Hawks

By kwooden1

July 9, 2008 7:45 AM | Link to this

Sekou, should the HAWKS just offer JS and Chills extensions or continue waiting for other teams to make them offers? It seems to me that they can calculate the best offers from the remaining teams in play and offer an extension that would be better?

GO HAWKS!!

By Joe

July 9, 2008 7:52 AM | Link to this

Perfect scenario for the Hawks, no doubt about it.

Even the bumbling Atlanta Spirit cannot screw this up, right?

I have adamantly supported a sign-and-trade for Josh Smith since before last season. However, that was based on the belief that someone would come in and offer him max money and that the Hawks would match.

If we can resign Smith for his legitimate worth, not some inflated price, it is well worth keeping him.

Now, if we could just force Speedy Claxton into retirement and get all that money back that he has stolen, we could play in the free agency waters.

By roan st

July 9, 2008 7:55 AM | Link to this

The clippers are still in play as a possibility for Smith to get a lucrative deal. However, if the clippers decide to go in a different direction then the hawks will have smith by the balls. No other teams will have the cap space to compete for his services. Just hope that the clippers don’t make a big offer and smith will be a hawk for sure.

By Samuel

July 9, 2008 8:00 AM | Link to this

**The Geedaz, That Paper, Them Dead Presidents, That Mean, Awh Mean, Mean Green.

Cuz,

People here still want to minamize how exciting that Boston series was. Not Me. Eventhough we lost, it still was the most important step this franchise has made in a decade. You can’t discount that.

I say again, we really do need to sign anybody else for me to be excited about this upcomming season. I will gladly take a Chris Wilcox or Theo Ratliff or even a Roney Turiaf but just give me a healthy Bibby for the entire season and our guys back and we can do some thangs.

If we lose Childress, it will be a blow but we can survive, we lose Smith and we go backwards, no matter who we might bring in to replace him(nobody out there).

What Smith brings is not only the obvious but other things not seen in the stat sheets like the intemadation factor. Right now he’s number one in the league on that tip.

Rick, You Tha Man.

By DAP01

July 9, 2008 8:00 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

Do you think that assuming we sign the Josh’s that we will actually improve the team by signing a shooter (Jarvis) AND a big? That payroll would be 70+ million. Or do we trade someone?

By Sekou K. Smith

July 9, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

Yes, DAP01, I think this team improves dramatically with another shooter and another quality big added to the mix. The nucleus was already coming together with Bibby in the mix. Toss in a hungry Acie Law IV and the settled situation on the coaching staff and in the front office and things should improve on that alone.

Teams always have to add talent and tweak things to get better. And despite all the splashy moves that can be made in the offseason, a team that continues to grow and get better with its core unit tends to have a better chance of making the step from where the Hawks were last year to where they want to go in the future.

The big gambles, like what Boston did last summer, don’t always pan out (just ask the Bulls how that Ben Wallace signing went. They tried to speed up the process with a big money signing and you see where it landed them. Before that, they had gone with the grow from within approach and it worked fine).

By Reggie

July 9, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

Sekou

Is there still a chance Josh Smith signs with the Clippers, I dont want that to happen. Also What free agents do you see the hawks going after. According to Sportingnews they were interested in Mickael Pietrus is that true.

By Sekou K. Smith

July 9, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Pietrus is a name I know the Hawks had on their radar but he is gone Reggie. The Magic locked him up yesterday. Smith could still sign an offer sheet with the Clippers but the Hawks insist they are going to match. They’ve already scared off the Sixers (with a whole lotta help from Elton Brand). I can’t see them worrying too much about the Clippers.

By JohnGTFan

July 9, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

The Clippers are going to offer JS a contract between 10 - 11 mil a year…but I dont think anything above that. That should be a no-brainer for the Hawks to match. Childress I think will be tougher than people think…some teams will offer him more than the mid-level exception…and if a team that is always in the hunt (S.A., Detroit, Boston, Lakers, Utah, etc) offers him the midlevel, I wonder if he would take it to make sure he goes to a proven winner. I guess we’ll all find out soon.

Sekou what are the chances the Hawks can actually land a shooter and a big, that can actually help, if both Joshes are retained?

By doc

July 9, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

well granny might have heard a bullet whiz by her head, no? it also means the bar just got higher. standing still or moving ahead? yup, samuel said it well she goes backwards if josh does fall into someone else’s hands.

sautee which leg are we on? tme moes so slowly in the summer, glad we got someone on the ball like sekou to pull out blog z occasionally to stir up the hornets nest that isnt stirred up already. heh heh

again critical figure is not who gets what is how much are we rady to spend to rise up the ladder.

just wonder how it feels to be a labron and cav fan about now?

By Greg

July 9, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

Use Mike Bibby contract and Marvin Williams as trade bait to get a better low post rebound and Defensive threat we will not win next year with the same team intact. The Sixers, Bucks, Raps, all got better by adding pieces even the title contenders are looking to add key pieces to get better. We CAN”T win with the same team.

By Realist

July 9, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

Sekou, how’s your boy Brian Dyke taking this news? I know you guys are tight, since all of your previous columns have been campaigns on behalf of Dyke and Josh Smith. Now that Philly has signed Brand, it sounds like you have completely changed your tune from “The Hawks will REGRET not locking up Smith last year” to “It should be a mere formality.” What a quick turnaround you’ve done on this. Hope Dyke doesn’t freeze you out from future stories for turning on him like this.

By KB

July 9, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

Mr. Smith,

Does the Hawks really need J. Chills? He has not developed into the starting forward the Hawks thought they were getting in the draft. I personally wished back then that the Hawks would have picked up L. Deng. You can find people like J. Chills anywhere in the college game who can defend and run the break. Mr. Smith, tell me that the Hawks are not foolish enough to give J. Chills and max contract being he is just a bench player?

By Chris

July 9, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Sekou

What other players could be on the hawks radar, once they are done with the Joshes. We can’t stand pact and watch other teams like the sixers,heat, and bucks make moves to get better.

By Melvin

July 9, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Saved by the CBA. This ownership group can sit back and act like they were geniuses by not offerring the Joshes a contract or however they are going to spin it. But we are savvy fans and know that it was the CBA which deter other teams from pursuing both Joshes. No one was scared of the BASG threat to match contracts. Had it not been for Elton Brand Philly would have call their bluff… I think both Joshes will sign 3 yr contracts ext and if the BASG group are still the owners when their contract expires both guys will fly the coup….

By Daniel

July 9, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

All I really see us doing is bring back the Joshes. Then hopefully during the first part of the year, we’ll see Acie ready to lead this team. Which will allow us to move Bibby and his big expiring contract. Maybe not for a Gasol like LA did but it’s obvious that it is a big chip that can be played at the trade deadline.

By ken Strickland

July 9, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

The Clippers have to deal with the same issues Philly had to deal with in deciding to go after Smoove.

(1)He’s a RFA.

(2)The Hawks will match any offer made.

(3)The only way they can get him from the Hawks is with a sign and trade.

(4)What do they have, and are willing to give up, to complete a sign and trade for him.

(5)The Clippers are notoriously frugal(cheap).

They’ve lost Brand($15,34M) and his contract, but picked up BDavis and his contract, a financial wash. They are also likely to lose CMaggette($7M)as well. If they offered Smoove a large frontloaded contract, and the Hawks matched, they would have to do a sign and trade to acquire him. Outside of CKaman($8.6M), who they can’t afford to lose, CMobley($8.35M), maybe too costly for a bench player, or SLivingston(($4.4M), coming off serious career threatening injury, what do they have or can afford to give up that the Hawks would want or would satisfy the salary requirements for a sign and trade. Of course, TThomas($5.6M)would be a valuable addition.

By Mychelfromatl

July 9, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Whewww!!! that was a close one. Now we can finally resign the Joshes back…then I proceed to purchase my season tickets…

LETS GO HAWKS!!

By Stinger

July 9, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Sekou, While I am comforted by your comment that resigning the Joshes is academic I would like a little elaboration.

Doesn’t Golden State have cap space to sign either or both at a price above $10MM even with the Maggette signing and after signing their own RFA’s (Ellis & Biedrins)?

Same question regarding the Clips?

Lastly, the Grizzles are Siberia from a players standpoint but don’t they have cap room to sign either at prices above $10MM?

Please comment

By ATLien via DC

July 9, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Hello all. I’m not hatin because I would to see the Hawks do well, even though i am a Wizards fan. But if the Hawks are smart they would keep J-Smooth and let J Childress go. They can get someone via free agency.

By danga

July 9, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

the hawks should trade bibby for marcus camby and marvin williams zaza and a 1st round pick for ron artest.they also need to find a real good 3 point shooter in free agency 2 space the floor.this roster could make them the 4th best team in the east.

By CAM

July 9, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

I have been seriously worried about the possibility of the Hawks losing the Josh’s but thank Brand for perhaps saving the day. I hope that Sund is good enough to find a way to make them both happy but, stress the importance of having them for a reasonalbe price in order to pursue other possible players to help the team. We have to find a way to add some other players a veteran big and a shooter. We don’t really have many trade assests outside of draft picks and Marvin. I don’t see Bibby going anywehere before the start of the season, just to give Acie a chance to prove he can run this team. I also looked at the summer league roster Speedy Claxton really. The guy is a thief he has been stealing money from the hawks for two years and can’t wait until he is gone.

By MannyT

July 9, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

From prior blog - ray That Adande article on ESPN is exactly what the ASG has to fear. He made a good point that Sterling is not as cheap as he used to be. However, the perception follows him like skunk stench. Here is a defense of the Clippers owner.

The Hawks have had trouble in the past getting free agents to come here. You will know one of those perceptions has been put to rest when we can get a decent free agent.

Brand going to Sixers probably lowers the price on Josh, but we are not a better or more stable team until a contract is actually done. The ASG needs to get rid of their skunky smell too. Until the Belkin thing is resolved, getting players to stay/come here is the only can of air freshener they can provide in the offseason.

Smith is in LA on business. Absolutely. He is in the sports business, just like the Clippers.

sniff, sniff I love the smell of free agency in the morning. In some places it smells like good CRAP; in others stinky, smelly PAIN.

By cameron

July 9, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

what the hawks should do is let josh smith go and go and get james posey and emeka okafor that would be awesome the line up would be al horford at center, emeka okafor at power forward, james posey at small forward, joe johnson at shooting gaurd, and mike bibby at point gaurd that would be an awesome lineup

By Sekou K. Smith

July 9, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

I haven’t changed my stance Realist. The reason the Hawks needed to take care of Josh and Josh last year is because if they wanted the chance to chase the best players this summer they’d be capable of doing so with those two guys already locked up. Instead, the cap holds for both of those guys prevent the Hawks from offering any other free agents contracts until they get the Joshes squared away. That means they wait for this thing to play out while all the best free agents get snapped up elsewhere.

So again, my tune hasn’t changed. I’ve always maintained that it’s best for the Hawks or any team to be proactive and not reactive when dealing with your own free agents, even the restricted ones.

Handle your own business on the front end so you can tend to the rest now. And right now the Hawks are still waiting to react.

By Ben

July 9, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Sekou, why don’t you tell this to the ASG?

Do they even care?

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

GS and LA will make an offer to one of the Joshes. Bank on it. And Ronny Turiaf has signed an offer sheet with the Warriors.

By Pete

July 9, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

The Hawks are receiving tons of blessings……They just need to get things rolling.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

Baron got his money, but at what cost? Brand left, so the Clippers are still the Clippers. lol!! They need a PF in the worst way. And the best PF available resides in the ATL. This is sorta nerve recking.

By darrell starks

July 9, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

SEKOU YOU RIGHT I THINK THE OWNER ARE BROKE i hope TED TURNER buy the HAWKS BACK.and the same with the BRAVES i hope that ARTHUR BLANKS BUY THE braves to until we get owner that cares ABOUT sports TEAM in this city both BRAVES AND HAWKS WILL DECLINE LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

By Ryder

July 9, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

I’m not exactly so certain that this issue with the Joshes are over with. Remember that the Spurs have a lot of cap room available and could really ante up to get a Josh Childress type player now that they’ve lost out on the Maggette sweepstakes. They need to get younger and who wouldn’t want to play on a team that is a guaranteed lock to be in the playoffs year after year?

As for Josh Smith, whether we want to believe it or not, it’s a HUGE difference playing in LA as opposed to Atlanta. Sterling will be anxious to get someone to play alongside his new toy Baron Davis, and Smith could be that kind of guy.

Also, keeping in mind Smith’s issues with Woodson, who’s to say he won’t pull a Lamar Odom and demand that Atlanta not match whatever the Clippers offer?

If Atlanta does have to do a sign-and-trade, they could get Chris Kaman in the deal and move Al Horford to the PF spot, so that might work out even better.

That being said, all Hawks fans should not be too happy about the way the ASG is going about this. It sends a bad message to the rest of the players who will be up in a year or so.

Sekou any word on other potential free agents like Kwame Brown?

By STRETCH

July 9, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Hey CAMERON…sounds like a GREAT idea! Ive been saying all along that Posey needs to come here. The guy has a winning attitude and knows how to win. He’s only won 2 championships since 2005.

Did anyone else see the look on his face after they won the championship, when the GM for the Celtics said, “im so happy that we were able to bring the BIG 3 together”.

I hope i wasnt the only person that noticed, but he was probably the glue that held the team together when RAY ALLEN went AWOL during the finals.

But anyway, the Hawks management needs to get a real purpose and sign these guys or atleast one of them and get some veteran help (whether its a big or small) in here and stop fooling around!

By jdewayneatl

July 9, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

As a true fan of the Hawks (a fan who watched even during the really bad years and throughout this rebuilding process), I think that the Hawks as a contending power is actually on the horizon.

Although this summer has made me and many others very nervous that as the Hawks finally gave us something to watch and cheer for, it could abruptly come to a crashing end if the guys that started the process were no longer in a Hawks uni. But all this drama is actually a great thing for this hometown franchise.

Think about it. This past season was the last season for a 4 part stage of rebuilding. It was one that the Hawks finally made a major move to bring in a star player and were finally able to make the playoffs, which built so much buzz for the city. This offseason is the first season that the Hawks were not major players in the draft which unfortunately had become the Hawks bread and butter for bringing excitement around the team (but year after year of being in the lottery could became a little embarrassing). This summer is a summer of free agency for the Hawks which is where a team wants to doing during the summer rather than building promise on potential talent.

The Hawks are now a team looking to fill roster spots that would make the team solid contenders.

By CRobinson

July 9, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

Any chance Baron Davis changes his mind?

By Scott

July 9, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

I know that no one is talking about this, but would it not make sense for the Hawks to go after Emeka Okefor and put a defensive minded center who can provide some points and allow Horford to move to the SF. I understand we may lose Josh Smith, but the dynamic makes more sense for the team.

By Scott

July 9, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

I know that no one is talking about this, but would it not make sense for the Hawks to go after Emeka Okefor and put a defensive minded center who can provide some points and allow Horford to move to the SF. I understand we may lose Josh Smith, but the dynamic makes more sense for the team.

By MannyT

July 9, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Sekou I understand why it’s better to secure your own desirable players quickly, but I think the cap holds could actually work in our favor as far as getting a free agent.

Right now the Joshes cap holds are about $8mil which is far less than it will cost to sign both of them regardless of the team(s) that close the deals. So we look like we are in better cap position than we actually are. If we did a Philly style salary dump, we would probably have a slot bigger than the mid level exception (MLE) available. However that only works before you sign your RFA and poof goes the cap space. If Philly signed Iggy first, there would have been no shot at Brand, Smith or anyone that commands more than MLE money.

Ryder The Spurs do not have real cap space, but they do have what all team have, the MLE.

If your team salary is under $50 mil, you are probably under the cap IF you have 12 or more players on your roster. With less than 13 signed players, you get minimum salary assigned to your cap for all those empty seats.

This does not factor in the summer trade season that Sekou mentioned in the blog heading article.

The money now teams are the Warriors, Clippers, Bobcats, & Grizzlies. The 76ers and Wizards are in that mix, but only until they actually sign Brand & Arenas.

Good cash CRAP for 6 of 30 teams. The other 24 need to be creative.

By Cedric

July 9, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

That has always been the ASG way of dealing with their players, wait and react, instead of being proactive. I just don’t understand. Both of the Joshes are probably wondering the same thing. Hopefully everything works itself out and we get a hungry big like the Rockets got with Landry last year. Just watch some of these young cats in the summer leagues and some of them have some talent we can use. Nichols, Simmons and whoever the Jazz pickup and bring in always seems like he has what it takes to make it in the League. I guess we just have to wait to see what takes place.

By Roger

July 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Sekou

What free agents do you see the hawks going after once they are done with the joshes?

By M Ryan

July 9, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

I can see the big deal about J Smith but Childress? No wonder the Hawks sink. If Childress gets you all excited than it is easy to appease you & the organization.

By AtlSouthside

July 9, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

God is good

By Ward

July 9, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

Why would we go for Posey? Where would he fit in with Horford at PF and Josh Smith (if he re-signs) at SF? I’m sure Posey thinks he is ready for some starting time.

Smitty, If we do end up signing both Smith and Childress, will we have much money left over to make a decent run in the free agency? I agree that we need some scoring help in the back-court. JJ and Bibby can’t take the whole load themselves. One more scoring-orientated guard would be great. And then maybe a big man to add depth there. What do you think, and who might be possible targets? Or will our line up be pretty much set with the return of those two players?

By the way, I voted for you for the successor for Billy Knight.

By Ward

July 9, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Why would we go for Posey? Where would he fit in with Horford at PF and Josh Smith (if he re-signs) at SF? I’m sure Posey thinks he is ready for some starting time.

Smitty, If we do end up signing both Smith and Childress (and depending on how Bibby does next season, we might need to throw money to keep him), will we have much money left over to make a decent run in the free agency? I agree that we need some scoring help in the back-court. JJ and Bibby can’t take the whole load themselves. One more scoring-orientated guard would be great. And then maybe a big man to add depth there. What do you think, and who might be possible targets? Or will our line up be pretty much set with the return of those two players?

By the way, I voted for you for the successor for Billy Knight.

By Ward

July 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Why would we go for Posey? Where would he fit in with Horford at PF and Josh Smith (if he re-signs) at SF? I’m sure Posey thinks he is ready for some starting time.

Smitty, If we do end up signing both Smith and Childress (and depending on how Bibby does next season, we might need to throw money to keep him), will we have much money left over to make a decent run in the free agency? I agree that we need some scoring help in the back-court. JJ and Bibby can’t take the whole load themselves. One more scoring-orientated guard would be great. And then maybe a big man to add depth there. What do you think, and who might be possible targets? Or will our line up be pretty much set with the return of those two players?

By the way, I voted for you for the successor for Billy Knight.

By bigeasy830

July 9, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

I believe Philly made a mistake. The Hawks would not have matched on Smith. I give Sund credit, he has a great poker face. It is not over yet, I believe that Golden State and the Clips will make a run at J-Smoove. It is scary to think of what J-Smoove can do in Nelly’s run and gun offense. Wooo…. Elton Brand is a great player, but, that injury would have scared me if i was Philly, will he hold up for the duration of that garunteed NBA contract. Now thats something too think about. J-Smoove will hit a lick. The money that GS and LA was throwing at Brand they will now throw it at Smoove and no way the Hawks can or will match.

By Ryder

July 9, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Thanks for clarifying that MannyT. Even so, I’m not too excited that the Hawks haven’t been the least bit proactive after hearing the news that Brand is going to Philly.

Ward Bibby is gone after this season IMO. He’s going to be making $15 mil, and they need to move into the Acie Law era at PG, barring a catastrophe (with Woodson that’s always possible). They will probably look to move MB either at the deadline or next summer.

Remember that JJ will also be a free agent in a couple of years, not to mention that Marvin is a restricted FA after this season, so keeping Bibby would hurt the bottom line.

Atlanta had a scoring-oriented guard whose name escapes me (oh yeah Salim) but they are going to let him go. I think if they sign Brown at the MLE then they would be set in case they let Zaza move on.

Of course all of this goes out the window should Belkin get the team next February.

By Realist

July 9, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Sekou, your point is well taken on being proactive vs. reactive, in general. On the other hand, if the Hawks had dished out big money to both Joshes before the season, I don’t see how they would have the money to be a player in FA now. Who are the players out there that they are missing out on that they could have pursued if they had locked up Smith and Childress? Maggette? Brand? Davis? None of these guys would fit a roster with Bibby, Johnson and the two Joshes locked up… nor would they be affordable.

Instead of crying about having to wait and see, the Hawks should be aggressively pursuing sign-and-trade deals to maximize the value of the players and the leverage they have because they are RFAs. Look what Phoenix did to the Hawks with Joe Johnson. They practically hit the lottery, forcing Atlanta to pay up with players AND draft picks.

At the end of all this, the Hawks might wind up keeping one or both Joshes at the same price (or less) than they might have paid last summer. That is a win. Or else they can let them both go and get value in return — and that would be an even BIGGER win, since Childress is a bench player and Smith is an athletic freak with no basketball sense.

By mykhalc

July 9, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

verbal agreements??? i ain’t sold on any of ‘em yet…BRAND, BD, nor MAGETTE. lemme know when they’ve signed the dotted line!!! then we’ll really KNOW the true scenarios!!! everybody is still at the poker table!!!

By randy

July 9, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Great News! I never thought we could keep both Josh’s, but it may happen now. Maybe if we can snag us a decent center and 3 point shooter in FA we can get to the next level. GO Hawks!!

By puzzled

July 9, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

All we have been hearing since the season ended is how the Hawks MUST sign Smith and Childress. Is it possible we are kidding ourselves as to how they are regarded by the league? After all, when you watch both play you see so much about their games that doesn’t even remind you of NBA players,. I think it is very interesting ( a “visit” to Philly notwithstanding)that even though teams have had plenty of time to make offers to these two, as yet, no one has offered either anything. The whole thing about the Smith visit to Philly might have just been to put a little pressure on Brand to go ahead and sign with them. Just makes me wonder…

By AKM

July 9, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

hawks dont need j childress at all

By Seldin

July 9, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

How bout we Sign Monte Ellis , get rid of Marvin and put Joe Johnson to the 3 spot.

G Bibby G Ellis SF Johnson PF Smith C Horford

By Seldin

July 9, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

How bout we Sign Monte Ellis , get rid of Marvin and put Joe Johnson to the 3 spot.

G Bibby G Ellis SF Johnson PF Smith C Horford

By Seldin

July 9, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

How bout we Sign Monte Ellis , get rid of Marvin and put Joe Johnson to the 3 spot.

G Bibby G Ellis SF Johnson PF Smith C Horford

By zstet

July 9, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

this would have been really easy. all they had to do was to fire that last resort of a head coach( which all the players hate and all the fans know that he was not the reason we did so good in the 1st round of the playoffs) and both joshs’ would have already been signed. because woodson is the worst coach in the NBA and everyone knows he cant coach or handle a NBA team (maybe a high school team)

By david

July 9, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

If we keep them (J & J) or if we lose them it’s because of what SOMEBODY else did not the Hawks owners. Imagine that. It won’r be because we are aggressive or intelligent or loyal. It’s whatever falls in our lap because 80% of the time we just lay back. The lay back part would be passing up on Chris Paul and the aggressive part would be paying Chris Paul’s backup (Speedy) 25 mil. Go Hawks, Please do something smart and aggressive and prove us wrong every now and then. We are not world champs because we lost to Boston in 7 games. We still need to build. Don’t sit on your arse all summer and look forward to the 10th losing season in a row in the weak (getting stronger) east.

By Sam

July 9, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

There really should be a 24/7 news feed of what is happening exactly at this moment in all contract situations.

I am dying here.

By A Thinking Fan

July 9, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

It is amazing what players can do with the right talent around them. I remember when many of these Blogging Bamas wanted to trade everybody on the Hawks’ current roster… Winning and playoffs make memories real short!

By cp

July 9, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

I just saw on ESPN that Josh Smith is supposedly meeting with the Clippers today. Sterling hasnt been as cheap in recent years as he has in the past. The Clipps have the money to offer Smith a big contract and if they do it is up to the front office to match it.

I dont know much about the cap and sign and trade and all tha so somebody explain this to me. If the Clippers offer Josh a big contract and the Hawks dont want to match because of the size of it in what instance do we do a sign and trade? Do the Cliippers even have to make a sign and trade? I dont know much about this so maybe someone can fill me in.

By cp

July 9, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Well we can scratch James Jones from our wish list. He has signed with Miami. The teams in the EAST are improving and well we are the Hawks.

By cecil

July 9, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

someone please tell the hawks we need a dominate big man in the middle! geeesh this is like trying to explain economics to george bush!

By eric

July 9, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Dont’t speak to sone, I heard Josh Smith is in LA and with no where to turn the Clippers could put up more money than Philly was ever going to. Sources say LA could offer Smith more than 67 million over 5 years, the Hawks better match it.

By Doug

July 9, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Not to be a pessimist, but this is a pretty terrible article. First of all, we had a better chance of matching any offer Philly could make, whereas Golden State poses a much bigger threat to making an offer that we can’t afford to match. Now that Brand is going to Philly, Golden State has TONS of cap room and Smith is pretty much the perfect player for Nellie’s system there.

Furthermore, last time I check we signed Woodson to an extension. So although it is imperative that we sign Smith, we’re still going to suck with him until Woodson gets canned. Period.

By ray

July 9, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Today’s Truth Serum, courtesy of:

Samuel’s 8:00a.m. post

Melvin’s 9:20a.m. post

Sekou’s 11:03a.m. post

Yes, both honesty and truth are refreshing.

Come on, ASG, you’re killing the very momentum you’re trying to sell tickets on! How can we continue to be excited and get behind our team when we’re not even sure if we’ll get to see last year’s playoff squad, nor have any efforts (that we know of) been made to improve upon that squad! Don’t get me wrong, I’ll root for them as tirelessly as I always have. But stop the PAIN. Give us some good CRAP to go on.

Please make a good trade or two, if a good free agent acquisition cannot be made. A lot of the good free agents that would’ve really helped….are gone. The East is getting tougher. So many western players coming over. It won’t be so watered down this year, I don’t think. No limping into the playoffs with a .450 record. Come on, let’s get it on!

By hawks fan

July 9, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

SEKOU

IF the hawks sign a free agent, who do you think they SHOULD sign.. or WILL sign?

and also…

when the trading time comes in the NBA, do you think the Hawks should trade anyone? if so, who? and to what team?

By jcarson

July 9, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Definitely sign the 2 Joshes. Bibby and ZaZa will be gone after next season and that will free up almost $20 million to make a run at Carmelo!

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 9, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

The smart thing for the Hawks to do at this point in time is to offer Josh a 6-year deal with an average annual salary the same as he will probably get in the open market right now. When Josh ends up signing this summer, whether with the Hawks or with some other team that the Hawks will then have to match, he is probably gonna sign for three years if his agent is smart. The last thing the Hawks are gonna want to do in three years is worry about contracts for their three best players. Lock up Josh and then you can focus on Joe and Horford in a few years.

By CFT

July 9, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

This sounds interesting. Since the Clippers are not going to win any time soon, any chance they would trade Baron Davis to the Hawks for Bibby (expiring contract after next year) and a first round pick?

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Rose is struggling in the Summer League. Thats shocking, considering Marvin was the MVP. lol! And another thing, they dont even play good defense in those games, and he’s still having a tough go at it. On the other hand, Beasley looked like a man among boys. He was scoring with ease against Noah and Tyrus Thomas. I know its just the SL, but I would expect to see a lot more from a #1 overall pick, against a lot of 2nd rdrs. And why in the hell is Delnegro coaching his SL team? Maybe that’s why Rose looks a little nervous? His freakin Head Coach is coaching in the SL. lol! Imagine how Acie would feel if Woodrow showed up on the bench in Utah.

By STRETCH

July 9, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Well here we are again. The East is getting thicker, teams are dealling and the Hawks are sitting around twidling their thumbs again.

Atlanta is a lovely city with good people but the wrong people in upper management positions at the professional sports level. Atlanta will always be known as LOSERVILLE!

By bigeasy830

July 9, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

jcarson, why wait till next year to get Melo, do a sign and trade and bring him here this year. move Al to power forward and then any good big will want to ride with Melo, Al, JJ, Bibby and Marvin. Damn thats a great starting 5. Remeber at the start of last year everyone exclaimed what about Boston’s bench. Well they all are wearing rings, that is what’s up with Boston’s bench.

By Keanu

July 9, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

taht puts the hawks on the easy side as i call it they don’t have to deal with the sixers trying to offer josh so money and they only have to deal with the clippers or even the warriors so that puts them in the driver seat for the joshes!!!!

By stevethehawk

July 9, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Melo? Melo!?!?! I hope he never puts on a Hawks uniform. He will never be a champion or worth the money he makes. In my opinion, he is the worst of the top-tier players. And he never plays defense, which is the worst part.

By MannyT

July 9, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

My 5 on why I’m going with the patience, grasshoppers theme.

1. It really matters what the roster looks like at the beginning of November, not July.

2. We were never going after big names this summer (except keeping our Joshing)

3. The less major, but effective names that might sign for 3 or 4 million have to wait their turn. Not because of the ASG, but the contracts trickle down. The teams & agents get the big deals done, then work their way down to their less notable, lower paid players.

4. To borrow an idea from Colin Cowherd, all this summer madness for the NBA is the domain of us hardcore fans. There is little additional profit in working with this crowd. The casual fan has the incremental money. Right now, Casual Fan is watching a little baseball wondering what happened to the Yankees and trying to figure out if Tampa Bay got a new team run by religious folks who ran the devil out of devil rays.

5. Regardless of our ASG opinions, the good news is Brand to Philly takes one large sack of money and tension off the table. Even a dumb squirrel is safe from traffic if he can’t find the roads. Hopefully granny has them putting something in the tank to use later this summer.

5B. Where else can I see people participate in the blogosphere from across the country to talk about the Hawks & salary caps with a real live NBA beat reporter?

Besides Sekou needs extra fans so he can up his UM contribution. Coach Rich Rod needs $$$ to work down that $4 mil he has to send back to WVU ;-)

Now that’s a real PAIN in the pocket.

By smith

July 9, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

if you want a winning team, get team players around your star, joe johnson. sign and trade smith for camby and someone else. move al horford to the 4 where he can contribute more on both ends. childress and marvin and split time at the 3. and of course bibby at the point. after that, we just need a deeper bench, and we’d be true contenders! so………

TRADE JOSH SMITH!!!!!!!! KEEP JOSH CHILDRESS!!!!!!!

By Bubba, Lower Forty

July 9, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Hi y’all!! Sekou, how do you pronounce your first name? Like “see cow”, or “sick cow”?

By themickster311

July 9, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

this really is just so frusterating. If the asg wasnt so bad we would already have them locked up and be able to get some guys in FA this summer! I think we should match of smith and then either match on chill and keep him as trade bait or just do a sign and trade for him. Like someone said players like him aren’t hard to find. Regardless we should get something for chill or Williams. If we resign chill than we have the luxury or being able to trade chill or Williams.

