Hawks

By terrell barron

December 5, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

He needs to stop talking and start producing, PERIOD! I think that he has more trade value than Josh Smith. And with the way he’s playing, it seems like more bloggers would want to deal him instead of Smooth. Would’nt you think?

By BosnianBaller

December 5, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Good Update.Even if Joe was in last season form this year it still wouldn’t make a differnce on the overall record b/c there is still no true defensive center in the paint and no energy on the court from the whole team.

By tb

December 5, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

That would be an example of the kind of reporting that I was talking about last blog.

Why am I reading you telling us that you are going to do what we all should expect you to do.

You just wrote an article to tell us that you are going to go do something. We want the results, not the I’m gonna do.

The only follow up on my request for a little real inside info was Astro J praising you for having broken such gems as, Smoove is working out in Houston with…and Chil is in Cal getting his degree.

Somehow I’m looking for a bit more; like where is the divide on our team and who is on who’s side. Are Woody and BK really on the same page. Anyone one close to the scene would have impression, observations or even reports of what they saw or even felt. We get nothing.

By tb

December 5, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

JJ has a point about the management of the team. He is also probably suffering the immaturity of some of his team-mates.

But, he is also letting that affect his game which is part of the team problem. Sometimes being right will stear us wrong in our adaptation to the thing.

By terrell barron

December 5, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Maybe its just me, but I expect a lot more from a max player.

By Ryder

December 5, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Here’s what I think: Since JJ is struggling so much with his shot at this time, he will be a much better asset to this team by playing more of a distributor role until he gets back into his regular rhythm. I can’t remember which game it was, but he had 10 assists on a bad shooting night and it enabled the team to win. I understand Acie Law is the PG of the future, but it helps to have someone who can pass as well as JJ can.

I’m not saying that he should play the point at all. It’s just that while he’s looking to regain his shooting stroke he should look more to pass to keep the offensive flow going. Part of the Hawks problem in the past was due to the fact the other four guys on the court would wait around to see what Joe was going to do. He has his moments when he takes over a game, but it doesn’t always have to be by scoring.

This Hawks team has offensive options in Marvin, Smoove and Chill. I would include Horford but he’s gotta get that FT percentage up. If JJ could average 17 with 7 assists that would go a long way in getting this team to operate better in the passing game.

That’s what good captains do: find other ways to get their team to win ballgames when their shot is missing.

By Ryder

December 5, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

terrell, you don’t get it. The problem doesn’t lie just with JJ, it lies in the fact that the Hawks have a coach who can’t draw up an offensive system to take advantage of the talent that he has.

tb, outside of Anthony Johnson walking out of practice, what other immature issues have the Hawks displayed this year? There were rumors of a Josh Smith altercation in Detroit, but everyone on the team was quick to denounce it.

If anything, JJ is frustrated with the way this team is ran by its coach.

By MsDee

December 5, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

I totally agree Ryder. Joe may need to play a little PG by driving the lane and dishing out to AC, or Chill, or Marvin, then to JSmoove for an open shot. And if/when those shots by our other players continue to drop, that will cause the opponents to stay with their own men giving JJ the open lane to take it on in for a dunce!! Which will give him back his confidence to score outside.

By AJCfanatic

December 5, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Here’s a thought.. We are paying you to be the Vince Carter or Chris Bosh or whoever you would like to make the superstar comparison to.. and you aren’t performing. So JJ get in the gym work out the kinks and shut your mouth. I don’t think you realize how privileged you are to play a game for a job and to do it for millions of dollars. The city of Atlanta wants the championship as bad as you do but if you are going to sulk about it you need to step back and get a perspective on your life

By The Dark Karma

December 5, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Clyde=moron has taken the proverbial cake on the last blog.

This fool states “I can’t get Woody’s woody out of my mouth long enough to watch a game” Well it is obviously time for some serious name-calling. Only, he started with himself by unceremoniously labeling himself a pole-smoker. Brilliant. Should people who call other people morons be and then make a statement such as this be allowed to touch keyboards? I have some difficulty finding an example of a more disgusting and completely intelligence-free comment than that one. Congratulations. Fool.

Then of course, we cannot forget the wishfully infamous imbecile that goes by the name of TB. He seeks to upbraid the creator and administrator of this blog for a perceived dereliction of duty. “* We want the results, not the I’m gonna do*” I believe is the quote. How presumptuous. As if telling the most intimate details of players thoughts and locker room events would not destroy a beat writer’s valued relationship with said contacts, much less destroy his credibility, and therefore rendering him as ineffective as TB claims him to be.

Perhaps TB should volunteer to relieve CLYDE=MORON’s duties with Woody’s “woody” on occasion so that he could watch a few games. Then again, perhaps not. It is certainly difficult to silence one idiot. It is often insurmountable to silence two.

By Astro Joe

December 5, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I never doubted that you would be all over it like fine on Beyonce.

Here’s where I have concerns about Joe’s pre-season statements… it came after the most hopeful pre-season in probably the last 8-10 years for this franchise. A stellar exhibition season. A draft that was universally praised. And when you factored in some of the individual performances in March and April of his teammates during his absence, it certainly felt like the stock price was heading to a 52-week high on 11/2. And on the eve of the new season which dawned with unprecedented optimisim, he steps out of character and seemingly blasts his franchise and teammates. P** poor timing if you ask me. Saying that Sean Taylor once had character issues may be a true statement, saying it within hours of his tragic death was horrible timing (and damn insensitive). Similarly (but not nearly as important), Joe’s comments were true but were very, very poorly timed.

By Dan

December 5, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

I think Joe is just not a natural leader. That is not a knock on him, just true. He is quiet.

These comments were going to cause a reaction. I think he knew that, but he is not able to deal with it. He is trying to be a vocal leader. It is just not natural for him.

Regardless of how you feel about what he said, he took a shot at the organization. He put himself center stage when he did that. I just do not think he can handle that kind of heat.

He played like crap last night. That is one thing that is for certain. Can’t make millions and perform like he did against the Pistons. That is not OK.

By JerryWest

December 5, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

If JJ is hurting he shouldn’t force so many shots. He takes the 5th most FG attempts in the NBA. Only LeBron,Kobe,McGrady and Melo takes more FGA/game.

Only 4 other top 50 scorers have lower FG% than him (Durant, Smoove, JRichardson & Crawford). Only Durant in top 40.

Its time for JJ to stops using the PGs as his pizza delivery man. Let them create and make the decisions. Wait for your spot up shot. If he is injured he should use his mouth to tell others to shoot and start complaining to the referees instead of the press.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 5, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Nobody questioned what JJ said, we questioned the timing of his comments.When you are the face of the franchise you dont call guys out the day before your first game. What was he doing all summer long-Did he have Larengitis or something.

JJ should be fine physically-he didnt play in the Olympic qualifier this summer, who knows what his problem is -I can except a shooting slump, but I cant except lack of effort-especially when u making 70 million over 5 years. If you are down on your team and dont want to be here trade his azz-if he is in a slump work through it shut your trapp and perform like the professional u are.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 5, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

OMG!!!! TB is going off, I agree with you though-why post what u are going to do -just do it and give us your findings.

By mavid

December 5, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

Not everyone took digested Johnson’s words the same. I know some of his teammates felt they were the targets of his ire (and nothing could be further from the truth).

Uh oh. See, that’s what worried me about that article. Did Joe or you happen to let them know that that wasnt the intention?

Im guessing it was Smoove that had the biggest problem with it. Which leads me to something Ive been wondering a lot lately….

Do Joe and Smoove even get along? Can they co-exist?

I’ve been noticing a lot lately that, in games, the two dudes dont really seem to be on the same page. Even worst, Im not sure they even like eachother that much. There was a moment last night where they showed Joe going to the bench, with Smoove trying to talk to him. It looked to me that Joe straight up ignored him (he looked very frustrated), almost like, “don’t even bother me with that ish.”

I think we HAVE to make a trade. As has been the case for awhile now, we have to balance this roster. But even more so, I think we have severe chemistry issues that can’t be righted with the current personnel. We need guys that have fun playing with each other. I don’t think we have that now.

And, until Sekou lets me know otherwise, Im still thinking that Smoove and Joe really have problems with each other.

By shutupalready

December 5, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

OMG what do you ids do not watch the games and respond based off of what others comment on. Let’s do what needs to be done and call a spade a spade (thats what us spades players tend to do during the holidays). First and foremost let’s go back to when Joe decided to come to ATL - he was wined and dined and told that he would be the center peice (in order to be a center peice - other peices have to be placed around you). Strike one - Strike two - Joe played with one of the more well assembeled teams last summer (minus the original dream team and Jelly Bean Bryant’s baby boy). If you come off of that high and you return to the Hawks how long can you ride that until you wake up and realize I’m not in Vegas anymore and I have little to nothing around me. Strike Three - This is the NBA PEOPLE - guys get paid a TON of money to scout the oppenents and obviously what works for some teams works for others. Night after night the game plan is simple Take Away JJ and your chances of beating the Hawks improves 1000 fold. Lets not tank the season just yet but for the love of basketball lets make others on the team show movement when teams double and tripple our humble leader and oh yeah put Salim in - hes the only player who can spread the floor.

By Tyger

December 5, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

A trade would not hurt the Hawks, they need tweaking. There isnt any significant difference between the starters and the bench, except min. played.

Nothings wrong with Joe that a winning streak couldnt cure. I think as the team is currently constructed that JJ should be playing more PG and the Hawks going with the BIGGER lineup more to toughen up some.

They are the softest team in the league. And they cant shoot either.

Hawks need toughman and shooter.

AC played like a Rookie last night! Arrgh! That was ugly.

By Clyde=moron

December 5, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Dark Karma,

I’ll make this quick. I only post under 1 name here: Clyde=moron. The person who posted the “Woody’s woody” comment used the clever moniker “moron=moron.”

Translation? The other commenter was Clyde himself trying and failing at being clever. I called him out for banging the bishop over his picture of Smoove, and he decided to prove my point by trying to accuse me of doing the same for Woody.

Oh Clyde. If only you had an IQ above 60, maybe you could come up with better comebacks than that. And Dark Karma - did you go to the same school as Clyde? Because apparently you’re too dumb to even be able to read a screen name.

GO HAWKS!!!!!

By The Dreamer

December 5, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

I expect much more from Joe. Everybody has bad nights, but at least look and act like you give a damn. At the preseason scrimmage at Phillips, Joe appeared lifeless, listless and generally disinterested. Woody even commented on his strange body language.

I chalked the strange body language up to it being just another meaningless scrimmage, but the strange body language persists on most nights.

After the New Orleans game, I said that I was done with the Hawks. I could no longer emotionally invest in a team that didn’t emotionally invest in itself.

Joe’s got to give more. As the leader, he sets the tone. His lifeless play will infect the team and diminish their intensity (if it hasn’t already).

I’ve got a life and entertainment options aplenty. What I don’t have yet is a reason to care about the Hawks. They must care first, led by Joe. And right now, it doesn’t seem as though he does.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 5, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

“WOODY’S WOOD” What the hell is that? Im with you on that Dark Karma can we stick to Basketball here, and leave the pole smoking for the boyz down at Bulldog’s.

By Paul

December 5, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Just one quick thing Sekou. Could you find out what the deal is with Speedy. I know he’s got knee injuries and I know there’s nothing new to report. But that’s the thing.

There’s nothing new to report. Either he WILL be able to play basketball in the future (and if so, we should get an estimated return date) or he will NOT be able to play in the future (which in this case, we should already been inquiring about getting a medical retirement). There is no reason to just sit in limbo. Open up the roster spot, or try to set a date for future return.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 5, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

JJ is a very talented ball player but he is IMO a second option. He is a poor mans Pippen,who needs that jordan in his life for vocality and leadership. Kobe-Lamar / D Howard-R. Lewis. He was a 4th option in Phx. JJ is our best player, but it seems like the other players defer to Smoove. Instead of forcing the offense JJ should let the game come to him and maybe avg.16-19 pts about 8 assists /4 rebs.- spread the ball around more and give other guyz scoring opprotunities.

By Ryder

December 5, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

It’s not about body language, nor it’s about the timing of his comments. The problem with JJ is that he just needs to settle down and focus on getting the others to play better. That is what real superstars do. That is why Jordan and Nash won multiple MVPs (and why Shaq should’ve won some, but that’s another story).

The fact is this: it shouldn’t matter if he and Smoove are best buddies or not, JJ has to do help them elevate their games, and I think he has.

I think in the long run it falls on the coach to ensure that his star is happy. Sekou, you do a great job, perhaps you could look more into that issue. Somehow I think that is the major problem among this team.

By MannyT

December 5, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

JJ’s off his game right now. He needs to find his way back to being that efficient scorer. Maybe he needs to drive the ball more while his shot is AWOL (like we suggest for JSmith whose shot is more like a crazy relative-here for a few days, then gone for who knows how long, then back again.)

As for the leader thing, it seems that there is a lot of pressure on him to be a certain type of leader. That vocal, visible sports type that may not fit his personality. I hope he gets to leading the JJ way even if that does not fit the norm that others may expect. It will be better for him and his team in the long run.

I don’t know what has been said to him by Hawks management, but aside from this year, they have not done the best job of getting him help either through free agency or the draft.

By Anthony

December 5, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

*By terrell barron

He needs to stop talking and start producing, PERIOD! I think that he has more trade value than Josh Smith. And with the way he’s playing, it seems like more bloggers would want to deal him instead of Smooth. Would’nt you think?*

Are you serious? Do most Hawks fans actually want to trade Joe Johnson and keep Josh Smith? Josh Smith doesn’t have his head on straight. That’s why he’s so inconsistent. I’m afraid Hawks fans don’t realize what they have in Joe Johnson.

By Pete

December 5, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Can Joe dunk ?

By Kappy

December 5, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

I think all the time and energy spent on Team USA this past summer really took a toll on Joe. Those other players he was with are used to being number one options on their respective teams. I still think Joe is growing into that role.

By SalimFan

December 5, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

For the last couple of games joe has been getting double and triple teamed everytime he toches the ball. It’s that simple. Personally I love it. It forces other guys to grow up and make plays.

O.K Im through being nice. MIKE WOODSEN IS A DUMBASS!! I’ve tried to hold my tounge partially because were 500. over the last eight games but woodys gotta go. AND YOU ALL KNOW WHAT I’M ABOUT TO SAY.

JJ’s getting shut down and you woun’t bring in instant offense off of the bench to help him?? Yes I’m talking about salim. OOHH, but bring him off the bench when you’re already down by 20!!! That helps.

I CAN’T TAKE IT ANYMORE fifteen points in fourteen minutes all in the fourth quater. He’s the only person besides joe who can do that consistantly. He’s been doing it since he played his first game for the hawks.

Lets be honest no other drafted player by the hawks in the l;ast five years came in the leauge that better offensively than salim. And he’s still better.

WOODSEN IS JUST STUPID. Tha’t the only locical explanation I can come up with at this point. The hawks go through offensive lapses where thy don’t score all the time. And you have a guy who can fix that, but you choose to bring him in when the damage has already been done. He’s just a selfish idiot who has a vendetta against certain player.

IF YOURE NOT GONNA USE HIM AT LEAST. TRADE HIM TO THE OTHER 29 TEAMS WHO DEFENETLY WILL.

And joe can’t do it all he needs help. unfortunately it’s warming the bech.

By Astro Joe

December 5, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

Pete, would you rather have Reggie Miller or Dion Glover? Ray Allen or Fred Jones? Michael Redd or Gerald Green?

Who cares if he can dunk?

By terrell barron

December 5, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

I thought we had something in Joe, but lately I’m starting to have my doubts.

By Hawksville Resident

December 5, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

My take is that Joe Johnson is just not happy with his current situation. He’s not happy with the team, he’s not happy front office, and he’s definitely not happy with the Coach. All of this frustration is starting to effect his game. You can see it in his demeneor. He’s just going through the motions because he feels like Kobe that the organization lied to him to get him signed and now are not giving him the pieces that he wants or even needs to succeed.

The worst part about this is that he’s the leader so if he’s giving up then the team gives up ie last night.

By SalimFan

December 5, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

Against the hornets the other night,Chris paul is a perfect matchup for salim. Espically with acie out. but of course woodsen is an idiot and rufuses to play athletes he secretly hates.

shutupandplay is right salim is one of the few guards on the team that can spread the floor consistantly and allow joe to go to work.

And joe just dunked about four games ago. he doesn’t do it as much as he used to ever sice he injured his face on a dunk attempt in the playoffs a couple of years ago. He prefers to be absolutely 100% open nowadys before he goes up for one lol.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 5, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this

HEY PETE its funny you mention Dunking and JJ in the same sentence,I have’nt seem him do it all season, but none the less there is no way i would trade JJ before Smoove. JJ is in a funk right now but josh has’nt ever show a consistent jumper. For all who want a deal done for Kobe -there it is ,we will have to give Smoove and JJ for kobe—- in other words forget about it

By Tiger Woo

December 5, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

Even if both parties approved a trade of Smoove and JJ for kobe, do you really think Kobe would come to Atlanta? He would laugh at a trade like that. Even Kobe couldn’t turn the talent he would be surrounded with (or lack thereof) into a contender.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 5, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Mark Jackson would be a good coach for our yungnz.the man knows x’s and o’s -hard nosed PG and student of the game-lets give him a try. What the hell give my uncle leroy a try -he is a little league coach who wins big -gotta be an upgrade over -ol woody …. beat that horse get him gone

By Tiger Woo

December 5, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Yes … Joe can dunk - but that’s never been part of his game … he’s at his best when he penetrates and uses his crafty inside moves. Those have been missing lately.

By slim

December 5, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Joe just needs to be himself, being vocal is really not a part of his character. Sure he should speak or call out certain players when the opportunity presents itself, but otherwise just play ball.

By Wink from Lithonia

December 5, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Joe spoke the truth this team does need some help. Truth is JJ is part of the problem this team needs a leader and someone who wants to take games over. Let get this team some help!

Trade JJ(max player), Josh Smith (fake superstar potential), Sheldon William (fake landlord & power forward), AJ & Speedy to LA for KOBE & any Big they will allow to leave.

AC Law, Kobe, Marvin, Horford, Zaza in starting line up; Chills, Salem, Lue, Solomon, West & Laker big throw in, play off the bench.

This team would be competitive in the East, possible playoff run.

Draft best available big in 2008!!!

By Pete

December 5, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

Even Ray Allen dunks……..Dunks at the right time in games are statements to other teams that we will not be punked!!!!

Joe just needs to man up!!! Where is the fire man???????? It is not going to be easy to drop 30 on folks anymore after he made the All-Star team that’s the price of being the man……Now he has to be a man!!!!!

By Tiger Woo

December 5, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

Wink from Lithonia,

A bench with Chills, Salim, Lue, Solomon, West & Laker big throw in is sort of weak.

Even a starting lineup of AC Law, Kobe, Marvin, Horford, Zaza isn’t very imposing. Kobe would be asked to do even more than he does for LA. He would be double and triple teamed even more that Joe Johnson is now. Where is the scoring coming from when he’s on the bench or (god forbid) gets hurt?

By Tiger Woo

December 5, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Pete,

Joe can’t do it alone. Even Michael Jordan needed help - when he finally got some players (Pippen, Grant, etc.) then he was able to get to the next level.

Dunks are exciting and all, but there are other ways to make statements - look at Steve Nash and Tony Parker, for example. Their leadership and clutch play speaks volumes to the opposition.

By Pete

December 5, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this

Woodson is playing it too safe with his rotation. Occasionally, he needs to force teams to matchup with our lineup. I know he is a defensive minded but he has to understand there will be turnovers when you have a young PG and a new (yet fully implemented) uptempo offense.
With that being said give Salim earlier and more minutes and we will be in more games. Salim plays better than Lue at the point because he is a better penetrator and quicker. I think he turns the ball over because he is trying hard to get into Woodson’s stagnant rotation.

*Woodson let them play!!!!!

By daddy

December 5, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

Well, the cats out the bag. Josh Smith and JJ can’t get along, and neither one likes the coach. They need to get over it and stop acting like middle school girls and be professional.

By Sekou K. Smith

December 5, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

Mavid,

I’m letting you know, Joe and Josh Smith get along fine. In fact, they get along much better than (apparently) anyone around here knows. Appearances aren’t always what they seem, be it on tv or in person.

What I can tell you is this, if the Hawks had a win for every misguided assumption by some poster on this blog (not you, Mavid or any of the regulars who have been here from early on) cooked up his own half-cocked theory on what’s going on, they’d be 82-0 the past three seasons and 17-0 this year.

