Hawks

By J. Shuttlesworth

January 14, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

“If the roles were reversed, and the Hawks were 8-28 and the Heat 16-17, and the Hawks filed a formal protest after Josh Smith fouled out on a scorer’s error with 51.9 seconds to play in the Hawks’ 117-111 overtime loss, would we be doing it all over again?”

Dang straight.

By Professor

January 14, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

We can’t buy a break. Oh, well. What I want to see is if BK makes any moves before the trade deadline if we can manage to stay around the 500 mark. I think we will really see what the Hawks are made of then. Whether or not they want to win it all or are just satisfied with a mediocre team.

By jamie

January 14, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

win it all? ahahahaha what move could they possibly make that would allow them to win it all?

By tinarex

January 14, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

I am curious,what happens if Shaq is inactive for the do over,do we still have to replay it or does the win stand or choose another date?

By JohnGTFan

January 14, 2008 5:25 AM | Link to this

Sekou Nice article. I agree…if this had happened last season, for example, no way the league would have granted this to the Hawks. But oh well. What’s done is done. If I’m right, ATL will be up 3, Miami with ball…right? Hopefully we can hold them off again.

Anyway, we would all love a few “do-overs” wouldn’t we? LOL I won’t even start with mine.

Looking forward to the game against Denver. I know they have all the offense you could want..but they aren’t the best defensive team in the league either. This may be one of those 116-114 type games without overtime.

By doc

January 14, 2008 7:22 AM | Link to this

i expected the ruling to be more along the line of if you knew it at the time then the protest should have been made as soon as the mistake was made rather than later after the game was reviewed. that would have meant the heat would have had a coach keeping up with the foul situation and be willing to put it on the line at the time of the infraction as if he didnt it would cost them the protested money. that ruling would have been along the lines of his very STUPID ruling to take diaw and amare off the bench in a crucial game while saying the coaches are to hogtie their players to the bench and it was their responsibility to do it and they failed.

stern is inconsistent and really gives this franchise the nut whenever he can. didnt lue make a three pointer big as day against the cavs and we lost the game but three officials blew the call and it wasnt even close? stern you make it tough to enjoy the nba because you influence it as heavy and duneghy did.

By Dan

January 14, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

I hate the Heat.

You’re right, Sekou. There is no way the Hawks would have gotten the same treatment. As much as I love the NBA, I hate the superstar treatment the league runs itself on. Anyone who was at that game back in December knows that the officials were what kept is close.

Wade’s three point play, the one Sekou is talking about, was a joke. Remember, too, that Al Horford got fouls called on him for breathing and Shaq hacked Marvin Williams, on two different occasions, when Marvin was driving to the basket late. No call!

I say F the Heat. And, here’s hoping that the Hawks beat that joke of an organization twice in March.

Also, don’t forget that the Heat do not beat the Mavs in the finals a few years ago without the help of some crazy calls. Their ‘05 championship team is the worst champ the league has ever had.

The Heat are my least favorite team in the league.

By smartguy

January 14, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Karma’a a B for the Heat. The best part about Pat Riley right now is that his owner won’t let him conveniently jump back to the front office. Say bye to DWade in two more years.

The Hawks may have been given a negative mark by all this, and will go down in history (at least for a while) as the last team to lose two games in one day. But, wait until March 8. History will again be calling. The Hawks have the unprecedented chance to win two games in one day. Then I’ll spit on Riles on his way out of town. Oh yeah, is it possible that Woody was keeping score that game?

By I.MUS WRITE

January 14, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

This replay situation stinks.I guess the NBA has to protect their super stars even when they are on one of the worst teams in the league.

Its nothing though, 2 wins in one night sounds really good..

Do over: 10th and 11th grade- I would have studied harder instead of tryn to make Division 1 as a 6’4 power forward

Do again: The 3 weeks i spent in Thailand (Phukett, Pataya Beach).You aient never seen sexxy like that. Im getting goose bumps

By Astro Joe

January 14, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Seems to me this punishment (do-over with the Heat) is a sign that the Hawks were actually on secret-double-probation from an earlier incident with the Raptors (and Stern knows what else). If the league thinks that there is a systemic problem with the way the Hawks admin staff manage games, I think I would have to defer to the League. This franchise is not exactly a textbook-model for sports franchise excellence. Heck, it was good to see Gearon quoted again. By the way, whatever happened to “Breakfast with Bernie”? Or was it canceled due to the writer’s strike?

By terrell barron

January 14, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Did Horford foul out of that game?

By Don!

January 14, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Heck, now that fixing obvious errors — can we get that Suns/Spurs Game 5 redone?

Later,

Don!

By St. Bernard

January 14, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Anyone want to do-over on some of our draft picks? They were made by incompetent staff members too. But, I probably shouldn’t go there.

By Mike

January 14, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

I stated in the last blog when the ruling came down, that not even Stern wants to see the Hawks move to the upper echelon of the Eastern Conference.

The Cavs, Bulls and the Heat are stern pet teams. Now that the Hawks pose a serious threat to these teams; ESPN, Stern, and everyone will have to eat some crow. Nobody gave these guys a chance in Hell as being one of the top eight teams in the Eastern Conference. It will be a long struggle to reach that plateau. That’s why we just got to keep fighting for every win we can get. If we do that, than everything else will take care of it self.

Forget about that game until it’s time to play it, it might end up working in favor.

By georgestan85

January 14, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Typical Big Business, Typical Stern.

By ILL-logical

January 14, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

There was a report of a Solomon Jones sighting at the last Hawks game; could there be a change of heart on the part of Woody,et al?

Seiously, as a short term measure(this season), starting Solo at the 5 and playing AH at the 4 and JSmooth at the 3 could be very,very interesting down the stretch. (MW would bring some offensive firepower off the bench to comliment JChills hustle and flow.)

AH can not last as a rookie playing the 5 full time: if he goes down for any length of time the team is in big trouble. So: Free Solomon Jones!

By G-thang

January 14, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe the hawks have gone from 4th place to fightin’ for last!! Washington Wizards have passed them and they don’t have Gilbert. I am furious with their lack of passion, on most nights. I thought that tney would lose against Chicago, based on what they did with Seattle, at Clev, Washington the 1st time. Hopefully, they can keep up the good work, but I don’t see it lastin’.

Signed,

Frustrated Season Ticket Holder since ‘05. Sect 217 r A

By I.MUS WRITE

January 14, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

St Bernard- definitely my man, lets get a redo on those draft picks.

Solo looked good considering its his first action all season. He’s shown me more than ZAZA and Sheldon have all year. We really need his length/defense around the basket. What does Sheldon or ZAZA do that Solo doesnt? They dont score much and they dont rebound all that well either (Solo~ 6 boards in 18 minutes)~ get the young’n sum playing time. Did anyone know that Solo’s the longest guy in the league if you combine his standing reach and his vertical. Amazing ~ even longer than D.Howard/Yao Ming

Iz it me or does marvin look out of control every time he drives to the whole. He loses the ball or gets stripped every time. When that Jumper is off he has to contribute more like yesterday. Overall it was a good win -we just have to learn how to play with a huge lead and not let teams back in the game. Im predicting an upset over Denver tomorrow

By Ben

January 14, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou,

Are the Hawks shopping Shelden and Salim? It seems as if the pair are collecting little to no playing time and may not fit this team. I figured I’d ask and keep up the great work.

Ben

By MannyT

January 14, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

On the upside, I haven’t attended a basketball doubleheader since college. March 8 will be interesting. Will they bring back the same refs for that last minute? If you want it to be more realistic, they should play the regular game first and the last minute last to recreate some fatigue factor.

Unlike most politicians, I would take some do overs—even for things that went really well…it was so nice, I did it twice!

On the other hand, there is a whole sci fi space time continuum thing that makes for a major movie rant…but I’ll save that for the appropriate blog.

It should be fun to see the fly swat bowl on Tuesday…who gets more—Smith or Camby?

