AJC > Sports > Hawks > Blog > Archives > 2007 > November > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USHow’s about now-ish?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
I’m borrowing from my man Dave Chappelle here today, but his sentiment (from one of his many hilarious Chapelle’s Show skits, think of Silky Johnson and the Time Travelers for those of you who are devoted fans) was the perfect answer to a locker room question Josh Smith asked rhetorically regarding the Hawks’ ability to climb the ladder in an Eastern Conference still in flux.
Why wait? Aside from Boston (11-1) and Orlando (12-3), no other team has distinguished itself from the pack. Even with their recent bout of disarray, the Hawks remain in the thick of the mess in the playoff chase (everyone does when you’re still a couple days away from the end of the first month).
But there’s no sense in saving your energy for later. If nothing else, the Celtics and Magic have made that clear. They’re both playing with a sense of urgency perennial playoff outfits wouldn’t dare approach - that whole save it for the playoff stuff.
But when you haven’t tasted the postseason in nearly a decade, why hold back?
I know back-to-back road wins for the first time since Michigan was a football powerhouse is not cause for a parade. But it’s progress for the Hawks. Major progress.
The Hawks are still trying to develop a winning culture in their own locker room. So every little bit helps. And they’re doing it right now without the services of several guys (mainly Acie Law IV and a sound-minded Zaza Pachulia) who will figure prominently into their future plans this season, winning without any main players is always a positive thing.
For josh Smith to even be thinking about it after 12 games is an excellent sign. You want your best players thinking about how they can scrap their way to the top (or at least to the top eight in the East). You want them wrapped up in this thing now as opposed to any of the alternatives.
Three years ago the Chicago team the Hawks will face Tuesday night bounced back from a 0-9 start to make the playoffs. I don’t know that a similar turnaround will be feasible for any team that’s nine games in the hole right now. Could be. But why play that game if you don’t have to?
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Comments
By wolverinegrad
November 26, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this
The Hawks are in desperate need of a 4 game winning streak. Or better yet 3game winning streak. We must learn how to put teams on the ropes away early. The talent is here, but the question is whether the drive is present to make it happen.
By john
November 26, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this
listening to the minny game the other day had me up the wall in the first half. i stopped listening, and was contemplating looking at this team in another way (not a very good one either). but when i found out that they won i did look at the team in a different way, i said okay, we’re making progress, that game could broke this team but instead they went out and probably broke the other team.
By Greg
November 26, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this
I disagree John. These guys still lack motivation. They don’t seem enthused about playing winning basketball. Joe Johnson keep saying Mike Woodson lays out the plan perfectly each game, defend rebound, and your offense comes, but these guys won’t do it until the 2nd half down by 20. Why do we contiue to start slow and dig these huge holes. What is the problem? It’s not coaching. JJ has stated that. Until these guys start playing together we will not make the playoffs.
By Hawksville Resident
November 26, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this
Hahaha…How about Now ish!!! I’m still laughing my a$$ off about that title! Right now our Hawks are on the verge… on the verge of being the same ol Hawks and Mike Woodson getting the Axe before he get’s to open his Christmas presents or on the verge of being the comeback team in the NBA this year! Coming back from 21 shows a team that wants to be the later, but how did we get down 21 to Minneloser to begin with? That being said I’m a die hard and I’ll support them regardless; I just wish they’d make up their mind and decide which team they want to be: The individuals I watched get rolled over by Washington or the team I saw roll over the Mavs on Opening Night. Go Hawks and Dawgs!
By I.MUS WRITE
November 26, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
This team is definitely better than last year, the problem is no body has stepped up to be a consistent scoring option behind JJ. Marvin looks good in flashes,Josh goes off 1 of every 4 games. When teams double JJ or his shot isnt falling, where do the points come from? What surprises me is how we can fight, srcap and eye gouge to win a game ….. in the third and fourth quarter. By then its to late to mount a come back on a solid team. Bottom line is these guys are pros and should come out with the fire every night
By smartguy
November 26, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this
I agree with Hawksville. Two wins. Well, I’m surprised those geniuses at the Spirit Group didn’t give Woody an extension. I mean, is a win over the worst team in the league really turning the corner? We have seen this before. They had a similar win (big comeback on the road) against Denver last year, and while I really would like for them to keep winning, I just can’t get my hopes up. And yes, I still want Woody gone.
By JohnGTFan
November 26, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
As always I have high hopes for this team. I truly do. But they haven’t shown any signs from being a different team than they were last year. If they start hot, they finish cold. When they start cold, sometimes, they finish hot. The players have to play the game, but Woodson has to get these kids motivated and ready for 48 minutes…not 30 - 35 minutes. If they can win 6 of 8 or 10 of 13 during the season, then I’ll be more of a believer that this team has truly grown. We’re all dying for it to happen…it’s been way too long.
By Chris
November 26, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this
Sekou, I very much enjoyed Terence Moore’s article bemoaning the lack of black players in MLB. I’m wondering if you might write a companion piece about the dearth of white players in the NBA. Perhaps David Stern would like to hold a meeting with Steve Nash, Brad Miller, Kirk Hinrich and Luke Ridnour to discuss what can be done to make the league more racially diverse. Could you please ask Dominique to comment about the lack of white players currently on the Hawks roster?
By JohnGTFan
November 26, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
Just my opinion here…but I don’t think the lack of black players in baseball has anything to do with race. They simply aren’t as interested in baseball like they are football or basketball. And I think the same for white players in the NBA.
By JohnGTFan
November 26, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this
Sorry to comment about the NFL..but has everyone heard that Sean Taylor of the Redskins was shot and is in critical condition? OMG
By Hawksville Resident
November 26, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this
Sekou, What’s the status on Acie’s return? Is he still on schedule to come back by Wed.?
By Bird dog
November 26, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this
Chris:
Maybe the Spirit Group should have a meeting with ZaZa, and, uh, uh, uh, well how about Horford—after all, he doesn’t count as Black since he is Dominican.
By Ken Strickland
November 26, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
CHRIS, Terrence’s article wasn’t about the lack of Black players in MLB. It was about the lack of “AMERICAN BORN BLACK PLAYERS’ in MLB. There is a difference, even though it was still a useless article. Why don’t you reread it and get some clarity. By the way, here’s the answer to your question and the one posed by the article. IN MLB, IF THERE WERE MORE AMERICAN BORN BLACK PLAYERS AS GOOD AS THE FOREIGN BORN BLACK PLAYERS(MOSTLY FROM THE CARRIBIAN, ESPECIALLY THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC)THERE WOULD BE MORE OF THEM IN MLB. IF THERE WERE MORE WHITE PLAYERS TALENTED/ATHLETIC/VERSATILE ENOUGH TO PERFORM ON A LEVEL WITH THE KOBE’S, HOWARD’S, GARNETT’S, ASTAUDAMIRE’S, NASH’S, DUNCAN’S, DIRK’S, McHALE’S, BIRD’S, WALTON’S, PISTOL PETE’S ETC., YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR, THERE WOULD BE MORE OF THEM IN THE NBA.
As far as the Hawks are concerned, they have something in common with Boston and Orlando. Both teams are fragile, and are a key injury away from becoming average. These 2 teams couldn’t continue functioning at a high level(like Phoenix did without AStaudamire)without their respective engines, Garnett and Howard. The Hawks don’t have a player as dynamic as the above mentioned 2. Therefore, we need all of our parts in place, and healthy, in order to achieve maximum performance. If Zaza, Acie and Speedy were completely healthy, we’d be a difficult team to contend with. Few teams would be able to consistently match our combination of team speed and athleticism. The lack of cohesiveness, overall team confidence, experience, and injuries, are the only obstacles standing in the way of us being a serious high seated playoff contender.
By terrell barron
November 26, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Please dont respond to Chris; That’s ridiculous. Sekou, do you think we will sign Josh Smith long-term, and if so were does this leave Al Horford in the forseeable future. I’m sure they didn’t draft him to be a backup. Enlighten me with your thoughts. And by the way, whats up with “Craig”? Didn’t Joe say that he looked the best he’s ever seen this summer?
By I.MUS WRITE
November 26, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
DAM… thats really terrible about Sean Taylor.I hope he makes a full recovery. Sean this is Mus talking to u- You cant just hang and parlay in the hood when you got millions, people dont view u the same. No matter how gangsta you try to keep it, there are some yungn’z out here starving for real that dont give a dam bout you. White guyz in the NBA……… I think that white guys are more intrested in UFC fighting, baseball and soccer….. basketball is an after thought most times. Black guyz gravitate more twoards b-ball and football that’s just how it is… peoples intrests change. EXAMPLE: Young black kids are skate boarding like crazy-i live downtown and i see it all the time. The number of white guys in the league isnt the real issue -the real issue is how the Europeans are coming on hard and how they are going to take jobs eventually.Europeans are more fundamental and most play the game the right way opposed to high flyn dunks and no look passes… black ball players are better athletes but must come with the passion and dedication to stay in this league. Like i said the europeans are coming. How the hell did minnesota get up on us by 20 pts. thats rediculious
By Chris
November 26, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Ken Strickland. I lo9ve this quote:
“IF THERE WERE MORE WHITE PLAYERS TALENTED/ATHLETIC/VERSATILE ENOUGH TO PERFORM ON A LEVEL WITH…”
So, maybe if there were more American-born black players who could actually think, follow and react to a game pitch-by-pitch instead of mindlessly being able to jump real high and put a round ball in a round hole from 6 inches, there would be more in MLB, correct?
You, sir, are an absolute moron.
By Chris
November 26, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Terrell. We are all much happier knowing that you are policing this board and suggesting to whose posts others should respond. “That’s ridiculous”? Nice rebuttal there, T-Bone.
By terrell barron
November 26, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
I think it was a home-invasion. They also occur in the suburbs, my man.
By G Money
November 26, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
It is very amazing at the inconsistency of the Hawks. They certainly have talent enough to compete on a regular basis and as we have seen, with any team in the league (maybe with the exception of the Spurs). Yet, we really have no clue which Hawks team is going to show up. I also don’t think that we have a clue as to what really drives them. While these guys are professionals, it still points to leadership - leadership on the court and leadership on the bench.
Many get on Josh Smith about this or that but I think he is just trying as best he can to fill the on court leadership void. It is pretty clear that JJ isn’t that person. On the bench, you have to expect Woody to be the motivator as well as the teacher. The former skill seems woefully lacking. After 4 years and with a team full of vets, it seems that it would be less about X’s and O’s and more about getting guys mentally ready to play. The things you hear about some of the best coaches in the league have little to do with x’s and o’s and all to do with getting guys mentally ready to play. Certainly, for us a large part of the teaching should have been done in training camp. This month should be all about working out the kinks. December must be about playing for an entire month with the intensity that we have seen flashes of in parts of games.
ALSO, please continue to ignore this idiot Chris. He should take his toys and play elsewhere.
By mykhalc
November 26, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
fellas, PLEASE let CHRIS take that sh$t back over to TMOORE’s article/blog where it runs rampant!! PLEASE put him on ignore!!!
SEKOU, CHILS and MARVIN have talked about focus lately. well at this point, they know when they do what they do, and how they do what they do. so to me, it’s not about focus anymore it’s about WILLINGNESS or in their case LACK OF WILLINGNESS.
for WHATEVER reason they don’t have the WILLINGNESS to play like a TEAM the majority of the time. why that is, i don’t really know. but if i had to start from somewhere, it would be with WOODSON. i really think we are seein’ the lack of respect that ‘SOME’ have for him as their coach. i do not think that ‘some’ believe that he can get them to the next level. it’s the only reason i can think of that they REPEATEDLY do the same things over and over!!
By Chris
November 26, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this
You da man, G Money. Perhaps you and Terrell should just set up a site where you can post the opinions you like, and omit the ones you don’t.
By the way, what I asked Sekou in my first post was obviously a joke. If that was lost on you, well, perhaps you should develop some sort of sense of humor and not take every damn thing so seriously. Really, man. Grow up.
By I.MUS WRITE
November 26, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this
Chris: you need to stop while you are ahead. Dont come here making stupid comments about how black people dont think and are’nt smart enough to play baseball. Did you come over from the falcons blog.Just for the record we have really good black players in the majors -the problem is 90% of black people dont give a F__k about baseball period.Cris you make dum a* comments and i dont know why im even responding-so i wont anymore. Believe me what ever sport draws intrest in the black community-we will dominate!!!
By Ken Strickland
November 26, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
TERRELL BARON, thanks for the heads up. I responded because I assumed his comments were a mere misunderstanding on his part. The truth is, his comments were more appropriate for the various Falcon forums.
By terrell barron
November 26, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
Chris, please find another blog to write your garbage. This is the only one that is sill respectable around here. Dont ruin it. Lets try and stick with Hawks basketball.
By Chris
November 26, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
Well, mykhalc, they won’t let anyone post on T. Moore’s column. Hmmm….I wonder why? Perhaps because he’s a fanatical racist and they know they would have to shut it down within an hour because of his nonsense?
So I should be ignored because I made a joke about the lack of white players in the NBA? How about your boy Ken. S, saying that white men aren’t talented, athletic or versatile enough to play basketball with the black men? See any problem here, genius?
By terrell barron
November 26, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
Fire Woody, Hire Mark Jackson.
By Chris
November 26, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
Hey I.Mus, you need to learn to read, old chap. I didn’t say that was the case. I was using an over-the-top comparison in reference to Ken Strickland’s reasoning as to why there are few white people in the NBA. My God, people. You guys take things way, way too seriously. You act like a lit a cross on fire in someone’s yard. Actually, I’m through with you idiots. Someone can not make a(n obviously) ridiculous comment without the whole world jumping down their throats. Bunch of fools here, I say. Good day to you all and try to live life with a bit of lightheartedness. Stop being so damn angry.
By Chris
November 26, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
Great the you can dominate in sports, I.Mus. Wow, I really wish the white race could be dominant in a GAME.
By Tyger
November 26, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
The Hawks need to trade for Jermaine Oneal now before its too late. He would provide the inside presence to balance Joe Johnson’s outside game.
The Hawks are a talented scrappy bunch, but lack the consistent effort that veterans bring to the table every night.
The Hawks have $15M in expiring contracts to dangle in front of the Pacers and several young talents to choose from.
AC, JJ, Josh Smith, Marvin and Horford are the future. Add Jermaine Oneal to that mix and we can compete nightly with anybody.
Chill, ZaZa, Shelden and Salim immediately add quality depth to any team.
We could keep them and hope everything works out, but if you can get an All-star up-front why not?
By Hawksville Resident
November 26, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this
Wow, this blog is like watching the Wicked Witch of the West get hit in the face with a bucket of water!! Go Hawks Fans! lol
By TJ
November 26, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
i go to school in Connecticut; when I got home from the movies on Saturday, and checked the box scores, the Hawks were down 7 at the end of 3. Thought to myself: This game is winnable, but they are losing to the Wolves? Al Jeff must be carrying them (indeed he was). When I found out they were losing by 21 at one point, I was at a loss for words. A win is a win and I was proud that they put the clamp in the 4th quarter, but they can’t keep playing holding their collective breath at the end of games. Why not put a clamp on in the 2nd quarter; that way, the 3rd and 4th quarter focus can be on lowering the hammer…
The Joshes and Marvin need to be the fire for the team, since JJ doesn’t think his teammates respond to him/Coach Woodson. I think it explains the “ill-advised” things that JSmoove does sometimes, he’s trying to inspire. JJ inspires by carrying the team during stretches, the 3 of them, though, inspire by being frenetic, being all-over-the-place, in the paint, on the boards, down the court, at the rim. For the Hawks to win, the Joshes and Marvin have to be overwhelming. That’s how they beat the Mavs and Suns..that’s the key. A coach can only do so much to trigger such a response, and I’m sure he’s been telling them these things. At this point, the trigger should be innate. Woody needs to push some different buttons, for example…
The Bulls on Tuesday. Definitely a winnable game, since Chicago has no low post game. JSmoove owes Tyrus Thomas a poster after this Woody needs to be playing this link for Josh. That’s the way you light a fire in somebody.
PREDICTION: If JSmoove makes SportsCenter/NBA TV Top 10 on Tyrus, the Hawks won the game..
By I.MUS WRITE
November 26, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
Joking or not race is a sensitive subject in any arena-politics,sports,dating etc… so maybe you need to go somewhere else with your neo nazi views- what a loser. “learn to read” thats funny….. If white guyz possessed the skill set of black guys on the court -im sure they wouuld’nt mind signing million dollar contracts…Vise Versa with blacks and hockey-itz all about intrest- your argument is pointless. There are good white players in and out of the nba. Why does it alwyaz come back to race -in my opinion Lance Armstrong(white Guy) is the best athlete in modern sports -i have’nt seen a person of any race do what he’s done.
By terrell barron
November 26, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
Chris, I hate responding to your crap, but I think you misunderstood what Ken Strickland said. He never said that white players were not athletic/… I’ve got to say that I have disagreed with a lot of Ken’s comments, along with others, on this blog, but his comments are always respectable, and never aimed at anyone because of their race. I think he dogged Mike Vick in a way that I didn’t understand, but he has always been RESPECTABLE. Chris, if you are good enough, at any sport, you will be drafted, no matter what color you are. POINT BLANK.
