Hawks

By Dan

July 16, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this

Sekou I would love to have both young centers athletic home grown players to grow with our already young high flying Hawks. Question Do we have enough money to sign both plus Josh Smith and Josh Childress ?

By Dan

July 16, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

Sekou I would love to have both young centers athletic home grown players to grow with our already young high flying Hawks. Question Do we have enough money to sign Josh Smith and Josh Childress and Kwame and Randolph ?

By ray

July 16, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this

Hee Hee, I’m first to post. I think. Okay, enough of the late night bloggish glee…

Woody ain’t the only one glad to hear of true bigs wearing Hawks practice uniforms. Hell, give us both of them. We can let Solomon go. Dude doesn’t sound like he wants in anyhow…

Can’t wait for our guys to get going in summer league stuff this Friday. Yippee!

By Volman

July 16, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

Happy birthday to me!!! wow, I didn’t know 22 years old would seem so meaningless! haha.

Anyway, thanks for the update, Sekou. Seems like things are getting fired up for summer camp!

Is there any chance spectators can come to watch some of the practices? Season ticket holders? lol.

I cannot wait to see Mario West out there scrapping during the RMR. I can’t wait to see Richardson stroking some threes…Hopefully Law will flurish, and

Can CRAIG get healthy?

By Nahjay Davnpoop

July 16, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this

sekou,

you have to say something to these idiot editors that keep posting these photos of josh smith making a crying face when a team passes him over. that is going to p** him off and make him not want to play here. that, and whoever keeps posting this picture is an absolute piece of dog dung.

By HHoops

July 16, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

Ray

I got to admit that I like your style. You’re the only grown man that I know that would say, “Yippee”! That’s cool.

By ray

July 16, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this

Thanks HHoops.

LOL at Nahjay…

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 2:50 AM | Link to this

yes the BIGS, Looks like were at least going to have some succes there this off-season. Sund may not be a complete Jerk after all.

Looks like the shhoters are going to come from our summer leauge roster…..of course none of them can shoot better than salim but that’s not the point. Looks like the Hawks are going to be OK.

I think it’ll be Kwame and Wayne Simien in Hawks Uni’s next season but you never know. Sund might suprise us and sign them all lol.

Solo, Brown, Simien and Morris…….not bad.

Happy B-Day Volman

By BA

July 16, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this

Excellent post, Sekou Smith. This kind of stuff is gold this time of the year. I had a lot more fun reading this than listening to the All-Star Game! I hope they draw something up quick for Smith-no need for this to get ugly. And Smith playing for 3.1 mil for a year and then walking is my definition of ugly. Same for Chills. Give these cats a fair shake and then let Craig lead us to the promised land!

By jrock

July 16, 2008 3:05 AM | Link to this

My vote is for Justin Williams and Kwame Brown to be on the team next season.

By cp

July 16, 2008 3:06 AM | Link to this

Are these games going to be on NBA TV? I think we will probably end up with Kwame but who knows. Signing both bigs would not be a bad idea either.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 3:14 AM | Link to this

I see why Golden State let Pietrus walk…..

Beasly is a LEGIT Small Forward. Unlike Smoove who is a true tweener(PF IMHO)

BTW Anthony Johnson signed with the Magic today. What???? Why??? The had a shot at J-Will???? Negotiations must have went sour and the Magic opted for steady stability at a cheaper price…..I think someone already mentioned his but i’m not sure.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 3:21 AM | Link to this

Jarred Bayless in summer leauge action

Circus Shot

Agressive Drive to the Hoop

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 3:25 AM | Link to this

More Summer Leauge Play…

Mayo from 69 feet

Now that’s range homes’.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 3:41 AM | Link to this

Hassan Adams (Arizona)(Nets Summer Squad)

John Lucas III (Rapters Squad)

Both participating in summerleauge this year after their overseas stints.

Of course you all know that Will “The Thrill” Bynum is playing for detroit this summer.

Robert “Tractor” Traylor is plyaing the cavs in summer leage.

Shelldome got in on the action too lol

I don’t know who this J.C Carol guy is but he looks like a beast.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 4:04 AM | Link to this

Danil Gallinari Summer Leauge footage…

He’s Gonna be good

Mavs Vs. T-Wolves Kevin Love Debut???

Not so much….

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 4:13 AM | Link to this

Even More Summer Leauge Action.

Donte Green(Syracuse)

yeah……..He can shoot

I know you’ve all seen this but i’ll post it anyway.

The Poster…Mayo over Hilton Armstrong

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 16, 2008 5:11 AM | Link to this

Sekou, wouldn’t it be just as big of a gamble for the Hawks if Josh plays out this year on a qualifying offer and heads into next summer with unrestricted status and possibly higher market value? Yeah, Josh risks injuring himself or lowering his market value, but it’s just as likely (maybe even more likely) that he increases his value this season playing on the qualifying offer. Even if they have cap space with Bibby’s salary coming off the books, being able to match other teams is a huge luxury to have. It would be just as risky for the Hawks to not go into this season with a long-term deal in place as it would be for Smoove himself.

As for the Camby trade, it doesn’t make sense at all for either team (Denver is already the worst defensive team in the league and now they lose their best defender, and the Clippers now have two centers who don’t really complement each other well enough to play together)… which leads me to believe the Clippers probably want to make a trade.

Kwame Brown has proven over the course of his career that the only place where he can draw raves from onlookers is in one-on-one workouts. Randolph Morris on the other hand hasn’t really proven one way or another what he can do. It may be worth giving him a look.

Lock up the Joshes, D.A.S.G….

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 16, 2008 5:22 AM | Link to this

Some of y’all who seem to be OK with the idea of Kwame Brown joining this team… I don’t think y’all really realize how bad he sucks. There are so-called busts like Joe Smith who can still play, but who just didn’t live up to expectations. There are so-called busts who were actually pretty good but couldn’t stay healthy. Then there are the Kwame Browns of the world who just plain suck. I don’t get the logic of signing a guy who is worse than the scrub big guy you already have. I can’t really remember the last time I saw Kwame catch a rebound in traffic. In fact I can’t really remember the last time I saw Kwame catch a ball, period.

I guess I just don’t trust a guy who names his kid “Kwameeri”. Sign Simien and/or Justin Williams. Please don’t sign Kwame Brown. If we are gonna sign a useless ex-Laker big man, we might as well bring back SLA-va MED-ve-DEN-ko.

By wordsmithtom

July 16, 2008 6:25 AM | Link to this

Kwame is an enigma. I suspect he is one of those young big men who grow up a little slower. He came out of high school a phenom; got paid too much too fast; didn’t get the college grooming; and now finds himself having to prove he can play. I saw him play a couple games with the Lakers and he was a beast both times. Much more physical than anyone on the court.

I’m reminded of Antoine Carr. The Hawks never really knew what to do with him. But, Utah rode his back to a championship.

So, I say yes to Brown, and Randolph or one of those big men from summer camp too. Looks like Solomon needs to put on some weight and prove himself.

Another plus for Brown. Coach likes vets.

No guarantees, but sometimes it takes a boy a long time to understand what it takes to be a man. Some never learn; but “coming back home” might be the magic elixer.

By ATL Native in D.C.

July 16, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

I grew up in Southwest Atlanta. Left the city in 84 and have been living in the Baltimore/D.C. area since that time. As a frequent visitor to Washington Wizards games, I can tell you that the Hawks need to avoid KWAME BROWN. He is a BASKETBALL FRAUD. He has been stealing paychecks every since coming into the league. If the team wants to maintain it’s current track of improvement….STAY AWAY FROM KWAME.

By ATL Native in D.C.

July 16, 2008 7:37 AM | Link to this

If the Hawks need any information on Kwame, just contact Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. Both players have experienced first had frustrations with his lack of maturity, wasted potential, and bad work habits. For more information…contact Phil Jackson or Eddie Jordan.

By Smoky Joe Wood

July 16, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this

Interesting quote from Chris Mannix of SI, which is not entirely news but puts the case succinctly. Sund needs to sit these two down and make them kiss and make up.

“The Hawks would likely raise the five-year, $45 million offer that Smith turned down last summer, but money will not be the only factor in the talented young power forward returning to Atlanta. As I previously reported in Sports Illustrated, league sources say Smith is not interested in returning to the Hawks if Mike Woodson, who just signed a new two-year contract to remain with Atlanta, is the head coach. The two have butted heads frequently in Smith’s four seasons with the Hawks, and sources say the relationship is beyond repair. With a dearth of offers, Smith may change his tune but having a volatile relationship on such a young team may not be in the Hawks’ best interests.”

By Sekou K. Smith

July 16, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

Some of you cats are true night owls or early risers, however you want to look at it.

Najeh, I agree with you that it’s risky all the way around for a player to test the qualifying offer waters and the team that he plays for has to hold their breath because they might lose a vaulable young talent for nothing. I didn’t meant to place all the risk on the player alone.

Justin Williams, Wayne Simien and Jamal Sampson were other bigs that looked pretty good Tuesday (as did guys like Luke Jackson and another tweener guard named Dominique Kirk and a rookie shooting guard named Frank Robinson), but I was focused, like most everyone else in the gym on Morris (and to an extent Brown, who was already gone but left an impression on everyone who saw him earlier).

These practices aren’t open to the public. They’re barely open to the media since we have to fist-fight wtih some security company that has Philips on lock for some Microsoft convention.

And I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss a cat like Kwame or Morris. A lot of times players only need the right fit to find their game (DeSagana Diop comes to mind). I’m trying to keep an open mind about it.

By Reggie

July 16, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

Sekou

Do you think theres any chance the deal with Josh Smith could get done as early as next week, I would think if both sides want to get it done, it gets done. There are still some decent free agents out there. Do you hear anything about the hawks being interested in a player like Michael Finley, Maurice Evans, or a Kelenna Azubuike.

By doc

July 16, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

nice to be able to place the drama a bit on the back burner. thanks for the early update.

By doc

July 16, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

nice to be able to place the drama a bit on the back burner. thanks for the early update.

By doc

July 16, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

it will be an interesting year if josh smith is making essentially half of what marvin caries home while covering his arss every game on defense.

By doc

July 16, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

volman happy birthday, use it wisely. celebrated mine just three day ago. enjoy your day bud.

By j

July 16, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Hello, Sekou, what are your thoughts on the SI article which states that Smoove is not interested in playing for Woodson? I know they have had their differences, but, I hoped they could work it out. Signing for the qualifying offer is a pyrrhic victory at best. Say it ain’t so! I am a huge fan of your writing Sekou. Cheers, J

By khao$

July 16, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Sekou…I’m not asking for you to divulge all of your information…that may alienate some of your sources. However, I heard you on the “Stews” mentioning Josh Smith’s father’s stance; Josh isn’t on the outs with the Hawks. However, CNNSI is still saying he doesn’t want to be here. Is the truth somewhere in the middle?

By Samuel

July 16, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

Kwame Brown can definately help us. People who know basketball know that the guy has talent and size and that’s what you want first and foremost. The other part can be worked on. He obviously wont cost a lot of money so bringing him here seems like a no-brainer to me.

Nahjay,

You took the words right out of my mouth. It really bothers me how the press(hopefully not Cuz) always likes to sensationalize every freekin thing. Every picture I’ve ever seen of Josh has a negative facial expression. Give me a break. The guy must smile sometimes.

Hopefully, Claxton can return to his form and settle into his natural role as a backup. We still need Bibby or something comparible though. That scoring ability makes us a whole nother team that neither Acie or Speedy can provide right now.

By Orlando

July 16, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

I have a feeling this won’t end well for Josh Smith and the Hawks. What are the chances he simply plays out the remaining year and goes out on the free agent market next offseason?

Atl Native in DC, I live in the DC/Northern VA area and I can definitely agree with your stance on Brown. However I think that playing in Atlanta without any pressure might be exactly what he needs, a chance to mature slowly.

By Zach

July 16, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

Great update. An addition of Kwame and a veteran presence like Lo Wright would bring a front court to Atlanta that we have not scene since the days of Willis, Mosses, Antoine and Livingston.

Quick question, Have either of the Josh’s been working out in the gym this summer during the course of the off season as they work on finalizing a long term deal?

This time last year J Smoove was working alongside “The Dream” which resulted in a much improved low post game.

By Sekou K. Smith

July 16, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

I saw the story on SI’s website and I’ll say it again for the umpteenth time, neither Smith nor anyone else affiliated with him has ever said (on or off the record) that he doesn’t want to be here or doesn’t want to play for Woodson.

Despite their very public dust ups in the past, Smith and Woodson had a smooth (no pun intended) working relationship this past season. Are they going to be spotted at each other’s houses partying anytime soon? Probably not. But neither are any of his teammates.

But you’d be surprised, his relationship with Woodson is better than Woodson’s relationship with some other guys on the team (lots of guys chafed under Woodson’s gruff style the past four years but didn’t shoot back at him the way Smith did).

What I can tell you for a fact is that when the new general manager sat down with all the players and asked them for their honest opinions on all things, including Woodson (and this was before Woodson received his contract extension), Smith is one of the players that didn’t have a single bad thing to say about Woodson (I know of at least two other guys that didn’t hold back and let Woodson have it). So even if he felt it deep down, Smith never voiced it to Rick Sund or anyone else.

Listen, the kid’s 22 and had some dust ups with his coach. Big deal. I think far too much has been made of all the drama. I’ll aslo point out that those rifts were far from a one-sided deal. Woodson owns just as much of the blame for those dust ups as Smith does.

But they’ve never allowed that stuff to keep them from being able to work together. And Woodson knows better than anyone how important Smith is to the Hawks’ cause now and in the future, so don’t believe all the hype about their frayed relationship.

Those two will work together just fine if (and really when) Smith’s new deal is done.

By I.MUS WRITE

July 16, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Good info Sekou keep it coming…… Whass up Salim fan AKA The King of Links.

Kwame Brown: I must admit in the past i thought his game was disgusting,but this may be his time. Hopefully he will give us the size,rebounding and interior D we need to go along with Smoove and Al……..he cant be any worst than ZAZA pre playoffs or Solo.

Justin williams and K Azzibukee to go along with Kwame would be a nice upgrade for us. I sure hope Solo knows what he is doing, He looked like a high schooler last year in summer league. May be he is working out privately…. He better be in there with Bill Russel ,Robert Parish or Kareem or sum other Legend IE. Smoove from last summer.

Dam it-Camby for a second round pick. How could you not jump on that deal. I woulda offered Solo,ZAZA and the 2nd rounder…Jeezuz man

camby,horford,smoove and kwame off the bench is nice -opponents would’nt think twice about coming in the lane. Proactive insted of inactive

By Astro Joe

July 16, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Happy B-Day Volman and a belated one to you Doc.

Someone mentioned yesterday that the RFAs are likely clusered together and it will take one signing to jump-start the process. I doubt that Smith, Iggy, Okafor or Deng will get very different offers. I could see Gordon being in a lower tier and then Childress. Odds are that Philly moves first as the other teams are notorious for moving slowly.

If we get out of the summer with Speedy healthy, the Joshes re-signed, Kwame and an NBDL-type shooter, I would have to send Mr. Sund a gift casrd for a Chick Fil A #1 combo with a large lemonade. He would’ve earned it.

By khao$

July 16, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Sekou’s Biased, I think that was an unfair shot at our neighborhood beat reporter. If anything, he’s been very accessible and I can’t indentify one time where it seemed he was on the Hawk’s side or Josh’s side of the fence. He’s reported things as he’s seen them, with a little entertaining insight added in. Yo Sekou, keep up the good work homie.

By doc

July 16, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

samuel amen to it all. kwame can help more than rens did and fill a particular need, the drama with josh is probably overstated but is there because of woody as much if not more than josh as woody has roughly handled most players and it has come to be expected.

as far as bibby his high cost everyone rails have to be weighed by the fact he is required and has to fill a role to keep the other folks honest as an outside shooter; that in addition to his other role of leading the offense. if he does he is worth everything, unfortunately he didnt bring his a game shot for whatever reason last year. i hope it is found before the season opens as it is a beauty to watch each time it is launched.

for the big need, if the price is right randolph and kwame would both be good if they are the best available as down the road zaza is probably gone from here or close to it next year. you cant rebuild each year and certainly cant learn woody’s complex offense overnight. okay, a low blow; maybe one cant learn his defense overnight.

thanks aj, much resepct as always to you. summer going ok?

By Matt

July 16, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Here’s a slightly-modified version of a post I made in the last thread for all of you who think we could have gotten Camby. Sekou - please correct me if I’m wrong about any of this.

The Hawks were $6.8M below the cap. Camby’s salary for next year is $8M, but Camby’s figure for the salary cap purposes of the team acquiring him was $10.1M thanks to the trade kicker in his deal. That’s how the Nuggets acquired the real asset in the Camby trade - a $10.1M trade exception that’s good until next July!

I’m almost positive that the Hawks wouldn’t have been able to get around the salary cap restrictions by renouncing their ability to use one of the FA exceptions. Not completely sure, but the general rule is that you cannot combine exceptions or use any combination of exceptions and cap space to sign a free agent, or so says the always-helpful NBA Salary Cap FAQ. I assume that the same rule would apply to acquiring a player in a trade.

Thus, the Hawks would have had to have given up someone with an expiring contract worth at least $3.3M and who would not put them further over the cap (i.e. not Bibby) to get Camby. We only have two players who fit that bill: Marvin Williams ($5.6M) and Zaza Pachulia ($4M).

Zaza and a 2nd rounder for Camby still would have been a no-brainer for me, but we never could have gotten Camby anyway because the trade was a pure salary dump for the Nuggets. They just got hit with a $14M luxury tax last week, and so the Nuggets’ owners clearly wanted to dump all $8M of Camby’s salary without taking anything back - certainly not any player who would cut the salary dump in half (or more). Furthermore, doing such a deal would greatly curtail the trade exception that the Nuggets acquired - you can do MUCH more with a $10.1M trade exception than a $6.1M or $4.6M exception.

The Clippers had the cap room to take on all $10.1M of Camby’s salary cap figure. The Hawks don’t. Thus, the Nuggets GM probably never even bothered talking to Sund - or any of the 26 GMs of teams with less than $10.1M in cap room right now (only the Clippers, Warriors, Grizzlies, and Bobcats qualify).

It’s really that simple.

By Ben

July 16, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Kwame Brown would be a great piece. People thinks he sucks because he’s not worthy of being the #1 pick. If we could’ve gotten AJ back and we could get Kwame, that would be amazing for our veteran core.

By fudd21

July 16, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

WOW! I guess the blog police didn’t like what Sekou’s Biased had to say as his post is now gone. LOL!

By Realist

July 16, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Did you really remove the post from “Sekou’s Biased”? That is shameful. He/she wrote nothing that was offensive or inappropriate, and in fact raised some very legitimate questions.

Should I take this to mean that we are no longer allowed to question Josh Smith’s basketball IQ? Are we not allowed to wonder why Sekou so strongly advocated signing Smith to a long-term deal last summer, when it turns out the Hawks made the right move by waiting, because no other team was willing to shell out the big bucks?

Are we really not allowed to ask the AJC to hold itself to high standards? Sheesh, if that’s the case, this paper is in worse shape than I thought.

By Ben

July 16, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

What did Sekou Biased say? Mad I missed it.

By Matt

July 16, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

I thought the post by “Sekou’s Biased” was 30 kinds of dumb, unfair, and just way, way off the mark. In fact, I disagree that the post raised “legitimate questions.” I disagree with Sekou’s rosy view of Smith and don’t think we should be paying hand over fist to keep him, but Sekou has NOT been shilling for the lad.

But I’m more disturbed by the removal of the post. I mean, I know that it’s AJC’s board and AJC has the right to remove whatever it wants. But Sekou’s seen much worse than that post before without having the post removed. Wow…not a good sign if this is what we can expect from this board in the future. I might need to take my business back to Hawksquawk.

By AJC

July 16, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

There was never a post by Sekou’s biased. Mentioning any such unposts is doubleplusungood. Stop crimethink.

By $ Bill

July 16, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

I’m really shocked at the Right of First Removal by the blog monitors! I have lurked for quite some time on most of the ajc.com blogs and have seen all kinds of negative and racist comments get posted without any kind of censoring. I’ve even formally complained to the AJC without any kind of response.

The post by “Sekou’s Biased” was off-the-wall, but it was NOTHING like some of the trash that is allowed by the powers that be.

By doc

July 16, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

i too am concerned that it was removed because all of us er most all of us would have seen how unreasonable it was once read and most get a good laugh. the timing couldnt have been worse for sinve sekou certainly hadnt sounded totally in smith’s camp just in his last post. for the most part sekou serves up news, usually dispels accurately the rumors and can hardly be called biased to a fault.

anyone with any sense realizes anything put onto a vehicle likes this or into words anywhere on anything whether it be verbal or written is biased and is guilty of such as it is our own perceptions upon which we see things anyway however warped it is. it is what our neural system of transmitters and hormones deliver up in its own creative and individual way. to think otherwise only suggests a significant void of understanding and knowledge or its own inherent bias that i see it the right and the only way it can be in my own self constructed god like atmosphere of my own being.

btw, the blog police are a service that anyone can use and petition removal of offensive info and is not handled by the ajc. maybe sekou has a bit more pull and did it but anyone can find any offense and report it and have it reviewed and it is part of our agreement to participate in the blog. the best way to handle it as most do is to respectfully ignore it.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Yes there was you wannabe 1984 Author. It wasn’t important just normal Hater Talk.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Matt, I think you are overreacting. The guy accused Sekou of stuff that just isn’t true. It was your typical Flame post.

Not smart to make the host of the party angry. The bouncers will throw you out of the club lol. The same thing happend to casey’s posts if you remember. They were obscene and removed…….you might have been on your blog vacation when that happend though.

By AtlSouthside

July 16, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

All of a sudden ASG doesn’t look so dumb… But they need to go ahead and make a new realistic offer while the opportunity is still there.

And to all the haters, Sekou Smith is the best cats (Sports columnist) on the AJC staff.

By blog police ??

July 16, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Are freakin kidding me? Removing posts? With all the coon jokes and racist banter being posted on AJC in reference to Vick, and now you decide to censor? Oh I forgot, Vick bashing might p** off the demographic that really supports this paper. Im a successful white man by the way. Swallow that remark.

By Realist

July 16, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

It’s not legitimate to ask why Sekou’s “spies” typically know things that only Josh Smith’s agent would know, or why that agent is typically the only person “close to the situation” who gives a significant quote on a story involving Smith? Seems legitimate to me to ask if Sekou is doing his job well—getting quotes from other sources, offering an unbiased perspective on Smith’s ACTUAL value, getting to a second level beyond just the agent’s view of the world. What is illegitimate about that question?

And is it “flaming” to suggest that Smith has a low basketball IQ? I guess the television announcers who all questioned Smith’s decision-making with backhanded compliments such as “he is really only scratching the surface of understanding what the game is all about,” were just flaming. I guess I imagined all of those wild drives, forced three pointers and passes out of bounds. None of those ever happened.

Fact is, Smith is a great athlete with serious basketball deficiencies. Doesn’t mean he can’t improve, but it does have a lot to do with why Philly and LA both passed him over for better players. And instead of reporting on whether the Hawks should be thinking of doing the same thing (e.g. moving him in a sign-and-trade for a better player and/or draft picks), Sekou prefers to blow sunshine about how great Smith is and how we should all just breathe a sigh of relief that the Hawks “got away with” not losing him to another team.

If what “Salim’s Biased” wrote can get you bounced from this blog, than we have clearly stifled any reasonable debate.

By Ken Strickland

July 16, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t be too quick to dismiss KBrown’s ability to help this team. At Washington, he was a very young and inexperienced player that had to deal with the pressure of being drafted #1 by, and playing for, the greatest player in NBA history. In LA, he was expected to carry the load for a franchise that carried the legacy of KJabbar, who was his mentor. In every other stop in his NBA career, he’s been counted on as a starter. With us, he’d be counted on as a backup. He just might excel in that roll.

I remember a player that was outstanding as a backup for the BAD BOY Pistons, but fell flat on his face whenever he was asked to duplicate his performance as a starter. His name was John Salley. I honestly believe Kwame could provide more for this team, in a backup roll, than either Zaza or SJones. He’s a better OFF player than Solo, and a better DEF player than Zaza. Besides, both Zaza and Solo become FA’s after this season.

After acquiring Camby, the Clippers might be willing to part with Kaman. However, with Camby’s DEF, they might be even more interested in acquiring ZRandolph than before. With a BIG like Kaman, and with his numbers, I’d love to see him teamed up with Horford. Man, we’d own the boards and our inside OFF/DEF would be strong as well.

By Tyger

July 16, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Good News Finally

1. Smoove wont be going anywhere; hopefully, Chills wont either.

2. Great prospects in camp - I’ve longed for both Kwame Brown and Randolph Morris for this team.

3. With money drying up, Hawks finally in line to get a steal in the free agent derby.

4. Sooner rather than later, Speedy’s knees are going AWOL and we’ll have another $5M for the books.

5. Shelden looked good in summer league action; we gave up on him too soon.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Starters/Backups: 1.Bibby/Speedy/Acie 2.JJ/Acie/Chills/Mario 3.Marvin/Chills/Smoove/Richardson 4.Smoove/Horford/Solo or Randolph Morris 5.Horford//Kwame/Zaza Not too shabby. If Speedy can play, we can use Acie at the 1 and the 2. Craig and Acie would be a sweet lookin 2nd team 1 and 2, no doubt. That would allow Acie to be more aggressive, and do what he does best, which is score the basketball. And lets not forget that Craig is a damn good defender. Remember how all those PG’s made Bibby look like he was in slow motion? That want happen with Craig. Now this all depends on his health of course, but if he plays, WE ARE A MUCH BETTER TEAM. Offensively and especially defensively. Just think of Craig as our 1st free-agent pickup, albeit for a little more than the MLE. lol! Now lets go get Kwame and Shannon Brown and head back to the Playoffs. Now lets take a look at that 2nd team 1 more time: Speedy/Acie/Chills/Solo or Randolph Morris/Kwame or Zaza. Not bad at all. Throw Shannon Brown in the mix, and we’ll compete for a 5th, or 6th seed.

By randy

July 16, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Maybe the Spirit have a smarter business acumen than I thought. No offers coming Smith’s way, he must be thinking about getting back to Atlanta to negotiate again. Hope Chills gets back to the table again too, to lose either of them would be bad. As far as Kwame is concerned, I wouldn’t mind having a big body like that as long as they pay what he is worth (which isn’t much). Morris would also be a nice find, though I heard, atleast in college, that he had some character issues. Hope he isn’t one to mess up chemistry. Either way, I am happy that their are atleast a couple bigs with names that I have heard of out there that are still available.

By cp

July 16, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Happy b day to Volman and Doc

Im guessing Salim was one of the guys who really let Sund know how he felt about Woodson. I wonder who the other guy was lol..

I think Kwame can help this team. He has terrible hands though which could get frustrating watching him and YKW fumbling the ball all over the place… Kwame is what I call a “hope” player. You hope he finally gets it, you hope he realizes this might be his last chance to prove he can play, you hope it works out. We just need rebounding and good interior defense from him and I think he can give it to us.

Ken from my understandnig the Clipps plan on playing Kaman and Camby together. I dont know who will play the 4 but it might work out well. I just dont see them giving away Kaman seeing how Camby is up there in age and is injury prone, although he has been pretty healthy these last two years.

By kgbsfinst

July 16, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Think about this lineup for about a five minute stretch. Speedy, JJ, Chills, Smith, AL. Not to many teams would be able to keep up with them. I know Woodson seems to be against running, but maybe he would be ok with it if it was only for stretches. That could be a good way to start the 2nd half, or if they are trying to stop a run.

By ray

July 16, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding….

By ray

July 16, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Well, apparently some people can appreciate a beat writer who reports the facts and dispels the rumors that just aren’t true….and some people simply CANNOT. Why they remain here like a pestilence is beyond me. Oh yeah, I forgot. Freedom of Speech. Alrighty then, moving along….

Doc, you’re right. It is worth a laugh sometimes.

Volman, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!

I have to echo some others and say that Kwame Brown is not a downgrade from what we’ve had. The kid was absolutely ruined by Michael Jordan. It didn’t help to go right from that frying pan, to the fire of Kobe’s world. Funny thing is, before Gasol (and after Bynum got hurt), Brown struggled some, but had Kobe’s endorsement. I think a lot of people missed that. If I was SalimFan, I’d be the man and post you a link of what Kobe had to say when L.A. fans began booing Kwame. Tell you what, this guy could use a change of scenery and a LOT less pressure.