I would rather see the hawks keep Williams than childress, he has improved each year, people forget how much talent and potential he has and how young he still is. With childress and mike bibbys contract we could bring in a HUGE name once the season starts. I wasnt too impressed with bibby anyways, law neither for that matter. Regardless tho if they match both offers they might miss out on FA this summer but they will have great trade bait. Even if they trade bibby and law doesnt step up, I’ve read that the knicks may end up just buying out marburys contract since signing Duhon, so maybe after matching both offers they could get a great trade for chill & bibby and get a solid big guy like okafor, and then possibly use their leftover cap room and get Marbury to return to Atlanta at a low price, give him the chance to redeem his failures in NY and try and lead a young hawks team until laws ready, something I don’t think bibby did very well. C-okafoe Pf-horford sf-smith sg-johnson pg-marbury bench: Williams/law/zaza

By MannyT

July 9, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

terrell Vinny D has to get his coaching practice in somewhere. Xbox skills won’t count in November!

I think AC would love it if Woody showed up in Utah. Given the roster and the way he coaches, AC gets 95% of the minutes and Woody might get used to playing him.

Woody would leave him in so he didn’t have to bother to learn the names of a bunch of guys that will be cut before November. We could be the only summer league team with a 6 man rotation ;-)

At that higher altitude it would be Rocky Mountain PAIN.

By ken Strickland

July 9, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

It’s truely amazing. The biggest off season moves made by our SAASG so far has been changing GM’s and resigning MWoodson. You know Atlanta fans will be tearing down the doors of Phillips arena to see those two operate this season(joke).

Since a chain is no stronger than it’s weakest link, how can we expect anytbing different from our rubberband owners. While our competition is busy strengthening their squads, our rubberband owners seem to be having an impossible time maintaining our current roster. It seems most everyone else is more interested in our RFA’s than we are. By doing nothing, they’re in essence shopping them around to the highest bidder in hopes of initiating a sign and trade.

fOR THE TIME BEING, I GUESS WE’LL JUST HAVE TO DO LIKE THE SAASG, SIT AROUND, DO NOTHING AND WAIT.

By Melvin

July 9, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

At least I learned one thing from the ASG, not to sign a deal earlier. I’m glad I didn’t accept the 08-09 Season Tix offer they were trying to sell me when I bought my playoff tixs. I’m glad I knew then what I know now. You can’t trust the ASG to do the right thing.

Instead of them building on their playoffs momentum and improve the team by signing their RFA, other FA or trading for vet players. Their going to play the waiting game and try to penny pinch their way back into the playoffs. Very proactive that ASG is…

I guess I will sit back and see if they make the playoffs before I purchase another tix from them…

Am I being a proactive or reactive fan…. Neither, I’m just a BASG Fan…

By virgil leonard

July 9, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Nice article Sekou, But I have one question. Is there any chance we try to snag Emeka Okafor from the Bobcats. With him the middle and Horford at his natural position we could make a serious run in eastern conference playoffs next season.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Hey Manny, if anyone needs to get some coaching practice, it’s Woodrow. lol!! And your’re right. Woody would’nt give half the guys a chance. He wont even play the bench players HE KNOWS, much less the ones HE DOES’NT. lol!

By MannyT

July 9, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Another 3 million to put into the revenue column. Even more for the low revenue teams.

NBA style Income redistribution.

Notice how San Antonio and Detroit continue to be good, but don’t pay luxury tax.

Role models for good CRAP!

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

**Instead of crying about having to wait and see, the Hawks should be aggressively pursuing sign-and-trade deals to maximize the value of the players and the leverage they have because they are RFAs. Look what Phoenix did to the Hawks with Joe Johnson. They practically hit the lottery, forcing Atlanta to pay up with players AND draft picks.

At the end of all this, the Hawks might wind up keeping one or both Joshes at the same price (or less) than they might have paid last summer. That is a win. Or else they can let them both go and get value in return — and that would be an even BIGGER win, ** Realist

All so very very true. I raised these exact points last week and caught hell. I was told that I did understand how things worked and lacked true insight!

By not being reactive and signing the Smith and Childress at their agent-dictated price, the Hawks allowed the market to set the price which has turned out to be favorable towards them.

Why pay more than you absolutely have to to players who are important to your team, but aren’t consensus superstars? Especially when a contract offer has been rejected.

Funny how those who complain about the Hawks not signing them already never mentioned that a contract offer was extended and rejected.

Who are the players out there that they are missing out on that they could have pursued if they had locked up Smith and Childress? Maggette? Brand? Davis?

You haven’t gotten an answer yet because , well, there aren’t any they missed out on because they would not have the cap space to sign any of those guys.

ASG could have gone after one of those guys. This is an option they would not have available if they had been scared into signing contracts.

By taking the stance they have taken, ASG has more options available to them. I know this is not what part of the received wisdom but it is true nonetheless.

ASG told the fans what their intention are and that is to resign both guys. They have taken heat for the way they’ve played it, but maybe, just maybe they read the market better than those criticizing them here on this blog.

Even with this encouraging news, people are still skeptical. People are bending over backwards to imagine how things could go wrong, no matter how unlikely, talking about the budget, and selling tickets, and anything they can to be negative.

Let’s give ASG it’s due, lets start giving the team positive energy. Most of the free agents who can help us like O’Bryant are still available. Trades are still a possibility.

There’s much to look forward to fellow fans!!

By KevinM

July 9, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Okay, becuase we haven’t signed OUR own FA, we lose out of a chance for Pietrus, James Jones and who knows who else around the corner. Sekou, I know you think this is just a process that the Hawks will retain Smoove, but I really think the Clippers will make a splash and make the ASG ante up with a big salary. Now, if/when someone signs Smoove to an offer sheet, (GS or the Clips), do you honestly think the ASG can come to an agreement on something in 7 days? I think they botch this thing and if they are reading this, no one will be surprised. They already brought back a lame duck who really has the home crowd to thank for his return. No other coach would have survived that record he has put together. Off of my Woody rant now…… Would anyone at this point be surprised to see Chills get an offer the same day and really confuse the ASG? Say Chills gets his offer first….that could really throw a wrench into things. Sekou, have you heard if Chills has been talking with other teams? If he gets a 7-8M offer, the ASG might not be able to bring him back not knowing what Smoove will be offered. THe Clippers might be wanting to go with OKafor more than SMoove, but Smoove is the better choice based on his age alone. Now, say the Clippers gign Smoover, would the Lakers try to wage a Lamar Odom for Smoove deal at the ASG since it is an expiring deal? I wouldn’t be surprised. My prediction to what the Hawks will end up with in their big FA plans: Ira Newble. BANG! A lot of noise for the fan base.

By Randy

July 9, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

I believe Smith must be kept, but I wouldn’t be against a sign and trade for Childress as long as we can get a decent center (basically a space eater) and/or outside shooter. Only problem is we are stuck with Marvin playing long minutes at SF…something that scares me.

By randy

July 9, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

I believe Smith must be kept, but I wouldn’t be against a sign and trade for Childress as long as we can get a decent center (basically a space eater) and/or outside shooter. Only problem is we are stuck with Marvin playing long minutes at SF…something that scares me.

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 9, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

I thought it was pronounced “say koo”… that’s how Nas says it on the song “Sekou Story” on his album “Street’s Disciple”.

By Melvin

July 9, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Kirknga, I would feel a tad bit better about the BASG had they should some signs of activity during this FA. Waiting on another team to make an officer to your RFA doesn’t count as being proactive. They already skip the draft to concentrate on the FA period. At least thats what they said. Now here we are almost 10 days into the FA period and we don’t even here a sound coming from the front office while other teams are pursuing and courting FA’s. Only reference you hear about the Hawks is when another team is trying court their RFA’s. How come we don’t hear about the BASG bring in other FA’s for a tour of the city? At least BK was able to get Kmart and Eddy Curry in town for a visit.

By Volman

July 9, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

EVERYONE, PLEASE CALM DOWN! Sheesh…

I can’t understand why so many bloggers are getting upset about the Hawks organization “not signing” any free agents. The Hawks were not in position to get any “big name” guys to help the team… Their big moves are to get Chill and Smoove. They are DOING THE RIGHT THING by waiting on what the market does for these players. If you have to blindly have faith in this organization, then do it! Just be patient.. Worrying and complaining will not change anything, trust me! I’ve tried!

I think Sund knows what he’s doing for the most part…. He’s got a lot of experience.. I’d say 30 years or so more than ANY of us… So let’s let him do his job.. Hopefully he can bring in some good free agents that will round out the roster.

There aren’t even any game changing free agents right now that the Hawks were wanting to pursue anyway.. Remember, Billy Knight said in the Town Hall Meeting that they were not going to be targeting any free agents this summer… That they were going to go for big names NEXT year…

As I recall, there’s about $15 Million coming off the books next year…

calm down!

By KevinM

July 9, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Reponse to Kirk…based on what the ASG offered last year to the 2 Joshes, you think they tried to pay undermarket value for them? Has anyone ever mentioned what they offered Chills?

Both guys were smart to hold off and it should still pay off for them. That has nothing to do with the reactive ways of the ASG. They let everyone else dictate the plan. They’re owners of a franchise who has no history of success; something has to be done to bring a winning attitude and a championship mindset to this organization. Their actions are of ‘don’t rock the boat’ mentality and stay the course. For those of you season ticket holders, God bless you for believing that you will eventually reap some kind of success for the fortune you have doled out so far with this regime. Nowadays, based on the cost to support a franchise as a fan, to take 5 years to field a competitive team. It just shouldn’t.
While the price of the franchise continues to climb from your initial investment based on global interest outside of your franchise, you continue to play the wait and see who’s left after all this. Anyone here think this team in its current state of players/management, will be able to make a top 4 finish in the East this year? Highly and most likely no way this team can achieve a 10-15 win increase in one year. That should be the first goal; have a home court advantage and get this city known for passiveness geeked to see these guys perform. We don’t have a Kobe/Wade/Garnett/LeBron in place. We would rather wallow behind the scenes and just pick up a piece or two and not try to make too many changes from the 40 wins from a year ago. To be a success, you have to act like you want to be successful. I don’t see the ASG doing this. And their decisions just repeat this mediocre approach over and over again. We definitely are the Bizzaro of Mark Cuban’s Superman approach as an ownership group.

By Melvin

July 9, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Volman, base on your theory. Maybe all us Hawks fans should not support them this season and wait until the 09-10 season to support them after they make their big move(s). I mean, it’s not like they will try to compete for the championship this upcoming season. Right?????

By H from Marietta

July 9, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Guys, I’ve just found out that Andrew Bogut got an extension of 5yrs/$72.5MM!!! I think we’re screwed trying to sign Smoove because how can a guy make almost $15MM/year for only 14/10 and 1.7 BPG? Dumb Bucks had to overpay! Now they screwed the market by inflating it.

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Kirknga, I would feel a tad bit better about the BASG had they should some signs of activity during this FA. ..Now here we are almost 10 days into the FA period and we don’t even here a sound coming from the front office while other teams are pursuing and courting FA’s.

Melvin They are being active. They told us the first order of business is to resign both players. That looks likely now and at a price set by the market rather than out of fear. Only big ticket FA’s have been signed so far. Are you saying there are no longer any FA’s out there that could help us?

People forget that the players’ agent likely told them not to sign with the Hawks until they went looking to see what they could get on the open market. Good advice from agents I would think.

But everyone wants to blame ASG, when it’s the players who are acting in their own best interests as well. They could say ok, lets talk now Hawks, but no, they’re waiting to see if any offers are forthcoming and at what price. It’s a two way street correct?

To be a success, you have to act like you want to be successful. I don’t see the ASG doing this. And their decisions just repeat this mediocre approach over and over again.

ASG has stated their priority is to retain the services of both players. People here are suggesting that if the Hawks are to be successful they must sign Smith, if not both. Since they have said they are doing what people here say will signal success, how can you say it is otherwise?

I think we all know that the Hawks do not have the revenue stream of a New York, or LA, or even Dallas. But that is no reason to act as if ASG is without any resources at all. JJ’s contract, and taking on Bibby’s contract, as well as resigning both players is not a sign of a cheap or poor organization.

I’m not going to point fingers at ASG because they will not exceed they aren’t willing to pay the luxury tax.

But that is what people here are really saying when they talk about ASG and the budget and all this other money stuff. Y’all want them to pay luxury tax, but they don’t have roster of superstars so why should they just hand money out? That’s how you mess things up for seasons to come.

No, again, they’re playing this smart guys. Let’s not look for negatives because there is no reason at this point.

Go Hawks!!

By MannyT

July 9, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

Volman I am mad and I’m not going to take it anymore. I am gone from 303.

Oh yeah, I already did that…never mind ;-)

But I did stay in the building, so I’ve got some level of hope. About $20 mil comes off with Bibby & Zaza next season. If they decide to renounce Marvin, his cap charge is over 7 mil. You can do a lot with $20-27 million next summer.

Thus I am calm, cool, & collected for a few weeks. Once they brought back the 3 game wonder coach, I hit my bottom. Now I’m on the way back up.

Ken as I might say to doc maybe it takes granny a little longer to get in the game, but once she’s got that 75 Torino on the road, she’s as tough as Starsky & Hutch ;-)

WAF

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Guys, I’ve just found out that Andrew Bogut got an extension of 5yrs/$72.5MM!!! I think we’re screwed trying to sign Smoove because how can a guy make almost $15MM/year for only 14/10 and 1.7 BPG?

Bogut plays center. That is a different part of the market. The Bucks, it would seem, looked around and said we aren’t going to find anyone else who is as good so lets give him the money before someone else does. How many centers are putting up better numbers than that? Maybe 3 or 4?

I’d take him, or a center on the Hawks that gave us 14/10/ 1.7 in a heartbeat!

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Miller-BIBBY Iggy-JJ Thaddeous-Marvin Brand-Smoove Dalembert-Big Al Whats so great about the new Sixers roster? I think we still match up pretty well. So why is everyone predicting Philly to be the 2 or 3 seed in the East? Must be COACHING! Because when I look at that roster and look at ours, its not that far apart. Thoughts?

By glw

July 9, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Kirknga,

I agree with you that there are not many guys putting up that much better numbers than him, but I still think they overpaid. Why not do what the Hawks did this year? Worse case scenario, he gets offer the similiar deal next year? He is above average at best. I wander what Marvin is thinking now? CP just got a max extension, and so did Bogut, and I am sure Utah is working on something similar for Deron Williams. If Marvin didnt have soemthing to prove before, he sure does now.

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Because when I look at that roster and look at ours, its not that far apart. Thoughts?

terrell It’s too early to compare rosters I would think. When camp breaks then we will have a better idea.

But at this point in the process,I think the addition of Brand gives the Sixers a better starting 5 than the Hawks.

And if the rosters in your estimation are about the same, and the difference is coaching, then why didn’t that great coaching get the Sixers further in the playoffs last season but the Hawks coaching did? I mean it was the Hawks, not the Sixers who played the eventual champ correct?

That said, I’m not a huge Woodie fan. I don’t think he’s used Salim and Solomon correctly……… That said, as I commented at the time, there was a case to be made for retaining him. When Sund offered only a 2 year deal, I felt s if he was a smart GM.

By Volman

July 9, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Melvin, nope… Not a theory, just venting. People can call the ASG “broke” or “stupid” or “cheap”.. That’s fine. It’s just asinine to sit around here and put down moves that HAVE NOT been done yet… PATIENCE is pretty important here, guys. I say we dissect everything that Sund does this offseason WHEN IT IS DONE… Let’s see what he can do. I’d say getting Childress and Smoove back on this team is the first step.

I’ll see you in section 303 next year… Will you be there all 45+ games? I’m surely not skipping a season, but I was stating that the “big dogs” will be available then… Am I wrong to say that better free agents are going to be around then?

Right???

By randy

July 9, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

I am not so optimistic as Sekou. Clippers, despite their past history, have enough cap room, after Maghetti and Brand have left, to offer Smith enough money that the Hawks could not match. They would probably overpay but they have that luxury. Coincidently, JSmoove is in LA as we speak. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has an offer on the table from the Clips by tomorrow morning.

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

JSmoove is in LA as we speak. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has an offer on the table from the Clips by tomorrow morning.

And he was in Philly before…wined and dined…jersey with his name on it. Look what happened. Then people said, oh watch out for those Warriors they have money! We see how that has gone.

Now he’s in LA, what, three days now and no offer? If LA wants him, what is it that could keep their offer private at this point? A sign and trade perhaps?

Or, they aren’t going to make a huge offer. I don’t think we can assume that just because they lost Brand, and signed BD, that they now are going to offer Smith a huge contract. Perhaps they don’t put his value as high as many on this blog place it.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

Orlando signed Pietrus. Maybe we can go after Bogans. Either he or Reddick is a goner. (2.4 mill) He could back up JJ, or maybe even start at the 2 and JJ to the 3.

By Samuel

July 9, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

I wish everyone would calm down and let this thing play out. Everyone is assuming that nothing is going on. Our main focus right now is: JOSH SMITH, period. I’m quite sure there is negotiating going on. I personally love the fact that they are not tipping their hand to the media and the blog nation. Why should they, they are in the driver’s seat right now.

Everyone wants us to make moves just because everybody else is making moves but is that the right thing to do. With all the moves that have been made so far. Has anybody gotten better than the 2008 Boston Celtics? If not, they’re no better than what we can put on the floor, if we sign everybody we got right now.

That’s our trump card and everyone in the NBA knows it, including Josh Smith and his agent. To me, he would be making a big mistake to leave Atlanta where he has a chance to be an Allstar in his home town for a place like the LA and the Clippers organization. I just believe they’re dottin the Is and crossing the Ts right now.

Relax Guys. We’re OK.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

Orlando signed Pietrus. Maybe we can go after Bogans. (2.4 mill) Either he or Reddick is a goner. He could back up JJ, or maybe even start at the 2 and JJ to the 3.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

Orlando signed Pietrus. Maybe we can go after Bogans. (2.4 mill) Either he or Reddick is a goner. He could back up JJ, or maybe even start at the 2 and JJ at the 3.

By Adam

July 9, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

This may be a stupid question, but I thought Andre Iguodola and Louis Williams were both restricted free agents? If so how can philly resign either one of those players?

By T.O

July 9, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

For those of you who know J. Smoothe know that he’s too immature and too big of a baby to move away from his Atlanta home. I’d bet my house he stays with the Hawks. He’s not going anywhere.

By doc

July 9, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

some teams know how to do it as the bucks have already scured their man bogut for 5 years after this year. that is the type of committment that sekou reasons is needed to act quickly and thoroughly. again the hawks are hamstrung to do anything until they know how much or if they are going to pay the joshes before they can begin to put a team around them.

no, there is more than one way to “do it right”. one is to spend the amount to get people onto the program feeling good about it and the other is to make sure all know you arent going to pay too much more than you absolutely have to.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

It looks like the Clippers might go after Okafur and not J-Smoove. We might just get him for 55 mill. after all. Only GS and Memphis are left, if LA passes.

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

First all many on here knows nothing about basketball. Elton Brand is a much better player then J smoove, many here in Philly wasn’t too excited about signing him . Elton can play with his back against the basketball with a outside shot. can play defense. Jsmoove can’t really play defense, He might be Atlanta Hawks savior but Philly media and majority of fans wasn’t to overjoy with either josh’s especially Childress who game is too weak. Elton Brand was the man along the Sixers wanted so they got they gy, a instant contender in the East. But Hawks fans are all overjudging talent wise your roster and players.

By chenzhen

July 9, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

J chill is a starter, we should trade marvin for Camby. marvin is the worst player I have seen in years. josh smith is a beast!!

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

First all many on here knows nothing about basketball. Elton Brand is a much better player then J smoove, many here in Philly wasn’t too excited about signing him . Elton can play with his back against the basketball with a outside shot. can play defense. Jsmoove can’t really play defense, He might be Atlanta Hawks savior but Philly media and majority of fans wasn’t to overjoy with either josh’s especially Childress who game is too weak. Elton Brand was the man all along the Sixers wanted so they got they gy, a instant contender in the East. But Hawks fans are all overjudging talent wise your roster and players.

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

First all many on here knows nothing about basketball. Elton Brand is a much better player then J smoove, many here in Philly wasn’t too excited about signing him . Elton can play with his back against the basketball with a outside shot. can play defense. Jsmoove can’t really play defense, He might be Atlanta Hawks savior but Philly media and majority of fans wasn’t to overjoy with either josh’s especially Childress who game is too weak. Elton Brand was the man all along the Sixers wanted so they got they gy, a instant contender in the East. But Hawks fans are all overjudging talent wise your roster and players.

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

First all many on here knows nothing about basketball. Elton Brand is a much better player then J smoove, many here in Philly wasn’t too excited about signing him . Elton can play with his back against the basketball with a outside shot. can play defense. Jsmoove can’t really play defense, He might be Atlanta Hawks savior but Philly media and majority of fans wasn’t to overjoy with either josh’s especially Childress who game is too weak. Elton Brand was the man all along the Sixers wanted so they got they gy, a instant contender in the East. But Hawks fans are all overjudging talent wise your roster and players.

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

First all many on here knows nothing about basketball. Elton Brand is a much better player then J smoove, many here in Philly wasn’t too excited about signing him . Elton can play with his back against the basketball with a outside shot. can play defense. Jsmoove can’t really play defense, He might be Atlanta Hawks savior but Philly media and majority of fans wasn’t to overjoy with either josh’s especially Childress who game is too weak. Elton Brand was the man all along the Sixers wanted so they got they gy, a instant contender in the East. But Hawks fans are all overjudging talent wise your roster and players.

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

First all many on here knows nothing about basketball. Elton Brand is a much better player then J smoove, many here in Philly wasn’t too excited about signing him . Elton can play with his back against the basketball with a outside shot. can play defense. Jsmoove can’t really play defense, He might be Atlanta Hawks savior but Philly media and majority of fans wasn’t to overjoy with either josh’s especially Childress who game is too weak. Elton Brand was the man all along the Sixers wanted so they got they guy, a instant contender in the East. But Hawks fans are all overjudging talent wise your roster and players.

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

First all many on here knows nothing about basketball. Elton Brand is a much better player then J smoove, many here in Philly wasn’t too excited about signing him . Elton can play with his back against the basketball with a outside shot. can play defense. Jsmoove can’t really play defense, He might be Atlanta Hawks savior but Philly media and majority of fans wasn’t to overjoy with either josh’s especially Childress who game is too weak. Elton Brand was the man all along the Sixers wanted so they got they guy, a instant contender in the East. But Hawks fans are all overjudging talent wise your roster and players.

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

First all many on here knows nothing about basketball. Elton Brand is a much better player then J smoove, many here in Philly wasn’t too excited about signing him . Elton can play with his back against the basketball with a outside shot. can play defense. Jsmoove can’t really play defense, He might be Atlanta Hawks savior but Philly media and majority of fans wasn’t to overjoy with either josh’s especially Childress who game is too weak. Elton Brand was the man all along the Sixers wanted so they got they guy, a instant contender in the East. But Hawks fans are all overjudging talent wise your roster and players.

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

First all many on here knows nothing about basketball. Elton Brand is a much better player then J smoove, many here in Philly wasn’t too excited about signing him . Elton can play with his back against the basketball with a outside shot. can play defense. Jsmoove can’t really play defense, He might be Atlanta Hawks savior but Philly media and majority of fans wasn’t to overjoy with either josh’s especially Childress who game is too weak. Elton Brand was the man all along the Sixers wanted so they got they guy, a instant contender in the East. But Hawks fans are all overjudging talent wise your roster and players.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

So Bogut, Paul, and Deron already got extensions. That’s the #1, 3, and 4 pick of the 2005 draft. What’s wrong with that picture? That should tell us what Sund thinks of Marvin. Have’nt even heard a whisper about Marvin getting an extension. Maybe theres a trade coming. There’s a lot of teams looking for a SF. If we could deal Marvin and a throwin for a shooter and a decent big, and then re-sign both Joshes, I’ll be estatic. And I know. I know. He’s young and has so much potential. I know!

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

*Has anybody gotten better than the 2008 Boston Celtics? *

Now that is cutting to the chase isn’t it! The answer is no, on paper it doesn’t look as if anyone has improved enough to over take them in the East. We will not know until playoff time though.

On paper, it’s still the same. Boston, Detroit, Cleveland and everyone else is some undetermined order in the East.

Out West, still is The Lakers, Spurs, and everyone else to be determined.

Should the Hawks sign Smith as most people here believe is the best course of action(some the only course), then he needs to deliver for the Hawks. 37 wins is not acceptable with this unique talent as some have called him.

No backtracking, no pointing the fingers at other players/coaches, no excuses. Smith needs to be all that folks are saying he has become or will become supposedly at a future date. He needs to be worth all the sweating and worry that is going on now.

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Hey Hawks fans J smoove is only a all star in your mind. He wasn’t the right fit here with the SIXERS. I have a question why do you think the Sixers signed Brand and not Jsmoove? Why do any team want Josh Childress?

By JBEEZ

July 9, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

yes the Sixers gotten better the Celtics is the Celtics, older, Pistons needs to be broken up.

By Robert Yates

July 9, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Adam, Louis Williams and Andre Iguodola both already play for the Sixers. Do you not know what Restricted means? Can the days pass by any slower? I swear I’m checking the AJC.com like 5 times a day to see if they’re any updates.

By Volman

July 9, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

JBEEZ, you honestly lose ALL of your credibility with your terrible grammar and run-on sentences. Oh yeah, you posted the same thing about 30 times.

We really don’t care for your opinion… Go run along to the Sixers blog and talk about the cripple you just signed! :)

Did you know that people point out flaws in others that are actually flaws of themselves?

You say that the Sixers don’t want Smoove for Chill….Yet I’m sure you’d take them if given the opportunity.

Bye! Run along!

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

JBEEZ

Back away from the Post button. One time is all it takes.

To answer your question, your Sixers management thought enough of Smith so perhaps you should ask them those questions and then report back to us.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

Kirkinga, what I was saying is why is everyone predicting the Sixers to be a 2 or 3 seed? It has to be coaching. Because that roster looks no better than ours. I was not dogging ya boy Woody. I was just trying to think of a reason why the Sixers are all of a sudden one of the favorites in the East. That’s all. However, I’d take Cheeks over Woody in a heartbeat.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

JBeez, did you see how Josh played against Garnett. He gave him fits. I guess you think Elton is better than KG too. And Elton is 29. Smith is 22. Brand will be retiring when Iggy and Thaddeous hit their prime.

By Sautee

July 9, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

kirknga

Funny how those who complain about the Hawks not signing them already never mentioned that a contract offer was extended and rejected.

FALSE!

Just kidding man. But seriously Astro Joe and I had this discussion, and wondered whether Billy ever subsequently sought out a figure that it * would* take to resign Smoove in the fall. Which was his job to do.

That doesn’t mean he did his job, OR that Smoove’s agents didn’t say “We’ll just wait ‘til next year”. But the point was raised on the blog not long ago. Maybe you were over at DOB’s.

Kirk, I think you’re missing my point about this subject.

What’s wrong with approaching young, promising players, that you’d like to retain, BEFORE they become RFA’s and say “Look we know you’re looking for a big payday, and you certainly deserve a raise, but we have to pay not only you, but X, and Y, and next year Z and so and so.” “I know you’d like to be surrounded by good players, and everyone wants to make their fair share. Let’s negotiate a long term deal that we can both be happy with.”

Does that not sound sensible?

It’s what the Patriots have done for years with their roster.

Tell me why that’s errant. Are there not more ways to skin this cat than one?

By Anthony

July 9, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Re-Sign Josh Smith and Josh Childress.

Then trade away some bench players like the 76ers did and sign emeka okafor.

By Anthony

July 9, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Re-Sign Josh Smith and Josh Childress.

Then trade away some bench players like the 76ers did and sign emeka okafor.

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

*I was not dogging ya boy Woody. *

No no now! I said I was no big fan of Woodie didn’t I? He ain’t my boy. I was just being honest and saying that I don’t think that it is impossible to imagine why an organization would extend the contract of a coach that has increased the numbers of wins each season and finally reach the playoffs. That’s all.

Personally, I would’ve taken Larry Brown who has a track record that says it’s very likely the Bobcats will be in the playoffs soon.

But they only gave him 2 years, not 5, that seems smart to me, you bring him back, but you can still fire him without having to pay a lot.

By Mitch

July 9, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

JBEEZ: To compare J-Smoove to Elton Brand at this point in their careers is moot. Brand’s been around 9 years and he played a couple of year at Duke.

Smith has been around 4 years and is till 22 years old.

To suggest—as arrogantly as you did—that fans on this board don’t know basketball is a poor choice.

Brand is a classic PF…while Smith is a SF/PF tweener who can block shots as well, if not better, than just about anyone in the NBA.

Check your own knowledge.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

JBEEZ, your’re embarrassing yourself!

By Astro Joe

July 9, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

terrell, it takes two to tango. Why would Marvin’s people even call Sund to negotiate at this point? They should want to give their client another year to blossom. Much like Smith’s agents were in no huge rush to negotiate last summer. And why would the owners commit to spending any money now when they may not be running the show in March. IMHO, if they could get Smith and Chill to take a one year offer, they would leap at it.

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Sautee kid all you want man, I don’t take myself so seriously. I’m always at DOB’s, but I’m always here to, just talk more there is all.

Yes, I did read you guy’s discussion about that, as well as a couple of others who touch on the point indirectly.

To answer your question, yes it does sound reasonable and that is exactly what the Hawks did. They made an offer. He refused.

The point of my comment was to say it is plausible that BK made those overtures, but if one reads the past several blogs, the emphasis , or blame, has been placed primarily on ASG, when all it is trying to do is keep it’s players and not pay more than they have to.

Why pay more than you have to? Why worry about it when you hold a right to match any offer?

This would be a dumb move by ASG if he was unrestricted, but since he’s not, I think it’s smart. Every dollar they might save on Smith is more to offer others that will improve the team.

It’s what the Patriots have done for years with their roster.

Um, well turns out they doing some other things too huh?

When you have a HOF QB, and tape of the other teams signals you can win you some games!

By tyrell

July 9, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

*Should the Hawks sign Smith as most people here believe is the best course of action(some the only course), then he needs to deliver for the Hawks. 37 wins is not acceptable with this unique talent as some have called him.

No backtracking, no pointing the fingers at other players/coaches, no excuses. Smith needs to be all that folks are saying he has become or will become supposedly at a future date. He needs to be worth all the sweating and worry that is going on now.*

i thought it was a team game. so now we just ignore the veteran players like joe and mike and its all joshs fault if we dont win more than 37 games? stop drinking the hatorade. is it josh you hate or just the people that find more value in him than you do? wow if thats supporting the team i would hate to see what a non fan attitude is.

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

is it josh you hate or just the people that find more value in him than you do?

I don’t hate Josh Smith, so don’t act like you can read my heart.

But please do read all of my comments and you will see that I’ve said that I have no problem with the Hawks bringing Smith back. I’ve called him talented and athletic, even exciting.

…people that find more value in him than you do?..

You’re the one that has a problem with me and how I value Smith.

