Hawks

By WONK WONK

June 12, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

If his contract is like that than it’s good……it won’t take him long to screw up lol

By Ben

June 12, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

We all have seen it. KG is a choker. He does his “I am the best playa in the NBA” pregame BS, and chokes.

GO LAKERS.

This Woodson signing means the end of Josh Smith. Oh well.

By terrell barron

June 12, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

It’s down to 12.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 12, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Does ABC have a replay camera for anything? They are not showing any good replays. I’d rather watch these games on TNT anyway.

Celtics showing some good fight here. This game could get tight late and really turn into something special.

By Reggie

June 12, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Sekou

What are the chances the hawks trade Marvin Williams this summer?

By SQUAWKER

June 12, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Obviously, most of the die-hards are pretty upset Woody is returning for a variety of reasons (most of which I won’t touch on - I am sure others will).

What I really want to express concern about and hope you will express your opinion on is Woody’s use of the bench and specifically Acie Law. I was really encouraged when Acie’s name and potential kept coming up in interviews with Sund immediately following his hiring. I was really optimistic Law would be handed the reins this season because I have all the belief in the world that Acie is the future at PG for this organization, especially if he can improve his jumpshot. So, I must ask, does Sund realize how little chance Acie was given last season by Woodson? Did he even watch some of last seasons games before deciding on Woody? I find it highly dubious that Woody will ever get the most out of his players and even more dubious that he is the best guy to tutor young PG Acie as he feels his way out in this league.

Sure, I understand that he was coaching for his job last year and had to rely on veterans but he ran this team in the ground and I think even the most ardent Woodson supporters would concede he didnt utilize his bench well. He was always quick to pull Acie after any sort of mistake (a great way to inspire confidence, I might add) and even pulled him at times when he seemed to be getting in rhythm as if he didnt want to give Acie a chance to have an argument for more playing time.

I don’t think anyone would argue that Al Horford succeeded because of Al Horford. It isn’t like Woody did anything technical to get Al involved - he is just a natural beast. So, I guess what I am asking is, is Woody capable of handling our PG situation the way it should be? Is any coach on our staff capable of tutoring Acie and helping his game evolve? Or, should I just continue to pull my hair out and hope that a two year contract means there is a chance for a quick pull of the firing trigger (as Mark Bradley has suggested in his recent article)?

Any comments on this subject would be much appreciated. Thanks for all you do, and Go Hawks.

By falcon21

June 12, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

Woodson,go coach rec ball,please!!!

By terrell barron

June 12, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, I would’nt mind seeing ya boy Ariza in a Hawks uniform.

By Sautee

June 12, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Sekou TNT is the only big league broadcaster of professional basketball.

Not even close.

Kinda like this game.

See y’all

By MannyT

June 12, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Sekou two blogs in one day? You must NOT belong to any union.

Lakers in control with Kobe playing the vegetarian…game over.

If the beef turns it on, they might win by 40 and scare Boston out of game 6 tonight.

Role players with confidence change series…I hope Woody is taking notes…uhh never mind.

WAF

By ToeKnee

June 12, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

Yeah, TNT should definitely be getting this game, ABC should be taking cues from them, because they do it right, always entertaining, and always about basketball!

I like the Woodson extension. I mean honestly, how can you cut him after the Boston series? say what you will about everything before, but just like our joshes, we have invested four years into woody too, and i dont see any reason to get rid of him right after his BEST moment as coach. THAT would not make sense. A full preseason and year with Bibby and a healthy Acie at point, i like it, you can only change so much at once.

also, i really hope we keep mario and jeremy richardson( along with the joshes obviously). both dudes got maad skills. richardsons got the height and the shot to really contribute. and mario to me should play at least 5 minutes every night.

plus the guys seem to like em both. i think he does, but i really hope sund puts an emphasis on chemistry, because it matters more in basketball than any other sport in my opinion.

By MannyT

June 12, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

Matt you are correct. My blogging has definitely gone fishin’ (TNT style)!

Allow me to clean up the mess with WAFFI and WAFFLE per your suggestion from earlier blog.

WAFFI - Woody’s Arms Folded - Fingering Indignation Same intent as before.

WAFFLE - Woody’s Arms Folded - Feeding Lower Expectations Usually happens after timeout or at start of 3rd quarter.

mykhalc stay away from sharp objects. Woody might not sign the deal…until the Thrashers have a coach. That could be months ;-)

ray Did the smoke alarm go off when you wrote that last post!??!!

Woody’s ability to develop his bench - pure WAFFLE

By Sekou K. Smith

June 12, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

An Ariza type player is one of the things I thought the Hawks were missing on the bench this season, particularly in the playoffs. And bench play has long been something I’ve pounded on around here. You’ve got to have it if you’re going to play at a consistently high level.

No clue on the chances of Marvin Williams being traded this summer. Sund’s activity in July and beyond will be very interesting. There is so much tweaking that could be done to this roster.

Celtics won’t go away. But Lamar Odom is just on fire. He’s got the entire game working tonight. He’s the whole package at his position when he’s playing with his swag on high.

By AthensBob

June 12, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Fantastic Ray, simply fantastic.

By kwooden1

June 12, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

I’ve been in a cave since noon and just got the news about Woodson????? WHAT…!!!!……………………………….!!!!………..!!!!…………!!!!!…………………..

Just say that I don’t like the decision!!

I’ll read everyone else’s comments tomorrow, but I’m sure I agree with whatever has already been said. Sund isn’t charge (or just dumb), no bold steps will be taken this summer. I can only hope that they actually over pay for the Josh’s and be financially strapped for the near future. Because it looks like we’re headed for a train wreck, lose both Josh’s and sign some washed up, over priced FA!!!!

GO HAWKS?????????

By Sekou K. Smith

June 12, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

The whole series comes down to Sunday’s Game 5. The winner Sunday wins thing thing (as if that was some sort of revelation, ha).

By Reggie

June 12, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Sekou

What players do you realistically see the hawks getting summer?

By Samuel

June 12, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

I figure that Sund did the right thing. He talked to the players and they all agreed that they wanted Woody back. They finally began to realize what he is trying to do here. They liked that feeling they experienced during the playoffs.

Sund probably looked at the playoff experience and atmosphere at Phillips and realized what could be here in Atlanta. He probably looked at the possible replacements for Woody and realized that they are all unemployed for a reason.

I’ll admitt, i’m a little surprised by 2 years but after cuz assured me that his boy,Sund, was a real old school basketball man. I knew he would do the right thing.

By MannyT

June 12, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

Does Phil Jackson call Woody at halftime of these games?

It sure looks familiar.

WAFFLE

By terrell barron

June 12, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

I thought you said this game was over Sekou. Celtics down by 2. Remember this is not a Mike Woodson coached team. If it was, the game would have been over. lol!!

By Samuel

June 12, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Kobe just got Posterized by a 50 year old.

By mykhalc

June 12, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

yeah right Samuel???!!! some cats are unemployed for a reason while ONE is employed for NO REASON!!!! but then again AI was a good fit for the HAWKS too!!!

By ray

June 12, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

I feel like saying it again (sort of):

You know what?

It occurred to me that this two year contract extension offer is even uglier than it looks. Ask yourself why the ASG made that offer. Don’t fool yourself. It was the ASG. It is the ASG. Sund is too new and too…well, he’s not an owner, and he’s not a guy named Gearon, which means he only makes decisions if someone named Gearon is cool with it.

But here’s the question: Why a two-year extension? Is it because Woody really deserves a chance? Or is it because these cheap-a$$ owners DO NOT WANT TO BE COMMITTED TO ANYTHING. They say Belkin wanted to run the team on the cheap. So what do they call themselves doing? I’ll believe otherwise when they pony up the dough to resign both Joshes AND keep a guy like Bibby. But I just don’t see it happening. You know what else? Look how long it took to get a GM in here. How long do you suppose it would take them to get another coach in here (unless they either promote Larry Drew and he accepts, or they get some desperate scrub from somewhere else). Both Joshes would be gone by the time it happened.

And think about this: would an incoming coaching prospect receive more than a two-year contract offer? Hmmmmmmmm. How many more times would we see Marc Stein having a field day on our pathetic situation? How many names would pass through the hat before some back-door last minute deal comes through for a loser like freakin’ Jim Boylan (formerly Bulls head coach)?

Enough is enough. The best possible thing the ASG could do is just get the hell out of Rick Sund’s way and let him do what he knows how to do. But no, they can’t keep their multiple noses out of it. I take that back. The Gearons can’t keep their noses out of it. Micromanaging sons of….

You know what else I take back? I take back the thought that this is the best thing they could do. Here’s the best thing the ASG could do:

Re-sign the Joshes or at least make some hellacious block-buster deals with one or both that could really add some excitement and potency to this roster. Balance the roster better. Get a different coach who can make this team exciting, like Golden State. Exciting enough for people to want to watch, and winning enough to at least not be struggling to make it into the playoffs. Gain revenue from fielding a much more exciting prospect. And then SELL THE TEAM (BOTH FRANCHISES ACTUALLY) TO SOMEONE ELSE WHO KNOWS WHAT THE F### THEY ARE DOING.

Make the product better, gentlemen. Make it worth selling to someone so that you can make a profit. Put more money in your coffers than you had when you got into this. And get the hell out. You don’t know what you’re doing, there’s too many of you, and none of you have what it takes to do this alone, much less one other partner. It can’t last, and it’s only a matter of time before the mutiny occurs because too many of you are losing too much money. Go home and leave the NBA and the fans of Atlanta alone. You are making a mockery of the city, of the state, of one of the best NBA markets around.

There, I said it. And I won’t take it back.

By Samuel

June 12, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Get these Euro Punks out-a-here. Are you kidding me?

By MannyT

June 12, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

wow

By ray

June 12, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

AthensBob, thanks.

MannyT, that’s a taste of what’s on my mind. More where that came from. And it’s only going to get hotter…

Well, leave it to the Lakers to lose a 24 point lead at home in the Finals. I’m not taking anything from the Celtics either (they are gritty as HELL), but you can’t ignore the fact that the Lakers made one bad pass, took one bad shot, and committed one unforced turnover after another…

Somebody start fitting KG and Paul for rings…right now. I have no huge love for Pierce, but homeboy is playing his arse off. Eddie House is what we wish Salim Stoudamire would be. Leon Powe…what can you say? A mentally and physically tough player who is benefitting from two major things any young player must have: a good work ethic and solid veteran mentorship.

Imagine how good our guys would be with that second part. I don’t doubt their work ethics, but where has that solid veteran presence been?

Kobe is looking less and less like the most dangerous player on the planet.

Somebody tell Jeff Van Gundy to shut up. No, tell him to go grab Alonzo Mourning by the leg again…that’ll solve that problem..

One more time: get those guys in green fitted for rings…

By terrell barron

June 12, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

I guess Woody did something Phil could’nt do. Hold serve at home against the Celtics. However, he still did’nt deserve that extension. What a comeback by Boston!

By ray

June 13, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this

Sam, are you wearing your full body sh!t-dipping suit? You must be with those comments on Sund…As for possible replacements for Woodson (if for some reason he doesn’t wise up and sign that contract-nobody else will be offering him a head coaching job this year), you forgot the rest of the story: there aren’t any that would accept the contract length or pay that the ASG is offering. So yes, the “possible replacements” are truly scrubs and otherwise. Call it like it is.

This ain’t about Sund. As I recall, you were ready to welcome Knight back with open arms compared to this dude? Will you change your tune if/when Woodson punks the pooch and gets himself fired? Not that I’m hoping this will happen, but winning coaches have lost their jobs before…still, as it stands now…there’s no ink on the contract. But if there is anytime soon, I’ll send someone over to pat you on the back when you sprain your rotator cuff doing it yourself.

By terrell barron

June 13, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

Hey Rey, I still think it goes 7 games. Dont get those rings fitted just yet.

By terrell barron

June 13, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

And we had solid veteran mentorship. Dont forget about Lorenzen and the popcorn thing. lol!!!

By Samuel

June 13, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

Ah, Ray. They just signed a coach. Was Phillips Arena not jump’n a few weeks ago? It can be done and it will be done.

Hat’s off to the Boys from Beantown.

Hopefully, they can close the Lakers out on Daddy’s Day. Hopefully, teams will end their facination with these Euro punks that play no defense and fold under pressure.

Phil and Jerry Buss should know better. Show time would never start 2 Euro punks. Way to go Celtics. I’m out-a-here. I plan to hit them bass before dust in the morning.

Sleep Tight: Big Ray, mykhalc,doc,Joe, tb and Manny T. I guess Ando is strung out with the pampers and similac. How is the Princess Ando?

By ray

June 13, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

If Woodson returns, things will be very interesting for the players.

Will he continue his stuffy, dictatorship ways? Will we see whatever the hell it is that Sam says he’s trying to do? Will it continue to be “throw Joe the ball, then Iso”?

You’ve got to wonder how guys like Josh Smith will take this. In fact, he’s probably one of the most pivotal pieces in this part of the discussion. Of course, that’s a hot button here. You either love him or hate him (in the case of most people anyway). I don’t know if he and Woody can every really connect the right way. So what’s to be done about that? I will say this: you never pick a coach over a player unless the whole program is solid, the system is good, and that particular player is the one bringing the whole thing down. Oh, and the coach is a proven commodity. Heh…well, going by that formula, the answer should be obvious should the question ever come to light. But it shouldn’t. But it might, in some sort of roundabout way. I say roundabout because Josh isn’t the only guy who has issues with Woodson.

