AJC > Sports > Hawks > Blog > Archives > 2008 > June > 23 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThe games have begun
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
SMYRNA - We’re just days away from the start of the NBA’s annual free agent circus/frenzy and the rumors circulating about Hawks forward Josh Smith have already begun to percolate.
And this is only the beginning. Expect the rumors to increase before they subside, as Smith’s name will be tossed around from LA to New York and all points in between before it’s all over.
Both ESPN.com and SI.com have made mention of the fact that the Hawks have to either be willing to pay Smith a salary starting in the $11 million range or risk losing him to another team (Philadelphia) or others seeking a potential sign-and-trade deal to snatch away one of the Hawks’ major players.
It should be noted that the Hawks have stated repeatedly that their top priority this summer is to take care of contracts for both Smith and Josh Childress, the franchise’s first two draft picks that will have to be taken care of since the Atlanta Spirit group took over and began their painstaking rehabilitation of the franchise.
Talking about doing that and actually doing it are two very different issues.
The worst part of this whole affair is that the Hawks never had to get to this point. They could have cooked up an extension for Smith last October (it would have taken probably $55 million over five years) and avoided the nervous drama that will ensue between now and the deadline for the Hawks to match (or not) a deal thrown at Smith by another team.
The debate will rage on during that time about whether or not Smith is “worth” the money that will be tossed around. I think that’s a useless debate.
You are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for your services. In the NBA, like every other endeavor, the market decides what you’re worth. And the teams in the NBA determine the market (the Hawks could have determined Smith’s worth on their own last October and now they’ll have to react to the market).
Having watched teams pay dearly for evaluation mistakes of their own players (the Suns have spent twice as much money the past three years trying to correct the mistake of allowing Joe Johnson to leave than they would have spent just paying Johnson), I have no reason to believe the trend will suddenly end this summer.
It’s a delicate balance, trying to get a handle on the value of your own players. But if you draft them, develop them properly and foster the growth we’ve seen in both Smith and Childress, why would you allow either of them to go?
The logic there isn’t clear. Balk at price tags all you want but keep in mind that no one wins a championship, or competes for one really, without spending some cash. It just doesn’t happen (check the Celtics’ payroll if you don’t believe it).
Sure, you have to spend wisely. And you have to make tough choices along the way. But you also have to remember that your window for competing in the NBA with a particular group tends to be short. And you can’t afford major mistakes during that window of opportunity, at least not too many major mistakes.
The Hawks are at an extremely crucial stage of their development as a franchise. They’ll have tough decisions to make not only this summer but also every summer going forward (Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia and Joe Johnson will all be eligible for extensions next summer and Al Horford after that and so on and so on).
So the foundation has to be solid. It has to be (and there is no right or wrong decision regarding Smith and Childress because they are restricted free agents and if you have to part with either one of them you have the ability to get something in return, just make dang sure what you get in return works as well as what you gave up).
The bottom line is this; you pay either way. You can do it with your cash or possibly your future. But either way you have to pay.
Services »
Comments
By Melvin
June 23, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
Great article Sekou. You made a great point. In order to be competitive in this league you have to pay. In regards to the Josh’s, we will have to pay them or their replacements. No way around it, unless we are not trying to compete for a championship. I prefer to keep them both and handle the other contracts (Bibby,Marvin,JJ,ZaZa and Horford) when its time to…
By doc
June 23, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
nicely put sekou, especially the point abut how the suns playing hard ball essentially put them out of the running for the title and they had to pay big money for folks not as good to fill jj’s shoes. the other mistake they made was not getting players in return they could use, of course we had nothing to offer, and throwing away the choices they got. no way the draft choice that they spun the wheel on to get in the 15 spot will ever make up for what they lost in the opportunity to have not three but four all stars on one squad. sarver individually is as stupid or egotistic or poor as the collective egos we have running our show thus far to throw away what he had.
if we dont get viable players in return and seek draft picks or cash we know what we can expect going forward as an organization, nothing. that would be the bottom line. how far they veer into going over “cap” is what i am very interested in knowing and will answer the question loudly as to whether fans need to support this team or not. there will always be corporations to foot the bill but not the energy felt and needed that was experienced by me and 20 k other screaming idiots back in april.
for fans the games begin now. as for this fan, i am keeping my cash in my pocket until the dust settles. when it is over i select on what is left or not at all. just a discriminating and discerning fan, that is all.
By Atlanta UNspirit
June 23, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
What did the bird say when he flew over Philips Arena? Cheap! Cheap! Cheap! No way the Hawks pay Josh Smith 11 mil per year. The Atlanta Spirit operate on a penny pinching budget. Let’s examine….They keep a GM as their hockey coach for an entire season…With many veteran coaches available they hire a lifetime minor league coach. Remember Curt Fraser? Didn’t he also come to the Thrashers after success with Chicago in the AHL? They have 2 aspiring GM candidates turn them down and hire someone who was demoted in Seattle. This same person was responsible for hiring Bob Weiss a few years ago to coach the Sonics. They bring back a coach with a lifetime 106-222 record. They offered an extension to Billy Knight because it was the cheapest and easiest thing to do. So what do I have to go on that this organization is actually going to shell out 11 million per year on a long term contract for Josh Smith? Nothing!! We are going to be back to 25-30 wins next year. Mark my words. Boston went from worst to first because they spent money. The Hawks will never do that as long as the Spirit are running the team.
By Reggie
June 23, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Sekou
Based on your interview with Mike Woodson what free agents could you see the hawks targeting this summer? Do you think theres a chance we could find a way to trade for Marcus Camby from the Denver Nuggets. How about signing Michael Finley, since he is a free Agent? I think he would bring a winning attitude to the hawks.
By Crefflo Holler
June 23, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Great article. As one of the rare long time Hawks fans thats been suffering for years Im not surprised at all that were nearing this crossroads. They were able to buld up excitement for the team with the city with the home playoff performance this season. Are they really ready to completely let that go to save some money? If we continue with the “draft well, build up and refuse to pay” well be no different than the Donald Sterling run Clippers.
The East is there for the taking. Spend some money and take this city back to the Omni days we all dearly miss
By newkid
June 23, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Ditto what doc said.
By Ben
June 23, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Great blog, Sekou. Any names you hear being tossed around? Detroit Pistons rumors? Marvin is eligible for an extension now, as is Bibby, but don’t expect the ASg to do anything
By Hawks Fan
June 23, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
you people are absolutely crazy.. the Hawks are definielty going to re-sign Jash Smith and Josh Childress no question.. One the thing that i absolutely hate about this Hawks team, is the fact that they are willing to keep players that dont do ANYTHING… for example: Zaza Pachulia is absolutely horrible, and to be completely honest, Josh Childress isnt too good either.. If I was the Hawks GM i would push as hard as i could to get this starting 5: (Bibby-PG, Joe Johnson SG, Josh Smith- SF, Al Horford- SF, JERMAINE O’NEAL- F/C)
what do yall think?
By Ben
June 23, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
How about Josh Smith straight up for Rasheed Wallace?
By Hawk Jacket
June 23, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
I don’t have much to say about the article since BK is gone there is no telling what will happen. Hawks Fan, you clearly didn’t watch much of last season if you think that Josh Childress doesn’t do anything, or however you want to put it. I’m not ready to say that he was worth the 6th pick in the draft, but he was definately one of the best sixth men in the East last season. He did exactly what was asked of him all season and he deserves some credit. No way would we have been in the playoffs without his services last year.
By khao$
June 23, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
The Hawks have soooooo much to lose if they don’t handle this Josh Smith situation right. For every Hawks’ fan that complains about his turnovers and 3 point shooting, I would submit that the guy is 1) only 22, 2) self motivated to get better (Bilas, training with Hakeem, Calvin Murphy), and 3) probably the most recognizable player on the roster (sure JJ is the best, but Smith has received more pub). This could be an on-court and off court disaster if this team goes the cheap route and/or doesn’t get a name in return. This offseason, we’ll truly see if the Hawks are in the basketball business. ATL fans tend to focus on what this young guy can’t do. Funny thing is, fans in Detroit, Philly, and elsewhere are interested in what he can do. Lets see if the ASG is really in the basketball business.
By SSI Fan
June 23, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
An issue is whether or not the owners can afford to pay Smith’s and Childress’s salaries. Remember the lawsuit pleadings say that the ASG lost $20,000,000.00 in the 2005-2006 seasons. It is reasonable to presume that they lost a similar amount in the 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 seasons. When you then consider the litigation expenses and the fact that either someone has to pay Belkin a HUGE profit for his ownership interest or Belkin gets to buy out the other owners for the amount of their original investment, then spending any additional money becomes problematic. Remember that if Belkin prevails he only has to reimburse the other owners the amount they originally invested. There is no requirement that Belkin reimburse the others for operating losses since the dispute began. If the other owners had sufficient assets to own the team without Belkin then why did they go into business with him with a contract that is so one sided in Belkin’s favor?
It becomes a question of whether the ASG can afford to do anything. If you had lost over $60,000,000.00 in 3 years would you be willing to start losing 40 or 50 million a year?
Who knows how much television revenue the Hawks will be getting in the future. Rumor has it that the TV revenue will be substantially lower next year because of the way the ASG structured the receipt of revenue when they entered the contract.
By crs
June 23, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
How many games did you watch last season to come up with Josh Childress isn’t too good? The guy in my mind is one of the more underrated players in the nba. He plays d, rebounds, can score, is capable at both guard positions, if we had a couple more guys willing to do the dirty work like Josh, this would be a 50 win team. On Smith, only question in my mind is does he become even more difficult and divaish after the big contract. I think you have to take that chance. You have enough scoring on this team, I would like to see us get a couple vets to shore up the inside and the rotation. Definatly want to see Soloman get more minutes too. To me with a lineup of Bibby, Johnson, Smith, Horford and Jones - you would have a long, solid defensive team that could really run. And with Law, Zaza, Marvin coming off the bench you have the makings of a solid bench rotation.
By rfsbkr
June 23, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
Ben….. you are stupid
By Hawk Myopia
June 23, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Sekou: As athletic and exciting as JSmoove has been, it is no secret he and Woodson HATE each other. Not only that, he has not improved the glaring weaknesses in his game. No outside shot, no post moves, little knowledge of the offense. If you could get Rip Hamilton and dump Speedy’s horrific contract on Detroit in a sign and trade, I think that would really help the team. Moving JJ to the 3 gives him some distinct advantages in the East. Rip will definitely open up the floor with his outside shooting and Bibby will have a full training camp to learn the sets and run the team. You re-sign JChill who is a borderline sixth man of the year candidate and I think you can really improve. Not to mention moving Smith means more touches for Al Horford who only will get better. Before you dump on my post, read and find that the Pistons are looking to move Rip and put Stuckey at the 2 full time. Peace!
By ILL-Logical
June 23, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
The best thing for Josh Smith’s growth both as a player and a person is to move on. Detroit with the tradition and pride of the Pistons is a good thought. There is veteran leadership at all levels of the organization that can guide and develop him as both a person and a player. Josh for Tayshaun Prince in a sign and trade makes sense and would make me feel a lot better about the sad state of “professional ” basketball in general and in Atlanta specifically.
By doc
June 23, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
hawk myopia the pistons are trying to move everyone but stuckey. the particular one that is mentioned the most is billips going say to denver with anthony coming to the pistons and stuckey filling billips’shoes. man i wish stuckey had been the guy we got instead of acie but a bit too much vanilla for my taste last year.
By jhan
June 23, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
I think the Hawks will do cartwheels if they only have to pay Josh Smith $11 million per year. Someone will probably offer him closer to $12.5 - $13 million.
If the owners were smart (start laughing here) they would make sure players like Josh Smith (lot’s of potential but not yet proven) wouldn’t be overpaid. If no owners offered these players more than $6-$8 million per year they could inflict some fiscal sense into this mess.
Before I start getting bashed about limiting earning potential for these young guys - just think about having to suffer only getting paid $6-$8 million per year. I think I could get used to those limitations.
By slim
June 23, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Hawk Myopia, dude you have to be sick, rip is not worth a sign and trade for josh smith, for this guy the sky is the limit, at this point he’s a much better player than rip, I don’t need to explain why, actually I would love to see them together, I’d rather see ZaZa or Marvin moved for rip, Josh has proven that he’s going to get better Marvin on the other hand has not, and he was a second pick in the draft.
By Ken Strickland
June 23, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
Signing both Joshes could make it difficult for us to resign some of our core players down the road. The truth is, JSmith can be replaced at PF by Horford. His greatest value could be to help us acquire a BIG, a high draft pick and possibly a vet. Acquiring a BIG this yr could help ease the possible loss of Zaza after the season. Trading Bibby for a PG, like TJ Ford, would help us in 2 ways.
(1) He would improve our OFF, speed wise and penetration wise, as well as our DEF.
(2)Since Bibby’s our highest paid player, the difference in his salary and Ford’s, about 5M+, would make it easier for us to afford resigning JJ without blowing up our budget.
I believe if Woodson continues the stupid practice of punishing, instead of developing, rookies and/or players with limited experience, or players that won’t kiss his anus, ownership won’t stand in Sund’s way if he decided to fire him.
If you read carefully what Woodson said in his interview, he demonstrated a fixation with the Detroit model for success. It was like OFF wasn’t a concern. That explains our limited OFF. I don’t think he even remember’s that Dumars hired Flip Sanders in hopes of improving Detroit’s weak OFF output. Yes, DEF wins championships, but OFF wins gms. Good OFF teams usually win a lot of gms(see Denver, LA, Phoenix, Dallas or Golden State), but they will win no championship without DEF. In basketball, there has to be a balance. If that balance is tilted towards DEF, the teams chances of winning a championship increases. Detroit and San Antonio’s, 2 championship teams, DEF’s are no longer good enough to overcome their weak and/or limited OFF output.
If Philly wants to outbid us for Smoove, fine. We’ll do a sign and trade giving them JSmith(about $12M) and MWilliams($4.46M) for Dalembert($10.2M), Iguogala($2.8M) and their draft pick. That would match salary wise, depending on the value given to the draft pick. That would give us a frontline of SF-Iguodala, PF-Horford, C-Dalembert. Iguodala would give us better shooting range and more versatility. Dalembert would give us a bigger DEF presence in the middle without sacrificing rebounding. Horford at PF would give us better outside shooting and better man DEF. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
By used cars
June 23, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
If we trade Smith, it better be for someone and different than what we have, like Monta Ellis, or maybe Martell Webster and a point guard…Don’t want any of Rasheed or Billups…the better move would be to send Childress off for TJ Ford or a big like Dalembert….
By khao$
June 23, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
In a league where good bigs are hard to find, what big would could be had, with comparable talents and effect on the game, for Josh Smith? Everybody wants a big, who doesn’t?
By Jay
June 23, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
“and the rumors circulating about Hawks forward Josh Smith have already begun to circulate. “
Why dont you tell us some of these supposed rumors???????????
By MannyT
June 23, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
Ken I generally like what you said, but getting value for Smith in a sign & trade is unlikely.
Look at past sign & trades. You get good players by accident. Usually it is a way to get some expiring contracts.
Igoudala is also a RFA. That low salary number is his cap allocation until he gets a new contract. You cannot trade a RFA unless it is a sign & trade based on an offer sheet that we don’t have the cap room to do.
Why would Philly give up Dalambert? We have NO leverage to get him.
Long shot in a complex deal is getting Miller. Woody would play him. He rebounds and he is less expensive than Bibby. But you have to give up something to get him. I doubt they want the players we would trade. Then we would have to move Bibby and you get less value for him when all other teams know you have to move him.
If we lose Josh to Philly, take the trade exception and find another deal to get players.
Ultimately, losing either Josh is probably major PAIN.
By Jt
June 23, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
I think that BK’s unwillingness to lock up both Joshes last fall is as incompetent as some of his draft choices. Smith is an ATL guy wanting to play for his hometown team and getting better every year. They had an opportunity to make him one of the faces of this franchise (along with JJ) and did not do it. I do not understand their thinking. JC is one of the best sixth men in the league and is a vital role player for the future of this Hawks team and now they are at risk of losing both. There were time last fall when I felt that BK was almost sabotaging the team.
By Radio???
June 23, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
What’s the chances that we can get a radio station that we can hear actually hear after dark?????
By Jon
June 23, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Hey Ken there are several problems with that. First, Iguodala is a free agent as well, and he will be looking at a big pay day. Dalembert is way overpaid and has 3 years left on his deal. He is a dbl/dbl guy but that is about it. The best thing if Philly wanted him and ASG doesn’t want to pay him would be to pick up a trade exception, a young prospect like Jason Smith (7 footer that is atheletic and can shoot) and their draft pick this year. Maybe even get them to throw in louis williams in a sign and trade.
By AtlSouthside
June 23, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Sign both Josh’s. Thats a no-brainer. Marvin Williams has improved, but if he can be use in a trade, then do it. And PLEASE release Za-Za. we should stick with core guys from last season, and bring in some “Sam Cassells and PJ Browns”
By Mychelfromatl
June 23, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
I WILL NOT SPEND A DOLLAR ON TICKETS UNTIL THE ATLANTA SPIRIT HANDLES THEIR BUSINESS. SIGN THE JOSHES NOW SO WE CAN ALL HAVE A HAPPY SUMMER AND ANTICIPATE NEXT SEASON!! ATLANTA SPIRIT DON’T DESTROY THE HYPE THIS CITY’S BEEN LONGIN FOR OVER FOOLISHNESS. Now that that’s out the way…this is why its so hard being an Atlanta sports fan, they hype you up only to screw you in the end. People keep your money until they show that they’re dedicated to winning!!!!
By Mychelfromatl
June 23, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
I WILL NOT SPEND A DOLLAR ON TICKETS UNTIL THE ATLANTA SPIRIT HANDLES THEIR BUSINESS. SIGN THE JOSHES NOW SO WE CAN ALL HAVE A HAPPY SUMMER AND ANTICIPATE NEXT SEASON!! ATLANTA SPIRIT DON’T DESTROY THE HYPE THIS CITY’S BEEN LONGIN FOR OVER FOOLISHNESS. Now that that’s out the way…this is why its so hard being an Atlanta sports fan, they hype you up only to screw you in the end. People keep your money until they show that they’re dedicated to winning!!!!
By Mychelfromatl
June 23, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
I WILL NOT SPEND A DOLLAR ON TICKETS UNTIL THE ATLANTA SPIRIT HANDLES THEIR BUSINESS. SIGN THE JOSHES NOW SO WE CAN ALL HAVE A HAPPY SUMMER AND ANTICIPATE NEXT SEASON!! ATLANTA SPIRIT DON’T DESTROY THE HYPE THIS CITY’S BEEN LONGIN FOR OVER FOOLISHNESS. Now that that’s out the way…this is why its so hard being an Atlanta sports fan, they hype you up only to screw you in the end. People keep your money until they show that they’re dedicated to winning!!!!
By Johnny H
June 23, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
If the issue is Josh Smith vs. Mike Woodson, that should be the easiest problem solve of all time? There’s plenty of good coaches out there, not as many 22 year old who could possibly be averaging 22-10-4-4-2 in a given year. That’s not a bad deal for 11-13 million dollars especially when you look at the list of guys who make 15+ a year.
As for Childress, I think he is a prototypical good 6th man. Very athletic and can get to the rim (top 5 FG% in NBA last year) and can also pick up some boards. People make a big fuss over his draft position, but the only very good player that came after him was Iguodala. Deng (who I personally originally wanted) was very unimpressive last year and the others are Rafael Araujo, Luke Jackson, Andres Bidrienis, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfait, and Kris Humphries. Could have gotten Al Jefferson, but he was a High Schooler who wasn’t ever projected to go top 10. And we got Josh Smith 2 picks later, so that worked out fine.
My only hope for the offseason is to get a big center, doesn’t have to be that talented, that can allow us to kick Horford to 4 and not kill him all year. Look what Kendrick Perkins was able to do for the Celtics with out having to be that good. Possibilities (havent really looked at salary numbers to see the legitimacy of any of these, but they are free agents): Okafor (R), Theo (bench depth), Mutumbo (same), Elton Brand, Kwame (a stretch), Chris Richard (to team back up with Horford), Diop.
By Mychelfromatl
June 23, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
I WILL NOT SPEND A DOLLAR ON TICKETS UNTIL THE ATLANTA SPIRIT HANDLES THEIR BUSINESS. SIGN THE JOSHES NOW SO WE CAN ALL HAVE A HAPPY SUMMER AND ANTICIPATE NEXT SEASON!! ATLANTA SPIRIT DON’T DESTROY THE HYPE THIS CITY’S BEEN LONGIN FOR OVER FOOLISHNESS. Now that that’s out the way…this is why its so hard being an Atlanta sports fan, they hype you up only to screw you in the end. People keep your money until they show that they’re dedicated to winning!!!!
By RAD
June 23, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
There is no way in the world to figure out what this ASG will do or how they are thinking. So far, all indications are that every decision that they make is based on when they decide to sell-out down the road. It’s all about money with that group. Case and point … Bring back Mike Woodson as the coach. They got their “cheap” coach back. Now here we are up in arms about Josh Smith. There is a reason that so many “healthy” NBA Franchises are smiling about the opportunity to somehow pry Josh Smith away from the Hawks. Are they seeing something in Josh Smith that the Hawks are not seeing? The Hawks rolled the dice last fall in not signing Josh. Now they are going to have to pay for it one way or another. Only the ASG could mess this thing up.
