AJC > Sports > Hawks > Blog > Archives > 2008 > July > 03 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USMatch point!
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
PARTS UNKNOWN - The private plane.
The limo.
The old jersey-with-his-name-on-it-in-the-locker trick.
The Mayor.
The wine and dine.
The man on the street coming up and telling you how much they need you routine.
The Philadelphia 76ers spared no expense and pulled out every stunt possible to woo Josh Smith Wednesday (and probably a bit more today).
The only thing left is the offer sheet, which can’t be far behind.
Smith has time to make a decision on what he wants to do. But I can’t imagine it will take him long to sign, not because his heart is in Philadelphia but mostly because NBA players are like the rest of us.
They love to be loved.
They love for someone to show them love.
And you have to give the 76ers credit, from what the descriptions I’ve heard from at least three different people in Philly about Smith’s visit, it was one home run swing after another - from the moment Smith and his agents stepped off the plane to their evening visit with the Sixers’ brass and coaching staff.
So I called an executive from another team I know and asked him what he thought of this deal and if everyone was putting way too much stock in Philly’s recruiting pitch and not enough in the nuts and bolts of this process and he put on his professor’s hat.
“The bottom line in all of this is the Hawks can match that offer,” he said. “I don’t know if they will. Everything I’ve seen and heard says they will. But you never know until the situation comes up. But they do have that right to match on their side and that’s a powerful weapon when you’re talking about restricted free agents. That’s why you only see a few teams that dive publicly into situations with these restricted free agents. What you don’t see is all the teams working behind the scenes to try and worm their way in there and see if they can’t get in on the action. If the Hawks don’t match and want to try and massage a sign-and-trade deal to keep from losing him outright, there will be a line of teams ready to do business. Since no one will know the exact numbers for the salary cap [and thus the actual figures that can be offered to free agents] until next July 8th, I don’t expect this thing to come a head until then. But that’s when it should be clear to everybody how this thing plays out.”
The line has already formed for Josh Childress, the Hawks other man in the crosshairs these days.
As many as eight different teams have contacted the Hawks about sign-and-trade deals for Childress, per one of my best spies who insists that there are several Western Conference playoff teams desperate to add Childress to their mix (his exact words were that they “need an athletic younger guy who can play without the ball and come off of their bench and give them a boost.”).
That’s nearly a third of the league that’s interested in acquiring one of your players, which should be a clear indicator of that player’s value around the league.
So I asked my scout friend why these guys are so attractive and he made a good point that I think we might have overlooked about both of these guys.
“Somebody else has already done the heavy lifting in terms of developing these kids, and I call them kids only because at 22 [Smith] and 24 or 25 [Childress], they’re still in the early stages of their careers,” he said. “They’ve both played major minutes and had major roles on a team that’s had to operate under some pretty extreme conditions down there with that ownership situation and that shaky coaching situation. They’ve managed to improve year after year through all of that and they played huge roles in helping that team make the playoffs. Not all of these restricted free agents on the market right now have played those kinds of minutes and had those kinds of roles on their teams. You have a huge sample of work to evaluate on those two kids and then you realize that they both have plenty of room to get better and that’s what intrigues people.”
That also has to be what intrigues the Hawks, who have never strayed from their public stance that they’ll match any offers made to these guys.
TWO NAMES ON MY BRAIN: I know we’ve debated endlessly around here about the Hawks adding another shooter with size their mix but few names have surfaced that anyone confirms the Hawks have actual interest in.
Two names that have come up in conversations I’ve had the past two days that would seem like ideal fits for the Hawks are James Jones and Jarvis Hayes.
Jones is the sharpshooter from Portland (he shot 44 percent from deep last season and save for the 24 games he missed with a left knee injury, was one of the better bench players in the league last season, averaging eight points per game in a tough minutes situation on a talented Portland team).
There’s a good chance Jones signs back with Portland. But if he becomes available, I’d be chasing him down if I were the Hawks, a team that needs outside shooters in the worst way. He ranked third in the league in 3-point shooting this season and has played on winning teams in Indiana and Phoenix during his career.
Most of us are already familiar with Hayes, whose name appeared here frequently two years ago when I was in my “The Hawks should trade for Brendan Haywood and Jarvis Hayes” phase, which was before Al Horford was drafted and the Hawks traded for Mike Bibby (adding the second outside threat needed to take some pressure off of Joe Johnson on the perimeter).
The former Georgia star has the experience, skill-set and price tag that would fit well with what the Hawks are working with. He’s also proved to be a quality player in a reserve role, most recently in Detroit, capable of making a splash when called upon (I watched him stroke seven 3-pointers against the Hornets late in the season on his way to a 29-point outing).
Again, these are guys that make sense to me. I don’t know if the Hawks are interested in them or not and I wouldn’t expect anyone to share that information right now anyway, since those guys won’t be in play until later on during this free agent frenzy.
But if we’re talking about the Hawks needing shooters with some size to come off that bench as game changers, these are two vets that would clearly seem to fit the bill.
Both of them have playoff experience and the requisite size (6-8 for both and 220 pounds for Jones and around 230 for Hayes) and skill to help this team out in a major way next season.
Comments
By khao$
July 3, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this
It’s funny Sekou. People around the league values our talent more than a segment of the fanbase in our great city. You brought up a great point. These guys continued to get better, despite the ownership and coaching messes. What would they do in a more stable enviornment? What was the point of rebuilding and going through Billy Knight’s “process” if we’re not going to keep these guys or trade them for comparable/all star talent? After grooming them, it would be a shame to see them flourish under another team’s system.
By travis
July 3, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
HAPPY 4TH TO ALL!! Hopefully, we can celebrate the 4th with Childres and J-Smoove in Atl attire
By josh
July 3, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
I have been a big fan of Jarvis Hayes since his uga days. He would help this team out in a big way. I don’t know a lot about Jones, but he sounds like someone who could really help the team as well. Have you heard any rumors about what the offer will be for Smith?
By Big al in texas
July 3, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
Hawks fan living in austin. I really hope that we can keep J-Smoove and Chills. Happy 4TH TO ALL!! Peace.
