Hawks

By Da Professa

March 19, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

They shouldn’t have a problem with the Nets. I think they will end up with a better record than them. All we need to do is take care of business against the teams we are supposed to beat. The Hawks have showed that they can beat anyone when their head is in the game. The problem is sometimes with young players, a loss here and there can get the mind to wandering. I think the Hawks simply think too much sometimes. Just go out there and have fun and they should blow out the Nets plain and simple.

By Melvin

March 19, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Alot ride on this game for the Hawks tonite. A Hawks win and Philly loss would put us 3 games behind the 76ers and 2 games ahead of the Nets and Bulls… Go Hawks.

By terrell barron

March 19, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Avery Johnson might be out in Dallas, if they dont make the WC Finals. Is he a good fit for the Hawks? He’s young, enthusiastic, and he a Nellie disciple. Hey Sekou, I heard that the Hawks have shown interest in Donnie Walsh. I guess this means the end of the Woody, BK regime. Playoffs or not! Mary B, I think you meant Mark Jackson, who I mentioned a year ago to replace Woodpecker. Good luck in Jersey fellas.

By Paul D

March 19, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

I like our chances tonight. With Delvin Harris, the new trade averaging over 16 for the Nets, being questionable from an ankle sprain, we can really go in there and do something.

The Hawks are really playing as a cohesive unit (no thanks to coach) and the team’s confidence is building. I’ll be tuned in! Go Hawks! Time to get my playoff tickets!

By Sekou K. Smith

March 19, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Terrell,

No offense to my “colleagues” up here in New Yawk, but these rumblings and rumors that get passed off as news in some of these publications here is down right foolishness.

That said, I wouldn’t care what the team, they’d bee nuts not to want Donnie Walsh if there was an opening and he was free (which he is not right now). He is one of the best there’s ever been in the NBA. I think he’s never received full credit for building Indiana into the powerhouse that it was for so long.

But I don’t think the BK-Woody regime, as you put it, is going anywhere until this playoff race is sorted out. If the Hawks make it, it’s going to be awful hard to clean house around here.

But that’s a conversation (and set of stories) for later.

By doc

March 19, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

maybe donnie can come in as president of the whole organization since the position is needed and open and hold onto billy who is one of his boys. talk about bouying confidence.

aj your remedy will certainly make you feel better especially if it is followed with a pint or two of good heavy brew. you might even be able to improve your range of motion if you use the affected arm to lift the glass and wave it around as you salute all present and past; or maybe the frozen shoulder is because of the affliction of lifting the glass too often as we did not indeed look to the root cause. ;_) just thought it too personal to ask in this venue.

By Barry

March 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

The Haks have to earn every win they get. I do not care who one the other team is injured or not. they have to play their style of ball and run other teams out of the gym. They (the HAWKS) do not have the luxury of not playing hard. Even though they are playing better, they have not yet developed into that team that makes other teams afraid of them. They have to prove themselves every night with hot, running basketball. The are developing into something we have not seen all year. They are maturing into stars before our eyes. Let’s sit back and enjoy it. However, these Hawk cannot sit back at all. They have to “GO TO WORK RUNNING AND GUNNIG!”

By Barry

March 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

The Haks have to earn every win they get. I do not care who one the other team is injured or not. they have to play their style of ball and run other teams out of the gym. They (the HAWKS) do not have the luxury of not playing hard. Even though they are playing better, they have not yet developed into that team that makes other teams afraid of them. They have to prove themselves every night with hot, running basketball. The are developing into something we have not seen all year. They are maturing into stars before our eyes. Let’s sit back and enjoy it. However, these Hawk cannot sit back at all. They have to “GO TO WORK RUNNING AND GUNNIG!”

By Barry

March 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

The Haks have to earn every win they get. I do not care who one the other team is injured or not. they have to play their style of ball and run other teams out of the gym. They (the HAWKS) do not have the luxury of not playing hard. Even though they are playing better, they have not yet developed into that team that makes other teams afraid of them. They have to prove themselves every night with hot, running basketball. The are developing into something we have not seen all year. They are maturing into stars before our eyes. Let’s sit back and enjoy it. However, these Hawk cannot sit back at all. They have to “GO TO WORK RUNNING AND GUNNIG!”

By Barry

March 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

The Haks have to earn every win they get. I do not care who one the other team is injured or not. they have to play their style of ball and run other teams out of the gym. They (the HAWKS) do not have the luxury of not playing hard. Even though they are playing better, they have not yet developed into that team that makes other teams afraid of them. They have to prove themselves every night with hot, running basketball. The are developing into something we have not seen all year. They are maturing into stars before our eyes. Let’s sit back and enjoy it. However, these Hawk cannot sit back at all. They have to “GO TO WORK RUNNING AND GUNNIG!”

By Barry

March 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

The Haks have to earn every win they get. I do not care who one the other team is injured or not. they have to play their style of ball and run other teams out of the gym. They (the HAWKS) do not have the luxury of not playing hard. Even though they are playing better, they have not yet developed into that team that makes other teams afraid of them. They have to prove themselves every night with hot, running basketball. The are developing into something we have not seen all year. They are maturing into stars before our eyes. Let’s sit back and enjoy it. However, these Hawk cannot sit back at all. They have to “GO TO WORK RUNNING AND GUNNIG!”

By Barry

March 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

The Haks have to earn every win they get. I do not care who one the other team is injured or not. they have to play their style of ball and run other teams out of the gym. They (the HAWKS) do not have the luxury of not playing hard. Even though they are playing better, they have not yet developed into that team that makes other teams afraid of them. They have to prove themselves every night with hot, running basketball. The are developing into something we have not seen all year. They are maturing into stars before our eyes. Let’s sit back and enjoy it. However, these Hawk cannot sit back at all. They have to “GO TO WORK RUNNING AND GUNNIG!”

By Barry

March 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

The Haks have to earn every win they get. I do not care who one the other team is injured or not. they have to play their style of ball and run other teams out of the gym. They (the HAWKS) do not have the luxury of not playing hard. Even though they are playing better, they have not yet developed into that team that makes other teams afraid of them. They have to prove themselves every night with hot, running basketball. The are developing into something we have not seen all year. They are maturing into stars before our eyes. Let’s sit back and enjoy it. However, these Hawk cannot sit back at all. They have to “GO TO WORK RUNNING AND GUNNIG!”

By Barry

March 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

The Haks have to earn every win they get. I do not care who one the other team is injured or not. they have to play their style of ball and run other teams out of the gym. They (the HAWKS) do not have the luxury of not playing hard. Even though they are playing better, they have not yet developed into that team that makes other teams afraid of them. They have to prove themselves every night with hot, running basketball. The are developing into something we have not seen all year. They are maturing into stars before our eyes. Let’s sit back and enjoy it. However, these Hawk cannot sit back at all. They have to “GO TO WORK RUNNING AND GUNNIG!”

By Barry

March 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Hey Y’all:

The Haks have to earn every win they get. I do not care who one the other team is injured or not. they have to play their style of ball and run other teams out of the gym. They (the HAWKS) do not have the luxury of not playing hard. Even though they are playing better, they have not yet developed into that team that makes other teams afraid of them. They have to prove themselves every night with hot, running basketball. The are developing into something we have not seen all year. They are maturing into stars before our eyes. Let’s sit back and enjoy it. However, these Hawk cannot sit back at all. They have to “GO TO WORK RUNNING AND GUNNIG!”

By richbrave

March 19, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

The problem is not Walsh or anyone of his abilities. The problem is what competant soul wants to be involved with the ASG. Anyone with a grain of sense is not going to put themselves into the morass that is the Spirit Group. They need a 50% owner who will whip the others into shape, and instill some common sense into the ownership. FIRE THE ASG!!

By doc

March 19, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

barry is teaching us all how to scroll. it is his attempt to help us in anger management.

By terrell barron

March 19, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Yeah, thats what I meant Sekou, when I said Playoffs or not. They’re gone at the end of the season. Would’nt you say?

By fudd21

March 19, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

DANG!! Did I count that right. Did BARRY just post the same message 9 times.

I fully expect the Hawks to come out and play aggressive tonight. If they do then I see them bringing home a win and loads of confidence for our young team. Confidence goes a very long way especially for young guys. I think alot of people forget but our whole front line, Al, Josh, and Marvin, should all be seniors in college this year. GO HAWKS!!

By terrell barron

March 19, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Why should it be hard to clean house, if we make it? You only have to win 35 games, to make the Playoffs in the East. Woody better not get a pass, just because we MADE THE PLAYOFFS. Hell, an AAU team could make it in the East. We should be fighting for the 3rd spot, not TRYING TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. Give me a break!

By Chikara

March 19, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Barry, I hope it was a mistake that you hit the enter button more than once…..lol j/k, great to see enthusiastic fans putting it all out there as we head down the stretch.

….anyway, hey guys! After watching Atlanta handle their business at the phone booth I’ve been waiting for a meaningful game from this team since the Mookie & Smitty days! They are going to have to make shots tonight because NJ plays a similar style and have the athletes to keep up with the Hawks. They can’t afford to have Jefferson get going. To play it safe I’d have JChill enter the game early to play D on him. Josh Smith should have an advantage at the 4 so we’ll see what happens.

Horford will be the difference tonight as the Hawks win, and Clyde will gladly eat his crow with salt & pepper. (Couldn’t resist!)

Sekou I heard that David Stern commenting about changes about to be made in the Knicks front office next year. Whether they are true or not it bothers me that he hasn’t said one word about the Hawks. I understand that the Knicks are the “marquee” team because they are in NY, but doesn’t it look bad that the commissioner may have something to do with what goes on there, yet the Hawks situation remains with no end in sight or comment from the commish?

Atlanta could become a major marketing force in the league with its entertainment connections and a high flying team of athletes.

By terrell barron

March 19, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

We heard you the 1st time Barry!

By fudd21

March 19, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Terrell I think they are gone at the end of the season regardless. Even if the go on a streak and finish 13-5 or 14-4 over the last 18 games, I still think both will be gone. None of us would complain with the record, but there have been too many times when the Hawks just looked unprepared, unmotivated, undisciplined to play and that falls on the coach.

As for Billy we all can talk about the Marvin and CP3 year, but to me the Sheldon draft was a debacle and totally unacceptable. That to me is reason by itself for BK to go. LOL!

By TheHawksFan

March 19, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Thats the 2nd time I heard about the train ride. Is the ASG really that damn cheap? Here is your half million dollar paycheck and a bag lunch for the road trip. Oh well, a trip to the playoffs and things are going to start looking up aroound here. The Hawks are getting back to the form that had me worked up to start the year. 7 and 1 preseason yeah it really did happen. When these guys come to play there isnt too many teams in the league thats better. JJ is the key. He is really turning it on. Woody trying to “Coach” also. Postseason here we come!!! Hell yeah bring on Boston, they will be spent in about a month. Allen is limping and PP is a whiny little biatch. KG is the truth but his power meter runs down during the playoffs. Swept my azzz!!Lets goooo Hawks!!!!

By I.MUS WRITE

March 19, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

BARRY- Please take your paws off the keyboard one click is enough…..Thought it wuz ground hoggs day Terrell- I never thought about Avery johnson and the hawks,but if he is canned in Dallas……….I think he will be a good coach for our yungnz. He has won a title as a player and was really a floor general who knew the game,and how to run an offense.

Unlike Coach X this guy knows X’s and O’s……..

By Hawksville Resident

March 19, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Hey Barry, I think we get your point. lol Tonight’s game will be huge and I do here Boston is beautiful in the Springtime except for if your walking around with am Al Horford jersey on during a playoff series..Then it might get ugly! That being said IF we make it, I’ll have to take my chances and bring a big crew because I’ve been waiting for this for too long!

Sekou, you also talked about it being hard to fire Woody if we make the playoffs.. I think he’s gone regardless BK too. I just really think that mthe ASG sent a msg to Billy when they didn’t allow him to fire Woody that his days were numbered and if he’s gone his boy with the .300 winning percentage is definitely gone as well. The best Woody can do is make the playoffs to atleast maybe have a chance at future employment in this league.

Hawksville

By Melvin

March 19, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Barry, You did know that it will take up to 5 minutes before you could see your post on the blog….lol

By Jo Bling

March 19, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

terrell - IF the Hawks make the playoffs, then Woody and Billy will have fulfilled their obligation. They will have met their performance target for the year. They’re not going anywhere. Give ‘em a raise, one more year, and start getting ready for next year. End of story.

By DarkRyder

March 19, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Get it through your heads people, Woody’s not going anywhere if the Hawks make the playoffs!

Besides, even if they did I hope they wouldn’t replace him with Avery Johnson, who’s known as a micro manager and he would be a deterrent for this team. After he got outcoached against Don Nelson of all people in last year’s playoffs Dallas can keep him.

terrell I do believe that BK will be gone simply because the sorry ss ASG will believe that they don’t need him. Woody will survive simply because they will look at the fact Atlanta made the playoffs, *if they make it. They aren’t the 3rd best team so I don’t know what you’re smoking. They’re 6th at best.

By MannyT

March 19, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Barry, he’s a cancer…scroll…scroll on…scroll on…scroll on.

Big times at the lower end of the eastern conference. These games are more meaningful than the ones that Boston & Detroit are playing right now.

If the Hawks typical lousy quarter is not the 4th quarter, they should win.

Just for Clyde, I’ll keep a stopwatch on Sean Williams to see if he can get a block before Solo (based on time in the game.) If Solo gets a block quicker, you have to end this Sean Williams stuff (at least for a few days.)

Let’s see how Al-ROY holds up head to head against Sean.

Let’s go Hawks!

By Astro Joe

March 19, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Doc, my wife thinks it’s from blogging all day. What the heck do women know?

Gearon and crew need to know that they have a replacement lined up before they dump anyone. Including someone who gets the requisite blessing from Belkin. Or Don Waddell will end up being GM and Head Coach of Thrashers AND Hawks. 4 titles for an annual salary of $25,000. You’ve gotta love that ownership group.

By Melvin

March 19, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Let’s see. If the Hawks could put togther a 8 or 9 game winning streak. They could possibly move up to the 5th spot. Examine closely…

Toronto 34-33, 2-8(Last 10 games) Washington 33-33, 6-4(L10) Philly 33-34, 8-2(L10) Hawks 29-38, 4-6(L10

The HAWKS have a good chances to pickup a game on the Wizards and 76ers with a win against the Nets tonite. Considering that it’s a good chance Philly could lose to Denver and Washington could lose to Orlando tonite….. Man, those 4 losses to the Bobcats (2), Supersonics (1) and Clippers (1) will come back to haunt the Hawks..

By chc4

March 19, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

I hope Jo Bling is joking. Making the playoffs with all this talent in the sorry East is hardly much of an accomplishment. Of course, we are talking about the ASG so to them, it is. What a nightmare!!

By Melvin

March 19, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Cylde, If it makes you feel any better. I watch the begining of the Bull/Nets game last nite. Your boy Sean Williams did start and scored the 1st 2pts of the game…. Sorry but I didn’t see him do too much after that before I turn back the Mavs/Lakers game…. I agree with you DarkRyder, Avery does tend to micro manage….

By chc4

March 19, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

I hope Jo Bling is joking. Making the playoffs with all this talent in the sorry East is hardly much of an accomplishment. Of course, we are talking about the ASG so to them, it is. What a nightmare!!

By jonathan friedman

March 19, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

Sekou - My son and I will be at game early tonight, We have red hair, you won’t miss us. We would love to talk to you if you get a chance. They’re won’t be a big crowd, hawks have to stay focused and play defense.

By Clyde

March 19, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

All I have to say is Sean Williams has 30 more blocks than Al and Al has played 900 more minutes than Sean. Take it how you want it.

drmaryb what I was saying on the last blog was that Maurice Cheeks has done a good job with a lot less talent. Doc Rivers was crying last year that he didn’t have the talent but this year Maurice Cheeks has a bunch of scrubs in the playoff hunt. Good coaches make the most of what they got.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By RUN

March 19, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Will be at the game tonight too wearing my road JJ jersey. LETS TAKE OVER THIS IDZIOT CENTER!!!!!

By jonathan friedman

March 19, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

RUN, listen for us tonight, section 123 row 25. Will be screaming J S M O T H with the JAM!

By Joshua

March 19, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Look it’s simple win now or never , Josh Smith and Josh Childress need to step and earn there new contracts or else maybe the team needs a clean sweep in the off season . By that I mean every player evaluated and the whole upper echelon from gm to the popcorn sellers need to be looked at closely .

By Joshua

March 19, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Look at it this way it’s time to clean house and if they don’t win fire everyone , Also I want to see Nique as the next GM . He has Hawks pride and he knows the NBA . But I think it’s time for Josh Smith and Childress to step up . Bibby and Johnson are earning there bones but they need help

By Joshua

March 19, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Look at it this way it’s time to clean house and if they don’t win fire everyone , Also I want to see Nique as the next GM . He has Hawks pride and he knows the NBA . But I think it’s time for Josh Smith and Childress to step up . Bibby and Johnson are earning there bones but they need help

By Chikara

March 19, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Clyde what makes you think the Sixers have less talent than the Hawks? Between Andre Miller, Igulodala (sp), Dalembert and the rookie they are a talented team, even in the East. Besides, as opposed to the Hawks I think the Sixers truly enjoy playing for their coach.

I’m not defending Woodson by any stretch, but I do believe that he is doing a better job of making substitutions as he got JChill in the game early against the Wizards. He has realized that Bibby is a PG who knows how to lead an offense and is deferring to him more often.

I think all it took for Atlanta to regain some confidence was to win against some weaker teams. It has provided them an opportunity to get their offense in gear.

Tonight will be the true barometer however. They cannot afford to let both Jefferson and Carter go off. Horford must continue to play relentless as he has the past two games.