By Neal
June 23, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Take a good look at Boston. If the hawks 1) attempt a sign and trade for Emeka(and offer Marvin, Zaza and any other bench players necessary besides Childress) they would be mortgaging the future but they would have one of the best front courts in the east and one of the better backcourts. The bench depth would need to be replenished but this can be done via draft and free agency. they would be physical enough to match up with boston and be legitimate contenders and would still be a running team.
If they had a staring 5 of
Emeka Horford J Smith Joe Bibby
and Childress and Acie Law coming off the bench.
They immediately become equal or better than Orlando, Washington, Philly,Toronto and closer to Cleveland, Boston, Detroit
By Neal
June 23, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Take a good look at Boston. If the hawks 1) attempt a sign and trade for Emeka(and offer Marvin, Zaza and any other bench players necessary besides Childress) they would be mortgaging the future but they would have one of the best front courts in the east and one of the better backcourts. The bench depth would need to be replenished but this can be done via draft and free agency. they would be physical enough to match up with boston and be legitimate contenders and would still be a running team.
If they had a staring 5 of
Emeka Horford J Smith Joe Bibby
and Childress and Acie Law coming off the bench.
They immediately become equal or better than Orlando, Washington, Philly,Toronto and closer to Cleveland, Boston, Detroit
By neal
June 23, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Take a good look at Boston. If the hawks 1) attempt a sign and trade for Emeka(and offer Marvin, Zaza and any other bench players necessary besides Childress) they would be mortgaging the future but they would have one of the best front courts in the east and one of the better backcourts. The bench depth would need to be replenished but this can be done via draft and free agency. they would be physical enough to match up with boston and be legitimate contenders and would still be a running team.
If they had a staring 5 of
Emeka Horford J Smith Joe Bibby
and Childress and Acie Law coming off the bench.
They immediately become equal or better than Orlando, Washington, Philly,Toronto and closer to Cleveland, Boston, Detroit
By mred
June 23, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
sign the joshes sign diop and the hawks will be back in the playoffs with abetter record
By Dave H
June 23, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Trade Josh Smith to Detroit for Sheed. He is at the last year of his contract, next year we will have that money to go after some big names!
By Dave H
June 23, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Trade Josh Smith to Detroit for Sheed. He is at the last year of his contract, next year we will have that money to go after some big names!
By Dave H
June 23, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
Trade Josh Smith to Detroit for Sheed. He is at the last year of his contract, next year we will have that money to go after some big names!
By doc
June 23, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
mannyt cant remeber what pain is but yup you are right, pure sign and trade is unlikely to work in our favor.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
Well said AtlantaUNspirit, well said. Cheap, Cheap, Cheap!!
By Nahjay Davnpoop
June 23, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
you’ve got to be kidding me, sekou. you are the worst beat writer in the country. you provide absolutely nothing but speculation, which any of us could provide. you’re only rumors come from what you ripped off espn and si.com.
go back to smyrna and sit in the basement and sleep through the offseason like you did the celtics.
and ajc, fire this man.
By Nahjay Davnpoop
June 23, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
dave, i hope you know the hawks traded sheed to the pistons for j.smith.
By D.Carter
June 23, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
sign and trade with phoenix and 3rd team hawks sign and trade Josh Smith and Mike Bibby for Shaq and Barbosa… phoenix then trades bibby to 3rd team for another player
By igotxx3
June 23, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Everybody is saying trade for players. The players yall want is old or getting old the hawks are a young team you dont want to get older by trading all yo young players. If the hawks dont re-sign the joshes I will not watch another hakws game.release speedy for money. trade marvin williams for rasheed(a provin player) trade bibby for picks and cash.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
Slim, I dare you offer Zaza or Marvin for Rip. Are you kidding me? Dumars is still laughing. hahahahaha
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Hell, He would’nt take Zaza AND Marvin for Rip.
By RJS
June 23, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Billy Knight, quit posting comments as Dave H!
By Nahjay Davnpoop
June 23, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
i think the hawks should trade josh smith, joe johnson, mike bibby, al horford and marvin williams to the celitcs for ray allen, kevin garnett, paul pierce, rajon rondo and kendrick perkins.
By Traceman
June 23, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
J Smoove HAS to be resigned. Coming off the momentum the team built during the Celtics series, the Hawks simply cannot afford to take the chance that Smoove goes elsewhere and blows up. The only way they can let him get away is if the bring another young player here who has already established himself as a terrific player. Carmelo Anthony comes to mind. We can’t let Smoove get away for aging players like Billups, Rasheed Wallace or Jermaine O’Neal. Those guys have already played their best basketball while Smoove’s best basketball is still ahead of him.
By woodsonsucks
June 23, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Unproven- I said it before I will say it again. JS is not unproven. He was listed as an all-star snub last season by various national media outlets. You home-grown experts don’t realize what you have. Those types of numbers for someone who obviously doesn’t get along with his coach or the terrible offense that the coach runs. This kid plays hard every night. Maybe you guys need to go watch the playoffs again. “He was a tougher matchup for Garnett then anyone else including Gasol on both ends of the court.” Guess what all these other teams around the league obviously think he is worth money. They are all trying to get him. How good do you think he would be without Woodson?
By Bk Hawk
June 23, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
You got to love the Birds. Put up or shut up! Get off the money and sign and trade for better players. This city needs a winner and the * Braves* are not the answer.(Cox and 4 or five players are to old to cut the mustered anymore.) The* Falcons are rebuilding. *Thrashers are a joke! Time for HAWKS** to step up and get’re done.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
Ken Philly wants to pair Iggy with Smith. They would’nt make that deal. They might do Dalembert and a draft pick for Smith. They could replace Dalembert with Jason Smith.
By alan
June 23, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
i’m sure the hawks will find a way to mess things up. remember when we drafted marvin, or better when we drafted sheldon. ha
By Nahjay Davnpoop
June 23, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
let j.smooth go. he’s fun to watch, but not fundamentally sound. childress is.
i think it would be easy to be on the winning end of a j.smith trade, because almost everyone has a higher basketball iq than him. raw athleticism won’t win you games in the pros, people.
By Joe
June 23, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Sign and trade for Smith; this is the biggest no-brainer the Hawks have had since firing Billy Knight and Mike Woodson….
what? Mike Woodson is still coaching?
Oh well, those cheapskates obviously do not care about doing what is best for the franchise and will probably give Smith franchise money and we will be a bottom-feeder for the next decade.
By T.C
June 23, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Man pleeeeese!dont nobody want to bring a vet in with that attitude speaking of r. wallace.if the hawks bring vets in, they gotta bring in leaders.yes wallace is a great player but is not a leader.it takes leaders someone smart,mild tempered but can still get in your face and go off if he have too to take this team to another level.the hawks have too many young players to make such a move trading for sheed.i think antonio mc D from detroit and grant hill thats right!yes grant hill would be good.
By Keith Helms
June 23, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
This year will tell the truth about the owners of the Hawk franchise. Either they go for a winning team or they don’t, as they have since the Hawks came to Georgia. They not only have to pay these players to keep them, they need a couple of veterans that will cost around $15 million a year. The point is, the owners have to win this year, 50 wins and the conference finals or they are simply taking advantage of Georgia’s thirst for winning teams. Since they have received tax subsidies to support their team it is time for them to produce or get out, and that means where any Georgia tax payer can’t find them to extract justice.
By Big Dawg
June 23, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Let the new GM do his job. He better get it right or he will be gone.
By repeat
June 23, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
great insight. it’s a tough decision for the Hawks. Resign them both are you a better team? If Josh makes 11 mil and Joe makes 14 mil is there any opportunity to acquire the veterans that Woody mentioned in his interview. I think that they should make every effort to resign both, but don’t close the door on doing a sign and trade if it makes you better and gives you flexibility to improve as well.
By kirknga
June 23, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
I think Sekou left out an important fact which is cap space. It seems that only Philly may have the most cap space from which to offer Smith the kind of money ASG would not pay.
It seems simple to me, the Hawks need a center. They need someone who can rebound, make people think twice about driving down the lane and command a double team in half-court sets. Horford should be at the 4.
If the Hawks can get that from Anderson fine, but if they can’t, they are going to have to trade to get that piece. If Smith is the biggest chip we have so be it. He is not Nique or even a Drew for that matter.
The point is to get better. $11 million for Smith sounds about right to me(it’s too much but not way way too much).
Unless Woodson is suddenly going to develop Jones then we need to get bigger in the paint.
As for mortgaging the future, well I dunno, I really would like to feel what those Boston fans are feeling right now and I would trade who I had to to get there.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
A higher basketball IQ? wtf!! Jordan did’nt have the HIGHEST basketball IQ when he was 22. He evidentually got it. Add that to his RAW ATHLETISISM, and you got youself a STAR.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
A higher basketball IQ? wtf!! Jordan did’nt have the HIGHEST basketball IQ when he was 22. He evidentually got it. Add that to his RAW ATHLETICISM, and you got youself a STAR.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
I meant eventually.
By BN
June 23, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
sign him only if Atlanta wants to make the playoffs….12 to 15 mil is not a big deal in the NBA…proven young talent..keep him here..
By Sekou K. Smith
June 23, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
As much as I love Rasheed Wallace, there is no way I’d trade Josh Smith to Detroit for him just so I could get my hands on his expiring contract.
As the Celtics proved, you can build a veteran crew behind your starters if you make shrewd choices. Find a guy that fits into what you’re trying to do (and dow whatever it takes to get him as opposed to being limited by the structurer of the July free agent setup).
Some guys you might have to wait until the trade deadline to pick up. Others you might have to wait until they are waived later in the season. Whatever. Just have your list plan together and be ready to pounce when opportunity knocks.
The draft is a much bigger gamble, which is one reason the Hawks should thank their lucky stars they’re not working with a first round pick (sure, it’d be nice to have one and not worry about need the cat to come in and play a huge role. But not having one this year is not the worst thing in the world).
The Hawks’ concerns, as I mentioned above, should be focused on their own free agents first. From there, you use what your league scouts know to snag available players for good prices (sort of like Zaza a couple years ago) to fill out what should be a playoff roster.
I know that sounds a bit simple (and it won’t be nearly as easy to do as it sounds), but that’s the fundamental challenge facing Rick Sund and his crew.
By Author
June 23, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Um…so let me go if I got this right. The only way the Hawks could have gotten Smoove last summer is with a contract that paid an average of $11M/year. Now, his market price is probably going to be around $11M/year.
Someone explain to me why, then, it would have made more sense to sign Smoove last summer rather than wait until this summer and see what the market is like?
Besides, Smoove is (at best) the second option on a mediocre team or a third option on a contending team. He’s great as a help defender but weak as an on-ball defender. Why on earth would any team bid against themselves for a player like that?
By J-Mill
June 23, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Dear Rick Sund,
RE-SIGN THE JOSHES, WE ONLY HAVE ONE MORE WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Dashizz357
June 23, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Trade Marvin Williams to Memphis for Mike Miller, Pick up Emeka & cut Speedy & trade Salim & ZAZA for Damien Wilkins. Bibby -pg Joe -2guard, Emeka - center Horford -pf & josh smith (when acting right )- sf or Mike Miller - sf. Playoffs for sure!
By Russell
June 23, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Great comments Ken.
We only need someone to stand in the middle while Horford does his thing. I don’t even care if the Center sucks… Maybe Shaquille O’Neal? :-D
Sign both Joshes, extend Bibby’s contract for him to end his career here and we should get a championship this or next year.
ok I’m kidding about signing shaq… but any old center will do in my opinion.
By Dashizz357
June 23, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Trade Marvin Williams to Memphis for Mike Miller, Pick up Emeka & cut Speedy & trade Salim & ZAZA for Damien Wilkins. Bibby -pg Joe -2guard, Emeka - center Horford -pf & josh smith (when acting right )- sf or Mike Miller - sf. Playoffs for sure!
By Sekou K. Smith
June 23, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Author,
He could only sign for five years if they did the deal last October. Now he can get six. And the price tag this time around might start at $11 per year and go up. Or it could start higher if a team wants to pry him away. Either way, you know it’s going to be more than it would have been last October, even if it’s just the extra year.
The point is, the price would have been locked last October with no wiggle room if he had a fantastic season (which he did). Now there’s no telling where this thing goes.
By jack bender
June 23, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Need to trade Josh Smith for a NBA proven nba all-star. check out my blog runningwithzaza.blogspot.com
By Astro Joe
June 23, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
terrell barron, don’t forget that Smith has played over 300 NBA games and over 10,000 minutes of court time. So do we view him as a 22 year-old or as a 4 year vet with a lot of NBA game time under his belt? We have to view him as a 4-year vet because his contract status says he’s a 4-year vet.
IMHO, Smith will likely be a Lama Odom-type on offense. 2 great games followed by a stinker resulting in sub-optimized talent. 5 years at around $60M would be my ceiling.
By Deputy Dave
June 23, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Are the Hawks game broadcasted on the RADIO?
By igotxx3
June 23, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Russell hawks cant sign both joshes and extend bibbys contract. thats 2 much money plus acie law is our future PG so thats crazy to re-sign bibby. The hawks are goin 2 trade bibby durin the season most likely.
By kirknga
June 23, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
I think people have different goals here. Some want to see the Hawks progress, others are happy and satisfied and want to see players run and jump.
You win with hustle and basketball skill.The Lakers were the younger, more athletic team with the best one-on-one player on the planet.They lost.
You don’t win a championship in the NBA without an inside game(like both the Celtics and the Lakers), and that is the Hawks biggest concern now.
The Lakers didn’t really soilidify until they traded for Gasol. A player many here said had no game.He dominated until the final round. We had a chance to get him, but we missed the boat again.
I wonder if the ASG and some fans are really willing to do what it takes to put a championship team on the floor?
By Jose
June 23, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Radio, you are so right. ASG are sooo cheap cannot afford a stronger Radio station. 790AM (the zone) is not heard after 5:30 pm outside I-285. What happened to the good old 750AM or any FM station? That’s real consistency, poor coaching, poor performance, poor management and hence poor marketing. THE SPIRIT NEEDS REVIVAL EVEN ON RADIO. A stronger signal will do. Is it intentional black out so that we don’t hear the hawks on the road? They are our hawks when in the mud and still our hawks when soaring high. Please let’s hear Bob’s voice. Have an audible day!!!
By doc
June 23, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
sekou, it goes in the same direction as a helium filled balloon, up. not sure but i think you felt it was a mistake to play the waiting game. do you think j. smith would have signed last year for say a contract in the range of 12 mil a year for 5 or would have said the same thing of, “we will wait it out”?
By Author
June 23, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
I guess we have different definitions of “fantastic season.” I don’t view a guy who is in the top 10 in turnovers, shoots 25% from downtown (but keeps shooting them anyway), and who didn’t shut down anyone on defense when he was playing on-ball to have had a “fantastic season.”
I give him credit for increasing his scoring output, playing good help D, and doing an ok job cleaning the glass (though his stats went down there too). But he is NOT the type of player who we should have been outbidding ourselves to keep. If some other team wants to overpay to get him, why should we follow them off the cliff?
By ToeKnee
June 23, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
This always has been and always will be about money. They should have signed both joshes last year, but decided to wait, stupidly thinking they could get them for cheaper if the hawks had another dissapointing year, and counting on the fact that alot of other teams in the league dont have the money or resources to offer these guys a contract based on what they have done until now. well, they both had good years, josh proved hes a star in the making and a one-0f-a-kind talent, but I think they also planned on using his ATL roots as leverage to keep him around.
Either way, they will definitely keep josh smith, because this has been and always will be about money. A successful basketball team makes more money, and josh smith sells tickets. He will be back in a hawks uniform one way or another, no doubt about it. If they were to let him leave the team it would honestly be one of the dumbest decisions in Atlanta sports history. Not only would it set us back for an endless rebuilding project, it would completely kill the enthusiasm built from last year, squash the hopes of ever creating massive fan loyalty( which is a distinct possibility if they keep this team intact), and cripple season ticket sales, which would lead to less money for the organization, which is the last thing they want. This season is their opportunity to actually MAKE money, and it involves keeping the team together.
The Spirit want to make money, and their best bet to sell season tickets and sell out their home games is to keep josh smith first and foremost, and letting childress go would only lead to having to find a replacement. honestly, just keep them both, keeping team chemistry and creating some loyalty around here will go a long way to more wins and making more money.
It is the smart economic move to re-sign both josh smith and josh childress, and i see no logic whatsoever in letting either of them go, from a basketball or financial standpoint.
To address a few other proposals i have read above: josh smith for rasheed wallace?? are you crazy, WE MADE THAT TRADE ALREADY! just the other way around.
And for anyone considering any kind of trade involved in us getting draft picks, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU??? you want draft picks!!!?? we didnt even need them last year!, but thank god al horford became the best draft pick this franchise has ever made. Draft picks are the absolute LAST thing this team needs.
By Ken Strickland
June 23, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Fellows, thanks for setting me straight on Iguodala. Being a RFA himself would complicate things a bit. We need to rethink this value thing when it comes to JSmith. If trading him brings us a starting center, that can give us a double double, a 1st rd pick and some bench strength, we will have all the value we need. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. JSmith is a better athlete and brings more excitement than Horford. But, Horford is a better basketball player and is more fundamentally sound. He run’s the floor as well as Smoove, is a much better outside shooter, he’s stronger inside and makes far fewer mistake and turnovers. He’s also a better rebounder, especially when you consider he go’s up against centers that are usually taller, bigger or both.
Dalembert would give us blocks, more rebounding, and better overall DEF. Better DEF and rebounding would allow us to run more fastbreaks, which creates more scoring opportunities. The only thing Smoove provides that we would miss would be the excitement he brings. Everything else can be replaced, and then some.
Dalembert is big, tall and experienced enough to play most opposing centers one on one. That would almost eliminate having to double in the middle, like we often had to do to give Horford help. Teams would find it much more difficult getting open, uncontested shots against us, like they did so successfully last yr, if we could stay home defensively.
Trust me, a frontline of (C)Dalembert, (SF)Marvin and (PF)Horford, would be better overall than a frontline of (SF)Marvin, (C)Horford and (PF)Smoove.
By T
June 23, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Crappy article Sekou.
I was expecting to read about actual rumors from other teams. What they are projecting and possibly giving up in one of those sign & trades. Or, some sort of update on the Atlanta Spirit and what their strategy would be…. Got none of that. Sorry, but you could have written this article at the end of the season because there isn’t any new information here.
By JJ'S NUMBER 1 FAN
June 23, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
No question the Hawks will re-sign the both joshes and im looking at a winning season next season!!!!!
before 37-45
after 45-37
By danga
June 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
marvin and zaza for corey magetti and sign and trade jsmoothe for tyrus thomas and ben gordon
By Daddyrich
June 23, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Looking at some comparable salaries in the NBA, I dont think signing Josh Smith to 11-13 mil per season would be such a bad decision. The only players on this list I would rather have would be Boozer and Nash.
33) Kenyon Martin $13,000,000 34) Richard Jefferson $12,200,000 35) Larry Hughes $12,000,084 36) Wally Szczerbiak $12,000,000 37) Gilbert Arenas $11,950,400 38) Raef LaFrentz $11,813,750 39) Peja Stojakovic $11,664,000 40) Carlos Boozer $11,593,816 41) Steve Nash $11,375,000 42) Jason Richardson $11,111,110 43) Kirk Hinrich $11,000,000
By big lew
June 23, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
not to sign lil josh would mean each time he play the hawks we will cry why or what the h…
By Rocco Malone
June 23, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
What is wrong with this city. Do we not want to win. Sign the Joshes. The latest rumor I heard was Detroit. Josh for Prince, Amire Johnson, and their first round pick (joey Dorsey). If the ASG will not pay the money for Smoove their are foolish. It has been really hard to be a Hawks fans. Now we have something to cheer about they take it away from us. ASG please sell the Hawks to me. i know what it takes to be on top. MONEY MONEY MONEY. Spend the money for your draft picks and the future of your franchise.
By demoney2291
June 23, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
First of all the Suns did not refuse to pay joe Johnson . They wanted to max him and kep him but he aint wanna stay on the team . he did not ant them to match the offer sheet unless it was in a sign and trade .So that statement is bull he would rather play for the Hawks than a play off team hmmmmmm says alot about the team player then huh
By tyger
June 23, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
David Andersen signs with Barcelona for 3yrs./$5M per
Yes, we need a draft pick, there are about 10 7fters in this draft and need at least one.
Roy Hibbert is about as big as they get. What he lacks in quickness, he makes up for in size and IQ.
Hawks need a true center. Small ball will only carry you so far. Evident throughout the season and playoffs, we had no low post threat and couldnt defend the paint against other real bigs either.
Horford is overmatched every night and does a yeomans job, but give the kid a break, we need a Center and there’s no better time to get one than now!!
By SSI Fan
June 23, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
If Horford and J. Smith are the starting center and power forward then the Hawks do not have enough size. Horford is undersized to play center and Smith is undersized as a power forward. They both have been quoted in the paper as saying they ar undersized. In his June 8th assessment of Kevin Love SS says that “at 6’9 1/2” there’s no way he would have been able to play center in the NBA.” If Love at 6’9 1/2’ and 255 lbs. is too small to play center then Horford at his listed 6’10” and 245 lbs. is too small to play center in the NBA. Remember that Horford wasn’t the center in college. Horford would be a great power forward if paired with a taller talented center.