By Astro Joe
July 3, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
Couldn’t the same thing be said about Ben Gordon, Iggy, Deng and Okafor? Whose knocking down their door to bring them in? Jarvis Hayes is a no-brainer and has been since last summer. Douglass High School grad, UGA player (star player for best UGA team in the last 20 years) and fits a specific need for this team. Give me Hayes and Kwame and we’d be in good shape. Chill isn’t coming back, he will have far too many opporunities to play for a title next season. Smith will be back, likely over-paid, but he’ll be back.
By doc
July 3, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
sekou as a fan that comment that got highlighted as one we dont talk abut often is really the essence of the frustration hawk fans feel and has been an underlying theme here since day one as noted by khao$. it is called the growing pains that go with watching these guys go through the metamorphosis into nba players. we have called it organic growth.
in essence, if the owners dont resign these guys or bring in very equivalent talent there will be a sense of betrayal on our end. for years we have supported a product labeled as young and immature but one that we will train and keep for the long haul as we grow them up. the time has come; the crucible has been burning as alchemy has taken hold. now what will we be left with, gold or rubbish?
we all await to see the true nature of our BASG group that either are stewards of the hawks or seen as running the franchise further intot he ground. personally i think gearon has to be concerned about how all of this will reflect on him if there are further blunders. i hope that alone will keep this organization with its senses intact.
funny how one of the trolls picked up on another of our themes in the past few days of what happens if they flop and handle this as poorly as they did the thrashers? time is soon to declare what these guys really want out of this franchise. if they falter maybe there are only the seats that they sit in at mid-court that are filled; let them have their toy.
By SalimFan
July 3, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Sekou, I’m not worried. As long as we can match these offers they can enjoy themselves, go on plenty of tours and eat as many cheese steaks as their stomachs can hold. I KNOW that’s whats happeneing. They’re just livin it up at other teams expenses just to leave them high and dry when the dust settles.
James Jones is nice but that knee REALLY scares me, (can somebody say speedy). With all of these people having constant knee problems after surgeries (Webber, Amare, SPEEDY, Bill Walker, Tiger Woods, Darius Miles) i’m not sold on these surgeries anymore. Portland may try to get rid of him before his knee acts up again.
Sekou, You said Hayes wouldn’t come into play until later in the offseason. BUT don’t the Hawks have to sign all of their NEEDS while still being under the cap before finalizing the deals with our own players eat up that cap space(they have Bird Rights)?
By Allan in austin
July 3, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Hawks fan now living in austin texas. I hope that we will be able to keep J-Smoove and Chills. HAPPY 4TH TO EVERYONE!! Peace.
By Astro Joe
July 3, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
SalimFan, you’re right from a cap perspective, but how about from the standpoint of basic expense management. Seems to me that the owners need to know there salary expenses with one or both Joshes before deciding if they bring in Jarvis or Jeremy, Kwame or Earl Barron. The order that they submit the paper work to the NBA offices is what is key. They could reach an agreement with Smith on a Monday, sign Jarvis on Thursday and wait until Saturday to turn in Smith’s contract (as an example). I seriously doubt that these guys are so loaded that there only concern in the luxury tax threshold. It would be a freakin’ miracle to go from the 5th lowest payroll to a top 10 payroll during one off-season.
By kurtz
July 3, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
One hopes the Hawks have a number already in mind for Smith and Childress. If others want to overpay for free agents, so be it. The best addition to this team would be an all round triple threat player who creates mismatches at multiple positions and is willing to play defense. That addition would determine a style of play which to this point has been a Hawks weakness.
By Jared
July 3, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
So i guess the overall concensus is that Smith will be stating in the ATL? I’m a Philly fan and haven’t seen Smith play as much as i’d like. His stats def. represent star potiential and at age 22, you have to think his game will only get better. As much as i’d love the Sixers to come out on top, i’m not to sure Smith is what our team really needs. Having Thad Young and Iggy, we already have great swing guys for years to come, what we really need is a Low Post Presence on the offensive and a real shoot. Smith, while being ultra athletic, is neither a good shooter nor a low post player. And i really don’t see him ever being that type of player. He’s best when he’s able to run and use his athletic ability, which isn’t what the Sixers really need. I wish that Baron Davis hadn’t gone to the Clippers cause my Sixer’s would have had a real chance at a player that really fits the our needs, Brand. But that’s not going to happen now.
By Maniac is accurate
July 3, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Smoovey doesn’t really have a choice here, does he? Isn’t all this fanfare actually aimed at the Hawks and not on Smoovey? Afterall the final decision belongs to the Hawks to match or not. Seems like a mind game to me.
By sandeigophillyfan
July 3, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
looks like a great day my phils in first sweeping the braves at atlanta twice in 2 weeks, and 76ers signing smith win win all around lets all drink to that
By Samuel
July 3, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
I too believe that Josh Smith will be resigned. I know many here may like to find fault in what he Can’t do but many fans in this town love Smith. I can’t see my boy Rick and the ownership dropping the ball on this one. Josh goes and our team suffers tremendously.
I would prefer Hayes over Jones. He’s tougher and playes better defense.
As far as a big. I wouldn’t have a problem with Kwame. He’s definately got size and skills. You never know who or what environment he may finally mature in. He was put in two akward situations being the #1 pick plus playing for your Dad(from a credible source. Check out the resemblance) and going to LA. Atlanta and Woody may be a good fit.
By MannyT
July 3, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
It all goes back to the real internal salary budget for this season. If Smith’s deal puts us way over budget, start the whisper campaign to get the sign & trade options with over the cap teams that WILL give some value back.
We should be able to afford Chills. If not we have to look at the same options.
Based on the Sekou comments about having done the heavy lifting of development here—that just reeks of an organization that is stuck in PAIN mode.
You have the most attractive RFAs and you cannot keep them even when you have the right to match.
If I’m the ASG, I’d put some emotional countermeasures in place to help Smith know he’s wanted. Get that marketing dept together to do some video of his successes here and the places he likes to hang out at in Atlanta (that are not in Philly.)
Still not worried about timing, but I hope Sund has a plan to make something good happen. Surprising us with good CRAP is the way to go…enough of the PAIN that hangs around the last 9 years like old mistletoe on a troll.
