Hawks

By doc

June 30, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

i carry forward from the previous blog and fits with tday’s topic as well.

By doc June 30, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this dark karma if you have been following closely the last three years your info is not new nor something that has not been said before. it was very eloquent and articulate with a concise quality that we all appreciate and applaud. i know it is heartfelt as a fan that wont be deluded into thinking the path is one that can be traversed without effort on the part of BASG.

if the BASG is able to do what they say then we will have some fun the next few years. is they blow it up with inaction this summer as they did to the hockey team we are back in lottery hell and firmly placing this town into the realm of clips of the east and analogy i along with others have used in the past.

well it seems i have not moved into the passing lane and sit next to grandma as the driver of the jalopy. it is still early in the game and feeling 40 miles an hour is not the speed i want to go in this new age of free agency. we find out tomorrow what teams are willing to JUMP into the fast lane.

By Maniac is accurate

June 30, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

I hope the Hawks can keep both and add decent veteran help in the middle. After that, our biggest liability remains Woodson.

By CRobinson

June 30, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

so Philly is really going to do this? If they do how much of the Hawks decision would be operational and how much of it would be plain old cheapness Sekou? In other terms, what beyond the price tag would be a reason the Hawks wouldn’t match?

By j

June 30, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

We are so screwed.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 30, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

The Hawks have insisted that they will match and until they say or do anything otherwise, I’m willing to hold them to that. Teams always say they’ll match (Phoenix bluffed their way to two draft picks and Boris Diaw insisting as much), as an effort to scare off potential suitors and as a PR move. But you don’t know what they’ll do until an offer sheet hits the table. The player has to get that offer sheet and has to sign the dang thing to really make things interesting.

By phillipian

June 30, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

If we don’t keep Josh Smith it is going to be hard to be enthused about the Hawks again. Josh Smith is ready to take the leap towards superstardom now - he has a better skill set than 95% of NBA players. To let Josh go for nothing or take back “lesser talent” in a trade is not acceptable.

If Hawks ownership chooses to “let Josh Smith walk” because of financial considerations, then Hawks really need to sell because good teams don’t let one of their best players walk.

By Ben

June 30, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, Did you say you had some great trade ideas for this team? I was curious what you think we could potentially get for Smoove if a trade were to go down. Do you think there’s any chance we dangle Bibby/Marvin out there for a star? Or maybe trade Bibby and clear up space to resign the JOshes?

By ATLplayer

June 30, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Well I guess we can all blame this on Billy Knight for NOT signing them last year. We can not replace Smith period. He has to be resigned. SEKOU, can the Hawks trade Bibby to save money??? If so give the keys to Law and sign a decent backup PG and Big man. CUT SPEEDY ASAP. Bibby is slow and Law is the future.

By khao$

June 30, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Thank you Sekou! I’ve maintained throughout, in order to do a sign and trade all parties have to be on board. See the Al Harrigton debacle to see how hard it is to accomplish this. There has been a group out there coming up with all of these elaborate sign and trade deals. One, you don’t know if you’re going to get equal compensation. Two, if a team has cap space, they are in a position to to make things difficult for a cash strapped ASG. Make no mistake, if we allow Josh Smith to walk away for nothing or a minimum return, it will be nothing short of a nightmare. Any capital gained from the Boston series would have been lost.

By Sautee

June 30, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

If these owners are that blind…. Well I’ll just predict that if they don’t match to keep Smoove, attendance WILL be down next year. And most of the air out of the balloon blown up by the playoff wins.

By Ben

June 30, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Josh Smith may be exciting since he has highlight reel type plays. He’s fun to watch, but by no means a must have for the Hawks. Chances are, most of the blocked dunks you see on a breakaway were Smoove dribbling the ball off his foot to begin with. At times, Smith can be seen as a star…but there are just as many times where I think he has hurt us.

If you need Josh Smith to be a Hawk to be enthused, then just fade away like all the other bandwagoners who are slowly coming back. His skill set is not better than 95% of the NBA. His jumpshot is below average and his ball handling is well below average. He has improved, but the only real thing Smith has above most NBA players is his athletic ability, not skills.

I do agree if Smith is not part of the Hawks we need to at least get something.

By Ramon

June 30, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

ATL, you can’t blame BK for this. Do you really think ownership would’ve allowed him to sign the extension for that amount last season?

By firehawk

June 30, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Phillipian,

His basketball IQ, ball handling skills, and shot selection would fit more into the lower 5% of the league. Other than that I would agree with you on Smith. Too bad the guy doesn’t work on those other skills, and the main reason no one outside of a hawks uniform views him as a perennial all-star.

By jds

June 30, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Hawks NEED to keep at least Josh Smith. It’ll stink to lose Childress, but Smith is a neccessity.

By Astro Joe

June 30, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

I hope that someone tells Smith about Philadelphia. I hope they tell him that they have real winters there and that the NBA season is played during the winter. I hope they tell him that their fans are notorious for being hard on both visitors AND their own players. I hope he doesn’t ask Lou Williams for advice, because he is a former 2nd round pick with virtually zero expectations from the fan base. What will Sixers fans say/do when he shoots 30% over his first 15 games while earning about $12M? Or when he has a 3-5 game stretch with more TOs than blocks? How will the Philly media react when he runs past Andre Miller and leads a fast-break that results in a bad turnover? And when old school coach Mo Cheeks sits him down for his transgressions, will Smith think of himself as a victim? Does Smith expect that he can be the shot-blocking intimidator alongside Dalembert? Seems hard to have 2 weakside defenders chasing the ball, won’t that result in a ton of open looks? Will Cheeks prefer to have Smith serve as the primary weak side shot-blocker or will he want that from Dalembert (so that Smith can release to start a fast-break attack)? And if Smith is “relieved” of some of his shot-blocking responsibilities, does that make him more or less valuable as a free agent? Maybe Smith should talk to Donovan McNabb, to understand how quickly Philly can turn on an athlete. Maybe he should consider if he is truly mentally tough enough to deal with fan reaction if he has his normally rough November, especially with the added pressure of a recently inked fat contract? Oh and did I mention the winters in Philadelphia?

I hope Smith does his due diligence before signing the first offer sheet placed before him.

By Reggie

June 30, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Sekou

Do you see a chance in which the hawks can make a run at SF James Jones from Portland since he opted out?

By Melly

June 30, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

Bottom line is this: The Hawks were 7 games under .500 WITH the Josh’s. How can we expect to be anywhere close to this record if they are not signed? Best case scenario for this team is to sign the Josh’s, have bibby for the entire season, and improve 10 games, which barely puts us over .500, but gets us the 6th or 7th seed. Let’s face it, no free agents are busting down the door to join this team, so we are basically stuck with the nucleus we have for the next several years. To not have one or both the Josh’s would be painful.

By Matt

June 30, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

I will never understand why people think that it was a mistake for the Hawks to make Smith play out this year rather than offering him a big-time contract last year. Smith is not a superstar, and he never will be one. He was already demanding an average of $11M/year over 5 years last year. At most, we’ll be paying him an average of $12M/year over 6 years now. Why on earth should we have, as a wise man wrote in the last blog, bid against ourselves and overpaid to keep someone who clearly will never be our best player? I seriously don’t see why this is a bad thing.

Sorry, Sekou. No offense to you - just a difference of opinion.

By ILL-Logical

June 30, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

OK, lets just get real here: The ASG is BROKE! All of the deafening silence coming from them is not accumulated wisdom, its abject fear.

Fear of fan reaction to their financial inabilities; fear of spending what they don’t have to spend and,most of all ,just plain old fear of failure.

So do not fret nor frown, just accept the fact that nothing good is going to happen here, inspite of what Sund says: his job is strictly PR. Admiral Gearson is sailing the Titanic. Did someone say they saw something large looming on the horizon?

By Brian

June 30, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Can we dangle Williams and Claxton (for salary savings purposes) out there for a legitimate big man, maybe Biedrens and Pietrus? Or could we get Frye and Pryzbilla from Portland for that package? I guess we might have to add a pick too, but I think either of those deals would be doable. Both teams have holes at SF.

By dj

June 30, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

there’s pretty much no way in heaven or hell the hawks will let Josh Smith go, i don’t see how anybody can say “lets just try to get something for him” when there really isnt anybody in the NBA that can come close to bringing what Smith provides, execpt maybe LeBron James, and i dont think he’s on the trade market. why do people keep harping on this young man’s “ball handling ability” this young man isn’t a point guard, he can handle the ball just fine, he need to be fed the ball on the block or in transition. JOsh Smith is a fine jumpshooter, not good or great, but he is fine and he’s gonna improve! this guy has barely scratched the surface of his potential, he is on the brink of superstardom in this league! And by superstardom i mean Hawks leading scorer, shot blocker, and one of the top rebounders, and an undisputed all-star in the league! Josh Smith is really the hawks best player and he deserves whatever he asks for, the Hawks will pay him.

By I.MUS WRITE

June 30, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

If josh bolts for Philly or we do a sign and trade that brings us back less- Portland will be my favorite yung team. I wish these clowns would sell this team-I really dont see them doing much in free agency

Portland’s owner and GM are on a mission to bring a winner back to the rose garden. They are’nt afraid to spend money or get on the phones to wheel n deal. They had a talented bunch last year now they add Bayless,Diogu,Oden and N.Batum a promising 19yo who is kinda like a yung scottie pippen…………….. This is so unfair……..

By Speedy Claxton

June 30, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

I think if the team trades Bibby and Acie Law we can really upgrade in other areas, because PG will be set with me this year. Mark it down, baby, I am back!

By MikeJones

June 30, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Nice informative well put together article. Thank you.

