Hawks

By Astro Joe

November 28, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

Sure was good to see Zaza show up again. I was beginning to think that he was either still hurt. Horford and Shelden also played strong ball tonight. And Ramon I agree, nice move by Woody to start Mario. Props to AJ, too. He had a nice game, buried a couple of 3s and then his teammates stopped giving him the ball, that was strange. Steve Smith’s comment about Mario was insightful too. Mario accidently gets racked across the face and is doubled-over in pain and none of his teammates walk over to check on him. What’s up with that? Outside looking in, I’ve got a feeling there is a fractured locker room that keeps this team from realizing it’s potential. And maybe at this point, some apathy was crept in to make matters even worse. I’m hoping Law sits out until Tuesday, we can wait one more game to get our starting PG back for the remainder of the season.

By mykhalc

November 28, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

i’m glad we got a ‘W’ but i saw NOTHIN’ to change my mind about anythin’. uninspired play merely reflectin’ the lack of inspiration and creativity WOODSON brings as a coach. i truly believe this team is an accurate and real mirror of WOODSON. they just DO NOT seem to be enjoyin’ themselves despite a win!!! go figure!!!?? does ANYBODY EVER smile about anythin’ on this team????

By Flappin Hawk

November 28, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this

I noticed the same thing when Mario got raked across the face..the only player to finally approach him was Horford. The rookie knows what TEAM means…so does Mario. JS just walked away like he couldn’t care less.

Lethargic effort tonight, but a win is a win.

By mykhalc

November 28, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

correction: i can tell HORFORD is havin’ the time of his life!!! don’t let ‘em bring ya down big guy!!!

By JerryWest

November 28, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

AJ+Lue exceeded my expectations tonight. Mo is playing like an all star and two old gimps can’t be expected to stay with him. Lue also played hurt, admirable, but he shouldn’t have chucked so many shots at the end.

Smoove tried to penetrate more than he usually does.

Zaza is back to OK. Finally.

Horford is way ahead of Yi, and Yi probably will never catch up.

Can’t wait for Acie.

By terrell barron

November 28, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

Woody must hate Salim. We needed a scorer out there and he still refused to play him. What an idiot! O.K., I just heard he was a little shakin-up, but I’ve seen it enough to know that he still would’t have played him anyway. I would start him anyday over AJ. JJ would’t get double teamed as much. This would be the time to see what we had in Salim, being that Acie is hurt, but Woody still refuses to play him. Good win though, I think.

By doc

November 28, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

sekou, kinda said it earlier and in a last post for the last blog.

obviously smith has become a better player with a better handle than he was last year but he is forcing it to become the next labron instead of playing the best game for himself and his team. he is either going to get it or the team will continue to flounder, it may be too much to expect from the shoulders of a 21 year old, it is what the broken atlanta spirit and bk bargained for and do like astro hounded folks to do, get a vet that can be a leader we have instead rens.

it would help to go out and get brown who played a role like that for the bulls last year if he is still available and should have convinced him he would be wanted here before the season started. that is the type guy to have on the bench for 15 minutes a game or the occasional time the young kid needs to sit and watch for a game or too until he “gets back into the rhythm” for the team.

t w that wasnt a prediction but more an example of how quickly it could turn. i will be pleased if we are healthy and at 13 to 14 wins by the end of the year.

By doc

November 28, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

seems like schultz has picked up on our inconsistent theme.

By doc

November 28, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

seems like schultz has picked up on our inconsistent theme.

By JerryWest

November 28, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

Woodson thinks like Lue.

There is no offensive game plan. Nothing.

How does this man has a job?

By JerryWest

November 28, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

Nobody should give the ball to Smoove with less than 4 seconds left.

He should never stand outside the 3 pt line.

Jump shots - Banned.

By John

November 28, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

Does Josh Smith remind anyone else of Andruw Jones, or is it just me? Both ridiculously talented. Both became pro far to young. Both always have an annoying grin. Both continue to do the same thing (ie. pull the ball or take long rang jump shots). Both refuse to stop doing those things.

By terrell barron

November 28, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

My All Star starters; East: 1-J.Kidd, 2-D.Wade, 3-L.James, 4-K.Garnett, 5-D.Howard West: 1-S.Nash, 2-T.Mac, 3-K.Bryant, 4-T.Duncan, 5-A.Stoudemire Should be a pretty good (exibition) this year.

By new jersey faithful

November 28, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I mentioned this in the last blog, do you know if these guys get along? Is there any camaraderie among these teamates? Hearing this stuff about Mario getting ‘the business’ and no one seeming to care really makes me wonder…….

By terrell barron

November 28, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

Hey John, you forgot to mention that they both play outstanding defense.

By THE Hawks Fan

November 28, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

If we stay around .500 and STEAL a few, we could really be ok. Just keep trying to Runnn. Mario West hasnt slowed down since he put on Hawks jersey. Reall happy for him. Nothing but hard work. Salim is hurt and needs to heal.Due to the miles AJ and Lue will struggle but are still big time vets. Josh Smith was posting up and looked good doing it. We have to get Joe Johnson some rest. Zsa Zsa trying to playing right. We might reallly be a good team.Goooo Hawks!!!!

By terrell barron

November 28, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this

Lets see, we trot out Anthony Johnson with T.Lue backing him up while Orlando starts Jameer Nelson with Carlos Arroyo backing him up. How are we supposed to keep up with the best in the Southeast. I cant wait until we play the Magic. It will be like a Father-Son matchup.

By Professor

November 28, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

…….

By cp

November 29, 2007 12:24 AM | Link to this

I thought i was the only one who noticed that Josh Smith wasnt throwing down those monster dunks he is known for. Is he trying to show people he is more than just a dunker? I hope not. He has to realize he cant worry about that tag and dunk the damn ball if he has the chance… The kid really is the b ball version of Andruw Jones in a sense (Andruw would come to camp out of shape damn near every year. Smith stays in shape). Both are extremely talented but its something that holds them back from being even better. I really hate to hear that this team might not get along. Whats going on with that? We really need Law back and i still dont like Woodson substitutions.

By Lil E

November 29, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

A big step in the right direction would be to fire Mike Woodson. If there are any reps from the Spirit Group floating around here, then keep that in mind for the next meeting.

By HB Ando

November 29, 2007 1:00 AM | Link to this

Now I’m confused. Doc gives props to Joe, for calling for a more veteran team, within mere hours of Joe asking for patience to develop Law, rather than seeking out a rapidly established guy like Calderon.

I know I’m kind of slow, but, even with that acknowledgment, I’m baffled.

6-8, with a bullet for being on the outside, looking in, when it’s down to the top eight in the East.

Again, I ask, where are all the 40+ prognosticators? And how can I get what they were smoking?

By G Money

November 29, 2007 7:09 AM | Link to this

What we’re all seeing is a team with potential to do even better sputtering for reasons unknown. Unfortunately, when you have the talent and teams aren’t performing, it’s usually a sign of poor coaching.

If the team continues to play like it does, it will be a 35 win season. If they find the chemistry/unity and the right game plans/systems for the players we have they can approach the play-offs. It’s all on Woody whether he’s in control or not. Friday is going to be a real test with NO. You don’t even have a clue who’s going to show up for the game. How long does it take to establish an identitiy?

By kwooden1

November 29, 2007 7:33 AM | Link to this

HAWKS WIN! I couldn’t find the strength to blog after the lost to Chicago, I heard the first 5 minutes, which sound good, but when I can back around an hour later, everything was over. It was a great win last night to makeup for a bad second and third quarter the night before. Do anyone know what happen to Marvin? I like the fact that team lost another player, but found away to win and win going away. If they keep wining that a coaching change will probably not happen until over the summer, so it’s a catch 22. Either way, I think that their learning to play good defense together and begining to share the ball. I hope Woody has a good plan for Hornets game, we have no one that can slow down CP!

GO HAWKS!

By doc

November 29, 2007 7:41 AM | Link to this

it is not how you win but the will to win. sometimes that is part of the learning and growth process.

By Willie Coyote

November 29, 2007 7:43 AM | Link to this

Josh is trying too hard to be a scoring threat. when he’s not forcing drives and hanging around the 3-pt line, he does a lot of damage. the way he’s come out this year is really hurting this team offensively more than it’s helping. His defense has been out of this world though.

There has been debate over which guy should play the 3, Josh or Marvin. Marvin is definitely more fluid offensively and should be the unquestioned second offensive option on this team. I’m not sure if he is under instruction to defer to Josh, if he’s too unselfish, or (most likely) this team’s crap offensive style is holding him (and others) back. Regardless, if he can’t be more assertive offensively, then there is no advantage to him over Josh at the 3 (assuming this team ever goes out and gets a center and moves Al to the 4).

Marvin, stop deferring to your teamates. take the ball to the basket and shoot your shot. Offensively, they (minus Joe) should defer more to you. Go out there and get 20 per game.

By bwtbird

November 29, 2007 8:01 AM | Link to this

Ando: I’m one of those 40+ prognosticators…albeit with the caveat of Woodson allowing or better yet pushing the team to play to their obvious strengths…either he is unable or unwilling to do so apparently…he has to be the least successful coach in the history of the NBA to last this long…with such an imposing group of athletes. And again the salient part of my point is still true…the conference is simply not that good i.e. the Hawks are still a 3 or 4 game win string away from the MIDDLE of the playoff picture not the bottom

By St. Bernard

November 29, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this

Who do we bring in if we fire Woody? It has to be someone who doesn’t want a big paycheck and knows how to motivate and teach uptempo play.

By doc

November 29, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

the converse is true that they are just a four or five game losing streak from the bottom. it is a long season and it seems like it will be torturous and it is still early. heh heh

as long as the team does not fall too far behind nothing will happen in the way of change period, coach or personnel. if there is a loooong streak of losses i expect the team will bring in one of the assistants to ramp up play and communicate a little differently to see which of these guys have a motor, a head or a heart.

By smartguy

November 29, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

SPIRIT SUCKS!

GET A COACH WITH A CLUE!

By MannyT

November 29, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

Ando, Prognosticator 41-41 blogging in for duty

I stand by my pick. The current team will be inconsistent and drive everyone crazy.

All that said—they can and will be up and down consistently. Some nights they will battle the best and win—other nights they will battle the worst and lose.

The thing that will provide an upswing is slightly better health. The Hawks have a good variety of weapons. While I cannot promise that they will be used well, the injuries have allowed different players to get on the court, like Mario last night.

If someone on the coaching staff can figure out which guys to play to get a consistent mismatch during a game, we could see an even better season.

Besides, how much worse can employee #5 shoot from the outside. If it does get worse—he gets an extra gig as one of those Home Depot shooters ;-)

By Dan

November 29, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

Josh Smith continues to shoot those jumpers because Mike Woodson allows him to. If you are familiar with the movie Major League, you know that Willy Mays Hayes had to do push-ups every time he hit a fly ball. The same type of rule should be in place for J-Slop. Every jumper he shoots should result in 20 pushups.

Also, that guy should have went to college. I remember last year there were people on here talking about how they can’t watch the college game because the level of play was bad. I don’t agree, but fine. You can’t tell me, however, that guys don’t develope in college. You want to know why Al Horford looks so sound and always plays tough and within himself. That’s because he had three years of college and was able to be coached up and developed.

Josh Smith received none of that, and it shows. You think Tom Izzo would let him stand out there being lazy and shooting crappy jumpers? H#ll no he wouldn’t! Also, I would love to see J-Slop throw one of his temper tantroms on Izzo or another quality college coach. They would rip him apart.

Smith is just a waste of talent. I may be alone on this, but I don’t want him back after this year. You can argue his stats all you want, but the guy is not a winner. He just isn’t. No way you can spend max money on a spolid brat like that.

By Mike

November 29, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

This team will continue to be inconsistence as long as Woodson is the coach. I stop watching the Chicago game at the half because I knew we had given them a win. Somebody in the Hawks organization have to address the lethargic play of this team, and for haven sake benched Josh Smith when ever he take those ill advised jump shots of his, which is often.

Man the more you see Al Harford the more you love this guy. That play when he grabs the rebound and finished with a pass to Mario was priceless. The guy is winner.

We all know Woodson can’t take this team to the next level, and obviously the Spirit and BK don’t give a D@M. Woody deserves credit for starting Mario, but that’s about it. When Josh Smith decide to take the game of basketball more serious, he could one of the most dominate players in the league. Of course that goes back to coaching.

I still read the blogs everyday but I don’t post because I’ve had all of Woody I can take. I love the Hawks and I will always support them, but it time for Woodson to go.

Oh Yea, It’s nice to see another Salim fan on blog.

Happy Holidays to all the bloggers and their families. You’re still the best Skeou.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Astro Joe

November 29, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

Ando, they’re 1 game off the pace to a 41 win season after playing more of the first 14 games without Zaza and Law. I don’t believe they will win 41 games but they’re closer to the optimists predictions than they are to mine (or yours). And I’d trade Smith in a heart beat for the right veteran. I’ve seen him play over 200 games now, that’s a slightly different sample size than Law’s 8 games. Slightly.

Doc, PJ Brown would be ideal for this team, assuming that he would have the requisite internal desire to deal with his immature teammates. It feels like the whole team is in the midst of a pity party. JJ’s mad that he plays for poor owners, Smith & Chill mad that they play for poor owners. Zaza benched. Law couldn’t get time in 4Q. Lame duck coaching staff. Horford and Marvin were the only guys early on without a gripe.

Again… DYSFUNCTIONAL.

By terrell barron

November 29, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Fire Woody, hire Mark Jackson

By jlewis

November 29, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Sekou

You’re preaching to the choir. What you have just written is what everyone has been saying here for two years, and it’s the coaches fault. Also, I know most of you love Josh Smith, but the players do not like playing with him, his decisions suck the life and enthusiasm out of the team. Pay close attention, you’ll all see it.

By terrell barron

November 29, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Dan I totally disagree. Josh S. is not a waste of talent. Woodson is wasting his talent. There’s a difference.

By terrell barron

November 29, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

I really like J.Smith, but if we could land a legit center or a 1st rdr, we have to look into it. That move would definately open up the door for Horford to thrive at his natural position. I say we either move Smooth to the 3, and trade Marvin and a point guard, or Marvin and Sheldon for a big, or trade Josh for a #1 pick or a legit center. What do you guys think? One more thing, what other coach, besides Woodrow, would continue to allow Smooth to shoot all those bricks?

By I.MUS WRITE

November 29, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Good win last night, thats the way to finish off an pponent….yeah !!! Horford played really good, glad to see him rebound -the last game Milwaukee big man ran wild in the paint. YI?????? jury is in deliberation. Woody needs to give mario more run. That dude is fearless, he may become our bruce bowen. Are my eyes playn tricks on me…. Did Josh go 2 for 12 again, wow thats crazy. STOP SHOOTING….. If Woody wont tell you I will.

By The Dark Karma

November 29, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Sekou states that which has been discussed and is obvious in regards to Josh Smith. His jump shots are always uncontested due to his inordinately low shooting percentage. It is difficult to understand how a player with such passion and ability can exhibit such low basketball IQ. One would not like to believe that he is this unintelligent in the sport. Yet, it is as if he strives to prove it with each and every seriously misguided attempt at a jump shot.

Dedicated practice during the season and during the offseason will be required for Josh Smith to ascend to the next level.

