Hawks

By Realist

January 3, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

The Hawks seem to be competing as well as most other teams at this point. Do they bring it every night? No. But neither does any other team.
That’s what makes the NBA so boring compared to other sports (and b’ball is my favorite sport). Only a handful of guys in the NBA have the ability to give it their all every game.
It’s just the nature of an 82-game season.

By tyger

January 3, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Hawks Need to Make a Move

I was reluctant to forgo the future for the present but after the last two exhibitions I’m convinced this team is simply undermanned.

To compete against the big boys change is needed. If another great draft pick, like Horford, was in the immediate future I would stay the course, but its not.

Anthony “Band-Aid” Johnson has blown his wad. Acie is not ready and Ty Lue is the slowest lil’ guy in the league.

ZaZa is an asset thats probably better parlayed now, rather than later. Shelden is a nice role player, but lacks the height and skill set we need in the middle. Childress looks to be the odd man out in the offseason, so why wait?

We dont need a blockbuster but a couple of small deals to round this roster into shape is needed.

Juan Dixon can shoot and handle the rock. Jamaal McGloire has the size and toughness and doesnt mind being a goon.

Do something before its too late for Gods sake!!!

By JJ

January 3, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

there were a ton of chances to win that game against the Cavs. But this team still nedds to mature. They need to play like it’s their lives on the line.

By new jersey faithful

January 3, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Sekou, can you tell me if the Hawks will be on national TV before the playoffs?? Are they scheduled to be?

By ray

January 3, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Ken, if Cleveland’s bigs aren’t big or strong, just tall (YOUR words) and they are beating the crap out of us on the boards (and they DID), what does that tell you about us? You can call it whining if you want, but the fact is, Horford needs help. Really think about what you said: “they’re not big or strong, just tall.” What does that say about our team? Nobody that I can see is saying that we need to give up our entire core for some magical big man. I for one am saying that other than Horford (and MAYBE Wright…maybe), the bigs that we have been playing have NOT been producing well enough.

Cleveland’s offensive and defensive rebounding alone doomed us. So…was it lack of effort on our part (remember, the opposition is only tall) or was it a lack of talent or productive capability. As I’ve been stating, I’m enjoying the winning record as much as anyone else. Mark my words, as things tighten down, we will get away with less.

You want to keep the team just like it is? No problem. Better hope that guys are giving the effort 110%, as Sekou said, every night like it’s our last. If the guys we have now don’t or can’t get it done, should we just sit around and say “oh well, it’ll be better next year” ?? Seriously, we can talk all we want about the team being where it is now. I hope the record looks like this later. But if we’re not careful, it won’t look like this at all. This isn’t a panic, and it’s not disgust at a loss. I figure we weathered Lebron’s second half rather well. Cleveland as a whole didn’t shoot all that great or play awesomely. If that performance was somewhat mediocre, what happens when they’re ON?

If you have a new engine that needs a little tuning, you tune it. You don’t leave it until it’s just about to throw a rod. If you change the plugs and wires now, you don’t have to worry about the expense and difficulty of an engine overhaul. That’s all some of us are saying.

By Jonj

January 3, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

After watching the game last night… getting passed the miss layups ( by the way is Josh Smith injured because its been awhile since i have seen him just rise up and dunk? most of the time he is just trying to put the ball high enough to get into the hoop.),

the bad defense even though Lebron was on some other stuff.

the most glaring need for the hawks is some sound offensive set ups and crunch time isolation for Joe Johnson. I use to think Joe Johnson didn’t have the mentality and killer instinct, but he can’t get the space and vision he deserves if the ball is supposed to be in his hands if he is being ran off of screen curls. late in the shot clock

Marvin Williams has a killer instinct and every game i see more and more of it

already talked about Smith

Josh Childress is to go nowhere he is way to valuable and way to consistent

I would hate to give away Shelden cause he has the inside nastiness

( for instance in Cleveland last night someone was setting an illegal screen, [which they don’t ever call] he promptly put all of his force into to pushing him out of the way after the play and I didnt see that on Shelden anymore that night.) unfortunately he is not as athletic as Al Horford.

I know Salim was hurt earlier in the year, but is that still the case i mean outside of Marvin and Tlue he is the only person who could create a ridiculous amount of space for Joe Johnson and of the little time i have seen him playing his decision making and defense has gotten a lot better.

and who is Blog Z???

By Jonj

January 3, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

they don’t have any nationally televised games i believe,

How does that system work because the Bobcats definitely had a nationally televised game

By ray

January 3, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

You know, you really have to wonder just how many times we have to watch other teams big guys have season highs against us before it’s understood that we either have a lack of size, effort, or flat out ability. People say Shelden’s too small at 6’8” and 250. Funny, Danny Fortson is an inch shorter and NEVER had that problem. What does that tell you?

By ruckus

January 3, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

DON’T CARE HOW WE WIN, JUST WIN.

By MannyT

January 3, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

You know who has the marks and lives in the moment—Mario.

Just watch him play. When he gets his 29 seconds or 14 minutes, he runs around like today is the peak of the experience…then he does it again the next day.

One day when things are not quite going right on the court, I hope Woody gives the keys to Mario and says run with it until the tank is empty. Even if that means he’s playing the point or guarding Lebron.

All the talk of Kobe over the summer—you think it was because he felt the sand running out of the hour glass? He’s happier now because he can see a chance at another title with the current squad. Not that it is definite, just a lot more likely than it looked in the summer.

Look at the way Bruce Bowen scratches and claws at age 37. He, Kurt Rambis, Mark Iavaroni, Dennis Rodman (before he went mas loco) to name a few are guys who got marks with limited talent.

Guys like Magic & MJ had big talent and still lived in the moment.

That’s why I like it when I see fire in guys like JSmith and Salim. I think it’s how they get their marks.

By doc

January 3, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

amazing if they dont as many of them lost a teammate suddenly a little more than 2 years back.

if that doesnt get you to soak it up. sadly, no there isnt a sense of urgency about this team consistently.

would like to see chills as more of a lock down defender which this team is in sore need of. where is the bowen type of guy for this team? if it is west them let the dog out on a regular basis especially when the other team is shooting better than 50% for the night.

By kevin

January 3, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

It would be really nice to see a troy murphy or jeff foster in the line up. You think Indy would trade the one of them for Zaza. Picking up troy murphy and then trying to trade for raef lafrentz would really be the two bigs that would fit with this team, and I would not think either would command alot in return.

By Astro Joe

January 3, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

MannyT, nice post.

Sekou, what’s up with the crazy question? Travel fatigue must be leaving an ugly mark.

Zaza seems to be within a few games of playing himself out of the rotation. He was putrid last night. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear of some mysterious injury in the next 7 days… when what they need to do is ship his clumsy, half-hearted play out of here for a bag of Utz potato chips and a Fanta grape soda.

By JohnGTFan

January 3, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

I think one thing we all need to remember is how tough it is to win on the road in the NBA. I agree with a lot of comments on here. Everyone has bad nights…heck, I’ve seen Lebron, Kobe, VC, etc miss open jumpers, layups, dunks. I think these kids (i’m 34, I call them kids) are hungry, I really do. I don’t think we’re going to see them roll over. Do they have it every single night..no, I don’t think so. They’re human. Not everyone will be in sync every game…just doesn’t happen.

I just hope a 2 or 3 game losing streak doesn’t bring out the negativity, because this team is playing better than most people thought.

By cp

January 3, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Send Solomon Jones to the NBDL if he wont be given a chance to play. I would rather see him on the court than Za Za and Sheldon. I might be alone in this but I really don’t see what Za Za, Sheldon, and T Lue bring to the table. Lue pounds the ball too much, Sheldon is so unathletic and has the worse hands I think I have ever seen and Za Za looks lost and clumbsy out there most days. I know we dont need to make a move just to make one but package these 3 guys for something , anything . The more I see Roy the more I wonder what the hell was BK thinking . I know we have to move on from past picks and I know Roy is not a pg but damn you just dont pass over talent like that for Sheldon. I dont care what Sheldon numbers were in college because from watching the games it was clearly plain to see the dude was average and got the benefit of a lot of calls due to him being at Duke. Anyway play SOLO or send him to the NBDL and package the 3 amigos somewhere and get something nice in return.

By flappin Hawk

January 3, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

They’re just a young team learning how to win on the road. It’s the hardest step for any team. They’re getting closer. It took a ridiculous game by Lebron and Gooden’s luck shot bonanza in the 1st half to beat the Hawks. They will get better and better this year. Next year is the year…no more Zaza slowing down the tempo and turning it over. FA’s will want to come to ATL. Get the ownership situation solved and we make a nice run next year.

By Dr. Tobias Funke

January 3, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Shelden Williams plays like he just at a 5-course meal of concrete. Are his feet glued to the floor, or is he really just that unathletic?

By I.MUS WRITE

January 3, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Itz amazing how some people feel our roster is playoff ready. Cleveland has a big frontline-but so do 22 other teams in this league. Lets not act like last night was the first time this season that we got abused in the paint….. just go back to the Milwaukee game.

As much as i like Chilldress -i would deal him with filler for the right peice( B.Miller/PG/or scorer). Chillz is a scrapper/hustle guy…. He does’nt have consistent scoring ability and he is due an extension in the summer. I would like to have more of a MO Pete type coming off the bench…. just score the ball.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 3, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

CP you are right on the money -agree with you totally

By anon

January 3, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

One of the things that makes Sekou’s board so refreshing is you don’t generally see the sort of crap some idiot calling himself “coachx” placed on Hawksquawk.

“Yi is 5th in All Star Voting for Eastern Conference Fowards. We all knew this would happen but still……

Does that make any one else sick or just me ?

Meanwhile, Josh Smith is 9th in voting for Eastern Conference Fowards.

Talk about voting based on race…..this is out of hand. Whites would be ridiculed to no end by the NAACP if they ever did this. Seems every one else gets a free pass.”

Why does the objection have to be based on ethnicity? Why can’t he just question whether Yi’s talent makes him worthy and leave it at that?

Sekou, your board’s a breath of fresh air compared to some others. Thanks.

By Wink from Lithonia

January 3, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Sekou said, every night like it’s our last. Let me offer you a visual of this statement from Alicia Keys.

This is a topic Alicia Keys has song about “kiss me like you are never going to see me again” “hold me like you’re never going to hold me again”…Mario West, specifically,Horford and Josh Childress to a lesser degree, are the only ones who get this!!! You got to make your mark with the time given.

We need our franchise player (JJ), our budding star (Josh Smith)and supporting cast to understand that this game is a priviledge that few ballers get to play on the Big Stage. On some nights Josh acts like he is entitled and does not bring his A game and displays his F game…not a pretty site.

What we need are defined roles ie Role Players, Practice Squard guys… by definition…guys who hustle every night like it’s their last. Guys who provide energy, toughness, fouls, controlled determination for the collective good of team.

Every guy doing his job, that aids the others to do their job, no one more important than the lesser guy. To me Josh Childress, Mario West, & Al Horford have been instrumental in any success we have had to this point.

For example, Boston was terrible last year, now they have made their jump to the top with 3 marque guys, but without the Role Players they would be Miami, Houston…feel me!

By SQUAWKER

January 3, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

that’s all very deep, sekou.

how about some actual news?

By THE Hawks Fan

January 3, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

I think the Hawks are trying REAL hard to pull a deal to get a big. I just hope its not Gasol. He admits himself that he is hurt and uninspired. My thing is what do we have that teams want??? Salim Lue Zsa Zsa Sheldon?? I really think u have to give all of them for an average Big. I tell you who I like and thats Cris K from the Clips. They have tanked for the year IMO. Dude was an ALL Star with Brand in the line up. Give em Salim Lue and Zsa Zsa. Thats 9 mill to about 8 mill. I would throw in Shelden for a kicker if the deal stalls but not J Chill. He is one of the hardest playing if not the hardest playing guys on this team. About the trade I know I know no chance in Hell. I can dream though. Where the hell do we get a Big??? DAMNNN!!! Still waiting on Hibbett aint gonna happen unless in a draft day trade. BUT lets please get back to our winning ways quick fast and in a hurry. I think AJ’s play had us really going in Dec. I know he cant play 40 mins a nite, but I would ride him for 30 35 mins if possible. Acie needs to work on PASSING the ball. WTF is the thinking that Dallas was good game for him. To me he was playing for the family, cant blame him though. Acie needs to CREATE and play D, thats it!! I know JJ needs rest but he has to play at least 36 mins a night. No way around it. Josh has come under control pretty much and is a Double Double machine. Marvin needs to pull the trigger a little faster a la 5 game streak. Al and Mario just give everything when they play. I mean just complete hustle, no plays off. Al needs to goto the PF position though which is why Lo Wright has to come onnnnn!!!! We could really lose our next 5 and Dec will be a distant memory. LETS GOOOO HAWKKS!!!!!

By jhan

January 3, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

Sheldon Williams is not the problem with our post rebounding. He finally is starting to use his bulk to his advantage. I think Al Horford has really lit a fire under Sheldon. He will never live up to his lofty draft position, but the guy is steadily improving.

ZaZa needs to concentrate on boxing out & rebounding. He needs to score on put-backs & open 10’-15’ jumpshots. If he won’t do this then put his butt on the bench. I can’t believe he doesn’t EVER play with his arms up. Isn’t that fundamental basketball for post players?

Had we drafted Roy then there is no Horford. We still would have had Law due to the Pacers pick. How bad would our interior play be without Horford?

By MannyT

January 3, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

While we want the players to play like it is the last time, we do not want BK to GM like it is the last time. Otherwise, you go for broke this season and you are broke or cap strapped i.e. Knicks anyone-even the Cavs are locked into cheap help for Lebron this season and next.

The tricky part of all this trade talk is the peak value for the restricted free agents is NOT during the season. For the unrestricted FA, you can make a deal before they walk. Smith and Childress cannot go anywhere at season’s end unless the Hawks opt not to match (assuming qualifying offers to both.) Even then, a sign and trade may fill some additional holes. Remember before Ben Wallace was Big Ben he was a sign and trade throw in.

All that to say, if there is a deal that moves Lue, Wright or AJ it works in the next 2 months—otherwise, it has to be a great deal to give up the leverage that comes with restricted free agency.

If you are Phoenix—do it now. If you are the Hawks, build the team to get in the playoffs and stay for several years. That way we may actually get some high value free agents in the future.

By RealSquawk

January 3, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

The Hawks want to go to the playoffs? Don’t you need a coach for that first?

By doc

January 3, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

jhan others have made that point so i will argue maybe we would have not changed draft slots with roy. how do we know? he didnt exactly make portland into contenders last year, in fact didnt he draw the ball for oden. maybe he would have gotten us two high draft picks just with his good karma. it is just as likely to have had that happen as to say that he would have brought us less. pure conjecture, shoot maybe he would have gotten us both the two and three who really knows.

i still have the same dream now as i had then of jj and roy on the same court like pearl and clyde, sure damage to the other guy. throw in a legit big in free agency and viola maybe horford would have been excess. we got what we got and it aint too bad. just maybe we would have roy, horfod, acie and jj without the free agent or sheldon. which would you prefer? i’d take the four horses. you can slum with the landlord. again all conjecture but wouldnt it be fun to have seen roy maybe going down the floor as a point which he is doing now a lot for portland?

By doc

January 3, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

fun night, portland and the bulls on tnt and to listen to the round mound.

By Ben

January 3, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

Stop posting these stupid and vague blogs, and post stuff we actually care about, like trade rumors and other stuff

By Clyde

January 3, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Clyde

January 3, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

Doc imagine Chris Paul, Roy, and JJ on the floor together.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By ray

January 3, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

Jhan, no offense…but getting Roy would have meant we had an even more sound core to build from. Drafting him would’ve given us a big and very dangerous backcourt as Doc said. Saying that drafting Roy means no Horford later is likely true, but it doesn’t mean that we would’ve been worse off later on. Besides, how do you explain Portland’s success in the draft before, during, and after the acquisition of Roy? Now they are flying high and hard. They really have ALL the pieces, and incredible back-ups. They can move in any number of directions as needed. We don’t have all those options. We probably would’ve with Roy. But again, this is the continuous thrashing of yet another equine carcass…

I recall saying early last year that the Blazers would be a major force to be reckoned with if they managed some semblance of health and kept most of what they had. Looks like that is coming to fruition earlier than expected. They’re not elite by any standards. But they damn sure are dangerous…

By MannyT

January 3, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Ben the tricky part of we is the who else you include.

