I am very sad that I may not see him on our team this coming season.

By Sekou K. Smith

August 7, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Gypsyjoe when I say veteran’s camp I’m talking about training camp for the Hawks. Some people just call it training camp but most NBA coaches and execs I know refer to it as veteran’s camp (as opposed to rookie/free agent camps that are held before summer league play).

And according to you Realist there is never anything worthy of your time on this blog anyway, right? It’s strange how you keep coming back. If there’s nothing here for you, kick rocks dude. Has that option ever occurred to you?

By I.MUS WRITE

August 7, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Big dog- Are you nutz…….. Why the hell would we want to get rid of JJ. Im glad you dont work in the front office. Trade JJ and this team doesnt win 30 games…..What is it are you angry because his truck is bigger than yourz?

I agree Gilley…… If I were Josh I would play nice and get along with Woodcock- meanwhile playn every game like its my last. 20/10 would definitely get you that big pay day next summer….Just look at Brand,he’s a 20/10 guy who was injured for an entire season and cashed in big.

HHoops- good info,I didnt know that about the signings. Lets just hope that’s the plan.

F.Elson- Now thatz what im talking about. I have been wanting this guy here for a couple years now. I hope he signs with us.This is a better situation for him ……He will probably be a back up in Milwaukee behind Bogut. Why not come here and get plugged in right awawy.

Bibbz/JJ/Smoove/Horford/Elson

Acie/Evans/Marv/ZAZA/

Dam it -Terrell do you ever sleep my man, ur like a b-ball junkie on steroids- just clowning

Brett Favre…… Amen sumone please sign his azz-this story has taken over my summer. You cant even turn on the tube without seeing his mug- Either he’s crying,complaining or playing the victim……..Jeezuz man- I dont know which one i saw more the Favre thing or the Donahee garbage.

One more thing -If we do sign Elson ….I would feel alot betta about a sign n trade with maybe Dallas Howard/Bass……. Before I get reemed … I know he smokes bud and drag races ….

Im jus sayn a Bibby/JJ/Howard/Horford/Elson line up isnt bad at all especially with

Acie/Marvin/Evans/Bass/ZAZA coming off the bench…….just a thought

By SSI Fan

August 7, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

The most important issue involving the Hawks is the ownership lawsuit. I wish there were updates on the case, because it seems clear to me that the uncertainty of the result is paralyzing the team.

Consider this analogy. 8 people buy a million dollar house together with each owning a different percentage of the ownership in the house. They rent the house but the monthly rent received is less than the mortgage payment so every month each of the owners has to take money from savings to make up the difference. There is a disagereement and the person who owns the biggest portion (30%) of the house gets to stop contributing to the mortgage and upkeep on the house. The other 7 have to pay more toward the mortgage and upkeep every month for 3 years. Additionally there is a buy-sell agreement which provides that either the 30% owner can buy out the other owners interests for the amount of their original investment (not to include the money later put in to make the monthly payments or do upkeep on the house) or the other owners have to pay the 30% owner 30% of the value of the house at the time of the disagreement. There is a lawsuit to decide which of these 2 options will occur. Should the 7 people making all the mortgage payments and paying for the upkeep spend a large sum of money to further improve the house when they might not own it in 6 months? If they do not win the lawsuit, they will not be reimbursed for the cost of the improvements and will not benefit from any increased value of the house.

For those who keep relying on the ASG statement that they were going to match any offer to the Joshes did you expect them to say that they were not going to match any offer? If you were having an affair and your wife, without any proof, asked if you were having an affair what would you say?

By Kevin Willis

August 7, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

I think the Realist works for the ASG, no worries Sekou. ahahhahahhhahahahahahhaha

By Astro Joe

August 7, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Doc, I think Sekou indictaed that if we sign and trade Smith, we can only get back half of his contract value, and even better scenario for the owners. So if he signed for $12M, we would take back $6M in salaries. Obviously, it would be VERY difficult to get anything near the “basketball value” of Smith in that scenario. More likely, we would add another contract (Zaza or less likely Speedy) to bring get us in the $10M+ range. It’s a straight FUGLY situation, no matter how you slice and dice it.

By SalimFan

August 7, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

LOL@ Sekou

What I wanna know is How tha F%@&$K is Emeka Worth more than smoove huh??? What the F@#$^K has he done in his career other than be injured all of the time???? This is truly BS SAASG.

Yeah, I meant to post an article about Bibby working hard a couple of weeks ago but the Childress situation made me forget about it.

Bibby grooms Shadow Mtn. Guard

Didn’t Rondo teach him anything?? LOL

Bibby to participate in ‘Hoopfest Jamaica’

By Melvin

August 7, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

SSI, expanding of your example above. If the BASG intentions are to keep the team. Wouldn’t it be in their best interest to increase payroll which would help in devalue the networth of the company in turn would decrease the amount they will have to pay Belkin for his buyout????

Why couldn’t these savvy businessmen (BASG) seek another apprasial within the given timeframe provide by the 1st Judge (at least 2yrs ago) which would have help to resolved this divorce quicker and save them tons of money in legal fees…

By Melvin

August 7, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

SSI, expanding of your example above. If the BASG intentions are to keep the team. Wouldn’t it be in their best interest to increase payroll which would help to devalue the networth of the company in turn would decrease the amount they will have to pay Belkin for his buyout????

Why couldn’t these savvy businessmen (BASG) seek another apprasial within the given timeframe provide by the 1st Judge (at least 2yrs ago) which would have help to resolved this divorce quicker and save them tons of money in legal fees…

By chuckw/deadjournalist

August 7, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

i’m pulling a richbrave from the other day, my saying i’m commenting to say i don’t have time to comment. although we’re all just regurgitating the same dialog, i want to catch up and comment, but now isn’t that time. poor timing since sekou is active today.

alas.

doc - i did read your comment about the sales/season tickets/revenue and that’s on point with the posts last week. oh to be a fly on the wall …

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

Why is everyone calling the ASG cheap, just because they have’nt re-signed your favorite player yet? Maybe THEY DONT WANT JOSH SMITH? Ever thought of that? They were’nt too cheap to take on 30 million $ by signing Bibby’s a* last year. Were they? And how much you wanna bet Big Al gets extended before his contract ends? You guys are living in a fantasy land if you think this thing is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!

By J-rough

August 7, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Trade Smoove for Brandon Wright and Belinelli I think Bwright is a stud, and belinelli might be good, but we know we aren’t getting squat otherwise, DO the deal……

By SSI Fan

August 7, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Melvin

It is my understanding that the valuation date was the date of the disagreement which has already passed. The present value or any value in the future has no impact on how much Belkin gets.

The BASG have giiven no indication that they are savy business people. No savy business person would ever enter a buy-sell agreement which is so one sided. Belkin outsmarted the other 7 owners in getting them to agree to the buy-sell agreement.

By kgbsfinst

August 7, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

TB

I agree they cant be that broke if they are willing to take on Bibbys contract, knowing they have the Joshes this summer.

But I think a lot of it is about the money. If they just didnt want Smith, they wouldnt have offered him $9 a year.

By KeithEdmondson returns

August 7, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Reading this blog provides so many scenarios that could be going on. Hoosier - I feel your pain because this Hawks team could bring excitement that the Braves and Falcons have brought at one point. AfroDawg - too funny, and we are going to miss Chills despite his limitations and his #6 draft slot salary bracket (it isn’t his fault he was chosen in that slot!) CoolBreeze - I agree….Levenson tried to reach out to us briefly and now he wouldn’t dare because of what the Thrashers have become and what the Hawks could be heading towards. You think the ASG has gag ordered Dominique as well being a former player? VolMan - you are quite possibly in for a tough season, but you must have some serious love for this organization. I can’t understand it otherwise.
HHoops - I truly hope your scenario comes to fruition, working Smoove out to the last possible minute to concentrate on solidifying the remainder of the roster. We still need help in the frontcourt and Woody has to give the bench a chance this year.

While I don’t understand the Smoove negotiations, it has to be a problem with the ongoing litigation and matching up a new GM/coach combo. Note to Sund: 30 years in this business obviously has taught you something about negotiating in the press. I hope your offers and not personally meeting with your players during negotiations doesn’t backfire on you twice. To the ASG, as a fan, it is just hard to justify making a season ticket commitment when you are darting the issues about your promises made over the summer. Do you think you have lived up to your promises so far? I don’t feel the proactive approach here. Sekou - keep trying to uncover new angles in this negotiation and bring us those cats who are trying to get to veterans camp with this team. I would like to hear who you think will be on this roster come opening night. One comment from earlier that I disagree with: Please, please don’t suggest that ESPN or TNT televise a national game with us in Boston. We truly aren’t ready for that! Woody would have to wear that block of ice again and try more high school motiviational ploys for guys who get paid millions! Not healthy as a whole. One final breakdown: 3 salary breakdowns that Smoove could be pullng in this year: (not including the playoffs! Hey, that souvenir playoff shirt might be valuable some day!):

$12M/year equates to $146,341 per game. $9M/year that he will not play for gives him $109,756 in his pocket for 40+ minutes. That QO that we all dread that could come to reality: $3,167,882 breaks down to a MEASLY $38,632 to deal with Woody on a 82 game basis.

As Randolph Morris is probably saying about Smoove’s potential windfall: DAYUM! I want me some of that!

By I.MUS WRITE

August 7, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

J-rough…… I’d do that deal if they threw in a late 1st or 2nd. B.Wright has a nice game, he gave us sum trouble last year -I’ll admit i was wrong about him…..I though he’d be nothing more than a bench riding stick figure.

By The Truth

August 7, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

We don’t have anything factual to talk about, this is the truth. However, we can review and analyze past event that actually happened and project the outcome of the current events (with Josh) based on apparent or preceived similarity or contrast. This exercise would not yielded the truth about the current situation, but it would be food for thought.

Let’s take a trip through memory lane: Remember why Joe Johnson wanted to be a Hawk:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2120960

It was fame over money. He turned down 70M with Phoenix to make 70M in Atlanta. In Phoenix, he would have been just a role player, however, in Atlanta, he had the potenial of being the “man”. In other word, his priority was to become a superstar and win titles. His road was not easy at first (as you know), it was bumpy. He worked his way into the position he found himself.

I wonder what is Josh Smith priority? Based on the apparent situation, money seem to be the topic of conversation.

By fudd21

August 7, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

HHoops Having to pay the luxury tax has nothing to do with who the Hawks sign first. The luxury tax is 71.15 million for this season. If you go over that, the tax is dollar for dollar for every dollar you are over the tax.

Now in regards to the cap it does matter who they sign first. If they sign Josh first then they would be over the cap, which for this season is 58.6 million. Once you go over the cap, you can use the mid level exception (5.58 mil) or the bi-annual exception (1.9 mil) to sign other players. When signing your own players, you can go over the (Bird Rule)

I really don’t think it mattered this year the order we signed folks especially since all our FA signings are inexpensive and therefore would have all fit under the mid level.

By Ken Strickland

August 7, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

First, I want to say I love the enthusiasm and passion that’s always expressed on these blogs. Thanks for your imput. Now, I’ve done a lot of reading and researching the last few days trying to get a handle of what’s going on with the Hawks, and what they might be trying to accomplish.

FIRST-I took into consideration their continued efforts to sign multiple BIGS, like KBrown, RMorris and FElson. That tells me mgt might be trying to setup the old Center by committee approach that worked so well for the MJ led Bulls. It also tells me Zaza is out at the end of the season. We could possibly have 2 relatively quick, fast, DEF minded BIGS for not more than we’re paying annually for Zaza, plus Solomon.

SECONDLY-this Center by committee approach allows us to move Horford to PF. That move could save us the $11-13M, minus what we take back in a trade, we’d have to spend to resign Smoove. At seasons end, we’ll drop Bibby’s, Zaza’s and Solomon’s contracts, totalling between $19-20M. That makes it much easier, financially, to resign Marvin. That also gives us a nice financial cushion to resign JJ and Horford. Remember, we also lose Speedy’s $6M contract at the same time JJ becomes a FA.

When you consider the obvious financial restraints this franchise is operating under, that’s not a bad overall lineup going into the 09 season. PG-ALaw & Speedy, SG-JJ, REvans, maybe Richardson PF-Horford & RMorris, C-RMorris, Solomon and ?, SF-Marvin & REvans, with draft picks and other FA’s filling out the roster.