The comparisons of Josh Smith and Shawn Marion are nice at face value, but must stop. While the resulting numbers are somewhat comparable, the numbers behind them are not. Marion is a clear double-double player. While scoring the same amount of points, he averages over 11 rebounds per game. Smith averages the same points, but just over 7 rebounds per game. The more telling difference is the shooting percentages. Josh Smith has an overall field goal percentage that is only a few percentage points over Shawn Marion’s three point shooting percentage. Marion has a field goal percentage that is consistently near or over fifty percent. Marion only scores the same as Smith because he plays on a team that has many more scorers, and he is not called upon to score twenty or more points per game. Marion also blocks less shots because of Amare Stoudamire’s presence. Stoudamire is the true big man and interior enforcer. To rely on Marion for the bulk of such work is folly.

The difference is ability to make shots, and better shot selection. Smith has no grasp of this concept, and will not be on the level of a player like Marion until he does. The rhetorical question that remains is will he do so?

Even an organization such as this will see these things. This is why Josh Smith was not signed for such a large sum of money. He has yet to earn it. He will not be named an all-star this year, though he will receive votes. Once more his alleged lack of basketball intelligence overrides his physical ability, as it always will. One would hope, however that he begins to learn that which he needs to know most. In the end, a player with such skills will have a longer and more productive career. At the pace Smith has chosen, his career will be shorter with more flash. This will not translate to winning unless he is placed on a team that is better balanced and can harness what he has to offer for the purpose of winning. Right now, the Atlanta Hawks are not such a team.

By JerryWest

November 29, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

OK, the owners don’t have the money to buy another coach.

Can we just have NO coach. Let the players talk about the half time adjustments.

At half time, the announcers said that the coach told the players to keep doing the same things. They didn’t prepare for all the adjustments Bucks were going to make at half time. Can’t think one step ahead.

By ray

November 29, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

Nice to get the win against Milwaukee, but still don’t understand what happened against Chicago.

Zaza seems to be doing better. While I still hate the idea of beating Horford to death by making him start at center all the time, maybe Zaza does need to come off the bench.

Josh continues to fill the stat sheet. That’s like a cliche now, isn’t it? Geez, I wish he’d either buy a jumper somewhere or quit shooting it. He really could get 20ppg if he would just go to the hole more. It’s not like opposing teams can really stop him. Not consistently, anyway. I’ve been out of town in a rather sterile environment (read: law enforcement training course) so I haven’t been able to see, hear, or even smell the last two games. What happened to Marvin? I see he didn’t play…

Don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m looking forward to Law coming back…and hoping he’s not too out of sync. Either way, hope he comes back completely healthy. To do otherwise is never a good thing, particularly doing your rookie year.

By ray

November 29, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

JerryWest, here’s an idea. Fire Woody, promote Drew, use part of Woody’s salary chunk to give Drew a raise.

Astro Joe, I see what you’re saying, but with the horrible inconsistency of the team, how can we even say what the team is on pace for? They could lose 4/5 straight games any time. On the other hand, I don’t see them as good enough to win 4/5 straight games. Frustrating. I sitll say coaching change and serious personnel changes are in order.

However, if we’re going to have to lose a ton of games for that to happen…well that both does and doesn’t give us something to look forward to. Ugghh…

By Ryder

November 29, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

I guarantee you that’s why BK wouldn’t let anyone talk to Larry Drew. Drew is Plan B once Woodson gets the ax midway through February. What will happen then is that the Hawks will begin to see better ball movement and an up-and- down style. Oh, I can’t wait for the bloggers to come out the woodwork by then.

Until that happens, though, I have to grudgingly give Woodson credit for putting Mario into the lineup last night. His hustle and fire will hopefully rub off on these guys.

I can’t believe Zaza actually had a decent game and I wasn’t screaming at my computer while listening, waiting for him to botch up another possession with his desire to flop instead of blocking.

Good to see that Josh was able to remain active on the defensive end while his shot wasn’t working (more layups please?) and overall a good win for a team that hasn’t had many this year.

Friday will be very interesting should Acie come back against Paul. If he gets dominated by CP3 I will cringe to see the responses.

By randy

November 29, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Smitty says once Acie Law returns, the run-and-gun Hawks will also return. We shall see.

And I agree with Sekou, JSmoove needs an intervention to give up jump shots. Wasn’t he working on his post game this offseason?? He never posts up, its either jumpshot after jumpshot or a running layup/dunk (which isn’t a bad thing, he is so athletic, posting up isn’t so much his style).

I am hoping things start coming together when Law returns, but I am sceptical that much has changed this year.

By randy

November 29, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

SEKOU, you should also have mentioned Marvin. He plays to lethargic, he has to make more of an effort to get open instead of standing around waiting for the ball. I have seen this for the past 3 years in him. Someone needs to light a fire under his a* and make him hustle cause this guy just completely disappears at times. And he is a good shooter so he should shoot more. You know when Josh Smith is take twice as many jumpers as Marvin in a game something is definately wrong.

By Omnihawk

November 29, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

The reason the players don’t get along is that they are not winning. When you fail to live up to the expectations of all this talent, everyone gets frustrated. It isn’t complicated. Trading JS for a center would help, but not solve the problem. Get a coach that pushes the tempo, breeds confidence, and gets these guys winning, and they will be all smiles. Please fire Woody. Today.

By Tap Daddy

November 29, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

I was once told by a coach “winning” is the best deodorant because it really hides what stinks….and although i’m glad we were able to get the win last night I hope the coaches have them in the office right now looking at that game tape last night and trying to figure out ways they can improve, especially on the offensive end. And to all of you Josh Smith lovers out there, do you guys realize we might have the lowest field goal percentage shooting starting power forward in the league right now? What other starting four man is shooting 36 percent from the field? Please check the stats and let me know…I say we move him before the trade deadline and let some other team over spend for him this off season. Marvin is the 3 of the future for us and Horford the 4 of the future, period, and i think every game that goes by where he continues to shoot a horendous percentage just proves my point…. see, some players understand the game and some just never get it…with this being his fourth year i’ve drawn the conclusion he just doesnt get it. It’s not okay to be 6’9 with that kind of speed, quickness, and athleticism and continue to just jack up long shots..That’s not playing to his strenghts and that’s not smart basketball. Enjoy the win fellas but dont be fooled by this one game. There’s a bunch if issues on this team that need to be addressed, starting with (new nickname for that awful jump shot) “Broken” J Smith …..

By Tap Daddy

November 29, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

here’s where he ranks out of PF from Espn on field goal percentage..check out this link

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbafgpct&league=nba&split=0&sort=fg%&avg=none&qual=true&season=2008&seasontype=2&pos=pf

By JJ

November 29, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

I agree tap daddy we need to trade Osh SMith( I left out the J cuz he doesn’t have one) He is shooting 36 % and he is playing power forward. He sucks on offense. When we trade him Al can move to his natural position.

By Tyger

November 29, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Hawks v. Bucks

Last nights win was needed, but it was like making up with your girlfriend. It’s appreciated and a step in the right direction, but alls not forgotten.

There are many problems here and they start at the top.

The ATL Spirit is a mess. They are in limbo and cant be taken seriously at the negotiating table. Who do you talk to? BK, Belkin, or the Supreme Court?

Since JJ, they havent acquired one player of any significance outside the draft. Thus, Ty Lue, AJ, Lo Wright and Mario West. Not exactly fortune changers.

So, BK is left filling “all” holes by draft or refugee. So, they stretch for Shelden and pass on Roy and Gay, both uber-talents that are a better fit and or wouldve been much easier to deal later.

Woody still coaches like he has a veteran 8 man rotation, which he does not. His dismissive approach to Salim, Solomon shows his inability to adapt to his team. Instead, he moans about help, but he hasnt yet, maximized what he has.

All great coaches want veteran players, they are expected to win now and veterans know how to win.

Some quality vets would help the Hawks, see Boston, Orlando for examples, but in the mess that is the Atlanta franchise, can you even get anyone of any significance? Probably not.

So, we’re left with a young promising group that doesnt know what it takes to win, has a very low basketball IQ and a Coach that awards minutes based on contract size whether they play well or not.

By Remembering Roundfield

November 29, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

I see that there are others that are beginning to echo what I mentioned a few weeks ago, that Woody is not the answer.The reason Larry Drew wasn’t allowed to leave is because he will become the next coach. The team will benefit from his experience and from his ability to get the best out of each player on the team, not just the stars and first rounders.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 29, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith is going to continue to shoot that awful jumper of his…. Why? because our coach has no nutz.Our leader is not a vocal leader and the rest of the team just submits and lets josh do whatever he wants. I like what i saw in Acie when he got in Josh’s face …. oh wait he’s hurt-dam Woody is here for the rest of the season and thats not going to change. The man must have pictures of BK and The Spirit Group in Magic City….HMMMMM I think Woody is scared of another blow up with Josh. This maybe why he is hesitant to yank him when he is doing dumb things on the court. Has anyone ever seen JJ show any kind of emotion? He reminds me of Derek Mckee-ol stone face

By Astro Joe

November 29, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Tyger, but we ain’t the Knicks.

By Lil E

November 29, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

If Josh Smith were to watch Luol Deng and mimic Deng’s ability to cut to the basket, he would be a force in this league.

By randy

November 29, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

I don’t think trading Josh Smith is a good idea if the Spirit intend to sign him next summer. Yea, his shot selection sucks, but noone can go to the basket and block shots like he can. There is still no doubt, despite his low fg% that he will be an all-star one day very soon and I guarantee once he is with another team playing like a superstar all of you “Trade Josh Smith” guys will be in here telling us how stupid it was to trade Smith.

What I think needs to happen is for Hawks to get a coach that sits Smith everytime he starts settling for jumpshots. That will make him think twice about it. Woody obviously isn’t addressing the problem…I don’t see why they don’t turn over the reins to Larry Drew.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 29, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Josh is never going to be a Shawn Marion or Carmello type of scorer- not even with the right coaching. For the right peice I would definitely pull the trigger on a trade. Right peice = Center: 17pts 8reb and 2 blocks = PG:14- 18 pts 8 ssists The only home town guy im feeling right now is Super Mario. J.Smith is just an athlete IMO, he will be valuable in balancing out this team. I dont think he has the make up to become an elite player in this league. Shot blocking does’nt equal 70 million dollars, 36% definitely does’nt get you a big pay day.If we are going to trade do it sooner than later.We are’nt telivised in alot of major markets, so maybe we can pull a fast one before somebody realizes that he is JUST AN ATHLETE. How many times are we going to use age as an excuse? The guy is 22- should we wait another 4 yrs. Dwight Howard is the same age and giving veterans the bussiness…..He’S young….. pulleez I dont want to give dude away, but if a trade helps team balance and swagger then -just do it

Prediction: C.Paul- 28pts 12 assists and 3 steals. I think Paul is gonna carve our Guards up he may have something to prove, in 2005 I heard him say how he really wanted to be a Hawk -and what did we do-pass him up. How many young players say that….. Yeah he has a chip on his shoulder and we are gonna feel it on friday. This is a winnable game so no excuces…. just win baby

By The Dark Karma

November 29, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

How amusing. It should come as no surprise if Josh Smith gets traded, only to prosper in ways that he would not or has not while playing in Atlanta. It is not always a reflection on the player. It nearly always is a reflection on the organization and the leadership it has at the team, coaching, and management levels.

Smith has not been taught and disciplined as well as he should have been. This is obvious. Such is to be blamed on the head coach. He cannot be sat down every single time he takes one of his patented bad shots. This is because he is too talented to be sat for long stretches. The reason for that is because the team is unbalanced and has near insurmountable difficulties replacing his production, as staggered and ill-team oriented as it is. A properly balanced team would not have such difficulties. Oddly enough, neither of the two issues just mentioned can be dealt with by the player himself. In short, it is largely not his fault or responsibility.

Conversely, asking him to be a leader on this team when he cannot even display proper shot selection is beyond ridiculous.

On the other hand, if Marvin Williams is unable to consistently provide the production he did for the first few games, there will be no purpose in letting Smith go. However, contract-wise Williams has more time to prove consistency in a manner of speaking. In reality, he does not. Smith will either be signed and retained or traded before next season’s beginning. Marvin has all season to prove his worth and to influence whether he becomes the future, or the future trade piece.

One can only hope that Law returns soon and in good form, and that Woodson is jettisoned before the longer losing streaks begin. And they will begin, be assured of this.

By Dap

November 29, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

Our stagnant offense is horrible to watch. We need a floor leader, maybe Law, but JJ should not be it.

Why is Josh the player who gets the ball as the clock winds down? He should be down low. He is the least capable player we have away from the basket.

The Hawks can be good this year, but will never improve without just a little coaching.

Josh Smith is an amazing talent, maybe with another coach who has a clue about offense, he will improve. If he don’t improve then he should be traded.

Again, that staggnant offense almost makes this most loyal fan not want to watch the Hawks.

By Tap Daddy

November 29, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Randy did you call “Broken” J Smith a future all-star? Were so quick to put players in that category who arent deserving..shoot our best player Joe Johnson barely made it last year because somebody (I think J Kidd) had to miss it do to an injury….As great of a player Steve Smith was I think he only made one all star appearance….Only way Smith goes to an allstar game is if they invite him back to another dunk contest..mark my words….

By JerryWest

November 29, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

LOL!!!

Chris Bosh, Garnett, Gasol and Josh Smith have almost the same number of field goal attempts. Unbelievable!!!

By Tap Daddy

November 29, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

jerrywest i’m laughing right there with you….no way in the world should he be putting up those many attempts. It’s gonna be a looooong season for us Hawk fans if that continues….

By Big G Money

November 29, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

I just get a kick out of all of this “we need a center” stuff. How would you like to have Sene? He just got humiliated along with Petro and Collison. Howard drops 39 on him with 16 boards. That’s a lot of help.

Or maybe we should get Dampier or even his back up Diop would be all right. Al Jefferson spurs the Mavs centers for 31pts and 14 rebounds. I guess they did what they could.

Or maybe we need Stoudemire (even I’d take that one). He gets sent into orbit by who else but Yao. Ming scores 31 and yanks 13 boards.

Gentlemen, it’s not that we need a center. Our frontline does as well as any mid-level team. We need the right center. That is going to cost more than anyone is willing to pay right now. If you look at the stats, Horford is doing as well as any of those others who got dusted last night with maybe the exception of Stoudemire.

We need new school thinking and new school coaching. We’re not getting it and everyone knows it. PJ would be a great complement to the team, I agree. In spot duty he could certainly be the answer. Otherwise, I wouldn’t sell the farm like Chicago did and end up with Ben Wallace. He’d be getting the same treatment on this blog as “Speedy.”

By Tyger

November 29, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

I dont think getting rid of JSmoove is the answer either. He is too talented to toss like yesterdays garbage.

That is the risk, when drafting guys out of high school, they havent been properly coached, but can reap huge rewards later.

Its no coincidence that Jermaine Oneal sat nearly 3 years in Portland before blossoming. He wasnt ready despite his natural gifts.

In Smoove’s case, he was immediately tossed into the fire and wowed the league with his dunks, blocks and athleticism. But he hasnt managed to harness his gifts and use them to the benefit of his team on a nightly basis.

But how do you reign him in after basically gift wrapping a starting position to him; and without better alternatives?

