Hawks

By Mike

May 31, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

All the information above has just about been covered. Nice effort on the write up. Sekou do you think that we will try to trade into the draft, say maybe the middle of the 1st to nab someone like Hibbert who can SHARE minutes with Zaza at the 5(give us that big body) or maybe nab a solid bench scorer and defender like Brandon Rush?

By Ben

May 31, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Good stuff.

I was thinking… Mr. Sund has seen Bibby play quite a few times, seeing that the Sonics played the Kings 4 times a year during his many years with Seattle, so maybe he has formed an opinion on Bibby and might have a trade idea for him.

By femhawkfan

June 1, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

The countdown begins, Hawk fans!!!

In exactly one month, free agency begins. If you haven’t already started, begin crossing your fingers about Smoov, Chill, and perhaps even Salim!

Sund, we are depending on you, so don’t disappoint the Hawk fans!

By johnny

June 1, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this

smith, you are on the hawks payroll, so i don’t about all this that you are writing, we need another paper in this town, otherwise guys like smith will cuddle this hawks all day and never break a story rather we’ll have to hear it on the evil empire first

By cp

June 1, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

I have a feeling that Woodson will be back. I just feel that this team would be better with a new coach.

By ray

June 1, 2008 2:11 AM | Link to this

Hmmph.

By MannyT

June 1, 2008 2:22 AM | Link to this

Sekou, thanks for the rest of the story.

Hopefully, the Sund hire is one of those success stories where the best move is not getting the first choice deal done.

Unless something very unusual happens in the coaching market, I suspect Woody will get a multi year (guessing two) extension. Not that I’m a fan of his, but it is too difficult to keep/get decent assistants on a 1 yr extension. If the ASG is going to loose their Woody, I’d expect them to want a guy with head coaching experience. I doubt Avery Johnson is excited about this job.

I hope Sund can tweak things to get us a little better next season with a big jump in 2009-10.

Looking for good CRAP.

By HB Ando

June 1, 2008 2:33 AM | Link to this

I continue to be baffled by folks who misunderstand, or just plain miss, what a solid job Sekou does, in balancing a blunt assessment of a perpetually flawed franchise, with the reality of having to interactt with every member, and level, of this organization, on a daily basis.

I’d like to see how long some of you Einstein’s would last at your jobs, if you chose to give your bosses and co-workers brutally honest feedback, regarding everything they did, that you didn’t agree with. At best, you’d be ostracized by peers and management. And, more likely, you’d just be kicked to the bricks.

This isn’t Jim Rome, or even Mark Bradley, where they can recklessly ramble, without any real need to manage daily relationships.

Sekou is the AJC’s BEAT writer. His job requires him to spend almost every day of the season interacting with the players, coaches, front office and ownership.

Is it really that complex to understand how impossible it would be for him to do his job if he burned all those bridges, just to make a handful of otherwise irrelevant readers happy? It’s no coincidence that the folks who show up here, weakly attempting to take Sekou to task, are names that rarely establish a presence for more than a week or so.

If you want to follow the baseless ramblings of at-large opinions, rarely grounded in supportable fact, then simply attend to Mark Bradley and T. Moore, who have no accountability to the folks they torpedo, and who rarely bother to incorporate a sliver of objectivity into their op-ed pieces.

So while most of the long-term regulars are humble enough to appreciate the fact that Sekou provides us an open forum, to speak our minds, we still have to deal with short-bus riding, mouth-breathing, wholly inconsequential passers’ by, like Johnny, who would be better served, and more impactful, if they simply climbed the stairs of their basement bedrooms, in their parent’s houses, to grind their collective axe’s of life failure with the only people who pretend to care about their opinion.

So, Johnny, other than a meaningless swipe at Sekou, do you have anything to contribute to this blog?

That’s what I thought…..

By michael m.

June 1, 2008 4:45 AM | Link to this

hey guys, wasnt posting this past year but still watched all the games on league pass and occasionally checked in to read what you all had to say. btw, ando, great post above…. johnny, are you an idiot? sekou does a seriously solid job. but the most damning comment you made about your (lack of) intelligence/insight is your suggestion that we need another paper in town. why don’t you start one then? you do realize that newspapers are a dying breed, no?

anyway, it was great seeing the hawks make the playoffs and take the first step. unless you go the boston vet route, it’s a process to build a team into an elite playoff performer. just need to add carve and finetune the core sculpture of our team.

i’m not too concerned with our keeping the joshes as there aren’t any teams with the money to steal them away. pretty much everyone is over the cap. memphis is most likely gonna wait until 09 but the player they are/were looking to possibly go after (inside info as of the last week of the regular season) was igoudala. how the playoffs and draft change that, i’m not sure. … and i’m pretty sure philly would go after brand if they even had the money the make a max offer, which they don’t. smoove overlaps what thaddeus brings to them anyway.

i think smoove will go for something between 11 and 12 million per. we should over 11, i don’t think he will turn down that much security to go through another season without guarantees for his financial future.

chill could be a little trickier if a certain team pinpoints him, but that isn’t likely this offseason. just the law of supply and demand. too many undeserving players got max contracts the last few years and so there isn’t enough green to go around. i think we can get chill done for around 7 per. it’s crucial that sund be a master in these negotiations so that we not get ourselves in future cap trouble. signing players to reasonable deals allows you to keep most to all of your core.

excited to see how the next year plays out. horford is a dream, isn’t he? and we need to get a shooting coach to work with law on keeping his feet together on his jumper. can always tell when he’s gonna miss because his feet go all over the place. … wish marvin would take intensity injections. even when he starts to show a bit of fire, it doesn’t feel organic. and organic fire, a flame that lights from within, is what he needs to take the next step. he’s like the little brother that needs his older siblings to go away so that he can become the man of the house, if only in his imagination and belief. i’m less sure he has it in him, but i still like what he brings to the table. curious what it would cost to lock him up this offseason as well. i wonder if 5 yrs/$37-40 million would do it. not sure i would even do it as an organization, but could be a potentially shrewd move. and i know it’s not gonna happen, probably not even on the hawks radar considering all the other contract and coaching uncertainty.

go hawks! and go hawks fans!

ps mildly curious if someone could tell me clyde’s reaction after the playoffs. bk’s gone, but is he still using that whole Fire everyone as his signature?

By morris

June 1, 2008 6:40 AM | Link to this

I have a few questions Blog Z. First, what makes you think Sund has the call on the head coaches job when Knight was rebuffed three times by ownership when he tried to fire Woody. Has Sund been given more power than Knight? Second, you stated that it was not true that Chris Grant turned the hawks job down. But you admitted that he was offered the job and eventually he pulled is name from consideration when a contract could not be worked out. That damn sure sounds to me like the guy turned the job down.

By DAP01

June 1, 2008 7:23 AM | Link to this

Is Woodson: an average offensive coach? an average motivator? an inspiring figure on the sideline? an average coach in anyway? an average coach to develop talent?

Has he ever actually drawn up a play other than to tell everyone to stand still and watch Joe?

Time for a change.

By ET

June 1, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Hey Johnny…are you a moron?*

We don’t need another paper because of Sekou. We need another paper because of the liberal crap they spew out as news and editorials, which morons like you end up believing. If you believe Sekou has to go negative to be correct about the Atlanta teams, then you have answered my question from line one with a resounding YES*.

By Sautee

June 1, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Johnny

When you start that new paper, Ramon, Dark Ryder, and me have just the right guy for your new editor. Heh heh.

Ray

Good to see you back. Thanks for having my back.

peace

By mark

June 1, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Sund is saying all the right things. He should be considering his experience. The real evaluation of Sund will begin when we see what players are added to strengthen our bench and what uni JSmoove and JChill are wearing next season!

By JB

June 1, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

I like that Sund gives Billy his due respect. I think it was for the best that Billy moved on, but let’s never forget who had the cojones not to back down from his vision when the ownership team was ripping apart at the seams. Because, if that doesn’t happen, our cornerstone stays in Utah; games 3, 4 and 6 against the Celtics never happen; and this city has to wait yet again for a team to set them on fire.

By terrell barron

June 1, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Who’s the worst road team, the Braves or the Hawks? Hmmmm? I’ve only got one thing to say. Woody needs to go, and he should probably take Bobby with him. lol!

By Ramon

June 1, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

JB, I actually agree with you. And I think Sund has a great appreciation for what BK done after being in similar situation in Detroit. I mean who on this blog actually thinks Danny Ainge is a better GM than BK was? Danny Ainge was delivered Garnett. And Ray Allen came from Danny giving up on the over-priced (whom he picked)Wally. And needless to say anyone should know not to trade a rookie unless its for a superstar, yet he was impatient with JJ. Yet, this season he’s awarded GM of the year for succeeding on his third or fourth vision.

BK was here for over four seasons, and each season the franchise was in a better situation. How many GMs across the league could honestly say that in their first 4 years with a franchise, that the situation progressed EACH season? This is similar to the story of the 3 pigs and the big bad wolf. If you want to build a franchise correctly, it will not happen overnight.

I’m quite sure everyone here believes Acie Law is a better point guard than Rondo (at least I hope so). So when people continue to think what if with Paul and Williams, they forget to realize the coaches they’re playing for. Byron Scott just happened to play his career with the first or second best point guard since 1978, and Jerry Sloan just happened to coach the other first or second best point guard since 1980.

Woody is a product of Bobby Knight and Larry Brown, neither of whom likes, nor trust young players. So there’s no way Williams nor Paul would be as good as they are now if they were drafted by Atlanta. Not to mention, you can tell by his personality, that Paul and Woody would have a Sprewell and Carlesimo encore.

Sund taking time to understand this, and actually see that its a great vision, a line up where defensively you have no mismatches 1-4 no matter how many pick and rolls happen, is good.

Although the Hawks don’t have the great 5 that every one wants, look at the Spurs for a great example of how to build and be patient. David Robinson, Avery Johnson, Sean Elliott, and Del Negro played together for a LONG time without ever making it past Utah, Houston, nor Pheonix. It wasn’t until Robinson went down with an injury that they became LUCKY and won the lottery. But through out the years they stuck to the plan they had.

In Avery, they had a PG who couldn’t shoot as good as Smooth (who many complain about), but they never gave up on him. And the only big trade they made were because of character issues when they traded away Rodman. And now its that same patience that has the Spurs as the top franchise in the NBA. What other contender you know DRAFTED their best 3 players?

With the exception of JJ, even if you keep Marvin, 3 seasons from now Horford, Marvin, Smooth, Law, and Chillz could be the very foundation that has the Hawks contending season after season. So I truly hope Sund has patience, and as fans I hope we do as well. I know I’m usually the first in line to scream “Trade Marvin!” but even if he never does, the future can only get better from now.

By Ramon

June 1, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

My prediction for 08-09, if Flip Saunders gets fired, Sund will try to get him to replace Woody.

By Sautee

June 1, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Ramon

Good post, but I’ll argue one point:

“BK was here for over four seasons, and each season the franchise was in a better situation. How many GMs across the league could honestly say that in their first 4 years with a franchise, that the situation progressed EACH season?”

BK did do a decent job dismantling the mess he inherited. But I truly believe that you or I or most of this blog could have assembled a roster this talented (or more) with that many lottery picks. And of course when you sink down to a measly 13 wins, it’s certainly easier to improve every year. The bar wasn’t that high.

But, maybe this gives us hope - had the Pistons kept Sund, he would have also had an improving situation each year for his first four years.

peace

By ILL-Logical

June 1, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Flip is 1) damaged goods and 2)costs more than woody will.

Mr. Sund’s record with bigs raises some crimson banners; with no draft pick, FA candidates are probably the only route to go. I have reviewed Chris Mihm’s record and hereby withdraw my support for him: the guy is a walking MASH unit.

But as I suggested on another topic pagr, Mr. Sund’s job 1 here will be to sit down with Josh Smith,JJ and Woody together and claify any communication/ personality issues NOW.

By Ramon

June 1, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Sautee, I understand what you’re saying, but Baylor didn’t do a good job building with lottery picks. Neither did Memphis nor Chicago for a good while, build good through the draft. And Ainge had his problems also. I’ll admit I wouldn’t have drafted Smith. And most of this blog would’ve drafted Conley, or Horford’s smoked out teammate. lol

By Ramon

June 1, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Ill, Flip has taken his team to the conference finals each season, and once with Minnesota. Also, he has a great record of doing good with point guards. Flip also has an offense. Could you imagine JJ coming off as many screens as Rip had the luxury of using? And Flip is a player’s coach, which attracts other free agents.

By Horford Rox

June 1, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Ramon, it is painful to admit this, but I HATED it when they drafted #15. I thought we were stuck with the “Landlord,” whom we already picked to play the 4 or as an undersized 5. Why then did we need Al, instead of a PG? Well…thank God, I ain’t the GM! Sheldon is gone and Horford Rox!

As far as Conley goes, I was disappointed when they passed him up. At the time, I thought he was a better choice for the Hawx than the former gator was. Obviously, I was WRONG!!

Well…I’m anxious to see what Law can do, once he takes over for MB. I believe in the young fella, and am still holding out hope for Marvin to become a consistent contributor. In regards to MW, I’ve seen a few flashes here and there. The development of Chill$ has taught me to have more patience than I used to have. I thought #1 was a goofy dude, with big hair, and an awkward shot. Aside from the big hair, it sounds sort of like young Mr. Williams. Especially the goofy part.

Go HAWX!

By HB Ando

June 1, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Ramon, you can’t be serious in suggesting that Law is a better point than Rondo. Law may have an edge as a shooter, but other than that, he’s not in the same class in any other respect. Now I believe Law can’t be judged on his rooke campaign, due to injury and Woody’s bafflingly inconsistent use of him. But Rondo smoked Bibby, and held his own with the Detroit guards. He lacks only a consistent outside shot of being a top-10 PG. He’s already a top-ten defender, rebounder and assist guy, as far as PG’s go. I don’t think Law is nearly as good as Stuckey, who Detroit took after we took Law (and who was getting rave reviews right before last years’ draft).

Only time (and a different head coach) will tell if Law can be a quality PG in this league.

Secondly, Flip isn’t going anywhere. Detroit played about as well as they could have, under his guidance. They simply didn’t have the bench or healthy personnel to compete with Boston. I’d say that Flip out-coached Doc during the series, regardless of the outcome. And the defense he had them playing was suffocating, and further proof of just how quickly Rondo is developing into a quality PG, in only his second year.

Unfortunately, this blog is left with nothing but rampant speculation, regarding who will be coaching here, who will be playing here and if we’ll be moving back into the draft.

On another issue that has been discussed here, I do not think it’s valid to suggest that because Billy purportedly wasn’t aloud to fire Woody, the same will be true of Sund. I find it unlikely that Sund would take this job unless he was given power to make a head coaching change. As long as he’s been in the league, he didn’t need this job unless it came with conditions that he felt would empower him to make his mark.

His draft history suggests he values acquiring size, with upside. Hopefully, he’ll make that a priority here.

I still say Bibby and Marvin are the most likely players to move, with Childress the third option, if you are considering primary rotation players from last seasons’ roster.

These silly references to annual improvement under Billy are confounding. When an NBA team has one of the worst season’s in the history of the league, with 13 measley wins, there’s absolutely no where to go but up. Since Billy is now gone, it’s pointless to waste anymore breath on his obvious ineptitude. And it’s equally pointless to waste time defending him.

He sucked. Good riddance.

Sund’s autonomy will quickly be defined by his actions, or lack thereof.

The draft rapidly approaches. Can Sund, and the ASG, move decisively to obtain a worthwhile pick, as they invariably look to maintain a mid-$50 million payroll? The mid-$60 million, required to keep everyone, just isn’t going to happen. So any ideas folks here have on what should happen to this roster, during the summer, need to incorporate the real math required to stay within those payroll parameters.

Anything above that is just Mark Bradley-esqe, fantasy GM b******.

By HB Ando

June 1, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Let me offer a succinct, and fairly concrete, refutation of this nonsensical theory that Paul or Williams could not have stepped into immediately productive roles:

Despite having Marvin, Josh Smith and Shelden Williams already established in Woody’s forward rotation, last pre-season, who was it that immediately entered the arting line up and ended up being the NBA’s runner up for Rookie Of the Year?

Al Horford.

So if Horford, who entered the league with a far less developed skill level than either Paul or Williams (PG is the hardest position to learn in the NBA, since it requires primary ball-handling and decision making responsibilities, as well as needing to know the playbook for all five positions on the floor), could step in and assume a major, starting role, for Woody, where is any supporting logic that neither Paul or Williams would have been able to do the same?

It’s a weak attempt to minimize a draft decision, by Billy Knight, that set the Hawks back by a decade. A decision that was exponentially multiplied by his draft of Shelden, the following summer.

Let me further objectify this point. Training camp lasts about a month. So are you, or anyone else, suggesting that Byron Scott enexpectedly turned Paul into a veteran-level PG in four weeks? The first month of Paul’s rookie year, on a team that had won only 18 games the year before (so it’s not like he had a lot of easy assists on the floor with him), he averaged 16.4 points, 7 dimes and 2 steals.

Face it, the numbers support the fact that Paul hit the NBA hardwood ready to lead. Woody or no Woody, Paul didn’t have anyone like Joe Johnson on that rookie team. If he’d have had Joe to play with, he’d have averaged 10 dimes from the get go.

Quit making excuses for the inexcusable. Great players (read: runner-up for NBA MVP in his 3rd year, at just under 6-feet tall!) will play great in any conditions.

Stop the nonsense!

By Ben

June 1, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

For those who want Woodson back:

Please name one player in the last 4 years who has overachieved besides Josh Smith (who really isn’t as good as people think)

By HB Ando

June 1, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

And let me say one last thing about Paul (which I know would make many folks very happy): I’ve taken a lot of grief for harping on Billy’s monumental failure in passing on him. I’ve had Sekou state, here on this blog, that my position on taking Paul over Marvin was well-established, with him, BEFORE that draft, and has never constituted hindsight.

I would be more than happy to never bring it up again. But idiots continue to post ridiculous positions supporting various excuses for passing on Paul. The day those brain-dead posts stop will be the day I happily refrain from addressing the Paul issue ever again.

But the impetus is on those who continue to defend Billy’s failure. He’s gone (thank the heavens). As soon as folks quit blathering that it was OK to pass on Paul, I’ll quit rehashing the fact-based reality on why it was the all-time worst decision in the history of this franchise (yes, even above trading Dominique, who never ended up second in the MVP voting, like Paul did this year-ahead of Lebron, no less).

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

ANDO, the one thing you assume is that WOODSON would have let CP3 ‘keep’ the ball in his hands!! personally, i DO NOT believe he would have, especially as a rookie!!! now THAT is the difference in him under BSCOTT as opposed to the BRAINLESS TRUST!!!

CP3’s talents are great, no denyin’!! we get you on that!!! but you CANNOT remove WOODSON from the argument nor his impact!!! just does NOT fly!!!

By Sautee

June 1, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

Ben

I do NOT want Woodson back, but to answer your question, I’d have to say that Zaza definitely overachieved his first year here. You asked.

I don’t think it was Woody’s coaching, though….new city, new team, etc.

