Hawks

By terrell barron

June 10, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

I think if he wanted Woody to stay, he would have already re-signed him. At least I hope that’s the case.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 10, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Makes sense t. barron.

By the way, is it me or do the Celtics just seem to be a better TEAM than the Lakers?

20-20 after one with Pierce and KG playing like trash … the Lakers are in trouble if they can’t pull away tonight.

By Samuel

June 10, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

I already spotted it. Kobe shot 8 free throws in the first quarter. That projects to 32 over 4 quarters. Looks like Stern and Co aim to make sure this thing goes seven.

Hey, maybe we can hire Steven A Smith or Mike Wilbon. They seem to really know the game or maybe some equipment manager like Opy(Lawrence Frank) in New Jersey.

Kobe free throw clicker= 10.

By Timothy

June 10, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

The Atlanta Spirit Group is a complete joke. Make a decision, you goofballs!

By Sekou K. Smith

June 10, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

PJ Brown is old enough to be Jordan Farmar’s daddy! But I’d have paid cash to see those two scrap a little bit. The Finals is always better when there is some legitimate bad blood between the teams.

By Sautee

June 10, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Sekou

As richbrave and doc know, I’m usually the pollyanna of the blog as pertains to “the fix” being in to extend playoffs, increase ratings, etc.

I really don’t want it to be WWE basketball.

I’d love to think that both of these teams are very good at home and that it’s totally normal for things to follow form (that is, the home team wins).

My fear arises when I see unnecessary calls that are out of the flow of the game.

Let me be clear - I’m somewhat pulling for the Celtics. But there were calls (and even more frightening, non-calls in Sunday night’s game, even in the first quarter, against the Lakers (before I gave it up), that were truly scary for the integrity of the league.

And you’ll notice, that the league’s “response” to Donaghy’s claims only denied criminal wrongdoing, not favoritism.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

This could blow up BIG.

It was pretty telling when Van Gundy’s fine was so high.

I’d LOVE to be totally wrong on this. Or for drmaryb - “wronge”.

By MannyT

June 10, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Guess who is back for a night or two.

ASP time is another acronym that highlights the Professional Athletics Ineffectiveness Normalization (PAIN) we see in the Hawks and Thrashers.

The only thing that doesn’t make drawing out Woody’s situation look like the most ridiculous coaching thing around is the fact that Waddell must be the slowest reader of How to Hire a Coach. Maybe he needs a picture book, but someone needs to get him to the last chapter so he can get it done.

Maybe the ASG has plans to replace Harry the Hawk and Thrash with the Slowskys.

As I rarely would say, Woody has the right to be upset with this slow mess.

WAFFI

By Sautee

June 10, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Samuel

You say that you’re a big Phil fan. And that you just want to give Woody his due.

Have you noticed that Phil, even in the freakin’ finals, goes TEN deep on his bench?

Can you EVER imagine Woody doing that? Seriously, can you?

For me, that is reason enough to not have him back. You will NOT win in the playoffs with a 6.5 man rotation, even with young legs.

By doc

June 10, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

samuel, i just read the line from the previous blog about how the hawks had done so well during the playoffs. funny stuff bro when they werent competitive in four of the seven games losing by an avg of greater than 20 per game. wow i wonder how you would respond to your own teams if they laid such eggs repeatedly, would you say nice try?

now samuel, i see it clearly, kobe is just being the aggressor this game and the C’s are backing down. that is the only reason for the disparity so early in the game. that is my line and i am sticking to it. advertisers and tv execs are in control, just like reality tv or maybe sports were the first example of it.

By Harry Hawk

June 10, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

All the Lake Show has to do is win tonight. It doesn’t matter how good they look doing it. I don’t like either of these teams, but I’d like to see a long series filled with officiating conspiracies. The stink is what makes the NBA so intriguing.

By Harry Hawk

June 10, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Ain’t nobody replacing me, MannyT!

I’ll take their asses to court and Belkin-ize the bastids!

By terrell barron

June 10, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Is it just me, or is Gasol a softy? That finesse s** is not working against Boston.

By Ben

June 10, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

I predict Dwane Casey will be named coach on Wednesday or Thursday.

Anyone else amazed at how soft Gasol is? The dude cannot play a lick of defense, and when he posts up, he dribbles AWAY from the basket.

Odom and Radmanovic are trash too.

If the Lakers can package Odom + Radman for a good SF, and Bynum gets healthy, this team will be sick for 4 more years

By MannyT

June 10, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

Sautee I am back. Just had to focus on some work stuff that is going much slower than it should.

As for a few blogs back and that CIA comment, I’ll never post bad words about anyone at the top levels of the CIA, NSA etc. One of my favorite conspiracy movies is Enemy of the State! I’ll let them electronically ruin your life…not mine ;-)

If Gen. Hayden was a Hawks fan, he’d define sports torture as the way the ASG runs teams in the 21st century.

In this comatose school of sports management, I guess Woody will get a goodbye party on June 30th. They’ll have to run out and get the cake, because no one will realize it is his last day until lunch time.

The worse part will be the hiring of the next coach. Sund may have his eye on Casey, but after visiting, he’ll figure out life is better as an assistant to Carlisle, working for the Cubillionaire!

Then he’ll quickly hire someone questionable in September for more money than he’s worth. If he really screws it up, we will wish for Woody. He may go for an old trick that worked in the past. richbrave are you ready for our next coach!

ROTLFMAO

Back to tonight’s game…why is it that we know all those missed free throws will come back to haunt the Lakers.

ASG = S L O W PAIN

By Sautee

June 10, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

terrell barron

yeah, I’m with you on that.

He did have one good finish against KG in one of the other games, but it’s been mostly pretty weak.