By darrell starks
July 3, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
WHATS UP SEKOU SIXERS JUST PULL ONE ON US THEY OFFER JOSH SMITH 67MILLION THEY ARE PLAYING GAME WE CAN NOT LET GO JOSH SMITH OR JOSH CHILL FOR NOTHING WE HAVE TO DO A SIGN TRADE A SAY KEEP ONE AND DO A SIGN A SIGN TRADE THE OTHER WITH BIBBY 14MILLION DOLLAR WE NEED A SCORE AT THE 3 POSTION IN THE WORST WAY MAY BE A CAMELO DENVER IS THINKING ABOUT TRADING HIM I SAY MAKE A OFFER OFF JOSH SMITH BIBBY14MILLION AND NUMBER ONE DRAFT PICK OR!!!!!!!!!! JOSH CHILL BIBBY 14MILLION AND MARVIN WILLIAM AND NUMBER ONE DRAFT PICK I SAY YES LETS DO IT WE HAVE TO GET SOMETHING THIS CITY IS EXCITED FOR THIS TEAM DONT BLOW IT OWNER GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
By LL Cool Scott
July 3, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Who gives a sh*t what Philly does to “woo” Josh?
It will come down to $$ - they’ll make him a huge offer, he’ll sign it, and then it will be up to our owners to match it or not. All this wining and dining means absolutely NOTHING.
By MsDee
July 3, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
I just read somewhere where Philly offered Smith 67mil…if that is the case, I would send Smith packing, try and get Iggy or Del(their center), keep Chills, and try and get Javis Haynes. Smith is good, but not that good.
By femhawkfan
July 3, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Yeah, Smoov maybe enjoying all of this fanfare, but the fact remains the Hawks can match any offer that the Sixers put up. So the Sixers can keep wining and dining Smoov like he is some college recruit, but the fact remains that he is a RESTRICTED free agent. If they are so in love with him, they should go ahead and put a offer on table.
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Yeah 5 yr 67 million. That’s 13.5 a year. He might be a goner.
By gutz
July 3, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
The most Philly can offer him is 5yrs at 67million assuming the 8% annual raises and i think we would match that in a heartbeat. Our franchise is doomed if we don’t. We cannot let SMoove go!
By ATL Rattler
July 3, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
This thing is kind of like the stock market right now, it’s difficult to watch. However, unlike the Hawks I know the market will eventually turn itself around & go back in the right direction - with the Hawks I have no friggin clue. Sund is new to us, what the BASG has done in the past has been scary.
It’s not quite on the level of trading Nique, as Smoove is a lot younger than Nique was at the time, but if nothing of extreme high quality is received in a sign & trade I might go down to their offices myself & express my displeasure (for the record I don’t care how old Nique was, he shouldn’t have been trade-and especially for broke-ars Danny Manning).
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
I love Smoove, but 13.5 mill is a lot of money. We could get a good shooter and a decent big for less than 13.5, easily.
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
I love Smoove, but 13.5 mill is a lot of money. We could get a good shooter and a decent big for less than 13.5, easily. I’m torn! Maybe we should just trade Bibby and match.
By jhan
July 3, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
Maybe Josh will take a 6/72 Million offer.
How about 3/45 Million offer. That saves the Hawks long term money & gives Smith another shot at free agency at 25.
$13.4 Million is a lot for Josh. Not sure he is worth that right now. Two years from now that price could be a steal. The ASG has until this time next week to make their move.
Hopefully Childress will get his offer shortly so we can get this process moving. I would look to trade Bibby & keep the Joshes. Maybe the right move is to trade Bibby & Smith/Childress to address team needs.
I don’t really care who goes or stays personally, the real goal is to better the team for next year. If trading Smith = less highlights but 10 more wins, then make the trade. I don’t know what scenario would equate to that, but if it exists, make it happen!
Go Sund.
By Boheezy
July 3, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Ok…..now lets say the BASG does the worst and let Josh leave, where do we stand cap wise? WOuld there be enough for us to do like Golden State and suddenly become a player for a bigger name player or are we still gonna have minimum room for signings? I really hope we keep Josh, Chills we can do a sign a trade for because some of the one player away teams are gonna be looking at him. I love him too for what he brings but he can be replaced. Dalambert is cool but I dont want him because he has those same mental lapses that everybody is complaining about with Josh. Jarvis Hayes should be the first person we sign other than Smoove. Kwame would be a solid backup. I think Zaza will step his game up if Droopy plays him. The next 2 weeks are going to be the major chapter of the rebuilding phase.
By Pete
July 3, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
This ish is too crazy!!!!! They should have settled this before the season started. Now we are missing the boat on other good players because we have not taken care of home first. Last summer they did not counter-offer Childress or Smith now they are at an impasse This group is playing roulette with their future.
The Hawks will be back in the lottery if they do not the settle contracts of Smith and Childress!!!!!!!!!
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
What I meant was Bibby’s contract will come off the books after next year, so maybe we should go ahead and match. But that is a lot of money, for an UNPROVEN player. I love his game, but we DONT REALLY KNOW how good he will become. He’s not a sure fire thing at this stage of his career, like say a Lebron, CP3, Deron, etc….. I was expecting Philly to go about 5 yrs 57 mill., not 5yr 67 mill.
By Don!
July 3, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
According to all the sports outlets here in Philly … or South Jersey where I live — they’ve made the max offer to Josh, $65M for 5-years.
I don’t know what the league rules are, but a lot of the talk here also concerns what else they can put into the contract to make it tough for the Hawks to match. There’s a feeling that since the front office is managed/mismanaged by a group of owners in legal limbo, that if they make it as financially painful as possible — they might be able to get Josh in Philly.
With that having been said, the other thing that comes up is what could they offer in a sign-and-trade. And of course, that draws the discussion around to the situation that most resembles this one regarding the Hawks and ASG — the Joe Johnson signing a few years ago.
Most of the Phillly folks I talk to aren’t scared of giving up two firsts, figuring they’re lottery protected and would wind up in the mid-20s anyway, but what player(s) could they add to make the Hawks interested. I don’t see any that make sense, and neither does anyone else. That’s the problem.
The general sense is that they’ll make the offer and the Hawks will match. However, there’s some hope that they can work a deal, or something to get Josh.
I don’t see it. But I’m hoping as a Hawks fan that this makes Josh see that he can be ‘The Man’ and bring that attitude in a positive way to the hardwood every night this season. Of course, my nightmare is that we match the max offer, or even extend it to a max offer on our end … and then Josh goes all Koncak on us.
Later,
Don!
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
GS offered Brand 5 yr 90 mill, after he was to re-sign with the Clippers for 5 yr 70 mill. WOW! It looks like he and Baron wont play together after all. lol!!