I don’t think your we speaks for all of us. I am ok with this topic for a day. It’s a long season.

I used to travel a lot for work. It’s a very different thing than going to the same place every day.

Hoopwise, your team has to be scrappy if it is small. You can’t teach height, but it is almost as hard to teach desire. Desire leaves those marks the travelers talk about.

By doc

January 3, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

yeah clyde, three mvp candidates on one team. all can play big minutes, jj can be the three. chills, smith and a big or two, quite a combo. still like the guys we have and feel they are coming of age approaching a critical stretch of can they handle some modicum of success as they leaned to win. last night was winnable but only because somehow we got ten or so more fouls shots on the road, very unlikely to happen often in the nba where you get that may more foul shots than the home team.

aj, hear the criticism tonight on tnt of the short guards for the bulls something we echoed in the past? “little people” is how sir charles put it.

By doc

January 3, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

manny t, i guess he sounds like the guys sekou is wondering about , those not around long enough to gain perspective on life and how you own up to your own stuff. sounds a bit immature to me to just sound off, life will come. maybe because it hit home he felt obliged to scream a bit at the messenger instead of the mirror. life and its lessons, never know when or where they come.

no manners or respect to the blog z. gotta laugh at the newbie wondering about the blog z. man, best chuckle of the day.

By Daniel

January 3, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

A trade for Gasol makes sense. He was a BK pick in Memphis and would round out his ‘vision’ of a team. It could happen.

By Mike

January 3, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Guys come on, this is still the fourth youngest team in the NBA. The Hawks are the Trailblazers of the East. They didn’t draft all their guys they had to make some moves too. I wouldn’t try to make a move before the trade dead line. They could move Solomon to the development league and try some 10 day guys till then.

These guys never gave up last night. I’m looking for them to bounce back the next two games. We know it’s going to be a struggle when ever we play teams like Cleveland and Dallas. Hey they both have played for championship.

When I say make a move I’m calling out Woody and BK. Zaza and Shelden has showed that they will struggle with active Bigs. Either give Solomon a chance, or bring someone in his roster spot that can help out in the post. Forget about Salim, Woody ain’t going to give him his shot.

I wouldn’t give up on Shelden to soon. I think he is capable of having a breakout year his third year like the rest of the guys. Now Zaza that’s a different story. This just guy just shuns physical play. He plays so timid to be so big, I thought he had over come his lethargic play, man was I wrong on that guy.

These guys are trying to gain some respect. Nobody is going to give in to a team like the Hawks. Woody better stick with AJ and get Mario back in the dam game!!!!!!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By cp

January 4, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

Im sorry but im not seeing this talent in Sheldon that some people on here see. He cant finish at the rim. He has short arms thus leading to guys shootin right over him. He is slow, un athletic, has bricks for hands, and just isnt that talented in my opinion. The guy is a second round talent at best.

By Clyde

January 4, 2008 3:18 AM | Link to this

Sheldon Williams over Brandon Roy.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By tb

January 4, 2008 4:05 AM | Link to this

Hey SS. Are you holding yourself up to the same “give it all every second” expectations that you are imposing on these young Hawks.

Or, are you simply creating the same kind of unrealistic perfection expectations that seem to be putting everything out of perspective.

Also, are you a reporter or a fan. Of course, you can be both, but as a reporter, it seems you might keep the fan out of your work.

Not attacking, just trying to get back to reality.

By Edo River

January 4, 2008 4:14 AM | Link to this

Mr. Smith As is often the case I am divided into whether it is more important to respond the the particular (the Hawks’ situation) or to the generalities you point to. The Hawks situation is temporary, no matter what happens. The Celtics situation is also temporary, even though it will last longer than the Hawks moment of satisfaction.

The generality of living this moment to its fullest, is not so unusual for us to hear. For example I received a forwarded email from who claimed to be a surgeon at a Boston hospital on behalf of a dying of cancer little 10 year old girl who wrote a poem which says the same thing, “Live every moment as though it may be your last”, for you never know who you may be sharing that moment with, whose last is really to be.

However As I have heard this repeated so many many times over the years, I have thought about what the words assume or imply or leave without comment.

True quality counts more than quantity.

But who is worthy to judge the quality? That is the question I want to ask the people who endlessly spin various points of view of this “Live every moment as though it may be your last”.

As to the particular situation. It is difficult to say “What if…” because I truly believe the Hawks as individuals are trying the best they can. Are they as efficient as they COULD BE. Of course not. No one Is. Even Kevin Garnett could have done something better than he did, or will do if he has another chance.

SPORTS is really trivial compared to…..(you fill in the blanks) so why not enjoy it, for whatever happens? There will always be another game, another season, another plane trip (despite what that random sage said). Do you want to remember every second of every game, or every trip you ever made? Would that be a good use of your time? So why worry? Just relax,

that is what this children’s game is supposed to do, just for tuning off the mind from the really important stuff. As ever, regards from Japan.

By doc

January 4, 2008 7:02 AM | Link to this

enjoyed watching the blazers last night in their moment of enjoyment as they out-relaxed the bulls in a test of will to win their 5th of 6 road games. will they keep it up? no. however, they are really getting the most out of this moment as they have their chance. seems that the point is, the time on the stage might be shorter than you think.

maybe it is about the CHOICE in how to live it or edo is it in the words of a jamacan philosopher .. why worry, be happy?

By ray

January 4, 2008 7:21 AM | Link to this

This is becoming a bit too philosophical.

Doc, I watched that game too. It was entertaining. Little people or not, you can’t say much about a6’2/6’3 guard who gets you 30+ points off the bench several nights in a row. Our “little” people don’t do that.

By ray

January 4, 2008 7:26 AM | Link to this

Edo River, very interesting question you asked: “who is worthy to judge the quality?”

I assume you’re being rhetorical, so I’ll counter with a few questions of my own: “What’s your answer to that question?” and, “Who isn’t worthy to judge?” and, “How do you determine who is and who isn’t?” or, “Can such a thing be determined, or is it not a thing capable of objective opinion (and what is objective opinion in this case)?”

Like I said, a bit too philosophical…heh heh

By ruckus

January 4, 2008 7:28 AM | Link to this

Uh HUH

By doc

January 4, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this

ray, those same little people dont defend too well or havent you gotten that notion by watching our smurfs try to defend in the nba, heinrich chased roy all night long and what a beautiful spin over to the basket on one of the chases. jack also seemed to penetrate as well when he wanted to.

as far as the hawks, dont understand why bk isnt more enamored with 6’7ish guards and continues to go only for the shorter versions unlike his propensity for the 6’7 “big” guys. maybe it was to help woody with bench management. jj worked well at that size.

ray, as an aside, it boils down to acceptance of others and the moment, judgement doesnt play any role. it is the issue of the observer not the observed, nothing is objective, all is distorted and biased. ultimately all is changed by the observer just in the observation.

not philosophy but physics of the quantum nature.

peace, heh heh.

By doc

January 4, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this

gordan didnt get that last shot off either did he over a guy 4 to 6 inches taller on him in crunch time. a problem and why salim isnt on the court more no matter how hard he tries, got two or three matched up along side of him usually, just doesnt work.

as far as the reason we lost and didnt “finish”, yes not getting the guys on the court to make match-ups difficult, right woody?

By randy

January 4, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

Marvin needs to stick to his jumper. I know when he goes to the hoop, he usually gets a couple free throws out of it, but man it looks like a trainwreck. He is so uncoordinated and gawky, he ends flaling around on the floor and the ball winds up in the 5th row of the stands. On the other hand, his jumper is pretty when it goes.

Anyways, hope they do better tonight and stay over .500! GO HAWKS!

By ejh

January 4, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

I believe the Hawks are still on the right track, there defense let them down the past two games but you are not going to win every game on an 82 game schedule but the objective is to play .700 ball at home and .500 ball on the road, that would give the Hawks about 28 wins out of 41 at home and about 22 out of 41 on the road this makes you one of the top teams in the league with 50 wins. I do not know if the Hawks have reached that plateau yet, but that is where you want your team every year, to be consistent and a contender for a championship. But back to the last two games; the Dallas game the mavs got off to a 12-0 start it was going to be difficult for the Hawks to win that game especially after Dallas had lost 2 in a row at home. The Mavs shot the ball real well. The Cavs game however saw the Hawks hold Lebron James to 4 first half points while double teaming and trapping him all over the floor. The second half the went to a zone expecting Lebron to take jumpers and wanting to see if he could hit them consitently, and he did. Plus the zone allowed for James to have room to drive to the basket and get some isolation set ups, which allowed him to get into a rhythm. This is what beat the Hawks. In the game of basketball and especially at this level you have to realize what’s the position of the game at all times. You knew that doubling and trapping Lebron was a success, Daniel Gibson had 5 fouls with 6 plus minutes left in the game and was not on the floor so his outside shot was not a threat, even more reason to keep doubling Lebron. Also Drew Gooden who had 12 points in the first half only had 1 point in the second half, continue to make that guy beat you, because after not taking any shots he probably would have been a cold shooter. And Joe Johnson has to be a little selfish towards the end of games and have the ball in his hands to be the playmaker like all all-stars at the end of the game.

By tb

January 4, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

Hey ejh,

Thanks for the breakdown. You just gave me more game info in a couple of paragraphs than SS and the AJC has all season.

I’m sure if you show up at their door (ajc) with this post in hand, you can be the new BLOG Z.

Oh wait, we’re talking about the ajc. One only need look at the other days Falcons headline to see the value of the ajc (and their reporters); Falcons get third pick in the draft.

Hey SS when you talk about being all you can be, first a mirror, then have a talk with your FBall colleagues that disgraced the idea of journalism with that little beauty.

By Mike

January 4, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

CP I’m not saying Sheldon is loaded with talent, I’m just saying it’s too early to give up on him. I would be foolish to try to compare Sheldon to Roy. We have beaten this dog to death. I’m looking at Sheldon as a second year guy. I have seen improvement in his play from last year. Whose to say he want continue to improve.

I think Sekou comments are very relevant to this team, living like it you last, and ceasing the moment is all about reflection, not judgment. These Hawks have to play every game likes it’s their last. When they play like that they can play with anyone. They have already proven that this season. I think what some of us are saying is that the Hawks need to cease this opportunity while other teams in the East are struggling. Play every game like it last while you are still in the hunt for a playoff spot, don’t let this hard earned opportunity slip away. That goes for the players, the coaches, the GM, and the Owners.

That’s why they call him THE GREAT BLOG ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Atl Flavor

January 4, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Hey TB want some game info, WATCH the the friggin game. Then come here to comment. If you are a real fan. LOL. The HAWKS lost the last 2 because of the players on the floor. Not becuase of any man to man zone blitz schemes. Go back to the 8 guys that played the last 3 weeks and all will be well.

By SSI Fan

January 4, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

I admit that I am a traditionalist when it comes to basketball. I do not ascribe to Billy Knight’s philosophy which seems to be to acquire nothing but versatile players. I believe that most times the team with the stronger inside game wins. I was a math major and realize that numbers can be used to prove almost anything, but the team with the most rebounds won 10 of the 15 games played Wednesday and Thursday.

In my opinion the Hawks need an upgrade on the inside. A scout told SS that Smith and Horford were good “Tweeners”. Horford is quoted as saying he is undersized to play center. Horford and Smith are both good players. I think Horford has the chance to be a great power forward, if matched with a 7 foot center. However, I think that when Horford and Smith are in the game at the same time as the center and power forward, the Hawks will have a hard time with the teams that have more size inside. It’s hard to give up at least 2 iniches at center and at least 2 inches at power forward and compete in the NBA with the good teams.

By tb

January 4, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

I wish I could watch the game Flavor; Geo problem. I do everything else I can to keep up though.

Congratulatins Mike: you get to move up one seat in the Sekou cheering section/bandwagon.

I come here to get Hawks news, not Sekou’s weak views.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 4, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

The only true big man we have is Horford. Sheldon is what he is -a banger only-if he is’nt going to be apart of a trade I think he can be an okay back up -maybe 8pts/6rebs.

ZAZA is another story- if he wont even try top play defense, then bury him on the bench or trade him now!!! He spends alot of time shopping and being coture… MEMO: PUT THE SAME EFFORT INTO YOUR GAME AND YOU WONT BE THE SUBJECT OF TRADE RUMORS EVERY WEEK.

Damon S. is demanding a trade….. Can we atleast consider picking him up. I say we waive TLue and bring in Damon to back up AJ. Acie could become a full time student in the 3rd pg role. Damon gives us outside shooting and he is a veteran who knows how to run a ball club.

What would we have to give up- probably not much since they demoted the guy in favor of a youth movement

Utah got Korver for Giricek_HMMMMM couldnt we have offered Salim /BIG for his services- how many opprotunities are we going to pass up— Rediculous— Salim does’nt even play- he’s out of woody’s dog house but he is still sleeping on the balcony-and mean while its Korver for 3…….. Thats just great I like our core guys but we have areas that need upgrading

By Astro Joe

January 4, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Ray, I didn’t see the game last night, but Gordon is a terrific regular season performer (kind of like Shawn Marion). But when the playoffs come around, that team deseparately needs a bigger wing to help defend the other team’s elite perimeter player. Missing out on Roy was worse for the Bulls than it was for us. We did NOT have the need for another 6’6” multi-dimensional player, Chicago did. And Tyrus was clearly 2-3 years away from being a guy who could contribute in meaningful games. Our primary need in that off-season was fixing our interior defense. As I have said repeatedly, BK had the right idea but the execution was bad. Deciding to buy your steak from Publix because their beef is typically better than Kroger would be the right idea. If you end up purchasing a bad piece of meat, then that would be poor execution of the right idea. Lastly, if we had a healthy Speedy, I personally think the Roy discussion would disappear.

Moving on, if Memphis would take Lue for Damon Stoudemire, I’d do it yesterday (I’d even throw in a 2nd rounder). Damon is far from a great PG, but he is a definite upgrade from AJ, Lue or Acie (right now). And having him here next year wouldn’t be a bad thing since we will need a veteran PG anyway (unless AJ or Lue are re-signed).

By Mike

January 4, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the congrads tb, now I feel really special. You got to excuse most of guys, we’re Hawks junkies. You got guys from around the globe coming hear to talk about the young Hawks. What information due you need, I’m sure someone can help you out.

I gotta tell ya tb, before blog Z came no sports journalist at the AJC gave a rats a* about the Hawks. We all had to suffer with world renowned journalists Mark Bradley, Jeff Shultz, and Dr. Doom himself Terence Moore. Hey if you got a beef with blog Z you could always check with these revered journalists. I bet they are full of information and full of themselves. They are so self-absorbed, if it’s not any information, hey they will make some up. So take your pick. You’re always welcome to the liars den.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By I.MUS WRITE

January 4, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

OMG…. What is this -you guys are really getting after Sekou today. 8 good blogs out of 10 is’nt bad. Think about this blog if Terrence Moore was doing the reporting. Keep doing what you do Sekou…

HAWKS !!!!!!

By tb

January 4, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Lived about 30 years in ATL. Not now though.

Shelden is Zaza’s replacement and Soloman is the deep back up until we can do better; Zaza is so far out of sync with this tezm that he has to go.

I love this team and think we’re going places, but it’s still a year or two away.

We should not be nor get in a win now mentality this year unless some team wants to bad trade it to us.

If we keep a realistic curve in view, we have a very different perspective of what we can and should do.

I say keep (in this order); JJ, Smoove, Horford, Marvin, Chil, Acie, Shelden, Mario.

Noone is untreatable in the above real good deal kind of trade though.

That leaves as very tradeable (in order of trade value?); Zaza, AJ, Lue, Lo, Salim, Soloman, Speedy.

