Hawks

By randy

February 7, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

HORFORD FOR ROY!! Too bad Acie still stinks though. Atleast we can depend on Lue for some production given the right matchups.

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

I think the adoration for Josh Smith on this blog is getting out of hand. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot I like about Josh - his hustle and aggressiveness, and he is clearly the best shot blocker in the game. But he is a terrible decision-maker, and pretty much a maverick whose style of play doesn’t fit well within a team concept. I think he’s a real liability on offense because he’s so often out of control, and constantly damaging momentum (often the same momentum he created on the defensive end) with poor shot choices and errant passes. I think it’s worth noting that the hyperbolic praise for Smith on this blog is pretty much not shared by anyone outside of the Hawks community, especially scouts and talent evaluators for other teams. I’d be very surprised if he were to find his way onto the All-Star team - ever.

T-Lue is amazing. One of my favorite players - ever.

As for the crowd, that’s a huge disappointment. But I would say it’s more reflective of the sports culture in Atlanta in general, as opposed to just a Hawks thing. I went to see the Braves play the Red Sox at Turner Field last summer, and it was roughly 70 percent Boston fans. Crazy that we can’t turn out better support for our teams in the big games. Ordinarily I would say that it probably takes years of winning to change that kind of culture, but in the case of the Braves even success hasn’t worked. It’s just Atlanta.

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

And where was Acie last night? Very disappointing that the kid gets NO experience in a game like that one. Is he hurt? Something hasn’t seemed right lately.

By terrell barron

February 7, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Acie stinks? I wouldnt go that far. I’ve seen a lot of promise from this kid. Give him some time! Sekou, I dont think I would put Marvin in the same sentence with Smoove and Horford. He’s WAY TOO inconsistent. When his shot is off, he needs to step it up in other categories, such as rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, etc…. For example, last night he had 12 points, 1 reb, and 1 assist, while Kobe had 11 points, 1 rebound, and (10) assists. I need to see more from Marvin, especially when the jumper isnt falling, before I can mention him in the same breath as Al and Josh S. Now with the way Chill has been playing, he should have been the one mentioned, not Marvin. That guy can do a little bit of EVERYTHING, something ya boy hasn’t learned how to do.

By steven

February 7, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Josh Smith is 22 years old, his shot improves every year, and he plays with a no fear attitude and is a mad man out there on the court. Add to that he is a hometown boy and does a fine job representing the A. He appears from the outside to have a good head on his shoulders, so what’s not to like? Imagine how good the hawks can be in 3 years, with Joe, Marvin, Josh, and Al as the centerpieces. Maybe we’ll get lucky and bring in J. Kidd for Childress, Shelden, Lorenzen Wright, and Anthony Johnson. If this team had J. Kidd running the point they would be legit title contenders in the East, and you can’t tell me every other team in the East would be scared as heck to face the Hawks in the playoffs. I plead to Billy Knight, make this move!

By gobirds42

February 7, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

great game last night. j-smooth is very wild and makes poor decisions but he makes up for it with hustle and energy plays that the fans and team feeds off of. one of those things we will have to live with. would u rather a calculated player like chill? i think chills and jj balance smooth’s wilder play. i also would like to think his decision making will improve with more time. he would be a senior if he went to school. thats wild. as for the crowd, it was laughable but oh so rewarding when we kicked their a*******es outta there crying. go birds

By I.MUS WRITE

February 7, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Jo Bling-Josh deserves all the adoration he gets here. The guy single handedly keeps us in games with his play. Josh is a yung player who gets better each year,he is also still yung 22-so the shot selection will get better- and if it doesnt i will still take 17/9/9/5 on a nightly basis.

Confusing: “TLUE is amazing,one of my favorite players -ever”

WOW THATS UNBELIEVABLE: Just so im clear you value TLUE more than Josh?

I hope you are’nt base’n this on last night’s game-because Lue wont show like that every game….

Newsflash-Josh is way more valuable to this team than Lue. Just a couple weeks ago he was in the dog house, and got dogged here for his inability to push the ball or defend.

We should be shopping Marvin,AC,ZAZA,Sheldon and expiring contracts to get what we need

By Sekou K. Smith

February 7, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Marvin has plenty of things you can knock about his game, as do all of these young cats who are still very much works in progress. But consistent is the one thing Marvin Williams truly is. He’s scored in double figures in 42 of the Hawks’ 44 games this season. NO ONE else on the roster can claim a scoring streak as consistent.

And I was talking about a starting group of frontcourt cats, so that’s why Childress wasn’t mentioned in the above item. But he’s certainly an extremely important part of this team’s mix.

I won’t even entertain the knocks on Josh Smith’s decision-making. Becuase if I have to take a few bad decisions to get all the other stuff he brings, I have no problem doing so.

By terrell barron

February 7, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

The same thing happenend in New Jersey. They were chanting MVP for Kobe, when he went to the line. The Lakers have fans EVERYWHERE. The Hawks should just be thankful that they sold out, regardless of who the fans were so-called rooting for. I’m just glad they won.

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Steven - I think there’s a lot to like about Josh Smith. He’s simply a remarkable athlete. I’m just trying to look at it more from a general manager perspective in that basketball teams are such sensitive projects to build. Every team in the NBA has at least a few great basketball players, but finding the right combination, the right mix, the right chemistry, is so difficult. I’m not sure Josh aids the Hawks chemistry, and I think that ultimately is going to harm the team’s chances of success. I realize he’s incredibly young, so, yes, there’s a chance he can grow into a more mature and responsible player. If the Hawks keep him, I sure hope that’s the case.

By xldoug

February 7, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Jo-bling you can officially be ruled clueless in the realm of basketball insight. JS is not thought highly of outside this blog?? Let’s let him walk and see what happens. Does he make poor decisions at times? Yes. Does he take poor shots at times? Again yes…but the bigger question is WHY does Woody have him standing at the 3 pt line as the kick-out option in the first place. How many of his “bad shots” are at the end of the clock when he catches the ball in that position? Do you actually watch the games? He impacts more possessions on both ends of the floor than any player on the team. Warts and all he is the best PLAYER…not scorer but player on the team

By Hawkamanic81

February 7, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

You know it’s not surprising that the Atlanta fans would cheer Kobe. His is a role model to a violent city like Atlanta. The fans root for a criminal?

Nah… No surprise at all. He fits in with the city of Atlanta.

By Clarkekent

February 7, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

fire woodson they win inspite of… not because of.

By Traceman

February 7, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling, you picked the wrong time to criticize Smoove. There is no doubt that he makes bad decisions at times but calling him a “terrible decision maker” when he has averaged 20 pts (on 61% shooting), 8 rebs, 8 assts, 6 blks, 2 steals and only 3 to’s per game during our 3-game winning streak is WAY off base.

His decision making has CLEARLY improved as the season has progressed as his FG% has increased in every month of the season. Smoove was pressing early thinking that he needed to score a lot of points in order to get a big contract in the off season. Once he realized that the size of his contract was going to be determined by his all around play rather than his scoring, he has improved dramatically throughout the season.

In addition, saying that Josh’s style of play doesn’t fit well withing the team concept is ridiculous. He is very unselfish as is reflected by his assist numbers and he creates more for his teammates than any player on the roster other than JJ. He also covers up for his teammates’ mistakes on the defensive end with his shotblocking prowess. Josh makes his teammates better and that is the ultimate sign of being a team player.

As for Acie, he will likely have to earn his way back inot Woody’s good graces after his terrible performance against Philly. He didn’t even scratch in the boxscore in that game and Philly’s lead went from 8 to 15 in the less than 5 minutes he was in the game in the first quarter. As the backup PG, Acie needs to show Woody that he can come in and give us a spark when we are down and he hasn’t done that. Acie DID do a good job of maintaining our lead when he got in the game against NJ so hopefully Woody will give him a chance in the CLE game. I think Acie is showing signs of being a terrific PG for us, it just might not be his time THIS season.

By Frank

February 7, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

JOSH SMITH IS BETTER THAN MARION NOW.

P.S. HE,S 22

By doc

February 7, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

sekou, i can say being one of very few honest to goodness natives of atlanta that we are few and far between. over the next twenty years that may change but there are many folks from say new york area, la and californians, boston or new england or chicago that bring their allegiances with them. unless the native team becomes a winner, it is what it is. until that changes there will be always folks from the other teams ready to rub it in. it is always fun to go to a braves game when the cubs are in town because those folks are willing to take so much abuse or maybe the mets folks. it is what makes atlanta great too, still a bit of southern charm with international flavor.

cant get over what folks still say about j smith as he continues to ascend. his game is so far from what it was last year or even two months ago it is downright silly. some of the passes he made last night were great and will only get better.

By Ryder

February 7, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Sekou to phrase your quote “I can’t say that I ever remember being in an arena that was more titled against the home team that Philips was last night. I’m dumbfounded, even four years into this thing, that this still happens here. I guess I shouldn’t be, considering the venom that’s spewed about this team on a daily basis”.

Is that a shot at your fellow AJC journalists?

Not trying to instigate, but if it is good work my man. It seems even Bradley has come around to liking the Hawks.

One thing that people don’t look at is how Horford’s presence and just sick desire to bring it every night has this team in playoff contention, despite a below .500 record?
Unfortunately these awards are based on the hype machine so Horford’s probably looking at second place.

Good analysis on the Hawks’ frontcourt. John Hollinger wrote an interesting piece in ESPN yesterday about how more effective Horford would be if they ran more because he is so quick. The Lakers look like they were plodding all last night, Kobe’s messed up finger or not.

I liked how they were determined to not let the pro-LA crowd stop them. My question is why can’t they bring that same intensity on the road?

But that’s another rant for another time. Today the Hawks took a major step as a team to get to that next level. Josh Smith is exactly the kind of player ANY team in the league would love to have! He brings it on both ends of the court and doesn’t pout when he isn’t getting the shots.

Haters can pile on him all they want, but he is the perfect raging yang to Joe Johnson’s calming ying. Mix them in with Horford and a DEVELOPED Acie Law (hopefully) and you have the core of a championship team.

Even though I don’t see how in h*ll BK would make any deals before the deadline I have to ask this:

If the Hawks can only get one additional piece via trade what should it be a shooter or big man?

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

xl-doug - Before you stoop to slinging names like “clueless” you might want to check your own basketball knowledge, and not speculate as to how it stands up to people you don’t even know. I’d put my 24 years of experience coaching high school and summer-league basketball up against your basketball “knowledge” any day. You are a Hawks fan. Of course you love Josh Smith. That’s great, but it doesn’t have anything to do with real player analysis. I’ve already posted on one of Sekou’s prior blogs some of the opinions of Josh Smith as seen by other teams’ scouts. These guys are paid to evaluate talent, and they don’t like what they see in Josh Smith - at all. And, yes, I do watch the games. All of them, including the 10 to 12 I attend in person. Josh Smith is a fun athlete to watch, but I don’t ever see him being part of a championship-calibre team.

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Traceman - Thanks for actually posting a reasonable argument about Josh. Yes, I know I’m picking a bad time to criticize him, but I’m not going to change my opinion based on three games. I’ve definitely seen some maturation this year, especially lately. But he’s teased us before and then relapsed. In the end, with Josh, it’s always going to be about getting his numbers. I just have to disagree with your statement that he makes the players around him better. I’m not sure he and Marvin and Joe really work well together. With three guys like that, why are we 22nd in the league in scoring?

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Traceman - Thanks for actually posting a reasonable argument about Josh. Yes, I know I’m picking a bad time to criticize him, but I’m not going to change my opinion based on three games. I’ve definitely seen some maturation this year, especially lately. But he’s teased us before and then relapsed. In the end, with Josh, it’s always going to be about getting his numbers. I just have to disagree with your statement that he makes the players around him better. I’m not sure he and Marvin and Joe really work well together. With three guys like that, why are we 22nd in the league in scoring?

By Hawksville Resident

February 7, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

I’d like to talk about the crowd last night because I think it’s worth mentioning that the crowd probably did more hurt than harm for the Lakers. Sure they had a lot of “fans”(I use the term loosly because they’re one losing season away from being on someone else’s bandwagon) that were loud from the start but I think the Lakers “fans” energized the Hawks more than the Lakers. In response to the crowd, JJ came out gunning, Horford played like a mad man and Josh Smith was the man in the fourth quarter with all of his energy plays starting with the and one over Turiaf!

By Ryder

February 7, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling- I do see where you’re coming from, but there are other things in which I disagree.

For starters, I do think Josh Smith can be a great part of a championship-calibre team, it’s just that he can’t be THE major part. His game is similar to that of Tayshaun Prince and AK-47 in which his athleticism helps the team on defense and he can attack the basket more than others.

His drawback is that he hasn’t yet developed a complete basketball IQ, which comes with time. His freakish moves to the basket can only last for so long, and if he wants to continue being successful he will need to learn how to rely on all of his skills as he ages.

But hey, he’s 22 right now so there is plenty of time for him to put it all together. I just hope it’s in Atlanta where we see him become the complete package.

By mykhalc

February 7, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling, your first paragraph of your 11:09 post is just pure fiction!!!!! i think you’d find yourself 100% WRONG if GM’s were polled about JSMITH. flaws and all the cat is a real difference maker!!!

now your 11:48 post was more on the money. and you might have to come to the conclusion that JS is one of the 2 leaders on this team right now. his all-around play SETS the tone for this team, with JJ and HORFORD bein’ a close second.

so you might wanna prepare yourself for the contract SMOOVE will get before the start of next season!!! ;o)

yessir, this one’s for you…

WOODSON’s gotta go …PERIOD!!!

By doc

February 7, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

shooter, as we know that will open things up a bit for mid-range guys and the guys underneath. it will get us there but not far until the big man cometh. you got to make it to the dance before you can get a partner.

By George

February 7, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

To: Jo Bling…

I share your thoughts about Josh being out of control and errant passes. However, 1. He’s 21, 2. He’s never played college ball and 3. Most of the time, he makes up for the aggressive/out of control type plays. I’m willing to watch him develop into the NBAs next generation of Superstars.

By xldoug

February 7, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Jo bling: Not a personal attack…simply an observation. I will, However match my 26 years as a high school coach…still going strong as we speak…with your 24 in a t**-for-tat. Anyone who expresses an affection for T-Lue…attaching the adjective “amazing”…while minimizing the impact of JS is…if not clueless, then simply really wrong. Like I stated before…we will see what happens when he hits the open market. Not part of a championship team??? If he does hit the open market and go to say Cleveland or Orlando you may be proven wrong.

By newkid

February 7, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Wow Sekou. Are we to infer that your impression of a ‘consistent’ basketball player is one who scores north of 10 points per game with regularity? C’mon dude.

For a couple of years I was a HUGE fan of Marvin’s (I’m partial to all players with Carolina connections), and don’t dislike him now. That said, isn’t it rather disingenuous to not recognize how precious little the kid brings to the floor when his shot’s not falling? Whether by design or inclination he doesn’t move much at all off the ball; the coaches are literally begging him to be more aggressive (here in his 3rd year!) on the offensive end of the floor; he often appears averse to sticking his nose into the mix for rebounds; he almost never finishes around the basket after contact (check out how few “and 1’s” he has this year); he competes with Zaza for the dubious award of the most clumsy cat on the squad; and he doesn’t appear to play very good help defense. He’s a long athletic guy who is capable of lighting it up when he’s on and who has what appears to be huge potential, but he’s hardly a consistent BASKETBALL PLAYER at this point in his career. But he’s a Carolina guy, so I’ll continue to be in his corner.

Just tellin’ it like it is.

By terrell barron

February 7, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Anybody can score in double figures, especially when they dont defend, rebound, block shots, or distribute. You mean to tell me you’ll take 10 pts, 0 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks over 7pts, 3 assist, 3 blocks, and 5 reb? I wouldn’t.

By smartguy

February 7, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Jo, you’re officially on the IDIOT LIST, whose opinions will now get glossed over. You said, “I think there’s a lot to like about Josh Smith. He’s simply a remarkable athlete.” That’s a contradictory statement, and Jo, there’s so much more to Smooth than athleticism. 24 years of high school and summer league ball have left you as clueless as a first grader. You can talk to all the high school scouts you want, but I guarantee you that Professional NBA scouts think he is awesome. So do NBA coaches (many on the record after he gives them headaches), so do NBA players (Gilbert Arenas as quoted by SS in the preseason). If he should hit the market this summer, you’ll look even more foolish.

If you want to question my basketball knowledge from your HIGH SCHOOL perspective, go for it. You’ve been focusing on lower level hoops, where I am focused on the NBA, college hoops, the D-league, and even international ball. The fact that you prefer T-Lue over Josh Smith says all we need to know about you. I don’t even think that T-Lue himself would say he is a better player than Smooth. As a final point, don’t high school coaches actually work during the day? Bashing our best player… what a joke.

