Hawks

By Collin

April 29, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

As much as I’d love to see the Celtics lose 2 of their starters, I almost just want to go up there and beat them WITHOUT any controversy. If we lose Marvin and they lose Perkins though, we will have the advantage in that situation as well because, as much as I love Marvin, Childress is a better player and should be starting in his place anyways.

By doc

April 29, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

kg needs to go and then we find out how much heart this team really has and whether paul pierce is a real all star who can put a team on his back and win a big game. my bet is he doesnt but let him decide it on the court for a change rather than in hand mudras and his mouth.

in the heat of the action is when someone is to stay cool and why it is so relevant to continue to impress that on these guys. if amare and diaw did what was so flagrant how can the league not choose the same for kg who reverted to very primal instincts which is why these guys all 7 foot of them need to be reminded of same before they hurt someone like an undersized ref. that is the reason for the rule so we dont have a rudy t event or a melee like in n.y. this is a no brainer folks and if stern trips on it so be it.

i think stern will do the easy thing this time though there was clearly no foul last year and was one this year in a ref being touched which btw is a huge offense in baseball. stern will ultimately weasle out of it because he has that capacity in him. if he does the beaners are goners anyway because if not the hawks someone will derail them because at that point deep down they will know they dont deserve it. and arent of championship material.

By ATLRattler

April 29, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

I was at the game & it was one of the best events I’ve ever attended. Maybe it was the Hawks play, Za being a bully, Horford not taking ish off anyone, Joe being money, or maybe the row of Celtic fans behind me that I was able to taunt the entire game. The Hawks worked hard for that win last night, & I’m proud of the way they have played & stood up for themselves. There is NO WAY anyone can say this is not a sports, or NBA city. Philips Arena was in full effect, & the Celtic fans scattered throughout the crowd had not affect on our home court. That was a PRO-Hawk’s crowd & we shut the Celtic fans the “F” up.

Get’em Hawks!!!!

By mavid

April 29, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

I haven’t had time to past much in a while, but guys… this is SWEEEEET!

If anyone should be suspended it should be KG and maybe Zaza.

Both Marvin and Perkins BARELY came out on the floor. They didnt “rush” out the way Amare and Diaw did. Marvin has basically half of his foot on the floor. I mean, that should NOT be a suspension. He didnt make any real movement to get on the floor. Not at all. The league has to give some leeway for a one step reaction that doesnt escalate.

Pushing a ref is another thing though.

By JerryWest

April 29, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Referee: I will never try to stop a fight, because I could easily get hurt by these big guys who may get away with being physical with me.

Player: As long as I can push/shove the ref as much as Garnett did, I won’t be suspended. How far can I go?

By mykhalc

April 29, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

posted this at end of previous blog…

Good News, it’s known that i’m not a WOODSON supporter but he definitely made the right call on that TO before the inbounds by CHILS. CHILS had already FAILED to get the ball in on a previous inbounds play. smart call IMHO.

JOE, i’m with ya on a couple of things. first, i want all teams at full-strength. i hope there are no suspensions even tho i have not watched the replay yet. but the DOC might be right. STERN, if he is goin’ to stay consistent, will issue suspensions. in defense of MARVIN and PERKINS, standin’ up to see what’s goin’ on, regardless of where their feet actually were, would NOT be a common-sense approach to issuin’ any suspensions!!! but i gotta feelin’ DOC might have called this correctly regardin’ STERN!!???!!

and JOE i do think WOODSON will get an extension just like i know SMOOVE will get paid!!! but i think WOODSON will be on a short leash next season!!! the ASG are the BASG but lunatics they ain’t!!! they see PHILLIPS can be filled!!! they see they have a home-town, home-grown upcomin’ NBA talent in SMOOVE and they KNOW they GOTTA pay him. if this franchise is truly tryin’ to become legit then there is no way they will not keep the nucleus together. and in my mind that nucleus is AH, JJ, JS, JC, MB, and ACIE. MARVIN could be the person that brings in the needed 5. but in fairness to MW, the cat is young and needs time, wherever he plays…IMHO!!!

By jerrywest

April 29, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Marvin and Perkins will be suspended undoubtedly. Patric Ewing, the superstar of NY, was suspended for smaller step then these two. They are out.

By Dan

April 29, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

They will never suspend Garnett. He could have decked the ref and it would not have made any difference.

Garnett should have been thrown out the game last night. This whole thing started because of him. Good for Zaza not to back down.

I hate the Celtics. I really, really do. Would love to put an end to their season.

By Astro Joe

April 29, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

If we don’t win another quarter (more or less a gmae), this series has done wonders for this franchise. I’m guessing some of the impacts include: At least 3 national TV appearances next season; an increase in season-ticket and luxury box sales; maybe even an investor calling Gearon and asking for a chance to buy-in; a probable increase in team payroll next season; a possible increase in corporate sponsorships… I can hear the “cha-ching” from Philips Arena.

Mike Tirico made a great point. The Friday crowd will include a higher percentage of non-fans. The trendy folk who want to be seen and want to see the crowd but not neccessarily share the same passion for the team as the Saturday and Monday crowds. I was shocked how many people were in the arena for the national anthem last night, Atlnata usually has late arriving crowds. Let’s hope that the “let’s meet at Ruth’s Chris before the game” folk don’t sit on their hands the entire game.

By Russell

April 29, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

We need to beat the Celtics WITH KG on the court. I dont’ give a $^@& about the violation. Let KG play let all the celtics play.

We’re still going to beat them

By Teresa

April 29, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Garnett should not be suspended, not because he is a disgrace to himself and his entire team. He deserves to play fair and lose elequently. That will be the only thing to put him back in good graces. He showed his true colors and now he is the only one that can change them back to an honaorable color. Good Luck changing your losing stripes that will abide with you forever.

By CT

April 29, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

I will re-type what I posted in an earlier forum, and a theory discussed and agreed with by a DC sports talk show guy this morning:

Nobody will be suspended. First, Garnett’s contact with Rush happens semi-regularly and never warrants a suspension. Unlikely to do so now in my opinion.

As to Williams and Perkins, neither will likely get suspended. Everyone who says “they stepped on the court — that’s a suspension” as if stepping on the court is what draws a suspension…it is not. Check transcripts from what Stern and Stu Jackson said last year re: the Diaw and Stoudemire incident and it is clear that the requirement is “leaving the vicinity of the bench area.” In the transcript, the interviewer asks “well, he only took a step or two, that’s not leaving the bench area is it?” Stern clarifies that Stoudemire walked 20-25 feet away from the bench, and that was why he was suspended. The interviewer later asks Stern to clarify what constitutes “the vicinity of the bench,” but Stern refuses, only saying that 20-25 feet is not. Since Wiliams and Perkins took only 1-2 steps on the court, they likely did not leave the “vicinity of the bench area.” By having a somewhat amorphous concept of the “vicinity of the bench area,” the league has built in the wiggle room that people were clamoring for last year. It’s my opinion that that’s how it’ll shake down.

By Wink from Lithonia

April 29, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

What I say, losing Marvin is a great start to our game 5 chances.

Losing Garnett, will hurt us a little bit, because he is our motivation and he can’t shoot from outside with his back to the basket. His shooting has kept us in two games. He’s so competitive to a fault!!!

By bigeasy830

April 29, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

I will take it any way I can get it. If they suspend KG, Hurray, but the danger in that is that it may rally the rest of the Celtics. I agree with most of you, let them all play and hit them head-up. But, also, I just want the win any way I can get it. it feels so good to be talking about relative issues in Hawks basketball again. Last week I would have thought that after last night which was game 4 we would have been screaming for the heads of BK and Woody and how we have no draft picks for the next draft now, Who cares about the draft or next year. As the guy on the Armoramor says, “Now is the Future”.

By Ryder

April 29, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Great analysis Astro Joe. The world has now gazed upon Josh Smith and you know how much the NBA loves entertaining players. He, JJ, and Al Horford arrived on the map these past few days, regardless of what happens.

Face it, Marvin and Perkins will be suspended for Game 5. Garnett will be fined, but that’s it.

If those suspensions go down Boston’s in trouble. Woodson can put Mario West in for defense to make life miserable for Ray Allen. Marvin hasn’t done much offensively and they can compensate by having Salim play for a few minutes. Perkins is their garbage man and now they have to rely on Leon “OUCH! MY ANKLE” Powe and Glen “one too many doughnuts” Davis for interior presence.

Oops. Now Atlanta has confidence going into Boston. Let’s hope they bring their intelligence with them too. Play the same smart game they did last night and they’ll be fine.

By RealSquawk

April 29, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Mike Woodson appears to be coaching his @#$ off He played Solo for crying out loud!! ran some plays and simplified the defense so they can go out and be athletes! I have not been a supported of his for awhile, but he is winning me into at least a neutral position

Rebounding like crazy… Woodson said this team needed to rebound and i think we do match with Celtics in one aspect they have no big body tall guy yeah Kendrick Perkins and Glen Davis are pretty good, but don’t have the reach of our forwards or centers allowing us to grab some crucial rebounds

ontotopic

Should Garnett be fired? well if a picture is worth however many words then yeah, but i don’t want him to be suspended. If anything Sam Cassel should be reprimanded or suspended for reentering the situation and stirring it up.

By Darrin "The Vent King"

April 29, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

I hate to say this, but losing Marvin Williams won’t be all that bad. Dude plays like he has an avacado stuck in his rear anyway. Plus it’ll give starter minutes to a guy who should have them anyway- Josh Childress!

GO HAWKS!!!

By Phil

April 29, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

I definitely don’t think Za Za should be suspended. His response was absolutely perfect in my book - he made it clear that he wasn’t going to be intimidated without escalating the incident into a full scale brawl. Za Za should be awarded a contract for next season (if he doesn’t already have one).

By mykhalc

April 29, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

CT, good post and good points!!! we’ll see out it plays out soon!!!

By Jo Bling

April 29, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

I haven’t posted in a while, either. Been way too busy. But last night, wow. All I can say is that one ranks way up there with one of my proudest moments of more than 35 years as a Hawks supporter. This team stood up to the mighty Celtics and refused to be bullied. In fact, you could say the Hawks are now the intimidators.

As one of Josh Smith’s biggest critics over the course of the season, I am now here to pat the man on the back for a job well done. He has been the central energy source of the team for the last two games. Most importantly, he’s stepped up his game to a level that I think we all knew he was capable of, but never showed before. Yes, he’s still throwing away passes on fast breaks and air-mailing threes, but those few instances haven’t really hurt us. He’s more than made up for it with mostly awesome play on defense, clutch baskets on offense, and even knocking down critical free throws.

Whatever else happens in this series, I think that one day we’ll be able to look back at these two games as perhaps a turning point for this long-suffering franchise. This team has really grown up in the last week, and winning two games like these last two can carry a team a long way. Let’s get a big man in the offseason and start a new dynasty!

By Caleb

April 29, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Has anyone noticed that Perkins actually walked onto the court (both feet inbounds) while Williams just had half of one foot over the line?

By Traceman

April 29, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

I hope no one gets suspended but if anyone does, it should be the guy who started the whole thing - KG. It will be interesting to see what the league does with regard to Marvin and Perkins. Neither guy came anywhere near the action and neither guy did anything to escalate the situation.

Those of you who say we won’t miss Marvin are nuts! There is no question that Chillz presents a better matchup in this series and that is why he IS playing starter’s minutes, he’s just not starting. Still, if JJ or Smoove gets in foul trouble and we don’t have Marvin, we will be in trouble. Our bench is already paper thin and losing ANY of our top 7 players is going to be a HUGE problem.

By Lil E

April 29, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Man, unlike a lot of my fellow Hawks fans, I hope KG and Perkins get suspended. If there is something that can improve my team’s chances of winning within the rules of the game, I am all for it. Forget what excuses the media or Boston fans might come up with. The beauty of the NBA playoffs is one game can’t win or lose a series for you. You’ve got to get 4, and even if we get one on them w/o KG and Perkins, the other 3 (if we win the series) have to count for something.

One thing I will say is..I don’t think Stern gives a damn about bad publicity. I trust Stern will do the right thing and suspend KG. Without KG and Perkins, there will be no stopping J. Smith and Horford.

By Zach

April 29, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

The one thing I’ll point out about losing Marvin is that, while he hasn’t been stellar this series, we have a very very very VERY thin bench. It will be even thinner in a huge and emotional game in Boston, and that could hurt down the stretch.

By doc

April 29, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

funny how kg was tough enough to push the ref out of the way but didnt touch zaza when zaza was right in his face, toe to toe, mano a mano. kg how does losing respect feel?

By BA

April 29, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Who believed this could happen? I didn’t, and I’m one of the more positive Hawks pundits, having been accused of drinking the Hawks kool-aid. Time to suck it up and admit it. Despite the Paul blunder Knight has built an athletic winning club. Post Bibby trade, this is a fifty win club. The last two games proved it. Also, any talk of “rebuilding” just got thrown out the window. The “fire Billy and Woody” rhetoric is history. Woodson deserves credit; after the first two blowouts, he had these youngsters believing they could still beat Boston. Sometimes his playcalling and lack of subs can be maddening, but clearly he got this group of twenty year olds to LISTEN, which would be hard to do in any setting, much less a professional bball team at the highest level.

By voice of reason

April 29, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

KEVIN GARNETT SHOULD BE SUSPENDED FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE SERIES, ON GROUNDS THAT HE HAS NO BALLS.

THE GUY LET ZAZA PACULIA PUNK HIM.

By RA

April 29, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

I’ve got a plan, go on and suspend Marvin and Perkins (the loss of Marvin is going to ouch more than you think because he’s kept Paul Pierce in foul trouble) and then lock Kevin Garnett in a room with Sigourney Weaver and let her deal with him the same way she would with any other alien…

By Remembering Roundfield

April 29, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

I don’t think any suspensions will be handed down, but that’s okay. I am extremely proud of the way our Hawks have come back in this series, and even if we don’t win it things have changed in the the way this team is perceived nationally! Believe me, it will not be a problem attracting free agents now. The thing is, if Solo can do what he did last night for 20 to 30 min. per game we won’t need to spend millions on a free agent “5”. At least we can afford to give Marvin one more year to develope into a player that won’t make us cringe when CP wins another award. GO HAWKS!!!!

By SalimFan

April 29, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Mavin quickly gets us into the bonus with his clumbsy style of play. He also converts his FT’s at a high percentage. Actually his pist defense is better than his peremeter defense.

He’s a Liability that’s beficial to us.

By lbj_fan

April 29, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Garnett needs to be suspended. He instigated the fight with Zaza by throwing an elbow, and then shoved a referee. If Garnett is gone for Game 5, then Hawks have a shot. The rowdy Celtic fans will be in Boston’s favor, so hopefully Garnett will not be playing

By mykhalc

April 29, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

SalimFan, classic man. LOL He’s a Liability that’s beneficial to us

By Sekou K. Smith

April 29, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

For the record, I don’t want to see any of these guys suspended. Any or all of them could be. But I’d perfer these teams go at it full strength and let the winner get the series fair and square.

By Horford Rox

April 29, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

SEKOU

I say SUSPEND NONE! This is the NBA playoffs. Things get heated. No punches were thrown, no necks were choked. Pass down some SERIOUS fines, under the conditions that further altercations WILL result in Lengthy Suspenions, possibly through the beginning of next season.

Hawx have proven they CAN beat boostown. LETS GO HAWX!!

By Volman

April 29, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Everyone,

Garnett DEFINITELY went after Zaza with that elbow…it was deliberate.. He meant to hit Zaza, but didn’t totally connect.. i think he then realized what he did, and said “Oh Sh1t!!” and backed away when Zaza got in his face.

You can see on the video replay that GARNETT DID PUSH THE REFEREE. He said something along the lines of “Get the F%CK off of me!” to the referee as he pushed him away…take another look if you don’t remember.

He knew what he was doing…

NOW STERN, DO THE RIGHT THING, EVEN IF YOUR LITTLE KG COMMERCIALS WILL HAVE TO STOP!

Go HAwks

By Horford Rox

April 29, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Part of the rules that I don’t understand is that a guy who wasn’t even TOSSED from one game can be SUSPENDED for the next!

That ain’t right.

GO HAWX!

By Nookah

April 29, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

For all you fans clamouring for Marvin to be traded etc. take a minute and reflect. The guy would now only be a senior out of college (or at worst 1 year removed from). If you look at his career he has improved every year. GIve him a little more time and he’ll be fine. I read some of the posts last night and instead of us celebrating the victory, which was very admirable in my view, and furthermore has done a ton for this franchise, we start ripping into people. As I said last night, my only regret is Woody will get an extension.

With the Hawks victory last night, we have changed the way Boston is viewed from now on. Our tenacity and never-say-die attitude has not only gained us the long-lost respect nationally and revealed the chink in Boston’s armour, but it may have made a few potential free agents look up and say…..”hmmmm! Young team with a beast in the middle and freak of nature on the wing, an all-star poing guard and all-star extraordinaire in JJ, perhaps I could contribute to this team and help them over the hump!!!!”