And I’ll say another thing again: Woody is in a good spot. He treats his veteran players (Bibby, JJ) quite well. They do as they please for the most part (I still remember his words regarding Bibby). The young players don’t have it nearly as good. But they don’t know any different. Why? Because they’ve only had Woody experience since they’ve been in the League. They haven’t toiled under anybody else in the League.

I’ll also say this: both sides have to work at it. It can’t be all the coach. It can’t be all the players. Both parties have to be willing to work together. But for cripes sake Woody…develop a damn system. One that works with the team you have (whatever that happens to be by the end of the summer/fall). Teach the guys how to run it. Gain an identity. Involve and encourage the young guys, the guys on the bench. Otherwise, you’re useless to them.

And a note for Joe Johnson. Time to face facts. Yes, Billy Knight said they’d build around you and add the necessary pieces. No, it didn’t happen. But you left the better situation in Phoenix to come here and be the man. So be the man. You want veterans? You are the veteran. You want a leader? You are the leader. You’re team captain. Act like it. Take a page from Garnett, who almost never had all those things you’re wailing about. Perseverance. BE THE MAN.

By ray

June 13, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

Sam, believe it or not…I hope you’re right. It has to be done again or the dark ages aren’t over…

The boys from Beantown deserve everything. They have fought and scrapped. I still would’ve loved to see them play Phoenix or somebody…

By Sekou K. Smith

June 13, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

Still in a state of shock here folks. Just stunned!!!!!!

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

now who said DOC wasn’t all that as a coach??? his presser is light years ahead of anythin’ WOODSON could ever dream to spout from his brain!!!

By Harry Hawk

June 13, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

I hate the Celtics, but the Lakers are a bunch of punks. At least KG, Pierce, and Allen actually need the rings. Kobe merely wants one to prove that he’s as special as he thinks he is.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 13, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

Kudos to Ray Allen for doing against the Lakers what he couldn’t against the Hawks in Round 1, DOMINATE!

Wow. The Celtics are on the verge here.

By femhawkfan

June 13, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this

I completely agree with Ray, especially his point about Joe. Joe needs to step up and be a leader. I love Joe and his game, but I want him to see him develop more as a leader and help the young guys. When I watch various NBA games, I see the vets on various teams encouraging their young teammates and telling them what they are doing wrong. However, I rarely, if ever, see that from Joe. I believe I saw more leadership from Horford in some games. Bibby also showed a lot of leadership. Joe needs to step up and be the captain before the team decides to elect a new captain.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 13, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this

Seeing Kobe’s jacket from the post game presser makes all of the craziness from this game seem rather normal.

That thing is horrible and any dude that wears that joint to the office has to prepare himself for disaster.

One more thing, Paul Pierce has gone at Kobe’s dome this entire series. It’s something that might not appear to be a big deal on the surface. But Pierce has a confidence that allows him to show up every night and believe he can outplay your best player. And he’s attacked the Lakers that way.

By Ramon

June 13, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

Terrell, I NEVER said Woody didn’t have a problem with player development. I stated player development wasn’t his BIGGEST flaw. Its a flaw of his but it isn’t his best. And to be honest, you look at Childress and Marvin, and both were injured half of their first 2 seasons. So both of their developments were hendered by things other then Woody.

I think his management of timeouts, adjustments, and player minutes during games is his biggest flaw that needs to be worked out the most. True enough Woody doesn’t play rookie guards not named Ivey much. But if you look at Phil Jackson, Karl, Van Gundy, and Paul Silas, you’ll see many successful coaches who doesn’t have a history of giving rookie pgs much of a chance. I’m not saying that it is right, I’m only saying it is COMMON.

If Woody improves in his game management then things will be a lot better. I mean truth be told you can’t look at Salim and Solomon and say he didn’t develop those two players. Because on a deeper roster, Solomon wouldn’t even be on the ACTIVE roster. Salim could’ve provided more punch for the offense, but Salim misses many of the defensive assignments in the game. Its good to play hard on defense (which Salim does), but hard doesn’t make up for missing assignments.

Once again, I’m not saying I want Woodson to be the coach AT ALL. But I am saying player development wasn’t his biggest flaw.

By RealSquawk

June 13, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this

You know! in the past this would be a move that made me swear off the hawks for awhile. This would usually be a move that would make me say dooming words on the hawks upcoming season, but Now is not the time.

There are far more important things that need to be handled like resigning the Josh’s and making sure Marvin Williams does not get traded.

So as far as Mike Woodson getting a contract extension I won’t disagree or agree, but i will say this

*>> As long as we sign the josh’s and keep our core intact meaning marvin, Joe, Horford, and Acie and Bibby?? << *

*the hawks will be alright everything else will take care of itself *

By ray

June 13, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this

femhawkfan, that’s exactly it. I also like the guy and love his game. But he wasn’t brought here to just be a hired gun. And he had to know that. Integrity is doing what you were brought here to do…regardless of whether or not the powers that be can keep their heads on straight. And as you said, you saw more on-court leadership from Horford. It’s crazy. Horford sure had Josh Smith’s ear. Why not JJ?

Every team has a guy that does that. That guy is usually a team captain. Being team captain entails a certain amount of responsibility, rather than being the teacher’s pet (wheeee! all the plays are run for meeee!). I don’t really want to call Joe that, but like you said…do the job or somebody else gets voted in.

Personally, I think Bibby can help in that area, but does he have enough of what it takes? Tell you who probably finds that role more natural (if Woodson would let the damn guy play)…Acie Law. I’m just sayin’….

Glad to see someone else looks at the leadership thing that way.

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 13, 2008 3:30 AM | Link to this

“Hopefully, teams will end their facination with these Euro punks that play no defense and fold under pressure.”

Co-sign. Straight out of high school players, for all the sh-t they take in the media and from the league itself, are better than Euros 24/7.

By Jeremy

June 13, 2008 6:26 AM | Link to this

More of the same for the Hawks and Atlanta. Let’s just continue to accept being mediocre (see Bobby Cox) and not strive to take a chance to get better. I also can’t shake the thought that ownership told Sund to bring back Woodson because they did not want to pay top dollar for another/better coach.

If I could be through with them, I would be but I can’t help but continue to HOPE that they get better. Geez I wish I had the money to buy this team from these bozos.

The city deserves better, all of the good will that was built up in the playoffs against the eventual World Champs is p** away when they are 21-24 in January/February. Then it gets even worse when you see the same issues on offense and the younger players NOT GETTING BETTER that we have over the past 4 years.

By kwooden1

June 13, 2008 6:28 AM | Link to this

I think I finally came to a revelation about the ASG, they don’t watch any or few HAWKS games. They know basketball no better than we do. If you don’t watch the HAWKS than you think they’re just a Young Team trying to find their way, with a coach that is just struggling to make it work. They had a hugh unexpected Playoff, which shows their growing and are about to take the next step. Things are looking up!!

I’ve listened to or watch 90% of the HAWKS games this year and I believe nothing is more untrue. If Indiana had a chance to play us twice in the last five games they would be in the Playoffs and lets be clear the HAWKS got destroyed by Boston on the road 4 - 20+ point losses) This team needs some serious loving care and attention to take it to the next level. In terms of changes I see two bads ones and one (I don’t know so far). I would have taken BK over Woodson any day!! I though BK was just starting to get it. I have know idea about Sund, but I think he made a decision based on what he saw and he hasn’t seen nearly enough. Worst case, he’s just doing what the ASG wants. (who clearly do watch enough) Sam Please let us all know what Woodson is trying to do, because what ever it is, I see panick once the lights go on and the game starts!

ray You have more hope than I do because I see the dark ages have already started, we just don’t know it yet.

GO HAWKS??

I wanted to see more Finals but 5 is enough!! Go Celtics Watch the Refs? Stern want’s 7

By DAP01

June 13, 2008 7:37 AM | Link to this

Woody is NOT a good coach.

By Raptors fan in TO

June 13, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

One of you mentioned off the top that Woodson’s extension offer might mean the end of Josh Smith in a Hawks uni —- there is a reasonably cheaper replacement for him coming available, as the Raptors are reportedly going to buy out Jorge Garbojosa (I wonder if it has anything to do with his desire to play for Spain in the Olympics???)

By Eric

June 13, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

I look at the Woodson signing like this, if you weren’t going to spend money on a good coach then lets keep Woodson. There was a leak that if the Hawk’s didn’t retain Woodson, that their number one man was going to be Dwane Casey. I’ll take Woodson any day of the week over Casey.

By Ken Strickland

June 13, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

RAY-your obviously emotional vent on the last blog was what I needed. Our feelings on the Woodson matter are in sinc, and I felt every word, THANKS. Right now, I’m just not motivated to respond to the situation. I tried so hard to believe the SAASG would do the right thing for the team, the fans and the players. I’m just a little numb, but I’ll get over it.

By Astro Joe

June 13, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

Acie Law is screwed. If Woody is operating under double secret probabtion in the coming season, there won’t be ANY teaching going on during the season. JJ will easily play 45 minutes/game. Woody will likely use a 7 player rotation. Solomon will continue to sit there and count the arena light fixtures. We’ll likely bring back Jeremy Richardson to count cheerleaders with plastic parts. Zaza and Acie have 3 possessions to prove that they should stay in a game. One mistake, and they’re back on the bench.

1-2 members of the marathon club will end up hurt (Bibby, Smith, JJ or Horford) and Woody will then claim that he couldn’t win because the team was hurt by injuries. (Which had nothing to do with working them like a rented mule). Gearon agrees and Woody coaches the team in ‘09-10 which is JJ’s last season as a Hawk and we start rebuilding the following season when JJ bolts for a return to Phoenix (or Boston).

Oh and eventually Law becomes a modern day Chauncey Billups. After 4-5 years, he’ll emerge as an elite big-play guy whose winning mentality is lauded as he leads another team to a conference finals appearance.

Sekou, who will Woody bring in as his lead assistant. That becomes a critical hire given the secret double probation status. Assuming Drew goes to Charlotte, and Fitz to Cleveland, I’m hoping Woody brings in a guy like Alvin Gentry.

By Sautee

June 13, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Samuel and Najeh

From Sam:

“Hopefully, teams will end their facination with these Euro punks that play no defense and fold under pressure.”

From Najeh:

“Co-sign. Straight out of high school players, for all the sh-t they take in the media and from the league itself, are better than Euros 24/7.”

Painting with a rather broad brush aren’t we????

Are y’all saying you’d rather have Sebastian Telfair than T. Parker or Calderon?

Or you’d take Jonathan Bender over Dirk?

Samuel you should know better than to slam an entire continent of people based on their race. How loudly would you holla if a poster here did that to you?

I’ll admit that Pau, Rad, and Sasha play soft at times. But don’t throw out the Euro-baby with the bathwater.

And Najeh, would you not agree to a trade of Marvin and Zaza for Dirk?

Not that the Mavs would ever do that of course, but I’m just taking the argument to it’s final ridiculousness (If that’s not a word it should be).

Of course with Ray’s help we might find some Polyafrosaxwegian players that can kick a$$. ;-)

peace

By Melvin

June 13, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

I hope Charolotte (Larry Brown) offer Woodson an offer that is better than the one the Hawks has on the table. Maybe Woodson is considering Job security. I sure he would have a better terms (i.e. more security) with an offer from the Bobcats. But if let his ego get in the way and decide that he wants to remain the Head guy and not take an assistant job then he will eventually resign with the Hawks…

By $ Bill

June 13, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Melvin makes an EXCELLENT point!

Larry Brown signed in Charlotte for four years. If Woodson’s ego doesn’t get in the way, do you see him sitting in Atlanta with the contract that’s on the table OR going to Charlotte for at least four years PLUS the chance to succeed Larry Brown once he leaves - AGAIN?

By $ Bill

June 13, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Melvin makes an EXCELLENT point!

Larry Brown signed in Charlotte for four years. If Woodson’s ego doesn’t get in the way, do you see him sitting in Atlanta with the contract that’s on the table OR going to Charlotte for at least four years PLUS the chance to succeed Larry Brown once he leaves - AGAIN?

By KevinM

June 13, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

These Hawks have so many areas that they need to improve in but I will say last year was the first year of the Woody regime that home court started to make a difference. Now that we have some type of consistency built there, it is time to work the roster. Horford needs help period. He and Smoove are not enough to go at the deep Boston reserves. Those 2 goons, Perkins and Powe, are playing very well from a year ago. Funny what a veteran influence like KG can have on young guys. The backcourt needs someone to eat up minutes. While Chills is good on the baseline, we currently do not have a 3 pt threat off the bench. Its obvious Woodrow doesn’t like Salim, so we have to have someone who has not conscience and can defend a play or 2. Those 2 areas are badly needed to overcome bad coaching moves.
Our guys have to overcome Woodrow’s deficiencies to be able to succeed. Does he get the proper credit? Yes, he does. He should get credit for the team’s play on the road. He should get credit for letting JJ go iso in the 4th. Just allows these no-longer-young-guys to play with 2 fouls in the first half and get the hockey sticks out of the way.
To have an offense, you must have a plan. It doesn’t look like Woodrow has a plan that works best for this roster, yet here is he for 2 more paid years. My opinion is Woody got paid handsomely and probably a raise over his previous contract, or else he would not have signed. And, if the ASG had their way, BK would still be here and looking for another wing player to play any position on the floor. Looks like that plan worked out great! Give the Celtics their hardware and let’s get this season out of the way and start building for the next 2 years with Woodrow as our leader. How bad does that sound? Maybe that general’s hat will fit better on his dome now.

By Pete

June 13, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

2 Years is all you can offer a coach like Woodson! The Hawks had to keep their word on this one.

Hopefully Woodson has learned alot from his playoffs. He needs depth and a better rotation of his players. There is no reason why Solo should not be getting minutes. He is serviceable at center. I hope we can keep Salim and bring in one more HEALTHY veteran. Oh and please move Speedy he is dead weight to this team if he is not going play again this season.