By The Dark Karma

December 5, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

So, the one usually using the “moron” moniker has at least fabricated an alibi for his freudian slip. Amusing.

IMUS WRITE. I do not recognize the name of the place you mentioned. It would appear that you know something about it however, in apparent intimate detail. Perhaps it would have been better not to admit such things.

By Ryder

December 5, 2007 6:52 PM | Link to this

Here’s an idea: LET’S GET DANNY FORTSON! He’s big and he’s a veteran, it should shut up both the bloggers and JJ.

Oh yeah I forgot, this organization lacks the pantalones to get the job done. We have a coach who acts like he’s about to wet his pants every time he calls the team to run, and players who look as confused as trying to find Waldo when it comes to his offense.

Since they refuse to resolve the ownership issue, they are just going to let this thing with Woodson ride out and try to hire someone on the cheap. I can promise you that if things don’t change quickly, you can say goodbye to both Joshes, JJ, Salim, and all the other point guards sans Acie will be gone after this season, because they’ll have had it with this mess.

It’ll be just like when all the Falcons fans couldn’t wait to get rid of Vick. Bottom line: be careful what you wish for.

By mavid

December 5, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this

Sekou, point taken, and that actually is comforting to hear cause lord knows I want both those guys to be around for the long haul. I guess what I saw was general frustration, not necessarily disdain at Smoove.

In any event, we have some real chemistry problems that need righting. I just don’t know if it can be done in-house. We’ve had such bad chemistry problems for so long, maybe a trade is needed? Perhaps Acie could change all that and be the motor for our offense, but only time will tell.

By terrell barron

December 5, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

I think we might be putting a little too much into coaching. Yes, I also think that Woody sux, but it isnt his fault if his 90 mill$ player cant hit WIDE OPEN shots, and is’nt the vocal leader that he needs to be. Hell, look at Doc Rivers, he was fired in Orlando and was on the brink of getting the axe in Boston until KG and Ray came to town. PLAYERS MAKE COACHES, COACHES DONT MAKE PLAYERS

By B-Man

December 5, 2007 7:53 PM | Link to this

It seems like so many people are trigger happy to cash in on this team when I think they are just now playing some of the best ball they have since Smitty and Mookie were here. (Smitty, might make a good coach, by the way)

We’ve looked awful in a few games, but looked great in others. As long as the team doesn’t listen to a few of these “half-cocked theories” and doomsayers on this blog and give up. They will continue to develop the consistency. They’ve learned to play well, now they’re learning to win.

By Juan

December 5, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this

Sekou, how about calling out Speedy Claxton for milking his “injury.” I think the guy is an absolute fraud and a gutless wimp. Hell, I don’t think he is even remotely injured — the MRI(s) on his knees showed NOTHING! Speedy Claxton is an absolute joke and more attention needs to be brought to the fact that he is absolutely stealing money from this franchise. The guy is a disgrace.

By mykhalc

December 5, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

SEKOU, we need a ‘delete any KOBE trade talk’ key!!!! PLEASE!!!!!LOL

mavid, your hit on my point. ACIE will straighten out any b’ball chemistry problems as he settles back in IMHO. LUE and AJ just can’t run an ‘effective’ offense…PERIOD!!

By Samuel

December 5, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

TB,

You’re right on point my man. Good basketball players really don’t need need a lot of coaching. Any coach will tell you that.

I really don’t blame Woody all that much. Much of what he says is true. You gotta play defense and hit shots. It’s really that simple and right now we can’t do either very well cause we don’t have the horses period. Our talent level is at or near the bottom of the Barrel.

Those few wins we got early in the season against the top teams will never happen as the season goes on and those teams fine tune themselves.

I also don’t believe JJ has a problem with Josh. He just wishes he has more like him, but he doesn’t.

I look foward to seeing my boy Al Jefferson tomorrow. My first time seeing him live as a pro. Been watching him since grade school. He plays the game like it’s supposed to be played. Just goes out and does his job. I’d love to see him on the Allstar squad this year. He deserves it.

While were on the subject of Mississippi. What about my boy Monta Ellis. His rookie contract expires this year I believe. I know he would love to come South.

Marvin and Childress for Ellis and O Bryant?

By the way. Where is my boy Jackie Butler. You can’t tell me he wouldn’t help this team.

By HB Ando

December 5, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

Look, I don’t think any of us can know what’s going on in Joe Johnson’s head. It’s pure speculation. It SEEMS as if he’s worn down from all this losing, and from the realistic expectation that this season isn’t going to be much better than last. Why should he be any less frustrated with a bad ownership group, a clueless GM, and a poorly matched (to the roster) head coach, than the folks here who have been pointing these issues out since it’s inception, over 3 years ago?

If the folks like me, and some others here, are right that no help is on the way, this season, then why shouldn’t he be unhappy and frustrated. And if he was led to believe that the organization was going to rebuild more aggressively, with the addition of veterans, when he decided to sign here, then why shouldn’t he be p** off?

It’s not his fault that Billy Knight offered Phoenix’s 4th option, with no history of leadership skills, a $70 million contract, and then proceeded to unnecessarily strip the Hawks of 3 first rounders (that includes Diaw).

The real question is “will he get over it and snap out of this funk”, or is this the beginning of an eventual divorce? I’d trade his a* back to Phoenix for Barbosa and the first rounder we’re giving them this summer, in a heart beat (then our net transaction with Phoenix would have been Diaw and a first-rounder for Barbosa). Then I’d draft whoever fell to us, when we inevitably have a top-five pick, out of Beasley, Mayo, Rose, Koufus or Hibbert.

We’re not going to the playoffs this year (still and again). And I still don’t understand why so many folks can’t differentiate the gulf between this team getting better, and actually being built for the potential to compete for championships.

It’s too early to draw any conclusions about his state of mind, but over the next 10-15 games, this is going to go in one direction or the other.

Nobody is untradeable. I’ll say it again, if guys like Shaq, Iverson, Garnett, TMac, and, quite possibly, Kobe, can be traded, then nobody on this team is untouchable. If there’s a deal that can make your team better, or give it the potential to be a legitimate contender, then you make it.

Problem is that Billy Knight hasn’t done a single thing to engender any confidence that he’s capable of getting the best of another team, via trade. He’s a joke. And the fact that the Spirit continue to led him lead this franchise makes them look like a joke too.

Folks here can split hairs, on a daily basis, about the implications of wins and losses, and young guys developing, but can anyone here seriously project the Hawks to find themselves competitive with the likes of the Magic, Pistons and Celtics, in the next 4 years? I think not. And if that’s accurate, then what does keeping an unhappy Joe Johnson here, through the completion of his contract, really do for us?

Hopefully, we’ll see the removal of both Woody and Billy, before the end of this season. And, if there’s any luck in this world, for Hawks fans, we’ll stumble across the right GM to take some of the compelling, ill-fit pieces of this roster, and make some moves that CAN give this team the potential to compete with the best teams in the East.

I won’t hold my breath.

By HB Ando

December 5, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

Sam, you can’t give up Marvin in a package for O’Bryant, when O’Bryant is going to be an unrestricted free agent this summer (GS declined his option). And GS has more 3’s than they know what to do with. But they still need another banger, so I still think we could swap one lotto bust for another, and send them Shelden for O’Bryant. Then they’re getting something for what will be nothing, come summer. And we’re getting a possible solution at center, for Billy’s worst move ever (and that’s saying something).

‘Course, I’d probably do a mutual sign-and-trade, of J. Smith and Biedrins, if we could make it 2 for 2 and throw in Zaza for Ellis.

Don’t you just love these “fantasy hoops” trade scenarios?

By mykhalc

December 5, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

mavid, just to add…i think the ‘players only’ meetin’ helped tremendously!!! whatever it was that cats needed to get off their chests sure did seem to work. it was the first time since the game in DET that i ACTUALLY SAW cats havin’ fun, communicatin’ on the court, and had a positive vibe amongst themselves. ACIE bumpin’ SMOOVE, HORFORD runnin’ up to SMOOVE after JS refused to be denied on a play, and JS goin’ up to JJ after one of his plays. definitely a different energy after the meetin’!!!

and i know i keep sayin’ it over and over, but ACIE will make the difference for this team…IMHO

By mookie

December 5, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this

Sekou, thanks for the info you do a pretty good job keeping us updated!! What is the attitude especially after last nite wondering what is wrong or we are this far behind the pistons who are a measuring stick for our young club? I’m not so sure if i were Woodson I would just resign and see if someone else can take these guy’s to the next level, your thoughts??

By B-Man

December 5, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, i think you’re right about Acie’s impact. our beloved ajc put the bold print up there about his shot being off, but for anyone watching the game, the flow was much better having him back.

my take is this on smoove though…I’ve never seen one player I loved so much on one side of the court and hated so much on the other. Granted, he is a high flyer with blue chip physical ability, but when will he learn to stop taking the jumpers? they almost always miss badly and are taken at very, very bad times. any time we need a good shot, he takes the bad one.

I will give him cred that he has gone to the hole more in the last 2 games and he always plays better when he does. So why does he always revert back?

By HB Ando

December 5, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this

You know, Sam, now that I give it some more thought, why don’t we just offer them Salim and Shelden for O’Bryant and Ellis? I mean, we drafted Salim before Ellis was taken, and we drafted Shelden before they took O’Bryant. So, clearly, we’re giving them the better players, or why would Billy have drafted our guys, instead of the two guys he passed on?

Maybe we could offer Salim for Louis Williams. We passed on him, too, to take Salim. I guess we should have made that offer before the Sixers fired Billy King. Now that they have a GM with half a brain, that’s likely out of the question.

That ‘05 draft will haunt me forever. Because I remember sitting at ESPNZone, in Buckhead, as each of our picks were made, asking the screen/Billy to draft the guy I like at each slot. As Stern approached the podium, I was praying (Sekou had already told me that I wasn’t going to get my wish, and that it was going to be Marvin) that they’d had a last-second reality check, and that Stern would say, “with the second pick in the 2005 NBA draft, the Atlanta Hawks select…..Chris Paul”. A few hours later, as we were prepared to take our second pick, and both Ellis and Williams had dropped down to us, I thought, “Damn, we’ve got our choice here. I like the local kid, Williams (who was there at ESPNZone, and looked like someone had stolen his soul, when he dropped out of the first round), but, after watching both in the McDonald’s game, and seeing that Ellis is a couple of inches taller, and still had a first step that required Tivo Slo-mo to catch, we can steal this kid here”.

Of course we took Salim, who looked to me then as he looks to me now: not enough handle, and too slow to defend starting one’s in this league, and too small to guard starting two’s.

Then, as we finally came to the 59th pick, I thought, “Well, we still need a big, and there’s A-10 shot blocker, Jones, or there’s Randolph Morris”. Now, the scoop was that Morris wasn’t ready, and didn’t have his head screwed on straight. But, at 59, why not grab his rights, and either stash him on the end of your bench, or D-league him?

The books’ still out of whether Morris will ever be a player. As is the book on Cenk, the 18-year old Turkish PG we still haven’t seen, that they actually used the pick on.

But I can’t help but think about what could have been. Paul and Ellis. Lined up next to Igoudala and Josh Smith. ‘Course, if we Billy had made the right picks, we would never have been bad enough to get that fifth overall pick. So we would have missed out on Shelden. I guess we should count our blessings.

By Dr. Dave

December 5, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

Good coaching is clearly lacking with the Hawks. A good coach would recognize that Josh Smith should not be taking lots of 3s, and would bench him if he didn’t take his advice. I am sick and tired of watching a team that has above average talent underperform on a consistent basis. I am tired of watching too many players think that they can beat their opponents off the dribble when they can’t. Has Woodsen noticed that the best teams in the league pass the ball more than they dribble it (e.g. Spurs, Suns, Pistons, Mavs)? I think Woody needs to go. The fact that the Hawks are young is a weak excuse. Enough already.

By Astro Joe

December 5, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

Ando, and we still wouldn’t have a center and someone would still be complaining about the lack of balance. Why? Because we’re the only team that is building exclusively thru the draft since the summer of 2005. And there hasn’t been a center worth drafting nor a center valued at the $6M/season we paid Speedy. Every other GM gets to fix their draft mistakes through trades, buy-outs and free agent signings.

By A Lady's View

December 5, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

Joe Johnson is fustrated because he found out he was lied to the hard way even though players around the league have said that nobody wants to play here. The problem is that we have a coach that does not have a system(offensive or defensive) and at times appears to not have any control over his team. He always looks dumbfounded and baffled by the action taking place on the court. And who says your best player has to be your team captain? Gilbert Arenas is not the captain of his ship but then again, they have a mature veteran player on their team that can handle that role.

By mykhalc

December 5, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

ANDO, i feel for ya bro. still stuck and it’s killin’ ya..damn!!!!LOL but i feel your pain my friend!!

DOC, we gotta help our brotha ANDO. courier a bottle of ‘RESCUE REMEDY’ to his address. it’s on me!!!LOL

ANDO, somehow i know, it could be worse!!!LOL

By HB Ando

December 5, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, Joe, but what do you call Beidrins and Bynum? Are you suggesting that neither was “worth drafting”, despite the fact that both were lottery picks?

Your eloquence in generating excuses should point you towards applying for a PR job with the Hawks. So Billy should get to fix his drafting mistakes, but you don’t hold him accountable for signing Speedy, trading an early 2nd rounder for AJ, when it was clear we weren’t going to make the playoffs last year, and, god forbid I mention it again, giving up 3 current, or future, first rounders, for a restricted free-agent who represented a $70 million contract to maintain his role as Phoenix’s 4th (!!!) option? Since the ‘05 draft, he’s added Joe, Speedy, Lo Wright and AJ. That pretty much makes your use of the term “exclusively” wholly inaccurate.

I’m sorry, I just don’t buy it. Not unlike Atlanta Hawks tickets…….

We’re just under the 36-win pace I predicted. Almost all of the guys who were trumpeting .500+ ball have quietly disappeared. This has never been as simple as bad, broke owners. Giving Billy a pass, based on that logic, is either ignorant, or plain stubborn. And I know you’re not ignorant.

By HB Ando

December 5, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Myc, I honestly appreciate your well-intentioned concern. It’s why I can’t come here on a daily basis.

But if you want to mail me a remedy, I’ll be happy to get my address to you in time for Christmas……..

By Clyde=moron

December 5, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

Dark Karma,

Please, please, please don’t tell me that you actually are so stupid as to think that I changed my name and then proceeded to insult myself. Please, for the love of God, tell me that you have at least the 3 functioning brain cells it takes to figure out that wasn’t the case.

If not, I feel bad for you. I really do. I guess the circle jerks that you, smartguy, and Clyde have around your poster of Smoove just take too much out of you.

Ah well. GO HAWKS!!!

By Steve T

December 5, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Someone needs to step up and hit the shots JJ use to hit. JJ is going 3-17 and that is not going to cut it.
I think the solution would be to move JJ to PG and let Salmin place SG. On defense, it works out because JJ can guard the big guard.

Another thing we could try is run JJ off some screens.

By Clyde

December 5, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

Hey guess what Lorenzen Wright is gonna do the first time he hits the floor this year. He’s gonna foul out in 5 minutes so he can sit his lazy a@@ right back on the bench.

And this is the only name I post under.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Astro Joe

December 5, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Ando, didn’t realize that you were saying that we should have drafted Bynum #2 instead of Deron or Paul (is that the right draft?) or Biedrins #6 instead of Iggy or Deng. My bad. Again, you win. My your good.

By curious

December 5, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

Why does everyone think Acie is the answer? Acie can’t do anything because this idiot Woodson won’t let him. I have seen him push the ball to get a quick bucket and see Woodson yell at him to stop. He is going to make mistakes because he is a rookie but he will also make easy baskets and get some for his teammates. The Hawks can’t be successful until they get rid of Woodson. It is painfully obvious this team doesn’t want to play for him. His constant negativity and stand around offense has destroyed this team.

By curious

December 5, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

I will make the point again. Does anyone find it interesting that everytime Woodson is in trouble that Tlue has come down with three different injuries in the last week?

By mykhalc

December 5, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this

ANDO, i feel ya bro. and believe me, there are days when I KNOW i should stay away from all that is HAWKS related!!! frankly, i think there is collusion(sp?) amongst the BROKE A$$ SPIRIT to drive us ALL CRAZY!!! and JJ might be the first to go!!!LOL (sad but true!!)

By mykhalc

December 5, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

ANDO, it could be worse…but we COULD BE FALCONS fans too!!! and have JOEY H as our QB!!! man, thank the gods for REDMAN!!!! ok, i’ll stop. LOL

By HB Ando

December 5, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Joe, I didn’t realize your only option was to use the pick you were handed, rather than trading up or down to actually TRY and build a balanced roster (for example, Portland giving up practically nothing to rook Aldridge from Paxson, in exchange for Stromile Swift’s brother-from-another-mother of a bust, Ty Thomas). I was simply referring to your ridiculous statement that there hasn’t been a center worth drafting since ‘05.

You act like Billy has faced a no-win situation, with six picks, in the last four drafts, within the first 17 slots. God forbid we had used one of those picks to either draft a center, moving in either direction to do so, or traded a pick, or packaged a pick, to address what has been an obvious hole for years now. You act like folks, across the nation, haven’t marveled at Billy’s fetish with drafting forwards, in blind refutation of the need for a legitimate 1 or 5. The very fact that Billy was allowed to give up the Johnson package, and waste a second on AJ, undermines any argument that he’s had his hands tied as far as moving picks around.

You, in classic Joe fashion, scurry away from the blunt point that I named 4 non-draft acquisitions, in clear and accurate correction of your statement that “we’re the only team that is building exclusively thru the draft since the summer of 2005.”

It’s one thing for Billy and the Spirit to make excuses. Do they really need folks like you to perpetuate the nonsense. Where does the buck of accountability stop?

After all these years, you’re still too damn funny (and it was just last night that Ray and I were talking about how much longer you could go without getting into a tussle with one of my posts)……..

By HB Ando

December 5, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

myc, the sick thing is that we might draft another Louisville QB, Brohm, during this summers’ draft. Please just say no. I think that kid Brennan is going to be the real deal. Be interesting to see how everybody projects after the combines…..

By Ramon

December 6, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

Ando, I respect what you have to say. However, if since the summer of 05 all of the team’s papers have been in court documents (needing approval from both sides of this WIDE Mississippi), how much could Billy had truly done? If the court order prevented BK from adding to the payroll (when the Hawks payroll was ALREADY in the lower 5 percent), what else could he have done?

In my mind, the only foolish mistake he made was Sheldon. However, he did that move to try to improve on the worse inside defense in the league. And statistically, Sheldon was the best defensive big man in the league. Not to mention, Coach K himself stated that Sheldon was a better (and smarter) basketball player than Boozer when he entered the draft.

Speedy had a history of injury problems so he shouldn’t have taken a chance on the BEST remaining free agent PG that summer? So I guess the Rockets shouldn’t have traded Francis for T-Mac, since McGrady had back problems before the trade. Or the Suns shouldn’t have signed Hill because of his documented past. Or how about after MJ missed over half of a season because of an injury, the Bulls should’ve traded him? Not to mention, the Defensive Player of the Year (2006-07) wouldn’t have a contract now because he had a worse medical sheet than Speedy does. Yet, this summer many people here was saying the Hawks should have traded their draft pick for this ‘injury prone’ player, why is that?

When BK signed Speedy, it was because he was a second option to CASSELL. But being veteran that he is (especially after the Bucks), Cassell knew not to come to a situation where the owners are going crazy. How hard do you think it is for BK to sign a free agent in this situation? How hard do you think it is for BK to make a significant trade?

Say what you like but if anyone in here has an employer, they know they can’t take the company’s credit card and purchase what ever they desire. Especially, if the U.S. legal system had prohibited that very action.

When BK drafted Marvin, he had NO idea that Smooth would turn out to be so good so quickly. Marvin was the highest rated player in the draft. And BK KNEW he wasn’t going to resign Harrington. On top of that, for 2 summers straight, Woody told BK and the press (am I right Sekou?) that he didn’t want a rookie PG.

BK hasn’t had a choice but to build through the draft. Jerry West is looked at as one of the best GM’s in the history of NBA. However, he once traded Eddie Jones for Glen Rice. Glen Rice went on to be helpful for a SEASON, and that’s all. Jones was still averaging 18 + two seasons ago. Not to mention, West hired Magic, Kurt Rambis, and took too long to fire Del Harris during his time with the Lakers. West gave Rick Fox a deal that would be close to the size of Speedy’s contract, when Fox wasn’t even the 3rd option on the team.