Oh, and in case Sean Williams drops a 10 pt 20 rebound night I will defer to Clyde for all future Hawks decisions. Ciao ;)

By Jo Bling

March 19, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Clyde - this is a new blog. Let’s drop the idiotic Sean Williams is better than Al Horford business. OK?

chc4 - I don’t think I’m joking. I think one, and probably both, will stay if the Hawks make the playoffs. The only reason I can see one leaving would be a result of the public exposure of Knight’s desire to fire Woodson. I’m not sure how the two can continue to work together with that out on the table. But, as far as the ownership is concerned, I fully believe that the only expectation is that the Hawks make the playoffs this year, thereby completing the “next step” in carefully calculated rebuilding process. I don’t sense there was any expectation that they win a certain number of games - only that they make the playoffs.

Here’s a quote from Michael Gearon in an article Sekou wrote back before the season started:

“This is absolutely 100 percent Billy’s blueprint and the one we believed in from the start and still believe in,” part owner and NBA governor Michael Gearon Jr. said. “We made a commitment to build the right way. We knew we’d take some lumps and licks but we were committed to building our house the right way, and we’re not wavering from that plan.

“We have high expectations, long-term expectations, for this team. And this is what we’ve been working hard for the last several years, to get to this point where we have a very athletic, deep team that wouldn’t be some one-year wonder, but a team with a core group of guys capable of being competitive for many years in our league.”

Whatever miscues have been made along the way - and there have been many - the Hawks are still on pace as far as their development plan is concerned. Each year they’ve gotten a little bit better, assuming this one culminates with a playoff berth. If that happens, I don’t see how you can fire Woodson or Knight. They’ve met their targets, and - slowly, slowly, slowly - they are turning this team into a winner.

By Big Red

March 19, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

If Mike Bibby can play like he did on a consistant bases and Marvin keeps shooting a high persentage, I think the hawks will cause problems for whoever they play in the first round if they make it. But so far Mike Bibby is very inconsistant and that has me worried. I kind of miss T-Lue.

By MannyT

March 19, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Clyde I am not picking, but I believe that most coaches have 1 or 2 strong coaching concepts. Better coaches are more flexible. Cheeks is ok, but not great. He makes the most of the current team, but he didn’t do much better when he had Iverson.

Woody’s thing is defense. Unfortunately, defense is not the strong suit of most of these Hawks players. Oddly, you would run off his best interior man on man defender—Al-ROY, in favor of a guy that is probably better as an off the ball swoop in blocker. I think we already have one of those guys in Josh Smith who does the other parts of the game much better than Sean W.

BK’s GM style leans toward the angular athletic types, regardless of position. (He probably liked Rondo’s long arms more than CPaul’s quickness in a small package or DWilliams strong, but full frame.) Even the new PG isn’t a strong defender—but he does contribute more than the guys he replaced.

The 2 don’t match, so you are half right…one probably needs to go away in the long run.

So your updated shirts might read…Fire Billy OR Woody.

By MannyT

March 19, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Joshua I think the lady that sells me the $5 tub of jumbo popcorn could fill it up more. That’s a knock against her customer satisfaction rating, but it may help the ASG with profitability.

Does she stay or does she go ;-)

By DUDE DUDE

March 19, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!! A-TOWN IS ROOTING FOR YA!!!!!

By Ken Strickland

March 19, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

I don’t see BK being retained regardless of the season’s outcome. They’ve already usurped his authority and prevented him from doing his job. However, they did back Woodson when the team was in a losing funk. So why expect them to fire him if the team is on the upswing and makes the playoffs.

If we’re hitting our outside shots, we’ll win tonight. Otherwise, we are a better running team and play much better DEF than New Jersey. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I just love JChills’ game. The versatility, efficiency, smoothness, and he operates inside like a silent assassin.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Once again, I will point out that in the 2003-2004 season when Detroit won the championship, the 6’8” Ben Wallace averaged 2.9 blocks per 36 minutes while the 7’0” Darko Milicic averaged 3.4 blocks per 36 minutes.

Apparently Clyde’s the kind of guy who would have started Darko over Big Ben.

By Brian Piccolo

March 19, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Barry

By Brian Piccolo

March 19, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

is

By Brian Piccolo

March 19, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

an idiot

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

I thought I should say this, since there’s been a lot of talk recently about the Sixers and what they have done with relatively little talent on their team.

Before everyone starts fellating the 76ers, to quote Woody Paige, “LOOK AT THE SCHEDULE!” Who exactly have they beat during this stretch over the last month and a half? The only winning teams they have beat are Dallas (a legitimately good win), Phoenix when they were still trying to figure out how to work Shaq into the mix, and Orlando (another legitimately good win). Every other team they beat was terrible (Miami, Milwaukee, etc.) or injury-depleted (Washington).

Meanwhile, a lot of people have made a big deal out of the Hawks’ poor record since the Bibby acquisition. Well, let’s see who they have played since he arrived. At Arco Arena, one of the toughest home courts in the league. At 5 different Western Conference playoff contenders. A couple of home games against non-contenders mixed in, which they won. Five losses at Boston, vs Golden State, at New Orleans, at Orlando, and vs Houston — all playoff contenders, some of them Finals contenders. A terrible loss to Charlotte, and four wins against non-contenders or injury depleted teams. Sure, they have gone 5-10 or whatever since Bibby arrived, but that was their toughest stretch of games all year.

Of the Hawks’ remaining games, only 6 are against playoff teams, all in the East — two against Orlando, two against Philly, and one each against Boston and Toronto. Meanwhile Philly still has games at Cleveland, at Boston, at Phoenix (who is a lot better now than when they beat them), vs Denver, at Orlando, at Washington, vs Detroit, vs Cleveland, and the two back-to-backs vs Atlanta all against current playoff teams. It’s safe to say this is probably one of the toughest stretches of their schedule.

Looking at the schedule it’s pretty reasonable to assume that the Hawks will gain at least two games on the Sixers before the season is over if each team keeps playing the way it is right now. With a little luck that number could easily become four or five, and if it does the Hawks find themselves in at least the 7 spot, maybe the 6th if Washington has a hard time meshing with Gilbert Arenas when he gets back.

It’s well within reach based on the schedule. It’s on Woodson and the Hawks to make it happen.

By Chikara

March 19, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Najeh from what we’re hearing in DC it looks at if Gilbert won’t be back until April, which doesn’t not bode well for the Wizards considering they are about to play 7 of their next 8 games on the road, and that one home game is against Detroit.

Not to get ahead of myself (I do that sometimes) but it’s very conceivable that if Atlanta wins tonight they could actually be in position to catch the Wizards as well.

I’m glad you mentioned that the Hawks were bringing in Bibby during their roughest stretch of the season. A reason Sekou argued that they should’ve made that trade in January, but what’s done is done.

But it’s like you said, it all comes down to tonight. I don’t know about the rest of you but March Madness starts TONIGHT as far as I’m concerned!

By JL

March 19, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

14 left of which winning 10 of those would probably solidify a playoff slot.

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Hey Clyde

Mark Jackson is the other point guard I was thinking of with Indiana and ending up in New York’s - MSG.

I became a Hawks Fan in ‘86 when I moved to the A. Nique and those guys were ROCK STARS

Mo Cheeks was in Philly I think & at the end of his career. I remember his DEFENSE and STEALS intensity. I love what he’s doing in Philly - he’s the man!

I just read an article where WOODY was talking about how great HORFORD is exceeding everyone’s expectations on and off the court.

WOODY said, “I love this Guy and he has had a positive influence in my LIFE!** Man, that is a huge compliment. He had a similar respect for BIBBY when he first got here:

He said, “..If Mike doesn’t like my play? - he can change it. I trust his knowledge of the game and his decision making ability..” (to that effect)

I wish you would give WOODY some credit for supporting his players that way. These kids like playing for WOODY, they get upset when people are saying Fire Him. Woody is also a ROOKIE, give the man a chance to learn and get better too! He never had anything close to a real floor general since day-one. That ain’t his fault, and now he’s calling out BILLY on that. Why Not?

I think the 80’s PG’s make really really good coaches.

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Chikara

Hey girl! I don’t think that BIBBY trade would have been possible back in January. I think the KINGS were waiting to see who had the best offer for BIBBY.

They knew that in the WIlD-WILD-WEST? They would never make the playoffs! They’re dumping salaries and rebuilding now.

I always coveted BIBBY. The past three years I dreamed of him coming here. I really like his leadership.

I noticed Reggie Theus gave him a back-handed compliment after the HAWKS beat them here. He was qouted, saying that BIBBY was talking to the players and rallying the kids to make plays and giving instructions to Horford and J-Smoove.

Basically, he was saying that BIBBY was being a VOCAL LEADER based on what Reggie saw on Game Film. He went on to say he was SURPRISED to see that and that BIBBY would have to grow into that type of player?

He felt like BIBBY didn’t do that for them. Heck, could you imagine BIBBY trying to tell ARTEST what to do and where to go? I just think that team was too old and dysfuntional not to mention Reggie Theus may be a little controlling too.

Here, these are 20 -23 year old kids. They will listen to a player like BIBBY! They admire him and Bibby feels needed, wanted and appreciated here. He will stabalize this team and save WOODY’s Job - I Think!

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Hey PaulD Devin Harris doesn’t strike fear in my heart. He’s so small and thin in the post. J-Smoove will neutralize him under the baskets.

There are no lay-ups in A-Town baby. He’s starting to change a lot of shots that he’s not blocking. People now know that J-Smoove comes to play every night. I like his passion, I can’t wait to see him get re-signed this summer. He deserves the money. With BIBBY? no more 6 TO’s per game. No assists either, but that’s O.K.? But his jumper from 12’-15’ is better too.

Josh is improving with BIBBY’s play. He takes pressure off of everybody and he calms the team down in crunch time. They are Jellin’ now. Go Hawks!

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling

Great Post up! I think you are dead on correct about the State of Affairs at Phillips Arena. If Billy & Woody fulfill their obligation to make the Playoffs? I think we will see both extended - for that and another reason too.

Because, the ASG is so unstable? It doesn’t make sense to change key positions while owership is in despair.

I think Belkin is blocking a lot of decisions anyway. Until we have a single minded ownership? This is as good as it gets. At least we’re winning for now!

Other teams do see us as a real and credible threat. Don’t be like DALLAS and overlook the Warriors. That got them beat in Round 1 - remember?

By Clyde

March 19, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Now since all of you dont want to trade al and think that he is our franchise player of something, how about we trade joe or josh, we could get a draft pick from them, if we trade both to miami for their pick we could get beasley, BEASLEY

By Da Professa

March 19, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

Clyde, no need in rebuilding now, only fine tuning. Not saying we have a powerhouse, but this is what we got. All we have to do is put some size on this team and we should compete. Just someone to block shots and get rebounds. We should be able to get that in the draft but you never know with Knight.

By honest_abe

March 19, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

woody is still a rookie? huh? so does a coach have to be fired before he’s not considered a rookie coach?? i thought a rookie coach would be one in his first year. oooh well i guess thats just me.

By RA

March 19, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Well, I’m a strong believer in the Stone Wall Jackson style of competition, you get your enemy on his heels and keep attacking until he starts running and then when he’s running, you keep going until you wipe him out utterly. That’s what the Hawks need to do with the Nets. Destroy them, utterly.

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Hey terrell barron

Great Post up there. MMMMMH! Avery Johnson? He’s become a west coast guy through and through. He is quite a character, he could certainly make these HAWKS run that’s for sure.

The thing I question with Avery-J is his DEFENSE or shall I say, lack there of. But, I do like him, he’s a character..more like a caricature-sp!

I like Nellie Ball too! Yeah Mark Jackson is exactly who I was thinking of. It drove me crazy for 3 straight hours until his name popped in my head. I think he wants to be a HC. He intimated that some 4-5 years ago on TNT with Ernie, Kenny and the Chuck-ster. What about PG-Greg Anthony? would he be a good HC?

What ever happened to the streaky - John Starks of the Knicks with Pat Riley ‘Nem. I liked his heart! A true Killer…he would rip your heart out! Whew! CP3-MVP will we ever recover from that miss? It’s like Portland passing on MJ…..SAD! because it was such an obvious choice. (Even Stevie Wonder could see that!)

I’m ready for a new group of rookie HC’s.

No more Larry “Bad-Attitude”-Brown’s Puh-Lease! New Kids -Need New Drinks! The game has passed the Larry Browns by.

These new players lack serious fundamental skills. They come so young and so raw now-a-days! That’s why the old school coaches have no patience with them. (i.e. Brown -vs- A.I.)

Woody had been using the bench like Lenny 1000 wins Wilkens. No PT past player #6..Smitty’s Knees were squeaking pretty loud & still played 48 mins a night.

But the past three games I see Woody using the Bench and less Marvin too!
That my friend - might save his job!

By terrell barron

March 19, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

Sekou, too bad about Terrelle Pryor. He see he chose your arch rival.

By cp

March 19, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

I hope Bibby has another good shooting game. If Bibby shot is on and Duck gives us something I think we can win. The Nets looked as if they had mailed it in last night against the Bulls. Richard Jefferson seemed to be the only guy out there who cared. We cant take this team lightly. I want us to put them away convincingly.

By AtlFlavor

March 19, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Al’s awards have started to come in. Story is up on NBA.com He is a special one. Good game tonight. Hawks win by 8.

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Sweet doing good so far but we need to be better defensively

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Man vince carter is killing us with his passing

By new jersey faithful

March 19, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

THESE REFS ARE THE WORST!!!!!!

By Sekou K. Smith

March 19, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Best first quarter of basketball I’ve seen involving the Hawks all season. Hands down.

By champ

March 19, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

ATLANTA HAWKS BASKETBALL BABY!!! They only gave up 37 points to a team that averages 94 a game and is 27th in the NBA. Keep teaching them that D Woody!

By Mac-Town

March 19, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

can someone tell me why we give up so many easy lay-ups and dunks ?

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

I hope your not serious sekou

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

Zaza Pachulia - bad player, or the WORST player?

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

When vince is driving to the basket chillz is always leaving his man and trying to double vince and the free man rolls inside for a dunk..

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Lol clydes boy missed a dunk..

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Woooo look at that run and al got fouled on that monster dunk, take a look at als number btw,

8 points, 6 rebounds and 4 assists

By terrell barron

March 19, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Great look Chill, way to finish Big Al. Looking good fellas!

By Melvin

March 19, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

4 mins left in the 2nd qt and the highflying, shotblocking Sean Williams has already dunk on twice, got his shot block and missed a wide open dunk…..

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

In a nice little five-minute sequence, Sean Williams misses a wide open dunk and Al Horford comes down to the other end a few possessions later and dunks it in his face.

Outstanding.

By Astro Joe

March 19, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

I’d feel a lot better about this game if Nets were not on a pace to score 110 points.

Uh, Clyde, did you see Horfrod throw down on the pot-head?

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

I think Barry posted up for the next nine days. HA HA

Maybe he knows something that we don’t? Going away for a while? What happened - did you get 9-days at county lock-up?

Well, them’ posts should hold your spot till you get back. LOL

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

This is what im talking about up by 10 in the half but have to stop carter he is blowing by everyone especially joe…

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

AL HORFORD _ ROY must have heard CLYDE was trying to package him. He’s willing the HAWKS to VICTORY - son. This Big-Cat ain’t going no where - baby!

By terrell barron

March 19, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Hey Clyde, I hope you saw that. Al just muscled the ball away from about 3 Nets, and scored. WOW!

By Sekou K. Smith

March 19, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I’m serious. It’s playoff thick in here man. Playoff thick. There’s no defense, of course. But the offense is off the charts.

By Melvin

March 19, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

How many more dunks are the Hawks are going to allow the Nets to have? I think I counted at least 10 dunks (should have been 11, thanks to Sean Williams) and 8 layups… We need to buckle down on defense and stop allowing guys to drive the lane…

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

In defense of Sean Williams, though, I will say one thing:

Ain’t nothin’ wrong with smoking weed. Weed is from the earth. God put this here for me and you. Take advantage, man.

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

My bad 12 points 4 assists and 9 rebounds !!!

By jhan

March 19, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

Williams is absolutely owning the paint in the first half!!

We look just as pathetic though.

By jami$$ion

March 19, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

CLYDE, when we make the playoffs we are only going to get better?I WILL NOT TRADE JOSH SMITH OR JJ (A FUTURE AND PRESENT ALLSTAR UNLESS IT WAS FOR ANOTHER ALLSTAR). Why would i trade for a pick.I don’t know that a pan out?U build teams by winning.U win players will come for cheap in search for a title.We need a couple of clutch vets next year.A vet big & clutch vet guard(a fisher cassell bobby jackson type) and we’ll be good.A coaching upgrade like ORLANDO did in the offseason.Resign what we have.NOMO ROOKS

By Chikara

March 19, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Didn’t I say that Horford would be the difference in this game? He is willing this team to win this game. Keep crashing those boards and let’s maintain focus!

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Wow! ROY might post a triple - double tonight.

He is a on a one-man crime spree! These cats are in the ZONE - maaane! I can feel the heat all the way from here. Whew! The Nets got their hands full…these HAWKS are FLYIN’!

Did I see - RIO come in for BIBBY? Woody is coaching better, since Bibby - Do you think Bibby is Coaching - WOODY? Could be. Bibby might be player-coach, is that possible at his young age?

Give Woody Props If he is allowing Bibby to make substitutions. Maybe Bibby is giving Woody the game plans at the walk-through. Do you notice the bench being better utilized the past three games.

No one should bring the Rock up the court - except Bibby, these Kids are runnung the old guys out of the GYM.

Must have been a great TRAIN ride from Washington to New Jersey - that did the trick! (Most of the Players never seen SNAKES on a TRAIN) ;0

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves though — we all know the kind of effect Mike “Debbie Downer” Woodson’s halftime locker room speeches usually have. Let’s see if they have anything left to play this 3rd quarter.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Another thing I must mention: it’s not showing up in the stats, but lately Marvin’s gotten a lot better at defense and rebounding. Not that he’s good or anything, but he’s gone from abysmal to just mediocre. That itself is a huge improvement. Keep up the good work, Marvin.