By david

June 1, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Sund’s a good hire. How can anyone in this city worry about Sund as a bad hire when we have had two terrible GMs in a row. Terrible. C’mon now THINK. Sund has been in the NBA for almost 40 years. Has he made mistakes, yeah but who hasn’t. He’s a smart man I’m sure is not a repeat dumb dumb like you know who or you know whos. Sports radio today was saying we should have hired a no name GM and gone from there. A no name GM. What?? Calling him a retread. A GM needs to be long in the tooth with the NBA. A coach is a different story. That’s what we need to worry about. Woodson still as the coach is close to a crime for this team. Team growth, chemistry and winning are not this guy’s thing. Wanting to be here and knowing the players is about all he has going for him that I can see. If Sund keeps Woodson I guarantee you is because the owners want to keep him. He has been awful for years with a
terrible record to back it up. Have one decent series and saves his job for another crappy year of basketball coming up. Stay tuned.

By ILL-Logical

June 1, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

IF Woody stays and Larry Drew is enticed to stay, Larry will be the head coach by December.

Now Woody does not like/trust Larry,in fact had fired him but BK overruled him.

So this will be a bit of a sticky wicket but keep your eye on the Larry Drew situation as Mr. Sund organizes the confusion here.

By Sautee

June 1, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

mychalc

Sorry, man but I gotta go strongly with Ando on this one. In ‘05 we had at point guard:

1.The failed JJ experiment 2. Royal Ivey 3. Tyronn Lue

Are you saying that CP couldn’t have beaten out Ivey or Lue for starter’s minutes? C’mon man, you know he would have.

Just like this year, when Horford showed himself to be a man, he got major minutes.

I hate to disagree with a fellow bass player, but I do so respectfully,

peace

Ando

Great point about ‘nique never finishing second. Gives a true perspective, eh?

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

Sautee, that’s not what i’m sayin’ AT ALL my friend!!! come on now!! my posts do not prove me to be that unknowledgeable??!!! or do they??LOL

my point is WOODSON’s offense (or lack of) would have taken the ball outta CP3’s hands…PERIOD!! you are pretendin’ WOODSON is NOT who he has shown himself to be for 4 yrs!!! again, you cannot remove WOODSON’s impact on CP3 no matter what…PERIOD!!! that’s like walkin’ with blinders on bro!!!

By HB Ando

June 1, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

Well, guess I should be doing a better job of keeping up with the rumor mill. I don’t see how Flip is the fall guy for Detroit’s failure to get back to the finals. I thought the attacking defense they played on Boston clearly demonstrated the quality of coaching he provides. Those types of rotations don’t happen without a solid, and well-developed scheme. Truth is the roster lacked an additional rebounder, since ‘Sheed is largely uninspired to use his world-class length and athleticism to put out any effort on the boards.

Don’t know how it’s Flip’s fault that they don’t have a center.

Don’t know how it’s Flip’s fault that Chauncey and Rip were both playing with significant injuries.

If they want to dump him, the Hawks should scoop him up, though I doubt he’d come work for what would likely be an insulting financial offer.

Truth is that the Celtics were the better team. If I was an NBA head coach, I’d ask for a contract kicker, just for having to deal with ‘Sheed.

For all the talk about the Big 3, the real difference for the Celtics, throughout the playoffs (and this should be a point pounded into the heads of everyone in the Hawks front office, and the partners in the ASG), were Rondo and Perkins.

A point guard and a center. The same two positions that folks like me have been begging the Hawks to address since Billy first took over. If you rightfully admit that Law is not a pure point guard, and that S. Jones and Horford are not centers, then Billy completely ignored fortifying those positions, during every draft he controlled.

Zaza’s signing was one of his very few solid moves. Speedy was one of a litany of bad decisions. He passed on Monta Ellis to take Salim, despite the fact that Salim showed no real potential to be anything other than a one-dimensional, undersized 2-guard. There’s a guy in this upcoming draft, who will likely go in the early second round, named Lester Hudson. If you haven’t heard his story, google him. Lester Hudson could walk into Philips, right now, and simply obliterate Salim Stoudamire. I’m not so sure he couldn’t do the same thing to Acie Law.

The Hawks would do good to make a minor trade and position themselves to draft this kid. Same with a kid named Mike Taylor. Both are raw, but they have physical skills, along with very explosive scoring ability, that would make either of them the kind of off-the-bench scorers that folks have always wanted Salim to be. But Salim is such a liability, in every area of the game except for 3-point shooting, that he’ll never be what this team needs.

Maybe we can trade him for that second rounder……

And mark my words: Kevin Love would be a perfect fit here, as long as the long-term plan is to play Josh Smith and Al Horford on the front line. Imagine a younger, healthy Brad Miller, knocking down 20-footers (he shot over 35% from beyond the arc last year), and threading quick passes, for easy baskets, to the athletic Horford and Smith.

It will be hard for the Hawks to keep off-season fan momentum, without making some type of move back into the draft (not including the handful of hardcore hoops junkies who populate SS’s blog, representing no more than 1/10 of 1% of potential ticket sales).

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

ILL-Logical, i must’ve missed that one man!!! when did WOODSON try to fire DREW??? i know THEUS wanted him this past season. but i totally an attempt to fire!!???

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

s/b…but i totally missed an attempt to fire!!???

By HB Ando

June 1, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Sautee, thanks for the support. Myc, you know I respect you, bro, but true greatness imposes its presence, in every sport. Paul would have so dominated every practice that Woody, as he did with Horford, would have had no choice but to hand him the reigns.

And don’t doubt for a second that Joe Johnson would have, almost instantaneously, pushed that plan. On my own tier, as a player, I was always a primary scorer. I don’t have to have been as good as Joe Johnson to be able to access the mindset: scorers LOVE playing with natural point guards. The Hawks wouldn’t have broken camp, in Paul’s rookie year, before Johnson would have made it clear to the coaching staff and organization that he wanted to play along side of Paul.

I’ve pointed this stat out before, and it’s all you need to know about how much Joe would have jumped at the chance to have Paul play point: Joe’s 3-point percentage, his last year in Phoenix, when he played with Nash, was .478. The next year, when Billy made the ridiculous attempt to turn him into a point guard, his percentage dropped to .356.

It’s a drop I predicted, here on this blog, BEFORE his first season as a Hawk even began. And it’s why he’s so happy to have Bibby here.

Woody could not have stood in Paul’s way. Don’t forget that NO had a healthy Speedy when Paul arrived, coming off of a 13 point, 6 dime, 2 steal season, as the Hornets’ starter. We didn’t have anyone close to Speedy at that spot (though Billy paid $26 million for Speedy’s ghost, the next summer).

Horford’s role, as a rookie, under Woody, is sufficient evidence that Woody’s willing to let a rookie take on a major role, if the guy is the best option.

Got to let go of that urban myth, bro.

By Sautee

June 1, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Myk

I’m NOT trying to minimize Woodson’s negative effect. What I AM saying, (and I think this is one of Ando’s points), is that Horford showed up “ready to play” and got major minutes, even though he had MORE competition on the front line than CP3 would have had at PG.

Not saying that Woodson’s offense would have enhanced CP3’s talents - yeah, right!….

but that MAJOR talent cannot be denied, and that he and Horford have talents that even Woody would see fit to use.

And Myk, I’d never accuse you of being unknowledgeable. Sorry if you took it that way.

But we can agree to disagree can’t we?

Ando

I’d give Marvin and or Chills to get Love in a heartbeat. His court vision and passing skills for his size are stupendous. We’d have the best passing frontcourt in the league. Give us a coach with imagination and look out.

By MannyT

June 1, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

mykhalc It is clear that most everyone aside from us holds Woody’s coaching in much higher regard. Not saying that they wouldn’t rate him low, just not as lowly as we do.

Coach Killer may have had success with CP3, but I honestly believe that Paul would not have been in the top 5 for MVP if he played here.

Did Zaza get better under Woody or did his game slowly die. Good in year one, ok in year 2, sucky in year 3 except for his Rocky playoff appearance.

Check Salim’s numbers over the years with Woody. Compare Salim’s rookie numbers to AC’s. The WAF sucks life out of average players’ games.

Not going to get into it w/Ando. He’ll duck the key points.

You’re unlikely to get anything for Salim. He’s a restricted free agent. Not likely to get a sign & trade for a guy that probably gets a 1 or 2 yr deal.

I just hope Sund finds a way to get a decent 8-9 player rotation for this team next season that can at least hold a playoff spot.

If there is no hope, we live with the PAIN.

By WONK WONK

June 1, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

um HB Ando.Horford did not start in the starting lineup.Zaza was hurt and when he got back at the beginning of the season dumn Woody repeatedly benched Horford for Zaza.It took him few games to get it right,just like it took till the 3rd game to start Law.Law had it locked down till he got hurt,that’s when idiot Woody kicked in even more.Woody handled Law the worst he possibly could that’s why for most of the season he didn’t do anything,nut when he did have good games he’d always get pulled and never have good minutes the string of games after.He’d go from like 8 assists in 20 something minutes one game.The next he only gets rewarded with 5 minutes and the following game not even a full 2 minutes.

Woody must GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Sautee

June 1, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

Damn my slow typing! Now it looks like I’m just repeating Ando’s post when he actually just beat me to the same points.

Not trying to pile on, Myk.

peace,

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

ANDO, my urban myth has also witnessed just how much HORFORD is involved in the offense also!!! so for all that HORFORD has brought to the team, he STILL has to do a CHILS when it comes to gettin’ his shot…get it off the glass young fella!!! so much for maximizin’ talents or trust!! and yes, i realize the difference in a 5 and a 1!!

i get ALL that you say man. but what i will refuse to believe is that NO MATTER how CP3 showed himself, WOODSON, due to his lack of coachin’ skills, would remain the SAME one-dimensional, non-creative, non-offensive, non-trustin’ rooks, and controllin’ HC that he has shown for 4 yrs!!! and this would have especially held true in yr#1 for PAUL!!!

so stop givin’ more credit to WOODSON than he is capable of bein’ or has shown!!! he is who he is despite any greatness that might have shown itself 3 yrs ago!!!

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

but true greatness imposes its presence, in every sport…bro this is ONLY true when that player is given a chance. take the ball outta CP3’s hands and i don’t know HOW great the cat could/would be. and i say WOODSON is just that kinda coach!! and guess what, he’s PROVED IT!!!

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

Sautee, no worries man. i did not take it as pilin’ on. just thought you missed my point, that’s all. but i think we are both clear on both views now!!;o)

By HB Ando

June 1, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Manny, don’t say you’re not going to get into it with Ando, and then bait me with a “he’ll duck the key points”.

I’d say you’re convenient willingness to ignore the Horford, as rookie, point, which Sautee clearly acknowledged as valid, is more in line with “ducking”.

I’m no Woody fan, and I think he’s not long for this franchise. But there wasn’t a player here, when Paul would have otherwise arrived, who had a chance in hell of keeping him off the court.

And Woody has zero to do with the fact that Salim is about as one-dimensional a player as there is in the league. I know you attend lots of games, so I’m kind of stunned that you don’t readily acknowledge what I think everyone can see, when Salim is on the floor: he is too stiff and slow, laterally, to defend opposing point guards; lacks sufficient handle, vision and passing skills to run the point, and is two small to play the two, which is his natural position, as a one-trick pony of a shooter. While I agree that there have been many times that Woody failed to use Salim, to the detriment of the moment (when points were hard to come by and a little spark was called for), it’s not Woody’s fault that Salim is a tragically limited basketball player. Could he do more for a different coach, in a system better suited to leverage his shooting, and cover for his limitations? Sure. But his obvious flaws are not Woody’s doing.

As far as Zaza goes, he has some limitations as well, as he simply cannot finish above the rim, or in traffic. He’s a classic back-up center, who’s been unfairly asked to, at times, produce starter’s numbers. I don’t know if it’s Woody or the clubhouse dynamic, but my read is that Zaza doesn’t fit in with his teammates, and is an outsider on this squad. As a result, I think it’s arguable that his diminished production is as much a result of increasingly bad, on-court chemistry, that has flowed out of the locker room, and onto the floor. Now, if that’s accurate, is Woody to blame for allowing personality conflicts to limit optimizing Zaza’s potential value on the court? I’d say yes. And if I’m right, I’d say that the team needs to look at trading Zaza and seek out some comparable value for him, if it’s going to improve team chemistry, on and off the court.

But if Woody goes this summer, I’d like to see a new coach come in and put his foot down on petty locker room cliques.

With overall team payroll a looming cloud over the Hawks, this summer, Zaza’s very reasonable salary might be solid trade fodder for a mid-first round pick (I still like Koufos in the mid-teens).

If these guys can’t play together, then shake it up.

Now, Manny, not only have I not ducked the points, I’ve covered thme in detail. Still waiting for you to do the same, as it relates to Horford’s prominent rookie role and its de facto refutation of how Woody wold have limited Paul’s emergence.

Bring it….

By MannyT

June 1, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

If CP3 or Deron Williams were here, we would have had better talent in the PG slot. However, there are ways to hold down/slow the development of that talent. Didn’t like that decision, bench. Don’t run the play that way, here comes TLue.

I don’t question the talent of the 2005 top PGs, but I absolutely question how they would have been handled here vs NO & Utah.

Just for clarification, I’d like to get how Sautee & Ando define pure PG? I doubt CBillups is a pure PG, but he does the job well. Stuckey showed he can manage that PG position even though he’s probably not a pure PG. Same for guys like Arenas. Was Magic a pure PG or a baller of a triple doubling SF with exceptional court vision. Defensively he was rarely guarding the PG thanks to the flexibility of guys like Byron Scott & Norm Nixon.

Gotta run some errands, but I’ll be back and I’ve got mykhalc’s back on this one. You guys are starting to sound like the Woody fan club in your efforts to throw the departed (BK) under the bus a few more times for hyuks & grins.

…and yes, Horford could have been developed for a bit more offense during the season. He seems to have the capability to score when he faces up for that elbow jumper.

Propping up Woody is pure PAIN.

By HB Ando

June 1, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Wonk, it’s an 82-game season, and the point wasn’t what Woody did in the first week, with Horford. The point is that Horford, under Woody got sufficient playing time to earn runner-up in the ROY. And that FACT refutes any position that Paul would not have been given an opportunity to produce, under Woody, as a rookie.

I’m not defending Woody. I expect him to be fired no later than the all-star break. I am, however, strongly objectifying a counter argument to those who feel Paul immediate impact and success, in this league, would not have occurred if he played for Woody. I think it’s utter nonsense, and major disrespect to the greatness of Paul, to suggest that his rapid emergence as a superstar (again, runner up to Kobe for league MVP, in year 3, and ahead of King James), to suggest that Byron Scott is responsible for what Paul has become as a player.

Horford imposed himself into the starting lineup, in rapid fashion, and Zaza.

Honestly, I don’t know how anyone could hang on to this opposing argument. Minimizing what Paul would have meant to this franchise, because Woody was the coach, reeks of trying to rationalize the pain away. It’s roughly akin to you believing it when your girl told you it was her, not you, when she walked out (a couple of days before you say her going at it with another guy in the corner of your favorite bar).

It’s simple: if Horford could earn runner-up, for ROY, under Woody, then that truth squashes any argument that Paul couldn’t have immeidiately established himself in Atlanta, during his rookie campaign.

Jeesh, some of you guys are stubborn in the face of straight-forward logic……

By ray

June 1, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

Myk, that is all it ever comes down to: what one chooses to believe. It’s why people argue and discuss. It’s why one person just cannot see the point that another is trying to make. Or the other way around.

I won’t belabor Ando’s point right now. I see Sautee has already filled that role with alacrity. But I do have one question. Why in the hell do people keep bringing this stuff back up, then get all wrapped around the axle when somebody refutes or disagrees with their opinon? STOP F’IN BRINGING IT UP! JUST LET IT LIE! (No Myk, that’s not directed at you). So damn retarded….

Sautee, you know I gotcha. Any time. And as before, the little turd appears to have ghosted the scene once again. Although, one can never be sure. My well-honed instincts tell me that this is the same guy we had to deal with before…months and months ago. Maybe last year. Who cares. This is where trolls fear to tread….

By MannyT

June 1, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Using one of those teacher comparisons…some are good with smart kids, others are good with slow kids, a few are generally bad, and some can teach anyone. Coaches are similar. I believe Woody is good with experienced, talented players.

That doesn’t do much for a young roster. A top draft pick might have had a chance if he were very talented. Nevertheless, look at his 4 year record here. How many players get better under Woody? The comparison is even more pronounced if you can compare their efforts in other places.

Time will tell for sure, but Smith didn’t stay home to work on his game last summer, he went away from the coaching staff. Diaw is the best example of better of not here. I suspect Salim & Shelden are next. (Not saying they will be great, just better than they were here.)

Ben hit it at 5:14 yesterday. Woody doesn’t seem to develop young players. He has a roster of young players. If you want some good CRAP, someone(s) have to change. It is easier to get a new coach than to get a new roster.

Looking in the Hawks rear view mirror requires us to admit to the PAIN.

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

MannyT, absolutely about HORFORD!!! he’s got a great stroke from 15ft in!!

By ray

June 1, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

Manny, Manny, Manny…

You turned the direction of the argument. And if you were looking for PAIN, you found it with the “he’ll duck the key points” statement. It is akin to going fishing for sea bass and hooking a lemon shark. They’ll both bite the same bait…but do you have the proper tackle for the job? Come on my friend. You’re usually less acidic than this. But…do as you must..

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

let’s see Ando…ROY runner-up ‘cause you could grab 10reb and create enough shots on your own to earn a double-double per game!!! CP3 ‘allowed’ to run a WOODSON team his rookie year!!??? you are now offically ‘sleep deprived’!!! but nice try tho!!!

By Sautee

June 1, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

Manny

For when you get back-

I don’t think I mentioned the term “pure point guard” but for clarification, I’d love to see Acie grow to be what Billups is - whatever anyone calls it.

And believe me, I’m NOT, ABSOLUTELY NOT defending Woody, his methods, coaching, etc. I want him gone, period.

My point is/was that CP3’s talent is so transcendent that even Woody couldn’t fully hold him back.

Would he have finished 2nd in MVP voting this year were he here? I doubt it, but he’d likely still lead the league in assists. And maybe that’s your point, and we said it different ways.

I jumped into this argument based on Myk’s idea that Woodson would have pulled the ball out of CP’s hands as a rookie. It’s no reflection on Woodson’s lack of ability that I think CP is SO good that he would have overcome it, at least to a large degree. Just as Horford’s rebounding and poise overcame Woody’s initial hesitation.

And Myk made a great point in saying that Woody still didn’t trust Horford enough on offense. The difference is that CP was already a primary scorer(at Wake) when he got to the league, whereas Horford was second or third option at UF.

That’s also NOT to say that we shouldn’t run the offense through Horford. Of course we should, quite a few times a game. I love that kid.

So if we still disagree, I’ll let it go. Don’t want a BLE for the rest of the blog.

peace

By ray

June 1, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

I fail to see at all where anyone is supporting Woodson in this jousting contest..

Not trying to fling vitriol, but it would seem to me that one brutally efficient rebuttal after another is causing this wheel to continue turning, bringing up one point after another, only to be turned again after yet another piercing retort. Why do we engage each other thusly? Must be the offseason, where no topic moves quickly and there is only room for speculation and bickering. Hmmmph.