By dj

June 30, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

the best hawks blog ever

childress is a fine 6th, he wouldn’t even look right in another team’s jersey, we gotta keep the joshes there’s no question about it

By Astro Joe

June 30, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Sautee, from the previous blog, the answer is yes, BK should have (and may have) asked that question. But how about his? Didn’t Smith’s agents arrange for him to work with Hakeem and Calvin Murphy last summer? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, they thought that giving Smith a season to put into practice what he learned from 2 HOFers might increase his contract value? It still comes back to the need to have 2 parties interested in closing a deal. And for some very good reasons, both sides logically could have decided that their position would be strengthened by another season. And here we are, some 89 games later (including playoffs) and I’m STILL guessing that both sides could honestly want to put off a long-term deal for another season (but they won’t). Because this guy is still an enigma. Bad first month, very good 2-3 months followed by average at best play in the last 20-25 games of the season. I was surprised when I compared his averages between the last 2 years. Not exactly a huge difference. But that’s because most of his numbers came down in those last 20-25 games.

Interestingly, there is a 22 year-old who was far more consistent and had his best season as a pro last year who is also up for an extension. And virtually no one has even mentioned the need to “wrap up” his contract. His game has flaws and the biggest knock on him is something that is not his responsibility (his draft position). But this player seemed to understand his role, improved his defensive intensity and for a long stretch of the season, consistently scored double-digit points and was an integral part of the team’s offense. And again, at 22, he still has upside left in his game. Anyone bent out of shape if the Hawks wait another 82 games to evaluate his long-term viability with the team?

By Hawksville Resident

June 30, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Save the drama. Resign both Joshes. Pick up a legit center and we’ll be one of the most feared teams in the league!

By mike

June 30, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Some of the reasoning on this blog just goes to show why these clowns are writing to it. Where ever these Josh’s go, just get the money.

By Ken Strickland

June 30, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Lets just hope ownership maintains their commitment and bites the financial bullet for one yr and resign both Joshes. Bibby’s 14M contract comes off the books after this yr. When JJ’s contract is up, Speedy’s contract comes off the books. If ownership looks ahead, and makes a sacrifice this yr, we can keep our basic core intact.

As fans, we also have to step up and provide financial support for the franchise. We have to attend gms and not just hang out on the computer espousing Hawks talk. I plan to increase my attendance, and I’m temporarily living out of state. We also need to become vocal with ownership, not just on these blogs, especially if Woodson doesn’t hold up his end and starts to hold this team back. LET’S HOPE FOR THE BEST.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

June 30, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Question to Sekou (or someone with a bit more salary cap structure insight):

IF Smith and Childress are resigned, the Hawks will still have their mid-level exception, correct? Or could Childress’ deal potentially be for the mid-level?

Will they also have their two-year vets exception?

By Clyde

June 30, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

Ken I’m tired of hoping foer the best. We have been doing that for 9 years and what have we got to show for it? Nothing. Even with Smooth and Chill there is no guarantee we will break the streak of 9 consecutive losing seasons. Billy spent too much money on trash while he was here and now is the time to pay for it.

By HHoops

June 30, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

Let’s look @ the future of the Hawks for a moment and quit living in the past.

1. Both Joshes are going to get offers from other teams. Both Joshes will probably be patient before signing an offer sheet, to see if there is a better offer coming from another team. We will have 7 days to match the offer that they sign.

2. The Hawks will make offers themselves to FA or RFA as soon as possible. It would be to the Hawks advantage to make their own offers in free agency and see who they are going to be able to sign, before they match offers that have been made to the Josh’s. I expect they are getting their offers ready today in order to make calls tonight @ 12:01.

3. We all know that the Hawks need a BIG and another shooter. It is going to be very interesting to see how they will go about this. Will they try to trade Bibby to free up some money to sign the Josh’s? Will they trade Marvin to get one of these pieces? One thing is for sure, in any trade talks that the Hawks are engaged in, you can bet they will try to include Speedy so they can free up that contract.

4. Will the Hawks make an offer to Beidrins @ Golden State or try to get him with a sign and trade using any combination of Marvin, Bibby, Zaza, etc?

The next few weeks are going to be exciting for the future of the Hawks!!!

By Eric

June 30, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Great article, Sekou.

You basically told us that other teams are interested in the Joshes and it will be a tough summer.

Thanks.

By Common Sense

June 30, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

You Guys are in trouble!

The ownership does not want to spend money. All you hawk fans are dreaming if you think the owners are going to sign both players and pick-up a free agent. Their money base is low. Limited local radio and local television revenue hampers this team.

Plus they need to trade Josh Smith and get some quality veteran in return.

By jhan

June 30, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Comparing Lebron & Josh Smith is flat out ridiculous. A lot more teams than Philly would be lining up to snatch him away if that were the case.

Josh Smith brings heart, passion & some unique physical abilities to the team that will be hard to replace. What he doesn’t bring is ball handling, post defense, accurate shooting or great decision making.

I would have no problem trading Josh for the right assets. A legit center & outside scoring threat would work. A trade exception or draft picks would make me cry & possibly not renew my tickets.

If we can resign Childress for under $6.5 million per year it has to be a no-brainer. He is an asset to this team on & off the court.

I like the James Jones signing idea. Why wouldn’t someone of his ilk want to play here. The coach only plays vets, the team needs a legit outside shooter & he could easily average 20-25 minutes a night.

I think many are wrong in assuming no vets would want to play with this team. Quality vets is what will bring this team from an 8th seed to a 4-5 seed & they are smart enough to realize that. Also Woody has the reputation of being friendly to “Vets” & rewarding them with consistent playing time.

Only time will tell.

By MsDee

June 30, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

I want to believe that its not just about the money with Josh Smith but that he just wants to be compensated fairly which leads me to hopely he would choose option #1 from Sekou “1) The Hawks can make an offer and come to terms with Smith and Childress and the process ends before it even starts (not likely on either front).” Because Josh Smith is from Atlanta, would love to be part of the growth and final development of this fanchise and to make that next level/step of the playoffs here!! Now Chills may be a different story. He’s not from here, he may wouldnt mine heading in another direction..hope not but if so, then I hope we could get someone of equal value or better in his place!!

By Kayne

June 30, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Josh was 2nd in the league in blocks with 2.8 per game.

However, he was 10th in the league in turnovers with 3.0 per game. He doesn’t even handle the ball as often as the likes of Nash, Kobe, JKidd, DWade, etc.

I love the way he gets up and blocks shots. He is awesome at doing that but his constant fumbling and giving free points to the other team has got to stop if the team is going to improve. I’m not sure if he’s worth the money or not.

By david

June 30, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

What’s happening to my city? Nothing everything is staying the same. So called experts are saying the Falcons are going 1 and 15. The Braves are all but finished and now the Hawks. They seem to be fighting to stay under 500. Only a pack of morons would make the decision to keep Woodson and to not make Josh & Josh happy campers by now. And to sign A Sac King and let Acie and Salim rot on the bench. Now the fun begins. Watch the implosion. What a joke if a young Smith is let go because of foolish careless decisions. No he’s not a great player like everything you read BUT he’s very very young and very capable (with a good coach) of becoming that player. To let him go at this point is a sin. To let Childress go is suicide. Let’s keep Woodson and Bibby (who a young young Rondo owned in the C’s series). Let’s go for 10 years in a row of being under 500. Go Hawks. The players play hard and want to win but continue to have the dumbest brain (owners, coach and GM) in all of sports over them. That’s including the Falcons.

By femhawkfan

June 30, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

i think it will be wonderful if the hawks can keep smoov and chill. these guys have put in the work and they deserve to get rewarded by the hawks. over the last four years, i have watched these guys grow and i want to continue to watch these guys grow in a hawks uniform.

By terrell barron

June 30, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Astro, you might be right, but he grew up in Atlanta, a city that known for not giving a f*******. about its star players. Look at Dominique, Steve Smith, Justice, Gant, Hossa, and Heatley, just to name a few. He knows from 1st hand experience that he could be next. And Donavon mighta got booed, but he’s still there.

By terrell barron

June 30, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Astro, you might be right, but he grew up in Atlanta, a city that’s known for not giving a f*******. about its star players. Look at Dominique, Steve Smith, Justice, Gant, Hossa, and Heatley, just to name a few. He knows from 1st hand experience that he could be next. And Donavon mighta got booed, but at least he’s still there.

By Dean Smith

June 30, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

HellOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Hawks fans,you guys and Jay Bilas are probably the only NBA fans that think Josh Smith isn’t the real deal holyfield.

By MannyT

June 30, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

The last few days, this part of the blogosphere has looked like chicken little w/o an altimeter.

On the one hand the sky is falling.

On the other hand it really fell nine years ago and has not risen.

If we are real honest, there are 2 facts that we don’t like to accept, but frame the whole free agent deal.

1. We really don’t know what the ASG is willing to spend for the upcoming season. I get that they want to win games and make money. If they spend a lot and see it as a temporary investment to get better for the long run, it could happen. If they see it as pouring a bunch of money in for little or no improvement, it’s unlikely that we see both Joshes back.

2. Improving the roster can happen with the Joshes or without them. We really need to look at the roster for the start of the season. Free agency will have a big impact, but we can still do trades after free agency has settled.

There would be more certainty if the Joshes had been extended last year, but they weren’t. Not a bad thing because you got to see another year before making the commitment. You may have to pay for waiting, but it was a reasonable thing to do. Clear examples were on the roster. No one scream that Salim wasn’t extended last season. I don’t see lots of talk about extending Zaza & Bibby this summer. If Zaza has a break out year, we may want him instead of the cap space next summer. Do you want to choose by the end of October or wait?

Look at several of the vets that moved on draft night. Most of the Minnesota vets were moved because they had bad contracts. You all want to put Speedy in every deal due to the dead weight of his contract.

I don’t expect a perfect run of contracts. Even Portland had to take a bad contract (LaFrentz) from Boston when Pritchard was dealing a few summers ago. They would have another if they hadn’t recently gotten a medical deal on Darius Miles.

You have no choice but wait. Nothing will be official until July 9th at the earliest. More than likely our situations may drag on longer.