There is NO GM who hits over 80% of the time. Look at Kiki, he put the Denver team together. Now he is watching the games on a television just like we are. BK isn’t a bad GM. Look at what he inherited from Babcock, and you think that would really change over night? The Bulls took over 4-5 years to rebuild, with the SAME GM that brought them 6 rings.

And while you’re saying Bynum was a lottery pick, he wasn’t projected to be a lottery pick. When the Lakers selected Bynum, they stated they expected Bynum to sit for 2-3 seasons. If I was BK, and I knew I may not have more than 2 seasons left, I wouldn’t take that chance either. Although, Sheldon may never be worth the number 5 pick, he did fill a void that the Hawks seem to have needed. It was a swing and miss. And Lorenzon Wright signing is no worse than the Suns signing Jalen Rose.

By cp

December 6, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

It just seems we have too many laid back players. Only about three of the players on this roster seem to have that fire, well four… Guys just look like they are going thru the motions on the court. I dont what it is. I see we still are not running and gunning like I thought Woodson said we would. This team is so frustrating that I dont know what to say . Like i said a few weeks back, sit Joe down and talk to him. If he says he wants out of here then start burning up the phone lines and find a good package but when you have BK making the trades then its a no win situation

By buckhead Benny

December 6, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this

WOODSON IS THE PROBLEM!!!!!

I have watched every game of the hawks, and the media treats Mike Woodson so nice! Let me give you an example- This is his 4th year of coaching the hawks- 4th year- 4 years with j.smith and j childress. 3 years with zaza, j. johnson, M. Williams. T. Lue, S. Stoudemire- 2 years- S. Claxton, A. Johnson, and basically the whole roster except the new rookies. They showed up a month early to practise together-

This coach has no clue how to make adjustments to other coaches game plans or to the flow of the game- Example he kept playing man to man in the last game when he should have moved to a zone or box in one- Force them to shoot over the Zone with a hand in their face vs. pick and roll with open man in the paint or wide open jump shot with no hand in face.

Subsitions- S. Stodemire should play at least 30 minutes a game- This guy I promise you will be an allstar on any other team- He is their best shooter on a terrible shooting team that needs help taking the double and triple team off of their best guy Joe Johnson. Well what a better way to force guys to cover Salim if he is hanging out beyond the arc. I cam promise you there will not be any more triple teams and hardly any double teams when Salim starts draing the three. Guess what this does it opens up the lanes and makes them respect the perimeter. And Salim can shoot over the Zone. Now I know Woody tries to make it look like a defensive issue, but hell T. Lue can’t cover sh-t. T. Lue should hardly see the court. He should ride the bench because he is a liability on defense. He can’t move around due to his age and injuries. Also, they should have inserted their energy guy and defensive stopper to play straight up on Chancey Billups. Mario West is the same height 6’4 and you know everything Detroit does runs thru their point Billups. He won’t post up Mario and Mario would have had a better chance of disrupting his rythm than the rookie Law or A. Johnson. Zaza should ride the very end of the bench. He is slow, selfish, and soft. And, by the way Seko I can’t believe you don’t find out who the hell nominated Zaza for the hawks as an allstar candidate. ( This goes down as one of the biggest jokes ever for allstar nominations. Hell Horford makes Zaza look pitiful and development league material after you see Horford on the court then Zaza enters the game. This speaks to my point about somebody in this organization, and you have to think it is Woody the coach nominating him) His judge of talent. If Zaza is allstar material. Salim Stoudemire is all universe.

This team is getting worse as the season goes on as far as energy and team chemistry. If this was Woody’s 1st, 2nd, or 3rd he has a pass, but enough already. There is no coach that would not be fired with this much talent on their team. They are all high first rounders some in the 4th year J. Smith and J. Chill the rest are in their third. 7 members of this team have benn with woodson for 3 years.

This is a playoff team with a coach they respect. Mike Woodson does not motivate these guys. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see they need a veteran coach that has proven themselves that they can look up to that can make adjustments before its too late. I watched the sonics game and we came back and tied them and took the lead in the 2nd quarter and coach woody puts in Zaza, and I guess Zaza wanted to get some allstar votes and started trying to force shots. I counted about 4 turnovers in about 5 minutes from Zaza alone. He finally takes out Zaza and they are 9 points down. How in the hell do you lose to the Sonics? THEY WILL BE THE WORST TEAM THIS YEAR IN THE NBA. THEY HAVE 2 WINS 1 OF THEM COMING AGAINST THE HAWKS AT OUR OWN HOME COURT.

Player issues with Woodson- Josh Smith last year and this year. Salim(one of the best shooters in the NBA on one of the worst shooting teams in the NBA who is lucky to even get in a game. ( I think Salim must have said something about Woodson’s mama his first year, because it seems like Woody just won’t forgive this kid and play him.) Anthony Johnson.- These are just what has been made public. This guy has lost these guys.

Please save this season and get Mike Fratello, or some coach who is a proven winner that can see what is going on during the game and can make the necessary changes with our personnel on the court and call the necessary plays. I mean it looks like street ball. Players just trying to creat then shoot or pass. When’s the last time we saw a good play drawn up from Mike Woodson. Hell lets put Steve Smith in there to coach it seems like every time he is commenting on the game he is making suggestions about the personnel that should be in there and how he can’t uderstand how we aren’t taking advantage of the mismatches.

Billy Knight do me a favor swallow your pride and fire your old friend and teammate other wise this season will be your last! You don’t lose to the Sonics at home and get blown out at home by 20+ by multiple teams and say hey we just didn’t play with any energy. That’s what the coach is saying that means their not being coached 17 games into the season.

Understand- We are almost 25% of the way to the end of the season- There are 82 games- we have played 17- 3 more games your definitely at 25% THE WAY THEY ARE GOING THIS WILL BE 33-36 WINS- DO THE MATH-

GET RID OF WOODY- OR YOUR GOING TO GET RID OF THE REST OF THE FANS

By HB Ando

December 6, 2007 12:48 AM | Link to this

Ramon, all I see you doing is making more excuses. It’s not that I’m saying you’re wrong. I’m just saying that you’ve spent good time constructing what is essentially a series of excuses. I’ve been accused of stating my opinions as if they are fact. But your post is simply one of many that confirm that most everybody here is prone to that.

The restriction on increasing payroll came in ‘06.

Your paraphrase of Coach K is likely a variation of what he actually said, AND, what did he have to lose by pumping up a current Duke player, to enhance his draft status? The FACT is that NOBODY rated Shelden Williams as worthy of the 5th overall pick. Any statements to the contrary should be subject to quotations marks and a bibliography. And the very fact that laymen like me projected, pre-draft, that he would be exactly what he is, simply closes the book on that subject. Actually, Shelden DID NOT fill a void. He averaged a half a block a game, while the guy taken after him did the most accurate Joe Johnson impersonation in the NBA.

Are you really comparing TMac to Speedy, because both had a history of injuries? Are you really justifying the Speedy signing with references to MJ’s broken foot, or to what Camby brings to the court? MJ was MJ. Camby has been viewed as one of the most dominant defenders in the league, for almost a decade. Speedy was a career back up, with a well-established inability to stay healthy or shoot from the outside.

Where do you get that Billy “knew” that he wasn’t going to re-sign Harrington? It was pretty clear AFTER he drafted Marvin, on the heels of drafting the two Josh’s. But Harrington was baffled by the decision, and the very fact that Marvin logically projected to develop into a Harrington-type player made the move that much more confusing, given the availability of not one but two potential “franchise” PG’s.

Nobody with any real clue believed that Cassell was going to leave a playoff team, at his age, to come play for a bottom-dweller. It was well documented that he simply used the Hawks as leverage to get a two-year deal from the Clips.

Finally, Bynum only decided to pass on his college career, at U Conn, after getting very solid assurances that if he was to enter the draft, he could be certain of being a first round selection (and I watched him in the McDonald’s game, and there wasn’t a doubt that he had the size, length and athleticism to go straight to the league).

What kind of pretzel logic are you perpetuating? And, more importantly, why? What is this nonsense about Woody dictating draft decisions? That’s just BS! Are you of the belief that Billy’s body of work justifies his ongoing existence as the Hawks’ GM? Do you REALLY BELIEVE that he’s the guy to build a world championship team? Do you really believe that he is not subject to criticism for passing on the last two Rookie’s Of the Year? Do you really believe he’s going to leverage the existing assets he has, to improve this roster?

We don’t have a first rounder this summer. And, not surprisingly, based on my 36-win prediction, we’re giving a lottery pick to the Suns. I don’t see how we’re going to improve over the summer (especially if apologists like you take the position that the Hawks’ hands are tied).

I just don’t get folks who continue to pretend that there isn’t accountability here. I don’t get the energy it must take to build a fictitious case that things are as good as could be expected. I don’t get the nonsensical perspective that Billy has done a good, much less great, job.

Mind boggling.

By ConyersDawg

December 6, 2007 1:16 AM | Link to this

I don’t post in here but I was at the Detroit Pistons game Tues. night and I will never go back untill Mike Woodson is fired.

Phillips arena is dead full of buisiness guys talking buisiness and entertaining clients. We look clueless out there.

Billy should be fired for the Schelden pick alone. I know it was Detroit and they have been making everyone look silly here lately but the team quit IMO, and Mike really has no clue. I hope I’m not over reacting because we just had a bad night and that was the one game I have been to in a long time but I’m back to just getting frustrated at home watching them till Mike is gone.

Bring Paul Silas in. We actually should have fired Mike and hire Stan Van Gundy.

By Lil E

December 6, 2007 1:31 AM | Link to this

Promote Larry Drew.

By BosnianBaller

December 6, 2007 1:40 AM | Link to this

remember in the offseason even the assistant coaches wanted to leave but knight wouldn’t let them. I think it’s knight and woodson v the players and coaches and I wouldn’t be suprised if some argument or fight happens in the locker room

By RaJah

December 6, 2007 3:29 AM | Link to this

I agree with Ando on accountability. And if things at the top don’t change now, what free agent in his right mind will want to play here?

And the Atlanta Spirit? I seriously doubt they really have an interest in the Hawks. I remember seeing them on TV at the beginning of the season and they were laughing and throwing up the “A” like the team was winning a playoff game!

I mean come on .. if the owners are as broke as people here say .. don’t you think they would be doing everything possible to get it together? After all WINS = CASH right!

Oh .. and looking at the names and colors to choose from, it’s not looking too good for our new WNBA franchise either!

By Clyde

December 6, 2007 4:12 AM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY t-shirts are still available. I’m selling them eventhough its cold outside.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By smartguy

December 6, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this

BuckheadB! Great post. I am so tired of hearing the same crap, too. This is Woody’s fourth season. How much longer does he get?? We beat one of the worst teams (philly) and then fail to compete against a better team (detroit). We’re getting better?

I would love to see what our team could do with a competent head coach. I think with the players we have we could easily be a .500 team. I love our roster, I just don’t like how they’re used.

FIRE WOODY AND LET THE BIRDS FLY!

By kwooden1

December 6, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this

JJ has been struggling a bit but you can’t take much from the Detroit game. Detroit knows how to stop most scorers and make teams go to their second and third options. I see the same thing with JJ that I saw several weeks ago, he takes himself out of a rhythem early in the game by taking jump shots instead of doing the drive-draw-dish thing. He’s the number one option and teams are going to double-team him at every good opportunity. I think he will figure out what to do and get himself going pretty soon. The main issue I have is the coach has to put his players in the best positions. From what I hear during the games, it’s not happening. I think Woody and the other coaches have a good game plan, but during the game they can’t make the right moves when the plan isn’t working. Bring in another shooter during the Detroit game was an obvious move, especially in the third quarter. They should give JJ the ball at the top of the key opposed to on the side, Washington did this a lot with Arenas. It makes double-teaming harder and it gives Joe the option to right or left, drive to the rim or dish to a shooter. This and many other things suggested in this blog seem like obvious things to do but we don’t see them during the game. I will say this though, the team looks good against bad teams and bad against good teams, that is a sign of improvement. Hopefully, we can start looking OK against good teams and keep winning the games against teams at our level.

GO HAWKS!

By newkid

December 6, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

Has anyone here ever wondered why BK, if indeed the ownership situation has handcuffed him for more than two years and not allowed him to fully and effectively execute the responsibilities for which he was hired, hasn’t resigned? If, through no fault of his own, he’s not been permitted to perform the duties required to field a competitive product, why would he allow the continued tarnishing of his professional reputation so that he might continue - in the relatively short-term - to collect a check from the Spirit? Is he not concerned that the longer-term implications of a very questionable performance here in Atlanta, if indeed it’s the result of the Spirit and the courts not allowing him to demonstrate his professional acumen, could very well dramatically affect his income earning potential in the years ahead? If this is true, why would he allow these current circumstances to undermine his future in this manner? Or could he possibly think all’s fine with the product?

Along a similar thought train, why would Woody not have already resigned if he’s convinced that his failure to produce over the past 3+ years is far more the result of the owners and the GM not having provided him the needed mix of players, as opposed to his lack of coaching prowess? Is Woody so enamored with the fact that his checking account continues to reflect the monthly deposits by the Spirit that he’s willing to allow himself to be ‘abused’ by ownership’s failure to provide him the balanced roster one needs to compete in the league? Or is he - like BK - convinced that the product is just fine and he’s doing a superb job?

Is it so difficult to step off the stage if the director has consistently shown that he/she isn’t going to allow you - for whatever reasons - to perform your lines? Why not seek a lower paying position as assistant GM or assistant coach somewhere and preserve your integrity; save your reputation so that you’ll have a decent shot at securing another top spot and be given a chance at real success in the future? Where is my blind spot?

By Astro Joe

December 6, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

Ando, I did include the JJ trade which happened during the summer of ‘05. You continue to talk about the JJ trade while Colangelo was quoted since taking the Toronto job that he was instructed to “match” the Hawks offer by Sarver. What you fail to realize is that Marion is overrated. Sure he puts up great stats, but much like our local stst stuffer, his team is not convinced those stats are translating into victories at crucial times. Here’s what I recall from the ‘04-05 playoffs, JJ was a FAR superior clutch performer and game changer in that last playoff series than Marion. I’d bet a small fortune that if Nash were asked whom he would perfer, Marion or JJ, that he would choose JJ each and every time.

I agree that the team could be better with better decisions. That is pretty obvious. But the fact still remains that other teams get to fix their mistakes (and each and every GM has their own list of mistakes) while we are stuck with the hand we dealt to ourselves. It’s simply not an even playing field. Could it be better sure. But are you telling me that the Hawks have been operating on a level playing field since August, 2005? Dumars dumped Darko, his mistake. He essentially traded the #2 pick (that could have been Carmelo, Bosh or Wade) for Rodney Stuckey. BRILLIANT. Mullin trades/buys-out all of his bloated salaries while taking back comparable money, we can’t do that. Orlando is the benefactor of a lucky ping-pong ball bounce. They have wasted 3 consecutive lottery picks and had a head coach reject them within 72 hours of signing a contract. But Dwight Howard (and a $100M+ contract for Lewis) have erased all of those errors. Bulls? This franchise traded Elton Brand essentially for PJ Brown. Needed a low post scorer and traded away Aldridge for Tyrus. Needed a big SG and turned away from B. Roy. Needed low post scoring and walked away from trades for Gasol (and possibly KG). Gave away Tyson Chandler for an ancient and undersized Ben Wallace. Lakers? Ask Kobe about his GM’s successes. Knicks? Let’s move on. Bobcats? Let’s move on. Portland? The new guy is the benefactor of an owner who bought out Steve Francis’ contract and has paid for several late 1st round picks in the past few years. Where’s our think-pocketed owner?

Absolutely, BK could have done better. But he’s operating without a safety net and you seem determined to ignore the fat that we’re the only ones using a keyboard without a backspace or delete key. 29 other teams have that, we don’t.

By mavid

December 6, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

Samuel, I feel you on Montae Ellis. I wish BK had traded for a guy like him or Jose Calderon over the summer.

This team needs an engine to make all these athletic forwards “run” (both figuratively and literally). I hope Acie can do it, but it’s a lot to ask a rookie pg to handle (even one with the college pedigree of Acie).

A summer deal for Calderon or Monta could have changed so much for this team. But nope, BK sat on his hands (which I still dont know is his fault or ownerships).

By MannyT

December 6, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

I’m not going to bet the farm on either BK or Woody, but I will say that I am more comfortable with BK than Woody, because he takes some chances.

I know the FA thing has not worked out and the draft picks have mixed results. However, he is clearly better than the guy he replaced. Also, he seems to take a risk every now and then, but does so while protecting the salary cap. (Didn’t overpay for Dampier or Curry.) My biggest concern is that his buddy Woody does not seem to match BKs style.

If you bring in a bunch of guys that fit a let’s run and be athletic sytle of play—why have a coach that does not fit that style?

Woody has a strong defensive focus and the offense tends to plod along with lots of dribbling and not a lot of crisp movement. Either get him players that play that way or get a coach that plays to the talent of the team.

By Scott

December 6, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

what do you expect? Joe has no help. until he has help, he will get double and triple teams and not get any good looks. don’t blame Joe, Blame BILLY KNIGHT, oh, and maybe WOODSON for not being able put together a decent game plan or develope talent!

By MannyT

December 6, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

…all that said, I can still see a 41-41 season, assuming that Joe stops stealing Josh FG%

By mavid

December 6, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

MannyT, who do you think hires and fires the coach?

By new jersey faithful

December 6, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Well 2nites type of game has given us trouble most of this year. It’s a not so good team,so I’m sure the Hawks will play down to the competition and it will be a close game. We need this one, these are the teams we MUST beat to prove we are a winning team!!

By newkid

December 6, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Astro Joe, not disagreeing with you, but why does Billy allow himself to operate without the backspace key that the other 29 GMs have? Would you? If he’s as competent as he thinks he is, why wouldn’t he shop his wares in the open market and be done with this fiasco? Why settle?

By I.MUS WRITE

December 6, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Dark Drama…. Check yourself homie.First of all im all man,and i love women to death. You were the one who mentioned “pole smoking”- all I said was lets stick to basketball here and leave the gay references alone. Bulldogs is a gay club-so im guessing thats where all the pole smoking goes down.I’ve never been there nor wanted to go -but itz pretty hard to ignore hundreds of guyz holding hands and playing grab a*. “Intimate Detail” you are funny… questioning my manhood- You dont know me, so dont speak on me u f*** loser 1 hour with your baddest chic -and she belongs to- I.MUS -

Back to basketball i just put the trash on the curve **

By ATL Rattler

December 6, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Play Salim It’s that simple. Earlier in the season when he got more floor time because of injuries, he made a difference in the game. His defense has improved greatly over last year, which to me was his biggest knock. I’m not saying he’s the return of Joe Dumars, but his D is much improved. They need to have another consistent shoot on the floor. Marvin & Smoove are streaky at best. Chills reminds me of Bruce Bowen because his long range shots are timely, but can’t be relied upon consistently. Joe was the consistent guy before this slump he’s been in, but damn, if he’s struggling then there’s really no #2 go to guy. Hell, I don’t think Salim can be that consistent #2, but it’s funny how when we get behind significantly that’s when Woody decides to put Salim in the game, to try and cut into big leads by the other team. WHY WAIT until we’re behind??????

I’ve been a Woodson supporter, because all of the circumstances outside of his control were really having an impact on the performance of the team. However this year I am really paying attention to his coaching, & I can’t explain what’s going on with him & Salim.

By Ramon

December 6, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

Newkid, the reason BK can’t do that is because if he doesn’t see this through and some how be employed when they turn it around he will not get credit for it. He will always be remembered for taking Sheldon with the number 5 pick, and choosing Marvin (who many thought was the consensus #1) over Paul and Williams (and people forget coming out of college, Paul had an attitude problem—remember the suspension?).

So for his career, he has to stay. Other wise no one else will give him a chance. They won’t take time to place a message by his name saying the ownership and court system prevented him from doing his job. I’m not saying BK has done the best job, but I’m saying he’s hit more than he’s missed, period.

If you truly believe BK hasn’t thought of other coaching options and hasn’t prospected possible replacements than you’re wrong. The problem is what experienced coach is going to come in to be a sitting duck?

And in free agency, how many names have been thrown up on THIS board for BK to sign? Dampier, Curry, Dalembert ( he was injured most of the season last year and has never averaged 11+ rebounds), Darko, and many more have been suggested, and BK wisely chose against all of them. If BK signed Curry we would still have a problem with interior defense because Curry doesn’t do anything. Dampier is most valuable to his team when he’s on the bench and Dirk is playing the 5, I wonder why.

