Hawks

By Clyde

January 22, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By SQUAWKER

January 22, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this

Heard any rumors regarding potential deals, Sekou? We need to add a shooter and another big man.

By HB Ando

January 22, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

Let’s go point by point:

-AJ could have avoided this incident if Billy Knight had aggressively sought out the acquisition of Calderon about 2 years ago, when I first suggested it, and before he became the one of the hottest free agent targets of the upcoming summer

-If Zaza is as done as he seems on this franchise (Boris Diaw comes to mind as the last guy who couldn’t play for Woody but could play for a good team), then he seems like an obvious, and attractive, trade asset. Of course Billy would have to come out of his coma to do anything about it. Maybe Billy can trade Joe, Zaza, and our next 2 first round draft picks (that’d be ‘09 and ‘10, since we don’t have one this summer) to Phoenix for Diaw and Brian Skinner.

-Lakers? Good thing Kobe isn’t the GM. But how well they maintain without Bynum is a big question mark. Seems like Kwame Brown needs an intervention from Dr. Phil (or whatever drugs Britney Spears takes to make her believe she’s still a star).

-Yes, but out of Detroit, Orlando, Portland and Atlanta, am I the only one who hears the old Sesame Street song, “One of these things (teams) just doesn’t belong here. One of these things (Hawks) just doesn’t seem right”?

-Would we really win big if we acquired JJ Reddick, Damon Jones, Kyle Korver and other good set shooter? Why don’t we look to acquire Salim Stoudamire? Where is he playing these days?

-I feel the need to repeat myself (boy, there’s a shocker) in pointing out the irony that DraftExpress projects that the Suns will draft Tyler Hansbrough with the first round pick we’re giving them to finalize the Joe Johnson swindle. I can’t quit snickering over the idea that Billy would have used that pick to draft yet another overrated ACC forward from the research triangle.

-Since it’s clear that Shelden is never going to play here, is it to late to convince some other team that he’s really great, but in the unfortunate position of playing (or not to be literal) behind 3 or 4 future hall-of-famers? If I was Billy, I’d call all the other teams and shop Shelden with the pitch being, “Look how good Diaw was after we traded him. And Diaw wasn’t even a lottery pick, so you know Shelden is going to blow up since we used the fifth overall pick on him!” Yeah, I know, that’s looks even more stupid in print than it sounded when I was just thinking it.

-It’s very frustrating knowing that the Spirit have to keep up the facade of this team “moving in the right direction”, by making no changes, as it would be an implicit acknowledgment that we are, in fact, spinning our wheels. The positive evolution of this team is the biggest lie perpetrated on the citizens of Atlanta since Sherman said, “Not to worry, we’re all out of matches”…….

It wouldn’t be so painful if this hadn’t been so utterly predictable over the last few years.

I’m out like a coherent half-court set during an Atlanta Hawks game………

By MJ3

January 22, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

Ando:

Maybe Billy can trade Joe, Zaza, and our next 2 first round draft picks (that’d be ‘09 and ‘10, since we don’t have one this summer) to Phoenix for Diaw and Brian Skinner.

Lord, I hope that’s a bad joke…

And how can you call the Johnson trade a swindle? We got an All-Star who still is only 26 years old, and all we gave up was a now-25 year old swingman and a mid-first round pick. Even if the ping pong balls hadn’t gone our way last year, the deal is still a good one for the Hawks because we would have gotten an All-Star in exchange a serviceable player and two good but not phenomenal draft picks. Maybe he could have gotten better (won’t argue with that), but acquiring JJ gave the Hawks the best player the Hawks have had since #21.

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 22, 2008 2:52 AM | Link to this

If Zaza is as done as he seems on this franchise (Boris Diaw comes to mind as the last guy who couldn’t play for Woody but could play for a good team), then he seems like an obvious, and attractive, trade asset. Of course Billy would have to come out of his coma to do anything about it. Maybe Billy can trade Joe, Zaza, and our next 2 first round draft picks (that’d be ‘09 and ‘10, since we don’t have one this summer) to Phoenix for Diaw and Brian Skinner.

I’m no fan of Billy Knight. But if you are seriously going to continue trashing the Joe Johnson trade, you are really drunk off the Hatorade. Boris Diaw is currently averaging 7 points, 4 boards, and 3 assists per game. If that contribution would be so essential to the Hawks right now, they should go sign Chris Webber, who will get them nearly double that. Diaw sucked here, and he sucks slightly less in Phoenix because of Steve Nash. Period. In Diaw’s one “good” year, he was running pick-and-rolls with Nash in place of the injured Amare. Even Zaza could average a solid 15 and 10 playing that role. The Hawks traded Soft, Crappy, Overrated Euro #3434089085028 for a legitimate star. Maybe they gave up one draft pick too many. But that is not a bad trade, no matter how you slice it.

-AJ could have avoided this incident if Billy Knight had aggressively sought out the acquisition of Calderon about 2 years ago, when I first suggested it, and before he became the one of the hottest free agent targets of the upcoming summer

The Hawks can still aggressively seek to acquire Jose Calderon before he becomes a hot free agent target. Only now his name is Sergio Rodriguez and he plays for Portland.

By Peter

January 22, 2008 5:35 AM | Link to this

I like Sergio Rodriguez he was definitely on point on monday. Jarrett Jack was very good too.

Portland could have upto 16-24 players in the fold next season. They currently have 7 unsigned picks from previous seasons one of which named Rudy Fernandez who they are supposedly in love with his game. They also have Greg Oden and 2 picks in the 2008 NBA draft.

It would be in the Hawks favor to make some calls. They are going to need to make room for some guys.

Beno Udrih is another guy worth looking into getting.

As for the Portland game Woodson has completely strayed away from what has got him to this point. He is gripping and not trusting his entire team. He does not play West the way he used too for that added defensive punch. And I still don’t guy why Salim is pinned to the bench.

I would not be surprised if Woodson is fired by the end of January. However, this is the Atlanta Spirit Bernie Mullin might end up coaching.

By G-thang

January 22, 2008 8:07 AM | Link to this

the hawks are 17-20, they have 53 more games to play. they will not win 35 games!! And will not make the playoffs!! Look at these facts: 1. Hawks were 4th in the East a month ago, now they are 10th. 2. Charlotte was doing awful, they are 1 game behind the hawks. 3. Washington was 0-5 in the beginning, they have surpassed the hawks. 4. Chicago, as bad as they were are 1 game behind the hawks. 5. New York will finish with a better record than the hawks. The hawks are a team in dissarray. Woody and Billy should be fired!! The team is going into the tank. Phoenix is really loving that JJ trade now. Phoenix will get a top 10pick, as if they needed one.

By JohnGTFan

January 22, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Doesn’t take much in ATL for fans to start throwing in the towel. I have not lost faith in this team…not yet. What I still don’t have (never have) is faith in the coach. I honestly believe, at a minimum, Woodson has cost this team 4 wins….instead of 17 - 20, that would be 21 - 16. What a difference!!!!! He seriously has to go. I almost don’t care who the coach would be to finish the season, but Woodson has to go. His ignorance and stubborness has more than passed it’s due. Also, why is ZaZa even allowed to come into the game. He is soooooo awful. I’d rather see Sheldon get the minutes that that waste.

Oh well, still keeping my faith…be improving everyday if Woodson would get fired…just don’t see it happening.

By Astro Joe

January 22, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Good column by Bradley. I watched the last few minutes of the OT last night. McMillan is truly a great coach. He gave Outlaw the chance to step up and win the game while knowing that if he missed the shot, they would go into another OT period. So Outlaw leaves the arena brimming with confidence and the Blazers likely have another player who has “graduated” from young with potential to productive and confident.

That’s where our coach has failed. We haven’t been able to get our guys over that same threshold. They are still young in heart and mind. Immature, uncertain, tentative, partially prepared, emotionally insecure, not ready for prime time. When I look at Portland, I see a bunch of guys who are more than just capable ball players, they are confident and assured of themselves. That doesn’t come from draft picks or free agent contracts, that comes from coaching. It’s what we see in the Patriots, the comfort of knowing that you are prepared for whatever is going to happen. It’s the difference I see between the football teams at UGA and Tech. Sure UGA has better athletes but they also appear to be extremely confident in their preparedness for the game. Tech players always look like they know something bad is going to happen in a big game and of course, it almost always does.

That’s what you see from great coaches in every team sport. The ability to instill a belief that plans A, B & C will result in both team AND individual success.

Bloggers are enraged with the recent string of losses (8 of 11). For some reason, it doesn’t bother me. Maybe because I am delusional in believing that this west coast trip is what this team needs. What I know will frustrate me to no end is when we see another playoff wannabe make a smart trade in the next few weeks. When the Wizards or Nets or heaven-forbid Bobcats make a move to improve their chances at the postseason. And we hear nothing from BK, Bernie or Gearon. When we stand pat while all around look to get better, that is when I know I will lose my last 3 hairs. Losing is bad, not seeking to compete (by fixing existing holes) is inexcusable.

By terrell barron

January 22, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

Gthang, where are you getting your information?

By terrell barron

January 22, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

There are currently 8 teams in the East with a worse record. New Jersey, New York, Milwaukee, Chicago, Miami, Charlotte, Indiana, and Philly. So how in the world are we 10th in the East, when there are only 15 teams total. PLEASE EXPLAIN!

By smartguy

January 22, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Add Zaza to Woody’s list of people he can’t get along with. I personally think Zaza has been terrible of late, but nonetheless, we have a coach who can’t get along with anyone. Smooth, Marvin, Salim, Solo, Shelden, AJ, Zaza, and several assistants. Whats it gonna take?? Well, at least Woody’s winning percentage is finally above 30%. Spirit and the Gearon goons suck.

Fire Woody and watch the Hawks soar!

By SSI Fan

January 22, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

Before the game yesterday I had wondered if the Hawks could trade J. Smith, Marvin, and Zaza for Aldridge, Travis Outlaw, and Jack. After watching the game I know Portland would never make that trade.

The sad thing for the Hawks is not that, on draft day, Knight thought Childress was better than Deng, that Marvin was a bigger need than Paul or Deron williams, that Shelden was a player but that he continues to over estimate the abilities of the players on the Hawks. I am convinced that there will be no meaningful trade because of a lack of objectivity in evaluating the talent on the Hawks roster.

I agree that despite the youth on the team this is a team built for mediocrity. How do they acquire a quality big man and a quality point guard? Not through the draft and what quality unrestricted free agent would agree to come to Atlanta (even if the owners had the money to pay for one)?

By terrell barron

January 22, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Gthang the Hawks are 17-20. You’re right about that. But 53 games left? Lets see, 17+20=37 and 37+53=90. Am I missing something here?

By Tiger Woo

January 22, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Hey G-thang,

The Hawks are currently the 7th seed in the East - they are 2 1/2 games ahead of Chicago and 3 games ahead of Charlotte.