Emphasis has been placed on Smith with Childress a distant second, and the team is in the trunk somewhere.

wow if thats supporting the team i would hate to see what a non fan attitude is.

Um, that’s funny, I’ve been asking people not to be gloom and doom, I’ve asked for people to not automatically criticize ASG, but since I said I expect Smith to live up to the hype I suddenly am not supporting the team. No try again chief.

If you had read all of my comments you would also have read that my primary focus is on improving on 37 wins and I don’t care how they do it or on what timetable just as long as we win more than we did last season.

If that is with Smith fine, if not that’s fine too.

Now that I’ve answered your comments. How about telling me why I shouldn’t expect that Josh Smith is the player that so many insist that he is?

Many have said that not signing Smith would be a step backwards, so signing him should bring improvement no?

Surely we haven’t devoted the last several blogs to a player that people can’t confidently state will make his team better?

By new jersey faithful

July 9, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

WHO CARES!! WODSOON IS THE STILL THE COACH, SO ITS GOING TO BE THE SAME BS NEXT YEAR! WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

How bout the Dream! 2 in a row.

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

Hey Astro, I guess the same reason Bogut’s agent did. Neither one of them seem to be getting that much better. What if he degresses? Then what? Btw, I was being sarcastic. I know we would’nt offer Marvin an extension. Not yet anyways. Why would we?

By Sautee

July 9, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Kirk

To answer your question, yes it does sound reasonable and that is exactly what the Hawks did. They made an offer. He refused.

We do NOT know that there was ever negotiation. All we know is that the Hawks offered 5/$45M and that he turned that down.

If we knew that BK had actually negotiated beyond 5/45 then I might not be arguing the point. But if they could have signed him at ANYTHING less than the market sets for him now, then I think you’d have to say they were in error for not doing it sooner and showing him some respect in the process.

Remember that as you said, any dollar saved goes toward making the team better somewhere else.

What if we had negotiated 5/52.5?

Would you have said we were overpaying?

I said all year no more than 5/60, but it looks like the market may be higher, though I’m patient enough to wait and see. Speaking of waiting, once “whomever” made the decision to let them go on the open market , then of course you don’t open negotiations until you get offers. So I agree with you there. I just think a smart franchise is proactive way before the “market price” is set.

Why pay more than you have to?

My point exactly. They didn’t have to let it go to the market (Where they’ll certainly pay more than they might have last fall).

And you can dis the Pats all you want for Spygate (and they deserve whatever they brought on themselves), but it doesn’t change the fact that they have been successful for YEARS doing exactly what we’re talking about.

Glad you can take the kidding ‘cause my wife swears that teasing is a disease that I’m afflicted with. ;-)

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

Speaking of waiting, once “whomever” made the decision to let them go on the open market , then of course you don’t open negotiations until you get offers.

Smith turned down the Hawks. So he’s on the market partly because he wanted more than what the Hawks offered.

I never said we knew anything, but that it was plausible the subject was brought up with his agents. But that again brings us back to Smith’s side, why would his agent advise him to sign anything the Hawks offered(if it wasn’t a max contract)?

I’m simply looking at a more complete picture than laying blame with ASG only.

*They didn’t have to let it go to the market *

Again, “they” includes Smith!! The Hawks made an offer…Smith turned it down. So “they” is Smith too. See both sides, not one.

By going to market, the Hawks may or may not have to pay more than they are willing. By going to market, Smith make get more than the Hawks offered or he may not. So again, there’s no reason to blame ASG it’s just good business not to panic and sign when you hold a right to match that will allow you to sit back and see if any teams values him more than you have.

By Astro Joe

July 9, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Still no contracts for Deng, Iggy, Okafor or Ben Gordon. Not a rumor. Not a hint. Nothing. Contract extensions for Paul and Bogut, but nothing for the guys who came out the year before (and didn’t sign extensions prior to becoming RFAs). Fascinating.

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

oops forgot about the Pats

*And you can dis the Pats all you want *

Actually, I’d like to thank the Pats for providing me with one of the most satisfying sports moments in my life. For month upon month, game after game, the Pats were praised. Historic they said. Genius they all agreed!

And when the biggest moment of all came, the Pats ..well, they got whooped! Oh yes…it was a beautiful thang!

A shiny testament of never ever should we believe the hype!

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

Astro, those guys have’nt even been mentioned as being sought after by other teams in free-agency, and both Joshes have. Go ahead BK, with yo bad self. lol!

By doc

July 9, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

astro ….. collusion?

By terrell barron

July 9, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

Ther goes one of my shooters. Roger Mason Jr. to the Spurs.

By Astro Joe

July 9, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Doc, I actually think that they are getting hosed by teams like the Nets and Knicks (and others) who are keeping a light on for LeBron, Wade and Amare. Those teams simply won’t offer more than a 2 year deal and obviously, those ‘05 classmates aren’t about to sign a 2-year deal. IMHO, those GMs are saying that they would rather have a $500M lottery ticket (LeBron) with crazy odds of winning than a $50M lottery ticket (Iggy) with much better odds.

I do like what the Nets did, however. They cleared room for the LeBron gamble while bringing in Yi. If Chinatown crosses the river to watch him play, the Nets will make crazy money BEFORE LeBron arrives. They weren’t going to win with Jefferson so why not make money while losing (and waiting)? BRILLIANT!

By Matt

July 9, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

Good news for the Hawks.

Say a quick prayer for your boy Matt, who’s getting a precautionary brain MRI tomorrow (Thursday). Cheers, y’all.

By Andrew

July 9, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe made a good point with iggy, deng, gordon, and okafor still free agents with no transactions going on with any of them. All of those guys are good players and can help a team get to the next level. i wish the Hawks were aggressive and would make a move for one of these guys. Okafor and Horford in the paint would be nasty. I understand the Joshes are good but Gordon is a better 6th man than Childress. Also Deng and Iggy or far more developed than Josh Smith at this point. I know that would be ruining what built this team but this team went 37-45 last year and lucked into the playoffs thanks to a collapse by the Pacers and Nets. I love the Joshes but they are not the best players out there and I am greedy when it comes to my team. I say make a move for another player. That move could also spark Josh Smith into wanting to stay with the Hawks. I know we aren’t going to make any moves because this is the ASG we are talking about but it’s nice to wish for.

By Andrew

July 9, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe made a good point with iggy, deng, gordon, and okafor still free agents with no transactions going on with any of them. All of those guys are good players and can help a team get to the next level. i wish the Hawks were aggressive and would make a move for one of these guys. Okafor and Horford in the paint would be nasty. I understand the Joshes are good but Gordon is a better 6th man than Childress. Also Deng and Iggy or far more developed than Josh Smith at this point. I know that would be ruining what built this team but this team went 37-45 last year and lucked into the playoffs thanks to a collapse by the Pacers and Nets. I love the Joshes but they are not the best players out there and I am greedy when it comes to my team. I say make a move for another player. That move could also spark Josh Smith into wanting to stay with the Hawks. I know we aren’t going to make any moves because this is the ASG we are talking about but it’s nice to wish for.

By Andrew

July 9, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe made a good point with iggy, deng, gordon, and okafor still free agents with no transactions going on with any of them. All of those guys are good players and can help a team get to the next level. i wish the Hawks were aggressive and would make a move for one of these guys. Okafor and Horford in the paint would be nasty. I understand the Joshes are good but Gordon is a better 6th man than Childress. Also Deng and Iggy or far more developed than Josh Smith at this point. I know that would be ruining what built this team but this team went 37-45 last year and lucked into the playoffs thanks to a collapse by the Pacers and Nets. I love the Joshes but they are not the best players out there and I am greedy when it comes to my team. I say make a move for another player. That move could also spark Josh Smith into wanting to stay with the Hawks. I know we aren’t going to make any moves because this is the ASG we are talking about but it’s nice to wish for.

By kirknga

July 9, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

Iggy received a qualifying offer from the Sixers so they retain the right to match.

By Andrew

July 9, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

sorry my computer is being dumb only meant to send that once

By Joe

July 9, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

Anyone have an update on David Andersson?

I thought that that was one good thing that Billy Kn*ght may have done before leaving, but it seems to have died down now.

Any chance he finally shows up in Atlanta?

By ray

July 10, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this

Volman, don’t worry. This is the summer blahs. It was like this last year, remember? Once some games start getting played, it’ll all be good.

Kirk, looks like you found somebody else to play with. Or should I say they found you. Well, besides Sautee. You must really enjoy the game of read, cut out, paste, then retort. Oh well, we all must entertain ourselves somehow, LOL!

I still disagree with you on the ASG, but that is merely our mutual rights to simply choose how and why we feel the way we do, individually. Nobody’s opinion on this blog will have anything to do with the direction of this franchise, so it’s kind of like a bunch of useless wars. To be bluntly honest, I hope your unquestioning faith is well placed (I prefer more substantial proof, myself). If it is, then there is reason to rejoice. And then of course, you get blog bragging rights, saying you knew all along (or at least believed)…for whatever that is worth. If not, then there is no reason to rejoice at all, not even in having guessed things are what they might seem to be. It’s kind of like flipping a coin and saying “heads you win, tails I lose”. As I said, here’s to hoping your faith is well-placed.

Well, we can expect more of this type of dialogue (just like every summer) until some games get played. I don’t think anybody relishes this time of year. It’s when the cold, hard business side comes back to light, and the entertainment, passionate, competitive side goes far to the back burner. What fan likes that? Don’t answer that. But seriously, when you hear the NBA slogan “I love this game”, you know this isn’t the part of the real and overall game that they’re talking about….

Don’t always believe the hype is something I can agree with. I think in the Patriots’ case though, you’re seeing more of the “Any Given Sunday” thing going on, with a little poetic justice mixed in…I mean, they were undefeated up until the last game, were they not? Talk about the absolute worst time to lose…those guys just about had it in the bag….but “Any Given Sunday”…it can get anybody, anytime. Like Murphy’s Law or something. I never dislike the Patriots or give a damn about the “hype” because they were indeed good, and except for that one game, they were better than anyone else (well, except for their SpyGate caper, which raises questions of just how good were they). Their loss just wasn’t so satisfying to me, though…I just don’t like the Giants…

By SalimFan

July 10, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

The Sixers may win more but they’re not going to become more up-tempo with Elton Brand. Rodney Carney gave the Hawks fits when we played Philidelphia late in the season. He’s a guy I wouldn’t mind snatching away from Minnesota.

Without Carney, that really puts a choke-hold on thir running game. Having Brand means that Philly is going to play right into Boston, Detroit, and Clevelands hands. These teams love demoralizing their opponets in the half-court. Simply having Brand won’t be enough, and he usually gets his points in half-court sets.

With that being said….Phlilly will be more versitile, being able to execute in the half-court when their run get’s shut down.

Someone mentioned the J.J Redick situation. I agree that he’s done in Orlando. If we asked i’m sure the Magic wouldn’t have a problem buying out his contract. He’s 6’4 but i’m not sure about his defense.

I’m not sure I understand what Sekou is referring to when he talked about cap restrictions concerning the Joshes’. What is stopping us from signing anyone else bofore them? Wouldn’t that be bad?? Were not going to have any money left after signing the joshes’.

By kirknga

July 10, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

According to aussiebasll.com:

**David Andersen has placed a remarkable $5 million price tag on himself to join the NBA next season.

“Atlanta have got to come to the ball game a bit, I don’t want to be taking a massive pay cut just to go to the NBA,” Andersen said. “If they can come to the ball game a bit, obviously I’ll be going there.”

Andersen said Australia’s only NBA player, Andrew Bogut, was always trying to coax him to the US.

Andersen, who turns 28 on Monday, also wants to test himself in the NBA.

But his salary demand is also insurance that he gets to play a strong role with the Hawks.**

So maybe he’s coming as soon as the situation id resolved with Smith and Childress.

By ray

July 10, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

Joe, he signed up with another team in Europe. Wasn’t ready to hitch my wagon to him, but I think he would’ve helped.

Tell you what, there’s a few things I’m looking for in this upcoming Rocky Mountain Revue. Besides hoping to see Law tearing it up, I want to see what Solomon has done to improve his game. Has he added any bulk/muscle? What about his footwork on both ends of the court? If he’s going to remain a not-so-big guy, then he has to learn good positioning. After all, Jermain O’Neal and Chris Bosh (and Kevin Garnett) are all guys that don’t weigh a whole lot, but they are fairly strong for their weight class and know how to position themselves and take advantage of their athletic ability. Also, I hope he’s really worked on his offensive game. That always helps, and keeps you in the game longer. Bench scoring is important. We have had a bench that struggles mightily to score.

I’m curious about Brian Butch. Thing is, last time we had a player like this, he hardly played and then just kinda faded away. I don’t even recall when he ended up leaving the team. Oh, his name was Matt Freije. Yep, a 6’9”-6’10” guy who could shoot from the outside. It’ll be interesting to see how he fares in the summer league. But…he’s a youngster. May not get much contribution from him considering Woody is the coach, even if he makes the squad. He’s going to have to find a way to really make an impact. Of course, all of the invitees who aren’t already on the team will face the same daunting task.

I would’ve liked to have seen us get Pietrus, James Jones, or Roger Mason. Maybe we still have a shot at guys like Jarvis Hayes. I never saw us getting any of the bigger name free agents. That’s just silly. But these shooters are just flying off the shelves. Maybe we can do a trade and get one.

By ray

July 10, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

I could’ve sworn Andersen already signed a contract with somebody else….perhaps I read wrong.

SalimFan, I kinda get the feeling that adding Brand has a reverse effect. It wasn’t like adding Shaq to Phoenix. We know Phoenix was all about run, run, run. They got Shaq because the overreacted to the Lakers signing Gasol and they know San Antonio has been their nemesis as well. That, and Amare Stoudamire has never wanted to play center. They wanted to win. In Philadelphia, I think the best idea is to set Brand up (remember, he’s a 20 and 10 guy…guaranteed) and then run each chance they get, rather than run like crazy, then expect Brand to bail them out when the running game is out of gas. I don’t know. I just kind of see them changing it on the fly as they have to. That’s sort of how San Antonio plays. They can kill you in the half court, but they will run you up and down the court if they see the opportunity. Either way, they are instantly better. Eastern Conference Finals better? Maybe.

By kirknga

July 10, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

Kirk, looks like you found somebody else to play

I’m sorry ray it must have bothered you that I have said anything to you.

So now I have, are you happy? I will talk with anyone, I’m not one of those who always talk to the same few people blog after blog.

Yes, I enjoy talking with anyone who wants to talk basketball, or something sports-related. That includes Sautee and everyone else I have talked with today.

see, you like drama and so you say things like…You must really enjoy the game of read, cut out, paste, then retort. Oh well, we all must entertain ourselves somehow, LOL!

Non sports-related stuff.

I mean, what is that about? And why just up out of the blue would you come with something like that?

I’m not a low information sports fan so if I can find information with a click or two, I do it.

If that’s a problem for some people, so be it. I’m going to do my little thing and be happy.

But it’s a plaeasure hearing from you again ray

By MannyT

July 10, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

Good luck Matt. From what I understand all that knocking won’t be you losing your marbles, just the machine doing its thing ;-)

I would post this 5 times in a row, but it seems that several others have gotten the hang of Groundhog Day

I have posted this about 5 times on different days here.

David Andersen will take the Euro over the dollar. He will make more money to play less games against easier competition.

1 Euro is worth about $1.50-1.60 US. His money there is net (after taxes) and he probably gets some other benefits that are not allowed here. In Moscow he got an apartment and a driver.

Speaking of Eurobasketball, the top women make their real money there due to similar circumstances…and they pay more for Women’s hoops.

How about the Dream…on a streak of 2

Might part of the RFA gridlock be similar to the regular free agent gridlock. Until the top RFA (Josh) gets his value set, why bother with the other guys and overpay? Josh doesn’t get his number until the big time unrestricted folks get their deals done. Who wants to miss out on plan B if your plan A guy holds your offer for a week before his team says, we will match!

I think you could sign your MLE guy first, but there could be a concern that the Joshes new deals will take the ASG over the REAL budget number. If that happens, maybe they prefer to go after the value center instead of the main target.

Groundhog day PAIN is repetitive ;-)

By kirknga

July 10, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

From the Sydney Morning Hearld:

After Beijing, Andersen has committed to spending the coming season with Barcelona.

But he has an out-clause in his contract to join Atlanta if they are prepared to match the multi-million dollar deal he has signed in Italy.

“I’ll be with Barcelona after the completion of the Olympic Games,” he said.

*”If Atlanta comes to the plate, I do have NBA out-clauses with my contract and I could go there after my first or second year.” *

By SalimFan

July 10, 2008 1:13 AM | Link to this

MannyT, Thanks for the PAINful explanation.

Ray, I see what you’re saying. Oppourtunistic running. It defenetly works, most of the big dog’s in both confrences do it. Especially with a coach like Mo Cheeks he knows what to do.

Eastern Confrence Finals? That’s tough. Something tells me that the East is coing to be crap shoot this year. Any team can come out on top. Boston got their title, so I seriously doubt they’ll have that fire next season….seeing as they barely made it there in one piece. Orlando keeps getting beter (I wanna see them play philly in the playoffs) Washington’ done but Cleveland might add some new pieces. I really thin Trevor Ariza(FA) wouls work well along side LeBron.

As for the Hawks. I say we sign Hayes and Delfino. They are both big SF’s who shoot well and play great defense. Give them one two year contracts. Alongside the josh’s they’ll instantly make us better and there stock will rise.

*(Disclaimer) This is Fictional*

Then in 2010 we do a sign and trade and give them both up for LeBron (1st round pick may be necessary). Them Marvin can come off the bench. It’s genius. It’ll be easy to sell to LeBron, he gets to play with JJ, Bibby(maybe), Horford and the Joshes. Can you say title. Besides with all the money Bron-Bron makes from Nike and Vitamin Water commercials he doesn’t REALLY NEED a big NBA contract……..that is, if he really wnats to WIN an TITLE.

……okay it’s never going to happen but it’s fun to dream.

By MannyT

July 10, 2008 1:56 AM | Link to this

kirknga pull out a calculator in place of the quotalator for a minute.

For Atlanta to come to the plate they have to overcome the strength of the Euro, the net pay Euro contract, and give a guy that just turned 28 and never played in the NBA a role that would make him want to come here to play for Woody!

Someone will have to pony up for a significant contract. Slide a little Babcock sauce on that deal. BK was here, but he was not the GM when Andersen was drafted. Sund has no reason to be loyal to Andersen.

The chances of seeing Andersen in a Hawks uniform are quite small.

If I were David’s agent, I’d make sure he understood that the good CRAP in his favour, resides in the Euroleagues.

By ray

July 10, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this

Let’s play the kirk game for a minute:

I’m sorry ray it must have bothered you that I have said anything to you.

Huh? Why would you saying anything to me actually bother me? If it did, I wouldn’t reply. Are you doing that 3 and a half blogs thing again? You naughty little feller, you.

So now I have, are you happy? I will talk with anyone, I’m not one of those who always talk to the same few people blog after blog.

Um, still a bit confused. Something is not matching up contextually here. Am I supposed to be bothered or happy?

see, you like drama and so you say things like…You must really enjoy the game of read, cut out, paste, then retort. Oh well, we all must entertain ourselves somehow, LOL!

Wow, dude. For somebody who claims not to take things (or himself) so seriously…gee, if that ain’t the picture of seriousness and offended dignity. I’m trying not to laugh…but it ain’t working. I thought we’d already established the part about drama. By the way, you know that channel on cable/satellite called TNT? On their commercials, they say “we know drama”. Better skip that one, bud. Might give you the fits something fierce….

Non sports-related stuff.

Hotdogit! I do keep forgetting that this is a ground rule for you. Sorry! But the funny thing is…the vast majority of my post was sports related, if opinionated. Maybe you didn’t like it because I didn’t agree with everything you said.

I mean, what is that about? And why just up out of the blue would you come with something like that?

Uh, it’s about my amusement at your “modus operandi”. I’m sorry if it makes you mad that your methods amuse me (it’s almost like you just can’t talk sometimes without the cut and paste thing- I swear it’s not a derisive form of amusement. It’s just plain mildly funny). Out of the blue? Because it’s funny to me. And because out of the blue, you seemed to be at it with whoever this new Tyrell (I thought it was Terrell at first) guy…and Sautee. The minute there seemed a difference of opinion…cut, paste, retort! Like clock-work. Yes, sometimes I’m easily amused. By the simplest of things. Get my drift?

I’m not a low information sports fan so if I can find information with a click or two, I do it.

Join the crowd. What was that all about, anyway? Did somebody call you a low information sports fan? How dare they! Oh, wait. I don’t remember anybody calling you that. Hmmm. What was that all about again?

But it’s a plaeasure hearing from you again ray

Why thank you sir! It was even better hearing back from you! In your own peculiar way no less.

By the way, thanks for the info on David Andersen. After he signed the contract over there in Europe, I kinda just wrote him off. That, and he was somebody that Billy Knight talked about. I don’t remember hearing Sund mention the guy at all. I was thinking he was like dear old Cenk Aykol-“out of sight, out of mind.”

Do you think there’s any chance we’ll pursue him? If so, how do you see him fitting into our squad? I watched him play in the Euroleague championships. Wouldn’t mind seeing him play hi-low post with Horford. Both guys have skills. Don’t know how tough he really is. I’ve learned not to judge too far one way or another with some of the guys playing over seas.

By ray

July 10, 2008 2:34 AM | Link to this

Well Manny, that’s no way to stamp on a man’s dreams!

It would speak volumes if Gearon,Sr and crew were to allow or get Sund to make a push in that direction. It would speak volumes if they did not. We’ll see. In the meantime….

I’m with SalimFan, who says we should get Delfino or Hayes. We do need a shooter. Preferrably not somebody we pick up in the summer leagues…but rather somebody whom Woody would actually play. Hayes and Delfino are both veterans. Are they both RFAs? I am sure Delfino is.

SalimFan, the East could be a crapshoot, but teams are getting a bit better than they were with several guys coming east. Not all of them are big names like Brand, but no one can discount the addition of Pietrus to Orlando, and James Jones to Miami. Miami won’t be knocking everybody around, but adding a veteran shooter helps. A healthy Wade and Marion are dangerous as heck. Mario Chalmers is looking goooood so far….but it IS summer league…

If O’Neal and Bosh are healthy, look out. Toronto still has Calderon, and a few pieces here and there…VOILA! Contender. Unless Detroit can make some serious moves in the trade market (and I think they will), I look for them to slip in the east. They had a rough time against the Sixers, who will be better this year. Indiana will struggle. But then, with Ford at the helm (if he stays healthy), they may not struggle all that badly. Who knows if the Cavs will actually get anything worthwhile done in trade. They need to. Lebron’s not going to put up with this forever…

By SalimFan

July 10, 2008 2:55 AM | Link to this

No ray people don’t say riddle me this and immediately say the answer, I’ve never seen that done. Ever.

Yes they do!!! I do it.

…..sorry I was on blog haitus……

also LOL @ Smarmy ray..that’s a new one for me.

Now you guys play nice or the patrol force will come out and play……..lol

Kirk lighten up……you keep saying it’s just a blog but by the way you’re posting, I see otherwise. You’re taking the court jester(Ray) way too seriously. I think he’s getting to you…..it could be all that Dark Karma Bwahahahahaha.

MannyT, Nice find with those Attendance Stats.

By tyrell

July 7, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

some interesting SPECIFIC stats for those who worry about josh smith’s turnovers effect on the game and such.

Career averages of two well known unquestioned all star small forwards who can actually dribble and all that. alongside josh smith career numbers.

lebron james: 27.3ppg, 6.9rpg, 6.6apg, 1.8spg, .8bpg, 3.32 turnovers, 47%fg, 32% 3-pointers

carmelo anthony: 24.4ppg, 6.0rpg, 3.0apg, 1.1spg, .4bpg, 3.1 turnovers, 46%fg, 29% 3-pointers

josh smith: 13.6ppg, 7.4rpg, 2.7apg, 1.1spg, 2.5bpg, 2.5 turnovers, 45%fg, 26% 3-pointers

lebron is the best player. both guys score more as the featured scorers on their teams. josh is not even the featured scorer. the things to notice are the career turnovers, the field goal percentages, and the 3 point shooting. josh isn’t that bad, even though he is not an all star.

That’s a big STFU to all the haters out there.

By SalimFan

July 10, 2008 3:02 AM | Link to this

I completely forgot about Toronto….OUCH. Assuming the Hawks keep the Josh’s get Kwame and some Vet shooters (that Woody Will play). I’m going to really enjoy the East next season.

By SalimFan

July 10, 2008 3:09 AM | Link to this

Ray, I think Kirk meant “Haven’t said” lol.

Try it out hahahaha.

By SalimFan

July 10, 2008 3:19 AM | Link to this

Ray, Jarvis Hayes and Delfino are both Unrestricted Free Agents…..So is Mo Evans (just in case those two get swooped up while the ASG is on vacation)

By ray

July 10, 2008 3:24 AM | Link to this

Salimfan, I know he did, but that makes it all the more fun. How can you not poke at a stoic?

I keep trying to get him to prove that he’s not taking anything seriously (as he says) and that this is all just fun, but he seems determined to put the lie to that very statement. And none of this is maliciously intended, though you’d think I was trying to crucify him, the way he acts. Do you think he ever saw any of my silly “todays news” headlines? Surely then he’d know I’m not serious….

That was some interesting stuff tyrell put out. Of course, it’s all been put out before, but I notice nobody (myself included) responded to it much…I guess we’re all tired of arguing stats and the interpretation thereof. You can use statistics to prove any argument if you try hard enough.

Kirk, why do I keep seeing you crying about people “giving you hell” about your views? I don’t think anybody has ever posted here a few times that didn’t catch some kind of “hell” from somebody. Good thing Ando hasn’t gotten ahold of you. You wouldn’t be able to cut and paste all the stuff HE can write. It would take you 3 days of cut and paste…and that’s before you could insert your replies! Climb down off the cross, brother. I’m sure we can find a better use for the wood. Hee hee!

By ray

July 10, 2008 3:32 AM | Link to this

Salimfan, yeah, that whole “riddle me this” thing had me about to fall out. Wow. That was one of the most funny and outlandish things I’ve heard in a minute. I started to ask him if he took a world wide poll to make sure that nobody has ever said that, seeing as how his statement was an “absolute” statement. I will no doubt be accused of creating drama again. Guilty as charged, but I ask you: just how effective is a jester in this situation without a reliable foil, eh? mischievous chuckle

By SalimFan

July 10, 2008 3:50 AM | Link to this

I kind of figured that’s what you were doing but I had to make sure (Tries to contain laughter).

LOL, Well if Mr.Kirk’s been snooping around these parts as long as he claims he has, then he defently should have seen your Daily Headline Dews……Right Kirk???

If you haven’t you should back-log when you have some free time. it’s some of the funniest stuff you’ll ever read on these blogs.

As far as Tyrell’s stats are concerned. Yes you can use them to prove almost anything (or shut-up annoying attackers tying to discredit my greatness ha) as i’ve done plenty of times in my many debates on Salim Stoudamire Hehehe. That’s probably why when someone posts stats it always catches my lol. That includes the king on number-crunching himself MannyT lol.

By SalimFan

July 10, 2008 4:03 AM | Link to this

LOL I was thinking the same thing as far as the poll was concerned when I first read that. Foil Indeed, and you defently let him off the hook with that one lol.

By jc_dawgs

July 10, 2008 4:44 AM | Link to this

You keep these guys together and they will only get better.

Just two pieces of the puzzle are missing though…and that is a good center(not sold on Za Za) and a 3 pt presence with experience off of the bench.

Do that…and this team is a contendor.

By glw

July 10, 2008 6:22 AM | Link to this

just read where the Clippers cleared some salary cap space, renouncing Livingston and others, so that got to be ready to make a move on someone….Smith? I hope they pass on him and maybe go after someone like Okafor. I guess we have to sweat it out again.

By RAD

July 10, 2008 6:58 AM | Link to this

An update from LA …. Looks like Josh is #1 on their radar.

Baron Davis signs his $65-million deal with Clippers. Team is meeting with free agent Josh Smith and has made contact with Emeka Okafor. July 10, 2008

How quickly they move on.

Point guard Baron Davis signed his five-year, $65-million contract with the Clippers on Wednesday night, the same day the Philadelphia 76ers officially announced their union with Elton Brand.

On the Clippers’ radar Reasons debated as Elton Brand leaves…Truth was inconvenient for Elton Brand How the Clippers got left behind at Brand central station Clippers fans figure to call Brand out Davis, a two-time All-Star, gives the team what it needed heading into the off-season, a proven point guard. Now, they turn to fill the void left by Brand at power forward.

To that end, Clippers Coach Mike Dunleavy went to dinner with Atlanta Hawks restricted free-agent forward Josh Smith and Brian Dyke, one of his agents.

The 6-foot-9 Smith, 22, averaged 17.2 points and 2.8 blocks last season. He quickly ascends to the top of the Clippers’ wish list of players to replace Brand.

The Hawks, however, can match any offer made to him, therefore retaining his services.

The Clippers have also made preliminary contact with Charlotte Bobcats forward Emeka Okafor, who is also a restricted free agent, according to NBA sources who requested anonymity because they are not authorized to talk about player movements.

Okafor averaged 13.8 points and 10.7 rebounds last season.

To clear salary cap space, the Clippers renounced their rights to point guards Shaun Livingston, Smush Parker and Dan Dickau and former Clippers Boniface Ndong and James Singleton.

The moves do not mean that the players cannot be re-signed.

By tyrell

July 10, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

the clippers want a power forward but the question is do they want a guy who can play power forward and center or a guy who can play both forward positions. they do not need a center if kaman is healthy. if he is not staying healthy then okafor makes more sense because he can move to center. okafor is not so great on offense though and probably not as good at scoring on the block as kaman. do they want to put two guys like that in the starting rotation. smith at least can shoot from the outside some and scores more and will get better. also he runs much better and is less injury prone than okafor. he can slash to the basket which okafor does not do. both he and kaman have to get their points in the paint but josh does not.

do the clippers really want two slower half court guys out their with baron davis. i dont think so. unless theyre worried about insurance for kaman if he gets hurt i say they rather have josh smith if his talks go well with mike dunleavy. one more thing to think about as both players are young and have been in the nba the same amount of time. okafor rejected a 50 million dollar offer while smith rejected a 45 million dollar offer. this might tell from the get go which guy will cost more. i hope they choose okafor but how much sense does it really make to do that. hes steady and mature but does not have joshs upside versatility and durability. either way the clippers mean business because look at how many players they cut loose for cap space.

kirknga must work for the atlanta spirit group. not one single good thing to say about any of the players but everything good to say about the owners. but everybody else is wrong for being so negative and need to get behind the team. you would think it was the atlanta spirit people taking the floor and not the players the way he talks. i looked back at all of his posts that i could find and yep not one positive thing to say about a single hawks player. only that its the players fault just as much or more as the owners that they dont have a contract right now. yea i think a fan of the bosses not of the team. instead of manning up he will only try to pick your post apart and ridicule you. what a company man. they should give him a raise for saying that the owners are smart and doing everything right. good luck with that raise you sure earned it here.