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Yeah about 6yr 72 million should be the offer from the BASG, if he does’nt sign the offer sheet from Philly.
By SalimFan
July 3, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Looks like Detrot has the same idea.
By daniel
July 3, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
The Hawks must keep their promise to this fanbase and keep both Smith and Childress. Otherwise, this past 4 years have just been a waste. We have patiently waited for this plan to come together and now as it is about to, ownership must not be shy. I like Jarvis Hayes as a player, but what about Elton Brand. He is coming off of injury and would be cheap for a guy with his talent and skill set.
By daniel
July 3, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
The Hawks must keep their promise to this fanbase and keep both Smith and Childress. Otherwise, this past 4 years have just been a waste. We have patiently waited for this plan to come together and now as it is about to, ownership must not be shy. I like Jarvis Hayes as a player, but what about Elton Brand. He is coming off of injury and would be cheap for a guy with his talent and skill set.
By HB Ando
July 3, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
What’s up, fellas (and ladies)?
I’m enjoying a vacation at the Chateau Northside (hospital), day 4. Accomodations and service have been wonderful, with the price quite reasonable (10% co-insurance and a fairly large section of my lower abdomen).
Been looking for a compelling reason, say, something new to offer, as a spot to jump back in. And it’s just not happening. This is the same stuff that’s been discussed for nearly six months.
Discussions on cap implications are just as pointless today as they were then. Where is the suggestion that the ASG is going to end up anywhere near the league salary cap?! Comments about the fan base failing to appreciate some of the Hawks players are as misguided as before, neglecting the actual point that the team is mis-matched, not lacking in talent. And that moving certain players is born of financial necessity.
Don’t believe Sund for a moment when he says he’d like to keep the teams’ top 8 intact. That’s the same $65-67 million I highlighted six months ago, when these blog issues were first brought up.
To add discussions about acquiring free agents, without subtracting existing roster members, is even more ludicrous (with a nod to Iron Mike, and SS’s reference of the most exciting heavyweight I ever saw).
To keep the Josh’s, at market, Bibby HAS to go. To keep Bibby, at his current salary, either Smith, or Childress and another player or two have to go. And THAT STILL sees at least an increase in team salary of $10 million, which there is NO REASON to believe is realistic, given concerns about the ASG’s finances.
Sund lost me as soon as he said we didn’t need a draft pick because we didn’t need to get younger. That’s the kind of comment I would have expected from Billy, fronting for the ASG, and insulting the collective intelligence (giving too much credit to the Hawks’ fan base?), of Atlanta ticket buyers.
Almost every team in the league came away from draft night with an improved outlook, whether that was viable talent, or additional assets to improve their immediate future. By standing pat, we fell behind.
Look at teams in the East that we bested for that 8th seed. Of those teams, Indiana, New Jersey, Chicago, Miami, New York, Milwaukee and Charlotte, all stand to be better than last year, based on collective changes they’ve made in their organizations (New York and Charlotte got better just by changing their head coaches). Indiana and Milwaukee made significant improvements in their rosters, as did Miami and Chicago, which will both be better than the Hawks next year.
We’ve done nothing but get rid of an old problem, in Billy. Our realistic, best-case scenario, unless I’m just dead wrong about the financial realities of the organization, is that we’ll maintain status quo, with an imbalanced roster, a flawed head coach, and an over-priced, over-the-hill Mike Bibby, being paid $14.5 million.
I don’t see Josh Smith going anywhere. And that’s the right call. But either Childress or Bibby, based on money alone, will have to move along. The good news is they both have value in the market, albeit for different reasons, and, properly marketed, represent our best chance to re-balance the squad and actually put a better product on the floor.
In the NBA, as in life, you’re either getting better or you’re getting worse. Standing still is not possible. And the teams we beat, for the 8th seed in the East, last year, all look better (with New Jersey the only team with a questionable outlook, from an immediate improvement standpoint, and New York simply too unpredictable to predict; but always flush enough to make a bold move).
The Hawks have pieces/assets that make improving the roster very plausible. Whether the ASG, and Sund, have the commitment, and skill, to optimize that opportunity, remains a very big question mark.
Redundant points about losing this player or that, continue to disregard the fact that all of the possible players who could move on will bring assets in return (which should ostensibly improve the balance on the floor, and the balance sheet in the front office).
There’s little reason for unchecked optimism, and plenty of evidence to support a position of concern and cynicism. Woody’s flaws were extremely apparent over the course of last season. But he’s still here. We have too many forwards, and a front line that doesn’t represent much of an outside shooting threat. Bibby was exposed as over the hill, and there’s no way he’s worth $14.5 million, on a team with such limited finances.
I’m dying for something new to say, or for some compelling sign that suggests this franchise is going to blossom this fall. Still don’t see either.
And I can’t believe that so many of you still come here daily to have the same arguments you’ve been having since the all-star break.
Take a vacation, hang out with the kids (my new daughter is wonderful, far better than I deserve).
Hopefully, something will happen, soon, that gives a hint of the direction this club is headed, in the near-term.
Right now, a visit to the old blog is eerily similar to the movie “Groundhog Day”.
By doc
July 3, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
hmmmm a while back folks pooh poohed my thought that smith was going to get between 65 and 75 mil. they all said no way! WAY!
short sighted trade for bibby if this is the outcome of too little money in the kitty.
very interesting developments.
got to ask if there is so much activity for these guys and their stats so good why oh why were we just a 37 game winner last year? please dont say it was because of the lack of a point guard. if smith goes bibby better come back with his A game and his outside shot dialed in or this is going to be a one year playoff team bust.
By David
July 3, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Do you think it would be worhtwhile to investiagte a trade involving Josh Smith and Andre Igudola in some shape or form? I know there would have to be more names thrown in, but Bibby, JJ, Andre and Horford doesn’t sound like a bad start to next season.
By JK
July 3, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
SalimFan…we havn’t heard from you since before 10am. Not trying to single you out but I would really like your honest oppinion. You have probablly been one of his biggest supporters, so do you think this guy is worth $13+ mill? I like Smith’s energy, passion & he obviously is a hell of an athlete. But do you think he should be paid like that? We know he will be a STAR in Philly with the system they play. But can he be a STAR in ATLANTA with teh system we play?