Let’s face it, dropping Bibby’s, Zaza’s and Speedy’s contracts, plus not resigning Smoove would save milliions of dollars that can be used to lock up our core players long term. I’M NOT SUGGESTING THIS IS WHAT THE SAASG HAS OR HAD IN MIND, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE HEADED THAT WAY. I’M STILL NOT CONVINCED THEY KNOW WHAT THEY’RE DOING AT THIS POINT, BUT THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING IT COULD END UP BEING A GOOD COMPROMISE BOTH TALENT WISE AND FINANCIALLY.

By ray

August 7, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

terrell, has Josh Howard been passing you that cheap stuff? LOL! He must be…What do you mean it’s not all about the money? Didn’t you more or less say it was with Childress? Changing our offkey tune, are we? Come on, man. This is business. How is it not all about the money? The offer to Josh Smith is $9 million for 5 years. If he was cool with it, they’d sign him to it, right? Or are you telling me they wouldn’t let him sign it because they don’t want him?

Astro Joe,

Notice that this FACT was conveniently skipped over by those who insisted that we can become a better team with or without Josh Smith. Funny how those demanding facts just couldn’t seem to find that one. Yeah, it’s hard to get any decent rate of return in value for Smith in a sign-and-trade scenario. And really, the best trade scenarios will not just be Josh himself. If looking for value, you trade Josh along with the attractive expiring contract that Bibby has. Then you can get more value. Or you trade Josh with Speedy. I don’t think there is a stand alone sign-and-trade deal out there that works for us as far as improving or even maintaining the talent on this roster (let along the starting lineup). No, somebody would have to go out the door along with him for there to be any worthwhile value gained in return. And even then…it can be debatable as to whether the team has improved…and for how long.

SSI Fan, some very interesting points you made. Watch out, though. If enough people agree with you, then you will be guilty of “conventional wisdom” by virtue of majority opinion. Heh, heh…

Realist, how’s life under Gearon’s desk?

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

HHops, I’ve said from the beginning, just be patient. Smoove WILL BE SIGNED. You have to sign other players before you sign restricted players. But everyone is still bashing Sund because Smoove is still unsigned. And like I said before, we’ve heard NOTHING from Smoove or his people regarding this matter.

By kgbsfinst

August 7, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

That worries me if the ASG consider Marvin a “core” player, rather than the more proven and better Smith. If we are going to win in the league, and keep the core group of players, it will probably take three players to make over $10. I just hope if it is Marvin that he really steps up his game.

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Hey Imus, I only work part-time, NIGHTS. 3 days a week. So I’ve got plenty of free-time. lol!!

By B.A.ToDa

August 7, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Gilley, if Josh signs the 1 yr then we can call it a wrap for him as a Hawk after this season (unless he plays poorly and no one wants to offer him anything). Josh would be playing for a contract, and he will be an Unrestricted Free Agent next summer so any team out there could easily pick him up. If we don’t sign him this summer what would make us think we would sign him next summer? I doubt Josh would even complete a whole year with the Hawks if he signs a 1yr, we would be forced to try and trade him just to get something in return from him. Else, we’d lose him for Nothing next summer.

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

And Imus, I like the Falcons just as much as I do the Hawks. lol!!

By kgbsfinst

August 7, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

What do you guys think Marvin will want for his next contract? That is an interesting question considering he was #2, but hasnt played anywhere near the hype. I would be shocked if he was willing to take even the deal they offered Smith ($9 mil a year). What do you guys think hes worth? And please no market value crap, I want YOUR opinion.

By keithedmundson

August 7, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

KenS - Not that I don’t scratch my head re: the ASG, but your comment about making it easier to sign Marvin doesn’t make any sense. What has Marvin done so far and you value him more than Smoove? Marvin is going to be asking for numbers at his draft position and I would be more content seeing his limited game go elsewhere than the energy that Smoove brings. We can fill the 3 slot much easier than what we have at the PF/C position now. You think Horford at PF/journeyman at the 5 will suffice as a Eastern contender? I don’t see it, but it very well could be the plan if they don’t see Smoove as a top 2 or 3 player on this team.

By Gilley

August 7, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

B.A.ToDa,

If Josh Smith truly wants to remain a Hawk like he has said, and the Hawks see his value, then the ASG would have to pay him his market value or lose him without anything in return. Also, they are not going to just randomly trade him unless they know for sure he is not re-signing with the Hawks no matter what they offer him. He would have to agree to a sign and trade this season but next season he can build off his performance and MAKE the Hawks pay him and go out of their way to do so. If they really want to keep him and he wants to stay in his hometown. Either way, at least we will get ONE MORE YEAR of happiness.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 7, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Ken,

I’m not arguing with your logic since it’s unclear whether you desire this or are just saying this is what it looks like will happen, but I disagree with either case.

Our team is not deep enough in other positions to have a center by committee approach, it would eat up too many other positions. This becomes especially important since we would still need a 3pt threat and capable power forwards and back court depth. I will grant that since this is a future approach, that we could “fill out the roster” but I refuse to take that for granted with BASG.

As far as the core of the team goes, I’m willing to wager that it comprises just two individuals- Joe and Al. Duck HAS to expand his game to 3pt if he wants to be a viable option at the 3. This is especially poignant if/when Al moves to the 4. Smoov at least gave that option(even if inconsistent). Law, our projected 1 of the future, doesnt shoot all that well at this point and I’m not going to project it will “just come”. That said just not signing Smoov to allow room for Duck and “others” seems a bit dubious to me. Again, not saying you’re advocating any of it, just addressing what was said.

RISE UP

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Ray, ypu must have misunderstood me? I was talking it ‘s not all about the $, where the ASG is concerned, not Josh Smith. I know it’s all about the $ for him.

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Ray, ypu must have misunderstood me? I was talking about it’s not all about the $, where the ASG is concerned, not Josh Smith. I know it’s all about the $ for him.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 7, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

I can’t project a value for Duck since he actually not up for two seasons and who knows what type of inflation will arise by then. Put it this way though, I’d have doled out more for Chills than Duck for this season and probably by then too- if his game doesnt expand to 3pt, dribbling, and defense.

RISE UP

By doc

August 7, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

truth ehhhh no. jj was offered 60 mil by the suns, told the suns he didnt want them to match because his feelings ere hurt in the negotiations and essentiallly said he wanted ot be top dog and make more money. it is laughable to think he came to atlanta and basg with th intention of being a champion as this rfanchise was starting over and leaving one headed into its prime if he had stayed. remember truth was he was injured as the suns faltered without him and many folks felt if he had been available they would have the horses to push everyone out of the way. truth speak truth.

before hawks fans and owners trash josh smith too much as they leave and as they did chills ‘er kirky boy, they need to read the article as jj has done the same thing as smith might chills did and somethig i pointed out last week to those doing the most jawing. to quote:

In his first extended interview about his future since free agency began Friday, Johnson said his desire to leave the Suns involves “a lot of things,” starting with contentious negotiations on a contract extension last October that broke off with sides about $5 million apart. Johnson was rankled further earlier this month when, after a breakout season for himself and the team, Phoenix offered only $60 million over six years.

Yet sources close to the situation also insist that Johnson is most unhappy with what he perceives as his standing as a “fourth wheel” behind Stoudemire, Marion and especially Nash. The native of nearby Arkansas would instantly have his own team to run in Atlanta and become a franchise face for a club teeming with inexperience.

there you have it. no desire to win the championship. stated anywhere in the equation of why jj left. and i am not a trasher of jj it is what it is. uhhh, maybe a truth?

thanks aj.

cool chuck.

realist, if you are a man get over it and man up dude, sound like a little girl. i know you can bring wise and beneficial ideas.

By Barry

August 7, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

The Hawks front office appears to not have a clue to what they want to do with the young players they drafted. These players have now matured and are starting to play nasty and now you want to trade them (i.e. Josh Smith). Stop masturbating Hawks fans minds with the perception that you want a winning team here in Atlanta yet considering trading your young stars who will make other teams great. If you trade Josh Smith, I will not be coming to a Hawk game for a while. Work something out quickly and show some appreciation for his style of play and agressiveness. Please stop managing like “LOSERS”.

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! This is a secret from a HAWK FAN. TELL EVERBODY!!!!!!!!

Love ya, Hawks.

Ringold

By Melvin

August 7, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Poll below is from REALGM site. Maybe the BASG can use this data to help them determine rather they should re-sign Josh Smith and his market value…

**Jul 30, 2008

Which player from the 2004 draft class will be more productive over the next five years?

Deng 14% Okafor 6% Iguodala 39% Josh Smith 38% Gordon 3% **

By HawksHeckler

August 7, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

The Worst owners TaG has been switched to the Dumbazz Packers with the ASG running a close second. Josh is NOT going to sign. SO FORGET IT ALREADY!! DAMN! The only thing that will make this Fiasco move forward is a S/T. So that means we are waiting on ANOTHER team to get the ball rolling. Aint gonna happen. JSmooth will play out this year for 2 million then bolt for a contender and kick out his version of Shaq’s ASG TELL ME HOW MY AZZ TASTE!! You would think that the 6 or 7 million the ASG is trying to save could be made up with SELLOUT crowds. But maybe there is something to Feb court date, i doubt it though. They dont want to overpay Smith?? What by 2 or 3 million???? Gimmie a break man. Throw some tumbleweeds and a few Buzzards in Phillips to go along with the Weasels then chain lock the doors. IMM OUTT!!!

By SalimFan

August 7, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Episode 4 of ‘Road To Redemption is out

The other parts are to the right on the side bar…..

I would offer marvin 3 years 24 milion (Max) with a team option for the fourth year……of course, Marvin can icrease or decrease that number with his production this year. Not to mentioan if guys like Luke Jackson and Thomas Gardner step up and become key rotational players, Marvin could become expendable by the end of the season.

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Ray, I think you’re starting to disagree with me, regardless of the comment. That’s probably why you misunderstood what I was saying. lol!!

By B.A.ToDa

August 7, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Ken Strickland so our core is JJ, Horford, and Marvin? If that’s the case, we’re gonna really need Marvin to step up tremendosly this coming year. And hopefully Horford will become, i guess the pest PF in the league, the way you guys saying the experts talk how great Horford will be once he moves to PF.

By kgbsfinst

August 7, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

I would say that 3/24 would be a good price, I dont know if he would like that, but so far, he hasnt proved to be worth more. Also, I dont know if someone said this before, but this is Marvins last year on his deal, it isnt 2 more years.

By B.A.ToDa

August 7, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

HawksHeckler I always ask myself the exact same thing…

By ray

August 7, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Terrell, no I understood you just fine. I’m just pokin’ at ya with a stick. No harm or disagreement meant.

Heyyyyy…you only work 3 nights a week? That’s not fair, I wish I could do that! No, wait. I can’t do that. Can’t be left that long to my own devices! Lol!

By ray

August 7, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

B.A.toDa, even Woody doesn’t see Marvin as part of that core. He said as much when he said that Marvin needed to get to that level where he is a consistent scoring threat. And he mentioned Joe Johnson and Josh Smith as the two guys where are at that level.

Melvin, Hah! They’d be doing good to listen to the polls the AJC posts! LOL!

terrell, seriously though: how can it not be all about the money with the ASG? They’re businessmen. I’m not trying to disagree for the sake of disagreeing, but tell me which part of anything isn’t money related for them? The litigation situation? The Josh Smith situation? What used to be the Childress situation? How many FAs we’ve signed (and for how much they were signed)? Which one?

By ray

August 7, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Doc, preach it, preach it, preach it. Meanwhile, awaiting word on that from the so-called camp 2 denizens. So far it’s been a big silence. Of course, it is hard to talk when you’re choking on your own words. One thing’s for sure: you’re the only one pointing out the how/why of JJ’s arrival here, so it can’t be considered conventional wisdom, now can it? Or will it be labeled as such because I agree with you? Chuckle….

By Joshua

August 7, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Atlanta spirit llc. and Belkin need to go we need another Ted Turner type of owner who will spend whatever to put a title contender in Phillips . I’d say try and trade Smith to Denver for Melo or Clippers for Kaman .

By B.A.ToDa

August 7, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

I guess it’ll be next summer before we get another “Speedy Claxton” signing. I still can’t believe we threw that kind of many to him… of all people. No disrespect to Speedy tho. I just was never fond of that decision.