If Horford and Smith are the starting forwards there isn’t enough shooting ability. During the playoffs Jamall Mashburn gave an interesting statistic. This is close to what he said. Of all the players in the NBA who took at least 450 two point shots outside the lane only 4 had a worse shooting percentage than Smith from that range. He is a poor shooter. For those of you who would argue that he will be a good shooter with practice I ask you if Shaq ever got to be a good free throw shooter and did Jason Kidd ever get to be a good shooter. If Smith is a poor shooter at 22 then he’ll be a poor shooter at 32.
By Jack Astor
June 23, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Hello Hawks fans, If you believe the ASG is losing money with the Hawks, then you are uninformed. David Stern has made sure that all NBA clubs are in the black before game attendance (or lack of). Why should your “hometown” Spirit Group spend money that they don’t need to spend on players, coaches, or general managers. Why do you think they signed Woody for a couple more years? Could it be for his .300 wining percentage or could it be that he’s the cheapest option around. As long as the ASG owns this franchise, your Hawks will win 25-30 games and always be just two players away from really contending. Personally, I think all these glandular freaks are overpaid. But, when it comes down to it, it’s really just all about the money. Peace. JA
By Marcus
June 23, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
* Resign the Joshes * Then lets package Marvin Williams & Next two 1st round picks for Mello…
PG Bibby & AC SG JJ & Afro Power SF Mello & Afro Power PF J-Smooove & Mello & Soloman J C Al Horford & Za Za & Soloman J
By david
June 23, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
Let the fun begin. If we let Josh S. go, gotta get a whole lotta rebounding in return beings we already need a big. I’m all for losing a player if we get something better in return but with this group I have no confidence.
By bigeasy830
June 23, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
People, lets quit playing. If you want to win right now. resign J-Smoove then trade him for Carmelo. Melo wants out of Denver and J-Smooth is a hot commodity I know we can make this happen. With Melo and Joe on the same team we would have two dynamic scorers. Then a healthy Bibby will be more effective. Now, don’t get me wrong I love J-Smoove, but lets stop playing with this thing. Melo is a proven baller. I know he has the 4th highest salary in the league, but if you throw in Speedy’s contarct that should solidify the deal. 4 of you starters will be Joe, Melo, Bibby and Al. You know a quality big will want to join that group. Especially after the buzz the hawks created after the series with the Celts. Your bench can the be Marvin, J-Chill, AC and Za Za, along with others. Najah you are right we did acquire J-Smoove with the draft pick we got from Detroit in the Sheed trade. That was a descent trade by BK when you look at it. We were going young and he got us a pick and dumped salary. Now Sund, what are you gonna do. Ken Strickland I like your ideas about Dalembert as well. But, what were you thinking about with that Falcon blog the other day, hahaha, That is wishful thinking. Lets go get Melo, the future is now. Its time to make major moves. These guys are no longer that young and contracts within the next 3 season will be expiring which mean we have to do something now. Nothing in life is guaranteed, not even tomorrow.
Holla if you hear me, Say Amen if you feel me.
By RJS
June 23, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
I hear the Blazers will part with Jarrett Jack for a ham sandwich and a ride to the airport.
By Sautee
June 23, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
T
So Sekou’s article is “crappy” because you were hoping for “actual rumors”.
actual: existing and not merely potential or possible.
rumor: Unverified information of uncertain origin
Which do you want?????
Cause you can’t have it both ways.
Apparently you and Jay haven’t figured out that Sekou is a beat writer, who deals in facts, not rumors.
Go to hoopshype or espn if you want rumors.
Good article, Sekou.
Thanks for your factual, well researched, excellent work. Pay no attention to the haters.
By Ramblin'Wreck
June 23, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
Josh Smith needs to go. He’s not worth the 11+ million he’ll get. He’s not a leader, he causes problems with the coach who we just signed long term, and he does a tremendous job of folding under pressure! Why pay him big bucks???? Yeah he’s exciting to watch, but it’s all about winning…and Smith has shown he’d rather dunk over someone and look good than win games.
By Chris D'
June 23, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
There is no direct correlation in the NBA between spending lots of money and winning. The Boston Celtics had the 7th highest payroll, the Pistons and the Spurs compete for championships every year while managing their payrolls and being in the middle of the pack on spending. There was an article on espn.com showing the reverse correlation in the NBA of winning percentages and higher payrolls.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm
The Hawks should have money to spend this summer signing their free agents since they won’t be adding a 1st round draft pick on their books and next summer they should have Bibby and Speedy coming off the books ($16 Million).
The Hawks last sign and trade worked out pretty well. If Acie Law works his way into the starting rotation next year that deal looks really good (Al Harrington trade). I don’t see the harm in a sign and trade if a great deal comes along. I would miss Smith a lot but I wouldn’t lose sleep over a sign and trade for Childress.
By Chris D'
June 23, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
Wow check out this well thought out rumor. Wow a team might be interested in Josh Smith if he can’t work out a contract.
*Keep an eye on the negotiations between the Hawks and forward Josh Smith. Smith is a restricted free agent reportedly seeking a deal that starts in excess of $11 million. Hawks new general manager Rick Sund might not be willing to start a deal at that price. If an impasse occurs, you can bet the Pistons will come asking about a possible sign-and-trade deal.”
I guess Sekou’s next article could list about 10 teams in the NBA and say they might come to the Hawks asking about a sign-and-trade deal this summer.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Have you guys checked out the video where Shaq disses Kobe? It’s on TMZ.com. HILARIOUS!
By cp
June 23, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
A few of us said last summer it was best to extend Josh Smith last year because it would have been cheaper. I think the talk to Philly has been around for the last two years. Like someone said earlier, its time to put up or shut up for the B.A.S.G. I really cant think of a good sign and trade for Josh. I would rather keep him. I see some want Melo. If we gave up Josh for Melo our defense would be worse than it was after we aquired Bibby. With Bibby and Melo starting we would easily be one of the worse defensive teams in the league. Melo scores and thats about it.
I read how Mike Knapp wants more vets but if we sign both Joshes how will be able to afford any vets. I dont know much about the cap so maybe someone can fill me in. If im correct and we sign both Joshes we wont really have much money to offer any other free agents. Most veterans want to go to a team that has a chance to win a ring. We are an up and coming team but most vets would prefer an established team that has a chance to win it all. What are we going to do to fill out our bench?
By nique
June 23, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
Yeah this article didn’t shed too much light on what’s going on behind the scenes.
By SalimFan
June 23, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
Bottom line: The team that cough’s up the most money OBVIOUSLY appreciates the Joshs’ abilities the most, regardless of cap…….so the real question. Do the hawks appreciate their 17ppg 2.8BPG Slam Dunk champion more than the rest of the leauge does??? How about the sixth man leading the Eastern Confrence with 12ppg???
Only time will tell.
By HAWKS08
June 23, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
The Hawks have to sign J-smoove, and we need a real 7-foot center
By HAWKS08
June 23, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
The Hawks have to sign J-smoove, and we need a real 7-foot center
By Bowdler for 3
June 23, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
I’m amazed how many of you are so willing to let go of Smoove. 90% of the excitement generated at Phillips during the playoffs came from Smoove. He is THE FUTURE of this franchise. If the ASG screws this up, I’m done with the Hawks.
By SalimFan
June 23, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
So, What do you guys think about team USA for the olympics….the final roster is out. With Billups and Amare pulling out I was suprised they went with Chris Paul and Wade Instead of Joe.
Michael Redd is the only Pure Shooter on the roster. Howard is the only center…
By Ramon
June 23, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
The BEST new of the weeks is being overlooked by many. Joe will not be on the US squad! Thats great news for the Hawks (especially if they resign Joshes). This will give them a summer of rest and going back in to camp healthy.
By Andrew
June 23, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
As Sekou said, build around three players and fill in the rest of the team.
I think it is imperative that the Hawks hold onto Johnson, JSmith and Horford as their nucleus. If some team is going to offer $13 a year for Smith, pony up and pay the man.
I know that the Hawks are saying that they want to re-sign both Smith and Childress, but what kind of contract is Childress going to command. He is a great bench player but if the Hawks could sign and trade him for a decent center and perhaps a guy who could come off the bench, play SG/SF and actually SHOOT the ball, I would do that in a second.
Atlanta needs more quality depth off the bench, and, for me, re-signing Smith and addressing the bench need to be the two priorities this season
By SalimFan
June 23, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
Maaaan, Shaq just Demolished Kobe. If it weren’t for the draft and Trade Rumors…….Forget that, this will be top news tomorrow!! (Video)
(Article)
By SalimFan
June 23, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
Ramon, I guess lol. But I really wanted to see Joe Crush some international competition.
But it’s defenetly better to have him back in the states healthy……He might become an alternate though.
By Mike is back
June 23, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
Sekou I agree, the ASG focus should be on retaining it’s own FAs. Why would you tip your had to the other GMs by looking around for S&T deals before see what the other GMs are going to do. If someone really wants to deal, let know it want be cheap. I remember last year when Billups was an FA, no one on expected Detroit to retain Billups.
I heard a few trades that makes since, but most of the trades mentioned brings in aging players that are past their prime, and create cap problems. Which would you rather have, a young team with cap problems, or an old team with cap problems?
Without the KG deal, Boston does not win the championship. There are not many guys like a KG for teams to sign. Rasheed doesn’t make the Hawks a instant contender for the title. I think if the Hawks could some how make a deal for Diop or something with Portland, then you consider packing Chill or Marvin in a trade.
Just because Woody doesn’t want any more youngsters does not mean you let your top young talent go, just to make a deal. Both Joshes have the intangible that you want in young players. These are young guys that are just starting to tap into their full potential. One thing is for sure, the Hawks team doesn’t get any worst by bringing both Joshes both back.
Everyone keeps talking about Igodula, wasn’t it his inability to shoot one of the main reasons Philly couldn’t deliver the knock blow to Detroit. Has everyone forget that Igodula couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean during the playoff, but I don’t see Igodula getting hammered the way Smoove does on this blog. Furthermore, if Philly wants to pair JS and Iggy together, what position will JS play, Iggy is a 3, you know Iggy and JS can not play the 2, that leaves the 3 or 4 position. Why would Philly be willing to brake the bank as some says to sign JS so he can play the same positions he plays for the Hawks. Makes you go Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
We all know it was a terrible gamble to let both Joshes become RFAs, but don’t compound the problem by over reacting. These are young guys with tremendous upsides. Besides both guys are RFAs so why panic now, you can match any offer these guys receive. Lets see what the other teams are going to do, I doubt Philly will trade Dalembert, especially with the strong season he had. Why would you give up a legit 7 footer with experience and gamble on another in the draft.
Yes, we definitely need a legit Big to man the post, but there are just not many available. Any GM that has one is not going to give them up for some low foyer player on your team. Concentrate on signing both Joshes and see what serviceable Bigs are out there to be had.
By Najeh Davenpoop
June 23, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
That’s the first and probably last time I have ever seen a rapper brag about getting a vasectomy in a freestyle.
By MannyT
June 23, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
doc PAIN is the regular screw ups that bad franchises have over and over. Officially it is professional athletics ineffectiveness normalization
You would think I used to work for the government ;-)
Looking up some info on the Pistons commentary above—who do I see as a new assistant coach but Harold Ellis. I guess you don’t need your college/minor league scout if you are not drafting anyone. Then again, how do you highlight those undrafted free agents (best available players 61 and up) w/o the guy who does that job.
doc this is another example of PAIN.
I’m sure Sund will fill the slot, but how much good does that do him for 11 PM on draft night when you need to pounce on these agents and make something happen. It’s not like we have exclusive rights to the undrafted.
Oh yeah, Detroit is over the cap so there is no real sign & trade opportunity for Smith. Chills might do a mid level exception just to open himself up to many teams, but he’d be wiser to stay here and pull a bigger salary for a few years.
PAIN
By travis
June 23, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
LET’S DO THE MATH TO SEE IF WE SHOULD KEEP THE JOSHES. bibby 13 mil, joe* 13 mil, **speedy 6 that is 32mil for the 08-09 season, so if we give smoove 12 mil and chills 8mil that puts us at 52 mil, zaza makes 4, marvin makes 4 that puts us at 60mil, acie, 1.5, horford 2.5, and the rest of the bench about 3 mil. this puts us at about 65mil which is the cap for next yr. PLEASE CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG.
If we sign both of them, we still won’t have room for a 5. we should “pimp” our position, see what we can get for smoove and chills and/or marvin. don’t be emotional, do what is the best interest for the team
By SalimFan
June 23, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
Iggy was geting tripl and doubleteamed (not tha i’m lobbying for him to come here) but he’s a decent shooter…..honestly, better than smoove (shoting wise). Though I still wouldn’t give up smoove for Iggy.
Check out these rediculous coments. Start from the top an read down a bit. Kobe Fans are rediculous lol. Click the vid up top to watch what happend.
Kobe accedentaly hits lady with towel.
Rasheed does it too in this Vid.
Classic….
By SalimFan
June 23, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
Bibby us actually at 15 Mill next season.
Look, regardless were going over the cap SOOO the Hawks might as well sign free agents FIRST b/c as i’ve stated befor rranchises can go over the cap in order to sighn the players they already own the rights too. That’s smoove,chills and Andersen (already gone). Mario and the rest of the bench are Unrestricted Free Agents so we wouldn’t be able to go over the cap to sign them.
Like I said since were gonna go over the cap anyway (like HALF of the leauge) we might as well bite the bullet and sign UFA’s that we need and then sign our RFA’s to the money they desire.
By MannyT
June 23, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
travis The cap for next year will be in the high 50s. The Luxury tax range will be close to 70.
Actual Hawks cap charges are here. Actual salaries for the Joshes will be higher for sure!
If the Hawks resign both Joshes, we will be close to the luxury tax. If we actually get semi-desirable veterans for a few bench slots, then we will need to use the mid-level exception and possibly the cap space available for a free agent if signed prior to closing the deal on our much higher than cap charged RFAs.
Long story short, we pay a lot more to keep what we have. If we want to save money, we let Josh Smith go for nada or a trade exception. Odds are long that we sign & trade for useful players.
If Sund pulls some magic, good things can happen. If not, think PAIN.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Yeah Salimfan, Shaq said he was just having fun, and he has no beef with Kobe. All mc’s do that.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Mike, Josh Smith would play PF for Philly alonside Dalembert or Jason Smith. TRUE CENTERS. And Iggy struggled in the Playoffs for sure, but most players do in their 1st Playoff appearance.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this
If the Sixers ended up with Smith, what would they do with Thaddeous Young? How about Smith in a sign and trade for Thaddeous and Jason Smith?(both still on rookie contract) Bibby, Joe, Thaddeous, Horford, Smith, with Chills, Marvin, Acie, Zaza, Solo, and Mario off the bench.
By SalimFan
June 23, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
TB, I’m not buying it lol. You don’t go that hard on the mic unless you have a vendetta. And since everything that shaq said was an actual Fact…… It only leads me to beleive that the Deisel is still Bitter and Fuming in the inside.
By SalimFan
June 23, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this
Iggy was in the Playoffs with philly and C-Webb right????
You mean first playoff series as “The-Man”
By SalimFan
June 23, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
No way the ASG isn’t that dumb. Thaddeus is nice but Smoove is a BEAS who trancended the Collegiate level.
In the LONG-RUN, I don’t think smoove going to philly is a good thing for his career.
You Trade in: Bibby, Joe Johnson, and Al Horford
For: Andre Miller, Andre Igoudala, and Samuel Dalembert
I…….think he’d rather stay in tha A.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
I’m not comparing Thaddeous and Smoove. Teams usually do sign and trade’s to save money. Thaddeous and Jason Smith’s salaries combined, would’nt be as much as Josh Smith’s by himself. Well at least for a few years anyway.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
I think he’ll go where the money is.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
Thaddeous Young 1.9 million Jason Smith 1.3 million Josh Smith 11 million min. If we made that deal we’d save about 8 million to fill out our bench with some vets.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
Cheeks saw first hand what Josh could do, when we played those back to back, home and home games against the Sixers. If I’m correct, Smith was on his game when we went to Philly and spanked that azz. 18 pts and 10 reb. And he went for 12 pts 8reb 5 assists and 1 block in the loss at home.
By Ken Strickland
June 23, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
BIGEASY830-CAnthony hasn’t been able to take Denver any farther than the Hawks went this past yr. His matador DEF helped Camby lead the NBA in blocked shots. We don’t have a shotblocker to cover up his inability to even spell DEF. He’d only cause Horford to stay in foul trouble trying to prevent Mello’s man from scoring. We need a DEF minded, rebounding center more than a ballhoging scorer.
The Hawks have to take a long look at their future before deciding to resign Smoove. Salim, Richardson, West and Chills are FA’s. Zaza and Bibby are in the last yr of their contracts. We have to consider resigning Marvin, JJ and Horford. Woodson has shown himself to be too stupid to recognize the need to develop young players and a bench. It’s too costly to stock our bench with quality vets, like he prefers.
If we resign JSmith, we will have approximately $40M tied up in 3 players(JJ, Bibby and Smith) without addressing any of our needs or weaknesses.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
With all that said, the BASG will more tham likely match any offer. Smoove sells tickets for one thing, and those cheap mf’s know that Bibby’s 14 million will be off the books soon. Trust me, they might not no much, but they know that. lol!!
By birdman
June 23, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
Listen folks! Josh Smith would love to stay in Atlanta. He’s from here. He’s already the face of the franchise. Never refuses an interview. Supports his team eloquently when ask to do so. Man never seen this kind of hate for Frenchy! Right now he’s in Africa respresenting the NBA. He’s learning to be a responsible man. He’s self motivated. We got to sign him folks! Be patient! He was the best late round pick we ever had!
By Mike is back
June 23, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this
terrell barron, that was Smoove first playoff too. I was really pointing to the fact that the other teams and GMs must see something we don’t, because on the blog all you ever hear about is what Smoove can not do. Yea he takes bad shots, and Yea his shooting and handle needs work, but he more than make up for it with his hustle plays, defense, and rebounding. Smoove can impact the game without scoring. He’s one of those players that make game changing plays and he’s only going to get better. The thing about Smoove is he willing to put the work in to get better. Just maybe other teams are looking at his potential and realize that his faults can be corrected?
What is being overlooked is that once we got Bibby, someone that could talk to Smoove, instead of yelling and screaming at him, he significantly reduce the turnovers and bad shoots. He may be a 4 yr player, but he’s a 4 year player right out of high school. Coming out of high school; being drafted by the Hawks, playing for the BAASG, and being coach by Woody. If he can excel under these circumstances, then the sky is the limit. Same goes for the Chill, Acie, Salim, Mario, and Solomon.
I agree that signing both Joshes eat up your cap space, but blame that on the BAASG. All I’m saying is that it’s time ASG spend some money. Push the limits of the cap if you have too, you get relief next year unless you’re giving up on Acie. I know it’s a stretch to expect the BAASG to resign both Joshes. Like Doc and the rest of guys said, as a fan, why should I shell out money for BAASG and they can’t do the same for me. Both these guys went about their business and didn’t whine about their contract during the season. It’s time for the BAASG to show some loyalty to their fan base or the Hellllllll with them.
By doc
June 23, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
yeah manny t i noticed that about ellis. funny he was the head scout that hawks sales used to try and drum up business by having him enthusiastically talk of the hawks present and future. he was sooo high on horford saying the guy pulled out all the stops when he brought in the film clip of ali and then pumped his chest and said “i got mine” going out the door to lead the teams enthusiasm. it was his stirring speech not woody’s that ramped the team up before game three, woody probably literally owes him his job in more ways than one. not a good thing that ellis is now gone.
unless sund has the ability to pull rabbits out of a hat i see it as less than 50-50 to keep nucleus intact while adding to the roster of the needs that have long been apparent. finances arent there to spend so much on a team and coach that isnt proven to be a better than .500 club even with bibby.
By terrell barron
June 23, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
Chris Brossaurd was just saying that when Larry Brown coached the Olympic Team 4 yrs ago he would’nt hardly play Melo or Lebron, because he just doesnt trust young players. Who does that sound like? I feel sorry for Felton, Dudley, May and Morrison. lol!!
By true gm
June 23, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
First of all the Hawks need to find a way to get in this draft at the #3 spot and somewhere around #15 or so. At the #3 spot they could get the point guard that has eluded them for so many years, OJ Mayo. OJ can also fillit up from outside. You put him beside JJ and man opposing defenses will have nightmares. Also, get Roy Hibbert with the second pick. All big men from Georgetown do well in the NBA. Georgetown is a fraternity that turns out great pro centers, Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo. We also need to keep both Josh’s. If we have to trade someone or two trade Bibby who is highly paid and still has some juice left in his tank and Marvin Williams is starting to show promise. The reasons you get rid of Bibby is becasue of his age, salary and he never could get the job done while in Sacto. The reason you get rid of Marvin is because he has some value now and many teams want battle tested guys instead of drafting unproven talent. Bibby would be a nice fit in Minnesota with the pieces they have and Marvin Williams would go nice with any team that has draft rights #15-20 (projected area where Hibbert could go). If the Hawks want to give me a job just email me.
By MannyT
June 23, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
Those coach look ins during the playoffs really firmed up my thoughts about Woody. He might have value during practice and meetings, but we could replace him with a card board cut out once it’s game time.
As these staff guys quietly leave, it would be nice to know if anyone has signed a deal to stay. Not looking for financials, just curious if there will be a summer league team, who will put it together and who will coach it.