We are one legit centre and a spot-up-shooter away from being very dangerous. We could also do with some much needed uumphhh on the bench.

Now let’s go to Beantown and shock the world!!

Go HAwks!!

Nuff Respect!!!!

By phar71

April 29, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

I have been out of town for both of the playoff games this year (work, and birth of friends son), but I will be at the game on Friday, coming straight in from the airport and I will be straight RAWDYY!!!!!!!

By honest_abe

April 29, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

doc: noticed the exact same thing. when zaza got up in his face, kg did absolutely nothing. in fact he took a step back until they got separated and then he got heated. heh.

what a game. the entire game i was waiting for the hawks to stumble over themselves. they proved me right in the 3rd quarter but jj truly had a special 4th quarter last night.

as for the suspensions the league has to go by its rules. considering they suspended amare in that crucial series last year, they will most likely suspend both perkins and marvin williams. good riddance.

looks like the pick and roll with jj and bibby is a winner. HA!

By The Flash

April 29, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Did you see how the Celtics were struggling on the around the basket play that preceded the incident? Priceless. Got several rebounds and no where to go with the ball. None. Zman had KG bottled, and KG retaliated in frustration!

The inside play on that possession, you could see that the Hawks were fresher, were quicker, were more determined. What came afterwards. It was cool that Z did not step back, but rather forward.

All I can say is does somebody have some mustard. I got a shoe to eat, assuming I can extricate my foot.

By jeff

April 29, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

if they don’t suspend kg for elbowing the ref then their discipline is a farce. why should marvin williams get suspended just because his big foot is on the court. he just stood up to look at what was going on. perkins actually stepped onto the court and was stopped by one of the coaches. he should definitely get suspended.

By phar71

April 29, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSrCL7dTqYQ&NR=1

By noneya

April 29, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

KG, won’t get suspended. He was trying to break away from Eddie Rush who was restraining him. Possible fine though. Perkins and Williams look good for the taking. (Suspension)

By Hawkeater

April 29, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Where were you faithful and knowledgeable basketball fans all year? The Hawks, wings flailing, will be crashing back to earth shortly. Not like birds of prey, but rather broken little sparrows that stuck their beaks where they didn’t belong. Celtics in 6. Not close.

By STRETCH

April 29, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Well, im for a suspension. I know there going back to Boston, and its a whole new beast when you are playing a team and battling the home crowd.

I’ll take my chances KG and MWilliams suspended. Yep, i like those odds!

And it sure is taking them a long time to review those tapes from that scuffle!

By Maxx

April 29, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

If the celtics lose Garnett and Perkins and we lose Marvin, that will definitely be huge for the Hawks. That would give us an opportunity to steal a game from Boston in Boston and then come back home to clinch the greatest basketball playoff upset ever

By JayD

April 29, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Marvin hit a couple of huge jumpers and some free throws in the 3rd quarter to keep us in it - Everybody played an important role. It would be a shame if he were suspended!

By Harry Hawk

April 29, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Hawkeater,

We’ve been here all along. If you’ve got a problem with that, just remember that I’m a big-a* red hawk and I’m not hard to find. I will truck you like you was Bill Bates, son.

By Eric

April 29, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

KG STARTED the WHOLE THING by shoving Pachula….How could he not be suspended?

By doc

April 29, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

hey honest, kg isnt so intimidating to the rest of the league either now. he backed away and off of our russian georgia flopper to get mad and push around elderly refs 1/3 his size. how bad can it get for the C’s?

By Not A Bandwaggon Jumper

April 29, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

The ref’s really should look at how Cassell always pushes of as he dribbles and someone is guarding him, the rules state that if you extend your arm to get separation its an offensive foul.. He also should be fined for trying to coax JJ into a physical confrontation so JJ would possible get tossed or suspended for the next game, I have lost alot of respect for Cassell & Garnett, as KG is doing all the barking and cussed out Zsa Zsa that took the whole situation even higher.

By Tiger Woo

April 29, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

I don’t think KG will be suspended. If pushing or bumping the ref was as issue, KJ would have been ejected from the game when the incident occurred and most likely suspended for game 5.

By MannyT

April 29, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Marvin’s excuse to avoid suspension.

I was rushing to stay out of the way, and I stumbled. A review of tapes throughout the series will prove his case.

BWAF

By infamouskrs

April 29, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

really is wild to see that “sugarRAY ZZ” has developed a mean streak. wasn’t it not too long ago that he was sparing with SOLO in practice (think about it) !

and i for one, agree with a couple of guys on here that suggested “they’d take it however we got it” stand. another playoff round= MORE NATIONAL TV EXPOSURE! and more games that are viewable for a “die-hard” fan like myself living in INDY without a satellite feed. so sick of seeing the SAME 3 or 4 teams battle it out every freakin’ weekend(ABC) and weeknight(TNT)!

PASS OUT THE PUNISHMENTS FAIRLY AND WITHIN THE LINES OF THE SET RULE! KG is suppose to be a team leader…and he decides, during playoff time, to throw not 1..but 2 elbows during a game (1 hittin’ a REF)? are you kidding me! no doubt in my mind he gets suspended. oh well..looks like PIERCE is rubbing off on him already (thugs)!

By mykhalc

April 29, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

does HERB usually follow his brother?? just askin’…

By MsDee

April 29, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Honestly, I hope KG doesnt get suspended cause that would only give him enough rest to come back to Atl to hit every shot he attempts cause he would be fully rested. I say let the Hawks continue to run his butt until he falls over!!

By SalimFan

April 29, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

What Does everybody think about woody’s Fate now?

Honestly I still want the guy gone. Wht about Salim and J-Rich? Justice!!!

By mykhalc

April 29, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

punk ‘em up again on wed ZAZA!!!

By cp

April 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Honestly I just want this team to win period. I don’t care if KG and Perkins are suspended. The Boston fans, players, and sports writers are so cocky that I want them brought back down to earth. The guy on First Take said we did not deserve any respect. I want us to go into Boston and give them the buisness and come back home and wrap it up.

By mykhalc

April 29, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

SalimFan, like i said in an earlier post i think WOODSON gets his extension only to be on a short leash to start the season. as much as i DO NOT like WOODSON as a coach, SOMEHOW, SOMEONE has gotten this team to rally and step up!!! sooooo gotta give WOODSON some props in that regard!!! but short leash, no doubt!!!

i think your man SALIM is history. but i think he’ll land some place and contribute. JRICH will get a 2yr contract/look this off season unless they think they can grab someone with similiar shootin’ skills and more experience.

the bar has been raised on this team with its’ showin’ this series!!! so the SASG GOTTA step up too!!! next season we ALL will EXPECT more and better!!! the off-season suspense is ALMOST as good as this series!!!

By stanley sisson

April 29, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

I cant beleive we are tied 2-2 but for us to win the series. joe has to keep playing the same way jsmooth keeps blocking shots.and bibby keeps hitting 3’s.

By MannyT

April 29, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

mykhalc I think the team has won over folks for Woody. I could be where you are on this point, but I’m willing to wait until the season ends to judge.

I do put these points out from prior blog.

It took 6 months for Woody to come back to what almost every major NBA analyst, writer, or blogger concluded long ago. The only chance we have to win is playing to our strengths.

Winning without great stats.

Quick analysis of 2 similar playoff coaches

Make your choice.

BWAF

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 29, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

I agree with Collin. I’d rather see both teams at full strength playing, regardless of whether the Hawks win or lose. You know the b-tch azz Celtics fans will be whining for all eternity if the Hawks win at Boston with no KG. I realize it sets a questionable precedent but ideally I’d rather see nobody get suspended.

At the very least after last year’s Amare suspension debacle I don’t see KG getting suspended.

But if it’s just Marvin and Perkins getting suspended, I think that benefits the Hawks. Perkins is more valuable to them than Marvin is to us.

By jason

April 29, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

I live in Texas now, and the past two games are the first I have seen the hawks play in about four years or more. I don ‘t follow the NBA much, casual fan you can say. What I saw the past two games was a veteran team playing a young team. The kids got punched in the mouth and punched back. You saw a veteran team turn childish because a sweep that a give was taken away by kids. I watched kevin Garnet for two games thowing elbows whether rebounding, setting picks, or playing defense.What happened to the mumtumbo rule ? I see why KG can’t win championships. Hey boston, you have to earns a championship; they are not just handed out.

By Ken Strickland

April 29, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

This is an example of what I commented on in an another post. The league is going to try and show tuffness by suspending the least deserving just to protect the privileged and promote PR. They won’t suspend Zaza because they can’t justify it without suspending KG. It would be rediculous if they suspend Perkins and Marvin and not KG and Zaza. It would be like me gettng angry and shooting someone and being deemed not responsible because they held the person that was shot responsible for getting in the way of the bullet. This has become a class conscience league and this is an example of how they treat the haves and the have nots. That includes both players and franchises.

By JohnD

April 29, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

Garnett plays a different game when Josh Smith is not in the game. He goes inside and dominates but Josh has sent enough of his shots back that with JS in the game KG plays mostly away from the basket.

Even if Boston wins the series their weaknesses have been exposed and there will be no championship. I thought before the playoffs that either Detroit or Boston would win but not now. The rings go West.

We need Marvin simply because he is a threat to score from the medium range and depth is a problem for the Hawks.

Prior to the start of the game Kendrick Perkins insinuated Boston lost the 3rd game because they were cheated on the clock. The only controversy was ONE 24 second violation so make of that what you wish. Perkins, Pierce and Cassell are LOSERS!

The earlier comment on Cassell attempting to bait JJ was right on - we lose a great player and Boston loses nothing if both are tossed.

One of may favorites, Doc Rivers, was crying on every call or non-call in the first half. An attempt to cover for his slow, aging team I guess.

Make KG, Allen and Pierce run, run, run and run some more. Allen failed to score in the 2nd half of game 3 and none of them were a factor in the 4th quarter of game 4 when the Hawks outscored Boston 19-4 at the start.

The Hawks took TWO knockout runs from Boston in game 4 and still dominated at the end so we can hope youth will be served as this series moves to at least the 6th game.

The possibility of the #1 and #2 seeds being dumped in the first round is real in the East and that would be great for the game, maybe not TV but for the game!

I am also glad to see many of the “trade Josh Smith” fans coming to his side. I posted in the first week of the year that he was greatly improved but many still wanted him out of Atlanta. The talent has barely been tapped - if he will continue to work hard the upside is huge.

By mykhalc

April 29, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

MannyT, yep read your posts and i hear ya. personally, i’m still for bringin’ in a better coach next season!!! ‘cause really if JJ would not have been unstoppable in the 4th qtr, what then??? some can say WOODSON has really not had the players and others can say he is what he is. i tend to fall into the 2nd category!!! but i do wanna acknowledge that somehow this team has rallied and i’m sure WOODSON deserves some of the credit!!!

like i said, we all will expect better next season. so to me that means UPGRADE however we can and wherever we can, includin’ HC!!!

By mykhalc

April 29, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

just posted…NO FINES NOR SUSPENSIONS FOR GAME 5!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 29, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

No suspensions doesn’t surprise me. No fines absolutely does. The gang sign from Pierce cost him 25 G’s, you’d think shoving a referee would hit KG in his bulging wallet too. Regardless this is fine with me, I’d rather see the Hawks win fair and square.

By JohnD

April 29, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

Boston will try to slow down game 5 and keep the score low. Back to half-court, playoff basketball to keep Pierce and Allen in the game and not force KG to run after Josh and the other Hawks.

There will be quick doubles on JJ and Mike Bibby will have to play the entire game offensively as he did the 1st half of game 4.

If the Hawks can keep the pace fast then Boston can’t play Cassell and PJ Brown which forces Davis and Powe on the floor where they have been embarrassed so far. A fast pace also diminishes the effect of Perkins.

The Hawks will likely have to counter with defensive pressure in the back court to speed up Rondo and force him to make quicker decisions and lure Boston back into an up-tempo game.

Again, I do not care for Marvin’s game relative to his position in the draft but we have him and he is a threat that Boston must recognize. I hope he is not suspended.

Another benefit of a fast pace is the effect on James Posey. If he has to play more minutes early in the game his late game ability will suffer.

Compare the rosters and you would not expect the Hawks to have a chance, but compare the players and the style of the games so far and the Hawks have a very real chance to follow Denver and Golden State into the second round over a #1 seed.

By MannyT

April 29, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

SportsCenter sez no fines or suspensions.

The Suns must be steaming. Title shot stolen via arbitrary application of rules.

BWAF

By JohnD

April 29, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

No suspensions - no surprise.

Boston would have been harmed by any equitable decision and the Celtics are still, with the Lakers, Knicks, Suns and Cleveland, one of the chosen big market or big draw teams.

By infamouskrs

April 29, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

real funny thing hearin’ about no suspensions….it’s all about the TV DOLLAR !

nice to know that the “MANAGER/OWNER” meetings have a new topic to discuss in their “OFFSEASONSOFLUXURY” discussions. HAWKS TEAM OFFICIALLY UP FOR PUBLIC AUCTION ! as a fan…i can only dream!

KG PLAYIN’ AFTER ELBOWING A REF…is a priceless league decision!!!!!!! teams,fans, and basketball realists in general…all take a bow of disgust!

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 29, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Well, this is the same Stu Jackson, Executive Vice-President of Basketball Operations, who elected not to suspend Reggie Evans for grabbing Chris Kaman’s nuts and pulling them from behind. It’s not like the NBA has ever been very logical when punishing their players.

By David Stern

April 29, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

I’m the Gambino family’s b!tch

By infamouskrs

April 29, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

B-S considering it wasn’t even another player he shoved….it was a REF ! and STERN was in the crowd…..can anyone say “ALZHEIMERS” ! gettin’ real sick and tired of the “PASS” that is given to pro(overpaid) athletes!!!!!

By KG

April 29, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

I’m KG, I can grab a ref, elbow him, and still play because I’m KG. I play for the Celtics, I can do what I want to whoever I want to. Ain’t no NBA commish gonna kick me out cause I bring in the money. Put David Stern on the court and I’ll kick his @$$ too.

By infamouskrs

April 29, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

hey commish…lookin’ for a real sure shot…PUT ZAZA AND “KGardensalad”…in tha ring for WRESTLEMANIA-whatever!

By Nate ArchiBALL

April 29, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

For the first time since the Dominique era, I’m really proud of my Atlanta Hawks. —— Nate ArchiBALL

OK, I did steal this from Michelle Obama. I can only hope that some right wing talk show host or blogger will not start broadcasting that Nate has never been PROUD of the HAWKS (The word really is an adverb. Adverbs usually answer such questions as “How?” “Where?” “When?” or in this case “To what degree?”)

I have always been proud of the Hawks - even in the lean years. So I have to state that it feels real good seeing the Hawks defeat the Celtics. Philips Arena was rocking last night. I was at the Celtic / Hawks playoff game when after a time out — Mike “I can’t draw up an inbounds play to same my life” Fratello designed a play that ended up with Cliff Levingston throwing up a hook shot at the buzzer that missed everything. We still owe the Celtics for that one………

LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!

By Astro Joe

April 29, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

No Suspensions = Follow the Money.

Let’s hope Hawks don’t interpret this as permission to turn this into an old-fashioned cow-bell match. Because the 1st Hawk that so much as sneezes on the court will be tossed faster than shedded lettuce and cucumbers. Doc (Rivers, not our blog physician) is taking a beating in the Boston media. I expect that he will utilize his bench more tomorrow and give the old guys a rest so that they won’t be fatigued late in the game.

I’m ready for Game 5!

By Freshmaker

April 29, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Here’s a cool Bill Simmons chat, and he talks a lot about the series. I love Simmons. He’s really distraught over the Celtics losing 2.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=20425

Go Hawks!

By SalimFan

April 29, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Good News, No punishments for anyone.

By the ghost of CP3

April 29, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

i think perkins and williams both sit wednesday. according to stern the rule about players leaving the bench is not open to interpretation; so it’s pretty clear what will happen here. in addition i really hope kg plays. this guy has got it in him to show up for big games. as crazy as it sounds i think his psyche chinked by zaza. he looked scared. pierce is obviously injured. he can’t take anyone off the dribble and looks generally bad. and hey if doc rivers wants to 1) continue to let cassell take silly jumpshots 2) defend JJ one on one with ray allen (why doesn’t he use posey?) 3) play eddie house waaaaay too much, then so be it.

great job! 3 years of agony…poof! what team will show up wed? please be the good hawks!

By infamouskrs

April 29, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

B-SH** on the NON-PENALTIES TONIGHT!

there is no reason in the world why KG shouldn’t be gettin’ SALIM TIME for the next game! HORRIBLE LEAGUE DEGREGATION AND FAVORING OF ALL-STARS!

the NBA needs it’s own MITCHELL REPORT…with allegations proving steroids are pumped into teams in ways of gaining some certain advantage nationally!