Ando, you stated Joe was the 4th option, however in CRUNCH time Joe was their first or second option. Amare can not shoot free throws, so Joe was always the primary or secondary option in the last quarter. That’s why Richardson shot so good that season.

Everyone said he gave up too much by giving up Diaw, but if Diaw was here he still wouldn’t be doing anything because him and Woody doesn’t mesh. Just because a player and coach doesn’t get the best out of each other doesn’t mean the coach is in wrong all the time. This same season Lebron doesn’t feel he’s getting the most from his coach, Jeff Van Gundy couldn’t get anything out of Bonzi Wells. And Larry Brown couldn’t get anything from any of the Knicks but he’s consider a great coach.

I trust BK more than any other GM the Hawks have had in a great while. But WE, the fans, see every mistakes and say this should’ve happened or shouldn’t have happened. Yet, when do we come back and say we made a bad judgment?

By Ryder

December 6, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Ando, you predicted 34 wins, not 36. Based on what I’ve seen so far this season, I’ve come around to agreeing with you.

Anyway, he overpaid for JJ because he knew that no player in his right mind would voluntarily play here, so I don’t understand why you guys don’t get that. Some GMs have to take big risk when building a franchise. So far it’s paid off in an All-Star berth. And NO JJ was not lied to. Never did I hear an interview where BK was going to bring in a veteran banger to help out. This team is attempting to stay the course, and that might be its fatal blow.

I do think there is a major problem with chemistry on this team, and it’s pretty sad considering these guys have played together for 3 years now and there is no congruency on the offensive side. Yes, that comes down to coaching. Woodson is unable to establish a rhythm and God forbid what would happen should JJ go down with any significant injury. No Ewing Theory will occur here.

What gets me is that this team is afraid to make moves unlike the Thrashers. Although they made the playoffs last year, this team constantly struggled due to a coach in Bob Hartley who made questionable lineup decisions. It led to a breakdown in chemistry and eventually his firing. Now look at them. They are playing as a unit and are winning.

If I need to take it to a baskeball level, how about the Wizards? Living here in DC i’ve seen the effect the injury to Agent Zero (the team captain, by the way) has had on the team. They continue to play as a unit and haven’t missed a beat. Why? For starters: they have a coach who has a well-defined system on offense. Everyone on the team has a good chemistry with each other, and their roster isn’t nearly as deep as Atlanta’s. Also, Eddie Jordan is using all of the players off his bench, including Andray Blatche, who is comparable to Solomon Jones, who along with Salim is buried on Woodson’s depth chart.

It’s good to live in an area where management knows how to use their talent. Too bad the same can’t be said for the idiots in Atlanta Spirit.

By fudd21

December 6, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

We can’t change what has happened in previous drafts, but I do beleive BK could have made better choices.

You look at the 04 draft. BK selects J Chills while Deng and Iggy are still on the board. I like J Chills as a sixth man and feels he serves his role well. But he is nothing more than a role player and will always be a role player. Deng and Iggy have stars written over them.

In 05 we draft Marvin and pass on Paul and D. Williams. I like Marvin as well and feel he is an excellent jump shooter, but that’s all he is a jump shooter. Again we selected a role player over 2 stars. 2 stars that happen to play PG which is the most important position on the court and PLUS a position where we had a HUGE void. You have to have someone driving the bus to get you anywhere. It’s like I said well I didn’t really get 04 right so give me a mulligan and we will try again in 05.

The 06 draft was comical to me. When I first heard that BK was considering Sheldon I thought the writer was just joking. I was shocked, mad, and frustrated to actually hear his name on draft night. I can’t really even say Sheldon is a role player. I think on a lot of teams he would be a ‘DNP’ on most nights.

The 07 draft I think we all have no complaint about the picks. I think we all wonder though if there was any truth to the whole Stoudamire rumors. My mom always said where there’s smoke, there’s fire so I for one believe there was some truth to the rumor. And if true, I would be angered that BK turned the deal down. Oh yea BK gave himself another mulligan be picking the same type player he had just picked the previous year.

With all that said, we can’t turn back the hands of time and get a redo, but I think this team could have been better handled. I still ove the Hawks and will continue to watch the games even though I get frustrated as heck with them and Woody every game.

By Ryder

December 6, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

Ramon, BK isn’t the problem. I think he’s a scapegoat because too many people can’t let the Chris Paul thing go. Here’s a newsflash, when I see Chris Paul take the Hornets to the playoffs, then i’ll be convinced.

I like the roster he’s put together. However, he’s not the problem. It’s his inability to let Woodson go that’s the problem. I think he was smart in keeping Larry Drew around in case things got out of order. Now I believe that unless the Hawks start winning this month the countdown will begin for a replacement.

People cry about not drafting Ellis or O’Bryant? Who’s to say they would thrive playing for Woodson? Who’s to say any of those players you mentioned would do anything in Woodson’s archaic offense?

It’s easy to cry about not getting Deng or Iguodala, but who’s to say they would’ve done anything? I don’t see Deng carrying Chicago anywhere this season. Philly still stinks.

I don’t have a problem at all with the roster he’s put together, I just have a problem with the guy he’s entrusted his roster to.

By Astro Joe

December 6, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

If you’re shooting over 2 or 3 people, you’re going to shoot 40% Lue says. So if you’re shooting over 2-3 people, why are we not getting 1 FREAKIN offensive rebound in a half? Because I’m thnking that menas there are 1-2 open teammates to crash the board. Or here’s a crazy idea, pass the ball to those 1-2 open teammates for a better shot and if the can’t hit it, put in Salim or someone without a conscious who will shoot until they make it and force the oppsoing team to stop the double/triple teaming. Sorry, that is just plain stupid, to think that this team is rendered ineffective as an offensive unit because our top scorer is double/tripled on most offensive possessions. Can we PLEASE get a new coach? Where is Terry Stotts (my goodness, did I just write that)?

By newkid

December 6, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Thanks Ramon. You seem to be of the opinion that BK, unfettered by decisions that might be made be others to the contrary, has an indefinite period of time to wait for someone (the Spirit?) to allow him a backspace key here in Atlanta. The only thing he currently controls is whether he decides TODAY to say enough already. Tomorrow’s decision belongs to Spirit, not to BK; and if he’s indeed ‘bending over’ (sorry I Mus & Dark Drama) at the behest of the Spirit, wouldn’t he be foolish to think they’re going to continue to use vaseline? Donald Trump is fond of talking about the ‘terms of the deal’. BK’s best chance of determining the ‘terms’ of his eventual demise here in Atlanta is to act today, and not wait for circumstances to result in the Spirit acting tomorrow in a manner that isn’t necessarily in BK’s best long-term interest.

When we look back - in a decade on so - on Condi’s tenure as Secretary of State, what we’ll say (without equivocation) is that she failed to make the deals that could have advanced our longer-term interests in the world. No one will ask to what extent might here failures be as a result of the neocons ‘movement’ or such circumstances. On the other hand, we’ll say about Colin Powell (as we already are) that he dumped those b******* on his own terms, and placed himself in an enviable position going forward. Powell gave himself his own backspace key. Isn’t BK sort of - by default - deciding he’d prefer being Condi without the backspace key more than he prefers being Colin with the backspace key? Powell, whether out of principle or pragmatism, gave himself a chance (by ACTING rather than waiting) to define his future in terms he dictated. Poor Billy; poor Woody.

By HB Ando

December 6, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By HB Ando

December 6, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

Man, nothing worse than spending 10 minutes crafting a post and then hitting the tab key and having it inexplicably clear the comments’ box. I don’t have the energy to re-craft.

Oh well, the folks I had directed it to will be happy I didn’t bother…..

By HB Ando

December 6, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

NOTE: John Hollinger just posted a playoff predictor. I tend to think Hollinger’s numbers are pointless. But some of you will be happy to know that he projects the Hawks into the 8th seed, with 37 wins. David Stern must be very proud of the red-headed stepchild that is the Eastern Conference……..

Ryder, part of the post that was lost a few minutes ago included a correction. I predicted 34 wins last year. I predicted 36 this year. I’ll try and go back and confirm this. But, we’re actually on pace for 34 right now…..

By MannyT

December 6, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

Ryder I like the way you broke it down at 11:22. So mavid there’s your answer. If BK and Woody weren’t so close, Woody would be gone and BK would be seen as a (not great, but) better GM.

I think the record will improve because something will have to give by the end of January. Either the team gets better or someone gets moved. Someone includes Woody.

Clearly the Wizards coaches learned more about adjustments when Nacho chipped his knee last season than the Hawks did when JJ went out. Now that learning is paying off for them.

For all that chatter in May/June, I think the general agreement is that BK did a good job selecting Horford & Law.

Ando do you have to pay Clyde a royalty for that 12:04 post ;-)

By randy

December 6, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

AstroJoe, I agree. But seems like the only open person is Josh Smith because he stands behind the arc so much. I know he is a slasher, but he needs to mix it up in the middle more because they will double Joe everytime if the only threat is Josh shooting a 3 and will depend on the center to stop Josh if he decides to slash. I mean I thought he was working on his Post up game in the offseason, I haven’t seen him post someone up once this season. All this seems so obvious to me, anyone else notice this??

By mavid

December 6, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

lol Ando, the ginger Eastern Conference has no soul! (c) South Park

Jefferson is gonna have a monster night tonight, but Id love to see a little AL rivarly develop!

By Ryder

December 6, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

Thanks, MannyT. I hate to talk about how other teams play on the Hawks blog, but it pains me to no end every time I see the Wizards move flawlessly in transition and wonder to myself, “That should be the Hawks’ offense.” It can move a grown man to tears…

….Astro Joe, I understand the Stotts comment. Had you said Lon Krueger, then I’d wonder if it had anything to do with the weather.

….HB Ando, I read Hollinger’s predictions, and they are as meaningless as the ESPN folks who picked UGA to finish 3rd in the SEC basketball conference this year. I don’t see how this team can man up and win games they aren’t supposed to win.

Ok, look at it like this. For the Hawks to win 37 games, meaning they’d have to win 30 more games this year they’d have to win the following:

10 games against the lower echelon of the league (Minn, Phil, Memphis, Charlotte, NY, Seattle -oops already lost to them)

10 games against the teams on the lower rung of the playoff scale (clippers, Pacers, Golden State, Sacramento, Wizards -oops already lost to them too)

10 “how in the h*ll did they win those” types of games (Houston, New Jersey-lost to them already, Cleveland, Lakers, Chicago, Milwaukee, Dallas)

See what I mean? Figure in they’ll get crushed against the top echelon (San Antonio, Detroit, Boston) and you have to figure out who can the Hawks beat, right now?

37 wins without some major luck? Can’t see it happening.

By mavid

December 6, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Manny, I get what you’re saying. But, it IS on BK to make a coaching change if necessary. That is a GMs job just as much as it is to get players.

The fact that BK can’t let go of Woody b/c they are too “close”, means that he isn’t doing his job well. It doesnt matter why he won’t do what is clearly necessary (theres a rumor out there that Adelman could have been had last year), the fact that he hasnt done it, means he is messing up.

By Tap Daddy

December 6, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Ryder I agree with you when it comes to watching other teams then watching the horrible offense Woodson has our team run. I watched Utah play the other night and with all the cutting and screening Sloan has them guys doing, they almost looked like a college team..That type of system is what we need in the half court, especially since we dont have a bunch of great one on one players, other than Joe I really dont trust any of those guys to consistenly make plays individually in the half court when our opponents defense is set…..

By I.MUS WRITE

December 6, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Im really intrested in seeing how the hawks play tonight. Minnesota is the worst team in the league, but they had a 20 point lead on us last game. A playoff team doesnt play down to their competition,they close weak teams out.The next two games are must win games,we have to take care of the basement teams

By Mike

December 6, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe One Helluva of Post. HB is convinced that BK is solely responsible for the current state of the Hawks Franchised. Will somebody remind HB that his Boy Belkin is responsible like the rest of the Spirit for BK and Woody being hired? The way he tip toes around issues make you thinks he’s some kind of trap tease artist. When you look around the league, you can easily find GMs that had bad or terrible drafts, I ‘m not BK defender, but he has amass the best group of talent this organization has had since the Steve Smith era.

Joe easy going laid back attitude is his biggest problems. Guys are jabbing, holding and using every trick in the book to defend him, but he’s such a nice guy he never complain to refs, that’s gotta stop, even if he has to get a couple technical foul. He doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt when there is obvious contact. Long story short, “JOE IS JUST TO DAM NICE.” He gotta let the refs know that not only do he expect, but he demand they treat him like an All-Star when he’s fouled. Doesn’t it just drive you crazy when some low foyer player fouls Joe and he lets it slide goes back down like it’s no big deal hoping the ref will eventually make a foul call? The way Joe gets fouled he should be going to the free throw line 10 to 15 times a game.

Nothing will change until Joe start getting in the ref face and start demanding respect. You can’t blame that on Woody. Joe also gotta believe in his guys when he’s getting double and triple team. He’s been pressing really hard, and that’s not like Joe. It is time to pass the torch to Acie. He’s a born leader.

Lastly if you take away Detroit, Boston, and Orlando in the Eastern Conference, the rest of teams records are not that much better than the Hawks, and that’s with Joe struggling. So no way do I throw this team under bus. This is a very young team loaded with talent. I think putting Acie in the starting line-up and bring Marvin off the bench will help Joe out. I know Chill is our sixth man, but it might be better to start Chill and bring Marvin off the bench. Chill is slasher that will go to the hold, all Marvin wants to do is shoot jump shots.

HB I know you’re going to let me have it, but it’s all good cause I’m just a neophyte on the blogs anyway.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By jlewis

December 6, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Fellow Posters and Sekou,

If you look at JJ’s history besides last season of coming off of a summer with the dream team, he has always started slow. If ATL can hang in where they are now, before the All-Star break the cat will find his touch and really start balling.

By Ryder

December 6, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

As you can tell I don’t have anything else to do at work except blog all day…… ….jlewis I do believe that JJ will get into a groove as well, but in the meantime he should focus on being more of a distributor. That way defenses can’t just focus on him with double and triple teams waiting for him to shoot. If he can pass the ball more often (which he has done before) then he can keep them honest and get himself some better looks during the course of the game.

It’s frustrating to see that Atlanta could be so much better with someone who can actually lead this team from the sidelines.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 6, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

J Kidd is on the trading blocks supposedly.Im just wondering how much of our young talent NJ would want for him? Chillz/T Lue/ AJ/Sheldon If Nj would accept this deal,this would be good for both sides.Atl gets the veteran PG we need and NJ gets 2 PG’s with expiring contracts.

By randy

December 6, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

HAHA, you guys love to put players like AJ, TLue, Lorenzen, Speedy and Shelden into trade talks. Like if you throw enough trash at a team you can get an all star like Jason Kidd. Not gonna happen—have to give up something big like Josh Smith. But doubt Kidd is gonna be traded, all rumors.

By Chip Crain

December 6, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

I write for the Memphis Grizzlies blog text to be linked and I write a pre-game and usually a post game commentary on every Grizzlies game.

I would like to link any comments you have about the game to our blog so our readers can find out what the opponents think of the game. If you would like to link to our thoughts that would be very kind.

Chip Crain http://3shadesofblue.blogspot.com

By Tiger Woo

December 6, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Think the Hawks wish they kept Stephen Jackson now? He would fit in nicely in the Hawks rotation - take some pressure off JJ.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/paul_forrester/12/04/jackson.notes/index.html

By Tiger Woo

December 6, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Even Jason “The Jet” Terry would fit in nicely - coming off the bench (or starting). A huge upgrade from AJ, TLue, even Salim.

Typical Hawks … bring a player on board for a year or two - then dump them. At least now it seems like they’re trying to keep the current group together and let them establish some continuity.

By Astro Joe

December 6, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

newkid, sorry, I just saw your question about BK shopping his wares around the league. At best, he could land an assistant GM job, which is how he got here in the first place. Even the media darling, Kiki V. (who traded 3 1st round picks for the oft-injured and unskilled Kenyon Martin) has essentialy been unemployed despite his pleasing personality.

But I also think that BK is one of those guys who would never quit. Without getting too political, I think he was raised in an era when folk like him had far more to overcome than the lack of a “delete key”. Whatever obstacles he faces now are insignificant to the barriers faced by the people who likely shaped his life during the 60s/70s. When you have that kind of back-drop, quitting 1 of 30 highly prestigious jobs is not an option that will allow you to sleep comfortably at night.

I think you protest the handcuffs placed on you by your bosses by refusing to conduct interviews. I think you refuse to “lie through your teeth” by trying to sell that ths team is operating on an even playing field. Instead, you make your boss, Bernie Mullen, lose all personal credibility by being the mouth-piece for this failing operation. That’s how you protest without insulting those who paved a way for your lofty position as an NBA GM.

By JerryWest

December 6, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

* AstroJoe *

Great comments. I opened a thread with your comments at Hawksquawk. Check it out.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=homecourt&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=

By I.MUS WRITE

December 6, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

Randy…….Tlue -AJ and Lowright have expiring contracs,which is very valuable to alot of teams. Chills is a solid player and Shendon is……. ahm %#!*(_^

J Kidd dialed it in at 2 in the morning complaining of migranes—- funny how his migranes popped up right after he was denied an extension. This could be a problem -if j kidd is disgruntled and is forcing a trade-hell why not here?

By newkid

December 6, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Joe, you can’t really believe that BK is ‘making’ Bernie (his boss) do anything of the sort, can you? I suppose I could see the argument that he’s decided that the potential loss of $$$ is not - to him - worth a set of principles that may be more important to some of us lower middle class folks than him (have you read Bill Rhoden’s ‘Forty Million Dollar Slaves’?), but he’s not ‘directing’ his bosses any more than I’m ‘ruling my roost’ at home. From afar, if I’m an owner of one of the other NBA franchises I gotta believe I’d recognize that the fiasco called the Spirit is completely dysfunctional, and I’d have far more respect for a GM who decides to fly that coup than I would for one who agreed to continue to go without the backspace/delete key so that he doesn’t take a 40% - 50% hit on a salary that’s probably already sinful when compared to that of most of us who sometimes slide through the turnstiles. Unless, as an owner, I wish to ‘run things’ myself, why would I want a GM whose character is such that he’s gonna allow me to subject his ‘private parts’ to a pair of plyers without a much as a hint of pain so that ‘mom & nem’ won’t see him as an idiot for ‘settling’ for $500K per annum as a principled Asst GM rather than the $1 M as a ‘GM in title only’. If given a choice, I’ll take Colin over Condi under ALMOST any circumstance.

By Astro Joe

December 6, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

newkid, some eat watermelon in public, some don’t. I’m about 10 years too young to knock either side so I choose not to sit in judgement. I just appreciate the debate. I had that same Condi/Colin discussion over Turkey Day weekend and I sided with Colin, although he will never “say” anything… his resignation said enough. But I don’t think the owners are asking BK to go to the UN and stake his life work and credibility on misinformation. They’re just asking BK to “wait until the divorce is settled”. Don’t you think that is at least as different as a grenade and an atomic bomb?

And you’re right, BK can’t tell his boss what to do, but I definitely think he has told his bosses what he won’t do… and that is to serve as the defacto salesman for this franchise.

By Rocco Malone

December 6, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

Here is the first problem.WOODY WOODY WOODY.The second problem is the team lacks chemistry. I have noticed this and it makes me sick. When a player is fouled or falls to the ground, there are no other team teammates there to pick him up or give him a hand. They look at the him and keep walking; this makes me sick. Here is the bottom line;the players who do not like Joe or who have an attiude problem can go to another team. I ready to win now, right now. I trades need to be made to make this happen then do it. Fire Woody and Billy, get someone in here that is ready to win today. Joe is great, Marvin is good, J-Smooth is inconsistent, Shelden is the land-lord, J-Chill is good, Speedy needs to go, T-Lue is our vet that we need, ZaZa is (fill in the blank), Al and Acie need to be here forever, Mario is a true hustler, Salim is instant offense and need more mins, AJ(fill in the blank). The other players not listed need to move to a new career.

By newkid

December 6, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Joe, no the Spirit can’t dispatch Billy to the UN or Middle East to do the impossible, but they do indeed appear to be asking him to do what most here have roundly said for several years he’s having just about as much success doing as Condi is getting Israel and the Palestineans to agree a 2-state solution. He’s being asked to prepare a stupendous (don’t you love Clyde Frazier’s vernacular?) meal that we’ll all rush through the turnstiles to eat (and pay dearly for the pleasure of doing so), yet - even by your own admission - ‘they’ are literally forbidding him buying the groceries. Seems to me few other than chumps go in for that sort of thing. Some chumps DO get paid quite handsomely, don’t they.