Maybe this HoopsHype list will help Sund find some of those players. This makes me wonder—do we send scouts to lower level pre draft workouts at other sites to see these guys? How do we know who we really want to bring in for summer league?
WAF
By bigeasy830
June 23, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
Ken Strickland, the only consistent scorer the Hawks have on this team is Joe. J-Smoove is a very good player. I really love what he brings to the table. But, even though he is very young. I believe he has almost reached his ceiling. He is a great shot blocker, but he struggles in one on one defense against other power forwards and most good 3’s, he will block there shots from behind after they beat him off the dribble, he blocks almost 3 of those shots per game but he also gives up many lay-ups. Plus, I do not see him improving his offensive abilities to much more he is what he is, the only way he will improve his scoring average next year is for him to take more shots and that will not be good for the team. Carmelo and Joe and as a tandem and the hawks win 50 next year for sure and maybe win their division and get a 3 seed. Al Horford is a power forward and he needs to play his positon now, this will help his development even more. We have to many 3’s (J-Smoove, Marvin and J-Chill). Its time to deal one of them, since J-Smoove has the most value, lets pull the trigger. Our D-fense was bad because we did not have a big body down low to eat up space and be a true intimidator. Teams still took it to the hole with J-Smoove in there for a reasons. After evaluating the Hawks as a team I think that BK was on to one thing when he made the trade for Joe. When you go with the youth movement, after a while you need to add quality vets and no more young players to take it to that next level. Stockpile talent then tweak the team through trades. We do not need a rookie this year, but Melo would make us a better team by 15 games next year for sure because of the quality of teams in the East. A quality big will then be willing to sign on for the ride. See, I am thinking Championship and not just play-offs. Danny Ainge had the courage to roll the dice last year before the draft, he went for broke, all or nothing. The Hawks do not have to go to that extreme, but you cannot be afraid to make a major move. You have to give up something for something, plain and simple. To all you people that keep screaming D-fense, our D has not been to good anyway and the name of the game is and always has been, outscore the other team. Your core 3 players could be Joe, Melo and Al, then the building process is over, as a fan you can sit back and say, win baby win.
Holla……
By femhawkfan
June 24, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this
Carmelo, Carmelo, Carmelo! I am seeing way to many suggestions about this guy. Carmelo coming to Atlanta is just wishful thinking. Denver will only give up Carmelo if they are getting something MAJOR in return. In order for Carmelo to come to Atlanta, the city would have to give up the rights to the GA Aquarium, World of Coke, and maybe even Centennial Olympic Park!
By darrell starks
June 24, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this
MANNY T THANKS BRO YOUR COMMENT WAS THE BEST I HEARD YOUR 1000 PERCENT RIGHT WE HAVE TOO THINK BIG IT MAY SOUND FUNNY BUT JOSH SMITH IS MY FAVORIT PLAYER BUT THERE IS ONE PROBLEM HE IS NOT A SMALL FORD AND PEOPLE KEEP SCREAMING KEEP JOSH SMITH BUT IF YOU KEEP JOSH SMITH THEN YOU HAVE TOO TRADE ALHORFORD UNLESS YOUR GOING TOO CONTINUE TOO PLAY ALHORFORD AT CENTER AND JOSH SMITH AT POWER FORD. CARMELO ANTHONY WOULD BE REALY NICE IN A HAWKS UNIFORM NOW YOU HAVE TWO PLAYER WHO CAN FEED OFF EACH OTHER AND YOU DONT HAVE TOO DEPEND ON JOE JOHNSON EVERY NIGHT TOO WIN YOU GAMES.LET SEE WHAT THE OWNER GOING TOO DO IF THEY CARE ABOUT WINNING NBA TITTLES OR IS THIS TEAM IS JUST A TAX RIGHT OFF FOR THERE BENNEFITS.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this
Skip college and play overseas??
By Mike is back
June 24, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this
Carmelo is a great talent. If you’re getting Carmelo for Smoove than yea, you pulled the trigger on that trade in a heartbeat. But most of the trades mentioned doesn’t come close to a player of Melo caliber. If trading Smoove or Chill and you’re getting that kind of quality, then it’s a no brainer.
By darrell starks
June 24, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this
IF WE KEEP JOSH SMITH LETS DO THIS TRADE JOSH CHILL TRADE MARVIN WILLIAM AND BIBBY FOR CAP SPACE BECAUSE HE MAKE $14,MILLION A YEAR FOR CARMELO ANTHONY. STARTING FIVE ACIE LAW AT POINT JOE AT BIG GUARD CARMELO AT SMALLFORD JOSH SMITH AT POWER FORD ALHORFORD AT CENTER.ALHORFORD WOULD DO ANYTHING TOO KEEP HE AND JOSH SMITH TOGETHER BENCH PLAYER WE WOULD REALY HAVE TO TAKE TIME OUT AND PUT THIS BENCH TOGTHER BUT YOU HAVE TOO KEEP ZAZA, SALOM JONES, SALIM WHO I THINK CAN PLAY POINT GUARD BEHIND ACIE LAW IF MIKE WOODSON REALY WORK WITH HIM I LUV JOSH SMITH BUT HE WOULD REALY HAVE TO WORK HARD ON BOXING OUT AND GETTING REBOUNDS AND STOP TRYING TOO BLOCK EVERY THING IN CITE BECAUSE WHEN YOU DO THAT THE OTHER TEAM IS IN POSITION TOO REBOUND YOU HAVE TOO HELP ALHORFORD ON THE BOARD BECAUSE YOU ARE SMALL AT THE 4,5 POSITION IF WE PUT THIS BENCH TOGETHER THIS TEAM COULD WIN A NBA TITTLE. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
By ray
June 24, 2008 2:01 AM | Link to this
10 days. That’s the figure that will rule much of what happens when July 1st hits. 10 days. That’s how long we know we have to wait for something to happen. That’s the timeline we’ll have to work with when Josh Smith (and/or Josh Childress) gets his first offer from another team. At least we’ll know how long we have to wait for movement. All it takes is that first offer….then 10 days.
I’ve never had any problems saying how much I like Josh Smith. I’ve also never had any problems saying repeatedly that if he ends up going (an idea I hate, but reality is what it is), we damn sure better get something in return that helps us. We do NOT want to become the Clippers of the East. The problem is this: MannyT could be right. We may end up letting him go for a huge mid-level exception. Why? Think broke-a$$ owners. Trust me, this is the most pessimistic thoughts I have right now (that I’m willing to talk about, that is). If you’re bleeding cash all over the place, it would be much easier to let him go for that, lie about it, when all you’re really doing is saving money on a sinking ship. Or, he could go ala Al Harrington. Look, the ASG wants to sign this guy. But they don’t want to PAY him. They don’t even own this team free and clear. But they can show us how they see the future by whatever it is that they decide to do.
Fact is, every NBA team interested in our RFAs is counting on what they and the general public (at least those paying attention) have come to know: the ASG isn’t stable. Isn’t wealthy. Isn’t a lot of things. What better time to pry away talent? They are the sole and true focus of all this. The arguments about Josh Smith and whether or not he’s a max player (he’s not…yet, anyway), how talented he really is, whether his upside eclipses his problems….they’re all useless. Why? Because it all comes down to whether or not he’s worth the money to a seven-headed monster. Or whether or not they can even afford to pay it. Simple as that.
Here’s what I think: we will lose Josh Smith, and we won’t get something that will help enough right now or even next year. And we will be in the lottery or close to it next year (you never know, those ping pong balls are treacherous).
And now, after those dark thoughts, perhaps a little humor.
I see some people want Jermaine O’Neal. You know, I heard he was going to star in an upcoming movie. It’s called “The Battle of Wounded Knee: A Remake…Again”. Yeahhhh…let’s not try and sign another walking injury, no matter how talented he is when healthy. No spank-you Mr. Helpy-Helperton.
Carmelo Anthony? Coming HERE? Where is this idea coming from? I mean…dude was pi$$ed just that he was mentioned in trade rumors. He doesn’t want to come here. As it was, Denver wasn’t taking Billups and Prince for him. That ought to clue us in on the asking price. Not to mention, Carmelo is not exactly what I’d call a positive locker room influence. Yes, I know he’s talented as hell. I LOVE his offensive game. His defensive game doesn’t exist. And before certain guys start crowing about fans not liking talented, tattooed, black players…just remember this: the guy we just re-signed as head coach? He would hate having Carmelo here. Talk about not getting along….
Chicago is nuts if they trade the top pick in the draft for Dwayne Wade. Wade makes them incredibly better, but does he take them to the top of the East? And for how long? What happens if he gets injured again? And where is that low post scorer going to come from (that they still can’t seem to find)? Can Wade play in the backcourt with Larry Hughes? ‘Cause you know they can’t trade Hughes with that contract….Still, Wade is one sexy offer…I can’t wait to see what Chicago does. They’re my other team.
I can’t remember the last time I heard all these trade rumors regarding the draft. It’s absolutely nuts. The question is, how many trades will actually go down? Better yet, will we even care? Probably not, unless Sund pulls a sneaky move…
Speaking of Sund. Have we forgotten that dude was co-chair of the draft combine? Remember…he also had the entire Hawks staff (before it disintegrated) down there during the event. Imagine how much information he has (this guy ain’t Billy Knight) firsthand alone. There are a lot of things he could do…
There’s no point in adding a young player to the end of the bench. Not when Mike Woodson is on the other end. Because that’s how the situation will remain: Atlanta Hawks, where the average young player goes to die due to disease known as DHCN (Deliberate Head Coach Neglect).
Heh…
By ray
June 24, 2008 2:07 AM | Link to this
Another thing: why are we losing assistant coaches left and right? Everywhere I look, teams with new head coaches (some of which are rookie head coaches) have already or are now adding assistants…in bunches even. And us? Let me guess, no sane person wanting to coach or even help out wants to work with Mr. Potato Head. Can you blame them?
And as for those who support re-signing Woodson: read the writing on the wall. Ellis and Fizdale sure did…
Hopefully I’m just being a pessimistic turd. ‘Cause right now all I see is PAIN, PAIN, PAIN, PAIN, PAIN, PAIN, PAIN, PAIN, PAIN. But hey, July 1st hasn’t hit yet, and at least I’ll be entertained by what happens with the draft in a couple of days. Oh wait…I won’t even be home for that. Dammit. I’ll be in Forsyth Georgia on a training course at the Academy. CRAP!
By Bravesfan79
June 24, 2008 2:26 AM | Link to this
TRADE MARVIN WILLIAMS!! Please while we can still get perhaps a top 20-30 pick in the draft for him!
That might help keep Smith as well!
By ray
June 24, 2008 2:51 AM | Link to this
Oh damn. I just watched the video of Shaq rapping. YOWCH. Here’s what I see:
1)Shaq can’t rap. Well, not any better than anybody else who has a microphone and a little of the “Captain” (as in Morgan) in ‘em…
2)Shaq burns more bridges than Indiana Jones.
3)Uh, Shaq. Last I looked, Kareem Abdul-Jabar had a full team and the Showtime Lakers were better than your Lakers. Don’t hate on Kareem. He had a team. Oh, and he was good, too.
4)Shaq wants to be Barkley so bad…but to do that you have to be willing to make fun of yourself. Besides, Barkley doesn’t go out and make enemies. Sure, he’s thrown a few guys throw glass windows in bars…but he never rapped about somebody from a distance. That’s straight up Pu$$y-fied.
5)Speaking of enemies, Shaq seems to like making a few. Picking on Puff Daddy might not be the best thing. Who’s next, Suge Knight? Look here big boy, more popular people have gone down in a hail of bullets. Don’t think it can’t happen to you just because you were sworn in as a Sheriff’s Deputy down in Miami…which was a freakin’ joke.
6)One more thing. Kobe didn’t get it done without you, but you had another young all-star guard that helped you get that next ring in Miami. Uh, and Kobe went to the Finals this year. Where’d you help that totally loaded Phoenix squad? Oh that’s right…to a grade-A butt whoopin’ at the hands of the elderly Spurs. Yeah….you made Steve Kerr and Robert Sarver look almost as stupid as Mark Cuban…but not quite. And D’Antoni fled the coupe. Hmmmm.
Oh, and you’re getting divorced because your groupies showed up on television talking about your indiscretions, not because Kobe told on ya. You know, the tv special where they described your nether regions in detail and commented on how you’re not quite as big as some people might think (yowch!). Yeah, that one. It was on regular satellite tv. Took me by surprise, (I thought it was going to be a different program altogether) as I’m sure it did the soon-to-be ex-Mrs. O’Neal. Idiot.
By Najeh Davenpoop
June 24, 2008 3:24 AM | Link to this
Responding to the link SalimFan posted, I really hope Brandon Jennings follows through with his plan to play in Euroleague for a year and then come to the NBA. I’ve been saying this ever since they implemented the idiotic age limit rule, that players would be much better suited playing overseas for a year instead of playing in the traveshamockery that is the NCAA. Better training, a salary, and nearly the same amount of exposure thanks to the globalization of the NBA… all without having to deal with stupid eligibility rules and so-called “classes”. Hopefully if he succeeds more players will go that route and David Stern and the NCAA will be exposed for the fools that they are.
By doc
June 24, 2008 7:17 AM | Link to this
great stuff ray agree with so much of it but your attempt to match manny t doesnt come close; dhch vs such stuff as, crap, pain etc. manny t is the king, just hard to imitate and unfortunately yours like shaq doing rap. i do know you got promise just not the right ring.
By Samuel
June 24, 2008 7:37 AM | Link to this
Talk about Pu$$y-fied, how about dissin a 7’, 300+ from virtual land.
By doc
June 24, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this
sounds like someone doesnt want to be someone elses friend.
heh heh
By Big Tc
June 24, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
I like your points and I believe you are correct in that payments has to come from somewhere. I would suggest that we keep the Joshes and work on locking JJ and Hortford down and everyone else can be replace with people already on the squad or some nice middle of the road veterans. Marvin just has not shown the improvement that you would require of a second-overall pick and if we can find a way to get some value for him (a servicable center) we sould be fine.
By MannyT
June 24, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
I may have the acronyms, but ray is definitely more entertaining.
There are variations on that illness that Woody inflicts on the younger players.
ACK - Athletic Career Killer is the general ailment
PACK - Professional Athletic Career Killer is limited to the pros versus those college coaches that hold their players back.
If you are on the lower side of pro success ladder, you are still one of the best ballers in the world, so you get the dual purpose…MACK - Marginal Athletic Career Killer
A player that is really good under the right system, but previously suffers under the wrong one (examples: Dale Ellis, Boris Diaw, Tracy McGrady, Jermaine O’Neal) overcomes the ailment TACK - Temporary Athletic Career Killer
In less obvious ways BK & Woody, Belkin & the rest of the ASG, all suffered from, but no longer had each others…BACK - Business Athletic Career Killer
…and finally for those regular folks that have been fired because they just could not do the job, there is LACK - Limited Ability Career Killer
Enough of this. Gotta get something done before I get back here to comment on more of the night shift.
WAFFLE
By MsDee
June 24, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Carmelo for JSmoove..NO WAY..Let’s compare the two: Carmelo=great baller but no DEF/Josh Smith=Sweeps the stat sheet w/ DEF not the best shooter..Carmelo=trouble maker..likes to party..wife/girlfriend is a party DJ..ATLANTA a party city..DUI traffic tickets..etc/Josh Smith=from Atlanta..plays hard..continues to get better every single year..no trouble known as of yet in atlanta..wants to be here..
By Sautee
June 24, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
MannyT
So, with the re-signing of Woody, do we now change the nickname of Philips?
No longer the Highlight Factory. Welcome to the
WAFFLE HOUSE
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
Samuel, If shaq didn’t want to get dissed from virtual land he wouldn’t say stupid things in public. When you’re famous everthing you say is practically on record SOMEWHERE.
Also sammy, calling a police officer pu$$yfied certainly isn’t any smarter than shaq running his mouth.
Poop, I agree. You get to overule stern’s stupid age limit, get some exposure and get PAID. In the end you’ll be more mature and when you hit the leauge you’ll probably play right away b/c you’ve ALREADY been playing professionally overseas……..Did I mention he gets paid. So veven if he gets injured he’s financially secure.
There are down sides though.
1) He won’t have the national television exposure he wuld if he plaed at Arizona. BUT that doen’t stop tons of forigeners from getting drafted every year……I think GM’s LIKE not knowing who they’re drafting….Kinda like opening a happy meal, you just don’t know what you’re gonna get.
2) He’s not as successful overseas as he’s projected to be. That one speaks for itself. I’m sure that won’t hinder him too much though. As long as he gets playing time he’ll be O.K
By JC
June 24, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
How come nobody ever brings up the fact the Josh Smith gets his blocks from behind? Meaning he gets them after he gets beat on D. He is not a great overall defender but his stats make it seem that way.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
Sautee…..Damn thats funny.
By bigeasy830
June 24, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
The reason a J-moove for Melo deal can be worked out is simple. Melo has told Denver he longer wants to be there. J-Smoove is the hottest free agent out there even if he is restricted. Kenyon Martin has not been worth a dime for a minute, Denver may be thinking they can replace Kenyon with J-Smoove to pair up with Camby and have two shot blocking beast. Giving up Melo for a great young talent like J-Smoove is not a bad deal for Denver. I want Melo in ATL but damn, some of you are talking as if Melo is Kobe or even Jordan. Melo is not an untouchable talent. Why would Denver choose an aging point guard in Billups over J-Smoove if they had to choose on which deal to take and if we throw in Speedy, his contract expires next year, then you save money after next year on that deal. You see it works out for Denver. Plus, the way their team is put together, they will not win the West, they must make some major moves. That is why the should be interested in that deal. And, the Hawks will win at least 50 games next year with Melo and Joe, win there division and get at least a 3 seed and who knows after the play-offs start. The rebuilding process will be over. You can put Al Horford in his natural position of power forward. We can stop blogging about a young up and coming team full of potential. And, start blogging about a still young team that is a contender. Think Title ATLANTA. Think NBA Championship next year not in the future. Why not. To do this we must make major moves. J-Smoove for Melo is one that is possible and wold put us in the hunt. Think Hawks and Celts game 7 Eastern conference finals. Match-ups as follows. Joe v/s Jesus Shuttleworth, Al v/s Garnett, and Melo v/s Pierce, a healthy Bibby, v/s Rondo, their bench v/s (AC, J-Chill, Marvin). I like the Hawks odds if that was the scenario.
By Ticket Season Holder from #5
June 24, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Josh Smith is an All-Star. And anyone who says he isn’t is a bum and must not watch the games. Yeah..HE HAS LAPSES…but his potential and upsid eis way better than anyone we can get in a sign and trade. Hawks could have signed him last yr at 5yr/50 mil and he would have taken it. Now he knows he’s worth more. He wants money like Shawn Marion, if not more. Our best bet is to do a sign and trade for Chills…we could get much better talent and maybe that Center/Big that you all are looking for.
And P.S.- Only JJ kisses Woody’s anus. Cuz thats the only coach that will allow him to soot as many shots as he does a game.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
TrueGM, do you honestly believe that Minnesota would rather have Bibby than the #3 pick? Even Mchale’s dumbazz aint that stupid. That team is rebuilding. What would they want with an aging Bibby? Unless your’re Mchale, I would’nt look for that deal to get done, by no means.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
Ray, Shaq was’nt picking on Diddy. Those rap war days are over man. This aint 1985. PLEASE!! Shaq and Puffy are friends. Do you guys no what FREESTYLIN is? Evidently not!
By kwooden1
June 24, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
With Dave Anderson signing with the Euro league, it really makes it a priority to get a young cheaper guy so the HAWKS have space to sign JS. If you trade Chills for a draft pick and pick-up a cheap FA, you still have a weaker roster, but 64M is around what the payroll will be and that includes signing JS to 11M/per. They still have to do something with Speedy, but the following year will look good with Bibby’s contract coming off the books. I don’t see any problem signing another rookie, if the kid can play. Phillp only had one really good Vet (Miller) on their team (Ollie and Evans don’t count) and played as well as the HAWKS if not better in the Playoffs. (they actually won a road game!!)
Mike Bibby 15.2M Joe Johnson 14.2M Josh Smith 11M Al Horford 4.0M Zaza Pachulia 4.0M
Acie Law 2.0M Speedy Claxton 5.7M Marvin Williams 5.6M Solomon Jones 0.7M Douglas-Roberts 1.1M Unknown FA 1.5M
Total 64M
This at least makes sense (to me) and is above the Cap, but below the Luxury Tax which is the key. I don’t think letting Chills go is something that you want to do, but I think that reasonably you have to part with one of them and JS wins that discussion.
GO HAWKS!
By true gm
June 24, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
terrell barron, mchale traded kevin garnett for nothing, nuff said. Even if we had to throw marvin williams in the mix for OJ Mayo it would be the right thing. Mayo has always played point guard until this year at USC. He is the best point guard in this draft and with all the scrutiny he has had to endure since in 8th grade he has handled himself well. If we have to give up Marvin then we have to find a way to get big Hibbert. He is going to be a solid NBA center.
By Dr. De
June 24, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Sekou/anyone, is this a unrealistic trade? Marvin to Portland for Webster or Outlaw, Jack and the 13th pick. Draft Robin Lopez. Lopez appears to be a young Ben Wallace in the middle. We get deeper bench and a crazy man in the middle. Portland gets a reliable small forward and loose two unwanted contracts.