By doc

July 10, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

it will be interesting to see the thoughts and comments of those who have no real concerns and say management is moving just as it should in a very business like manner if somehow josh falls through the cracks or we give away chill and get nothing in return. we have seen it too many times to not expect history to repeat itself. maybe luck will win out or not. next move appears to be the clips as the ball is in their court. no matter what, we will be here as quitters are losers.

By doc

July 10, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

okafor might be a better fit here than in clippers land. i wonder if sund is spending some time chatting with his agent? he would be a nice replacement part for smoove, no?

By terrell barron

July 10, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

I would’nt mind seeing Livingston in a Hawks uni, if he’s healthy. He should come fairly cheap.

By ILL-Logical

July 10, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

First, Okafor is not a true center and he is not 6’ 10”; that is one reason he is always hurt: he is playing out of position! This is why the ASGP is playing with fire keeping Al at the 5 for any length of time.

Second, signing Kwame and Jarvis Hayes should be a priority because while most of the league has written Kwame off as a chronic underachiever, he can become an effective 20 minute a game 5 who can run the floor,bang and certainly has as much talent as Kendrick Perkins at a reasonable price.Jarvis is a flat out solid shooter with size range and can play defense. I believe he can prove Thomas Wolfe wrong.

Third, and prehaps most importantly, any and all moves have to considered in terms of the eventual resolution of the legal matters surounding the franchises’ ownership. In that context, nothing is set in stone.

By Mitch

July 10, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Curious about a possible sign and trade with the Bobcats: The Hawks send F Josh Smith to the Bobcats for C Emeka Okafor and G Matt Carroll.

Why the trade works for the Bobcats: first of all, they have hinted at the possibility of including Okafor in a sign and trade deal. Secondly, they have depth at center with Nazr Muhammed, Sean May and draft pick Alexis Ajinca. Thirdly, in drafting G D.J. Augustin, they could open up their style and go up tempo and who better to add for that style than Josh Smith?

Why the trade works for the Hawks: with a legitmate offensive and defensive center in Okeafor, the Hawks can move Al Horford to PF, where he could best utilize his excellent talents. The Hawks need to improve their half-court game and by adding a post presence in Okafor, having Horford face the basket on the baseline or high post, having a good intermediate shooter in Marvin, a great playmaker in JJ, a good slasher in Chills, and adding a three point threat off the bench in Carroll, to go with Bibby and Law, the half court offense would be majorly upgraded…as would the defense with Okafor in the middle and Horford at PF.

By fudd21

July 10, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Astro Deng, Iggy, Oak, and Gordon all turned down 50+ million contracts last year. I believe the only teams that have the cap room to offer them something in that range are Clippers and Grizzlies. The Grizzlies aren’t trying to bring anyone in and the Clippers, since Brand left are looking for a PF. There has been talk they are looking at Oak and Josh.

As for Josh I think there was so much talk because teams felt the Hawks wouldn’t match a big offer. Right now I’m curious as to if the Clips don’t make an offer will Josh sign an extension or just play for the one year and become unrestricted.

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 10, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

“with a legitmate offensive and defensive center in Okeafor”

Not only has the 6’10” Okafor never been a legitimate offensive center, but Josh Smith duplicates everything the Bobcats already have in Gerald Wallace. That trade wouldn’t work for either team.

By Mikeal

July 10, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

It look like the Clippers are gearing up to make a max contract offer. They should have the cap space and perhaps throw in a nice big signing bonus on top of that. With them renouncing Livingston they clear $13 million in cap space along.

Is Josh Smith worth the max? That is easy to answer and it is a big NO. Hawks are screwed either way now. They will not be able to keep Chill or make any key FA signing if they match.

Long term it really hurts the Hawks because Smith is not a max player or franchise player. He is just a nice 2nd option that many fans in Atl have tried to hype up to repalce Michael Vick or Dominique Wilkins as the sporty icon of the city.

By DaKast

July 10, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

It seems like a lot of people on this blog are not very happy with the Hawks resigning Mike Woodson. I frankly believe Mike Woodson is the right coach for this team. Since his arrival in 2004, the Hawks have won on average 8 more games than they did the previous year (taking into consideration the horrible teams his been given). He understands that great offensive philosophies don’t win championships (see Don Nelson /Mike D’Antoni); instead tough on ball and team defensive wins championships. So if the Hawks retain J. Smith and J. Childress and maintain their core nucleus, I expect the Hawks and Coach Woodson to have at least 45 wins in the 2008-2009 season. It would be great if we could lure Okafor from the Bobcats, however, it would be at the expensive of losing Speedy and Marvin (whom I actually like).

Also, since we are in dire need of a perimeter shooter, how about trading Speedy to Houston for a good shooter like Luther Head, and the expiring contract of Steve Francis. This also gives us depth at the shooting guard position.

By kgbsfinst

July 10, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Do you know if we can afford to go after Okafor? Biedrins? Posey? What about Kwame Brown, or even Livingston? We wont know until we sign, or at least make a decision on, the Joshes. For everyone preaching patience, every day that goes by, we will lose a chance at another piece of the puzzle. I would rather overpay Smith by 1 mil a year(or around that) and still get Posey, or a quality big, than wait and have to pick through the leftovers.

By Brian

July 10, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

I think it’s a little naive to assume that getting both Joshes back is a formality. Writing off the Clippers because they’re the Clippers is utter foolishness. Their money is just as green as Philly’s. Now, they have not shown any interest in Josh Smith yet, so it’s certainly a better situation than before since Philly had shown strong interest in Smith, but the Clips are now looking for a power forward and I think Josh Smith has to be at the top of their radar. We can always match, but then again we could always have matched Philly’s offer too. I believe LA has the cap space to make an outrageous offer that we would not want to match, just like Philly did.

By Melvin

July 10, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Well I just hope the Clips, Grizz or whatever team that can offer Jsmoove a max contract or something close to the max do so. The BASG is on record saying they will match contracts for both Joshes. Let’s see if they are men of their words.

It was asinine for the BASG to allow their competitors to set the market for their RFA anyway. Very astute that ASG is…

By RAD

July 10, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Everyone seems to be comfortable that the ASG will match any offer for Josh Smith. Remember .. they can match the offer and turn around and trade him. Then the ASG could come back and say that they matched the offer sheet just as they promised. I’ve said from the beginning of this thing that if Woody stays as the Hawk’s coach then Josh will go somewhere. Let’s see .. if I’m 22 years old and a rising star in the NBA, do I want to play in LA for Mike Dunleavy or do I want to come back to Atlanta and play for Mike Woodson? Look for the Smith/Woodson conflict to come out before this thing is over. It’s not going away even if Josh stays in Atlanta. Let’s just trade Woody for Dunleavy!

By terrell barron

July 10, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

Mitch, YOU DONT TRADE WITHIN YOUR OWN DIVISION. Especially with one of your best players. That’s ridiculous!

By fudd21

July 10, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Brian Uh Josh had dinner with Dunleavy. That might not be showing interest in your eyes, but in mine it definitely is.

Ray You commented no one had responded to Tyrell comment so I will. I believe when you are comparing the turnover rates (and I’m speaking strictly of turnovers) you are comparing apples and oranges when comparing those 3 players. You are talking about 2 (Lebron and Melo) who have been the primary scorers for their team throughout their careers (Yes, Melo shares that now with AI). Every possession runs through them. The ball is constantly in their hands and they have the task of making the decisions/passes to generate offense. Many times out of double and triple teams. Josh on the other hand has not been our primary scorer and therefore doesn’t get as many touches as though 2 and rarely have I seen him double teamed. Heck until this year (Ray, Salim, Manny someone correct me) I don’t remember many plays being run for him.

So to compare turnover rates of 2 people that have probably touched the ball twice as much as Josh I dont feel is a fair comparison.

By Samuel

July 10, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

What’s so great about Mike Dunleavy? The Clippers have missed the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 seasons.

By Melvin

July 10, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

I read somewhere that the Hornets are talking to Posey and Jarvis Hayes. No way Boston let Posey go. So let’s how long it would be for us to cross out Jarvis on our wish list.

Just great, let the business savvy ASG continue to wait on another team to offer the Joshes a contract before they match and sign other free agents. I’m sure their competitors would be fair an leave some quality FA unsigned.

By Jim

July 10, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Yep, Smith is young and does some exciting things but his performance isn’t dependable. Check his Field Goal stats—not good. But whose is—besides maybe Childress.

By RAD

July 10, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

I don’t that there is anything great about Dunleavy but my point was that Josh Smith won’t play for WOODSON.

By DAP01

July 10, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

SIMPLE: Sign both RFA, sign Hayes, Brown.

Come on ASG, be proactive. Give us some sign that you have a plan. Because after years of rebuilding, there is NO SIGN.

Portland is in a rebuilding phase and NO ONE queastions if they have a plan.

By travis

July 10, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

sam the HAWKS have missed the playoffs 8 of the last 9 yrs.

Has anyone heard ANYTHING that the hawks are doing? man what is taking them so long to do SOMETHING?

Every summer, it is the same thing on the hawks front, NOTHING.

If no one picks up the Joshes, what contract will the hawks offer them?

The hawks make it hard for people to support them…

By Sautee

July 10, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Samuel

What’s so great about Mike Dunleavy? The Clippers have missed the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 seasons.

Sam, I’ m no Dunleavy lover, he’s OK not great, but I’ll have to point out that your boy Rick missed the playoffs 6 of the past 7 seasons. Not hatin’, just sayin’ ;-)

So let somebody else have Dunleavy for their boy.

By Volman

July 10, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

DAP01, come on now…be reasonable.

I don’t remember how having a bad team and getting LUCKY via the lottery and landing Greg Oden and Lamarcus Aldridge in two drafts is a “plan”.

Granted, they have done some trades to get good talent, but I don’t think they have signed any big time free agents…

tell me, where are their big free agent signings??

It looks like they’ve drafted very, very well.

Being “proactive” is not always the SMARTEST thing. So many people love to throw around that word because it sounds soooo smart. There are times where you need to wait, and times to be proactive. It’s time to wait and see.

By Samuel

July 10, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

You’re screaming for a guy who just came off a .280 year. Come on. At least give me somebody on a roll. Sure he didn’t have Brand but .280.

Travis, was Woodson the coach those 9 years? He has improved every year and finished the season taking the eventual NBA Champs farther than any other coach could do. Your boy Dunleavy is comming off a 28 freekin percent clip.

At least Woody is improving.

By Samuel

July 10, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

RAD,

He played pretty dam_ good during the playoffs this year. But of course Woodson had nothing to do with that. They did it in spite of Woody. Yea.

By travis

July 10, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

sam don’t get me wrong, i am a hawks fan and season tix holder. i am frustrated with the lack of activity that is going on with the organization.

mark my word, they will not improved by 8 games this year. they won’t win 40 games. have you noticed how tuff the east has become?

do you remember the hawks last 3 games of the season? they folded up tent and if indy hadn’t lost, we wouldn’t have taken boston nowhere

By RealSquawk

July 10, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Woah Samuel I would not so hastily give Woody the credit for taking Boston to 7 games

if anything it was the players and their response to the home atmosphere..

for me honestly coaching has nothing to do with that

so yeah Woody was on a team that took Boston to 7 games, but looked like a team that hold no business in the playoffs for four of those games

On the management side unless Josh Smith and Childress asked to go out and test the market I think that they should put some type of offer on the table… They might just save themselves so money by doing that… just make sure they have the understanding that they are willing to work

By RealSquawk

July 10, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Woah Samuel I would not so hastily give Woody the credit for taking Boston to 7 games

if anything it was the players and their response to the home atmosphere..

for me honestly coaching has nothing to do with that

so yeah Woody was on a team that took Boston to 7 games, but looked like a team that hold no business in the playoffs for four of those games

On the management side unless Josh Smith and Childress asked to go out and test the market I think that they should put some type of offer on the table… They might just save themselves so money by doing that… just make sure they have the understanding that they are willing to work

By cp

July 10, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Like I said in a earlier post, other teams are improving and we are waiting. At this rate the only type of free agents we will be able to get will be the likes of when we had Kenny Anderson and Kevin Willis. The shooters list is getting shorter and the Big man list is also. I think Kwame was working out with the Bucks so he might be signing somewhere soon. I guess we will pick up some guys from the summer league or NBDL. Making the playoffs next year is looking harder and harder.

By Melvin

July 10, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

Ditto, CP and RealSquawk.

How come the Hawks aren’t trying to sign other FA’s at this time? I can understand them waiting to match any contract offers for the Joshes (however, I don’t agree with that decision).

Others teams such as Philly & GS have RFA’s and they have been active in signing other FA’s….

By Dr. De

July 10, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Here is a possible trade. Atlanta trades Bibby,Speedy and a 2010 draft pick to the Knicks for Starbury and David Lee. NY get another point to play Dantoni’s offence. The money works. The hawks get the inside presence we need. Marbury gets a final chance. Any thoughts?

By ray

July 10, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

fudd21, I agree. That’s exactly why I followed the statement up by saying that you can use statistics to support just about any argument or point you can come up with. It’s definitely apples and oranges. Again, a person could say the exact opposite of what tyrell said or something else entirely. All they have to do is find the numbers that fit the argument. Now, whether you can use those numbers to effectively convince somebody that your point of view is the correct one is another story altogether. I was just surprised that nobody either agreed or disagreed. Usually a statistics battle ensues….(and those can be so tiresome sometimes).

Volman, I think sometimes it’s easy to mistake proactivity for aggression and vice versa. Being proactive doesn’t necessarily mean being aggressive all the time. I think that being proactive involves timing more than anything. There’s a time for aggression, there’s a time to wait. The thing that aggravates people is that waiting is not “active.” And it seems like we’ve waited each year for the last 4 years. And the results have been less than pretty. I’m stating facts here, not saying one way or the other what we should be doing right this very minute. I figure the waiting game is going on for the same reason it has each prior year: tight finances. Just a guess, seeing as how no owner (or ridiculously large group thereof) is going to publicize this information. You know, this is kind of like knowing the difference between tactics and strategy. Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do.

Many of us are impatient. It’s no crime. Just how a person feels or reacts. During the season, things move quickly. During the offseason…not so much. This is why we have a blog: so we get vent steam about our lack of patience, which is no doubt borne of a lack of interior and intimate knowledge. Look how quickly we respond to each blog Sekou puts up. Dude gets like 300 hits each time he posts something, and it doesn’t even matter what he says. Although, we are quite grateful for his insightful offerings (except for those few trolls who come here and complain about the blogs that we all get to post on for free…or the people who get all wrapped around the axle anytime somebody says ANYTHING that’s not sports related…or Hawks related…as if there are blog rules for that or something…ridiculous).

As for the Portland TrailBlazers. Yeah, Pritchard has been a draft wizard. When’s the last time you’ve seen a team get the top pick in the draft (a player seen as a franchise cornerstone), the player gets hurt, and the team comprised of nearly ALL young players still manages a .500 record in the WESTERN conference? The Blazers organization is built right from the top down, and I am impressed with them. Paul Allen has the money. He hired Kevin Pritchard, who clearly knows what he’s doing (stole Aldridge and Bayless). He has cleaned that team up (let’s face it, Randolph and Miles are franchise killers-even the Miles part isn’t quite over, but it will be before too very long). They are the best example of a team that is building through the draft and has the advantage of organic growth on it’s side. Why? Because Pritchard filled every position in the lineup. And he even filled the spots behind those. Imagine if that had been done here.

They haven’t signed any big free agents. They don’t need to. Yet. But they will, and Pritchard will pull it off. His boss has the money and the common sense to both hire a true professional…and then get out of the way and let the professional do what he does best. Last but not least, Nate McMillan is a good head coach. His system of accountability for his players is just plain solid and good. Each assistant coach, along with McMillan, is responsible for certain players, and their development. Imagine that. Not heard of in these parts. Either that, or we really like playing “secret squirrel” around here.

Look, I’m not a Blazer fan. But I see a very solid base for a very solid organization over there. I got no problem with Sund. I don’t think he’s been here long enough to be able to show us what he’s all about. It’s his bosses that worry me. I mean…these guys were going to hire freakin’ former video intern Chris Grant, until he probably said something like: “Okay, I’ll take the job. But you gotta pay me $1 million a year, and let me fire Woody as soon as I get there.” Laugh if you want to. That’s probably what he said. Heh!

*In the meantime, what I would like to see more than anything else is Woody trusting and bonding with his players. Not just JJ and Bibby. Not just his veterans. ALL of these guys. If he does that, he will stop his crazy substitution patterns (or lack thereof), guys will play with more confidence, and they will be a more cohesive group. A cohesive group overcomes a ton of obstacles. Does it take some effort on the part of the players? You bet. But who’s the leader here? Woodson. And his staff. True leadership is always by example (among other things of course). He needs to reach out to them. Then if you have bad apples that are resistant…hey, get rid of them. Doesn’t matter who it is. Yes, even the famous Josh Smith (for those of you who would try to throw that up first thing). I’m sure Woody has reached out to them. But….Sometimes reaching out is thinking more about the message received than the message sent. *

By doc

July 10, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

samuel, a lot of the energy and motivation for going out and getting a win against the celts in game three came from their rookie horford. he was the one who brought in the tape of none other than muhammed ali showed the film and then afterwards beat on his chest saying “i got mine” to his teammates who followed suit and went out and took on the celts. that wasnt the coach saying essentially to his team, “you know this team isnt world beaters you know” to the press before game 7. i am not sure where all the cred goes but it cant be all woody.

incidentally, the story came first hand from the head scout that has since departed to spend time in detroit . the scout was beside himself with his enthusiasm for horford.

By doc

July 10, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

oh ray, sing it bro. nicely put on many different topics and layers. funny how you dont have to copy and paste to make your own points. let it flow dude.

i am about to fill the void if you arent by getting a portland hat to wear just in case the right way turns out to be the unfulfilling way to add to a roster.

for all those “just relax” postures, the longer that grannies car is stalled the more difficult it is to catch up. guess the ones going so quickly are out of our price range anyway, ya think? so i guess no reason to consider it a loss to lose any sleep over it.

i think we need an IRU to begin to investigate to see if grannie has fallen asleep at the wheel or maybe run out of money for gas. i dont see a flare up to suggest she is lost or had a wreck.

yeaauh manny t, i got an anachronism of my own. can you figure it out?

By doc

July 10, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

the eye candy is for my friend ASTRO JOE:

http://www.asylum.com/2008/02/05/the-50-most-memorable-bedroom-pin-ups-ever/

dont say i never brought anything scintillating to the blog.

my ninja buddy, ole honest abe might be sorry he missed this one.

By terrell barron

July 10, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

Just saw the weirdest thing on Pro Sports Daily. Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia in a sign and trade to Miami for Shawn Marion, (who’s contract expires after next year), and Daquan Cook. Probably wont happen, but if it did we would have over 30 million coming off the books between Marion and Bibby.I would think about that deal, especially if we think we might lose Josh to the Clippers for nothing. Is that a possible trade? Could it happen? Would the money thing work? Someone said they heard it on a Boston radio station. Thoughts?

By HHoops

July 10, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

While we wait for other teams to make a offer to J. Smith and J. Childress, I wish the Hawks would go ahead and make an offer to Jarvis Hayes. Who knows how lond this waiting is going to take. Every owner is counting their money right now to see how much they are willing to spend. The Hawks have not spent any. If we could get J. Hayes in place, that would improve our bench with a shooter that plays tough defense.

Then, after we sign the Joshes, we can decide if we want to make a trade to improve our team that won’t cost anymore money. That can be done I believe. I bet we could trade J. Smith to the Warriors for Biedrins and a future #1 pick. Now Horford can play the 4 and we have J. Hayes to back up Marvin or to put him on the bench!

By doc

July 10, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

even though i am self nominated, i dont see how anyone can take the award of “poster of the year” away from me.

By travis

July 10, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

the bottom feeders Based on what has happened during fa, these are the bottom of the EAST, in no order: Atlanta, Charlotte, New Jersey, Milwaukee, and New Yorkso for all of those people who keep saying…”The Hawks took the Celts 7 games…” Well, that ain’t gonna happen this year!!

What in the lleh are we waiting on? Anyone care to predict how many games you all see us winning this year? I see the same 35games!!

The silver lining Bibby contract will be coming off in 09 thats 14mil. We probably end up with a top 5pick and maybe, just maybe, we can do something!!

I am writing off this year ‘cause the Hawks seem to have done the same thing!!

By terrell barron

July 10, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

I doubt GS gets rid of Biedrens, unless the Lakers dont match the Turiaf signing. And they probably still would’nt.

By Matt

July 11, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Once again, I point out:

1) Bibby will be healthy 2) Acie will be healthy AND is working his a* off to get better 3) Zaza is in a contract year and it sounds like he was reinvigorated by the playoffs 4) Horford, Smoove, J-Chill, and Marvin will all be a year more experienced and a little better 5) JJ is still an All-Star, and will have the benefit of playing a full year alongside a healthy Bibby and an improved Acie

Put all that together, and it’s laughable to say that the Hawks won’t be any better in ‘08-‘09 than they were in ‘07-‘08. The great thing about having a young team is that they ALWAYS can improve, even without FA help.

The only team that took a leap forward this year is Philly.

I’m not impressed at all by Indiana’s moves. Portland reamed them in the Bayless deal. They basically have a trio of good-but-not-great point guards and a bunch of good-but-not-great players.

NY, Chi, and Mia might have added some great rookies, but only Miami has the talent to threaten for the playoffs - and that’s assuming that they can stay healthy. Chicago has perhaps the weakest frontcourt in the league, and without anyone to crash the boards or guard the lane, I don’t see Deng/Gordon/Rose pulling them ahead of the Hawks. When Drew Gooden is your best frontcourt player…

Charlotte, Milwaukee, and NJ? Pleeeeease. NJ has torn down for ‘10; they could lose more than 65 games this year. Milwaukee stood pat on a team that is neither as young nor as talented as the Hawks; Joe Alexander will be a steal come a year or two, but I doubt he’s going to make much of a splash now. Same with Charlotte.

Even among the playoff teams, I don’t see much improvement at the 5 or 6.

Toronto has a solid starting 5 with two stars in the frontcourt (at least when healthy), but have a very thin bench. Like thinner than the Hawks’ bench from this past year. Hibbert is a decent backup center, but he’s not starting material. One injury to Calderon, Bosh, or O’Neal, and they might struggle to make the playoffs - certainly at that point they’d be no better than the Hawks. Two injuries, and it’s Miami Heat ‘07-‘08 redux.

Similarly, the Wizards will have Agent Zero back, but they’re banking on a healthy Big Three meshing together well. I’m not sure that’ll happen. I could see this team either moving up to #3 or sliding down to the edge of the lottery - and I won’t put any money on either side.

So yeah…I really don’t see why people think the Hawks will somehow backslide. They’re an improving young team, and despite the Brand new 76’er, the East is still the East.

By doc

July 11, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

samuel, i know you may not have meant it but it might not be the first time you ignored facts or tried to speak loudest while proving your point while ignoring history. just the same you have said how woody coached the hawks to the point that they played better against all comers in the playoffs against the celts, no?

if you take the time to go back and really analyze and maybe check the numbers the cavs with one less game at home actually out scored the celts in the seven game series where the celts were really on the run and only saved by a huge afternoon of pierce making a name for himself by outgunning the labron kid in the seventh game. know you didnt mean to overlook such achievement but it got in the way of your story i guess. never let truth do that. heh heh

By Gypsyjoe

July 11, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

I have a question about the summer league roster. Sol jones was on the first draft I saw from Sekou. The one put out by the hawks does not have him. I think he could use the playing time. does anybody know what gives??

By travis

July 11, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

matt so where do YOU rank the hawks in the east? how many games do you see them winning next year?

your diatribe made me feel better about the hawks upcoming season, though.

you also pointed out that other teams may have injuries, that goes for us too. if JJ goes down, we are done!!

By kirknga

July 11, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

*Kirk, why do I keep seeing you crying about people “giving you hell” about your views? *

Ray I’m not crying, unlike some here, I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. I’m also not afraid to admit when I was wrong about something,can’t say everyone is like that here either. Like I said, I’m going to do my thing, like I do it, when I feel like doing it.I’m not seeking approval or validation from you or anyone else here.

kirknga must work for the atlanta spirit group. not one single good thing to say about any of the players but everything good to say about the owners. but everybody else is wrong for being so negative and need to get behind the team…..

tyrell It’s ok you disagree with my positions, I just ask that you don’t make up what those positions are please. In return, I’ll do the same for you man.

Anyone can read any of my comments and will see that yes, I think ASG is playing this Smith situation correctly. Have I said it over and over…YES I HAVE! But you know what? People who think that ASG is whacked been saying that over and over too! So what?

Anyway, I have talked about winning, winning with Smith, or without him, I don’t care. I am a fan of the Hawks first, not some player. I don’t believe all this gloom and doom people been talking about is warranted. I just want to win.

I have talked about players, I have talked about the coach. I have asked everyone to calm down and start giving some positive energy towards the team. I said it ore than once tyrell.

So please don’t play me as some okie-doke company man when you just mad that I think organization has done anything to get very upset with.

By SlimDiggity

July 11, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

With all this talk of free agency signings, whatever happened to the Turkish National guy the Hawks drafted some years ago (Cenk Aykol)? I’m currently living in Turkey and often read and have seen this guy play…He’s an icon here. Do the Hawks still own his rights? If so, when is this kid “Coming To America?”

By ray

July 11, 2008 3:31 AM | Link to this

Doc, thanks. And you definitely are poster of the year based on that link alone, LOL! If we don’t hear from Astro Joe for a couple of days, then we know he’s still recovering from having gone to that link and indulged. I know I did…

kirk, do yo thang, baby! Everybody else is doing their thang, too. So true: Some people do expect others to agree with them. Some people can’t admit when they’re wrong. But then, I’ve found such things to be true everywhere I’ve ever been in both the real and virtual worlds. Therefore, no mystery and definitely no surprise on a blog. I know you’re not crying for real (well, at least I hope not). I’m just virtual stick-pokin’. I do believe we should have gotten past the whole “approval” and “validation” thing by now, don’t you think? I mean, you’re not seeking it, and I don’t think anybody is offering it either. Sounds like a happy agreement to me! Well…except for your friend tyrell, who seems to have taken a real shine to you. Fan clubs are great, aren’t they?? Heh, heh!

Hey wait a minute. I thanked you for your info on David Andersen, and then asked your opinion on him/his fit on the team. So what do ya think? (see, I can discuss b-ball related stuff…heh!)

By ray

July 11, 2008 3:56 AM | Link to this

terrell barron, that’s an interesting trade idea. I don’t know if Miami would be cool with it (I’m guessing not) though. The thing about Marion is we’d really have to make some other moves after a trade like that. We’d have to sign another veteran big for starters, as losing Smith and Pachulia messes with our already seriously shaky depth chart. Just acquiring Marion wouldn’t really change the makeup of our starting lineup, other than to add a third shooter. If we acquired him or a player like him, I’d rather see us sign another big as I said, insert said player, and move Marion to the 3. But again, I think Miami has other things in mind when they think of moving Marion, such as acquiring a center. But man, it would be something to have that much money coming off the books, huh? Not sure exactly what we’d do with it…I don’t see us making a big splash in next year’s market though. We generally move too slow to get anything really nice done.

Matt, did everything go okay with your MRI and what not (it was an MRI, wasn’t it?)? That was a pretty good assessment of the Eastern Conference.

I think Orlando will be better this year. They’ve got some good talent and just added Michael Pietrus, who will get to show his worth (or lack thereof) in ways he didn’t always get to in Golden State. I wouldn’t count Milwaukee out of the “got better” crew though. Scott Skiles is going to toughen that team up and make them more disciplined, for one thing. Add Richard Jefferson in place of the disoriented and unhappy Jianlian and the largely ineffective Bobby Simmons, and you have a different outlook. Milwaukee caused us problems (especially Bogut). Imagine Bogut making those beautiful passes to Jefferson, who finishes in a variety of ways. Those two will enjoy playing with each other. Mo Williams is no slouch. And Jefferson has finally warmed to being in Milwaukee. I don’t know just how much better they’ll be, but I think they will present a much better challenge for a playoff spot then they did last season.

I agree especially with your view on Indiana. I’m willing to bet they’ll be trading places with Miami…Jersey won’t be good either, but they might mesh better than expected. However, people are after some of their bigs, and Diop is going back to Texas. We get to see if Washington made a good move with Arenas. I just don’t know about that one….they played better without him last year..

By tyrell

July 11, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this

kirk, i would take your word for it. all im saying is you have plenty to say about how good the managment is. the only thing you have to say about the players is the team can win with or without josh smith. you say you are about winning and i take your word for it so am i. the difference is that you think managment is so good. i dont think that way because 4 years later and the best we can do is 37 wins which is less than 41 which is what it takes to just break even. tell me how that is winning and if you are about winning then you should be concerned about that maybe. tell me where in the last 4 years have we done so much winning. what we have won has been a collected effort of the very players in uniform. any fool can put together enough talent to win some games in the nba. it takes someone good to put the right guys together and win at least half the games you play. i call anything more than half winning. what do you call it. and how are we going to win when we dont even know if the team that couldnt win half of last years games is even going to be the same team we have this year. without josh smith is fine yeah i agree. but without him means with who. who is it that makes the team good enough to be better than last year may i ask. maybe you should ask the managment that is not talking to anyone and waits to see the rest of the nba doing what teams do to get better and win.

ray, dont talk like im not here. you have something to say to me then say it or mind your business. dont care what anybody says the stats i posted are facts so how can you argue with them. josh smith averages less turnovers a game than the great lebron and carmelo. yes they are the main offense guys on their teams but they are supposed to be much better and everybody would agree that they are all star players. people say josh is not an all star player and never will be but averages less turnovers playing for a dumb coach and playing just as many minutes. like i said its a fact so what is there to argue. tell me that wise guy.

By Matt

July 11, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

Ray,

MRI came back fine - thanks for the concern.

As for Orlando, I couldn’t figure out what to say about them. They’ve got the second best individual player in the East with Howard, and are like the Cavs in many ways - they rise and fall based on how their superstar performs.

They added Pietrus, but they also are banking on Turkoglu repeating his career year from last year. Turk isn’t a young man, so the odds of him improving more are pretty slim, and I easily could imagine him backsliding.

Rashard Lewis is a very good player as well. He’s 29 like Turk, so he’s in his prime, but that’s also the age where you expect to see more injuries or (just look at Bibby last year).

In many ways, Orlando is like Toronto - a great starting five, but a very thin bench. They also have possibly the thinnest backcourt rotation in the East, and that’ll be true even if Pietrus steps up.

To answer travis’s question, I see the Hawks finishing 5 to 7 in the East assuming they re-sign the Joshes and sign up an outside shooter and/or a respectable backup big using their mid-level exception and/or bi-annual exception. I think Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, and Orlando definitely finish ahead of them again. I’m could see Philly and Washington finishing ahead too. Toronto I don’t see doing as well, relying as they are on an injury-prone front line and a thin bench.