By ray

June 1, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Mmmhmmm. Ando and Sautee. Foes to make even the hardiest Spartans blanche…

MannyT, just a friendly aside. I don’t think you make even the top 5 mention for League MVP unless your team is at least close to a .500 record, or unless you’re putting up numbers that are just absolutely unbelievable. For the record, Horford is such a worker, I think he will extend that jumper to 18 feet. Not only that, but Sund will fall in love with him. This will be a big help in keeping Sund from picking the wrong kind of bigs for us, I think. Horford has more than intrinsic value to us in this way.

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

and when SUND chooses NOT to extended WOODSON then ‘maybe’ some will get it!!! it really is that obvious!!!

By Sautee

June 1, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

Here’s why Ray is poster of the year:

“I won’t belabor Ando’s point right now. I see Sautee has already filled that role with alacrity”.

Now, friends that is skill. Ray can poke you with a stick and make you like it!

Of course he didn’t really try to poke too hard.

Oh the shame of being a slow typist!

By Mike is back

June 1, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

For all you Woody defender, not to worry, he more than likely returns as the coach of Hawks, but don’t expect Woody to coach any different than he has the last four years unless there is mandate from management to start developing the young guys, that still want help Woody’s inept offensive scheme, and stifling control of the team.

Alton Lister was brought in to help the bigs, but you never seen the cat get chance to talk to the bigs during the game when matter the most. People complain that Salim is one dimensional like that’s a rarity in the NBA, isn’t that the definition of role players. So there no way to justify Woody’s treatment of Salim, it just personal.

We all had the same conversation about Woody at the start of the season. Everybody gave the guy the benefit of the doubt. Woody is going to coach next season the same way he has the last four. Let’s hope Sund can at lease get Woody an offensive minded assistant coach, other than that, look for JJ to continue to be rode like a mule.

By Ken Strickland

June 1, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

It doesn’t appear as if this CPaul or DWilliams debate will ever end. Those on the side of drafting PG’s Paul or DWilliams continually refuse to consider two things that might have played into the decisison.

(1)As Mykhalc stated, you can’t ignore the impact Woodson and his OFF style would have had on either player, although you continue to do so.

(2)All of you in this camp continue to blame BK totally for not drafting either PG without considering all of the potential facts. We’re all aware of Woodson’s negaative attitude towards rookie PG’s and his unwillingness to trust and/or play them consistenly. How convenient is it that you refuse to accept that BK’s choice of not drafting rookie PG’s Williams or Paul was a concession to Woodson’s preference for a vets. It’s not like BK ignored the position. He did acquire several vet PG’s, although the results were less than successful. Logic should indicate to you how this would logically favor Woodson’s obvious preference.

We’ve all seen how Woodson will play a vet PG, even when injured, until he’s about to collapse. He plays vets no matter what their limitations or how many mistakes they make. Yet, he will play a rookie PG sparingly no matter how talented they might be, or how much potential they might have, or how much they need playing time to develop, or how well they perform. They are just one mistake form being exiled to the end of the bench until circumstances force him to play them again.

Come on, at least try to appear objective.

By david

June 1, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

This is fun isn’t it, talking junk about the Hawks. The truth is we are all pretty much right on. Ofcourse the team needs tweaking a little here and a little there. This is what makes teams go from good to great or good to worse if not careful. So there is a fine line that is a little fragile on what to do. A GM IS important. Basketball people making smart basketball decisions is critical. BUT the players are the players. For the most part you have to play with what you have. It is what it is except for a little tweaking. HOWEVER the coach is what can be controlled the easiest and the biggest impact. Coach Woodson has got to go. He is a terrible fit for this team. I hate to lose. Really really hate to lose but I have learned that losing is acceptable on a mature level if at the end of the day you did what you could as long as you are trying to get better and learning what doesn’t work and adjusting accordingly. These Hawks under Woodson are terrible alot of the time. They stink it up half the time. They STINK it up. Nothing worse than losing to inferior teams over and over and over. Not even competing 25% percent of the time. Confused. How many times have you heard Woodson say after a game we weren’t ready to play. They out hustled us, etc. WE NEED A NEW COACH.

By mykhalc

June 1, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

david, on point. just gotta hope SUND realizes that despite a playoff appearance this team under-achieved at 37-45!!! and i just hope he realizes that BEFORE he even thinks about ANY kinda extension for WOODSON!!! the HAWKS CANNOT afford to even start the year with WOODSON as HC, not unless they are ready to possibly write off this year as growin’ pains for a new GM!!??!! and i DO NOT believe SUND is gonna take a ‘wait and see’ approach nor can the BASG afford to have him take that approach. i believe he’ll come outta the gate knowin’ what he wants to do, how he NEEDS to go about it, and WHO he needs in place to get it done!!!

By Sautee

June 1, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Ken S

Just for the record, I wasn’t one of those calling for CP or DW. I drank the Marvin koolaid for that draft. He was at Carolina when my daughter was, and she saw him often, as his girlfriend was in the dorm where she was an RA. So I was pulling for him to be all that he was made out to be.

I was hoping BK would turn around and trade Harrington for a point.

So I HAVE no agenda regarding BK’s now obvious Sam Bowie moment.

And I don’t think I’m ignoring Woody’s negative impact. (See my post to Manny at 7:49)

“Yet, he will play a rookie PG sparingly no matter how talented they might be, or how much potential they might have, or how much they need playing time to develop, or how well they perform. They are just one mistake form being exiled to the end of the bench until circumstances force him to play them again”.

Ken, it’s not just point guards. Look how often Sheldon and Solo got yanked as rooks. But NOT Horford.

The difference: transcendent talent

And that’s my argument for CP3 overcoming Woody. Which of course is all subjective, since it didn’t happen, and we can’t prove any of it.

Hope this appears to be objective enough. Heh heh.

peace

By Sautee

June 1, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Ray

“Foes to make even the hardiest Spartans blanche…”

Is that Dubois?

And who knew the Spartans had streetcars?

heh heh.

By HB Ando

June 1, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Alight, let’s clear up some very serious misrepresentations here: I am not, and have never been, a Woody supporter, which seems to be the suggestion of a few folks, during the course of this conversation.

Never. Ever.

I view Woody’s hiring, and tenure here, in roughly the same fashion that I view Shelden Williams tragic collision with the Atlanta Hawks. Billy Knight hired a first-time head coach, who’s back ground suggested he was best suited to run a roster built for ball control and half-court defense (given his time in Detroit and development under Billy Knight). He was then given a roster that couldn’t have been more ill-fitting to his training.

Again, Woody being let go, this summer, would be the best move the organization could make. So if anyone either hasn’t remembered my previous comments to that point, or is now choosing to pretend that I’m not of that long-standing opinion, consider yourself corrected.

Ken, with the exception of Acie Law (and utterly discounting the mind-boggling tenure of Royal Ivey, who may have been the biggest surprise 2nd round draft pick since the millenium), who, exactly, are you referring to when you make the unsupportable statement:

“We’re all aware of Woodson’s negaative attitude towards rookie PG’s and his unwillingness to trust and/or play them consistenly.”

And what unarguable consensus do you count in the ranks of “We’re”?

Last time I checked, Billy scoffed at the idea of seeking a franchise point guard (to paraphrase, “I laugh when I hear people say we need a PG. I don’t necessarily agree. And I just think that I know more about basketball than everyone else”). He then dumped a top-of-the-second-round pick for the geriatric Anthony Johnson (who we could have easily gotten as a throw in on the Harrington deal, without giving up that pick), and signed a perpetually injured, career back up, in Speedy, who’s range was well established as lay up-ville.

So, as Law is the only real rookie PG that Woody has had, during his Billy-led tenure, and Law had a series of nagging injuries during his rookie campaign, AND it’s very understandable that Woody was coaching for the eighth seed, in an attempt to keep his job, how, exactly, do you come off of an opinion-as-statement-of-fact platitude?

You say, “come on, at least try to appear objective”. Man, if that’s not the world’s biggest pot calling the kettle black.

You guys crack me up. Most of you wouldn’t know true logic if you had it transplanted in your brain and tatooed on your assess, for good measure.

If you’re going to make a statement of “fact”, at least back it up with some supporting data.

By Casey

June 1, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Not one intelligent point made in the last 5 hours of posting. You are all idiots.

By Casey

June 1, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Listen up! You all need to get a life.

By Casey

June 1, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

Let me be clear, listen up! Spartans don’t have streetcars.

By SalimFan

June 1, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Ando, you are a funny guy sometimes. What school? I’ve never even HEARD of Tennessee Martin, and I’ve heard of a lot of mid-major schools. I’m Pretty sure Salim and Acie DOMINATED the best college competition in the country. Check the stats Ando.

There was a guy named Jason Conley a few years back who led the nation in scoring as a freshman. He attended Virginia Military Institute and averaged 29 ppg. It’s a small D-1 school. When VMI played big D-1 Programs Conley put up big numbers. After his success he transferred to Missouri and barely averaged 10ppg…He didn’t get drafted.

Also coming out of high school manta was a skinny kid with a Bum knee and that’s why his stock dropped. Personally I still don’t think he’s better then My fellow High school Alumni of South Gwinnett Louis Williams.

Horford is Not Nearly Explosive Enough on the Offensive end to play PF YET. He’s much more beneficial to the (TEAM) right now at the center position.

Woody would bench CP3

1) He’s a defensive Liability (yes he is, he’s admitted this and it’s been stated by numerous analysists)

2) Woody would bench him B/C he’s not a great shooter.

3) Now Imagine him as a rookie trying to deal with woody………NO

4) Paul Barely even had his patented floater back then.

By AtlFlavor

June 1, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Word is coming out HOT that Woody is DONE and may be gone by the end of the week. Hard to figure out since the Force pushing is the Owners and NOT Sund. Probably has to do with length of extension being offered. I know that would make alot of folk happy. I dont think its good myself. He has really connected with these guys and ANYBODY coming in no matter how good of a coach, would take atleast a SEASON to get that connection back with these guys. Billy K balked at a 1 year deal and seems Coach Woodson is doing the same That also confirms to me that J Smoove is History. Philly and Dallas seem to be ready to sell the farm to get him. The ASG will not get in bidding war and seem content on adding Anderson and another big. What happens to Chill?? ASG will not go over a 26 million package for him if you ask me. Welcome to the Owners Delight Mr. Sund. Mark Jackson is the name I heard to replace Woody. That would be ok but I think he turns them down. After him who knows. This is gonna be crazzzyyy!!!!

By AtlFlavor

June 1, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Word is coming out HOT that Woody is DONE and may be gone by the end of the week. Hard to figure out since the Force pushing is the Owners and NOT Sund. Probably has to do with length of extension being offered. I know that would make alot of folk happy. I dont think its good myself. He has really connected with these guys and ANYBODY coming in no matter how good of a coach, would take atleast a SEASON to get that connection back with these guys. Billy K balked at a 1 year deal and seems Coach Woodson is doing the same That also confirms to me that J Smoove is History. Philly and Dallas seem to be ready to sell the farm to get him. The ASG will not get in bidding war and seem content on adding Anderson and another big. What happens to Chill?? ASG will not go over a 26 million package for him if you ask me. Welcome to the Owners Delight Mr. Sund. Mark Jackson is the name I heard to replace Woody. That would be ok but I think he turns them down. After him who knows. This is gonna be crazzzyyy!!!!

By david

June 1, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Okay here’s the deal. You have to be honest in what you would have done with the picks. Everybody has 20/20 hindsight. I think I would have taken CP simply because of need but I didn’t hate the MW pick. Because there was a mystery about MW. The unknown and ofcourse the Atlanta papers making us think he was the next Dr.J. I like MW and I bet he will go down in Hawks history as a pretty good Hawk. But at the time (and still) we needed a point guard. That’s not hindsight. We needed a point. Any good basketball brain knows you need a good point for successful basketball. He doesn’t have to be the best player on the team but he needs to have the position figured out and produce. Okay to get to my point. We were all intrigued with MW but we all liked CP a little better but now we know we were right Now my point. If you/we could have brought the two in for separate workouts like BK $ Woodson did wouldn’t you have figured it out for sure. They couldn’t figure it out with a lengthy 3 hour individual workout. You mean to tell me they had CP here for three hours and couldn’t see that he was awesome. That’s what makes me crazy. We needed a point plus you bring in CP and MW wouldn’t you have seen what would have been a very critical peice to the puzzle. If we had gotten Paul then the next year we could take a MW type all day long. But guess what they did AGAIN. Because guess what we wouldn’t have needed a point anymore. So with that said BK is gone (thank God) and guess what else needs to go. It’s not rocket science… you put the ball in hole on one end and stop the other team from putting the ball in the hole on the other end. A GM to know talent and a coach to get the most of that talent. If Woodson stays we are not suppose to be geared for winning.

By nahjay davnpooh

June 1, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

sekou suffers from multiple personality disorder. he is actually “z” and he’s talking to himself. how sad.

By nahjay davnpooh

June 1, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

sekou also posted on this blog under the name “hb bando”

By terrell barron

June 1, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

I’ll take Mark Jackson over BALDY any day!

By nahjay davnpooh

June 1, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

i take that back, i only read “hb ando’s” first post. after reading more, he’s just a retard that uses big words because he thinks it makes him sound smart.

By Z Buster

June 1, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

SKS also posts as nahjay davnpooh. He is bored.

By Casey

June 1, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

After reading your last post, nahjay, I agree. HB Blando really needs to get a life. How many times can HB HE/SHE argue about CP3? He is beating a dead horse and it stanks worse than 3 day old tuna fish salad!!!

By #21

June 1, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooewweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

That stank!!!!

By femhawkfan

June 2, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

In response to the post by Atlfavor, if and that is a big IF, Woodson doesn’t return, I think it is highly unlikely Mark Jackson will be the replacement. I don’t think a team, even the Hawks, wants to take a chance on someone with absolutely no coaching experince.

Unless I am missing something, can someone please tell me the connection between Woodson leaving and Smoov leaving? If anything, I would think that if Woodson stays, Smoov leaves because we all know of the not so good relationship between those two guys.

Also, everyone is throwing in possible trade suggestions, but lets keep one thing in mind…those players have problem areas also. I think that the team should stick with this group of players. The Hawks will end up having big regrets if they trade certain players (particulary Smoov, Chill, and Marvin).

By Yeah Sure

June 2, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

Come on, Sekou, are you sure you’re not saying that Sund was the 2nd choice to Chris Grant because you were wrong when, last week, you pretty much guaranteed that the new GM was going to be Chris Grant? Yeah Sekou, sure.

By mykhalc

June 2, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

from HOOPSHPYE…’With Mike Woodson’s contract up, Sund figures to make a run at former Timberwolves head coach Dwane Casey, whom he had in Seattle as an assistant coach. Casey has a place waiting for him in Dallas on Rick Carlisle’s new staff if he doesn’t get a head coaching gig.’

By ray

June 2, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

Sautee, I seriously was not stick-poking you. I was saying you beat me to the punch, literally. Or should I say literarily…As for the Spartan comment, I just hate to see buddies get Thermopalyzed by such a formidable combo. Heh heh! Yes, my flattery skills are of the highest order. But it helps when one does not need to exaggerate to make one’s point.

I wonder how many times Casey can say “Listen Up” or “Get a Life” before sounding like the adolescent he seems to be. Looks like somebody’s parents forgot to update the child-block feature AGAIN…

By HB Ando

June 2, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

Yes, because everyone knows that “retards”, as this genetically inbred individual calls me, are most prolific at using big words…

And speaking of retards, here’s Casey, humping the proverbial leg of the CP issue, mere hours since I plainly stated that I’d love nothing more than to retire the discussion, if only everyone else would cease to bring up their ridiculous variations on why Paul would have been a nobody if he’d been drafted by the Hawks and coached by Woody.

I’m praying for the day I don’t come to this blog and feel compelled to respond to yet another ludicrous rationalization of how Chris Paul would have been Dan Dickau if we’d drafted him.

As far as the Paul issue goes, I say, again, that I’ll retire regurgitating the painfully obvious truth the minute all you dimwits give up your nonsensical rhetoric about how his success is solely the result of Byron Scott’s genius.

I mean, clearly, Lebron James, who came in 3rd in the MVP voting, behind Paul, owes every bit of his ability to Mike Brown, the greatest coaching mind in the history of the NBA. Certainly, Lebron, had he been drafted by the Hawks, and coached by Woodson, would still be languishing on our bench, behind Marvin and the two Josh’s, and left to grumble about his mistreatment with Salim (who would probably be an all-star if he played for anyone other than Woody).

I’m humbled to be in the presence of so many brilliant hoops’ minds.

I think it’s quite possible that Billy Knight considered the lot of you, as a collective comparison group, when he publicly stated that he simply knew more about basketball than anyone else. Your logic-less babble could make the average nine-year old come to a similar conclusion.

Please, out of a sense of charity, continue to edify me on all things basketball, in the hope that I may one day understand.

By Matt

June 2, 2008 1:37 AM | Link to this

I’m seriously gonna stay away from here until Ando stops acting an arrogant know-it-all. Again:

But idiots continue to post ridiculous positions supporting various excuses for passing on Paul. The day those brain-dead posts stop will be the day I happily refrain from addressing the Paul issue ever again.

Gee, Ando, I didn’t realize I was such an idiot for making posts supporting the completely defensible ex ante position of drafting Marvin.

Every time I read one post by you that makes you seem like an ok guy, you go and make a post where you dismiss everyone who disagrees with you as an idiot. I don’t much care what ray says anymore, much as I respect him. Until you stop acting like you have a God complex (which, despite your protestations to the contrary, you obviously do when you’re on this blog), you shouldn’t get an ounce of respect here, because you’re not showing an ounce of respect for anyone else.

By Matt

June 2, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this

Man, and I didn’t even read his 3 most recent posts. Dear god…

(And no Ando, I wasn’t calling out to you when I said “god”)

By SalimFan

June 2, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

Very Funny Ando…..whatever

I’m simply saying (and you know this) That throughout Woodson’s tenure here, He prefers Veteran guards. Lord knows he had enough of them. The only reason Acie Law got playing time before the Bibby trade was because of Tyronne Lue’s Injury. Now generally you would think that if he were picked # 2 in the draft that woody would have to play him right? Well that didn’t stop Marvin from coming off of the bench in his first two seasons.

We’ve Drafted two Highly decorated and Highly praised senior Guards from the college ranks in the last four years, and we have absolutely nothing to show for it. (They are both better shooters than Paul).

But of course Ando, WOODSON HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT RIGHT???

Even sorry Azz BORRIS DIAW looks good!!!! How do you explin that???? I really wanna know. Seriously. I can hear Stephen A. Smith now “Borris Diaw!!!” Come on.

Half of our bench is better than that guy but he’s the one with the fat contract. Go Figure…

By MannyT

June 2, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

My response got sucked into the vortex multiple times. It was too long to redo, but let me hit the main points.

Not trying to fight with anyone. I appreciate the variety of perspectives even if I don’t agree.

Bottom line is that I want Sund to find a way to not go backwards this season. I can live with a small step forward even if he has to reshape the roster due to budget. We should be able to make a significant step forward next summer with the expiring contracts of Bibby & Zaza.

Ando I can just agree to disagree on BK being middle of the pack vs awful. He’s done so this brings as much value as debating Pete Babcock, not for comparison, but evaluation of his contribution to the Hawks.

Ando, ray, Sautee I’m not saying CP3 would be bad here, just not as good under Woody as other coaches that have more success developing players. That was the main CP3 point that mykhalc made with which I agree.