By Raptors fan in TO
June 24, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
So I see Josh Smith is in the trade rumour mill again. So is TJ Ford, albeit he has been linked to Phoenix (who dreamed THAT up???) and Indiana. You guys still need a point gaurd, right? Let’s make a deal!
By Jonesy
June 24, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Since we are “short” on bigs, why not bring in David Andersen. He has a commitment with us and surely he would be a cheaper and more experienced gamble at center than a 2nd rounder.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
No he did’nt. He traded Garnett because Garnett wanted to win a Championship. Minnesota was starting over and going young. Garnett did’nt want any part of that. Can you blame him? He’s in the latter part of his career. Mchale had held him hostage long enough. And you cant rebuild when one guy is making 25 million$. And btw, If I was GM of a rebulding team, I would’nt mind having Al Jefferson, a 2009 pick and some throw ins. Thats a start.
By ray
June 24, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Doc, I can’t argue with that. MannyT is the man.
Terrell Barron, that was a joke in and of itself. I know there’s nothing serious there with Shaq and Puffy. Besides, Shaq can’t rap well enough to be in a rap-war.
Samuel, riddle me this: are you not doing the exact same thing* with your post? Hello pot, my name is kettle. I don’t see you on my actual doorstep talking trash…and unlike Shaq, there’s no security to hold ya back. Come on in to Ray’s castle and see if you can deal with the heat. Heh.
By mykhalc
June 24, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
DING!!!!
By Matt
June 24, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
David Andersen just signed a three year deal with Barcelona, but it sounds like he can and would still come to the Hawks if they matched. Here’s the story: http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23902300-23769,00.html
Here’s another story that seems to imply that he’ll stay in Europe for at least a year or two more.
By tyger
June 24, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Hawks Contenders 2008
ATL sends Bibby, Speedy, Marvin, ZaZa, Childress to Denver = $36M.
Denver sends Iverson, Anthony, JR Smith, #20 to ATL =$36M.
Why? Melo and AI are East Coast guys that didnt make Denver better. Bibby, Marvin and Chills are West Coast guys that would give Denver young legs and cap relief.
Both Marvin and Melo are #2 picks as well as Iverson and Bibby.
Tarheel Karl will love Marvin, who with Chills, gives him 2 young stallions on the wings. ZaZa would be his only healthy big among several. And both Speedy and Bibby come off the books this season.
ATL gets the vets it needs to make its run: AI, JJ, Melo, Smoove and Horford would run the table. The Phipp would sell out every game. Use the #20 pick on Roy Hibbert and we get a true center for the Shaqs and Yaos of the league and we’re talking championship.
I’d much rather pay Allen Iverson over the next 2 years than Bibby and Speedy.
Melo is what Marvin could be, better get value for him now before he turns into Kwame Brown.
JR is an uber-athletic shooter that also needs a change of scenery.
Character issues my arse!!! We’ve got enough good guys to corrall them all. Horford, JJ and Smoove are still the core.
They would love the ATL and the ATL would love them. Its a match made in Heaven, just need the balls to pull the trigger.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Who would you rather play for? A stable organization with tons of money, or a unstable organization with no money(BASG)? Anderson is HISTORY!
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Who would you rather play for? A stable organization with tons of money, or an unstable organization with no money(BASG)? Anderson is HISTORY!
By Ken Strickland
June 24, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
After reading these posts, including mine, I’ve concluded that most of us are suffering from withdrawal. It’s much worse than in previous yrs because we’re coming off a major 7 gm playoff high. Because Woodson is sill the HC, I just can’t get excited about any suggested trades or additions to the roster. Man, that’s a frustrating feeling.
Actually, at this point, I’m less frustrated with Woodson and more frustrated with ownership. We can propose trades, FA signings and complain about BK, Sund and Woodson all we want. But until the members of that SAASG(sorry A$$ Atlanta Spirit Group) gets their collective heads out of their collective anuses, nothing positive will happen. Now that’s frustrating as well.
I’m sorry for being so negative, but I’m just tired of seeing every aspect of this team and this operation being mishandled. I mean, the constant turmoil and in fighting that’s extended from ownership to management(GM’s) to HC. The one thing that really excites me is how our young players rallied against all odds and overcame all of this ignorance, stupidity and incompetence, made the playoffs and made all of us so proud. Now, in light of all of that, it’s up to the weak link in our chain, the SAASG, to make the decisions necessary for us to build upon those accomplishments. Let’s hope for the best.
By MannyT
June 24, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
A moment to get my BoB business of basketball on!
While this post could be in the business section, there are 2 posts here that scream for this view.
SalimFan from a money perspective, the high schooler, Brandon Jennings, is very wise to consider Europe IF he can play his game while living in a foreign land as a teenager. This impact should not be minimized, because in general US folks are some of the least world view ready folks on the globe. (Yes, I am US born American.)
We don’t encourage learning multiple languages or cultures at an early age compared to other parts of the world. The culture impact could make him look like much less of a hoops talent than he actually is.
As for the money, I’ll roll David Andersen into the conversation. Matt check the dates on your info. Andersen signed the FC Barcelona deal after the Aussie interview. People say he was asking for a lot at $5 mil/yr. That is a very reasonable request given that he was making about 1/3 of that tax free with special perks (housing, transportation, etc) in Russia.
Check the value of the dollar versus the Euro these days. The weak dollar is good for exports, not imports. If Andersen gets 3.5 million Euro it works about the same as 5 million US$.
I think I’d take the same money to play 1/2 as many games in an easier league, so I can’t complain about the 28 yr old or the 18 yr old.
You guys can do your traditional throw the ASG under the cheap bus here but part of it is the economy.
There are side effects to going global!
World wide PAIN!
By The Flash
June 24, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
To me, Traceman has it about right. You don’t sign Smith, you are an idiot, unless you get Melo. Sekou also has it right; big mistake not wrapping him up sooner.
I’d have to think that you have to resign Childress too.
It does seem that for years the Spirit’s decisions are dictated by their need to conserve cash. If you can’t afford to own a team, you shouldn’t.
If the Josh’s get away and this team does not land a sure thing aka Melo, Stern has only himself to blame. That reading of the ownership agreement was such a crock; now, they hold the team in limbo as this thing of theirs with Belkin winds and winds its way through the courts, which would be okay if they behaved like owners. So far the concensus here seems to be that they have not.
That there is such a concensus about anything here is freakin unbelieveable, that it be about something like this is plain nuts. Here’s hoping that the Spirit realize that they have no choice now; to allow this team to emplode after that showing in Boston would be a crime.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Hey Tyger, you do understand that Denver also has to agree to the deal, dont you?
By MannyT
June 24, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Back to regular hoops talk.
Sautee I think I’ll roll out a special T-shirt during the pre-season that will have a waffle on it because the Waffle House does not have their own!
All y’all need to find a little hope somewhere. I get that there are lots of POTENTIAL problems, but look at the ACTUAL, not the potential.
We need players, but we cannot sign any rookies until after the draft. We cannot do anything with free agents (ours or others) until July.
Sund has to get the roster to 13 per NBA rules. At least 5 players that are not under contract today, will be by November.
Speculate all you want, just don’t stress out yet.
All the ACTUALS that make me quesy are about coaching. Because the coaching mix will change. maybe the new pieces and the maturing of the players will minimize the negatives.
For those that want Harold Ellis’s old job with the Hawks, I suggest you get to Suwanee this weekend.
Who knows, one or two of these guys might end up on our summer league team or better!
The ball really starts rolling about 10PM on Thursday night.
Until something happens, good CRAP is still possible.
By Eternal Optimist
June 24, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
From reading these post, it is obvious that alot of folks know nothing about basketball. We have to make every attempt to sign these guys,especially JSmith. He’s our best post defender. The guy is top 3 blocks in the NBA at small forward. His offensive game needs some work but remember he’s only 22. It would be crazy to draft a guy, groom him and then let someone else reap the benefits. Atlanta has too much of a history of giving away great talent for nothing in return. You got to sign him. JChildress is another guy I like alike. He is one of the top sixth men in the east. You got a 6’9 guy that can play the point, 2, or 3 positions. He is our best on the ball defender. His length causes problems for alot of teams. Personally I’m not sold on Bibby. Yeah, he’s a proven clutch player, but that was 3-4 yrs ago.In our playoff run he looked slow. He was the weak link on defense in every matchup. We need to continue to develop Acie, Stodimiere, Solomon and find a decent big, not so much for scoring but to be a force in the defensive paint.
By Gilley
June 24, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
By SSI Fan
For those of you who would argue that he will be a good shooter with practice I ask you if Shaq ever got to be a good free throw shooter and did Jason Kidd ever get to be a good shooter. If Smith is a poor shooter at 22 then he’ll be a poor shooter at 32.
Kobe was a poor shooter early in his career but he went ni the gym and worked on his jumper and range and now he is deadly. It is the work that you put in and some people don’t work hard enough on one area of their game so they don’t improve. Josh Smith can improve his jumper in order for it to be effective. 45% at least.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
Ken, I’ve pretty much accepted the fact that Woody is the Coach to start the season. Maybe he’ll suprise us and start trying to develop the young guys. Last year, he really did’nt have a choice. He had to play the vets, especially late in the season when he knew it was Playoffs or bust. He has a full season with what he had last year, and possibly a little more(hopefully). I better see some big time improvement from Marvin and Zaza for one thing. And Acie and Solo better play a hell of a lot more than they did last year. If were not at .500 or better by the All-Star break, and the youngsters are’nt contributing because dumbazz wont play em, his azz is grass. And he knows it!!
By doc
June 24, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
flash with is frightening is they did it with their hockey team last year. it went from division winners to the third worst team in the nhl.
yup manny t we see eye to eye on anderson as he will play an ncaa schedule for mid tier nba money. let me see if i was him to consider less money to be ignored by a coach and teammates in atlanta or be a star for more money in barcelona and close to the beaches with a good night life. yup, i could be a euro punk if paid that well though i would make sure to wear cologne for ray.
sautee, waffle house has a ring to it. it could go with the old unis too.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Eternal optimist, Since when did Chills grow to be 6’9? Did I miss something? And Smoove played PF, not SF, for the 1500th time.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Marshmello Anthony is getting into trouble in DEVER COLORADO come on!!
What kind of Havoc do you think he’ll cause if the comes to the ATL huh??? With all these night spots?? And Driving Rules are 10X more strict in Georgia than in Denver…..BTW he’s been suspended the first two games of the season for that (yesterday).
Besides, Josh gives you 17ppg with nice defense.
With the Starters + Chills:
22(JJ)+17(JS)+15(MW)+14(MB)+10(AH)+12(JC)=70PPG
Now factor in (Next Year) Acie + One more scorer(Shooter) and a solid Garbage man.
Suprisingly we still managed to average 98ppg last season. But with carmelo that doesn’t matter b/c there’s no defense.
Remeber smoove’s block on D-Wade last season?? How many times has he bailed the Hawks out of trouble??? Get Real People.
Ken, I hear ya. It’s hard for me to talk about anyrthing knowing woody is coming back. Not to mention our sorry management.
By MannyT
June 24, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Sekou Do the Hawks have a person like this?
Not trying to get the inside scoop on what the stat geek does, but this year seems like a great time to have such a person on board to find a few undrafted free agents that are likely to contribute.
This role would also help the ASG find value players that can fill the summer league team and bench.
Maybe this is how you find more Marios that don’t play locally in college.
If we don’t have one, I have some suggestions on where we could identify some candidates…but I’m not posting them in a blog!
terrell I believe Chills height is 6-11 with hair, 6-8 in shoes, 6-6+ bare foot ;-)
Statistically good CRAP
By Matt
June 24, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Man, I can’t stop laughing…Josh Smith the Hawks’ best post defender?? Josh Smith is a pure help defender at this point. Al Horford is, far and away, the best post defender the Hawks have now, and the best they’ve had since Ratliff flew the coop.
And yes, Smoove has bailed the Hawks out of trouble more than once with a highlight reel block. He’s also gotten us burned at least several dozen times by leaving his man open for an easy bucket because he left him early to try and get one of those highlight reel blocks. Josh might have saved us 5 points per game with his blocks, but he easily lost us that many with poor on-ball defense or poor decisionmaking about when to leave his man.
The thing that impressed me the most about Horford this season was how patient he was. He rarely would leave his man too early or get in the air too early and give up a three point play. Most importantly, he gets great positioning when he’s getting backed down, which forces his man to take fadeaways and off-balance shots. I remember watching many, many plays where Smoove let himself get backed down to the point where his man could shoot an easy hook from within 5 feet.
Smoove is more athletic, but he also still thinks he can rely on his athleticism to make up for poor defensive positioning. Horford gets good position, reads opposing offenses well, and uses his not inconsiderable athleticism to block or alter shots. If you ask who I want to have guarding Boozer, Amare, or any other dangerous scorer on the low post, there’s no contest.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Matt, What’s your point?
Horfords not the issue here, he’s locked up for another three years at the least. The Question is do we keep smoove of try to intiate a sign and trade.
It doesn’t matter what Horford can or can’t right now do because they play for the same ball club. Hoford is the Ying to Josh’s Yang. But not for long of the ASG gets stingy with the dough.
Can someone explain this whole sign and trade deal to me because i’m still iffy on the subject.
Do Restricted Free Agents make the call or are their former teams in the driver seat? Naturally I would think any sign and trade would have to be okayed by the Free Agent Right???
By cdawg
June 24, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
I say trade Smith for Iggy and Phillys #1. They want Smith in a bad way. The Hawks then have the SF they need in Iggy and can draft their Center of the future.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
BTW, During the playoffs it’s been well documented that NO ONE CAN STOP KG (Rasheed). That applies to Horford as well. He got used and abused just as many times as josh did. But in our Wins, josh matched him with his offensive game. Horford even had a couple os 20pt games in the playoffs.
Suprisingly though, ZAZA’s size actually was giving KG fits. It is kinda hard to move 285 pounds around lol.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
So he’s still 6’6? I thought I’d missed something. Remember, the other players wear shoes too. lol!!
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
cdawg, Philly doesn’t want smith WITHOUT Iggy. They want both of them and the have the cap space to pull it off. that team would be scary…..I don’t think it’s gonna happen though.
In my previous post, I meant Rasheed couldn’t stop KG either.
Childress Official Draft Measuremnts.
(Socks) 6’ 5.75”(With Shoes)6’ 7.25”
By KevinM
June 24, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
To answer a few of you here:
Carmelo - don’t want him here in Atlanta….to me, he has baggage for young player and he will not improve those around him….plus, I don’t think he is even the draw that Smoove is to this city. He and AI and Kenyon play well together don’t they? They are trying to save some bucks by moving Camby? Haha, that’s a huge mistake. Melo and AI are stuck together for another year and Karl may not last the whole season. Dalembert- I don’t like his contract…highest paid on his team….I think he has peaked. I didn’t see him do much in the playoffs….don’t think he helps enough for his salary.
S&T Smoove - out of the question - you don’t get talent back equal to what he does…..you sign him (I don’t care the asking price..I’m not paying him and I didn’t put the team us in this pay what-the-market-makes-us-pay scenario.
Chills - IMO, he is looking for just under Ginobli-$$ and he doesn’t do what Ginobli does for his team. Chills doesn’t have a 3 pointer in his repertoire or just isn’t willing to take it in crucial spots….he didn’t do it in the playoffs for me at all. Get a shooting threat for Chills…I dont know who, but give us someone off the bench for Vinnie Johnson-type offense and can play a little D too…..Chills is good at some things, but he will want more….could we trade Ben Gordon or Hinrich for him?
Woody - we are stuck and we will regret it if we aren’t at .500 at the holidays. I don’t see what we gain by bringing someone back who doesn’t get the best out of his players. Larry Drew may get his shot leading this team after all.
Sund- he will be in his ASG rocking chair waiting for the phone to ring and try to fend off the offers. He would rather stay status quo than make a splash. He got lucky with Ray Allen, but didnt’ do much with him anyway and that got him demoted. I don’t seem to hear rave reviews about his previous stops either. He will only do what the ASG tells him to do.
Finally, talking to the media about filling the 8-12 slots on the roster just takes the air out for most of us fans. Find me 2 vets that can produce and will come in here and let Woody dangle 5-10 minutes in their face. They will not go for that. You have to offer a potential starting roster slot.
There is plenty of improvement this team could go through. I didn’t expect Boston-type moves this year or any year, but like Cleveland, it will take some shaking up to be a contender.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
Damn, looks like TJ Ford and the 17th pick are headed to Indiana for Oneal.
By doc
June 24, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
wow, do the raptors have a gm or what? bosh and o’neal together with bargnani. could be ugly if jermaine stays healthy.
By SB
June 24, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
WOW…. The HATE for Josh Smith is just that, HATE. The guy is 22, and you guys are complainig about his maturity( or what ever word you want to use)? What were you doing at 22? better yet, what are your kids doing at 22? To top that off, you want to trade him for Melo or Wallace? I like Melo’s game but this guy just got A DUI, and he punched a guy and ran last season. Wallace is ten years older than Josh and is A powder keg .Again your talking about maturity and you want Melo or Wallacen? It dosn’t make sense. Please answer the questions before you respond to me.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
Damn………There gonna get crushed without TJ Ford…….Remeber how much trouble he gave Atlanta? SO I guess this means Tinsley is out?
How bout Nick Young for Marvin???
By SB
June 24, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
OK……… Back to basketball. The Hawks have to keep Smith. He is the second best player on the team, and again he’s only 22. For those worried about his outside shot, please watch the games and don’t just listen to other people talk. He’s actually solid from 15 to 18 feet. If we are able to get a couple of (leadership qulity) vets in, he’ll improve on his shot selection and basketball IQ. As far as Chill’s goes I like him and would want him on my team, but the truth is it would be hard to pay someone more than 6 mil a year to come off the bench. Pay Josh move him to the three and find A center. Be it trading Marvin to get a Vet big or back into the draft, and getting a vet big in free agency.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
This is sooo Funny!!
By MannyT
June 24, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
SalimFan the Hawks are in control (as is any “home” team) on restricted free agency.
They don’t have to offer either Josh a dime right now.
One of these things will happen.
A. Hawks and Josh’s agent come to agreement on contract. Done and he stays.
B. Most unlikely—there is no agreement on a long term contract here and other teams are scared off. Josh plays for his 1 yr tender and becomes an unrestricted free agent.
C. Other team (likely Philly, not likely Memphis, almost all others just pounding sand) that currently has enough cap room for year 1 of contract offers Josh a deal that he signs. We have 7 days to match. If we match, he’s ours and deal is done. If we don’t match, he’s theirs and deal is done. However, during the 7 day period, we can come up with a sign & trade option that brings some assets here in exchange for Josh. Reality is that is a yuck trade. You won’t get ANY good player unless other team really wants to ditch him AND he’s under contract, not RFA.
Remember Joe Johnson was a major S&T. We gave up 2 picks and Boris Diaw. While you might argue the picks, there was no argument about letting Diaw walk.
When Rashard Lewis got his 9 figure contract, the Sonics got a 2nd round pick and a trade exception.
You get something back if the other team is concerned that you might match the deal. Even then, it’s not usually a valued player, but a better draft pick.
I don’t know that Josh is going anywhere
Hope this helps.
SWOP (Sund Waits for Ownership Permission)
By MannyT
June 24, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
Remember folks, your contract is NOT solely a function of ability/potential. It also reflects what the market will bear given the realities of the available options and the collective bargaining unit.
Remember when it was AMAZING that Magic Johnson signed a $25 million/25 year deal?
Remember 1990s rookies being the highest paid players in the NBA before the rookie scale came into play. (If this is fuzzy, just look at Matty Ice’s deal with the Falcons as a comparison.)
You get what you can when you can. Josh will get paid. If I were the Sixers, I’d push hard to find a way to jam up that deal to make it smelly for the Hawks.
If I’m the Hawks, I’d want to do his deal last. It will restrict the other free agent deals (capwise), so just jump in and get something done with the new guy(s) on July 1, Chills as soon after as possible and Smith last.
While total salary might be a concern, I would not be as worried about the luxury tax. It is applied based on the salaries on the team as of the last day of the regular season. The PEST (Predictive Event Sphere of Truth) sees a mid season trade to dump salary if we are not doing well.
Nice to see some folks are staying on the staff.
Drew may get to be interim coach yet.
WAFFLE
By MannyT
June 24, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
SalimFan The Shelden thing is just wrong, but funny.
He is the anti Big Baby (Glen Davis). Dennis Scott discussed how Davis would have been a lottery pick if he had come out a year sooner. Now he’s only a role player, but he has a ring…and he’s not seen as a bust due to his 2nd round draft status.
You cannot blame Shelden for getting picked 5th. You can give him credit for hooking up with CP. He had some control over making that work. He had no control over being Woody’s footrest.
WAFFLE
By doc
June 24, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
from the looks or it shels is poster child of the nba based on viewings on you tube.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
Manny, Thanks for clearing that up for me. I defnetly agree that the Josh deal should be done last.
I have no problem with Sheldon lol. It’s just wrong the way people Bash him for his game and because he’s about to marry CP. Then Again…... Hehehehehe….
I love SWOP lol. I can see were going to use that one a lot.