By Clyde
July 3, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Who would want Bibby with his poor showing in the Boston series at 14 million?
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
If we happen to let Josh Smith walk, I say we make an offer to JR Smith, who’s restricted, and then grab an unrestricted big(O’Bryant, Elson, Skinner, or Kwame). If we cant pry away JR from the Nuggets, lets go ahead get Jarvis Hayes, Roger Mason Jr., or James Jones, and one of the before mentioned bigs and call it a day. Considering we’re talking about the BASG here, I guess I could live with that.
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
If we happen to let Josh Smith walk, I say we make an offer to JR Smith, who’s restricted, and then grab an unrestricted big(O’Bryant, Elson, Skinner, or Kwame). If we cant pry away JR from the Nuggets, lets go ahead get Jarvis Hayes, Roger Mason Jr., or James Jones, and one of the before mentioned bigs and call it a day. Considering we’re talking about the BASG here, I guess I could live with that. I still say we should shop Marvin.
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
If we happen to let Josh Smith walk, God forbid, I say we make an offer to JR Smith, who’s restricted, and then grab an unrestricted big(O’Bryant, Elson, Skinner, or Kwame). If we cant pry away JR from the Nuggets, lets go ahead get Jarvis Hayes, Roger Mason Jr., or James Jones, and one of the before mentioned bigs and call it a day. Considering we’re talking about the BASG here, I guess I could live with that. I still say we should shop Marvin.
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
And will the Braves send Francouer to AAA already? He’s killin em. I know he was supposed to be the next Golden Child, but pitchers have figured him out.
By vagaboy
July 3, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
37 games was phemomenal + a trip to the playoffs + a 7 game series with the eventual champs. All achieved with a roster laden with 1,2,3 and 4 year players. The only playoff team that comes near the youth in the Hawks uniform is Philadelphia. Pay attention to the progress this team makes each year and you should be proud to root for these guys. Woodson got here with nothing to count on but loosing and put this organization in the playoffs in 4 years. ONWARD AND UPWARD HAWKS.
By fudd21
July 3, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Has the offer for Josh actually been made or is it just a rumor?
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
And will the Braves send Francouer to AAA already? He’s killin em. I know he was supposed to be the next Golden Child, but pitchers have figured him out. He’s not as good as you though Bobby. It’s time to send him down.
By fudd21
July 3, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Terrell you wanted to make sure you got your point across hence the 3 posts. LOL. Anyway, I say no way that if Josh walks we get rid of Marvin. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to extend Marvin. I think with Josh gone, Marvin’s numbers will improve and he could be had for a reasonable salary (say 35 mil for 5 years) right now.
I know we beat up on Marvin alot for his clumsiness, non-dribbling, and lack of a post game self but I still think he will be a 20ppg scorer in this league. I say that because to average 20 you have to be able to do more than one thing well. Right now Marvin shots the ball extremely well (albeit he needs to extend his range) and toward the end of the season he started to develop a little jump hook on the block. On the right block he could go over either shoulder and on the left block he could go over the left shoulder. So it that part of his game continues to develop and he extends his range I think he will be dangerous. Yea, I know alot of IF but I think with a good summer of work its very doable.
By Author
July 3, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Apparently, Clyde has never heard of the term “expiring contract.”
By The Realist
July 3, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
fudd21, I agree with you about Marvin’s potential. I must ask though: How many offseasons have we talked about Marvin’s potential? How many times have we said, “This should be a breakout year for him”? How many more “potential breakout seasons” do we give him before we finally chalk it up as a miss?
By jhan
July 3, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
If we sign Smith for 13.4M, Chills for 7M & we already have Bibby for 14M, doesn’t that give us 34M worth of assets to work with? We also have our draft picks going forward to use.
If other teams really want our boys, then we make them give us value in return. If nobody wants our boys, then we keep the 2 Joshes & deal Bibby.
Everyone needs to look at our players as business assets - not personal friends. There is no place for friendship & feelings in business. You must do what is best for the team/company otherwise you are doomed to failure.
By MannyT
July 3, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
I think the MAX you can offer a 4 yr player that is not already on your team is 25% of the cap plus 8% raises on a 5 yr contract. In this case with an estimated cap of 58 million, the MAX 5 yr contract would be just over 85 million…so there is a limit to the RFA love.
Welcome back Ando Hope things go smoothly.
If we let Smith go, his cap charge becomes our salary cap savings. That number is just under 3.2 Million. Add that to the cap space we would have and we can offer about 9 million as a first year salary. Total package for 5 yrs/about 52-53 million. The top RFA big is Okafor. I think he was offered more than that from Charlotte, so I doubt he’d be the replacement.
Welcome back Ando Hope things go smoothly.
LL Cool Momma said knock you ouuuuut! Money is important, but it is also important how you treat people. Because Josh could end up here on the exact offer that Philly makes, he won’t get shorted on the cash. What he could get shorted on is a sense that the Hawks are in his corner. We know he has a shaky relationship with the coach that just got a new deal. We also know that Philly is making the visible pitch to show him love. For the same pay would you prefer to work where they woo you or just tolerate you? Smith tends to play with a lot of emotion. It would be best for all if there was a good team/player relationship behind those emotions.
Welcome back Ando Hope things go smoothly. A suggestion to get out of the Groundhog Day loop—look at the summer league, but that won’t happen for 2 weeks. Maybe someone on that team shows enough promise to make the fall roster. If not, maybe offseason chats with Dark Karma will have to do.
Like jhan said—the roster needs to be better in November than it was in May. Keeping in mind the WUF (Woody undervaluation factor), Sund needs to dial up the right free agents to fill out the roster.
By HHoops
July 3, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
I wonder if any members of ASG ever get bored and need some laughter. I’m sure all they do is pull up these blogs and start reading and laughting. I’m going to the lake! Nothing is going to happen before July 9th and then we have 7 more days to see ASG really go to work! Happy 4th Hawks Fans!
By Clyde
July 3, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Author I was talking about trying to get rid of him before the season starts which will be hard.
And can anyone answer this question in regards to the Atlanta Dream. They were an expansion team this year so how come they did not get to pick first in the WNBA draft? I know Candace would have helped them at least win one game this year.
