Hawks

By G Money

May 25, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou,

This choice is really a bit befuddling. It is quite like the French saying, “the more things change, the more things remain the same.” Hopefully, it doesn’t happen that way. Hopefully, he was the one saying “take Paul or Deron or Gay” versus the one pushing the buttons in the other direction. We’ll never know. However, by July we will know if Woodson will be around and if the Joshes are going to be re-signed. That will say a lot about where this club is headed. While Bibby was hurt this past season (and gets a pass), I still believe he has one or two more great years ahead. JJ will need to be as consistent as he was the year before this past one. What will we do inside? Will we be able to deepen the bench? We are far from a consistent play-off team. The GM will be integral to moving this team forward - if the Spirit really are turning over the reins.

By Najeh Davenpoop

May 25, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

I’m willing to give this guy a chance, but I have a hard time trusting a guy whose last two jobs involved working under Billy Knight and Danny Ferry.

By Harpie

May 25, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

If Woodson stays, next season will be another season down the drain….

By Beck

May 25, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

Sekou, Mate, throw me a bone here; what is the status with Speedy?

Also, what do you think about going after Andris Biedrins in free agency?

For what it is worth: David Anderson played for the Wollongong Hawks of the NBL here in Australia. Speaking with some of my friends here they say he is the real deal. Could be just local pride for the hometown kid but at least they don’t say he sucks.

By Daniel

May 25, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Did we really need to get a ‘rookie’ GM to handle two critical free agents and coaching decisions?

By ignition

May 25, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

Wow, how to completely bust a bubble and drain all the excitement out of the fan base.. Who, What, When, and Why it makes little since.. Oh well, why does my city show such complete ineptness when operating their franchises..

By Sekou K. Smith

May 25, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Speedy is supposedly going to try and make another comeback from his latest knee surgery. I haven’t spoken to the cat in a minute. But I’ll be sure to track him down this summer.

I love Biedrins but I don’t know that he makes this team any better in the post right now. He’s a good young talent but I don’t know that you can get him for a reasonable price.

Andersen could be a potential answer to part of that problem. But only part of it.

By Beck

May 25, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Thanks Sekou!

By cp

May 25, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

The B.A.S.G. really makes it hard to get too excited about this teams future. I will give this guy a chance but I feel like others who really question this choice. It’s not like he was learning from somebody in the Spurs front office or in Detroits. This guy learned from some of the worse GM’s in the game. Hopefully he took notes on what not to do but only time will tell. The Spirit Group really have stayed true to the nickname people around here have game them, Broke Azz Spirit Group.

By 1+2

May 25, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

This hire appears to be one in which ownership wants to be in control of every aspect of the organization. Why bring in an experience individual if you can’t control the outcome? Be that as it may, whatever the club does, it needs to resign both Joshes. If either are gone, then this organization will continue to field a product that isn’t about excitement and the game but rather about ownerships ego of owing an NBA team. I hope this isn’t the case. As a matter of fact, I hope they didn’t want to sign an expensive GM because they want to invest the money in a top tier coach (Avery Johnson, dare I say). But something tells me they are attempting to be cheap. And what makes it so bad is that if they field the absolute best product (players and coach), then they will definitely operate in the black, and increase the worth of the franchise.

Anyway, within the next couple of weeks we will definitely see the direction the franchise will take. Until then, I decided not to renew my season tickets because of the uncertainity and my believing a new coach is needed. If certain changes are made, I will invest more of my hard earned money to support this franchise.

By doc

May 25, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

this doesnt strike me as the same type of young gun hire as the one for the falcons which was a guy from a great organization learning from the bottom up that did it the right way. this is more the hire of a guy who learned in an organization that did it the wrong way, over and over again.

najeh, don’t forget he was bought up and did his teething for babcock … shudders. hopefully he is like the kid who had dead end parents that came out good by not doing what his elders did.

By ILL-Logical

May 25, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

The New York Post seems to have the issue covered: Grant is cheap; Woody is cheaper than hiring a real coach and one Josh-at least one- is gone.

Folks, this not a joyful day in the ATL. BK jumped from the Titanic and Admiral Gearon is steering straight for the iceberg.

By "Craig" Claxton

May 25, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

I don’t return SKS’s calls either. Does that mean I’m eligible for the GM job? YAY! Double my salary!!!!!

Quadruple it! (2X for each busted knee.) Better respect the Speed of Speedy!

By I'm crying

May 25, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Please be wrong ILL-logical, please be wrong. I’ve already started to cry. Instead of building upon this season, it looks like we will reflect back and say “Wasn’t it fun?” when we lose 65 games per year over the next 99,000 seasons. There are many tears in my beer. (Is BK Jack or is he Rose?)

By Astro Joe

May 25, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Come one Sekou, call it what it appears to be… Gearon is hiring a yes man whom he has known for a while. How is your first hire someone who learned at the feet of Babcock and BK? Here’s guessing that Gearon is convinced that he would have done better in previous drafts and will do better in future ones. After all, he’s a life long Hawks fan.

(By the way, does no one remember how often Roy was injured during his college days? Does no one remember how many lay-ups the Hawks conceded the year before the ‘06-07 draft? And does no one remember how excited JJ was when he heard the Hawks had signed a veteran PG to allow him to move to his natural SG position that same summer?)

By I'm crying

May 25, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

(My CPU is playing games, so this may double post.)

SKS when you talk to claxton, please kick one of his knees. It will hit the floor, and he’ll be forced to RETIRE!

THANKS!

By SQUAWKER

May 25, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Well, as a guy who was hoping that the GM hiring process would put his mind at ease about the competency of the management of this organization, I can honestly say that I feel way worse about this hire than had Billy Knight stayed on.

By I'm still crying

May 25, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

AMEN, SQUAWKER. AMEN!

By femhawkfan

May 25, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Hey ILL-Logical, You really have me worried. Can you put up a link to this article? I have to read this for myself. Oh yeah, I must say that I am not to excited about this new GM. However, only time will tell. He could end up doing a really great job!

By I'm crying

May 25, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

I guess BK is the Billy Zane character. I’m not good with movies. But who cares about that or this?

I just want some @$#%$%#@ CHAMPIONSHIPS! Is that too much to ax???!!

By doc

May 25, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

for those who havent seen this, it is some funny stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfhO23NIRP0

check it out

By we remember

May 25, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

We also remember how an injured Roy was still a better prospect than Sheldon. We also remember how Sheldon was constantly torched on the defensive end in college by taller more athletic forwards and big men. Sheldon got a lot of calls because of where he played. It was clear to anybody watching him play that he was going to struggle at the next level. He is short, not long, and not athletic at all. Nobody was going to pick Sheldon in the lottery but BK. In most years Sheldon is a second rounder. We can keep talking about we needed someone to clog up the lane and blah blah blah but in reality Sheldon did not fit that bill at all. When his camp measurements came out his stock started to take a nose dive well except for BK.. His measurements showed his lack of length, height, and athleticism. Please stop with the Roy was injury prone and Sheldon fit the need because he fit no need what so ever with us. I remember the pick of Sheldon standing next to BK. . They guy was looking like the size of a sg compared to BK. I wouldn’t be shocked if Sheldon had a short career in the league. The guy just isn’t very good. There have probably been 5 pf’s from the last 3 drafts that are all second rounder’s who will have a better career. Him being from Duke got him drafted high. His college numbers were inflated.

By Joe

May 25, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

FIRE WOODY and we will be a threat in the East….the East is weak and we can make a little noise with a coach. The last time I checked, Larry Drew coach the summer league team, why is it that the Hawks are always winning???? Wake up Management!!

By Nookah

May 25, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

I am willing to give Chris Grant a chance to prove himself. He may have worked under others who may not inspire confidence but that does not mean he will be the same way. Let’s all try to be positive (I know that’s impossible), but at least give the guy a chance and let’s see what he will do.

However, when saying that I still think he has been asked to retain Woody for at least one more year. This actually for me is very sad. However, if that’s what it is then I guess we have no choice. Let us give JJ the benefit of the doubt. He gave Woody a glowing report at the end of the season. Let’s also hope that like our rookies who took time to develop, Woody is also developing even though we all know he has so many flaws.

Well Mr. Grant the ball is in your court now. Let’s hope you were the only descenting voice in your predecessors camps (Babcock & BK) when those “bad” decisions were being made.

It really is hard to be a Hawks fan!!! When saying that I wish him all the best at least for my team’s sake!!!

Go Hawks!!!!

Nuff respect!!!!

By Astro Joe

May 25, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

we remember, Shelden was a bust. But that doesn’t make Roy less injured, less likely to help us defensively nor less likely to be sub-optimized on a team without a PG. Roy missed around 35% of his rookie season. That’s akin to missing over 3 monhs of a traditional 9-5, 40-hour work week. That’s not insignificant. Miss 3 months from your job and see how that works out for you. And that 35% miss was fairly predictable based on his rookie season. He won the ROY by default. Will he likely become a very, very good player? Absolutely. But hindsight ignores all of the warning signs that this guy may easily be an oft-injured player who would have been stuck on the Atlanta bench with Woody as his coach. Just because Shelden was the wrong pick does not make the right pick the guy who won the ROY.

By Ben

May 25, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

I read some nasty comments about ASG in the news today regarding their frugality and only hiring an entry-level candidate.

If this is true, I have no confidence whatsoever in this team ever being a competitive product. Gearon is an arrogant individual who defies what any of us have to say. Levenson will just say we won 3 against the Celtics and tell us to screw off. The rest of the owners are not relevant at all in personnel decisions and probably don’t care.

ASG is a joke and is the achilles heel of this franchise. This is coming from a diehard teenage Hawks fan who has not missed a Hawks game in 5 years

By vdunkndunk

May 25, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

It’s so typical of the ATL Spirit group that nothing ever seems to change. Are the owners still suing each other? Yes. Is Woody still the coach? Yes. Is BK still the GM? No, but the Spirit tried to give him a one year extension. And now they’re about to hire a guy that worked under Knight AND Babcock. Since we’ve stunk for the last 10 years, I don’t see why the Spirit is so satisfied with the satus quo. PLEASE someone tell me that the new GM candidate was writing the owners memos explaining why they needed Paul, Deron, and Roy, and didn’t need Marvin or Shelden. PLEASE!

By Don!

May 25, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

I like the idea of hiring Grant if he was the “I Told You So” voice around BK. But I have a hard time imagining he’s too much different.

As the saying goes, the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree.

With that having been said, all I need to know about the new GM is his thoughts on Woody. If he thinks he should stay — we’ve set the franchise back another three years.

Keeping Woody is as bad of a GM decision as drafting either of the Williams in their respective drafts.

Later,

Don!

By kwooden1

May 25, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

I thought BK’s last four moves were good and since one of those moves was drafting Horford he might get a job somewhere else. BK leaving and this hire really makes me concerned about this organization going back to making dumb decisions. The worst part about this summer is there are no really easy decisions, which gives this organization even more room to make bad decisions. If this GM just fires Woodson, it would go a long way in showing me that things have changed, anything short of that I will really be wondering. From what everyone says Gearson’s in charge, which means Woodson is staying and their going to over pay for both Josh’s. That’s not the end of the world, but the right moves (I don’t know what they are, but I’m still saying keep JS and trade Chills for picks) would make this team a consistant playoff contender for years.

GO HAWKS!!

By 1+2

May 25, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

This team needs to keep both Joshes. Why blowup a team that has mad potential. The issue with the team wasn’t the players but the sorry a$$ coaching. Once again, the Hawks are a young, long, athletic team that needs a steady hand at coaching. As we have seen, Woodson was not the answer. Think about it, in the playoffs, it wasn’t Woodson that had the Hawks winning… you don’t go from a 30% career winning percentage as a coach, and then all of sudden master coaching in the playoffs. The Hawks won three games because the players were stoked from the atmosphere at home.

Is there anyway the NBA can come in and take over the team like the MLB did with the Nationals? This maybe the only way this franchise is turned around. David Stern, please say you care!!!!!!!

By richbrave

May 26, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Nothin’ in D.C. about Jamison and the Hawks. Guess it was just that-a rumor.

By MannyT

May 26, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this

As a Hawks fan, I hope Chris Grant can be successful. Regardless of his past opinions, if he is learning along the way, that should make him wiser now than when he left.

Having worked his way up under BK & Babcock doesn’t do much for me, but he did enough to move up and later out to Cleveland which was probably a top tier job after they got LeBron.

A little googling pulls up some fun ties that highlight the power of networking - go Toreros. The assistant coaching balance of power may shift—if any of them stay.

Distracted thought-Not sure that extension under Woody is good or bad for assistants. Maybe you end up as interim head coach if things go badly. Maybe you get painted with similar brush of failure and it’s more difficult to get next job. Maybe you go now and get next job on high note of playoffs.

At some point during the summer, it would be nice if Grant laid out his views on what the team should look like & play like in the short term and long term. Because he hasn’t held the top GM seat, who knows if he can turn the ideas into actions.

I’m not sure what to make of this hire. Not excited, not mad, just curious.

Is the next GM more like young, forward thinking Al Davis, crazy old Al Davis, or Sisyphus-a bad, looping experience

CRAP, PAIN, or WAF…time will tell

By Mike

May 26, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

Any chance Grant brings someone from the Spurs or the Pistons with him onto his staff? Or do you think he will bring people from the Cavs and keep people from the Hawks?

By mykhalc

May 26, 2008 2:23 AM | Link to this

KEN, left you a post on the previous blog… ;o)

By mykhalc

May 26, 2008 2:36 AM | Link to this

i think we all realize GEARON JR is the GM!!! he’s just hirin’ his yes man!! his media man. the guy who WILL talk HAWKS ball to the public!! that’s all we waitin’ on at this point!! BUT i do hope i’m wrong!!??

By Raptors fan in TO

May 26, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

Haven’t even heard of this Mr. Grant before. But I would have thought the ownership would want to inject some fresh blood into the team management, rather than bring in a former assistant

By travis

May 26, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

let’s be honest, the ASG is a business. most businesses pay the employees as little as possible and hope for the best results. ASG makes MONEY whether the Hawks go 66-16 or 16-66, so they could careless who the GM is or who the coach is or who is drafted where.

The less money that ASG gives to a GM or coach or veteran players, the more they get to keep for themselves.

ASG is a business entity, whose primary interest is making money, now not winning championships. Maybe on down the road, as they have made money hand over fists, will they invest in gm’s, coaches, or veteran players…

By ray

May 26, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc, not trying to pour salt on the wound or anything, but I gotta go with Ken Strickland on the Bibby issue. As it is, Bibby will be wanting one last good-sized contract. He won’t get that here. He’s already looking in another direction, regardless of what he says (and he hasn’t said anything yet). Besides, where do most veteran pgs go when things begin to wind down a bit? To contenders…

Astro Joe, here we go again. I thought you didn’t like talking about the draft? Here’s another take on a perspective that you may or may not have overlooked: If you can’t fix one problem you fix another. We weren’t going to fix our defensive big/center problem in the draft. We should’ve then looked to fix our ball-distributor/second scoring option problem that we also clearly had (and still have).By the time the #5 pick came around, there were no bigs in the draft that could conceivably fix our defensive problems. Regular laymen like myself never saw the short and underachieving Sheldon as being one either. Yeah, that’s right: we remember him getting beat by taller and more athletic guys in college.

So, your question would proabably be “what other problem did you plan on fixing then?”. Scoring and distribution. You’re quick to point out how many games Roy missed his rookie year. Do we know why/how he was injured? Would the exact same thing have happened here? I notice there’s no mention of the fact that he only missed 6 games this past season. Here’s what stands out to me the most: 19.1 ppg, 4.7rpg, 5.8apg, 1.1spg, and 1.84 turnovers per game. Nearly identical numbers to those of Joe Johnson with better FG% (look it up) and a 3-to-1 assist to turnover ratio…in his second year, playing the role of pg half the time, and in the western conference. So yes, in hindsight, this guy was the right pick. We weren’t going to fix our post defense problems in the draft. But we could’ve had a fix for some of our other glaring problems. Joe could’ve played off the ball with Roy, because of Roy’s ability to initiate and distribute. Roy could provide a very solid, secondary scoring threat that cannot be left alone (he showed us this personally when we played against them…outplaying Joe Johnson), a scoring threat that we still don’t have. 74 games. Nearly 20 points a game (and he’s not the only scoring threat on his own team by far). Nearly 6 assists per, with less than 2 turnovers per game. Hindsight and all, tell me we couldn’t use that now. And tell me how many of those veteran point guards we’ve acquired(even including Bibby, who hasn’t had a full season with us…and won’t) have even collectively produced this much.

Speaking of injuries, just how well has the veteran Mike Bibby held up, eh? Do you expect better of him next season? I don’t. He will miss games. He only played 48 last year, which is more than your famed number of missed games by Roy in his rookie season. What a storied history we’ve had with veteran point guards. Lue, Johnson, Claxton, now Bibby. I don’t care how excited JJ was. We still don’t have the long-term solution in the backcourt with him. Not even now (and a lot of that has to do with Woody as well). And where’s that second legit scoring threat?

By Matt

May 26, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Ray,

I gotta step in about Roy, bro. My lady is a Portland native and a die-hard Blazers fan. Roy is good, but even she admits that the reason he gets so many shots is that the Blazers most certainly do not have many scoring threats besides him. McMillan used a Doc Rivers-esque rotation this year, going 9-10 guys deep every night. Roy and Aldridge were the only cats who got 30 minutes a game, and Roy was the only one who got 35.

And as for the comparison between his and JJ’s stats…just remember that down the stetch, Joe’s numbers exploded while Roy’s went down slightly. And Roy shot a higher percentage from the field in large part because McMillan’s offense meant that he almost never had ISO plays (which is where many if not most of JJ’s misses came from).

I’m in the camp that says Roy was not the answer. I’m not sure whether you’re suggested that Roy play the point while JJ played the 2, or have Roy at 2 and JJ at 3. Either way, it doesn’t solve our problem. Roy is not a natural PG, and we’ve all seen that you can’t turn a natural 2 (see JJ and Salim) into a point. And if he was a 2 or a 3, we’d have yet another player at those overloaded positions.

Roy likely would have come off the bench here, or else we would have been forced to play JJ at the 3 or 1. Roy’s skills notwithstanding, he would not have been a good fit here. He’s a very good player, but he’s not such a transcendent talent that he would have been able to get enough PT in our already overloaded perimeter to have made anywhere close to the impact he did in Portland.

I’m a big fan of Roy - my lady has made sure of that. But Atlanta was not the right place for him.

By ray

May 26, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Today’s News- a Departure From the Norm

Chris Grant is an unknown quanitity to us.

The ASG figures he’s a known quantity, as he has worked in the organization before. But how much homework did they really do? We don’t know him as a GM. Nobody does, because he hasn’t been one before. Because he’s new to the position, and many of us know how controlling the ASG likes to be, we have to wonder ahead of time just how much control he will have.

My guess is…not a whole lot. He’ll have to prove himself…if they let him. The leash will probably be short. However, this will also depend on just how much the ASG is interested in having a guy with his own visions and plans. And let’s hope that he truly does have his own visions and plans. And let’s hope that they are not delusional visions and plans.

The easy answer to this is that Michael Gearon Jr. is the real “GM” and will be running the show himself. Only one problem with that theory. Why pay a guy upwards of half a million dollars if you’re going to do the job you’re paying him to do? I mean, these guys don’t just hand out a paycheck for nothing. But again, until he proves to them that he can make them some money, instead of losing it, he’ll be on a bit of a short leash, I’m guessing. Remember, the GM is the guy who plays banker for the owners. It’s their money, but he’s playing with it.

I have to say that I’m not thrilled about who Grant has worked for…most of us aren’t. But let me put an Astro Joe spin on this, since he likes to compare NBA jobs (be it players, coaches, GMs) to the jobs of us regular working stiffs (sorry Joe, but you do like to do that): How would any of you like to be judged by who you work for?

No seriously. Would you think that’s fair? I mean, what if the last three guys you worked for were known as absolute morons. Imbeciles. Idiots. A*******holes. Retards. Or whatever derogatory term you prefer. Would you want people to assume that you are one of these things too, just because you worked for them at one time? And don’t give me any of that trash about choosing who you work for. Have you chosen a job you were interviewed for based on the reputation of the guy you’re looking to work for? Or were you looking for good, gainful employment that offered at the very least competitive/sufficient pay, and at least decent benefits? Be honest.

Ever been in a situation where you had a different opinion than your boss? What if it was about something that would affect his job, not yours? Try speaking up repeatedly in dissension and see where it gets you. If you did, then you probably already know where it got you…and it wasn’t a promotion. In the NBA business, interns don’t make it from video to assistant GM by arguing with their bosses. Assistant GMs don’t keep their jobs by voicing their dissent unless they are able to prove that they know what the hell they’re talking about. And GMs don’t make a living by listening to the wise words of video interns and assistant GMs. But assistant GMs learn by listening to the guys under them so that they can learn to manage what others do…all the way down to the lowest paid scout.

This is a business of egos. GMs have egos, only rivaled by those of the owners and team presidents. From what little I know, I’m betting that the job of the assistant GM is to lead and manage the scout teams. To gather the info and the numbers. To present the findings and opinion to the GM. The GM then takes all of this, evaluates it, and forms a plan of action (more than one if he’s smart….several in fact) for each situation and/or player. He then presents this to his boss(es), and begins making the phone calls.