He’s far more mobile than Zaza, despite being about the same height and weight. He’s a better defender and shoots over .500. He’s every bit as tough as Lorenzen, but doesn’t have to hack everybody to death to defend them. And unlike Lorenzen, he will average more rebounds and points per game than fouls. Solo may or may not be outclassed or not in the mix overall. Sign Brown, Justin Williams, and Morris. Let Solo go if he doesn’t want to be here or can’t compete with the others. The thing is, any bigs we acquire to play, and play hard. We don’t need them sitting on the bench.

Glad to know that Smith hasn’t thrown Woody under the bus. That speaks well of him. I can only imagine who the two guys were that blasted Woody. Salim just about had to be one…

I’m interested in seeing how these shooters do. Gardner, Jackson, etc. Waitin’ on summer league.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I wonder what Salim had to say about Woodson? lol!! Even though his opinion probably did’nt carry any weight. If JJ, Smoove, and Horford wanted him back that’s all that Sund needeed to hear.

By ray

July 16, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

If we sign Kwame and one or two other bigs, I’d like to see some lineups with him in there with Horford. I think Zaza is better coming off the bench. Kwame is mobile enough to rotate much better on defense and help Horford out with the heavy lifting. That would leave Josh free to cause havoc wherever he wants to. Put Marvin on the bench and let him come in and shoot that beautiful jumper of his. Well, it’s one idea anyway…

By ray

July 16, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

terrell, cp, I see I’m not the only one who thought one of the Woody-rippers was Salim, LOL!!!

By doc

July 16, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

i imagine those that blasted woody were able to use it for their exit interviews. truth may be truth, it just means it is truth to the lsitener in how it is received ….. ever read the one about the emperor who had no clothes? it is all about perception and we each live in our own holographic universe, even those that call themselves realistic. grains of sand for a grain of thought.

By Melvin

July 16, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

I think Jerryd Bayless and Monta Ellis are brothers. Look like the Blazers got another young stud to add to their stable.

By Melvin

July 16, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

It will be interesting to see what Portland does in the next 3 to 4 years. If their young players continue to develop, they may have 3/4 guys (Oden, Roy, LaMarcus and Bayless) that will command max/close to max contracts. I wonder if they let the market set those guys value….

By Scotty

July 16, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Maybe I’m just not as well in tune with available ‘bigs’ right now, but why are they both 6’ 11”? We got Big Al, and if Woodson didnt hate Solo so much, he’s a baller. He D’d up KG big dawg style in the playoffs. He got game. I ain’t even gonna comment on Mr. floppy (Zaza). Is there a 7 footer anywhere!!!! Sorry…a non-european 7 footer. Good Lord, why did we keep Woody!

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Imus, Denver wanted the cap space. They still have 4 players making at least 10 mill a year, and they had to re-sign JR Smith. That’s why they made the trade.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Imus, Denver wanted the cap space. They still have 4 players making at least 10 mill a year, and they had to re-sign JR Smith. That’s why they made the trade. And they just swapped 2nds, they did’nt even get a 2nd.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Astro, you mean he deserves a Chick-fil-a meal for signing Kwame and a D-Leaguer. WOW! That’s basically all he had to do. Signing the Joshes is a no-brainer, and Craig was already here.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Melvin, Big difference. Monte does his thing against NBA Players, not D-Leaguers. Dont put Bayless in Monte’s category. Not yet.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Melvin, Big difference. Monte does his thing against NBA Players, not D-Leaguers. Dont put Bayless in Monte’s category. Not yet. And dont forget about Sergio. Bayless prolly wont even start.

By Michael C. Teniente

July 16, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

I’ve been following the Lakers for 40 years and I paid close attention to Kwame Brown while he was with the Lakers. I watch every game and I can tell you right now, Kwame Brown is a serious defender. The Lakers didn’t appreciate what they had in Kwame and Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant were dogging him.

Phil Jackson would pull Kwame out of the game even though teams would attack the rim against any other center the Lakers played after Shaq got traded.

I saw with my own eyes time after time Kobe Bryant hog the ball and not pass the ball to Kwame. Then at some point in the game when Kobe was in trouble he would all of a sudden pass the ball to Kwame. Kwame was ready for the pass because after watching Kobe take shot after shot without passing the ball his mind wasn’t into that part of the game (scoring).

Kwame Brown’s problem is that he’s been put with ball hogs his whole career. Michael Jordan, Gilbert Arenas and Kobe Bryant. Out of it all Kwame finally concentrated on defense and if you did your research you would know that Yao Ming says that Kwame Brown plays the best defense against him.

Kwame Brown has it in him to be a championship level defensive player. And with Joe Johnson and others on the Hawks…if the Hawks plays serious basketball on both sides of the court…Kwame Brown will shine, especially on the defensive end of the game where championships are won.

mike t.

By kirknga

July 16, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Well Well. Good to see some starting to slowly walk back into the light!

Sorry I missed the deleted post. It is very dangerous when administrators perform an act of censorship without explanation, or pointing to a clear violation of posted rules.

Unfortunately 1st Amendment rights do not apply to this particular for of media. Meaning that the arbitrary deletion of any post is a weapon to be used by those unwilling to be challenged.

Now with the sword hanging above all of our heads, I must ask a similar question. How is it that some of us, ok not us but me, were tsk-tsk’d for saying that Josh Smith wants to return to the Hawks is an assumption we should not make.

We have now our second national journalist repeating the same lack of desire on Smith’s part to be a Hawk. Are we really supposed to believe these journalist just made these things up?

I’m not saying Sekou is wrong and they are right. I just don’t believe we should be told to ignore sources that have a different story to tell. All should be listen to, evaluated by the individual reader and then form an opinion based upon all the evidence(such as it is) presented.

I’m not saying this is a fact, or that I have information which leads me to be believe this, but politics are always involved in these matters.

As such, isn’t it entirely possible for the Smith camp , knowing he might have to come back with tail between his legs, to work the hometown media one way with positive spin about returning, while letting it be known discreetly to some in the market that Smith’s first wish is not to be a Hawk under the circumstances?

That’s certainly the smartest way for someone who felt that way to play it. The media savy know how to properly use the media for their advantage.

I like the idea of Brown and Morris signing up. I like Lorenzen Wright and Scott Pollard as well as they are both gritty vets who will be very physical,use all of their fouls, and will not need the ball as Brown and Morris will.

This would allow a more natural line up of Horford at 4 and Smith at 3. In fact, find a tandem of bigs who can give you serviceable to good production, and Smith might become excellent trade bait.

I’m not ready to write Bibby off so easily. I remember the suffering the last 7 years, including the failed JJ experiment. Bibby was hurt last season… Prior to that , is there any doubt that we was among the top 6-7 PG’s in the league?

Hopefully the game will slow down for Acie this season and he will live up to the expectation that many hold for him, as I don’t think he’s ready to run a contending team as of yet. We will see what happens this season.If he isn’t ready, then Bibby is a priority next summer. We simply can’t go back to the days of not having a legit PG run this team, Smith or no Smith.

As I said weeks ago, AG has card to play that they would not have available to them if they had panicked and signed the Joshes. Some options harder than others(with the BYC rules) but options nonetheless.

They’ve not only explored contingencies, but they are working out players who are suited to fill a need on this team and do have talent. It’s the other stuff one worries about with both Brown and Morris.

So ASG, the organization, has been doing something contrary to the received wisdom. The panic instigated on the last several blogs was indeed called for as a very few of us stated.

Now that people are walking their positions back a bit, we can hopefully get over the gloom ,doom, and suspicion and focus on how we’re going to improve on 37 wins,with both Joshes, or with only one, Childress perhaps? Because in the end, for most of us(though not all), that is really where the rubber hits the road.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, is their any way that Memphis throw us a buzz saw, and offers Smith a contract? I know they just signed Marc Gasol, but they’re only PF’s are Darrell Arthur, Andre Brown, Hakkim Warrick, and Antoine Walker, OF ALL PEOPLE. And they’re the only team left with the cap space.

By Michael C. Teniente

July 16, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

One more thing: Kwame Brown is an excellent at defending the high screen and roll. With Kwame Brown in the middle teams will be forced to play out of a half court set. In other words: You won’t see a lay-up parade with Kwame in the middle.

The Lakers, since Shaq got traded, have had teams doing lay-up drills against them until Kwame became the starting center. And when the Lakers traded him for Gasol…well you saw what happened in the finals. The Celtics had a lay-up paraded and killed the Lakers because Gasol can’t play a lick of defense.

mike t.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, is there any way that Memphis throw us a buzz saw, and offers Smith a contract? I know they just signed Marc Gasol, but they’re only PF’s are Darrell Arthur, Andre Brown, Hakkim Warrick, and Antoine Walker, OF ALL PEOPLE. And they’re the only team left with the cap space.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, is there any way that Memphis throws us a buzz saw, and offers Smith a contract? I know they just signed Marc Gasol, but they’re only PF’s are Darrell Arthur, Andre Brown, Hakkim Warrick, and Antoine Walker, OF ALL PEOPLE. And they’re the only team left with the cap space.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Realist, I wasn’t even referring to Josh Smith. I was talking about the Sekou insults.

No one is questioning Sekou’s sources. IT’S HIS JOB. That’s what he’s supposed to do. As long as the source is credable and we get to hear about news before anyone else then who cares??? That’s the mark of a good reporter. Sekou’s given us no reason to beleive otherwise.

Everyone who has seen Smith play knows that he has his flaws. And that they are more mental than about talent. Why would I have a problem with anyone giving an honest critique about a player???

What “Sekou’s Biased” wrote wasn’t a reasonable debate. He simply tried to make it seem like there was something wrong with Sekou (THE REPORTER) having inside sources, and then he continued to bash Josh Smith……which is fine he’s a player. He going to get cricized.

Realist, If you want to come on here and “Reasonably Debate” weather or not Sekou is a credable reporter and is qualified to his job then go right ahead. I’m pretty sure most would agree that Sekou is one of the best Beat writers on the AJC.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

Ray, Terrell, CP You think it was Salim??? Nooooo! It couldn’t have been. Really??? Salim has more class then that, especially since With woody back at the helm he’s not going to play for the Hawks (Deveilsh Grin). He’d want to leave on a positive note Bwahahahaha.

But if Sekou needs a story i’m willing to go on record as a fan and voice my feelings about Woodson. I’m pretty sure that I can adequately sum up Salim’s feelings on the subject Hehehe.

I guessing Solo was the other.

By Ken Strickland

July 16, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

CP-I read that was their intent, but you never know what they will do if the right offer comes along. I think the other person that gave it to Woodson was Zaza.

I wonder what will happen now, considering the FA market for Smoove has all but dried up. It’s highly unlikely the Hawks will have to match a huge frontloaded contract now. If he accepts anything significantly higher than the Hawks $45M offer, it will probably be for reduced yrs. He’ll probably want to become a FA again sooner than later.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Realist, “Sekous’s Biased” also accuse Sekou of Taking sides. What?? Never. Never on THIS BOLG. I can think of a few articles where he Cleverly and descretly let his opinion be known For Example:

(Not a direct quote BTW) “Woodson’s Inability to effectively find a solid role for Salim couased him to slip out of the rotation.”

Also Taking a side is not a crime for a reporter. I’m sure you’ve read the AJC Trolls Blogs(Terrence Moore (being the Ringleader) etc..). They are the most judgemental people on the AJC. Some fans like it and others like the people of this blog make it a priority to let them know how much they don’t appreciate their opinions.

Also “Salim’s Biased”……….Low Blow

BTW JAMES POSEY JUST SIGNED A 4-YEAR DEAL WITH THE NEW ORLEANS HORNETS!!!!!

They’ll be in the finals next season. Their main problem was finding a good replacement when Peja came off the floor. Maybe their going to start him at the 2-Guard Spot??

By Volman

July 16, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Anakin Joe, BIG RAY, CP, thanks so much! It’s been a pretty normal day except I can “cry if I want to!” I think I’m going to cry if this Smoove/Chill situation doesn’t go any faster!

Like Doc said, I’d like to see Kwame out there with Horford at times… Would that mean you’d want Smoove at the 3 spot? I wouldn’t mind having Kwame at the 5 at times with Smoove and Horford out there, but I think Zaza is a lot more of a scoring threat….

By cp

July 16, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

ray”” lol as soon as SS said it was two guys, Salim was the first guy that came to mind. Im guessing the other guy is out of Pachulia or Solo. **SalimFan I cant even say I can blame Salim for letting loose. I know he did not hold back. He probably had a log of all the times he felt Woody had no clue of what he was doing.

Ken good point but I dont think the Clipps would be that dumb to ship Kaman out but if they wanted to I would at least inquire about what it would take to get him.

Melvin I was saying the same thing about Bayless. I think Monta is probably quicker and a little stronger but Bayless looks like he should have been taken higher. I will be following him and the pg that Seattle took closely because I just knew the Sonics were going to take Bayless. I think the kid they took name is Collison or something . I thought he was a reach but I guess i’ll find out in a few years.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

CP I think you’re talking about Russel Westbrook. Then again the Sonics had six freakin’ picks in the best draft in years, who knows what they were thinking.

Taking another 7ft Big Man (they have like 7) when they could have had the lies of CDR or Mario Chalmers???

By ray

July 16, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

kirk, the sword hanging over our heads is wielded by none other than ourselves. If you look to find a censor, the look to your right and left at your fellow bloggers. Not casting blame, just reiterating what Doc said. The AJC put a policy in place that allows for people to request the removal of a post that they find offensive. It’s not often done. I’ve never done it myself, and I have to think that Sekou is way too thick-skinned as a journalist to do it himself. I have seen countless posts that have shamelessly bashed him into virtual oblivion….don’t recall any of them being removed.

I recall a post directed at me that was disgusting in the extreme. Someone else requested it to be removed, and it was. Sorry, but there’s no big brother here, just us. Freedom of speech cuts both ways in this case. But then, who can complain about that when this is virtual space? After all, imagine the consequences of these proceedings in person. Some would simply walk out. Others would brawl. Few would find it worth sticking around for. Fewer than now.

By drmaryb

July 16, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

WOW Camby to the Clips? When are the Hawks & Mr. Sund gonna do somethin” What the FREAK are we waiting for? We needed Camb in here - Can you imagine him & J-Smoove flying around in the paint?

Oh My Bad! We haven’t even signed J-Smoove to his deal yet! Can someone manage this team - please. This ASG has been dead silent!

By fudd21

July 16, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

CP Seattle took Westbrook out of UCLA (Collison’s teammate at UCLA). Reports said beside Durant he was the top player at summer league. But we all know summer league play has little to do with actual season play.

By cp

July 16, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Thank you SalimFan it was Westbrook. He might turn out to be a good pg but Bayless seemed like the perfect fit for them. Does anyone know if our games will be on NBA TV? I would love to watch them.

By cp

July 16, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Preciate that fudd. I knew it was a UCLA pg I just had the wrong one. You are correct about summer league. I remember when Dion Glover looked like a future Hall Of Famer in the summer leauge.

By ray

July 16, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Well, people always tend to react to what they read first.

In the end, it’s a choice of whom you will believe. Some of us will believe the national media. Maybe because they are national. Others will believe the local media. I have to say that I tend to go towards the local. Why? Because Sekou Smith has shown himself over the course of several years to be a very credible writer/reporter with very credible sources. He won’t write it or tell it if he isn’t sure. He puts out the facts, along with rumors that actually have a chance of being fact. He never oversteps or reaches to far. If he doesn’t know it or it’s very confidential, then he won’t print it. I like that over sensationalism.

I’m always good for a rumor or two. But it’s not a fulfilling meal. Besides, I believe Sekou has already addressed these rumors each time. He wouldn’t do it because he’s biased. He’d do it because he knows something. And he prints what he knows. SI and ESPN? They don’t print what they know, they print what they hear. They work their spies and don’t care if the stuff is true or not, just as long as it’s credible enough to put out there. Do you think Marc Stein or Jay Bilas would interview Mike Woodson and see how he feels about Acie, about last season, about the relationship he has with his players? No. Not unless the Hawks are the latest buzz (I think we’d have to suddenly win 60 games or something). But Sekou would. And Sekou does. And so I believe Sekou.

Of course, we could argue all day long about why we choose to believe what we do. I don’t know whether Smith hates Woody or not. Never spoken to him. I’ll take Sekou’s word on the idea that they work well together. Over some national writer who just happened to mention something out of the blue. The article wasn’t even all about Smith. It was about watching the fallout from Elton Brand’s move. Until I hear see it in print from Josh, his agents, his dad, or a more credible source, I’ll take Sekou at his word. My choice.

We will all choose our own beliefs, and our reasons for believing what we do.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Posey Signs 4-yr 25 mill with Hornets

By kirknga

July 16, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

ray

I wasn’t able to read the comments so I am going on the impressions of other which is dangerous.

I’m not defending what the commentor wrote. I would have liked to have been able to judge for myself whether the comment was offense to me or not. Someone made that decision for everyone and that is my main issue.

To me, to be banned, I think the starting threshold should be does it hold any value at all to the topic? (Not if the majority agree with the opinion)Was it profane? On balance was it more attack on the personal characteristics of someone than comment about the topic? Is there a difference from saying Player X makes bad decisions and Player X is a dummy? One is inartful, but out of bounds?

About the AJC policy, I think it is a step in the right direction, but it is censorship and it’s never pretty. The Falcon blog can be ugly ugly ugly. Virtually useless for the fan who puts sports first.

That policy holds for the Braves blog, and DOB takes some big hits everyday about his reporting, his job, his opinions, you name. There are several that attack him and the Braves daily and on a continuous basis.

I find the comments to be nothing but drama, but DOB gives it right back to them and on we go. He takes care of himself and there are few people who feel the need to to lecture the offender because we all see the nonsense for ourselves and the offender is nudged back on topic or is ignored and gets with the program.

Perhaps it’s because there are so many more commentors on the Braves blog that such things don’t really stand out so much.

Anyway, I’m not defending the commenter, it sounds like he did raise some basketball related criticism but I’ll never know for sure because someone else decided they were too offended to let me read what was written.

I am happy that we seem to be slowly moving from doom, gloom, and bleakness to forward looking about our basketball team!

How we going win more than 37 games next season? That what I really want to know.

By doc

July 16, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

volman it was ray that made the observation of brown and horford. the guy can play extended minutes and would allow us to see how horford looks at the 4 for longer periods than allowed now. in fact (my bias noted here) any legit big who can play more than 5 minutes which is all rens had in him. so i did think it and we could always say it is the universal mind which is one of all thought anyway as it all comes from the same source.

with the signing of posey, yup go back and wonder why we still wait to see what our team looks like while others put the finishing touches on theirs. i know because the BASG are doing it the right way this time.

granny is parked, just dont know if she needs IRU assistance at this time.

By Astro Joe

July 16, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

cp, the last few years, NBATV showed games from the Utah Summer League about 5-7 days after the games. So expect to wait before you see the action. I recall listening to one game live on the radio last year, it may have been the first game with Horford and Law. Most likely, we will all have to inspect the box scores and make our own assumptions until we have a chance to see the games a week later.

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 16, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

The one time I submitted a comment removal request, I got a reply from someone who didn’t even have an AJC email address. My understanding is that Sekou has absolutely nothing to do with comment maintenance on this blog, and that the same situation applies to the Falcons blog, Braves blog, etc.

I am really surprised Boston let James Posey go… great pickup for the Hornets who really need some depth on the wing.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Salimfan, Posey is alright, but to say that they’re going to the finals because they added Posey is ridiculous. But that’s why you have your opinions, and I have mine. Right? He had KG, Ray, and Pierce. They might have helped a little bit. And before that he had Shaq and D-Wade. He’s just the Eastern Conference’s version of Robert Horry. Right place at the right time. lol!!

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

CP, I think they start showing the games on Wednesday., the 22nd.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Posey for 4 yrs. IDK about that. And 25 mill? How old will he be in 4 yrs? lol! I like him, but damn. Maybe he gets them over the hump? What do I know?

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

TB, I was just excited for the Hornets. That was a bit of an overstatement on my part lol. I do beleive if thay had Posey last season they would have taken care of the Spurs in thes close losses. Now taking on LA would be a different story.

I’ll just say that they’ll be a favorite for the WCF.

By ray

July 16, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Kirk, I didn’t get to read the comments either. I don’t care much for censorship either, I was just letting you know how things stood as far as AJC’s policy in case you didn’t know. I’ve seen plenty of trashing of Sekou, and none of it removed, so I have no idea what went on in this particular case. Oh well.

Yep, gloom and doom sucks. Looks a bit like it’s lifting, if only for the moment. I’m so looking forward to summer league, training camp, and the possibilities of adding some decent big men, shooters, and whatever else we can use to our team.

Astro Joe, you’ve got it exactly right. The games were delayed by a number of days and box scores were the only thing we had to go on…

By Samuel

July 16, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

Let us not forget that the AJC owns this blog and they have the right to pull whatever they want. Sure we have freedom of speech but not in someone elses house. I didn’t see the comments nor do I care to but if i’m out of line, I expect to be yanked.

Somebody mentioned J Bayless. The kid is gonna be a star for somebody and also the other guy from Finland, Kaponen. Bayless is relentless. Bayless and B Roy will seriously break down a defense. They will have some serious problems finding enough minutes for all that talent. Portland is seriously stocking up. This will be the Franchise of the future.

By ray

July 16, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

Sam, a lot of us feel that way, and have been saying it for well over a year. Of course, that was when we were being laughed at, and people were pointing to Oden’s delayed debut….

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Kobe Supporting Kwame when he was booed

Here’s a article covering the whole incident….no Kobe plug in this one.

Hang tight, i’ve got more on the way.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

O.K Tis one a video of The Incident.

Everything goes down in Pt.1 so don’t even worry about Pt.2 on the side over there. In Pt.2, The TNT commentators are just talking about how bad Kwame’s getting heckled and the fact that Phil is sticking with him and not taking him out of the game……baisically they felt bad about the whole situation.

Check out this Jerk-Off with his own camerea at the game giving Kwame a hard time.

What a moron. That’s just classless. If I was at that game and was sitting near that guy, i’d personally tell him to STFU…….WAIT, the whole Gym was booing. Looks like I would have been out numbered lol.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

Kobe’s parting wods to Kwame, lot’s of heart

OK THIS IS GETTING OUT OF HAND. I’M WATCHING SPORTS CENTER AND THEY JUST HAD A SEGMENT SAYING THAT SMOOVE WILL NOT COME BACK TO ATL IF WOODSON IS THE COACH OF THE TEAM!!!!!!!! THEN THEY ASKED JACKIE MACMULLIN(REPORTER…..BOSTON GLOBE I BELEIVE) TO WEIGH IN ON THE SUBJECT. THIS IS PURE GARBAGE.

THIS DOESN’T SOUND LIKE JOSH AT ALL SORRY KIRK, REALIST. I’M SIDING WITH SEKOU ON THIS ONE. LIKE I SAID, HAS SEKOU EVER GIVEN YOU A REASON TO DOUBT HIS INVESTIGATIVE SKILLS???

SMOOVE WOULDN’T SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND BURN BRIDGES LIKE THAT. HE’S SAMRTER THAN THAT. STUPID ASSOCIATED PRESS ALWAYS FABRICATING THINGS.

I bet someone kept saying that stupid rumor so much that people started using it as fact.

By Zach

July 16, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

Smith makes public he will not play for Hawks if Woodson is head coach!!! As reported on Sports Center!!!!!

By jhan

July 16, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith has no choice but to come back if the Hawks want him. I suppose he could decide to sit out the year. He could come back and play like crap next year to “stick it” to the Hawks. How well would that sit with other teams around the league.

Whatever circumstances he plays under next year he must show maximum effort & continued basketball growth. Otherwise his next contract will be for the MLE or lower.

He is not in a position of power any longer. No teams have the cap space to offer a contract the Hawks won’t match. If he walks around pouting & plays like s**t next year, he is the one who will lose out.

I agree with Kirk on this one, the ASG played this correctly OR they got lucky with having 2 RFA’s in this current market. Either way its seems like a winning outcome.

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 16, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

I don’t trust anything ESPN says unless it’s backed up by someone else, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Josh feels that way about Woody though. Even if he doesn’t personally dislike Woodson, if nearly everyone on this blog can see that Woody is holding back this team, why can’t Josh? And if he does see that, why would Josh wanna commit the next few years of his career to being in a situation where his team won’t significantly improve?

The PAIN from the DASG on down continues…

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Hey Salimfan, how can they match up with Bynum, Gasol, Odom(or Artest) and Kobe Dean? Or even Duncan, Parker and Ginobli? Or even Deron, Boozer, and Kirilenko? And dont sleep on Shaq, Amare, and Nash. This is probably their last run. And dont forget about the Tralblazers either. No way the Hornets are the favorites out West. No way. Plus they’ll probably lose Pargo. Believe it or not, he became one of their goto guys. But like I said earlier, what do I know? I see New Orleans as a 5 or 6 seed next year. Last year might have been a bit of an admiration. With all that said CP3 is a BEAST! lol!

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Ray, your 5:03 post says it all.

TB, Why’d you have to go and throw out names lol. Now i’m not so sure. With any luck, the Western confrence will be much more interesting this season, HOPEFULLY lol.

I completely forgot about Bynum. I guess this will go to the Lakers again (1st in the West that is). I’m almost sure of that considering how Dallas and Pheonix fell flat after their trades.

The Clippers would have made things interesting if they weren’t so stingy with the cash. Davis, Mobley, Magette, Brand, Kaman. Plus Gordon and thorton off the bench……..now that’s a team that would have given people nightmares.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

O.K Here’s the most recent Kwame mix I could find. Please excuse the song. It’s really not meant for a B-Ball mix(Maybe WNBA)

If the song made you frown here’s rapper Camron and Damon Dash Vs. Bill O’Rielly. If this doesn’t make you smile then I don’t know what will.(The O’Rielly Factor)

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

I seriously don’t like(i’m being nice) Bill O’Rielly

This should give you a full understanding of what happend.

By Sekou K. Smith

July 16, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

I had no idea the censorship police trolled this board, it’s about time they showed up. Wish they’d get rid of a few more nasty comments. Sorry I missed all the action, I was at the practice court watching the last summer league scrimmage the media will get to see before the team heads to Salt Lake City tomorrow afternoon (other than Jeremy Richardson going down with what appeared to be a turned ankle, there was nothing major that took place, the coaches and front office staff met afterward to finalize the travel roster for Salt Lake City and we should know who made the cut sometime tomorrow afternoon).

Listen, I don’t mind anyone knocking anyone else’s opinion, reporting, spies, flaming or anything else around here. Do whatever makes you happy, within good taste. I’m certainly happy to debate any topic raised here, provided there’s a modicum of sense to the topic being raised by the other side.

What we try to stay away from around here is the racist and sexist foolishness that can drag a healthy discussion down the drain. It’s just a waste of everyone’s time and a totally unproductive adventure.

As for my sources, if anyone’s wondering, I’d never reveal them. If you’re constantly guessing who they are that means they’re being protected properly.

But trust that I would never put forth anything frivolous just to rile up the masses. I can’t do that with the Hawks because they hold me accountable for everything I write (Speedy Claxton was none too happy today about being referred to as the “artist formerly known as Speedy Claxton”). Sometimes they laugh at what they read and other times they’re ready to debate it the minute I walk through the door. But understand, they read the blog daily and are kept up to date by friends and family about what’s being said (I know because I hear about it all the time, in fact several of the players would love to get their hands on a few of you but I told them that most of you are using anonymous screen names and that we don’t all sit at Starbucks after practice and come up with this stuff). And I’m not hiding either. I don’t write anything I can’t back up face-to-face.

That’s actually the beauty of what I do and the difference between what I do and what some of the national cats do, and I’m not knocking Si.com or anyone else for putting forth what they believe to be a story (besides, many of those guys are good friends of mine and have plenty of good sources of their own). But I have to be here everyday, making sure that whatever I write is on point. And I’ll put my sources on the Hawks up against anyone else’s anywhere.

This whole mess is much like other overblown stories that have come out about this team in the past (you remember the old Zaza putting Josh Smith in a headlock deal from a couple years back), sometimes it’s something that was barely a big deal being blown up 100 times over as it gets passed around the league.

It’s funny, the most common response at practice today from nearly everyone who knows both Woodson and Smith was “where the he$$ did this guy come up with this story?”

Everyone knows that Woodson and Smith had dust ups in the past but that stuff is such ancient history that to bring it up now is almost comical (or sinister, depending on your point of view). It’s a bit embarrassing that anyone even has to address this stuff now because it’s such a non-story.

Woodson seemed more insulted by it than anything else, wondering if any of the “pundits” had actually talked to him or Smith rather than believing what someone else said about them and their relationship.