I also wouldn’t be too shy about trading away future first roud picks to trade. This is the time for the Hawks to trade away future firsts because as they improve in the next couple of seasons their picks will fall deep into the draft :=)

Maaaaaaybe BK already knew this in the JJ deal because this years pick looks like it won’t be lotto. You go BK.

What you say about that Andro?

By Ryder

January 4, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Ok, all of this talk about trades and stuff is ridiculous. BK’s very stubborn when it comes to making deals (especially when ownership isn’t settled) and unless some major catastrophe happens between now and Feb there’s no way a trade is going to happen, so give it a rest.

I’d like to see some more analysis on facing the Pacers tonight. This team is one of those that the Hawks are confident they can beat. I like how this team has finally come together and believe they can win every night. Just look at how well they performed attempting to come back against Dallas (until JJ ran out of gas) and how they almost came back on Cleveland. Had Shelden learned how to shoot free throws and Lebron didn’t go MJ from ‘93 on us then the outcome is probably different.

That said, I love how this team is playing hard and relying on team defense to keep them in games. I see what you’re saying Sekou however I’d like to see my blogging brothers give more in depth about the roster we have now and how they stack up against their next opponent instead of playing fantasy GM.

Besides, as Bill Simmons says it’s the NBA, the “No Balls Association” no one’s going to make a major deal unless they are truly desperate.

I believe if Horford (combined with Sheldon) can hold their own against O’Neal then I like Atlanta in tonight’s game due to their now strong veteran backcourt of AJ & JJ.

By Ramon

January 4, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

SSI FAN, I’m young, but didn’t the Lakers win a championship with the C and PF being 2 inches shorter than the opponent? If you have the right height coming off of the bench, then the starters don’t matter. I guess Golden State really struggled with the two 7 footers Dallas had in the playoffs. If you have those right parts on the bench (although the Hawks don’t have a true athletic 7 footer- but how many teams do, not even the Nets). It is all in how you play your game and your lineup. Because a traditional front court can not run with this line up. Eddie Curry is a 7 footer, but who would you want to depend on for rebounds, him or Horford?

I think a trade for Damon would be nice depending on his salary. I still think a trade for Pryzbilla would be good, he comes off the book at the end of the season. Or how about Ratliff, what is he doing now? And to be honest if they could, I would trade for Mutombo in a second. Just to get this season out of him (10-20 minutes a game) and more tutoring for Horford and Smoove would be great.

If you move Marvin to the bench and give more touches to Horford, you could really have some things going. I think Marvin could have the same impact Gordon has coming off the bench. And in the minutes he plays (although they will be the same amount) he will not be matched up on defense with the Lebrons, Jeffersons, Butlers, or Princes. If you have Marvin, Salim, and Acie coming off the bench, you have much firepower to come in to make runs when teams are ‘resting’ and gearing towards other spots.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 4, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Ryder - What are you saying guy. I think we have a good young team-but when there are huge needs and players being let go/demanding trades who could fill in nicely here-why not talk trade. Hell we ‘ve been talking trade since August

Most fans want to see the team be competitive at a minimum- then there are others who feel like our current roster can battle the San Antonio’s and Bostons of the world in a 7 game series……..NO WAY If at all possible get Horford sum help or a long range shooter.

Do we need another shooter- hell yeah Do we need another big man- hell yeah

By cp

January 4, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Mike I respect ya opinion but we will have to disagree about Sheldon” cement feet, brick hands” Williams. I would love to see Woody just let Acie play his game. Acie is going through the same thing other rookies have gone through with Woody in the past. Tentative to play their game because they are looking over their shoulder wondering if Woody is going to yank them out the game. Once again send SOLO to the NBDL. Let the kid get some burn. Keep Lue on the bench. The only reason to play him is to show other teams he can still knock down a jumper thus improving his trading value. We really need this game tonight . A 3 game losing streak could turn very ugly very fast.

By ray

January 4, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, that makes sense to me. One thing though: you’re right that if Speedy was healthy, we wouldn’t hear about Roy as much. But you can also say that in reverse. Drafting Roy means no need to spend so much on Speedy, who has had a history of injury. In which case, we could have signed a veteran pg for cheaper, or even traded for one. As for having that bigger wing to guard the opposition’s elite players…I thought that was what Thabo Sefalosha was for? Or Luol Deng. As always, it’s about matchups. Much like BK’s mis-execution, a coach can misfire on his game-time decisions. You have to know when to have the scorer in, and when to have the defender in. You can’t live without a scorer of that magnitude. But if it’s a continous problem, you have to tinker with your roster. That’s where we usually have a problem.

Doc, the idea was to be completely rhetorical. I mentioned the word “judgement” because Edo River did, not because that’s what I figured this was about. I wasn’t seeking any answers, and based on yours…I’m not even sure we are on the same page. But it’s fun anyway, right? LOL!

By the way Doc, Gordon hits that shot if you set a screen for him. Sometimes when you don’t. Look how big our Marvin Williams is: 6’9”. Does he hit hotly contested shot? Keep in mind that his defender is rarely bigger than he is…sometimes not as large. It’s called defense, and Gordon has hit shots over bigger players many times.

By ruckus

January 4, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

CRAZINESS MAN

By doc

January 4, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

just playing along ray.

By MannyT

January 4, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

On the live in the moment/maximum effort thing …generally I hear that pro athletes love their jobs more than most. Usually, those who love their jobs do them with a vigor and zeal that shows. I think the point of the blog topic was that many times it looks like the love of the game is not there.

I get that most everyone loves the pro athlete paycheck. However, the edge that puts a team over the top often comes from that gym rat joy that says I’m willing to dig a little deeper, even if the W or L from the game does not change the paycheck.

I don’t expect the athlete to bring the same energy to cooking that the Food Network people do. I do want them to bring Emeril’s BAM energy to the games.

Edo I think most folks enjoy sports, but they do not relax in that enjoyment. You are encouraged not to relax, but to cheer, yell, boo & wave. Even if everyone gets to make their own call on the quality of the moment, you are also regularly judged on your public moments…be it by your coach, GM, family, friends, boss, peers, or strangers who see your actions. Unless you choose to be less self conscious than average, judgment will have an impact on how you do things…unless you got some Mama Cass in ya

By Astro Joe

January 4, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Ray, if memory serves, Portland played Roy at PG during the summer league of his rookie season and he struggled (as could be expected). I’m not sure that we would have wanted to ask a guy to play out of position yet again. I’m reasonably certain that if Roy were playing 35 minutes at PG, he wouldn’t be the same player he is now, playing 35 minutes at SG. I’d suggest that he would be as sub-optimized at PG as Horford is at C.

By doc

January 4, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

ray, i would have responded to aj the same way. get roy and you have r of y and you still have 6 to 8 mil a year to spend on a big instead of 5 mil for speedy and 3 mil for low wright. go figure.

just playing along with the flow earlier ray. heh heh

really clutch d on gordon at the end, snuffed him out.

By Mike

January 4, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Yeah CP I never said that Sheldon would turn out to be some kind of offensive juggernaut, but I have seen so many young guys written off for dead too early in their careers. Guys like Sheldon need playing time to find their rhythm. When Sheldon plays aggressive he’s a totally different guy.

Definitely agree with you on TLue. Acie and Salim can give you everything you’re getting from TLue. It’s funny Tlue started his career out like Mario. He was use as a defensive intensity guy for the Lakers. His claim to fame was matching up with AI during the series championship with the 76ers. AI was killing the Lakers, the Lakers needed a short guard to match up with AI. Nobody could stop AI but he slowed him down. TLue use to play some serious D, so I got much respect for his game. You can see injuries have taken a toll on his career. Time for Woody try some of the other guys.

I still think Acie is the key, cuz the kid plays defense. He’s young and raw, but he can do so many things to help you win, you gotta get this kid more playing time.

I just got burned by Zaza, so I better tread slowly with Sheldon.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By SalimFan

January 4, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

You guys are missing the big picture and not giving our guys enough credit. Billy knows talent..When they drafted an unproven player in marvin williams I seiosl wanted to knock billy upside the head. but he guy knows what he’s doing. Let’s face it Salim stoudimire at the 30th pick was a STEAl. Josh smith…I never saw it coming. Acie law…should have been a top five pick. Shelden williams..He’s our grbage man. he’s the cleanup guy. he just does not get enough time to fully impose his will and glass cleaning ability on othe bigs. Childress…we all knew he would be good.

Coach woodsen has instilled unselfishness in this team and I love it. Billy knight has en exellent eye for character as well as talent.

As much as we’ve all bashed management for poor seasons and keeping a great head coch who inhereted a rookie team. they’ve slowly but surely righted the ship. Building a team from the ground up takes time. espically if you wnt prolonged succes.

If these young players continue on their current course of maturation and talent growth we might be the next detroit pistons and good foor many years to come…

I would not fire woody. I belive that all we need is a good offensive minded assistant coach.

By Mike

January 4, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Doc Roy still would not have been the best choice for the Hawks to select that year. We could have traded down out of the 5th spot and picked up a draft pick and taken the kid Williams out of UCON, the heir apparent to JKidd in Jersey. That way we get a good young PG, a Big or another draft pick, and no Speedy. That was the move to make. I think Williams was the last player taken in the first round that year. He was projected to go in the top 10 or 15.

So Astro Joe has a good point. If you get a serviceable PG that year then Sheldon selection is a lot more tolerable.

I’m just stating there was a good PG in the draft that year. Our need was PG or Big, so taken Roy wasn’t a slam dunk.

By Ryder

January 4, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

I.MUS I was on the trading bandwagon for a long time, but then I realized that this is a team that should only make a trade if there’s a bonafide, no-doubt-about-it big man that would allow Al to play at his natural 4 without giving up someone valuable off the bench.

The way the Hawks play now it seems to me that trading anyone would hurt the depth that Atlanta has established. They are beginning to adapt to Woodson’s preferred half court game that even though a big man could clog up the lane at times this team would have to give up someone who can score, and unfortunately it would be Childress, who fits in well off the bench. Honestly, what GM in his right mind would want someone like Zaza or Shelden, whose contributions are inconsistent. Ok, perhaps Lue has some value to a team that needs a veteran PG (oh yeah, like this one) for a playoff stretch but is it worth giving up a valuable commodity that the Hawks could use in the future?

I say no. Unless a major injury happens to one of the Hawks’ core players, I say stick to what got them to this point.

By doc

January 4, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

well yeah mike, i rationalized it at the time just that way, it still sucks and appeared very stupid at the time and it still does. again the gm who blew it lives in chicago. barkley said it well, the guy to get fired wasnt skiles.

By doc

January 4, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

well yeah mike, i rationalized it at the time just that way, it still sucks and appeared very stupid at the time and it still does. again the gm who blew it lives in chicago. barkley said it well, the guy to get fired wasnt skiles.

By mykhalc

January 4, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

my biggest concern, and cp, alluded to it, is ACIE now lookin’ over his shoulder when he’s in there. cannot be productive like that.

and maybe the even bigger concern is LUE and what he does to the chemistry of this team. i don’t think that WOODSON calls out the team for playin’ selfishly in CLE and LUE was on the floor a lot of the time is anythin’ close to a coincident. as long as WOODSON continues to give him PT then we can only expect the HAWKS to revert back to ways of old.

combine LUE bein’ back and WOODSON havin’ too many choices on the bench and we have a recipe for disaster!!!! i would luv to be wrong but i think not!!!! as much as some here don’t like it, WOODSON CANNOT handle a rotation of more than 8 players!!!! anymore is a brain-freeze waitin’ to happen…PERIOD!!!!

By cp

January 4, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

Thank you mykhalc , I think a few of us have been saying this for a while. I like T Lue but he kills any ball rotation with his steady pounding and pounding of the ball. And you are correct about Woodson having too many choices. I said it on another blog, the more players Woodson has to work with the worse he coaches. His substitions become head scratching and guys who deserve some burn get no pt what so ever. Yea I understand where you are coming from Mike but I just dont see Sheldon turning into nothing more than a solid bench player. As far as Roy, I know he isnt a natural pg but a backcourt with him and JJ would be lovely. They are both better at setting players up than any of our pgs (Acie will get there one day). I forgot the bloggers name but we were screaming for BK to trade the 5th pick that year to the Hornets. They really wanted to move up and wanted to get rid of JR Smith at the same time. We could have had two first round picks and another sg to relieve JJ . We could have then taken Marcus Williams and the best player available. I know people look back at the draft where we passed over Chris Paul but that draft of 06 was probably the biggest blunder of the two.

By JB

January 4, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Good topic for the new year, Z.

A wise YOUNGER man once told me that in his business, “I used to think my job was to motivate people. The further I go, though, I believe that motivation only comes from inside. My job is just to get rid of the unmotivated ones so the motivated ones can do their jobs.”

As in life, so in basketball. All the greats have had an internal force driving them…..so much so that it also drove the team. Think about it: Russell, Isaiah, Magic, Bird, Jordan.

I think Garnett belongs in that group. Maybe Kobe has that internal combustion. Maybe a couple of others. Does Joe have it? His engine drives him. This season, we’ll see if that same engine can drive the team.

But the more important question is: does that kind of engine drive ME? Not to be a better player—I’m too old for that. Maybe for some of you young guns. But to be a better person—a better friend, husband, father, worker; to succeed in whatever arena I choose.

Motivation…..is it in you?

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 4, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

I agree with the people who think Lue pounds the ball too much — this is why he shouldn’t be the starter. But are you really ready to rely on Acie Law as the primary backup point guard? Right now I don’t think he’s ready for that. For all of Lue’s faults he’s still a pretty good clutch shooter and can provide some reliable ballhandling when its necessary. I don’t think it’s a good idea to trade him — the Hawks will need him down the stretch.

If I was gonna trade anyone on the Hawks it would be Salim Stoudamire and/or Zaza Pachulia. Zaza is useless as far as I’m concerned, since he no longer does the one thing he ever did efficiently (crash the offensive boards). The Hawks could use Salim’s perimeter shooting ability, but there are simply not enough minutes to go around in the backcourt between JJ, AJ, Lue, and Law. If the Hawks could package these two guys in a trade they should do it. Try to get a defensive stopper with some range (someone like James Posey maybe) or a bruising big guy who can crash the boards inside and bring some energy off the bench. If you can find a post scorer who is more efficient than Zaza that is great but chances are you would have to give up a lot more in a trade to get one of those.

By Astro Joe

January 4, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

Return of the Swagger Curse. Sekou used the word in his “closing out the game” article and true to form, we look like a team that should never use the “s” word. So far, the use of that word is about 9 for 10 in terms of resulting in a humiliating performance.

Hawks look like they’re in the midst of a 17 game road trip. Tired, lazy & disinterested.

By Mike

January 4, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

Man these Hawks are flat as an inner tube. Woody got that look again. These are in funk. We’ll see what happen, but it ain’t looking good.

I feel you CP, but these Hawks look so flat I’m speechless.

By THE Hawks Fan

January 4, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

JJ has a bandage on his right hand. Like a sprained thumb or something???? WTF did WOODY wait till a 30 point lead to put Mario West IN?????? AAAARRGHHHHHHH!!!!!!

By JJ

January 4, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

just as I thought that 5 game win streak was a fluke. Nobody seems to want to play. Joe Johnson needs to demand the ball more. Marvin needs to be traded for a center quick.Woody needs to get a lesson on how to motivate his team.

By g-thang

January 4, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

man…why do y’all keep followin’ the Hawks? I mean some of you all are here every day, bloggin’ 10 times about the Hawks. THEY ARE THE HAWKS!! They suck!! Get over it!!! 1st they traded ‘Nique for Danny Manning, who left the next year. You give Konkak undeserved millions, You bring in Rider, have crazy drafts like Rumeal Robinson, you had Rasheed for 1 game and let him get away for nothin’. You mortgage the farm to get J.J., which you did not have to do. You draft Sheldon 5, for what? The team is frought with ineptitude. If your girl was as inconsistent and incompetent as the Hawks, you all would have been gone, but you keep coming back to the Hawks and get your hearts broken every time…tsk,tsk,tsk!!

By ?????

January 4, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Where is Salim? Why is Zaza not playing? Why can’t Solomon play? Everyone can keep praising Woodson but it is obvious that his team can’t stand him. Look at the timeouts and how they interact with him. If he ever made an adjustment instead on standing with that blank look I would fall off my couch.