By terrell barron
November 26, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this
Chris, I hate responding to your crap, but I think you misunderstood what Ken Strickland said. He never said that white players were not athletic/… I’ve got to say that I have disagreed with a lot of Ken’s comments, along with others, on this blog, but his comments are always respectable, and never aimed at anyone because of their race. I think he dogged Mike Vick in a way that I didn’t understand, but he has always been RESPECTABLE. Chris, if you are good enough, at any sport, you will be drafted, no matter what color you are. POINT BLANK.
By I.MUS WRITE
November 26, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this
Good looking TJ… man Josh has to redeem hiself on tuesday…. thats the first time i saw a player other than Amare dunk on smoove. Oneal is a good choice-though i think Aldridge would help us just as much this year and more in the upcoming seasons…. really does’nt matter -just get us some help on the blocks.I think ZAZA is worse than last year.Whats with all the flopping?
By Chris
November 26, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this
Um, no, I didn’t misunderstand.
Then you got I.Mus saying stuff like “If white guyz possessed the skill set of black guys on the court -im sure they wouuld’nt mind signing million dollar contracts.”
Would it be appropriate if I said, “If black guys possessed the skill set of white guys in the board room, I’m sure they wouldn’t mind signing million-dollar contracts?” No, that would not be appropriate. But since they’re essentially the same thing, and one is directed at a white man from a black man, that’s OK, right? RIGHT?
By Jay Black
November 26, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this
Chris, why are you looking for a fight on here? We’re talkin about the Hawks. What you are saying has nothing to do with the Hawks. Keep the race jokes, please. You see what happened to Kramer?
By MannyT
November 26, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
The Hawks are capable of beating the Bulls. They do not have much of an inside offensive game…and they are shooting like crap this season. Hopefully the locker room chat will include some let’s outwork these guys to a win.
For you Dave C. fans, maybe someone on this team can get a little Wayne Brady-ish on the opposition. It might be the nice guy attitude we need ;-)
By jmartin24
November 26, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
Why are we CHATTING about irrelevent issues?
Basically the last six spots in the East are up for grabs up to this point, but of course time will probably change that to maybe the last 2 to 4 especially with the mediocreness of the East after Boston, a rising Orlando, and Detroit.
Including the Hawks there are 9 teams within 2 1/2 games of the 3rd spot in the East. Granted the Hawks are at the bottom of that heap, but still the Hawks are still in the thick of things.
I agree that the Hawks are very on and off thus far but as the season goes on, they will find what works for them.
What works is D. Everyone wants them to run and run like Pheonix which is very affective for this team but even when they were running and and beating the Suns and Mavs and hanging in with the Pistons,it was the “D” that made it happen.
The Hawks have held the opponent to an average of 93 ppg in winning games, whereas in the losses opponents have scored an average of 101.7 ppg.
So I say with an emphasis on D, “How’s about now-ish?”
By Chris
November 26, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
I agree with your statement, Terrell. That’s why I brought up the ridiculous comparison between the lack of (American-born) black players in MLB and the lack of (American-born) white players in the NBA. It has nothing to do with race, only with talent. I was merely implying that Terence Moore is incorrect in thinking that MLB can do something to change it’s racial diversity.
The best talent (barring attitude problems) gets drafted, period. The fact is, there are not enough black kids playing baseball in this country to even come close to the amount of white players. Thats why I made the joke of asking Sekou to check into the NBA’s racial diversity.
Tongue-in-cheek, people.
By Chris
November 26, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this
Jay, I’m not looking for a fight. I jokingly made a comment about taking a look at the lack of white players in the NBA (jokingly because, as everyone knows, White Men Can’t Jump), and suddenly all hell broke loose.
By I.MUS WRITE
November 26, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
Okay let me dumb it down for you. If you randomly lined up 10 white guyz and 10 black guyz- chances are (overall)the black players are going to be better. Thats not me being racist or anything like that its just the way it is. Vise versa with Hockey- line the same guyz up and the outcome is the other way around. If there were more elite ball players who happened to be white -i know for a fact they would be getting the contracs that the Black and Euro athlete occupy. Cris dont mention me in any more of your entries, you’re tryn to bait me into a race debate-which i want no pert of . This blog is about basketball so lets keep it there. If u want to stir the pot go back to the falcons blog or go join your homie Don Imus.
By Richie Rich
November 26, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
As bad as our pointgaurd play has been, Billy Boy needs to be calling Earl Boykins agent and trying to work something out…..It can’t hurt
By jmartin24
November 26, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
Why are we CHATTING about irrelevent issues?
Basically the last six spots in the East are up for grabs up to this point, but of course time will probably change that to maybe the last 2 to 4 especially with the mediocreness of the East after Boston, a rising Orlando, and Detroit.
Including the Hawks there are 9 teams within 2 1/2 games of the 3rd spot in the East. Granted the Hawks are at the bottom of that heap, but still the Hawks are still in the thick of things.
I agree that the Hawks are very on and off thus far but as the season goes on, they will find what works for them.
What works is D. Everyone wants them to run and run like Pheonix which is very affective for this team but even when they were running and and beating the Suns and Mavs and hanging in with the Pistons,it was the “D” that made it happen.
The Hawks have held the opponent to an average of 93 ppg in winning games, whereas in the losses opponents have scored an average of 101.7 ppg.
So I say with an emphasis on D, “How’s about now-ish?”
By terrell barron
November 26, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
TYGER, who could we dangle, that Indy would be interested in, besides Smooth or Horford, that would make Indy part with Oneal? After all, they seem to be playing pretty good right now. How about Marvin, Sheldon, and Speedy’s contract for Oneal. And throw in Lorenzen for good measure. Could Bird be that Stupid? I dont think so.
By doc
November 26, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this
well i see the turkey landed and he doesnt have a mirror to see who he is, claiming he was just kidding as if he wanted to set the record staight. he could have before adding on to the “frivolity” of some of his asinine insinuations. seems like some have their own agendas just like terence does his and finds an unreceptive audience. guess we get turkey for one more day.
someone needs to tell the turkey to stop reading terence if he gets so riled up he has to bring it up here. we all know who has the problem. and how many did you slur and demean in your joke? whatever have your joke and be alone.
By Ken Strickland
November 26, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Let’s stop all of the discussion about race. It has proven to be nonproductive unless stirring sensitive emotions is the objective. Doing so will also eliminate most to the misunderstanding that seems to be occurring. I’ve had enough of that kind of crap on the Falcon side of the forum. The Hawks forum has always revealed the civilized, compassionate and intelligent side residing within the worldwide Atlanta community.
Even the way the two factions approach their respective team issues reflect the differences in mentalities. Most Falcon fans point fingers, assign blame, and go overboard seeking excuses to promote their personal issues and feelings toward both the team and individual players. Most Hawk fans offer/seek possible solutions, options and express overall team and player support.
CHRIS, having a sense of humor is a good thing, but only when it’s accompanied with common sense, compassion and civility. Your attempt at humor seems geared more toward provoking emotional responses rather than inspiring a simple chuckle. AS FAR AS THE HAWKS FORUM IS CONCERNED, EITHER FIT IN OR STAY OUT, PLEASE.
By cp
November 26, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this
Can we please leave that crap on the Falcons blog.. I dont want to see this blog go down the drain like that one… As far as the Hawks, they are a frustrating team to watch. They play up to the level of teams like a Dallas but will play down to a team like the Wolves although they won that game.. I really want to see Marvin get more agressive.. The kid is too talented not to get more opportunities… Coach has got to find a way to get him the ball more or just let him know he has to get kind of selfish out there.. The Bulls game is very winnable but it depends on which version of the Hawks show up.
By Astro Joe
November 26, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this
I thought it was a good move by Woody to keep the team in the MW region as opposed to returning home from Minnesota. I hope the guys got some “bonding time” in the Windy City and are ready for the Bulls tomorrow evening. Clearly, the Bulls are reeling and will likely come out super-energized to get their season on the right path. I can’t envision how we beat that team by only showing up for the second half. On the flip side, if the Hawks bum-rush them early the Bulls may retreat into the corner of the gym to avoid the boo-birds that would be raining down on them.
By Ryder
November 26, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
As much as I hate to interrupt this session of Ebony and Ivory, tyger makes a good point. If this team continues to tread water they may have to consider unloading a lot of expiring contracts at the end of this year for a veteran such as o’neal. I think part of the problem with this team getting down early by double digits is the fact that teams with dominant big men are able to establish themselves against a smaller lineup.
Therefore, it’s easy to jump out on the Hawks and force them to win via the jumper. If it’s not falling then they are in trouble. Having a low post presence to go along with Horford will help Atlanta establish some offense down low and prevent them from trailing too early.
Something to think about…
By Chris
November 26, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
Right on. Ryder. Exactly as I said before the season. Horford will be great, and ZaZa can pretty much handle his own. But we really need a big bruiser down low. I don’t even care if he doesn’t score a single point. We just need a big body to keep some of the opposing players out of the paint and keep them honest with the jump shot.
By Andrew
November 26, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
Sekou,
I love your blog, and I love that you went to Michigan, but seriously, from one alum to another, quit taking shots at your alma mater. You sound like an utter moron
By Ken Strickland
November 26, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this
CHRIS, I was wondering why so many of the regular posters, whom I respect, were coming down on you so hard. I went back and read some of your responses and your mentality really took me back to a bygone era. Back in the 50’s, especially in the south, there were few TV channels to watch and they were all in black and white. Here we are 50yrs later with digital satellite HDTV, and your perspective is as limited as the 50’s channel options and you are seeing everything in black and white.
If you honestly intend to single out a selected quote, you should present the quote in its entirety. You deliberately omitted the list of names mentioned in my quote. I mentioned the names of thirteen(13)players, six(6)Black and seven(7)White, as examples. TERRELL BARON, who obviously read my comment objectively and in its entirety, had no problem understanding my intent and/or meaning. Why were you, and your assumed superior intellect, unable to do the same? You have demonstrated beyond any doubt that you aren’t qualified to render a judgement on anyone else’s intelligence. You should purchase a good strong shovel and try reaching your collective IQ. Hopefully, that comment isn’t beyond your seemingly limited comprehensive ability.
By newkid
November 26, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this
Ryder, you’ve succeeded in raising an interesting issue. Thanks. I too have wondered how Billy is sorting through the ‘expiring contracts’ dilemma. Will he be tempted to try and package one or more with a young talent to get help this season? Will he seek to employ one or more in a trade deadline package in an attempt to secure a comfortable position in the 1st round of the upcoming draft? Will he allow each of the four contracts to expire, then use the unencumbered salary space to pursue a FA? Even at an appropriate wage, who might consider coming here under current circumstances? How would you sort it out?
Thanks
By Melvin
November 26, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this
Who can we offer to Indy. They’re already forward heavy with dunlevy,granger,murphy,digou(misp). I know it’s early but the Hawks may have choose the wrong year not to have a 1st round pick in the upcoming draft with pro prospects such as OJ Mayo, Derrick Rose, Mike Beasley and Roy Hibbert…
By jhan
November 26, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this
Doc, you sounded like a crafty vet on the radio today! I was hoping you would slip in a Hawks reference somewhere.
Jermaine O’Neal will look great sitting next to Speedy, Salim, Acie & ZaZa injured on the bench.
By NoD
November 26, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this
Want to make a run - FIRE WOODSON NOW
By newkid
November 26, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
Ken, Doris Lessing (recent Nobel Prize winner) tells a story in one of her books (“African Laughter”) about the young kids in Zimbabwe who were born after the so-called ‘Bush War’ of the 1870’s. Seems many of the older generation who participated in the Bush War often get disguested with those born in the 80’s and after who show little interest - and no tolernace - for all sorts of contortions by the pre-1980 crowd who gave life and limb to create Zimbabwe from Rhodesia. According to Ms Lessing, the ‘warriors’ (and the old Rhodies) have just an awful time making a go of the present because of how imbued they are with the past (yeah, I’ve been before).
Doc correctly pointed out to us awhile back that ‘real’ life is much more about today and tomorrow, rather than about yesterday. Kareem points out in his most recent book that sometimes it helps to look at one’s yesterday to assist one in directing his tomorrow, but to dwell on ‘yesterday’ is to destroy the opportunities to create a new tomorrow. Such destruction seems sometimes to be in the DNA of a few.
By Tap Daddy
November 26, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
Jhan, now that’s funny cause I was thinking the same thing…with all the bad luck that we Hawks fans have expericenced with Speedy and his bad knees, we need to be real cautious about pursuing Jermaine O’neal…When healthy he’s one of the elite centers that can make an impact on both ends of the floor, but it just seems like for the past 3 or 4 years he’s missed a significant amount of time due to knee problems. I just hope we have our medical staff take a real close look at those knees before we go breaking the bank for him….
By Ken Strickland
November 26, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
RYDER, I agree with your comments. However, I don’t think they will wait until the end of the season. Most teams will know by the allstar break what there overall season will be like. That is when they will be looking to dump both players and contracts. Teams with a chance to make the playoffs will be willing to acquire these players and their contracts.
I don’t see the Pacers giving up Oneal unless we give something valuable in return. I’m sure getting Oneal would be an upgrade at the 5 position. But considering what we might have to give up to get him, would he make us an appreciably better team overall. Personally, I’d like to see us strengthen our bench, especially at the 5 and PG positions. Our starting 5 is really pretty good. It’s when we go to our bench, usually in the 2nd qtr, that we suffer our lapses.
By doc
November 26, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this
jhan, remember the format was integrity in business, therefore i would be speechless if asked about our beloved hawks in that situation. heh heh
guys we are at a pivotal moment, is the team going to be just that or have we seen the mirage of instead of one forward and two back we are left with two forward and four back? i remarked that the team after their debacle had a choice going onto the road and somehow put the pieces together to become winners or be thrown to the wayside of the nba shipyard and turn this into an early meaningless season. seems today they have avoided the becoming a shipwreck.
hate to put so much on j smash but if he becomes j slop we usually are going to lose as we did against san antonio,if he becomes j smoove (man, i hate that moniker) we may lose, if he becomes j smash then this team has a great chance of success. he is the one who has to define his role and it wont be by forcing shots whether it is inside or outside but by taking what will open up to him during a game if he lets his other teammate establish themselves first.
hey newk, been missing you man.
anybody seen the chewed on turkey leg? sadly, i am sure there will be leftovers, just want to prepare folks for the inevitable.
go hawks!
By Ken Strickland
November 26, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this
NEWKID, your point is very well taken and eloquently presented. You’re an excellent example of my earlier post concerning the intellect, compassion, understanding and perception of the majority of our Atlanta Hawk fans worldwide.
By roan st
November 26, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
I hate to be negative about the hawks two game win streak because damnit I’m a diehard since the late seventies. But lets get real they beat two teams that have won three games combined. When I see them start to win against even mediocre teams on the road I might start to believe we are turning the corner. If the hawks can ever take care of busines at home and hold their own on the road then they will finally give us some hope. For now I still see the status qou and believe woody needs to go until proven otherwise.
Tyger, I think jermaine oneal is talented but it seems like he misses to many games. And he hasn’t really carried Indiana like other great players seem to do for their teams. He’s worth inquiring about but I bet Indiana would ask for way to much in return. What package do you think we could offer?
By MannyT
November 26, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this
What to do with a stack of expiring contracts?
Most teams would see this as an opportunity to snag a good free agent in the off season. However, the free agent has to want to come here. This reminds me of the Bulls when they got Ben Wallace. Let’s be real, he came for the cash—he was already on a better team. Learn from that history. If we have to potentially resign the Joshes, how much cash does team Spirit really plan to put out…especially if the ownership thing is not settled.
Trade the expiring contracts for an established vet big man to clog the middle on defense that cannot reasonably refuse to come here. I could see NJ letting J. Collins go (for Lo Wright & AJ) to get some contract relief as Sean Williams blossoms. If Greg Oden were healthy, Portland might take the same deal for Joel Pryzbilla (but Hawks may not want contract that long.)
By demtris
November 26, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this
THE ATLANTA (BASKETBALL HAWKS) NEED A POINT GUARD… thats it,thats the problem…nothings wrong with the team, no one needs to get fired. j smoove does not need to get traded…, do we watch the same games?…The Atlanta Hawks need a point guard…getting luke ridnour (i know he’s hurt) but it could be like getting that suns point guard (no im not crazy, or high) he runs the point the right way (energy, leadership) how about anthony johnson, lorenzen wrong(4give me 4 the spelling) and i’ll let BK fill the last trade piece… oh yeah Shelden Williams needs more clock at the 5 spot…please people this is just how I fell about my team…hawks fan since the Nique days…
By RAD
November 26, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this
I hear what you are saying Sekou but…As I watched the Hawks the other night against the Heat I saw ZaZa look absolutely pathetic. He was playing against a very uninspired Shaq. However, Shaq stood there flat footed and just watched ZaZa continue to make a fool of himself. Just like last year, ZaZa puts his head down and tries to plow his way to the basket. He never kicks the ball back out. If we are to become a playoff team, then ZaZa should play only 10-12 minutes a game max. You don’t need a 6’10” player who plays 6’4”. ZaZa is what he is and he’s not an NBA starter. Next… I know we have injuries but why in the world is Anthony Johson getting so many minutes? We do have other options. It appears to me that AJ pitched a fit with Woody and left the arena one recent road game. The next thing you know AJ is starting and getting minutes that he does not deserve. With AJ and ZaZa starting, that’s 40% of your line-up that probably would not make most NBA rosters. We have a very good group of young players who love to get up and down the court. Horford needs to start at center (until we get one). Anyone on the team needs to play point guard except AJ. Woody needs to quit trying to appease certain players and coach like there is no tomorrow. I hope Woody wakes up before he ends up coaching in a rec league. I guess that wouldn’t be too bad. At least he would have a center and a point guard to get his team started.