Recall that Sekou was very high on AC Law as a contributor in October. However, he seemed to get lost on the Hawks bench for long stretches. I would go further to say if he and Stuckey swapped places, you would probably think AC was the better rookie, because the Pistons have done a better job developing their young talent. Additionally Salim had better rookie stats than AC. I think we agree that AC is a better player, but somehow he did not get to contribute as much as a rookie. Those same coaching talents would not have stopped CP3, but they would have slowed his development.

Even with the success Horford had during his rookie year, I would say the same about him and Woody. As for his good start in the pros, give credit to the luck that had Zaza injured for 2 weeks in October. Yes, Horford beat out the slightly experienced Solomom & Shelden. Had Zaza been healthy, I’d bet he starts the first few games and possibly more.

Some coaches just don’t have success with certain players. It might be style, chemistry, maturity or personality conflict—I don’t know. What I do know is there are guys that do much better under some coaches and not under others. Prime examples from current and past are Tracy McGrady, Ben Wallace, Chauney Billups & Dale Ellis. They were ok early in their careers, but much better after they got to their 2nd or 3rd teams.

I an NOT saying Salim or Zaza are All-Stars under a different coach. I am saying that Woody seems to have a lot of problems developing players to get better given their skill set.

In some ways we are a less successful version of the Chicago Bulls, time shifted by 3 years. I hope we can stay in the playoff mix while we undergo the administrative changes.

I would be very curious who would come here to coach if Woody is not extended. For the same issues of ownership flux, I do not think the top names are likely to get into the middle of this mess.

Long enough. late enough. Time to put the PAIN to sleep.

By SalimFan

June 2, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this

Ando Guess what.

The Hornets were eliminated from the playoffs…. Oh!!! thats right the hawks were too??? Whats the difference. Only one team can win the chip buddy. Last time I checked Marvin wasn’t a Point Guard and our offense is defenetly NOT designed for him to be the focal point. Like Childress, there are no plays ran for him. CP3 and MW both had their playoff day views in the same season. If you ask me Deron Williams is the one who’s ahead of the pack.

Idiots Ando?? Really?? I beleive it was Ray who said that only immature kids revert to name calling B/C they know they can’t win.

Is that what you’re trying to tell us Ando???

This is an open furom for people to post and vent on whatever subject they please. Name Calling is not going to force your fellow posters into submission.

If you don’t like people bringing up paul just don’t reply to posts regarding him.

I’m sure we can all post without bickering that tuns into personal name calling in an attempt to insult other people’s intelligence.

By cp

June 2, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this

As long as Woodson is gone im good. He is not a good fit for this team. Casey might not be a bad fit. He had a bad Wolves team but I think he would be a better fit than Woodson. After 4 years he still has the same predictable offense, mind boggling substitutions, and his patented arm fold with his mouth open look.

This draft is deep and I would love to get involved somehow. I think it will be a lot of solid guys in the last first and early second portion of the draft. I dont see how we could do this but I was thinking earlier. Right now Brandon Rush is projected to be a late first round pick. I think this guy could replace Chill thus enabling us to use Chill as a sign and trade and bring some pieces in here. Rush has range, plays good defense , and is a good finisher. Chill is a better ballhandler but we dont need Rush to play some spot pg as Chill did (still dont know why Woodson had him doing this it made Chill less effective). I think Rush can come in and do everything Chill does but better. The only problem would be trying to get a late first to get him. Well I guess its one of those wishfull type of things but I like Rush and I dont see why he is projected to go so low.

By ray

June 2, 2008 2:06 AM | Link to this

Ken,

Just how many rookie point guards has Woodson had to deal with since he became a head coach? I can only think of one, and he was drafted last year.

Why would a general manager concede to the wishes of a coach who has yet to establish himself as a competent coach, much less a winner? And HOW is this a FACT that some of us conveniently refuse to accept? I would like to see some hard proof of this FACT.

Here’s a bit of alternative logic for you: general managers concede things to coaches who are proven. Coaches who succeed with (and because of) their sound systems and gameplans. Coaches who win. Does Woody fit that description? Think hard on this, because there’s a trap in this argument. How? Because if this is what you believe (Billy concedes how best to build a team to a crappy, unproven coach) then that proves that he’s as crazy and inept as some of us have been saying he is…

By SalimFan

June 2, 2008 2:09 AM | Link to this

Simply put, Woody doesn’t know how to effectively utilize the talent he is given….Period

In Lamens terms HE CAN’T COACH.

By SalimFan

June 2, 2008 2:20 AM | Link to this

I Still Think Avery Jonson Is just the kind of coach this team needs.

CP, I would rather give up marvin than chills. But I agree that we need to get in on this draft and cause some blockbuster chaos. I think we have enough swingmen though.

Marvin and Solomon for Elton Brand HA!

By HB Ando

June 2, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this

Matt, the “Ando has a God complex” discussion is almost as well-worn as the Paul issue. Not unlike said issue, I’m of the preference not to rehash old news. It’s convenient that you ignore the fact that my post was in response to being called a retard. And I can only assume, from your mighty indignance, that the idea of differentiating between over-the-top, trash talking, and true meglomania is a challenging line to identify.

I did happen to be talking with Ray, on the phone, when I read your post. We both agreed that if you are a man of honor, and a man of your word, then this is the last we’ll hear from you until I undergo a much needed transformation, to a kinder, more humble, kind of guy.

As such, and given the question of just how, and when, your crusade will find its justification, our best conclusion is that you should resolve to only read the posts here, until you are fully satisfied that I’ve satisfactorily met the subjective conditions you’ve imposed upon me, regarding my ongoing delusion that I am God.

Several years ago there was a fellow named TB that found himself similarly vexed with my persona.

The truth of the matter, then, as it is now, is that there is simply no way for you to objectify whether or not I take myself, and my offerings here, nearly as seriously as you seem to think I do.

There are a handful of folks, here, regulars and the author of our forum, who know me personally. They tend to chuckle at my ability to illicit such polarized opinions about who I actually am in person, versus what I choose to portray, here.

It’s good to know, having taken some time off for the birth of my first child, that I haven’t lost my talent for using words to inflame.

I’m certain that your hiatus from the blog, in protest to my monumental ego, will be a meaningful statement of principal.

Based on the parameters you’ve defined, as condition for your return, it could be a very long time before we hear from you again.

Good luck in the interim.

By ray

June 2, 2008 2:48 AM | Link to this

MannyT, I’m not trying to fight either. I completely agree that CP3 wouldn’t have been as good under Woodson as he is under Scott. That one statement makes all the difference in the argument. Unfortunately, that one statement was absent on this blog up until just now. Which turned the argument into one of near absolutes. And of course, sarcasm and bait phrases don’t do anything but feed the fire. Like I posted earlier, this argument really comes down to what you choose to believe or not believe. Which is certainly no crime. Agreed, more PAIN than is necessary. Peace.

Matt,

What’s that, you don’t much care what I have to say? I’ve just lost my reason for blogging. Now what will I do?…Hey, I have one question. Did you mean what you said about staying away from here until Ando stops acting like an arrogant know-it-all? Are you as good as your word? Because, that would mean you won’t be back….EVER. See ya…and enjoy the Hawks Hack blog. Heh.

SalimFan, I wouldn’t presume to answer for Ando’s choice of terminology, seeing as how he’s fully capable of doing so himself. As to your latest comments, they are an example of things written by a person distracted by anger. If you objectively look into the details/facts of our playoff “run” vs. that of New Orleans, or any comparisons between Marvin and CP3, you will quickly see that this is NOT the way to support a pro-Marvin, pro-drafting Marvin, or against-drafting CP3 argument. Again, I think you spoke more out of irritation and anger than you did logic. I won’t continue to argue any points that I have in the past. It is what it is. And one futile argument after another won’t change anybody’s mind.

By SalimFan

June 2, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this

Yeah, This guy sucks….

By ray

June 2, 2008 3:11 AM | Link to this

I really have to wonder. Will Matt understand that Ando consistently goes Andro on purpose (specific purpose at that), or will he only get angrier in misunderstanding the object of such a persona? Hmmmmm.

Where’s Honest Abe? I miss my dagger-throwing ninja buddy….

SalimFan, now you’re talkin’…although Elgin Baylor and Donald Sterling would probably both laugh us out of the house…

By mykhalc

June 2, 2008 3:18 AM | Link to this

BIG RAY, the statement verbatim was missin’, yes!! but this is the same thing, which is how i ended my whole stance… CP3’s talents are great, no denyin’!! we get you on that!!! but you CANNOT remove WOODSON from the argument nor his impact!!! just does NOT fly!!!

what i realize is that ANDO has a CP3 argument timer that goes off about every 8 weeks or so!! (baby girl has thrown off his rhythm just a bit tho!) he’s been impacted by BK the same way INSPECTOR CLOUSEAU impacted his captain. a nasty twitch i say…downright nasty!!!! gotta be hard when one has had that kinda effect on another human bein’!!!

hang in there ALPHA A, SUND to the rescue!!!LOL

By SalimFan

June 2, 2008 3:29 AM | Link to this

Ray, True I was venting… I never react well to salim pot-shots lol.

One quick point though. In no way am I trying to justify BK Drafting Williams (Not Smart). I’m simply saing that I donot beleive CP3 wouldn’t have been nearly as productive here in atlanta as he is in New Orleans. I think we can all agree on that.

Although I have grown fond of Marvin’s game minus the clumbsy part, I beleive directly comparing him to paul is wrong. Not just because of the different positions they play but their roles on their respective teams are different also. I beleive that Pauls role has a greater impact on W-L’s whereas marvin’s doesn’t. We just needed a capable PG (Bibby).

With that being said I were going to deal anyone, for a Big or another SF, I would defenetly trae Marvin. Right Now he’s marketable nad he has what other teams love “untapped potential”. Also him leaving would not have a serious effect on our W-L’s (I think). We will never know unless he is actually traded.

By ray

June 2, 2008 3:34 AM | Link to this

Myk, you are too damn funny sometimes. We certainly hope we can come to believe in Sund, don’t we?

On the dreaded topic that we have been discussing, I think there have been crossed up signals. For one, Woody’s impact isn’t being ignored. It’s just that the belief is that even he couldn’t sufficiently suppress that kind of talent. As for the verbatim statement that was missing….well, it really does change the dynamics of the argument. I think when things are spoken in what seem like absolutes…this is where the arguing begins in earnest. I feel that two statements here are very true: 1)Woodson would and does have a negative impact on any young player, and 2)Any young player with enough talent will largely overcome the negative impact that Woodson has in the end. The clearest example was Horford. Despite Woodson’s ineptitude, Horford accomplished all that he did. Take a guy like CP3. Say he averages 25 ppg and 9 or 10apg under Scott. Put him under Woody, and say he averages 18ppg and 6 or 7apg. That’s still up there among the League’s top 5 point guards. Is that not still greatness? Hell, those last figures are what we’re hoping to get from Bibby if he stays…and he may not perform that well…But do you see my point? It’s not an absolute either way. Of course, now we could argue just how much CP3’s statistics would be affected by Woodson’s ineptitude, but do we really want to go there?

By ray

June 2, 2008 3:42 AM | Link to this

SalimFan, as you see in what I posted to Myk above, I agree with that sentiment. And I can’t wait for Woody to go. I have a very hard time believing that three playoff wins would cause him to become a different person as a head coach. These things never happen overnight. I could be wrong…but I think we are all on the same page about Woodson. And I think we are all right.

As for trading Marvin, that’s actually a very sensible mindset that you have. This is a business after all. Let someone else have a try at tapping that “untapped potential”. Of course, a better coach may “tap” that potential, but 1)how long would that take, 2)what if that potential is never realized, and 3)would keeping him keep us from making moves that could make us better in the long run? And remember, this also applies to Smith and Childress, although at vastly varying degrees. It is a business. If trading any one of these guys MAKES YOU BETTER IN THE LONG RUN, then that’s what you do. Of course, someone is liable to completely mistake what I’m saying and think that I’m advocating a trade of any or all three guys….(more specifically, Smith). I can feel the flames coming now…

By mykhalc

June 2, 2008 3:58 AM | Link to this

BIG RAY, to me, ANDO was the one with the absolutes. and i get ANDO bein’ ANDRO and ALPHA A, even when i’m sucked in!!LOL so my argument was with the ‘absolute’ knowin’ in which he stated his ‘usual’ 8 week rant!!!

the fact is we all know NOTHIN’ hypothetical can be absolute!! chances are…yes but absolute…no!! i know you know what i’m sayin’.

so i’ll end on this regardin’ our man EL GATO GRANDE. he did NOT have the ball in his hands either!!!LOL (and i know ya feel what i’m sayin’ just like i’m feelin’ what you’re sayin’!!!)

By nahjay davnpooh

June 2, 2008 4:02 AM | Link to this

hb ando,

you’re posts are so convoluted. get an editor. actually, just shut the hell up.

By stevo

June 2, 2008 6:31 AM | Link to this

By SalimFan

Yeah, This guy sucks….

dude, you are unbelievable. how can anybody take you seriously. do you have even the slightest comprehension of the differences between the college and pro games? do you understand at all the number of stars in college whose games simply do not translate to the nba?

it is beyond any sense of rationality for you to hold onto this crush on salim based on what he did at arizona. yes, in college he was great. in the pros, he is one dimensional and useful in a very limited way.

learn; think; comprehend. if you can.

By Ken Strickland

June 2, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

SAUTEE-I hope you don’t think my comments were directed at you specifically, because they weren’t.

RAY-he has had only 2, RIvey and ALaw, which really is my point. Woodson did nothing to develop either rookie. He started Ive, played him about five mins, then sat him for the rest of the gm. However, he’s played every vet PG he’s ever had extensive mins, regardless of their skill level, overall ability or health issues.

His attitude and treatment toward rookie PG’s is the same no matter how talented they are or how much potential they have or how much they need mins to develop. However, his attitude and treatment of vet PG is also consistent. He plays them extended mins and gives them every chance to succeed or fail, no matter what.

The initial rift between Woodson and DK could have started because of the PG issue. It’s quite possible BK reluctantly passed over Williams and Paul because of Woodson’s insistance on having a vet PG run his OFF. Shortly after passing on the two rookie PG’s, didn’t BK sign vet PG named SClaxton, arguably the top FA PG on the market that same yr? Didn’t he get TLue and AJohnson for Woodson, although neither of them panned out? Couldn’t Woodson’s attitude and treatment of ALaw be his way of getting back at BK for giving him another unwanted rookie PG? Afterall, ALaw was BK’s choice, not Woodsons. Therefore, Woodson had no reason to develop him or give him consistent mins, and he certainly wouldn’t want to give Acie the opportunity to prove him wrong about rookie PG’s.

Is all of this speculation, HECK YES AND VERY LITTLE ELSE. But the same holds true for those of you who think drafting PG’s Williams and Paul would have helped us very much. The rapid development and production of both players are the result of good coaching, good vet player support and playing in systems designed to maximize their talents and abilities. DO ANY OF YOU SERIOUSLY BELIEVE THEY COULD HAVE GOTTEN ANY OF THAT IN ATLANTA UNDER WOODSON?

By travis

June 2, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

Guys…I come to this blog to get some hella bball info regarding the Hawks, in particular, and the NBA in general.

Can we get back to bball talk, rather than who thinks they are “God” and other forms of name calling?

Someone mentioned earlier about the Hawks getting into the draft. How do you guys propose we do that?

Someone mentioned NY Knicks may want to get rid of their pick for vets. Can the Hawks get into this spot? What will we need to do to pull this off.

By Matt

June 2, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Ray,

A word of explanation before I sign off for a couple weeks (partially in protest and partially because I need to get some damned sleep). My “I don’t care what Ray has to say” comment was a reference to your attempt to talk me down from my tree a couple weeks back when I first got mad at Ando for making condescending posts. My point was that no matter what you say, I now will find it next to impossible to believe that Ando is the good, down-to-earth guy you said he is - at least when he’s on this blog. I do, however, care about your other posts - indeed, when I’m in a hurry, yours and Sekou’s often are the only ones I read. Indeed, the fact that I took your word for it last time that Ando is an ok guy is more than I would have done for anyone else on this blog! I guess it would have more appopriate to say “And this time Ray can’t talk me out of it.”

And to respond to your defense of Ando, I did read through the posts before I put up my civility police posts. Ando went nuclear and started calling other people stupid (or words to that effect) on this thread well before Najeh launched the first name-calling salvo against him. Unless you count “most of you wouldn’t know true logic if you had it transplanted in your brain and tatooed on your assess” as polite banter. If this were a schoolyard fight, Ando would not be able to defend himself by saying “but they started it.”

And with that, I shall retire for awhile. I don’t honestly expect to see the hoped-for improvements in a couple weeks, but at least by then I’ll be in a better frame of mind to deal with them.

Cheers, y’all.

By clint

June 2, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

I do hope that its true that Woody is gone by the end of the week, but I don’t think Dwayne Casey has done anything that would merrit a head coaching job over some the other veteran head coaches available. We need someone who will make these guys compete on every play. Our young guys take too many plays off during the game, and you can’t do that and win consistanly in this league.

Woody will never play ACLaw consistanly either. Avery Johnson would be great for this team, just don’t know if the ASG will pay enough to get him.

If Casey does hire somebody, We need to resign the Joshes and decide if we want to play Al at the 4 or 5 and move marvin if they want Al to play the 4 and smoove play the 3. I just wonder about floor balance if jsmoove plays the 3 with his bad jumpshooting.

Please move marvin before the joshes.

By clint

June 2, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

I do hope that its true that Woody is gone by the end of the week, but I don’t think Dwayne Casey has done anything that would merrit a head coaching job over some the other veteran head coaches available. We need someone who will make these guys compete on every play. Our young guys take too many plays off during the game, and you can’t do that and win consistanly in this league.

Woody will never play ACLaw consistanly either. Avery Johnson would be great for this team, just don’t know if the ASG will pay enough to get him.

If Sund does hire somebody, We need to resign the Joshes and decide if we want to play Al at the 4 or 5 and move marvin if they want Al to play the 4 and smoove play the 3. I just wonder about floor balance if jsmoove plays the 3 with his bad jumpshooting.

Please move marvin before the joshes.

By Matt

June 2, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Oh, one more totally unrelated, PSA-style thing since I saw Donald Sterling’s inglorious name mentioned above. I’m a legal ethics enthusiast (I’m actually on the ethics journal at my school) and this article caught my eye as a possible disbarrable offense by the good Mr. Sterling…or if nothing else, it makes him the biggest douchebag in the recent history of sports.

Here’s the link

Cheers, y’all.

By Sautee

June 2, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Ray

Far be it from me to dis your flattery skills. I did take it wrong, but now I’m more flattered than ever. Or is that fatter than ever? Both, probably.

By the way, I’ll have to say that I did state (7:49) that Woodson would likely have a negative impact. I even used an absolute in saying I “absolutely” wanted Woodson gone. heh heh.

You made a perfect point that for me crystallizes the argument. Without Woody CP# is 25ppg 10 apg. With Woody likely 18ppg 7 apg. And that is what we hope for from Bibby! (And yes, for the rest of you, that means he wouldn’t have been 2nd in the MVP vote).

Although I’d argue that with the finishers on this team, that the assist avg. would be higher, even with Woody snatching away the reins.