By Samuel

June 10, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Doc,

They lost 4 games to 3. It doesn’t matter by how much. And yes I would use that success to build on for my program. We’re a lowly 2A team who took mighty Norcross ,with the best players money can by, 7 games. You becha!

By MannyT

June 10, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

No team seems to have a strong inside game going tonight.

I think there is a difference between being a true “softy” and being a Euro big man. If you compared Kareem and Wilt, their styles were different. Wilt was far more physical, but that didn’t make KAJ a softy. His effective strength was a finesse game that took advantage of size (unstoppable sky hook).

The closest Laker to a physical inside presence is Turiaf. They would be better with a tough inside player, but what team wouldn’t. Gasol isn’t soft, but he doesn’t play that physical game you might expect from a 7ft player that developed his game here.

…and the only way Woody plays 10 deep is if one of his starters wears the clothes.

WAF

By doc

June 10, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

sam, the hawks are not the equivalent to a lowly 2-a team playing a “professional” 5-a team. griz maybe are not the hawks.

now, are you saying somehow the rules are being broken in the ga state high school association or is that sour grapes? certainly something like that couldnt happen in front of everyone?

By mykhalc

June 10, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

it matters HOW they played and were COACHED in those 4 games tho!!! score might not be the bottom line but in this case it was a CLEAR reflection of how those games were played and coached…NOT STRONGLY!!!

and the only thing i’d use from those 4 games to build on would be the fact that they participated…PERIOD!!!

By Sautee

June 10, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

Samuel

Imagine for just a moment that your own teams had to play 48 minute games instead of 32.

How successful would you be with a bench of 1.5 players?

Just out of curiousity (and I’m not trying to make a point here) how important at your level is developing a reliable bench?

That to me has been Woody’s greatest sin. And whether or not they overachieved in the playoffs, for me it doesn’t offset that lacking.

Also, there’s a direct corrolation between:

a: they only won 37 games and limped to the finish.

and

b: they challenged the best team in the league at least at home in the playoffs.

If they could do (b), then why could they only do (a)?

COACHING! Or lack of it.

And another question regarding your teams - in the playoffs, are they already fired up, or is it your coaching that does it?

Please don’t think that I’m disparaging your abilities. These are questions that your earlier posts raised for me.

peace

By terrell barron

June 10, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Kobe vs the Celtics! Where the hell is Gasol and Odom? If Kobe stops trusting his teammates, this series will be over in 4. And oh yeah, fire Woody and hire ANYBODY. lol!!!

By Samuel

June 10, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Compared to the Celtics’ money, we’re lower than 2A.

Just kidding Doc, just an analogy. They’re (Norcross) just good and play with whoever shows up.

You guys satisfied with the officiating tonight?

By terrell barron

June 10, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

Maybe the Celtics are just better than we thought. Or could it be that the Lakers are’nt as good as we thought? The Hawks and Cavs took Boston to seven games, so if they beat LA in 4 or 5, does this mean that the East is better than we thought, or could it mean that the West is’nt as good as we thought. O.K. I just confused myself, but yall get what I’m trying to say. I hope! lol!!!

By MannyT

June 10, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

So if the Celts win this game tonight with minimal help from Garnett and Pierce, how much do you want to bet there will be a headline somewhere

Jesus Saves Celtics

By doc

June 10, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

kinda what i thought samuel :-)) just didnt want to assume it as such.

it seems to be a pretty competitive game and it is fun to see ray ray begin to show his stuff as he has looked lost at times in the playoffs in a prolonged slump. he is too good to have that to deal with in his legacy. celts have gotten better and better during the playoffs, slowly gaining more confidence.

By terrell barron

June 10, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

Did Phil smoke a blunt with the guys before the game? Phil has’nt said a word, Odom looks lost, Gasol is timid, Fisher is invisible, and Kobe cant hit a freakin free-throw. What in the hell is going on? Is Snoop at the game? lol!!

By Sekou K. Smith

June 10, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

The Celtics are locked in right now. Even if they don’t win they’ve got the Lakers in frantic mode. It’s crazy to see the Lakers out of whack like this.

After watching the Western Conference finals I was sure the Lakers were going to do damage in these Finals. But they’ve been on their heels for basically the entire series so far.

The Celtics aren’t in a must-win situation tonight. The Lakers are, and they look rattled.

By Singindablues

June 10, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

So finally there’s some confirmation that the NBA is not too far removed from pro wrestling as a fixed entertainment sport. Basketball is by far the easiest of the pro sports to manipulate regarding influence by the refs. The NBA has got to be sweating bullets that they can mussle this guy or the NBA will take a huge hit in being considered a legitimate, honestly competitive sport. We’ve all seen games in the playoffs that have seemed incredibly awkward regarding the calls by the refs.

By Casey

June 10, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

Listen up petey! it doesn’t take a genius, such as myself, to figure out that you are the same “guy” that posts as “Matt.”

Nobody else would waste that much time back tracking to see if I have said what I claim to have stated….Other than “Matt” or sautee. No props intended towards him, but you lack enough intellect to be Sautee. Therefore, I know that you are Matt, the exiled idiot.

Bacon Man/Mr. Bacon knows his identity. If you lack enough brain cells to figure it out, then quit trying. Maybe the game ain’t for you for you to play.

You asked who would be a good choice for next Hawks HC. duane CASEY, fool! Great name. Must be a great person!

BTW, Jeff Foxworthy wants to know if you’ve ever turned the sprinklers on and told your kids, “It’s a water park!”

petey matt This game ain’t for you, but… “Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can.” John Wooden.

The Great Rev. Casey verses 11:25-11:37.

By terrell barron

June 10, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Does Pierce have a personal barber? What’s up with that? He looks like he cant decide if he wants a beard or not. lol!!! I had to say that.