By MsDee

June 13, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

I’m willing to give Woodson the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the reason Woodson made bad decisions on time management with players, leaving JJ on the court as long as he did, not playing ACIE that much, etc..was maybe because of BK. Who knows, maybe BK was trying to get Woodson to play Marvin as many minutes as possible(weither he was playing well or not) because he knew he made a bad choice in picking him over C. Paul. Or maybe Woodson was being stubborn and decided not to follow BK orders and played the day-lights out of JJ just so he wouldnt put in back-ups like Salim or J. Richerson. Woodson never really played Sheleton(for good reasons though) just to throw it in BK’s face that he yet made another bad choice in the draft and BK again didnt like Woodson decision. I believe that’s y BK wanted Woodson gone. BK was making bad draft choices and Woodson was being stubborn as a results that cost Salim, A. Law, Mario, & Solomon mintues in the game. Hopefully now that BK is gone, Woodson can coach the way a good decision-making coach should do. Maybe that’s what Woodson and all the players informed Sund about which considered Sund to keep Woodson for 2 more years. To see if what they said about BK is true or not…we shall see!!

By SSI Fan

June 13, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

I do not know why anyone is surprised that Woodson will remain. Apparently the owners would not let BK fire Woodson so why did anyone think that Sund would have any real input into whether he stayed or not.

I asked weeks ago why anyone would leave a good job for a job as GM of this disfunctional franchise. Who did they hire? A man without a job. Despite the propaganda, I believe that both the Spurs official and Chris Grant told the Hawks they were not interested in coming to Atlanta under the proposed working conditions. They might not have been technicaly offered the job, but it’s clear that both said they would not take the job even if it was offered. It says a lot about the situation in Atlanta when one man says he doesn’t want to take a promotion and presumably a big pay raise because of his children’s school situaiton and another man who worked for the Hawks for several years declines the opportunity to be the GM.

By Ryder

June 13, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

Sekou you make a great point about the short leash they have on Woodson. The 2 year extension offer was a good idea, in part because we have to see if their playoff experience this past May will help everyone continue to grow together as a unit, while developing the mentality it takes to win these ball games.

I wonder if there’s anything in the contract about developing future players as well. I understand Acie Law had an injury riddled first season, but showed promise in the playoffs. With Bibby set to become a free agent after next season Woodson has to let him get more playing time. I do believe the Hawks will have to consider a trade to help balance the roster.

Speaking of roster changes, can we all forget about Marvin Williams getting traded? Sure it may sound cute from our perspective as Hawks fans, but realistically name me one team in the NBA who is saying to themselves, “Man we gotta get a soft SF who plays with no intensity or defense.” Who is really going to give up a PF or C (even a backup) for Marvin?

At best he is best coming off the bench as simply a scoring threat, and nothing more. My fear is that Childress will be the victim of a sign and trade, and he’s the kind of player you want in the postseason, not Marvin Williams.

Astro Joe I hope that the playoffs taught Woodson some things about utilizing other players. Most importantly, I hope that Sund can get that veteran PF or C that Woodson will be sure to use in his regular rotation. I think the Bibby trade took away a lot of depth (I never said effective depth) which Sund will have to replenish.

Salim is outta here (watch him flourish on a Western squad), and the Hawks will have to live with Speedy’s contract (ugh) until it runs out.

I think Josh Smith will stay for the simple fact that he will become a star here in Atlanta.

By I.MUS WRITE

June 13, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Sekou- Let me guess u fell asleep again…. This is the playoffs u have to play more than one half…. Lamar Odom??? did he even score in the second half? Kobe Bryant and the Lakeretts….. They are a yung team and with Bynum coming back healthy next year they will be in the mix for years to come.

Can we stop with the MJ comparisons? Kobe is the closest thing i’ve seen to MJ…. but 23 he is not, No way in hell Mj loses a game with that type of lead…..Now that I think about it Kobe was pretty quiet in the second half himself……..

O well im not a big Boston fan but I am a KG fan and it will be nice to see him and Ray allen holding that trophy next week………..

Can sumone send me sum sleeping pills -i keep having the same nightmare- JJ isolated on the wing for a fade away jumper,while the other 4 guys stand around and watch.

AHHHHHHHHH

By Samuel

June 13, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Sautee,

I didn’t know that Europe was a race. Sure there is an occasional pretty good championship caliber player like Calderon or Ginobli that comes out of Europe but for the most part they are 0ne-dimensional and soft, especially the post players. Ship em all to New York,Toronto, Memphis or Golden State.

For the past few years yall have been yappin about the game changing and going to more of an international style of play (translation: play no defense and shoot a bunch of threes). Look at the playoffs. Defense and good strong post players still win championships.

The main reason that Woody hasn’t played his bench is that they aren’t good enough. Acie got a chance but his injury set him back. He also needs to develop a better jumper(Honest Abe). He will be a good guard but right now he’s not a playoff caliber guard.

Solo probably should have played more but the bottom line is that when he got his chance in the playoffs, he did a solid job and should be in the rotation next year. ZaZa and Childress played a lot and even Mario saw plenty of action.

The Hawks were fighting for a playoff spot and accomplished that. They went on and had a solid showing against the probable NBA Champs. Better than the Cavs, The Pistons and to this point, better than the Lakers.

Woody is Back! Take it or Let it alone!

By EJH

June 13, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Everyone needs to get off Woody, give this guy a chance with a veteran point guard from the beginning of training camp who actually can shoot a little. Give him a healthy Acie Law, who I think will develop even more under Larry Drew in the Summer Leageue, I predicting he is going to be the Best player in the Summer League. Sign James Posey from Boston this gives you that SF defensive presence and the long range shooting. I love Josh Childress but he basically gives us the same thing that Mario West can give this team. Do a sign and trade and bring in Mike miller and Javaris Crittenton from that deal. Sign Diop and David Anderson and keep the rest of the roster in tack. If you don’t sign Diop get Kirk Thomas. Woody will be just fine with some more veteran help for this team.

The other deal would be to try and move Chills and Pachulla for Rasheed Wallace and Jarvis hayes, this deal I am not so enamored with but it does give us a person whom other teams will have problems matching up with.

By cp

June 13, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

I think Astro Joe brings up a great point about player development. Last year Woody was coaching to save his job and in thus he shortened up the rotation, played the starters heavy minutes, and would yank a guy like Law after a mistake. This year he will be on a shorter lease so I doubt the young guys will be developed. The first time Law comes in and makes a mistake he will be right back on the bench. Woodson will not coach any different in the upcoming year than he has in any other year. The same iso play to JJ, yanking Marvin after about 6 minutes even if he is in a good groove, sitting players with 2 fouls, not giving anyone off the bench a shot. The B.A.S.G. has got to go. They always painted the picture as if Belkin was the one who wanted to run the team on the cheap but it looks like it was them all along.

By Sautee

June 13, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Samuel

Make no mistake - I didn’t say Europe was a race, I said that you were bashing an entire continent based on their race. I’ll stand on that.

Also Ginobili would be very surprised to hear that Argentina has been moved to Europe.

And PLEASE go back and compare the Hawks road playoff games against the Celts to the Cavs’. How can you possibly say the Hawks did better than the Cavs in Boston?

You can’t.

And will you answer my questions for you from the last two blogs?

Inquiring minds want to know.

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

a lobotomy would have to occur for WOODSON to change!!! he is who is and 4 yrs shoulda been enough!!! the cat is NOT HC material and he’s proven it…PERIOD!!! but hey, if this franchise just wants to spin its’ wheels gerbel-like then it is their right!!! like WOODSON, the BASG are who they are too!!! and now maybe SUND needs to be included!!! bunch of clowns!!!!

By Samuel

June 13, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

My bad,

I went to public school. Wait, I teach public school.

Actually, I should have said International players instead of pinpointing Europe. I wouldn’t want to discriminate against the other softies.

I’m still confused about me bashing and entire continent based on their race. Are you saying that Europe is a race or not?

Sautee,you might want to repost your questions again. I will gladly answer any questions you may have at this time.

By Ben

June 13, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Mike Woodson: “I want to thank Rick for this opportunity, and to express my gratitude to the fans for the unbelievable support they’ve shown during my time here”

Is this a joke? Fans have shown him their support?

By O'brien

June 13, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Remember, the Thrashers have not hired a new coach since Bob Hartley was fired 6 games into the season (the GM was interim coach). NHL finals are over, NHL draft is less than 10 days away (and we have the 3rd pick). And we still have not hired a coach? How long do you think it would have taken the Hawks to hire a new coach?

Not to mention Don Waddell’s record since he became GM over 8 seasons ago. 1 playoff appearance (they were swept), consistently in the bottom third of the league, and despite drafting in the top 12 consistently, our picks have not panned out. But Don Waddell still has his job? What does that tell you about the ASG? Clyde, in case you need a new slogan, “Fire ASG”

By Melvin

June 13, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Dang. We resign Woody… Looks like Clyde is back in business (Fire Woody T-Shirts). Let me be one of the 1st to place my order with you Clyde…

By terrell barron

June 13, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Woody said he wanted to thank the fans for supporting him, during his time in Atlanta. WTF? Everyone kills this guy. What support is he talking about? I know one thing, he better get off to a good start next year, or that’s his azz.

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

SUND says, “and I’m comfortable he will help this team reach its potential and build upon the success they enjoyed this past season.”

WTF is comfortable??? excited, no!!! confident, no!!! know, no!!!! WTF!!!

this is like AI talkin’ about PRACTICE!!! we talkin’ about COMFORTABLE!!! gimme a f’n break!!

By Ken Strickland

June 13, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

SAMUEL-not only is Europe not a race, it’s not even a continent. It started out being an undefined territory, much like the so called Middle East, and was elevated to the status of continent out of intellectual arrogance.

ASTRO JOE-I have no doubt your comments were intended to reflect a certain degree of humor. The sad thing is, you couldn’t pull it off because everything you said was the point blank truth. It’s just too sad and too true to be funny.

With a new HC we might have seen the Salim that was so effective his rookie yr, when he got consistent mins. I’d also like to see the ALaw that was so impressive at the beginning of last season when we had that winning streak. I’d like to see the Richardson and West that performed so well during that stretch when we had all of those injuries.

The difference between the flashes of ability we’ve seen from Acie, Salim, Richardson, West, and Solomon and their ability to perform consistently, boils down to reduced confidence and opportunity. Woodson does’t stumulate or instill much confidence, nor does he offer much opportunity. HE DOESN’T FUNCTION AS A HEADCOACH TO THESE YOUNG PLAYERS, HE’S MORE OF A TASK MASTER. HE’S LIKE AN OLD DRILL SARGENT THAT’S NOT INTERESTED IN WHO OR WHAT YOU ARE OR WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE TO OFFER. HE’S ONLY INTERESTED IN TRYING TO BREAK YOU DOWN IN ORDER TO MAKE YOU INTO WHAT HE WANTS YOU TO BE.

By Astro Joe

June 13, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, not to mention the Hawks released statements. No opportunity for a Q&A, just a piece of paper. Doesn’t sound too convincing to me. Seems that Sund should have at least answered Sekou’s phone call to answer a handful of questions about bringing BK back. Maybe a press conference wasn’t warranted. But surely there is some need to answer a few questions rather than send out a release that says “I’m comfortable”. Deja Vu.

Hey Ando, remind me of the autonomy that a Hawks GM has with this ownership group. Somehow, I have forgotten.

By Tyrone

June 13, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Sammy boy has trouble admitting that he is a full blown bonafide racist. Admitting it is the first step, you black panther.

By peter

June 13, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Finding that Woodson has been re-signed is disconcerting. If he thinks the fans support him he should take a look at the last couple of polls where he is the subject of the poll question. I do not think that the players unanimously supported him either. I do not look for a good season. I suppose that Sund knows what Woodson did last year and is looking forward to more of the same. I can not see how this is good news for either players or fans. This is going to be bad.

By ray

June 13, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Geeez, that picture when you bring up the Hawks tab….says it all.

Well, he’s back. His work has spoken for him before. It will again. We will see what it says. I don’t know about anybody else, but I am wondering what identity this team will assume. Who will be the team leaders? Somebody needs to be a clear leader. If we have any hope at all for our younger guys, we’d better pray that Woodson brings in somebody who can really work with guys like Law, Marvin, Josh, Solo, etc. Otherwise, we will end up with more guys who “just aren’t ready to play.” I’ll bet they’d be playing on other teams…

Now what moves are going to be made? I’ll be glad for the focus to shift back to Sund, as I am sick of talking about Woody, and the inevitable has already happened (Woody signed…he wasn’t getting job offers elsewhere..big surprise….and the ASG couldn’t get anybody worth a damn for the low ball offers they would have made).

Rrrriiiiiingggg

“Hello?”

“Hey, Josh. This is Rick. I assume you heard the news?”

“Yeahhhh…I heard”

“Yeah, well…it won’t be so bad, I promise.”

“You never played for him.”

“Okay, I see we’re not making much headway here. So…would you rather go- Phoenix, L.A. Clippers, Dallas, Philly, Golden State maybe?…choice is yours. We’ll worry about what we’re getting back later. Think about it for a few days and get back to me, okay buddy?”

“Okay…guess I better call my moms.”

By Tyrone

June 13, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Old Sambo sure seems to be in bed with Mike Woodson. Nothing else makes sense.

By doc

June 13, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

things are back to normal …. sund has the same gag order on him as bk did. he goes from candid and refreshing to unavailable and talks through programed press releases. just have a feeling he was too glib in his first few attempts to connect with fans for the BASG.