By randy

January 4, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

SAME OL’ HAWKS!! Law is another bumb.

By g-thang

January 4, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

As a matter of fact, the Hawks only have 2 players from their last 8 drafts, In ‘99, they had 4 1st rd. picks, none of them are still on the team. How did Demarr Johnson workout for them? Dion Glover? Jumaine Jones? None of these guys are still in the league. Oh don’t forget ‘04 draft where the rocket scientist kept passin’ on pt. guards, but you give Craig Claxton millions, OMFG!!!

By randy

January 4, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t give a pair of old, stanky underwear for Marvin Williams.

By g-thang

January 4, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Quit calling Joe Johnson an All-Star. This guy doesn’t show up every night. He was an allstar by default last year. Kobe is an all star, Dwight Howard, is an all star, Chris Bosh, is an all star, Steve Nash is an all star, Gilbert Arenas is an all star. Stop callin’ J.J. an allstar. He is jus’ an average Joe.

By Tiger Woo

January 4, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

The Hawks are struggling a bit right now - but let’s face it - a 15 - 15 record isn’t all bad - they are still in the thick of the playoff race.

That being said - these next 5 straight home games are very important - the Hawks need to win at least 3 of them to stay in the hunt - they have a 5 game Western trip at the end of the month - they definitely need to be over .500 before they head West or it could get ugly.

By randy

January 4, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

G-thang,

Luckily tho, Cal Bowdler, Adam Keefe, and Ed Gray worked out magically for us. Look at this Who’s Who list: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/draft.html

By Tiger Woo

January 4, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Hey g-thang,

Joe Johnson is certainly an all-star caliber player - but he definitely has some nights where he doesn’t step up and take the initiative as the team leader.

Tonight was a stinker for Joe - 3 for 11 from the field - 8 points. Teams are making it very difficult for Joe to operate - who’s going to pick up the slack when Joe is struggling?

Marvin Williams had a stinker tonight as well and Al Horford seems to be slowing down a bit. The Joshes were the only ones that came to play tonight.

Tomorrow’s game vs. New Jersey is a very important game for the Hawks - they need to come out with intensity and get a win at home to restore some confidence.

By g-thang

January 4, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Including the last 3 losses, the Hawks will lose the next 6 games giving them 9 losses in a row 15-24. They won’t win again ‘til they play Milwaukee.

Ando, Astro Joe, I.Mus.Write…Please let me see y’all defend this crappy play tonight. The Hawks will finish up worse than last year. They will win only 13 more games and end up 28-54. No 1st rd picks in ‘08. No major trades will take place due to the ownership fued, ‘08 will be just as bad or worse. Stop bloggin’ stop goin’ to games, when they lose enough money they will make a change.

By g-thang

January 4, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Woo i am very angry and frustrated wit’ the Hawks…Could you tell? There is a diff between all star caliber and all star. Anybody can be “allstar caliber” but not everyone can be an allstar. An allstar takes over a game, puts the team on his shoulder every night. Even if his shot is off he makes up in other ways. MARIO WEST is the only one fightin’ and huslin’ every night. I wish that he could get 30-35 minutes and see what happ. West is hungry and it shows. The rest of the Hawks are full and happy, no fight in them. Woo I will be at the “LOW LIGHT” factory tomorrow. We will see what happ.

By Ramon

January 4, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

I LOVE Horford’s game. However, has anyone noticed how much his production has change since the Toronto game? Is it me or does it seem as if he’s still being bothered by the Ford incident? It doesn’t seem as if he’s been as aggressive as he was before. I truly hope this is something that will go away with time and isn’t permanent.

By jlewis

January 4, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

The Hawks team is a collection of good athletes, but everyone has forgotten one thing. This team should run it’s offense thru JJ, and they forget that sometimes. He is the only one that can get his shot and create for others. Those in love with Josh Smith, don’t be fooled, he is fundamentally flawed and selfish.

I thought AC Law would be a good point, but he’s not, he should be traded right now. He is lost, does not know how to get the ball to JJ and gets minutes with no assists, if he is not biting as a puppy, he won’t bite full grown. Woodson should be fired, please, he does not know how to coach with any talent and this team has talent.

By Tiger Woo

January 4, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

g-thang,

I am angry and frusrtated as well. Just when you think the Hawks are ready to soar - 5 straight wins - they have 3 straight losses and their wings are clipped.

However, I’m trying to stay positive - the Hawks were 9 - 21 at this point last year - so they have improved by six wins at this point.

It’s a long season and there will be highs and lows - the good teams are able to bounce back from performances such as tonight’s game.

I will be at the “LOW LIGHT” factory tomorrow as well. Let’s see what the Hawks are truly made of.

Regarding Joe Johnson - I expect him to step up his game tomorrow night - we’ll see.

By smartguy

January 4, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Ramon, that is a great point. You seem to notice some of the fine details, yes? And for some of the other haters, chill out a bit. There is nothing wrong with our players; it is the coach. Not only is it obvious between Woody and the players, but even worse is the constant bickering between Woody and his assistants.

To me, the one thing that has been proven this year is that we have the players to win (slightly above .500). And while I think Woody coaches a good game every now and then, I don’t think he is a good coach, who can adjust and get along with different people.

Fire Woody and watch this team skyrocket!!

By Clyde

January 4, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Tiger Woo

January 5, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

FIRE WILLY AND BOODY

By cp

January 5, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this

If they lose the next game it will become very ugly. That is all I will say.

By g-thang

January 5, 2008 5:05 AM | Link to this

Fire Billy and Woody

By g-thang

January 5, 2008 5:38 AM | Link to this

Warning The Hawks bandwagon has a serious defect, but a recall has not been issued, yet. The next stop New Jersey, please get it fixed. If it is not fixed with N.J., you are in jeopardy of careening off the side of the mountain. The N.J. game will determine if I get off of the bandwagon. The conductor is not qualified, and is driving without a license.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 5, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

G THANG- you alright bro. you seem kinda angry. We played like shyt last night no doubt- but we are going to have these type of games.I mean awful… we couldnt hit any shots ~ and Indiana couldnt miss~ I would have liked to see us go to a zone at some point but oh well…..

Ryder- Im off the trading bandwagon too~ there is no way teams are going to trade for our garbage (SEHLDON~ZAZA How many open shots did Sheldon miss last night. How many fumbled balls. How many times did he get scored on in the post… He looked bad last night~ trade him yes/ but who the hell wants him. Atleast Woody had the nads to sit ZAZA and Tlue most of the game. G- gotta disagree with you on the record. No way we lose more games than last year~ Its obvious this is a better product than last year.

JJ is going to have bad games but so do other stars in the league. I honestly cant think of 5 SG in the league that i would take over him right now. Kobe and who else+

We are going to be okay-I mean we are .500….. For all of you who want to bash marvin and JJ for having a bad night—juz rediculous

Go ahead and jump off the wagon -hope there is a rope tied to your waist…. fickle azz fans i tell u

By new jersey faithful

January 5, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Horford could be heading towards the ‘wall’ This point in the season is about a full college season, maybe a little less. 2nites game is HUGE!! We have to find a way to WIN!!

By ray

January 5, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Astro Joe, I see what you mean. My thinking however, was based on Roy and JJ sharing ball-handling duties. I think that making either player the sole ball-handler/distributor would be a mistake. And in all actuality, both players proved that theory, although for slightly different reasons. Consider when we tried that with Joe: he’s not a pg by nature, and the team was even younger and more inexperienced than now. And with Roy: He was young, not naturally a pg, and his team was young and seriously disjointed. I mean, what kind of leadership and chemistry can you expect on a team where Zach Randolph is your most experienced and steady veteran? Set up to fail in both situations. I really think letting them share duties would have allowed them to do a few things: confuse/intimidate defenses, feed off each other, and keep either from being the nightly target of double and triple teams. After all, there’s no way a team guards both guys without leaving the other 3 players on the court wiiiiiide open. But hey, that’s just what I think. It’ll never happen now, so it’s just another wisp of smoke in the wind coming from the tobacco pipe….

As for last night: it was ugly. We looked like we were out of gas and didn’t care. What’s worse? We got destroyed by Granger and Dunleavy. We couldn’t hit a shot to save our lives. Childress had a career night, Josh did what he normally does for the most part (including some beautiful spin moves), and everybody else was well below their game.

I am no longer convinced that Woodson is even part of the larger problem. The guy has obviously managed to connect with his players, as was evidenced by last month’s successes. The team was playing hard at the time. I still have a fit sometimes about his game-time decisions and what not. But, you have to wonder at some point if he would do better with a better constructed roster? I actually think he would. He’s not an experienced head coach (hence some of the horrendous mistakes, I imagine). But still…I find myself not seeing things as I did before..

Well, that’s three losses. One much uglier than the other. Gotta stop the bleeding before it becomes worse. Last night’s effort was abysmal. Who’s next?

By I.MUS WRITE

January 5, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Acie Law is a rumor at this point.We didnt pick Connely cuz he could’nt shoot—- News flash neither can Acie. He had 8 points last night -6 points came after they were up 23 points or more-i think thats called garbage time. He just does’nt show me that floor general thing-as soon as he crosses half court he gives the ball up. AC doesnt attack enough and when he does its a missed lay up or missed shot. He really doesnt score-Is’nt Connely more the natural point -all i heard around draft time is how much of a shooter Law is……..Like I said he is a rumor at this point_thats juz great. I personally wanted the guy Stuckey. Hope Acie makes me look foolish at some point this season

By ray

January 5, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

I.Mus Write, point taken. Except one thing: taking Conley would’ve been something that we would’ve had to have done at #3. And then we wouldn’t have been able to get Horford for certain. In fact, who would we have ended up with? At this point, I don’t think anyone we could’ve picked would’ve done what Horford is doing for us now, with exceptiong of the two guys we weren’t going to be able to get: Durant and Oden (who’s out, ironically enough). As for Law, he’s learning, and doing so with less minutes than before. You can lay that blame where you choose…

By SSI Fan

January 5, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Ramon

You may be right, but the only times I remember the Lakers winning the championship they had either Chamberlain, Jabbar, or O’Neal as the starting center for the year. They did win a championship game one year when Jabbar was hurt and Magic played center for one game, but that was just one game. Look what happened to the Lakers when they traded O’Neal for L. Odum, Caron Butler, and some other “versatile” player. They didn’t make the playoffs for a couple of years. They have resurfaced after Bynum began playing. Even Jordan’s Bulls teams had either Bill Cartwright or 7 foot Luc Longley at center and 6’10” Horace Grant or the undersized but rebounding demon, Dennis Rodman, at power forward.

I certainly don’t want Curry, but I would like the Hawks to have a 7 foot starting center who can play defense and average close to 10 rebounds and 10 points a game. I agree that there are not many of those around.

How many championships have the Nets won with Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson? My point is the Hawks may have a good enough team to make the playoffs, but I want them to build a team that has a chance to win it all. Horford and Smith had 4 rebounds each last night. The Hawks had 35 rebounds and the Pacers had 49.

By Pete

January 5, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

They have to win tonight and get it together. The season is not over. I have noticed Woodson has gotten away from his energy boosting strategy of Mario West early in the game. He put him in last night when the game did not matter anymore. Honestly, Lue should not play anymore for the Hawks. It would put the onus on AJ, Law and West if Lue were out of the rotation. Let him be 100% before he plays again.

On another note, too bad they did not make that draft day deal for Jarrett Jack he was awesome against Chicago on Thursday.

By doc

January 5, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

that confounding thing as ray and aj argue the roy thing and whether he is a real point guard is that the guy we got and are saying he is our point of the future is a tweener too. does acie really do anything different than roy who gets to the basket very efficiently, plays tough d and is showing an ability to get assists while he scores. seems roy shares the ball pretty good and maybe better than jj especially with the game on the line. it set us back at least a year.

look acie is really good but he made his name on being a scoring guard who gets assists not a point guard that can score after making the plays for his team. it wasnt his abilit to get the ball into the guys hands that could get the shot but taking the shot. i guess that is my definition of a point guard.

you guys can try but you cant have it both ways in your argument especially aj as you calmly dish your, “if speedy were only healthy” line. ultimately, we got a tweener that has to learn how to be a point and that is where he is having his difficulty fitting the necessary mold. i assure you we all see how lue is a point guard as he holds the ball and waits for someone to get open. unfortunately, instead of moving the ball first he wants it to be set up for him.

as far as the blog and how it sounds, funny what a difference it makes just over a weeks time. it reminds me of the changing tides low sometimes and high sometimes. we have gone from the folks suggesting we are heading to 50 wins to the low ballers suggesting 28 is all we get. somewhere in the middle 35 to 38 is still my guess and in this division will have us clamoring to think we are playoff bound and how cool that is and reachable in spite of the obvious flaws. yes, dont forget i am a terrible prognosticator; 5 of the next 7 sounds really stupid now as they got out of the gate with two straight losses. ok, we can still win 5 straight, i feel the tide rising.

peaceful saturday folks.

By doc

January 5, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

ramon, yes ssi is correct. one game as a center made magic real but didnt define his complete career. the suns did pretty good with diaw of all people in the post for some of the time one season. ssi is right on as far as the legacy of the lakers and it may be that you are too young to get the relevance. it was kareem, chamberlain and shaq whose shoulders the lakers rode. look jerry west and elgin baylor didnt sniff it until wilt came along with a ring already on his finger that he earned by himself in philly one year before they got theirs. unfortunately baylor wasnt a factor. bigs count period or guys that can play big. the pistons and bulls didnt fly on their bigs but had tough guys or talls in the middle to carry the load. another small who didnt come close until a big in lew alcindor (before the conversion) came along was the greatest point of them all still, oscar robertson.

By Ramon

January 5, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

SSI, you make valid points. But what you have to realize is, until the team make the playoffs, no true talented player wants to come here. JJ came because the contract was front loaded more than anything. I truly believe if the Hawks get a defensive minded 7 footer coming off the bench, then they can make it into the second round of the playoffs at least. Matched with Smoove, a defensive minded center off the bench would lead to LONG rebounds and more fast break opportunities.

You spoke about Kareem, but when the Lakers would run many times Kareem would be on the sideline watching. To get a slower 7 foot starter would slow down the pace of the game, and thats the opposite of what the Hawks are trying to do.

You said the Bulls had Luc Longley, but the Bulls had Jordan, Pippen, and a leading rebounder who is shorter than Josh Smith. In other words, the had FOUR Hall of Famers on the team if you include Phil Jackson. When did you ever watch the game and think, the Bulls would be losing this game if it wasn’t for Longley or Wennington? The Bulls didn’t win because of the presence of Longley. Longley was less athletic than Zaza on a bad day.

I’m just saying if the team is going to be a running team, I would much rather have an active Horford starting at the 5, than 7 foot center who’s always the last one down the court.

Realistically, what center could be acquired now who wouldn’t be a project also? You don’t want to get too much of a veteran center if he’s going to limit you from being able to resign Smooth and Marvin. I just think it would be more beneficial to find a situational back up like Ratliff, or Pryzbilla, who comes off the books at the end of the year. If you do that then you guarantee yourself a playoff spot without mortgaging your future. Not to mention, you also guarantee yourself the Suns won’t have a lottery pick.

No one on this roster who the Hawks want to keep have reached their maximum potential. Even JJ hasn’t come to his peak yet. So if the team is competing now, and doing quite well. Why not see if you just may have you something special? Remember when Wallace was in Orlando he was worse than Horford is right now. I think they’re not too much different in the height department.

By cp

January 5, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

This is a must win game against New Jersey. The last time we played them we came out flat and it was not a good game. Sean Williams will be a problem for us. The guy is starting to look like a very promising young player. He slid in the draft because of a questionable character and background. As far as the Roy playing pg convo going on, If i remember correctly they played him at pg in the summer league the past summer. I might be wrong but I think he played it very well. I will have to google some articles about it or check out the Portlaand realgm page. I might be wrong so dont hold me to it but I do think he played pretty well at the pg position when they tried him there in the summer but I could be wrong. When i do some googling i will come back and post some of the articles.