By Cherie

June 10, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

As much as Donaghy deserves whatever punishment he gets, right now he’s adding fire to the cospiracists favorite theory in the NBA: Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals(the only series in 2002 that even went to 7 games) was in fact a FIXED GAME. A game that was pretty physical to begin with and tied at 75 at the end of 3 quarters now all of a sudden sees the Lakers get 27 FT attempts in one quarter. Two Kings players mysteriously foul out.(“called made-up fouls to give additional foul shots to one team) And the mother of all insults to injuries: Kobe’s elbow meets Mike Bibby’s chin and Mike gets called for the foul(In Donaghy’s letter it’s known as “deliberately ignored fouls that resulted in injuries)

I would to know Mike’s opinion of this if that’s too much trouble to ask.

About ASG…that is an awfully long time about Woodson, something tells me that they’re gonna play that one out right until July 1st and let him go.

By RealSquawk

June 10, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

I really do not like Jeff Van Gundy as an announcer

I just need to see if anyone feels the same or if I am alone on this

By Sekou K. Smith

June 10, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

For all the yapping about free throws leading up to this game, the foul shooting tonight for both teams has been dreadful.

The Lakers are the new poster children for crying for calls. They’ve been at it all night.

But they are playing with the necessary desperation needed for a team in danger going down 0-3.

Kobe better save these cats or it’s going to be curtains.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 10, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

Vujacic is doing his best Leon Pow … er, I mean Powe impersonation tonight. Bench play, bench play, bench play. Haven’t we had that conversation around here before?

By Sekou K. Smith

June 10, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

I’d have taken my chances trapping Kobe and making Vujacic and those other cats beat me. You know Kobe’s going to do his thing with man coverage (little football talk there) late in the game.

By terrell barron

June 10, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

Was that Doc Rivers or Mike Woodson coaching the Celtics at the end of the game? Why in the hell did’nt they foul? wtf! They were only down 6 with 17 or so seconds left. And with the way LA was shooting free-throws, anything could have happened. But we’ll never know now, will we?

By Sekou K. Smith

June 10, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

Garnett and Pierce were brutal shooting tonight. Just brutal. And the Lakers still had to survive ‘em.

Kobe was, well … Kobe. Tyronn Lue reminded me of as much in a phone conversation Monday afternoon. Having played with Kobe, he told me to be careful in assuming that the Celtics have this series locked up because they won Games 1 and 2.

He was right tonight. But I still have to see more from the rest of the Lakers before I believe they can win three more of these things.

By terrell barron

June 11, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, Odom and Gasol were just as bad as KG and Pierce, and they still won. So it goes both ways.

By Casey

June 11, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Sekou, any chance T Lue will return to the Hawks and back up Bibby and Law?

The Great Rev. Casey no verse.

By doc

June 11, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

hmmm, did DOC pull the same coaching gaffe he did with JJ only this time it was kobe the one wanting to do it all without being doubled. thought the C’s were going to do it with about 9 minutes to go. guess the C’s still dont want to win on the road.

now what has happened to the new and improved odem?

By WONK WONK

June 11, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

nobody wants Lue back,he’s horrible.Tell him to stay away!

By El Grande

June 11, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

NBA=WWF

By Casey

June 11, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this

Listen up WONK WONK!, Lue is a solid role player with 3 pt range. What’s your goal, to become the next troll? You should stay away, you idiot!

The Great Rev. Casey verses 11:41-11:52.

By cp

June 11, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

The B.A.S.G. are clowns. It’s going to be one long sommmer.

By Joe

June 11, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

I like what the GM is doing. Lets wait until the Lakers and Celtics is done and then lure one of their assistant coaches. If they dont bite then give Woody a 1 yr deal and if he dont come through and look as confused on the sidelines as last year then send him packing. U cant be proud of entering the playoffs with a record less than .500 with that talent but he feels as if he accomplished something.

By R. Stroz

June 11, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this

The correct name for the Atlanta Spirit is FUBAS(Fouled Up By Atlanta Spirit).

On another note, anyone who watched the Hawks v. Celtics series knows the Celtics were the predetermined winner. It wasn’t until the BS chant started that the refs stopped giving game 6 to the Celtics. The series went seven games and FUBAS received the extra revenue. The NBA has created a new means of profit sharing, extending playoff series.

By cp

June 11, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this

I tried to stop my post when I realized how bad I butchered the word summer lmao. Yea its going to be one long summer.

By Casey

June 11, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

This is for Manny T, “Do something every day that you don’t want to do; this is the golden rule for acquiring the habit of doing your duty (not doody, najeh) without pain,” author Mark Twain.

Hire CASEY, at least his name is great!

The Great Rev. Casey verses 1:17-1:27.

Holla!

By JFoxworthy

June 11, 2008 1:35 AM | Link to this

Casey’s grandma can properly execute the sleeper hold.

JFoxworthy verses : old as heck.

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 11, 2008 1:57 AM | Link to this

When the Donaghy mess first came out I was willing to give the NBA the benefit of the doubt. I still don’t buy into the conspiracy theory that mad games are being fixed — the four rings on Tim Duncan’s finger are the primary evidence that the fix is not in.

But from the AP article about Donaghy’s latest dime-dropping: “NBA referees, influenced by cozy relationships with league officials, rigged a 2002 playoff series”. This is way too true and is something David Stern and his elephant-sized ego needs to fix. A player can’t so much as mention one bad call in a game without getting hit in the wallet, but even the supposedly highly-rated refs blow call after call and are not held accountable. As long as that continues to happen people will be talking about conspiracy theories.