By MannyT

July 16, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Lot’s of my stuff goes down the gremlin hole. I doubt it’s offensive, but it may have unapproved linkages.

Birthday wishes to doc and Volman

Anyhow, back to hoops stuff.

I have a simple theory on all the Josh-Woody issues.

If Josh were your client and you wanted to get him in play, why not give others a reason to think he is more likely to leave. As Astro Joe would say, follow the money!

I could see the agent letting such a story leak through his connections. The less he is tied to Atlanta, the more likely you can get an offer for your RFA.

That’s good agent CRAP.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Damn, the Sixers are stacked at the 2, the 3, the 4, and the 5. Willie Green/Louis Williams Iggy/Thaddeous Brand/Reggie Evans/Maurice Speights Dalembert/Jason Smith And everyone killed them for trading AI. Look at em now. You see people, you have to give up something, to get something. That’s why I always said that I did’nt want to lose Josh Smith, but if it makes the overall team better, I’m all for it. If AI can be dealt out of Philly, anyone can be dealt.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Sekou, Thanks for setting the record stright.

Sekou As far as the shooters are concerned, are their any early favorites??

BTW, do you have any info on what Salim’s been up to? I’ve heard his name mentioned in a Nets article last week. Salim and Matt Barnes have the same agent so apparently the agent (Aaron Goodwin I beleive) was shopping around both players.

By JamFan

July 16, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

I heard a rumor that Josh Smith is now going to demand a trade to the LA Clippers for Marcus Camby. If not, he will only sign a one year deal and become an unrestricted FA.

By JamFan

July 16, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

I heard a rumor that Josh Smith is now going to demand a trade to the LA Clippers for Marcus Camby. If not, he will only sign a one year deal and become an unrestricted FA.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Manny, That’s probably true. But that’s some very Risky dealin’ were talking about.

What about Smoove’s reputation??? I understand you can’t get much worse than what Shaq just did, Or the Kobe Trial, or Even Ron Artest and his constant antics. But the fans of Atlanta don’t need to see another one of our superstars(Vick) reputations dragged through the mud.

By mykhalc

July 16, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

happy b’day DOC and VOLMAN!!!

back to exile i go!!!

and since we know that the cats read the blog, i’ll say again…WOODSON you $uck as a HC…PERIOD!!!!

By Sekou K. Smith

July 16, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Thomas Gardner stood out to me as the most impressive shooter of any type during the on-court work I saw. He’s got the size and the range on his shot that the Hawks’ desperately need. But I don’t know who else covets him and I don’t know if the Hawks have the inside track or not. But if I had to bet on one guy from this crew (one not already on the roster) showing up for veteran’s camp in October, it would be Gardner.

Josh Smith and the Clippers are done. There will be no trade. And I haven’t spoken to Salim in weeks. But I will have to track him down and see what his plans are going forward. He’ll land somewhere. Shooters like that can always find work.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Sekou, Also is the J-Rich injury Serious???

By ntrigue

July 16, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Is it me but I keep reading comments that we should let Solo go or that he did not play good last year. Majority of games I saw Solo play which was with very limited PT I saw what he will be if given a chance to get some quality minutes. He is a devastating shot blocker, can rebound, and does not back down from anybody. Yeah I know everyone keeps saying he needs to bulk up which is true and this will only help his game. Overall the kid will give us the defenive help that was missing last year we got killed by opponents in te paint anytime Josh was out the game. Solo would take a lot load off of Josh Smith on def and opponents would really not want to come in our paint when they are both on the court at the same time.

Sekou any thoughts on this???

By MannyT

July 16, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Matt Going back to the Camby thing, he did not have a trade kicker, but a performance incentive clause that increased his pay. Not sure what that does to his official salary regarding trades. But I am 99% comfortable that you can trade 8 mil in salary for (8 mil - 100k then divide by 1.25 =) 6.32 mil. We had that much pure cap space.

Not that POB was top of list, but another free agent center bites the dust.

Maybe we can lure Keith van Horne away from whatever he does while quasi-retired ;-)

s l o w P A I N c o n t i n u e s

By mykhalc

July 16, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

oh yeah, i sent WOODSON some new plays to go along with the rest of the blank pages in his playbook!!! RIDICULOUS!!!

and i wouldn’t fault SMOOVE one bit if he did NOT wanna come back ‘cause of WOODSON. shows smarts on his part and that his b’ball IQ is steadily improvin’!!!

By MannyT

July 16, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

SalimFan this is why they have agents to insulate themselves. I doubt Smith suggested the idea. I doubt the words came out of the mouth of his primary agent. I can envision the guy that knows the guy that knows the agent said it…with specific instructions on how to overhear it and share it with the media.

I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I could see it happening.

mykhalc good to see you. I notice that the Warriors summer team will play in Las Vegas and Utah. You get more summer action to check out than most.

If the team actually read this stuff, I could see someone using the obscure bench folks to send a message. Imagine some unknown guy in a suit on the 2nd row wearing a tie that said Fire Clyde If asked why, he’d answer, coach gave me the tie and I wore it.

WAF

By Kevin Willis

July 16, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

First time post.

I remember a few years ago on we had Raja Bell and Udonis Haslem on our summer roster. They turned out ok and as a steal for other teams. Hopefully, some of these guys may be the right fit for us.

I have read Houston is looking at another minor trade to include Novak/Luther Head and they may throw in Dorsey b/c he has not signed, they are looking for a center in return. Novak is lights out from downtown.

Does anyone remember Maurice Evans from the Magic, he was their SG, good shooter esp. against us. He is a FA and has not signed yet.

The Hawks in my opinion could use another back to the basket player. We may not be able to acquire that and I know Horford will only get better, but I would like to see us put Marvin on the block more. I remember a few games when he’d post his guy up on the block and score or get fouled, he’s an excellent FT shooter.

We need do add depth, no way we can rely on the same 6 to play the majority of the minutes for 82 games. Look at Boston, they fully trusted their bench.

Go Hawks!

By Astro Joe

July 16, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

MannyT, my guess is that they are trying to “punk” Sund into a S & T to get more moeny for their client. Hawks will only pay what the ASG can afford. But if there is another team out there willing to pay more, then Smith’s agents need to try to force a trade. I believe Sekou but I also am pretty certain that agents will do almost anything to get a bigger commission check.

One other thing, MannyT, I keep reading that Denver received a $10M trade exemption. Doesn’t that mean that Camby had a $10M salary cap hold on his contract?

By mykhalc

July 16, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

MannyT, man i’m sooooo uninspired by this team so far this summer!!! BASG’s motto….WRCIWOTC (WE REALLY CAN IMPROVE WHILE ON THE CHEAP)

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 16, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Figures, when Bill O’Reilly invites a rapper onto his show he invites the biggest idiot (Cam’ron) in the entire rap game.

By Sekou K. Smith

July 16, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Solo is a solid prospect but he needed to make an appearance on the summer league team to assert himself and maintain his position on this roster. The bottom line is he’s a minimum salary second-round pick that most teams would part ways with rather than take the time to develop. I love his potential and think he could be a steal if he gets strong enough to play consistent minutes. But with a new regime evaluating guys on the regular, he’s lost a major chance to make an impression by choosing not to play summer league ball.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

Dribble, dribble, dribble(T-Lue), signed with Milwaukee.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

So is Solo na dSalim both outta here Sekou?

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

So is Solo and Salim both outta here Sekou? Sorry bout that.

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

TB, Lol T-Lue I must say is an exellent Backup.

TB, I know you knew Salim was gone. Solo still has a year left to say on his contract. The danger for him is if the Hawks find him expendable and buy out his 650K or whatever it may be and just go in a different direction.

I wouldn’t buy him out, I just wouldn’t put him on the final roster (if it’s really apperant that he’s overmatched by his big man counterparts) and just trade him for something. Like that Phantom Keith Van-Horn.

By Sekou K. Smith

July 16, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Oh, I don’t think Solo is outta here by any stretch. I just think he might have missed an opportunity to solidify his spot. Salim is an unrestricted free agent …

By legalbuzz

July 16, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

ESPN Sportscenter reporting that Smith doesn’t want to sign here if Woodson is still coach. Wonder if he refuses all deals and takes the qualifying offer (allowing him to leave next year and basically forcing us to trade him or risk getting nothing).

By Horford Rox

July 16, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Seeing somebody post as “Kevin Willis” reminds me of the glory days. I had one of those “Hugs, not Drugs” records, with Hawks players “singing” on it.

Wish I could get into a time machine, travel backwards, and watch Spudd, Doc, Willis, and Wilkins take on anyone at the Omni. Those were the days!

BTW, I still HATE Laimbeer! (I know, let it go, Rox…No thanx!)

Go Hawx…Keep #5 Flyin’ high in Atl!!

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

Sekou, Other than Marvin WAISTING PRECIOUS TRAINING TIME (J/K) Coaching teams at that RBK camp last week. Has he gotten with anyone to improve his game this off-season???

By MannyT

July 16, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc I’ve been triple posting to get one through. I tried to answer your question which was similar to Matt’s last night.

Something I’m doing is not approved. I’m confident it’s not the words, so it must be the links.

Camby is a non-simultaneous trade. His salary jumped up 2 mil because his contract has performance incentives in it. Not sure if they still do them per the most recent collective bargaining agreement.

You can check out this site for a bit more detail. Maybe it’s not in the same news family, but I’m not linking it because I’ve had lots of disappearing posts.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/15/nuggets-ship-camby-clippers-draft-pick/

This one gives the admin detail behind the type of trade that was done for Camby.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#69

If I can’t link, I may as well find something else to do besides blog here. It’s like telling SalimFan to stop looking at YouTube ;-)

If Solo doesn’t do the right thing, I can see him getting the Tony Delk treatment from a few years back. Always on the inactive list or DNP-coaches decision.

WAF

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

Yes!!! 6/6 Baby!!!!

Drew Neitzel Playing for the Timberwolves summerleauge

Derrick Low (WSU) Playing for the Mavs summerleauge

At least all of my gus made it to summerleauge. But I ALWAYS get my guys in summerleauge. Making the final roster and STICKING is the real test.

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

I know Salim’s unrestricted, but if were supposedly looking for a shooter, why not re-sign him?

By terrell barron

July 16, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

I know Salim’s unrestricted, but if were supposedly looking for a shooter, why not re-sign him? Oh I forgot, the coach does’nt like him either. Maybe Woody’s the problem, and not the players. Ever thought of that?

By MannyT

July 16, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

I have no problem with improving the team on the cheap, but there are lots of cheap options that have walked on by us. That’s why we need an APB on Sund & granny. I think her Pinto either broke down or blew up on the way to court some free agents.

Trying a link to old Camby deal chatter from last year. I think BK might have been in the Camby mix if still around.

I am excited about the summer league. Not because I know the players, but it will be good to see some Hawks related action. I don’t think you see a lot of big man action in summer league.

Woody was out and about today. On the radio (missed it) and I just saw him on TV few minutes ago. This must be his press day, He was talking about the need to get the Joshes back in Hawks uniforms.

BWAF

By SalimFan

July 16, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

Hahaha MannyT yeah I learned my lesson the hard way about Triple Posting links lol. I was really annoyed. You can Link manny but in twosies’ only though lol.

Maaan, what would I do without YouTube (Shivers at the potential nightmare) lol.

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

Hey I’m getting link love!

I’m almost as giddy as ray was at the start of this blog.

Time to quit for the night while I am ahead.

…and why can’t Marvin get a little time off. If he’s coaching at Reebok camp, he can still get a bunch of shots up every day. It’s not like he was at the World Series of Poker, sitting around a table all day.

For the which big man do you bring in question, I’m not a fan of either, but I think Kwame Brown will contribute more than Randolph Morris over the next few years…but he probably has a higher price too.

SUPPLE

By Dr. De

July 17, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

I a trade of Bibby, Speedy, & ZaZa for Marbury & David Lee possible/likely?

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

SalimFan I had about 5 Camby links going last night. It took me awhile to get it together. When it all tanked, I just gave up for the night.

I felt like Roberto Duran - No Mas.

terrell Don’t get mykhalc started about Woody…

Coaching PAIN

By Kevin Willis

July 17, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

Kevin Willis!! Those were good days.

Let’s add to the list: John Battle Cliff Levingston Antione Carr

Should I mention the later run of Alexander Volkov!!

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

I didn’t even think about Marvin getting up shots in his spare time lol. I’m not thinking straight. It’s probably time for me to call it a day too lol.

I just had this puicture in my head of him Sittng on the pine watching his players…….My bad marvin lol.

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

Manny, That’s exatly what happend to me. It was during the playoffs and I had five links set up for you guys, and then presto!! It all dissapeared. I thought I was being attacked by the Blog Police.

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

I’ve got UPDATES!!!! More Summerleauge Action!!!!

Maurecce Speights is a BEAST He’s got a better stroke than Horford

Mayo with 28 Points

By Horford Rox

July 17, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this

“Kevin Willis,”

Guess I should have made my point a little more clear. My goofy “Those were the days” statement was in reference to the entertaining Hawx squads of the 80’s. The dudes I listed were guys I grew up respecting and had fun watching play basketball.

Sorry to trigger your sarcastic response.

“Sasha” Volkov? Come on, man…I don’t have time for this. Thanx for the headache.

Go Hawx!

By Horford Rox

July 17, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

Great! I’m out of aspirin.

By BA

July 17, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

I’ve said this before and I’ll keep saying it- the whole Josh Smith/basketball IQ thing is a steaming pile of crap. He handles the ball well, he finds his teammates for shots, and he plays more defense than anybody on the Hawks team. If you watched every game (like I did) how could you reach any other conclusion?

Secondly (and I know this has BEEN disscussed) I’ve never gotten the impression that Sekou Smith is bias for the Hawks. But even if he were, SO WHAT? He’s an NBA beat writer. We’re not talking Watergate here.

Third, (and doc said this better) if this ghost of a paper wants to delete something, so be it. They’re the people who, you know, PAY for this website.

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

Bayless With 28 Points

Here’s that Mayo dunk from a side view angle. It looks really nasty from this angle

By mykhalc

July 17, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

MannyT, CHEAP is a mindset that is NO.1 priority for this franchise!!! and the ONLY team that has produced a champion with that minset has been the MARLINS. everyone else has failed!!! so while i don’t mind the HAWKS bein’ cost conscious in their buildin’, CHEAP is a mindset that will keep them right where that at…pickin’ from the left-overs or D-league…and WOODSON as HC!!!

i feel an exile comin’ on!!!!

By ray

July 17, 2008 1:51 AM | Link to this

I still believe what Sekou tells me. I’ll say it again: until it comes from Josh, his pops, or directly out of the mouths of one of his agents, I’m not tryin’ to hear it.

Anyway, either he wants to be here, or he doesn’t. Either he stays, or he doesn’t. We as fans get to deal with the fallout, no matter what it ends up being.

Najeh, on O’Reilly and Cam’ron: you have to wonder whether or not that wasn’t done on purpose. Nevermind. No need to wonder….get my drift?

BA, well said. Very well said.

Doc, I honestly can’t remember if I told you happy birthday. In case I didn’t: HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY!!

MannyT, ahhh…those were the boxing days. Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvelous Marvin Haggler, Thomas Hearns. Back when there was actual competition. Now, boxing is dying a rough death. Mixed Martial Arts is where it’s at. I’ve preferred that style of physical unarmed combat anyway….but boxing used to be great. I don’t pay much attention anymore. I do enjoy the MMA fights though. A lot to learn there.

I don’t see anything wrong with Marvin Williams doing community and charity type work. All of these guys should be involved at some level or another. Nothing wrong with going back to school either.

Sekou, I’ll bet some of the players do want to get their hands on some of us, LOL!! Ah well, you’ll have this. I’d tell them though…not many guys are good at brawling with the general public. Barkley always was, and most people know Ron Artest is both strong and crazy. Paul Pierce probably thought he was a real thug ‘til his a$$ got stabbed. I know that’s not funny…but take it at face value. Betcha Sheldon wasn’t lookin’ to get jacked at the barber shop either. Gotta be careful, so many treacherous people out there. Stephen Jackson found that out at the strip joints….

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 2:34 AM | Link to this

Hahahaha!!!! Ray stop i’m bustin’ my guts over here. That paul Pierce bit was too much for my lungz lol.

I feel you though. I stand behied anything I say on here. Besides i’m not one to Bash people anyway coughstevocough. Well maybe woodson and like i’ve alredy said. I’d LOVE to sit down and discuss the method behiend the Madness that is WAF.

Pierce found out first hand. It’s rough out there without the Refs to back you up lol.

Oooh this mkes me think of a link hhehehehe you’re gonna love this.

The Shannon Brown Bouncer Throwdown

It made me mad though cause Shannon is one of my guys and to see him get treated like that is just wrong. Shannon doesn’t seem like the type to go looking for fights either.

Yup, being big doesn’t mean a thing. There’s some Grimey people out there WHO REALLY DON’T GIVE A DAMN, and there’s not enough “i’m from tha hood fake gangsa posturing” in the world to stop them.

O’Rielly knows what he’s doing the F*. Until he put’s entertainers from the opposite side of the fence like Common on there to talk about these issues i’ve got nothing to say to that cockroach. He’s gotta eat though. Can’t knock his hustle. He get’s paid to be an idiot aand drag people through the mud, just like Don Imus.

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this

Ray, Dawg, don’t even go there with the MMA talk. You’re just tempting me to whip out the Kimbo Slice Videos lol.

Especially since that Recent James Toney, Hasim Rahman fight was coplete DUD (TKO that should have been a no contest ruling…..big conteversey). No one good left. the heavyweights are all washed up.

By ray

July 17, 2008 2:55 AM | Link to this

Yep. Boxing is just about dead. Kimbo Slice is a mean mutha….

As for our players, I don’t think any of them deserve any real bashing. And they’re all good guys. Coincidence or not, they keep their noses clean. Gotta like that.

By Mikeal

July 17, 2008 2:57 AM | Link to this

Sekou I do not like telling anyone what to do in anything especially thei job. I know you might have respect for others in your profession. I am calling how it is. Ric Bucher is lieing out of his beep and we all know it. No one is there to challenge this fool BS. He will continue to spill it and we will continue to gullible fans who refuse to believe the truth you wrote and believe what BS reporters such as Bucher spill.

Only way to come even close to countering this BS. We probably need you to write an article with Smoove,Woodson, anyone else involved. I heard Smith’s father was P.O. when he heard this. A blog entry just isn’t good enough because of the people out there who will believe what Bs reporters such as Bucher feeds them instead of you who actually covers the team.

Of course the quickest way to end all of this is for ASG to sign Smoove right away. We know with this ownership. They are in no hurry to do anything.

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 3:21 AM | Link to this

Yeah, I like the guys on our team very grounded group of guys. I could hang with em. Especially smoove he’s an X-Box guy. I’m a PlayStation guy myself but games are games. Just give me a stick and i’m good to go. Madden or Halo it doesn’t matter.

Makes me think of the Brawl at the Palace. I was in front of the Big Screen with my XL Peperoni pizza from Pizza Hut and my 2 liter sprite watching Artest and Steven Jackson (Bad combination for PR pourposes lol) raise hell in the plalace.

Good times lol.

By doc

July 17, 2008 7:08 AM | Link to this

ah salim the good life … man i remember when i used to get a gigi’s pizza pepperoni xl to go with a six pack to sit back and watch the monday night game with a college buddy, back when cosell was relevant and wait for dandy don to sing “turn out the lights” so i could head to the rack and call it a night. simpler times. just dont have a you tube of it to share but i might have an 8 track to send you of lou rawls. now there was a pure soul voice. btw the gigi’s on buford made the best pizza and crust was literally thrown right in front of your eyes. maybe you could find me a thrown pizza link. heh heh

BA cool on the jive about smith. he doesnt have the iq maybe of bird but most of his goofs are of aggression not of bad iq. mistake to think otherwise and a bad rap in my opinion, avg iq maybe but not the worst and again attributed to aggression not due to everyday lackadaisical play. as far as hawks i can shake my head at jj a bit too with what he has tried to execute. sometimes goofs are thinking you are beer than you really are. that same mindset also allows you to sometimes do the impossible which is what smith occasionally does.

gee, sekou since most of our tirades are about the leadership it must mean the baby hawks really love their coach if they are willing to go to battle for him.

By RealSquawk

July 17, 2008 7:18 AM | Link to this

why am I hearing on sportscenter that Josh Smith does not want to return to the Hawks if Mike Woodson is the coach

why?

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

SalimFan I’m big on the Wii. It allows multigenerational game play. I also like the attempt to match the controlling motion with the actual playing motion. However, I did have a Halo 2/Xbox phase that was always good for letting loose.

One reason to give the NBA guys a year after high school before coming into the league.

A chance to learn the difference between ballers and brawlers. Did you see the arms on those security guards in the Shannon Brown video. While NBA guys are athletic, the vast majority are slim.

As for boxing, you had your personality of a generation in Ali. I think he drew interesting folks into the sport. Now that you are 30 years beyond him, those coat tails of interest are long gone. When you look at sports as businesses that compete for the entertainment dollar, you have to draw attention to get the marketing revenue. That’s the true beauty of NASCAR. Those fans will burn a hole in a wallet buying all their stuff and the drivers are always pushing those sponsor names out there.

I’d like to thank the AJC, ASG, Nintendo for this post.

Marketing CRAP matters ;-)

By John

July 17, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

What is the deal with Smith on Sportscenter? Why are we not hearing anything else. It was reported the other day that the feud between them was well overblown. I am starting to feel like we are going to lose Smith and Childress. I have stuck by the Hawks through all this mess. Why is nothing happening? ASG is going to screw up any momentum we have going into next season. I am uneasy about Sund, and actually wish KNight was still around. I think he would have already made things happen.

By Astro Joe

July 17, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Interesting perspective in the Speedy article from Woody, “he either can play or he can’t play anymore”. Sounds like Speedy and management have decided to use the SL to determine if they will go the forced retirement route. Thus, the “crossroads” headline. I’m guessing if they pursue this, his salary would come off the books next summer. About $25M could potentially be gone between Bibby, Zaza and Speedy for the ‘09-10 season. The newly crowned owners will have a nice pot of money to make a splash (Rasheed Wallace?).

I’m hoping that working out Kwame and Morris is a sign that we are ready to sign a big. Why have them work-out for us if it will take another 2-3 weeks to resolve the Joshes. With the Hawks having their season-ticket event in about 2 weeks, maybe they are trying to get their roster close to set (excluding any SL players who may stick) to entice more ticket sales. My prediction is that we will see something by Tuesday.

By ray

July 17, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

The more I think about this, the more I think the Hawks haven’t made either Josh an offer. At all. No, I don’t have any proof. But now would be the time….wouldn’t it?

That has nothing to do with Woodson. It has everything to do with ASG. 5/45 was a low ball offer. Then, he was allowed to test the market to see what the price would be. Now there’s no price. It’s all dried up because you never can tell which way the dominoes will fall. They fell differently than expected. So now what? The next logical step in my mind is to make offers to both players again, and get something worked out from there. Unless of course, they’re trying to get rid of either or both Joshes. In which case, I’ll say it again. You better get something that makes this team better, in return. And by the way….more cap space doesn’t make this team better. Especially when you have no hope of really making a “splash” in the FA market in the next year or two. Nobody wants to come to a team that can’t or won’t even re-sign its own players, especially two of it’s top players. This is about money and always has been. Not about a player’s specific talents or problems. Not about a coach and his problems. It’s about money.

Speaking of which…if the ASG is willing (or should I say able), to pay for everybody’s salary (including our two RFAs), then I say keep Bibby around for the year. He’s got plenty of skills and should be healthy this season. If the money ain’t there….then you gotta choose. All about the money.

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Manny T, I said be careful what you ask for, when everybody wanted BK gone. lol! However, Sund has’nt really dissappointed me yet. Although I’ll admit, there’s no freakin way he shoulda let Jarvis Hayes sign with the Nets before making him an offer. He woulda loved to play in his home state. But when you have restricted free agents, I imagine it’s kinda difficult to get much done outside of that. Especially when you dont have much cap space. And btw, Sund came into a pretty good situation,(besides the owner thing) if you ask me. All we really need is a couple of defensive minded bigs, and a couple of 3 pt threats, and we’re set. Hopefully he’ll get us what we need. If you look at his record, you’ll see that he clearly knows that you need some beef in the middle in this league to be successful. Now some of his picks or signees might have failed, but you cant say he did’nt try. I really think if BK was still here, next year woulda been the year that he finally went BIG in the draft. He had all of his WINGs. lol! He’d already started the process with Horford. Now Rick Sund just has to add the finishing touches.

By fudd21

July 17, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Dr. De Any trade involving Marbury coming to the Hawks I am against. He is a cancer and would do nothing positive to our young players. Marbury has not won any place he has gone and Phoenix and Jersey got better after he left. Definitely NO on bringing him in.

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Come on Salimfan, its summer league. Marvin was MVP. Remember? Speights look terrific, but so did a lot of players.

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Salimfan, thats why I made that comment about Philly being deep at ever position. Think about when we play Philly. Smoove(if signed) will have to contain Brand/Reggie Evans/Speights. Tough task. We better get a couple of big bodies, no doubt.

By STRETCH

July 17, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Hope things work out this offseason, they need some big men and in a bad way. They need develop some sense of urgency here!

Posey just went to New Orleans, Camby to the Clips and lots of other teams are making moves, but….ASG what a waste!

The way things are going now it doesnt look like upper management has even attempted to make the Joshes any kind of offer. Wonder why this organization will never win anything?!

They are still sitting on their butts trying to go the cheap route so they make sure they pocket the money! Any other team would have made at least one of them an offer buy now!

By doc

July 17, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

maybe if i were josh smith’s agent i would be looking for a loop hole in the contract and maybe begin fishing in the euro league for euro dollars. i am sure he could make more money there and maybe serve his time and become a free agent or make it know that he is not for the lowest bidder.

a lot of ra’s in the same boat right now. it will be interesting how it all falls out. again there is so much of it that it seems that there may be some home cooking ownership style. any rf’a signing anywhere?

By John

July 17, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Why are we getting not information about Smith? The story broke on ESPN last night and it is now past noon.

By ray

July 17, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Because John, this isn’t what it seems. It reeks of sports agent. Sports agent trying to generate interest in his client. I guess I would too if my client’s team wasn’t even making any offers. Now the poker game is between player and organization. Remember, Sund said they would match any offer. He didn’t say they would make an offer. Now would be the time to do so….

C’mon Sund and ASG, prove me wrong about you. I’d be happy to see it. Or make a trade that makes this team better (although I don’t see how)…

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Stretch, Deng has no offer yet. Neither does Iggy or Okafur.

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

The Mavericks have offered Jerry Stackhouse and Brandon Bass to Sacremento for Ron Artest. However the Kings dont expect to accept because they want Josh Howard instead of Stackhouse. Can you blame em? lol!

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Josh turned down 5 yrs. 45 million. I cant blame him for that. Look at the year he had. GREAT MOVE by Smoove. But look at Deng and Gordon. Deng turned down 5 yrs. 57 mill. and Gordon 5 yrs. 50 million. And now Gordon is probably gone, and wont get that much when he does find a home. Who’s going to pay 10 mill a year for a small 2 guard who’s a streak shooter? And Deng was injured a lot last year, so his stock also drooped. Not as much as Gordon’s, but close to it. They both made horrible decisions. Especially Gordon. He’ll probably get the mid-level. lol!!

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

I think all the major RFAs got some kind of offer a year ago. Most did not accept, but some did (Al Jefferson 5 yrs/$65 mil). Note how his agent said he too could get a max deal. Every agent seems to know you should be a lottery pick and a Max salary player. Good grief. Are all these players as smart as Chrlie Brown when they hire Lucy as their agent. Don’t close your eyes before kicking the football.

Other players turned down bigger deals than 5 for $45 mil (Igoudala/Okafor/Gordon). All of them could end up with less than their summer 2007 offer if the teams play hardball with them.

I think Josh was correct to say no to 5/45, but I’d suspect that Al Jefferson’s deal (5/65) is the ceiling for all these RFAs if you want to get guys to focus on signing sooner instead of later. With Josh being the top RFA available, I’d expect him to get the better deal, but in restricted competition, that does not have to occur.

As agent, I’d look into doc’s idea. Can you go Euro for a year or two and capture that exchange rate differential? If you can and return as an unrestricted free agent, then that is the next negotiating move. If you are still RFA when you return, you have to balance your desires. At current rates 6.5 mil Euro is about $10 mil US.

If the player is Euro shy, then look into the quickest early termination option you can get to go unrestricted.