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 13, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Sautee, it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the Euroleague style of play. There are black Europeans (Boris Diaw for example) who I wouldn’t want on my team because of their softness and lack of aggressiveness — on the flipside there are plenty of white American players (like David Lee) who I would love to have on my team. Obviously if you compare players of vastly different skill levels like Telfair and Calderon you would rather have the more skilled player. But all other things being equal, I would almost always take the American player over the European player for the NBA style of play, because in almost every case the American is more willing to be physical and play defense than the European.

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 13, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Also, Ginobili is not from Europe. Argentina is in South America.

By ray

June 13, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, you called it.

Sautee, funny how “Euros” are no good…but they seem to be better than the thug squad in New York. I seem to remember a certain guy talking about how “bad” the Knicks were going to be. How tough Jerome James, Zach Randolph, and Eddy Curry would be to guard and how they would take the league by storm. Those guys SUCKED, big time. How many coaches have failed with them? D’Antoni only came there because of a monstrous contract (and he was tired of dealing with Sarver up in Phoenix). Now…who was that guy who was so high on New York? Can’t seem to remember his name…Heh.

By A Thinking Fan

June 13, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Say it ain’t so “Doc Ando Joe Ken Terrell Mykhalc Samuel Ray, etc.** No,no!

I’m done with the Broke ASG!

By Astro Joe

June 13, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Doc, if this were DOB’s blog, he might go with that song with the lyrics…

Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.

Talking Heads? Not sure if I have my band right, but the song is ringing in my head.

Same as it ever was.

I may have to change my hadle again.. this time, I may try “Deja Vu Joe”.

By ray

June 13, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Doc, that figures, doesn’t it? Here we go…

One more thing about Woody. I’ll give him credit if the team is truly better. But if the same crap begins again…I’m hammering him…and his ardent supporters.

EJH, I just love your trade ideas. Bring in a whole slew of guys who would rather be anywhere but here….nice-sounding ideas though.

By ray

June 13, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

ATF, we should all be done with these FOOLS. Now what can we do to encourage a mutiny….

Acie Law better cherish every minute he gets while playing in the summer league. It will be the most he sees on the hardwood for a year.

By Nookah

June 13, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Let me put in my 2 cents. I am like a lot of people, very disaapointed that we resigned Woody. Regardless of what the playoff run was and what we did at home, the fact is that the man’s record is more than 100 games under 500. Furthermore we were chased off the floor by Boston in all our away losses in the playoffs. However, we must remember who gave Woody a vote of confidence at season’s end - JJ.

JJ is our “superstar” and team captain but he is certainly no leader. Let’s be honest, he has nothing to say to anyone during a game. Perhaps that’s just not his personality. The real leader on the floor and on this team is Horford. Perhaps with Bibby (if he remains a Hawk) here for the entire season he will be the leader and will be far more vocal than JJ will be. Someone alluded to earlier that Acie could be a leader if he is given the time on the floor and I totally agree with that view.

For those of you calling for Marvin to be traded, I disagree. He has shown continued improvement and this may be the year when he corrects most of his weaknesses. Do we realize how many times Marvin is getting to the line? He needs to work on his ball handling skills and body control when attacking the basket. I feel he get’s far too many offensive foul calls. I think he will be even better this year.

With Woody coming back what does it mean for Acie? I’m just hoping he will be mentored by Bibby and that he (Bibby) will be able to influence Woody to give Acie a more active roll. After all Woody seems to respect veterans much more.

The best we can hope for is that we resign both Joshes, we get a “BIG” who can provide some help for Al and that we get deeper on the bench and that finally Woody get’s it and realizes that he cannot ride his starters to death. Who will be the Assistants remains an intriguing question. Hopefully we can get someone with some clue about offense.

I’ll try however, to remain positive but Woody’s signing certainly instills no confidence in me. However, I’ll continue to say…………………………….

GO HAWKS!!!

Nuff Respect!!!

By travis

June 13, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

NOOKAH, KEN S., NAJEH, SEKOU, ANDO… oh don’t mind me, i am just taking the names of all of the people who didn’t want woody back, so when we turn things around next year, i don’t want to hear all of y’all talkin’ about…”Oh, I knew he was a helluva of a coach, the way he kept his arms folded, while looking pensively at his players.”

This year, Doc Rivers is a genius, last year he was reviled by Boston. I hate woody just as much as most of you, but his winning continued going up from 13, 26, 30, 37 plus a deep run in the playoffs. Hard to fire someone who is continually improving.

We had no point guard to start the season last year law was a rook. wit’ we was 15-15 wit’ bibby, imagine starting the season wit’ him.

GO HAWKS!!

By Astro Joe

June 13, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

travis, please add my name to your list. And keep in mind, I haven’t wanted dude back as our coach after his second season. So feel free to keep my name near the top of your list.

By SalimFan

June 13, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

……………

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

ditto for me

By newkid

June 13, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

travis, I’m in as well. That’s n-e-w-k-i-d.

By jhan

June 13, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

I don’t think anyone is confusing Doc Rivers with a genius coach. He has three of the best players in the league on his team. His GM has supplied him with adequate bench players to utilize.

The Celtics are winning with smothering defense. Even Doc give Thibodeau all the credit for developing the defensive strategy.

If Sund can give Woody a team like the Celtics, even he would have a hard time screwing that up.

By MannyT

June 13, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

I’m in on the didn’t want Woody back list…although it got to a point where I expected it.

If he finds the miracle thing to make him a better coach, I will be happy. However, I don’t have much hope for him.

At this point I’m more concerned about the assistants. Who stays? Who is/are the new assistants to replace those that leave? As we trickle down the org chain of PAIN—would an up and coming assistant come here? Why?

As for the Euro-ballers—don’t hate because they grow up in a different style of play. Given time, they will adapt some, but the coach needs to tweak what he does as well. Notice how most successful foreign players are in active, ball motion heavy offenses.

We don’t have any of those plays. If we don’t develop some…maybe we trade the David Andersen NBA rights to a team that can send us back a player or pick.

Woody’s place - WAFFLE

By wordsmithtom

June 13, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

If we can keep the cats that finished the season strong, then keeping a guy who knows them is not all bad. Big if. Time for the GM to earn his $.

But all this talk about Marvin Williams being soft. I don’t get it. He consistently got to the free throw line. He will miss game 1 of 08 season for a hard fowl during the playoffs….one he took for the team, mind you. He’s still a pup; his high school class will graduate this year, and he’s got three years under his belt. The school of hard knocks is a hard school. MW is much better today than the cat replaced with more upside.

He’s not Chris Paul. Get over it.

By travis

June 13, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

i really don’t think that there was an experienced coach who would have wanted to come here, with the ownership fight, etc. and at the price that ATL was willing to pay. That being said, who better than woody to bring in here?

i hear people screaming for avery johnson, well chicago, detroit, or phoenix didn’t think enuff about them to bring them own. all of those team went with brand new coaches.

what the hawks need to do now is build the team to the coaches style, trade marvin, zaza, and one of the joshes, maybe even bibby to bring in vet help, since woody hates youngsters so much.

Ando, mykhalc, newkid, sekou, ray, nookah, ken s., astro what other coach should they have brought in? chicago, detroit, phoenix didn’t even get the “best” bball mind out there, so how do you figure the hawks could have? I think they got the best for their money in woody.

By nookah

June 13, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

Travis,

One thing I can assure you of is that I’m man enough to say when I’m wrong. I’ll be more than happy to say I’m wrong next year, because it will mean that the Hawks are having a great season.

However, I have no problem with your observation. If you notice what I ended my post with was….GO HAWKS!!!..I’m a team man and only want the best for the Hawks. Trust me my brother I have no problem supporting the Hawks. Where I live (Jam-rock aka Jamaica), I have never been fortunate enough to meet another Hawk fan, and I’m very serious about that. I’ve been a Hawk fan only since the Doc Rivers days!!!!

GO WOODY - In the name of the Hawks, prove me wrong.

GO HAWKS!!!

Nuff Respect!!!! GO HAWKS!!!!

By cp

June 13, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

Add me to the list travis

By newkid

June 13, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

travis, I of course was not privy to the BASG’s internal discussions of their coaching options, so I’ve not one idea of what/who might have been considered. Indeed none of that factored into my view of Woody’s suitability, nor should it have. And of course I don’t fault Woody for the BASG’s decision to try jumping from the basement in a ‘diligent’ effort to commit suicide. I much prefer the Joe Dumars approach (i.e., “you’re damned right I’m making some changes…”). If I’m honest with myself in my quest to commit suicide, then I’m seeking the penthouse as the level from my which I launch.

After 4 years Woody’s record speaks volumes, and his handling of whatever talent at his disposal - no matter what we think of the quality of that talent - has been on display for all to inspect. And despite that history, the BASG - and presumably Sund - elected to re-sign him. That, in my narrow view, doesn’t even begin to approach the posture of an outfit like Detroit and a GM like Dumars who sacks a coach with a track record the likes of which Woody can only dream because he concluded that the guy - his impressive W/L record notwithstanding - couldn’t WIN there. If a championship is not what we seek to achieve EVERY YEAR, then I suppose Woody - or someone similar - works just fine for you. A wise man once told me that he’d never attempt to knock a steak off my plate, but he’d never allow me to deposit a porkchop on his. No, you and the BASG can have Woody and his well-demonstrated coaching skill set (or lack thereof). Send along to me the waiter (or waitress) who’s serving Avery Johnson or Doug Collins or D. Casey or Van Gundy or …..

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 13, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Travis, like you said yourself, this team is already improving. So for them to “turn things around”, as you put it, would actually mean they get worse. The truth is when you compare the team as it is right now with what it was when Woody first came here it would take an incredible level of suckery for a coach to NOT improve the team to its current level. Will they improve next year? Of course they will — their 3rd best player is a rookie and their 2nd best player is a 22-year-old. Will they improve next year as much as they would have if, say, Flip Saunders or Avery Johnson was our coach? No. So unless the Hawks end up in the East finals next year, or unless Woody magically learns how to coach offense, I’m still gonna be hating on Woody. You can bet that.

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

travis, i’m willing to bet that quite a few of the asst coaches are much better than WOODSON. i know an AVERYJ or DOUGC will not come here. but the fact is even if none of the asst coaches out there were any better than WOODSON the BASG could still have them cheaper!!! so business wise that’s a better move than re-signin’ WOODSON. but all a candidate would have to do is draw up 3 sets for SUND and he’s already put on paper 33% more sets than WOODSON has in his playbook today after 4yrs of thinkin’ about it!!! the cat $ucks…PERIOD!!! you need to look no futher than THEUS to see what can be done with a young roster and a creative HC. record-wise THEUS did in 1yr what has taken WOODSON 4yrs!!! again, the cat flat-out $ucks as a HC!!!!

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

and if the exerpt of WOODSON’s BOS speech was not enough for you to realize this cat has NOTHIN’ to offer then i’m at a total loss bro!!! first we witnessed the playbook and then we were subjected to the nothingness he brought in a playoff game speech!!! $hit play a past tape from LARRY BROWN!!! i’m sure he’s got archives!! CLUELESS!!! F’n CLUELESS!!!!!

By Astro Joe

June 13, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

travis, I hope the list of bloggers doesn’t blow-up your hard drive.

I would have gone with Bill Laimbeer, Alvin Gentry, Del Harris, Dwayne Casey, Tom Thibadeau, Brian Shaw, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Kurt Rambis or Mark Jackson, to name a few cheaper options.

Next big thing to pay attention to is if Sund influences the coaching staff. Let’s see if Casey, Derek Harper, Gentry or Bob Hill appear on Woody’s staff in the next 3-4 weeks. Surely, he’s not so “comfortable” that he will give Woody complete autonomy to name his eventual interim replacement.

By cp

June 13, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

mykhalc if you add in the injuries and the confrence that the Kings were in and it makes it even more impressive. Other than Brad Miller, Kevin Martin, Udrich, and Artest the Kings roster isnt very good yet they were a better team than the Hawks who played in a weak division.

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

JOE, cp, absolutely!!!

By Astro Joe

June 13, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/home.aspx

Go down to the section labeled “Afternoon Saloon” and click on Mike Woodson’s name to hear the interview around 6:00 this evening on 790 The Zone. I won’t provide any commentary, other than he was asked some good questions and mostly gave direct answers (obviously he dodged a few personnel questions). Check it out, only about 2-3 minutes.

By MannyT

June 13, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

travis

If you take the meddling ownership out of the way…here’s how this should have played out on the cheap.

Woody catches fire(d) during season.

Drew becomes interim (which is the only way he’d get a real shot at the job.)

If Drew did well, he is your coach of the future after having a 2-3 month try before you buy. As a 1st time coach, he would have cost less than Woody.

If he didn’t work out, take the slow moving ownership ways to right now. Every other opening is filled. Either Thibodeau signs with us or he has to wait another year for a shot as a head coach.

Yes, I skipped over my preferred candidate for the job (Carlisle) because the ASG’s pitch would pale in comparison to coaching for the Cubillionaire.

My emergency fallbacks from these would have been to swoop in and get a guy that has had success as an assistant, has recent experience working with a young team, and would and will probably be more successful in his 2nd run as a head coach—Jim Lynam or Darrell Walker.

(Which is honestly what I believe will happen to Woody after he flops here and goes back to assistant gig for a few years.)

None of these are sexy hires, but all are people we could get that would do as well as Woody on the same cheapo budget.

There’s a lot of CRAP that is better than our PAIN.

By MannyT

June 13, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe Thanks for reminding me about the Blues Brothers coaching staff.

I’d consider giving Laimbeer/Mahorn a run at the top job…probably in that interviewing tier if Drew didn’t work out as interim.