By RA

January 14, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Okay,

I concede that it’s something of travesty that this game has to be played over, but the truth of the matter is that however things end up, the fate of the Hawks season isn’t going to hinge on one game that they should have in the W column. It’s going to hinge on their ability to close teams out when they’ve got them beat! I mean, yesterday’s game looked like a blowout on the stat sheet, but it didn’t feel like one. There was this feeling every second that the Bulls were going to run off a 10 or 12 point run and get right back in it. If not for Joe Johnson that may very well have happened… If they don’t make the playoffs by one game, they need not look back to the infamous “do over” against the Miami Heat. Instead, they need to look at all the “didn’t do’s” in games like they played on Friday night…

By Dan

January 14, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

MannyT, if they bring back the same refs, we will get to see 51.9 seconds of Dwayne Wade shooting free throws.

By randy

January 14, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Since Shaq is hurt and doesn’t play half the games, are they still gonna redo it since he is the reason we are redoing it?

This is ludicrous, first that Pat Rilley and the Heat so shamelessly filed a complaint where they got just as many lucky calls as us. Then that the mafia, bookies, and idiots that make the decisions for the NBA can be so blatantly abusive with their powers. David Stern should be fired for his gross negligence over the years, the NBA is slowly becoming like pro wrestling and boxing—and the ratings show it.

I am so disgusted with the whole situation…

By mavid

January 14, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Watch out Sekou, I can see a fine coming!

Stern’s time as commissioner has been up for awhile. The playoff system. The lottery tankathon. Laughable officiating (these guys are the best in the biz??). Questionable calls like this one.

He’s got problems, and he’s not doing a good job addressing them.

By Steve

January 14, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Make a trade to win it all?

LISTEN TO EVERYTHING I SAY HERE: we have a very GOOD and talented young team. We are well coached, have well defined and accepted roles, have very good ball movment, play unselfishly, play good defense, and have a very good young leader/franchise player in Joe Johnson.

We have the youngest team in the league and are 17-17, right in the thick of the playoff race. We have good PG play, good inside play on offense and defense, a great go-to guy/leader in Joe Johnson, good 2nd and 3rd options on offense in young studs Josh Smith and Marvin Williams, very good depth (Led by stud 6th man Childress), have shooters, rebounders, defenders……. we have everything needed to be a winner in this league RIGHT NOW in our youth.

We are very exciting and fun to watch. All those empty seats (which are filling, ill give that its due props) are really missing out on an exciting GOOD young team.

We have an extremely bright future. We arent just a “mediocre” team. We’re a good team, and a VERY GOOD YOUNG team. We SHOULD NOT RUSH ANYTHING. Our title hopes are 3-5 years from now, it is a process and we are onto something with this very talented and good young team. Be patient and enjoy this exciting young team, its the best Hawks team we’ve had in a decade. We should be happy with what we’ve got, a very good present and an even better (much better) future.

By JohnD

January 14, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

If the NBA replays all games with obvious human error there will be no end.

Two calls in the Washington game were obviously wrong - one went the Hawks way and the other to the Wizards. Did they even out? No, the Wizards scored on theirs.

Did the NBA hope that by March teh Heat would be playing better and this might give them a shot at the playoffs? That must be the answer.

By Mike

January 14, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

IMust Write, you beat me to the call on the Denver game. This will be tricky. It will depend on Woody substitution and rotation. No way can Marvin guard Mellow, it will have to be Smoove or Chill. He’s too physical for Chill. If Smoove can slow him down that’s one part of the problem.

Then there’s AI, you know one of those small penetrating guards that give us fits. No was can AJ or Acie keep up with AI, maybe Acie can slow him down. I think it’s gotta be Super Mario. Even if Mario fouls in the first half, we need to use all his fouls on AI.

We have to take away Mellow or AI to have a chance to win this game. This is where playing Solomon against the Bulls can pay off. Mario and Solomon could be the X factor for the Hawks.

I would not advocate leaving Sheldon in the dog house too long. He’s a banger. There are some games where Sheldon may be the better choice. It really just depends on who we are playing. All rookies’ hits that wall that first season, Al is no different. So there will still be opportunities to play Sheldon and Solomon.

I’m always looking at the team as whole, instead of individual parts. Woody will have to find a way to reduce Al minutes as the season progresses. There will be games where he is ineffective because his body is not use to playing an 85 game season. Sheldon is slow but he ain’t wimpy like Zaza. We can still use Sheldon.

G-thang I applaud you for being a season ticket holder. Can’t understand the point you’re making about the Hawks falling from 4th to 8th. They were only a couple of games separating these teams when the Hawks were in 4th place. You go on a four game loosing streak, it going to be impossible to hold on to that spot. There has only been a couple of games where the Hawks looked really terrible, other than that, these guys are fighting their hearts out every game. All of teams above the Hawks in the standing are veteran teams, in fact the Hawks are still the 3rd or 4th youngest team in the league.

If the Hawks can hold down that 8th spot and make it to the play off this will be a great year for this franchise. Am I saying that I’m content with just making the playoff, of course not? But let’s be real. This is best team this organization has had since the Steve Smith era. Give these guys a chance.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By cp

January 14, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Yea the refs in the NBA are jokes. I really hope Woodson plays Solo a lot more. Guys on here have been calling for him to get some pt for the longest. I feel like Imus, what was Sheldon or Za Za doing that was so much better than Solo. Sheldon sucks straight plain and simple. Za Za seems to be struggling more mentally this year than physically. Knowing Woodson he will do Solo like he has done Salim and Donta Smith when he was here. Give them pt one game they play good and then dont play them again for the next few games. Its almost as if Woodson forgets what happens the previous game or what he has on the bench or something .Moving Marvin to the bench would be a good idea only if Marvin had that come off the bench and score at will type of mentality. Dude is the type of player who is content on being a good player and not great. He reminds me of Lamar Odom in the sense that you know they have all the talent in the world but they just dont seem to have that agressive fire to really show it .

By Steve (Hawkfansince84tilforever)

January 14, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Well said Mike, I agree

By Hawk Aloogie

January 14, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

My first reaction to this idiot decision by the NBA was “the Hawks just can’t buy a break”. But the more I thought about it, the more I see the beauty inherent in this decision. Atlanta, listen up: the Hawks are ascending while the Heat is plummeting. By March, you will be able to stick a fork in Miami. But the Hawks will be gunning for a playoff spot and have something to play for. David Stern may have just given us the boot to kick Riley & Co.’s ever-loving heinies out of Philips. How sweet it is.

By GHunt

January 14, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Since we are in the mode of doing things over, I would like for Commissioner Stern to turn back the clock on my first marriage. He could have saved me a lot of problems and money. An error was apparently made in the game by the official scorer, has this ever happened before? This replay is setting a precedent that will cause more harm than good.

By D Ole Hoops Coach

January 14, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

The day after the Heat game I posted that the Hawks beat the Heat and the officials in that game. I take it back……….they just beat the Heat.

Hopefully, they will beat the officials in March. 2 wins in a day sounds good to me.

By Ramon

January 14, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Against, Denver, I think a simple zone for a good bit of the night with concentration on Melo may work (long as Smith isnt in the game). If Mario West plays heavy minutes and the Hawks play a good bit of zone, this should be a great win. Forcing Iverson to shoot from outside or drive and get a charge call is the best defense against him.

Camby is in the middle of a slump at the moment, and his small stacture should allow Horford, Sheldon, and Soloman to do some good things. Normally, this game would be huge for Zaza and Sheldon because their shooting touch would take Camby away from the basket.

Because Denver doesn’t have a great bench, I may would say actually start Childress at the point and post Iverson up (rather he guards JJ or Chill). If you MAKE Iverson play defense and possibly pick up 3 fouls in the first half, you have a great chance to be up by double digits at half time.

I know Lue made millions of dollars off of his defense on Iverson before, but that was a younger Lue and on a championship team who had the refs in their back pocket (Lue fouled Iverson at least 3 times on one possession alone). I hope tonight could be a night where Lue registers 5-12 minutes at the MOST.

Sorry to bring up trades, well not really, but I wish the Hawks could package up a good deal to trade for Maggette. I think with him, JJ, Marvin, and Smooth, the scoring would be set for a good while. The Hawks have so many ‘dead’ possesions that all of them could still realistically score over 18 a game and be happy.

By the way, I never was saying anyone was wrong b/c they didn’t play a game in the league. I was saying making a comment that it is easy to do, when a player can be suffering from so many distractions, isn’t a good thing to say. Many times, the easiest things are the hardest things to do.