By cp

January 5, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

I found this article. I will copy n paste it also just in case the link doesnt work………http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Vegas-Summer-League,:-Day-4-1399/

Brandon Roy

Roy was far and away the best player on the floor today, creating offense for himself and especially his teammates every time he touched the ball. His phenomenal combination of ball-handling skills, footwork, quickness and smarts allowed him to shred up the defense and get into the paint whenever he pleased, and he did a great job finishing with either hand at the basket, pulling up from mid-range, getting to the free throw line or finding the open man spotting up on the wing. Roy is certainly not a point guard, but he’s looked more and more natural at the position every game that has gone by so far. He’s incredibly unselfish and will very rarely miss an open teammate.

Roy wasn’t quite as prolific in the 2nd half, but he still impressed mightily every time he touched the ball. Even when he cuts his man down, gets into the paint and misses, he still looks really good.

By Astro Joe

January 5, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Ray & Doc, at least we have advanced one year forward to debate the ‘06 draft. I guess that can be considered progress.

I can’t argue the results nor am I trying to… a JJ/Roy backcourt likely would be terrific. They would have the same problems against quick PGs that most big backcourts have and may be prone to a lot of traps and full court press defenses resulting in starting the half-court sets with little time to run a play. But again, I can’t argue with the actual data. My point is simply in the initial plan.

It is like arguing if taking 285 to tha airport is better than 75/85 after the fact. If you think the more direct route is faster, yet you get caught in traffic using 75/85, it is difficult to have the debate. I personally think that a cheap big man to anchor the defense and a veteran PG is a better route to success than asking a rookie to split positions effectively and pay premium for a veteran big man who would provide one-dimensional support. But given that we’re seemingly caught in a jam (Shelden & Speedy) and have missed the flight (Roy as ROY), I guess I will lose the argument that 75/85 is a better path to the playoffs.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 5, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

By no means am i suggesting that we should have taken Coneley at #3. Horford was definitely the best choice. I was more so comparing the two players.Actually they look almost the same.No jumper to speak of and they get to the hole in a hurry. It makes you question the person evaluating the talent.

Maybe i should be the GM. I would have picked Stuckey at 11. The guy is 6’5 and plays both guard spots well- Nice jumper,Really athletic and handles the rock well.

He is stuck in Detroit behind Chauncey ,but just wait he is going to be a good one.He reminds me of a bigger Wade or a smaller JJ-either way you cant lose.

I think Woody is reading this blog, because every time we complain about a players performance they hit the pine ie… Zaza and Lue What about the ice grill Woody gave Law after he passed with 2 seconds on the shot clock. Thats what im talking about -never mind being liked get in someone’s face when they do something crazy.

Tonight is a must win game-why is there no Tv coverage that sux big time …. MUS……

By kwooden1

January 5, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

I couldn’t bring myself to blog until now, I listened to entire game last night. I wish I could see some of these games, because I just can’t believe that these guys just give up like it sounded like they did last night. I’ve always believed that coaches earn their money during games, getting their teams to execute what they learned in practice. These guys seldom look good out of time-outs or half time. This game, Indiana started hitting threes and we could not score. Everything snowballed and they had no answers. Its the coaches job to figure things out and also get the team to play hard. Its very fustrating for me to see Woodson coach because I watch Eddie Jordan of the Wizards coach. Eddie’s teams play hard every night and they have an offense system that they stick with. Maybe Woodson can get better, but I don’t believe it, even though I hope he does.

Tonight is big game for the guys mentally. They have been recovering from losses pretty well so far this year, so lets see if they can do it again.

GO HAWKS!!

By doc

January 5, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

as usual, good comeback aj.

i.mus, i too suggested stuckey since we already had slew of point guards that were small and he is a stud with the same type of attributes to the guy we got. he has been hurt but his gm is really high on him, sees a bit of himself in the guy. i imagine when given the opportunity he will teach him some smarts along the way.

By Ramon

January 5, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

Prediction, I think Smoove goes for 28/12/6 tonight, and the Hawks win by 7 points. And I think Law goes for 14/6 assists.

By Malone

January 5, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Just remember…

We’re 5-3 in our last eight games. How many times have we said THAT in the last three years?

By jamilliondadon

January 5, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

wat’s up i don’t usually do dis.i’m a musician not a coach but i know my shyt. da hawks have one of da most talented rosters in da league.this core with da addition of 2 maybe 3 pieces is a dynasty waiting 2 happen.da most needed urgent piece is a coach. woodson does not know wat 2 do wit da pieces he has.and his offenses look lost,and dis waiting on jj like he’s a elite playershyt need 2 cease,some1 said u could’nt name 5 guards better 30 teams in dis league half have a superior guard or 1 just as nice.

By JohnGTFan

January 5, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

I know I said not to be concerned about losing 2 or 3 in a row…but what is going on? I mean, other than JJ not being able to hit water if he fell out of a boat? I can only watch online being in DC…can someone please enlighten me to what happens in the 4th qtr since New Year’s??? It’s painful to watch the “gamecast”…I imagine it’s more so in person or on TV.

By hocker

January 5, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

After playing like crap at home tonight for a 4th loss in a row, it looks the “old” Hawks are back. Horford looks like he’s running out of gas and Law is a flop at point guard. Phoenix may get a lottery pick yet.

By tim

January 5, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Same old Hawks. They stink, as usual.

By new jersey faithful

January 5, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

I dont get to watch many Hawks games, and I dont watch too much basketball anymore and I remember why. The NBA sucks! The refs are a joke and are soooooo inconsistent! Its ok to watch a game in person from time to time, but its so frustrating to watch NBA games. Guys barely get touched and its a foul, then someone gets whacked and of course no foul is called. And it doesnt help that the ‘superstars’ get favorable calls all the time, the whole league sucks!!

By Ramon

January 5, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

I LOVE JJ. However, I wonder what would happen with a JJ, Sheldon and someone else, for a Maggette and Kaman trade. I’m not saying I want JJ traded, I’m just curious what would happen.

By RaJaH

January 5, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Hawks should petition the refs in this game!

By Ryder

January 5, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

What’s going on is what I told everyone since the get go:

ALL NBA TEAMS FIND THEIR RHYTHM RIGHT AFTER CHRISTMAS!

I’m not surprised, and neither are guys like Ando and Clyde who have seen this coming from the get go.

Guess what, the teams Atlanta beat in November and early December are now in their regular rhythm, and the Hawks are finding out they aren’t man enough to battle them. Also, they surprise no one anymore, so teams aren’t going to take them lightly.

Al hasn’t ran out of gas, but the fact that they have decided not to give him any assistance down low (not by trade, i’m talking about by Zaza and Wright) he is getting worn down.

This is where we will see one of two things happen by the end of this homestand: either Atlanta gets its act together or Woodson better start polishing up that resume.

Let’s see if he has what it takes to build up this team before Cleveland comes to town.

By DJ

January 5, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

The Hawks may not win 3 games in the month of January. That would pretty much put a fork in their season. They’re well on their way to a typically miserable season. The first 2 months were an illusion. The team is weak and can’t compete down the stretch of an NBA season. No center and no point guard. A lethal combination in this league.

By Matt

January 5, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

The Hawks are a lost cause as long as JJ’s shooting troubles continue. I remember back in the late 90’s (‘99 I think?) when Ray Allen started a season going hot-and-cold, and the Bucks went hot-and-cold with him. It’s the same with the Hawks and JJ.

That man has to get his shot back, or the Hawks are sunk.

Oh, and for what it’s worth - the Hawks actually looked good after their timeouts tonight. Most dramatically, they cut it from 12 to 5 in the 4th within 2 minutes after a timeout in the fourth. But as long as JJ misses his jumpers and Smoove and Marvin miss their free throws, they can’t hope to win.

By ray

January 5, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, I understand what you’re saying. I guess we will see where it goes from here.

By DJ

January 5, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

The Hawks and the Falcons have 2 things in common. They both are named after birds and they both suck.

By ray

January 5, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Smoove missed some free throws, as did Marvin. But both had good games offensively. Smoove keeps looking good. JJ’s off again. And we don’t have enough offense to make up for it when it happens. ONCE AGAIN, it’s called having a better balanced roster. We’ve got ONE guy that comes off the bench and gets you some buckets: Childress…and he’s not even what I’d call a scorer. The only other guy who might be able to do it is Salim, who doesn’t play.

Looks like Horford’s running out of gas? What the heck have myself and others been screaming all this time? Get the guy some help! Notice he doesn’t seem to be a double digit rebounder lately? It’s not his fault, I can tell you that.

Law is not a flop. He needs to play a consistent amount of minutes. This team setup is not optimal for anybody to learn how to play in the NBA. I’m hoping for better, but that’s four losses in a row. Now what? We need to stop the bleeding. Figure out how we got here and figure out how to get past it. Unfortunately, things are heating up in the new year (as is the case EVERY year) and teams are figuring out how to beat us (other than the obvious ways). Hang on…the roller coaster is just warming up. No, I’m not preaching gloom and doom. But I’m not surprised by the reactions or the losses either.

By DJ

January 5, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Hawks stink. Period. You guys can analyze this and analyze that, but the Hawks will not be in the playoffs again this year. Or next year, or the year after that or the year after that…They suck and that’s all there is to it.

By Tiger Woo

January 5, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

Ray,

Salim doesn’t play because he has an ankle injury - not that he was doing much when he was healthy.

Acie Law may not be a bust, but he’s certainly a major dissapointment. The guy has no jump shot and hasn’t had much of an impact at all.

Al Horford just can’t stay out of foul trouble. He starts the second half and promptly gets his fourth foul and heads to the bench.

Joe Johnson was a major disappointment. Back to back poor games. Not a good sign.

Th Hawks have a 7 point lead at the half - then they come out in the third quarter and throw it all away.

By jamilliondadon

January 5, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

i don’t usually do dis type of thing.i’m a entertainer not a s.a. but i know my sports and i’m tired of seeing dis talent get wasted,because of a futile coach who 4sum reason thinks he has a kobe,lebron,wade,or a.i. on dis squad earth 2 woody u don’t ,mistake number 2 da offense revolves around a player who’s not a eliteplayer.paul pierce as good as he is couldnt carry da celtics 2 dis level til he got ray & kg.dis team can be da next phoenix or utah easily wit da right point and coaching

By Listen Up!!

January 5, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

You know what sucks is all YOU Prickless worms and weasels who come out of the wood work when things go bad. Where were you at when they winning 5 in a row?? Hell we all know this Team has struggled over the last 120 years. So what??? They are damn trying! I lost my voice tonight yelling for these guys becuase they gave everything they had to try and win. They played hard as they could. Kinda hard to beat the NJ mafia. David Stern if you think that ref thing was an ISOLATED event ur full of crap!! Lastly JJ is HURT (jammed a finger a couple of days ago and cant grip the ball at all it seems) and Burnt out!! Sit him for a few games, get his legs back. lets stop this losing streak!!! I dont wanna have to suit up!

By Tiger Woo

January 5, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

Hey jamilliondadon,

It’s less about coaching and more about players stepping up and getting the job done.

Is Doc Rivers suddenly a better coach than he was last year - or does he have more talent to work with now?

Pat Riley is the same coach that led the Miami Heat to a championship. What’s the difference this year? Has he forgotten how to coach - or are the players failing to deliver?

By Tiger Woo

January 5, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

So Listen Up,

Ar you saying it’s a conspiracy with the refs? Give me a break.

If JJ’s hand is so hurt, why is he jacking up bricks left and right?

Sure, the Hawks are trying, but something is missing with this team. I’m sitting there at Phillips watching the Hawks build a 14 point lead, somehow thinking that they will find a way to blow the lead.

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 5, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

If your best scorer doesn’t score in double figures and your best rebounder only plays half the game because of foul trouble, you are probably gonna lose. It’s that simple.

The Hawks are still a decent team. Are they as good as the team that pulled off a 5 game winning streak not too long ago? Probably not. Are they as bad as the team that has currently lost 4 games in a row? Probably not. In the beginning of the season most of us had them pegged for somewhere between 38 and 42 wins. They will probably end up in that range, probably towards the upper half, and right now they are on pace for that.

What this team is lacking is not talent or heart, it’s depth. The team right now has one consistent perimeter scorer, one effective bruiser inside, one reliable interior defender, and two reliable spot up shooters. Most championship contenders have two or three of each. The way the team is currently built, Joe Johnson and either Marvin or Josh Smith has to play well for this team to have a chance to win. When Joe is struggling like he is right now, the team is gonna struggle too. It’s that simple.

By dj

January 5, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

hawks suck big green donkey dix.

By Najeh Davenpoop

January 5, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

Also I wouldn’t write off Acie Law yet. Injuries are really tough on young players and their development. Case in point: Marvin Williams last year, who was dominating until his hand injury, after which he never entirely regained his prior form for the rest of the year. You can’t expect Law to come back from his injury and immediately start producing at a high level, being the rookie that he is. Law needs to work on his range, yeah, but he’s shown pretty good quickness and ability to finish near the rim in the limited time that he’s played. If he hasn’t improved at all by the time the All-Star break rolls around then we can start calling him a disappointment.

By Tiger Woo

January 6, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

Najeh,

Listening to the talk from the players in the preseason and early season, this was supposed to be the year for the Hawks to get over the hump and become a consistent winner. All of the pieces were supposed to be in place now.

Now, you’re saying that the team is lacking in several areas? Maybe we have unrealistic expectations for this team?

By Clyde

January 6, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

Hello Ken Strickland and clyde=moron.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Tiger Woo

January 6, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

Can we get a do-over and draft Chris Paul? Man, that kid knows how to run a ballclub and put the ball in the basket. N.O. is 23-11 - just beat Phoenix on the road! The Hawks backcourt was a no-show tonight.

By Ramon

January 6, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

This comment will be brief but honest. To write off ANY player in their rookie season, after only 20 games (he was injured many more of them) is the most foolish thing anyone can do, plain and simple.

By Jay

January 6, 2008 1:30 AM | Link to this

Ok, now I think we have to make a trade. We have the players that I thought could solve our problems. Salim and Law SHOULD give us outside shooting, Zaza and Shelden SHOULD give Horford help down low. But its not happening, so trade them for help. Trade Shelden or Zaza before their value drops any lower. Heck, I’d trade anyone except Marvin, Horford and Smith.

What we really need is a second scorer off the bench. I thought it would be Zaza but its clear that isnt happening. Then I thought it would be Law but his jumper must still be in College Station.

If we can package Chills and spare parts, lets grab Gasol. Heck, we should be able to grab a big from Seattle or Clips.

I cant believe how much of a bust Shelden is. At least when we passed on Paul and Deng we got good players with Chills and Marvin. Shelden, for the fifth pick, gives us NOTHING. Imagine if we had Chills and Roy coming off our bench! We could definately be the Suns of the east then.

By Totheuniformed

January 6, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

First, Salim is not hurt. Woodson & Salim can’t stand each other and that is the excuse they are using. Second, JJ and his team wants Woodson gone as you can tell from his effort lately. AJ just called Woodson out in a Terrence Moore article. This team hates Woodson and thinks he is a terrible coach. They want to run and he wants to play TLue. When they run they are hard to defend. When they run that stagnant offense they are easily contained. It will interesting to see how Woodson reacts to what AJ said. It won’t be the first person on this team that has been f* with by Woodson.

By Tiger Woo

January 6, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

Hey Totheuniformed,

This is the story on Salim: (prior to the Indiana game)

STOUDAMIRE MISSING: Guard Salim Stoudamire missed his fourth straight road trip and his 11th game of the season with a sprained right ankle. “He can’t practice on it, so we didn’t want him traveling on it,” coach Mike Woodson said. “He can run straight ahead on it, but he said he can’t cut. And until he can move laterally, he can’t really do what he needs to do to get back.”

How do you know Woodson doesn’t like Salim? In addition, if Woody wants to play TLue, how come he didn’t play in the New Jersey game? He was in uniform and appeared to be healthy.

By Tiger Woo

January 6, 2008 2:01 AM | Link to this

Jay,

It’s too early to talk about trading Acie Law. He’s just a rookie and is still learning how to play in this league.