By newkid
July 3, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Isn’t it true that the final financial accounting to determine if a team’s payroll exceeds the cap penalty threshold is done at the end of June of each year? If yes, is it not logical to assemble ALL of the essential talent (somewhat irrespective of initial cap impact), then filter the lot on or before the trade deadline to get under the cap (by not taking on full salary equivalents) in preparation for the end of fiscal year accounting? Wouldn’t such an approach only be restricted by the funds available to pay salaries from season’s start to the trade deadline?
Could this have been BK’s plan when he traded for Bibby at the trade deadline? If he felt certain (hopely not just based upon a ‘feeling’) that he could move Bibby and/or Marvin - at or before the trade deadline - without having to take on full salary equivalents, then maybe purchasing J. Hayes and a big this summer AND retaining the Joshes isn’t beyond reason.
Regarding available funds, remember that JJ’s deal was front-end loaded, so payment of his deal is not actually consistent with what’s shown on the salary tables we access. There’s likely about a $2 million differential between JJ’s listed salary and actual payments. Also, because much of Speedy’s salary is paid via an insurer, funds are available here unless he attempts an ill-advised comeback. So, maybe there’s $6+ million real cash available beyond the estimated $71 million hard cap through the trade dealine?
Just saying…
By MannyT
July 3, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
jhan if we sign the Joshes with the intent of trading them, we will have to deal with BYC (base year compensation) issues. They are worth 1/2 salary value for trade purposes during 1st year of contract.
Bibby on the other hand is a mobile asset now…Golden State?
Looking longer term, how does this change Marvin’s next deal? His tender for 09-10 is over 7 million. He starts in front of Chills. I can see the cash register in his agents briefcase now.
For short term success and Marvin leverage, we need that shooter on the bench that can hit the 3. Statistically Chills is more of an effective 3 pt threat than Marvin.
doc I get the we should be able to win 37 games w/o big contracts and I agree to a point. I think other teams see the value in the Joshes due to WUF. If their coach is much better than our coach, they expect to get more out of the same players…so they are willing to value them higher.
Player used poorly is PAIN, used well is good CRAP.
By Astro Joe
July 3, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Look, if Smith signs an offer sheet of 5 for $65M, and I’m guessing the Hawks would be willing to go around 5/$60M, then is an 8% salary increase worth leaving your city? I lived 10 years in the NE, the cost of living increase in Philly will wipe out probably half of that 8% increase (unless dude plans to eat a crap-load of cheesesteaks).
By timein
July 3, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
anybody hear what the summer league roster looks like???Did we pick any non drafted free agents???Thats how West was last year out of tech
By newkid
July 3, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Best wishes Ando.
By I.MUS WRITE
July 3, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Sign Smoove now dam it!!!!! Youtube JS top ten plays from 06/07…nuff said
I would like to keep Chills,but if thats not possible maybe we can do a SNT with Houston.
Chills to Houston Battier/Joey Dorsey to Atlanta…..sounds like a winner to me- Battier has 3 point range and is a defensive stopper…. just ask Kobe how his d is. Dorsy is a yung man child in training.this way we insert Battier at the 3 and bring Marvin of the bench
Then sign Kwame or Elson to the MLE.
By Astro Joe
July 3, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Ando, I hope all goes well. It’s amazing that all that stuff that you spew didn’t back up on your any sooner. Take care and try to get some ribs smuggled into the room tomorrow.
By doc
July 3, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
yeah manny t you made my point. thanks. aj didnt hero glavine take i mil more with the mets with a huge loss on the income due to cost of living just to say he could do it?
isnt philly a better town to get national exposure to help defray some of those costs if he is as good as everyone thinks he is going to be, if not now?
i wouldnt be surprised and suspect folks are going to choke when they see the offer. tried to warn ya.
By MannyT
July 3, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Clyde It was arbitrary. The league assigned the 4th pick to the Dream before the draft lottery.
From a marketing standpoint, you have a better chance to develop the CP brand if she goes to an established team. More wins, more TV games, etc. She might not look as dominant on an expansion team. Don’t get me wrong, she would be a top player, but here she might see the double & triple teams very often.
The Dream has pulled several trades this season. They are working to get better, but they haven’t had much practice time or luck. The center from Brazil (DeSouza) was banging like a champ when I saw her 1st game (vs Detroit Shock) at our home opener. Unfortunately she broke her leg about a week later. Betty Lennox is their JJ, but she’s in her 30s so you don’t know how long she will keep it up.
Dream on.
By cp
July 3, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Adding James Jones or Jarvis Hayes along with Kwame Brown would be some nice additions IF we bring back our own free agents. I wanted to give Gerald Green a shot but the Mavs scoooped him up. Call up James White and invite him to play for our summer team. He is a 2 guard who can defend and is very atheletic.
People why in the world would Philly give us Iguodala or Dalembert in a sign and trade? Im sorry its not going to happen. You might get some draft picks and a young player but thats about it. They are not giving up any of their core guys.
By Najeh Davenpoop
July 3, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
“Right now, a visit to the old blog is eerily similar to the movie “Groundhog Day”.”
Haha so true… this is why I’ve kinda scaled back my posts the last few weeks, because after a while I realized I was saying the same thing every day.
By 404atlhoops
July 3, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
I.MUS WRITE, I disagree with your Childress trade scenario because it does not make the Hawks better. Battier is a good defensive player but is nowhere as skilled as Childress. What make Childress so valuable is that he can move without the ball. So a team don’t have to run plays for him to score. Childress is one of the better offensive rebounders at the SF/SG position along with playing defense. Marvin Williams would not bring the same impact coming off bench as Childress. This is why so many teams want Childress. In my opinion, Marvin Williams is the most expendable player on the Hawks. Unforunately, he doesn’t have a high enough trade value to bring back what the Hawks need.
By Clyde
July 3, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Manny T so in other words big business took the place of fair competition.
By MsDee
July 3, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
How will Philly be able to afford Iggy or Dalembert if they sign Josh to 67mil? I would love to get Dalembert instead of Iggy cause a center is what we really need. Get Javis and a bk-up pf, we good!
By Astro Joe
July 3, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Doc, yeah, Glavine felt disrespected and unloved by suspender-boy. But Glavine was emotionally stronger when he left for the NE. I’m not sold that Smith is ready for the bright lights and big city (and added expectations of a phat contract in Philly). If memory serves me correctly, Al Jefferson received a 5/$65M deal last year.