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Hey JAMI$$ON

Great Post up! Dead on Correct - maane! Preach that truth Brother.

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

why cant joe hit that floater like old times

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Fellas

Well after tonight it should be apparent folks - I think NAJEH is smokin’ that GOUDA CHEESE!

He basically - confessed to it! LOL Hey Naj - Get your weed on LOL

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

These refs are killing us

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

**What does JJ have to do - to get a foul drawn? It’s a conspiracy. When he’s aggressive he racks up Offensive fouls - But he never draws a Defensive foul? What’s up with this pattern.

I thought DONOGHUE already plead guilty and is doing time - did they let him back in the LEAGUE? Call STERN.

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Chikara

You predicted this! ROY on a ROLL! The X-Factor!

By mrprozach

March 19, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

The Hawks can turn a 13 point lead into a deficit faster than any other team that I have ever seen!

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Hawks getting tired now - time to make substitutions. Get RIO in there. What’s wrong with SALIM? (always hurt?)

By new jersey faithful

March 19, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

I dont think the refs showed up in the beginning of either half. Watching NBA games are so painful when it comes to the refs. Now lets play some freaking DEFENSE!!!

By Shamus Thacker

March 19, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

What’s the magic number?

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Didn’t the NBA create a rule that said locker rooms at halftime are open to the media?

Sekou, if you could, I’d really like if you could sit in on one of Woodson’s locker room speeches and see why exactly the Hawks are always so flat in the 3rd quarter. What exactly does he talk about? The Iraq Body Count? The Rwandan Genocide? Amadou Diallo? I mean it must be something pretty terrible, for the Hawks to fall off this dramatically every game in the 3rd.

By new jersey faithful

March 19, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

JOSH SMITH IS KILLING THIS GAME FOR THE HAWKS! TAKE THE BALL OUT OF HIS HANDS ON OFFENSE!!

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Right now id rather have marvin in the game than smoove.. and can we put joe back in now, im tired of seeing him on the bench the whole 3rd

By Chikara

March 19, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

You’re right drmaryb unfortunately Josh Smith (as usual) makes dumb decisions with the ball and the Nets are back on a roll. They need to man up and stop getting killed in the 3rd quarter each game.

I said earlier they can’t afford to let both Jefferson and Carter go off, and they both have 20 points.

This doesn’t look good if they can’t get any offense going.

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

It’s official - 3D-Scott has named Bibby - The General nice monicker!

The Hawks look tired - If we RUN RUN RUN then we gotta’ substitute players!

By champ

March 19, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

94 points given up through 3 quarters to the Nets… unbelievable(unless you’ve watched the Hawks all year).

By Matt

March 19, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

I think JJ is hurt, folks…

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

Why does chill never pass it up on a fast break to an open man, everyone passes to him so why not pass it back omg…

By DarkRyder

March 19, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

Hawks are scared of Carter and are now down by 7! This one should be just about over….proof positive that Atlanta fades when someone punches them in the mouth!

By new jersey faithful

March 19, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

This game is far from over, but the Hawks have to start playing some ball again!! WTF happened???

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Can we please double carter

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

New Jersey is currently 10/16 on 3’s.

I’m too lazy to look up the stats, but in the last month this is at least the 5th or 6th game where the opponent has shot over 50% from 3 against the Hawks.

This has to stop.

By jami$$ion

March 19, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

thanx drmary.i’m a born & raised atlien.GRADY BABY.and i get tired of illogical,hateful,proposterious comments i’ve heard.lotteryteams aren’t post season championship teams.and if u still in lottery mode. u r rebuilding.waiting on development. in my opinion we have enough young studs for years to come.did BK get every1 we liked? No.but did he put together a good arsenal of talent?Yes.I say pay these guys,get some vets,upgrade the coaching,& let’s win!F×CK DA HATAS GO HAWKS!!!

By Matt

March 19, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

Ah, it was foul trouble. Well, thank god he’s not hurt. But the traditional wisdom is that you bench a guy if he has 3 in the 2nd or 4 in the 3rd, not 3 in the 3rd.

Woody logic for ya…

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Put the starters back in please

By new jersey faithful

March 19, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Changed my mind…GAME OVER!!!

By Astro Joe

March 19, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

I hate to say this, but Woody was right when he talked about fool’s gold a few weeks ago. This team can’t allow 60 points in a half and expect to win. 107 points with half a quarter left to play? Can’t win if you don’t defend.

By Newark's Finest

March 19, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

It’s over. Good game hawks NOT now go back to the basement where you belong.

Thanks Josh Smith for ignorant decisions

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Chikara

I’m feelin’ woozy…the roller coaster is giving me the BENDS!

Is Woody substituting players? Josh is trying to win the game all by himself. That’s what young players do!

That’s why Lenny never played youngsters - He doesn’t trust them.

You can’t run 48 mins straight without rotating players.

Devin Harris must have faked his injury and the Hawks “Let Them OFF the HOOK!”

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Aaah a three the dagger

By randy

March 19, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

Woody’s substituting has killed us in the second half. I swear we just cannot win with this moron on the sidelines!

FIRE WOODY!!

By Newark's Finest

March 19, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

No defense. Playing the Hawks is nice practice for real games.

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

al’s keeping our hopes alive

By Daniel

March 19, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Are we really doing this again? Laying down in the second half after owning a team in the first half? IN THE MOST IMPORTANT GAME AT THIS POINT OF THE SEASON? It hurts to listen to this game. Actually gives me stomach pains…..

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

That was a disgraceful performance in the 2nd half. We threw that game. We gave it away, playing like that. Holy crap, I don’t know who the hell we think we are, playing like that. Five turnovers. Four of them taken the other way for fast break buckets. That must be an NBA record!

What’s that?

PLAYOFFS?!?!?

PLAYOFFS!??!?!?!?!

YOU KIDDIN’ ME?!???!?!

PLAYOFFS?!???!?!?!?!

I just hope we fire Woody and Billy.

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

jefferson is blowing by marvin

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

11 threes? Can we not play perimeter D?

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

jefferson is blowing by marvin and josh an airball

By randy

March 19, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Yes, why sit your all star all quarter cuz he has 3 fouls in the 3rd?? And he subs Bibby with 10 seconds left in the 3rd, which means Bibby misses half of the 4th quarter. BTW, our lineup with Zaza, Horford, JSmith, Childress and Bibby makes no sense, Nets are way to fast for that big lineup. Jesus Christ Woody, how the hell did you get a head coaching job??

By champ

March 19, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

The delusion of making the playoffs will probably end soon. After watching this game tonight and seeing yet another double digit lead blown, I started looking closer at the stats. The Hawks have won 25% (7)of there games against the 3 worst teams in the league Miami, NY, and Minn. That means they are 21-39 against the other 27! Unbelievable…

By Newark's Finest

March 19, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Vince drove it straight to the rack on Josh Smith, with ease. So much for your defensive player of the year hopeful.

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

sigh, i have no comments…

By Daniel

March 19, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Scrap the Billy/Woody tandem now. Hire a GM who can start doing some good and sort out the ownership mess. This team is OVER.

By Newark's Finest

March 19, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

BIG SHOT BIBBY!!!!!!!!!

my bad…

BACK RIM BIBBY!!!!!!!!

go nets!!!!

By drmaryb

March 19, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Najeh
Must have been smokin’ the TRUTH! Re: the Locker Room Speech and 3rd quarter let-down. This game was lost in the 3rd quarter!

Man - How are we going to beat BOSTON? We need the 7-Spot to get out of the 1st round.

We started shooting threes way too early!

By terrell barron

March 19, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

I’ll be damned!

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Champ, that’s probably true for most teams in the East, that a lot of their wins have come against terrible teams. Why? Because the East is full of terrible teams. 8 of New Jersey’s 29 wins (that’s over 25%) are against Charlotte, Milwaukee, Miami, and Minnesota. I would include the Knicks except they are 0-3 against the Knicks.

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Nice job by woody to increasing the other teams scores

By Mike Mike

March 19, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

great to see joe johnson come back to life ….IN THE FINAL 30 SECONDS of a double digit game..

By randy

March 19, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

FIRE WOODSON NOW!!!! when we win it is in spite of him, when we lose its because of him…

By Joshua

March 19, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Didn’t I say Smith and Childress needed to step up and Chill seems like he did , But Smoove had a bad night and the Hawks have lost a key game :<

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

The turning point of the game came when woody decided to sit joe out for the whole 3rd quarter what a dumb move, if you go back and look at the game flow i bet 100 bucks that thats when the game changed…classic woody

By Melvin

March 19, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

This team has no Heart… This team needs a true leader. JJ is a good player but we need a vocal leader on the court….

By Mike Mike

March 19, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

The Hawks can’t defend the three, and also can’t defend the paint with all the easy layups and dunks.

They dont deserve to make the playoffs.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Newark’s Finest, if you’re trying to offend us Hawks fans or something, it’s not gonna work. We already know our team sucks.

By Clyde

March 19, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

The real Clyde always puts his trade mark at the end of his posts. Get your own name to post under.

Ok Horford won the battle tonight. I never said he was a better all around player. I just said Sean was a better defensive player. THE END

But something needs to be done about our defense. Playoff teams don’t let people drive down the lane like the Nets did tonight.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Nice D

March 19, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Wow, the hawks really played some good D tonight.Glad they understand what it takes to make the show.lol

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

The reason we lost is because their starters outplayed our starters, vince outplayed joe, jefferson outplayed smith and harris outplayed bibby

By new jersey faithful

March 19, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

What a dissapointing lose!! The Hawks had off last night and the Nets played, yet it looked like the other way around by the end of the game. And you could barely use the excuse that it was a road game, cause there was nobody in Jersey, as usual. This is the kind of game JJ needs to step up and produce, but once again he folded when they really needed him. Marvin disapeared in the 4th, that hurt. Josh Smith just makes horrible choices on offense way too often. He misses badly about twice a game, badly like a ten year old kid just throwing the ball at the rim, its pathetic!!!!!

By Pepsi

March 19, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

disgraceful… thats about sums it up.

By kwooden1

March 19, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Tough game for the guys, Vince is a bad matchup for the Hawks (the Hawks have no physical perimeter defenders). Small, quick guards are a problem for the Hawks also, so I’m not surprised that Harris had a great game. The Hawks are going to keep questioning themselves, but they are still in the hunt. Hopefully they can really start playing some better on the ball defensive.

GO HAWKS!!

By Sautee

March 19, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Hey Clyde,

Sean Williams 18 min 5 pts 4 reb 0 asst 0 blocks 1 missed dunk

Al ROY Horford 38 min 20 pts 15 reb 6 asst 0 blocks

Yes Horford played twice the minutes, but he had much more than twice the production.

I DO concede your point that the Hawks still need a big presence in the paint. I’m just not sure that Sean Williams would be the right choice over Al. And I’m not basing that on tonight’s game, which obviously was skewed in Al’s favor.And YES I saw Al give up some dunks tonight, but so did Williams.

By Mac-Town

March 19, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Wizards,76ers, and Raptors won tonight. My VERY DELUSIONAL AND OPTIMISTIC hopes for the hawks to move up and obtain one of their spots is down the drain.

I find it AMAZING how a PROFESSIONAL team cant keep anybody in front of them.

We probably have the worst defense in the league as of right now.

By Clyde

March 19, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Some of yall are playing both sides of the fence. During the win streak some were saying GO HAWKS now yall saying FIRE BILLY AND WOODY. Choose which path yall want to take.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By devin

March 19, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

THE END,THE END,THE END,THE END, THE END,THE END,THE END,THE END, THE END,THE END,THE END,THE END, WOOOOOOODDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YOU SUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK!

By DFence?

March 19, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

I haven’t seen inside penetration like that since that Jenna Haze porno I watched a few months back. Hawks were violated. OUCH!

I think I know the name of our new WNBA team…lets call them the Atlanta Hawks!!

By Sautee

March 19, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Hey Clyde,

I wrote that last post BEFORE I saw your mea culpa.

I wasn’t piling on, I’m just a VERY slow typist, and you beat me to the punch.

And I’m still with you on firing you know who. Both you know whos.

By Don!

March 19, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Dear Atlanta Spirit,

Can we fire Woody now?

Sincerely,

Don!

By new jersey faithful

March 19, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

I think the turning point was three possesions in a row when Josh Smith TRIED to make something happen and failed miserably! Then the Nets came back and took the lead for good! Very bad game for JS, VERY BAD!!

By Big Red

March 19, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

I told yall that damn mike bibby is washed up. We should have traded shelden, a.j. and lorenzen for a big man. I know T-Lue would be more consistant than buddy. Maybe next year.

By DecDawg

March 19, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Matt/hawksfan…Unfortunately, I wasn’t around to take the verbal abuse when JJ played good defense on Crawford against the Knicks (worst team in the league). But I come back in town to see “shut ‘em down” JJ against Carter/Jefferson. Especially since JJ “always” guards the other team’s #1 option.

And what do I see…JJ shut down Carter..no, no Carter went for 39. So I guess JJ shut down Jefferson…no, no RJ went for 33. Man, those two guys torched JJ. I understand all the points weren’t scored against JJ because IT IS about team defense but he didn’t do his part tonight in a big game. And as a Hawks fan I’m disappointed because I want to be wrong about JJ’s defense…and the Hawks defense. Until we play solid team defense, we don’t deserve to make the playoffs.

By GTFan

March 19, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Change the title of this thread to Game Off! Hawks are terrible.

I think the ownership deserves 2 losing teams.

By Mac-Town

March 19, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

LOL!!!!@DFence?

By Mac-Town

March 19, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

as obvious as it was that the hawks needed a defensive spark all night, not once did Mario West get some PT to try and maybe rub off his defensive intensity on the other guys?

By preston

March 19, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

same ole’ story…….the hawks did not adjust in the second half…..i don’t think that double teamming Vince tonight would have helped with the way Jefferson and Harris were playing, but did we even try playing zone tonight? How many times did little Devin Harris drive down the lane for easy points? How many easy, uncontested dunks did we see tonight? The first half was a bitter and sweet mix………excellent offensive play, but horrible defensively………….and while the hawks shooting cooled off in the second half, the nets just kept a steady pace, and they eventually rolled right past the hawks. Those wins against the clippers, knicks, and the wizards were nice, but Woody has to be the most schizophrenic coach in the league……one week he plays his bench guys…..Salim….Solo…West, and gets good contributions from them, and the next week he is playing JJ to death…..Marvin starts playing well, but his strategy is to get minutes for Jsmoove and jchills…..when Marvin is plays like crap, he keeps him in there……this is insanity I tell you.

By **Mike** takes in **WOOD**, son.

March 19, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Hey when they say Mike Woodson is a Defensive Minded coach I guess they are referring to him being defensive about his sexuality, because it sure cant be about the game of basketball.

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

DecDawg is this what you do your whole life, dogging on people when they play bad but dont praise them when they played good, TODAY HAWKSVILLE EXPERIENCED VINTAGE CARTER nobody on our whole team could stop him, he was on fire normally he isnt but today he was. Dude are you the brother of clyde cuz your doing the same thing that he does

By **Mike** takes in **WOOD**, son.

March 19, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

If each NBA team was a female, then the hawks would be WH0RE of the league. How many times can u get penetrated so deeply? And then when the inside shots stop falling, the hawks get PENETRATED AND KICKED OUT on…for a three.

Thats right penetrate those WH0RES AND KICK EM OUT!!!

By DFence?

March 19, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

Mac-Town,

You obviously missed the last 2.9 seconds of the 2nd quarter than Mario came in the game for his defensive prowess. I believe Vince Carter dunked on him too.

By Geni

March 19, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

Are the Braves on yet? I’m ready to watch a team that’ll have a winning record.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 19, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

“Go Hawks” and “Fire Woody and Billy” are not mutually exclusive. In fact, one has to happen for the other to happen.

By jami$$ion

March 19, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

1st OFF.THESE ARE THE GAMES THAT SHOW OUR LACK OF FOCUS,DETERMINATION,DESIRE,& MOST OF ALL COACHING!ALL THE MORE REASON THAT WOODY SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED, LAST YEAR LET ALONE THIS YEAR,WHEN BK TRIED TO RECTIFY HIS MISTAKE.RANDY I AGREE WE WIN IN SPITE OF WOODY & LOSE WHEN WE CAN’T OVERCOME HIS COACHING!F’UP #2DUCK & JJ GOT MURKED!NOTE TO WOODY.WHEN WE PLAY TEAMS WITH TWO KILLERS(RAY&PAUL,CARON GA,VC RJ)START RIO!WHEN SOMEONE GETS HOT PUT RIO ON’EM.WHEN PLAYING ATHLETIC TEAMS PLAY SOLO NOT Z.U MAY KEEP YO JO

By NJ Hawk Fan

March 19, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Why did Woodson sit JJ down when he picked up his 3rd foul in the 3RD QUARTER??

A move like that pretty much seals the deal as far as I’m concerned. The Nets were putting on a great run with JJ riding pine because of that ridiculous interpretation of “foul trouble.”

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

For me the main reason we lost is because of substitution but other than that our internal defense is real weak, i mean layup after layup after layup and dunks finishing out each quarter by carter or richardson.

By Murphy

March 19, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this

Why is it when we win you dont see guys like DFence, Geni, and Big Red? But as soon as we lose one game they all show up with their negative comments. KEEP THAT ISH TO YOURSELF!!!!

The hawks did not play up to their potential tonight but anyone can beat u on any given night in this league. We have to man up and get ready for Orlando. We can bounce back this is a hiccup, and if we can keep playin hard like the 3 games before and towards the end of tonight things will be fine. Dont everyone go into panic mode quite yet.

JUST RELAX PEOPLE ITS NOT OVER YET!!!!!

