Hawks

By doc

November 19, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

they seem to enjoy and respect the individual effort and accomplishment. just dont seem to hear it when they have worked well as a team that same enthusiasm either during or after the game.

sekou there just doesnt seem to be anything new to this team, no new wrinkles or designs. no finish to the rough product. at what point does one expect this transition and what does it take? usually someone else communicating it in a different way, that is the only thing to try at this point. the other things that should have been done werent like getting a proven big or point guard in the off season. what is left if they havent shown the maturity that is needed to grow is that after 20 games and it is clear this is a team destined to finish at a .333 win rate it to try a different voice. i am willing to wait, just dont feed me the hype anymore about readied rookies coming out of college to carry the load to turn this team into a winner, when healthy we still hear the coach say it is too much for a rookie. talking out of both sides of the mouth.

glad to see royal ivey get some time on the court with some freedom to play. again, havent we seen this before in diaw?

By I.MUS WRITE

November 19, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

9 games in no need to panic,but we should be concerned. We need a team effort every night, if one guy goes for 30 or more points the remainder of the team seems to be standing around watching/ daydreaming.Marvin and Chillz need to stay in attack mode regardless of who has the hot hand.Big teams are gonna kill us inside until we get a defensive center to pair with Horford. Bogut,Charlie V and Gadzurich all looked good in the paint against us-the reason for this: ZaZa has no defense at all and the bucks had 2 7 footers and a 6’11 guy playing against 6’9 horford and 6’7 shell head-thats crazy. We look defensless in the post -tip ins,dunks,offensive rebounds etc….. The kid from GS does’nt look so bad if we can get him for maybe Marvin,Sheldon and Tlue. If they will take those guyz in return lets get a real center in here ASAP

By Damn

November 19, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Man, My heart was crushed by that Seattle game. I have been a Hawks fan since I was 10 (the 85-86 season). I have stuck with them. But the past two years, I find myself giving up after 20 games.

I have enjoyed watching them so far this year. I just wish J. Smooth can keep playing like he did against Milwaukee. I will keep with them if they keep showing some heart.

By Dam0n

November 19, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Man, My heart was crushed by that Seattle game. I have been a Hawks fan since I was 10 (the 85-86 season). I have stuck with them. But the past two years, I find myself giving up after 20 games.

I have enjoyed watching them so far this year. I just wish J. Smooth can keep playing like he did against Milwaukee. I will keep with them if they keep showing some heart.

By doc

November 19, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

i mus, people shouted me down when i reminded them of just how SHORT this team is in comparison to others BEFORE the season. rediculed the fact. teams literally throw it over us and will continue to do so. we surprisingly matched up well with the mavs because their big is a perimeter guy and the suns because their big was out, and the hornets didnt beat up on us the way they have in the past. that is it, essentially, as when folks come at us with bigs we fold and have no plan to counter.

By mykhalc

November 19, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

SEKOU, good read and blog man. i am curious as to what you mean as awkward tho??? and i know that question might be crossin’ the line but…

DOC, you said it bro. the rooks give the team the best chance to win…PERIOD!!!

ZAZA’s insertion back into the startin’ lineup does not produce anythin’ other than HORFORD comin’ off the bench!!! NO OTHER BENEFITS…PERIOD!!! in fact it made the defense worst!!! and as other cats were gettin’ acclaimated(sp?) to each other, ZAZA brought a lack of D and the need to try to go 1-on-1 down on the low block to produce costly TO’s. and it clearly took away from the ‘team-ball’ that was bein’ developed with the first unit.

to me, if the players remain the same, then WOODSON needs to put LUE and ZAZA on the court together. they play the same kinda slow-down, pound the ball game, and they work well together.

SEKOU, the coach needs to be handed a mirror also!!! because it’s clear to me that HE DOES NOT give the team the best chance to win, nite-in nite-out either!!! as limited as this team may be, as much as they might limit themselves, the coach is a great piece in that limitin’ factor also!!!!

By Ben

November 19, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

But the vibe in the locker room after that game was as awkward as any I’ve observed since coming here to cover this team.

^^^what was the vibe?

The players are not being coached correctly.

Woodson cannot run any offensive sets, we have no point guards healthy, and that’s just the beginning of it

By smartguy

November 19, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

Sekou, the calling for Woody’s job is not a knee-jerk reaction to the first nine games. *It is something we have been consistently calling for since last season. *

When you talk about the lack of continuity, who do you think is responsible for that? Certainly they could all do better, but ultimately, it is the head coach’s job to get the team on the same page.

I do hope the players still know that we love and support them.

By TJ

November 19, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

I agree with you, Sekou.

Nowadays, folk are already losing faith in everybody associated with the Hawks. I recall another rags-to-riches team that had a similar plight last year.

THE TORONTO RAPTORS opened the 2006-07 fresh from a 7-1 preseason (sound familiar?). After their first 10 games, their record stood at 2-8, and Sam Mitchell was on his way OUT the door (sound EVEN MORE familiar?) Somehow though, they hit .500 in FEBRUARY, their star player makes the All-Star team, and they win the division, Sam Mitchell gets Coach of the Year, all that stuff.

Now I’m NOT saying that Woody will get COTY, but I’m saying that the season is young. I will admit that our record should have three more wins in it, but hey…we’ll see tomorrow if they can keep Ginobili from running train (24 straight pts.) on them.

By randy

November 19, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

Sometimes a coaching change is all it takes. Thrashers fired their coach after an 0-6 start and so far they have went 9-4 since with the same roster but new coach. Sometimes all a team needs is a shakeup at the top and I really don’t think Woody is teaching them the fundamentals. I mean after 3 seasons don’t you think they could protect the ball better, turnover have been killing us ever since he has been here. And for a defensive minded coach our defense looks like swiss cheese many times. That along with questionable substitutions and constantly losing in close games. Frankly, it is getting old. We gave Woody more than a fair handshake and has let us down yet again. He needs to go. After a while your team starts losing faith in you and your way of doing things and don’t play up to par. That may not be happening but past 2 games they have looked totally uninspired.

FIRE WOODY!!

By Willie Coyote

November 19, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

It would be nice if Salim would have gotten into the Bucks game when they were struggling to score. But the coach evidently sees things differently.

Zaza still plays no defense.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 19, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Golden State just signed Deja Mnbenga, this means that GS’s Biedrins may be expendable.This would be a good pick up for the hawks. Biedrins is 21yo and his numbers are similar to J smoove-and he gets these numbers at the center position. AB: 15pts-9rebs-2blocks per game

Golden state wanted to trade AB for Smoove straight up,but that got rejected-as it should have been.

ATL SENDS: Marvin,Sheldon,AJ,future 2nd rounder

GS SENDS: Biedrins,Monta Ellis

This trade would give us a young active defensive minded center to pair with Horford.Also an established young point to run with Acie.With all the expiring contracts coming off this summer we could use the cap space for a scoring 2guard. ZaZa could take over for Lo Wright next year as the highest paid cheerleader on the squad.

I know this is unlikely to happen due to ownes fueding and Bk having his hands cuffed, it just makes since go out on a limb and get it done BILLY!!!

By I.MUS WRITE

November 19, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Golden State just signed Deja Mnbenga, this means that GS’s Biedrins may be expendable.This would be a good pick up for the hawks. Biedrins is 21yo and his numbers are similar to J smoove-and he gets these numbers at the center position. AB: 15pts-9rebs-2blocks per game

Golden state wanted to trade AB for Smoove straight up,but that got rejected-as it should have been.

ATL SENDS: Marvin,Sheldon,AJ,future 2nd rounder

GS SENDS: Biedrins,Monta Ellis

This trade would give us a young active defensive minded center to pair with Horford.Also an established young point to run with Acie.With all the expiring contracts coming off this summer we could use the cap space for a scoring 2guard. ZaZa could take over for Lo Wright next year as the highest paid cheerleader on the squad.

I know this is unlikely to happen due to ownes fueding and Bk having his hands cuffed, it just makes since go out on a limb and get it done BILLY!!!

By randy

November 19, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

mychalc, if you think ZAZA is the problem you need to open your eyes. Horford is still playing most of the minutes and the defense isn’t improving when he is in or out. Horford is better at rebounding but he will only get you 10 points at most a night. Zaza atleast has a jumpshot and goes to the basket and at this point scoring is definately lacking. Complaining about Zaza turning it over after coming off an injury is laughable. I can’t count how many times Horford has been called for traveling. I am not knocking Horford, he is definately gonna be awesome, but you can’t blame this on a guy who is only playing like 15-20 minutes a game. The whole team is just playing uninspired. Woody needs to go.

By Up North

November 19, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

What were the scout’s thoughts of Smoove and this team’s play? And what about, Josh Smith trade rumors to GS…..

By Khao$

November 19, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Given what fans have seen the past two years (not counting the 13 win season; Woody wasn’t given anything to play with that year), fans are justified in calling for his head. He’s a good assistant, but not a good head coach.

By mountain jim

November 19, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

I agree with Randy - look at the Thrashers turnaround. It has been clear now for well over a year where the Hawks main problem is - an offensive-strategy-challenged sourpuss of a coach that developed the rooks ok but can’t get along with vets, can’t manage games down the stretch worth a damn, and can’t get any respect for this team from the officials.

We know why the Atlanta Spirit can’t afford to replace him with a quality replacement just yet given their ownership legal and financial situation, but even just promoting from within could only help matters in my opinion.

Woody needs to go. The Atlanta Spirit needs to get over the fact that they will be paying him to sit at home. Hell, let Dominique coach em until the lawsuit gets settled - he could not do any worse and he’s already on the payroll.

By reese

November 19, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Ray, I have to laugh now. Last week, I was all over the place and this week I have tunnel vision. Yes, HB Ando explained an approach and I stated that I didn’t agree with that approach. I’m looking at the historical, short term and long term. In other words, the big picture.

Also, I like horford, but Jason Maxiel and Antonio McDeyss from detroit, 2 undersized players, schooled him. Thats why I want to give him and josh defensive help.

Based on historical, Marvin has not proven that he can deliver the shot blocking, rebounding, steals, assists and intensity that josh smith provides. Childress does not consistently produce the results displayed by Josh Smith. Woodson is intent on playing childress, marvin, jj and js the majority of minutes and therefore is not keeping those players fresh and is not developing/utilizing the strengths of the bench.