Do you cut his minutes and risk losing even more games? Its a pickle, to say the least.

I would package ZaZa, Chills, Salim for Jermaine Oneal, Artest or even Jamaal McGloire.

The main problem with the Hawks is that they are soft and those guys would bring a veteran grit to this team that you could build around.

But thats difficult too, when you have a 7ft shotblocker in Solomon that cant even hit the floor despite still having a doughnut in the middle.

Its crazy!

By I.MUS WRITE

November 29, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

If the problem with Josh is coaching and we are’nt getting a new coach….. then trade him for a center or a point plain and simple. he’s due for a contract extension this summer-so lets say the owners decide Woody is the guy then what? I’ll tell u what -J Smith will be making 12-14 million with even worse shot selection.”HELL I GOT MY 70 MILLION THIS IS MY TEAM, I CAN SHOOT WHENEVER I WANT” Woody on the sidelines whith arms folded and pouting… thats just great.

By Tap Daddy

November 29, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

It’s not about Josh Smith not being talented…it’s about he probably can bring us the back the most value…and with so many similar 3’s and 4’s why not move the one who’s gonna be asking for the most money come the end of the season anyways?

By mykhalc

November 29, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

SEKOU, nice article on ACIE. i CANNOT wait ‘til he gets back out there and jumps in the rest of these non-motivated, non-energized, non-team playin’, non-willing players faces!! gettin’ in ZAZA’s face in practice is ONLY the beginnin’!!! it’s OBVIOUS that the 2 rooks bring a winnin’ attitude and team concept that the others scratch their heads while tryin’ to comprehend!!

give ACIE the damn ball…PERIOD!!!!

By Lil E

November 29, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

We don’t need a big man as bad as we need a new coach.

By JerryWest

November 29, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Since JJ,MW,JS&AH, all 4 can bring the ball up to the front court, and we don’t have a table setter PG anyway, why don’t we just play Mario West at PG and throw off Chris Paul’s game?

With Paul suffocated, they’ll have a hard time. We already have a good 3pt defense to throw off Peja’s game. We shouldn’t let Lue+AJ go near Paul, because Paul could go for 40 on them. Mo Williams just went 9-9.

By MannyT

November 29, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

Unless you are getting a very good center (which is unlikely—not enough to go around) for Josh Smith now, there is no advantage to moving him.

At the end of the season, you have restricted free agent leverage. Right now, you don’t toss out the guy on D that does the most to distract the other team. Hopefully, he learns that going to the basket is a better option in the NBA than camping out for jumpers—true for contract value, true for his skill set.

On the PG front, just make do until we get healthier. Give Law a shot to grow into the job. If Speedy gets healthy he can help. If he doesn’t, you get cap relief in summer 2009 unless someone wants the contract this season and gives value for it.

It is funny that JJ spends a lot of time running the point these days. Not that it is his preference, but that’s what BK wanted when he brought him here. I can see Chills guarding the point on Friday. Without the speed to keep up with Chris Paul, we may as well try size to throw him off.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

November 29, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

DISCLAIMER I’m not John Hollinger, nor some statistical maven who thinks they tell the whole story, but….

I am eager to weigh in on this Smoov debate that seems to be going on. I agree with most of you that he needs to put a lid on his jumper as a weapon strategy until he can devote an offseason to making it what it should/could be. What I disagree with however is that he is keeping us from playing well because of his attempts, or the nature of the rest of his game.

A glance at some numbers:

In our 6 W’s his fga/per is 14. In our loses 7 losses with him in lineup (no SEA game) 15. Whopping I know. There is only a 5% difference in makes between the wins/losses so its aint all jumpers. It would also help that if, as pointed out above, he didnt get the ball with only a few ticks left on the shot clock he wouldnt need to put up some of these shots (insert crying need for a savvy PG here).

Its not about just driving to lane and getting foul shots either. (More numbers)

In the 6 W’s he gets to line 6 per game. In the 7 W’s he gets to line 9 times. The make %’s are (81%) to (71%), so that actually equates to about 1 point of difference since he gets to line more time in losses.

The key stat in my mind is the RBS. When Smoov gets 8+ (or .5 above his avg) we are 5-1. When he gets less than that we are 1-6 (and one of those games he only played 19 min). O

One could use this to say “he needs to be more consistent, less emotional, etc”, OR one could say the squad needs to “man up” and hit the boards themselves.

Dudes like Marvin and even Joe could stand to crash the glass a from time to time instead of stay on perimeter; it’s not as if we’re actually running. All three are basically same height, but Smoov crushes them on the boards out of effort (though less so with Joe since he usually guarding an SG- doesnt seem to stop Chills though….)

Again, Smoov has some growing up to do as a basketball player and a man. He is only 21- same high school class as Marvin and Al, while younger than Acie, Chills, and Joe. He’s pretty close to the player he will be, just needs to work on his efficiency- which he will be when we get a coach to work with him and scheme to fit the team. I’d also like to point out that other than shot clock violations, the other time he jacks is when the offense is “idle”. Running would help cure that.

I know this a long post and I’m sure folks dont even read this, but lets be honest. Is Smoov holding us back with errant jumpers, while leading league in blocks or is the team not performing up to the level they should (Joe’s FG/3pt%, big’s rbs, Marvin’s hustle stats, PG in any category)?

Thoughts?

By Astro Joe

November 29, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

There is no doubt that if Smith is traded, there will be many, many, many nights when he will put up phenomenal numbers and make us think “wow, we shouldn’t have traded him”. Except, when we look and see if his team won. He is among the best stats stuffers in the league and will likely continue to do that. But will his team win? I keep hearing how he is a crowd favorite, but we don’t sellout half of our games. And when was the last time we saw a vintage Smith dunk? Are fans coming to see a block party? Is a Smith block that much different than a block by a defensive center? There is absolutely no doubt that he has immense talent. And he will surely be a SportsCenter regular, especially if he is motivated by a trade away from his friends and family. But will his team win?

By Astro Joe

November 29, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

#21=Top 50,1stBallot, good analysis. And I read every word. No doubt he is not the reason for our sub-.500 record. But assuming that someone will need to go and assuming that all of his great stats have not helped us to a .500 mark and assuming that his faults may not improve (his age excuse is cancelled by his 200+ games of NBA experience), then he seems like a logical choice to be moved.

By Adam M

November 29, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

Let me ask this: if the team could be made better through the trade of Childress or M Williams - who may have as high trade value, remember, because neither will probably command the salary Smith will - would you rather do that?

I’m confused whether folks claiming that they’re ok with trading Smith are actually saying they would rather trade him than Childress or M Williams, or that he’d bring back the most value and thus is the most tradeable. If it’s the latter, I’m not so sure the fundamental assumption is correct; the other two would each command less money in a contract extension, something the acquiring team would clearly be looking to get. And as I see it, one of those small forwards will eventually have to go - it may be any of them, as different factors, like money and trade value and desire to stay in Atlanta will all factor into the decision.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

November 29, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

Joe This actually speaks to my point somewhat. Since everyone is so quick to throw around the Marion, Kirilenko comparisons (quibble over the merit, most people the gist of it) I’ll use them as examples. Both are a great piece to their team, but neither is THE piece to the team. They operate much better when within the concept of a team (both in chemistry and schematically). This is with regards to actual W’s since AK’s stats arent as good since they’ve been winning (Deron Williams anyone….sigh). The stat stuffers do a little of everything to help make difference. It’s everyone else who has to help them in their efforts. They just do what they do. In the absence of a scorer/leader (I love Joe and believe he should have been/should be an all-star with no *) Josh is trying to step up. Part of that is youth, part of that is necessity. Marvin and Chills for most part only like to spot up and Joe is more of a one on one player. That said, WHO’S RUNNING THE SHOW? Notice how when Smoov gets a board he tries to press the action, albeit with mixed results. The reason- NOBODY ELSE WILL. I’d almost say Al is the one second most likely to lead a break. That’s a problem.

Is Smoov indespensable? NO? But to assign him the lion’s share of the blame for the Hawks play is not only inaccurate, it’s irresponsible. I dont know that trading him solo will yield to change the M.O. of this team. We’d still need to run, still suffer on the boards and lack any type of grit/presence (exclude Mario, Horford, and occasional Chills).

Also I only bring up his age to say that even at 200 games, he is still young in mindset, which will help his game become more efficient (in theory) not that he’ll be some exponentially greater/different player.

By Steve T

November 29, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

I do not think doing push ups is the anwser for J Smith. If I was the coach I would like him know up front that if you miss a jumper outside of 15 feet, you will be shooting hit 5 jumpers in a row from each spot after pratice.

I would have a one on one session with him to show him how poor shot selection hurt the team. Right now, his shot blocking, and rebounding is helping the team. If he take better shots the may be the hawks can win 5 in a row.

How soon will Law be back. He was the only PG that could drive the lane. The hawks need that right about now. They need to attack the basket.

By new jersey faithful

November 29, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

By jJP

November 29, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

Why is everyone bashing the Josh Smith when he is the only player that protects the basket. Who cares if he is slow to realize that he shouldn’t be taking jumpshots. His COACH should not have him in those spots on the floor to take those shots. He will be great in the paint in a couple of years. He could be like Robert Horry, Dennis Rodman or a poor man’s Scottie Pippen- if he is coached properly.

He is 21, and no, he is not Dwight Howard or Labron or Carmello but the dude can be a great role player. His shot blocking, rebounding, passing, stealing and 15 points will win a lot more games than anybody else on the team besides Joe. Most of you bloggers talk about points and shots. That’s Joe’s job, and maybe Saleem’s when he is in there. Everybody else can only chip in. Who is going to defend, rebound, and pass- Horford, Smith, Childress, Mario and Acie. All the rest, are useless and thus trade bait. They don’t know when to pass, how to defend, how to play hard, and how to rebound. Quit tearing down Josh Smith. He is not the problem, he is one of the future solutions.

You people keep praising Horford and Law. Smith is younger than they are isn’t he? Any dumbass knows he is taking too many jumpers and doesn’t have good enough touch yet around the rim, but please, somebody show some basketball IQ about the other qualities needed to win games.

By A Thinking Fan

November 29, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

mykhalc I agree - give Law the ball… Woodson even screws that-up sometimes!

By JP

November 29, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

I hear you #21=Top 50!

You are the sharpest commenter on this blog I have ever read. You understand what it takes to win a basketball game. I applaud your insight. Smith fills a valuable role on this team that cannot be easily replaced.

Joe is the deserving focal point. Childress is the consumate 6th man. Horford is a can’t miss power forward. Acie and Saleem have promise. Mario is a nice piece. Smith does five different things well.

Everyone else is one dimensional or no dimensional.

By MannyT

November 29, 2007 7:42 PM | Link to this

I don’t think it is the statistical that ails the Hawks. Wouldn’t you say that there is a degree of concentration/consistency that hurts them. I would also add attitude—they are not finishers. They are missing that NE Patriots up by 20, better turn it on so the opposition loses hope thing.

Also as long as they are not taller and beefier, they need more edge and hunger to get it done. Remember, most of the dominant rebounders have not been the biggest guys around, but they have had that tenacity to get the ball. (Bill Russell, Dennis Rodman—heck I’ll even toss in a Fat Lever here.) The closest we have to that edge—Salim & JSmith.

Get a team shrink before we trade anyone.

By reese

November 29, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this

I’ve only made it through half this blog and I’ve got to go. However, Tap Daddy, I hate to single you out, but there you go again. Tapping around 11 other statistics and focusing on 1. You conveniently leave off the fact that josh is 5th in assist, 1st in blocks, tied for 2nd in steals and tied for 12th for double double among power forwards.

Besides, the players listed as power forward are suspect. They have Al Horford as power forward for rebounds and he plays center for us. They have kirilenko as power forward in assist and he plays small forward.

It has been proven that we can win with J smith shooting poorly. Am I happy with his shooting percentage no. However, I am able to look at the total package and see that he is dominating in other areas.

The problem that I see is that too many other players on this team are not dominating in as many categories as Josh. But I guess its easier in your eyes to focus on 1 piece of the puzzle instead of seeing the entire puzzle.

By The Dark Karma

November 29, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

People continue to miss the point. This isn’t about Josh Smith. This is about the TEAM and this organization. If trading Marvin and JChill gets us what we need and makes us better (significantly better), then that’s the way to go. If trading Smoove gets it done, that’s the way to go. If trading just one of them, or trading one of them in a package gets it done, JUST GET IT DONE!!

As for those who don’t get the idea of acqiring a center: we aren’t talking about just grabbing any old 7-footer. So stop it with your silly crap. We’re talking about grabbing a guy with size/strength, more height than Horford, and some good skills.

Solomon Jones is not a 7-footer, so stop it. We all know what his drawbacks are.

Worse case scenario, you end up with another big power forward (again, more height is a good thing) that can start along with Horford. That’s worse case scenario. Hey, it worked in Detroit with the two Wallaces.

Funny how everybody keeps yapping about Smoove getting rebounds. He does well, sure. Certainly better than Marvin, but not by a wide margin. All the time it’s “Josh is out there doing everything, the rest of the team needs to man up.” Number one, Josh is getting less than 8 boards a game. I don’t call that “all the boards.” Number two, guys like Zaza are the ones who need to step up. Number three (and most important), you have a true power forward out there. A rookie by the name of Horford who, in his rookie year (did I mention he’s a rookie?)is averaging over 10 boards a game. And it doesn’t matter if he starts or comes off the bench. He’s still in the top 15 in the NBA in rebounding. Like I said, people are missing the point.

This isn’t about Josh. He does plenty. But he’s doing things he shouldn’t have to be the primary guy on. Horford is too. Josh gets the stats, Horford gets the assignments (i.e. guard the other team’s bigs). What about the rest of the team?

By Ramon

November 29, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

Smooth does not shoot too much, and lately he hasn’t been shooting too many jumpers (he’s been missing layups and hook shots). Everyone says he should drive more, but how if there is no MOVEMENT offensively? Trying to penetrate against a defense when you really have no play, often times lead to CHARGES and turn overs. If no one else is making anything happen, and JJ is doubled, why not take the shot? The fact that he’s missed so many lay ups shows its not anything physical, its mental at the moment. Rather he’s rushing, or need to settle or whatever, his problem isn’t that he’s this bad of a shooter. His problem will only be fixed with time.

If people want other players to get more shots, tell Woody to speed up the tempo of the game so it can happen. Smooth’s defense, rebounding, and intensity is winning more games, than his shooting is losing. Do you honestly think, Seattle would’ve won with Smooth in the line up?

As I said before, theres not a great player who didn’t take bad shots at some point in time. But a bad shot is only defined by if you can make the shot. By the end of the season, I’m confident Smooth will prove many of you wrong.

By kwooden1

November 29, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

I’m a bit confused about all the trade talk, because trading doesn’t work in the NBA. Minnesota and Seattle didn’t make their trades to get better, they did them to rebuild. The league cleared helped the Celtics (historic franchise). It appears (I actually know nothing about trading in the NBA) that the way to get better is not trading, but acquiring one or two really good free agents. (Orlando, Charlotte, Chicago, etc are good examples) I think the Hawks have a really special core group and JS is the main reason. You have a guy that is a natural SF but leads the league in blocks pre/game. I have know problem with a team with no true center if I have JS. If he learns to work with Horford, they can play the same type of defense as Detroit did with the Wallaces. Its clear to everyone that a change in the coaching staff needs to happen. I think the GM’s last three moves grant him a bit of a break, but the inability of the coaching staff to get these guys in an offense that they are comfortable (after two years) is inexcusable. Give this core sometime to jell and mature, and we should have a very good team for several years.