BWAF
By Ken Strickland
June 24, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
SALIM FAN-I’ve noticed something about Zaza. When it comes to playing denial DEF, he’s really good. He shows quick feet and good anticipation. He seems to have problems when he’s asked to switch, rotate or position himself to draw charges.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
Doc, I have a theory lol. I think people are actually looking at candace Parker videos. Then they look at the side bar for related videos and what do you see?? Sheldon Williams gets OWNED by RJ lol. What you see a title like that you just HAVE to click it.
And then they post comments like “How’d he end up with her?” or “Man He got lucky”
Then you have his supporters. “He plays in the NBA, He’s making Millions and his fiancee’ is FINE. What are y’all doing with your lives huh?? Stop Hatin’”
I Love it lol.
The fact that everyone probably wants to see that Dunk by Candace is gonna get him a lot of youtube publicity over the next couple of days heh.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
The real youtube star is Smoove. They have this video of him scoring 53 points in a HS All-Star game.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
Sasimfan, I know Marvin is a little Goofy and all, but to trade him for Nick Young would be absolutely INSANE!
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Good to hear that Larry Drew wants to stay. He might get his chace at being be a Head Coach, if we get off to a slow start. Did’nt he want out last year?
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
Ken, I agree Zaza is fine unless he’s on the move. He’s always a step slow on rotations and he doesn’t have josh smith’s athletecisim to make up for it. I think he averages at leat three Illegal screens and three Def. 3 seconds calls a game lol.
Manny, Yeah The hawks could defenetly use a Coordinator of Statistical Analysis like the nets have. He must be a new hire b/c the nets last couple of draft picks have been really bad. Aside from Hassan Adams(Playing Overseas Currently) with Jefferson and Carter there’s no room for a 3rd wheel lol.
BK did a decent job though. I’ll say this, BK PROBABLY left b/c he know that the ASG was not going to let him find a new Head Coach.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
TB Explain to me why? I’m not picking an arguement BTW, I sincerely want to know.
To me, Nick looks like the next Rudy Gay….That’s all i’m sayin’. But I do see your point and I was gonna put a disclaimer on that comment but I forgot lol.
I mean Nick gives up some size, but his offense is a little more explosive than marvin’s if you ask me. I haven’t really seen him play defense though.
By capexpert
June 24, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
“Manny T” You are wrong. The Hawks cannot do a sign&trade if Smith signs a contract offer from Philly. They either match or he goes to Philly. The seven day period is about matching the contract nothing else.If the Hawks players read this blog and Hawksquawk they would think they should be in the D-League. Matt, your hate on Josh Smith is amazing. Josh Smith had the second highest +/- in the league defensively. Go check. This shows not only are you not objective you are a liar.
By HHoops
June 24, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Manny T,
I am on the same page with you. Everything right now is pure speculation on what is going to happen. The Hawks should take their time and weigh each offer, because they are coming for Josh Smith. Go ahead and sign Josh Childress and the necessary role players that are needed to make your team before you do anything with Josh Smith.
I don’t want to imagine the Hawks without Josh Smith, but an opportunity might present itself that is too good to pass up. We need a BIG that can rebound and play defense if we are looking to win a championship! That would allow Horford to play the 4 position. Josh Smith is better @ 4 than @ 3. Maybe we get a better fit by trading him!
Make this trade - Josh Smith for Emeka. MJ would go for this trade and the possibility of getting an exciting player like JS. We add Speedy to make the deal work with the cap. I’m guessing that Emeka’s contract will be slightly higher than JS.
Now the Hawks starters would be(for me) - Bibby, Chill, JJ, Horford, & Emeka. They have Acie, Salim, Marvin, Solomon, & Zaza coming off the bench.
That team can play defense, score and compete with Boston!
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
Salimfan, we dont need any more “younguns” on this squad, while Woody is still at the end of the bench. He cant develop young talent. It’s been PROVEN. The only development I see from our guys came through experience, not coaching. You should know this. Look at ya boy Salim. Theres no way you can tell me that he cant do for us what Eddie House does for Boston. The difference: Doc knows how to use him, Woody does’nt. PERIOD!! End of story.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
Pick #15 Phoenix(from Hawks). I’m so tired of seeing that. We know they have our pick, for crying out loud. Does everyone have to know exactly where the pick came from? lol!! It would really get on my nerves, if it woulda been had a lottery pick. OMG!!!
By MannyT
June 24, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
My bad capexpert you are correct. The offer sheet locks in a match or no match situation.
The sign & trade is essentially the original team signing a player based on terms identified by the new team. For doing this, the original team may get some compensation as mentioned previously. One other correction. The Hawks could let a team w/o cap room into the mix if the agent and the original team come up with a sign & trade to a capped out team. THEN you get better compensation for the RFA.
For example, if the Lakers really want to move Lamar Odom and the Hawks wanted him AND Josh wanted to go to LA, there could be a S&T opportunity. Same could be said for Nuggets & Marcus Camby if he was younger.
The benefit is that the player can get better raises from the original team than from the new team and possibly another year on the contract.
HHoops it is almost impossible to swap a pair of RFAs. Lots of rules to navigate, along with a pair of separate S&T deals. You can ask capexpert if it is possible at all.
SalimFan I could live with a million bucks, Candace Parker, and getting dunked on by RJ. Imagine all the folks he dunked on in HS and college that got no cash or the hot girl.
On the Nick Young thing, I think the Wiz would be happier with Nick at the SG than trading to pay more for Marvin to back up Tough Juice. That deal would be hard to swallow in DC ;-)
Is Young old enough to get playing time on Woody’s team?
BWAF
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
HHoops, ARE YOU OUT OF YOU FREAKIN MIND? Lets just trade him to a team in our division, so he can come in here make us look stupid. That’s ridiculous. I dont care who we can get. If we move him, we better not move him to Miami, Orlando, Charlotte or Washington. And thats on the real!
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
HHoops, ARE YOU OUT OF YOU FREAKIN MIND? Lets just trade him to a team in our division, so he can come in here and make us look stupid. That’s ridiculous. I dont care who we can get. If we move him, we better not move him to Miami, Orlando, Charlotte or Washington. And thats on the real!
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
Trading Smoove to the Bobcats would be like trading Chipper to the Mets. IT AINT HAPPENING!
By david
June 24, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
J Smith’s not going anywhere. It’s just that we could have done it sooner and saved some doe. Chills is very important. I’m worried about this one. This guy is awesome off the bench with his attitude and play. Same coach, same players how much better can we expect to be? We NEEDED a different coach that could develop and bring a different aggressive attitude to the team. Oh well let’s see what happens. We need a stud rebounder/defender that’s young and ALREADY developed. Playing Bibby every second and leaving Salim and Acie on the bench is criminal. Makes me sick.
By terrell barron
June 24, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
Where are all these 7ftrs coming from? I’ve seen at least 6 or 7 on the draft preview show.
By david
June 24, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
We have lost 9 seasons in a row. In a very weak eastern conference. We are hearing we are going to stick with what we have except at the end of the bench. And depend on what? Developing? Who’s going to do the developing? Woodson?? Nuff said. If we are going to expect to be better and not be insane (doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results) we are going to have to get help. Period.
By SalimFan
June 24, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this
David, I feel you dawg. Don’t wory about it. Avery Johnson or Flip Saunders will be in no later than the All-Star break. Woody is going to choke.
TB & Manny, I see your points about Nick Young, and about Marvin (I personally don’t have a problem with Marvin).
Manny, when you put Sheldon’s situation that way, it sounds great lol.
Also, Emecka?? He’s been injured for like Ten years. He hasn’t played a full season yet, just like Sean May. There is not am GM in the league that would initiate that deal. It’s a robbery. Smith’s value is way above Oakafor’s
Let’s be realistic. There are plenty off good serviceable big’s in free agency.
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
Not to Mention that No Inner-confrence Trading is like an un-written rule.
Which is also why if the Josh’s aren’t in the ATL the’ll be in the WEST next season. Sund is at least smart enough to not let that happen.
Unless of couse the dreaded SWOP Takes too damn long and smoove gets poache by other franchises while were waiting around for the BAASG to give the green light.
Question, In oreder for a Sign and Trade deal on a Restricted Free Agent to work, the PLAYER has to agree to the tems of the contract right???
By Matt
June 25, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
SalimFan,
I wasn’t responding to you so much as “Eternal Optimist” up top, who called Smoove our best post defender. I was disputing that point.
By HHoops
June 25, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
O’kay Terrell Barron, I see your point. There are probably better choices than Oakafor that are not in our conference. I am just afraid that if we sign both Josh’s, then we have the same team as this year and we are capped out. We have got to improve our team thru a trade this year. I don’t want to trade either Josh’s, but who can we trade for a BIG and give ourselves a better chance to win a championship?
The Hawks will have to give up a good player to get a BIG that will make the difference! There are some quality BIGS in this years draft, but next year looks like a drop off in quality post players. I think we need to make a move now!
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this
Matt, My bad lol.
OOOHHHH!!!! Check out this GREAT Lock-Down defense by Carmelo hehehehehe. And check out that GREAT Help Defense lol.
George Kerl sure has those boys on the ball hah.
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this
Yeah, Eternal Opimist I like all of your points execpt about Smoove.
Like Matt said, Horford is defently the best one-on-one post defender.
By HawksShockZeWelt
June 25, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this
jack bender: love your blog!
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 2:19 AM | Link to this
Have You guys seen this??
Looks like Sund is bringing in all of his old seatle buddies…..Smells fisy to me. I don’t like it. Seattle Wasn’t THAT GREAT Aside for the 05’ Season with Danny Fortson, Luke Ridnour, Rashard Lewis, Ray Allen, and Vladamir Radmonovic. That’s ONE year out of 13.
Hopefully they won’t desroy the house that Billy built and i’m hoping they will build upon it.
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this
Manny, Looks like you got your wish in Rosenberry. And since Sund is doing this right befor the draft. Also considering the fact that these two guys have been working out potential draftees. One can only assume (more like hope) sund is trying to shake things up and get in on the action.
They might not be stat boys but there as close as were gonna get.
……Just a thought. Were these positions filled when BK was here?? Wow, so BK worked alone?? He gets props for that. JJ,Smoove,Chills,Salim,Acie,Al, and Marvin all by himself….not bad….. Of course I would have done a better job lol.
By FanMangler
June 25, 2008 2:52 AM | Link to this
Trade Josh Smith if you have to, just make sure we keep Al Hartford.
By Reddy8
June 25, 2008 4:23 AM | Link to this
Hey yall personally all this crap about the vets comin to the hawks…. i dont believe in that… i believe getting more young players who can really play this game for example… DURANT…. JAMES… MELO…. and yall are crazy about giving Bibby away… he came in the hawks roster mid-season and DEFINTELY shows that he can be the point guard for the hawks…. with joe n smith also holford…. to be honest… the hawks needs to resign the joshs…. BUT RELEASE ZAZA or trade him for a player thats pretty good for example like bynum or perkins … he will make an impact on the team… jermaine o neal is out of the question and also i dont want sheed comin here with all those techs… techs can cost a game…. the hawks needs to resign stoudimare hes an AMAZING 3 point shooter…. acie law is great but he hasnt impressed me yet… but yet he is improvin… j smooth has been an impact since he came into the NBA j chill has shown that he is the best 6th man in my opinion… also yall talking about giving marvin away? no way… marvin has made HUGE shots sometimes and he gives us size… also rebounding plus he is still improvin…. and also he is young… he may be the 2nd pick but 2nd pick is still very good….he is from UNC anyone know how many stars from UNC became a go to guy in the nba… SO MANY to name jordan carter stackhouse and much more…. so i would like this team to put bibby and joe at G smith and holford at F and put perkins or bynum at C with jchill stoud law marvin…backing up… with few of a good to alright players then we’re good to go… because Bynum adds up size… blocks… he did get good stats when started this season.. til he torn his knee or whatever… perkins gives us size… power… and inside scoring… the dalembart trade… i doubt he will help us cuz hes kinda a lil older too… I.A from Philly nawww… not for us… we dont need too many stars on our team we already have like 8 players 9 players that plays good… i believe with perkins or bynum and keepin both joshs bibby joe holford stoud acie marvin j chill we will be one of the tops in the nba if they play team ball… who knows possiblity winning the championship finally … ATL never had a championship brought home and i think perkins and bynum are the missing piece…. if any disagreement or agreement just email me at whtgangstathugboi@yahoo.com
By Reddy8
June 25, 2008 4:25 AM | Link to this
Hey yall personally all this crap about the vets comin to the hawks…. i dont believe in that… i believe getting more young players who can really play this game for example… DURANT…. JAMES… MELO…. and yall are crazy about giving Bibby away… he came in the hawks roster mid-season and DEFINTELY shows that he can be the point guard for the hawks…. with joe n smith also holford…. to be honest… the hawks needs to resign the joshs…. BUT RELEASE ZAZA or trade him for a player thats pretty good for example like bynum or perkins … he will make an impact on the team… jermaine o neal is out of the question and also i dont want sheed comin here with all those techs… techs can cost a game…. the hawks needs to resign stoudimare hes an AMAZING 3 point shooter…. acie law is great but he hasnt impressed me yet… but yet he is improvin… j smooth has been an impact since he came into the NBA j chill has shown that he is the best 6th man in my opinion… also yall talking about giving marvin away? no way… marvin has made HUGE shots sometimes and he gives us size… also rebounding plus he is still improvin…. and also he is young… he may be the 2nd pick but 2nd pick is still very good….he is from UNC anyone know how many stars from UNC became a go to guy in the nba… SO MANY to name jordan carter stackhouse and much more…. so i would like this team to put bibby and joe at G smith and holford at F and put perkins or bynum at C with jchill stoud law marvin…backing up… with few of a good to alright players then we’re good to go… because Bynum adds up size… blocks… he did get good stats when started this season.. til he torn his knee or whatever… perkins gives us size… power… and inside scoring… the dalembart trade… i doubt he will help us cuz hes kinda a lil older too… I.A from Philly nawww… not for us… we dont need too many stars on our team we already have like 8 players 9 players that plays good… i believe with perkins or bynum and keepin both joshs bibby joe holford stoud acie marvin j chill we will be one of the tops in the nba if they play team ball… who knows possiblity winning the championship finally … ATL never had a championship brought home and i think perkins and bynum are the missing piece…. if any disagreement or agreement just email me at whtgangstathugboi@yahoo.com
By Reddy8
June 25, 2008 4:35 AM | Link to this
BY THE WAY WE NEED AVERY JOHNSON… WOODY ISNT A BAD COACH… HE JUST MAKE BAD DECISION… BUT HE IS A GOOD COACH…
By Ken Strickland
June 25, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
DAVID-your comments made me wonder exactly when did the SAASG take BK’s power to make decisions away from him. We know they wouldn’t allow him to fire Woodson. I wonder if they also prevented him from resigning Smoove last yr. I find it hard to believe BK wouldn’t have seen the wisdom of signing him early and preventing the situation we have now.
By Melvin
June 25, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
Article from hoopshype/world. I think this may end the JSmith resigning debate…
Josh Smith and the Hawks
Late last week rumors surfaced that the Hawks might not be willing to pay Josh Smith this summer and that he might land in Philly as a result. Let’s be clear on this, though. Smith is a restricted free agent and the Hawks will match any offer he receives. It’s true they would prefer not to go over $11 million, but if they have to do it to keep him they will.
What the Hawks are really concerned about, more than just what they pay Smith, is how much it means they wind up having to pay Joe Johnson, who can opt out in two years, and Al Horford, whose contract will be up in two seasons, as well. Of course, there’s a lot of basketball to be played between now and then, and if the Hawks emerge as one of the top teams in the conference between now and then it gets to be a lot easier to start paying guys the big bucks.
By Melvin
June 25, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
The Portland Trail Blazers have agreed to a deal with the New Orleans Hornets to acquire the 27th pick in Thursday’s NBA draft for cash considerations, a Blazers source told ESPN.com.
You mean to tell me the Hawks couldn’t do the same? How much could the 27th pick be worth? Portland already has a 1st round pick and they will be over the limit if they sign all their draftees… We need to be on the phone them trying to make a deal…. Man, they are an organization on a mission…
By newkid
June 25, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
In professional team sports, when one couples visionary leadership with available financial resources, here’s what one gets:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3459658
It often appears that our side has very much of neither.
By Ken Strickland
June 25, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Allow me to offer a trade suggestion that just might solve all of our weaknesses and make us a title contender this yr, depending on Woodson of course.
First, we do a sign and trade with Philly. We send them JSmith(signed for about 12M), MWilliiams($4.466M) and Speedy’s contract($6.306M)totaling $22.772M.
Secondly, they send us Iguodala(signed for about 12M) and Dalembert($10.251M) totaling 12.251.
Dalembert would give us a DEF presence in the middle, and he averaged a double double and 2.3BPG(Smoove’s avg BPG was 3.8). Horford would replace Smoove at PF and would also give us a likely double double. His overall numbers should increase playing PF since he won’t be overmatched size and height wise most nights.
Iguodala’s shooting percentage(.456) is very close to Marvins(.462), he avg’s 3 more APG, about the same RPG (5.4 vs Marvins 5.8)and 5 more PPG. His real value will be his superior ballhandling and passing ability over Marvin, his ability to create his own shot, his better DEF ability and his ability to hit 3pt shots.
I’m not saying Philly would go for this, but it would certainly be worth a try, although it might require some adjustments. This would also be a better deal for us in the long run. With Speedy’s contract off the books, and Bibby’s $14M contract coming off after this season, we could easily afford to resign JJ and even Zaza, if we chose to do so.
With Iguodala and Dalembert, our OFF, DEF and rebounding would be greatly improved without slowing us down. With 3 long range shooters(Iggy, JJ and Bibby), who can create their own shots, we’d be a much better halfcourt team. I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HEAR YOUR OPINIONS ON THIS.
By MannyT
June 25, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
I doubt the ASG said you cannot sign Smith. I would expect them to say what they were willing to pay. When that negotiation did not work out, they made a decision to roll the dice.
Given their love of Woody and Smith’s ups and downs, I could see them waiting it out. If he had a horrible last season, everyone would have said let him walk. Good thing we didn’t lock him up.
Besides, while the team has the power of RFA, both Joshes are locked up as long as we are willing to pay the going rate. Aside from mid-level exceptions that might be interesting to Chills from a championship contending team, only a few teams need a forward and have enough cap room to make you pay attention.
This is the best time for this situation. Without draft picks, it is easier to focus on resolving free agency.
SalimFan all I know about Rosenberry is that he looks like he hangs out with George Hamilton—major tan. Reading the bio, I don’t see anything that leads me to think he’s in that statistical analysis branch of sports.
Standard deviation of PAIN.
By MannyT
June 25, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
Ken I am not sure it is easy to make that deal happen even if they are interested. When you have a pair of RFAs, I believe you have to have separate sign & trades to move them.
Aside from the technicalities, pretend you are a fan or employee of the 76ers. Why in the world would this deal be remotely appealing.
Your GaTech 1 yr wonder, Thad Young, is their SF of tomorrow, so they don’t need Marvin for more $$. There is no replacement for Dalambert in that deal so they now have a big hole in the middle. They also lose their best player and take on 2 years of Speedy’s contract that insurance WILL NOT pay for because he is currently not playing.
It is easier for them to move Willie Green and offer Smith a max contract.
I would put it in a similar category of moving in with Jay-Z and Beyonce. They break up and you stay with Jay-Z. Did I mention that you are not gay, dislike hip-hop, and he won’t let you live off his cash.
If they did that deal the Philly GM gets fired the next day.
Cheese steak PAIN
By I.MUS WRITE
June 25, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
There wont be a sign and trade involving Josh Smith…… yep! he’s here for the long haul…..
Come on -I know we coulda got J.Oneal for Chillz and ZAZA…… then we could have picked up Roger Mason jr. and put Solo in to take ZAZA’s minutes.
I think the best big out there that we can afford is F.Elson also if we get rid of salim -we should get Mason or Hayes
Reddy8- How are we gonna get Bynum or Perkins,neither of those guys will be changing area codes
By HHoops
June 25, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Ken Strichland, I think you have an interesting proposal. But, I don’t think it will happen. Josh Smith brings too much excitment to the Hawks to let him go for anything less than another BIG name player. If you were talking Carmello for Josh Smith and then the Hawks trade Marvin for a Big, I could see that happening.
Don’t you think that the Hawks are really close to being great and Josh Smith is one of the big reasons? The Hawks have to get this one right!
A lot of people gave BK a lot of grief for his decisions. Well, now it is Rick Sund’s turn. The Hawks could be serious contenders next year if Sund makes the right decisions to add to what BK started!
By Delive
June 25, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Simple answer. He has improved his game in all areas over each year. Yes there is some inconsistency, but even Joe has off days. He needs to be retained. He is worth the cost.
By MannyT
June 25, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
I agree that Portland is a well run franchise, but let’s put the business side of this in perspective.
What else draws the sports dollar in Portland? Oregon is known as a big track & field state. There are no other major professional teams in the state.
Let’s toss on top of that there is one owner in the NBA that can make the Cubillionaire look like a guy in need of cash…that is Paul Allen.
I’ll spend his cash over every other sports owner, 8 days a week.
Portland bought a 1st round pick. I am confident that they will be trading at least one of those picks to get a vet. You should have a deal in mind when buying a pick.
Our fiscal concerns within ownership are most likely about the buyout needed to settle with Belkin one the dust settles. Remember Ando’s quest for the partner with at least $150 million to invest?