Based on the short term, I don’t see anyone besides Horford and Smith who consistently block shots. I don’t see woodson giving solomon jones a chance to play alongside horford and smith. I don’t see woodson giving salim or ac the majority of minutes and allowing them to push the tempo. I don’t see marvin, childress or jj changing their mentality of pushing the pace on offensive or defensive because they don’t have the desire to play at that pace for 35 to 40 minutes every night.

Based on the long term, we have the following choices, (1)we need to give these guys time to look at film, talk to each other, talk to coaches and come to the conclusion it is a work in progress; (2) we need to wait for the coaches to realize that the combination of players need to be changed to place players with the same mindset on the floor together for longer stretches; (3)we need to trade for players who will play the style of play that woodson finally decides on; (4) we need to make wholesale changes with coaches and players; (5) we do nothing and wait until the players some how decide to consistently play with the passion of a rodman/artest, the smarts of a magic or bird and the killer instinct of a Jordan or Bryant.

Hopefully, the players will go into a room with a wall size mirror, look at it together, talk among themselves and coaches and decide on options 1, 2 and 5.

If not, it will be 3 or 4.

By Chris

November 19, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Why don’t you take this opportunity to apply for a job covering Michigan football?

By mavid

November 19, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Sounds like we still don’t have any chemistry. That’s absolutely fantastic!

By Astro Joe

November 19, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

The reality is that little can be done until the ownership nonsesne is settled. Sekou, do all of the owners need to agree to dismiss a head coach/GM? I thought I read that was the case a while ago but now I’m not sure.

Here’s my guess… Belkin may have approved to let Hartley go from Thrashers but he may not be as accomodating with the Hawks. In fact, I’m guessing that if he could have taken over the Hawks and the other owners assumed control of Thrashers/Philips, this thing would have been resolved a while ago. To Belkin, the Hawks are the crown jewel. So I personally don’t see him doing anything to help the other owners until he either accepts a buyout, the judge makes a ruling or he gains control. I’m not even sure that replacing Woody with Drew (or another assistant) is an option. Maybe a dollar-for-dollar trade is a possibility, but even that seems remote.

Sounds like the boys were physically and emotionall wasted after their last 2 games. They’ll bounce back and I expect a very good effort tomorrow against the Spurs. Exhaustion makes everything appear worse. But I’m guessing they recognize that at this point, they’re all just playing out the season. Some will be freed at the end of this season, others will stay here at Shawshank. But redemption won’t come until a few rich guys spend a few millions in legal fees and a disinterested judge bangs his gavel. Until then, we’re watching an NBA Reality show. We wait for the in-fighting and the cliques to develop (kind of like Survival). We cheer for our favorite “contestant” while recognizing that the collection isn’t particularly talented (kind of like American Idol). We question if anyone is truly worthy of our devotion (kind of like Real World). We hope that someone who plays with integrity and heart will come out on top (like The Apprentice). And we all know what will happen in the conclusion (like the WWE). Playoffs? Hell to the no.

By roan st

November 19, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

UP North, What josh smith to golden state trade rumors? I like smoove but I would trade him and either combo of salim/ shelden to Golden state for biedriens and ellis. That would be a damn good trade for the hawks. Biedrens is an athletic true center that averages about 11 boards and two blocks per contest. Not to mention he is only 21 with an improving offensive game and I think he is signed long term. If we could get them to throw in Ellis there is your perfect combo guard. He can give JJ that breather and provide great scoring ability at the two or play alongside jj and run the point when needed. Acie still gets plenty of burn because ellis will get his minutes divided between both guard spots. Again, I love smoove but we would be crazy not to do that deal. It would go a long ways toward balancing out this roster. ANY THOUGHTS?

By Khao$

November 19, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

The question asked is, are the players improving? The answer is yes. I disagree, I see hints of chemistry with these guys. I’ve seen improvment amongst the players, but no improvments or new wrinkles in the offense from Mike Woodson. Additionally, what we’ve screamed for Billy Knight to take care (PG play) still hasn’t been truly addressed. Acie is our best hope. However, he’s still a rookie. The other PG’s are 2nd and 3rd stringers. Therefore, I think we’re justified in asking for his head. This has gone on too long. One or the other (or both) needs to go.

By Melvin

November 19, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

Roanst, Let me get this right. We should trade our best asset (or player) for another team 2nd string center and undersize 2 guard. How would this be an improvement for the Hawks? GS would be laughing at us all the way to the playoffs (again) with 3 former Hawks instead of 2 this year as we extend our playoff drought…

By Jerry West

November 19, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

Anybody remember the Hawks have been playing 2 rookie starters or starters minutes. Of course Acie is injured, but the key word is ROOKIES. Holy Cow…anybody who can’t see that this team is dramatically improved from last year needs to actually watch the games. You can’t judge this team by listening on the radio or reading about the final score in the daily rag. YOU HAVE TO WATCH THE ACTUAL GAME. You’re still 1 big shot swatin’ 7 footer away from legitmacy, but this team CAN make the playoffs. Have a little patience and don’t get your panties in a wad this early in the season. Unfortunately, Woody is here until the ownership struggles are complete. Deal with it! GO HAWKS!!!

By I.MUS WRITE

November 19, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

WOW Man……Jerry West is a prophet. The team may be improved from last year,but Woody is going to be here until this ownership mess is settled.There is’nt going to be any trades…….Dam… That sux

By hawks players

November 19, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

The reason the lockeroom was so ackward was because J Smith had been getting to the basket and scoring with ease all game long. Yet, when it really counted our great coach called for an isolation for Joe. Which resulted in a miss and a loss. We can’t beat the other team and our own coach.

By SalimFan

November 19, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

Man salim got no burn in that game….I just do not know what to say. That was his type of game too. Anyone want to go into franchise management? These guys have no clue what their doing. Starting with those sorry OFFENSIVE sets and POOR PLARER ROTATION!

By Ballhog

November 19, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

same ole, same ole. unbelievably talented 2-4 guys who are actually coming into their own with marvin, joe, josh, horford, childress. those 5 are playing real well. the problem is there is no point guard and there is no legit post up big man.

there are too many point guards on the team but no point guard nevertheless. none of them have the requisite vision.

law can break anyone down with ease and i am pleased with his play but i ain’t too sure he plays like a point. it’s almost too easy for acie to get to the hoop at times.

there is no one setting people up. the team needs the point to move, move, move the ball up tempo on the break. this kind of point would accentuate the great strengths of josh smith, marvin williams, and horford and childress.

the hawks also however need the point in the half court. none of their points set people up. it becomes like the joe johnson iso show.

no off the ball movement.

there is no point guard setting it up so that josh smith is catching alley oops or getting pass while he cuts and dashes like a mad man at full speed into the key for a dunk or layup.

there do not seem to be any point guards setting up enough pick and rolls which would accentuate horford’s and smoove’s skills since neither is yet a legit low post presence.

the off the ball movement is nonexistent.

joe does not seem to come off picks enough so that he can take clean shots.

marvin has developed a freaking deadly shot from the top of the key which they need to take more advantage of but there is no point guard who seems to understand that this has become a great strength of marvin and they do not set him up for it.

plus since there is no off the ball movement and there are no picks being set up, marvin is not being set up to come off picks at the top of the key to take wide open jump shots from there that he nails every time.

even worse, if the point is at, say, the extended elbow and horford or josh smith sets that pick for marvin - either marvin will be wide open at the top of the key or josh/horford will be wide open going towards the basket as they roll out of the pick towards the basket.

the lack of a legit inside post up big man is a killer as well. there is no inside outside game being played.

again, it all just seems to be joe iso and everyone just watch joe iso do his thang. there is no dump in, dump out game being run.

they are not running like they should because they have no legit point.

they are not playing like they should in the half court because they have no legit point, no legit post up big man, and the coach lacks imagination to figure out what plays to get a point guard to run to accentuate the strengths of his players in the half court and to minimize their weaknesses.

this team has just far too much talent I believe in acie, horford, marvin, joe, josh & josh to be playing like this.

any talk of trading marvin williams, josh smith, and horford is foolishly absurd.

By Dante

November 19, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

Until this team gets a legit point guard running the show, they will continue to be erratic and inconsistent.

The bottom line is this team will go as far as Acie Law will take them. We will all have to be patient until he grows into that role.

By KiKi

November 19, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

I hope they solve their point guard issues real soon. You know there’s a problem when JJ and J-Smoove are leading the team in assists respectively, and the rookie Acie has shown more maturity and poise than the veterans. And what’s really going on with Anthony Johnson? Maybe he’s the reason the vibe is bad in the locker room.

By Steve T

November 19, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

The problem on this team is coaching. The hawks can have a lead, but we blow it because we can hit shots. The Hawks have 3 good shooters on the team JJ, Marvin, Salmin. When Acie returns he will be the fouth.

Woody need to run those guys off screens to help them get open. If I was Woody, I would run JJ off some screens and have Marvin on the outside. If the defense crashes to stop JJ, he can kick it to Marvin or AC/Salmin. If done right, the hawks can spread the defense. Then it will free Hordord and Smith to work the inside.

By DB

November 19, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

Boy I can tell you one thing if any of you so called experts was in the front office we would be allot worst off than we are now with all those DUMB trade scenerios…..gimme A BREAK!!!!!

By HB Ando

November 19, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this

The last I heard from the GM at GS, they weren’t even concerned about not getting an extension signed with Beidrins, this past summer, because, as his direct quote read, “he’s not going anywhere”. They’re willing and ready to match any number thrown out there next summer. He’s 21 and he’s already a top-ten center in the league. If you think they’re trading Biedrins for Smith, you got another thing coming.

What the signing of Mbenga DOES mean, is, when taken in the context of the decision not to extend O’Bryant, making him a free agent next summer, is that O’Bryant is likely available right now. And I think a Shelden for O’Bryant offer would make a lot of sense. O’Bryant doesn’t fit in their plans, but GS could use another physical banger on their second team.

I’d be shopping Shelden for O’Bryant, right now. Shelden has no real future here, and O’Bryant is worth taking a shot at, in light of his legit size and potential on the defensive end.

But the fact that Mbenga has been floating out there, since being cut by the Mavs, begs the usual question of why the heck the center-challenged Hawks didn’t pony up a few bucks and bring him here.

Billy simply never makes the clever move. Ever.

Looking forward to attending the Spurs game, with my favorite blogger, Jhan (absolute and obvious suck up), and my favorite, ref-baiting retired physician, tomorrow night.