The assistant GM is supposed to be learning from all this. And he should take two lessons from each success and failure of his boss: How to succeed…and how NOT to fail. Why? Because not everything is viewed as a success. Success is usually only mentioned when it’s a blockbuster move that gets everybody’s attention (i.e. Mitch Kupchak acquiring Pau Gasol). So what is an example of NOT failing? Most of the time, you’re not paying much attention to moves like this, nor do they get prolonged media exposure (Spurs get Kurt Thomas for Brent Barry and Francisco Elson). Sometimes they’re debatable, but NOT considered failures (Nuggets get Taurean Green from Blazers, for Von Wafer). Sometimes they’re moves that have been made to try and recoup from prior failed moves (like Paxson trading Ben Wallace to Cleveland for Brown, Simmons, Hughes, and Gooden).

Success (as defined), is clearly limited. NOT FAILING is the staple.

Chris Grant gets a chance to stop the studying, and start the application of what he should’ve learned. We’ll see what he can do…or can’t do.

But you know the deal on this blog: It’s either ROAST or TOAST.

By ray

May 26, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Matt, disagree. And I while I could try and make point after point to support my opinion (and perhaps you could too), I don’t think either of us will be swayed to the other’s side. May I suggest that we leave it alone. After all, this isn’t about wrong or right. And, Roy is not here, will not be coming here, and we’ve already had our draft bust for that round. Although, I am somewhat curious as to who was the answer, if Roy wasn’t (and Sheldon clearly is nobody’s answer to any damn thing…which some of us figured before he was drafted).

For what it’s worth, I always saw Joe Johnson as a natural 3 who is fully capable of playing the 2 (in other words, a swingman). But who cares what I think.

Meanwhile, Joe is still our only capable scorer. Bibby isn’t consistent (that we’ve seen as of yet). Marvin has one stable scoring move: the open mid-range jumper. Smith doesn’t do what he’s best at for a variety of reasons, and Horford is almost never utilized.

Okay, I changed my mind about discussing some of these points:

Joe’s production went up at the end of the season because Bibby came on for a while as a true shooting/scoring threat and primary ball-handler. Roy remained as the primary ball-handler and primary scorer (with the exception of his low post counterpart-Aldridge). So if you ask me, Roy was doing pretty much the same as Joe when put in the same situation (playing the most minutes and playing the part of scoring option #1). That alone speaks to his talent. And you’re right about the lack of ISO plays. But tell me: is that only because of McMillan, or also because he had teammates that were effective finishers/scorers? I mean, those 6 assists per game weren’t passes that he threw to himself…

If you ask me, Roy is a lot like Joe Johnson, but not quite as big. His numbers suggest that he’s about as good as Joe is (or will be). Don’t know how that translates talent-wise to YOU, but it impresses ME. I do know that nobody on our roster was able to handle him when we played them. In fact, we lost that game due in large part to his 4th quarter heroics. It wasn’t pretty to see…not if you’re a Hawks fan.

By ray

May 26, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Matt, one other question, and I swear I’m not trying to be a smart-a$$. What overloaded perimeter were you talking about? When we drafted Sheldon, our “perimeter” players consisted of Lue, Claxton, JJ, Salim, and Ivey. I don’t count Marvin and JChill as perimeter guys. Marvin is a mid-range jumpshot guy when he’s open, and Chill is not a shooter. Salim doesn’t play, and can’t seem to get his shot off much in our “offense” anyway, much less create for others. Ivey? Nope. Lue? Maybe, but not a floor general who is capable of creating for himself and others. I won’t even speak to Claxton. That leaves JJ.

Flash forward to now…and conditions have improved…to a point. Again, Claxton is a moot point. Acie is effectively neutered by Woodson. Richardson doesn’t play any more than Salim, and West is not a shooter. Bibby is the only true addition. So far, he has shown that he can shoot from anywhere if he’s actually on his game. Just don’t put him up against any young, energetic point guards…

By ray

May 26, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Matt, we can only pray for a guy like McMillan. Not only is his offense and defense better than Woody’s (ya think..), but his accountability is incredible. Three specific guys assigned to each member of the coaching staff? Wow. Doc clued me in on how things are done up there. I’m probably raising the hackles on Astro Joe, but I’m impressed by their organization. Do you know what they did to bring Travis Outlaw along? The kid has a learning disorder, but look at him play. Sure wish our coaching staff had that kind of dedication and took that kind of care of our guys.

By mykhalc

May 26, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, KEN, ok. we agree to disagree. ‘cause i ain’t where you cats are at and vice versa.

but i ask the question, what does BIBBY lookin’ for a last big contract have to do with him playin’ out this year for the HAWKS?? what is the difference in expirin’ contracts for AJ, LUE, and LW and the expirin’ contract of BIBBY’s?? i am CLEARLY NOT followin’ the logic here??

and even less followin’ the logic is you cats that are b$tchin’ about BIBBY bein’ hurt last year but are sooooooooo ready to sign FORD whose is one hard foul from bein’ inactive for long stretches?? (and that’s no offense to FORD nor ‘Raptors fan in TO’) but FORD has some serious question marks about his durability whereas BIBBY does not…no matter how you try to spin it!!

and KEN, i hope you read my response to your POR trade. i just don’t get where some of these things come from!!???!! well, on second thought, i get where they come from. i just don’t see how anyone could even think they were doable!!!???

all this BIBBY nonsense is sendin’ me to the beach to cool off!!!LOL enjoy your holiday fellas!!!

By mykhalc

May 26, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Just don’t put him up against any young, energetic point guards………when he’s injured!!! same as BILLUPS is experiencin’ now!!! or is BILLUPS on the downside of his career too??? you cats are killin’ me!! where’s my beach stuff???LOL

By ray

May 26, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc, it’s no big deal. But the idea is that Bibby’s expiring contract is attractive to other teams. Why not get something for him while we can, rather than let him walk for nothing, and then go looking for something after the season is over? After all, last time we went looking to sign a pg, we ended up with Claxton. I understand your logic of his money coming off the books when the season is over. But what you’re not seeing is the logic of paying him 14.5 million this coming season (and how healthy will he be, what kind of production will we get out of him) when we haven’t even signed the Joshes…who will no doubt command a LOT more money than they were getting paid this past season.

The difference in expiring contracts of the other guys we got rid of is their intrinsic player values. None of those guys was worth much individually. Bibby has some talent and ability, and has a big expiring contract. But we should take advantage of that now, to get things we can use for longer periods of time…not wait until season’s end (having spent a larger payroll on what, another sub-.500 season?)where we will have more money…to do what? Well, it’s just an opinion.

What’s your opinion on how we proceed? I mean, we could keep Bibby (and not keep one of the Joshes, or either of them) for a year, but what would it gain us? I really don’t think the ASG will increase the payroll that much for the same team. But what do I know? But seriously, keep Bibby, then do what with all the “extra money” when he walks away from us? Who do we sign next?

I have to agree with you on Ford. He is an injury risk, plain and simple. And the last time I mentioned his name, I mentioned my paranoia about his injury-prone self. So don’t come after me on that subject….it ain’t me who is dying to get him here.

By doc

May 26, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

MATT what was known about roy and what he does that is different than jj is that he can penetrate and give up the ball without creating to’s or trash shots that have no chance at success. he makes the guys around him better and so he doesnt have to balloon his stats at the end of games or take it over because he has the ability to go into traffic and create. i dont think you are giving him his due on that one and he is just a second year pro. he is so very smooth with the ball and efficient making it look easier than it really is. that is what was on the draft scout reports and what was needed here desperately.

yes, i agree whole heartedly that he would not have flourished in woody’s offense but that can be said for almost any player out there. as far as aldridge and roy and their development, their coach takes a personal interest in their development and were two of the three players on the squad that he is personally responsible for coaching up. i tend to think he brings stuff though that is similar to horford but at a different position and might have just pushed through what woody throws out there to become a player early in his career in spite of woody.

By Malone

May 26, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

What if Speedy had been healthy?

By Matt

May 26, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Ray,

I wrote a long post that got deleted. I’ll try to recreate it.

I was using the term “perimeter players” to refer to players who start most offensive sets on the perimeter, not “guys who can shoot 3-pointers,” which is how you seemed to interpret it. The point was we already had a glut at the 2 and 3 spots.

And we KNOW that neither Roy or JJ was the answer at the point. We already tried the “take a scoring guard with good passing skills and make him into a PG” experiment twice with Salim and JJ. It doesn’t work. So then we’d have two good players in Roy and JJ with similar (though obviously not identical) skill sets who play the same position, and Childress and Marvin also need to get minutes at the 2 or 3 spots. So where does that leave Roy?

As for doc’s statement that JJ can’t penetrate…I’m amazed that people still think that JJ is not a good scorer or passer off the dribble. JJ clearly CAN make things happen in the lane; in fact, he’s damned good at it (just watch from 1:20 on for 3 good examples). How many times does he have to get in the lane and hit tough shots, or drive and hit a wide-open Marvin for a jumper or Horford for a dunk before people start giving him credit for being good off the dribble? The fact that Woodson and D’Antoni fell in love with his jumper and never used offensive sets that encouraged him to dribble penetrate is NOT JJ’s fault. I would very, very much dispute the idea that Roy is a better drive and dish player than JJ. When JJ does drive to the hole, he’s certainly no less dangerous than Roy in terms of scoring or getting his teammates easy buckets. At most, Roy is a little better off the dribble than JJ. In the end, he and JJ have VERY similar skill sets.

As for JJ playing SF…he’s 6’7. He’s strong, but he’d get posted up a lot on D, and post defense is most definitely not his strong suit. His talents are at their best use when he’s playing the 2, I think. Anyway, that still doesn’t solve the “how do we play 4 guys at 2 positions” problem. I know all of y’all will say “Trade Marvin!” but since we know THAT wasn’t going to happen after just 1 year, it shows that all of this discussion of what we should have done is tainted by hindsight bias and the pain of seeing the guy who was picked 1 spot after Shelden winning ROTY - regardless of whether he actually would have been a good fit here.

I won’t argue that drafting Shelden wasn’t a huge mistake. It was. But the answer was trading up for Aldridge, or else trading down or out to get a big or a point. It was NOT to draft ANOTHER guy who plays at the 2 or 3.

By ray

May 26, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

Matt,

JJ is a good penetrator and creator. I’d also agree that Roy is a little better off the dribble. And I have said before that he and JJ have very similar skill sets, so we’re also agreed there. But I think you mistake me in thinking that I’d want either player as a pure point guard. How many teams have a pure point guard right now anyway? As long as you have two guards who can feed off of each other, you’re okay. One can take more of the ball-handling duties while the other does more of the scoring. Or they can just split the scoring. Baron Davis and Monta Ellis do it just fine. And Baron Davis is anything but a pure point guard. He’s a score-first guard. So is Ellis. Which just goes to show that an effective offense doesn’t need a pure pg, just a “lead” guard. Which is what Acie Law is…if Woody will let him be, that is.

You’re right in the fact that neither JJ nor Roy is the solution at the point guard position…alone. It’s actually working for Roy as the primary ball-handler, though isn’t it? You’re overlooking something: there was a reason that JJ at pg didn’t work in Atlanta. It’s not just that he’s a 2/3 and not a pg. It’s that this involved taking our best scorer and making him the ball-handler. In fact, JJ was pretty much (and still is) our only scorer. Joe plays so much better off the ball than he does on it. As the primary ball-handler, he was responsible for initiating the offense. The problem is that he was the offense, particularly in Woody’s “scheme” if you want to even call it that. So, JJ’s getting picked up at half court with the ball in his hands. Who was he going to pass it to? Marvin? Josh? Zaza?

Roy doesn’t have this problem. Aldridge can score when he wants, for one thing. Portland has options in McMillan’s offense. Roy can pass it to teammates for outside shots. Portland had SIX guys this past season who were a legit 34% or better from 3-point range, all of whom hit 65 or more 3-pointers (with the exception of Outlaw, who hit 40). This is why Roy is succeeding as primary ball-handler….whereas JJ could not. Roy has the offensive options. JJ never has. Roy could do just as well in the backcourt with JJ. They’d feed off of each other, and nobody could stop them (too big, too skilled). Both can create for themselves and their teammates, but neither would have to do it all by themselves, which is why it would work. JJ at point was destined to fail because we never had the necessary pieces in the first place. And yet, JJ was able to do it in Phoenix when Nash was out. Again, necessary pieces in place.

But here’s the kicker: JJ doesn’t like to do it, whereas Roy doesn’t mind doing it. It would’ve worked, I think.

The Bulls operated a lot without a point guard as the primary ball-handler. B.J. Armstrong? Jim Paxson? Steve Kerr? Ron Harper? Those guys were there to do a few simple things: and ball distribution/offense initiation wasn’t one of them. They were there to hit the open shot when Jordan and Pippen drew the defense. They were there to make the extra pass and play defense. Jordan and Pippen did all the offense initiation and ball distribution.

Here’s where I have to say you just flat-out got me pegged wrong: I don’t think of perimeter players as just 3 point shooters. I think of them as guys who can effectively defend and score from the perimeter. Like I said, point to who we’ve had in the last 4 years that qualifies on both counts. None of the guys we’ve had compare to Roy outside of JJ. Bibby is the only other, and technically…he just got here. And his perimeter defense sucks. Roy is a perimeter player. What Billy stockpiled wasn’t effective perimeter guys, or even 2-guards. I’d say the only guy he got who can play somewhat effectively there is Childress, and he’s limited in that capacity. No, what Billy collected was forwards….mostly small forward types. That includes JJ. And Marvin, JChill, Smoove, Donta Smith, Diaw, etc. Then there’s the two PFs: Horford and Sheldon.

Roy wouldn’t have had issues getting minutes, because NONE of those guys can score like he does, or distribute the ball like he does…and JJ would’ve loved having a guy do that part for him. Even after we took JJ back out of the pg position, what happened? Because of one broken-down pg after another, in addition to the lack of a legit second or third option , JJ ended up with the ball in his hands damn near all the time ANYWAY!

As for JJ being 6’7”…how is that a problem at SF? JJ weighs in at a solid 230. He’s strong (like you said). It’s not like he’d get posted up effectively all the time. Paul Pierce tried it (he’s 6’7” too)…to no avail. In fact, JJ shut him down. But if 6’7” is a problem…then we better start sending memos to Josh Howard, Ron Artest, Gerald Wallace, and Shawn Marion for starters. And all those 6’8” guys like Carmelo Anthony? What if one more inch is just not enough? Okay, I’m just messin’ with ya, but seriously. JJ can play the three just fine. He’s done it before. I do agree that on this team at least, he’s better off at the 2. In fact, he may be better at the 2 on most teams.

As for trading up for Aldridge, that was as likely to happen as Marvin being traded after just one year. I agree that the attempt should’ve been made, but then who’s to say that we didn’t try it? Nobody was going to trade down that far, the draft wasn’t deep enough. Portland and Chicago had needs that lay elsewhere. Of course, Paxson was too stupid to hold onto Aldridge because he coveted Ty Thomas. Idiot….worse than Billy any day…and with less excuse. Still, he can recoup some of that this year.

By ray

May 26, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Matt, I swore to myself I wasn’t going to argue with you. You dragged me back into it, you dastardly, scurvy knave, you…

By MannyT

May 26, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

Technical difficulties kept me out of this scrum earlier.

myk I got your back on this Bibby thing. Your post from prior blog was right. We need to move forward (even if small steps) this season. If the ASG won’t commit to the cash to resign the Joshes one of them may go in a sign & trade to get us better assets. Either Ken or Astro Joe mentioned this a few days ago. If we have to give up a RFA to get better (in order—serious center, strong 3 pt shooter, better PG), so be it. Get better and stop playing the Sisyphus game (mentioned earlier)—push the team up the hill, let it roll back down, repeat.)

Unless someone is offering 2 players that we can use now, you keep Bibby. He hasn’t been healthy and hasn’t played that much with the Hawks. AC is not ready to be the starter. Not his fault that he didn’t get minutes, look at the Basketball Accelerated Destruction (BAD) coaching plan he was on. Ask Salim how it works.

ray,Ken If you trade Bibby you are not likely to get a better PG and another asset for him. The salaries coming from the other team will need to be in the neighborhood of $11 Million, so it’s not cost effective unless you are getting multiple players back.

If you get back one good PG, you have likely wasted the AC draft pick. If you get a center, you either get an Anthony Johnson deal to find a starter or Woody implodes watching AC play w/o a net. That won’t happen so welcome the next phase of JJ-Hawks PG.

Keeping Bibby allows you to have a season of better PG play than you got this year AND a desirable cap slot in the 2009 summer for a free agent. If we can actually get to a winning record, a free agent might come here to make the team better (versus stealing money like Eric Dampier tried to do.)

A CLEARANCE SALE sign around Bibby will only devalue him on the trade market. If someone comes to us with a good offer for Bibby, we look at it and make a decision…otherwise we need him at PG at least for the first month or two of the season where Woody should have a winning record or a replacement.

Don’t back into PAIN, move forward to good CRAP!

By MannyT

May 26, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Matt,ray I’m not getting into your rear view mirror draft discussion.

I will share the 2006 draft boardand say, there were not a ton of good players in that draft. Aside from what Portland got, the rest of the draft board was somewhat uh…Sheldenish.

Malone I wish Speedy had been healthy. As often as this blog universe likes to throw him under the bus, a healthy Speedy is similar to a short armed…Rondo. Not a great offensive threat, but a very good on ball defender.

myk Every time one of these magic beans trades happens (Pau Gasol) it emboldens folks to think up trades that they would not really do if they were in the other city…and yes we will trade Bibby for Arenas and the Wiz’s first rounder if his boy Jamison doesn’t resign ;-)

No dog in this fight so I’ll WAF.

By mykhalc

May 26, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

MannyT, thanks bro. between your very on-point post about BIBBY and me takin’ a drive to POINT REYES BEACH, i think i’m good again!!LOL

i actually gave some thought to Ray and Ken’s points. Ray’s points, i can handle a bit better than Ken’s logic!!LOL (sorry Ken) the only thing i could come up with on the whole ‘get somethin’ for BIBBY now’ is that you truly DO NOT feel there is ANY chance that the HAWKS could sign ANY DESIRED FA at the end of the ‘08-‘09 season to put BIBBY’s cap space to good use. you’d have to feel that the HAWKS are such an undesirable team that we couldn’t land ANYONE!!!???

well i feel just the opposite. i think the backcourt of BIBBY and ACIE for a year makes the team that much better goin’ into ‘09-‘10 thus that more attractive to ‘desirable’ FAs…one of them a likely backup PG to ACIE!! just my 2cents but it would be MY approach tho. ‘cause the more pieces i have in place ‘already’, the better IMHO!! and a backcourt of BIBBY and ACIE for 1yr makes me feel damn good!!! and even more so if the BRAINLESS TRUST is still at the helm!!!

By mykhalc

May 26, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

more to add…BIG RAY, you asked what would i do?? just off the top, i’d trade MARVIN for pick(s). i’d sign PIETRUS as one of my SF/SG. he gives up some length but brings better defense, more range on his shot, and is a better athlete and still young!! in addition, his salary was very comparable to MARVIN’s this past season. so i’d be willing to do a 3 yr deal. he’d be my ‘ZAZA find’ for this off-season!!!

sign both JOSHes!! keep ‘em unless you get some immediate help in return as MannyT said.

then i’d go after Azuibuike to replace SALIM and sign PO’BRYANT. sign the AUSSIE, ANDERSON!!

so i’d have BIBBY, JJ, JS, AH, and 5 (POB, ANDERSON, ZAZA. then off the bench i got…ACIE, PIETRUS, CHILS, Azuibuike, SOLO and 2 of 3 (POB, ZAZA, ANDERSON)

PGs (BIBBY, ACIE, Azuibuike, CHILS)

SGs (JJ, PIETRUS, Azuibuike, CHILS)

SFs (SMOOVE, CHILS, PIETRUS, JJ)

PFs (AH, ANDERSON, SOLO, ZAZA)

Cs (POB, AH, ANDERSON, ZAZA, SOLO)

** the 5 rotation would have to work itself out. so i do NOT know what the order would be before camp!!! but if HORFORD still proves to be the better 5 then i’d go with BIBBY, JJ, PIETRUS, SMOOVE, and AH. and yeah, i know i’m smaller than last year but i’m better defensively and got more shot range on the floor!!!

then i’d address JRICH, MARIO, and SPEEDY. and i won’t give them much thought IF i could hit the floor with this team!!!

anyway, this is my off-the-top, kinda on the cheap, HAWKS/’GSW lite’ ‘08-‘09 roster!!!LOL and no i have not looked at the salaries!!! now feel free to rip it to shreads!!!LOL

By you

May 26, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

In other words, you got scooped by Mark Bradley. How’s that feel?

By Matt

May 26, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Please, for the love of God, stop writing out trade proposals that include the packaging of Marvin. Hasn’t anyone noticed that NBA teams NEVER trade players going into the last year of their rookie contract? That’s because those players are so damned cheap. Even if Marvin’s scoring average went down next year, he’d still be a bargain in terms of his production per dollar.

Not to mention the fact that Nique, Gearon, and co. still seem to believe that Marvin is on the verge of a serious breakout year.

We certainly would not trade Marvin for picks. The only way I could see Marvin going somewhere is if we packaged him with Bibby or a sign-and-trade Smoove for an All-Star quality player. Of course, the odds of another NBA giving up a star player for Marvin and Bibby or Marvin and Smoove are next to nil.

So yeah, Marvin’s staying here next year. Deal.

By Matt

May 26, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

(btw mykhalc, you just bore the brunt of my anger towards many other people who basically suggested that we trade Marvin for a string of a beads. NOTHING personal against you - I swear!)

By jarvis

May 26, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

Yay! More of the same! How exciting!