By Astro Joe

April 29, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ian_thomsen/04/29/cska/index.html

Check out the link above. Specifically the section on David Andersen, who may be that perimeter-oriented center to pair with Horford. And we own his NBA rights.

By Steve T

April 29, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Has anyone seen Clyde? How do you like Billy now?

By SalimFan

April 29, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Haha infamouskrs, I agree Damn that KG. He’s still soft. The Hawks let him get away with that intimidation crap in games 1&2 but we were playoff-struck. Thats passed and KG’s wuss-boy posturing donsn’t fly in tha “A”. For someone whose only been out of the First round of the playoffs once in his 12 year career he really has no credability to be talikn’.

We deserve to send his soft A S S out Fishin’ just like Detroit and Dallas got bounced last year for being WEAK.

Sam Cassel sould think twice before swinging at our star player. That’s what cost them the game. Cassel Woke the REAL sleeping GIANT.

By mykhalc

April 29, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

JOE, good read. thanks for the link.

By new jersey faithful

April 29, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

If I was a Phoenix fan, I would be sooooooo p!ssed off right now! They made such a big deal last year(i think) about enforcing the rule about stepping onto the court during an altercation, and now they just blow it off?? WTF?? This is why the NBA is a joke!!!!!!!!! GO HAWKS!!

By ray

April 29, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

In regards to the suspensions ( or lack thereof), I agree with Astro Joe- “follow the money.”

I think that Garnett knew that Zaza had nothing to lose. Dude has been ostracized by his own coach, doesn’t get the same playing time he used to, doesn’t get along well with his teammates, etc. When Zaza got closer than a drunken prom date, KG knew it was on and might not go in his favor. I still say Jhan had it right: Zaza’s really one of the Klitschko brothers. Dude might flop a lot, but he was never more sure-footed than he was then.

Truth is, I think we’ll see a different player in Zaza with a better coach. The guy does have skills, and skills that fit.

I still do not believe Woodson is the guy to take this team to the next level. Too many things, too much evidence…all points to a different conclusion.

As always, winning (no matter if it’s one playoff game, two, or an entire series) “cures” and more importantly MASKS all ills. In the end, I still think a few things ring true:

1)Woodson is still not the coach of the future. These two playoff games are evidence of players rising to the occasion, not inspiration from a coach who could not provide it all year…for 4 years. This stuff doesn’t happen overnight. Not to mention sudden differences in gameplans and substitution patterns. Woodson is a creature of habit. He didn’t want to run, and couldn’t develop a solid half-court game. How is it that suddenly he’s a good coach in two games that clearly show he was riding the wave?

2)Coaches don’t change overnight. There’s a reason that Byron Scott is Coach of the Year, and not Doc Rivers. You know what it is? Scott is working with mostly younger players (and some vets), has developed solid game plans and plays, and has a good bench/substitution system. And, he adjusts accordingly. Rivers is once again on the hot seat for the same reasons he was last year: he is possibly as bad or inept at adjustments and game-time decisions as Mike Woodson. How else do you explain the Celtics winning 66 regular season games exactly ONE season after only winning 24? The explanation is the addition of four of the league’s most notorious veterans (Garnett, Allen, Cassell, and PJ Brown).

It is the veteran players who made all the difference. Now the Celtics find themselves in an actual battle. They should have made the necessary adjustments to beat us after losing game 3. But they were unable to, even after racing to an early 1st quarter lead. That’s on the coach. Always will be, especially when the coach has ALL of the necessary tools to get the job done (and who can deny that Rivers has all those tools?). This further sheds doubt on whether or not this team can actually go all the way with the Big Three…if they cannot stomp the team with the worst record in the playoffs.

3)Billy Knight may or may not get his praises sung, but the fact remains that our Hawks are playing their hearts out. The Celtics have a bench, and if properly used, they can wear us down. We don’t have a bench, or more specifically…we have a very limited one that doesn’t get utilized. Like it or not, we cannot lose sight of the fact that our athleticism isn’t enough to give ALL teams problems. Otherwise, explain why Philly and Charlotte routinely step on us? Our roster is not complete. We still only won 37 games and barely made the playoffs, not entirely of our own volition. When this team is able to win around 50 games or so consistently is when you can say the roster is set. But then, last time I looked, even teams winning that number of games are looking to tweak and tune in ways that will get them over the next hump. Sorry, but even the euphoria of winning is not enough to convince me that we have all we need. I’m not trumpeting the need to make trades and/or moves of other kinds.

4)In the words of Astro Joe, follow the money. You can’t ignore the money. Our team needs tweaks. We need an effective big to take the pressure off of Josh and Al. We need another shooter. Can we afford both Joshes and Bibby? We need another shooter (that will get to play). When the high wears off, reality hits. Can’t keep forgetting that.

But until then….enjoy the hell out of the high. And remember, the playoffs is a proving ground. Who can defend, who can shine, who can score, who’s clutch? Who’s worth the money, and who’s now worth more as an asset?

Here’s to our team…may we sack ‘em in Boston as well!

By Steve T

April 29, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry folks, the Hawks will get one of the best FA center out there. Everyone can see what BK was building in Atlanta and now the hawks are an easy sell to any good FA. Who will be some of the FA centers out there this year?

By ray

April 29, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Look, for anybody busting on Clyde:

Had you been paying attention, Clyde said that he would drop his usual tag line when the Hawks made the playoffs. He did, and even congratulated his team. On top of that, he has continued to post and offer thoughtful, insightful comments (some of which I have found to be not only on-target, but profound). So give the man a damn break. And pay attention if you’re going to go off on somebody. We are trying to enjoy this together, aren’t we?

Not only that, but two playoff games is not ever enough to judge a coach and gm on. If you think it is, then you’re a raving lunatic that is not giving nearly enough credit to the players, and one who is ignoring the first two playoff games…not to mention the 82 game season prior to that.

By Not a regular poster, but..

April 29, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

Anybody see this article on SI.com? It’s about a center from Australia who plays in Europe… but his draft rights belong to the Hawks. Apparently, he’s a solid player.

(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ian_thomsen/04/29/cska/index.html)

What’s the story on this guy? Is he someone we would want to sign down the road?

Hope the fellas can pull one off up in Beantown!!!

By HB Ando

April 29, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

Wow, there are so many images from last night, that it’s actually overwhelming to prioritize, and post, them. Since people are well-conditioned to posts being incomprehensibly long, the following should come as no surprise. In an effort to reduce the likelihood of tangents, I’m actually going to try and bullet point things thought, seen, and discussed, while watching the game from Jhan’s implausibly perfect seats, mere rows behind the Celtics bench (where there were quite a few bewildered Celtics’ fans, whose faces alternating between disbelief and incomprehension):

-This was one of the two best, professional sporting events I’ve ever attended, in person. The other was the World Series game between the Braves and the Indians, in which Glavine dominated and Justice’s home run accounted for the only score of the game, as we won our only World Championship.

-ALL CREDIT should go to the Hawks’ players (with major props to the most vocal and supportive crowd I’ve ever seen at Philips Arena). Without going on an extended rant, Woody’s role in this victory was limited to racing onto the court during the little altercation, to try and maintain order (which, and I’d like to know the deepest truth about the long-term resentment that Zaza carries, seemed to almost end in Zaza plastering Woody; which would have been pretty cool). I believe it was MannyT (I’ll get to the half-time reunion later) who suggested that the best thing for the Hawks, during half-time, would be if someone stopped Woody from saying ANYTHING to the team, as he would only mess things up. In essence, this game looked like a pick-up game, with our five guys simply showing more heart, hustle and athleticism. Had Woody attempted to “coach” them, I sincerely doubt they would have had a chance.

My biggest fear, played out during the third quarter, is that the pace of the game would evolve into half-court mode, where, once again, it became painfully clear that the Hawks HAVE NO half-court offense, which can only be attributed to Woody. Down ten points, at the end of the third, I told Jhan that the only chance the Hawks had was to resume what can only be described as a “chaotic” running game.

-Doc Rivers should take some heat for this loss. The Celtics knew they came into Game 3 with no respect for the Hawks. But there was plenty of talk prior to Game 4 that it was time for the Celtics to get serious. So no excuses for this one. Perkins had 7 boards in the first quarter, but Doc failed to leverage that advantage for the rest of the game, and he only added 2 more in the last 3 quarters. Rivers, incomprehensibly (man, that word could be used to describe so many situations last night that it’s incomprehensible), refused to run a double-team at Johnson, during the fourth quarter. Rivers used House and Cassell when Rondo’s defense was clearly a challenge for the Hawks to contend with.

Most funny was that Doc (remember, we were sitting right behind him) gave one of the best “Woody” impersonations I’ve seen all year, spending most of the game with his arms crossed, yelling at the referees, while doing very little in the way of discernable coaching.

-With every passing game, it becomes increasingly clear that Josh Smith is simply a unique athlete, who’s physical abilities are unlike any other player in the league. He may continue to take the occasional, ill-advised shot, but he does things on the court that no other human being can do. Consequently, I believe, his price tag is growing, as well. I believe it’s quite possible that the Hawks will be forced to match a term-sheet as high as 5 years/$75 million, if not slightly higher.

-Did I mention that last night’s game was the best NBA game I’ve ever seen in person?! WOW!

-Alternatively, Marvin Williams continues to evolve into the invisible man. I hear all you folks asking for patience, but I simply don’t get what it is you want us to wait for. The things he fails to do, on the court, are matters of effort and intensity. He does not rebound consistently. He does not defend with commitment. He does not show signs of above-average handle, court vision, or the ability to create opportunities for his teammates.

This point IS NOT about giving up on Marvin Williams. It is about understanding the financial implications of next season’s payroll, should both Josh’s be re-signed. The ASG is not going to spend $68 million next season. As a result, very tough decisions will have to be made this summer (most importantly, acknowledging that we need an upgrade at the head coaching position).

Finally, let me just reiterate what other blog members, who met each other, face-to-face last night, have said: it was truly a cool moment to meet MannyT, Volman and Astro Joe. I know that Joe and I have traded the sharpest of barbs, over the past years. I know that we don’t see eye to eye on many issues. But meeting him, and getting to talk about the Hawks, in person, truly underscores that the characters we create here, and the often over-the-top exchanges we trade, do not define who each of us is, inside, as real people. It proves that we have to keep this forum in perspective.

Truly a pleasure, already befriending Jhan and Doc (and Ray via phone, e-mail and the infamous blog), to have the opportunity to meet 3 other long-term members, and share in the most satisfying Hawks win in the last decade!

By drmaryb

April 29, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

Hey ray-star

I haven’t read any posts about CLYDE, just been so busy payin’ bills and workin’ with my football team, BUT:

Let clyde take his lumps…(like a man) he deserves to…because he brought that on himself!

(don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time!)

The same fervor he brought to FIRE everybody is the same Fervor he should take the heat… If you can’t take the HEAT? Then don’t dish it out…Fair is Fair…

I’m Just Sayin’ - Every man deserves the right to feed his wife and kids! Clyde had no mercy on BK & Woody all year!

It’s like Neon-Deon said, STAY TRUE TO YOUR BOO! You can’t have it both ways! Sorry Buddy!

Clyde I love you like a brother - but you need take your medicine and man-up! If You BOO me then - Then BOO me NOW!

Za Za got his sparring techniques on the practice floor when he went Pound for Pound with Solo last month!

So, I know he got the fight in him…LOL! It would have been classic Rodman -vs- Zo in that New York Series when Zo was suspended and the Knicks went on to lose the series! Classic! mmmmh!

ZA ZA is the HAWKS Laimbeer (Who BTW I would love to see Coach
our team is Woody does Leave)

As a true fan, I really don’t care who the GM or HC is - as long as we are WINNING! Why should anyone?

BK deserves an APOLOGY for all the crap he has to listen to considerin’ the ASG situation. No one in their right mind would have taken this job! BK has put together a really great and exciting team and that needs to be noted. Did he miss on some picks? Hell Yeah! Who the HELL hasn’t? Stop Cryin’ about CP3 and let’s move on people!

Winning Cures ALL! Beat Them’ TRICKS! hey Najeh Baby, I liked your post on the Celtics Blog! I put one on there too - So go check it out!

Hey RichBrave Baby I miss you soo much…lets blog each other up soon. I’m going to Miami, FLA on Friday with my team. I will try to keep up..very little time for now! Gotta Go home now and re-watch that Game 2 for the third time! LOL! I’m so excited!

By richbrave

April 29, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

HB:

Can you see how green I am from your computer?? And its not because I’m rooting for the Celtics. No, its because I was not able to be at Phillips yesterday nor will I be on Friday. I am green with envy at being unable to share in the Hawks triumph in HAWKSWORLD with the Blog Z Liars Club. I take heart in the hope that next year I may be able to do so.

By Ken Strickland

April 29, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

JOHN D is correct. Boston will try to slow the gm down and control the tempo. We need to take advantage of that and force them to take time off the clock. Boston is a veteran team and they’re very good at running their OFF. They start receiving instructions and concentrating on setting their OFF up as soon as the ball is inbound. We need to change their focus.

Fist, make them concentrate on getting the ball across half court before getting instructions and setting up. We should force them to take at least 7sec to get the ball accross half court. Then they will have to concentrate on getting into position to execute, another 3-4sec. By the time they make their 1st entry pass, their should no more than 10-12sec on the clock. That will help them slow the gm down, but will leave them little to execute their OFF options and force some rushed shots.

Another thing I’d like to see. Pierce, Allen, Posey and KG are their biggest outside threats. When one of them takes a shot, the defender should immediately take off. If the shot is missed, we have an easy basket. If it’s made, we still have a chance at an easy basket. Knowing you have to immediately get back to prevent an easy score off your shot could eventually affect your concentration and/or follow thru.

This strategy might not seem like big issues, but they can make a big difference in the 4th qtr. They can be especially effective when the OFF players are fatigued and/or leg weiry. Salim, West, Richardson, Chills, Acie and Solomon gives us the speed and quickness to pull it off.

By richbrave

April 29, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

P.S:

I told you so. I told you so. Just relax and enjoy the ride. There’s no downside to play-offs. The baby HAWKS are walkin’ and when they win on the road, they’ll be off and runnin’. Whomever’s left for next year has this year’s experience. And if the ASG can sell enough of Clyde’s T’s maybe they can bump up the $$$ a dozen million or so and take care of business.

drmaryb:

I’m with you girl. Don’t work too hard now and good luck down south.

By ray

April 29, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

drmaryb, All I’m saying is that if a cat says he’ll change his tune, and then is true to his word and does it….then forgiveness and harmony are in order. Otherwise, what kind of people are we? If you don’t agree, that’s cool. But I choose harmony. No hard feelings if you feel differently.

One other thing…I still think we’re putting too much stock into two playoff games. We’re loving what’s happening now. What happens when we lose? Unless we’re going to the NBA Finals and winning it all, that means somewhere along the line, we are going to lose. What then? Should we then attack everybody that is now pumping their fists in triumph? What if these are the only two playoff games we win this time around?

The way I see it, Billy and Woody, and the ASG are what they are. Then and Now. The players? Now I’ll support them any day. And as long as they work hard and continue to give the effort and maintain the attitude, they don’t get any noise from us. It’s when they don’t do what they’re supposed to that they get criticized. But I won’t elaborate on this anymore. This is the summer of change, if there is to be any real change. We shall see.

By drmaryb

April 29, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

Whew! Larry Brown the CLOWN is off the market, that was a close call. We don’t want that ISH in

here. I got a problem with Johnny Come Lately’s who show up to be a parent after the kid is 19 years old and barely legal!

Woody has been taken to the WOOD-SHED by a bunch of loser bloggers and now that the TEAM has been developed? -

Somebody like a Pat Riley or a Phil Jackson wants to come in here like Gruden taking Tony Dungy’s Championship after he put in all the work…But like Tony Dungy and all other hard workers - He went about his business and Won it Anyway!

So, how do you like him now! HA HA!

What in the world is going on in Dallas, TX. I just returned from there on Sunday via DELTA & all I heard about was the Mavs and the Hornets.

What is up with the so-called BOGUS MVP Dirk and J-Kidd? Not even gonna mention that BUM Jet-Terry. Thank God we got his THUMBS out of the A he fumbled more passes here than a little bit!

They got BEAT DOWN by the YOUNGIN’s…(4-1) nearly swept! The same way the young HAWKS are gonna’ beat them NOT-SO-PROUD Celtics!

HA HA HA! I always get the last laugh - Always!!!

By Slyde

April 29, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

FIRE DOC AND DANNY!!!

