Hawks

By Ryder

April 22, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Real smart talking smack about anyone in the playoffs Bibby, because that worked out sooooooooooo well for the Wizards hasn’t it?

Better be ready to bring your A+ game tomorrow.

By Sean C

April 22, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

i just posted this at the end of the last blog, but what are your thoughts on starting chill over marvin? i just think the spark and hustle he provides is something we need from the opening tip. plus, we need guys to drive to the hoop more, and less jumpers. dont get me wrong, marvin has a pretty sweet jumper, but if its not falling, hes kinda just taking up space on the court.

By J. Bivens

April 22, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

….and that’s why I like Bibby. Man, I hope we can keep him around for a while.

By Nick

April 22, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Wait … that’s a comment coming out of the mouth of a “veteran with playoff experience?”

By James

April 22, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

I hope this fires our team up.

Screw Boston.

Will never live up to New York.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

By Dan

April 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

The Celtics are the ‘97 Florida Marlins of the NBA. They just went out and bought a bunch of good players. They have not developed anything. I am sick of hearing how “improved” they are. They aren’t improved at all! They just brought in better players. Last year’s guys still suck.

Bibby can say what he wants, as long as he performs. I like him a lot, but he played terrible on Sunday.

Sean C, I say leave Chills alone. He has been great coming off the bench. Why change that now? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, right? Anyway, there are times when Marvin is hot. Maybe, Wednesday will be one of those times? I would rather see if Marvin is hot and keep feeding him if he is. If not, then Chills gets all the minutes.

By ray

April 22, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Nice posts by MannyT and SalimFan towards the end of last blog.

richbrave, thanks for your support. Trust me, any cop appreciates back-up.

By Sean C

April 22, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Dan I know chills has been great coming off the bench thats why i think starting him would be a good idea. Youre not going to lose anything from him by starting him from the get-go. Id rather have marvin coming off the bench, and testing how hot his shot is going to be from there. We need to come out with a bang. Just my thoughts really.

By richbrave

April 22, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

ray:

In spades my man, in spades!!

By cp

April 22, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

BA I saw your last post on the other blog. You know more often than not I do agree with what you say but I just cant when it comes to Marvin. He might get better one day but I im willing to bet there will be another 5 to 6 small fowards who will improve quicker than him or just flat out be better. It’s his third year and the cat is still having the same problems from his rookie year. I used to think that if he was more agressive that he would be better but not anymore. If his jumper is not falling then he is pretty much invisible on the court. He cant create his own shot, has poor handles, and has trouble finishing at the rim. I dont think I have ever seen a player drive to the basket with his head down as much as Marvin. He goes to the hole hoping for a foul rather than trying to finish and get a foul. I was thinking that we should start Childress over him but I think that leaving Childress on the bench is probably better. JJ is going to get double teamed a lot and the Boston defenders close in real fast. Childress acn hit jumpers but only if he is open. He struggles with a man on him and he struggles with trying to create his own shot. I say start Richardson and bring Marvin off the bench with Childress. It makes our bench stronger and it gives the starting lineup another guy who can knock down the 3 pointer….If guys double and triple JJ then it should give Richardson plenty of chances to knock down some shots….It might not work but at this point why not because this team has nothing to lose in my opinion….I would love to see Law get some playing time…..The guy can get in the paint whenever he wants and is a better passer than most think….The problem is a lot of our guys seem to have terrible hands….Let Law penetrate and kick the ball out to our shooters or dump it off to guys like Horford and Smith….As far as Bibby talking trash, does not really mean much in my opinion….I think the Celtics are so focused that they dont need any extra motivation….Thier fans are going to be loud and talk crap regardless….We have to make this series competitive…..Mr. Potato head has to change things up and say F it and show us he can actually make adjustments.

By A Thinking Fan

April 22, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

The NBA playoffs are about Budget & Vets! Boston has both�

ASG is broke & a broken Spirit!!!

Woody & Billy are their hires; what big name or good coach is going to come here on the cheap? It ain�t about Woody or Billy; it�s about CASH!

By Astro Joe

April 22, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Sounds to me as if Bibby is trying to get himself “fired up”. Oh well, I’m sure we’ll beat the heck outta this horse before they lace them up in another 31 hours.

That’s a staggering stat. 32 possessions when the Hawks were lost and trying to make crap up. I can’t help but wonder how much of that was Bibby and how much was Boston knowing which one of our 2 half-court plays we were planning to run?

By cp

April 22, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

When I said there will be another 5 or 6 small fowards better than Marvin I was talking about guys who were drafted the same year, the next year and so on. You get what im saying…. We kept hearing about he is this once in a 10 year type player or something to that effect but its guys like Granger who was taken in the same draft who is better, I think Travis Outlaw will be better….Rudy Gay is better.. I would not be too upset if we moved Marvin for some other pieces….I just dont think his skills are ever going to be what the so called experts said they would be….No more Childress at pg and sitting players almost a whole half if they pick up two fouls

By Ryder

April 22, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

First of all, to all those talking about sitting Marvin on the bench, GIVE IT A REST! It’s not happening, and cp quit crying about the Hawks not having Outlaw/Gay/Granger or whomever. Crying over spilled milk won’t make this situation better.

Astro Joe, good stats to bring up. It’s disheartening when you see how messed up Atlanta becomes when they operate in the half court.

They aren’t disciplined enough to run more than 2 plays overall in that set, and Boston’s defense prevents Atlanta from attacking the rim.

Bibby has to be truly aggressive from the onset if Atlanta looks to get out to an early start.

Defensively Atlanta must rely more on the zone and put a hand in someone’s face when shooting the 3. Be quicker to the ball on the boards to compensate for the lack of height.

By cp

April 22, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Im not crying. This is a blog where we post our opinions. My opinion is that Marvin should come off the bench. My opinion is that other players have looked better than Marvin….I can sit here and be a homer and act as if this guy is going to be great but im not…I just pointed out how people were saying by his third year he is going to be this and that and its not happened. I was only saying how guys who are just as young and came from the same draft have developed a lot better. If you dont agree with what im saying fine but im not crying im just expressing my opinion. Whether you like it or not we have we will soon have to make a decision on who to keep and who to trade. But hey ill stop expressing my opinions because it wont make the situation better… I guess there is no need for a blog then since all we do is talk about the same stuff and nothing we say will make the situation better.

By terrell barron

April 22, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

PLAY ACIE, PLAY ACIE, PLAY ACIE, PLAY ACIE, PLAY ACIE, PLAY ACIE, PLAY ACIE, PLAY ACIE, PLAY ACIE, PLAY ACIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

By HB Ando

April 22, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Bibby’s comments suggest he confused lighting the bong rather than the fire. After the embarrassing performance he put up, against Rondo (predicted, pre-game, by yours truly), he might want to sneak into the building and try lulling the Celtics to sleep. Posting bulletin board material against a Kevin Garnett team is about as stupid a move as a player can make. I didn’t recall Bibby having a reputation for being a knot-head, before he came to Atlanta.

So maybe there’s just something about working for this organization that sucks the brain cells out of it’s employees (though I can’t discount that Billy arrived here with a negative cell count, from the very beginning).

I see that none of the folks who choose to hold Woody as most accountable for our limitations, also chose not to take on my Doc Rivers analogy. 42-win improvement, from last year to this. And Doc was taking way more heat, with constant calls for his head last season, than Woody is getting here. Woody is a flawed coach, but Doc Rivers is all the proof you need that the GM has to put the right roster together.

CP, I used Rudy Gay as my prime example, at scoffing at Marvin’s 1 in ten years’ talent projection, before Marvin’s rookie year actually started. Marvin was overrated from the get go. All this talk about giving him time to develop. Big men take time to develop. PG’s usually take time to learn the nuances of running the point in the NBA. Josh Smith didn’t go to college, and was drafted 17th. Why hasn’t it taken him “time” to develop? It’s about time for folks to accept that Marvin isn’t going to become an all-star. There’s nothing observable, about his floor game, that suggests he’s going to emerge as a dominant player. He’s a solid stand-up shooter, and has some ability to go to the basket. But he’s a sub-par defender and rebounder, and he shows no signs of becoming a compelling assist man.

So what is it that anyone sees, in his game, that projects to an emerging all-star? When we drafted him, I said on this very blog, that his maximum potential upside appeared to be what we were getting, at that time, from Al Harrington. And since we already had a 25-year old Harrington, and no point guard, it just never made sense to bring in Marvin. As it turns out, so far, Marvin has not become as good as Harrington. He doesn’t have his range, and he isn’t even close to the low-post scorer that Harrington was when he was here. And given that Harrington’s status, on his team and comparatively, around the league, is pretty much an average starting swing man, that means Marvin’s upside is looking more and more like average, at best, and talk about him becoming great just seems like stubborn, wishful thinking.

Bill Simmons said the Williams-instead-of-Paul discussion is so sickeningly painful, that he can’t look an Atlanta Hawks’ fan in the eye if the subject comes up.

With Paul a likely runner-up to Kobe for MVP, and a rapidly emerging future Hall-of-Famer, we’re now veering into Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan territory, as far as historic draft blunders.

Of course this is Atlanta, the same city that traded Brett Favre away.

If it weren’t for the Braves, this city would have a stranglehold on worst professional sports town in the country.

3 more blowout losses to the Celtics, and then we can start to pick apart an upcoming summer of upheaval for the draft-pickless Hawks. Time to clean house.

By Jt

April 22, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Bibby has the GAME to back up his talk. Now he better go out and do it.

By Volman

April 22, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Hey everyone,

Coming up to finals week…boy am I glad to be done with school for the next couple of months!

I can tell you one thing:

I am happy to see Bibby talking about the Boston fans. It’s true. There were NO FANS in the past couple of years but all of a sudden everyone is a Boston fan. I have friends that are from Boston and they are all about the Red Sox and the Patriots. I have NEVER heard them say a WORD about the Celtics, of course, until this year. They are going to the Hawks game to see “their team”. Yeah, right. Your team. The Celtics do have fair weather fans, but who wouldn’t show up and cheer for a team that has the best record in the NBA?

I could be p** about that situation and argue about it forever, but there’s no point.

I was SO PUMPED for the city of Atlanta to have the Hawks back in the playoffs. Wasn’t everybody else? Wasn’t it REFRESHING to see OUR HAWKS on TNT? It was so cool to see them on there instead of FSN or Sports South. I was so proud to see them get some recognition. When Josh Smith made that block and went coast to coast, I thought he was going to have a good game that got him some recognition. He ended up being a no show, and he DID LOOK SCARED out there. The environment there was louder/better than any environment I’ve seen in ANY playoff games so far…I don’t think anyone can say that’s not true.

I’d like to see Acie get in there and see how his quickness will match up with Rondo. Guys, Rondo is going to get his shots. He’s got three all stars around him,and people are going to leave him open for shots. The BIG 3 are making him look great, face it. He isn’t necessarily out playing Bibby, but he’s played well.

Bibby and Smoove will show up for this next game, I hope. I also hope that Joe doesn’t try to get everyone when he’s getting triple teamed. He has to pass it out to someone and SOMEBODY needs to make a jump shot. SOMEBODY!

I’m proud for this team to make it ot the playoffs, and I am curious to see who the Hawks are going to trade for during the offseason to make this team better.

It’s time for the Hawks to make some moves this offseason, improve into the playoffs NEXT season, and then sign a BIG TIME free agent in next year’s free agent class to try to get over the top and become a contender.

Go get ‘em Hawks….SHOW SOME FIRE!

By Matt

April 22, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

LMAO of at Dan saying the Celtics are buying a championship. You got it completely wrong buddy. How about two shrewd trades by Danny Ainge basically trading away 80% of the Celtics roster for two all stars then making some key free agent signings in Posey, House, Cassell, and PJ Brown. Couple this with the development of Rondo, Perkins, and Powe (all players Ainge drafted) I would call this masterful work by a genius GM. That of course is something an Atlanta Hawks fan would know nothing about.

Bibby’s washed up and a moron. Not that it matters what he says. Boston is going to sweep Atlanta out of the playoffs regardless of what kind of fire he’s tring to light.

By Mainevent

April 22, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Mini-me better keep his yap shut. Fair weather or not, the hawks WISH they had the GM to make the trades that we did ANYTIME! Face it. He like everyone who says we “bought” our team can say what they wish. Of course we did! The Hawks front office “brought” mini-me too! If the Hawks had the assests to get a KG you think they wouldn’t have? Make sense mini dude! Talking about fans, the hawks fans dont support them regardless, winners or loser which its been mostly losers. I have been here 7 years and the professional teams fans are as fair weathered as you can get. Now College and high school is a very different story. You will support them before you support your pro teams! I say Mini-me needs to worry about Rajon instead of worrying about the fans. By the way, the Hawks good fortune this year (if thats what you wanna call it) is NOT because of this dude at all, it is because you got a stud in the middle….FINALLY. He is no better than Tyronn Lue was for you guys so keep thinking he is the reason you are here. IF thats the case he will be the reason the Hawks will disappear after 4 games as well.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 22, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

The Celtics would only be the ‘97 Marlins if they traded Allen, Pierce, and KG for 50 cents on the dollar after the season. Somehow I doubt that’s gonna happen.

By Mainevent

April 22, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Amen Matt - The Sqwaks are a JOKE of an NBA team, and Mini-Me is the biggest joke of them all. Maybe if the Sqwaks had someone on their team of value, they would have been able to offer a trade for the DPOY(defensive player of the year for you Hawks fans)and the most intense player in the NBA. MAYBE….but nope, sorry, stick with the bunch of losers you have now with your below 500 record making the playoffs. Pathetic and a Joke and YET this clown feels he has the right to talk? I can walk into Phillips Arena on ANY GAME DAY and get tickets for THAT NIGHTS GAMES!! Why, because the fans are out supporting the high school games thats why. High schools and College games rule out here. The Hawks are an after thought and has been since the Omni!