And the Bibby trade got us in the playoffs, so it was needed. Here’s my thought, if the Hawks didn’t go almost .500 after the Bibby trade, we probably would have had closer to 32 wins and both Woody AND Smith would have been allowed to leave. Part of Smith’s value (to the Hawks and others) was borne in making the playoffs and going 7 games. I said last year, “link the team’s success to Smith’s contract”. Without the playoffs, no way would we even consider an $11M+ deal for this guy.
By MannyT
July 3, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Clyde it’s not automatically fair to give the expansion team the first pick. Even in the NBA, the draft lottery was created because of the game tanking theory. Sure it makes sense to give the worst team the top pick, but there are reasonable exceptions.
Look at your taxes. The feds have a sliding tax scale, but the people with th lowest effective tax rates are often those with the best accountants. Follow the rules, but find some tricky ones to give me a better deal.
Ms. Dee Your cap question keeps coming up. It’s a little wonkish, but the bottom line is simple…the Sixers can keep ALL of their players and still have enough cap money left to offer Josh (or any other free agent) a nice big contract that pays 60+ million over 5 years.
For me the bottom line of the summer is simple—Sund needs to put together a team that can/will win at least 41 games barring unusual circumstances.
I’m rooting for the Hawks to succeed, but the ASG kept Woody so that’s no excuse, just PAIN
A team that would win 47+ under a good coach + WUF * WAFFLE = 41+ wins.
Balls in their court. I made my 2008-09 season ticket commitment, but it is not a multi year contract. Now is the time for some good CRAP.
By I.MUS WRITE
July 3, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
404atlhoops- i hear what ur saying…. i would like to keep chillz if we can- trust me i saw atleast 75 games last year and I know that mans value to this team…..the problem is so do 8/9 other teams around the league which is why we may lose him. the way its looking now its either smoove or chills.
If we are gonna lose the guy then we need to get sumthing in return. I would really like to shop marvin but this organization really thinks alot of marvins one deminisional game. who knows maybe the 4th year is the charm…. maybe he will put up 20 a game and 8 boards……….Maybe Maybe Maybe………….I hope marvin does his thing this year becuz im really tired of beating that horse
By terrell barron
July 3, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Hey Fudd, I was saying that we should shop Marvin instead letting Smoove go to Philly. He’s not going anywhere, if we lose Josh Smith.
By KevinM
July 3, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Whatever the ASG does, its focus should be on how to improve our overall lineup, whether that means moving a Josh and signing one, or simply getting us a couple of rebounders in here. We have shooters in JJ, Bibby and Marvin. I think they get enough shots up. We just need to control the boards more because Zaza won’t be bringing it for 80+ games. And while we are in a state in influx, is anyone hearing if these guys are working out together? Is Woody’s offense so simple that they don’t need to prepare for it? Our bench can’t get much weaker than it already is and for those who are looking for the Hawks to move Bibby, forget about it! Woody isn’t turning the job over to Acie. He lets Bibby get max minutes and will then blame him for the results on the floor. Woody has a way of staying out of the line of fire. (How else could he have been brought back?) Give me a new starter this offseason and 2 more bench players and the whole town will be interested in watching us trying to go .500. And get ready, because Marvin isn’t going to come cheap next year.
By RealSquawk
July 3, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Come on gents and ladies you seem so very adamant about the necessity of keeping Smith and trying to keep Childress, but really loosing both would not be that bad.
Lets think about it like this Management offered Smith $45 million dollars which he turned down. Now Smith could be offered something as high as lets see $66.7 million. All the while they completely burned Childress by not offering him anything and now Childress is (and I am guessing) seeing suitors from everywhere.
Lets look at this from a Philadelphia point view you now have a chance to solidify yourself at the 4 and the 6 and keep Andre and Louis Williams while also keeping Samuel Dalembert. With a veteran point guard and Thaddeus Young. Come on guys if you were Philly would you not be doing everything in your power to woo Mr. Smith and Childress to your more stable more historic team a team that values and appreciates the talents brought to the table by Smith and Childress.
Let us not forget how the ASG treats people they really want they told Mike Woodson playoffs and you stay. Mike Woodson made it to the playoffs and was taken care of.
Smith and Childress not so much
My side says let them go. WE still got Mike Bibby-Joe Johnson-Marvin Williams-Al Horford- and a Center….OOOOOOOOO wait a minute is that the half court team that Mike Woodson has been dreaming of!!! I think it is and it leaves us cap space for what is that the summer of 2009 and 2010.
I mean come on guys really loosing Smith and Childress could it really be that bad??
And what about Salim he is they guy who is going to leave and become the (Gilbert Arenas that got away) allstar no one expected and then how are we going to look.
But hey at least we got Woodson right? And cap space.
Really what is there that Arenas can do that Salim can’t?
By darrell starks
July 3, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
NO WAY SIGN DALEMBERT HE IS NOT A DOMNATING CENTER I WOULD RATHER BRING IN A KWAME BROWN ON THE LO LO AND SIGN A IGGLU FROM SIXERS LOOK LET ME SAY THIS IN TILL WE GE A STAR PLAYER AT THE 3 POSTION TO GO WITH JOE THIS TEAM WILL NOT GO ANY WHERE STARTERS ACIE, JOE, IGGY FROM SIXERS OR CAMELO FROM DENVER HORFORD KWAME BROWN BENCH PLAYER SALIM, CHRIS DUHON, JARVIS HAYES, ZAZA, SOLLOM JONES,
By Dennis
July 3, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
I say sign and trade Josh Smith. He can be extremely good but he can also be extremely bad at times. Keep Chill, for less money than Smith and work to get a shooter, James Jones would be primo. Heck, I’d offer Magette as well, they need some upfront scoring and 22 a game from him last year, he’s no slouch. Besides Joe, we have no one who can score on his own. James Jones would give us a good kickout guy and Magette would give us some relief in the front court. Marvin’s got to make it happen this year and early. If he doesn’t, they could look at trading him rather than deal with his contract.
By The Dark Karma
July 3, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
MANNYT, very astute. When did you figure it out? You know what I am referring to.
It amuses me greatly to hear some of the things that have come up. Several people, some more noted than others, have presented the idea that our players are not held in high regard around the league. Clearly this is not so. KIRKNGA asked why nine or ten teams were not lined up asking about one of our players. Eight teams have made contact about Childress. Perhaps this is an answer to your question, eh? I imagine that there are several more inquiring about Smith, but waiting to see how the PHiladelphia situation turns out.