And, to the dude who brought up Toronto’s start, and finish, last year, as a plausible scenario for the Hawks: What allowed that to happen was a top-five assist guy, in Ford (with a back-up PG who’s better than any of our PG’s), and one of the best young big men in the NBA. Those, not coincidentally, are the two, continued, glaring holes in Billy’s bafflingly imbalanced roster. And that is why we will not replicate Toronto’s turn around.

Anyone else notice that only 3 teams in the East have worst records than us, and one is the Heat, who just got D-Wade back, and the second is the Bulls, who are simply too talented to stay behind us, and the third, is the fatally flawed Knicks, who still have 2 big men that we can’t contend with in the post?

To those of you who were predicting 40+ wins, and making the playoffs, I simply have to ask you what the hell you were looking at when you evaluated the East?

Steve T, you continue to approach the complex problems, of this team, with the logic of a six-year old. “If we would just run more screens, we’d make the playoffs.”

Brilliant.

By Yves

November 19, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

First and foremost; GO BLUE. Having been born and raised in ATL before venturing off to Ann Arbor; I am a faithful Hawks fan that attempts to catch as many games on TV that I can find in Indianapolis. What I see is a bunch of talent and no leadership. A lot of one on one play and little ball movement. This team will be awesome when they decide as a unit that they will not accept anything short of the playoffs.

By John

November 19, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

All of those Biedrins trades are ridiculous. How is Golden State doing with him. I admit his stat sheets look good, but if you actually watch him play, there is no way you trade Marvin for him. Marvin is already starting to break out and will continue to do so. The Hawks are better this year. I have watched every game and don’t simply read the AJC to get news on the team. The team has only played BAD in two games this year. Washington and New Jersey. They were even in those games. Seattle go so lucky. Wilkins was simply throwing crazy shots up and they were going in. They will pick it up.

By HB Ando

November 19, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

Yes, DB, we’d certainly be much better off if we had someone like yourself, who cannot either spell, or write a complete sentence. Though the truth of your point is otherwise sound.

By mykhalc

November 19, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

randy, then keep on laughin’ with your eyes close my friend. if you can’t see the ‘LACK ‘OF’ that ZAZA brings then nothin’ else to be said. i’ll take the positives that HORFORD brings any day along with the travel calls as opposed to the ‘lack of’ ZAZA brings to the court. puttin’ him back in the startin’ lineup was a typical WOODSON brain-freeze. i said it would happen just like i said WOODSON will take him back outta the startin’ lineup…book it!!!! but if you keep your eyes closed you’ll miss it!!!

By mykhalc

November 19, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

ANDO, definitely with ya on goin’ after O’BRYANT if he’s actually available. he just came off a big game against LAC a couple of days ago. SHELDEN for O’BRYANT, in a heartbeat!!!!

By mykhalc

November 19, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

John, i live in san fran and BIEDRINS is the real deal, no doubt. GSW just got STEPHEN JACKSON back from suspension so their on court attitude has ALREADY been adjusted. SJ, along with BARON DAVIS, are the heart and soul of the team. but SJ brings the attitude and game that the team was lackin’ to start the year.

i would not be so quick to dismiss a JS or MW for BIEDRINS trade if it were doable. but it’s not. GSW will not give him up…IMHO!!!

By John

November 19, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc, I like Golden State. I think they are a solid team, but I have seen Biedrins play many times and he has NEVER really impressed me. He shoots a great percentage. I will give him that, but I am not sold on him. Also, Stephen Jackson might bring them an attitude that they have lacked, but I am not so sure that they can sneak into the playoffs again, with several teams in the West improved. New Orleans is playing great, and I don’t see anyone else really falling. Stephen Jackson is good, but he might be one of the more overrated players in the game right now because everyone is saying his return will get them completely on the right track. I hope he can. I like the Warriors, but I am not sure it can happen. You probably would not trade Jackson(we have had him)for Marvin Williams, however I wouldn’t either, just like I would not trade him for Biedrins.

By Tiger Woo

November 19, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

The Hawks are under-achieving right now. It is early - no reason to panic.

My question is: Are Orlando and New Orleans - both at 9-2 - that much better than the Hawks? I say the main difference is the inside presence they have with Howard and Chandler respectively and the solid point guards with Nelson and Paul respectively - just what the Hawks are lacking. Why didn’t they go after T. Chandler when he was available?

By mykhalc

November 19, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

John, can’t disagree with anythin’ you’ve said my friend. but i guess we just see BIEDRINS differently. and i see BIEDRINS havin’ even MORE IMPACT with a team like the HAWKS. his defense, if nothin’ else, is far better than ZAZA’s and he brings more length than HORFORD. he would provide that interior defense that we sooooo desperately need. and i think, the fact that we play slower than NELLIE’s crew, would only add to his effectiveness. but again, i doubt GSW will not part with him anyhow.

By Tiger Woo

November 19, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

The Hawks have lost 17 straight road games. Until they are able to gain confidence and win games on the road, they will not be a playoff team in the near future.

By Aaron

November 19, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Biedrins -for- Smith would be too risky for Knight & the unstable ownership.

I’d look for a better PG, offering something like:

Anthony Johnson Josh Childress Shelden Williams

-for-

Jose Calderon Jorge Garbajosa Juan Dixon

Suddenly the Hawks are an up-tempo team that causes problems for other teams instead of the other way around.

By Eric

November 19, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

NOBODY GETS IT, IT’S NOT THE PLAYERS IT’S THE SORRY COACH!!! PLEASE GET WOODSON OUT OF TOWN!!! HE HAS THE WORST RECORD OF ANY COACH IN HAWKS HISTORY, AND I AM NOT PLAYING LOOK IT UP.

By Tiger Woo

November 19, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

Eric,

This is the defining year for Coach Woodson. The Hawks have said throughout the preseason that they have all the pieces in place to make a serious playoff run. No excuses. If it doesn’t happen this year, it’s time to make a coaching change and stir things up.

By Tiger Woo

November 19, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Aaron,

The Hawks are not going to pull the trigger on a trade like that - not this early. Let the season play out and see if the current team can excel.

By ray

November 19, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

Reese, I don’t know what’s more perplexing: the fact that you still don’t get what I’m saying or the fact that you support Smith like he’s a 5-time all-star. For the last time:

First,I like Smith, but I agree with Ando when he says that out of our three swingmen/small forwards, he has the most trade value. This is because of what he can do, which you should agree with. If entering a trade scenario (particularly for our “center of the future”), Josh Smith very likely gives us the best leverage of the three. And that’s IF there is a trade scenario. Do you see what I’m saying?? I’m agreeing with you on the fact that he’s the most talented sf we have statistic -wise!! It just so happens that because of that talent, he is the most attractive trade asset we have. Look, you simply cannot have it both ways. You say he’s the most talented forward we’ve got. You’re right. That makes him the most attractive to other teams. Get it?

Second, it was Ando who said you were “all over the place.” And you were. You reached in every which direction in what I guess you saw as your defense of him. It was I that said your argument had merit, but could be viewed several different ways. If you’re going to twist my words, then make sure it’s my words that you’re using. And be sure of the context in which they were originally written.

Third, enough with the stats. I know what the guy does. I follow it all religiously. Marvin will likely never be the defender Josh is. But he will defend decently. The trick is this: Marvin is more adept offensively. He can shoot like nobody’s business. And when he learns to more consistently take it to the hole, he’ll score more than Josh will. Josh can’t shoot, and it’s obvious. He goes to the hole more than he used to, but not enough. Marvin’s offensive talents are currently and potentially better. Josh’s defensive talents are currently and potentially better. Am I say Marvin is better than Josh? NO!! I’m saying what Ando said: Marvin is a real live option if Josh goes. Same if Marvin goes: we still have Josh. Marvin’s abilities and current play solidify this idea and show him to be legit. Here’s another idea: we don’t need all those defensive stats from the sf spot when we have a defensively adept pf (Horford) and IF we get a good center.

Bottom line: no matter which gets traded (if a trade is even done)neither will give you what we really need, which is a big that can bang and hang with the best of other teams’ big men. Horford is just not quite big enough, he’s a pf. Josh can’t hang with guys Horford is big/strong enough to hang with. Marvin can’t do what Josh does. And if we can’t get that big with Marvin, then we get him with Josh. That simple. I realize you don’t even like the sound of the possibility of Josh leaving. But it’s there, and it’s true. If you don’t get it that this isn’t a massive “trade Josh” conspiracy, then there’s no point in talking about it further.

Now it’s my turn to laugh, ‘cause I know while I’m watching the Atlanta Hawks, you’re watching the Atlanta Josh Smiths.

By ray

November 19, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

Randy, you must have selective sight. Horford has definitely been called for traveling quite a few times. The reason for his low scoring average is Woodson only runs 3 or 4 plays for him a game. And I think even that happens by accident. The rest of the time, he’s in there bodying up to the other teams’ bigs. I’ve watched him give opposing PFs all they could handle and then some. This guy is doing well on defense, in addition to being nearly in the top ten in the NBA in rebounding (not to mention leading all rookies and THIS team). He’s averaging nearly 2 blocks a game. The guy’s a rookie, and by the numbers…he’s smaller than Zaza, who has an inch or two and about 30-40 lbs on him.

So uh, where’s the problem again? It *ain’t * with Horford. He makes the defense better. He blocks shots, grabs boards by the bunches, and does the dirty work. Seems to me that we’ve signed and drafted at least 4 players before we found what was needed in him. Now put a tough center next to him and watch what happens.

By mike

November 19, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

There needs to be a change- SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR RECOMMENDING ZAZA PACHULIA FOR THE ALL STAR GAME- “WHO” “WHAT”“WHERE” DID THEY ( I assume Mike Woodson the coach recommended him since he reasserted him in the starting line up)

“Woodson Must Go” I have been a hawks fan, and I even read espn insider and even before the last 2 games they had the hawks in the power rankings ranked 14th- The consensus was that this was and is one of the most talented and athlectic teams in the “NBA” yes the NBA- Some how Mike Woodson, and I have watched the last 2 games.

Your at home against arguable the worst team in the NBA- Sonics- traveled 4 hours from the west Coast to play our Hawks with our home crowd-

Mike Woodson single handly lost that game- How many blow ups does it take for him to get into with his team before he is accountable? Josh Smith blow up- (one of the most exciting and highly rated young players in the NBA. Salim Stoudemire- (Our best shooter and one of the best 3 point shooters in the whole NBA and average 16 points a game the last 10 games of last season- Doesn’t hardly see the court. Anthony Johnson a veteran that we traded for based on his leadership skills? These are the three that are very public- I am sure there are more that we don’t know about.