By peter

June 11, 2008 3:34 AM | Link to this

CASEY, now I know why people have advised me to ignore you. I openly asked to discuss basketball matters with you seeing as how you complained of people not doing this but picking on you instead. I have no idea who this Matt is that you speak of and if it makes you feel better to think that you know I am whoever it is then whatever. Nor the Mr. Bacon Man. Perhaps he is an imaginary friend. It is sad to see people like you. You are like an internet Quasimodo or that deformed individual on the movie “300” who wished to be a part of the spartan force. Deformed although in the mental sense, ignored and useless. You must feel like an outcast here as few will interact with your sensless chatter. I will not speak to you again. I see that most of the others on this board do the same. Now I know why. How sad. No doubt you will be replying in some insane fashion, attempting to lash back at me but I will not be reading it so it will be a complete waste of your time. Then again people who come here saying the dumb things you say have nothing but time to waste and therefore are nothing but a collosal waste of time themselves. How burdened the relatives must feel. Hope you do not live with any. Might make them look bad.

By Phil

June 11, 2008 7:55 AM | Link to this

“If you compared Kareem and Wilt, their styles were different. Wilt was far more physical, but that didn’t make KAJ a softy.”

Wilt was one of the strongest men who ever played in the NBA, but he developed more of a finesse game in an effort to prove that he was an athlete, not just a big, strong giant. His finger roll was a perfect example. Wilt expressed regret after he retired that he had not used his immense power more. He weighed 275 or better for most of his career. Kareem was more like 225.

By Darrin "The Vent King"

June 11, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

David Stern can play spin control all he wants, but what that ref said isn’t too far fetched. When Kobe ALONE has just as many free throw attempts in 1st qtr at HOME than his entire team had two days ago in Boston, what else are we to think? You telling me those same Celtics were not fouling him in Boston? I remember that ‘02 Lakers/Kings series and thought how ridiculous then that Kobe went to the line TWENTY plus times in the 4th qtr of that game 6 or 7. NO ONE player should ever get to the line that many times in one qtr not even Jordan. The foul disparity in this series, hell this whole playoffs is reason for me to slighty believe some of what that ref is saying- even if he is trying to save his own skin. I mean, really do you actually believe EVERYTHING he said was made up? If even ONE thing was true, the NBA intergrity is in serious jeopardy and they are heading towards being looked at like the WCW.

By Najeh Davendump

June 11, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

I don’t think we need to rush Sund at all. This is too important a decision and he needs to weigh all factors before deciding what he wants to do. Take as long as you need to

By R. Stroz

June 11, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

If the fix wasn’t in on the Hawks v. Celtics series, explain how KG is only player to EVER assault a ref and not be suspended.

If you don’t believe KG knew he was shoving a ref, look at the videos on youtube.

The NBA is sadly turning into the WWE.

By Astro Joe

June 11, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

I kind of think that the lack of an announcement on Woody probably means that they are trying to negotiate a contract. Surely, a decision has been made, for at least next season.

By Ken Strickland

June 11, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

This HC thing is driving me crazy. I can see several reasons for Sund delaying his decision.

(1)Sund wants to be certain he has a verbal committment from the candidate he wants before allowing Woodson’s contract to expire. Waiting for Woodson’s contract to expire gives him time to explore and negotiate.

(2)Woodson is the one using the time remaining on his contract to explore his options and gauge the degree of interest other teams have in him.

(3)Sund is negotiating terms and conditions with Woodson as I’m writing this. In other words, he’s trying to decide whether he should commit to Woodson short term or long term. This option makes me constipated.

(4)Sund has already made his decision not to retain Woodson but has agreed to let his contract run out so he can find another coaching position without the stigma of being fired. This option excites me more than a romantic weekend with Beyonce, Hallie, Jessica and a truck load of viagra.

TERRELL BARRON-on the previous post you mentioned the possibllity of trading Bibby and either Marvin and/or Zaza for TJ Ford. First, there would be no need for us to include any other players in the deal. Bibby’s salary of over $15M is almost double Ford’s 8M salary. That means Toronto would be the team having to include extra players/contracts to balance Bibby’s contract. As far as Ford being fragile or injury prone, how is Bibby’s history any better? At least Ford hasn’t lost any of his speed and quickness, or been slowed in anyway by age or injury, like Bibby has.

By Astro Joe

June 11, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Ken, there are no other teams hiring a Head Coach. And Larry Brown has already said that he is keeping an opening on his staff until the Atlanta coaching issue is settled. To me, that means he’s keeping a seat available for either his brother or Woody. But there isn’t a lot to choose from at this 11th hour. If Sund was going to cut Woody loose, he should have done it late last week when he could have at least interviewed for head coaching jobs with Bulls, Suns and Pistons. The best Woody can do at this point is an assistant position. He could land in Boston, if we hire Thibadeau.

By I.MUS WRITE

June 11, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Realsqwak-I have to disagree with you on Vangundy…. He’s a good announcer -funny dude and he really knows the game.

This series is over- Kobe is a one man wrecking crew- and the rest of the team is already on vacation. Gasol is a candy azz and Odom????? How the hell do your 2nd and 3rd scoring options not make a basket til the end of the third quarter…dam shame

How about that guy in the GMC Yukon Denali commercial…… Now thats funny

By KevinM

June 11, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

I can’t see a way that the Hawks can get a PG and move Bibby at the same time. I think we go with Bibby/Law in ‘08. We were a .500 team with them in that slot, which was better than Lue/AJ/Law. I see us playing this Woody thing out until the Finals are over; then let’s discuss with TomThibideau? to see if he has interest. He already has Kobe’s approval as a quality coach and perhaps he gets his chance. Why didn’t Chicago just wait as well? Sekou, I agree 1000 percent on that hire of Del Negro…..Chicago is actually better now without Skiles? That is a buddy-buddy agreement with Kerr getting a hire done from his organization. Whatever! Anyway, wait it our Sund and see if Tom is available and get his salary requirements to see if there is a fit and let Woody torment us from Charlotte. He after all, knows these players better than anyone else…haha.