If Shelden is such a bust, what do you expect the Hawks to get in return if they trade him? Shelden has actually showed signs of improvement this year.

I agree with you that changes may need to be made - however, the best route may be via free agency.

I would definitely keep Chills - he is about the best thing they have coming off the bench.

By Clyde

January 6, 2008 2:56 AM | Link to this

This team is just pain out horrible. Some of yall suckers got fooled into thinking this team could make it into the playoffs but I knew we were flawed from the start.

First of all our go to guy ain’t a go to guy. He is complimentary scorer that does not know how to drive to the hole when his jump shot is not falling. We need a go to guy with a killer instinct like Lebron and Kobe.

Second of all our bigs ain’t big enough. Sheldon and Horford were clearly outmatched by Boone and Shaun Williams. Matter a fact I would rather have drafted Shaun Williams than Horford. When he faces taller opponents his only defense is the Al Harrington hack because he isn’t tall enough to block the shot.

Third of all Chris Paul is making Billy Knight look like the dumbest GM of all time. We sure could have used that 28 and 10 tonight.

Fourth of all lets give a moment of silence for Shelden Williams. That dunk RJ had on him was nasty. Well at least he has Candace Parker to help him get over it.

And Sekou Candace looks way better than Beyonce. If you don’t belive me have Candace and Beyonce play a charity basketball game with both of them dripping with sweat and lets see who looks the best. I guarantee Candace would win. Beyonce ain’t all that without her makeup.

BUTT…..

Good Job Tonight JSmooth. You deserve an all-star spot.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By cp

January 6, 2008 3:16 AM | Link to this

How anyone can defend Sheldon is ming boggling. This guy just does not have it. At least when we passed over Paul we got a good player in Marvin but with Sheldon we got absolutely nothing. Actually Clyde we could have taken both Horford and Sean Williams this past draft but we would have passed over a pg again so it would have still been a problem. Man Bk has made so many mistakes that it is not funny. Joe Johnson is looking like he doesnt want to be here. The price tag of Josh Smith is steadily rising. Great move by not tying him up over the summer. Man it is so hard to be a Hawks fan.

By g-thang

January 6, 2008 7:06 AM | Link to this

Mark my word…the Hawks will go on an 8 game losing streak. The next 8 games are as follows: CAVS, WIZ, BULLS,NUGGETS, BUCKS, RAPTORS, BLAZERS, AND @ NUGGETS. Inconsistency at pg., JJ not showing up every night, the players hating Woody. This will culminate into a 12 games losing streak.

Fire Billy and Woody

By g-thang

January 6, 2008 7:19 AM | Link to this

Quit calling Joe Johnson an All-Star. This guy doesn’t show up every night. He was an allstar by default last year. Kobe is an all star, Dwight Howard, is an all star, Chris Bosh, is an all star, Steve Nash is an all star, Gilbert Arenas is an all star. Stop callin’ J.J. an allstar. He is jus’ an average Joe.

By Tiger Woo

January 6, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

g-thang,

There will be no 12 game losing streak - the Hawks will win vs. the Wiz, Bulls, Bucks, and Raptors. They may even win the Cleveland game on Wed.

Don’t jump ship just yet …

By Tiger Woo

January 6, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Clyde,

You may be right about “our go-to guy” JJ. However, he WAS trying to go to the hole vs. NJ - problem is he’s not athletic enough like Lebron and Kobe to finish at the goal.

The problem with Horford of late has been silly fouls early in the game. I think Horford was definitely to player to draft - however, he is not a center and would be better served as a power forward - the Hawks need to find a center to compliment Horford.

I agree on Chris Paul … what a talent - reminds me of Isiah Thomas.

Finally, I think the Hawks can still make the playoffs - they will need to step up their games a notch to get there - I will admit it will be tough with the current squad.

By Mike

January 6, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Clyde these last four does not validate any thing. If that were the case what do that say for others team in the NBA that have endured losing streaks this season. How did the Hawks get to the four spot in the East without others teams going through the same thing. I think Orlando went on a four game loosing streak after we beat them, but they have bounce back. The Hawks can do the same.

This is the first big test for the players, the coaches, and the organization. This team is notorious for struggling during the first part of the season. You hate to see the guys loose four straight game but you know they’re going to struggle over the course of the season. These guys have played too well to be just thrown them under the bus.

Let’s stand by these guys when they need us the most. This is still a really young team. I think this team still has a really bright future. Although I agree Terence Moore that AJ needs to be handed the starting PG job, it’s hard for me to believe anything else he says, he seem to have this magic genie that’s gets him information no else is privileged to.

Not only are teams getting up for the Hawks, they’re attacking the Hawks the way they have in the past. Take away JJ and attack the defense at its weakest point, the post. You should expect teams to do that. Now its time for the Hawks to respond, I think they will. Woody has to try other guys at the post, some how he’s got to AH some relief. Hey if it means trying LoWright and Solomon more than do it.

Starting with the Dallas and to the Jersey game it’s the play in the post that has guys cheating off their man trying to help out down low. They are creating better looks for the opponent’s perimeter shooters. How can anybody be surprise by that? You know teams are to take away JJ, there is just simply not enough scorers on our team to prevent that.

Let’s focus on the positive. This team is still only one game below .500 after loosing four straight. They have garnered respect from the others elite team in the league. They don’t have salary cap problems, and they don’t have a lot aging players on the team.

Teams are giving the Hawks there best shot, and these guys are still fighting. It would be easy for me to try to predict how good we would be with other team’s players, but unfortunately that’s not how it works. We gotta go with the guys we got. I still say we can get more out of the guys we have.

Come on guys let’s keep the faith and stand by these young Hawks. They will get this ship turned around.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By doc

January 6, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

tiger woo, chris paul is much better than isiah. he is the truth reincarnate, none other than the big O. i certainly didnt see it coming.

anyone check out how yi is doing? yes, about 6 bounds a game and 11 points a game and a bit better the last ten games up to 13.5 and 7.5 respectively along with all other categories of interest including being able to make the three by a .33 clip which is all you need to make it relevant to the defense to guard. yes he is even blocking 1.5 shots a game. not too shabby for a 20 year old as of the end of october.

not saying he is better than our guy just reminding those that just couldnt believe a foreigner playing from somewhere else could possibly come in and play much less contribute. maybe it is time to change your belief systems because somehow you couldnt see the forest for the trees. and yes at this point he is considered to be one of the top three rooks this year with the other two, horford and durant.

maybe the team needs to sit down and talk again with each other.

ah, the moments of (non)quiet desperation.

By Astro Joe

January 6, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Time for Ownership to Step Up. Zaza and Shelden are ineffective and Horford has hit the rookie wall. Ownership MUST deliver a productive big man or this season’s playoff hopes are lost. And I’m not talking about a $10M+ big man. Gadzuric, Swift, Petro, any guy who can later a shot or provide the “big man equivalent” to what West does for us.

For all of the individual personnel moves that are constantly debated, we’re still within striking range of a postseason berth. But I don;t see how we get there without some help for Horford and Smith down low. Last night, our Chris Paul-less PGs provided 21 points, 14 assists and 4 TOs. But some guy named Boone gave the Nets the low post production that we were missing.

Bottom line, AJ and Law are far closer to providing solid PG play than a tired Horford/Zaza/Shelden are to manning the C spot. Get r done ownership… spend $1M-2M and help this team sneak into the postseason.

By Tiger Woo

January 6, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Doc,

Even though he is 6’ 11” 238 lbs., Yi Jianlian is able to play his natural PF position since thay have Bogut at center. He also has small forward skills since he can hit the long range shot.

Horford is shorter than Yi @ 6’ 10” 245 lbs. but is expected to play out of position at center. Even though he’s doing a decent job, there are some nights when he is outmatched in the paint. At power forward, he would be a load to handle and much more likely to stay out of foul trouble.

That may be a dilemna since Josh Smith is currently playing the power forward role, but maybe it time to shake things up and experiment a bit.

Perhaps start Lorenzen at center and bring Horford off the bench to back up Josh Smith. That will keep Horford from picking up so many early fouls. If that doesn’t work, make a deal for a backup center.

By Tiger Woo

January 6, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

I think we are expecting a bit much from Horford at this early stage. He is still learning the NBA game and as a rookie, he isn’t getting respect from the refs down low in the paint - as a result, he’s getting into early foul trouble.

Horford hasn’t fully developed a low post offensive game yet. If you recall, Dwight Howard struggled in the paint early on. Now, he has a refined post game and is an MVP candidate and will be a perennial all-star.

Let Horford come off the bench. There will be less pressure on him as he continues to develop his game.

By terrell barron

January 6, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

4th seed to the 8th seed. DAMN, THAT WAS FAST!

By Tiger Woo

January 6, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

I agree with Astro Joe …

Time for the Hawks to make some aggressive moves to improve this team. They are basically the same team as last year, except for the 2 draft picks, so we really shouldn’t expect any drastic improvement over last year.

Look what Boston did … they were 24-58 last year, but instead of waiting for their young prospects to mature like the Hawks, they went out and brought in some veteran talent and now they are 29-3 - already 5 more wins than last year!

Look what the N.O. Hornets did … they signed Morris Peterson and brought in Peja Stojakovic and Tyson Chandler - now they are 23-11.

C’mon ownership … bring in some free agent help for Joe Johnson at the end of the year! Let’s think big and not just settle for “making the playoffs”! Grow a pair!

By doc

January 6, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

heh heh heh, can i go back to the mean spirited soul that seeks to reveal the real culprits in this muck up. it seems like the timing might be right as the tide is getting lower.

ever heard the refrain, it is the owners stupids! … the broken atlanta spirit?

clyde, i told you when you came up with the t-shirt that says; FIRE THE (BROKEN) ATLANTA SPIRIT, i would volunteer to man the booth while you took a break. just let me know when you are in need of some help bro. incidentally i didnt get a trademark on it so i have nothing to gain except to help.

where is my ninja friend when i need him to slay a few giants or dragons? honest?

where is the roid rage of ando or is he simply waiting for the final bell so he can come back in caps and say i told you so to the dreamers of the playoffs in spades?

where is the fun?

By Mike

January 6, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe couldn’t agree whith you more. While I know that the PG position could use an upgrade. I think bringing in some help in the post can help this young Hawks team reach the goal they have for this year. That’s why I’m saying play Solomon or bring in a hungry contract guy and see if he can help us out. Put a package together if you have to, but don’t let this kid keep battling in the post by his self.

I think the one thing guys are over looking with Acie is how difficult it is for young PGs to play for Woody, ask Salim?. That’s why when you hear all the chatter about how other young PGs would have this team playing better you has to take with a grain of salt. Acie is going to have games where he looks really bad, but this guy has all the tangible and intangible attributes necessary to play PG for the Hawks.

You got a legit 6’10’’ guy with a 7’3’’ wing span and got a veteran 6’11’’ guy sitting on the bench going to waste and you’re getting killed in the post. You got a 6’11’’ and 6’8’’ guys not getting the job done, hey it’s time to shake things up.

Tiger Woo made an excellent comment about starting LWright and bringing AH in off the bench. Little tweaks like that may be enough to halt the slide and get the team back on the winning track. Once the post is stabilized guys can go back to playing that aggressive defense that got them to fourth place in the East.

Why not start LWright, and get Solomon some minutes, I’m sure AH would welcome any help he can get.

GO HAWK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Steve T

January 6, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

The hawks propblem is JJ. The hawks ability to win is indicated of how JJ play. JJ had some poor shooting nights and the Hawks fail to win.

JJ needs to get back to doing the things that helped him shoot better. First of all, when he is in a slump, he needs to get some easy baskets. This will help him get into the flow of the game and before he knows it he will be hitting jumpers from every where.

The next thing that needs to happen is Marvin needs to step it up when JJ is having an off night.

Finally Chill may need to come in for JJ if he is having an off night.

This was one of the reason why I said we need a player like Kareem Rush. If JJ is having an off night shooting the ball, we can slide JJ to PG and let Rush play SG.

By Darrin "The Vent King"

January 6, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

I will forgo the usual protocol when things get rough for the Hawks and not start dumping on them. The season is long and hopefully these guys can get it going back right before too long. I still think this team, with the right tweaking, can make the playoffs and get better for years to come. This team has tools, but the point guard is a concern. Getting another solid scorer is one too. Hmm-mm a point that is a solid scorer? Ye-eaaah. I guess a real big man wouldn’t be bad while we’re at it, but who doesn’t need something? That’s the NBA, not everyone can have Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker, or Garnett, Pierce, and Ray Allen. We have what we have and can do some damage but they HAVE to want it EVERY night. Some nights it’s like they lost their mojo or something. They get ho-hum. It’s been like that it seems forever with Hawk teams. It’s like the Braves and scoring or the Falcons and QB’s, CONSISTENT EFFORT is always an issue whether the tools are their or not. I’m not talking one player, the TEAM- role players and the bench, you know the guys who aren’t the stars. Where’s Cliff Levingston when you need effort? He may not have been the best player, but he played with a Kirby Puckett type enthusiasm EVERY game. It was like he couldn’t believe he was in the NBA and was happy about it. Maybe it’s the money today, maybe the fame, I don’t know, but it’s there or rather NOT there some nights. The problem is, you can’t teach that, either you have that “dog” in you or you don’t. I know we’re the Hawks fellas, but we need to bark a little more if we’re going to bite down and leave a mark on this NBA season…

GO HAWKS!!!

By Astro Joe

January 6, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

I remember during my senior year in high school, my English teacher challenged the class to aoiv uding one word that had become far overused by every previous senior class. “Strive”. To this day, I “strive” to avoid using that word.

Well, more than 2 decades later, here comes another well-beaten word to admonish. Swagger. Maybe the Hawks can strive to play better defense, strive to play as a team, strive to share the ball all in the hopes of finding their swagger. After all, it’s not the turnovers nor JJ’s horrific shooting that has burdened their efforts of late. It’s a lack of swagger from a toothless team that had to play a natural SF at C yesterday because of the ineffectiveness of Shelden and Zaza. Yeah, swagger is all they need… damn a big man or a 1st offensive option that shoots less than 40% during the past few games. STRIVE FOR SWAGGER. STRIVE FOR SWAGGER. STRIVE FOR SWAGGER.

Nothing like a short vocabulary list to get you through an 82-game season.

Doc, we need a re-hashing of the past 5 years like we need a 2nd rounder to develop. No need to state the obvious, I’d be interested in opinions of how to fix the situation, not a well written diatribe on the advantages of drafting Randolph Morris.

By doc

January 6, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

aj, chief, a lot of us have given opinions over and over again, to no avail. my opinion is that just like you know there is going to be little movement because the owners are not able to spend either because the judges have them collared or they are too broke poor to spend to make this team more than an nba team on an nhl budget. so i will continue to make observations about where things are now in reflection to the wants and desires of the many opinions that have been expressed here including yours.

to be honest i dont go for the fantasy type of crap about how we should trade this guy for that guy and choose to take my shots when they are really in the perspective of what can truly be done now. in up for a fantasy league as that is how that type of stuff is fantasy and you know it.

personally i think and expressed it at the time that it was a mistake to put lue in there and play him the minutes that we did because it would change chemistry. i didnt realize how much aj had gotten his time cut with the action of his coach until todays article. there has been an underlying tension between aj and woody from the get go and would have only wanted to be a fly on the wall the day they had their words and aj walked. i like the guy because he is a stand up guy and unfortunately all players of significance have had their words with woody outside of his chosen few of jj, rens and lue. yes, i dont get it and you dont either. we have both complimented the guy but have said his management of personnel and games leaves something to be desired. at some point it has to be taken into consideration and for him to be accountable unless they are a very sorry team. in that case it falls on the bk man. at some point the broken atlanta spirit have to step up and give some direction. my opinion of what to be done. i at times dont think it is totally a problem with the players.

it resembles the shambles that the falcons turned into by putting so much faith in petrino. i was very appalled that they got rid of grady jackson during the season. he was their leading tackler and pressure guy and on a reasonable defense that had held the team close. surprise that their defense turned to s..t. i really have to wonder if blank isnt able to watch games like last night and see the folly of his OWN making and wonder who got rid of the guy. if that guy is still in the organization his head should be on a platter even if it is his own. what is it about the emperor that has NO clothes?

that is why i continue to REFLECT on the past because it seems to repeat itself dude. that is the definition of CRAZY. forgive me.