Good lookin ray. I understand that Marvin shouldn’t be considered in our “core” but i guess others don’t. Now i do understand he should be considered in our “core 3” if we somehow lose Josh Smith and Bibby. But Marvin’s gonna have to step up HUGE to get into that group. I mean, Marvin’s gonna have to play so good this year (considering we lose Smith) that he’ll make us forget about Smith.

By Melvin

August 7, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Doc to expand on your point. Didn’t the BASG front load JJ contract to meet the minimum salary requirements and to allow them salary cap space to sign/resign FA in the future??? I guess those plans went out the window.

Ray, the more I think about it. I’m willing to bet had BK was still the GM that both Joshes would have been Hawks going into the next season along with David Andersen. Just my hunch, but I know you’re not a BK fan….heh,heh

By doc

August 7, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

melvin … yup big time, so they would have more money to spend now and discourage the suns from matching. also meant they didnt have to get any more players of non worth for their bench and waste money which they will be at risk for if thy dont sign j msith.

By Realist

August 7, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Sekou, way to redirect a valid point by just telling me to go away. That’s a good tactic for a journalist — tell his readers to go kick rocks.

And for those of you who think I am an ASG supporter: Wow. Just wow. Those guys could be the worst ownership group in all of pro sports. Just because I don’t think they should have paid Childress $11M/year to match Olympiakos, nor should they pay Smith $11M/year because his agent says so, doesn’t mean I think they have a clue.

As I have said before, any group that would hire Billy Knight, much less keep him on board for so long (and then laud him for his ability to turn a 32-win franchise into a 37-win franchise in just FIVE SHORT YEARS) is composed of incredibly poor basketball decision-makers.

Gearon? Isn’t he that guy who claimed on the radio after the Bibby acquisition that “all the pieces are in place” for the Hawks to be a contender? Even if they kept Childress and Smith, they weren’t a contender… they were a 37-win team that aspired to be the No. 6 or No. 7 seed next year. Gearon is simply the mouthpiece of a large group that doesn’t have a clue between them.

By Ken Strickland

August 7, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

BY #21-I don’t understand the negative attitudes toward Marvin, nor do I understand the obsession with the 3pt shot. Granted, it is a viable weapon, but it’s often overrated. First, Marvin has contributed quite well for a 4th option, behind JJ, Bibby and Smoove. Consider this: REvans is a very good 3pt shooter who took 209 3pt shots and had a 3pt shooting % of .381. Marvin took 10 and made only 1. Yet, Marvin went to the FT line 409 times and had a .822 percentage. REvans took only 83 FT’s for a .711 percentage. His low FT attempts aren’t unusual for players who rely on outside shooting to score. Marvin went to the FT line because lhe was active, went to the basket and someone fouled him, which provides a double benefit.

After all, Jsmith has 3pt range, but how often do we find ourselves cringing and/or complaining when he takes them. The Hawks and Marvin would do better improving their shooting percentage, especially Smoove, more than their shooting range. A core players valued should be based on what he does for the team, not what he can or can’t do individually. We could spend the entire day discussing the many and obvious limitations of players like Bruce Bowen, Michael Cooper, Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, etc. But what they did for their respective teams made it possible for them to win championships. They were core players despite their limitations. Some of them were not only unable to shoot 3 pointers, they were unable to shoot period.

Some of you are so bent on being critical of Marvin, you fail to realize this was only his 1st full season as a starter. Just as he got better as the season went on, he’ll get better with more experience. There’s no magical concept that says a player’s draft position should automatically dictate his immediate output. If Marvin’s lofty #2 draft position dictates he should contribute more, then Smoove’s #17 position should dictate he contribute less. You take what you get, regardless of draft position, and hope it’s enough to help you win. Would you rather have the production of KBrown, the #1 overall pick in his draft, or Marvins overall production at #2?

ABogat and Marvin were drafted 1,2 in the same draft. They played about the same mins last yr. And even though Bogat was a primary OFF option, their overall numbers weren’t that far apart. Marvin isn’t a failure. The only failure is in the ability of some to appreciate the overall development and contributions he’s made under often trying circumstances.

By B.A.ToDa

August 7, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

People gotta understand that we were the youngest team in the playoffs last year. And i know we were somewhere in the top 3-5 youngest teams in the league. So people need to stop with us being a “only 37 win team”. So what? We made the playoffs, we came close to a upset, and we could of started this season off with the hype from the end of last season. All we needed was maybe 1 or 2 more pieces- not to win a championship but to have a .500 record. Some of us have too high of goals for the hawks. All i want 1st is a .500+ team for once. If there was some way to keep that same squad we had last year (with our new additions) i’d say this would be the year to realize the full potential of this group of players before breaking us up. But from the looks of it, we’ll probably start this team looking back at last year at how good that “37 team was” compared to this coming year team. That’s if, of course, we get nothing out of Smith/lose him.

Realist I see what you’re saying about from a 32 team to a 37 team in 5 years. lol kind of funny when you look at it like that. But that’s the business.

And Sekou is just a real dude.

By B.A.ToDa

August 7, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Good comment Ken Strickland. And i believe Marvin would step up even more if Smith is lost from this team. Plus he’ll get more touches. I also believe that him seeing all the guys picked behind him getting contract extensions will motivate Marvin to prove to this organization and some of the fans why exactly we picked him at #2. Cause lets face it, there is no kind of talk what so ever for a contract extension for Marvin right now. And Paul, Williams, and Bogot already got theirs. It’s time for Marvin to show up and get his. And i even will acknowledge that Marvin is not a bust and has been putting up good numbers. Didn’t he average like 15-16pts a game this year (correct me if i’m wrong)?

By SalimFan

August 7, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Amen, Ken.

By Melvin

August 7, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

BA, are we wrong as fans to want our team to win a championship? Shouldn’t it be the team/organization goal to win the championship every year? Boston Celtics organization didn’t accept a team was going to be the doormats anymore at the end of 06-07 season. They decide that they were going after the Title and made the necessary moves to do so within one summer. So why should we expect slow progress (in the Hawks case, years/decades) in efforts to win a championship here in the ATL? Why should we as the FANS expect anything less than to be CHAMPS every year…

By B.A.ToDa

August 7, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Cause it’s the hawks and i’m just being realistic. That Boston scenario never happened before in league history, and besides… they’re Boston.

Don’t think what I said means i don’t want my hawks to win a championship. It just looks like we may be headed backwards than forward after such a great ending last season. But i’m not gonna speak too soon. Imma wait to see what happens with the outcome of the Smith situation.

And Melvin i’m with you, why should us fans expect a “slow process”? How many years did it take us just to make an appearance in the playoffs again?

By B.A.ToDa

August 7, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Plus this organization doesn’t seem to have an urgency to want to win consistently and make it to the Finals one year. Unlike the Hawks, Boston has a huge history and their fans are impatient… they make changes for the good. Some time i just don’t know if these guys running the Hawks even care.

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Yeah Ray, 3 nights. lol! I worked for Flexible Products Co FOR 1O yrs, who had a profit sharing program(ESOP). They were bought out by Dow Chemical. I worked for Dow for a while, but they finally did away with our dept. I collected my ESOP from Flexible, my wife completed dental school, and after that, I found a partime gig. Hopefully it’ll stay that way. lol!! My life story. lol!! btw, hwas anyone heard anything else about Elson? Did he sign with the Bucks.

By adam

August 7, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

we suck a fat f*** dick.. no nat’ly televised games in 6 years.. even a game 7 series against the champs can’t make either of the following happen— 1) our ownership believing that if they spend more money, they’ll get better players, win, and make money (this is how teams make money in the nba.. save charlotte and the clippers)

2) our players wanting to stay in atlanta because they think it’s a good place to play

We’re made 2 good draft picks in the last 5 years (josh and josh) and this time next year neither will be a hawk.. (gunshot to the head)

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Ray, what I’m saying is there could be other reasons why they have’nt signed him. Maybe they just dont think he’s WORTH MORE THAN 9 million $ a year to the HAWKS? Maybe they see something better in a sign and trade,

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Ray, what I’m saying is there could be other reasons why they have’nt signed him. Maybe they just dont think he’s WORTH MORE THAN 9 million $ a year to the HAWKS? Maybe they see something better in a sign and trade, LIKE OTHER PIECES TO THE PUZZLE, not just saving a couple of mill. It for sure is’nt because they’re broke.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 7, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Believe it or not, I wasn’t trying to unearth the Duck v Smoov arguement. It just has to do with a particular player’s skillset in relation to the rest of the team’s. Since you did seem to bite the apple however….

I’m not saying Duck should be this or that based on draft position or even who was drafted around him. He didnt draft himself. I’m simply stating that he provides little else but a streaky jumpshot. Does he get to the line, most assureadly, but how many of those buckets are +1’s (ability to finish is important)? His game is limited right now, though he is developing. Let’s not play the “first full season as a starter”; it doesnt address the fact he has enough min/games under his belt to render a judgement on his ability. Smoov and Duck are the same age, lest we forget.

Those other players you mention btw all excel at something besides what they are known for btw: Bruce Bowen (defense, baseline 3%), Michael Cooper(defense, BB IQ), Ben Wallace(Rbds and blocks), Dennis Rodman(Rbds and defense/hustle). All but Bowen a DPOY. Duck excels at that level how again? And that pertains to any aspect of basketball….?

My larger point was just that Duck at the 3 with the lineup “of the future” would do us a disservice because teams would again key on Joe and we wouldnt be able to space the floor to let Al operate. He needs to expand his game (on both ends) in order to merit some “automatic extension” created by Smoov’s departure. Simply put. Smoov at the 3 is a better option (even at 3 mil more a seaon give/take) than Duck(particularly where he’s at now in his game) at the 3 for what he brings in totality with the rest of the team.

RISE UP

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Ken, it’s M.Evans for Mauruce, not R.Evans for Reggie. Come on man. You know your team better than that. lol

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Ken, it’s M.Evans for Maurice, not R.Evans for Reggie. Come on man. You know your team better than that. lol

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 7, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

I’m not calling Duck a bust, I’m saying his game is very limited right now and with all this talk of extensions etc, he would not deserve one exceeding what he is scheduled to make in his last year (maybe even this year). I actually hope he developes, genuinely, but I’m not as sanguine as everyone else that “he’ll be motivated by other contracts, more touches, etc”. It’s possible, but I gotta see more than what I’ve seen.

There have been plenty of stretches of games where it was Duck and Joe out there with maybe Chills and some other filler. Does Duck produce at these spots- not usually. He usually does damage early then a bucket here/there til the buzzer sounds. What is needed of somebody to be a “player” is the ability to take over a game for a stretch- say when a Joe is out [almost never happens] or is off his game. This is something (save the @ Seattle game) he has yet to show he can do. That concerns me. And dont’ give me the whole % issue, as has been stated, he shot a whopping .5% points better than Smoov with all his errant 3 pointers. He also shot the ball only 2.5 less times a game, that means he’d have to hit 1.5 of those shots (re:exceed his actual shooting percentage) to catch Smoov in terms of PPG.

The sad part is that I can’t even believe I’m entertaining the comparison because though it’s not being issued directly, the latent claim is that Duck will be a better investment in a year than Smoov is now- which I wholeheartidly disagree with.

RISE UP

By SalimFan

August 7, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

The real comparison is Duck Vs. Mo Evans.

Evans will start the first game of the season. Honestly Evans is can do just about everything on the floor… Marvin comes off the bench and does his FT thing….everybodys happy…

Depending on who our opponet is, Evans and Johnson can alternate between the SG and SF spots.

By Peter

August 7, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Looks like another deal they cannot close on…….Francisco Elson is going to the Bucks

By RIP

August 7, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

Trade Josh Smith to Dallas for Josh Howard. Yeah he smokes weed, but he shows up for playoff games. He plays great perimeter defense, gets a ton of steals, has a good jumper. His game does not depend on dunks and weakside blocks.

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Dont give up so soon, Peter. He has’nt signed on the dotted line yet.