By Mike

February 7, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Abbreviated blog from the last post

Sweet win last night. There is no doubt in my mind that Smoove will be an All-Star and a Super Star in this league one day. I would keep Chill over Marvin. Chill plays defense and crashes the boards, Marvin just hasn’t displayed the desire to consistently play defense and crash the boards for someone his size.

Sekou Marvin is a great talent, but thus far in his career he shown a propensity for playing inconsistent on defense and crashing boards. How big was that offensive rebound and put back of Chill last night. Guys are not hatten on Marvin because he’s not talented, it’s the hustle play when your shot is not going they are talking about. At 6’9’’ and a big body, Marvin is capable of impacting the game on the defensive end and crashing the boards every night, regardless of how many points he scores.

With the way TLue has been playing lately, I still stay the Jamal Magliore deal would help us just as well. TLue seems to be really starting regain some of the quickness he lost from his injuries. Man he was huge in the fourth quarter. What we learned from last night is that Gasol would help on offense, but not with defense and rebounds in the Pivot? The Hawks need a Big that can block shots and crash the boards.

These guys are still fighting their hearts out, you gotta respect that if you’re a Hawks fan. Hopefully the ownership will do something to help these guys out. I think the Phoenix and Lakers trades were great for both team because of what they gave up to pull the trade off. Neither one of those teams gave away their top talent. I think the Hawks can do the same with the Magliore deal. We should be able to pull that trade off without breaking up the core.

GO BEAT THEM CAVS HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Lamar

February 7, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

The move we need to make is for Eddy Curry. He is one of the best low post scorers in the game and he would allow Horford to back up Smoove in the PF spot. He isn’t as good a rebounder as his size would suggest, but Smoove’s rebounding prowess will make up for his deficiencies. Curry for Shelden/Zaza

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Acie doesn’t stink, he just needs playing time. I think as long as the Hawks are going to rely on their two veterans at PG, they should send Acie to the D-League so he can get some burn. He’s not going to improve while he’s sitting on the bench.

Jo Bling, you are insane. Yeah, Josh Smith has his decision making issues, like any 21 year old. But even over the course of this season his decision making has improved rapidly. He’s always had above average court vision for a forward, always had the ability to know where a ball is going to bounce so he can get the rebound, always had the ability to time his blocks perfectly, and always had the ability to get his hands in passing lanes. Over the course of this year his understanding of the game has improved to the point where his shot selection is acceptable, even if it’s not outstanding, and he makes a lot more good passes without trying to force as many bad ones. If you are still trying to nitpick his game you are insane. Even the elite players in the NBA make a couple of bad decisions in each game.

You’d be surprised if he ever made the All Star team? I wouldn’t be surprised if he made it this year as an injury replacement, if one of the players already selected were to get injured. A “maverick who doesn’t fit into the team concept” doesn’t rack up near-triple doubles in three out of four games.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I was there yesterday too, and I don’t think it was an 80/20 Lakers crowd. Most of the crowd wasn’t exactly made up of Lakers fans, just front-runners. In the first half while the Lakers were winning you could hear “Let’s go Lakers” and “MVP” chants for Kobe. In the 2nd half as the Hawks came back the same people started cheering for the Hawks, and clowning the true Lakers fans who were so vocal in the first half. In my entire section there were only about eight or nine dedicated Lakers fans, decked out in Kobe jerseys and everything. Atlanta is a city full of front-running sports fans who root for whoever is winning and hate on whoever is losing. That’s the real problem.

By Tyger

February 7, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Damn right, Al Horford is ROY

What has Durant really done? Avg. 20 ppg. on 25 FGA, on a team that wont win 20 games. Thats not impressive.

Leading your team to the promised land despite being the smallest center in the league is impressive.

Like Josh Smith, he makes plays that make you go “Whoa”, and not dunks, usually rebounds, that he takes off the glass so hard that you can hear it in the upper deck.

Against the 76ers, he grabbed a rebound so hard, he knocked 7’0 Dalembart to the ground, minutes later he blocked Andre Miller for the win.

Shooters: I hear Salim Stoudamire’s healthy and available for cheap.

Otherwise, Steve Novak, Juan Dixon, JR Smith, Gerald Green, Mike James are excellent 3pt. shooters that are available and relatively cheap.

JR Smith and Gerald Green are especially scary; even with their warts; nobody knows better than us what that kind of size, youth, and ability, can foster.

BIGS: Lorenzen Wright, Solomon Jones, Shelden Williams are all available from what I hear.

By traptout

February 7, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Al Horford = deserves ROY trophy. Josh Smith has bad decision making?, but he gets around a triple double every other night. Nine assist the past two nights. Recently he’s had a high fg%. Watch the Hawks before you comment/criticize them.For the past 2 months J-Smoove has been our best player and could have been a justifiable all-star. We will only go as far as Joe Johnson takes us and over the past month or so he’s been incredibly off. We have a good team worth rooting for, they’re just young. Be patient. GO HAWKS!!!

By jami$$ion

February 7, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

IN THE WORDS OF YOUNGDRO I’M SICK OF IT! SOME OF THESE ANTI JSMOOVE COMMENTS NEED 2 STOP. PERIOD THEY ARE ILLOGICAL AND THEY MAKE U LOOK IGNORANT.LIKE HIS GAME ISN’T BALANCE,OR COMPLETE. HOW MUCH COMPLETE DO U WANT? THE GUY AVG 19pts 9rbs 4asts 3.8blks&2stls. Thats the most complete line in the league and it’s only going 2 get better.Be thankful 4 the talent the BASKETBALL GODS HAVE BLESSED US WITH!

By ray

February 7, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Sekou, that’s a sad fact about the fans. And while I do support the team (although quite unhappy with some of the players), a losing record, literal misfit of a coach, and continual losing record are hardly motivation or inspiration for great fan support.

Ken, coy doesn’t suit you. That’s all I’m going to say. Well, except for this:

The sad thing is the strengths of each player could solve the 2 major weaknesses. This would be true for another team perhaps, but not for ours. Our strengths can be used to our advantage, and they will indeed help us win more if used properly. However, they will not ever be enough to get us to the next level or two. Even the wildly successful Phoenix Suns have fallen victim time and again to the old tried and true systems. Does Mike D’Antoni’s system work? Of course it does. But what are the Suns trying to do…win the championship. Have they yet? No. So has his system, with the players that were in it, succeeded? No. Not yet. With Shaq around, the system doesn’t get changed, it gets modified a bit. The only way you can truly mask a weakness or disadvantage is if your strengths are strong enough. Ours aren’t.

To have a running game, your entire squad must be able to run, at least to some extent. I’m talking at least 7-8 of your guys. So, that rules out Pachulia, Wright, and Sheldon Williams. Lue and AJ can run for maybe 5 minutes. Then they’ll need to have a break. Acie doesn’t get to play much lately, but he can certainly run. Mario has obviously been forgotten. Speedy is just plain OUT. We don’t even know if Solomon can run because Woody hardly lets him play at all. I suspect he would be just fine. Same with Salim, who is one of our “shooters.” So that leaves us with about 6 guys who can do it. And guess what? None of them is a pg, and none a center. Coincidence? Yeah RIGHT.

You have to have shooters, whether you like to run or not. Phoenix runs all day, and boy do they have shooters. That ought to be example enough right there. Simple fact is, running isn’t all about just dunks and layups. You have to be able to stop and pop a jumper, whether it’s short, midrange, or from beyond the arc. When caught in a half-court game, you only have two options: score inside or score outside. Gotta have shooters. We have four actual shooters. One midrange, one mostly mid-to-long range, and the other two are capable from all ranges. One of the all-range shooters doesn’t get to play. The mid-to-long range guy plays mostly 4th quarter and half court sets, and doesn’t run much.

Our strengths aren’t strong enough. Not enough shooters, not enough runners, not enough scoring, not enough defense. Teams that have all these problems don’t have winning records. Coincidentally, neither do we. Will we win some good games like last night? Of course. But we won’t win enough of them. We fail because we don’t have enough. You cannot justify occasionally beating teams that are normally better than you while losing to teams that are normally not as good as you. It’s called inconsistent. And it’s called having a losing record. The win against L.A., as good as it was, means little if we go and get the crud beat out of us by Cleveland.

We cannot get past the fact that changes need to be made. Coach needs to go. We need players that can actually provide some of the things we claim are our strengths. It is what it is.

Sekou’s right that Marvin has consistently scored in double figures. Can’t take that away from him. I’d still give him up in a trade that works for us before I’d give up Horford, Smith, or Johnson. And to be honest, I’m not sure I’d give up Childress before Marvin either. Al is a beast we haven’t seen the likes of in a Hawks uniform since actual centers like Mutombo and Willis. JJ is an all-star. Josh is on another planet altogether. Marvin’s good, but in the grand scheme of things, is he more or less replaceable than the others I mentioned?

Here’s another tidbit: Childress has played roughly 368 minutes less, has taken about 209 less shots, literally does NOT get plays run for him (as others have mentioned), has not started one game this season, and has a much uglier jump shot form…all in comparison to Marvin. However, Childress is shooting a whopping 58% to Marvin’s 47%, gets almost the exact same number of rebounds, and is only averaging 4 points less. Oh, and Chill has been to the free throw line for 106 tries, whereas Marvin has been for 275 tries. Chill gets 30 minutes off the bench. Marvin starts every single game and gets about 36. Literally every other stat is within or less than 1.0 in difference except fouls. Chill averages 1.8 fouls per game, while Marvin averages 3.1. Does it sound like I’m presenting an argument of some sort? With those kinds of stats alone, I don’t believe I need to.

Just a bit of food for thought, I honestly cannot see how we can get better and add pieces that we desperately need without parting with at least one of our young fellas. Just don’t see it. Hopefully it’s not more than one, but you never know.

By mykhalc

February 7, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

SS, on point. ROY votin’ SHOULD NOT even be close!!! again, HORFORD hands-down for his stats AND the difference he brings/makes to his team!!!

By reese

February 7, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Wow, I go to Mardi Gras and the hawks go on a 3 game win streak. Believe me I haven’t seen any basketball since last friday. Well, maybe some things that were as big as basketballs. Anyways, I turn on NBA TV top ten highlights and Josh Smith is dunking on somebody.

Jo Bling, this is why fans in other cities know about Josh Smith. The Lakers are on national TV every week and Phil Jackson plays his bench. This is why fans know about Jordan Farmer, Turiaf, Walton, ariza and vujacic.

Jo Bling, you say that you’d place your 24 years of high school and summer league coaching experience to justify the analysis of Josh Smith not being the right fit for this teams chemistry and a terrible decision maker. Well it might be time for you to evolve older teachings into newer thinking.

Also, all scouts and GMs make mistakes with judging players. It’s evident that high school and summer league coaches of today have failed to teach the fundamentals to the players of today.

You imply that Josh is just an athlete and fail to recognize the hard work he has worked on to improve all facets of his game. He has started shooting with his right hand, he has increased his assist and steals and maintained his shot blocking.

He understands that his long term success means that he has to improve his outside shooting and ball handling. Which means that you have to take those shots and must dribble the ball to get better.

You just can’t stay in some old fashion box of just staying in the post or always passing to the guard when your a forward.

Those are outdated concepts that were taught about 24 years ago.

By l

February 7, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

f da hatas

By ray

February 7, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling, I won’t call you an idiot. Even idiots deserve credit every now and again. Got to HoopsHype.com and read the article dedicated to Josh Smith. This guy didn’t know how to do basic things when he was drafted. Basic things like dribble, pass, shoot. He couldn’t defend. Now he is one of the most absolutely feared shot-blockers (ask DWade how it can happen to you). The guy is averaging 18 points a game despite not having a decent jumper (still needs work). He’s getting over 8 boards a game along with nearly 4 assists, and more than 3 blocks. You’re off base big time. You’re talking about a guy who is learning and is committed to learning how to become better. No one encourages and supports his teammates better than Josh Smith. Watch how he reacts every time Marvin makes a good play.

And what do you mean “in the end it will be about Josh getting his numbers”? Do you even know what an assist is? Josh is averaging nearly 4 assists per game. An assist is an attempt to give a teammate the ball in a good position with the intent of that teammate getting a good chance to score. It’s a symbol and intention of trust. It’s a symbol of team play. Josh is a team player. What games have you been watching, kid?

By Nookah

February 7, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

I guess Jo Bling “posted” himself on the wrong side of us bloggers. I share the sentiment of those who have responded to him so I need not comment any further. One thing we must still respect is his opinion. We certainly do not agree but that’s life!!

Sekou, I am also upset at the way our teams are treated by our own residents. It’s ridiculous. They are always cheering for the visiting teams. However, only winning and doing so consistently will change that. A large number of them are “waggonists” anyway. They’ll cheer for whomever is winning. So much for their loyalty.

Smoove and Horford are beasts and don’t knock Marvin he will continue to get better. All we need is that shooter and inside presence to take some pressure off our young guys.

Come on BK, I said it yesterday and I’ll say it again….do that deal…fill our needs and we’ll make some serious noise in the playoffs.

Nuff respect!!!

By Mike

February 7, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Guys I wouldn’t waste much breathe on the cat Jo Bling. With as much crow as Smoove has shoved in his mouth it will take a stick of dynamite to clear his throat.

Sekou on the subject of fan base, as a life long ATL fan, what happen last night doesn’t surprise me? You got a news media that ridicule and dogg all the sports franchise except the Braves. Unless you’re reading Sekou news article there is absolutely nothing positive being said about this team, except for Sports South. Nobody believes this team is for real. I love when fans from other team show and there team loose.

It’s just a simple testament of human nature. Everybody wants to be associated with a winner. The funny thing is that most of the people that show up to cheer for the other team are not even from that city. It also a testament to the vibrant economy of the ATL. Isn’t that why you are here? They may hate the sport franchise, but they love the city.

Just like the Braves and Falcon, this young Hawks team will win this city over.

By new jersey faithful

February 7, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

BEAT THE CAVS!!!!!!!!!

By randy

February 7, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Josh Smith has bad decision-making. I have seen him find Horford or Chills or Joe cutting to the basket for an easy assist just about every night. He did take bad shots earlier in the season, but realized it was affecting the teams performance and cut down on jump-shots/3’s. If there has been on bright spot on the Hawks for past 3 years, it is watching this guy develop. Hopefully, we will re sign him and continue to watch him improve.

By ray

February 7, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

On Josh Smith: I don’t know whether to be proud or very scared. Josh Smith is finally getting some of the recognition that he deserves. Problem is, those in the know and with the ability to do things have already seen this, well before any blogger I’m sure. And while articles like the one in HoopsHype.com illustrate this fairly well, you have to wonder just how much salivating is being done on other teams when Smith’s name is brought up. We could actually lose this guy, you know. I have maintained that either we build around Smith or we make damn sure we get something really good in return for him if we let him get away. Since money has always seemed to be a problem here, my fear has been that he’ll be let go somehow. Hence the statements about trade value and what not. I do not want to see a repeat of what happened when Al Harrington left town. We couldn’t survive another deal like that (getting just about nothing good in return) with the departure of an even more talented and dynamic player. I’m still worried about this…

For all those who continually think we just need to become a carbon copy of the Phoenix Suns: there’s a whole host of articles on this site that should open your eyes. Many of them have key quotes from Mike D’Antoni and Steve Kerr. D’Antoni talks about how having a guy like Shaq gives them a better chance at winning it all. Notice no one seems at all worried about losing Shawn Marion (especially with Grant Hill around). Think real hard about what that should be telling you: Phoenix has and has had the NBA’s greatest running system, but still recognized the need to have a dominant big man. Such a type of player is also necessary when forced into a half-court system.

Doc, you said it best: can’t worry about a partner when you can’t get to the dance. Moves have to be made, and they have to be the right ones, addressing the needs we have. The homers need to stop lying to themselves…

One other thing: Western teams are panicking. We should be taking advantage of this instead of combing our afro and saying “Well, that’s out West. Here in the east, things are watered down enough for us to make the playoffs and keep our jobs for a minute or two longer.” Dammit we should be after guys like Mike Miller. Memphis could use some help down low. Pachulia and Sheldon Williams are both upgrades and will likely be more consistent than Milicic or the non-existent Jason Collins. Not to mention both of our guys are starved for minutes and would be cheaper in the short and long-term for a rebuilding Memphis squad. We could throw in someone else to make it right. We’re trying to get to the playoffs and get better, they’re trying to rebuild. Does it make sense at all? After all, they’re not going to keep Kwame Brown. He was the expiring contract they wanted, and they could have the same production for cheaper.

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Hey Ray, I’m no kid. Wish I were. I hear what you are saying. I’ve also said many times I believe Josh is the best shot-blocker in the league. In fact, he’s a defensive force. It’s on the offensive end where I think he hurts the team. I can also point you to evaluations of Josh by opposing NBA scouts that are none too flattering. But that’s so much water under the bridge. I realize that raising questions on this board about Josh Smith as a total package is going to result in a gang tackle - especially from the yahoos who either haven’t read what I’ve written or don’t know the first thing about player-talent evaluation. I can handle it.