By Volman

April 22, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

I applaud all of you “basketball gurus” who call the Celtics sweeping Atlanta. You’re really smart. That was a hard one.

Matt, “LMAO” at you.

Danny Ainge traded away their entire roster for 2 or 3 years of the big three. There are no guarantees in those years for a championship. I don’t even see them winning it.

Now what makes me sick is someone like James Posey. He jumps around from contender to contender so that he has a chance at a title. I don’t see how Ainge had ANYTHING to do with that. I can assure you he didn’t “lure away” Posey, House, Cassel, or Brown. Those guys want to win a championship so they will go for cheap to the Celtics.

There should be something that says you can’t do that. I think it’s kind of unfair if you ask me.

But what do I know?

By honest_abe

April 22, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

damn ray a little disagreement and now i’m a clown? heh.. cold bro. cold.

after the game one performance bibby turned in, maybe he should be working out the kinks in his shot rather than firing up the boston fan base.

ando: clean house? really? as bad as the state of this franchise is i really don’t think it’s in need of a complete overhaul. maybe the ownership yes. but the roster imo only needs some tweaking. add a new coach and the team naturally progresses into the upper tier of the eastern conference. (by upper i mean top 6 teams)

it would be nice if woody had played around with some different lineups during the regular season. i’m with most of you i’d like to see marv start on the bench. but i realize its probably a little too late for experimenting and woody’s too stubborn for change anyhow. reference the starting of royal ivey for two minutes before going to the bench. what the hell was the point of that anyways?

By Volman

April 22, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Mainevent, you’re a dolt.

This blog will welcome you “Hawk Haters” and “Celtic homers”…That’s fine. I don’t mind. BUT, don’t you ever talk down to any of us. You’re not on a different level because you’re a “fan” of the Celtics now.

I don’t know how Garnett is so overwhelming better at defense all of a sudden. Defense is a TEAM concept. I see Garnett pretty much has around the same numbers (1 bpg and 10 rpg) as our 21 year old (that’s Al Horford for “you Celtics fans”).

If you want to talk about bad fans, go look at the Braves games. They NEVER sell out and they won the National League East for 14 years in a row. Atlanta fans usually do not turn out for many games.. It’s just a fact.

Another thing, I would say you should NEVER call any of the players on the Hawks team LOSERS. You first off, don’t have the right to say that. If you want to get on the team for not playing as “intense” as Mr. Big Kevin Garnett (who still hasn’t won the BIG GAME YET in all of those years and was insignificant for the past 3 years until getting traded) then do that. The problem with this young team is that they are not coached well. Don’t call this team a bunch of losers. You obviously don’t know a thing about basketball. The Hawks are honestly trying to complete a triathalon with two cement blocks tied to their ankles since being coached by Woodson. This is the YOUNGEST team in the playoffs, and have never experienced anything like it. With a good coach I can see this team reaching their potential. With some more pieces, I can see them contending in the Least.

Now you try doing that, dolt. I bet you won’t win.

By FlashMarker

April 22, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Remember the great quote from Al Michaels, “Do you believe in miracles?” Of course, he was referring to the Hawks winning the NBA title this season. All I can tell you is that if the New York Giants are champions of the NFL, I see no reason on earth why the Atlanta Hawks cant be champions of the NBA. So as it turned out, beating the Celtics will just be a tuneup for taking on a western conference opponent in the NBA finals, whether it is the Spurs, Lakers, Jazz, Nuggets, Rockets, Mavericks, Suns or Hornets. THE HAWKS ARE BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.

By BA

April 22, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Boston fans, as clearly demonstrated by their posts here, are at best ill-informed dirtbags. The one guy says “we didn’t buy a championship” and then procedes to list the free agents they brought in. Boston/Chicago/New York/Philly, they’re all the same. These people, by and large, have proven time and again that they have zero class. Be proud of your team, your owner isn’t cheap like our fourteen owners. But don’t act like Boston has done anything shrewd, they tried to buy a championship. And for the record, they haven’t won a damn thing yet.

By BA

April 22, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

CP, I like Richardson a lot. But I see him as a backup two guard. I just don’t think he’s ready to start. He and A.C. should be our back up guards, not Chills and Salim.

By Harry Hawk

April 22, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Well, it’s not like the Hawks only passed on Chris Paul. They also passed on Deron Williams, who is not as flashy as Paul, but I’d venture to say that Deron nearly as good as Paul. Not only that, they passed on Ray Felton. Felton can’t shoot, but he’s averaged 14 ppg and a little over 7 apg the last two seasons. The Hawks completely screwed that draft pick up, but I don’t need Bill Simmons to avert his eyes. After all, there’s not a m******* thing I can do about it.

(Oh, and as for the Doc Rivers thing…yeah, Doc is not a very good coach. He’s basically managing the minutes of his starters. That’s it. He’ll be exposed at some point during these playoffs, just not in this series. I’m sure The Sports Guy has prepared himself for it.)

The fact is that we all know (or futilely attempt to deny) that ownership is crap, the front office is crap, the coaching is crap, and the roster, while talented, is young and poorly constructed. If Billy Knight can add two solid veteran big men (one starter, one bench guy) and a veteran shooting guard who can consistently knock down shots, this should be a solid playoff team. It won’t be a championship team, but I could live with a return of the days when I b*** about Smitty, Mookie, and Cookie Monster getting knocked out in the second round. Those days look pretty good right now. In fact, that’s probably the best the Hawks can do with ASG at the helm.

(I have to say that I never thought I’d long for the days of “Smitty ISO.” Have the Hawks EVER run plays since Fratello coached here? I think Bob Weiss might have tried to.)

By GoldenRetriever

April 22, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

The Hawks are a lot more capable and possess a great deal more swagger since the acqusition of the great Mike Bibby. When Bibby was acquired in midseason, Bibby transformed the Hawks into a team that was about to miss the playoffs for the 10th consecutive season to a team that now has a real good chance of winning the NBA championship. Bibby makes the difference between the Hawks being a mediocre team without him to the Hawks being a title contender with his excellent leadership on the floor. The Hawks are now a GREAT TEAM since they have acquired Mike Bibby. The Bibby deal by Billy Knight was the deal that literally saved Billy Knights job. Billy Knight probably would have been bagging groceries at Kroger had he not pulled the trigger on the Bibby acquisition.

By Mainevent

April 22, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

First of all Volman explain to me what is a dolt? Is that a new word here in Atlanta? Secondly, NOW doesnt apply to how long I’ve been a Celtic fan. Try 32 years….GOOD AND BAD pal, so know what you are talking about before YOU speak. You pretty much stated the same things I’ve said which is funny. You just said it differently..LOL! The hawks are trying…yes, but come on now. Look at their record YET they made the playoffs. As far as me not knowing about basketball…..yeah, Ok. I wont even comment on that one. FYI, I coach AAU basketball - (if you even know what the letters stand for)and have been a fan of the game since I was 7 yrs old….lotta years fella. Fact is I can say whatever the heck I choose to say and feel however the heck I choose to feel. YOU are not my authority. If I want to call the hawks LOSERS, then I will call them LOSERS!!! Period. My team was called a whole lot more for MANY YEARS and I took it. It is what it is. I could see if I was calling you out of YOUR name or someone in your family, but I think you take this a little to seriously guy. To start attacking me personally and calling me names (although who the heck knows what a dolt is) is a testament to the lameness of you as a hawk fan. See, I wont attack ALL hawks fans. Talk about the Celtics all you wish. Talk about Mr. Garnett all you wish, it wont affect me personally one bit. Maybe they should allow you to travel with the team and attack every fan that heckles them at games. Lol!

By BA

April 22, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Ando, have you not seen the steady improvement from Marvin every year? I know it makes your whole anti-silver lining thing works better if you write off Marvin. Doesn’t mean he’s a bust, though. And he’s certainly going to be an above average small forward. And please, seven reminders about your Rhondo/Bibby prediction is certainly enough. It was a good point, oh, six or seven posts ago. But you’re hardly Nostradamus.

By a tribe called qwest

April 22, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if you all agree or not, but Belkin was right on the J.J. trade, which has led to the fragmented ASG. If Belkin would have had his way; 1. We would have gotten JJ for one draft pick and not two 1st rd picks. 2. We would have picked CP3 or DWilliams 3. Would not have drafted Sheldon. Billy had been challenged on his draft selections by Belkin, the other Spirit Group members went along with Billy. Passing on CP3 was silly, but he was being spiteful. The Sheldon pick was just as dumb, but he went through with it.

By Mainevent

April 22, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

All of you basketball pundits thrill me! All of a sudden because your team makes the playoffs, NOW you have a right to call someone else names ie ill-informed dirt bags. Fact is you are supremely jealous of the fact that our GM did what your GM couldnt do over the years, build enough talent to trade for star players. Again, name calling is really not necessary and just shows the level of class you were obviously raised to have. I havent seen one post yet made by a celtic fan calling any of you….people, out of your names. Again, ANGER MANAGEMENT…try taking a class or two and realize that these athletes could care less about you or anyone you know. Rooting for a team is one thing, talking about players who dont know I even exist is one thing, but to attack someone who is simply having a debate on a message board is beneath me. Oh, by the way, we have some more room in the FAIR WEATHERED SECTION FOR ALL OF YOU TO COME ON OVER. We welcome all!!

By Volman

April 22, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Mainevent, it’s called a dictionary…or school. Please use one or the other to learn what a “dolt” is. Dolt. I’m not name-calling…just stating facts.

What 70 year old says LOL on blogs? Come on now, act your age.

You still have nothing to say to my response about the Hawks being “losers”. You simple said that you can call them losers if you want. What, are we in the 5th grade?

I’m happy you coached AAU basketball. It’s not hard to coach AAU. You probably run one or two plays, and let the players do the rest. I played AAU, I know what it’s all about. If you want me to, I can start listing off the high caliber players that I played against in high school… No? I didn’t think so.

Do you even read my posts? You have not responded to ANYTHING that I posted. You know they’re true. You know that Horford HELD HIS OWN AND SOME against “your Kevin Garnet, the defensive player of the year”. Where was that block when Horford did the sky hook in the lane? Shouldn’t have the DPOY blocked that? Shouldn’t he have not let Horford score? Hmmm. You’ve got a rookie out of position OUTPLAYING a veteran like Garnett….That was fun to watch.

Talk about the Celtics all I wish? I’m not the one going onto Atlanta blogs and posting about how “YOUR” (haha) Kevin Garnett is the best thing since sliced bread. I’m defending this team and this blog from trash posts by people who moved to the GREAT CITY of Atlanta for a better opportunity that they could not get in their home towns.. cough Boston cough.

CLICK HERE FOR A DICTIONARY if you still haven’t found out what a “dolt” is.

By jami$$ion

April 22, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

There sure is alot of animosity against the hawks for this to be a atlanta blog.Let’s make this quick.Could of had KG or Amare for our picks smooth & filler could of had allen for what we gave for bibby. & a pick since sea wanted capspace.But bk didn’t mortgage our future for a two year run,like miami.I unlike some of you are glad.Horford is the next TD & i don’t know about yall but i wouldn’t trade td for none of them head up sorry.Ainge did what any bad gm or smart man would have done.He saved his job.

By BA

April 22, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Like I said- dirtbags. You don’t see me posting on the Celtic page, calling them losers. AAU, what? Are you an NBA coach? No? Then you really don’t know CRAP. Spare us.

By cp

April 22, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

I agree with you BA in saying that Richardson is not a starter. I was only saying start him to give this team a different look. It gives them another shooter on the court. We all know JJ is going to see a lot of double and triple teams and it would be nice to have a guy out there who can knock down a 3. I would rather have Richardson jacking up 3’s than Josh Smith and Marvin just does not have that range…If Bibby is off again we will definately need someone who can hit that shot…When I brought up all those other guys I was not saying that we should have taken them. I was just making the point that they have developed better and im sick of hearing give Marvin time….I think Marvin will be the easiest player out of our starters to replace…At the end of the day I think we all are Hawks fans and want this team to improve….Some of us just have different opinions on how to make this team better….We will never agree on everything but I think its crazy that people insult you if what you say is not what they like….We will continue to talk about the asme thing on here year after year and you know why. Nothing has really changed. We have been discussing some of the same issues with this team for the past two if not three years…Until some changes are made the views will probably stay the same… It is hard to talk about something different if you have the same crap year in and year out.. We are still talking about we need another big, how weak our bench is, how Mr Potato head does not get it, our lack of depth on the bench and so on and so on…I want this team to win just as badly as the next fan but we are kidding ourselves if we think we will win with this front office and coaching staff…One last point about Marvin seeing how some people get upset if you talk about it… Until this kid shows on a consistent basis this so called talent he was supposed to have then there will always be the “we should have taken such n such talk”..It might not be fair but its just how it works…I dont think he is a bust but rather just a solid player. When fans and experts see how good guys we passed up are they will always refer back to Marvin…If he never puts up big numbers he will always be remembered as the guy the Hawks took instead of _( fill in the name you want)…

By MannyT

April 22, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

I’ll throw the DING in for this blog. Seems to be some harsh words bouncing about.

ray thanks for kind words about prior blog post.

I have NO PROBLEM with Bibby calling out the fans in Boston. That is less bulletin board material than calling out a player. I would guess that players notice these sorts of things (good/bad arenas & fans) and chat about them amongst themselves from time to time.

Given the state of expectations going into this series, I see the risk as similar to Woody getting on Doc’s nerves a few days ago. I doubt a Boston super fan will get a call from the good seats to come out and lock Bibby down if the Celts are up by 30 in the 3rd.