Fact is these guys don’t believe in this coach. The fans of Atlanta don’t believe in this guy. I don’t believe in this guy. It won’t be long before we all lose our strong enthuasism if this keeps up and tune the Hawks out.

It’s sad but there seems to be more allegiance now to Mike Woodson because of this other owner not wanting to fire him due to the fact that Belkin may applaud them on it. It’s either lose Woodson bring in Fratello or another veteran coach this young guys would look up to or lose the Fans of Atlanta- Hell if you can fire the head coach of the Thrashers who went to the playoffs and are a hell of a lot more exciting than the hawks. How in the hell does Mike Woodson keep his jobs with a squad that is made up of all high first rounders?

By HB Ando

November 19, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

Ray, shot you an e-mail. How is it that you never have your cell, e-mail and keyboard handy, simultaneously?

I’m accessible via mobile for about 30 more……

By The Dark Karma

November 19, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

Pachulia gets low minutes because he is a back up center. Even on a team where he is the only defined center, he is still a back up. It matters not that he starts. One may also look upon this situation as Woodson bringing him back slower, with fewer minutes so as to not wear him out. But you know the truth of it. He is a back up. A starter by default.

Looking into the mirror is to choose truth or lies. If you have lied to yourself before stepping in front of the mirror, you will only see the lies you choose to believe. If you choose to look at truth, you will see the truth. The mirror has no power. The power resides in the choice to embrace truth or reject it. Such is the state of this organization, the choice to believe lies that they tell themselves. But it is not just the organization. Some fans choose this as well. Distasteful, but true.

By The Dark Karma

November 19, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this

To assume that one team will get what it desires from another without taking into account what the other team desires and would require, is laughable. And yet, many of the trade ideas presented here are rooted in such foolishness. Evidently, some are enamored with the idea that something of value is easily gained from an organization while offering something of little or no value. Perhaps the concept of looking in the mirror is too advanced for such simple minds as these.

By mykhalc

November 19, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, mahalo my brotha!!! you said it waaaayyyy better than i could have or have the patience to!!!LOL BTW, RANDY just has his eyes closed!!LOL

By Makdaddy

November 20, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this

I believe that the hawks are for real, it’s just that after Zaza’s return, things haven’t been as well as they were supposed to be. Let me elaborate. Zaza’s lack of defense has been stated again and again. Another thing that has truck me again and again is Zaza not being a willing participant in offense. Let me elaborate on that. Zaza is a pretty good one-on-one guy, but where he is very weak is the off the ball stuff. When he doesn’t have the ball, he doesn’t know what to do. He normally stands around near the free throw line, and when his teammates are dribbling, instead of going over and setting up a pick, or getting the hell out of the teammate’s way, he decides to hang around in no man’s land, where essentially, he doesn’t get the ball, he doesn’t give space for his teammate to operate, nor does he cooperate by setting up a pick or going somewhere else. I have seen this happen again and again. He goes to the free throw area, and then he asks for the ball (or decides to hang around over there clogging up valuable space up there for the perimeter guys to operate). When Al Horford is in the game, he is either setting up picks, or he goes there in that area only when he knows that he is not getting in the way of another teammate. He knows how to play team ball. He goes for rebounds, and in the offensive sets, cooperates and plays team ball. Bottom line, get Zaza out of the starting line up. The hawks already have Joe, Marvin, and Josh Smith doing the scoring, in the first unit, just get Horford there to ensure rebounding, defense, and team ball (setting up picks, etc) on offense… please..

By mykhalc

November 20, 2007 12:40 AM | Link to this

ACIE is ready to run this team if they let him (when healthy of course)!!! he is the PG needed…PERIOD!! he showed excellent strides in his last 3 starts. they WANT a pass-first PG then he showed he can BE that!! but DO NOT be fooled. he brings a complete package, with size!! and that’s somethin’ none of the other cats bring…PERIOD!!!

now here is an observation and i definitely DO NOT take credit for this. i think maybe KEN or REESE first stated it??? somebody tho.

ok…i’m hopin’ that WOODSON puts the ball back in ACIE’s hand when he returns. BUT it is obvious that JJ is NOW runnin’ the offense. right now as soon as LUE crosses half court, he gives the ball up to JJ. so as another blogger posted could we see a lineup of JJ, MW, JS, AH, and ZAZA?? just askin’??? more downside that upside probably. depletes the bench more than anythin’ i would think. JJ could defend the PG position better than LUE tho. anyway, just noticin’ how much JJ has the ball in his hands since ACIE went down.

and i gotta give JJ his props since he pulled his game and attitude outta his butt. the cat can flat out ball!!! the way he’s been gettin’ into the lane for that floater, to the rim, hittin’ BIG 3’s, dishin’ out the dimes, he’s been on a mission the last few games, no doubt!!! keep it rollin’ JJ!!!

Makdaddy, on point. WOODSON needs to let that 1st unit of ACIE, JJ, MW, JS, and HORFORD establish themselves, establish an identity. but i guess it’s hard for a coach to create somethin’ that he DOES NOT know how to fully implement. sometimes i actually feel for WOODSON!!! ‘cause it really is BEYOND his capabilities right now!!!!

By reese

November 20, 2007 12:55 AM | Link to this

OK there must be two Ray’s on this board, because a Ray posted on November 11, 2007 2:12 AM Making some noise blog and said “Reese, the argument is rather fluid. It goes in all directions. You certainly have valid points.

Ray, yes I get the fact that Josh Smith is the most attractive prospect to other teams. Guess what, he is the most attractive prospect for this team as well.

My goal is not to give other teams our most attractive prospect. Greedy Yes, but hey thats my perogative. I don’t think Joe Dumars feels sorry for taking Rasheed off our hands.

My goal is to place complimentary players around the most attractive prospect. Its really that simple and thats why my trade request for a complimentary center and point guard did not involve JJ, Marvin, JC or JS unless we’re talking about someone like a Kobe Bryant.

I’ve said it before and I’ll repeat it again. BK has already gone the route of trading away our most attractive prospects to other teams. He traded two all stars for 1 with the rasheed deal. He traded rasheed for veterans and a draft pick. He traded Jason Terry for Antoine Walker and I believe a draft pick.

I watched BK give away our attractive players that I enjoyed watching and wanted BK to place complimentary players around them. Now I see the results of his grand plan and to watch you and HB Ando state that we should repeat the same task will always receive a friendly response from me.

By CJ

November 20, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this

I thought the Hawks had a better record than that. But if this season is deja vu again…like the last two. Then atleast we know it doesn’t work…but when you have a broken organization do you really expect a group of rookies to magically fix things. Does that even make sense? Sounds like George Bush theory.

By LA Hawk

November 20, 2007 1:21 AM | Link to this

Missed free throws in the clutch, lack of hustle, t.o.’s, tantrums, coach with a .300 winning percentage, GM mucking up every draft…there is absolutely no accountability anywhere in this organization and everyone keeps cashing paychecks. They (players, coaches, front office) have no reason to change.

By HB Ando

November 20, 2007 1:32 AM | Link to this

Exactly, Big Ray. It’s Horford’s skill set, maybe even more than Marvin’s, that makes the mere thought of trading Josh Smith palatable. If you’re long-term front line is built around Smith at the 3 and Horford at the 4, then unless you’re getting a Okur-type center, you’re team simply isn’t a good enough of a perimeter-shooting team. And even with the two of them, without an upgrade at the five, we’re continuing to be dominated on the blocks (Bogut’s doubling of his season averages, with a 23/12/4 night).

Look, I’ll say it for the millionth time: to build a championship team, it will take balance, not, necessarily, a compendium of individual talents.

One can only hope that this “future” roster is in the hands of someone other than the King of Clueless, Billy Knight. His track record is roughly akin to being given 20 shots at a coin flip, to win $20 million, and calling it wrong all 20 times.

Enough already.

By HB Ando

November 20, 2007 1:56 AM | Link to this

Man, nothing can be funnier than Reese insinuating that somehow Ray and I are more culpable for the failures of Billy Knight, than the man himself.

OK, so unless I misread what you posted, Billy has screwed up multiple times. And our desire to leverage our imbalanced, multitude of redundant players, in exchange for legitimate complimentary parts, is somehow indicative that WE are responsible for this franchise’s decade-long failings.

Wow, that’s a hell of a reach. Again, and for the final time, I am not advocating GIVING Josh Smith away. I am not even recommending trading him. I am suggesting that this team will never be a potential Eastern Conference winner, with the current make up of 4 2nd team PG’s, 9 forwards, and a couple of NBDL centers. So, if it takes trading Josh Smith, to obtain a legitimate center, who can provide us with the presence that our losing record, over the last three years, clearly demands, then the Hawks should be OPEN to it (so quit confusing OPEN with NEED or MUST).

You haven’t acknowledged, at all, the argument or reality that much greater talents than Josh Smith have been traded, in a franchises’ efforts to win a championship.

You just keep hugging Smoove’s jock, like a jilted girlfriend, without looking at how to best move this team forward.

So, without a legitimate center, and ongoing question marks at the point guard (not unlike the last four years we’ve been having this discussion), and with no first round draft pick, as we’re on a collision course to give Phoenix a top-5 pick next summer, how do you plan on building a winner Josh Smith, if he gets offered a max contract?

Seriously, please tell me how this roster, unchanged for next year, without it’s well-earned lottery pick, which Billy gave away for no good reason, becomes a legitimate threat for coming out of the East, because Josh Smith is a fantasy stat stuffer……..

If he’s so damn valuable, please tell me how we lost to an average Milwaukee team, when he had the best night of his life (and Bogut had a career game against the relative midgets that make up our post players).

Again, Philly fans had a much greater gripe, when they traded AI. But they weren’t winning with him. So did the ‘Wolves’ fans, when Glen Taylor gave up KG.

Do you want to win, or spend the next 5-10 years watching Smoove highlights, and losing?

This team needs competitive balance. No one is untouchable on a team that has 70 games in the last 3 years. Until Smoove starts hitting 40% of his 3’s, or acknowledges that he should quit firing up 1 in 5’s, I’ll continue to believe that he’s more interested in being a star, than a part of a winning team.

And me, I’d rather watch a winner, like a Detroit or a San Antonio, than watch a Dominique Wanna-Be!!!!!!