By HB Ando
November 26, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this
Wow, I take a week off, to go to Charleston, for Thanksgiving, and I come back to the Hawks’ blog, and find it’s been hi-jacked, and converted to a wholly unoriginal debate on ‘racial inequity in professional sports’.
Good thing I didn’t miss anything important. Or earth shattering.
But a special shout out to Chris, who tried to pick a fight about race on a pro hoops’ blog. Neat-O…
We’re 5-7. Lost a couple we, arguably, shouldn’t have, and won a couple that we, arguably, shouldn’t have.
But we still have no viable PG. We have a couple guys with the head, but not the legs, and a rookie, if he could just get healthy, who has the legs, but not yet the veteran’s head (this was pointed out during pre-season, as a realistic confound to our success this year, though few actually thought it through).
And we still lack a starting center. So, we’ll continue to play a back-up, in Zaza, or a PF, in Horford, and hope for the best.
And that really is the strategy for the Hawks’ “braintrust”, isn’t it? Throw a bunch of $hit on the wall and see what sticks? Doesn’t matter that there’s talent here. There’s no plan. There’s no direction.
The uncertainty is kind of like when the famous Ron Burgandy was quoted as saying, “I’m Ron Burgandy?”.
Finally, leave it to Tyger to opine that our solution, at center, is a $20 million a year guy, who’s out, for the zillionth time, with knee problems, and who views himself as a power forward (and who shot .436% from the field last year, in what I think was a clear attempt to solidify his assertion that he IS NOT a center, objective proof, as what center shoot 43% from the field?).
These guys haven’t made a note worthy move in years, once the season has started. So why would anyone think things will change during THIS season?
By Wink from Lithonia
November 26, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this
What about now-ish? This team is miscast at all positions. I offer an overview & best fit for this team.
We had a need for a point guard—- we now have five of them.
AC Law - rookie - ask to facilitate offense,appears to be deployed for defense; Real shame should be a starter who given free reign to run the team, but brake being applied by Coach Woody.
Tyron Lue - best back up point guard pressed into starter duty - like an overused baseball closer will break down, then we lose his true value to team as best back up option.
Anthony Johnson - 3rd guard at best. Now our starter due to injury. Been in the league 8+ years and has not started for anyone.
Salem - is not a point guard. Confidence has been ruin by Woody. He not really a shooting guard - too small; best used as instant offense off the bench. Woody only see’s fit to put him in games when we are 15-20 point down…why not use earlier.
Speedy - overpaid free agent; only contribution is to all AFLAC team. Washed up & should be discarded.
JJ - is a reluctant superstar, who does not want the ball when game on line. I seen him pass the ball to others to take the last critical shot. I always ask if Kobe,Bird,Tracy, or Dominque would pass off…he afraid to fail. I hate to admit this, but he should be our point guard who scores without the expectation of being a shooting guard.
Marvin - is way to soft to be a small forward, he really has no hops. Best fit would be to make him our shooting guard. He only wants to shoot that little tweener jump shot in the pocket, which he CAN make. We should run him off screens and let him close out games in the 4th quarter, just like Randy Wittman use to do for Fratello’s teams (note to Woody get some old game film and take a look… it worked)
Josh Smith - first remove that silly nickname of JSmoove. That may help you remember you do not have a jumpshot any better than most shooting guards in high school. Use as our small forward, but use on pick and rolls, on the low block. Allow him no other plays. He has to get his off the glass and provide weakside defense.
Al Horford - he is not a center, use only as power forward on low block and screens for Marvin & JJ & Salem. Rotate ball to him on mismatches. Play strong defense this year with his head because refs are not allowing him to be physical with any marqee players yet!
Zaza - is really not a center,but he is all we got.Use him to create space on offensive end by moving him away from the basket he has a decent jump shot. This would allow more room for Josh & Chills.
JChill - 1st can keep his nickname. Dude is the only player being used right by Woody. He is an effective 6th man. Can help bring ball up court, play shooting guards, and go down in paint for rebounds. Run no plays for him because he is a scorer who takes advantage of opportunity.
Sheldon - no longer the landlord - unless he uses his fouls to punish the little point guards that attack our rim on a nightly basis. “He should make sure they pay rent in the lane” (See injury to AC Law for example of what I mean).
Solo - is almost 7 feet, should be able to use his fouls and defend our basket. He has to play in order to help again, not sure why Woody want play him.
Mario West - sick him on anybody that is scoring the basketball. We have to develop one play like Bruce Bowen for defense & hustle only.
Lorenzen - Good Bye - Why is he on the team????
Starting Five:
JJ- point Marvin - shooting guard Josh - small forward = slash Al - power forward Zaza - center
Chills - small forward AC Law - pt / spot starter Lue - shooting guard Sheldon William - PF Solo - Center / Defense
This gives us our best chance
Oh yeah - FIRE WOODY!!!
By newkid
November 26, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this
Vocation and avocation both keeping me busy doc, but I do pop in every now and again to see if there’s anything new. I see Sekou continues to put it out there and the liar’s den regulars continue to … well, you get the gist.
Season’s best to you cats.
By BosnianBaller
November 26, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this
Classic Dave Chappele episode.Can somebody tell me why we dont have a true center.Thats killing us.Bogut and their pg had a lay up drill in Milwaukee couple games ago and al jefferson killed the hawks inside.I hope BK trades for somesort of big man. Kelvin Cato isn’t anywhere
By new jersey faithful
November 26, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this
My head is spinning from all this race talk! I cant keep up with you guys.Chris, go get lost!! All I know is the Hawks will make the playoffs(barring serious injuries)and all the pain and suffering will be over for us poor Hawks fans.
By HB Ando
November 26, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this
One other thing about all this racial talk:
To quote the great Michael Jackson (and to segue off of one of Sekou’s recent posts),
“I’m Starting With The Man In The Mirror I’m Asking Him To Change His Ways And No Message Could Have Been Any Clearer If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place (If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place) Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change (Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change) (Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na, Na Nah)”
I think the most insightful words, in that refrain, are:
‘Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na, Na Nah (I’m a little confused by the significance of that final “h”….what does it represent?)’
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it………
By HB Ando
November 26, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this
“Kelvin Cato isn’t anywhere”
…..and ‘everyone knows, this place is no where’………
It takes a special mind to link up Neil Young and the Hawks’ blog.
Seriously.
By mykhalc
November 26, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this
ANDO, you know, we know, you’re special!!!! seriously…hehe
glad to know you had a good holiday bro…
By Adam
November 26, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this
It’s kind of ridiculous how the Hawks compound their problem of not having a center by playing everyone else out of position - as if this would make up for the lack of beef in the middle. Horford is not a 5 and Smith is not a 4.
I agree with Ando: there’s no plan. With the aforementioned lineup, you would have to install a gameplan, and a coach who not only advocates that plan but is effective at implementing it, of running your opponents out of the gym. That’s the whole point of ‘going small.’ But the Hawks instead run out an ‘athletic’ lineup and flounder, predictably, in a stale half-court offense. And of course they can’t deal with talented, or even marginally talented big men. Until (1) they land a viable, NBA-caliber big man, and (2) Acie Law develops, they’re going to be a a very athletic, mismanaged 35-win team.
And yes, Everybody Says This Is Nowhere is a great album.
By JP
November 26, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this
Wink, you are so right. I agree with everything you say. Woodson tries to match up with the rest of the league with his lineups. He should make the league matchup with a big point guard in Joe and two 6-8 athletic wings in Marvin, Josh, and Josh. Let Al stay at the 4 and post him up to give them that presence they need to play more inside-out.
I like IMUS WRITE’s idea-Make a trade to get Aldridge.
This lineup would score more points, but more importantly it would give the Hawks a big rebounding advantage. By using their length, the defense would be better, too. When the Bulls were winning every year they had Ron Harper at the point and two athletic wings. That trio’s length on defense gave everyone fits. Horford could play the role of Rodman. And like those bulls, we would have a stiff in the middle- that’s why it would be nice to have Aldridge.
By j-dawg
November 26, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this
i agree with chris. white people are discriminated against on a daily basis in the nba. also, the hawks organization as a whole, is racist. they don’t like white people and prefer not to have them on the team. i think the hawks should be sued by players such as kirk hinrich, luke ridnour and dan dickau for not having white people. who knows, maybe that’s the reason why the hawks haven’t won.
By HB Ando
November 26, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this
Adam, thanks for the subtle correction. As soon as I hit “post”, I knew that I’d screwed the line. You are a gentleman for not calling me an idiot (though you missed a great opportunity to jump on a crowded bandwagon…).
By Tiger Woo
November 26, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this
Hey j-dawg,
How many “black” team owners are there in the NBA? I hope you are joking like Chris claimed to be. If not, you have a lot to learn.
By j-dawg
November 26, 2007 10:41 PM | Link to this
tiger,
the owner of the bobcats is black. and they discriminated against adam morrison and told him he couldn’t play this year because he was white. so there.
By Tiger Woo
November 26, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this
C’mon j-dawg - can’t you come up with something better than that?
Adam Morrison has a torn left knee ligament - is out for season.
You need to do your research before you make silly responses.
By HB Ando
November 26, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this
Well, ……that and the torn ACL………
By j-dawg
November 26, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this
tiger (if that even is your real name),
morrison tore his ligament? true. but do you know how? a bunch of black panthers bum rushed him and hit him in the leg with a tire iron. the attack was commissioned by michael jordan and the bobcats owner.
the nba has an unspoken goal of ridding the NBA of white people. it’s a shame too, because the nba’s best days were those of bob cousy and george mikan. in those days, raw athleticism wasn’t good enough. in the “and 1” years of today, we are stuck with punkazz bustas like ricky davis throwing the ball at the rim of the defender’s goal on an inbound pass in an attempt to get a triple-double (last week messed ‘round and got a triple double/didn’t even have to use my AK)
By Professor
November 26, 2007 11:57 PM | Link to this
Wink, that was BK’s vision when he made this roster. I don’t know why he’s deviated from that now. JJ is a very good PG when he plays there, much better than anyone we have on the roster right now. He gets the rock as soon as we cross half court anyway, so I don’t see the difference. He has shown he can dish out 10 assist at anytime and we know he can score. I think we are more effective with him creating for our athletes. And that lineup does cause matchup problems.
By mykhalc
November 26, 2007 11:57 PM | Link to this
Wink, totally with you on ACIE bein’ given full reign to run the team. been sayin’ that since the pre-season!!!
the big lineup with JJ and MW at the guard spots works offensively but defensively, kinda don’t think so!! JJ can play great D when he wants but a lotta the PGs are just too quick for him. and MW would definitely be trippin’ over his feet at the 2 defensively. but i do like it in spots, for sure!!
bottom line, give ACIE the damn ball!!!!
good game on between GSW and PHO. GSW had 72 pts in the first half. NELLIE BALL!!!!!!!
By LA Hawk
November 27, 2007 12:43 AM | Link to this
This roster, this front office, this organization is SH—ITE until there is accountability on every level.
If you don’t dive after a loose ball…you’re gone!…if you have a sub .300 winning %, you’re gone!… if you draft someone without meeting them face-to-face…you’re gone! if you get used to losing…you’re gone (player, coach or exec!) This entire scenario - the rebuild BS, ownership BS —is all crap and if you guys continue to buy tickets to see this chit you’re no better than Chicago Cub fans (why should they put $ into the team when they sell out every game!). Quit going (don’t even go when Lebron is in town) — make the “highlight joke” a ghost town, no parking , no pizza, no beer — EFF these a-holes and this so-called franchise until they get serious…when they get serious then we can spend our serious money on them until then dump this crap and let them spew. We’ve all been WWWAAAYYY TOOOOO optimistic over the last two years to get this type of chitty azz product. Dump them all keep Mario and go from there…at least he gives a dam and appreciates the opportunity.
This joke is on us…the fans who continue to hope in this farce. They’re laughing at us cuz they (the owners, the management and the players) aren’t even trying. No other market in the country would take a minute of this chit much less 4 years!!! Be a winner and expect winners…don’t take this bull__ anymore or we’re as much losers as they are!
By LA Hawk
November 27, 2007 1:21 AM | Link to this
…we can talk x’s and o’s all night but guess what? we’ve been doing it for three effing years and it DOESN’T MATTER. Guess what? I don’t care if Marvin is soft or the JSmith shoots too much or that Speedy sux or that Zaza doesn’t hustle…you’ve just given me three big fat reasons to dump three losers out of a winning organization (of which we are NOT - and won’t be til we ACT like champions!)
The ONLY thing that matters is winning (a close second is WINNING with class - but winning is still first there). We have to can it with the excuses and the this and the that quit accepting period!!! It used to mean something positive to be a Hawk or be an Atlanta sports fan now it’s just a bunch a bunch of people making a bunch of excuses for not winning championships!
By LA Hawk
November 27, 2007 1:47 AM | Link to this
Oh yeah, one last thing — if you’re good looking and someone call you ugly you don’t have to say anything to defend yourself. If you’re smart and someone calls you dumb - you don’t have to say anything to defend yourself…and if you’re NOT racist and someone calls you racist you don’t have to say anything to defend yourself.
By Chris
November 27, 2007 2:32 AM | Link to this
LA Hawk, you’re a pigmental opportunist.
By LA Hawk
November 27, 2007 2:40 AM | Link to this
Guess what? Being a fan of a team when they’re pathetic and losing and not trying does not make you a ‘real fan’…it makes you an idiot. If this organization ever starts winning again it doesn’t make you a ‘better fan’ or more ‘die hard’ because you supported them in their ‘down years’ it just means you are more of buffoon and prolonged the agony of losing by giving money to an inept organization delaying their need to produce a winner. By some deep-rooted need to cling to a loser because you live in the same city, you’ve enabled losing to continue far longer than if you’d dump this fools on the curb years ago…any ‘real’ fan knows you don’t accept this BS, everyone here is a SUCKER…at least Sekou is getting paid!
By LA Hawk
November 27, 2007 2:44 AM | Link to this
Chris, You’re an accepting loser.
By LA Hawk
November 27, 2007 2:52 AM | Link to this
BTW Chris, Good luck in your junior year at Tech!
By Hawksville Resident
November 27, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this
LA “Hawk”… We need that name back, from now on you’re just LA! How can you speak on a subject that you clearly know nothing about because you don’t go to the games! And you consider yourself a real fan? Do you even watch them on T.V.? lol I know I should just put on my spam blocker for your insane comments but when you are a fan you are a fan for better or worse and excuse me but It does feel better you’ve supported them when nobody else would and they finally win ask Boston Red Sox fans! But I say, Fine don’t come to the games. This year when you’re looking for playoff tickets sitting behind all the real fans, we’ll just consider you one of the thousands of bandwagon fans comming to support OUR TEAM!
By doc
November 27, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this
interesting night las night as most of the have nots won and portland lost at home. guess the betting lines got a whooopppin last night.
By kwooden1
November 27, 2007 8:20 AM | Link to this
Another big learning experience game for the Hawks. They know they can play defense when they really need to and can move the ball if focused. Chicago needs a win very badly and are playing at home tonight. Lets find out if Woodson can get the guys to start the game with energy and defensive intensity. If they play the way they did against Minnesota, they will get run out of the building. (Minnesota just beat New Orleans last night, with Chris Paul, pretty good for 1 win team before last night)
Just to keep everything in perspective, please keep the Taylor family (Sean Taylor, Redskins Safety) and friends in your prayers.
GO HAWKS!
By Myrtle Beach
November 27, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this
Wink from Lithonia needs to be the coach, he is right on! The Spirit need “Wink” bad. Finally someone knows how to turn this team into a 50+ game winner! Help me out guy’s Hawks +5 198 over/under?
By jhan
November 27, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this
The T’Wolves beat the Hornets with Chris Paul playing? Impossible. If we had drafted him we would be undefeated right now! LOL
By Chris
November 27, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
LA Crock needs to go away. Yes, cheering your team in the worst of times DOES make you a better fan. Because when they make it to the promised land, you will have been there through all the hard times and victory tastes much sweeter when you’re accustomed to the bitterness of losing.
When the Falcons went to the Super Bowl, it meant much more to my family than to most. My dad and grandfather have had season tickets since 1966, and having witnessed their ineptness through time, the payoff was much greater.
You fair-weather fans can stay at home. Just don’t start coming to the games when the team starts winning. Showing up only when your team does well does well does not make you a better fan; it makes you a hypocrite.
By Ken Strickland
November 27, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
Please don’t start that Cris Paul thing again. The next 3gms will be a test of this teams progress and maturity to this point. We’ve already seen how well they can perform against top tier West coast teams. We need to see how well they can perform against lessor teams they should be able to handle.
Don’t give up on this team. The past few yrs we were asking or expecting the Hawks to play beyond their talent, experience and maturity. This yr we’re asking or expecting them to play up to their talent, experience and maturity. For this yr those are reasonable expectations to say the least. I still say wait until the allstar break before making any rash judgement calls on the team.