By NUNNA YO BIzzNEz

August 7, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

yo… All we need is to get josh smith back,And with the add ons of,hunter,bennett,gardner,and pickney,this will be the deepest hawks team in 12 years..10-13 deep..not since we had malone,theus,hastings and others…

we will have a deep roster of 6 guards.. bibby-johnson law-stoudamire bennett-gardner.. And if law and salim don’t watch out,bennett and gardner will be on the 2nd team.. MARK MY WORDS YALL!!!!

HUNTER-PICKNEY-J.RICHARDSON,ALL HAVE GAME TO BE ON THE NEXT LEVEL… ODD MEN OUT OF THIS TEAM ARE,S.JONES-zsa zsa-mario west-….

WIT RICK SUND AT THE HELM,THE HAWKS ARE 4 REAL!!!!

By The Truth

August 7, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

Hey Doc

Those comments you made regarding JJ sign-and-trade deal are unnecessary. You sound like a wife defending her husband (in this case, Josh Smith)

I provided you a link, read it before you go off on a tangent. In fact the statement is true. He turn down 70M from the Suns was based on the their matching option that they pronouce. The Hawks offered 70M and they were wiiling to match. The part of the statement about him coming to Atlanta to win titles maybe questioned as being a little over the top (and I’ll accept that criticism). But you are being really nit-picking over that.

Why:

It is my believe that most NBA players play the game with the expectation of winning titles, no matter what team they are on. It is not outrageous to think that JJ came to Atlanta with expectation to win titles. I know that this part may not be the truth, but this is my paradigm. Maybe you don’t remember, but at the time MJ came to the Bulls, that team was another joke of the NBA. He kept believing and then the fan started to believe. Look what happened. You see, all active NBA players play with that believe. That is how they survive the cut. They play with passsion and conviction. Only the creme rises to the top. Maybe us fan don’t give these players enough credit.

So, if you don’t believe JJ plays with that passsion and conviction to win titles (whether he short or not is not the point), than maybe you are a bigger hater of JJ than you realize

By Ken Strickland

August 7, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

BY 21-Marvin scores early because he’s given more opportunities early. But consider this. When it’s late in the gm, Marvin’s the 4th option, our OFF consists mainly of isolations and pick and rolls featuring JJ, Bibby or Smoove., not Marvin. What else do you expect Marvin to do but disappear from time to time when the ball is being dominated by the 3 primary players(JJ, Bibby or Smoove) and he’s the 4th option? He!!, even MJ and Kobe would disappear in our OFF if they didn’t get to touch the ball for long stretches at a time.

Tell me, do you think Detroits Rip Hamilton would be an Allstar if they hadn’t designed an OFF that runs him off a series of picks to free him for his deadly midrange jumper? Do you think he’d be as effective as Marvin if he was the 4th option in our OFF? If we went to Marvin in those situations, he’d deliver.

If we succeed in resigning Smoove, we’ll supprise a lot of people this yr. The return of an improved Marvin, Smoove, Horford, Bibby, Acie, and the addition of Speedy along with improved attitudes and confidence, will make a tremendous difference in this yrs team. You also mentioned how the center by committee won’t work, but I beg to differ. The Spurs have done quite well since the days of the Admiral using journeyman centers. Horford at PF is no TDuncan, but he’d certainly get the job done. Man, I’m tired of this. I’ll be glad when we resign or trade Smoove so we can either rejoice or start healing.

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

Nunna yo bizznez, Stoudamire is unrestricted. He’s outta here.

By terrell barron

August 7, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

And I do beleive that Zaza will be here, unless he’s involved in a sign-and-trade with Smith.

By ray

August 7, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Melvin, I was no BK fan, but I am still willing to concede your point. I also think that this is why Billy left. Why stay at a job when your bosses won’t let you do your job? I tell you what I blame BK for: draft picks. I mean, the dude even tried to can Woody, which would’ve been his best move since he got here. Gearon and crew screwed that pooch, too. A-holes.

Realist, if that’s the way you really feel about the ASG, then I read you wrong and I apologize. Seriously. And not because we agree on how we see the ASG. Seriously. I just read you wrong.

As for Sekou, he probably feels like you don’t like him or the blog (uhhh…you’ve kind of given that indication to be honest). And if you felt that way, then why stick around? I figure it’s an honest question. I mean, if somebody is constantly taking shots at you, do you tell them to come closer so they can take a better shot? I’m just sayin’. And there’s no reason for him to play by the rules you think he should play by. I’m just sayin’…

On the Josh Smith issue. Is that what his agent is asking for? $11 million/year? How’d you find that out? All I’ve been hearing is that he wants a max contract. And I’ll I’m hearing that from is bloggers…and sportswriters who throw numbers out there just for the sake of it. No, I don’t believe Smith should be paid anything just because his agent says so, but that’s a huge oversimplification. Sports agents are part of the business. I figure we should pay him 11 a year because he’s worth it and we don’t seem to be able to do better than what we have right now. And I’ll say what I’ve always said: If we can get better as a team for the long stretch by trading Josh Smith, then that’s what we should do. But if we can’t….pay the man what he’s worth.

One other thing. I still don’t get where this was about paying Childress 10 or 11 million a year. That ain’t what it’s about. It would be one thing if he had been made an offer at all, but he wasn’t made an offer at all. Because of this, he and his agents sought out other possibilities. He found out that those other possibilities were actually seeking him out. All of the sudden, here’s the wonderful offer. Then, all of the sudden this “offer” from the Hawks surfaces right after that (strange timing, don’t ya think?). And in the fog of that smokescreen cast by Sund and whoever…people began to think that Chill wanted the kind of money all along Olympiakos was offering. Suddenly, after 4 years of self-less play and a sterling character…he’s this awful, greedy, evil player. Well congrats, you just breathed the ASG magic dust. Sneeze and it will come out. Wipe your eyes and see the truth. But like so many say, dude is gone and we’re moving on. The problem was never the player.

No, the problem is still here and it is the ASG.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 7, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

I agree Truth. For most players to excel in the NBA, there has to be an inherent belief that they can, coupled with enough complimentary talent, win a title- this is particularly true when a player has just had a “breakout” year and is young enough to endure the roster construction capable of contending. Joe knew what this was when he arrived, but with a vision, presumeably, laid forth and a couple pieces seemingly in place for a while he took a leap. I can’t blame him- in fact I thank him in this particular instance.

What fans hate to come to grips with is that it’s not all about winning chips. Their job is to play basketball to earn a living. Their reward may be All-star teams, post-season accolades, or even rings. Is it what they want, sure, but what they must have is the $. Call it megalomania, but for the 30 teams out there, someone on all 30 teams has to believe that they are either in contention or one/two pieces away from contention. That said, why not be dualy compensated while you work toward your goal by performing your job.

Barkley has said it before, he’d rather have his career, than Robert Horry (I believe was the example). Who among us would disagree?

RISE UP

By ray

August 7, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

The Truth,

I realize this is not my conversation so to speak, but you’re missing something. First, could you post that link that proves that Phoenix was offering JJ $70 million? I never saw that and would like to.

Second, this has much less to do with Josh Smith than you think, and more to do with Childress and the way he has been characterized by some. In fact, if you read the initial post by Doc on that subject, you’d know this. He actually posted it a blog or two ago. I’m guessing you didn’t see that one. This one was only a far echo of it, with less detail. It makes for interesting reading. Perhaps he can go back and find it, then re-post it for you if you’re at all interested.

Third, here’s a fact and true statement or two, with a question attached. Michael Jordan was drafted by Chicago. He didn’t just decide to go there, so your analogy doesn’t fit. But your point about the will to win is certainly valid. Also, Joe Johnson was on a team that nearly won it all. Atlanta was a team that was clearly on the rebuild. You say the Suns were offering JJ 70 million to stay in Phoenix. Atlanta offered the same. Tell me WHY JJ would take the SAME amount of money to go to a team with a far less chance of getting into the playoffs, let alone winning it all. Think about it a bit harder, because that is Doc’s point. Trading the chance to win big for the chance to….what…win 13 games? Then 26? Then 31/32? Then 37? JJ didn’t know the losing would be this bad, but he had to know it wouldn’t be nearly what he had in Phoenix. Now he’s hollering for veterans, which he had plenty of around him in Phoenix! I have my own idea of why he did what he did, but I’m interested in yours, if you have an answer.

Finally, you’re off-base with the idea of hatin’ on JJ. Are you kidding?! We’re glad he’s here! I know I’ve said so, and I know Doc has said so. But that has nothing to do with why he wanted to be here, now does it?

By ray

August 7, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

SalimFan, good point. That’s the opportunity and why I like the Mo Evans signing. There’s two tricks to this, though: Woody grasping the concept and taking advantage of mismatches (and recognizing them), and JJ being willing to slide to the 3 when it suits the team best. I have hopes there, though, because Evans is a veteran. That should make both Woody and JJ happy.

Ken, with or without Josh Smith, we need for Marvin to seriously expand and hone his offensive game and become better on defense. As for the gameplan design, you KNOW I’m feelin’ ya on that one. I don’t have any more confidence in Woody than you do….

I wouldn’t put the pressure of 20 points per game on Marvin. He doesn’t seem to respond as well to pressure (lack of aggression doesn’t help). I’d look for him to give us 17 a night. But it needs to be consistent and from more than just midrange jumpshots. If he drives more, he’ll get to the free throw line more, and he’s pretty good from the charity stripe.

What will help is Horford’s development on offense. Of course, it would help if somebody would include him in the offensive scheme….

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

August 7, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Ken, this does begin to a bit of a Barack/Hilary feel to it (no bother to assign roles. Ha).

Quickly, the spurs C approach works because they have another C at the PF(the best PF of all-time no less). It worked for the Bulls due to #23 and even they eventually got Longley for their great seasons. We don’t have the roster to support a C by committee was my point.

Just to clarify, clearly coaching has a lot to do with it- plays called, etc. I’m just saying that Duck has yet to show much cause for plays to be run for him. If his jumper is falling, then “sure”, but he is not the shooter that Rip is, can be at times, but not consistently. Duck needs to take the opportunity at times, not just when it’s given. Smoov does it, Bibby does it, it goes back to belief in ability. Obviously it needs to be reigned in /checked at times, but you have to assert yourself to say I’m going to TAKE the touches because I will MAKE them. If it’s not in his make-up to do that, then it might not be in his make-up to be anything better than a 3rd or 4th option in an offense. It is within that context that I caution this “auto-matic, core player extension” talk. Solid player, but what’s the worth in $; I think we already know in Euros.

RISE UP

By ray

August 7, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

#21=top 50,

I agree with the concept in and of itself. I just acknowledge that there is more to it. JJ has the drive and the passion. He made the all-star team while he was here. Nobody has said they were sorry he came. But he didn’t just come to get paid. He came to be “THE MAN”, which he was never going to be in Phoenix (that spot was currently crowded by the likes of Stoudamire, Nash, and Marion). I’m glad he came, too.

You have to understand, this is not bashing him for what he did by any means. It is a correlation between what Childress did and what JJ did. Again, ask yourself why JJ left a great winning situation (just judging the greatness by the consistent playoff position year to year and the 50+ win seasons), and went to a losing situation? And why did Childress leave here? Was it only the money for both guys, or was it the need to feel or be something more than what they felt like they were? Childress didn’t feel wanted. JJ probably didn’t feel wanted enough, or he might have stayed (and we’d be screwed much worse than we are now).

But I digress…this is just about the similarities between Josh’s exodus and JJ’s. It’s not the same situation, but the similarities are there.

By ray

August 7, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

#21=top50, excellent point on Marvin. I continue to hope that he is more, but you could be right: we might be seeing what he is. Who knows, but this team can ill-afford to find out the hard way….

By ray

August 7, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Of course, JJ has NOT received all that I’m sure he was promised. I’m certain Billy didn’t tell him “Hey dude, we’re going to bring you in so you can be our main guy…but we’re going to surround you with young swingmen and the crappiest veterans we can find. Good luck, and get used to the ISO. Oh yeah, and Woody’s probably going to play you at least 40 minutes a game. Playoffs? Maybe if we’re really lucky in a few years. Welcome to the team.”

No, the sales pitch had to be much, much better than that. What worries me is that if this year goes badly, he’s gone. Why stay? You give this organization 5 or so of your best years and this is all you get? If you believe JJ has the passion, will, and drive to win (and I certainly do), then get used to the idea of him opting out if things go badly this year. After all, he’s already heard the empty promises before. He can see through the smokescreen. What will anybody be able to tell him that would convince him things are quickly on the rise?