My Arliss CRAP

By TheHawksFan

July 17, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Micah Hart says Big Wayne is Out. Hamstring.J Rich out with ankle till Monday. SL team still should be strong. I wish Solo was playing though.

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

I did’nt know that Tyronne Hill and Jim Todd were added to Woodson’s staff. I guess I missed that. Was’nt Hill like a volunteer assistant last year? Gonna be hard to repace Fizdale and Herb with these two. Good luck though.

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

And what in the hell has Alton Lister done? Is he still around?

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

It looks like we were thinking alike Manny T. lol!

By HHoops

July 17, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith should ask for higher but be willing to settle for a 3 year 30 M. contract with a 4th year player option. That way he can test the waters again when he is 25 years old and a better/more experienced player. The Hawks will probably go for that once the negotiating is over.

Josh Childress should get all he can get. Probably the MLE is going to be the top for him.

By I.MUS WRITE

July 17, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Okay I think we can stop biting our nails now. Rick sund just left my work like 15 minutes ago and assured my boss -without even a pause that the Hawks organization will keep both of the joshes-period point blank.

I think salim is all but gone -gardner may be a good replacement with his size and range -things are looking up.

Joshes resigned healthy speedy??? Adding 2 big men

If speedy is coming back-i hope that doesnt cut into team chemistry or Acies minutes

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Similar thoughts indeed terrell Even back to the BK wasn’t as bad as folks made him out to be thing. Maybe we’ll put up a shingle as fantasy league sports agents.

You know Josh is worth more than $12 in this auction league. If you guys can’t get a real value, we’ll take his game to Europe! Come on, if LeBron gets $50 here, my guy is worth a minimum of $25.

One of my gremlin absorbed posts from yesterday would have mentioned the new coach hirings.

Lister’s name is gone from the staff directory on the Hawks website, but I don’t have any current info on him.

Ty Hill could be a good prototype coach for the undersized big man. He scrapped and got his work done w/o having much bulk on him.

I hope the new coaches come with some innovative in game CRAP to take the pressure off Woody to come up with something during a time out.

By Melvin

July 17, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Nice Q & A article with Horford. He gave interesting response to the last two questions… Man, I’m, glad this kid is in a Hawks uni…. Sekou, I like how you throw us a bone with that article…

By Astro Joe

July 17, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

MannyT, but wouldn’t it be nice to have a big man coach who knew something about offense? First Lister and now Tyrone Hill. I guess if Hill doesn’t work out, Woody will hire Felton Spencer.

By RayZ

July 17, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Good lord I don’t know who’s is voting on that front page poll, but the Hawks need to RUN from Kwame Brown. Anyone who has has watched him play knows he’s got nothing for basketball IQ or skills. I don’t know much about Morris but anything is better than picking up that proven scrub. He’s that guy you run with at the gym that physically looks like he’s good and thinks he’s good, but is actually hurtin your chances of winning. The nickname “Hands of Stone” may be good for a boxer but not a NBA Center.

By Mike is back

July 17, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Guys, just chimed in to throw a shout outttt to the blog crew!!!!

I still read the blogs on the regular. Just would like to add on the JS RFA situation. Remember the Koby saga last season. JS situation haven’t even approached the level of discourse Koby and the Lakers went through. I know some astute blogger will point out that Koby wasn’t an RFA, and that’s cool. My point is when the dust settled Koby went on to have a very productive year. Smoove can do the same. Beside no other RFAs has been signed yet, so while JS relation with Woody is not great, it’s not unique.

Sund is basically cleaning up the mess of BASG, hence the reason they brought in an outsider with years of NBA experience to take over the decision making of the Hawks franchised. I think Sund got the lucky break he needed to at lease have a chance to add a Big to the team. Of course we still need a shooter to take the pressure off of JJ, but a healthy Bibby , and a healthy and confident ALaw can help in that area also.

Solomon is basically playing Russian Roulette passing up on summer league, but he is still probably snake bitten from his last performance. I like him a lot, but I agree with everyone that he’s making a very bad decision. Let’s hope for his sake that he has a plan.

Sekou, thanks for the update. Man if only we had a Sekou Smith covering the Falcons. Life would be greatttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By khao$

July 17, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

I.MUS.WRITE, quit playing games! lol! Rick Sund left where?

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

I hear you Astro Joe, but they rarely play the game that way anymore. Everyone wants to show their skills off the dribble. Not much real post up going on anymore.

Because our guys are a bit undersized, they don’t post much so we would be just as well of if Smith spent the summer with Toni Kukoc ;-)

HHoops I don’t know what Smith is willing to accept, but I’d almost have that opt out (ETO) as a starting point if I were his agent. You gotta pay me not to have an ETO if I believe the only reason I don’t get him a big check is the RFA status.

If you look at what happened in free agency this year with Davis, Brand & even Artest, that ETO is huge leverage.

Why Smith’s value has increased, but it doesn’t translate to cash…yet

Agents must hate RFA status, but it does make sense to hold that line. If I’m the Bulls, Ben Gordon only sees 5/50 mil in a time machine.

Some get better (Josh) and some get worse (Gordon). That’s agent PAIN.

By Volman

July 17, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Astro, do we know anything about these assistants that just got signed? Can you guys throw a couple links at me where I can read about them? (If this has already been done then my fault!)

You said that one of the coaches is a big man’s coach… Hopefully he can give SOLO some post moves!

By cp

July 17, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Great interview with Big Al. My problem with the B.A.S.G. is that they seem clueless. Im not a hockey guy but many Thrasher fans were saying how the B.A.S.G. did not build off of their playoff appearance. It seems like we are having the same issue. Making the playoffs were great but if we dont build on it people will soon forget and all the momentum that was built will go away. We need to add a big and a shooter to this team. If we keep waiting around we wont get anything.

SalimFan I know you’re a big fan of Shannon Brown but I will never forget what happened during a Cavs game last year. You know how they have the cameras show action from the bench during a free throw or whatever. Well it was this one play where they guy was trying to take a charge. Eric Snow was asking Shannon what he would have done in that situation, like what he should have done defensively. Well not only did Shannon ignore Eric Snow he even moved from the seat to joke around wit someone. The commentators were saying how that wasnt a good move by a young player who does not get pt anyway. You should always try to gain knowledge from a vet trying to show that you are serious about the game. Im not saying Brown is like that but not listening to a stand up guy like Snow who was only trying to help him did not look good on Brown’s part at all.

By Astro Joe

July 17, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Volman, Tyrone Hill is the former 76ers power forward from the team that went to the Finals a few years ago (remember the Ty Lue vs. AI series?). He was in the starting line-up with Iversen and Snow… the team that Larry Brown coached. (Hmmm, and who else is a Larry Brown protege?) He was a 6’8” hard-nosed defender, probably averaged around 12/9 in his best year (I’m guessing).

I have NO IDEA who that Jim Todd guy is, but I did read his profile on NBA.com. Here’s the link: http://www.nba.com/coachfile/jim_todd/index.html?nav=page

He may have been on the same Milwaukee coaching staff as Woody, back in the late 90s. That’s my best guess at a connection between those two.

Looks like Larry Drew gets the interim tag around the King Holiday next year.

By Sautee

July 17, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe

(although that Larry Drew comment sounded like Anakin)

If Sund waits that long into the season, will it be a lost one for the Hawks?

By Astro Joe

July 17, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Sautee, maybe. But since Sund’s bosses forced him to re-sign Woody, he has to give Woody enough games to have a reasonable sample to say to his bosses “I told you so”. And I can’t see him doing that after 15-20 games. Plus, these soft-hearted owners probably won’t terminate Woody a week before or after Christmas. My money is on the 2 weeks before King’s Holiday.

By Sautee

July 17, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

kirknga

So ASG, the organization, has been doing something contrary to the received wisdom. The panic instigated on the last several blogs was indeed called for as a very few of us stated.

Umm… kirk, knowing you, or at least knowing what you’ve said earlier, uh.. don’t you really mean was” uncalled for “????

And by the way buddy, while me and others have said “yes Kirk has some good ideas” I’ll also have to say that if your shoulder starts aching from all that patting yourself on the back, that doc can surely suggest an excercise protocol to help. ;-)

Also, regarding your question about “if Smith’s skill set is so unique, why doesn’t he have offers?” ….. I never said that his skill set was a reason to overpay for him. It’s obvious that the 2 teams most in a position to sign him went with experience. I think that both made the correct decision, given their team makeup. There were never more than a few teams that had enough cap room to make a big offer anyway, so I don’t think the lack of offers reflects as much on Smith as it does on the market. That said, if he were already the superstar some here think he is, he’d likely have gotten an offer instead of Brand or Camby. And maybe that was one point you were trying to make.

By Sautee

July 17, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

AJ

Yes, put that way, I see the reasoning behind your timetable.

So would you see that as a lost season?

By Sautee

July 17, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

AJ

Missed the maybe, sorry.

By Roger

July 17, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Sekou

Kelenna Azubuike just signd an offer sheet with the Clippers. Are the hawks going sign anybody. Im really concerned that much wont be available, I would like to see a Michael Finley or a Maurice Evans. Also is there a chance for a trade.

By Richie Rich

July 17, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Roger , the hawks don’t have no money to sign anybody…..I was told by somebody who works for them that they would match any offers for the joshes, but they wouldn’t have any money to sign anyone else, other moves would have to come via trades. If it were up to me , I would sign Smoove, if he wants to stay, and let Chills go and sign a couple of bigs(Kwame, Elson, or Morris) and Maurice Evans if possible.

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

I agree Mike. Wyche posts a new blog about every 3 or 4 months or so. lol!! No imformation what so ever. I know its the offseason, but in the NFL, there is no offseason.

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

Doc I’m Working on that thrown pizza link lol.

Manny Yeah I haven’t spent to much time plaing the Wii outside of stores. I gotta get on that. Everyone who has one loves it.

CP Yeah I was watching that game. It kind of rubbed me the wrong way too. Especially if you’re a very talented player and not getting any plyaing time There must be something you’re not doing right. I remeber when Larry Hughes went out with an injury at the start of the season a couple of years ago and Shannon started in his place. After that he couldn’t even sniff the court. He might have a bit of an ego problem.

By stevo

July 17, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

i just want to say that the people who keep bringing up the euro exchange as some important factor for playing in europe are missing two very, very important pieces of that puzzle. i know you are trying to sound smart by showing your international financial acumen, but, alas, as usually is the case when a person tries to reach beyond his innate boundaries, you are actually proving the opposite. i would give you the answers, but maybe giving it some thought will help you in your overall cognitive maturation.

cheers!

(ah, screw it, i don’t want to sit through any misguided attempts - taxes and cost of living. they may be able to exchange all that money at a high rate to dollars, but then what do they live on to spend in europe? oh, i know, they will get a cheap apartment and take the metro so they can save almost all of it and lock in that awesome exchange. oh, and give up all the glory of the nba. oh, and do you know how ridiculously expensive things are in europe? ever bought a cheeseburger in paris? me neither, but this is just what i hear.

and you can take at least half that exchange rate difference away as you pay taxes. lets just say i do have friends in europe who make fairly high to very high salaries, and most of them would jump at the chance to take less in america. remember, european, by and large, equals socialist/quasi communist when speaking of government.)

hope that helped!

By stevo

July 17, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

ok, even i am getting a little tired of me. new leaf: only attacking the argument, not the person! yes, only me and my mother will care (and she probably won’t either), but blogging on the ajc can lead to personal growth!

by the way, this is me. the other guy who attacked me with my name, was not. i don’t know how he had the same name (spaces or something?), but anyway, this self attack is real.

ah, i am continuing to confuse myself now. nevermind, i am going outside.

late!

By doc

July 17, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

stevo, you missed the main point, but thanks anyway. keep trying, we appreciate your input just the same.

if josh has the chance to make 5 to 7 mil in converted euros instead of the qualifying offer of 3.1 mil for playing fewer games and gains his freedom to be a free agent next year then i think he would go for it and bypass the glory for one year. seriously doubt the contract he signed would allow it but it is pause for thought and to possibly gain some leverage he doesnt have now.

catch the drift of our thinking? maybe a little out of the box for you.

and i havent bought a big mac in paris but they sure do serve up an excellent ham and cheese sandwich on some really good bread, throw in a little rose wine, quite a meal to wash it down. try it out some time. cheers!

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

So now highschoolers are going to start playing over seas for a couple of years,(WHILE GETTING PAID) instead of going to College fore a year, before entering the draft. Uh Oh, Stern. Your plan is backfiring. You deserve it. How can you take away a guys ability to make a living? That’s basically what your’re doing. If a guy can do the job, college educated or not, he should get the job. PLAIN AND SIMPLE! NBA is no different. Do soldiers have to go to military school, before they can join the army????

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

stevo I’ll take this one. Hopefully I can blog within my innate boundaries.

The Euro thing came up on this blog due to David Andersen playing in Europe. There was a post with an article that spoke about the salary situation.

While it is fair to say that YOU are not interested, It is relevant in these times. Just in case you missed it, a high school star is going over there instead of playing at Arizona for his one and done.

Brandon Jennings signs with Italian team

This will impact how other prep stars look at this option. It mattered when David Andersen stopped trying o work a deal with the Hawks and signed with FC Barcelona. It matters when Euro guys opt to come over here or stay there when they are drafted. It matters when NHL Euro players play there instead of here. It matters when you select players for your NBA team that might play there. In cash terms it matters that the last guy drafted from Kansas, Sasha Kaun, will probably be the highest paid, because he will play for CSKA instead of Oklahoma.

Kaun has enough talent to be a backup big in the league, but he just agreed to a big contract in Russia. I’m not sure he’ll ever be good enough to make more money in the NBA than he can in Russia. from Chad Ford’s 2008 Draft Board, Round 2 on ESPN

In the world where the money is a major deal to these players, many d-league level talents play in Europe for better money.

Earlier this week Dennis Scott was discussing playing in Europe on his radio show. I’m sure he and are are just reaching beyond what we know to impress someone we have not met.

It’s a business factor. If you cannot see beyond the borders of the USA that is fine. Just scroll on.

I’ll miss you trying to call me out on a blog about my opinion.

Cheers back at ya!

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Volman The link to the Hawks announcements with basic bios is in my 2:20 post.

Looks like Jim Todd had a 1/2 season as an interim head coach for the Clippers which was not the best time.

He is a hall of famer.

SalimFan I have played several sports games on the Wii. I wonder if I’d pass out from exhaustion if I did a first person shooter on the Wii. Maybe I’ll get one on the weekend, just to try it out.

Astro Joe if you were a spy, I could see an assignment file titled I have a dream on your desk. Key operative mykhalc working behind the scenes to aid matters from the west coast ;-)

Mission Impossible CRAP

By Sautee

July 17, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

stevo

“i know you are trying to sound smart by showing your international financial acumen, but, alas, as usually is the case when a person tries to reach beyond his innate boundaries, you are actually proving the opposite.”

This from a man who called Ray a jackass.

Can you not post without denigrating someone?

Hint: There’s no rule saying you have to be condescending here. Join us at the liar’s table. Put in your two cents worth, and enjoy yourself.

But you owe MannyT an apology.

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

“as usually is the case when a person tries to reach beyond his innate boundaries”

Stevo, that was actually funny. But next time let’s change his to their. Wouldn’t want to sound sexist by leaving the ladies out would we???? lol

Stevo,

1) They buy cheap apartments because it’s a forigen country and they are only there on business. Once the season is over they go back to their real country. They’re not even in the paricular country they play ball in half the time because just like in the NBA, they travel.

2) They are in the country as visitors unless they become a full fledged citizen. So buing a permanent residence probably isn’t even allowed.

3) Maybe they’re in the cheap apartment because of how expensive Europe is…….and the fact that they don’t plan on being there longer than they have to anyway. You know so the can spend all that money on ther real home and their family back in their own country.

………..Why do you have prenthesis around two big freakin’ pararaphs??? Arrrrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

Sautee I got this. If he had thought provoking words to stump someone, it would be different.

I’m not thinking this is Dr. Stevo Hawking.

Sticks and stone can break some bones. Words are the tools of the educated.

Might fear the word that comes from a nerd, but rarely words that smell like a turd.

He can have his 1st amendment right to speech. I just hope he invests in informative thought sharing. If the best you got is personal, I lose no sleep.

Feeble Arguments Intimidate Losers, yup FAIL!

By bigeasy830

July 17, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

If we can’t sign them both then sign Kwame. I agree with Sekou that a big man has to find a system that fits him. Kwame played with Agent Zero and Kobe, two guards that demand the ball and take many shots, plus his minutes has steadily declined since the 03 season which was his 3rd year in the league in which he averaged 10 and 8 in 30 minutes. Kwame is a big body that can give you toughness. We did not waste the 1st overall pick on him, so we should not worry about where he was drafted. He has signed two decent contracts in his career, we do not have to mortgage the farm to sign. him. He is better and tougher than Za Za, with Kwame as your starter at center you can move Al to the 4, J-Smoove if resigns to the 3, then have Marvin coming off the bench where I believe he will be more comfortable and his best fit in the league. Those players will be able to move to their natural positions. Kwame has more experience than Morris that is why I prefer Kwame. Plus, I believe that Coach Woodson’s system fits him perfectly. He will give the Hawks 10 and 8 next year as our starting center without us running any plays through him, plus much needed toughness on the defensive end.

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

Yeah Manny, we’re thinking alike again. B.Jennings is who I was taslking about. lol!

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

Yeah Manny, we’re thinking alike again. B.Jennings is who I was talking about. lol!

By Ray is Stevo

July 17, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

He’s bored, but doesn’t feel like posting as “Dark Kharma.” Therefore, Ray has created an invisible enemy…Stevo.

It’s kind of funny that Ray can argue with Kirk. Then create an anti-Ray persona, and Kirk befriends it. (LOL!) I can hear the court jester laughing from miles away.

Another day, nothing accomplished by ASG. How exciting?!

By Jimmy

July 17, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

I think David Stern is right on w/ his rule about not allowing kids to come straight out of high school into the NBA.

Think of DeAndre Jordan out of A&M, an early second round pick to the LA Clippers. This guy was in no way ready to play in the leauge RIGHT NOW. That’s what this is all about, these kids aren’t ready for the NBA today. The play on the court is suffering because of this. These kids are being drafted on potential and not results.

For those of you who say these kids are being denied a right to make a living are crazy. David Stern isn’t denying Brandon Jennings a right to make a living. He can go work at any McDonalds he wants, until he’s ready for the NBA. As the commish, David Stern and the team owners have every right to allow anybody they want into their league, or deny them, period.

By Jimmy

July 17, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

I think David Stern is right on w/ his rule about not allowing kids to come straight out of high school into the NBA.

Think of DeAndre Jordan out of A&M, an early second round pick to the LA Clippers. This guy was in no way ready to play in the leauge RIGHT NOW. That’s what this is all about, these kids aren’t ready for the NBA today. The play on the court is suffering because of this. These kids are being drafted on potential and not results.

For those of you who say these kids are being denied a right to make a living are crazy. David Stern isn’t denying Brandon Jennings a right to make a living. He can go work at any McDonalds he wants, until he’s ready for the NBA. As the commish, David Stern and the team owners have every right to allow anybody they want into their league, or deny them, period.

By stevo

July 17, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

ok , here is my first attempt at civility for civility’s sake. good luck to me!

if the argument is for a free agent such as josh smith, that is one thing. if it is for an 18 year old kid who does not want to go to college for a year (or can’t) or a fringe type nba player, that is another.

in the first case, you are talking about giving up all the fame and glory of the nba, seeing yourself on sportcenter every night, and everything you know and love about home, for a foreign culture, food, environment, language, and far less fame and glory. supposedly for more money because the euro can be exchanged for more dollars.

but i am saying, that once you take into account the fact that their expenses will be significantly higher (if you want to believe that they will live on the cheap for 8 months a year, you can, but i think they would actually live more expensively to insulate themselves) and their taxes will be ridiculously higher (taxes are not based on permanent residence - they are based on where your income is earned; some will be offset by taxes still owed here, but bottom line is they will pay much, much, much more in taxes). and then with whatever is left they can exchange those euros to dollars.

my argument is that this will be so little a difference as to in no way shape or form alter the real options for significant free agents.

again, for the high schoolers or fringe types, i offer no argument.

i have to go now, but check back later (i know you are holding your breath already) for my next attempt at calm argument when i try to explain how negotiating works to all of you who are in such a constant state of panic and excitement because the negotiations with josh and josh are taking as long as they are.

cheers!

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

LIES!!!!!! You spelled Karma wrong….

Ray doesn’t misspell often.

By bigeasy830

July 17, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Manny T. I like your post. But, in my opinion, Brandon Jennings will have to spend more than a year in the Euro league to be ready for the NBA. It will take a player the caliber of Lebron, D. Howard, or G. Oden to change the NBAs rule on high school players. Those guys had the bodies of grown men while they were in high school the were no brainer impact players their first year. B. Jennings is a 6ft,170lbs point guard with a lot of and 1 in his game, remember all the hype about S. Telfair. This kid will be crushed by those Euro league players next year. Those are grown men playing over there just ask our last 2 or 3 Dream Teams. David Stern and the NCAA will have the last laugh in this saga. You can’t fight city hall, just ask Maurice Clarett and Mike Williams.

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Stevo’s grammer would make an English Professor vomit…..not ray’s style CASEY!!!!

By doc

July 17, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

stevo if it is a win win situation for josh then he goes and there will be a time where young stars will go if not given what they feel they deserve and josh deserves more than the qualifying offer. i also understand because he deserves it doesnt mean he can get it according to his contract.

agents will want to get any leverage they can find even if it means leaking stories that josh doesnt want to play for woody so they can find out if a team wants to make it work where josh and his agent gets their money. it is all speculation and i freely admit it and i assure you i wont bet on it.

as far as agents go brand’s pulled a fast one on everyone to become a playa again as he used to be the equivalent of scott boros or woods agent group since he was MJ’s agent back in his day, folks had forgotten about him and they wont anymore. dont put it past them to try anything to make them and their client more money.

i assure you, you might have a lot of facts from one or two persons but there are many americans living well and enjoying their time slumming in europe. not all americans are considered ugly nor unable to see other manners of quality in life.

By ray

July 17, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

No, I am NOT Stevo.

Stevo, you’re not the first to get spoofed. Happens to all of us. But you probably sent some mixed signals in your 7:51 post wherein you say that one self attack was not you attacking yourself, but the latest self attack was you attacking yourself. Uh…take your word for it, I suppose.

SalimFan, you have just earned your way into a higher rank in the Blog Crimes Unit. I believe you have correctly named the perpetrator of “Ray is Stevo” as none other than the infamous Casey. Good work, trooper!

Casey, where have you been? Posting as someone else? We’ve missed your sermons…

MannyT, think you could calculate the Euro return on Stevo’s two cents worth?

By Sautee

July 17, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

MannyT

Most excellent reply. I laughed so hard I had to read it aloud to my wife!

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

**Jimmy**, I agree. One and done does tend to weed out the garbage pretty well. BUT College offenses' are so restricting at times that it can be difficult to gauge a players true potential.

For example the system O.J Mayo played in at USC cost him that number 1 draft spot. After summer league, it’s fairly obvious to see that Mayo and Chalmers are clearly the 2 best guards from that draft class (if you go by their current summer league production……….Eric Gordon gets a pass)

Even still those players still excelled even in those systems so I’d say Stern had the right Idea.

Ray, All in a day’s work for your neighborhood superhero. Unfortunately I for got to write an acceptance speech.

By SalimFan

July 17, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, I agree. One and done does tend to weed out the garbage pretty well. BUT College offenses’ are so restricting at times that it can be difficult to gauge a players true potential.

For example the system O.J Mayo played in at USC cost him that number 1 draft spot. After summer league, it’s fairly obvious to see that Mayo and Chalmers are clearly the 2 best guards from that draft class (if you go by their current summer league production……….Eric Gordon gets a pass)

Even still those players still excelled even in those systems so I’d say Stern had the right Idea.

Ray, All in a day’s work for your neighborhood superhero. Unfortunately I for got to write an acceptance speech.

By Melvin

July 17, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

For those who question Sekou reporting. Lets look at the a current quote from Marc Stein at ESPN:

Plugged-in sources say Smith thought he was on the verge of getting an offer sheet from the Clippers before the Camby deal moved along so quickly. Rumblings persist that Smith would prefer to relocate in spite of his Georgia roots.

Who the heck is Plugged-in or Rumblings? I’m sure they are credible sources. Also, did anyone else notice when they played that segment about Josh Smith on sportcenter last nite they reference CNNSI had made that report. It’s all pure bogus and they can’t prove any of it..

Thankfully we have Sekou to report the facts. Keep up the good work Sekou.

By Scott

July 17, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Thanks for all of the hard work. I was wondering if there was any word on David Anderson or Cenk Akoyl, two draft picks that have been overseas. Thanks in advance

By ray

July 17, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

Melvin, “plugged-in” and “rumblings” are buzz words. And remember that Marc Stein was the genius who told us that San Antonio’s assistant GM Dennis Lindsey was a front runner for the Hawks GM job. Guess what? Lindsey never was even offered the job….And somehow Stein missed Chris Grant, who was offered the job (as reported by….surprise…Sekou), until the two sides couldn’t agree on whatever details. My guess? Grant wanted more money and his own coach. Gearon probably said no to both stipulations.

SalimFan, no acceptance speech necessary, but the Chief says that you’ve gone from sergeant to lieutenant as of Monday. Heyyyyyy…that means you outrank me. I gotta work on more cases…

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

So much to say, so little time. Good to see all the regulars both had something to say, but also moved this to a constructive sharing of ideas. I think that’s one of the main reasons we hang here.

I’m tossing this to kirknga so he can look at the evening’s activities starting at 7:39PM on July 17th and assess things. Recall some of your statements as you became more visible. Think about where you would fall blogwise this evening. Just some food for mental thought. I am not asking you to pick a side, but to consider the reactions about the post and what followed. How folks react defines a community for good or bad. In many ways, these blogs are online communities.

People trying to pretend to be other people in a forum where we don’t normally see each other, but we do get used to hanging out in an electronic way.

Enough of this. On to hoops stuff…

By ray

July 17, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

Nice Q&A with Al Horford. What a hard worker and consummate teammate. Notice how he talks of Josh Smith and how his presence is “crucial.” He talks of Smith “having his back” out there and even includes some other things we talked about on this blog for some time.

Such as Zaza coming in and Horford and Josh sliding to the 4 and 3, respectively. This kid definitely has some ideas on how the game is to be played and how to take advantage of mismatches. I wonder if his coach thinks thusly?

I think one big key is getting good alternatives to Zaza. If and when he can’t do whatever job it is you want done, you can’t be turning only to Solomon. When you need a better defender, that’s just what you need. When you need a different taste or twist to offense, then that’s what you need. Another big key is reintegrating Zaza into the game. Quit making him feel like an outcast. Playing alongside Horford and Smith just about has to make him more comfortable and play better. It just about has to.

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

ray his 2 cents can’t get him enough gasoline over there to catch fire, unless he’s in one of the oil countries that almost give it away…and they are technically not in Europe even though there are Americans playing pro hoops in the mid East countries.

Just make sure Mrs. Sautee knows that I am blog funny, but no stand up comic. In real life I’m a geek.

SalimFan I think I figured out what to name the character that I blow up in whatever Wii game I pick up this weekend.

Now back to the one and done guys going Euro.

Bigeasy830 It is a money grab for Jennings while he is waiting out his year. He may sign a multi year deal, but it will have an out after the first year unless he uses a family friend instead of a pro as his agent.

The new market for the prep star is the opportunity to have another option because they cannot go from high school to the NBA. While the D-league is an option for the high schooler, the pay is not very good. A peek at draftexpress and insdiehoops websites implies the top salaries for D-League players that are not on assignment from the NBA are in the mid-upper 20 THOUSANDS. Minimums are 12k for about 2/3 of the players. I don’t know what he’s getting paid in Europe, but there is a hint in the women’s game. Compensation for WNBA players is better in Europe than the US. WNBA min salary is 34.5K and max about 100k On the high end in Russia, the top women are making much more there than here.

All this to say, I expect the Brandon Jennings of the world to make MUCH more in Europe than the D-League for a year. Then they are eligible for the NBA draft with cash in hand. The NBA does not lose much (recognition of player had he been in college.) The Euroleague wins with a better player and more fiscal hostages to extract cash from the NBA. I don’t know a lot about this, but I have done some reading tonight and previously. Not claiming to be an expert, but I know that some Euro teams make more from NBA to give up a player than the player was paid.

NCAA loses notable prep player, but wins with fewer one and done players if this becomes a trend.

Note that none of this has to do with exchange rates. When they are favorable to being there, it makes it easier for the Euros to offer more cash to Americans w/o it costing them anything.