If we reach the allstar break playing at or near 500 ball, we can make the playoffs with a good 2nd half push. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
ps; It is truely sad about Sean Taylor. There seems to be an emerging trend of burglaries and assaults against pro athletes of late. Some of the misfortune might be attributed to poor decisions made by the athlete. When one reaches a certain economic level he/she should also seek to correspondingly elevate him/herself socially, politically and mentally/psychologically as well.
By Chris
November 27, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this
Umm, Ken S., the man was not declared deceased until but a few hours ago. Could you please save the condescending, judgmental preaching for a later date?
By Tap Daddy
November 27, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this
Ken Strickland, I somewhat agree with your last paragraph but at the same time this man was at his house…same with Eddy Curry and Antoine Walker this summer, those two were both held at gunpoint in the comforts of their homes….I mean, what kind of world do we live in where you cant sleep safe in your own home, its not like he was chillin’ on the block and got shot, he was in the bed……But the problem I have is that society trys to crucify these same athletes and entertainers when they get pulled over and have guns on them or go to the club and take their weapons with them. Shoot, I would stay strapped to if I was in their situation. (I got a conceilled weapons permit so i always keep mine lol) But I just think society needs to take a long look at the fact that these guys are “targets” because of the wealth they have and there are a bunch of crazy folks running the streets looking for a quick come up…It really is sad situation…I know we suppose to be talking about our beloved Hawks but just had to get that off my chest…..
By Chris
November 27, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
And back to the Hawks…
I’ll be at the game tomorrow, so I really hope we beat Chicago tonight and I get to see the Hawks reach .500. Hopefully they only go up from here.
By Come On Al!
November 27, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
The Hawks will be fine. I just want Al Holford to get me some more fantasy points.
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
RIP SEAN TAYLOR
Back to the Hawks, lets see Bull, Bucks on a back to back schedule. These are the game we win if we can dare to say playoffs after timeouts. We’ll see.
By Chris
November 27, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
The NBA’s scheduling really burns me. There are times when your team has 3 days between games, and then there are times when you play a game on the road and have to fly home and play the next day. Can’t they work this stuff out in a better fashion?
By morris
November 27, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this
The Sean taylor incident is starting to look more like a “hit” or some kind of revenge killing than robbery. News is starting to leak out that nothing was taken from the home and the phone lines were cut before the intruder broke in. If the phone lines were cut then the intruder knew he was home, right? Why didn’t the intruder demand money or some kind of valuables. From the reports I have read he just burst into the bedroom shot taylor and fled. Also just 8 days prior to the latest break in somebody had ransacked his home and left a butcher knife laying on his bed. Now I’m no crimminal justice expert but it sounds like some kind of message was being sent to taylor. I just hope the police find whoever is responsible and they receive the death penalty.
By Ryder
November 27, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
I can’t comment much more on the Sean Taylor issue. It’s sad enough hearing about it 10 hours a day here in DC.
Back to the Hawks though, in the event this team doesn’t want to make a deal, then maybe they should do more to have Horford involved in the offense. I mean this guy is capable of putting up 15-11 right now! Mix it up a little Woodson and don’t be afraid to get the ball into Al in the low post.
If you do insist on playing him at 5 then take advantage of his talent around the hoop. Part of the problem with this team and why the trail so early all the time is attributed to the fact that they don’t do enough scoring down low to offset these early runs. Horford can do more than just rebound and block shots.
By Tap Daddy
November 27, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
I was reading espn earlier and I think we need to try to get in the picture to sign and trade for Anderson Varejao…I think he would be a perfect fit on this team. He has the size to play inside and takes pride in doing all the little things on the floor. We need a pesty big guy who can run the floor and rebound and wants to be a force in the paint, sets hard screens, we could use that…..I would take his defense and toughness any day over Zaza and his offensive ability. I know he’s trying to get more than he’s probably worth but if I was a member of management I might risk over spending for a quality big guy like Varejao….
By doc
November 27, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this
chris you are the king of projection, as you preach and condescend about the falcons and who can and cant come to games you respond to comments by ken? you are really funny like you pretended to be after the fact or now the liars table FOOL. your choice, dude.
the schedule is what it is chris. it is for money and coverage of all the days of the week so games can be bet on or watched every night. otherwise they could go to a three day a week games.
the taylor thing is really sad. a guy with an unsettled past apparantly making ammends. did his past catch up with him or did he revisit it during his injury time away? probably we will find out in the future and it may not be what we want to hear, however, any such loss is unnecesary.
By Tap Daddy
November 27, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this
…and if there ever was a game to watch last night it was the Warriors vs Suns game…..both those teams push the basketball on every dang possession…whether it’s a made basket or a miss…the difference with those two organizations is that there coaches arent scared to take risk, and there both COMMITTED to playing that style of basketball…Don Nelson basically doesnt worry about positions and just throws out his best players…he started Baron Davis, Ellis, Jackson, Matt Barnes and Al Harrington last night against Nash, Bell, Hill, Marion and Amare..I just wish Woodson would be creative like that and not be afraid to go away from conventional basketball of 3 littles and 2 bigs on the court at all times..to many times it looks like Woodson worries about matchups rather than forcing the issue and making teams adjust there style of play…
By Chris
November 27, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
It’s one thing to talk about fair-weather fans, Doc. It’s quite another to make disparaging statements about a man whose body has not yet even cooled. If you can not realize that you need to have your head examined.
Actually, 90% of the people on these ajc blogs need to have their heads examined.
I quit. I have had it with these boards. You people have fun barking and yelling at each other. I will instead do something productive with my time, rather than waste it on the likes of Doc and Ken S.
By roan st
November 27, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Chris, you come on here to begin with making bone headed comments like this one: “So, maybe if there were more American-born black players who could actually think, follow and react to a game pitch-by-pitch instead of mindlessly being able to jump real high and put a round ball in a round hole from 6 inches, there would be more in MLB, correct”?
And now you attack Doc without justification, for being insensitive. One of the blogs longest tenured and most respected members. LOL! P.S. Please just go away!
By terrell barron
November 27, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
Thats the truth. Everytime our opponents coach changes his lineup, Woody thinks he has to do the same to MATCHUP, regardless of the situation. Make the other team adjust for a change, Woodrow. He looks like he goes into panic mode sometimes, trying to MATCHUP.
By Ken Strickland
November 27, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this
CHRIS, why don’t you back up, get a running start, and kiss my anus, OK.
By G Money
November 27, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this
Yippee! I hope Chris is a man of his word.
As for the Hawks…I like the idea of tossing the ball down into the lowpost to see if we can score. Horford has excellent hands and could easily pass out of a double team or trap to find the open man or take a baby hook shot, etc or at least get fouled. We have to make their bigs work as hard on defense as they do on offense.
Beating the Bulls and Bucks is a tall order. If we have things strapped up from the start, I think we can beat both. However, I am hopeful of 1-1. I predicted that the Hawks would win 7 this month. If they win 6, I’m all right with that, particularly with the disarray caused by pg injuries.
By just curious
November 27, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
You mean to tell me that there are people in this world who are willing to cut your phone lines, break into your house, and kill you while you are resting in bed, and we are sending people to federal prison for animal cruelty. PRICELESS
By doc
November 27, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
bye, kitchen can get hot.
btw after a long life around and in the medical field as well as management consulting i have had many opportunities to have my head examined. it has been just fine, in fact had one just a few days ago. chris, thanks for your concern your compassion and empathy has no bounds.
chris we dont always agree and have some heated retorts but for the most part come down to agreeing to disagree. most of us come here for their passion about the hawks not to pretend some other agenda. you are always welcome but many (what 90%) will call someone out if they tend to go in another misdirection. pretty good bunch all that i would go into battle with. oh, by the way when you find yourself a odds with 90% it is either you or you need another group to associate with as you probably are going to feel left out.
By Ryder
November 27, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
Tap Daddy,
I agree with your sentiments. One problem though: Woodson lacks the pantalones to actually do something that bold! It’s no wonder the Hawks are always trailing big at the beginning of games: He has no idea how to get this talented squad to dominate. Nelson has that “F The world” mentality that lets his opponents know they aren’t going to dictate how they play.
Woodson allows the other team to mentally get into the Hawks’ heads and hope that the defense will bail them out. Not smart coaching.
By Tap Daddy
November 27, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this
Doc, keep doing what you do….don’t waste your time and key strokes entertaining foolishness…
By doc
November 27, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
g, tall is the emphasis especially for the bucks or if the bulls bring their best and beat us up like they did last year. it continues to be our weak link and until we can find a way to get our height challenged hawks to scheme to overcome it, it will continue to be so. bucks have height, speed in mo and a really talented 2 to open the lanes.
By Melvin
November 27, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this
The Bulls are small or maybe smaller than we are (especially in the backcourt). The key to beating them is to contain their guards. If they shoot well from the outside then they are tough to beat. They don’t score enough in the paint to present a major threat to us. Now if we decide to give up lay ups (i.e. the Spurs game) then we may have a long nite.
The majority of the Bucks wins has been at home. We’ll put them to the test we they come to Phillips.
By doc
November 27, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
melvin last year they physically beat us with brown and wallace taking it to us down under as well as thomas coming of age in the latter part of the year. not too sure what they are bringing this year and their record suggests not much. maybe they will underestimate us like the heat and the t’wolves seemed to have done.
t d didnt realize i was soo entertaining in my moments of weakness. heh heh
By roan st
November 27, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
Tonight we will find out if we are truly “road warriors”. The bulls have smacked us upside the head 11 times in a row. Haven’t beat em since the 2004 season so I will be damned impressed if our road streak hits three against the bulls. Then maybe I will start to believe we are “turning the corner”. If we look lethargic and not ready to play tonight we will get terminated because chicago is not minnesota.
By doc
November 27, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this
roan your 5:38 post yesterday says what so many of us are wont to do and what i alluded to in saying that maybe those teams as bad as they are looked past us and put it into low gear and couldnt find the clutch later in the game. chicago is ripe to be gotten and is a team we should beat if we are truly to think the team has found the path. lose to them and flounder again at home to the bucks and we are right back where we were last week.
By Tap Daddy
November 27, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
Doc, i was referring to you going back to and forth with that one guy who’s name i wont mention..let him go find another blog to ruin, you just stick to talking basketball with the rest of us fans…….
By doc
November 27, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this
t d got it from the start, lightly we tread through life huh? keep smiling.
By Lamar Mundane
November 27, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this
Yo, can we ship ZaZa in a sign and trade to the Cavs for Andy. He, Smoove and Al could tighten our interior defense for years to come.
By Tap Daddy
November 27, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this
Lamar Mundane, man we are on the same page because I suggested the same thing earlier…Will someone that understands the ins and outs of the salary cap let me know if that is a possible sign and trade (Varajao for Pachulia and maybe something else)be something we have any chance of pulling off?
By Astro Joe
November 27, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this
Tap Daddy, Zaza makes $4M and Varejao wants close to $10M. Let’s assume that we could get him at $8M (still too much in my opinion), we would need to add an expiring deal (AJ, Lo or Lue) to Zaza to make it work with salaries. I’m not sure that we would be able to resign both Joshes if we make that deal, however.
By Asdogg
November 27, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this
I bet Hawks lose tonight. They will play the listless style of basketball that has become their trademark as of late. It will be one on one basketball on offense and layups for the other team on defense. You guys knock the SI season preview article on this team but it was dead on. This team has yet to show any growth or maturity this season. Its probably due to their core group of players being 21 yrs old. Until they add some serious vets or this team comes together by a miracle, they are going nowhere.
By j
November 27, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this
WATCH OUT EASTERN CONFERENCE FOE’S THE HAWKS ARE BACK!!!!!!!!! TIME TO GET OFF THE MIC AND SUIT UP SMITTY WE NEED A SPOT UP SHOOTER WHO IS COSISTENT AND CAN KNOCK DOWN SHOTS WHEN JJ IS DOUBLE TEAMED. HOLLA EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS
By Adam
November 27, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this
Ando - FWIW, I screwed up the album title too. I was in no way trying to correct you, just say I like it as well. And anyway, I agree with you most of the time.
Here’s to getting a win tonight…
By TJ
November 27, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this
All this beef on the site..c’mon y’all. Some folk just gotta learn how to bite their tongues.
Anywayz, a Varejao for Shelden/AJ would “work” although I don’t know if I like Varejao being the second highest paid player on the team. That’s the only drawback, especially since Birdman (my new nickname for Smith) and Chils get contracts soon. Playing with LeBron, he knows how to move w/o basketball, gritty defender, and while he flops a lot, he’s not soft. He doesn’t give up on a play. Woody would love him. Moves Al and Birdman to their more natural positions.
Other trade possibilities: Sixers PG Andre Miller. Veteran leadership + great tutor for Acie. Played with Carmelo, and has led the league in assists, will throw alley-oops and get the ball to teammates in their hotspots.
Luke Ridnour Between Delonte West and Earl Watson, the PG spot is wrapped up in Seattle. Getting no playing time? Come to Atlanta.
Darryl Watkins Young 6’11” athletic guy currently on the Kings. We probably don’t have to give up too much to get him, but he’s big and he can get up and down the floor like we want to.
Jason/Jarron Collins 7’0” twins not getting much playing time where they are. I don’t think they match our pace specifically, but they are bangers/bruisers, which we could use.
That is all for now. I am a rare Hawks fan. Nowhere to go but up. Now lets jump over these not-raging Bulls!
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this
Oh no Smitty hit that 3…i hope he dont fall in love
By mykhalc
November 27, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this
JUST as i predicted, HORFORD takes the startin’ 5 spot back from ZAZA.
said LUE and ZAZA need to be on the court at the same time…slow ball.
BRILLANT!!! it ain’t brain surgery WOODSON!! tho for you it might be!!!
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this
Can someone rebound. And thank you stuper star Joe for 2 fouls early
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this
Hawks are getting bad calls again (like the childress travel)
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this
These officials suck big time
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this
MYKHALC: Im at it again…lol. I can take the L but not to this team bro.
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this
Can we score just one basket oh lord. Am i asking for too much.
By Ken Strickland
November 27, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this
The Bulls are taking advantage of our PG situation by pressuring our guards. ALaw would have a field day penetrating against this DEF. This is why I think we need to upgrade PG position with another penetrator.
By mykhalc
November 27, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
H-4-L, we need ACIE back baaaaadddd!!!! the offense stinks!! but it usually does!!LOL
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this
Nice and 1 Chills
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah im listening online and you’re right it stinks.
By HB Ando
November 27, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
Wow, this is an epic battle, of ignominious proportions.
As I type, the score is 21-21, half-way through the 2nd quarter.
Some quick math projects regulation ending in a tie, at 56-56.
A check on Google finds that he all-time lowest combined score, for an NBA game, is 119. We’re on pace for 112.
So much to be proud of here.
Pathetic……
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this
OH YEAH Hinrich in foul trouble…ill take it
By mykhalc
November 27, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this
ZAZA, LUE and AJ…not much there at all!!!!!! you can’t tell me we can’t find D-league players better. man, we need to sign Jamaal Tatum for a 10 day for some offense. oh yeah, WOODSON wouldn’t play him!!! ok scratch that!!!
By mykhalc
November 27, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
so how many days did they have to prepare for a less than 40 point half???? it’s the altered-world GSW vs PHO game from last nite!!
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
These are our atlanta hawks (yawn)…getting their lunch handed to them by a 2-win team
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this
Why do JS insist on shooting 3s….Why is he even out there….WOODSON YOU SUCK!!
By mykhalc
November 27, 2007 9:44 PM | Link to this
where’s my remote??? ahh let’s see NBALP has… aaahhhh man i coulda been watchin’ CLE vs BOS. CLE in OT!!!
By Tap Daddy
November 27, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this
Astro Joe thanks for the insight…Yeah, that’s a little to much for Varejao…..I’d rather us keep that money and resign those guys you mentioned.
By Christy Love
November 27, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this
Chris - get a new job honey and find a new hobby; you came to the wrong place for an intervention. :)
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this
We are playing like jokes right now….everyone of them….geez…this is not a playoff team at all
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this
JJ if ur worth anything at all you do not let ur team lose a game like this.
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this
JJ if ur worth anything at all you do not let ur team lose a game like this. Every game in reality you’re not going to win if ur down by double digits but what do i know….JJ (CAPTAIN) show some heart and grit, do something
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this
JJ if ur worth anything at all you do not let ur team lose a game like this. Every game in reality you’re not going to win if ur down by double digits but what do i know….JJ (CAPTAIN) show some heart and grit, do something
By mykhalc
November 27, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
H-4-L, can you say ‘frauelein time’!!!!LOL
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this
JOSH SMITH what the hell…its call shot selection
By JJ
November 27, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this
I told you all josh smith just keeps shooting for some reason of course he is not the only problem but a big part of it. he can block but he is a sh*t sandwhich when it comes to shooting.
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this
U KNOW WHAT F THE HAWKS RIGHT NOW….15 POINTS…AFTER LEADING BY 9….GEEZ
By Ken Strickland
November 27, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this
On an earlier blog I mentioned how the Hawks needed to run a half court OFF simular to the one Detroit uses for Hamilton. This would be especially effective during times when the uptempo OFF isn’t clicking.
During the 1st qtr of this gm, Chicago was missing everything. They were completely out of sinc. They changed the entire gm in their favor when they started using a series of screens to free LDang in the lane. This forced the Hawks DEF to collapse. As a result, their outside shooters are now able to take open uncontested jump shots.