By mykhalc

May 26, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Matt, LOL and didn’t take it personally. you’ll always have that ‘special’ post in my mind regardin’ your outlook on the lack of need to know how to close out games!!!LOL

but if you don’t think that a team would not be willing to give up a #15 pick for MARVIN, if they felt like he was THEIR answer to THEIR VOID then we’ll just agree to disagree man!!! and MARVIN’s qualifyin’ offer after this season is over $7mil. MARVIN ain’t gonna be cheap bro!!! and if i can improve and get younger with a draft pick now or down the road then it works for me. ‘cause i’d be worried about havin’ my club set up for HORFORD’s new contract in a couple of years more so than i am worried about MARVIN’s!!! and unlike you, i HAVE found the cat that i like better than MARVIN…PIETRUS!!! so if i can get a top #15, pay PIETRUS on a lesser scale than i would HAVE TO pay MARVIN then i’m happy as hell!!

now as far as players never bein’ traded in the last year of their rookie contract you might be right. not somethin’ i’ve followed. but JJ was traded in year #1 of his rookie contract. so it can happen!! but i did say this was off-the-cuff!!!

i think your problem is you believe MARVIN is IT whereas i DO NOT!!! guess it’s like my feelings about BIBBY and others have a problem!!! but what i DID present is a VERY DOABLE trade and team despite what you may think!!!!

By MannyT

May 26, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

mykhalc The one thing that makes me LOL about your post is this roster summary. Raid the Warriors and roll into next season. Unless there is a buddy-buddy thing between the new GM and the GSW, I would be surprised if we could raid one team for that many guys in one season.

If Woody doesn’t commit to the run, this is the quickest way to get the entire team to bail on him.

Matt like I said to myk at 8:06PM blame it on these magic bean trades (Gasol) Everyone wants to throw an easy deal out there. If I were a good team that has 20ish draft picks, I’d give you a 1st round pick for Marvin. Look at the guys that get drafted in the 20s…most are not close to him.

I will say these days you can trade Marvin for an all star…wait for the smoke to clear…grab a few bags of chips and look who appears…2007 all star Josh (career going up in smoke?) Howard.

If we want respectable free agent love in 2009 we have to have a winning record this next season. You notice we were not in the mix for any of those guys that were late season additions this year. We couldn’t get TLue to come back. Until your team looks like a pretty girl at the party, no one decent will ask her to dance…and we don’t need to hook up with any Dateline NBC predator free agents.

We need a free agent that would be on the John Mayer/Derek Jeter hot lists.

Team on the rise seeks good, hot CRAP free agent for summer 2009. If you don’t turn heads, you need not apply.

By Matt

May 26, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Honestly, I don’t think Marvin is on the verge of anything except a repeat of last year - solid, but not great numbers, and another year of people talking about how stupid the Hawks were to pick him instead of trading down to get Paul or Deron.

That doesn’t mean that ASG will ever, ever trade him though. I’ll eat coconut if they do. And I HATE coconut.

By SalimFan

May 26, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Matt, Salim has good floor vision he just doesn’t have the best handle on the ball. Besides why would you make him a PG when he’s more effective scoring? Allen Iveserson??? Last time I checked he was 6’1. With a willing coach I beleive he would be a great PG.

Also If this sounds rude don’t take it personally but what the hell do you know about court vision huh? If you’ve ever watched salim dish out an assist the’re all Nasteh so WTF are you talking about? Take that philadelpha game at the end of the season. That was like his first time playing in forever and he dishes out like 6 assists in 5 minuets. He gets no PT so who are you to say that? He never plays PG he plays the SG position he comes in anyway. He’s not allowed to really show off his “Court Vision” b/c he’s yanked too fast.

Salim is a Guard period. Just put him on the floor and you get buckets.

Theres also a difference between court “vision” and Court “Awareness”

His vision (ability to make crafty pases) is good. His Awareness, on the offensive in is good BUT salim may pass up on an open teammate just to get himself going (which can stall the offensive momentum of the team). Of course he doesn’t think he’ll miss, but it’s hard when you are put under pressure to be “Instant Offense” particularly when the hawks are in trouble. Espicially when you know you only have three minuets to get yourself going of you’ll be demoted back to the bench for the rest of the game.

The same goes for Acie. Some Articles are calling him a bust. Its completely BS when you figure how much time they get on the court. AND YOU KNOW THAT. So why sit here and bash salim when he only played in 30 games this season??? And that has nothing to with his talent.

By mykhalc

May 26, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

MannyT, LOL. but what’s even funnier is look at how many cats are comin’ off the GSW roster this summer!!???!!! it’s a great time for pickin’!!!LOL

now i’m NOT sayin’ we CAN sign ‘em. but at least i have presented cats that are available, salary friendly, and can ball!!! better than goin’ after ALDRIDGE!! (sorry Ken, i had too)LOL

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

MannyT, i do as much dreamin’ as i can without many/any thoughts to WOODSON’s effect on my ‘08-‘09 team!!! but you’re right, they’d bail…QUICK!!!!LOL

By JL

May 27, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

Interesting as it may be - I hear that others thought to be under consideration don’t want the job as it is nothing more than being the “fall guy” for the ownership’s decisions. This is not the spot to be if you want to further your career in this position in the NBA. If Grant is the next GM - the future of the franchise is in question.

By femhawkfan

May 27, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

I had a lot of time on my hands and I read every single comment. I can honestly say that I have never been so confused in my life. I have never seen so many trade proposals. With some of those crazy proposals I was reading, I was just waiting for some dummy to say that we should trade JJ.

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

SalimFan, i do hope SALIM finds his groove with another team man. but what SALIM shoulda done was be FULLY aware of where he was gonna fall in the eyes of NBA teams. he has PG size and he really shoulda been BETTER prepared to be that kinda player. his lack of preparation for the pros shows!! BARBOSA is the only cat i know, of his size, that is allowed to play his natural 2 position. hopefully SALIM will get that lucky and finds a team that uses his strengths!!!

By KB

May 27, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

I am in sales and I am positive that if my sales pecentage was about 33% like Woodson’s is, I would have been fired a long time ago. First of all, the new GM’S first decision will be to fire Mike and find a coach that can take this team to the next level. Why not hire Steve Smith! He knows that team backwards and forwards, and many former players have proven to be excellent GM’S. Etc: Joe Dumars and Danny Ainge!

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

He’s always been aware he just needs an oppourtunity and a ball club that belives in his abilities

Even Deron Williams was in Jerry Sloans doghouse. This was also CP3’s breakout season. It takes time…if anyone is willing to give it.

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this

SalimFan, man you are a true fan of SALIM’s game, no doubt!!! way to dig up a pertinent video bro!!! NICE!!! and you are right about CP3 and DERON. it’ll be interestin’ to see where SALIM lands!!!

By Harry Hawk

May 27, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this

Salim is another Eddie House, which isn’t a bad thing. I just don’t think he’s ever going to get the opportunity to get buckets in Atlanta. Not with Woodson as coach, anyway. How else to explain why the guy hasn’t been used?

Salim will probably go to another crummy team (yeah, we’re crummy…as long as Woodson is the coach), get minutes, put up some numbers for a season or two, and end up on a top playoff team as a pure shooter off the bench. If we’re lucky, SalimFan will be laughing maniacally as Salim burns us in a playoff series…and Woody (now head coach, GM, team president, and part owner) will just have to eat it.

And I will let loose a mournful cry.

By cp

May 27, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this

I like Pietrus. I think we have been bringing up him for the last two years. Very athletic, 3 point range, nice d. I think he has to work on his ball handling some. The Warriors fans say he dribbles a lot of balls off his feet or something (where have we seen that). I read that Miami really wants him so it might be hard to aquire him. Hopefuly Marvin takes the Josh Smith approach this summer and bust his azz trying to improve his game. Marvin needs to add the 3 pointer to his game, work on his handles, and bulk up some so he can finish better. I just hate to see a guy with talent not push himself to become better. Marvin should eat and sleep basketball this summer.

By Matt

May 27, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this

Alright, SalimFan. Gotta respect any true fan. But I’ll bet you $100 that Salim never cracks 14ppg once during his NBA career.

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 1:43 AM | Link to this

Matt, I hope you’re wrong about that but if you’re right i’ll fork over the cash lol…. Watch now salim is gonaa sign with a European Team this summer and I get screwed lol.

Mykchalic and Harry Hawk, I too hope he finds success with another team. It’ll happen as long as he stays focused and his agent gets him in the right situation. Hopefully he’ll have 14ppg success hehehe.

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 2:05 AM | Link to this

CP, I really think trading marvin for Bill Walker on draft day would be the right way to go, regardles of marvin’s improvement. From the looks of things Bill is going to be a late firs-round pick.

This is if we do Deal marvin. I’m a marvin supporter so if he stays i’m happy but if we deal him I defenetly think if should be on draft day for Either a Big or Bill Walker.

BUT The draft camps and team workouts haven’t even started yet and both Kevin Love and Bill Walker have dropped serious weight and are looking really good right now. So the hawks might not even have a shot if these guys suprise a lot of people like they say they will.

By Nikki

May 27, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

Well, so much for taking momentum in to the next season. I can’t trust a guy who learned under Knight and Babcock. What’s so great going on in Cleveland?! Hey Hawks owners! Cleveland has yet to put any talent around Lebron James and this is the guy who’s supposed to come here and right the ship?! I don’t think so!

By Snow

May 27, 2008 2:38 AM | Link to this

…Since I think we should focus on fixing the team for the 2008/2009 season and capitilize off of the playoff excitement (by the way, this team is not that far away from being a pretty good team for awhile). How about a Kirk Heinrich for Marvin Williams trade?…Of course we would have to add a couple a pieces around it to make it work…thoughts?…We NEED A POINT GUARD (bigtime!!!) AND A BIG BODY VETERAN TO GO ALONG SIDE AL…and a shooter…Maybe (and I can’t believe I am saying this, well here it goes, maybe someone like Zack Randolph…smile)…or a Kendrick Perkins like player…when I say shooter, I mean someone like Gibson in Cleveland or even a JJ Riddick (what would the Hawks have looked like in the Boston series if they had someone who could make outside shots…like a Kerr or Paxson, from back in the day?)…Just some random ideas at 2:00 in the morning (smile) from a Hawk fan.

That is where the Hawks need help (NOT COACHING, WOODY AND THE STAFF ARE FINE, TRUST ME. HELL HE LEARNED FROM COACH KNIGHT AND LARRY BROWN C’MON, NUFF SAID)and they work endlessly.

It is player acquisition where they need help. And assessing what they really need instead of what they think they need…please offer them some player acquisiton help in this blog given they need a point guard, a big body to go alongside Al and a “veteran” shooter…and I think the person they should trade is Marvin not either of the Josh’s unless you are made an offer you can’t refuse for Smith…

Finally (I am making a point about talent aquisition and how GM’s decisions are important), Dumars gets alot of credit for being a great GM in Detroit (and rightfully so)however what would Detroit had been without the Rasheed Wallace deal at the trading deadline several years ago? (and I don’t have any proof however I think Larry Brown was the one who made that trade happen NOT Joe…and if anyone knows the answer to that please straighten me out)…and more important what would they be like today if they would have taken anyone else in the top five but Darko (others in that years draft top 5…Wade, Bosh, and Melo…and Detroit had the #2 pick…of course LeBron went #1…PLEASE!!!)…So we are not the only one who has screwed up draft picks before. That front office needs ideas and suggestions from this site for personnel help and less Mike Woodson bashing…Good Night (smile)…

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 2:52 AM | Link to this

Woodson still sucks….

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 3:01 AM | Link to this

well one thing for sure (ok almost for sure) PIETRUS will NOT play for GSW if NELLIE’s there!!! big fallout this year with PT and position. NELLIE gave a lot of his time to Azuibuike and ended up playin’ PIETRUS outta position at the 4 quite a bit!!! stupid move by NELLIE IMHO!!!

cp, i watched the majority of GSW games and i never saw a handles problem with PIETRUS. cat can ball…PERIOD!!!

By ray

May 27, 2008 3:06 AM | Link to this

Myk, you know I gotta give you respect for sticking to your guns. Really. I’m not taking my side of the argument as straight-up hardliner because I don’t like Bibby, so don’t think that. I like Bibby. I just am fairly sure he won’t stay. So, I’d like to get the replacement situation figured out already.

The problem isn’t nearly so much Bibby as it is the money. Trust me, if this dude can revert to the form he had prior to last season (say from ‘03/’04 to ‘06/’07), then he’s more than worth keeping around (I’ll take 17+ppg and 5 + apg thankyou very much). Of course, he was also the featured shooter back then. He wouldn’t be here, more likely the second option. However, the minute you committ to 14.5 million, you’ve just said no to one of the Joshes. However, I too believe that if you this must be done if the result is to get better.

I would definitely not condone trading Bibby just for the hell of it. Trading him comes with a couple of other moves to say the least. As you say, we either get another pg who’s worth having, or we get something else we can use. It can be done, but the question is WILL it be done properly (if it’s done)? Otherwise, move #2 is to move somebody else for a good pg. I still see Acie as the very possible future pg….if somebody can coach him up. With Woody here, I just don’t know about all that.

My main thing is that I don’t want us to pay Bibby for a full year, sacrifice one of the Joshes for something we don’t need, watch the team NOT get better, and then watch Bibby walk away…with us back at ground zero. It’s possible that Bibby stays and we get better. I don’t know. I’m kinda past all the “trade Bibby” talk. I like the guy, but I am not about to get attached. We’ll just wait and see what happens. One thing is for certain. If he’s in good health and we can get a better offensive deal going, he’ll be a huge help, especially for JJ.

Also, I like your ideas as far as Marvin, Pietrus, Azubuike, etc. I too think that GS is ripe for the picking! Only thing is that we don’t need to get smaller if Woody is around. We have to add some size in the post somewhere, whether it’s on the bench or in the starting lineup. I’m still not sold on the frontcourt comprised of nothing more than Smoove and big Al. But what do I know…

By cp

May 27, 2008 3:19 AM | Link to this

mykhalc I’ll take ya word for it. I only saw a few Warriors games so I was going by what some said on a message board. What are Peitrus cons then. I like his range and athletic ability. He seems to have nice defense as well so what are his weaknesses?

Salim fan I like Bill Walker. He just has to work on his ball handling and cut down on the turnovers. I think he is a guy who will rise and be a late first rounder. I guess it just depends on what the teams in the lower half of the draft do. I wouldnt mind Walker but he might take some time to develop but then again he might be able to come in and contribute just depending on if Mr Potato head is still the coach (all signs say yes so Walker will need time)

By ray

May 27, 2008 3:23 AM | Link to this

Matt, you never know in this business. Marvin is a pick (and favorite) from the Billy era. We really don’t know just how married to him this organization is…or when that might change. We’ll see, though. So far, he’s not showing us that he’s worth keeping over some other players…but then I always have my Woodson caveat as a source of at least partial blame for any player’s performance on this roster, LOL!

MannyT, I agree wholeheartedly with one particular thing you said: if we have to give up an RFA to get better, then we better get to it and stop playing games.

On the subject of Speedy, that’s just the problem. He hasn’t been healthy for us worth a damn. Talking about what he can do when healthy has been nothing but hazy pipe dreams nearly the whole time. It sucks, and I’m sure it sucks for him too (although he’s also still being paid handsomely, despite the fact that he can’t work…that is never bad in the job situation). I’m sure the Nuggets feel the same way about Nene….

As to Bibby, I’m kinda done talking about that. I hope that if he sticks around for the year (and I truly believe that’s all he’ll stick around for), he helps a hell of a lot more than he hurts. I think he definitely will if he can stay healthy and Woody can stay away from the gameplan. Like I said to Myk, his ‘03-‘04 to ‘06-‘07 form would be a hell of an addition.

SalimFan, here’s what I think: at least as long as Woody’s here, Salim has no decent future on this team. I have seen him as an Eddie House type of player. But there’s no way he develops into that kind of guy under Woody. No way. So, his best years are most likely both ahead of him…and elsewhere. I have to agree with Matt and say that I don’t think he’s as potent as you make him out to be, but then…he’s only played in the doghouse for Woodson, which is no place to play. I say he does better in somebody else’s system. How well he does is anybody’s guess at the moment…

By ray

May 27, 2008 3:28 AM | Link to this

CP, no offense but I had to laugh when you mentioned that Bill Walker just has to work on his ball handling and cut down on his turnovers. It seems to me that we already have a guy just like that…who’s incredibly athletic and versatile..

I think Walker is too much of a project for us to be able to use him. Like you said, with Woody around…

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 3:36 AM | Link to this

If the BASG is really comitted to this team then they’ll sighn the joshes last after everyone else. If they have the ball to go over the cap. I mean cause with our own players we can go over the cap to resign them but what about free agents?

We might have to. especially if smoove gets a rediculous offer.

By ray

May 27, 2008 3:46 AM | Link to this

He will.

By cp

May 27, 2008 4:34 AM | Link to this

Yea ray when you think about it you have to laugh because we have 2 guys on our team who are very athletic with poor ball handling skills. So all in all you are probably right he is too much of a project but he is a nice talent. After seeing some of the guys that will probably be available in the second round I wouldnt mind if we acquired a second round pick or two. We will have to go cheap to fill out the bench with this B.A.S.G. so why not with the draft. I dont see too many vets coming here on the cheap.

I like Richard Roby and JR Giddens. .We only need one seeing how both are guards. I had actually forgot they both would be available this year. If Roby would have came out say two years ago he is a first rounder. I think JR had some issues at Kansas so he transfered. They both can knock down the long range jumper. Both have good size. I think JR’s athleticism makes him stick out more plus he is a good rebounder for a 2 guard. I think either one would be nice to have to fill out the bench then hopefully develop if we had a coach who knew how to develop talent. I would probably go with Giddens. Guy is a freak athelete with long arms and goes to the glass hard. I would love to see him come off the bench here. I think Roby is a more mature player but I dont think you could go wrong either way. Like I said I dont think the owners will pay anyone else after much money after the two Joshes so I think either Roby or Giddens as a secound rounder could be some nice talent sitting on the bench.

I will link some video and stats later if anybody is interested. I think it will be a few second round gems this year. Its some guys who are going in the first who have bust potential written all over them. I cant believe some of these guys are projected to go so high. I’ll talk abou that later but boy that word “potential” can either make a GM look smart or cost him his job because a lot of these kids projected to go in the first round have that “potential” word all over their scouting reports.

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 4:44 AM | Link to this

cp, i don’t know that PIETRUS has any major weaknesses. i would say his consistency was better in ‘06-‘07 than this past year but i think NELLIE’s decisions had a lot to do with that. i mean, how do you sit BD for the entire 2nd half of the last game of the season where a win keeps you in the runnin’ for a playoff spot (until DEN wins) but a loss definitely puts you out!!??!!! NELLIE’s mad scientist meter was outta whack this season!!

but back to PIETRUS, with MARVIN’s minutes he would easily provide similiar/better stats while providin’ better defense and command more attention defensively from the opposition IMHO. simply put, at this point, he is just a better/more complete player!!! but as Ray said too, only downside would be we’d become smaller.

BIG RAY, nothin’ but respect for you bro, no doubt!! totally feel what you’re sayin’ on BIBBY. i’m not attached if he’s not producin’!!! but man, we finally got a backcourt that can hold its’ own IMHO and that includes ACIE. so i would just like to see it play out. but like you, only if it makes the most sense production wise for the team on the court!!

i just believe we could actually be 10 games better with BIBBY here all season. we had enough stupid losses last season for a 10 game swing to be doable. but of course i say that not knowin’ what the BASG will do about anythin’, includin’ the JOSHes.

i gotta bad feelin’ about the direction and the choices that will be made this summer!!! i hope i’m wrong. but i just got a feelin’ the BASG is DESTINED to choose the wrong colored pill!!! how fast can we say empty PHILIPS…AGAIN!!!???

By Sekou K. Smith

May 27, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

If you’ve made it this far, I’ve got a gem for you:

“(in the absence of the greatest upset in sports history, Grant will be introduced to the public sometime this week).”

The greatest upset in sports history is in the building. Come back to ajc.com as the day unfolds to get the official story.

I’m working on the details right now and will post a story as soon as it’s fit for publication.

By Edo River

May 27, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Astro Joe. I skim for your and Sekou’s posts.

By Astro Joe

May 27, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

Sekou, well that’s a helluva bombshell you just dropped. When do you detonate?

Thanks for the props, Edo River.

By Raptors fan in TO

May 27, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Mykhalc: No offense taken on Ford. We up here know he is a risk as well. But I do believe he is more resilient than he is given credit for. The only thing stopping the Raps from shopping him around is his contract. Mello will probably leave Denver before Ford is dealt… begs the question if the new GM (Grant or whoever) might want to make a pitch for Mello. This why ASG needs to hire someone soon…

By Freshmaker

May 27, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Sekou!! Thanks for all your hard work! Can’t wait to see what bomb you’re droppin on us.

By Matt

May 27, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

I can just see it now…

Gearon: Ladies and Gentlemen, I’d like to introduce to you the next general manager of the Atlanta - Sekou Smith!

(If only…)

By SSI Fan

May 27, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

What in the background of Gearon jr. qualifies him to be the “brains” of the ASG in making decisions about the Hawks? Has he ever worked or accomplished anything or did he just inherit?

I hope SS is right and Grant is not the new GM. The Hawks need an objective GM who has been with an organization that has experienced consistent success.

By khao$

May 27, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Speculation anyone on Sekou’s latest? I betcha Grant turned the Hawks down.

By JoshD

May 27, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

It’s going to be Steve Belkin

By Astro Joe

May 27, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Raptors Fan, I recall reading something that indicated Ford wasn’t doing his neck strengthening exercises as diligently as the doctors prescribed. Was there anything mentioned in the papers up there about that? I really think that Ford will have an All-Star type season next year for another team. He seems to already play with a chip on his shoulder and next season, his chip will be the size of Mount Everest.

