Hawks

By Chikara

March 22, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Hey guys! I’m not sure what’s going to happen from this point on, but then again that’s why they play the games.

I don’t care if Atlanta has to make the playoffs because NJ loses most of their games, just so as long as Atlanta makes the playoffs.

Let’s just hope that they can remember they have to play in the 3rd quarter as well as the others.

By Don!

March 22, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

Can’t we just fire Woody now?

I used to believe in this team, but as they’re currently constructed and coached — they’re the Tin Men of the East.

No Heart.

None.

They should be able to play D. They don’t. They should be able to run and score. They don’t.

No one’s being held accountable, not the coaches, the players, the management — and certainly not the owners.

I think that’s the key. When you have owners that care and have heart — it runs through the rest of the organization. In this case, our owners don’t care and have no heart for this team. They’re just an expensive toy and tax write off.

Can fans force an ownership change? I wish we could. We deserve a better on court team than the one we have. A team, that like Atlanta — has heart.

This one doesn’t. And as far as pro basketball goes — I think this team has broken my heart.

Sincerely,

Don!

By Daniel

March 22, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

Don’t feel too bad Sekeu. I picked the Hawks to win the division (with a better record than 40 wins) way back when….how stupid do I feel?

Look y’all, its like this: They make the playoffs and have a few extra games or they don’t. Either way this is all just symptomatic of a greater problem: The Organisation.

By DarkRyder

March 22, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Once again Atlanta is having problems holding on to the basketball! As usual whenever a team starts taking the Hawks seriously Atlanta is unable to answer. They get shaky with the ball and forget how to shoot, pass, or do anything that resembles professional basketball.

Tonight is no exception. Atlanta jumps out to a 14 point lead and what happens, Orlando gets on a small run and the Hawks get skittish.

I think Atlanta’s best chance to make the playoffs is for New Jersey to completely blow it, because Atlanta has no concept on how to play winning basketball.

By MannyT

March 22, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Watching the Hawks is like riding a roller coaster in a park that didn’t pass inspection. It will definitely have its ups and downs. You just hope the ride ends in a good place and doesn’t jump off the track.

This is interesting, but I’ve got to get my March Madness fix this weekend.

By DarkRyder

March 22, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

Just as I figured, they can’t figure out how to hold on to the ball and now Orlando has a 1 point lead at halftime.

Oh well I guess there’s the good news that they can’t blow this lead in the 3rd quarter.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 22, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

Watching Zaza Pachulia play brings up a key question: Is Mamadou N’Diaye available in free agency?

By Chikara

March 22, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

So far they are hanging in there with the Magic, this game is theirs to take, all they had to do is hold on to the basketball and they’ll be alright!

Looks like Vince Carter is actually playing like he cares which means NJ will pull off this one….Hawks need to win!

By ray

March 22, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Matt, got your reply from the last blog. I should’ve specified that Marvin’s status as a guy off the bench should’ve been a note of caution, not a red flag. I just never saw the guy as being all THAT GREAT. I wish the kidd had that killer instinct.

All the same, my head hurts and my stomach aches with each accolade and dazzling performance from Chris Paul. And seeing this guy being so seriously considered for NBA MVP..in his 4th season, no less…really, really hurts.

And we’re losing to Orlando. Like any truly involved fan, we live and die with each play, each loss, each win. Hoping we fall into the playoffs by default is no way to live though, man..

By Matt

March 22, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

Why the HELL did Smith just shoot a 3-pointer when there was 10 on the clock and when we’re only up by 3???

My god…

By SalimFan

March 22, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

YYEEEEESSS!!!! I’m actually excited to watch hawks live for once. I was about to have a full on rag session about Bibby but he got hot in the fourth.

By hawksfanfordawin

March 22, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

We Win~!!~!~~!!!!

By Chikara

March 22, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

It pays to have one of the East’s best backcourts, and what did I say about the Hawks winning if they simply held on to the ball? They did in the 4th quarter and as a result took care of business.

Al Horford MUST be the ROY after his 20th double-double of the year, but it’s like Rathburn said tonight the media wants Durant to win in order to make the Oden-Durant rivalry look good and all they care about are the points. It’s ridiculous if Horford doesn’t win the award, especially when Atlanta makes the playoffs!

Atlanta manned up tonight, and got a big win. Great effort by the backcourt, and great job by the guys to not get skittish DarkRyder and win against one of the East’s best!

Looks like I was wrong about NJ, and Atlanta’s looking at a 1.5 lead in the playoff race with a couple of easier games against Chicago and Milwaukee. Let’s keep it going Hawks!

Ciao ;)

By randy

March 22, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Hawks just tied their wins from last year. Woody has 9 lives, guess he will be back next year.

By preston

March 22, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Very good win by the hawks…….if jj and Bibby can give us that backcourt combination in leadership and scoring on most nights, this team can be very fun to watch…..and yeah Jsmoove took a bad three at the end, but he played a pretty good game himself tonight. OK….I will give Woodson some credit tonight for keeping Childress in the game as opposed to Marvin……Childress just plays consistently on both sides of the court, and I think that he has earned his right to be on the floor in the end of the games, Marvin is what he is at this point….a good perimeter shooter, and nothing much else….when Marvin is on then he is the x-factor of the team (meaning that he will never lead or take over games, but he can make a difference), but when he is off, he does absolutely nothing else…I still think that Woody needs to use his bench more…..but, a win is a win!!

By JohnGTFan

March 22, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

chikara

You’re right…Durant will win, and certainly NOT because he’s deserving. But you know what…I don’t think Horford cares. I think he’d be more than happy to let KD have that honor while he’s in the playoffs!!!!!!

By Melvin

March 22, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

It wasn’t pretty but Just Win Baby…

By SalimFan

March 22, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

SEKOU no………hell no I hate this stuff. having to worry about the hawks winning every night is gonna give us all ulcers. if we were 20 games over .500 then maybr. I’d much rather worry about the hawks competing for the fourth spot rater than the eighth.

But with Chicago on the horizon and the nets two games behind us………I guess it’s bittersweet. Now I can enjoy everyone chasing us B/c we have a little cushon. As long as the Hawks dont mess this up i’m pretty sure we can all stay ulcer-free while enjoying a little rivalry.

OOOOHH!!!! SPOTLIGHT JOE JOHNSON AFTER THE GAME. EVERYBODY WATCH IT!!!

……..MAN I’M IN A GOOD MOOD.

By Matt

March 22, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Ray, I feel you. Trust me, it pains me too having to watch CP3 putting up MVP numbers while Marvin is increasingly relegated to being our 4th, 5th, or sometimes 6th option. But you know as well as I do that the modern GM drafts for long-term potential, and killer instinct or no (and I agree that it’s “no” in Marvin’s case), I seriously don’t think you would have found more than 1 or 2 GMs in the league who would have passed up Marvin at #2 - and those would probably have tried to trade down instead of ‘wasting’ the pick on Deron or Paul. Just check the draft grades from SI and NBADraft.net and you’ll see what I mean.

In any case, JJ again came through huge tonight. All the haters out there have a lot less to hate about - in a huge game against the #3 seed, he scored 34 - including 14 in the 4th - and got 7 dimes. The best part about tonight, though was Al and Zaza keeping Howard under control, and Al’s huge offensive rebound at the end to ice the game. That boy has “it” - that intangible thing that makes a winner.

The second quarter aside, there were so many promising signs tonight from our players. They came up huge in the 4th and won the frontcourt battle (44 to 36 on the boards!) in a game against (IMHO) the best center in the NBA. As I said, I have a feeling Woodson has let Bibby and JJ take over the reins, and the results are showing.

I gotta withhold props from Smoove because he made a couple of dumb moves in the fourth (blown defensive switch on that Hedo 3 in the last minute, and lofting an ill-advised 3 of his own a minute before that). But three big cheers for JJ, Al, and Bibby tonight.

By BA

March 22, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

I for one am sick of being worried about next year and the last two years. I don’t believe in the “fools gold” concept around here. Yeah I watch games. The Eastern conference is awful. I still want my team in the playoffs. I’m over who we didn’t draft. I’m not convinced Knight is the next Jerry West, but this is a nice roster. Joe played the game of his life defensively, as did Hortford. Doc, I worried about the perimeter defense myself. Good news, though, Orlando misssed a LOT of those three pointers. And as far as that leadership thing, anybody spot Bibby taking control of the huddle late in the game? This is a very good veteran back court. I know, it’s not Paul and Roy, but it’s solid.

By DecDawg

March 22, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

I have to give JJ credit for his defense in tonight’s game. He challenged shots and played good position D…much better JJ!!

By Mike 912

March 22, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

When does Marvin Williams start being considered a bust? 4 Points from the 2nd overall pick. He is not of Andrey Bruce’s magnitude but he is up there.

By Chikara

March 22, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

One more point that warrants mentioning….have you noticed how Woodson has shortened his bench as we wind up the regular season? In the past few games he has sat Marvin down earlier and brought in Childress? JChill has responded with great hustle, defense and scoring. Also, Zaza has been getting more playing time as well as Acie in short spurts.

That tells me that he understands the reality of Atlanta closing in on the playoffs and treating each game like it’s their last.

It doesn’t matter who they drafted or didn’t draft, I remember some people who were complaining about the Hawks drafting Horford instead of Yi, how did that one work out?

The bottom line is that the draft is not an exact science. What if the Blazers had drafted Durant instead of Oden? In other words let’s stop with all of the “he should’ve been drafted by the Hawks” talk and focus on the fact this team is on the cusp of the postseason.

By Joe Bling

March 22, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

Blown defensive switch and ill-advised three? Did anyone see the play where we were trying to protect a three-point lead and somehow, stupidly, the pass goes to J SMOOOOOVE? He spins and twists into the lane and passes the ball behind his back through three defenders. Except, you can’t pass a ball through three NBA defenders. Naturally, the first defender intercepts the ball and Orlando has the ball back. The craziest thing about the play was that there was NOT A SINGLE HAWK who would have been there to receive the pass in the first place. He was trying to make a rec-league pass to NO ONE! This was a critical point of the game - when the Hawks really needed to run some clock. Of course, about the same time our boy J SMOOOOOVE hoists a ridiculous three that promptly turned into a layup for Orlando.

What is this guy doing? Is he just stupid? I really wonder. My god, this team is out busting its butt all night and is scrapping to hold onto a thin lead, and this clown is running around acting like it’s JV time. I know there are a lot of people on this board who worship Mr. SMOOOOOVE, but I have to say I wouldn’t miss him if the Hawks decided not to resign him. I’ll miss his defense, but I don’t think it makes up for the damage he wreaks on the offensive end. The guy needs to grow a brain.

By joshfan

March 22, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

I hope Josh doesn’t resign. Yeah he made a couple of mistakes but you complaining fans are incredible. He also had 19pts and 9 reb. Talk about the key block on Bogans and pass to Childress. I wouldn’t want to stay here with you fairweather fans. Matt and Jo Bling, why are you not complaining about Marvin? He also held Rashard Lewis to 14pts and 30fg%. I agree he made dumb plays but the hate on this board is sickening.

By doc

March 22, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

yeah ba we dodged a bullet. dare i say we are now on a roll with a “streak” of 4 of the last five. seems that is right if memory serves still. got to check the magnet schedule on the fridge to see what comes next. just taking it one day at a time.

rich bro, trust me on this one. go out tomorrow and find a product called CoQH-CF. take at least 400 to 500 mg a day for three weeks the back off to 150 -200. look it up on the website for allergyresearchgroup.com. read the october newsletter. the data is huge for this stuff to help folks in full blown chf to parkinson’s.

now to watch ucla for the first time this year to see if they deserve their press. havent had the interest to follow college since we aint drafting and it is pretty dilute nowadays.

By SalimFan

March 22, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

…………without josh smith we wouldn’t be talking about the playoffs right now so be grateful. How about that NASTY dunk he had in the first half?

Josh had 19 points and nine rebounds. Almost a double-double. And other than that crucial time he was perfect. No stupid jump shots or anything. How about the block on Keith Bogans? Or the one he had on Howard?

Why must you turn a positive into a negative? Almost every three the magic put up was severly contested by the hawks. Exellent defense by the Hawks. Stop haitin’…..at least for tonight. I could see if we played poorly and still managed to get a win.

If LeBron was on our team and he took that shot would you be mad? Josh has hit clutch threes before. The game was not even on the line. Nor was the lead for that matter.

By johnny

March 22, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

YES SIR!

Al Horford is the man, 2 or 3 years from now: Lamarcus Aldridge, Al Jefferson, Okafor, and the rest of these young bigs will have NOTHING on my boy Al Horford. He’s hungry, talented, big, athletic, got great hands, and skilled. With the right big man coach and good ol’ fashioned hard work, this is gonna be our 20/10 allstar power forward to anchor our inside game on both ends for years to come.

Yeah, good win Hawks! Looked hungry out there, everyone contributed, we stepped up the defense (GUARDED THE 3point LINE TOO!!!), and the big players stepped up.

Good job ATL!

Are our baby Hawks finally starting to learn how to fly??!? :)

By BA

March 22, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

The POINT GUARD passes you the ball in the waning seconds of the shot clock…he’s GOT to take that shot. Fault the guard, not Smoove. Smoove’s defense tonight, except for a couple of late closeouts, was also exceptional.

By Joe Bling

March 22, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

19 and 9? Whatever! It’s like it doesn’t matter, because every time he gets the ball in his hands he thinks he’s Michael Jordan. He had a couple of games back there recently where I really thought he was starting to get it. In fact, against the Knicks (I think) he took zero threes. I thought, hallelujah, he’s finally catching on. But no, last couple of games he’s right back at it.

Joshfan, I’m all for peace and love, but it’s about time that people start to understand that Josh Smith’s thick head is a real problem. As I’ve said many times before, I don’t hate Josh, but I do hate his ignorance. He could be a superstar - but he’s not. He could be a winner - but he’s not. He needs to drop the punk-a* schoolboy, rec-league ways and grow up. This is the NBA.

By baconboy

March 22, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Horford’s 20th double-double means he has more of them than the next four rookies combined. How he’s not a lock for ROY is beyond me. It’ll be an absolute travesty if he doesn’t win it. Billy Donovan gave him the nickname “The Godfather” for the respect he got from his teammates in college and it seems like it has carried over to his teammates in the pros — let’s just hope the people who vote for ROY are paying attention.

By Joe Bling

March 22, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

How can you say the game was not on the line? We had a three point lead with three minutes to go!

By Harry Hawk

March 23, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Josh Smith should never be standing out on the perimeter with the shot clock under ten seconds. This team doesn’t really run plays, so I don’t know how much of that is Josh’s stubbornness or Woody’s ineptitude. In any event, Josh brings enough to a team at the age of 22 to earn a substantial contract. Josh Smith is a damn good player. Again, he’s 22 and never spent a day in college. Another guy who never spent a day in college, Kevin Garnett, averaged 20 and 10 at the age of 22. Josh is averaging about 17 and 8. Throw in the 3 bpg and 3.5 apg and you’ve got yourself a very valuable player. He’s not the cornerstone of the franchise, but he’s certainly an important part of it.

I chalk Josh’s brain lapses on the court to the lack of leadership (head coaching and otherwise) on the team. If you don’t have a man getting in your face and chewing your a* out for doing the stupid s** Smoove pulls, then you’re probably going to continue doing the same stupid s**. Even so, the man’s still a solid player. He’s still learning. I’ll take Smoove on my team any day of the week.

By joshfan

March 23, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

Jo Bling, You are not for peace & love. I read this blog all the time. To be on a blog and say that a NBA player who is considered a rising star in this league is a punka** schoolboy says a lot about you. As far as I know this kid doesn’t get in any trouble off the court and he does a lot in the community. He hasn’t disrespected the Hawks about free agency like Al Harrington. Nothing about I can see me playing in this city or I like this coach. All he has ever said is he wants to remain a Hawk. He still has a lot of room to grow on the court mentally and skill-wise but you do realize he was almost on the All-Star team? He is the only player in the NBA over 100 in 5 catergories. Blocks,points,assists, rebounds and steals. 19 and 9 doesn’t matter. Josh Smith leads the NBA in how many points that the opposing team scores when he is off the court. You will be the same ignorant fan who will be wishing he stayed next year. Also,I see you did not respond about Marvin. Good evening to you.