My PEST (predictive events sphere of truth) says Chills will be back unless it is one of those things where we want him to leave outside of basketball. Like they way D. Fisher left Utah last summer. They wanted him, but were willing to let him go for non-basketball reasons.

Chills gets mid level exception money for at least 3 years.

Smith does not register on the PEST. I want him here, but I would let him walk for the right deal. Get me a serious shooter and a good center for the 12-14 million and I’d let him go. (For example: Brad Miller, Francisco Garcia & a 2nd round pick)

By giving up his blocks you’d get two good defenders and shooters for about the same money. You also get to move Al to the 4 and he can develop his low post offense.

Until the roster is set, don’t worry because we haven’t made any moves during a league enforced time out.

There is no real PAIN (or CRAP) before July 9th.

By cj

June 30, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

First we do a sign and trade Josh Smith and Josh Childress. Then we make a itrade to Portland For Greg Oden and Jerryd Bayless they get Speedy Claxton, Solomon Jones, Zaza Pachulia, Mike Bibby,and Marvin Williams and 2009 2 pick, 2010 frist pick and 2010 2 pick.Then we trade Josh Smith and Josh Childress and a 2011 frist pick and 2 pick to New Jersey for Yi Jianlian,Sean Williams and Brook Lopez. Then you sign Free Agent Gilbert Arenas and Jason Williams and Patrick O’Bryant and Sign back Mario West. Then we make one more trade we trade Gilbert Arenas, Acie Law to Memphis for Marc Gasol, Javaris Crittenton, OJ Mayo . Best Team in the NBA. AKA CJ

By die hard Hawks fan

June 30, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith is a stat-hoggin player that is a true workhorse - his # are great for the hawks and all the Fantasy Basketball coaches -

Any team would love to have him but I can tell you this - Josh needs to get a 5 year 50 million dollar contract from the Hawks and he need to man up and say so!

To the owner/new GM of the Hawks - stop bucking around and get this mess taken care of.

As for Josh Childress - he is a sixth man player - I would let the market dictate how much he is worth. if he too expensive then trade him before u get baited!

By MannyT

June 30, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

This offseason is where the real facts will help or harm the team. In the past several years this has not been an attractive free agent destination for any players that could contribute w/o stealing money.

Does a 37 win playoff run make it more appealing to come here for a fair price or will we be behind places like Philly, Portland, Charlotte, Memphis in attracting free agents.

The good news is that we are not in the market for all stars, just solid veteran contributors.

The bad news is that they may not come here if the agents believe that we are a franchise in chaos.

This is the time that you have your core talk up the opportunity, especially with players that have the same agents.

So for the month of July carry this thought—Joe Johnson thinks the world of Woody, (free agent name) should too! Come play in Atlanta.

Jedi Mind Trick CRAP is acceptable.

By Sautee

June 30, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe

Good point in your earlier post about the expectations Smoove could face in Philly. Maybe he’ll read your post.

Regarding your 11:30 post, I would hope that Josh initiated that(training with Hakeem and C. Murphy) in order to be a better player, which I’m convinced he’s committed to, and not just to enhance his bargaining position.

And IF the Hawks are truly committed to Marvin being a vital cog of this “8 man core” then I’d say yes, they would be wise to tie him up now at his current value (which is likely even lower than Josh last year). Don’t think Marvin’s agent would do it though, and maybe that’s your point.

Also, Marvin may have been more consistent than Smoove, but he didn’t come close to the same production, as Woodson noted in his post-season interview.

Here’s what you said about Marvin: “His game has flaws and the biggest knock on him is something that is not his responsibility (his draft position).”

Joe, I’ll disagree. I think the biggest knock on Marvin is his lack of productivity, relative to his size and talent. Period.

The fact that he was drafted #2 overall, only means that he had a higher level of expectation attached (ask Darko). Of course Marvin had no say over when he was drafted. But I DON’T think it’s unreasonable to have high expectations of someone who is talked about (by “Nique”, no less) as a “once-in-ten-year” player.

I like Marvin and was one of the folks drinking the Marvin Kool-aid at that draft. But I don’t think anyone can argue the fact that his production has been disappointing, relative to the expectation of a #2 overall pick. And shouldn’t a 6’ 9” player with a smooth stroke be able to increase his range to 23’?

Like you said about Josh, it may be above the shoulders, at least in the lack of aggressiveness, and confidence.

Do you have any info on what Marvin is working on this summer? I’m hoping he’s in the gym shooting 1000 3 pointers a day.

By diehard hawks fan

June 30, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

CJ are u dreaming or smoking?

If u smoking give me some of that stuff cuz that is a far fetch dream!

Hawks need to see why they choked against the Celts! I mean it really easy - weak bench!

The Hawks needs to sign J-Smith to a 5 years 25 million dollar contract with incentives and bonus that can inflated it to 50 million dollars.

AS for J-Childress - he should have been traded for a first round draft pick and cash imo

By A Thinking Fan

June 30, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Broke when owning an NBA franchise is a very bad position to be in. You have little or no options to work with. BASG!

By Mike is back

June 30, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

I usually start off by stating the obvious reason why the Hawks should sign both Joshes. But I will start with a little common sense this time. The vast majority of the people on this blog work somewhere, some of us may be fortunate enough that they don’t have to work, but that’s certainly not me. When you work, you want maximum dollar for your services…That’s my point…This contract situation is about one thing…getting paidddd….No one should blame JS or Chill for wanting to collect maximum dollars for their services.

There is not a person on this blog that can honestly say if they were in the same situation, they wouldn’t do the same thing. Let’s face it…the BASG took a gamble and they lost. If Phoenix had a chance to do JJ contract negotiation over again, I’m willing to bet they would matched.

We can talk about all the flaws in JS game, but that doesn’t matter either. How many times have we seen a player generate a big Buzz in the playoff and parley that into a big payday…JS is not the first, and he want be the last. Ben Wallace did it, he’s with his second team since signing his big contract…but he still gets his 60mil…So Astro Joe why I feel you on the Philly fan base…I doubt if JS will let the fans of Philly stand in the way of getting millions of dollars. It’s not a question of what we think JS is worth…it what teams in the NBA is willing to pay him.

There is only one group responsible for the Hawks being in this contract mess and that’s the BASG…But base on everything Sund has done up to this point…I agree with Sekou…I think they will resign both Joshes…which want make everyone happy either…Let’s face it…It is what it isssssss.

So Sekou can you at lease give us your list of the bottom feeder FAs that you think Sund might be interested in pursuing?

By norcrossfan

June 30, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

i wonder if we could do a sign and trade with childress + a draft pick for kristic of the nets. he is a solid, though not overwhelming, center. the nets have acquired some big men recently and he may be expendable. getting kristic would allow horford to move to the four at times. zaza + kristic + horford is a decent big man rotation. plus, if we do sign josh smith, we shouldn’t need a goliath at center to help protect the rim.

what do you guys think? the nets did give up jefferson, so childress could fit in around there with yi jianlan and bobby simmons (i can’t remember who they drafted— ryan anderson?)

By SSI Fan

June 30, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Nothing brings more differences of opinions to this site than a discussion of Josh Smith’s ability. He is a great athlete, but other than blocking shots and making impressive slam dunks tell me basketball skills he has. He doesn’t shoot the ball he throws it toward the basket. I would be hesitant to give him $11 or $12 million a year in hopes that he would improve his basketball skills.

By STRETCH

June 30, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

The Hawks wont win again cause they are focusing on the wrong kind of player. JSmith is NOT the “team player” that could help win a championship.

As long as he’s shooting bricks, Hawks wont get past the first round. Need to have a core of players that play together…at this moment, the Hawks dont have that.

By Sautee

June 30, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

SSI Fan

Are you baiting us?

“He is a great athlete, but other than blocking shots and making impressive slam dunks tell me basketball skills he has.”

OK, I’ll tell you:

8.2 rebounds per game for a SF playing PF

3.4 assists per game

1.5 steals per game

71% FT shooting, on 5.8 attempts per game - by FAR the highest on the Hawks.

So are these not “basketball skills”??????

By McRly?

June 30, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Keep em both. Move Bibby and another for a big if you have to. Acie’s ready. Pick up a servicable journeyman PG if you have to. If they can do those things plus unload Speedy then I’ll buy everyone in the front office a Coke. Happy 4th everybody.

By SalimFan

June 30, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

This hatred twoard Josh smith’s game is so ludacris I can’t even comment about how wrong you people are right now.

By MannyT

June 30, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Mike The list you asked about was in the prior blog, Draft Mockery

Sure the Joshes want to get paid, but you have to usually pay more to get folks locked up early. On the other hand, negotiations also pivot on what you think you can get. If you overvalue yourself, the team is smart to let you shop around. If you undervalue yourself, the team should get the deal done quickly.

Last year, Dwight Howard and Al Jefferson did extension deals. Dwight’s is better, but not as good a deal as Rashard Lewis. I’d rather pair Howard with Jefferson for less $$, but negotiations don’t quite work that way. Jefferson is the highest paid Timberwolf. What others get paid on your team often factors in on what other guys think they should be paid.

I’d take Jefferson for Smith in a minute. Same age, but a game that is a much better fit for the PF/C.

This gets even more fun next summer. Is Marvin worth a 7.3 Million tender offer? Without a 3pt shot or a strong post up game—not a chance.

Some folks do pay a premium for PAIN.

By AtlFlavor

June 30, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Philly did draft the guy from Florida. I think that keeps them from a bidding war for JS and Brand. Wouldnt be a shock to see an offer of only 9 or 10 mill to these guys . Brand would be crazy to opt out his 16 mill paycheck coming off a major injury. As for the Hawks the need for a 5 is huge. So much more than for a shooter or wing. JS and JC coming back with decent deals and the addition of a premium Big(but Who???) would be all the Hawks need. There might be some BIG trades this summer, but the Big spending is said to be saved for summer 2010.