I think it would be more Ando-funny if Belkin came into the locker room to address the team. I could see a businesslike chat that goes a little like this…

*While I am a Celts fan and expect you guys to get swept, it is beneficial to my financial portfolio and bragging rights if you can win a game. The more the team is worth, the sooner I can force an ownership change…unless one of you knows a guy richer than me who would like to buddy up to the rest of your ownership group. Good luck tonight.

HA HA HA HA HA*

Speaking of fair weathered fans, it would be a shame if there were more people in Philips for the April 12th game than either of the playoff games. Hopefully a few more folks will RISE UP and get a ticket. It would be even better if it sounded like we want the Hawks to win.

This post is long enough, but I’ve got a response for Mr. Ando coming next.

BWAF

By MannyT

April 22, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Ando I enjoy your thoughtful approach to blogging, but I don’t agree with all of your views. I will agree with a part of your challenge about Doc vs Woody. Ainge did a better job of making adjustments during the past off season than BK did. At the same time, I suspect a level of stubbornness from both Woody and BK about making adjustments.

While there is enough blame to go around (ASG, BK, Woody), at the end of the day/start of the season, it makes more sense for the coach to adjust to the roster he has. Because it is not a fantasy team, significant roster changes are slow to happen in the NBA. The salary cap makes trading much more difficult for all GMs. Do you expect Devean George to be able to stop a trade? Did anyone really want Keith van Horne to suit up this season! Coaching and game planning are much more fluid.

In October, Woody seemed to recognize this and committed in words to coach an uptempo team. It generally seemed to provide better results when he did.

Unfortunately, he chose to move away from these strategies in November. He gets feedback every game about the level of success that his strategies provide the team. As a result, I put more weight on his failures because his position is the most likely to adapt on the fly to show results. Had he committed to an uptempo style for the season and it showed that the players could not flourish, THEN it would be on BK to make something happen.

The parallel I look at here for the decision making structure is working in a small company with 3 levels of managment. No matter how few skills the top level ownership may have, they still make the rules. The next level of management (BK) has to do its best regardless of top level competency.

(Not really supporting Isaiah Thomas here, but when I hear some of the testimony Jim Dolan gave in that sexual harassment case, it was clear that Dolan did nothing to help. It was like a Boston Legal episode where the lawyers main job is to get the boss to shut up. I think BK has had to face some similar challenges going back to the bickering over JJ and all the legal foolishness that has come after. If you were another GM, why bother dealing with the cap, the non-sports understanding judge, BK and the ASG?)

BK manages what resources you have at the organization, i.e. player selection via draft or trade. Once they are in house, the next level of management (Woody) has to do the best he can with what he’s got. He can always request other resources, but daily productivity is based on what is in the organization—RIGHT NOW. Reasonable arguments can be made for the in house resources, but I find it very condemning that most folks that look at the operation from bloggers/fans to NBA analysts & sports reporters come to the same conclusion that the existing resources are not well utilized.

Thus Woody goes first.

All that said, I hope we can keep you and the wicken crew from showing up on Monday with mystical traveling accessories. At the moment, I could live with a 5 game series.

BWAF

By doc

April 22, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

yeah manny t, the ding goes off and i put my scroll on, some of it i cant even find entertaining enough to laugh at, 8 yr olds on the playground pulling it out to see whose is bigger. life will calm down soon. could be a bleak and quiet summer of blogging, it has been fun to see few talented folks become regulars.

as far as biiby’s comments … why?

By MannyT

April 22, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

doc What does Bibby have to lose by taunting the fans? At some level I even think it’s a good thing from an entertainment perspective. Kind of like the testosterone soap opera…pro wrasslin’, someone needs to play the heel. It’s good for the business.

For all the blog fighters, we’ll give them penalty box time in the pool. That will put an end to the mine is bigger argument. Unfortunately, it might start a whose shrank faster fight ;-)

BWAF

By Mike Bibby's Deranged Uncle

April 22, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Y’all give my nephew, future first-ballot Hall of Famer Mike Bibby, a break.

I mean, when you have as many world championship rings as he does, and you represent a franchise that has as many championship banners as the Hawks, you can say whatever you …

Uh, nevermind.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 22, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

“I see that none of the folks who choose to hold Woody as most accountable for our limitations, also chose not to take on my Doc Rivers analogy. 42-win improvement, from last year to this. And Doc was taking way more heat, with constant calls for his head last season, than Woody is getting here. Woody is a flawed coach, but Doc Rivers is all the proof you need that the GM has to put the right roster together.”

I can’t speak for everyone else, but I chose not to respond to it because to me it’s not a very profound statement to say that adding a future Hall of Famer and a multiple-time All Star is gonna result in a dramatic improvement in your record regardless of who your coach is. But you are failing to make the distinction between bringing in good players and bringing in a good GM. Firing Billy Knight doesn’t mean you are gonna find another guy who will immediately come in and swindle some sorry team and bring in more than one All Star. In fact, more than likely it means you are committing yourself to another rebuilding project. And like I pointed out before, it’s not like the league’s elite GMs are lining up to want to work with the Atlanta Spirit Group. You seem to realize this yourself, since you keep gloating about the “summer of upheaval” coming once your John Edward-like prediction of “Celtics in 4” for which you keep patting yourself on the back comes true.

Oh yeah, and of course Doc Rivers is gonna take more heat than Mike Woodson. Rivers coaches a team that has won, what, 25 titles? When have the Atlanta Hawks ever been a relevant or prestigious franchise? Last I checked, there are zero banners that say “Atlanta Hawks NBA Champs” hanging from those Philips Arena rafters. Something tells me the expectations on the Celtics are just slightly higher than those for the Hawks.

In fact, if anything the Celtics’ situation is a half-decent argument for why the Hawks should keep Billy Knight (shudder). The same Bill Simmons you keep referring to (who is not by any stretch of the imagination a basketball expert, by the way) used to hate on Danny Ainge nearly as much as Doc Rivers. I can’t even count the number of times he ripped Ainge for forfeiting a chance at drafting Brandon Roy to trade for Sebastian Telfair instead, or giving Brian Scalabrine a 5-year contract, or taking on 2 years of Chucky Atkins’ salary just to add a late first-rounder… I could go on and on. But all of a sudden, Ainge was finally able to push his head out of his sphincter right around draft day and make a couple of outstanding trades to make the Celtics a championship contender. (Of course, it helps that he was trading with a Seattle team that was trying to dump salary and a Minnesota team headed by the worst GM in the league.) Looking at his tenure with the C’s almost makes you wonder whether Billy Knight can’t all of a sudden grow a brain himself, Danny Ainge-style.

(I really hope the ASG doesn’t read that last paragraph).

Firing the Whopper (Billy Knight? BK? Whopper? Get it?) might result in a good team 5 years from now (word to Mike Jones), assuming you don’t hire the next Kevin McHale, but it’s incredibly unlikely that replacing him will result in an immediate improvement for this team. Firing Woody will result in a better team next year, assuming you don’t hire Helen Keller. If you really think an average coach like Sam Mitchell or Scott Skiles (not to mention elite coaches like Popovich or Sloan) couldn’t scrape more than 37 wins from this team in the Eastern Conference you are delusional. I really can’t imagine a coach who can do a worse job than Woody has with this team.

And like I pointed out on the previous blog, arguing whether Billy or Woody is worse is like arguing whether you’d rather elect a giant douche or a turd sandwich. I only feel compelled to write this post because you seem to be straining yourself trying to pat yourself on the back, so I’m trying to make sure you don’t pull a muscle.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 22, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

I must also give some props to FlashMarker for his 3:07 PM post. You are officially the anti-Ando. Seriously, that post nearly made me laugh out loud. I will be really surprised if your last name is not Levenson or Gearon.

By BosnianBaller

April 22, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

Bibby is right.Last year they were moaning like little b*** when they didn’t get the 1st pick and that place was always empty.Thanks to Ainge’s best friend McHale they got KG.

By Ryan

April 22, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Bibby is an ignorant DB, IMO. Though he has played for two of the most fair-weathered fanbases in history, which makes him a sort-of expert in fair-weathered-ness, he fails to realize that even when we were knocking out 18-game losing streaks we were still selling out our arena. And, correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t one of Atlanta’s only sell-outs when the C’s came to town? Luckily, in just 3 more games I can go back to never having to think about Bibby, which is my preferred state. And to those Hawk fans (all 18 of you): have a nice summer! Wear your sunscreen! Enjoy the Chris Paul and Deron Williams Era!

Ryan

By Volman

April 22, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Guys, I love to post about any Hawks-related news and anything that brings VALUE to the Hawks. Period.

I am not going to stand for any Boston fans (or any other teams’ fans in this case) to come on here and start talking like they know something. I’m going to defend this team (not blindly though).

I will see you guys at 303 during the playoffs, and 303 row 2 during the next Hawks season.

Look forward to seeing you all out there, Hawks fans.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 22, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

“Wear your sunscreen”? Bahahahahahahaha. Unlike y’all a 50 degree day down here doesn’t qualify as “nice”. Keep those snow boots ready, you’ll need ‘em by the time the Patriots start training camp.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 22, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

KG wins the Defensive Player of the Year award. Josh Smith finishes 6th, behind KG, Camby, Battier, Bruce Bowen and Kobe.

By MannyT

April 22, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

Najeh Nice HARP (HB Ando Response Package)

For all the talk about why a good coach wouldn’t work for BK…it leads to the similar why would a better than BK GM work for ASG? At least the coach has BK to buffer some of their ownership issues. Now that Bernie’s gone, BK has no shielding from the direct rays of the ownership sunlight.

His pupils could be scorched to ash by now.

BWAF

By doc

April 22, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

volman i will be in section 113, maybe we can get a few together to chat up the hawks. looking forward to the event no matter the outcome. i am going to find something in the closet that can compete with whatever manny t can pull out of his.

flashmarker is just plain sick. sorry dude, go get your medicine before the delusional thinking spreads into other areas of your life if it hasnt already.

aj, see your boy mark made an attempt to get belkin for an interview? glad to hear he is wishing us well … yeah, right!

By Clyde

April 22, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Volman its hard to defend your team when your team doesn’t defend itself. The truth is the truth. You can defend the Hawks all you want but if they don’t go out on the court and perform then your wasting your time.

And speaking of wasting my time I’m starting to believe I’m wasting my time posting on this blog. The Hawks are starting to remind me of that alcoholic cousin that just won’t leave the drugs and alcohol alone. There come a time when you just have to sever your ties with him and hope to God he gets his life together. This is how I feel about the Hawks.

By Volman

April 22, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Doc, awesome man. I will be in 303 next season because they increased the season ticket prices and I’m a poor college student! hah… Wish I could get some better seats!

I will have my “Sam Cassel= Alien” sign in 303 during games 3 and 4.

Clyde,

If you actually read my post I did talk about the Hawks not showing up for games…I don’t defend the team when they don’t play well. I sure as hell will defend them though against people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

I blog on here not for ANYONE ELSE’s SAKE. I do it for fun. :-) It’s fun for me to come on here and defend the Hawks. It’s as much fun as you constantly posting fire billy and woody.

Just have fun.

By MannyT

April 22, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

Volman I’ll be in 303 G for the playoffs. I ditched a seat to drop into 108 for next season. Too bad for my neighbor.

My screen does autoscroll on the beantown bloggers.

Najeh Nice HARP (HB Ando Response Package). Using his own argument, why would a “good” GM want to come here and work directly for the ASG? When BK started, Bernie Mullin was around to defect the insanity. At least Woody or the next coach has one layer of buffer unless they pull a Jerry Jones.

BWAF

By jami$$ion

April 22, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

This discussion is far too petty to be so volatile.But being that i am an authentic citizen of atlanta, & resident of this blog.It is my civil duty to address you with the most gentle,polite,warmth of southern hospitality i know.Fu(K U!You sound so mentally challenged,”i hate atlanta it doesn’t have this or that blahblahblah.”And that is find you are entitled to your opinion,but your opinion is not welcome,respected,or valid here.It only shows your intellectual capacity is misconstrued.

By MannyT

April 22, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

doc I’ve got something special, but not too wild, coming in time for Saturday’s game. I’ll confirm once it arrives. I’ll be easy to find as I show some support for the bench.

Clyde If you don’t stay, you will have time to get on the Atlanta Dream bandwagon. No one to fire yet, but I’m sure they will enjoy any support.

How about this for amusement. Good thing that BK didn’t sign Dampier. He’s got about $33 Million left on that contract for the next 3 seasons. Avery is calling him out for not being an enforcer because Dirk got slapped.

As TBS would say…now that’s funny.

BWAF

By MannyT

April 22, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

Quasi double posting, misspelling…enough.

The BCU might lock me down in that penalty pool with the rough and tumble bloggers.

Time to self regulate. No more blogging for awhile.

Gotta get it together for the Western conference games tonight…Good evening folks.

BWAF

By Scott

April 22, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this

*By Dan

April 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

The Celtics are the �97 Florida Marlins of the NBA. They just went out and bought a bunch of good players. They have not developed anything. I am sick of hearing how �improved� they are. They aren�t improved at all! They just brought in better players. Last year�s guys still suck.*

Are you serious? Celtics didn’t sign Garnett and Allen as Free Agents… they were trades that were worked out using the chips that Ainge built up in the draft. THAT IS WHAT YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO DO. The players from last year suck?? Rondo… sucks??? Right.

By Astro Joe

April 22, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

Doc, yeah, I saw that Bradley was good enough to get an extended “no comment” from Belkin. A real Pulitzer prize winner, that Bradley.