By SalimFan

March 23, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Exactly, even if they had converted on josh’s missed attempt they would not have taken the LEAD. which is why I also stated that the lead was not on the line.

Whan I said that the game was not on the line I meant that the outcome of the game did not depend on him making or missing that shot. Like you said there was still three minutes left in the ball-game.It almost went down actually. no one would have complainde if it did. But yes it was an ill-advised shot. But that shot did not hold game-changing consequences for the hawks.

By SalimFan

March 23, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

AND THE WHOLE POINT OF JOSH NOT BEING IN THE LANE WAS TO DRAW HIS DEFENDER AWAY FROM THE PAINT SO JOE CAULD HAVE ROOM TO OPERATE DOWN THERE. HE WAS THE ONE WHO KICKED IT OUT TO JOSH. I THINK JOE KNOWS WHAT HE’S DOING.

Anyone who has ever played basketball should know at least that much. Most fans even understand that, especially die-hard fans who post on blogs.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 23, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

If the Hawks had a real coach, Josh would be near the paint waiting to get a rebound or running a pick and roll with a guard rather than standing on the 3 point line waiting to take a shot in the final minutes of the game. He and Horford would have any missed shot covered while Joe, Bibby and one of the perimeter shooters wasting away on the bench tried to get open on the perimeter.

With Josh’s athleticism, ability to finish, and passing ability, it’s a crime that he’s not used in pick and rolls more. Even in games like today when his substitution patterns are not bad, his lack of creativity really hurts this team.

By Matt

March 23, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

Harry Hawk summarized my feelings on Smoove perfectly. I think the boy has mental lapses way too much, but his obvious skill and still-insane upside is just too good to ignore.

joshfan - if you bother to read my posts, I do criticize Marvin. Hell, read two posts ago by me and you’ll see me talking about how much it pains me to see him fading into the background while CP3 is challenging for the MVP. The reason I didn’t speak ill of him in that post is because he was on the bench in the 4th.

Josh and Marvin have the opposite kinds of problems. Josh plays too recklessly, Marvin plays too cautiously. My experience has been that both problems are pretty hard to correct; it takes a truly great coach to coax players out of those shortcomings - and a great coach, we haven’t got.

Both guys still have tremendous amounts of talent, and both still could go either way because they’re so young (both are 21). Josh’s upside is at least a little higher, but so is his potential downside; he could either be the next Shawn Marion (and much as some of you might wish it, he is nowhere close to playing like Marion did in his prime)…or the next JR Rider (the greatest waste of talent in recent NBA history).

I hope we keep them both - because if Marvin and Smoove learn to use the staggering God-given talent they both have, they’ll make us impossible to match up with. But that can only happen if we get a coach who will get them to recognize their psychological weaknesses and commit themselves to fulfilling their true potential. Otherwise, what’s the point?

By ray

March 23, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

I am rather excited about that win! The guys fought for it, and we got to see what an unfettered, talented veteran backcourt can accomplish. In other words: come crunch time, Bibby and Joe got it done. With or without the coach…

Al is the man. He and Zaza (yes, I give credit where it’s due) both did a good job of not letting Howard get going. Al definitely deserved ROY, but probably won’t get it because of the bipolar, egomaniacal (is that even a word?) freakin’ media. Too hell with it. He’s still the man. And despite worry-warts like myself, he got it done all year long.

I don’t like when Josh makes mistakes, particularly critical ones. I don’t like it when JJ throws the ball away. I don’t like it when Marvin or Zaza drops a pass that’s clearly meant for them. I don’t like it when Bibby misses a 3. What are we judging here??

People seem to forget that Josh Smith came out of high school right to the league. He had to be taught how to play. The reason he made it to the league is because he’s a freak athlete and could dunk like it was going out of style. His main teacher has been Mike Woodson. Josh is not a rookie, but the NBA is not the place to learn the basics of basketball and team play. And Woodson is not the guy to be teaching those basics to some kid. Seems like some people would realize this for what it is. He needs a teacher, a real teacher who can work with him, not just yell inarticulately at him.

Furthermore, because there is no mentor to look up to, and this roster is built the way it is, Josh Smith cannot be benched. You do this, and suddenly the only guy who can or is even going to provide you with post defense is Al Horford. Horford is the product of not only talent, but good teaching. Take Josh out of the game and you have one less aggressive player on either end of the court. This guy doesn’t just block shots. He has become such a known force, that he forces many opponents to either change shots or not take them at all. That’s not a shot-blocker. That’s a defender. How many defenders do we have like that on this team?

As for his offense, anybody who watches knows that he makes some bad decisions. Really bad sometimes. Funny how he compares to Marvin. When Marvin doesn’t do well or perform to expectations it’s “oh we’re still waiting for him to bloom. He was hurt last year so we never got to see what he could really be.” How many years are you going to say that? How many years before we get Al Harrington II? Why doesn’t Josh get the same treatment? And explain this: if Josh is so freakin’ stupid and the root of all of our offensive problems, how is it that he still manages to put up roughly 16/17ppg, 8/9rpg, 2/3bpg, and 3apg? Wow, a stupid idiot does all that? Imagine what he might do with a better coach, a mentor (be it a veteran player or coach), and some good off-season work? Look, Josh’s good plays outweigh his bad ones.

Do you know why Josh hoists that jumper? Three reasons: 1)his teammates give him the ball…not always at the right time, 2)he wants to get better as a player…so he tries the best way he can to hone his all-around game, and 3)sometimes he makes it.

The man is lacking the guidance and tutoring that any young player needs. Who’s fault is that? You should know the answer. Ask his teammates if they think he’s a burden, rather than a help. Watch how he cheers his teammates on. Watch him make mistakes and do the wrong things at the wrong times. Hope that he gets better guidance, better teaching, better coaching. And quit condemning the guy. If a player is to be judged by a few bad plays in a game, then how many are not worthy of their position?

These guys have 13 games left. All they have to lean on is each other. Nothing else. If the players thought as some of you do, then this team wouldn’t win a single game.

By Lil E

March 23, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this

Josh Smith needs a lot of help. I don’t know how people dog Marvin Williams out, and give Smoove a pass. Because he can block a shot ? or is i t some kind of strange man love ?

He turns the ball over almost 4 times a game (I’m just guessing, but I’m sure I’m close), he’s not a good man-on-man defender, he doesn’t box out, he makes retarded decisions with the ball, he has NO jump shot, and he has NO handles. This is the guy’s 4th year! I think it would be in the Hawks’ long term interests to trade Josh in the off season for a young center or a first round draft pick. Take the rose colored glasses off and see this guy for what he really is..

By Matt

March 23, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

Ray,

Again, I agree with you fully. See my last post - both of these cats have tremendous talent and potential, but both still aren’t living up to it.

I wanted to show you one more thing. Look at this description of Marvin from DraftExpress. The exclamation points indicate my “Where has this guy been?!?” moments while reading it:

[T]he most impressive part about Marvin Williams, and we can’t stress this enough, are his intangibles. Ask any of his current or former coaches and they will all tell you Marvin has an incredible attitude, motor, work ethic, and understanding of basketball. (!) His basketball IQ is extremely high (he grew up watching Dean Smith instructional videos). He understands what to do and where to go at all times, and is extremely unselfish. Marvin plays with a passion and desire that is hard to find these days (!) and is very driven but not consumed by basketball. For a player his age, he has shown that he is very mature. The fact that he never once complained about his role or playing time his freshman year and the fact that he understood and embraced his role speak volumes about his maturity. He plays within the team and within his abilities at all times.

Only one thing I can conclude from this: Mike Woodson sucked the life out of this boy.

What terrifies me is the possibility that we let him go and a coach finds a way to rekindle those intangibles. Remember when the Falcons traded away Brett Favre? That possibility is what scares me even more than Marvin failing to live up to his potential.

By ray

March 23, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

Matt,

I didn’t get to read your post until after I’d posted my tirade. Very good points. Also, I agree with much of what you said in our prior discussion.

JoshFan, SalimFan, also good points. Either a coach, point guard, or lead guard should be telling Smith where to go if he’s not in the right place when a critical moment of the game is present. He’s not a veteran, he doesn’t know the perfect moves, but he has the potential to make the play work. Use him correctly and teach him what to do, and you will be met with good results. Leave him to his own devices before he learns what to do, and you can expect it to go in either direction. It’s that simple.

Joe Bling, I don’t know what your true problem is with Smith. Yeah, he’s frustrating. Sometimes this is part of what you get when you get a player of his caliber. How many times do you have to be told that he came out of freakin’ high school and hasn’t had either good leadership or mentoring? Tony Parker and Manu Ginobilli used to drive Gregg Poppovich crazy. And that’s the difference right there: the coach. He reigned them in and taught them. Woody has not done this. Josh Smith is a good teammate. Your inaccurate assessment of him is getting old and tired. I’m not saying the guy is God’s gift to basketball. He does make some bad plays. I’d say he’s doing rather well for someone who has been playing under these conditions with this coach. 19 and 9 doesn’t matter? In what league? What would the score be without those numbers?

By fudd21

March 23, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

JoshFan Question. Where do you see Josh at long-term, the 3 or the 4? If at the 4, then what do we do with Horford? Let him continue to play the 5. If its at the 3, do you think he can develop the necessary skills to be an effective 3?

By SalimFan

March 23, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

Ray I agree. Also he has to shoot thet jumper to keep the defense honest and open up driving lanes. Notice how anyone guarding smith always bites on his pump-fakes.

By ray

March 23, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this

Matt, that would not surprise me. Woodson always gets credit for getting these guys to play hard. My high school coach was able to do the same thing. I don’t see that as exceptional or acceptable. A head coach needs to be able to do more.

Lil E, you’re another guy (or gal, whatever the case may be) that seems to want to cry “man love” whenever a fan likes a player. I thought that’s what made us fans? So which player do you have “man love” for, eh? Again, I ask you this: if the guy is this terrible, but manages the production that he has, what would he do with better coaching? Or is Woody the guy you have man love for? Your thinking is so one-dimensional, it’s ridiculous.

By joshfan

March 23, 2008 1:35 AM | Link to this

Fudd21, I see him at the 4. I think Al will continue to play the 5. I might be in the minority. I don’t think Al Horford can guard most of the pf in this league on the perimeter. Take tonight for instance he would of had to guard Rashard Lewis. He can’t do that. Great player who I think is much more comfortable in the post. In the evolving NBA pf’s are not usually in the post. Dirk, Bosh, Shawn Marion or Odom. Horford would be in foul trouble against them. Matt, you proved my point about you. JR Rider, what has Josh Smith done for you to compare him with JR Rider? You guys better go read Ray’s post again. You will respect those stats when he is gone. Also, he is another person Horford couldn’t guard and you will probably get a chance to see that too.

By ray

March 23, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

fudd21, this is a problem that Knight has created. We have no center, so Big Al is it. Can we win with a frontcourt of Al, Josh, and Marvin? Not unless Josh and Marvin are able to seriously step up their games. Marvin has to be more versatile and aggressive on offense, while becoming much more effective on defense. Josh has to become more mature and versatile on offense. His man-on and help defense is better than most. You’d think some of these clowns could see that, but they just can’t…

Meanwhile, if we get a good center to start and move Horford to the 4, either Marvin or Josh goes to the bench. This is a very old discussion. Some, such as the illustrious Ando have suggested that we were destined to lose one or the other eventually because of this issue. Sad, but likely true. If you’re like me, you say “Detroit got by just fine with Ben, ‘Sheed, and Prince.” And you were right. So how come we can’t get by with Josh, Marvin and Al? Because they aren’t what those guys in Detroit are. And I still blame the coach for much of that.

More likely sooner rather than later, we will see who stays and who goes. But somebody is going. I’d love to see a good center come our way. I’d love to see what this squad can do with a better coach. I’d love to see us with better depth in the frontcourt. But I’m not silly enough to believe that I will get to see all of these things at once.

Life is a series of trade-offs…

By joshfan

March 23, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

Najeh Davenpoop Great point about Woodson and his plays. You have the most athletic guy in the league and he only gets alley-oops on fast breaks. Bibby started throwing him oops when he got here. Woodson has shut that down. Do you know why BK wanted to fire him? 1.He has got into it with everyone on the team not just Smith. 2. The Hawks are 12-8 in games they have scored 100 or more. They are 18-31 in games they have scored a 100 or less. The final point Woodson is too stubborn. His system does not fit his players and he doesn’t care. He continues to do what he has always done. Remember this past offseason the new style uptempo offense. WHAT HAPPENED? Mike Woodson and Atl Hawks =square peg round hole. Most people in the NBA think the Hawks have more talent than Philly or Washington with Gilbert hurt. Do you think the Hawks would be fighting for the 8th spot with Eddie Jordan or Mo Cheeks coaching this team. I don’t

By curious

March 23, 2008 1:59 AM | Link to this

Ray The Hawks can win with Horford and Smith. Marvin is a defensive liabilty and always has been so is Bibby. You can cover up one liability not two. If the Hawks had a good perimeter defender at the three it would help Smith and Horford a lot. Most of the fouls they get are helping someone else not the person they are guarding. They don’t run from any matchups. The Hawks played good defense in the 4th quarter because Marvin wasn’t out there.

By SalimFan

March 23, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this

Realistically looking at the rest of the Hawks shedule. The Hawks can easily finish 2-4 games over .500

They just need to take care of the games they’re supposed to win….which is pretty much all of them except Boston and Orlando….maybe philly but I doubt that they’ll give us trouble, we have their number.

By mrprozach

March 23, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

Great Discussion on J Smoove, one point that I found to be missing. Josh does jack up WAY to many crazy outside jumpers, but many times he has to put those shots up because the ‘iso’ play that coach woodson called chewed up 20 seconds of the shot clock and Josh is at the top of the key to, many times unsucessfully, draw a shot blocker out of the lane. Leading to a still insecure player becoming rushed and putting up an out of rhythm jumper.

Matt I agree Josh hasn’t yet achieved Shawn Marion status, but I do also think that Marion didn’t really achieve that status until he was paired up with Steve Nash. That is a major reason why I thought that the Bibby trade was a very good one; not only will Bibby give us the taking over a game nights like tonight, but he will also help to teach our younger players how true running basketball is supposed to work. something our coach apparently can’t do

By Rod from College Park

March 23, 2008 2:26 AM | Link to this

Josh Smith is probably second most important player on the team behind Joe. If the coach would design plays which don’t have him standing behind the 3 point line with no time on the shot clock, then we would not even be having this discussion. Have you not seen how many times Chris Paul has thrown oops to Tyson Chandler off of the high screen and roll. Do you not think that Josh would be deadly with Bibby in the screen and roll? All of Josh’s weaknesses on the court are a result of terrible coaching and no guidance. He is actually the only guy besides Horford who gives a consistent defensive effort every night. Marvin is not even in the same universe as Josh. He is a 6’11 stand still jump shooter and that is it. He can’t play any defense. Notice how whoever he is guarding, teams isolate that player every time down the floor. He can’t go to the hole without falling, thus negating his 6’11 frame. He can’t hit any shot beyond 17 feet. He is a bust in every since of the word. I still can not understand how this guy came in and did an individual workout, and so did Chris Paul, and Deron Williams, and we actually selected him. He might not get selected at the gym I play at weekly. Real talk…..

By fudd21

March 23, 2008 2:31 AM | Link to this

JoshFan I agree with you. Many on here have called to move smoth to the 3 and I just dont see it. If you moved Horford to 4 and smith to 3 they both would have a hard time defending their positions and would probably get in foul trouble as Ray pointed out. Plus Josh ballhandling, and shooting arent adequate enough to play the 3. Ray you said that we probably would have to move Josh or Marvin. I personally think it will be Josh, not because Marvin is better but because Josh turned down 9 mil per year this past summer. That says to me that he wants alot more money and I don’t think ASG will give him 14 or 15 mil a year nor do I think he is worth that kind of money.

By SalimFan

March 23, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this

Curious, the SF spot for atlanta is a two headed monster of Chills and williams. Marvin is the shooter/offense and chills is the stable defense/high percentage shots.