By Astro Joe

June 30, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

mike is back, if we re-sign both Joshes to whatever the market place values him and do so regardless of that price, then I think you should plan to welcome back names like Lo Wright, John Edwards, Este Batista and Mike Wilks.

Sautee, we’ll have to agree to disagree regarding Marvin. And trust me, I’m no huge fan. I think his biggest issue is his willingness to defer, which was an admirable trait as a freshmen on a talented championship team. He deferred to JJ and Smith on most offensive sets. Then with the arrival of Bibby, he became the team’s 4th option. He averaged 16 PPG before Bibby, about 12.5 after Bibby. The reality is, we won’t have 4 16+ PPG scorers on this team and Marvin is willing to wait for his open shot to score. No, that clearly is not meeting once every 10 years kind of standards, but I won’t fault him for not chucking up shots in an attempt to justify his draft hype.

Pre All-Star Game stats: 16 points 6 boards 46% FG% and 82% FT%. That’s not productive?

By SSI Fan

June 30, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Shooting 71% from the free throw line is not a demonstration of basketball ability. It is a demonstration of a lack of shooting ability. 3.4 assists a game and 3.02 turnovers a game is not star quality. You in fact make my point when you say he is a small forward playing the power forward position. He’s not big enough to be a star power forward and he doesn’t shoot well enough to be a star small forward. Would you give that type player $11 or $12 million a year for 6 years?

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 30, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

“He is a great athlete, but other than blocking shots and making impressive slam dunks tell me basketball skills he has.”

I’m tired of saying the same thing over and over, but if we had a good coach who would give him a defined role, his turnovers and shot selection would improve and you would see his passing ability and rebounding ability on display even more than it is now. He is a very good passer and rebounder for someone his size at his position. I guess I’m pretty much repeating what Sautee and SalimFan already said, but damn, if you can’t appreciate Josh’s basketball skills, you are actively trying to avoid them.

By Matt

June 30, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Sautee,

I think Smoove is worth $11M/year, but you can’t just gloss over the bad when mentioning the good. He’s a phenomenal athlete, but he shoots 25% from 3-point land (and has a penchant for launching contested 3s with 20 seconds left on the shot clock) and was in the top 10 in the NBA in turnovers.

And those are just the statistical shortcomings. That doesn’t even reach the fact that Smoove still has a very limited and predictable game with his back to the basket (he’s basically got a little 5-foot hook shot, and that’s it). Or the fact that he sometimes thinks he’s a point guard and pushes the ball up the floor himself rather than passing it to a guard - which results in many of those turnovers mentioned above. Or the fact that great as he is as a help defender, he is still a fundamentally poor on-ball defender who sometimes thinks his athleticism can make up for poor positioning - which predictably leads to him getting burned or backed down by quicker or stronger defenders.

It’s quite possible that many of these things could be fixed if we had a better coach, but truly great players overcome such problems even without good coaching. They don’t need a coach to tell them to pass the ball to a guard rather than trying to go coast-to-coast or launching a 25-foot three.

Josh Smith is a very good player and a phenomenal athlete. I honestly would like us to re-sign him, because he will soon be good enough to be the 2nd or 3rd option on a contending team. But he still has many weaknesses that are holding him back from reaching his true potential.

That’s not hate. It’s just taking the good with the bad.

By Matt

June 30, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Also, as SSI said, 71% is not exactly a free throw percentage to be proud of in the NBA. Josh Smith’s FT% would place him worse than the team average on 29 of the league’s 30 teams.

(Ironically enough, Philly is the only team that had a worse FT% than Josh Smith)

By Sautee

June 30, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Matt

When did I attempt to gloss over anything bad in Josh’s game?

Matt, do you remember our discussion about whether the energy and enthusiasm he brings as intangibles being worth something? And the shots he intimidates folks into missing that never show up on a stat sheet(see Rondo in games 3 & 4).

At that time I FULLY acknowledged his negatives, but we agreed in the end that he added more than he subtracted. I haven’t changed my mind about that.

And by the way, I was NOT applauding his FT%, but his attempts which showed his “basketball skill” to SSI fan. Of course he took it wrong, but that’s what you get in a blog. (No offense intended SSI)

I never said that he was “star quality”, but Matt even you said he is a “very good player” who you’d like to see re-sign. That’s a far cry from the claims of SSI fan that he is only a shot blocker and dunker and otherwise lacks skills.

By tyger

June 30, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Show me the Money

Hawks are going to match all offers for JSmoove and Childress? Yeah right.

Hawks are over the cap. The Joshes are going to cost $18-$20M combined. A net increase of $14M and flirting with luxury tax territory.

Are the ASG going to pay luxury taxes??? NOT for JSmoove, JChildress or anyone else named Josh or NOT!

More likely scenario, re-sign Jsmoove and move Childress in a package for future picks and two reserve bench players. aka LO Wright, Ty Lue.

By Sautee

June 30, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe

Your words about Josh:

“Because this guy is still an enigma. Bad first month, very good 2-3 months followed by average at best play in the last 20-25 games of the season.”

All true. But how is that inconsistency and yet Marvin’s numbers also go DOWN after the All-Star break. How can you say he’s the consistent one?

Seem like BOTH of our starting forwards could have done better late in the year. Judge them on the same merits.

And then I’ll agree to disagree

And my comment about Marvin’s production was tied to his size and talent level. Not bad production, just less than we hoped for.

By Astro Joe

June 30, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Sautee, I guess I define a roller-coaster type performance as inconsistent. Up one month, down the next. And then back up… with no particular catalyst for the change. I think Marvin was more like one steady line that fell with Bibby’s arrival. I can at least see some cause and effect with Marvin’s post All-Star performance.

By Sautee

June 30, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

AJ

Fair enough

By Mike is back

June 30, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

MannyT and Astro Joe the only point I’m making is…if both Joshes end up with another team because they got better offers , there wouldn’t be nothing wrong with that…and if we were in that same position…we would all do the same thing.

MannyT, I seen that poultry list, I was hoping Sekou had some other names that may have surface.

Actually MannyT, I agree with your earlier post…as well as another blogger that stated it was good business for BASG to wait to sign both Joshes…they can save what may maybe 8 or 9 mil alone just on JS contract. That’s smart business…So please understand that I’m not saying the Hawks should throw caution to the wind just to resign both Joshes…but on the flip side lets be real…both Joshes may never be in a better bargaining position then they are now. Once the other teams start making offers…I’m sure the BASG will due their due diligence to determine the threshold for their bargaining position. Then we have some kind of idea of what of which direction things will. I know if Philly or any other teams comes in with a ridiculous offer for Smoove…he gone!!!!!!

Despite Smoove detractors, I still say his upside out weight his downside…especially at 22 yr old.

By jc_dawg

June 30, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

bottom line to all this for the Hawks…

Pay more money….or get worse.

By jcarson

June 30, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

How about trading J. Smith to Charlotte for Okafor? They are both restricted FA’s. I could see Michael Jordan falling in love with Smith.

By The Dark Karma

June 30, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

DOC, consider that mine is merely a different voice from the same mouth of one you know. It is indeed true that my presented thoughts contain no new information or opinion. I am after all, repeating myself. A different voice my friend, but the same mouth. Devoid of humor. Surely you are not still fooled?

By KevinM

June 30, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

2 things that will take place this offseason:

1) Both Joshes will get substantial raises. Look for Smith to get a salary created by the league’s interest to begin at $11M for at least 5 years. That puts him 3rd on the pecking order for roster salary. Now, we have an issue with Chills and determining what he is worth in the league. He finished out of the top 5 in 6th man voting, (I didn’t see the total list). What I did notice was that the top 5 are considered shooting threats for their teams. (Ginobili, Barbosa, Jason Terry, Korver, & Ben Gordon). Their salaries average out to just over $7M, which is probably what Chills is going to be asking for on the open market. Now looking at a Bobby Simmons who makes $9M, someone could overpay for Chills to pry him away, but I think he takes the hometown discount to play with this group again. In the end, he will be the 4th highest paid on this team until Marvin gets his turn. Not sure how many years the Hawks would offer, but you have to think 3-4 years. Now putting those 2 salaries with the returnees puts us at $61-62M, which puts them above next year’s cap (will it exceed $58M?), which was $55M last year. I don’t know if the ASG is going to exceed the cap any more than that. The numbers don’t look good for any newcomers to come in here. 2) Don’t expect any splashes to come from free agency. Sund’s main objectives are to sign the Joshes. Should 1 of them go elsewhere (I will believe it when I see it), then the ASG might try to sway a 2nd or 3rd tier FA to come in here to get bench minutes.

Not too much to report on because of the way the ASG handled the Joshes’ contract situations. I think they will be tapped out after those 2 signings.
FWIW, I’m just not convinced the ASG can think out of the box they have put themselves in. No surprises in FA, and no trades that will modify the 1st 8 on our roster. we will have to improve with what we have.

By Astro Joe

June 30, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Abe?

By terrell barron

June 30, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Lets do a sign and trade with Portland for Channing Frye and Martel Webster. Preferably with Chills.

By honest_abe

June 30, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

aj: that was freaky. just scanning opinions like i do from time to time and at the bottom i see my name.. heh! very strange.

sorry fellas but i lost all hope when they signed some figurehead as a gm and resigned woody. i just don’t see how the hawks are going to resign josh smith. he’s going to cost too much. watch him blossom under a real coach and a real pg. yak. it makes me sick to my stomach.

won’t say i’m done forever but at least until the hawks screw up like they always do.

By The Dark Karma

June 30, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

If there be a lesson in the fickleness of fans for Josh Smith to learn before he inks any deal presented by Philadelphia, surely he has already learned it here. Reading this storied commentary alone should be a sufficient lesson. One person has already summed up a prevalent attitude towards him as taking the good with the bad. A very interesting comment, considering the fact that in most cases, the terms good and bad are juxtaposed. This statement would by all rights immediately then assume that not only his production and performance, but also his presence here is seen as a bad thing, with the caveat that there are some good things that make it tolerable.