Unfortunately, the banter here has forced me into extending my criticism of a player I actually really like. I really do like Josh Smith. I used to watch him in high school at McEachern and was amazed. I’m a huge Hawks fan, and he’s part of the Hawks. I’m just not sure he’s the right fit for this team. Face it folks - your “All-Star” is “leading” a sub-.500 team that’s 22nd in the league in scoring. Get my point?

One last point: one of you jokers above needs to learn how to read. I said Tyronn Lue was one of my favorite players. How in the world did you take that statement and turn it into my endorsing him for league MVP? I like Lue because he’s tough as nails, and he wants the rock in the fourth quarter. That’s when he comes alive. I love players like that. Doesn’t mean I think he’s MVP of anything. Come on, man, either have a reasonable discussion or go somewhere else.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

“You got a news media that ridicule and dogg all the sports franchise except the Braves.”

Even the Braves suffer from the same thing. Have you ever been to a game at Turner Field when they are playing the Red Sox or the Cubs? It’s even worse than yesterday’s game. The problem is Atlanta sports fans in general. I have lived here my whole life, and as far as I can tell the only thing that holds Atlanta fans’ loyalty is UGA football. Atlanta is a giant bandwagon.

By Big John

February 7, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

This is for Randy whio posted first,I’m a long time Hawks fan and I remeber when people used to say Nique was always out of control and a bad decision maker. Josh is the real deal,this team is only 1 or 2 pieces from being a serious contender.Gooooooo Hawks!!!!

By Maurice

February 7, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Man, you all dogged Jo Bling! I was gonna say something too but he got lit like a fire in a fire-cracker factory! Get er done! Lol! I will say this though, take JS out of the games that we won…his points, his blocked shots, his assists, his steals and his energy. What do you have?

The Miami Heat.

By Maurice

February 7, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Man, you all dogged Jo Bling! I was gonna say something too but he got lit like a fire in a fire-cracker factory! Get er done! Lol! I will say this though, take JS out of the games that we won…his points, his blocked shots, his assists, his steals and his energy. What do you have?

The Miami Heat. and last years Hawks

By Joshua Bagriansky

February 7, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

For those of you whining about Smith’s shot selection, check out his game log. He has been shooting the ball very well since mid December. When you read Smith complaints, it is very easy to spot who is actually watching the games.

Smith has problems, but shooting % has not been one of them. What you meant to say is he needs to become a less streaky rebounder, a better man defender, and keep his head in check. But of course that would require a lot of you to actually watch a lot of Hawks games.

By ray

February 7, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling, actually as you probably know, our “all-star” is Joe Johnson. And he’s the team leader, captain, whatever you wish to call it. And he’s leading a sub-.500 team. We were supposed to be building around him, but it has not happened because it has been incorrectly done.

As for Josh, I suppose we’ll have to disagree. The fact that a guy like him coming straight from high school without solid basic skills…can produce like this…and still have a lot of room to grow…I fail to see your point. I definitely disagree with your assessment of him as a team player. He is unselfish. While he may take more shots than some people think he should, who else is providing the scoring? Marvin? Please….Marvin has a hard time consistently going to the basket and almost won’t shoot a jumper unless he’s wide open. When he does go to the basket, he doesn’t finish much in traffic. Josh at least is consistently motivated and fired up. 18ppg, and he’s no shooter. Marvin is touted as one, but lacks the necessary drive to be a consistently effective one. That’s what frustrates me about Marvin.

Josh didn’t have the skills, but he’s developing them. On top of that, he’s providing the kinds of things you expect from a dominant center or power forward. How many times is he going to save our porous defense with another high-flying, spectacular block? Yeah, he’s a weak-side shot-blocker, but why is he getting all these swats? Simple: because he defends his man, then rotates out of nowhere to defend somebody else’s man…like Marvin’s…ahem.

By Maurice

February 7, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling. Josh Smith isn’t leading a sub .500 team that’s 22 in the league in scoring. Mike Woodson is leading the team that is 22 in the league in scoring. As a coach you should realize and accept the fact that wins and losses are the coaches responsibility. Yes the players are the ones out on the court and yes it ultimately is the players responsibility to execute. He isn’t the only one on the team. To say he doesn’t fit in the mix with the Hawks is idiotic. I’ve seen what you see. That sometimes it doesn’t seem like JS and JJ get along. They have a job to do and it’s the coaches responsibility to get them to mesh. Check Kobe and Shaq. Not that JS is equal to either of those 2 talents but look at what great coaching did for the Lakers. It’s Woodsons job to get his team to mesh. He is the link between the players. You may not like or get along with everyone you work with but you all play to your strengths. Shouldn’t Woodson be able to do that? I’ve seen nights were JS and JJ aren’t doing anything well with the ball, but the ball keeps going to them. Coaching. I’ve seen Marvin look like a beast for the first three quarters and not get the ball in the fourth. Coaching. Need I say more? What ever your miss givings are about Josh Smith not being able to fit in the mix with the Hawks team are your own. My last bit of wisdom to you is to get your slew of professionals together with that gentleman who said Josh Smith will be a Bust, and form your own team!

By ray

February 7, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

That’s another thing. Marvin is shooting only 2.7% better than Josh. And Marvin is the shooter? Look, I like the guy but this is what I see: Josh takes more shots. He will shoot in all four quarters. Marvin shoots much less in the 4th quarter, and won’t shoot much at all when the shot isn’t an open one. And he only shoots one jumper: midrange. Josh will shoot from anywhere, as will Childress. Both have more attempts and more completions from 3-point range despite having nowhere near Marvin’s shooting stroke. He’s attempted 1-6 from beyond the arc. That’s 16.7% Smith has gone 14-62 for 22.6%, and Chill has gone 7-26 for 26.9%. Does that make either of the Joshes shooters or 3-point shooters? No. But it damn sure makes Marvin NOT look like the shooter people keep claiming he is. Hence the many one-dimensional comments people keep making about him.

Marvin needs to expand his range, finish at the basket, and quit avoiding contested shots/traffic. Take a page from JJ, who probably has not shot one uncontested shot from inside 30+ feet. No seriously, the only uncontested shots this cat gets are from either well beyond the arc, or when no less than two opposing team’s defenders have completely blown their assignment. Seriously.

By SSI Fan

February 7, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Every player on the Hawks team should be available in the right trade, even Josh Smith who is idolized by so many on this blog. The strengths of the players on the Hawks do not complement each other. They have some good players but the team, as presently constructed, can hope for no more than a 7th or 8th playoff position. They do not have enough size or outside shooting to be any better.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

February 7, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

A couple of things:

24,34,44,934 years of coaching, watching basketball, etc are still based on subjective criteria. How long have BK and Woody been involved with bball?- exactly

It’s not even an arguement for Smoov vs Duck, that one’s been decided.

Ken Strickland- I mean Jo Bling- interesting, I thought alter ego’s expressed different opinions than their regular selves….. Duck, Duck, GOOSE!

RISE UP!

By reese

February 7, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Ray and MyKhalc, I went back and read some of the older blogs, thanks for the shout out.

Its good to see that people are starting to understand Josh Smith’s attributes and are patient with his mistakes. Besides, any star player who plays with intensity is going to make mistakes. Steve Nash had 10 turnovers last night.

Currently, Marvin is a role player. His role is to take and make the outside shot. Now, its time for him to increase his role.

Childress is a player that I flip flop on. We won when he was out, he is slow when running down court to stop a offensive player, he has stopped trying to take outside shots, he is weak and fumbles the ball too much. However, he seems to get a key offensive rebound and put back at some point in the game. He is a Robert Horry type player on a small scale. You keep him, but don’t pay him too much.

By mykhalc

February 7, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, excellent point about how much ALL JJ’s shots are contested!! an easy thing to overlook when we criticize him at times!!

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Joshua - No, that wasn’t what I meant to say. In fact, I think I’ll stick to saying what I mean to say. I think Josh is a pretty decent man defender, even though he overplays and always has his eye somewhere else, waiting for his chance to get airborne. I think he’s terrible in transition and in shot selection. And you say he’s been shooting great since December? Terrific! What’s our record been since December? You might want to watch a game or two as well.

Ray - I certainly have to agree with your points. In fact, I think in a way you are actually making my point. I totally agree Joe Johnson is supposed to be the star of this team - not Josh Smith. They are paying Joe Johnson to be the leader, not Josh Smith. And yet, everyone here seems to think Josh Smith is king daddy Atlanta Hawk. You are so right that it has been incorrectly done, and that’s why Josh Smith and the role he plays is a problem.

As for Marvin, I’m with you all the way. He needs to start showing us something more, and pretty quickly. Last night’s performance was as bad as I’ve seen him in a long time. He looked completely lost. Not a good sign.

SSI Fan - Exactly. Apparently there are going to be a lot of people on this board freaking out when Josh Smith gets traded. But maybe they will start to understand if we can use him to find the right piece(s) to get this team where it needs to be. Joe Johnson is a warhorse that we can ride to a championship, but he needs the right lineup around him.

By DSLIM

February 7, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

is salim done for the season? I HATE WOODSON> he sucks

By reese

February 7, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Najeh Davenpoop, yes the hawks need to send AC Law to the DLeague. Send Solomon and Shelden with them.

I remember last year when the Lakers sent Jordan Farmer to the Dleague, he played a Dleague game and a laker game in the same day.

I just don’t see the benefit of jerking him in and out of the rotation.

Maybe we need to start a money collection so that the spirit can afford the bus fare or plane ride to the Dleague affiliate.

By I.MUS WRITE

February 7, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

My God why is Joe Bling’s man crush on T lue the topic of discussion……Rediculous

RAY-Good info on Chillz vs Marvin, Chills is alot more effective and does the dirty work for our team- Luv the way he plays. I honestly would trade Marvin before I would Chills.

Where are all of the Gasol supporters now? Trading Smoove for Gasol would have been a dumb azz move. If you watched the game last night its obvious he isnt the banger we needed to pair up with horford.

Gasol is so Euro- Yeah he gets points on the blocks but we need Defense and Rebounding from any 7 footer we bring in.

JS- If you watch the guy like i do you can see how much he’s impoved since last season…… His passing is getting better as the season goes along especially in the half court (Philly Game) When it all comes togetha he’s gonna be scary.

High School? High School?? Come on- How you gonna compare some AAU players to the best in the world. so again I say High Scool………………………. Howz about u take your experience cash it in and pay for the league pass, so you can be a little more informed when you post here….. These guyz n gurlz are cut throat …… cash it in my man

By doc

February 7, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

jo, good stuff man and it is fun to agree to disagree until you finally come around to the truth. heh heh.

look, two passes that have opened my eyes on josh was the behind the back dump to chills the other night for a easy basket from the baseline and the one where he was way out above the key and threaded a bullet to chills, i think, cutting into the lane late. awesome and only a figment of my imagination for what he could become last year when he couldnt even put it on the floor without losing it.

dude, he is becoming a force to contend with and making the other guys better. that is star force whether it is on offense, getting assists or back-up on defense. i assure you if we dont appreciate him his teammates do and other teams will stand in line to show it soon. watch.

in comparison, marvin’s game is so one dimensional it is frightening and i like the guy a lot and expected it and said so. he has no range and i become suspect of the other teams lack of respect when they dare him to make his little jump shot uncontested that he missed so often last night and many nights before. what do the scouting reports say about him because other teams rarely close the distance on him as he shoots and figure he is not coming to the basket anyway for the bound so why put a body on him? it is not like he uses his quickness to get open or off ball movement around screens nor closes after shots for bounds. geez

By mykhalc

February 7, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

also…i was REALLY impressed with JJ’s game last nite. he took his game to KOBE. backed him down religiously…smart and effective ball, no doubt!!!

REESE, you deserved the props bro. NOBODY came as hard as you did in supportin’ SMOOVE at the beginnin’ of the season!! and i know you and i differed on some things at the start but i am stoked to see the cat step up and improve his all-around game as much as he has in a half a season.

i hope he gets his payday from the ASG!! and i hope he works on makin’ his jumper more consistent this summer like he worked on other parts of his game last summer. i think we are just now beginnin’ to see him get comfortable in game situations with the things he worked on this past summer with DREAM!! and again, gotta give you props ‘cause that was ONE of the things you posted about early!!!

big as basketballs huh????LOL

By berserk

February 7, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

trade for mike miller and one of their PGs and throw in marvin and any of the guys with expiring contracts or who just sit on the bench all day anyway

that would be great!!

and get a decent coach

By doc

February 7, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

reese, i prefer the grapefruit league myself if you know what i mean. glad you had fun while we held the fort down.

ray, good stuff man. cudos as usual.

interesting occurrence last night on the brave blog. chipper came out as u kno who and really was cool to it all. if anyone has any interest in the bravos it is worth a look.

mike glad you are back in the fold man.

where is stretch strickland? luv ya, mean it.

nice to know the ninja honest abe hasnt lost his touch as an agitator recently. seems like he must be a legit working stiff these days. god luv him for it. surprising in that he is a uga grad. maybe he is all hot and bothered reading about teen age boys and the recent signings day. pedophilia at its best.

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Only time will tell on this pretty insignificant debate. But for what it’s worth, I do think there’s a better-than-average chance JS will get traded. His stock is pretty high right now, and I’ve already stated all the reasons I think it would be a good move. If he stays, and he can take us to the playoffs and maybe even win a series, then I’ll sure as hell be a believer. In the end I’m just a Hawks fan. Whatever works.

Tuning out for now …

By Stinger

February 7, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling I also have my concerns about JS - I’ve refered to his touch as hands of stone BUT I’m very slow to think of him as trade bait. He is becoming critical to maintaining the teams energy level. There were rumors last year that the hawks and raps were talking about a Calderon / JS swap. Calderon is the decision maker that JS isn’t but JS bring an energy to the game that is nearly unique in the league.

Thus while I lust after Calderon I would not offer JS in exchange. However I would give up Marvin or Chills plus an existing pg in a heart beat.

Last thing teams Hawks fans need to remember id that this team (and almost any team) can only afford 3 max contract players. Who are the 3 you would choose long term? I’d go with Horford #1, JS #2 and JJ#3 but I would rather let JJ go at the end of his current contract and have the 3rd max or near max contract be used on an Allstar level PG.

Again the reality check is that there is a salary cap and our ownership group (and in truth almost every ownership group) is going to be hesitant to go into luxury tax land) so by the time the hawks reach their potential (2 or 3 years) this team CANNOT EXIST as presently constituted. Choose your keepers carefully.

Add me to the group that believes Kidd could push this team deep into the eastern conference playoffs and possibly to the championship next year - Even Woodson wouldn’t be able to slow our wings do with Kidd at the point. Plus his contract expires after to year allowing us to keepr our core players long term - too bad our pitiful owners won’t allow this to happen.

By xldoug

February 7, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling: No…you said T-Lue is “amazing”- What exactly does that mean, if inserted in a running critique on JS, if it doesn’t have any comparative context? And what is your favorite part relative to T-Lue? His inability to guard…his total inability to create a shot for a teammate…his slowing the game to a crawl so he can dribble the clock down…which is it? Yes he can shoot it still and has the guts to take that shot deep in the game. So he has a role and at times a valuable role….but “amazing” to describe T-Lue is beyond dumb.
There is so much to argue with in your posts it is hard to know where to begin. Your experienced and expert analysis will look like clueless drivel in a year…actually it looks like that now…I mean a guy who can impact the game…actually change a game on the glass…through blocked shots and/or steals…by getting shots for his teammates…AND by scoring is described as a talented athlete but a “terrible” decision maker…while the venerable T-Lue is simply amazing…well credibility is forever vanquished…and can I please schedule your team if you still coach???

By Sautee

February 7, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

OK I’ve got to chime in on the JS thing.Jo Bling, you’re first post today (11:09)said “he is a terrible decision-maker, and pretty much a maverick whose style of play doesn’t fit well within a team concept”. And yet his last two games he had 9 assists in each. Imagine how many he would have if he made good decisions and weren’t such a maverick!!! You also said (12:13) “I’ve already posted on one of Sekou’s prior blogs some of the opinions of Josh Smith as seen by other teams’ scouts. These guys are paid to evaluate talent, and they don’t like what they see in Josh Smith - at all”. Then at 3:33 you say “His stock is pretty high right now”. HUH? Which is it? First, you bow to the scouts poor opinions and now his stock is pretty high? Just keep it real. There are holes in Smoove’s game but given his rate of improvement and the fact that he’s just turned 22, I wouldn’t trade him unless I got the moon and the stars.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

As ridiculous as Jo Bling’s comment was, I think you have to make a distinction between his “favorite player” and someone who he thinks is actually good. For example, Peja Drobnjak used to be one of my favorite players when he was on the Hawks, but that’s because he was so horrendously awful, not because he was good. At least I hope that’s what Jo Bling meant. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

Sautee -

Those comments from scouts were pre-season. He’s playing as well as he’s ever played right now, especially on defense. That’s why his stock is high. Look, he may be a superstar on some other team. I’ve never said he’s not a great athlete with terrific skills. He plays hard. I just think he’s got major flaws and I don’t think he’s a good fit for this TEAM. What’s so hard to understand about that? And why does it generate such absurd defensiveness? It’s like I was criticizing you a*-clowns personally, or something. Get over it. Maybe it’s because you know there’s more than a grain of truth in what I’m saying.