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this
NO ONE IS REBOUNDING….OUR ONLY REBOUNDER IS HORFORD AND HE IS ON THE BENCH….WE ARE GETTING KILLED ON THE BOARDS….JS JUST MISS 2 FTS…THESE GUYS ARE KILLING ME
By MJ3
November 27, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this
If I see Smooth throw up one more f*** brick when there’s another Hawk wide open and less than 10 feet away, I’m gonna scream.
And he just missed two free throws.
You take away his shots, and the Hawks are 41% from the floor right now. With his shots, they’re 31%. Please, trade the fool.
By MJ3
November 27, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this
If I see Smooth throw up one more f*** brick when there’s another Hawk wide open and less than 10 feet away, I’m gonna scream.
And he just missed two free throws.
You take away his shots, and the Hawks are 41% from the floor right now. With his shots, they’re 31%. Please, trade the fool.
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this
What kind of line up is this…MW just took zaza out wallace miss the ft not only did thomas get the board he also scored…this is a L if u ask me…we are playing like a*….pure a*…
By HB Ando
November 27, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this
This Varejao talk is silly. Last time I checked, he’s a power forward. I’ve asked this before, but at the risk of repeating myself, I ask, “how many forwards does it take to screw a franchise into permanent futility?”.
Truth of the matter is that he isn’t better, nor does he project to be, than Al Horford. So why would we bring him here, given his redundant role, AND, his contract demands?
We need a CENTER.
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this
trading baskets down by 17 is always great strategy
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this
down 19 going in the third….ballin
By Tiger Woo
November 27, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this
Marvin Williams is sleep-walking tonight. 1 for 5 from the field. Isn’t he supposed to be the 2nd option?
By randy
November 27, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this
WOODY (during Chicago game): HEY GREAT D!!! We held the mighty Bulls to just 34 points in the first half. They are soooo lucky we are losing! Shellhead “The Landlord Statue” looks awesome gaurding with tenacity that 2x2 square he fevershly laid claim to early. Shellhead always says, The rebound and shots will come to me, i come to noone! Like that attitude!
Marvin wave to us, I can’t seem to find you out there. OH there is Josh Smith, amazing how often he is open at the top of the arc!! When will these dumb teams learn not to leave a wide open Josh Smith in 3 point land!!! Don’t worry Josh, next time it will fall for ya.
What’s a matter Joe, if you can’t put up 50 points every game I don’t know why we have you out there. Don’t worry TLue and AJ, just cuz you got more turnovers than assists, don’t matter, you are AllStars I see it, I do.
Damn don’t understand how we are down by 20 now. We gotta work on that D boys!!!
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:34 PM | Link to this
Oh wow he put in SS is it too late or what…im pretty sure it is
By hawks-4-life
November 27, 2007 10:39 PM | Link to this
Like i said i can take a L but to a 2 win team…screw this im out…im going back to bed its 430 and i work 630 to 5…these guys aint worth my dam time….they need to get a clue all of em….from coach to bum….i dont know how we have 5 wins so far but judging from tonights performance it all seems like luck….unbelieveable….down twenty…like i say what have u done for me lately and they aint done shhhhh in years
By randy
November 27, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this
WHAT THE HELL WOODY??? Putting in The Sniper, what are you doing trying to score points or something??? WHAT 60 POINTS AFTER 4 QUARTER AIN’T ENOUGH FOR YOU??? GREEDY…
By doc
November 27, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this
well surprise surprise, the bulls are kicking our @$$e$. sound familiar? combination of quick guards and power underneath with 23 offensive rebounds and a 20 rebound differential.
i am about ready to give it up to samuel’s idea of getting wallace for jj if we could get rid of lue and get duhon. if we only had roy then jj would be truly expendable. instead we have a undersized inactive 6 ft 9 center sitting on the bench watching a massacre under the boards.
broken atlanta spirit, do you see what we see?
By randy
November 27, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this
FIRE WOODY AND BILLY!!
By randy
November 27, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this
What we need is Ben Wallace??? HAHA, DID YOU NOTICE THEY ONLY SCORED 70 POINTS TONIGHT?!?! So you Einsteins think getting rid of our only shooter for a guy that can’t shoot at all when he is more that 1 foot away from the basket is going to help!!! haha. What they need is a damn coach that understands the game and a general manager that can draft worth $HIT. Oh yea I forgot we don’t have a draft pick for next 2 years…Well atleast BK made up for it by adding such quality veterans like Speedy, AJ, Lorenzen and who can forget drafting Shellhead “The Landlord Statue”? BRILLIANT!
By doc
November 27, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this
randy, some very funny commentary there.
starting forwards were 3 for 19 tonight, not sure if marvin is not losing his early season surge as he had been very steady early on and i dont sense it happening right now. i think id rather see marvin going 2 for 14 and smith going 1 for 5 as it would indicate a sensibility about it. yeah randy funny how teams allow j slop to have that shot beyond the arc. he is so good he will get that shot all game and he doesnt even have to work to get open.
numbers are about the same but dominque’s critique somehow suggests how horford is so much more ready for the nba and this with yi getting 20% less time on the court. that is just more hawk propaganda. like horford though he doesnt have much offense which hurts when the forwards bomb out or flame out the way they did tonight.
By HB Ando
November 27, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this
Randy, Clyde just filed a viable lawsuit, for trademark infringement. But, I must admit, we may have our own version of ‘V for Vendetta’ beginning here.
Unless my memory just short circuited, in the last 4 minutes (which is completely possible), I just heard Dominique call Horford a “utility guy”. If he feels that way about the skills of Horford, I’d sure like to hear his honest assessment of Shelden……….
I traded texts with Ray, this morning, and I told him that I thought the imploding Bulls might just happen to “wake up” tonight, against the Hawks.
Bulls and Heat both win tonight. They’re both going to figure it out. Sixers won, too. Where does that leave this team?
I don’t see a winner here (but I did see Woody laughing, when Josh got a technical foul, and kept barking at the referee, while neither the coaching staff or his teammates tried to pull aside). Great, we’re down 14, Josh gets a technical, which makes the margin 15, and Woody is chuckling, and Josh is still unrestrained, as he continues to argue with the ref. That’s the kind of leadership we need.
By doc
November 27, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this
woody, got it right tonight, as i was thinking it was ugly that is exactly what he said. he also says the offense was atrocious. you got to defend and rebound, hmm where have we heard that before.
no randy not too serious about sending jj off but somehow these guys have to figure how they can put a body on someone and box out. technique 101 that is a course wallace might be able to teach these guys. it also is about being disciplined and having some guards out front to make some stops on penetration, when they dont interior defense breaks down as well as giving up the offensive rebound.
By HB Ando
November 28, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this
doc, I know you’re not suggesting that the lack of perimeter defense, and the shutting down of dribble drive penetration, is a matter of effort or coaching, rather than limited personnel.
Discipline doesn’t make up for being outmatched, every night, at the point. Getting comparably talented PG’s does. We have a rookie, 3 career back ups, and a 6’1 shooting guard, masquerading as a 5th team point.
Our PG debacle rests squarely on the shoulders of Billy. No need to rehash. I can blame Woody for many things, but he can’t change the fact that we’re clearly outmatched, at the one, every single night, for 82 games a year. Toronto’s back up is twice as good as any PG we have. And he’s a guy some folks here asked for a couple of years ago, when it wasn’t as obvious as it is now. He’s restricted this summer. How about the Hawks make him an offer he can’t refuse, and then work out a sign and trade that makes both teams happy (they’re swing situation, and rebounding, continue to be shaky).
How about both teams sign Calderon and Childress, for similar money, and swap ‘em out? Hell, I’ll throw in Shelden (odd how he’s an easy throw in for any possible deal we suggest).
I honestly believe that they would be interested in either Shelden or Zaza. I’m not smart enough to know what the optimal deal would be. But I know that the rotation of Bosh, Bargnani and Rasho leaves much to be desired, from a rebounding standpoint. So I can imagine that we could make a compelling offer, of an excess, rebounding PF/C, for Calderon, despite their public assertions that they love having both Ford and Calderon.
Truth is that Calderon is too good to continue to settle for a back up’s role. He knows it, and Toronto knows it. And they can’t pay what another team would pay to make him a starter (which may not be too dissimilar to what we face with Childress, this summer).
A combo of a re-signed Childress, and Shelden, for a term-sheet signed Calderon? Mid-level for Chills, and the rookie contract of Shelden, for $8-9 million, per, for Calderon? I’d do it in a heart beat.
Calderon would immediately be a top-5 assist guy, in this league. He’s currently averaging 7.3 dimes, in 24 minutes. And he last 4 games, with Ford out, he’s averaging 12.5 and 10.25.
It’s sick to think of what he could do with JJ, Josh and/or Marvin, and a one-year-older Horford.
If Speedy was worth $6 million a year, what is Calderon worth?
By Lil E
November 28, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this
It seems like Josh Smith might be trying a little bit too hard to get that big contract he wants.
By reese
November 28, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this
What good does it do for Marvin and Childress to shoot 57% in this game and only take 7 shots apiece. I’ll continue to harp on these two until they are taking more shots than Josh Smith. But I guess when your hiding along the baseline and your not as big or strong as the other team, you will be limited with your shot attempts. We only took 68 shots in this game.
The hawks run a 3 on 1 fast break with Childress on left wing, AJ in the middle and JJ on the right wing. JJ slows down and doesn’t continue to run the break. AJ throws a bounce pass to childress and he dunks over the defender. My only issue with that play is that JJ stopped running on the fast break. The ref could have called an offensive foul on childress because the defender saw JJ stop running and cheated over toward childress. If Childress missed the shot, JJ wouldn’t be in position for an offensive rebound. If Childress wanted to Pass, he didn’t have anyone to pass to.
Rebounds/Loose balls from blocks: If Marvin and Childress are getting out hustled by players who are their own size, then what good does it do to have them out there. Tyrus Thomas and Deng out leap them. Wallace out muscles them. Gordon and Nocioni out hustle them. Noah was just taller than them.
The problem is where does woodson go for help. The lack of athleticism of Zaza and Shelden really stand out in games like this. They can’t jump and move too slow to boxout anybody. Mario West has hustle but doesn’t have any talent. JJ is too busy trying to pace himself and doesn’t even try to rebound in most games. He had 1 rebound. Tlue is too slow, to short and unathletic to help on the boards. AJ is too busy telling everyone else what they should be doing. Solomon is so skinny that woodson doesn’t even see him on the bench. Hint solomon, move closer to the coach so that he can see you.
Has woodson used a lineup that had JS at the 3, AH at the 4 and either zaza or solomon at the 5. Would it hurt to try it some time. Then you could put JJ and Salim or lue in as the guards.
But if there is a bright side, we did win 2 of 3 on the road.
By Trackboy1
November 28, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this
Royal Iveys putting in decent minutes for the Bucks. And he plays defense.
A PG rotation of Acie, Tyrone & Ivey would have sounded a whole lot better of one that includes Johnson and Claxton.
By robdawg06
November 28, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this
Yahoo Headline : Bulls End 4-Game Skid Beat Hawks 90-78
This team is an embarassment to Atlanta and the state of Ga. Go Hawks ? Yeah, like go away forever ! New coach and new players please… What will the excuse for losing be this year ? I recall Woodson saying “No excuses this year”.
By robdawg06
November 28, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this
Not to add to the race issue but its true that the best teams in the NBA had/have diversity. The Celtics had 3 blacks and 2 whites (Bird & McHale). The Lakers had 4 and 1 (Rambis),the Pistons had 4-1 (Laimbeer),the Suns had 4-1 (Nash),the Spurs have 4-1 if you count Ginobili as white. This world is a much greater place with everyone working together no matter the race.
By robdawg06
November 28, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this
Claxton should be cut tomorrow.
By robdawg06
November 28, 2007 12:39 AM | Link to this
I think a 4th definition of “Speedy” should be added to the dictionary :
speedy : one who can’t shoot or stay healthy.
By mykhalc
November 28, 2007 12:44 AM | Link to this
one SURE THING about ATL teams…opposin’ teams can find a cure-all when they play us, no doubt!!!
ZAZA, AJ, LUE…useless!!!!
By Clyde
November 28, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this
I want to ask everyone on this blog, even Sekou, a question. When can you say enough is enough? This team is running in circles. We’ve been doing this for three years now. Its time for a change.
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By mykhalc
November 28, 2007 1:35 AM | Link to this
this is sad…
the players worth keepin’ (whether for the roster or as trade)…ACIE, HORFORD, JJ, JS, MW, JC
not worth it…SPEEDY, LUE, AJ, ZAZA, SHELDEN, LWRIGHT
questionable…MARIO WEST, SALIM, SOLO
all the ‘not worth it’ can EASILY be replaced by better or even just more servicable players, no doubt!!
40% of the roster and the coach JUST AIN’T HAPPENIN’!!! 40%!!!!! what kinda sh$t is that????
the team has no will to be good, no heart and no identity!!!
WOODSON’s really gotta go!!!! he brings limited coachin’ skills and he can get nothin’ from this team !!! they had how many days to prepare for the CHI game and they flat out SUCKED!!! it was an embarrasment!!!
if i were ACIE and HORFORD i’d ask if i could re-enroll back in school for another year and come out in another draft…one where the HAWKS don’t have any picks!!!!!geeessshhhhh
By smartguy
November 28, 2007 1:39 AM | Link to this
I’ve had enough.
Woody says: “And that’s on me. I’m very disappointed in how we played on offense. We were just in too much of hurry — one pass and a shot. That’s not the way you win on the road in this league.”“ Well, maybe he’s not as stupid as he looks sometimes. Now only if he could figure out how to actually do something about what he observes.
By Najeh Davenpoop
November 28, 2007 1:41 AM | Link to this
How much longer do Salim Stoudamire and Al Horford have to outplay their veteran counterparts until Mike Woodson plays them more?
If Salim had played half of Anthony Johnson’s minutes in the first half I guarantee the Hawks wouldn’t have had a 25% shooting percentage at halftime. Considering that Horford is the team’s only consistent rebounder inside, there’s no reason why Zaza should have played so much in the first half. The Bulls played horribly in the first half — if Woodson had a brain the Hawks would have been leading by 10-15 at halftime and would have been able to withstand the Bulls’ 3rd quarter rally.
I have never been a huge Salim fan, but it’s pretty obvious now that as long as Acie Law is out he is the team’s best offensive option at PG. He should definitely be getting more than 10 minutes, especially on nights that the Hawks struggle so bad on offense. And for God’s sake, please nail Zaza to the bench.
By mykhalc
November 28, 2007 2:13 AM | Link to this
HORFORD keep hittin’ the glass big guy!! don’t let WOODSON ruin your game or desire!!!
ACIE, your rehab assignment…cover your eyes and ears!! DO NOT LOOK AT THE TEAM’S PLAY NOR LISTEN TO WOODSON’S COACHIN’!!!TRUST ME, IT WILL MAKE YOU DELAY YOUR RETURN!!!! and to be honest young cat, you gotta suffer with the rest of us!!!! tho i KNOW you will bring necessary relief, NOTHIN’ can save us from WOODSON!!!!
By cp
November 28, 2007 2:13 AM | Link to this
Purely pathetic tonight. At this point firing Woodson and Knight could not make the situation worse. Clyde is right,enough is enough.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 7:36 AM | Link to this
Yes … the Hawks had a bad game vs. Chicago - but it’s only one game. Unfortunately, there will be games like this with a young squad. No need to totally panic - let’s see if they can bounce back vs. Milwaukee tonight and New Orleans Friday at home.
By JJ
November 28, 2007 7:56 AM | Link to this
we need to trade josh smith b4 teams figure he sucks at offense.I use to be one of the guys who wanted to keep him around not anymore.
By Jonj
November 28, 2007 8:06 AM | Link to this
Sekou I love your reports and i usually agree with most of the things you say, but I have never heard you speak about firing Woodson. He is wasting the talent on this team. His rotation is horrible and his substitution methods are even worse. He has no offensive set that is correct for this athletic hawks system. I think the players no longer listen to him or he just doesn’t motivate them to perform i think he might demotivate them from the performances i have seen recently.
I won’t lie and say he didn’t make Salim Stoudamire play better for example, but making such a talented to kid work so hard to fit for your system and then not playing him until it is to late when he could provided so much more earlier the later goes for Mario West as well.
I can’t take it and i don’t want the Hawks to have to go on a big loosing streak in order for him to be fired. He just simply needs to step down. I mean replace him with Fitzdale after what happened to the assistant’s the least you can do is appoint one of them head coach and move the other one up.
Woody would work somewhere else more mature slowed down team like the pistons are Boston, but not the hawks not young athletic fiery guys that you just want to take the fire out. I mean look at Larry Brown his mentor and how he views rookies?
By JohnGTFan
November 28, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this
Tiger
No, this is not only one game. Look at their shooting percentages in their games. This is a habit. They should all be COMPLETELY ashamed of that horrible effort. They’re coming back home for a couple games…and if they have any heart and desire, they will(can) win those games. If they don’t, then we’re just looking at the same Hawks from last year. We’re all hoping they are a different Hawks team…these next home games should give us an idea.
By JohnGTFan
November 28, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this
Sekou
HOW ABOUT NOW-ISH?????
By mountain jim
November 28, 2007 8:20 AM | Link to this
I agree about trying to trade Chills for Calderon and I have seen enough out of Josh to trade him for a center.
But swapping out Woody for a coach with energy and a clue is the key.