Supporters have repeatedly acknowledged the young players faults. This is just not enough for some. What is consistently overlooked is his production and performance despite these faults. What is also overlooked is the team itself. How poorly constructed is a roster? How pathetically coached is a team? It should be obvious when a player twenty-two years of age with so many acclaimed flaws is the second leading scorer of points, second leading rebounder, first in steals, third in assists, and first in blocks. Indeed, his field goal percentage is fourth on the team, ahead of the team’s best player. His fouls are near the top, but coupled with his defensive statistics, should indicate that he is a consistently aggressive defender, unlike many of his teammates. His turnovers lead the team. That coupled with his offensive statistics would once again suggest aggressiveness. Simple mathematics alone would suggest that the minuses do not even remotely exceed the plusses.

But it is not simple mathematics that we discuss here. Nor is it whether Smith is an inherently good or bad player. Nor whether he will ever be a star, be it in the eyes of the fans, league, or in general.

The focus is once again inaccurately placed on a player as a problem, source of a problem, or related problem. The problem continues to lie in the organization the player is in. The organization in which the player is supposed to grow and mature.

In addition, this is not about how good or great Smith is or will be. This is about the tenor of his exceedingly possible move. The man is openly scoffed at for engaging in tutelage under known basketball greats. He is roundly criticized for not knowing his role on a team that lacks a mission, purpose, and identity altogether. It is beyond imagination how this concept is not understood.

Should Smith venture elsewhere, he will certainly find criticism as no stranger. The sting of vitriol will be an old acquaintance. Philadelphia and other places have nothing new to offer. Except more money and fair compensation for his newly determined market value. Which is apparently more than he can expect here.

By t-man

June 30, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

Pay market value for the joshes, trade bibby to lower cap problem.

By The Dark Karma

June 30, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

It has always been a solid idea that if the team can be improved by the trade of Smith, that it should be done. Likewise, if retaining him prevents the growth and improvement of the team, then he should not be retained. This should ring true to any fan of the team, as it is about the welfare of the team and not any one particular player that is important. And, this could be said of any player on the team. Untouchability is a concept based upon a clear, solid, and reliable building plan. Such a plan is, of course, not something we have found at this juncture, with reliability, solidarity, and clarity all being either absent or muddled.

By Ramon

June 30, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

To be fair, EVERY starter’s stats went down after all star break. True enough they won enough to get in, but no starter was ‘lighting it up’. Thats not a reflection of Smoove inconsistency, thats more of a result from Woody’s poor management in minutes for players. What playoff team that made the 2nd round starters averaged more minutes per game than the Hawks (and thats INCLUDING when AJ and Lue was here sharing PG)?

Smoove problem’s are easier to fix than his assets are to replace, thats why you keep him. As I always say, from a business side, let the team run, and watch Smoove FILL SEATS. In the NBA, that is a huge advantage alone. The play of Horford and Smoove was what ignited the crowds during the run. Sure JJ played great, but he’s not an emotional leader who gets the crowd involved.

I think you do whatever you have to do to keep Smoove in Atlanta. And honestly, if I was the Hawks I would want his deal to be front end loaded, just so his contract and JJ’s doesn’t conflict with Horford’s negotiations.

Its a proven fact that no one will win consistently in the NBA with out 3-4 players making over 8.5 million on your team. Why should Marvin be one of those guys instead of Smoove if he is normally the guy who’s lost on defense?

By cj

June 30, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Jesus is good to me I Love Jesus do you ? Just trade the Joshs boys

By Ken Strickland

June 30, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

CLYDE-I feel you my man. However, you can’t compare the accomplishments of this past season with the past 7-8yrs. This yr, we accomplished something beyond just finishing the regular season. As long as we have the SAASG as our owners, with their financial and managerial limitations, along with MWoodson as our HC, we are left with HOPING FOR THE BEST.

By igotxx3

June 30, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

t-man me and you should run the hawks front office. thats what i been saying. they will trade bibby during the season so go ahead and trade him now to get both joshes re-sign and to sure up some bench players…I also like ben gordon, i would sign and trade josh childress for gordon and trade bibby away for some valuable players. if louis williams is on the market i would pick him up im sure he want ask for to much money.

By Astro Joe

June 30, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Dark Karma, surely you are not suggesting that the media and fan swirl in Atlanta is comparable to Philadelphia? If the fickle nature of fandom is a lady, then Atlanta is akin to Charlize Theron or Gabrielle Union while Philly is more like Phyllis Diller or Rodman in drag.

Heck, the criticism he receives here is devoid of his contract value, because he makes a relative small amount (in basketball terms). Make him a $12M+ player and even his hometown supporters may view those brain farts differently. Instead of the often heard “at least he tries” we may get a slightly different interpretation as he dribbles down the floor leading a fast break opportunity that ends with an errant alley-oop pass to Zaza.

Abe, misery loves company, stick around man… you were missed.

By jay

June 30, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Did you people not watch the Finals. Defense wins “The Ships”. J-Smoove may have room to improve on his offense and ball handling skills. But doesn’t every NBA player have room to improve somewhere in their game. He brings a lot of energy, hustle, youth & athletic ability to this team. Did I also mention him being a good help defender. Especially since the guards get beat off the dribble so much. He may turn the ball over at times but at least he makes the effort to chase down the “rock” and attempt to block a potential score. How many other current Hawks players would even make an attempt to do that? Where is the commitment to winning here? You have to spend money to make money (fan attendance),make people want to come see the Hawks and not the other team to sell out a game. J-Smoove stays!

By Maxx

June 30, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Anyone that says let go of Josh Smith or Josh childress is insane. People might want to attack Josh Smith’s offensive game (or lack thereof), but his real value is on defense, as when he retires he will retire as the best shotblocking forward in the history of the game. Josh Childress is only getting better, he is a cerebral, deceptively athletic, active 6th man who is a great scorer around the basket, despite being tied with Shawn Marion for having the ugliest shot in NBA history. I used to shoot like that when I was in kindergarten. Anyway getting rid of the ATL born bread and raised Smith would be a terrible move as far as ticket sales, as we all know the fans love him. Anyway keep them both and lets trade Marvin for a bonafide 7 footer. GO HAWKS!

By cp

June 30, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

I know Josh Smith is frustrating at times but he is easily the second best player on this team. Guys on here are acting like he is putting up Pachulia type numbers. This might end up being a situation where you dont know what you got until its gone.

By HHoops

June 30, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Wait a minute igotxx3. I want in on this front office team with you and t-man. We could call our selves igo-t-man & hoops. Trading Bibby to free up cap space to sign both Joshes makes the most since to me also. There are several point guards to be had to help Acie out. Chills is fine @ point also for a few minutes. Trading Marvin is the key to getting a BIG.

Let me know when you and t-man are ready to buy ASG out!

By The Dark Karma

June 30, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

ASTRO JOE, my suggestion is that the criticism he receives now will prepare him for what is to come, should he land in Philadelphia. He has received harsh criticism on this blog alone, to which none can deny. He has also had support. Surely he understands that the criticism level will increase along with the vast increase of pay. It is the way of the NBA and the world in general. The criticisms here have not been so bland as the phrase you suggest “at least he tries”. To say as much is misleading at least.

Turning the coin over, are you then suggesting that he will be the exact same player in a better setting? Does not Philadelphia have a better and more stable organization to begin with? Let us examine the data presented.

Philadelphia has a steady, veteran point guard who is not only capable of pushing the ball, but is also indoctrinated in the system that his coach is running. He has had years, rather than months, in it. The team also has a decent center, with decent size at seven feet. They have been lacking a person who can play a power forward type of role, instead relying on a smaller small forward. It is somewhat amusing that you would say that both Dalembert and Smith are both help defenders when the concept of team defense itself is about help. This could have not been more clearly illustrated by a Detroit team that featured Rasheed Wallace as a power forward and Ben Wallace as a shorter center, when in fact both were power forwards. You could argue then, that both players were help defenders. Is this something to scoff at? I think not. It was successful, which cannot be denied. Simply put, if one cannot have a stand alone one on one defender, then a helping defense is the best solution. It has worked before, and will continue to work if properly coached.

Also consider that Philadelphia has a decent coach that has gotten more out of a younger group of players than Smith’s current coach has gotten out of his team, for various reasons. The bench players, though every bit as young and inexperienced as our own, are more confident, involved, and productive than our own. Consider that this allows a coach to sit an errant player and counsel him while not suffering a severe drop off in production. Smith has never experienced this here due to the fact that his presence has been sorely needed on the floor for the majority of each game. In fact, foul trouble has been his only reason for making it to the bench, for the most part. This once again points back to both bad coaching and bad roster set up. It would be very interesting to hear a different point of view that made sense.

Finally, on a better team Smith has the opportunity to find a role and fill it. If he does not, then his detractors can happily congratulate themselves on reading him correctly. At the age of twenty-two, I would not be uncorking champagne on the judgement of a player who has not yet been given the benefit of a system that is at least average in efficiency, let alone optimal.

By seriously

June 30, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Is Matt Marvins brother? I have never seen one person on here defend Marvin as much as you. You always bring up Josh Smith’s negatives yet he is still a better player than Marvin. People keep waiting for Marvin to be the player he will never be while Josh will continue to improve. Please sign and trade JSmith just so he can go to a team with a real coach and a defined role. He will be making all star teams while people keep “waiting for Marvins potential”. Seeing how he is only this age and that age and all that other crap.

By igotxx3

June 30, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

lol HHoops I agree with you 100 perecent

By mykhalc

June 30, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

Ramon, Smoove problem’s are easier to fix than his assets are to replace, thats why you keep him…sums it up for me!! Well said!!!