By AfroDawg

August 7, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

If every Hawk’s player went out and played like it was “Shirts and Skins, deucing it off until the loser went home, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Smith is good, damn good, but he and his team mates need to reach back for something extra. As a fan, and an old school player, I’d show up every night for $32.00 a game if I could unleash my sweet jumper from deep in the right corner again——heck I’d do it for free!

By MannyT

August 7, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Ando said it awhile back. We are deep into Groundhog Day, the movie.

I am finding other things to do with my time because, the ASGs negotiation style is sucking the life force out of my interest in the team.

I am really looking forward to the Olympics. I’ve got more interest in that than ever before.

I think Travis asked about some acronyms on the prior blog. At this rate, I might put together a blog-tionary this month.

doc Trades with Josh would involve base year compensation rules. In a nutshell, for any trade that the Hawks did with Josh until June 30, 2009, his value to our side would be 1/2 of the value of the first year of that contract. If he signed a deal that started at 10 mil in year 1 and went up, it would look like 5 mil to the Hawks in a trade, but 10 mil to the other team. It gets messy because salaries have to be close (within 125% + 100k), but you are essentially using 2 dofferent values for the same player in a trade.

HHoops Luxury tax is all about your total salaries at the end of the regular season. You could start the season with the Knicks roster. If you can dump enough contracts by tax time, then you do not have to write a welfare check to the rich.

Sekou Per the title of this deal, if Gearon snaps while on the stand of the ASG divorce, might we get the inside scoop as to why we could not handle the truth?;-) I have not checked out the content, but you cracked me up in that other response. In tribute, this link is for your efforts to keep it real(ist)! Kick Rocks Maybe they’ll become yuor blog house band. LOL

In the modern day 3d encyclopedia, they are getting holographic images of the ASG to put in the How to Lose at Sports Public Relations.

There is nothing new, just old PAIN. Each week that goes by, Donald Sterling sends the ASG a thank you note.

By MannyT

August 7, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

HOW TO SELL TICKETS WHEN YOU SEND OUT THE WRONG PUBLIC MESSAGES TO YOUR SPORTS FANS Chapter 1.

Ticket Office (TO): Hi there ma’am. Are you a basketball fan?

Customer 1: Why, yes I am.

TO: Please keep us in mind when the regular season starts. We will have lots of seats and specials available for you to see your favorite NBA players when they come to Atlanta. Bye for now.

TO: Hi there sir. Are you a basketball fan?

Customer 2: Not really.

TO: Great! We would like to introduce you to a new program. We are giving away t-shirts if you sign up for a new fitness program at Philips Arena. For a small contribution of $10 a visit, you will get to come into the arena and experience a better mall walking program than any other in Atlanta.

Customer 2: How does it work?

TO: We will send you a book of exercise tickets that you will use from October through April. We will get you in shape for the summer beach season. No walking outside in the cold. We will even have other walkers to cheer you on and help you achieve your fitness goals. We typically exercise in the evenings for 2-3 hours about 7 times a month for 1/2 a year.

We can promise you the best workout. He plan to stop the elevators and escalators so you can get the most out of your exercise program. We will even throw in a discount card so you can get workout gear at below market prices from our workout stores around the arena.

Customer 2: What if I am not sure that a 6 month commitment is for me?

TO: Sir, if you want to get that true fitness package, you need the full season package. We have others, but they won’t do as much for you. There is nothing like the ASG full season fitness packages. If you prefer to workout in a warmer building, we offer you the Hawks package, but if a cooler building is your style, we have a Thrasher package as well. If you truly want the best health, get both. I can promise you that this is the best way for me to keep my job, er, keep you jogging all year long. Now let me get your credit card info…

Fitness and PAIN sometimes go together!

By Melvin

August 7, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

* SSI Fan * In response to your 11:34am comment. I think the BASG are at a point of no return with this team. They have no choice but to purchase this team from Belkin. If it was their intentions of saving money than they should have let Belkin bought them out 2 yrs ago. The longer they own this team the more money they will have to invest (payroll,daily operations,etc) and they still have to buy Belkin out. Seems to me that the BASG are force to buy Belkin out in Febraury and try to recoup their money and make a profit with this company going forward. They could have increase the payroll tremendously by resigning the Joshes, David Andersen and other FA’s. Only to let Belkin buy them out and pickup the tab they left behind while telling him to kiss their butts on the way out the door.

As for the Josh Smith situation, again, the longer the BASG takes to resolved this matter. The more leverage they will lose. The pressure is on them to either resign or S/T Josh before training camp if they want to get the most value for him. If they allow him to play for the QO this season, they run the risk of losing him at the end of the season and they will not be able to trade him during the season and get full value in return b/c his QO is only 3 mil….

BASG Procrastination = PAIN

By HHoops

August 7, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Manny T

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and understanding of the NBA rules. We’ve been missing you on here.

Question-Am I correct in saying that the Hawks would not have to pay any luxury tax @ the end of the season if they went over the soft cap (58.6 M) because they signed their own free agent? Also, am I correct in saying that they would have to pay the luxury tax @ the end of the season if they went over the soft cap because they were signing other teams FA’s after they signed their own FA’s? (Both questions are assuming that the Hawks were still over the soft cap @ the end of the season) Thanks!

By BIGDOG

August 7, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Trade JJ keep Smith he’s young with a young team .JJ is a firehead who takes to many shots and doesn’t share the ball aka Barron Davis and wonder why he isn’t in the finals .This is a team sport and until he realizes ii then they will continue to lose because they only have to focus on him because he won’t pass the ball.JJ and Bibby move out the way its time for the young guns to do their thing.Law at point and trade JJ for a consistent team player who will get some wins.Woodson he’s not the only player in ATL Utilize what you have.Look at all the talent that went overseas after dealing with Hawks management.They really could use the players they have rights to but won’t kick out the bucks.Arthur Blank please come Save the Hawks for Puff Daddy Or Dupree save ATL

By NUNNA YO BIzzNEz

August 7, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

HUNTER,BENNETT,GARDNER,J.RICHARDSON WILL MAKE THIS TEAM AT LEAST 9-12 DEEP YALL..

PATRULLA,JONES,M.WILLIAMS,M.WEST,WILL ALL BE GONE..

WE WILL HAVE THE DEEPEST BACKCOURT COMBO IN THE NBA.. BIBBY-JOHNSON LAW-STOUDIMIRE BENNETT-GARDNER.. DATS RIGHT,WE WILL HAVE 3PG’S,AND 3SG’S YALL..

UP FRONT WITH THE ADDITIONS OF MORRIS,EVANS,PINKNEY,HUNTER,J.RICHARDSON,TO GO ALONG WITH J-SMOOVE AND HORFORD,WATCH OUT!!!

WE WILL BE A HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN WE WERE EVEN WITH J-CHILL..AND I LOVE J-CHILL..BUT THIS TEAM WILL BE DEEPER,MORE TALENTED,AND WILL BE HARD TO BEAT..

BETTER DEFENSE..BETTER OFFENSE..IN ‘08-‘09!!!!

RD 3 LOSERS,OR NBA TITLE WINNERS.. THIS IS GONNNA BE A FUN YEAR YALL!!!!!

By ray

August 7, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

SalimFan, looks like the Bobcats picked up ya boy Shannon Brown.

By MannyT

August 7, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

HHoops The post from fudd21 was correct.

The salary or soft cap has no effect on luxury tax regardless of who you sign. It is that luxury cap that triggers payments from your team to the league. Some of this money trickles down to the owners who kept their teams under the luxury cap.

If your team total player salaries are over 71.15 mil at the end of this season, write a check. Eight teams including Denver had to pony up in July 2008. That likely factored into their magic beans deal to give away Marcus Camby.

Order of signing matters. Pretend that Philly inked Iggy to a deal that started at 9 mil in year 1 and went up with 10% raises. If they did that first (or the Lou Williams deal), they could not have signed Elton Brand to that big contract. If they do the Iggy deal now, it fits because of Iggy’s Bird rights. If the amount of Iggy’s deal takes Philly over the 71.15 mil, get ready to write that luxury check next July.

If you are over the soft cap, you get free agents via the MLE or sign & trade. That’s why you hear that Memphis is the only team with cap space right now to make a run at a RFA. (Philly, Golden State and LA Clippers had cap space, but they were the prime buyers in the July shopping spree.)

Hope this helps your fiscal CRAP! (CRAP = Campaign for Responsible Athletic Professionals)

By doc

August 7, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

truth go back and read your own article. jj was miffed he was “only” offered 5 mil more than the preceeding offer. therefore he was offfered 55 mil going into his breakout season and then got offered “only” 60 mil (incidentally less than j smith) which he turned down and then got the offer from the hawks for 70 mil. he then told the suns and sarver not to match because he was done, his feelings were hurt and that he wanted out because he didnt want to be the fourth wheel in town. NO where was there mention of getting a championship with atlanta as one of his reasons he didnt want them to match. no way he could have said that with a straight face.

dude, i am representing facts or truths and it is as much to counter folks that trashed chills and for which i gave this same argument last week and as a preemptive to folks wanting to say the same things about smith if he leaves while glorifying our own jj again whom i like. i am only for straight talk. if you cant take it fine get out of the kitchen and drop the false handle of truth. simple stuff. not wanting or trying to be anyone’s mother as i have enough children to father as it is and patients to care for.

honestly, after reading your points and then the article i couldnt see what your point or correlation was to the facts expressed in the article was and really had to point out how TRUTHLESS the notion that jj was coming here to win a championship. every last player will tell you he wants a championship but before that comes thed money and accolades after knowing you belong in the nba. sund rules from 680 fan interview. the ring comment was just plain ludicrous and had to call you on it which you owned up to, cool.

if you want to be the truth then stick to the truth. that one was just way too easy to see through. you need some more cred dude, try again.

poor analogy to MJ as well. he was drafted and his impact was made in a very different era of collective bargaining. early on he got a first rate coach to put it together. so he got both and is what labron is hoping for. look, jj CHOSE to leave a champion and get money rather than stick around and lick his wounds of being hurt because his initial offer and second offers were really much less than j smith has gotten though he is second on the totem pole whereas jj was fourth. that was also an argument why the suns were considered stupid for even considering matching with some shouting it was a bluff all along. the offer some say was part of pulling chains to ultimately undermine the close knit group (untruth) and pulled it over on the asg when they argued over one or two draft picks.

manny t there is not other way to stay sharp without continuing these trite discussions, we have to somehow stay sharp for the upcoming season and this is our off season to train. heh heh some come back sharper than others and some continue to hold down the fort. so groundhog day it is.

finally next year will mark a time jj can opt out of his contract with the hawks. do we want to see him go ?… no do you think he wont with things are shaping up if this team falters? … uh no. i imagine he is out of here quickly for a championship as he bnow has the money and notoriety (also a sund rule of righteous nba progresssion). i dont you can blow the same smoke at him to inhale like they did three years ago. book it if things dont improve. he is out of here leaving this team with marviin, horford and acie and ttthhhaaaat’s all folks.

thanks manny tso yes it will be hard ot get equivalent talent back for the price if there is a sign and trade is the bottom line. i. e. we dont accomplish much by this route and why when we sent diaw to the suns for jj it was equivalent value cap wise. the point is a sign and trade sucks too.

thanks ray well put to truth. agree obviously.

nice manny t, fitness plan, huh?

By Ken Strickland

August 7, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

RAY-I believe Marvin is more, and I base that assumption on his overall performance last yr against his hometown team, Seattle. Because of the special circumstances, both his teammates and coaches deferred to him and made him the primary option for that gm, and he was outstanding. If given the same responsibility on a consistent basis, he could be just as consistent and just as productive. I think he could be a 20PPG scorer, because of the number of FT’s he gets and his FT percentage, but not on this team. Without Smoove, he would get more scoring opportunities and get more production.

I can’t wait to see how Horford’s low post gm has improved. It’s sort of funny, but Smoove needs to utilize his inside gm more and Horford needs to utilize his outside shooting ability more. They are both excellent passers and could really compliment each others gm. A healthy Speedy and Bibby, along with an improved Acie, will improve everyones gm.

TERRELL BARRON-I didn’t miss your little corrective dig. It’s all good, and I appreciate you making me aware of my errors. Also, I certainly hope your earlier comments about Woody’s 2yr contract are correct. If so, it will put his butt to the fire.