By randy

January 22, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

I don’t know why anyone would complain about AJ sitting out, he certainly wouldn’t have added anything. Acie actually did pretty good and I thought he should have played more then he did in the second half. I thought Marvin played horrendous and really shouldn’t have been on the floor that second half. The whole 2nd half was mismanaged by Woodson really.

Start Acie and bring TLue off the bench. If I have to watch AJ out there anymore, god forbid but I might have to start watching American Idol. He is a thug and bores me to tears!

SAME OL’ HAWKS! FIRE BILLY, WOODY, AND RUN THE SPIRIT OUT OF TOWN!!

By randy

January 22, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

CHEAP ATLANTA SPIRIT + INCOMPETENT GM + LOUSY COACH = SAME OL’ HAWKS

Look on the bright side, we don’t have to worry about BK screwing up our draft picks for the next 2 years.

By Willie Coyote

January 22, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Astro, your comments on Woody and the comparison between the Bulldogs and my Jackets was dead on.

Talented teams (Hawks, Tech) will win some games and beat some teams that they aren’t supposed to. Poorly coached (Hawks, Tech) will be inconsistent at best and will lack preparation, effort, composure, and/or mental toughness on any given night.

Acie doesn’t seem to be allowed to play the way that made him successful in college, Salim and Solomon are just not allowed to play. Zaza doesn’t need to play and Shelden should not have been drafted #5 if he were just going to sit on the bench like this (that one is on BK though).

By Hawk fan since Zelmo

January 22, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

We NEED a coach. Where is Salim when we need points? Where was Acie when we needed direction at the end of the game? I just sufferred through another Hawk loss where we were totally outcoached. The past few years I have made excuses for Mike Woodson. I’ve said that he had limited talent, that he had to learn to be a head coach - this being his first opportunity, etc. However, this year - and today in particular - have caused me to give up on Mike. All year he has squandered away our best pure shooter, Salim Stoudamire, and best ball handler, Acie Law, while player NBA re-treads Tyronne Lue and Anthony Johnson play. Obviously, he is trying to win now with the veterans and not allowing our talented younger players to develop at the guard position.

Today I knew that with Johnson suspended, Woodson would have to play Law. Since I was off for the holiday, I decided to watch the entire game for a change (usually I just watch until I get disgusted with the inability of our team to have any direction and/or consistency). Law did start and played brilliantly while in the game: 3 for 4 from the floor, 5 rebounds, 5 assists and 0 turnovers. AND he did this in only 19 minutes of play because the coach didn’t need this kind of production or leadership on the floor. This team has no consistency because the coach will not allow it. From game to game no one ever knows how many minutes they will get and when they will get them. The only player we can be certain about is Joe Johnson. Obviously, Joe is our best player and deserves accolades for carrying this team. But the coach is going to kill him - playing 40.9 minutes per game.

Bottom line is that we will not win consistently with retread veterans running the point and our good young players can’t get experience and develop sitting on the bench. We need to win or lose with our future.

By Greg

January 22, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Dude please don’t blame, this mess on Woody the only reason they are even close is because of Woody. The real culprit BK. This team just is a bad mix. We have too many guys playing out of position. JSmooth & Al are out of position, and Woody is playing what he has. We still get killed for the same reasons as the other two season Low post defense and rebounding. The only teams that win championship are teams that let ppl play where they are supposed to, SA, Miami, LA, & Det. Those are teams that win consistently.

By terrell barron

January 22, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Like I said before, BK has his hands tied behind his back. Yeah, he’s made some bad decisions, but the hiring of Woody has to be his worse move yet. He’s missed on some great players, but this team has talent. None of you can dispute that. But they seem to be playing for a guy who couldnt coach elementary kids without having an argument. Who callstowhenthere own team has just made a steal and are on a fast break? Who takes out a guy after he just hit 3 3ptrs IN A ROW? Who sits a young pg down for basically the rest of the game, after he was having one of his best performances in a long time? Who tries to initiate a halfcourt offense, when a team is built to run? Who continues to leave an outside scoring threat on the bench, when JJ is getting doubled? Who continues not to play his only 2 legit 6-11 7 ft guys, when its obvious that they should be in the game helping Al out in the paint? Come on guys, we all know who’s the real problem.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

January 22, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

I imagine Sekou tried to preempt the “throw in the towel speaches” by saying that you can’t extrapolate anything about this squad from one game/stretch to the next. That said however through the inconsistencies in play, there has been a dubious consistency in deficiencies (yeah i know, awkwardly phrased).

Call me crazy, but I think we might be able to “get by” without acquiring another PG (not that I wouldnt want to see it happen, just saying). Law looked good in spots, AJ will be back, and Lue is ‘ok’ in a spot play role. What we cannot do without however is the same thing listed above (and what I’ve been saying humbly for a while) is A SHOOTER.

Did anyone notice last game much of the reason for us keeping it close, until Joe showed up, was the shooting of T Lue? It forced Portland to stretch out their zone and enabled Smoov and company to get more boards. This is and has always been Lue’s value to the squad (and what we all wish Woody would trust Salim to do).

Anyone who has actually watched the Hawks this season would note, this in not a new phenomenon. It happened vs Indy, Toronto, Washington, etc. Get a guard who can penetrate, then watch him kick to a wing player who can hoist. This is in part because of our flawed rotation on D- sidenote: watch how often the man who jacks is the open J is Duck’s responsibility. He doesnt rebound like he should, doesnt defend like he should. I like him, really, but man it’s painful to watch Back to the topic…. What a shooter does for us is exactly what happened when T Lue hit those shots, rebounding opportunities, slashing opps, relief on JJ to make and Smoov to hoist. Most importantly however it gives us an opportunity to answer runs with scoring opps of our own. It was good to see the call/response of the long ball vs Portland. A team needs that to stave off droughts emotionally and on the scoreboard.

Bottom line is that now “healthy” Salim has GOT to get minutes (13-17) to do what he does. All great/good/competitive teams have a role players in order to succeed. We HAVE to acquire one somehow. I actually do think a package of Sheldon or Zaza and a 2nd (I know it our only pick and surrenders a big, but gotta make moves) would net a decent shot to help us grow. We can actually “get by” this season without adding a big much easier than without someone who can stroke. Season far from over, but close to maddening…

By terrell barron

January 22, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

Miami? Since when did they win consistently? They won a fluke Championship last year. THATS IT!

By terrell barron

January 22, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Is Eddie House that much better than Salim? Look what he does for Boston.

By Melvin

January 22, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Bernie resign. Hopefully Woody will get the the ax soon….

By terrell barron

January 22, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

I meant 2 yrs ago. Spurs won it last year.

By Dan

January 22, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Bernie resigning means NOTHING for Billy and Woody. This has been several months coming. Billy and Waddell didn’t talk to Bernie, they just went straight to the owners. It’ll be business as usual for Atlanta.

By Dr. Tobias Funke

January 22, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Anyone know who the greasy-haired fat dude is on the Hawks’ bench? He’s always carrying a clipboard and wearing an ill-fitting cheap suit.

By CJYnColumbus

January 22, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

I thought the crowd was good yesterday. I thought Acie, JSmoove, JChill, The Closer and Joe played their hearts out. Marvin appears to not want the ball in crucial moments and other players get confidence when he is guarding them. Outlaw was at SF but Woody had Josh or Joe on him - for good reason. Here’s hoping Marvin can keep getting better.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 22, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

G-THANG you are starting to sound like ANDO…. are you a fan of the team or do you just come here to hate. Let me be clear on this- Are you sayn the hawks wont win 18 more games the entire season—- IF so put your money where your mouth is. Ill match whatever you want to throw down,big or small wager doesnt matter to me.

Teams are a direct reflection of their coach-thats why Portland wins and doesnt just give away games -Mcmillian is force that drives those guys. We have Woody ??? who cant get along with players and does’nt have a clue when it comes to X’s and O’s.

This is why we lose close games and cant close teams out.I dont want to put all the blame on woody but he is 75% responsible. How many times must we see JJ in an isolation with the game on the line- JJ for a fade away jumper -EVERY DAM TIME-its not hard to stop a team when you know their plays…Dam Shame

ZAZA is a big Euro puzzy…. Woody was right on that call send his but to the showers. He should’nt be playing right now he looks awful. No rebounds,defense or anything-what are you mad about -start producing and see your minutes increase, until then ride the pine with Shellz and shut up. Marvin-when his shot is off he does’nt do anything else.Ive been yelling that for a minute now. Trade JS-thats really a joke, we all know who needs to be traded and resigned -its obvious.

Patrick O’bryant is worth looking into- 7’1 long athletic guy. I think he will become close to what T Chandler is right now.

Marvin/ZAZA/LO for P.Obryant/M.Ellis

This would be good for us if GS would do it.

By Tiger Woo

January 22, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Hey I.MUS WRITE,

Golden State is not about to trade Monta Ellis, especially for what amounts to a Marvin for Ellis swap with a garbage throw-in (ZAZA/LO).

By Floze

January 22, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Bernie Mullen has figured something out that we as Hawks fan should take note of - the ownership group is impotent, fractured, and broken.

I read every one of these posts talking about trading this person or firing Woody - the hawks can do none of these things due to their ownership group. With the Belkin lawsuit hanging overhead the ASG are fractured in what they should do - so they do nothing. They are governed now by the minimum criteria that an NBA franchise has to contractually abide by to merely exist without getting fined.

Without resolution of the ownership crisis - everything else is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

By randy

January 22, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Did Woody call that timeout during our fastbreak??

By mountain jim

January 22, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

After watching yesterday’s game, I am ready to trade Marvin or replace Woody with someone who can motivate him to become more agressive.

Time to replace Woody! Please. Josh Smith is about to blow up over how Woody continually mismanages this team and talent.

After watching Roy practially equal JJ yesterday, while our #5 pick Shelden sat unused at the end of the bench, I am ready to fire Billy also. I believe it was Woody’s desire to draft him and BK went along, but what a terrible pick that was and most here knew it at the time.

Fire Woody before the end of January or this season is toast!

And if BK is unwilling to trade and improve this team now, he should be fired also!

If ASG ownership will not allow team improvement, BK should tell us so!

By mykhalc

January 22, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

randy, yes WOODSON called that timeout after JS’ steal!!!!

Tiger Woo, you are right. GS is not about to give up Monte Ellis. he is a big part of NELLIE ball out here. and especially not gonna give him up for the package someone just posted!!!!

i only hope that MULLINS leavin’ means SOMETHIN’ in regards to WOODSON bein’ next!!! let DREW coach the team the rest of the year!! WOODSON really out did himself with that timeout call!! RIDICULOUS!!!!!!

By HawksFan

January 22, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

FIRE WOODY AND BILLY

AND GOOD RIDDANCE BERNIE!!

By adam

January 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

fire billy knightmare

By Northwest Dawg

January 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Here’s what really has to hurt for Hawks fans: Portland is over a year behind Atlanta in their rebuilding process and Oden isn’t even playing- just pathetic when you think about it. Of course, the Blazers have Kevin Pritchard making personnel decisions and Nate McMillan making coaching decisions.