By Joe Bling

March 19, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks DFence. I was going to point out that Mario got in for the last 2.9 seconds of the half, only to watch Carter blow by him for a slam.

One of the all-time worst defensive performances I’ve ever seen - from the whole team. On top of that:

Bibby couldn’t throw it in the ocean. Woodson again mismanaged the playing time. Josh Smith single-handedly destroyed any chance we had of getting back in the game. The man is one of the few I’ve ever seen who can instantaneously turn a defensive turnover fast break for the Hawks into a fast-break slam dunk for the opponent. How many times do I have to watch Josh get his hands on the ball and immediately start screaming “NOOOOOO!!!!!!”

We missed a real opportunity tonight. Had ‘em down, but couldn’t put the knife in.

By terrell barron

March 19, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Were still tied for the 8th spot. Calm down! We’ve won 3 out of the last 4 games. When was the last time we did that? Weak schedule or not!

By Matt

March 19, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Najeh,

Damned right.

Clyde,

You’re a good man, Charlie Brown. The truth shall set you free! ;-)

DecDawg,

I admit, JJ got torched on D tonight. It happens to the best of them. And while I maintain that JJ is a good perimeter defender, he wasn’t tonight.

But hawksfanfordawin has you pegged right - it takes a certain kind of man to disappear when they’re getting proved wrong, and then parachute back in when something happens that makes them look right. Strange, then, how you disappeared when JJ shut down Crawford but came back when Vince scored 39. At least Clyde has the testicular fortitude to stay when the going gets rough for him (i.e. when Al Horford and/or the Hawks do well).

You jumped on the exception as if it was the rule. Too bad one game backing up your argument doesn’t make it valid.

In any case, NJ Hawks Fan hit the nail on the head - the Hawks were up by 6 when JJ picked up his to the bench in the 3rd, and were down 7 at the beginning of the 4th when Woodson woke up and decided to put him back in. That’s why JJ was the only Hawk with a positive +/- stat for tonight. Like it or not, he’s by far the biggest reason this team is even smelling a chance at the postseason.

I still don’t get why Woodson benched him for THAT long while the Hawks were falling apart. He panicked when JJ picked up his 3rd foul and benched him for almost 9 minutes. The result was predictable. As was the result of Smoove lobbing up 3s to try and stop the bleeding.

Still, 2 of 3 on the road is a step up for the Hawks. We don’t have any road games left against teams with winning records. We might just sneak in the back door - and I don’t care if we get swept as long as I get to see my Hawks in the playoffs (and Phoenix without a lottery pick!).

By Chikara

March 19, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Unlike the majority of you I’m not giving up just because they lost one tonight. I said it all along that if they didn’t stop Carter and Jefferson that it would be a short time.

Looks like Vinsanity channeled the spirit of MJ tonight and couldn’t be denied. Atlanta has to answer since they are not as stout defensively.

I wonder where woodsonsucks is now with his praise of Josh Smith? Four years in the league and you still can’t bring a basketball down the court without almost turning it over each time? Perhaps he isn’t worth the trouble if he’s going to keep screwing up on his handles.

By hawksfanfordawin

March 19, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

The one thing that you need in order to be an atlanta hawks fan is a short memory because just when you think that they are going to go and win a huge game the lose but when you think they are going to lose they win, i hope that woodson has learned a lesson on when to take timeouts during runs and when to keep your best player in the game…I thought that if we kept jj in during that run, we would still be up heading into the fourth..

By cp

March 20, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

I thought I was watching an episode of The First 48 because Duck and JJ were getting murdered on defense. I don’t think I have ever seen a team whose perimeter defense is this horrible. At one point I think Nachbar had so much time to shoot a 3 that he ordered a hot dog and a soda and still had time to check the winning lotto numbers. He missed the shot but it shows that our defense is terrible. Where was that defensive effort I saw when we played the Rockets. We lost that game but guys were out there competing hard. Mike Woodson went back to Mike Knapp tonight. The Nets made adjustments while Mike Knapp folded his arms and gave that sour look. This was a very important game then add in the fact that the Nets hold the tiebraker over us so we have to hope that at the end of the season we are not tied. We have to take care of business. SS remind these guys they are fighting for their playoff lives.

By DecDawg

March 20, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this

Matt/hawksfan,

I’m sorry I missed the blog the night of the Knicks game. Good enough ladies? Some of us actually have a life. The Knicks are hardly a beast and routinely get beat down in this league…you can’t seriously consider this an accomplishment.

Both of you have proven that you have a hard time dealing with reality. The Hawks are a terrible defensive team, JJ included. He’s not alone but he’s far from a leader on the defensive end of the court.

By cp

March 20, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this

You also gotta love how Horford was dominating in the paint on the offensive end in the first half and yet we rarely gave him the ball in the second half.

By DecDawg

March 20, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this

The Hawks are a team without a defensive or offensive philosophy. We basically run ALL two of our offensive plays for JJ and have one defensive set. We never even try to take advantage of mismatches or attack weaknesses of our opponents. There is not one player on this team that looks comfortable in this system on both ends of the floor. And since we can fire all the players, you know who has to go…

By Matt

March 20, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

Damn…broke my own rule. I said I was done with that fool. Well, I’ll just sign off by saying that anyone who wants to read DecDawg’s brilliant ramblings that highlight his masterful (and so simple!) analysis of why JJ is a terrible defender because he doesn’t get more blocks/steals and his endearing tendency to ignore facts that disprove his arguments, you can read two threads back. I apologize profusely for giving him an opening to waste your time, and apologize further if he takes the opportunity to do so again.

By DecDawg

March 20, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this

cp,

I have to agree with you on the lack of perimeter defense. And what you say about Horford not getting the ball is true. We rarely establish the post area…even if someone is hot or has a mismatch.

By SalimFan

March 20, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this

Bibby Got torched from the three point line on multiple occasions by Devin Harris. Being lazy and trying to go under screens. At one point josh yelled out “play up on him mike!” when he was guarding Devin too far from the arc. It’s defensive lapses like that that we can’t afford to have. Sure he scores a lot but AJ and LUE played better D. He also did not shoot very well. BUT of course those are intangables and his stat line shows he had a good game but we could all see he didn’t. I would rather give up a layup that a three point basket. Just PLAY UP and send them into the paint to get dealt with by AL and josh. It’s not that hard. He really diappointed me tonight.

On a more positive note shooters live and die by the shot. Acie played well and is a solid peremiter defender but if he was left in too long he would have become stagnant. He doesn’t like taking shots for some reason. So I like Bibbys asertiveness on the offensive end. That’s about the only positive I can pull from his performance tonight.

By Kobe Bryant

March 20, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

I haven’t seen THAT much penetration since I raped that white girl in the butt!

By BA

March 20, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

Hey Clyde, Sean Williams looked great tonight! I was VERY impressed. Since we’re doing trademarks, I want to unveil mine:

         CLYDE'S A MOUTHBREATHER!

By ray

March 20, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this

Matt,

It goes against the nature of a reasonable man to not try and reason with one who is being unreasonable. However, pigs will never sing, cows will never fly, and idiots will always beat you with experience. So no apology needed, LOL!

Guys-n-Gals, We aren’t privy to the exact stipulations or conditions that will determine Billy or Woody’s continued employment (or discontinued employment). It would be hard to clean house if the team makes the playoffs, as Sekou and others have suggested. But hard does not mean impossible. Other organizations have fired people in one or both positions despite making the playoffs. It depends on the ASG’s agenda and intent. And whether or not they can actually acquire replacements (decent ones at that). However, I have little reason to doubt that AT LEAST one will be gone if we don’t make the playoffs. And with last night’s loss, I DO have more reason to doubt that we can get the job done when it’s critical. Not saying we can’t, just saying…

drmaryb, I see Woody’s comments regarding Bibby differently than you do. It would make you think that he really supports his players when he said that if Bibby didn’t like the plays or gameplans, he could say so and they would be changed. But the fact is, he’s NEVER said anything like that the whole time he’s been here, not even about his star player, Joe Johnson.

Do you know what that tells me? It tells me two things: 1)He knows he’s in a bad spot (lame duck coach), and that Bibby was brought here to provide true court leadership for the team (well, we won’t get into whether or not he was REALLY brought here for that) and 2)He has never considered any of the other Hawks players as a guys that deserve to have that kind of influence. In other words, he never saw any of them (even JJ) as true leaders. And for once, I say he’s right. Love JJ, but he’s not shown us that he’s the type of leader we’ve been needing. He is, however-a great player, good damn scorer, good defender.

By ray

March 20, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this

Well, pigs may not be able to sing, but apparently they can blog…

The dyslexic A$$ Bandit strikes again….

By BA

March 20, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this

“we’ve been needing”?! Is that english? Is that like “used-too-could”? Let’s try to up the ante here, people.

By Joe

March 20, 2008 2:33 AM | Link to this

We have Woody and Billy….smile ATL we have a shot at the NBA lottery!!!!

By vava74

March 20, 2008 4:59 AM | Link to this

I mentioned this on the past:

Josh Smith is a very talent athlete and a spectacular shot blocker, but he neither a SF nor a PF. He doesn’t show any actual D as a PF should and does not protect the rim on a steady basis.

He plays mostly like a SF with a shaky outside shot gambling on defence and handling the ball way too much.

That is incompatible with having him at the same time with Marvin who also does not play any D (neither inside nor outside).

Then it is simply too much for Al Horford to hold, hence the easy baskets coming on penetrations and layups and the overreactions from the perimeter defenders who unsuccessfuly try to protect the inside - they simply can’t - nor the outside, hence the number of easy 3s we are giving away.

By ray

March 20, 2008 7:28 AM | Link to this

BA, would “we have been needing” help you understand the concept of contractions better? Perhaps it is the context or tenses that confuse you. Do you truly wish to up the “ante” as it were, from a grammatical or intelligence standpoint? It matters not, because the simple solution is for you to go elsewhere. That would improve this blog exponentially. But, as usual, the village just cannot get rid of the idiot, no matter how hard it tries….

By smartguy

March 20, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

ray said, a village just cannot get rid of the idiot, no matter how hard it tries. Tell me about it. Damn Woody couldn’t get fired if he held a dog fight at center court prior to a game. And no, he’s not a rookie.

Great posts from DFence, and of course Najeh (x2). “Go Hawks” and “Fire Woody and Billy” are not mutually exclusive. In fact, one has to happen for the other to happen. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

FIRE WOODY BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!!

By doc

March 20, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

maybe the blog needs a good dose of penicillin, huh ray?

By JohnGTFan

March 20, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Atlanta is still right there…I don’t see the need to panic. Most of us deep down knew ATL was going to lose this game. They’re the ONLY team that could make Vince look like the Vince of old. But this is a road game, for one of the worst road teams in the league. Our schedule is favorable compared to NJ’s, so don’t lose hope quite yet. If ATL goes on a 2 or 3 game losing streak, then go ahead and get ready for the Braves season. But until that happens, there’s still a shot. And to be honest…alot of people say what’s the point of ATL making the playoffs as an 8th seed to get swept by Boston. First, it would be GREAT for the fans to watch playoff basketball in ATL. Second, it would be so much for the confidence of these kids to finally play in the playoffs. And last, I don’t think Boston would win 4 straight against ATL. I think ATL would find a way to take it to 6 games.

By doc

March 20, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

hey johngt, i know soo many decisions in life … what do i want? crack pipe … kool aide … crack pipe … kool aide. which one got you untracked into the nethersphere for your last few comments? kidding, a real dose of pollyanna is good for us all but four of six … really?.

hope you are right but this team refuses to stand up to the situation and play with the intensity needed. the drive to the basket by vince at the end of the second period was a terrible omen for what was to come. how can that happen when you lead by twelve and work so hard to get there? just plain awful.

sure did like the gravy points jj took as he drove to the basket at the end of the game for lay ups. aint it a shame he cant make it look that easy when the game hinges on it instead of keeping it to a two possession game with less than a minute to play.

By STRETCH

March 20, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

I find it hard to believe that people are still believing that this team is good enough to make the playoffs. GET REAL! Right now it would take the top 6 in the EAST and let them play.

Its all about the organization and structure of the franchise and right now, it looks bad. The main problem…COACHING….Part of being a coach is also knowing what your guys CAN and CANNOT do!

As a coach you need to pull Josh Smith aside and tell him that he is NOT a PG. How many turnovers does this guy have????

Tell guys to stop coming down the court and jacking 18 foot BRICKS!

USE THAT ENERGY OFF THE BENCH!!! Its no secret and any NBA team that has won will tell you that you have to have a bench.

Even Charles Barkley said earlier this season, that he would be dissappointed if this team didnt make it to the playoffs. And after watching them play, this team is too talented now with the addition of Mike Bibby to be 11 games under 500!

By pablo bosque

March 20, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

STRETCH you kind of made my comment for me, but…

if i wasn’t convinced the main problem with the hawks was coaching i am now after watching all of last night’s game.

going big with pachulia and horford was a good idea, to clog up the lane and stop all those easy dunks…but it came a quarter too late and then only because marvin got too many fouls and had to sit. oh, and of course, woody was just as slow to recognize when NJ had adapted as he was going big in the first place. by the end of the third quarter they were basically playing small ball against us and extending the lead, while pachulia was still plodding around out there. that’s the time to put JS back in, not five minutes later when its too late. sheesh.

oh, and joe johnson guarding both vince carter and rjeff alternately? whose idiot idea was that? how about, instead of JJ sitting for ten minutes in the third quarter after his third foul and watching the lead evaporate, how about f#@$ing putting someone else on carter for a while. put in mario for chrissake. JJ, at that point, was worth more as a scorer. when he sat down, the offense tanked, and when he came back in he was cold and shooting bricks. the guy is used to playing 40+ minutes a game. oh and resting him for that long on only three fouls…in the 3rd quarter…of maybe the most important game of the season so far? doesn’t seem right somehow…

and JS. he should be benched every time he bricks an off balance three point shot. with two or three minutes left he decided to take over the offense, and kept driving the ball directly to the hole and getting foul calls each time. can someone please tell this kid to do that all the time? he should be shooting one jump shot out of ten attempts. no one can stop him, pace him, or jump with him when he makes up his mind to go to the hole.

not to mention that gross underuse of our bench. solomon, salim, jrich, mario…there’s got to be a way to get these guys some run, even in a big game like this. (besides mario’s 2.5 seconds to end the first half, which of course resulted in yet another VC dunk at the buzzer.) jeez.

billy knight may have made some bonehead draft picks, but to his credit the team he’s assembled really should be able to play .500 ball in the east. so rather than firing the GM, trading his team, and waiting another five years, how about we just fire woody and get a coach who actually knows how to make in-game decisions, other than which dumbass puzzled expression to wear on his face when a halftime lead evaporates and he has no f@#$ing clue why.

oh yeah, horford was a beast as usual. he really deserves rookie of the year for what he’s done with that starting spot.

peace a-town.

By Dan Kolb

March 20, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry about me, Ray. Just focus on your sentence structure. Ebonics don’t count as english. This is not Def Jam, this is a blog. If you’re going to post something, you should proofread it and make sure it doesn’t sound like something Buckwheat would say. “HI, I’m Ray, AMEMEBER ME?”

By JohnGTFan

March 20, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

doc

that was my first comment…someone else was using a name very similar to mine.

but yeah, I hear ya. What is it with the 3rd quarter…that was just horrible. I think we all new it was over before the 4th even began.

By honest_abe

March 20, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

you actually fooled some folk in here poophead.

you even had me thinking you might have some common sense. at least up until i saw your idiotic ramblings on schultz’s column. dude give it a rest. that whole piece had nothing to do with a certain #7. your hero’s behind bars. accept it, get over it and move on.

By The Flash

March 20, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

astroman frozen shoulder, a bummer for sure. Here’s my two cents. We want to start with the hips. Decent chance that your hips probrably don’t articulate well towards the side away from your shoulder (so, if it is your right should that is frozen, your hips don’t turn too well to the right).

We also need to be clear what in the shoulder might be frozen. Probably, we are talking about your shoulder blade, and its inability to articulate easily, if at all, along your ribs.

How to free up your shoulder blade and reeducate yourself in its use is the task. We’ll probably have to help you find some greater flexibility in your ribs and sternum as well.

So, we start with the hips and restrictions there, which probably are related to the lack of swing in your right shoulder, or slide in your shoulder blade, which might well be “frozen” in place by facie tissue and/or cramped muscles that prevent it from moving, both of which can be improved if we get your ribs moving as they should. I could go on but then again I haven’t seen you.

Try a Feldenkrais practitioner. You can do a google search. I have taken the liberty and found one in Atlanta who happens also to be a physical therapist, which would mean that your visits would be reimburseable.

Yeap, I have been working my way out of one of those for the past two months. Making some real progress to.

Here is the name of the practitioner, who was certified in 1996. If she has been using the method in her work, that would bode well since, as with anything else, learning begins once you are licensed.

*Deborah Herberger, PT (1996) Atlanta, GA 30315 678.643.8839 Voice Business 404.296.3418 Voice Home debfelder at bellsouth.net

chronic pain, postural abnormalities, neurological disorders.*

By doc

March 20, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

thanks flash i knew you would come through. it all has to be in balance doesnt it and one cannot ignore the whole.

By The Flash

March 20, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

crrection for astroman: the hips would in all likely turn less freely to the left, if it is the right shoulder that is frozen. Could be the other way round, especially if your spin is twisted like mine, but probably, if there is a restriction in the ability of your hips to turn left, then the follow through on throwing or reaching type movements across your body will strain your shoulder.

Here’s a means of measuring it. Lie on the floor, with both feet on the floor hip width a part. Your knees will be facing the ceiling. Now, let your knees move toward the left, but only what is easy. When you feel pulling in either of your legs start to happen, stop. You have gone far enough. We are not concerned here with accomplishing anything except discovering how far is easy.

Do this several times, each time trying to relax more and find what the easy range is. Then do it to the other side.

See which side is freer.