By CJ

November 20, 2007 2:02 AM | Link to this

First move this team needs to do is can Woodie and get a proven commondity. His coaching is wildly inconsistent…and it nets the same results. Hortford in his limited career has pretty much invalidated Sheldon as a complete bust and waste of a pick. Al is just a servicable big for D and rebounds…occasional put back…don’t expect turnaround jumpers in the post. This team could use a hardnosed center..b/c ZaZa is a bench player…he never was a bonafide starter. That leaves the focus on SF and PG for offense in addition to Johnson. So either Williams or Smith has to go….I say Williams. Smith will get better with “good” coaching..more confidence and greater responsibility. And then focus on PG again..with AC holding it down until a trade can go down.

By mykhalc

November 20, 2007 3:07 AM | Link to this

John, you had me thinkin’ about a SJ for MW trade. the only reason i would not do it would be because of WOODSON!! i KNOW WOODSON would not get the play from SJACK that NELLIE gets outta him. as you know, cats LOVE playin’ for NELLIE!! SJ playin’ for WOODSON would be a catastrophe waitin’ to happen!! think JSMITH times 100!!!LOL

but from a pure talent perspective i’d take SJ over MW ‘right now’. now my opinion might change by year end, if ya know what i’m sayin’!!! but as we both know, we are just talkin’ hypothetical. but we sure could use a VET with his attitude and game, less the drama of course!!! ok, back to reality!!!LOL

By mykhalc

November 20, 2007 3:24 AM | Link to this

CJ, looks like you’ve been watchin’ HORFORD with your eyes closed too!!LOL just a serviceable BIG!! now that’s laughable!!!

By Professor

November 20, 2007 6:33 AM | Link to this

I like JS, but I’m tired of him following a night like 38 pts with a night like 13 pts. Lets see what he does tonight. He is only like 21 right? I just dont see this team being effective with keeping JJ and JS at max contracts. You are basically saying that these two have to carry you and I havent seen anything from the spirit group to think that they want to spend that much money anyway. I do like Acie, and I think he is the PG the Hawks need, I just think in order for the Hawks to be effective this year, hes going to have to just play and take his lumps. Its not like the Hawks are winning anyway. Woodson should just let him play and do his thing. Yeah he’ll make some mistakes, but he is clearly not playing the same game he played in college. I think he needs to be somewhere in the middle. He has a much better jumpshot then I thought he would have and he has already shown that he can drive to the hole at will. I still think that Horford and ZaZa need to start together to give the Hawks the best chance at attacking the boards. Although he doesnt like to, ZaZa has the capability to pull down boards and he could free up Horford even more. I also think Horford will be much more effective at his natural position, as will JS at SF. Marvin can do what he does off the bench and still get around the same minutes. JJ is JJ, but its does seem like the Hawks are more effective when he dishes a little as well as scores.

By A Thinking Fan

November 20, 2007 7:15 AM | Link to this

Losing brings out all of this “BAD” Blog commentary. We have more wannabe GMs on this site then Hawks have wins. I’ve read more bad trade ideas here than in a Wall Street scam newsletter.

Please win Hawks so we can get back to talkin’ B-ball again!

SPIRIT = Broke & Cash Poor!

By smartguy

November 20, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

We will win tonight, but then we will lose two more. At this blistering pace, we will be lucky to hit thirty wins again!

My frustration is quickly turning from Woody to the Spirit. Those guys really suck.

By Greg

November 20, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this

We have to much misplaced talent, this is why we can’t win. We continue to bring player in and conform them to a position oppose to allowing them to play their natural position JSmith is a natural 3, Al Horford is a natural 4, Zaza is a natural 4, and MWilliams is a natural 3, keep the best of the bunch and trade the other 2 for a natural 5. We got our leading rebounder (Al) coming off the bench. How crazy is that. We keep losing games because we don’t rebound and defend the paint, and the guy we drafted to do it is playing out of place or on the bench during crucial stretched of the game.

By doc

November 20, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this

smartguy, that has been atf and my theme for the last two years. it starts ay the top, the rest is just trickle down. dude, it is nba on an nhl budget. it wont work unless just maybe you had the luck and wisdom of the trailblazers. like roy falling to them after getting aldridge earlier in the draft of 2006.

still early enough to see something happen right as someone pointed out in what transpired at toronto last year. guess what? that took the gm telling his coach if he didnt find a way to play a good rookie and have trust in him his arss was out of here. at some point woody will have to really change his comments and approach or he will fall into the same category, what he holds onto hasnt worked yet, might as well try somethng else before it is too late. what does he have to lose. notta!

By roan st

November 20, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

We must have a small gang of billy knight jr.’s on this blog. I don’t remember all the names but to those who think the hawks would be foolish to give up one of our wings for a young center like biedrens….. ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME! Some of you guys are in denial but the truth is one of the two between josh smith and marvin must go at some point. And you guys want to sit there and tell us that we shouldn’t try and trade one now to get a young legit center. WHY? This frontcourt has already proven failure- marvin, josh smith, and horford. Why? Because they are undersized and get dominated by just about every team in the league. Yes they are all individually talented but way undersized. I want all you fellas to think about this again and please tell me why we would be foolish, if given the opportunity, to trade smith or marvin for biedrens? A new frontcourt of marvin or josh, horford, and biedrens would be the ticket boys. Horford and biedrens working together down low cleaning up the glass and blocking shots would make us a new force in the east. But I guess some of you would rather keep the status quo and keep winning at our .333 clip.

By A Thinking Fan

November 20, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this

Doc & Roan st I believe the SPIRIT, BK & WOODY, & some of the PLAYERS have plants on here to try & keep the onus off of them. Where in the heck is Floze/Belkin? He showed-up one game night and hasn’t been back since or maybe changed is call name. Anyway they all try to muddle the truth and distort the reality of the situation…

SPIRIT = BROKE & CASH POOR!!!

By Dan

November 20, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

How can Woodson survive this? I am going to assume the Hawks will be 3 and 7 after tonight’s game. Is the ownership group really going to sit there and take another 30 win season. If that happens I don’t want to hear any more of this “We’ve turned the corner” bullsh#t that they have been spewing since the beginning of last season.

Also, no moves were made this offseason to help the team. No vet to bang in the paint. No nothing…

I’m sorry…I hate saying this after only 9 games, but this team is the same as last year. They seem content to just play hard and lose by 2 or 3 points. Wins are all that matter.

Woodson needs to go. I don’t like calling for someone’s head, but I don’t see any other way. Even if the Hawks manage to win tonight, we all know they will lose their next two or three games. This team never sustains anything, except for their losing ways.

By Astro Joe

November 20, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

Why are the Patriots considered a “dynasty” in the NFL but the Spurs supposedly have to win another to get the same status? Haven’t they both won 3 titles in like 5-6 years? Don’t they both have great coaches and at least 1 future HOFer? Why is it that the Pats get crazy love while Spurs are typically behind teams like Suns, Mavs & even Heat in the NBA? Is it just a matter of the size of the city/market (Boston vs. San Antonio)?

Sekou, I disagree with your article, I think the Spurs are a NBA dynasty. They are likely 1 unbelievable Derek Fisher shot away from 4 titles.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 20, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Trade Marvin for Biedrins straight up.Its easier to replace a jump shooter vs a stat stuffer. Throw in Sheldon if it will make the deal happen.Josh is our most valuable trade piece,but im thinkn of a

sf-jsmoove pf-Horford C-biedrins

frontcourt-that would be just what we needed. I will live with josh going 1-5 on 3’s every game -why? because he does so many other things.

By hawks-4-1

November 20, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

IMUS WRITE so our starting line up basically only one shooter (law out). Zone defense gonna kill us.

By hawks-4-life

November 20, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Man hawks talk went dead…hopefully they win but starting to sip the koolaide..no longer drinking….

By hawks-4-life

November 20, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

Man hawks talk went dead…hopefully they win but im starting to sip the koolaide..no longer drinking….

By I.MUS WRITE

November 20, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

HAWKS-4life we have shooters on the roster.I think given consistent minutes Salim can give u between 12 and 15 a game, I think marvin is putting up like 17 a game. I know that between jj,acie,salim and chills we can make up for marvins pts. Aslo in the process u get a young legit center this one is a no brainer. Marvin /Sheldon for Biedrins = all day long.I have watched all the games this season and honestly marvin disappears from time to time.Look at the milwaukee game-I think marvin had 10 points. if Biedrins was playn center - Bogut and company may not have been as effective.We loss that game mostly in the paint-(final score 101-96)You have to give some to get some bro.-Give me a defensive center with scoring ability and a big upside over a jumpshooter with questionable off the dribble moves and poor rebounding skills. ZONE …. pulleez… This is the NBA not the rec league dawg.

By HB Ando

November 20, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

OK, I don’t want to be a hypocrite, so I’m going to call myself out. I continue to put pressure on Josh Smith to play smarter and not get sucked into settling for jumpers, which is just what other teams want him to do. And it may sound like I don’t appreciate what he DOES do well, which is everything but long range shooting.

So let’s be honest. When I go to the game tonight, his play is one of the primary things I’m looking forward to watching. It will be interesting to see if the Spurs put Bowen on Josh or Joe. Whoever it is will have one dirty defender in their jock, all night long. And most folks don’t put up pretty numbers with Bowen grabbing them all night.

Horford defending Duncan is another matchup that should be really cool to watch. And Ginobili is back to his level of play from 2 years ago, since he didn’t play for his national team this summer, and got healthy. He’s going to be a b*** to matchup with.

Biggest problem is that we have plausible solution for containing Parker’s dribble penetration.

I don’t think we match up very well here (hell, who does against the Spurs). But it will be interesting to see how fight there is in the dog tonight.

So, for today, I take off my amateur GM cap, and quit worrying about what we might or might not do a year from now, to take this team to a better level. And I simply look forward to going to the game, eating a pretzel and a slice, drinking some beer, shooting the hoops’ breeze with Jhan and Doc, and watching the Atlanta Hawks.

(It would not hurt my feelings if Josh Smith had a monster night and DID NOT attempt a single 3-pointer; in fact, I would be hugely impressed by the very smartness of such a game).

By HB Ando

November 20, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

And one last thing: on a variation of a phrase that many of your mothers and wives have said to you, which is, “nothing good ever happens after midnight”, the same can be applied to posts between 12 and 3 AM. There is typically liquor involved (especially if the Thanksgiving holiday started on a Monday), and some times you wake up the next day and realize you pulled a bit of an Andro.

Oops.