By Freshmaker

May 27, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

I’ll go out on a limb here and predict Steve Smith’s the guy…

By khao$

May 27, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Speculation anyone on Sekou’s latest? I betcha Grant turned the Hawks down.

By Some Sense

May 27, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Playoff fever…in spades. BUT…it’s broken. If Grant is the guy, then why couldn’t he have been the guy shortly after the playoffs? Anything to increase momentum and interest. Instead…dead.

The three furious efforts at home tell us that this team can win…maybe even big. The four losses away tell us we’re still sorely lacking at one and five.

A “plan” of some kind should be in place already. Since it’s not been revealed, it can’t come on the heels of the most exciting string of victories in over a decade.

Plan as I see it:

Keep Woody. I keep coming back to the feeling that if we let him go, we’re losing an asset.

Keep Josh Childress as first priority…Josh Smith as a second. Don’t forget we’ve got another great four, Horford.

Decide now whether Law is a one (position) guy or not. If he’s not, move him. Either move Salim into b’up two spot or move him.

Keep Pachulia to be a back-up five.

Scratch, claw, fight, cheat, steal to get a legit five.

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Those wins were for the fan support. Two of the tree home defecits wh had to come back from being down big. Both Cleveland and detriot were either always leading or keeping it close, even on the road. The hawks have some work to do.

This draft Is just too loaded for us to not get in on the action. A lot of these guys I’ve been keeping tabs on for years, I think this is the most curious i’ve been about a draft in a long time.

Can you beleive that CDR is projected to come off the board at 26??? What the hell is going on?? Wel I know he has an awful FT percentage but still..

Thi

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Dude If he keeps woody i’m done. I’m pretty sure thousands of other Hawks fans are too. Do you know how many times after a home loss i’ve heard the FIRE WOODSON!!! chants from the stands. Hawks fans arent stupid, espicially the ones that frequent Phillips arena. They know what the problem is and not addressing it would be committing FSS (Fan Support Suicide).

The playoffs showed the worl that he can’t properly make correct personell decisions. How many times did Fratello state that he baisically only has a six man rotation???

By David

May 27, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

1-Who will be the big man?

2-Who will be the shooters (outside of Joe)?

3-How much better will Bibby be next year if he was injured and only had a 3rd of a seson to meld.

4-Can Marvin improve his outside shot?

5-Will Josh be more agressive and consistent?

6-Can we get new owners?

By femhawkfan

May 27, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Sekou, You really have been excited. I wonder what the “greatest upset in sports history” could be. I remember “greatest upset in sports history” was the term they were using to describe what would happen if the Hawks won the series against the Celtics. So could it have something to do with that? I know am checking back every 30 minutes. But don’t keep me waiting to long, Sekou! However, I am going to throw a WILD guess…the new GM is Dominique Wilkins.

By KD

May 27, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

I still think Greg Anthony would make a wonderful GM!

By David Lee

May 27, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

LOL. That’s all the Atlanta Spirit can afford. What is this amatuer hour? You wonder how these owners can take a crap by themselves. I bet they screw that up too.

By ray

May 27, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Dominique? Dominique! I recall Dominique saying that Marvin Williams was one of those guys that only came along once every 10 years. That’s the only indicator I have of how Dominique thinks. The guy is a figurehead, his title means nothing. He gets to hold a microphone after games, opposite his biggest fan in the world: Jerome Jurenovich. Not only that, but when was the last time you saw former great NBA players that made great league executives? Joe Dumars is the smartest of the lot in my opinion.

I like Dominique. But I don’t know about the GM part. Tell you who does seem very cerebral though: Steve Smith. But anybody could argue against that point, too.

I give up. Maybe it’s Tommy Sheppard. Maybe it’s Rathbun!!! Monkey Spankers of the World Unite!

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, totally concur on ‘NIQUE. like you said, he’s figure head. i know i would NOT put him in charge of my franchise!! oh yeah, i don’t own one!!!LOL

Seeeeekoooooooouuuuu!!! we’re ready!!!

By ronald

May 27, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

you know we just hope that this guy is not like Pete and Billy if so we can look for the same thing as a mess

By Baller

May 27, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

If the hawks don’t want to blow a point guard need again. Look no further than UVA and grab Sean Singletary as fast as you can. The kid as mad skills.

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Besides the ASG doesn’t want to put Dominique in a position where they have to fire their “Hall of Famer” he’s too well respected for what he’s done for this franchise. Besides how would that make or franchise look in the eyes of casual observers?

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

greatest upset in sports history…

BK stays and fires WOODSON while hirin’ MARK JACKSON or promotin’ LDREW!!

By ray

May 27, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Myk, damn right. He’s Executive Vice President of Post Game, ha! You know it’s not good when one of the owners says that he wouldn’t promote Dominique to GM because it would “tarnish his Hall of Fame reputation.” Translation: We love ya, you scored a lot when you played, you’re a great face to have around the organization for the moment, get away from the players, you don’t know anything about personnel, see ya Buddy.

By Ryder

May 27, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

I don’t expect too much out of this “bombshell” that Sekou’s going to drop, unless it will absolutely have something to do with the 12 guys on the floor.

It doesn’t matter if Grant is nothing more than a “yes man” to Gearon, fans don’t pay to see GMs, they pay to see a team become championship caliber.

SalimFan I think if the Hawks franchise had any respect for Nique he would’ve finished his career here, and I don’t think many casual observers would really care what he does with the team.

By terrell barron

May 27, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

The only reason they hired him is because he’s the only one who’d take a GM job in the NBA for 600,000 a year. The BASG are Pathetic!

By ray

May 27, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

I agree, Myk.

By The Flash

May 27, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

JJ is a 3; always has been, always will be. Playing him at the 2 hurts this club. With his body, he should be a leading rebounder from the 3 position. Defensively, that is where he belongs as well.

Roy is a much better distributor than JJ, and also lighter on his feet, more active. Much better suited to guard play. Terrible blunder not to pick him.

Gearon has been the GM since the invention of the issue around the JJ signing. He knew that there was no need to give up two ones and Diaw; once BK got out in front of that bus, he lost any and all power to act as a true GM.

For what it’s worth, I believe that Woody is still the coach because of the DC connection. The two of them have their guy Herb, who has his guy Woody. That is the price Gearon pays to maintain power.

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

greatest upset in sports history…

BELKIN BUYS OUT other BASG members today and offers BK 4 yr extension who then brings in AVERY!!!

By mavid

May 27, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

I hope they make Ando and Astro Joe co-GMs!

What a working relationship that would be.

By tyger

May 27, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

“Mike Gearon Jr. is the real GM”

Chris Grant will along for the ride, he’s relatively young and being given a promotion and rightly so; he be duly loyal to his sponsors.

This is Gearon Jr’s new toy and he’s going to play with it, until he breaks it. And there’s not a dam thing Grant can say or do about it.

That’s why he’s being hired over more veteran mgrs., he’ll fall in line and play ball.

By doc

May 27, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

flash, dude i got trashed for saying the same thing yesterday. i have never seen jj go into the scrum in the middle and come out the other side with the ball in his hands where i have seen roy do it on sequential possessions. roy is a superior ballhandler to jj and only in his second year and smoother.

what is the herb connection of which you speak, flash?

By dcp

May 27, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Flash, JJ sure has sucked as a guard…

By ray

May 27, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Mavid, that would be akin to a UFC fight….

Flash, very well put together. And on the JJ thing, all I can really say is “Amen.” However, making those points is like pulling teeth around here. How come you don’t come around as much? Well, it’s not like this is the greatest place to be during the offseason. Nevermind, stupid question. You know us cops….

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

DOC, now this one i can’t believe!!! did you not see JJ multiple times durin’ the BOS series carve the CELTS up with his ball-handlin’ skills to get into the lane??? or anywhere he wanted to go for that matter!!! doc, you saw it live and in-person bro!!! come on man, remember!!!???LOL

Flash, just because JJ can take his man down on the blocks or wing or where ever does not mean he’s best suited as a 3!!! it means he’s a 2/3 that can post up his man when it’s called for. pls see CARON BUTLER for the best example as a 3!!! JJ is a 2…ROY is a 2…PERIOD!!!

By Wink from Lithonia

May 27, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Chris Grant as GM, the head man for the Hawks. Granted I don’t have a clue who Chris Grant is or if his qualifications are better thant others on the so called list, or even if he is better than most posters here. Chris Grant does have a public track record; he has worked for the Hawks before as an assistant. He has had an opportunity to have his voice heard here for 3 years. Was he a major factor in choices made or a yes man, that we do not know, but can all see the product that was put on the floor at Phillips. He was in Cleveland as an assistant GM; it seems the move to Cleveland was lateral. The Cleveland team also has personnel issues. As we all feel Cleveland is LeBron & nothing, so what did he add to the Cleveland talent base. Yes they went to the Finals last year, but that probably is a result of the East coast little league & a great player.

What was Grant’s contribution? What makes him now ready to take over the GM position here? Are we following the lead of the Falcons and giving a guy his first opportunity to lead??

This is what a first year guy here is dealing with:

1. Multi, dysfunctional ownership group.
2. Will he have to fire Woody & recruit a new coach.
3. Can stamp an identity on this inconsistent style of play & direction.
4. No funds to work with as Bibby & JJ are breaking the bank as far as cap space reducing our ability to bring in Free Agents.
5. Will he be able to sign both Joshes to long term contracts?
6. If not, which Josh should you keep?
7. No draft choices in 1st & 2nd round.
8. Will he be his own man or just a puppet in the GM chair. (See Dimitrof selection of Ryan instead of D & O lines)
9. Will he comman respect based on past achievement in the locker room and amongst other GM’s.

Are we sure we need a Rookie to address these problems…or do we need a Trader Jack type…this guy does not stand a chance here!!!!

By Astro Joe

May 27, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

mavid & Ray, that sounds good to me. As long as I have full authority of completing the roster of the A-Town dancers, I don’t care what Ando does with the basketball team. “The audition bed is to the left, to the left, show me all your assets in the bed to the left”. Josh? Marvin? Who cares. I want to see what my team (A-Town) can do with their backs to the basket. HEY NOW!

By Ramon

May 27, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Myk, I’m with you. Someone may say Roy has better handles, but Roy doesn’t face as many double (sometimes triple) teams as JJ does. Its not too easy to continue dribbling when you have 2 professional athletes guarding you and keying on you. Roy is in an offense where his COACH actually has players moving, setting screens and actually put players in good positions. How many times did JJ go between his legs to beat a double team?

And who ever says JJ is a 3 because he can post up is foolish. Jordan, Billups, Richmond, and many more could post up all the time, that doesn’t make them a forward. It just means they know how to take advantage of that mismatch. Rasheed, Okur, and Zydrunas can step out and hit a jumper, does that make them a perimeter player?

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

JOE, i’m raidin’ GSW for players this off-season but leave the GSW cheerleaders alone!!! they will NOT be allowed to speak to other teams!!!LOL i need,(ah-hem) i mean we need them here in the BAY!!! there is a reason this IS the most scenic/prettiest area in the country!!!

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Joe!!!!! I completley second that opinion and accept your offer as assiatant Talent evaluator!!!!

By Matt

May 27, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Ramon,

Hit the nail on the head, man. You too, mykhalc. I might as well retire my keyboard! (and I actually will for the rest of the day - cheers, y’all)

By K-Rock

May 27, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

If Grant is the GM, only time will tell if he’s right for the Hawks. What about this off season move? Zza Zza and Salim for Desagna Diop. I have no idea if the salaries would work but with Diop’s defense and rebounding we would win more than 37 games next season. The Maverick’s were much worse defensively without Diop after the Kidd trade.

By Lil E

May 27, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Seeing this makes me sad that Billy Knight resigned. Atleast he had SOME success as a GM.

By doc

May 27, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

myk you are missing the point. i see jj take it to the hoop like wade jr and put up a shot bro. it is his game when he does it and it is one on five. i have seen him chunk quite a few in my days of watching him too and that comes with the territory of who he is and i like his game. i also feel that roy would have complimented his game because he has more of the facilitator which i see VERY little of in jj. i rarely see jj come out the other side without doing something with it wise choice or not.

i was saying roy can come out the other side with the ball still in his possession. look roy was r of yr and all star second year, that speaks for itself. for that matter we as fans still will have to live with the fact there are three guys we passed on that have already ended up in all star games and two as r of yr. what we got out of it; marvin and shels/bibby plus his salary which ends this year. not a very good trade off for the umpteenth million time.

still dont see how everyone is ready to dump josh smith. where will the highlight be in the highlight factory. hell, most folks on here are to young to truly remember ‘nique and you cant attribute that name to something that is not in the present or can you?

yes wink, frightening scenario, i hope he has an iq of about 180 and an eye for talent that may have escaped his predecessors. or can our BASG come to their senses and really have a clue? segue into …

now is blog z pulling our chains? he usually is straight up so if reading it right grant is not in the picture or am i left to say; “riddle me that one batman.’

how about that kid for the pistons maxiel, they were comparing him to josh smith on the radio, he was huge lat night.

By Mike

May 27, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

looks like sekou is full of it. what’s with this biggest upset in sports history nonsense?

By nique

May 27, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

seriously, sekou you can’t write with that kind of certainty and then contradict that without giving us something more on the story (like who the gm appears to be now and why everyone was wrong before)

By Melvin

May 27, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

Doc, I’m with Mykalc on this one. I think JJ has superior ball handling skills but Roy has a better first step. JJ is very tricky with the ball but he doesn’t have blow by speed. Roy is quicker which enable him to beat guys of the dribble where as JJ use elusive moves to get around his defenders….

By Jerome James

May 27, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

So Sekou drops you guys a scoop since you’re his most loyal readers, and is trying to do his job by researching, and all you can do is whine about why it’s taking so long? Chill

By Melvin

May 27, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

I told yall a few blogs back that Milwaukee is shopping Redd and the Hawks should try to acquire him. They want a SF to go along with their young frontline (Bogut and Yi). Can you say Marvin (or JChill) and other assets to complete the transaction. Redd is ready to leave Milwaukee… Wow, can you imagine him and JJ on the perimeter and JSmoove and Hoford on the inside with Bibby at the controls… Okay, I’m back from fantasy land…

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

DOC, ok got cha. i too think JJ and ROY could have complimented each others games, no doubt!!! but for me, it’s more so because they BOTH can flat out ball and BOTH have great bball IQ’s!!!but NOT because JJ is better suited as a 3 as Flash alluded to.

also, Ramon had some great points!! imagine JJ in POR with that team and that coach!!!

we can all continue to focus on what we did not do in the previous drafts. for me, JJ showed me hands down in the BOS series where he’s at as a NBA player. i’ll take that ANY DAY. ROY or no ROY!!!! and last i checked, it’ NO ROY!!!!

By Harry Hawk

May 27, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Seems to me that Brandon Roy damn well ought to have a better first step than Joe Johnson. Roy’s only played two seasons, while Joe has played seven. Joe has played a full 82 games in five of the last six seasons (he missed those 25 games in ‘06-‘07) while averaging 40 minutes per game in each of the last five seasons.

Remember, folks. You always have to take wear and tear into account if you’re going to compare players. We’ll see if Roy holds up as well as Joe has under that kind of workload. That being said, I sure as s** wish we had both Roy and Joe in the backcourt. Thanks a lot, BK.

By Najeh Davendump

May 27, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Good point Jerome. And while you guys are at it, remember that there’s no other NBA city you’re getting scoops like this straight from the beat writer

By The Flash

May 27, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Doc This is pure guess on my part, as opposed to most of my views which are 90% guess. But, here’s my thinking.

Gearon needs L and P to secure his base of control. If either bolted to let’s say Belkin, well, control is almost his.

So, what do they want. Seems that L has always had a say, and is visible. P, on the otherhand, what about him. Herb took P to Israel when Herb coached the US in the Macabea games. Let him be part of the team.

My guess, P gets Herb who sits behind that bench and has longstanding ties with Woody.

So, P feels like an owner. Is in on all the skinny. Just a theory. For the life of me, I can not fathom another one for why Woody is still here.

By 404

May 27, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

My thinking that if anyone else was brought into the interview process, it’s someone who already has ties to the organization. My guess is either Steve Smith or Scouting Dir. Harold Ellis.

I find it rather odd that a choice hasn’t been made yet…and the Pre Draft camps start today! You need a GM in place NOW!

By nique

May 27, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

that’s a fair point, but i would appreciate the contradicted scoop a little bit more if he qualified it with something less certain than the “biggest upset in sports history”, and gave us more of a clue about what’s coming up

By doc

May 27, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

melvin, i was not saying one was better than the other just different. as far as jj at three, that would work if you had to bring in a quick guard to off set the other team or change tempo and to have had roy slide into the two spot. flexibilty, instead of same size/abilities is the way to do it. that isnt the way the hawks were built and it is still needed, that and a new coach to run it. yep, some things never change.

By Jerome James

May 27, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

His “biggest upset in sports history” is obviously a reference to his original blog yesterday…he’s not saying that the person being hired is the biggest upset in sports history. Read people, read!

By doc

May 27, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

flash, thanks for the response. got it and i forget it is still the square table and there might still be power plays in the offings. diabolical, but may still be some of the hands left to play in the saga as it unfolds.

By nique

May 27, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

jerome, when I wrote “qualified it” i was obviously refering to the certainty of the scoop itself and not the gm…guess you missed the point

By CRobinson

May 27, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

I’m going to throw this out as a guess…..Lindsey changed his mind.

By newkid

May 27, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

JJ’s got a 2 mindset in a body that’s rapidly becoming that of a 3 (see my Paul Pierce comparison a few weeks back). It’s the progression of JJ’s physique towards that of a 3 that makes Marvin even more tradeable if we can bring back a ‘real’ 2 as part of the package. Even if JJ can manage it at 26 or 27 years of age, at 235 lbs he not likely to long have success chasing 2s like Monta Ellis, Rip Hamilton, and Brandon Roy around NBA courts; certainly not if he expects to make major contributions on the offensive end of the floor.

I say again, send Marvin home to Portland (the Blazers would love it) in exchange for the youngster Martell Webster and pick #13, which should then be used to take the best available 5 (Javale McGee?).

By Jerome James

May 27, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Nique- he qualified it when he was obviously only referring to the hire of Grant, and that he thought it was virtually a lock. So the “biggest upset” would seem to simply mean it won’t be Grant for whatever reason.

By doc

May 27, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

newk, great idea, good thinking for an old man. i’ll take it in a new york minute.

By nique

May 27, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

no kidding….

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

this ain’t the same kinda 235lbs that PIERCE is carryin’ around!!! PLEASE!!!! you cats are killin’ me!!! str8 up killin’ me!!! now the best on ball defender we got is gonna breakdown chasin’ 2s!!???!!! you cats are killin’ me!!!LOL

By Sekou K. Smith

May 27, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Chris Grant is out and now we move on yet again in what has to be one of the most perplexing searches I’ve ever seen.

The Hawks aren’t giving up details and neither are the people they’re interviewing (hence all the bad info being farmed out by various dot com sources). That makes our job ridiculously tough.

But Chris Grant will not be taking over the show for the Hawks this week, as some lunk head (me) suggested above.

As I said earlier on the radio, I’m going with experience now. The Hawks have poked around the next big thing crowd and come up empty. Now comes the been there, done that crowd.

At least now we’ll have a catalog of someone’s work to pick over when we digest the hire.

By nique

May 27, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

thanks for the update Sekou

By tyger

May 27, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Marvin Williams is from Washington state, Portland wouldnt quite be considered home.

By Maxx

May 27, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

We need to trade Marvin “The Duck” Williams and a firsrt round pick next year to get into the middle of the first round this year and select C Roy Hibbert, Georgetown. We need a Center so we can move “Beast” Horford over to his natural position at the 4 and let Smoove play the 3, JJ at 2 and Bibby/Law at the point.

By terrell barron

May 27, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Please tell me that this guy was’nt around when we picked Sheldon? If he was, he woulda slapped BK for even thinking about it. Thats BK only flop, in my opinion. Marvin takes a lot of heat, but I dont consider him a flop. Yeah Paul or Deron shoulda been the pick, but who knew they would be All-Star’s in their 3rd season? They were good, but Sloan and Byron deserves a hell of a lot of credit for their development. And why is ESPN saying that we passed on another PG, by taking Acie over Stuckey? Stuckey gets playing time! HELLO!!! If he was here, he’d be just like Acie. That’s just not fair at all. F******* ESPN! We might have 2 or 3 all-star’s riding the bench, but we’ll never know, as long as sorry asss Woody’s around.

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

Close Call Averted!!

By Malone

May 27, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

Getting rid of Woody would energize the fan base and build on the past year’s “momentum.”

Isn’t that what Gearon wants?

By Ryder

May 27, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Marvin is a solid player who is still growing as an NBA player. Just because Deron and CP3 are stars doesn’t change the fact that BK felt justified in what he did. They had veteran coaches as terrell stated who nurtured their development. It’s hard receiving that same development from a coach (Woodson) who is still trying to learn the ropes himself. Horford succeeded in spite of his coaching.

That said, Gearon is still searching for a new puppet, I mean GM who will bow to the ASG’s wallet and whims. All I know is that whomever it is better ante up to pay Josh Smith and do whatever it takes to get another body in the post.

If this team can take care of their own and get that PJ Brown type vet in the offseason, they will make some serious noise next year.

By Ramon

May 27, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

I think Del Harris would be a good guy to look at here in Atlanta. He has to be tired of not running the show any more. And I find it hard to believe that he hasn’t improved a lot since his last head coaching job.

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

sounds like the JJ signin’!!!! geeesshhhh….but they might luck out on this one TOO!!!!hehheh

SalimFan, i agree!!!!