Even more amusing is the idea some people staunchly believe that management wisely waited on Smith and allowed the so called market to put a figure to his value. Yet those same people are already beginning to complain that Smith will return and be overpaid. I do not believe I could laugh harder. One simply cannot have it both ways. What was expected? Management saw fit to let someone else set the market price, taking away a certain measure of control. Did some truly expect other teams to give the same or similar low ball offers to Smith? Truly amusing. Truly.
One wonders why there is still an argument about Smith’s worth. Once more, it is management that allowed this to unfold. For those who advocated that move, you are getting precisely what you asked for. He is worth every dollar he is offered if you wish to keep him. If not, management must figure out how to replace him. Make no mistake, his production must be replaced. His athletic ability, which is directly related to his productive ability, is next to impossible to replace.
One cannot blame Smith if he wants to move. Sure his current team can match any offer. But imagine if you could make the same amount of money working for two different companies. The one you currently work for has just re-hired your boss, whom you have no love for. You often times do not get to do the work you are best at, and cannot use the methods that make you most efficient. The other company offers you a more stable management system, a boss who is respected by those under him, and a chance to do what you do best and are most comfortable and efficient with. For most of us, there would be no difficulty in choice.
As more and more teams become interested in both of our restricted free agents, we have better chances of improving this team. If eight different teams have made contact about Childress, surely at least one or two have pieces that we can make use of. Draft picks are nothing to sniff at. At this current pace, and with the possibility of Smith not returning, we will be very active in the draft as it is. I wonder how many can see the chain reaction that comes from certain decisions made prior to this point?
By The Dark Karma
July 3, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
ANDO, be well. A rushed recovery is also not in order, but rather enjoy these slower moments. Else you may find yourself repeating the general process in different ways for different reasons. Heal and enjoy family. Know that we await you and your usual colorful commentary. Your seat is saved. The fibbers’ saloon is incomplete in your absence, yes?
By SB
July 3, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Where are you guy’s getting these numbers for Smith? Is their a site reporting what Philly is offering?
By Ken Strickland
July 3, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
Tell me what we think of this suggestion.
(1)Resign both Joshes
(2)Move Smoove to SF and Horford to PF.
(3)Move Zaza to starting C and Marvin to the bench.
Marvin gives us that big, versatile shooter off the bench. Horford and Zaza gives us very good outside shooting and could compensate for losing Marvin’s outside shooting. They would open up the inside for Smoove, who’d give us strong inside OFF that would probably require a double team, since very few SF’s could control him DEF.
When Bibby and Zaza’s contracts expire, we can afford to sign what we need through FA. We can use Speedy’s contract to resign JJ when he becomes a FA. Just a thought designed to hold on to our core players.
By HB Ando
July 3, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
Ken, that idea will not work. And the reason is exactly the basis for all my previous suggestions that the team find a big who’s most comfortable facing the basket and shooting from 17 feet on out. They don’t need to be a great rebounder, but would need to be solid enough, defending the low block, to not be a liability when on the floor. Neither Al nor Smith has shown themselves to be a consistent outside shooting threat. The starting line up you suggest (as I have mentioned several times before, with Zaza, or anyone like him plugged into his role) is that we’d have the worst shooting front line in the league. This is why I liked guys like Love and Koufos in the recent draft, and why I think, despite his lack of rebounding, at this early stage in his career, that a Bargnani would work. If Smith is your 3 and Horford is your 4 (and I like that idea very much), you MUST have a five who can keep defenses honest facing the basket, which would keep teams from packing the lane against Horford’s post ups, and sagging against Smith’s drives. I think you’d see a mmodified triangle and 2, with JJ being overplayed on the wing, to limit his open looks at the 3, which would bait him into attacking an already over loaded paint area.
Gotta have a shooter at the 5, to truly optimize the Smith/Horford as 3 and 4 of the future (again, this is rehashing stuff I’ve said many, many months ago).
With Oneal going to join Bosh in Toronto, Bargnani may be the odd man out. But they could benefit from a legitimate, multi-skilled 3. I’d love to see the two teams swap Marvin from Bargnani, but expect that a multi-player deal, including a sign-and-trade of Chillz, would be necessary. Bargnani can drain the 3, block shots, and attack the basket. He doesn’t like to rebound, and his mid-range game is weak. But he’d FIT with Horford and Smith very well, as their games would complement each other very well (and Horford and Smith would cover his rebounding defenciencies, in exchange for him covering for their poor outside shooting).
For all the ongoing discussion about Horford as a five, versus a four, one only has to look back at Barkley’s effusive praise of Horford, during the all-star weekend, as a potentially great power forward. And that issue is merely a repeat of conversations that started soon after Horford was drafted. Being talented enough to cover for our lack of a viable center, and being played out of position, and limiting his potential to be a great four, are two totally different issues.
By RealSquawk
July 3, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
HB ANDO
Bargnani can play the three right now so I don’t see Toronto swapping a front line that tall and talented for MArvin Williams nope not going to happen at least not in my opinion
COME ON GUYS WE COULD MAKE THE PLAYOFFS WITH MIKE BIBBY-JOE JOHNSON- MARVIN WILLIAMS- AL HORFORD- AND A LANE FILLING BIG!!!
By Mike is back
July 3, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
I hate to keep repeating what everyone has already said…so I’m on the sideline until we see some numbers. I still read everyone responses daily…BTW welcome back HB…I’m returning from some medical issues myself…spent time at Northside and Piedmont. I’ll still keep reading daily…cause Sekou and the guys crack me up…cause I love the Hawks…and cause this blogs is like therapy for me when I need a laugh.
SalimFan, being meaning to give you props for the Smoove block shots link…It was off the chainnnnnn.
MannyT you must be an accountant by trade Bro…I am always enlighten by your breakdown of actual and perceived value of RFAs, FAs, and S&T deals…hopefully Sund and BASG want drop the ball this time around.
Astro Joe, give it up brooooooo. Smoove left home and went to Oak Hill Academy his senior year in HS to prepare for the NBA…I don’t think Smoove will be that overwhelm…besides Philly plays the type of up-tempo basketball he craves. I think Philly’s style of play alone with a ridiculous front loaded contract will easily make Smoove forget about the City of Brotherly Love