By BosnianBaller

January 14, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

I agree.There is no way they would do a re-do if atlanta made the protest.The punk a* comish looks out for the big teams

By I.MUS WRITE

January 14, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

G Hunt -thats funny, I have never been married, but my married guy friends all tell me the same thing….. “just wait” “make sure its what you want”- and in some extreme cases “I would chew my arm off to get away from this bych” my god man iz marriage that bad LOL

By Wink from Lithonia

January 14, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Has the NBA addressed the crowd “do over”?

Say I was a fan in attendance the night the Hawks beat Miami in overtime. My ticket gave me the right to see the conclusion of that game. Now I am told I did not see what I saw, so I should be able to go see the conclusion of the game’s 51.9 seconds.

Now say I can’t get a ticket for the Hawks / Miami game scheduled for the night of the “do over” am I SOL. I should not be denied my 51.9 seconds, just as Shaq, in hindsight is denied his.

What security company could handle the musical chairs for both games in time for the start of the second game…hmmmm!

If admission is denied, so should the Miami protest…but I digress with all this… fans have no voice…we just provide the funding for the little Dictator that could…very Bush like!!!

By noah

January 14, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

This is some very biased thinking. I’m from Portland (live in Colorado Springs) hate the Heat and wish the Hawks would finally become a decent team in the East. The point is, I have no bias either way, heck I might even be inclined to be biased against the Heat. The game should absolutely be replayed. I’m not sure what “lack of facts” Sekou is talking about, and all of his conjecture and bad analgoies don’t help his case. Shaq should have been playing those final 51 seconds and he was not allowed to. That is a big deal and given the Hawks problems with scorekeeping in the past and after reading this idiots aritcle and the ridiculous (and ridiulously biased) responses (all of the “i want to do high school over” or “i want to redo my first marriage” make absolutely no sense and I’m not sure how can’t even come close to relating them to the topic at hand) I think I’ll be rooting for the Heat in this one. And if you knew me, that’s saying something.

By Curious

January 14, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

What was the original line on the game? How does Vegas handle it if the result changes from the original outcome?

By Volman

January 14, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Why doesn’t the NBA Do-Over the Hawks vs. Cavs game from Cleveland??

If you guys remember, T-Lue hit a three pointer that the referees completely missed and counted as a two. There were many times at the end of the game where the Hawks were down three or possibly four points, but doesn’t that one point make a difference? How about it being a one possession game compared to a two-possession?

It’s a long shot, but it might have been something to look at.

Hopefully this whole Heat crap will end up on a positive note…

Let’s get a win against the Nuggets!!!

See you at Philips

By doc

January 14, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

noah sometimes folks miss the boat and you may have. it is huge to make this kind of redo and it is very out of character. let the refs keep track of the info is the best way to make sure these problems continue but are out of the teams hands. heh heh

By The Flash

January 14, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

Washington is a better team without Arenas. I have been saying it for two years; it now has been proven.

Arenas is spectacular, and, when he is on, he can beat you by his own self which is good because he CANNOT involve the bigs in the game. CANNOT. And, it is not possible to win without involving the bigs in the offense. It just doesn’t work (you hearing me Woody, who, no freakin person born in this Universe would mention his name in the same sentence as my man Larry (epning you, Doc).

So, the Zards are a better team this year in my opinion than they’ve been in the past, especially now that Changala (spelling, ugh) is coming around. Guy is extremely tough on both ends and gets good baskets inside the defense, in close or from 15 feet or so). With Heyward involved offensively, he plays better defense and makes plays, includes key defensive plays, key rebounds, key put backs, that make all the difference during key points. That don’t happen with Gilbert playing. Just the way it works.

Larry will make this a better team immediately. A part from having forgotten more more about the game, particularly the offensive game, then Woody ever knew, what sets Brown a part is his ability to understand how each individual can be deployed effectively, coming up with a mode of play that will take advantage of that effective play, helping each player to understand, learn, how to see and perform in a manner that will be effective, and getting the rest of the team to understand how that player can contribute maximally.

It is called communication, which in the world of sport is different than say, a math class. Larry helps individuals make progress in their individual game skills and in their ability to understand how those skills fit with the style of play being employed; how to understand what other team members do well and how a player can help each of his teammates do what they do well get the opportunity to do it, etc.

That is what makes him a great practice coach. It also helps make him a great bench coach. When he pulls a guy aside and gives him a suggestion about how the guy can be more effective, the guy understands him and can translate that help into action. The ability to communicate on that level is an extraordinary gift; Larry has always had it. Few coaches do.

The other thing that makes Larry to be a great bench coach was the same thing that made him a starter on the 1964 Olympic team (at least I think that he started) at 5’ 10” or whatever he is. He sees and understands the game as it unfolds; knows what will work in the next minute; and can organize the forces at hand so they can deploy according to his vision.

Woody is the same as Larry? Yikes!

I can’t believe that I missed the opportunity this weekend twice to see the guys play. Friday night my wife got me to go to a dinner party (she hasn’t asked me to go to one of those in years; for this, Astro, I blame you with your big ideas for how to spend New Years); and then against Chicago. I’m really tempted to splurge on that NBA pass.

By doc

January 14, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

flash you are a dollar and a day or two short. the guy to talk to is i.mus. keep me out of this one as i know i can NEVER win one with you.

“PRACTICE, YOU MEAN PRACTICE”!!!

By jamilliondadon

January 14, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

3 thingswrong wit hawks.1 da offense jj is nice,but he is no kobe,lebron,wade so stop running da offense thru him 2 me i c Al as a quicker TD, i’ll run da offense thru him out dat a create space 4 jj 2 get his shots off.instead of all this standingaround waiting on him.2 pg play we r a bibby,kid,miller,from being da next utah phoenix. 3 a good coach coaches 2 his teams strengths woody coaches2 our weaknesses. we ain’t da pistons so y play like dem.we have all da other pieces.

By jamillion

January 14, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

hawks have all pieces except quality point,i’ll snatchup bibby,& coach. a coach is supposed 2 get da best out of his players and teams strengths,woody does da exact opposite,he coaches2 our opponents strengths & 2 our weaknesses.we arent da pistons so y do we try 2 emulate dem.wit bibby we’ll b wat we r a gs phoenix wit better d.All da pieces r herelockdown defender wit hustle west,highliteshotblocker smith,6man chil,sniper salim,post al,scorer jj.

By AJCfanatic

January 14, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

I was at this game sitting right behinnd the statistician and i’ll tell you why he made that mistake.. because he had his eyes covered and couldn’t watch the god awful officiating anymore.. This is a joke.. Pat Riley is a joke.. Shaq should go back to acting because he’s a joke.. and there was a stint in the game of 10 minutes where the refs called 8 fouls on the the hawks and ZERO on the heat.. good point sekou

By reese

January 14, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Doc, yes, the smart play would have been to slow down and try to have the final shot in the game.

However, I can live with the aggressive play of taking it to the basket strong with 11 seconds left in the game.

The problem is that Marvin did not take it to the basket strong and therefore the play failed. Luckily, we still were able to go into overtime after JS blocked caron butler’s shot.

By FeudFinder

January 14, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

I just hope that the hawks demolish the old-legged heat. But then maybe, we will have to reschedule it again. What a joke!!!

By ray

January 14, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Reese, I keep reading where some experts have kept saying how strong Marvin is. Haven’t seen it yet myself. In fact, I don’t recall him ever getting himself into a 3-point play situation. I’m sure someone could dig it up…although how you’d prove it is beyond me. He doesn’t finish well unless he’s open. Period. That includes his jumpers. It’s a flaw. It can be worked out…

But is there anyone the organization has around to teach guys like him these kinds of things? Nooooooooooo…

Flash, you are so right about the involvement of the bigs. As far as Woody goes, I’m on and off his bandwagon. He seems like a good guy but frustrates the absolute dog crap out of me with some of his decisions.

Astro Joe, you’re right about Solomon Jones not being some wonder-find. At the same time, he’s not gotten playing time, so pardon if we get excited about the production he has provided when he’s not been playing at all, and for so long. But he’s not in the same situation as Mario. They’re not even remotely the same kind of player, didn’t even come from the same kind of background.

Mario had to show his worth, given his size and what not. Solomon just had to be tall, block shots, jump well, and dunk to be drafted. Now he knows he has to be good at other things, and much better at what he is able to do. He’ll get there if he gets the playing time, I believe.