By doc

April 29, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

dmb did something get caught in the crack? i mean how many times must clyde say it which he has done and manned up to by dropping the line and saying repeatedly the hawks players proved him wrong. too many of us at the blog still think he is right about woody and bk but now is not the time. it may take another year or maybe never for woody to move on but for now clyde has been true to his word. i just doubt the basg is going to grant woody a four year multi-mil contract on two playoff wins and a 37 win team.

gee dmb, what do you want for clyde to do take you to rio on one of his many trips and show you a real good time and a few really good thongs? at some point you got to stop rubbing it in, i mean what is the point babe? you sound like a broken record made at the alpha boy recording studio.

btw, a solid assessment ando.

richie we will keep you at your word on the trip down, spring is a good time to visit and to check out the hawks and the braves. i remember one year in the early 80’s when ted owned both the braves and the hawks where i was sitting in the old atlanta stadium watching a cubs game on a cool spring night and the hawks were being broadcast into the center field screen during one of their playoff games. i know most dont believe it but the hawks were the team that brought professional sports respectability to atlanta for many years until ryder showed up, down hill ever since until saturday night.

By ssiscribe

April 29, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Spread the word, ‘till everybody’s heard … the name is the Hawks, and Atlanta is the town!

Good luck Hawks in Game 5 in Boston!

—30—

By MannyT

April 29, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe thanks for the CSKA article. It looks like there is a movie in there somewhere. Andersen at least gets a cameo in the Russian version of Entourage with his bomb proof door, limo, & attack of the fans story.

Freshmaker interesting to read how concerned Simmons is about gangstar Pierce’s back. I hope that works to the Hawks advantage.

mykhalc I don’t want to sound like 1/2 Clyde, so I’ll wait until the season ends, but I hear you loud and clear.

This is what Woody had to say for himself in the postgame Monday night. I’m not sure if he’s being modest or has very little to add during the game from a tactical perspective.

Looks like Phoenix & Houston still have some fight left in them.

BWAF

By drmaryb

April 29, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

hey ray-star

I am the eternal optimist and never pesimitic. I never see dark clouds only silver linings! That’s what I do! For me? Winning is an ATTITUDE! It makes life worth living when you can DREAM and HOPE!

(e.g. When the WNBA came to the A? I took a piece of paper and MANIFESTED that I will be their Team Chiro. - Why Not ME?)

Today, I was contacted and asked to submitt my CV and Resume’ for that positon…(because of what I do for the IWFL - Football team)…

Who Knew? -Jayson Williams NJ-Nets-

If the HAWKS can win two? Why not three? Why not four? The universe is a special place that gives you what you want!

Thoughts create Words create Actions create Character determines Destiny!

Why Not believe YOU can WIN? I predicted the HAWKS would make some NOISE and they are, So why stop now?

Let’s Beat these TRICKS! It is hard to beat one team 4 times in 7 games…that’s why the Playoffs are so special. Everyone is 0 - 0! The regular season means nothing!

ASK: Denver, Dallas, Phoenix, et.al.

I got mad love for ray-star You are a very skeptical man. You are special and my All-Star of communications. I can always agree to disagree espec. with you!

By doc

April 30, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

well, well, well, the thoughtful ssiscribe comes to share a few thoughts at the blog z liar’s table leaving the denizens faithful to the dob braves blog. welcome to some good times for as long as they roll.

richie, najeh, ba, look who just walked into our corner of the internet world.

ba btw did you ever score on the chop chick. heh heh heh … kidding.

By doc

April 30, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

well, well, well, the thoughtful ssiscribe comes to share a few thoughts at the blog z liar’s table leaving the denizens faithful to the dob braves blog. welcome to some good times for as long as they roll.

richie, najeh, ba, look who just walked into our corner of the internet world.

ba btw did you ever score on the chop chick. heh heh heh … kidding.

By Clyde

April 30, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

dmaryb listen. If you have noticed I have lightened up on Billy and Woody a little bit. I’m enjoying the ride like everyone else so I’m leaving the negativity alone until the ship sinks. I have a think called class on the inside of me. Now take your medicine.

By drmaryb

April 30, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

hey ray-star

But what if we win? Even if we don’t win it all? We competed and gave ourselves a chance to win - what more can you as a fan ask for?

Sometimes when you Win - You Lose and Sometimew when you Lose - You actually win!

That’s what has happened to me in my past, and that’s what happened to Larry Brown when he won in Detroit!

He WON it all - and was FIRED the next day! Explain That To ME.

What does KG, PP, RA, Tracy-McGrady The Mailman, Nique, Dan Marino…etc all have in common?

They are all LOSERS! But they are all Hall of Famers TOO? What does that tell us? It doesn’t matter if you win or lose - It’s how you play the game!

COMPETE and Your’e a WINNER!

By Clyde

April 30, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

Hey Doc I’m going to Rio May 5th. I would take dmaryb but American women don’t get much love down there. And where do yall hang out before the game? I’ll be at CNN around 6:30 or 7.

By drmaryb

April 30, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

hey doc

i have no idea what you are talkin’ about, I was responding to ray-star’s last post re: do not bash clyde?

Clyde is a basher himself! I can’t even read HBANDO - not enough hours in the day…I would go Bankrupt if I stopped to read ANDO!

I have not posted for some three weeks now, just so damned busy. I have not seen one post about anyone bashing clyde..i rarely read all these things.

I literally scroll on past anyone not named:

richbrave,doc,ray,mannyT,KenS,Najeh,salim,etc. & Jami$$on.

(That’s my hit list - unless i see my name? I’m Srollin Hard!)

I never read clyde posts because they usually say only four words! So if he is changing his BOO now?

I really wouldn’t know anything about all that! Based on what I have read before I weeded him out and 86’d him three months ago? I have no knowledge of him changing any tunes!

So forgive me, but there is no way I can read every single post on here..all I know about clyde is Fire BK & Fire Woody. (that’s it) So, I could care less about what he is saying now! I never read his stuff!

I was not now and never did read his stuff - So whatever! let’s move on!

That Thong-Song is so old, I forgot all about that too! In case you haven’t noticed I don’t say the same thing repeatedly. That was my old hit, but I got a new stuff out now …so you gotta update your I-Tunes!

LOL! I am so tired I have got to leave my office and go home now!

night-night But rest assured - I’ll be back!

By Clyde

April 30, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

Yeah mary go to sleep cause your not making sense. Don’t drink before you go to bed.

But to basketball Dallas and Phoenix were major disappointments this year. I thought both of those series would go 7 but it just didn’t happen. I think both of those teams need to try and get younger and quicker.

By drmaryb

April 30, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this

Hey clyde

You can’t take me to RIO on May 5th, I will be on South Beach in Miami with my football team and on an extended business/pleasure trip. I actually own property in RIO so if you want to you can stay at my place there for free!

(Just to show you I have no hard feelings.)

Nothing personal, but I really don’t read your posts! I am a very positive person by nature, so I don’t read a whole lot of negativity. Sorry, but I am not a bandwagon fan! I support my team and my org! I believe you should take the good with the bad - It’s called unconditional LOVE.

(I blame the ASG for all the bad stuff, but hey they hired BK & supported Woody when even the GM did not…Woody never lost the team - So why Hate?)

That is what I have for this team. I never in a million years want or wish anyone to lose their jobs - not even my enemies and certainly not my team.

(Why punish the man’s wife and kids?)

That is just - WRONGE!

I am sure, no one in that locker room wants to see BK & Woody fired?

Hell, if it weren’t for BK not one player in that room would be under contract - He put them there and he believed in them’ players even when YOU did not!

If not for BK? How would they pay their mortgages. Where I come from, even a DOG doesn’t bite the HAND that feeds it! Nor does a DOG SHAKE the HAND that is killing it - See** Belkin See Vick

If you have changed your tune, then Whoop-Dee-Doo! what do you want a TROPHY now? I am glad however to see that you are fighting your own battles on here. It’s nice to hear from the Man himself…I respect you more for that alone.

You don’t need a posse’ to have a dialogue-sp with me. If you have changed your tune? perhaps I will stop and read your POSTS now. In the past - however I did not find your four word chants to be that intriguing so I really tuned you out a long time ago!

Now, back to the real TOPIC - Go Hawks! If nothing else on here - I am CONSISTENT DEPENDABLE and UNWAVERING You always know what you are gonna get - The Whole Damned TRUTH!!! Believe That!

By drmaryb

April 30, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

yeah I know my stuff makes no sense if your IQ is low! Keep Scrollin’

By Clyde

April 30, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

How do you know I’m negative if you don’t read my posts? That sounds like rum punch talking.

By Volman

April 30, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

Everyone, calm down!!! (Clide, Mary)

Anyway, I have a question for everyone…

Was it not GREAT to see all of the guys on ESPN personally apologize to the fans of Atlanta as well as the Hawks for counting them out after a 2-0 deficit?

I thought that was awesome to see… Really awesome.

One more thing before I’ve gotta go study:

To the liar’s table, it was a GREAT thing to be able to meet up with all of you.. Really fun times.. We MUST do that again, honestly.

Go Hawks!

By HB Ando

April 30, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

Clyde, rum has never been so discombobulating. Let’s call a spade a spade, and just know that the crack rolls freely through the ATL.

Know what I’m sayin’?

By Poor Celtics :'(

April 30, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this

This picture says it all:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celticsblog/2008/04/nosuspensions.html

By BA

April 30, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

In regards to the “only thirty-seven wins” argument, I’d say exactly HALF of those games weren’t the current team. And you can discount six or seven of those before Bibby got acclimated/healthy. I think with Bibby in camp, they win at least ten more games next year, and that puts them close to fifty wins. That’s before you add another center (Andersen) and replace Salim with maybe an actual productive player. Woodson had this team ready, after two atrocious beat downs in a row. George Karl couldn’t do that. Neither could D’Antoni. And Ray, I give the players all the credit in the world, and I’m damn proud of them. But these young guys didn’t come together in this series by accident. This coach kept them together. Just like he did after that awful west coast road trip after the break. Like Fratello said the other night, these are young players, learning on the job, and so is their coach. People can change. Maybe if Woodson can just do his job next year without looking over his shoulder, he could be more effective. Billy Knight turned Shellhead and T.Lue into Bibby. He wasn’t the star, but we don’t win these last two without Bibby. Knight and Woodson should be off the hook, for at least next year. If they bring in new management, they could blow this team up. Probably bring in more “veterans” like Big Dog. Or midget guards like Dickau. No thanks. I’d just as soon stick with these kids a few years. By the way, declaring Marvin a bust when he’s barely twenty-two and has shown steady improvement in his three years makes no sense. Like I said before, don’t punish this kid because he isn’t playing out of his mind like Johnson and Smith.

By HB Ando

April 30, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this

Volman, I agree. Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to talk hoops with you during our impromptu gathering. Though I remain truly pleased with what could have been described as a “cold war” detente between myself and Astro Joe.

However, out of a desire to access your opinions, in person, if you should have an extra ticket, for Friday night’s game, feel free to reach out to Ando, as I am guaranteed to entertain……..

By ray

April 30, 2008 3:15 AM | Link to this

BA, if you want to give somebody a pass off of two playoff wins, so be it. As fascinated and thrilled as I am about our resurgence against Boston, we have not yet won the series. By the same vein, these two wins don’t eclipse all that has gone wrong. Change? Yeah, people can change. The problem is the illusion of change that people fall for. Doc Rivers and his squad won 24 games last year. This year, they won 66. How do you suppose that happened, because Doc Rivers is suddenly a genius? Boston was all but branded the NBA Champion without having played the first playoff game this year. Now, after getting shell-shocked two games in a row by the least successful team in the playoffs, a team they were supposed to crush, Doc and crew are looking like they don’t know what to do. Just like last year, Doc doesn’t know how to adjust. Did you see ONE double team against JJ in game 4? Not until 2 or 3 minutes left in the quarter. Yet, they consistently doubled him in the first 2 games? Why? The coach, that’s why. Suddenly the Celts don’t look so bulletproof because their coach doesn’t know how to adjust despite having every tool necessary to get the job done. There is no other explanation.

Am I taking credit away from our guys? NO! But look close and you will see the numerous in-game moves and adjustments that weren’t made to counter-act what we did (thank goodness for our sakes). A 37-win team did not over night become better than a 66-win team. We played harder, wanted it more, did what we had to do, etc. Hopefully we can continue to do so. It would be awesome. But let’s face facts: one of our best chances to beat these guys is the Woody clone they have over there: Doc Rivers.

I’m not going to mince words over how many games we would’ve won with Bibby because there’s just no way to tell. Had he been here all year, he could’ve been injured, or he could’ve been healthy. Who knows? 10 games better? I don’t know. Maybe. But definitely better.

How’s this for a question: do you want to see the team go through another season with all of it’s starters playing as many minutes as they did this past season? I don’t. I’d rather us have a more productive and involved bench. Do you expect Woodson to do what he hasn’t done for 4 years straight?

As for Knight, all I can say is the Bibby move was good. It makes up for some other moves, but carries a high price tag that we may not be able to pay. And if we can’t pay it, then what? Knight brought a lot of talent together. So did Isaiah Thomas. Do you see where I’m going with this? As for adding another center in David Andersen, have you researched this guy? Reports are that this guy maybe, just might have a slightly better , but similar skill set than Zaza Pachulia, who has fallen out of favor on our squad. His stats over there in the Euro Leagues are less than impressive. Just some food for thought, along with the idea that having the rights to him doesn’t guarantee he comes here. Those are just rights that apply to the NBA, not anywhere else. As for adding someone who is more utilized then Salim, we already have Jeremy Richardson. Again, the problem here is the coach. Who else decides who plays and who doesn’t?

I’m not downplaying what the team has done. I’m enjoying the heck out of it. But I’m not in any way, shape or form ignoring 4 years of results (including a “winning” percentage of maybe 35%) in favor of 2 playoff game wins, in a series that is yet to be decided. And if there’s a basketball/business brain cell to be found amongst the numerous memebers of the ASG, neither will they.

By ray

April 30, 2008 3:21 AM | Link to this

Personally, I think the team coming together was the players themselves bonding. I don’t see how Woody managed to do something he couldn’t do all season. I know he had a hand in it, but I don’t see it being an active, dominant hand.

Doesn’t matter though, let’s see if we can go into Boston and do what we’ve done the last two games. Doc Rivers isn’t showing me that he knows how to adjust at all, so that gives me more hope. We go in to Horford, and they couldn’t handle it. They then decided to clamp down on him but got torched by Josh Smith, and then by JJ, whom they forgot all about doubling up on. Strange, but I’ll take it: more wins for us!!

By ray

April 30, 2008 3:38 AM | Link to this

In a postseason of irony, here’s some of the best:

The two teams in the west that panicked the most after Gasol went to L.A. are also the first ones out of the playoffs in the west: Dallas and Phoenix. Wow.

Oh, and that guy Chris Paul? Well….he went for a triple double before making it to the second round of the playoffs. Yep. I thought somebody said he was going to be making a first round exit? Now who was it that was saying that….

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 4:00 AM | Link to this

Yeah, I think we can all agree at this point that the Kidd and Shaq trades were complete disasters. The way Kidd played in this series, Devin Harris might be better than him right now, let alone a few years from now. The Shaq trade may have worked out better with a coach that was willing to coach playoff basketball, who knows. Funny how both teams mortgaged their future to win a title now, and yet they each lost to teams that were largely built through the draft.

Speaking of which, D’Antoni is out in Phoenix apparently. Knowing what we now know about his weaknesses (doesn’t give a sh-t about defense) and strengths (pushes the ball and wants to score a lot of points) would he make a good hire for the Hawks? I think he would make the team better immediately, but I don’t know about the long-term impact completely neglecting defense would have on the development of our young players.

As far as this series is concerned, if there’s one thing Woody should get credit for it’s making smarter substitutions. The Hawks have won the last two games more because they had superior energy than anything, and I wouldn’t downplay the role of Horford’s leadership either. As pumped up as I am about the Hawks, I’ll only really start believing if they can play a down-to-the-wire game tomorrow at Boston, because that will really show me that this team has grown up mentally and didn’t just win the last two games because of the home crowd.

Regardless of what happens tomorrow, Friday promises to be a great game. And you can bet your azzes I will be there.

By mykhalc

April 30, 2008 4:48 AM | Link to this

Espn’s Truehoop blog

By mykhalc

April 30, 2008 4:51 AM | Link to this

forgot to add…HAWKS entry is 4th on the page.

By bigshelly

April 30, 2008 6:20 AM | Link to this

I would love to see the Hawks win this series, but if they don’t it’s all good. The Hawks prove that they can play and win against the big dogs of the NBA. For next season I would love for them to pick up the Chris Kaman from the Clippers, if he’s a free agent after the season. IMO, I think he would be the perfect fit for this team. A 15-12 guy. Don’t need to run plays for Kaman, just let him bang down low. Perfect line up MB,JJ,JS,AH,and Chris Kaman. Off the bench Acie,JC,MW,SJ,Richardson,West, and Zaza. I will keep Rich over Salim for size at the 2 spot. I know Kaman would put us in that echlon class to compete for the title for next five to six years.

By bigshelly

April 30, 2008 7:25 AM | Link to this

I would also love to see Bill Lambeer or Avery Johnson as coach of the Hawks next season.