Manny, myk

I think it’s now obvious that we all feel the same about Woodson, and that we all fall on a different place on the continuum of Paul’s talent and his ability to overcome bad coaching. But we’re all on the same line, just in differing positions.

Nothing but respect for you two.

By Sautee

June 2, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

And there are some on this blog who wouldn’t know a T. Wms. reference if it smacked them in the head.

And that’s OK too.

By MsDee

June 2, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

I say let’s trade Marvin,Salim,& ZaZa for Ben Gordon to bk-up Joe Johnson..get D.Diop for bk-up center for David Anderson..and get a bk-up pf for Al Horford..yo lineup could look like this: Bibby/Law(pg), JJ/Gordon(sg),JSmoove/JChills(sf),A Horford/bk-up(pf), D. Anderson/D Diop(c)..and of course we keep M West & J Richerson..what yall thk??

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 2, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Matt, from a guy who refuses to sell housing space to minorities until compelled by a court, such douchebaggery is predictable.

By Casey

June 2, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Listen up! Sautee quit kissing up to Andro fueled Ando and be your own man! You too, Ray. Bunch of idiots.

By Sautee

June 2, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

ding!

By HB Ando

June 2, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

Matt, you might as well have chained yourself, 100-feet up, to the top of an old-forest hardwood, standing squarely in the path of a logging firm, with court-confirmed rights to take it down. You can climb down on your own, or ride the arc as the refrain “timber” echoes the woods.

Either way, you’ll be disappointed in the results of your ineffectual attempt to affect change.

But I admire your sense of principal and youthful idealism.

Before you embark upon your law career (if I understand your references to your ongiong academic efforts) you’ll do well to learn to differentiate the person from their agendized behavior.

I can promise you, and I know that guys like Ray, Sekou, doc, Jhan and others, who know me in person, watch games at Philips together, and eat pretzels and beer, while knocking back beer, that I have nothing close to a “God” complex.

At various times, I simply choose to use words to encourage fairly predictable outrage. Folks like Astro Joe have chosen, over time, to refuse to be baited.

Take this self-imposed hiatus, and come back with some thicker skin.

It’s just a basketball blog, after all. Not a debate of human or civil rights, or an exchange of positions on America’s presence in Iraq.

Relax……

By Sautee

June 2, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

By the way Casey, I’m still waiting on that link to prove your claim that capitalization of the first letter of a word in the midle of a sentence is a proper way to add emphasis. No English teacher I’ve asked (3 that teach college level) has backed you up. But I’ll keep an open mind until you’ve shown me the light.

What I did find when I looked it up was that the proper ways to add emphasis in a sentence are:

1. underlining the word
2. using italics
3. use all caps for that one word

That’s all I’ve been able to find, so please enlighten me and send a link showing the usage you claim to be correct.

I’ll be glad to be wrong, just show me.

And you STILL need to lighten up!

Or you could do like drmaryb and just scroll on past if you see my name or Ray’s.

By Ramon

June 2, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

MsDee I would love to see a line up like that. The only problems are Salim is a free agent, and they would need to work out a deal for Gordon’s contract.

By Casey

June 2, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Sautee, everytime I type your name, I feel a little dumber. Listen up, go get your own education. I’m tired of wasting my time trying to teach you, you idiot.

By Sautee

June 2, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Casey

So does that mean you can’t prove your claim?

You accused me of trying to correct you when I didn’t know what I was talking about.

Just back it up, man.

As far as getting my own education, I told you I looked it up AND asked English teachers that I knew. I guess you didn’t like what I found.

And when have you tried teaching me anything?

You shouldn’t make accusatory, specious claims if you aren’t willing to back them up.

All we have gotten from you is:

Trying to correct the entire blog for grammatical errors (when you had made your own, though you refuse to admit it), insults and name calling.

Thanks for your contributions.

peace

By MannyT

June 2, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Ken while you didn’t get dragged directly into the vortex, right on for the 9:04 entry last night. I also enjoyed the 9:17 this morning, even if it is speculation.

A love fest of stubbornness and some folks that are going to take their blog toys and go home/hold their breath, etc. I was not aware of the high stakes world of blogging. I guess I’ll have my agent negotiate a doubling of my hoops blogging salary for next season. If there is a hard salary cap in this biz, I’ll have to sign with Scott Boras ;-)

Ando et al I don’t run off so easily. Now ketchup on my pretzel or cheap beer on my popcorn at halftime…then it’s on ;-)

Sautee isn’t that the cartoon guy in the tuxedo with a friend named Chumley ;-)

This is why we needed a playoff presence. At least we got 2 weeks of additional real hoops to over analyze. Imagine how looney this blog been will be by October w/o draft picks and a questionable presence in summer league.

Slow summer, waiting for something to happen = WAF.

By Harry Hawk

June 2, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

As a veteran of various blogs (I’m “Chop Chop” on DOB’s fine MIB/Braves blog. I’ve recently seen you over there a few times, Ray…), I can say that there are people just like each of us on almost every blog. Ando is just the type of guy who generally likes to do the “high-minded, holier than thou” gimmick. It has nothing to do with who he actually is (and I don’t know him at all other than his posts). I like to pull that same gimmick with my friends, family and, yes, even my girlfriend, from time to time, but they usually know I’m joking. If they don’t know immediately, they figure it out over the next minute or two as I add increasing amounts of moisture to the dryness of my wit.

Very few bloggers are completely themselves on blogs. It is much more common for bloggers to exaggerate some part of their character in order to try to make salient points. Other bloggers just like to verbally assault people because they can. In short, it’s difficult to judge a man by the content of his blog. He may very well be BSing you in order to get a reaction. One would do well not to step into the b******.

By NBA = Not Buying Any of it

June 2, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Anybody who doesn’t think the NBA fixed those three games (in Atlanta against the Celtics) probably also believes pro wrestling is real. Think about it people. It was good for the NBA, good for ABC/ESPN, and good for the Hawks. Follow the money…

By NBA = Not Buying Any of it

June 2, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Anybody who doesn’t think the NBA fixed those three games (in Atlanta against the Celtics) probably also believes pro wrestling is real. Think about it people. It was good for the NBA, good for ABC/ESPN, and good for the Hawks. Follow the money…

By Lil E

June 2, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Ha! I’m me. Man it’s been a long time since I’ve blogged. Anyways, rumor has it that Detroit is trying to move Rasheed Wallace, what do you guys think about adding Rasheed Wallace to our frontcourt ? Especially since you can see him as a David Anderson with better defense/rebounding.

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 2, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

“Ando went nuclear and started calling other people stupid (or words to that effect) on this thread well before Najeh launched the first name-calling salvo against him.”

I ain’t no grammar nazi, but in this case, spelling matters. Please don’t confuse my racist crackhead clown-azz punk stalker with the real me. I would never start a war of words with Ando, because I am not interested in patronizing thesaurus.com for hours at a time.

By Casey

June 2, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Sautee, you are welcome. Now, listen up! Stop begging me to do your work. If you fail to find the wisdom you seek, keep on trying. Isn’t it about time you say something Hawks related? Get a clue.

By Sautee

June 2, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Casey

Here, for your edification, is what we have from you since Sekou posted this particular blog:

By Casey

June 1, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Not one intelligent point made in the last 5 hours of posting. You are all idiots.

By Casey

June 1, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Listen up! You all need to get a life.

By Casey

June 1, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

Let me be clear, listen up! Spartans don’t have streetcars.

By Casey

June 1, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

After reading your last post, nahjay, I agree. HB Blando really needs to get a life. How many times can HB HE/SHE argue about CP3? He is beating a dead horse and it stanks worse than 3 day old tuna fish salad!!! By Casey

June 2, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Listen up! Sautee quit kissing up to Andro fueled Ando and be your own man! You too, Ray. Bunch of idiots. By Casey

June 2, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Sautee, everytime I type your name, I feel a little dumber. Listen up, go get your own education. I’m tired of wasting my time trying to teach you, you idiot. By Casey

June 2, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Sautee, you are welcome. Now, listen up! Stop begging me to do your work. If you fail to find the wisdom you seek, keep on trying. Isn’t it about time you say something Hawks related? Get a clue.

Seven posts. All name calling and nonsense. Do you realize how you sound?

And you you suggest that I say something Hawks related (I did yesterday at 2:55, 5:31, 5:58, 6:41, 7:49, 9:42 and again this morning at 9:56) Ironically enough that’s also seven posts - all with Hawks content

It’s Oh so obvious that you’ve painted yourself into a corner and you’ll say anything to save face.

Except to admit you were wrong.

This will be my final response to this nuttiness. (And the entire blog says Hooray! Finally!).

I hope you can find some peace in your troubled mind. If you live just to tear others down it’ll be a lonely existence.

By david

June 2, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Enough of the BS even though it’s kind of funny. Back to the Hawks. I want a new coach so bad I can’t stand it. I want to have a chance. Right now we are dead in the water with a huge ray of hope. Keeping Woodson is such a mistake. QUESTION: How can a guy that is 57 years old with another chance as a GM in a new city with a new team? Most likely his last GM job. How could he possibly keep a coach with a 100 win over 200 losses? How can that possibly happen? How can he think and do his due diligence and homework and make a decision to keep this guy? Guess what when teams suck half the time and their record is horrible year after year guess who gets fired. The coach. THE COACH.

By Casey

June 2, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Sautee, LOL. You are quite the talented spin control guy. Go Hawks. Ha!

By travis

June 2, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

lil E i like the idea of ‘Sheed coming back to atl, but don’t you think that he and woody would have run ins?

By Casey

June 2, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Sheed ain’t coming back to Atl. What could Hawks offer that Detroit would accept? Maybe Childress, Marvin, and Sautee? Don’t think Detroit would listen up!

By SalimFan

June 2, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Stevo, that post was rhetorical. And look at his NBA stats and COMPREHEND that his minutes directly effect his production.

Based on the commonality of your post(I’ve read statements like that before) I can see that you really don’t give a damn about it enough to LOOK IT UP anyway so stop wasting my time and go bother someone else.

By Ramon

June 2, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

I would love to see Sund bring a Danny Fortson type player for the bench. Or at least bring in some type of ‘Goon’ for the roster. I think offering a good one year salary may would convince Mourning to come up I-75 and play for a season. Even if he wasn’t able to play the entire season, I think his impact and mentoring for Horford would be wonderful.

By Ken Strickland

June 2, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

DAVID-firing Woodson will be difficult for Sund to do. The SAASG previously rejected 3 BK attempts to fire him, and the team was losing and out of the playoff picture at the time. With the teams late season and playoff success, and Gearon being a Woodson supporter, Sund’s hands may be tied. You have to be hurting awfully, awfully bad to want him fired more than I do.

I’ve been paying close attention to comments and analysis by Mark Jackson. I’ve reached the conclusion he wants to become a HC, and I believe he would be a good one for the Hawks. I also believe assistant coach LDrew would also be a good choice, and a safe one since he and the players are familiar with each other. He also has 1st hand knowledge of the teams shortcomings and attributes, and he and Sund have history together.

For me, going into the next season with Woodson as our HC would make it difficult to get excited. Fire Woodson, and I’ll be like Lionel Richie, DANCING ON THE CEILING!!!!!

By SalimFan

June 2, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

Ken,(9:17am post) You took everything I would have said, and said it ten times better. BTW When does woody’s contract run out?? If Sund wants to go in a different direction the woody might just get the walking papers now. IF we plan on getting into the draft then the coaches input (whoever it may be) is key when it comes to selecting a prospect.

Ramon, That is exactly what I was thinking. But Fortson was like the T.O/Chad Johnson/Pac Man Jones of the NBA. Always getting in trouble for running his mouth…. I would still give him a chance though. I LOVED his game in Seattle.

David, Exactly you can’t and you shouldn’t. It wouldn’t mave any sense and it would just further tick off Hawks fans. Woodson shouldn’t be allowed within 1,000 fet of phillips arena, Just like the scalpers (At least the scalpers are beneficial to me sometimes).

Clint, I’m with you on the Averery johnson subject. AJ ALL DAY!!!!

Travis, Yes I agree more B-Ball talk less bickering. I’m not one to get into the mix usually, but they know the button lol, it’s in tha name. I’ll get back to you when I come up with a sensible plan for getting the Hawks into the 08’ draft mix.

By ray

June 2, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

Matt, it’s okay, I was using bland (but light-hearted humor) to respond. I guess you really are signing off. Good luck with school (and sleep). A quick word on Ando. Over three years ago when I came to this blog, he and I used to have some truly epic battles here. Hell, we even kept it up for nearly two weeks, just the two of us on an old blog (everybody had moved on to the new blogs), just because I was convinced that he was a total a-hole and neither of us gave an inch. I got to know the dude away from the computer screen. Everything changed. We’re friends. We talk about everything (and no, this blog isn’t even the primary discussion point most of the time). I can’t make you believe something that I know, but don’t have susbstantial, physical evidence to support (not that I can give to you anyway). But it’s all good. Not expecting a response due to your hiatus, but I put this here in case you’re still reading. See ya ‘round.

By Ramon

June 2, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

Ken, I think it wouldn’t be too hard for Sund to fire Woody. I think the reason ASG may didn’t trust BK to replace Woody with a candidate worthy of the contract. I think Sund will have that trust from the start. Well, I hope he will.

By ray

June 2, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Najeh, I knew it wasn’t you.

Ken, my point is that Woodson has yet to encounter a rookie pg with that much talent. Acie Law, as good as he was in college, was a “lead guard” who assumed the duties of both guard slots as his team needed him to. He is not the transcendent talent that Paul is. Either way, I’m so tired of hashing this, that I’m just done. I don’t even care what anybody thinks about this anymore. Here’s my one “absolute” fact: we’re still not stable and secure for the future (as in the next 5-10 years)at the pg position. And I’m tired of debating “why”. I don’t care anymore what people think of Paul or how he would’ve done here. He’ll continue to be great (barring serious injury or death). We’ll continue to pay for the mistakes made within this organization (and I’m not talking about what those were/are). All I’m interested in is how/when we fix this problem.

By ray

June 2, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Casey, Spin? I’d call that “cut and paste”, not “spin.” And it even appears to be in chronological order…

Sautee, the “modus operandi” is the same as it was last time (you probably weren’t around for our first encounter). Your efforts, though noble, admirable, and charitable…are largely wasted on a subject who lacks even the most basic form of cognitive ability necessary to comprehend the concepts you have so painstakingly presented. And yes, I am using as many “big” words as possible so that I too, can be classified as a retard. Heh, heh….

By ray

June 2, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Where’s Clyde? Surely he can market new t-shirts, even if it’s for a short time.

“Fire Woody” still has a nice ring to it…

By HB Ando

June 2, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Najeh, it was so obviously NOT you, that I didn’t even bother to address it. There’s only one “poop” on this blog, though there are quite a few steaming piles…….

As far as letting Ando/Andro get under your skin (and you know I’m there, if you just bristled at the third-person self reference), Mr. Harry Hawk lays hammer to nail head with dead-on accuracy.

Do the Matt’s of this world really believe that, say, Stephen A. Smith rants and raves like a single-minded madman, 24/7? Of course not.

This blog is a stage, with no limits on the range of potentially fictional characters one can create. Doc has always referred to this type of forum as the “liar’s table”, evolved from generations past. Virtually no one here, save Sekou, and the occassional (and usually poorly veiled) confederate, from within the Hawks’ organization, seeking to spin or defend, has any legitimate access to the inner workings of the team.

We spout subjectivity, and do our best to sell opinion as fact.

And, as it has been since the first off-season this blog, and it’s certifiable, year ‘round regulars, summers invariably lead to slap fights and boredom-driven battles, with very little activity to comment on.

If I generate a sense of indignance, deep inside, then you probably need to quit taking me, and, more likely, yourself, so dang seriously.

We’re not changing the world here. We’re just talkin’ hoops……

To paraphrase Tom Hanks: “there’s no crying in blogdom”…….

By Sautee

June 2, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Ray

Yeah, I was much nicer to him than I was treated, but sadly what I feel most is pity.

It must really suck to be that unhappy.

Or maybe that’s “spin” too.

By A Thinking Fan

June 2, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

That’s right HB - Tell em…

By terrell barron

June 2, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

How about Escobar? And oh yeah, fire Woody, hire Mark Jackson.

By terrell barron

June 2, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

Hey Rey, Milwaukee also passed on him, so BK was’nt the only one. And we all know how Woody hates young pg’s, so why would a GM draft a guy, if his coach does’nt want him? The GM and coach has to be on the same page man. I gotta give BK some credit. He realized he made a mistake with Sheldon and got rid of his sorry azz. He also got Woody his veteran pg’s that he WANTED in Speedy, AJ, and now Bibby. He also realized that Woody was’nt the right coach for this team, and tried to axe his azz too. So you mean to tell me that if you were the GM you woulda drafted Paul regardless of what the coach wanted? And remember, at the time BK thought Woody was his guy. I can just see it now. As soon as ya boy Paul made a mistake, he would have been grounded. You do realize that, dont you? BK only drafted Acie because he thought he could get rid of the Woodpecker. And look what happens, the BASG would’nt let him can Woody, and Acie, going into his 2nd season, is STILL A ROOKIE. Pathetic! Paul better thank God we did’nt take him!

By Casey

June 3, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

Ray, what’s for dinner, country fried steak, potatoes, and Sauteed backside kissing?

Listen up I don’t know why you two insist on attacking me, when we could be debating about CP3. OOPS, don’t want to tread on Ando Almighty’s territory! He might try to make me the next Matt, I mean quitter.

You two should move to San Fran. It is now legal for you guys to marry in CALI. Go hawks go.

By Casey

June 3, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this

All I’m trying to do is talk basketball, and this group of punks tries to punk me. Well..I’m not Matt! Slap me, and I’ll strike back, not run like a sissy. ding! back atcha!

By Casey

June 3, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this

Ray, Sautee, keep on with that spin. You two grammatically challenged individuals outta be talkin bout tha Hawks! Get on point, punks.

By HB Ando

June 3, 2008 2:22 AM | Link to this

Casey, if Ray slapped you it would detach your inconsequential head. And what’s really funny is you’re clueless enough to think I’m kidding.

One of the worst things about the off-season is the inevitable procession of irrelevant wanna-be’s.

Casey, make sure you spell it out for us when you “strike back”. Because from what I’ve seen, I don’t think any of us will be able to tell the difference.

By ray

June 3, 2008 2:40 AM | Link to this

Sautee, save your pity. Chances are, you’re not dealing with an adult anyway. The repeated cliched phrases, the puerile name-calling, and finally the silly sexual referrences all point to one thing, as far as I’m concerned.

Witness the weak and hypocritical attempt at martyring one’s self. “I’m just trying to talk basketball, but they want to keep attacking me.” How sordid and sychophantic can a person get? Here’s the real kicker: nobody is trying to talk basketball with this person. It was the same way last time. Why? Because the guy (or girl, you never know) never has anything to say that is worth responding to on the subject of basketball. It’s the same thing every time: come onto the blog, attempt to make fun of or attack a few people, get ignored, then try parroting somebody else’s comments…only to be ignored again. Finally, the loser just leaves.

What’s funny is that often times, such a person is exceedingly guilty of the same things they accuse other people of (i.e. sexual confusion, grammar mistakes, etc). It’s kind of like the guy who walks into a room full of people and farts…then loudly proclaims that somebody farted, and it wasn’t him.