One thing is for sure: he’s got longer arms and jumps higher than Shelden. Add some muscle and he’s an upgrade. And that’s without the offensive capability.

By Clyde

January 15, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

Marcus Camby is skinny as I don’t know what and he’s the reigning defensive player of the year. He had 23 rebounds and 6 blocks to go along with his 20 points. To me Solomon is CAN be a Marcus Camby type player to this team. He could give us much needed help in the middle. I still think he should start.

FREE SOLOMON JONES

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Surya

January 15, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Waaaaaahhhh

Stop crying about it. How pathetic.

Keep on being mediocre year after year and I’ll just pop in my Heat Championship box set to tide me over until next season.

By smartguy

January 15, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Surya, I don’t blame you. Heck, watching re-runs of Hope and Faith would be better than watching the Heat. So, how many times have you seen that video? Probably a couple hundred by now, and if thats your cup of tea, I hope you can get used to it for several years to come.

Just like Pat bashing us early in the year, you’ll get it handed to you again and again. If picking on the Hawks makes the Heat feel better, then thats okay. While the Hawks are busy focusing on the playoffs, the Heat are focused on the Hawks and winning the draft lotto.

By ray

January 15, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Guess I’d feel that way too if my team had gone from championship contender/winner all the way down to trying to figure out how to get to 10 wins..HA!

Last I looked, they have the NBA’s biggest center, a true superstar, a pure scorer, couple of pure shooters…the best back-up center in the game (who could start on a lot of teams)..the list goes on. Pat Riley is killing that team, and he already mortagaged the future. I feel bad particularly for Wade. He doesn’t deserve this. He’s up there with Kobe and Lebron. Riley is too controlling, too demanding.

By Astro Joe

January 15, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

ray I have been very critical of Woody in the past but I also recall listening to the SL games and Solomon looked lost even against poor players back then. He is the very definition of “raw” and we clearly do not have the requisite tutors to help out a player like him. I have long thought that the NBDL would serve him better than the current situation.

Like Clyde, i view his upside as being a “poor man’s Camby”. I truly believe that if he were previously ready to provide low post help for 12-18 minutes, that he would be out there. While his circumstances are different, I still believe that if he could find that hunger that West so clearly possess, Solomon would find himself on the court more often.

My initial thought when I saw him on the floor? BK is looking to move a big man and either they need to see if Solomon is close to be ready (so they can feel better about moving Xaxa/Shelden/Lo) or a twam is looking to bring in Solomon and they first needed to see if he is any better than those horrid tapes they have from the summer league. I simply don’t buy Woody’s assertion that he wanted Solomon to play against the more athletic Chicago front line. That sounds far too logical for Woody.

By yessir

January 15, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

FIRE CLYDE T-SHIRTS TONIGHT PORTAL 9 SEC 117. CLYDE SHUT UP PLEASE!!!!!!THAT SH-T IS GETTING OLD. THE TEAM IS GETTING BETTER EVERY YEAR. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT.

By terrell barron

January 15, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Start Chill, bring Marvin off the bench. He deserves it.

By terrell barron

January 15, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

If we could move Zaza, Sheldon, and T-Lue for a decent center. We could then bring Chills and Marvin off the bench, to relieve Josh and Al. Our bench would be one of the best in the League.

By cp

January 15, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

I think they did an article talking about why Solomon struggled during the summer league. He had been working out and trying to add muscle the whole summer and etc instead of actualy playing ball. So of course he looked kinda lost out there but the guy showed last season that with some decent minutes he will give u some production. I dont think he has been playing ball that long anyway so yea he is very raw and given that I would still give him more minutes that Sheldon “cement feet, brick hands” Williams. We really could use another shooter but I have no idea who is available. Moving Marvin to the bench would in my opinion backfire. I feel that Childress plays better off the bench than Marvin would. Childress understands what he needs to do when he comes off the bench I think Marvin would probably be even more hesitant coming off the bench but hey who knows. We need this win against Denver. Score might be a very high one.

By randy

January 15, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

“Wahhh, Wahhh, Waaaahhhh!! I wanna RE-DO!! RE-DO!! Waaah Waahh WAAAAHHH!!”

-Pat Riley

By TJ

January 15, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

It’s been a while since I’ve blogged…but the events of this past weekend made me leave my school-induced sabbatical.

Wade with 22 free throws. Shaq fouling out…the ONLY reason this is occurring is because Shaq is involved. It’s as if Stern is inferring the Hawks won because Shaq was fouled out..Um, the Heat are the worst team in the league, even worse than the T-Wolves, in my opinion. Maybe the Hawks lost because they played like it that night. Why derail and up and coming team’s momentum like that?! Are you trying to make ATL fans mad and go to games? Is that it?

I made that point because Miami is the worst team in the league getting national television exposure EVERY WEEK. Either ABC, ESPN, or TNT, they’re on, and they lose. They got stomped by the Hornets, another team coincidentally struggling to bring in money but still deserving of more airtime (because…..THEY’RE GOOD!) I think that since Stern has made national

By ronald

January 15, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

this is one of the dumbest team in all of sports from the coach to the GM to the player i have never seem a team that don’t have commin sence can’t thank Marvin William will never be our favor player DWilliam and C.Pauls

By TJ

January 15, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

It’s been a while since I’ve blogged…but the events of this past weekend made me leave my school-induced sabbatical.

Wade with 22 free throws. Shaq fouling out…the ONLY reason this is occurring is because Shaq is involved. It’s as if Stern is inferring the Hawks won because Shaq was fouled out..Um, the Heat are the worst team in the league, even worse than the T-Wolves, in my opinion. Maybe the Hawks lost because they played like it that night. Why derail and up and coming team’s momentum like that?! Are you trying to make ATL fans mad and go to games? Is that it?

I made that point because Miami is the worst team in the league getting national television exposure EVERY WEEK. Either ABC, ESPN, or TNT, they’re on, and they lose. They got stomped by the Hornets, another team coincidentally struggling to bring in money but still deserving of more airtime (because…..THEY’RE GOOD!) I think that since Stern has made national media out of this Hawks-Heat “debacle”, he should give this game (these games) national airtime. Tim Donaghy and “scandal” have both fallen away from national attention, but it’s made Stern go out of his mind. Anywho, we’ll win again, and then again..and Stern can sit his money-greedy, image-hooker self down. C’mon, man, get it together!

By Professor

January 15, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Even though we have to play the last minute over we were up by 3 and we should pull it out with a couple of stops. Foul Shaq and make him beat us on the line if he even looks like he wants to touch the ball.

By TJ

January 15, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Now that I’ve gotten that off of my chest, I can talk about the big game tonight against Denver:

Gerald Wallace dropped 40 on Denver last night. There’s NO reason for JJ not to score 30 tonight. Something tells me that Marvin will have the 20-footer to himself all night long. We have to hit them hard early - a back-to-back for Denver. The keys tonight: low turnovers (obvious), rebounding (obvious), and defensive matchups; JJ should guard Carmelo; who should guard AI? He avgs 30 ppg against the Hawks. Marvin? Childs? Acie? We’ll see what the defensive master/offensive slave Woodson has in mind. Other than Camby, Denver is small. Solomon appearance again? I think it’s likely.

I need to get a hold of NBA League Pass - this is gonna be a highlight-filled, high scoring game. For us to win, JJ and JSmash need to play like All-Stars, just like Wallace did last night.

GO HAWKS! I expect a victory…

By terrell barron

January 15, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

The Lakers need some depth in the middle with Bynum going down. Lets see if we can send them Sheldon and Zaza for Turiaf.

By Jay D

January 15, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

Can we have a do-over with that travel call on Marvin at mid court against the Wizards?

By doc

January 15, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

prof, i think we were only up by 1 with someone going to the foul line to put us up by three. i think the redo starts with the foul so we still have to shoot the foul shots over.

amazing some folks (idiots) come here and try to act pompous with their team having the second worst record in the league, even lower than seattle.

By JohnD

January 15, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

The game resumes at 51.9 with the Hawks leading by 3. Shaq’s presence, or in this case - nonpresence, will have no effect on the 2 free throws made.

The game will begin when the Heat inbounds from the base line and Shaq may or may not be in the game. If the Heat follows the same plan as in the prior games in December then Shaq probably will not be in the game. He has been a non-factor in the December games up to the protested game.