By doc

April 30, 2008 7:55 AM | Link to this

wow dmb you knock a guy and continue to trash him and dont read his posts….. hmmmm…. you call him a basher …. hmmm ….. the old adage, takes one to know one ….hmmm …… claiming to change the tune but continuing the same personal attack theme on clyde ….. hmmm.

in the mean time have some fun in south beach territroy and good luck with the wnba stuff. agree with much of the tenor of the 1 am post and have said much of it myself over the years.

ba agree with the post above all except marvin, the dude has not gotten better statistically and certainly didnt measure up to the leaps that chris bosh made as he came into the nba under similar circumstances. check out his numbers extrapolate first year to now minutes and it is about the same. he was given a starters job and hasnt really been motivated to do much more. maybe this summer he will build his game and work on it more than playing pick up with guys that hang out at UNC during the summer and call it improvement.

ba i do agree he is a work in progress unfortunately i dont think he sees himself in the same way. he does lead well as a cheerleader off the bench and that does fit well in the team scheme of things but not what you want as the signature move of a second pick in the draft. look his two trips down the court with the ball saturday and monday looked like want you see at the 10 yr rec league not in the nba.

clyde will be at the pizza parler area just outside of the doors to the arena but it will be later than 7 i imagine. if not there maybe at the space between pretzels and black jack at halftime.

volman look forward to seeing you and the rest friday, will probably have my son in tow as well. manny t you up for a pretzel? jhan you coming or taking the night off?

By jhan

April 30, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

Doc, I’ll be there for the halftime festivities for sure. I wouldn’t miss this game!

Can’t wait to see what happens tonite in Boston. If they could only pull off the miracle!

See you boys Friday.

By corey

April 30, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

I want to see woodson coah next year he deserves it he has the team playin g and believing in his system i bet woodson wants to tell all the haters to kick rocks

By doc

April 30, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

hey ray were you referring to my fearless forecasts? heh heh

if this had been an office pool my brackets would have been torn up by the third week. i imagine there are a few in the same boat that is sinking …… fast.

yeah suns fans i’ll pull a dr mary b and rub it in a bit, where are you now. he who laughs last laughs loudest? early exitville BABY! you wouldnt pay jj 10 mil more and now you pay diaw who kept throwing the ball out from the lane area he had moved into instead of backing genobli two more feet and doing a turn around over him. do you not think jj wouldnt have shot and made those shots? now for two draft choices and sending thomas packing to save 8 mil he stands at the line and sinks your team with free throws after boarding 12 bounds and you were trashing us just two short years ago on our blog? where are you now? maybe you shall have the evil curse of corporate/ownership incompetence come your way. enjoy your 15th pick in the first round guys!

By C's rule!

April 30, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Celtics in 4.

Oh, wait…

By richbrave

April 30, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

doc:

Thanks for remembering. I’m a man of my word. See you then.

By Astro Joe

April 30, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Is it game time yet?

By MannyT

April 30, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Steven A Smith took his medicine and took a full mea culpa about giving the Hawks no chance to even win a game last week.

Dana J. replayed his comments where he said the only chance was to pray.

I’ll give him credit for admitting he was wrong.

BWAF

By Chikara

April 30, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

MannyT if you or someone could find that clip of Smith eating his plate of crow i’d be forever in your debt!

As for D’Antoni, I do think he’d be the perfect coach for this team. One problem with Phoenix all these years is that they never had anyone who was good enough to play one-on- one defense with the likes of the Spurs or Mavericks. Many times they would have to rely on double teams.

In Atlanta D’Antoni would get the best of both worlds. He could implement his up tempo style (which obviously has worked for the Hawks) and he’d have three solid defenders in Josh Smith, JJ, and Horford. If he’s still available after the playoffs Atlanta has to make that move.

By the way, where are all of those people who blasted me when I said Atlanta could hang with any team in the East back in early April?

drmaryb richbrave guess we can kiss the Wizards goodbye after tonight. It’s refreshing to see a team like the Hawks who know how to step up.

By doc

April 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

a little national media attn that is hard to argue since we do it all the time: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AopKSeNPmd8H1Er6BfzR69y8vLYF?slug=ys-hawksrevival043008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

By Sautee

April 30, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Volman

Thanks, belatedly for your acknowledgement of my point. I’ve been out of town (missing BOTH Sat. and Mon. games). I love being a musician, but there are times when it gets in the way of my hoops jones. But GOD, am I ever excited about this team.

doc

Marvin reminds me of a high school sophomore that looks talented, but hasn’t grown into his body yet. NOT what I envisioned when I heard “a once-in-ten years” player. But I’d still give him time unless you could get a bona fide starter for him in trade.

Let’s shock the world again tonight! Win tonight and maybe some FA bigs will be interested.

By doc

April 30, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

above article just about summed it all up, yes?

By Matt

April 30, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Doc,

Sorry to rehash this old thing again, but Marvin actually has improved each season statistically.

Check out his stats here if you don’t believe me.

He’s improved every year in points per game, points per 36 minutes, effeciency (PER), steals, and assist-to-turnover ratio. He’s also posted career highs this year in field goal percentage (plus all the APBRmetric derivatives thereof) and free throw percentage. The only areas where he didn’t post career bests are in blocks per game, blocks per 36 minutes, and rebounds per 36 minutes (and I would argue that the rebounds one is largely due to the presence of Horford on the boards).

HOWEVER, I am starting to come around to the idea that Marvin is never going to live up the potential that the pundits, scouts, Knight, and ‘Nique saw in him in 2005. All I’m saying is that it’s not true that he hasn’t improved statistically - even if you convert his numbers into per minute averages, he has improved every year.

By HB Ando

April 30, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

From an article on potential coaching vacancies (focused mainly on the possibility that D’Antoni might be leaving the Suns):

“In Atlanta, Mike Woodson’s been on the hot seat long enough to have a common-law claim on its ownership. We don’t know if breaking even in four playoff games with the Celtics is enough to save Mike’s job.

But we’d certainly like to see how he’d do with Chris Paul suiting up instead of Marvin Williams or Brandon Roy instead of Shelden Williams.

Too bad for Woodson that GM Billy Knight’s fondness for draft picks named Williams did not inspire him to select Deron.”

Seems there are lots of folks, on the national scene, who are just as unwilling as me to forgive and forget Billy Knight’s franchise crippling draft decisions…………..

With an upgraded GM and head coach, and a core commitment to (re)build around Horford, Smith and Joe Johnson, the excitement you’ve seen in the last two, highly improbably, wins, could go from shocking and unlikely to happen again, any time soon, to annual, and legitimate, expectations.

Being there Monday night was a truly awesome moment. And I can’t wait to watch tonight’s game, and I’m still looking to beg, borrow or steal a seat for Friday’s game.

But there are valid, logical reasons why no one covering the Atlanta Hawks, and the NBA, believed this series would end in anything other than a sweep. And that logic dictates new leadership and a new coach, regardless of the outcome of the next few games.

By mykhalc

April 30, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

if MARVIN just brought the kinda effort every nite that he showed in SEA then he’d be makin’ BIG steps!!! MW just has NOT decided to do the ‘other’ things that could make this team better and make his game more complete!!!

personally, i think most of it youth. MW’s body laguage, to me, says he’s JUST UNSURE!!! and he’s thinkin’ toooooo much when he’s out on the court. how else do you explain him forgettin’ how to dribble on a potential breakaway in game 3??? (think it was gm 3)

you know, havin’ heard a couple of his interviews, i’m not so sure MARVIN wanted to come outta school early. his constant answer has always been, ‘he needed to do what was best for his family’. imagine a 19yr old, who didn’t start in college, now bein’ deemed a talent that only comes around but so often.

yeah, we can say LEBRON was even younger, and SMOOVE too, but these cats probably didn’t think about college more than 1 second before their decision to enter the draft. they KNEW what they wanted and when!!! i just DO NOT get the same vibe from MARVIN!!! and to me, his game kinda reflects that!!!???!!!

By BA

April 30, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

To answer your question Ray, no, two playoff games don’t eclipse what was wrong. But in fairness, I was blogging here a month ago about how, in my opinion, this is now a fifty win team. I had written Woodson off, but maybe too soon. The possibility exists that he is a reverse Bobby Cox- rough in the season, great in the postseason. Either he DID rally this team together after the Boston games, or he at least was smart enough to let them gel on their own. But I just don’t see that happening. It’s probably somewhere in the middle. As far as another year with no subs, I think if Woodson wasn’t coaching with his back against the wall, you’d see a more reasonable rotation. And hey, I’d be thrilled if Andersen turned out to be Pachulia revisted. That’s what we need- role-players. We have the starters. I don’t expect the guy to be Mehmet Okur, just another big off the pine (which we need). And yeah, Rivers had made some mistakes. But it boils down to execution. Ray Allen and Cassell are awful on defense. The Hawks exploited Ray Allen. Anyway, the way Joe went off the other night, I don’t think anything could have stopped him. I hope the Hawks realize how pivotal tonight is. If they can pull out the win, this thing is OVER on Frday.

By mykhalc

April 30, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Avery dismissed a MAVS coach

By SalimFan

April 30, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Game 5 Scouting Report!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Friday’s game is officially sold out. I went by the box office a couple of hours ago to get a couple of extra tickets and they were just taping up the “sold out” sign on the window.

While I’m on that topic… has anyone noticed that the ticket window people are all a bunch of jackazzes? They all look like they would be anywhere in the world other than right there right then.

In other news… Kevin Durant wins the Rookie of the Year as expected. I know the playoffs don’t figure into ROY voting, but I can’t see how anyone can watch these playoffs and vote Durant over Horford.

Finally, Bob Rathbun is being interviewed on ESPNEWS right now.

By doc

April 30, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

MATT DUDE! I SEE IN 25 MIN AS A ROOK 8.5 and 4.5; THIS YEAR 14.8 AND 5.7 IN 35 MIN. AVG OUT THE ROOK YEAR TO 35 MIN AND YOU GET 11.9 AND 6.3 ONE IS UP AND ONE DOWN BUT VEEERRRRYYYY SIMILAR. neither one of us are mathematicians but you add that to his plus minus figures which are awful for both of his years as a starter and he has maybe only improved an inch. again, not the type of rise that you saw in chris bosh who came out after one year and made an impact by his third year. nope it is hard to justify marvin and he needs to get a grip and get to work.

MATT YOU SOUND LIKE AN ENABLER HERE DUDE! LET US WORK TO GET THIS KID TO BECOME WHAT HE IS DESTINED TO BE AS A SECOND PICK AND NOOO LESS!

catch my drift? i’ll put it another way. maybe you are filled with promise and are someone with a lot of potential but i would want my daughter marrying someone with credentials and he aint got them. get it? so i dont want my team marrying up to marvin just as i wouldnt my daughter to marry someone with potential only.

like my emphasis? i learned it from ken, dr mary b and myk, blame it on them. LOL!!!!! yeah baby!

By SalimFan

April 30, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Bob Ryan and the rest of the Bostonians are getting a little sweaty under the Colla up in Beantown

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

April 30, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

People,

Never one to discourage discourse- esp when it involves the merits/demerits of Duck, I would however like to hear points on how the Hawks can sustain this “momentum” they have going for them. At some point we’re going to have the summer to talk shop- right now we’re still playing.

What I find very encouraging is the fact that we won in two different ways the past two games. Game 3 was a clinic in team basketball; eveyone made the extra pass (cue Al Horford in the ‘where _ happens spot) and finished well. We were able to outrun the C’s and flat out out played them. We came out juiced and played with confidence to validate the phrase “this is why the we play the games”.

Game 4 was more of a test of mettle. We fell behind to get back, only to fall back behind, only to come back and take AND MAINTAIN a lead. It was our team defense and hustle- which is to say nothing of Joe and Smoov owning the 4th. We won despite committing more TO’s and being grossly outshot behind the arc.

In order to win in the bean we are going to need the rest of the squad to step up- namely Duck and Bibby. Joe is all but guaranteed to be doubled if he scores more than 2 baskets in a qtr. It will be incumbent upon them to knock down the open shots. Smoov and to a lesser extent Chills should drive the lane to draw fouls and get to the line. Al should also merit some attention in the paint early to see if we can get Perk into foul trouble.

Winning at home is one thing- which we’ve proved fairly capable of. Being a young, energetic team, we clearly feed of that. On the road however the squad needs to turn inward and internalize the “Me against the world” to combat the Garden’s denizens.

Expect a drop in production of Joe and Smoov due to change of venue/strategy. If Bibby can get 17+ on 43% with 6 asst, Duck nets 15 and 7, and Horfod gets back to a double double we should be in it. The C’s are going to hit their shots at home, we just have to limit the open looks and lapses on D. If we’re able to do that and were sure to…..

RISE UP

Anyone else got a game plan?

By mykhalc

April 30, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

DOC, LOL!!! don’t forget to put a fist in the air for your bro out here in SF!!! GO HAWKS!!!

ZAZA…punk ‘em again!!!!

By Melvin

April 30, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

Horford was robbed. Maybe if he had avg 10(not 9.7)rebs along with 10 points they would have made him at least a Co-ROY… Oh well, I will be in the house this Friday. Coming all the way from Cola,SC. I hope the crowd will be hype like last Saturday’s game. Monday nite crowd look hype as well from the TV screen but I didn’t attend that one… Go Hawks.

By Matt

April 30, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

I DON’T SEE HOW A 25% IMPROVEMENT MAKES HIS STATS VEEERRRRYYYY SIMILAR.

AND I’M NO ENABLER, DOC!!!!! I’M NOT SAYING THE DUDE HAS IMPROVED ENOUGH BECAUSE HE SURELY HASN’T. I’M JUST SAYING THAT HE HAS IMPROVED!!!!!!!!

Alright, now that I have that out of my system. We aren’t disagreeing at all that Marvin needs to stop pussyfooting around and get to work on attacking the basket, extending his range, and working harder on both ends of the floor (especially defense). He is a monumental underachiever. And if you seriously read my last post rather than just interpreting it the way you wanted to interpret it (sorry, doc, but that’s what it seemed like you did), you’d see that I’m not enabling him. It’s absurd to say that just because I’m saying that he has improved that I must be saying that he’s improved enough. All year I’ve been saying that he’s underachieving. I thought the problem was just Woodson, but I freely admitted in my last post that I’m starting to think he may never live up to his potential.

COME ON, DOC!!!!!!!!! GIVE ME MORE CREDIT THAN THAT!!!!!!!!!!

(How ‘bout THAT emphasis!)

By Ryder

April 30, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

HBAndo usually you and I don’t see eye to eye (impossible since it’s on the internet, but you get my point) but your last post is completely on the ball.

After the first two games the rest of the NBA nation finally saw what we’ve noticed the past four years: that Mike Woodson is the wrong coach for this band of high flyers. Were the two wins over Boston due to his leadership, or was it the fact that Atlanta finally realized they would have to dictate their own pace instead of waiting to counterpunch?

Bk’s selections have certainly been ridiculed, and can we say that the trade for Bibby was enough to justify what he has done throughout the years?

All excitement aside, one must look at the championship aspirations of this team. I think any head coach who is looking for a prime opportunity would look at Atlanta as a place to make a name for themselves.

I really believe Avery Johnson would be ideal for this team. He wouldn’t have to worry about a micromanaging owner and he would have a roster full of young budding talent. The difference between Dallas and Atlanta would be while Dallas may have more talent the Hawks have way more HEART. Do you think the Hawks would’ve just stood by had someone tapped Joe Johnson on the face as opposed to Dirk?

Games 3 & 4 shows what happens when you have a disciplined team that has athletic talent such as the Hawks. Teaching them to be smarter with the ball will only lead to better long term results.

doc Marvin does have the talent to become a full blown scorer. Unfortunately though he’s not getting that from Woodson, and it shows in this series. Marvin has the kind of jumper that would make teams pay for leaving him open, and even if he was ‘Nique 2.0 that would be enough for Bibby to play more of a facilitator role and JJ wouldn’t have to burden the 4th quarter scoring. Also, J Smith would be able to attack with abandon.

I think an Avery Johnson or Mike D’antoni would do wonders for his offensive confidence.

By doc

April 30, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

remember he also dropeed by 10 % on his bounds but in your own barrister way you overlooked that fact, speaking of looking where you want to look. are to compare him with the production of bosh, d wil, paul or the no.1 of that year or josh smith at the same age or year of career … two choices there. yeah duck needs to get off of his duckb*tt this summer and do more than be a good cheerleader.

matt you know all good, enjoy the repartee. i’ll give you cred for becoming a good one for carrying the argument, a job requirement.

myk, i’ll continue to give the two fisted salute for all the high flying antics come friday night.

yeah matt i got it out of my system.

By Astro Joe

April 30, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Ando, have the Thrashers hired a coach? 7 months and counting.

Here’s what I would do. I would fire BK and hire Fratello as our Prez of B’ball Ops. Promote Gary Fitzsimmons to GM reporting into Fratello. I’d keep Woody and give him the opportunity to prove himself with a roster that should be much more attentive to coaching next season. I’m assuming that he will ultimately fail (even with some guidance from Fratello) and then Fratello takes dual role as Head Coach. A true Czar. Make sure Fratello hires someone to groom (Steve Smith? Rick Mahorn?) Of course, if we can’t grow our salary cap to $63M, then what’s the point?