By Ian

June 30, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Who are these vet laden playoff teams of which you speak?

By The Dark Karma

June 30, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

It continues to be a morbid irony that Smith is not accorded the same allowances as Marvin Williams. Steady, Williams is called, while Smith is called inconsistent. Cerebral Williams is called, while Smith is labeled as incapable of cognitive powers in general. And then there are those who are radicals on either end of the spectrum. This will certainly never end, as useless and tasteless an argument as it may be. The truth will be proven eventually, and even those who seek to avoid it will continue to do so.

Perhaps it is time to move beyond this and consider whether Smith can ever be what he is capable of being, or rather what positive evaulators think he can be, within his current system. An educated guess based on observation of the situation would suggest that he cannot, for he is not one of the truly special players in the game. A very good player, yes. But only the special ones are good enough to rise above severely flawed systems like this one. Only the great ones are great, regardless of where they are. But then, there is also a difference between being great and being successful, when considering something larger than personal success.

Kevin Garnett discovered this painful fact in Minnesota before reaching that ultimate goal in Boston. Great he was and is, but widely viewed as unsuccessful. Tracy McGrady will probably never reach that plateau in Houston, and thus his greatness is tarnished. But this is a tangent, and I must re-focus.

If Smith cannot be optimized here, then he must go elsewhere. Likewise, if the team cannot improve due to his presence, then he must go elsewhere.

However, many who are quick to go this route or simply detract from his production also seem to be forgetting that there must be some replacement. Who will be there next to Horford? While reveling in the flaws of a player that may not be retained, many have not even thought a step further. What is the best, most reasonable, and feasible way to replace that which might be lost, let alone IMPROVE upon it? Can this be done?

There must be some contingency plan and preparation for what may or may not happen. This we know. But for the sake of idle discussion, what might be the names of those who would be taken in place of the departed, should they be departed. How should the roster be restructured? If one can name off a number of reasons not to retain a player and the flaws of the player mentioned, then surely one can think of ways to improve the team in that player’s absence.

Or is this only about the value of one or two players, and what teams are willing to pay them?

By terrell barron

June 30, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Come to think of it, Smoove and Chills have done more for the Hawks than Woody has. He got an extension, so why should’nt they get one?

By drmaryb

June 30, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Hey Peolple - If I may jump in here and have some fun too:

J-Smoove isn’t going anywhere - anytime - soon! So, let’s all just CHILL-LAX!

J-CHills likewise isn’t going anywhere either!

Now, the real question is, How do we fix this roster! We need what we have always needed - a true #5!
I guess every other team in the NBA also need some true centers - look at phoenix? they give up a boat load of money and the Matrix for what? An old broke down washed up Shaq - it is so painful to watch this relatively young man meandering down the court.

I almost had mistaken SHAQ for MUTUMBO! SHAQ looks really old and slow to be that young! The fact that MUTUMBO still is playing significant minutes on a gifted Houston Rocket team - just about says it all!

I see that foreign kid the Hawks owns the rights to - has resigned with his team for about $32 million (I think?) So, we once again gave the leverage needed for our pick to stay put - OVERSEAS!

We need some beef in the middle, No more draft picks Puh-Lease! We need a Kurt Thomas, a Jason Collier, or a monster who can play down on them’ blocks and get a shot off and help josh defend that thur’ paint!

ZAZA is too finesse, too damned pretty to play nasty and dirty. We need a Barkley, or an Oakley or a Worm (ala Rodman) or a PJ Brown or a Big-Butt Mahorn type of player who can rebound and defend down there in that paint!

The hawks need an enforcer, somebody that’s gonna make them high flyers think 2-3 times before trying to take it to the hole! I don’t even think SHAQ can do this anymore (of course he never played tenacious defense anyways! Sorry SHAQ - But I will take KAREEM ten days per week over your over-rated game!) I’m just sayin!

By fo shizzle

June 30, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Everybody wants to get a dollar out of 15 cents. Unfortunately, Claxtons career could be over and Marvin doesn’t excite many people. He’s a poor man’s Robert Horry.

I actually believe a healthy Bibby will help us and seriously hope we resign both Joshes, but feel that Chill is more of a winner.

I love Smoove, but agree that he’s all flashy highlights, but lacks several functional skills necessary for us to break ourselves to get him.

If we signed and traded him to Golden State, along with Marvin and Salim, and got Biedrins and Pietrius, then Al Horford moves to Power Forward and we move into the 2nd round of the playoffs.

By MannyT

June 30, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

A scan across the hoops side of the blogosphere shows that most of the top restricted free agents were offered a deal around $50 mil/5 yrs last summer. Josh Smith, Imeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, Andre Igoudala all said no. There is definitely not enough cap space to put all of them into better deals with other teams.

So yes, their teams can play the waiting game. Most will get away with it.

I found this Barkely commentary about Josh & the Sixers. He does make a good point, but the Sixers can spend their cap space as they see fit.

We should be under the cap until we actually sign a free agent. It should be enough space to get a 6 Million/yr player if we choose to do so. Chills new contract probably bumps the payroll up another 1-3 million beyond his current cap charge. It is the Josh Smith contract that may move the payroll needle 7-10 million. That’s why you have to look at the options for him more than Chills.

I hope the Sund team is charging phone batteries right now. You at least want to be in a conversation or two early. The time to sit on the sidelines is almost over if you want to head toward good CRAP.

By terrell barron

June 30, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

Mutumbo? Signifigant minutes? When? Where was he when Yao was healthy? Everytime I saw him he was riding the pine. He avg about 15 min with 3 pts 5rbs and 1 blk. Shaq avg 28 min 14 pts 7 rbs. And you say Deke played signifigant min? wtf! Hell, Zaza avg 15 min with 5 pts and 4 rbs. He was just as productive as Dikembe. PLEASE!

By doc

June 30, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

10 year career guy in jamieson signs for 12.5 mil in the twilight or probable downside of his career that began at 22 years of age. would anyone like to suggest if this doesnt begin to set some kind of value for josh smith as he enters the upside of his career with offensive numbers in the same category and rebounds as well but much better block and steal stats only being 22 the same age as antwan starting his career. so if antwan is worth 12.5 a year why wont someone work to free up at least that much or more for a guy at the beginning of his career with room to grow?

it will be more than 11 mil guys and i still think it will be in the territory of 14 mil for 5 to 6 years in the end as he will be a bargain at that price at the age of 27 or 28 with at least one more contract to sign. even if he signs for say 12 mil that is 72 mil for 6 years and a lot more than folks feel the BASG have to spend. remember folks were choking at more than 65 mil target suggested earlier. forgidabout it.

creepy thought just came to me. was sund involved in letting his free agent go to orlando last year in any way? is this a harbinger of things to come as i think smash is worth more than what orlando gave and got in their free agent last summer to place with their big guy?

By Ramon

June 30, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Manny, owners across the league have proven that winning pays for the luxury taxes. I haven’t heard anything about Dallas, LA, Sacramento, Phoenix, Denver, or even Knicks LOSING money from the overall picture despite the luxury tax.

By MannyT

June 30, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

doc Rashard Lewis got $118 mil for 6 yrs. He had been in the league 9 years after coming to the NBA from HS. They should have gotten something for him beyond a 2nd round pick, but maybe they preferred the trade exception. I think that allowed them to get Kurt Thomas w/o sending anything back to Phoenix.

If you use it, a trade exception is a sweet thing to have.

I would not pay any guy almost $20 mil/yr that was not the unquestionable best player on my team and consistent all star level player. But that’s for Otis Smith and the Magic to figure out. They way overpaid.

Antawn Jamison gives you talent and veteran leadership. He decided it was important enough for him to stay for the lower salary. If he left the Wiz, only Memphis, LA Clippers & Philly really had the money to pay him at that level or better.

Clips have Brand…so that wasn’t likely. Going to Philly, would be a lateral move to a team that still needs a shooter and cannot afford to pay him and a shooter. Why go to Memphis at all if you’re 32 and they are rebuilding. The easier road to success is in the eastern conference. (These exact same factors apply to Josh except the Memphis thing…and they have young forward talent.)

I want Smith back, but I’d rather give him an opt out at yr 3 than max him out on salary now.

Paying too much can create PAIN by limiting your future options with other players. Let’s see how it plays out.

By drmaryb

June 30, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Hey terrellB

How’s my man? Hey you are making my point, Mutumbo getting 15 mins at his age is significant on any team!

And, you are right - when Yao Ming went down - the team looked to Mutumbo to jump in there and do some heavy lifting! He was wagging that old long azz finger, throughout the Rockets playoff run! DId they win? Well NO!

But, that’s my other point….for Mutumbo to be getting 15-mins at the #5 spot in the playoffs says one thing to me - There just ain’t no good true centers around.

Man, Mutoumbo is still hustling the NBA for millions of dollars so he can buy some vaccines and flu shots for that HOSPITAL of his he has been building out of his own pockets practically for - what? Some 12 years now! He is truly one of the Good Guys!

Hell, the Hawks could still use him here! We need a big man ——MAN! Smoove & CHills ain’t going nowhere. With no picks and no FA’s - What else is there left to do - except match the market price and sign them - BOTH? If not them, then - Who else do you go out and sign? Duuuh!

Take care of home and add some real veterans to this team…And, I promise you them old - tired - PROUD celtics will not want the HAWKS next year in Round ONE! or any other ROUND for that matter!

By Proud dawg

June 30, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Here we go again… Its the same ole situation… pathetic

By terrell barron

June 30, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Yeah Mary B, I cant see us letting either one of the Joshes go, but anything can happen. If anyone goes it should be Marvin or Bibby. They can be easily replaced. I’d move em both for a decent big, and a shooter.(Pietrus, O’Bryant) or maybe even (Ely, Pargo), but all 4 are unrestricted so I dont know how that would work. We could then sign a veteran pg to go along with Acie.(Duhon, Lindsey Hunter, Arroyo.) Or we could take a chance on a guy like Sean Livingston. He should be fairly cheap, considering the injury. But that could be Craig Claxton all over again, if his knee does’nt hold up. Only difference is it would’nt be for 6 FREAKIN YEARS. I wonder if Livingston would sign a 1 yr deal? But anyway, we’ve got a few options, but I’m not really expecting the BASG to do too much of anything. Why should I?