BY #21-I got your meaning on the Obama/Hillary comment. I think we’ll see improvement from Marvin, especially if Smoove isn’t resigned. I can’t wait until the start of both football and basketball season. I think we’ll be surprised by the success both teams this yr.

By ray

August 7, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

Manny, I hear ya. See ya round, ‘bro. I’m looking forward to the Olympics.

In other news…

These are some guys I’d like to see from our summer league team in training camp:

Luke Jackson. This dude can shoot it and he passes the ball. We could always use a shooter, especially one with some size. And one that isn’t a Ricky Davis type of black hole is even better.

Jeremy Richardson. Not sure what happened in summer league. He kinda sucked except for in the first game. Hopefully that was just an aberration.

Thomas Gardner. If they hadn’t been giving all the PT to other guys, we may have seen more of Gardner. Dude is a stone-cold shooter. Again, we can’t have too many of those.

Othello Hunter. I’m not sure if this is another Solomon Jones with less height and more offense…or not. But the fella can ball some, that’s for sure. While I got sick of the “six-eight (6’8”) mafia” for a while there, this guy can play. You never know how good of a rotation player you might be getting. He plays with a good bit of energy and seems to be a good finisher. He deserves a look…and a second look.

Demetric Bennett. Another guy who didn’t get a lot of burn in the summer league games. Until the last game that is. Dude went off like a single mom in wal-mart with Bebe’s Kids. How good is he? I couldn’t tell you, but he looked awful damn good in that last game (30 points in a scoring clinic).

By SalimFan

August 7, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

Ray, I was already putting it out of my mind (SAASG) lol. They signed him for the minimum too. We could have had Shannon Brown for the minimum…..

A.S.S

By JayL

August 7, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

**Sekou - how long is Sund’s contract?”” Now I hope you all see why BK wouldn’t take a one year deal as GM. Sund will be the fall guy for the owners - y’all just watch! At least BK was respected by the players - a lot more than an be said about Sund or Woodson.

By ray

August 7, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

Ken, I hope you’re right. It will take a more aggressive approach on Marvin’s part. I’m not trying to argue or insult you in any way, but I would not base anything on that one game Marvin had in Seattle. That was one game in 82. Consistency is the key here. It would be different if he had 5 or 10 30-point games or something. Maybe we’ll see that this year. If not, and if Smith is gone, he will lose time to either Smith’s replacement (depending on which position that person would play) or to Mo Evans, who is an aggressive player. We’ll see. I share your hope that Marvin will be more, much more than he’s shown. Doubting him at a time like this isn’t good for morale anyway, LOL!

SalimFan, I know, I know….maybe something good will come out of the SL. Other than that, not seeing much activity on our front. I wouldn’t have minded seeing Elson come here, seeing as how we need a veteran big man not named LWright. OH well…

Doc, was that an echo? Heh…

By doc

August 7, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

yup ray, had written it before i saw your comments on similar subject in similar vein, spooky.

might need manny’s help but this is the real issue of civil rights to wonder how it will develop if at all and a far cry from the earlier one regarding bars that was discussed yesterday.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/basketball/news;_ylt=AsD21WQGqbYtyJdblyuMHCw5nYcB?slug=dw-darfur080708&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

By ray

August 7, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

The more I read and youtube Mo Evans, the more I like him…and I liked the signing at first mention of it. DraftExpress had some very good things to say about him, which I think somebody else posted on here as well. He gives us some options on both offense and defense (another very good perimeter defender besides JJ).

Even better, I expect this guy to really push Marvin and any young swingmen/guards we have or pick up along the way. It will be good for them to play against a veteran like this who has also been seasoned by European ball.

By The Truth

August 7, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

Ray

Here is the link regarding JJ sign-trade where 70M was involved. As I stated, the Suns were willing to match any offer including 70M:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2120960

Regarding this statement made about JJ Doc said:

“it is laughable to think he came to atlanta and basg with th intention of being a champion as this rfanchise was starting over and leaving one headed into its prime if he had stayed.”

I felt like he is disrespecting JJ here. I stated the reason must have been fame over money. The definition of fame is public reputation and recognition. JJ seems to place a high value on recognition. I’m not sure he got that in Phoenix. He was preceived as just a role player on that team. Everybody knows the “man” on the Sun’s team is Nash. I’m sure there were other reasons (why he left) as well (such as he really didn’t like the area). It is not unreasonable to think that JJ wanted to be a part of something special here in ATL. Where he really makes the difference and fans appreciate. It was no guarantee that the outcome would have been different with the Suns had he stayed. The fans in Phoenix didn’t seem to appreciate him. They were pointing fingers after that playoff lost.

My MJ comparison had more to do with both players (MJ and JJ) arriving on teams that sucks (whether through the draft or trade) and examining their attitude. I know MJ was drafted but he had chances to leave but he decided to stay.

Now I am not, in no way, suggesting that JJ is MJ. I am only making reference to similar attitude.

By SalimFan

August 7, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Jason Williams Signs with the Clippers

By doc

August 8, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

no JJ left because his feelings were hurt and it saID so in your article THAT I QUOTED IF YOU READ IT. you manufactured the part about wanting a championship. no disrespect to jj only facts truth and no disrespect to you, you flat “felt”it wrong.

most here from the start KNOW i spent months to years justifying the move to get jj from both sides but there is no justification except pure fabrication he came here to win a championship no more than any player goes to a team to win. to leave a >50 win team to join a <20 win team is not going to win a championship but to salve his wounds and line his pockets with 10 more mil as again he never got the money from the suns he got it from the hawks. i am glad he did.

the significant thing and again now that he has his money and fame he will probably set sail for a team NEXT YEAR a rabbitt, a big and josh smith or his look alike are pulled from sund’s hat in the next two months. talk truth but dont blow smoke my way the truth.

By doc

August 8, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

truth big difference … jj chose to go to a team that sucked … mj was chosen to go to a team that sucked. every player strives to make it better some more gifted than others and can actually turn around a franchise like an mj or a paul and not a jj. two are superstars and one is avery good player and maybe a repeat all star. it just doesnt mean that they arent all trying to. just a very poor analogy to try to say jj wanted to win a championship. i say it was at the bottom of his priority list back then as it should and it is supported by your own article. now that he is set it will go up the list and is according to the sund rules of player procession to achievement, status and development.

By terrell barron

August 8, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Damn! White Chocolate is still around? lol!!!

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

The Politics of Sport…that one can fill volumes…especially when we are talking about the Olympics. I have heard more about protests and crack downs this week than I can recall for such a short time BEFORE the games.

Americans apologizing for wearing face masks that their own Olympic folks gave them. I saw IOC chairman, Jacques Rogge, trying to explain away the pollution as fog tonight. Amanda Beard protesting fur with one of those racy PETA pics. Joey Cheeks visa revoked so he won’t show up and talk about Darfur. Some other lesser known folks already tossed out of China while their police folks go around keeping things looking good for the Olympics. The US athletes made a statement by choosing Lomong as the flag bearer for the opening ceremonies.

While I don’t think it is reasonable to expect Kobe & LeBron to be at the head of the Darfur cause during the Olympics, I do believe that the most effective way to highlight wrong is bring it into the light. There is a reason that rodents scatter if you shine lights upon them.

You may want to check out the Basketball without Borders program that the NBA & FIBA promote. I think some past Hawks have participated in the trips.

It will be a very interesting 2 weeks in Beijing.

This one is still my most memorable Olympic protest.

By The Truth

August 8, 2008 1:42 AM | Link to this

Doc

No disrespect to you either, but I think you are making way too much out of the championship part of my statement. I started by saying that part was my paradigm. I acknowledged that some may differ. I never stated that part was factual. However, you are stating your position (regarding his reasons to come to ATL) as fact. Those words you used “manufactured and pure fabrication” are strong words to describe my personal opinion. Now, unless you have or can provided links to validate your point, than please, caveat your postion. Readers may get the wrong impression.

Thanks for the dialogue!

By SalimFan

August 8, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this

Manny, I agree. This is rediculous and it is getting out of hand.

I say if you are going to host a tournament that everyone on the planet competes in like the olympics. Then the Olympic committee should be in charge of a yearly evaluation of the host country, in order to make sure that conditions (Be it Political or Enviornmental) are actually suitable for them to host the games. (I know i’m not taking into account the preperation that it takes to host this event) but some actions just shouldn’t be tolerated. Especially form the host.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 8, 2008 2:04 AM | Link to this

Joe Johnson may have left the Suns because his feelings got hurt or he wanted more money or he wanted to lead a team to a championship or some combination of the three. But I don’t see anything wrong with leaving for any of those reasons.

It’s perfectly understandable for a player who considers himself elite to want to cement his legacy as a guy who puts his team on his shoulders and carries them to a championship. You can call it Scottie Pippen syndrome if you want — Pippen was probably one of the 50-100 greatest players ever, but (in my opinion anyway) he doesn’t get nearly the credit he deserves from the general public because he achieved all his success alongside Jordan. From that point of view seeing players like Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, etc. leaving better teams to go to worse ones and be the #1 option shouldn’t be surprising at all. When it comes down to it, even if you win a championship now, 10-20 years from now it’s the best player on your team who’s gonna be remembered.

And even if it is all about the money… for whatever reason (and I’m not targeting this at anyone in particular on this blog, just at American sports fans in general) we in America celebrate our capitalist economy until it’s time for sports, where we expect athletes to think like communists and play for below market value. The average NFL career lasts 4 years — I don’t know the numbers for the NBA but I’d imagine it’s not much longer there either. Why would someone like Joe, coming off a season where as the 4th option he put up the stats that he did, and coming off a playoffs where it was proven how indispensable he was when he got hurt, NOT want to cash in on his success?

I might have gotten off topic, I don’t know, but in any case my point is it shouldn’t be such a big deal when a player leaves a good team for more money on a bad team.

By Dallas

August 8, 2008 3:44 AM | Link to this

The ASG’s actions with Josh Smith have been pennywise and pound foolish. As a fan base we should have been energized with the possibilities going into next season after that brief yet magical home stand in the playoffs. Congratulations to the ASG, you might not have wore down Josh Smith until he signs on your terms yet, but you’ve wore down this hard core fan into having absolutely no expectations of future success for the team. You’ve sucked all hope out of me.

My season ticket is sunk cost for next year, but it’ll be the last. Even if they ultimately resign Josh Smith, am I supposed to relive the drama next summer with Marvin Williams, the year after that with Joe Johnson, or the year after that with Al Horford? I don’t feel the need to pay $3500+ a season to watch the Clippers East with good young talent honing its skills until the day they get to go to a real franchise. Nor do I feel the need to fret over the commitment all summer as I wonder if the team that is fielded will be worth watching 41 times.

There is nothing for you to report on right now so why waste the time.

By doc

August 8, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

yeah, stay sharp truth or kirk or whoever you are.

same here!

yeah manny, that was a good one. i also liked the route jim thorpe and jesse owens made their statements. that was the only way it could be made in their day by their actions.

wonder if someone wont turn up on the podium with a “free tibet” sign somewhere on their body.

either kobe or labron have already made a statement about darfur and chinese involvement so it isnt like they can close their eyes but they might not and take the “high” road for the time being as a guest with a visa in another country. after all if one speaks too loudly there they could end up in political asylum and i imagine most have been told such.

najeh, exactly and the point i made last week, if it is about the money, the image, whatever it is okay and it doesnt make him any less competitive just like in chills’ case or josh if he happens to go and leave his hometown for another. in jj’s case it was pretty straight forward as he stated he wanted more money offered, respect and face time and he didnt get it. now wasnt that a strong part of chills’ leaving? it is okay if it isnt about winning championships as a priority or thankfully all players would end up in boston or la playing for peanuts, right?

sund rule of player development in this order is, the player wants:

to know he belongs, is accepted by his peers,

to know he is respected by the money he gets for long term and where he is in relation to others which we all can see,

to get individual honors,

to get a ring.

most live by this rule. even barkley was sweating out the last one as he traipsed around at the end. sure the ring might come with the riches but the riches come first. name one that it didnt ? as barkley was quoted he would rather have his career than horry’s.

is nothing to be guilty about, that is wealth and abundance. why do some want to make it out to be different? i assure you the owners dont think their wealth is to be guilty about. give it up dudes, guilt maybe getting in your way too. yeah najeh, why shouldnt it be about the money? where did that belief come from or truth?

dallas you get it. the sad thing is what we are sold now is that you can have FUN for your 3500 bucks by spending time down there all the while wondering if the product is worth it night in and night out. who will buy into that? i am closer and closer to saying no. my blazer hat is arriving with my daughter on her return from her northwestern territory swing, ordered it yesterday. what will arrive first, the hat or josh smith?