By JohnD

January 15, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

The questions of a do-over for this or for that are an example of how poor a decision was made in the Hawk/Heat problem.

The league, starting at the top, is in big trouble. David Stern has stayed past his prime and the owners lack cohesive leadership. The Hawks are just a sample of how the league operates.

The great franchises in sport have been run by ONE man. There may be a successful example of management by committee is sports but one does not come to mind. OK, Green Bay is owned by the people but still managed by ONE.

The bickering by the Hawk owners needs to stop. Somebody step up and buy the others out so we can move forward.

By Astro Joe

January 15, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

I’m watching the game on NBALP and the Hawks are looking very similar to the way they looked early against the Bulls. Running and gunning and leading by 16 early in 2nd quarter. This time, it looks like Marvin has his sweet stroke back. Nuggets look a little tired (they played tight contest last night) and Hawks are taking advantage.

And Solomon is playing again.

By terrell barron

January 15, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

We’ll be back tied for the 6th spot, with a win tonight and a Cleveland loss.

By terrell barron

January 15, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Hey Astro, keep filling us in, as much as possible. I’m checking out the Pistons and Raptors on NBA TV, and checking the Hawks score continuosly. I know that big lead wont last, so I have to keep looking. Hopefully we can put them away in the 3rd, but when have we ever put a team away?

By terrell barron

January 15, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Astro, who’s guarding AI? How is Solomom lookikg? Is Horford staying out of foul trouble? Is Joe still on fire? Is Acie playing well? Let us know something.

By ray

January 15, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, you’re probably dead on the money there. It does sound too logical for Woody. Your other ideas got me to thinking…

Damn! Are we beating Denver by frickin’ 19 points? And ‘Melo, A.I., and Camby are playing? Wow. I like the sound of that. And why the hell ain’t this on TV?! Shoulda bought that League Pass…. I better not see a 4th quarter collapse.

By Astro Joe

January 15, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

Nuggets are making their run. Hawks up by 13 with 8 minutes left. Lue is getting a lot of PT against AI. JJ has been matched up against Melo, along with Marvin. Hawks stopped running and Nuggets are closing in. Hawks shot something like 55% thru 3 quarters. Nuggets play ZERO defense (other than Camby). Haven’t seen Solomon since 1st half (had to put my kids to bed so maybe he had a cameo appearance in 3rd quarter). They just showed Jermaine Dupree on Nuggets broadcast and the announcers had NO CLUE who he was. They talked about the scarf he was wearing. Hawks shoting poorly at free throw line again.

By Astro Joe

January 15, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Hawks can LITERALLY get a layup every time down the court if they choose. Law has played solid defense. Back up to 16 point lead with Horford going to charity strike after TV timeout.

If we lose this game, it will be because we decided to shoot jumpers and/or missed a ton of late game free throws. I’ve seen better defense in pick-up games. Hawks should have 30 assists when this game is over.

By Astro Joe

January 15, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Former Hawk Scott Hastings is the Nuggets color analyst. JR Smith is bombing from 3 while Melo and AI do their thing. Every time Nuggets get it to 12, Hawks answer with layup. 13 lead with 3:30 left in game.

By cp

January 15, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Will someone please inform Woody that when we run and get a big lead we should keep running and stop that walking the ball up the court crap as soon as the second half starts.

By mykhalc

January 15, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

did not like the backcourt of LUE and ACIE!!! ain’t happenin’!!!

By Astro Joe

January 15, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

8 point lead with 1:27 and Nuggets have the ball. Uh oh. Hawks are imploding. AJ carry. Bad drive by JJ. Poor shot by Smith.

By mykhalc

January 15, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

team looks really shaky tryin’ to close it out!!!

By Astro Joe

January 15, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

AJ just shoved AI and the refs missed it and it was a TO on NUggets. JJ comes down court and drops the ball out of bounds. Ref missing yet another foul on AI and AI gets 2 techs. Then JR SMith decides to jump into the fray (for no apparent reason) and gets toosed too. 11 point lead with less than 30 seconds.

By mykhalc

January 15, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

officials gave the HAWKS 2 calls against AI to seal the deal…

NUGGETS want a do-over!!!!

By terrell barron

January 15, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

They always look shaky trying to close out a game. I WONDER WHY?

By terrell barron

January 15, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Maybe its just part of learning how to win. Or is it poor coaching? What do yall think?

By mykhalc

January 15, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

would WOODSON have anythin’ to do with the shakiness???? ahhhhh….yep

By doc

January 15, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

aj thanks for the running updates. clever that this game wasnt on tv. too bad. a win is a win for now, with stern around one cant be too sure of even that.

are we at .500 or are we .95 of a win over?

By Ryder

January 15, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

It’s part of learning how to win games down the stretch. This team will need to continue doing this after what happened on Friday against Washington. They let one get away from them and it seemed to light a fire under them.

Glad to see the ESPN folks giving JJ love as a potential All-Star. I think they will have to if the Hawks continue to stay at .500 this year. Great win and let’s hope they can continue this tomorrow against Milwaukee. NO time for Atlanta to get over confident!

By Steve T

January 15, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

To fix the owner mess is simple…. boot Belkins. Belkins could not see the direction BK wanted to take this team. He told them how good JJ was and Belkin balked.

By Matt

January 15, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

I love it. The Hawks easily win a game by double-digits. They never trailed, and the Nuggets never got closer than 8 in the second half. And yet Woody still didn’t do enough to satisfy some people around here. It’s just amusing at this point.

We won - in fact we dominated. We were never in danger of losing this game after the first quarter, and we did it against a playoff team with two superstars. That’s a great win.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

By The Flash

January 15, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

Astro’s report that JJ was guarding Melo down the stretch is encouraging. Great move by Woody. JJ has the strength to give Melo trouble, the foot speed to stay with him on the move, and the smarts to make Melo take what he least wants.

Putting JJ on Melo says to me that Woody is starting to really see other options down the stretch besides JJ, which is terrific. Not because JJ cannot get it done obviously, but because of the load up factor. Besides, JJ might well be the stopper against other team’s go-to guys down the stretch. Can’t carry the big load on both ends. Not to say that you don’t look for JJ to score the ball in cruch time, just that he doesn’t have to. He can let the game come to him, and focus on making a crucial stop, which just might be in the form of making a guy take a shot other than the one or two options he’d most prefer.

Good one for Woody. JJ, if I’m understanding things correctly, is chosing to become the team’s real leader, which is different, much different, than being The Man. Good for him!

By mykhalc

January 15, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Matt, then you watched a different game than i did. ‘cause there was NOTHIN’ sure or dominatin’ about the last 3 minutes of the game. they were one basket away from collapse. you could see in their lack of offense and their body language comin’ down the stretch. they scored 1 pt over 4 minutes at one point. and you can attribute that to whatever you want but it’s a fact that they are not closin’ out games, they are holdin’ on!!! and yes, it was a win but good teams know how to close it out. they don’t just try to hang on!!!! and there is a difference despite them both resultin’ in a ‘W’!!!!

By Astro Joe

January 15, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Closing out games usually requires very effective PG play which we don’t yet have consistently. Teams typically are willing to play hard-nose defense when they are down and trying to make that late run. So it becomes increasingly difficult to run and the need to convert in half-court sets becomes more pronounced. Eventually, I think that Horford may become a solid low-post scorer who can help us close out games. Same with Law (hopefully) by scoring in the lane. I’m not too concerned with our inability to maintain huge leads. This ain’t college football where each win must also come with style and a large point spread.

By mykhalc

January 15, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

and i can almost guarantee that if the ref had not GIVEN the HAWKS the 2 non-calls against AI we would have seen an entirely different outcome!!! it was sooooo evident that their mental toughness is just not there yet!! growin’…yes…but not there…yet!!!!

By Matt

January 15, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

mykhalc,

First, I assume no one actually “saw” this game considering that it wasn’t televised. Second, you wanna gripe about a team that had dominated for 43 minutes letting their guard down when they were up by 17 with 5 minutes left? Fine. I’d hate to be your gal, dude, because apparently you’re a tough guy to make happy. The Hawks were never in danger of losing that game. Up 8 with 1:47 and 1:27 left while you have possession is still a relatively safe lead.