By chris

June 30, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

ok there is a Speedy Claxton on here and Im wonderin if he is the REAL Speedy Claxton. I like the deal about trading bibby/marvin/ and or speedy. Speedy, we will not trade law in a million year(I hope). I want to get a bigman that can score( horford can defend) and then well have room for the josh’s. i just want Smith back, I hate for chills to leave but he is at least replacable there is NO ONE like JOSH SMITH.

By chris

June 30, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

ok there is a Speedy Claxton on here and Im wonderin if he is the REAL Speedy Claxton. I like the deal about trading bibby/marvin/ and or speedy. Speedy, we will not trade law in a million year(I hope). I want to get a bigman that can score( horford can defend) and then well have room for the josh’s. i just want Smith back, I hate for chills to leave but he is at least replacable there is NO ONE like JOSH SMITH.

By darrell starks

June 30, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

WHAT WE FAIL TO REALIZE THAT JOSH IS NOT A 3 HE IS A POWER FORD SO IF WE PAY THAT KIND OF MONEY TO A PLAYER THATS OUT OF POSION IT COULD BACK FIRE. ITS A TOUGH DECISION TO MAKE. ME IF IM GM I WOULD TRADE JOSH SMITH AND BIBBY TO THE NUGGETS FOR CAMELO HE LUV THIS CITY HE IS HERE ALL THE TIME COMPARE HIM WITH A JOE JOHSON THAT WOULD MY OPION MAKE US AT LEASE THE FOURTH BEST TEAM IN THE EAST BUT IF WE KEEP JOSH SMITH TO PLAY OUT OF POSION AT SMALL FORD WHERE WOULD THAT SEED US AT SEKOU SMITH?

By Astro Joe

June 30, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Dark Karma, many said the same about Lamar Odom…. if he got out of the Clippers organization and played with a real team and a real coach, that he would use his unique offensive talents and balloon into an unstoppable offensive weapon capable of routinely producing triple-doubles. Well, after playing for a guy with 9 rings and for one of the two elite teams in the league, he is still an enigma. There is no guarantee that a change of scenario will result in a break-thru.

Doc, Jamison may be headed down, but coming off a 20/10 year when he almost single-handedly lead his team to a playoff birth (with Caron missing a bunch of games and Arenas virtually missing the entire season), I think Jamison proved his value to that franchise (and then some). Pair that with his leadership skills (forcing the young guys to change their lockers because of a lack of focus) and I think he has a different resume than our youngster.

By terrell barron

June 30, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Baron Davis opts out of his contract. He was to make 17. 6 million this year. How can you opt out of that? WOW!!

By Astro Joe

June 30, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Again, Smith is competing against Baron Davis, Elton Brand, Maggette, Iggy, Deng, Gordon and Arenas. I like our odds.

By James C.Allen

June 30, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Well seeing how they both got taken to the house by the Boston Celtics, Id trade them too..Atlanta has not had a team since Nique…spare us please!

By Dub C

June 30, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Terrell Barron and drmaryb, both of you are exactly right. No way are the Joshes going anywhere, but it will definitely handicap the Hawks from being movers in the FA arena. But I honestly think there are a few FA’s out there that are within reach.

To address the need for a big, I like Golden States Patrick OBryant. I think he’s better than he’s been able to display getting 4 minutes a night. I also would at least look at Kwame Brown. I know there are a lot of people here that don’t like this idea, but a change of scenary for him may help him. Regardless of what people say, he has talent. The ASG can’t afford top tier centers.

I also see where the Wizards have locked up Jamison for 4 yr/50 mil. WOW! Josh Smith will probably get 10-11 yr.

By terrell barron

June 30, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

Your’re right Astro, but none of those guys can do what Josh Smith does.

By Eric

June 30, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Childress is honestly a terrible player. He has one of the worst looking games I have ever seen. Please leave.

By BlueEagle

June 30, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Lord, it’s Jon Koncak all over again.

By cp

June 30, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

Brand opted out and that is who Philly was rumored to covet more.

By bigeasy830

June 30, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

I am slow, it has finally hit me. The Hawks cannot afford to sign J-Smoove and then resign Joe in the near future or resign Al. I am not even thinking about Marvin but what if he blossoms into that 20 points per game player next season. J-Smoove is gone. I love his game but we cannot keep him. We must let Al play his natural position of power forward it is imperative. But we will keep J-Chill and to Eric. J-Chill has an ugly shot but he is one of the most versatile 6’8” players in the league. He has great handles and does all the dirty work If he started he may average 15 an 8 easily. So long J-Smoove. I wish you luck.

By Astro Joe

June 30, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

terrell, point is, a team can’t sign Maggette AND Smith (as an example), so they have to make a choice. If that team needs a certain #2 scoring option, they would more likely choose Maggette. Much like a team needing to balance their half-court offense will choose Brand. Teams will choose based on how that player fits their team, not on their Yahoo Fantasy rating.

By terrell barron

June 30, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

CP, Brand opted out but plans on re-signing with Clippers. And Eric, Do you even know who Josh Childress is? Moron!

By danga

June 30, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

why not just trade bibby for camby and josh smith for ron artest. we can pick up a free agent pointgaurd to back up law. trade marvin for a real three point shooter and pick up a free agent with size and toughness who goes after rebounds as if his life depended on them.

By chris

June 30, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Big easy is right unfortunately. I want Josh Smith BADDDD, but i want to keep j.j. and Al later even more. And if Al moves to PF who are we gonna get to play C. Zaza…I sure hope not. so were up the creek without a paddle no matter wut happens.

By chris

June 30, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Big easy is right unfortunately. I want Josh Smith BADDDD, but i want to keep j.j. and Al later even more. And if Al moves to PF who are we gonna get to play C. Zaza…I sure hope not. so were up the creek without a paddle no matter wut happens.

By incredible

June 30, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

” Astro Joe” You claim that JS needs to check on Philly’s fans. They can’t be worse than you. JS is the NUMBER ONE FREE AGENT THIS YEAR. I guess the rest of the NBA doesn’ agree with you and Matt’s expert opinion. I hope you are happy next year when he is gone and the Hawks are getting demolished in the paint. Funny, all of you basketball blog pundits don’t care that Dumars and Stefanski don’t know as much as you. INCREDIBLE

By The Dark Karma

June 30, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

ASTRO JOE, Likewise there is no guarantee that a change of scenario will not result in a break through. Either flip of the coin is merely a possibility, only realized when and if it actually takes place. We shall see whether he stays and what he does in whatever uniform he is donning come the beginning of the season. Furthermore, the argument is continuous if you choose it to be. One may use Lamar Odom or another name, with different situations and several factors that are both similar and disimilar to those of Smith, none of which can be used to prove either point. In the end, if Smith does not go to another team, we shall not know what he might have or might not have been capable of with that team. If he stays here, we will eventually know what he may or may not be capable of here. The next point of contention would no doubt be what he could do under the current coach versus under a different coach. Needless to say, this is a moot point while the current coach is at the helm, though it is not believed that this is the coach to help him bring his potential to fruition.

The stakes are now more clearly set. Jamison has signed with his current team for about twelve and a half million a year, although the yearly pay is liable to be front or rear heavy, rather than a straight average yearly salary.

One could certainly argue in several directions what this means for Smith. Comparing his value and production to Jamison is a bit too simplistic. While Jamison is clearly the more offensively adept and experienced player, he is also a veteran of several years on a team with a system and a role. He is also thirty-two years old. I would venture a guess that his stability would attract Philadelphia’s attentions more than would Smith, being such a known quantity, rather than the popularly termed enigma.

But what does a team in need of a shooter and a power forward do in a time of need? Stefanski has made it known that he needs both, but certainly appears to be more concerned about the forward. And for good reason. Shooters need only be shooters, and they are not in short supply, as shooter types are often not capable of much more than their namesake. Scorers, on the other hand are at a premium, as they do not need screens or open looks to get their points, but use a variety of methods to produce.

Stefanski has said verbatim that he needs a forward who is defensive-minded. That would be Smith, if anybody. He could very well pursue Smith for his talent, youth, ability to score, etc. He would not do this if he did not believe that Cheeks could get what is needed out of him. Notice that he also says that he wants a team of very good players, not requiring a star. Very good players command a price as well, and we will see soon what that price is.

Who knows. Perhaps those that don’t want to pay Smith more than nine, ten, or even eleven million per year will get their wish. It is entirely possible.

By chris

June 30, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

i was wonderin sekou, i think i saw louis williams was a restricted FA. is there any possibility the hawks try to get this home town man to back up or start for Law. Hes a phenomanal athlete and he would add spark, in case smith leaves.

By The Dark Karma

June 30, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

This is what comes of not properly balancing the roster in the first place. Choices have to be made. Smith may not be signed due to his contract being a stumbling block for future considerations. Letting him go for less value is a step back, regardless of how much a person wants to deny his impact on the game.

It is possible that the situation has come to a head, forcing a step or two back so that steps can be taken forward. However, in light of this organization’s historical progress, one wonders if the step forward will ever materialize, and whether or not the step forward will eclipse the distance of the step backward. Evidence suggests that such shall not be the case, and forthcoming half apologetic statements will include comments involving cap space and engaging heavily in some near or far future free agent market, in which this organization can claim to be a player, but likely won’t be from the very beginning.