For example look at The Jazz. Kiralienko is the defense/muscle and korver is the instant offense.

Or how about Bruce bowen coming out of games in favor of michale finley/Ginobili

Stakhouse or Even Barbosa for pheonix

Every player has their flaws and not everyone can be a starter on a team. Good bench players are supposed too either come in to add stability to the lineup or for scoring purposes.

Saying that we should trade a player mans that they are completely devoid of any value to the franchise. Marvin is FAR from that. Espically this EARLY in his young 15ppg career.

By Rod from College Park

March 23, 2008 3:12 AM | Link to this

Another point…. Everyone always says that Horford is really a PF. In the East besides Dwight Howard, who really has a dominant center? I see Horford as being similar to Alonzo Morning. He does not have great size, but he should play the 5. He does not have many back to the basket moves like a Garnett, Boozer, Stoudamire, Wallace. I think he just needs to bulk up a little like Zo did and he will be an above average center in this league. The only guy this year that really abused him was Yao Ming.

By JohnGTFan

March 23, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

Only here could people possibly be complaining after ATL’s biggest win in years. LOL Unreal. EVERY PLAYER in the NBA has their flaws (yes, even LBJ and Kobe). This is our team…every single player in that uniform. Someone hit it right earlier…with a different coach, you wouldn’t see some of the goofiness you see out there…but unfortunately, it’s who we’re stuck with for the time being. Let’s embrace and really support everyone of those kids (even Goofy-Marvin). 13 games left in the season, 1 1/2 game lead over the 9th team in the east…and a lot of you want to get rid of our best defensive player. LOL LOL ONLY in Atlanta.

GO HAWKS!

By RB

March 23, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

I just looked at the schedules of the 3 teams chasing the Hawks. If the hawks can’t get into the playoffs, their problems are much more than what’s obvious.

By tb

March 23, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

I’m in the “better coaching will fix alot of what’s wrong” club.

The Hawks have some increadible young players with only one having entered his prime (JJ). BK has done a good job, no matter all the second guessing and hind-sight.

This team should make their run to the PO’s and play some pretty good ball along the way.

Next year will be huge. If the Spirit brings in a decent new coach and allows BK to get a Diop type FA while keeping the core, we could go deep into next years play-offs.

I’m loving the Bibby move. he is bringing something the team really needed; leadership. He and JJ are taking over and the young guys are learning on the fly.

Keep Horford at C, but bring in DIOP to play about 28 C minutes off the bench. Horford can get about 10 minutes at PF. Smoove is going to be one of the best PF’s in the league in two years, if he gets coached. He can swing to SF a few minutes.

You add DIOP and this team can get coached to the top of the East next year.

The end of next season will be very important for the Hawks (Bibby/Marvin).

Great wins Hawks. Run it into the PO’s and let the rest of the NBA know that you’ve arrived.

By Sautee

March 23, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Ray,

Great posts on Josh earlier. And I love the wisdom of both of these comments:

Look, Josh’s good plays outweigh his bad ones.

Life is a series of trade-offs…

Part of Josh Smith’s “problem” on offense stems from his aggressiveness. I can live with the occasional late in the clock (or not) 3 when I know that his intent is to “put a dagger” in the other teams hopes. As a coach you wouldn’t want to curb the attitude, just the recklessness and the “time and situation” lack of awareness.

He’s 22 years old, younger than my son, who still makes reckless decisions at 24. Yes, he’s been in the league for almost 4 years, but he HAS shown growth every year. Give him a real coach and leader and let him keep growing. Just don’t offer him max money.

As Ray said……

By **NATIVE SON**

March 23, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

I got about half-way thru all the Josh bashing, and said to myself. I said,”self, what the heck are they talking about?” He may very well take sme ill advised 3’s, but it looks like he also recognizes it, and works a little harder. Within 3 plays, he’s usually redeemed himself. The real problem is this org. has no one to really teach these kids to play in the post. They used to have one. He went by the name of Rick Mahorn. Problem was that he was a threat to head coaches job, so he had to go. So sad, and why do you think these kids go elsewhere in the offseason to try and learn these things? The moral of this story is, “peel off all the layers before you say an onion is bad”. PS- Marvin Williams, see above story. PEACE

By DecDawg

March 23, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Let’s just hope the new coach next year is all about team defense. It’s apparent that Woody is not ready to teach defending in the NBA. We’re probably the only team in the NBA that doesn’t mix it up defensively. Nothing personal against Woody but he doesn’t appear to be a good fit with a young team where you have to develop talent. Hopefully, he can catch on as an assistant somewhere else.

By Lil E

March 23, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

One dimensional ? Are you serious ? You need to come back to Earth.

You know what, ray ? I used to be a big Josh Smith fan, just like you. Until I sat down and watched a few games with some unbiased friends of mine and had an epiphany. I was hyping Josh up like I used to do all the time. Until he got a rebound, and launch an errant pass down the court for a TO. In the next few series of plays, he threw up a god awful shot. I also can’t forget when he tried to force a pass into the post with 2 people around the person he was trying to pass it too. What was so interesting about that is my unbiased friend liked Josh Smith until he found out he wasn’t a rookie and has been in the league for 3+ years. You can’t blame to coach for lack of personal development, which further proves that fans like you need to take off your #5 jerseys and rose colored glasses.

Who do I have “man love” (no homo) for ? I like players like Al Horford, who come out of college and instantly become the second best player on the team. I like players like Joe Johnson who came here with the intentions on turning the team around and has done a good job so far. Hell, I even like clumsy a$$ Marv, because he plays within his capabilities and does not FORCE turnovers.

However, I still like Josh Smith and we owe a lot of our success to Josh Smith. I just feel like a lot of fans overrate the guy because he blocks shots from the 3/4 position.

So, really, who’s thinking is really one dimensional ?

By Lil E

March 23, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

I would like to add that I’m not hating on Josh Smith, and believe he could be an All Star next year with a good summer workout.

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

I agree Matt, Marvin was considered by many as the best prospect in the draft. NOT! Hey man, did you see the Lakers draft that year? We got Marvin and Salim and LA took Bynum and Turiaf. I’d say they had the better draft. Would’nt you?

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

I still cant understand why Marvin starts over Chills. He a better defender, a better rebounder, and can hit the 3. Not to mention, all the little things this guy can do. To make things worse, he was already on the team, when Duck was the 6th man at UNC. Well, as long as Woody pulls him, when his shot is off, I guess I can live with it, but its very puzzling.

By doc

March 23, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

terrell a lot of teams had a better draft that year, golden state, utah, hornets, lakers, ….etc. but we dont want to go there because we will have to defend our own team and its gm, coach and ownership. sad to say but it is true and the all had “worse” draft position.

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

I still have to give BK a little credit. He’s put a pretty good roster together, especially in the weak East, as they say. And he did it with 2500 different owners giving they’re opinions on who to draft, trade, etc… He even tried to kick Woodrow to the curve, and was turned down. So all in all, he’s actually done a decent job.

By SalimFan

March 23, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Actually we drafted great in 05’ I did state a hile back that out of all his UNC buddies who got drafted that year, marvin is producing the most. The coach succesfully pullend in the reigns on salim and has him playing solid team defense BUT now he doesn’t even vuse him.

All of our problems stem from COACHING. You wanna know why JJ and biby are so good? Because they werent coached by WOODDY early in their carrers. They are not products of his madness.

LIL E, you say that AL came right in and produced in the NBA. DID you know that AL, Marvin, And Smith are the same age? I think development wise they are all around the same level (Future stars in the making). Did you see that crossover and dunk Josh had last night? Flashes of greatness. Like ray said, his good plays outweigh the bad ones.

By cp

March 23, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Great win. JJ, Bibby,Josh Smith, and Horford came to play. Nice games by Chill and Pachulia. I stated on the last blog that Marvin has all the talent in the world but just lacks that killer instinct. If he had that mentality to go with all his skills then the kid would be that great player all the scouts thought he would be. The Nets have a tough scheudle so if we handle our business like we should then we will be in the playoffs. I know some guys will complain because we will be playing Boston but damn all that I want to see the Hawks in the playoffs I could care less who they play. Only in Atlanta would so called fans be mad that a team that has been out of the playoffs this long would be playing Boston. I really dont get ATL fans sometimes. Whatever tho go Hawks.

By SalimFan

March 23, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

TB, Knight’s real test of greatness will be developing a formidable bench. Our starters (including chills) will be good for YEARS to come. Acie is a good start. zaza is ONLY 23 and with ther right coach can be very good.

Salim won’t be back next year (Golden State or Pheonix for sure). And Solo Needs to BULK UP. J-Rich is a great prospect and can really shoot.

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

WOW! Did you guys see Dirk’s knee get twisted? Looks like the Mavs season just ended. Avery should be available at the end of the year, for sure.

By SalimFan

March 23, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

CP, if we go 11-2 like I predict we will. And with everone else having a harder schedule (B/C we got stomped by the good teams early) we could realistically leapfrog into the 6th spot and face ORLANDO……..Their not that great by the way, we just have Bibby now and are playing the right type of basketball currently.

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

The Mavs are falling apart, right before my eyes. OH MY GOD!

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Salimfan, Zaza might become a BETTER player with the right coach, but GREAT? Come on! And 11-2 is going a little overboard. Prepare to be very upset this month, if you think that’s going to happen, but I like the optimism.

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Salimfan, Zaza might become a BETTER player with the right coach, but VERRY GOOD? Come on! And 11-2 is going a little overboard. Prepare to be very upset this month, if you think that’s going to happen, but I like the optimism.

By richbrave

March 23, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

doc:

Good game over on O’Brian’s blog. 4-2 Braves over Houston.

By Matt

March 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Terrell,

I was talking about who was considered the best prospects in the draft ex ante, so talking about how good they look today is changing the subject. I would agree that many teams had a better ‘05 draft than we did if you’re talking about how they look today. But I’d love for you to find me 2 websites from before the 2005 draft that rated Bynum a better prospect than Marvin.

So yeah…read my posts a bit more carefully before you try laying a broadside into me.

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Matt, I agree with what you said about Marvin. What the hell are you talking about. I was just looking at the sites you posted and wanted to comment about the Lakers draft. THAT’S IT!

By Lil E

March 23, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

SalimFan, I can agree with you that Josh Smith’s positives outweigh his negatives on most nights. However, I do not think Marvin, Al, and Smoove are on the same level. Al Horford is a much smarter player than both of them. I think Al Horford will become an absolute superstar in this league. Smoove has a much longer road to being a real force in this league. I think Marvin will ever be considered a superstar, although I can see him making at least 1 All Star appearance. If Al Horford picks up some dribble moves and polishes his post game, he can be an reserve on the All Star team next year. Smoove needs to improve handles, jumpshot, decision making, and defensive footwork.

By reese

March 23, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

First of all, great win against Orlando and another exciting basketball game to watch.

The Good: Al Horford’s double double. Mike Bibby and Joe Johnson hitting the big shots in the 4th qtr. Josh Smith and Joe Johnson have entries in all the positive offensive/defensive categories.

4 different players took 3 point shots. Player rotations on defense were good and I like that Woodson sat Marvin down when he didn’t rotate well.

The fact that 4 players blocked shots. Josh Childress for chasing down Jameer Nelson and blocking his shot after his turnover. Mike Bibby for running out at Bogans to force him to take a step inside the 3pt line so that Josh Smith can block his shot.

To the entire team for getting into the head of Dwight Howard to make him change his routine when visiting his hometown. The announcers mentioned that he didn’t go home and that he stayed in his hotel room with his phone turned off.

To the coaching staff for devising a defensive scheme of having a taller player on Jameer Nelson.

The Bad: fans who still don’t understand that Josh Smith’s strengths out weigh his weaknesses.

Fans who still don’t see that both Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby are teaching Josh Smith. The problem is that you don’t like what they are teaching. Each player is OK with Josh taking outside shots because they both had similar struggles with their shots early in their career. Each understand that an offensive player has to feel free to pass, dribble or shoot without the fear of coming out of the game if they make a mistake.

Harry Hawk, Matt, Joe bling and Najeh would you all be as critical of Steve Nash, Shaq, Lebron, Iguodala, Pierce and Jason Kidd if you knew that they had just as many or more turnovers as Josh Smith in their last game.

Fans who think that the way to improve is to stop doing something. At least Woodson does understand that Josh needs to be able to play through his mistakes and doesn’t sit him every time he makes one.

For those of you who like players who want to play within their limitations, then you must really love Marvin Williams.

By joshfan

March 23, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Lil E Josh is a force in this league right now. Al Horford is the ROY. He has made much more of an impact than Durant. This is useless because if you think that you can compare these three equally. Josh Smith dominates Marvin in every category easily. U are the only person left who still thinks Marvin has a chance to be a superstar. Go check the numbers and who wins games for the Hawks. I think Marvin would be considered sixth on that list behind Childress.

By dakid

March 23, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Smoove will get better, but his ceiling is Matrix. And i have to disagree with whomever is saying Marvin has all the talent in the world. Good Mid-Range game. Handles are worse than Josh, he just knows it and doesn’t force it. Can’t defend or rebound. Our coaching staff has to be the worse in the NBA, I really think that. Talent doesn’t improve like it should. Look at the jump in production for the other wings with Josh and Marvin Skill set.

By Matt

March 23, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

My bad, terrell. I thought the “NOT!” was you trying to take a swing at me. It’s been a looong weekend ;-)

By Matt

March 23, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

I’m tired of some people (reese being only the most recent example) around here throwing freaking hissy fits whenever someone dares to criticize Smith. For God’s sake, I’ve said explicitly on this page that I think Smith’s strengths outweigh his weaknesses. I just happen to find his weaknesses maddening. It’s the name with Marvin, but I admit that my personality is such that I get angrier about mistakes of recklessness than I do about mistakes of timidity. My feelings about Marvin are more profound disappointment than profound frustration.

Calm down, bro. I like Smith and desperately want us to keep him, which is part of the reason why I get upset when I see him make mistakes (if I didn’t care about him, I’d probably just roll my eyes and keep moving). So don’t aimlessly whine at people who get upset when they see him make a boneheaded move.

By fudd21

March 23, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

SalimFan I don’t believe Marv, Josh, and Al are on the same level. Yes they are the same age and play for the Hawks but at that point the similiarities stop.

Josh is freakish athletically, but he doesn’t have the best fundamentals. Again that to me goes back to not playing college. In the pros there is not as much time to teach these kids cause you play so many games. For example, when do you ever remember seeing Josh block out for a rebound. He doesn’t cause he never has needed to cause he just out jumped everyone. He has the biggest upside of the 3 but the most work also. If he could develop a shot, get better handles, learn what his strength ana weaknesses are and get a HC to real him in, he would be a perennial all-star. But thats alot of ‘IF’S’

Al is the most fundamentally sound of the 3. I believe this is because he played college for 3 years and was well schooled while there. He plays within himself and understands his strenght and weaknesses. He hardly ever makes bad decisions as we see when he leads the break. I dont remember seeing him make a turnover. Not as athletically gifted as the others but knows how to use his body to get position for rebounds and scores. He is further along in his development and closer to his ceiling. I don’t think he will ever be a 20 point scorer cause of the lack of athleticism and footwork, but he will consistently provide 15-18 points and 10-12 boards each year.

Marv is not athletic as Josh but more so than AL. His offensive game at this point is better than both of theirs, but he doesn’t have the mindset they do. While Josh might one day realize his potential, I don’t think MArvin ever will. He needs to be able to consistently hit the 3, develop a dribble drive game and a low post game. The natural ability is there for him to be a 20 point scorer.

By reese

March 23, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Matt, what you call a hissy fit, I call an education. I was like Native Son and was only a few entries into reading the blog. Do you think that Josh wants to make mistakes. Did you see the look on his face when he made the baseline move and dribbled the balls out of bounds. He was mad at himself.

However, he doesn’t shy away and not try to do it again.

The long passes he makes down court, fast passes he makes in traffic and long shots he misses are not things that he should stop doing. They are facets of the game that he needs to improve.

The long passes can be approved upon by tossing a football around with friends or having someone show him in practice how to place more arc on the pass.

The 90 mile an hour passes can be improved upon in practice as well via passing drills.

As far as shooting goes, practice, practice and more practice.