Oh, jerrywest, how about a little ‘full disclosure’ over there on Hawksquawk my man. Remember “and now you know the rest of the story” don’t you? Just kidding jerry.

By Ryder

December 6, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

I swear I’m going to punch the next person who suggests a trade. Obviously the drought must’ve gotten to many of you because Bk is not the kind of person to make a deal for the sake of just doing something different. Such a lack of sense by some of you.

BK is not going to trade anyone on this team. He’s going to live and die by whom he brought in and to make a trade would be admitting a mistake. He’s a proud individual and it’s his arrogance that could become his downfall.

Anyway, hope Atlanta can actually blow out a team one of these days, might as well be tonight. Think anyone on TNT will notice considering the game’s right down the street from their studio?

By Clyde

December 6, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

Hey I will be at the game tonight. Holla at me at the Jack Daniels Bar at half time.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By terrell barron

December 6, 2007 8:35 PM | Link to this

Play Chill more, play Marvin less.

By terrell barron

December 6, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this

The lead was 19 and now it is down to 4. I knew they would blow that lead, I just knew it! I guess I’ll watch Denver and Dallas on TNT for a while. WE BETTER NOT LOSE THIS FREAKIN GAME!

By Steve T

December 6, 2007 8:51 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith is untouchable. For those who wants to trade Josh, I think you need to think again.

If I were Woody, I would be cussing somebody out.

By randy

December 6, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

Up 16 after 1st, Up 13 at half, down 6 after 3rd. The chokemaster at work, can’t hold a lead. Same ol Hawks. Noone is playing worth a damn except Josh Smith. What a joke. Thats right Woody, don’t call a timeout or anything when they are on a 10-0 run. Just sit there with your face in your hands. FIRE WOODY!! HAWKS SUCK!!

By Tiger Woo

December 6, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

Minnesota 27 - Hawks 8 in the 3rd Quarter - embarrasing.

The Hawks play like a bunch of senior citizens.

By coachb

December 6, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

Steve Smith should be named head coach of the Hawks

I am watching the Hawks blow a 19 points lead by taking bad shots and playing one on one ball. Joe Johnson is playing like he want to be traded. He has that sleep walking look on his face. Joe is pounding the ball on the floor while his teammates watch. Coach Woodson is up working his heart out when they have a lead. When the team is behind he’s on the bench without a clue. WE NEED A CHANGE in the coaching staff. Coach Woodson is standing with his arms crossed with no help for his team.

By What is going on

December 6, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this

Sekou, please write a blog telling us what is going on, this is terrible. I have never seen such poor play. Horford is the only one that can rebound? Please Sekou explain what is going on with this team, why do they play so poorly?

By Tiger Woo

December 6, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

Joe saved the day!

However, the Hawks have some real issues to deal with.

Corey Brewer - 18 rebounds? Minnesota - 20 offensive rebounds? Does anybody know how to box out?

By THE Hawks Fan

December 6, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

That was the Hawks season!!!!! Lose and the Season is over. Miracle shot and we are on our WAY!!!!!!!! Way to come through Jo Jo Jo JOEEEEEEEE Johnson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Ryder

December 6, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this

WHAT A SHOT BY JJ! He earned his nickname with that shot!

Wow that’s the way to make it happen. A win is a win in their book, and what a way to snap out of a funk JJ!

Best of all, I SAW THE SHOT ON TNT! Yes Ladies and Gentlemen, the Hawks finally made national TV! Sure Charles Barkley talked about how disapointed he was in them but who cares? A win is a win?

JJ’s shot just saved Woodson’s job.

By RANDY

December 6, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

Sorry, but I can’t get excited over that last second win. Blowing a 19 point lead is nothing to get excited about. I was almost hoping for a loss, so the Woody era would end sooner. Horford is awesome, Josh is really starting to turn it up, and Joe was decent, but a bittersweet victory over a 2 win team for sure. WOODY NEEDS TO GO!

By randy

December 6, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Sekou, grow a pair and ask Spirit management when Woody is going to be fired and write an article on it. This is pitiful. Our voices aren’t being heard. All I hear on this board is Fire Woody and its like the Spirit doesn’t care. If they have to fire BK to fire Woody, so much the better, they both have done a horrible job. I mean how excited can you get over barely escaping defeat of a 2 win Minn team at home?

By The Dark Karma

December 6, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

Well that certainly settles it. One believes that three brain cells is sufficient for brain f*******. This does not surprise me when considering the source. And then there is the constant referral to perversion that once again blows away both his alibi and credibility. But then how can one who must name himself by calling another such a ridiculous name have credibility anyway?

The other apparently is intent on proving that what was said is indeed true. Worse, he writes strange and unintelligible parting shots. Perhaps he should borrow a brain cell from the first idiot. After all, he appears to have a spare or two. Otherwise, he should change his name to IMUS NOT BE ALLOWED TO WRITE.

But enough of those degenerates. Their primitive banter is amusing for a short time. That time is over.

By THE Hawks Fan

December 6, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

Coach Woodson is not going anywhere. I actually thought he did a decent job after the PLAYERS had p** this game away. Im sure the Atl Spirit and Sekou will take into consideraton the thoughts of them on this Board. LOL! Really I just want the Hawks to win, I dont care how who what when where, just win. They lose 5 or 6 in a row then I will get p**. Long as they hang around .500 Im cool. Going from 1 of the worst team in the league to a play off team is going take alot.GOOOOOO HAWKS!!!!

By MJ3

December 6, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

I’m p** that they blew that lead in the 3rd, but a win is a win, folks. I love all the hating on Woody around here. Further proof of the dumbassed logic that prevails among so many people around here - “When they lose, it’s because of Woody. When they win, it’s in spite of him.” Can’t have it both ways, fellas.

And Randy,

Go shove it up your a**. Who the hell do you think you are to call out Sekou like that? He does his job reporting on the Hawks every damned day, and he does it damned well. You don’t like it, you apply for the job. See how far you get in the interview process. Jackass.

By terrell barron

December 6, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

Give up an easy layup, retake the lead, and then give up another easy layup. PITIFUL

By randy

December 6, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

MJ3, I wasn’t aware of your man-crush on Sekou. Be careful tho, your boyfriend might get jealous…

And yes we do win in spite of Woody. Either that or our players are too stupid to even play basketball. Constant missed assignment leading to easy layups when the game is on the line. 3 years of blowing leads. 20 turnovers a game.

Maybe if you would watch the game instead of going down on your gay lover, you might realize how dysfunctional this team is.

By ray

December 6, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

That was probably easily the most disgusting win I’ve seen this team get…at least this season. I mean really, I’m not very happy about it..and THAT my friends is baaaaaad.

Where’s Joe? Well, he certainly showed up in the last 2.3 seconds, huh? He didn’t have an awful game, but he didn’t have a good one either. At least he went out and scored 20 with 9 boards.

Marvin Williams. You walk around like you have a back problem. Instead of walking around with your caboose sticking out, how about use it to box out some guys on the boards. What a novel idea, eh? And by the way, next time get a body on Corey Brewer will ya? The guy got 18 freakin’ boards tonight and I blame YOU. That’s just crazy! How the hell does Corey friggin’ Brewer get 18 rebounds?! And Marvin gets only FOUR?! 6’9, 230-get your a$$ to the GLASS! Yeah, I saw you scored 20 points. You also choked at the free throw line when we really needed them. Also, try a little harder to finish on breaks. Take that damn ball, c** it back and slam it home. Bet Dominique could still show you how it’s done. We’re playing “And 1” here, not “get fouled, miss the shot, choke at the line.”

You know, AJ isn’t fast and certainly isn’t flashy. But he’s playing almost no turnover type of ball. Good thing too, because Acie wasn’t having a good night. Along with AJ, Smoove and Horford were the glue tonight. There’s no way we should have almost lost that game. Absolutely shameful. The way we played the second half (it really started at the end of the second quarter) we actually should have lost.

I’ll be snookered. Josh Smith really is hitting shots. It still ain’t pretty, but lately he has been hitting one jumper after another. Or at least 2 out of 3 or so. If he keeps this up, I say pay him what the hell he wants and trade somebody else. One thing is for sure, he is making the plays that are keeping us in games. More than JJ even. In fact, without Josh making that late play, JJ wouldn’t have had a chance to make his game-winner. And those blocks he gets. Damn, as much as I say those aren’t game changers…I still love to see them.

Horford is a stud. Can’t say it enough. 15 rebounds. Some good, gritty defense. He fights for those rebounds. Big Al, please show Marvin a thing or two. For some reason, I think he thought he got his rebounds for the season when he had those two 10/12 rebound games.

By ray

December 6, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

MJ3, actually that makes perfect sense. Woody is having just that kind of effect. Here lately we win due to 2 or 3 players stepping up. It’s despite the fact that Woody said we’d run and already we’re right back to playing a game we don’t excel at: walk-it-up half court offense. Hell, we almost lost tonight doing that crap. So yeah, we won in spite of him. As for losing, well it speaks for itself. But then, you obviously don’t feel that way. Maybe you think Billy Knight is a genius too, I don’t know.

Uh…what is with all the sexual comments here lately? I mean really….

By ray

December 6, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this

I.Mus, Kidd is always on the block. I wouldn’t read very much into it. He’d never want to come here anyway. He’s better off with Jefferson and Carter. Although I’m SURE Marcus Williams would endorse that trade, heh heh heh..

By dookie

December 6, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

Nice post Ray, you hit the nail on the head about Marvin. My dad calls him “Marvin shuffle”, I guess cuz he shuffles his bones around on the floor like a lazy bumb. That dude needs some power, everytime he goes to the hoop, the ball ends up in the 5th row and his body sprawled on the floor like he just got hit by a mac truck. He gets the foul, but it isn’t pretty.
Acie hasn’t shown me anything yet, I am still waiting to see a leader in him but I don’t see it yet. Its too early to really form an opinion, but unless he improves dramatically we will be looking for another point guard in a couple years. I truly hope he does become the floor general I think he can be.

Rough game, but atleast instead of blowing leads and losing, they are blowing leads and winning. I guess thats an improvement.

By MJ3

December 6, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

randy,

Actually, I’m a woman. Or did you only think men were allowed to post here?

So you can stop being a homophobic jackass now.

By roan st

December 6, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

Ray, I feel the same damn way about marvin. He just seems so lethargic/lazy to ever be a great basketball player. Have you noticed before tonight he had kind of went into a 5 or 6 game disappearing act. At the beggining of the year I was thinking he was starting to come around and then all of a sudden he vanishes. His scoring went from around 18 per game to 15 and suddenly he was regressing instead of getting better. And like you said can he not ever finish and get the and 1. I have never seen a guy take it to the hole so many times, get fouled, and never even come close to making the basket. He just doesn’t have that fire like JS and his athletic ability is nowhere near what it was advertised coming out of college. I’m afraid marvin has just about hit his ceiling and he will be about a 17 or 18 point scorer and below average defender and rebounder. I was actually one who suggested on here at the start of the season thet maybe we should trade JS and keep marvin. I now beg for repentance as long as JS continues playing the way he has been the last few games. Not jacking up all of those crazy jump shots and attacking the basket. Marvin just ain’t got what it takes to be a great player and JS does if he will keep playing to his strengths.

By randy

December 6, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

MJ3, that explains everything. They should have a rule allowing only men to post here. When Sekou starts writing for the Atlanta Pink Panthers or whatever the new Atlanta women’s basketball team is gonna be called, you can share your opinion all you want.

By randy

December 6, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

I am still trying to figure out who is better Marvin or JChill. They both can completely disappear out there. When Zaza gets back from his headache, they should try Zaza at C, Horford at PF, and JS at SF cuz they are getting taken advantage of inside.

By Ryder

December 6, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

Regardless of what happened,* randy*, a win’s a win. I want Woodson gone as bad as you do, but we all need to realize he’s going nowhere, management has no balls. As I said earlier, JJ’s shot saved Woodson’s job, and he knows it.

OH, and Sekou has asked BK about getting rid of Woodson many times, only to be rebuked unfairly. Besides, BK thinks he’s above telling the fans and hard working guys like Sekou anything.

MJ3, I don’t think he’s done much to make this team play as a unit. I just can’t see Atlanta going anywhere with him as coach. If you see something I don’t, please let me know. It’s just that after 3 plus years this team still looks lost on the court.

Everyone else, let’s not turn this into the Falcons blog with all the name calling ok? This is the most intelligent blog in the AJC, unless someone starts talking about trades.

Clyde, where can I get a t-shirt?

By Glutton for Punishment

December 6, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this

That’s a good one MJ3. I was thinking the same thing about what Randy wrote.. He really looks even more foolish….

By Matt

December 7, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

Randy, I got some advice for you - I wouldn’t let your wife or girlfriend know you think that way. And if you don’t have a wife or girlfriend, maybe you should reread your last response to MJ3 and ask yourself why that is. In any case, sexist BS like that has no place on this blog. That woman is entitled to her opinion, same as everyone else here.

Let’s all please take Ryder’s advice by keeping the gay-bashing (which seems to be a running theme around here recently) and woman-bashing to a minimum, and just stick talk about basketball, ok?

On that note, the Hawks looked like they collapsed in the third quarter and were strong the rest of the night. That is generally a sign of poor player focus, which seems to be a recurring problem with this team. I seriously think Woody should be considering just making Mario West a default starter at the beginning of the 2nd half in every single game, because third quarter collapses just happen too much with this team, and it’s always due to a lack of focus and energy.

That being said, JJ came through when it counted tonight, and proved again why teams write their defenses up with him in mind. Hopefully, that shot will shock him out of his shooting funk and back to last year’s form, and if we’re REALLY lucky, it’ll give this whole team the adrenaline boost they need.

I still think Woody should get canned, but I doubt that’ll happen anytime soon. C’est la vie.

GO HAWKS!!!

By buckhead Benny

December 7, 2007 12:44 AM | Link to this

I am going to finish that last comment since my damm computer battery went out. WHERE IS THE BAR SET FOR THE HAWKS? THERES TOO MUCH TALENT FOR A 4TH YEAR COACH NOT TO BE MESSING AT THIS POINT IN THE YEAR.

25 PERCENT OF THE SEASON IS HERE- REMEMBER WOODSON HAD THESE GUYS SHOW UP A MONTH EARLY FOR PRACTISE-

THIS IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS FOR A 4TH YEAR COACH AND 1 MONTH EARLY PRACTISE FOR THE HAWKS THIS YEAR?

HELL NO!! YOU CAN’T TELL ME THERES NOT A BETTER VETERAN COACH AT THERE THAT CAN HELP THESE YOUNG PLAYERS OUT.

WOODSON IS A GOOD ASSISTANT BUT HE IS OVER HIS HEAD. WE ARE ALL DIE HARD BASKETBALL FANS AND HAWKS FANS.

WATCHING THE HAWKS PLAY IS LIKE WATCHING YOUR LITTLE BROTHER GET BEAT UP AT THE PLAYGROUND. IT MAKES YOU SICK TO YOUR STOMACH AND YOU WANT TO CRY FOR HELP.

THIS IS NOT GOOD BASKETBALL- THERE ARE BETTER COACHES THAT CAN DEVELOP TALENT AND CALL BETTER PLAYS AND MOTIVATE. THESE ARE ALL THE QUALITIES THAT A GOOD COACH WILL DO.

ITS NOT THAT WOODSON IS A BAD GUY HE’S JUST A BAD HEAD COACH.

By reese

December 7, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

First of all, good win tonight. I don’t care if it was a last second shot. A win is a win.

I hope Josh Smith convinced everyone tonight that he is one of the cornerstones of this franchise and therefore a person to build around.

Don’t act as though he is doing something new now. He is playing the same aggressive style of basketball. His shot is starting to fall now. Again, he led the team in blocks, pts and tied for the lead in steals. Most importantly, he continues to dictate the pace of the game. This was definitely evident in the first half and he picked it back up in the last qtr. He grabbed rebounds and dribbled down court. He grabbed rebounds and threw long passes. He praised Al Horford when he did the same.

Did anyone else notice how Marvin Williams was passed the ball in the second to last possession by the hawks. Marvin didn’t even dribble towards the basket. He dribbled towards Josh Smith and passed the ball to JS. Josh dribbled into the lane and made the bank shot over the defender. That play alone should wake up those few who still bring up Josh Smith’s name in any trade talk discussions and wish to build around Marvin Williams.

Josh Smith wants to be the man. Not the man sitting next to the man, whose sitting next to the man, whose sitting next to the man, whose sitting next to the man.

What does Joe Johnson need to do. Keep shooting, Keep passing and Keep dribbling. He needs to stay aggressive. Every player will go through scoring droughts. Just be sure to keep up the other facets of your game. I like the fact that he had 7 rebounds and 2 steals to go along with his 21 points. I can live with Joe Johnson taking 21 shots as long as he is doing other things to keep us in the game.

Did anyone else notice that the hawks were running in the first half and were making bad passes. However, there were 3 to 4 guys running and the ball just happened to bounce into one of the other hawks player’s hand who was hustling down court.

My main problems with tonights game is that both Josh Smith and Joe Johnson played too many minutes. Salim and Solomon Jones played to few minutes. I don’t know when Woodson is going to get confidence in using his bench to change the flow of the game. Especially in the third qtr when we only scored 8 points.

By Lil E

December 7, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

Promote Larry Drew!

By cp

December 7, 2007 1:16 AM | Link to this

Yea its hard to get happy about a win like this. This team plays with absolutely no energy. I watched part of the game at work and me and a co worker were talking about the lack of movement on offense. First thing he said was pound pound pound the ball and taking bad shots. Woodson really needs to let someone draw up some plays or something or just re tool his lack of offensive sets. This team has too much talent in my opinion not to be a better team.

By buckhead Benny

December 7, 2007 1:32 AM | Link to this

I TAKE IT BACK ABOUT WATCHING THE HAWKS IS LIKE WATCHING YOUR LITTLE BROTHER GET BEAT UP ON THE PLAYGROUND. IT’S WORSE!! WATCHING THE HAWKS- AT LEAST ON THE PLAYGROUND YOU CAN JUMP IN AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. WATCHING THE HAWKS YOUR HELPLESS AND ITS MORE PAINFUL BECAUSE YOU CAN’T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT AND BILLY KNIGHT SEEMS TO BE ROOTING FOR HIS FRIEND MORE THAN THE FANS. EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE HAPPY WITH JUST A WIN.

I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHERE IS THE BAR SET??? THIS SHOULD BE UNACCEPTABLE FOR ANYONE.

I JUST WANT TO SETTLE THIS ABOUT WOODSON ONCE AND FOR ALL TO ALL OF THE BLOGGERS OUT THERE.

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU EVER SAW A GOOD PLAY CALL BY COACH WOODSON? HOW ABOUT AFTER A CALLED TIME OUT? CAN ANYONE RECALL ANY PLAY THAT THE HAWKS HAVE THAT ARE SPECIFIC TO ANY OF OUR PLAYERS?

THERE IS NO PICK AND ROLL FOR THIS TEAM- THERE ARE NO SET PLAYS THAT FEED OFF OF THE STRENGTH OF OUR PLAYERS OR THE MISMATCHES OF THE OTHER TEAM. THERE IS SOME PASSING WHICH BY DEFAULT YOU GOING TO HAVE TO DO IN BASKETBALL AT SOME POINT, BUT THIS IS JUST IMPROV BASKETBALL AT ITS BEST. WHEN THEY RUN INTO SMART GOOD TEAMS THEY ALWAYS GET BEAT. THAT IS A SIGN OF A BAD COACH.

YOU GUYS REMEMBER THE PLAY PJ CARLESMO CALLED IN THE SONICS GAME FOR WILKINS AFTER A TIME OUT. THE POINT GUARD DROVE THE LANE DREW ALL OF THE DEFENDERS AND WILKINS WAS BEYOND THE ARC WAITING FOR THE PASS WITH HIS FEET ALREADY SET IN THE CORNER AND HE DRILLED A THREE. THAT WAS A GOOD CALL. WHEN HAVE WE EVER HAD THAT DONE.

JOE JOHNSON TONIGHT WAS A GREAT SHOT AND I AM SURE IT WAS CALLED TO GET JOE THE BALL, BUT HELL JOE MADE THAT PLAY NOT WOODSON. THAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IMPROV BASKETBALL.

SOMETIMES YOUR GOING TO HAVE TO DO IT BUT YOU CAN’T RELY ON JOE TO BAIL US OUT. THERE HAS TO BE MANY MORE PLAYS FOR JOE AND FOR J. SMITH AND MARVIN AND THE REST OF THE TEAM!!!