By Jo Bling

February 7, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Najeh - I appreciate it, but xldoug doesn’t deserve your trying to assist him in reading comprehension 101. What a fool.

By mykhalc

February 7, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

*Jo Bling *, always better to be in the NOW!!!!! that’s where the GM’s would be/are judgin’ him from…right in the here and now!!!

By I.MUS WRITE

February 7, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling for president man!!! This is getting stale…..NEXT!!!

By kwooden1

February 7, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

In the few games I’ve watched (I’m in DC), I agree with what everyone is saying about Marvin, but I’m definitely not ready to trade him away. (especially with how this organization does with trades!) My opinion about Marvin is he’s still thinking about what he’s doing on the court and still developing a nasty side to his game. He needs to go to the hole everytime with the intent to be on the ESPN highlight reel. He has to stop thinking about getting open and run to get open. I also think he’s still growing and getting use to his own body. I see him jump higher and faster than he anticipates sometimes, which messes up some of his finishes. I agree that he’s not going to be an All-Star in his career, but I also think he’s a guy that is getting better and better each season. Not everyone is Lebron, some guys take time. Give Marvin his time, we all saw how he can play in the Seattle game (I listened on the radio) Remember with Al getting 20, and JS getting 9, there weren’t many rebounds available for Marvin. Also, a lot of guys his size can’t play defensive, give him time to improve in that area also.

In terms of the team, I believe the core of JJ, JS, Al and Marvin are special enough with the right the components they could win a Championship one day. They all have to improve in their own ways, and obviously some more than others, but combined they bring things to the table that other teams can’t: Josh Smith, enough said!! (the only comparison is AK-47, but he can’t finish like Josh, ask Turiaf!); JJ, unguardable (especially if his three is falling); Al, beast!! enough said; Marvin, super-athlete! The one to trade is Chills, I hate to see the guy go, but he will get the most in trade value and hopefully Marvin will reach his potential.

What I’ve said is all fantasy and as for this year….

GUYS get yourselves to the PLAYOFFS!! (don’t expect any help from the organization or the coach during the game)

GO HAWKS!

By ILL-logical

February 7, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Mr. Bling:

You have expressed your opinion,repeatedly if not inconsistantly, about JSmooth. It has been addressed and rebutted with facts/ statistics. You have a right to your opinion and the expression thereof,HOWEVER you should also note that opinions are simular to certain anatomical features and often posses malodorous properities. Check yourself.

By cp

February 7, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Is Joe Bling a fan from another team hoping this cheap spirit group trades him to his team?. We had a lengthy and great discussion about Marvin maybe 2 weeks ago. I like the kid but I just dont see it in him. After his great game in from of his moms he has went back to the same old Marvin. I just dont see how a guy who is 6’9 with that type of athelticism and length can be such a poor rebounder and defender. If this guy jumpshot is off then his time on the court that game is pretty much non existent because he does nothing else. I would probably take Travis Outlaw and Mike Miller for Marvin right now because they both do things Marvin cant. They can hit the 3 and creat their own shots. Imus I saw your comment about Delonte West. I knew I was not the only person who felt like this guy could really help this team. He can play the 1 and some 2. He is a good defender , can create his own shot, and hit the 3. He is not getting any pt in Seattle and would probably be cheap to aquire. BK what are you waiting on. Get this guy here. I see a few more guys on our the Gerald Green and JR Smith bandwagon too. Too bad BK wont even pick up the phone to see what it would take to get these guys and right now I would believe it would not cost much.

By gutz

February 7, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

I will tell you one thing. If the Hawks do not RESIGN Josh Smith this offseason I will NEVER go to another game as long as this ownership is in place. Smoove is going to be a VERY special player in this league for YEARS to come. Sky is the limit for him and we BETTER resign him or ASG will lose any remaining fans the Hawks have including me.

By smartguy

February 7, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

“Jo Bling” is Michael Gearon’s SN. He must work for the Hawks. To be that wrong, inconsistent, and with so many contradictory statements, he must be an employee of the ASG. Jo, there are so many contradictory statements in your posts that you don’t know which way is up. To try and pick you apart is apparently a feeble effort. Enjoy life in semi-reality, and change your SN if you ever want any respect around here again.

On a positive note, I hope Smooth is noticing all the love we have for him. Keep it up #5!

By kwooden1

February 7, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling, explain your opinion that JS is not a good fit (bad chemistry) for this team? He makes bad decisions and doesn’t have a great shot, but that doesn’t make him a bad fit for the team. Rasheed Wallace gets useless technicals and takes to many threes, instead of posting up, but does anyone say he’s a bad fit for Detroit. (take the good with the bad) We all see the faults in JS game, but the potential is off the charts! Even if he didn’t get any better, but just stopped the turnovers (like last night) he still is a player that everyone would take on their team. As much basketball as you’ve played you know that everyone likes playing with a shot blocker. In terms of chemistry are you saying that since he’s not a true SF he doesn’t fit a team with JJ (SG) and Horford (PF), I would disagree, that is what makes him special. Teams have a problem with matching up with him. You saw what he did to Turiaf, PF’s can’t cover him, and he can postup most SF. Your not going to win in a championship in this league with a traditional line-up, because your not going to find a center better than Duncan, a PG quicker than Parker, etc. As a team your going to have to find a player that is special at his position that a team like the Spurs or Detriot can’t match up with. (Lebron for example) Our special player is JS, lets all hope that he keeps getting better, its obvious that he wants to.

Explain?

By ray

February 7, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling, to tell you the truth…your idea of Smith getting traded is not a new concept or even new debatable topic here. Ando, a few others, and myself brought this up as a strong possibility before the season started, and even early into it. We talked about how he has the highest trade value on the team. We discussed how much we like Smith, but don’t want to see the organization not pay him…and then lose him for nothing. I have chimed in loudly with some others about what we need to get if management decides to let him go elsewhere. And then Reese and I argued about it for days. Welcome to the party.

Reese, like Myk said, you deserved the shout out. Nothing weak about your game.

Mykhalc, thanks my man. I’m with you on both wagons: Woodson’s gotta go, and Marvin’s gotta add a dimension or two. Any minute now, Ken will get on my case for saying that…lol!

By cob

February 7, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

The ideal of the Josh/Al frontcourt was on full display last night. On D, Josh’s athleticism and instincts scared the hell out of the Lakers and Al was great at cleaning up all those misses and getting the ball to the right guy. On offense, we finally saw how Al can be really effective while his one on one game develops… he just has to move in space and take advantage of the doubles that Josh has started to draw. Al has such great hands and is such a great finisher that once the double comes you can just throw it at him and he’ll go up for a dunk or get fouled. Get a point guard with some range who could throw an entry pass and we could have a nice little offense in the half court (although its pretty obvioust that the Hawks would be absolutely devastating running the break with Dre Miller).

Jo, I respect your knowledge and expertise but I think you are letting some sort of bias creep into your analysis. The fact is that the Hawks play better with Josh on the floor, its backed up by the +/- stats and the W/L column from last season. He is easily the most competitive player we have had here in a long time, which is part of the reason he is so exciting, he wants to bring it on every play. I don’t know what scouts you talk to because his presence on D is the reason we don’t have a 48 minute layup line.

By MannyT

February 7, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

For all the talk about needing additional pieces for this season’s playoff run, there are 2 things that make it messy.

1. If we had done more running in the first half of the season, we would have a better idea of who contributes least to the running game. That would highlight who should be available. While it is easy to point at the guys that get little or not PT, would they be good contributors if we really committed to the up tempo game?

2. Are the available players a good fit for what we need to do (run) or will they muddy the coaching waters even more? If we get a big man or a shooter that plods along, will we run even less as we have to prove the value of a new player?

PS—For whatever y’all say about Chills, now that he seems to be over his foot problems, the dude does a great job of contributing with his primary skills. No need to run plays for him, just let him run around and pick up hustle baskets.

By cob

February 7, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

… oh, and as clutch as Ty Lue is (he is, I loved it), we really need a point guard who can start the offense with more than 10 seconds left on the shot clock. Its a good thing he can hit those tough shots every once in a while because there are no easy shots when that guy is in the game.

By preston

February 7, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Jo-bling sorry to keep pouring it on you, but you are definitely in the minority on Josh Smith, even though I will admit that were those who voiced similar sentiments as yours earlier in the season. I totally disagree with your comments about Smith not fitting in with this team……infact I say that he fits perfectly with this team because for starters he gives you soo much more than he should…..your top scorers should be JJ, MV, and AJ……J-Smoove’s greatest impact should be on the defensive side of the board, but the fact that he is able to score in bunches and leads his team is scoring on some night’s, and get his other team mates involved is (using your words) AMAZING. How many other players can flirt with triple doubles in as diverse a manner as Smith? Yes….J-Smoove is a gifted athelete as you say, but he is developing into a very good basketball player, and I would never give up, trade or devalue someone that has improve steadily and drastically as him. Let’s look at M.Williams, who’s scoring has increased steadily with each passing year that he has played…….but I can’t say, nor do I see where M.Williams game has gotten better, as odd as that may sound……..but I can say that J-Smoove has gotten better, and he has impacted more games, and has made more of a presence in more games than Williams, as well as any other Hawk……..he is fast becomming the MVP of this team, and we definitely need for him to stay.

By Ken Strickland

February 7, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

I recently posted a comment stating how I didn’t like getting into trade speculations. However, I just read an article that got me thinking. The article was about the repercussions out west of the Shaq trade. Specifically, I focused on a comment about the Mavericks’ continued efforts to acquire JKidd. If they’re successful, what affect would his acquisition have on JTerry.

The reason that intrigued me is the fact JTerry is exactly what the Hawks need in one package. He’s quick, fast, plays hard and always with an attitude. He plays PG and can definitely shoot, especially from 3pt range. Also, getting him would allow us to start JChildress. Childress would give us better DEF, rebounding, inside play, ball handling, and passing, as well as a point forward(like SPippin or PPressey). Marvin would come off the bench to play SG/SF and do what he does best, shoot that midrange jumper.

One thing’s for certain, there would be no more double teaming JJ with Terry on the court. We really need a win against Cleveland. We need to head out west with momentum, confidence and a positive winning attitude. GOOD LUCK AGAIN TO OUR HIGH FLYING FAST RUNNING HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

By Jeff

February 7, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

Has Shelden Williams fallen totally out of favor and if so, why?

By mykhalc

February 7, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

since we are talkin’ about JS a lot in this blog i’ll add just a tad more.

the brokea$$ ASG should/have to/probably do realize that SMOOVE is the new ‘NIQUE!!! and before some get all worked up pls hear me out.

from a crowd favorite, hometown, home-grown standpoint he is the cat that people really want to see…IMHO!!! i think because JJ is sort of a ‘quiet’ fire he does not draw the crowd intensity/passion that SMOOVE gets!!!! even the adjectives that we use regardin’ both on the blog gets 2 different kinds of descriptions and energy behind them!!! we all wait to see what SMOOVE will do next, good or bad!!!LOL and there is a LOT less bad goin’ on regardin’ his play these days compared to the start of the season, no doubt!!!

from a franchise standpoint the ASG has exactly what any franchise would want…a player that brings excitement, gets the fan base excited (i know, ATL fan base and excited are mutually exclusive) and talkin’, and one with star potential!!!

think about this one for a sec. as a fan and hoops person, which team would you enjoy the most…a team like the MAVs or the HAWKS???? as much as i wanna win, watchin’ a team like the MAVs nitely would not interest me. now of course i say that not bein’ a MAV’s fan but i’ll watch GS ‘cause of their play, PHO ‘cause of their play, UTAH, DET, and a few other teams that i’m not a diehard fan of. but they have ‘something’ about their team that makes them enjoyable to watch.

so all of that to say, the ASG are positioned nicely from a ‘NIQUE/crowd favorite perspective’ if they can afford to take advantage of their situation. they’ve got a great core of JJ, JS, and AH. the question is can they build around them effectively within the constraints of their budget and with some haste???

if i were them, i don’t know how i could think about not signin’ SMOOVE longterm given all that makes sense from a marketin’ and pure hoops standpoint…given his flaws and all.

in finishin’, CHILS vs MARVIN??? unless i get a good trade situation now, i would probably sign CHILS and address the choice as MARVIN comes up for his new contract. if i get a chance to get a MIKE MILLER now, then i part with MW knowin’ what CHILS brings me without gettin’ ONE play called for him and with no ‘known’ ego that makes him demand to start…ultimate team player!!!

anyway, that’s my brokea$$ ASG perspective for today!!! i know you’ll feel free to object!!LOL

By ray

February 7, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

Ken, interesting idea. I don’t know that Dallas would go for it. The reason I say that is because it isn’t Terry’s pg skills that make him so valuable there. It’s his shooting/scoring skills. They have Devin Harris to perform the pg duties. The statistics put up by both players seems to go in that direction as well.

So it would seem that the acquisition of Kidd is really going to affect Harris more than it would Terry. Terry is simply less a facilitator than Harris, and more of a scorer/shooter than Harris. In fact, because of Harris, Terry is allowed to play more to his strengths. And to be honest, I’d be glad to have Devin Harris. Not that I wouldn’t be glad to have Jason Terry, too. I just think getting Harris is more realistic. After all, Harris has started 39 games this season. He’s not going to want to take a back seat to Kidd, which is exactly what would happen. And he’s the deadly penetrator with shooting ability (over %48 on field goals) that we could really use. And trust me, even Woodson couldn’t keep this guy from driving to the basket.

By ray

February 7, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Doc, thanks for the kudos, as always. You deserve them for coming as strong and smooth as you have, especially lately.

Mykhalc, very nicely put ol’ friend. Very nicely indeed.

Ken, one other question. Who are you expecting to give up for Terry? I notice you mention Childress and Marvin’s roles in relation to Terry (assuming he would/could be acquired). So that really begs the question of who you would expect Dallas to take in return. And that calls for the comment that no team, particularly Dallas, should be expected to take junk for that which is good. After all, if Dallas is to lose a good, solid reliable scorer/shooter, what need would they be looking to fill and how are they to replace what they’re losing? Kidd can no doubt score, but he’s not the consistent outside threat that Terry is. Again, not wanting to argue…but doesn’t letting Harris go make more sense for Dallas?

By ray

February 7, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

Again, that’s assuming that Dallas can get Kidd. And oddly enough, if they can, that certainly means they’re giving up something substantial for him. Which might mean Harris or Terry. Which means they might not have anything we can really use…which means we don’t have a deal at all. Sorry to rain on that parade, but it’s possible that this is how it works out.

I’m with Myk…let’s go after Mike Miller. Although I wouldn’t ignore trying to get after Harris or Terry if Dallas acquires Kidd and still retains the service of either player. Of course, if they do, then they’ve given up someone like Josh Howard, which doesn’t make sense, because they have Jefferson and Carter, both of which can play the same position Howard can play, and none of the three are power forwards (which Jersey doesn’t need right now).

I guess that kind of settles it: if Jersey sends Kidd to Dallas, chances are they’re getting Terry or Harris…and possibly both..as long as Dallas gets another player as filler.

Yeah, we might be better advised to keep our eyes (and options)open, but our sights on a guy that can actually possibly be had…like Mike Miller.

By mykhalc

February 7, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

thanks BIG RAY. i had one RAY-type post in me today and somehow got it out and posted!!!LOL

By Ken Strickland

February 7, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

RAY-If Dallas acquires Kidd and intends to keep him, they’ll have to sign him to big contract. I don’t know for certain, but they are surely near the CAP if not over it. They’d be a perfect team to unload some of our expiring contracts and would probably love to have them. We could also send them one of our guards, either Salim, AJ or Lue. Salim would be the obvious choice since Woodson obviously doesn’t want him on the team.

Dumping Terry’s contract, along with our expiring contracts, would allow them to sign Kidd without hurting their salary structure. Getting rid of our expiring contracts would allow us to absorb Terry’s contract without affecting our salary structure. It would be a win win transaction.

But RAY, I’m with you on the DHarris thing. Either way, we get what we need most.