Eventually, he will develope something called touch. In other words, knowing the right height to place that pass, the right speed and accuracy to make the pass and improved consistency with not only making the outside shot, but with making the mid range and low post shots. Joe Johnson is a prime example of someone who has improved their shot.

By reese

March 23, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

By the way, did anyone else notice the improved fast break defense of the hawks.

Examples, Joe Johnson defended the guard expected to receive the inbound pass. When the Orlando inbound passer looked at the next option, both Mike Bibby and Josh Smith recognized what Joe was doing and sprinted to cover that man. The In bound passer threw it to the next option and Orlando had a 3 on 2 fast break. However, Childress and Horford stopped that fast break.

Another example, Orlando had a 3 on 1 fast break and Joe Johnson tipped the pass and zaza hustled back to provide assistance. Eventually, Joe got the ball and threw it down court for a hawks fast break.

I also liked Al Horford manning the paint and covering two players while the other players were trapping in the half court.

These are the types of plays that I’ve been blogging about wanting to see out of other players besides Josh Smith. When you have all 5 players hustling like that and understanding the situation, you have synergy at work.

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Beasley or Horford, a friend of mine asked me? Big Al, all day long, I responded! There’s just something about that guy.

By anphill2

March 23, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Could someone enlighten me on what Marvin’s role is on the court?

By kwooden1

March 23, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

I didn’t get a chance to blog earlier, so I’m a little late stating that last night was a hugh win! To lose a 14 point lead and go into the 4th down 4 and come out with a win against the Magic, is HUGH for the confidence. JJ is playing great and when Bibby is hitting 3’s this team can score on anyone. The reason everyone is angry with JS is because we all can see the greatness. A guy with his ability and motor doesn’t come around very often. Most of his turnovers are correctable (over pentration, driving at bad angles, etc) The thing that Josh always does it try and makeup for his mistakes on the defense end.

But all that doesn’t matter they need to find away to beat Chicago!!

GO HAWKS!!

By ray

March 23, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Lil E,

Can you stop arguing with yourself long enough to let me argue with you?

In one post you say Josh Smith makes retarded decisions, and should be traded for the good of the long-term success of the team. You say he can’t play one-on-one defense and doesn’t box out.

In the next two posts, you say that we owe much of our success to him and you think he’ll be an all-star next year with some good offseason work. So which is it, trade the no-good retard or retain the future all-star?

Your thinkin IS one-dimensional because you excuse every other player that makes mistakes. You prove my point by saying that people give Josh a pass just because he blocks 3 to 4 shots a game. You refused to listen when I mentioned the total effect he has on defense, and the other facets of his game. So I’ll tell you again AND point out what he’s getting done. And I’ll break your argument down like this:

Josh doesn’t defend well man-on man. Wrong. Not only does he do this fairly well, but he is one of the league’s greatest help defenders. He’s not as good of a one-on-one defender as Al Horford is in the post, but he’s pretty good. And, he changes the game on defense. Watch opposing players…few will challenge him, and fewer will go to the basket if he’s anywhere near them. Those who do are often victimized.

Josh has no jumper. True. Nobody ever said he did. But it doesn’t happen overnight. It has to be developed, and eventually the player has to attempt such a shot during the game.

Josh mskes retarded decisions. Also true…at times. For the upteenth time, he came into the league knowing how to do nothing more than jump and dunk. But if all he did was make retarded decisions, how do you explain the 3-4 ASSISTS PER GAME? The guy knows how to pass, he just doesn’t alway make the right pass at the right time. Neither does JJ, although he’s clearly a lot better.

Josh can’t dribble. Also true. Yet he’s shown that he can sometimes lead the break and either finish or pass it to the right person. That must be a mistake, because he’s such a ‘tard right?

Josh doesn’t box out. Oh yeah? You’re right. He fights for the rebound. Explain to me how he gets 8 to 9 rebounds a game? Furthermore, boxing out is useless if someone isn’t going for the rebound. What good is a guy who is near the ball, but just boxes out and watches it go wherever? More often than not, Josh is one of only two (maybe 3) guys anywhere near the basket when a shot goes up. Boxing out alone isn’t going to cut it. There is very little team rebounding on this squad, so all you can do is fight for it. That’s what makes Horford so great. He does box out, but he ALSO fights for the rebound. Josh is doing what he can. I’ll take 8 or 9 boards a game thankyou very much.

A couple of things for the record: I LOVE Al Horford’s game. The kid spent 3 very good years at Florida, where he learned a lot. He had a great teacher. Imagine if Marvin had spent another year or two at UNC. Imagine if Josh Smith had gone to college for 2 or 3 years. But that didn’t happen. What you’re seeing between Al, Marvin, and Josh is three different levels of experience/development. No college/teaching, one year of college, and 3 years of college, in a great program with a great teacher. All 3 guys are supremely talented. It’s not about talent, though. It’s about the amount of teaching they received.

Where were you, Lil E, when I and several others were giving Josh hell during the first two months of the season for taking so many jumpers? Where were you when Ando and I said that Josh had the greatest trade value on the team, but shouldn’t be traded unless we could get a very good center who would be our unequivocal starter for the next ten years? Where were you when Reese was the only person pointing out that Josh is a special player who’s good attributes outweighed his bad?

For the last time: the NBA is no place to learn the fundamentals of basketball. You just don’t have time because everything is so much faster and the best players in the world are running right by you. It’s amazing that without all these skills, Josh still is near all-star level. He needs a good teacher. He hasn’t had that. Marvin has had some, but needs more. And again, if Marvin is so much better, how come he can’t produce more than Josh?

Another example of good teaching during college? Josh Childress. Such a smart player. Knows where to be and when. I’m telling you, it’s about the education that one receives.

By Steve T

March 23, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

In order for the hawks to make the play-offs, they will need JJ to hit at least 28 points, and Mike Bibby to hit at least 20. Al needs to continue to get double double, while Marvin and Josh need to average 14-16 points. Then we need some bench help. Chill has not scored in double figures lately and we need that. Finally, Zaza needs to come in and give us some good minutes.

By ray

March 23, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Reese, very good points on the fast break defense. I think we’re starting to see some real leadership out there. It’s not just coming from Bibby. It’s coming from Joe. Joe is like any other great player: he needs a good running mate. Bibby provides that, and between the two, they are really making things work better.

Needless to say, this is not even remotely consistent, but then who expects these things to happen overnight? You have to have good veteran players and we have just the two of them. We’ve got some smart young guys, but we’re also hindered by a coach who has been cluesless on how to pass such knowledge on (if the knowledge is even there, that is).

Also, I have a hard time understanding how people can look past Josh Smith’s efforts. The kid isn’t lazy, isn’t selfish, isn’t a disruptive force.

Matt, I understood what you’re saying. I realize that the aggressive action mistakes are more of a pet peeve for you than the timidity mistakes. I understand, but kind of feel the opposite a little bit. But I also see that it depends on the perspective.

Josh is frustrating because he is aggressive and looks out of control (because sometimes he is). I always remember his level of basketball knowledge coming into the league, though. I want to see him significantly improve his handles, decision making, and jump-shooting.

Marvin aggravates me because he doesn’t play “up” to what he should be. And he only seems to have one way for making up for it: hitting that mid-range jumper. I want to see him use those handles on offense and be more alert and solid on defense.

In short, I see Marvin not using the fundamental talent he seems to have, and Josh trying to use his talent without the necessary fundamentals (which he has yet to fully acquire).

By Matt

March 23, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

Oh anphill2. You’re so silly. This is Mike Woodson’s team we’re talking about. Nobody has a role here!

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Whoops, Marvin falls again. How many times can one person trip over his own 2 feet?

By dakid

March 23, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Alot of you say that Josh doesn’t have a high basketball IQ because he came out of high school, well he should be farther along than Al because the best coaches in the world are in the NBA. You can work on your game year round, basketball is the only thing to do, not go to school. While he has improved, and will continue, he needs alot of work, and more than he should need. People on this blog say that he’s only 6’9 and he averages a certain amount of boards, greatest rebounder I ever seen was 6’7(Rodman). And I love his effort, but running around without purpose isn’t the only form of effort. I really have a serious question, can someone with his skill set and ceiling carry a team???

By terrell barron

March 23, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Remember when everybody was crying for J. Kidd? Luckily BK went after Bibby instead. Kidd is avg. about 6 pts and 5 assists as a Maverick. That would’nt get it done in Atlanta.

By reese

March 23, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Ray, your description of only boxing out and not going after the ball is appropriate. Zaza and Marvin are two examples of players who are guilty.

Joe Johnson was another player who I felt should be a more consistent rebounder. However, I gave him a pass because he played so many minutes. But, I get enjoyment in watching Bibby and Joe get rebounds in games now. I think that the Bibby signing has rejuvenated Joe.

Again, I think that a lot of people get upset with Josh because he won’t stop doing the things that he does not do well. They can’t see the progress he has made, don’t realize that he must continue trying if he is going to get better and that a lot of times the situation calls for a quick decision to be made. Doing so with so little time on the clock takes away a lot of he pressure of making a mistake because the excuse can be used that the shot clock was running out.

In case some of you missed it, Josh Smith has been giving praise to Dominique Wilkins for some of his coaching and philosophy. You know, the Hall of Fame player who Lenny Wilkens said that he did like the wild looking shots that he took.

Matt, the players do have roles, we just don’t like the roles that some of the players have been given.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 23, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

“Harry Hawk, Matt, Joe bling and Najeh would you all be as critical of Steve Nash, Shaq, Lebron, Iguodala, Pierce and Jason Kidd if you knew that they had just as many or more turnovers as Josh Smith in their last game.”

Uh… why am I included in this list? Since when am I critical of Josh Smith?

But since you asked — I wouldn’t be as critical of Nash, LeBron, and Kidd because they handle more offensive responsibilities. I would be as critical of Pierce and more critical of Shaq and Iguodala because they aren’t required to handle the ball as often which means they turn it over more often per offensive touch.

Like I have said before, I don’t have that big of a problem with Josh Smith’s shot selection or turnovers because a) he more than makes up for it defensively, b) the bad shots nad turnovers happen because he is so versatile and good at a lot of different things, which leads me to b) a good coach would have found a way to harness and develop those abilities by now so that he is more consistent. It is entirely Woodson’s fault that at least half those fancy passes end up as turnovers instead of assists, and it’s mostly Woodson’s fault that Josh is in a position to take contested 3’s in the first place.

What sucks is that when Josh makes those mid-range and long-range jumpers, and when Josh completes those incredible passes that only a handful of 6’9” guys in the league can make, you don’t hear a word out of people like Joe Bling.

By SalimFan

March 23, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Reese, I was just going to say that there is an aricle from Terrence Moore talking about how the ASG has let nique’ take a more active role in the team and specifially josh’s development.Here It Is

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 23, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

The myth that going to college makes you a smarter basketball player needs to stop. The truth is good coaching makes you a good basketball player. It doesn’t matter whether you receive that coaching as an 18-year-old NBA rookie or as a 22-year-old college senior.

I don’t want to start a race riot, but it makes me wonder what’s the real motivation when the media constantly says young (mostly black) American basketball players need to go to college to “gain maturity” and “grow up as a man” and “learn fundamentals” and other BS catchphrases like that when tennis players and soccer players turn pro at age 16 and don’t seem to have a problem. Not to mention, every European in the NBA turned pro at age 15 or 16, sat on the bench for some pro team when they would have been seniors in high school in America, and then entered the draft. Half the Euros listed on NBADraft.net can’t buy cigarettes yet. Dirk Nowitzki was an everyday player for DJK Wurzburg at age 16. I don’t see anyone questioning his basketball IQ.

And last I checked, about 75% of the elite players in the NBA never played the fraud that is NCAA basketball, where any scrub with college 3-point range becomes a campus hero and has T-shirts made of him. But of course, every ESPN analyst wants young elite American basketball prospects to waste four years copying test answers and risking career-ending injury in college while athletic directors get 10 year $500 billion extensions.

90% of successful college coaches get by almost entirely on recruiting anyway, so it’s not even like these college players are learning valuable skills. Who gets more minutes, the one-and-done Thaddeus Young or the four-year senior Rodney Carney? Where are the people who said Emeka Okafor would be a better scorer than Dwight Howard because of the fundamentals he learned at UConn? Hey Josh McRoberts, you passed up being a possible lottery pick out of high school to go to Duke, how are those college fundamentals working out for you? Hey Golden State, how does it feel knowing that you passed up some skinny high school kid from South Carolina in the 1995 draft to pick 4-year senior Joe Smith out of Maryland?

To be completely honest, if I was an elite high school basketball prospect, I would graduate from high school, get on the first plane to Israel, lead Maccabi Tel Aviv to another Euroleague championship, learn more about basketball fundamentals than 95% of these fools jacking up 3’s every minute in the tournament, and get drafted ahead of every one of these college suckers. Oh yeah, and I would have got paid too.

By reese

March 23, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

SalimFan, thanks for the link. I guess Terrence heard the same.

Najeh, I included your name based on your 12:35 am post above.

Also Najeh, I agree with your a and b points. However, I think that the result is C for compromise.

Woodson has Al horford, Jchill and Josh Smith in the game at the same time. Both Jchill and Horford spend a lot of time around the post area. Therefore, to allow for spacing, Josh Smith is allowed to roam along the perimeter.

This as I’ve stated before allows Josh Smith to develope as a small forward on the offensive side of the floor while Jchill performs the duties of a power forward on the offensive end.

On defense, Josh Smith plays power forward and Jchil plays small forward.

Woodson allows Josh the freedom to be creative or to take the long distance shot when the shot clock is low and after his initial play for Joe or Mike has not worked. In other words, Josh Smith is the bail out option.

By Lil E

March 23, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

ray, what the hell ? Arguing with myself ? Stop trying to make a point and see my post for what they are. The truth. First off, I didn’t make excuses for anyone.

Second, I never said Josh Smith only makes bad decisions, stop putting words in my mouth. I’ve seen quite a few good passes from Josh Smith, but significantly more bad passes.

Third, Josh Smith has no business leading the break. He turns the ball over 3/5 of the time when he leads the break with the ball in his hands.

Fourth, Although Josh Smith is a spectacular help defender, he slacks on man-to-man. He tends to let smaller forwards/big guards blow by him and try to block their shot. It works sometimes, but more often than not it doesn’t.

Fifth, I see things for how they are. Yeah, Josh Smith’s handles, decision making, and jump shot are terrible. However, if he works on his handles and his jump shot he can make the All Star team next year. However, they haven’t greatly improved in 3 years. So, instead of waiting to see if he pans out, why not trade him for a true center to play alongside Horford which would be in the team’s long term interests ?

Sixth, I never said Marvin Williams was better than Josh. Once again, stop putting words in my mouth. Marvin Williams is definately a smarter basketball player.

Just because he makes bad decisions doesn’t mean he doesn’t help our team RIGHT NOW. I never said he was no good. Also, why does it matter if he gets 3 assists a game when he forces 3 or 4 bad passes with those. You’re too obsessed with stats.

We need him right now because he’s our good shot blocker, and without a true center we need a good shot blocker. It is what it is.

The reason teams get so many offensive boards on us is because Josh Smith and other players on our team dont box out, giving the opposing team’s perimeter players easy rebounds. Don’t tell me boxing out is useless.

Truthfully, though, I really don’t want to argue with you. You are not doing anything, but making excuses for Josh Smith. I’ve acknowledged his good points and his impact on our team. Nothing in any of my posts is false, but it seems like you are trying to find something to argue about. Are you related to him or something ?

By SalimFan

March 23, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

Reese Good points and Najeh that post should be framed b/c it’s so true. I mean look at LeBron. Not a likc of college experience. And josh smith is averaging how many points? The truly good ball players show up either way.

By ray

March 23, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

Najeh, I hope it wasn’t me you were taking issue with on the college comments. If so, notice that I mentioned that Al and Marvin had good teachers, that they were influenced by “good teaching.” Al had three years of it, and therefore was the most NBA ready, although his intelligence and skill levels must also be considered in the equation. Marvin had one year of b-ball in a good program, and he’s also a smart guy with talent. Josh’s IQ is questioned often, but I don’t think he’s dumb. I think he wasn’t taught as well and what you see is a freak athlete. Is his b-ball IQ as high as that of Childress or Horford? I’d lean towards “no” but then what is b-ball IQ? Is it instinct or is it taught? In either case, both Horford and Childress have had significant time in good basketball programs. Has Josh? Marvin would have if he had stayed, but he left.