BTW, when your knees move to one side, the knee on the opposite side will fall towards your middle and further away from your body; the knee on the side in the direction you are moving will move more directly sideways.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 20, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

The quote I cited had everything to do with a certain #7. If you take the time to read the post you will see why. Of course, given your track record, I’m not expecting much from you in the way of reading comprehension.

Keep the Falcons sh-t on the Falcons blog.

By terrell barron

March 20, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

Everyone calls the Eastern Conference the JV League of the NBA, yet, it will be either Boston or Detroit holding that Championship trophy. Mark my words! The West may have better teams, but the East has the 2 best teams. You can argue Detroit not being the 2nd best team in the league, but the Celtics are the best in the League right now. BAR NONE.

By Astro Joe

March 20, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Flash, good looking out. I’ll be on the phone in the morning. Ray, I think my shoulder started hurting while I was patting myself on the back during the recent discoveries regarding the ASG. Hmm, I wonder if that led to my considerable discomfort?

By Ken Strickland

March 20, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Now you know why I won’t give Woodson a reprieve. He is not only stubborn, but he coaches scared. New Jersey used it’s bench extensively and VCarter was fresh in the 4th qt, and it showed. JJ was exhausted by the 4th qtr and it also showed.

Any HC that’s afraid to allow players a chance to fail won’t likely allow those players a chance to succeed. Chills, and now maybe Acie, are the only bench players that try to make plays rather than trying not to make a mistake.

By ray

March 20, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, it happens to us all. Just remember to switch arms so that you don’t end up with one hugely muscled one, and one that looks like it’s withered. I have to agree with your remedy though: Philly Cheesteak and Fries it is!

Dan Kolb, I don’t know who you are (literally). Unless of course, you’re BA with a name change. Ebonics would imply the use of words that are either incorrectly spelled, or fabrications altogether, although that is not a complete definition. If I do such a thing, I do it on purpose for the sake of entertainment or adding color to a fabricated character of some sort. You assume much. Is this an english-only blog? Are grammatical errors or omissions allowed? If not, then YOU had better not make a single mistake of any kind or you will prove yourself to be a hypocrite beyond reasonable doubt.

In the meantime, perhaps you would like to deliver your discertation on grammar and what not, along with your understanding of the existence and roles that jargon, slang, and various dialects play in communication of the common world?

*But I’ll bet you can’t right now because you’d be late for your Klan rally, and the “How to Be a Hypocritical Bigot” classes that will be offered afterwards. Heh….

By drmaryb

March 20, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

The glaring hole in JJ’s game?

This man could average 10 additional points per game if he figured out how to draw a foul. Maybe he should: Draw & Kick like my boy Miller-Time back in the day. Or do like Smitty on the base-line - Fake left and roll right to reverse the lay-up. Get a PET-MOVE maane!

The other problem is this team does not talk on defense! No help defense - Do they think J-SMOOVE can block everything?

The problem with *J-SMOOVE’s Game?

He clearly has no defined role on this team. He does a little bit of everything but not everything well.

He needs to catch and shoot. Stay off that 3-point line (work in the off-season to improve the range).

JS does have a nice stroke and a sweet high arch, his timing is just a little off with that.

No PG play from this guy is ever pretty. i.e. HAND the ball off to the PG - don’t skip pass it, just gently place it in his hands (like a waiter serving iced-sweet-tea ;0)

Other than that? Do your thing - young fella.

HC needs to define these roles and stop asking players to do things they don’t do well. Know your limitations I always say.

By drmaryb

March 20, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Hey One Brain Cell Left

I know living in your Mama’s trailer all these years must be rough. Being home schooled and all, I guess the walls started closing in around third grade. Learning from a pack of wolves , I-know it’s hard but hang in there.

Sunny days are just around the corner!

Now here’s a real lesson. Writing is a form of creative art. Some of the best written Novels use creativity to paint pictures with words.

(e.g Shakespeare is loaded with part words) That’s why ebonics are so embraced by main-stream media and America in general.

How many times have you heard ROBIN LEACH steal the ebonic phrase BLING-BLING! that’s worldwide man.

That’s just one of a million examples of Artistic Creativity and Contributions made by African Americans. You can learn more if you could actually read and think at the same time.

(You are allowed to review all the mind-blowing contributions made by African Americans year ‘round, you don’t have to wait til’ Februrary)

Colorful Words and Expressions are an Art Form and there are no rules when you do that.

Technical writing skills and grammatical errors aren’t worried about on blogs you IDIOT. Many of us who have careers don’t have time to sit around and proof-read everything, there’s not enough hours in the day for that nonsense.

I speak some five languages fluently and the older I get the worst my spelling is - but you get the point! (Oh my bad! You don’t get it - one brain cell just ain’t kickin’ it)

So get over it - Wonder what fake A S S name you will log on with next?

By drmaryb

March 20, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

And one more thing Village People-

“we’ve been needing”

Is a Grammatically correct statement. Perfect subject-verb agreement. Proper tense used.

Grade A+

p/s: For those of you who didn’t learn this at home school.

By drmaryb

March 20, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Hey Clyde

Get ‘Em. There’s only two fools on here who post under other peoples name:

Take your Pick: BA or Altman Either or it doesn’t really matter - they’re both inter-changeable village idiots. They probably live in a Mobile Meth Lab on Wheels!

We all know who Clyde is on here - And we’re not gonna’ let him off the hook! HA HA HA ;o

By drmaryb

March 20, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Hey Kobe aka: BA

No one can ride your back if you AIN’T -Bent Over!

So stand up straight - and watch them back riders slide-off. HA HA HA ;o

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 20, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

As far as I know, there’s nothing incorrect about saying “we’ve been needing”.

By AtlFlavor

March 20, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Well I jacked that 1 up saying the Hawks win by 8. Another wasted chance. Woody never sits Joe and when he finally does its for a HALF?? Za Za was playing well but thats straight FOOLs Gold! But I just got tickets for this Sat. Time for Home Cooking again!! Damn is Philly ever going to lose again. WTF?? Andre Miller is looking pretty good right about now.

By HB Ando

March 21, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

Imagine how ironic it felt, when the term “fool’s gold” was used by not only Woody, but by my old friend, Astro Joe, as well.

By Astro Joe

March 19, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

I hate to say this, but Woody was right when he talked about fool’s gold a few weeks ago.

I am confident that no less than a handful of long-timers will confirm that this is the very term I have used, in reference to this team, since ‘05 (starting with an e-mail to Bruce Levenson, in late ‘05, that I would be more than happy to cut-and-paste, to confirm the point).

It was at that very time, in the aforementioned “late ‘05”, when I cautioned Mr. Levenson against settling for the “fool’s gold” of borderline playoff competitiveness, in an ongoing attempt to generate short-term ticket sales, rather than seeking out the potential for NBA championships.

And now here we are. On a 35-win pace, and ridiculously compelled by the possibility of securing the 8th seed.

It’s not the first time I’ve mentioned the term, but is anyone else here familiar with the concept of cognitive dissonance?

The outcome of this season couldn’t be more inconsequential to the plans of the Spirit. They know they have to buy out Belkin. They know that Billy’s draft choices cannot be repaired. They know that the head coach was both unqualified, and ill-fitting, for the roster Billy has accumulated. They know they have no draft picks this summer, and no respect around the league, as far as free-agents go.

For those who ask the question of who is better qualified to replace either Billy or Woody, I say that, from a practical, and a marketing, perspective, it doesn’t really matter. No one can do much worse. And anyone can be spun as a solution.

This battle for the 8th seed is mock drama. It will have no impact on the events that will unfold this summer.

Change is finally coming. Too little, too late? In the eternal evolution of pro sports, probably not. But for Atlanta Hawks’ fans, this pathetic scenario was both predicted and avoidable. And it will take years to correct.

On a positive note, if we’re going to continue down a path of mediocrity, it’s far more fun to watch them lose high-scoring affairs, like the Golden State, or New Jersey, games, than losing games 80-73……..

One other curious observation: I see that my old friend, Flash, is here. And I also note an absence of richbrave. Both have presented themselves as well-heeled Washingtonians. And they never seem to show at the same time. Do we have a Batman/Bruce Wayne effect in play?

Flash, I will always be your Robin, as long as you be my Belkin……..

By BA

March 21, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this

So if Ray goes out of HIS way to call me an idiot, I’m not supposed to call him out when he writes something ignorant? As far as dmaryb (yeah, THAT’S a real name) do us ALL a favor and stick to the Hawks(about which I must admit, you make some valid points). No one wants to read this chickenhead crap. The gay stuff, the meth lab, please. Get real. It’s tired. Surely someone as intelligent as yourself can do better. And if you think “we’ve been needing” is gramatically correct, well I guess we all know why you had to settle for being a chiropractor. I’ve been appreciating African American art for probably as long as you’ve been selling people fake medical services. But thanks for the advice. And please, if you’re going to insult me, lose the racial crap. Clan rally Ray? Really? Look, if you insult me and call me a pig, don’t be suprised when I call YOU out for blogging something stupid. And if I do call you out, leave the stupid race card in your pocket. It has no place here(or anywhere else, in this day and age).

By HB Ando

March 21, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this

Just for the fun of it, I pulled a search on my Outlook. This cut-and-paste is from an e-mail exchange with the always gracious (and I want to make it clear how much I respect him for consistently, and genuinely, responding to a faceless fan) Bruce Levenson, on 12/20/05:

“If you’ve been checking in on the blog, then you’re probably not too pleased with my ongoing criticisms, especially in light of the teams’ recent quality play. But the wins are fools’ gold in the grand scheme of rebuilding. And Billy’s good decisions are offset by the implications of his questionable ones. I told Sekou before the draft that Paul was the closest thing I’d seen to Isiah Thomas since Isiah himself. I couldn’t feel any better about that projection/comparison. It is not my intent to be an A-hole. You guys have a potential path to adding the needed PG and stockpiling some young post players, but you have to let go of winning the battle that is this season for a shot at potential championships down the road (AKA, the War). And the path to the real gold will go through Miami, Indy and Detroit. You’ll need two more potential all-star big men for that task. Guys like Aldridge, Bargnani or Splitter. Maybe Nene. I’d also be happy if you pulled a 3-way with Indy and Toronto, sending Al, and netting Calderon and the Raptors’ ’07 first rounder. You guys are doing too well to expect you’ll get a realistic shot at Oden in the 07 draft, so Phoenix will likely get that pick. Toronto is as solid a candidate as anyone to pick first in ’07. Add Calderon and Aldridge, and, really, any of the top five talent projected in the ’07 draft (but obviously the next great big man in Oden), and the Hawks will be a force to be reckoned with for the next ten years. Acquiesce to the financial and fan-driven pressures to win a few more games this season, and mediocrity will be the likely future.”

Now I’m the first to admit that the content of this exchange doesn’t rank with Nostradamus, but given that it’s from over 3 years ago, it’s got some pretty compelling names, not so well known at the time (honestly, how many of you knew who Calderon was 3 years ago?).

So, the point is, that it’s played out about as poorly as one would hope for, given the multiple top-7 picks that Billy has had at his disposal.

If it matters that much to you, ride every remaining game, and the battle for the 8th seed, with all your heart.

But know that we’re starting over, again, in the very near future…

By McLovin

March 21, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this

Playoffs or bust……….

By ray

March 21, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

BA,

When you and your alter-ego decided to drop the ebonics bomb, you made it what it is. Don’t start crying now that you are getting b!tch-slapped. You started calling me out first with your displeasure for my humorous monologues (except maybe you were afraid to call my name at the time). Then you sought to attack my grammar. Which, by the way, you are still wrong about. Go back and check. You began this. Furthermore, you began the name-calling some time ago with all the chick-head crap.

Your “contributions”, if they could be called that, have been nothing but negative, rarely about basketball, and usually a complaint about what someone else has said on the blog. How asinine can you possibly be? And yet freedom of speech and blog keep you around. Well, at least I don’t have to look at you.

By the way, I called you out some time ago when you started your attacks. That’s right, you’re the dyslexic A$$ Bandit, the answer to the riddle of the acronym BA, which is no doubt backwards, meant to be AB. Once again you have put truth to the saying that if you don’t know who the idiot in your village is…it’s YOU.

And it’s Klan, as in Ku Klux Klan, you raving lunatic. What’s the matter, don’t know how to spell the name of your own club?

By BA

March 21, 2008 1:30 AM | Link to this

Look, I’m with you, Woodson IS overmatched. Knight has been fifty-fifty as best, and when he missed, he missed BAD. But rebuilding? We have the better part of a solid team. He missed with Marvin, but it’s not like Marvin is a complete bust. He’s a solid 15 points and seven boards. Not a star, but a servicable wing player. Childress, Joe(a borderline star),Hortford, Smoove, these are all good players. The Bibby/Law combo looks pretty good. Imagine if they had multiple plays to run, instead of different variations of the same one. If we added a couple of bigs(defensive type players) and a real coaching staff, why couldn’t we become a top five seed type team?

By ray

March 21, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this

Talk about drowning in kool-aid and missing the whole point. To get a serviceable swingman, we passed on two all-star caliber point guards.

Add a couple of bigs? How? Billy missed each time in the draft. Who are we going to trade for those bigs, since we have no draft picks? They don’t exactly come free, and last I looked…good post players were coming at a premium…even injured ones. And it would seem that Billy doesn’t have the authority to make such moves (not to mention it’s too late in the season to do anything of the sort anyway), or we would’ve gotten rid of Woody and acquired Calderon some time ago. Billy’s one avenue for getting things done right was through the draft. So again, the question becomes…how do we acquire the type of guy or guys who can help Horford in the post.

Don’t get it twisted. Trading Horford is not a good idea. Even if you trade him for a premiere center (which won’t happen), you still have one post guy down in the paint by himself. Even Shaq needed help in his younger days. When he went to Miami, he needed the tough-as-nails Udonis Haslem to help with the dirty work. Horford is a star in the making. Get him help down low and watch the whole situation change. This also stops Josh from having to come over all the time to help out.

But AGAIN, how would this be accomplished? By trading one of our young talents. There is no other way unless we just let one of them go (both Joshes are up for new deals this summer…or not) and then trying to sign someone else. I think we see how free agency has turned out for us the last 2 or 3 years….

By Jeff Francoeur

March 21, 2008 1:52 AM | Link to this

Ok, Ray. I give up. Obviously you have some personal racial problem. I don’t. So I won’t play ball. If it’s important for you to think I’m some sort of racist, who am I to judge? And sorry I didn’t know how to spell “klan”. I’ve only seen that stuff on grainy black and white film on GPB. Otherwise, I’m not that familiar; I don’t even know if that stuff exists anymore. But in this sick world, it probably does. In any event, call me stupid, say I don’t know basketball, that’s all good. But calling me a racist is just innacurate. As far as the “humorous blogs”(And yeah, they were) I didn’t see the rellevance here to the Hawks. But in retrospect, it’s certainly not as bad as reading about somebodies new thong and what not. And BA are my initials, in that order. My sister is dislexic, but somehow I missed it. Instead I was blessed with this lovely personality. Or cursed, depending on how you look at it.

By BA

March 21, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this

I didn’t say I knew HOW to get the bigs! The only free agent I’ve seen is going to be Kurt Thomas, and I don’t think ANY of the ASG have the authority to sign someone like that because Belkin would nix it. I agree, you don’t move Horford. I don’t think we need a premiere center, just a servicable one, someone a notch above Lorenzen Wright. Big Al has done a solid job this year, and I think he should still see time at the five. The most important element will be the coach. My point is, this is NOT a horrible roster. So why rebuild as opposed to just tweaking the existing roster?

By ray

March 21, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this

Jeff Francoeur? Man, I didn’t know that was you! You’re one hell of a ballplayer and I’m glad that you’re a Brave. And I’m sure you’re not a Klansman. But what’s with that word you typed: “innacurate”. Or how about “sombodies.” I thought it was spelled “somebody’s”. And I could’ve sworn that it’s “dyslexic” not “dislexic”. Is that ebonics or something? I don’t know ebonics so well, so I’m not sure…

Yes, I’m f@#king with you, but I warned you not to make a grammatical error or I’d pounce…heh

My attempts at humor were only there to try and break up the monotony of cursing our “luck” in the draft, the lack of true progress displayed by the Hawks franchise, and general bickering amongst ourselves. It didn’t work, not even for me. If you haven’t noticed, Sekou Smith himself doesn’t always talk just about basketball on these blogs. I didn’t know it was a sin to do so…guess we better sharpen up those blog rules…

Couldn’t help you with the thong stuff, I’ll let maryb answer for that one. I guess we all have our happy thoughts, and thongs would be hers. Nah, no one is cursed wiht a personality…unless they’re a sociopath. In which case, things can get very ugly indeed.

By ray

March 21, 2008 2:23 AM | Link to this

I see your point. The problem is the decisions (or in some cases lack thereof) have put us in position to where we may have to break some things up. I don’t know what Belkin’s level of involvement is at this point. It’s entirely possible that he’s no longer in the picture and the ASG is looking for a replacement for his sizeable monetary contribution/investment. They have been doing some serious dirt and have also been very secretive here lately. The sudden departure of Bernie Mullin, the decision to rebuff Knight several times when he tried to fire Woodson…something isn’t right, and I have to wonder if Belkin has anything to do with it at all anymore. But I surely wouldn’t rule it out.

As far as rebuilding goes, we’ve remained in that stage. The roster has plenty of talent, but not a lot that fits, or we wouldn’t be struggling so hard in areas where no amount of expert coaching can help. Our team defense absolutely stinks, and teams are running layup drills on us nightly. And when they aren’t we’re getting drubbed from beyond the arc.