By Matt

July 11, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

One more thing - I didn’t ignore the fact that if JJ goes down, the Hawks are in trouble. My mentions of Washington and Toronto as being susceptible to injury was based on the injury histories of their top players. JJ, with the exception of that freak kick-in-the-calf injury from ‘07, hasn’t missed a game in 5 years. Bibby is the only starter who missed more than 5 games last year AND the Hawks have a deeper team than Washington - they go at least 8 deep (counting Zaza and Acie) in starter-quality players rather than 4-6.

By DAP01

July 11, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Being proactive is not meant to be doing something for sake doing something.

Being proactive is not letting Jarvis Hayes signing with New Jersay.

I hope that Sund has a plan. But as of right now, I can’t see one.

By doc

July 11, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

matt, huge assumption since the folks ahead of us have already done their work to get ready for the new season with more changes to come fromthem probably. the folks bhind us are doing the same to get better. detroit even if it does nothing is better than we are as are the cavs who have yet to make a move. i was amazed at how high their expenditures are but they were actually the team that REALLY gave the celts all they could handle and because of that should get more respect than they do. matt, all things even even if we sign and keep the boss 8 intact we struggle unless there are significant injuries to others and we are graced again without major injuries ourselves. love the optimism though.

funny, how i hear how well we are doing with this management team. i can quickly think of 6 teams that have reversed their fortunes in a shorter time than us .. … sixers, utah, hornets, boston, lakers and portland. i am sure there is an argument for some other teams. throw out the lakers if you want but they have done a remarkable job of reloading to the top of their division. yup, stuck in the slow lane doing it on BASG time.

By Sautee

July 11, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Kirk

I’ll try to call you out on this one as gently and humanely as possible.

I’m also not afraid to admit when I was wrong about something,can’t say everyone is like that here either.

and yet after you posted this:

Funny how those who complain about the Hawks not signing them already never mentioned that a contract offer was extended and rejected.

and I told you about Astro and me having that conversation, there was no mea culpa on your part other than to say “Yeah, I remember that.”

At least admit that you were wrong to say “never mentioned” when it obviously was mentioned. Those absolutes tend to come back at you. It’s certainly happened to me. And I gladly posted a “my bad”.

And, one more time, when I brought up the Patriots (and I happen to agree with your glee at their Super Bowl loss), you knew that I was talking about their front office approach to business, but you conveniently changed the subject.

Can you not agree that we’d be better of as a franchise if our front office was as savvy and proactive as theirs?

(And for Volman - by proactive I mean trying to lock up players you value LONG before they hit the market).

Also for you Kirk:

What would you say Smoove’s value is? You say you’d be ok with keeping him. Fine, at what price?

I’ve said all year that 5yrs/60M was as high as I thought he should go, although doc got me to admit that for a mil or two a year extra, he might be worth more. I still actually think somewhere south of 5/60 is about right.

Lemme know.

By Matt

July 11, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Doc,

Dunno how you put Portland on that list, considering that they still haven’t sniffed the playoffs. Even in the East, they only would have been a 7 seed. You seem to be assuming that all their talent will actually mesh at some point, despite the fact that Pritchard loves to blow up half the roster every year. Oden, Aldridge, and Roy have yet to play a game together, and the team just traded away it’s best point guard. I’m a big fan of Pritchard and what he’s done with the team, but it’s a huge overstatement to say that they “reversed their fortunes” when they haven’t come close to a playoff berth in 5 years. (And no, I’m not saying the Hawks have reversed their fortunes yet either. I think BOTH teams are improving but not “there” yet.)

Philly too is hardly “there” yet too. Their roster is in many ways similar to Washington’s roster from last year (3 very good players at the 1, 3, and 4, and a solid center), but Washington hasn’t exactly set the world on fire. I question whether Andre Miller has the drive to will a team to the top of the conference.

As for the other teams in the East, I’m not banking on the other teams being injured for the Hawks to do well. I’m banking primarily on the fact that there are only 2 guys on the roster older than 25, which both means that the team is less injury prone AND is almost certain to improve on last year.

You also seem to assume that the Hawks will use neither their mid-level nor their bi-annual exception to sign 1-2 solid players of their own. I’m not assuming they will use those exceptions, but it’s not like ASG has never used them before (see: Speedy and Zaza). Assuming Sund is a better judge of FA talent than Knight, those could be used to make the Hawks a 10-deep team. If that happens…watch out.

Also, if Speedy returns to close to his old form, the Hawks could have an embarrassment of riches at point guard. As I’ve said many times (and I’ve seen you agree), a healthy Bibby solves our PG problem. A backcourt rotation of Bibby, Speedy, and Acie would give us 3 different looks to throw at opposing teams - an outside shooter, a drive-and-dish speedster, and a big strong guy who’s solid both off the dribble and spotting up.

Then again, I don’t think Speedy will be back. But I do think that the Hawks will add a solid PF or C to bulk up the front line, unless Sund is convinced that Solomon is the answer and has assurances that Woody will play him. If that’s the case, a 4-man front line is more than enough to keep us rolling.

So yeah, I’m optimistic. But why shouldn’t I be - my MRI came back negative!

By Samuel

July 11, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Doc Please,

No tape is gonna win a 48 minute contest. You gotta get it done on the floor. I watched that series and JJ and Josh Smith were the key to the Hawks. Horford played pretty good but at times was overwhelmed and over matched. Sure, the Cavs may have played a better game seven but really, WHO”S IN THE LEAGUE IS TALKING ABOUT THE CAVS? Who even remembers that series?

You guys are a trip and show your ignorance towards the game when you fail to give any credit to Woody in that series. Like it or not, it all starts with the coach. He can’t win it but he is a very important ingredient. The man has a ring and maybe, just maybe he’s a better post season coach than regular season one. Furthermore, to me his era didn’t really start until they acquired Bibby. Now you can truely judge him.

I say again, we don’t need to sign anyone other than who we have and we’ll be able to compete with anybody in the league. They’ve proven that. So yall just continue to watch this freekin computer screen 24/7 and hold your breath til my boy Rick makes a move. Hee Hee!!

By Raptors Fan in TO

July 11, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Sorry I’ve been away folks. Glad to check back in and see my boys getting mentioned!

Salim Fan and Matt: I agree about Toronto’s thin bench. It will likely get thinner because we apparently don’t have the cap room to re-sign Delfino (that would be a huge blow to the backcourt IMHO —- he was often inserted as the third PG behind Calderon and Ford).

IF we manage to re-sign Delfino, and IF Bargnani wakes up from his sophomore snore-fest, I say we can contend for top four in the East. Even if the injury riddled O’Neal plays only 30 games this year, it will make a huge difference as Bosh was the only big man who could rebound and block last year (and what few injuries Bosh had, were from over use). I don’t worry about Calderon, he proved he is durable.

But it is sure to be a wild East this year —- I did not see any mention of the Knicks, who have D’Antoni as coach and some fresh young draft picks. Why are the Hawks dragging their feet in signing the Joshes? The other UFA’s out there look like a bunch of journeymen for the most part.

Cheers folks. Hopefully I can make it down to Atlanta for a game this year.

By Trying to be a Hawks Fan

July 11, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

The hawks are merely prolonging the inevitable which is the Joshs are going to leave simply because the coaching sucks. The biggest mistake the Hawks made this season is re-signing the worthless coach. Who cares if he pushed the Celtics 7 games, call it dumb luck…they [Hawks] were completely out-coached in game 7 of that series and remember the Hawks limped into the playoffs with a embarassing record.

If the Hawks want to win fire the coach go after a premier coach that can really get this group of guys to play well. Free Agent season is still young, the Joshs may still be on the move and honestly just let them go because this franchise clearly is not poised to win.

By doc

July 11, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

samuel, i pray you arent disappointed that the BASG sat on their hands and let smoove go because i will be too.i f they do i just hope they are talking to okafor because he might be a better fit than smoove with horford. it will take time to see where the sh!t falls and we may be all right.

maybe folks arent talking about the cavs but it is right there dude they played them better period, game by game cant say otherwise and it was the best game seven i have seen since nique and larry went at it. if you watched the broadcasters were saying the same thing. your argument just doesnt hold up to scrutiny unless you are a homer and isolated from the world. go back and check the figures, the celts were on the precipice about to fall off when destiny and pierce stood up to the challenge. facts and no fish story about how big the one that got away was.

i assure you i put money money where my mouth was and had a blast yelling and watching smoove and jj work their magic in the big a but they went south in boston and folded four games there just like the lakers did in two. we also had no easy wins where the cavs and the lakers did so i guess we ignore those facts as well. skin of their teeth is how they got in and performed, but it was fun granted. ask the warriors fans how much fun they had this off season and you might hear how it will be here next year unless management does what we have screamed about doing now for three years, a big and a shooter now that we got a point guard the third missing element we have all known was needed. the question was when and we got burned miserably on that one. my bad too.

i guess it is also imaginative how some folks make their own start lines. i hope woody is the reincarnation of bobby cox who fell flat his first time and this is essentially woody’s second but you cant say bobby didnt learn along the way and he considers his start line with his failures not after. has woody learned anything that maybe the coach in portland has done to work his magic without crying for a vet in fact wanting to be rid of a few. no big or a shooter and we are toast samuel. heh heh

By fudd21

July 11, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Reports are that NJ is working on signing Jarvis Hayes.

Matt I like your thinking and hope you are right, but you also have to think of the Woody factor. LOL

Tyrell You are right in that your stats are true. No one can argue the stats. But in comparing the 3 you can’t overlook the fact that they handle the ball so much more than Josh even if they are playing the same amount of minutes.

Let’s take a look at some other stats, those of Steve Nash and Ben Wallace. Steve’s career number are 2.66 TO playing 30.9 minutes. Wallace career number are 1.04 TO playing 31.4 minutes. So Wallace has played more minutes with half the turnovers of Nash. Using your logic then Wallace is better at handling the ball than Nash?

By Sautee

July 11, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Samuel

Since you’ve baited me, I’ll respond.

If I’m showing my ignorance by not giving Woody credit for the 3 home wins in the playoffs, what are you showing by discounting the 4 losses (by an avg. of more than 20 points) in Boston?

If Woody is so great for those home wins, why does he not SUCK for those losses? How can you ignore those losses? Over 20 points!

And if the New Woody era started with Bibby’s arrival, guess what?

The winning % after Bibby was roughly 46%. (18-21) Over 82 games 46% would put you at 38 games won. ONE game better than the entire season last year.

Samuel, I wish I could share your optimism at how much better they will be with just the “core eight” returning, but my hopes are offset by my fears of injury (we were inordinately lucky last year), and my view that Woody is not going to change his stripes and therefore we’ll actually get a 46% (at best) coaching job.

I also think we have an unbalanced roster as currently constructed.

I’d LOVE to post a mea culpa about this next season. I’d LOVE to be wrong, and you be right about this.

I just can’t help having a healthy skepticism when it comes to Woody and the BASG.

I’m afraid that February casts it’s shadow over everything that will happen between now and then.

doc and others have posted that this is the most important offseason since the BASG took over the team.

And I agree, which is why I think that “status quo” will leave us struggling again to make the playoffs.

But here’s hoping that YOU are correct and I’ll be eating crow next season.

By Alan

July 11, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Is there anyway we can go ahead and give either one of the Josh’s an offer right now? Or do we have to wait until some team give them an offer before we do anything? I’m just tired of waiting… lol

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Ray, Zaza is a center. And Matt, Moe Williams, Redd, Jefferson, Villanaueva, and Bogut. I can see Milwuakeee fighting for one of those spots. At least as a 7th or 8th seed. We have our work cut out for us, if you ask me. And Indy has TJ Ford, Granger, Dunleavy, Troy Murphy, and Jeff Foster. With Jack, Brandon Rush, Marquis Daniels, Nesterovich, David Harrison, and Hibbert. I would’nt count them out either. They shoulda had the 8th seed this year, but they “LET US OFF THE HOOK”! All we had to do was defeat a depleted Heat team, and we could’nt even do that.

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

It looks like Jarvis Hayes is about to be a Net. There goes my other shooter. First there was Roger Mason Jr. and now Hayes. Darnit! Lets see who’s left, that’s affordable for the BASG: Shannon Brown, Juan Dixon, Lindsey Hunter, Kareem Rush, Fred Jones, and Keyon Dooling(maybe).

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

It looks like Jarvis Hayes is about to be a Net. There goes my other shooter/scorer. First there was Roger Mason Jr. and now Hayes. Darnit! Lets see who’s left, that’s affordable for the BASG: Shannon Brown, Juan Dixon, Lindsey Hunter, Kareem Rush, Fred Jones, and Keyon Dooling(maybe).

By fudd21

July 11, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Terrell The really sad thing about it is that reports say he is signing for the bi-annual exception which is 1.9 million per. Dang ASG, yall couldn’t make Jarvis that type of offer. I’m sure he would have rathered come back home and play for a team that made the playoffs last year than NJ.

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

I guess the plan is to just re-sign Salim, and watch him ride the pine, in Woody’s doghouse. lol!

By Samuel

July 11, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Detriot couldn’t beat em(Celtics) three times at home nor could the Lakers. So the Hawks and Woody were better than The Lakers and Pistons, right?

Guys, Rick is negotiating. He’s in the driver’s seat right now. I believe and hope Josh does the right thing and signs with the Hawks but if not there’s still plenty of good players who are RFA left. I lke him but I also like other players.

Have you noticed that none of these guys have signed either? Gordon, Deng, Okafor, Ellis,Biedrins and Iguodala. I’m sure Rick is explaining to Josh that if he leaves, we can replace him. I really don’t think Josh wants to do that. He’s just trying to get his money. He’ll get it, just not as much as he thought.

I think he and his agent realizes that. After it’s all said and done. He’ll be rich anyways.

By doc

July 11, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

matt, please portland … more wins and lose their big man for the year. come come give them their cred that they finished with more wins and in the west where wins seemed to come harder. didnt they take both games form us as well? no need to go out and get vets to round out their team, go back and read ray’s blog and them research back to a link about the shrewd gm they have.

do you not doubt philly is better? did they not finish ahead of us/ what do we do but wait to see what happens here like it is predetermined the good guys will come through when they have faltered many times before?

nope not priceless, but your negative mri is. glad to hear it dude.

let the games continue we have got real things to worry about other than your mri like what “my boy rick” is going to do. ;-))

By Melvin

July 11, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

When was the last time the ASG sign a FA that was of some significance? It was two years ago with the Speedy and Lo Wright signings (i know you are laughing).

My point is, they haven’t sign a FA (Mario and Jeremey doesn’t count) since the fiasco started with Belkin. Is this a indication that they (BASG) are Cash Strapped? Should we expect them to be proactive this summer based on their track record? Funny how the BASG (and some bloggers) can preach that we need to be patient? Uh, what have we been doing for the past 4 years???

Maybe we should wait to spend our money to support them when they decide to give us a team thats worthy of supporting….

We (Hawk fans) can comeup with all type of trades, FA signings and other moves in hopes to improve our team but until management decide they would like to compete and put a better product on the floor we are only fooling ourselves in hoping that we can compete with Granny Datsun 210 while other teams are driving Ferrari’s and Lamborghini’s in this race to the Championship…

Granny Old Datsun = PAIN

By hawkfan

July 11, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

i almost feel like us fans or bloggers are doing more work than the ASG right now with our fantasy trades and lineups, which is not a good thing at all, this waiting is becoming pointless, i thought there would be more news for us right now

By doc

July 11, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

funny as stupid as some think folks are, on this blog about what is good and what aint; the early hits for possible signings offered only to “hep” the home team are off the board. stupid us’.

dern melvin, i didnt think it was GOD we are concerned about.

By Matt

July 11, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Melvin,

The Hawks actually made their biggest free agent signing (in terms of money laid out) after the Belkin fiasco started - Speedy Claxton in 2006.

We also added Anthony Johnson without giving up any salary before the trade deadline in ‘07, and obviously ponied up some pretty major dough this past February to get Bibby for 16 months. So really, the only period where the Hawks showed a genuine aversion to spending money was last summer.

I hope they use the mid-level and/or the bi-annual exception this year, since we have both available. I’m not saying the BASG isn’t cheap, but I think that if you look at their spending patterns objectively, people have overblown their spendthriftness by at least a little bit.

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 11, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Am I missing something? So the Bucks add Richard Jefferson to basically the same team as last year and now that makes them a playoff contender? Richard Jefferson? I highly doubt that…

By doc

July 11, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

matt, the hawks have been bottom three in expenses or salary the last few years. the cba has a clause that requires teams to use a certain number to the cap which they have not exceeded and at times have thrown money to folks who dont deserve it just to meet that number i.e. lorenzen. it is also why they structured jj salary early because they had to spend it in some way and figured that was better than inviting kenny anderson back again along with another oldie but hardly worthy person. yup one time they truly spent the money and that was on bibby which may stimie us yet this year. we will see.

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

No Samuel, not right. The Celtics GOT BETTER as the Playoffs went along. The Hawks got lucky and caught them in the 1st rd. If we would have played them in the conference semis or the EC Finals, we woulda got swept. Believe that!

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

And remember Samuel, it was the big 3’s 1st playoff appearance together, when they played us. I’m not taking anything away fron the Hawks, but come on man. Do you actually believe that we had a better team than LA, Clev, or Detroit?

By Melvin

July 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Matt, you are right. the speedy signing was the year before the Belkin Fiasco. As for the Bibby trade, they traded 3 or 4 players and a draft pick to make the salaries match. And they acquire AJ for a draft pick as well. In both deals, their salary cap didn’t increase by much if any. However, where was the risk in those deals? I understand Bibby contract will tie them up for another year but it did allow they to dump Sheldon’s contract for the next 3 years. My point is, if they are going to create cap space, when are they going to use it? They are currently under the cap and haven’t sign FA or resign their own RFA. I noticed that someone mention early that other RFA’s haven’t sign either? But how many of the those RFA teams are under the cap (Philly & GS)? And for teams that are, haven’t they sign a FA(s) this summer (Philly & GS)?

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Matt, I swear your’re Gearon Jr. lol!!

By Astro Joe

July 11, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Doc, I’ll have to hit that link from my home later this weekend. I’m looking forward to seeing what the experts have to say (and casting several votes as well).

Interesting cat and mouse game going on in LA. Clippers say they will take their time to consider all options, including using cap space in trades. Smith comes out and says that Clips may not be an upgrade over Hawks. My gut tells me that this is part of the negotiation (or mating) game. Either that, or Smith’s people are trying to get Sund to the table in a pro-active move.

I say offer Smith 5/$60M and maybe some incentives (Bogut’s deal includes about $12M in incentives over the life of the contract). Childress should be offered a 4/$28M deal.

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

The Hawks were purchase for 208 million in 2004. The current value of the team is 286 million. So I guess the BASG are’nt that broke. lol!! Imagine if they put an annual playoff contender together.

By MsDee

July 11, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

TB I must intervene if I may..I have to disagree a tad simply because the 1st round is exactly that..the 1st round! Boston was fresh/rested..they KILLED US at their home but couldn’t in ATL????? Its no excuse for Boston to not have won a game in ATL if they were 66wins to our only 37!! I understand what u are saying and no we arent better than CAV’s, Det, or LA but WE ONLY WON 37 and took the CHAMPS to game 7!! The 1st series, I might add, to a game 7!!

By travis

July 11, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

In the words of JESSE JACKSON “See, um, Woody has been talkin’ bad about his team, especially Salim. Sayin’ that they weren’t that good. I wanna cut his stun off!”

By ray

July 11, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

tyrell, did you say something? I’m sorry, but I couldn’t hear you over that grammatical train wreck. Just kidding (sort of). Look man, statistics are facts, that is true. But as you can see, any of these “facts” can be used to support or undermine any argument. That’s all I’m saying. You have a point. But look at what fudd21 had to say. He’s got a point, too. I know trying to reason with kirk probably tests you to the limits of human endurance, but it’ll be okay, LOL! Just don’t start any DRAMA, he can’t stand it.

Matt, that’s good news. Glad to hear it. I have to concede your point about Orlando. A couple of injuries and it’s trouble. But I have to think that Pietrus helps that a bit, as he can take Turk’s spot if necessary. Unless of course they make him the starting two guard. You’re right though: Orlando and Toronto have depth issues (and so do we) and injury concerns. If they’re healthy….

Samuel, I was going to ask you what you would say about your boy Sund if Josh ends up not being here at season’s start, but it looks like you are already leaning in a certain direction by saying that you hope Josh comes to his senses and signs with us. So are you now taking management’s side on this? Not trying to be a smart-a$$, just asking. I know that Josh plays a part here as he must decide whether he wants to go for broke and sign a Clippers offer sheet…if it’s offered to him.

While this most certainly is about money from the beginning, leave us not forget that this is most likely not ALL it is about. I think other things have developed in the meantime. Before last season, I would’ve said that Josh would absolutely hands down LOVE to stay here. But what about now? How does Josh feel about two more years of Woody? How does Josh feel about playing in the “system” that he is playing in now? Again, this is about money, as any agent would agree, but I don’t think it’s %100 about money. You know it’s not. Look at Elton Brand. Don’t think the Warriors offered more? They were talking 95 million, were they not? That’s less than Philly offered, yet which team did he go to? It’s not all money, all the time.

Having said that, I expect this “offering” to be dissected, attacked (probably cut and pasted…heh heh), etc. I want Josh to stay. I want him to stay at a reasonable price. I want him to be happy here. That ain’t always how it turns out. Sometimes you get 2 out of 3, sometimes none out of 3. But for all the “the organization has the upper hand, Sund is in the driver’s seat and has control” axioms….let’s remember that if things don’t go so well.

As for the playoffs, I agree that JJ and Josh were the absolute crux of the three wins. So was Horford. Samuel, you can say he was overwhelmed at times, and you’d be right. What rookie playing out of position wouldn’t be overwhelmed when having to match up with a heavier Kendrick Perkins along with Kevin Garnett? He was one big man surrounded by green shirts. Overwhelmed? Go to NBA.com and dig up the facts. Dude averaged 12.6 points, 10.4 rebounds, 1 block, and 3.6 assists per game against the eventual NBA champs, all while playing 40 minutes per game out of position. If that’s overwhelmed, I can only be excited about what he can do with some rugged help down low.

Samuel, I am honestly willing to watch Woody and see if he bonds with his players better and leads them to significantly more victories. But I also have to echo the sentiments of others and say that I can’t ignore the 4 awful road losses where the team didn’t play anything like they did in the 3 home wins. I know Woody’s coaching had an effect in BOTH. I am trying to find what the biggest difference between the wins and losses is. It can’t be Woody’s magnificent coaching, or we would’ve done better on the road. Unless of course you want to blame the players for all of it. The coach is the leader all of the time or none of the time. Not trying to bash Woody, just looking at it from a different angle.

By Melvin

July 11, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

AstroJoe, I like those numbers for both Joshes. I may be willing to give Jsmoove 13m/per yr.

Terrell, Good info. Where did you find those numbers at? If those numbers are accurate, how come many believe they were losing 20 mil per season. Looks like they were making 20 mil per season. That makes sense especially after Doc stated their player expenditures for the past 4 years…lol…

By Melvin

July 11, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Travis, you are wrong for that…LMAO.

By doc

July 11, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

you know i just realized it is a breath of fresh air to not be talking about billy knight anymore one way or the other. my boy rick is still in his honeymoon period. give him about two years or some positive or negative (for sure) steps and i am sure the name will surface again.

By Gilley

July 11, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

The Hawks should have re-signed Smith and Childress last year like Sekou said, because we missed out on the shooter we wanted/needed, Jarvis Hayes, who signing with the Nets.

Its other names out there but we have to wait on the overflow instead of getting the best. Everyone in the east is improving except us. Sund starting off on a bad note if he doesn’t get a great acquisition this off-season.

By ray

July 11, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

I just went back and looked again. Horford really showed pretty good against the Celtics. How good? Well, he had a higher efficiency rating on the team than anybody else during the playoffs….including Joe Johnson and Josh Smith. Believe it or not, Josh was second and Joe was third. I’m not saying that this proves Joe was the third least effective because that ain’t true. But it shows Horford pretty well. Guess what else? Throughout the playoffs, no single big man produced better stats against the Celtics than Al Horford. To cut it even closer, I would argue that Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom matched his production against the Celtics, rather than exceeded it. I tell you what: I am damn glad Horford is a Hawk and we better not be going through the nonsense in two years that we are now with Josh Smith. Horford will be worth more as it is. This better not even be an issue when his time comes.

Najeh,

I’m probably the one that gave you that impression about Milwaukee. I’m not saying they are automatically a playoff contender. What I am saying is that Richard Jefferson (especially playing with the tough and clever Bogut) automatically makes this team better. I’m also saying that Scott Skiles is going to get things done with this team that Larry Krystowiak could never do. Skiles is good when it comes to discipline, hard work, tough defense, and a solid game plan. That automatically makes Milwauke more of a challenger for a playoff spot, but not a lock for one.

Astro Joe, I think your proposal is as sound a one as I’ve heard. I hope Sund listens to you…and the Joshes need to as well. And yes…you need to check out Doc’s link. You likey. I promise. You likey, although there may be a few of your favorites missing (I can’t remember if Beyonce was on there or not…I’m still a bit stunned).

By travis

July 11, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Assuming that we sign the Joshes, where do you all see us finishing next season? Matt says that he sees us finishing 5th in the EAST.

Boston, Detroit, Orlando, Clev., Washington, Philly, (Toronto, Indy, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta).

I am struggling to see how we are better than Miami, Chicago, Toronto or Indy. Even though some say they have a weaker bench. Our bench at helluva, either

By richbrave

July 11, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Roger Mason Jr is out and Dee Brown is in. Wizards draft to cover their assets because of Etan Thomas’ split breast-bone. Like I’ve said before, he’ll be a he!! of a man if he EVER plays pro ball again. Looks like we’re stuck with one-legged Gil, so I suppose Jamison will be inked as well, unless they already have. Can’t see the Wiz any better off at this point. In fact depending on Brown, they will probably slide a bit at guard. Nick Young is gonna’ have to grow up quickly.

I see the Hawks passing Washington this year and taking their slot in the playoffs unless Philly heads them off with one-legged Brand. GO HAWKS.

Hey doc. See you in early April. We’ll do a double-header, Hawks and Braves. How about it? Later.

By ray

July 11, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Richbrave, Jamison inked first and Agent Zero said that he wouldn’t if Jamison didn’t. Then, Agent Zero was so kind to accept a reduced offer of only $111 million instead of the 121 million he wanted, so that the team could afford to sign Jamison. How nice of him. Now if only he was able to show he’s worth the money…

Astro…where did Smith come out and say that? I must have missed the article.

By richbrave

July 11, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

RAY:

My man. Thanx for the props and update on JAMISON. Wish ARENAS was history here. Should have known when GRUNFELD said priority one and two were to sign JAMISON and GIL. Been out of the loop as you know. See you next spring??

By doc

July 11, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

yeauuh ray i too was disappointed that they were remiss to not include bebouncey, but brit was there.

i will be there RICHBRAVE. you da man. cant believe they put money into aenas, he better have some good insurance to fall back on.

By seriously

July 11, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Im now convinced that Samuel is Woody’s brother and Matt is Marvins brother. You two crack me up.

Samuel you ignore everything that is sitting in your face to make your point. You keep bringing up that we won 3 home games yet you always leave out the fact that we got blown out in each road game. No road game was even close. If people forgot about the Cleveland series against Boston then im sure they forgot about Atlanta against Boston. You ignore the facts that Cleveland played Boston better the whole series. Cleveland actualy had a chance to win game 7. Atlanta did not have a chance at all to win a game 7. So howe do you give Woody credit for the home games but ignore the road games? . How is it that we are to ignore Woody’s first 3 and a half years and only count when he got Bibby? You do realize that even with Bibby we still did not play .500 ball?

Matt its no way in hell we finish in the top 5. How? We won 37 games last year and backed into the playoffs. If it wasnt for Indiana choking we would be on here talking about how we lost a lottery pick to the Suns. Even if we bring back the two Joshes I just dont see us making the playoffs. If you havent noticed other teams have been improving and well we have been doing nothing. All the shooters and big men are signing to other teams while we play this cat and mouse game and its looking more and more like we are going to lose. Toronto had injuries last year and were still better than us. Philly had a young team and were better than us. They just added a 20 and 10 guy… Orlando is better than us and just added the 2 guard they have been lacking. Indiana played probaby as well as us last year while missing Jermaine O Neil most of the year. They have added a good pg in TJ Ford. Dont be shocked if they are better than us. Miami had a lot of injuries last year. Dont be shocked if they are contending for a playoff spot. Last year when we could have took our own destiny in our hands and put ourselves in the playoffs we could not . We lost to a CBA team in Miami and has to wait till the Pacers lost to sneak in. Im sorry but with the way this offseason is going for this team I wouldnt be shocked if we were on the outside looking in again.

By Samuel

July 11, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

TB,

Lucky, if, woulda. Spin it however you want but Ainge, Doc and that whole city was scared to death. I bet you can’t get them to say the Hawks were lucky. We took it to their as_, period.

By Ken Strickland

July 11, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

I haven’t had much to say the last 2 days, but I’ve been reading your posts. I finally realized that nothing I’ve thought or said, no matter how I said it, has or will change anything. I’ve realized it’s better for me to just relax and let the Hawks handle this their way. They know what they have to work with, and/or against, a lot better than any of us.

They certainly had the right idea when it came to Philly’s supposed efforts to go after Smoove. It’s also quite possible they know something we don’t about the Clippers efforts to go after him as well. At this point, the Hawks seem to be holding most of the cards. We can match any offer and either keep him, or force a sign and trade. Like I’ve said before, the bigger the contract offer, the more a team will have to give up in a sign and trade.

The Clippers aren’t loaded with a lot of talent, so they would have to give up a lot of what they do have to make a sign and trade work. Kaman would have to be in the middle of any sign and trade discussion. In addition to Brand, they’ve lost Meggette(7M) and renounced SLivingston((4.4M), SParker((1.8M) and DDickau(.7M). That only leaves CKaman(8.6M), CMobley(8.35M), TThomas(5.63M) and AThorton(1.65M) with million dollar contracts. Mobley isn’t likely a consideration because he’s overpriced for a player that wouldn’t start for us. That leaves Kaman and TThomas(combined (14.23M) or Kaman, Thorton and a future pick(combined 10.25M plus value of pick). They’d be left with Davis and Smoove, but not much else. Kaman would give us the big man in the middle we’ve needed. Horford would replace Smoove at PF, a position he’s best suited for. With that combo, we’d have a big, strong, physical C/PF combination that could run the floor and average a solid double double.

To be honest, we might be a better team overall with C Kaman and PF Horford than C Horford and PF Smoove. TThomas would give us a big shooter(6’10”) and a backup PF.

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 11, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

It’s not just you, Ray, I’ve been seeing people pimping the new Milwaukee Bucks on a lot of basketball websites/blogs that I visit.

By morris

July 11, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

The clippers aren’t giving josh smith a big contract. Yes they would like to have him but know the hawks would match any reasonable offer. The clippers had their heart set on the davis/brand combo. They are way to frugal to overpay for smith so the hawks will end up winning this offseason battle for smith. But not because they are smarter than any of the other teams but rather just lucky the cards fell in their favor.