If Sund doesn’t put a few names on a list for Woody to include as an assistant, what value does his 300 years of NBA experience bring? Both sides have to put up something in an arranged marriage.

mykhalc that televised clip was another nail in the Wood man! Larry Brown’s wisdom may precede the coach on video thing, but Woody should have been able to remember something useful. I still remember useful & amusing coach speak from the 1980s and I have a very average memory.

Maybe Woody needs some memory tattoos.

The Legend of WAFFLE grows.

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

CLUELESS!!! he doesn’t concern himself with the 37 wins!!! CLUELESS!! but then again, he is the coach that said we can’t control our record!!! (paraphrasin’!!!) CLUELESS!!!! i like him even less now!!! CLUELESS!!!! F’n CLUELESS!!!

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

MannyT, i’m talkin’ audio of LBROWN bro!! he coulda turned it on and left the f’n room!!! SIMPLE!!!

By MannyT

June 13, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

mykhalc if he plays a LB tape, that’s not coaching. If he tells a LB story in his own way, that is coaching. (Think of it like a comic doing stand up. I can tell your joke in my own way, but I’m in trouble if I stand there and roll your tape.)

If he looks back at the 37 wins, Woody has some ‘splainin’ to do. By ignoring that part, he doesn’t have to deal with moonwalking into the playoffs.

He also got a pass on getting torched every game in Boston.

He also got a pass on that short bench in the playoffs BS as an excuse for not developing his bench all season. Last I checked, the NBA playoffs don’t dictate bench time in January when he was stinking out the joint.

Woody’s extension is like passing a kid to the next grade that got Ds for most of the year, but he pulled a B on the final. I can live with it, but don’t tell me he deserves the honor roll.

I was done hating when it became clear that Gearon had Woody’s back. Time to move on.

I hope AC kills it in summer league. I just wonder how they are going to fill out that team.

travis I’m going out on a limb and guessing that there will be more bloggers on your list that don’t approve.

as I borrow from Heroes

Are YOU on the List?

WAFFLE

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

MannyT, i think i’m gonna have to put disclaimers on my posts bro!!! my sarcasism and facetiousness doesn’t stick or translate, i guess!!! ok, here’s one…if WOODSON stays in the room that ain’t coachin’ either!!! no i take that back. that’s a truth!!!!

By new jersey faithful

June 13, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!

By SalimFan

June 13, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

Just listend to the 790 the zone interview with Woodson……WOW….Burn in hell buddy Jeez. “We need more shooters” What??? And he completley avoided the Salim Stoudamire question.

Woody as soon as you signed on the dotted line Salim wasn’t going to come back b/c you have to THE DUMBEST coach in the leauge. Complete Idiot. Anyone with an ounce of basketball IQ can tell you that woodson doesn’t manage game situations well. In particular, putting the correct players in the game in order to gain an advantage.

Sund as of now you’re on my s** list. This has nothing to do with salim not coming back. It’s just the fact that you’re setting the team up for falure and blocking them from reaching their full potential by keeping woodson in ATL. When the s** hits the fan I will be calling for Sund’s head.

Last night was a perfect example of what shooters and spacing can do for an offense. Woodson has absolutely no understanding of that concept. Not to mention his poor personell relationships with certain players.

“Be Positive”???????? That’s hard to do when you F-up all the time. If I ever see that guy in a supermarket or somthin’ i’ll show him some “Positive Reinforcement”. He mentioned every player BUT my guy on pourpose……not that it matters considering he won’t be back and i’ll be rooting for whatever team he lands with (and the hawks). What a waste of three years. SS is (26) and probably more “Vet” Material leadership-wise than joe(27) will ever be.

There is absolutely no excuse when you have two PROVEN Head Coaches who have either been to the Confrence Finals Or the NBA Final round, not to mention rediculous winning percentages and you don’t even ATTEMPT to interview them???? Talk about shady and not smart. We all knew he was the ASG’s “Do-Boy” but not even an interview????? You’ve even got ESPN reporters suggesting premier Coaches in the leauge for the position…… it absolutely makes no sense whatsoever. TRASH, Complete Garbage. If we had a competent Owner there’s no way this would fly.

Someone please buy out the BAASG and stop the PAIN.

By ray

June 13, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

I still have to wonder if Sund even had a choice with Woody. And that could have sprung from two different things: The ASG’s involvment, and the lack of funds (or marketability) of coaching a franchise with such crappy, sloppy owners. Might have been a combination of both.

I am waiting to see what Sund can cook up in the way of players moves. I see that Woodson is already making suggestions (we need more shooters). I’ll say this much as well: let Sund get Woody what he wants. When the team can’t play at least .500 ball, FIRE HIS A$$. No excuses (well, except massive injury problems).

Heh. I wonder how ol’ Travis felt after nearly the whole dang blog asked to be added to his little list…Oh, and Travis…you can add me too. And we’ll remember you when things go downhill.

By MannyT

June 13, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

My bad myk To me, the frustration seems to come through more than the humor. I guess I see it that way because I used to be really frustrated by Woody. Now he’s kinda like the Dan Quayle of NBA coaches to me.

As long as the guy at the top of the ticket (Gearon) keeps rolling, you gotta tolerate his VP, uh coach.

At least you can change the channel on your NBA League Pass. I’ve got a season of this w/o refunds.

But there is an upside…if he unexpectedly does well, it’s a good thing. If he stinks out the joint, there will be enough empty seats that I can have a seat for my popcorn, another for my beverage, another for a foot rest…about $200-300 of space at retail face value.

Maybe I’ll start selling WAF + PAIN = WAFFLE shirts ;-)

By ray

June 13, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

MannyT, it’s funny how that works. If the team does well with Woody, then those of us who doubted get to say “sorry” and move on. But if he doesn’t….the PAIN just continues. Talk about a catch-22….

By david

June 13, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

When it’s a first time hire (4 years ago, you don’t know what to expect)you can only hope for the best. When it’s going into the fifth year you can’t be like maybe Woodson can get us to the next level. You have to know by the fifth year. You have to know he’s not the guy to take us where we want to be. There is no longer a mystery of “Can he coach” after 4 years. You know by then. Keeping him is a tragedy IF YOU WANT to be in the upper echlon of the NBA. I’ve been an NBA freak for 35 years. It doesn’t take years and years and years to turn a program around. It’s takes intelligence. From coaching and the GM and ownership. It takes talent and chemistry and motivation. Keeping Woodson is a decision that I can barely live with. I love this team I wish the owners did the same.

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

MannyT, no worries bro!!! in this case the ridiculous of my statement was too show JUST how much ANYTHING (tape/audio or video) woulda been better than that piece of $hit speech he gave!! in fact, it can’t even qualify as a speech. it was more like a cluster @uck!!!

but i know that if we were at PHILIPS with DOC and the gang, you’d get were i’m comin’ from no matter how sarcastic it might be!!! somethings do get lost in the cyber translation!!!;o)

By terrell barron

June 13, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

With Woody’s job still being on the line, I cant see him playing the young guys any more than he did last year. UNLESS, he and Sund came to some sort of agreement about player development. Because like I said earlier, if we start off slow, his azz is grass. Maybe its a good thing we brought him back. HE HAS TO PROVE HIMSELF FROM DAY 1. No more of that “this is a young team”, or “we just did’nt come to play tonight”, or “lets see if we can bounce back tomorrow night” s**. You got your shot Woody. Do something about it!!

By mykhalc

June 13, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

s/b ridiculousness of my statement

By terrell barron

June 13, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

Salimfan, after listening to that afternoon saloon interview, I think ya boy is outta here.

By Ken Strickland

June 13, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

TRAVIS-when you atart out with only 13 wins, there’s nowhere else to go but up. If the talent you have works hard in the off season, which our young players did, and you add talent each yr, why wouldn’t the won/loss record improve each yr. That has little to do with coaching.

Woodson’s coaching, or lack there of, reduced Salim from a cocky, confident pure shooter to a sulking, inconsistent disappointment. He took a very condident and talented ALaw, who established a reputation as a clutch performer, and turned him into an inconsistent player that couldn’t make a jumpshot, while trying not to make a mistake. He took Zaza, a 2yr starter and consistent performer, and turned him into an inconsistent 3rd string center.

Richardson, West and Solomon ended up being nothing more than they were when the season started. Why, because they were never given a chance to improve anything but their bench posture. If you’re going to reward anyone for the Hawks playoff run and performance, it should be the person(s) responsible. We were inconsistent and out of the playoff running until Bibby arrived. Woodson almost ruined that by over playing Bibby and playing him while he was still recovering from a previous injury. Even after injuring his foot, Woodson forced him to play long mins instead of giving him a couple of gms off to get proper treatment to recuperate.

This reminds me of Crimmons, the old GA Tech HC that used to play 6 players and refused to develop and/or use his bench. He would always do well during the regular season, but would ultimately get whipped during the NCAA tournament. He couldn’t coach X’s and O’s or couldn’t manage players mins, so he limited his rotation and put the fate of the team and the season in the hands of 6 players. Teams figured out that if they pressured his team, they’d wilt down the stretch. Does any of this sound familar? Because That’s exactly what teams now do to the Hawks. That’s why we’ve blown so many 2nd half leads.

THIS TEAM ACCOMPLISHED WHAT IT DID LAST SEASON IN SPITE OF WOODSON, NOT BECAUSE OF HIM.

By SalimFan

June 13, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

Ray and David,

Yes, Sund sort of gets a pass just because of the fact that he came into a messy situation. Coming in and firing a Head Coach and you don’t know a thing about him. But that Didn’t stop Donnie Walsh from firing Isiah Thomas. So yes we all know this has everything to do with the ASG’s influence and their “cheap-azz-ness”. If woodson were coaching in NY he would be out of a job just like his good buddy LB (No pun intended, I like LB)

Still we all know that what woody wants is CRAP. Shooters….fine, as long as Sund doesn’t destroy the team getting what woody wants.

BK realized that in order for the team to grow somone had to leave…..and it wasn’t ANY of his prized draft picks.

I remember BK justifying waiving Tony Delk B/C of that veteran clause and not re-sighning him because (in his words) “Salim is averaing 9.9 PPG in 19 minutes of play, and they play the same position. I have complete faith in Salim going forward as our Guard.” That quote was back in 2006. That quote was AFTER Salim had been suspeded for “Conduct Detremental to team” (AKA Pouting after coming out of games lol). So it’s clear that BK had complete faith in his players.

Obviously Woodson Didn’t agree and things have changed since then (Much to BK’s Dismay). Acie Law is another Example, overplaying an INJURED Bibby….

I hope Sund already realizes that Woodson isn’t THE GUY. And is just biding his time until he has probable cause to justify making a move.

By david

June 13, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

And by the way Salimfan I like Salim too. I think he could be a weapon. But he never will be here. He hates Woodson like we do. How bout the people that say he’s just a spot up shooter? Do they ever think that might be because of his wonderful coach. It’s like a player that plays 1 minute a game and get laughed at for averaging 0.5 points a game. If you put a player in to help catch up, with a brain wouldn’t you consider playing that player to try to get a lead. Just thinking. Woodson is the worst coach for him AND Smith AND Childress and Acie and me. Look at that picture posted of him on ajc.com real carefully. What a goober.

By SalimFan

June 13, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

TB, Yup. But I knew if Woodson was coming back, Salim wouldn’t even pick up a phone call from the Hawks Front offices.

He’s not stupid and He defently wouldn’t want to stick around for the PAIN.

By SalimFan

June 14, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

David, I completly agree with you.

By RealSquawk

June 14, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this

You know listening to this video Mike Woodson says all the right things. It is to most of what he says are lies, but like I said this is going to take care of itself

By Nookah

June 14, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

OK Guys,

Woody has now signed much to the chagrin of many of us except Travis and a very quiet Samuel. However, that’s a reality now.

Any suggestions on a possible BIG and a possible shooter that would fit this team? Let’s be realistic and look at those that are available. Ideas anyone?

With no draft picks now we’ll see how good Sund is.

GO HAWKS!!!

Nuff Respect!!!

By cp

June 14, 2008 1:30 AM | Link to this

After Astro Joe* brought up that great point about player development I thought about how bad it will be this season. As I said earlier, look how Woody shortned up his rotation once he was fighting to save his job. What do you think he will do now because he know as soon as the team stumbles he is out of here. If guys actually get off the bench they better not mess up or they will be pulled quickly. Only in Atlanta would a guy get rewarded for 3 playoff wins and have all the underachieving overlooked. Somebody has to buy this team from the B.A.S.G.