By Melvin

February 7, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling, please go to hoopshype.com and read the article on Josh Smith written by Marc Narducci (76’s beat writer). That would give you some insight on what others around the league thinks about him. Others as in players and coaches. who cares about scouts opinions…

By rainman

February 7, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

I would like for any of you guys that have seen this guy play tell me a little about him. Kanil dickens might have miss spelled his name but this cat looks like what we need. AVgs 21 pts he is 6,8 and shoots 7.5 threes a game and hits 46% of them. we could use this much more then that bum west.

By Darrin "The Vent King"

February 7, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

It is sad what being a transient city can do your town’s image, but what can you do, everyone just keeps moving down here just to complain about being here. It’s like a sick fad or something. Anyway, I will first say Josh Smith is the biggest unknown athletic wonder in the NBA right now. He is one of the last few dunk contest winners that have actually gone on and continue to be a growing star. Others usually are never heard from again. Having said that and knowing he’s only 22 yrs old (still can’t believe that), Josh Smith NEEDS to get some signature moves on offense. Its like most guys who are stars in this league have something they know they can go to and J-Smoove doesn’t have that YET. He’s got extremely mad hops and can make your mother cry swatting your shot off the court and through one of those tunnels at Philips and hitting some kid up side the head. J-Smoove still needs a consistent go to move or shot or SOMETHING. He can’t jump over satellites forever and as much as I like the guy, sometimes he makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Then I remember what that knucklehead annoucner said about how out of all the high schoolers drafted that year, Josh was going to be the biggest mistake and I start rooting for him again so I’m a hapless homer. Regardless, for Josh to become among the ELITE in this league he will HAVE to have that. Make no mistake, Josh has the atheletic ability to dominate for the next ten years, but so did Derrick Coleman. Coleman once had the “dog” in him that Josh now has, but somewhere down the line he started believing his own press and got washed up quick like. I do not want to see that happen to this hometown “A-town” product. Now as far Big Al Horford aka “BEEEEE-AST” aka “Don Gator Greater” aka “Mr. Packed my Lunch Already and Ready to go to Work” is da man! I will truly know the individual awards in the NBA like rookie of the year are nothing but financial politics if they give it to Durant instead. The Hawks stunk every much as anyone in this league INCLUDING THE SONICS and anything or anyone helping THIS team go to the playoffs not only deserves an award but a medal from Congress! Keep up the hard work fellas and stop drinking forties or whatever it is you do at halftime that gives you guys the “i-tus” (like that stupid Portland game). That ish is driving me nuts!

GO HAWKS!!!

By new jersey faithful

February 7, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Lets see if the Hawks can win one of these two back-backs they play before the allstar break. The Hawks always have trouble winning on the 2nd night when they play on back to back nights. It’ll be a tough task because of the first 3 teams they play, but they could really use a few more wins before the break,at least the last one against the Bobcats.

By JL

February 7, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

I loved Horford as our draft pick. He was “ready” on day one but needed to transition from college to NBA - which he’s done quite well. He’s earned the respect of the veteran players and holds his cool in tough situations. Rookie of the year in my eyes even if no one else agrees.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 7, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

“Has Shelden Williams fallen totally out of favor and if so, why?”

Because he sucks.

Also would like to point out that J-Smoove got some props on Inside the NBA today… I love that show, but they rarely have anything good to say about the Hawks, so this is a pretty big deal.

By JB

February 7, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Jo Bling wrote:

But he is a terrible decision-maker, and pretty much a maverick whose style of play doesn’t fit well within a team concept.

**He HAS been that earlier in the season. But lately, his decision-making appears to me to have improved markedly. There’s still the occasional stinker, but we even get that from Joe.

And don’t you EVER mistake this kid for a selfish, me-first player. Much of our improvement over the course of the year has been due to his willingness to focus on a number of non-glamorous jobs, including rebounding, defense, and garbage man on offense. Consider that he may be the most physically gifted guy on our team, and could have chosen to focus entirely on his early fame as a dunker. In short, you’re DEAD wrong here, my friend.**

I think he’s a real liability on offense because he’s so often out of control, and constantly damaging momentum (often the same momentum he created on the defensive end) with poor shot choices and errant passes.

**Once again, it sounds as if you stopped watching games about the end of November. Regarding his shot choices, he is not afraid to take the shot with the clock winding down. I’ll take that quality.

I agree that he is not as gifted offensively; we have been more successful when we have moved away from using him as the first or second option on offense. And he has had NO problem with that.

Again, where you get the “not a team guy” idea is beyond me.**

I’d be very surprised if he were to find his way onto the All-Star team -ever.

Interesting. I say he makes it within 3 years, if not sooner. Looking forward to seeing which of us is right.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 8, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

Not that it makes any difference, but Josh Smith is the #1 ranked Yahoo Fantasy player for the last week, and #6 for the last month. Just in case anyone was wondering.

By preston

February 8, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

J-smoove also got props from Charles Barkley at halftime during the Rockets/Cavaliers game on TNT………it is becomming increasingly obvious to the league that Smith’s game is developing into an all around solid basketball player, and he has more game than sheer athleticism……….come to think of it, this is probaly why (other than injury), that we haven’t seen Smith in any other Slam Dunk contests…….he probaly wants to show and be known for being a more complete basketball player, and not just a crowd pleasing dunker……that would not only be a sign of maturity,but of a guy that has really dedicated himself to the game……if he is consistent with his current pace of play….then we should definately see him in the All-Star game next yr.

By HB Ando

February 8, 2008 3:26 AM | Link to this

Well now, here’s the catch, Sekou Smith. You’ve simultaneously highlighted both the best and the worst of the Hawks’ roster, by noting, “If there is a better young tandem of frontcourt players anywhere other than Portland than the Hawks have in Josh Smith, Horford and Marvin Williams, I’d love to see them”.

Yet this is exactly what I predicted would be the teams’ achilles’ heal, going into the season. They’re all exciting, gifted players, in their own right; with bright futures in the NBA. But they couldn’t be more mismatched, as a long-term frontline, if the goal of this team is to compete for championships.

People want to talk about the NBA moving to “small ball”. But the Lakers just grabbed a versatile 7-footer to play the four, when Bynum comes back. And Phoenix just blatantly admitted that they cannot come out of the West with Amare playing the 5, no matter how good Nash, Marion and Stoudemire looked on paper.

Is Shaq done? Well, he’s not the same Shaq we’ve watched for the last 15 years. But if he’s motivated (and the multitude of bandwagon jumpers, predicting his demise, is about the best thing that could happen for the Suns), then the Western Conference championship will likely be played between the Lakers and the Suns. Without the acquisitions of Gasol and Shaq, it was far more likely that we were looking at Dallas and San Antonio.

So let’s hear it for Billy Knight, and all the fools who believe that the path to the NBA championship no longer runs through dominant post play.

Sekou asks if there is a better young tandem of front court players than Marvin, Josh and Al, and I shake my head, in despair, and suggest that maybe, just maybe, the front court of Odom, Gasol and Bynum, with some guy named Kobe, at the two, might be a tad more exciting than the Hawks’ combo of 2 small forwards and a PF.

Suddenly the Suns are morons. The fastest offense in the league just gave up one of the most versatile players, at both ends of the court, in the league, to get a washed up center, who doesn’t mesh with their style, and kills their salary cap for the next 2+ seasons.

Gee, I wonder who’s philosophy will bear the most prosperous fruit; the Suns, or Billy “I just think I know more about basketball than anybody else” Knight?

You have to admit, from an irony standpoint, that if the Suns win the title, with Diaw at the 3, an over-the-hill Shaq at the center, AND, use our first-rounder to get EVEN BETTER for the future, the results will speak for themselves.

And all you Diaw haters better bone up on your position. ‘Cause dude will be telling the truth now that he’s finally got a position with the Suns. Last night he had 22 points, 7 boards, 5 dimes and a block.

Man what I wouldn’t give to see Marvin put up that kind of line every night. ‘Course the tin man would have to have a heart. Or play for Seattle or Portland, to give consistent effort.

There remains a question that hasn’t been successfully answered in over 3 years: how does Billy Knight still have a GM’s job?

By doc

February 8, 2008 6:49 AM | Link to this

ando hope you are asleep by now, for 8 mil a year diaw better finally deliver.he is a bit more than BAS group can afford and more than the tin man. just the same, well put into a perspective all can understand and one point i made at the bottom of a blog several days ago for all those that stlll relish horford at five. hope his time at five doesnt do him in before he transitions to a natural position.

sekou you know if this team is to be competitive for the ring one of the four and possibly two of the joshes, horford and marvin have to go for other pieces already overlooked in the draft. funny, how two starters on other teams cant make it off the bench for the hawks in ivey and diaw. anyone see a trend here? it also speaks well for those on the pines now, keep it clean, work hard in practice, save your body because woody may be a better teacher than manager of personel in games. do give him credit on tuesday for using west on kobe in the last possession or two on d. gee werent a lot of us here stupids on the blog wondering why that strategy hadnt been used in other games when the timing was appropriate? maybe the blog isnt too far off and maybe collectively ahead of the curve especially when ando is stirring the pot.

By xldoug

February 8, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this

Jo-Bling: Last attempt…but knowingly futile. Let’s lay this out: 1.Make asinine assertion or supposition…i.e. JS is a “terrible decision maker”…JS is not a good fit for this team…maverick, non-team player 2. Make a second, stunningly asinine assertion…in immediate contextual flow from asinine assertion 1…i.e. T-Lue is “amazing” 3. When it is pointed out that both assertions indicate a certain …cluelessness…attack the poor sods making such observations as “fools” or a** clowns”…nice that 4. Perhaps it would be better if one either made non-asisine assertions or one was more tolerant when such obvious asininity was pointed out Further discourse with such a hopelessly out of touch talent assessor being fruitless I yield the ttopic to your 24 years of well spent experience

By richbrave

February 8, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

JO BLING:

O.K. GM to GM what will it take to bring J. Smith to Washington. Name your price.

By Joe

February 8, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

Trade Josh Smith NOW while the stock is at the peak…

By Astro Joe

February 8, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

Why do people assume that BK is done with this roster? It took Phoenix how many shots at the Finals before realizing they needed a true center to help them in the playoffs? Have they been “fools” because for the past 3 seasons, they have tried to win the conference in a fashion that has NEVER been successful? Seems to me, the pundits have suggested that they are the model for the “new NBA”. Oh, maybe all of those pundits have been the fools.

Orlando desperately needs a defensive PF to play alongside D. Howard. They gave Rashard over $100M to play out of position. (Now, Turkaglu is playing about as well as Rashard would play at SF). Does this mean that Orlando’s roster is set because they knew they wouldn’t Battie this season? Of course not.

Yes, we need a defensive center to rotate into the game for all of about 20-24 minutes. Most teams have a hole in their roster, but the other players compensate for that missing link. Chicago had been able to compensate for a lack of size in their backcourt and a low post scorer for about 3 seasons. Is Paxton a “fool”? How long has LeBron played without a PG? How long has Houston needed a PF (and a PG)?

I guess at the end of every NBA season, there are 29 fools and only 1 true genius, the GM who holds the trophy. Oops, 2. The other genius being our guy Ando.

By Steve T

February 8, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

Trade JS do not make me laugh. Who are you going to replace him with is the question you should ask. How many 6-9 guys can take control of the paint like he does. Inch for inch there is not a better player in the NBA right now.

By SamJam

February 8, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

I was at the Hawks-Bulls game awhile back where Christian Laetner went for 30 or so, and the Hawks upset M.J’s Bulls.

It seemed I was the only person cheering for the Hawks. Front runners suck and have no integrity.

By DemDems4Ever

February 8, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

I wonder if all these “trade Josh Smith now” bloggers have ever seen him play? Or even seen an NBA game in person?

Have they seen what he is doing in the present? Do they think “stats’ are just numbers on paper?

What player would you trade from another team for Josh Smith? A player (or players) the Hawks would consider, of course.

If the Hawks trade Josh Smith we will be here one day in the future wondering what crazy person would have done such a thing?

People here think we should still have Boris Diaw but want to trade Josh Smith - how does that make any sense?

Trading Marvin? Now that makes pefect sense, but what would I know? I have only seen every game and though Marvin has improved, at his best he will not be the player Josh Smith is today.

By Steve T

February 8, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

And all you Diaw haters better bone up on your position. ‘Cause dude will be telling the truth now that he’s finally got a position with the Suns. Last night he had 22 points, 7 boards, 5 dimes and a block.

The question is why he could not do this in Atlanta. I have watch two players leave the Hawks and look like NBA players, but they did not look so good when they were with the Hawks. If Diaw was tsill on this team would he be that good. When he went to the Sun he gain the big C word and they has helped his game. I bet Salmin would look like a microwave Johnson for another team.

By SSI Fan

February 8, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

1. Can the Hawks win the title with Horford as the starting center? I don’t think they are big enough inside.

2. Can the hawks win the title with Horford and Smith as the starting forwards? I don’t think they would have enough outside shooting unless Smith dramatically improves his shot.

3. Would the Hawks want Horford or Smith to start the game on the bench? I think they are both too good for that, especially with the weaknesses at other positions.

Smith and Horford would both be most effective at power forward paired with a legitimate sized quality center and a small forward with shooting range.

There is a lot of enthusiasm about the Hawks after the 3 game winning streak, but remember they are still 3 games under .500. I want more than that and don’t know how to get better without making some major change to the roster.

Why would the Hawks want to pay Mike Miller $8,000,000.00 a year? Where does he play? The only teams that should want Jason Kidd at this stage of his career are those who think he can help them win the title this year or next year.

By ray

February 8, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Astro Joe,

You might want to read a few articles on other b-ball websites, such as HoopsHype. I hate to tell you this, but your arguments were blown out of the water before you could even type them. First, was it not you who said BK and the Spirit weren’t going to make any moves? It was a while back, but I could swear it was you (amongst) others who said that no moves would be made. Of course, it could have been some other “Joe” who was saying that, so I won’t persist in saying it was you.

Second, nobody assumes BK is done with the roster. You say this every year. And after the trade deadline…when Billy has made no moves…what are we supposed to think? Then he does nothing in the offseason. Again, what are we supposed to think? The man hardly talks at all, and never to the fans. Yet we still aren’t assuming anything. If you’re reading more than one or two entries on this blog, you’d see that we have been CLAMORING like crazy for BK to make a trade before the deadline hits.

As for Phoenix. See what Steve Kerr and Mike D’Antoni have to say about their system and why they added Shaq. You must have missed all that. Start with this: What has Phoenix’s goal been all this time? To win the championship. Have they succeeded with the players they have and the system they use? No. By acquiring Shaq, they have admitted that they did not have the personnel to win, using the system that they use. The fact that they haven’t accomplished their goal up to this point has proven that…time and again. So yeah, those pundits who call them the new NBA are fools. You said it yourself: they tried to win the conference in a fashion that has never been successful. And it still wasn’t. But the Suns themselves aren’t fools because after several playoff bound seasons, they eventually saw that they can’t beat San Antonio with the personnel they had. What were they supposed to do, wait until Duncan retired and then say “Now we can be the model for the new NBA!” Uh…no, because Bynum is growing up. Oden will be along next year. And each year, in one or both conferences, there’s a dominant big man who will change the game and have the right guys around him.

A fool is one who stays committed to a road that continually leads to a dead end. A smart man learns from his mistake.

You can quit with the comparisons to other teams’ problems. With the exception of Chicago, they’re all better than us. They’re also all better set up. Houston and Orlando both have actual centers. Good ones at that. They can figure out the rest of the pieces. They most likely will. Funny thing is, we as Hawks fans will hear more about what they’re doing to get better than we ever will about what our management is doing to make our team better.

And yes, Paxton IS a fool. He let Eddy Curry go, then dumped Tyson Chandler. Curry was the inside scorer they needed, and Chandler got better after he left Chicago. He signed Ben Wallace for a ton of money, only to find out he’s barely worth half of it…if that. Wallace sucks.$60 million for 4.9ppg and 8.7rpg? Yeah, Paxton’s a fool. He hung on too hard to his young core (ahem), didn’t properly fill the gaps around them, and where is it getting them? Now, instead of being a lock for the playoffs and a contender for the Eastern Conference championship as they were expected to do, they’re fighting to get to the 8th spot in the Eastern Conference. Oh, and the one other shot Paxson had at a big man scorer without having to give anything up? Surely you know the answer to this question. It was LaMarus Aldridge, who’s rights Paxson traded to Portland for none other than the rights to Tyrus Thomas. I’m sure you’ve seen what both of those guys are doing now. Aldridge is smokin’ ‘em in the West of all places. Meanwhile, Thomas is a bust that barely sees the court for 15 minutes per game. So yes, Paxson is a fool. What’s worse? He’ll probably make moves either before the deadline or after the season that begin to solve some of the problems he allowed. Will Billy?