GO HAWKS!!

By Big G Money

November 29, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith gets more ink on this blog than any other player. WHY??? It just doesn’t make sense. As others have said, he isn’t the problem. I will argue that with Doc, Reese, Ando or whomever. Even Schultz can see what the problem is. I don’t know what games you guys have been watching, but very few (maybe 1) game that we lost could have been because we did not have an adequate big. The other games were lost for other reasons. And we all know that JSmith has not been the reason that we’ve lost the games that we did.

So is all of this because we have nothing else to talk about until tomorrow night?

Sekou, throw us a bone. This is becoming the definition of insanity.

By doc

November 29, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

big g, what are you arguing with? go back and research what i have said and it is virtually everything schultz said before he wrote it along with several others here on the blog. i even used the word inconsistent several times. no josh isnt the problem, never said that. it is the broken atlanta spirit who have taken apart this franchise to nothing then are going through a divorce essentially. can you really argue with that? and i gets worse all the way down, but right now my theme has been a very inconsistent team.

since you never volunteered anything as to what, i ask, what is it the problem? spit it out. throw us one of your intelligent bones so we feast.

By doc

November 29, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

yes astro, at least we arent the knicks. whew, i havent ever seen it that bad. where is samuel today, he has been pretty quiet about his knicks. i am shocked that they are so bad.

meanwhile, some of the vets around the big three of the celts are looking pretty strong. house has been a killer this year, seems to enjoy his role and putting it up with confidence.

By mykhalc

November 29, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

DOC, you used the word ‘will’ earlier and in one of my previous posts i said it was’ lack of willingness’ to play team ball. so until this roster CHOOSES to play like a team then we ARE NOT much better than the KNICKS. in fact from the little bit of the game i did watch i saw disturbin’ similarities between the HAWKS and KNICKS.

neither plays team ball…

lotta one-on-one…

demeanor of players is strikingly the same…

WOODSON and ZEKE also have the same looks on their faces…

yep, hate to say it, but i immediately thought of the HAWKS as i watched the KNICKS!!

By Astro Joe

November 29, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

Doc, it’s incorrect to use proper English when referring to the unrighteousness in NYC.

WE AIN’T THE KNICKS!

By mykhalc

November 29, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

and to add, ACIE will make all the difference in this roster becomin’ a team IF players accept his leadership. obviously, JJ is not a vocal leader and he pouts when things are not as they should be or as he thinks they outta be. so it will take WOODSON totally turnin’ the team over to ACIE if we are to improve. he has that ‘swagger’ as SEKOU stated in his article. and he is not afraid to take or assume command. that’s what leaders do!!!

now whether JSMITH wants to hear it when he gets in his face then that’s what we’re about to see. and i use JS as an example because i clearly have seen him NOT want to hear it from ACIE.

the best thing JJ could do at this point, when ACIE returns, is TOTALLY get his back!!! that in itself would do wonders to help this team start to establish continuity and a focal point for leadership.

like they say, if you don’t wanna lead, then get the hell outta the way!!! AND FOLLOW!!!!

By ray

November 30, 2007 12:31 AM | Link to this

JJ acts like he’d rather play and not talk at all. Missing Law right about now…at least he talks. I think he’s a natural leader. He’ll be fine, but it is his rookie year. Give the guy a chance. JJ probably makes a good captain, just that he’s not vocal enough by far.

By curious

November 30, 2007 1:59 AM | Link to this

Everyone on here talks about how great Horford is. If you traded JS and had to start Al against mobile PFs. He would get destroyed. He can’t guard Dirk, Jamison, Rashard Lewis, Shawn Marion, David West, Al Harrington. He cannot move his feet on the perimiter to guard any of those guys away from the rim. I like Al and he should play 35mpg. He is not a pure 4 or 5. He is a hardnosed player who deserves to be on the floor. Can someone let me know when Woodson pushes the ball or has a new play because I haven’t seen it yet. I told everybody this summer Woody won’t change. He is getting his money for the year. He knows he won’t be back that is why he won’t do anything different.

By hawks-4-life

November 30, 2007 3:27 AM | Link to this

Fellow hawks, I begin first by saying what we have here is a good mix of players but no team. Granted every player brings his own qualities to the table, JS is simply the best ATHLETE we may have but he is by far not the best player. As someone stated before he get more ink lately here than any other player, we it must be for a reason. Sure we see the talent, the block, the steals and high-flying dunks and while that may be great, its part of the problem. As great as he is, he’s not playing within his comfort zone and idea of the team concept. Sometimes its good to make the RIGHT play instead of trying for the HIGHLIGHT play, which for some reason with him happens at the inopportune time.

However as stated above we have players and no team. This onus falls direction on two individuals, JJ and Woody. JJ is a vet for crying out loud, a vet. Even if you’re not vocal what ever happen to leading by actions. I never pictured him as a vocal guy but to me last year he provided leadership through his play, which this year is uninspiring. Then there is Woody, enough said, this has been beaten to death already.

By Big G Money

November 30, 2007 4:56 AM | Link to this

Doc, My apologies for calling you out. I did so because you, HB and others are like the leaders of the blog. People listen to, are swayed by, and respect your opinions more than others. I personally wanted to stop the avalanche of madness raining down on Smith for illegitimate reasons. If it were legit, I get it. Some of us are fed up with reading about JSmith’s attitude and designation as “Hawks Whipping Boy.”

Additionally, the NBA is becoming more stylistically eclectic than ever before that on any given night, if the players and coaches are aligned, one team may beat another. It isn’t like the old days where it’s either run or play half court ball.

For example, I truly believe that the Hawks could go deep into the playoffs without a “bonafide” center. Examples of this have recently been the Warriors and Suns. They’re also exciting to watch and create interest in the game when one attempts to figure out what strategies each team will use against the other - besides, Nelson is a coaching genius.

For example, we are always talking about the Hawks are unbalanced and we have too many 6-9 guys. The following happened last night (from ESPN): Al Harrington gives up 9 inches and 60 pounds to Yao Ming. Yet by using his quickness to front and harass the 7-foot-6 Yao, Harrington is somehow able to shut down Houston’s All-Star center. Harrington outplayed Yao for a second straight meeting, shutting him down at one end and scoring 18 points on the other to help the Golden State Warriors beat the Rockets 113-94 on Thursday night for their eighth win in nine games after an 0-6 start.

I guess I use these examples to underscore that we have all the parts necessary to win and win consistently in this league. We just don’t seem to have (to your point) a coach who is creative enough or spends the time trying to understand/devise ways to win with what he has. That’s my point - which at the end of the day sounds similar to yours. No disrespect intended.

By hawks-4-life

November 30, 2007 5:16 AM | Link to this

Before this season started I remember saying the one thing i wanted to see most out of the hawks was CONSISTENCY. Its yet to be seen but the good news is we are only 2 games under .500 with room for improvement. Mr. Woodson earn your check!!!

By doc

November 30, 2007 6:42 AM | Link to this

big g thanks for your thoughtful response, articulately put. all is good. i am not desiring to be a leader of this blog, i would think blog z plays that role if anyone. i do like the opportunity to find folks thoughtful and passionate about the hawks and basketball to “discuss” it with. i also try to be accurate and discourage others form inaccuracy as that is only inflammatory, at times injurious and unfair if it is to the individuals on the blog or anyone in the hawks organization. i have been considered everything from a pollyanna about the hawks to a downtrodden negative voice and hater of them all. whatever.

smith is young and plays and acts that way sometimes, he also acts like a leader and a warrior as well and i try to say that. he is what you expect from most 21 year olds. his demeanor isnt exceptional nor is it bad it is what it is. right now he is the epitome of who the hawks are as they flail for an expression if who they are …… inconsistent.

i said back a ways smith can be j slop, smoove, or smash on any given day and i have also said he has improved in many areas of his game between this time last year and now. last year every other time he put the ball on the floor he bounced it out of his own hands, huge difference this year. he is working at his game; at times out of the context of what the team needs when what he is doing aint working on certain nights. that is maturity when you can recognize it and change, it will come and hopefully in a hawks uniform for many year to come. again no truth only opinion, dont anyone confuse it, i know my friends ando or flash wont.

g again thanks for the response.

By Willie Coyote

November 30, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

Man some of you turn on people quick. Now Joe is a baby and a pouter. He plays his heart out and carries this team and for what? He was promised that veteran help would come and it hasn’t. the team plays like a contender one night and then noone shows up the nest two. That would frustrate anyone who has a desire for a championship. Noone who wants to win wants to score 25 and toil away the prime of his career for a team that is not willing/able to put itself in a contending position.

By hawks-4-life

November 30, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

Willie C that is understandable but with the way the season started witht the two wins over the Mav and Suns can you tell me he was pouting then. Im sure he wasnt but now that its a lil tough this is where he need to step his play up. Yeah veteran help wouldve been nice but most people in here wasnt complaining much either. My advice to him is one I hear in the army, suck it up.

By smartguy

November 30, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this

I don’t feel sorry for Joe at all. On the court, his defense leaves a lot to be desired, and on offense there can be too much JJ one on one (which leads to the inevitable missed long range jumper).

As far as leadership, he said that he has “tried saying something.” When was that?? I don’t think I have ever seen the guy say more than a few words on the court. If you’re gonna lead, then lead. If not, then follow, or get out of the way. The guy was on the olympic squad and an all star. He needs to act like it when he’s with this team. We all thought that after JJ got back from playing with the national team he would be a different leader. Well, he is just the same old Joe.

I love Joe Johnson. I love what he does on the court, and I like his unusually quiet personality. But, when it comes to the Hawks’ lack of success, Joe needs to take a note from Sekou: check the mirror.

What knid of team leader questions the the quality of the roster on the eve of the season opener????????

By hawks-4-life

November 30, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

WELL PUT SMART GUY.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 30, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this

Upon his return Acie should be our srarting point for the rest of the season. Acie brings a sort of calmness when on the floor,This maybe why JJ and Josh seemed to be pouting in the beginning of the season. Think about it If your PG runs the team the right way there is less one on one play and fewer turnovers. Josh does’nt want to give up the ball on the break and JJ seems content on getting his 20 through a variety of and one moves. I think Acie’s presence limits these things. GOOD…….. run some plays. Mario needs to start tonight im sure he can give CP3 some problems like he did with Ginnobilli

By I.MUS WRITE

November 30, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

Good Stuff Smart Guy, JJ needs to get some fire like Kobe or Bron Bron. Yeah I couldnt believe he went there the day before our first game. Didnt understand that, you had all summer to speak out. What did he expect to accomplish by doing that.

By doc

November 30, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

after listening to steve smith on the am radio and hearing comments about shels from the talk host i all of the sudden had the thought of how would a cox like guy handle these young fellows. how would he teach them and utilize them without destroying their confidence but more importantly their trust in him. shels and salim fall into that category, talent that has gone the other way. only have to look to diaw and ivey to maybe begin to see a trend of how young guys are going to respond when managed in a certain way. say what you want about cox’s ability to manage a game in the playoffs but he has a huge talent for managing the season and individuals. i can NEVER remember a significant player trashing him on the way out.

By Astro Joe

November 30, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Doc, can you share some of the discussion about Shelden that prompted that comment about Bobby Cox? I missed the drive-in show this morning. I’m guessing Steve Smith was probably good in that spot… balanced, I hope (not a cheerleader like ‘Nique on The Zone).

Back to your Cox theory. I think Woody has some “fatherly” qualities, like the way he tries to expose his players to issues/ideals that ate bigger and broader than just basketball. But ultimately, his firm hand has not led to results on the playing field, which is why Cox has enjoyed so much success and undying admiration. If he stubbornly maintained his platoons, his bias toward vets (like Woodward last year) and his wait for the homer offensive strategy over a prolonged stretch with no playoff appearances, then fans, players and media alike would question his adaptability and coaching skills.

By Tap Daddy

November 30, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

reese I dont mind being called out cause yeah I have been pretty rough on Josh Smith..but I just think his negatives out weigh the positives, by far..I probably dont critique other players as much because I think they are playing the roles assigned to them, I mean I cant knock AJ for not being an elite point guard, that’s just not him… I think Josh just does his own thing and it drives us fans, his teammates and coaches crazy..maybe it’s Woodson not using him correctly (and i have also bashed Woodson for his use of him)but I just dont like anything about what Josh brings to the team offensively….but your are absolutely right, he is a great team defender and i would just like to see him focus more on that….Do you reese think we can have a successful season with him being our second option?

By ray

November 30, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

G Money, I figure Josh Smith is getting the whipping boy treatment largely because he is the most flamboyant and even dynamic player on the team. That doesn’t make him the best player, just the one that is getting the most attention. He has so much emotion and he plays with it. JJ would get this attention, but he acts like he’s playing a poker game. Josh has the most fire. Few guys are matching his dynamic personality. Acie Law is one guy who comes close in his own ways, as is Josh Childress. Even Horford, despite his abilities, is not as “out loud” as Josh is. So is it fair? No. Is it the way it is? Definitely. I think having Acie in there helps, because then Josh doesn’t have to push the ball all the time.

Curious, you gotta be kidding. You almost make Horford sound like a scrub. Not quick enough? This guy can start and finish a break, and has proven it. Woody rarely lets him. Know why he doesn’t guard Dirk, Marion, Rashard, and Harrington? Because Woody doesn’t let him. Woody has that kid playing down low against opposing teams’ biggest and toughest post players, be they center or power forward. He’s never called upon to guard the more perimeter-oriented PF types because we need him down low so bad!

Again, the guy is forced to do the things our biggest guy is supposed to be doing (Pachulia). He’s playing against the best big men the league has to offer, doesn’t even start every night, but plays the bulk of the minutes at center. He gets almost no offensive plays run for him (Pachulia gets several)yet still has over .50% on field goals and nearly averages a double-double. The guy is a freakin’ stud. In spite of Woody and everything else.

Besides, how many other teams do you see taking their best post defender/rebounder and putting them on an opposing team’s most dangerous perimeter big men? Do you see Duncan guarding Dirk? No. Do you see Howard guarding Harrington? No. Do you see Okafor guarding Marion? No. How about Shaq or ‘Zo on Rashard Lewis? NO. It’s called match-ups.

By doc

November 30, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

aj i am not sure if i missed the point when you made reference to woodward, if i am not correct cox has had more than a few guys up from aa ball succeed as well as escobar and johnson last year and he has continued to utilize woodward as he knew he needed him in some capacity even though he was in an off year or the last year.

i think what cox does extremely well is coach them to have confidence in themselves, playing them consistently. ultimately that translates into their success on the field when it is show time. woody has done tremendous stuff with the guys off the court, no doubt. i just think that his approach is so inconsistent with playing time that the guys ultimately try too hard to please and therefore dont give it their best if that makes any sense. in other words guys like shels and salim know that there is a short leash if they make a mistake whereas josh con miss all the downtowners he wants and he wont miss playing time. balance is what is lacking i guess. and i am not shooting down josh but we have all sat there and wondered about the imbalance of playtime even in games lost. again i dont know if woody sets his guys up to succeed.

aj i just heard the tail end, ultimately he said the upside on josh would probably make others more “expendable” down the road. it sounded like a very honest interview and i am sorry i missed it.

guys ultimately this is and can be josh’s team, he is that good and that talented if he takes it upon his shoulders to do the dirty work and lead by example and ability. he also has to let others do their thing and be leaders as appropriate like acie and listen to feedback from his teammates. that is where maturity will become important.