By JohnGTFan

November 20, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

I just read a hilarious article by the San Antonio Express News. There is a real “quick one” over there that says Woodson is the “perfect coach” to develop Atlanta’s gifted, young talent. WOW

By DekaturKing

November 20, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

If Josh Smith is Traded, I would like to who is going to play defense? I know we need a center who can ball but who the hell is out there? Nobody is giving away GOOD center’s that I know of.

By Ramon

November 20, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

I will say this one thing, when MJ and Pippen came in the league, their jumper SUCKED. MJ’s was streaky AT BEST. When Glen Robinson and Glen Rice entered the league, they both could shoot with the best of their position. Later on in all four of their careers, MJ and Pippen’s shooting improved A LOT. Although Glen Robinson and Rice could still score when needed, neither of them brought a high intensity to the game. Which ended up having more of a NEGATIVE affect on the game, than their scoring had positive.

What I’m trying to say is, it will be a lot easier for Smooth to learn how to shoot better, than it will be for Marvin’s intensity to increase. Someone said with a line up of Smooth, Horford, and Beidrin would leave not enough shooters on the team. However, if you look at the Spurs, for a few years Tony Parker couldn’t shoot for anything (thats why the Lakers beat them every year). So the roster they had with Parker, Ginobli, Bowen, Duncan, and Rasto (or Muhammed) truly didn’t have but one (some nights two because Bowen was streaky and Brent Barry came off the bench) outside shooter at the most.

With Law and JJ in the line up, the Hawks have 2 shooters who can truly score. And if Smooth post up game is improving, wouldn’t that lead to MORE mismatches if he’s able to post the other team’s 3 consistently. That could almost make way for a triangle offense to be used in the half court.

And I’m just curious, but how do any one even know Beidrin is AVAILABLE? If he’s so great, and already putting up decent numbers, I’m quite sure Golden State thinks of him even more than the Lakers think of Bynum. So if he’s not available, whats the next step? Because this team doesn’t NEED a ‘dominating’ center, this team needs a serviceable defensive minded center. And the team needs help on the offensive end from either a new coach, or a new system from one a new assistant.

In the league NOW, there are 3 (4 at most) dominating centers, and I’m sure neither of those are going ANYWHERE. The Hawks can make the playoffs with THIS roster, maybe not with this coach, but with THIS roster. Personally, I think Soloman should be used at least 8-13 minutes a game. In some stretches, I would love to see JJ, Marvin, Smooth, Jones, and Horford and see what happens.

Every one says Horford is too small, but Elton Brand hasn’t had that problem (and Brand played center before joining Clippers).

I will say one last thing, the longer Woodson keep getting in to it with players (Salim, Smooth, AJ, Marvin, possibly JJ, and i KNOW Antoine Walker and Harrington when they were here), the less likely ANY decent VETERAN will want to come here.

By SalimFan

November 20, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Man I just do not have the energy to bash the hawks right now. If they don’t win tonight I can’t critique them anymore I refuse to waste energy on a lost cause. I’ll just go back to being a pistons fan who happens to be from Georgia. I know that sounds harsh but do you know how much positive energy being a hawks fan sucks out of you? After a while there will be nothing left to talk about if they keep loosing like this.

I could see if woodsen had the best possible lineup on the floor at all times but he can’t even seem to get that right.

By SalimFan

November 20, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

If it gets clse to the trade deadline and we are doing very horrible I see no other option than Uniting Kobe and Joe Johnson. We can Trade Shelden williams, Josh Childress, Tyronne Lue, Anthony Johnson, And Solomon jones In a three team deal in order to get kobe.

It’s perfect because kobe comes to a team that still has it’s core and a pretty good bench.

By SalimFan

November 20, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

Shoot you could even throw in Lorenzen Wright And Speedy Claxton were not using them but somone else will. I don’t care if it takes five teams. If The celtics could get two superstare then I know we can get one.

By MsDee

November 20, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

The problem with this team is not the fact that we NEED a BIG CENTER or a TOP PG,(we have had several opportunities to win games playing against other teams top centers “BOGUT” for one)..The problem with this team is not the fact that we need to trade anybody to make us get to the playoffs,(we have quality,athletic,running guys w/ different skills at different positions)…The problem with this team IS that we need a new coach, who knows how to/when to use the guys on his team, a coach who can set his top players up to make it hard for the opposing team, a coach who knows who is on and who is off, a coach with new ideas, new offensive plays..The other problem with this team IS the players need to learn to TRUST each other, USE each other skills to create for a better shot opportunity, learn how to rebound,(boxing out as a team, not just Horford), learn how to draw fouls instead of jumping away from contact Joe Johnson, know when to drive and when to shoot the hot jumper Marvin Williams, learn when to pass and when to shoot, Salim, learn when to block a shot for entertainment and when to keep it in play, Josh Smith, learn when to give an assits and when to take it yourself, Acie, learn when to run the ball and when to slow it up, TLue..And most of all..Learn how to make all clutch free throws as a team!! Seattle game would have been over if JChill would have made both free throws instead of 1. If we could make those corrections, we would see more W”s than L’s!!

By SalimFan

November 20, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

If they Keep loosing Then I want kobe. And i’ll E-mail ESPN everyday until they put on spotscenter that atlanta wants kobe. We need a winner to teach the youngsters how to win. Then they’ll all be winners and know how to close out games the right way.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 20, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

Salim fan That trade would’nt get us Lamar Odom much less Kobe.

By SalimFan

November 20, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

If they can trade KWAME BROWN for CARON BUTLER Than anything is possibe for the lakers management. Besides we just have to find a good third team with a piece that they are willing to offer like francis going to L.A

By JohnGTFan

November 20, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

People dreaming of Kobe…come on..it’s like believing Vick will play for the Falcons again. Kobe would never come to ATL as long as BK and Woodson are here…not to mention this ownership.

By doc

November 20, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

ando you have gone soft man. it will be fun to sit next to soft and cuddly ando. my computer is down for your number, call me. assume same time, same place. ready to drink beer, eat pizza, peanuts and pretzels and the voice is back so i am ready for the zebras. got blog z at my back man.

By Astro Joe

November 20, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Ando, you’re kidding, right? Pop is not walking into this game thinking “we have to shut down Josh Smith to win this game”. What Smith needs to do is try to take Duncan off the dribble and use his quickness (although Duncan is deceptively quick himself). If Smith can manage to get the Big Fundamental in foul trouble, then Pop will be forced to move Bowen to Smith and JJ/Marvin will work against Finley/Ginobli. We could create match-up problems for the Spurs if we execute properly.

By The Flash

November 20, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

I still say that the most tradeable player, if LA really wants to move Kobe, is JJ.

I no longer believe that Bynum could be part of such a deal. The kid is too good.

I also think that Kobe has been brought back down to earth a tad by how well the team plays without him. Might even make him willing to stay without acting out (hogging the ball and disrespecting his teammates and the beauty of the Triangle).

However, if LA still feels compelled to move Kobe, and Chicago really wants him, there still might be a multi-player deal here to be made.

I think Josh’s tweener size/style/skill set might make him difficult for other teams, not just the Hawks, to fit him into a system that works. I am not sure that he would bring the type of value Ando and others project. No harm in trying, however.

Astro, you were just trying to provoke me with that Belkin thing, right? Almost worked, but even Thinkingman ain’t buying that scenario, which, by the way, is very dark, I mean extremely, extremely dark.

By Hawksville Resident

November 20, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

I echo a lot of the earlier stated positions..The Seattle game was a hard one to lose, but who would of called any wilkins not named Dominic scoring over 40 in Atlanta?? Good for him, bad for the Hawks. I knew after that double OT heartbreaker that we were going to lose to Milwaukee, because we are not tough enough mentally and that does come form coaching. Everybody’s blaming the Spirit as a whole, but the fact of the matter is the Thrashers are winning… They won their division last year, got off to a slow start, fired their coach and now are back to their winning ways.. How can the Spirit make moves and get everything right with the Thrash and continue to do nothing about our Hawks..

By fudd21

November 20, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

I-MUS If you are going to suggest a trade, then suggest one that makes sense. GS already has a bunch of 6’7 to 6’9 (S. Jackson, Al Harrington, Matt Barnes, Brandon Wright, Austin Croshere) guys just like the Hawks. Why on earth would they even think of giving away a center and a point guard for more 6’8 guys.

By Astro Joe

November 20, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

Flash, who me provoke? Shutter the thought.

Seriously, do you think that Belkin would support the removal and replacement of a Head Coach with the other owners at this stage of the divorce? I think dude punted with the Thrashers… I don’t see him being as disinterested in the decisions about the Hawks.

By HB Ando

November 20, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Astro, I don’t think there’s a chance in hell that Duncan is guarding Smith tonight. They’ll put Bowen on him before they do that, or Bass. Duncan will be guarding Horford, when they go small, and Elson will guard Zaza when they go big. And Zaza may not see big minutes anyway, if we want to impose our athleticism on them.

If we go small, with Horford at the 5, Smith at the 4, and Marvin at the 3, they’ll likely have Bowen on Smith, Finley on Marvin and Ginobili on JJ. And I still don’t see who we have that can match up with Parker’s penetration, so expect a big night from the Frenchman.

Assuming Duncan will get the Smith assignment is shaky at best.

But you’ll see it on TV, and I’ll be there, so we can assess how the match ups squared up when the carnage is over.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 20, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Fudd 21- If you are going to ask that question-why not ask Nelly why they signed MBenga to play center when they already have Biendris and Pat O’brien. This tells me that Biedrins is expendable or just does’nt fit what GS is looking for. Who the hell cares why they might wanna trade AB-the fact of the matter is the guy is a 6’11 pogo stick(quick ups) who scores and defends,If marvin and shellz is all it takes pull the trigger. Why wouldnt GS want Marvin he is the type of guy that could fit nicely into GS jump shot heavy offense.Have you been watching the games -all Marvin does is shoot the rock…

What team would’nt want that-do your homework. I did’nt say elllis in that trade scenario- marv/Shells for AB

By reese

November 20, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

HB Ando, its all good, hopefully we provided a little bit of entertainment for the other bloggers.

By Astro Joe

November 20, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Ando, let’s assume Spurs start with Parker, Finley, Bowen, Duncan and Oberto. And we go with PG-du jour, JJ, Marvin, Smith & Zaza. Tell me who starts out with whom (Bass plays for Dallas, by the way).