REMEMBER THE FRATELLO DAYS WITH WILKINS, WHITMAN, WILLIS, D. RIVERS. THAT WAS GOOD BASKETBALL. NOW I KNOW THIS IS NOT BY ANY MEANS THE SAME TEAM. THEY HAD PERSONALIZED PLAYS FOR EACH PERSON. THERE WERE SCREENS DESIGNED FOR RANDY WHITMAN WHO WAS PROBABLY THE SLOWEST PLAYER IN THE NBA. HE GOT OPEN THE BECAUSE OF IT AND MADE THE OPEN SHOT. DOMONIQUE THE WHOLE OTHER TEAM GUARDED HIM, BUT HE HAD PLAYS THAT WERE DESIGNED TO ISOLATE HIM AND HIS DEFENDER. WILLIS HAD PLAYS THAT WOULD GET HIM IN THE PAINT AND DO THAT LITTLE HOOK JUMPER. THESE GUYS IMPROV FROM TIME TO TIME BUT THEY CALLED PLAYS TO THE GUYS THAT WERE HOT AND STAYED WITH THE GUYS THAT WERE HOT.

I WANT THE HAWKS TO DO WELL BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU I HAVE WATCHED THEM NOW FOR 4 YEARS WITH WOODSON AND I HAVE HELD MY BREATH DUE TO MOST OF THE PLAYERS BEING NEW AND MIKE WOODSON BEING NEW. THIS IS IT. HE DOESN’T HAVE IT. ANY BUSINESS WOULD HAVE FIRED THIS GUY BY NOW. HE DOESN’T MOTIVATE AND HE DOESN’T HAVE THESE GUYS IN POSITION TO WIN. HE DOESN’T KNOW WHEN TO SUBSTITUTE OR HOW TO CREATE MISMATCHES FOR OUR OPPONENTS. WE ARE ALWAYS ON THE DEFENSIVE HAVING TO COUNTER OUR COMPETION’S MOVES.

WOULDN’T IT BE NICE IF WE FORCED THE TEAM WE WERE PLAYING TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO US? INSTEAD OF US TRYING OUR BEST AT HOME NOT TO GET BEAT BY THE WORST TEAMS IN THE NBA LIKE MINNESOTA AND SEATTLE?

WHEN’S THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD STEVE SMITH OR ANY ONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER COMMENT ON WHAT A GREAT CALL THAT WAS FROM WOODY. NO IT’S ALWAYS WELL I DON’T THINK WOODY HAD THAT IN MIND WHEN HE CALLED A TIMEOUT.

THIS IS ATLANTA’S TEAM NOT BILLY KNIGHTS OR MIKE WOODSON. LET SOMEBODY ELSE TRY THEIR HAND WITH OUR TEAM. I DON’T LIKE THE HANDS THAT HAVE BEEN ON THIS TEAM. IT’S TIME TO BRING IN SOME NEW BLOOD AND SOME NEW ENERGY.

WHAT THE HELL DO WE HAVE TO LOSE??? OH THAT’S RIGHT WE ARE ALREADY HEADED FOR ANOTHER LOSING SEASON.

By Oh My

December 7, 2007 2:02 AM | Link to this

Marco Jaric almost gets a triple double? Corey Brewer grads 18 rebounds? Craig Smith scores 20?

WHERE IS THE DEFENSE?

By smartguy

December 7, 2007 6:50 AM | Link to this

If you’re happy with a close, last second win at home over the worst team in the league, then perhaps you should check your expectations. Then again, those are the same people convinced Woody is the best coach in the league.

MJ3, I don’t care if you’re man, woman, or just plain imbecile. I certainly have never heard a lady say some of the things that you have written, but then again, now you’re writing under multiple SNs (posts two minutes apart both using “p**”), so I don’t know what to believe.

When we win its in spite of Woody, when we lose its because of him. That makes perfect sense. Woody is a terrible coach either way. When we win, we have to overcome Woody, when we lose, he is too much to overcome. Get it now? This is really elementary school logic. Then again, aparently you can’t understand elementary basketball, either. Now, I’ll look forward to your response, sure to be filled with insults and trash and no substance, logic, or reason.

By Willie Coyote

December 7, 2007 7:48 AM | Link to this

I take back what I said about Shelden taking Zaza’s minutes; you listenin’ scott? In last nights game it was so obvious that he has no interest in playing with fire or anything. I’m sure it’s because he doesn’t like to be a bench player but he isn’t doing what it takes to earn minutes. I was hoping he had turned a corner at the end of last year when he got extended minutes (due to injuries among other things) but this year, he isn’t justifying staying on a court. How many times does Al Horford let a pg go over his back to knock a rebound loose? That happened to Shelden last night and even though it was a foul, that shouldn’t happen. Play like you’ve got a pair Shelden…damn!

By Hawksville Resident

December 7, 2007 8:22 AM | Link to this

I guess we found Joe Joe!

By D.Ellis

December 7, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

I agree about Joe….he seems off…not just shooting wise….but he seems like he is slower….less enthused (sp). It was great to see him last night get the Game Winner…..BIG SHOT For the Hawks and JJ. You never know…this could be the spark JJ needed to get him going. I hope so.8-10 is not bad considering we lost one to a buzzer beater as well. However we are exaclty on pace with last year. Game 8 was won on Dec.6 06’…game 8 was won on Dec 6th 07’. So I hope we do better this stretch after the 6th than we did last year. Again though good to see JJ get that shot. Hopefully that will spark him and get his offense going like we need it to.

By MannyT

December 7, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

This game was a concentrated version of what I expect to see all season.

The game started unusually well for the Hawks. I think they were up by 17 during the 1st Qtr. As things got worse, the guys just seemed to slow to the loose balls. I wish Mario had gotten some time to just box out Cory Brewer—but this would take me on a coaching rant. I guess those Florida Gators really know how to rebound

It was exciting to be there and see it come together at the end. Lot’s of issues along the way but take the W and run.

For all you doubters of the 41 wins or better, keep this in mind…there are 4 teams in the east with winning records…one of those is 10-9. The Hawks don’t have to be great to make the playoffs, just better than 7 other teams in the east.

Clyde if you start pushing tums, maalox, etc with those shirts, you could get rich this season.

By D.Ellis

December 7, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah and in regaurds to the Chemistry thing mentioned above between our 2 best players Smith and JJ….Did anyone see who the first one over to JJ was after the game winner???? They may not get along like best friends….but I think it is safe tovsay they would rather win and do it having fun. GO HAWKS….Getafter Memphis sat. and get 1 game under 500

By Astro Joe

December 7, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

JJ does appear to be a step slower this season than last year. He said the leg injury is completely healed but he just doesn’t have that same quickness (not that he was ever AI quick but now he just looks plain slow to me). Hopefully his very, very clutch shot gets him started again.

Reese, Smith almost always plays better in December. If he can maintain this same mental focus then he will be worth the investment at the end of the year. If not, I just can’t see giving this guy roughly 15-20% of the team’s alloted salary budget. I will continue to link his payday to the team’s success. If we win, give him anything he wants, if we lose, trade him for another asset.

AJ has been very good in the past 2-3 games. Steady leadership, good assists, solid defense and very few turnovers. Anyone notice that look he had in the final timeout? Whatever the original play that Woody drew up, AJ thought it was clearly the wrong move and gave Woody this “do you know what the fudge you are doing?” look. Woody then erased the play and drew a different one, the one that resulted in the game-winning shot. Thank goodness AJ was able to get our head coach to change the call.

By roan st

December 7, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

If jj’s buzzer beater last night saved Woody’s job as I suspect could be the case then was it really a good win? I actually think we would have been better off losing to the lowly wolves and getting larry drew going forward.

By Ken Strickland

December 7, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

I’m as disappointed as everyyone with the way the team played overall last night. However, I’m not disappointed with a win, no matter how it came about. I really liked the way the team refused to give up in the face of adversity. That wouldn’t have happened the last few yrs.

Woodson seems to be coaching scared. We are now strickly a half court team without a valid half court OFF. I mentioned in an earlier post how we usually start out aggressive and uptempo. That’s why we usually play well in the 1st qtr. When we get a lead Woodson slows everything down in an attempt to protect that lead. That’s why the team has so many awful 2nd qtr performances. This will never be a running/uptempo team as long as Woodson is the coach.

He would be an excellent assistant coach who’s specialty is teaching DEF. His overall philosophy seems to be, get a lead, slow the gm down, and then rely on DEF. This philosophy prevents the team from putting teams away, like we should have done last night. Woodson slowed our gm down, which allowed the Timberwolves to speed theirs up. The truth is, we won that gm primarily because they ran themselves into exhaustion.

Woodson has handcuffed this team offensively to such an extent, fans have been relegated to focusing on individual players for excitement. There is nothing about the teams overall play that’s exciting to watch. Woodson won’t be fired because he’s under contract and ownership isn’t going to pay him for not coaching.

By G Money

December 7, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Ken, Woody’s coaching like he always does - in absentia. However, I too am excited about a win, however we get it. I think it was another character building block. To see JS rise up and come through like he did to tie the score and then JJ hit the game winner was poetic and hopefully prophetic. I have always seen these two as the most valuable components of this team. With Acie and AH, we should really get going.

As for Marvin, I don’t know what to say. I don’t really think that it’s Marvin. When they were running an “up tempo” offense, it seemed as though Marvin new to find the open spot, stop and pop. The offense has changed a bit recently, and I don’t think he is quite sure what he’s supposed to do. Or if he knows, he seems a bit uncomfortable. I’ll take 20 pts a game from him however he can get it.

The player we are least taking advantage of right now is Al. There are no plays designed for him offensively. I think if he could get going, he’d be even more of a beast.

Woody just needs to go or be told to come up with a better offense if he wants to keep his job. I am not so much worried about turnovers if we’re running. They happen. At the same time, our team can run nearly any other team in the NBA out of the arena. So why not work it out until we get it right. Additionally, how much does it take to get a d* pick and roll right? Geez.

By Ryder

December 7, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Ken makes some valid points. It seems to me that Woodson is like one of those NFL coaches who gets an early lead and then expects his team to win by running the football to control the clock and rely on defense. It doesn’t work that way in the NBA, where possessions are changing every 24 seconds.

I like how AJ basically changed the play Woodson called for the game winner. I said last year he might make a good assistant coach one day. It’s obvious that he does know more than Woodson, and that’s a shame.

By AJ

December 7, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

There has been a lot of talk about the last play of the game and that Marvin and Anthony Johnson were not too pleased with the way it was drawn up, does anyone have a picture of video clip of this. I would like to see what it actually looked like, or could someone at least describe it well.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 7, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Mixed feelings about last nights win.Though it was a good win,we continue to play down to our competition. It seesm like we go through mental lapses every game-(turn overs,silly fouls,and poor ball rotation) Woody has to get these guyz focused at the half. there is no way Minn should have been that close at the end. Props to the yung wolves Al Jefferson is a man inside, and Craig Smith does what Sheldon should be doin here. Wait a minute- (box scores) Corey (too slim) Brewer had 17 boards-now that is rediculous.

“Cant we all just get along” Come on man u gotta be kidding me……… DARK F*- I see you are still throwing shots ha? First u question my manhood then u try to insult my intellegence. Im gonna leave it alone before this goes sum where else, Im a grown up so im not gonna respond anymore to your childish bull shyt. GROW UP DF GET ON MY LEVEL….././

I tell you what though,if you insist on calling me out theres a simple solution. I work down town and I get tickets to most home games. Let me know the games you are going to attend this month or next.

I can meet you at half time - that way you can insult me in person.

Whats that you cant afford a ticket? No problem -I will meet u on the steps outside or anywhere else -that iz if you aient Puzzi.

DF dont let me down …. look forward to seeing you.

MUS MUS MUS MUS MUS…I MUS WRITE

By Joe

December 7, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith is the man!!! He should NEVER be traded!!! How about we trade away the COACHing staff??!!

By I.MUS WRITE

December 7, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

I was really trying to be positive when it comes to Woody,But itz clear now more than ever that he has either lost control of the team or just has no clue. I mean come on Woody get some nads.How does your PG force you to change your play with the game on the line. This tells me that it was a stupid play.I dont know when or if there will be a coaching change,but i have had enough of Woody. When he leaves Atl i dont think he will get another shot at coaching in this league. The guy says all the right things in the post game interviews, but his talking does’nt seem to be reaching the players. On a more positive not JS is looking alot better- he is playing under control and making smart plays. Keep the momentum going and get this win on saturday-which would put us 1 game below .500 —HAWKS!!!!

By JerryWest

December 7, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

We desperately need a big body like Doleac.

By Ramon

December 7, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

The main thing that I didn’t understand last night, was why did Woody call so many TIMEOUTS in the first half. Every time the Hawks would start to pull off, WOODY would call a time out. Those are the times you’re supposed to just let the game play out. If you’re holding the team to relatively low points, and you’re on pace to score 20 points more than your average, what could you possibly have to take a timeout for? In the first half, he shouldn’t have used more than 2 time outs, yet he ended up using more than Minnesota.

By Tap Daddy

December 7, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

Can we stick to talkin’ basketball? All this other foolishness needs to be on a different blog…

I watched the game from home last night and was glad we were able to pull off the win. I just hope we address our rebounding problems. No way in the world should Brewer get that many rebounds, all that means is he was out working our guys which is unacceptable. It would be different if it was a big man like Dwight Howard but a dang rookie small forward running around and just playing harder than our guys, PUT A DANG BODY ON HIM!!! We dont have the talent nor are we one of the elite teams to overlook any opponent. Luckily, Joe and Josh Smith came through on our last 2 possessions and saved the day….

By I.MUS WRITE

December 7, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Is’nt Lo Wright supposed to be our big man- 7ft cream puff-my god!!! SOLOMON Jones could have helped alot with his length…. Give Soloman a chance— I know he could have outplayed Doleac.. A wet noodle beat us up on the boards last night…._^%#$@!^^&

By terrell barron

December 7, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Fire Woody, hire Mark Jackson.

By BA

December 7, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Why not just give in and either start Chills at the point with Joe at the two or vice versa? I know you would give up some turnovers, but Chills should be starting. Besides, all A.J. or Lue do is dribble it up and pass it too Joe. And will somebody please expose this Speedy conspiracy situation? What is going on?

By Ramon

December 7, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

G Money, I’m sorry, but 20 points from Marvin is NOT acceptable if his guy gets 15+ points and close to 20 rebounds. Just like against the Pistons, Tayshaun was killing Marvin. I know we may need offense, but I would trade Marvin for a Bruce Bowen type player in a second.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 7, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

BA- Thats a good idea. JJ at the point and Chillz at the 2.Our point gaurds dont do much other than dribble the shot clock down and take last second shots so…

By Clyde

December 7, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

I went to the game last night and there was a few things I noticed. First of all the Hawks are a bad third quarter team. Al Jefferson was a force. If the Wolves would have went to Jefferson more in the fourth they would have won. Second we are too soft in the middle. It seems like some people don’t even want to take a charge. Third Lorenzen Wright looked mighty healthy jumping up and down at the end of the bench last night. Right now he is more known for his flashy suits rather than his skill on the basketball court.

Oh yea good win but we should have won by 15.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Ken Strickland

December 7, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

I’m not concerned about ALaw. His injury prevented him from maintaining his conditioning. He’ll be more effective when he gets his conditioning/legs back. Although JSmith is playing allstar calibur basketball, I’d like to see him make another adjustment. Sometimes he gets into the lane, but not close enough to dunk or shoot an effective jump hook. That’s when most of his turnovers occur. I’d like to see him play more like TDuncan around the basket and use more bank shoots. The bank shot he took last night should be a regular occurrence instead of the 1st shot of that type he’s taken this season. Adding that bank shot would make him unstoppable.

Although AHorford is known for being strong inside, he’s demonstrated an outstanding outside shot. He would be more effective against opposing 5’s playing outside and JSmith is definitely more effective playing inside. JSmith should be fed the ball inside until he has to be double teamed. Until we develope an inside threat, out half court OFF will never be effective.

I’d start Chills at 3 instead of the 1 or 2. I’d bring MWilliams off the bench and run him off screens the entire time he’s on the floor. With Chills on the floor, our rebounding and turnover problems would be reduced. He’d also improve our overall DEF.

By randy

December 7, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

MannyT, crack is wack. 41 wins??? We were one second away from losing to a 2 win team and you are talking about 41 wins?? So what if the East is weak, it was weak last year too and we only won 30. Hawks will have to improve considerably just to get 35 wins in my opinion. I haven’t seen a solid game effort from these guys since the first 3 games of the season. It all starts at the top and filters down. Last night was an indication that changes need to be made.

By G-thang

December 7, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

It is 4:45, Friday, 12/7/07 and the hawks still suk!!! Big deal Joe won it on a buzzer shot. Minny should have never been close in the 1st place. All of the 3 or less wins team come in here and BEAST on the Hawks.

By Ramon

December 7, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

I know some people don’t like to talk about trades, but if the Hawks could trade Marvin and Lue (or someone else) for Shane Battier, I would be SO happy. I think a lot of the problems would be solved from that. Battier is a veteran who can score, and do all of the little things. Not to mention, he’s a world class sportsman. Although he may not score 30 plus a night, I think his hustling would positively affect the defensive points allowed in at least a drop of 8 points a night.

By Ramon

December 7, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Shane Battier is the perfect player for the Hawks in place of Marvin.

By ray

December 7, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

You know what’s bad? When I come here having said all I want to about the Hawks, and the most entertaining thing right now is the jocular contest between Dark karma and I.MUS WRITE. Ah yes, it almost reminds me of the days that Ando and Astro Joe used to go at it. Of course neither of those guys ever suggested a personal confrontation. Ah yes, the keyboard bravado. Of course, I would be a hypocrite if I said there hasn’t been several times I thought to myself “man, would I love to meet this guy in person and apply a size 12 to his posterior region.” LOL!

Anyway, this is what winning and losing does (ESPECIALLY LOSING): set the blog on fire.

By Lil E

December 7, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith has shown all season that he is a clutch player. Mike Woodson needs to play much more aggressive. He does not have a conservative roster, why play like you do ? Is it me or is Horford just a really good fit in an up-tempo offense ?

Go Hawks! Fire Mike Woodson!

By Samuel

December 7, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

About Last Night

Nothing like a great evening of basketball in the A. Me and my Uncle were treated to a great night out in Southern Hollywood. We hopped on the East-West bound for HE Holmes as usual. That’s always good for some memorable moments. You always experience a wide range of emotions if you know what I mean. I try to ride it at least once a week. I love it.

My Uncle AJ, who is a ledgend in the Mississippi Jr. College Coaching circles. He was a black and more animated version of Bobby Knight. Think about bringing an all Black team,during intergration, to a cracker-box Itawamba County Mississippi gym full of studio wrestling fans. He didn’t let that stop him from cuttin a serious fool though. Dude had some serious squads at Coahoma. They were a main feeder to my Alltime favorite College programs, The Alcorn Braves and Coach Dave Whitney. Talk about a serious coach. WOW, what he couldn’t do with the athletes the Hawks have.

There couldn’t have been 500 fans at the game at tipoff. Im serious. Why in the hel_ do you start a game in a major city at 7:00. Great seats though.

First half was seriously boring and my uncle and I seriously believe Norcross would have taken the T-Wolves in the first half. No joke! Most entertaining thing was the three drunk white girls in front of us and a live view of Gabriel Union(who left after half time). Thanks Woody. Oh yea and that game at half time with the little guys was much better basketball than the Hawks and Wolves.

My Boy Al Jefferson was unstoppable. He was just rushing his shots in the first half but he still impressed me. He just needs somebody to get the ball to him. Telfair must have missed him 10 times, wide open on the pick and roll.

We keep talking about the Hawks should run the ball more One thing we came to realize last night is that: “These guys don’t know how to run”. We watched both teams over and over Screw up easy fast break opportunities due to lack of basic Fast Break Fundamentals. It blew our minds.

We’ve been tossing out names of possible successors to Woody. I will trow this one out again: Nolan Richardson. Some here may not like him cause he’ll say what he means but he knows fast transition basketball and how to win. I saw him this summer do a pretty good job with the Puerto Ricans. I say give him a shot. One thing fo show. He will be the boss in that huddle.

Overall, just bad basketball save the last 4 or 5 minutes.

By infamouskrs

December 7, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

i have never understood the fallout of JJ? the guy has only, single handedly broght this team to, somewhat of a kind of respectability! to hear some of you question his loyalty….is a DISGRACE! how can you call yourselves HAWKS FANS? WE STOLE THIS GUY…when we had NO-ONE!!!!!

when a franchise is run by idiots….we all need to realize JJ is A GOD !

without him…i don’t even want to think about where…OR WHAT…our RECORD WOULD BE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By infamouskrs

December 7, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

i may not post as much as the rest of ya….but i know when people (horrible posts)…need to be put in check….DON’T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YA!