Tweaking is exactly the problem. We finally got a good pg, but he could very well be gone in little over a year’s time (I don’t see the ASG keeping him for the type of money he makes now-no way), which prompts the question: why was he really brought here? I can see him going in trade due to his expiring contract. I don’t see us getting that serviceable big unless we make a trade. No such guy will want to come here when another team trying to compete for and win a championship would be able to make a more attractive offer. Then again, perhaps I’m being pessimistic…

By BA

March 21, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this

You don’t have to drink any kool-aid, read these articles. Players around the league talk about the talent on this roster, Sekou has the quotes every game. In my opinion, this team as it is NOW could at least make it to the secound round in the East(again, with a REAL coaching staff). You add a center and we have a shot at the eastern conference finals. Call me crazy, but I’ve seen EVERY game and that’s my impression. And no matter what the situation with the ownership/billy goat/coaching staff this summer, they have got to resign Smoove and Chills.

By ray

March 21, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this

I think the thing we’re arguing about here is how we add what is needed. I don’t see us just pulling a center out of nowhere. Not one that’s worthwhile, anyway. It’s true that a better coaching staff (anyone, pleeeeease, anyone to replace Woodson) would take this team to another level.

I’d love for us to be able to keep both Joshes. However, I am dead certain that both players are absolutely coveted by other teams. Philly would kill to have Smoove. Smoove gets all the attention, so Chills is kind of forgotten when it comes to the public eye. However, many teams would have him in a heartbeat. Both guys will get contract offers that are either max or close to it. Will the ASG match on both, and at what cost? Will we be able to afford to sign a center in free agency if we retain both guys?

Furthermore, I think this team would’ve been just fine if some guys were tougher and meaner. Our front line has nobody taller than 6’10”, but all three guys (Horford, Smoove, Marvin) are athletic as hell. Nobody’s shorter than 6’9”. The problem lies in the fact that Horford is the toughest, and Josh is great-but more athlete than tough guy (but still a dedicated defender). And then we come to Marvin. He’s not tough, he’s not dedicated on defense, and he just doesn’t play his size. He plays like he’s 6’3”-6’4”. Detroit has destroyed teams for years without having a single dominating 6’11” or taller center. However, their unit is always so cohesive, so tough, and so intense. Ours isn’t. Is it coaching? Sure, that’s a part of it, but not all of it.

By HB Ando

March 21, 2008 2:48 AM | Link to this

Ok, I don’t know Jeff Franwhatever. And I’ve heard enough of BA to know that he’s a half-pint short of a half-pint.

But, as someone who knows Ray, and has spent hours talking philosophy of race. And, as someone who is not black, but is certain that Ray is, there’s simply nothing more ludicrous than the notion that Ray has “some personal racial problem”.

It’s both funny and sad, how often folks here (and everywhere, for that matter) clearly exhibit both their lack of intelligence, as well as their lack of comprehension about what has either been said, directly, or alluded to with a sense of either irony or humor.

I have difficulty remembering hearing anything quite as clueless as the suggestion that Ray, of all people, has racial issues.

But heck, this is an open forum, with no minimum requirements for intelligence to participate. So I guess I should never be surprised at just how off-base some folks can be, especially when they engage someone who’s clearly on a different intellectual plane.

But humoring the great, unwashed masses is charitable in its most basic sense. By ignoring the completely out-of-touch, we risk facilitating the emergence of latent sociopaths.

So, to those of you who fit the bill (and you have no clue who you are, or we wouldn’t have to address this), ramble on.

What did we do before there was an outlet for society’s lost souls? Or mobile phones, for that matter?

By BA

March 21, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this

Save it, Ando. All the extra words aren’t fooling anybody. If you were as smart as you think you are you would be more SUCCINCT. And we don’t need all the meaningless paragraph spacers. You’re stuff is all so PAINFULLY cute, but not really funny. Or smart. Just too many words. I need more substance.

By ray

March 21, 2008 3:58 AM | Link to this

Heh heh.

By doc

March 21, 2008 7:20 AM | Link to this

maybe the spirocete who probably doesnt know that is the organism that fries the brain when one has syphillis is really herschell walker having another issue with his many personalities. look folks, i think it is time to cut the head off of this monster with the short attention span that doesnt know who he really is as he goes about playing games with his name or has a dissociative identity disorder. just dont respond is the way to send him on his way. sadly, his good points are too far and few between to make up for the sickened slanderous soul that cries foul when he gets his own medicine that is the mirror that he tries to hide behind with each of his mini identity crisis. that is my best suggestion how to end the game of this monster.

when he/she/it wants to speak in its own voice so be it but it is too stupid to not realize which monster it is. i have seen at least three of it and possibly four so all of those that continue to play do so at your own risk. otherwise get the discerning scroll on because those that choose to continue like they are talking to one monster are really playing the fool, too.

By doc

March 21, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

here is an interesting link:http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=3300728

By fudd21

March 21, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Ray You said in one of your comments that the Joshes would receive max or near max contract offers from another team and would ASG match those offers. My question to you is do you think either are worth max deals. Many on here say sign Smooth for whatever the cost, but I just have a hard time giving max money to someone with Josh skill set. I love Chillz, but to me he is a bench guy in this league. Again, I find it hard to give max or close to max money money for a bench guy.

BA We would be much better with a better coach but I still don’t know if we would reach second round. We still wouldn’t beat Boston, Detroit or Cleveland. Orlando hmmmm maybe. The real question is what are we trying to build. A perennial second round playoff team (Mookie, Smith, Deke, and Laettner) or someone that can go to the NBA championship. To get to the championship, a total rebuild is not necessary but some bold moves are.

I still say we need a second go to guy. A SF that can hit the 3 and also go to the hole. Someone that can take the slack of Joe and run the offense through them when Joe goes to the bench. Right now we don’t have that person. Yes Bibby can be clutch and I have no problem with the ball in his hands with the game on the line. But is there anyone else on this team who I would trust with the ball in their hands with 10 seconds to go and the Hawks down 1. HELL NO!!

When you look at Detroit and Boston they have 4 and 3 guys they can run the offense through. Any of these guys can get the ball with the game on the line depending on matchups. Until we get another go to guy we cant beat those teams in the playoffs.

By drmaryb

March 21, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Hey Doc

(clap! clap! clap!) Well Said, the perfect cure for fool is silence. Silence really is golden. How many times can one beat a dead horse!

That horse is dead, Even if a fool changes his signon - He is still a fool!

Perfume on a PIG is just that - A Perfumed PIG!

By Tyger

March 21, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

H Andjob has lost his mind

By BA

March 21, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Yeah, the fascinating sexual exchange between “doc” and chickenhead dmaryb is WAY more intelligent than my blogs. I can’t wait till we get an underwear update. dmaryb is like the bimbo that just keeps talking LOUDLY about nonsense and no one in the room listens. News falsh: everyone is not as enamored with you as you are with yourself. You really showed your ignorance yesterday with the tired meth lab/gay bashing crap. And Doc, you sound POMPOUS as hell. The only monster here is your inflated ego. If you people want an intelligent discourse on the Hawks, I’m glad to provide it. Continue the personal attacks and they will come right back to you. I have seen nothing here that would suggest either one of you is in any way more intelligent than I am, so save the stupid stuff. If you don’t want personal (slanderous?!PLEASE) attacks then don’t use this blog as a personal forum. Dmaryb, did you really think ANYONE was interested in what freaking THONG you bought?

By Astro Joe

March 21, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Doc, after reading that ESPN article on the Thrashers, I think I’m ready to put my prediction down in ink… BK returns next year. Waddell sounds like he deserves to be fired even before BK. At least no one can question that BK has drafted NBA-worthy talent. Sounds like Waddell can’t even make that claim for his league. And yet, he gets to keep his job. Not sure if it is a function of not being able to hire a proven winner or the inability to come to a consensus agreement with all owners on a new team architect. (I think the latter). I keep coming back to the fact that the ASG has yet to hire a GM for either franchise. How can that be? How do you buy any business without first having your executive staff in mind once the ink is dry? I think we will see status quo until the divorce is final. Or, in the possible case of Woody, he takes another job with either his old college (Indiana) or the NBA team that gave him his first shot as an assistant, Milwaukee.

Ando, sending an email to Levinson to complain about BK is akin to sending an email to Bush regarding Rumsfeld. Rummy is gone and the mess is still a mess. If BK leaves, the same will be the case here.

By doc

March 21, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

i see the arrow found its mark.

By roan st

March 21, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Just took a peak at the Hawks remaining schedule and it’s definitely not a tough one. Starting march 25th- @chi, mil, chi, NY, @mem, tor, phi, @phi, @ind, @NY and ending april 11th is a 10 game stretch with only one team with a winning record. And if the Hawks playoff hopes comes down to a must win to end the regular season? How about the Miami Heat at home. No excuses for Woody about a tough remaining schedule because the Hawks have one of the weakest.

By Astro Joe

March 21, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Doc, I am efforting to be as consistent as our guy Clyde. Yes, BULL’S EYE!

By Sautee

March 21, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Hey BA:

I believe that it’s news FLASH, not news falsh.

And you talked about upping the ante?

Yes it’s “just a blog” but you were the one complaining about grammatical errors (that actually were not). Do spelling errors count?

I’m quite sure that Flash doesn’t want to be known as Falsh.

peace

By SalimFan

March 21, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

I just watched the nets game again and I realize that Bibby actually had a good game. He wasn’t ‘clitch’ from beyond the arc but he controlled the game fairly well hand handed out some nice assists.

By Sautee

March 21, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Sorry Doc,

Like Matt, I just couldn’t help but respond.

By Ramon

March 21, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

NATIONAL CAMPAIGN

MARVIN FOR BRUCE BOWEN…lol..

Seriously, I think if you can trade Marvin for a good perimeter defender and serviceable big man to come off the bench, you’re doing good. This is the year for Smooth and Chills to be resigned. I always believed the problems that Smooth have can be fixed quicker than the problems Marvin has.

You can’t coach defensive intensity into someone. Marvin is in this 3rd year and still lets his man slips back door, while he looks at the ball ALL GAME. Do you really want to extend someone for 5-6 years who plays defense like THAT? In that case you could’ve kept Glenn Robinson.

I believe if you can find a wonderful perimeter defender, that will lead to more points without Marvin. Defense leads to point, and pressure on the backcourt leads to turnovers. Saying that you can’t trade Marvin b/c of a mid-range shot (the ONLY positive aspect of his game) is foolish. Half of the pf and c in this league (even Horford and Sheldon) can hit from mid-range.

If you don’t resign Josh and Smooth this summer, you’re putting yourself in a position to have to sign Marvin to longer.

Josh and Horford play with good chemistry together. The problem with the layups come when Woody tries to place Smooth on the other teams SF (that Marvin can’t guard). When this happens, the lane is open for anyone who wants it. And with Marvin always payin attention to the ball, instead of the man he’s guarding, it always leads to one pass and 2 points.

The other problem is when Smooth is out of the game. Thats when teams just go straight to the rim. All great shot blockers are not always great centers. I say that to say you can find a decent shot blocker to come off the bench without paying a high price (Portland has three of them). Horford can start at the 5, and bring the added big off the bench when Smooth takes a rest.

I truly believe there is SOMEONE who would trade a good perimeter defender and backup big for Marvin STILL. So thats why you resign Josh and Josh.

By cp

March 21, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Yea our perimeter defense has been bad for the last 3 or 4 years actually. We can’t keep guys from driving past us and getting inside the hoop causing either Josh or Horford to try and come over and defend that player thus leaving somebody open which is why we give up so many rebounds or guys just dump the ball off for an easy dunk. We have to fix this aspect of the team. Probably next year because it wotn be happening this year. Richardson could be that small foward who could open up the floor for us but he has tow work on his defense this summer and improve in that area. I think that kid has some potential. I get on Marvin a lot but I do like the kid I just think its a situation where the playher has tons of potential but may never realize how much he has and learn to use it all. I hope he gets it but sometimes it is just frustrating watching him get stripped driving to the hole or not being able to dribble pass a defender or even taking a 3 pointer. It might take someone to get in his face and get on him or some veteran to work with him this summer to make him realize he has all the tools to be a great player but just not the mentality. Then again he could be that type of player who’s mindset does not coincide with his physical tools. I hope that made sense if not im just saying he has the tools to do it but his mentality is far away from matching his gifted skill set.

By honest_abe

March 21, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

lol. i must say i thoroughly enjoyed todays banter. i’m sorry but BA reminds me of me when i first started blogging in here.

a little advice BA. even though people might not be responding to your posts, they are being read. you don’t have to attack to get a response from these folk.

like ando said But heck, this is an open forum, with no minimum requirements for intelligence to participate.

thank god or i’d have been banned a long time ago. heh

By drmaryb

March 21, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

A parting shot for One Brain Cell

Chiropractic is my PASSION It is a priveldege to be associated with this profession. I am living my DREAM!

If you don’t know anything about it?
You might want to ASK - SOMEBODY!

Here’s a List of Referrals:

Tiger Woods Terrell Owens(his chiro lives in his basement, he can’t live w/out him - qoute) When asked how he returned to play the Super Bowl in Philly against M.D. advice, he stated CHIROPRACTIC, EMS-Electrical Muscle Stimulation & NONI-JUICE - ESPN-LIVE.

Andruw Jones has his chiro in the dugout at all games - why? (because he couldn’t make plays without him)

Chiropractic is from GOD - You FOOL! (Yes read proverbs you will see the word fool/s a lot!) to reject chiropractic is to reject GOD. Why?

Because the power that made the body gave the body the power to heal itself!

To a man, all we can do is interfere. Chiropractic removes interference along the neuro-pathways so that the brain can tell the body what to do!

That is why world class athletes perform at OPTIMUM LEVELS while fat & lazy people sit around and talk about them.

By SalimFan

March 21, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

If they were all still in college, Josh Smith, Al Horford, and Marvin Williams would All be seniors. So it isn’t fair to give marvin a shorter improvement timetable than the other two. Their all young and have a lot of stuff to improve upon but thats what you get when you REBUILD a team from scratch. Personally I wasn’t as critical in the past few seasons of the hawks as I am of them this season because of their GROWTH (this season) and potential to be the youngest team in the playoffs this year.

I think those three young guys should all be judged together because they are all about the same age, very taleted and CONSTANTLY improving. They are not busts like SHELDON who played all 4 years in college and had tons of time for his game to mature.

Some players who played four years in college(who aren’t busts) don’t need to mature ofensively, the just need playing time (Coughsalimcough*chough)

By honest_abe

March 21, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

sorry salim fan. nobody is saying marvin is a finished product. but his ceiling is quite lower than most of hoped and in no way is he ever going to be as important to his team as paul and williams are to theirs.

By SalimFan

March 21, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

I realize that but the hawks did get the best player from UNC in that draft. Felton, Sean May, McCants…marvin is producing and more valuable to his team currently than those guys are to their respective teams.

I could see him being paul pierice “Like” in a couple of years. Most small forwards operate without plays being drawn up for them. So for marvin to be averaging 15ppg behiend joe and josh is ok with me.

By dakid

March 21, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

It’s not that Marvin can’t improve, but it’s where he was drafted, and the point that we have other’s that play his position, and that swing men are a dime a dozen. Look at college Basketball now, if he was a senior coming out, he probably wouldn’t be a lottery pick this year. And someone made a great point, we need to see what type of team we are trying to build. A Steve Smith make it to the second round team, or a NBA title contender.

By Ramon

March 21, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, but you can not show me where Marvin is constanly improving on defense. The number one rule in any man to man defense is stay with YOUR man. How many baskets did Jefferson get from losing Marvin, when Marvin was caught watching? When they’re playing defense, Marvin is a spectator like the rest of everyone in TV land. You can teach shot selection. You can teach a shot. You can NOT teach common sense defense, the key word COMMON.

I think on the right team Marvin would do great. But for this team at the moment to get perimeter defense and a solid back up, he is the man to give up. The Hawks will never be a contender with only one player on the court who can cover the perimeter.

Bibby is what he is, he’s a great offensive pg and SMART defender at times, but he’s not a ‘Mookie’.If you have a better ball defender at the 3 (or 2 and move JJ to SF depending on the weakest matchup), this will help JJ have more energy at the end of the game.

I’m not trying to dog Marvin, I’m just saying he’s the one easiest to replace, and still has value

By HB Ando

March 21, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Joe: fair enough….

But you can’t seriously believe that it’s inconsequential who would replace Billy. No one, not even the ASG, would pay upwards of a million dollars a year, if it just didn’t matter who was doing the job.

The problem with your analogy is that, in this instance, I would have sent the opinion to Bush, regarding Rumsfeld, at or before the decision to invade Iraq. In 2005, I didn’t so much complain about Billy, as question his competency, going forward, with so much at stake for the ASG, in their need to rebuild the franchise quickly and successfully. I noted my concerns that Billy had chosen Childress over Igoudala and Deng (again, in ‘05), which has been supported by the league-wide perception of the status of the three players, as they all head into restricted free-agency this summer. I recall that both Deng and Igoudala declined offers for 5 year/$55 million extensions. Some how I doubt that’s the kind of numbers that are being discussed for Childress’ services. I also made my well-known distaste for choosing Marvin over Paul a point of reference, in questioning Billy’s competency. I’ll say again, for those who may be more recent members of this blog: Sekou has confirmed, at this very site, that I was adamant about Paul being the correct choice for the second overall pick, BEFORE the actual draft. This is not hindsight. And highlighting that I was communicating, nay, predicting, this clusterf%$*, back in ‘05, simply underscores that a layman, like myself, could validly question the ASG’s decision to entrust Billy Knight with the rebuilding of this franchise.

So, to paraphrase your point (I think): both the ASG and George W. Bush, are incompetent leaders, who’s choices for field commanders are equally appalling. And the less than optimal outcomes, of both situations, which were largely predictable, at the genesis of their respective inceptions, is not so much a lesson the use of analogy, to undermine a valid point, as it is a reminder that two, even completely unrelated, wrongs do not make a right.

Joe, I think you’re wrong to use Waddell as support for your theory that Billy will be back. I think the house gets cleaned, 8th seed or not.