Good Euro CRAP is about income maximization. The cultural benefits are there, but that’s a bonus.

By travis

July 17, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

the hawks inactivity got me thinking

thesis waiting so long to sign free agents will cost us this season.

proof 82 games sched. 30games are against western teams. the past season HAWKS were 14-17 against the west, several of the western teams they beat last year have improved, like clippers and lakers. (i don’t see the hawks beating them this season) so possibly 10-20 against West this season, WITH NO FREE AGENT SIGNINGS!!

In the division, we play each team 4 times, Washington, Miami, Orlando, Charlotte. We went 9-7 in our division, with Agent 0 absent for 2 of those games, plus a weak Miami and Charlotte team, all of the teams in our division are stronger so you figure we go 8-8 in the division with NO FREE AGENT SIGNINGS!!

so that leaves 36 games against the rest of the east, Boston, Detroit, Clev, NJ, New York, Milwaukee, Chicago, Philly, Toronto, Indy. HAWKS were 14-22 against the rest of the east, not in the division. this may remain constant 14-22 with NO FREE AGENT SIGNINGS.

This puts us right at 36wins, again!! Assuming we sign the Joshes and in the absence of NO FREE AGENTS SIGNING, i don’t see how we get more than 36 wins!!!

By MannyT

July 17, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

For the player that has low to non NBA skills…aka the fringe types

For the top D-league players they stay in the US for the call up and a shot at the NBA. That call up is probably worth it if you get it (Jeremy Richardson). If you don’t (Rod Benson) you seriously consider making a move to Europe for a season or two to get paid. Benson mentioned this on his blog awhile back.

For the real NBA level players, this is a trickier question. For those that did not grow up here, they can play less games against easier competition and get paid something. Memphis just lost Juan Carlos Navarro who signed a 5 yr deal to play for FC Barcelona with…David Andersen.

Guys at the end of their NBA careers can get several more years of play in Europe. Good money compared to the NBA minimum with fewer games. Less wear and tear on the body for big men with that trapezoidal lane. Maybe your career lasts longer.

If I’m not mistaken Kobe Bryant spent his youth abroad while his dad was playing basketball. Thus it is not a new idea.

I would suspect you can get decent advice about the cost of living if you have a real agent. Example from the OJ Mayo fallout—remember BDA International!

Career enhancement cash in CRAP. Once again the exchange rate, just makes it a better fiscal situation when the dollar is weaker than the Euro. Earn it there, spend it here.

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Check out MarvinNBA TVbroadband Hawks 99, Sonics 90 (F)

By terrell barron

July 17, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

Check out Marvin: NBATV broadbandHawks 99, Sonics 90 (F)

By doc

July 18, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

travis, funny i have a gut feeling even with the signings to keep together the core 8 we go to 35 wins next year unless there are two additional players that woody trusts in a big and a shooter that come on board. the best we could expect is a season at 42 wins. injuries could easily take it lower than 35.

if josh is not signed and then not replaced with a deng or say an okafor type of player then we sink towards the bottom of the pile and head to lottery land with better odds than the bulls had. owners by their sloth like manner at the negotiating table or with pulling in ufa’s has to suggest they are not ready for prime time unless something big is being worked on.

By MannyT

July 18, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Yes this is the last part of my 3 tiered Euro response.

for the civil stevo—let’s look at good NBA players

If Josh were truly a max player like LeBron, Chris Paul et al that got their extensions at the max, we would not have this conversation. Those guys play here and stay here at the top dollar plus significant endorsement opportunities.

Bringing it home to guys like Josh Smith who are good, but not great…if you cannot get paid here becasue of RFA rules, you should look at your options. Looking at the title of this blog—he’s about out of NBA options to leverage. Unlike Chills whose tender number is less than 1 million below the mid level exception which is probably not that far from his actual value, Smith turned down a deal that would (on average) pay him about 4 times what he made last season. If you can get close to 10 million there for a year or two, it is worth considering. Recall when Steve Young signed a USFL contract that was way over what anyone was getting in the NFL. Cash in when you can if you career may last only 10-15 years. Without the exchange rate difference, the Euro option is less likely because they would have to pay much more in their local cash to get you.

I would also expect a top sports agency to have some advice on key issues around international contracts. If they have top female basketballers, the advice should be on retainer if not on staff.

I am not suggesting that Smith go Clark Howard and drive a fortwo. In fact, if JR Holden gets a Mercedes and a free apartment, I think they would take care of Josh.

Could Andrew Bogut’s recent deal reflect that the real competition for him was outside of the country? Following the money sometimes takes us beyond the US.

There’s my weak argument that I’ll call world view CRAP.

What you got?

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

I give up. lol! I’ll leave that s** to Salimfan.

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

The lottery? Damn Doc, we should be better than that. At least

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

The lottery? Damn Doc, we should be better than that. At least I hope so.

By Josh Smith

July 18, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

I swear that I am thinking about getting an insurance policy and just playing this year out!!

I want the organization to feel what I am feeling now!!

This same time next year, the organization will feel my current pain!!

I just walk for free!! Then they will be wishing that they had signed me.

By doc

July 18, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

terrell, if there is a significant injury say to bibby, jj or josh smith or even horford without significant additions we head back to the lottery, no? i cant se it any other way, look only to chicago to see how quick the mighty and young can fall.

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this

LOL @ TB!!! Hhahaha you’ll get the hand of it. The AJC can be tricky sometimes lol.

Manny, You named him WAFFLE didn’t you? Don’t lie lol. It’s ok sometimes you just feel llike sniping the whole frekin’ front office……beleive me I understand (Evil Laugh).

Looka at all the homegrown former College studs overseas nowadays.

Daniel Ewing(Duke)

Allan Ray(Villanova)

B.J Elder(GT)

Gerry McNmera(Syracuse)

Jason Conley(Mizzou)

Gillermo Diaz(Miami)

Will Bynum(GT) Currntly in Summer leauge

John LucasIII (U of Oaklahoma)Summer leauge currently

Hassan Adams(Arizona)Summer leauge

Todd Okeson(Nevada)

Jamel Thomas(Providince) Sebatian Telfairs older brother

Donnie MgGrath(Providince) If we could get this guy state-side we should. Exellent shooter.

Luke Schencher(GT)

Ishmail Mahammed(GT)

Patrick Sparks(Kentucky)

Marcus Fizer …..And the list goes on forever

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

Alost Forgot

Justin Gray(Wake Forest)

Taylor Coppenrath(Vermont)

By MannyT

July 18, 2008 2:31 AM | Link to this

I can’t dispute the concerns about the need to sign someone. Don’t you think we get at least Randolph Morris? He should be in our price range. (We can offer free room and board at his childhood home;-) Not that I think he is a difference maker right now, but he is an upgrade over Solomon.

If we get another shooter out of the summer league that gives us a chance to have some flexibility.

Cleveland & Washington have not done much to get better. Indy & NJ are very different, but that doesn’t mean better…time will tell.

I think we are still in the scrap for a playoff spot if the young guys continue to improve. I expect Woody to get more from Al & Zaza (contract year.) Bibby should be healthier.

Gotta have hope. Even Speedy is playing right now.

WAF

By MannyT

July 18, 2008 2:40 AM | Link to this

Yes SalimFan WAFFLE is Woody’s Arms Folded - Feeding Lower Expectations.

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 2:41 AM | Link to this

Donte Green 40 pts in Summer Leauge action

Darrell Arthur 23 points Summer Leauge

If I was the GM. As long as I stay under the Luxury tax threshold then nothing off limits.

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 2:54 AM | Link to this

Look, if someone offers Smith a contract. He doesn’t HAVE to sign it until the situation is favorable to the hawks.

After Summer League, Training Camp……after the Hawks have gotten a chance to further evaluate the Free Agent talent.

Then Smith/Childress accept the offers from other teams. The Hawks sign the Free Agents and then match for the Joshes’.

Think about it. If the Joshes’ really want to be apart of a successful organization I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of them doing something like this.

Let’s face it Morris and Brown are not even going to command Jarvis Hayes type cash, so we might be able to add three free agents to last season’s roster. Minus Salim of course.

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 2:59 AM | Link to this

Manny, I was reffering to this comment below lol:

“I think I figured out what to name the character that I blow up in whatever Wii game I pick up this weekend.”

By ray

July 18, 2008 5:46 AM | Link to this

Hmmmph.

By MannyT

July 18, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

tb you picked a tricky one to link. Here’s your Marvin video from the Seattle game.

AJ looks like the king of the alley oop in those highlights.

SalimFan I whiffed on that one. I was overblogged for the night.

Hmmmph?

ray I do like what you (& Horford) are saying about getting more out of Zaza. Also bringing in alternatives that make it easier to create match up problems.

Good strategy. Now if Sund can pull it off and Woody will play the right combinations, we could make some noise.

That’s insightful CRAP!

By stevo

July 18, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

i am too lazy right now to respond to the whole euro thing. so i guess i will concede the point for expedience’s sake.

all i will say in my defense (on one point or another, i forget which) is that i currently live in beijing and i have spent significant time living in Singapore and Florence, so my worldview is not entirely sheltered and/or limited. and i certainly recognize that many people would prefer to live in europe to america both short and long term. i do not, however, think that any of them would be people who would otherwise have the opportunity to play in the nba. that is just my opinion, no matter how sheltered or feeble it may be.

yes, i confused myself too with the not me/yes me thing, but the only two that were not me were something to do with being drunk and a dodo bird. for the record (of which i am sure someone is keeping copious and diligent track of. or something like that).

why you got to attack my grammar? all grammar is is generally agreed upon principles for communicting anyway, right? if i be understood, whichever way that be so, then that be good enough for me. see?

ok, maybe i am drunk now. i gots to go.

off to argue with some chinese about mao!

cheers!

By MannyT

July 18, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

SalimFan Check out this link for Americans playing (or that used to play) outside the US.

USBasket

There’s lots of other info as well, but the international piece was the unique extra on the site.

Gotta go make some good CRAP happen. Catch y’all later.

By STRETCH

July 18, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

Once again the front office is doing nothing! Thought i was going to wake up and here something good…but nope!

Someone said on here earlier that the Hawks are broke and cant sign Free agents and that they should let one of the Joshes go or trade. And that is so true, Atlanta can not sit and expect to be back in the playoffs with the same lineup as last year.

Bottom line is the East has gotten better and the Hawks, just like the Braves will be going into yet another mediocre season because they are cheap.

By doc

July 18, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

stevo, has a clint eastwood problem as he goes through his day reiterating the comment “go ahead and make my day”, just give me a reason to argue with you so i dont have to argue with myself on just who i am.

glad to hear you made it through the day or night whichever it is over there.

By I.MUS WRITE

July 18, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

KHAO$- I was being straight up dude. I was looking directly at the man when he said that. Im not going to tell the world exactly where I work but Its near Phillips arena and I have alot of contact with NBA players as well as front office people…. so its really nothing to see Mr sund -Woody BK etc…

I really think he was genuine about the joshes but if not time will tell.

By I.MUS WRITE

July 18, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Stevo-How long did you live in Singapore? I was there for 4 months -U gotta luv the place ….tiny but full of excitement….

Good memories of Clarkee and Bokee party districs…… Techno,Asian Gurls,Cuisine, Endless supply of tequila- Those were the dayz.

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Manny Thanks for the Link. I was just thinking of the more well known collegiate players over there but DAMN that’s a lot. Who was it that said they don’t like American players over there?

I.Mus- Hopefully he’s telling the truth. Did he actually mention Salim? Also you must travel often because I remeber a while back you were not in America when you posted………..that’s what you said. Must be fun or is it mostly business??

By femhawkfan

July 18, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

I.MUS I can’t find your post that seems to have a couple of people excited about a recent conversation you had with Sund. What did you guys discuss?

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Femhawkfan, yeah the post was hiding from me too lol.

It’s located at July 17, 2008 2:19 PM

By TheHawksFan

July 18, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

I hope coverage for todays game is on KFAN 1320 on the net. The Jazz play after us so hopefully they will stream the Hawks game too. Dallas tv KTXA-21 will carry the game live. There are a ton of radio staions that carry Mavs game. Maybe one of them will stream the game Live.

By O'brien

July 18, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if anyone posted this earlier, but it’s being reported that TLue will sign a 1 year deal with the Bucks.

Since Scott Skiles is the new Bucks coach, maybe Lue can play a scoring role similar to Ben Gordon off the bench (even if the results are not the same). The closer for 3…

By O'brien

July 18, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Sekou, What’s your opinion of Woody’s 2 new assistants (although you might be limited to what you can and cannot say), and do you know if his staff is now complete?

By I.MUS WRITE

July 18, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

FEMHAWKFAN…… I didnt have a conversation with R.Sund,but I was sitting about 4 feet away as he spoke to my boss. The GM for my favorite team was talking so of course im listening.

I heard the guy say out of his own mouth that the Hawks will retain both guys (josh and josh), like I said these are only words, but who better to hear it from than the GM- only time will tell.

I dont think Mr sund had a reason to say that if it was’nt going to happen.

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Thanks Manny. If we can get something even close to 33 and 7 out of Marvin this year, WATCH OUT! I can see ‘OL Marv putting up 20 and 7 for us this year. If he works on his conditioning and his range over the summer, he might just suprise us all. Thoughts? We know what we’re going to get from JJ. We also know what we’re going to get from Smoove, Chills, and Horford. Marvin holds the key to our success. And Bibby, of course.

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Damn, Carlos Delfino is leaving the NBA to sign with Khimki Moscow. WOW!

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Damn, Carlos Delfino is leaving the NBA to sign with Khimki Moscow. WOW! 3YRS 30 MILLION

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Delfino said he only received two firm offers. Detroit and Moscow. And on another note, it looks like the Nuggets are already trying to replace Camby. Their after Francisco Elson.

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Delfino said he only received two firm offers. Detroit and Moscow. And on another note, it looks like the Nuggets are already trying to replace Camby. They’re after Francisco Elson.

By khao$

July 18, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

I.MUS. I take your word for it. Any positive news on that front is greatly appreciated. I just hope it happens soon.

By I.MUS WRITE

July 18, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Salim fan - I didnt hear anything about Salim -I was just saying that he might be gone by the looks of things.

I think Gardner may take his spot. A 6’5 guy with more athleticism and the same kind of range -Salim may as well leave because his talents are being wasted under Woodson IMO……..

I only heard the part about the Joshes. After he was gone my boss said that they were going to add depth to our Backcourt……. I didnt talk to the guy though-I guess millions recognize millions or sumthing

Im a thousandaire maybe so i dont think he would have been at my desk telling me the future of the team -helps to have people in high places ….. either way it was good to hear that Sund and the ASG are actually intrested in improving out team…………..

By femhawkfan

July 18, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Salimfan, thanks for telling me where the post was located, lol! And I.MUS thanks for posting the info again.

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

I.Mus Yeah, I’ve been saying salim wouldn’t come back ever since Woodson’s contract was extended. I’ve also got wind of salim’s agent talking to other team about their interest in his services.

We’ve also been saying that Sailm was probably one of the two Hawk players who gave a negative assessment of Woodson’s Tenure with the Hawks when asked about him by Rick Sund.

I personally don’t have a problem with that. There’s no reason a player of his talent should be wasting away on the bench like that. If we had gotten a new Head coach, I have no doubt Salim probably would have wanted to consider coming back to play for the Hawks.

By doc

July 18, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

after our little chat with stevo telling us all we dont know anything about real life econmics outside of our own borders we see a legit talent leaves for a better offer in russia. did i hear somene say; “well dumb me down one more time batman”?

By I.MUS WRITE

July 18, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Salim Fan - I do enjoy traveling -I’ve been to over 30 different countries ….most of these visits came while i was serving my country.

I dont travel as much as i used to, but I do my thing 2 or 3 times a year.The last place that i went was the Dominican Republic.

Its hard to get away these days though….seems like my keyboard and pc are permanently attached to me.

By MannyT

July 18, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Looks like a little love for the Hawks in the preview of the Rocky Mountain Revue

tb A link for your Carlos Delfino news.

He should be the man in that division.

I.MUS We’re going to have to get you some Mission Impossible gear so you can capture all this intel ;-)

We like the inside scoop CRAP!

By MannyT

July 18, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Hey doc I refuse to wear that Robin outfit…but…

Holy supply and demand, Batman!

That Stern guy must be crazy too.

LOL

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Everyone is saying the East has gotten better, which may be true, but just because a team adds new players, does’nt automatically make them better. Just ask Denver(AI), Cleveland(Ben Wallace, Szczerbiak, Delonte) or Phoenix(Shaq, Grant Hill). Teams have to gel people! For example, look at Detroit. That did’nt add but maybe 1 or 2 players in their 6 or 7 year run, and they got better and better. And I think everyone is forgetting a few things. Bibby was UNHEALTHY, Horford was a ROOKIE, Acie was UNHEALTHY, Josh Smith should be BETTER, Marvin Williams should be BETTER, and most importantly, Woody said that he’ll USE HIS BENCH a lot more this year. He really did’nt have a choice last year, because he HAD TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. So, of course he was going to PLAY HIS BEST PLAYERS. So all in all, we shall also be BETTER. All Sund has to do is add a couple of bigs(Kwame, Randolph), and a 3 pt threat, and we’re good to go. Yall need to stop with all that “The East has gotten better” crap. Says who? The only team who made significant improvent was Philly. And how do we know that Brand will fit right in? We dont. Do we?

By POTIH

July 18, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

SMITH IS A WHINNER, THAT IS WHY THE EDITORS CAN’T FIND A BETTER PICTURE OF HIM.

By ray

July 18, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

I.Mus is part of the Intel division of the Blog Crimes Unit. Good reporting sir.

Unfortunately, that comes with a caveat that isn’t aimed at you. I’m glad that Sund and crew are “interested” in improving. But there’s a difference between “interested” and “active.” And I’m wondering why there’s apparently still a gap between the two, as far as Hawks ownership/management is involved. C’mon guys…get it DONE. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a step, and all that rot….

Stevo, wish I could travel like you and I.Mus. I’d love to see Beijing. I continue to serve my country (and my state) by mandate of Homeland Security, so instead of going and enjoying other cultures, they often come to me. It ain’t the same. Sometimes I wish I was in the military…just to travel. Oh well, I’ve got vacation time. And my wife loves to travel. We’ll see what happens (but NOT during the NBA season!)

Nice link, Manny. Between you and SalimFan, my link addiction stays filled.

terrell, It’s actually better to assume that your competition has improved. If you don’t, you’re willing to stand pat and it’s harder to become motivated to improve upon yourself. Imagine if somebody in management takes that stance. All of the sudden, we don’t need to spend the money on another pg, shooter, a couple of halfway-decent bigs. No, it is always better to assume that the competition is keeping up and getting better. It’s true that we don’t know how well other teams will do, or how much they may have or may not have improved. But I would much rather the team and the entire organization take the stance of “We must be better than the competition. We can’t just keep up, we need to try and get ahead.” The higher the goal you set, the better. Shoot for a “C” and you either hit it or you hit lower (like a “D+”). Shoot for an “A” and you may end up with a “B”, “B+”, etc. Beats the hell out of a “D+”, doesn’t it?

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

But Ray, we’re talking about the BASG here. An A or B is basically out of the question. I’m not saying it’s not good to assume that your compwetition has gotten better. All I’m saying is WE SHOULD ALSO BE alot BETTER, especially if those 3 signings that I mentioned happen.

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

But Ray, we’re talking about the BASG here. An A or B is basically out of the question. I’m not saying it’s not good to assume that your competition has gotten better, all I’m saying is WE SHOULD ALSO BE alot BETTER, especially if those 3 signings that I mentioned happen. A couple of bigs and a 3 pt threat.

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

And Ray, I’m just tired of people saying the East is so much BETTER, and we’ve done nothing. Outside of Boston, no other teams scare me. We can compete with all of em. I just dont see another KG, Ray, and Pierce trio anywhere, but in Boston. And btw, we played them pretty damn tough.

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

What up guys? Have yall seen the Brady Quinn photos on the 2 live Stews site. wtf!!!! If you have’nt, check em out. And Salimfan, hook em up with the site. I’m sure you saw it. lol!!

By HB Ando

July 18, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

I haven’t read through all 300 posts here, so if this post mirrors some one else’s, sue me.

Seems like folks continue to ignore the basic math of the Hawks likely roster budget, when discussing who they expect to play here this season, and, thus how they expect the team to perform.

According to HoopsHype, last years’ team had a payroll of $54.5 million. As of right now, our payroll stands at $51.8 million, with a salary number of $3.16 million for Smith, and $4.84 for Childress. It also has no salary accounted for on Richardson, Salim and Mario (do any of those have signed contracts right now?).

If Smith signs for something like 5/$55 million, then he’s looking at an $8 million raise. If Josh signs for $6 million, he’s up $1.2 million. That $9.2 would place the roster number at $61 million, WITHOUT salaries for Salim, Richardson or West. Let’s say we sign them for a collective $2.5 million.

Now, we’re at $63.5 million.

OK, now that’s 13 players, but any of the last 3 could get cut, in exchange for 2 or 3 of the following: Kwame, Morris, Simeon, Luke Jackson, or another, less-known name.

Kwame would likely command somewhere between $3 and $5 million. The rest of them would be at the veteran’s minimum.

So, a 15-man roster, with the core intact, and the addition of Kwame, would take the team salary toward the ballpark of $67 million.

I’ll now ask, for the 67 millionth time, is there ANYBODY here, who has ANY solid reason, who believes the ASG WILL, much less CAN afford to, up their payroll from $54 million, to $67 million, for what projects to be, at best, a roughly .500 team, with maybe a 50-50 shot at making the playoffs??

Not gonna happen. Not now. Not with this ownership group.

So all this energy, spent contemplating how the Hawks will be, competitively, with the core roster maintained, and the addition of a Kwame Brown, or any of the other cast of current characters, is simply a waste.

‘Cause it’s not gonna happen.

The most obvious way to keep the majority of this team intact, and add a guy like Kwame, is to subtract the salary of Mike Bibby ($14.5 million). But you’ve got to take something back unless he’s going to a team with cap space (Joe or Manny, or somebody else, can maybe illuminate me on the actual requirements of cap implications; I know that the match is supposed to be within 25%, but I don’t know how teams willing to take on luxury tax, or who are under the cap, could work such a deal-could we take a trade exception and a draft pick for Bibby?).

Move Bibby, without taking on any extra salary. Sign Kwame, and/or Jackson and Simeon, and hand the PG job to Law.

It’s simply implausible to me that the ASG will spring for a $67 million payroll.

And if it’s implausible to anyone else, then that reality has to be considered in any discussion on who will play here next year, and what we can expect, performance-wise, from the Hawks.

But months upon months of discussions about how the Hawks will fair in the East, with everyone returning, Smith and Chilress re-signed, and the addition of a couple of key role players, continues to ignore a painfully obvious fact that theres’ simply no evidence that the ASG will fund $67 million, after never funding more than $55 since they’ve been in charge (and don’t forget the 27% stake they have to buy out from Belkin to resolve their divorce).

Will ANYONE address this line of reasoning, with either support for this summary, or a logical counter argument?

I’m not looking for a fight. I’m just trying to determine if I’m missing something from my line of thought.

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

You can take away Salim’s, Solo’s, Marios and maybe Childress’ salary(sign and trade). There’s a way to get it done. And since when has the Hawks had a 15 MAN ROSTER?

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

You can take away Salim’s, Solo’s, Marios and maybe Childress’ salary(sign and trade). There’s a way to get it done. And since when has the Hawks had a 15 MAN ROSTER? Thats about 9 mill right there.

By travis

July 18, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

HB ando you be comin’ wit’ it bruh!! thanks for the numbers. based on what you are sayin’ and how there is no activity goin’ on in hawksville and all of the improvements in the EAST, we are done for the 08 season.

Ando, what about if the hawks sign one or both of the joshes to a 1yr contract, since no agreement can be reached. Wouldn’t this provide some relief to sign a Kwame Brown or a shooter?

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

And Ando, I dont see why they cant spend a little extra this year, when Bibby, Marvin, and Zaza’s contract ends after this year. What’s that about 25 mill?

By I.MUS WRITE

July 18, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Dam It ………..Ando u sure know how to rain on our parade LOL.

You must be an accountant. I see what u are say’n as far as the muney,but it’s july we dont have anything else to do but hope /wish

13 mili is a huge jump in payroll but I feel like they will make the sacrifice.

Ray- When u and the wifey get a chance to travel do it-the years i spent out of the country were the best of my life.

We need u here though bro. Protect and Serve thats the motto right? Can you do anything about this stalker I have HELP!!!!

By newkid

July 18, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Ando, for the most part I think you’re on point regarding the Spirit’s unwillingness and inability to go much north of $60M in salary. There may however be a few items in need of consideration prior to concluding that the real expense of the kind of 15-player $67 M scenario you described; MAYBE.

First, you’ll recall that JJ had a front-end loaded contract (~$20M in year 1), which means his 08/09 real compensation is likely several million less than the $14M+ shown on HoopsHype’s table. Let’s say the table is $2M north of the actual - rather than ‘cap’ - figure.

Also, if we assume (this might not be plausible if he successfully completes RMR) that Speedy continues to be injured into - and through - the upcoming season. The Spirit will then be required to pay - I think - only 20% of his $5.7M salary; the remainder is paid by the insurer. Another $4.6M in savings.

So perhaps - just PERHAPS - the Spirit will actually be some $6.6M in real money below the $67M figure in your scenario. If this ballpark is fairly close, does it change at all your view of the Spirit’s willingness to marginally exceed the ‘soft cap’?

By MannyT

July 18, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Ando My detailed post just got sucked into the vortex (my fault), but here’s a retry.

You are generally right, but 1-We don’t know their REAL budget for the upcoming season and 2-they are shaving small operational amounts every chance they get. It should not have been a surprise that they needed to pay the RFAs this season—even w/o a CFO.

They easy savings. If Josh gets 5yr/55 mil deal, it starts about 6 mil above his cap hold with about 950k in annual raises. That saves 2 mil.

This year the president, CFO, & CMO left without backfills. They saved hockey coach salary for almost all of prior season.

Like the grocery stores, smaller containers with higher prices for food. Check the ice cream and potato chip containers at your home—shrinkage!

The Hawks season ticket prices have been below average. The cheapest seats have doubled in price. The better seats don’t have the same parking deal that they used to possess.

I know it’s not a ton of cash, but they seem to be shaving operational money everywhere.

If things are not going well by mid January, I can see an additional step in Astro Joe’s plan (see July 17, 2008 5:11 PM post) to jettison Woody. Move Bibby to save about 6-7 mil.

It’s SUPPLE to the top of the organization!

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Pure Optimisim

By HB Ando

July 18, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Newkid: not really. And I’ll tell you why.

It appears to me (and in discussion with Big Ray) that recent reports hint towards a plausible, near-term future of Acie running the point, and a rehabbed Speedy ready to earn his contract. Those stories seem timed to provide a very real contingency for Bibby being moved. That addresses your insurance reimbursement for a retired Speedy idea (though I’m sure the thought has crossed all of our minds).

Secondly, I don’t even see the ASG upping the ante by $8 million, much less $12. And though Manny makes a good story out of such path, it’s pretty convoluted and complicated, and seems to ran counter to the KISS approach that explains most outcomes (especially with the ASG represents the final S in the acronym, as definably “stupid”).

It’s not that I question their desire. I just question the depth of their pocket books (as well as continuing to seriously wonder about the intelligence of the local members of the partnership, while maintaining a genuine fondness for Levenson).

But, again, I’m not trying to be right here. I’m just asking questions and trying to pin down the most direct, and logical, assumptions about what to realistically expect. This is different than having opinions on players, and their potential and value. I feel confident in my eyes, in that regard. But we continue to deal with a lot of unknowns, and “can’t be knowns”, as it relates to the ASG.

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck……..

I’ll stand by my belief that the quickest way to fix the numbers is to move Bibby for budget relief. I think that the Hawks are hoping that both Law and Speedy show enough this summer to make that feasible. I also think the ASG would like to wait until the very eve of the start of the season, when the majority of season ticket sales have already occurred, to trade Bibby, knowing that it will be an unpopular, but financially necessary, act.

And while I don’t know what they’ll get for Bibby (a younger, cheaper PG, to plug in to the mix, a trade exception, a big, or a first-rounder, or some combination of said options), I’m solid they can’t afford to keep him here, AND keep everyone else, AND add a couple of guys like Kwame.

When the dust settles, then it will be time for a prognosis on where the Hawks will be this season. I’m still saying they miss the playoffs.

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Check out the Atlanta All-City Team

Of course my guy Lou made the cut.