By Russ

November 30, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

Sekou, You should know enough from watching ZaZa over the last 2 years to know the guy can’t finish in traffic with a dunk. He goes to the finger roll b/c that he’s got. ZaZa can only dunk if no one is in his way. Pretty sorry for 6’11” guy, I know. Horford on the oher hand is a beast who thrives under contact, unlike ZaZa.

Sekou, you should also have the knowledge to know it is impossible to run a up tempo system with AJ and Lue (2 walk it up PGs) as the your PG / engine to run the team.

Sorry excuse for an NBA beat writer. You would think after having this as our full time job for so long you would have learned enough to pass a basketall 102 class by now. The basketball 101 level does not cut it for your profession. The AJC needs to hire some one who has a clue about the game of basketball.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 30, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

This summer i was all for getting Josh extended,now im not so sure. If he does’nt improve any, we have to trade before the february deadline. Some people here seem to think that another coach or an elite point guard will bring out his game….wrong I dont think his game will ever consistently be 20 /9/4 until he realizes who he is, An ATHLETE who gets points around the basket,tip ins and dunks. No doubt he’s going to get better, but once again for the right peice make the trade. If Smoove was in New Orleans w/h B.Scott coaching him up he would still be a third potion behind Paul and West. In Utah with J.Sloan he’s a third option behind Boozer and D. Will…… HMMMM sounds like Ak 47 to me, no real O but lots of energy and blocks. If you cant score the ball in this league you will forever be a role player. Highly paid role player,But still a role player. If Josh get’s traded I am positive when he comes back to phillips he is gonna kill us -maybe (30/12/5)-But its okay as long as the person we trade for helps us win more games. Thats what itz all about right? Just win baby HAWKS!!!!

By I.MUS WRITE

November 30, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

OMG!!!!! RUSS is going off!! 101 102???? Hey RUSS if you honestly feel like you can do Sekou’s job better then drop a resume -lets see that. Doubt if it will happen- but if it did the first time you post some garbage here -these guyz are gonna be all over you - i mean all over you man so stop.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

November 30, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Russ- Not sure if you wrote that just to solicit a response, but I’ll take the bait. First of all Sekou is actually one of the better beat writers there are- per Lang Whitaker as well and several others comment on it. Blog Z on the other hand….. Ha. I’m inclined to disagree with him from time to time (re: Smoov) but that’s half the point.

Secondly, AJ actually can run the uptempo scheme, he’s pushed the tempo in preseason as well as in limited spirts. Lue can run as well, he just chooses not to- instead opting for 19ft j’s with 18sec on the shot clock or dumping the ball into a big with 5 sec on shot clock.

Trading Smoov this season makes no sense. We will be in the middle of a playoff run (RISE UP!) and he is still under rookie contract so the math wouldn’t work for commensurate talent. We dont “need” draft picks at this point, though I concede that we will need to move either Smoov or Marvin at some point (next two seasons) to free up Al at the 4. I think we can keep Chills because he plays a combo game of both(boards and shoots efficiently). We will struggle with PG all season as Law will have to learn ropes, but hopefully the investment will pay. The only move I could see/like making is acquiring a role playing banger for toughness.

By Khao$

November 30, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Rayyou just posted one of the most logically assessments of Josh Smith on this board. Either people make him out to be the next Jordan or blame him for all of the Hawks flaws. The truth of the matter is, Josh is still a VERY important cog on this team. Even with the clashes he and Woody have had, he still gives Josh significant minutes (2nd next to Joe). Given Woody’s personality, he’s not going to play somebody because of fan outcry. Woody plays the guy, despite his poor shooting, because he’s the one guy (Horford can be added to the list) who doesn’t like to give up easy layups on the defensive end. Given the amount of steals he has, he’s active in the passing lanes. Most of his teammates don’t have those attributes. So Woody lives with his poor shooting. He also knows Josh will be aggressive when no one else (outside of Joe) will be. Are the results always the best. No. They can be maddening. However, if a true basketball fan wants to see the difference that Josh makes, checkout how PG’s drive through the lane on us when he’s out. I don’t care if his blocks are from the weakside…5 blocks are 10 points you’ve prevented the other team from having.

That said, yes, his shooting must improve. But to tag the Hawks woes on him solely (as some bloggist seem to do) is wrong and misinformed.

When it boils down to it, the Hawks need an on-court leader (I’m not even going to bring up the need for a coach). They need someone who isn’t afraid to get in somebody’s face when they make the bad plays Smooves makes. I remember Jordan chewing out Pippen on a bad shot he took…and MADE! He chewed him out because, percentage wise, he doesn’t stand the chance of making that shot more times than not. Nash does it. Paul is doing it. D. Williams is. I’ve seen Duncan do it. Lebron does it. TMac does it (on occasion). Heck, even Rajon Rondo is learning! My point, no matter the position, the team needs a leader. Until that happens you’ll see Smoove take bad shots, JJ and Lue dribble the clock down to 2 seconds, and no one feed Horford in the post. The Hawks issues are deeper than just one person.

By Astro Joe

November 30, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

Imagine being a Knicks fan this morning, after last night’s nationally televised slaughter.

I haven’t read anyone claim that Smith is the root of the Hawks problems. He is one of the very few players in this league who can alter a game defensively. Bruce Bowen is a heralded defender but he can’t disrupt an entire offense like Smith has done previously.

Let’s assume that Smith is comparable to Dennis Rodman (on the court not the nonsense off the court). Rodman owned every loose ball, could play above average defense of the perimeter and was an absolute beast in the post (remember how effectively he used to guard Shaq?) But Rodman on a 30 win team is a luxury (or a waste depending on your perspective). He’s an expensive set of high performance tires on a car with bad brakes. You trade those tires for a set of excellent brakes and pick-up some average tires and your car is better off in the long run.

By smartguy=moron

November 30, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

Smartguy: Having wet dreams about Josh Smith and trashing every other Hawk since 2004.

By mykhalc

November 30, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

first all, good posts BIG RAY, DOC, JOE, I.MUS WRITE, hawks-4-life, smartguy, etc. all good points and well stated!!

now, Mr. Willie Coyote, since i threw out the pouter reference, i’ll take the bait.

now this is strictly my opinion. i luv JJ’s game and no i’m NOT turnin’ on him. but do i think he could step up??? YES, absolutely!!! JJ signed on to be THE MAN!!! and regardless of what he was promised, i think he took the CASH AND CHALLENGE AS IS!!!! he probably has all the right to be disappointed. i know when i’ve been promised certain things in the field that i work in, and those things did not come thru i’m as PO’ed as the next person. but you can’t take it out on the people in the trenches with you. you take out on the people in charge, if anyone!!

again IMHO, JJ just needs to adopt AI’s stance before his trade to DEN. JUST LEAVE ALL OUT ON THE COURT!!! we all want changes to make the team better, no doubt. but ask people like Jhan and Volman, if as season tix holders they wanna see anybody, especially JJ, not leave it all on the court.

if JJ’s pi$$ed then he needs to do somethin’ he hasn’t been doin’. and again IMHO that somethin’ could be become more a vocal leader!!! afterall, he’s probably askin’ all the other cats to bring somethin’ to the table that they did NOT bring last year. so JJ is NO DIFFERENT!!!

i’ve gotten 2 different takes on JJ in regards to what he thinks about ACIE from SEKOU’s articles. first on, at the start of the season, when his bottom line was, ACIE is a rook. now from the article yesterday, i think JJ is REALLY READY for ACIE to be at the helm. again just my opinion.

all the cats on the roster need to be ready for a change. they need to be ready for ACIE to make the best b’ball decision durin’ the game. if that means somebody is seein’ less attempts BUT somebody else is producin’, then get over it and get with the new program. this is about ‘TEAM’…PERIOD!!!

and personally i think the 2 rooks might get that more than ANYBODY else right now!!!

By Tap Daddy

November 30, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

We all realize Josh Smith is not the major problem with the Hawks. There point guard play and center position are the real issue. But the reason I choose to bring him up is because this is a problem area that can be addressed right now to help the TEAM. We can all come up with different trade scenerios and talk about them all day, but i’m just saying if Josh toned it down on the offensive end and took better shots and focused more on playing to his offensive strengths we would be a better team right now…I mean, i can dream about Zaza going up strong and trying to dunk on peoples heads but that isnt a realistic thought.I can dream about AJ or Lue playing like a NBA starting caliber but they are who they are…..what is realistic is getting Smith to play to his strengths, what is realistic is getting Marvin to be more aggressive on offense. Those are the things that leave me frustrated as a fan…because those things can be addressed right now and would pay dividends immediately.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 30, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

ASTRO -is right on with the tire and brake analogy. Can we please get some brakes before we rear end sumone. How about Woody coaching our team is like a soap box racer driving a formula one car- pull over before you kill yourself. Man C.Paul just came to my work, he is a cool guy. They seriously add inches to a player CP is 5 11 at best-thatz amazing for the game he has. Message for AJ: CP jus asked me wheres a good place to eat dwn town-he looked pretty hungry.translation: he’s gonna eat your lunch -so break out the geritol u are gonna need it.

By Astro Joe

November 30, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

I.MUS WRITE, that’s why I never get bent out of shape about the listing of player’s heights… because everyone player is about an inch or 2 shorter than advertised. Barkley is closer to 6’4”, Hakeem was closer to 6’10” and even Spud was probably 5’5”. Every now and then, you get a softy like JON or Kwame who prefer to be 6’11” while they clearly look to be a solid 7’0”. I’ve even heard KG say that he is 6’12”. Those cats don’t want to be 7-feet and moved into the C position. WIMPS. Moses Malone, Wes Unseld and Dave Cowans would have put those tall string beans in their back pocket.

By Ken Strickland

November 30, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

IMUS WRITE, if I was coaching the Hawks, I’d use what you just observed against CPaul. We all know about his outstanding gm, OFF gm that is. I’d post him up with JJ and/or AJ on every play and force him to beat me with his DEF. He’d probably be in foul trouble by the end of the half and/or exhausted by the 4th.

Normally I’d acknowledge an outstanding post, but there are just too many. I’d like to see us maximize the talent we have before we start trading it away. I would like to see us acquire another uptempo PG to back up Acie. Let’s hope the Hawks are up to the task tonight. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

By doc

November 30, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

khaos that is a huge assumption that a block equals two points not made. first of all, not all blocks would turn into points, second not all blocks end up in our hands but merely out of bounds for them or into their hands. blocks make highlights, are cool, get the crowd and teammates charged up but in the end they are not always a change of possession. they are over rated, whereas, the offensive rebound puts it back into our hands rather than theirs. i would much rather see a bunch of offensive rebounds instead of several blocks a game.

By Astro Joe

November 30, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Also, since most blocks come from the weakside, the shot blocker is usually leaving his own man within a few feet of the basket to try to block the shot. Unless the team rotates properly, that allows for an easy assist from the ballhandler to the shot blocker’s original assignment. Undoubtedly, we will see that a few times in tonight’s game as Paul penetrates without the slightest opposition into the lane for an easy dish to David West.

By doc

November 30, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this

myk, what you predictin tonight bro? just dont be logical about it as you as sure enough going to be wrong. heh heh

By doc

November 30, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

aj yup good point, over rated but sure does look good. it also means someone hasnt exactly done very well in the way of man up defense if he is flying through the air for 5 blocks per game. how many attempted blocks were there? just isnt meaningful unless it is like the one on dwanyne ….. sweeet!

By Mike

November 30, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

Guys just to show ya I ain’t haten on Woodson, and he needs to be fired, read this article. Either both the Spirit and BK are just as inept as Woodson or they just don’t give a F%ck.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/martyburns/11/29/hawks/index.html?section=silatest

By Sautee

November 30, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

To Tap Daddy:

Among the other things that I saw during the Bucks game, were 2 times Josh drove the lane, drew the defense, and passed to the perimeter for 3 pointers (1 by AJ, one by JJ). It reminded me of a young Grant Hill. On another occasion, he was at the foul line and tried a bounce pass to a cutter that was intercepted. I’m sure that you likely thought “stupid pass” where I actually thought “that was a Jason Kidd kind of vision”.I’m delighted that he has that kind of vision and unselfishness at 21.But you like NOTHING about his game? That said, if we could actually get a valid starting Center for him, I’d say go.

By randy

November 30, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

Damnit ZAZA and Shellhead defend the damn lane!!! If I see Paul get another easy layup I am gonna kick in my TV. I can see this is gonna be another FIRE WOODY!! night.

By Melvin

November 30, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this

Why don’t Woody play Salim tonite. This is the idea team to play him against. Hornets are playing with 2 pt guards in the backcout. Go figure…

By RANDY

November 30, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

Same ol’ story - stupid turnovers. Why aren’t we playing Salim and why isn’t Marvin in there? JChill isn’t doing anything. THis is ridiculous. The only good thing Woody has done this game is catching a Zaza pass. Poor a* substituting and poor a* turnover. FIRE HIM!

By Glutton for Punishment

November 30, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

Melvin - Salim has an bad ankle.

J. Smith is killing me with all the turnovers. He thinks he is a PG. OMG!!! Give up the dang ball.

It is nice that they are feeding Al in the post. He is looking really good. He reminds me of Tim Duncan.

By Ken Strickland

November 30, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

I just can’t believe this. The OFF is having trouble scoring. The Hornets, like Chicago, has small guards and Woodson won’t let Salim in the gm. Also, the Hornets, especially West, is killing us on the boards. This would be a good time to see what SJones can do.

Woodson seems to have decided to shut down the uptempo OFF. He doesn’t seem to realize we’ve been getting our butts kicked on the OFF boards playing his beloved half court OFF. He obviously can’t seem to get beyond that Bobby Knignt, Larry Brown OFF mentality.

By Ken Strickland

November 30, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

I just can’t believe this. The OFF is having trouble scoring. The Hornets, like Chicago, has small guards and Woodson won’t let Salim in the gm. Also, the Hornets, especially West, is killing us on the boards. This would be a good time to see what SJones can do.

Woodson seems to have decided to shut down the uptempo OFF. He doesn’t seem to realize we’ve been getting our butts kicked on the OFF boards playing his beloved half court OFF. He obviously can’t seem to get beyond that Bobby Knight, Larry Brown OFF mentality.

By Glutton for Punishment

November 30, 2007 9:23 PM | Link to this

Another thing… J. Smith needs to LEARN from David West. He stayed down near the paint. Getting alot of rebounds and put backs. They are about the same size, play the same position and was drafted one year apart. Josh has 5 big turnovers. (Heck,, JJ had 5 also)

By RANDY

November 30, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

AL “Windex” Horford cleaning the GLASS!

By randy

November 30, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

CAN ANYONE ON THIS SORRY A* TEAM SHOOT?????