By Rick

January 22, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Please fire Woody and BK. I mean really, how many of us would continue to have jobs when we consistently underperform as these two clowns??

By Bored

January 22, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

I must admit the greasy haired fat dude on the bench is a mess. Also, who was the player on the bench yesterday in a suit and pink shirt. Dude looks like he is 12 years old. More important: we need an owner, gm and coach. sad scene.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 22, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

`TYGER-I know they wont trade Monte for a one deminisional Marvin. I wouldnt do it either. BK might though-if Monte was here and Marv in GS he would do it all day-WHY -because Marvin is 6’9

I would try to get Patrick O- in the off season though,, I think he is an unrestricted free agent.

Acie Law had a good game yesterday-maybe he is reading this blog along with Woody. One game does’nt mean alot but I hope the yung’n has awaken and is ready to bring it….. Just when I start bashing the dude he plays big. G`THANG whass up with that wager i sure would like to get your money Mr.season ticket holder 217a right….LOL

By I.MUS WRITE

January 22, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

MYHAC - AM I THAT SUMONE BRO. IF SO -YOU AIENT GOTTA TIP TOE IM A BIG BOI. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN EMPLOYED WITH GOLDEN STATE AS A GM-…. AHHHM HELL TO THE NO, SO HOW CAN YOU ABSOLUTELY SAY WHAT THEY WILL AND WONT TAKE. IT WAS A SUGGESTION JUST LIKE THE OTHER 300 SUGGESTIONS POSTED THROUGHOUT THE DAY.

READ MY POST FROM YESTERDAY-THERE ARE’NT GOING TO BE ANY TRADES-AND NO I DONT WORK FOR THE ASG -IM GOING OFF WHATS HAPPENED HERE SINCE 04….

By Lil E

January 22, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, now that Mullin is gone, does that mean the ownership situation is closer to being resolved ?

By JohnGTFan

January 22, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Hey…it’s a start. One of the Spirit idiots has resigned.

By mykhalc

January 22, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

I.MUS, too funny man. i did not address you ‘cause i did not feel like goin’ back in the blog to see who said it. and we all are big boyz on the blog, so no tip toe needed!!LOL we all throw up whatever we are feelin’ on here. and ‘cause i live in san fran i get to see all the games and how much ELLIS is a part of this thing out here. that was my main point…PERIOD!!! it’s all good man!!!

glad ACIE slowed your roll for a game too!!LOL let’s hope he gets the chance to continue and continues to step up!!!!

By Ramon

January 22, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Northwestdawg, you must be forgetting something about the Blazers, because your post is one sided. You fail to mention that Portland has ONE owner who doesn’t have to go through lawyers to make moves happen. Also you forget that this SAME Blazers owner has never been shy to open up his wallet and spend. You also failed to state the fact that the Hawks can’t spend like the former Portland Jailers can because of court orders.

Nate McMillan is a way better coach than Woody. But to say their GM has done a better job than BK would be something that has no merit. Anyone could’ve drafted Oden with the #1 pick how hard was that decision?

If you don’t remember, this same GM also decided to paid Darius Miles a maxed out contract ( along with Randolph who isn’t even there). The Hawks has just as much talent as the Blazers have, they just don’t have a coach who uses the pieces right.

Also if you don’t remember, the Blazers didn’t WANT Roy when they drafted him. The entire month before they were trying their best to move UP in their draft and get Tyrus. They ‘SETTLED’ for Roy when he fell because of him being from the Northwest. They drafted him to play PG, BK signed JJ to play PG, but neither worked out well.

So please the next time you want to make an opinionated statement as if its fact, please present the ENTIRE case, not just one sided.

By the way, Woody makes 1/3rd of what Nate makes. Theres NO WAY, in this position the ownership could fire Woody and still sign a coach who makes twice as much as him while the court battle continues.

By ILL-logical

January 22, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

(For all of you old school folks out there) In the words of Tony Hester/The Dramatics: What you see is what you get!

There wll not be any trades but there might be a coaching change by the end of the road trip.The franchise is in crisis and there is nothing anyone in the current mix can/will do about it.

So fantasize all you want; ain’t nothing going to change untill we get some folks with some change.

By roan st

January 22, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

I’ve been telling folks on here that marvin is a bust but got blasted for it. Now I think some of you are beginning to see the light. He’s tenative on the offensive end and a terrible defender on the other end. And he is soooo overrated when it comes to athletic ability. He looks so clumsy to me it ain’t even funny. People used to talk about his tremendous upside but I just don’t see it. I think Marvin is 15pt 6reb guy who will be a defensive liability. He’s a huge mistake when you consider the fact that the hawks had their pick of two future all-star point guards. Now if the hawks were set at the point and desperately needed a small forward it would be easy to justify the pick. But…..

By randy

January 22, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Ramon, that maybe true to some extent, but:

BUT the biggest bombshell he ever made, was hiring WOODY AS COACH!!

So please, stop the excuses for him. The guy is a LOSER as Trump would say.

By confused

January 22, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Ramon, you are dead wrong. The blazers drafted Tyrus Thomas and instantly traded him for who the wanted, Lamarcus. Also, when the two teams the where sandwiched around them in the draft made a deal to swap players to get Roy, the blazers drafted Foye so they could make the trade instead. Also, different GM gave Darius the max contract. You have no clue. Plus, there is a salary cap, so how much money an owner will shell out only applies to players you already have under contract. Figure it out.

By randy

January 22, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Marvin is a clumsy mess. The dude is SOFT, I see him getting blocked by guards that are 5 inches shorter than him. When Marvin drives, you know the ball is gonna land in the 3rd row. I think the refs feel sorry for him and give him a foul.. Only decent thing about him is his jumpshot.

By Northwest Dawg

January 22, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Ramon, What are talking about? All you did was offer excuses. Like I said, sad. Also, you are completely wrong about the Aldridge/Roy draft. Blazers never wanted Tyrus Thomas. LaMarcus was always their target from day 1 and they got Roy as well. I apologize that this worked out for the Blazers and so little ever works out for Billy Knight. As for Roy not working out as a PG- he plays both guard positions throughout the game (and occasionally some 3) and is usually the primary ball handler in the 4th quarter- throw in rookie of the year and I’m not sure how that isn’t working out. He will play even more pg in the next few years when the Blazers add Oden and Rudy Fernandez to their lineup. The Hawks do have a messed up ownership situation but do you honestly think Billy Knight is even a decent GM?

By cp

January 22, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Mike ” Greg Knapp” Woodson is a joke. This guy playbook can’t be no more than 2 pages. Every game it is the same plays, no adjustments, and silly substition patterns. Guys will play well one game and not be seen for the next week. Guys will be having a great game and will be substited only not to be put back in. How do you take Acie out after he was looking so good to put in JChill who did nothing when he was on the court?. At this point Drew cant be any worse than Mike ‘Greg Knapp’ Woodson. This guy has no type of offensive gameplan. Add in the fact that he cant get along with players and you wonder if he has some photos of the owners and BK that he is using for leverage because any other coach would have been gone a long time ago. With this broke ownership im guessing we are stuck with Mike Knapp and Billy” Isiah Thomas’ Knight. Like it was said earlier, we probaby wont make any moves to make this a competitive team. I dont know if Marvin is looking like an average player at best because of coaching or because the guy just does not have it in him. I would hate to trade him then he turns out to be a star but id hate it more if he turns out to be what he is now and thas pretty much a spot up shooter who does nothing else. Knowing Billy Knight he wont trade the kid as long as he is gm. Sheldon Williams girlfriend is a better ballplayer than him . Tell me again what did BK see in this kid to take him at number 5. FIRE BK WOODY AND THE WHOLE SPIRIT GROUP.

By BlazerFan

January 22, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Ramon,

You are dead on about your assessment of the ownership situations and Paul Allen has certainly made a number of mistakes over the years, but at least he’s been willing to put the money out there to compete.

As for you remarks about the Blazer GM, I think you need to get your facts straight. Kevin Pritchard became the GM last year and was responsible for the 2006 draft. He had nothing to do with the Randolph and Miles signings.

Now to you comments on the 06 draft. Portland had the #4 pick, put actually traded up to #2 becuase they did not want Tyrus Thomas. Pritchard was then able to pick up the #7 from the Celtics for Sebastin Telfair so they could pick Roy. When word got out that Houston was trying to jump up to #6 in order to get Roy, Pritchard made the deal with Minny to ensure Portland got Roy at #6.

What has Billy Knight done in comparison? All you have to do look back at the Players Atlanta could have.

I’m not saying Pritchard is the best GM out there, but his decisions sure look a lot better than Knight’s on draft night.

By abdelnaby

January 22, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Ramon: I’m just passing through, but I thought you might want to know: Portland GM Kevin Pritchard didn’t pay Zach Randolph or Darius Miles their big contracts—that was his predecessor, John Nash (who was a pretty bad GM, it’s true). Pritchard did in fact want Roy pretty badly, going so far as to pay Minnesota $1M in the Roy for Foye swap to get him (and to break up the same Roy/Foye trade that Houston was about to pull off). Also, Portland didn’t have to move up in the draft to get Tyrus Thomas—they drafted him with the 4th pick. Rather, TT was their bargaining chip to move up and acquire their actual target, Lamarcus Aldridge. Finally, the jury is out thus far on whether Roy was drafted to play PG—but so far, considering that he handles the ball in the fourth like a PG, has lead his team to a winning record, and is under All-Star and MVP consideration, I would say that it is working out pretty well.

Just wanted to put that out there, since you are a guy who doesn’t like seeing opinionated statement presented as if it were fact.

By Andy

January 22, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

We need a shake up somewhere. The young guys we draft really don’t get to play enough to develop. Salim, Acie, Solomon, and Shelden ride the pine more often than not. They need in game experience to develop further. Old unmotivated veterans have not added spark so we need to change it up. In one game we were getting destroyed by 30 plus points. We put in the younger guys and they bring us back within 9. What’s up with that?? Look at Portland. Young players who are allowed to play and develop in game experience. Now they are kickin butt. Bad move on Sonics to get rid of McMillan.

By Astro Joe

January 22, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Portland has a very supportive owner, we don’t. They traded Randolph for Frye & Stevie Francis, while all along kmowing they would buyout Francis. I don’t know how much they paid him, but can anyone imagine our owners buying out a player for more than the cost of a Whopper Jr. combo meal? Think of all of the buyouts across this league. That serves as a delete key, “I’ll pay you to get the heck off my team”. Most teams would buyout Speedy and use that roster spot for a needed asset. (He could even use the team’s facilities to rehab but we need that roster spot). Our owners are sitting at the mailbox every month waiting for th insurance check to come in. And do we see any of that insurance money coming back in the form of an acquisition? Not yet and likely, not at all.