Ah yes, I see people like this all the time. They usually end up doing something stupid, in which case I arrest them (or one of my officers does), and take them to the ol’ Crossbar Motel…where sadly enough, they will learn the true definition of “punk” before their release, and possibly before the night is out…..

By ray

June 3, 2008 2:50 AM | Link to this

Ando, he’ll eventually do what he did last time…Nevermind the fact that we were talking basketball before he came along.

If the former Hawks Hack has a much younger sibling, then we now know who it is…

By Casey

June 3, 2008 3:02 AM | Link to this

Ray, I thought you smelled like yesterday’s bacon. Ando, I wish Ray would slap me. It’d just be another case of police brutality. Always beatin up an innocent man. You all disgust me. Ray, any true cop would not resort to gang like tactics, such as picking on poor little old Casey. Unless you’re APD, then I AND my grandmother better watch out!! Y’all might blast us up for nothing. How bout our Hawks?

By ray

June 3, 2008 3:32 AM | Link to this

LOL! My stomach hurts…funniest thing I’ve seen in a while. I should’ve figured it was some guy living out of his grandmother’s house (probably in the basement). The only question is age: 17 or 43? LOL!!!

Oh, this is too good.

Guys, I think I feel a “Today’s News” coming. And you’ll never guess what the feature story is going to be…LOL. Oh man, I haven’t laughed this much since MannyT was in a good mood…or Najeh was on one of his kicks…

By SalimFan

June 3, 2008 3:34 AM | Link to this

I WAS laughing, thinking casey’s post was getting good….then he tried to wuss out of the situation by changing the subject back to the Hawks AGAIN. This is just sad and weird.

By SalimFan

June 3, 2008 3:47 AM | Link to this

I hereby Dub thee Casey “King Of The Instigators”….. it’s gotta nice ring to it. Sekou should give you a trophy man sheesh, lol.

By ray

June 3, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this

Today In The News

Casey strikes back! Er…NOT. Blog Crimes Unit officers were tipped off by an anonymous source in referrence to a new troll in the Atlanta area. A residential troll at that. Sources say that the troll, named CASEY by those who have seen it, has emerged from an old style storm door/trap door that sits beside an elderly lady’s home.

Speculation is that the troll has been inhabiting her basement for a very long time, although it has probably been close to a year since the first sightings. The troll is usually seen right around dusk, but is sometimes seen at night. According to witnesses, CASEY emerges from his den, then utters one of two phrases that sound like “Listen Up” or “Get a Life” , while gesticulating wildly. Immediately afterwards, the troll dives back into it’s lair before anyone can get close, closing the door behind it.

Experts are having a hard time gauging the troll’s age, although it’s behaviors would suggest that it is adolescent. However, under-developed brain cells have caused similar behavior patterns in older trolls. Experts also say that the troll probably thinks the elderly woman is it’s grandmother. Strange…

In other news, Atlanta resident Clyde was seen printing up new t-shirts at his shop. They read “Fire Ricky and Woody”. “Just in case,” said Clyde. “If this guy keeps Woodson around, I’ll need to be the first guy who thought of this slogan. Trust me, this guy is a GM killer.” Right on Clyde, right on.

Restraining Order served at the Orlando pre-draft camp. Sources say that a strange incident occurred while NBA hopefuls were attempting to run some drills. Apparently, each time one of the young players tried to make a play, a bald black guy came rushing onto the court screaming like a banshee and telling the player to “go sit on the bench!” This incident was repeated several times before security officers were called and the man was removed from the sideline. After that, the man was seen pacing behind the security lines with his arms folded tightly to his chest. Apparently, the man had a security pass for the combine. A security pass that said Atlanta Hawks coaching staff…

Pre-draft co-chairman Rick Sund looked rather flustered and refused to answer any questions when reporters inquired about the identity of the man. Although, our reporters heard him mutter something under his breath along the lines of “I’m not waiting until June 30th to resolve this problem…”

And that’s all for now…

By ray

June 3, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

Was looking around in DraftExpress.com and decided to take a look at some of the NBA team scouting reports. Needless to say, I had to see what they said about our Hawks players. Some very interesting things said about Marvin, Josh , and Joe.

The first thing they said about Joe: “A versatile small forward…” and later, “One of the most talented swingmen…” Uh-huh. Yep. ‘Nuff said. And yes, these are mostly current assessments. The not-so-current ones are Horford, Law, West, etc.

Interesting reading if you’re sick of the blog and looking for something else to look at…

By ILL-Logical

June 3, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

After careful and thoughtful deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that a sign and trade deal between the Dallas Mavericks and the Atlanta Hawks that sent Josh Smth and the expiring contract of Calvin Claxton to Dallas for Josh Howard and Eric Dampier would help both teams and would be a much better situation for both Joshes.

First, I am a huge Josh Smith fan BUT, in order for him to avoid becoming the Andruw Jones of basketball-talented physically but challenged emotionally- he needs to go to a team that 1) has veteran leadership and coaching that will facilitate his growth and development and 2)have a real chance to win a championship while he is in his prime.

I believe that the counsel of players like Jason-the Koach Killer-Kidd and Jerry Stackhouse as far as on the court savvy would help Josh Smith reach his full potential much better/sooner than here in Atlanta. And Kidd’s passing would add all -star stats to Josh’s resume as well.

As far as Josh Howard in the ATL, as long as he is lighting up the scoreboard(was that a poor choice of wording), his experience as an all-star should compliment the current Hawk roster. And with Damp,you have some muscle to assist Al and Solo on the front line. Could be a 50 win team, with the right coach.

In short, Dallas gets the physical talent (they are trying to bring Djop back) to get over the top in the West and Atlanta gets a high(oops) scoring 3 who also plays good on ball defense as well as a veteran big-maybe JJ will stop whining about young guys running wild and shoulder some responsibility for the teams succeess- and who knows what might happen in the East?

IJS

By chuckw/deadjournalist

June 3, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

ray -

funny you say that about draftexpress as i was doing something similar over the weekend.

i also went to ndadraft.net to see who which current or former player they used to compare the the current draft class.

the one that made me laugh was kevin love. who was he compared with?

wes unseld. wes unseld?

i’m sure most of their readers don’t remember him as the bullets’ gm, much less the hall-of-fame forward. while it might be a good fit, it was kind of random.

here are the current/former hawks picks comparisons since ‘03:

josh smith = vince carter (with heart)

josh childress = reggie miller

boris diaw = bruce bowen

marvin williams = NA

salim stoudamire = nick van exel

sheldon williams = emeka okafor

solomon jones = carlos rodgers

al horford = horace grant/calos boozer

acie law = chauncey billups

donta smith = NA

travis hansen = NA

royal ivey = NA

speaking of royal; i wouldn’t mind seeing him back in a hawks uniform. he’s going to be a solid back-up point for a number of years. reminds me a little of morlon wiley, with better defense.

By Mike is back

June 3, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Sekou please can we get another blog aleady.

By SalimFan

June 3, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

Ray, Too Funneh man. What a way to start my day. That was better than a shot of Expresso in the morning (Nothing beats OJ though). You proved woody’s really an alien robot program to bench Non-veterans over and over again. Glad to know Clyde is ready for the Fall-out lol.

ILL-Logical, Why don’t we just sign Diop and call it a day. Dampier is over 30 I beleive…..and not that great defensively. I personally like diop better. He’s not as great offensively BUT his defense is really solid.

As Far as DraftExpress goes remeber I had looked at that a couple of weeks ago and I was p** B/C coming out of college they called Salim Un-Athletic and Pudgy…. B******* (Nobody take the bait..lol)

I like the Nick Van Excel Comparison though. He’s defenetly not there yet.

By SalimFan

June 3, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Stupid censors…..it wasn’t even that bad.

P I S S E D

and

B A S T A R D S

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

ray I’m often in a good mood. Just not funny as often as you…and more convinced that the unidentified man would require most rookies to play in NBDL for 2 years before coming to NBA. Nice news run.

Assuming Woody stays, you can book this headline for future use.

Woody ignites Sund. Both go down in flames

chuckw that Dallas trade will literally go up in…ah…smoke in the Hawks face. They would end up with an uninspired but quite content small forward and a big man that BK refused to overpay that won’t stand up when his star player gets smacked. I’d rather have Hawk for a Game on his bad days.

Here’s the trade I would take—Flip for Woody. ESPN First Take is saying Flip is out. While I’m sure he has issues, I prefer ex-Timerwolves coach Saunders to Casey.

On those Draft Express comparisons, Chills has 2 things in common with Reggie Miller—both are from California and skinny, black guys. Miller probably shoots better with his left hand from the outside.

Flip my WAF!

By kwooden1

June 3, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Looks like the AP and ESPN are reporting that Flip Saunders might be available very soon. He’s a definite upgrade and fits what everyone is saying about what Sund likes in a coach!

GO HAWKS!

By kwooden1

June 3, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

The AP and ESPN are reporting that Flip Saunders might be available very soon! He’s definitely an upgrade and fits what Sund likes in a coach. (according to what I’ve heard)

GO HAWKS!!

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

SalimFan be careful if you take that OJ with a knife…it can be a killer ;-)

ILL-LOGICAL forgive me for missing it…what’s IJS?

I hope the powers that be target Flip as long as they offer more than a rack of basketballs for him.

There is hope in the CRAP today!

By terrell barron

June 3, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Illogical, Josh Smith plays PF, and Josh Howard plays SF. If we want Howard, we should trade Marvin, not Josh. Unless you want to move Horford to PF, which I think would be a big mistake. If Mcdeyss and Rasheed can play center, so can Big Al.

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

I think the Wes Unseld video from NBA Vault was censored out, but the link between Kevin Love and Wes Unseld is probably body type and the powerful outlet pass.

I know the draft height and wingspan info from Orlando was posted in text the other day. Here is a link.

The stats on Brook Lopez made me wonder about Hibbert’s actual measurements.

Things that make you go hmmm?

Quite random CRAP for a town w/o draft picks.

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

terrell if the big check grabber (Dampier) comes in that deal, he plays center so you need Al to be the PF.

By terrell barron

June 3, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

I’ve been calling for Mark Jackson, but Flip would be o.k. Our team would look a whole lot better with either one of those guys on the sideline. I keep thinking about all the potential we have, and Woody’s face keeps appearing in my thoughts. We’ve gotta get rid of this clown. He’s holding us back. And the sad thing is, he does’nt even know it. WHAT A SHAME!!!

By Samuel

June 3, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Flip is a goner. I predicted he would be by the All Star break this year. I was a little off.

I just don’t care for this guy. The players don’t seem to respect him at all. I’d just as soon keep Woody.

Can we have a do over with Rasheed. He would be the answer to a lot of our problems in the middle. I’m sure i’ll get the usual post about his hot temper from many but he would instantly make us: Bad Boys South.

The Pistons need to get younger.

Give em Speedy’s contract,Marvin and Salim.

Sheed Horford Smith JJ Bibby

That line up should be good for 50 wins.

By mykhalc

June 3, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

this is how easy it’s done…

President of basketball operations Joe Dumars said it’s “time for a new voice to lead our team.”

SUND, you don’t have to use the same words but somethin’ close is recommended!!!

By terrell barron

June 3, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Dampier would backup Big Al at center if we made that deal. How horrible would we be on offense with Horford, Dampier, and Marvin on the court together? BORING!!!!

By mykhalc

June 3, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Samuel, no doubt that’d be a smokin’ lineup. but for ‘some’ reason SHEED did not come to play in the BOS series!!! not sure why. i wonder where his motivation is these days??? and if he can’t get up for playin’ BOS for the conf championship, how motivated would he be in ATL??? not knockin’ your trade idea at all bro. i’m just sayin’…

By terrell barron

June 3, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

We drafted Horford to play center. He could become an ELITE pf in time, but he needs to work on his post moves, footwork, etc… I say leave him at center for now. The guy was 1st team ALL ROOKIE at the center position. Why should we make him change positions? Maybe in a couple of years, but not now. All we need is a TRUE SCORER at the 3 and a new coach and we’ll be fine. Or we can move JJ to the 3 and add a #2, like Ellis or Gordon. Howard for Marvin, I can deal with. But Howard and Damp for Smith. NOT!! How about Marvin, Salim, and Zaza for Gordon and the Bulls 2nd rdr? Horford-Smith-JJ-Gordon-Bibby. With Flip Saunders or Mark Jackson on the sidelines. GET ME MY SEASON TICKETS! Btw, we could use that 2nd rdr on a backup center. Just a thought. lol!!!

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

As much as my handle could be SheedFan, I’m not sure he would work well here now. He has one year left on the contract, so he might walk. Thus you cannot trade a lot for him unless you know you can resign him. The catch is he’ll be 34 before the season starts.

How long and how much for the wild and crazy talent once he’s in his mid 30s?

If he is the last piece, you make the run. If you need multiple pieces, he won’t want to be here, and you probably don’t want him here.

Good CRAP at 30 can be PAIN at 35!

By SB

June 3, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Trading Josh Smith makes no sense what so ever. He’s the second best player on your team, the best athlelet on your team and has the most upside on your team. Did I mention he’s 22. Go ahead and pay Smith and get A coach he can respect. I would love to see Smith moved to the three if we could get a legit big for Marvin. But I wouldn’t trade him for scraps either. And yeah I called Josh Howard scraps, what dose he do outside of score. I wouldn’t mind bringing in Flip, not in love with it. He did get C.Billups turned in the right direction in Minn. I still have Avery Johnson and Mark Jackson ahead of him on my wish list.

By Astro Joe

June 3, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Joe Dumars is putting on the press conference that should be the standard for every front office exec. And one that certainly most Hakws fans should hear. Among other thiongs, he said “you can’t win with 10 young guys. You can make the playoffs, but you can’t win big without a mix of vets”. And while he has fired his coach, this press conference is really about putting his players on notice… “everyone is in play” is the phrase he has repeated often. Me thinks Rasheed is somewhere talking to a real estate agent.

By david

June 3, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Pistons just fired Saunders with a 176 and 70 record and we are going to keep our clown with 100 wins and a million losses. ANYWAY I would love talking to you guys about which players I think would be fun or a good fit and trades, free agents etc. But while we have Woodson we are all just spinning our wheels. SPINNING. I just can’t get into it YET.

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

david I might call it driving on slashed tires. We are moving forward, but it damages the vehicle as we go.

Astro Joe if my blog recall works, it sounds like you are talking about a sexy GM. One that many folks want, but few can have.

When you are where we are, his sloppy seconds make a great date for us. While I had a preference for his 2003 old pal (Carlisle), the 2008 model (Saunders) will do.

Dumars PAIN = our good CRAP.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

June 3, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

got to agree with MannyT on ‘sheed.

it is back to assets, and as much as i am in favor of moving m. williams, giving him up for a one year rental of a talented, but mercurial, player isn’t the best use of one of our most trade able assets.

plus, i can’t see ownership taking on his salary unless bibby’s contract was moved (b/c there’s no reason what-so-ever for detriot to take on claxton’s deal with two years remaining).

By RA

June 3, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Saunders has proven that he can manage the established talent on a team that was geared for a championship run before he even got there. Honestly, I think Dumars could have done a lot worse than to keep him. What he’s forgetting is that the Celtics are probably the strongest team that the east has come across since the last great Chicago team took the floor. They have THREE guys that are perrrenial all-stars and probably future hall of famers. It’s amazing what that can do for a team. As far as I’m concerned they were just the class of the east this year… As for Saunders, his track record says that he can guide a team to the playoffs, but he’s never yet taken one all the way to the top…

By david

June 3, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Saunders would be 10,000 times better than Woodson. Or Avery. I think I would rather have Avery but somebody with a brain will grab him soon enogh. Avery an aggressive guy with a point guard mentality that has been successful with a great organization and we are going to keep Woodson. Absolutely amazing. We are suppose to believe that they are really really trying to get them to the next level and still having Woodson on the banch. This is the most insane thing EVER. Insane: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I would rather have K-Fed.

By Astro Joe

June 3, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

MannyT, if you can find the press conference on YouTube (or elsewhere) it should be required viewing. He was a ticked off exec who is clearly all about accountability. A little arrogance came through (“I’ve given the previous coaches very good teams to work with”) but it was a very impressive press conference by a clear leader. I’m not sure that I like the idea of Flip here (even if we could afford him). I’m not sure that he demands respect amongst his players. I’d be fearful about how Smith may respond to a “softer hand”.

By ray

June 3, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Good God, Sam. Do you really hate white people that much? I mean really…Mike Woodson over Flip Saunders? There’s absolutely NOTHING in Flip Saunders’ resume that I can see that you could point to and say that this guy is definitely not better than Woodson. I mean, given your usual tenor….what else could it be? C’mon dude…

Tell ya what. I’ll google him and see if he owns a plantation with black slaves working on it. If he does, then we’ll hook up with Clyde and get some t-shirts made in protest, then we’ll picket outside of his property, okay?

By the way, I’m not saying we should hire Flip. He’s not my first choice by a long shot. I’d rather try Avery Johnson, Rudy Tomjanovich, maybe even Mark Jackson as a first-timer, and a few others come to mind. But Flip…any day…has proven that he’s better than Woodson. One such example is that Stuckey has been much more involved and more effective under Flip than Acie has been under Woody. Player development…it’s the name of the game.

Ill-logical, all I can say is that your post was off the damn chain. Nice work.

MannyT, could indeed be some good CRAP coming. Could be indeed.

I could really roll with idea of ‘Sheed coming here. But I think he wants to be in a much more stable and winning environment. And please don’t take that as “I’d rather him not come here.” I just don’t think he’d stay. He’d be a hell of an inside-outside match with Horford. Who could stop that tandem, especially once Horford really develops his low post moves?

By david

June 3, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

By the way excuse the typos when I talk about Woodson I lose my mind. I lose my coordination.

By cp

June 3, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Yea the one thing they kept mentioning is that nobody respects Flip. I think that even with that he would be better than Woodson. I think his offense would do a lot to improve the game of Marvin Williams. It would also not force JJ to do so much to score. Plus I dont think we have any guys on our team who are as bad personality wise as some of the Piston players. I would take Flip over Woodson in a heart beat.

By ILL-Logical

June 3, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the love fellas! And IJS = I ‘m just saying.

By terrell barron

June 3, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Lets be realistic here, SHEED IS’NT COMING BACK TO ATLANTA. With the BASG? Are you kidding me? Now we might could get someone like Ratliff or Diop which would’nt be a bad idea. But Sheed, get real! They cant even decide if they want to pay the Joshes yet, and you think they’ll pay for Rasheed? PLEASE!

By ray

June 3, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Flip ain’t my first choice. Respect or not, dude has WON games. Minnesota was better when he was there. The Detroit gig was a hard act to follow. Larry Brown had already done his work, and “Big Ben” had already stopped juicing and was on his way to Chicago. It was over. Flip still had them boys in the thick of things.

Besides, the coach situation isn’t the only thing that will change in Detroit. Look for some serious roster changes as well…

terrell barron, I agree. What’s his motivation for coming here? Still, if he came I wouldn’t be sad at all…and if he ran Woody off…so much the better.