I’m sorry that playing dominating defense - to the point where only 5 opponents scored in the entire game. I’m sorry that they held the Nuggets to 40% from the floor and forced them into 17 turnovers. I’m sorry that the Hawks let their guard down once the game was in the bag.

I’m sorry that the Hawks aren’t perfect enough for you.

By mykhalc

January 15, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Matt, so does that mean you saw the game or did not see the game??? i watched the game!!! so i’m not pullin’ somethin’ outta my a$$!!! and if you don’t think that the HAWKS can’t lose an 8 point lead in 1:47 then you my friend have not been watchin’ the HAWKS very long!!!!

perfecton i’m not lookin’ for but closin’ out games strongly, i am!!!!

By reese

January 16, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

First of all, great win hawks. I was at the game tonight and the hawks played a great first half and were able to survive the 2nd half.

Ray, Marvin is most effective during quarters 1 thru 3. He had a monster uncontested dunk in the first quarter and his shot was looking smooth. He doesn’t look to shoot in the 4th quarter.

The hawks slowed the game down in the 3rd quarter. They were playing to nurse the lead and not to increase the lead.

Woodson played all kinds of lineups through out the game in the first half. At 1 point the lineup was JC at 5, MW at 4, JJ at 3, AC law at 2 and t lue at point.

Mario and Solomon played some token minutes and both played well enough to get some playing time in second half. Didn’t happen until less than 30 seconds left in the game.

I liked the fact that several players were scoring for the hawks. Additionally, they played great team defense. JS and Ah had some nice blocks and even marvin was contesting shots.

However, Denver’s JR Smith and Carmello were hitting their shots in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Iverson was getting a lot of touch fouls that sent him to the free throw line. Denver missed a lot of free throws and no one else beside Denver’s Smith, Carmello and Iverson could consistently score.

The hawks were able to exploit their guard size advantage over denver’s shorter carter and iverson. The exploitation was more on the defensive end than the offensive end. I don’t think that carter made a shot all night.

I didn’t see lorenzen sitting on the bench. Did I miss a trade or something.

By terrell barron

January 16, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

Marvin was 1 reb away from a double double at 19 and 9. If we can get that from him every night, we will be hard to beat. We all have to remember that he is still the youngest player on the team. Horford is even older than he is. GREAT WIN! we should be 18-16 Mr. Stern. If we lose that redo game, I’m protesting myself. You never know, that could cost us a playoff spot.

By Volman

January 16, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Myk, I am going to have to disagree with you on your point that the outcome would have been different if the Hawks didn’t “get the calls”, so to speak.

It’s awful tough to come back in such a short amount of time, and I’m pretty sure the Hawks could have ended it up like they did, in victory.

Be happy, you were one of few to see the first three quarters of domination by the Hawks. It’s just human nature to let up and take it easy when you’re winning by so much..Even the great teams do it (The Spurs against the Hawks in Philips when the Hawks had their second team in with Mario West and came back to be down 6 or 8 points in the third).

The Hawks just need to learn how to stomp on their necks and not let up.

Go get ‘em tonight, Hawks!

By Sean C

January 16, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

if the heat are where they are now when this fiasco happened, do you think they would file the protest?

now theyre looking at just losing that game twice. im sure that will feel good. really what is the point, they already fined us. they have nothing to play for. i think they should just go ahead and take back their request, and concede the loss. dont waste time and possible injuries on this.

By terrell barron

January 16, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Make that 18-17. I want to redo that Wizards game. Why shouldnt we protest T-Lue’s 3 ptr? Didnt we lose by 1.

By Astro Joe

January 16, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Pay attention to what happens with Hossa. I was listening to Kincade yesterday evening and he said that rumor has it that the Thrashers Hossa (who is about to be an UFA) is leaning on NOT returning to the Thrashers. Evidently, the terms of the contract they presented to him weren’t bad but he has concerns about the stability of the ownership situation.

The Thrashers GM is in a tough position. He may be forced to trade theri 2nd best player before the trade deadline to ensure they get something back for him. At the same time, they are in the middle of competing for a playoff berth this season. Trading away a blue chip player like Hossa for future talent is NOT the way to get in the playoffs.

I bring all of this up because we have Smith & Childress and Marvin the following year. The Broke Spirit (as Doc would say), may ultimately have to choose to spend a dollar with the Hawks or Thrashers. Hossa or Smoove? What an F’ing mess.

By Ken Strickland

January 16, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Unfortunitly, I missed the last 2gms, but I’ve gotten a feel for what happened through your posts and updates. Thanks fellows. Our won/loss record, at this point, shouldn’t be our most important consideration. We just put together 2 consecutive wins in impressive fashion. Even our losses are becoming more impressive, except for the Indy gm. We are starting to push teams to the limit in most of our losses. We are also starting to consistently get large leads against viable opponents. We simply need to figure out how to hold on to those leads, and finish gms off better.

These young Hawks are really starting to build a solid foundation. Teams are now having to play their “A” gm in order to defeat us. And even then we could be victorious in a lot of those gms with better free throw shooting. We are now getting consistency from JJ, Horford, JSmith, MWilliams and JChildress. We need better overall production from our bench, besides childress, better free throw shooting, and more consistent and aggressive PG play.

I think the players are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I also like the fact Woodson is starting to let SJones and MWest get a taste of action. I hope he finally realizes how important a player like Salim can be to this team during a playoff run. GOOD LUCK TONIGHT YOU HIGH FLYING HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By ray

January 16, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Wow, what a win. Marvin had a nice game. Which helped, because Smoove didn’t have such a nice game. Meanwhile, Chill seems to be buckin’ for Sixth Man of the Year again.

I would like to see Law’s minutes stay up. I’d also like to see him encouraged to penetrate/shoot more. I feel like we’ll get more steady play from the pg position that way. AJ won’t end up playing such heavy minutes, and we’ll still have a pg who defends well and can penetrate well.

Reese, thanks for the analysis and what not. I think part of our deal with closing out games is that everybody wants to step up in the first 3 quarters, then want to defer to JJ throughout the 4th. We need guys like Marvin to help carry the load. Same with Acie and everybody else. Smoove is one of basically two or maybe 3 guys who will take it to the opposition late in the game, and he’s still learning how to do it (hence some of the horrendous plays that often result in turnovers). JJ can’t be having to do this all on his own.

Astro Joe, you hit on something I’ve been kinda whining about for a while now: Horford’s involvement in the offense. Yes, he can definitely be a part of what helps us close out games. You’re right: teams have to play half court sets alot when the grind is on. That’s when going to him will make a difference. I believe he’ll come through for us, especially when he gets used to the idea. The guy has incredible determination. More importantly, that gives teams something to worry about other than JJ, which they all know to key on late in games. Nothing like an inside/outside punch. Furthermore, guys like Acie and Marvin can/should step up late in games. Acie can penetrate, and we all know Marvin will kill you with that midrange jumper, particularly if he has a bit of room to get it off. There’s no reason why this can’t be incorporated NOW. Woody needs to push this.

Matt, while I tend to agree with Mykhalc on Woody, I’ll say that he didn’t fail the team. They won, although it apparently was shaky towards the end. Then again, you’re talking about playing against two determined all-stars. The fact is, our game plan is so dang limited when it comes to fourth quarter and end-of-game play. We run the same plays: 1)give it to JJ and hope he makes something happen, 2)give it to Lue (if he’s playing) and let him pound the ball for 20 seconds while trying to find a shot over taller defenders, 3) give it to Josh Smith with 2-5 seconds left on the clock. Teams know what to expect. What is needed is a change in game plan. Involve Horford in the offense more, particulary in the 4th quarter as Astro Joe said. Involve Marvin more, he’s an offensive threat. Encourage Acie to score, not just bring the ball up the court and pass it. He can penetrate. Let the guy shoot more, he’ll get more comfortable and make more shots. The lack of comfort is why he’s not making them much now.

Fact is, Mykahlc may be right. If JR and A.I. don’t get tossed, this could have been a bit different. We may have still won, but then maybe not. As the season wears on, games like this will be much tougher to win, because games will mean more: the difference between making the playoffs and not making them. And teams will know just how to load up on us. And while you can attribute execution to players, game plans fall squarely on the coach’s shoulders. Easy to defend the coach when players aren’t hitting free throws or are turning the ball over. However, when the game plan is flawed, you can’t let the coach off the hook. But then, this argument usually is the product of point of view, and possibly fueled by past experiences as either a player or a coach.