I see playing college ball as experience. Experience in organized team basketball at a different and higher level than what you get in high school. An opportunity to be educated beyond what you’ve already had. Does it always end up that way? No. Not every college coach is a good teacher. Not every college coach is a good teacher for particular players.

Not all guys make the same transition to the NBA from high school. Kobe made a good one. So did Kevin Garnett. Lebron made perhaps the best transition in years. How about Jonathon Bender or Leon Smith? Smith didn’t make it the whole first year. Where’s Bender? Is the NBA a good place to learn what you should already know (the very basics of basketball)? I don’t think so. This is the PROFESSIONAL LEAGUE. Why would NBA coaches be expected to teach dribbling, passing, and shooting? That’s like going to work for a taxi service ,having never learned to drive. But this IS what happens in some situations.

But getting back to college, I think many of us know this is as much about money as anything else is. To me, there IS no myth.

By bobby

March 23, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

hawks should start a media campaign for al as ROY…durant scores and his team is one of the worst..but guess the media luvs him

By Kent.822

March 23, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Josh smith is a good player. Ok he makes bad decision sometimes. But his good defense is so valuable to the team. when do u have opposing players watchin there backs and altering their shots because of j-smoove. He plays both ends of tha court. He puts up 17ppg/8rpg/3apg/3bpg,. improved from last year and tha year before.

And why tha h#ll yall ate complaining about marvin, marvin, marvin williams He is the only weakness in the starting line up. he cant play defense and he shoots two much. he is tha reason why we in tha penalty in every quarter. Everytime he gets tha ball he shoots instead of driving tha ball.

yall complaining about J. Smith missin a 3 when they up by 3. He also had 19pts 9rbs 2assits 2BLOCKS.

WHILE MARVIN, MARVIN, MARVIN HAD 4 POINTS AND 4 FOULS IN MUST WIN GAME. AND WHAT HAPPEN WHEN MARVIN WAS SENT TO THA BENCH. J-CHILL WAS 3 FOR 3, 6PTS, 8RDS, 2ASSITS, 2BLOCKS. J-CHILL PLAYS GOOD ON BOTH ENDS OF THA COURT. AND FOR HIS 6’8” 190LBS FRAME. HE GRABS 8 REBOUNDS AND BLOCKS 2 SHOTS. IF HE CAN DO IT MARVIN CAN DO IT. AND MARVIN SORRY A#@ IS NOT DOING IT. YALL NEED TO STOP TAKING UP FOR MARVIN SORRY A#@ GAME.

By ray

March 23, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Lil E,

Your whole bit about trading Josh for a center is not even remotely a new idea. Had you been around for it early on in the season, you would’ve seen that several people (myself amongst them) already said this was probably the only reason to give Josh up. I believe I alluded to that in my last post to you. You said nearly exactly what I said at the beginning of the season. However, we also went so far as to speculate who we could do such a deal with, and who would be worth getting in return. We were unable to come up with an answer for this. Perhaps you could offer an answer/solution. And like I said before, where were you when guys like me were all over Josh’s case earlier this season (where his decision making was truly, truly awful).

You’ve put words in your own mouth. I never once accused you of saying that Marvin was better than Josh. YOU came up with that idea. You said you used to like Josh (implying that you don’t anymore), and that you like “clumsy-a$$ Marvin”. I merely compared the two players. Go back and read what you typed. Furthermore, YOU said that Josh makes retarded decisions with the ball. Once again, YOU are the person who used the word “only”, not me. You never said that he sometimes makes good decisions. I pointed out that he does make some good decisions sometimes. If you’ve never watched him play, then 3 or 4 assists should be enough PROOF that he does make good decisions sometimes. Or do you think that assists happen by accident?

The only thing I’ve done is taken your general statements and shown that sometimes what you say is not the case. I’m sorry if you don’t like having your argument picked apart. Perhaps specifying wouldn’t leave so many openings.

And I’ll agree with the idea that Marvin Williams is a smarter player. But I must ask you AGAIN, if this is so, why does Josh routinely outperform him? Look, I’m not obsessed with stats. Stats are what I call limited facts. You can’t argue with the numbers, yet they don’t tell the whole story. So once more, why is Marvin unable to have more of an effect? Why does our defense suffer when he is in and Josh is out?

And if you’re going to quote me, do it right. What I said was Boxing out is useless if someone isn’t going for the rebound. Josh is often near the hoop when a shot goes up. If he doesn’t go for the rebound, chances are that Horford is the only guy. So, Josh does need to box out, but he also needs to go for the rebound. That’s fundamental basketball. The only time you should only box out is if you have no chance at the rebound and you want to keep the other opposing players from crowding your teammates who are fighting for the rebound. Josh is one of the guys fighting for the rebound, not one of the bystanders.

Finally, I’m not making excuses for Josh. Try taking a look at the big picture. In your first post, you didn’t address what other players were doing wrong. You only addressed Josh Smith. I responded to that. You only mentioned “others” not boxing out in your last post. Really, which others? How is the rest of the team contributing to these problems, or is it mostly Josh and some vague “others”? You’d think this was a five-man game…

It’s been 3 years? No $hit. Have you noticed that the team has not gotten significantly better year to year? Has Marvin gotten significantly better? How about Sheldon? Hell, he’s not even here anymore. The whole team has struggled because of the dumb-a$$ for a coach that we have. How could Josh become significantly better if he’s not learning from somebody all year long? Who does he have to teach him? A veteran forward? Where? The coach? Please! Why is there little boxing out on offense? Because Woody is constantly telling these guys to get back on defense.

You say you see things how they are, but from what you write, you’re seeing ONE thing. ONE player.

By richbrave

March 23, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

ray:

Probably more teaching necessary because of all the early entrants into the league. They’re just not as polished as they used to be with four years college ball. The exceptional players like LeBron James don’t count in this class, but even he has improved dramatically with NBA experience.

Wizards drub Pistons at home. Time to take in on the road.

Their new defensive coach is making a difference as is Dave Hopla the shooting coach. They won tonight with defense which they did not play well against the Hawks. I personally think Atlanta is just too quick for D.C.’s defense.

If Hawks just had a first-rate 7’ center, they’d be unstoppable. Unfortunately, I can’t see the ability to trade talent for one. I don’t think even multiple players would do it. You’d have to gut the team of the best talent to attract any interest. Maybe Seattle. They’ve stashed lots of picks for their anticipated move from the N.W.

No draft picks and not in the lottery puts the team in a tough position, not to mention the salary cap issue. Got no answers until ‘09 draft day.

So root for each victory this year and endure until something can be worked out. It’ll happen, maybe with multiple changes to ownership, GM and/or coach, maybe not.

By ray

March 23, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Reese, I’m glad somebody understood the concept. Although, I’ve never doubted that you did. In fact, I seem to recall you writing a post on the subject of positioning one’s self for a rebound, as well as post defense and post position on offense.

However, apparently such concepts fly over the heads of some people.

By Steve T

March 23, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

ND, although some of the best players never played college ball, the game as a whole has suffered. The players today do not have fundemental. I think the NBA was better overall when most player played 4 years of college ball.

What I see is that may be the big guys need to go to college for at 3 years. The gaurds/small forwards seem to have an easier time moving from high school to pro.

By jami$$ion

March 23, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

Whats up wit all the hate today?We smashed the best team in our division.And we trash the team.We’re starting to play the way we are designed ,even though Woody isn’t using the bench to it’s potential. Hey LI E who’s this center you’ll trade js for that’s going to take us to the promiseland?And i want a real answer.Cuz u aren’t getting yao,dh,or bynum.So stop all the trade talk,less ur willing to give up a better player for a lesser talent.STOP THE PROPAGANDA 75%THE BEST PLAYERS CAME STR8 OUT HS. NOWAY!

By ray

March 23, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

RichBrave, where you been?

To be honest, earlier this year we ranted and raved about Josh, and we hashed (for a good week or so) out whether or not he should be traded. Nobody really wants to get rid of him. Just about anybody who said anything about trading him acknowledged that you only trade him for like value that helps the team over the long term. Hell Sekou had a blog article on it and a few comments of his own. He thinks it’s crazy unless you’re getting a franchise center.

The trouble is, like you said…where would we get such a center? Last I looked, teams were awfully tight-fisted when it comes to solid, producing true centers. You’d have to have two or three to even consider giving up one.

Of course, some people weren’t around for that big argument and want to act like it’s some new genius concept or something….

I’ll tell you something else…look around the league at teams like Philadelphia. People are salivating at the idea of getting Josh Smith. Philly fans are nuts about it. Josh and Iggy? NASTYYY!

And here’s another thing to consider. If Josh goes, you are stuck with Marvin as your future small forward. Period, unless you sit him and make Chilldress your starter. If you think Marvin’s good enough, then fine. You have to committ to that, though. But Marvin would have to become a lot more consistent/solid on offense and defense.

Funny…either way, you’d have to wait and see if the guy you hold onto pans out. Some people think we should trade Josh rather than see if he pans out. But if you keep Marvin, aren’t you taking the same risk, but seeing if he “pans” out….?

By ray

March 23, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

jami$$ion,

It doesn’t get anymore real than that, does it? Talk about seeing it for what it is. I asked the same question. Doubt if I’ll get the answer, though. Not because anybody’s stupid, but because there probably IS no answer to that right now. We have NO draft picks and nobody wants to trade a top 5 or 10 center to us. IT IS WHAT IT IS

By jami$$ion

March 24, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

LOOK RAY.I just be wanting answers to these ludicrous posts I read.Like js will never be better than matrix.How do u know?Was matrix putting up 18pts 9rebs 3.6ast 3blk 2stl per game at 22?No!And neither was AK.And those are allstar #s on a playoff team.By the time smoove hits his prime at 25 can u imagine him?No!And neither can i cause it’s SCARY.Just like the 3/4th the best players skipped NCAA.Outside KG(MN) & LBJ the best player of every franchise went to college.Shaq might be the best for 4 franchises.

By atlman

March 24, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

If we where to trade marvin where would he go? and more importantly who would we get for him. I dont know, im just scared that if marvin gets traded he is going to live up to his number 2 draft pick hype.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 24, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

Ray, I was responding to the 6:10 PM post by fudd21.

Reese, my 12:35 AM post last night was targeted at Woodson for not using Josh Smith properly. It wasn’t a criticism of Josh himself.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 24, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

Steve T, to be honest I’m not old enough to remember whether the game was better overall in the ’70s and ’80s when players went to college for four years. I do know one thing though — back then there were only about 15-20 pro teams, not 30 like today. When you expand the league by 10-15 extra teams, you dilute the player pool, the coaches pool and the executives pool. Back then players like Joe Johnson and Andre Iguodala would be 3rd or 4th options — no way they would be the #1 option on a playoff team. Would Mike Woodson and Isiah Thomas have head coaching jobs 25 years ago? Absolutely not. And when you have only 15-20 teams in the league I don’t see any possible way a guy like Kevin McHale would be one of the longest-tenured GMs in the league. If anything has decreased the quality of the NBA, it’s expansion, not early entries.

If you remove the 10 worst teams in the NBA right now and spread those players out to the remaining 20 teams the quality of the average NBA game would go up dramatically. Imagine Elton Brand, Jermaine O’Neal, Michael Redd, Vince Carter, etc. all being added to teams already contending for the playoffs.

But of course, greedy-a* David Stern wants to go in the opposite direction and expand to Europe. I wonder if he’s gonna subsidize the Concorde jets needed to make the schedules work.

By HB Ando

March 24, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this

By HB Ando

March 24, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

BA, not surprisingly, you evaded the essence of my point, which was that you called my posts lacking in substance, while offering no backing or support for the position. And then, when I mentioned that very issue, you, again, responded by rambling about comma’s and dashes, rather than picking up on any specific opinion with which you are in disagreement with.

You see, Joe and I may build on 3 years of arguing the finer points. But at least we’re arguing about points. You, BA, on the other hand, obliquely suggest an opinion, designed to rally broader support, that I’m irrelevant. But you lack both the recent, subtle cues, of other long-term posters, that I may be infuriating, but I am rarely inconsequential. And the fact that you do not, have not, picked up on those cue’s, underscores both your lack of credibility, as well as basic pertinence.

You praise Ray, but find him supportive of both me and my submissions. Do you not struggle with the incongruity of such a juxtaposition? How is it that Ray could provide you with such literary comfort and confidence, yet confusingly, to your simple mind, intercede, on my behalf, in responding to your inarticulate attacks on my content? Does that not make you wonder?

I’ll “challenge your intelligence” when you exhibit a fraction of the word. It’s funny how, within a dozen blogs, there’s a BA who offers that over half of all opinions supported the drafting of Paul, over Williams, while there is Matt, who refers to a broader consensus that Marvin was the obvious, upside, choice, for the Hawks. I’ve already pointed out, long ago, that Billy Knight was indicted by the NBA press for failing to keep his intentions, at draft time, secret. I’ve highlighted what was written, on DraftExpress, when they, just pre-draft, accurately positioned Shelden at 5, and Solomon Jones as our second-rounder (their explicit point being that prior to finding out that Billy was going to reach for both players, each was ranked much farther back than their actual draft position). DraftExpress made a point out of criticizing Billy Knight, that summer (beyond the mind-boggling decision to pass on Roy, Foye and Gay, for Shelden), for fronting an organization that gave up all trade leverage by leaking its intentions to all the other teams, rendering the Hawks impotent in trying to leverage the value of it’s draft position.

Now, BA, here I go again, actually offering content, when it’s counter to your assertion that I’m all words, and no opinion. Yet here I sit, waiting for you to respond to quantifiable issues, while you massage yourself and your tissue-thin ego.

If you get around to actually having an opinion, let us know. The Hawks have sucked for years, so we have little to look forward to other than either a rare insight, or the opportunity to b*-slap yet another pretender to the long-defined food chain.

Joe, as usual, I’m pretty sure you didn’t address my point. But I’m forgiving enough to allow that you’re more in tune to the analogy that exists between the Hawks and the Thrashers. What I’m wondering, without bothering to research it, is how do the Thrashers rate, competitive-wise, from a play-off perspective, with the Hawks, over the last two years?

The Hawks haven’t been even close, until this year. If Waddell has moved the Thrashers, higher and quicker, during his relative time as organizational head, is it apples-to-oranges to suggest that his status defines Billy’s future?

Not saying, just asking……

By BA

March 24, 2008 1:13 AM | Link to this

Ray, don’t talk about Smoove and Philly in the same sentence. It makes my stomach HURT! If you’re going to win in this league you have to have players like Josh Smith. I think a lot of those three point shots he takes are a result of bad play design. Otherwise, he takes the ball to the rack, fights for rebounds, and he is our shot blocker. He’s also the second best perimeter defender we have. The thing that would benefit him the most would be if Marvin would play better perimeter defense, and free up Smoove to man the post. How many times a game can you expect this kid(Smith) to close in from behind and get a block, then have to close out on a three? If Marvin is going to start (and I’d prefer to start Chills) he has got to step it up on defense. But all three of our bigs (Big Al, Smoove, Marvin) are 22. All three of these guys could be stars at 25.

By Lil E

March 24, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this

Whoa. Once again, what the hell are you talking about ? You need to re-read some of your own posts.

And again, if Marvin is so much better, how come he can’t produce more than Josh? - You wrote that. Not me. Your sarcasm implied that I think Marvin is better than Josh.

Never did I say Josh Smith only makes retarded decisions with the basketball. People have said, “Zaza flops when he gets the ball in the post” or when Joe was in his slump, “Joe takes a few dribbles and hoists up a deep jumper”. Does that mean Zaza only flops when he gets the ball in the post or Joe only shot deep jumpers ? No.

I am also aware that trading Josh Smith for a big is not a new idea. Does it matter if it’s a new idea or not, though ?

Who else besides Josh Smith fail to box out ? Josh Childress is the main culprit, but you can toss Marvin Williams in there. Once again, why does it really matter who else when Josh Smith is the subject of this so-called argument. I’m not blaming Josh Smith for the team’s problems, so the rest of the team has little to do with this discussion.

