Hawks

By doc

December 17, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

gee, i think several just said that in our last few blogs realizing no big or point is coming our way. it is why roy would have been so much more an asset than sheldon or possibly a stuckey instead of acie though stuckey has been injured and hasnt been able to show what he has.

it is also a refrain from many to give the ball to salim and allow him to play instead of stressing defense to him, giving him a short leash and allow the kid to develop some confidence. he is as close as it comes for this team and it is why we cant do what some other speed teams do night in and night out. someone has to be able to pull up and shoot the ball to keep other teams from collapsing to the basket with each trip down the court.

By new jersey faithful

December 17, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

Where is Law? How long will he be out with his knee injury. The Hawks need him out there learning the NBA game. We NEED to beat Utah!!!!!!

By Steve T

December 17, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

I am liking what I am seeing in the hawks. They are playing a team that we know will go very deep in the play offs. The hawks are hanging in there even when they are short handed. This hawks aer fighting and fighting hard.

By Coach Randolph

December 17, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this

Whats the deal with Woody and Herb Brown?? Woodson is so rude to him now it’s almost sad to watch during time outs Brown saids something to woods and it looks like Woody is going to kick his tail. What up with that??

By new jersey faithful

December 17, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

And I think these games that the Hawks are down players on the bench are easier on Woodson, because he has less sub choices to mismanage and screw up. If he only has 9 guys to play, it makes his choices easier, cause he has trouble with a full squad when it comes to subbing.

By Sekou K. Smith

December 17, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

Acie’s injury is day-to-day, like everyone’s but Speedy’s.

If you’re not watching this game you’re missing one of the better 48-minute stretches of the season.

104-98 Hawks with 4:25 to play and Joe Johnson is putting in work on a busted shoe.

By doc

December 17, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this

beautiful game by aj tonight.

By Coach Randolph

December 17, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

can anybody answer my question?

By new jersey faithful

December 17, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this

what is the deal with speedy? He’s been hurt during his whole career here in Atlanta…WTF!!

By A Thinking Fan

December 17, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this

Too many missed FTs down the stretch and shooting fouls…

By Tiger Woo

December 17, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

Nice win Hawks !! …

Big win against Utah !!

Back to .500

By Steve T

December 17, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

How do you like the hawks now? They can beat everyone but the pistons.

By new jersey faithful

December 17, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

sorry coach…not me! but thanks Sekou for anwsering mine. I hope Law is back asap at full strength

By mykhalc

December 17, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

good win!!!! playin’ like a TEAM!!!!!!

AJ is steppin’ up, no doubt!!!

By kwooden1

December 17, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this

HAWKS WIN! HAWKS WIN! I can’t say enough about this win! I know Utah is missing Okur and they’ve been struggling, but the way the Hawks kept coming back. And what a game by AJ. Mario West played great for the team and I have to give Woodson some credit for putting Mario in early. The Hawks withstood an All-Star game from Boozer and didn’t let Deron Williams between them. Hats off to the Hawks!! Definitely enjoy this one.

GO HAWKS!!

By Steve T

December 17, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

People the hawks are winning and we want to worry about why this player is hurt. Injuries are a part of pro sports. If anything, the injury bugs does two thing: 1) it shows how much better this team is than in the past. 2) It help makes this team even better.

When the hawks are finally at full strenght, they will be able to make a strong run at the play-offs and if they make it, then just make good deep.

People in atlnata, CHEER UP! CHEER UP! CHEER UP!

By Ken Strickland

December 17, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

I have a question. What would you rather have, AJohnson or that 2nd rd pick we used to get him? Like I said in an earlier post, Zaza is most valuable when he shoots his jump shot, like he did tonight. Hats of to MWilliams. He gave Karilinko more than he could handle on both ends of the court.

Woodson did an outstanding coaching job tonight. In fact, he’s done an excellent job since the players only meeting. How many of you would have inserted LWright in the gm to play Howard? How many of you would have started him against Carolina with Zaza available? Woodson has had to coach his team through mounting injuries and suspensions to key players. Just imagine, we beat Utah with Boozer playing his best and with us without 5 of our 12 active roster players.

GOOD WIN TONIGHT MY HIGH FLYING HAWKS!!!!!!

By Hawks fan

December 17, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

Coach Randolph, They had a BIG falling out at the end of last season. Herb Brown and Larry Drew were both going to leave but Knight steped in and made a rule that no hawks coach could leave while under contract. If you notice Larry Drew during timeouts he does not even say anything. And Woods thought Brown was gone is the reason why they hired the new assit coach.

By A Thinking Fan

December 17, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

AH scored 8 straight points in one stretch, kid is SOLID for this team…

GOOD WIN, but way too many missed FTs down the stretch and shooting fouls…

By Coach Randolph

December 17, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

I knew it was something i like herb alot and think he is a great coach.

By travis

December 17, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this

1/4 way through the season and the Hawks are 7th and Clev is 8th. That means that the Hawks would have to play Orlando, which is 2nd and Celtics would play Clev. I know that we beat Orlando once already, but can we get 4 wins in the best of 7? When we click on all cylinders, I think that we can, but when we play like we did against Minnesota and Seattle I don’t think we can

By TJ

December 17, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

So…the Hawks win. With eight guys! And gave up 39 to Boozer. Impressive, but not unexpected. The Hawks need to maintain this play, since they’re earning the respect of the league. Somehow, ESPN still doesn’t believe it when the Hawks beat a team like the Magic last week; they just couldn’t seem to give the Birds any love.

JSmoove could’ve had like ten blocks if they weren’t called as “fouls”. Dude was all over the place, as always. As was Big Al, as was AJ. I know Acie’s on the sidelines taking notes and such. Between AJ, Lue, and Speedy, AJ’s probably the best person for Acie to learn from. Size and intelligence plus a jumpshot are AJ’s good traits. Sounds like Acie to me too, he just has to learn. Plus, you gotta love how AJ pushed the fast breaks this game. Folks say he’s playing over his head right now; he just hasn’t gotten consistent playing time over his journeyman-like career. I think he’s earned Woody’s trust.

Sekou, I agree that we could use another shooter to stretch the offense. It would also add another aspect to a fast break, a spot up 3. Salim is aching for Woody’s trust in him. I think Woody will get there..Salim just needs to make them.

Hopefully, we can get Chils and Acie back against the Heat. Somebody has to spell relief for AJ, he’s been running a lot lately.

Go Hawks! I expect a victory….

By terrell barron

December 17, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Yeah Ken, I’ve been trying to get Ray to show some love to BK for making that move. That 2nd rdr would probably be at the end of the bench right now. AJ is contributing THIS YEAR, and considering BK and Woody’s job status at the end of last year, its a move he had to make.

By doc

December 17, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

yeah and aj seemed to have to walk out on his coach to get the opportunity. he is showing some real guts and that he is a pro. now if he could give one of his nads to lorenzen we might have another vet baller on the team instead of chandeliers for ears.

By scott

December 17, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

Ken Strickland, since you are singing the praises of Knightmare for the Anthony Johnson deal, you might as well call him out on a far more important screwup last year - taking that worthless Shelden Williams with the FIFTH pick in the entire draft!!! Shelden is HORRIBLE, no feet, no hands, no ups, no quicks, no defense, no NOTHING. He is absolutely terrible, and we all knew that going into the draft, yet that idiot still took him. I will NEVER forgive him for that, much less signing Speedy, passing on the points, passing on Deng and Igudala, letting go of Pryzbilla for free, etc. He has crippled us, and then had a chance to sign DJ Mbenga for $680K and passed on him!! A legit and big 7’1” center who IS a defensive force in the paint and Knightmare didn’t even try to sign him. What a joke.

By Scott

December 17, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Ken Strickland, since you are singing the praises of Knightmare for the Anthony Johnson deal, you might as well call him out on a far more important screwup last year - taking that worthless Shelden Williams with the FIFTH pick in the entire draft!!! Shelden is HORRIBLE, no feet, no hands, no ups, no quicks, no defense, no NOTHING. He is absolutely terrible, and we all knew that going into the draft, yet that idiot still took him. I will NEVER forgive him for that, much less signing Speedy, passing on the points, passing on Deng and Igudala, letting go of Pryzbilla for free, etc. He has crippled us, and then had a chance to sign DJ Mbenga for $680K and passed on him!! A legit and big 7’1” center who IS a defensive force in the paint and Knightmare didn’t even try to sign him. What a joke.

By Ryder

December 17, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Whoever thought that Anthony Johnson would outplay Deron Williams, who is considered the best young PG in the game? This win was not expected as Atlanta has had problems playing teams who are disciplined. It’s just that Utah couldn’t convert their free throws. Boozer was dominant, but I loved how Atlanta was able to get everyone involved. With only 9 players it’s important to have a good shooting night and the Hawks did.

To continue at this pace this team MUST get Lue/Acie and Chills back. I don’t agree that they need another shooter, they have one in Salim. As TJ said, he’ll need to make his shots when he’s called upon.