By waydeisme

August 8, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

This team trades for Bibby and pay him 15 mil a year,and can’t pay your best player more than 9mil a year.We got to have the dumbest team mangagement in the history of the nba.Is their some kind of class management can go to?So they can maybe find a clue of this game.

By HHoops

August 8, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Doc

This may be wishful thinking on my part, but I really think that the Hawks will resign Smoove. When? I don’t know, but one thing is for sure, they need to spread the love! We all want to feel wanted where we work. Professional athletes are no different. ASG & Sund have got to do a really good job of explaining their position on why they delayed resigning him and make sure that he knows that he is in the Hawks long range plans. I think this will go along way also, in reassuring JJ and Marvin that they want to win big here. As you know, players do talk to each other. Smoove will tell his teammates how it all went down when this resigning is finally over.

I keep reminding myself to just be patient!

By B.A.ToDa

August 8, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

cosign that Dallas.

By SalimFan

August 8, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Doc, I’ve got 20$ on your hat lol.

By doc

August 8, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

salim rofl?

cool hhoops, maybe they are talking. i can hope that too. reality, i imagine it has gotten to the point that smith has no contact with sund and how the agents want it now. that needed to come first before it got to here just as it didnt with chills.

i am patient, however as a playoff ticket buyer they have my money in escrow since may. do i wait further or get it back to pay for school expenses? hmmmm

By yetta

August 8, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Yes, I will also try to be patient; I want to believe JS will be re-signed!!!!!

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

doc unless your daughter has a fund raising cause that has her running/walking back from Portland, your hat deal closes first.

I do expect to see you at the Portland game (March 15). Given that the ownership thing will supposedly be settled by February, there is an ASG joke or two in that date, but I won’t go there.

I have my one seat this season. I am glad that I hedged. I think it will be easy to pick up seats nearby when I need them on a game by game basis.

I’ve got lots of respect for folks like Thorpe & Owens that had to stand up on the international stage and still take a kick of sand in the face when they came back. The major pro athletes of today often have enough cash to insulate themselves from most problems if they choose.

If I were in Beijing, it’d have to be a geeky protest. Lots of washable tattoos. Remember the old TV game Concentration?

Picture a doll + camel/llama + rocks

This one is still a work in progress.

F1 key + Calendar with 4th circled

So much for my political protests.

OLE

By B.A.ToDa

August 8, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

New Yahoo Article considering an OOption Josh Smith might take up. NBA forwards who do not have a job

Somebody might of already posted it… i checked 1st though.

By big lew

August 8, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

To all you bloggers, here’s the real truth, Woodson does not want Josh on the team. That’s the reason he’s bringing so many players for the same position. You see Josh has been a man since he was 15 years old. His father (Pete) taught him the ropes. Woodson want the young players to look at him as a father figure. Woodson does not want Josh father around because he is influenced by his father. Woodson want the team as his identity. Who needs a father figure when Josh has a father and is a father himself. All the Hawks need to do is sign Josh to the figure he is worth (truly worth). Compare the signing to his class and the players who came in into the NBA with him. Let’s get past the bull ** and get this done.

By Crazy Diamond

August 8, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

We are so screwed.

By RB49

August 8, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Breakin news per 790. Memphis just gave smoove an offer sheet. 5yrs 58 million. Hawks have seven days to match. THats just over this 11mil number they seem to refuse to budge on

By sekou's assistant

August 8, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

breaking news….grizz sign josh smith to 5yr, 58 million offer sheet….your move Sund.

By Dum Dee Dum

August 8, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Anyone else hearing this???

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/aug/08/griz-sign-hawks-smith-offer-sheet/

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Najeh You hit on one of the messiest truths in our society of friendly capitalists. Most folks think a raise is a good thing for everyone until they realize that it will cost them more for goods and services.

In sports, the fanatic supporters, want what they want. Sometimes what we want just is not realistic from a business perspective. I’d love to have a NBA championship team, but there can be only one (per season.)

Because the raises in sports are big, public numbers, people freak out. Imagine if the next time you were due for a raise, dozens of people were writing about it in the media and folks that did not do your job were analyzing and reviewing your work and worth.

We put athletes on a different field for play and pay.

…and that is PAIN that the collective fanhood puts on its teams, be they amateur or pro.

By Dane

August 8, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

The Memphis Commercial Appeal is reporting that Smith signed an offer sheet with the Grizz

By doc

August 8, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

manny t sometimes the soft sell is the one that is accepted first.

By darrell starks

August 8, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

ASG YOU ARE SUCKERS SELL THE TEAM AND GET YOUR 280MILLION DOLLAR AND KICK ROCKS.GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Reggie

August 8, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

Griz sign Hawks’ Smith to offer sheet By Ronald Tillery (Contact), Memphis Commercial Appeal Originally published 08:51 a.m., August 8, 2008 Updated 08:51 a.m., August 8, 2008

The Memphis Grizzlies have sent a contract offer worth $58 million to Atlanta Hawks restricted free agent Josh Smith today, according to multiple NBA sources.

 As the only team left with significant room under the salary cap, the Griz have shifted out of a summer holding pattern and targeted the versatile 6-9, 235-pound forward.

Atlanta has seven days to match, per league rules, once Smith receives the offer sheet.

Smith’s numbers have increased in each of his four NBA seasons since Atlanta made him a first-round pick out of high school in 2004. He averaged 17.2 points, 8.2 rebounds and 2.8 blocks last season, helping the Hawks make the playoffs.

The Hawks have said they would match any contract offer to the 22-year-old Smith, but are on the hook next season with big contracts for Mike Bibby and Joe Johnson.

Should the Griz land Smith he is expected to play power forward alongside Rudy Gay at small forward, O.J. Mayo at shooting guard and Mike Conley at point guard.

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Here you go.

Smith Offer Sheet

Maybe this deal will be done before doc gets his hat. I guess I was on the wrong side of that guess.

OLE

By SalimFan

August 8, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Doc, Looks like I might loose 20$

Smoove signs offer sheet.

I hope Smoove won’t pull a Joe Johnson. Or worse, Sund pulls a S&T deal.

By B.A.ToDa

August 8, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

For some reason I don’t believe the Hawks will match. Hopefully we won’t lose him for nothing though.

By B.A.ToDa

August 8, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

If Smith does land in Memphis. The Grizzs quickly becomes one of my favorite teams. They’ll be young and exciting. That’s 3 franchise type players not even at age 23 23 yet (Rudy,Mayo,Smith). Memphis is the future! But i still hope that we are willing to match and keep Smith here in the state of GA!

By doc

August 8, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

salim, you may win by default as josh might be in memphis not here by then.

i guess his market is set but will he say no thanks to the hawks as jj did and desire to be elsewhere? not too far from home either by his private jet that is. no guilt there i bet. funny how we want them to be guilty about making money isnt that what that argument is about?

now as the world turns. yuck.

By B.A.ToDa

August 8, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Sekou Holla at me!

By darrell starks

August 8, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

SEKOU SMITH WHAT UP CAN WE GET TED TURNER TO MAKE AND OFFER SHEET TO BUY THE HAWKS BACK OR EVEN COKE COLA OR MAY BE AND ARTHUR BLANK? GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Is ASG Penny wise and pound foolish?

How is it that a room full of millionaires, cannot find someone to do the math!?

A 5yr/58 mil contract from Memphis would start at 10 mil with 8% raises over the life of the contract. The first year of that deal is worth 10 mil.

If the ASG had done a “market” contract looking at the recent signings. They could have started Josh at 9 mil with 10.5% raises. He would have earned LESS for each of the first 5 years than he will under the Memphis deal. The big money is in the 6th season where he would earn 13.725 mil in 2013-14 season. The total of this deal would be 6yr/68.175 mil.

For all the arguments about not getting stuck with a bad contract, the risk in offering Smith a market rate contract was having a 6th year out there in 2013. Note that Bibby and Joe will make more this season than Josh will make at 27 if they had done the risky deal.

The Memphis deal will require a cash outlay of 3.55 mil MORE over the first 5 years than a 6yr/68 mil deal would have. Forget time value of money and interest for a minute. If they stuffed that savings under the bed, it would have lowered the 6th year risk to just over 10 mil for Smith’s last year of a 6yr deal.

For all of you who would ask, if Smith signed the offer sheet, there are no more terms to be negotiated. If that contract says the owner will shine his shoes on Tuesday—that’s the deal be it in Memphis or Atlanta. No counter offers, no changes.

Now I would gladly ask anyone—what was the advantage in waiting for someone else to sign Smith to an offer sheet?

mykhalc it’s time for the B-CUP!

By Joshua

August 8, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

JOSH SMITH HAS SIGNED WITH MEMPHIS !!!!! Hawks have seven days to match . 5 year 58 million dollar deal worth around 11 million a year

By B.A.ToDa

August 8, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Every1 Don’t Get Your Hopes up…. Please! This is the Hawks Franchise we’re dealing with. Expect The Worse (and maybe the final outcome will go our way)

By Dallas

August 8, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

My understanding is that if an offer sheet has been signed that a sign and trade is not possible. The options are match or not. The decision seems simple to me. You match that price. If Josh Smith is unhappy with the dollar level you trade him down the road. Letting him walk for nothing would be stupid and tight, even if the deal is frontloaded.

By RB49

August 8, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Well now it’s ricky sunds move. 5 and 58 definatley shouldnt be out of reach for this sorry a* ownership group. Thats under what I thought he would bring, so now its the BASG’s move. Gotta sign him for that IMO, I think thats a bargain. IF they want to sell tickets and honestly be competitive in the east they gotta do it. If Randolph Morris can bring the game he had when he was up there with Dwight Howard (grant it Howard has progressed leaps and bounds above morris) and with mo evans and the rest of our five we’ll be a force in the east. COme on Broke A* Spirit Group, sign him now.

By SalimFan

August 8, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

LOL, Doc, if that’s the case i’d gladly loose $100 to see smoove back in a Hawks uniform next season.

But if he decides to go to memphis, i can’t blame him. Just our inept management.

Rick, you’re on the clock buddy. Will you do right by the fans and this organization? Or will a mob of angry Hawks fans’ have to chase after you with Axe’s, Pick Forks, and Firey Branches??

By Tree Rollins

August 8, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

**I’m not even sure why anyone checks this BLOG anymore. These ridiculous owners have made the Hawks a non-entity in pro sports. We now are beginning to realize that Belkin was the smart owner and the other guys are the real goofballs.

Josh Smith, like Childress, is looking for any reason to leave this monstrosity of a team. The new GM is simply a shill for the owners which is a true shame. The hapless Woodson is back as coach. This team looks like a car riding down the street where the fenders are hanging off the sides from prior wrecks and the paint is peeled off and rust covers everything. They’re a complete joke and the laughingstock of the city - even make the moribund Falcons look good by comparison!**

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

I need to thank Memphis for bringing this to a close. If we waited for the ASG to act, it may not have been settled until the end of September.

This way, I see a winning scenario as a season ticket holder. Either Josh comes back and we move forward, OR he’s gone and I get lots of legroom in 108 along with a year to figure out how I’ll spend that money next year.

It is now clear to me. This is the ONE executive the ASG needs more than any other.

OLE

By darrell starks

August 8, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

DO ANY ONE HAVE TED TURNER PHONE NUMBER?

By brent a.

August 8, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Dallas

I would think that the Hawks could match, and do a sign and trade.

Isn’t that what happened with Joe Johnson?

By SalimFan

August 8, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Manny, I bow to your statistical/fiscal wizardry sir. lolz.

The ASG should hire you as a financial consultant.

I also second your arguement. Aside from completely disrespecting your employee, you ALSO end up spending more $$$$$ in the long run. What benefit is there from letting someone else put a price tag on OUR player??? If smoove was an 8th year plyaer I doubt the Hawks would have been able to mathc a MAX contract like that. What would suck even worse is that Memphis doesn’t have anything that the Hawks need or would want want (Center) if a S&T had to be negotiated.