By Ramon

January 6, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Personally, I think our problems as fans are some of us think about the PAST too much. However, MANY of us have made mistakes at work. It does no good to wonder what decision could’ve been made 2,3,4 years ago. The time wondering what could’ve happened is time you’re truly wasting, because when you’re finished with what could’ve happened nothing is accomplished.

No trade, no draft, no kind of personnel moves are 100%. Orlando thought they were going to be title contenders when they traded for Hill. Should the management make a move now, YES, but only if its a good move. No one on this blog knows who is available and for what price. You take McHale for instance, and he is proof that certain people can get certain things for little to nothing. Because everyone knows that wasn’t the best offer they had for Garnett, but look what he chose.

No one on this board knows what is going on when BK is on those telephone lines with other GMs and his own owners. How many teams in the league AREN’T a shooter and extra big man away from being a lot better? If the Wiz had another big who was a banger, they’d be unstoppable, same goes for the Suns, the Bulls (had the same problem in the summer and still do) and more teams. So you do have to be patient so nothing happens that is regrettable. One thing about BK is he hasn’t brought in any player who had questionable character. And many times those are the hardest players to find.

By Astro Joe

January 6, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Doc, I wasn’t referring to you, but to your buddy who you were wondering about earlier. You know, the one who complained about the 59th selection in a previous draft. That’s the re-hashing I can do without. I always like to read forward-looking opinions as opposed to debating Sarver’s intentions.

I agree with your point about AJ. On Hawksquawk, there was optimistic speculation that Lue was being showcased for possible movement. I can see that angle, especially coming off injury. Teams need to see that he is healthy and able to deliver some minutes (in addition to an expiring deal).

Here’s the only bad thing about AJ’s comments to Moore, will the Hawks opt to play him 36 minutes a night and leave Law with insignificant time to learn his craft? If so, Law brings a serious learning curve back to the team next season. AJ, IMHO, needs to find his groove while playing about 28-30 minutes. We can’t give Law the Salim treatment and expect him to be the leader of the future.

By totheuniformed

January 6, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

Doc CP is better than Isiah. Please, maybe he should get in the playoffs before you give him that much. He is a great player but to say he is better than a top 50 player with multiple championship is amazing.TigerWoo I stand by what I said. Nothing is wrong with Salim. The team has come up with this ankle excuse because Woodson won’t play him. Can’t you guys read between the lines from what AJ said. Woodson has lost this team. Look at their body language their interaction with this guy. Obviously, people here don’t go to these home games. I know some people don’t live in Atl. Woodson’s interaction with his team at a game is always negative from start to finish. When he gets fired I am sure the truth will come out.

By cp

January 7, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

I think Woody is a better assistant coach. He would need to have a roster full of vets to be a good head coach in my opinion. The guy just seems to rub every player the wrong way. I think starting Lo Wright at center and letting Horford come off the bench might be a good idea at this point. Za Za and Sheldon are not getting it done so why not. I just dont see what is the problem with letting Solo and Law play more minutes and learning to play at this level. At this point I dont see what the problem would be. Solo hustles and plays with heart. He might get in foul trouble and is a little small but he is out there giving it his all. Za and Sheldon are just on the court. We really do need to make a move but with this gm and ownership who knows what we can or will do.

By doc

January 7, 2008 7:14 AM | Link to this

back to “to the uninformed” which have aptly named yourself, would you say that the big O wasnt as good as isiah if he hadnt been lucky enough to have had lew alcindor drafted for that run in one fateful season? dont think so. would you say jerry west was a loser if he hadnt had the oportunity to get wilt to cover his back to get that elusive ring even when he had a superstar along side of him in elgin baylor? if the answer is no then you might be smarted that the popup you just blurted. otherwise you are as dumb as the hype machine that wants you to believe that it is the defining feature in a players portfolio. it adds credence, sure, but it cant define it. for guys like horry it defines it when they step up, for guys that have all the amunition and then fail unless it is coaching which it can be then that might be a detractor, but cp comes as close to being as good as the big O as i have seen in 50 years of following the sport and might go on to be something really special if he gets into the spotlight of a big market team that can surround him with the weapons and coach to go all the way. he wont fail i assure you.

to go further, more than one player defines what happens in the playoffs. it is a team game and coaching also plays a HUGE part in what happens once there as well as getting there as we discuss regularly and i see you had a similar refrain as my take on the aj subject. in fact as phil and auerbach showed along with daley of the pistons their first time around that might the most important factor. with larry and flip they didnt do a repeat even with essentially the same line-up or better. it is also important to remember the likes of riley, etc. of the multiple winner coach types that somehow find a way back in and to win. i imagine several of the bad boys would say that isiah brought something special in the playoffs but it was more than just him. i would too. day to day he was not the big O. no one has been and cp might just approach it in his career is ALL i was saying.

By doc

January 7, 2008 7:26 AM | Link to this

aj, as far as the hawksquawk thing, that is rubbish if this team was serious about getting to the playoffs. woody forced a square plug into a round hole. hasnt he begun to realize you dont go and fix something that aint broke? is that what aj means when he says the team is always derailed when they always stop doing things that are successful? sorry, i dont buy it and i suspect neither do you, it is silly.

By doc

January 7, 2008 7:44 AM | Link to this

before samuel slams me. A I is in that mold of greatness that might not get the hallowed ring but we will look back and marvel at his abilities and career.

By SSI Fan

January 7, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Ramon

I didn’t mean to insinuate that Longley or Wennington were the main reasons the Bulls won, but they did perform an important role on the team. They rebounded and were tall enough to play defense on the opposing teams center. The Bulls and all championship teams have rosters that are balanced and address all aspects of the game.

I believe the Hawks roster has been poorly constructed. In the past 4 years Knight has used the 6th, 16th, 2nd, 5th, and 3rd picks in the draft to select college forwards. Versatility and depth are great but only if there are not glaring weakneses in the starting lineup.

I also don’t believe the Hawks are a running team. They have a coach who has the reputation as defense minded.

I also don’t believe the present ownership group has the willingness and/or financial ability to bring a quality free agent to Atlanta. Suppose you and 6 friends own a business that is losing a lot of money every month. One of the friends who owns the largest share, 30% of the business, has been putting his money into the business every month to pay for 30% of the losses, and the other 5 are subsidizing 70% of the losses each month. The friend who has been paying 30% of the shortfall each month has a contract that says he does not have to contribute anymore. Are the other 5 going to incur a new MAJOR expense which will require an even larger monthly susidization? Especially if the 30% owner may be able to buy the other 5 out of the busines by paying them the amount the originally invested 4 years ago.

Wow that was long.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 7, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Clyde- I played with that idea alot over the summer. I really liked Sean Williams coming out of BC. I know there were character issues but the young guy is behaving so far,

I wanted us to pick up a veteran pg over the summer so that we could get Horford at #3 and S,Williams at 11. If we were’nt going to sign a point then draft Stuckey. S.Williams is a legitimat 6”10 shot blocking force, not 6’8 like Horford. It does’nt really matter at this point -but Horford will be the better player in the long run.

The losing streak is looking bad right now but, I believe we will still make that 7 or 8th seed. 15-16 this year ~~~ 9-22 last year at this point. Am I the only one here thats see’n the improvement

By I.MUS WRITE

January 7, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

DOC` do you really think Chris Paul is better than Isahia Thomas? Thomas the player or Thomas the coach?

Chris paul does’nt have any rings or play off wins so????

I agree with you though Chris Paul is a better PG than Isahia right now.If I were starting a team and had to pick one -it would be Paul.

If marvin averages 22 points a game do u think people in the Atl will forget about Paul

By Mike

January 7, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Doc I thought you were joking when you stated that CPaul is already a better player than Isaiah was. Cmon Doc lay off the Kool-Aid. Let CPaul play his game, history will tell whether he even deserve to be mention in the same breath with Isaiah and the Big O. The guy has only been in the NBA what three years. Isaiah played for back to back to back championship in the length of time CPaul has been in the NBA WTF.

First let’s let this guy make it to the playoff, than lets let this guy advance to the championship game, than lets this guy win a championship before you can mention him in the same class with Isaiah. Hey Isaiah make suck as GM and a coach, but he was one helluva basketball player, don’t get it twisted.

I watch Isaiah play many of time, and obvious you forgot his heroic against the Lakers and Phoenix just to mention a few.

By totheuniformed

January 7, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Doc I am uninformed. Yet you are the one comparing a 3rd year player who has never been in the playoffs to legends. CP is a great player. I don’t deny that at all. But please stop comparing him to the Big O or Isiah because he hasn’t done enough in his career to make that type of comparison. You are right it is a team game and if anyone is proving the hype game it is u.

By totheuniformed(doc)

January 7, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Doc I guess everyone else is uniformed too.

By Mike

January 7, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Doc I meant the Lakers and Portland.

By Astro Joe

January 7, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

I found the definition of swagger on espn.com. The Hawks say they are losing because they have lost their swagger. Well, swagger must mean Joe Johnson, because in his last 5 games, dude is shooting 35% (29/83) according to ESPN. I know the Hawks would prefer an abstract explanation for their losing streak… I mean why focus on something that can be fixed like turnovers, rebounding or defensive switching when chasing an intangible like swagger is so much easier to do? UGGGHHH!!!!

By ILL-logical

January 7, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Change can be good: 1. replace MW in the starting line up and move JSmooth to the 3; Al to the 4 and start LoWright at 5. 2.MW will sub foe JJ and provide shooting for the 2nd unit; JChill will provide energy at the 3 and SW backs up at 4/5. 3. New coach!

By Samuel

January 7, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Doc,

Is it really necessary to slam yall. AI’s game speaks for itself. Allways has, allways will.

By doc

January 7, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

my bad maybe it is my desire to see a modern day player of the ilk of the big o. if you go back you will find that you can throw a blanket over the first two and one half years of cp and isiah. clearly neither on of them are of the caliber of robertson his career avgs are of the sort that most great players dream of for one season.

BIG O Career Statistics G FG% FT% Rebs RPG APG PPG
1040 .485 .838 7804 7.5 9.5 25.7

quote from nba.com

“In 86 playoff games Robertson averaged 22.2 points, 8.9 assists and 6.7 rebounds. No one, however, may match Robertson’s overall greatness.”

the beginning of isiah’s career and most of it was while i was in a dark hole called med school and residency from 80-89. i watched the finals of the 90’s bulls/pistons series on call for a vascular fellowship in houston.

samuel, you would have been right there for the a i if i had overlooked him. shame we dont get to see much of him anymore. also like what he and karl seem to be putting together out there i denver. the reversal of fortune of the denver franchise when karl came in and the one that happened when hubie went to memphis are the type that make me wonder if these guys on the hawks are that good, is that all they need to turn it around for good?

iverson’s numbers for points come close but not in rebounds or assists to the big o. all four among the best to come along and great to watch. i look forward to seeing paul develop his own legacy as he is something very special. however, the ring is an exclamation point as marino was one of the best who never got the title in his hands and it doesnt detract from his overall greatness as it wouldnt have for manning before last year. nor will it for a i if he doesnt get his or stockton who fell short.that is the hype of the media and the fans that think it should come first when talking greatness. horry has what six, the ex-techie seven footer with what 2 to 4. sometimes it is just plain being in the right place at the right time.

By Ramon

January 7, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

I’m not going to say one way or the other who’s better. However, all of you who keeps saying that Isaiah played in 3 championship series fail to mention the fact that Isaiah played with 3 OTHER hall of fame personnel. As a player, CP CAN do more things on the court right now than Isaiah could. Just like Kobe can do things MJ never could. However, I will say Isaiah and MJ has that thing about them that cant be denied and it sets them apart.

With the nastiness CP has shown, I think its a GREAT comparison. So right now, as a PLAYER CP is better than Isaiah. I just wouldn’t choose him over Isaiah though. But Doc is right. But now, NO BODY, compares to what O did besides Magic and JKidd.

By ray

January 7, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, you’re right. And we have been saying this since before the season began. Only now are people chiming in.

Tiger Woo, it should have been obvious why Horford keeps getting into foul trouble. It should also be obvious why he’s starting, and not coming off the bench. Fact is, he’s the best we have down low…easily. Wright didn’t get it done all of last year (waste of money) and hasn’t done much this year (when he has played). Zaza is more out of joint than a dislocated shoulder. He doesn’t seem mentally capable of what we need. Same goes for Shelden, who seems to have both physical and mental incapabilities. His arms are short, he doesn’t get off the floor much, and he can’t seem to match an attitude with what looks to me like a big, strong body. Horford gives us significantly more in the post than any other player we’ve got on the roster HANDS DOWN. That’s why he’s in the starting lineup, that’s why he’ll stay in the starting lineup.

It truly amazes me how these things weren’t obvious before. Seems that some of us were saying before the season began that Horford is not a center. That he would flourish as a power forward. In the first few games (while all of us were enamored of his glass-cleaning abilities), we cautioned that he would struggle after routinely having to deal with the biggest and toughest players on opposing teams. INSTEAD OF SEEING THIS, PEOPLE WANTED TO ARGUE ABOUT WHAT REALLY DEFINES A POWER FORWARD OR CENTER. Now, Horford’s beginning to get a bit run down, and his production is slipping. He’s getting fouls because he is ALONE down there. Like I said before, how many times do we have to watch the guy wage war in the trenches by himself while other teams’ bigs continuously produce…before realizing what several bloggers are only now beginning to holler about.

The problem doesn’t lie with any of us here, though. It lies with Knight and his bosses the Spirit Group. THAT pile of idiots is the true problem. Spend the money, do the freakin’ deed!!

By doc

January 7, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

someone said the fundamental struggled when he came in, not by his numbers double double of 20 and 10 or so. however, he had the admiral for his back. we all knew horford wouldnt have anyone at his. we said it from the get go that he would add something but not a new dimension to the team; hustle, desire, skill and work ethic, yes!

By ray

January 7, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

I.Mus, CP vs. Isaiah Thomas in his youth is simply a debatable subject. What isn’t debatable is how special the guy is. He nearly single-handedly changed a franchise. He makes ALL of his teammates better, none of which are quite as talented as the teammates Isaiah had. CP is in that way what many of us feel more special than Isaiah was. And if he remains healthy (as well as his teammates), he will prove to be that.

Tiger Woo, as to the point guard thing. Mike Conley is more of a pg than Law. Both are lead guards. Law is really learning point, while Conley is learning to shoot. Conley is special, and I was one guy who wanted us to get him. But as Memphis proved, there was only one two ways to get him: draft him at number 3 (and subsequently not get Horford), or make some sort of trade with our draft picks to get him. Memphis clearly wanted Horford so they could pair him with Gasol. That was best-case scenario for them. Not being able to get him meant they had to then go for Conley, who was thought of as the most special and pure pg in the draft.

Looks like they were right. Conley is beginning to blossom. He is doing the right things and Ivaroni is pleased with him, starting him over Stoudamire and Lowery. Meanwhile, Law represented the most mature and assumed NBA-ready “lead” guard, yet second to the talent and upside of Conley. Law is in a fcked up situation known as the Atlanta Hawks organization. He is being coached by a guy who’s only head coach experience is in the exact same fcked up situation (only it was even worse at the time), managed by a GM who gets more things wrong than right (Horford and Law picks were gimme picks…and maybe not even the best we could’ve done when looking at the ENTIRE picture), and being asked to play for a team that is unbalanced and disjointed so badly, that it can barely maintain chemistry for longer than 8-10 games at a time. Oh, and throw in several owners of the entire organization who know little about basketball and this is what you have.

If you or anyone is disappointed in Law, consider the fact that he was drafted as a pg to step right in and lead a squad that supposedly already had a leader (JJ). Factor in what’s missing from this team and you can see where the difficulties lie. Law’s a good guy and will probably develop into a fine pg. Right now, he doesn’t get consistent enough minutes, doesn’t shoot enough (and missed when he does) and is trying to do what Woody wants him to do (which isn’t shoot, evidently).