By O'brien

July 11, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Ken Strickland, I’m a big Hawks fan, and I hope we find a way to keep Josh Smith.

However, why would the Clippers want to do a sign and trade with the Hawks for Josh Smith, when they are under the cap? If the Hawks decide not to match, then we could lose him for nothing. (And I would be surprised if the Clippers were willing to give up Kaman. Who would play center for them?). Also, I remember reading somewhere that Smoove is a BYC player, so we can only take back half of whatever his contract is.

By kirknga

July 11, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

Sautee from your 10:14 post *At least admit that you were wrong to say “never mentioned” when it obviously was mentioned. *

Not only will I change never to rarely, I will also state again, that I was wrong last summer when I argued for Conley over Horford!!

See it’s easy! Now how about the second part of the same point? How about those who assured us that Smith was gone to Philly?

Have you ever been wrong about anything Hawk related?

To answer your question about Smith’s value, it is whatever he can get! That is why I say it would be smart for his agents to advise him not to sign any contract with the Hawks until he tested the market.Do I believe he is worth the max? No I do not.

I’ll try to call you out on this one as gently and humanely as possible

Thoughtful of you, however I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, anyone can call me out just so long as they do make up what it is I said.

Give and take is what makes being a sports fan fun!

Someone asked for a predicted order for the East: Boston, Detroit, Orlando,Cleveland, Philly,Toronto,Atlanta,Miami. I say 51%-49% Atlanta upsets Detroit in the 1st round.

I’m assuming the return of Smith, Childress, and Salim(50-50 at this point) and a healthy Bibby, with no major injuries to the Hawks. Any major injuries(JJ, Bibby, Horford,) for a significant time, I would believe that the Hawks do not make the playoffs and I look for Chicago to make it. I also assume the addition of another big.

By kirknga

July 11, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if the Hawks are over the salary cap. If they are not, then BYC wouldn’t apply to Smith or Childress, or Salim I would think. Also, doesn’t BYC only kick in when there’s a trade?

The BYC is there to stop a team from evading the cap. The Hawks are able to match offers for Smith and Childress.

By Melvin

July 11, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Celtics signs Patrick O’Bryant. You can strike another player off the Bloggers wish list. I don’t believe he was on the BASG list. Then again, do they even have a list…..

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

Melvin, I just looked up Gearon Jr.’s bio. And Samuel, I never said the Hawks got LUCKY and won those games at home. I said they got lucky and played Boston in the 1st round. Every 1 seed takes the 8th seed lightly. It happens. We were’nt nearly as good as the Celtics. That’s why we backed in with 37 wins, and they won 66 games. If we were so good, why were the games we won at home so close, and the ones we lost on the road so lopsided? Why are you tryin to make us out to be better than we REALLY ARE?

By kirknga

July 11, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

Too bad about O’Bryant, I thought he would be a better fit than he was with the Warriors.

Good catch for the Celtics.

By Samuel

July 11, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

My Boy OJ just brought the house down in Vegas with a monster coast to coast dunk. Cuz, after watching Rose and Beasley, who definately didn’t blow me away, I’m still sticking with my prediction that The Juice maybe the best of the bunch.

Yall can catch the second half on NBA.com live streaming.

By MannyT

July 11, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

I am behind on blogging. Probably won’t catch up. Some of the blame goes to poster(s) of the year very distracting. I appreciate it!

doc I won’t say that I am happy to wait it out, but I think it is the right thing to do. Hopefully there is some good CRAP going on in the background.

Check out the Sixers GM perspective in these 2 articles Brand-Phillymax

Igoudala contract

Looks like Ed Stephanski has a decent handle on that GM thing even though this is his first time as the main guy. BK (King) gave him some good player pieces, good cap position, and a good, not great coach to run the team. Sund has more experience and a less preferred coach. Otherwise it is a similar situation.

I hope he has been Sundialing or texting on a regular basis to get things lined up. Otherwise granny might have to kick him out on the highway.

ray,SalimFan Yes, you can find stats to support almost any point of view. If you only get stats from one side, that’s the frame of reference that you use to view the situation. I’ll paraphrase that old gun slogan—Numbers don’t lie, people do ;-)

On another note, I recall hearing that styles make fights. That also works for playoff series and blogging. Woody gets a 2 yr extension off of 3 stylish playoff games and timely injuries on other teams. kirknga creates a blogging style that detracts from the reasonable points that he does make and grabs attention with the bolded cut and paste strategy—true

MannyT-Stats make the wonkish more relevant true

SalimFan-Video makes blogging more interesting true

Ray-Humor makes it more fun for all, except those it really p** off true

Doc-thoughtful blogging is generally respected across the board true

Kirknga-I’d probably enjoy debating a point or two in real time true Maybe it will happen during halftime of a game this season.

This post is important false but I had fun anyway so I did it.

I think Mama Cass said it best, MakeYour Own Kind of Music (Youtube video link not allowed?)

But just so you know I am multigenerational, Digital Undergound said it their way, Doowutchalike ( Youtube video link not allowed?)

WAF

By 404atlhoops

July 11, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Please someone tell me what are the Hawks waiting on????? Either the Hawks are handcuffed by playing the waiting game with the Childress and Smith or Sund has no intention of signing any of the free agents that’s been mentioned in these blogs(hayes, james, diop, elson). I think the Hawks want to just resign both Joshes and then add to the roster with NBA League minimum players. Either veterans that are way past their prime like Lorezen Wright and PJ Brown or young veterans that are 5-7 years removed from college. Fringe players that constantly go from the NBDL to the NBA and back. Basically guys that make up summer league rosters. Those types of moves do not significantly upgrade the Hawks. This is my opinion and I hope I’m wrong. I know free agency isn’t over yet but its been disappointing that the Hawks have sat on sidelines thus far.

By MannyT

July 11, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

doc I’m not sure about your IRU, but here are some possibilities.

Immediate Response Unit?

Investigative Reporting Unit?

Infarction/Respiratory Unit…for the doc in you ;-)

Intense Rage United

I am still in the patience can work camp…however as I see these other signings happen, I do have to repeat my qualification for patience. There should be lots of Sundialing & texting going on to the people he wants along with generalized, preliminary money talks (more, less than MLE/biannual exception)

As the shooters go away, it does make me wonder if granny got run over by a reindeer on the way to pick Sund & Gearon up for some of these meetings.

By MannyT

July 11, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

kirknga Unless the Hawks do some serious salary dumping like the Sixers did just before signing Brand, base year compensation will apply to both of the Joshes unless they decide to take the 1 year tender and become unrestricted next summer…which is very unlikely.

By MannyT

July 11, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

Portland rocks with potential!

For the reasons that doc has mentioned over several months. Very good coach that develops players. Very good drafting GM. Ability to adapt when Oden went down and be very productive with young players.

They have not done as well with the more experienced players, but it has been acceptable because they did find a way to get rid of the former bad influences.

Very good CRAP in the land of grunge and (coffee) grounds!

By MannyT

July 11, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

Gotta run, but I’ll leave you newer guys with a quick position post so you know where I stand.

BK was middle of the pack GM. I preferred him to below average coach Woody who seems to not develop bench or innovate/create during games.

I think Woody is a nice person, but I really regret his extension. As a fan, I hope I am wrong.

Keep the Joshes UNLESS there is a clear definite opportunity to make the team better by signing & trading one away to an over the cap team that can give us 2 good players that will fill needs that we have. It is more important to be better overall, than to keep 2 guys that are not your best player.

I don’t know the REAL salary budget for the ASG…and you probably don’t either. Just because you act poor, it doesn’t mean that you are. The flip side of this is acting poor keeps free agents away. They think you have little to offer when you act poor.

We need to sign a decent free agent to show that this is an organization that is better than a quick punch line for media types. It might not happen this summer, but it really needs to happen next summer when the cap space for Bibby + Zaza + Solo exceeds $20Mil.

I’m sure there is something else that I stand for besides acronyms, but I’m not Jerry Maguire and I won’t take the time to do a personal manifesto right now. Renee Zellweger would just complicate my life right now.

WAFFLE (Woody’s arms folded - feeding lower expectations!)

By Matt

July 11, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

Anyone who thinks Rose or Beasley will lift their respective teams to their playoffs in their respective rookie years is probably a bit overoptimistic. Only 2 of last year’s top 11 picks played in a playoff game last year - Al Horford and Acie Law.

Rose and Beasley are probably gonna be studs someday, but I have a tough time seeing Rose being a starting-quality PG this season. He’s a combo guard playing alongside an undersized two-guard in Gordon and a pretty good (but by no means All-Star caliber) three in Deng. Rose wasn’t a true PG in college, and it’ll take him at least half a season to adjust to the NBA. As I said above, the Bulls frontcourt is painfully weak. Gooden and Noah are NOT guys you want anchoring your front line, and Deng is a mediocre defender both inside and out. Teams will be scoring at will in the paint against them. I don’t remember any team making the playoffs in recent history without at least one decent PF or C - and the Bulls have neither. I know people love hating on Big Ben around here, but without Ben Wallace, they reverted to having one of the two worst frontcourts in the NBA, behind only…the Heat.

I’ll go so far as to say this (and I know I’ll get blasted to smithereens by the Rose fans) - for the 2008-2009 season, I don’t think Rose will be any better for the Bulls than the Hinrich/Duhon combo was last year. So I really fail to see why this team will contend for the playoffs unless everything goes perfectly.

As for the Heat…man, talk about a team that could go either way. Wade and Marion both need to stave off the injury bug. If they do that, they’ll contend for the playoffs. Beasley probably will score 12 or so points per game, but he’s not going to be a difference-maker in getting the team to the playoffs. Ricky Davis is a great swingman who can spell Wade/Beasley/Marion, but he’s pretty much the only guy they have for depth.

The Heat also have the same problem as the Bulls - zero decent big men. Except for the Heat, it’s even worse. Haslem is it. And I mean IT. Matrix can’t even pretend to play PF anymore on defense - he used to be able to make up for his small stature with his unreal athleticism, but his age and injuries have robbed him of some of that. He’ll still get his points on offense and pull down some rebounds, but he won’t stop anyone in the paint - neither on-ball nor as a help defender. And who exactly is going to be their starting center?? Alonzo Mourning? Earl Barron? Will they slide Haslem over to give us the NBA’s smallest starting 5 since the 1960’s?

Forget frontcourt depth. These teams don’t even have 3 serviceable players between them at the 4 or 5. It’s very, very, very hard to make the playoffs that way.

As I said…the East is still the East. After Detroit and Boston, there is not one single team whose starting 5 is solid from top to bottom.

By Samuel

July 11, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Memphis should be very exciting this year. I don’t know how many games they’ll win but very exciting. Mayo really impressed me in that he didn’t force anything. He’s a playmaker first but also very exciting in the open court. And who is PJ Tucker. Cat played with serious intentions on making somebody’s squad. I had to pull him up and saw that he was only 6’5”. He plays at least 5 inches taller.

I’m anxious to see how Kevin Love does. You know he’s “heady” and “smart”.

The jury is still out for me on that trade. The Wolves got a good man in Miller and the draft picks but OJ could turn out to be something special. We’ll see.

Conely looked good as a playmaker he’s just wrong-handed.

By Sautee

July 11, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

Kirk

WTF? Now how about the second part of the same point? How about those who assured us that Smith was gone to Philly?

Where is this from? Not from my 10:14 post. You have confused me, but I’m sure you’ll set it right.

Also, I was not asking what you thought the market would set for Josh, only what value you, as a fan would think he was worth. Obviously he’s worth what the market pays, but what price would you think would be fair to him and the Hawks both.

And don’t tell me the market will decide that. I know you could find a figure of your own.

And you obviously thought my question about the Patriots front office was rhetorical. It was not.

Have you ever been wrong about anything Hawk related?

Did you actually read that 10:14 post?

Give and take, man

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Good to see Will Bynum playing on Detroit’s Summer League squad. I heard he was going to jail in some other country for running somebody over.

By Sautee

July 11, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

Hey Samuel, it probably won’t surprise you that I’m a “wrong-handed” lefty myself, although I play bass right-handed.

But we lefties prefer to say that we are “correct handed”! ;-)

By the way I happen to think that both Joshes are heady and smart. Just not all the time.

Tucker was at Wisconsin with Brian Butch.

By Sautee

July 11, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Sam,

my bad, Alando Tucker was the Badger. P.J. left Texas early a couple of years ago. i think he was somebody’s 2nd. rounder.

By terrell barron

July 11, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

What happened to Brian Butch? His name was not on that Summer League roster. And what happened to Wayne Simeon? That guy was the truth at Kansas. I see he’s on our squad.

By Sautee

July 11, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

doc

Inactive Rick Unit?

Insipid Reply Unit?

Intelligence Repair Unit?

Inquiringminds Reallywannaknow Unit?

By Ken Strickland

July 11, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

OBRIAN-I don’t know as much as I’d like about the options a team has when matching a RFA contract, like:

(1)If the Clippers offer a high frontloaded contract, and the Hawks match, are the Hawks forbidden from renegotiating a more favorable one? If so, at what point can it be done?

(2)Which team determines if a sign and trade will be initiated?

(3)What happens if both teams agree on a sign and trade and can’t agree on the players to be involved? For example, if the Hawks insist on having Kaman included in a sign and trade, but the Clippers resist, what is the percedure for resolving the problem?

By kirknga

July 11, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

MannyT

Very interesting post and a reasonable critique of “my style”, I believe it is necessary because some people have a tendency to substitute their own words for my own. So sometimes precision is required.

I guess your answer about the Hawks cap space is that there isn’t any?

Sautee

You asked me a question about Smith’s value, I thought I answered it forthrightly and completely. I included my opinion about him not being a max player is my evaluation.

If you wanted a specific number then please ask for one, don’t say “value” because that is a broader concept in my opinion.

For example, “what is the specific salary amount you would give Josh Smith? Nothing about “value” ,just give me a number please.

I’m always happy to refine any answer to a legitimate sports related question.

Apparently you thought my question about whether or not you had ever been wrong about anything Hawks related was a rhetorical one. It most certainly was not.

More specifically about the Pats, I’m a Falcons fan, don’t expect me to heap praise on the Pats or compare football(with a hard cap) with basketball(and a soft cap). Or one sport where the players only number 5 and play both offense and defense, with another with 11 different players for the offensive and defensive(with rare exception).

By Mikeal

July 11, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

How lame can Espn’s Ric Bucher get? This guy is just going around Josh Smith doesn’t want to be with the Hawks because of Mike Woodson. We all know those two never seen eye to eye. However, to say he doesn’t want to be here because of Woodson is really annoying to hear.

First of all there is no truth to it. Bucher is bringing up old stories and making it seem like they are recent. For all of those here do not believe anything Bucher saids.

I know many will believe as the truth however. Sekou if you do read this, can you get to the bottom of it? It is really annoying hearing Espn spreading stories that are several years old and passing them off as recent news.

By KevinM

July 11, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

I was glad to see that the Hawks have Wayne Simien on the roster. I thought that he was going to do something for the Heat. We need big men in the worst way, but we are stagnant until JoshX2 gets done. And the ASG got into this ownership position because they knew they were going to make money hand over fist. If the team is worth +80M more than they were purchased, that doesn’t even count the TV revenue they pull in. They just have too many positive streams coming in versus what they suggest. The change to the new unis isn’t hurting them either.

By Melvin

July 11, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Don’t be surprise if the Clippers don’t sign a big time PF this summer and decide to go with the Twin Towers of Kaman and DeAndre Jordan…

By Lifelong Hawks Fan

July 11, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

Three more free agent signings in the NBA today. But not a single one made by our Hawks yet. Oh well. I guess we can get that veteran help from the veterans that other teams don’t want.

By Lifelong Hawks Fan

July 11, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

Three more free agent signings in the NBA today. But not a single one made by our Hawks yet. Oh well. I guess we can get that veteran help from the veterans that other teams don’t want.

By MannyT

July 11, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Ken Once a RFA offer sheet is signed, there are no more negotiations. Either team that gets the RFA, gets him under the terms of the offer sheet. No changes.

On the sign & trade, there is no deal until there is a deal. All sides have to agree to a trade. By the way, if I were the Clips, Kaman is not even a S&T topic. A good center is harder to find than a good PF.

doc Ineffective Road Unit?

Immobilized Racing Unit?

WAF

By doc

July 11, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

folks what bucher said on 680 today around 6:30 with buck and kincaid is that josh after wanting long to stay has come to the conclusion it may be time to move on that he is not going to fit or isnt really wanted. the outcome is that he wants a deal between him and the clips that is one that the hawks will not tolerate and therefore will let him go on about his business. bucher wasnt all sunny about josh smith saying that chills was the definite keeper because of his maturity and that right now the owner sterling is having to be sold on how josh is a sure thing to sign on the dotted line.

mikeal whether you like it or not the same issues have been brought up repeatedly on this blog to give merit to or denounce carrying smith further. it is common knowledge not just something espn dreams up. whether it will come down the way he says is an unknown since the real issue is how much confidence there is in smith as the real deal and how SET the budget is in hawk land. astro joe rule number one …. follow the money.

speaking f aj, i wonder if aj has gotten an eye full yet? he if we are lucky is putting together his own favs to share with us as i type now!

manny t you are too much man came up with it on the first try. can you figure out its segue?

By doc

July 11, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

yeauuh ray i too was disappointed that they were remiss to not include bebouncey, but brit was there.

i will be there RICHBRAVE. you da man. cant believe they put money into aenas, he better have some good insurance to fall back on.

By doc

July 11, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

yeauuh ray i too was disappointed that they were remiss to not include bebouncey, but brit was there.

i will be there RICHBRAVE. you da man. cant believe they put money into aenas, he better have some good insurance to fall back on.

By doc

July 11, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

yeauuh ray i too was disappointed that they were remiss to not include bebouncey, but brit was there.

i will be there RICHBRAVE. you da man. cant believe they put money into aenas, he better have some good insurance to fall back on.

By MannyT

July 11, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

kirknga The cap answer is a bit wonky. Bottom line is there is no real cap space due to the cap holds that get applied for the exceptions. Now if we don’t use the exceptions and the Joshes go for the one year tenders, and we sign less than $6 mil of free agents, then we are under the cap.

If Josh Smith signs with us for about $6 over his cap hold number (i.e. 1st yr of new deal over $9 mil) then we are over the cap and BYC rules apply…unless Chills leaves via sign & trade and we take back less than his cap hold ($4.8 mil) in salary.

Keep in mind this is my understanding of the cap, but I am not a professional capologist.

Here is the reference detail used for my info.

FYI, the MAX salary Josh (or any yr 4 player) can get in the first year of a new deal is $14.67 mil. Annual raises can be 8% if offered by another team.

Now off to audition for revenge of the nerds 8 ;-)

WAF

By cp

July 11, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

I have seen some nice players in these summer league games so far. Stuckey is going to be a problem next year.. Al Thornton is the player I wish YKW was. The guy is a beast.. DeAndre Jordan will probaby be a second round steal. They guy can block shots and rebound. Something we needed in a backup. He fell to the second round but our front office felt that we did not need to any any more young talent to the roster. I will not even comment on how about feel about those statements. Im ready to see our guys play next week.

As far as the news of Josh Smith not wanting to come back because of Woody, im not shocked. From what I understand the Clippers can sign him and not have to sign and trade with us. They are way under the cap so I dont know why they would do a sign and trade with us. They would not give up Kaman, Thorton, or Gordon. Other than that all they really have are overpriced vets like Tim Thomas and Mobley. Kaman, Smith, Gordon, Thorton, and Baron Davis would be a nice starting 5. Im ready for this to be settled because we are missing out on some nice free agents. I think we have the MLE but we have not offered anybody anything . If we do have the MLE then I truly dont understand why they would have to wait for the Joshes if they can sign somebody for that MLE anyway.

By doc

July 11, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

ooohh too funny. seems like the blog police are out today. i must have stirred up something down there because the poster of the year award missive is gone. sorry aj.

funny, how someone must have taken offense and sorry the computer blinked as i was looking for something i wrote to manny t a bit back this evening. yep, manny t you got it right the first time, incident response unit.

in looking back it was something i got on aol of all things that was deleted and it was of all women with clothes on and a picture of rachel welch from the movie that she was advertising back in the dark ages about the dark ages that i referred to many moons ago when the funny discussion between astro and i took place. all posters to get at rexall. i dont venture to much further than aol, yahoo, cnnsi, usatoday and ajc and really felt it was a funny follow up to the previous stuff with aj. some folks dont get it i guess, just pure vanilla. wow, somebody making more out of what truly meets the eye if it is so.

where did your mind go.. oh never mind i surely dont want to know.

By doc

July 12, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

whew i dont know what happened to it but glad to know no stuffed shirts among us after all. my bad, computer glitch or maybe this blog has just gotten too dern long and we are heading into the weekend with no restoration in sight unless josh picks up a pen to write his name on a piece of paper.

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

MannyT

Sounds good to me. I’m still having issues reconciling the right to match with BYC. It seems to me that Hawks should be able to match any offer and not have to worry about taking no more than 1/2 back.

Perhaps I need to let it sink in.

By MannyT

July 12, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

doc the segue tea leaves say that it is not a Sund-y day, but he brought rain & PAIN from Seattle. Maybe he’s put as much active useful work into this free agent class as BK has ;-)

If the big accomplishment from this offseason is that we have essentially the same roster, I’m not impressed.

I really hope we are wrong on this. We don’t need to bring in major stars, but real bench contributors are key.

Not going to ruin a weekend thinking about this. It’s like the stock market right now…trending downward.

WAF

By Melvin

July 12, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

Well if the BASG choose not to resign JSmith. How surprising would that be? They (BASG )chose a coach with less than 40% winning record over a 22 yr old stud player thats the face of their franchise.

By doc

July 12, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

money rules are only important if the powers that be elect to spend according to them. for it to have any merit then the BASG has to be ready to go beyond what it has felt comfortable with before and by a significant amount. kind of fun to anticipate it but it is only as good as our own wish list that is quickly being grabbed up. now what do we know, right?

By cp

July 12, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

Doc our wish list is looking more like a sticky note at this point.

By MannyT

July 12, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this

The right to match, BYC and MLE are all independent.

If either of the Joshes signs an offer sheet as a RFA, the Hawks can match. They just don’t have any leverage at that point to change terms. Either you keep the player on the terms of the offer sheet he signed or you let him walk. The fear of us matching is the biggest weapon in getting a decent sign & trade…that’s what started the whole public ASG battle when JJ came here.

IF you sign a player that gets a significant raise and you are over the cap, BYC kicks in. For 6 months or until June 30 (whichever is later) his trade value is 1/2. So if we match a Smith offer for $14 mil in the 1st yr of a multi year deal, we can only trade him for a max of (125% x 1/2 salary) + 100k or 8.85 mil of salary. While there could be a circumstance to do so, it would be unusual because the other team would have to have a player or two that the Hawks wanted and probably a trade exception to deal with their side of getting $14 mil in salary.

We could have signed a MLE deal once the new cap was set. Same is true for all the teams.

Combining exceptions is not allowed if it matters. I.e. if you have to combine exceptions to make the deal work, then the deal doesn’t work. You can have a multiple player deal with multiple exceptions if they could have been done w/o combining exceptions.

…and while he may want more, you can almost lock Chills in for $6 mil in yr 1 because that is more than the MLE. If you really like him you can toss a few more $$$ in, but no need to get past 7 mil.

doc you scared me. The link is still there. Now I’ve bookmarked it.

I am overgeeked. Time to call it a day. WAF

By doc

July 12, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

sorry manny t, it is hard when you cant get your scroll on as well at night anymore.

cp yup the smart guys at the top must have a pretty secretive and exclusive list to go out and get the vets that woody says he needs. i just know it is all going to work out ….. not.

By ray

July 12, 2008 2:40 AM | Link to this

Matt- Again, that was a good assessment (Chicago and Miami). I enjoyed reading it and think it’s on the money unless either or both players really kick it up a notch. Based just on what I’ve seen, I’d put my money on your assessment. We’ll get to see though, won’t we? Beasley has to show more toughness than he has…

CP, I’m not a pessimist. But I am a “face your fears” kind of guy. So here is the scariest scenario to me: Josh Smith and his agent decide it really is time to move on, and he pulls the same act JJ did on Phoenix. ASG and Sund decide not to match. No sign and trade occurs, for whatever reason (most likely because both sides can’t come close to agreeing). We’re left standing there with the cap space and most of the helpful free agents already gone. Guys like Okafor decide that even going back home and not getting as much money as they originally wanted is better than coming here.

Okay! Having said that, I’m looking for best case scenario! Which would be: Sterling and Co decide they are better off pursuing Okafor. Josh Smith decides no amount of money pays for homesickness and Woody can’t be all that bad. Ol’ Uncle Sund reaches in his pocket and jangles the change around a bit before coming out with a few quarters and throws them on top of the $45 million dollar contract, which Josh signs. Sund tells him there’s a dollar he’s willing to add the next time they have to do this. Childress gets 5 or 6 mil per. We sign a decent shooter and another center/power forward type. Life goes on.

Doc, want to hop in my Corvette? We’re gonna take a drive and see if we can find granny.

By ray

July 12, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this

Samuel, Mayo is just the truth. Another D-Wade type. I have been a bit of a Memphis fan for a couple of years. Their backcourt could be rounding into some kind of wonderful shape. Still, it’s a tough learning curve in the West. Best place to learn, though.

By PETer

July 12, 2008 8:02 AM | Link to this

The Hawks are blowing this off-season in so many ways!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MANAGEMENT IS STILL PATHETIC BILLY KNIGHT OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By doc

July 12, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

a moment of silence for one of my mentors michael debakey:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080712/aponreus/obitdebakey

having trained there as a vascular surgeon in his program walking among giants, i saw some unbelievable things and some not so good. these guys of his generation were true pioneers and of a different ilk and perspective on both life and death. though i would shake my head at some of the things i saw and heard and to especially observe his huge ego it is so important to know that there were these types of folks that lead the way to the modern techniques and surgical procedures of today. this type of commitment and reach is sometimes missing in our society today and medicine. what he says about perfection was so true for surgeons, no room for mistakes. he was a very special man, his reach and impact for common good is felt throughout the world. RIP as it was earned.

By clint

July 12, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

You can’t tell me Jarvis Hayes would rather play in the swamp of Jersey than here. Nets have no plans of having a winning team, its all about cap space for the summer of 2010. We are going to be stuck with a couple of guys off of the summer league roster if Sund sits around and brings no one in. I hope he has a trade in the works with somebody because we are not getting any better while many teams in the east are improving themselves.

RESIGN SMOOVE AND CHILLS NOW

By morris

July 12, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

I swear some of you guys who come on here and criticize the hawks for not signing free agents are just plain stupid. Since the hawks have two key restricted free agents of their own it greatly diminishes their ability to participate in free agency. They must wait and see what kind of offers the two joshes will receive before they can just jump head first into free agency. Signing players without knowing how much they must spend to retain the two joshes would not be smart. Sekou has already discussed this point before the free agency period started. Because the hawks front office is adamant about keeping the two joshes they must wait and let the market set the price before moving forward.

By doc

July 12, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

no morris it is you and others that dont realize how crippling it was to not go through this earlier, like last year, if these guys were truly “gonna match” no matter what the offer was. kind of odd to hamstring yourself to getting what you want out there by waiting it out and not taking care of things at home. again it is trying to drive a lamborgini at honda prices. sorry, it is you who are accepting the folly of this thinking and maybe it is your mirror that shuts stupid back. it is stupid to not see the dichotomy of thought there, just maybe.

By doc

July 12, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

no morris it is you and others that dont realize how crippling it was to not go through this earlier, like last year, if these guys were truly “gonna match” no matter what the offer was. kind of odd to hamstring yourself to getting what you want out there by waiting it out and not taking care of things at home. again it is trying to drive a lamborgini at honda prices. sorry, it is you who are accepting the folly of this thinking and maybe it is your mirror that shuts stupid back. it is stupid to not see the dichotomy of thought there, just maybe.

By Ken Strickland

July 12, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

MANNYT-thanks for the update. As always, you are the NBA encyclopedia and can be counted on for accurate info. I’m just hoping the Clippers decide they can fill their PF needs without spending the money needed to acquire Smoove. Having a strong productive C like Kaman gives them more flexibility at PF.

If we do lose Smoove to the Clippers, I like DOC’s idea of going after Okafor and teaming him up with Horford. The only major difference, statistically, between he and Kaman is his poor freethrow shooting(just over 50%). Improving that could increase his 13.8PPG to about 15/16PPG. Add what we get in a sign and trade for Smoove, and we’d probably have no need to sign any costly FA’s.

By newkid

July 12, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

Regards to you doc on the loss of a mentor. May he rest in peace.

By morris

July 12, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

doc, I”m not disputing the fact that the hawks could have offered more than 45 million to smith and locked him up last fall. That would have been a prudent and shrewd move which would have allowed the hawks to dive head first into free agency. My point is they DID NOT so now we are in a situation that doesn’t allow us to chase free agents. I’m not defending management, in fact I am critical of how this organization has been run. Regardless, we are forced to sit it out and wait. Thats THE POINT I’m making here. Sund’s hands are tied my man whether we like it or not.

By Ken Strickland

July 12, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

I have some potentially good news for Hawks fans. It seems the Clippers are interested in initiating a trade with the Knicks for ZRandolph. That would solve their PF problem and give them better outside shooting and rebounding than they’d get from Smoove, without the DEF. It would also be a lot cheaper to trade for Randolph than offering Smoove a large frontloaded RFA contract.

If this trade goes through, when it’s all said and done, Sund and the SAASG might end up in the drivers seat and end up the winners in the sweepstakes for the 2 Joshes.

By doc

July 12, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

thanks newk, an imperious and successful man. you may have known a few as well.

actually headed to a funeral for one of the most important men in my life beyond my father. not as imperious but just as successful on many fronts and with a theological doctorate degree no less. passages.

By travis

July 12, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

I swear some of you guys who come on here and criticize the hawks for not signing free agents are just plain stupid.

Morris you are wrong for calling these bloggers “stupid” We have some great basketball minds on this blog, that i highly respect for their knowledge.

Please refrain from name calling or we will have to go Jesse Jackson on ya, bruh!!

Thanks Doc for clearing things up for Morris

By glw

July 12, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

If the Clippers do offer Smith a front loaded contract, their is a potential sign and trade to consider.

Smith, Speedy Claxton (bad contract) for Shaun livingston (renounced, but still hold draft rights), Brevin Knight, and a couple of 1st round picks.

here is how that deal could make sense. The Clippers have no real tradeable assets, so that would have to give you draft picks. They take Speedy off our hands and to balance Speedy salary (5.5 mill), we sign Shaun LIvingston for about 3 million, and take Brevin KNight. That gives the Hawks lots of salary cap flexibility for next year. Bibby (14.5), ZAZa (4 mil), Livingston and KNight (5.5 mill) and if u choose not to keep Marvin, thats another 7 million, so the Hawks could have potentially 31 million dollars come of the books next year.