By tyger

June 11, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Hawks Not Getting Better!!

Increasingly, Sund is looking more like the good ole’ ball-licker that we worried about, than the next step GM we were sold on.

Cant forget, Evil Belkin lurking in the shadows, ready to pounce on the slightest typographical error.

Now, w/o BK, a dumbed down ASG, still cant make a move w/o second guessing itself 9x.

In lock-step with a desperate Arthur Blank, the Hawks reached to appease the lunatics.

Too busy an off-season to let BK walk. Major FA re-signings, coaching decisions, a bloated salary cap, a dysfunctional ownership group, a lingering court case, and a draft full of bigs, all on the table in 30 days or less.

We didnt need a old “unaccomplished” guy, we needed the “second best talent man” in the business to finish the job.

We wouldve been better off extending both BK and Woody and sent them on 2 wk fishing trip until they were buds again. We need the GM/Coach on the same page and it wouldve been easier for them to repair their 20 yr relationship than begining anew.

Now, we have to alot for Sund’s learning curve - which is only fair -but this aint yo’ momma’s NBA team. You really had to be here to fully understand the soap opera called “As the Hawks Turn”.

Sure, everything will be fine, they always say… but we couldve made our move up the NBA food chain.

Instead, now it looks more like another dissapointing Speedy Claxton-Lorenzen Wright summer.

And this city deserved so much more…

By david

June 11, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

The Hawks are the only team in the history of professional sports that can lose in the first round and look at it as a positive. And I wonder and wonder why we can’t get better. Sund and Woodson are interviewing… I think the performance is on the table in the name of 106 and 222. Interviewing, Woodson’s probably a great guy but at some point I hope his ability to coach comes up. Van Gundy, Collins, Jackson, etc.. Next time you see Phil Jackson and Doc talking to their teams think about “Woody”. Oh yeah we could have had Doc OR New Orleans coach. One is coach of the year the other is up 2 to 1 in the finals. Sign ole Woody back up and let’s go kick some arse. When he is 150 or 200 losses over his wins then let’s reconsider before we sign him up again.

By jhan

June 11, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

tyger, what makes you think BK would have done anything good this offseason?

You mention the Speedy/Lorenzen summer - who do you think signed those guys? The same guy you wanted to extend. You aren’t making any sense.

I still think Sund will hire Thibodeau as the coach. As a defensive specialist he has to be licking his chops with this roster. Everyone is young, long & athletic. Imagine what a real coach will accomplish with this roster.

Anybody notice how the Lakers & Celtics have been changing their offensive/defensive game plans during each game? They run different plays & defensive schemes depending on who is in the game. Anybody ever get p** at Woody for making too many changes during a game? Didn’t think so.

By KevinM

June 11, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Thibodeau would be a good fit for a team who needs a long-term identity. All you are hearing in this series is how the Celtics defense is rising to the occasion and they are dictating the style of play. I have seen Ben’s prediction of Dwayne Casey to replace Woody because of his previous ties to RS, but you gotta think that since we are currently the only team who has not solidified their HC position for next season, we could get Thibodeau in for a legitimate look. I will still mention Kareem as a long shot, but the ASG probably doesn’t read the views of the Sekou faithful?

By I.MUS WRITE

June 11, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Rev. JHAN- Let the church say amen,im in total agreement. Woodcock is a loser and doesnt deserve another chance,cant wait til July1…….kick rocks parrot face

By david

June 11, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

If the Hawks fire Woodson how bad would the upcoming season have to go before ANYBODY missed or regretted firing him or think it was a mistake? Point is, not gonna happen. The Hawks will only get better with some new blood, new energy. A new teacher, motivator, mentor and attitude. OHMYGOD Sund pull the plug give these guys a chance.

By ray

June 11, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Ken, it’s driving a lot of us crazy. But you know what? This reeks of the ASG. I’m having a hard time believing that two GMs in a row just love to drag their feet. I’m thinking ownership wants to keep Woody (as Gearon would certainly have us believe) and is probably providing nothing but obstacles in Sund’s path. They may be telling him “Prove to us that Woody is not worth keeping, and then convince us that not only do you have a worthy candidate to replace him…but that we’ll feel good about it when it’s done.”

And that’s just it. A pile of idiots who just can’t get out of the damn broth and let the Iron Chef do his thing (you hired him to do it, did you not?). Micromanagement….doesn’t work in the NBA. Will we never be rid of these guys?

By ray

June 11, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Remember, Sund can only do what the owners let him do. I think we will see rather quickly here if there is a “total autonomy” or not. Many of us doubted there would be and our doubts are likley to be proven as well-founded….unfortunately.

By ILL-Logical

June 11, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Latest rumor: Woody gets a 2 year deal and the assistants all get 1.

Translation: Woody wins and the BK mandated folks go home/ the h* away from here.(read Larry Drew and Herb Brown)And goodby Josh Smith-the Andruw Jones treatment.

By tyger

June 11, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

jhan,

Re-read Sekous blog and take into account, the handcuffs he operated under during the previous summers.

He couldnt make a deal w/o a court order, yet still managed to corrall enough talent to get us to the playoffs.

No other GM in the history of the NBA has had to endure that kind of drama.

At least he was well versed in ASG-mania, it’s going to be interesting to see how a “newbie” is going to deal with this mess.

It was noted that Sund was a media-friendly type, but we havent heard a peep outta the guy.

BK is looking better everyday - when you dont have anything good to say, just shut up.

Appears Sund is following the same mantra.

By jhan

June 11, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

ray, I agree 100% about the owners. I think Sund knew what he wanted to do before he ever got to Atlanta. Either the owners aren’t letting him do what he wants or are making him wait for some odd reason.

Just get out of the man’s way & let him work.