By SalimFan

June 3, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

David Avery has taken a talented team somewhere it has never been before to the finals (Dallas) and they almost won. What did Flip do with the pistons that they haven’t already done…. Exactly Avery is clearly better. The Pistons defenetly have more talent than his dallas team did in 06’. I WOULD TAKE EITHER COACH THOUGH. YOU’VE GOT TWO PREMIER COACHES OUT IN THE OCEAN….IF SUND DOESN’T GET ONE THEN THE BASG DEFENETLY HIRED THE WRONG GM.

Also Diop was a big part of the reason dallas got to the Finals that year, so don’t sleep on him. He’s a free agent and I think we should make a move……if we do the there is really no need for Andersen (assuming he’s as soft as I think he will be). I love sheed but we’ve got what we need we just need a Bruiser now, not finesse. DANNY FORTSON or DIOP!!!!!!!!!! BOTH!!!!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 3, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Here’s what I know about Flip Saunders — maybe his teams choke in the playoffs, maybe his players are not all that disciplined, but the man has had a defined system in every place he has been a coach. That’s a lot more than you can say about Woody. Offensively we would be a LOT better with Flip. Defensively, he’s a bit too much of a zone defense guy to me. I’m in Charles Barkley’s camp when it comes to zones — they are defenses for people who can’t play man to man. I’m with Ray — there are better candidates out there, but I would be fine with hiring Flip too.

By Sautee

June 3, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

doc

Hope the soccer dad thing is going well. Give us an update when you can.

peace

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 3, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

I’m not a big fan of this Sheed acquisition people are talking about (don’t really know where the idea is coming from anyway). We need a bruising big guy who can handle opposing 7-footers defensively. We don’t need a guy who’s getting paid $11 million a year to spend an entire playoff game jacking up three-pointers. As much as people love talking about how talented Sheed is, the fact is he has never, ever lived up to his supposedly amazing talent for a full season. If you can find a way to acquire him for peanuts and pay him jack sh-t then sure, but like SalimFan says, getting a guy like Diop will fill our need at a much cheaper cost.

By Sautee

June 3, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

Najeh

I’m with you and Manny on not having “Sheed.

He’s 6’11” and his career rebound avg. is under 7 rpg. I realize that he plays away from the basket a lot, but with his athletic ability, you’d think it would be higher.

And yes, anyone that plays alongside Horford(were ‘Sheed to come back here) will lack in the rebound dept., BUT it (6.9 rpg at his size)indicates a lack of will to me.

We don’t talk enough about Will.

The great ones have it in abundence, on top of their talent, and that’s exactly why they are top tier.

It’s the only thing that will make Tyler Hansborough a useful player (but likly not a starter) in the league next year. If he had the size and talent of “Sheed, he’d dominate with his will.

Of course the best example is Bill Russell followed closely by MJ.

Who do y’all see currently in the league with a dominating will? Or growing into it?

(Other than the obvious - Kobe, KG, Duncan, LeBron).

By terrell barron

June 3, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Here’s a few bigs that we could get for a REASONABLE PRICE. Remember, it’s the BASG that we’re talking about here. Theo Ratliff, Patrick O’Bryant, DeSagana Diop, Joel Prizbilla, Jamal Magloire, Dikembe Mutombo, Kwame Brown, Alonzo Mourning, Randolph Morris, Bryan Skinner, Francisco Elson. I see at least 5 guys on that list who could help us out in the paint. We need to stop with all this Sheed talk, especially if we plan on signing the Joshes.

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Dumars video on ESPN

…and the follow up that looks to Curry as the next coach.

notice the words about Flip’s deal. Recall how our assistants were bailing out last summer. This supports my conclusion that if Woody stays, he gets a multi-year deal.

On a side note, Bibby makes more than ‘sheed next season…which is the last season of his deal. He would definitely make this team better as far as talent, but I don’t see him as happy here unless we are on pace to be a top 3 seed in the east.

I don’t know about his relationship with Woody or any other coach, but it better be someone he respects. Then the big question is what do you do with him in 2009? Re up a 35 year old or use that cap room to go after a younger center. You won’t find someone with his skills.

While I think it’s extremely unlikely, here’s how you make it work fiscally while making the Hawks better for the upcoming season and the long term.

Basic points control costs and get better overall.

You’ll need a 3rd team.

Since Detroit’s in a dealing mood Bibby goes to team 3, we get Sheed and a draft pick. Detroit gets asset from team 3 to replace ‘Sheed.

To manage costs to keep Ando’s ASG buddies from filing bankruptcy, Smoove has to go in a sign & trade. Here is where you get a quality PG for a decent price (examples—TJ Ford, Devin Harris, Andre Miller) and a pick. Thus the effective cost of Smith’s slot is less than $10MM. You can resign Chills for about 6-7MM/yr and your payroll for next season is roughly 60MM with a starting 5 of Sheed, Al, Marvin/Chills, JJ & the new PG.

You still have at least one expiring contract (Wallace), but possibly another (Miller or Harris) so you have a great shot at a major free agent if you want. You can still deal ‘Sheed in February to a contender if he isn’t working out here…and you got some additional draft picks that could always be packaged for real players if you want…or tossed aside for magic beans if you are Phoenix and don’t want to pay for the picks.

If you refuse to deal Josh Smith, you don’t have to, but you need to get a PG (Ford?) in the 3 way for Bibby instead of the draft pick. However, your payroll goes up to $70+ but you have a real contender (Sheed, Horford, Josh S, Josh C, Marvin, JJ, Ford, AC, Zaza and probably minimums on bench Mario, Jeremy + 1 other to go with Claxton.)

Now that’s one step forward now CRAP!

By TLS

June 3, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

I know it’s a bit late on this post but Flip Saunders was just fired today. Saunders is to Mike Woodson what Al horford is to Shelden Williams- everything the other was supposed to be. A tough, defensive minded winner. The job interview should be only two questions: 1. How much do you want? 2. Do you prefer check or direct deposit? HIRE HIM NOW!!!!

By terrell barron

June 3, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

If the Lakers win the championship with Gasol, I say we make a push for Bynum. They almost moved him for Kidd’s old azz, so I know we could come up with something.

By SalimFan

June 3, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Check this Rick Sund Interview by Micah Hart of Hawks.com

By terrell barron

June 3, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Tyler Hansborough had will IN COLLEGE, but so did Sheldon Williams.

By Astro Joe

June 3, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

Trust me, I’m not saying I’d choose Woody over Flip. But I’d rather have Fratello over Flip. Or Avery over Flip. Laimbeer over Flip. And maybe even Alvin Gentry over Flip. The last thing this still much too young team needs is someone for the youngsters to run over and through.

The idea of Rasheed here (with Smith I assume), is laughable. Rasheed would be a horrendous influence on Smith (and fellow Tar Hill Marvin). If we somehow have the budget to pay 3-4 over $12M/year, I think there are better options than the unstable (and perennial underachiever) Rasheed Wallace.

Lastly, and this is for the new father (congrats by the way). I heard Dumars discuss his plan to change the core of the Pistons. He then responded to a question (which was inaudible) by stating that he would have to “find a dance partner” in order to work his plan. He said “I won’t give away these players just to come back to the media and say that I told you I would make a change”. Too often, we act like completing a trade is as easy as thinking one up. Dumars reminded all listening that trades require 2 willing parties but he also let people understand that the lack of a trade doesn’t mean there wasn’t an attempt to get one done.

Again, if Dumars’ complete press conference is available on YouTube (or elsewhere) it should be required viewing for diehard basketball fans (and wannabe front office execs).

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

I reiterate, I don’t think he fits here as far as chemistry, however, allow me to be ‘SheedFan for a moment.

Offensively, he immediately becomes #2 option, 2nd best 3 point shooter and the guy that draws a big away from the basket so the slashers can be more effective.

On defense, he can easily defend the 4 or 5. You can keep him in the game if the other team plays small ball or goes big.

The contract risk is small—his expiring deal is about a million less than Bibby’s. If he re ups, the dollar amount will not be increasing due to his age.

‘Sheed, like Bibby, has the one thing that we didn’t even sniff until the playoffs…SWAGGER.

It would be a wild time, but if he doesn’t implode, the risk is limited by the contract length.

‘SheedFan signing off - fanatical CRAP

By Harry Hawk

June 3, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

Hell no to ‘Sheed.

(Although I would like to break out my #36 Hawks ‘Sheed jersey.)

The Hawks need a veteran frontcourt presence, but ‘Sheed will go even more buck wild on the court without any older dudes to show some semblance of trying to keep him in check. I sure as hell don’t want Woody on the sidelines next year; if he were coaching ‘Sheed, I’d cover my eyes and cringe. We’d be back in the lottery in a heartbeat. At least we’d be able to move him at the deadline. Yippee!

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

When did Flip become defensive minded? I know the Pistons are strong defensively, but that was true before Flip came on the scene. In an attempt to be objective, I’d give Woody more credit than Flip for their defensive intensity.

However, Flip could bring offensive innovation to our team and let them run.

On the list of reasonable bigs. I have to drop the ones that would not come here. Some are not cheap to get. That leaves me with a target list of Patrick O’Bryant, DeSagana Diop, Randolph Morris, Bryan Skinner, Francisco Elson. I really doubt that Morris can help us. Elson & Skinner are 32, so they are lower on the priority list.

That leaves me with Diop & O’Bryant.

Ok with either at the moment as a piece of the puzzle. I read an article that NJ wants to bring Diop back. We can offer playing time, they might have more cap space.

No PAIN, unless you compare any of these guys to ‘Sheed!

By SalimFan

June 3, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Sheeds not right for a number of reasons but underachieving is NOT one of them. All of his teams dating back to his High School days have all won A LOT. Sheed and JJ would be rediculous BUT sheed SHOULD BE LEAVING HIS PRIME ANY DAY NOW. You know all of a sudden performance just takes a nosedive (SHAQ)………But he could be like Deke and be albe to contribute for the next eight to ten years. If not offensively then defenetly defensively (in the paint).

But I’m all for the youth movement and I would rather get a young center that is “Garensheed” to be productive for the next ten years (granted they stay healthy and committed of course).

By Sautee

June 3, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

terrell brandon

I really never saw that out of Sheldon at Duke. And other than Coach K, I haven’t seen it in too many Dookies either. Maybe Brand and Boozer.

And Johnny Dawkins years ago.

I’m NOT saying Hansborough will be a great pro. On the contrary, I think his will is what will get him playing time as a bench player.

But I do see an intensity in him that’s lacking in too many players in the league.

And my earlier list left out Iverson, who should have been near the top. That’s what I mean by will!!!!

By david

June 3, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Sheed just said today that he knows he’s on his decline that he’s not as athletic and can’t jump like he used to. We don’t need a guy that’s telling the world that he knows he’s on his way out. I wish we had been smart enough to get Al Jefferson when we could have. Can you imagine on this team having a guy like that that is not flashy and is big and gets every rebound and can score and is getting better every year. I knew we should have drafted him out of high school. But our clowns only looked at NC and Duke. Why do we know more than our GMs and coaches? Makes me sick.

By ray

June 3, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

Heh, heh! I’m just waiting for Sund to start doing his thing. Whatever that turns out to be. Until then…

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

SalimFan the term Garensheed/Guaransheed carries a high bar for me. Is there anyone that is available that you expect to get 13 or more years of 15 ppg, 7 rebs (including 60 3 ptrs/season from a PF?

Yes, he has issues and you can say he has underachieved, but what he has produced for a career is pretty rare.

If you want to estimate fall off this season vs career—check out the season highs/career highs at the bottom of the career stats and totals page.

This year’s gold standard for fall off-Shaq.

Stats for Sheed

It looks like there is still plenty of good CRAP in the tank.

By SalimFan

June 3, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Manny, I never said sheed would fall off anytime soon (as in the next three years’) BUT considering how young our team is and how long we can be a power three years is not a long time.

I agree, Plenty of good CRAP left in the tank. But I wouldn’t trade a core member of the team for him. We can defenetly score him in free agency at the end of next season. We’ve got roster spots to think about this season…..not to mention paying Bibby and Joe all that moolah but Bibby,JJ,and Sheed=50+wins and a second round playoff appearance for sure.

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

Sautee isn’t will somewhat a given for the major, non-shot blocking, defensive players? While we don’t like to give them as much attention, Bruce Bowen has it, Rodman had it (even though he went psycho long before Hansbrough). Mario West might have it, but needs to learn more about focusing it at the NBA level.

Will as a difference maker seems to show up as effective intensity more than pure talent.

Iverson may be the best example of offensive will. He just keeps coming at you like a 160 lb guy in a heavyweight fight.

I suspect Hansbrough’s level of intensity will translate to the NBA. He may not be a star, but he will hang around.

We like Mario West because good CRAP always appreciates will!

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

If money is a major concern and you are not sure you can sign both Joshes and you want to move forward…see 6:58 PM post for a way to do so that includes ‘Sheed.

By Sautee

June 3, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Manny

Yes, I’d say that the better defensive position players in the league have it.

Indeed Mario West does have it. But his talent level is lower than we’ve been discussing.

And Acie definitely had it at A&M, but Woody took it away.

As Horford’s confidence grows he’ll have it in spades.

Stuckey seemed to have some. Dude was totally undaunted by the moment.

And I see it as not only intensity, but production above what one might expect in the clutch.

How many times did we say “Can MJ possibly do it again? And he did. Bird too, and Magic, though I didn’t list them before.

By Samuel

June 3, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

You guys are amazing. Last year I suggested getting AI here and yall pretty much had the same response. He’s old and lost a step and would be a bad enfluence. He went on to have one of his best years ever and that’s saying alot.

Now, I mention another possible Hall of Fame player and yall come up with the same lame crap. Even from a guy who thinks Salim Stodamire deserves more than 10 minutes a game, give me a break. Rasheed would instantly become the best player on the team. Period. I don’t care if it’s for one year. You upgrade your roster and your franchise and worry about resigning when the time comes.

Yall see where the Heat may move DWade for Chicago’s #1. That would give them the top two picks. Interesting!

I’m also not trilled with Avery Johnson. I mean, the man inherited a gold mine and couldn’t stick. How is he such a good choice. He’s being mentioned at every vacancy but so far, no takers.

By doc

June 3, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

sautee, thanks for asking. the season is complete, no state cup to take home. bittersweet to say the least as she is hanging up her cleats with this season rather than continue in her senoir year with another team. her team is breaking up due to many factors. quite a run to say the least as her team worked its way up from the lowest level to finish in third this past year in the most competitive section of the state soccer program. the team was obviously not playing with its usual heart and demeanor knowing that they were done.

she played hard until the end and had nothing left in her last game when she came off the field towards the end of the game. hard to believe how quickly it went and how easy it is to remember that first tournament she was in back about 5 years ago as though it was last week. in the end her teams walked away with a lot of hardware and she probably accrued a larger trophy case than her older brother. now she is on to the next phase of her life whatever that is as she moves into the senior year of high school.

guys, btw, sautee is an accomplished musician and producer as i have got one of his albums. great song about doc ellis and his no hitter pitched while he was flying on lsd.

i wonder if woody is having a shot of reality as he watches members of his fraternity that have truly accomplished and then been let go after three years of winning ball where the bar is placed a bit higher. i think it is about time for this organization to set its bar higher and suggest to its players just getting into the playoffs isnt quite the goal here. sund needs to make a change simply to hammer in the notion of what sacrifice and preparation it takes to get to he elite level. i would think sund would have had a list when he interviewed of who he wants and hopefully he is checking out the pipeline to see if it is full.

peace

By SalimFan

June 3, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

Yes…..even me. So? Right now moving Bibby is not smart considering our problem at that position. JJ Breaks the bank and the joshes are soon to follow.

In order to get Rasheed THIS YEAR we would have to trade a core member. NOT GONNA HAPPEN…PERIOD. Sund isn’t gonna do it and neither would any other GM. Not Sheed(34) For smith (22) BTW in twelve years when Smith is rasheed’s age how good do you think he will be? How many titles do you think the hawks can win in twelve years???? Catch my drift. It’s nothing personal, I love sheed I was a portland turned piston fan because of sheed. But when you have the oppourtunity to be good for at least a decade why would yo trade that talent???

Detroit isn’t going to want Marvin, ZAZA, Solomon, or even Mario (the only players I would consider moving this off-season) so thats out.

Wanting to Get one of your favorite players on your favorite team doesn’t make it right or reasonable (at the moment) Next year when he’s a free agent then we talk.

Just like your favorite player may need to leave a team in order to be succesful.

Diop is cheaper and younger. Next year we probably won’t even be able to get sheed either. b/c we’ll be over the cap possibly..

If Rasheed signs a one year contract with anyone he would still break the bank. Besides Dumars is just ANGRY but he’s not STUPID Rasheed may not be going anywhere. If anything he’d come off the bench in faor of maxiell. BUT WHY WOULD YOU GIVE OF THE GUY WHO GOT YOU A CHAMPIONCHIP???? And he’s still as productive as he ever was. That’s right it doesn’t make sense especially with only one year left on his deal.

By MannyT

June 3, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

Sautee stop tempting me to throw gasoline on Woody.

He does have a knack for turning some players into the king of hearts.

As Bowen did, Mario needs to develop a jump shot. He needs to pick 3 spots and go on a jumper marathon for the summer. It can be Josh ugly, but it’s got to be consistent. This could steel him against the Woody effect.

Ben Wallace found it and lost it.

Gary Payton had it when he was in Seattle.

The Hawks could use more of it…more good CRAP.

By terrell barron

June 3, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Sautee, the guy was’nt called the landlord at Duke for nothing. He was all ACC, just like Tyler. And Hansborough will not get all of those foul calls at the next level. Remember, Sheldon was only the 3rd player in NCAA History with 1500 points, 1000 reb, 350 blocks, and 1500 steals. So he had WILL. It just did’nt translate to the next level. And I dont think Tyler’s will either. Just my opinion.

By terrell barron

June 3, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

And Sautee, its Terrell Barron, not Brandon. Did’nt he come to the Atl in a trade, a few years back? lol!

By HB Ando

June 3, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I gotta say that Flip would be a major improvement over Woody. Problem is that we need him WAY worse than he needs us. And I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that his salary requirements are well beyond the kind of money the ASG would be willing to pay a head coach.

But I’ll say it again, and I need to qualify this position by admitting that I simply don’t like the Detroit Pistons: As old, injured and undermanned (in the paint) as they were, their defensive pressure on the Celtics was nothing short of brilliant. And that’s a combination of coaching and getting players to commit to the game plan.

Flip may be flawed, but he’s light years better than Woody.

I don’t know who it’s going to be, but I just don’t see Sund standing pat here. Woody was Billy’s hire. He did the best he could. But there’s simply not any viable argument, that I can come up with, that supports the idea that he’s a guy capable of taking an NBA team to the top.

And if his dismissal ultimately a matter of “when”, and not “if”, then sooner is always the best policy.

Also, given the well-documented issues surrounding who’s staying and who might have to go, from a team payroll standpoint, wouldn’t it make sense to know who’s going to coach this team, for the next five years or so, before you make any such decisions?

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 4, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

“Rasheed would instantly become the best player on the team. Period. I don’t care if it’s for one year.”

I don’t own a spaceship, so I’ve never traveled to the universe where Rasheed Wallace is a better player than Joe Johnson. I do know that this one is not it. Rasheed is a nice complementary player who will take a good team and make it a great team. If Joe Dumars gets high one day and decides to give him to the Hawks for Bibby straight up I’m all for it. But more than likely the Hawks would have to give up one of their top three players to rent him for one year. For a lifetime underachiever who is on the wrong side of 30 that is way too steep of a price to pay.