I do expect us to have some roster changes. A draft pick isn’t necessary to do those deals. We can check back with Sund and his newly hired posse in 4-6 weeks for review.
If nothing significant has happened, then we can be upset. Right now, we can prep, but we cannot sign anyone. Thursday night, the HOT DEALS NOW sign comes on at the Krispy Kreme.
Portland has good CRAP and cash.
We’ve got hope to lose the PAIN.
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Miami might take Mayo at #2. I think its a great pick myself, considering the fact that Marion did’nt opt out. Mayo, Wade, Marion, Haslem. Pretty good lineup. Do yall consider Mayo a reach at #2? If you do, WHY? After all, he was the most coveted player in the nation coming out of High School.
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Miami might take Mayo at #2. I think its a great pick myself, considering the fact that Marion did’nt opt out. Mayo, Wade, Marion, Haslem. Pretty good lineup. Do yall consider Mayo a reach at #2? If you do, WHY? After all, he was the most coveted player in the nation coming out of High School. They still need a center though.
By Ken Strickland
June 25, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
MANNYT-you had my attention until you referenced Beyonce and JayZ. If I moved in with them, you can bet your AZZ they would break up. I’d plant drugs everywhere but in his jockey shorts, and then notify the DEA. After they hauled him off, I’d comfort his distraught wife, ALL NIGHT LONG, AND BEYOND.
Now, back to reality. I realized adding Speedy’s contract would be a stretch. That’s why I said there might be a need for adjustments. I considered using Zaza instead of Speedy, but the salaries would be off by about $1.785M. Maybe a future draft pick and/or cash would suffice.
I don’t think TYoung would be a deterrent. If Young is their SF of the future they will definitely have to move Iggy, since they play the same position. Young won’t likely force Iggy to the bench by outperforming him. They just might welcome Marvin until his contract ends. By then, Young should be ready to take over and Marvin could be traded, or used off the bench like Chills. Or, they could just move Marvin, or Young, immediately after completing the trade.
As far as Philly fans are concerned, I believe they’d be just as enamered watching Smoove and his natural talents develop as we are. They also might be more appreciative of Marvin’s skills than Atlata fans, especially if he’s properly coached and made a priority in their OFF. Besides, Philly fans seem to have a higher basketball IQ overall than most Atlanta fans. I wouldn’t discount the trade possibilities on this account.
However, you are probably correct about the difficulties that could be presented trying to do a Sign and trade with 2 RFA’s. But, that’s what Sund, with his vast experience, is getting paid to do. He is supposed find ways to overcome difficulties and make trades that will improve the team. And this trade would definitely improve the Hawks and possibly take us to the next level by making us one of the elite teams in the East.
By AM SIXERS GURU FAN
June 25, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
THE HAWKS WILL LOOSE J.SMITH FOR THE SIMPLE FACT, THAT SIXERS ARE GOING TO FRONTLOAD JOSH SMITH WITH THE 11MILLION PERIOD. SIXERS WILL NOT PAY A.IGUODALA THE 11.2 HE JUST TURNED DOWN LAST YEAR. MY ADVISE SIGN & TRADE J.SMITH (11MILL), & J.CHILDRESS(4-6MIL) WITH HAWKS SECOND ROUNDER, FOR A.IGUODALA(8-11MIL SIGN & TRADE),PLUS 8MIL CASH, & SIXERS #1-16PICK. SIXERS WON’T REFUSE. HAWKS WILL GET IGGY & 8MIL TO SHOP FOR A REASONABLE PF IN FREE AGENCY, PLUS A FIRST ROUND 16 PICK. RATHER RISK NOTHIN OR LIL IN RETURN, HAWKS WILL BE SATISFIED WITH IGGY, 8 MIL CASH FOR A REASONABLE PF FREE AGENT, PLUS THEY’LL HAVE A #1-16 PICK. SIXERS GETS JOSH, WHILE BOTH TEAMS DON’T MISS A BEAT. PLUS HAWKS CAN MANUEVER IN 09. HOPE YOU CAN GET THIS TO MANAGEMENT ASAP. JUST THINK IT’S ALL OR NOTHING FOR JOSH!
By AM SIXERS GURU FAN
June 25, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
THE HAWKS WILL LOOSE J.SMITH FOR THE SIMPLE FACT, THAT SIXERS ARE GOING TO FRONTLOAD JOSH SMITH WITH THE 11MILLION PERIOD. SIXERS WILL NOT PAY A.IGUODALA THE 11.2 HE JUST TURNED DOWN LAST YEAR. MY ADVISE SIGN & TRADE J.SMITH (11MILL), & J.CHILDRESS(4-6MIL) WITH HAWKS SECOND ROUNDER, FOR A.IGUODALA(8-11MIL SIGN & TRADE),PLUS 8MIL CASH, & SIXERS #1-16PICK. SIXERS WON’T REFUSE. HAWKS WILL GET IGGY & 8MIL TO SHOP FOR A REASONABLE PF IN FREE AGENCY, PLUS A FIRST ROUND 16 PICK. RATHER RISK NOTHIN OR LIL IN RETURN, HAWKS WILL BE SATISFIED WITH IGGY, 8 MIL CASH FOR A REASONABLE PF FREE AGENT, PLUS THEY’LL HAVE A #1-16 PICK. SIXERS GETS JOSH, WHILE BOTH TEAMS DON’T MISS A BEAT. PLUS HAWKS CAN MANUEVER IN 09. HOPE YOU CAN GET THIS TO MANAGEMENT ASAP. JUST THINK IT’S ALL OR NOTHING FOR JOSH!
By AM SIXERS GURU FAN
June 25, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
THE HAWKS WILL LOOSE J.SMITH FOR THE SIMPLE FACT, THAT SIXERS ARE GOING TO FRONTLOAD JOSH SMITH WITH THE 11MILLION PERIOD. SIXERS WILL NOT PAY A.IGUODALA THE 11.2 HE JUST TURNED DOWN LAST YEAR. MY ADVISE SIGN & TRADE J.SMITH (11MILL), & J.CHILDRESS(4-6MIL) WITH HAWKS SECOND ROUNDER, FOR A.IGUODALA(8-11MIL SIGN & TRADE),PLUS 8MIL CASH, & SIXERS #1-16PICK. SIXERS WON’T REFUSE. HAWKS WILL GET IGGY & 8MIL TO SHOP FOR A REASONABLE PF IN FREE AGENCY, PLUS A FIRST ROUND 16 PICK. RATHER RISK NOTHIN OR LIL IN RETURN, HAWKS WILL BE SATISFIED WITH IGGY, 8 MIL CASH FOR A REASONABLE PF FREE AGENT, PLUS THEY’LL HAVE A #1-16 PICK. SIXERS GETS JOSH, WHILE BOTH TEAMS DON’T MISS A BEAT. PLUS HAWKS CAN MANUEVER IN 09. HOPE YOU CAN GET THIS TO MANAGEMENT ASAP. JUST THINK IT’S ALL OR NOTHING FOR JOSH!
By AM SIXERS GURU FAN
June 25, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
THE HAWKS WILL LOOSE J.SMITH FOR THE SIMPLE FACT, THAT SIXERS ARE GOING TO FRONTLOAD JOSH SMITH WITH THE 11MILLION PERIOD. SIXERS WILL NOT PAY A.IGUODALA THE 11.2 HE JUST TURNED DOWN LAST YEAR. MY ADVISE SIGN & TRADE J.SMITH (11MILL), & J.CHILDRESS(4-6MIL) WITH HAWKS SECOND ROUNDER, FOR A.IGUODALA(8-11MIL SIGN & TRADE),PLUS 8MIL CASH, & SIXERS #1-16PICK. SIXERS WON’T REFUSE. HAWKS WILL GET IGGY & 8MIL TO SHOP FOR A REASONABLE PF IN FREE AGENCY, PLUS A FIRST ROUND 16 PICK. RATHER RISK NOTHIN OR LIL IN RETURN, HAWKS WILL BE SATISFIED WITH IGGY, 8 MIL CASH FOR A REASONABLE PF FREE AGENT, PLUS THEY’LL HAVE A #1-16 PICK. SIXERS GETS JOSH, WHILE BOTH TEAMS DON’T MISS A BEAT. PLUS HAWKS CAN MANUEVER IN 09. HOPE YOU CAN GET THIS TO MANAGEMENT ASAP. JUST THINK IT’S ALL OR NOTHING FOR JOSH!
By ILL-Logical
June 25, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
A modest set of suggestions:
1.) Allow ZaZa to regain the starting position he lost due to a training camp injury- if he can play 20 minutes a night in his contract year with the zeal he showed in game 5.
2.)Move Marvin to the 2 and have him back up JJ-this gives the second unit scoring power in the short term and insurance when JJ leaves in two years.
3.) Al becomes the starting 4 and the back up 1. Solo then becomes the back up 4 and reserve 5.
.) Sign Kwame Brown -I know but he is an unrestricted free agent and can be had for the veteran exception. He can either revive his NBA career and at 7 ft, 260 lbs provide some vetern muscle or be the newer cheaper Lo Wright. I am betting on the former.Net net, there are no major financial impacts and team depth is greatly improved without greatly disrupting “team chemistry”.
Thoughts?
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Were in trouble Salimfan, He brought in 2 guys that were with Seattle and Charlotte.
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Were in trouble Salimfan, He brought in 2 guys that were with Seattle and Charlotte.
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Were in trouble Salimfan, He brought in 2 guys that were with Seattle and Charlotte. That’s not good. Look at their past drafts, if you dont beleive me.
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Sheriff wants Shaq’s badges back after Kobe rap
Did you guys see the new rick Sund interview??
Manny, I just meant that Rosenberry scouted talent…….I’d still rather have a stat boy though lol.
By Ben
June 25, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
SalimFan, I disagree about KG. The guy didn’t have the most amazing playoffs ever. You just gotta keep him taking his fadeaways and he’ll eventually go cold.
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
TB, I know what you mean. This is NOT good CRAP.
Ben, You’re right. I had forgotten how much the media got on KG in our series for taking fadeaways and open jumpers instead of going to the hole. In that regard, our bugs actually did a good job of forcing him out of his swwet spots in the post.
By MannyT
June 25, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
terrell your post is a classic example why being a GM is much more art than science.
Do you go with the hot talent (them-Mayo, us-Marvin Williams) or need (them-big man/Beasley, us-Paul/Deron Williams)?
Miami needs a center, but they would like a player to pair with Wade. Which one takes priority?
If we still had the 15th pick in the draft, would we get a center or the best available player?
It’s a gut call. Never an always answer. Do you pick Michael Jordan over Sam Bowie if you already have Clyde Drexler?
Do you pick Darko Milicic over Chris Kaman, Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony or D Wade?
It’s tough to evaluate a pick until 3-4 years later.
WAF
By Pete
June 25, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
Trade Josh Childress & Acie Law to Seattle And Hope Brooke Lopez Falls to You With The Number 4th Pick.
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
It’s all good HHops. I like both Joshes, and dont want to see either of them go. But you have to give up something to get something. We’re just going to have to wait until other teams come calling. And then start looking at our options. Who knows? Philly might not even sign Smoove to an offer sheet. Rumors, Rumors, Rumors!!! Those NBA analyst get all of this mess started, and we go in a frenzy. lol!!! No more trade Rumors about the Hawks for me. We’ll no something for sure when Free-Agency come along. Will the ASG step up and make something happen? Will they resign the Joshes? Will they go out and sign some free agents?(big and shooter), Will they do a sign and trade? Or will they just prove to be the BASG, THAT WE THOUGHT THEY WERE? Word to my boy Denny Green? lol!!
By Juan
June 25, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
The Hawks Need to Trade Josh Smith And Acie Law For Iguodala And Philly 16th Pick In 1st Round.
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
MannyT, Chills “aint worried bout” no championship right now. Boy wants to get PAID, just like everbody else. This is his 1st opportunity to get the big bucks. I dont think he’s thinking championship just yet. In other words, He wont leave Atlanta for some mid-level exception. I can guarantee you that. I had to quote my grandfather on that one. lol! He use to always say, “we aint worried bout no Celtics”. But Larry Legend would always get the last laugh.
By ZULU
June 25, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
You should work for the U.N. with your ability to get the comments flowing. Wonder why the Hawks leadership needed a G.M. with all of the experts available in Hawk Land.
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Manny, there’s not a center worth taking at #2. They’ll either take Beasley or Mayo at #2, or trade down for a center. More than likely they’ll do one of the previous 2.
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
Sixersfan, WE HAVE NO DRAFT PICKS!
By MannyT
June 25, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
SalimFan That Mark Bradley article was online on Monday.
I’m sure we could have Rosenberry and a standard hoops deviant on staff if the GM sees the value of that type of person.
ILL While Kwame’s career is off track, I doubt he has fallen to LoWright level yet. I can see reluctance to sign him due to attitude. Remember when he refused to come into playoff game with the Wiz? That sort of foolishness will follow you for a lot longer than making playing mistakes.
It’s amusing to see the pre-draft bidding war for Jermaine O’Neal. He’s got a big cap number for a guy that has a bad knee.
Only a day and a half ‘til Sund signs Roger Maris (#61)…who will only play in summer league!
WAF
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Wrong Blog, but the NL East is horrendous! 16 losses no wins for the NL East teams combined. Philly has lost 6 in a row. Florida 2, NY 2,
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Wrong Blog, but the NL East is horrendous! 16 losses no wins for the NL East teams combined. Philly has lost 6 in a row. Florida 2, NY 2, Atl 2, Was 2. PATHETIC!
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
My bad. Washington 4.
By sweetd
June 25, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
I would say keep both Josh Smith and Josh Childress. Trade Marvin Williams and Speedy Claxton to Seattle for Johan Petro, Donyell Marshall and Damien Wilkins. Starting 5 - Bibby(G), JJ(SG), JSmith(SF), Al(PF) and Johan(C).
By SnuffySmith
June 25, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
If Josh Smith wants the market value for his services then let him depart. Smith looked completely lost in Boston in game 7 of Atlantas opening round playoff series with the world champion Celtics. Smith was not the main reason the Hawks lost game 7 to Boston, but he looked terrible and totally, certainly most definitely not worth $11 million per season. There is a price tag to be paid for Smith and I believe Smith deserves a raise for helping the Hawks play well against Boston. But maybe just a reasonable salary where the Hawks can compromise without breaking the bank to succuumb to the demands of Smiths Agent. I say dont pay Smith $11 mil until he demonstrates that he is worth $11 mil. When he unequivocally and unilaterally shows beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is worth $11 mil then certainly pay him $11 mil, but until then just pay him what he is worth and not a cent more.
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
With the 1st pick of the of the 2008 NBA supplemental Draft, the Atlanta Hawks select Acie Law(PG Texas A/M). He had an off year in his 1st year in the Developmental League due to injury and lack of playing time due to his coaches stubbornness. But he has the speed and quickness to get to the whole and finish, or dish to one of Atlantas talented wing players. Maybe he can stay healthy this year and show his new Head Coach (Mike Woodson), that he deserves to be on the floor. Acie Law should be a solid pick for the Hawks in rd #3. With their next pick of the NBA supplemental draft, the Atlanta Hawks select Solomon Jones(F/C South Florida). This is a kid with a lot of potential. But he’s had his problem’s ever since he was drafted by a coach who did’nt trust young players. When he was given the opportunity he showed flashes of what he could do. Which is blocking shots, and rebounding the basketball. All NBA teams are looking for that type of player to fill out their roster. All he has to do is put on a little weight and he’s going to be a solid backup PF or Center in this league. Lets just hope he gets his opportunity in Atlanta. That team could really use a solid backup PF/C to give Smith and Horford some rest. Zaza Pachulia had that role but for some unknown reason he has degressed. Most fans say its coaching, and with the lack of development I’ve seen in former #2 pick Marvin Williams, I can believe it. And with their final pick in the NBA supplemental draft, the Atlanta Hawks select Salim Stoudemire(SG Arizona). This guy can plum shoot the basketball. He had the best 3pt% coming out of Arizona, even better than the Golden boy, JJ Reddick. A recent injury kept him sidelined for the most part, but when given the min., he can come in and give your team a needed spark off the bench. He proved it when his teams backup PG went down with a wrist injury. The guy came in and did everything that was asked of him. Sure he missed some shots, but you would expect that from streak shooters. They have to get settled in and find their groove. But for some unknown reason his Head Coach would pull him, as soon as he missed a couple of shots. Why? Who knows? A lot of fans tell me that he and his coach just did’nt really like each other. I dont know if thats true or not, but hopefully they can patch it up this year, for the better of the team. Salim sorta reminds me of Eddie House, and you see what he did for the Celtics this year. All in all, pretty good draft for Atlanta. Hopefully they found their future PG, a serviceable big, and a shooter. That’s what all the Atlanta fans are crying for. Now they need to add a few vets in free-agency, and they should be contenders in the East for years to come.
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
If smoove is so bad then why is his efficancy rating #37 in the leauge??? Thats the highest out of anyone on our team. THAT INCLUDES JOE JOHNSON.
TB, I like those picks lol….. The first two will defenetly be in Atlatna next year but that kid from Arizona you were talking about….not so sure.
By MannyT
June 25, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Disclosure #1 I am in the KEEP the JOSHES camp as long as it is affordable. They are both good pieces of the puzzle, but neither is the #1 building block.
Disclosure #2 I love math.
I’m not knocking the use of stats to help you, but Hollinger’s PER stats are not the be all and end all. Note that Leon Powe finished 22nd. How many teams do you think would take him before ANY player on the Atlanta roster even if salary is not a factor?
JJ has a lower rating for 2 primary reasons. One, because Woody won’t give him a rest. Being #2 in the league in avg minutes hurts your PER.
If Woody understood managing his minutes in Nov-Jan, it might be understandable to work him hard in the stretch run.
From Holliman’s PER explanation
Bear in mind that this rating is not the final, once-and-for-all answer for a player’s accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for players — such as Bruce Bowen and Jason Collins — who are defensive specialists but don’t get many blocks or steals.
Two, JJ is our top on ball perimeter defender. He will rarely get a weakside block or steal because that means he has left the primary perimeter threat. Josh often gets weakside defensive stats as he moves over to help on other players.
While not as dominant a reason, JJ is also our offensive bailout guy. It’s his job to chuck up something when the shot clock is low. Do you let him shoot it while covered or prefer he pass it to one of the other offensive talents (while covered) with the shot clock running down?
Based on PER, Carl Landry would have run away with Rookie of the Year. His PER is WAY above #2 Thad Young (as well as Josh Smith’s)
Choice 2 - Take any rookie you want from this past season. How many folks take Landry over Horford, Scola, Thornton and Durant?
If you let the numbers fool you, there is probably PAIN and a pie in the face behind door #3.14159!
By Sautee
June 25, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
MannyT
I’ll assume that door #3.14159 is round.
Speaking of round doors, maybe we should have traded J. Smoove for Frodo while he still had the Ring.
No, not THAT ring, KG. ;-)
And yes there is PAIN in the numbers. But maybe some good CRAP, too.
And if you keep looking at them you become number.
Hurry, July 1st!
By Najeh Davenpoop
June 25, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
I’m a Josh Smith fan, but if Hollinger’s PER thinks he’s the best player on the Hawks, then he’s probably not.
Sautee, if we wanted a hobbit on the team, we should have just kept Dan Dickau.
By MannyT
June 25, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Sautee If we had made the deal for the pretty ring, imagine what would happen when Woody got it in his hands!
Civilization ends because the team would not play defense like the Pistons.
WAFFLE ‘til the end.
By HHoops
June 25, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
1st Question - Should the Hawks propose a trade to a team, that has a high lottery pick in this years draft & that needs an outside shooter, so the Hawks could draft a BIG?
My thoughts are the Hawks could use Marvin and Speedy to get a young BIG.
2nd Question - Should the Hawks also propose a trade to another draft lottery team that needs a point guard, so the Hawks could draft another point guard.
My thoughts here are to offer Bibby, who is proven, or Acie for a point guard.
By hawkfan
June 25, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
this was the funniest thing i saw on youtube:
LosAngelesLakers4Eva (3 hours ago)
kobe bryant has proven himself that he was a loser after the finals i can translate that to a trade its time to trade kobe hes been on this team for 12 darn stressful years u know hes starting to become old now at age 30 we just gotta trade him right now so we can get a young talented player for our future if we trade him when hes like 36 nobody would want him I bet so nows a fine great time u never know lets trade kobe now to the hawks for a young talented al horford.
LosAngelesLakers4Eva (3 hours ago)
Al horford who really is a great player he has a really good future ahead of him and he can rebound the basketball like dwight howard but u can compare al horford to tim duncan al horford is the next tim duncan for real man he will hes just gonna get better every year al horford can lead us to 4 championships like tim duncan has done with the spurs u never know when u get this guy now al horford is better then kobe lets trade kobe bryant to the hawks for al horford now please!!
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
MannyT, Thanks for the explanation. That’s good CRAP. I see yor point.
Just trying to alleviate some of the haterism smoove was getting lol.
I see that JJ’s stats are a lot better thanthe shooting guards in front of him……..yes is’s a PAIN
By hawkfan
June 25, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
this was the funniest thing i saw on youtube:
LosAngelesLakers4Eva (3 hours ago)
kobe bryant has proven himself that he was a loser after the finals i can translate that to a trade its time to trade kobe hes been on this team for 12 darn stressful years u know hes starting to become old now at age 30 we just gotta trade him right now so we can get a young talented player for our future if we trade him when hes like 36 nobody would want him I bet so nows a fine great time u never know lets trade kobe now to the hawks for a young talented al horford.