By SalimFan

May 27, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

TB, Thats exactly what i’ve been trying to tell people here who are judging the players on our bench who don’t get significant minutes

By Harry Hawk

May 27, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

Check out Woody’s Wikipedia page.

That’s a nice picture of Woody.

If Woody is still learning the ropes after four years of being an NBA head coach, I’m sure there are a lot of guys out there wondering why they weren’t given that long to “learn”.

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

as HAWKS fans i think the only safe place to remove the bags is when we’re in PHILIPS amongst friends!!! otherwise, don’t let your identity be known!!! it ain’t safe!!!! the BASG is D-LEAGUE material!!!!

i think ANDO and JOE just turned down the job too!!!!

By ILL-Logical

May 27, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Sound the horn of feasting- a stinging defeat has been averted,albeit temporarily.

Seriously, I believe that this blog is being followed in high(low) places and the opinions voiced here are having an impact . So let’s keep the eye of scutiny on management.

By terrell barron

May 27, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Harry Hawk, its because they dont work for the BASG. If they did, they’d prolly stick around too. Why fire anyone, when you can pay em a subway sandwich a week?

By terrell barron

May 27, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

They can hire Doc, Ray, Salimfan, Mykhalc or whoever to be the GM. As long as the Woodpecker’s gone, I’ll be happy. And that’s the truth!!

By newkid

May 27, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

doc, every now and again.

Okay tyger, so Portland is indeed a ‘few’ miles south of what can accurately be called Marvin’s home, but with the Sonics moving to Oklahoma the Blazers will surely soon be the defacto home team for all of the the pacific northwest.

mykhalc, JJ may not yet be where Pierce is today(“…rapidly becoming…”), but isn’t Pierce some 6 years older? JJ’s well along that path, but I don’t mean to suggest that he’s a liability TODAY as a defender at the 2. His future is at 3.

By terrell barron

May 27, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

And for whoever said the BASG was probably reading this blog is dillusional. If they were, Woody and BK would have been fired a couple of years ago. lol!!!

By cp

May 27, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Well for some reason my last post did not show up.. mykhalic great point about Nellie. He keeps more guys in his dog house than Woody. SalimFan I was thinking the same thing when it comes to the amount of talent in this draft. I think a lot of guys are going to fall to the second round because it will be a lot of reaching for potential in the first. My two guys in the second are JR Giddens and Richard Roby.

Jr Giddens ESPN - J.R. Giddens Stats, News, Photos - New Mexico Lobos YouTube - Tony Danridge vs. JR Giddens Dunk Contest YouTube - JR Giddens - former Kansas Jayhawk (‘04) YouTube - JR Giddens

You see a lot of dunks but I think his game matured once he left Kansas.

Richard Roby

ESPN - Richard Roby Stats, News, Photos - Colorado Buffaloes YouTube - NBA Draft 2008 Prospect Richard Roby

Hopefully the links works or this even gets posted. I think Seattle and Portland will look to unload some of their second rounder’s. We could use one or two and help fill out the bench on the cheap because I don’t see the B.A.S.G. spending too much money after we sign the Joshes. As far as the GM search, this could be a good thing it could also be bad I have no idea which. I really wasn’t too excited about Grant anyway so maybe they can get this right.

By cp

May 27, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

Well for some reason my last post did not show up.. mykhalic great point about Nellie. He keeps more guys in his dog house than Woody. SalimFan I was thinking the same thing when it comes to the amount of talent in this draft. I think a lot of guys are going to fall to the second round because it will be a lot of reaching for potential in the first. My two guys in the second are JR Giddens and Richard Roby.

Jr Giddens ESPN - J.R. Giddens Stats, News, Photos - New Mexico Lobos YouTube - Tony Danridge vs. JR Giddens Dunk Contest YouTube - JR Giddens - former Kansas Jayhawk (‘04) YouTube - JR Giddens

You see a lot of dunks but I think his game matured once he left Kansas.

Richard Roby

ESPN - Richard Roby Stats, News, Photos - Colorado Buffaloes YouTube - NBA Draft 2008 Prospect Richard Roby

Hopefully the links works or this even gets posted. I think Seattle and Portland will look to unload some of their second rounder’s. We could use one or two and help fill out the bench on the cheap because I don’t see the B.A.S.G. spending too much money after we sign the Joshes. As far as the GM search, this could be a good thing it could also be bad I have no idea which. I really wasn’t too excited about Grant anyway so maybe they can get this right.

By terrell barron

May 27, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Pierce is 4 yrs older than JJ.

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

newkid, PIERCE has never and i repeat NEVER been in the kinda shape JJ is in!!! NEVER!!!! JJ will turn into PIERCE when he starts livin’ at the KRISPY KREME on PONCE!!!

does ANYONE wanna talk about NOW??? PLEASE!!!! CP3, DERON, ROY, JJ is a PIERCE to be, JJ is really a 3, let’s get ALDRIDGE, BIBBY’s old, etc etc etc!!! HELP!!! well come to think of it, the ‘NOW NEWS’ is kinda stank!!!LOL but then again, the gods shined on us once again…HORFORD first, PLAYOFFS second, and GRANT is not the GM today!!! today has been a good day!!! BASG, go freakin’ hire a real GM damn it!!! can you cats spell…E-X-P-E-R-I-E-N-C-E!!!????

By doc

May 27, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

myk, excuse me? if i talk about now it might take me to depression or homocide with the BASG who cant even get hiring a lackey right. that is the current news. that is the now. past and future suck, too. heh heh.

where is my friend honest abe to lighten up things around here?

By mykhalc

May 27, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

DOC, LOL. sad but true!!!

By tony

May 27, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

hire magic johnson to replace bk and kirt rambis to replace mw or hire avery johnson to replace bk and mw.

history shows that nba coaches who have championship rings as players have had more success than those who have none.

athletes respect and gravitate to coaches and gms who have had championship experience.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

May 27, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

What a mess. The Hawks have out Clippered the Clippers.

By Matt

May 27, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Gotta love it. Doc in one breath manages to dismiss Grant as a lackey and uses his Xavier-like powers to conclude that it was Grant who turned down ASG rather than the other way around.

Couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that Grant’s resume only includes working with poorly-regarded GMs, could it? And there’s no way he could have said all the wrong things in the interview is there? Nah.

By doc

May 27, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

let’s see a clandestine op to hire a new gm that has led to the rejection by someone not even in the mix of one and the hand selected hire turns out to be not the one they wanted for some odd reason.

can you imagine what it must seem like to be a player on this quagmire of an organization? the clips of the east. why should we expect otherwise when they took a team in hockey that won a pennant to one of the three worst teams in hockey as a follow up? maybe they will do their due diligence and do it right but one has to wonder about anyone who would put themselves up for this job. just bottom line.

By Matt

May 27, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

Doc,

You’re taking it on faith from the chattering class that Grant and Lindsey were the “hand selected hire[s]” in the first place. I realize you’re a cynic, but it’s kind of ridiculous to view everything that happens with the assumption that everyone in the universe must take the same incredibly dim view of the Hawks organization that you do.

That’s “bottom line.”

By ray

May 27, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

Matt, believe me…Doc isn’t “taking anything on faith from the chattering class.” And he’s not being a random cynic. He knows what he’s talking about. I could prove this to you, but 1)I don’t betray trust. EVER. And 2)I don’t betray trust…..EVER.

As for the dim view that you speak of…unfortunately my friend, this is not assumption. There is no place for assumption in the face of hard cold knowledge. The worst is yet to come…

By Matt

May 27, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

Ray,

Fair enough. It’s not really possible to have a debate when your ‘opponent’ claims to have the informational equivalent of a hidden trump card. If they hire a well-regarded GM candidate, though, I’m going to wonder about the accuracy of Doc’s info source…

GO SPURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By MannyT

May 27, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

I think this crowd is a few smiles short of a Happy Meal. Relax on the gloom & doom.

People were not happy when they thought Chris Grant was the next GM. You find out it ain’t so and folks are unhappy because the “deal” may have fallen apart. The ASG never said they were close. In fact, they have gone into BK mode for the most part. I think it is wise for them to keep their mouths shut until they have a done deal.

Now folks are worried that our best player is going to become Khalid El-Amin and not find his way out of the buffet line because he’s a 235 lb perimeter player that guards the 1, 2, & 3 positions. JJ is a player. He usually gets the toughest defensive perimeter assignment. Don’t worry about where we play him. Just hope that Woody doesn’t run him into the ground 6 mos after he signs his next contract.

You want to trade Marvin for a bag of magic beans because he didn’t turn out to be Carmello Anthony w/o the off court baggage. I get that he isn’t a player for the ages, but look at him through a similar lens that folks did with Shelden. He didn’t MAKE anyone pick him 2nd. But here’s the difference, if we trade that pick, he probably still gets selected 2nd in 2005. Similar to the way, everyone expects Beasley and Rose to be the top 2 picks regardless of need. Bulls have Hinrich, so what, Rose is special. Roll back the clock 3 years and it’s Marvin that was special.

If you really believe this is a 2nd coming of the 2003 draft, that’s fine. Just don’t mortgage our future to pick up Darko 2.

Silence or the choice to keep things under wraps does NOT automatically equate to PAIN. This could be a moment of good CRAP.

By ray

May 27, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

Myk, the discussions about Roy have never been about whether or not he’s better than JJ. It’s been about how he would fit next to JJ.

I don’t think any of us are going to back off of what we see JJ as. Doesn’t matter. Fact is, he’s the best 2 we’ve got (by a long shot). Funny thing is he’s a better 3 than any of the guys we have playing the three. Tell me it ain’t true. That’s why I have always agreed with you on having Pietrus here. I like him as a three. Don’t know what it would take to get him, but I see him being better than Marvin overall. Better defense, better shooting range…(somebody cue MATT so he can disagree with me here).

Right now, we’re in a lot of trouble. What little credibility the ASG had could be attributed to pure ignorance on the part of those who simply weren’t taking notice. The window of opportunity is closing. Gearon can say all he wants that they never intended to rush this job. It’s simple: the ASG has had two public failures in bringing in a new GM. Nevermind the idea that both cases were for different essential reasons. All that matters for the general public is that two guys have been in the “supposed to take over” category, only to soundly land in the “not coming here” category. And yet the devil IS in the details.

Gearon and Co. have to know that time is running out. The more time it takes to do the deal, the less time a new guy has to come in and develop a plan (much less alternate plans) and implement it. Less time to decide “if” and “how” to get involved in the draft. Less time to figure out how to deal with our RFAs, as well as other personnel decisions/situations.

I can say this much: if keeping/firing Woodson remains a stalling point, this ship is quickly headed for uncharted waters…in more ways than one. Dark, dangerous waters….”here there be monsters.”

By doc

May 28, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

matt, sometimes you have to read a bit, listen a bit and then look around to find some hidden “truths” as you rely on past experience. if one doesnt …. guess you are still among those looking for the weapons of mass destruction. i guess there are still a few of those folks around or those that dont think it matters.

spin baby spin, is what it is about. no one in this era can do anything in a vacuum, simple stuff matt and i hope you dont think it can be any other way. is the stuff that “leaks” out all straight? no, but when you keep hearing it over and over then it begins to add up or do you still think blank wasnt left at the alter even though it was correctly reported that he was close to having his man parcell’s. if the media misses it too much then there is repercussion. funny, how it is rare that there is a problem there.

btw, i dont have any opponents here nor do you or ray, i hope. arent there enough of them without manufacturing them here on this simple to of expression?

also if you carefully read my post at 10:22 i said the one they were after they decided against with no mention of who rejected whom or speculate why. contentious counselor a bit, no? also the only types mentioned are those i would consider mouthpieces or what i consider lackeys. if you dont see that then shame on you. what is the statement fool me once …. and no i dont have or pretend to have a complete list of those considered as i see or hear the same list you do.

my way of thinking or MY opinion is they want a guy who will accept the title, low money and be willing to enact what the owners want and maybe that is all any of these guys do. what do you think they are after, do you really think it is a strong guy with a reputation of success that is from a leading organization say like a donnie walsh? yep, my point exactly, it doesnt seem that way and we dont seem to be aiming that high and it will be more of a retread type. i assure you if the type of guy you are looking for is the type of guy i am looking for and i will buy a set of season tickets on the spot. otherwise i will sit and watch how the summer unfolds. discern baby discern.

now matt, discern this for me, how can a real ref not call some kind of a foul at the end of this game? the crawford guy needs to be fired plain and simple. it is just maybe stern wants to see a KOBE finals, now who will the stern king decide on for the next step … can you say celts if it isnt a flat cold cocked knockout by the pistons.

conspiracy theorists among us anyone?

By mykhalc

May 28, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

BIG RAY, we are in total agreement about JJ bein’ our best 2 and best 3!! great point!!! we are in total agreement that PIETRUS, at this point, is a better overall player than MARVIN. and we both agree that we’d hate to get smaller if showhow PIETRUS could be signed and MARVIN traded but we’d take it!!!(Matt don’t start…reread my earlier posts before you do.LOL)

my ‘guess’ is that the BASG wanted LINDSEY(sp?) and didn’t really want GRANT. but that ain’t nothin’ but a guess!!!

By doc

May 28, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this

funny how they make calls like that during the game but not at the end when anything goes. i would have been surprised if the call had been overlooked if it was kobe or if it was d. wade a few years back during the finals. interesting too how they say one has to sell a call even though the foul kept barry from getting a shot off towards the basket because someone was hanging on him as he tried to dribble around him.

By ray

May 28, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

Matt, those Spurs may make it yet. I’m always so impressed with their resiliency.

By the way, two small things: It’s not Doc who has an info source (sorry, but I am a frequent user of misdirection when I feel the need), and a trump card is not a trump card unless you have something to win. Believe me when I say this is not a win situation, and no “argument” that we have here is worth the bragging rights.

MannyT, you could be right. Let’s pray that through some divine intervention, you’ll get a chance to pat yourself on the back for believing in CRAP instead of PAIN. I admire that about you.

I must’ve missed the part about worrying about JJ’s weight. I could care less where we play him as long as it’s not at the 1, 4, or 5 (hey, some of us have to have some kind of sense). It was just harmless opinionated discussion. As I recall, none of us here runs things within the organization anyway, right?

I’m so through with the draft pick discussions. We missed. We will continue to suffer because of it, though so many won’t realize why. You can call it magic beans if you want, but somebody has to be moved sooner or later, or we won’t get better. And I don’t see where there’s room for another theory. Of course, we can all go frollicking down the yellow brick road follwing the yellow dick toad, thinking that if we just keep all the same players together forever, we’ll be champions some day.

If I told you there was cyanide in the koolaide, and it would kill you in 9 years….would you believe me today? Or would you wait 8 years, until the symptoms became all too clear….

By Matt

May 28, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

Doc,

I’m not even gonna comment on the no-call at the end of that game. Well…I guess I just did.

By doc

May 28, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

matt, realist is what i seem to think of myself not a cynic. for example, they blew a chance to make this into a hockey town but did nothing last year to build on that success except go backwards and not move up the pecking order and kept costs to a minimum. it is not cynical o say that there second best player said no thanks to any attempts to resign him because he felt the organization wasnt capable of getting him deep into the playoffs. like it or not he is in the finals with the pens and performing admirably well. maybe he was a cynic or maybe a realist and got out while the getting was good.

and yes i thnk the way it is going they have a similar chance to turn this hawks’ ship back down if they are not careful as there was very little room for error between this year and last. last year was a gift, teams went down that werent expected to chicago, indiana, and miami, and there were no injuries and a point guard to be gotten for nothing more than about 18 mil total salary and a song of players. am i a cynic or a realist when i say it can easily go the other way and the guy coming in will need a bit of time to make the correct decisions going forward on coach and whether to sign the joshes? do you not think whoever wants them is not going to make an early play thinking the sooner the better as time is against the new guy? cynic?

By Harry Hawk

May 28, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this

Amen, doc.

It’s obvious that Charles, Kenny, and Reggie all got the league memo during the commercial break before the postgame started.

Imagine if Reggie Miller had been in Barry’s situation there and had somehow managed not to flop (extremely hard to imagine, I know) to “sell” the call. If he didn’t get a foul called there, he would have grabbed Crawford’s head and gnawed on it with those jacked-up teeth of his.

Typical NBA garbage.

By ray

May 28, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

Doc, here I go trying to back you up and defuse the “argument” and what do you do but poke the stick at Matt all the harder….

By the way, a little birdie told me of your sarcastic e-mail too, ya clown. See if I give you credit for being right again! Keep it up and I’ll have to call you “old” again, LOL!

Sautee, that last one doesn’t apply to you, seeing as how you’re not a repeat offender in the “stick-poking” category. Besides, I know you’re lurking out there somewhere, and this young bull knows that a Pyrrhic victory is the most that can be expected or hoped for when tangling with two older (and potentially treacherous) bulls. Of course, if Ando is added as a partner in crime, then old age and treachery might not be enough…heh heh heh!

By mykhalc

May 28, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

what is evident to me is BK caught the BASG totally off-guard!!! that or their incompetence is beyond anythin’ i ever dreamed!!! i put money on the first tho!!!

don’t know GRANT but a student of BABCOCK and BK is a bit tooooo much for me!!! to me, still a good day in the ATL despite all that is the BASG!!!

By MannyT

May 28, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

I can understand that the refs will not decide a game on a weak call, but will blow the whistle if there is a major foul. Similar things happen at the end of football games, especially with holding calls.

Sadly, before Bibby showed up, JJ may have been our best 1,2,&3.

Not trying to say good things about the ASG, but sometimes getting slapped enough leads you to change your approach. Because the NBA is a small group of folks, they have to be running out of people to take on the hollow GM role. Maybe that will lead them to back off on some of the demands.

This is similar to when Jimmy Johnson left the Cowboys. Between Barry Switzer and Chan Gailey it was an odd time in Texas. Finally they moved away from that, and we will too at some point. Hope that the ASG can see past their Jerry Jones visions of controlling everything and move on to controlling some things, winning, and making a crapload of cash.

So no deal (with puppet strings) can be better than deal!

PAIN averted at least for another day.

By doc

May 28, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

ray, when does “may be right” be taken as given full “credit”? that bone didnt have any meat on it much less minerals to help this aging body.

maybe i did poke matt a bit; he did throw one high and tight so i had to fight it off as it was in hard on the hands. besides, he knows that we are both suffering as the nba plays with its rules according to the clock stuff that makes it hard not to think the guy in jail named donahy is all bad but merely playing along. no way it doesnt get called as the intent of the player witht he ball in his hands was to try and get a clear shot off in a very short amount of time not to sell a shot or do a flop and hope it gets called. yeah, it would have been a tough game to have to lose as he threw up three foul shots, it also might have made for the best suspense in these finals. is there a line for greater than 15 spread that we all might be wanting to play? there have been few good close games to watch down to the finish and this was one of them. maybe it would have been good theatre to have seen how barry would have handled the pressure at the line i the game on the line or an overtime to determine the winner.

By cp

May 28, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this

Alright let me try these links again.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=15187

http://youtube.com/watch?v=huVvyyq3L0A

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yoKejSN5hH4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GOq7hvULlfY

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=22187

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CIAtir2cRC0

By ray

May 28, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this

Doc, “full credit” is reserved for “fully right.” Want to hear something funny? Popovich was quoted as saying that if he was the official, he wouldn’t have called that a foul either. Interpret it as you will, or take it at face value. I could care less which way this series goes. Don’t have a horse in this race, but been enjoying the games all the same. Oddly enough, there’s more drama in the Eastern series…

What the hell. Let’s put on the tin foil hat and say it’ll be Lakers and Celts. I could give a rat’s azzzzz….

By cp

May 28, 2008 3:10 AM | Link to this

I just read on ESPN that Grant actually turned down the Hawks offer. I dont know how true it is seeing how its coming from ESPN. I will just paste the story..

The Atlanta Hawks were still looking for a new general manager Tuesday after Cleveland Cavaliers executive Chris Grant rejected the Hawks’ offer.

Grant becomes the second prime candidate to remove his name from consideration for the Hawks’ post after San Antonio Spurs assistant general manager Dennis Lindsey pulled out last week.

NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com that Grant spent the weekend mulling Atlanta’s proposal before ultimately deciding to stay in his role with the Cavaliers as a top aide to front-office chief Danny Ferry.

Sources said contract negotiations between Grant and the Hawks began after Lindsey’s withdrawal and intensified to the point that Atlanta had ceased speaking to other candidates, expecting Grant to accept.

Grant, who worked under Pete Babcock and Billy Knight with the Hawks before moving to Cleveland, is the only candidate to date who was actually offered the job, which came open May 6 when Knight abruptly resigned.

ESPN.com reported May 16 that Knight — widely expected to be fired after the Hawks were eliminated from the playoffs — actually had the opportunity to stay with the Hawks on a one-year contract. But Knight elected to step down effective July 1.

Hawks part-owner Michael Gearon Jr. told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Tuesday that the process “is coming to a close,” but it was not immediately known whom Atlanta will turn to now. One source close to the process described the Hawks as “scrambling” because they believed they had Grant, who ultimately decided against making the leap from one of the most stable franchises in the league to a team that just halted the league’s longest playoff drought and which is known for feuding factions in its crowded ownership group.

Other candidates Atlanta is known to have interviewed, in addition to Grant and Lindsey, are Washington Wizards vice president of basketball administration Tommy Sheppard, Boston Celtics assistant general manager Dave Wohl and Portland Trail Blazers personnel scout John Gabriel, former general manager of the Orlando Magic.

Grant could not be reached for comment Tuesday. Lindsey had earlier cited “family considerations and professional considerations” for his pullout.

Gabriel has the most decorated resume of the recent interviewees, as a former NBA Executive of the Year in Orlando who left his post late in the Magic’s 21-61 nightmare season in 2003-04. In his current job, Gabriel serves as a scout and adviser to Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard.