This team is going to have to keep it going on offense until they get their pieces in order. They do have two winnable games against Miami and Washington upcoming so we’ll see if they can get everyone healthy.

Oh, I heard that Charley Rosen of foxsports.com gave Woodson some love by giving him an A when grading the coaches! I admit i’m not a Woody apologist, but maybe he knows something we don’t.

By Juan

December 17, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

As far as Speedy is concerned, I heard he came down with the sniffles, and that he is going to be out — at a minimum — of four months. I mean, c’mon, how can we expect him to play when he is experiencing some mild discomfort? My six-month-old Maltese is tougher than Speedy “The Fraud” Claxton.

By Juan

December 17, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I tend to agree with the assessment of you scout friend. I like Salim, to an extent, but I do think he is ill-suited to play in a half-court game. He is so prone to taking poor shots that usually result in transition opportunities for our opponents. I would like to see a guy like Delonte West or Gerald Green, who is barely playing in Minnesota. I am sure the asking price for Green isn’t that high, at the moment.

By reese

December 17, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

First of all, great win hawks. The good: Double doubles by Josh Smith and AJ. 5 players in double figures scoring. Although, Josh Smith was the only player to place entries in every positive offensive/defensive category, Anthony Johnson’s 14 assists does stand out. I liked the challenging of shots by horford, jsmith and mario west. I like the aggressiveness of the entire team and not backing down to Utah’s roughness. 50 free throws are a lot.

The bad: missed free throws down the stretch. Marvin playing 47 minutes and only taking 8 shots. Marvin’s execution on fast breaks when he has the ball in the middle. Don’t stop trying but keep the ball a little bit longer in the middle. Marvin, watch/learn the way the Mario West hustles to loose balls, chases down other team’s players who are fast breaking and challenges their shot and rotates on defense to help his teammates.

By Ramon

December 18, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this

Scott, how do you know if BK tried to sign that player or not? Do you know EVERY deal that gets put on the table for every GM? What GM has had over 85% success rate in the draft? When he signed Speedy, who else was there to sign at the moment? What other PG that summer would’ve been better than what Speedy was with the Hornets?

Did he mess up with Sheldon? He seen that the biggest problem of the team was inside defense, and Sheldon was the best statistical defensive big in the draft. Steve Nash is a great PG, but they get beat nightly when they don’t have any defense in the paint. So he took a chance to address that issue and missed. Sheldon may not be the best player in the draft, but when given minutes he can produce quality points and rebounds.

If you don’t like a man, just simply say so. But if you think BK has missed more than he’s hit, then you OBVIOUSLY don’t remember the team he was given when he came. BK has put together a roster that can play with most teams in the league. The Suns signed Jalen Rose, who did nothing, I don’t see anyone trashing their old GM. The Rockets signed Bonzi Wells AND Stromile Swift, and didn’t get anything from those players, but their GM isn’t getting trashed.

While you’re saying so much, do you realize it could very well be Wright who’s helping Horford the most, including the coaches. Wright may not be able to do a lot of the things he once did, but sometime veteran leadership is deeper than just playing time. Everyone says they could’ve done a better job, but most would have given Eddie Curry, Dalembert, and Dampier a max contract. Others would have drafted Conley to man the PG position. Some would have traded BOTH picks for Amare, who is having a terrible season now.

I’m not saying BK is a great GM. However, he’s better than half of the GM’s in the league. He drafted Marvin over Paul/Williams just like every draft guru said he should have. Remember also, when Paul came out, his character was in question by most GMs in the league. Thats another huge reason why he wasn’t drafted #2. When he purposely punched an opponent in ACC play, that through up many red flags.

And if one person wish that the Hawks were the team paying Diaw an expensive contract to do what he’s doing now, I dare you to admit it publicly. The Suns would take almost any trade to get rid of his contract now.

Also if you remember, no one was suprised when BK took Childress, because Josh was a good player. In fact, Deng doesn’t even play for the team who drafted him. And the other AI shoots worse from the perimeter than Smooth.

By BA

December 18, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this

Why can’t we get the Hawk’s games on a radio station we can hear at night? I wouldn’t worry too much about Speedy, looks like he wouldn’t start over our boy A.J.! I say give Sheldon one more year before we throw him under the bus. Look at how much Marvin has improved in his third year. These young players are gelling together, and I for one am excited.

By BA

December 18, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this

Why can’t we get the Hawk’s games on a radio station we can hear at night? I wouldn’t worry too much about Speedy, looks like he wouldn’t start over our boy A.J.! I say give Sheldon one more year before we throw him under the bus. Look at how much Marvin has improved in his third year. These young players are gelling together, and I for one am excited.

By BA

December 18, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this

Great post, Ramon. And we should give Woody a little more credit,too. He’s got these guys playing the best defense I’ve seen in Atlanta in a long time.

By BA

December 18, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this

Great post, Ramon. And we should give Woody a little more credit,too. He’s got these guys playing the best defense I’ve seen in Atlanta in a long time.

By BA

December 18, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this

Great post, Ramon. And we should give Woody a little more credit,too. He’s got these guys playing the best defense I’ve seen in Atlanta in a long time.

By Ken Strickland

December 18, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this

From what I’ve been reading it seems Hawk fans come in two flavors. (1)Those that support the team, want the best for the team, and supports the players that we win and lose with. (2)Those that can’t accept and/or support the players we have on the roster. They are forever haunted by past drafts and the players we shoulda coulda drafted. They seem to be preoccupied with the concept of fantasy basketball. Some of them seem to have difficulty realizing BK is the Hawks GM and not them.

I keep reading about how we shoulda coulda drafted Roy, or Williams or Paul. Then there are those obsessed with the drafting of Shelden. The truth is, Shelden wasn’t my choice either, but he was BK’s, and that’s all that matters, or should matter. You act like every other GM in the league is perfect, that they don’t make mistakes. In the history of the NBA, no other GM or HC has had to operate with an ownership problem like ours.

SCOTT, you won’t allow yourself to see the forest for the trees. Yes, BK has made moves that backfired, like signing Speedy and LWright(although he has been a major factor in our 2 previous wins). But those moves haven’t damaged this team. We are playing hard, progressing, maturing, coming together as a team, overcoming injuries and adversity and learning how to win. That’s because of the positive moves and draft picks he’s made.

BK has put together a very talented roster that is evolving into a talented and maturing team. Get your head(s) out of the past. Some of you seem upset that the Hawks are starting to do well without the players you think we coulda shoulda drafted. Fantasy league basketball was established for fans who want to play GM and construct teams comprised of their favorite players. This is reality basketball.

By new jersey faithful

December 18, 2007 12:53 AM | Link to this

Damn Ramon…way to get after Scott! I agree with you Ramon, and just like every draft in every sport, there are very few, if any 100% guarantee picks. Alot of picks never pan out, and alot of late picks or undrafted guys turn out to be better than the top ten picks. And Sheldon can still produce, its only his second season for gods sake!!

By MannyT

December 18, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

reese don’t hate on Marvin tonight. He did attack the basket. Look at the free throws—he got to the line and made them.

I had a very good feeling about this game when I looked at the scoreboard halfway through the 3rd period. All of our starters were on the floor and the lowest scorer was JJ.

Credit to Woody for making things work with the short bench, HOWEVER I cannot sing the praises of putting Mario in early tonight. JJ had 2 fouls in a few minutes and he is the only healthy guard on the bench. I can get the guy in the commercial staying at the Holiday Inn to make that move correctly.

I do love the way that AJ is playing.

By MannyT

December 18, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this

Ken Reality used to be a friend of mine.

PREACH

from a flavor (1) fan.

We are on track for a 41 win (or better) season with the squad we have.

By mavid

December 18, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this

Anthony Freakin Johnson!!!

Thats all that needs to be said.

Wow, what a game.

By Clyde

December 18, 2007 1:41 AM | Link to this

Again I have stress how well the Hawks are playing without Tyron Lue. AJ pushes the ball up the floor and knows how the open man. Everyone got involved and no one was standing around. Good win against a good team. I still wan’t to see some minutes for Solomon Jones.

I still can’t get over Ken Strickland. One minute FIRE BILLY AND WOODY then the next WOODY FOR COACH OF THE YEAR. Just like the wind tossed to and fro.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By BosnianBaller

December 18, 2007 1:45 AM | Link to this

AJ great game.West played great too.he gave them a lift when jj went to da bench in da 1st

By tb

December 18, 2007 2:09 AM | Link to this

AJ gets game ball. The Hawks are starting to play as a team.

Think the players meeting had anything to do with getting along with each other and the coach?

Put strong, talented, young player together with some coaching and you get the current Hawks.

I think most of us predicted this kind of season (38-42 wins), sure is nice to see it playing out. No reason for them to not get even better.