I was able to convince a very dedicated Ticketmaster employee to allow me to switch my Game 3 tickets to Game 4. I try to give my weekends to the family. So I’m on the prowl for a Horford jersey or t-shirt. This will be the first time I’ve ever purchased a player’s gear, I usually opt for team merchandise. But I like “The Lil Fundamental” so much that I’ll ante up some cash for something with his name/number on it.

Let’s hope that Smith avoids wings, ranch dressing, turnovers, barbers and long distance jumpers in the next 27 hours.

By Volman

April 22, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Manny T, those seats seem great. You will have fun next season.

Hope I wasn’t too loud and obnoxious during the season! haha

By Don M.

April 22, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Good constructive debate here. Did the C’s buy a championship? No. They used the system that the NBA built to go down the veteran road versus young athletes. Hawks fans are just hating on the Celtics because we’re winning. We Celtics fans would do the same if the shoe was on the other foot. That’s how the sports world works for fans.

If any schmuck wants to say I’m on the bandwagon, you can go f yourself. I’ve been a fan since the early 80s, watched them in the horrible Rick Patino days, got hope when the Antoine and Pierce teams almost made some noise in the playoffs, and struggled throughout the past few yeas.

Regardless, there are a lot of bandwagon fans with all winning teams. This year and with the Celtics is no different. Truth be told, the Garden is always at capacity or close to it - even during the past few years when the team was more entertaining than a winner.

I can’t speak to the Hawks franchise because I’m a Boston fan. But I’m sure if they beat the Celtics, the bandwagon will need more seats.

However, the Celtics will sweep Mr. Bibby and the Hawks.

Wait ‘till next year boys.

By A Thinking Fan

April 22, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

once again

The NBA playoffs are about Budget & Vets! Boston has both�

ASG is broke & a broken Spirit!!!

Woody & Billy are their hires; what big name or good coach is going to come here on the cheap? It ain�t about Woody or Billy; it�s about CASH!

By are you serious

April 22, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Chris Paul at this point in the game has 27 points and I think 13 dimes…. How people still defend Marvin Williams is beyond me….Im willing to go out on a limb here and say Marvin wont score no more than 15 points in the next game…..It is time for people to put down the koolaid and admit that this kid will never be a star…. Chris Paul is going to finish in the top 3 of MVP voting while many fans are wondering if it would be better to bring Marvin Williams off the bench… I think that pretty much says enough…

By scottbravesfan

April 22, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Boston fans don’t support anything unless they are winning. The Thrashers, yes the THRASHERS outdraw the Bruins every year. The Celtics couldn’t draw flies the last few years and they have had playoff years, not a long streak like the Hawks. The Patriots almost left New England and they were always blacked out, even though they went to the super bowl in 96 and back in the 80s. When Roger Clemens struck out 20 back in 86 there was less than 20,000 fans there. And Red Sox went to the World Series that year. So Boston fans can’t talk.

By scottbravesfan

April 22, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

You want to know how the Boston media thinks of their sports fans?

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sportsblog/blog/2008/04/22/hockeytownnotquite/

Takes the p** out of their “fans” Makes fun of all the bandwagon Red Sox fans and the ones that showed up last week as “diehard” Bruins fans. Now all of those Bruin fans are back to rooting for which ever team is winning since they were destroyed by the Canadians. Oh and at least the Thrashers could sell out their arena for the playoffs last year. The Garden had TONS of Canadian fans for every “home” Boston game.

By Steve T

April 22, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Manny T, you do not let anyone slap your SuperStar. You take a tech before you let them get away with that. I can still see Robert Parrish beat Bill Lamibeer down for hitting Bird.

By HB Ando

April 22, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

Mind boggling! We get trounced, by 23, and Marvin contributes 9 points, 3 rebounds, 0 assists, and 4 turnovers.

Meanwhile, tonight, New Orleans goes up 2 games to naught, over the Mavs, with Chris Paul casually tossing in 32 points, 17 dimes, 5 boards, and 3 steals.

Yet still there remain folks here, on this very blog, who continue to act like Billy Knight’s decision to draft Marvin is a work in progress; too early to draw a conclusion!

Seriously, get a grip! Short of Bowie instead of Jordan, this may be the the second greatest draft blunder in the history of the NBA. And the fact that Billy followed it up with the Shelden pick, while Roy, Foy and Gay were all on the board, arguably makes him the worst drafter in the history of the NBA.

Please, someone, anyone, objectify a worse series of lottery decisions than Billy made, from ‘04 to ‘06. Just give me names, slots, and players passed on, that exceed Billy’s failures.

Don’t babble about what Marvin might become. Don’t undermine your credibility by still hanging on to the idea that Childress is a peer of Igoudala or Deng. Don’t ignore the fact that Monta Ellis was projected to be a late first round pick, and that Billy chose Salim when Ellis was still on the board.

Just man up and admit the guy is a buffoon. How hard is that??!!

By mykhalc

April 22, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

pls we KNOW CP3 can ball at this point!!!

By BA

April 22, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

This is all a part of the learning experience for the Hawks. How can you really expect these young players to know how to carry themselves in the playoffs? The Bibby performance baffles me. Yeah, Rhondo did a good job on D, but half of Bibby’s missed shots were wide open. A.C. Law could’ve (should’ve) been a big part of this series. For all the griping about point guards over the past few years, we have the talent here now, but Woodson has wasted it. I hope this game one loss really hurt the Hawks. No, I hope it made them ANGRY. Horford and Childress came out and acted like they BELONG in this series. Time for the other starters to follow the example set by those two. And Mike Bibby, you better put up some SERIOUS numbers in game two. And please, don’t eat the room service. Not even the mint, sir.

By Volman

April 22, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I think MOSTLY everyone has realized that Chris Paul is a superstar.

Why continue to worry about the past it’s not going to change anything? Honestly…

I’m glad that the Hawks have Horford for A LONG TIME.. Now he’s someone to build around. Chris Paul is a superstar, but I can see Horford being great as well.

By drmaryb

April 22, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

Hey If I may jump in here:
I was posting on the old blog for a lack of knowing: There wz a New Blog!

By drmaryb

April 22, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Go ray-star

your stuff is ridiculous that�s all I can say - Get Em�!.

Yeah! man I got love for anybody who got passion an opinion and some game! If you can dish it and take it?

I say Bring it On! Just don�t cry when I bust you in your face - because, I don�t cry when they bust me in mine.

So, There is no crying on the - Blog Crimes Unit! No - cry-babies! (That�s My Motto!)

Speaking of cry-babies, it that a (wah! wah! waaah!) I hear coming over there from HOUSTON, TX?

What in the world is Rick Adleman complaining about? -

Officiating? Officiating - Your�e talking to me about - OFFICIATING?

What is this Tracey McGrady crap all about? This bum is one-dimensional and is apparently allergic to DEFENSE, much like the HAWKS are. And, his candy-butt Is complaining about OFFICIATING?

I Don�t even talk about the Hawks anymore. (in case you all haven�t noticed!)

They Hawks haven�t done a damn thing for me - LATELY and until they do? Nuff Said! It�s all been said before.

Whoever is Pi$$ing LeBron off? Just STOP IT! That is Just WRONGE!

Let�s Play some B-ball & Let�s make some NOISE! Just Win!

By drmaryb

April 22, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

Al Horford may have the back-bone of:

Sir-Charles Think about it! If we had a dominant #5? whew! can you say TWIN-TOWERS?

Hey HB I got Thong-Love for you too! As, long as it�s OK with my man RichBrave?

(He better say, �NO-Way! - The Girl Is Mine!� -MJ-) LMBoobiesO

doc are you stirrin� & stirrin� & stirrin� that old black kettle again?

By O'brien

April 22, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Ando, Its not just Chris Paul. BK also passed on Deron Williams who has more size. He had 20 points, 10 assists in game 1. And 22 pts, 5 assists in game 2. Both road wins. But then again, both Paul and Deron have good coaches and a defined system. Also, if Salim was getting consistent playing time (like Marvin), who knows what kind of numbers Salim would have…

By Alpha Ando

April 22, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I can see Shelden Williams being great too……..No reason to hold the team accountable for horrible decisions. Why don’t we just smile, as they increase ticket prices and scramble for the 8th seed again, next year? Keeping JJ and Bibby, and re-signing the Josh’s, at market value, puts our projected cap number at around $68 million. That’s only about $14 million more than this year. Excuse me if anyone is confusing my pragmatism for negativity, but exactly who really believes that the ASG, as it stands right now, is going to bump payroll up by $14 million? And let’s be very blunt, that Billy told Sekou he intends to re-sign the Josh’s.

I may not be a math major, but reasonable market for those two is about $12 million for Smith, and at least $6 million for Childress. Bibby and JJ are already penciled in at $28, combined.

Any one of you can google our projected cap number, for next season, and then add the realistic salaries for the Josh’s, if you are to believe Billy’s assertion that we’ll keep both Josh’s.

Yet the Joe’s and the Doc’s continue to point to a broke-a* ASG as the core problem. So either they’re not as broke as you want to paint them, or their GM is a freakin’ liar.

No matter how you slice it, this team gets busted up this summer.

Book it!

P.S. At the recommendation of Ray, I am adjusting my blog handle. Don’t hate the player. Just hate…..well, I was going to say the game. But really, you should just hate your hate. ‘Cause it’s rare that any of you actually bring a compelling counter-point, as opposed to whining and crying.

What’s even more ironic is that my last statement will elicit an onslaught of more whining and crying.

Talk about puppet mastering the masses………..

By BA

April 22, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

Lets call out everybody that had a bad game in Boston. Marvin, BIBBY, Joe, Salim, Josh Smith. Why so many guys at once? It has nothing to do with the fast breaks, or Bibby throwing up bricks; it’s BALL MOVEMENT. The passing was almost non-existent. When the Hawks are going good, they are running, and they are passing. Boston seems to prefer aggression on defense. Try to use it to your advantage. Pass out of the constant double teams. And somebody, even if you get a tech, take out this Rhondo with a good hard pick. As far as Marvin? Yeah, they should’ve picked Paul. So what? Marvin is not a bust, like Shellhead Williams. His numbers in three years have continued to increase. The rebounds(or lack thereof)? The guy plays with Horford and Josh Smith. If you’ve been watching these games, then you know these two undersized players have proven to be two of the most prolific young rebounders in the game. There’s only so many boards to get. Anyway, for every mistake Knight has made, he’s made equally good moves that some of you refuse to acknowledge. Joe Johnson? Good trade, in retrospect. Bibby? Good trade. The Hawks wouldn’t be where they are without the guy. Josh Smith? I think it’s safe to say he was a good pick. Who’s to say we’d be any better with Igoudala (who thinks he’s better than he is) or Deng (A glorified jump shooter)? Childress showed out in game one, one of the few encouraging things I saw. Horford? I’d say HE was a pretty good pick. It’s Woodson to blame for so many more reasons than Knight for the Hawks shortcomings.

By BA

April 22, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Somebody has caught some AJC blog version of the Starbury disease…

By Alpha Ando

April 23, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

O’Brien, have you actually watched Salim play? I have. And what I see is a guy who has exactly one legitimate skill, which is shooting the ball. He’s got no handle, can’t defend either the one or the two. Has no lateral mobility. Can’t pass. Can’t jump. He’s a 6’1 shooting guard, who is a match up deficit every time he steps on the floor.

Please explain to me how a different coach is going to give him quicks, handle, court-vision, 2-guard size, hops, or a mid-range game.

Look, Ben Gordon has everything that Salim lacks, and he still can’t justify a starting role in Chicago. He’s a two-guard in a PG’s body. Which means he’s a match up problem if he’s in the starting line up, night in, and night out. Yet he’s a natural coming off the bench, where he’s instant offense, and far easier to hide, as a defensive liability.

Here’s an open wager, for anyone who wants the action: Salim won’t be a Hawk next year. $20 bucks to anyone who wants a piece.

And I don’t know how many of you “fans” bothered to watch the McDonald’s All-American game, back in the summer of ‘05. I did. And I watched a 6’3 combo guard, who was largely projected to go in the first round, and who clearly had the quickest first step of anyone on the floor, named Monta Ellis, stay in his seat, while Billy chose a one-dimensional, undersized shooting guard, who’s college coach, Lute Olsen, had specifically suggested he should transfer out of Arizona, because he was so uncoachable.

The proof is always in the pudding. Is there anyone here who’d like to take a stab at what the conversation would sound like, if the Hawks were to approach the Warriors, with a suggestion of a mutual sign-and-trade of Salim for Ellis?

Folks continue to confuse highlighting these inexcusable Billy Knight mistakes with crying over spilled milk. That’s not the point. You can’t change his repeated and mind-boggling failures, as a GM.

But you can acknowledge his accountability, for repeated failures. And you can fire him, so he’ll never have another opportunity to continue to set this franchise back, for what may amount to another decade.

3 more blowouts. 8 games under .500. No draft picks. And a projected $68 million dollar budget to keep this underwhelming, imbalanced roster together, for another run at next years’ 8th seed.

ASG WILL NOT approve the necessary budget to keep this team intact. Deal with it. This isn’t the start of something special. It’s the beginning of the end, of a failed rebuilding, with multiple changes imminent.

If anyone wants to shoot the messenger, feel free. But don’t shy away from “I told you so”, when this summer plays out like I predict.

By FUNK DAT

April 23, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

I’ll man up. Billy Knight is a baffoon.

By richbrave

April 23, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this

HB:

I have been wearing out my prayer rug bowing down before your intellect.

Easy boy. We like having you here, but when you have flights of fantasy about your “Alpha-ness” it curdles our stomachs.

Just post up your thoughts, and we’ll respond in kind. I’m still gonna’ say the Hawks win one(#4).