By tony

December 8, 2007 6:11 AM | Link to this

It’s time for all you fans to open your eyes to the real problem with this team and it starts at the very top with the owners. It’s obvious that they except failure by allowing BK to make that trade for JJ and allowing the franchise’s worse losing coach to continue to coach this team beyond his 3rd season. They really don’t understand how to build a successful team. History shows that former NBA players who haven’t played on championship teams don’t make good coaches in the NBA. 95% of former NBA players who won NBA Titles who becomes NBA coaches for more than 3 seasons win championships or at least get their team into the NBA FINALS. These are facts ladies and gentleman. I honestly believe former Laker Kurt Rambis is our guy.

By Ramon

December 8, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this

Tony, show me that stat. I want to see that statistic DOCUMENTED. Because Pop didn’t win a championship as a player, did he? Also did Van Gundy win a championship as a player? I know George Karl HAD to win one right? Wait a minute, I really don’t think he did. The reason so many former players win championships are because they often get the benefit of the doubt.

Kurt Rambis couldn’t win with a Lakers roster that had MORE talent, neither could Magic. I don’t like Woody as the head coach of THIS team, but I do think the could be a good head coach. Just like Larry Brown, Jeff Van Gundy, and more wouldn’t be the right fit for this job. But the problem is, in this ownership situation, more than likely you will have to get a coach who is underachieved or is a first year coach.

The players would respect a former player like Mark Jackson more than Rambis. And Jackson sees more basketball than any of us do, nightly.

By Samuel

December 8, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

Has Mark Jackson ever coached anywhere at all? I know he knows basketball but can he coach?

I don’t care how much you can articulate it on TV, it takes some type of experience to become good at it. This is not the time for another experiment. Let him start out at some level(CBA, college, high school, AAU), something before we put him at the highest level. Wouldn’t Ya Think!!!

By buckhead Benny

December 8, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

Seko- I still what somebody to call out the Hawks and find out who nominated Zaza Pachulia for the allstar game? Can you please ask Mike Woodson if he suggested he be nominated for the allstar game?

You may not think it is a big deal, but if it is Mike Woodson like I suspect then in my opinion that’s a reason by itself to fire him.

This shows me that he has no clue about who to play or who to substitute during a game or how to create mismatches for our team.

No other city or team would let this have a pass. It’s like nominating Joey Harrington for the Pro Bowl. If the coach did that he would be ridculed like hell. I want someone to come clean on this one.

Also please take a look at Terrance Moores article about Woodson in today’s paper- He had a really good point that he thinks the players might be trying to get Woodson fired and he directly asked Woodson if he thought the team was trying to get him fired. He was startled and didn’t thinks so but he didn’t know.

Also, isn’t it funny that none of his players are running to his defense? That tells you these guys don’t believe in him. They know him better than us.

By BrianL

December 8, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

1st- I’m not convinced we need a new coach yet. We are slowly, but steadily, improving. This time the last 3 years, you could already write off the season by now. With the exception of a few games, we have been competitive.

2nd- But…since we are on the subject of potential coaches without experience (its not that unheard of, many former players are doing pretty well as coaches, i.e. Byron Scott, Doc Rivers)

I think we could have a potentially GREAT coach already on the payroll. He is a former hawks star and knows this team and the game. And…nope, its not Nique. Its Steve Smith.

By Ramon

December 8, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Samuel, where did Doc Rivers and Byron Scott coach before their first head coaching jobs? Sometimes as a player, you are coaching, especially at the point guard position. Also, where did Isaiah Thomas coach before being the head coach for the Pacers? Thomas took his first squad to the playoffs. Not to mention what experienced coach with a positive background would take this position with the ownership this way? Remember, Lon Kruger had PLENTY experience, so did Lenny Wilkins and Larry Brown.

Mark Jackson played for a handful of good coaches, from college to the pros. Being a good coach is all in how you see the game. Its different than any other thing. The same way, just because you have a good arm means you will be a good quarterback, you have to have a vision that not many have (Woody doesn’t have it). And I will trust Jackson has it. Did you ever see how he use to manage the game when he played or how everything always seemed under control?

By BrianL

December 8, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Whew..Ramon I agree with MOST everything you’ve said…but…leave Isaiah out of it…he’s awful.

Next coach - Mark Jackson or Steve Smith. I’m cool with either one.

By Steve T

December 8, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

I have the perfect coach for the Hawks. I wanted Phil Jackson but he will be hard to get. People we need Bobby Knight or someone like him. There is too much standing around on the hawks. The game against the pistons he would have thrown a chair on the floor and get in some faces. It does not make senses for the Hawks to play like that.

Woodson show some fire when they start screwing up. Take a TO and tell them let us stop playing around take the ball to the hole. I have the fix for the 3rd quarter, I will start both Joshes and Al. I will have JJ and AC. The goal will be to take the ball to the hole. I want to see some slamning and jamming by the hawks. I want the ball to go to the rack. Both Joshes have go inside games and I will want to see them us it in the 3rd.

By terrell barron

December 8, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

An interesting matchup will be Marvin against Rudy. He better step it up defensively or Rudy will go off. I hope to see Law and Conley on the floor at the same time. GO HAWKS

By I.MUS WRITE

December 8, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Whats up KS? You like that ha? Entertaining right- This is a basketball blog,nobody should be here insulting others. If u choose to thats on the person,but be ready for the consequence. Its kinda like that kid in school who is always talking trash,and out of no where the skinny kid with braces socks the shyt out of him, and he has no more words. I was once that skinny kid,but as an adult you cant do things like that(assult charge) so-itz all entertainment

Basketball: I would trade Marvin for Battier in a NY second. Battier is a much better fit for what this team needs. We could push the issue and have them throw in Alston.

So that would be a Marvin for Battier/Alston- lets get that deal done if at all p[ossible. Battier gives you better defense at the SF, more range on his shot (3’s) and is just a more intellegent ball player

-Sumone mentioned Kurt Rambis as a possible replacement for Woody. I remember him from the 80’s lakers,but i have’nt heard much from him on the coaching tip. What would make Rambis the guy here? If I had my choice it would be Mark Jackson or Jim O’brien but he’s in Indiana. What do you know Indiana is right there in the mix of things. A coaching change is going to make a big difference here. I know top to bottom we are just as talented as Indiana. Gasol put up 27/10 -Gay-31/9 I hope we come out firing on all cylinders tonight. I will be in the building tonight … Tall guy- bushy hair goatie- polo clothing-if u see me there its all good come over and throw back some brews with me and Ms.Carla Starr…. Hawks!!!!!

By Samuel

December 8, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Neither Byron or Doc are all that. Not counting this year Doc has a 46% career record and 29% average the last three years. Byron is 45% career and 38% the last three years.

I agree that the Good Ole Boy network continues to recycle guys who can’t coach themselves out of a wet paper bag. I’m all for new blood but I still say, we don’t need another experiment at this time. Mark Jackson would be an experiment.

By Ken Strickland

December 8, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

I MUS WRITE, I hope your last post wasn’t directed at me. I know I haven’t attacked anyone lately, but you never know.

I don’t think the team needs coaching as much as certain players do. I think the team needs better structure more that anything else, especially from an OFF perspective. There certainly isn’t a lack of will to win among the players. However, there are obviously issues among the players concerning our stagnant, inconsistent style of play. Woodson seems to lack confidence in consistently playing an uptempo OFF. The players seem to lack confidence in Woodson’s half court OFF. This explains why Woodson always slows everything down even if playing uptempo gets us a big lead. The players seem to get frustrated with his stagnant half court style and reverts to playing one on one.

We could also use a break from all of the injuries. We need a player that can develop into an inside presence, and JSmith is the likely candidate. Anytime he gets within 10ft of the basket, he should be raining bank shots off the glass. Add a couple of dunks, a layup or two, some FT’s, and you have a very high percentage 20-22ppg inside scorer. This would do wonders for any half court OFF.

By Ramon

December 8, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

Samuel, you can’t look at percentages in coaching. With Scott and Rivers over the last three years, look at their teams ROSTER. The first year Scott had with NO was full of Baron Davis being injured year round. Doc and Byron gets the MOST out of their players. Look at what Byron has done with Paul, and look at what Doc did to the Magic AFTER an 0-13 start with Armstrong at PG.

I feel Mark Jackson could have that same exact effect, if not better. The thing is this roster is BETTER than both of those rosters were.

Brian, Isaiah isn’t a bad coach. He’s actually pretty good. He just doesn’t have anyone in the starting 5 that plays defense (picture 5 Marvins on the court). Isaiah makes adjustment in the games.

Someone stated B. Knight, but Woody is one of Knight’s boys so what’s the difference? Knight wouldn’t last half of a season in the NBA, because of his style.

By tony

December 8, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

Ramon, seems to me you’re looking for an augument otherwise you would have read my post correctly. I mentioned former NBA PLAYERS ONLY! Gregg Popvich is not an former NBA PLAYER! If I’m going to hire a former NBA PLAYER he will be a player who has won an NBA Title because history shows that they have more success than those who have never won a NBA Title. Kurt Rambis only part of a season with a .600 winning percentage. I said that if they coach over 3 season that their success rating is good. You people be your on GM but I’m putting my money on 1 who has a NBA Title under his belt. Kurt Rambis is my GUY!

By I.MUS WRITE

December 8, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

KS that was’nt directed at you bro. I was just saying that this is a bball blog and everyone is entitled to their opinion,but when a dumb azz (who’s name I wont mention) start making personnal comments about someone you dont know that’s kind of uncalled for. Really though I have better things to do than look for someone during halftime. I’ll probably be at the J.daniels pub thrown a few back with - Ms. CS- An exceptionally beautiful creature if I must say so myself. Actually I thought your post was kinda humorous. This is entertainment to me, But I guess I broutght the Bytch out of someone because they have been MIA for the Past 36 hrs- oh well.

By Ramon

December 8, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Tony, when you say part of an NBA champion team, you have to realize the role they played could be a huge difference also. Mark Jackson always was the leader of his offense. So, sorry championship or not, I would take the NBA 2nd all-time assist man in a second. As a PG, you see things differently and you ARE a coach on the court. Kurt Rambis was important, but he was never the head that kept everything together.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 8, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

KS -hey my fault actually that was for the guy Ray -I got the names mixed up.

Ray -there’s no jocular anything -u got a dumbass making stupid comments, no place for that ——

glad i could entertain u though, lol

By Ken Strickland

December 8, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

I MUS WRITE, everythings cool with me as well. A lot of you are discussing people you’d like coaching the Hawks. I’m not going to be critical of anyone’s choice, but I don’t think the timing is right for any of the ones mentioned. If we want the Hawks to make a playoff run, we have to promote someone from within that will make adjustments, not changes, like LDrew. That way, the players won’t have to make too many adjustments and the coach will already know the players habits, abilities and attitudes.

At the end of the season we assess Drew’s performance and decide whether he should be retained. If not, we look at considering one of the aforementioned candidates. This is a very talented team that’s in disarray. The talent, mindset and youth of the players on this team is in oppostion to that of its HC.

By tony

December 8, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

Ramon, that’s your prerogative young man. I take it that you never watch Kurt(Superman) play. The guy was relentless and played a huge role in those 3 championships. Also a player with championship experience knows from season open to season end how to get to the Finales because of their experience. Because of their championship experience that are more capable of dealing with adversities than those who have no championship experience. They know what it feels like to win or get to the championship games. Young NBA players will buy into a champion philosophy than an non-champion. If you want to keep your team at the bottom then hire yourself a non-champion. KURT RAMBIS is my GUY!

By ray

December 8, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

Samuel, you nailed it. We don’t know how to run because we don’t have a coach who knows how to teach or coach that style.

I.MUS Write, by “jocular” I meant a sort of testosterone-charged contest. It wasn’t anything of sexual connotation if that’s what you were thinking. Actually, I have no idea what you were thinking. Fact is, people go after each other all the time and make all sorts of comments. Most of it is in fun. However, some people evidently have very thin skin and/or are easily baited. And like I said, it’s all good on the keyboard. We tag each other all the time. Had you been around on this blog for the better part of 3 years like I have, you’d have seen some good ones. However, none of them have been in person that I know of. Fact is, you never really know who or what you’re dealing with. And this is a blog. Stupid comments abound here. It’s kind of like freedom of speech: always comes with a bag of thorns, LOL!

By ray

December 8, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

Well, tonight we’ll get to see what a running team in it’s formative stages is supposed to look like. The Grizzlies are dangerous. How do we contain the explosive Gay? Gasol will be a problem too, if he’s playing at all like his old self. Got a leaper in Swift to contend with as well. It will be interesting.

By Steve T

December 8, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

We won, but one thing stood out to me tonite. We need a big that can score on the inside. The hawks had a big lead but they could not get the inside game to bury this team. We need a 7 footer who can score on the inside at will.

By kwooden1

December 8, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

HAWKS WIN! HAWKS WIN! Great defensive first half, or Memphis just missed a lot of open shots. (I was listening on the radio) JS played a great game and Marvin got his shot back. JJ is starting to work his way back and AJ played probably his best game of the season so far. Considering the next four games this was a must win. Again the Hawks are going to have to score more points to win any of their next three games. Looking at their schedule the rest of the month are all quality opponents (3 current division leaders, Miami being the exception but their going to turn around sooner or later) The good I see from this game is much better defensive rebounding. The bad is JJ has to shoot much better, they will need his points to win some if not any of the rest of their games. I will say this though if they go 5-4 for the next nine games, I will change my view and call them a playoff team this year! Great win, get ready for the gautlet.

GO HAWKS!!

By terrell barron

December 8, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

SteveT, can you name an AVAILABLE big, who can score at will?

By Ramon

December 9, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

http://www.nba.com/hawks/community/JoshSmithHostsEventForStJude_112707.html

Sign him for whatever he wants.

By ray

December 9, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this

Well what do ya know? We’re hovering just below .500. However, what happens over the next 20 games?

Reese, I like the progress Josh Smith is making. But, he hasn’t been doing quite this good all along, as you seemed to suggest. He’s always been a defensive dynamo, but now he’s learning and beginning to show a bit of an ability to take over games. Not on the superstar level (particularly on the offensive end), but definitely a night-in, night-out force. I like that he’s getting much better shot selection and guys are including him/deferring to him instead of just “give JJ the ball”, as they’ve been doing. In return, he’s passing even more and part of that is because he’s drawing defenders as he goes to the basket.

Basically, he’s letting the game come to him now.

By ray

December 9, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

Really Steve? Wow. I think we covered that in the last….ohhh..200 blogs…

Sorry, I know I was being sarcastic. It’s just…well, you know..

By HAWKS R US

December 9, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this

PEOPLE THOUGHT THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN!!! WE’RE ONLY ONE GAME AWAY FROM HAVING A .500 RECORD!!! PLAYOFFS BABY!!! GO PLAYOFFS HAWKS!!!

By Steve T

December 9, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this

TB, my point is we need a big 7 footer that can score inside the paint. When we have a 20 point lead, we need someone that can score some baskets. We should not have to rely on jumpers when we have a lead.

By The Dark Karma

December 9, 2007 1:32 AM | Link to this

All is grand when a team is winning. Yet, this team has not reached the elusive .500 plateau.

Joe Johnson has somehow been diminished while Josh Smith appears to be on the rise. Very interesting. Marvin Williams is clearly a one dimensional player. One wonders how he can be so useless in rebounding one night, and then be productive a few nights later.

Acie Law is having difficulty staying out of foul trouble. It is fortunate that Anthony Johnson is playing well or there would be trouble. The songs of I told you so will cease when the losing begins again. The usual lamenting and crying out for change will then resume.

By Big G Money

December 9, 2007 4:07 AM | Link to this

Steve T, I don’t get the “we need a big” comment. Who the H are we going to get? How about Dwight Howard, Shaq, Duncan, Stoudamire, or Garnett? If it ain’t one of those, we can forget about it. If you’ve been watching the games this season, we’ve been playing well inside and holding our own contrary to “old school” basketball wisdom. An uptempo style exposes many teams who want to go old school, bang, bang, bang in the middle. If you had watched the Golden State - Miami game you would have seen how they ran circles around Shaq and Mourning to the point that neither played significant minutes in the second half of their LOSS.

Maybe you’d prefer to have Darko or Pau on the team playing center versus Horford. That sounds like an old Babcock move to me. Get the coaching right on this team and the players will perform.

Hey Ramon and Imus, MW goes for a double double with stats that look like Rudy Gay’s. In case you didn’t know it Shane Battier is shorter than Marvin and FOR his CAREER is only averaging 10 points per game. This year it is 8pts a game. Marvin is averaging nearly 16 a game this year and 11 for his career which is clearly on the way up. Battier is tough, but I don’t know if we buy what we need with him at SF.

Everyone knows the real test is Orlando. We’ll see what an emerging elite team is really like and be able to measure ourselves accordingly. In the meantime, I’m gonna enjoy being 9-10 in December.

By Ramon

December 9, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this

Big G, you have to realize Battier played for Van Gundy. The offense is invisible in JVG’s world. Theres more that is brought to the game than just ppg. All the small intangibles a championship team needs could be brought to the table by HIM. Although, he’s never been on a championship squad (and to think Speedy has lol), his maturity, leadership, and hustle plays are unquestioned. His hustling plays would possibly lead to more points for EVERY one, because the loose balls and charges (he takes regularly) would lead to more points for the team.

For the scoring you lose in Marvin, could be made up by Law. This would give Law a chance to become more of a Tony Parker type of PG.

By terrell barron

December 9, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

The Hawks had at least 6 of the top 10 plays on NBA TV Daily. WOW

By reese

December 9, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

First of all, good win hawks. Terrell Brandon, I noticed the same on NBA tv. Ray, you’ll noticed that I said that his aggressive style of play has been consistent. He is still placing entries in every positive offensive/defensive category. As a result, his scoring has increased to the level that he is starting to be the top scorer. This allows JJ and Marvin to feel more comfortable in the role of 2nd or 3rd option.

I still say that Josh is the best overall player on the team. He may not be the best at all facets, but he is able to provide the spark in an area that is missing in the game that is being played.

The good: team is fast breaking more. 4 players had blocked shots and altered other shots. 11 players played. Marvin took 16 shots and had a double double. Salim’s shot was off but he played well in other areas and joined Josh Smith in placing entries in every positive offensive/defensive category. The guards are starting to rebound better and Al Horford continuing to grab double digit rebounds helped produce a 50 point rebounding night.

The bad: Scoring from the bench needs to more consistent. We only had 3 players score in double figures. For long term success, this needs to improve. Maybe its Woodson’s plan to rotate a different player with over 40 minutes each game. But, the bench needs to continue to get minutes so that they can become more consistent in their play.

Astro Joe, have you imposed qualifiers for other players on the team. Again, the objective of a trade should be to get equal or greater value. Unless, you are rebuilding or have a player who just doesn’t want to be there. IMO, I just don’t see the value in trading Josh Smith and with Joe Johnson, you build around those 2. All of us bloggers just have different view points in which we feel it should be done.

By randy

December 9, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

RUMOR: New Philly GM trying to get Josh Smith for Andre Miller. First off let me start of by saying: AHAHAHAHA HHAHAHAHAHA!!! AHAHAHAH AHAHHAHA!!

I don’t think even the Atlanta management is dumb enough to make that deal. But if they are, I will surely not watch another Hawks game. Already at 21, Josh Smith is 10x better than Andre Miller ever will be.

By Ken Strickland

December 9, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

REECE, I’m with you as far as keeping our core of talent in tact. I would like to see us add a few pieces, but not at the expense of any core players. I think we need to add more speed and quickness at PG and you can never have too many BIGS.

The hero of last nights gm was AJohnson. He set the tempo and kept the pressure on Memphis. He also played good DEF. However, he needs to be more OFF minded. By not looking for his OFF, he’s making it easier for teams to double JJ.

DARK KARMA, don’t be so hasty with your criticism of ALaw. He’s just returned from missing 8gms with a serious ankle injury. He couldn’t run, practice or do anything significant to maintain his conditioning. That would affect anyones gm, especially someone that relies on speed and quickness. It will likely take him another 5-6gms to get everything back. Your criticism of MWilliams is strange. How many one dimensional SF’a, especially as young and inexperienced as he is, are averaging 15-16PPG(shooting 50%+), 6-7RPG and 1 steal per gm? If you’ll notice, he’s right up there with JChills when it comes to protecting the ball and having few turnovers. The MWilliams you’re criticizing is head and shoulders ahead of the one dimentional player of the past.