By JohnGTfan

December 18, 2007 5:57 AM | Link to this

Great win by Atlanta…they’re continuing to impress…especially short-handed. It says alot about the growth of this team and the…never thought I’d say this….the coaches preparation of the team. They must really be going at it in practices. I just wish I COULD WATCH A GAME!!!

Anyway….Sekou or anyone in the DC area…a group of us will be at the game vs. the Wiz on Friday night cheering loud and holding it down for the ATL fans!!!!! Can’t wait to see this team live baby!!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!

By fritzenheimer

December 18, 2007 7:01 AM | Link to this

Coach Randolph, They had a BIG falling out at the end of last season. Herb Brown and Larry Drew were both going to leave but Knight steped in and made a rule that no hawks coach could leave while under contract.COACH RANDOLPH* the HAWK FAN has his facts completely wrong. Herb wasn’t leaving with Drew. It was Fizdale. There is something else going on with Woody and Herb and it isn’t good. It is sad because Woody is clueless as a coach and communicator and should be the one banished. Someone said it here before - the only reason the Hawks are looking good lately is because they have a thin bench and Woody can’t screw things up with his incomprehensible game management. Coach Brown is a great professional and a great basketball mind and it is testament to either Woody’s ineptitude or his insecurity that he has distanced himself from Coach Brown.

By doc

December 18, 2007 7:06 AM | Link to this

ken sometimes you have to call them like you see them. blind faith doesnt always work. dont go there but are you all about love for rich mckay over on the falcon blog? :-))

mckay’s hire and fire and draft success are running pretty bad since he fired dungy, hired a guy he couldnt get along with or was over voted by management on that one and got himself run out. he has now hired two guys who wished publicly to go back to coachng college football. one got fired for saying so the other was begged to stay and left them with egg on thir faces. btw. real firm insider sources told me that it had been confirmed three weeks before petrino left that he had his name out for ALL the college openings. yes mckay is making bk look very good among the gm of the atlanta scene though he talks a bigger story than bk.

we dont all agree of course we are all just trying to keep it real just like you but adolescent attitudes about always dying with your team doesnt work for me. i have spoken of the virtues of woody and bk to be called a pollyanna and have been demeaned by straightforward criticism by some but like cosell, i just calls em likes i sees em.

i can see last night was one of the best victories in the hawks franchise in 10 years. i also am beginning to see that j smash is beginning to walk the talk which is huge. i also KNOW that the summer of 2006 was a very bad one for bk in who he got to fill the holes, say what the team would look like now if he had followed the concensus and gotten roy and followed with the second rounder that fell to utah. yeah the blind squirrel would have looked pretty good and be a heads up pick for gm of the year. we would have still probably had a shot at the likes of horford and acie along with some youthful size and range.

anyway HUGE win to get the team back to .500. looks like portland is on a very serious run and making a play to overcome some folks in the standings in the tough west. fun to see some of these young guns come on. again a really good basketball game last night that included good d and good o without crawling to a 90 to 89 score. funny how we can say some good d after the other team goes for over 110. yes woody, it is possible because it is measured in stops not total points.

namaste’

By doc

December 18, 2007 7:26 AM | Link to this

fritz by my recollection it was one fitzdale along with drew that wanted out, not brown. that info was from the radio talk and from the paper article over the summer. when they were initially allowed to talk to other teams and then when they were offered the jobs they were denied out of the contracts. fitzdale was offered something in the cleveland organization. it was another one of those major faux pas’ of this organization but give cred to drew and fitzdale, they have been real pros and silently go on. i think we will have to wait on a different version of why brown was demoted to a lesser role and one away from the bench. to my recollection brown was never part of that first discussion regarding contracts except quietly moved from the bench to support staff without any reason given.

my spin is it is probably because woody has more confidence in what the other guys say that they kept from leaving than animosity for brown or brown stepping out of what his role is to be now; after all if you arent going to listen to drew and the other guy then why did you keep them and wasnt drew made assis head coach?

we dont get to see the hawks bench often up close on tv but last night it seemed that in one shot drew was having as much to say during a timeout as woody was. hopefully drew can continue to speak his mind as the outcome was good last night.

By Dap

December 18, 2007 7:56 AM | Link to this

Great win. We do need for something other than letting JJ dominate the ball late in close games. He is great but the whole offense becomes stagnant. JJ should occasionally look to dish off to an open teammate instead of simply throwing up a three.

We are improving.

By Willie Coyote

December 18, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

I would love for Salim to be that shooter but he’s been hurt off and on and has been way too streaky this year. These guys also need some people who aren’t going to be hurt all the time. I like Chills but he has gotten hurt every year…that kind of worries me about if this is something that will plague him for the rest of his career. Acie and Salim will be back; Speedy = no comment; Lue doesn’t heal; Wright…who knows.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 8:23 AM | Link to this

The guy that you all thought that BK should have selected 2nd overall, just got out played by a journeyman backup that we got for a second rounder, while Marvin dropped in 20 with 5 rebounds. And as far as Deng and Iggy are concerned, there isnt enough balls on the floor to keep either one of them happy. A healthy Chills off the bench is what this team needs, not a trigger happy Iggy or a no defense playing Deng. Yall need to get over past draft picks. And now you’re all crying for Roy, but when Acie was drafted everyone said we needed a TRUE POINT GUARD. B. Roy is a combo guard, if you didnt already know.

By GMoney

December 18, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

Sounds like a great game last nigh. I am in Arkansas so I wasn’t able to see it. I, like Ken am one of those flavor (1) guys. However, I must also admit that I wanted to ask for one of Clyde’s t-shirts when BK drafted Shelden, the only real bust so far on this team (injuries aside).

The case will have to be made for GM and maybe coach of the year if these guys make the playoffs. With the second lowest payroll in all of professional basketball, these guys are getting the most out of their players. I’m sure someone could come up with a stat such as cost per win and they’ll find that the Hawks are at the bottom. Go Hawks!

By buckhead Benny

December 18, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Woodson has got to put his ego to the side and give Salim more consistent minutes- He hasn’t even played enough quality minutes to make a decision on him. As I have said all along and a lot of others. Just having Salim standing behind the arc (not even shooting) is going to free up space for Joe and Al and Josh. I guarantee you every team in the NBA would take Salim in two seconds. God forbid if he ends up on the east coast much less his style would automatically make him an all star in the west with the likes of Phoenix, Dallas, etc. How about getting him 20 minutes a game for the next 10 games. If he doesn’t progress then play him like you been playing him. To put him in and then take him out after he misses a few shots does nothing for any young shooter but show him the coach doesn’t have faith in him. Joe Johnson’s numbers I doubt would be any better if he had those types of minutes. Hell Joe plays 45 minutes and his Field Goal percentage is horrible. The reason for it is he usually has a double team. Even if Salim is just a decoy I can’t see where it doesn’t benefit the Hawks. Especially as the season goes on and hopefully the playoffs. History tells us especially with the Hawks they are going to need every single player contributing at some point due to injuries and the long season. I think Salim and Acie have the most promise to keep improving as the season goes on. Hopefully Woodson will be a positive example this season instead of a the negative example of the past. Thank god he put his ego behing him and started Anthony Johnson otherwise Anthony would be buried on the pine. Oh that’s right Woodson didn’t have a choice so we can’t give him credit.

One last thing- Anybody still sick of seeing the play’s that Woodson calls after the time out’s. He must have called the same inbound pass three times in a row to Joe Johnson at the end of the game. Come up with something else. Also, how about putting our shooters in when you know they are going to foul so we can make our free throws. Theres no way you need both Al and Zaza in the game when all they are going to do is foul.

By Astro Joe

December 18, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Sekou, I recall that BK (or Woody) mentioned pre-draft the need for a bigger shooter to add to this team. I had convinced myself they would make a run at Jarvis Hayes in free agency.

Huge win last night. Let’s make it 3 in a row by beating the snot out of the Heat tomorrow night.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Ramon, your 12;22 post is exactly what I’ve been saying all along. BK isnt the best GM, but he’s far from the worst. I didnt like the Chill pick, but turns out, he’s exactly what this team needs, I hated the Sheldon pick, But that was a sorry draft, where bigs are concerned. And I think he was actually rated higher than Boozer was when he came out of Duke, and no one thought Boozer would develop into the player he is today. B.Roy was on the board, but everyone knows how Woody feels about playing rookie guards. Thank GOD he passed on Roy, or we would have probably won a few more games and missed out on Horford. Everthing seems to be working out, so get off BK’S jock. One more thing, if we make the playoffs, we would have landed Joe Johnson for a late 1st rdr and Boris Diaw. WOW! GO HAWKS

By Tap Daddy

December 18, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

big win last night and if we can get that type of play from AJ on a consistent basis ( i know probably wont happen) playoffs here we come.