Let’s look at the pg situation YET AGAIN: Billy passed on OBVIOUS pgs-Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Marcus Williams. Because of this, he was forced to find a veteran point through free agency: he got Speedy, a serious misfire. He drafted Shelden (another bad misfire) over guys like Roy and Gay, both of which are nearly single-handedly changing the outlook of their teams. The one game-changer he has drafted is not one you build your offense around (Josh Smith). Marvin Williams was drafted like he was a game-changer. He’s not. How many superstars in waiting have we missed?

Then, when the man does make a good pick, he does it for all the wrong reasons. Law: drafted to come in and save us at the point. He’s just not that kind of super-dynamic player. Some would argue he’s not a point guard.Chris Paul was and is. Horford: drafted to be the low post presence. ONCE AGAIN-he’s a power forward, not a center! You cannot continue to draft people and ask them to do what cannot be reasonably expected of them.

I believe Law will get there, but can’t be expected to be the kind of pg we need in his rookie year (if we can ever figure out what kind of pg we need). Horford does what we need of him, but must have some kind of effective center in there to help out…or he will continue to struggle and not reach his full potential (which obviously is enormous…at the right position). Even the great Tim Duncan doesn’t go it alone. As him how things would be if there were no Oberto or Elson in there to help.

The absolute worst of all this as Doc has mentioned, is the ownership group. Who can continue to blame Woody for what he has to deal with? Who can continue to blame Billy Knight for staying on his wretched path/course? I’d keep making bonehead plays too, if my boss continued to pay me good money to do so. Everybody makes mistakes. But consistent ones? No, ownership is the problem. Always has been. Idiots hiring idiots. The only one I really think is not an idiot is Mike Woodson. In most cases, he’s learning and just doesn’t always know what to do. But then, even the most experienced coach makes mistakes. Happens all the time.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 7, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Ramon- What can Kobe do that Jordan couldnt???? Amongst the two PG’s Paul would definitely be the choice…. But he has to win in the playoffs and atleast 1 title. Until either of those happen he will just be a really good player

By doc

January 7, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

well put ray. nice job, well maybe not nice, but accurate and articulate especially about paul. paul started with nothing around him and was the reason some came.

By Ramon

January 7, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Kobe is a better shooter than Jordan was. He’s also a better passer than Jordan.

By I.MUS WRITE

January 7, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Good points Ray… now im a little steamed looking at the players BK passed on -GAY,ROY,PAUL-

These guyz are really game changers, and future All stars.

DAM IT -Even if we needed a banger in 06, you just dont pass up on certain guyz. I knew Shellz was not the answer- He played against alot smaller weaker guys in college.

I also thought that Reddick and Morrison was overated- what do you know i was right. When Duke played LSU for the Title I watched how JJ couldnt get his shot off over a 6’5 guy ….. I mean he was locked down the whole game- I just kept thinking how is he going to shoot over the Kobe’s,J Rich’s and Tmac’s of the world- Gay or Roy over Sheldon would have been great-never mind the position- who do we have thats better that RoY or Gay right now? JJ-maybe………….DAM IT BK

By ray

January 7, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Doc. And you’re right, it wasn’t nice. I’m frustrated. I cannot even imagine the frustration that the players and coaches are feeling right now. Well, if I made a comparison to the frustrations of my job, I suppose I can understand a bit. They have to be feeling bad. And I know how hard it is to do my best when I know that my superiors are either not doing theirs, or aren’t capable of it. Of course, in my line of work, you have to pick your battles carefully…voicing such concerns doesn’t get you traded or your boss fired. It gets YOU fired.

By Ramon

January 7, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

So to be a GREAT player you have to win a championship? So John Stockton wasn’t a great player, neither was Karl Malone? What happens if you just play in the era when ANOTHER great TEAM is there and just dominating? So people think Derek Fisher is better than CP? I mean Fisher does have 3 rings, and have won in the playoffs many times.

Is CP great yet, no of course not. But to average 20 pts, 10 asst, and 3 steals a game is CRAZY!! What more can he do as a PG? At THIS point in his career, he may be the best 3rd year point guard EVER besides Magic. But on each of Magics championships and Isaiah’s famous run, name one season when they didn’t have a FELLOW Hall of Fame teammate? To dominate for years, it takes TWO great players, not one.

By doc

January 7, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

ok, i am a history buff not posing as a know it all but the outcry got me interested in the legacy of isiah. he joined the team two years after their nadir of 16 wins as a no. 2 pick in the draft. it was in his fourth year of his career that he played on a team that won a first round (5 games then). after being shut out in his fifth year without a playoff series win it was not until his sixth season that he made it to the finals and got stuffed by the celts. the next three years are what defines him and the bad boys. so it was in his seventh year he finally got the ring.

it takes time. question is do the hawks have the talent to keep to do it in the next four? the direct observation of this debate is that chris paul has a few years left to define himself in the mold of isiah or better. wouldnt even his detractors would be willing to give him that in the true context of history?

now where is the second coming of the BIG O? :-))

By I.MUS WRITE

January 7, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Ramon-How old are you? Itz obvious that you did’nt see Jordan play much.

Passing and Shooting?? Come on!! I mean u do know that Jordan was in the league before he played in D.C.

You can be really good to great if you dont win a championship, but you wont be in that top tier-Bird Magic Jordan etc… Those players fall in the Barkley,Ewing,Malone category.

You really cant compare players until after they have stopped playing-Chris Paul is my guy but he has’nt done anything yet-lets debate this in 2018 when he’s ready to hang’em up.

By doc

January 7, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

yeah ramon some more really nice examples. great individuals or great teams are what make it interesting but not all are in the right time period to carry it off with the ring. i dont think less of them only more for their opponents. bills not great, not, sure have a few greats in the hall just not their destiny. st louis cards 2006 great but win the series? no, the 2004 group? yes, but they werent the team that won it all that year. mavs not among the elite or dwayne out of this world in 2006 and the refs right there with him. ramon the list is long.

it probably really usually takes three to do it more than once or one shaq and one kobe. pistons with three, boston had at least their three with bird, lakers with magic, too. that list is long, maybe san antone now with their three. jordan and pippen where two in their time. jordan and shaq unique when it comes to championships and teammates around them. kobe was still rising and not in his prime when they did their thing.

By ray

January 7, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

I.Mus, hey you even beat Michael Jordan on that one. You were dead on about the limits of guys like Reddick and Morrison. Even MJ thought Morrison would be better and provide the scoring the Bobcats would need.

The difference is, they got smart and traded for Richardson to get what Morrison couldn’t bring. And while Morrison’s career is yet young…he’ll not be a Larry Bird EVER. Oddly enough, they’ve already got a tougher and steadier shooter in the underrated Matt Carroll. I hope Morrison has more to show us…if he can get past injuries and what not. If not, he’s another forgotten lottery pick. There’s lots of those over the years…

Doc, you’ve already seen the latest version of the big “O”. His name is Jason Kidd. Nobody else has been hitting the triple doubles with points, rebounds, and assists like Kidd has. Unfortunately, his career is on the decline and right now I am not seeing anyone else who gets the same kinds of stats he does. Even then, is he comparable to Robertson? Depends on what your criteria is, and that still leaves it up for one juicy debate topic. As for the next “Big O” type…your guess is as good as mine…Or probably better than mine.

By doc

January 7, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

kidd is pretty awesome and i havent been able to enjoy him as much as others due to where he ended up. he doesnt have the 25 points per that o had but has the dimes and bounds that o had or maybe better. most dont realize how scrappy oscar was under the boards as a little guy. they didnt keep blocks or steals in his day so he cant be ranked there. still fun to watch and was on everyone screen even in college as he led cinncy out of oblivion.

By doc

January 7, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

look i may be overstating it a bit here but from my perspective oscar could have been the equivalent to a jackie robinson in basketball. he was the first along with russell and wilt to begin to change the game of basketball during a very difficult time. i have more respect for him as a man maybe than as a player in how he handled himself both on and off the court.

they changed the game from a two hand set shot into the remarkable game of today. it exploded from there. yes, flash maybe but certainly i learned the two hander before we were allowed to use one hand to shoot.

By The Flash

January 7, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Astro I told you who the second rounder was, it was Big Baby, and look who’s lookin good. Also told you about Roy.

Doc, stop with the judges already. The Spirit’s only constraint is themselves. The only thing that they could agree upon was getting rid of Belkin. Apart from that, what brings them together?

People of disparate interests, all wanting the microphone, and none having the dough or the willingness to put it where the mouth’s were, for the good of the franchise we are giving away the ranch, yadayadayada. Stop bringing up straw men.

The problem with the inside game here is not the players; it is the coach, who is BK’s guy, and the Spirit can not even agree on whether they think BK knows what he’s talking about or not. As long as he’s not telling them that they have to spend money, they’re fine with his advice.

You want to improve this team, you don’t need to shell out huge money. What you need to do is get rid of the assistants and bring in the man. Larry is sitting there on Long Island just waiting to get back into it; if he could get Ben Wallace involved productively in Detroit’s offense, he’d make ZaZa and Shelden productive here.

Hire Larry!

By Mike

January 7, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

All right guys Dogg me, ridicule me but I’m calling a win over the Cavs to get us back on the winning track. It want be easy, and LBJames will get his, but we will win the game. I think we take advantage of this home stretch to get back above .500. I gotta support my boys even if it means eaten a little crow.

GO HAWK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Astro Joe

January 7, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Flash, good to read you again. Hope that you enjoyed the holidays and all the glitz and glamour of the DC area during that time of year.

Big Baby is coming along nicely. I’d imagine that KG has to be a perfect “big brother” for Big Baby. Heck, he’d be the perfect big brother for any young player.

I’m exhausted discussing Roy. Very nice player who is excelling in his natural position while provided the freedom to be his team’s primary player. I believe that many players are the product of their environment (I know, radical thought), that’s why I find it difficult to simply believe that what we see from a player in one set of conditions would be comparable to what we would get if same player wore a Hawks uni. Shelden with Eddie Jordan or Phil Jackson would be far better than he is with Woody. Same with Zaza if he were coached by Utah’s Sloan or Pop with the Spurs. Avery Johnson would be terrific for Salim.

But before we all anoint Roy as the next big thing, let’s make sure that he won’t be missing 25 games every season (potentially joining Aldridge and Oden in the crowded rehab room).

By Ramon

January 7, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

I.Mus I challenge you to find where I once said CP was better than Isaiah. I said at this POINT in his career he’s better than what Isaiah was. The differential in team victories and his statistics prove that along. Remember before him it wasn’t as if they had a sorry PG, they had Baron Davis. Yet, CP is doing more with them now than Baron was able to.

You’re saying Birds, MJs, Magics, and Isaiahs, but they ALL had Hall of Fame help. Theres no comparison. One player can not dominate a dynasty without another great player. Duncan even had Robinson, and before its over Parker will go down as a great playoff player. Rather you’re great or not should be determined by how you dominate your position and affect your team’s wins and losses. Even the great Shaq, and Kobe, alone, couldn’t be a great TEAM in the Pistons. So to say, Drexler wasn’t great BEFORE going to Houston would truly make you look foolish.

As far as Jordan, I was a die hard Jordan and Pippen fan for life. But at the same time, Jordan could not shoot from the perimeter as good as Kobe can. I grew up wanting to play just like Pippen, so I watched MANY of the Bulls games (thanks to WGN). Jordan never shot great from the perimeter. And as far as passing, if you even begin to think Jordan was a better passer, you obviously don’t know MJ. The man (although I love him) didn’t even start passing until 1990.

By Ramon

January 7, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

IMUS, to be honest, JKidd IS in that class of top tier all time. Where has he played that was a winner BEFORE he came there?? And where has he played that

By Ramon

January 7, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

IMUS sorry but JKidd falls in that top tier of great ones. Where has JKidd went that was winning before he got there? And where has JKidd went that didn’t start winning when he got there? JKidd is in the top 50 greatest ever, hands down. But guess what. JKidd doesn’t have a ring.

By Ramon

January 7, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

By the way, the Hawks have been impressive to me. Because except for the Pacers game, all of their losses have put them in position to win at the end although they were playing terrible. The Hawks are COMPETITIVE period. There have been nights when many teams went through these same problems although they were good teams.

By Samuel

January 7, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

Did anybody catch the Clemens interview? This could get interesting.

CP vs Isiah is a good one. I will say that CP has improved his game tremendously from last year. He scores a lot better and is just so confident right now.

I’m tired of comparing players of different eras, it’s a never ending debate.

I also promised not to talk bad about the Hawks anymore this season. They will finish in about the 10th or 11th spot which is an improvement.

I’m gettn drubbed in the Fantasy League this year. I still got hope.

Yall Ready for a Black President?

By The Flash

January 7, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Wow, Astro, that was seriously sharp. I mean seriosly.

As for all this debate about great players, one thing not to be forgotten is that one way or the other, usually it was a great coach, everybody that they were playing with was on the same page, and the page was a good one.

Kobe has shown a serious character flaw. The pundits are all saying that he has stopped the trade talks because he sees that Bynum has made progress. He has stopped the trade talks because the other Lakers, including Bynum, showed that they could get it done without him.

The Triangle is an awesome system codified but not created by Tex Winter; it incorporates the best that basketball’s golden age, the 50s, had to offer. Phil is an empowerer, and gets players to want to make eachother better and the whole bigger than the some of its parts.

Kobe’s narcissism was out of control and he refused to be part of any system; I believe that he could not see the value of anything outside of himself. Seeing the Lakers function extremely well without him has tempered his disorder.

Zeke had Chuck and Magic had Pat. You also need a supporting cast.

Me, I think that this team here has as good a chance as any in the next few years to produce a great winner. They will need another rock star and they will need that world class off court leader. I also think that, unlike the teams that MJ, Bird, and Magic had, they will also need a world class teacher of the game—someone who will lead a team collectively to up their basketball IQs and skills to compliment one another.

There is only one guy I know who fits that bill. He is sitting in SouthHampton Long Island.

By doc

January 7, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

samuel any thoughts on clemens? i wonder if most of the timing of this is to make sure he is tongue tied when he comes to congress next week you konow because of pending legislation i cant speak on the matter. sounds better than taking the fifth.

funny if he had shown up with a lie detector test in hand saying he was straight i would accept it if it was credible in origin instead he answers what would it help?

funny how he responded to the question of how perpetrators should be handled when he said there bodies toll from the drugs would be enough punishment. a competitor clean might be a bit more adamant that he guys juicing be banned from baseball if not from the hall. more along the lines of what smoltz has said softly or shilling has said loudly from the get go in front of congress.

samuel also sorry to hear of your fate in the fantasy world, knowing your competitiveness i aint betting against you just playing rope a dope or the shaq attack. heh heh

By totheuniformed

January 7, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

How can you compare the Big O to guys that are 6 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter? Compare Oscar to Elgin, Magic and JKidd. If you want small pgs you have Cousy, Tiny, Isiah, Stockton. I do agree CP will be in that list but not yet. I don’t like to jump on this bandwagon but if CP played here the Hawks would of made the playoffs last year. This is all hypothetical because they wouldn’t of had the third pick in the draft. Sorry, to bring it up but look at Shelden’s draft. There are multiple players in the second round better than Shelden.

By Samuel

January 7, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

I don’t know this year doc. It don’t look good. I aint giving up on my boys yet but they need to step it up,seriously.

By Ramon

January 7, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

Sorry but if CP played for the Hawks he would NOT be as good as he is now. Woody would’ve never given him the ball. CP went through a lot of growing his rookie season, the same thing Law is going through. So theres no way he would be this good in Atlanta with Woody. You have to remember Byron Scott WAS schooled by Magic and others. Woody was schooled by Larry Brown and Knight (i.e. no offense).

And for the record, I’m not saying Kobe is better than MJ, NOT EVEN CLOSE. I only said Kobe does some things better than MJ. But MJ has the IT factor more than any one else I’ve seen play the game.

By doc

January 7, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

add bill russell to the list of “it” factor, maybe just before your time. i wish it was before my time as well, the year he was the player-coach and still won the championship was simply amazing as the celt dynasty was over, dead, gone and buried until bird arrived.