I’ll have to pass posting comments such as you want from the unwashed masses since I’ve only seen the team play a hand-ful of times. But if I ever garner enough knowledge to be intelligent, I’ll let you know first.

I’ll agree with you that positions #1 and 5 are the only ones on the team that count. Everything else is just interchangable parts.

Besides, I’ve got to finish this dammed thesis and take care of business at the Cardiac OR first. Sorry, but I’m busy right now.

By jami$$ion

April 23, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

a alpha ando u r so right the proofs in the pudding. and we all can agree nelly’s a damn good chef.and woody couldn’t microwave a hotpocket!I’ve seen salim break the hawks 3pt record in a qt put up 39 &38pts when jj was out last year at a high clip.and jj smooth bibby chills marv ain’t never put up them many pts.If salim was in GS & ellis was here it a be the same ish.CUZ JJ PLAYS 42MINUTES A GAME!WHAT THE HELL CAN U DO IN 4MINUTES? SHOW ME A 4MINUTE ALLSTAR,U CAN’T? The illogical analogies u manufactor!

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 23, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this

I paid 20 bucks to go to game 3, so I’m still gonna tell myself they will win that game. Otherwise, yeah, they are gonna get swept. Predicting that still is nothing special… I mean it’s not like everyone and their momma didn’t predict that in the first place anyway.

By MannyT

April 23, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

Mr. Ando with all due respect, you avoid, scroll, & ignore when your challenges have been addressed.

Both Najeh at 5:02 and I addressed your comments on this blog. My 411 showed up at 4/22 4:22PM above.

I also addressed a prior challenge on 4/19.

Links included for your convenience.

No direct argument to your Salim assessment and wager. However, I would not be surprised if he does better next season under a different coach that finds ways to use his skills. Like Boris Diaw, I would not call him great, but more of a contributor in Phoenix than here.

While team may look very different in the fall, BK still may be the architect. Why do I think so? If you compare him to other NBA GMs he is in the middle of the pack. Additionally, if you look closer to home, he is better than Babcock was and seems to do a lot better than his hockey counterpart who has the advantage of a much firmer salary cap. He isn’t GM for life, but I think his cat has one or two more lives left than Woody’s.

It’s late consider this your AARP (Alpha Ando Response Package) update for the evening. I’m done after Barkley’s act on TNT.

BWAF

By HB Ando

April 23, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

RB, you’re patronizing me, and I LIKE IT. Please understand that my handle transformation was the direct result of an inside joke between Ray and me. Please don’t take me any more seriously than I take myself (and, man, there’s an ongoing and vastly divergent range of opinions on that specific issue).

Certainly I can understand your prioritization of final edits to a thesis, as well as whatever responsibility you may have within the Cardiac OR. Yet I am compelled to ask, “is there anything truly more life or death than the fortunes of these Atlanta Hawks?”.

I, myself, struggle to fulfill my sense of moral obligation, to contribute here, while juggling accelerated projects to convert salt water to fresh, using mesh technology, as well negotiating, behind the scenes, comprehensive health care coverage, for all children, within our borders, under the age of 18, regardless of citizenship.

If that’s not enough, I find myself obligated to manage the sobriety of both Lindsey Lohan and Britney Spears, while pretending I still am invested in Tara Reid and the train wreck that is her multiple attempts at breast augmentation.

I’m also trying to find work for Bud Bundy, as he’s best known, while his former co-stars seek to redefine themselves as something far greater than the sum of their roles in “Married with Children”.

I think it’s fair to say that none of us can stand in judgment, of another, when it comes to the choices we make, and the consequences we acknowledge, in our attempts to nurture and do good.

As far as the value of positions #1 and #5, it’s been my steadfast position that those two roles were the critical keys to any broad-based rebuilding efforts. The dismissal of that perspective, by the original, and ongoing front office, was cause for much, relentless consternation, on the part of this humble fan.

Essentially discounted, from the earliest genesis of this fan-based forum, I’ve found myself prone to parroting the same, justifiable concerns, as the most recent season outcomes have validated the logic of said position.

So now, I attempt to objectify a projected $68 million cap number, should this team remain intact, assuming matches for market-value based offers for both Josh’s, as well as the $28 million, combined that JJ and Bibby are contracted for (as Billy said they expected to re-sign both Josh’s).

And I find myself skeptical at the notion that such a number will be committed to, by the ASG.

So, you have no picks, no real reason to believe that the ASG, as it stands, will up payroll by, say $14 million, no logical option for that $150 million investor, to take out Belkin, and a foggy picture of whether either Billy, and/or Woody (best hope to drive the other issues forward would be the dismissal of both), will be given the old pink slip.

I’m guessing, in the Cardiac OR, that offering an answer like, “well, maam, it is what it will be”, is rarely well received. Yet there’s a sense that the fans of Atlanta are just as likely to be fed that kind of half-assed, round-about non-answer, as the summer progresses, plan ill-defined.

With Isiah finally, mercifully, removed from the day-to-day operations of the KNicks, the Hawks really have no one left to hide behind, from a management perspective.

‘Course Billy could hire Isiah. And then the circle of insanity would truly be complete.

I’d just have to find a new team to criticize, much to the joy of so many here………..

By ray

April 23, 2008 1:42 AM | Link to this

Mainevent

Let’s start with name-calling. You began this by calling our players losers. Then you wanted to tangle with my man Volman. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds, which is evidently the exact opposite of your intelligence. You don’t know what a “dolt” is? I’ll bet you also don’t know who the idiot in your village is either. Here’s a clue: it’s a three letter pronoun that begins with “Y” and ends with “U.” Wanna buy a vowel?

So let me get this straight- YOU have the right to say as you please on a blog, but Bibby has no right to say what he wants? Riiiiight.

I’ll give Danny Ainge credit for getting Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. He made the best move there that he ever did. 95% of the moves he did prior to that were crappy. So, he gets a championship-worthy team and makes himself and his coach look like geniuses overnight. Even a blind squirrel knows what a nut smells like. Up until then, both deserved the daily criticism.

Our team is not a bunch of losers, anymore than YOUR team was before they got lucky with some desperate deals neatly done by your previously “doltish” GM. Nearly all of our guys have value and talent. Nearly. They are not taught or developed properly, and many are playing out of position night after night, where their talents and abilities are not maximized. The losers begin with the coach and migrate up the ladder. WE as fans know that personnel changes need to be made. WE know our GM hasn’t done much for the team. WE know the coach is not good. WE aren’t as lucky as Boston fans are right now. But I don’t recall Boston fans making much noise (or showing up everywhere) prior to this year, either…

But hey, I don’t expect you to understand this. Fact is: you’re another migrating hater. I’d tell you to get a clue, but….”you couldn’t get a clue during the damn clue mating season in a field full of very horny clues, even if you smeared your body with clue musk, and did the clue mating dance.”

By Alphabet Ando's dad

April 23, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

Sorry, guys. I really beat the crap out of this kid. Guess this is all my fault.

By ray

April 23, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

Honest Abe

You have to understand that if I call you a clown, it’s not at all meant as an insult or anything like that. A playful chiding term at the worst. And I never call people I don’t like a clown. You’re cool with me…scoffing dagger-isms and all. Wouldn’t be the same if you went all mellow on me. As to our disagreement, you know me. Rarely is it a simple and short reply if I really believe in the point I’m trying to make. And usually I’ll try to find the middle of the road once I can get the passion out of my system. Know what I mean?

By ray

April 23, 2008 2:30 AM | Link to this

Today’s News

Tired of this yet? Heh, heh…

Chris Paul is the MAN. What is he averaging in his first two playoff games EVER? Something to the tune of 35ppg and 13apg?

Somewhere in Dallas, Mark Cuban is wondering if he overpaid for Jason Kidd…Let’s see, no Devin Harris to knife through the lane on offense and keep up with Chris Paul on defense. No Desagana Diop to clog the lane, rebound, and block shots when Dampier is shirking his duty (which is damn near all the time). Hmmm…I don’t know, Mark…heh.

I know you’re sick of hearing about Chris Paul. Sorry. If only I had a time machine, a ninja suit, and a pair of concealable cordless hair clippers. I think I could infiltrate the offices of the GM and make a threat that would change the future (now the present) of this franchise…

Mike Bibby may have sounded like a fool when he said what he did about Boston fans. For the diehards, it’s just not true. For everyone else: truth hurts and the shoe fits, now STFU. If it didn’t apply to you, then you wouldn’t have responded, now would you?

Fact is, beat down or not, somebody needed to do something to try and fire things up a bit. But to be honest, Bibby’s going to have to have a better game (and rest of the series) before he starts looking like Deshawn Stevenson…

The more I watch, the more I believe that the biggest matchup between the Spurs and Suns is Popovich vs. D’Antoni. I said it last time and I believe it still. The play calls are what they are. The players are who/what they are. But it’s the constant chess match between the coaches that really gets my attention (in between gratuitous dunks, hooks, long bombs, dazzling passes, daring drives, and leaning/flying/falling jumpers of course). The movement, the gauging, the baiting. The matchup exploitations, both obvious and subtle. Ahhhhh. I pray for the day we have a coach who can actually engage in this sort of battle.

As it is, the high-powered, revamped Suns are down 2-0. Don’t tell me the uber-poised, uber-disciplined, implaccable Spurs are done. The only bad thing is this: IF (and we know it’s not over yet) they send Phoenix packing…will they have enough left for L.A. or anybody else they may face? If Phoenix wins, I don’t worry about them. Those runnin’ fools always have enough gas in the tank. But as they continue to find out, gas in the tank is not enough by itself against these Spurs…

I have to extend an apology. You can thank me for the recent Alpha Ando stuff. In a conversation Monday night, I told Ando that after somebody sarcastically called him the “Alpha” he should begin posting as “Alpha Ando”, and that this would really rile things up. Needless to say, I was right in making this prognostication. Those of you who were around for the former persona known as “Andro” will know and recognize the tune of this song….

A small hint: Heh…telling Ando that he’s patting himself on the back is like yelling at a fish for swimming: Do you expect the fish to respond by stopping or swimming faster? Think about, think about it….

And I’m out…

By jami$$ion

April 23, 2008 4:58 AM | Link to this

Danny ainge traded a 5th pick,another 1st round pick,and 3players for ray allen,and is looked upon as a shrewd hero.BK trades a 5th pick,a 2nd roundpick,& 3trashmen for bibby & is considered a baffoon.Bk steals JJ an allstar for diaw & rondo.Paxson got bg 3rd in the draft & deng 6th.BK drafted chills 5th & smoove 17th,but bk’s a fool. I’d rather be a fool,cause paxson’s straight retarded.O most of yall wanted conley & noah,or conley & hawes.All Bk did was draft the next td & roy,with a better pg.KILL YOSELF

By jami$$ion

April 23, 2008 5:20 AM | Link to this

And this imbalanced roster ish,is the most absurd ish I’ve since height qualifies you to play a certain position.Det & La best two rosters in the league.Two of the best teams also.Det does not have a center on that roster,they absolutely have no one to control the paint.La one of the worst pg tandems in the league.The two positions you so called analysts say you need to win a championship.MJ won 6 championships with neither a dominate pg or center at all.Average at best.Neither clev or orl have qualitypgs

By doc

April 23, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

hey ray, our “boy” looks like he is andro on roids. he is beyond human right now.

well drmaryb i see you are regaining your sanity and crossing back over to the side of reality when it comes to the hawks. i bet you dont feel the least bit a hata, right? yeah, i also like strirring the pot a bit when it comes to friends and enjoying the humor of the moment.

man, i hate to see my suns go down like that but the spurs are so good. you got to expect to go 15 rounds with a true champion and that organization is just that along with the big fundamental. hate to say it but the king is dead ( shaq) long live the king (duncan), at least until game three. as heard on tbs by the bark man, it aint over until someone loses on their home court.

next question, dont we need to send our blog crimes until to san antoine to begin to do undercover work for the next gm and coach?

oh yeah, scintillating stuff, alpha boy. heh heh

oh yeah ray, why cant AJC jeff repeat himself a bit to drive the point home about how sorry this organization is? isnt that what we continue to do each day? seems like he could come over and participate at the liar’s table and hold up quite well to most of us … well maybe not. we got a few stellar playas here too.

one more, oh yeah. are all BOSTON FOLKS that DUMB and CLUELESS (since they dont know what dolt means thought i would spell it out for them)? gee, when i went up there this past summer and spent some time in the area including the best place to watch a baseball game fenway i didnt seem to notice them with the iq’s as low as the folks who visited yesterday. i thought they were delightful. now, what will the fresh day bring us today. see they arent up yet, probably liquored up. i mean dont they all have a drinking problem or is it just the kennedy clan from massachusetts?

good day! oh yeah and keep it real loose. ok, i had one more.

By richbrave

April 23, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

See you boys got cranked a little after I went to bed. Just wanted to stir the pot a bit. Things were a little quiet. HB does love contention and adversity so. heh,heh,heh.

drmaryb:

Where you been girl.? You are the one and only cyber-queen of mean. My lady.

By ajw

April 23, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Has Bibby not paid any attention to the Atlanta fans? I think he was actually criticizing Atlanta fans by pretending to dog the Celtic fans. Boston is so much better of a sports town than Atlanta.

By Astro Joe

April 23, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

I question the rationalization of instigating ongoing novelettes by an ego-maniac. Can’t find enough drivel on the web?

That boring, methodical, non-descript San Antonio team keeps doing their thing against “the next big thing”. Funny how boring, methodical, non-descript and disciplined almost always beats the “next big thing”. Where are all of those “we should be the Phoenix of the East” requests? Oh, gone like the other high-octane “next big things” that died a quiet death.