By JohnGTFan

November 30, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

What a second half..lol. I can’t believe I’m still going to go to the game against the Wiz here on Dec 21. Woodson has GOT to go! A REAL coach would do something about this mess; play Salim; put a serious reality check on JS…and that is only the beginning. BK needs to get some help in here quick before JJ just simply plays out his contract and bolts.

By smartguy

November 30, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

YES, randy! Yes! But don’t brake your tv. 24 pts through 18 minutes in the second half. What an awesome coach.

WOODY IS A CLOWN!

WOODY IS A CLOWN!

WOODY IS A CLOWN!

(i still hope we win)

By randy

November 30, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this

THE TEAM PLAYS WITH NO ENERGY, NO ENTHUSIASM, NO HEART!!! THE DON’T CARE, AND I AM STARTING NOT TO CARE EITHER. FIRE WOODY!!

By RANDY

November 30, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

IT IS LIKE THEY DON’T KNOW THE FUNDAMENTALS, ITS LIKE THEY DON’T HAVE A COACH… AH SCREW IT, I am gonna go watch porn.

By Flappin Hawk

November 30, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

Even the most feeble minded basketball fan can clearly see that Woody is inept. Tonight was a mindboggling morass of not taking advantage of mismatches. Even Steve Smith has started to publicly question Hawk strategy from the broadcasting booth. Put Coach Smitty on the bench.

By randy

November 30, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

NO HEART

NO ENERGY

NO ENTHUSIASM

NO LEADERSHIP

By curious

November 30, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

Ray When JS had to do guard TD and Garnett last year did you call him a stud? Go check he outplayed KG last year in both games. I think we both have valid points. As I watch this game tonight it shows how inept Woody is. David West has 4 fouls with 8min in the 4th. This idiot never runs a play to get the 5th on him. JJ has Pargo guarding him he never posts him up. Chill destroys Bobby Jackson in the post in the first half. He never run a play for him in the post in the second half. Let’s be honest, there is talent on this team but they will never win with Woody as a coach. Look at the bench and their body language. They don’t believe in this guy. I know I would get tired of running the same thing. He coaches like Groundhog Day.

By new jersey faithful

November 30, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

19 turnovers!!! JJ 5-20 shooting!!!!! 19 turnovers!?!?!?! they will never win with that kind of crap going on………

By curious

November 30, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

That foul JS just got shows why you can’t trade him. He has more balls than anyone on this team. He didn’t just let the guy get a dunk.He should of hacked him. Bush league move by Butler he should of pulled the ball out.

By Matt

November 30, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

The biggest problem for the Hawks right now is lack of rebounding. It’s not even a height thing - the players simply aren’t crashing the boards like they should, with the sole exception of Horford. It’s amazing to me how when a shot goes up, there are rarely more than two players going for the rebound. You CANNOT have a running offensive if you are giving up 15-20 offensive rebounds in a game.

As I said before, I’ve lost faith in Woody, but simply changing coaches is not going to be enough to solve that problem. Crashing the boards on both ends is something that is drilled into the minds of basketball players from high school at least. Hell, I still can hear my high school coach yanking me from the game and screaming at me when my man grabbed offensive boards on 2 straight possessions.

Childress, Marvin, and even Smoove for some reason have it in their heads that they don’t have to box out or run towards the basket when the shot goes up on Every. Single. Play. Smoove gets boards when he’s already near the basket due to his sheer athleticism, but if he’s more than 10 feet away, you rarely see him make an effort on the boards.

The only thought that I have is that maybe Mario West should play more minutes. I don’t care if he’s a liability on offense - your offense doesn’t matter if you can’t grab rebounds on the other end.

By Ken Strickland

November 30, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

For the 2nd time in 3gms we’ve played teams with small guards and suffered the same results. Woodson has yet to make the adjustments. I also blame the players. JJ and AJ have enough experience to know how to take advantage of smaller guards without being told. JChildress was the Hawks guard that took advantage of their guards. JJ needs to look in a mirror before criticizing others.

MWilliams could’ve had a bigger impact if he had an OFF that didn’t force him to go one on one so much. Woodson’s mentality seems to be stuck on pick and roll. Except for ALaw, our PG’s aren’t quick enough or talented enough to effectively run pick and rolls. WOODSON HAS OBVIOUSLY LOST THE RESPECT OF HIS PLAYERS. NONE OF THEM ARE PLAYING TEAM BALL AND ALL OF THEM ARE FRUSTRATED. THE ONE PLAYER THAT’S PRODUCED AND PLAYED WITH ENERGY, WHEN GIVEN A CHANCE, CAN’T GET IN THE GM(SSTAUDAMIRE). IT’S TIME FOR A COACHING CHANGE. CAN YOU SAY LARRY DREW?

By kwooden1

November 30, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

I listened to most of the game and was about to ask somebody’s assessment on what they saw but I’ve already read it. The team had a lot of assists, but looks like no rebounded accept Al. David West is a very good player, but he looked like an All-Star tonight. It sounds like we can’t teach our guys how to box out. I heard a stat that the Hawks are the worst defensive rebounding team in the league!! (I hope that is not true, but I can believe it!!!) I think the passing is really good and it shows that the guys are developing chemistry, but again from what I’m seeing on the blog is the coaching staff can’t make good decisions during the game. Looks like some really good positives this game and a lot of stuff to work on. (Turnovers really hurt!) I will say this though the rebounding issue can be taken care of, but the lack of consistant offense takes alot of work and I don’t see the coaching staff producing enough with the time and work they have put in. Hopefully Law will be back Monday

GO HAWKS!

By Astro Joe

November 30, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Matt seems like Hawks always have problems rebounding missed 3s. Long rebounds seems to allude us every time. I can’t even say that we were out muscled as much as out-hustled and that should never happen, especially at home.

It really is rough to watch Lue run the offense. Did you see that possession when he passed the ball to Horford as the shot clock was expiring and Horford was 20 feet from the basket? How does a vet PG make that ridiculously poor decision?

DAMN that was an ugly game.

By doc

November 30, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

having mentioned the value of offensive rebounds earlier today and how the hawks dont get that part of the game; against a front line without chandler for the last three quarters… atlanta hawks with 6 off rebounds, david west 6 offensive rebounds, hornets 16 offensive rebounds. where was this game lost? turnovers, rebounds and individual offensive play.

By Clyde

November 30, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

Ken Strickland can I get a FIRE BILLY AND WOODY?

Woody can’t coach. That stretch when he had Lue in for an extended period hurt us. Lue plays too slow and he can’t create shots for his teammates. He never looks to push the ball up the court and his defense is awful.

Just like I said before when can you say enough is enough. I have been calling for Billy and Woody’s head for years but finally people are seeing the light.

Oh yea where is clyde=moron. I haven’t heard from my number one fan in a while.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Glutton for Punishment

November 30, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOUR TEAM SHOOT 50% FROM THE FIELD AND THE OTHER TEAM SHOOT 38% AND YOU STILL LOOSE. THAT IS BECAUSE THEY SHOT THE BALL 21 TIMES MORE THAN YOU DID !!! I AM JUST SICK.. THIS IS CRAZY. THEY HAD 13 OFF. REBOUNDS TO OUR 4 AND WE HAD 17 TURNOVERS TO THEIR 7. I THINK I NEED A DRINK………………

By roan st

November 30, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

I think jj must have got a shooting lesson from josh smith prior to the game. JJ just isn’t on top of his game like he was last season at this point. I wonder if the problem is mental or physical, or both.

By doc

November 30, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this

roan i was thinking the same thing as he started off 1 for 7 and looked slow. he just doesnt seem to have the same motor that he did the past two seasons and it is affecting his shot.

By John

November 30, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

I bumped into this blog looking thru the sports score from tonite and just couldn’t help noticing the posts about the Hawks. They sound like the complaints from last year, and the year before, and the year before. Listen to one of Woodson’s interviews and tell me how he could motivate anybody. We get what we deserve around here for not holding anybody accountable. Why not just get Pete Babcock back and rebuild for another 10 years?

By RaJah

November 30, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

After the game when the hawks were walking to the locker room I saw a man run down the bleachers and yell something at Woody. Did anyone else see this and know what was said?

By Ramon

November 30, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this

I want Mark Jackson!!! Smooth is making adjustments to his game. He had some turnovers tonight, but so did JJ. And honestly, with only Lue and AJ at the point, can you blame them for trying to push it sometimes?

Some people may not like this, but I think either Mario or Childress needs to start. I get the feeling Childress would do better starting at the 3 with Marvin coming off the bench. This way, when the second unit comes in, Zaza and Marvin can play the two man game when forced into half court sets.

Also this gives JJ a chance to rest because Childress can guard the opposing team’s best perimeter player. With the number of minutes JJ is playing, this adjustment would help save his legs for the season. Also it would force Marvin to HAVE to be more aggressive.

By Ramon

November 30, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

RaJah, that was me running towards him. I was letting him know he was double parked outside and his lights were on, that’s all. LOL

By Clyde=moron

December 1, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

I’m still here, Clyde.

And you are, as always, still a piece of $h!t without one ounce of loyalty to this team. All you ever do is pop your head out every time the Hawks lose and spew your BS, and then disappear when the Hawks have a good game. You’re just here to sell your dumba$$ed t-shirts and trash the team.

Oh yeah, and your loverboy smartguy is a moron too.

Keep calling me out, and I’ll be back, moron.

By THE Hawks Fan

December 1, 2007 1:23 AM | Link to this

Joe Johnson needs rest. He will not finish the season at this pace. 40 mins plus each night!!! I know we need to win, but where will we be if goes down for a month. He cant do it, he will be burnt out by Christams. Somehow Someway, you have got to get him some rest. His play has to be scripted. 32 to 36 mins max. He was wearing a sleave tonight on his right calf. Muscle is probably shot. We need to play games in 6 minute segments and no detours. Maybe Mario does need to start. Marvin scores, but thats about it. His rebounds bounce to him. Marvin and Josh coming in the game at the 6 mins mark for Joe and Mario could work followed shortly by Zsa Zsa and Sheldon for Josh and AL Let Acie get the lionshare of mins at the lead guard with AJ getting him with 2 mins left in 1st quarter. Let Joe rest until 8 mins left in 2nd Quarter no matter what. Insert Salim and Lue in “scoring situations”. I just remember watching the Bulls great years and the “scripted” play no matter if they were winning or losing the game. In the end the best playing 5 of the game were on the floor and they won alot. It would be nice to get a big time Vet pickup via trade but not likely to happen. As far as coaching, what coach can come in and do better than Coach Woodson given the players we have. I dont think we would be 10 and 5 or 14 and 1 with Phil Jackson or Greg Popovich. We are going to win 1 or 2 and then lose 1 or 2. That could work with the right rotation of players. Just stay close to .500 Then at the end of the year play Joe 45 mins plus a game if you have to win. Stay UP HAWKS!!! We just got started!!!

By mykhalc

December 1, 2007 3:00 AM | Link to this

DOC, we’d be crazy to try to predict these cats, right!!!??? it’s ridiculous!!

i’m definitely learnin’ quickly to disconnect early in the game with these cats tho. it’s a good skill to have. LOL

TURNOVERS!!! lack of offense!!! the team reflects the coach…PERIOD!!! and everythin’ about him and the team says…UNSURE!!!! there are other words too but UNSURE is the best way to describe everythin’ about them now!!

i truly believe that there are only 3 cats on the roster that are sure about their games and who they are as players…JJ, HORFORD, and ACIE!! everybody else just seems to play as if NOT KNOWIN’ what to do or if it’s the right thing to do.

the cats seem to be sooooo single focused too. for example, whenever a play seems to be run for ANYBODY it’s like they say, ‘it’s my turn now’, without ever lookin’ to see what’s happenin’ elsewhere on the court. ZAZA bein’ the worst!!! nobody F’N cuts!! no motion!!! all this points back to WOODSON, OF COURSE!!!!

but i will say this. i luv watchin’ HORFORD play!!! man he brings it…PERIOD!!!

to me, this season could come down to 2 rooks showin’ vets how to play REAL BALL!!!

By ray

December 1, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this

Curious, Smith IS a stud on defense, period. The way I see it, he is doing more than he should have to. I blame some players, the coach, and management for that. And you’re right: Woody is not helping at all.

I’m disgusted by last night’s game. Truly disgusted. That was a winnable game.

Woodson: I don’t even need to say it. Everyone here knows what the problem is.

Free Throws:We have to stop missing them. That includes YOU Al Horford. Make those dang free throws, they help you close the gap when you’re behind (momentum is important) and get/keep/extend the lead when you’re tied!

Turnover: again, this is obvious. What we all saw out there on offense was absolute chaos.

Ball Movement & Moving Without the Ball: Honestly, what is the problem? We have less than a handful of guys who will move well without the ball and will pass the ball quicker than the defense can react. This is how JJ ends up with the ball all the time, working against multiple defenders. I don’t have a problem with him initiating the offense. I do have a problem with guys giving him the ball and then not trying to make themselves available as offensive options. Either you’re setting a screen to get him open, setting up for a clear pass and open shot, or trying to lose your defender…or for cryin’ out loud SOMETHING!

The pick and roll: I’m tired of seeing this play butchered so badly. Why even run the play when the person setting the screen NEVER gets the ball (or only does so when he’s covered by no less than two defenders), and the person handling the ball only using the screen to run straight into the first defenders they can find? How can you look so retarded running the damn pick&roll?

For once, I saw Horford getting the ball down low in the second half. Of course, he usually ended up getting double or triple teamed, but he was getting it. But he was also getting fouled. I love this guy, but two things he MUST improve on here: make the free throws. And, learn to pass effectively out of double teams. Somebody should be open. Unfortunately, that goes right back to moving without the ball. No sense in Horford or anybody else passing it back out when other players are simply standing around…right next to a defender who’s waiting on a lazy or forced pass. If only we could play like a team.

A note on Josh Smith: so much energy, and I really wish it would rub off on some other guys. Josh didn’t do so well on the boards against David West, but again, he’s put in a position where he’s one of basically two or three guys who are being unfairly counted on to to that work. There’s no excuse for the others, ESPECIALLY Pachulia. Josh’s only energetic help was Horford, who was an absolute thug on the boards. Everybody else was energetic in little short bursts. Really missing Acie Law right now. He’s a leader, and has energy.

A note on Acie: reading that article Sekou typed up on him, I’m happy with what I saw. Not only does he want back in badly, but he’s keeping up his cardio despite the fact that his injury was to his ankle. Now that’s something you would’ve expected from a veteran pg, eh? You hear THAT, “Speedy?”

By ray

December 1, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

Doc, very interesting thing you said about this being (or could be) Josh’s team. So a little rhetorical inquiry for you:

1.Didn’t we sign JJ for that? 2. Since it seems that we did, what do we do with JJ now? 3. How will/would JJ react to this, particularly mentally? I mean…he’s pretty much running the offense (especially with Law out). 4. Perhaps you don’t mean it the way it sounds. Josh is definitely the spark plug here. But is he/can he be the engine, the guy to be counted on when the game’s on the line? 5. Question #4 leads right back to question#2. What is your thinking on this, because surely you had to have thought it further out than what you wrote.

By roan st

December 1, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Mykhalc, I totally agree with your assesment of this team. In fact if I were the GM only acie, al, and jj would be untouchable in trade talks. I would listen to any offers for the rest of this underachieving bunch. Time to make a coaching move and if that doesn’t improve things then it’s time to deal.