Why are we still discussing this ? It’s already been established that he can barely dribble, he can’t shoot, and he makes bad passes. I’ve stated that, and you agree. He is not a good man-on-man defender, and that’s the opinion I gathered from the games I watched. You already said that you and others also thought about tradi ng Josh Smith for a center.

I used to be a big Josh Smith fan, just like you. - You once again put words in my mouth, but in the same post I go on to say, However, I still like Josh Smith and we owe a lot of our success to Josh Smith. - That does not imply I don’t like Josh Smith. It just implies that I’m not a big fan of Josh Smith.

Why does Josh Smith outperform Marvin Williams ? Because Josh Smith plays much more aggressive on both ends of the court than Marvin.

You keep saying I said this and that, but you’re clearly wrong. You need use some actual quotes instead of your distorted view of my opinions.

By Matt

March 24, 2008 1:43 AM | Link to this

Najeh,

Considering how much 1) the US population has expanded since the 1970’s/80’s and 2) how many more quality players are coming from overseas today than there were back then, I’m not sure you can really say that there has been any real ‘diluting of the talent pool’. I honestly don’t think that the quality of the average NBA player today is any lower than it was back then. I just think it seems that way because people always think about the great players and great teams of years past; people rarely remember the mediocre players (much less the scrubs) from 25 years ago.

By Lil E

March 24, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this

Also, our defense doesn’t get worse because Marvin is in the game. Our defense gets worse because Josh Smith is out.

By BA

March 24, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

Ando, the problem isn’t that you lack content, you just have a really pompous, long-winded way of conveying precious LITTLE content. Ray provides me with nothing, except some quality reading. As far as the simple mind thing, save it. Bring something FRESH, nobody cares what you think of me. Hell, I don’t either. I for one am sick of Chris Paul, fire Woody, all that crap. My team hasn’t been in the playoffs since people tight-rolled their jeans! I’m looking FORWARD to it and no matter what all you pessimists say that IS an accomplishment. And keep it in perspective, you’re certainly not irrelevant. And I can’t say you’re wrong about Billy Knight. But I’d be interested to hear, what are the positives for you with this team? Are you convinced (as I am) that having a veteran point of Bibby’s caliber has helped immensly? Haven’t you been impressed with Joe’s current surge? Surely it’s not all gloom and doom? Bless us “unwashed masses”, oh great Dickens of the AJC! Maybe use little words for your inferiors like me.

By BA

March 24, 2008 2:30 AM | Link to this

Guess I’ll kick back and wait two days for a response…

By ray

March 24, 2008 4:15 AM | Link to this

Lil E,

We’ll try it this way, since you keep dodging my questions and continue to say that I’m misquoting you. How about some direct quotes from your posts? Anybody can scroll up and check to make sure I’m not misquoting you, right?

12:56 a.m. * He turns the ball over almost 4 times a game (I’m just guessing, but I’m sure I’m close), he’s not a good man-on-man defender, he doesn’t box out, he makes retarded decisions with the ball, he has no jump shot, and he has no handles. This is the guy’s 4th year! I think it would be in the Hawks’ long term interests to trade Josh in the offseason for a young center or a first round draft pick. Take the rose colored glasses off and see the guy for what he really is..* Okay, so what is he? What am I missing here? At this point, you had NOTHING positive to say. But let’s move on..

12:19 You know what ray? I used to be a big Josh Smith fan, just like you. I’ll stop right there. At this point, I assumed you mean that you are no longer a Josh Smith fan. And then this: Hell I even like clumsy-a$$ Marv because he plays within his capabilities and does not force turnovers. Show me where I accused you of saying that Marvin was better. Did I say “Lil E, you say marvin is better” ? No. I asked a question that addressed your perspective. I’ll ask it again, and do it differently this time: Is Marvin somehow better because he plays within his capabilities and produces less, while Josh plays outside of his and produces more? If so, how does that make Marvin smarter or better? It’s just a question. A simple one at that. Personally, I think neither player is playing UP to his capabilities, and that is where the true problem lies.

And then this: However I still like Josh Smith and we owe a lot of our success to Josh Smith. I just feel like a lot of fans overrate the guy because he blocks shots from the 3/4 position.

At this point, I pointed out that Josh does so much more than just block shots. That was the point of mentioning the stats. Not once did you recognize all the things he is doing besides blocking shots. Instead, you said I was obsessed with statistics. Hmmm. I wonder how other teams see Josh. But wait a minute…you just said you like the guy and you feel we owe a lot of our success to him (your words, buddy…YOUR words…go back and read them). So…he must have been doing something right…if we owe a lot of our success to him, right?

12:41 p.m. I would like to add that I’m not hating on Josh Smith, and believe he could be an all-star next year with a good summer workout. Okay, so you think he could be an all-star after a good summer workout. So let me get this straight. You go from pointing out only his bad qualities (and not ONCE did you say what he does well) and saying it would be in the team’s interests to trade him away, to saying that we owe much of our success to him, to saying he could be an all-star after a good summer workout. Uh-huh.

So we should trade a guy that’s this close to being an all-star? For a 1st round draft pick? Okay, how high of a draft pick? There’s 30 picks in the first round if I recall correctly. Personally, I’d not trade a guy with this kind of talent, production, and this close to being an all-star for any old draft pick. So which draft pick? And whom would you take with that draft pick? To whom would you trade Josh, and who would you be trading for? I’ve mentioned that this is an old conversation on this board, but concede the idea that you must have some fresh perspective that you can provide. After all, it shouldn’t matter that it’s an old conversation, right? So, I’m very interested in what answers you have to the questions I just ask.

For the record. I am not a “big Josh Smith fan” as you surmised. I never said that. Ahhhh, but you assumed that I was, eh? I recognize his value. I like Josh Smith. I like what he can do, and what he does. I get frustrated by what he does incorrectly. I’d have to say that the guy who really excites me is Al Horford. He makes mistakes too. Traveling, bad passes on occasion, and a post game that needs improvement. But he’s everything you want in a power forward.

I was trying to get you to clarify your assessment of Josh. I don’t cae how much you like or don’t like him. I was curious as to how you valued him as a player. Some of your statements appeared to be conflicting. Trade a guy who could be an all-star next year (with some hard work in the right areas) for an unknown draft pick? We don’t even know for certain who’s going to be in the draft and whether they’ll pan out at all, or even be able to play.

What aggravates me is how one-sided people are sometimes. How can someone acknowledge everything he does wrong (in detail, no less) without acknowledging everything he does right, with the same amount of detail? How can someone expect a young player like that to develop significantly in a reasonable amount of time when the HEAD COACH does not know how to run the team, run plays, or lead in any way? How can a young player develop when he has NO ONE to look to other than other young guys who play the same position and are the same age? Why does this get overlooked so much?

And yes, I know the defense suffers terribly when Josh is out of the game. I mentioned that Marvin is still in the game simply because he is PART of the defensive deficiency. Do you want to win? Then you better be able to play defense, ESPECIALLY when your offense isn’t clicking. That’s how you win. Both Marvin and Josh have their struggles on offense. Josh still manages to score more, despite his lack of skills and lack of smarts. But he’s a better defender…easily Do you know WHY it looks like Josh Smith can’t play man-on-man defense so well? Because he doesn’t get to. He’s in constant help-defense mode. Because he is constantly having to think about more than one guy, constantly having to switch over and try to stop another player from scoring. That means that “smarter” players aren’t playing so smart. And yes, he often lets someone by so he can try to block the shot. Seems to me like somebody should be telling him to do this differently. Now who might that be?

By I.MUS WRITE

March 24, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

Joe Bling- Hate on Josh all you want but the numbers dont lie.19/9 while holding Lewis and Howard well below their season averages. Meanwhile your boy Marvin only put up 4 freakn points…….. If we are gonna start bashing players ol Marvin needs to be at the front of the line. That man is a total waste of a 6’9 frame.

If Josh is traded or whatever- he will bring another talented player-Now what do u think we gonna get for Marvin/…. Maybe a second rounder or the likes of Bobby Simmons,Rasul Butler, Melvin Ely………….

By fudd21

March 24, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Najeh I don’t know about the myth hype, I was merely comparing the 3 who someone said were at the same level. I agree that every player needs good coaching especially when being taught the fundamentals. Al is more fundamentally sound than Josh period. Whether he received it from Tito, in high school or college doesn’t matter. Josh hasn’t received it and in my opinion he would be more fundamentally sound if he had went to college.

I have no problem with kids coming from high school to the pros. Hey, if they ready let them make their money. But you comparing it to tennis is a reach. Most elite tennis players went off to some tennis school when they were young and were taught by the best tennis instructors. You know these instructors are good because they have others that have come through with proven success. SO when they reach 18 they have been playing at an elite level and receiving elite teaching for years and therefore ready.

I like Josh and think he is an amazing/freakish athlete with average basketball skills (shooting and ball handling). In the game against Orlando, Josh caught a pass at the top of the key, made one dribble took his two steps and was at the rim. My question to all is why doesn’t he do this all the time? Thats what he does best. A straight line to the basket and jump over people. Stop shooting jump shots. Work on that during the summer, become more consistent at it and then incorporate it into your game.

Kent822 With Marvin we are tired of beating that dead horse. Its dead. 90% of the people on this blog realize he is a huge disappointment at this stage. With the natural ability he has, he should be producing more instead there are periods when you don’t even know he’s on the floor.

By SalimFan

March 24, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

I just want to highlight a couple of things.

1)As for josh making stupid shots, Actually he took that shot with 2:48 to go in the game with the hawks up by FIVE Not very stupid if you ask me. If he had made it no one would have complained.

2) Josh was 1 for 2 on three pointers for the night. At the 10:00 mark in the third quaterExactly Mike Bibby drove into the lane and dished the ball to the top of the ark. Who was there? Josh smith of course. What did he do? He hit a wide-open rainbow three. It was pretty too.

3)Notice how I stated that Mike Bibby passed him the roc for the trey. I think that guy knew who he was passin’ to. Yes osh hits threes, He’s done it since his rookie year. No, it’s not a fluke or stupid decision when he takes them. Actually his three point percentage is better than his mid-range percentage.

4)If you make josh a SFYou take him away from the basket, which is precicely what other teams want Newsflash: Opposing teams Don’t like his presence in the paint. From Vince Carter To Nate Robinson. End of story. He’s a Power Forward with SF Mobility. There are tons of player who can play those two positions Carmelo Anthony For example. Though i’m pretty sure none of the are the force that Smith is in the paint.

By SalimFan

March 24, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

I just want to highlight a couple of things.

1)As for josh making stupid shots, Actually he took that shot with 2:48 to go in the game with the hawks up by FIVE Not very stupid if you ask me. If he had made it no one would have complained.

2) Josh was 1 for 2 on three pointers for the night. At the 10:00 mark in the third quaterExactly Mike Bibby drove into the lane and dished the ball to the top of the ark. Who was there? Josh smith of course. What did he do? He hit a wide-open rainbow three. It was pretty too.

3)Notice how I stated that Mike Bibby passed him the roc for the trey. I think that guy knew who he was passin’ to. Yes osh hits threes, He’s done it since his rookie year. No, it’s not a fluke or stupid decision when he takes them. Actually his three point percentage is better than his mid-range percentage.

4)If you make josh a SFYou take him away from the basket, which is precicely what other teams want Newsflash: Opposing teams Don’t like his presence in the paint. From Vince Carter To Nate Robinson. End of story. He’s a Power Forward with SF Mobility. There are tons of player who can play those two positions Carmelo Anthony For example. Though i’m pretty sure none of the are the force that Smith is in the paint.

By SalimFan

March 24, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Like I said, All of you who want josh and marvin to have more college experience.

1)If they had done that the hawks wouldn’t be thinking about making the playoffs this year.

2)theres no higher level to learn basketball thean the pros. You get the best (Off-court) teachers in the game. For players like Kobe and LeBron who already had the “fundementals” college only would have slowed down their development.

By MannyT

March 24, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

A question for all y’all who don’t lack opinions. Given the number of practice days & roster slots available to the Hawks since the All Star break, why didn’t they find an available (D-League) center to put on the roster if only for practice?

It makes me wonder what is happening behind the scenes? I doubt money has much to do with some 10 day contracts and a possible minimum salary for 2 months.

Matt love the links to support drafting Marvin. Not that I am a fan of his play right now, but I can live with the selection even though CP & DWilliams are better pros right now. Unlike most, I rate BK far higher than Woody in doing his job…especially when compared to their peers and others who preceded them.

For all the back & forth about the Joshes, I hope we can keep both UNLESS there is a great sign and trade that leads to filling roles to make the team better. No one should be untouchable, but Smith brings very unique talents to the Hawks in spite of his inconsistency. Unique talent that is handled well helps you to win more.

While Chills might be more sign & tradable, I recognize that he fills a lot of roles on this team. They rely on him for offensive rebounding/hustle points and he contributes at all of the perimeter positions. But if you can get a good center for him…I would.

…and as I will resort to when I have nothing else to add my new sign off WAF

WAF = Woody Arm Fold

By fudd21

March 24, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

SalimFan Josh is shooting 25% from 3 this year and 26% on his career. Maybe I’m the exception here, but that’s not good enough to me to be hoisting them up. Especially when you’re much more efficient going to the hole. Even in your last point you said teams want him away from the basket because they know he is more effective down low. So then why would we want Josh doing something that opposing teams want him to do. They are trying to beat us.

You said that Josh mid-range % is actually lower than his 3 point %. I can’t agree or disagree on that one, but if that is true it just strengthens my point that he should not be shooting jump shots.

Go to the HOLE young fella. You are at your best when you do that. Not settling for jump shoots. You give the defense a break when you do that.

I’m done with Josh. We have 13 games left in the season. I’m expecting at least 8-5 the rest of the way, with 10-3 or 11-2 not out of the question. What think the rest of you.

By SalimFan

March 24, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Um why do you think that teams BITE on josh’ Ball-Fakes? Because he’s a threat from out there. Teams watch tape. He cam make em’ he can miss em’ he’ll get more consistant as times go on. You have to keep teams honest and josh does that. So even though he may miss jump shots. The percentages are in his favor b/c most of the time they are wide open and uncontested. So I can live with that. Apparently so can mike woodsen b/c josh doesn’t get scolded for it too often.

If LeBron didn’t shoot all those 3pt air balls his first season and just gave up on it do you think he would be as good as he is now?

By fudd21

March 24, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

SalimFan “Most of the time they are wide open and uncontested” and you beleive 25% is adequate shooting when wide open and uncontested. Come on man, surely you dont think so. And please don’t use Woody not complaining to argue your point. Woody SUCKS as a HC. Heck even if he did complain Smooth wouldn’t listen anyway.

As for bron bron, I’m not really concerned about what he did his first year. I’m a Hawks fan so I’m concerned about our players. But I will add this. A game is not the place for you to work on or improve your skills. That is done in the offseason, before and after practice. KG talked about how when he came to Boston he saw Ray Allen in the gym at 7am shooting jumpers. Or like the Melo commercial when he says why wouldn’t I take the last shoot I’ve already done it a 100 times. I hope that Josh does become a consistent shooter, but I still say until he does take the ball to the hole young fella.

By richbrave

March 24, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

My Wiz are playing beyond themselves. They have the toughest schedule outstanding against the Eastern playoff picture. More road games than any contender, more games against +.500 teams than any other contender. Yet after the wins since the game against your Hawks, I feel strangely calm inside. I must take back my admonition that the Hawks and Wizards would be scrapping at the end of the season for the eighth and final playoff slot.

Fact is, they’re growing up without Gilbert who sensing this is champing at the bit to return. The doctors once again pulled him off the court when he showed up to play last night. Another week. I believe Ando is right regarding the contractual situation and Arenas. I don’t honestly think the club will clear him to play with just six or seven games left in the season. After all, they have a tremendous stake financially in Gilbert’s well-being.

But beating Detroit is not beating the Hawks. The Pistons feature a half court offense and the Wizards are down with that style defensively.