Atlanta Spirit - where are you?
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this
JohnGTFan,
You are correct … it was a horrible effort by the Hawks last night - no denying that fact. No excuses. However, it was a relatively good road trip - they won 2 straight road games - something they haven’t done for a while.
Unfortunately, there will be nights like this in the NBA - when the shots aren’t dropping and you come up flat - it’s a long season and you aren’t going to have it every night.
That said - the good teams are the ones that are resilient and are able to bounce back and put those bad losses behind them.
We will see if the Hawks can come out tonight and on Friday and win these 2 games that they are supposed to win - in my opinion. If they win, they will be 7-8 - right in the playoff mix.
We shouldn’t draw too many definitive conclusions regarding these games early in the season. Woodson and the team deserve at least until mid-season to truly determine the state of this team.
If they are not in the playoff mix at that time, then it may be time to take a long look at the team and the coaching staff.
By Adam
November 28, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this
The Hawks have too much talent to be losing the way they are right now. I think it is time that Billy Knight seriously consider finding a new coach and now. A new coach got the Thrasers jump started to something potential very good this year and I think the same could happen with the Hawks this year. The point guard position is still horrible and not getting any better but a new coach might be able to work around that without missing a beat.
I remember seeing plenty of other teams that just had a point guard that was counted on to be a good defensive player and ran the offense through someone else. I believe the Hawks should be doing that until Acie Law gets a better handle on the NBA.
The Hawks should be 2 games over 500 ball right now and not 3 games under. The early schedule was brutal but recently they have been playing teams that they should be blowing out. This team has the make up to be not only a playoff team but a 3 or 4 seed team in the very weak East.
By Adam
November 28, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this
The Hawks have too much talent to be losing the way they are right now. I think it is time that Billy Knight seriously consider finding a new coach and now. A new coach got the Thrasers jump started to something potential very good this year and I think the same could happen with the Hawks this year. The point guard position is still horrible and not getting any better but a new coach might be able to work around that without missing a beat.
I remember seeing plenty of other teams that just had a point guard that was counted on to be a good defensive player and ran the offense through someone else. I believe the Hawks should be doing that until Acie Law gets a better handle on the NBA.
The Hawks should be 2 games over 500 ball right now and not 3 games under. The early schedule was brutal but recently they have been playing teams that they should be blowing out. This team has the make up to be not only a playoff team but a 3 or 4 seed team in the very weak East.
By doc
November 28, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this
t.w. the last few games have been awful when it comes to offense and playing as a unit. we had short bursts against the heat and the t’wolves to stave off maybe the inevitable. this team has shown NOTHING that suggests it has matured nor it can be consistent in anything it does. it looks like it is still men against boys.
woody said it well awful and atrocious; that is the trend even though two wins were toughed out. i take it back, the ONLY consistent thing this team has done recently is to fall behind by twenty or more and try to rally back. face it some of the 12 point losses have really been worse than that. just plain bad.
By roan st
November 28, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this
I have compiled a short list of young centers that are currently getting little to no playing time for their respective squads. Each of these players come from teams that have other options at the position and might be willing to deal. Here is the list: earl barron, randolph morris, patrick o’bryant, and darryl watkins. We wouldn’t have to do anything drastic like trading josh smith for one of these guys. All are young and have some potential but are buried on the bench and can’t develop without playing time. I think any would be worth a gamble because we wouldn’t have to give up to much to get one. If they flop then all we can say is nothing ventured nothing gained, right?
Without some drastic changes this team is just about on par with last years squad. If the staus quo continues we will win about 30-35 games this season and will miss the playoffs. And to make matters worse we will sit on the sidelines during next years draft to watch the suns take our lottery pick. We need a coaching change and at the very least some kind of trade to try and balance out this roster. If not we will continue to be the same ole sorry hawks.
By JohnGTFan
November 28, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this
People outside the ATL do not realize how hard it is being a fan in ATL. Look at the familiar trends lately. Hawks have no PG/leader, GT has no PG/leader…FAlcons have no QB/leader, GT has no QB/leader….yuck!!!! Just in case anyone brings it up…Vick was neither.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this
Adam,
The East may be relatively weak compared to the West, but to say the Hawks are a 3 or 4 seed may be stretching it a bit.
Eastern teams clearly better than Hawks:
Celtics Cavaliers Pistons Magic
Teams on the same level as Hawks (or maybe slightly better):
Wizards Nets Raptors
Teams underachieving so far, but are still dangerous:
Chicago Miami
Making the playoffs will not be easy for the Hawks. On paper, they have talent, but so do the other teams.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
Doc,
I agree - the Hawks have been really inconsistent of late and have fallen behind early in games. Against good teams like the Spurs, it’s very difficult to make up ground and get back into games.
The Hawks actually got off to a good start against Chicaago - then they stopped making shots and got out-hustled the rest of the way.
Hopefully, when Acie Law comes back, he will provide a spark and give the point guard position some needed consistency.
By smartguy
November 28, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this
HEY HEY! HO HO! THAT DA WOODY HAS GOT TO GO!
HEY HEY! HO HO! THAT DA WOODY HAS GOT TO GO!
By travis
November 28, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this
HOW ABOUT DONE-ISH? I am done with the Hawks until they fire Woody. They are awful, Seattle was 1-8 came in here and got a win, Wizards were 0-5 came in here and got a win, Chicago was 2-10 and got a win against the Hawks. Minnesota had them by 20pts, the Hawks got lucky on that one. These guys are awful. They will lose tonight and Friday, mark my word!!!
This is coming from a season ticket holder, sect. 217 r A. I need Woody gone. He is killing the spirit of the team.
By Kenneth Boswell
November 28, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
As a knowledgable basketball fan, it is becomming plain to see that the key problem of these Hawks is in the area of head coach. This guy continually fails to have his team prepared to play and is terrible at making in-game adjustments. If the starters are not sticking to the game plan, why do he keep them in the game instead of giving the beach players a shot. He does not have enough confidence in his bench . The team plays to the level of the competition which again points to game preparation. I think Mike woodson is a nice assistant, but not ready for head coach.These young guys need a more experienced and disciplined coach who will demand excellence game in game out.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this
JohnGTFan,
Let’s see what Acie Law can do when he returns from injury - he may be the point guard of the future for the Hawks.
By the way, a team leader does not necessarily have to be a point guard. Look at Cleveland - LeBron James is the leader. Look at the great Bulls teams - Michael Jordan was the leader - the point guard’s role was to get open for the spot up jump shot.
Finaly, I know this isn’t a Falcons blog, but Michael Vick was definitely the leader of the Falcons and the team thought he was as well. That’s why they traded Schaub and brought in a new coach to work with Vick.
By hawks-4-life
November 28, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this
The real sad thing is even though we lost and im real p** ill be at it again tonight to support the team. Call it being a fan or just blind ignorance. I need a hobby
By JohnGTFan
November 28, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
I’m not saying the PG or a QB has to be a leader…and no, Vick was not.
I also am looking forward to Acie coming back. I am a huge fan of his and I believe he will run this team well. Before the draft I listened to all the die-hard Conley fans as I was preaching for Acie…what’s Conley done????
But anyway, the Hawks have no real leader. It SHOULD be JJ…but I just don’t see it yet. Even though he’s a rookie…I’d love to see Horford step up and take charge like Acie did in the exhibition season. He is truly the only one I’ve seen giving absolutely everything night in and night out.
By travis
November 28, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
HOW ABOUT DONE-ISH? I am done with the Hawks until they fire Woody. They are awful, Seattle was 1-8 came in here and got a win, Wizards were 0-5 came in here and got a win, Chicago was 2-10 and got a win against the Hawks. Minnesota had them by 20pts, the Hawks got lucky on that one. These guys are awful. They will lose tonight and Friday, mark my word!!!
This is coming from a season ticket holder, sect. 217 r A. I need Woody gone. He is killing the spirit of the team.
By Astro Joe
November 28, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
Ando, don’t you think TJ Ford is a little too injury prone for the Raptors to trade away Calderon?
If Miami’s season continues to fade away, I’d love to see Jason Williams join our crew. He certainly can push the ball and he will create tons of easy shots for our offensive weapons. I recall how well Law played in the game he was injured, so I am still hopeful that he will have a fast learning curve.
Anyone else remember how well Salim played against Seattle? I truly do not understand why Woody won’t let him get major minutes at PG, especially when our offense is struggling.
Another bad match-up tonight against Milwaukee.
By hawks-4-life
November 28, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this
ANYONE KNOW WHEN LAW IS GOING TO BE BACK
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
Vick had his flaws, but he definitely led the team as far as he could. Many of the losses were due to defensive breakdowns, poor blocking, etc. The team is flawed and has trouble generating offense - even more so without Vick this year. But hey, we can agree to disagree on the Vick issue.
Unfortunately, Conley has been hurt and even when healthy, he wasn’t starting. I think he will end up having a good future in the NBA.
I believe Joe Johnson is the pseudo leader of the Hawks - but some nights he doesn’t appear to be.
By salinsa
November 28, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this
The last couple of years I’ve been willing to give Woodson the benefit of the doubt because the roster was way too young to win on a consistent basis. But there’s no excuse this year. While I’m not expecting the team to be a contender in the East, I do expect the team to be a .500 team but they are definitely not playing like one.
The main thing is what happened to all the running we heard about throughour training camp. This team half court offense consists of a player going one on one and that’s not a recipe for success with this team. We should be running but we aren’t. As a result, this has to fal on the coach. I don’t think he should be fired just yeat but if there’s not a vast improvement within the next 6 weeks, then I think I move has to be made
By I.MUS WRITE
November 28, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
Thanks Chris,do us all a favor and dont post here anymore.I mean you’ve been here a hot minute and regulars are already dumping on you……. with that said- deuces bro.
I’ve watched all the games this year but 2,and im beginning to think the problem isnt Woody. The players just look uninspired out there. This team honestly doesnt compete for the whole 48minutes- this could be partially Woody’s fault…. but I dont think its all on him you have to hold the players responsible at some point(wheres the pride).
I saw the Toronto and chicago game on sunday,and Calderon is the truth. I would definitely trade Chills for this guy. He is a really solid point. Calderon is excellent at distributing and scoring-totally picked Chicago apart.
CHILLZ/Sheldon/Aj * Calderon/Delfino
Calderon would easily become the point we need to make this team go,while giving AC time to develop.
If there is’nt a trade for a pg then Woody u have to let AC run the show-everyone else is below average. Im sure Woody was limiting AC’s shot attempts which is why he looked uncomfortable taking his shot. If we can get a center I think Randolph Morris is worth a shot(he’s cheap)
Nobody deserves to be gun down in their home. My prayers go out to you and your family
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
I’d take Royal Ivey over Anthony Johnson - without a doubt.
Nice article on Royal Ivey:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=690781
By HB Ando
November 28, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
Joe, I DO believe that the Raps preference would be to keep Calderon. But Calderon is a restricted free agent this summer. And, as is possible with Josh Childress, if someone else (and there will be more teams projecting Calderon this way than Josh) sees him as a starter, then the offer sheet he gets will reflect that market price. Are you suggesting that if someone offers Calderon “Mo Williams” money, that the Raps will match, for a back up?
Doubtful. I think the Raps view losing Calderon as a very realistic possibility. Guys who are good enough to start in this league will find their way to that opportunity. With very few teams having significant cap space, a sign-and-trade for Calderon is very realistic. So what would the Raps want to make that deal with Atlanta? Rebounding, and a replacement back up PG. Sounds like Shelden or Zaza. Now whether they would want one of our back up PG’s (I wouldn’t) is hard to project. But young Calangelo is pretty good at going out and finding players, so that doesn’t have to be a hang up.
Look, if Calderon wants to turn down a starter-sized offer, and re-sign as a back up to Ford, more power to him. But I seriously doubt that’s the case. And every game he starts, it’s more apparent to everyone in the league, that he’s one of the best “true” points in the league.
Mark my words, someone will pull a sign-and-trade for Calderon this summer. Why not us?
By hawks-4-life
November 28, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
What i want for christmas
1-better point guard play 2-JS to play closer to the rim and further away from the 3 pt line. 3-MW to remain aggressive like he started the season 4-Woodson read coaching 101 for dummies 5-Woodson learn the incredibly hard task of subbing 6-team refrain from injury 7-MOST OF ALL I WISH JJ WOULD STEP UP AND BE A DAMM LEADER….
By I.MUS WRITE
November 28, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
Salim has to get minutes -period!!!! I would rather see Salim shoot the rock over J smith going 2 for 12…. yeah I know he had 6 blocks and 8 boards… but 2 for 12 thats the same shooting % as 3 of the last 4 games. How many years is it going to take before Smoove can shoot the rock more consistently or is this just a pipe dream. Love dude’s D but we need more.
By terrell barron
November 28, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this
With Acie hurt, Salim should be starting at the point. At least we would have another scoring threat on the floor besides JJ. What is it with Woody and his love for veterans? Anthony Johnson has always been a backup. You cant change a ho into a housewife! Give Salim a chance tonight. One more thing, Al, you better outshine Yi tonight. You guys are playing for ROY(runner-up). LOL
By hocker
November 28, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
Getting murdered by the horrible Bulls takes equal parts of incompetent coaching, overrated talent, and no heart. The Hawks have a perfect blend of all three.
By HB Ando
November 28, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
Roan, almost a month ago, I said we should actively seek out O’Bryant. The Warriors declined his team option for next year, making him an unrestricted free agent this summer. Clearly he doesn’t fit in Nellie’s system, and I’ve read enough quotes on the issue to know he’s fine with moving on to a better fit.
So the question is, do you wait until summer, when he can be had for a solid contract offer (and it won’t have to be very much), or do you offer something like a Solomon Jones (remember, the Warriors expect to get nothing for him, due to his unrestricted status)? I can see Nellie being intrigued by an athletic shot blocker, who can get up and down the floor, in a system like Nellie’s.
As with the Calderon case, and many other similar player discussions, over the past three years, I’d just like to see Billy do SOMETHING that is both proactive, and marginally clever.
I, however, have learned not to hold my breath, as the track record for Billy making any such smart moves is essentially non-existent.
By Astro Joe
November 28, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this
Ando, I could see Raps sticking with Calderon and dumping Ford. If Acie doesn’t look like a guy worthy of getting 30 minutes a game next year, there will be a few options (if we have money to spend). But will we actually spend $6M/year on Calderon with Speedy’s deal still on the books (and Law)? Doubtful.
By terrell barron
November 28, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
Fire Woody, hire Mark Jackson.
By JohnGTFan
November 28, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this
salinsa Not to say you are wrong, but I don’t think there is anyway BK can give Woodson another 6 weeks. I don’t believe he deserves another 6 games. But I have a feeling BK will wait AT LEAST until January, which will probably be too late.
Tonight is not a good matchup with Milwaukee. Let’s all be honest…JJ isn’t the greatest defender in the world, so expect Redd to have a big game.
By Tap Daddy
November 28, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
I’ve been calling for Woodson to experiment with starting JJ and Salim together for almost 2 yrs now…that might not be the best defensive lineup but i guarantee we would be getting more offensively, especially in a game like last night where points were so hard to come by.
My thing is who says your point guard is required to be some major playmaker? We need a coach that thinks outside the box…Just look at Phil Jackson over the years and look at the guys that have played point for him in his triangle system. From BJ Armstrong, to Steve Kerr, to Jim Paxson to Derek Fisher..none of those guys have been “playmaking” point guards they were shooters who could space the floor giving guys like Shaq, Kobe and MJ more room to operate…Now we all know Salim has a shoot first mentality but i’m okay with that if he’s getting wide open shots off of Joe Johnson creating. (think Joe Johnson being like Lebron with Salim being like Daniel Gibson in there mainly to knock down shots) I’m not saying by no means that that backcourt will surely work but i’m tired of seeing us role out AJ or Lue and expecting us to be able to compete on a nightly basis. Every team we line up against seems to have a better PG situation than ours, how long before we experiment with the roster we have in place?
By roan st
November 28, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
Ando, your on the money regarding calderon he is gone after this year unless the raptors can somehow trade ford and resign him. I wouldn’t be suprised if some team signed him to an offer sheet in the 5yr 60 million dollar range. No way toronto can match an offer like that for a backup point. This guy will step right in wherever he winds up and become an instant star kind of like steve nash did for dallas. No doubt the raptors will be forced into a sign and trade for mr. calderon. But it won’t be involving the hawks and billy the baffon.
By Ken Strickland
November 28, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this
The coaching staff could have put a better gm plan in place. Woody should have started the gm posting JJ against their small guards instead of waiting until the 4th qtr. Also, their small guards offered a perfect opportunity to play Salim during that awful 2nd qt.
It seems every NBA coach respects what Salim can do except ours. Woody seems to think a player like Salim should be used only in times of desperation. His quickness and penetrating ability would have hurt Chicago’s pressure DEF. His OFF output would have been more effective in the 1st half. It’s always better taking steps to prevent a large lead from occurring than trying to overcome one.
When Woody saw how Chicago was killing us on the OFF boards, and seeing MWilliams disappear, he should have made an adjustment. At a point long before we fell behind big, our lineup should have been JSmith SF, AHorford PF, SJones C, SStaudamire PG and JJ SG. This lineup would have given us a better matchup inside while keeping them very honest outside.