By tyger

June 11, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Everybody’s jumping on the Doc Rivers/Thibodeaux bandwagon now, where were the last year and the year before, when they were the worst team in the league?

KG, PP, and Ray Allen would make alot of coaches look like geniuses.

By T.C

June 11, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

I think donaghy is telling the truth about the nba fixing games.he already know he’s going to jail so what do he have to loose.the nba didnt support him but slammed him so i think he will tell it all.i think more info will come out like baseball.look at the series when the miami heat won the championship,there were calls that made me wonder and now it all make sense.i hate it when officials dictate games.

By Sautee

June 11, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Ray

If you’re out there email me at: estarleft@yahoo.com

By kirknga

June 11, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

I believe what *Donaghy * says is true.

People are forgetting that during a playoff series in 07, Van Gundy was fined for saying that he was told by the officials that they were going to be targeting Yao Ming. They would be calling more moving screens per order of their supervisor.

People thought Van Gundy was making it up, but now we have someone who backed up what he said.

You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist, you just have to use your eyes to see that in any game the officials have more than a little theater in the way the officiate.

There has always been superstar protection even to the detriment of the spirit of competition. But hey, it’s great for ratings and merchandise sales so how cares?

By Ryder

June 11, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

I do believe they’re waiting until after the finals as well to bring in Thibodeau. Ownership has to eventually realize that with a new GM these things have to happen.

I think the inactivity is the same reason that most men don’t get married anymore: they’re afraid of making the wrong decision and having to be stuck with it. Sund doesn’t want to commit long term to a coach if the players don’t believe in his system. Also as far as the Joshes are concerned, the sad truth is that one of them will go, and I believe it will be Childress in a sign-and-trade. Perhaps Atlanta will send him to San Antonio in order to get Kurt Thomas or to another team in hopes of getting that inside presence to help Horford.

Either way I’m going to give Sund the benefit of the doubt.

By femhawkfan

June 11, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

Thibodeau, Thibodeau, Thibodeau. That is all I am seeing. I am not sure if he is the man for the job. Did we forget that Woodson came from the 2004 NBA Champion Detroit Pistons? And we all have seen the job he has done. If the Hawks do decide to hire a new coach, I am hoping that they select someone that has actual head coaching experience.

By travis

June 11, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

in light of the donaghey allegations, i believe him. i swear that stern did not want the hawks to beat the celts. garnett should have been suspended for his altercation with zaza and he pushed a ref, too. the hawks would have won that series had garnett been suspended!! hell, amare, did nothin’ and he was suspended…

By travis

June 11, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

in light of the donaghey allegations, i believe him. i swear that stern did not want the hawks to beat the celts. garnett should have been suspended for his altercation with zaza and he pushed a ref, too. the hawks would have won that series had garnett been suspended!! hell, amare, did nothin’ and he was suspended…

By Harpie

June 11, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Woodson must go!!!!!!

By travis

June 11, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

as far as woody and the hawks…he may be a good coach, but he doesn’t have the patient with rookies and young players, which the hawks were one of the youngest teams in the league. you have to get a coach that can match the make up of your team or make the team to fit the coach.

woody doesn’t develop young talent, so to bring him back as a coach would be ludacrous, considering how young this team is

By doc

June 11, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

as far as the coaching situation the safest thing to do is to continue woody’s regime unless he gets to asking for too much time or money then they can part ways amicably. this is where they are at now, in my estimation.

wouldnt sund be a fool to come in and make demands simce ownership has pematurely and loudly declared woody needs the oportunty to stay because of what was accomplished this past year? ….. unless RED was ready to come out of serious retirement.

be practical guys if it were any one of us we would let woody have enough rope to hang himself so as not to try and make enemies and show up your new boss . yes taht is even if it is the wrong decision. yeah, i can hear him say “i have my reservations and this is what they are”, showing due diligence ” and will continue to go forward at this price for a one year extension monitoring the situation closely”. if woody balks then you have got what you want. otherwise he either puts up or shuts up and then you get down to a serious negotiation mid season to extend and increase salary if all is going well to show all what you think of the guy. if he falls flat then he goes on his way early and you have your list of potential candidates to fill in our have him on your bench ready to go. whatever dont do what chicago did last year or what the thrashers did last year for that matter either.

By nique

June 11, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

woody is a horrible coach and should not be resigned. he coached one decent playoff series…..and LOST!!!!!!! the only thing making it remotely debatable whether to sign the guy is a playoff LOSS!!!!! there is no way i would resign this guy.

By gaboystock

June 11, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

)Sund has already made his decision not to retain Woodson but has agreed to let his contract run out so he can find another coaching position without the stigma of being fired. This option excites me more than a romantic weekend with Beyonce, Hallie, Jessica and a truck load of viagra.

Who needs game 7; if you do this before the finals, you won’t live to see same.

What a way to go!

By david

June 11, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

We all hate this guy as a coach not as a dude, friend, father, husband, brother, uncle, grandfather, neighbor or client but simply as a coach of the Hawks. Can you imagine trying to talk people into keeping him. “Man, let’s keep Woodson he lost in the first round of the playoff but won three games. C’mon he deserves a chance after 4 years “. Does that make sense on any level? Sure it does on a very very mediocre level. Ownership has to ask themselves where do we REALLY want to be.

By kirknga

June 11, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

I’m not a Woodson fan. But the argument for keeping him would also include that the Hawks record has improved each year and that they made the playoffs this year.

It seems to me that it’s harder to fire a coach who has shown an upward trajectory in terms of wins than it is one who has reach a plateau or gone on a decline.

Even in the “weaker” Eastern Conference, going from 13 wins to a playoff spot in a few seasons is a strong point in favor of keeping Woodson. I hope that is not the case, but we shouldn’t be surprised if he is resigned.

I hope they offer him a i year extension and he leaves on his own accord.