LosAngelesLakers4Eva (3 hours ago)
Al horford who really is a great player he has a really good future ahead of him and he can rebound the basketball like dwight howard but u can compare al horford to tim duncan al horford is the next tim duncan for real man he will hes just gonna get better every year al horford can lead us to 4 championships like tim duncan has done with the spurs u never know when u get this guy now al horford is better then kobe lets trade kobe bryant to the hawks for al horford now please!!
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this
Waht do you guys think abut the Hawks rounding up Unproven Free Agent Talent like: Gerald Green or Shannon Brown: Their not the BEST shooter but the’re certainly bigger than Salim or Thicker than J-Rich.
Also Waht you you say to us trying to ge Mike Miller from memphis in our bench wothout giving up anything. Like that Gasol deal.
Here’s my Idea. The hawks buy a 1st Rd pick from someone and Deal it for Miller.
By MannyT
June 25, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this
HHoops Just my opinion. This team is full of young fellas (and Bibby). You need a few laps around the track before you get into the season ending chase.
1. No. Marvin’s a mid range shooter, not a 3 point shooter. There is no advantage at all to taking Speedy. If a young, unproven big center is that important to the Hawks, pull a Paul Allen and buy the pick. We have the roster space. If you look at some of the teams with a bucket of draft picks, they will deal. Who wants a team with 5 or 6 rookies on it!
2. no There is no advantage to going backwards in the PG world. Unless you believe you are getting the next Paul/Deron Williams, you probably won’t make the playoffs by ditching Bibby for a rookie PG. AC didn’t get a real chance to develop. Why bail on him and his (cap friendly) rookie salary?
We only need free agents this summer. Stop getting sucked in by the media hype around the draft.
Free agent acquisition is good CRAP for the summer.
By MannyT
June 25, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
You guys are fighting to get into the draft.
Denver has opted out.
WAF
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
This means that Denver is about to do some dealing. No way, they start next season with the same roster.
By Mike is back
June 25, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
I see Roy Hibbert name is starting to be branded about in the draft, sorry SUND but the price for moving in to steal Hibbert has just went up. The Bobcats acquire the 20th pick from Denver after working out Hibbert. I said all alone this guy is the sleeper in the draft, because he rated so low. Not that Hibbert skills will blow you away, but to get a 5 yr senior that’s a legit 7’2” 275 pounds Big that can block shot and score in the post anywhere in the twenties in the draft is a STEALLLLLLLLLL. Don’t forget his career is very similar to Big Baby, had he come out last season he would have been a top ten pick.
I look for him to go from 17th to 26th in the draft, so Sund get to work on those serviceable FAs Big. The cost will be too high to steal a quality Big, the rest of Bigs are projects. Yes guys I agree, anyway you look at it, it’s PAIN, PAIN, PAIN, AND MORE PAINNNNNNNNN.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Sautee
June 25, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
SalimFan
I’m afraid that Memphis would want more than a Happy Meal for Miller (That’s what Barkley said LA gave for Gasol).
As far as for the bench, I’d rather have Miller start than Goofy any day. More range. Better defense.
I like the idea, but don’t know what we could give them that they would see as fair compensation.
I’m NOT excited by Green or Brown. Got another color?
And which cash cow will they milk to come up with cash for a 1st rounder? Remember, this is BAASG.
By Ken Strickland
June 25, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
MANNYT-you are a hard man to argue against. You really have your hands on the pulse of what’s going on in the NBA. I really respect a person that takes the time to research info.
This whole JSmith situation might be out of ownerships hands. If a team offers Smoove a front loaded offer, we’ll likely be forced to do a sign and trade. We successfully did the same thing with JJ’s contract. I just hope it’s a team with something to offer that will fill 1 or 2 of our needs. If Philly trys to force a sign and trade by making a front loaded offer, they know they’ll have to give up a valuable player or two in order to pull it off.
To be honest, I think ownership didn’t lock Smoove up last yr because they didn’t planned to resign him. At the time, they didn’t expect this team to come together so successfully and make the playoffs. They certainly didn’t expect them to extend the Celtics to 7gms. After seeing how the fans responded to this team down the stretch, they might be willing to extend themselves financially to resign its key players. If we can start the season the way we ended it, and maintain fan support, ownership will realize the bottomline, MO MONEY, MO MONEY, MO MONEY.
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
The Sixers have made qualifying offers to Iggy and Louis Williams. And what’s up with MJ buying draft picks? He’ll just screw it up and draft another Kwame Brown, Adam Morrison, or Sean May. lol!!!
By terrell barron
June 25, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Oneal to Toronto for Ford, Nesterovich, and the 17th pick. DAMN!!
By Ramon
June 25, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this
Salim, I’ve wanted to see Miller in a Hawks jersey for a long time. I would trade Marvin for him (same salary range) in a second. I think resigning Smoove and adding Miller would open things up for everyone. With 3 legitimate shooters on the court, Smoove and Horford would be able to get more one on one coverage in the post. I say do that deal tomorrow, and try to get Memphis 2nd rounder also (if they have one).
By Ramon
June 25, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
Terrell, MJ didn’t screw it up with Rip, and Brown DOMINATED Chandler in the workouts 1 on 1. And Sean May was a 12-14th selection who has now been injury prone, but never was during college. And he definitely made a good trade last draft by picking up J Rich.
By Mike is back
June 25, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
TB I was thinking the same thing about MJ. The Bobcats already have the 9th pick, now he gives Denver a protected future first round pick to get the 20th pick in this year draft to draft Hibbert, the only problem is Hibbert will probably be gone to Utah by the time they draft at 20th. He may be greatest player to ever play the game, but as a GM that’s a different story. But if he lands Hibbert with the 20th pick, then he will have redeem himself.
By jc_dawgs
June 25, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
bottom line to all of this….
Pay…or get worse. It’s that simple.
By cp
June 25, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
I like Gerald Green. He can knock down the 3 and can finish at the hoop. The problem is he makes a lot of mistakes. Woody would pull him before he got his warm up off. Green needs a coach like Mc Millan. I think he would really develop Green. Green has a lot of talent but he wouldnt see the court here. I think some on here were talking about a Marvin for Mike Miller around the trade deadline after Memphis gave away Paul Gasol for a bag of chips and a bottle of water. I read where they said they are not trading Miller. He would be the perfect fit here. I keep saying it but a second rounder this year would not hurt. I dont think too many vets will be lined up trying to sign here. JR Giddens is the guy I would love to see coming off our bench. Good defender, can rebound well for his position, knocks down the 3, finishes well at the rim, and works hard.
By Mike is back
June 25, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
SalimFan, check out the comments about Salim under the PLAYER NOTES on this USATODAY link about the Hawks. SUND you need to check this link out too, maybe you can get Woody to give this kid a chance before it’s too late.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/hawks/notes.htm?csp=34
By terrell
June 25, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
He did’nt screw it up with RIP? Well why did he trade him then?
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this
Mike, The first sentence says it all. One of the casualties of the Hawks’ decision to keep Woodson is reserve G Salim Stoudamire
He’s not coming back….
If Miami Gets Beasly and deals down to memphis (for Mayo, or Bayless) (which is a rumor) Somebody on that Memphis roster has to go. And considering their youth movement, the odd mad out will likely be Miller. If that situation plays out the Hawks HAVE to make that happen. Hopefully without giving up a starter or chills.
By MannyT
June 25, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Ken Thanks. That means a lot coming from you. I like your hoops stuff. Often I just read and enjoy when you post.
Mike you have exposed SalimFan’s part time job writing for USA Today ;-)
Sure we need a shooter. Hopefully Josh, Josh, Marvin, AC, Jeremy & Mario are cranking it up from the line all summer. In the meantime, as we have no David Andersen, we need to get a cap friendly tripler quickly (be he Jarvis Hayes, Eddie House, Chris Duhon more PT here if they take Rose!, Kareem Rush, Jannero Pargo, Gordon Giricek) All should be relatively inexpensive, unrestricted free agents that can shoot the 3!
Then we can focus that mid level exception on 1 or 2 centers that can contribute a seasoned Robin Lopez style game—defense and rebounding.
You know a trade has issues when the guy most likely to still be in the league in 4 years from the O’Neal/Ford deal might be 32 yr old Rasho Nesterovic.
What I will miss most about not having Kevin Love on this team…all those Beach Boys references…good, good, good, good vibrations….
How many of you remember the Dan Dickau song? It was a sampling of the Commodores’ Brick House.
Check out the hottest Hawks item available this week! Maybe Rick Sund will sport it as the most visible, new member of the Hawks.
Enough WAF
By SalimFan
June 25, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
“I appreciate my players voting for me to be their coach,” Woodson said before signing his new deal. “You might not know this, but I love coaching and I love my players.”
Thats B.S, Woodsons a sick Ba$tard. Other than JJ no one would lobby for him to come back and be their Head Coach. His sarcasam really p** me off. Just like in that 790 interview.
By Mike is back
June 25, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
Yea I know, but I want to Salim go to team where can get some PT. I think his experience with Woody will make him a better player in the end. When you’ve been stuck on the pine for three years, you cherish every second you get to play. Lets hope Acie will fair better than Salim did.
By Ramon
June 25, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
He traded Rip for what every coach wants, a proven veteran. I’m not saying he’s a great evaluator, but everything he did wasn’t bad. And your statement was on draft picks, and what he did with them.
By HHoops
June 26, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
Manny T - I agree that we need to keep our point guards. But, I still say the Hawks need to trade Marvin for a 10th-17th draft pick and go get Roy Hibbert with the pick.
Resign both Josh’s and you have added Hibbert in the post. With that roster the Hawks have the option to play Big with Josh S., Horford and Hibbert on the front line or you can play small(like this past year)and play Horford @ 5. This gives the Hawks great versitality!
By Mike is back
June 26, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
SaimFan I wouldn’t read too much into Woody statement. They had to tell Drew something to get him to resign. We all know JJ is the only reason Woody is coming back, but I don’t Sund is sold on him. I still think the Hawks will struggle on the road, so look for Woody to be standing there with his hands cross with that same stupid look on his face, talking about it’s his fault the guys wasn’t ready to play. Let’s hope I’m wrong because I know the guys on the Hawks squad want to win.
By Ramon
June 26, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this
I’m curious to see what everyone thinks. Should Horford play summer league? And also if he doesn’t beside ‘add ons’ trying to make the roster, who will the Hawks have beside Law who really is on the roster playing in the summer league?
By SalimFan
June 26, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this
Manny, lol If that were really my job i’d have everyone in the U.S against Woodson there’s no way he would have been rehired as a HC. I can see on of my headlines now:
Fear of loosing his job and the inability to effectively coach a team has stressed woodson to the point of Baldness.
Bwahahahaha
Mike, Salim has always valued playing time. In fact that’s what he and woodson got into it about. He used to hate coming off the court…..then he got suspended for pouting lol. But yeah he’ll defenetly be a valuable asset to some team next season.
BWAFFLE
By SalimFan
June 26, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this
Mike, I agree. I don’t think Sund is sold on him either. I’d hate to see the hawks struggle, but if they do, it would defenetly give Sund an excuse to bring in another coach. Sekou did say that Woody’s contract is set up so that if he makes one mistake he’s finished. You’re probably right about Drew also.
By Ray Eck
June 26, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this
The Blazers bought the 27th pick, why didn’t the Hawks go after it. Yes, Paul Allen has a lot of money but a pick at this time of the draft would have been a great help to the team. You have to pay to get a player once in a while, forget the amount you might have to pay the Josh’s. Who knows you might not keep them anyway. This is a bad blunder.
By SalimFan
June 26, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this
Ramon, It’s required that all second year players compete in summer leauge (the Same goes for Rookies).
Many, I had never heard that Dan Dickau song befor but now i’m jealous lol. I WANT MY OWN THEME SONG DARNIT!!!
Also, you’d have to be one mis-informed (AKA Stupid) Hawks fan to buy a draft cap this year…….unless ‘rejust really in need of a cap…….nope……just severely mis-informed….lol.
By ray
June 26, 2008 1:42 AM | Link to this
Looking forward to watching the draft (and all the trades that spawn from it) tonight.
On our team: I have no idea what to expect. Looks more and more like best case scenario is that we end up with largely the same roster as last year, and another sub-.500 record. Welcome back to the draft after that…
By Najeh Davenpoop
June 26, 2008 2:20 AM | Link to this
Hahaha I still have the Dan Dickau song on my iPod…
Ray Eck, aside from the fact that we have nine incompetent multi-millionaire owners instead of one smart billionaire owner, buying a late first-round pick to get some project that will take two or three years to contribute might not even really be worth it for a team that already has enough young talent and relatively little experience.
By Najeh Davenpoop
June 26, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this
Ray, if we have exactly the same roster next year, why would we still necessarily be under .500? Our 3rd best player just finished his rookie season, our 2nd best player is 22 years old, and our starting point guard was only here half the season. Chances are barring injury the same roster would probably perform better next season. Is it too big of a stretch to say that we will win four more games next year with the same roster to make it to .500?
I’m not saying this is a scenario I’d be OK with, just that I think you’re not giving enough credit to the young players on the Hawks and their ability to improve at their age.
By doc
June 26, 2008 7:33 AM | Link to this
najeh, one doesnt get better by standing still in sports. it does work in meditation but that isnt going to get us into the playoffs.
the reality of last season hinged on we had a perfect season with no injuries and picked up a very expensive aging point guard during the season. we “achieved” at best a .500 record with him as we “played” a rotation of SEVEN guys to save the coaches job which will prove to be a mistake. now what makes me think that the same thing can be achieved against superior competition as ALL including the BASG suggested the last third of the season was against the bottom of the league? what happens if acie cant play or biby gets hurt? what happens if zaza goes down again or worse yet one of the three studs or maybe even chills fractures a foot again. do you really think all the forces can allign again?
it is just way to early to predict the outcome going forward based on even the past season. much more water is to go under the bridge this off season and it is in the most treacherous part of the river …. where the money flows.
By Sautee
June 26, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this
Najeh
From your 2:27 a.m. post:
Chances are barring injury the same roster would probably perform better next season. Is it too big of a stretch to say that we will win four more games next year with the same roster to make it to .500?
A couple of things jump out at me from that statement:
First the chances are and probably part…
We were extremely lucky regarding injuries last year. Chances are that we won’t have that kind of luck two years running.
And IF we do we’ll probably we’ll perform better next season. But that’s no given.
As far as “is it too much of a stretch?” No it is not, but as Ando said many times, do you think the BAASG will pay an additional 10-12M for the same team, even if they go OVER .500?
And things are in such a state of flux in the East that they could go 42-40, a decent improvement from 37-45 and STILL miss the playoffs.
For an additional 10-12M?????
Unless there is more than meets the eye (as to how deep they will dig), something HAS to give, most likely with Bibby.
By MannyT
June 26, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
I agree with ray. I have no idea what to expect.
The dominoes are starting to fall. The trades are beginning. The draft will put a handful of useful rookies on teams AND bump some vets that we can use.
If the Pistons break up that team, the team that gets those players may want to let some free agents walk.
Not that I want him, but I’d expect Jamaal Tinsey to put his house up for sale soon.
We will make some moves. I am confident that there will be at least one new player in Woody’s rotation. However, doc did remind me of something. If Woody didn’t develop his bench early last year, then went to playoff mode by March…what will this season hold?
If other teams are getting better, he can’t expect to bring home fewer wins next season. If there is a slow start, will he go to his playoff rotation in January?
Will Sund raise $$$ for the ASG by selling fans seats 14 & 15 on the bench? You actually get the uniform and a 10 day contract. You won’t get to play. The experience will cost you about $500k more than the contract. But you get to brag about making a NBA roster.
Cha ching PAIN.
By Sautee
June 26, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this
Bibby is due a “market correction”.
Does ANYONE here think that at the end of his current contract, he’ll be able to sign up for another few years at 13-14m / yr.?
He will not find a team in 09-10 willing to pay that for an aging point guard with defensive liabilities.
So, the question for the “Let’s keep Bibby” crowd is….
If we could give him an extension and keep him for say 3 more years (counting the upcoming season) what would be the price the Hawks could pay him and be able to afford re-signing JJ and Horford?
Remember that he’d likely be a backup after this year IF Acie develops as we all hope.
I’m NOT, by the way, in favor of this (an extension). I think he’ll have the most value near the trade deadline for a contending team with a point guard injury.
So whadda ya’ think Bibbyphiles?
By MannyT
June 26, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Sautee I think you have to let Bibby go at the end. I am fine with keeping him for this season. I like the cap space. We will have to see what happens, but AC needs to step up or we need to find an established PG that is affordable (less than 10 Mil/yr).
What Bibby brings that this team needs is confidence and swagger. I loved his playoff shot at Boston. Even if he did not have a good series, he took some pressure off the nice guys that were unwilling to stare down Boston. Sure we got there after a couple of games, but Bibby was first out of the blocks to throw mud on at the super franchise.
He has useful attitude CRAP
PS New Blog Up
By Ken Strickland
June 26, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
DOC-I read your last post and I agree with you. I also agree with NEJAH. It could go either way depending on the circumstances. What if Boston lost KG or Pierce to injury, or Orlando lost Howard or Cleveland lost James or Detroit lost Billups and so on. Look how Toronto was affected when they lost Bosh. Our won/loss record could be affected by key injuries other than our on.
There is one other factor that will affect the Hawks season that other Eastern teams won’t likely have the deal with. What other Eastern conference team has a HC that’s so limited in his approach, tactics, strategy, use and development of young players and bench, and is unwilling to even consider the advantanges of developing either. Any improvement in our won/loss record will be more dependent on the flexiblility, adaptability and evolution of Woodson, than the players.
The Hawks have to find ways to overcome the absence of hometown fan support, and Woodson’s ultra conservative approach when on the road, to really move forward. There’s no doubt our confidence level will be sky high this yr. Greater confidence can win a lot of the close gms and prevent a lot of the 2nd half collapses we had last yr. I can see us winning at least 10 more gms this season. REMEMBER, I SAID IT FIRST.
By MannyT
June 26, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Ken I hope you are correct, but I also hope I win the lottery. Not likely, but possible for a single dollar.
If the Hawks do win at least 10 more games, then they should have decent fan support. That level of winning probably gets them home court in the 1st round of the playoffs.
Once you get a winning record, the extra wins are harder to get. Now you have to beat good teams versus racking up wins on lottery teams.
To win 10 more games either Woody adapts to the players or Sund brings in players that Woody likes to use.
While I don’t buy it until I see the November 1st roster, I’ll give you optimistic CRAP.
By terrell
June 26, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
I just heard that David Lee is available. Would you guys like to add him to our roster? What about Zaza for Lee straight up? Diantoni supposedly likes those soft Euro’s. lol!!!
By Mike is back
June 26, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
MannyT, I agree 100% on Bibby, not only is he a big shot guy with a lot of swagger, he was also a coming affect on the whole team, especially Smoove. But Acie is chomping at the bits to be the leader of this team, having one more year with Bibby can only help his cause. The relief we get from Bibby cap number will be solely needed.
Ken , I think the Hawks will be lucky if they win five more games. Remember this team is built for up-tempo play, which is not Woody’s forte. Base on his comments about wanting Bibby to play his style of ball, I expect more of the same from Woody. If we some how get a legit Big, then yea that could happen because we would have the personnel to play Woody ball, “Boringgggggggg.”
SalimFan, I wouldn’t be surprise to see Salim end up in New Orleans or San Antonio. I know Barron Scoot would know how to use him, and the Spurs have a propensity for taking other teams cast off and making them a star. Plus the Spurs are in dire need of 3 point shooters.
Unfortunately the biggest handicap on the Hawks team is the coach. PAIN x PAIN = OCHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Evan
June 26, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
For sure ZaZa has to regain the starting position. His performance went down, because he was affraid to luz starting, and he was coming with second line guys. He was really tough when he was playing with JJ and Bibby. Woody sucked with him and Salim and Law. Those guys were able to do more, but woody was throwing them back after first error, wich killed them confidence? actually giving core team just a rest, not a equal relieve
By Evan
June 26, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
It’s really difficalt to play when you know that one error-prolong banch again!
By Ken Strickland
June 27, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
MIKE IS BACK=I beg to differ. Look at the impact Bibby had on the team and it’s winning % after he arrived. Then consider he arrived with an injured wrist and then injured his ankle. He was unfamilar with his teammates, coaching staff and the OFF/DEF. He played off instinct, experience and grit.
Knowing his teammates, coaching staff, the OFF/DEF and going through an entire training camp and exhibition season will only help Biiby and the team. I expect Horford to start the season off the way he finished it. Last yr, he learned as he played and gained experience. This yr he’ll improve on what he learned and experienced last yr.
I see Smoove starting the season with a better handle, a more accurate jumpshot and a stronger inside gm. I think Marvin will improve his DEF, rebounding and will go to the FT line more often. Acie will be more confident and will be looking to make an impact.
Unlike last yr, the team will start the season seriously expecting to make the playoffs, instead of hoping like last yr. Woodson knows he’s been given a reprieve, not a vote of confidence, with his new contract. He should be more player friendly and less domineering or combative. According to him, his players were the deciding factor in Sund’s decision to rehire him. With these factors, and barring major injury, I can see an additional 10 wins.