By tjhooker

December 18, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

Sekou, no shooters on the team? When did Salim take a sabbatical? Anthony Johnson’s play Wednesday confirms who needs to run the point and initiate the offense. Acie Law becomes the guy in waiting, Mario the defensive specialist and Salim can be paired with any of the three plus Joe Johnson to force the defense to extend. I always wanted the Hawks to pick up a perimeter big man like Brad Miller to open up the lanes for Willams and Smith but if Anthony Johnson can consistently prod the wings into being aggressive and going to the hoop while remaining an offensive threat himself, then the problem is solved. But the team definitely needs someone to lead the starting unit besides JJ. AJ is a good candidate. Johnson and Johnson, baby.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Does anybody know how old AJ is? Just wondering how much he has left in the tank.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

Do you guys still want YI over Horford? Great call BK.

By Hawksville Resident

December 18, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

I was at the game last night. Great crowd out last night! All I can say is that Atlanta should be in love with Al Horford. The kid went on a tear last night against one of the best power forwards in the game in Carlos Boozer. He positions himself and grabs rebounds like a seasoned veteran and he just always seems to have fun out there on the court. This guy is going to become an every year lock for the All Star team! I just love what he brings to this team. I don’t see how anybody can look back and think we should of taken Mike Conley over him at 3 now.

By RA

December 18, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

My thing is this, Marvin Williams is your dead eye shooter from twenty feet in. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I love the kid! He can play three,four, and he handles the rock well enough to even give you some point action from the three. Here’s the thing, a lot of the anylists said on draft night that the Hawks probably should have taken someone else. They may have been right, but the one thing that most of them agreed on was that five years down the line, Marvin Williams may have been the best player in the draft. Now, I’m not saying that he is, but I will say that with everything that he can do, I’m looking forward to seeing him mature.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

I was wrong on Marvin’s stats last night, it was 21pts, 6reb, 3assists, and 3steals.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

When a GM is handed a team in shandles, he should be given at least 3-4 years to rebuild. We are in year 4 and things are looking pretty damn good, if you ask me. WHAT ELSE CAN YOU ASK FOR?

By doc

December 18, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

terrell, acie is nothing close to a true point guard so shelve that line of thought, he was a tweener in college known for his pressure shots not his dishing ability. anyway you missed the main point of this blog as it was addressed it to the point of not needing a point guard but a shooter. it was in direct reference to needing a guy who could share the burden with jj of shooting the outside shot with touch and keep teams from collapsing on the lane. that has been something i suggested was a need in 2006 and reinforced in the draft of 2007 dude. then along comes a trusted scout with cred according to blog z/sekou who was making the point of what this team desperately needs. stick with the line of thought if you can terrell.

btw terrell i have often contended the team that should have drafted roy was chicago and that he is their real need now, not thomas, that should have fallen our way so we wouldnt have had to draft sheldon in the first place. bk was hamstrung by owners and had to draft for need that year, simple stuff because owners couldnt pony up to get a real free agent. i know the scenario quite well.

2006 was not the best year for bk when it came to draft picks nor free agents. you just cant argue any other way dude. for the most part it is pure dead wood sitting on the pines called the bench.

By chris

December 18, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

Does anyone remember how Salim used to light it up in college? He was one of the best shooters in the country as a senior. He is not a pass first point guard, he is a shooting guard trapped in a point guard’s body.

By Mac

December 18, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

I live in Athens Greece and I am a Hawks fan for 20 years. I wish to have the opportunity to watch at least one game of the team.

You fans in Atlanta don’t appreciate what you have. I watch the photos from the games and the seats are always empty, that’s a shame.

By RA

December 18, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

I’ve gotta back Terrell. I mean for the bigger part of the last three years, it seems like everyone, me included, was ready to hang Billy Knight from a sour apple tree. I mean, we were critical when BK drafted Josh Smith, three years later, he’s leading the league in blocks. We were critical when he pulled the trigger on the Joe Johnson deal. A lot of people, including yours truly, thought that two draft picks and a player (Diaw, who turned out to be all everything for them that year) was too high of a price to pay for a guy that wasn’t even the best guard on his team. Less than two years later Joe is an all-star and may be again and the two draft picks that we were afraid were lost for ever ended up materializing in the form of Al Horford and ACIE Law IV, not too shabby (of course, that part of it was just dumb luck…). Nobody even flinched last year when BK took Anthony Johnson off the scrap heap and threw him into the mismatch mix of guards in what looked almost like an afterthought, but who had 17 points and 14 assists just last night? Even Sheldon Williams, who it seemed like nobody approved of, has shown some serious game this year. There’s one more thing that everyone (self-included) conveniently forgets. Pete Babcock left the Hawks a mess, but three plus short years later, this team, injury riddled as it is has a winning record against the western conference which EVERYONE should agree is stronger than the east… Now, is BK GM of the decade, no. Has he made some mistakes, yea. But folks I think we really should get rid of the “fire Billy and Woody” banter that has plagued this blog for so long and in which, I must admit, I was a complicit member.

By The Flash

December 18, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

doc From the last thread. No agenda. I worked as a federal prosecutor for a year, would still be if they had let me. I have close friends who were high end federal prosecutors, very high end.

I have tremendous respect for federal prosecutors; I hate when what they do is sullied, which it has been in both of these instances. I have a nose for such things, and neither prosecution here passes the smell test.

As for Senator Mitchell, the guy tried to negotiate a Middle East peace agreement (alot of good that did) and then parlayed (sullied) that into this farce of an assignment which, insofar as I can see, produced a worthless document. Got paid millions for nothing.

As for needing another shooter, I have always been on that, where is my boy Roy. However, it is not another shooter that they need to open up the inside game, but rather another coach.

The inside game will open when the inside players are used as the pivot of the offense. Unless they are involved and the game is played inside out, talk of a better inside game is wishful thinking. And, once an inside out game is established, we will see what Law can do as a shooter.

Inside out causes a collapsed defense to expand, and creates opportunities to penetrate the defense effectively, with the ball and without. That ends up leaving defenders tentative and outside shooters with the ability to find their rhythm and less pressure about making because there will be lots of easy scores.

They should have Roy and a one this year, and should have gotten more for Al or kept him, which also would give you the outside shooter you are looking for. Don’t get me started.

By ray

December 18, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

Terrell Barron, I admit AJ is making Billy look good right about now. It’s possible (as Doc said) that this is a result of AJ walking out on Woodson to get his attention. We’re seeing the AJ that changed things in Dallas a couple years ago. I’m glad we have him now, I was afraid he was past all the ability he showed in Dallas. No hating on Lue, be he’s been very effective in a faster paced game than Lue has. However, can’t forget the play Lue exhibited when healthy (i.e. hitting some big shots in games). AJ has been more effective on defense than Lue though, due to size probably.

It’s obvious this team has progressed. It’s obvious that this team is better than the last few years. A .500 record going into the second half of December? I’m thrilled and pleasantly surprised! But to temper that excitement just a bit: teams are going to improve. They are going to make moves to improve. The worst thing this organization can do is sink into the idea that absolutely no moves need to be made. Sekou says that a qualified opinion has stated a need. Management needs to research that need and fill it. It definitely makes sense. Ok, so we’re not going to get another good big guy. Fine. Fill what needs you can though, don’t stand pat. Other teams aren’t going to do that…not the smart ones, anyway.

Guys (and gals), isn’t winning just wonderful? I know I like it. It’s been mentioned here before: winning magnifies that which is good and masks that which is mediocre or bad. It makes GMs look wise, Coaches look like impeccable leaders, and players look like stars. People speak of “fantasy basketball”, and it amuses me greatly. After a bad loss, people (this would include me, no hypocrisy here) start laying blame and use the losing to validate arguments. Same thing happens after a good win. All of the sudden it’s “this is what I’ve been saying all along” or “see? I told you…my prediction is correct.” Not to mention several other hilarious comments. We all do it to some extent. It’s living and dying with each win, each loss. It’s easy to pick and choose a single stat line on a given night to try and prove one’s argument. And often, it’s a case of interpretation vs. misinterpretation…and the forgetting of facts while living in the moment.

Case in point: AJ outplaying Deron Williams. Interpretation: a classic example of a veteran player having a great night and outplaying a rising star player who is in his 3rd year. Misinterpretation: Gee, sure glad we didn’t draft that young, rising pg. He didn’t play as well as our veteran journeyman last night, nor did he have the stats the guy we drafted in place of him did! Fact: Last night’s game comparison-Deron Williams 14pts, 10 assists, 0 fouls, 1 turnover vs. Anthony Johnson 17pts, 14 assists, 4 fouls, 3 turnovers. A huge difference? Only in the FG% area. Second fact: Deron Williams season averages 19.9ppg, 8.9apg. Anthony Johnson-6ppg, 4.9apg. Marvin Williams-16.1ppg, 5.7rpg.

Deron Williams: a 3rd year pg competing for a spot on the all-star team who will do so for the next several years, barring serious injury. Anthony Johnson: a solid veteran who is a good man to have as stand-in or back-up. Marvin Williams: A 3rd year forward who can score some but will never be the special player that Dominique Wilkins says comes around only once every 10 years.