By ray

January 16, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

I’m not one to complain about our team’s record, particularly this late in the season. It’s been a pleasant surprise for me. The thing is, I’m not one to rest on the laurels of near or at .500 record. A little fine tuning is always needed.

Case in point (no pun intended). Remember the pg arguments we had pre-draft? I do. Remember the things people said about Law, Conley, and Crittenton. Conley was too small and couldn’t shoot at all. Law was the most experienced guy and could shoot. Crittenton had the most upside, size, and raw talent (some said).

Well, the smurf of the group (Conley) is now the starter on his team, and has learned how to shoot. Last I saw, he had 20 pts, 7 assists, and had gone well over %50 from the floor, including 2-3 from beyond the arc. His coach says he’s stronger and longer armed than he initially appeared. He has taken the reins from Stoudamire and his production has gone steadily up.

Meanwhile, Law has seen his minutes go up, down, and perhaps now back up. He doesn’t hit many jumpshots but does get to the rim. His defense is usually solid. But where’s that shot and that scoring mentality?

Crittenton? Well, he can’t crack the rotation. Can’t get past the shorter, slower, smaller Jordan Farmar. Or anybody else for that matter.

What’s my point? It’s as much about the system and coach as it is about the player. Phil Jackson doesn’t like rookies so much. Especially rookies that aren’t uber-talented, can’t-miss types. Especially when you have to play them next to Kobe. He don’t like rooks either. Besides, Kobe and the gang are doing well right now. You have to keep that delicate balance on stable ground.

Conley’s coach believes in him. Conley went and learned to shoot better. My guess is he hit the gym extra hard, and perhaps the organization had a shooting coach work with him. You won’t find that in Atlanta for some strange reason. Conley is the Grizzlies future. And he’s getting better by the day. Ivaroni hasn’t just tasked him with ball distribution, he’s allowed and encouraged him to go in there and score. It shows.

Acie. Well, he’s apparently been asked to do nearly the opposite of what he did his entire college career. Looks like he’s doing it for the most part. An ankle injury kind of slowed him down for a while. This guy acts like he doesn’t know what a jumpshot is anymore. He acts like Conley looked prior to being drafted: jumpshot-shy. Why? Why isn’t he going to the hole more? After all the shooting the guy did in college, you can’t tell me he doesn’t know how to shoot.

It’s as much about the system and the coach…as it is about the player.

By Astro Joe

January 16, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Ray, I agree that system and coach are absolutely critical. But so is opportunity. Memphis is in a position where they can hand over the reigns to Conley. Yeah, he scored 20 last night, but he didn;t score 20 in his first few games after being handed the starting gig. And as importantly, the team is still NOT winning. Now that we’re hovering within a full game of a #5 seed, we’re not in a position to give Law the ball and 32+ minutes a game.

Let’s face it, there is a reason why most ROYs come from losing teams. Its not just because those teams were in a position to draft premium talent. They are also in position to play that premium talent for extended minutes without consequence (see Durant’s putrid shooting percentage in his 1st month). Paul, Deron, Roy, Durant nor Conley were coached in their rookie year by guys who were basically told “playoffs or a pink slip”.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 16, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Good points Ray, Conley is showing me more than Law right now. He was a pure point coming out of college, long arms and really athlectic- the knock on him was he couldnt shoot.

I think he has found his stroke-the young guy is putting up numbers right now-I liked conley last draft -just not at #3. I think he may become the best of the 3 (Law Crit Conley) Dont sleep on my man Farmar he has game -i would trade Acie Law right now for that guy… when i watch the Lakers play I cant help but think what he would do here, but then i remembered how we dont develope yung talent well, and came to the conclusion Farmar would be in the NBDL if he came here.

Cant wait til June -get the right guy in here the fans deserve it… sick of looking at Woody’s mug with folded arms

By ray

January 16, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

One thing is for sure: things are much better here right now than they are in Chicago. Ben Wallace is a thief. Stole $60 million from the Bulls. Furthermore, he’s a hypocrite, calling for Joakim Noah’s suspension to be for two games instead of one. It was he who displayed similar antics (if not worse) while in Detroit under Flip Saunders, and then got into it with Scott Skiles over something as stupid as a head-band. What a moron. On top of that, it is all players (or many of them, anyway): they refused to play for Skiles, getting him fired and now they’re making Jim Boylan look stupid for taking the interim job. Poor Guy.

Our guys certainly have more class than that. Of course, we’re also winning more games as well. And just think: some of us were talking about Josh Smith and his “attitude problems.” Haven’t seen or heard even a hint of such a thing this year, as I strongly suspected we wouldn’t. Where are his doubters now, hmmmm?

By ray

January 16, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Astro Joe, nicely put indeed. Especially the very last part. That’s one of the reasons I said it’s about the system and the coach. The system is made up of 1)what the owners are willing to spend the money on, and 2)the roster that’s constructed by the GM. The coach has to work with the product that those two entities put before him. And when the coach’s ability and philosophy isn’t well-matched with what the GM has put together, well, you can see the results on any team that this happens to. Look at Chicago. And you’re right, from all this springs opportunity.

Memphis isn’t winning, but they will learn to soon. Assuming they don’t do some crazy trade that damages their future. Right now they have Conley and Gay. That’s plenty to start building with if you decide to retool. Imagine if they’d gotten their hands on Horford (anybody in the west would shudder on that one).

Meanwhile, the Lakers are not just winning, they are beating people consistently. Crittenton’s development isn’t just on the back burner right now. It’s not even on the stove.

The only other thing I could say about this is that with the exception of Durant’s coach, I’d take any of the other guys’ coaches in a heartbeat. Jerry Sloan is legend. Ivaroni is probably destined for good things. Byron Scott is doing and will continue to do well. Nate McMillan is special too. Hey, even Durant’s coach is a veteran who knows what he’s doing (PJ Carlesimo). I know Woody works like a dog. He’s a good guy. He still does not inspire confidence in me. The players obviously know things we don’t. But hey, we don’t work with him.

By ray

January 16, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

I.Mus, I’m not sleeping on Farmar. Just illustrating how a guy of reported greater talent and stature doesn’t get past a guy like Farmar, who is physically less impressive. The fact is, Farmar is helping them win. Crittenton is practice fodder right now. Potential is nothing….until realized. Crittenton may be in the wrong place, or simply there at the wrong time. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be a young pg with only a year of college ball, playing next to the very demanding Kobe. Some said the same about Jordan in his day.

By mykhalc

January 16, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Volman, good to hear from you man despite not bein’ in agreement!!!LOL we know you are busy makin’ the grades!!!

and you are right who really knows how things would have played out. my point in all of this is that the team needs to learn how to close games out…PERIOD!!! nothin’ in this team make-up says they know or show how to do that yet. and your example about the SPURS, EVERYTHIN’ in their makeup and history says, chances are, they will NOT give up the lead nor lose the game with large leads. they KNOW how to close out games!!! the HAWKS DO NOT and i would like to see them learn how!!! it’s that simple!!!

BIG RAY, all good points as usual bro. and you hit on a very key point in your post…determination!! yep, you could see MELO and AI ‘determined’ to win the game!! the were on a mission, no doubt. and again, all i’m sayin’ is the HAWKS need to have that same kinda determination to close games out. right now they look shaky…PERIOD!!! and i would hope that someone step up and LEAD the way on this!!! and that includes WOODSON!!!

we see how fragile their mental toughness is right now. until we see differently, we have to know that they can go on a 5 game skid before we know it. and learnin’ to close games out is one way to learn how to prevent those type of extended losin’ streaks.

again i’m not lookin’ for perfection, but lookin’ for them to show a different mindset when it’s time to close the damn game out…PERIOD!!!!!

By randy

January 16, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

What you guys think of Shelden Williams for Mike Bibby? Maybe we can pick up Dahlbert too. I think they are both on trading block.

Think of this: PG: Bibby SG: J. Johnson SF: J. Smith PF: Horford C: Dahlbert

with Marvin and J. Chill off the bench and Horford could still play center when needed.

By randy

January 16, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Apparently, the Heat and Cavs are making Bids for Bibby, but nothing about Atlanta. Come on you fools, make a move! Just don’t trade Josh Smith!!!