And finally: Joe, generally you’re an insightful guy. You’re not stupid. Except when Ando comes around. When that happens, you lose all cognitive ability and come up with emminently nonsensical things like what you posted earlier. Why? Furthermore, Ando said damn near the same thing I said about Phoenix a few posts before that. You didn’t even bat an eyelash then, hell you may not have even read it. But as soon as Ando says something, you’re all over it. And you rarely make sense when you do it. You suddenly have these retorts to arguments that didn’t exist prior to your comments. It’s like you transform into this venom-spewing Do Do bird. Absolutely no direction (or teeth, or claws), but angry as hell. What’s with you, anyway? Then when faced with rebuttal, you simply change direction….weird…

By BA

February 8, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

So Jo Bling coached high shcool basketball? We are supposed to be in awe of his opinion? What a loser. What is your position in the NBA? What "scouts" are you talking too? Are they calling you because of your great high shcool reputation? Any team would take smooth in a heartbeat nobody has worked harder over the years to improve. It makes me sick to see some blowhard who knows nothing flex his "basketball knowledge" because he coached kiddie basketball.

By ray

February 8, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

steve T,

That answer should be obvious, should it not? Wrong coach, and therefore wrong system. Woody teaches, but does not inspire confidence. He demands and punishes, but does not encourage. Definitely a product of Bobby Knight’s school of abusive coaching. Only Knight understood offensive concepts. Woody still doesn’t.

By BA

February 8, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Hey Jo bling I used to play baseball in the yard with my little sister, should I offer Chipper some batting tips? What a schmuck! High shcool basketball? PLEASE!

By Hey Rain mini man

February 8, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Don’t worry about the Hawks players. Worry about the free service ur momma is giving away down on Ponce!

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

February 8, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Bottom line to “F” Boris Diaw, he has played better since leaving the Hawks, but he would not be of much use unless it as the 7th man. He would not start over Smoov or Duck, nor beat Chills off the bench. Not saying he couldnt make roster, but he would not have the same impactful role because we don’t spread the floor as the Suns, giving him iso’s. Trade still valid in my eye’s, especially when we make the playoffs.

RISE UP

By JerryWest

February 8, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Cavs are severly short handed and banged up - Verajao, Pavlo, Gibson, Gooden.

Horford should get 15+ rebounds. May be even break his record from the last game. If Horford doesn’t take Yao & Illgauskus out for dribble penetration he will never do it to anybody.

They are tired after flying in well past midnight after the nationally televised game last night.

A lose would be devastating.

We are not beating Houston on Saturday which makes tomorrow’s game doubly important.

By doc

February 8, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

the sheriff just shot his revolver.

still interesting the take on the suns’ trade as to what it represents for the d’antoni system or how it relates to getting the right mix to be able to switch gears and be flexible enough to do it when necessary. i think it is more the latter, said it last year and had atf chime in to agree the suns not making a move would cost them the championship last year and it did though stern helped.

unfortunately, it may be too late by one year or the bravado of o’neal is on target and added to his legacy as he puts the ring on nash’s finger as he did wade and kobe. me, i’d love it being a fan of both the suns and shaq. i just dont think they make high test diesel fuel and that may be what his body needs now. i also think in the right trainers hands if shaq wants it he can deliver for two more years but it will take an off season to do it. the if is the thing. shaq has walked the walk better than anyone else besides russell so i will bet on him until he proves me wrong.

shame the suns didnt spend up for chandler when he was available. shame on paxson for letting him go and spending the same amount on wallace instead and not taking roy as the big guard they sorely need. goes to show you some gm’s mess up worse than bk, however, they get to spend money to hide their mistakes, ala boston and la. whereas bk just gets to sit and wait for an ok from the lawyers or accountants or whoever really runs this “organization”.

By mykhalc

February 8, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

ANDO, you shake your head in despair ‘cause you missed the main fact/point. there is NOTHIN’ YOUNG about LAL tandem except BYNUM when compared to the HAWKS frontline. yeah, maybe young compared to you and me. but they can’t be looked at in the same way age-wise/hoops-wise as the HAWKS. all of those cats HAVE their game defined and established. JS, AH, and MW are just beginnin’ to find out who they are as players!! so Sekou’s point is dead on point!!

other than that, yes, we still know and are reminded, you are smarter than BK!!!!

By Ryder

February 8, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

What makes you think Atlanta can’t beat Houston tomorrow? Oh yeah that’s right Woodson will probably try to play isolation and a plodding halfcourt offense instead of taking advantage of the Rockets’ lack of athletes in the paint.

Honestly I think that Adelman would be a better fit for the Hawks’ up-tempo style and Woodson would fit setting up the Rockets’ offense.

As for the Cavs, I’m not sleeping on any team that comes in, especially after the way they played yesterday. Lebron will be the beneficiary of many calls so JS can’t afford to get in foul trouble early.

There’s a point I want to touch up on regarding the Suns changing their offense because of Shaq. What’s apparent is that a lot of you have forgotten that this trade wasn’t done because they were concerned their style wasn’t working in the playoffs, it was because they didn’t have a guy that opposing defenses were scared of down the stretch.

Don’t believe me? Go back to when they first faced the Spurs in the conference finals in 2005. What the Suns have lacked all along is someone who can take over the game on offense in the 4th quarter (go back to game one last year). They needed someone who wasn’t afraid to take the shots.

Oh yeah, they had that guy. What’s his name….ummmm….ummmm…

JOE JOHNSON!

Amare doesn’t have the chutzpah to take charge when the Suns need him most, he’s proven that point. Don’t forget that in 2006 they got all the way to the conference finals and lost because Dallas had too many weapons on offense.

Shaq will be motivated and eager to prove people wrong. Did he tank it in Miami? Of course, even though that doesn’t make it right. That said, Shaq is going to make the doubters eat their words. While everyone is p*ssed off thinking the Suns abandoned their offense, you should be concentrating on the fact that Shaq has something Amare never had, and that’s the grapefruits to take control when they need him to.

What does this have to do with the Hawks? Simple. Should the Hawks ever employ an up tempo style they would be able to wear down teams with their depth as they go deeper in games.

Woodson’s problem is that he doesn’t know how to coach to this team’s strengths, and that will come to light when they face a team that knows what they are doing.

He coaches as if he’s trying to save his job as opposed to building this team to contend. That is the main reason he doesn’t let Acie Law play, which hinders his growth.

But people say, Ryder, what’s wrong with Anthony Johnson being the starter? He doesn’t turn the ball over much.

True, but he also doesn’t get the guys in position to make plays in motion. Neither does TLue, and if the Hawks are serious about winning some games in May, they need to start playing in an offense that allows for cutting and movement.

The problem with Woodson is that he panics and does not inspire confidence. Much like Cleveland’s coach, who only keeps his job due to Lebron’s brilliance.

By mykhalc

February 8, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

DOC, you are right. the DIESEL has walked the walk tooooooo many times to even think about bettin’ against him. i’m no PHO fan but i can’t wait to see what they look like once SHAQ hits the court!!

By A Thinking Fan

February 8, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

Woodson only coaches after a losing period. Let’s see what he does if they win tonight. He’ll slack off again!

Disband/bar the Broken Spirit!

By A Thinking Fan

February 8, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Doc Shaq in Phx will work out for only 2 years, but it’s worth a gamble for them this year…

By JD

February 8, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

How about look down the list of rookies who have averaged 20 ppg as a rookie, just in the last 15 years. Horford is a role player, an above average role player, but Durant is a first option franchise player. Durant is more valuable to his team, he is the ROY. Thanks for coming out.

By Ken Strickland

February 8, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Man, you guys are really into it. Good comments and good insight. Like I’ve said before, different perspectives on some of the same issues rather than issues of right or wrong.

DOC-Your comments about having to possibly trade some of our key young talent echoed sentiments I expressed over a yr ago. It appears the Spirit Group wasn’t willing to offer contracts to Smith & Childress before ridding themselves of existing contracts. The question is, will they offer Smith a max contract, or sign and trade him for multiple pieces. JSmith is a unique talent, to say the least, but he alone isn’t going to take this team to the next level. And signing him to a max contract isn’t going to get us there either. Especially with players like Chills, Marvin, Shelden, and in the not so distant future, Horford coming up for contracts. That’s the financial problem you create when you pile up lottery picks in a short period. It becomes especially tricky when one or two develop into Allstar calibur players(the two Josh’s) before their rookie contracts expire. Then you draft a player(Horford)that comes out of the locker room kicking butt and earning a possible ROY.

The question is, do you blowup your salary structure to sign 2 or 3 players to max or near max contracts. Or, do you trade some of the talent and spread the limited wealth among multiple pieces. This will be an interesting off season. Oh, just so you don’t misinterpret my comments, I do not advocate trading Smith or Childress, but it’s not up to us.

By Ryder

February 8, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Or Ken Strickland do you let their contracts expire and trade them on the cheap because of what’s going on with ownership? Tough call and it’s difficult to be optimistic about the Hawks’ future should they go that route.

Shaq is going to DESTROY the West once he gets acclaimated to the Phoenix environment. Should they face the Lakers please pray for young Andrew Bynum.

JD here’s something I think you forgot to mention about Durant: he’s the ONLY option in Seattle’s offense. They have no one else, so he has to keep shooting. He does nothing to make them competitive and he isn’t the best rookie this year when all he does is jack up shot after shot. Horford is. They’re headed to the playoffs, Durant’s headed for Oklahoma City. End of story.

By Melvin

February 8, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Ken, there is no way around it. in order to win in this league you have to have the talent and that talent will cost you. there’s no rule saying that you can’t go over the cap to resign your own players (Joshes, MW, Horford, etc). therefore we could sign them all if ASG so choose to. However, we all have heard (or sense) that they don’t have the capital. I wish they would just sell the team so we as Hawks fans wouldn’t have to endure anymore of their mess….

By JJ

February 8, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Did anybody know what implications the Shaq/Marion trade will have on the replay against the Heat later in the year? Does Marion get to play?

Any chance now that Shaq doesn’t even play in Miami anymore that they’ll just decide to let it stand?

By randy

February 8, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

JJ

Yes, it still has to be played. But Marion and Banks cannot play in the replay.

Ridiculous in my opinion that it even has to be replayed since Shaq, the whole reason for the stupid replay, isn’t even going to be there. David Stern is a fool.

By randy

February 8, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Ryder,

The reason Woodson isn’t playing Acie Law is because he has played disasterously the whole year. If the Hawks are gonna keep playoff hopes alive they can’t be waiting for rookie to learn how to play, when they have 2 veterans who they can rely on. If Acie was showing any promise I would agree with you somewhat, but I haven’t seen any improvement with Acie Law all year. Hopefully next year, he will pay off.

By MannyT

February 8, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Ryder I hope you are wrong about Woody tomorrow vs Houston, but you’re probably correct. I also love the Woody for Adelman idea. He can definitely coach up tempo.

I like what the Suns did. Shaq gives them options that they didn’t have. While Marion is good in that offense, they can still run like wildfire with Amare at the 4. Shaq can give them 20-30 good minutes and have a major impact. I heard him on ESPN saying that he will adjust to what the Suns do (about 50 secs into video.)

While Durant is good, ALROY HORFORD is better. (..and I call him AlROY until he gets his trophy at the end of the season!)

Fact 1 - That funky efficiency stat

Fact 2 - The wins. It is easier to let Durant have his way when you lose 3/4 of your games. If you want recognition on a bad team, you have to be great. For recognition on a good team, you don’t have to be as dominant overall, but a clearly significant contributor. For those who want to jump on the Durant has more skills bandwagon—stop! I am not questioning his skills, just his impact on the team. AlROY has a bigger positive impact on the Hawks than Durant does on the Sonics. W/o him they might have 10 wins instead of 13. Think about what the Hawks record would be w/o their leading rebounder who also shows some inside game and an above average big man handle when he brings the ball upcourt.

Biggest case against AlROY, no national games to showcase his talents. Some folks won’t see him so they won’t vote for him.

Odd note-tonight is game 2 of a 3 game, 3 team, 3 night round robin with Houston, Cleveland, & Atlanta. I hope we win the mini tournament.

Let’s Go Hawks!

By LAJ

February 8, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Sekou, great interview on 680 the fan.

By doc

February 8, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

laj, what was said that was so great?

By mykhalc

February 8, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

yeah, give us the scoop LAJ!!

By laker and hawks fan

February 8, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

First of all, wednesday’s game was great. Being a big fan of both teams, I really couldn’t cheer for either. I believe the hawks have amazing potential to be great this year and end our playoff drought. Horford is turning out to be a baller. Unfortunately, I think he’ll come in a close second for ROY, Durant is his team’s go to guy. I think an argument could be made earlier when Durant was shooting an anemic FG%, but he’s been shooting better and pulled off some upsets lately.

The problem with the Hawks? Unfortunately I think no player is to blame, it’s Mike Woodson. Either it’s Mike Woodson or some of the players just won’t listen, which is pretty much also a coaching problem. Why is Josh Smith camping out at the 3pt line 50% of the time? He should be moving around causing havoc in the lane. I’ve seen him have one decent game from the arch this season, ONE. Why is it that the Hawks just look unmotivated sometimes? Remember the recent Clippers game where the Clippers were missing three starters? The Hawks looked lethargic and were down by 20 the whole game, until the last four minutes when they turned it on and almost won… almost. Could Woodson not get these guys motivated at least by the beginning of the four quarter if not the half? I hate to play armchair quarterback, but he also has been questionable with his substitutions. That’s just my opinion, what do you guys think?

P.S. Props to Chill for getting his game together. He had an early game where he missed a few shots including a dunk that had me worried.

By Astro Joe

February 8, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Ray, I don’t believe the Hawks will make any trade during this season, that doesn’t mean that the roster is complete. There is the summer, when something MUST be done. I think that the ASG will continue to postpone as many decisions as possible in hopes of an ownership resolution. I truly hope that I am wrong because this team could truly scare the conference’s elite with the right move of 2.

Those guys I sited are NOT fools. They, like most others, recognize that building a team is an iterative process. And at times, requires a little trial and error. Mostly, it requires patience. It took Phoenix 3 years after being in the second/third round of the playoffs to realize they need a true big man. If we get one in the summer, we are far ahead of that learning curve.

My constant rant is that GMs are not perfect. They all have warts if you look close enough. Our GM has been asked to build this roster using the single most risky means to build a team, the draft. We yell at him because he has failed to master that which even the great Jerry West could not do (remember the HOF careers of Troy Bell or Dahntay Jones). Has Phoenix even bothered to draft anyone since Amare or Barbosa?

Here’s what I think we are doing, treading water until the ownership mess is resolved. We’re doing the most we can while shopping at the Dollar Store. Why should we compare ourselves with those who add a $20M player whose scoring average is comparable to Childress? We’re not shopping in the same mall as those cats. And, we’re on a completely different timeline. Their nucleus is 10 years older than our core. What Phoenix does is irrelevant to our circumstances.

By Ryder

February 8, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe what makes you think a move or two is actually going to work with this team?

Every team outside of San Antonio always needs either an extra shooter or big man. I truly think that if Atlanta was that desperate for one they would’ve gotten it by now.

The problem, as lakers and hawks fan puts it, is that the system that is installed here hinders what they can do as a team. Shooter? Salim would fit that bill perfectly if Woodson knew how to integrate him properly.

Say they brought a shooter in, who sits down? Big man comes in, who on a team that only goes 7 or 8 deep on most nights takes a trip to the pine?

See, most people don’t think about that. What we should be harping about is how a team that is full of young and athletic talent always starts off so lethargic and has to make a furious rally just to keep games close?

By the time the Hawks are done “feeling out” their opponent, they’re looking at a 10 point deficit. Bringing in a player right now would probably throw the already delicate chemistry of the Hawks completely off balance, because Woodson coaches with zero confidence.

That said, I still give BK props for putting together a team that is on the playoff doorstep in spite of a messy ownership situation and a coach that has no idea how to work with NBA talent.

Also, Woodson’s system would hinder ANY PG that came to Atlanta, that includes Kidd, who would aim to have Woodson fired before their first game.

By ray

February 8, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Okay, Astro Joe, I get that. I still think Paxson made some really crappy moves. The team quit on the coach, for one thing. I think Skiles is a good coach, but he’s another one of those dictator types. Bringing Ben Wallace over was supposed to make them the team to beat. But how? They had a good defensive squad and needed a center, particularly one that could score. Ben is (or rather WAS) an overachieving, hard-working power forward who has never been, nor never will be a scoring threat. My point is, trial-by-error or not…he’s had the benefit of owners with money, draft position, and trading goods, yet the team has gone from on the rise in the playoff pecking order…to possibly not even making the playoffs. Sounds like a lot of mistakes to me.

As for comparing us to Phoenix, that’s not what I was doing. I simply stated Phoenix’s situation as a warning or admonition to those who think we can be emminently successful by modeling ourselves after them. We have to find our own way and do our own thing, that’s all.