I agree that when each team goes small, Duncan will be on Horford. But at tip-off, Smith will likely be matched up against Duncan and we need to exploit that immediately. Pop could start Ginobli or Barry, but I can;t see him changing his line-up to match-up against us… that’s not what Champions do. And that was Avery’s HUGE mistake against GS in the playoffs.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 20, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Did’nt GS trade Jason Richardson for Brandon wright….. HMMMMM…. J.Rich= 20 plus points a night B.Wright =6’10 210,unproven rookie who might be headed to the D league. Man anything is possible with GS.Although i like Bernelli’s game they traded J.Rich for 2 rookies….. Marvin does’nt look so bad huh?

By fudd21

November 20, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

SalimFan You are comical in your trade proposal. You want the hawks to get arguably the best player in the NBA for trash. Not one of the players you mentioned is even a legit starter on 80% of NBA rosters.

People if you are going to suggest a trade remember you have to give something the other team wants. If none of the players help/play for or team, why would they for the other team.

By fudd21

November 20, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

IMUS Even if GS does want to get rid of Biedrins, which I for one don’t think they do, it would be for more than Marvin. Have I been watching the games yes and know Marvin has a sweet stroke and that is all he does. But I also know that S. Jackson and AL Harrington do it better and Matt Barnes does it just as well but defends better. So for GS to be redundant and get another shooter is the type of move only BK would make. Shelden is a waste of conversation as far as i’m concerned.

By The Flash

November 20, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Astro, I would have to think that Belkin, if he thinks a change should be made, would not stand in the way of elevating Drew, at a minimum. Don’t really know that. Can say however that being vindictive is not his style.

I know others have a different perspective on the guy, but mine is that he would not hurt the team or its fans just to hurt the Spirit. No way.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 20, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Fudd 21 who voted you GM of the year? ……. O nobody…..-Since you feel like your basketball IQ is high,who would you trade for? Let me guess -you want Abduhr Rahim back right.

By Ben

November 20, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

LOL @ people thinking LA would do a deal where they get Childress + trash for Kobe. To get Kobe, we’d have to give Joe + Marvin / Smoove / Horford + trash.

The most famous NBA team of all time doesn’t take injured has-beens for a top 5 player of all time.

Idiots.

By CJ

November 20, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

I’m going to make an effort to watch the game tonight. I would join the arena crew but I haven’t been to a Hawks game in awhile…and with current situation I guess it will be a bit longer (wife doesn’t care for weekday games). Yes..Al is a good big..I wasn’t knocking him. He is what this team needed…but don’t make him out to be the Dwight Howard. I’m certain Woody will find some way to minimize their chances of winning.

By Juice

November 20, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

The superstar of our team, who never complains, said that we need someone else, a proven veteran, even before the season began. Why are we shocked that the Hawks have a losing record?

By Samuel

November 20, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

Guys, Pretty good stuff. Sorry, I can’t blog much. I would love to catch the game tonight but im on my way to Mississippi.

Ando, much luv for your knowledge but man, trade Josh Smith. Did you recount that statement or what? What big out there outside of Shaq, Duncan, Howard or Yao is a potential Hall of Fammer.

I know Josh can be frustrating to watch but to me he is the only potential Hall of Fammer we got. Not even JJ has that kind of talent. The other night show what he is capable of. 38 points with the D he plays,WOW.

I said a couple of weeks back that I would trade JJ. I know he’s our go to guy and all but just think what we could get for him.

Yall, what about Ben Wallace for JJ straight up. The Bulls look bad right now and are probably gonna make a move soon. Wallace has seen his time cut with Thomas playing the way he is. They could play JJ at the 3. We get our defensive stopper. They both make big money don’t they?

And yes, the Spurs are a Dynasty.

By Dante

November 20, 2007 7:17 PM | Link to this

You guys are silly with your panic driven dumb trade ideas! LOL!

Hawks have alot of inexperienced talent…you’ve got to be patient and let that talent mature to a point where they learn how to win. Why would anybody trade a Marvin Williams or Josh Smith at 22 years old? That’s crazy, as both carry way too much upside to give up this soon!

Chill out!

By Ramon

November 20, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

Tell me why when Pop sits his starters down, Woody does the same thing? If you’re down by 20 shouldn’t you use that moment to make a RUN with your best line up (without ZAZA).

By curious

November 20, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this

I would love to see Woody take the ball out off TP hands. Is he just going to continue to let AJ get slow roasted? No double team just straight layups for Parker. The Spurs clog the paint and the Hawks look like they never seen defense before. This man has lost this team. Someone needs to say it JJ is not a leader by example or vocally. I am starting to lose respect for him or is he trying to get Woody fired.

By Clyde

November 20, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

Enough is enough.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Ryder

November 20, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

It’s simple curious, Atlanta has stopped listening to Woodson. They are constantly complaining for leadership which means it’s not coming from the head coach. Much like the Thrashers they are desperate for a new voice, someone who may not be experienced but something fresh. Larry Drew is that person, that’s why they didn’t let him talk to other teams in the offseason.

Face it based on the upcoming schedule who can honestly admit they see the Hawks winning another game in the near future?

This team has quit, just like the Thrashers quit on Hartley because of his old school ways. They need a voice that they will respect.

Woodson has no concept of how to manage a lineup. In addition, this unit is constantly confused by his matchups. Of course management will allow this to go on until Atlanta is 3-20.

By CJ

November 20, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

Dante..no disrespect man

“Marvin Williams or Josh Smith at 22 years old?”

By jj

November 20, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this

man josh smith is the streakiest player in the league. He can have one great game then become the worst player in the league. I did not want to say it but he has to be traded for a true center. Josh has officially become expendable.

By CJ

November 20, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

Don’t trade Smith before a REAL coach is running the show. People criticize the players but what about Woody. I think Josh is trying to hard because his coach doesn’t have a clue. It’s bound to cause inconstencies.

By curious

November 20, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

Everybody on here is streaky. He is great one game you love him. Next game trade him. The only consistent thing about the Hawks team is insconsistency. Which usually points to coaching. Sorry, Woody’s offense is consistent also. I will tell you this someone was supposed to lay TP on his but. Woody doesn’t put JS on Duncan so he can help weakside. A great coach like Pop has Oberto stay outside and dive for off. rebounds. Woody didn’t change to a zone a trap, double team. Anything would of been better that letting AJ and Chill getting destroyed like that. Did anyone else notice anytime Woody is about to get fired TLue gets hurt?

By roan st

November 20, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

Josh smith might be a potential ” hall of fammer” but he certainly isn’t a potential hall of famer. Where are all the we can’t trade josh smith because he is our hero people at tonight. He looked terrible tonight shooting a gaudy 18% (3-16) from the field. If we could get a good young defensive center then I would trade him in a heart beat. He is a great weak side defender but in no way does he guard the paint. If that were so then why did tony parker put on a lay up exibition tonight. Because we don’t have a defensive center to go along with our young power forward in horford. WE NEED A CENTER NOW! And if that means trading josh smith then that would be a good move to make. Josh Smith makes a few highlight plays and gets people excited but is wildly inconsistent and will never be true leader. We have to get rid of one of these damn wings (or should I say tweeners) soon if we want to compete.

By Christopher Jairrels

November 20, 2007 9:57 PM | Link to this

Listening to Woody..same old stuff. Players not trying hard enough…injuries (like all those backup PG’s would have made a difference)…confused and shrugging shoulders. Where have we seen this before.

By THE Hawks Fan

November 20, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

This team is Tainted with a eery feeling. Body Language says everything. There are some bad things going on. Sekou mentioned the eery feeling in the locker room after the last game. It showed on the floor BIG TIME tonight. 1 player goes on the break with another player ahead and no lead out pass to him drives on gets fouled. Player makes freethrow looks to give player that was ahead the customary “dap” after the freethrow to be given a look of whatever and left hangin. Another player not even paying attention at all in the timeouts. Just looking around. You can bring Popps to Atlanta, but with these same players he would bomb as a coach too. Players mad about money, players mad about WHO is on the team. There is surely to be a LOCKOUT in 2009. So it looms over these guys. The Spirit situation has to be resolved before we get anykind of stability. Mr. West needs quick insertion into the game. I would say about the 6 min mark. His defense is his offense. But he has to play early to control his fouls.

By hookcur

November 20, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

3-7, on the way to another 25 or 30 win season. I wonder who Phoenix will take with the much-delayed lottery pick? It should be in the top two or three.

Woody is a joke but compared to the fools above him, he’s a genius.

By roan st

November 20, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Hawks fan, I concur that something doesn’t seem to be right with this team. Did anyone else notice what kevin willis said when asked what the hawks needed to do to get this thing turned around? He made a reference about guys needing to get along better. HMMMN. Sekou talked about an eery feeling in the locker room the other night. Is this team about to implode or what? I’m starting to believe that something is brewing here and it ain’t good.

By Clyde

November 20, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

I would rather watch the sorry a$$ Falcons than the Hawks. I told yall 3 years ago Woody needs to go but people kept saying give him time. Where are those people now? You can’t hide behind a coach that is 110 games under .500.

The Spirit group needs to stop playing games with thier fans and get rid of Billy and Woody today. And when I say today I mean before midnight. This team is flat out S-O-R-R-Y!!!

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By vdunkndunk

November 20, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this

Woody must be fired immediately, Josh Smith must be traded immediately.

Right now we could put Josh Smith together with a bunch of expiring contracts (AJ, Lue, Lo W) and maybe get something good for him. We could even throw in Zaza or Shelden or even Chill if the guy we were trading for was good enough to warrant it.

Now is the time to cash in on Josh Smith, before we overpay or lose him for nothing or get less than full value when he hits restricted free agency.

Fire Woody! Trade Josh! Fire Woody!

By smartguy

November 20, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

Woody is terrible.

I still love Smooth, even if he has ten more bad games worse than this one.

As far as centers, somebody actually name one that we could get or could have gotten? How about Miki Moore, who signed with the Kings? Did ya’ll see how much they paid that guy? Same with Ben Wallace; sacrifice four bad years for one good one? The players we have are the players we have. Stop talking about who we need, or who we don’t have, and start playing with what we already have. The only good thing about our franchise right now is the players.

Somebody slap that Gearon cat.

By travis

November 20, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

all of this talk before the season began about them working out together a month before reporting to camp. about how good they looked during preseason was all bs. Woody has to go, the team has stop listening to him. I said back in July that they would be about 8-32 by the allstar break. I was hyped on them at the beg. of the season, but they are the same ole hawks. I am done until they get rid of woody.