I saw Atlanta confound that defense however. Why D.C. failed to bring their “A” game defensively against the Hawks? The Wiz could never consistantly penetrate Atlanta’s interior defense. I believe because of the athleticism of Horford et.al. And on offense they just didn’t match up well enough to win. Attitude has much to do with play in this league, and for whatever reasons, the Hawks feel thay can outplay the Wizards.

I continue to believe what I see. Your Hawks are an improving young team. They are going to get better, maybe with Woodson, maybe without him. I still cannot tell if he’s efficient because he’s doing a hell of a job with his troops against the Wizards. So FIRE WOODY? You can’t prove it by me. Not yet at least. I gotta’ see more of the Hawks against other teams first.

By Melvin

March 24, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Here’s a way we could improve our roster in the summer. How about we trade ZaZa and Speedy. They are two guys that are not big contributors and make about 10 mil in salaries (ZaZa- 4mil, Speedy-6mil). Maybe we could find a team that would like to unload a player(s) salary in that range (ie. NeNe in Denver, Curry in NY)..

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 24, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Usually when you watch a young player, he may not be completely developed and good at every aspect of his game but you can tell what his strengths and weaknesses are. Tim Duncan is one of the most fundamentally sound players in the world, but he’s nothing more than average at free throw shooting — this doesn’t mean he doesn’t have fundamentals, it just means he doesn’t have that particular skill. Steve Nash is a fundamentally sound player, but he’s not gonna make any All-Defense teams, because he simply doesn’t have that skill.

Similarly, ball-handling is one aspect of Josh Smith’s game that I don’t think will ever be above average regardless of how hard he is coached. You can look at certain players and just see that certain things will not come naturally for them. Joe Johnson will never be an explosive dunker, Marvin Williams will never be an above average defender, and Josh Smith is never gonna be a good ball-handler. This is all the more reason why Woodson should be playing him at power forward and have him as close to the basket as possible at all times.

But jump shooting on the other hand? I think Josh can become a reliable jump shooter. His form is not that bad — the only main problem is that he rainbows his shot too much and his release is really slow. A summer with a shooting coach should fix that problem.

By terrell barron

March 24, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Ray, Philly has Thaddeus Young, and Rodney Carney. They dont really need J. Smith, if you ask me.

By doc

March 24, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

manny t, i am sure they will tell you there is a logical explanation for your question and that by asking it you are only showing how much of an unsophisticated fan you are. isnt that how they respond to all the questions from bk to gearon jr. that is a question asked form the second day forward still not answered by action, a malady of the organization; but we are on a roll so what do we know right?

ba i know it might seem arrogant but i say with sincerity sometimes it is simply accepting people for who they are as well as oneself. it is easier to love it than to change it.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 24, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Aside from a $10 million bag of weed, I don’t know a whole lot you can receive in a trade if you are giving up Zaza and Speedy.

By Lil E

March 24, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Ha. Get a grip. I have no obligation to anyone in the world to talk about Josh Smith’s good side. You didn’t start out asking questions, and I really don’t care to answer questions. Why ? Because I don’t care enough to type out long winded posts.

Nothing I said conflicted, although you would like it “appear” that way for the sake of argument. I originally posted that he can’t shoot, dribble, and makes bad decisions. I also included that I felt he shouldn’t be making such bad decisions after 4 years. In my next post, I go on to give Josh Smith credit that he deserves. I state that he could really be an All Star with hard work in the right areas. However, I feel it is in our best interest to get another big man through the draft/trade/FA. That argument has been beat to death, and I’m really not big fan of “fantasy trades”. What made my words appear conflicting about that ? Because I say truthful, though harsh things about Josh Smith and then say truthful, and positive things about him ? It seems to me like you are made I didn’t praise Josh Smith enough.

I don’t have a fresh perspective on trades etc. because the information has not changed. Maybe around draft time, I might have a fresh perspective.

So, you see, no conflict in any of my statements. My words are just what they are, no matter how you try to twist them for the sake of argument. I addressed the things that frustrated me about Josh Smith, and I acknowledged Josh Smith’s value to our team. Anything you’re ranting about now is bull, and I’m not going to entertain this foolishness any further.

By SalimFan

March 24, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

How about this: Marvin is a beast, Josh can shoot and dribble. If you played them both one on one they would embarass the hell out of all you haters so why don’t we just leave it at that huh?

By DSLIM

March 24, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

will salim get any more playing time? i dont get it. He is better then AC law.Am i wrong about this? Why not have salim and bibby on the court at the same time..

GREAT LINEUP when in need of scoring

BIBBY SALIM JOE HORFORD JSMITH

Ac,marv, childress off the bench, oh yeah and ZAZA. This would be a hard team to keep up with up and down the court. Does woodson not see this? the only argument you can make, is weho covers the 2 if he is big?

By jhan

March 24, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Let’s hold off comparing what Lebron & Melo’ are allowed to do on the court vs. Josh Smith. Both of those guys are far superior to Josh offensively. Josh will be required to hit jumpers if he ever wants to play small forward. I don’t think that practicing them during games in a playoff stretch run is the right time however.

The lack of basketball fundamentals says a whole lot about AAU in my opinion. Most players that jump from high school to the NBA spend the majority of their childhood playing AAU basketball. Who do you blame if their fundamentals are lacking?

Comparing Kobe & Lebron to others that jump straight to the NBA is unfair. The fact that they have excelled is the exception rather than the norm in this situation. That’s like comparing everyone who starts their own business to Bill Gates.

By terrell barron

March 24, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Manny T, who’s the good center that we can get for Chills? Horford is doing fine at center. We just need a defensive minded 7ftr(not named Lorenzen) for certain teams. We dont have to give up Chills to find one of those. Now I’d give up Zaza and S. Jones for one, but not Chills or Smith.

By Melvin

March 24, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Najeh, i was thinking b/c Speedy and ZaZa have moderate and short term contracts (by NBA standards) that it might be appealing to others teams that are trying to rid themselves of larger commitments… such as Curry and NeNe.

By terrell barron

March 24, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

If we do make the Playoff, we’ll have a chance to win a couple of games against Boston, if Woody would start point-Bibby(Rondo), sg-Mario(Allen), sf Joe(Pierce), pf- Smoove(Garnett), c- Horford(Perkins). Mario could slow down Allen and make him take tough shots, and grab some off and def boards, while he’s at it, and Joe could contain Pierce and make him work for every shot. If he trots out Marv at SF, we’re doomed. This would be my starting lineup today, if I was the coach. Bring Goofy, Chills, Acie, Zaza, and Richardson off the bench.

By Joshua

March 24, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

How is it we make a huge trade and yet struggle to win against some of these also ran teams ?

Fire Woodson Fire Knight

By ray

March 24, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

LIL E, it’s a shame you feel that way. You got challenged and called out on a blog in regard to your opinion. It’s just that simple. You punked out because you have no answer to that challenge. No surprise you wouldn’t reply in some “long-winded post.” You don’t have much to offer. I didn’t really expect anything in return, nobody said you were obligated to say anything, you just got called out. And you punked. I have nothing further to say to you either.

By honest_abe

March 24, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

i don’t think college ball necessarily makes one a fundamentally better player. but i do think not every 18 year old kid is mature/ready enough to handle the ups and downs of life in the nba.

who knows whether or not people should be allowed to jump straight into the pro’s. i don’t think there is a clear cut answer to that question. but when i take a look at the most successful sports league in america (the nfl) i see that they require someone to be 3 years out of high school before they are eligible. now i realize that has more to do with physical maturation but i do believe that mental growth is also a major factor.

finally, if you take a look at the nba over the past 30 years the lowest point in terms of tv ratings and fan interest was during the early 2000’s. don’t know if you can call it a coincidence but that era also happens to be when the league experience the greatest influx of high school players. once again can’t say definitively as to whether or not the wretched play in the era was due to so many high school players but i must assume it had some effect. i don’t think its very bright of someone to make the age issue in the nba such a black and white issue. instead its a complicated one with many different factors and variables, without a clear solution. however, i do think that allowing someone another year to grow both physically and mentally typically in a college setting before entering the league can only be good for the league and the individual.

By ray

March 24, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Terrell Barron, Rodney Carney and Thaddeus Young are talented guys. Would you take either over Josh Smith? I’m not trying to be a smart-a$$, but that’s possibly the thinking some guys might have. Those guys are tradeable talents. Nobody wants to give up on new, raw talent, but it might be a huge temptation if you can feasibly get a guy like Smith. Then again, some people don’t seem to think he’s much of anything (or they just can’t make up their bipolar minds about him). I don’t want to see him go, but if it will make the team better…then that’s what has to happen. But does it make the team better?

Here’s an idea a friend of mine proposed. Perhaps all you “trade Josh Smith…for what we don’t know…but trade him” fans would approve. I think I would-

Josh Smith, Salim Stoudamire & perhaps another bench player like Solomon for Andris Biedrins and Monta Ellis.

Would that even happen? I’m guessing the answer is NO. But this is a perfect example of why “trade Josh Smith” is a hashed out argument a looooong time ago.

By cp

March 24, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

I was watching the Kings game the other night and our old pal Sheldon Williams is barely playing there. I really can see this kid out of the league in the next 2 years. Second rounders are better than him. The Kings will not be making the playoffs and instead of seeing what they have for the future they are still not letting him see much time on the court. I thought he could at least give a team some minutes but after watchin him the other night i re realized (if thats a word) how terrible he is. If we bring back Mike Knapp next year I would like them to do some tinkering with the coaching staff. Bring in an offensive minded coach to help Mike out with the offensive sets. Tell Clifford Ray you will pay him whatever it takes to get him here to work with both J Smith and Horford. Ray did wonders with Dwight Howard and Al Jefferson. Third call up Mark Price as our shooting coach. I think at one point he was lobbying on getting a job to worth with our young guys. I think this could help a lot with a guy like Marvin to maybe add some range to his jumper and to help Josh Smith. These moves dont seem like much but I think these guys could be better than whoever we have on our bench right now helping these guys.

By ray

March 24, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

MannyT, you are killing me. I LOVE the sign-off line.

Honest Abe, good points. Fact is, an across-the-board rule is as fair as it can be…but as we know, different guys develop at different stages. History has already shown us that some guys come ready. Others are not so ready…or not ready at all. Leon Smith never made it. Do you remember him? He had major mental issues and was out his first year, never to be seen again. Hell, I’m trying to remember exactly when he was drafted. Jonathon Bender showed some talent, then got injured and snuffed right out. Andrew Bynum is turning out pretty good. Just different cases for different folks…

By ray

March 24, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

We need to really take advantage of the Bulls’ struggles right now. While I hate to see it happen on any team, these guys are imploding and rebelling against their coach. That is not a recipe for success. Our guys have been through lots of hell too, but have not shown that type of issue this season (well, for the most part…AJ kind of did with Woodson…but he’s gone now). They’ve stuck together the whole time. We need to take advantage of this and throw a whoopin’ to Chicago. ‘Nuff said.

By honest_abe

March 24, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

ray: we really should take advantage of chicago right now. but these are the hawks and whenever they are “supposed” to win a game we all know what usually happens.

By SalimFan

March 24, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Here’s an example. Meet Louis Williams Those plays happen about once every NBA game or so. Now picture that happening for a full 32 minuets. Thats how it is in high school for these guys.

Now I went to highschool with this kid. He averaged 27ppg was Georgias Mr. Basketball two years in a row. Ranked the nations number one prep player won the neysmith and a Highschool Title. What did that translate to in his first year of the pros? About 1ppg and a reputation fo having a poor shooting stroke. Which is not true. I’ve see lue kill teams from behiend the line tons of time. And he spent hours in the gym shooting jumpshots. He rarely ever missed.

Josh smith led his oak hill team to a 38-0 record , a state title, and a number 1 ranking in the nation.

Marvin williams averaged 28ppg in HS.

My point? IT TAKES TIME. ESPICALLY FOT HS PLAYERS. THE NBA IS A WHOLE NOTHER ANIMAL COMPARED TO HS AND SOMETIMES EVEN COLLEGE……….ASK SHELDON. IT TOOK T-MAC FOUR YERS BEFORE HE LANDED IN ORLANDO. JERMAYNE O’NEAL WASTED ON THE BENCH FOR FOUR YEARS BEHIEND RASHEED BEFORE HE WAS SENT TO INDY. CHAUNCEY THE #3 IN THE 97 DRAFT GOT TOSSED AROUND FOR FIVE YEARS BEFORE HE LANDED IN DETROIT.

If any of you played these players you would look like little school girls. Cut the crap. Player deficancies get shown in the NBA GET OVER IT. They’re still great players. Men play in the NBA and very few players come in to the NBA playing like men. Josh,Marvin, and Al are all 21. How old is Joe? 26 he’s been around the block a couple of times. Joe got traded in the middle of his rookie season.

If you want to root for an old team that only has 5 to 6 years left then be a detriot fan or a San Antonio fan. But i’d rather root for a them thats gonna be around for the next 12 years. in he next 6 years KG,RAY,PAUL,SHEED,DUNCAN won’t even be in the leauge anymore.

By MannyT

March 24, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

doc the beauty of being an unsophisticated fan is that I can ask such a question and look like I expect a reasonable answer. Kind of like when a kid replies to an explanation with why?

TB the risky part of a sign and trade is that the Hawks don’t get to pick who the dance partner—Josh and his agent do that. All that said, you might find a willing partner in a team like Utah. The deal might look like a 1st rounder & Jarron Collins. Seattle might do something small with one of their big stiffs and a 1st rounder they picked up from Phoenix…or my favorite, get Przybilla back from Portland.

Before youse folks start flaming me…remember the situation in which you do a sign & trade with Chills is if you are unwilling to match the deal he is offered. At that point, no one is offering their star center to sign your 6th man. When you start looking at expendable bigs—these teams may be willing to move a big man.

Ray I have not seen any news lately. Are you selling your stuff to the Onion now?

WAF

By Sautee

March 24, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

I wonder what it would take to get Donnie Walsh here. He just resigned from the Pacers.

We can dream can’t we?

By doc

March 24, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

MANNY T you know i have the same question so i too am in that category of unknowing, unsophisticated but with this group not so naive.

can anyone see two sign and trades this summer? ooh that is a nasty thought.

By drmaryb

March 24, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

Hey Richbrave

Just got in from Augusta, GA. Went home for family-time. Looks like you have been feeling ill. I am very concerned - I knew I should have returned that bottle of viagra to the pharmacist. ;( Your Heart just can’t handle that much pressure. HA HA!

Looks like DOC gave you some expert advice so please take advantage of the free medical.

I was telling chikara that you were probably sitting on the 50 yard line at that Hawks -vs- Wizards game last week. Because I know you have love for both those teams - that’s all.

Well looks like we pulled off a fabulous victory against the MAGIC. I didn’t see the game but I was so happy to see that box score the next day. Finally the HAWKS destiny is in their own hands.

Doc how are you? Happy for the HAWKS win? Playoffs here we come - So we can MAKE SOME NOISE!

RAY time for another episode of something. The blog is boring today - Spice this thing up - make us laugh on here!! How many Billy Goats under the Bridge now?

Najeh Fire it up - maaane! Is it too late to add another BIG to this roster for the post-season? Is Dale Davis too old or something? What ever happened to Big-Country Reeves? LOL HA HA HA!

By FACTS OF LIFE

March 24, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

RAY-are you trying to convince everyone that you’re more p** off with Woodson’s poor coaching than I am? You need to cease your efforts right now, heh, heh, heh. Man, let’s hope Woodson stays out of the way and allows the players to do their thing. I’m certain he hasn’t installed a new OFF. Therefore, our recent half court OFF success is due to the players committment to making what we’ve had all along work. I can only surmise that their previous failure was due to their attitudes toward Woodson and his tactics.

CLYDE-did you notice what transpired in the Orlando gm? Horford and Zaza controlled Howard by playing solid position DEF and didn’t allow him to receive the ball near the basket. When JSmith ended up guarding him, he allowed him to get position close to the basket. When Howard went up Josh tried to block his shot and ended up fouling and damn near lost his arm each time. If your DEF is good enough to keep them out of the lane and/or off balance, shotblocking becomes much less of a necessity.

If the Hawks can win the next 3gms, especially home & away wins against the Bulls, we might end up witnessing this teams coming out. The intensity and pressure the Hawks will face the remainder of the season will accelerate their maturation process.