The fast-rising Sheppard, who works as a lead assistant to Wizards president Ernie Grunfeld, is an up-and-comer in the Grant mold and widely considered future GM material. In addition to his talks with the Hawks, Sheppard was a finalist in Seattle for the job that went to Sam Presti last summer.

Pritchard, Presti and Ferry rose to prominence after stints with the Spurs, who have been raided for executives in recent years after a run of three championships in five years. Lindsey is likewise considered future GM material after a long stint with the Houston Rockets and his move to San Antonio as a top aide to Spurs personnel chief R.C. Buford, but he was reluctant to entertain outside interest in his first full season with the Spurs. Lindsey had previously resisted overtures from the Milwaukee Bucks late in the regular season before the Bucks hired longtime Detroit Pistons executive John Hammond as their new front-office chief.

It’s believed that Grant is also following Hammond’s lead, after Hammond had rebuffed interest from several teams over the years to stay in Detroit as the right-hand man to Pistons president Joe Dumars before finally taking the Bucks’ job.

Although Atlanta currently has no pick in the June 26 draft, either in the first or second round, Knight’s successor is expected to make a firm ruling on the future of coach Mike Woodson, whose contract expires June 30. Knight reportedly tried to fire Woodson multiple times this season before the Hawks halted a playoff drought dating to 1999 and wound up extending the 66-win Celtics to a Game 7 in the first round.

Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, click here

By mykhalc

May 28, 2008 3:36 AM | Link to this

cp, thanks for postin’!! i guess my guess was a$$ backwards!!!???

By Ramon

May 28, 2008 4:22 AM | Link to this

Could all of these candidates be turning down the position because they can’t fire Woody???

By stevo

May 28, 2008 4:31 AM | Link to this

1) for those of you complaining about brandon roy still, that was the best thing that could have happened. if the hawks take him, they win at least 10 more games hat year, then they do not end up with the number three pick, and then they do not end up with horford as phoenix instead gets their number nine pick or whatever. and horford is way more valuable for what the hawks need than roy would be.

2) i think i will keep repeating how ridiculous some of you are with your totally irrational love for players like salim (show me another successful short, erratic 2 guard with no handles, no d, and no drive) so long as you keep repeating this nonsense it is only because they are denied playing time to develop.

you know, if only the hawks would play me 20 minutes a game, i could be a star!! you earn playing time in practice or in what you are able to do in limited time in the games. salim has no skills, and therefore gets no play. sounds about right to me.

i think it is kind of like sekou fancies himself an eclectic, spiritual type (which he probably is - saying he ‘fancies himself’ as such does not mean to imply otehrwise; i just don’t know him personally, obviously, to verify)so he probably took a particular liking to salim for that reason, and then some of the ‘kids’ on here want to be liked by the ‘cool kid’ sekou, so they jumped full force on that bandwagon, no matter how ridiculous it makes them sound.

ok, rant over. salim will be out of the league in three years, ride the bench of whatever team he is on in the meantime, and any team he does get significant playing time for is destined for a top three pick every year.

By ray

May 28, 2008 5:38 AM | Link to this

Stevo, let me ask you something. YOU say that if we had taken Roy, we would’ve been 10 games better, right? Well here we are two years later, having had the 3rd and 11th pick last year…and we’re only 6 or 7 games better. Wow. Is this what you call addition by subtraction? I won’t even go into all the other reasons why that logic is severely flawed…you set of statements suggests that it would be a waste of time. Fact is, we got lucky as hell that both of our ping pong balls bounced outside of the range in which Phoenix would’ve had our pick. Geeeezzzz…I’m just not gonna go there….

By doc

May 28, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

wow, get to use a ding before 8 am to start the day.

some people might think of it as cynical, maybe it is just kinder to pass on that one.

By Raptors Fan in TO

May 28, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

Astro Joe: No, didn’t see any mention in the big papers myself. The only mention I could find on Ford’s neck exercises (or lack thereof) were on a couple of blogs, and they were comments posted by fans.

However, I DID dig up this article on Jose Calderon that might be of some interest in Hawks circles:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/Toronto/2008/05/16/5586001-sun.html

Whomever entertained the idea of Calderon being a Hawk, this opens the door a bit.

By stevo

May 28, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

ha ha

yes, ray, it is called logic, see if you can follow it:

2005-2006 record 26-56

add sheldon williams, go to

2006-2007 record 30-52

add al horford, go to

2007-2008 record 37-45

wow!! that is like 11 games better with horford than without from two years before (seeing as shelden added nothing). of course there are other factors and of course it is only supposition and projection, but it is hard to imagine if you take the rookie of the year and he performs as well as you are all b*** and moaning that he should have been performing for the hawks, then ten games is probably the minimum.

i know it takes away some of the whining possibilities that most of you enjoy, but you can’t have it every way. either you have paul OR williams OR roy OR horford. not all of them or even more than one of them. history is not static. especially when you are re-writing it.

and of that group, i would say paul for sure, but otherwise, i am happy with horford over roy and williams.

yes, the hawks got a little lucky with the ping pong balls with horford. but just a little moving from 4 to 3. if they had roy from the year before, it is unlikely they would have gotten 9 or 6 or 10 or, who knows, 18 to 3 lucky.

oh, and only one of our balls mattered for phoenix (the other of course was for indiana).

gee whiz beev.

anyway, you show yourself to be a pompous, ignorant fool most of the time here, so i will leave it at that. if you can’t see it, then you just confirm the latter pejorative.

oh, last thing. how many games did the blazers improve with roy during his rookie season? 11 games. wow…………

(yes, also aldridge, but mainly roy)

By Astro Joe

May 28, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

Raptors Fan, thanks. I saw that quote previously, I still think Colangelo will dump Ford instead.

Sekou, next time you talk to Gearon, mention this one word to him… RANDSTAD. Since he is essentially hiring a term-to-perm position, he needs to go to a temp agency to find GM candidates. Let’s face it, these guys realize that if Belkin gets the nod in about 8 months, they will be gone. It’s the reason BK was offered a 1-year deal (and I’m guessing Woody will also be offered 1 guaranteed year). Because it is a temp job until the February decision comes down, then after that, you either get a pink slip or maybe a permanent gig. How many reputable GM candidates are interested in a temp assignment? (And will things be remarkably different if Woody grows the stones to leave this mess?) So call Randstad and have them recruit folk who won’t mind baby-sitting the position for a few months. And tell Gearon to stop treating this like one of the other 29 GM positions. There are 29 NBA GMs and then eventually, there will be one Junior Achievement NBA GM, for our Atlanta Hawks.

By SSI Fan

May 28, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

SS

I wish I could remember the wording of the Order entered by the Judge in Maryland which restricted the ASG group from signing players to long term contracts without the consent of Belkin. It is my recollection that originally the Order said no contracts for longer than one year, but it was amended to allow for contracts of 3 years with the consent of Belkin. I know the lower court ruling that Belkin was entitled to buy out the other owners for the amount of their original investment was reversed on appeal, but I wonder if the restriction on signing long term contracts is still in effect. If it is then it surely restricts ASG from signing a general manager to a long term contract without Belkin’s consent.

The legal restrictions imposed by the ownership law suit and the uncertainty as to the result of that law suit are of paramount significance. Can you do an article about the status of that quagmire?

I tend to agree that prospective GMs are withdrawing their names because of the uncertainty. I know that I would not leave a good job to take one which, as has been mentioned, could be only temporary.

By Sautee

May 28, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Ando

Big Congratulations. Thanks for the update, and I hope she keeps up that sleeping schedule so you can attend the Liar’s Table.

Stevo

Please stay away if you have to call one of my favorite posters a “pompous, ignorant fool”. We all have differing opinions here, and there’s plenty of room to disagree without being personally disparaging.

Ray is MANY things, but pompous? No, he is more often self-depracating. Although, like Ando, he does like the sound of his own keystroke. Ignorant, HA! You don’t use terms like “Pyrrhic victory” (and spell it correctly)if you are ignorant. And if he’s a fool, he’s a fool for love - Hawks love.

His posts are consistently intelligent, cogent, and mostly on the mark. If you disagree, do so in a polite manner, so we don’t have to flame you.

doc

There’s such a thing as being too kind. And yes, my ears are ringing too (Old Age?) See you soon

peace

By Sautee

May 28, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

AJ

Hilarious! I particularly liked “Junior Achievement GM”. That’s perfect.

God help us if you’re right.

By Sautee

May 28, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

MannyT

Here, from your own post, is another possible sign-off acronym:

BLE - that is, bad looping experience. Looks like we’re headed down that road.

A subset of PAIN, perhaps?

By doc

May 28, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

can we assume by the “logic” presented that if we had gotten paul we would have had one of the better records in the east this year, advanced deep into the playoffs and not have a much to whine about as i am sure that is the only reason all of us come, all without horford? now who would want that? that is according to someone else’s logic and to continue further along that vein would the hornets would be moving from new orleans?

yep, straight line logic works every time and the improved play and the wins here had nothing to do with the growth or smash or chills. almost as simple as 2 plus 2 equals, well help me out here guys …. and i dont mean ray as he is too pompous to be able to get that one right.

aj, great post and it is either that or being a gm with training wheels.

By doc

May 28, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

can we assume by the “logic” presented that if we had gotten paul we would have had one of the better records in the east this year, advanced deep into the playoffs and not have a much to whine about as i am sure that is the only reason all of us come, all without horford? now who would want that? that is according to someone else’s logic and to continue further along that vein would the hornets would be moving from new orleans?

yep, straight line logic works every time and the improved play and the wins here had nothing to do with the growth or smash or chills. almost as simple as 2 plus 2 equals, well help me out here guys …. and i dont mean ray as he is too pompous to be able to get that one right.

aj, great post and it is either that or being a gm with training wheels.

By Astro Joe

May 28, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

AJC is reporting that the Hawks have hired Rick Sund (formerly of the Sonics) as our new GM.

He hired Bob Weiss as the Sonics Head Coach in 2005. Bob Weiss. Let that marinate for a few seconds.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

May 28, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

rick sund? really? i mean, really?

By doc

May 28, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

ok ando, what do you think, upgrade or a situation of be careful what you ask for?

By MannyT

May 28, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

cp I saw Stein’s article. At this point in sports, no one wants to be turned down. I’m sure the ASG would say they were looking at Grant, but didn’t make a final offer. Grant would say, he turned them down. I would guess that both wanted it to work their way and they could not find common ground.

Sautee

You are correct. PAIN is the Professional Ineffective Normalization = bad looping experience.

I can only hope that the ASG loops enough in this temp GM experiment that they realize, getting better means making a commitment to someone who can make a decision or two that will get us a more complete roster for the start of the season.

If the owners have made all the decisions already regarding all of our free agents, the existing roster, and coach, they should MAN UP and just admit that Gearon or whomever is acting GM for the upcoming season. Stop looking for a pawn to pimp on the sports corner.

Stop looking for the faux GM w******* and get a consultant/shadow GM on the side to help you with the rules. If you screw the pooch, stand up like Barkley and admit it. If they cannot decide on one consultant, they bring in a group and call them the Fantastic Atlanta Realignment Team, yup FART.

Since the only people that have to like Woody as coach are those that pay him, stick with your flawed plan and move on. Good implementation of a goofy idea is probably more critical to success than poor execution of a good idea.

I’ll be there for the upcoming season, but if this season becomes a collective ASG FART, I’m off the season ticket team in 2009.

Astro Joe You have made it all clear. There are many levels of Jr. Achievement—Jr. Hawks, Jr. Hawks Dancers, and now Jr. ASG GM program. I’m sure that they are signing up now.

If you worked in the basketball admin side and your contract was up at the end of June, wouldn’t you be looking for a new job right now!

I’ll reserve evaluation until it’s all done, but things are beginning to smell gaseous.

ray I’m still hoping for some good CRAP, but the PAIN smells more each day.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

May 28, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

joe -

when you said RANDSTAND they thought you meant RICKSUND. mistakes happen.

but now that he’s here, maybe he’ll sign jerome james to a 3-year deal again to solve our post problems…

oy.

By Matt

May 28, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Wow…they hired a former GM. Interesting move. Not a good pick in my view, though. He also comes from a wrecked organization and tends to favor old-school, hard-nosed coaches - which I think means that Woodson staying is a near-certainty. This is also the guy that let Nate McMillan walk after the team made the playoffs for the only time this decade, though…

As far as player personnel, he has been hit or miss - and with more misses than hits.

The Respectable: He traded the declining Payton for Ray Allen, which was a good trade in retrospect, even though it only netted one playoff appearance. The Allen trade was also smart, because the Sonics were going nowhere with him. Last year’s draft was pretty good; even if you remove the too-obvious selection of Durant from the equation, the selections of Green

The bad: His drafts were even worse than Billy’s. He drafted big man after horrible big man. None of them panned out. He also let Rashard Lewis to an overly-generous contract and then let him walk for nothing on the FA market.

Here are two silver lining facts about him: 1) He comes from a wreck of an organization. So he at least knows how to navigate troubled waters. 2) His name was repeatedly floated as someone who was in the running for the new Knicks GM position under Donnie Walsh. If Walsh really was looking at him (i.e. if you believe the chattering classes like doc does…heh, I’m just messing), that’s definitely a good sign. There’s a plausible argument to be made that Sund was truly their first choice - they might have wanted an apparently well regarded (if pretty unsucessful) and experienced GM rather than a rookie.

Ah well. I can already hear most of the crew around here tearing the hire apart. Here’s a summary of his moves for those who are interested: http://hoopshype.com/generalmanagers/ricksund.htm

By chuckw/deadjournalist

May 28, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Bob Weiss was destined to fail in Seattle - he didn’t have “Snoop” Graham at the 3 like he did in ‘91 and ‘92 in Atlanta.

By Clyde

May 28, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

(yawn)

By Ken Strickland

May 28, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Come on people, let’s stop all of this IF WE HAD GOTTEN PAUL OR ROY crap. We didn’t and that’s that. What we need to remember is we still have WOODSON, who would have likely made both of them much less effective than they are today.

Now that we have a new GM in place, what do you think are the chances of him being able to hire a new HC. Unless I’m mistaken, it’s not a matter or firing Woodson, it’s a metter of not renewing his expiring contract, right?

RAPTOR FAN-I was the latest one to bring up the possibility of trading for Calderon. HD ANDO, if I’m not mistaken, originally suggested the idea some time ago. I’ve also suggested we consider Ford as well.

However, I’ve been thinking about something MYKHALC said to me on the previous blog. He was suggesting we keep Bibby because ALaw should be ready to take over after next season. Personally, based on what I saw at the beginning of the season and during the playoffs, I think he can successfully take over next season, but under a new HC. Acie is a much better talent and can be much more productive than he’s been allowed to show under Woodson’s GET OUT OF PRISON ON GOOD BEHAVIOR style of non-coaching.

By Matt

May 28, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Correction to my earlier post. Sund was demoted last year before the draft (and thus the Allen trade) and before Rashard Lewis went to Orlando. So scratch that plus and that minus from my summary…

By MannyT

May 28, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Ken just remember that Bibby’s salary slot is our best chance to make a significant leap in the next 12-15 months. If traded, we need multiple players who can help us now.

If not traded, that $14-15MM is a GREAT cap slot to have for free agency next summer.

I hope Bibby starts the season with the Hawks.

I’m not going to rehash the Woody thing. Until I see either—a player truly develop under him to help JJ OR a winning season—I just don’t get the keep Woody folks.

Too much Woody = PAIN for young players and me.

By Matt

May 28, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Don’t think my last message took, so here ‘tis again:

We should just add “terrible evaluator of big man talent” as a general rule to Sund’s list of faults. The dude is like 0 for 10. Here’s the body count: Predrag Drobnjak, Calvin Booth, Peter Fehse, Jerome James, Vitaly Potapenko, Nick Collison, Robert Swift, Johan Petro, Chris Wilcox, Saer Sene.

And here’s the link to his GM history again.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

May 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

MannyT - I agree with you on Bibby and his salary impact next year.

There has been a lot of discussion about the draft picks that BK did or did not make, but to me, as big of a failure as been in free agency.

While signing big names may be sexy, the lack of solid, role players couldn’t have been more evident than last season. Not only was there little depth, but to Joe Johnson’s point, there weren’t the veteran guys who know how to perform to their role and execute on offense and defense.

I’ve said several times that I feel this off-season is critical for the next ten years of the Hawks franchise. Because if the team implodes and has to start over, it will be another nine years before we sniff the playoffs.

By Ramon

May 28, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

With this hire I KNOW Smoove is coming back, so I’m happy. If he gives out contracts like candy in a holiday parade, I couldn’t imagine him agreeing to terms without being promised that the Spirit are going to take out their wallet soon. Also he built the up and down Sonics team that made it to the playoffs. So he does know how to orchestrate a running team. Matt you said that he’s not good with big men, but Horford is already a gem here. Long as he doesn’t give 8 mil to someone for being 84 inches tall, we’ll be ok.

By roan st

May 28, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

I didn’t think it could get any worse than billy knight. Congradulations, Mr. Gearon, you have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and did the impossible, found a GM that makes billy knight look like a draft genuis. Abandon ship boys because the hawks are the titanic.

By mykhalc

May 28, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

not excited at all!!! but i wanna hear what his vision is and what he does with WOODSON!! but let’s face this IS the same cat that let NATE MCMILLAN walk!!! like i said, not excited at all!!!

man, i was/am not a BK hater. despite some of his draft picks, the fact that he tried to fire WOODSON last season makes him okay in my book. let’s me know he at least realized what a lot of us fans realize…WOODSON was not the one to take this team any further!!!

anyway, not excited at all!!!

By I.MUS WRITE

May 28, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Rick Sund-…..Hmmmmm not a bad choice for GM considering who’s left and who would actually come here.

Lets give the guy a chance……….But if He resign’s Woody -im gonna go ape s**!!!

Sund seems to have a liking for 7 footers .Which is exactly what we need for next season…….. Hopefully he will offer Diop the MLE and bring D.Anderson over-to go with the Joshes who will be resigned.

If we could get Avery or Del Harris that would be the icing on the cake.

By mykhalc

May 28, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

KEN, i agree that ACIE would need to be under a new HC IF he was given the reigns to this team. and again, i was ACIE #1 supporter before ANYONE!!! so i recognize his talents, no doubt.

but i ask you, who becomes our #2 REAL scorin’ option once BIBBY is traded like you suggest??? this is what you are over-lookin’ in my opinion!!

yes, ACIE has the talent. but he CANNOT score in clips like BIBBY nor does he have that kinda confidence in his game yet. so is MARVIN your #2 scorin’ option now??? SMOOVE??? AL??? who your backup PG now???

what you’ve done is effectively put the same ‘07-‘08 ‘start of the season’ team back on the floor!! the same team that had JJ explode in his start of the season interview with Sekou. well that team plus the players you gain in the BIBBY trade.

again, i’ll take the backcourt of BIBBY, JJ, and ACIE for ‘08-‘09. looks good to me despite BIBBY’s ‘08-‘09 salary!!!

By terrell barron

May 28, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Who? So now we get a guy who was demoted in Seattle! Seattle? Are you kiddin me? The only way I’ll be o.k. with it, is if he fires the Woodpecker. But if he does’nt, OMG!

By Astro Joe

May 28, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Right now, I’m feeling like this was a lateral move… BK to Sund. I’m struggling to see this as a clear upgrade or find reason to believe this guy is a visionary who will take us to unprecedented heights.

By Ramon

May 28, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

I believe somewhere in the states, BK is laughing his afro off. But I must say Sund is better than Gearon.

By ray

May 28, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

I’ll take experience over inexperience most days. Am I saying this is a good hire? Nope. Only time will tell that. ASTRO JOE may have pegged it as a lateral move. With that, I’d have to add that while this may indeed be true, we’re still changing “visions” as it were.

What can one say? Life is a series of trade-offs. While we endured a man who is enthralled with swingmen, we are apparently getting a man who is enthralled with centers. If this is true, I’ll have to say that at least he is focused on one of the more “pivota” positions (no pun intended…well, okay sort of intended). I’m sure somebody will disagree vehemently, but I don’t care…’tis a blog.

Well, we’ll see what pans out. As I said, I’ll take experience. Only for the simple reason that I’m tired of first-timers. Unless we were getting the absolute top-billed assistant GM in the league, there was no real reason to not go with experience. At the very, very least…the ASG managed to get something done immediately after two public “failures.”

Wait a minute…has the ink dried on that contract yet? Lest I speak too soon…

By Matt

May 28, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Ray,

You’re right that he’s enthralled with centers. Unfortunately, he appears to be enthralled with awful centers. I’ll say this much about Billy - at least he was enthralled with some good specimens of swingmen!

I think you’re right about the two biggest things - experience is usually better than inexperience, and at least ASG managed to get something done.

I’ll also find one more silver lining - in Seattle, Sund was tasked with building a new franchise basically from scratch - the same thing Knight had to do here. He was asked to collect the main pieces, not just to plug the holes. Maybe he’ll do better filling in the blanks than he did when he had to start from scratch.

By terrell barron

May 28, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

Manny T, Jerry still controls everything. He’s the GM and owner. Did you see him in the draft room? HE made the picks.

By kwooden1

May 28, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Looking at the Rick Sund’s draft record over his last three tries tells you why he got demoted. (I don’t think anyone of those guys should be playing in the league!!) Billy does look like somewhat of a genius in that case. My litmus test is firing Woody. If he wants to keep Woody or can’t fire him because of the ASG then he’s not the guy. If he can manage to get rid of Woody and find someone else, than at least I believe he can see the obvious. But he needs to leave those draft skills back in Washington and bring a new set to Georgia.

GO HAWKS!!