By Joe

November 20, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this

I don’t usually bash a coach….but the Thrashers got rid of a winning coach and we continue to hold on to Mike Woodson? Why? He may be a great assistant but he is not the coach to guide this team. We need a coaching change now, before it is too late!!! Josh Smith need to be locked up now, ATL doesn’t want to get in a bidding war for their second best player!!!

By kwooden1

November 20, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

I listened to part of the game tonight and heard the stadiumn empty on Josh Smith’s two missed shots. I’m not surprised at all that the Hawks lost and I’m also not surprise that they fought hard to come back. I think I have an idea about what Sekou meant by an awkward vibe in the locker room after the loss to Milwaukee. I think they can’t understand why it’s so hard for them to win games. They know that they are all have individual talent, but they can’t seem to put it together on a night in and night out basis. (fustrated and confused) The team does not excute on the offensive end, which reflects in their poor defense. (lack of energy for stretches) These last few losses have hurt them emotionally but its the coaching staffs job to get them back focused. We all know they are supposed to push the ball but when I see the games their either not doing it or Josh Smith is doing it. When they do push the ball, they appear rushed. This tells me that their not confident in what their doing, i.e. coaching staff problem. Sekou, if you want players to play for each other then they are going to have to pass the ball to each other. Each player is going to have to believe they will get theirs in the end. This team doesn’t seem to have an offensive system that helps them do that, they just run a lot of one on one isolation sets. If they are running a motion offensive then, its even worse because their not listening. I hope that the staff can really change in the next few weeks or get changed by ownership. I think with the right system, these players can really improve and possibly make the playoffs this year, but more realistically next year.

GO HAWKS!

By ray

November 20, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

Reese, you quoted me and still took it out of context. How do you manage to do that? I figure you’re just picking a fight, but I’ll indulge you anyway.

Look at the quote again: The argument is fluid. It goes in all directions. THE ARGUMENT is fluid, as in the arugment as a whole about Josh Smith. Not YOUR argument, not YOUR SIDE of the argument. THE ARGUMENT by itself. You know, the argument that several people were contributing. Since so many people had something to say about it, I said that it was fluid, and went in all directions. Once AGAIN, I was talking about the argument itself, not YOU. I then went on to say that YOU certainly had valid points in your contribution to the argument. I see now that where I typed 3 or so sentences, I should’ve typed 2 paragraphs and then maybe you wouldn’t have misunderstood me. Who knows.

As for comparing Ando and myself to Knight, that’s just an insult, simple and pure. Not once have either of us suggested that Smith be handled like other talented Hawks players in the past. Not to mention, those deals were done for completely different reasons and under different circumstances. I didn’t agree with most of them either. You choose to continue to insinuate that we want Smith out of here, and not just out of here, but out for nothing in return. That’s a bold-faced lie if you come right out and say it. As for the trade talk, I said we should agree to disagree. And so I have no more to say about it to you. Misunderstanding a person’s statements is one thing. Choosing to twist context and intention, that’s just libel.

I like Smith a great deal. In fact, there’s only a couple guys on the team I don’t care for. The rest of them, I like plenty. They’re great guys. There’s a hell of a lot more good than bad, that’s for certain. But we can’t get past one thing: either he or Marvin will go at some point. Emotionally, sentimentally, it will hurt either way. This is a business.

By Ramon

November 20, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

If this same Spur’s front court gave Lebron problems, why would so many people be harsh on Smooth? This is just evidence of what happens when a team has a coach who has a SYSTEM!!! The Hawks have NO system, except to just PLAY.

If the Hawks don’t have PLAYS and SETS that they run, they will never be able to run a half court offense against a team like the Spurs. If Hubie Brown didn’t retire for good, he would be the PERFECT match for this team. I still say go after Mark Jackson and see what he can do. Kiki wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

By CJ

November 21, 2007 12:11 AM | Link to this

Kwooden1 is right. All this make believe about giving them more time and a turn is around the corner is never going to happen until a regime change occurs.

By HB Ando

November 21, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

Fellas, that was a clinic. With Orlando on the Spurs schedule for tomorrow night, Pop played his studs just enough to keep this team at bay. There simply was never a moment when they seriously feared the Hawks.

I said our worst match up was Parker, and he went for 31 and 9. This game was the rough equivalent of someone bouncing a cat toy, at the end of a stick, for the feline that cannot quit swiping at it, but has no chance of snatching the prize.

Look, it’s the Spurs, so how ticked can you be that they beat us? But the method in which Pop only played his stars, for limited minutes, as long as he was comfortable that he could keep the Hawks out of reach, was a clinic. Kind of like letting the JV scrimmage the varsity. Fourth quarter, when we got to within 14, he simply put Parker back in. We hovered in the 10-14 range, and he felt moved to bring Duncan back in. And then it was over. Period. There was never a moment where the Hawks were legitimately in this game.

Now we’re 3-7. Just like the last three years, we can’t defend legitimate PG’s, from dribble penetration. And we can’t shut down the paint. Sound familiar?

Look, I don’t think Woody is the guy to take this team to the next level. And I’m certain that they’ve been completely minimized, roster-wise, by Billy’s mind-boggling draft decisions. But I don’t see how any coach can make this mis-matched roster a legit contender. And, without a first round draft pick, which will likely be a high lottery pick for Phoenix, I don’t see any other way to shake it up, ‘cept for making some trades.

Been saying it since this summer: this is not a playoff team; even in the woefully weak Eastern Conference. Time to acknowledge Joe Johnson’s subtle reference to the lack of veteran acquisitions. Time to make some bold moves, even if we have to wait until the summer, to maximize a sign-and-trade with either Josh or Josh, or both.

The recipe that is this team is not built to win, on a nightly basis. The sooner that the owners, and front office (led by the mind-bogglingly incompetant Billy Knight), acknowledge they’ve got to use the assets they have, to balance things out (geez, I’m seriously sick of saying the same thing for 3 years), the sooner we can generate some hope for the future.

I feel for poor Al Horford, as he is given minutes at the five, tomorrow night, against the 100+ pound heavier Shaq (Myc, you said he’s our best solution at the five, so stand by your man, while he’s being consumed as a Shaq-Snack).

I see a pounding tomorrow night.

Then we’re 3-8.

Ouch.

By mykhalc

November 21, 2007 2:31 AM | Link to this

ANDO, you know i’m standin’ by my boy AH!!!! he might go down tomorrow against the BIG FELLA but he won’t be floppin’!!!!LOL

By Dante

November 21, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

So we lose to last season’s NBA champs with no PG running the team….and everyone still is in such a panic 10 games into an 82 game season….

Why is everyone so surprised? This is the same team that lost 20 more games than it won last year, except we added two very talented rookies to the mix…but FYI rookies take time to learn the game, and the most important one we added(IMO Acie Law) is out hurt….

My biggest problem with Knight is he failed to realize the importance of the PG position, and just now addressed it this year when he lucked into Law….but rookies take time to learn this difficult position…

And LOL at the thought we can’t keep Josh and Marvin…depth is crucial to any team that wants to go far into the playoffs….you will see both of these guys evolve more and more once they get a true PG running the show…

Chill!

By Clark

November 21, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Pachulia and Anthony Johnson got completely schooled last night. I recognize that Johnson was only playing so much because our entire squadron of PGs was hurt, but AJ killed us by letting Parker go by him every time down the floor. And Pachulia was completely MIA in terms of protecting the rim.

This team shouldn’t be 3-7. If we lose tonight, there should be some serious talk about a new coach. This team has no clear rotation, no clear offensive strategy, and can’t run a fast break. Woodson’s had plenty of time, and we shouldn’t let this season get away from us.

On a different note: as much as Marvin is starting to emerge (he is now one of the best midrange jump-shooters in the league), it kills me to watch CP3, who’s now clearly one of the 10 or 15 best players in the league. It’s so much fun to watch him create for other players and play incredible D. But Acie looks like he’ll be decent, and he’s a pretty good defender.

By Dante

November 21, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

Good post Clark.

We could paly alot of “what if” games…Imagine this one….Hawks with CP3 or Deron Williams running the point instead of Marvin, and Brandon Roy instead of Shelden “The Stiff” Williams in our rotation…we would be the Phoenix Suns of the East.

By Dante

November 21, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

Good post Clark.

We could play alot of “what if” games…Imagine this one….Hawks with CP3 or Deron Williams running the point instead of Marvin, and Brandon Roy instead of Shelden “The Stiff” Williams in our rotation…we would be the Phoenix Suns of the East.

By Gcode

November 21, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Listen, as a former D-1 football player, (Couldn’t make the cut in the league) there is one and only one thing that seperates athletes, THE MENTAL. At the highest level, everyone runs a 4.4, bench presses 350+, squats 425, etc., but the mental sorts the super stars from the “blooper stars.” Coach Woodson has lost the team. When I experienced a coaching change, new energy, new methodology, and a new belief was experienced. We went from 3-8 to 10-2, winning a bowl game with the new coach. My point is this, coaches preach philosophies in practice, but when you continue losing, players stop believing the system and as a matter of fact start questioning it. The Hawks will not experience a change until they get rid of Woody. Case and point, the Orlando Magic of this year, the Lakers when Phil came in, the Cowboys of this year. Coaching changes mean alot to players’ mental. You can look at the body language of the players going into the timeouts.

By Professor

November 22, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

Gcode, you hit the nail on the head. At this level its all about heart. How bad you want it. With a new coach comes a new outlook, a chance for players in Woodson’s doghouse to emerge and gain respect of the new coach. I do think Law is going to be a solid PG in this league, as well as Horford at PF. But I don’t think Woodson will be here when that happens. The same thing happened when Lebron James came to the Cavs. They stunk, and they had to get rid of Silas before they started winning. Who would have thought the Cavs could have made it to the Finals five years ago. You would have been laughed out of that state. A coaching change could bring the same thing to these Hawks in the coming years.

By Professor

November 22, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Another thing I don’t like about Woodson is that he lets the other team dictate what he is going to do instead of attacking the game and making the other team adjust. Not playing Salim because of matchup problems is stupid. If he is part of your team, play your game and make the other team do something about it. I dont see how its a matchup problem anyway when the other team is playing zone defense and all you are getting are jump shots. Hmmmmmmm…… I remember a long time ago in kindergarden when my teacher taught me that 1+1=2. Well if all you are getting are jumpshots, why wouldn’t you play one of your best jumpshooters who would have open jumpers at least one minute? At the very worst he would have made the other team come out their defensive set and freed up the rest of the team to drive to the basket more, but hey who am I to judge the Hawks. Im not a GM, Im not a coach, just someone with common sense.