By randy

January 22, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

The Atlanta Spirit is a broken down organization. Billy Knightmare and Waddel now report to 7 different guys. I wish Belkin would take over and kick these penny-pinching morons out of town. Anything is better than the Atlanta Spirit. I only hope firing the CEO was a sign they are trying to cuts costs, which mean bankruptsy might be around the corner.

By Kelvin

January 22, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Can we trade Marvin Williams for Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Yeah, that’s right! I still haven’t gotten over that draft! Thanks Billy, and btw, who ever heard of a GM that refuses to do interviews or go on sports talk radio to answer questions from the fans? There aren’t many cities where a GM could get away with something like that, but Atlanta appears to be one of them.

By Ben

January 22, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

LOL I just read some amazing posts here.

Randy and cp: LOL

Trade Marv, ZaZa + Lue for Gasol

Get Jamal Tatum

Release Salim, trade Shelden for a new towelboy.

Playoffs.

By HB Ando

January 22, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Poop and MJ3, I think my sarcasm was lost on both of you. Those points were jokes to point out just how clueless Billy really is. I’ll write slower next time, if you think it will help…….

By smartguy

January 22, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

How dumb do they think we are?? Gearon says that its not a cost-cutting move, but that it will make the organization more efficient. Thats what you call an oxymoron, from a moron.

Mr. Gearon, the last thing we the fans want is for you to have any more influence on our team. The fact that Woody is still our coach, along with your reputation for being an extraordinarily cheap NBA owner gives me NO confidence in your, or any of your goofballs, ability to help the Hawks. If you really want whats best for the team and the city, you should sell the team, or at the very least, let it operate without you.

By oldmike

January 22, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

This team should be running up and down the floor hoisting up threes like the old Pitino (Knicks, BC) teams did. A halfcourt offense doesn’t suit an athletic team with no point guard. How many freakin’ games have we lost, leads have we blown while the ball is in our “All Stars” hands at the end of games. JJ is a great player but he is so much better when someone gets him the ball in position than when he tries to create his shot against double and triple teams.

By roan st

January 22, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Ramon, you better do a little more research if you’re going to debate on this blog. Unlike the falcons blog, where people are clueless, these folks on here know their stuff. Trying to defend billy knight is an excercise in futility. The man has made some poor decisions that are inexcusable. The situation with the spirit group may have affected his ability in free agency but that doesn’t give him a free pass on his draft day blunders.

By Astro Joe

January 22, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

I’m not a big Bernie fan but my guess is that he has a resume that will allow him to land safely (and quickly) someplace else. So he’s a rat that was smart enough to jump off the ship. That suggests, to me, that if the ASG wins the battle we are still looking at a fair degree of incompetence. And no, I’m not a bit surprised, as they royally botched the initial appraisal process.

By Moe Dirty

January 22, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Mike Woodson I’m going to help you out.If you do not use my starting five you will be FIRED. Anthony Jhonson or Ace Law PG,Mario West- shooting gard,J Jhonson- small forward,Josh Smith -power forward,Al Holfort- center,This is my starting five.Marvin Williams is out of basketball shape.Please make him sleep in the gym.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 22, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

OUUUUCH Kelvin- That is painfully true. Bk does’nt do interviews and the fans are left to assume and speculate. This is terrible -once again itz hard being a fan in the ATL. I could just imagine him in San Antonio or Dallas-those fans would be outside his door demanding answers or his head. Thank god we have Sekou- if not for him you probably would’nt know Atlanta had a Basketball team—-SAD

By rainman

January 22, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

How can a guy that drafted sheldon Fifth still have a job. Oh yea he’s black so we cant fire him at the risk of the brothers burning down the ATL.

By cp

January 22, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Please leave that race crap over at the Falcons blog. We have great discussions here that dont revolve around the race baiting and name calling .

By doc

January 22, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

floze where have you benn? for over a year or more i have called the ownership group the broken atlanta spirit and have never had anyone disagree with it or try to argue differently. to a person we all on this blog see what is there and what is not.

the problem with this organization is not bernie mullins nor the organizational chart. my crusade to point out the issue began when we were in the 2 and 15 start of two year ago. hopefully the rope will be pulled tighter and eventually changes made to move it forward but this is not the answer.

roan st; agree, i tried to rationalize away some of the maneuvers but after a while the stupidity of it left me wordless. there was no room for error for woody or bk because of the ownership issue and gave them the benefit of the doubt but the continued largess of the ignorance somehow has to be seen and held accountable.

see intolerance still thrives among the smallest (minds) of bloggers and is just as backward and ignorant as the ownership of the hawks.

By terrell barron

January 22, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

I just heard Prizbilla’s name mentioned in trade rumors on NBA Fastbreak. Better get on the phone Billy. We could use him.

By ray

January 22, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

Joe, it’s all good. I maintain my feeling that we are still in rebuild mode (therefore no need to re-rebuild, when you haven’t finished). The “delete key” is where I have the problem. Seems like damn near every other franchise that’s made such bad moves has made others to either correct or make up for them. Except us. Just watch Chicago. They overpaid for big Ben, and it’s costing them big time. They let Aldridge go for Tyrus Thomas. Paxson has got to have a sore leg from kicking himself on that one. And yet…I have no doubts that they’ll make a move that will solve their more serious problems.

The idea that no moves will be made here is not a new one. Not by far. And you’re right: Bernie’s departure may be exactly what it looks like. A rat leaving a sinking or already sunken ship. Then again, what if it’s NOT what it looks like? What if Mullin was a Billy supporter? You know what it really smells like to me? The same thing it’s always been…

Too many cooks in the kitchen. Too many different recipes. Question is, will this get better or worse? Does this mean a change in coaching and management? Or not..It may be business as usual and nothing else to report. We’ll see, sooner or later.

By ray

January 22, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Then again maybe Bernie left because he was sick of Billy Knight. And knew that the other owners couldn’t see that he’s an idiot.

Hell, I don’t know. I’m just stirring up sh!t now…

By Astro Joe

January 22, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Ray, I think BK is doing exactly what his bosses truly want him to do at this stage… improve the team without spending money. While he could have done better with draft picks, can they really expect to hire a GM who would be willing to operate under Donald Sterling-like conditions? When they look at their balance sheet what do they likely see over the past 3 years, likely an increase in revenue while expenses are farily constant. Do you fire a guy who improves margin year-over-year? According to a long-time blog contributor, BK obediently threw the straw on the camel’s back by completing the JJ transaction. Do you fire someone who flawlessly executes the business plan? And what does the win trend line look like? 13. 26. 30. 38-40?

So let’s review. Margin is up. Business plan is executed. And the team’s record improves every year. From the perspective of the owners, is there a problem?

By terrell barron

January 22, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

Lakers signed center CJ Mbenga to 10-day contract. I guess there are some big bodies out there. Anybody Seen him play?

By terrell barron

January 22, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

Astro, your’re right. As long as the ownership thing is going on BK is going to be here. Everyone might as well get use to that. The guy came in here and built this team from scratch. Imagine where we would be if Babcock was still here. He had a 4 YR PLAN. This is the 4th yr. If we dont make the playoffs, you can call him a failure. Until then …. Everyone acts as if we should be a championship caliber team. Even if he had made all the selections that everyone wanted, we still would be 4, 5, 6, tops in the East. If Chris Paul was in this lineup minus Marvin AND HORFORD we would still be fighting for a playoff spot, just like we are now. We still would’nt have a big man in the paint and we’d still have a clueless coach.

By HB Ando

January 22, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

I just want to make sure I’m not misunderstanding what I just read: Did Astro Joe really say that Billy Knight has “flawlessly execute[d] the business plan”?

Though there have been some extraordinarily ridiculous comments on this blog, over the prior 3 1/2 years, this one, given that Joe has better sense than most of the transients that come and go, takes the all-time cake.

Joe, that comment singularly guarantees your permanent ownership of the FedEx crown (no, we do not get French benefits).

There is not a single business related component to his repeated drafting mistakes. And, for what seems like the millionth time, I find myself having to correct Joe’s mis-characterization of the sequence of events, as they relate to the Joe Johnson signing. The comment made to me, as well as another long-standing blog member, and season ticket holder, DID NOT describe Billy’s decision to unnecessarily add Diaw and two firsts to the Johnson deal, as a means of forcing a palace coup. Rather, the explanation was such that the realization that Belkin, in his designated role as having final say on such matters, was unmoving in his decision to veto such an offer. And, with the remaining Spirit collectively inclined to seek a divorce from Belkin, a determination was made to use this transaction as the impetus to initiate what has now become a never ending battle for the splitting of the former partnership. What that owner said, paraphrased, was, “I agree Billy got bluffed. But the fact that it was the trigger to seek a severance of the partnership was, ultimately, worth the price of the transaction”. That has nothing to do with Billy obediently following a politically driven directive, and everything to do with the remaining Spirit group seizing the opportunity to initiate a much-desired divorce.

I’ve explained this, at length, many times. And I’m not the only guy on this blog who knows the other witness to my version of the events. And, to this day, I agree with anyone who would question why an owner would make such a statement to a complete stranger. But it happened. And it’s been long since rendered inconsequential.

If Joe would quit mis-representing both the actual event, as well as my accurate and witnessed recounting of the conversation, I’d never have to discuss it again.

But the idea that Billy’s resounding incompetence is a direct result, and the complete responsibility of ownership, is simply ludicrous. None of his draft decisions were based on some Spirit-driven “business plan”. They were just horrible, franchise-crippling mistakes. And broke-a* ownership certainly can’t be blamed for paying a career back-up, with a lengthy history of injuries and a well-established inability to shoot a basketball outside of 10 feet.

I simply cannot fathom anyone with more than a handful of firing synapses espousing that Billy Knight isn’t a significant chunk of this franchises failings.

Let’s look at it this way: if we had a better, stronger ownership group, we might be more likely to engage in another free-agent signing, or have more freedom to add payroll, via trade. But those potential changes can do nothing but pale in comparison to having had a GM who did the obvious, and drafted Paul or Williams, Deng or Igoudala, and Roy. Forget Horford. Only the worst possible outcome for last season left us in a realistic position to keep from having to give that lottery pick to Phoenix. Dumb luck.

You can’t pick your owners in the NBA. But you can pick your GM and head coach. So why not stick with the things within our realistic grasp, and get someone with half a brain to make personnel decisions. Let him pick a coach that has the basic comprehension of running half-court sets, and leveraging substitutions for optimal match ups.

Would we be better with an ownership change? Who really knows? Depends on the replacement group. But can there be any doubt that we couldn’t do any worse than the GM and coach we currently have?

I think not…..

By HB Ando

January 23, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

Terrell Barron, do you really believe that if we had a lineup of Paul, Johnson, Igoudala or Deng, Josh Smith, Brandon Roy and Zaza that we’d be simply fighting for a playoff spot?