By MannyT

June 4, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this

Najeh expiring contracts can inspire folks to get a deal done. It could happen in a 3 way trade where we get ‘Sheed, Bibby goes to team 3, and Detroit gets what they need from team 3. There might be a draft pick or two involved.

I could see the Hawks holding out for a pick or a PG in addition to ‘Sheed.

All that said, I still think the powers that be are afraid to bring him in and muck with the chemistry…regardless of who is coaching.

Speaking of coaches…

By MannyT

June 4, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

Not that I normally bring totally non-hoops info to the table, but someone linked to YouTube of a woman on MARTA going a bit off.

For the Paul Harvey folks out there…here is the rest of the story.

There is actually an AJC update on that story.

By ray

June 4, 2008 2:48 AM | Link to this

Okay, I couldn’t let this one go.

Sam suggests that Rasheed would come in here and be the best player on this team right away. Not only that, but he also uses Allen Iverson’s situation as a repeat example of him being right about bringing in a certain type of talented veteran player. Got a few things to say about all that:

1)Everything depends on Wallace’s attitude. If he’s motivated, he’s a force. It’s always been that way with him. He hasn’t been motivated consistently since Larry and Ben left town. If he’s not motivated in Detroit, where he has a chance to win big, what’s his motivation here?

2)Wallace is an un-checked force. Hard to control. You’d have to have a coach with a supple, but iron hand. Do we have that? Didn’t think so. Not to mention, this guy would run JJ over. Speaking of JJ, I think he wishes he was back in a Phoenix-like situation, where someone else is spear-heading the leadership stuff. Guys like Wallace never help the locker-room. Which means they don’t help on the floor either, in the big picture.

3)Yeah, I missed the league announcement too. I didn’t know Rasheed was better than Joe Johnson. Ha. Crack kills….

4)Comparing this to the non-acquisition of Allen Iverson is just off-base, in my opinion. Is it just me, or does it seem like Iverson has a lot more to work with in Denver than he EVER would have here? And yet, we managed to do better against the best team in the east (hey, we won 3 games and pushed the series to 7)? Riiiight…. Iverson couldn’t get it done in Denver, Wallace didn’t in Detroit. Why would either be expected to do anything (besides make Sam happy for once) tremendous here?

By nahjay davnpooh

June 4, 2008 2:57 AM | Link to this

firing flip only to make an eqaul opp hire in curry is stupid.

and the hawks need some white people on their roster. maybe now that racist billy knight is gone, that will happen. and get rid of woody, he looks like an ape.

By ray

June 4, 2008 3:14 AM | Link to this

“Racist Billy”, who brought us Zaza, Slava Medvedenko, John Edwards, Matt Freije, and had Jason Collier (before tragedy struck). Yeah…

DING, DING, DING, DING, DING….

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 4, 2008 3:48 AM | Link to this

I’d blame the Nuggets’ underachieving more on the insanely overrated Carmelo Anthony than Iverson actually. Iverson’s team had its most successful season in 2001 when they went to the finals, when his teammates were all defensive specialists who wouldn’t completely embarrass themselves on offense. Every year he’s had a so-called “second option” offensively his teams have not done as well. If Melo could do anything other than score that team would have been a lot more successful. I think AI would probably fit better on the Hawks than he does on the Nuggets, because all the Hawks’ key players can make an impact without the ball in their hands, although I still wouldn’t necessarily want to add AI to this team.

Ray, please don’t respond to it.

By SalimFan

June 4, 2008 4:48 AM | Link to this

Even from a guy who thinks Salim Stodamire deserves more than 10 minutes a game

Trying to belittle my statements doesn’t make your argument any more valid than it already wasn’t. Often people revert to using such tactics (Insults) when they have nothing better to say. In laments terms, they’ve been beaten. These acts are often prevalent among children…let’s not go there.

Look the fact of the matter is this: THE ATLANTA HAWKS DON’T NEED RASHEED….PEROID. Even if he does get DEALT (not signed) The Hawks would NOT be one of the teams trying to make a move for him. Stop being a FAN and think like a GM.

Teams vying for Rasheeds services would more than likely be teams trying to win it all RIGHT NOW. NOT teams with youth and raw talent just trying to attain home court advantage as a goal for the season (shoot we’re just tryna win 40+ games next season).

I call them the Retirement Teams. (San Antonio, Pheonix, and Dallas). Notice how an Eastern Conference team was not mentioned above. Why??? Because as an unwritten rule (all GM’s know this) YOU ABSOLUTELY DO N0T DEAL YOUR PLAYERS TO THE COMPETETION IN YOUR OWN CONFRENCE!!!!

Why you ask?? B/C those are the teams you’re trying to beat out for the conference title. Even if you’re not going to be good for a while, you don’t let your talent go to another conference power(eventually it will come back to haunt you…. and probably kick you out of the first round of the playoffs the following season). Notice how most of the trades this year was between conferences and not in the same one (With the exception of the Gasol deal but that’s another story).

You got all bent out of shape because we’re knocking your trade suggestion:

1) That in your case don’t really have any logic behind it or you wouldn’t have resorted to Flaming people.

2) In support of your argument you referenced another trade suggestion shot down by your peers (that should tell you something…)

3) Your suggestion was “NOT VERY GOOD” anyway.

“Give em Speedy’s contract,Marvin and Salim.”

Salim doesn’t belong to the Hawks anymore. No one is going to accept Speedy’s contract because he is injured and probably about to retire. so that leaves Marvin for Rasheed??? Nuff said.

Riddle me this, What gave you the notion that Detroit need more guards??? How bout Small Forwars????

There is a little term I’m going to suggest to you. It’s called TBP

Thinking Before Posting: You might want to get a Sticky note and place it next to your computer. I really think it well help you out in the future.

One more thing…….. YES SALIM STOUDAMIRE NEEDS MORE THAN TEN MINUETS TO BE A SINGNIFICANT FACTOR IN THE OUTCOME OF OUR GAMES….

“We tried to trade up to get him,” Hawks general manager, Billy Knight said after the draft. “We really feel he was the best shooter in college basketball. Anywhere on the floor he’s a threat, and he’ll bring that element to our team. He hit so many game-winning shots for his college team, so we know he’ll take those shots.”

By ray

June 4, 2008 4:59 AM | Link to this

Najeh, you talking about responding to You or your doppleganger? As to your last post, I’d have to say I agree…

By richbrave

June 4, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

MANNY T:

FLIP for WOODY.?? What, are you the WOODEN-One’s cheer leader now.?? I think, retch it’s WOODY, is more like it. Oh right. You meant FLIP WILSON.

Speaking of ghosts, I’m bummed by the passing of one of my fave musicians, BO DIDDLEY. He used to do ads on T.V. for a local pawn shop in Richmond. Gonna’ miss knowing he’s in the realm of the living.

MANNY T, just kiddin’ man. Feeling squirrel-ly this morning. Great day to be alive. How YOU dooin’.??

Have we divested ourselves of BIBBY for a playah’ yet.?? Man, the CELTICS beat him like a rented mule.

By Samuel

June 4, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

On Sheed,

People that have been around the league know that it’s never been a case of motivation. Sure he has been hot tempered for wanting to win so badly but never lack of motivation. The whole Detroit team got outplayed by Boston, not just Sheed.

I love Josh Smith but he’s got a long way to go to accomplish what Sheed has in this league. Please don’t project him into that category yet.

Like Sund said, you need a mixture of youth and vets and Detroit just got too old, just like the Spurs. Is anybody suggesting that we don’t need a Manu. What kind of series did he have?

Yall say Sheed hasn’t been motivated since Larry Brown. How do you know it was Larry who motivated him. Wasn’t Woody there too? If Larry is such a good motivator, why wasn’t he able to motivate and win with the Knicks?

I believe coaches can make a difference but make no mistakes about it. It’s more about the players.

I say again, Woody deserves a chance to continue what he started with a good group of players. I still say we could use another good vet with the heart of a Sheed into that mix.

By Daniel

June 4, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

What about a trade for Varejao from Cleveland? He makes reasonable money and would be a good active big man alongside Big Al. Thoughts?

By SalimFan

June 4, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

You’re him ARENT YOU!!!! WOODPECKER ALLERRTT!!!!

By Sautee

June 4, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

terrell barron

My humble apologies. And I’ve laughed at others getting it wrong in the past. Going too fast.

Brandon did have a couple of great years before he got hurt. Here’s hoping we’ll have you around for much longer.

And I don’t mean to minimize Sheldon’s college career. But in crunch time it was usually Redding trying to impose his will. I saw fewer instances of Sheldon showing his. It DID happen, but not as often.

But he was a productive college player.

And I watched Duke a lot. I guess we all did since:

Duke basketball is to ESPN as Notre Dame football is to NBC. Ugh. Sorry Golden Domers.

doc

Thanks for the kind words. In the interest of “keepin’ it real” I gotta point out that while I co-produced, and played bass on the recording, the songs are all by my buddy Chuck Brodsky, a brilliant songwriter who has songs in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Check him out at www.chuckbrodsky.com

richbrave

Yeah, Bo Diddley is a loss for sure. How many musicians have a rhythm pattern named after them?

That would be one.

Najeh

I agree about AI. I used him as a prime example of will, but, like Manny said about ‘Sheed, AI would need to be the final piece of the puzzle, and the Hawks still need too much. Plus the BASG isn’t gonna pay 21 mil/yr. to ANYONE.

salimfan

Good post. I love TBP. We’d have a better blog (though maybe less entertaining) if we all did that. Plus, I would have gotten Terrell’s last name right.

By nahjay davnpooh

June 4, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

hey ray,

you’re joking about zaza and slava, right? they’re not white. plus, the white players you did name were centers, further proving my point that knight was racist. the only position he ever put a white person at was center, because it’s hard to find anyone that’s 7-feet tall sometimes. you can say players like tom gugliatta or bobby sura, but those two came from trades and were gone by the end of the season.

if you want the hawks to win, you want them to take a chapter from the falcons book (see matt ryan over michael vick).

By terrell barron

June 4, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

It’s Reddick, not Redding. SLLLOOOWWW DOOOOWWWWNNN! lol!!!

By Author

June 4, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Wow…Nahjay must be one of those people who only counts people from Scandanavia as white (and therefore, only Scandanavian’s count as human beings to him). Apparently, even Slavs aren’t good enough for this Defender of All Things Aryan. From a person who is part Slav and part Hispanic, let me say…frack you.

Gotta love it.

By terrell barron

June 4, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Want a good laugh? I was checking out the Hoopshype forums and saw this trade. Hawks get T-Mac, Rodney Stuckey and Mark Blount. Pistons get D-Wade. Houston gets Richard Hamilton, Zaza, Daequan Cook, and Joel Anthony. Miami gets JOE JOHNSON, ACIE LAW, AND AL HORFORD. Ha Ha Ha !!! wtf????? The nerve of some people. So we give up Joe, Big Al, and Acie for an often injured T-Mac, Rodney Stuckey(who we coulda had if we wanted him) and a contract. PLEASE!! If Sund did that, he’d be arrested by the GBI. lol!

By Sautee

June 4, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

terrell

Oh Geez, you’re right. And that’s even after salimfan’s TBP suggestion.

Guess I need more coffee. No, wait.

lol, very loud.

Hey, at least it keeps me humble. How could I NOT be after this morning. Geez.

By terrell barron

June 4, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

They even had the nerve to put our new starting five on there. Bibby-Stuckey-T-Mac-Josh Smith-Blount. Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!

By terrell barron

June 4, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

They even had the nerve to put our new starting five on there. Bibby-Stuckey-T-Mac-Josh Smith-Blount. Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! Pretty good lineup, but PLEASE!

By nahjay davnpooh

June 4, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

terrell barron,

there is nothing on hoopshype that says that, so shut the hell up and go rob a liquor store.

By Sautee

June 4, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

terrell barron

Yeah, the day we give up Horford (until years from now when he’s old and slow) is the day I stop caring about the Hawks.

Very funny. Do they think Gearon is the GM? No even he wouldn’t do that deal.

By Najeh Davenpoop

June 4, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Replace Al Horford with Zaza in that trade proposal and it becomes at least reasonable. But two of our top three players for a guy with a chronic back problem and a 7 footer who can’t rebound? B-ball columnists really have nothing better to do in the offseason than f-ck around with the ESPN trade machine, huh?

By terrell barron

June 4, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Hey DavenPOOP, Look at the trades forum, you freakin idiot. The last one on page 1. Now go screw yourself!

By MannyT

June 4, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

terrell it just goes to show that folks will put any group of names out there that work well for their team. They don’t care how it looks to the rest of the world. That’s why I call them magic bean trades…you get some dirt and seeds and hope that it works out, but the other side gets a fully ready to go tree.

richbrave I’ve got on my asbestos blog suit—fire away—no worries;-0

The Woody for Flip thought was exactly what the ‘Skins did w/the Vikings last week to get Erasmus James. Instead of just letting the guy go to the open market, let’s close the deal for a token offer.

I heard the Sund man on 680 the fan this morning about 9:30AM. He was also on 790 the zone before that. He seems to be working the media friendly thing in a way that BK never did. That probably gets him some future media credits that he may need one day. He spoke nicely about everyone, but he has not had time to speak to most of the players. He did say the hardest part of being a GM is hiring a coach. Read into that what you want.

He understands that the team needs a few vets.

Sounds like good CRAP, but actions speak louder than radio waves.

By femhawkfan

June 4, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

nahjay davnpooh maybe you should look at the entire NBA if you are concerned about having more white players on teams, not just the Hawks. For example, take a look at the Celtics, 76ers, and Pistons. The last time I checked, I didn’t know that having a white player on your team made you successful. Oh yeah, when the Braves get more black players, maybe the Hawks will get more white players.

By terrell barron

June 4, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Did you see it DavePOOP? Or were you just being a smartass to begin with? Why in the hell would I make up trade like that? No Hawks fan would. JERK!

By MannyT

June 4, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Ring a ding ding

hoopshype linking is fun duh mental

By MannyT

June 4, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

new blog up

By Sautee

June 4, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

new blog up

By doc

June 4, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

as manny noted, interesting interview with sund today on 680. got bits and pieces of it. the guy is very candid and i have heard more words from him this am than i did the whole tenure of bk’s existence. it doesnt mean much until the tires hit the road but it does give someone some insight as to what to expect.

for example, interesting comments on the connection of zaza to the whole until the playoffs. wasnt able to hear all of it verbatim so i may be taking it a bit out of context or maybe wanting to read some context into it. it does support what many have noted here on the ole blog that for some reason he wasnt connected or accepted by his teammates. that is not a quote only that it does suggest the guy sund is reaching deeper into team chemistry and something i like to see him doing. now he needs to know why and hold the folks responsible for not getting more out of the big guy. i think that is on the coaches or the leaders of the team, now which one will he pick? yup, cant wait to find out i do want to see and hear the word accountability as it has been missing.

though i give him cred, i will be sorry to find if nothing is done before the season starts to begin to brand the team as his own. the last time a guy named west came behind bk he did very little except wait about 20 games before the incumbent coach was fired and hubie brought in. 50 win seasons started miraculously.

i think bk was wanting to correct a wrong and i wonder if sund will be too late to act or make the correct decision for the upcoming season. as manny and others have suggested the assistants are an important piece of the puzzle. stay tuned, and now we can return the the harmony of the bells as entertainment.

By nahjay davnpooh

June 4, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

omg, terrell, you have to be the dumbest jungle-monkey on the earth. hoops hype isn’t reporting that. i thought you meant to look under the “rumors” section, where they wire the reports of real journalists from around the country.

but no, you’re stuck on some stupid message board that HAPPENS to be on hoopshype that provides a link to a GAME on espn called the “trade machine.” the particular trade that idiot proposed “succeeded” only because of cap figures.

to suggest that this was proposed or rumored to be going on is ridiculous.

now shut the hell up.

By Sautee

June 4, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

I see that our resident troll has changed names

By Sautee

June 4, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

I see our resident troll has changed names

By david

June 5, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Report that other teams might be interested in Woodson. Talk about falling of the tater wagon.

By santa3247

June 6, 2008 3:25 AM | Link to this

Hi,I’m Seong-Ho,Yoon living in Jinhae City southkorea now.

AJC.com brave bulletin I can’t write from yesterday now.

Something fraude exist I sensed and I want to send messege to people of Atlanta Braves.

1. I didn’t meet and talk with any people of USA from past to now for important things.

2. I didn’t receive any money from people of USA. Keep in mind.

3. Babylon now can threathen my families and relatives freely. Keep in mind.

May the force of Messiah be with you

P.S:P.S: Below is my blog’s some article

Freemason

Theseday it is easy for you to read articles about freemason ruling whole world in the web. But, really speaking, this is trick of the most malevolent Babylonian living in korean peninsla for the purpose of imputating their sins to freemason and the original culprit are Baylonian whose language is korean.

And what is Freemason?

[18Century passport of Freemason]

The painting upper direction was in the passport of Freemason in 1785. Look presicely.

1. In top-most, the world Justice exist. God is Conscience and Justice sense.

2. In the below, Someone’s face is painted like Sun, and the middle of his forehead is wide, dark eyebrow, nose a little wider than the white, and you can find this face is something like Asian. Yeh Solomon, Osiris, Messiah,Lion’s face.

3. In the below again, Isis and another wife exist, and in center of both located Pheonix which means the guardian of Isis.

4. In the left side, Pyramid is and in right You can catch the flags of Judah’s 12tribe.

5. The sentence of script I can’t read for this word I don’t know well. ^*^

After all, this Freemason meant that people who didn’t forget Solomon and waited Osiris, and they were connected with Judah’s 12Kingdum. They knew so well about reality theeseday I am writting over the world.

[Article about Messiah]

And upper document someone wrote I think you need to contact, but never easily you could meet with them I think. But, they don’t know this fact “Allah is Messiah” and they would be people of Judah. The good people have to hand in hand with them, and you can’t trust people who don’t want to meet and help me, if they would avoid me they must be slave or descendant of not Judah but Israel. Person who can’t talk about Neutron and Resonance Schumann would be like witches and wizards who can’t tell “Voldmort” and you can’t trust them all and unbelievable. Originally Freemason pursuited the whole kinds of Justice about history, laws, economy, etc, and Freemason who chase Common Sense Babylon made must be slave or hyperjesus.

This Freemason was started to be fully attacked by Neutron from 1880’, so they caught the information about Neutron by intelligence office, they informed this secret to Judahs’ 12tribe’s Kingdums, World War1,2 were occurred by very this information You exactly have to know I think. Freemason informed the King of Japan and Japan invaded korean peninsla and southchina, but the insufficient information couldn’t defend themselves from implanting spy, therefore Implanted inslaved bosses of Japan attacked Hawai Island by the order from Babylonian who was living in north china and southafrica.

If Freemason would dislike the war about Babylon, that is proof of inslavery, because they were people who named Atomic Bomb to Neutron Clear Bomb. This fact the kings of Judah’s 12tribe couldn’t tell a nation for poor scientific knowledge, and they didn’t want to make nation to be horrified.

Mr.Obama is Freemason 32th degree I found article about him theseday. And he quit Jesus Religion. This fact is enormous hope to the good people in Asia around.

May The Bright Morning Star be with you Real Freemason ^*^