By RA

April 23, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Kudos to Mike Bibby for calling out the Boston fans. It might get our butts torn out of the frame tonight, but the kid’s got moxie, I’ll give him that.

What must be understood is that it does not take a great deal of courage to speak bravely when your team is decidedly more talented, decidedly more experienced, and decidedly deeper than your opponent. It takes even less courage to bitterly criticize a team who being outmanned, out talented, and out experienced still played hard and were in the game until the 3rd quarter. I believe that the ultimate outcome of this series was decided before the tipoff of game one, but if those young men can conduct themselves with honor, the will have nothing of which to be ashamed. As for the rest of us, we’d do well to remember the word’s of Theodore Roosevelt:

“It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.”

By ATrueHawksFan

April 23, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Good morning fans!!! I’m a newbie, when it comes to posting but..I’ve been a daily visitor for some time..This morning I couldn’t help but to toss in my 2cents. I’d like a lil feedback on the following starting lineup: Bibby, JJ, Smoove, Horford & Solo at the 5. My thinking is Solo’s purpose would be to be physical with KG(even play Hack-A-KG). This would allow Horford to play perkins which I like and Smoove would be an improvement over Marvin against Pierce. Additonally, our bench would have more firepower(when Marvin is on).

By Steve Belkin

April 23, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

When I take over this franchise, Billy Knight is SO fired.

You can thank me later.

By RA

April 23, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Steve Belkin,

Wow, what an honor! So you’re the genius that almost blocked Joe Johnson, our only all-star over the last decade from coming here from Phoenix. Wow, I am so thrilled to finally blog with you. I mean the part you’ve played in keeping ownership enmeshed in this legal struggle which has proven to be a distraction to the organization at every level. I’m just overcome by the sheer gratitude I feel every time I think of what a laughing stock the franchise at-large has been because of you! Yea, I’d like to thank you, and I’m sure that a lot of other Hawks fans would love to thank you too. I’ll tell you what, uhm, let me go back to the house and get a pitchfork and maybe some torches and I’ll see if I can round up a few friends for a flight to Boston so that we can thank you up close and personal like.

By MannyT

April 23, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Astro Comparing where we are right now to where Phoenix is, I could be happy with Phoenix of the east.

I think Phoenix has a better shot at taking 4 of 5 from San Antonio than we have of winning 4 of 6 from Boston.

ray we need to dial up that old TV show, Quantum Leap. You can go back and fix what’s wrong. The tricky question would be what is the ONE thing you are sent back to fix?

A draft pick, Sale of the team (to ASG, to AOL/Time Warner), hiring or firing a coach or GM, trading D Wilkins

There are so many spots you could leap into for the Hawks.

BWAF

By RA

April 23, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

MannyT

Classic TV reference. One moment to go back to would be 1994/95. Hawks traded Domonique Wilkins and Doc Rivers for Danny Manning who blew them off the very next year… That started us down the dark road that we’re now trying desperately to get off of.

RA

By Volman

April 23, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Ray, great stuff!

I doubt those bean towners will be back any time soon!

By Danno

April 23, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

this picture sums up Mike Bibby:

Bibby got schooled

Mike Bibby is a sore loser, and a cry baby. He got schooled by Rondo again, and he couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn from 3 point range.

I think it’s funny that he talks about “bandwagon” Celtics fans, when last year the Celtics sold out 23 games, even though they set an NBA record for consecutive losses.

The Hawks didn’t sell out a single game last year. Great fans you’ve got there Atlanta. Keep giving Bibby your love. He’ll be playing in New Jersey next year.

By HB Ando

April 23, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Joe, I find sadness that a man with no less ego than his foil, admits defeat with faux yawns and feigned disregard, as if it somehow lifts his sense of self above all others. You remain prideful and bitter, unable to muster adequate and defensible counter points to the logical and well-articulated concerns that define this Hawks franchise, and its future.

Your pettiness simply frames your lack of consequence in the conversation. You are gradually fading from view, barely perceptible to the naked eye. Probably not unlike the last decade of your corporate career, tucked away in some corner cubicle, gathering dust and angrily mumbling at passers by.

By G-thang

April 23, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

i don�t understand why, at this level, guys are sayin�, �we need to come out and play hard.� i mean, i thought comin� out and playin� hard was automatic!! especially in the playoffs. jordan, kobe, barkley neva woulda made these comments.

after every hawks loss this year, they all said the same crap��they wanted it more than us��we weren�t hungry enuff���we got out played.�� i am sick of them and the coach. they all have hearts of a loser. no true killa� speaks this way, can you imagine jordan after losin� a game to the pistons in �89 sayin� we didn�t play hard enuff?

By Astro Joe

April 23, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

MannyT, no doubt. I’d settle for the “can’t get out of the 2nd round” tenure we had during the Steve Smith/Dikembe/Mookie days at this point. Or today’s Wizards squad.

But if I am going to hold up a franchise as a model, I think it should be one that has demonstrated some ability to do more than score a slew of points and not win the conference. But I recognize that most fans prefer glitzy players like Amare over blue collar guys like Duncan.

By newkid

April 23, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

In retrospect, to argue for selecting Marvin over C. Paul and Deron Williams is folly; to argue today in favor of the decision to select Shelden Williams at #5 is equally without foundation. But can’t the same be said for those 10-12 decisions of GMs who selected players ahead Kobe, and those GMs who selected two players before Jordan, and, well you get the point. It seems translating the skills of a college (or high school) player to the NBA is an art rather than a science; an art that quite a number of GMs find it impossible to master with a 100% level of efficiency. Clearly some have far more (or less) success than others, and some of the failures are much more blatant (particularly in retrospect) than others.

It seems that those who are less efficient at applying the art must be more aggressive and efficient at correcting their artLESSness through moving the mistakes through ‘deals’ hopefully with those of lesser wit, or those more capable of employing the ‘mistake’s’ talent within the framework of an alternate talent pool. Clearly moving Shelden was in a sense a noble attempt at correcting a miss-stroke of the artist’s paintbrush. It seems there should be a comparable effort this summer to ‘move’ the mistake that was Marvin. In the absence of a time machine, there’s not much more one can do. Certainly replacing the GM and his talent evaluation team should be on the table, but that in itself won’t fix the mistake. It will perhaps address future potential mistakes, but it won’t ensure that subsequent GMs won’t make similar gaffs (hopefully not as consistently).

Why not try Portland? The Blazers just lost Miles (a $9M per annum SF) to a career-ending knee injury. Coach McMillan says that in building the team for playoff runs over the next several years, the Blazers need to add experience. Portland has a lottery pick (likely 11, 12, or 13) as well as 3 picks in the 2nd round. Marvin in exchange for the late lottery pick plus Martell Webster might be just enticing enough to attract Portland’s interest. With Oden returning to play alongside a strong cast of PFs (Aldridge, etc), capable back-ups at center, and the rapidly emerging Brandon Roy @ SG, an experienced SF may be the one area Portland is looking to upgrade through a trade. Webster, provided his irregular heart-beat situation is of no lasting concern, could be a fairly compelling back-up to JJ. There’s also a real possibility that a legitimate center prospect will be available at the 11th, 12th, or 13th pick in this strong pivotman draft class (e.g., J. Magee).

Fix the Marvin mistake via a deal with Portland, bring in Anderson from the Russian league, add Diop’s salary by moving the serviceable Zaza to Seattle (for pick #24 or #32 and cash) on a one-year rental to add depth for the microfractured NBDL DPOY Sene, and continue to build around the core. Assuming Smoove would do a 5 year, $50 mil deal (starting @ $8 per annum), and Chilz would do a 4 year, $30 mil deal (starting at 6 mil per annum), a much improved sub-$66 mil full roster can be assembled even including the perpetually lame Speedy.

By Ryder

April 23, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

HB Astro Joe ray Najeh and all of you other blog neophytes pay attention!

While all of you are lamenting the Hawks future, it should be noted that if you look at the teams that are successful in the NBA (note: Phoenix is NOT one of them, they rely way too much on their offense to bail them out) what is it about the Spurs and Jazz that keeps them in contention?

Surprisingly it’s not all about talent. 1)they have no-nonsense coaches (Popovich and Sloan) who preach discipline and execution. 2)they have players who are taught how to play with intelligence first talent second. You can also add the Hornets now to that list.

Simply put these teams do not allow themselves to get rattled because their opponents get up by 17 points or go on a 10-0 run. Their coaches are still preaching execution and intelligence, maintaining composure and above all, one basket at a time.

If you wonder why the Suns and Wizards will never succeed in the NBA it’s because they lack the mentality it takes to win in May and June. They get flustered way too easily and their coaches lack the ability to keep them focused when they get punched in the mouth.

Now what does all of this have to dow with the Hawks? PLENTY. If anyone noticed Al Horford’s 20/10 effort on Sunday we should take note that HE is the future of this franchise. If Woodson was intelligent (I’ll wait til you stop laughing) then the smart move would be to call some plays in the paint and move Horford on screen and rolls so he can get some shots. Run the inside-outside game with him and JJ to see how the offense will flow. In the playoffs you need smart players who know what it takes to win. Right now the Hawks only have two guys who can do that.

Hmmm, I saw Horford hanging out with his fellow Dominican Big Papi. Again, winners associating with winners.

If i’m the ASG I take a long look at this series and ask: which players have the same drive and winner’s attitude like Horford? These are the guys I keep around.

Let’s take a look at each Hawks player and compare them to Horford to see if they can possess championship grit for the long term:

Josh Smith: NO. Too emotional and unable to execute offensively in the half court. Let him go.

Marvin: YES. Raw offensive talent and with more aggressiveness can become a threat one day in the playoffs.

JJ: YES. Able to push it up in the half court and get easier baskets if Horford got more plays.

BIBBY: NO. He works best in an up tempo offense where he is free to shoot more. He lacks the defensive ability to guard opposing PGs in the half court.

CHILDRESS; YES. Able to execute in the half court offense since he can move without the ball.

ACIE LAW; N/A. Incomplete due to lack of proper coaching/playing time SALIM: NO. ZAZA: NO. SOLOMON: YES. MARIO WEST: YES. You need guys who can play D in the half court. He will be a keeper.

Others like Jeremy Richardson will have to be examined later, but the ASG needs to realize that first and foremost this team needs players with a winner mentality first and leaders who can preach execution.

Then and only then will Atlanta become a true championship threat, not just some second round flameout!

By Volman

April 23, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Great thoughts, Ryder…

I’d have to say yes to Josh Smith and no to Marvin. I still think that Josh Smith has some intangibles that Marvin will never have.. Other than that, everything else looks good.

Hell, why not try Mario in the starting lineup on Allen or Pierce? Mario was put on Ron Artest (a big, strong guy) and I know he could D up Pierce or Allen… Atleast he could run around and use six fouls…

The Hawks need to KNOCK SOMEONE TO THE GROUND in game 2…

By doc

April 23, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

gee do you remember back when this blog was in its infacy there was a guy acting as a blog police person who came on and derided folks for being to long in their posts and often taking shots at me of all people for posts too long. durn i am terse by present standards. man where is that guy when we need him.

i also need to remind folks to break up their comments into segments and post more frequently, blog z doesnt get paid for length but by hits.

kidding a bit guys as it is all good with a lot of good comments. only problem is that it is so good here i dont have time to jump over to the dob blog to keep up with my bravos. oh well keep up the quality guys.

oh btw richie thinking about you if this is the day of your grand re-opening. hope it goes well. we will welcome you back to the liars table when well enough to spell it out. oh, we are liars here not denizens, blog z is our fearless leader.

now ryder we havent even finished the season and you have started the breakdown list for next year. geez, patience. heh heh agreed and said that the only thing that woody could do to change the outcome would be to go through horford for a 20/10 effort. i just think it happened by accident rather than by design.

By BA

April 23, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

“logical and well articulated”? Hardly. Try illogically pessimistic and switch “articulated” with long winded. It’s hardly logical to assume that a team is going to draft two young players and then let them walk four years later. Knight has even said that they will resign Smith and Childress. Yet everyday we read this guy’s repetitive misguided vitriol. And no matter how many times we discount it or disprove it, he reposts the same tired rhetoric. His only response is to dismiss opposing views as beneath him, as if they are lacking in the intelligence he so desperately craves. And now, having ignored all legitimate challenges to his negative, conspiracy-laden thesis, he declares himself the “Alpha” of this blog. Please. This is the guy who was scared to post during the Hawks playoff run because it certainly didn’t fit with his inexplicable dismissal of the enitire organization. Why would you bring a broom to your own home team’s playoff game? Are you really a Hawks fan? I tend to think Ando would gladly trade a shot at the NBA title for the chance to flap his buzzard wings and declare how right he was about the Hawks failures. Well I’ve got bad news for you, Alpha-ego. The Hawks made the playoffs and but for their incompetent coach would have won closer to fifty games this season. This “unbalanced roster” as you call it is the blueprint for a dynasty. Everybody stay tuned for his name-calling bitter response that will do nothing to refute the facts. Maybe he’ll call me “unwashed”. Or maybe, like he did with drmaryb, he’ll insult me and then turn around and kiss up to me when he sees I posted a compliment to him. Except there’s no compliment coming. Call me crazy, but it almost seems like “Ando” is some fictional character foil that Ray has created for entertainment purposes. If that’s the case, shame on me for taking the bait. But I can only read so much of this over-inflated false sense of self importance. Maybe he’ll break out his framed copy of his Leavenson e-mail, just to really put it on me. Hey Ando, are you capable of debating issues without kicking your feet and insulting your opponent? Doubtful.