One other observation. Our fate changed when we got their starting PG got in foul trouble. When their backup entered the gm everything changed. He actually increased the tempo and pressure on our DEF. That’s what we’re missing. We need another PG, like Speedy, that can maintain or increase the tempo. We don’t need to trade away valuable assets to acquire a big shot blocking 5. We need our outside defenders to be more consistent in keeping their assigned player out of the lane. Detroit has done quite well without having a shotblocker on the entire team.
By roan st
November 28, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this
Astro, calderon is going to get a lot more than 6 million per year. He is a future star waiting to happen and it’s no longer a secret among NBA teams. How about we offer them acie law for calderon. That way the raptors get a young point to groom and we finally get our point guard of the future who’s ready to step in and play. As far as speedy goes we can’t let his contract keep us from getting a legitimate point. Thats on billy the baffon and we should seek to file an insurance claim if he is permanently disabled. I know the braves have their players insured because insurance has helped them offset the cost of mike hampton’s contract.
By Tap Daddy
November 28, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
Ken Strickland are you forgetting about Rasheed Wallace, Tayshan Prince and even Jason Maxiell?? I agree guards have to do a better job of keeping guys out the paint but you got to have someone back there to block or change a shot.
By roan st
November 28, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
Ken, I don’t mean to pick at you but this line had me in stitches ” we need another PG, like speedy, that can maintain or increase the tempo”. LOL! Hell, I forgot what speedy claxton even looks like. Just kidding you Ken I know what you were trying to say my friend! Just couldn’t help myself.
By Tap Daddy
November 28, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
…only thing we need from Speedy is to submit his retirement paperwork, i wonder if that would free up cap room?
By Astro Joe
November 28, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
roan st., Devin Harris I think is making about $10M a year… I don’t see Calderon making more than that. $8M? Maybe. Insurance doesn’t help with the salary cap. In baseball, there is no salary cap, insurance helps the owners re-coup lost salaries due to injury. In Speedy’s case, his $6M counts against the roughly $55M salary regardless of insurance. So yes, Speedy’s current deal absolutely has an impact on future spending. I understand the frustration, but can we give Law maybe 10-15 healthy games before kicking him to the curb? Look at what he was doing in the Bobcats game before he was gang-tackled and tell me we shouldn’t give him a chance to repeat that same performance.
By Astro Joe
November 28, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this
Sekou, is it by design that Smith stays around the top of the key on most possessions? Is it by design that he is the “bail out” option when the shot clock is running down? And is anyone tracking shots to understand that having Smith 22 feet from the rim with 3 seconds left on the shot clock may not be the ideal placement of this guy?
By Ramon
November 28, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
Last night, someone said they would rather see Marvin go 2 for 14 and Smooth go 1 for 5. However, the question of WHY(?) comes up with a statement like that. If Marvin is going 2 for 14, on the floor what else is he bringing to the game to contribute? Smooth had a bad night shooting, yet he was big in other areas. If I recall, the Bulls made their run when Smooth wasn’t on the court (when Horford picked up those 2 quick fouls).
The reason Smooth takes so many shots is just as much as Marvin, Chills, and others not named JJ fault as his. Many times Smooth has to take a shot at the end of the shot clock, simply because no one else is TRYING to score (except JJ). Because of JJ and Smooth, Marvin usually gets the team worse defender 2-4 guarding him. Anyone can say Marvin doesn’t score as much because of good defense. However, if I recall TRUE scorers thrive off of matching up against a stopper, and usually prevail because of THAT mentality. I’m sorry but if Marvin isn’t going to STEP up, and TRY to lead as well, then he shouldn’t be the second option. He doesn’t even seem to have that mentality.
I have no problem with Smooth going 2 for 14, because SOMEBODY had to take the shots. I saw Smooth miss a few lay ups that he usually makes. So he didn’t really take THAT many jumpers as some say. And even one of his 3pt attempts doesn’t really count b/c it was at the end of the first half with the clock almost out (and JJ on the bench).
The thing that hurts this team the most is outside of Law, Smooth and Horford, the team has no SWAG at all. And if a team doesn’t have a swag, teams will play you totally different than other teams. So I do think that the Hawks should look for available players that do possess that.
I am officially going on board, if the Rockets would take Sheldon and AJ for Francis, GO FOR IT. Or I wonder if the Blazers would accept that for Jack.
By I.MUS WRITE
November 28, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
Last night all i saw Salim do is score the ball.Salim scored the ball nicely in limited minutes. If Woody had put the sniper in mid ways throught the 2nd quarter -maybe we could have pulled this one out. Whats the excuse tonight,AJ is Horrible and Milwaukee has smallish point guards -so there is no match up problem. This team goes through scoring droughts for extended periods of time…. Bring in the Sniper and Mario. Marvin-This is Mus talking to you: when u drive to the hole and the lane collapses pull up for a 14 ft jumper, too many times you lose the ball or get called for offensive fouls… just stop on a dime and pull up……. Dam it yall have some pride -dont let the buck beat us twice in 2 weeks.
Calderon: sign and trade sounds nice ,just get him in a hawks uniform. Speedy: The guy is finished -his salary should come off the books if he retires-“HEY CRAIG JUST DO IT- RETIRE ALREADY” ZAZA is horrible -give Shellhead his minutes-atleast Sheldon will body sumone and bang in the paint. ZAZA-flop after flop after flop-it doesnt matter if he’s cheap bench his azz -straight up VENT: Complete …. HAWKS!!!
By Khao$
November 28, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
woody’s comments in the AJC this morning says it all. He was pleased with the effort on the defensive end, but the offense was atrocious. He went on to say that it is his fault and he’d take the blame. I understand championships are won on the defensive end, but dang, you still have to score points. You still have to build your offense around the talent you’ve assembled. This guy’s lack of offensive creativity is crippling us. You wonder why JS hoists up 20 million shots, JJ and Lue dribble the ball for 22 seconds and Marvin’s jumpshooting prowess isn’t being exploited…their coach isn’t putting them in good position. He gives them no offensive direction. He’s a defensive coach to the end. Plain and simple. And their GM refuses to get them a veteran PG (who isn’t someone else’s backup) to help run the show from the floor. We can talk trades, sitting this player/that player, injuries, and free agents all day. However, until management and coaching is addressed, the same problems will exist. I’m telling you, even after Chicago crushed us yesterday, I still believe this team can compete with new leadership. The players have grown, however their coach hasn’t.
By roan st
November 28, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this
Astro, hold your horses man I’m in no way suggesting we give up on law or ” kick him to the curb”. Just saying that calderon is also young and ready to step in play immediately. We don’t have a draft pick next year and I’m sick and tired of the status quo and waiting on guys to develop. Calderon would solve our point guard issues today. And even though speedy’s contract counts against the cap, insurance would help our broke a$$ owners. There aren’t many teams in the league that don’t have a bad contract or two but that doesn’t mean they have to shut down the operation. GEEZ. What do you suggest? Don’t sign anyone or improve the team until speedy comes off the books?
By smartguy
November 28, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
IMUS, your two complaints are that we are uninspired and that the right players aren’t on the court enough. Both of those go directly to the head coach. Maybe its on the players to fire themselves up a little more, but playing time is controlled by one person, and one person only.
Salim is a no brainer to everyone but our head coach. When we are lacking for offense, Salim is the perfect move. But not for Woody, he wants to make sure the game is totally out of reach before making such a sensible move. And this is where it comes back to inspiration. If you doubt your coach is doing everything he can to help you win on the court, then how long are you going to go all out for him??
SPIRIT SUCKS! FIRE WOODY!
By roan st
November 28, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this
Ramon, I would trade shelden for a 12 pack of beer and a duffle bag of practice balls. I think doc made the comment about the trade value we could have had right now if we drafted roy. With no draft pick next year it would have been nice to have had these trade pieces: roy or jj, josh, josh, marvin. Take your pick between keeping roy or jj and we still have one of the three forwards to deal. That would have made us a major player at the trade deadline. Might have got calderon and our young center of the future. THANKS BILLY!
By randy
November 28, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
How did Anthony Johnson make the NBA…When I first seen him last year, I was like who is that fat weezly looking guy in a Hawks uniform? He is a waste of a 2nd round draft pick even if we just got another Shellhead forward.
This team needed a PG and Center for what 3-4 years now? And the best we have is a rookie PF rotating as undersized center and AJ a washup that would find it hard to make a div 1 college basketball team. Hopefully once, Acie Law gets back he can add some much needed excitement and shooting. That was a really horrendous game and boring too.
By randy
November 28, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this
I was yelling at draft night last 2006, “TAKE ROY, TAKE ROY, TAKE ROY!!”. Then, “With their 5th pick, the Atlanta Hawks select Sheldon Williams from the University of Duke”. I was prepared for those words as that was the rumor flying around but I was praying it wasn’t true till commish confirmed my fears. Then ESPN analysts slammed the Hawks for taking Shellhead, which they seen as going around #15. Sorry, I still have flashbacks to that horrible night in 2006….Nevermind.
By Ken Strickland
November 28, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
TAP DADDY, all of the Detroit players you mentioned are excellent one on one defenders. But not one of them is considered a legimate shot blocker. It is not inconceivable to consider JSmith having as many blocks as most of them combined.
ROAN ST, I was aware of the possible implications of the SPEEDY comparison when I made it. However, my post was already lengthy and I chose not to elaborate. My Speedy comparison was in refererence to his quickness, speed and penetrating ability, and nothing else believe me. While I really like ALaw, your trading him for Calderon suggestion sounds good to me.
ASTRO JOE, you’ve asked the question I’ve been thinking all week. So far JSmith is shooting terribly, but regularly parks outside the key. AHorford and Zaza have proven to be better outside shooters but go inside.
We have a deep, versatile and athletic team , including our bench. Woody needs to take better advantage of that. Against BWallace, SJones would have been a better choice than Zaza. Big Ben is too athletic for Zaza, but not for SJones. Also, Wallace’s OFF limitations would have allowed Solomon to be more of a DEF presence in the lane. Zaza was MIA on DEF and he had difficulty jumping/rebounding against Chicago’s frontline. I’m certain his ankle and lack of timing had something to do with that.
Some of our problems could be overcome with better decision making and/or better, and more stragetic, utilization of available resources.
By honest_abe
November 28, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
ken: why so negative? why are you blaming the coach? hmmmmm…
it seems as if you are finally getting around to seeing the bigger picture. congrats.
By Astro Joe
November 28, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this
Ramon, I don’t think it is fair to say that no one other than Smith and JJ are “trying to score” as much as others are not inclined to throw up a bad shot. There is clearly something wrong when you’re asking Smith to be the “bail-out” option from the top of the key. Of course, that just reiterates the critical need for a floor general so that ideally, we’re not looking for a bail-out at the end of the shot-clock.
roan st, I could propose trade options with the best of them. But given our ownership situation, I view it as mostly a waste of time. You simply can’t ignore the financial constraints that most recently led to us using both draft picks on rookies (as opposed to vets who could have provided immediate help in critical positions).
By Ramon
November 28, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this
Astro Joe, it is evident that they (without Law) are the only one TRYING to MAKE something happen. If you’re speaking of what a bad shot is or isn’t, I guarantee half of the leading perimeter scorers take ‘bad shots’. A shot is only a bad shot, if you can’t make the shot.
Marvin doesn’t necessarily move well with out be ball, and he doesn’t do a good job of trying to put himself in a better position for a shot. Majority of the times, Marvin drifts instead of coming to the action. All of these teams the Hawks are playing aren’t GREAT defensive teams. In the NBA, unless you have a dominant post player, you will be waiting all night for a ‘good shot’. MJ’s classic fadeaway over Ehlo for most would be a bad shot, because someone was there.
As we know many times, if it leads to Smooth being the bail out on 4-6 of his shot attempts (this happens every game), then others (not JJ, because he’s double teamed) aren’t doing a good job of making something happen. In a professional sport, you can’t wait for something good to open up.
You’re right the team is in need of a floor general (I still don’t understand why they weren’t interested in Brevin Knight). Yet, I’m saying if Marvin isn’t truly improving greatly, why not move him for the floor general? A good floor general (with an outside shot) can make up for Marvin’s points. And if Marvin isn’t trying to take 13-15 shot attempts a game, then what else is he out there for? I know he’s not out there for defense, assists, hustle plays, or rebounds.
I wonder would Minnesota be interested in a Childress for McCants trade. Salary cap wise it would be a great move, and McCants is a better scoring option and would be great off the bench. Not to mention he’s still in his rookie contract. I think he could thrive being with JJ. Or possibly they will take Sheldon, or AJ for him.
By Ramon
November 28, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Matter of fact they should see if the T Wolves would trade Telfair for something cheap. I think he has just as much potential as Conley does in the right system, and he’s WAY better than what Lue is giving us.
By A Thinking Fan
November 28, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Last nights Hawks’ game was disgusting except for LB James! OOPS! wrong game…
By Lil E
November 28, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
I think we, as fans, have a responsibility to the city and Hawks fans around the globe to demand Mike Woodson be fired or demoted. We do not execute an offensive gameplan, because we probably don’t have one. That could be because we have a defensive assistant from Larry Brown’s days in Detroit. It is time for the Spirit Group to give us loyal fans a veteran head coach to turn these young guys around. How much longer do they expect us to support a team that is showing little improvement and chemistry from the past 3 years ?
Fire Woodson! Go Hawks!
By Astro Joe
November 28, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
Ramon, again, shouldn’t we wait and see if we have that type of PG on our roster before making trades?
Yes, Marvin can certainly do a better job of moving without the ball and getting himself in position to receive and shoot the rock. And he should certainly have the 2nd most shot attempts on this team.
Again, I wonder why Smith is positioned at the top of the key. Is he there because of his defensive abilities (he can race back and be amongst the first to play defense to prevent a fast break)? Is Woody willing to shoot less than 25% on those bail-out shots to have his best defender ready to prevent an easy basket? Or is Smith supposed to pull out the opposing PF from the basket to make it easier for JJ (or Marvin) to drive the lane? Surely, there is some reason why a guy who shoots that poorly from that distance is routinely asked to station himself at that spot on the floor.
By travis
November 28, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
Season Tickets- $1800 Hotdog beer and chips-$25 To see Woody fired_PRICELESS!!!!!
By travis
November 28, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
The Hawks had me fooled!! The 7-1 preseason record. The team workouts before mandatory camp. The high draft picks. The only constant in all of this is Woodson. Any fool can see this. This is his last job as a head coach.
By mykhalc
November 28, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
JOE, you know i’m with you on ACIE. we WILL see that PG is NOT an issue when he returns and is given a chance to really run the team. now backup PG WILL still be an issue. but ACIE is the real deal, no doubt!!! the ONLY question is what will WOODSON allow him to be??? the player that he naturally is??? in other words, will WOODSON allow him to create and make decisions??? or will he FORCE him to run the ONE PAGE PLAYBOOK that he calls an offense???
i KNOW the players have their share of blame in ALL that goes on but it is CLEAR to me that this team shares the identity of the look that WOODSON usually carries on his face…CLUELESS!!!!!! and the only thing that will change that look and identity is for that look to no longer be on the sidelines. it really is that simple!!!!
By doc
November 28, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
ramon, i made the comment about marvin and smith and it is very logical and would be the foundation for establishing the roles on this team that we all wonder about. it is because i think smith should be shooting less and marvin should be more agressive and keep shooting even when he is off. i would also rather have smith closer to the basket for offensive rebounds which like blocks he should excel at with his quickness and leaping ability. that is one area of his game NO ONE ever compliments because it just doesnt exist. guess what?, 6 offensive rebounds mean extra possesions whereas blocks DONT always translate into our getting the ball. if fact it is probably an overrated statistic because most times it ends up out of bounds or up for grabs between the two teams. yes it would also mean smith acknowledges he doesnt have his shot that night and to figure out other ways to help the team.
shooters, which marvin is, sometimes find there stroke and should keep firing just as jj does. face it marvin is limited in what and how he can help the team, if he is in the floor and not scoring he might as well be on the bench because it is four of us against five of them. marvin HAS to grab hold of his role as does smith and smith could be a far sight better help if he is crashing boards on BOTH ends not waiting for the last fling before the clock expires, because that is what his shot resembles, a fling. maybe you can understand the rationale for my thoughts.
By HB Ando
November 28, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
I can’t figure out why every time the idea of trading a player comes up, someone chimes in with, “why are you giving up on this guy?”. Almost nobody, and I mean literally nobody, spends their whole career with the same team. So, the reality is that almost everyone on this team will be traded, at some point, or leave via free agency.
Between the “giving up” arguments and the “giving away” diatribes, folks seem to continue to confuse the idea of leveraging these players as assets, to improve the TEAM.
Look, Acie is a talent, but he DID come to the team with the question mark of whether he could become a pass-first PG, or would continue to be a ‘tweener. In other words, will he become Chauncey Billups, or Antonio Daniels (though Daniels is finally looking like a PG in Washington, since Arenas went down).
So for someone to suggest trading Acie for Calderon, isn’t a matter of “giving up” on Acie, before we’ve seen what he can do. It’s a consideration that Calderon is already showing that he is a legit, pass-first PG, RIGHT NOW. Law and Shelden for a sign-and-traded Calderon? I’d do it in a heart beat. Shelden has no place to play here, and Calderon simply leaves no question mark about the kind of play maker we’d be bringing here, whereas we simply DON’T KNOW if Acie can be that type of play maker.