An NBA writer for FoxSports.com just released his power rankings, and ranked the Hornets #1. #1! Their lineup consists of Chris Paul, a rotation of underwhelming 2 guards, a 6’9 small forward, who doesn’t do ANYTHING but shoot 3’s, and is never healthy, a power forward that was taken with the 18th overall pick, in ‘03, and a center that Chicago simply gave up on, who found his game playing with the brilliant Chris Paul.

Sorry, but New Orleans lineup, as it stands, compared to what the Hawks lineup would be if Knight had make better, and rather obvious at the time, draft choices, isn’t even close.

You simply cannot give Billy credit for Horford. He FAILED in an absolute sense to be in a position to draft him. You say we still wouldn’t have a big man in the paint, but who’s fault, other than Billy Knight, is that?

I just can’t understand the ongoing attempts of people to give Billy Knight’s incompetence a hall pass. It’s beyond mind-boggling to me.

Stop the madness!

By Professor

January 23, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

Whatever happened to that Cenk Akyol dude the Hawks drafted some years ago? Couldn’t he come in here and contribute? I don’t know much about him, heck, I don’t even know if I spelled his name right. But he does have some professional experience and international players seem to adapt to the league a little quicker than college players these days.

By Clyde

January 23, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

All I gotta say is….

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

I want David McDavid.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By cp

January 23, 2008 2:55 AM | Link to this

I forgot about David McDavid. Maybe we would have been better off with him as owner. Only one cook in the kitchen instead of the 20 we have now. Call him up and see if he still wants to buy this team.

By ray

January 23, 2008 7:06 AM | Link to this

Ando, in the words of Jim Carrey: “SSSSSMOKIIIIIINN!

Joe, I was going to reply to your reply, but I think someone beat me to it. Ah well, here goes anyway: I understand the Donald Sterling conditions comment, only once again…it’s a bit off base because even Sterling has a better building foundation and has seen the error of his ways. He’s got a real center in Kaman (if not always healthy), a star pf in Brand, swingmen like Maggette, and at least took a shot/chance on a pg like Livingston (health issues). And his back-up (Sam Cassell) was even signed. Each and every analogy you make still points to a better building block than what we have. Each scenario points to having a smarter GM that knows where the delete key is. I’d still rather have Donald Sterling than this group. Know what words came out of Sterling’s mouth recently? Basically, he said Elton Brand’s contract stuff was coming up soon, and he deserves whatever he asks for. And he’s considering what to do with Maggette as far as keeping him or trading him.

That’s more vision and awareness than we’ve ever seen or gotten out of the ridiculous Spirit or the fool-a$$, stoic Knight. The problem is the presence of hindsight and lack of foresight. You (and no doubt the Spirit group as well) keep pointing to the margin of wins. If that’s all that’s looked at, then no wonder there’s no vision. Eventually, with the team and coaching we have, there will be no “plus” margin in the win column. We’ve damn near peaked with what we have. Far fewer key injuries, so that excuse is gone. Players are more experience, another excuse gone. Why are we still losing? Don’t answer that.

Know what’s worse? Finally Mark Bradley, and now Jeff Schultz have it right (although they still aren’t hammering Billy like they should). Who’s next, Terence Moore? The truth wagon is up to full speed. Oh, and much as you surely hate it: Ando is right. He’s been right.

By yessir

January 23, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

Fire Clyde and his computer

By Astro Joe

January 23, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Ray & Ando, my last post was from the eyes of the owners, you know, the ones who actually make decisions about whether or not BK (and Woody) stays. You know, the ones who have the boat load of money and can actually make something happen. You know, the ones who every day decide that BK should remain as GM. Those guys. I don’t believe that BK has done a great job. I do believe that he has done exactly what his bosses have asked him to do. And I do believe that when you do what your bosses ask you to do and when the financial metrics improve year-over-year that most bosses will keep you around.

What do you think BK is graded on during his end-of-year evaluation? His draft picks? His personnel decisions? Do you think they call in Chad Ford or John Hollinger to determine his performance grade? Do they post a poll on AJC?

Stop thinking like a fan for 10 minutes and think like an owner. Instead of waxing about what you would do as GM, put yourselves in the shoes of owners who have limited capital and are simply trying to squeeze what they can out of their bottom 5 salary structure. No need to convince me of BK’s faults, I’m not the one paying his salary. And until you recognize the influence of financial metrics, I’m not sure that simply regurgitating for the upteenth time the past draft picks will make any difference in their minds. Does UPS fire a top 5 exec because he hired a B-level staff who improved results significantly as opposed to an A-level staff who likely could have done better? No, they enjoy the financial benefits of that staff and ask the head exec to try to do better next time and leave him alone.

Here’s the folly in your thinking. You seem to think that the ASG want to win. Now explain to me exactly what evidence you have to support that theory. I’ll wait.

By terrell barron

January 23, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Damn Ando, You say he missed on Paul, and the previous year he missed on Iguadola and Deng. Did any GM hit on all of those players? I think not! MONDAY MORNING GM’S ALWAYS MAKE THE RIGHT PICKS. LOL. I’m sure we were not the onle team with a top 10 pick, both years. You even had the nerve to put Zaza in your starting five. That team would still struggle. Where’s the interior defense? Who’s coming off the bench? Remember, You wouldnt have Chills. And dont forget, you’d still have Woody. haha

By terrell barron

January 23, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Ando you put 6 players in your starting 5.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

January 23, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

I really have little else to contribute in the way of the ownership situation. While I do think that the spirit is not THE problem, there is something to be said about a corporation having a “face” and their success. Look at most of the professional sports teams that have won championships the last few years, each has a principle face- Hawks, Thrashers, Braves…. Name the last Atlanta team to win a round of the playoffs- Mr. Blank.

Would like to throw this in the pot however with regards to our “sterling” (couldnt resist) track record of talent appraisal, wikipedia offered this nugget (unfortunately not one of gold):

However, despite the recent influx of talent acquired in the draft, they still hold the longest drought of not drafting an All-Star or Pro Bowl player in North American pro sports (23 years), going back to their 1984 selection of Kevin Willis

And please, let’s keep this blog clean. No need to mention/make reference to the profane or inane; re: T$r$nc$ M%%re.

By terrell barron

January 23, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

I give him credit for Horford. He’s the GM. He drafted him. Did you give the Spurs GM credit for Duncan? Did you give Orlando’s GM credit for Howard? They got lucky, just like Billy.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 23, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Howz about Ted” big dollars” Turner and Aurthur “hella bank” Blank just buy the Hawks and lets get this thing turned around.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

January 23, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Actually, I will take this opportunity to weigh in on the whole GM thing. Whoever said it is right, it is easy to play monday morning/armchair GM- we, presumably, arent the professionals. It is however BILLY KNIGHT’S JOB to scout and draft players. It is imperative for him to BE RIGHT, that’s what he’s paid to do!

People can say what they will, a GM is not a coach. Coaches can call plays that sometimes do/dont work because it is dependent on execution. Even then the coach can rightfully come under scrutiny. (think about who in most scenarios you would want to take a game winning jumper- Joe Johnson or Travis Outlaw. It worked out for Outlaw this time, BUT IT DID WORK OUT, making McMillan the genius and Woody the fool [not hard to do]).

Billy Knight, as most GM’s, clearly built his team with a plan. He saw something in Chils for his “plan” that Deng or Iggy didnt fit as well. The same goes for Smoov (of which I was an admittedly a skeptic of initially). Marvin vs Deron/CP, similar scenario. Shelden… yeah about that. The point is that YOU CAN BLAME the GM for things not working out playerwise because again, IT’S THEIR JOB, not ours. That is why you have “system” players. JJ does a lot more in our system than he did in Phoenix, not just because he’s “better” but because he has to. If anyone has League Pass and saw the Portland game and hear the announcers compare James Jones and JJ as being similar since leaving Phoenix, then you hopefully you feel my pain. One system the were similar, now they are not.

Viewed in this context, Knight deserves all the ire he is drawing from fans (even if not ownership, though I’m curious if at this point it’s not stubborn pride in light of Belkin situation, this group did dump Hartley and he was a lot better than BK). The GM in Orlando deserves credit for not drafting Okafur or trading the pick. The GM in San Antonio deserves the same credit for drafting Duncan when they already had a HOF center. The Rockets could have drafted MJ, but didnt, nobody says anything to them about that?

A GM’s vindication lies in the decisions made within the context of them being made. Riley is no worse a GM for trading the Heat’s future for the chip they won a couple years ago. Everyone saw it coming. Much the same way the C’s are going to be awful in a couple years, but if they win now (their purpose) it will all be good. BK supposedly is drafting a team to win this year and despite what has been said about this player v that, he has this last year to make it happen with his “plan”. Time will tell and we shall see.

The question I ask to the rest of you is WOULD THOSE OF YOU WANTING TO SEE BK/WOODY FIRED LIKE TO SEE IT HAPPEN AT THE EXPENSE OF THIS SEASON? This is asking do the constant “I told you so’s” or “he sucks” etc that each of us has uttered about Hawks management force us to “root against them” just for vindication? Or if/when the Hawks do in fact put it all together THIS SEASON, will we all be men enough to admit “You know what? BK might be on to something here. I couldnt see the forrest through the trees.” Though I still want to assert that I am not a fan of BK, nor do I know this will happen, just a question for general consumption. The team has made progress, however incrimental, and seems to be in need of more tweaking (like most teams) than overhaul as in years past. Ask yourselves are you REALLY rooting against the Hawks, by rooting against BK, Woody?

By roan st

January 23, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Did I miss something? What the heck is Joe talking about? The Hawks have bountiful profits and cash flow in their operations because of Billy Knights mistakes? Last I heard they were about to go broke and Joe’s on here talking about financial improvement to the bottom line. Imagine the improvement to the bottom line if Chris Paul had the hawks in the top two or three in the east. More fans in the arena spending more money because they would finally have something to cheer about. Joe you’re thinking to hard, maybe you should give the old noggin a rest.

By randy

January 23, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

Last time the dysfunctional Spirit gave BK an allowance, he went out and signed “Gimpy” Claxton and Lorenzon “the foul machine” Wright.

Also, I thought there was a good chance they would re-sign Josh Smith next year because I heard Bernie say they would. But now that Bernie is gone, and The Spirit are continuing on with their cheapa$$ ways, I seriously doubt it.

Face it, we are gonna be stuck with Woody and BK for a while, atleast till the Spirit go broke. They cherish their “yes” men.

By Ra'mon

January 23, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Pritchard may have just came in last season, but the VP still remains from before Pritchard came. And for the record there were many rumors of the Blazers wanting Aldridge AND TT. And they were trying their best to use their pick and Randolph to make it happen.

The point I was trying to make is if you have two different types of ownerships that are in two different situations, how can you compare the personnel moves? Maybe BK drafted Sheldon too high, but that was the only realistic way he had a shot at getting interior help for defense.

Although Roy would’ve been nice, there are 6-7 other teams wishing they would’ve drafted Roy or kept Roy. But Roy still wouldn’t solve the Hawks biggest problem, and thats defensive help on the interior. The Blazers win because of the defensive rotation they have in their frontcourt.