By G-thang

April 23, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

newkid there is one problem that i have wit’ yo’ thesis. 1 of the two picked before Jordan was a hall of famer and as far as the 12 picked before kobe about half of them are garbarge

* 1. Allen Iverson Georgetown Philadelphia 2. Marcus Camby Massachusetts Toronto 3. Shareef Abdur-Rahim California Vancouver 4. Stephon Marbury Georgia Tech Milwaukee () 5. Ray Allen Connecticut Minnesota () 6. Antoine Walker Kentucky Boston 7. Lorenzen Wright Memphis LA Clippers 8. Kerry Kittles Villanova New Jersey 9. Samaki Walker Louisville Dallas 10. Erick Dampier Mississippi State Indiana 11. Todd Fuller North Carolina State Golden State 12. Vitaly Potapenko Wright State Cleveland 13. Kobe Bryant Lower Merion (PA) HS Charlotte*

i am sayin’ all of this to say that marvin is garbage and sheldon is garbage.

By BA

April 23, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Hey Doc, how come you never post Braves? I’d like to see it. I don’t know if I’m the critic you refer too, or if I had a predecessor. Got to admit, I’ve become quite fond of many of the long-winded bloggers I once roundly chastized, like yourself, Ray, RichBrave, CP, Jamison, etc. Even a dislexic-azz bandit can see the errors of his ways. Plus, that was before blogging had fully dug it’s claws into me like a crack rock addiction. Now I find myself submitting ridiculously long posts, like today, for example. Live and learn, I guess.

By Bravesfan79

April 23, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

I sure hope something good is on tv after halftime of the Hawks game. I have a feeling after Bibbys loud mouth the game will be well decided before the 3rd quarter starts.

By richbrave

April 23, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

O-o-o-h HB:

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

BA:

My man. All growed up and a bloggin’ fool. Rave on dude. Great mea culpa.

doc:

On hold until I finish this thesis. That’s when we set the date. Wife’s out of school after the 10th. Probably right after. Thanks for the boost. Gotta’ say I can’t wait to get both behind me.

RYDER:

Offense for show, defense for dough. Great post and analysis.

By HB Ando

April 23, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

So, BA, you are going on record as stating that the ASG will increase payroll to the necessary range of $68 million, from it’s current $54 million, to keep this roster intact. ‘Cause that was my “logical” point. And that’s the only way he can keep both Josh’s, based on reasonable assumptions about their market value as restricted free agents. Many folks, here, have continuously pounded the point that it’s the “broke-a*” ASG that is at fault for limiting Billy’s personnel decisions.

As I stated, I believe, logically, the standing theory that the ASG is at primary fault, do to limited spending, will be dissolved, should this roster remain intact, at around $68 million. OR, Billy was a liar when he said he was going to re-sign both Josh’s. Or, Bibby has to go create the necessary money to pay both Josh’s. Bibby and Johnson are on the books, for next season, at a combined $28 million.

It doesn’t get much more “logical” than simple math, as it relates to the team’s payroll, as it stands now, and as it would have to significantly increase to maintain the existing roster.

Please explain anything illogical about what I’ve just said. And show me which parts of it would qualify as vitriol.

I also defy you to find one example, anywhere, ever, where I’ve dismissed someone else’s point as beneath me. Your statement is an outright lie. What challenges have I ignored? Again, provide a concrete example.

Your representation of me, save for accurately describing me as long-winded, is absolute fiction.

It’s OK to say you don’t like what I write, or agree with my opinions. Or even say you don’t like me, even though you don’t know me. That’s one of the great things about an open forum, like this blog. But making up completely inaccurate representations of me seems like a waste of time.

I look forward to you finding one concrete example of me being proven wrong.

And look, BA, no name calling.

And if you weren’t smart enough to know that the “Alpha” comment was a joke, you might want to drink a beer and loosen up.

Man am I glad that Ray had time to post this and pretend to be me. That may be one of the dumbest things ever posted on this blog.

By mykhalc

April 23, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

DOC, everythin’ with WOODSON is an accident. well i will give him credit for one thing tho…i DO think he intended to shave his head!!!

By fudd21

April 23, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

NewKid The two players picked before Jordan was Hakeem and Bowie. Heck Hakeem is a Hall of Famer. Bowie was selected because the year before the Blazers had just drafted Clyde the Glide. Who basically played the same position and very similiar to Jordan. Most GM’s try to build a balanced roster, (unlike BK) not stock pile the same type of player and hope the coach can make them gel.

As for Koby well its really hit and miss with a lot of the high school players. Especially back then only KG had come out the year before and I think alot of GM’s were skeptical of drafting a high school gueard.

As far as Smooth signing 5 years for 50 mil I really dont see that happening. He turned down 5 years for 45 mil this summer. Someone please correct me if Im wrong. But I don’t think you turn a deal down for 1 extra mil a year.

Ryder I think you are dead on about who to keep. I will say again Josh doesn’t have the skills to play the 3 (No handles, no shooting ability, bad decisions) and he doesn’t want to commit to playing the 4. Also, I think Big Al is the keeper of the 2 and if we resign Josh to 10 - 12 mill where will the money come from for Big Al.

NewKid I like the idea of trying to trade with Portland, but I would go after Outlaw. He’s long, athletic, can shoot and go to the hole. If we can trade Marvin for him I would do that in a heartbeat.

Joe said at the beginning of the year we need help.. i.e I (joe) need help. I’m afraid if we dont get him help he will be inclined to leave. We need another scorer/shooter who can take the pressure off Joe and stop all the double and triple teams. If you dont make a team pay the double teaming will continue. When Bibby is on he makes the opposition pay, but that happens 1 of out every 4 games. We need a quality 3 that can shoot the 3 and also go to the whole. Another go-to-guy.

Think about it. All the teams that are contending for championships have at least 2 go-to-guys. Heck Boston has 3 and if you count Sam thats 4. We have 1 thats Joe. Even though Sir Charles says we have none. We will not contend for a championship until we add another.

By fudd21

April 23, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

People what is BK supposed to say. NO, we aren’t going to resign the Joshes. That’s all part of it. Thats why we paid what we did for Joe. If we knew Phoenix wasn’t going to resign we wouldn’t have givne up that much. Whether his intentions are to not sign or resign them, you have to say and act like you are.

In regrds to the payroll Ando is right. If the Joshes receive market value then we are at 68 mil which is above the salary cap. Marvin and Big Al will still be playing on the rookie deals. No way you can do that and expect to give Marvin and Big Al what they are worth when the time comes. Plus I don’t think you up the payroll to $68 mil for a non-contending team.

By richbrave

April 23, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Yo BA:

Make mine B and B (preferably Wild Turkey) Thank you.!!

By WOODY Please RUN!!!!!

April 23, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Youth has 1 Advantage and we have to use it!! RUNNNING. We have to score 110 and up to beat the Celts. Impossible?? Maybe. But losing by 25 30 points sure isnt. 100% EFFORT of pushing the ball to the RIM!!! PUSHHH THE DAMNNN BALLLL. COME ON HAWKS!!!!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 23, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

My list of keepers on this roster would go like this, in order: 1. Al Horford. 2. Joe Johnson. 3. Josh Smith. 4. Nobody.

I have no problem with y’all finding fault with J-Smoove’s game. His handles are subpar and although I think his shot can become reliable, it’s on him to put in the work to make it that way. The fact still remains he is one of the best help defenders in the league, an above average passer for a forward, a very good rebounder, and does not need plays run for him to contribute positively. If he’s the 3rd best player on your team (which he will be in a couple of years once Horford establishes himself as the next Elton Brand) you are in pretty good shape.

Marvin, on the other hand, is interchangeable with about 50 other players in this league, none of whom were picked #2 overall. You could trade him for Wally Szczerbiak, Andres Nocioni, Travis Outlaw, Charlie Villanueva, etc. and if anything the Hawks would be better, not worse. To be honest, you could trade him for a late teens/early 20s pick in this draft and pick Chase Budinger and you probably wouldn’t get too much worse if at all. If 18-foot jumpers counted 20 points each, Marvin would be a Hall of Famer, but that’s all he can do. If you’re gonna criticize Josh Smith, please don’t big up Marvin in the same post, because it just discredits your entire argument.

By HB Ando

April 23, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Over the years, a lot of time and energy has been expended, here, with suggestions of viable trade scenarios which would have both improved the balance of this team, and which were completely unlikely, given Billy’s lack of skill.

2 years ago, Portland had a big gaping hole at the 3. Before we drafted Shelden, I was a proponent of offering Portland the #5 and Childress (a local product and a “need” player for them, at the time), for the pick we would have used to get Aldridge (who I had promoted for the full year, between the Marvin draft and the Shelden draft, as the player who would really fit here), and Jarret Jack.

Two years later, folks are still offering up reasonable ideas for ways to trade parts of this roster to balance it out. If we re-sign both Josh’s, then Bibby is likely a goner. If that’s the case, then we gave up a #5, an early 2nd rounder (the one Billy wasted to bring in AJ for a playoff run that never had a remote chance), and two expiring contracts that could have created cap space.

This was done purely for marketing reasons, as “renting” Bibby got us the 8th seed, and allowed the franchise to spin that this is the beginning of something great. But if Bibby goes, and everyone else stays, so that we can re-sign the Josh’s, then we’re right were we were before Bibby arrived, and we still don’t currently have any draft picks this summer.

So, with Bibby, we’re a 37-win team and the 8th seed, looking at a 4-and-out against the Celtics. And unless we can move Bibby and his the last year of his $14 million salary, for either a lottery pick (doubtful), or a younger PG with immediate upside, we’ve simply taken one step forward and two steps back, all so the ASG can tell the fans that we’re on our way to the promised land, while jacking ticket prices up 25%.

It would certainly be helpful if David Stern would bestow the same injury-related cap relief, for the Hawks as it applies to Speedy, as he did for Portland, and Miles. That $6 million could make a big difference.

All I’m saying is there are a ton of tough issues that have to be resolved this summer, and it’s virtually implausible that everyone here, who is part of the regular rotation, will still be here come next fall. Will whomever leaves bring solid replacement value, or simply end up being a salary dump? That question, as much as any other, will define which direction this franchise is headed, going into next season.

I don’t see how asking these questions, or making these points, translates to me being a hater. But for those of you who are fixated on me as the villian, you’re going to believe what you want to believe.

At least until the future decisions bear these concerns out.

By Najeh Davenpoop

April 23, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

And the reason I didn’t mention Childress as a keeper in my previous post is because of the salary situation everyone is pointing out. Childress is a valuable player but not to this team at $6 million a year when he won’t be starting. Both he and Marvin are most valuable as trade pieces, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if one or both of them is traded before the draft for a draft pick which then gets used on a small forward.

If you build around the three players I mentioned and get a coach who’s not a complete idiot you will have a contending team as soon as Horford realizes his potential. Yeah, winning takes discipline, not just talent, I agree. But all the teams that are winning because of great discipline also have great talent too. You can’t win in the NBA without talent, period.

By BA

April 23, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

A team in the playoffs, by definition, is in contention.

By BA

April 23, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

For the record, I certainly don’t dislike you (because how do you dislike someone you’ve never met?) I’m sure you’re a pleasant enough person. I’ve also seen nothing you’ve posted that would qualify you to classify ME as “Dumb”. Or something I posted as “dumb”. As I predicted, your response is laden with innacurate insults. And a steady diet of repetition. This is like taking candy from a baby…

By doc

April 23, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

myk, a real good belly laugh. i think maybe we are the alpha jesters and merely jesting as i say it.

ba it is all fun. i might scrap a bit in the dob blog only it really does get too much. have to do the serious scroll. i really like dob and have met up with him at ella guru which if you like a shop that sys music like back in the day that is the only place to go. oh yeah, no it wasnt referring to you as it was a guy way back at the beginning of this blog who wandered off maybe soiled on by someone here. finally i know both ando and ray and have talked simultaneously to them at the same time i the same conversation. if there arent two of them ray is a metaphysical wizzard.

folks we will sign both guys. it is a sure thing and i will take any bet otherwise. now what will happen after they are signed as in a sign and trade is another thing? bk can say we will sign them both and be truthful as BK ISNT SAYING SIGN AND KEEP THEM BOTH now is he?

ok, i lied i am not a betting man but it was to make a point, the alpha boy taught me how to do it.

By doc

April 23, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

myk, a real good belly laugh. i think maybe we are the alpha jesters and merely jesting as i say it.

ba it is all fun. i might scrap a bit in the dob blog only it really does get too much. have to do the serious scroll. i really like dob and have met up with him at ella guru which if you like a shop that sys music like back in the day that is the only place to go. oh yeah, no it wasnt referring to you as it was a guy way back at the beginning of this blog who wandered off maybe soiled on by someone here. finally i know both ando and ray and have talked simultaneously to them at the same time i the same conversation. if there arent two of them ray is a metaphysical wizzard.

folks we will sign both guys. it is a sure thing and i will take any bet otherwise. now what will happen after they are signed as in a sign and trade is another thing? bk can say we will sign them both and be truthful as BK ISNT SAYING SIGN AND KEEP THEM BOTH now is he?

ok, i lied i am not a betting man but it was to make a point, the alpha boy taught me how to do it.

By BA

April 23, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

To answer your series of questions, you clearly ignored Manny T yesterday when he called you out in similar fashion. That qualifies as an “ignore”. The half-baked theory of letting both Smith and Childress walk after their rookie deals expire was, is, and would be ILLOGICAL. Trading for Bibby and letting him leave is ILLOGICAL. Trading Marvin, a twenty-two year old player that you drafted second overall to Portland for ANYTHING is illogical. And yes. I will go on record. Both players will be back next year. And to go even further, if they are not, I won’t be. And I’ve been a Hawks fan for twenty years. To let either one of these young players leave before they realize their full potential would be foolish.

By richbrave

April 23, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

O-o-o-h BA:

Punch, counter-punch. Where’sClyde when you need him.