By ray

May 28, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, keep in mind who did the hiring. While we always cynically hope for better in the dark recesses of our minds, do we truly expect it? My reaction, however, is not unlike yours. Hello pot, my name is kettle…

Sautee, thanks for the kind words. I am well pleased for two reasons: 1)You read my post, and 2)I wondered if anybody would recognize that particular referrence to a piece of ancient history. I should’ve known that you would. That certainly speaks to both your education and your memory. Not that I doubted before, but this is further proof that I am dealing with a most potent and discerning individual that I would be most wise to maintain an alliance with. Perhaps in a few decades I can hope to cultivate and maintain a mind so subtle, yet so sharp.

Stevo, I might have been willing to debate this for the 500th time, despite the number of times I’ve called it a waste of time. I realize that perhaps I was harsh in the terminology I used to criticize your comments. However, I did not offer to call you names. I simply stated that I felt your logic is rather flawed (or at least incomplete, as you will see that Doc has made subtle mention of). I am but one of several here who have debated topics related to the draft, and the residual effects thereof. Pardon me if I’m sick to death of it. It’s like a car wreck: seen them plenty of times, don’t like the sight of them, but will nearly always slow down when I see one. Hence my reaction. But…the fact that you resort to calling me names (such as an ignorant, pompous fool) suggests a number of things to me. Perhaps you are not looking at the same picture, or the same size picture. I have learned over time that a few things are certain: 1)only those who are unable to support a strong opinion with facts resort to name-calling, especially that early in a discussion, 2)hypocrisy is rampant; calling people names is akin to the grade school adage of “I know you are, but what am I?”, and 3)Habitual name-calling is a symptom of idiocy, and no one can beat an idiot at their own game - they simply have too much experience. So…continuing down this path proves you to be no exception to the rule (referrence to my number 3).

In case you misunderstand…I’m not calling you an idiot. I’m saying that if you want to keep up the name-calling…I don’t have to…you’ve named yourself.

By doc

May 28, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

overall this is probably better than grant though a retread. not shaking things up in the world with this hire. meets the criteria i set forth two weeks ago for any hire. uninspired and no imagination and what is the red herring on the plate is how poorly he has done getting what we need, a big and a coach. i shook my head at the weiss hire when it happened and i shuddered to know that sund was the man who did the hiring of that mistake and is now our hgm. it didnt take too much time for him even to reverse that one as weiss lasted less than a year if i remember.

matt, i dont think this is the type of hire what you were so optimistic about as you confounded and derided my opinion of how things were going down but so it is.

what can be said for him and this may be his selling point is that he goes along with the program and knows how to watch a ship sink. now was that ship sunk deliberately by ownership to try and get it out of seattle? did he follow orders to the nth degree? is that what we can expect? we will know coming soon as the decision to resign woody is fast upon us, try to rehire the assistants without long term contracts possibly as we already had drew gone last year if he could have and get some kind of action for the joshes. there is a lot on the plate and most of it will be a known by the 15th of july.

By terrell barron

May 28, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

I see a trade coming. And no, I’m not psychic, I can just feel it! Will it be a sign and trade for Chill or Smoove? I doubt it. Could it be a player for a draft pick? Maybe? What about Salim and Zaza? Could they be moved? Or how about Marvin and Bibby’s contract for Calderon? Or maybe even Marvin to Portland for a draft pick and cash considerations. lol!! Hmmm? Something’s about to happen, and I just know it! Come on Sund, get yo’ a* to work. lol!!!

By terrell barron

May 28, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

Did’nt Seattle have a large ownership group when he was there? hmmm??? I know one thing, he should be used to not having the last say so. lol! He’ll fit in just fine. lol!!!

By mykhalc

May 28, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

i guess SUND figured he’d trade one court battle for another!! SEA vs OK CITY or BASG vs BASG (COKE vs COKE ZERO) idiots!!! but at least SUND got to pick his destination city with this move!!???

his WOODSON decision is the deal breaker for me!!!

By ray

May 28, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Matt, I agree and also found your initial (and following) takes on the hiring very sensible.

What are your thoughts on how this might affect Woodson? Going on nothing more than speculation (and Gearon’s words), I initially thought that Woody’s job is not part of the bargain. In other words, it would be Gearon’s decision ALONE. But does that apply to “new” GMs or first-timers? Would it apply to a guy who’s been in the game this long?

By Harry Hawk

May 28, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

I don’t know that Sund should immediately fire Woodson. It might be sporting to allow Woody to start the season as head coach and see how he does in the first twenty games or so. If the team struggles (which it likely will because it is resting on its laurels after such an amazingly stupendous 37-45 regular season record in ‘07-‘08), Sund can thank Woody for his wonderful contributions (loud guffawing in the background), name Larry Drew the interim coach, call up Avery Johnson to gauge his interest, and go from there.

(Bah. Who the hell am I kidding? Fire Woody, dammit!)

By terrell barron

May 28, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

In 2006 he selected Sene at 10th overall and Denham Brown in the 2nd. WOW! He did’nt pass on Roy and Gay for Sheldon, but he passed on Farmar, Carney, Rondo, Sergio, Marcus Williams, and Ronnie Brewer for Sene. And in the 2nd he took Denham Brown, and passed on Daniel Gibson, Paul Milsap, and Leon Powe. Yall woulda killed BK for that. And in 2005 he took Petro 25th overall amd passed on Maxiel, Kleiza, Turiaf, etc…. And in the 2nd he took Mickael Galabale. Who?????????

By Najeh Davenpoop

May 28, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

So we just hired a guy who left Detroit before they started becoming good and who left Seattle before they started rebuilding?

A guy who picked Robert Swift and Mouhamed Saer Sene in the lottery?

Outstanding.

I still hope and pray that one day, somehow, an Atlanta sports franchise other than the Braves can be run by people who don’t have their brains lodged in their rectum.

By MannyT

May 28, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Would you give up the call on the head coach (for a season) to get back in the GM game? I think so. Don’t be surprised if Woody has a teflon suit per ASG for this next season.

However, if Woody remains Woody, the job security goes, but it’s an ownership call during 2008-09 season.

This is a step sister kisser deal. Kind of a tie, but maybe there is more chemistry because you’re not really related. Sund isn’t better than BK in drafting. They seem to have similar skills. They are good at rebuild, no much demonstrated success at reloading. He trade record is longer, not better. Sund hasn’t done well hiring coaches, and he let Nate Mc walk north to haunt them several times a year.

tb Jerry controls everything, but he has realized that he doesn’t want to be neck deep in everything. The ASG seems to be on the other side of that mountain. This is the first major position they have filled since losing a hockey coach, an organization Pres (Bernie), a CFO (Bill Duffy), and what ever you call the hire they will make to cover for Waddell’s ball of confusion on the puck side. Jerry used to think the coach wasn’t very important after Jimmy Johnson left. His views changed when he went after Parcells. He still wants control, but he recognizes the need for talent in roles he will not carry out. Until the ASG gets out of the muck, you cannot get your pick of high quality staff or free agents.

You will know that we have turned the major corner, when we are real options for the “trolling for a ring” free agents.

Good luck Mr. Sund—make the fans happy…and get used to seeing the WAF.

By terrell barron

May 28, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Hey Doc, is that possible? Can you really have your brains lodged in your rectum? lol!!!

By MannyT

May 28, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Folks, the ASG do not have a Lyle Lovett card so there will be no outpunting their coverage at this time.

Until they demonstrate some stability/competence, there will be no top names coming here to work. The biggest names we will see on a regular basis in Philips are introduced to the crowd by Ryan Cameron.

If Sund does good CRAP in the next year, their application for the Lovett card will be re-evaluated!

By Ken Strickland

May 28, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Maybe I’ve been less that clear when I’ve suggested trading Bibby, and for that I apologize. I don’t want him traded just to be traded. I want him traded for a specific type of PG talent, like Calderon, Ford, etc. Otherwise, keep him and just ride the waves next season. Also, if we resign Smoove, forget the suggestions I’ve previously made about Pryzbilla as well. I DON’T WANT ANYONE TRADED UNLESS IT MAKES US BETTER ON BOTH ENDS OF THE COURT, PERIOD.

MYKHALC, and anyone else who’s blood pressure becomes elevated because of my rants about Woodson and trading certain players. I don’t want to say of suggest anything to upset any of you, especially you regulars. So, allow me to suggest something that will help lower the risk of anything like that happening, especially you DOC.

FIRST, FIND A CONFORTABLE SPOT, TAKE A DEEP BREATH, RELAX AND CLEAR YOUR MIND. THEN, ENVISION YOURSELF ON A SECLUDED BEACH, LYING ON A LARGE BLANKET NEXT TO A NAKED BEYONCE, OR HALLIE OR JESSICA OR…….WAIT AN MINUTE…THAT WOULD DO THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE WOULDN’T IT……NEVER MIND.

By terrell barron

May 28, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

His best draft was in 2003, when he took Collison and Ridenhour in the 1st, and Willie Green in the 2nd. However he passed on Travis Outlaw, David West, Kendric Perkins, Josh Howard, and Leandro Barbosa for Nick and Luke. This guy cant be that much better than BK, if at all!

By ray

May 28, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand why people expected to be excited. GM is not a position to be excited about. I think if you were expecting excitement, perhaps you were looking for the wrong thing.

It’s easy to pick the guy apart. In fact, pick a GM and look at his record. There’s at least one or two dum-dum moves if he’s been working long enough. You also find some good ones. The question is always what has that person done for YOUR team? We know what Billy did and didn’t do. Sund hasn’t done a thing yet. Hasn’t had the chance. Am I defending him? Nope. Rest assured that I will be right next to everyone else waiting to roast him if he screws the pooch. And if not, then we gotta give credit where it’s due, right?

We really don’t know about the Woodson thing. Several of us have expressed our displeasure at his “so far” continued employment. But we shouldn’t judge Sund by whether or not he’s allowed to let Woody go. No GM should be judged by that one thing. Why? Because if Woody is wearing ASG teflon, then that’s all there is to it. Reflects nothing on the GM if ownership makes an ultimatum. I mean, would you think he’s the right guy if he insisted on Woody going? What if that meant not having the job anymore (effectively either leaving Gearon in charge, or making him go on the hunt for yet another candidate). No, this isn’t the way to judge the guy. Besides, MannyT said it best: would you be okay with Woody staying as long as you could get the job? Nobody said how long he gets to stay. You can always agree to “situation assessment” as you go along. That would be a compromise that I would make.

By mykhalc

May 28, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

KEN, this franchise is gonna make us all crazy!!!LOL and Ken, you know i respect your opinions no matter how we may differ at times!! nothin’ but respect bro!!!

By cp

May 28, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Maybe this will work out but whenever Billy Knight has more success in drafting players than you, then it’s not a very good look.

By terrell barron

May 28, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Ray, I dont recall you ever saying that about BK? He’s made some dum dum moves too, but he’s also made some pretty good ones. So why did’nt you support him? Just curious? Everyone use to cream me when I use to take up for Billy, saying that he was’nt the best, but definately not the worst.

By SalimFan

May 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

Dammit!! I was at work all day right. So I get home about to devour some left-over pizza in the fridge and i’m watching Kia NBA shootaround and at the bottom of the screen it says whe hired who??? WTF is going on people. He did sign Ray Ray right, and drafted Luke Ridnour???? Well at least he’s legit….for now.

At least we know that the ASG won’t let him make stupid decisions, but hopefully they’ll just STFU when he’s making a good one for the betterment of the franchise.

By doc

May 28, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

rectum cerebrum terrell.

ken, you got a guffaw that left my daughter sayig you guys have waaaay too much fun. btw, it seems like you have gone for astro’s soft porn file. i just hope you dont get into his hard stuff or they will shut this thing down again like they have tried to do twice in the last two or so weeks. shame that a “woody” gets in the way of a long solid hawk basketball tumescence period for the adoring fandom.

ray, stop laughing!!!! this is serious stuff, you too myk.

By Astro Joe

May 28, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Ray, I disagree with you about not getting excited about a GM hire. I’m guessing that Toronto fans were thrilled when Colangelo joined their team. Knicks fans rejoiced at the arrival of Walsh. I’m even guessing that Sonics fans were somewhat happy to see a newbie with ties to the Spurs join their team (for those foolish enough to believe the team would stay for longer than a season or 2). I would have been excited to see someone like Fratello join the team and try his hand at GM. Walt Perrin has a nice pedigree in Utah. Heck, Billy King has drafted well and hired well, he just spends too freely on contracts (which would not have been a problem here). But Rick Sund? Kind of feels like we punted on 4th and inches from the 50. I sincerely hope that the ASG is confident enough in his 3 decades of front office experience to give him a decent budget and stay out of his way.

By drmaryb

May 28, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Hello People:

I see the box is open to post a comment on here. Anyway, I am like ray-star on this new GM hire. I don’t know much about him, but I think he probably would draft a point guard and if we needed one and if CP3 (ahem! cough! cough!) was sitting right there and staring back at him. At least, I sure do hope so. I certainly would have taken him at 3.

There’s not much to talk about Hawks-Wise until something great happens and until we put some winners on that floor. Next year looks no different from this past year from where I am sitting right now!

We need a #5 people! When are we gonna get one of those?

What’s up Doc, Mykhal, Jami$$on and Najeh…where is RichBrave? probably on Dave Obrien’s blogging ‘bout them’ Braves…LOL!

Later…People…no Action on Here!

By Sautee

May 28, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

terrell barron

I’m not psychic either but I do have espn.

Astro Joe

Would any GM candidate that would actually come here be exciting to any of us?

I’d LOVE to have been excited by the hire.

Oh well. Sigh. Big exhausted sigh.

BLE Manny? Time will tell.

By ignition

May 28, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Well, we’ll have to see … I don’t trust anything and with the history of the Hawks .. At least the cat has had some success in the past & is not a straight of joke like that Grant guy..

By doc

May 28, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

check it out:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=3416035

By MannyT

May 28, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

The biggest fact that became clear today…most people would rather live in metro Atlanta than Oklahoma City.

Sautee you got it. I fell like the kid that runs home and says…look I got a C on my test! All the honor roll kids try not to laugh in my face and the short bus kids say WOW.

Here’s the Seattle newspapers announcement about Sund. Note his draft prowess. Glad that this year is fantasy draft, so he can practice.

terrell I was right there with you in BKs corner. Not great, not horrible and definitely better than Babcock.

Unless I get a big surprise, in a few years I’ll say Sund—not great, not horrible and not that much different than BK except he chats with the media more (which implicitly devalues the GM chats for the season ticket holders. They were much more valuable with a GM that didn’t talk much in public.)

mykhalc will he raid the Sonics for mediocre big men or the Warriors for quick shooter/scorers?

Not that I am more cynical than the average blogger here, but Woody and his staff are scouting in Orlando. about 2/3 through article Will he play anyone that we can get as an undrafted free agent?

Time for the Mouse House WAF.

By Matt

May 28, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

First, a non-Hawks thing. Win or lose, I LOVE the way these Pistons are playing defense in the crunch. They are just downright nasty when they run their trapping D late in games. And hey - it’s a great way to create transition opportunities, and thus ideal for a team that want to run more. Woodson should have realized this by now, but noooo…

Ray, I dunno what this means for Woodson. On one hand, since he’s SUCH an experienced hand (and, well, because Gearon said so), I suspect that he has free hand to decide who to have as coach. He also says in the ESPN piece that doc* just linked to that “we have some work ahead of us,” which indicates that he’s going to make some changes. Then again, as I said, Sund seems to favor old school, hard-nosed coaches (like Woody). So I don’t know whether the changes Sund has in mind are in player or coaching personnel.

We shall see. In any case, I pray the Hawks are watching the way the Pistons are playing D down the stretch tonight. They might be losing now, but this is EXACTLY the type of D that a team full of long and quick players should be running when they want to establish a favorable pace.

By Matt

May 28, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

I also can’t help but wonder what Acie would do if he and Stuckey switched places. Acie is so clutch and I can’t help but think he’d thrive in the Pistons’ system backing up Billups.

By ray

May 28, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

terrell barron, I didn’t do it a whole hell of a lot, but I did give Billy credit for drafting Horford and Acie. I hated nearly all of his free agent moves and most of his draft moves. But, I also repeatedly gave him credit for getting Bibby, and for trying to can Woody. The difference, as I mentioned before, between him and Sund is we know what BK has done here. Sund has yet to do anything here, and I’m willing to give him the same chance I gave Billy when he first got here: what will you do for OUR team? Rest assured, if he messes things up, I will be just as hard on his a$$ as I was with Billy. And you’re right, Billy did make some good moves. But his moves weren’t the only reason I didn’t like him. Just a personal opinion…

Matt, agree about the Pistons. Hell of a team. LOVE their “D”, always have (even when it was kicking my team’s a$$). As for Sund, let’s hope he likes hard-nosed coaches with solid plans, not just hard-headed coaches. I just have a hard time seeing how Woody can even explain how he would use the pieces he has…I mean, his “style” whatever the hell it is, JUST DOES NOT FIT THIS TEAM. It fits JJ….that’s all.

By ray

May 28, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Think you’re right, Matt. Acie has potential. He’s got size. He’s got instinct. Too bad he’s got Woody….(and no I don’t mean A woody).

By ray

May 28, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

Damn. Pistons nearly pulled that one off. One of the keys to the game was getting McDyess into so much foul trouble..he had been causing the Celts a lot of trouble. Also, Rasheed hasn’t shown me much of anything special lately.

The Celts are beginning to show just how good they really are (seeing as how it was their first truly hard test in the playoffs). Garnett finally showed himself to be the other-wordly talent with 33 points. The inconsistent Perkins showed up tonight with a dominating performance that he should be able to do more often than not. And Ray Allen found his groove.

Geez, how good is Rajon Rondo? Playing against a hard-charging Billups and the kid doesn’t shoot well, and runs into some foul trouble…but what can be said about 13 assists, 4 steals, and just one turnover?

By ray

May 29, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

MannyT,

I know you’re worried about magic beans, but I find the fact that the coaching staff and new GM are actually in Orlando….encouraging. Why? Because it means that no one is ruling out the idea of acquiring somebody that will be down there auditioning. Personally, I’d not let Woody within a mile of the place these young players will be, but I don’t make the decisions around here. Still, it’s never a bad thing to have a look at these guys. I’m hoping that this means we try to get involved smartly. It probably also means that if we do get involved with the draft, it will be the bottom half of the first round and anywhere in the second. We could add a good young prospect that way, especially if unloading someone we’re already not using. Of course, I wouldn’t take Woody’s advice on anything where the draft is concerned.

By Matt

May 29, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

Ray,

Rasheed is an enigma. You said he hasn’t shown you much lately…but dude hit 6 treys tonight!

Tonight’s game was a heartbreaker. But I honestly came away at the end of tonight’s game in Boston with a good feeling about the Pistons because they owned the fourth quarter despite ‘Sheed’s technical, Rip’s injuries (eye and arm), and McDyess’s foul-out.

That being said, it now looks unlikely that what my professor termed the “cognizati Finals matchup” (i.e. an ‘05 Finals rematch) will happen. But the way those Pistons played down the stretch in one of the nation’s toughest arenas for road teams…you gotta think they’ll push this one to 7.

As for the Spurs, it’s damned near impossible to win 3 straight and 2 on the road against these Lakers. But these are the Spurs, and these are the playoffs. I honestly think that if the Spurs can somehow find a way to win at the Staples Center tomorrow night, they’ll scrap a game 6 win in the Alamo City. And then it’s a game 7. And these are the Spurs.

That’s what you gotta love about these NBA playoffs. Momentum, confidence, and poise matter SO much.

Playoff basketball. It’s like the man said - I LOVE this game!

By MannyT

May 29, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

Wasn’t Woody supposed to bring much of that Detriot championship defensive prowess with him?

Wasn’t the knock on Flip that he was not a defensive guy. Looks like Woody left his playbook in the D and Flip actually read it.

Great game! Good CRAP for the NBA fan.

By Malone

May 29, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

I got a hunch that Sund fires Woody.

Who does he hire? Drew? Another name or perhaps, retread?

By mykhalc

May 29, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

gotta believe it’ll go 7. missed the game. the SUND hirin’ required i take a nap!!!LOL but i’ll watch the replay of the 4th qtr. gotta luv DET, kinda. they are probably the only team that really does know how to turn it on regardless of how they played earlier in a game.

Matt, gotta agree with ya. gonna be real hard to damn near impossible to beat the LAL 3 str8 games.

i did wake from my nap feelin’ better about the SUND hire, for some reason!!! MannyT, i really hope he brings somethin’ from the west coast to this team. like maybe realizin’ where the strength of this team is…say ‘uptempo’ ball!!! and a coachin’ change!!!!!

By cp

May 29, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this

I find it funny that Woody is down in Orlando looking at young talent. It’s not like he would use them even if we found a way to get into the draft. I hope Sund looks over some of the games this year where Woody had the team unprepared. Then he should talk to players like Josh Smith, Acie, Solo, Mario, Richardson and so on and ask them how they fell about Woody. If he does all that and still does not fire Woody then we might as well give Woody a new deal because he wont be going anywhere any time soon.

By richbrave

May 29, 2008 6:58 AM | Link to this

cp:

So you’re sayin’ this is a players league, and the “boss” is in fact a hired hand of the players and serves at their pleasure.??

By roan st

May 29, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this

Well folks look at the bright side, at least he can’t screw up this years draft. lol!

This hire was the result of the on going court battle, or dark cloud hovering, which prevented the hawks from getting an ideal candidate. ESPN has reported that both the spurs assistant GM and chris grant turned the job down. Chris freakin Grant said no! What does that tell us about the state of this franchise. Rick Sund was the fall back candidate so none of us should be suprised at such a lackluster hire. Doc, I know you understand the ramifications of this unsettled lawsuit because I have read you’re commentary on the subject. This team will never reach it’s potential until this legal mess is resolved.