By mykhalc

January 16, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

randy, the SPIRIT can barely pay the $50k fine for the HEAT fiasco muchless make a play for BIBBY and his salary!!

By randy

January 16, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Ray,

Good point about Acie Law. But I watched a 5 minute clip on Acie Law highlights pre-draft, and 99% of his highlights were layups. I know he hit some other shots in college but he seems to be mostly a drive to the basket guard. Acie really needs to work on finding a jumper if he is going to be successful in the NBA.

I also was a gung-ho Conley guy 3 weeks before draft, but then I thought Horford and Acie, how can you pass on that?? But, I never the less expected Conley to come back and haunt us one day like Paul and Deron do now. I didn’t think Conley was a #3 either, but I also didn’t think CP3 was a #2 in 2005 (I was thinking Deron Williams or Marvin)…

But hindsight is 20/20 I guess, but as for the now, I don’t know how much we can ride Anthony Johnson. He has done really well and I am happy to see it and hope he continues. But when they bring Acie in, he seems somehow lost out there. He defends very well, but on offense it doesn’t seem like he has the PG court vision yet. Maybe we should make a move for Bibby for a Shelden Williams and Tyron Lue. Hard to say, depends on if Acie can become our PG of the future…

By randy

January 16, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

LOL, good point mykhalc.

Well a .500 record should make the playoffs, but unless we can get some consistent form of outside shooting, I don’t see the Hawks making it past the first round.

By Volman

January 16, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Myk, you saw the game, of course.

What did you think about Solomon? I could have sworn he played more than 3 and a half minutes.

What do you think about Zaza and Shelden being buried at the end of the bench?

AND, what do you think is the problem with the Hawks not being able to completely finish off games?

On a side note:

My favorite player right now has got to be Josh Childress. He is really coming off the bench to bring a spark to this team. He constantly is in the right spot at the right time, and it’s not a coincidence.

Somebody come to Philips and cheer on the Hawks with me! There were so many A.I. and Carmello fans around me last night, it made me sick!

Go Hawks!

By Ryder

January 16, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Ray strong points as always. I feel that the system the Hawks play now is actually going to benefit Law in the long run. See, he is used to being a score-first PG. Had he went to a team like Memphis or even LA he probably wouldn’t have had the opportunity to play much at the point and would’ve been asked to do more shooting, thus hindering his development.

I understand the Hawks don’t yet have the consistent PG play they would like, however I like how they are slowly working Acie into the lineup as AJ continues to give great work as a starter. I believe in two years Acie will be a complete PG. Remember it took Deron Williams a season or two before completely developing into the player he is today. He was a SG at Illinois.

I can’t believe i’m saying this but props to Woody for how he has gotten a tried and true offensive game plan. Yes it all starts with JJ gettting the shots early. If he gets on a roll it has a positive effect on the rest of the team.

Astro Joe I’ve also often wondered why Al hasn’t been more involved if they plan on running a half court offense. Watching that Wizards game Friday night I was literally screaming at my TV to throw it down low. In crunch time it’s imperative to have a low post threat who can make the defense pay for guarding him one on one. I think that by implementing an inside outside offense Atlanta could improve on holding leads down the stretch. Horford is a good passer and can get the ball out to the open man or someone who is cutting towards the basket.

Something to think about as Atlanta heads up north tonight. They will have both Yi and Bogut to deal with. Let’s hope they don’t allow the Bucks’ bench to get hot as they did last time.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

January 16, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Why are people talking about Conley v Law again? The choice was between Conley or Horford at #3. Clearly Horford was the correct move, stats aside (which has him in contention for ROY) where would we be without his presence in the middle? Conley has put together a nice few games, but lets not also forget a couple of things- 1. He was hurt for most of season. 2. He has a better post presence (Pau [former Hawk property] Gasol) and a better shooter in Mike Miller to feed the rock to. This creates opportunity for him. 3. The Griz aren’t going anywhere so there is a bit more freedom for him to do what he has to.

Now between Acie and Crit, Law was the better choice. He is getting his feet wet and knows what his role is. He will be inconsistent for the whole year most likely, but he shows signs- gets to hoop(though misses for now), handles the ball well enough, plays solid D. This isnt NBA Live where we can skip ahead to next season where we should be competing for a top 3 seed in the east. The squad will continue to have up’s, down’s but the crests will outweight the troughs.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 16, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Randy -that line up sounds really good-right here. Right here meaning on this blog or on paper.

Tell me how we can pick up Bibby/Dalembert, and still have money to resign the Joshes in the off season?

Aient going to happen,but if there is a move to be made we should focus on less expensive players -which allows us to keep our young core together. BALLOT 21, or what ever you call yourself - we all know Al was the right choice at #3.

Y compare the 2 why not compare them -the scouts,coaches and GM’s did right before the draft-these two will be linked to each other as long as they are in the NBA. Kind of like CP3 and D Williams Law was considered the best of the PG crop-because he could shoot-that does us no good if he is a dam brick layer. Meanwhile Conley is showing better at this point-so the real question is who is evaluating the talent—-Im guessing the same idiot who picked Sheldon over Roy-

I call it like I see it -until Acie starts knocking dwn shots and stops the turnover -Im going to speak on that -I hope he shuts me up. -itz a long season we’ll see

By Melvin

January 16, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

I know it may be wishful thinking but I think the Hawks should try to acquire JR Smith. He’s type of guy that would give the Hawks good floor balance with his long range shooting and ability to drive to the basket. And with the right offer maybe the Nuggets would include Steve Hunter in the deal. We could killed two birds (big man & shooter) with one stone.

By new jersey faithful

January 16, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

CAN WE WIN ON BACK TO BACK NIGHTS FOR A CHANGE?!?!?!?!?!?!

By Astro Joe

January 16, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

I. MUS, the debate is between Horford and Conley, because Conley was gone at #4, so why discuss choosing Law at #11 if the other cat was already eating Memphis BBQ by the time Atlanta’s #11 pick came around? There is truly no reason to debate which PG we should have drafted, unless you’re willing to say that Conley is better than Horford. Is that waht you’re saying? After 1 decent game by Conley?

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

January 16, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

It’s erroneous to compare them because they weren’t in competition for draft slots. Were Conley available at 11, we would have grabbed him- hands down. He was rated the better player and to nobody’s surprise, he’s playing like it thus far. CP and Deron will be linked because they went consecutively and because Billy Knight…. you know the story. 8 draft spots speaks to a level of talent more than position. Using you’re logic, did Portland really consider Oden v Noah? Of course not. Law will

By I.MUS WRITE

January 16, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Im not debating anything- “Horford at #3 hands down” Does Horford play point guard? No he doesnt-so why would I compare him to Conley. If im not mistaken Law and Conley play the same position and came out in the same draft-people are going to compare them for that reason alone. Read my post dude- All the hype about Law being the most ready to play,better jumper etc.. he isnt showing me that. 1 game doesnt mean squat- they both have a long way to go. Conley put up 20 and 7 last night. When has Acie come close to that???? Im waiting…..- He has’nt-but he was the better all around PG right.

Ive’ seen all but 3 games this year and I’ve seen Acie hit 3 jumpers that were’nt during garbage time. That aient what what we drafted the guy for.

No changing the draft we have what we have- should have been (Horford -3 Stuckey-11)

When Acie starts playing better,and takes control of the team_ I will shut my mouth…. He looks timid and scared -now tell me im wrong

By Ryder

January 16, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

How do we know that Conley will be a better overall PG than Law? Memphis surely won’t be winning any games that’ll mean anything soon. He’ll put up stats on a 30 win squad for years. Besides, he still hasn’t managed a jump shot. Guess he’s not as good when he doesn’t have his buddy Oden to throw it to. Acie will be around better talent and can develop watching AJ man the point. He may not put up the numbers of Deron or CP3, but his contributions will end the PG debate once and for all.

Speaking of PG debates, here’s one that is sure to start some discussion. There was a blogger who did the ESPN Trade Machine, and came up with a comparable deal that would send Shelden, JChill, and Tyronn Lue to Philadelphia for Andre Miller. Miller only has two years left on his deal.

A Miller-JJ backcourt would be worth it if only to watch the offense blossom. With Solomon getting more PT it might be worth exploring. Mario West could play the energy guy off the bench.