By doc

July 18, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

stevo,

euro nba econmics 101:

Matt W. said… He’s getting 8.5 million euros over three years, which means he’ll average $4.4 (US) dollars a year. In other words, he’ll make almost as much in a single year as he’s made his entire career ($4.7 million) in the NBA. And given the way Euro contracts usually work, that’s probably net, not gross. I’d say it’s a good deal for him.

playing for a second tier team and maybe the third best in the city of moscow. they are not counting peanuts dude.

By MannyT

July 18, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

SalimFan I did not see the rules for that tournament, but I was surprised not to see Rasheed Wallace holding down the C/F spot for the Philly team.

Ando The only quick, clear, easy ways to come up with 12 mil is to get a rich guy to give it to you for an equity stake in the ASG OR get a winning lottery ticket.

I’m sure you would have scoffed at me if I had given you 17, 44, 4, 26, 37, 40, and 22

I think we have been through a few rich guys. At this point, they probably need to put more of their own money in now and get a new partner after the lawsuit is settled.

Anyone got a score update on the RMR game vs Dallas? Where is a Utah based Hawks fan when you need one ;-)

WAF

By Cisco Kid from the ATL

July 18, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Proposal to improve the Atlanta Hawks

Sign and trade Josh Childress and 2009 1st or 2nd round pick for sign and trade of Ben Gordon. Sign free agents Kwame Brown, Randolph Morris, Wayne Simien, Luke Jackson and Josh Smith.

Fifteen man roster:

1st Team: PG - Mike Bibby, SG - Joe Johnson, SF - Josh Smith, PF - Al Horford and C - Kwame Brown.

2nd Team: PG - Acie Law, SG - Ben Gordon, SF - Marvin Williams, PF - Randolph Morris and C - Zaza Pachulia.

3rd Team: PG - Speedy Claxton, SG - Mario West, SF - Luke Jackson, PF - Wayne Simien and C - Solomon Jones.

These transactions would all fit under the salary cap and would create the deepest roster in Atlanta Hawks history.

By TheHawksFan

July 18, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Hawks win 89 to 70 something. J Rich and Luke Jackson lit up the night from 3. Mario West is a STUD. Played well till ankle turned. His shot really has improved. Acie was good, looked good running the team. Amazing to see Speedie. He looks healed. Our bigs were solid Picney Hunter Randle all were great. This is a Hell of a team. Dallas has been pimp slapping teams in the summer league. GoooooHawks!!!

By Samuel

July 18, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Cuz,

You could fill us in since yall decided to have Summer League in Siberia again.

By ray

July 18, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Good points, Ando, and thanks for the shout-out.

Damn, did we win by that much?

TheHawksFan, thanks for the info!

Somebody give a brotha the box score!!!!

Samuel, amen to that…why we always gotta go there?? Freakin’ Salt Lake City…

By stevo

July 18, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

doc,

you are aware that americans have been playing basketball abroad for decades, right? this is not news. oh, and i am aware that deflino is not american. are you? in fact, that kind of takes him out of the equation of the argument anyway, right?

look, players who cannot make it in the nba will go where they can get a better offer, no doubt. but i thought there was some thought in this argument that josh smith might go to europe for a year or something because of the exchange rate.

in that case, i have already made my argument why this is ridiculous, and i stick by them.

you talk about economics, but in my opinion, and i am saying this in the nicest way possible, you show a complete lack of understanding of how they work. now maybe i am crazy and i don’t know jack s* about it. ok, people have read the discussion, and everybody can judge for themselves.

but i think there is no point going over the same things time and time again. the bottom line is that economics are not decided in a vaccuum, and that is the fundamental point you cannot, or will not, grasp.

cheers!

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

If Speedy is healed, Bibby becomes expendable. Even though I’d like to see him play with the guys for the entire season. Well, time to go to work. You guys have a great night. Peace.

By terrell barron

July 18, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

Cisco, I think it’s kinds difficult to do a sign and trade, when both players are restricted. And I dont think that deal fore Gordon would save us any money whatsoever. But I’m not sure. Ando????

By Richie Rich

July 18, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Hawks won 89 to 74 Luke Jackson had 20 pts…5-7 on 3pt fg’s..5reb’s 4asst. Speedy 4pts 7 asst 2 steals in 16 min. Acie Law 3-13 fg’s 2 assist in 23 min. J-Rich led the Hawks with 21 pts 4 reb 4 asst

By Sautee

July 18, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Cisco Kid

Gordon’s a good offensive player but he does NOT move his feet well on defense. So would he get any playing time?

And he’s certainly not worth Chills and a pick, not to me, anyway.

And how would we pay for Kwame?

By doc

July 18, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

stevo first ,sober or not?

dont know the difference of delfino not being american as i think he is argentine going to russia instead of u s of a as it is a bigger move. is there some logic to the argument or just smoke?

btw what are you doing in the orient, finding it easier to make a buck there than in the u s? even if a company sent you therem it is relevant, folks CHOOSE to make more money overseas if it is there you or an argentine and if smith or anyone else gets a chance to go just like you they go whether they have to argue with chinese or those that show a lack of understanding of how economics work like myself. heh heh, ultimately folks will bolt if they can get more overseas whether they are american or not, especially if there is some leverage involved. the trend is there as the economy changes or havent you heard?

here’s to you!

By Melvin

July 18, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

Box score from Hawks vs Mavs game in the RMR today

By MannyT

July 18, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

Get your RMR summer fix here

By SalimFan

July 18, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Wow Acie had a horrible game!!! Barely any points or asists and he played 23 mins.

Then again he was probably just distubuting and no one made any shots of his first pass.

Well we won so someone (J-Rich) was doing their job.

By Samuel

July 19, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

Definately wouldn’t get too excited about this win. Dallas has played 5 games in 7 days and traveled on the sixth.

I hope Sund knows that Bibby is a must to resign. Bibby, JJ, Josh S and Horford should be keepers no matter what. Anything else can be sacraficed but we must have these 4. It’s good that Speedy was able to go a few minutes. Maybe we can trick somebody into taking him and his salary.

Hopefully,Richardson can be that other scorer we need, especially if we have to let Chills go. Mario can take up the slack on D. But we must sign the Core 4 of: Bibby, JJ, Josh S and Al.

By mykhal c

July 19, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

if SPEEDY is healed he STILL can’t shoot just like WOODSON can’t coach. NO PG on this team currently makes BIBBY expendable…PERIOD!!!

By ray

July 19, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

Got the boxscore from the Hawks site on NBA.com.

Acie didn’t have a very good game. He shot 3 for 13, and had 5 turnovers to 3 assists. He’s still finding that shot, I see. We’ll see what happens from here. Dude is a hard worker, so I’m sure he’ll improve.

Luke Jackson and Jeremy Richardson should’ve let Acie borrow their shots for a few minutes. Jackson was lights out, shooting 5 of 7 from deep and a great percentage overall. Richardson was 1 for 3 from deep, but shot 8-14 overall for a team high 21 points.

Othella Hunter seemed to do well. So did Pinkney, swatting three shots. Speedy did well, too.

Where are Brian Chase and Thomas Gardner? I thought they were on the roster, or did I miss something? Hmmmm.

terrell, I discussed this with Ando at length much earlier in the day. We both thought that Speedy’s re-emergence made Bibby expendable (especially with the usability of that big expiring contract). That, and some teams need a veteran pg. There’s only one problem. Bibby doubles as our second shooter. We currently don’t have any others that Woody uses. And Bibby is a sure thing from the perimeter. Can we trust things to the likes of Luke Jackson, Jeremy Richardson, and Thomas Gardner? Would the make the team? Would they be used properly by Woody? Tough questions. One solution, however, is this: In trading Bibby, we acquire a shooter. Has to be a reliable one though. Moving Bibby has its pros and cons…but at his salary, one has to guess that it’s either keep him (and let a guy like JSmoove go), or let him go (and keep Smoove). Again, this is all predicated on whether or not the ASG is both willing and able to spend the extra cash….

By ray

July 19, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

Mykhalc, that would be exactly the problem with letting Bibby go. Again, it all depends on what the owners are willing to spend. If they are really willing to spend more, then keep Smoove and Bibby…we need the shooting to say the least.

Sam, I see you cut your core of 8 to a core of 4. I like your core of 4 MUCH better.

By cp

July 19, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

I was not able to see the game so all I can go by is the boxscores. Richardson and Jackson were scoring the ball. Speedy had some nice assist numbers. Law struggled from the box score. I will be able to say more once I see the game. I want to see if Law shot was just way off or he had some tough luck. What happened to Justin Williams?

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

If Acie flops in summer leauge (He probably won’t have a bad game like that again) but nontheless if he flops. Woodson burnig bridges with Salim might look very dumb. Especially if Speedy can’t go because of that knee.

As much as I wouldn’t want speedy to have more knee problems or Acie to flop I would LOVE for Woodson to take a hit (PR Wise).

Did that Sound too mean???

It did?????

Bwahahahahahahahha.

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

Acie Might is loosing the battle against speedy.

BUT the War isn’t over yet.

By McNasty

July 19, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this

Damn

……….So Casey….where ya been Buddy???……..How’s The Congregation??………Particularly the YOUTH ministry?????

Bwahahahahahahaha

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 2:16 AM | Link to this

Check out Gilberts new Blog…..

Pay close attention to the part called “What did I say?” Giblert KNOWS what he’s talking about because he doesn’t have an agent. He’s been representing himself for most of his career, so he has to do a lot of reading to make sure he doesn’t screw up. Luckily with that FAT paycheck, I think he’ll be alright.

Whats with everyone traveling??? He Met Jet Li. He didn’t even BOLD it like he did with everyone else he met. Like it’s just common to be in Shanghai, China and HAPPEN to run into Jet Li.

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 2:31 AM | Link to this

O.K Check This out

Now This comment was inthe comments section….it’s just halarious

**Did he find a Filipino sandwich shop when he was out there?

Considering little filipino kids probably make his Gil Zeros I guess it makes sense that he went out there to say hello.

I’m Filipino btw so it’s not a racist comment**

I was Rolling after that one lol.

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 2:42 AM | Link to this

Gilbert cracks me up!

The people in Berlin were so nice though. One night we went to dinner at a nice restaurant and we didn’t have cash and it ended up being a cash-only place. (I’ve never heard of that before.) So we only had a credit card and we ate probably 90 euros worth of food – which is probably $140 American since Bush done messed up the economy - and they gave us the meal for free. It’s kind of funny, Bush. We can’t even go to Europe and be big ballers any more. They come to the U.S. and feel like kings now. Gas out there for us is nine dollars a gallon, I did the math and everything.

Now that’s bad Euro CRAP!!!!

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this

I’ve been paying attention to what’s been going on and I know that Maggette better thank Baron Davis for the contract he has because Baron opened up the market for him to get paid because if Baron hadn’t opted out there wouldn’t have been any money out there for him.

Gil on Magette….

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 2:56 AM | Link to this

Keyon Dooling not happy with the expected Sighn-and- Trade

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 3:10 AM | Link to this

Time for more summer Leauge Action…sorry no Hawk vids yet.

Anthony Randolph’s Vicious Attack on the rim.

Love With a nice Double-Double

If Kevin stayed in Memphis it would have been interesting to watch the Gay-Love combination ROFL!!!

By JayL

July 19, 2008 3:18 AM | Link to this

I hear there’s a mess (again) in the Hawks office. JChill may be headed to Europe and JSmith doesn’t want to play for Woodson. I’ll be Rick Sund is pleased as punch to be here!

By ray

July 19, 2008 4:19 AM | Link to this

Summer League: what it means and why it’s so great.

What it means:

1)Summer league wins = our scrubs and second year players are better than your scrubs…this time.

2)Summer league losses = your scrubs and second year players are better than our scrubs…this time.

3)Something better to talk about besides hearing your General Manager say the same exact thing for the 11,483rd time while he appears to be doing everything EXCEPT what he says he’s going to do. Hold on a sec….I think he just said it again. Nope, the 11,484th time didn’t sound any different…

4)More proof that Larry Drew should be the head coach. Yep, ol’ Larry coaches a group of mix-and-matched scrubs better than Woody does a group of talented NBA starters.

5)On any given day or night, a player not previously worth more than a 10-day contract can light it up for 20 or more points in a single game and look like the proverbial diamond in the rough. So can a rookie or young player who will never do that for you in an actual NBA game on a consistent basis. Oh wait….this happens in the d-league too…

Why summer league is so great…it’s slogan-tastic!

Summer league, it’s what’s for dinner! Get the door, it’s summer league! What’s in your summer league! Summer league, it’s everywhere you want to be! Summer league, with born-on date! We use extra hoppes in our summer league! You’re in good hands with summer league! Like a good neighbor, summer league is there! Can you summer league me now…good! I take my summer league reguarly, and I haven’t had a break-out in months…and neither has she/he! Summer league…we measure success one game at a time! Is your summer league sending all the wrong signals? Talk to your doctor about summer league dysfunction…get back to enjoying your life. New! Summer league quilted…for that bear that’s about to absolutely ruin that young sapling! Got summer league? Brought to you by….summer league!..and person who’s had entirely too much coffee…

By Gypsyjoe

July 19, 2008 4:46 AM | Link to this

I was reading about all the players that were missing. I did not hear why Gardner did not play does anybody have any info???

thxs

By Paddy

July 19, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this

The NBA is boring. Phillips is a ghost town most nights. The players have stopped relating to their fans.

By Samuel

July 19, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

Ray,

I don’t believe I ever said we must sign our core 8. I think I said that if we did we’d be better than last year. I have always said that we could move Childress and/or Marvin but my untouchables have never changed.

I also recall having a conversation with a certain dead president about Acie’s shooting. I believe he can improve his scoring but he’s probably never gonna be a great shooter. If he can come close to a Rondo he may be able to direct this team and take it where it’s capable of going but right now we need a Bibby caliber player.

By Ken Strickland

July 19, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Just hill RAY. You don’t have to explain or defend yourself to anyone on these blogs of any significance that khows you. There are certain personalities or intellects that have no reason, nor inclination to hide behind another moniker to express themselves. You are certainly one of those. So, stick with the intelligent, well thoughtout and well expressed dialogue and let all of the rest go by my friend.

Some of you seem to be under the misconception that Kwame Brown, if signed, wlll become a starter. His value to the team will be as a very versatile bench player that will expand the teams overall versatility. He can form a solid 3 man rotation between Smoove, if resigned, and Horford. Kwame replaces Horford at C. Later, Horford replaces Smoove at PF, then Smoove returns and replaces Horford at PF who then slides over and replaces Kwame at C. A rotation of Horford and Smoove at PF could be a handful for any PF in this league. Likewise, a rotation of Horford and Kwame at C could present obstacles for most of the C’s in this league.

Kwame and a healthy Speedy could add close to 10 wins to last yrs total. Their DEF alone could easily prevent some of those close loses, especially the ones where we gave up big leads. The only problem I can see with this arrangement is with Acie. If Woodson wouldn’t put forth the effort to develop Acie when he really needed his contributions, what do you think he’ll do now that he might have an experienced vet option in Speedy?

By doc

July 19, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

acie may end up in the shels waste bucket. so much is needed from him and so much expected. just may be hard to live up to as he is not a natural. one only has to look to his numbers in college. his growth spurt may have already come. we may be seeing what we get.

agree wholeheartedly with samuel if he is able to be as solid as rondo and play defense then he is the guy. thus far no evidence of that consistently even in the rook league where shels was first found out.

By doc

July 19, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

ken, if speedy wins the competition and helps this team more than acie to heck with his progress. if he cant compete with a life time back up then praise to woody for not putting him in.

the chances woody lost last year were the blow out games where he wouldnt substitute even when we were down. still remember when he put the whole second unit out there an nearly lost the game. it wa almost like he wanted them to fail. ill advised to do that against anyone with 10 minutes left. it is still substitution time not whole sale bench time. acie lost out several ops at appropriate times because of that as did many on the bench meaning they werent ready to play at nba speed when called upon. the speed of the game is just as different between practice and regular season just as much as it is between regular seasin and playoffs.

i know acie is hard working, dedicated and smart but so was shels. some have it and some dont. as a starter. acie is borderline, especially if he cant even dominate in rook league as a four year player and a one year pro, 11 pick at that. one game does not make a season even if rook league however it does give pause to reflect on how it may really be. pistons worry if stuckey’s big toe is okay to play we wonder if acie is capable to play period. one guy got coached up with a wining program with vets, the other bided his time on the bench with a marginal program. hmmm.

By ToeKnee

July 19, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

I think Kwame Brown would be an incredible addition to our team. worst case scenario hes a big guy who can fill in when we need him, best case scenario we find a diamond in the rough and he explodes in his home state. i think he has been through a lot and just needs an opportunity where hes not expected to be some allstar from day1.

I think this team looks great! the bench should round into shape and we just need to get the joshes signed obviously. but look at this SQUAD: Bibby Joe Marvin Josh

Childress Zaza Mario West Solomon Jones Jeremy Richardson Speedy Claxton KWAME BROWN!

NOW THAT IS A TEAM!! hope thats the roster because that is a SOLID team

youve got a great bench with chills as the glue, mario/jeremy=defense/offense,youve got 3 young bigs who should all improve zaza, kwame, and solo, and at point youve got speedy and acie to spell bibby. WHATS NOT TO LIKE??

By MannyT

July 19, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

doc what irony. The guy that coaches up the rookie on a very good team is out of work. The guy who buries the rookie on a sub 500 team gets an extension.

This just tells me that we shop for coaching at bargain basement prices.

But the cost saving might allow us to get our RFAs back ;-)

Not unlike living in a cheap apartment, but having all the latest home electronics.

WAF to the bank.

By MannyT

July 19, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Before you ship AC Law to the D-League (or Euroleagues ;-) over 1 game in Utah, let’s take a look back to the all stars of the 2004 Rocky Mountain Revue

There were 11 teams in Utah that summer, so there was good competition. Yes, some of these guys are still good today. Our team included 2 guys named Josh. After 4 years, I’d easily put our guys in or above the same talent tier with all these guys.

Patience grasshoppers…

I think there is a better chance to find tonight’s game since it is against Utah at 9 PM Eastern time. I’ll do some research this afternoon. If that Watch Live button works on the RMR site, then it’s easy.

WAF

By Cisco Kid from the ATL

July 19, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Sign both Randolph Morris and Kwame Brown. The Hawks probably have the least number of bigs in the NBA. Add these bigs to the ‘attack the rim’ athletic team we already have and we can dominate the paint for years to come. Look what we did against the Celtics without bigs. Also, just think about Al Horford playing his natural position of PF and how dominant he could be… What about Josh Smith playing SF and blocking shots from that position? Additionally, I say do a sign and trade with Josh Childress for Ben Gordon. We could use his shot off of the bench…Just some ideas.

By doc

July 19, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

no what it means manny t is that certain gm’s and owners have certain priorities and that is to expect a coach to use and coach what he has and to win the big one at the same time. it is also about the correct chain of command. the riony is we dont see the forrest for the trees that management does not set the bar that high.

it is also apparent knight didnt realize it but the coach reported to the owners not him. yup, dysfunctional management structure to say the least and at bargain basement prices. doubt if any of the owners went to harvard B school that is the lesson they were to learn. seems dumars doesnt have that to worry about. also if he blows a pick he gets to make it up by gong after a piece to fit into the mix like he did sheed.

stiill waiting for the sund (aka, my boy rick) to come up. maybe it is too dark for granny to drive, cataracts cut down visibility at night.

hey bud it is what it is.

speaking about what it is which may not be, i wonder what time it is in the orient and whether stevo is ready to harp in on business practices to further our education. that is, now that he has taught us about real world economy and exchange rates.

hey cisco are you going to pony up the bucks, go back and read the salient comments from ando above.

By Cisco Kid from the ATL

July 19, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

**Ando says to trade Bibby. What a joke. We didn’t have a point guard when Speedy was healthy and Acie still hasn’t proven he can do it consistently. Ando or anyone else don’t know what ASG is going to spend much less the fact that the salary cap number for this year has yet to be revealed. Do your homework before you start jumping to conclusions…I don’t know anyone on this blog that has a hotline to the GM’s office. The Hawks have been sitting tight on the Joshes so they don’t have to spend money unnecessarily to maybe sign some bigs such as Randolph Morris or Kwame Brown…So far their strategy has paid off. Oh…don’t forget, just because you frequently blog doesn’t make you an NBA GM.

By Cisco Kid from the ATL

July 19, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

**Ando says to trade Bibby. What a joke. We didn’t have a point guard when Speedy was healthy and Acie still hasn’t proven he can do it consistently. Ando or anyone else don’t know what ASG is going to spend much less the fact that the salary cap number for this year has yet to be revealed. Do your homework before you start jumping to conclusions…I don’t know anyone on this blog that has a hotline to the GM’s office. The Hawks have been sitting tight on the Joshes so they don’t have to spend money unnecessarily to maybe sign some bigs such as Randolph Morris or Kwame Brown…So far their strategy has paid off. Oh…don’t forget, just because you frequently blog doesn’t make you an NBA GM.

By reese

July 19, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Wow, I’ve been away from the blog awhile and people still are debating the merits of Josh Smith. The ASG and Rick Sund are following the same process that several other teams management in regards to their free agents.

Someone once asked me if I would Max out Josh Smith’s salary. My response was yes, however, I would not start off by offering him the max deal. Especially if I could get him at a lower price.

Face it, any GM in place knows that the team needs to resign Josh Smith. The problem I have with the Sund regime is that no big name free agents have been brought to town. No trades have been performed. The only direction that has been explained to fans is that he plans to match any offer sheet given to the Joshes and that big men Kwame Brown/Randolph Morris have been brought in for workouts.

Gilbert Arenas states how Philly should have pursued Josh Smith instead of Elton Brand because a lineup of Dalembert, J smith and Igudola would be very athletic.

I say he’s correct. However, I would have preferred to see a front court line up of J Smith, Al Horford and Marcus Camby. How do you help absorb Camby’s contract. You trade Marvin Williams for a future draft pick to another team. Then, make the trade with Denver for future 2nd round draft pick swap.

If you want to go in a different direction and continue to have a smaller lineup, then Trade Marvin Williams to Sacremento for Ron Artest. Then, bring in Kwame and Randolph Morris to come off the bench when a taller line up is needed.

My main point folks is to bring the focus off of sign Josh Smith and back to the real issue of bringing in a big name to compliment Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Mike Bibby and Al Horford. If it means sacraficing Marvin Williams and/or Josh Childress, then so be it.

By Joshua

July 19, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

S O S

By Joshua

July 19, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

S O S

By HB Ando

July 19, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Cisco, you don’t get it. The cap number has nothing to do with the conversation. It’s the track record of team salary expenditures, while the ASG has held ownership, that drives the issue. I don’t say trade Bibby. I say that if the ASG isn’t going to spend the $67 million required to keep the team together, AND sign a Kwame Brown for $3 mill or so, then Bibby is the most obvious way to reduce the payroll to the level the ASG has historically kept it ($54.5 million last year, the most they’ve ever spent).

It’s guys like you that need to do some homework: on the track record for spending, of the ASG, and on the basic math I outlined in that post. Now, if you can objectively find a flaw in that math, then go ahead.

But the issue of Bibby is not about wanting to see him go. Clearly, we’re a better team with him here. I just don’t believe, and I see nothing in the way the ASG is dealing with it’s RFA’s, or seeking out to improve the roster via player signings, that suggests that anything has changed with their financing. They still have to come up with the money to buy Belkin out.

Let me put it back on you, and folks with your clueless perspective: give me one solid bit of evidence that supports the idea that the ASG can or will increase the team payroll by $10-12 million.

Just one….

By Cisco Kid from the ATL

July 19, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Ando, just because they haven’t spent the money before, doesn’t mean they won’t spend it this year. With any company, expeditures increase year by year. Again, you act like you are a part of ASG and you know what’s going on behind closed doors. Surely ASG plans on signing a big or two and rapping up both Joshes. This is what they have communicated through the media. They have not made an offer to either to see what the market is for them. Being clueless is acting like you actually are an NBA GM and just spouting off supposed spending strategies and etcetera… With the success the team had last year with increased attendance, the ASG can make more money this year…Especially if they put a better product on the floor by spending MORE MONEY.

By reese

July 19, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

HB Ando, your not painting the full picture when it comes to salary limitations for a team and creative ways to get around those limitations. Joe Johnson was willing to settle for 50mil contract when he was with Phoenix. You know why, he had nash, amare, marion and perceived chance to win a championship.

Wouldn’t the idea of signing a 55 million dollar contract and taking less the first 2 years (to keep the team closer to the cap) look more appealing to Josh Smith if you made a move to bring in players he believes better compliments the team and give the perception that the team is trying to win a championship.

A player like Camby only makes 8mil a year this year and 7.5 the next. A player like Artest, though more risky only makes 8.4 mil this year and is a free agent the next.

By MannyT

July 19, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Breaking news—-ASG Holding Exclusive Car Wash. No Fords, Chevys, Chryslers allowed.

Detailing for Hummers, Jaguars, Bentleys et al starts at 100k. Car wash will be done by A-Town Dancers.

All proceeds will benefit the POP Foundation.

POP = Pay Our Players

;-)

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

If you ask me this all falls on the shoulders of a coach who doesn’t know how to properly develop players.

As it stands now. Salim would have been the guard that made Bibby expendable. I also cannot think of a more perfect coach to teach salim how to play better defense and become a better floor general than Avery Johnson.

But because of Woodson’s Biased approach twoard some players and his sub par coaching ability. You now have a 14mill Bibby and if Acie can’t get his act together or Speedys knee doesn’t hold up, there will be no one left to back him up. Making Bibby a necessity rather than an expendable price tag.

Ando is corect, The ASG hasn’t given us any indication that they will spend the cash necessary to keep this team moving in the right direction.

But this is a turning point in our franchise. I’m sure the ASG realizes that this season can make or break them financially. And that it’s all predicated on how the FANS react to the product being put on the floor.

By j

July 19, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Hello, Stein has posted an update on Smoove: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=NBA-Notes-080719 Josh Howard? Cheers, J

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

If I was the GM. Avery Johnson Would be HC. I would Have signed Salim back to run the point Full time. I would then trade Bibby for Mike Miller.

It would have to be a three team deal because I don’t think Miller makes as much as Bibby does. Also Minnesota does not need another Point Guard. So the third team would probably be someone who needs Bibby’s services (What king of GM would I be to let bibby suffer in Minnesota??).

So the starting lineup would be:

Salim, Joe, Miller, Smoove, and Horford.

The Bench would Consit of:

Acie, Chills, Marvin, Zaza, Kwame, Randolph, Simien, Jeremy Richardson, Mario West, (another shooter).

That way were still young (Bibby is 30 now). We’re also equipped to handle anything. Size in the frontcourt comes the Bench While the most talented players (Obviously) are in the starting lineup causing mismatch problms for other teams……as witnessed when Boston had trouble keeping up with us.

With that lineup……i’ll estimate about 71-75mill. But ou’re gaurenteed at least a second round berth every year. Remember, Avery Johnson is my Head Coach.

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget to factor in that my team is young and will develop and get better for YEARS to come. Not to mention that DET and BOS will be old and washed up in a couple of years, giving us the opening for a championchip.

By Reggie

July 19, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

By Marc Stein

Josh Smith’s increasing reluctance to return to the Atlanta Hawks has little to do with Mike Woodson, despite repeated media suggestions that Smith is eager to play for someone else.

Smith and Woodson are fine, one confidante insists. Smith’s frustration with the Hawks is the slow-moving state of negotiations, with Smith apparently still waiting for a serious contract proposal nearly three weeks into free agency.

Not that this is a grand surprise or a quandary exclusive to Smith. The only team in the league with salary-cap space to throw at premier restricteds such as Smith, Charlotte’s Emeka Okafor and Chicago’s Luol Deng is the Memphis Grizzlies, who have no plans to make their money available this summer, preferring to focus on trade possibilities. So the Hawks, Bobcats and Bulls are naturally proceeding slowly and conservatively, figuring that their prized assets have limited leverage.

Which is true. Threatening to sign a one-year qualifying offer that would lead to unrestricted free agency in the summer of 2009 is pretty much the only way Smith can apply pressure on the Hawks now.

Yet I suspect that the sign-and-trade chatter will begin to pick up, maybe in all three cases, with Smith said to be especially eager to move on.

I wonder, for example, if my coaching pal who asked me why the Dallas Mavericks aren’t trying to assemble a deal that features former ACC player of the year Josh Howard going to Atlanta in some sort of package for Smith isn’t onto something.

Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Thanks J. That’s good stuff.