Thats the only way I would let Smoove walk. otherwise pay him his money, and move on!!!

By Sautee

July 12, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

kirknga

Boy, you’re really going out on a limb this time. So Josh isn’t worth max salary? REALLY? Who here has EVER said that he was? No one to my knowledge.

You say that you love the give and take, but you are being disingenuous about answering about Josh Smith’s “specific salary”.

Here’s exactly what I asked:

What would you say Smoove’s value is? You say you’d be ok with keeping him. Fine, at what price?

How is that unclear? Yes, I said at what price, and not what specific salary, but c’mon, man you knew what I was asking and you are/were ducking the question. Why?

Nothing about “value” ,just give me a number please.

Actually as you knew, I was trying to get YOU to give me a number. I know that you are not that dense. Why the subterfuge?

But OK, I did give you that number too. Here from my 10:12 p.m. on 7/9 posted specifically to you:

But if they could have signed him at ANYTHING less than the market sets for him now, then I think you’d have to say they were in error for not doing it sooner and showing him some respect in the process.

Remember that as you said, any dollar saved goes toward making the team better somewhere else.

What if we had negotiated 5/52.5?

Would you have said we were overpaying?

You didn’t even give that the courtesy of an answer, though you say: I’m always happy to refine any answer to a legitimate sports related question.

And don’t cop out by just saying yea or nay to 52.5M. That was just to show you that , yes I had given you a specific number.

C’mon Kirk, I have faith that you can do this!

I also said that I know you have the ability to come up with a figure. So you knew what I was asking. Otherwise, why would I mention “coming up with a figure” ?

And Kirk, I’m a Falcons fan too, and NOT a Pats fan. I don’t know where you ever got the idea that I was asking you to “heap praise” on them. But that doesn’t change whether or not you agree with this statement:

Can you not agree that we’d be better of as a franchise if our front office was as savvy and proactive as theirs?

OK Kirk, this one should be easy. Different sports, different caps, but do you agree or disagree with my statement?

peace

By Dr. De

July 12, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Mr. SEKOU

Any thoughts on a Bibby, Speedy, 2010 draft pick for Maubury/David Lee trade?

By Dr. De

July 12, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Mr. SEKOU

Any thoughts on a Bibby, Speedy, 2010 draft pick for Maubury/David Lee trade?

By MannyT

July 12, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

doc your link got chopped, but here you go. Sorry for your loss. Looks like Dr. D was a surgeon/inventor/innovator. Folks like that are the real world changers.

Pioneering heart doctor Michael DeBakey

ken It would be incredibly hard to get Okafor. We don’t have the cap space to make a meaningful offer. We can get our own players back due to Bird rights, but that does nothing for getting others. Not that we would, but we could offer both of the Joshes over $14 mil in yr 1. We can offer Okafor about $5.5-6 mil in yr 1.

That is great news about the Clippers and Zach Randolph. That would help them both and us. I’d bet that NY would give him up for very little in return once it is all said & done. Given all the players the Clippers renounced, there are few left to trade. Give them a week or so and I think they can work it out.

travis you are nuts…and move that knife away from there ;-)

I’m gonna have to check out this online Mayo movement…however, I prefer mustard ;-)

ray,doc when you find granny, check that trunk. Maybe there is evidence in it to explain the deliberate (lack of) movements in free agency.

WAF

By travis

July 12, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

i am still trying to gauge where you all think that the hawks will finish next year, assuming that we sign the joshes and in light of what else has happened in the east.

only matt would go on record as saying that the hawks will finish 5th seed in the east.

im still thinking that they will win fewer than 38games.

thoughts??

By doc

July 12, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

morris, if you say what you mean instead of calling everyone here stupid it works better on the relationship level. if you were sitting at the liars table for he first time i seriously think you would handle yourself that way igf it was eye to eye.

manny t thanks for getting my back. not many folks can have that kind of impact globally as debakey. some of the stories around him are a trip as his ego but not his size was as large as his reach.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

July 12, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

i’m sure this has been mentioned, but if not, here goes:

it sure looks like ASG might get what it sure seems like they really want with Smith and maybe Childress: a one-year deal.

and while i do hope i’m wrong, i don’t think ASG is really willing to commit to anyone or anything unless they have to … at least while this ownership issue is still up in the air.

if the joshes are given a one-year deal, that leaves only johnson, law, horford, claxton on the books for ‘09. for an organization that’s in limbo, that’s the owners version of follow the money …

By Matt

July 12, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Travis,

Nice try. I said 5 to 7.

By ray

July 12, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Doc, my condolences, as I sent in my e-mail to you. A pioneer is partly defined not only by the path he/she cuts, but by the sharing of said path, so that others may follow.

travis, kudos to Matt for making a prediction. I don’t really want to just yet because not even last year’s squad is intact right now. Nor have we any evidence of improvement. Apparently we will continue to wait and see if we can even retain our own players before trying to add the pieces needed to help improvement. In addition, we shall wait and see what other teams tell us what price shall be paid if we are going to do what Sund insists we will do. Matt’s optimism is something I would like to share, but I am reserving my excitement for the moment.

MannyT,

More and more it looks like the Clippers are not trying to go in a new direction, but rather trying to recoup as best they can for Brand’s specific type of production. Translation: they want a more “traditional” power forward who scores reliably in the post. At the moment, that’s not Josh Smith. Nor is it Okafor, as his offense is lacking (free throws hurt this as well). And it appears that Walsh is playing his usual clever game of hardball. It’s reported that right now the initial trade offer was rejected, but both sides are likely to talk again.

glw, that’s an idea. Personally, I’m tired of “cap space”, “draft picks”, and “next year.” But the possibility exists that we are headed for just that. Depends on a few things. Does Josh really want out? Will other teams seek his services rigorously?

Ken, wouldn’t you just LOVE to move on to other subjects besides Josh Smith (and to a bit of a lesser degree..Childress)? I would, but it appears that we are held captive, as no other moves are apparently going to be made in any direction whatsoever until another team tells us what Josh’s worth is…or he simply comes back empty-handed.

I am more than ready for our guys to get cranked up with summer league action. I’m tired already of reading how good other team’s players are doing. Philly’s guys sure look good. Makes me sick.

By ray

July 12, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Sautee, your efforts are admirable, but your faith misplaced, I’m afraid.

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Sautee

Ah, I see, it’s drama you like as well.

Well you have my answer. Matter of fact, I gave an amount on a previous blog. You really want to know so bad, go look it up. Someone proposed a figure, I said yes, no problem with that.

Then again if you believe no one has said he was worth max money then you haven’t been paying attention so that statement is understandable.

“No one”, really? Wasn’t it you who offered a lecture on the use of absolutes?

The Pats cheated. I gave them props for the record, I call Brady a HOF’er. Again, I don’t see the comparison, it’s absurd to me. No I will not hold a cheating organization up as a model of doing things the right way. No no way! You can call it “savy and proactive” all you want. I believe there is serious doubt about how a part of their success came to be.

Again, we disagree about ASG, that’s ok, yours is without doubt the received wisdom here on the blog. I’m not part of the echo chamber and I will not apologize. I think they have played this correctly.

Also, back to our original point of contention, and what you like to ignore is the role of Smith’s side. Your “savy and proactive” comments assumes that Smith would have signed a contract at a certain price if it had been offered.

ASG offered a contract, it was rejected. In regards to whether or not Smith should have been signed already, I do not make the assumptions that his agents advised him not to test the market or that he wants to come back. Those who are now pointing the finger at ASG do make these assumptions., or significantly underplay their centrality in this Summer of Smith suspense!

What is that contract amount? You know, the amount the Hawks didn’t offer Smith that would have kept him a Hawk? I don’t see that figure out there from you and most others? So lets have it. Is yours this beloved $50 million/ 6 years? I wonder about others here?

By Sautee

July 12, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

ray

you got mail

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Sometimes it’s like high school.

By Ken Strickland

July 12, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

RAY-I understand perfectly what you are saying and feeling. However, it appears we are actually doing something after all. I may be wrong, but it appears Sund and the SAASG have a plan. They seem to know that other teams aren’t that willing to pay big money to acquire a player(Smoove) that is still developing and is as much potential as anything else, especially when there are proven veteran alternatives.

If the Clippers trade for Randolph, that would severly limit Smoove’s options. He seems to be more of a backup option for teams that have shown interest in him. After all, as athletically talented as he is, he is fundamentally flawed, and therefore a financial risk for a lot of teams.

If Smoove or Chills accept one yr contracts, we would still be able to resign them next yr. If fact, we’d be better able to sign them to long term contracts then than now because Bibby and Zaza’s contracts(between 19-20M total) will be coming off the books.

We just need to be patient and let this thing play out. And don’t worry about us signing FA’s. Be honest, would you invest serious money on someone coming off the bench, other than Chills, that Woodson might not use, or uee properly?

By Sautee

July 12, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

kirknga

Do you actually read my posts? It would seem not.

At least, not by many of your responses.

If you choose to go back and look, you’ll see that I asked Who here has ever said that Josh was worth the max?

It was a question, and not a statement (apparently you can’t tell the difference) followed by “not to my knowledge”. Are you not smart enough to figure out that I was saying it could have happened, but that I didn’t have knowledge of it?

Yes, you are plenty smart enough, to know this well, but you would rather have a snappy comeback then to deal with the “facts” of what was actually said.

And then you accuse me of creating drama. As Ray has said, “hello pot, my name is kettle”. And wasn’t it a pet peeve of yours that someone “misstated” an earlier position that you had posted? And that was your reason for using “cut and paste”. How’s this any different?

(by the way, if you look again -not likely- you’ll see that I was saying 5/60 as the max I thought he was worth and NOT 6/50. But that’s ok, I’ve transposed many a number in my days.

And how do these two statements by you gibe?

I’m always happy to refine any answer to a legitimate sports related question.

You really want to know so bad, go look it up.

Seems kinda petty there, Kirk, but we must do as we do, as you told Ray. Maybe you should change that to

“I’m sometimes happy to refine any answer to a legitimate sports related question.”

Go your own way, man, but when you act like you really want give and take and then shy away from hard answers, it cheapens your overall positions. It’s a shame, ‘cause you do have some worthy thoughts to discuss, but you seem to shy away from anything but these hard edge comebacks. There’s actually nuance here on the blog, but I suspect it’s lost on you. More’s the pity.

By RealSquawk

July 12, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

To sign Smith and Childress to a one year deal would be pointless

you all have to realize that our image to the rest of league is more important than Josh Smith and Childress resigning, but it is also very related we need to show the league we appreciate our players and we are willing to do right by them and pay them what they are worth

that is what will help us bring quality free agents to our team

thats why signing Smith and Childress to a one year deal would be wrong and harmful to the team

By stevo

July 12, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

ok, i could not resist any longer, ray continues to be one of the biggest jacka$$es on any blog anywhere (yeah,yeah, woo woo police, ding ding, ‘hey, you got mail buddy’ and all that - fools in folly for sure), and he is unavoidable because he is ALWAYS on this thing and writes a million words. if ever there was a man who needs his own blog (so that those who really like him can read him and the rest of us can have a normal public forum for the team), he is it.

anyway, two points:

1) ray says something to the effect that ‘we better not go through this nonsense with horford in two years’. and what ‘nonsense’ is that? negotiating? trying to get the best deal for the hawks team as a whole? maybe, maybe not. if horford develops into a consistent 20/10 inside force, then he will likely get the max, no questions asked. josh smith is not that player. when discussing him, the word ‘potential’ is still a big part of the equation, which is why we are going through all this ‘nonsense’.

2) which leads to the second point, that we are ‘letting others’ dictate our price. ray really is not very bright, don’t most of you agree? (i can see all the silent nods of heads at home for those who mainly read and not write). yes, the hawks are letting the market dictate josh’s price. this is as opposed to, say, negotiating against themselves? maybe they will have to pay a huge number ($15 mil per) as opposed to say $10 or $11 mil, which they probably felt out and got no response. but at least they will know this is what the market set, as opposed to just guessing and letting smith dictate things alone. it is called negotiating.

look, all you people who cannot handle this process (and there seems to be a lot of you - led by ray; but i think it is more for lack of other life interests or activities versus any sound reasoning or rationale) need to get a hobby, or better yet, some semblance of a life (i know, i still remember dr. mary saying she, and most of you, are type a personalities who are so successful that you have so much free time and you use all that type a free time to blog about the hawks offseason - does this logic puzzle anyone else?). anyway, read a book (i know, you just read the odyssey, ulysses, war & peace, and don quixote last week and are bored from all that - but have you read the new grisham?), learn a foreign language (i know, you speak five, but what about one of the dead languages?), take up a new sport (i know,….well, you get the point), learn an instrument, make some new human flesh friends, join a political group, volunteer, travel, whatever. just try to find something to do besides spend every waking minute worrying about the fact that an agreement with josh smith was not reached at 12:00am july 1st and signed 12:00am july 9th.

ray is definitely the loser leader for this group, but even some of you have to admit, you have taken things to a new extreme.

anyway, as for the hawks, i applaud their handling of this and it looks like one of three things will happen:

1) they are forced to match - even at a high number, so be it, at least they know they had to do this and didn’t force it on themselves.

2) josh comes back with no offers and is in a weakened bargaining position, and the hawks save a few million a year or so (probably still like $13 mil for five at least).

3) josh plays hardball and goes for a one year offer for unrestricted next year - huge risk for him, he is definitely no sure thing, so i can’t see that happening in a million years. even if it does, the hawks have the advantage next year too, and it means more incentive for josh to play his a* off this year.

cheers!

By Ken Strickland

July 12, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

REALSQUAWK-be that as it may, you can’t force a player(s) to accept whatever you’re offering. If either Josh rejects whatever contract we offer, would you refuse to sign them just because of some potential league wide image? What kind of message are you sending throughout the league when you refuse to offer a 1yr contract just because the player(s) refuses to accept the contract(s) you’re offering?

In basketball, sometimes it raally is better to put off until tomorrow something that can’t be done today.

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Sautee

I see you’ve gone off on more non-basketball related tangents. This is surely going to bring more praise now!

You’ve gotten your approval, your shout-out so seriously what was the point of that last post? More approval?

Sorry, but I just can’t take myself or anyone here talking about a kids game that seriously. From the tenor of your comments it would seem that you are really frustrated. That I have somehow cause so much negative energy to come forth is regrettable. I don’t get the drama and finger pointing, but then again this isn’t a serious endeavor for me.

All this talk about pity(huh? who asked for pity…guess that doesn’t matter) and how I should think about things or talk about things is beside the point, I have never venture into such territory unless dragged there by others.

Like I said, I think ASG has played this well, I think the only important thing is winning no matter what the roster looks like or what time table they adhere to in completing the roster , I will support my team(players and organization) no matter what.

I stand by that. I will repeat those points again, when and how I please.

Also, I do not make the same set of assumptions that many here do.

Namely, that there was some price that the Hawks failed to offer Smith that resulted in him out on the market now when he could have been signed already had the Hawks offered that price. I said that his value would be determined by the market which is true. Whatever he signs for that will be his monetary value.

I stand by this as well.

Did I ,upon your demand pull a “price” out the side of my neck and present it as if it was anything more than an under-informed guess(none of us knows the extent of negotiations between Smith and the Hawks), no I didn’t and, I told you why and also stated the market will determine Smith’s value, price, salary.

I also told you you could find a specific number in a previous post(apparently you didn’t look it up huh?) Again, I find it regrettable that this caused you to say some of the things in your last post, but oh well.

I stand by that too!

I do read your posts, as well as everyone who has something to say on this blog. I have rarely commented, but I do read this blog daily.

I look at it is most here are fans. They are fans of the same team I am a fan of and so I don’t see any of you as an enemy,a target for scorn, as possessing suspicious motives or character, and I don’t hold any negative energy towards anyone from the start or as a result that you may hold a different perspective from mine.

If you or anyone disagrees with my stances, then, ok, that doesn’t threaten me in the least bit; such is the nature of a sports blog. Give and take…about sports.

All that other stuff man? Well let’s just say attitude is never a serious substitute for substance, not to me at least.

If you want to go on your way, then do what you have to do.That’s your call. I’m going to have my take regardless.

By cp

July 12, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

Ken it was reported yesterday that the Clipps effort to get Randolph fell thru so it wont be a Zack to Clippers deal. It is being reported that they rather have Okafur but I guess we will have to wait and see as we have all summer.

Once again I could be wrong but I believe we have the MLE so we could have offered a shooter or a big a contract. Jarvis Hayes and Patrick O’Bryant were had for cheap so im pretty sure we could have used the MLE to get those guys. Like I said yesterday its looking like we will use the guys from the summer league to fill out our bench.

By Sautee

July 12, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

kirk

I’ll stand by my entire 5:34 post, especially the last paragraph. The reasons are all included there, self evident for those who have eyes.

We won’t change each others minds on this one, that’s for sure. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

See you around the blog. Or not. And watch out for those absolutes! (Not a lecture, or a warning, just friendly advice) ;-)

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

*See you around the blog. Or not. *

Like I said, your call. We’ll all be ok either way.

By AJC Referee

July 12, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

(Blows whistle, throws two yellow hankies, and addresses the crowd.)

We have two fouls on the blog. The first penalty is for silly feud blogging. We have Kirknga who is guilty of the infraction. The second foul is on Sautee. (Same thing.) The two 15 minute penalties off set, therefore both bloggers are encouraged to continue typing.

Former participant, Ray, has been issued a sideline warning.

Now about the Hawks…..maybe Sekou will emerge and give you fellas an update, assuming the Atl brass ever gets anything done. Peace and post politely.(LOL!)

By ray

July 12, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

Ken, I would never call you wrong for hoping or even assuming that Sund and the ASG have a plan. Proclaiming it as a fact and saying that it is the right plan? Now that’s something different altogether. Patience or not, we have no choice but to let this thing play out, seeing as how none of us here have anything whatsoever to do with the decision making process. Unless of course, one of the owners or Sund himself is blogging right along with us and we just don’t know it….

Anyway, putting the tin foil hat aside (yes, I still have my sense of humor and always will)…the word right now is that the Zach Randolph trade has been kaboshed. As for how Josh is being viewed: yes, he is fundamentally flawed, but he can improve in those areas. I don’t think it’s as much about his flaws as it is about his fit. The Sixers needed a low post scoring power forward. I have no doubts they would have taken Jamison if he hadn’t re-signed with the Wizards so quickly. The Clippers are trying to replace the very guy the Sixers managed to sign. They sought to acquire another of the same type of power forward in Zach Randolph. The trend is obvious at this point and leads to one conclusion from what I can see: Josh Smith does not fit what these teams want the MOST, unless they are willing to change their style of play.

You’re absolutely right: Josh is a back-up or option if the other moves don’t go through. Many times we’ve debated whether Josh is a power forward or a small forward. I have long argued (as have others) that he is a better fit as a small forward, and it appears that other teams kind of see it that way as well.

One sports writer said it like this (and I paraphrase, rather than quote exactly): Josh Smith can guard any given player on any given night, but do you really want him going up against the power forwards of the west night after night? Nope. You don’t. Which is why he’s a back-up plan for the Clippers. We may yet see him in a Hawks uniform. Or we may not. But we have no choice other than to wait and see.

By ray

July 12, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Sautee, sometimes there is a reason that it is “the road less traveled by.” Somebody forgot to mention that to Robert Frost, I think.

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

the praise

By ray

July 12, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

AJC Referee, warning taken. But don’t I at least get to reply to my one man fan club, Stevo? I’m just answering the mail, I promise.

Hello there Stevo.

I almost don’t know where to begin, buddy. Um, let me start with saying that I prefer the term court jester to jack-a$$, but I suppose you can call it what you want. While I certainly don’t take this seriously enough to have my dignity offended very much, I also enjoy engaging in both Hawks related and non-basketball related conversations. I even like to yank a chain or two.

So I’m unavoidable, am I? I suppose the sight of my name and a simple scroll down would do the trick. While not nearly on the same level as those talking heads on AM radio, you know where and when to find me. With them, you either avoid the station, or their broadcast times, or you can just push that on/off button. Same here. I’m sure if the AJC sees me as the disease you want to paint me as, they’ll find a way to boot me off. Perhaps you can petition them to do so. And then you can sign the petition a multitude of times to show how much support you have.

By the way, you may actually have trouble supporting that sentiment based on this one line of yours:

ray is definitely the loser leader for this group, but even some of you have to admit, you have taken things to a new extreme.

Insulting me is one thing. However, you didn’t name any names, so basically you have called anybody who either shares a similar view as mine or otherwise disagrees with your particular view….a loser. Wow. I’m sure you can “turn the tide” now.

What amuses me to no end is all the hate you have for me. But it confuses you and puts the lie to my words. I’m such a loser. So much of a loser, and jack-a$$, and whatever other names you can think of…that you just cannot stop reading my posts word for word. How compelling a loser I must be for you to religiously follow along, enough so that you know precisely what my viewpoints are and how much I write, or even how often I am here.

Okay, so we disagree on a few things. Why all the noise? And why the accusation that I am “leading” so many people? I believe that this blog, like any other, is merely a place of discussion where people can share opinion and then agree or disagree with each other. It is as simple as that. I would not consider myself a particularly compelling writer of any sort, yet perhaps your existence would suggest otherwise. I mean…when a guy who hates you (but doesn’t know you) follows your contributions to the very letter, saying that you are unavoidable and he can’t resist replying….what does that really say? More importantly, does it say something about me….or is it really saying something about YOU?

My advice, though you are not likely to care to take it…is to get over me. And get over yourself. We can’t all agree to everything that each of us says. And that is no reason to be upset.

You know what else is funny? I have called you no names, not even the last time you came after me. Yet you cannot bring yourself up to that same level. I don’t know where you’re from, but where I’m from…it’s never a good thing to show less class than the loser you’re trying to expose. It’s called hypocrisy. Apparently yours knows no bounds.

Cheers.

By Sautee

July 12, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

AJC Referee

That was most excellent. A BIG LOL here.

Guilty as charged. My apologies to the blog for my indulgence.

And here’s hoping none of you have to go through having your words twisted in a reply.

By ray

July 12, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

kirk, what’s “the praise”? Just curious. Looks like your comment just got cut off. Happens to us all. Unless of course, you’re alluding to something that you do not feel like spelling out.

RealSquawk, that is certainly one way of looking at it. I think that bears consideration, at the very least.

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Mr. AJC Referee

Sorry about that..guilty as charged! I promise not to feed the animals anymore.(so to speak)

By Ken Strickland

July 12, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

RAY-good points. I remember one other thing that was said about the Clippers and Smoove. They said the Clippers want to get more physical, and Okafor or Randolph, not Smoove, will help them accomplish that. Smoove hasn’t proven himself to be a consistent inside scorer, so far. That seems to be what the West coast teams are looking for now. I also think they want to be more physical to better matchup with teams like the Suns and the Lakers. Now we have Dallas resigning Diop in order to become more physical in the middle.

Everyone is touting how we need a shooter. Well, we had 2 on the bench last yr(Salim and Richardson)and Woodson refused to properly utilize either. Adding shooters and BIGS to the bench means nothing if Woodson doesn’t change his limited approach to utilizing his players and managing their mins properly.

I also read where the proposed Randolph trade was on hold. The Knicks are looking for contracts that expire in 2010 and the Clippers have two, TThomas and CMobley, and the cap room to sign Randolph. The Knicks are trying to get more talent to go with those 2010 expiring contracts they’re seeking. I also read where the salaries don’t have to match, for some reason. It’s believed they will revisit the trade a little later.

I believe the Hawks are willing to match any large frontloaded contracts for both Joehes because Bibby and Zaza’s contracts expire at the end of this season.

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

*kirk, what’s “the praise”? Just curious. *

ray what a surprise!

I think I’ll take your advice, um let’s see, how did you put it…“the road less traveled..”

Hope you are well ray, thanks for saying hi.

By ray

July 12, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Stevo,

One other thing. If complaining or otherwise stating an opinion on this blog, however many times its done, is indicative of a lackluster or empty real life, then what is following those same people and then taking the time to crack down on them indicative of? Even more ludicrous is the bevy of suggestions on how to conduct a real life. It would be folly in and of itself to take suggestions from someobdy who is a total stranger that has taken the time to insult you, having no clue what your personal life consists of. Perhaps you would do well to follow your own advice.

By ray

July 12, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

Kirk, I have to be honest and say that I am more than a little confused. The title of Robert Frost’s poem was in referrence to a situation that Sautee and I were talking about via e-mail, due to my being away from home and without the services of my cell phone, which he has ribbed me for not answering. Since he didn’t answer my return e-mail, I prompted him on the blog.

I realize that may have caused some confusion…I guess. Other than that…I remain confused myself. I only commented because I’m not used to two word posts from you. Kind of got my attention. Of course, I’ve seen you and Sautee are back at it again, but I didn’t read very much of it. Perhaps I’ll go back and do so.

Other than frustrated from speaking to Sprint customer reps who don’t speak much english, I’m fine. How are you?

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

steveo

Reading your post was very insightful. I see we share a similar perspective.

Do you think that Smith’s agents advised him not to sign any deal with the Hawks (unless it was the max) and so part of the responsibility for this waiting period belongs to Smith as well?

Also, have you noticed that there are other UFA’s out there with some value that haven’t been signed as of yet…can it be that all of those teams are misguided as some suggest ASG is with Smith?

Hope you’re still around, sorry I didn’t comment on your very interesting post earlier as I allowed myself to succumb to some of the very things you spoke about in your post.

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

I’m great ray thanks a bunch.

By ray

July 12, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Sautee, finally got the cell phone nonsense cleared up. It’s back on. The only problem is that it’s at home. Stupid me. If it makes you feel any better, my officers are kinda pi$$ed at me, too. They’ve taken to calling me more on the cell than they do on the radio. All night it’s been “Sarge! You’re not answering your phone, is everything okay?” As if I needed looking after….Besides, it’s not like I’m not answering the radio either…it’s gonna be a long 12 hours.

By ray

July 12, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Oh, I see now….ha ha ha! It took me a minute Kirk, but after reading yours and Sautee’s posts, I figured out the “praise” comment. Well, you’re off base if you think I was “praising” Sautee for arguing with you, but no harm, no foul. Well, assuming that you are insinuating such a thing. If I’m wrong in my assumption, I do apologize and stand corrected.

Glad to see you have found a friend in dear ol’ Stevo. I’m surprised that his name-calling, personal obsession, and drama didn’t put you off (seeing as how you don’t like that kind of stuff). But then, when one finds a kindred spirit, one is willing to overlook those imperfections that you are more than willing to point out in others….

Ken, you’ve made some good points yourself…but then you always have. We disagree to a point on the methods used by management, but I can appreciate your class and lack of abrasion in doing so. Cannot say the same for some, but they say that this is what makes the world go ‘round. I agree on the Woodson sentiments, but we’ve hashed that one out many times.

However, I don’t think that we should avoid improvement of the team because of the coach. On the one hand, we know quite clearly what the problems are with the coach. Why it was a good idea to keep him around is beyond me. I would have rather seen Larry Drew promoted if he wanted the job, and Woodson signed as a last resort, but hey…I don’t make those decisions. I still think Sund and the ASG should do what they can to make the team better.

Failing to improve the product due to a problem with the head coach is bad management to me. Get rid of the coach, if it’s really that much trouble! With my limited knowledge of the situation, I can only say that this points right back to finances.

By kirknga

July 12, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

ray

I don’t know steveo* but he agrees with me about ASG, so I asked him some basketball related questions so what? Why you felt the need to comment on that and run with it I don’t know but you’ll have to go bait someone else with the non-basketball stuff tonight my friend.

Be Well!

By Malone

July 12, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

I think Woodson will be on a very short leash.

Drew will impress in Summer League and if we get off to a 6-9 start with the same “Core 8,” I think Woody will get canned.

By HB Ando

July 12, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

To save myself the time of an unenthusiastic effort, I’m going to point to Sautee’s July 11th, 11:21 AM post, and say, “what I’m sayin’”.

Seems like a lot of effort (redundantly groundhog-esque, still and again) is being put into predicting how the Hawks will do this next season, WITHOUT anyone knowing what the roster is going to look like. Not sure what you can base an opinion, like the Hawks making the playoffs again, when you don’t even know who they’ll put on the floor.

I will say this: if they re-sign the Josh’s, and essentially keep last years’ roster intact, then they WILL NOT make the playoffs. Feel free to quote me, and call me on it come next April.

BUT, if you do, be man enough to acknowledge the quote when I turn out to be right. I have no problem owning up to being wrong, if that’s how it plays out.

I just think that several Eastern teams have gotten better, while we appear to be standing pat with a continually flawed roster make up, for a 37-win team.

But, like the Hawks, several teams in the East still have to deal with their restricted free agents, so it’s just as tough to predict how any of them will do, as it is to predict the Hawks.

I was pleased to see some curious names on the summer league team. SS says we need a shooter, and I’d like that role to be filled by some a bit taller than the diminutive Salim. So if Luke Jackson can shake off the residual effects of his ongoing battles with a bad back, he could be a compelling addition. Same with Simeon, who has battled shoulder and knee operations since entering the league. Don’t know if either or both are back to full health, but if either is, they could be quite a surprise. Also some big men in the mix, and I remember Justin Williams as a raw athlete, who was a tremendous shot blocker in college (but I don’t know if that just makes him a copy of S. Jones).

Still don’t see how the Hawks keep last years’ roster together without ramping the team’s salary number to $65+ million. And I still don’t believe they’re willing or able to spend that kind of money.

I have to admit to being pretty nervous about Sund as the GM. Not convinced we upgraded that slot very much, and given my fairly well known opinion of Billy Knight, that statement should speak volumes about my level of concern.

Don’t like keeping Woody at all.

Like to see a move, any move, that would give us a hint of what the plan is, going forward. I expect we’ll match any offer for Smith, with the intent of keeping him, or using his contract to make a deal that makes the team better (in other words, even if he’s signed to an offer sheet that is larger than a general consensus agrees is reasonable, it doesn’t mean we have to either let him go, or immediately agree to a sign-and-trade with the signing team; we could match, and then look to trade him for more than we could have gotten from, say, the Clippers, who don’t appear to have anything we’d want/they’d be willing to give, to make us want to sign-and-trade Smith with them).

I’m still looking for a hint of creativity or inspiration from the ASG and their front office. I just don’t feel particularly hopeful that any such movement is on the immediate horizon.

But, for now, it’s more hurry up and wait.

One more thing, Stevo, your assessment of Ray’s intellect is so far off base, that it easily stands to underscore your own, definitive lack of the same. You may not agree with what he has to say, or how he likes to say it, but you just appear clueless standing behind an opinion that Ray’s not smart.

Yet another summer of sniping, with no real news to drive fresh, daily conversation here.

I am Bill Murray, waking every morning to the same song on the alarm clock……

By MannyT

July 12, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

If I could get avatars for you guys (or many other bloggers), put them on second life, and have a Vince McMahon character, I could be virtually rich.

Let me tell you bruthaaaaa… I pity the fool who doesn’t see it like it is. I predict virtual pain when I get Big Blogger in a steel laptop match with Name Caller…

Speaking of basketball, guess who found Brian Butch. He is barely playing in summer league. Not for Boston as they don’t have a team. Not for us…Sekou got any scoop on this one?