SUND sucks, but good fiscal CRAP for SMOOVE.

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

SUPPLE time is over. Sund has almost nothing to do with the deal now. His job was about getting something done when the Hawks had flexibility. This is a pay/no pay decision.

No terms to change, no sign & trade to consider. The closest you get is after 30 days, you could trade Smith. However, he’s a base year compensation player. That contract is probably worth 5 mil in trade value even though year 1 likely has a 10 mil salary. Do you really want to trade him for someone making less than the MLE?

The best options at that rate are guys on their rookie deals. If the rookie is playing well, why pay 3x-5x that salary to get Smith? Also we might need a 3 way to get a trade exception in there to make the deal work.

A trade probably has too much complexity. The Hawks will probably pay him more in the next 5 years by matching the offer than if they had done the market deal. I would expect the deal to have a player opt out after yr 4.

Memphis can easily afford this deal by dropping Antoine Walker next season. They will still be in decent cap shape.

I am glad that Josh will get his situation resolved. Sorry that he lost that 6th year.

OLE

By darrell starks

August 8, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

TREE ROLLINS WHATS UP BUDY I NO YOU HAVE TED TURNER PHONE NUMBER CALL HIM AND TELL HIM WHAT KIND OF MES IS GOING ON WITH THE HAWKS FRANCHISE AND SEE IF HE WILL BUY THE HAWKS BACK AND MAKE SURE TO TELL HIM THAT ASG ARE SUCKERS. GO HAWKS???????????

By SalimFan

August 8, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

…..Match…heh

Thats it! The Hawks need to hire Kyra Sedgwick! She’ll get to the bottom of everything and have the ASG bowing to het in no time. Somebody gey manny a cupcake lol.

I be she could make Woody use his bech too…yup.

By doc

August 8, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

so the sign and trade is a hack and change like it was for the suns; diaw and two firsts it i remember right. not quite equal value was it for them, now was it? we also see how we treat our own high draft picks so why would we have wanted it anyway. geez.

anyway we could get the griz’ diaw and a few picks or is what manny t is saying is no way jose.

By Ben

August 8, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith signs 58 million dollar contract with the Memphis Grizzlies

Josh Smith has signed an offer sheet with the Memphis Grizzlies. This makes it impossible for the Detroit Pistons to get involved in any sign and trade for Smith, and the Hawks will have 7 days to match the offer.

August 8, Memphis Commercial Appeal: As the only team left with significant room under the salary cap, the Griz have shifted out of a summer holding pattern and targeted the versatile 6-9, 235-pound forward. Atlanta has seven days to match, per league rules, once Smith receives the offer sheet.

Smith’s numbers have increased in each of his four NBA seasons since Atlanta made him a first-round pick out of high school in 2004. He averaged 17.2 points, 8.2 rebounds and 2.8 blocks last season, helping the Hawks make the playoffs.

The Hawks have said they would match any contract offer to the 22-year-old Smith, but are on the hook next season with big contracts for Mike Bibby and Joe Johnson.

It would seem improbable that the Hawks would not match this offer and retain Smith. Losing Childress to Europe and Smith to Memphis for nothing would devastate the young Atlanta squad and set them back years.

By newkid

August 8, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Zaza, if you monitor this site sporadically, my best wishes for the safety of your family in Tbilisi during this unthinkable military onslaught by President Medvedev’s forces.

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

A headline that I never expect to see, but the acronympho loves it.

Knight Acknowledges—Ownership Stinks, yup Get Smart fans, we have located the brain trust behind KAOS)

Just in case link with parentheses doesn’t work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAOS(GetSmart)

KAOS due to OLE

By SalimFan

August 8, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

According to hoops hype, the hawks offerd a deal to Francisco Elson. But he also has an ofer from FC Barcelona.

By glenn

August 8, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Fellas , how can this not be the best case scenario ? If we just match this limp offer sheet Josh Smith is locked up as a Hawk for 5 years . I mean gees , Luol Deng got 70 million . Josh Smith should be worth more than Deng right ? Memphis just did us a huge favor . If we don’t match , well , the NBA needs to step in and get rid of this lame ownership . How can this not be a HUGE break ?

Sekou am I crazy ? Any thoughts ?

By Juice

August 8, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith to the Grizzlies

By kgbsfinst

August 8, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

This is going to be a VERY long week. I hope the ASG matches early, at least they can save some face.

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

SalimFan Once you get the basic rules down, the math is easy for these deals. Less than 50 cells in Excel for the entire Smith analysis (including white space.) The tricky part is when they change the CBA. That rewrites a bunch of rules at one time.

Once we get deputy chief Brenda Johnson back to Atlanta, she will close some cases and deals w/o having to pay the going rate for top salespeople. If she gets Woody to play the bench, we might have to get her as the newest ASG partner.

If they don’t sign him for some odd reason, imagine a jersey—half Olympiacos red, half Grizzlies blue. On the back, in the name space you see Josh??

Imagine how much running the Grizzlies would do with Smith and Gay at the forwards, Mayo & Conley in the back court.

The Hawks are fighting to make the playoffs and for the last game of this season, they go to…Memphis (April 15th).

I couldn’t make this stuff up if I tried.

KAOS

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Trouble with my KAOS link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAOS(GetSmart)

By Angry Fan

August 8, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

I can’t handle the truth! In fact, I didn’t believe the Smoov news, until I read it for myself. ASG, MATCH IT! MATCH THE OFFER TO SMITH! Hawks fans, how irate are you, at the thought of losing Smith, in 7 days? Is asg going to let that happen? We are only powerless, if we remain silent. I know I ain’t the only angry fan. In fact, I don’t even mind sharing the handle (it’s not very unique, anyway). 7 days, asg MATCH IT!

Hawks fans, MAKE SOME NOISE!!!

By Realist

August 8, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Looks like the market has spoken and it said $8M per year, NOT $11M per year.

Sorry, Sekou. And maybe if you had been out reporting instead of campaigning for Josh Smith to get $11M per year and telling readers to go kick rocks, you wouldn’t have gotten scooped by the Memphis paper.

Sekou, can you handle the truth? Smith took a $8M offer sheet because the market price wasn’t $11M.

By I.MUS WRITE

August 8, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Thatz just great…….. Memphis offers Smoove 11 milli a year and forces our hand. I dont know if they will match, but if they do-why did it take this to realize the guy is worth 11 a year.

I almost hope they dont match… sick of the dumb shyt…. where eva smoove is playing next year -I’ll be folowing and wishn him the best.

Memphis could be deadly with Smoove and the players they currently have. I can see Marvin playing the 4 tryn to guard JS…….. DUNKFEST

By MannyT

August 8, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

SalimFan I saw that Elson offer. Don’t know the $$$, but it might be impacted if they match the Josh offer before he decides to sign it.

Oddly, Memphis once again may help us to bring negotiations to closure. Chris Wallace might actually be our closer ;-)

I guess he figured they need to do something to excite the base and sell tickets. I see that their ticket prices are higher than ours after winning 22 games. Check out the 999 deal.

What Will Gearon Do? OLE

By The Truth

August 8, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

The drama of Sund next reaction isn’t the only intriguing event. It will also be interesting to know Josh’s reaction to the offer. If he signs it and publicly tell the Hawks not to match it, then that will create a similar scenario to how JJ came to ATL. However, if he does not take that action with the Hawk and just sign the offer, than the assumption is he want to remind a Hawk. That assumption is based on Sund publicly stating that he will match any offer.

From that episode we will gain real insight into Josh’s feelings for the Hawks. Can he put the past behind him and continue to play for the Hawks or does he want to cut bait and move on.

By Realist

August 8, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Wow, I just realized that the offer sheet is for 5 years, not 7 years — and man was I wrong!!

I apologize to Sekou (although you did get scooped), Josh Smith and his agent. Well done to you guys. You really got more for this guy than I ever thought he was worth.

I was wrong!

By #1 Priority = Joshes

August 8, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

I agree, Glenn…

This was gonna drag on through Sept without the Grizz jumping in and 11.6 is below what similar RFAs were signing for. Taking into account that it’s the BASG we’re talking about, I’m assuming Smith is now a Grizzly. So frustrating.

We’re talking about re-signing an aging Bibby for 15M and letting a rising Smoove walk over 11M?? That makes ZERO sense.

And oh yeah, Woodson sucks.

By some sense

August 8, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

O. K., boys and girls…the market has spoken. Match the Grizzlies’ offer, and let us play.

By Astro Joe

August 8, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

There is NO need to wait the 7 days at this point. If the ASG wants to match, do it today. There are no sign and trades to negotiate, once the offer sheet is signed, you can’t opt for a S & T. There is really no need to “penalize” the Grizzlies for stepping to your player, in fact, I would thank them for offering Smith a contract that is still seemingly below the market value set by the Okafor, Deng, Ellis and Jefferson contracts. If Sund/ASG want to show any love for Smith, they will match this deal in record time and send him a big ‘ole fruit basket welcoming him back to Philips Arena. Anything less would be an indication that their hearts (or wallets) aren’t into bringing Smith back. Thank goodness this is coming to an end.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

August 8, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

well, at least now there’s something to talk about … and at least we know there will be an end to the situation.

and looking at the memphis roster, there sure aren’t attached (and obtainable) pieces for a sign-and-trade because mayo and gay surely aren’t going to be moved by the griz …

By Jacob the Church Mouse

August 8, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Realist, you ain’t the quickest grocery bagger at the Kroger store, so why are you so eager to trash Sekou?

ding!

By terrell barron

August 8, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

I agree Glenn. Good job Sund. 58 mill for Smith is a bargain. Manny, give Sund his due. lol!!! How much yall wanna bet that they’ll take the whole 7 days to re-sign him, trade him, or whatever? lol!!

By B.A.ToDa

August 8, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

I’m just waiting to see this reported on ESPN and NBA.com, and to also catch my dude Sekou’s reaction to this. But i agree with Astro Joe, there’s no need to wait the 7 days. If the Hawks is true to their words, they will match the offer right away. If not, then the Hawks is nothing but “all-talk”.

By rays

August 8, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

new blog is up..

By doc

August 8, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

truth exactly and was what i came to query. what do you think josh is saying to ownership and is it anything near what you printed just yesterday for all to review about JJ. is he telling them to stuff it and he doesnt want to be here anymore?

for the guy who says it is a deal in comparison to the 70 mil for years, no it is not when you divide both offers by the years. funny, most have said smith’s value was going to be right at 11 mil a year whether it was for 5 years or 6. 66 mil would have been close to the 70 mil and in line with the two guys in san fran. silly stuff to have argued otherwise but you did and it didnt turn out like you thought. looks like the hawks now find themselves to be between a rock and a hard spot with no say or control in the process like in chills’ situation. you just got to wonder and say ……… hmmmmm.

just where is conventionl wisdom now?

can we say that camp is out for the summer?

By SalimFan

August 8, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Dayum!!! Whay can’t Philips offer a deal like that??? Uptight pricks, it’s the leat the could do for the suffering that we Hawks fans have gone through.

Manny, only 50 cells in Excel?? Not bad. Thats like a walk in heaven compared to length some of the useless CRAP teachers make you solve in various computer apps classes lol.

Also, I would think that Elson would fit under the MLE?? I’m not sure what was used on morris (1.9mill) probably no exception, just straight salary. If so then we still have the Bi-annual to sign summer leaugers and about 3 mill left on the MLE for Elson.

Realist, I’m glad you put your foot in you mouth before your fellow bloggers had a chache to get to you lol.

All in all, Good CRAP.

By HHoops

August 8, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Guys

This is all good for the Hawks, Hawks fans, and Josh Smith. The market has spoken and Josh has his deal. It may not be what he wanted, but he agreed to it. I really wish the deal had been for 6 years, but we’ll take 5.

Manny T, could the Hawks add a 6th year to this deal if Josh agreed to it?

Here’s what is going to be real interesting this coming week - Will the Hawks try to sign other players this week before they resign Josh?

We are getting close to having a roster for the 2008-09 season!!!

Thank you Memphis!!!

By The Truth

August 8, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Doc

Those are interesting points. We shall see.

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August 19, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

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