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

When Josh Smith came out of high school one of the knocks on him was that he had small hands and that’s why he couldn’t control the ball. I’d like to know how big Marvin’s hands are, because there’s gotta be something wrong with them for him to get stripped EVERY SINGLE TIME he drives inside.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

“Do you think the Hawks would’ve just stood by had someone tapped Joe Johnson on the face as opposed to Dirk?”

Nah… Zaza would have f-cked them up.

By doc

April 30, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

ryder the problem with marvin’s shot is he is afraid to shoot it, his range is marginal and he usually is wide open because of a reason as he only hits maybe 45% with open looks from 15 to 18 feet. not exactly what i want in a sharp shooter and yes his range, accuracy and desire to take the big shot hasnt changed one bit from when he came into the league.

on the other hand he is a good kid, means well, tries hard and is a team player. that is not what i want in a second rounder or a seasoned vet not a two pick. this is his summer to prove me wrong and i really think he can and will. he is going to follow the money … right aj. i believe his agent will see to it as his pay is dependent on it if nothing else. if his agent is smart he has done his homework and has already lined up his agenda for the summer.

aj, dont like fratello, self promoter and only as good as doug collins not what will take you higher. get me rudy t.

By Matt

April 30, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

My last word on this (for today). I conceded in my first post that he backtracked in rebounding this year, so I hardly “overlooked that fact.” And besides - the big drop was from his rookie year to last year. He actually improved his rebounds per 36 minute average from last year to this year (while Josh Smith’s rpg and per 36 minutes actually went down slightly). I’m guessing that if Horford weren’t there to clean up glass, Marvin would have even more rpg this year.

Also, his PER went up by a substantial margin this year, and PER is widely regarded as the best indication of a player’s contributions across all statistical categories.

Finally for the billionth time, I want to give the disclaimer that I’m not saying that he’s improved enough - only that he has improved. If anything, his statistical contributions fail to capture the fact that he has played with little passion, and his defense has been just plain bad both on and off the ball. I do know my statistics, though, and I did acknowledge Marvin’s weak points there.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Dammit… Woody Paige and Bill Plaschke picked the Hawks to win tonight. Exactly what we need, for the national media to start jinxing our team, damn.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Wilbon too! Aaaaaaaaaaaaah

By infamouskrs

April 30, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

this is going to be as hostile an enviroment as any team has seen all season! rating will be through the roof….hearing Wilbon talk about the game as being one that he’s “EXCITED ABOUT WATCHING” the battle has got to be enough to get the boys a few TNT spots next season.

HERE’S to hoping for a game 4 “look-a-like” effort tonight!

By Ryder

April 30, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Najeh let me be the first one to say: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

doc I love Rudy T but does he still have heart issues? The first time he sees Josh Smith bringing up the ball only to turn it over on a fast break he may have a heart attack.

By infamouskrs

April 30, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Ryder…is that Josh bringin’ the ball up the court…or “Marvelous” diving his way to the other end? i guess both would qualify!

By cp

April 30, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

The Celtics are going to come out early and try to put us away. We have to be able to substain the energy they are going to bring in front of the home court. .. We have to keep the turnovers and bad shots to a minimum… I think Marvin will have to be the X factor… He has to do more than he has the first 4 games… He needs to finish better and take care of the ball. He gets stripped of the ball way to easy… I think if we keep it close for the first 3 quarters we have a good chance.

By ray

April 30, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

BA, I get what you’re saying. And really, all this banter is useless, because in all likelihood…the decisions have already been made. That and the ASG is going to do what they’re going to do. Oh well, just like tonight’s game…all we can do is watch.

Astro Joe, that’s an interesting idea you have. Some people don’t like the idea of Fratello coming in, but you never know. Having him here and giving Woodson a one year deal to see what he can do with this team is interesting, but we don’t know yet what this team is going to look like next season. I like the idea of grooming somebody as a replacement if Fratello has to roam the sidelines.

Conversely, what do you think of Avery Johnson? Of course, if we get a replacement at the head coach position, who knows what guy would be interested in coming here….

By ray

April 30, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

And now all three trolls have jumped squarely on the bandwagon….just in case there is a bandwagon…

By drmaryb

April 30, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

Hey Najeh Davenpoop

You don’t have to worry about the Hawks being Jinxed! The Green people have awakened the sleeping Jolly Green Giant!

Do you remember my Three word post three weeks ago?

David & Goliath

I figured there was Brilliance in Brevity on that particular day. But, this is what I envisioned. So, IMHO I feel the Hawks have Destiny on their side and no one can stop this train!

The Hawks will win this series! What makes me irritated is that on the Celtics Blog, they are over there talking about LeBron & the Cavaliers and what they must do to beat them?

Heck, they need to figure out FIRST how they are gonna’ get past these FIRED-UP HAWKS!

Bibby has brought a SWAGGER to this team and his trash talking is an example of a Leader Firing up his team-mates. His comments reminded me erily of David Justice calling out the fans of the A for sitting on their corporate hands during the WORLD SERIES run like they were at the WIMBELDON watchin’ a Tennis Match or something. You could literally hear a Pin-Drop at them’ games. Then, what happens? - Yep!

Justice goes out the next day and hits the winning HOME-RUN against the INDIANS to WIN the World Series!

And like Larry Brown in Detroit? - He’s Gone! TRADED? That’s my earlier point of how when:

Sometimes when you LOSE you actually WIN & Sometimes when you WIN you actually LOSE! Go Figure.

Hey richbrave & Chikara Good to read your posts, as always good stuff and great details!

Hey clyde are we friends now?
I am adding you to my HITLIST of posters I like to stop and read whenever time permits! Perhaps, I will run into you in RIO sometime soon?

What up - doc and ray-star? I see Durant stole the ROY as expected. I see heads are rolling in Dallas & Phoenix! Looks like our Hawks have out-performed them all.

And what makes that so special, is the HAWKS are going toe to toe with the Best Record in entire NBA!

Woody is starting to COACH now, Acie and SOLO gettin’ in there early, but not often enough for me. SOlo reminds me of a Theo Ratliff type player, if he got some PT? - He could be a Block Shot Threat to help out J-Smoove on the Offensive Boards!

I am so excited about tonight - I feel butterflies in the pit of my stomach. I hope the Hawks don’t get too rattled tonight, It seems like BIBBY is the emotional leader on this team in the huddles and probably the practices and the locker room too - what do you think - ray-star? A ray-of-hope? LMBoobiesO!

By infamouskrs

April 30, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

the Hawks bandwagon had better have some BIG A$$ wheels !

By infamouskrs

April 30, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

i absolutely LUV the halftime spy cams on TNT (locker room)…..makes you feel alittle inspired if your team isn’t the ones on the other end of a “sour” first half!

nice to see ya again “ANDRO” ! wishin’ lately that i was in driving distance to be able to have a pretzel with tha fellas @ halftime! NICE ENTRIES as of late…….

we’re on a shamrock hunt tonight….

By Astro Joe

April 30, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Ray, I’m still concerned about how badly Avery botched the series against Warriors last year. He’s clearly an upgrade over Woody but I’d feel better about someone who isn’t coming off 3 poor endings to playoff series. And I also think that Woody should get a chance to coach this team when the guys who previously may not have listened (Smith & Marvin) will be more willing students. Again, I would expect him to still fail but I think he deserves the shot.

Doc, I think Fratello brings comparable credibility as LB but with better stability. Rudy T is a great idea, if we were certain that health concerns wouldn’t force him back into retirement after 20-30 games.

Is it game time yet?

By doc

April 30, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

matt, i am glad to see you have finally agreed with my position on marvin especially since you have gotten it about j smash too nice to know you are young enough to learn and respect your elders. ;-)

By infamouskrs

April 30, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

here’s to hoping MARV wins the “SLIP AND SLIDE (Wet Banana to others) AWARD” !

GET PHYSICAL ALL NIGHT young HAWKS…it is destiny~~~~~~~

By infamouskrs

April 30, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

so funny how we’re bullying around an NBA top team….but it is so evident that the WOODDROW has got to go! he’ll end up coaching some college team…so his kids WILL EAT !

now BK on the other hand…..he might have a little trouble finding work….considering he’s a AROGANT A*******whole!

By drmaryb

April 30, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

hey ray-star

I like Craig Hodges or Bill Laimbeer, wee need some tough-minded defensive ex-player/coaches in here. Someone, to teach these cats how to play team defense and keep that intensity up.

Hey, Lenny Wilkens had his teams playing great team defense,,,,even broke-knees smitty was a great defender, with Deke and Mookie. The only knock is Lenny does not trust or play rookies.

But if his entire team is 23 YOA , then well he would have no choice but to play the youngins’

But no Avery J. and No D’Antoni …If they could not win with them rosters? I don’t think they could win here either!

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Really nice shot by Marvin over Pierce. If he can attack Pierce and/or Ray Allen off the dribble more it would take a lot of pressure off our guards to score.

You can already sense the difference home-court makes in this game. The Hawks look a little disorganized right now especially on the defensive end. Luckily the C’s haven’t really capitalized yet.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

How much more flopping does Powe have to do before the refs catch on? You gotta be kidding me…

By richbrave

April 30, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Well, well, well. The Wizards lose Arenas and live to fight another day. Instead of standing around and waiting for “Gil to do it”, the Wizards pull a road victory out by one. No question he will be back next year. Not now. His value on the market is kaput!!!

By mykhalc

April 30, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

richbrave, congrats to your WIZs tonite. showed some heart!!!

MARVIN does not want to be seen!!! i really hate the lineup WOODSON went to. IMHO he shoulda pulled MARVIN, put in SALIM or JRICH for scorin’ and let CHILS roll to the 3 spot. absolutely NO scroin’ threat in this lineup now!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Quality minutes from Acie Law today. Woody needs to put Joe Johnson back in the game though. So what if he picks up another foul. We need some scoring right now to get back in this game.

By terrell barron

April 30, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Joe has 2 fouls, but you gotta put him back in Woody! This is DO OR DIE! We were hanging around until he went out. Come on Baldy, we’re toast without Joe.

By terrell barron

April 30, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Try Richardson or Salim. Marvin’s off! How about Solomon Jones to stop all the offensive rebounds. THINK WOODY, THINK!

By SalimFan

April 30, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

I am seriously getting TIRED of MARVIN now!!! He can’t hold on to S H I T!! Ray hit a 3 dammit!!!

By terrell barron

April 30, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Damn GOOFY, will you please stop fumbling rebounds! I’m trying to stay on your goodside, but your’re trying my patience.

By mykhalc

April 30, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

pleeeeaaasssee give CHILS the minutes in the 2nd half!!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Marvin has a rebound in his hands, it gets snatched away from him by Glen Davis, and Ray Allen drains a 3 on the ensuing possession.

I swear Marvin’s mentality is the exact opposite of Horford. Dude doesn’t want contact, doesn’t want pressure, doesn’t want to step up to anyone, and you can see it right there. Where is the aggressiveness? Why is he not going after the ball instead of waiting for it to come to him?

By terrell barron

April 30, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Flagrant foul, Are you kidding me? The refs are at it again! Giving the so called STARS all the freakin calls.

By cp

April 30, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Bibby is giving us nothing.. Marvin is giving us nothing.. Pachulia was getting destroyed on the defensive end out there. I hope they give his minutes to Solo. Marvin is loosing easy rebounds.. Bibby can’t hit a shot. We need scoring but Mr Potato head refuses to see if Salim or Richardson can be a spark. If Bibby comes out in the third and struggles pull him and let Law play. Give Richardson or Salim some burn. We need to get some type of scoring going. Put Mario in and let him hound somebody. We have to try something different here. If it wasnt for Josh Smith we might be down 30 right now.

By Melvin

April 30, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

Celtics are getting all the calls. KG deserves an Oscar for the acting job he put on after foul by Horford. He made the Refs call that foul a Flagrant. And that foul on Rondo to stop the Hawks break after the ball cross halfcourt was terrible… Those banners in the rafters must be influencing the Refs tonite…

By Macaroni Tony

April 30, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe how the NBA protect the people that they love. That was a hard foul the Horford put on KG but a flagrant-one b** please. WE are going to have to get out and run, because Boston is still scared.

By ajw

April 30, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Marvin needs to sit the rest of the game. He is sucking tonight. Anyone else can play better than he is tonight. Larry Brown would never let Marvin play. Anyways, we can’t get a single call going our way except when Josh Smith goes to the basket. He needs to do that every time. He is really becoming unstoppable.

By preston

April 30, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

cp-this is why I want Woodson outta here……he refuses to play Salim or Richardson…two guys that could give us much more than Williams….Bibby is struggling again…we are down by 15…we need some freakin’ scores on the floor!!!!!!!

By Clyde

April 30, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

Woody please realize the team plays much better when Marvin is on the bench. In games 3 and 4 the Hawks erased double digit leads when Marvin went to the bench. Lets face it the kid just ain’t ready. Swallow your pride Woody and quit trying to prove he was worthy of the number two pick in the draft.

drmaryb we can be freinds if you rent your property out to me May 5-7. And show me how you got yours.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

If this was the first Hawks game I ever saw, I would swear Bibby was the rookie and Acie Law was the veteran.

Come on Woody, get Acie in the game.

By doc

April 30, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

oops, someone forgot to give woody the special juice in the water bottle … manny t’s concoction of super glue and water. we will see how it goes after his pep talk.

go hawks!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

You can tell as Marvin releases the ball whether or not he’s gonna make the shot. If his body is not going straight up in the air perfectly he is gonna miss to the side. In other words he’s basically incapable of shooting off the dribble with his current shooting form. That mid-range J that we think is so good only works for set shots where the pass hits him right in the chest. Jeremy Richardson is rolling over in his grave.

By alm

April 30, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

WHY IS MARVIN ON THE FLOOR….IT’S NOT HARD TO FIGURE OUT…HE’S THE WEAKEST LINK…DAMNIT…THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING

By ntrigue

April 30, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Marvin looks like he is playing hot potatoe instead of basketball!!! I wish they would give Solo some of his minutes when he is playing like this!!!

By new jersey faithful

April 30, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

THESE REFS ARE JUST PATHETIC…AS ALWAYS!! GO HAWKS!!!!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

Wow, Bibby, you really suck.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Something just occurred to me… you know who Bibby is playing like right now?

Which point guard do we know that dribbles too much, can’t penetrate, barely jumps on his jumpshots and doesn’t really set his teammates up with easy shots the way a point guard should?

That’s right, folks, we are paying $14 million for Tyronn Lue.

By preston

April 30, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

If Woodson would use his freakin head now he would just use joe as a decoy….the celtics are double teaming him now, and all we need is to make them pay by having another shooter on the floor…….Acie can hit the open jumper, or even drive to the hole…Salim can hit the open jumper……….I can not stand Woodson..the guy makes me sick!!!!!

By mykhalc

April 30, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

the moment is just too big for MARVIN!!! it’s so clear!! and i ain’t even hatin’ on him!!! but he’s not ready!!!

By Melvin

April 30, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Why don’t Woody put AC in the game. He can’t see that we are having problems getting into our offense.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

What is it gonna take for someone to stick a hand in Ray Allen’s face?

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

That’s pretty much the most disastrous way they can end the 3rd quarter. Until that last sequence I could have maybe seen them mounting a comeback. Now, I don’t really think so.

And it seems the Woody Woodpecker Show has returned with all-new episodes. Why the hell Joe Johnson is playing the point, when he’s having a hard enough time getting an open shot already, when Acie Law has been doing a decent job, I have absolutely no idea.

By SalimFan

April 30, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

We need salim and J-Rich in there right now. JJ the decoy, drive and kick.

They’ve succeded in cutting off our fastbreak, we have to hit threes.

By preston

April 30, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this

najeh……at least Lue was consistent with his shot though….it seem like he was always draining his three’s and hitting big shots for us.

By new jersey faithful

April 30, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

I dont know how people watch the NBA if their favorite team isnt playing. I would never watch this garbage if the Hawks werent on. The refs just kill it for me, and its bad on both ends, not just against the Hawks.

By Melvin

April 30, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

BWAF, let’s see if he makes any adjustments before the end of the game. Oh well, I will be in the stands cheering Friday….

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

True, I’m probably not giving T-Lue enough credit… he did hit some clutch shots. Bibby seems to be incapable of doing even that. It’s just that his playing style is so similar to Lue when he’s playing bad, I just had to point that out.

By preston

April 30, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

This is what p** me off…….. a 20 point lead…..there aint no way in hell that the hawks are going to win this game….everyone and their mama knew that the celtics would make the adjustments on Joe….but Woodson did nothing to throw a monkey wrench into the equation……no Acie….no Salim…..or Jrich……..TNT should Woodson telling his team at halftime that everone on the team would have to contibute in the 2nd half in getting back into the game???????? WTF was he talking about???????