By doc

June 14, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

the interview with woody was evasive at best in every sense of the word. no straight answers except to say the mantra of i am positive and you should be too. he also seem so have read the blog or maybe is one of us as the questioned what so many here have questioned that there is a need for another big and a shooter. yes, what that means is he never trusted salim and for all you solo fans he is not the answer either. finally, what they do in the off season regarding acie will be dictated by whether they see him redeeming himself in rookie league, otherwise expect a push to sign lue back as protection or someone similar. it also says that he didnt develop players and didnt know how to manage a roster of more than 8 players on a given night because he has his set rotations that are dictated by nothing more than, that is who he is going to play.

funny how with all the injuries and a lack of a point guard the year before he won 7 less playing some guys he couldnt trust and doing almost as well. finally he seems to rely on the 15 of 22 “run” to seal his credentials against a very weak schedule that even the owners suggested as the reason to wait on deciding woody’s fate. sund wll be shaking his head like we do soon into the season especially if he gets some bodies and woody doesnt have a clue as to how to fit them in.

bottom line the past season’s success boiled down to two good runs during about 40 games where they were actually over .500 ball. the flip side is how bad they were for the other half of the season about 15 games below .500 at least.

as a positive consideration in making the decision to keep woody in light of the coaching turnover may play out for the good in the early part of the season when four teams in the east are trying to adjust to a new coaching regime. that might win us a head start, if it doesnt it will be a long season.

there are now at least three more legs to the off season since the draft is not one of them. the first is how and who will be re-signed. obviously the two major players in the puzzle are the two joshes. the second will give us an idea of how the insiders feel about going forward with woody as assistants have to be hired. who will they be and who re-ups? that will be a telling story as to the overall faith in woody around the league. third, who are the vets that are brought in? finally and for those counting yes i slyly added a fourth point, what is the final cost to the owners and have we really begun to see them put their money where their collective mouths are or are they going to look for blind luck to get them into the playoffs again?

how do you really feel salim?

manny t great line up there about having extra retail space if the team comes out slow in the chute.

on a different note, nice run by the C’s. i think they have finally grown up as the playoffs continue and DOC is getting his chops. they are doing now what they did in the regular season by dominating with their tenacious defense and will and have got the third piece in the flow of things in ray allen. if allen was on his game then the early contests against the hawks and the cavs would not have been competitive. overall woody might have won his job because ray ray was absent for the most part looking a bit lost out there as he felt his way on defense and on offense looking for his role and place. that may be where the hoopla of the wins in the playoffs got lost between the feel good stuff and reality, and no it isnt cool to be blown out and non-competitve as they were in boston. the implications of the slaughter that now looks like it is gong to be of the lakers, is that in the end this has the potential to be a team held together for a few more years and runs to the finals and maybe a return of the dynasty to boston for a three peat.

now where does that leave the hawks? four legs to go in the offseason.

By reddawg

June 14, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Hire Ted Turner as coach. He is at least entertaining; something the hawks have not been since the Wilkens days. Non capitalization of hawks name intentional and well earned under present ownership.

By Ken Strickland

June 14, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

NOOKAH-it doesn’t matter what BIG or shooter we get. If Woososn doesn’t like or feel comfortable with either of them for any reason, they’ll ride the pines. Woodson has consistently shown he’s not comfortable developing young players or managing players mins.

Even if we added another BIG, instead of adding him to the rotation, Woodson would likely play him in place of Zaza. Adding another shooter to replace Salim would only give Richardson a new bench companion. Unless Woodson decides to assume the responsibility of managing players, their mins, and developing a bench, it doesn’t matter who or what we add to the roster.

Consider this. Woodson has refused to change his coaching style and approach toward his players despite massive losses. Now that he’s been rewarded by our SAASG for staying the course and not giving in to what’s best overall for the team, what is his incentive for changing his previous approach to coaching the team?

WOODSON ISN’T WHAT’S WRONG WITH THE HAWKS. HE’S JUST A REFLECTION OR INDICATION OF WHANT’S WRONG WITH THE SAASG.

By doc

June 14, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

amen ken, sing to the choir.

By Sautee

June 14, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

WOW

I go play a gig and come back to all of this. Some GREAT postings, guys and girls. Lemme catch up here.

Travis

Absolutely add me to your list. If Woodson continues the improvement (let’s say they win 44 which would be another 7 game improvement like this year) I’ll gladly say I was wrong.

Also, you were excited by the 15-15 record with Bibby? The Hawks were 15-12 to begin the season with Law and AJ at the point.

Ken S

That was a powerful, cogent, and sadly all too true post at 9:33. Great analysis.

Najeh

You explained your self well. I was only pokin’ at you for the sweeping generalization of your statement. And all things being equal, I’ll take the more aggressive player, regardless of origin.

And, if you’ll check my earlier post you’ll see that I already pinged Samuel for putting Ginobili in with Euros.

And by the way, it wasn’t about race, but rather,(as I said at first), the painting with a broad brush. I think we see each other well, now.

Astro Joe

“1-2 members of the marathon club will end up hurt (Bibby, Smith, JJ or Horford) and Woody will then claim that he couldn’t win because the team was hurt by injuries. (Which had nothing to do with working them like a rented mule)”.

All too true, I’m afraid. Several posters have mentioned Bibby’s injury, without acknowledging that overall the Hawks had a relatively injury free year. If the best they could do being mostly healthy is 37 wins, what will happen when a starter misses major minutes? And it’s unfortunately more likely than not. You made a great point.

MannyT

Man, you got me howling!!

I particularly loved the example of the all D’s student. (9:08 if any want a good laugh). And Woody as the Dan Quayle of coaching. Perfect!

doc

I think your argument has legs. ;-)

Ray

The only thing that makes sense is that the BASG decided not to commit (or to only commit as little as possible) to the head coach position until after the February divorce. Nothing else makes any sense.

By femhawkfan

June 14, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

ASSISTANT FIZDALE LEAVES THE TEAM Everyday, I receive google news alerts about anything slightly related to the Hawks and look what I found on the Miami Herald website:

Atlanta Hawks assistant coach David Fizdale, a former Heat assistant video coordinator, will join Erik Spoelstra’s Heat coaching staff.

The Heat decided to hire Fizdale instead of having assistant Keith Askins move to the Heat’s bench. Askins will remain behind the bench. Teams can have no more than three assistant coaches on the bench, and those will be lead assistant Ron Rothstein, Bob McAdoo and Fizdale.

Fizdale, 33, worked with Spoelstra on the Heat’s video staff in 1997-98. He worked for the Hawks for four seasons and also served as an assistant at Fresno State, the University of San Diego (where he was an all-conference point guard) and the NBA’s Golden State Warriors.

So now we know that at least one assistant will have to be replaced. I am also guessing that other assistants maybe looking for other jobs that provide more security.

By Malone

June 14, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

How bad would we have to start to justify Sund firing Woodson?

Do you think Woodson wants Bibby back?

By Sautee

June 14, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Samuel

“I’m still confused about me bashing and entire continent based on their race. Are you saying that Europe is a race or not?”

Sam, I know you are smart enough to get my point. Don’t parse the words to try and get away from it. The word their can, as you know very well, denote a collective OR an individual connection to (in this case -race). Would it help if I said that you are bashing an entire continent of people based upon their individual origins and collective geography? Gimme a break. You knew what I meant.

If someone on this blog used the term “Afro-punk” would it bother you?

Maybe, maybe not, but you KNOW my point, bro.

And like I told Najeh, this is more about sweeping generalizations than about any specific race.

Now here are the long lost (for you) questions: (and apologies to the blog for those of you reading this for the third time)

Samuel

Imagine for just a moment that your own teams had to play 48 minute games instead of 32. How successful would you be with a bench of 1.5 players? (And yes I’m exaggerating for the sake of making a point)

And did you notice that Phil Jackson (who you say you are a fan of) went TEN deep, even though it’s the Finals?

Is there any situation where you can imagine Woody going ten deep?

Just out of curiosity (and I’m not trying to make a point here) how important at your level is developing a reliable bench?

That to me has been Woody’s greatest sin. And whether or not they overachieved in the playoffs, for me it doesn’t offset that lacking.

Also, there’s a direct correlation between:

a: they only won 37 games and limped to the finish. and

b: they challenged the best team in the league at least at home in the playoffs.

If they could do (b), then why could they only do (a)?

COACHING! Or lack of it, in my opinion, but what’s yours?

And another question regarding your teams - in the playoffs, are they already fired up, or is it your coaching that does it?

When players know they have a bigger stage, it’s normal for them to want to “rise to the occasion”. Just look at the raised level of performances on Monday Night Football as an example.

Do you truly think that the Hawks inspired play at home in the playoffs was all due to Woody?

How about the crowd? How about playing on National TV? How about measuring themselves against the best?

I was absolutely thrilled to see them rise up.But I have a hard time believing that Woody had much to do with it. But tell me, if you will, exactly what you think he did to make a difference in Games 3,4 and 6. And also tell me why that didn’t translate to the road games?

Please don’t think that I’m disparaging your coaching abilities. These are questions that your earlier posts raised for me.

peace

By SalimFan

June 14, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Mark Bradley?? Tell it like it is Homie!!!Lol

Also, I did not know that Herb Brown was fired. Man…..

By doc

June 14, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

salim where did that info come from?

By MannyT

June 14, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

doc someone posted that Herb Brown comment on Bradley’s blog. I have not seen anything to confirm it.

By MannyT

June 14, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

femhawkfan This was really no surprise. I wonder if Drew does same or waits to see if he can benefit from suboptimal season…the interim gig he almost got this time to elevate him to head coaching ranks.

I think Alton Lister stays. Horford makes him look real effective.

Not sure about Bender.

Check Paul Harvey post from early blog on June 12

I’ll have to consider renting out my Predictive Event Sphere of Truth yup PEST! You may be annoyed by what it says, but it often speaks the truth ;-0

Now is the time for Sund to show he adds value to the organization. The new assistants should be acceptable to both Woody and Sund.

Looking into the PEST, I see new assistants that are likely to have at least 2 of the following traits:

Works well with young players

Hot prospect on the rise to that lower level of assistant coach (not to the top assistant level)

Offensive innovator

Will work for cheap pay…

Which leads me to another thought. A significant upgrade of the team this year may require the ASG to fork over more cash to Belkin. I smell legal resolution before significant team upgrade.

Understanding that Woody’s positivity is all Janet Jackson like—i.e. What Have You Done For Me Lately I won’t look back to his playoff work when we are in late December.

If I applied that point of view to this blog,

I’d ignore all the good points doc made at 9:03 and say, we’ve got a great thing going. It’s got legs.

The 11:58 Sautee post is about appreciating coaching ability. Woody would thank you for the nice words.

WAFFLE

By DAP01

June 14, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Obviously, the decision to hire Woody was what was best for the ownership group. BECAUSE IT CERTAINLY WAS NOT THE BEST THING FOR THE TEAM.

The team’s progress has just been slowed.

By doc

June 14, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

it sends shivers down my back to wonder is woody the coach that started the season at 13 and 8 and then had his “run” of 15 and 7 which he brings up to his defense or is he the coach that managed a team last year with minimal injuries to win 9 of 39 games the rest of the year? that might be the rest of the story as his overall winning percentage is yup about .250. now which is he? seems like only looking at the positive got him his job back excluding his true body of work. i just doubt mr welch of GE fame would have sen it that way for his lead managers, success one out of four quarters.

By RaJaH

June 14, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

I keep hearing people say Woody deserves another chance because he put the Hawks in the playoffs. That’s not true! The Hawks had one of the easiest schedules remaining in the league and STILL couldn’t take the 8th seed! It just so happened that Indiana couldn’t win out either.

Anyways, what kind of organization rehires a coach with a 30% winning percentage? What kind of organization rehires a coach that coaches to his team’s weakness. What kind of organization rehires a coach that never holds himself accountable.

Sure we took Boston to a 7 game series but that doesn’t mean Woody deserves an extension.

Remember: -Woody is the same coach that runs the same play out of EVERY time out.

-Woody is the same coach that we see getting out coached by other coaches AS WELL AS his own players(how many times did we see Anthony Johnson and Mike Bibby get flustered in huddles?)

-Woody is the same coach that called the time out when Josh Smith was leading a fast break!

-Woody is the same coach that refuses to develop his bench, make smart in-game substitutions, and make any half time adjustments!

Like someone said earlier the goal for anyone making decisions for the Hawks is to put the best product on the floor. If the best is Woody then……

By Ken Strickland

June 14, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

FEMHAWKFAN-you must remember that a couple of the current assistant coaches are on the team only because they were denied the opportunity to seek other jobs last yr. LDrew, and maybe one other assistant, would be fools to seek other imployment. There is no doubt Woodson’s 2yr extension is tenuous at best. If he’s dismissed anytime but the off season, he’d likely be replaced by an assistant.

This team only needs a HC that is willing to unshackle the OFF, develop the bench, and manage the players and their mins intelligently. We could be one of the most feared teams in the NBA. Our combination of youth, speed, quickness, depth and athleticism is unmatched. It just has to be properly utilized, and Woodson has demonstrated he’s not up to the task.

By ray

June 14, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Good points, everybody.

MannyT, I’m glad you’re humor is still working. I think mine has completely dried up. Your acronyms are better and better every day. Too funny.

I wonder if there’s any use mincing words about what assistants will be brought in for Woody. After all, his world is still law (thanks to the extension) on the bench…and he’s a control freak. What makes any of us think that dude will actually listen to or implement anything that anybody else says? So Fizdale is gone, and so is Herb Brown? Wow. Who else will fly the coup? Will they get replaced by useless yes-men? Hard to say, but my optimism is trickling out by the last few drops…

I have nothing else to say about Woodson until the season starts. Or until he says something else. 16 more days until July 1st. I get the feeling…it will be more PAIN, PAIN, PAIN, PAIN, PAIN.

By Samuel

June 14, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

WOW,

Talk about ganging up on Yoy Boy. You guys make me feel important. Especially since it turns out that I was the only person here that call this one right. I’ll side with a 30 year NBA man over a bunch of bloggers who oviously no very little about the game.

I caught my girl, Tan White, last night at Phillips. She dominated. That’s my girl. WNBA, I love it. You guys need to take in one of the Dream games, good stuff.

By Melvin

June 14, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Uh, why couldn’t Tim Tucker slip in a few questions about the state of Hawks affairs with the Gearon’s for his article…. Rookie…

By Nookah

June 14, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

Hey KenS,

Just read your response. My only response is “Word”!!! I guess a leopard will never change it’s spots. I truly hope for the Hawks and us as fans sake, we have a good season next year. Does anybody think Woody will get it? Perhaps as I said before a leopard will never change its spots.

KenS as usual I always enjoy reading your posts.