I get excited thinking about starting next yr with Bibby at PG. I also think about Horford starting next season playing at an even higher level than he’s finishing this season playing. Imagine JSmith finally playing under control, with more OFF consistency, an entire season. I also expect Marvin, yes Marvin damit, to be more consistent, with more DEF awareness.

Sorry, I got ahead of myself there. GOOD LUCK TOMORROW NIGHT YOU HIGH FLYING HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By MannyT

March 24, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

drmaryb You keep laughing. I see Joe Kleine showing up at BK’s door with a case of ribs!

doc that would be a scary way to fill out the roster. Those are the types of deals that either get you a late bloomer like Ben Wallace or a line of bad bulbs without that Home Depot warranty.

Imagine the look on Woody’s face if you swap out both Joshes for 5 or 6 journeymen.

There might not be ANY blood left in his arms by Thanksgiving (assuming he sticks around)

WAF WAF double WAF

By HB Ando

March 24, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

Salimfan, there’s both truth and fallacy in what you’ve said, regarding the transition from HS to the NBA. Your truth is underscored by guys like J. O’Neal, which breeds a more specific point: that big men take longer to develop, in most cases, than guards and wings. Some of the players you could use as examples were more defined, production-wise, by where they played, and who was in front of them on their roster. Each case is individual.

But the other side of that coin, and Louis Williams is a great example, is that a player who can dominate on the high school level, and, subsequently, on the college level, does not necessarily fit the necessary physical parameters of a successful NBA player. I had questions about Williams, who I got to see quite a bit in high school, because he is a classic ‘tweener. Too small to play and defend the two, and lacking the mentality and skill to be a pass-first point guard. He’s likely to continue to develop his niche as “instant offense” off the bench, as a sixth man.

There was a great deal of argument, in the world of talent evaluators, by the end of their senior seasons, in high school, about who was the better prospect: Williams or Ellis. It was pretty clear to me that Ellis had a slightly quicker first step AND was a couple of inches taller. Watching that years’ draft, I was praying that Billy would take Ellis when he slipped into the second round, rather than Salim.

My point is that it’s not as simple as saying all these guys just need time to develop, when they come straight from HS (though this one-year delay makes no sense for either college or the NBA; make it straight to the league, or two years, and the college game would really benefit, especially at 2 years, where both games would benefit).

TMac was playing behind his cousin, Vinsanity. And some coaches just won’t play kids, no matter how ready their games are.

Josh Smith was the classic example of a kid who wouldn’t have gone to college if he wasn’t a freak athlete. And for those kids, it’s tricky to put them in an academic institution, when it’s obvious that they’re only there to play ball for a year, and take their shot at the big time.

But the issues I see, with some of the younger Hawks, isn’t about giving them time (though they’ve all improved as they’ve matured) to grow. With Josh, it’s about hoops IQ, and whether he’s going to play his heart out when he gets the big payday. And with Marvin, it’s just about heart, in general. He’s already shown the skills to be a quality player. But he’s created just as many question marks about his intensity and passion for the game.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, one only has to look at how little AK47 has improved, to have some reasonable fears about how much to pay Josh Smith. And there’s no crystal ball, so somebody is going to have to make the call, and then live with the consequences, hoping he exceeds expectations, rather than being yet another young NBA talent, who goes on cruise control as soon as he signs the big contract.

It’s a decision that will define the future of the Hawks franchise.

By SalimFan

March 24, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

I agree ando Some of the HS players riding the bench was based on who was in front of them. But louis’ game is suited for the NBA. He’s a point guard. He’s played the point in HS before. There are signs of it all over the NBA. Steve Francis, Gilbert Arenas, Deron Williams, and Chauncey Billups. All of these stars are tweeners. Some of them had to go to a couple of different teams before they found their place. Luther Head and Deron……neither were PG’s for illinois. It was Dee Brown (who is currently playing in the Turkish Leauge).

I beleive Salim will find his place somwhere next season as well. He’s a point. The transition for guards is not as long partly b/c guards have to know how to do everthing from posting up to shooting. They already poess these skills. Louis can pass, so can salim.

Out of all of the Georgia prep players. Wich include Dwight Howard and Josh Smith. Louis is Georgias all-time leading scorer. There’s a place for him in the NBA.

As For Marvin. I’d say he’s had an average transition. Although he went from 16ppg to 14.9 currently. He’s a big guy so he already has found his place on the team. I like childress coming off the bench to provide better defense and a stable inside game.

I have a question though. Where do you think the best fit for Salim will be next season?

By reese

March 24, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

MannyT, that is a question that only Sekou, 790thezone, 680thefan, Dennis Scott at night or some other city’s reporters can answer.

Those are the only people who can relay questions to our owners and GM. The lack of filling those last two roster spots too me means that they don’t have the money to spend.

Facts of life, Al Horford was covering Dwight Howard on that dunk. He was fronting Howard and expecting backside help. Josh Smith provided the help, but was late arriving to deflect the pass. Once Howard caught the pass, it was all over (facial).

By MannyT

March 24, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

SalimFan Imagine Salim coming off the bench for Nelly at Golden State.

Maybe he could find a place at the end of Denver’s bench. Imagine if he could learn something from AI when he chooses to practice with the young fella.

No more shoot and look to the bench.

WAF

By drmaryb

March 24, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Hey MannyT

Great Post-up! Real Good Stuff maane - You always bring that heat and that A-Game Just having fun on here - especially when our team wins - I’m just smilin’ all day! I sure hope we can get to that 6 or 7 spot. I would rather take our chances against Detroit or Orlando in Round 1.

Them’ Celtics are RIDICULOUS MAANE! I guess **Larry Bird (Ray Allen) DID walk through that door. Robert Parrish (KG) DID walk through that door. And, Kevin McHale (Paul Pierce…I KNOW that was a stretch) DID walk through that door-After All!

Can somebody please call Rick Pitino & let him know this!

Seriously, the celtic pride is back and I don’t want them using my HAWKS for target practice, Not until we get our BIG-MAN!

By terrell barron

March 24, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Dslim, Salim is better than Acie Law? Are you serious? Better spot up shooter. THAT’S IT!

By Nate ArchiBALL

March 24, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Jhan Excellent point about AAU basketball….fundamentals are not taught enough at the AAU or high school level.

By SalimFan

March 24, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Terrell Barron. He’s better Offensively.

By terrell barron

March 24, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

How bout them Sixers? They Knocked off Boston.

By terrell barron

March 24, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Acie Law and Salim are two different kind of players, man.

By Melvin

March 24, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

Dang. Philly came back to beat the Celtics tonite. What has gotten into those Sixers??? Hawks need to win tomorrow to keep pace…. Also, not only do they have to worry about the Nets and Bulls. Here comes Indy join the playoffs race as well. Only 1.5 games behind the Hawks.

By terrell barron

March 24, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

The Nets won. Dont lay an egg tomorrow night fellas.

By Steve T

March 24, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Someone mention next year and Bibby at PG. The hawks will need to improve the bench next year. We need someone to spell JJ. The person I have in mind is D. Wilkins. He would make an excellent back up.

The next move is to get a back up for Big Al. We need a center that can play defense, rebound and block shots.

The rest of the bench can be Mario, Chill, and a couple of guys that can shoot the Steve Kerr type. We can let JJ play when they come in the game. Hey, we may have a guy like that in Salmin.

By mykhalc

March 24, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

SalimFan, gotta give you credit. your luv for SALIM’s game is unconditional, no doubt. but SALIM is not a PG. he’s a 2 trapped in a 1’s body. he’s needs to find a team where he can mimick EHOUSE and/or BARBOSA’s role comin’ off the bench. though he does NOT have the skills of a BARBOSA!!!

and to compare him to ACIE is waaaaayyyyy off base. whether it’s his fault or not, SALIM has fallen waaayyyy short in his 3 yrs as a HAWK compared to ACIE’s rook year…no matter how thick your rose colored glasses might be!!!

By Ken Strickland

March 24, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Sorry, the FACTS OF LIFE is me.

By doc

March 24, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

ken are you fessin up after you found no one was going to mess with you. how many id’s do you have there fella, fess up so we can harrass you feely. heh heh

By HB Ando

March 24, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

Gotta agree with Myc, and this isn’t the first time, but one of many, when Salim’s limitation have been broken down. He is truly one-dimensional. Where do I see him, next year? Could be anywhere that needs to fill the role of second-team, long range shooter. His value is that he can score in bunches, and his range makes an opposing defense have to choose between double teaming the post, and leaving him open, or contesting his range, and creating space on the low block. So I guess he’ll find his optimal opportunity anywhere there’s a team who has a really good low-post scorer, but lacks a deep threat to loosen up collapsing defenses.

But as far as him being a point, he has really shaky handle, and virtually no lateral movement, which renders him an ineffective defender of opposing points. And then he’s too small to guard opposing 2’s.

Where your boy, Louis, has the quickness to guard opposing points, and solid, if unspectacular, PG skills, Salim really has neither. You said Louis played point in HS, but my memory is that he played off the ball quite a bit, while Mike Mercer, who is an NBA-caliber athlete, but shoots worse than Larry Hughes (who he most resembles, game-wise), played a lot of lead guard.

And, once again, playing the point in high school, where 6’1 is tall enough, and great athletes can dominate, no matter what their size is, does not automatically translate to the NBA.

Look at Kenny Bruner, Pearl Washington (the list can go on and on), etc.

Not dogging Williams, because I have nothing but hope to see a local kid do well. But his challenges underscore many of the differences between being a McDonald’s All-American, and being an NBA star. If it was that simple, all 25 of the Mickey-D crew, every single year, would end up playing in the league.

But the NBA exposes every weakness, whether it’s physical, or just an aspect of a kid’s game that doesn’t hold up under the pressure of the big stage.

Like I said, when it was Billy’s turn, and he took Salim, I was bummed, as I had a strong feeling that Ellis’ game was going to blossom in the NBA.

By jami$$ion

March 24, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

A IF WE DEFEAT CHICAGO & HANDLE OUR BUSINESS .WE CAN POSSIBLY GO 5 & 0.HEADING INTO A SHOWDOWN WITH TORONTO FOR THE 7TH SPOT. AT THE SAME TIME TORONTO & WASHINGTON’S SCHEDULES ARE BRUTAL. Oh i always liked this teams make up.We as fans always want the best.But we need to know there is no best.It’s what you make it.If you asked whose the MVP you’ll get many different answers.Same if you asked whose the best player.I have a killa backcourt & 2 beasts upfront.Give me sum vets,some beef on SJ,& play RIO.

By jami$$ion

March 24, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

I don’t need d.wilkins.Why?We already have enough guards who are nice that don’t get any burn that are better than him.Chills Rio Acie Salim & Rich.We need a clutch player for the end of games & a strong garbageman big instead of Zaza.Along with the obvious.(A coach that can use all the talent we have in the right situations).Do that we’ll be good for a very long time.

By SalimFan

March 25, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

Salim is better offensively than Acie Law peroid. A blid person could see that. Why don’t you compare their career highs just to start. Salim got tat career high in his rookie year whaen he was acually on woodson’s good side.

Barbosa can’t shoot no matter how many shots he makes. his form is horrible. Just watch him shoot his Free throws. Barbosa is a 2 whose not talented enough to play the 2 therefore phoenix plays him at the on. When Brazil played the USA in tha Pan am games kobe shut him down. I think he only had like five points.

Coaching is the only reason salim isn’t playing right now.

By ray

March 25, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

Today in the News:

Okay, okay. So I’m late with my headliner. Now I just know the minute I finish this, Sekou will institute a new blog (which would be nice, actually) and anyone who wants to read my silliness will have to come back to this one. Oh well…

A crime Florida. Sources say that Hawks head coach Mike Woodson was the victim of a strange crime while his team was in Orlando to play the Magic. Having just returned from dinner, he discovered that his hotel room had been absolutely trashed! However, all of his personal belongings were left alone. The items taken were the board that he draws up game plays, all writing instruments or utensils in the area, and anything that could be written on. Even the toilet paper was gone! Consequently, he was unable to draw up a single play for the Orlando game….Officials have not been able to identify a suspect, but several players are being questioned…

The Three Trolls Saga: The Return. You knew it was going to happen eventually. A troll would get loose, and do the evil deeds that trolls like to do. And so it happens that the troll named Terrance has come out of hiding and seeks to poison the blog faithful with yet another abomination? This week’s folly? An article about Dominique Wilkins’ involvement with our young forwards. Now wait a minute. You mean to tell me that Dominique hasn’t been allowed to influence or work with the players? Holy mother of….what was that sound? Oh, it was Jerome Jurenovich fainting…

But seriously (okay, not so seriously), just because Dominique said that Marvin Williams is the kind of player that only comes around every ten years, does NOT MEAN HE’S DUMB! Just because his post game commentary is as simplistic as one of John Madden’s drunken rants, it does NOT MEAN HE’S DUMB! He’s the human highlight film! He’s been working with Josh Smith and….wait a minute. The human highlight film…working with Josh Smith. So what has he been teaching Josh Smith? Hmmmm…well, they don’t call him the Human Fundamental, they don’t call him the Human Jump Shot…it’s the Human Highlight…so what IS he teaching Josh? Better yet, what has Josh been doing differently here lately, since Dominique has been working with him? I wonder if your answer is the same as mine…

In related news, Dominique Wilkins has been quoted as saying that any and all of his input and contributions have been ignored in the past. However, with this (alleged and alluded to) “new ownership” , he’s being allowed to work with the forwards. NEW OWNERSHIP? What NEW OWNERSHIP? When did this “involvement” of his start? This year? Last year? Three years ago? I can tell you this much, if Dominique has been working with Josh Smith on his game for the last year or two, we can all stop blaming Josh for making the same mistakes year to year…

In other news, Mike Woodson returned to Phillips Arena only to find that his office was ransacked in much the same manner as his hotel room in Orlando. All writing utensils, black boards, and paper products had been removed. Even his secret stash of sharpies and his custom etch-a-sketch was gone. “I don’t understand it” Mike Woodson was quoted as saying. “Who would do a thing like this? How am I supposed to draw up plays NOW?” The suspect is considered to be still at large, but authorities are having difficulty determining whether or not an acutal crime has been committed…

Meanwhile, the Blog Crimes Unit has refused to take the case, citing a “conflict of interest.” One person who spoke on condition of anonymity, had this to say: “What’s odd is that when coach Woodson didn’t have his game play drawing board…we won those games. If we…uh, I mean they…uh..whoever it was that did this…had thought of this earlier, we…I mean, uh..the Hawks…would’ve probably won more games this year.” Hmmmmmm.

And that’s all for now…

By jami$$ion

March 25, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this

A SALIMFAN.I to would like to keep salim.And they can also call me crazy but ,to me.In college his game was just as good if not better than acie.For ten years I did nothing but, beat on sports and i won more than i lost.Lou had to play hind ai & now miller.Salim doesn’t get a chance to play period.And even though we have a good nucleus now,he & rio should a been getting burn then(over lue & aj).Dam that true pg center sh!t.Put the best players on the court.As far as Ellis.Woody wouldn’t played him either

By mykhalc

March 25, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

SalimFan, i did not know the those glasses were as thick as coke bottles!!!! geeesshhhh if SALIM could ‘learn’ to break down his defender like ACIE and get to the rim that would be a start!!! i won’t even comment on your BARBOSA theory!!! you showed your game on that one!!!

BIG RAY, let’s hope they never find the clip board!!!!LOL

ANDO, But the NBA exposes every weakness, whether it’s physical, or just an aspect of a kid’s game that doesn’t hold up under the pressure of the big stage. ….says it perfectly…what SALIM has run into since college!!! his game just does NOT translate on this level!!!

By MannyT

March 25, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

Ray you called it!

New blog is up!

By the way, I think they should just replace all Woody’s writing tools with similar looking ones that have that UV ink that only shows up under black lights.

Those plays are best left in the dark.

WAF

By Ken Strickland

March 25, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

DOC-I wanted to make a final comment on the Falcons blog without getting attacked by the resident racist element. I forgot to switch back after leaving the blog, sorry. That’s actually my 1st time posting under a different name. Can’t you tell.