Billy not only is a bad GM, but he’s a poor representation of the franchise, as he continues to exhibit utter disdain for maintaining accountability and accessibility to the local fan base.

His quotes, from a couple of years ago, where he stated that he laughed at the public clamoring for a viable point guard, and dismissed the second-guessing of everyone with an opinion, as he “simply knows more about basketball than everyone else”, were viable evidence of his lack of credibility, as he subsequently overpaid a chronically injured, career back-up, point guard, to a $26 million contract, and gave up an early 2nd round draft pick for Anthony Johnson, a player he had previously waived. His avoidance of addressing the PG position, with an eye on the long-term stabilization of the position, later led him to compound these stupendous mistakes, by not only drafting Acie Law, but then trading for an over-rated, $14 million/year Bibby.

So much for him laughing and dismissing the public calls for him to address the PG situation, AFTER he had passed on Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy and Randy Foye (and let us not forget that most prognosticators projected Monta Ellis as a late first-rounder, the year he came out, yet Billy chose to select a one-dimensional shooter, in Salim Stoudamire, who not only lacked PG skills, defensive ability, basic handle, and a lack of viable size, but also was disruptive enough, while at Arizona, that Lute Olsen asked him to transfer before his senior season).

The ticket-buying public has no faith in either Billy or Woody. The handful of fans, wearing rose-colored glasses, who find being 10 games under .500 reason for optimism, will not equate to ticket sales, next season, without some type of definable change in leadership and an acknowledgment that the rebuilding plan of Billy Knight was pre-dominantly a failure.

Analogizing Waddell’s situation is incomplete until you see if he survives the off-season. The GM-to-bench coach move, in the NHL, has repeated precedence. Yet it is rarely employed in the NBA, and typically for good reason (see: Thomas, Isiah).

Once again, the bigger question is who, outside of the current ASG roster, provides the adequate financing (I think I estimated a low of $150 million) to buy out Belkin’s 27% stake. And, more importantly, what will that individual, or group, demand in the way of operational control? Certainly, such an investment will come with expectations that drastic changes are necessary, given the clear and unacceptable lack of improvement in this franchise.

The ASG may not want Belkin as a partner, but I cannot imagine that whomever puts the money up to buy him out won’t want the same level of control that led to the ASG’s desire to split from Belkin, in the first place.

10 games under .500, and nary a peep from those who predicted win totals between 41 and 50, during the pre-season.

How can the ASG NOT clean house, if they are to maintain even a fraction of credibility with the local fan base (which doesn’t even address the fact that they have ZERO credibility across the NBA, it’s players, and the agents who direct those players while considering new destinations)?

No leadership, no draft picks, no center, no capable head coach, a potential “AK47” scenario with Josh Smith and his market value, no respect around the league that would suggest that a missing piece can be obtained via free agency, and a $25 million back court who are both likely wondering where they’re next stop will be.

One can only thank James Dolan and Isiah Thomas for obscuring just how screwed up this franchise is.

BA, if you can’t discern the substance of my long-standing, and agonizingly detailed, points, then you’re either as clueless as you sound, lack basic reading comprehension skills, or are just plain retarded.

I’ve been breaking this abomination down, since Day 1, on this blog. You’re assertion that my posts lack substance is akin to a small child who’s best, and only, retort, when challenged by a brighter and quicker wit, is to say, “I know you are, but what am I”. The irony of you making nary a single, specific point, in attempting to dismiss my offerings, could be the optimal use of an example to contextualize the description of a word.

But, since you both brought up substance, as well as suggesting that “If you people want an intelligent discourse on the Hawks, I’m glad to provide it.”, we’re all here, waiting for you to offer a single, coherent, previously unstated insight. Somehow, I’m pretty confident this is a wait that will never see an end.

As this has been mentioned many times before, this is an open forum, requiring neither insight, competency or literacy (which makes it the perfect forum for the BA’s of this world).

We embrace diversity here, and recognize the presence of ‘tards (BA) and tarts (msmaryb). Indifferent to your collective participation, feel free to prattle on (disclaimer: I know the use of the term “tard” is both politically incorrect, and largely insensitive, and want to highlight that my use of such a distasteful word was intended to be both satirical and specifically directed at the inconsequential BA).

That enough paragraph spacers for you, you F’in idiot?

By drmaryb

March 21, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Hey Mr Long-Winded

Shut Up!

By Astro Joe

March 21, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Ando, Levinson has said that Waddell will return, so I’m taking him at his word. And it’s not that I’m not saying that BK (and Woody) don’t need to go. I just have zero confidence that it will happen. I recall a Tim Tucker article many moons ago that said that the owners must agree on a new GM and coach as well as dismissing the incumbents from those positions. I have zero confidence in their ability to agree on the next GM. I could see Belkin wanting Jan Volk or some other former Celtic architect. And Gearon and crew wanting to open it up to more candidates. How much do you think Belkin will want to cast his vote for Gearon’s choice? Will Gearon pay? Will it cost Gearon the governorship role? And would Gearon’s choice evern accept the position knowing that he and his family could be terminated upon the judge’s ruling? That’s why the only scenario I could see a replacement is if they promote the current asst GM on a pseudo-interim basis. That still feels like a franchise in flux as opposed to one with a clearly defined course for the future. Think that interim GM will have the autonomy and bankroll to do his job?

I’m not a hockey fan but that espn.com article certainly portrayed the Thrashers as a franchise in worse shape than the Hawks. Don’t know if the writer is credible, but I assume he is given he’s writing for “the worldwide leader”.

So more than stating that the ASG shouldn’t fire BK, I can’t help but wonder if they “can replace” him. Because they haven’t replaced their hockey coach (some 60 games after firing him). It just seems like too many stars and planets and asteroids and moons need to come into alignment for the ASG to actually replace the GM/Head COach of either franchise. After 5-6 seasons of combined failure, we ain’t seen it yet.

By drmaryb

March 21, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

The most talented writer on this blog is RAY

HANDO or whatever is a BORE! YAWN - He puts to sleep with all that noise. Your point is lost in translation. Get to the point and SHUT-UP!

Brevity is Brilliance -Dr.B.J.Palmer- (The Father of Chiropractic)

By jami$$ion

March 21, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

HEY ANDO?Can i ask u something?A coach is suppose to teach,help,& guide a team.Kinda like a parent.Find disrespectful kids.Guarantee you’ll have,broken households & bad parenting.Just think.Do u think your kids a be successful if woody raised them?And these selfish,arrogant,undisciplined kids need to also share a portion of the blame.The ASG is also VERY much accountable.For interfering into the GMs activities.Vetoing trades,drafting players,overruling firing,& RUNNING A ORGANIZATION ON THE CHEAP!

By doc

March 21, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

ando, from the article which was written with such disdain for the thrashers leadership and the lack of anything positive to say about waddell and was so one sided though probably accurate i came close to saying something snide that it paralleled your same venom for bk except written about the thrashers and it oule have been written by you. it is a bit of a compliment and it was in your same stlye and that you could certainly write something similar for espn about billy.

read it and weep if you think that bk is a sure bet to be gone because if he does go he has a class action suit. there are so many comparisons to be made to the “success” of waddell you better get ready for disappointment. i agree with aj that if anything it supports the idea that the BASG will make believe that positive things are coming out of this mess. only difference in the two, they got rid of the best known and well accomplished individual in their organization in hartley at the suggestion of waddell and apparantly denied bk to the firing of woody. since the only positive comment about woody was that he didnt complain it must mean that hartley didnt keep quiet and allow the emperors to have no clothes if you get my gist.

me, i think they are just doing their best to stay solvent and money for the josh’s will be hard to come by. i think you are living in the past still and though you have repeatedly made your case for bk to be gone the article made as many similar points to get rid of waddell. sadly, they have only given their support for him. i know it will be extremely hard for you to swallow but come into the present and realize it is probably better than even money that he stays.

aj agree. ando, i suggest you read the article if you havent though your depression might deepen.

By jami$$ion

March 21, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Ando say u work at sara lee.And you’ve been the head baker for 20yrs.And they sell the company to hienz .And now these ketchup people are trying to tell u how to bake cake.Do u think you’ll be successful?Well neither does BK.I don’t like every sara lee cake,but most of them are good.Hell between the people with no expertise.Telling you who to draft,trade,hire,fire,promote,& pay.And the abusive,neglecting,ignorant nanny.Nowonder why the daycare’s runaway.

By jami$$ion

March 21, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

Lastly i just personally ,me personally think BK’s gotten a bad rap.BK SAID GIVE HIM 5YEARS.HE’LL BUILD A DEEP TALENTED TEAM. THAT A BE ABLE TO COMPETE IN THIS LEAGUE.He spent his first two destroying it.And the next three rebuilding it.He realized he had the wrong guy coaching last year and couldn’t fire him!Do i like all his picks?No.But whose to say,he wasn’t persuaded to take DUCK.Every1 from Nique down hailed him as MJ2.And whose to say he can’t be better under different teaching.That goes for the team

By new jersey faithful

March 21, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

What if the Hawks are really good next year, and for many years to come? What will this blog look like? Would it be possible to turn all the hate into love? No one will have anything to complain about, except for winning a title!! Imagine making the playoffs every year, then the only complaint will be failing to win it all…..unless of course the Hawks do! Doesnt sound too bad!

By jami$$ion

March 21, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

One last thing ANDO.Do u think if chills were used as the third option (let alone a first or second)he could hit two or three more shots a game? I mean he is like the 5th or 6th option.I know he can.And those meger 4 1/2 pts a put his avg right there with yo precious deng & iggy.Woody runs no plays for him as is.He gets his the hard way.He takes them and earns them.We deficate on his shot but dude shoots like 60pct.Instead of shredding BK for chills.Lets hold him down for js & thank their gms.All 15 of’em.

By doc

March 21, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

njf, did someone hit you over the head after the last game.didnt you watch that debacle earlier this week? woo boy, spring has got you by the a$$.

By Matt

March 21, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Ah. Another day, another game where Sean Williams has more fouls than points, rebounds, or blocks.

Thank God Billy finally got a lottery pick right this year!

By new jersey faithful

March 21, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Sorry doc, but I was just thinking what it would be like to actually follow a winning b-ball team. Its just funny to see all the long posts and hate with such a sad franchise, so it would be interesting to see what this place would look like with with some winning going on!

By doc

March 21, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

njf it will be fun and i too hope we get to the promised land. reality shows this to be more built like the clippers than the pistons. chief i have been following the hawks for 50 years now plus one so i have seen it all except a championship. the period from 68 to 98 werent too bad last ten years have been nothing but puke. there was a time where the coaches were innovative and seasoned along with the ball players.

look dont mind me, go for the enthusiasm. i just remember your frustration from the other night. presently, i cant get to up or too down on these guys. had them slotted for 35 to 38 wins so i got what i expected. the folks that were shouting how great shels would be this season based on how he finished last season, how great acie is and how marvin would have a break out year have fallen by the way side along with their prognostication of 45 to 50 wins. it was beyond reason. live life in fantasy, go for it but dont be disappointed because it is your own illusion.

By HB Ando

March 21, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Joe, that’s pretty funny. You quote Levenson, and say you take him at his word. I quote the same man, in addition to hearing the same thing from Gearon, at the town hall meeting a few years ago, that Billy has complete autonomy for all personnel decisions, and you scoff at my representation, questioning either my honesty, or theirs.

How convenient that the words of various ASG members are golden, to you, when they align with your position, and suspect, if not altogether manufactured, when they don’t.

You missed your calling: you should have been a politician.

I’m big enough to say that I honestly don’t have any more idea than anyone else here, as to whether Billy will be fired this summer. It remains my personal opinion that he should, and will.

jami$$ion, sometimes things are as simple as they seem. Igoudala and Deng are both players that their franchises are building around. Childress was, is, and projects always to be, the sixth man on a perpetual lottery team. If he’s not good enough to start for a non-playoff team, then that speaks for itself. The league is full of guys who, if given minutes and attempts, can put up numbers. But, more than anything, the market defines a players’ value around the league. So, check back with me when Deng, Igoudala and Childress all sign new deals this summer. The amount of their contracts will tell you all you need to know about where each of them rank, in the league’s pecking order.

maryb, you sad, lonely woman, why are you still here? You contribute nothing but the occasional distraction. If richbrave has moved on, why have you not desperately followed him, offering yourself without shame?

While the number of posters, here, has grown, the quality of opinions, increasingly ill-informed, or just down right clueless, continues to plummet.

Doc, I’ll take your word for it. My level of interest continues to wane, as this organization annually matches my lowest, documented expectations. I ask meaningful questions regarding the reality of a likely $150 million buy out, and what level of control an individual, or group, would reasonably expect for that kind of investment, and I get, from that intellectual midget, maryb, “yawn” and “shut up” (in caps, no less). It’s like re-directing insolent children. Maybe if we give mary a time out, or a cookie, she’ll offer something more than petulance (though it seems beyond her grasp).

Finally, of all the half-assed analogies, what in the world does baking at Sara Lee have to do with Billy Knight’s horrible draft decisions?

By jami$$ion

March 22, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

Now listen to this.Just because iggy or deng gets a big contract doesn’t mean they deserve it,or their worth it.U know like i know their are plenty of jerome james , dampiers,mike dunleavys,wally szerbiaks,lafrenz,kwame browns,currys,q richardsons in this league getting bogus money.and just because some one is willing to throw money and over spend doesn’t mean said players worth it.and i personally wouldn’t build around any of those 3,u can go back & forth with me.Ask yourself this, last shot 2 win

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 22, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

How do you know it’s an HB Ando post?

When it takes 5 seconds to scroll through it while using the page down button.

By jami$$ion

March 22, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this

Is your man clutch?and i know the answer just as well as you?No.and i can name a few 6th men that i’ll take before iggy or deng.ginobli,udrih(my bad he a starter now),ben gordon,barbosa,calderon.You can say you wouldn’t take these and that’s cool.i wouldn’t build my franchise around any of them either.But with the game on the line i would feel a hella lot better and a get better results than with deng or iggy.U build a team around a great perimeter player,a good point,or a good big.Your guys aren’t either.

By BA

March 22, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this

Hey Ando, “pre-dominantly”?! That’s one word, you mouthbreathing tool. Is that “reading comprehension”? Another tip: if you have too use SIX commas, it probably should have been more than one sentence. And again, using five extra big words to make a simple point doesn’t make you look any smarter. The longer the blog, the more you sound like a MONGOL. Why take seven paragraphs two nights in a row to basically say, “I think I’m smarter than Billy Knight because I wanted Paul”. Hell, half the free world wanted Paul! That’s no revelation. Challenge my intelligence when you can exhibit some of your own. Honest Abe, you got me on the typo. In spite of myself, I have to admit my antagonists(dmaryb, doc, etc.) often make some excellent Hawks/Braves points. I probably should lay off. I DO like this Ray, much rather see some of his stuff than this Ando rerun from last night.

By Najeh Davenpoop

March 22, 2008 2:36 AM | Link to this

When the f-ck did this blog become an exhibition of language arts skills?

By doc

March 22, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this

it is not often that one can find truth on the internet these days:

“By BA

March 22, 2008 3:30 AM | Link to this

Man, they deleted that crazy blog FAST. I hope they don’t start deleting obnoxious blogs too. I’ll be out of business.”

you said it and we didnt have to. took the words right out of …

too funny. would only have liked to have seen the missive that got the reaction.

peace all.

By richbrave

March 22, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this

HB ANDO:

I enjoy your baroque manner here at the liarsZ table. Don’t let your interest flag just yet. I haven’t moved on. Your posts keep me coming back.

Hello denizens, I’m ba-a-ack!!! Must post up my paramor drmaryb ASAP. I see she’s become testy in my absence. Girl, you’ve been laying down some good stuff about your Hawks if the motley assemblage would just care to listen. What’s this 50 yard-line stuff lady? Yo no comprendo?

BA:

Have you been putting names with your multiple personalities? Tisk,tisk. I told you that anger and aggression here would paint you into a corner. Now go work on your people skills. I’m interested in your takes on all things Hawks.

ray:

Feeling mello since that brief interlude away from the gritty streets of Atlanta? Hope it had the desired cathartic effect. Keep up the great work here as well.

doc:

my man how have you been we’ll have to chat some time about circulatory chest matters since you were once emersed in such details. That is, if it is not upsetting to you. Like me, you seem to sincerely take matters to heart(no pun intended).

I note a despondit tone to the blog. Losing to New Jersey must have been a real downer. But the Hawks are on the border-line of the play-offs despite disfunctional ASG, BK and coach. Your schedule is quite favorable. Suppose you had to entertain Detroit then go to the west coast for five in seven days? Humm. I’ll take the Hawks schedule the rest of the way thank you. And with that - later, lest I become Ando-esque with my comments. One admonition. Take one game at a time. Focus on the next opponant and support your team. Leave tomorrow alone until the end of the season.

By doc

March 22, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

thanx richie for the advice. would be glad to chat.

By Astro Joe

March 22, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Ando, I don’t believe the reason Levinson gave for keeping Waddell, but I do believe he has little choice. And no, I do not believe that BK ever had the autonomy to trade Al Harrington for an eqaul contract returning to the Hawks nor did he ever have the autonomy to take our salary just shy of the luxury tax threshold (which serves as the true hard-cap number for the vast majority of NBA teams). And most recently, I believe Sekou that BK didn’t have the autonomy to fire a horrific coach. As well as BK not being allowed to acquire Calderon in the off-season. In other words, I believe it’s all about the money and suggestions to the contrary I find utterly unbelievable in relation to this ownership group.

By richbrave

March 22, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

doc:

I gotta’ unload man. Had three by-pass at 51. No heart attack. Family genes. After ten years the right descending graft closed. They put three stents in the circumflex graft November 28 and it collapsed. The mammiary artery is still free of lesions. They’re talkin’ medicine. I’m already taking seven pills a day. The blockages in my neck and legs can be helped. I asked the surgeon to look for the blockage in my left leg. He said simple to fix. Meds might do it. Going to the cardiologist monday morning first thing. Cumedin? Rat poison? Is that the medicinal remedy. I’m thinking a double bypass myself. What say you learned scribe.