IBEW Irreverent Bloggers Exposing Weaknesses wants to know that was more appealing for Brian Butch to go there instead of here?

I’m surprised all the NBA Summer League watching didn’t pick this up.

Not sure losing a summer league guy counts as PAIN, but it does make me wonder what exactly is the GM team doing? Has anyone seen them? Does granny have them locked in the car trunk because they made her miss bingo?

I know most are glad that BK is gone, but so far is this really any better? More Woody, still limited info. Just a nicer version of I have nothing useful to say to the media.

hmmmmm

By MannyT

July 12, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Hey Ando good to see you are still out there.

I laugh when I see the BK vs Sund statement. Long ago when you pointed out that most good coaches would not want to work for BK, I think I mentioned a similar concern about bringing in a top GM working for the ASG.

Hope all is well otherwise. If this counts as too friendly to all the blog battlers, let me throw in a I’ll see you at halftime. 20 paces for a pretzel throwdown in early November bruthaaaaa

LOL

By MannyT

July 13, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

doc I came across a DeBakey obit with several links in it. Might be worth looking at. The engineer and machine shop outside the OR thing cracks me up. I love creative non-standard forms of innovation.

Oops. I forgot to be a hard blogger again. Early November—I’ll see you before the game, 5 paces—popcorn battle, wooooooooooo

Man all this toughness is going to turn me into a November pudgeball ;-)

By ray

July 13, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

MannyT, good pick-up. I missed that about Butch. I know he was originally on the summer league roster. Good dang question though, what IS our GM doing? And for right now, I have to say that NO this isn’t any better than BK. However, it’s not been long enough to really judge. All the same….

By the way, that short rap freestyle was pretty funny. You WILL see me next year on the pretzel thing. Lookin’ forward to it! Enough battling for me. It was cheap amusement for a minute, but…very little philosophical or intellectual stimulation.

Ando, good to know you’re recovery is going well enough for you to at least visit for a minute. Got your e-mail, by the way. Keep to the rules and recovery is faster. Although I know you, it ain’t nearly fast enough now, LOL!

Thanks for having my back. Up to your usual bold predictions, I see. Of course, it is nice to know that somebody can actually stand by what they say and acknowledge being wrong or right. Some people like to make this claim, but their evasiveness and penchant for word-twisting put the lie to their words. Ah well, such as it is. Interesting take on some of our summer league guys. Jacobsen has been a disappointment. Simeon was a guy I thought was better than Sheldon Williams in college. I’d like to see him do well and get a spot on our team.

Malone, we can only hope so. I like to think that Larry Drew was retained for just that reason. Based on some things I have heard, he has a much better relationship with the players, which has to help. We certainly cannot ignore how he has done with the summer league teams. Last year, I noticed how well the guys responded to him. One of the biggest things was how Horford and Sheldon played the hi-low post….and how effective it was. Sheldon actually looked good like that, albeit among summer league players. But still….I’ll be watching how that goes again this year.

I look forward to mini-camp, training camp, whatever. And the stuff Sekou will be reporting. Hopefully by then we might actually know a bit more about what kind of team the Hawks will field this year. Well, we won’t know about all the final cuts right away, but I sure would like to know about two current players in particular, ya know?

By ray

July 13, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

Manny…you gotta quit….LOL…there are no Suge Knights here.

By cp

July 13, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

It looks like granny has pulled into a rest stop and has taken a nap.

By doc

July 13, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

zzzzzzzzz!

thanks manny t on the dr d article. all those things were so true and more as i reflect more floods in. most intense and driven year of my life there. crazy, but it was with some humor that so many instruments were made by him you often just had to say debakey’s and the scrub nurse had to decide between about twenty different instruments that all bore his name whether it be clamps, forceps, suture holders, vascular clamps or needle holders. one day if interested we could sit down and fill most of it just with stories of him or about him if there was enough beer and pretzels. he was definitely a god of surgery.

By SalimFan

July 13, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

Here’s what Hoops Hype had to say about our new AWSOME GM Rick Sund…

Atlanta Hawks: Can this be right? The Hawks are coming off their first playoff appearance since the 1998–99 season, a club that took the Boston Celtics to a seven-game series. And for the first time in a long time, Atlanta had the makings to stack their roster over the summer in hopes of returning to the postseason. Apparently new general manager Rick Sund has other plans – ones that do not include acquiring free agents. Instead the Hawks are on the verge of losing two integral parts of their roster in restricted free agents Josh Smith and Josh Childress. Smith just finished visiting the Los Angeles Clippers in hopes of replacing the departed Elton Brand, while Childress could still be a possibility for Philadelphia. So what will Atlanta do? The better question may be, when will they do anything?

Here’s The link to the full Article

By ray

July 13, 2008 2:22 AM | Link to this

SalimFan, appreciate the link as always.

I’ll tell you what I’d like to see. Somebody post me just one link, just one current link that shows, states, or even alludes to any positive outlook on our front office. That excludes the usual compliments that Billy Knight received for bringing the talent he brought to this team. You know, I never really like Knight very much, but there is one thing to note here: According to Gearon, Knight left of his own accord. Why? Probably for the same reason that heads are shaking around the league: the team is talented, although largely leaderless and without a solid direction. The players are worthy of the respect they get.

The front office is not. And you won’t find a link that says otherwise. Of course, it would be entertaining to be proven wrong.

By SalimFan

July 13, 2008 2:53 AM | Link to this

……Ray as soon as you said find one, I was already shaking my head in defeat.

But I do have something a lot more interesting. Derick Rose being Compared to Mike Bibby

By SalimFan

July 13, 2008 3:16 AM | Link to this

Also was anyone aware that Marvin Williams has a contract with Reebock (whick explains why he’s been wearing that same shoe for the whole season ugh!). But thats not the problem. The problem is “Team Marvin Williams”.

That’s right Ladies and Gents. Marvin is a COACH for his on squad during the RBK Camp………..Granted the camp only lasts a couple of days but.

IF ANYONE SHOULD BE GETING COACHED RIGHT ABOUT NOW IT’S MARVIN HIMSELF. HE SHOULDIN’T BE COACHING HIGHSCHOOL PROSPECTS IN HIS SPARE TIME……Granted he’s probably not doing much actual COACHING, but you get what i’m trying to say……..though he IS obligated considering he has a contract with them…..but that’s NOT the point. Give the damn team to Iverson, that guy doesn’t NEED to work on his jumpshot right now.

At this point in the off-season you should be transitioning from your rest-period to conditioning and workouts. For marvin that’s should be MAKING 500 3PT SHOT’S DAILY. Info

……Sund, were waiting…..you any day now. It’s like a drought that won’t end. WHERE’S THE RAIN!!!!!!! PAIN!!!!!

By SalimFan

July 13, 2008 3:38 AM | Link to this

Well since there’s no new news i’ll post a follow-up.

Some of you might remeber me posting a while back about Mike and Henry Bibby’s relationship. I really should have posted this back in May when it was fresh but the Hawks actually had a lot going on back then so I didn’t bother.

So for you’re viewing boredom……I mean Pleasure I present the Mike and Henry Bibby Fathers day Special

No applause please……..guy’s stop it, you’re too kind, your tears are too much…..it’s not necessary REALLY. Besides I respond better to Cash and Gifts (That’ll get you an Encore)……Just right the check out to the SalimFan foundation, i’ll make sure your charity has an impact on society…..really, you can trust me. Just like Woodson trusts Salim……I mean Joe Johnson…..Right heh.

By Ken Strickland

July 13, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

DOC-I am so sorry for your loss. I’ve learned that the closeness one feels for someone doesn’t always require sharing the same blood running through your veins, just the same love and respect that resides within our hearts.

RAY-when I said Sund and the SAASG had a plan, I was being just a bit sarcastic. They really do have a plan, and it seems to be based on letting the market dictate what they do and just wait it out. So far, it seems to be working. They’ve allowed Philly, their #1 concern, to eliminate themselves. Now, the Clippers are in the mix, and they’ve shown their preference for an alternative(trading for ZRangolph) to offering Smoove a huge contract. As it seems to be playing out, the rest of the NBA doesn’t seem to share the same high opinion of Smoove’s overall development, impact and/or worth, as some Hawk fans.

Maybe, just maybe, Sund understood this and decided if other teams are reluctant to overpay, why shouldn’t we be as well. I think Smoove and his agent might have overestimated his overall value in the open market, and are just now finding that out. So far, they’ve appeared to be nothing more than a backup option for interested teams. Unless Smoove really wants to go elsewhere, he should end up accepting a contract with the Hawks for somewhere between what the Hawks offered and what he and his agent wanted.

All of us regulars share the same opinion on the resigning of Woodson, WHY. As the season progresses, and his idiosyncrasies manifest themselves, we will undoubtedly be asking that same question with more and more frenquency.

By Ernest

July 13, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Thought this was an interesting exchange from a popular Hawks blog:

Is there a certain date that would be considered a deadline for the Hawks or any other team? How long could all this go on with JS or JC?<<

This will go on until the players and the team come to a mutually agreeable contract. Hopefully we’ll know the market value of both players as soon as the first RFA signs an offer letter. The players always have the option to take a one year tender and become an UFA next year.

Unless the Hawks have ‘an understanding’ with several remaining unrestricted FAs, I believe it is in their best interest to resolve the contract situation sooner rather than later. Obviously the sooner they have an understanding of what the makeup of the team will be, true planning (along with marketing campaigns) can begin. Many things are on hold until the Joshes contract situations are resolved.

Until then, all we fans can do is speculate as to what will happen. It will happen when it happens…..

By Sautee

July 13, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Ando

“I have to admit to being pretty nervous about Sund as the GM. Not convinced we upgraded that slot very much, and given my fairly well known opinion of Billy Knight, that statement should speak volumes about my level of concern.”

You said a mouthful, bud. Scares me to death, that we’ve possibly gone from frying pan to fire.

If the teams that finished just above where we did (Philly and Toronto) have made major moves, and we seem to seek to remain at “status quo”, what does that say about our commitment to getting to the top half of the East, all lip service aside?

By SalimFan

July 13, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Sheddin some light on the Brand Fiasco

By Ken Strickland

July 13, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

SAUTEE-There’s no doubt the Hawks will be improved if we return our top 7 players. We’ll have a healthy Bibby for the entire season. With a season of experience under his belt, and an offseason to work on his gm, Horford will be improved. The same can be said for Marvin and Smoove. ALaw will be more confident and determined, although he might receive the same kind of treatment and inconsistent crap from Woodson that Salim received after his rookie yr. And we all saw how that aided his overall development.

I just don’t think this is the TYPE of improvement that will get us over the hump against teams that have improved their rosters. The TYPE of improvement we’re counting on won’t overcome what EBrand brings to the table, especially with Woodson calling the shots.

The biggest improvement the Hawks could realize would be by consistently running an uptempo OFF, effectively utilizing our bench, doing a much better job of managing our key players mins, and using more in gm strategy. That’s all on Woodson. Taking the Hawks to the next level will depend more on the improvement of HC Woodson, more than any FA additions.

By travis

July 13, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

No b.s. I’m down in Orlando with the wife and kids and I see this tall azz dude and it’s Rasheed Wallace at Sea World, with his kids!!

I kindly say (didn’t want him to go ‘sheed on me) “We would love to have you in the “A”, bruh.”

He replied, “Y’all had me for a day. We’ll see what happens.”

Would you all consider a Josh(es) for Rasheed?

Pistons benefit by getting younger and we get a big, so Horford can get to the 4spot

By ntrigue

July 13, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Hawks need to try and sign someone like JJ Redick or Carlos Delfino so we can have an extra shooter and we need to try to get someone like Kwame brown or Craig Smith from the bucks for a big man. Sekou your thought on these suggestions???

By Astro Joe

July 13, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Nothing quite like having Ando repeat his drive-by posts (“I see nothing new has changed. You guys are still talking about the same ole stuff. Our GM sucks, our coach sucks and our owners suck. And a blogger has falsely accused me or a buddy of something foul. Nothing new here, I’ll drive-by in 2 weeks and repeat the same thing about Groundhog Day and how none of YOU are introducing original thoughts). Glad that you are back to your pompous self Ando, seems like a full recovery is imminent.

Any who, my latest thought is that Sund’s consultant contract was bought out by Gearon. He has the title of GM but he is essentially still playing the role of consultant, this time to Gearon. Junior is still making the decisions and Sund is being paid a modest fee (as reported Friday by John Kincade) to have the title for administrative purposes. But I get the distinct feeling his autonomy is comparable to what he had last year in Seattle.

Why does Ando (and all others who have stayed faithful to the blog since June) feel like nothing has changed? Because the originator is still in charge. Sund is Hai Karate sprayed over the source of the funk. And with every passing week that we don’t do anything to better our squad, the fragrance of the Dollar Store cologne begins to subside… leaving us nothing but the aroma of the ASG stinch.

Rick Sund, whatcha gonna play next? “I don’t know, but whatever I play, it’s gonna be FUNKY”.

By Najeh Davenpoop

July 13, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Childress for Sheed, sure. Smith for Sheed, no.

By travis

July 13, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Questions

1. please confirm, someone mentioned earlier that a team can go over the salary cap to resign one of their own free agents. So, can’t the hawks go ahead a sign whatever free agents available to contracts and still be allowed to go over to resign the Joshes?

2. when does the cat/mouse game end as far as signing rfa/fa? Will this wait and see with the Joshes go into training camp in October?

3.lastly, assuming that we sign the Joshes, and no one gets injured, do you see us keeping Bibby past the trade deadline?

I know that I am wwwwaaayyy ahead of the game, but in the absences of any news on the Hawks front, I figured I could get some answers to thoughts that I been having.

By mykhalc

July 13, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

haven’t kept up fellas. but i’ll say this…the HAWKS are waitin’ for someone to do their work. i just wonder how long they’ll wait. nothin’ like puttin’ together a team BASG style!!! RIDICULOUS!!!!

By Astro Joe

July 13, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Travis, you’re assuming that our owners have a nice pot of money to work with and after 3-4 years, there is no evidence that is true. So they are likely waiting to understand how much Smith will cost, then they will decide if they want to keep Childress and lastly, complete the roster. Let’s say they can bring back the Joshes for $18M next year (combined), then they may decide to spend an additional $4M for a shooter and a big. With that, they may go ater someone like Fran Elson and Kareem Rush. But if Smith and Chill will cost $20M, they may have to go with Earl Barron and Juan Dixon. Lastly, if Smith will cost $15M by himself, then they may let Chill walk and go after Kwame and Rush (maybe $6-7M combined). But it all starts with Smith’s salary first. Meanwhile, teams are alreay grabbing the best of those free agents that will fill team roster spots 7-10. That’s why I won’t be shocked if we see 2-3 of our summer league invitees (and I’m including Mario West & Jeremy Richardson) make our roster. Because of financial constraints and failure to move decisively on free agents (due to financial constraints). The big and shooter may very well be Justin Williams and Jeremy Richardson or Luke Jackson.

By travis

July 13, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

astro is it true that a team can go over the salary cap to sign their own fa? if that is the case, we can sign the best big and shooter available and still sign the joshes, then.

i wish that asg would just offer 11/7mil for smoove/chill, rather than waiting on the market to dictate our moves!!

In the words of Florida Evans (Good Times)…”Dam, Dam, Dam!!!”

By Sautee

July 13, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Ken S

I tend to agree with your post (barring injury), but didn’t Sund say the goal is to get a home playoff series? That means jumpin’ a whole passle o’ teams that have done more to improve themselves than we have. I’m sure that we have the capacity to yes, improve, even with just organic growth, but I don’t see that as enough to even get back to the playoffs. I’d be absolutely thrilled to be wrong on this.

And you are right (excuse me, correct….., correct Sam?) about uptempo offense, and spot on about the fact that it’s on Woodson.

By Sautee

July 13, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe

Yeah, the stench is creeping out, eh?

Do you have a link to that Kincade story?

Funny post at 2:32.

By glw

July 13, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

astro,

your points are understandable the need to wait to see what operating budget you have, and I was cool with waiting, but I think, like many guys here do, that we let the perfect guy (Jarvis Hayes), slipped thru our hands. Did he even visit? He is from here, and all he got was 2 million a year? we couldnt offer that? I think he easily could have come here and been effective. I love his game and think he would have complemented Bibby and Joe Johnson perfectly, and might even allowed Marvin to come off the bench, and also be insurance should we decide to let Marvin walk next year. Its not like these guys who are being signed are beign given astronomical contracts.

By ray

July 13, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe,

Your 2:32 and 5:08 posts say it all, bro’. On the money, on the spot, and heavy as a mountain. Now where’s Stevo to call you names and say you’re the new leader of The Resistance to the Rightful and Just ASG Regime? Gee, I guess that means I’ll have to abdicate my throne and bow to you. Long live the King! You got my vote…

Also, your 2:32 post was funny as hell!

Ken, coming from you whom I respect, I can go with that. I didn’t realize you were being sarcastic, LOL! But seriously, I can go with your “maybe, just maybe” thing, because the possibility always exists. It’s refreshing to hear an opposing opinion that is stated as such, and not proclaimed condescendingly as fact…with vitriol thrown in. We’ll see. I think Astro has it pegged, though. I’m at the point where I’m just hoping to bumble-f*#ck our way into something decent, because the “plan” or whatever it’s supposed to be is rather suspect…and that’s putting it nicely.

Still, Astro brings up a very good idea: Sund is a consultant. That may be the perfect explanation as to why we’re not hearing a single thing from our organization. Unlike just about every other team in the NBA….

travis, I couldn’t answer your question about salary cap and what not. But as for your Rasheed Wallace idea….I’d like to see him here. And actually, him playing alongside Horford is not a way to get Horford to the 4, exclusively. Rasheed is also a 4, and if you noticed, he plays out on the perimeter a LOT. But he has the shooting range to do so. He and big AL would be absolute murder playing high and low post, inside and outside game. So on offense, it’s like Al is the center. On defense…well, it’s two power forwards. But as I’ve said before: you can make it along just fine with two tough and athletic power forwards, as opposed to a power forward and true center. And Rasheed won a ring that way…so you know it works. Again, this would allow us to play a much more efficient offensive game, especially in the half court. It would open things up for our perimeter guys. But I’m not %100 on what we should give up. Rasheed is deadlier offensively than Josh Smith, but he’s much older and doesn’t play with motivation all the time. Defensively, he’s better at the power forward slot for 82 games, but he doesn’t guard small forwards and guards so well. He’s great rotating on defense, but he can’t chase anybody down. Interesting situation all the way around.

I can say he would make us a better team. At least he’d be used to Woodson, and likes him. And he’s another veteran. I don’t know what Dumars would require for him, though.

By ray

July 13, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

According to reports, the Clippers are looking in several different directions. ESPN has a mildly interesting article on this. The general consensus is that they have to decide what kind of style they want to play in order for them to decide on who they want to committ money to.

Obviously they tried to get a person they felt most likely provides what Brand was providing. But Zach Randolph had a bigger price tag than they wanted to pay…at least initially. I think Walsh can afford to demand a steep price. He either wants a first round draft pick and a player, or he’ll watch Randolph and see just how well he plays under D’Antoni. If he plays well, his value goes up, to Walsh’s advantage. And we know how shrewd Walsh is.

So, the Clips could either target another double-double type of power forward (most teams aren’t giving up theirs, or won’t do so without seriously hefty prices), and that leaves RFA Emeka Okafor. Unless of course….they change styles.

This is where Josh Smith fits in. As the article states, Josh and Luol Deng fill this bill best because of their ability and versatility as forwards. However, between the two, I’d say Smith is the better fit on defense at least, where he can guard a lot more power forward types than Deng can, although neither is perfect for the job over the course of 82 games. That’s where good help defense and team defense comes in.

Why am I talking about the Clippers so much? Because until at least summer league starts….the Hawks haven’t given us much to talk about.

C’mon Josh, just come back home and sign up for 55 million or so. It’ll be a huge raise over what you were getting an it’s still 10 mil more than you were offered last year. Please?

By ray

July 13, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

glw, you’re right. Hayes was had for a song….

By Astro Joe

July 13, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

Travis, yes, a team can exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents. But don’t get it twisted, they still have to pay out the money from their wallets. Let’s say that current payroll (without Joshes) is around $35M and the salary cap is $58M (this is an illustrative example only). Sure, they could conceivably sign two tier 2 free agents for $5M each. So that brings them to $45M. So yes, they could sign the Joshes for a combined $18M and exceed the salary cap (payroll in this scenario hits $63M), but again, that assumes that the ASG wants to spend $63M. Just because they “can” based on the NBA rules doesn’t mean they “want to”. And given that the team has operated with a bottom 5 payroll since they took over the team, there truly is no reason to believe that they will spend with the ownership divorce pending a decision in about 7 months. Don’t focus on what can be done, focus on what these owners have suggested will be done based on their history.

By HHoops

July 13, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

O’kay guys, we missed on Jarvis! Let’s go after Posey! He can be had for the MLE.

I fine it very interesting that no other teams have offered either Josh a contract. I hate the waiting game, but it looks as though ASG has played this one right. Sometimes things just fall right for you and this one has evidently fell right for them. There is probably a trade deal being talked about and it will probably take some time to put together. Rasheed might be an interesting short term fit as well as Marion. Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock…………

By crickets

July 13, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp

By Astro Joe

July 13, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Sautee, the Kincade story was on the radio. Buck & Kincade interviewed Ric Bucher Friday afternoon and toward the end of the interview, they discussed that word is that Sund may be the lowest paid GM in the league. Bucher than challenged that the GM in Memphis (Chris Wallace) may be right there with Sund. And that Bickerstaff was working for peanuts when he was both GM and Head Coach for Charlotte. Anyway, it was all on the radio and I don’t know how good Kincade’s sources may be (although he is definitely clued in on the Thrashers side of business).

By j hawkins

July 13, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

If the Hawks resign both Joshes then Marvin is the odd man out. He has proven that he is not good enough to have two of your best players play out of position. He’s your big man solution trade Marvin for Kwame Brown and sign JJ for your shooter.

By Rick Sund

July 13, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Now what was that date that we can start signing fee agents?

By Sautee

July 13, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe

Thanks for the info.

By terrell barron

July 13, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

HHops, if they offer Josh a contract, they’ll have to wait 7 days before they can do anything else. Thats why teams went after unrestricted players first.

By Sautee

July 13, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Sekou

Great article on Acie. What an amazing attitude the dude has!

And we should give Woody props for “manning up” about not using Acie enough down the stretch. It doesn’t change my mind about his lack of coaching ability, but it makes me like him more.

By ray

July 13, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

Wow. Count this as my Mea Culpa on Woodson.

After reading Sekou’s latest article, I have to say that Mike Woodson is a real stand up guy. I’ve said before in the past that this guy has class, but….He admitted that he got desperate and shortened the rotation. That he didn’t help Acie Law as much, and didn’t trust him. It takes a lot to admit to the things that didn’t go well. He even said that his assistant coaches fought him on his decisions. It’s good to know that these guys are really trying to help him. I feel a lot better about Woody than I have in quite some time. I hope he continues this attitude and listens to his assistants. I hope he reaches out to his guys and trusts them more. I look forward to him developing this trust with guys like Law and Josh Smith (if he remains here). I see it as the difference between a good team and a mediocre team. A team that can grow exponentially, instead of painfully slow.

If this dude can see and realize what went wrong, and fix it, then he definitely deserves the extension he got. I have to change my stance on him if he follows through. I’m starting to change it right now. Looking forward to good things. Looks like I was wrong, and I couldn’t be happier about it.

Hope this is for real. We need Law. He’s a leader, a natural one. We’ve been missing one. And if Josh Smith stays, Law will be one of the keys to helping him be a better player and teammate, and being better than people think he can be…which all helps in the ultimate goal: Making the team better.

Where’s Samuel? I know he’s gonna love this one….

By ray

July 13, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

A friend of mine wondered if Woody said all of that to Sund and Gearon prior to being re-signed. If he did, then those concessions alone were enough to retain his job, I bet.

I have to echo Sautee and say that I still wince at his “system” (particularly on offense), but his words really spoke volumes. Admission is step one. Follow through is next. Without admission, there is no follow-through. He got step one absolutely right, and even acknowledged the wise input of his assistants. That’s what they are there for, Mike…

Rick Sund, I heard Mike Gearon Jr was going to call you in a few months. You’ll know then…

By ray

July 13, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Law’s attitude is fantastic, and so is his approach. Instead of saying he’ll be ready (a la Stephon Marbury), he’s actually working toward it. And taking a page out of Speedy’s book of woe, he’s also working hard at not only recovering, but at preventing further or recurring injury. I love this guy. I am so jazzed about getting some chances to see him do his thing. I’m looking forward to seeing the Acie that was “wowing” them down in Texas.

Major kudos to Sekou for putting something helpful and insightful out during a time where the doldrums threaten to run us over and there is not a single freakin’ sound coming from the front office. Thanks, Sekou, it’s a long ways to Friday, and even longer from summer league to actual season.

By Sautee

July 13, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Rick Sund

Man, that’s REALLY not funny.

Granny’s little Datsun seems to be leaking oil, blue smoke everywhere.

“Traffic goin’ ‘round her like a river ‘round a stone” as my friend and songpoet Annie Gallup would put it.

By ray

July 13, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

We’re going to have to call CSI Atlanta to find out what happened to her…

By doc

July 13, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

it doesnt matter what he says it is what he does when the pressure is on. he acted like a rookie who wouldnt listen ….. hmmmm sound like the pot calling the kettle black

By ray

July 13, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Doc, you talkin’ about Woody, right? At least he admitted to it. That’s better than just saying: I thought I acted right (though clearly it wasn’t so right), it turned out ok, but I would have done differently if I had it to do over. That’s a better attitude than he exhibited during the playoffs. Like I said, follow-through is important here, which is what I figure is along the lines of what you’re saying. Actions do indeed speak louder than words…most of the time, anyway.

By cp

July 13, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Its nice that Woody admitted he didnt do this or that but its nothing we have not heard before. He has made comments like this in the past and still has not shown he will change.

I really hope Law comes out in the summer league games and show that intinct he had in college. I will probably pay more attention to this summer squad because im pretty sure a few of these guys will make the team. I guess the front office wrote their plan on a napkin.

By BlackMyk

July 13, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Sekou, nice article on ACIE. i have no doubt that he’ll be a very good PG and a pro’s pro.

NOW WOODSON!!! this cat keeps killin’ me!! yeah, it’s stand-up of him to admit his doings!! great??? gimme a break!!! he is one WALKIN’ BAG of HINDSIGHT!!! and that is NOT…again…HC material!!! MIKE ‘HINDSIGHT’ WOODSON!!! how many times is he gonna use that line!!! i’m wanna HC coach with some damn foresight!!! geeesshhh!!! damn, i’m headed back to my exile!!! where’s the GSW cheerleaders at???

By Astro Joe

July 13, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

I agree with previous posters, very good article on Acie. I like his attitude and I like his fire. Seems like a leader, which we saw glimpses of very early in the season.

Ray, I think Woody is probably a very, very good man. He would probably make an exceptional college coach, because I think that he mostly cares for his players as individuals and I thik that he also likes to be an educator of men. And while I can’t fault him for doing what he felt like he had to do to land this team a playoff spot, I can’t help but argue that it should not have gotten to that point. Had the first half of the season not been a disappointment, then he would not have had to pull a rabbit out of his hat (helped with the arrival of Bibby) to get this team in the post-season. Showing that you can pull levers over 35 games is interesting, doing it over 82 games is what is expected. Our only hope is that Woody learns from last season much like we expect the players to “kick it up a notch” based on their playoff experience. Organic growth could work for both coach and players. But in my heart of hearts, I fear that Woody enters the season thinking that he needs to win “or else”. So I won’t be surprised if players get 2 strikes before they are sent to the distant end of the bench, to dry up like Tony Delk.

By Astro Joe

July 13, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

I agree with previous posters, very good article on Acie. I like his attitude and I like his fire. Seems like a leader, which we saw glimpses of very early in the season.

Ray, I think Woody is probably a very, very good man. He would probably make an exceptional college coach, because I think that he mostly cares for his players as individuals and I thik that he also likes to be an educator of men. And while I can’t fault him for doing what he felt like he had to do to land this team a playoff spot, I can’t help but argue that it should not have gotten to that point. Had the first half of the season not been a disappointment, then he would not have had to pull a rabbit out of his hat (helped with the arrival of Bibby) to get this team in the post-season. Showing that you can pull levers over 35 games is interesting, doing it over 82 games is what is expected. Our only hope is that Woody learns from last season much like we expect the players to “kick it up a notch” based on their playoff experience. Organic growth could work for both coach and players. But in my heart of hearts, I fear that Woody enters the season thinking that he needs to win “or else”. So I won’t be surprised if players get 2 strikes before they are sent to the distant end of the bench, to dry up like Tony Delk.

By HB Ando

July 13, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Joe, any reference to arrogance is pure projection, so your comments only lend themselves to my sense of Groundhog Day.

Ray reminded me that I said, quite some time ago, that the idea of Belkin getting the team back might not be that bad, as how much worse could things be under his guidance than that of his former partners. How’s Belkin looking to some of you folks now? And surprised Flash isn’t here fleshing out that very idea.

As far as drawing conclusions about the meaning, good, bad or indifferent, of the Hawks not having moved to re-sign their restricted FA’s, it seems worth noting that Okafor, Igoudala, Gordon, Deng, Beidrens, etc. all remain unsigned as well. Pretty clear that if teams are too far apart to close a deal with their own, then the consensus play, across the league, is to let these guys go get the best documented offer they can find, and then decide how the organization wants to play it. If it were just the Hawks who were asleep at the wheel, in locking down their own RFA’s, it would stand out (and add continued, though largely unnecessary at this stage, fuel to the blaze of ASG negativity), paining hopelessly optimistic Hawks fans.

Ken, I don’t see how some minor improvement, in the existing roster, from last year to this next, will be sufficient to keep up with Toronto adding J. O’Neal, and clearing up their PG situation, by handing the full-time reins to the best assist-to-turnover PG in the league, or Philly adding Elton Brand, and, assuming that they’ll resign Igoudala, getting their own expected improvement, from their young guys, like Igoudala, and the emerging Young and still improving Dalembert.

I think Miami and Chicago are both going to bounce back in a big way. I honestly don’t see the Hawks cracking the top-ten, in the East, if they simply bring back last years’ lineup. The Bucks just added a top wing scorer, in Jefferson, and a much better coach, in Terry Porter. I think New Jersey is going to be better than a lot of folks believe.

To me, the Hawks standing pat is a big step backwards. But then again, I still think Bibby won’t make it to the trade deadline, in a Hawks uniform (which will actually be a good thing).

Joe, you’re same, old, long-suffering act, about how tiresome you pretend to find me, is the capper on another Groundhog Day. Thanks for being so predictably unimaginative. I can always count on you, no matter how long I go away, to act petty and pretend you’re too cool for school (even though I’ve met you in person, and now we both know you’ve ne