By smartguy

December 1, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this

RaJah, I saw the same thing, and was perplexed. The commotion even had the attention of the Hornets players at the other end of the court. If I was that guy, I would have been yelling at Woody to get the heck out of town. If anyone was behind the Hawks bench at the end of the game, we would love to know the gist of what was said.

Clyde, your boy was also on the Titanic, still proclaiming an unsinkable ship. I wonder if he’ll lose his job when Woody loses his?

By I.MUS WRITE

December 1, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

20 TURNOVERS…………..

By I.MUS WRITE

December 1, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

Coaching- can we get some please? Why was JJ on the perimeter dancing against CP. Come on man it’s the ABC of basketball. When you have a huge height difference on the man guarding you…..GO IN THE PAINT AND POST UP. There is no way CP can stop JJ on the blocks. The turnovers …. my god, looked like sumone put crisco on the rock. JS was’nt terrible last night but he really turned the ball over at critical times when we were making a run.

By Chris

December 1, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Is Sheldon Williams a first-round bust?

By I.MUS WRITE

December 1, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

The kid from Utah looked really good last night,I think his name is Fesencko. This would be a nice pick up he is 7ft and rebounds like a beast- really nasty around the rim. I wouls ship ZAZA for him. Speaking of ZAZA -how many uncontested layups did NO get while he was in the game -i counted 6,This guy is a 3rd string big on good teams. Id take Oberto and Elson over him - Turiaf/kwame- Illgauskas/Gooden- Prizz/Aldridge the list goes on and on——Why the hell is he getting so many minutes-he shows me nothing.

By I.MUS WRITE

December 1, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

On offense our spacing was terrible, one player catches the ball and there are 2 guys 6 feet away -spacing. A simple motion offense would do wonders for this team-no movement at all -a lot of standing around waiting for the ball-Props to J Chillz he is a snake on the baseline scoring in tight quarters.Al is going to be our best forward in a minute- does he have magnets on his fingertips he gets his paws on alot of loose balls, Acie get well bro. we need u bad!!! I watch these games closely and i swear I have’nt seen one play run the last few games. Do we have selfish players or is it a lack of offensive game plan that forces our players to go one on one.

SPACING ON OFFENSE /ROTATION ON DEFENSE…… Can sumone help Woody understand this

By Ramon

December 1, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

I MUS WRITE, I know what you’re saying. I seen him last night also. He’s TOUGH, caught an elbow to the face and came back wanting to play MORE. I would love to see if they could acquire him. Even if its for Sheldon, Lue (they could use a back PG), or ZaZa.

And I still wish they would consider trading for Telfair. I think the speed he could bring to the game when relieving Law would be great. With Law size (and speed) and Telfair’s speed, they could have the back court set for years to come. Not to mention, business wise, Telfair probably has more fans than the Atlanta Hawks do.

By reese

December 1, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Tap Daddy, I’m not really concerned whether Josh Smith is the 1st, 2nd or 3rd or fourth scoring option on the team. I’m more concerned with individuals being willing to be both offensive and defensive threats and in turn more confident in handling any situation that confronts them.

I was at the game last night and did not like that fact that we were not shooting enough. There were two plays that stand out.

Josh Smith was driving through the lane and jumped in the air. Instead of continuing to the basket for a layup, he passed the ball out to another player. Similarly, Zaza was driving and through the ball to Woodson.

I went home and checked the box score. We only had 68 shots against the hornets. Yeah, we shot 45 pct for the game and Josh Smith shot 60% (6 of 10). But, who cares when you lose, the other team shoots 40 pct and the other team takes 86 shots.

I’m more concerned with the following.

On Offensive, know the fundamentals of how to pass, dribble or shoot. Don’t be limited by old stereotypes of a point guard must be the one who is dribbling most of the time. There will be plenty of times where anyone on the team should be able to lead/finish on a fast break, set a screen, make an assist or grab an offensive rebound.

Additionally, high school teaches players how to correctly run the pick and roll, how to run plays against man on man defense and how to run plays against zone defenses. Yet,the hawks have not consistently executed a pick and roll in the past 4 years. The person setting the screen is not suppose to move nor turn their back to the player with the ball. If you watch the hawks, the screeners are moving and the screener turns his back to the ball. Also, Horford started the season getting offensive rebounds and taking it back up. Now, he is passing the ball out more. Put it back up.

On defensive, everyone is trying their best to cover their man. However, we and they all know that you cannot stop your man on every play. Therefore, your coaches have designated who should rotate over to help and your teammates should make the corresponding rotations. However, there are times when anyone on defensive must be willing to rotate to help because of their proximity to the play being executed by the offense.

Additionally, every player should have learned half court traps, full court pressure and zone defenses while playing in high school. Also, here are certain trap situations that arise by the position of the offensive player with the ball. Examples, if a player is dribbling in the corner or near the half court line and out of bounds. Those situational traps can lead to steals, dribbling out of bounds, wasting the shot clock, an unwanted time out or bad passes. But those are defensive plays that require not only the trappers to recognize the situation, but the other players realizing that they have to be ready to cover more than 1 man at a time.

In other words, every player on this team was introduced to the fundamentals in high school. Some had time to improve in college and some had time to improve in the NBA. Whether or not they use it a game is part coaches, part player and part teammates (leader).

Until this team learns to consistently apply the fundamentals on a consistent basis against any team, we will continue to see self doubt and inconsistentcy.

By Ken Strickland

December 1, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

I’ve calmed down from last nights comedy of errors, but I’m still deeply dissapointed. I have no professional or college coaching experience. However, I’ll guarantee you one thing. I wouldn’t allow any team with small guards to beat me. I’d use a combination of JJ, AJ, Childress and even MWilliams to post and pound them inside. I’d try to neutralize their quickness on the DEF end by playing a zone. Always force small quick guards to beat you on the DEF end of the court.

Woodson seems to think pushing the ball should end up in a layup. Otherwise, he seems to advocate pulling up and running his beloved pick and roll OFF. I remember one play when Horford got the RB and pushed the ball up court. When he reached the top of the key he passed to an open TLue on the left wing. TLue then took and made an open, uncontested jumpshot. That’s what an uptempo OFF is supposed to do. It creates open uncontested layups and jumpshots before the DEF sets up. After Horford passed to TLue, he should have crashed the basket. With our PG situation, the pass and roll is a much better option than Woody’s pick and roll. A return lob pass would produce a very high percentage scoring opportunity. JSmith should pullup at the key instead of trying to take it all of the way to the basket. It would eliminate the charging calls, turnovers and create more high percentage scoring opportunities.

One last thing. I have a basic question that is taught in basketball 101. What does a coach do when he has a quick, fast OFF machine on his bench and his team is having trouble scoring, especially from the outside? Against Chicago Salim was inserted too late. Against New Orleans he wasn’t inserted at all. Some of the things Woodson does, or doesn’t do, just doesn’t make any sense.

By Clyde

December 1, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By I.MUS WRITE

December 1, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

ZAZA/AJ for FESENCKO all day. I would really like to get Calderon in a Hawks uniform, but if Telfair is available then he will work. Telfair would be an upgrade over what we have. LAW/Telfair would be good 1.Lowry 2.J Jack 3.S Blake 4. E. Boykins

Any of the above would be better than what we have.

By Lil E

December 1, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

The Atlanta Spirit has a responsibility to the few loyal fans that it has to fire Mike Woodson before this team begins an inevitable slide in the W-L column. Whatever reason it is he is still here needs to be forgotten, like now. I’m tired of curteously asking for something that should be glaringly obvious for those guys. As a consumer and Hawks fan, I demand Mike Woodson be fired. If you are true Hawks fan, you would too. Sounds like we need a petition..

By Lil E

December 1, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

In a completely unrelated note, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Zaza, Salim, and Shelden for Kobe Bryant ? Man, I wish we could make that happen.

By Lil E

December 1, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

or Marvin Williams, T. Lue, and Shelden Williams for LaMarcus Aldridge (an even better fit than Kobe, heh).

By terrell barron

December 1, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Fire Woody, hire Mark Jackson.

By Ramon

December 1, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Lil E, if we could make that second one happened, I’d be so happy. With a frontline of Aldridge, Horford, and Smooth, the team would have athletic bigs who can get up and down the floor (as well as play half court).

When I watch Horford, I really believe he can end up developing a mid range game similar to Karl Malone. If he’s able to do this, then Smooth will be able to take his man on the post, with Horford at the high post, and JJ on the wing (with Marvin and Law waiting on the weakside for uncontested jumpers when they swing it).

One thing must be noted, Smooth is NOT selfish. I think thats the most important thing to remember. Smooth just wants to win, and sees no one on the court now (besides JJ and Horford; Law is injured) who wants to MAKE the game theirs. In the last 3-4 seasons, Smooth has improved and made positive adjustments to his game more than anyone. Players like that are the type you have to keep.

If you remember when Grant Hill came in the league, his first 3-4 years he couldn’t shoot even as good as Smooth shoots NOW! But he had to keep working on his shot and eventually improved.

Smooth, Horford and JJ are the three you need to build around with Law being the one who gets to drive the ride. The three of them have great work ethic, and that is not something you trade. If you can’t find a deal to find what you need without giving up those pieces, than you be patient and wait til something happen. Don’t give up your best assets just to make something happen. Isaiah did that and look what happened (although Layden really didn’t leave him with any assets).

Also, if anyone ever takes a second and watch Mark Jackson speak about different games when he’s on, you’ll see why so many are jumping on the bandwagon (even though I think I started it, I’m glad to see so many join lol).

By mykhalc

December 1, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

one play that bothered the hell outta me last nite was CP3 takin’ MARVIN’s arm while bein’ posted by MW and throwin’ it outta the way!!??!! now i only caught the replay but pls tell me MW got in his face when that went down???!! again i ONLY saw the replay. so could someone tell me exactly what happened???

now IF that was the extent of things then that brings me to my other issue with the HAWKS…NO F’N TOUGHNESS!!!! yeah i know we’re undersized and all that but where is that attitude that says certain things just won’t be tolerated, especially on the home floor. DAVID WEST showed it last nite. he was DETERMINED to his way on the glass. CP3 showed it against MW on that post up i mentioned.

this bunch needs to find some toughness…PERIOD!!! this is definitely not the same attitude they had when they played DET tough on their home court.

for the gazillionth time, it is time for WOODSON to be replaced!! we all appreciate the fact that he kept the minors in check, but we need a truly competent NBA HC right now!! it has to happen for this roster to have a chance this year…PERIOD!!!

By doc

December 1, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

ray, first of all things change and folks have to be flexible. jj might have to grow a bit as well and allow the inevitable.

two, smith was what a up and coming second year not out of his teens so how could it have been possible to predict how smith has grown.

three, some of the issues are about whose team it is right now. it doesnt seem smith defers anything thus far whether it is the long shot or who runs up the court with it. it also seems by reactions he doesnt take lightly to a rookie telling him too much. not saying this is bad necessarily but just what it is.

my final comment was more of how it can be his team by fitting into the best player the team needs and then leading it by doing just that. respect is earned and with that he gets the keys to the big a because he has charisma along with talent and with that end it is his team. this is ll the best case scenario for smith and what he can become.

By terrell barron

December 1, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

He sure looks like a bust to me Chris. That makes 2 first round role players. The 6th pick(Chill)and the 5th pick overall(Shelly), should be starters by now, at least I thought so. Shelly looks like a 2nd rdr at best, maybe even a D-Leaguer. More than likely, its just bad coaching.

By ray

December 1, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

REESE, that was SO well said. Nice.

Chris, nope. Sheldon is a lottery bust. Never should’ve been drafted that high or for those reasons, much less had that much expectation put on him. And curse of curses…he plays for Woody. Ask Boris Diaw how nice of a job that is. Or Salim Stoudamire.

I Mus Write, Pachulia gets the minutes for a few reasons: he has a clue every now and then on offense, Sheldon is NOT a center, Solomon is still in Woody’s doghouse, and Lorenzen Wright sucks monkey nuts. I mean really, what happened to Wright? Last year he averaged more fouls than rebounds. This year he has yet to play a minute that I’m aware of. Is he injured? If he is, what’s the timetable on his return? Will it be worth the bother of getting him back or will he stink it up AGAIN? I know this: his contract is up after this season, right? Ahem..I wouldn’t pay $5 to keep him after what I’ve seen.

Doc, good answer. Was wondering where you were going with that one. I was looking at it from a team improvement perspective. After all, is any player on this team truly untouchable? Not if it makes the team better…Of course, sentimentality (and we all have it to some degree) leaves very little place for reality and flexibility. I think that this is VERY obvious on this blog.

By mykhalc

December 1, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

i’d like to share a sayin’ that i believe holds true in life period but i definitely think it applies to our beloved HAWKS franchise.

UNTIL THE LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION EXCEEDS THE LEVEL OF COMFORT, CHANGE WILL NOT OCCUR!!!!!

so BROKE A$$ SPIRIT, where you at on this???? comfortable still??? or frustrated to the point of change?? or lack of funds negate you to have any feelings either way on this one??? geeessshhhhhh

By Ryder

December 1, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

I think Monday’s game at Philly will be the one that determines where this team truly stands. On the road, against a team they should beat, with (hopefully) Acie coming back to man the point. Woodson must learn to make the proper adjustments or else they will fall to 6-10. Not good for someone who needs to keep their job.

As for Smith, I think it’s fairly obvious that he is of great value to this franchise. I still believe that the pieces are in place to win now, but some roles have yet to be realized.

First and foremost the offense should flow through 3 people: JJ, Marvin and Horford. Chill is a great energy guy off the bench who provides versatility for a 6th man. Acie should be the facilitator and lock down the other ball handler, as he did with Billups.

As for JSmith, he is the energy and hustle guy that this team desperately needs. They don’t need to go out and get someone else to fill that role.

The problem with him is that he doesn’t realize this, and he feels that he needs to assert himself as the number two offensive banana. This is where Atlanta gets into trouble offensively. I understand that he wants to do as much as possible to help this team score, but it’s obvious that he will best serve this team by being a fourth option and focusing primarily on being a force on the defensive end.

He still holds on to the ball way too long and as a result the offense stalls. He is a beast in transition as well as when he is on the other end. Along with Horford they can really create havoc for other teams.

There is nothing Woody or no one else can do for this man other than hope he understands that they don’t need him to drain jumpers as much as they need him to work on the glass and continue to block shots.

I hope he gets it before it’s too late and a coach loses his job.

By Ramon

December 1, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

Ryder, I must say I disagree. At the moment, Smooth HAS to be the number 2 option. The offense should put him in better positions to score. But for the make up of the team he has to be the number two. The reason I say that is because NO ONE else is trying to feel that spot. Marvin seems happy settling for what he gets. Marvin doesn’t truly seem to have the mentality you would want out of your second option.

I do believe the half court offense should run out of Horford and Smooth on the block and the other at high post. As I said previously, Smooth is making adjustments to his game. Anyone who can’t see that would have to be crazy (not saying its you, just speaking in general). I believe by running the offense through the block like that, Marvin could end up averaging 17-18 a game just from jumpshots.