Yes, I know all GMs have warts. When other teams are doing so much better than us, it’s hard to see anything but our warts. It’s as simple as that. Hell, with all the dang warts, it’s hard to know if there’s any normal skin. As for BK not mastering the draft…Jerry West screwed up too, but at least he had other avenues that he could’ve taken. BK apparently does not, which makes his draft day decisions all the more important. Which means all the mistakes he’s made have impacted us even more than they would have on other teams. I still say there’s no excuse for those mistakes.

Usually this is the part where somebody wants to compare jobs and mistakes, and all that stuff. Mistakes Billy Knight has made is akin to me arresting the wrong people. Guess what happens when I do something like that (thank GOD I haven’t)? Mistakes like that prove quite costly. BK’s have been too..

I understand the analogy concerning Phoenix. Taking three years to get further in the playoffs is a fine-tuning thing. Taking three years (or more)to just be good enough to fight for a playoff spot is a rebuilding thing. But that’s just my opinion. I am no genius. Phoenix hasn’t needed the draft nearly as bad as we have. And why bother to draft anyone if you don’t need to and can use whatever draft picks you have to do other things. Oh, I think they did draft DJ Strawberry though.

Doc, I heard that. And I know your tongue was very much planted in your cheek, you ol’ rascal you….LOL!!

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 8, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

For whatever it’s worth, a trade of Speedy (possibly retiring so contract comes off the books), Marvin, Shelden, and Lorenzen Wright (expiring contract) for Jason Kidd works in the ESPN Trade Machine.

Since Kidd has 2 years left on his deal, and Lorenzen’s contract is the only one in that deal that runs for a shorter length, the Hawks would only be adding $3.25 million (Lorenzen’s yearly salary) in total salary.

Of course, draft picks and/or Salim Stoudamire (very cheap contract) can be thrown in the deal to sweeten it if necessary.

The obvious question is whether New Jersey sees value in Marvin and Shelden, and whether Atlanta Spirit would authorize a commitment of an extra $3.25 million in salary.

But it would certainly be worth a shot. After the Gasol trade, I wouldn’t call any trade offer too ridiculous to propose, no matter how lopsided it may look on the surface.

By mykhalc

February 8, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, JOE, Ryder, all good points!!!

RAY, you are right BK decisions have more impact seemingly!! why??? ‘cause he DOES NOT have an on-going alternative solution/option to correct mistakes!!! and yep, i know WRIGHT and SPEEDY were not the best/bad choices. but BK, due to the BASG, is handcuffed to correct his mistakes!!! and they can say all they want how it’s business as usual. we ALL know better!!! we witness the opposite DAILY!!!!

and that brings me to our HC!! WOODSON’s coachin’ also MINIMIZES the assets we did draft!!! who in the hell REALLY knows what kinda player SOLO is?, SALIM is?, ACIE is?, SHELDEN is? MARIO is? ???? who knows what LWRIGHT really has left in the tank??? i sure as hell don’t. the only thing i know is these cats should sure be confused as to what is expected of them and what kinda chance they’ll get to contribute!!!

so for me, i blame the BASG group for bein’ pi$$-a$$ owners, BK for not bein’ perfect as a GM and maybe not followin’ ‘conventional concepts’ on buildin’ a team, and WOODSON for not knowin’ how to coach anythin’ other than BOOBY KNIGHT ball!!!

but when it all comes down to it i hold WOODSON most accountable ‘cause game after game he has a chance to make a difference in directin’ this team. he has a chance to utilize the strengths that this team DOES have!!! and many more times than not, he fails!!!

then i fault BK for keepin’ the conductor he chose to drive a train he is clueless of how to keep on the tracks!!!

then i’m back to blamin’ the BASG!! man, it is a cyclic cluster f#ck!!!! that’s what we have here…PERIOD!!!

still a fan tho!!!

By Astro Joe

February 8, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

Ray, no doubt Paxton has made several dumb decisions. And there was a time when Phoenix wasn’t in the playoffs. They drafted Marion & Amare in the lottery, so it wasn’t like they have been playoff-bound for a long time. They just had resources to sign Nash to what at the time was an offer too rich for Cuban’s liking (think about that for a second) and smart enough to hire an innovator like D’Antoni. (I’ve been on record for upteen years that BK’s greatest failing by light years is his inability to hire an effective coach).

I have certainly been trumpeting the “Phoenix ain’t won crap” sentiment for a while. They’re a more exciting version of the Nellie’s old Mavs squad. I just get frustrated by the attitude that because BK hasn’t acquired a certain resource, it must mean that he thinks that we don’t need it. When you look at the holes of other franchises, it seems silly to think that fans like ourselves are that much smarter than these GMs. I don’t think that the Houston GM believes Rafer Alston or Mike James are championship PGs. I think he did the best he could under whatever his unique circumstances were. I’m guessing he could have done better. But I’m certain that he isn’t satisfied with the team’s PG play (since Kenny Smith played). And I’m also certain that trading away the rights to Rudy Gay for Shane Battier was pretty dumb, but I digress. I bristle at the notion that a GM’s inactivity equates to his satisfaction that his team is championship ready. It just doesn’t hold water. We’re not that smart and they’re not that blind.

By JohnGTfan

February 8, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

Can someone please explain to me why it seems the 2nd quarter and the Hawks just simply do not match this year????

By Steve T

February 8, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

I am sick of hearing about how small Al is. Let just compare him to some other in the NBA:

Marcus Camby - 6-11 - 235 As you can see both of these guys are relative the same size, now let us look at the stats: Marcus is averaging 9.3 points, 14.3 rebs, and 3.9 blks per game, while Al on the other hand average 9.2 points, 9.9 rebs, and 1.0 blk per game.

Kurt Thomas is playing center at 6-9 - 235. While AL is 6-10 - 245. Nazr Mohammed 6-10 - 250 Theo Ratliff 6-10 - 235 The fact remains that there are plenty centers in the NBA that are about the same size as Horford. Horford is just a rookie and his stats stacks up well against Mr. Camby. Nuff said!

The Hawks need a long range shooter more than they need a PG. If they needed a PG they would have had a 19 -20 pts lead on some tean. In Portland, they built a 19 pts lead but they did not have enough outside shooting and Portland used a zone. If you had that long range shooter, he could have busted up the zone. We need to find a value guy like Kareem Rush, Eddie House, James Jones,etc.

By Steve T

February 8, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

In all fairnes, Marvin like JJ is playing through an injury. Things happen in bball that can throw a player game off.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 8, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

There is absolutely no reason why a Cavs team missing 3 of its top 5 players should be leading the Hawks by 13 points on the 2nd night of a back-to-back.

The Hawks are being careless and playing without energy. This game is one they absolutely have to win. Why is nobody other than Al willing to challenge Zydrunas Ilgauskas? Someone’s gotta draw fouls on their Z to get him out of the game, because there’s nobody on the Hawks who has that kind of size.

By JohnGTfan

February 8, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Najeh I know what you’re saying, and completely agree. However, we all know there are SEVERAL reasons why the Hawks are losing this game. But why beat a dead horse? LOL

By JohnGTfan

February 8, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Hawks making Z look like a STUD!!!!!!! LOL

By Ryder

February 8, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

JohnGTfan, come on bro, you know that Atlanta plays down to the competition when they feel they have an advantage. They haven’t done much to Z, and they come out lethargic on offense. Gee big surprise. They need to pick it up!

By JohnGTfan

February 8, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

I know they do…but I would think this would be a game they would really be up for. Lebron usually brings a good crowd with him, last game of a 4-game homestand…gain ground in the standings….HOW CAN YOU NOT GET UP FOR IT. But Ryder, unfortunately, I know what you’re saying. The painful lives of Hawks Fans. LOL

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 8, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Marvin is playing very well today. See? I give him props when he deserves it. He is attacking better, knocking down his shots, and on that last possession he D’d up LeBron nicely in the post. Keep playing that way Marvin.

By Astro Joe

February 8, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Sekou, if I may open up a fugly can again… did Speedy decide to get the surgery? What’s up with him?

By kwooden1

February 8, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

We can win this game!! Go guys, finish at the rim. Again the guys are getting no help from the coach. 28.4 left…

GO HAWKS!

By SEAN

February 8, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

Out-coached again…it ain’t the players.

By smartguy

February 8, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

I wonder how Cleveland knew that JJ was going to get the ball in a critical late game situation?? Same dumb coach, same dumb call, same typical result.

Josh Smith dominated the fourth quarter, but Woody wouldn’t give him the ball when it really mattered. What a great coach. Joe Johnson is like 2 of 30 in critical late game situations. WOODY IS A TOTAL IDIOT.

FIRE WOODY

FIRE WOODY

FIRE WOODY, please.

By DEKATURKINGZ

February 8, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Marvin Sucks He lose the ball every time we needed a basket. And Joe Damn He played like sh*t in the 4 quarter again! Damn

By Angry Tim

February 8, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

We need a new coach ASAP.

By marvinsucks

February 8, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Marvin is playing a good game. I missed that. He is shooting well. Playing well involves being as physical as the other team. Lebron is killing him. Anytime it gets physical Marvin runs the other way. I would love to see him foul someone hard once. Stop helping everbody up and asking them if they are OK. He needs to go see the Wizard of OZ. Those 5 rebounds fell in his lap.

By Chuck D

February 8, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Mike Woodson is the worst coach in Atlanta history.

By Angry Tim

February 8, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

I hate Woody.

By ja50us

February 8, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

The Hawks lost to the Cavaliers tonight. Joe Johnson is overrated and the Hawks gave up too much for him. If anybody should have went to the All star game it should have been Josh Smith. Joe is not consisted and he let Snow out play him. What a joke. Atlanta should try and get what they can for Joe Johnson and try and bring some other free agents along with new blood at the top and let BK go. He just ruin this team.

By mykhalc

February 8, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

did i miss somethin’??? why didn’t HORFORD see more mins in the 4th???

By marvinsucks

February 8, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

mykhalc What you missed was MICHAEL WOODSON. Did anyone notice when they came out with 20 seconds on offense. This idiot took Josh Smith out of the game and put in Al Horford. The same Al who he didn’t play nearly the whole 4th. If he couldn’t tell that Marvin was terrified of LBJ he shouldn’t be coaching. I know Smith is great weak side but he should of been guarding Lebron. Sorry, that means MW would have to battle down low and box out. Things he doesn’t seem to be capable of. Remember Corey Brewer’s game against Marvin. I think he had 19 rebounds. This team could be a top five team in the sorry eastern conference. His coaching has lost at least five games this year. Really creative giving JJ the ball for the iso. No one expected that.

By hawksfan

February 8, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Hahaha woody at his old tricks again, and just when i thought that he changed. Marvin is a great offensive player but hes defense, well you know what i mean.

By hawksfan

February 8, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Hahaha woody at his old tricks again, and just when i thought that he changed. Marvin is a great offensive player but hes defense, well you know what i mean.

By new jersey faithful

February 8, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

can anyone protect and hold onto the ball??? they looked careless! Where was Horford??

By hawksfan

February 8, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

We played well tonight even though we were not coached well tonight.

Mysterious of the universe: woody puts marvin on James What does woody do in the huddle when we already know that the ball is going to joe for an iso.

Its the same thing over and over again they win 3 and lose 5

I blame the coach, and i hate his stupid face when hes mad at the team, he should be mad at himself!!

By new jersey faithful

February 8, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

DUCK BUTT DEFENSE!!!

By hawksfan

February 8, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

We played well tonight even though we were not coached well tonight.

Mysterious of the universe: woody puts marvin on James What does woody do in the huddle when we already know that the ball is going to joe for an iso.

Its the same thing over and over again they win 3 and lose 5

I blame the coach, and i hate his stupid face when hes mad at the team, he should be mad at himself!!

By hawksfan

February 8, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

Man if only josh had that big fourth quarter in the first half when jj and marv were hot. We would’ve had a comfortable lead and wouldve blown this game out.

By ray

February 8, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

Sighhhhh….another loss. Another perplexing set of play calls at the end. “Gee, I wonder if they’ll give it to Joe at the end…yep”

Joe, if you say so. I’m not one to say that I’m smarter than our GM, because I don’t quite have that innate ability to find talent in it’s most raw or most pure forms. However, some guys DO have that talent. You can believe it or you can not. I have seen firsthand evidence of a guy who has this ability and is capable of using it. But there’s no use in telling anybody that. They’d have to be there to see it. And even then, out of pure spite or envy, they’d still choose not to believe it. I’d like to believe that you’re right and Billy isn’t that dumb. I just haven’t seen any evidence to suggest that this is true. If there is some, kindly point it out. I don’t understand you bristling at the thought of someone thinking they’re smarter than Billy Knight, or any other GM. Why does that bother you? After all, it’s entirely possible. Seen it first hand, trust me on that.

One of the biggest problems with Billy is his total lack of communication with the fan base. Now of course he doesn’t have to tell us anything at all. However, he projects a superiority complex when he does talk. We have no earthly idea where this franchise is headed or what the direction is. The coach isn’t getting the job done. The team continues to lose. We have the same problems we’ve had for 3 years or more. And all we get from the GM is “Well I don’t feel like talking about it or anything else, because I find it counter-productive.”

Last I looked, half of what goes on in this organization is counter productive…

By Steve T

February 8, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

People can now see the problem on this team. They have great talent but so so coaching. It is time to go somewhere else when the game is on the line because everyone in the universe knows JJ will get the ball on an iso. The rest of the team is useless because they are standing round and watching. Just once I would love to see Josh Smith cut to the basket for a alley-oops.

By Steve T

February 8, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Start using JJ as a decoy because team will make an effort to shut him down. This is another reason I wanted a pure 3 point shooter on this team because he would make it hard to double JJ.

By drmaryb

February 8, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

How could the HAWKS lose this game to all them scrubs over there…How can one man beat an entire team all by himself…Does LeBron have any siblings…hell I’ll take his sister if she can ball…maybe the HAWKS should draft some players from the WNBA!!!

Maybe we can go to Scottish Rite Hospital and take some sick little girl off life support ….we need all the help we can get…Beggars cant be choosy - can they?

Why not play everybody on the damn bench…why pay people to sit there in suits…hell i’ll keep the bench warm if salim wants to pay a stunt - double while he steps out for a bite to eat or a date or something…Hell Mario West can take off and go watch TECH PLAY..i’ll hold his spot for a small fee….no one will notice he isn’t there…come on..if you’re not winning try something else!

By HB Ando

February 9, 2008 3:46 AM | Link to this

Lebron? Siblings? Hell, I think he’s got at least a half-dozen kids that are in their early teens, given that he’s 34.

Enjoyed watching the game, up close, thanks to Jhan, with Doc in attendance, though there was never any real sense that we were going to win the game this time.

Watching this franchise, over the last four years, is like YouTubing a train wreck in the slowest possible fashion, frame-by-frame. While I was sitting with Doc and Jhan, I suggested that Damon Jones may be the one player in the NBA who could be replaced by the greatest volume of no-names, collectively, in the country. Yet as bad as he is, I realized that he might actually be a little better than Salim. Talk about depressing.

Astro Joe, nobody here has found more different ways to proffer the same message, since the birth of Sekou’s blog, over and over and over again, than me. But my wife, who, in her college days, was strangely magnetic for attracting the fathers of her peers, during UGA football weekends, at the myriad of watering holes that make up downtown Athens, had a simple and straight forward line for those relentless drunks that sought her out in a club: “there’s no fool like an old fool”.

For some odd reason, when I read your attacks on my opinions, repetitive as they have become, that line always dances to the forefront of my brain. You just seem so damn clueless to continue to suggest that Billy’s decision making hasn’t been world-class stupid. You ramble illogical, when suggesting that his draft choices are somehow the byproduct of ownerships’ legal battles.

Why is it so hard to simply admit what is obvious to almost everybody who has an informed opinion on the subject, and acknowledge that Billy Knight is an absolute fool (and, as my wife always said, there’s none quite as absolute as an old one)?

Over the years, despite a likely level of insider information that would render his comments on the subject pretty thinly disguised as wholly inaccurate, our friend Flash has suggested that I might actually be Belkin. Fortunately, there are enough regulars, here, who have met me in the flesh, to dismiss what was always a kind of light-hearted, chuckle-inducing suggestion, regarding my actual identity: I am simply HB Ando.

But you, Astro Joe, with your clockwork-like over reactions to all of my posts, which typically are underscored by an otherwise inexplicable loss of rationale (if not more egregiously defined by outlandish mis-characterizations of my actual positions, or earlier statements), seem a far more likely candidate for a man behind a mask: Is Astro Joe really Billy Knight?

While my better senses tell me the answer is no, it, as an explanation for your stalker-like fascination with attacking my opinions, still remains the most logical explanation for what has become readily apparent to the long-timers, here.