By doc

March 22, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

richie, i needs to know more man. listen, i think you have given your e-mail out before, if you are comfortable doing it again let me know. i am not as i have alrady had a famous ga tech grad take offense by sending me a threatening e-mail after i commented on his public comments to the ajc about gt football. about that tme the ajc came up with the policy that for certain aspects of life politics and sports it was best to not allow direct links. if so at that point we can exchange phone numbers.

there is a book to begin to read called the china study, second it is all about cutting down on inflammation and third if you are on a statin drug then i need to help you get the antidote because it poisons the mitochondria and nervous tissues throughout the body and can damage the muscle of the heart. yes, things your cardiologist failed to tell you but merck patented and didnt bring to market way back in 1989. google satin drugs, merck and co q-10 and see what it delivers.

i need more data on what they have found in your vascular system including the corotids and on the stress test that i suggested you were headed to finish and if they did the cath what that showed as well. btw the mammary is a very good vessel and it can get blood to your whole heart if it is clean and attached say to your LAD which is probably where they dropped it. finally, it is about the symptoms, having been a surgeon and trained where they invented cardiac surgery in houston saw many re-dos, would avoid it if possible.

there may be some other things i can suggest including yep diet and exercise which is only something your cardiologist gives lip service to AFTER the stent he placed that is going to fail 50% of the time in 6 months. ultimately it is about conditioning and getting your body and its endocrine system back into shape to function better and to down regulate the inflammatory system.

sorry obnoxious one if i took up too much of your space.

rich, again it may be tmi but there it is bro.

gfp chime in when ready.

By roan st

March 22, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

I too read the espn article about the thrashers and Levinson’s stance that Waddell will return next season. And I wholeheartedly agree with Joe, that if they are willing to bring back Waddell, then Knight will probably be back as well. The only difference I see in the performance of the two, is that Waddell as been F%#king up the thrashers longer than BK has the hawks. And you could make an argument that with the selection of Josh smith and horford that Billy has at least had some minimal draft success. Waddell seems to have had far more draft bust than even bk. I just hope that this court battle gets settled soon so we at least know where this organization stands going forward. I believe the dark cloud that hangs over the ASG has a lot to do with not making any leadership changes.

By richbrave

March 22, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

doc;

Virus ate e-mail. Have a neighbor who’s a cardiologist. I shouldn’t burden you or this blog with personal info. Sorry all. Thanks for the info doc.

By doc

March 22, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

no burden felt. maybe it will get you started.

By doc

March 22, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

roan my take as well, if waddell is ok by them then bk must be doing the job they want him to. it is a case of underfunding alluded to by aj above and one theme i have brought up for now almost three years to the point i do my best to not broach it without some provocation which the article does.

the hockey team is run along the same guidelines, do it on the cheap. it is guys having enough money to own something but not to be competitive with the big boys. it is playing the game of solvency only. look waddelll has a tougher job in that there are more folks to try to bring into the fold of quality in numbers alone that bk doesnt as well as try to get some kind of minor league “system” which bk doesnt but both guys have a decree and that is to run it as tight to the guidelines set by the leagues and the unions. be sure it is not to satisfy consumers and fan bases. no argument can be made otherwise and i am yet to hear one. some say it is woody. some say it is bk but none of those can argue the point that ownership has done anything to suggest it is running a first rate franchise for the enhancement of its fans/consumers.

By Clyde

March 22, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By roan st

March 22, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Doc, you’re exactly right. Winning in professional sports starts at the top. Name one sports dynasty that didn’t have a passionate owner who was willing to spend to win. Thats why I still believe that Arthur Blank will succeed with the falcons. He has the desire and the deep pockets to make the falcons a winner. Now if he will just stay out of the way. Imagine how good our braves would be right now if Blank had bought them instead of liberty. Put braves management on a level playing field and were contenders again. Even after the lawsuit is settled will the hawks have enough money to contend or will they be the old clippers. Unless a big money investor comes in I think it will certainly be the latter.

By ray

March 22, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

AHHH, all is normal. The team doesn’t play for a few days, and so we feast upon each other…

This sort of reminds me of the first year of this blog, in which my friend Ando was universally hated. Even I gave him a pile of venom at least twice a week…before getting to know him personally. Hell, he was even the one who offered the olive branch during our “discussions”, which went from titanic clashes to…well, actual discussions (with less cussing and truly artful insults). Sure, like anyone, he has his vices. And I’d agree about his long-windedness if it didn’t make me out to be a gigantic hypocrite (seeing as how I have the EXACT same issue).

The difference? His posts tend to be dominating doses of truth with some tongue in cheek humor here and there. Mine tend to be humor with some truth thrown in (no real lies…they don’t mix well, and I despise lies). So give the guy a break. The man isn’t evil, but he will give as good or better than he gets. He’s a great writer, and if you didn’t think so, then you wouldn’t take the time to wade through his river of prose, now would you? Heh, heh, heh!

But I digress. The drama continues this evening. Perhaps I shall find enough data to construct another headliner. Perhaps not. The real issue is how much fight our guys have left in them. 14 to go, with one against Orlando tonight.

Honest Abe, you’re a classic. Your art of stick-poking is unrivaled and therefore cannot be replaced.

By BA

March 22, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

No complaints here, Doc. Richbrave is a quality blogger and I hope dude is ok. Sounds serious. I wouldn’t dare throw stones at something like that. You know what they say about karma. “Obnoxious one”, I kind of like that! You can bet I’ll be real obnoxious tonight if our boys can pull out a win.

By Ken Strickland

March 22, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

I’ll just add my two cents worth on the GM debate. Considering what’s transpired with ownership, especially the blocking of BK’s attempts to fire Woodson, none of us can determine if BK is solely responsible for who we have, and have not drafted. I think the FA signings are on him, although he obviously had to receive prior approval from ownership. That’s all I’m going to say on the matter.

Woodson has got to start trusting his bench and his team overall. That means resting JJ and JSmith even if we fall behind with them on the bench. He hasn’t learned that most NBA gms are won or lost in the 4th qtr. That’s certainly when we’ve been getting our butts kicked, due to certain players being exhausted. He should play the bench liberally in the 1st half, because if your bench is going mess up, let it be in the 1st half, when we can recover, not the 4th qtr.

It seems if we get a big lead in the 1st half, our key players are too tired by the 4th qtr to maintain it. On the other hand, if we fall far behind in the 1st half, they’re too tired to catch up in the 2nd half. He!!, it’s hard to maintain a high intensity when your butt is dragging after playing most, if not all of the 1st 3qtrs. WHAT IS THE

By Matt

March 22, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

I’ll weigh in on Knight, although I fully expect to get maimed for it ;-). Of all of Billy’s decisions, the only ones that I would classify as ex ante mistakes (i.e. mistakes that were clear mistakes given what people knew at the time) were drafting Shelden and signing Speedy to a contract with no injury-related clauses. You have to judge BK based on whether he did better than most other NBA GMs would do in that situation.

On that basis, here are brief reviews of Billy’s big moves:

Drafting Diaw: Clear as day that Diaw was a good player that was misused by Woody. His performance on the Suns shows that Billy knew what he was doing. Drafting Childress: Scouts were torn Drafting Smith: Biggest steal of the draft. ‘Nuff said. Signing Zaza: A lesser steal, but a bargain nonetheless - find me another big man who produced as well as Zaza did for the price we got him for. This year he’s not looking so hot, but dude was still a huge bargain. Trading for JJ: He got the Hawks’ best player since Nique, and all we gave up was a good bench player and change. Could we have gotten him for less? Probably. But by any measure, trading for JJ finally got the Hawks a star to build around - and even if we’d lost our pick to the Suns last year, it would have been worth it. Drafting Marvin: I’ve talked this one to death already, but here goes. Every single draft board had Marvin going #1 or #2. The first rule of the NBA draft is that you don’t draft for need (see Sam Bowie). The conventional wisdom at the time was that Marvin was a future superstar and that most teams would be crazy to let him slide past #2. Hindsight is 20/20, folks. Signing Speedy: This turned out to be a disaster for the Hawks, and it was somewhat foreseeable since Speedy had been injured in the past, although in fairness he WAS the best free agent PG on the market. Drafting Shelden: This was just a mistake. Shelden was a predictably weak prospect. We should have traded down if possible, or packaged this pick to get a PG or C. I still maintain, however, that Roy would not have found the minutes he deserved on the Hawks and thus would not look like the star he turned out to be. This was a bad draft in general; I just would have gotten out of it. Drafting Horford: See my debate with Clyde. Awesome pick - maybe the best draft decision in the entire draft, since taking Durant at #2 was a no-brainer. Drafting Acie: I think that Acie will develop into a good PG - certainly the best that was available at this point in the draft. Trading for Bibby: This was a steal - we got a great PG with only 15 months left on his contract in exchange for spare parts. Even better, this corrected two of Knights’s earlier errors (drafting Shelden, failing to get us a starting PG) in one swoop. Having his contract is actually a plus, since it gives us trade bait for next year.

Of course there is one other: Hiring Woodson: Yeah, he was the lead assistant on the team that had just won the finals, and his college coaching experience made him appealing as a player development guy. But I have a tough time seeing how Knight saw Woodson as the right coach for a long-and-fast team. Then again, even the most successful GMs (Krause, West) have hired coaches who were awful fits for their team (Tim Floyd, Randy Pfund). Coach-picking is maybe the hardest part of being a GM to get right. But I think this mistake was foreseeable.

All in all, I think Knight has been a better-than-average GM, particularly given the limitations that he’s worked under. I think that given the fact that the ownership group has tried to override AT LEAST two of his biggest decisions (those are just the ones we know about!), he’s done a good job under godawful circumstances.

Now tear into me ;-).

By Matt

March 22, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

My J-Chill analysis got cut off there:

Drafting Childress: Scouts were torn about who the best swingman available was. Taking Smith at 6 would have been a reach; Deng’s athleticism was in question (I know, that sounds odd now, but just read the Yahoo! and NBAdraft.net profiles of him); and Iguodala’s defense was thought to be weak. Most GMs probably would have gone with Iguodala and a few with Deng, and a couple called Childress a reach, but no observers thought Childress was a bad pick (and as an ex post matter, he certainly hasn’t been).

By ray

March 22, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

Matt, I see no need to tear into you. I really can’t argue with some of your points. I think that hiring Mike Woodson (and then keeping him) was one of the biggest mistakes Knight made.

I still differ in opinion on Marvin Williams. But what we’re arguing here isn’t what it seems. Marvin was the guy with the most upside or potential, if you will. He was the most intriguing prospect. I think a lot of websites and boards had him pegged at #2 because of the “prospect” hype and because they all knew we held the #2 pick. Knight’s picks have mostly been easy to predict for different reasons. Somebody always managed to leak the info, or Billy’s ideas were simply too obvious.

However, being in desperate need of a pg and difference maker, Paul or DWilliams were clear and sound ideas. Marvin was a guy who projected to be another Al Harrington, who we already had. The sad thing is, Marvin has still not developed into as good of a player as Al. He has no post game (Al does). He has no long range game (Al does). He cannot take over a game with his scoring (when needed, Al could).

I agree that hindsight is 20/20. But when you’re NOT drafting for need and going with talent, do you go for a guy who’s clearly already a winner/leader/difference-maker/starter/dominator, that ALSO happens to fill a position of desperate need…like Paul? Or do you draft a guy who has “oodles” of potential, projects to duplicate what you already have, and hasn’t been good enough to start on his team the only year of college he’s played? Seniority wasn’t the reason Marvin wasn’t a starter in college. It was flat-out ability. Other freshman who’ve started their college tenures? Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Durant. I could be wrong, but I think that this one fact alone should’ve been enough to not draft him at #2. How many other non-starters have been drafted this high, particularly this high in the lottery?

Furthermore, this would not have been viewed as being such a big mistake if pieces had been moved to compensate for it, whether right then or later on. I mean, how long have we been scoffed at (and scoffed ourselves) for having so many of the same position player? Most teams would’ve have used such assets to gain something of value in a needed spot. But we didn’t. And I’m not going to put it ALL on Knight.

But you have to wonder…if the ASG is to blame for direct influence on this…when did Knight recognize this would be a problem, and why did he not compensate for it by drafting better? And when was the first time he tried to get rid of Woodson? If it was more than a year ago, then this rabbit hole goes much deeper than any of us may ever know…

By Matt

March 22, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Ray,

You know I got nothing but love for you, man, but two rather huge facts that are invariably left out of the description of Marvin as a reserve at UNC are 1) What type of team he was playing for (i.e. the NCAA champs); 2) The fact that he played a starter’s minutes; and 3) Who he was “backing up” (Sean May).

He played more minutes that year than all but three of the starters - and those starters were May, Felton, and McCants, all of whom were juniors, All-ACC players, preseason Wooden Award favorites, and future NBA contributors (at least until May caught the injury bug). With May at PF and McCants at SF, and given the fact that he STILL played starter’s minutes (remember - Havlicek was also a “reserve”!), it’s hardly a red flag that Marvin didn’t “start” his freshman year while Durant and ‘Melo did.

By Matt

March 22, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

Haha…obviously, change the “two” in that first sentence to “three.” I need some sleep…

By doc

March 22, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

ba i will smile tonight if we win, unfortunately the magic are tearing it up from three point land. i think we all realize that is our achilles heel as our defense isnt quick enough or smart enough to do the necessary rotations t o stop it. they do play the game because it is doesnt always go to plan, so i will still be hopeful as the game approaches.

By ray

March 22, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Matt, I understand what you’re saying. I’m not saying that it was a red flag, so much as it should’ve been a note of caution. I just never saw the guy as that much of a monumental talent. I’d have to say that a lot of people (myself included) would be proven wrong if another coach (replacing Woody) or placement on another team caused Marvin to suddenly sprout into that star, LOL! But for some reason, I don’t see him quite going that far. I watch how he plays, and he just doesn’t have the killer instinct…yet. And I’m tired of the word “yet” when it comes to a player and his potential. Ah well….

As for Chris Paul, all I can say is the dude dominated in college, is dominating the pros, and is now…in his 4th season no less…a VERY strong candidate for NBA MVP. My stomach hurts with each dazzling performance and my head hurts with each accolade. But I am glad for him.

By Ken Strickland

March 22, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

DOC-you can smile now, heh, heh. Good win Hawks. For most of us, if Woodson had done a better job of utilizing the talent we have, the players we coulda shoulda drafted wouldn’t be that much of an issue.

By steve

March 22, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

Vince can do that to anybody, at any time that he wants to or feels like it no matter who is guarding him.

The only person that can stop Vince Carter, is Vince Carter. Its the way its always been and will continue to be.

That aint Josh Smiths fault, it will happen to anybody guarding a motivated Vince Carter and its been that way for a decade.

Luckily for Vinces opposition, 90% of the time he is not motivated or hungry to do anything.

By HB Ando

March 24, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

BA, not surprisingly, you evaded the essence of my point, which was that you called my posts lacking in substance, while offering no backing or support for the position. And then, when I mentioned that very issue, you, again, responded by rambling about comma’s and dashes, rather than picking up on any specific opinion with which you are in disagreement with.

You see, Joe and I may build on 3 years of arguing the finer points. But at least we’re arguing about points. You, BA, on the other hand, obliquely suggest an opinion, designed to rally broader support, that I’m irrelevant. But you lack both the recent, subtle cues, of other long-term posters, that I may be infuriating, but I am rarely inconsequential. And the fact that you do not, have not, picked up on those cue’s, underscores both your lack of credibility, as well as basic pertinence.

You praise Ray, but find him supportive of both me and my submissions. Do you not struggle with the incongruity of such a juxtaposition? How is it that Ray could provide you with such literary comfort and confidence, yet confusingly, to your simple mind, intercede, on my behalf, in responding to your inarticulate attacks on my content? Does that not make you wonder?

I’ll “challenge your intelligence” when you exhibit a fraction of the word. It’s funny how, within a dozen blogs, there’s a BA who offers that over half of all opinions supported the drafting of Paul, over Williams, while there is Matt, who refers to a broader consensus that Marvin was the obvious, upside, choice, for the Hawks. I’ve already pointed out, long ago, that Billy Knight was indicted by the NBA press for failing to keep his intentions, at draft time, secret. I’ve highlighted what was written, on DraftExpress, when they, just pre-draft, accurately positioned Shelden at 5, and Solomon Jones as our second-rounder (their explicit point being that prior to finding out that Billy was going to reach for both players, each was ranked much farther back than their actual draft position). DraftExpress made a point out of criticizing Billy Knight, that summer (beyond the mind-boggling decision to pass on Roy, Foye and Gay, for Shelden), for fronting an organization that gave up all trade leverage by leaking its intentions to all the other teams, rendering the Hawks impotent in trying to leverage the value of it’s draft position.

Now, BA, here I go again, actually offering content, when it’s counter to your assertion that I’m all words, and no opinion. Yet here I sit, waiting for you to respond to quantifiable issues, while you massage yourself and your tissue-thin ego.

If you get around to actually having an opinion, let us know. The Hawks have sucked for years, so we have little to look forward to other than either a rare insight, or the opportunity to b***-slap yet another pretender to the long-defined food chain.

Joe, as usual, I’m pretty sure you didn’t address my point. But I’m forgiving enough to allow that you’re more in tune to the analogy that exists between the Hawks and the Thrashers. What I’m wondering, without bothering to research it, is how do the Thrashers rate, competitive-wise, from a play-off perspective, with the Hawks, over the last two years?

The Hawks haven’t been even close, until this year. If Waddell has moved the Thrashers, higher and quicker, during his relative time as organizational head, is it apples-to-oranges to suggest that his status defines Billy’s future?

Not saying, just asking……