Don’t get me wrong. I like Marvin a lot. Like AJ too. And I know the past is the past. BK had what was needed when he drafted the Joshes. Forwards are ALWAYS available, whether through draft, trade, or free agency. Josh Smith is the one of a kind forward, hands down. We drafted him at what, 17?? We drafted Marvin #2, and through absolutely no fault of his own, he will never have the ability or impact Josh Smith has. The first 20 games of this season alone are proof of this. Yeah, I know it’s the past. But there’s a reason it’s called history. You’re supposed to learn from it, not repeat it year after year.

By RA

December 18, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Last time I looked, the guys that we have were playing there #%?!’s off night in and night out. Maybe we should be thanking OUR players for the effort that they’re putting in instead of issuing lamentations for the ones that ended up on SOMEBODY ELSE’S team.

By buckhead Benny

December 18, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

I agree about Billy Knight- In fact I will go on record and say he is by far the best GM the Hawks have ever had! (Now that’s not saying much but it is true) I will back it up with Draft Picks- BK- Al Horford Acie Law Josh Childress Sheldon Williams Josh Smith Boris Diaw Marvin Williams Salim Stoudemire Solomn Jones

The biggest knock Billy gets is the Chris Paul Deron Williams which I think if you look back you definitely take Chris Paul. However, everyone said that Marvin had the most upside but it would be 3-5 years down the road- We are definitely seeing improvement-

NOW BILLY KNIGHT GETS CRUCIFIED WHILE PETE BABCOCK IS THE ONE THAT PUT THIS FRANCHISE WHERE IT IS- HERE ARE PETES PICKS-

2002- Traded future first round pick for Dan Dickau- 2001- Traded the rights for the #3 pick Paul Gasol for Shareef Abdur Rahim (this pick alone devastated the future of the hawks) 2000- Demarr Johnson- (horrible) 1999- Jason Terry (only nice pick for babcock) Dion (no shot) Glover Jumaine Jones- traded for future first rounder THIS IS WHERE IT GETS REAL UGLY- 1998- Roshown Mcleod 1997- Ed Gray 1996- Priest Lauderdale 1995 Alan Henderson 1994- No first round pick? 1993- Doug Edwards 1992- Adam Keefe 1991- Stacy Augumon- Anthony Avent 1990- Rumeal Robinson

You go back 12 years for Babcock- and I think he was there for most of the 12 years- there is one decent pick Jason Terry- the rest are horrible- This is why this franchise is so bad!! At least Billy doesn’t have any busts! All of his picks are decent if not good or great!

My problem is with Woodson- I think he has the ability to be a great coach. However, I think he is too stubborn to play all of his players and rotate them. He is too young of a coach to be putting young players in a dog house. Hell every year they have all of these injuries like every other NBA team- Instead of rotating and getting these guys quality minutes so they build confidence and play together as a team he wears out his starters.

Great post Terrel- You look at the history of the Draft- Every year there is only about 5 really good players that come out of it. The rest are busts or disappointments. Every once in a while you get a stronger draft than usual like last year.

I do think Billy deserves some credit especially since the GM before him arguably goes down as the worst ever. Hell he traded Domonique Wilkins!

By doc

December 18, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

singing to the choir flash as far as roy and the hawks.

as far as the feds the one i know commented on the vick deal AFTER it went down and said he was dead meat in so many words way early in the game. he got involved because of the slight link to atlanta and they were adamant not much else was needed, back in may. the guy should have folded and things could have gone much smoother for him is my guess but by your thoughts yesterday maybe not. just dont quite understand your line since vick was involved from day one and refused to admit it throughout. dense, stubborn, loyal or stupid, pick your poison right? or was it just plain poor counsel? nah, never, right?

By Micky SC

December 18, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Bravo — 2006 playoffs — New Jersey vs. Indiana. Anyone remember? Anthony “Jiminy Cricket” Johnson took control — total control of the Indiana Pacers and carried them on his back. Is he slow — yes. Is he a deadly shooter — no. I played High school ball with this guy and he has always been told he was not good enough. Guess what - he is good enough. This veteran of 10 NBS seasons is seasoned. Acie Law could learn alot from him. It would be a shame if when anyone, I mean anyone comes back healthy AJ’s minutes lessen. AJ has shown that with solid, consistant minutes he can lead a team. Will he score you 25 points a night? No, but when he has to he can put the ball in the hole. Not every team is meant to have an Allen Iverson. With the weapons the Hawks have all you need is someone that can knock down a jumper or two to keep the defense honest. Someone earlier asked if the Hawks would be better off with the 2nd round draft pick they lost for AJ. Think about it. 4 point gaurds and only one healthy (AJ). Can a 2nd round draft pick play the point? Woodson would be best served riding it out with AJ getting the majority of the minutes and having Acie and Lue coming off the bench. Bye Speedy. Either Acie or Lue can lead the team next year, after AJ is gone.

By ray

December 18, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Now that I’ve gotten my halfway out of control rant out of the way, here’s what I think about last night:

We didn’t “get away” with that win. We earned it. I don’t care what anyone says. I don’t care that the bigger media sources are still not giving us any love. Who can blame them for thinking it’s a fluke? Will we win enough to get into the playoffs? Still not a given because of a few things: other teams will improve, the ever-looming possibility of the injury bug (God forbid, though), and we still have roughly 75% of the season to play. However, this team is better than the last few EASILY.

Just look at the box score and you can see how it went down. The Jazz were healthy and had all moving parts (okay, so Okur wasn’t there..Harpring has BEEN gone and Almond is a non-factor). We were missing several, but the core was there for the most part (no Chill, though). The Jazz took the first quarter. We fought them every step of the way and took the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters. When the Jazz made a good run in the 3rd, I thought “Oh no, here it comes.” But we hung tough, got the lead back…and extended it!

JJ is still a subtle force. He is getting back to his “I can shoot anywhere on the court” ways and is one hell of a ball-handler. There was a move he did at one point between 3 defenders that was just nuts. Each defender thought they had a steal…NOT! He’s so smooth, and hit for a quiet but deadly 26.

AJ: the guy was great. We need more of that. And given the minutes, we will probably get more of that from him, even if it doesn’t translate to the stats he had last night.

Horford: okay, here’s where I enter my token “See, I told ya so” argument. I TOLD YOU HE COULD SCORE! He’s tough, and he’s calling for the ball a little more. The guy can score. And his defense/rebounding is really up there. Give him the ball. Absent foul trouble, I figure he can give us 18 and 10, no problem. Look at the scoring streak he had when he was involved a bit more than usual.

Marvin: This is what we’re all talking about. He finally starts driving more instead of just looking for an uncontested jumper. Result? 11-12 from the charity stripe. And his stroke is so smooth, you know he’s going to hit most of his free throws. WAY TO GO MARVIN! Keep driving…keep driving…

Mario: I love this guy. Please keep playing him at least 15-18mpg. If we could give him Salim’s shooting ability we’d have a perfect combo.

Josh: Another “I told you so” moment for me. I TOLD YOU HE WAS NOT THE ATTITUDE-LADEN TROUBLESOME GUY SOME OF Y’ALL KEPT SAYING HE WAS. Where’s all the guys who kept saying “this guy’s a ticking time bomb, he needs to go. Look at how he yelled at the coach last year.” Funny…I don’t hear anything now. Hmmm. And in spite of the fact that he remains the player with the single most trade and stat value, he’s quickly bringing home the question of who is really the face of this franchise?

Zaza: Poor Pachulia. He didn’t do too badly in his “cameo” appearance last night. But he looked awful on defense. Someone should reward him with frequent flyer miles, considering how many times he left the ground if an opponent holding the ball so much as even lifted his chin toward the basket, much less actually pump-faked. Geeez. Stay on the ground, big guy. You’re 6’11 and 280. Use your weight and strength to deny positon and take up space. Stop the flopping. Keep your arms/hands up. Fight for rebounds. Don’t worry about blocking shots unless you know you can hit the ball, and not some random body part that’s nowhere near the ball. You’re our only center that doesn’t have hackathon disease (ahem…Lorenzen). We need you.

By Clyde

December 18, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

Let’s not forget Babcock had us in the playoffs just about every year. And under his leadership he gave us our last 50 win season. Yea he traded Nique but Billy has never been close to making the playoffs.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By doc

December 18, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

now ray, since i brought up the idea that this is really j. smash’s team or becoming it then, you are now agreeing with me since you had me explain it to you when i suggested it? can i tell you the old man told you so. flash, the old guys still got some game right? ok, it is time for our naps. say good night flash.

clyde, dude a bit obtuse on that one especially in light of the hawks continuing to learn how to win and have just manned yup to the jazz. life is to be flexible and bend a bit, ok maybe not as much as you pointed out that ken has done which is flip flopping :-)) (kidding ken). it is ok to say the hawks are showing you something in spite of the ownership, bk and woody. you sound as inflexible a someone who is a fan of alabama. pause for the laugh on the other end, what it wasnt there. kidding clyde. it is all good.

check you guys after the nap.