And many of you are forgetting one thing, you take Paul, Johnson, Deng, Smooth, and Zaza as your line up, and do you really TRUST Woody with that line up? Paul played through many mistakes his rookie year, that would’ve never happened with Woody. Some of you say BK should just fire him, but BK can’t do that with out permission. Just like the same summer of Speedy, BK had to get approval from both sides. And despite his injured past, Speedy was still the second best PG free agent of that summer. And the Hawks did strike out on the first.

By Ken Strickland

January 23, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

I’ve never participated in fantasy league basketball, so will someone explain the rules to me. I see it has once again become a hot topic of discussion. The truth is, I prefer seeking real world solutions to the teams problems. I really want this team to get better. So I refrain from reaching back into the distant past to dredge up those shoulda, coulda fantasy league solutions.

When I watch a Hawks gm I watch the team as it’s actually constructed. I focus on the PG’s that we have, even though they’ve been inadequate. I don’t waste time projecting and assuming a player that we passed over would automatically perform at their current level in a Hawks uniform. I just don’t see the benefit in assuming these passed over players would automatically mesh into a cohesive and productive unit on both ends of the court. I refuse to assume Woodson wouldn’t have the same alienating effect he seems to be having on our current players and team.

Now, I’m not saying anyone that assumes we’d be a better team with those overlook players is wrong. You could very well be right in your assumtions. But, how is all that wishful thinking and projecting going to help this current Hawks team and players get better?

Has anyone taken time to consider how prominantly finance figured into our drafting decisions. We all know our owners are cash strapped and operating under various other limitations. The players we drafted, except SWilliams, were considered projects and none were considered high profile players. Mgt’s objective seemed to focus on drafting potential rather than a finished product. That might have been the reason BK didn’t draft the players some of you felt he should have. It’s just a thought. GOOD LUCK TONIGHT HAWKS!!!!

By roan st

January 23, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

UH, the rockets got the dream is why no one criticizes them. The rockets played in four NBA finals winning two championships with the dream leading the way. He is one of the greatest centers of all time and no one in history had more beautiful footwork in the low post. It’s really hard to critique a team who passed on one future hall of famer for another hall of famer. But in the case of the hawks passing on paul vs. marvin williams is a completely different story.

By roan st

January 23, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Ken, what are you trying to say? Maybe we should call in the CIA to come down to Georgia and brain wash all hawks fans so we can forget the past and focus on the future? What’s next? I suppose they would have to open up a permanent office in ATL so we could get brainwashed every summer. I’m sorry but I’m not accepting the staus quo anymore. I will continue to blast this GM and ownership group and I refuse to just sit idly by and accept ineptitude.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

January 23, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Roan,

Clearly you missed the point of that buddy. I’m not saying that Houston gaffed, that Marvin was “the right pick”, or that there was even a second gunman on the grassy knoll. I also am not prognosticating the entire career paths of players 3 years in the league. Chauncey Billups vs Penny Hardaway anyone? I’m simply stating the fact that GM’s make moves according to plans, Houston had Ralph Sampson as well and stil drafted Akeem though Jordan turned out to be better. It worked out for both teams. Your assessment of Marvin’s game echoes my observations about him on previous posts. He is, like our Hawks, getting better and in the midst of that, it is difficult to slap a label on him already as if he is a finished product. You are well within your right to hold BK to task, I simply ask the question of whether or not people notice are taking perspective on what’s going on. I’d love to have never traded ‘Nique, see Pau in a Hawks uni, never known who Cal Bowdler was, or offer Jon a “Koncak” but that’s not where we find ourselves. Evaluate the man on what he is doing according to what he said he was going to do. If we do not see “enough” (key clause, admittedly subjective) progress or indications of progress then we should make a move. Just dont be on some spilt milk mission when things are going “according to plan”. I feel the need to again assert that I am not a fan of BK, just that people need to figure out what they are rooting for. You cant root for/against the Hawks without rooting for/against BK. We have talent enough to field a competitive/playoff team across the 5 positions. More relevant than coulda, woulda, shoulda, is what are we going to do to turn competitive into dominant, and can/will BK pull that trigger. My heart says yes, but along with many others, my head says… Also want to note Woodson is another story however (see ‘02 Bucs, ‘07 Chargers, Mike Brown, etc). Coaches are subject to another set of rules/standards. Woody could definately be doing more with what he has been given by BK- without question.

By randy

January 23, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

One good thing I seen the other night was the willingness of Acie Law to take some shots. As Steve Smith pointed out, he has to stop playing not to make mistakes. I was happy to see Acie when he drained that 3 ball. Of course Woody immediately sat him on the bench for the rest of the half for no particular reason. Hopefully, as his confidence grows, he can get more quality minutes and maybe even be a consistent starter sometime this season. So there is some light…I hope.

By Astro Joe

January 23, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

roan st, simple question, do you think owners have more moeny this season than they did 3 years ago with 13 wins? Sure, they are poorer relative to other owners but likely wealthier relative to when they first got the team. What’s more important, that you have more money than your friend or that you have more money than you had last year?

By randy

January 23, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Marvin?? I do not see much more potential in Marvin. He still disappears, he still has the same clumsy footwork, he still is soft, especially when going to the basket. But I do get a laugh everytime he goes to a freethrow line with his mouth hanging open and does the retard slap on his shoulder. Ol’ Marvelous Marvin. Atleast he has a jumpshot or else he would be out of the league already.

By randy

January 23, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Nobody ever answered me last time I asked what does BK do? And it wasn’t a rhetorical question, I am curious. He obviously isn’t searching for free agents. No need to scout since we don’t have draft picks for next 2 years due to the JJ trade. He doesn’t spend any time talking to the media. I mean what else does a GM do?

By steve

January 23, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

We are 13-6 when AJ plays 26 or more minutes. All we need is a good pg.

Minor adjustments.

AJ isnt a good pg but he doesnt lose it for us. much like a system qb, like Dilfer with the Ravens. We can win with him. Let him run point for 30 minutes a night and let Acie play about 18 a night as our backup pg with our 2nd unit while he develops (And hopefully will be our good pg going forward)…. if he’s not the guy than we find our PG (Bibby? Calderon?)going forward ASAP that can go forward with our extremely talented and otherwise good young team and be contenders for years to come.

We just need minor adjustments to get 43 or so wins and lock up that playoff spot. We’re getting better by the day as the youngest team in our league with so much talent, a great young leader/franchise player in JJ with very good options in Smoove, Marvin, Horford inside, and Chillz off the bench. We just need some adjustments to get there, such as moving J-Smoove or Marv to our bench to spearhead our 2nd unit (Which would improve our 2nd unit and make it one of the best in the NBA) while putting a defender/rebounder/banger (Zaza, Lorenzen, Solo, nothing great just a Przybilla or Kendrick Perkins type)into our starting lineup at center and sliding Horford to the PF spot in our starting lineup.

We’ll be alright, we have a ton of talent. Once we get our good PG to go with our young and extremely talented team going forward we will be contenders for a long time. We have a very very bright future.

With a slightly below average or average point guard we are a mediocre team.

With a good or very good pointguard we are a 50 win team or contender.

With no pointguard we suck.

WE NEED A POINTGUARD!!!!!

By I.MUS WRITE

January 23, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Just heard that ZAZA was suspended for the game tonight for conduct detremental to the team.

Okay sending him to the showers because he played like garbage is alright, but what did the guy do to warrant a suspension? Did he curse Woody? -if so he doesnt deserve to be suspended for that. I guess being upset can take money out of your pockets-wow. Anybody remember when Robert Horry threw a towel in D Ainges face on the sidelines.

Yeah suspend for that, but for getting mad???? thats stupid.

KS -I feel you bro. I try to focus on who we have and who we can get in the off season. There is no need in salivating over what could have been-

NO Paul,Gay,Roy-its just not going to happen so lets keep it pushing. Lots of day after GM’s here

All I can say is none of those guys would have been who they are now playing in this system for our clueless coach…………..

By mykhalc

January 23, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

I.MUS,All I can say is none of those guys would have been who they are now playing in this system for our clueless coach…………..

now THAT is the truth!!!!!!

By steve

January 23, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

“Like I said before, BK has his hands tied behind his back. Yeah, he’s made some bad decisions, but the hiring of Woody has to be his worse move yet. He’s missed on some great players, but this team has talent. None of you can dispute that. But they seem to be playing for a guy who couldnt coach elementary kids without having an argument. Who callstowhenthere own team has just made a steal and are on a fast break? Who takes out a guy after he just hit 3 3ptrs IN A ROW? Who sits a young pg down for basically the rest of the game, after he was having one of his best performances in a long time? Who tries to initiate a halfcourt offense, when a team is built to run? Who continues to leave an outside scoring threat on the bench, when JJ is getting doubled? Who continues not to play his only 2 legit 6-11 7 ft guys, when its obvious that they should be in the game helping Al out in the paint? Come on guys, we all know who’s the real problem.”

Exactly riht terrell barron.

We have the personnel to win now, yea we are the youngest team in the league but we are being mismanaged. If we werent playing handcuffed we would have won 4 of the gmes we lost and we would be 22-16 right now instead of 18-20.

Move Zaza or a different center into the starting lineup as a Przybilla type banger/rebounder with size to play 20 minutes a night and have Horford slide to Power Forward in our starting lineup. Also that moves J-Smooth to our 2nd unit to spearhead our bench along with Acie and Chillz plus hopefully Salim making our bench one of the strongest in the NBA.

And let AJ play pg 28 minutes a night with Acie backing him up playing 20 a night while he develops into hopefully our PG going forward of the future.

We are 13-6 when AJ plays 26 or more minutes.

We have the personnel to win right now, we have everything needed to be a 43 win team and 8 seed (50 win team if we got a very good PG like a Mike Bibby)…….we just need Woody to make the adjustments.

By steve

January 23, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

I wouldnt trade Marvin NO MATTER WHAT.

By Ken Strickland

January 23, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

ROAN ST, what’s up my friend? You should know I would never suggest anything as drastic as you’re suggesting. But I do hope you consider that the solutions to the Hawks’ problems should be sought in the present or the future, not the past.

I want to expand on my comments concerning how finance might have been a key factor in BK’s draft decisions. One of the biggest discussions we’ve had involves the resigning of the 2 Joshes. The general consensus is the Spirit doesn’t have the resources to resign both, plus our future RFA’s. If you accept that as fact, then consider this. Suppose we had drafted Roy, Paul/Williams, Deng/Igoudala instead of our current draftees. Realistically, how many and/or which ones would we be able to resign? The Hawks are currently stessing over the possibility of committing to a max contract for JSmith. How do you figure they could/would be able to commit to an additional 3?