By j

July 19, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Hello, SalimFan, my pleasure.
Cheers, J

By ToeKnee

July 19, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

yeah the fan in me wants to just scream SIGN THE MAN ALREADY! but the hawks are not alone here, this is a business. I want josh smith back in a hawks uniform, but hes not lebron james, hes not joe johnson, and while i think he’s definitely worth keeping, the price should be reasonable(relatively at least). because the hawks do need to be able to sign kwame brown, extend horford and joe coming up, possibly extend bibby for a reduced salary if acie isnt ready(but i think he will be in a year). but with bibby and speedy coming off the books after this year, and after all the developing we’ve gone through with josh, it would just be Painful to watch him excel elsewhere. I hope we keep him. and im pretty confident ownership feels the same way. basically, that they want josh, but they’re not gonna max him out, and theyve already had this free agency shake out how theyd hoped for last year(with no teams really having the money to go after a restricted guy) and now why rush into a fat contract when you can save a bit.

This is the test though, if they sign josh to a solid salary like they should, then we can understand their work and see that they want to win and will put the money into the franchise. but if they let him walk it will prove once and for all that all the conspiracy theorists here are right and ASG really is all about keepin it on the low(dolla dolla bills yall). so i hope asg puts the money out there for a good team, weve been playing at the minimum rookie contract for too long now, its time to play with the big boys, and that means paying up.

By kirknga

July 19, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Sautee, in regards to your July 17 5:21pm post, thanks for the correction;I did intend to type uncalled for. But, as steveo pointed out it is about communicatio;so as long as you understood the point why bring it up an error?But thanks for the point of clarification.

“Patting myself on the back”? Huh? I think it best to keep my impressions to myself on this one.

I’m detecting animosity and that is unfortunate, I much prefer to sustain rapprochement.

There were never more than a few teams that had enough cap room to make a big offer anyway, so I don’t think the lack of offers reflects as much on Smith as it does on the market.

Um, uh, well, like this is what I’ve(and a few others) been saying from the start when I made my point ASG reading the market and playing this correctly.

MannyT

In regards to your July 17 11:21pm post, I’m not sure what it is you are asking of me? So my answer is that I read the exchanges of the time period in question as classic small group dynamics. Specifically,in my opinion, what is referred to as the Recurring Phase Model.

My interpretation of events is that what took place was enforcement of group norms. It is really these indigenous norms, not an outside individual which determine “place”, if any is to be had.

I have suspicion that this may be your point as well. I could be wrong that is why I opened my comments with a plea for clarification.

I am hesitant to go much further as I have been chastised for recognition of the group’s existence and that surely any mention of it by me is a sign of implicit ingratiation.

You see the dilemma don’t you?

The one basketball related issue I could discern in the exchanges that I care to comment upon(and only because you asked me about that time period) was playing in Europe vs in the USA.

I think I agree with parts of most of the comments. I know that there are some people who do not necessarily aspire to play in the USA, for whatever reason.

We will see in a few weeks, that the level of competition in these international leagues has improved as have the interest and salaries concomitantly. The Olympics will showcase the best talent in the world and we will get a look at Anderson and others.

I will close with a reminder that Anderson did include out clauses in his contract and I cannot imagine that he did so for no good reason. I still hope we see in a Hawks uniform in the future. Of course that is only if he shows well in a few weeks. If he doesn’t, then leave his butt overseas.

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

LOL, Kirk you’re ok in my book lol. Besides The first time (That I can Recall) Stevo posted on here he was calling me “a complete tool” heh.

I think you just took some things too seriously and I don’t think you realized that people were joking.

That’s just my opinion on the matter.

By ray

July 19, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Well, well, well. Now a “national media source” insists that Josh Smith’s alleged reluctance to return to Atlanta has little to do with Mike Woodson, and he is just pi$$ed about the lack of serious contract negotiations. Wow. Is it now okay to believe what Sekou has said all along, now that we have a “national media source” backing it up?

Well, played it smart by waiting for the market to determine his price. The market has not determined his price. So….what must the next smart move be? I can only wonder…

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

Ray, It’s so rediculous that it’s not even worth mentioning. He may have some leverage during the regular season but now Stein is just trying to have a reason for his ESPN bosses not to “Give him a break without pay” until training camp rolls around lol.

By O'brien

July 19, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Cisco Kid The salary cap for this season is about $58.6 million, so the ASG would have to go over the cap to keep this team in tact and add a big and a shooter. I hope they are willing to make that financial commitiment, but until they do, I will not give them the benefit of the doubt.

By kirknga

July 19, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Salim Fan

The first rule of the Hawks Blog is…

Just my own little flava. I really don’t take this place, or myself seriously.

Thanks for the infoReggie. While it is proof of nothing, it is more antedoctal weight for those of us who have said from the start that we do not make the assumption that Josh Smith wants to be a Hawk.

Looks as if when we were told to “not believe the hype” about Josh Smith not wanting to return, well, I’ll leave it alone.

I personally don’t care what the reason could be and tried hard not to emphasize a particular reason. I always thought that with him an unsigned RFA and having rejected a previous contract offer, it wasn’t a given he wanted to return.

The coach? The owners? The team? The uniform colors? I don’t care, if he doesn’t want to be on the team I follow then move him by all means.

If he really does want to stay and this is mostly some negotiating tactic,are there similar reports from the Deng or Okafor camps? If not, I wonder why they’ve chosen, to this point, to keep things closer to the vest during the process?

As I stated in earlier posts, it might be very interesting should some sign and trade rumors surface. I must say a deal for Josh Howard doesn’t sound too interesting at this point.

By Sautee

July 19, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Kirknga

First off, I did not intend even a smidgen of animosity in that post. Zero. Nada. Zip. Sorry if it somehow sounded that way, but no.

Secondly, not everyone who reads the blog is here on a regular basis, no? So KNOWING how important a point you were trying to make, I naturally thought “well if that were me, I’d wish someone had caught it and set it straight”. No evil intent. Not even a “teasing” intent, which is my wont. Had you caught it yourself, after seeing it in print, wouldn’t you have posted a disclaimer?

Third, I posted what I did about Josh based on your earlier assessment of as you put it “so few teams interested” in him as if that somehow reflected on his shortcomings. My larger point was that it was just as much about how few teams had cap room as it was about his “marketability”.

By kirknga

July 19, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Sautee

Tongue and cheek works both ways my friend. Sometimes I play to certain expectations.Please believe me when I say I don’t take myself seriously!

Your “larger point” is a good one I think, of course I believe this in part because it is entirely consistent with my premise about correctly reading the market.

Now where’s my mirror so I can watch myself type all of this wonderful insight.

By Ken Strickland

July 19, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

ANDO-I agree with your analysis to a point. The one thing you didn’t consider is long term vs short term commitment. Certainly, they probably wouldn’t commit to that increase long term. But, with Bibby and Zaza’s contracts expiring after the season, they might be willing to bite the bullet for one yr.

You’ve stated how other teams in the East have added talent and gotten better. They may have added talent and gotten better on paper, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into a better team or better. I remember a number of yrs ago when the Hawks added a lot of talent(Reggie Theus and Moses Malone) and sold out of season tickets because fans thought we would have a better team. We were consideered the team to beat in the East, but that team fell far short of expectations. However, they might have exceeded expectations had they been given another season to jel. What looks good on paper, doesn’t always translate into what’s expected. Also, look at what everyone was saying about Denver after they acquired AIverson. How far have they gone with all of that talent? Having a lot of talent doesn’t mean you will automatically have a talented “TEAM”, and TEAM being the key consideration.

By SalimFan

July 19, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Look’s like the lakers let Turiaf go.

By jhan

July 19, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

The Hawks waited 4 years for Josh Smith to learn how to play in the NBA. He can’t wait a couple of months for the Hawks to make him one if the richest people in the United States? His expected salary will place him in the upper .5% in this country.

I want both Joshes to sign here. I want additional quality players added to this team as well. I also would like for all these moves to happen tonight!

We are an “instant gratification” fan base following a situation that seems to be calling for “patience”. The ASG only has one chance to get these contracts correct. Overpaying now will greatly hamper future efforts to keep this team competitive. They don’t have the resources to throw “good money after bad”.

I’m just hoping they don’t overplay their hand with regards to this waiting game. Sometimes when you have the best hand you slow play - other times you go all in! Hopefully the ASG & Sund know how to play poker.

By ray

July 19, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Sam, I wasn’t accusing you of anything. I just like the more narrowed scope of 4 guys we really need to have, although I’m also open to movement of one of them IF and only IF it makes our team better over the scope of both mid and long term. I definitely feel like we need to improve the 8 man rotation by whatever reasonable means necessary. Depth has been a problem for us. But of course, there are two main schools of thought on the subject: 1)It’s the coach’s fault for not utilizing the players available or 2)The coach doesn’t have adequate tools to work with on the roster (you can rate this lightly or heavily, depending on your level of vehemence).

Or…you can mix the concepts of both theories. That’s my favorite, personally…

Kirk, pardon me if I sound dumb, but I don’t know what “antedoctal” means. I really do like to think that I can keep up with the conversation, but have to admit that you lost me on that one.

As for assuming that Josh Smith wanted to be here, I believe that most of us are going off of the very words that came out of his mouth last year, which is the last time we got an official word from him, and not the media or his agents. Josh himself said he wanted to be here. Now I suppose we’ve gone from the subject of assumption to whether or not he is a liar. Steering clear of that….I don’t believe that I could blame a guy for not wanting to come back to a job if he doesn’t feel like his bosses want to pay him what he feels that he’s worth. I believe that is what many people are thinking of by way of assumption.

Of course, not assuming that he wants to be here is not evidence of assuming that he doesn’t want to be here…it’s just firmly straddling the fence.

By ray

July 19, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Jhan, you’re right. Instant gratification is how we think. It’s true.

But on the flip side of the coin….The ticket sales personnel contacted you before, during, or shortly after the end of our season did they not? Oh, they want your money now when they can’t even guarantee what the product is going to look like. That’s the name of the game, though.

And as hokey and unrealistic as this is going to sound (especially coming from a civil servant like myself)…would you see it the same way in his shoes? If you looked around at your colleagues and saw what they were making, and your production was favorably comparable to theirs…would you be thinking about what percentile you’re about to be part of in the U.S. salary-wise, or would you be thinking “when am I going to get paid around what these guys are making, since I’m as good as they are (or close to it).” No, we rarely think about what we have compared to those who have less. We often focus on whether or not we’re keeping up with the proverbial Joneses. We focus on those of us who are on our particular “level.” Or we’re looking at the level above us. I think it would be disingenous to suggest otherwise…

By Sautee

July 19, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

jhan

“Instant gratification’s not fast enough..”.

Suzanne Vega

;-)

By richbrave

July 19, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

SALIM FAN:

Thanks fror the props several weeks back on my recovery. Appreciate the boost. later. Go Hawks.

By doc

July 19, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

jhan as we all wait including josh smith to get an offer as the right thing to do many teams are using this opportunity to get it righter if you know what i mean. it seems the hawks wont even know what they want to offer much less smith knowing where to start the negotiation.

By doc

July 19, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

jhan as we all wait including josh smith to get an offer as the right thing to do many teams are using this opportunity to get it righter if you know what i mean. it seems the hawks wont even know what they want to offer much less smith knowing where to start the negotiation.

By kirknga

July 19, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

ray

It’s not like you to miss the deep psychological forces behind such an obvious gaffe.Surely such a thing is nothing more than an attempt by me to have you say something to me.

Ray I only typed such a thing because I knew you wouldn’t be able to help yourself. Thanks for seizing upon the fact that I am a poor speller and that I often don’t treat a blog post as would some formal piece of writing.

And thanks for talking to me.

Again, as I’ve stated from the beginning, when the received wisdom was that a Smith signing with Philly was imminent, (and then on through when it changed to Golden State, and on then the Clippers)I cautioned against assuming that he wanted to be a Hawk.

A conservative, but prudent concept I thought. I had no idea that it would turn out to be so controversial or noteworthy.

I can’t help but note that you mention the words of Smith and take them at face value, yet when ASG states they want to retain his services, their “official word” is suspect.

Like I said, at this point, I don’t care. It’s about winning. If he doesn’t want to be part of this team, move him. Again, I ask the question why haven’t we heard such things coming from Deng or Okafor? Is it a character difference perhaps? Maturity? An understanding of the process?

Whatever the case, the story does give nourishment to those who offer daily servings of ASG recrimination.

By TheHawksFan

July 19, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

72 63 Hawks beat the Jazz. Acie showed up tonight Big Time. He looked awhole better tonight taking it to the hole. Mario played like a beast again. Look like he had 7 or 8 aasist running the point. J Rich was kinda quiet but still shot very well. Speedy is Back Folks! Our backcourt will be set if he keeps going. Luke Jackson was kinda quiet. Hunter and Picney can flat out shoot. Robinson played hard and great D. These guys play well together, came back and won a tough game! GOOOO HAKKWSS!!

By ray

July 19, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

Kirk,

Well, everybody misspells a word, but what was I going to do? Assume you misspelled or assume that it was a word that I just didn’t know? I erred on the side of ignorance….

I have to laugh at some of the stuff you say, as you surely laugh at some of what I say. What I mean is this:

You are right to note that while I take Josh Smith’s words at face value, I do not when it comes to the ASG. Referrence my previous posts, where I allude several times to the idea that we choose to believe what we will. You can choose to believe what a player says…or you can choose to believe what an organization says. But it’s not just that simple, either. Josh Smith can say “I want to be a Hawk next year.” I take him at face value. Perhaps you or somebody else does not. Why should anybody take him at face value? Can he prove that he will do what it takes to remain a Hawk, or promise not to change his mind, regardless of what circumstances might change? Conversely, the ASG can say “We will match any offers to Josh Smith, we will sign him.” I can choose to believe that. Or I can choose not to. Or I can choose to believe that these guys will do what’s in their best business interests, regardless of whether or not that means they will do what they say they will do. Can they prove that they will do whatever it takes to retain Josh Smith? They haven’t yet. Will they do what they say, regardless of the financial ramifications?

So you see, there is no evidence, nor action to support either concept or belief. In the end, we are left with a choice: believe or don’t believe. And the funniest part is that our beliefs are not in any way linked to what will actually happen. Essentially, we are neither right nor wrong, as too many factors, variables, and circumstances are involved. In this case, beliefs are based on faith, not evidence. And faith is a matter of what? Choice.

Also, your “conservative but prudent” concept is acceptably that. Especially if you choose to believe the concept. But what is amusing (and you might find it so as well) is that you say that you had no idea that it would turn out to be so controversial or noteworthy. Well, that’s two ways of putting it. Judging by the adjectives you used, one would think that you see your proclaimed concept as famous or blog-shaking. Do not be so coy ol’ boy. Surely your memory is as long and as sharp as mine, no? I do seem to recall words that came from you , stating that you were here to offer a different point of view. How did you describe it…”going against the grain” as it were? Furthermore…

Your continual referrences to a “group” and the “received wisdom” from said group are incriminating, to say the least. If you truly see things thusly, then surely you would expect your obviously and vehement (at least in the early going) opposing views to be taken note of yes? I recall once again you telling me that you didn’t mind going against the grain (and issued the challenge “how about you?”), against the so-called “prevailing” received wisdom upon the blog from the once more “group” of individuals.

To think that you could repeatedly say such things in such lightly veiled and mocking fashion without the idea ever occurring to you that you might stir up a hornet’s nest is an insult to your intelligence. In fact, that was something a few of us caught onto some time ago (and thus the change in attitude and approach from some of us). Some of us, such as myself, found it amusing, as I have done such things myself before. Others of course, did not. It’s kind of like telling a joke. No matter how many people get it and laugh, there’s always some that don’t get it or don’t think it’s funny.

“Controversial and noteworthy” my arse…you knew what you were doing from the beginning, you clown….Heh! It was a good one, too…Took me in at first.

By ray

July 20, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

Kirk, don’t you love the way I can use so many paragraphs to say ONE thing: You believe in the ASG…and I do not. That is the very crux and soul of our disagreements. I still think you’re subtlety is funny. It just wasn’t so easy to catch at first…especially while I was plying my own brand (yes, I sometimes get caught up in my own devious machinations). Tell me, what impact do you see Speedy’s recovery (if it manages to continue) playing on the situation. By that, I mean how do you see him fitting in? I have to wonder what this means with Bibby in the fold. Bibby could go, or Speedy could go. Or neither could go. One thing is for sure: a healthy Speedy is an asset we’ve been missing. Whether for depth and help on our roster…or use in trade.

TheHawksFan, thanks for the update.

By SalimFan

July 20, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

No Problem RichB!! Just get better lol.

Look it all comes down to this. All of the Restriced free agents are down to their trump card which is picking up their one year option on their contracts. If the do this LeBron will hardly be the headline With all those great players out there, a team with a lot of cash could get them all!!! Like New Jersey??? Can you say nightmare….Like that’s going to happen.

There’s no more money left out there. Teams are over the cap and everybody is strapped nowadays. The home teams are back in the driver seat. Time for them to pony up and start negotiating their own contracts with their players.

Hey what do you guys think about Mo Evans???

By ray

July 20, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

Good point, SalimFan.

By kirknga

July 20, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

ray

And here I was minding my own business.

Bless your heart! You sound bored tonight. Nothing like yet another “what’s wrong with Kirk” essay. You’ve taken a bit of a point here, and a bit of another there,and conjured up all sorts of indignation and pathology.

Thanks For Sharing!

By kirknga

July 20, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

ray

To answer your question about the PG’s. I don’t see Speedy doing anything until he is actually healthy, get’s through camp, and into the regular season. He is the Mike Hampton of the Hawks.

Perhaps he will be an asset. I hadn’t realized it until someone mentioned it earlier but his contract is up as well after this season?

If he regains form, then the most obvious impact is not upon Bibby, who is established, but Acie who may or may not be able to run the team. Can Acie run the team? Can he stay healthy?

As I’ve stated before, I would keep Bibby, yes even if Speedy has a great year. Bibby has a better track record and when healthy is among the top 6-7 PG’s in the league. I’d let Speedy walk, or better yet, trade him if Acie is healthy and has shown measurable progress come the trade deadline.

If Bibby gets hurt, or does not seem resignable, then perhaps Speedy’s value changes.In any case, I do not want to return to the days of not having a suitable PG running the team.

Given the current make up of the roster, the PG issue long-term is more crucial, in my opinion, than the Josh Smith issue.

By SalimFan

July 20, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

I just usually go here whenever one of you says a word that expands past my current vocabulary (Ray this ones for you lol).

It’s in my favorites section in my left window pane on my computer. I simply pull up another tab go there and have at it lol.

You’re especially fun to read kirk because you add a new word to my vocabulary in a daily baisis.

By SalimFan

July 20, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

Oh and I can’t forget about you Ray. You who has give me one of my new favorites…..I seriously thought you had made this one up lol.

By hawkfan

July 20, 2008 2:56 AM | Link to this

We should just set up a sign and trade with Josh Smith to the Mavs for Josh Howard and expiring deals.

By McNasty

July 20, 2008 5:33 AM | Link to this

Oh you two…When will the PAIN end?? This is a Classic case of Dramatic Irony, and neither of you seem to have stage fright. It’s like when a married couple argues in public but no one else can tell because they’re being subtle and using “Polite Undertones”.

In my 1:21 am post you can clearly see that I am subtly trying to let Kirk know that Yes ray did not in fact know what the word meant Kirk and you completely misinterpreted that and gave a ridiculous response to it. I don’t know if everyone else just doesn’t understand the “subtle” language or they just do not care, but I’ve been trying mediate and explain to both parties as need when either of you misinterpret something the other has said. Usually more often that not Kirky boy will misunderstand something that Ray says that’s usually meant to be a joke.

Ray, for the record Kirk isn’t always joking so you aren’t finally “getting it.” He just happened to be joking this time…which he usually does when someone (me) mentions that he needs to lighten up a little.

Kirk, remember when ray wrote a long paragraph and I basically summed it up with three words??? I think I said Agree To Disagree…yeah that was after ray explained that “he can keep giving his valid points just as long as you can keep giving yours.” And “No matter what either of you say, nether of you will persuade the other to their way of thinking.”

Look, I understand that you both are very smart and that you both have pretty broad vocabularies. But seriously…COME ON. You both are trying to prove points and tell each other off in the most polite ways possible…simultaneously!!!

At first there was a lot of tension because Kirk would be so serious and taking offense to everything and Ray would light heartedly explain what he meant in a joking manor, and then Kirk would AGAIN get the wrong impression…so the vicious cycle continued. Then I would bluntly let Kirk know he was being too serious. Then things would be fine *for about a day or so before it all went to hell again. * Kirk being too serious and Ray being Mr. Subtle.

So I’ve formed my conclusion. We seem to have two contrasting styles here. Mr. Subtle and Mr. Blunt. They do have something in common though. In they both have big vocabularies and are both very long-winded. Some people refer to it as being a windbag but that’s them. You see what I just did. Ray would get that joke whereas Kirk would probably try to explain to me that long-winded people are not “technically” called windbags. Anyway, by long-winded I mean that you both use extreme detail when explaining something that can be said in a couple of sentences or short phrases.

Maybe that’s who you guys are *or maybe you’re just trying to sound smart. * Well I’ll tell you what you’re succeeding in doing, and that’s out-smarting yourselves. Yes, you both communicate in similar fashion by going into excruciating detail to prove your points…well, not really. You just use more words to get the job done. But if you’d just step back and observe, you’d realize that you two don’t speak the same language (Well I’m pretty sure ray realizes this he’s just doesn’t like to lose.)

Blunt and Subtle from a social standpoint, are polar opposites. But fear not! Someone who is very adept to the social structure in which we communicate can easily solve this dilemma. Someone who is very sensitive to social undertones and the subtle behavior of all human beings alike…Me. Or one of you can change you communication pattern in order to effectively get through to the other person… let’s stick with the first option.

Just think of me as an interpreter. Here I’ll give the both of you a dialogue…

Ray: Kirk I respect you as a person, which is why I mean this in the nicest way possible when I say. Everything that you just said is complete BS and I don’t agree with any of it…and get that stick out of you’re a$$ and lighten up. You’re horrible at interpreting jokes. Screw the ASG!!

Kirk: Ray I feel the exact same way about you. Oh and your jokes aren’t funny…I didn’t even know that you were joking until someone told me. I support the ASG and have faith in Rick Sund. In the end they will do what they said they would. I see the Big Picture in what Head Coach Mike Woodson is doing with our players.

Ray: So basically we agree to disagree??

Kirk: Yes…. I guess we do.

Ray: Wait, didn’t we already do this once before??

Kirk: Was that supposed to be funny???

See how I just condensed your argument into a short dialogue.

*I explained all of this in excruciating detail in order to sum it up in just a few sentences. *

Guys cut it out. It’s clear that you two are on completely different social levels at this point in your lives. So ray cut the man sum slack and bluntly tell Kirk what you mean so he’ll understand.

Also, the greatest distance between two points is straight. In lames terms that means, For the sake of your fellow readers, as few words as possible. Now I’m not talking all the time, like when you are stating your opinion. I mean no five-page arguments.

Here I’ll give you a dialogue example:

Ray: Kirk, blah blah blah blah blah

Kirk: Huh? Blah Blah you suck Blah Blah the ASG is the greatest blah……. So anyway like I was saying before is was interrupted. Balh Blah Blah *Woodson’s the man.

Ray: I see, I completely understand your opinion and the fact that we do not see eye to eye on the matter…. Oh, and screw you too. I meant that in the nicest way possible because I respect you Kirk.

See? It’s simple

One more helper, especially for you __. If you’re joking and you are not sure if it will come of as being arrogant. There are a couple of symbols that help give your readers the understanding.

1) JK (Meaning: I was just joking or Just Kidding)

2) LOL (Laughing out Loud)

3) ROFL (Rolling on the floor with laughter)

4) ROFLOL (I think you get it now)

5) STFU

6) LMAO or LMFAO

7) Or these 0_o :)

Add one of these bad boys to the end of you statement and your intentions automatically become clear.

I’m out… That means I’m finished with this post and I’m going away.

You sadistic sarcastic b a s t a r d s…JK

By doc

July 20, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

here is the schedule for tv from the rmr:

A few of you asked about TV telecasts from here, and while none of the games will be shown live on NBATV, you can catch the following Hawks games next week — Friday’s game vs. Dallas will be shown Tuesday, July 22 at 3 p.m. (and replayed July 26 at 1 p.m.). Tonight’s game will be televised Wednesday, July 23 at 5 p.m. and 11 p.m., with Monday’s game against the D-League unit available for viewing on Thursday, July 24 at 9 p.m. (and replayed July 27 at 1 a.m.).

glad to see acie doing it yesterday. he will thrive when allowed to go to the basket, teams that fill the middle well or defend the inside with quickness will give him probs until he develops an out side shot or has a group of shooters around him. with the hawks he will need to take it into his own hands as the second part of the equation is not there unless woody and rick find him some trusted playmates for the bench.

By Sautee

July 20, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

Here’s my take on the Ray vs. Kirk thing. Actually it’s on the Kirk vs. the Wisdom thing.

Kirk has very obviously taken a Marxist view. That would be Groucho Marx as when he famously said:

“I don’t care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members. ” ;-)

Kirk, remember the words of Peter Gabriel:

“There’s safety in numbers when you learn to divide. How can we be in if there is no outside?”

From “Not One Of Us”. But you post here, so despite your protests otherwise, you are one of us.

At some point, if you remain here, your posts will be (if they are not already) part of the “Perceived Wisdom” you like to mention. Oh horrors! See what happens when you hang out with the wrong crowd. ;-)

By JohnGTFan

July 20, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

SEKOU

What do you think ATL will get for Josh Smith, since he more than likely isn’t coming back? Do you believe the rumors about him going to Dallas, with Josh Howard being part of the deal? I’d certainly be more receptive to that one!!

By doc

July 20, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

man i sure wish tiger was healthy. it would have been interesting to see how he approached things. he has to be saying sorry i missed this weather or this opportunity.

i wonder if ray has started to talk to himself doing the night shift. like wwf . kinda doing my scroll thing that dmb taught me, let me know if i am missing anything.

By Sautee

July 20, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

doc

And what if you scroll past our “letting you know?”

;-)

By terrell barron

July 20, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

I just caught the highlights of the game, and Acie looked a lot better. 13 points in the 3rd quarter alone. Finished with 17 and 5. Did anyone see the game?

By terrell barron

July 20, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

Ken Strickland, check out my post from July 18 at 2:41 p.m., and then look at yours from July 19 at 8:19p.m. lol!!

By terrell barron

July 20, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

The Oklahoma City Thunder? Sounds like an Arena League team. lol!

By ray

July 20, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Alrighty then. I see that not only does the shoe fit, but on more than one foot. Or in more than one mouth. Or a$$….whatever the case may be. Enough.

By doc

July 20, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

terrell i posted the tmes to watch above for those interested. se the 9:26 post and get your tivo on.

should have been ok city tornado.

By doc

July 20, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

sautee, when i see a ray post start kirk and vice versa i know it is probably not relevant to me or basketball, most likely. most of the humor and intelligence that could have been enjoyed is gone, too.

By ray

July 20, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Can Acie Law run the team? Who the hell knows. He didn’t get many chances to do it last year. In effect, he is almost a season behind. Of course, there are varying opinions as to why that is.

As stated before, a healthy Speedy becomes an asset either way. He’s either trade bait or does sufficient time in the backcourt. If he’s going to continue to get minutes in lieu of Law, then let Law go. He’s doing us no good if his development is going to be delayed once again. In fact, if that’s going to be the case, then go visit Memphis and pry Kyle Lowery or somebody away from them. He’s not going to want to be there much longer anyway as Conley’s duplicate and backup.

I agree with keeping Bibby around for two reasons: his track record (as stated by several people) and his other prominent role: the second of only two true shooters that our coach uses. And yes, I mean that quite specifically WORD FOR WORD. However, that puts us right back to where we were before. Will the ASG pay the money to do what they say they will do AND retain Bibby? And that is what it boils down to.

Like it or not, if you go by what Sund and the ASG are saying, then the pg issue and the Josh Smith issue are financially tied together. This is where cleverness and ingenuity are needed. We’ll see if either is present in the front office sooner or later. Right now it’s looking like “later”….

If Josh Smith isn’t staying (for WHATEVER reason), and Josh Howard is offered in trade, I’m taking. Howard can score and rebound. He becomes a third person who can shoot, and has more than just mid-range capability. He’s an adequate defender. Not on Smith’s level, but I find it ironic that those who would criticize Smith’s weaknesses aren’t enamored of Howard. Odd….he’s everything some people say that Josh will never be…whatever. Like I said, if offered, I’m taking…not that it’s my decision.