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Nice move Marvin! Very smooth!

But why do these nice plays always seem to come when the game is out of reach and never in crunch time?

By Macaroni Tony

April 30, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Marvin is trying to do alittle better. Six straight points.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Well, I’ll try to look for the silver lining here (word to drmaryb)… on a day when Al Horford was robbed of the Rookie of the Year award, he’s put up another performance to show everyone they screwed up by voting for Durant.

By Juice

April 30, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

Is it me or does it seem that Bibby can’t handle the ball at all in traffic. The last two games I’ve seen him dive on the floor because he looses the ball in traffic.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

Getting outplayed is OK. Getting out-hustled is not. Right now the Hawks are getting outhustled.

By preston

April 30, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

Yeah Najeh, Marvin scores the most garbage points of any player that I have ever seen.

By Macaroni Tony

April 30, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Marvin just scored six straight, but we’re not getting calls. This is the worse game ever…..I don’t how those officals lasted this long in the league.

By Ken Strickland

April 30, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Woodson has reverted back to his old self. Refusing to effectively use his bench and not applying pressure on the ball. Boston, on the other hand, is doing exactly what I said we should do. Leaking out after we take outside shots and pressuring the ball full court. We’ve also stopped running because we’re tired. Our players are having to pace themselves because Woodson won’t give them any rest.

Looks like we’re the ones with the tired legs. Bibby’s off and Woodson won’t put someone like Salim in to give us some OFF and possibly take the double team pressure off JJ. We need fresh legs to pressure Boston and mount a comeback. I give up.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Wow, whatever KG just did to Horford better be a flagrant after the BS flagrant from the 2nd quarter.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Oh please, Al Horford gets whacked in the face and Woody gets a T? Give me a f-cking break.

By MannyT

April 30, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

It’s about time Woody got a T. Stand up for your guys.

Only took 4 years.

BWAF

By SalimFan

April 30, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

B/C Marvin is scared…..

Anyway we still need a new head coach and Avery Johnson is free, Fratello is free, Tamjanovith, Carlisle, and D’Antoni Will Be available next week.

By kwooden1

April 30, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Celtics have baited the HAWKS into playing their game. No fastbreak points, few secondary break points. This isn’t a game that the HAWKS can win. But what I do see is a lot more confidence from the HAWKS and better execution at certain times. They have to run and they have to attack on Friday.

GO HAWKS!!!!

By O'brien

April 30, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Win or lose, Woody coaches the same way. And that’s why he needs to go. The Celtics made adjustments, and we didn’t. Plus it didnt help that Bibby and Marvin did not shoot well. Why would you not give Salim a chance? Maybe he can get hot. Or try JRich. Unlike Marivn, he has 3 pt range.

By richbrave

April 30, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

O.K. HAWKSWORLD. Pack Phillips and raise HELL-O!!!! Your last chance to shine in 2008. Everybody impressed with the team’s and the fans passion.

By Juice

April 30, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Post-game comments from Woodson: “Marvin will not be starting Game 6. We are going with Mario West and see what kind of energy he can give us. Game 6 is going to be huge for us so Salim and Acie will be playing some significant roles for us.”

And then…I woke up.

By Harry Hawk

April 30, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

I think everyone here expected a similar result to the first two games. The question is whether the Hawks can come back home and handle whatever knockout punch the Celtics try to come up with. The Celtics don’t want to go back home and have to play a seventh game. They’ll win it if it comes to that, but they need to rest.

By preston

April 30, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Ken- are you surprised at Woodson’s strategy? This is what the guy has been doing all year long……and some people actually think that he should be given another chance next year?…….Hell no…..I do not want to go thru another season of his BS……..the Hawks can be a very dangerous team with the pieces that we have…..yes, and even with the current bench group, but Woodson would rather play his starters to death and hope that they are on, rather than to play and develop his bench. And if you think about it, we have only won against the celtics b/c our starters were on….JJ…Bibby and Jsmith. There was nothing that Woodson did that won the games for us, and there is nothing that he will do, regardless of how bad his starters are playing, to actually win a game with his coaching.

By Macaroni Tony

April 30, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

This was some BS, the league knows how to get their favorite teams to the promise land. Just like that BS Heat/Mavericks finals. I hate the politics that the league have. Al got cheated for ROY just like the Hawks tonight. I know that we didn’t hustle enough, but if you’re not getting calls it will suck a lot out of you.

By O'brien

April 30, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Even though Marvin averaged 15 points a game in the regular season, I think most of his points came early in the game, or when the game was already decided. Chills makes big plays, Josh Smith makes big plays, we know about JJ. How many crunch time shots/blocks/rebounds has Marvin made this season?

By SalimFan

April 30, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

Horford winked at marvin after he got up and marvin started smiling. He was just acting just in case the call didn’t go his way. Just like that B I T C H KG, don’t do it AL!!

You’re better than that.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 30, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

The Celtics would have probably won today regardless, but if the Hawks had played with even half the energy they had in Games 3 and 4 they would have made it a lot harder on the C’s. I was gonna reserve judgment on whether the Hawks had turned a corner or not until they passed the test on the road; unfortunately they failed pretty badly. And the worst part about it is that Bibby, the guy who’s supposedly the veteran leader with playoff experience, is one of the two major weak links. I hate to be the pessimist today, but today’s performance makes me think the chances of even making it to a Game 7 are pretty slim.

By Tiger Woo

April 30, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

No worries - the Celtics held serve and won on their home court - gotta give them credit - they shot the ball well tonight and made the defensive adjustments.

Now the Hawks have to come home and take care of business - push it to game 7 - the question is - can they steal a game in Boston?

By cp

April 30, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

Whenever we are eliminated from the playoffs, there should be someone in the lockeroom serving Woodson his walking papers. The guy went right back to Mike Knapp tonight. NO Adjustments what so ever.. Why did Pachulia get so many minutes. The guy was getting burned on defense by slow azz Big Baby. He even had his shot blocked by Big Baby who probably has a 2 inch vertical.

Law clearly outplayed Bibby but for some reason Potato head refused to give him more minutes. Everyone knew JJ was going to get doubled and trippled. It was the perfect time to get some shooters on the floor to help JJ out but nope not Potato head. Childress had his shot blocked so much tonight I thought Josh Smith was playing for the Celtics. Tonight showed that the two wins the Hawks got was more of the players and some homecooking than coaching… I dont care who we bring in just get rid of Woodson.

By cp

April 30, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

O’brien I was just saying that about Marvin in an older blog. He scores about 6 early then the rest when the game has already been decided. I really want Marvin to do well but its painfully obvious that this kid just does not have it. Fratello said the other night that Marvin has to be more than a 6’9 jump shooter. Well that is all he has shown so far in his career. He is too athletic and long to be so bad as far as rebounding. He might have the worst balance I have ever seen out of a NBA player. I know Bibby helped get us to the playoffs but the guy is wayyyy too streaky. If his shot is off then he does nothing else for us. His defense is horrible, ball handling is iffy, and makes a lot of bad passes.

By JJ

April 30, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Man we need to hire mike fratello right now.

By JJ

April 30, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

hire mike fratello now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

By Matt

May 1, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

JJ and Horford excluded, all the Hawks’ weaknesses were on display tonight. Here’s a recap of the game in verse:

Marvin’s too timid and rushed his jumper to boot / Bibby ran in circles and forgot how to shoot / Smoove tried to play point guard with predictable result / (TOs and blown plays - apologies to Smoove’s cult)

Woodson benched JJ when he just had 2 fouls / at which point the team seemed to throw in their towels. Coach better be fired if we lose in Game Six / ‘cause I’m tired of watching the Hawks throw up bricks.

Since law school exams are kicking my rear / so long until Friday - please save me a beer.

By MJ3

May 1, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

Marvin clearly has the smoothness and athleticism, but the boy needs to hit the WEIGHT ROOM. The reason Smoove can take it to the rack with authority is that he’s RIPPED. Marvin can either work his a$$ off over the summer and become at least a respectable starter, or be consigned to mediocrity forever.

By O'brien

May 1, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

Good points cp. & what does marvin do that JRich can’t? Slightly better defense, and maybe a more consistent jump shot. But JRich has more range, and we needed to spread the floor. Marvin needs more motivation, and maybe one way is for Woody to bench him. But no matter how bad Marvin plays, he still gets a lot of minutes, while Richardson got none. Why did we even sign JRich anyway?

By O'brien

May 1, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

Last post for tonight. Even though Avery Johnson is only 23-24 in the playoffs, in 3 regular seasons his winning percentage is over 70%. Plus he played point guard and won a championship with the Spurs under Greg Popovich. I think he would help AC Law a lot, and he would be a good fit for the Hawks, in my opinion. Anyways, lets see what Woodson’s adjustments are for game 6.

By CP6

May 1, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

“Why did we even sign JRich anyway?”

Uhhhhh…because we have 12 active roster spots? You do realize that every team has at least 1-2 players who never make it in the game except for garbage time, right?

Besides, if we start anyone, it should be Mario. He provides what Marvin doesn’t - heart and intensity. And JJ aside, he’s our best perimeter defender.

By Najeh Davenpoop

May 1, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

Criticism of the Hawks in rhyme — I’m lovin’ it.

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this

Actually marvin is not a good peremter defender. He’s a better post defender.

By HB Ando

May 1, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

Look, tonight’s outcome was to be expected. Our home stand was not. As Hawks’ fans, we can all appreciate that our two wins “shocked” the NBA world. But there’s not much logic in micro-analyzing what went wrong tonight. The Celtics are simply the better team.

While there is still a game six to be played, and it will no doubt be a tremendously charged crowd for those in attendance (note: Ando DOES NOT have a ticket, and is actively seeking to attend), the odds are that we’ll be finished off, left to focus on where the team goes from here.

This series has helped clarify some issues that confront ownership, going into the summer. One has only to look up the five-game statistics, for both Rondo and Bibby, to objectify that Bibby IS NOT the long-term solution at point guard, especially given his $14 million salary, and the fact that his contract is expiring, which makes him more valuable as a cap-based commodity, rather than as our point guard.

Additionally, it’s more clear than ever that Woody is not the guy to take this team to the next level. The Hawks best moments have been when they play with reckless abandon, and their worst is when Woody attempts to insert woefully inadequate, half-court sets (see: third quarter, Monday night).

Finally, in the context of the unrealistic expectation that this team will be kept intact, at what likely projects to be a $68 million team salary, at least a couple of guys are going to have to move on. And given the likelihood that the Hawks will match any term sheet that Josh Smith signs, Marvin and Bibby look to be the most likely candidates to leave, as the ASG simply can’t afford to keep everyone, and both likely have more value, in trade, than in staying in Atlanta.

You can argue these opinions all you want. But the proof will be in the pudding.

Hopefully, the ASG will bring in a new GM, and new head coach, to optimize the changes that must take place, given the fiscal realities ownership will impose on the roster makeup.

With Avery Johnson now available, it would be nice to see the Hawks hire him, and have him develop Acie Law, as Law’s rookie year was simply a wash. Woody does not know how to develop a young point guard. Johnson does. If finances dictate that Bibby, and his $14 million, have to go, then there’s probably not another available coach who could quickly ascertain whether Law is capable of being the point guard of the future.

By Author

May 1, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

Anyone else here think that Ando reminds them of that loudmouthed Indians fan in the Major League movies that just seemed to relish talking about how much the Indians suck?

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 1:51 AM | Link to this

Actually….and I hate to say this but Ando is right.

Except for about Bibby. That guy is the truth we just don’t have the proper offensive plays to make him deadly but he is the reason that we are in the playoffs in the first place.

Getting Anderson if the off-season and a new HC will do the job for us.

I actually want BK to stay. He put this roster together it will be good for a long time. He knows khat he’s doing. He also doesn’t like the fact that some of his sighnings and draft picks (Salim, and J-Rich) aren’t getting any PT. Which is why he wants Woody outta here. That Anderson’s guy’s contract is expiring at just the right time as the Hawks are right on the edge of being a legit title contender.

Just think if some new GM comes in here and ships all of our young players off for overpaid nobodys? ( I.E Knicks) what then? BK effectivley got rid of all the sorry azz players with no more potential and little upside(al harrington, Antione Walker, Anthony Johnson….) He evaluates talent just fine if you ask me.

Niethr Horford, Marvin, Or Smith are complete players yet. Smith needs to work on his shot and Marvin needs to learn how to create off the dribble. It will come in time but For right now I think anderson is the missing piece. We would also be a lot better if our three point shooters actually got PT.

It took him a little longer but at least he realized we needed a new coach (Tried to fire woody three times already).

I really hope he comes back, but woody defenetly is not getting a new contract.

By BA

May 1, 2008 1:57 AM | Link to this

I think we’re stuck with Bibby. Who will want him after his performance this series? I don’t even think the Knicks would fall for that (especially now). I think the next year gives Law a chance to further develop. I think he’s definitely CAPABLE, just like Marvin is capable of having a good offseason and further improving. But the fact is, not every player on this team is going to have the hunger that Josh Smith has to get better. Not every player is going to develop the hustle of Al Horford. On the one hand, the Avery Johnson thing intrigues me, the whole A.C. Law angle. On the other hand, if this guy couldn’t win with a $100 million team, how can he make it out of the first round with us? If the Suns are dumb enough to fire their coach instead of Steve Kerr, I’d say bring that guy down here. Y’all want them to run, right? He’s the toothy king of running. At least he’d be the most entertaining choice.

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 2:19 AM | Link to this

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BIBBY!!!

WE JUST NEED A BETTER COACH WHO KNOWS HOW TO USE PLAYERS’ STRENGTHS.

By BA

May 1, 2008 2:23 AM | Link to this

Damn, SalimFan! Nice post. I have to contest one point, though- Knight brought Harrington here. Then let him walk. My theory is, they THOUGHT he would be a solid four, but they found out all he wants to do is lay back and shoot three pointers. I think it was Ando who said he was basically Marvin, for twice as much money. That’s why I think Knight might survive. He has made adjustments to the roster when things (Shellhead,Harrington) didn’t work out. I think Knight survives, therefor by default Woodson is gone. I agree that Knight hates the misuse of his roster, and I think Woodson does some of this stuff to get back at Knight (ie, not playing Salim, or Solo, etc.). But that’s a catch twenty-two, do we really want Knight picking the next coach?! I don’t want the roster blown up either, but they have to hit on the coach this time. I’ve watched the Hawks for twenty years, and this is by far the most energetic group I’ve seen. MORE energy than the Mookie/Smith/Nique years. But they could learn a lot from that group about composure.

By mykhalc

May 1, 2008 2:34 AM | Link to this

well between what little i heard from WOODSON at half-time, tellin’ the team it’s ok if we don’t get the win tonite but we gotta win here at some point???!!!?? WTF??? WHY WOULD YOU GIVE THE TEAM AN ‘OUT’ FOR NOT PULLIN’ OFF A WIN???? WHAT THE HELL IS THAT KINDA MOTIVATION CALLED??? i could not believe it when i heard it!!!

and then after what MBRADLEY attributed to WOODSON post-game in his column, i can’t believe what the team is gettin’ from WOODSON!! ‘we’re a ways away’???? i can see EXACTLY why the team gave the kinda effort it did!!! well, that and the substitutions he made!!!

i can ONLY HOPE that i’m wrong about him gettin’ an extension!!!

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 2:48 AM | Link to this

BA, I agree. BTW, sorry bout the all caps on the last post, had I known you were going to agree with me I wouldn’t have pulled he trigger so fast lol J/K.

Yes the hawks need the proper coach to teach them composure and keep their heads in the game. This team is Jeckyll and Hyde on the road compared to being at home.

Yeah BK made some poor judgemnt calls when he brought some players here but who would’ve known Walker and Harrington sucked so bad? Being on good teams with better players masked their flaws and weaknesses.

Yes at least Billy has the common sense to know when something isn’t working and he tries to fix it. You can’t say he hasn’t been trying to make the franchise better by acquiring those players. I was a huge Antione Walker fan until he came here and I realized that he sucks really bad.

But It looks like the mad scientist has finally found the right formula, and he deserves another shot (contract extension).

He got us Bibby and Joe Johnson. And Joe is underpaid when you compare him to Rashard Lewis (110 mil???). We HAD to pay big bucks to get SOMEONE with talent to come here. It’s Paid off. Now that were on the map, It will be a lot easier for us to attreact the attention of Free Agents.

If Anderson is catching our playoff series’ in Europe (esically games 3&4) He should be Amped to come and play here next season.

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 3:01 AM | Link to this

I really hope we hit the mark with the next coach.

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 3:14 AM | Link to this

See, Sekou knows. Bibby is the key to our offense.

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 3:14 AM | Link to this

Bibby is the key to our offense.