By doc

December 18, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

now ray, since i brought up the idea that this is really j. smash’s team or becoming it then, you are now agreeing with me since you had me explain it to you when i suggested it? can i tell you the old man told you so. flash, the old guys still got some game right? ok, it is time for our naps. say good night flash.

clyde, dude a bit obtuse on that one especially in light of the hawks continuing to learn how to win and have just manned yup to the jazz. life is to be flexible and bend a bit, ok maybe not as much as you pointed out that ken has done which is flip flopping :-)) (kidding ken). it is ok to say the hawks are showing you something in spite of the ownership, bk and woody. you sound as inflexible a someone who is a fan of alabama. pause for the laugh on the other end, what it wasnt there. kidding clyde. it is all good.

check you guys after the nap.

By The Flash

December 18, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

docmy view, the judge slammed Vick beyond what the prosecutors themselves were asking for. You hear me right, beyond. Why, because he did not come clean to begin with. I ain’t buying that.

Henry Hudson was appointed as the US attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia and his claim to fame in that office is that he lead the federal fight against pornography, that, and the oh so effective “war on drugs.” He was grandstanding.

What message was he sending by that stiffer sentence and to whom?

If the Feds had the goods on Vick, why didn’t they try him, why did they threaten a RICO indictment? A RICO indictment for a dog fighting operation. Are you freakin kidding me. That is not justice, but rather a perversion of it. That is my story and I’m sticking to it.

By buckhead Benny

December 18, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Clyde- You have to remember that Babcok traded Steve Smith for Isiah Rider right? Also, I forgot to mention he drafted Cal Bowdler and traded Jamal Tinsley with our first round pick- Indiana has been to the playoffs every year with him. Also, I think Lenny Wilkins did a pretty good job with the talent that was put in place.

What gets me is he fired Lon Kruger after going 25-57, 33-49, 35-47.

I think we would all agree there was less talent on those teams than what is now. I agree about Woodson though. I do think there are better coaches definitely out there. I think Woodsen would be better on a more established team. Young Coach= Young Team= INSTABILITY Experienced Coach=Young Team= DEVELOPMENT

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Doc, I was the one who said we should have signed Eddie House, Eddie Jones, or someone similar, so I know we need another shooter. I never said that Acie was a true pt. guard, so I dont know where that statement came from? I said that people were crying Roy, and he is not a true point guard, so why hate on Acie?

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Doc, I was the one who said we should have signed Eddie House, Eddie Jones, or someone similar, so I know we need another shooter. I never said that Acie was a true pt. guard, so I dont know where that statement came from? I said that people were crying for Roy, and he is not a true point guard, so why hate on Acie?

By RA

December 18, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

That’s funny,

Last time I checked this was a basketball blog, or did I blick? Clyde, again, for the hard of hearing, BABCOCK LEFT THE TEAM IN A MESS! It took three years to grow a team that had any chance of getting into the playoffs. (Now, I say that, but if it hadn’t been for the injury situation last season, the Hawks could have made things very interesting where that last playoff spot was concerned…) Anyway, considering what he inherited, I think he’s done a decent job. As for the “success” that Babcock had in the 90’s, that’s called mediocrity. You’ve got guys on this team that can be not just good Mookie Blaylock was good, Steve Smith was good. You’ve got guys that can be great. Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Al Horford. Those guys don’t come around very often and you’ve got three of them on the same team, four if Marvin Williams becomes as good as it looks like he might. Now, I’m not going to guarrantee that BK will be around to witness the culmination of his handwork or that Woody will get to witness first hand the success of the team that he forged in fire, but they deserve a heck of a lot better than to simply be held responsible for the mess that they inherited and they, more than anyone else have had to straighten out.

By The Flash

December 18, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

“goodnight flash”

By doc

December 18, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

flash i still dont qutie get your point is it he is getting too much or shouldnt have been fingered at all. pete and the humane society folks have had him in their cross hairs for his “outside business interests” and remained quiet about him for years to avoid having him go further underground and continue the dog fights. again some dont even think there is an issue with fighting period but that goes with all other types of laws. it is what it is.

just not sure what your beef is with what happened, too much time or should have been let go. he had a huge amount of evidence against him and dont most fed cases end up settled out of court anyway so what is the point of trying him and at what cost to you and me and to further pile it on the guy?

bad counsel is my guess. he should have settled early with the locals, gotten the nfl and blank involved and paid his time like air jorden did for his indiscretions at the table and been done with it. bad counsel man or stupidity and he wouldnt have even faced the rico thing that is used to get folks attention when they are too stubborn to give it up is still my guess. i imagine in one of your weaker moments you might agree that could have been how he could have scripted it.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Clyde, Billy has only been here for a few years, and he started from scratch. Thats a very unfair comparison.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Clyde, Billy has only been here for a few years, and he started from scratch. Thats a very unfair comparison.

By Ken Strickland

December 18, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

DOC, in reference to your Rich McKay question, the answer is an NO! McKay obviously built his reputation on the backs of others. He accepted the label given to him by others as an excellent evaluator of talent. He has now been exposed. Everyone that didn’t know before knows it was really that guru that left him and went to Seattle that was responsible(I can’t remember his name). Mckay is much like MShula, they got their recognition and status riding the coattails of their fathers, instead of their abilities.

I knew I’d be stepping on some toes when I made those comments. However, I couldn’t let that be an issue. It is quite possible we would have been a better OFF team had we drafted one of the aforementioned players. However, our current team is having trouble rebounding, and that is with the outstanding production of rookie AHorford. Tell me, Where would we be rebounding wise, without Shelden, Marvin and Horford. And, as someone mentioned in another post, if we had drafted Roy, Williams or Paul, and won a few more gms, we couldn’t have drafted Horford. Besides, how could either of these 3PG’s improve our rebounding deficiency?

There have been at least 2 dynamic PG’s in each of the last 4 college drafts. There are available PG’s warming benches that are good enough to start. Our acquisition of AJ, or the production of Calderon are just 2 examples. How many young Chills or Marvins are there sitting on benches with the same ability? How many 6’9” bench players are out there that can play C & PF and get you a double double with PT. Players like that, say Jason Maxill, simply aren’t available. Shelden hasn’t lived up to his college dominance, but he is hardly a bust.

My comments weren’t intended to be critical of those who thought those players would have been better picks. I felt the same way on a couple of occassions. Its just that everytime we lose, especially if it’s due to outstanding PG play, or we have trouble running our OFF, those 3 names are always brought up.

MWilliams is our 3rd option and takes fewer shots than Iguadala or Deng, who are their teams 1st option. When who take those facts into consideration, and then compare stats, Marvin just might have been a better pick for this team. It’s not likely either of those players will improve significantly, but that’s not the case with Marvin.

We can all take a que from ANDO. He had every right to pound my butt into the ground for may personal attack on him. Fortunately, he took the high road and bailed me out. So, let’s continue to agree to disagree, but with respect and honor. LOL. I’M LOVING THESE HIGH FLYING HAWKS!!!!!

By RA

December 18, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Basketball, hello?

By Astro Joe

December 18, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Sorry, I’m not buying the idea that AJ is getting love because he walked out on his coach. With the flood of injuries, we only have 2 options at PG, AJ & JJ. And JJ has expressed his preference, so the choice was made for Woody.

And I, for one, am confused about what a pass-first PG is vs. a combo guard. Is there a threshold that says if you are under/over this PPG and under/over this APG, than you fall into this bucket or another? Is Deron, who averages 20 PPG, pass first or combo? Tony Parker averages less than 7 assists and more than 18 points, what is he? Chris Paul averages a half-a-shot less per game than the leading shooter on the Hornets… in other words, he’s a half-shot per game away from having the most field goal attempts on his team (the first scoring option in theory). Does that mean he’s a combo guard?

Again, someone please explain these PG buckets as I can’t tell the difference anymore amongst the elite PGs in the league.

By MannyT

December 18, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

terrell AJ is 33, but well preserved as he averages about 20 mins/game for his career.

It’s good to see all this Hawk love, but there are still a lot of games to go. Once Woody gets his players back, I hope he doesn’t get brain overload from the choices.

Clyde your Babcock love makes me laugh. The Hawks were good before Babcock. Babcock took over a much better situation. He was ok with trades, but BAD in the draft. Recall the GM on the other side of that Gasol deal was BK. I give Knight credit for the speed with which he cleaned house and creates cap room even though that included giving away Hawk for a day to Detroit.

I look forward to seeing the road blues on Wednesday night against the Heat.

By Pep75

December 18, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Good win yesterday!!! We are in the 7 position in the East conference, and I can’t remember the last time we were in that position after playing more than 20 games. At least this week I am happy to be a Hawks fan.