Metaphorically speaking, if you had an ax to grind with me, you’ve near-psychotically filed your implement of desired destruction into unidentifiable dust.

Excuses for Billy Knight’s failings look more flimsy with every passing day. Whether that’s exemplified by his prolifically horrifying draft choices, his ridiculous over-payment for the few acquisitions he has made, or his relatively complete lack of participation in the annual trade market.

And, oddly, when I’m not a regular presence here at the blog, you seem to support these now-obvious conclusions (I hope you didn’t strain any of your long-past useful body parts, as one of the last to climb on to the “Billy really is as clueless as Ando said he was, 3 and 1/2 years ago” bandwagon.

Give it a rest. Maintain your desired dignity. I’ve offered to let you pass, peacefully, many times.

I have no beef with you. I was taught to respect my elders, and smile as they regale us with stories of the past.

Billy is the PRIMARY culprit in the fiasco that is the Hawks. It doesn’t mean that the Spirit and Woody don’t have weight to carry. But stand up straight, like the proud man I’m certain you are, and just concede the obvious.

And then move on…….

By JerryWest

February 9, 2008 6:31 AM | Link to this

When Lue was pounding the ball with 35 seconds left, and we were down 3, I screamed at the TV so loudly that my baby woke up. I had a big fight with my wife for that. Needless to say, all the fun I had planned after the game was cancelled. Thank you Lue.

By JerryWest

February 9, 2008 6:32 AM | Link to this

When Lue was pounding the ball with 35 seconds left, and we were down 3, I screamed at the TV so loudly that my baby woke up. I had a big fight with my wife for that. Needless to say, all the fun I had planned after the game was cancelled. Thank you Lue.

By kwooden1

February 9, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

I couldn’t make myself blog after the loss last night, but I don’t really like the blog about losses unless I saw the game. (listening on the radio again!) In my mind I’ve figured out what Woody is doing and it makes it even clearer that he’s not the coach for this team (I hope he changes). He has a few standard rotation moves Chills for Marvin (sometimes JS) earlier in 1st and 2nd quarters, Lue and Zaza, late in quarters for AJ and Al. Now he’s aways going to end the games with Lue and Chills. (Cleveland went small so he left Marvin in the game over Al) As far as I can see/hear the guy is doing nothing else, but letting the players figure things out by themselves. (changes defenses occasionally, has maybe two offensive sets) I’ve never been a coach, but if this is he’s style than I total disagree, especially with a young team!

With that said the guys did a great job of battling in this game and they definitely had a chance to win. Lue needs to figure out how to move the ball in the fourth quarter, he’s got to trust that he will get the ball back. JJ, has to pass out of the double teams earlier (I can see them coming through the internet radio!!)

Don’t expect any help from the coach or the organization guys!! Keep working hard and find away to the PLAYOFFS!!

GO HAWKS!

By smartguy

February 9, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

Jerry, you can thank Woody for calling the SAME play at crunch time. Down three, hmm, lets go ISO TO JOE. Everyone in the world knew it was coming, but Woody ran it anyway.

Ando, the last thing I want to do after reading that post is to get into it with you, but let me just say a few things. It is not BK who calls the same failing play at the end of games. It is not BK who refuses to use his bench. It is not BK who sets in-game rotations and substitutions. It is not BK who slows down the game even when running is working.

Is our roster perfect? No, but show me one that is. One thing that I think has been shown over and over is that we have more than enough talent to win. Drafting is an inexact science, not some fact-based clear cut choice. For Shledon’s pick, remember four other teams passed (five if you count Minni) on bRoy, and also remember stealing Josh Smith @19. Would you rather have Tyrus Thomas at this point? Chills is solid, Marvin is budding, and Horford is a beast. We could make a long list of draft picks worse than Billy’s, starting with Fran Vazquez and certainly to include Seattle’s three top ten picks on terrible big men.

Now, I have never been a big fan of BK. I thought that using a top five pick on the same position for 3 straight years was not so smart. Free agent acquisitions have been weak, but who did you want? Ben Wallace? Its not like there has been crops of great free agents. You do the best you can, and sometimes you have to overpay in a barren market.

As far as the ASG, I can’t stand them. I think they are the biggest bunch of clowns around. A big committee to report to a bigger ownership group. Who is coming up with these ideas? I don’t know for sure, but it seems like they are too poor to hire a new coach or take on additional salary in a trade. Nonetheless, I don’t see them having an impact on individual games, which is mainly what I’m worried about.

My main point is that Mike Woodson is most responsible for this teams’ underachievement. Bad substitutions, poor rotations, terrible offensive strategy, and inability to get along (let alone to lead) with players and assistant coaches alike. Woody has had problems with almost every player on the roster. Not to mention, he saves his worst decisions for late in the game when the outcome is still to be decided. In my opinion, Woody, and Woody alone, has cost us at least a handful of games.

By preston

February 9, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

The Hawks definately should have won this game……..I just cannot understand how you let an undermanned team playing back to back games on the road, come into your building and basically out play, and out hustle you……….and even more demoralizing is the fact that Lebron really was not much of a factor in Cleveland’s win. Whether the blame lies with Woodson or with the players, this team without a doubt is the most underachieving team in the league………soo much talent, soo much energy……..but soo little results…..we should be no where near 4 games under .500,…..we should not even be a .500 team, but better. Why have Cleveland, Toronto, and Washington surpassed us rather comfortably in the standings when just over a month ago we were ahead of them……..why have we regressed to playing sub .500 ball, when those other teams have stepped up their game? Which team and which coach will show up tonight in Houston? Will it be the team that just beat a very good lakers team, and the coach that plays to the strength of his team? Or will it be the team that basically gift wrapped a win to Portland, loss to a undermanned Clipper and Cavelier????

By RBattle

February 9, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Hasn’t Mr. Woodson realized that everyone knows Joe is taking the last shot. Mike do you have anything else in your playbook? It happened in Portland and now again against Cleveland.If the fans know it, don’t you think the opposition knows. please try something new!

By smartguy

February 9, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

RB, its way more than the last few games. It has been going on since last season (we weren’t in too many close games prior to that). It took him over three years to change the halftime routine for improved play in the third quarter. Woody is clearly an idiot to everyone but the ASG.

FIRE WOODY AND WATCH THE HAWKS SOAR!

By richbrave

February 9, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Last time I looked my Wizards were tied with Atlanta in the loss column. As a Wizards fan I do not consider them superior to the Hawks. I LIKE (not love) the Wiz, but I’m no apologist for them. Tell it like it is. Now the Braves, I LOVE.

By Steve T

February 9, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

The Cavs were not as unmanned as you though. They had 5 players in double figures. But the stat that killed the Hawks were at the 3 point line where the Cavs were 8-17 and the Hawks were 3-11. They made five more 3 pointers which is 15 more points.

By Clyde

February 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Astro Joe

February 9, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Not that I can talk, but JJ may consider shedding some pounds this summer. If he’s not going to seond his time in the post (ala Mitch Richmond), then he needs to improve his quickness and lift.

I wonder if TMac will make a rare appearance on the court tonight. Poor Horford, Big Z one night, Yao the next. It’s BK’s fault he didn’t sign either Dampier, Curry or Nene to one of those $50M deals when they were available. Those guys are so clearly worth the price. And why does BK insist on a bottom 3 payroll salary? He obviously gets a cut of the cap space between our payroll expenses and the luxury tax threshold. And I wish he’d stop the water drought.

By cp

February 9, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

I was just saying how we play down to teams and we did it again. Ira Newble had a good game. When Ira Newble is torching you then it is not looking good. Mike “Gregg Knapp” Woodson is rediculous. This guy refuses to add some type of new wrinkles to his 2 page long play book. Who doesnt know we are going to iso Joe. I dont even know why we have a bench when only 2 players on it get regular time. The sad part is I think we are stuck with Mike Knapp until the end of the season. If we make the playoffs he might get an extension.

By cp

February 9, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

I have to add that some players on the bench confidence is probably gone. Look at Acie. He had a great game a few nights ago. He had like 8 assist and like 1 turnover yet has barely seen the court since. Woody has no clue on how to substitue players and make in game adjustments. This is not his first year anymore so im sick of it. It is time to make a change. Play great one game and go missing for the next 3 weeks. Have horrible games like AJ or Lue and get a lot of minutes. Mike Knapp has to go.

By richbrave

February 9, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

DMARYB:

You out there lady?

By HB Ando

February 9, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Smartguy, I’m not going to rehash what’s been previously posted here. But my pre-draft preferences, in all the preceding years, were well-defined, and went on record before the picks were made (including multiple posted references by Sekou, on this blog, that I was fixated on taking Paul before we took Marvin, during multiple exchanges with him pre-draft). So no point in going through each pick, again, to discuss the players I like (and for the final time, Josh Smith FELL into Billy’s lap, as some mock drafts had him going as high as to Philly, in the top-seven, before questions regarding his maturity and hoops IQ where uncovered during pre-draft workouts: what was Billy, or any other possible GM supposed to do when the best athlete in the draft, who happens to be a home town boy, in a city sadly lacking in local interest and ticket sales supposed to do? He HAD to take Smith there, and it wasn’t as long as two years ago that Astro Joe was continuing to insist that Billy made a mistake and should have taken Jameer Nelson with that pick; how smart would that have been?).

Once again, as far as Woody goes, it’s the chicken and the egg. Who hired Woody? Who continues to leave him in the position of head coach? Who created an imbalanced roster of high-flying wings, with no anchor (center), and no GPS (point guard)? Who has a coach known for defense, who came from a systems (Indiana U and Detroit Pistons), known for half-court offense, yet still seems to lack a basic grasp of half-court sets and personnel changes, to optimize player match ups?

Anything you can blame Woody for still finds the buck stopping at the feet of the GM who is responsible for both the roster and the initial, and ongoing, decision to allow Woody to coach the team.

You can blah blah about the Spirit tying Billy’s hands, but that’s BS. Losing, and making crippling roster/draft decisions does nothing to drive ticket sales and build a fan base.

You can’ fire the Spirit, and you can’t blame Woody for still having a job. But, with Billy Knight, you can, and should, do both.

By Ryder

February 9, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Scola and Battier are going to KILL Marvin Williams and Josh Smith tonight. Will it be becuase they are more talented? Heck no!

It will be due to the fact that they will be the beneficiaries of so many cheap calls when JS and MW drive to the basket. It will be due to the fact that Woodson will be too scared of Yao Ming’s presence to actually force him to come out on Horford.

JJ,who is the most underappreicated All-Star in Hawks history, will be forced to once again get things started on offense knowing that Houston will double him up. Woodson will still be too stupid to rely on someone else to score.

If you want to see or hear about scared coaching get ready for tonight’s game. Throw in Woodson’s propensity for not knowing how to coach on the road and I see the recipe for a Houston blowout.

Oh, well at least I can go to bed early for church service. I need to repent after the words that came out of my mouth after last night’s game.

Ando we both know Knight’s gone at the end of the year, so why waste precious seconds of your life blogging about the same old thing?

When you’ve found a suitable replacement, then please let someone know.

cp I think you meant to say that Woodson has only 2 PLAYS in his playbook (which is, throw it in to JJ inside, and the other play is throw it to JJ outside). I don’t think he has the mental capacity to have two full pages.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 9, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

You know… it seems like everyone is divided into three groups: people who think ASG is the problem, people who think Woody’s the problem, and people who think Billy’s the problem. Has it ever occurred to y’all that all three of them are the problem? Truth is a Woody-coached team with a competent GM and ownership would get better results. Same with a Billy-GM’d team with a competent coach and ownership. Same with an ASG-owned team with a competent GM and coach. It’s really a vicious cycle of craptaculousness — the longer Woody, Billy and ASG are running the Hawks’ organization, the longer each one’s stupidity rubs off on the others, making for a large, steaming pile of sewage that keeps becoming more and more offensive. You can’t single out one of them as being more worthy of blame than the others, because they couldn’t have accomplished this level of ineptitude individually.

One other thing. Firing a guy because he screwed up in the past is an idiotic strategy, unless you’re sure that a) he will continue to screw up, regardless of the people around him, and b) there’s someone better who is available. The Falcons made this mistake firing Dan Reeves, and paid for it miserably when they found out that Jim Moron and Bobby Petraitor were a thousand times worse. Billy and Woody have been pretty bad. I’d like to see both of them go, sooner rather than later. But ASG better have someone more qualified in mind before they make a decision. The last thing I want to see is a press conference unveiling new head coach Bob Weiss and new general manager Pete Babcock.

By Najeh Davenpoop

February 9, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

“When you’ve found a suitable replacement, then please let someone know.”

I couldn’t agree more.

By mykhalc

February 9, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Najeh Davenpoop, if you’re up for it check out my 7:31pm from last nite…along the same lines you just posted.

ANDO, you always bring it whether i agree with your posts or not. but you gotta answer me one thing if you pls…why do you continue to go to the games??? gotta be JHAN and DOC’s company, right??? ‘cause you CANNOT be REALLY enjoyin’ the team, right??? oh i got it. MUST BE THE COLD ONES!!!LOL

By Ken Strickland

February 9, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

KWOODEN1, I have the same problem, but was too embarrassed to admit it until your post. I don’t want to make comments that are born out of frustration, so I have a tendency to wait until I settle down.

What in the world is going on here. This team finally starts pushing the ball for 4qtrs and Woodson runs his starters into the ground by using an 8 man rotation. That goes against conventional wisdom. This fool is wearing out his top players before the Allstar break. The energy and performances rendered during the Laker gm took a lot out of the starters, especially JJ, JSmith and Horford. Then you come up with a gm plan that uses only 8 players against a team like Cleveland. I don’t count MWest’s token mins.

On a more positive note, I am excited about one thing. We didn’t play a very good gm. We had too many foolish turnovers, shot poorly and allowed too many take aways. Cleveland shot very well, especially from 3pt range, yet they couldn’t take advantage and run away form us. We got enough easy transition baskets to offset those issues. Woodson has divided this team into those he allows to contribute and those he won’t.

Most, if not all of us would love to spend a weekend with HBerry, JSimpson or Beyonce. We know it will never happen, but it doesn’t stop us from wanting and/or dreaming about it. Woodson would love to have a team in the mold of the Pistons. He knows it won’t happen with the Hawks, but it doesn’t stop him from wishing and/or acting it out.

By ray

February 9, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Najeh,

It’s obvious that all three entities are part of the problem. Or rather, all three represent a part of the problem as a whole. The differences of opinion do indeed tend to go blindly in one of the three directions. However, some of us are arguing over who has contributed the most to the problem.

Here’s where my opinion differs from yours: you think that competence displayed by any two out of the three will work. I say that competence displayed by any two out of three is an impossible fraction in most, if not all, scenarios within this organization. Why? Let’s start with this: a competent and wholly stable ownership equals NO MORE BILLY KNIGHT. Subsequently, no more Billy Knight likely means NO MORE MIKE WOODSON. So now you’ve got 1 out of 3.

Now, let’s say that the ownership and gm are competent. What do you have? NO MORE WOODY, because he clearly is not working out here, and a competent GM would’ve begun the process for replacing him…quite some time ago…rather than risk his own job. Then there’s the coach. A competent coach may be able to mask the incompetency of GM and owner…for a while. However, a coach in such a situation might actually want out after a while.

So yeah, it’s a vicious circle. But at some point, you have to peg a dart on the dartboard. Let’s face it: owners hire GMs to handle/manage things because they’re supposed to know business AND basketball. Or rather business as related to basketball. So an owner may or may not know enough to be able to determine right away whether or not a GM is capable. That would speak to the owner’s incapability. However, it’s an NBA GM’s job to know how to fit a team together, and fit a coach to that team…or vice versa. Either way, it has to be done properly. It’s been over three years, and none of it has worked. I blame the GM for that. You blame who you choose.

The only problem with vicious circles is that it leans toward the sugar-coated and exceedingly false idea that “it’s nobody’s fault.” The circle has to stop at some point, and that point is the GM…in my opinion.

By ray

February 9, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

Ken, notice that no one is really taking up for Woody anymore. He has gotten these guys to play hard. But then, most decent high school coaches are able to do that. Our guys are young, impressionable, and have class. If this was happening with a group of veterans, it wouldn’t be the same. Veterans know what the deal is, and have usually been exposed to more than one head coach. Notice how the one guy who’s walked away from Woody (AJ)…is a veteran. But AJ isn’t a powerful enough player or personality. Imagine if it was JJ. How much you want to bet Woody wouldn’t have lasted this long?

By mykhalc

February 9, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

a sad fact…WOODSON WAS NOT hired to win!!! think about that one for a minute!!!

By Preston

February 9, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

RYDER…..dude you were spot on……..funny thing is, it does not even appear that no one is surprised by tonight’s game……………..unfortunately we have been conditioned to accept this crap.