By darrell starks

June 30, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

IM SORRY I JUST CHANGE MY MIND JOSH SMITH IS AMAZING EVERY BODY YOUTUBE JOSH SMITH AMAZING DUNKS IT IS CRAZY IM SORRY WE HAVE TO KEEP JOSH SMITH AND PLAY AL HORFORD AT CENTER THEY NEED TO STAY TOGETHER I SAY TRADE BIBBY JOSH CHILL AND MARVIN AND NEXT YEAR NUMBER ONE DRAFT PICK TO NUGGETS FOR CAMELO STARTER ACIE, JOE, CAMILO, JOSH SMITH, ALHORFORD, BENCH SALIM , JARVIS HAYES, CHRIS DUHON, SOLLOM JONES, ZAZA. LET DO IT GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

By MannyT

July 1, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this

Now it’s time for the GM to pull out his secret weapon for contacting free agents…Sundialing!

Time to get to work on those free agents.

CRAP is on the clock.

By bob

July 1, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

FREE AGENCY HAS JUST BEGUN!!!

By chris

July 1, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

does neone think that the grizz would be dumb enough to trade ruddy gay for marvin williams? i no this deal will work money wise. but will the grizz make another stupid decision after the pau one?

By Matt

July 1, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this

Gee, Seriously. Could the reason I’m talking about Smoove now rather than Marvin have anything to do with the fact that Smoove is now a free agent and the topic of two articles on here, while Marvin’s name is on the proverbial back burner? Naaaahhhh….

By Matt

July 1, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

Terrell - to answer your general question about The Bearded One, I think he’s looking for long-term security. He probably realizes that he can get more money and more years if he signs a deal now. He could lose $5M/year easily if he turns in a subpar, injury-plagued campaign in 08/09. I might not want to take $17.6M either if it meant that I might end up losing $20M+ over the 4-5 years after that.

By vITO

July 1, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this

I love your info about Josh Smith and how he is being targeted by the Sixers and I also love your inside info on how Josh childress could be targeted by a veteran team over the salary - cap. That’s why I could use to call - in to my show Tuesday at 9:30 pm est. to give insight on the latest of where top free agents are going. If you’re interested, I’kll give you the number for my show on blogtalkradio.com.

By SalimFan

July 1, 2008 3:21 AM | Link to this

The sixers wern’t gonna pull Josh away from us anyway. Who would leave Georgia for Pennsylvania?? It’s alwys raining, cloudy and depressing over there. Besides he’s from Atlanta and we love him here. Also b/c of the Bird rights we can pay him whatever he wants. Stupid philly fans…..keep dreamin’

In other news, TALK ABOUT MIDNIGHT MADNESS!!!!! Arenas gets a new 100mil contract and Jamison gets 50mil. Thats way too much mony for guys that keep getting their lunch money stolen from them every year in the first round against LeBron and the Cavs. two players 150mil in that case JJ deserves 110mil by himself.

Then you have BARON DAVIS and ELTON BRAND opting out of their contracts…….this is getting interesting and were barely out of the starting gates.

By The Dark Karma

July 1, 2008 3:50 AM | Link to this

Ah, so Brand has opted out. He wishes to stay and is a favorite of the owner. He also has made it well known that South Beach is likely the only other destination he would have preferred. With a certain number two draft pick occupying that area, it is not very likely that such a thing would happen.

Maggette is more likely to leave Los Angeles than Brand.

More waiting for an outcome that is shrouded in uncertainty. It will be interesting indeed to see what faces remain when the dust and winds settle. One wonders if it will matter at all with the same head coach plaguing the sidelines. One can only hope that Larry Drew was retained for insurance purposes, as they will definitely be needed. And finally, do Smith and Childress shudder at playing for their coach, or is it a tolerable, if not palatable idea? Childress smacks of a player who is less likely to be affected so heavily. Not so certain of Smith.

By Samuel

July 1, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

Orlando-

Sup guys,

My baby girl just won the Overall 2008 AAU National Championships.

Vault- 9.7 Beam- 9.725 Floor- 9.5 Bars- 9.45

Overall 38.425

Holla!!!!

Relax,

My boy Rick will get it done.

By Sautee

July 1, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Samuel

Congrats on your daughter’s success. That’s BIG time. I know what it’s like to be a proud papa.

P.S. Not trying to be your friend, just bein’ decent.

peace

By Mike

July 1, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

How feasible would it be for us to get a top-notch point a la Baron Davis (who just opted out of his final yr) or Chauncey Billups (I believe he is a free agent this yr) in a sign and trade for say Mike Bibby and J-Chill(b/c if we can only keep 1 of the Josh’s we need to keep Smooth).

By MannyT

July 1, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

Samuel congrats on your daughter’s success.

Sautee You are too funny…in a decent way.

SalimFan Word is there are MAX offers out there for Arenas. Golden State (thanks Baron Davis) and Sacramento are getting into the mix. The Wiz are also have a 9 figure deal out there. Clearly, Arenas understands the benefit of opting out to get more than 12 Mil.

I can’t say I understand Baron Davis’s decision. If it has more to do with things off the court, that’s ok, but it will cost him money. Maybe the Zohan hair commercial messed him up. No one has enough cap room to give him the level of cash he left on the table. He needs a sign & trade to get close to that level again.

Dark Karma I agree with Maggette opting out. The money he left on the table is about a million more the the mid level exception. More teams can work with that exception.

Some folks opt out for good CRAP, others just opt to accelerate PAIN.

By Samuel

July 1, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Sautee,

Thanks. I hope we’re still cool. People that know me know i’m full of sh_t so don’t pay me no nevermind.

By HHoops

July 1, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Samuel,

Congratulations Man! Daddy’s and daughters are special. I know, I’ve got two. I’m glad that you are proud of your daughter. You should be!

What trades do you see the Hawks trying to make?

By MannyT

July 1, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

new blog up

By terrell barron

July 1, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Matt, there’s NO WAY the Warriors will give Davis a long term deal. Did’nt Nelson bench him at the end of the season? And they know how vunerable his knees are. He’ll probably join Elton Brand and the Clippers. They’re stupid enough to sign him for 5 or 6 years.

By Marley B.

July 1, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Yall have to be kidding me if you think Josh Smith isnt gonna get what he wants the owners know and so do we.”Watch” Speaking of J. Chill we need him to somebody is not gonna be happy bet they need to do what is going to make this city happy. Keep Smoove the real defensive player of the year.

By Dante

July 1, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

My oh my, we do have the drama queens here today! No way does either Josh get away from Atlanta without compensation in return. Everyone here loves to bash the owners, but they didn’t get to where they got by letting assets such as Smith and Childress just walk away with nothing in return.

Don’t drink the Sekou koolaid! Things are not near as dire as these sensationist journalist like to portray them to be. Hawks management are in the drivers seat to keep both players here in ATL.

By eric

July 2, 2008 2:30 AM | Link to this

if ever we’re able to resign smith. i still bet we won’t be a contender next season cause we don’t have enough cap space to sign quality players to fill the bench. mind u guys that east teams is getting better every year and we’re at the 8th seed last playoffs. hawks organization need to do something and fast. i still think that we need to get a descent big man in our bench, a banger type like perkins. i was thinking kwame? not sure… >_< we already have a post player in horford anyway. we just need a defensive and rebounding center. i was thinking of okafor and i believe that he fits well with our system and a good combination with horford since i know that there’s no way in hell that we can sign brand or o’neal in our team. i just hope there’s a way that we can sign him. we also need to keep salim and give him enough playing time. he’ll be like the eddie house of the team. no player develops if he’s not given a chance to show his game. we should release claxton already there’s nothing he can do to help the team and he’s earning 6M that sucks. i don’t want the team to have regrets for letting go of good bench players and see them playing with other teams and shine and destroy us. that will really hurt.

Things hawks need to do (i think…)

-resign both joshes (if possible)

-resign salim (he’ll b a good scorer in the bench like house)

-release claxton (use his contract to add quality players in our bench)

-add an explosive, defensive and rebounding center (okafor if possible, no way we can sign brand or o’neal)

-add a banger type big man in our bench (kwame???)

-trade marvin for gay (its good if memphis is stupid enough to accept the deal lol)

By Dorian Faust

July 14, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

This Josh Smith thing sounds like what the old Hawks management would get themselves into. Smith should NEVER leave and Dominique will make sure calm heads prevail. I mean, isn’t that why Billy Knight is gone? Marvin over Chris in the draft? C’mon! Let’s keep this team together, let Marvin become and even better shooter and make sure Joe and Josh know they are the go to guys on this team. Afro power will remain a hawk too. Management needs to keep every team member and make sure this team believes in themselves and we will be looking at a long run through the play-offs this year or next.

By Dorian Faust

July 14, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

This Josh Smith thing sounds like what the old Hawks management would get themselves into. Smith should NEVER leave and Dominique will make sure calm heads prevail. I mean, isn’t that why Billy Knight is gone? Marvin over Chris in the draft? C’mon! Let’s keep this team together, let Marvin become an even better shooter and make sure Joe and Josh know they are the go to guys on this team…with confidence! Afro power will remain a hawk too. Management needs to keep every team member and make sure this team believes in themselves and we will be looking at a long run through the play-offs this year or next.

By Dorian Faust

July 14, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

This Josh Smith thing sounds like what the old Hawks management would get themselves into. Smith should NEVER leave and Dominique will make sure calm heads prevail. I mean, isn’t that why Billy Knight is gone? Marvin over Chris in the draft? C’mon! Let’s keep this team together, let Marvin become an even better shooter and make sure Joe and Josh know they are the go to guys on this team…with confidence! Afro power will remain a hawk too. Management needs to keep every team member and make sure this team believes in themselves and we will be looking at a long run through the play-offs this year or next.

By Dorian Faust

July 14, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the triple-threat blog I just put up there. Leason learned. Edit before hitting the post button! I’m new to this blogging thing but I’m not new to being a hawks die hard. Let Smith go and watch our future chances at a championship die harder. DOMINIQUE FOR PRESIDENT!!!