The status of the current core of players drafted by BK makes it more financially feasable to keep them together. If we’d signed the players some of you preferred, we’d simply be renting them for the duration of their rookie contracts. We might still end up doing that same thing with JSmith. None of us knows the magnitude or impact our ownership finances and other issues have had on BK’s ability to function. Until we do, we simply aren’t qualified to accurately judge his moves, let along question his intelligence and/or abilities. How many GM’s could have functioned as well under simular circumstances?

Jerry West was considered the NBA’s premier GM when he was with the Lakers. In comparison, he was a complete failure with Memphis. Danny Ainge was also held in low regard based on his handling of the Celtics. With one trade, he’s completely redeemed himself. The opinion of the Bulls GM, JPaxon, is certainly not the same as was a few yrs ago. He’s being blamed for not making a trade for either Gasol or Garnett. None of these GM’s have had to deal with as many owners as their respective teams have starting players. Add the fact these owners are locked in a legal slugfest that included court imposed sanctions.

So let’s seek and discuss solutions rather than blaming the GM for everything.

By terrell barron

January 23, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Glad to see that I’m not the only one who can truly see WHO’S THE PROBLEM. Give BK a break.

By terrell barron

January 23, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Melo’s out. We better get this one tonight or the road trip is going to be a disappointment.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

January 23, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Ken I’ve been inclined to agree with you largely, but I can’t buy into all of these “you don’t know the whole story” lines. Though it may be naieve to do so, it has been said that we are not hampered by the legal situation. As such, at least with regards to drafting, I can’t imagine why BK or ANY GM would willing draft talent suspected of being inferior simply to save $.

This is not MLB, where immediate contributions/dividends needs to be taken into account with minor league development or even the NFL where salaries are locked by position (after rookie contract). It is tough to ask a GM to project how well a player is going to do and how much $ he will need to resign him. If that is the case then drafting Marvin would not have been the wise move at all (assuming he would be the best player at some point, as oppossed to more developed/ ready to go). Shelden and Roy were both seniors so there was no development plan there either. They were who they were (within the confines of a 4 yr player going into a rookie year with a team).

Your model suggests he is tanking the talent level at the behest of his employers/situation, this would be unprecendented. The Clippers, for all their problems, at least drafted the “right” players, even if they did trade them away or not resign them. They still got “value”. BK doesnt strike me as the sharpest tool, but I wonder if he would knowingly jeopardize his job/reputation (in good standing prior to ATL days) simply scrimp a few $ for his owners 3-4 years prematurely.

You draft talent to play, then you assess how to pay it. If you cant, then you get value for it. You dont avoid the value altogether. That is a stretch that I put past even BK.

By Melvin

January 23, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Move our most productive player (JSmoove) to the bench. Now that makes sense. We should demote our hardiest playing player to allow a rookie (Horford) to start in his place. May I add that rookie production is nowhere near JSmoove’s… And some of you question Woody coaching decisions. Puh-lezzzz

By tyger

January 23, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Hawks not DEAD yet

Hawks have shown many times before that they can resurrect themselves and this time is no different.

They’ll win 3 of 5 with their backs against the wall; return home and continue their win 2 lose 3 merry ways.

The question now is how best to get above .500? Fire the coach, shake the roster w/ a blockbuster or just tweak it; or do nothing.

1) Do Hawks have too many wings? Absolutely not, teams die for versatile players that can defend and score from multiple positions.

2) Do Hawks have the right Coach for this phase of development? Wont yet say he has lost them; but he doesnt look good especially after seeing a young team/coach go 11 deep in your house.

3)Did Hawks draft right players? Marvin and Shelden are debateable; but at least Marvin is starting to show. Shelden doesnt even play, so go figure.

4) Where are the steals? Good teams find diamonds in the rough, where’s ours? Salim dont play, Solo dont play, Mario dont play. It appears that if you arent a lotto pick you cant get minutes in ATL. Is that right? Maybe if we were the Spurs or Pistons or perennial winners, NOT.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 23, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Randy are you ready for the truth?Well here it is. BK is a very busy man, he spends most of his time touring college campuses in in search of next 6’9 inch forward.

He’s looking for replacements for the 5 we already have, because the ASG have already told him they wont spend money on anyone coming up for extension.

ASG: Billy whass wrong with you? Now you know dam well we aient forking out that kinda money on extensions, 70 million are you crazy-i should fire your azz right now, but were to cheap to hire another GM. Let Josh walk we can replace him with solomon or zaza.

Billy: YESSA BOSS

The rest of the time he is day dreaming about the dance team, picking parasites out of his afro or ridiculing Salim and Mario for not being 6”9.

On monday you can catch ol Billy making it rain at Magic City with the likes of Jermaine Dupree and Bow Wow. There yopu have it dude the very busy life of BK

By honest_abe

January 23, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

sup

i’m sure i’m not the only one that has wondered how much more effective ac law might be under a different coach. he looks so scared to make a mistake its pathetic.

during the hawks nice december run it seemed like mario west was given a chance to bring some energy and defense. what happened to him?

this team has quality depth but when the assets aren’t utilized to their maximum potential all you have is a bunch of disappointing losses.

can we please just get rid of woody already. i swear the “can woody” theme on this blog over the past 3 years sounds like a broken record.

FIRE WOODCOCK NOW!

By Astro Joe

January 23, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Abe, thanks for the cameo appearance. The strange thing is that Larry Drew is supposed to be a PG teaching wizard. Yet, Law looks worse now than he did opening night against Dallas (I was there). But I guess the position coach can’t do much when the head coach doesn’t provide game time opportunities. Similarly, it appears that Alton Lister is only coaching Horford these days.

By roan st

January 23, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Joe, you said: ” roan st, simple question, do you think the hawks have more money this season than they did three years ago with 13 wins?” Absolutely not. It has been widely publicized, even admitted by ownership, that the hawks operation has been losing money. Go back and read some of the articles during the ownership battle when they were crying to the judge about burning their cash to fund operations. From what little I learned in business school negative cash flow leads to a depletion of cash reserves which means you have less money as time goes by. So if the hawks are a money losing operation then the owners net worth has decreased the last 3 years.

Ken, all I can say is that I’m speechless. You’re either suggesting that the hawks intentionally drafted players of less ilk because they knew if they became stars, ownership couldn’t afford them. Or you’re suggesting that because of BK’s failure to draft good players it has worked out o.k. because we can’t pay em anyway. That is absolutely astounding. And you sound as if you’re on board with this gross mismanagement of the team.

By Ken Strickland

January 23, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Nationally reknowned All American caliber players like Roy, Deng, Igoudala, Williams and Paul are usually more skilled, experienced and mature than other college players. Therefore, they’re expected to produce more rapidly. That means they will usually approach their max potential before their rookie contracts are up. That also means the teams that drafted them have to offer a max contract to retain them after their rookie contracts expire. Players like JSmith and MWillisms aren’t usually expected to approach their max potential during their rookie contract. That allows teams to resign them to less than max contracts and retain them over a longer period.

KBryant is currently the best player in the NBA, but he wasn’t the best when he was drafted. When BK arrived he completely blewup the roster and started from scratch. He and ownership were committed to rebuilding through the draft and developing young players over a 4yr period. It didn’t make sense to draft a series of All American type players knowing you aren’t financially capable of retaining them beyond their rookie contracts.

You might not agree with my analysis, but you can’t argue with the logic behind it. You also might not buy the “you don’t know the whole story line”, but the truth is you don’t, none of us do. All that we can offer at this point is speculation and very little else. The lawsuit between Belkin and the Spirit is ongoing, and there’s friction within the Spirit. None of us knows the status of the current lawsuit or if the court imposed restrictions are still in place. If so, that will definitely affect any trade possibilities. We can’t allow our frustrations to get in the way of common sense and/or reality.

By randy

January 23, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

I.MUS LOL. Unfortunately, all that might be true. I still thinks he spends most of his time checking out internet porn though. ASG are too cheap to put filters on their computers…

By cp

January 23, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Get rid of Mike “Gregg Knapp” Woodson. Let Drew take over.

By randy

January 23, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

I must admit that I bought into Marvin too. They talked about him like he was the second coming of Christ. How should I know? He played backup on a championship team and he never got enough minutes to make an impression. All you heard about was “potential”. I am still waiting for it.

At the time I thought Deron Williams was a better fit since they had addressed the forward position the year before, so I am happy with myself on that. I liked Deron’s size and his play at point.

I must admit though that I didn’t bye into Paul…I thought he was an Iverson type player since he would rack up like 40 pts a night in college. Also thought he was too small to be effective in NBA. And I also rememeber being very high on Shawn May (I had to look up his name on Charlotte’s roster to remember it). I thought he would be a monster at PF even though some considered him undersized. I even told my dad he would be rookie of the year! Then 2 knee surgery’s later, he is still injured. Shows what I know…

By terrell barron

January 23, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Randy, at least you’re honest. There’s a few more cats on here who also fell in love with Marvin before the draft, but wont admit it. He almost went #1 to Milwaukee and then we would have drafted Bogut, and you guys would still be b***. Paul and Williams aren’t coming through that door. GET OVER IT. Some of us are going to be upset 20 yrs down the road, just like Blazer fans were when Michael became a star and Bowie struggled with injuries. JUST WAIT AND SEE!

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

January 23, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Roan,

You clearly did miss me. I did not assert whether it was the right/wrong move. Using that instance to say that just because good talent, possibly greater, appears later, doesnt mean that your original decision is poor (rule specific, not just Duck v CP). Following my story later, Marvin is not yet a finished product so it is dubious to label him a bust as he continues to progress, wait until it has tapered off by seasons, not games. Who is to say what happens to who- ie. Billups v Penny. Hope it’s clearer now. They both made good decisions, but time proved that, not instant analysis. It also has to do with systems, because Portland thought the “center logic” about Sam Bowie with the next pick… Could Drexler, Jordan could have co-existed possibly. I also included the disclaimer for that exact purpose, so as not to be confused for supporting BK. Just saying it is the plan he created so lets see if it works as a finished product, because again, we are improving, ever so slowly, with the roster he built. That is all

Ken,

You’re arguement still doesnt hold all that well. J Chills (Pac 10 POY) was All-America, Iggy was not. Deng had only a couple years of bball experience total. Chills was the more polished product. As for Smoov he is a lot better than everyone anticipated (fortunately). It is a credit that BK pulled the trigger on him, but he also is a different style player than those drafted around him, save maybe Dorel Wright. What you fail to realize is that odds are Smoov would be a similar player to who he is now had he gone to college, just been drafted higher as a result of exposure. Dont confuse “buying low” with just getting him before he “knows how good he is”. Players and agents are pretty adept assigning themselves values. Players usually show their “base” selves by year 3-4 in the league no matter when they enter. Check the #’s for most of the high school players- they are within a range of what they’ve done at their peak. The same pretty much goes for college players, though it is usually within 2-3 years. Put another way, whenever their rookie contracts are set to expire, by in large the players “are what we thought they were”.