By doc

December 18, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

to try and qualify stupidity for luck i cant buy. roy would not have bought us many victories as he had some injuries his own. what it did point to was a significant lack of support for the guy they had taken the last year billed to take exactly the role that horford has given. whatever you cant have it both ways and give bk cred and then use the blind squirrel excuse that maybe he wouldnt have had the chance to make it right the second go around.

and yes terrell i have been quite impressed with house this year and acknowledge your comments as i agreed with them. he is what this team needs to play the run and gun. maybe marvin can grow into that kind of a gunner but hold on the no look passes, not ready for prime time on that one and it should have come later in the flow of thing. maybe salim will somehow get out of the doghouse long enough to get his own confidence and shooting touch and gain woody’s confidence as well.

the three guys that have to deliver to win are marvin, jj and smith. after that all is gravy. get some more stops guys against the heat.

By Ken Strickland

December 18, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

I forgot to address CLYDE’S comments. We were all disappointed and upset at the way the team played after defeating Dallas and Phoenix. We all saw so many things that weren’t being done and the results showed. We all, including me, placed the blame directly on the shoulders of Woodson. Most, if not all of us, wanted him fired, especially me.

The question is CLYDE, do you simply want him fired or do you want him fired because he’s not doing a good enough job. My change in attitude corresponded directly with the overall team improvement, overall play, and their won/loss record. Our key players are dropping like flies, and Woodson has this team actually improving gm to gm. He had us competing and winning even when JJ was way off his gm. He is maximizing the talent he has available to him. He’s gotten JSmith to realize what his true OFF value is to this team.

We beat Utah at their own gm by playing physical, uptempo, and grind it out half court OFF. Do you think the players designed our current OFF during that players only meeting? Do you think Woodson pulled it out of thin air and installed it overnight? Everything the players are currently doing and using has been in place since the season started. It was just up to them to embrace it and make it work, which they are now doing. It just took a lot of player frustration, bad play, embassassing loses, and a players only meeting, for them to make the committment.

I’m not afraid to admit that I’ve been wrong. I am a Hawks fan, and I want this team to win and make the playoffs whether it’s with or without Woodson and/or BK at the helm. I don’t have a personal agenda, like selling Tshirts or creating an identity, “FIRE BILLY AND WOODY”. If a person is critical of another for certain shortcomings, whether real or imagined, and that person corrects or eliminates those shortcomings, THE PROBLEMS NO LONGER LIES WITH THE ACCUSED, IT LIES WITH THE ACCUSER. CLYDE, if you don’t understand what’s going on with me, you obviously don’t understand what’s happening with this team. Woodson has this team playing for a legitimate playoff berth, and he has them playing through inexperience, youth, lack of size, lack of an inside OFF, outside shooting, and mounting injuries. GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE, AND GET ANOTHER LOGO AND START DELIVERING ANOTHER MESSAGE. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

By doc

December 18, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

ra life and friendship hello?

aj, i didnt mean to imply he got his job because he walked but i imagine it got woody’s attention that he was serious about playing and stop the crap.

aj,i think a pure point guard is one that cant shoot. we got one in speedy and i think conley fit that bill. it kind of boils down to what does he do first like in what qualifies for a run qb, whether he looks for number three receiver or takes off on his on. is he a look first or shoot first kind of guy? but it is all as grey as your doctors x-rays he tries to read. nothing black and white, ambiguities.

By doc

December 18, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

ken, have you ever been a preacher? no, checked your past life?

repent clyde or the wrath of ken will forever be upon you.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Cant we all just get along? haha

By cp

December 18, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Great win last night. As in the previouis year, Woodson coaches better with a shorter bench. As said by someone else , he has a less chance of messing it up.

By randy

December 18, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

I am continuing to be impressed with AJ!! This guy has been our savior! Last night he was playing like an all star. I was very negative on him last year, but he sure turned it up so far this year. Only hope he can keep it up.

By the way, I think Speedy’s chronic injuries is contagious, half our team is out. I think Speedy is holding locker room classes on how to fake injuries and Law is his brightest pupil. I know it is premature and I hope I am wrong but Law looks like a bust. Either he will be hurt all the time or he will never be a point guard. He has already missed most of the games first with a wrist injury, then a twisted ankle, and now its his knee(Speedy must be a damn good teacher). When he is playing, he doesn’t look impressive just confused about whether to shoot or pass and he doesn’t seem to do either very well. Thank god AJ is playing!

By The Flash

December 18, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

doc Let me try this again.

1. I have never felt that the Feds should be involved in such matters, but I understand that there is a Federal statute dealing with dog fighting so that dog won’t hunt. Pardon the pun.

2. The federal prosecutors, if they actually had a case against Vick, should have tried it when they could not get him to plead, after having already thrown the kitchen sink against him in the indictment. They didn’t.

3. What they did was was promise him that if he didn’t plead guilty they were going to prosecute him under the anti raceteering law, which, if convicted, would have sent him away for at least 20 years.

4. Now, they apparently had some difficulty getting him even under those circumstances to plead to the entire indictment, in particular to the dog fighting aspects. That, most probably, was the least proveable aspect of their case. Also the most questionable—who actually did what and all in Vick’s presence.

5. A lie detector test was administered and he failed. Now, such tests are sufficiently UNRELIABLE so as to be inadmissible in a court of law, which is pretty inadmissible because there have been some pretty g-d damn unreliable types of evidence sending innocent people away for long periods of times for years. Nevertheless, armed with that failure, the Feds refused to take a plea unless it included to stuff that Vick maintained that he was not guilty of.

6. If they wanted to take him to trial to prove his guilt, they should have. They didn’t. They said you plead to what we demand or you face trial with a RICO charge thrown in. Now, that to me is not JUSTICE. It is tantamount to using a coerced confession against someone. It is wrong, in my view. As in dead wrong.

7. As for Mr. Hudson, the prosecutors recommended a stiff sentence against Vick. Hudson, a politico if I’ve ever seen one, went against their recommendation and sentenced him to even more time.

8. I believe that that sentence was politically motivated and that it had nothing to do with placating the doggie-lover lobby. I believe that the sentence was completely uncalled for.

9. Vick now faces a second prosecution in which his coerced confession will be used against him, forclosing any possibility of his defending himself. With the exception of Malvo, the snipper who slaughtered a dozen people in the DC area, I have never heard of a person being prosecuted in multiple jurisdictions, certainly none for a crime in which no, hello, humans actually got hurt.

So Hudson knew that Vick was already going to get slammed twice for the same crimes based upon a confession that was coerced (and therefore unreliable under law, except this kind of coercion is considered legal so it is not considered unreliable). Nevertheless, he went beyond the cowardly prosecutor’s recommendation and sentenced Vick to more time.

This too I think was wrong.

In sum, the Feds should not have been involved, but that I’ll let pass. They should have made a deal with Vick without resort to any RICO threat. The RICO threat tainted the system and Vick’s conviction. I’d rather a thousand guilty men go free then see RICO used in this fashion. Two thousand. You name the number.

A justice system that depends on confessions coerced in this fashion is corrupt and morally bankrupt. That is my view.

Judge Hudson’s actions were laughably political if they were not so sad. Ronald Reagan politicized both the judiciary and the justice department. We are now seeing where that can lead.

The former attorney general of the United States is under investigation as we speak for lying about the reasons he fired 8 US Attorneys who refused to do the Republican Party’s political bidding. I’d repeat that but I am getting worn out.

There is evidence that the US Attorney’s office in Va, which prosecuted the Vick case, had given into the White House’s political pressure and that the current occupant US Attorney there was appointed for political purposes.

This is a scandal beyond description, only people are so concerned about the war and the mortgage debacle and whether Vick and Bonds get punished sufficiently that they ain’t payin no attention.

By Andy

December 18, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Why don’t you do an article on Speedy? What is happening there? It really p** me off that there is no official injury yet the guy probably won’t play a minute this year, he barely played last year and we’re paying him millions. That might interest people!!!

By Ken Strickland

December 18, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

DOC, trust me, if you really knew me personally you’d know that referencing me with a preacher is a stab in the back. I believe is spirituality not culturally dominated religions.

By Don't be fooled

December 18, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Hey, people, I like 12-12 as much as anybody. But don’t forget with even a little astute general managing and coaching, we wouldn’t be wetting our pants over .500.

Focus.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY!

By Ben

December 18, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

SPEEDY CLAXTON IS A FRAUD.

SOMEONE NEEDS TO GO TO A HOME GAME, SIT BEHIND THE BENCH, AND YELL OUT “SPEEDY QUIT FAKING YOUR INJURY AND GET ON THE COURT.”

HE OWES US $10 MILLION FOR THE SERVICES HE HASN’T DONE US.

FRAUD FAKE LIAR JOKE

By doc

December 18, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

ken just funnin with you as you had gotten on the pulpit to clyde. we all get on our soap boxes and preach a bit to our passions. that is pretty spiritual, i guess.