GO HAWKS!!!

Nuff Respect!!!

By mykhalc

June 14, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

you’re the SAMUEL that HATED the SUND pick right??? yeah thought so!!!

By Nookah

June 14, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

Seriously though guys, which BIG and SHOOTER would you all like to see come here?

Let’s forget Woody’s coaching ability for the moment. Just 2 names that are available.

Nuff Respect!!!

By Melvin

June 14, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Nookah, Shooter- Mike Miller/JR Smith/Jarvis Hayes.

Big Man- Diop/Stromile Swift/Jamaal Magloire/Patrick O’bryant

By doc

June 14, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

samuel, you are to much as you initially trashed the pick of sund. talking about recreating history. cant remember exactly but seems he didnt meet one of your major requirements and it wasnt experience based.

how about the man TIGER. talk about huge.

By Malone

June 15, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

Where is the official word on assistant coaches? I can’t find anything!

Why hasn’t Sekou kept us up-to-date on this?

By ray

June 15, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this

Heh.

Doc, pretty ironic 180 wasn’t it? First the old white guy isn’t good enough…and not as good as Billy. Now he’s not just good enough, he’s better than “all the rest of us.” Heh. Too funny for words….At least most of us knew COMING IN that the old white guy is a lot wiser than any of us with his 30 years of experience…

Sautee, looks like your honest and inoffensive questions were neatly side-stepped…ONCE AGAIN. You may as well give it up, my friend.

Nookah, it would be great to mince words and toss out names about who we should be getting in the “big” and “shooter” department. But we haven’t even dealt with our own RFAs yet. Personally, I’m not even into it, now that I know Woody’s going to be here still. It almost doesn’t matter who we get if they’re not used correctly. Oh no! What if they’re not “ready to play” according to the Woodson assessment?

MannyT

I have a new acronym, submitted for your approval (seeing as how you’re the master of acronyms):

W.A.R.P.T (Woody’s Assessment and Rules for Playing Time) Of course, one need not use the periods in between the letters, but I did so for effect…If you like it, use it…and copyright it. Submitted for approval, O Master of Acronymical Magic in the Kingdom of SekousBlog, in the land of Hawksfanville.

By ray

June 15, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

So where are all the other professional bloggers right now? I mean, only professionals are up this time of night (or morning if you prefer)…heh, heh, heh! Well, according to some people anyway…

By MannyT

June 15, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

Samuel using my Woody positivity, I only see a recommendation to check out the Dream. I was there for the home opener and I hope to make another game or two. Do they have an air cannon yet? If not, they can rent one. At the opener they threw all the t-shirts. Nothing got beyond 6 rows.

ray if I were Sund, I would not let Woody fill the bench with people he can control. Face it, Fits & Drew were ready to go last year. I doubt they were agreeing with everything Woody had to say in coaches meetings. Sund has to position the staff to have a viable interim if Woody doesn’t change.

doc that Woods guy is ok, but Woody positivity draws me to Brent Snedeker. He had the low 3rd round. Get on the plane to Vegas and get you bet in NOW!

Even though folks will hate on Mickelson, I still love watching him ever since he battled Payne Stewart at the US Open. Today reminded me of Kevin Costner in Tin Cup

…and if Jack Welch had anything to do with this team, I doubt the ownership issue would have ever gotten this far. His thoughts on keeping the coach can be summarized in one word—termites! Woody would have never been around for the playoffs.

Nookah Woody and Sund have to sit down and work through some plans before the draft (just in case a trade offer presents itself.) Sund has a lot of seats to fill, both in the stands and more importantly on the bench.

PEST says even if he brings back Mario (likely) and Jeremy (iffy) while keeping the Joshes (about 60% chance that one goes in sign & trade), an asset will leave this team to add someone that will be expected to start at center. That asset could be the rights to David Andersen if Woody isn’t comfortable with his game (based on tape review.)

The 3 pt shooter will appear via the budget plan. No major trade or investment for a shooter. We won’t give up major value for a shooter because big time shooters are expensive…maybe Jarvis Hayes/Eddie House/Juan Dixon/Euro guard cheap. (Keep in mind that we still struggle to be an attractive destination for free agents. Woody’s bench policies don’t help when looking for a shooter.)

A sign & trade center is very dependent on the team that does the deal, but in the budget big man pool you will find options like Diop, Hollins, O’Bryant, Mihm, Foyle, Skinner, Brezec

Sund & Woody on the same page could be good CRAP…otherwise their collaboration is a Sund A(wful) WAFFLE

By MannyT

June 15, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

ray I like WARPT.

Makes me also think Woody’s Assessment for Court Time ;-)

Dropping my professional blogger card for the night—time for zzzzzzzz

Malone no official statements from the Hawks on guys that leave at the end of their contracts, which is what Fitsdale is doing. There should be a news posting when they hire his replacement.

I’d be surprised if Brown was actually fired. Why not let his contract run out and move on?

WAFFLE

By SalimFan

June 15, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Carlos Delfino Is a Free Agent……But he probably won’t be cheap.

I Suspect Brown askecd for a Buyout??

To got to Charlotte with his brother who actually KNOWS how to coach???

Maybe…

By Sautee

June 15, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Samuel

Why did you ask me to repost questions that you now refuse to answer?

peace

By SalimFan

June 15, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

This NBADraft.net article breaks the Hawks situation down….Like Ando’s done so many times in the past lol.

Good article….

By SalimFan

June 15, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Man…Way to bash Donta Smith. Besides, he just won a Euroleauge championchip with Bulgaria lol.

Now Qyntell Woods was a bust. First round JUCO draft pick….complete waste.

By Ken Strickland

June 15, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

SALIMFAN-excellent article, thanks. Pewrsonally, I think we would be a better team if we did a sign and trade with JSmith instead of Marvin or Chills. Smoove’s overall value could definitely get us a big, like Pryzbilla, or a high draft pick. Move Horford to PF and our lineup becomes bigger, stronger and more balanced. We’ll have improved rebounding, outside shooting and better DEF. With a big 7’1” shot blocker, we could defend the post straight up, without having to double team so much. That would allow us to stay home and defend the 3pt shot.

If we resign Smoove and trade Chills, we would still have a frontline comprised of forwards. We’d still have to help Horford with double teams, which would continue to make us vulnerable to the outside shot, especially from 3pt range. With Woodson’s unwillingness to develop or utilize his bench, the loss of Chills would leave us with no versatility, consistency, efficiency or bench.

Losing Smoove would cost us some speed, versatility, athleticism and excitement,. But gaining a legit shotblocking, rebounding 5, and moving Horford to PF, would make us bigger, better balanced, and a better team overall. And, we’d still be able to play an uptempo OFF.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

By terrell barron

June 15, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

First off, lets get a deal done with the Joshes. Then sign one of these sg’s: Shannon Brown, Roger Mason Jr, or Jarvis Hayes. And a sf: Trevor Ariza, Devin Brown, or Mickael Peitrus. If possible, trade Bibby’s contract to Toronto for TJ Ford(or we could just go with Bibby/Law). And then sign Diop, Ratliff, Elson, O’Bryant, or Melvin Ely. Here’s MY Roster for 2008-2009 PG: Bibby/Law or Ford/Law SG: JJ/Shannon Brown/Chills SF: Ariza/Chills/Smoove PF: Smoove/Horford C: Horford/Elson Role Players: Marvin/Solomon/Mario/Zaza
SIMPLE! Even the BASG can put this roster together.

By SalimFan

June 15, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Me Personally, I’m a spender. If I was the sole Owner like Marc Cuban. First I would sign our needs. Like a shooting guard(Shannon Brown) and a Bug (Diop or Elson).

Since you can go over the cap signing your own players. I would then sign Smoove, Chills, and David Andersen.

This gives us plenty of weapons to trade with in Andersen, Bibby, ZAZA, J-Rich, and possibly even Diop in order to get something better.

Moving a few of those players at the deadline for one Big-time player should put us closer to being under the cap than prior to the trades.

Getting back under the cap also depends on how the contracts are set up. Are the players getting the Bulk of their money now, or in the later years of their contracts?

By SalimFan

June 15, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

With a complete roster like that. We have TONS of options as far as trading goes. We can do whats best in order to gain cap relief.

Usually dealing Draft day is the easiest way to gain good prospects of cap space. Smoove or Chills would gain us a 1st round pick and a NBA vet if we wanted.

By Sautee

June 15, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Ken S

This time I’ll have to disagree. If Smoove’s overall value only allows us to get Pryzbilla, then I’d rather sit pat. Or trade for a decent pick.

Pryzbilla IS a serviceable big, but I don’t see him as equal value for Smoove. Not even close IMHO.

If we sign-and-trade Smoove, I’d want a more athletic big like Camby in return. Don’t know if Joel could get up and down the court like we’d like to do. Of course he’d get playing time under Woody… he’s a veteran that is best suited for halfcourt.

And yeah, Denver would likely NOT do it, and yeah, there are very few bigs with Camby like skills.

But you asked for our thoughts.

peace

By Sautee

June 15, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Ando

Happy First Father’s Day, bud.

peace

By Melvin

June 15, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

If the Hawks decide to S&T JSmoove (in which I disagree with) than they better get more in than Marcus Camby or Joel Pryzbilla in return. Both of those guys are on the down side of their careers and can’t replace JSmoove production. Getting another big would allow AL to play 4 but I’m on the other side of this view point b/c I see AL being more effective as an undersize 5. More teams are playing with 1 big and a hybrid 4 (or another big) that can play on the perimeter as well: Lakers(Gasol,Odom), Boston(Perkins,KG), Spurs (Duncan,Horry), Hornets (Chandler,West) Washington (Haywood,Jamison), Orlando (Howard,Lewis/Turkoglu) Detroit(Mcdyes,Wallace/Maxiell), and Utah (Okur,Boozer/Millsap).

I think the one question that the BASG must answer is, could Horford be a better 4 than Smith or is he a better 5 with Smith at 4? I choose the latter…

By doc

June 15, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

any sign and trade of josh means the second leg of the five “legs” of the trip for the summer is just as flawed as the first; keeping the coach who masterminded a mediocre season under the best of circumstances. that type of maneuver will lead us further into the cauldron to become the clippers of the east. plain and simple.

you know i would still like to hear what the big picture is that they are trying to develop here. sooo many of us know that this team and franchise has no identity except that of baffoons that i would really like to hear what personality it is that is to come to bear here. are we going to become the spurs and look to use horford in such a way or become like the pistons building on the team concept around defense or maybe the celts and have our big three be smith, horford and jj. personally that one is doable but there will have to be the serviceable big to come in a play some big minutes. zaza used to be capable, just dont know where his head went. so tell me folks, where is this team to go? and please dont say let’s do the warriors thing or even the suns thing. this team has athletes but not the true downtown shooters en masse required to pull that one off.

By SalimFan

June 15, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Melvin I agree. As of right now, Al is not nearly the offensive juggarnaut you’d expect a premier PF to be Ex: Duncan, Gasol, Brand, Wallace, Garnett,Stoudemire, Nowitzki Etc.

Whatever our waknesses are, they can be covererd off the bench. Ex: Diop and a shooter.

As far as camby goes. Smoove’s All around game is much better than camby’s. Smith is a scoring threat that puts pressure on the opposing defense as well as Holding down the paint with his athleticisim.

If Camby had an offensive game he would be a forward because of his lack of mass. Then again that never stopped Deke, or Manute Bol.

By cp

June 15, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

I always liked Donta Smith. He is another guy that Mike Woodson just refused to let play. They guy would come off the bench and give you 12 one night and not see the court again for the next 6 games.

Im not a fan of Shannon Brown. I think Roger Mason would be a better fit. I just dont know if we have the money to sign anybody or if they would get any pt anyway with Mike Knapp at the helm.

For some reason I think we will end up using Chill in a sign and trade. I dont know why but I dont think we keep both Joshes. I could be wrong but man you just never know with this franchise.

By david

June 15, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

They will get Kwamie (spell check) and act like he’s Jabbar and pay Smith the max (mistake) and act like he’s Dr. J. I like Smith and want him but not the max. Somebody will offer the max, we will have to match because we were to stupid to make him a happy camper before now. Then let Chills go (tragedy) and keep Bibby and let Law and Salim ride the bench (another mistake) until they become even more uninterested. And then let the genius coach guide them to 30 wins.

By mykhalc

June 15, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

can’t wait to see the highly touted asst coaches!!!! the bench should/will look like the D-league!!!

the WOODSON thing has me soooooo not into the HAWKS as a franchise right now…more than any BK move or non-move. but that’s just me!!!

at least i still got GSW to pull for (tho i’ll ALWAYS pull for the HAWKS as a team). and at least that drama is ‘professional’ drama and not this ‘B’ league stuff the BASG is doin’!!!

maybe this says one thing tho…that the BASG has more money than we all thought. ‘cause SUND will HAVE TO fire WOODSON at some point thus the BASG’s ability to pay 2 head coaches at the same time. seems like deep pockets to me!!!

By mykhalc

June 15, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

OR maybe it says just how INCOMPOTENT this franchise will remain??!!! so instead of firin’ WOODSON like they SHOULD be forced to do ‘cause of ALL the things we ALREADY know, they will not do a PHO and make a move because the GM and HC don’t play from the same playbook!!! they will let WOODSON stay in place until his new extension runs out because they don’t WANT to pay 2 head coaches!!! RIDICULOUS AND CLUELESS is this entire franchise and i include SUND now!!! the sad thing is SUND REALLY did know better!!! he just did not have the gonads to do the deed…IMHO!!!! oh but wait…he was ‘comfortable’!!!! gimme a f’n break!!!

happy father’s day to all the pops out there!!! that includes me!!!