Then again, I honestly think they should try not starting Marvin, and letting him be the sixth man. The Hawks always seem to go in a ‘funk’ at the same part of the game, so when you bring him in off the bench it helps change that and forces him to be more aggressive. I am not saying Marvin isn’t good enough to start, I’m merely saying strategy wise it would be best. Similar to the Spurs and Bowen starting with Finley or Ginobli coming off the bench.

This team needs a lineup that will set a intense tone from the beginning to carry throughout the game. And sorry but I can’t see Marvin running after a loose ball. Until Law got 100%, even if you started with Mario, JJ, Chills, Smooth, and Horford, that line up would be good defensively to set the tone. On offense Chills could be the point and on defense allow Mario to guard the opposing PG.

Then you would have Marvin, Salim (hopefully), and Zaza coming to give the scoring punch, after the tone has been set. The Hawks lose most of their games in the first 2 quarters. I just think this may answer that problem.

By doc

December 1, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

a bare bones budget and youth carry the tone right now. funny i think i warned folks that even the blazers for the same reason would continue to struggle this year. well they are one game worse than the hawks with a whole lot of talent.

as far as he board differential think how worse it might have been if chandler hadn’t chipped two crowns early in the game. check his stats for a short tenure on the floor last night.

reese, i agree with so much of your post. went back and read it after ray gave you the cudos; find that happening more and more as ray the moderator gives his comments on this blog requiring i go back and reread. that shot differential also suggests how important the offensive rebound is and how much the block is over rated everywhere except in fantasy ball. it is about stops and change of possessions not blocks. if they get it back it means nothing except for espn. the things that have to be emphasized is boards especially offensive and steals as that is a better measure of change of possession which leads to … MORE SHOT ATTEMPTS.

By Ryder

December 1, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this

Ramon, I see you working on moving Marvin to the bench. Good suggestion. It will give him total autonomy to score at will. Unfortunately Woodson is so bent on trying to justify Atlanta drafting him number two instead of CP3 that he feels that he HAS to start him, even at the detriment of the defense.

I just think that if Woodson wants to truly start off in the half court then he needs to start a lineup that can operate that offense at best. Smith, Childress, Horford, Law, and JJ would be a great way to have the people in place who can stop all of these big runs that puts this team behind early. Smith has to continue playing down low and stop jacking up shots that halts momentum.

Also, Marvin would be a beast as the sixth man, along with Lue, Mario and Shelden. However, that won’t happen and as a result this team will continue to be playing 4 on 5 when it comes to defense.

A real coach wouldn’t be afraid to make a bold move like that. Unfortunately Woodson is too concerned about keeping his job that he doesn’t put in the lineup that can get the job done.

By reese

December 1, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Ray, thanks for the compliment and to expand on your comment to Chris. Every acquisition made by BK that year was a bust. Speedy, Lorenzen and Shelden are currently non factors and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. Solomon Jones must not be doing anything in practice to warrant playing time. I’m not there so I can’t comment.

Doc, I think that any way that you can stop the opposing team from getting shots and improving the opportunity for change of possession is important. Steals, Offensive fouls, traveling, double dribbles, carries, jump balls, offensive timeouts, defensive rebounds and block shots are all equally important in my opinion. It was funny watching the hornet players look over their shoulder and change the angle/arc of their shots to avoid Josh Smith.

The threat of a steal or block shot will make offensive players rush their play and in turn increase the possibility of getting a Steal, Offensive foul, traveling, double dribble, carry, jump ball, offensive timeout or defensive rebounds.

I have mixed feelings about a play where Tyronne Lue just grabbed the offensive player while Josh Smith was standing behind him waiting for the opportunity to block or alter the shot. I feel that Tyronne should have tried to steal the ball down low and let Josh worry about up high. The only reason I have mixed feelings about it is because I don’t know if Josh communicated to TLue to let him know he was behind him and I don’t know how many fouls Josh had at the time.

This pattern of just grabbing players happens too much in my opinion. This is where the players need to talk on defense and let the player getting beat that he has help. Alternatively, if these situation were praticed and the assumption that help will be there would be already be established.

One would think that by now, JJ, Tlue, JC, JS and MW would have key signals to communicate with other on the offensive and defensive end that would allow for them to set each other up for success on a more consistent basis. But maybe they do and they just can’t get it done because their styles don’t compliment each other.

By reese

December 1, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I just read I just read the article about the hawks player meeting and only have 1 comment.

Marvin, the reason that you can get things accomplished in practice and not in the game is that the players in the game are better than the players you are practicing against.

If your beating Zaza to rebounds, jumping higher than zaza, blocking zaza’s shot or shooting jumpers over zaza its because he can’t jump and is slow.

A prime example of not practicing against leapers was a play in the 2nd half. Al Horford had Doug West boxed out. A rebound bounced high in the air. Horford jumped for the rebound and grabbed air.

You know why?. Doug West just jumped higher than Al and tipped the ball backwards for an offensive rebound by one of his teammates who through practice know that Doug is a good leaper.

Whereas, the hawks players stood and watched because they expected Al to get the rebound, because in practice, he boxed out Zaza, jumped and grabbed the ball.

By randy

December 1, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

I wish we could have gotten BOGUT, PAUL, OR DERON instead of lazy Marvin. He adds nothing, no energy, no rebounding, no toughness, no quickness. Only thing he can do is make a couple jumpshots a game. What a waste of a second pick. Shellhead is even worse, he is complete trash. If we had a GM worth a damn we would have a more complete team, not a bunch of Forwards that can’t shoot. The only good draft we have had was last year, I somehow think BK gave way to popular opinion to save his job on that one. Right now, we are a 30 win team, unless Law can come back and make a real impact, its gonna be another tough year. I am starting to agree with people that say trade JSmith for a center like Bogut, besides a somehow doubt the Atl Spirit’s willingness to match bids for Smith next summer.

By Melvin

December 1, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

Jsmith for Bogut…Uh, have you seen the Bucks play lately? They are on a losing streak longer than ours. They can’t beat anyone away from home… Hawks had a player only meeting. You know things are looking badd when you have a players only meeting.

By Astro Joe

December 2, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this

Reese & Melvin, where is the article about a players only meeting? Please add the link, as I can’t find it.

By mykhalc

December 2, 2007 12:44 AM | Link to this

JOE, took me minute too…players only article

By smartguy

December 2, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

“guys are going extremely hard in practice, and then we seem to get into the game and let up a little bit.”

Uh, maybe you shouldn’t go so hard in practice. There are 82 games, and if Woody is running these guys ragged in practice, then maybe they don’t have as much left for the games. Woody simply has no balance. Fire him, Please.

To hear that practices are more intense than games is simply infuriating.

By smartguy

December 2, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this

We’re talkin about practice, man. PRACTICE. Not games, practice.

By doc

December 2, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this

smartguy, the coach is always more interested in practice as he has stated it on many occasions. yeah, it has always kind of stuck in my craw a bit too. remember who plays is based on practice not how they perform in games.

speed of games is of course a factor but they are deluding themselves if they think practicing hard equals what happens in games when the neurotransmitters of importance kicks in and folks find their zone. if they are achieving that in practice then they are wasting it and it is no surprise there is nothing left when they come to play the real games. not everyone’s motor can or will run at that level nor should it over a long period. so it is either they are leaving it “at the range” as we say in golf or their talent level and innate speed is not good enough to keep up with the real men. if so we have a talent problem which is bk’s and the broken atlanta spirit’s problem to fix, coaching cant help that.

when it comes to our point guards i say it is due to lack of ability, they dont have the motor’s to keep up with the top talent in the nba.

cant be in the nba on an nhl budget or budget mindset when the cap is a misnomer and anyone can exceed it to their benefit or like in the knicks to their own self destruction.

as far as how vets can transform teams instead of 1st round draft picks look only to the celts and the magic. doc and van gundy also look a heck of a lot smarted that they did last year or in van gundy’s defense when shaq didnt want to or wasnt able to play.

By ray

December 2, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Reese, I think you hit on it again in regard to the rebounding. Right now, I couldn’t imagine a more clear, lucid explanation. Horford does indeed box out well, but was outleaped by West, who tipped the ball away. That happened a lot, but more so when Horford wasn’t in the game. It didn’t happen one-on-one with Smoove, because he can’t outleap him. But if Smoove boxes out, a guy like West has no chance. But again, when Horford’s not there, Smoove shouldn’t be the only guy out of five who’s crashing the boards. All it takes is for the opposing team to put two bodies on him, which is usually enough to keep anybody short of Shaq from getting the rebound.

A player’s only meeting is fine. I am interested in seeing what (if anything) will come out of it. Guys are going to have to dig deep. I have to agree with anyone that’s saying Josh is more or less a number 2 scoring option right now. Why? Because Marvin, despite his good shooting percentage and ability, isn’t showing enough aggression to be the #2. By the same vein, it seems that he’s also not getting the ball consistently enough. Looks like a combination to me: He gets the ball and scores in the first half. In the second half, he either doesn’t get the ball as much and apparently isn’t concerned…or he gets it and isn’t as aggressive. We won’t even talk about his defense…

I know I keep saying this, but I really miss Acie Law right now. And regardless of what our young vets may or may not think about his vocal capability..they need him. Not to say that he’ll save our season, because he won’t. But he’s needed. Really.

At some point, the team just isn’t getting it done. The coach isn’t getting it done. It’s management’s job to see where changes are most likely going to be effective and make those changes in those areas. Of course, in a bass-ackwards organization like this, the usual logic is lost and falling upon deaf ears.

By doc

December 2, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

ray, that is only further testimont to what i said earlier in a blog, rather have marvin at 2 for 14 than smith, means he is playing his role and smith isnt as the shooter with the pretty stroke. smith and horford HAVE to come up with significant boards EVERY night on both ends not just horford in doubles consistently. that means they are around the boards where they belong. chills, jj, acie, zaza and marvin in support on the boards.

By Tap Daddy

December 2, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

I understand players meetings are suppose to be private but I would of liked to hear a little bit more in terms of what other areas of concern do the players see. And what in the world happened to that uptempo style of play we heard so much about them playing in the offseason and preseason? Looks like the same stagnant offense we’ve seen since Woodson’s been in charge….

By ToeKnee

December 2, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Man, Sekou, I see the Hawk’s lack of energy and heart is rubbing off on you. Seriously, CAN WE GET AN ACTUAL FAN TO WRITE THIS BLOG!!!!!

By ToeKnee

December 2, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Man, Sekou, I see the Hawk’s lack of energy and heart is rubbing off on you. Seriously, CAN WE GET AN ACTUAL FAN TO WRITE THIS BLOG!!!!! I’m sick of hearing from some guy once every Other week who writes one or two paragraphs about a team he obviously does not give two sh*ts about. get your act together and do your damn job. or give it to me!!

By terrell barron

December 2, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

NBA TV is showing D-League games. Maybe we can find a center. Just throwing that out there for those who cant bare to watch the sorry Falcons. Oh yeah, Fire Woody, hire Mark Jackson.

By ray

December 2, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

Doc, yeah I hear ya. I hope these guys collectively see it for what it is: team offense, team defense. Bigs gotta step up. Swingmen gotta step up. Guards gotta step up. Guys have to help each other.

By smartguy

December 2, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

I was hoping the Spirit would start selling tickets to Hawks’ practices. If you want to see the Hawks at their best, practice is the place to go. Woody sucks.

By The Dark Karma

December 2, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

A player’s only meeting. What of it? So the coaching is that ineffective, then. Practices must be as well. It is easy to go hard when one knows the devil in front of him. Not so easy against the beast from across the pond. No doubt this is the result of Woodson’s penchant for putting such importance on practices. Players learn that practicing hard is all that is required to earn playing time in games. Meanwhile, performance on the court has less significance. How much more ridiculous must this get?

Of course what does one expect from a coach that frequently looks like a dotard on the sidelines.

By Mike

December 2, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

Yea players only meeting, and AJ comes out doing all the talking. JJ is a great player but he doesn’t have the personally to lead a team. That’s a big problem for any team.

The one good thing about team only meetings is they are usually followed by a coaching change. We practice hard, give me a break. In practice you’re playing against that same lame @ss offense of Woody, so of course you play great.

It’s time for a coaching change. JJ, Smoove, Marvin, and Chill do not want a coaching change because they know the rotation will change. Not one of these guys like to post up guys that 4 or 5 inches shorter than they are. Chill is the weakest in the group, he’s soft as powder.

This team needs a new coach and a new system. Hopefully the team meeting will result in the starter reminding Woody that he have guys on the bench that could come make a contribution to the team. That’s why it’s no chemistry, and that’s why this team struggle. Some guys feel like they are part of the team, and some guys don’t.

By Steve T

December 2, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this

Mike, Chill has a very nice game inside the paint. The hawks need to learn to work the ball on the inside and kick it out. We need a player like Chill.

Simth and JJ both need to learn when your shot is not falling, it is not your night. JJ was like 5-20 which is like 25%. If he had hit half of those shots the hawks win.

I know people laughed when I stated that i wanted Mike Miller. Mike is know to hit big shots and in this game, we move JJ to PG, and slide Mike at SG. I bet you that the Hawks would have won this game. The hawks need someone to hit the open shots.

By mykhalc

December 2, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

SEKOU, is ACIE still on track for playin’ in PHILLY???

By I.MUS WRITE

December 3, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

MIKE— U ARE RIGHT, 6 FORWARDS BETWEEN 6’8 AND 6’10 AND NOBODY WANTS TO POST UP.IM DISGUSTED -NUFF SAID

By HawksHeroZero

December 3, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Some players seen to be just not smart enough, or don’t have the will to do certain things..

What happened to the “Baby Pistons Line-Up/Philosphy”?

The most athletic defensive-expert players on the court?

Law-starting when he’s healhty?

Joe?

Childress?

Smith-as a PF who does not shoot.

Solomon?

Childress should start, but he will probably be traded. He is the teams best “man-to-man defender”. Everyone just jumps high, shoots, or turns the ball over.

The Hawks gave-up on Childress too soon (in my opinion). They should not have traded for Joe, or drafted Marvin.

Those were moves to attract attention to The Hawks, now its hurtng without Paul at PG here.

By Mike

December 3, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Steve your right, Chill does have a really nice game, so I just want single him out. My point is I’m tired of seeing 6’7”, 6’8”, and 6’9” guys going to the rack with powder puff just settle for free throws and avoiding real contact. These guys should be able to finish strong at rack and get And1’s. That’s was my only point about Chill. It’s frustrating when you see guys with 4 and 5 inches of height advantage hoisting up jump shots all game. Of course we all know that’s coaching.

It’s no mystery that JJ is struggling with his shot. Teams are playing the Hawks like they always have. They are going to keep JJ from getting off to the quick start and make someone else on the Hawks team beat them. To make matter worst, Woody is still running him in the ground like did last year. So unless the team is making jump shots we struggle and look lethargic on offense because Woody has everything design to go through JJ, which plays right into the opponents hands.

I know a lot of people will disagree, but I say let Salim help out at the point. I know Acie is our point of future and I’m cool with that, but Salim could help guard some of those small penetrating guards, plus you’re putting some more offense in the game. Salim could fill in some of those minutes TLue gets. I know his defense can’t be any worst than TLue’s. They should save TLue for the end of the game.

Last but certainly not lease FIRE WOODY AND PUT US HAWKS FANS OUT OF OUR MISERY. “RIGHT’ DREAM ON MIKE.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!