By Matt

May 29, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

Roan,

ESPN has the most godawful track record on reporting NBA rumors. They were the ones that cooked up that Amare trade last year - which NO one else (Suns, Wolves, Hawks, or other journalist) backed them up on. So I honestly don’t think that Grant turned them down. As for Lindsey, Sekou himself said that the timing of Lindsey’s announcement was fishy and suggested that the Hawks were about to reject Lindsey and so Lindsey may have “quit before he was fired” so to speak.

I’m sorry. I’m just sick of people STILL assuming that everything they read by Marc Stein, sports’ answer to the National Enquirer, is true. And people spinning everything that happens through the lens of their own “ASG sux” worldview.

By doc

May 29, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

sensible interview on the 680 band width his am with gearon, jr.

seems sund is the guy to make the decisions, including woody. gut says he will keep him on a short leash unless he has a guy in mind already and essentially signed. he has fired folks in mid season so i am not worried there except it means another season lost if he does.

i am not totally enamored with this hire because of his track record with draft choices nor his lack of ability to get the creative coaches. what i do like is he is not a guy who appears to jump around and i think this organization would like to be as stable as it can be considering the circumstances. he does have connections hopefully he is smart enough to know truth from smoke.

they say they want both joshes for the long term and the acquisition of bibby shows they are committed financially to this team. we will see how this is enacted.

By ray

May 29, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

I believe Gearon when he says he wants both Joshes. But that’s what you’re going to hear from the owner. That’s also what you’re going to hear from a fan. Gearon just happens to be both. This is why you hire a guy to actually analyze things with a cold eye and make sensible (an unemotional) decisions. In a perfect world, we get to keep the Joshes and add whatever pieces we need to reach the next level. This is so f’in far from a perfect world….or haven’t ya noticed?

Difference between Grant and Sund:

1)Sund has been heavily into player personnel since the age of 28.

2)Grant has been into coaxial cables since the age of 25.

3)I can imagine how Grant got to be a video intern:

Interviewer: “Do you know what a coaxial cable is?”

Grant: “Huh?”

Interviewer:” A coaxial cable. It’s long. Well, some are longer than others. It helps you make a connection.”

Grant: “Where I come from, we call that something else.”

Interviewer: “Oh dear…Look, I’m supposed to hire you as a favor, but you don’t seemt to know your a$$ from a hole in the ground. Let’s try a different question. I’ll try to go along with what is obviously your line of thinking. (Pulls out a very short coaxial cable for Grant to see). Okay. What’s the difference between this and your…uh…your…ahem…your, you know what…

Grant: “Well, that’s definitely a hell of a LOT longer…I mean, uh…it has two ends instead of one?”

Interviewer: “Congratulations. You’re hired.”

Nope. Not my general manager, thankyou very much….

By ray

May 29, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Roan, ESPN is the source for what has happened after everybody else knows what has happened. Marc Stein is an idiot and will jump on any rumor that sounds juicy enough.

Trust me on this, the two public failures to get a GM (Lindsey and Grant) were indeed failures, but NOT for the reasons you think they were. It’s all spin, baby, all spin…

By femhawkfan

May 29, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

I guess I will go ahead and throw my two cents on the matter. I am not going to make to many judgements on this Sund guy, yet. My concern is how will he handle the coach situation and the Joshes. Once he makes those decisions, both of which will have long term effect on the organization, I will be able to make some type of judgement. I am still up in the air on the Woodson situation(he did improve every season, but he hasn’t had a winning season). But I definitely think they should do everything possible to keep the Joshes.

By terrell barron

May 29, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

The Bulls will name Doug Collins Head Coach today. WOW! He could’nt get it done with Jordan, and they want him back? UNBELEIVABLE. The Bulls fans must be going crazy right about now. lol!!!

By Astro Joe

May 29, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Well I certainly prefer Sund over Grant. But it is still disconcerting that the choice was between General Dollar and Dollar Tree. But such is life with these owners.

By terrell barron

May 29, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

I guess it might have been a pretty good hire. Who else is out there? No big name GM’s that I can think of. Lets give the guy a chance. That’s all we can do, at this point. And btw, I know why Woody’s in Orlando? So he can be fired via satellite. lol!!

By cp

May 29, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Matt when I posted the ESPN article I said myself that its coming from ESPN so I dont know how true it is. ESPN has been full of it for a while but since it was Hawks news I posted it. A lot of the guys over there just throw a crazy rumor out there to see if it sticks. I have no idea what happened with Grant and the Hawks, I was only posting a story.

richbrave my post came in reaction of what Sund said. I probably should have been clearer. He said something about sitting down with the players and etc. My comments were basically saying that if he listen to the players only about 2 would probably have something positive to say about Woody. There has been plenty of coaches who lost their jobs because of the players.

By doc

May 29, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

doug collins might have been a consideration here just because sund has worked with him before. kind of glad that name is not on the list.

By ray

May 29, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Hmmph.

By Astro Joe

May 29, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Doc, I was wondering about Bill Laimbeer and Alvin Gentry, from Sund’s tenure with the Pistons. And of course, Dwayne Casey, who was probably the top Sonics assistant at some point while Sund was in Seattle. It will also be interesting to see who he hires as his assistant GM. It needs to be a great talent evaluator, because from all indications, that’s an area of weakness.

By doc

May 29, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

must be someone pretending to be ray …. way too short of a response.

By Sautee

May 29, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

doc

maybe he got writer’s cramp

By doc

May 29, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

yup astro, many possibilities with his background if he is given a long enough leash. i still dont know what the problem is with lambeer and who he must have antagonized as he shows a desire to make it to the coaching seat if he is going to coach the ladies. didnt van gundy start as a high school coach? agree he may need some help with the draft picks but if you include reggie evans and wilkins to his list he has 8 of 18 which includes a few second rounders.

sautee, heh heh heh, brain cramp might be more like it or writer’s block.

By richbrave

May 29, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

cp:

I was just askin’. And I agree, plenty of coaches have been fired because a superstar has wanted that person gone. So if AL HORFORD said Woody sucks, he’d be gone.?

Cool.!!So AL, pLEEEE-Z-Z-E say it!!!!

By richbrave

May 29, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

SEKOU SMITH:

Loved your article on SUND. Good job. BTW CUSTER had a plan too.!!

By richbrave

May 29, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

drmaryb:

How’s the most important member of the most successful franchise in Atlanta.?? The XPLOSION has done just that to many. And you have an integral hand in that success.

Been finishing that thesis. Just got to add a VITA and an ABSTRACT. Its approved. I finally get that wall-size sheepskin. Woo-woo. So do I change my poster-up name to doc??

Now to unblock several arteries, and I’ll be down next spring for a Hawks game with doc, you and the rest of the regular attendees in Phillips.

By Ramon

May 29, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

Steve Smith would be a great Assistant GM or Greg Anthony.

By mykhalc

May 29, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

guess we need to keep JJ away from SUND for awhile!!! wouldn’t want SUND to get the wrong impression about WOODSON!!!! let our player/coach BIBBY handle this one. i’m sure he can give accurate critique!!!!

By Samuel

May 29, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Cuz,

Kenny Smith, Steve Smith, Greg Anthony, Mark Jackson and we get Rick “Freekin” Sund. WTF!!!I’d rather have AfroMan back. Rick Sund.

I guess the good ole boy network is still in full effect.

Cuz, you missed a good time this weekend. Tupelo was well represented as Big Red and the crew finally made it to the ATL.

We started it off with them largemouth and bluegill fillets and from there we went to the famous smoked Turkey and Finally the BBQ Chicken and Mama’s potatoe salad.

Really proud of the son. He finished with a 3.5 gpa and is on his way to Tuskegee this Fall.

Rick Sund.

By Ramon

May 29, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

I wish Woody could take a back seat for a season in order for Hubie Brown to come for one season, show him how its done, and retire again.

By Matt

May 29, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

Samuel,

Like I said a couple weeks back, the Hawks needed a suit who knows how to make deals. Former players don’t fit the bill. Race and “good ‘ole boy” networks don’t even enter the equation.

Here’s the equation. If the choices are:

1. Rick Sund…
2. Billy King…
3. A former player with no front office experience…OR
4. More Billy Knight…

I choose Sund. Black, white, purple, or green. Doesn’t matter. A colorblind man picks Sund.

By Sautee

May 29, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

I see that the trolls are out again.

By Sautee

May 29, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Ray

Hey man, if that was your one word post at 4:27, doc and I were just kidding about your long-windedness.

Rave on, please, I tend to love it.

Matt

Yeah IF those are the choices. Like AJ said Dollar General or Dollar Tree.

Or maybe a used Corvair or a beat up Yugo.

No that’s unfair. How about a Chrysler K-car or a used Taurus.

By Matt

May 29, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Sautee,

No doubt. I was more trying to refute the notion that ASG was just going after a good ol’ white boy and avoiding talented prospective black prospects for the job. I didn’t think that was the case. That’s all.

By doc

May 29, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

this is interesting:

“With the benefit of instant replay, it appears a foul should have been called,” NBA spokesman Tim Frank said.

sad, the only misinformation there is the point about benefit of instant replay being a deciding factor. only one person there pretended to not know it was a foul and how he could sell it was a crime because crawford knew it as well making it zero folks there thought it wasnt a foul.

this is soo like the nba to come out after the fact and make a ruling like this and not take the game back to that point because of egregious error on the part of a known incompetent ref. didnt they make the hawks pay big money and do a replay to correct it?

it isnt like it had to be a shooting foul which it wasnt. it was plain as day he had no opportunity to make a play with fisher hanging on him, then to say it is all about selling a call to determine games. funny now they think they can do away with flops by fining folks if they do it and a foul is called because it was sold well? now what does that say, refs are bad and cant do it themselves? also by making calls at the end of games the defense cant play muggers and expect to get away with it if the player drawing the foul legitimately doesnt sell it.

i am ready to have the game played by players and not by actors or determined by refs. we have deluded ourselves to think a non call is allowing the players to decide the fate of the game. whether we want to believe it or not the lack of a call meant the players didnt get to decide it fair and square. that game was decided by only one man crawford and to use the line the lakers deserved it because they played better means that maybe after a game we should have a vote and decide if the deserving team won. stupid logic to cover a tremendous flaw in thinking.

now lets see if the tnt boys back track on this one or ignore it.

By Samuel

May 29, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Come on now,

Rick Sund?

By Sautee

May 29, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

doc

The worst part is not that Crawford is incompetent, but that he already was suspended for his “attitude” toward Duncan. One would think that he wouldn’t even be scheduled to ref Spurs games!

The league has a much bigger problem with the credibility of refs than they are apparently aware of.

Or maybe they are aware and this mea culpa is a bandaid.

Of course we couldn’t know what “Sheed said last night when he got T’d up, but he had a legitimate beef about Pierce knocking Stuckey (or was it Hunter) with his lower body. Calls like that make us wonder.

And I’m NOT a conspiracy theorist, just disgusted that so many calls are missed both ways.

And yes, of course it’s the playoffs, and everyone would like a flowing game and not a free throw parade. But when your credibility has been put to the crucible, it seems you’d have a higher degree of awareness that you are under a different level of scrutiny than ever before.

By Sautee

May 29, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Matt

Yeah, I knew what your point was. And I remember your “suit” post and thought it was perfect.

I just hope this isn’t “Suit Lite”.

Or maybe “suit lite” is the best that BASG can do.

Although if Sund cans Woody, I’ll be much more willing to give him the benefit of a LOT of doubt.

By richbrave

May 29, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

SAUTEE:

Well I’m up for a conspiracy. I think the STERN-house apology goes right along with my earlier comments about LeBRON surviving the WIZARDS. The league wants the T.V. gate. And that’s the biggest draws for as long as possible. He!! yes, the NBA put this putz in to do just what he did. And wouldn’t you know at the end it was his call. SURPRISE, SURPRISE SURPRISE, GOMER. Phew, this bilge reeks!!!! Apology my azz.!!!!

By doc

May 29, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

according to the broadcasters at tnt, crawford grades out as one if their best which is frightening to say the least.

it would have been good theatre to have barry at the line wanting to desperately make the free throws with all that pressure, goat or hero. it was straight out of the clair bee stories i grew up on.

By MannyT

May 29, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

doc the after effects of Tim Donahee are going to do odd things to this game. If you take out most of the contact, it’s a college all star game. If you make it consistent throughout, a lot of the late game intensity of the NBA gets diluted into the earlier parts of the game.

What’s a fan to do?

Mark Bradley has a decent pitch to Rick Sund. I am convinced that most of the better candidates are either gone or not interested in the Hawks coaching job if Woody goes, so he gets the short extension. A bigger question mark for me—the status of the assistant coaches. If you had a foot out the door last season, do you go or take a one season extension in hopes getting an interim head coaching opportunity if things go wrong. hmmmmmmmmmm

For all y’all complaining about the stature of Rick Sund, I remind you of a key point that stopped an illustrious blogger over a month ago.

Did you really think you were going to get a top GM candidate? HA HA HA HA

Just chip in and get him some Sund-glasses with ASG resistant coating.

Hopefully he can get a useful free agent or two this summer with that mid-level exception money. Otherwise, you may want a sign and trade for one of the Joshes to bring in a decent player or two while managing payroll.

On another note, don’t forget the Open House/Select a seat on Saturday 5/31. I believe that Philips will be rocking at least through Thanksgiving. If we get a little momentum, it could be a great place to watch a game next season. I enjoy seeing the blog universe in person at halftime.

Time to get some good fan CRAP going.

By doc

May 29, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

manny t i am still on the fence a bit. be playing soccer dad as my youngest plays in the state soccer cup this weekend in columbus. enjoy and maybe save me a seat. heh heh

By Sautee

May 29, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

richbrave

No offense, but I hope and pray that you are wrong. Otherwise we’re watching pro wrestling, and there’s no real point. I do agree that it smells funny.

And wasn’t it the late, great Lewis Grizzard who said “I think it’s kinda funny how the same folks who think Neil Armstrong’s moonwalk was staged think that “rasslin” is real”.

NOT accusing you of that of course, just “musing amusing”.

peace

By mykhalc

May 29, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

WOODSON is delusional…PERIOD!!!

SUND and DREW have past history huh??

as cp said earlier, hopefully SUND sees enough in tape to realize just how handicapped WOODSON’s coachin’ is!!! hopefully he’ll realize that despite a playoff appearance, this team really did underachieve at 37 wins!!! and a LOT of that is/was on WOODSON…PERIOD!!!

By richbrave

May 29, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

SAUTEE:

Gave up on rasslin’ with Gorgious George. But I see a nasty continuum when I sniff and follow the money that is the NBA.

Been accused of being Lewis Grizzard-like in my teaching style by Atlanta expatriates. Wish I had known the man. Of course, you’re saying that a belief in conspiracy is anything but Mr. ATLANTA-JOURNAL CONSTITUTION. I’ve seen a lot.

Sorry man, I’m a firm believer in the old adage ending with “… absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

In this case I have to substitute “money” for “power” as they are one and the same in my mind.

By Matt

May 29, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

Spurs have been giving up offensive rebounds again. They blew a big lead again. It’s all getting too familiar.

I’m too disgusted with the Spurs to be disappointed. I always loved them because they carried themselves like champions. But during this series, they didn’t play like champions, and they didn’t deserve to win.

By MannyT

May 29, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

doc best of luck with the futbol…and hopefully a gggoooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaallllll or two for your youngest, unless the kid is the goalie!

How about those Lakers. While they were not my pick, they seem to have the magic touch this season.

The worse part of this is the end of the TNT coverage. No more late night with Charles Barkley until November.

Now that’s the end of some good entertainment CRAP.

By doc

May 29, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

well matt they had class at the end and class to not moan over the spilt milk in san antoine. they also looked tired at the end of it all and ready for vacation.

now who do you like lakers with phil or either of the other teams with doc and flip as coaches?

i’ll go with the zen man.

By doc

May 29, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

manny t i too will miss the big guy and would be willing to have him step in for skip and do a few braves games even though he doesnt know any baseball i suspect.

By doc

May 29, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

manny t i too will miss the big guy and would be willing to have him step in for skip and do a few braves games even though he doesnt know any baseball i suspect.

By Samuel

May 30, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

Guys,

Yes, it was a foul but bottom line is the Spurs didn’t get beat by the officials nor does any team ever get beat by the officials. The Lakers were just better, period.

They have the best team, the best coach and the best player. It’s their year.

Rick Sund?

By Melvin

May 30, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

Drew use to work for Sund in Detroit. I wouldn’t be surprise if he gives Woody a one year ext and a tight roop just in case he underachieve at the begining of the season. Giving Drew the reigns for the remainder of the season.

By MannyT

May 30, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

doc I would actually watch Barkley do commentary on baseball and I’m not a fan of the game.

Note commentary Sekou did with Seattle beat writer—Brewer—about Sund.

Now this just cracked me up-ROTFLMAO. See Brewer response #4 and tell me BK isn’t LHAO. Maybe I still get my GM exclusive info from season ticket holder meetings.

mykhalc You know I agree 100% that Woody is not the long term answer. However, I do believe he will be back with at least a one season extension. I am not so sure about the assistants. I can see one to three of them moving on to better, more secure offers.

As for Woody—There can be only one! He is Woody McLeod from the clan McLeod…the hoops WAFfer

By mykhalc

May 30, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

MannyT, and there is the problem. IF SUND is eyein’ DREW then there is no way he can offer WOODSON and his staff a 1 yr extension. gotta offer somethin’ more substantial or cats will walk to better as you’ve said.

so if WOODSON is offered a 1 yr then SUND has his eye on someone NOT on his staff already.

for some reason, i think WOODSON is out!!! just a feelin’!!!! a wish too but more of a gut feelin’ on this one!!! and i did not feel that way before the SUND hire!!!

By doc

May 30, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this

samuel, the comments werent about the teams involved merely the presence of such a rediculous play on such a great stage.

the statement it makes about the whole of the league is what most are referring to not specifically it was against the spurs. yes the lakers are good and i said it at the time. it harkens back to when the heat won the championship, lousy officiating where the better team truly didnt win that year because it was 8 against 5. i can say that even though i am a shaq fan and that team was an even older replica of what the spurs are today to have won a championship. officiating is allowed to play too large a role because there is so much of the star system in play and the media requirements is what i suspect. it may just be incompetence though i doubt it and think it is more of how they are taught to call the game.

By Matt

May 30, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Now that the Spurs are kaput, what do y’all think of signing away the newly-unrestricted Big Shot Rob? I know he’s 37, but he does a few things: 1) Adds a solid player to the big man rotation (Horry is 6’10) to spell Horford and Zaza, 2) gives you a deep threat who you know will still knock down the shots when it counts most, and 3) gives you a crafty, cool-headed veteran presence who still has one year left in the tank on both ends of the floor.

I’m certainly not proclaiming Horry to be some kind of savior. Word has it that he’s not the most vocal guy off the court. But if you want a cool, steady veteran presence at a reasonable price (he only made $3.5M last year) who knows what it’s like to win, Horry’s a pretty good bet.

Oberto is a free agent too, but…no.

By Sautee

May 30, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

Samuel

From your 12:08 am post:

“Yes, it was a foul but bottom line is the Spurs didn’t get beat by the officials nor does any team ever get beat by the officials. The Lakers were just better, period.”

Sorry, man but I have to say that while yes, the Lakers are a better team…

if no team EVER gets beat by the officials why is Donaghy in jail? Could he have been convicted if no team EVER gets beat by the refs?

Gotta be careful with those absolutes.

And for richbrave lest you think I’m going over to the dark side of conspiracy, I think that ref bias CAN cause a game to be lost, BUT that doesn’t necessarily mean that the bias was part of a grand plan to have certain teams win.

By MannyT

May 30, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Matt If Horry does not sign for another year with the Spurs, he’ll either go to a contender or sit out. He either wants another ring or a pile of cash for limited work. We don’t offer either.

Mykhalc While Sund might be similar to BK, I doubt he tanks Woody. He will take some in season time to get more (or less) comfortable with the coach. It might be the need to hold/attract decent assistants that gets Woody a 2 yr extension. It will just cost the ASG more if they let him go halfway through the season.

Just because Sund knows Drew doesn’t mean much. Would you hire everyone you like or know? As long as Sund has been around, he probably knows most of the NBA assistants.

If Sund had been here a year ago, I would not be surprised if he had tried to let Woody go and elevate Drew as the interim coach.

Short term PAIN is likely the route to a longer road paved with good intentions or good CRAP?

By mykhalc

May 30, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

like i said, just a gut feelin’. WOODSON cannot put a decent staff together with a one year extension. ain’t gonna happen. so either they wanna roll with WOODSON (for real real) or SUND has ‘his’ long term coach/plan…IMHO!!!

now if the BASG are really tellin’ SUND what to do with WOODSON then that’s another thing.

like i said, just my feelin’, nothin’ more.

By Sautee

May 30, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

new blog up

By Samuel

May 30, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Sautee,

I stand by my statement. Just because he bet on basketball doesn’t mean he caused one team to lose. I can probably go back to his games and tell you why one team won or lost other than his officiating. Did he shave a point or two at times, probably.

Doc, I beg to differ on the Heat. Dallas and specifically Dirk choked. Officials had nothing to do with that. Dirk gets just as many touch fouls as Wade and how many fouls could be called on any player guarding Shaq if it were called straight up like it should be.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not crazy about how the game is being called but I believe it has more to do with the league mandating this style than bad officiating. Even a bad official can recognize the obvious traveling, palming violations and no-calls on fouls. They do what they get paid to do.

All sports have sucum to this. Check it out the next time you watch a baseball game or a football game.