By Don!

June 11, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Any chance of you getting to Bibby and asking him to comment about that last foul called on him late in the fourth quarter in 2002 during one of the ‘rigged’ games? Remember, the one right after Kobe elbowed him in front of the official and there wasn’t a call made …

Tin foil hats were not necessary after that game, and I’ve always believed there was something fishy about that game.

Later,

Don!

By ray

June 11, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

Doc, that makes more sense than just about anything else. And I say this wanting Woody to be gone. But I can’t lie. It makes sense….

By doc

June 11, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

having heard bibby speak before my guess is he would go the party line and say, “it is nonsense, we had our chance in the seventh game and threw bricks at the basket from the field and the free throw line”. whether you like him or not the guy is a first class second generation stand up guy and a pro. when he speaks he avoids controversy and doesnt talk about anything except what was his own responsibility especially when it doesnt work. i call it CLASS.

By doc

June 11, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

thrashers lost another top prospect for the head coach opening.

hmmmm, what is the common thread here folks?

BASG

now, how many missed that answer?

By ray

June 11, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Sautee, e-mail sent and another on the way. Did you get the first one?

By ray

June 11, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Doc, yep…..

By Sautee

June 11, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Ray*

Got the original one. The alternate email addy you gave bounced back the first time. I just resent it. But if you don’t get it there check your regular one when you get home. We’ll connect eventually.

By Sautee

June 11, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

doc

Frighteningly enough, the exact number that missed your question was 9!

And we know which 9.

heh heh

By ray

June 11, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Sautee, sent you the second e-mail from the second address. Hopefully that gives you a solid address to return mail to. Worse case scenario…I check my home email when I get home at 0630 hrs.

By Ken Strickland

June 11, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

DOC-your reasoning is sound, but consider this. Prior to accepting the job, Sund had to know of Gearon’s preference for retaining Woodson. after all, ownership rejected all 3 of BK’s attempts to fire him last season. If Sund accepted the job knowing his hands were tied on the HC decision, why not resign Woodson early and get it over with?

This is a very important decision considering it could affect the teams ability to retain its RFA’s or attract other FA’s. A FA wanting to play in an uptempo OFF might not view a team coached by Woodson as a good option. Also, a FA wanting more mins, as a nonstarter, than he got with his previous team might not feel comfortable playing under Woodson’s extremely limited rotation. The importance of the FA option is magnified even more when you consider we don’t have any draft picks this yr.

I don’t dislike Woodson personally, because I don’t know him that way. I don’t think he’s necessarily a bad HC, just bad for this team and it’s young talent, which needs further developing. It’s obvious that BK and Woodson clashed on style of play and player development. BK didn’t want to fire him because he was losing, because that was expected. It was the lack of player and team development, as well as the contrast in preference in style of play, that triggered the rift. That same conflict still exists between Woodson and most of his players. It’s unfair to force him to adjust to an uptempo style of play that goes against everything he’s been taught and has successfully experienced.

These young Hawk players have had to function under conflict and adverse conditions at every level. On the court, on the sidelines(Woodson), and in the front office(ownership).

By O'brien

June 11, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

Here is something to think about. Don Waddell fired the Thrashers coach 6 games into the hockey season. Don Waddell was the interim coach for the rest of the season (the Thrashers were horrible, and one of their best players (Hossa) requested a trade, because he did not like the direction the franchise is going, and said he would not sign a new contract here). The NHL finals have been over for a few days, and the NHL draft is coming up on June 20-21. The Thrashers have the 3rd pick in the draft, and as of now, they still dont have a coach. What does that tell you about the ASG? Another example of the slow process Sekou talks about…

By terrell barron

June 11, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

Lets see, who would I rather have on my team? Childress or Kurt Thomas? PLEASE! They can do better than that! Give me someone like Diop, PJ Brown, or Elson to help in the paint, or someone like Shannon Brown, Roger Mason Jr., or Jarvis Hayes to replace Chills off the bench. But you can keep Kurt Thomas. We might as well re sign Lorenzen Wright, if that’s the case. lol!

By cp

June 12, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

Great points O’brien . I wonder sometimes why the B.A.S.G. even own two pro teams. It’s almost like they thought it would be cool to have the title as owners. Outside of having that title I have no idea what else they do. I dont even know why I think they would get the situation with the Hawks right when they fumbled the ball when it came to the Thrashers. They did not capitalize of the Thrashers playoff appearance so I just dont see them doing anything with the Hawks. This city wants a winning team and the playoffs showed that if you play good ball they will come. People in Atlanta are not stupid. It almost feels as if the Hawks will get the same treatment the Thrashers got last offseason, do nothing to improve the team. These guys are complete jokes

By Casey

June 12, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this

Listen up, petey matt! I gotta give you credit. You catch on pretty quick, for a punk. Scroll the Troll! Because all you’re doing with your, “Casey is a sad embarrassment,” crap is BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOring the hades out of me!

I enjoy chaos. I love to create a scenario condusive to bickering that causes others to lose their cool. Makes my day when idiots like you get caught in the game. The most adament Casey bashers are the fools offering up a stage for my nonsense!! That is why I refer to y’all as idiots. Sorry, pete but it REALLY entertains me when fools like you take the bait. I am disappointed a bit that you were so eager to quit the fight! Usually, the game at least lasts a few rounds. Since this game ain’t for ya, remember the words of Wooden. “Don’t let what you cannot do interfere with what you can!”

Since you’re not reading this, or anything else I say, I will move on to idiot #4…..whenever it responds.

Best Wishes,

The Great Rev. Casey verses 1:29-1:44.

Holla!

By derelict

June 12, 2008 3:33 AM | Link to this

I would not be surprised if this Casey person is none other than the bitter former Hawks hack. BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 12, 2008 5:21 AM | Link to this

Casey, I’ll give you this — you are a lot more entertaining than my stalker.