Additionally, we did not know what the financial status of the team would be in “the coming years”. Smoov was no Bryant, who btw was drafted behind 2 potential hall of famers and a couple of all-stars, neither of which mentions Marcus Camby. Kobe also was “avoided” in part because of a prima donna nature he was perceived to have (demanding to be traded to LA). That aside there is such a thing as twisted logic, and I think that’s what we have here. This seems more, as stated above, to be a case applied for sake of convenience than to have any evidence of truth to it. It reads well and would seem “logical” in this context but it purely conjecture.

Even still using your scenario again, we could conceivably trade the talent we cant afford (as we might have to do anyway) than to roll the dice and hope we dont crap.

By jami$$iondadon

January 23, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

IMUS YO POST WAS CRAZYFUNNY.I MYSELF WANTED CP N DAT DRAFT OR FELTON. BUT I AIN’T TRIP CUZ WE GOT SALIM&I SEEN HOW HE WAS DISMANTLING TEAMS N COLLEGE SAME AS CHILLS AND I DIDN’T DIG DA SHELDON PICK BUT I RESPECTED IT CUZ I KNEW WE NEEDED INSIDEHELP. BUT WHAT I DONT RESPECT, IS DA WAY ALL DEEZ PLAYERS POTENTIAL IS BEING WASTED,DA LOSING OF GAMES U R IN POSITION 2 WIN IS INEXCUSABLE.BK IS DA ARTCHETIC HE DESIGNED & BUILT THIS CAR IS IT A FERRARI NO,BUT IT AIN’T A HOOPTY.WOODY JUST CAN’T DRIVE & HE’S DUI!

By Wink from Lithonia

January 23, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I am one of the “extrapolation mafia” who believes, this coach will get us to 0-8. I believe he was the one who called the time out when we are on a fast break to possibly win the game. We got crazy negative stats coming out of a time out.

You state: “We’ll find out a lot more about these Hawks over the next nine days. How the handle themselves under duress, on this upcoming road trip, will shed a better light on what this team is made of - call it whatever you want, but we find out between now and the end of this month if these Hawks have the intestinal fortitude to fight for their playoff lives or if they just a figment of our collective imagination all the these months.”

You’re not overly optimistic yourself; possibly an extrapolation mafia member in waiting…lol

I am not totally married to the mob, so I hope they can muster up one victory???

But when I hear an NBA coach say, “he would be satisifed with 1 or 2 victories,and anything else is gravy on a 5 game road trip”, this does not give me as a fan much hope!!

We have no dominant star power. (Kobe, LeBron, CP3…Travis Outlaw)

We have no team identity.(Spurs, Pistons, Suns, …Raptors)

We have no management. (Dumars, Cuban, Popovich…Ainge???)

We have no motivational Coach…let’s go to the West Coast and try to win 1 or 2 games…WHY NOT ALL OF THEM…totally unrealistic but try to make them think they can!!!!!

Sekou meet the President of the “extrapolation mafia” … Sekou meet Woody, Woody - Sekou——lol:)

By Ken Strickland

January 23, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

ROAN ST, I never said or implied they drafted players of certain ilk because they didn’t want them to become stars. My implication was they weren’t overly interested in them reaching max stardom before resigning after their rookie contracts expired. There is a difference. And yes, there has been some mismanagement, but my biggest concern has been with the total MISOWNERSHIP of the team and its impact on attempts to manage the team.

I am also in favor of a coaching change. Attitudes have got to change, and the one that’s least likely to change is Woodson’s. There are too many personal and/or individual issues on this team, especially with Woodson, that’s having an adverse affect on this team. At a time when this team should be moving forward, we have too many key players losing confidence in themselves and/or the team. I HAVE to chalk that up to Woodson. His impact on the team and the players seems to be negative at this point. When you have defiant attitudes and behavior from players like SStaudamire, JSmith, JJ, AJ and Zaza, you’re doing something wrong. I want him fired not because I have anything personal against him. I just want the best for my team and the players on it.

By Clyde

January 23, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Joe

January 23, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Just an FYI for those of you who claim the Hawks are the youngest team in the league (steve) check the facts. The Blazers are the youngest team in the league and the 3rd youngest in the HISTORY of the league. Good luck Hawks fans, hope to see you in the finals in a couple years. The Blazers and Oden will be waiting for you

By ray

January 23, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Joe, don’t give me that sanctimonious drivel. Look at things through the eyes of an owner, stop thinking like a fan? I freely admit I am not, nor have ever been an NBA GM or owner. Have you? Without intimate knowledge of any and all business details of such things, you cannot even begin to presume to be able to see things like they do. So just quit with the high horse, loftier-than-thou-pontificator perpetration.

In short, by your own words (from the eyes of an owner, no less), you’ve assumed that you know what the so-called financial metrics look like from year to year. You assume that you know what it’s like to fill their shoes. You’ve assumed that you know precisely how they do business. You assumed a whole hell of a lot more than I did, that’s for certain.

NO amount of “financial metrics” double-speak crap is going to account for or be related to badly botched drafts. You said yourself (more or less)that Billy was tasked with improving the team without spending the extra money…or whatever. How better to do it than by drafting the right players? A guy like Chris Paul (yes, here we go again)makes your team better, which puts excitement into your product, and gets more butts in the seats. Profit improvement, yes? Furthermore, an improved team attracts better free agency and trade situations. This is business, since you want to talk business. So how is keeping a guy around because he didn’t lose you more money than you normally lose equate to keeping a guy around in spite of the fact that you could have made money. Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t businessmen want more money if they can get it? Thought so. By the way, getting more money (selling more tickets and apparel) doesn’t necessarily have to equate to winning big. Case in point: the New York Knicks. They suck, yet the organization is NEVER hurting for money. How many games do you see where the stands aren’t full?And you can NOT argue with THAT.

And your modus operandi is transparent (and old). When faced with an unwinnable argument, simply change direction and create a new argument. Was going to leave that alone (because you’ve been doing it for what…3 years now?) until I read the last paragraph. How presumptuous can you be? I rail against the fact that the team is not succeeding. I’m a fan. What do you expect a fan to do? What part of this makes you think I assumed the Spirit wants to win? When did I say this? Such an assumption came from your noggin, not mine. YOU assumed too much there, I assure you. I don’t see the point in answering such a foolish challenge when I’ve never held such a belief in the ASG in the first place. However, I am not one to run from and change the argument (ahem), so here’s an answer for you: I don’t KNOW how the Spirit is running things, so there is no such evidence I could use to support such a theory. I am not privy to such details and would be a liar to say as much. Again though. Refer back to the comments I made a paragraph or two ago about winning and ticket sales not having to be synonymous.

Shall we then assume that no NBA owner wants to win? I’ll assume that this fits your conspiracy theory that you seem to want to allude to. No, I didn’t say you ARE alluding to it, I said you SEEM to be alluding to it. Let’s take that a step further: does the fact that a team is losing mean that the ownership doesn’t want to win? Why don’t YOU explain to me what evidence could be used to suggest whether or not an owner(s) is committed to winning…uh, give me that information through an owner’s eyes and perspective of course…since you are familiar and intimate with such things. I would say I’ll wait, but there’s just no point in waiting for what won’t come, is there?

By lefty

January 23, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Yi over Horford ESPN “expert” is smoking crack again Link:http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=thorpedavid&page=Rookies-080123&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dthorpedavid%26page%3dRookies-080123 “Yi Jianlian continues to surprise me with his overall talent level, because as good as Al Horford is, Yi would win a lot of arguments over who would have been a better pick for the Hawks. Yi’s got more upside as a scorer, and probably projects better as a shot-blocker, too. Having to adjust to the American game and culture (unlike Al) suggests that when he figures it out, he’ll stand alongside Durant as one of the top two rookies of this class (Greg Oden will be considered a rookie next season).”

By preston

January 23, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Oh man….I am really starting to lose my confidence in Marvin Williams….he is off to a bad start again for what is seems like is a string of games now……at least earlier in the year he was hitting the open jumpers, but now it looks like he is forcing a lot of shots and he is throwing up bricks…….I am really starting to think that him and Sheldon are actually related……

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

January 23, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Ken,

Wow, for relying on the knowledge of the general public for draft insight. An all-america player clearly is all-america calibur. You’re right who remembers Stanford being one of the last two undefeated teams that year or anyone on the left coast, it’s the Pac 10? I mean Brandon Roy…oh wait.

Sarcasm aside, again IT IS BK’S JOB to know him and all players draft eligible. I dont hold the fans accountable for that. Who care’s about press clippings?

The draft IS potential since none of them has logged minute 1 in the league. You can say it how you want to, bottom line is that teams will draft the best player they can (withiin a margin) who fits their system. Drafting somebody just because they wont be good when their contract is up is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard. Thats how a team continually will find itself in the lottery, drafting players not as good as available . If that is the case, then how will they ever get out of the lottery?

By JohnGTFan

January 23, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Hawks are building a nice little house in Denver with all those bricks. Started off 7 - 0, and may be trailing by 10 before the 1st period ends. LOL Isn’t this enough to dump Woodson…I mean come on already.

By preston

January 23, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

How does a 7 point lead evaporates into a 12 point deficit all in one quarter????? This looks like it is going to be one long trip for the hawks.

By JohnGTFan

January 23, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

I hate being right…..up by 7, down by 12…lol

By terrell barron

January 23, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Woody has to go. I’m fed up. No melo, and were still down 12 after the 1st quarter.

By mykhalc

January 23, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

the boyz are suckin’ that disappearin’ COLO air!!!! for some reason, i feel like i can predict this one early!!!???!! hope i’m wrong…

By preston

January 23, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Looks like Woodson is a desperate man……he is actually trying to get his bench involved early in the game…playing Soloman, Sheldon, and Acie in the 2nd quarter…..but there is really no flow……exactly what you would expect from an inconsistent gameplan.

By Mike

January 23, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

jami$$iondadon nice touch.

I guess everyone know where i stand on this issue I stand with the Hawks. I base my decision on what I see on the court. You CAN say what you want, but you have to be completely blind if you can’t see this young team has a very bright future. Coaches and GM’s come and go. But the guys that suit up in your home town colors is who you go to war for.

Yeah I dogg’em when they are playing wimpy and soft, but I’m willing to stand in the fire with’em, are you? In spite of Woody coaching, these guys are still very competitive. The vultures are circling right now. I see oh Shultz and Bradley scrumming around, everybody is ready to pounce. I’m rolling with the Hawks.

I don’t focus on the clouds, I focus on the sun. Now these guys are going out there and playing their heart out. Sure they have flaws, but what team doesn’t.

I’m glad ANDO and Roan St keep going back 3 ½ years on this blog. The same NAY SAYERS and DECTRACTOR are the same one from back. They still got the same lame game they had back then.

DAM THE TORPEDOES, GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By terrell barron

January 23, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

After a horrible 1st half, only down 10.

By Joe Mac Junior

January 25, 2008 2:58 AM | Link to this

Just like JS, I have never seen a bad shot I didn’t like. TEAM-AT=ME!