Hey ray:

What you got to say about this signing and raising payroll vs. sign and trade vs. not sign and walk.?

I’m a-tither with anticipation. I can really learn something here about the machinations of finance in the NBA. Oops, gotta’ go now, but I’ll be scrollin’ ya’. Later.

By fudd21

April 23, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

Najeh You are probably right in that Chillz is not worth 6 mil per. I actually would like to keep him though because I think he is one of the better 6th men in the league and knows and plays his role perfectly.

However, I beleive that Smoove is more valuable as a trade piece than Marvin simply because he will bring more in return. I mean someone that has skills to help now. No more draft picks. I could see us doing a sign and trade for someone like RJ and Diop from Jersey for Smoove and then moving Marvin to the bench.

I like Smoove alot and wish we could keep the hometown product, but if Big Al is who we are building around at the 4, I don’t think Smoove compliments him at the 3. The handles, shooting, and decision making just arent there. Yea the week side defense is great, but if he has to guard 3’s on a nightly basis I don’t know if his on ball defense will hold on. This is his 4th year of playing 30 minutes a game and the shot still is suspect. Now I agree that shooting is definitely something you can work on and improvee but there hasnt been any improvement yet. So is he not putting in the work or is the touch just not there?

By Sweet 17

April 23, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

Hey Bibby at least we have fans! You’re just jealous cause the Hawks don’t have any! Until the playoffs I didn’t realize the Hawks were still in the league! Three games left in your season pal. Oh yeah how’s your Dad doing??

By fudd21

April 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Why are you people from Boston posting on a Hawks blog? Don’t you have your own blog to post on????

By jami$$ion

April 23, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

a najeh chills is going to recieve far more than 6mil.That is insult money.Speedy gets more than and t lue gets not far from it.Fudd NJ a do that trade with no hesitation.RJ is athleticism with no D at all.And diop is a ok back up center.I like al & smoove down low is way more effective than al & diop.Then what do u do with chills & marv,cuz rj is the starter.

By SilverShadow

April 23, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Kudos to Al Horford for dining with Big Poppy. That is exactly what you do when you want to win - you hang around winners and through association you will learn how to win. Al “Roy” Horford is incredibly poised to be just a rookie but he is a phenominal leader at such a young age, a terrific player and I am hopeful that the people who are evaluating the new rookies in the league will give Al Horford his just due by giving him the “rookie of the year trophie” because he has more than earned it and is a much better player than Kevin Durant. I am 150% positive the Hawks will eliminate Boston and move on to the second round to play the next opponent. Go Hawks!

By newkid

April 23, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

fudd21 I take your point regarding Hakeem and Bowie, but I’d guess that both Houston and Portland - in retrospect - would have chosen Jordan over the these two. Maybe neither was a ‘mistake’ at the time of the draft, but surely neither became the game’s best player EVER. How knew? Likewise there aren’t likely many GMs from the Kobe class, if they still have a smidgen of sanity, if given a do over, who would have selected any of those 12 chaps before Kobe. But again, who knew?

We have the benefit now (in my opinion) of fairly good hindsight as it relates to Marvin. He was a mistake for us, but hopefully not one that can’t be fixed. We should wish him well while we try and obtain better pieces. So you say Outlaw & the pick would be preferable. Maybe. My Webster logic is rooted in the my notion that JJ is an evolving SF in the mold of Boston’s Paul Pierce. Joe keeps adding muscle and bulk he’ll resemble Pierce in a year or so. If Webster can indeed develop, and JJ extends, you’ve got a SG and SF who would have several years on the floor together before long. Outlaw at the SF prevents Joe’s transition to what I believe will soon be a more natural position for him. Also, if we move Marvin and retain Smoove, I’d like to see us try a SF/PF combination of Smoove/Horford for awhile next year.

But to Ando’s point, do we really want BK with the scalpel when he was the surgeon on duty when the Marvin AND Sheldon AND Salim (over Monta) operations were performed? I’m not sure I could fault the parents and siblings for screaming for a different doctor after those disfigurations.

By StormChaser

April 23, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

MESSAGE FOR WOODY Dont forget to give Salim Stoudemire his deserved minutes tonight against Boston. Salim could be your difference maker in tonights game and could be the difference between (giving Salim his minutes) and tying the series at 1-1 or (not giving Salim any minutes) and going down 0-2 in the series against Boston. Duh, what are you going to do Mr. Woody Woodpecker?

By terrell barron

April 23, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

My buddy is in town from Milwaukee. Guess what his first words were? I cant beleive we passed on Paul for Bogut. That made me feel a little better. We’re not alone!

By G-thang

April 23, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

jami$$ion we are in trouble next year, wit’ no picks. a good gm could pimp the situation, but i am worried about billy handlin’ this. i mean we knew 1 week before the draft that he was draftin’ shelden. WTF!! why let that out the bag.

i can’t trust billy to handle the joshes for somethin’ in return. can’t trust him wit’ marvin and who knows what he will do wit’ bibby.

you heard anythin’ bout craig claxton (refuse to call him speedy)

when is jj contract up? i’m sure that he wants outta here!!

mitch kupcheck “pimped” that thang, so did ainge!! billy is the laughin’ stock

By MannyT

April 23, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

New Blog Up

BWAF

By Astro Joe

April 23, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Ando, didn’t Chill grow up in Southern Cali and go to school in the Bay area? How does Portland fit into “local” status? Does that same geography make Dwight Howard a “local” kid for Orlando? And I’m still trying to figure out the logic that retaining BK was done to avoid lost ticket sales. What GM moves would the ticket-buying marketplace expect from late February - June 30? (Oh yeah, the Jeremy Richardson deal… that had to bring in a few thousand incremental fans). And the PJ Brown clone looked good the other night, didn’t he?

Oops, by bad, I probably instigated another 5,000 word response. Never mind.

By fudd21

April 23, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Jamison Let me start by saying I like Josh and Horford where they are now. But I don’t think Josh is sold on the idea of playing the 4 and wants to be a 3. I propose that deal because so many on here say we need a center and to move Smoove to the 3. SO as opposed to moving Smoove to the 3 which I think would be a huge mistake for reasons Ive stated earleir I would prefer to get a real 3.

With that being said I would do the deal in a heartbeat. IMHO we need another scorer and I think RJ would give us that. We could run the offense through him and he would take alot of pressure of Joe. Marvin and Chillz would come off the bench. Marvin not ready for prime time yet, even though I think he could develop into 20 point scorer. With JJ, RJ, and AL, we wouldnt need our center to score just rebound and clog the middle. Heck I could care less who it is I just said Diop as I have seen his name mentioned here before.

Newkid Hinsight is a b*** aint it. If I knew she was gone act a fool on me I never would have taken her out. LOL! My point is that I can see the reason the GM did what they did. I never did understand why BK did what he did. Center and PG are the hardest positions to fill. So you draft someone (Marvin) based solely on potential who duplicates what you already have 3 times over in Chillz, Smoove, and Harrington. While you pass on CP, who many said was the next Isaih, and Deron who many compared to Jason Kidd with a jumpshot when you have no PG on your roster. Remember now Lue started for us the year before. So I couldn’t understand that move. FIRE BILLY

As for Webster doesn’t he play the 3 for Portland. I thought he started next to Roy on the wing. I think they both are 3’s but I believe Outlaw is better, better defender, better driver, and more athletic. As for JJ sliding over, heck I don’t know. I just know he is the best player we have had in a while and if the man says he needs help them by golly we need to get him help!

By HB Ando

April 23, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

BA, it would be a full-time job if I responded to every person, here, who references either me or one of my posts. So, as a matter of practicum, choosing not to engage every single reference has absolutely nothing to do with avoidance, and everything to do with having a life. Your 3:24 post simply reinforces my point. You didn’t address a single objectifiable point. And you confused my calling your suggestion that I am Ray, as a dumb comment, with me calling you dumb.

Again, please outline what you refer to as “inaccurate insults” from my post. Try to be specific.

I have never, once, suggested that the Hawks should let either of the Josh’s walk. For years, I have highlighted the concept of players as assets, or interchangeable parts. The Hawks, lacking any draft picks, and much quality on their bench, can’t afford to let ANYONE “walk” (which goes as far back as Billy getting less than optimal value for Al Harrington). But, again, unless you believe the ASG will agree to a $68 million payroll next year (a point you continue to fail to address, as you don’t have any type of reasonable response to its implications), at least one, if not more, players will have to be moved.

I do not believe Josh Smith is one of them. I believe that the most likely candidates would be Bibby (so that Smith’s likely $11-12 million salary would be offset by the elimination of Bibby’s $14 million obligation), Childress (who is quite likely to receive an offer sheet for starters’ money, which we cannot match, given that he projects to be our 6th man for the foreseeable future), or, if we choose to pay Childress a premium, Marvin, who may still be viewed as having the upside of a recent #2, overall, pick, despite lots of evidence that he’ll never live up to those expectations.

The core of this team looks to be Josh Smith, Joe Johnson and Al Horford. Everyone else will either be a casualty of budgetary limitations, or an asset to be used in trade, to balance out those 3 core players, while maintaining whatever subjective “cap” the ASG imposes on the front office (here’s a clue: it’s not going to be $68 million.

The one caveat remains whether the ASG is absolutely confident that Joe Johnson intends to re-sign here, when his contract expires, in TWO years. Because without that behind the scenes commitment, then there’s an argument that he could ultimately be traded (he is the same guy who publicly told the Suns he did not want to play for them and that he did not want them to match our offer sheet).

So enough with the nonsense that anyone is suggesting the Hawks should let young talent walk. Almost every Hall-of-Famer, in the history of the NBA, was either traded, at some point, or changed teams via free agency. Changes to this roster are thus inevitable. And those changes will either move the Hawks forward, or set them back, depending on financial limitations and/or whether someone more competent than Billy is making the moves; say, Homer Simpson).

And so it’s not all about Ando, the Billy-hater, let’s consider Newkid’s question of whether we really want BK making these decisions.

I’ll leave that as a rhetorical question…………

By drmaryb

April 23, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

Hey RichBrave

what’s goin’ on with them’ wizards, looks like the Hawks are following suit - with the trash talking - which I love!

Whatever, it takes to get fired up - just do it! make buckets!

Somebody on this team needs to show some life & compete with these boys - they’re a beatable as ever?

(Sounds Like a Tiger Woods Challenge - huh?)

Hey ray-star and doc and Alpha-Ando (New & Improved and more Nastier than Ever! - Alpha Ando!)

Hey, we don’t need no Losers in this town - We need a WINNER!

By Danno

April 24, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

WHERE IS BIBBY? clap clap clap clap clap

RONDO’S BETTER!!! clap clap clap clap clap

That’s right, bibby got owned even harder last night.

Atlanta Sucks. Just plain Sucks. They should be in the D-League. Al Horford dancing after making a layup and getting an And 1, when they’re Down by 17! Ha!

Better get all your dancing in now. You’re not getting out of the first round.

I smell a Sweep.

By SilverShadow

April 25, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Please folks, dont despair. You can rest assured that the Hawks wont get swept. Youve been asking where is Mike Bibby. Well Bibby is entitled to slump as is every NBA player who has ever played basketball. But I can tell you from watching Bibby when he played for the Sacramento Kings that when Bibby shows up his numbers will ring out resoundingly: i.e. 40 points (10 three pointers and 10-10 at the free throw line) along with 17 assists. THOSE NUMERS ARE EASY FOR BIBBY TO ACCOMPLISH. Remember: when Bibby is right he is capable of leading his team to the NBA finals. Now, I hope you all who keep playhating on Bibby will have learned his value to the Hawks and the NBA from my BLOG on Mike Bibby. In addition, when Bibbys shot is falling he is capable of hitting 10 consecutive three pointers without ever hitting the rim. Hes a marvelous talent and you will know how great he is if the Hawks upset the Celtics by winning four out of the next five games against Boston. Bibby is nothing short of spectactular WHEN HE IS ON!

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August 11, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

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August 13, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

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December 5, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

Вот это да… Это финиш… По-видимому пора бы расслабиться и отдохнуть :)

By LanseloT

December 26, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Познавательно написано. А это все на основе личного опыта?Позвольте поинтересоваться :)

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December 27, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

В нашем офисе так нудно было, хорошо что нашел ваш сайт. Читаю с интересом:)

By alikos

January 5, 2009 11:26 AM | Link to this

Интересная статья, кстати автору хочу предложить установить от яндекс.денег полезную фишку на сайт “Дай рубль”. Я бы дал, так сказать на поддержание. ;)

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January 16, 2009 2:55 AM | Link to this

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January 28, 2009 2:25 PM | Link to this

Да уж, автор блога действительно добрый и отзывчивый человек. Спасибо :)

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February 3, 2009 2:11 AM | Link to this

Жесть! Конечно, забавно наблюдать , когда в считанные часы совершенно практически без повода из пальца высасывается подобный “новостной сюжет” и начинает широко гулять по блогам. :)

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February 5, 2009 8:13 PM | Link to this

Большое спасибо:) Классная тема, пишите чаше - у вас отлично получается :)

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February 9, 2009 2:41 AM | Link to this

{Читаю {ваш|этот|} блог, и понимаю, что {ничего|нифига} не понимаю. Все так запутано. :)

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February 27, 2009 8:50 AM | Link to this

В очередной раз благодарю, хорошие что есть такие люди как вы, которые дают реально полезные советы:)

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February 28, 2009 1:53 AM | Link to this

Да… Мне действительно близка обсуждаемая тема! Даже грустно как-то :(

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March 10, 2009 11:14 PM | Link to this

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March 27, 2009 6:41 PM | Link to this

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March 29, 2009 4:46 AM | Link to this

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