By KevinM

June 12, 2008 6:37 AM | Link to this

This soap opera continues while all the other teams work on tweaking their roster. We will be lucky to just sign the Joshes and bring in a new HC. Woody doesn’t deserve to be back and the ASG is the only group that would allow this junk to go on this long. 106 wins in 4 years does not make for an excellent job.

By ray

June 12, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this

Wondering what today will bring in the way of actual news….

By richbrave

June 12, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

doc:

Well its up to the surgeons and hospital now. Back-to-backer’s Friday and Monday with the third on hold for the moment. Still planning on meeting you in person next spring. See you in the funny papers. Later.

By Ken Strickland

June 12, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

I’m going to stop torturing myself trying to figure out the next move from our SAASG(SORRY “A” ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP). There is no logical rhyme or reason to their madness. They personify the definition of the word DYSFUNCTIONAL.

And what has happened to DRMARYB? I miss her energy.

By I.MUS WRITE

June 12, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

KEN- Dr MaryB has been kidnapped by a group of third grade english teachers,taken to an undisclosed location and forced to learn the english language from scratch.

Terrell- you are on to sumthing -I would rather have a Diop or Elson to pair up with Horford…… Dont get me wrong K.Thomas is still a good player especially on the defensive end,but not for Chills.Thomas is similar to Horford but much older …. no thanx…… Now ZAZA for Thomas and u got a deal

If Chillz is the one to go -give me Jarvis Hayes…… we would still miss all the wonderful things Chills can do, but hayes has range and scores in bunches.

Im sick of these owners …. with there penny pinching ways -dam shame the fans deserve more…….

By doc

June 12, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

richbrave, you will be in my thoughts obviously. check in when you can, more to talk about and discuss in the future. pray things go smoothly.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

June 12, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

No I guess we’ll see if the contact will be accepted.

richbrave - good luck; saw your post on the braves/mib blog this morning.

By khao$

June 12, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Woodson offered an extention? Disgusting. So three wins in the playoffs and unexpired play in the playoffs warrants more money and time? Unbelievable…

By roan st

June 12, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

All of my questions regarding Rick Sund have just been answered. Need I say more?

By jhan

June 12, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

doc - looks like you were right. Woody gets a 2-year extension. I can’t believe he would turn that down.

If things start off slow will the ASG let Sund fire him right after they signed him? I have to believe he gets at least 1.5 years to make something happen.

Next up are the Joshes - do we keep them both, trade them both, sign & trade one, trade Marvin & one of them?

Only a couple more weeks until Sund will have to make these decisions. He won’t have the luxury working these deals at the ASG’s leisure. Teams that want Smith & Chills are going to strike quickly.

The rest of the league knows by now that Atlanta can’t make a decision without spending months arguing. A smart GM will put the ASG on the spot which will force them to make a bad decision.

My prediction is that we will either overpay for the Joshes or get less than equal value in return. This equates to trading baseball cards with your little brother.

Hopefully Sund has figured this out & has multiple plans ready. Even if he does, I wonder if the owners will let him operate as he should.

By terrell barron

June 12, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Woody offered a 2 yr extension? WTF!

By Ryder

June 12, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Hope everything goes well richbrave.

I heard that Woodson got a chance to sign a two year extension. That’s fair enough. However it’s up to Sund to provide him the upgrades necessary to make it to the next level should Woodson re-sign.

By doc

June 12, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

not surprised in the least. it will be interesting to know how much they are putting up to continue with the same regime and how many assistants stick.

By Clyde

June 12, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

I Quit

By terrell barron

June 12, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Just like I thought. Sund is a puppet for the ASG. He was just messin with our minds. And I actually thought he would get rid of this clown. What a freakin joke!!!

By terrell barron

June 12, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

What I was trying to say in my last post was, I had actually started to believe that he would fire Woody’s azz. Damm, I’m an idiot!

By terrell barron

June 12, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

The question is, will they let Sund fire him if we get off to a slow start? If they dont, I QUIT. Just like Clyde!

By chuckw/deadjournalist

June 12, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

I’m not shocked by it either. If the ownership situation is resolved in February, as asserted by David Stern, then a whole new light will have to be cast on the situation.

Not to mention what, if any, roster upgrades Sund makes (or is allowed to make).

If the the Hawks stumble out of the gate, and by the mid-way point are five games under; the same coaching options that are on the market now will still be out there in February.

Since I doubt Woodson’s extension will be a budget-buster; eating the last 1.5 years of his contract wouldn’t have a negative impact on the budget of the next coach. Again assuming the ownership issues are resolved - a cheap, young, first-time coach or a high-priced, high-profile coach would most likely be the two options to replace Woodson.

Or who knows, maybe the roster looks entirely different by September.

By Ken Strickland

June 12, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

DOC-you are a wise man, but just once couldn’t you have been an absolute dump “A” and gotten it wrong? As you can tell, I just got the awful news about Woodson’s 2yr contract extension offer. My last hope is Woodson rejects it, for whatever reason.

Well, with Woodson on board, we won’t have a need for a draft pick. Unless we could acquire another Horford, the drafted player(s) wouldn’t get off the bench anyway. We’ll have no choice but to resign Chills, because without him we’ll have absolutely no bench.

I shouldn’t be suprised. I mentioned on another blog that it didn’t make sense for ownership to fire him now after preventing BK from doing so on 3 occasions. Well, another 2yrs of having to focus on the players rather than the team. I was just hoping against my better judgement.

By Sautee

June 19, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this

If there is any one at the AJC checking this blog… It’s Thursday, June 19th and the 4 blogs that were posted AFTER this one… the four newer ones, all have the comment boxes missing.

Hard to have a blog without comments.