By The Flash

December 18, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this

Maybe if Speedy, under proper supervision, could take roids and/or HGH and be able to play, bad knee and all, just like Barry.

Say, I wonder what keeps Amare going. Just teasing, here Doc, in a spiritual way and all.

By Clyde

December 18, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this

Don’t get me wrong yall. I do not like Babcock. What I am saying is Babcock had us in the playoffs the majority of the time he was was here and Billy hasn’t made it to the playoffs yet. Matter a fact Babcock put together a championship quality team the year he traded Nique. Babcock signed some crazy contracts but so has Billy (Chis Crawford vs Speedy Claxton).

The only difference is Babcock won games but Billy hasn’t. And if yall call 13-13 winning then your mind ain’t right.

FIRE BILLY AND WOOODY

By doc

December 18, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

flash, amare remembers whatyou said about him and is doing it to spite you. seems you are in the holiday spirit and all. pretty lucid today. nice rundown, seems to me the primary issue is the head legal guy, da judge and your issue with jurisdiction or involvement. of course, as you said the latter one didnt hold water as it is your own bias and belief rather than law. btw everyone and his brother knew that judge was tough and would rule accordingly, seems he didnt let anyone down on that expectation.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

Barry was’nt alone, my man. Can we send Craig to the D-League?

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

BK really screwed us on the Gasol for Rahim trade. I guess he’s a little smarter than a lot of us think. BABCOCK WAS HORRIBLE!

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

Alot of people say that Western Conference is so much more dominant than the East, and that may be true, but in my opinion the Eastern Conference is much more exciting. In the West you sort of know who’s going to be there in the end, but in the East, its always up in the air. That makes it more interesting, in my opinion. Isnt it great, wanting every team in the East to lose because the Hawks actually have a shot at the playoffs this year? The Bulls will finally get there wish tonight. Kobe’s coming to town. lol GO HAWKS

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this

Speedy was the only veteran point guard that was available at the time. I know he’s a fraud, but we were not the only team trying to get him. We just offered the most money. At the time, no free agent would have chosen Atlanta unless we BROKE THE BANK. And you guys know it.

By ray

December 18, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

Doc, you deserve to say a huge “I told you so!”. You had it right, old feller.

Astro Joe, the last time we tried to define positions things really got out of whack, LOL! I guess a combo guard is a guy who can play both positions reasonably well, and qualifies as one who can be called either but clearly shouldn’t be labeled as purely one or the other. If that doesn’t muddy the waters enough, we can define pure point and pure shooting guards too!

Terrell, yeah we can all get along, but what fun is that? Heh heh…

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

Woody need to let Acie take a few more shots. He’s use to scoring and creating for others, not just creating for others. I think its throwing Acie’s game off a little bit.

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

Pat Riley is probably showing Shaq that photo as we speak. Why are we trying to motivate a team that we have to play tomorrow night? Does the AJC want us to make the playoffs or not? Dont be suprised if the Heat comes in here and wins. Little Pooky is getting healthy, you know. GO HAWKS

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 8:37 PM | Link to this

DIESEL’S OUT OF GAS. Well, he’ll probably fill up tomorrow after he sees that. Thanks AJC.

By mykhalc

December 18, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

FLASH, my man, PREACH!!!!!!! you said it and probably could not be said any better!!!!

first signee to pull outta the ARK program ‘cause of PETRINO!!! keep ‘em leavin’!!!!

still say ACIE is the cat that’s needed, when healthy. but WOODSON’s gotta let him play his game…PERIOD!!! it all comes down to makin’ the best b’ball decision as the play occurs. to me, ACIE began to show he could make those kinda decisions and plays before the ankle injury. the cat has just gotta find his groove again!!! but AJ is playin’ some good ball in the meantime, no doubt!!! definitely like how the team is playin…TOGETHER!!!!

By jhan

December 18, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

Acie & Salim need playing time I agree. First they need to stay healthy for more than 2 games.

Anybody know what the nucleus of the team was when Babcock took over vs. what BK had to start with?

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

I see why Phil wanted to keep Bynum. This kid has a lot of potential.

By randy

December 18, 2007 10:43 PM | Link to this

Why are you guys talking about Acie like Woody is holding him back?? What has he shown you except the ability to get hurt? He isn’t playing cuz he is on the sidelines in street clothes. I hope he improves, but right now we just need him for trash minutes to rest AJ. Don’t get me wrong, I was looking forward to seeing Acie play more than anyone, but he just looks confused on the court, not sure whether to shoot or pass, he still has a ways to go. And if Law can’t stay healthy and with AJ playing like he is playing right now, he certainly won’t be our #1 PG by midseason much less the end of season.

By Steve T

December 18, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

Badcock had us in the play offs but we were not getting better as a team. The team would nver had gone to the big dance.

Billy, on the other hand, is trying to build a team that will go to the big dance. Granted we had to suffer, but if we win it all it will be worth the wait. People will have to admit that the Hawks are looking nice and it could help us secure a big time FA. If you were a FA and you looked that the Hawks, you will see an up and coming team. If they could sign a big time center that could beat any team in the NBA.

By mykhalc

December 18, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this

randy, it’s simple. with the way the team was playin’ before ACIE got hurt, his last 2 starts before the ankle injury, one could see him makin’ the right decisions and improvin’ his assist numbers and gettin’ others involved, findin’ his groove. then after he got hurt the team started playin’ selfishly, no ‘team’ ball at all. then the players only meetin’ which resulted into the rediscovery of team play. so i have no doubt that if ACIE was on the floor with the way the team is playin’ now, it would be all good…as long as WOODSON does not to get in his way, which WOODSON is known to do. and since you seem to forget how ACIE was doin’ before his injury, try to remember that AJ JUST started showin’ up!!!!

By terrell barron

December 18, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

This just in: The Falcons want Parcells to be VP of football operations, but wants Mckay to stay on as team president(if Parcells wants him) See ya Rich

By mykhalc

December 19, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

one thing you can say about BLANK…he is a do’er, no doubt!!! ahhh, the beauty and power that lies in a single team owner!!!!

By Hawks fan

December 19, 2007 12:27 AM | Link to this

Why did Fizdale and drew want to leave can anybody answer that question?? I have noticed that the players will almost listen to Herb every time he tells them to do something. and i don’t see any of the assit coaches are players disrespecting Herb just Woody. Herb knows his stuff and is a great coach i would like to know whats the beef between Woody and Brown??? they were best friends until they came to atlanta.

By William Ware

December 19, 2007 12:45 AM | Link to this

Why has no questions been asked about this?? If Larry Brown ever get’s another head coaching job then you can bet Herb will be gone. Heck Woodson asked Herb to come here and then he treats him like S* on the sideline i’ve seen this and for myself as well. I would also like to know what is going on as a season ticket holder I have alot of respect for Herb Brown. They even removed his name as one of the hawks assit coaches on the website. whats up with this new coaching staff news?

By Hawks fan

December 19, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this

Read this Woody comments about Herb Brown

Q: The staff changes this summer were the first of any kind to your staff since you took over. How difficult was it making those changes knowing that Herb Brown and Greg Ballard have struggled through the past three seasons with this team and this year will be in different roles?

A: That part isn’t easy for me because, as you know, I’m loyal to my staff. They worked their [tails] off, and while I know some people might look at it like it’s some major shakeup, I don’t call it a major shakeup. Herb Brown is still going to be a big part of what we’re doing; he always has been, as a special assistant to me. And Greg Ballard is in a scouting position that will help us. We will depend on his input to help us. Alton Lister is the only real addition to our staff. Everybody else is still here playing a major role on our team, and I trust what my coaching staff brings to the table or they wouldn’t be here

By RA

December 19, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this

Just one thing about Speedy Claxton. I really do wonder what’s going on with him. I mean, everything that I heard in pre-season led me to believe that he was ready to come back and be a force for this team. I think Joe Johnson believed as much… Anyway, he hasn’t played at all. Now a couple of years back I remember Woodson shelving Tony Delk until the team could package him off in a trade… I’m not trying to start any rumors, but it’s interesting food for thought.

By Hawksville Resident

December 19, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

Dear AJC,

If you’re going to insult the star player of the other team, at least wait until AFTER we play them. They don’t need any extra motivation. I mean I know you’re supposed to be objective, but you are the ATLANTA journal constitution, right? Go Hawks!! I’ll be there tonight!

By RA

December 19, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

Yea, I’m going to have to go with the Hawksville Resident on that last comment. That picture article about players staying past their prime is exactly the kind of thing that could end up in the locker of a very large and potentiallly volitile man who is in the opinion of many, including myself, still one of the most dominate players in the game…

By joe

December 24, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

Too bad Scott Stiles doesnt coach the Hawks. That is the BEST coaching security in all of sports. No matter how unachieving the team performance is, we will hold on to Woodson! Get a coach before it is too late to truly contend in the East!