Joe, I distinctly remember you harping on an impatience with waiting, year after year, for young players to develop. Now an idea is tossed into the ring, that would accelerate our rise to, well, mediocrity, most likely, but it’s the kind of logic that is consistent with your previous position.
I’ve got to agree with Roan, when he asks whether you’d prefer to let Speedy’s onerous contract be an excuse for no changes to this roster, over the coming 12-24 months.
No more excuses. We aren’t in a position to objectify whether the challenges, in making changes to this imbalanced roster, are more “can’t” or “won’t”. But either way, the fans have a legitimate gripe. And the best way to communicate that gripe is through a refusal to buy tickets.
It’s not like certain people (like, say, me) haven’t been predicting that this is exactly where we would be, over 3 years ago.
Billy Knight has made me look like Nostradamus. But I’d rather be Copperfield, and just make him disappear (well, Copperfield without the nasty rape and false imprisonment issues hanging over his head; I wouldn’t really want any part of that).
By I.MUS WRITE
November 28, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this
Okay maybe Woody is the problem (inspiration/line ups). Im just tired of beating a dead horse. Its just frustrating knowing we have good young talent, and lose winnable games. If I can see how incompetent Woody is at times,I know the ownership can see it.Deep down i know there will be no coaching change,and to make matters worse no 1st rounder…. great thats just great.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
Not to worry … the Hawks are 5-8 right now. Based on their schedule through December, it’s not unressonable that they will be 16-13 at the end of December. Not bad.
28 - vs. Milwaukee, 7:00 PM (W) 30 - vs. New Orleans, 7:30 PM (W)
December
3 - at Philadelphia, 7:00 PM (L) 4 - vs. Detroit, 7:00 PM (W) 6 - vs. Minnesota, 7:00 PM (W) 8 - vs. Memphis, 7:00 PM (W) 10 - at Orlando, 7:00 PM (L) 11 - vs. Toronto, 7:00 PM (W) 14 - at Detroit, 8:00 PM (L) 15 - vs. Charlotte, 7:00 PM (W) 17 - vs. Utah, 7:00 PM (W) 19 - vs. Miami, 7:00 PM (W) 21 - at Washington, 7:00 PM (L) 26 - vs. Indiana, 7:00 PM (W) 29 - at Dallas, 1:00 PM (L)
By doc
November 28, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this
t. w. you bangin on that pipe this early in the day? can you possibly tell me how we are going to beat the heat twice in a row or beat the jazz, beat toronto as we dont match them at all, beat detroit or indiana as if these are sure bets. come on man. do appreciate your sharing you christmas list with us.
By Ramon
November 28, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this
I wasn’t stating we should give up on Law. But I do believe having two solid PGs on the roster (Law and possibly Telfair) would give this team more of a flow. At it is now, this team does not have more than one pg who matches the wing players. With AJ and Lue as the backups, this team will never be able to consistently run the floor against most teams. So if a team like the T Wolves would actually make a deal for Telfair, I would take it in a second. Telfair isn’t the best PG, but he’s still improving and has SPEED. Not to mention, he will not get pressured like the Bulls were doing Lue and AJ last night.
Not to mention by adding another quick pg, imagine going ‘small’ with Telfair, Law, JJ, Marvin or Smooth, and Horford, and just RUNNING! The team needs a back up PG who can get reliable minutes and still keep the pace going when he enters. I know we all remember how great the Bibby and Bobby Jackson tandem used to work.
Doc, I understand what you are saying about Smooth getting more offensive boards. However, if Marvin, Chills, and others aren’t more aggressive he really doesn’t have a chance to do such a thing. Because if he and Horford stays on the block, theres no spacing at all created.
Dennis Rodman got many of his offensive boards from attacking the glass, not from being on the block. Otherwise on offensive put backs alone, Rodman would’ve averaged 10-12 pts a game from attacking the glass, as opposed to a Patrick Ewing, who get offensive boards from living on the block. Leaving yourself on the block minimizes a player quickness, and leads to a taller player having a better chance at the rebound.
All of this goes back to the rest of the team (not named JJ and Law) being more aggressive. For instance, theres no reason Marvin shouldn’t average 14 field goal attempts a game and 8-10 free throw attempts a game also. And to be honest, if you look at the Wizards, their three headed monster (Arenas, Butler, Jamison) each average over 14 shot attempts a game. Even look at Garnett, Pierce, and Allen, they’re all still getting a good number of shot attempts and neither play pg. And in turn, it ends up leading to all of them being in better one on one match-ups with out double teams coming.
If the pg would stop (in the words of many bloggers) ‘pound, pound, pound’ then they could easily get this many shot attempts a game, with JJ still averaging close to 25 pts a game (if not more). So I’m not going to say Smooth should shoot less at all, but Marvin SHOULD shoot more.
And if you look, JJ’s season 3 pt percentage is close to being as low as Smooth’s career percentage from 3 pt land. If Marvin steps up, you will see less pressure come off of Smooth and better numbers for both. Smooth WANTS to win, so sometimes he presses himself too hard. Some of the team, plays as if they don’t care rather they win or not. If that statement wasn’t true, they would be the number 1 team in HUSTLING.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this
LOL !!!
OK Doc,
Perhaps a couple of those predictions may not pan out. I will make some adjustments:
I really think they can defeat Toronto, Indiana, and possibly Detroit and/or Utah at home. Let’s add the Philly game to the win column and shift the Miami game and Detroit home game to the loss column.
New prediction - 15-14 at the end of December - still not bad and not unreasonable.
By THE Hawks Fan
November 28, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this
I hope Acie plays tonight. He will still need a week to get his wind back though. This team goes as Josh goes. I think he is really trying to play within the game unlike the start of the year. Just pleassse, Get under the GOAL! Lue may not play and AJ is hurting. Salim has what seems to be a naggin limp. Our perimeter D has to be ON tonight. MO Willimas is hurt but will play. We need to slow domn Charlie V too. Lets GOOOO HAWKS!!!!!
By roan st
November 28, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this
Tiger woo, this is a 30-35 win team and all the regulars who have followed the hawks religiously the last few years knows it. Every time there is the slightest glimmer of hope it’s followed by two steps backward. Get used to it until there are some major changes underway. 16-13 at the end of december is just a fantasy my friend. 10-19 by the end of december would be more likely for this squad.
By Astro Joe
November 28, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this
Ando, year-after-year impatience is one thing. But goodness, can we give dude a few weeks? I’m a business man by trade and nature. If I can potentially have a comparable asset for about a third of the cost, I have to at least pursue that option for more than a handful of games. Understand, I am not of the belief that we need a specific type of PG… pass-first or combo. I do believe that what we need is leadership. I happen to think that Sam Cassell’s leadership would be more valuable to this team than Andre Miller’s deft floor generalship. Cassell would deliver half the assists of Miller but likely more victories. Law, regardless of PG type, is a leader. And even if Calderon is a natural born leader, he will likely cost 3X as much as Law… is he 3X the leader in a salary cap-constrained league?
We don’t have a legit defensive center anywhere on this roster, let’s go get one. We may have a legit leader at the PG position on this roster. Can we give him a few months to find out? That Bobcats game left me wanting to see more.
By mykhalc
November 28, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this
i’ll admit i don’t know CALDERON’s game. but i do respect the cats on here that do and know him to be the real deal. havin’ said that, the reason that you DO NOT do ‘THAT’ deal ‘YET’ is ‘cause of salary impact!!
if you have a player under his rookie contract that can possibly bring you ALL THE THINGS that some know that CALDERON can then you check out option A first, and especially since we are dealin’ with the BROKE-A$$ SPIRIT!! just need to do the math on that one!!!
and who says that ACIE’s ‘natural’ game will not produce winnin’ ways for this team??!!?? under WOODSON, there is NO CREATIVITY…PERIOD!!! so if you don’t think that WOODSON’s coachin’ would not have a negative impact on CALDERON as a player are, then you are foolin’ yourself!!
and for those that feel the absolute need for a pass-first PG then i hope you were not for a JJ and ROY backcourt in previous years!!!!
we NEED a PG that can make a difference…PERIOD!!! give ACIE the damn ball!!!!
By doc
November 28, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this
ramon unless he is superman it is impossible for smith to attack the boards from 23 ft out. you NEVER saw rodman that far out on offense, he was hangin somewhere close to make his move to the basket, say from ten ft out. that is where smigh has to plant himself and i dont thnk it will bother horford a bit especially if it is on the other side. he can use his athleticism for boards, remember horford is only a 1/2 inch or so taller and dooesnt come close to jumping the way smith does. it also puts the bal in his hands where he can do the most damage lose to the basket. trash points look the same the next day in the boxscore.
t.w. thanks for taking it the way it was meant, lightly. if we lose those games i pointed out we are 11 and 18 heading into january or at the same win rate .333 we have seen for the past several years.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this
No problem Doc … thanks for your insight.
Regarding your prediction of 11 wins and roan st’s prediction of 10 wins, I really think these 8 games are very winnable, (and they may steal one win along the way) so I’m adjusting my prediction (again) to 14-15 (still not bad - keeps them in the hunt):
Milwaukee, N.O., Phila. Minnesota, Memphis, Toronto, Charlotte, and Indiana.
Perhaps I’m an optimist … I’m hoping the Hawks don’t disappoint me again - we’ll see where they stand when the dust clears at the end of December.
January’s schedule looks tough - 2 games vs. Cleveland, Washington (at home) and Toronto (on the road) and a 5 game West Coast trip at the end of the month. Could get real ugly if they are not up to the task.
By mykhalc
November 28, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this
gettin’ the MIL feed on NBALP. where’s MARVIN???
By smartguy
November 28, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this
Why is Mario and AJ startin together??
How bad is our head coach??
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this
Marvin Williams is out with some type of leg injury.
By robdawg06
November 28, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this
When players like Jason Terry and Boris Diaw left the Hawks they got on teams that could evaluate talent and use them where they would excel. Diaw went from almost being cut from the Hawks to being the 2nd best on defense and 3rd on offense for the Phoenix Suns. What ye say Mike Woodson to that ? I want Dominique as the top assistant coach and Mark Jackson as the head coach. Are you listening Hawks ownership ?
Plus the Hawks need to change their logo. A Hawk is a top predatory bird with no one above it except a human. This team should be renamed the Atlanta Buzzards ! A buzzard is lowest of the birds and a scavenger. They eat road kill.
By mykhalc
November 28, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this
AJ is TRULY PATHETIC!!!!! his skills eroded in dog years over the summer!!!! PITIFUL!!!
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this
mykhalc,
You are correct regarding AJ … Royal Ivey would have been a much better (and probably cheaper) option.
By Melvin
November 28, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this
Shelden is actually playing well in the paint. The lineup with JSmoove at the 3 don’t look bad. For some unknown reason. Jsmoove is playing closer the basket while he’s playing at the 3…
By mykhalc
November 28, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this
Tiger Woo, thanks for the MW update
By Melvin
November 28, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this
Good passing by Jsmoove in the 1st half. Would Woody please take Jchill of Redd. He is getting killed. How many layups are we going to let him have until somebody knock him to the floor…
By Ramon
November 28, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this
Doc, the simple way for me to put this is, I agree. He should be closer than 24 feet on majority of the plays. LOL
I was always taught, it takes a fool to argue with the truth, and on that point you are truly correct lol.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this
Bucks are 2 for 17 in the 2nd quarter. Those are Hawk-like shooting numbers.
By cp
November 28, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this
randy please dont bring up the 06 draft. I just knew that the rumor of us taking Sheldon was a smokescreen until the draft came. I then realized how bad our gm is. This team will never be a playoff team until they can get a coach with some type of plan. Woodson is terrible at adjustments, substitutions and everything else..
By terrell barron
November 28, 2007 8:17 PM | Link to this
Great Job Mario. We actually looked like a better team with him in the starting lineup, especially on the defensive end. I saw him take a couple of rebounds away from the Bucks, something I’ve yet to see Marvin do. Another thing I noticed is that there still is a lot of standing around on offense. What’s up with that? Up by 10 at the half, so I’ll take it, but we should have put in the Sniper and tried to put this game away in the 1st half.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
Any time, mykhalc …
By Melvin
November 28, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this
Hawks did not close the 2nd quarter strong. They should have been up by 20 at the half. They let the Bucks back into the game. Hopefully they can open up the 3rd quarter strong and put this game away. The Bucks bench played terrible in the 1st half and allow the Hawks to open up the lead….
By Ramon
November 28, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this
Honestly, starting Mario West was a SMART move by Woody. West’s defensive intensity is contagious. Not to mention, if West does bad, you can bring in Childress. I like the move honestly.
By terrell barron
November 28, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this
And look a here, we come out of the locker room looking dreadful, as usual.
By Clyde
November 28, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this
I’m with robdawg06. Rename the team to the Atlanta Buzzards.
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By Ramon
November 28, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this
What about Atlanta Woodpeckers….:)) lol
By new jersey faithful
November 28, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this
Does anyone know if these guys get along at all? Do they hang out off the court? Just curious about the chemistry on this team……
By mykhalc
November 28, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
no they just need to re-align the team to the D-League. ownership is D-League, 40-50% of team is D-league, effort and intensity is totally D-League, coach is D-league, attendance is D-League size. in fact partition off PHILLIPS so concurrent events can be goin’ on. make it a more intimate setting for our bloggin’ season tix holders..simple!!!
By new jersey faithful
November 28, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this
Starting Mario was good, but why not play him the rest of the game? He had a few boards, a steal, andlike 4 points in 13 minutes played. Why start him, and then just bench him?
By MJ3
November 28, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this
Great to see such wonderful team spirit on the blog.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this
Good win for the home team. Nice to see Zaza contributing.
By randy
November 28, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this
GO GET ‘EM ZAZA!!
By randy
November 28, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this
Hey I just noticed Marvin didn’t play. I thought it felt like we were playing with an extra man!
By new jersey faithful
November 28, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this
Bad shooting night for JS, but you gotta love the way he fills up the box score!! Have faith Hawks fans!!
By randy
November 28, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this
Acie will be back most likely Friday, at latest Tuesday.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 9:32 PM | Link to this
I agree new jersey faithful,
It’s early in the season and the Hawks are right in the mix. When they get all of their players back healthy and Zaza gets rolling along with Horford, they can do some things.
By randy
November 28, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this
I will stop my “FIRE WOODY!!” chant for a night. I have to say starting Mario West was exactly the spark plug the Hawks needed.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this
Next 5 games (4 at home) are all good victory opportunities - very important to get those home victories - toughest game is Detroit at home - do I sense a winning streak brewing? Team should be 11-8 (10-9 at worst) when they go into Orlando on Dec. 10.
30 - vs. New Orleans, 7:30 PM
December
3 - at Philadelphia, 7:00 PM 4 - vs. Detroit, 7:00 PM 6 - vs. Minnesota, 7:00 PM 8 - vs. Memphis, 7:00 PM
Go Hawks !!!
By Macaroni Tony
November 28, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this
I love this team, sometimes they hurt my feelings, because just think if they do some of the simple things then we could easily be a team above 500. Take the game from last night, a game that they should have won our record would be 7-7, but no we are 6-8. I wish that we could stay healthy, but I am happy to get our win back that the Bucks took from us. Great Win, GO HAWKS!!!
By Ken Strickland
November 28, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this
This was a good win, a team win. Everyone played well on both ends of the court, especially Zaza. For the record, I would switch Marvin and Childress as starters. Marvin could be very effective coming off the bench. The coaching staff would need to keep him moving, and in the gm, by running him off a series of picks. Marvin might be our best midrange shooter coming off picks. He would be a bigger, stronger version of Detroit’s Rip Hamilton. A big defender would have trouble keeping up, and a smaller defender couldn’t stop him from shooting. What do you think?
By terrell barron
November 28, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this
Josh S. needs to either work on his jumper(ALOT) or stop shooting. PERIOD! Good game for Pachulia. Good game for Chill. Good game for Mario. Decent game as a whole. Just my thoughts. Now how much does AJ make? lol
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
Very important game on Friday vs. the 10-6 Hornets. Hawks need to make a statement and defend their home court. I’ll be there to see them shut down Chris Paul (I hope)!
By doc
November 28, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this
good win tonight, huh. boy does this team ride the wave of unpredictability. keeps us all right and wrong. heh heh
seems like a lot of folks got into the action and contributed for a change. mario west gets the royal ivey award i see but probably does him one better just in his ability to be disruptive.
saw a very stark and excellent movie tonight instead of the hawks, BEFORE THE DEVIL KNOWS YOU ARE DEAD. albert finney, philp seymore hoffman and ethan hawkes were superb and marisa tomei was worth the price of admission. check it out if you want something more than entertaining.
By reese
November 28, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this
first of all, great win hawks. I missed the first half but heard bits and pieces on the radio.
The good: 6 players in double figures scoring. The praise that the team gave Mario West for his hustle. Josh Smith had entries in every positive offensive/defensive categories. Led the team in assist, steals, blocks and rebounds. The bench matched up better athletically against the bucks and therefore played better.
The bad: Salim scores double figures in 10 minutes the night before and rewards him by leaving him on the bench tonight. Josh Smith played too many minutes.
By Tiger Woo
November 28, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this
reese,
According to an article in the AJC, Salim Stoudamire dressed for the game, but he told Woodson his ankle is still bothering him.
By reese
November 29, 2007 1:21 AM | Link to this
thanks tiger woo