JSmith seems to have become very comfortable playing inside. We are now seeing the results of his off season work with Hakeem. I love it and I think he does too. I love this teams resilence. We all have complaints, and most of us have expressed them openly. However, despite our complaints, despite the injuries, youth and inexperience, we are just 1gm under 500. We’ve managed this without a winning streak. If we get our injured players back, gain more consistency, we could see 40+ wins and a playoff berth. GO ON YOU HIGH FLYING HAWKS!!!!!

By HB Ando

December 9, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

Ken, just how are we supposed to add players of the caliber necessary to improve, without giving up comparable talent from some of our “core” players? You can’t get something for nothing (unless you’re Phoenix, and you milk 2 firsts and Diaw for a player you weren’t going to match). We DO NOT have a first round draft pick. We face a decision to give substantial, cap killing contracts to Josh, Josh and Marvin, over the next two summers.

Where and how are we going to acquire these necessary pieces, without giving up talent in kind? Please apply some logic and reason to the situation. We’re slowly improving, based on the maturation of the players we do have. But this roster is not constructed to be competitive, regardless of the upside of it’s current players, with the teams who sit atop the Eastern Conference.

What will it take to be able to compete with the likes of Boston, Orlando and Detroit (and, if J. O’Neal can stay healthy for the remainder of the season, Indiana). And I honestly don’t believe that Miami won’t begin to wreak havoc on the East, as Shaq overcomes his typical slow start (though he clearly isn’t ever going to be the Shaq of old) and Wade is fully healthy. And should they make a move, say J. Williams expiring contract and a throw in, for Bibby, once he comes of the IR, then a motivated, healthy Heat line up of Bibby, Wade, Davis, Haslem and Shaq, WILL surpass these Hawks by the all-star break.

We’re still under .500, and I still believe that’s where we’ll end up. Billy, either through a lack of skill (my opinion) or the limitations placed on him by the ownership squabble (the opinion of folks like Joe), is simply unlikely to do anything of consequence to improve this lineup, as he has failed to do, in-season, for the past three years.

I’ll say it for the millionth time, there are virtually no players in modern NBA history who spend their whole career with the same team. The names and faces on this team must, and will, change. And it won’t be a case of “giving up” on any of them. It will be born of the absolute necessity to balance a roster that is not built, even potentially, to compete with the best teams in the East.

I’ve maintained, since the very beginning of this blog, that I, personally, am not interested in a team being built with the goal of mediocrity (which I would define as fighting, annually, for a playoff berth, with little hope of even first-round, home court). To build such a team, you have to take chances, and acquire undeveloped size, with the potential to emerge. Billy has not drafted a single player with the potential to compete with the opposing bigs, on the better teams in the league. And, based on really bad results, and some dumb luck, he’s just now having to pay the final bill on his unnecessary gift of first rounders, to Phoenix.

For the waste of a pick that he made with Shelden, we would have been much, much better, if we had just given that pick to Phoenix, and settled the bill.

The truth is that the Hawks cannot become legitimate contenders in the East without trading one, or more, of it’s core, young players. You’ve got to give something of value up, if you want something of value in return.

I still say that we have nothing to lose by offering GS Shelden for O’Bryant. He’s unrestricted at the end of this year, so they’ve already committed themselves to getting nothing for him. O’Bryant may never emerge as a legitimate starting center. But he’s no less likely to do so than Shelden is to ever become the starting PF here in Atlanta (technically, he’s a better bet to end up a starting center in this league than Shelden is to ever be the starting PF here, because likelihood of that is roughly 0%). O’Bryant isn’t being let go by GS because he can’t play. He’s being let go because he’s a horrible fit in Nellie’s system, and he always will be. Think Diaw and Woody, as far as player/coach fits, and open your mind to what a change of scenery could mean for O’Bryant, here in Atlanta.

There’s a yin and a yang to both Smith and Marvin continuing to emerge as legitimate NBA starters. The good is that both have increased trade value, and, given that they still are both most comfortable playing primarily the 3, either could take that role as their own if the other were to be traded. The yang is that both will expect larger and larger contract numbers, with every convincing performance. Both those guys are going to want more than $10 million per year (Josh is going to want more like $13-15 million). In a few years, Horford will command $10+ million. You won’t be able to afford all these big contracts, in addition to Joe’s deal. And you’d still have a line up that can’t, over the next 3-4 years, expect to beat Orlando or Boston, unless you find a legitimate big. So, somebody has to move on.

It’s in the math, and it’s an on-court necessity, that this core CANNOT, and WILL NOT, stay together in the coming years. That’s just reality knocking at your door and asking you to be real.

By HB Ando

December 9, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

It’s nice that we’re almost to .500. But folks have to keep in mind that 4 of our last 5 wins have come against teams with a combined record of 16-42.

But watching them win sure is better than watching them lose, regardless of such caveats…….

By mykhalc

December 9, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

good win last nite. they played some great team ball.

REESE, just gotta give you a shoutout ‘cause your cat JS is REALLY playin’ some great ball. and has been doin’ it for the last 2+ weeks or so. he’s slowed played down his game without losin’ any part of it and has actually become more determine to score at the rim. that’s nothin’ but good news for the HAWKS!!!

and i think you hit on a good point a few posts back. it’s the fact that JS WANTS to be the man!!! his b’ball personality IS everythin’ one one look for in a leader!! great intensity, great hustle, good and growin’ talents, definitely has the potential to be great, no doubt. i think the thing i’m most impressed with right now is his willingness to make the NECESSARY adjustments to make his game that much better and that much more unstoppable. i really am enjoyin’ his play!!!!

can’t wait for ACIE to find his groove again. as much as AJ has played solid, mistake free ball these last couple of games, he still limits the potential of the first unit. but none-the-less he has played some solid ball.

gotta say again, WHATEVER was said in the player’s only meetin’ MUST HAVE REALLY needed to be said!!??!! their team play hasn’t been this good since the games leadin’ up to the loss in DET.

By mykhalc

December 9, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

s/b…he’s slowed down his game without losin’ any part of it…

under the weather so my posts might not be tooo coherent!!! maybe they never are!!??!!LOL

By tb

December 9, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

Ando, Ando, Ando, up to your very old tricks again.

Very nice how you “hid” another BK reaming within a nice short little reply to Ken’s trade idea.

I’m going to enjoy this.

“We face a decision to give substantial, cap killing contracts to Josh, Josh and Marvin, over the next two summers.”

A decision that will allow us every opportunity to decide which of those players we will invest in or potentially trade.

This one I love.

“Please apply some logic and reason to the situation. We’re slowly improving, based on the maturation of the players we do have. But this roster is not constructed to be competitive, regardless of the upside of it’s current players, with the teams who sit atop the Eastern Conference.”

You talk of logic and reason and then propose a hypothesis that you have that this is a very flawed roster, without any logic or reason; just an over-zealous opinion.

“he’s just now having to pay the final bill on his unnecessary gift of first rounders, to Phoenix.”

There was no way of knowing that Phx wouldn’t match. We had missed out on every FA we had tried to sign; BK wasn’t going to miss this one. And he didn’t. It’s even very debatable to say that we over-paid.

More logic and reason according to Ando.

“The truth is that the Hawks cannot become legitimate contenders in the East without trading one, or more, of it’s core, young players.”

“O’Bryant may never emerge as a legitimate starting center. But he’s no less likely to do so than Shelden is to ever become the starting PF here in Atlanta (technically, he’s a better bet to end up a starting center in this league than Shelden is to ever be the starting PF here, because likelihood of that is roughly 0%).”

The question isn’t whether there is more chance of POB being a starting C in the NBA or Shelden being the starting PF for the Hawks. Shelden is much better than POB and has much more trade value. We can package Shelden (or keep him another season)and sign POB cheap to see if he can continue to develop in the DL.

This one is beautiful.

“Think Diaw and Woody, as far as player/coach fits, and open your mind to what a change of scenery could mean for O’Bryant, here in Atlanta.”

I seem to recall you calling for Woodson’s job. Now you seem to think that he can turn POB into a starting C. And you used the failed Diaw/Woodson relationship as a reference.

“There’s a yin and a yang to both Smith and Marvin continuing to emerge as legitimate NBA starters. The good is that both have increased trade value, and, given that they still are both most comfortable playing primarily the 3”.

I’d be pretty surprised if you find many around here that see Smoove as a three.

I think the Hawks will keep the core together alap. As contract situations arise they will be able to ascertain which players to keep and which to trade/release etc…

In the immediate Smoove and Chil are up for contracts next summer. they can be signed without losing any key players.

BK can also choose to make a move in anticipation of the following season and Marvin’s contract.

There is so much time and so many potential moves that it is ridiculous for you to propose some of your “realities”.

I have thought from the beginning that you had it in for BK. Your continued abstraction and ever-weakening “arguments” (I use that term very lightly) only reinforces that idea.

Ando and his “reality” not-withstanding, I am very psyched about this team. I’m enjoying the play and anxious for the future of our team.

Go Hawks

By Bud Brewer

December 9, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

There may still be an opening to make a move for Jose Calderon.Toronto is back to playing 50/50 between Jose and TJ Ford.It’s clear their managememnt favors Ford.I’d offer Law and Sheldon if that’s what it takes,Calderon is good enough right now to start at pg on a championship team.I’m not saying he can make THIS team a champion just that we’d have the floor leader when the team is ready.There is no more efficient pg in the game.He has the lowest turnover to assist ratio,the lowest fouls to minutes played and he’s top three in shooting % at the position.That adds up to a pg who gets the most out of every possession.We’re one of the least efficient now so what’s it worth for a young pg with his package…..lots.

By tb

December 9, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

I like Calderon too. Not enough for AC and Shelden though.

By Ramon

December 9, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

Bud, you said Calderon is good enough to start on a championship team. Yet he’s not good enough to start on his on squad, please explain. Why trade AC for him, when you don’t know all that AC is capable of? AC may very well be BETTER than Calderon before the end of THIS season. So you’d be trading the future at pg, on this team, and the ONE back-up that the Hawks have who can get 10+ rebounds any night. I’m sorry, I just don’t see why any GM would make that deal.

By randy

December 9, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

There is no need to do anything at PG right now. We have to find out if AC can handle the job, he has only played like 10 NBA games. It wouldn’t make sense bringing in a mediocre PG when we don’t know if we have something better. We already have 3 mediocre point guards (one that will never play) and one unknown. Like it or not, this team is still in the rebuild stage…we got most of the ingredients it is just having them mature. No need to start trading away talent we have built at this point IMO. 9-10 is very respectable for the Hawks, just got to do a better job of managing leads.

By Clyde

December 9, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

Has anyone noticed how well we have been playing without Tyron Lue? If he would stay hurt I might be out of business by February.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Steve T

December 9, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

Let us not trade AC. I like the way AC drive to the basket on some plays He has shown what he might become…. a poor man Tony Parker.

The thing the Hawks need is a big at center. I would like to get a big man that could score on the inside, but that may be a tall order. Right now, I will settle for a big that could block shots, rebound, and play some tough D. A good big will get us in the play-off faster than a PG.

By Ken Strickland

December 9, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

HD ANDO, I said we needed to add some additional talent, I didn’t say we had to. As far as how we acquire the talent we need, we really do have something certain teams might want besides our core players. BK built this team by trading away veteran talent for expiring contracts and draft picks. We simply reverse the process. Now granted, it might be too early in the season to initiate the process. But by the alstar break, certain teams should be willing to deal.

We don’t need frontline players, just a couple of capable veterans. JDumars built the Pistons picking up players other teams didn’t want or had given up on(Hamilton, Ben and RWallace, Billups, McDyess,etc). Now all but McDyess are allstars. We don’t need to be that lucky, but we do need to do better than Speedy and LWright.

By Ramon

December 9, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Doleac would be a nice, simple addition.

By new jersey faithful

December 9, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

right on clyde, keep T Lue off the court as much as possible. Why dont the Hawks just release that waste of space Seedy? He is a piece of crap!

By reese

December 9, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

Ramon, you’ve had some nice post on this blog, but Doleac. I don’t think so.

MyKhalc, thanks for the shout out.

Ken, I believe that both you and HB Ando would be getting your wish if Shelden Williams and Patrick O’bryant were traded.

We would not be losing a core piece and we would be gaining a center. I really can’t comment too much more because I have not seen Patrick O’bryant play much. I’m watching the GSW vs LAL game and he has not left the bench. Biedrens has played a little, but has not made an impression.

By Steve T

December 9, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

If Shelden’s shot start falling instead of rimming out, he can help the hawks. He is starting to show something. He may turn out to be like that 6-8 PF/C the spurs had. I think his shots will start the fall in the next few game.

By Ramon

December 9, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Reese, just having someone 7 foot on the team, even if it only cost lue would be good.

By Bud Brewer

December 9, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this

Ramon First, the only way the trade makes sense is if you think Calderon is as good as I think he is. There is no chance Law will be anywhere near as good as Calderon by the end of this season or next for that matter.I know this is judgement not fact but I’m sure of it.As for why Toronto doesn’t give Jose the job outright,I’m afraid they will before long if he keeps outplaying Ford.They have alot invested in Ford and they’re likely reluctant to admit they backed the wrong player too easily.Ford is faster and more dynamic than Calderon but he’s not as good a pg…not even close.

By Bud Brewer

December 9, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

SteveT I’m guessing the C/F in San Antonio you’re refering to is Duncan.If so Shelden won’t be in Tim’s class if he tops out at the very highest end of his potential.Shelden may well be a very good player in the right situation someday.My saying he might should be traded is as much for his sake as the Hawks,he seems to be regressing in Atlanta now.Again though,Tim Duncan he ain’t, never will be.

By reese

December 10, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this

Ramon, I also want a seven footer on the team. But, I want one with some talent. Specifically, someone who will block shots, rebound and will attempt to provide some offense.

Besides, I don’t even think that doleac is a true seven footer, he is slow, he cannot jump and is basically another Lorenzen Wright. Someone who just gets in the game and gives a hard foul.

Patrick O’Bryant played in the 3rd qtr and made a couple of mistakes. Nellie pulled him and sat him back on the bench.

I can live with a 6’11 player if they play big. In other words, block shots and rebound.

Unfortunately, Nellie did give either Biedrens or O’bryant enough time for me to form an opinion on either.

By reese

December 10, 2007 12:26 AM | Link to this

Oh and for those of you who complained about the Hawks 1 point win over Minnesota, did you notice that they beat the suns over the weekend. This is the NBA folks, any team can be beat and any team can beat another team. At the end of the season, no one counts the number of 1 point wins vs the number of 20 point wins. They count the number of wins.

By MannyT

December 10, 2007 12:26 AM | Link to this

I expect the roster to be different a year from now because of the restricted status of the Joshes.

BK might not figure out market value. The truth is most teams don’t have the cap room to make a big run at either. If they make a big offer, the Hawks match…unless there is a sign and trade that works to get pieces needed here. This is the best option to get new players on this roster given the lack of interest of most free agents in the Hawks.

In the meantime, there is so much discounting of the record based on the quality of the teams played. Look at the standings—as Charles Barkley would say “There are a lot of bad teams out there.” The Hawks may not show well against the better teams, but there are enough struggling teams to make up the difference by the end of the season. Right now, only 1/3 of the teams in the NBA are 2 games or more over 500.

There is enough road kill to sample before the season ends to get the Hawks to 500.

By HB Ando

December 10, 2007 1:00 AM | Link to this

TB, you’re a strange dude. You spent what I would guess is a good half an hour quoting my post, acting like it didn’t make any sense, and pretending you had conclusively undermined my points.

Like,

TB: “I’m going to enjoy this.”

Ando: ““We face a decision to give substantial, cap killing contracts to Josh, Josh and Marvin, over the next two summers.”

TB: “A decision that will allow us every opportunity to decide which of those players we will invest in or potentially trade.”

Um, TB, that was exactly my point. I was responding to Ken’s assertion that we could improve this team substantially, without giving up any of our core players. So, what’s YOUR point?

Please objectify your opinion that Shelden has more market value than O’Bryant. You state it as if it’s fact, but I don’t see any reference that justifies that position.

This one is particularly head-scratching:

TB:More logic and reason according to Ando.

“The truth is that the Hawks cannot become legitimate contenders in the East without trading one, or more, of it’s core, young players.”

Shouldn’t this have been accompanied by at least an attempt to refute the statement. Heck, anyone can just read my post and know that it’s “more logic and reason according to Ando”. But you didn’t even attempt to explain your disagreement with the position. You just quoted me. Are you suggesting that we don’t need to make some personnel moves, to get bigger down low, to compete with the likes of Orlando, Boston, Miami, Indiana and Detroit?

What exactly is your point?

Honestly, I think you are retarded.

No offense, but this one was even more weird than your post about waiting a year and a half to put me in my place, and then doing nothing of the sort.

I’ll tell you what: instead of cut and pasting my post, pretending you’ve some how undermined my logic, and telling me how you are excited by these Hawks, why don’t you explain, in detail, how this roster, as it is currently constructed, could hope to compete with the top teams in the East, from a match up standpoint, in the coming years, without a real big man or a first round draft pick this summer.

Dude, you just don’t make any sense……

By Bud Brewer

December 10, 2007 2:55 AM | Link to this

randy if you’re saying Calderon is (would be)another mediocre pg I couldn’t disagree more.He would be (is) one of the very best in the game right now.

By tb

December 10, 2007 4:05 AM | Link to this

That’s exactly the difference between you and me.

“why don’t you explain, in detail, how this roster, as it is currently constructed, could hope to compete with the top teams in the East, from a match up standpoint, in the coming years, without a real big man or a first round draft pick this summer.”

I’ll let the Hawks play do the talking. My ego is not so big that I have to create an opinion of something and then spend the rest of my life trying to prove that I had a point. I am a Hawks fan. I don’t have any control over their destiny.

When I come to this blog it’s for distraction and entertainment. When I come across a pompous, know it all, who finds fault in the subject and then tries his best to draw all the attention to himself using very poor “logic” to give us his opinion, I just can’t help but play.

I originally found your posts negative and vain. Now it just seems like you have a real problem with this situation. A person who has no control over something, yet spends much time fretting over solutions is wasting their time to some extent. To bash the person who does have control and offer your expert opinion in place, with the same tired argument over and over again would seem to be at least stuck.

I don’t agree with your assessments. I think that hind-sight vision will make anyone look like

By tb

December 10, 2007 4:07 AM | Link to this

That’s exactly the difference between you and me.

“why don’t you explain, in detail, how this roster, as it is currently constructed, could hope to compete with the top teams in the East, from a match up standpoint, in the coming years, without a real big man or a first round draft pick this summer.”

I’ll let the Hawks play do the talking. My ego is not so big that I have to create an opinion of something and then spend the rest of my life trying to prove that I had a point. I am a Hawks fan. I don’t have any control over their destiny.

When I come to this blog it’s for distraction and entertainment. When I come across a pompous, know it all, who finds fault in the subject and then tries his best to draw all the attention to himself using very poor “logic” to give us his opinion, I just can’t help but play.

I originally found your posts negative and vain. Now it just seems like you have a real problem with this situation. A person who has no control over something, yet spends much time fretting over solutions is wasting their time to some extent. To bash the person who does have control and offer your expert opinion in place, with the same tired argument over and over again would seem to be at least stuck.

I don’t agree with your assessments. I think that hind-sight vision will make anyone look like a fool. The Hawks are arriving and as a fan; I’ll sit back and enjoy the sport without the hating.

By The Dark Karma

December 10, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

KEN STRICKLAND. Marvin Williams does not turn the ball over because he is very quick to give it up. He will only hold onto the ball when bringing it up the court. He only does that when forced to do so, and will give it up as soon as he gets across the half court line. It is indeed easy to avoid turnovers when one is continually throwing the ball to someone else. Furthermore, he is not aggressive enough with the ball. Watch him look at the defense and decide whether or not to drive the basketball. He will not, and instead passes it off. His most aggressive action with the ball occurs when he either receives it for an open shot or catches it in stride for an open drive. There are several players in the NBA who do this. And so, he does not distinguish himself in any way. To conclude, one would also expect more and better rebounding from a player of his size. His defense is often suspect. He was not able to keep the smaller Corey Brewer from getting a career and rookie high 18 rebounds. This is inexcusable. Williams must perform better than this. What about the man makes anyone feel that he is justifying a number 2 pick?

Acie Law is a good player. He has had a few bad games due to foul trouble. It is likely to happen to a rookie. Particularly a rookie point guard. This is not unexpected. It was merely an observation and not a criticism.