By mykhalc

May 1, 2008 3:28 AM | Link to this

the one thing that has been ULTRA CLEAR is how JJ is the ONLY polished player we have that can create his own shot!!! and it reminds me of what was said about the LAKERS once GASOL became a LAKER. to paraphrase…now KOBE, GASOL, and ODUM are all in their comfort zone. KOBE wants to be and is the 1st option, GASOL is most comfortable and best as 2nd option, and ODUM is most comfortable and best as the 3rd option.

and that’s clearly what’s missin’ here. JJ has shown in this series that he is comfortable as the 1st option but then that’s where $hit goes crazy. ‘cause right now, i’d say BIBBY is probably most comfortable as the 3rd option. and when i think about it, the SAC teams with BIBBY, WEBBER, DIVAC, PEJA, etc that was probably where he was too. the exception was that since he was surrounded by such good shooters he could come down and take the BIG shot ‘cause a LOT of attention had to be paid elsewhere!!!

MARVIN CLEARLY needs time to develop!! so as long as he’s a HAWK he needs to develop off the bench. he’s simply too green and not enough of a complimentary player to be in the startin’ 5!!!! and i think back to what LDREW said durin’ camp. he said MARVIN’s ultimate position might be at 2. and that makes me think that DREW saw what we are seein’ now…not enough desire to really wanna mix it up!!??!! he’s in his comfort zone doin’ one thing and one thing only right now…spot up jumpshot!!!

so besides the 5 that’s needed, add a seasoned 3 to that also who is an easy 2nd option!!! SMOOVE’s not there yet but i like what i’m seein!! and there’s no reason not to think that by next season he won’t be there. his handle has improved a lot this year!!! his total game is destined to only get better!!!

yep, BASG…you still gotta a lotta work to do!!!! but i’m still very proud of the YOUNG GUNS!!!!

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 3:41 AM | Link to this

Myc, I agree. I bet Anderson will become the 2nd option when he gets here. Which will take the pressure off of everyone and allow Smoove to roam around the paint and block shots with reckless abandon.

By Najeh Davenpoop

May 1, 2008 3:45 AM | Link to this

If, like Ando says, Bibby and Marvin are the players the Hawks lose next year and everyone else remains on board, I would be thrilled. If Billy can manage to get an ‘08 draft pick and a serviceable big guy for Bibby and Marvin I might be ready to forgive his past transgressions. Y’all know I got next to no love for Marvin’s game, and I pretty much think losing him is addition by subtraction. As bad as Bibby’s been this series though, he still is probably more reliable at this point over an 82-game season than Acie Law. But any dropoff that results from replacing Bibby with Law would probably be offset by the continuing development of Horford and J-Smoove. We are all witnessing what an inexperienced 2nd-year point guard is doing when surrounded by better, more experienced players with the Celtics — there’s no reason why Law wouldn’t benefit similarly (obviously not to the same extent) next year.

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 3:57 AM | Link to this

Salim would be perfect fit in this series. Rondo doesn’t like to shoot the ball and Salim isn’t the quickest at getting back to his man after doubling down in the post. But since Rondo’s a reluctant shooter, he wouldn’t have to worry about that.

Then all he has to do is Torch Rondo on the other end with the 3 Ball. Unlike Bibby, Salim’s Quick trigger won’t be affected by Rondo’s pressure (I’d Bet money salim could connect facing a double-team also). Salims gotten his shot off against much bigger and better defenders. Salim will eat him alive……Too bad we’ll never know (or see it).

By mykhalc

May 1, 2008 3:58 AM | Link to this

SalimFan, that really would be the best of all worlds if ANDERSEN is the BIG that’s needed and a true 2nd option!!! ‘cause then you let SMOOVE continue to develop, especially if he’s at the 3 next season and AL continues on his monstrous path while seein’ more touches at the 4!!! all that will make BIBBY’s job easier and almost reflect the way he played in his SAC years!!!

By mykhalc

May 1, 2008 4:08 AM | Link to this

Najeh, personally i’m not ready to give BIBBY up!!! but that’s just me. besides all that i just posted i think BIBBY’s game is sufferin’ from WOODSON’s scheme and low bball IQ on the team. other than JJ and BIBBY, and sometimes CHILS the smart bball plays off the ball are just NOT bein’ made!!!!

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 4:39 AM | Link to this

Ladies and Gentelmen I have DAVID ANDERSEN YOUTUBE FOOTAGE!!!!!.

There’s just one problem. He’s too soft in the paint and he plays the FORWARD spot on his team(Overseas big men are always soft when they come to the NBA). I don’t think he can bang with the big boys(He needs to get Bigger). And don’t give me that development crap because he’s 28.

To his credit he averages 20ppg on the best team in Europe so I could be wrong.

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 4:56 AM | Link to this

Looks like If he plays for us. Al will still operate as the center. Offensively Andersen is too good/soft to be our center. Al is a banger he won’t mind. Kinda like detroit used to be. Undersized center(Ben Wallace) Big time forward (Rasheed). Horford really isn’t undersized compared to the 6’7 Ben Wallace.

He’ll fit in well in our transition offense. Also our Half court offense will be a lot smoother B/C he can isolate his man and shoot the turnaround fadeaway on the lw block or the Elbows.

Andersen might just look soft but actually be a BEAST. EX: Pau Gasol- looks flimsy and soft but he’s a man in the paint. Playing the center positon for Bynum right now too.

By ray

May 1, 2008 5:29 AM | Link to this

A bits/pieces of food for thought:

1)Bibby is a clear upgrade over the past four years of point guard position. But one only has to look at how Rajon Rondo (a guy who wasn’t a guaranteed starter last year) has used and abused him….in his first playoff series. Rondo has done what his team has asked of him. Has Bibby? You cannot say that Bibby is the reason for our being in the playoffs, and talk about all of his playoff experience….and ignore the fact that he has been thoroughly outplayed by a 2nd year pg with NO playoff experience whatsoever. As Ando has said, merely compare the playoff stats. You cannot have it both ways. The offense starts with and is influenced supremely by the point guard. We won two playoff games where he did fairly well. We lost three where he did horribly. It’s obvious.

2)Bibby’s biggest attraction to other teams is his expiring contract. Don’t be fooled into thinking that this didn’t cross the mind of Knight and the ASG as well. After all, it’s part of what made him such a good acquisition. 14.5 million is a LOT to come off of the books at the end of next year. And what a perfect time to have it come off. Why? Because the 2009 free agent class is LOADED. Take a look. This summer’s free agent class probably has no names that are much bigger than Josh Smith. Next year’s however…Also, why else would Sacramento be willing to give up a guy who was more or less the face of their franchise? Easy: they’ve got a new face-Bino Udrih….and he makes a lot less…and produces more. Bibby’s good, and he’s a vet. But he’s not anybody’s future. He’s a stand-in before the young stud takes over. That’s how other teams will view him.

3)I’m not going to get into the Billy Knight subject too deeply. It’s easy for this to go one way or the other. But think about it like this: A team’s GM is the stock-broker, the investor. He is given the keys to the bank vault, to the money. In effect, the GM is investing the owner’s money (or in our case, owners’). That is how it should be looked at. His job extension or expiration is based on how well he invested the money. And as I said, enough has been said about this. I know where my opinion lies. One need only look closely at the ENTIRE body of work.

4)Avery Johnson is another clear-cut case of a coach being scape-goated for the incredible mistakes made by the GM and the Owner. Look at Johnson’s resume. He won more games faster than almost any coach in Dallas’ or other teams’ history. His record as a coach (and a rookie one at that) is a career 192-70. How is that a failure? Furthermore, he had a damn good young pg and a good solid center taken from his squad, to be replaced by a talented but over-the-hill former all-star pg that couldn’t keep them even competitive in the first round (those kinds of point guards seem to be in abundance lately) Now…compare his body of work to Woodson’s. There is no comparison. I don’t care what you say. Avery would do a hell of job here. A hell of a job. It doesn’t matter that he was working with a $100 million dollar roster. His GM and Owner screwed that pooch til it yelped.

5)Told you Woodson was the same guy he was all season (all four seasons). Some of us knew this. Some of us drank in the intoxicating nectar of temporary euphoria. And now it tastes bitter. Game 6 will be a mutha. We have a chance. But the fact remains: Boston is better than us and Doc Rivers will always wake up quicker than Mike Woodson. Count on it.

6)The future’s right around the corner. The ASG will prove or disprove themselves as there is no better opportunity to do so. No time since their inception (and subsequent hiring of Billy and Woody) is more pivotal than now. Sink or swim, guys. Here comes the cold water…

By Najeh Davenpoop

May 1, 2008 5:34 AM | Link to this

Mykhalc, if the ASG had unlimited amounts of money I’d say keep Bibby too and wait until next season starts to see if Law is ready to take over the starting role. I was posting under the assumption that they would have to get rid of some people to offset having to pay one or both Joshes a bunch of money. If that had to happen I’d rather see Bibby go, and that has more to do with his contract and Acie waiting in the wings than it does with his game.

By Najeh Davenpoop

May 1, 2008 5:42 AM | Link to this

Couldn’t agree with you more about Avery Johnson, Ray. I’ll even take it a (probably controversial) step further — that team is not gonna be a legit title contender until Mark Cuban squashes his man-love for Dirk Nowitzki and realizes that a team whose best player is a soft 7-foot jump shooter who plays no defense is not gonna win a title in this league. Trading for Kidd (damn he looked washed up in that series) was idiotic as we all know now. But even before that was that team really gonna contend with the other powers in the West? Probably not. 2005 was an aberration if you ask me. That team was never really built to win in the postseason. I’m not saying they should get rid of Dirk, but he should be Option #1A, not Option #1. Avery ain’t a perfect coach but he’s damn sure better than what we got now. You don’t put up .730 winning percentages by accident. I wouldn’t mind him or D’Antoni — both are flawed but both would instantly improve the Hawks’ record by at least 8-10 games.

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 5:43 AM | Link to this

Ray, I disagree about Bibby. LeBron wanted this guy to be their star PG. We go as bibby goes. That shows his effect on the team. If this were Lue or Avery Johnson I guess that meas we would’ve takned a long time ago. Honestly ask yourslef, Woul AJ or lue have ran the floor like that in game 3 and gotten smoove those Lobs. When Acie came in the game yesterday he wasn’t facing a double but he STILL cotinuously pulled the ball out instead of running in transition. Also Cassell Torched him from the peremeter, and he’s our best defensive PG.

Everything else I agree wih though.

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 5:49 AM | Link to this

We can go over the cap to sign roster players. Hopefully the ASG won’t be stingy with tha cash.

By ray

May 1, 2008 7:26 AM | Link to this

Najeh, I don’t see where that’s even controversial. You’re dead on point, it’s just that some people won’t like to hear it. Dirk is a superstar (on offense). But Dallas doesn’t play “D” like they should and for some reason Dirk doesn’t have the running mate he needs. I feel they were better off with Harris and Diop. Dampier is a dog (doesn’t give a rat’s a$$ about anything), and Diop would’ve been better in the long run. Howard is a great talent. But it didn’t come together and as we saw (and some of us suspected), Kidd was nowhere near the kind of player he used to be…and therefore the panicky gamble was a bad one. Very bad. I’d love to have Avery here.

SalimFan,

Lebron wanted a pg who could dish the ball, but also hit the open shot (since Lebron draws 3 or 4 defenders on each drive to the basket). He wasn’t looking for Bibby to be their “star” pg. And notice that Cleveland didn’t bite. I believe that I just said that as Bibby goes, we go, so I don’t know what you’re arguing about there. As I said, when Bibby played decently we won. When he hasn’t we’ve lost….badly. This playoff series couldn’t define that more.

Much as I like Bibby, he is getting outperformed by Rondo. Significantly so. Just pull up the stats on both players. Bibby: 10.6 points, 2.4 rebounds, 2.6 assists, .6 steals, and .33% from the field, including 35% from 3-point land. Meanwhile, Rondo: 12.6 points, 4.2 rebounds, 8.0 assists, 2.2 steals, and here’s the real kicker- .8 turnovers per game. All of that on 47% field goal shooting, including 50% from 3-point range. It’s not even close. Boston is doing well because Rondo is taking care of the ball, shooting well (and smartly), and playing great defense. We are doing badly because for the most part, Bibby is not taking care of the ball well, is only occasionally playing adequate defense, and isn’t shooting worth a DAMN.

I’ll tell you how bad it is. Josh Smith (whom so many people love to harp on about turnovers) has an assit-to-turnover ratio in these playoff games that is 1.067 to 1. He is averaging 3.2 assists to 3.0 turnovers. Bibby’s assist-to-turnover ratio is 1.083 to 1. He is averaging (as stated above) 2.6 assists to 2.4 turnovers. Explain to me why a playoff-battle tested point guard is not only averaging less assists (although not much less)than his inexperienced, reportedly dumb sf/pf…but also has a damn near identical assist-to-turnover ratio as that same player (who by the way has never been in an NBA playoff game prior to this series)?

Furthermore, ask yourself do you really want to stick with this guy and pay him $14.5 million next season? How about after that…want to sign him to that kind of contract? Yeah, you couldn’t have said it more clearly: as this guy goes, so do we. And yet, there’s no comparison between him and AJ or TLue. But they don’t cost as much either, now do they? Consider that Rondo doesn’t make 10% of what Bibby does. This is not our pg of the future, it is a guy who can make us better, but not good enough. The playoffs alone are proving that.

As for Acie Law, he’s still doing what Woodson tells him to do. Law is capable of so much more. Woodson tells him what to do. Conversely, Woodson let’s Bibby do as he pleases. See the problem there? Woodson is sending mixed messages at best. We cannot fault Acie for anything he does, largely because of Woodson’s inept interference. Not only that, but Acie can never get into a rhythm. He doesn’t get nearly enough minutes, so he’s never really “ready” when he does get on the floor.

By SalimFan

May 1, 2008 7:42 AM | Link to this

Hmmm yeah much like salim. I see your point. But the celts are useing idiculous double-teams whenver he or JJ touches the ball. Not to menion that the Big 3 Make Rondo look a lot better.

And they are doing this ON POURPOSE to get us out of sync. The don’t pressure Acie like that or even salim when he had his game 1 stint. What is he to do?

I’m gonna find a Hornets-Celtics tape from this season and see how CP3 handled it. I know the first meeting the Hornets won and the Second the C’s blew them out.

By Willie Coyote

May 1, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

Bibby and the rest of the team would look a lot better on the offensive side if Marvin would just show the f*ck up.

Right now, they are playing 5-on-4 on the offensive end and that is why they can’t get any open looks that aren’t 3 feet behind the 3-pt line.

By SlickWatts

May 5, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Its too bad that the Hawks didnt take game 7 seriously enough because it ruined their entire season and wasted 7 months of basketball. THE HAWKS SHOULD HAVE ADVANCED TO THE NEXT ROUND TO PLAY THE CAVALIERS. THE HAWKS ARE BETTER ATHLETICALLY THAN THE CELTICS BUT THEY COULDNT PROVE IT IN GAME 7. So the Hawks wasted their entire season once again for the 10th consecutive campaign and have nothing at the end to show for it but a crude, brutal play by Marvin (the enforcer) Williams. Where was Josh Smith in this ball game. He looked like he was completely lost out there. Smith looked as though he was playing in the dark and couldnt find the basketball. When he found it, he would turn it over to the Celtics. Mike Bibby was a no-show and the team looked completely pathetic on Bostons home floor. I dont know if I should be proud of their season or embarrased by their total non-effort in game 7. It appeared to me as I was watching the first two quarters that Atlanta had thrown in the white flag from the opening tipoff. By halftime I had already changed the channel because I couldnt watch the Hawks get pummeled any longer. It wasnt how bad they were getting beaten by the Celtics its that the HAWKS GAVE NO EFFORT WHATSOVER. When Marvin Williams exeucted his barberic play I had seen enough and it was time to call it quits. Marvin, you are a complete moron.

By BibbySupporter

May 6, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

I dont care what anyone says about Mike Bibby. Bibby has proven to me that he is one of the greatest point guards in NBA history. The Atlanta Hawks are extremely LUCKY to have him. It is true that Bibby had a very poor playoffs and he couldnt find his shot and therefore couldnt throw it in the ocean, but you can rest assured that Bibby is worth every penny the Hawks are paying him. Simply put, if Bibby was not acquired during the season the Hawks most certainly would have missed the playoffs and the world wouldnt have gotten to see the Hawks pushing the Celtics to the brink of elimination. That in itself shows you the value of Mike Bibby. Bibbys teams ALWAYS make the playoffs because Mike Bibby is a winner. The Celtics will dispose of the remainder of the eastern conference opponents and they will represent the conference in the NBA finals. No one else other than the Hawks will push the Celtics to a 7th game. The Celtics will win the NBA championship this year. Mike Bibby will lead the Hawks back into the playoffs next season.

By MonaLisa

May 6, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Starvin Marvins great closeline play on his friend should nominate him for “bully of the week”. Actually, when Marvin “THE ERASER” Williams wiped out his friend, he tried his best not to hurt him although he couldnt stop his buddy from falling to the canvas. Marvin was justifiably kicked out of the game but should in fact be consequently kicked out of the league for such distateful play.