Thing is, after that you have to make other moves, because that still leaves us with a two SF, one PF lineup. Remember, we haven’t signed any other bigs yet. Of course, there’s a lot of things that havent’ been done yet…

By terrell barron

July 20, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

The Hawksfan, Dont jump the gun, concerning Speedy’s health. JJ thought he was healthy last year. Remember?

By SalimFan

July 20, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

I meant the shortest distance between two points is a straight line…..anyway…

Doc, actually you shouldn’t scroll past yesterdays R&K action. I was literally on the floor laughing my arse off. LITERALLY. Even though it was getting out of hand. I figured no one else was paying attention.

But like what you said about Drmaryb. I might scroll, but not usually past a ray post. Which is why the situation was apparent to me.

I’m gonna string some of this stuff together. It’s just too good to pass up. Doc if you read it like this it’s halarious.

R&K- I apologise ahead of time for this but as i’ve stated. Just too good to pass up. Funny stuff.

Honestly, I think kirk already knew ray didn’t know the word and did that on pourpose… if so, I guess you have been adding your own “flava” this whole time.

Kirk, pardon me if I sound dumb, but I don’t know what “antedoctal” means. I really do like to think that I can keep up with the conversation, but have to admit that you lost me on that one.

ray

It’s not like you to miss the deep psychological forces behind such an obvious gaffe.Surely such a thing is nothing more than an attempt by me to have you say something to me.

Ray I only typed such a thing because I knew you wouldn’t be able to help yourself. Thanks for seizing upon the fact that I am a poor speller and that I often don’t treat a blog post as would some formal piece of writing.

And thanks for talking to me.

Again, as I’ve stated from the beginning, when the received wisdom was that a Smith signing with Philly was imminent, (and then on through when it changed to Golden State, and on then the Clippers)I cautioned against assuming that he wanted to be a Hawk.

A conservative, but prudent concept I thought. I had no idea that it would turn out to be so controversial or noteworthy.

Kirk,

Well, everybody misspells a word, but what was I going to do? Assume you misspelled or assume that it was a word that I just didn’t know? I erred on the side of ignorance….

I have to laugh at some of the stuff you say, as you surely laugh at some of what I say. What I mean is this:

To think that you could repeatedly say such things in such lightly veiled and mocking fashion without the idea ever occurring to you that you might stir up a hornet’s nest is an insult to your intelligence. In fact, that was something a few of us caught onto some time ago (and thus the change in attitude and approach from some of us). Some of us, such as myself, found it amusing, as I have done such things myself before. Others of course, did not. It’s kind of like telling a joke. No matter how many people get it and laugh, there’s always some that don’t get it or don’t think it’s funny.

“Controversial and noteworthy” my arse…you knew what you were doing from the beginning, you clown….Heh! It was a good one, too…Took me in at first.

Kirk, don’t you love the way I can use so many paragraphs to say ONE thing: You believe in the ASG…and I do not. That is the very crux and soul of our disagreements. I still think you’re subtlety is funny. It just wasn’t so easy to catch at first…especially while I was plying my own brand (yes, I sometimes get caught up in my own devious machinations).

ray

And here I was minding my own business.

Bless your heart! You sound bored tonight. Nothing like yet another “what’s wrong with Kirk” essay. You’ve taken a bit of a point here, and a bit of another there,and conjured up all sorts of indignation and pathology.

Thanks For Sharing!

By SalimFan

July 20, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Hey, doc so these games will be shown next week on NBA TV right?

By kirknga

July 20, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

McNasty My reply to him was in humor. I thought it was so over the top that there could be no doubt that it was tongue and cheek.

I was wrong.People are reading it and taking it seriously! Wow!

As I told Sautee, I play to expectations. There’s an expectation that I will take these things seriously. So perhaps any adjustments are not necessarily to be made by me?

I couldn’t help but note the irony in typing 20 paragraphs and the use of the word windbag.

If you read my comments on the Braves and Falcons Blogs you will see that I am not long winded except here where long essays and formal structure and vocabulary are the norm for some people.

I hate writing that way on a blog. It takes way too much energy and drains the fun out of it.

I don’t take this seriously, I don’t know how many times I can say this, but I guess it just will not sink in for those who don’t want to believe it.

For example, the comment by doc, I’ve got nothing to say. I don’t know the intention of what he said,it could be a joke, it could be a poke; I just know that he’s has only spoken about by me but never to me.

I roll on with a shrug.

Sautee

At some point, if you remain here… Huh?

Well,I’m not new!!! These comments about Smith aren’t my first here on the Hawks blog. Will not be my last so don’t worry about “if I remain”.There didn’t seem to be an issue with my few comments until now.

It’s not a Ray vs Kirk thing. I’m beginning to discern a pattern though. Ray comments. I respond. Others analyze and point fingers. I respond.

I defy any of you to go back and find any comments by me to ray that wasn’t instigated by ray out of the blue.

I’m here to talk about the Hawks and how we can win.All the other stuff is just b.s. folk like to instigate and comment upon.

By Sautee

July 20, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

salimfan

Boy, talk about your Dramatic Irony!

You first post an entire novel about the musings of our Kirk and Ray. Within this novel, you suggest to them that they use “For the sake of your fellow readers, as few words as possible.”

Just a touch of irony there, but you go on to REPOST much of their repartee. Have you been watching too much Letterman? Next you’ll give us a Top Ten Reasons why they are both wrong!

JK, man, the McNasty post DID make me laugh. At least the first time. ;-)

By SalimFan

July 20, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Well shoot, everybody else was writing novels so wanted to get in on the action too. Call it a case of peer pressure ;-)

Well if it’s all in fun then I have no choice but to sit back and enjoy the entertainment lol.

My post was all one big expalanation in “Excrutiaingly long detail”…..which I could have summed up in a paragrah If I wanted too.

Sautee glad you laughed. It was done in fun. At first I was bothersome. But when I went back and read the exchanges between Kirk and Ray, I couldn’t help but to ROFL!.

By ray

July 20, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Kirk, instigation? Me?? Why does every comment I make have to be out of the blue? Now how many times am I going to have to admit to this before you finally stop accusing me of it? LOL! Actually, my very first post to you was not in any way intended as such. It was an honest to goodness attempt….well, it is of no moment now and you probably don’t remember it anyway (wasn’t of noteworthy importance).

Hey…wait a minute. I just thought of a good alibi. It seems that I’m so long-winded and post so often that of course all the comments you make to me are instigated by me. Hell, you won’t talk if I don’t. Yeah, that must be it. That’s the ticket. Smothers a chuckle.

All the same, thanks for the witty reparte. It has been fun, even if people are tired of it. At least you have shown the stamina to keep it up. Besides, the lack of b-ball activity always makes the summer doldrums difficult. Nothing like a little verbal tennis (or something to that effect….perhaps bad minton in some cases) to keep things moving. Again, thanks for playing! <—- Had to borrow your style of parting comment that time…you don’t have it copyrighted, do ya?

SalimFan, your “McNasty” post was off the chain. It was on target like nobody’s business. You should do another! And the best part is that you get the joke. The idea is to trump things up and say so much more than is necessary. Of course, this kind of stuff won’t be around once the season begins…too much b-ball stuff will be up for discussion. Well, one hopes so anyway. Hopefully there will be good things to discuss. Even I don’t like a bash-fest. Not for very long.

So. When does our band of scrubbies play again…tonight mayhaps?

By kirknga

July 20, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Actually, my very first post to you was not in any way intended as such. It was an honest to goodness attempt….well, it is of no moment now and you probably don’t remember it anyway (wasn’t of noteworthy importance).

It was a lecture on the “tenor” on my comments and so forth.

Besides, the lack of b-ball activity always makes the summer doldrums difficult. Nothing like a little verbal tennis

I surmised as much, so I went with it. Like I said, I don’t take myself as seriously as people love to believe.

Oh Darn….there I go cutting and pasting again! My apologies to those who are surely offended.

Point of clarification: I am not interested in a Josh Howard trade at this time, not because cannot score and rebound,(nor is it because he would be the long awaited replacement to Mookie as toker-in-chief); it is because at this time he plays a position at which the Hawks are well stocked.

I would hope that a big would be in a deal, even the centerpiece, if that’s possible. Absent such a deal then by all mean Josh Howard would be a valuable addition, he scores, rebounds and plays defense. I would think that it would be best to move Marvin in a deal.

The Mavs this week rejected a Howard for Artest proposal this week, countering with Stackhouse and Brandon Bass.

Would they really consider Smith for Howard? I would think that Artest is a better fit as he brings the toughness the Mavs lack while there is no fall off in scoring and rebounding.

By SalimFan

July 20, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Lol, I wasn’t tired of the dialouge between you and Kirk. It’s been fairly obvious as of late that it all fun. But in previous blogs before I caught on to kirk’s type of humor, I thought otherwise.

It was a lecture on the “tenor” on my comments and so fourh.

Was that with “The Dark Karma” or with “Ray” lol??

Also ther’s nothing wrong with cutting and pasting lol. Just do you.

By SalimFan

July 20, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

It’s time for Rick to step his game up. He’s not even the biggest Rick on the block. When this guy has more cred with hawks fans, there’s a problem lol.

WILL THE REAL RICK PLEASE STAND UP!!!!!!!!

By kirknga

July 20, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Salim Fan

It was under the Dark Karma nom de plume.

I’m glad you’ve caught on. Hopefully others will follow.

By AJC Referee

July 20, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

(Blows whistle, tosses yellow hankies, and addresses the crowd). We have unexplainable arguments about how folks explain things….From now on, this will be referred to as, “Giving him the business.”

To Dark Karma Ray, McNasty Salimfan, and Kirk “Kirky” Kirknga, No More giving him the business! This is your last sideline warning. False start has also been called on Kirk for continuing to express his lack of taking himself (or the blog) seriously. (Speaking in Big Brother on CBS voice) “…Kirk…STOP THAT!!”

Peace and post politely!(LOL!)

By Rick

July 20, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Does anyone out there have Josh Smith’s cell phone #? I’ve seemed to have misplaced it.

By doc

July 20, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

check out another musical interlude for those out of tune with what is happening with the hawks.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4_MsrsKzMM

By ray

July 20, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Sorry, AJC Ref. I promise to behave….heh heh.

Kirk, I agree that Howard becomes another of a kind of player that we already have.

However, I see Howard as an upgrade to the likes of Marvin and Childress as it stands right now. Howard is the 20ppg scorer now that some people still believe Marvin can be (though I’m not seeing all of the tools necessary for that at the moment). Childress? Better as a super 6th man. So I personally see the next logical step as then moving Marvin for a serviceable big or something to that effect.

Better yet, move him along with Speedy and whatever else it takes within reason to get a shooter and a decent big.

On the idea of moving Josh Smith for a big: I have long considered Smith as having the most trade value of all our forwards (not including Horford). I have said in the past that he probably represents our best chance at landing a starting center. However, nobody seems to be giving those away these days. And because Josh is not yet a superstar, most (if not all) teams are not going to trade a guy good enough to start at center in the NBA for a guy who plays a position that you can fill adequately with so many guys, who though possibly less talented, will still get you by at that position.

Considering how you see Josh’s value (and I’m still not clear on exactly what that is)…what would you expect to get for him in the way of a big/center? More specifically, who would you advocate Sund pursuing?

By ray

July 21, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

SalimFan, it all started when I posted a response to one (or rather several) of Kirk’s famous cut and paste true/false declarations. I basically sought to be rather neutral, and tried to explain to him why he was catching so much heat from other posters. He took offense, seeing it as lecture and accusation. Ah yes, first impressions are a mother…and believe me…that coin has two sides.

Anyway…

By kirknga

July 21, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

AJC Referee Sorry but I’m playing this one under protest!

ray, yes I agree Howard would be a big upgrade over Marvin, no doubt. I see the tools, but I don’t see the assertiveness on Marvin’s behalf. Like Smith, he is still new enough to say give him time.

Which leads me into the answer to your question about Smith. I have always said the guy is athletic and exciting for those who value dunking and jumping and such. From that standpoint he is valuable, moreso at the 3 than 4.

I could be wrong, but nowadays in the NBA, what players are 2-3 years in seems to be well, what they are going to be. Yes I understand the summer workouts, I don’t discount the fact that we have players willing to work to improve. That is a good thing.

However, I don’t see the pieces improving on a large enough scale so that organic growth alone is sufficient to become and remain a playoff team in the East.

(I don’t discount the East as much as others. Since Shaq left L.A. who has won anything besides San Antonio who plays a more physical “Eastern” style of ball? Meanwhile we’ve had 3 different teams from the so called weaker conference take the championship)

As someone previously put it, the Hawks rosters is “whacked’, meaning that there is talent put mismatched. Traditionally basketball teams are put together starting with the 1 and the 5. I understand that things have changed because of the Jordan era, but the concept still remains a solid one.

(We don’t know if Paul or Williams would have developed into the players they are now under Woodson, but we saw how the lack of PG talent hurt this team’s development)

The Hawks lack that 5. They have talent everywhere else. Horford is not Ben Wallace(of the Pistons), he needs to be at the 4. The Hawks also need a shooter or two as has been covered by many others. I believe Woodson was near negligent in his misuse of Salim.

I don’t know what big Smith could bring us. Perhaps a multiteam multiplayer trade?There really aren’t any big men that immediately leap to mind. This is one reason why I defended the Bucks decision to reup Bogut.

So that is how I see Smith’s value as a Hawk, or as an asset to fill a need. Either way works for me so long as the team improves.

By ray

July 21, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

Yeah I saw the Lakers rejected a trade for Artest. But is that about the position he plays, or is it about other things? Sure he brings toughness and what not. But he brings other things as well. It’s funny. Nobody seems to be jumping up and down to get him. I wonder why (not really).

I don’t know if the Mavs consider Smoove at all. But he’s got less baggage than Artest does, probably won’t cost as much, is younger, and provides plenty of athleticisim and defensive capability. He’s proven he can score in this league just fine. Think on this: he wouldn’t be handling the ball nearly as much with guys like Jason Kidd running the show. All he’d have to do is catch the ball and finish…

In the end, I don’t know that Dallas would let a 20ppg capable guy go…even if it was for a younger, bigger, and emminently more versatile defender who is less than 3 points per game away from being a 20ppg scorer himself. Remains to be seen.

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 21, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this

Haha love the reference to giving him the business…

By brent a.

July 21, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this

A couple of things here:

1) The Kings are trying to include Kenny Thomas and his 2-year/$16+ million contract in any deal with Artest. Don’t kid yourselves and think that the Lakers “do not want” Artest. They absolutely do, they just aren’t certain that they want to both A) give up Lamar Odom, and B) take back a bit-player with a huge contract in Kenny Thomas. Despite Mitch Kupchak’s purported ineptness, he actually has been very good at not taking on a bad contract in trade since he acquired Brian Grant’s ugly deal in the Shaq trade in 2004. Since then, he has been very successful at dumping bad contracts (Brian Cook, Kwame Brown), as opposed to acquiring them.

2) I’m curious as to how many of you actually have watched Kwame Brown play. This talk about a “right system” for Kwame is a bit mind-boggling. The right offensive system for Kwame, quite frankly, is one in which he can be hidden. Look, Kwame seems to be a pretty good guy, but the perfect system for him was in LA, with the Lakers. Phil Jackson & Co. worked with Kwame, and completely broke his game down and rebuilt him offensively during the 2005-6 season. After Chris Mihm sprained his ankle, Kwame was borderline “great” from March 2006 until December 31, 2006, when he sprained his own ankle in a game against the Philadelphia 76ers.
The injury took forever to heal, and Kwame never had his confidence upon his return. He had one good play-off game (Game 3) against PHX in ‘07, and that was it.

He struggled in ‘07-‘08, fought injuries still, and was embarrassed on National TV in a game against the Suns, in which he continually dropped the ball. He was traded the next week.

But here’s the deal, the ball-dropping by Kwame was not just isolated to one night. Kwame, while a great athlete with a lot of ability, has terrible hands. He broke a finger in a fight, and uses that as an excuse for why he can’t catch the ball. But, now it’s in his head, and I’m not sure how getting traded to Memphis where he sat on the bench, combined with signing with the Hawks, is going to help improve that.

Kwame can only score at the rim. That’s it. And even then, he doesn’t go up strong, because of his mental weakness, he also regularly misses lay-ups.

But, what he can do (when healthy) is lock down a top PF (Duncan, Garnett, you name it).

But, he becomes such a liability offensively, that it is often not worth it to keep him on the court.

By ray

July 21, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this

Kirk, yeah organic growth hasn’t worked as well as we’ve needed it to. I figure that could be attributed to different things, but two bigger than most: the guy coaching and the guys drafted. Drafting leaders (like Chris Paul) is one way to help it along. We didn’t get that until Horford and Law. And we have yet to see just how good of a leader either player can be, particularly Law.

Want to hear a slightly circular argument? Horford is indeed not Ben Wallace, but Ben Wallace could not effectively be Ben Wallace without Rasheed Wallace, and since Josh Smith is no Rasheed Wallace…well, the circle is now complete, LOL! That’s where I tend to base my theory of a two-PF, one SF setup being acceptable in place of the more traditional setup of center, power forward, and small forward.

I kind of agree/disagee about the tools Marvin has. Assertiveness is definitely missing, but footwork and the combination of ball-handling and body control going to the basket seems to be….lacking. That, and range on the jumpshot. Yeah, it’s still early. But with a sweet stroke like he has, I don’t see why he can’t be making more longer-range attempts. Josh doesn’t seem to mind…and his jumper is decidedly less developed. Yeah, I know….assertiveness…

I’m cool with a multi-team, multi-player trade. Long as we don’t get duped, and we end up the better for it in the end.

Re-upping Bogut was a no-brainer (price is debatable…but what isn’t). You have a legit starting NBA 5? You keep him…unless you’ve got another one who’s just as good or better…and an adequate back-up.

I wonder when Sund and crew will make a move. A multi-team player trade may be the best case scenario. They do take a while to develop often times. Oh well, just one more thing to wait for. I’d be getting along with it though…now that the market has failed to set the price for our RFAs.

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 21, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this

Brent’s assessment of Kwame Brown’s game is on point.

By ray

July 21, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

I’d love to have a better center/post player than Kwame Brown. Name me one who we are actively targeting or that we’ve worked out. Better yet, tell me how we’re going to get him. I’ll wait…since that’s all we seem to be doing right now anyway.

In the meantime, I didn’t think Brown was prized around here for his offense, anyway. What is needed at the very least is another big who can solidly share the load on defense for about 20 minutes a night or so. Unless of course, you’d rather continue leaving that to Zaza and Solo. Yeah….

By cp

July 21, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this

I just found this story about Childress. I dont know how true it is. I dont know how to link stories, my links never show up for some reason. I will just copy and paste it. Once again I dont know if this is true or not but hey take it for what its worth.

LAS VEGAS – In a potentially stunning move that reflects the growing challenge Europe’s basketball leagues pose to the NBA, Atlanta Hawks free-agent forward Josh Childress is strongly considering a three-year, $20 million offer from Greek powerhouse Olympiakos, several league sources said Sunday night.

Childress flew to Greece late Sunday and is scheduled to meet with Olympiakos officials on Monday. Childress, 25, is so flustered with the Hawks’ refusal to make a sign-and-trade deal to another team, one source familiar with his thinking believes there’s “better than a 50-50 chance” he’ll sign with Olympiakos.

“Unless he just gets there and doesn’t like it at all, I think he’s going to go,” one league source said.

Childress is a restricted free agent, but the Hawks would have no matching rights with a FIBA contract. Olympiakos’ offer also would allow Childress the opportunity to return to the NBA over the next two summers. The Hawks would maintain his restricted free-agent rights provided they make him a qualifying offer.

Childress’ talks with the Hawks have yet to gain traction because Atlanta officials have made it clear their first priority is to resolve negotiations with forward Josh Smith, their other restricted free agent. Privately, Childress has expressed little enthusiasm in returning to play for the organization, sources said.

The Memphis Grizzlies are the only remaining team with enough salary-cap room to make an offer exceeding the $5.6 million mid-level exception, and they so far seem content on saving their money for next summer. Several NBA GMs interested in Childress said they wouldn’t make a mid-level offer to him because they believe the Hawks would match.

Childress’ agent, Lon Babby, has instead looked to Europe to create leverage for his client, a unique approach that would have seemed unlikely as recently as three years ago. The U.S. dollar’s declining value compared to the Euro, coupled with the influx of money from Russian owners into the Euroleague, has now made Europe a much more attractive option for players.

Already this summer, the San Antonio Spurs’ 2007 first-round draft pick, Tiago Splitter, rejected an offer to join the NBA franchise because he can make more money by remaining in Spain. Toronto Raptors free agent Carlos Delfino signed a three-year, $13.5 million deal with Khimiki of Moscow. Juan Carlos Navarro of the Grizzlies returned to Spain for a reported five-year contract with FC Barcelona that could pay more than $20 million.

Even so, Childress, who averaged 11.8 points and 4.9 rebounds per game last season, would send far greater waves through the NBA should he leave for the Euroleague. He would be the kind of coveted, young American talent who hadn’t previously left the NBA for Europe. Childress, 6-foot-8, played his college ball at Stanford, and is believed to have the international curiosity and maturity it might take to leave the NBA behind for a year.

If Childress joins Olympiakos then chooses to return to the NBA in either of the next two summers, he’ll likely be entering a more lucrative free-agent market than the current one.

Adrian Wojnarowski is the NBA columnist for Yahoo! Sports. Send Adrian a question or comment for potential use in

By OOhh Snap

July 21, 2008 2:09 AM | Link to this

Now Chillz has REAL Agent. Thats what you call Creative Pressure. It seems as the team was going to string along Josh n Josh till Nov 1 then give em a min deal. They would have to then prove their value once again doing the season. Just 1 thing going against this deal though. The FA of 2009 2010 is going be off the chain. Where is SEKOU??? Can we get the SCOOPP??

By ray

July 21, 2008 2:44 AM | Link to this

Damn. Now what.

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 21, 2008 3:33 AM | Link to this

Ray, do you really think Kwame is better than Zaza? You know I’m saying this as one of Zaza’s biggest critics. Seriously I would rather have Jackie Butler, who if I’m not mistaken is unemployed. I’d honestly rather give Randolph Morris or Rod Benson a shot… they are unknown quantities, while Kwame is a known, sucky quantity. I just don’t see the point in paying a guy $3 million to come here when he is worse than what we currently have. I don’t even see him really playing defense all that well when I watch him play.

Damn, this Childress news pretty much completely sucks… props to his agent, he should be getting some new clients soon. Not sure how Childress’ game will translate to Euroleague though. Don’t you have to be able to drive and dish and/or make shots to play there? I like Chills’ game but when the guy puts his head down going to the hoop, it’s usually not coming back out… and we all know what his shooting form looks like…. Either way looks like while the Clippers and Warriors and Sixers let the D.A.S.G. off the hook freakin’ Olympiakos is the one putting the pressure on, of all people. Time for them to step up and show us some good CRAP. (Did I use that right? I’m still not completely sure)

By mred1943

July 21, 2008 3:43 AM | Link to this

TO all you BK haters i see the nets are trying to give away pg marcus williams who is #4 on the depth chart do you still think the hawks should have drafted him

By stevo

July 21, 2008 5:05 AM | Link to this

i don’t know how we could enforce it or whatever, but i would bet anything on top of anything that there is no way in hell childress is not playing somewhere in the nba this season.

people just need things to write about, and all these euros or other foreign players and/or fringe nba players have nothing to do with a case such as childress.

there is no way childress plays for 3 years $20 million in greece instead of 3 years $16.8 in the nba (mid level exception).

this is an agent trying to get press and a writer needing to fill a column.

i really think all you people who buy into this idea are crazy.

By stevo

July 21, 2008 5:13 AM | Link to this

everybody should just relax about childress and smith. it is just like franchised players in the nfl, they b*** and moan because they are not really ‘free’, and they say they hate the organization and they will never play, and their agent makes all kinds of threats, and then they end up signing at some point or another.

the agent says he is upset because no teams will sign his client because they are afraid the hawks will match. well, no SH#T. that is the system.

and this goes back to all of you complaining this whole time. have any of you ever negotiated anything, ever? unless you are ready to go up and give smith the max or overpay childress, then it is all about the waiting game. smith says he is waiting for the first substantial offer from the hawks. well, he can wait all summer as far as i am concerned.

rightly, the hawks are making him come with the first offer. i am sure they are standing on the last offer they made last summer. if they were to just keep coming at smith with offers, that is what is called negotiating against themselves.

for the reasonable people out there, you understand this is a game and there are tactics on both sides and both sides have an agenda. just understand it and it will all work out in the end.

but i know it is so hard for so many of you who can barely eat or sleep with this ‘uncertainty’ hanging over your heads. i go back to a previous suggestion from another post of getting a hobby.

both childress and smith will either be in a hawk uniform this coming season, or the hawks will have made some kind of deal that they believe makes them a better team. the hawks have the leverage, and they would be foolish to give that up. i understand why the player and the agent and the mothers of the player and agent and such don’t want to hear this, but i cannot understand why it is so hard for all of you…..

By Lifelong Hawks Fan

July 21, 2008 6:05 AM | Link to this

stevo, I believe the main issue people have here is that the Hawks on the outside don’t appear to actually be doing anything in the way of making this team better. It seems to be all talk.

By morris

July 21, 2008 7:58 AM | Link to this

Both Josh’s want the hell out of Atlanta. They don’t want to play for woody or this sorry ownership group. Gearon is a freakin idiot! Hawk’s fans better pray that Belkin wins the court case and brings in a cash cow partner. That is the only way this thing will work out in our favor. Otherwise we are about to become the old clipper franchise!

By morris

July 21, 2008 8:07 AM | Link to this

I guess stevo missed the news about childress flying to greece last night! He has a 3yr 20 million dollar deal on the table that is tax free. Not to mention the euro is much stronger than the dollar these days. I would say this deal is the equivalent of about 12 million per season over here in the United states.

By doc

July 21, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this

stevo most of us eat fine especially at half time as we throw back a brw and gulp a pretzel talking about the hawks whether they are ahead or behind.

stevo, you read cp’s post above. funny how you derided it just last week as manny t and i brought it up as a legitimate concern as a fan and certainly should be one of the owners. dont know if it will come to pass but right now it is about the money as it always is and with best offer the one that will win out in the end. the economy lesson for all of us is that of ASTRO JOE ….. FOLLOW THE MONEY whether it be in greece or us. simple concept and it is probably why you are where you are wanting to find some chinese individual to argue with instead of here a home. yep, they as you did are exploring all options for making money, just as i said they would, even if it means going overseas. ultimately, if it isnt there then they come back and decide qualifying offer and insurance and play their game or get a reasonable offer they and the hawks can be happy with and continue on as members of the team.

i just dont think it is best for the team to have two players on qualifying offer. do you or does anyone? what ultimately becomes of the team in such a situation? that is my boy rick’s question and the owners question and a big gamble. it is also the drama of the hawks as we watch expectantly.

cp, thanks for posting the relevant article. it kind of helps to educate us all crazy or not.

By doc

July 21, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

manny t, i hope you enjoy the article above as much as i did whether chills goes or not. the money not fame is the issue, add a few perks and he is gone to live the good life, mediterranean climate, good healthy food and hot women. only care is whether his lot was over a volcano or fault. coming from california he is used to that. 6.5 mil to play 40 or so games or to take less to play 82 games ….. hmmmm. he’d be crazy not to, but to each his own.

By APS alum 06

July 21, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Sekou- it’s 8:37 AM and i’ve read an article NOT on this site about Josh Childress wanting to go to a Euroleague team and really has no intentions to sign with the Hawks. Why isn’t there an article on ajc.com from you about this?

By KevinM

July 21, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

This is an interesting twist to RFA isn’t it Sekou? No one has mentioned that this is a possibility, yet the value of the US dollar is down so low, you gotta consider this. Chills has been getting no feedback apparently from this ownership group because of the Smoove scenario. Well, guess what? It doesn’t sound like Chills is very thrilled about returning either. Kudos to Chills and his agent calling the bluff of this group who said that they were the priority this offseason, yet all we have to offer is Woody returning and Kwame Brown being considered for a roster slot. When this headline hits the AJC, the basketball fans in this town are going to be outraged at the ASG for allowing such a consideration. Don’t think that Smoove perhaps could do the same thing. It doesn’t bother me at all to see the pressure applied to the ASG.
To the fans of Atlanta, if you consider going down this weekend to select season ticket packages, you are doing this town an injustice. You should reconsider until the Stagnate group starts making some positive decisions with this organization.

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