By mykhalc

June 15, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

s/b INCOMPETENT INCOMPETENT INCOMPETENT INCOMPETENT INCOMPETENT INCOMPETENT INCOMPETENT INCOMPETENT!!!

By SalimFan

June 15, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Maybe they’re just waiting until febuary to see what happens (like will Belkin be the sole Owner??)

I wouldn’t mind that. He was actually right. We gave up too much for Joe and pheonix didn’t have enough money to match anyway. The sighn and trade was not necessary. As a result, we’ve lost two or three picks since then.

Besides you can’t build a good team if someones sucking up all the funds(See: T-Mac).

By mykhalc

June 15, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

the APPEALS COURT ruled against BELKIN. what remains is his buyout cost/price tag??!! now i guess all the other owners COULD decide to LET him buy them out. kinda doubt it but this is an IMCOMPETENT bunch tho!!! anythin’ is probably possible!!! well except the RIGHT thing!!!

i’ll pass on the JJ theory!!

By david

June 15, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Every since I heard the news about keeping Woodson I’m like an old gun shy bird dog that won’t get out of his cage. I’m beat down. I love the Hawks, they finally had a chance to take a step in the right direction. But they blew it. All they had to do was have the courage and debth to say “We are very grateful for your effort but Mr. Woodson we are going to go in a new direction”. The draft comes around once in a blue moon where you can pick up some pieces. They graded out about a C in the last three years. Passing grade but could have done much better. And now we have nothing in the draft to look forward. Anybody that thinks Woodson had NOTHING to do with the picks is a fool. And now with free agency, God only knows what they will do. Why in the world should we expect intelligence to surface now after such a foolish move of keeping Woodson. Truly the most important yet ignorant, most careless desision I have ever seen. EVER.

By mykhalc

June 15, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

if the interview that JOE provided the link to doesn’t show one the brainlessness of this coach then one will NEVER get it!!! here is a cat that flat out says he’s not concerned about the 37 wins, to paraphrase!!! CLUELESS!!! so i guess if the HAWKS get in the playoffs with 35 wins next year, it’s still another good seaon!!!???!!! mission accomplished huh oh BRAINLESS ONE!!!??? he’ll say somethin’ like, ‘we could afford to go backwards. it didn’t hurt us’!!! oh yeah, he’d definitely be the cat i’d want to lead my franchise!!! WHAT A JOKE!!!!

By mykhalc

June 15, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

but i’m comfortable and positive!!!LOL

By Ken Strickland

June 15, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

When I threw out Pryzbilla’s name, I didn’t mean to emply a straight up trade. He’s just a BIG that will likely be available and would definitely fill our need for a DEF, shotblocking, rebounding big. Let’s face it, we aren’t going to get what we want or need without giving up something. We need a BIG and another shooter and JSmith can probably get us both.

Signing Jsmith to a max contract, which we might have to do to keep him, might destroy our salary structure. A DEF minded, shotblocking, rebounding 5, and a consistent shooter, will be more valuable and less costly in the long run than resigning Smoove.

Consider this.

(1)Horford would become our PF. He is a much better man to man defender than JSmith. He’s a much better outside shooter, which is something we need more of, and a better rebounder. He’s stronger inside, just as effective as Smoove, and commits far fewer turnovers.

(2)Pryzbilla is taller and bigger than Horford. He’s a better inside defender, shotblocker and a very good rebounder. His presence in the middle would mean far less double teaming the post. That alone would make us a better DEF team. We’d also be a better balanced team both OFF and DEF.

(3)This lineup would give us 4 good outside shooters and make it much harder for teams to double JJ.

As exciting as JSmith is, and as much as we love having him on the team, he just might be more valuable to us overall as trade bait.

By mykhalc

June 15, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

Ken, we’ve had this same discussion before and if i had the energy to find it, i would, but i don’t!!!LOL Pryzbilla was part of the BK purge and he has flat out said he WOULD NOT play for ATL again…PERIOD!!! he would do a GARY PAYTON!!! now that statement/interview is out there…somwhere!!! i’m just sayin’…!!!!

By terrell barron

June 15, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

Sund said he watched the Playoff games between Atlanta and Boston, so I take it that he only had the chance to see Woody coach 7 times. If only he had seen him during the regular season. I can understand giving a guy a chance to prove himself, but he’s already had 4. 13, 26, 30, 37. WOW! If I was the owner, he would have been out in his 1st year, when we only won 4 OUT OF THE LAST 45 GAMES. That’s un heard of. But he’s here for the time being, so we’ll just have to see how he does THIS YEAR. He did say that we needed some shooters, and that he’ll play his bench a little more this year, so I guess he does have a pulse. I was starting to think he was some kind of alien, sent down to destroy all Hawks fans. lol!!!

By ray

June 15, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc, calm down. Sund is probably only fulfilling Gearon Jr.’s wishes (who is his BOSS). You live in California and you weren’t born yesterday: you’ve heard political speak before. The right thing for Sund to say is that he’s positive and comfortable. What did you expect him to say: “Look, I know this dope couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag. But, ol’ Mike here wants to keep him on. I guess it’s for sentimental reasons. Whatever. He’s the boss and I just got here. But my job is a lot more secure than any head coach’s job. And what the boss wants, the boss gets. So for now, Woody gets to stay. But I’m gonna be watching him. Unless he really improves, and improves the team…I’m gonna build a no-contest case on his a$$, and I’ll do what Billy wasn’t able to do.”

No, you’re not going to hear that. And if you remember, all we heard from Gearon ,from the time we acquired Bibby until now, is how much he likes Woody. We can’t say we didn’t see it coming. We fooled ourselves into thinking a man older and wiser in the business would change all that. He couldn’t. Because he’s not THE boss. But he can build a better case then Billy.

Billy’s problem is that he continually did things in the draft that didn’t help (for the most part). He was constantly on the wrong foot and wrong page with Woodson. How else can it be explained? Remember something Ando said a while back about the ASG not letting Billy scapegoat Woodson? Look who outlasted who. Billy didn’t want any more of this. He left. Why shouldn’t he? I mean, a coach had an endorsement OVER him. Why stay if you can’t even fire the coach, whom you’ve grown worlds apart from?

CP, very good point. Roger Mason is a hard worker and more talented than Brown. In fact, you will never hear anyone say otherwise about Mason.

David,

I would like for you to elaborate on exactly what influence Woodson had on the past 4 drafts. Give specifics, because a lot of guys who got drafted never got good playing time from Woodson. And the ones that do….well, they do because Woody can’t afford to NOT play them. Trust me, you’d see Josh and Marvin on the bench (along with Horford) if Woody thought he had halfway serviceable veterans. And I mean halfway serviceable, too. Case in point? Acie Law. As long as AJ, Lue, or any other half-dead veteran was out there…Acie was guaranteed to be sitting the pine for the most part. As soon as they were gone and Bibby got here, what happened? Woodson rode Bibby like a pack mule and benched the crap out of Acie. Again, I’d be interested in what your exact thoughts are on Woody having influence in the drafts. Looks to me like a team has NEVER been more mismatched to a coach. But hey, what do I know.

By ray

June 15, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

terrell barron, one of the differences is that Woodson has not had a good veteran point guard. Before I go any further, don’t get me wrong. I think he’s…well, you know how I feel about him if you’ve ever read anything I’ve posted here. But understand that this is all in the mind of Michael Gearon Jr. He as much said so before we made the playoffs. Trust me dude, MICHAEL GEARON, JR. IS THE GUY PULLING THE STRINGS ON THIS RETARDED, 7-HEADED PINOCCHIO. What we are seeing is a guy trying to live his and his dad’s dream. The others are along for the ride.

Ken, I brought up a very similar argument a month or two ago, and at the beginning of this past season. I don’t want to see Josh Smith go. But as stated, he brings the most value. It may be what ends up happening if the ASG doesn’t pony up some real dough this season. .

I don’t see us keeping both Joshes and everybody else. If we do, we have the exact same team as last year, but on a much bigger pay scale. This still does not make sense, not with the ASG.

On how best to shape our team: I’m not 100% sure. One thing I am sure of: out of the three frontcourt spots, one needs to be a SHOOTER. If we keep Josh Smith, the shooter would have to be the center or other power forward. Utah uses such a lineup, rather effectively. Boozer’s the low post guy, Okur’s the shooter, AK47 is the high energy, high flier, shot blocker, sometime scoring guy.

If we don’t keep Smith, and go with a big goon in the middle, then the shooter will have to come from the small forward spot. It won’t be Horford. He’s a pf, and while he’s got a great foundation for a consistent 15-footer, he’s not a shooter. Here’s the problem: neither is Marvin. Sorry to all Marvin fans, but he’s just not, although his shot mechanics are GREAT. His shooting range is just outside of Horford’s and he has that stupid little leg kick…and almost always has to be open. He would also need to seriously hone his slash or basket-attacking moves. I don’t know about you, but I’m sick of waiting for him to “turn this corner” and become that player. If he was that kind of player, we wouldn’t be so worried about that position. So the question that has to be asked is this: are we willing to hitch our wagon to the gamble that Marvin will be the guy we need him to be (if he stays and Josh goes)? If not, then how do we get that guy?

By terrell barron

June 15, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

The pressure is getting to Westwood. This tournament is over. Right Sekou? Just messin with you. lol!!!

By doc

June 15, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

really dumb move by tiger there. this was down to match play and he might have let other folks back in. very surprised as all he had to do was make par in especially with the bad knee acting up periodically. let’s see if he can pull it off.

By glw

June 15, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

Havent been waiting to post to see what others thought about having Woodson back. I wish we had someone else, but since we are stuck with him, might as well make the best of it.

1. I am on board with adding a shooter and a big. I have always loved Jarvis Hayes game and think he would go well with Bibby and Johnson. And he is 6’6 so he can play small forward or big guard and gives you a replacement should you decide to let Childress go elsewhere.

2. As far as a big, lots of people throw Diop or Pryzbilla, those guys are going to command in the 5-6 million range. While we insist that we need a big, whoever we sign, most likely Horford will still play some minutes at the center. Also Pachulia will get some minutes, so most likely the guy that you bring in is probably going to play maybe 15 minutes a game. You simply need a big that come in for a few minutes at a time grab some rebounds and show some interior toughness. The best scenario is acquiring a veteran big like Ratliff or Magloire who probably could be had for the veteran’s minumum or slightly more.

By mykhalc

June 15, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, simply put…i will not calm down!!!LOL

By doc

June 15, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

that wasso un-f0cking believable. no other way of putting it.

really enjoyed watch rocco keep it together but TIGER is the man.

By terrell barron

June 15, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Hey Doc, Tiger needs to leave that driver in the bag tomorrow.

By SalimFan

June 15, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Ray, Funny stuff If Sund were to actually speak his mind.

On another not I LOVE Roger Mason. That being said, He’s not on the open market for us to get(What I mean is, there is no way in HELL Washington lits him walk….especially with GILBO and his GIMPY Knee). Shannon on the Other hand IS. Also he’s an exellent finisher at the basket, he’s has an extremely fast first step, and he hustles. He defenetly has untapped potential.

His shot Doesn’t hit as consistantly as it did when he was a Michigan State but i’m sure he’ll get it together.

So Now I’m Gonna list all the FA’s and Restricted FA SHOOTERS and BIGS that can help us.

Shannon Brown

Luol Deng

Ben Gordon

Chris Duhon

J.R Smith

Eduardo Najera (PF) But a three point marksman

Jarvis Hayes

Matt Barnes

Andris Biedrins

Steve Novak (Team Option)

Kareem “Why Does my Brother get all the attention?” Rush

Paul Davis (Also From Michigan State….Big Time scorer in college 19ppg 7”0…..get’s no run for the clippers with Kaman nad Brand in front of him (Spot Minutes per game)

Ronny “Adrenaline Rush” Turiaf (Big)

Sahsa “The Machine” Vujacic

Kwame “Butter Fingers” Brown

Alanzo “Why is Vince Carter Picking on me” Mouning

Ricky “Get Buckets” Davis (His AND1 name is the Hypnatist)

DeSagana “Tha Hustla” Diop

Nenad Krstic

Fred “Slam Dunk Champion in a slow year” Jones

Louis “Sweet Lou” Williams

Von “Shoulda Stayed at FSU a little longer” Wafer

Bonzi Wells (Former Jail Blazer….I Loved that team)

Jannero “Get out my way and let me shoot” Pargo (Former Arkansas Temamate of Joe Johnson)

Brent “Just Jump Into the damn Defender (I CHOKED) Barry

Michael Finley

Kurt Thomas

Robert “Fomerly known as Big Shot Rob” Horry

Francisco Elson

Jose Calderon (Whatever…crybabies (just for you lol)

Carlos “Rock Star” Delfino,

Antawn “Tweener” Jamison

Roger “Automatic” Mason

Eddie “Pine-Time” House……yup, him, Salim, J.J Redick, and Steve Novak lol.

BTW what ever Happend to Daniel Ewing (DUKE) and Danny “I can’t keep my mouth shut” Fortson

By terrell barron

June 15, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

What’s up with the Lakers and all of these blown leads? Sort of remins me of the Hawks.

By david

June 15, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Ray I just know that Woodson had influence on the picks. Obviously I wasn’t there. He would be a mismatch coach with anybody. That has been proven over and over. How about the picture of Gearon as a child sitting with his hero Maravich in today’s paper? Maravich was/is my hero also. He would have slapped that boy and stayed drunk a month if he had known that someday he would retain Mike Woodson as a coach. The most losing coach in Hawks history and resigning him after his current contract ran out. A coach with zero interest in developing young players, only trying to save his job. What misery.