Hawks

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 6:22 AM | Link to this

THE NEXT COUPLE OF GAMES THE COWBOYS SHOULD BE AT LEAST 7-6 IF NOT 8-5.

By Big G Money

November 16, 2007 6:27 AM | Link to this

Sekou, Glad you’re back (and by the way, we like it hot on the blog, so keep it coming - much appreciated). While we aren’t 9 games in, we are 7 games into an interesting season. On one hand, if everyone is healthy, it seems as though we can compete with anyone. On the other hand, if we fall back into our earlier tendancies of lackadaisical ball movement, walking into half court sets and creating our own new millennium version of Joe Johnson and the Johnsonaires, then we invariably lose.

Is that a players mindset that causes this or is it the coach and the plays he runs??

Also, it seemed that AJ was in the doghouse for wanting to be with his newborn. Could that be true? If so, that really sucks. Any insight?

By tb

November 16, 2007 6:31 AM | Link to this

I see a 5-3 run at least.

SS; interesting how you steered clear of the Woodson issue ;)

Talent deserves coaching. If it were me, Woodson would have twenty more games to make the most of the Hawks talent and install a comprehensive and innovative OFFive scheme.

The DEFive scheme seems to be coming along.

By loso

November 16, 2007 7:17 AM | Link to this

Sekou, Any news on Speedy?

By kwooden1

November 16, 2007 7:36 AM | Link to this

I would love a great run of 4-1 or 5-2 over the next few games, but what I really want to see is consistant energy and sound defense. They aren’t going to shoot as well as they did against Charlotte every game, so they have to learn to not get discouraged and keep working on defense. Even with the injuries they didn’t finish off Charlotte as well as I would like. It showed they have to keep working on their half court execution on offensive and stay active on defense. I’m glad to hear that Law only has ankle sprain, definitely looked like a really bad injury. Without Law we really need AJ to step-up. This is another good game to see if Woodson can get this team motivated and focused. The Supersonics are athletic at the SF and PF positions like the Hawks. We can’t allow second chance opportunities and attack the rim on offense. JJ needs to drive/draw/dish at every opportunity, he a quickness advantage on whoever they have guarding him. (Szczerbiak, Durant, etc) I think if they do that then they have a really good chance of winning.

BRING THE ENERGY!

GO HAWKS!

By doc

November 16, 2007 8:06 AM | Link to this

hey clyde=moron, agree with ray. you havent been around here enough to earn the chop to call someone out in one quite as fervently as you think. clyde though brief at times has some very salient things to say here and i am sure he knows what that word means. he prefers to be concise and he is fervent in his love for the hawks just not woody and billy if you havent noticed. since there are some that are more verbose in the distaste for them he is actually a welcome addition right ando. heh heh!

clyde=moron, so please come back with a more noble chop if you think you can earn it by standing with the guys at the hawks/blog z liars table. until then just take the crumbs UNDER the table WITH THE DOGS because you really dont have anything of interest to say, that is all you will get and all you might deserve.

By Hawksville Resident

November 16, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

I hope we get Acie back soon. It seemed like he was getting comfortable with running an NBA offense and in turn we were looking very scary with him at the helm. If he’s out, I hope whoever’s in just moves the ball. I love Tyronne Lue but I got frustrated seeing him dribble the ball into the ground making ugly faces before thowing up a desp eration runner with 2 secoonds left in the shot clock. We have so many atheletes that if we move the ball we can attack a defense at all angles and open up Salim and Joe for their sweet Jump shots. I’ll be there tonight to see if the Kevin Durant hype is warranted. Hype or no, we need to win this game!

By smartguy

November 16, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

Well said again, Doc. No one should come in here and try and push around the regulars. I love Clyde, and I don’t even know him.

Sekou, welcome back. How come you weren’t on that panel that picks the all star ballot? You have more sense than most of those clowns combined. Well, as long as Smooth is on there, that is my main concern.

So, the Hawks should win tonight? That alone probably means they’ll lose. Anyway, GO HAWKS!

By mountain jim

November 16, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this

If it wasn’t for bad (PG) luck, we wouldn’t have no luck at all….

Get well soon Acie (and Sekou)!

and Speedy? Retire already.

By Pep75

November 16, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

I am surprised that “La Bomba” Navarro is only playing 5 to 10 minutes every game for Memphis. If this doesn’t change during the regular season I think that both Navarro and Gasol will be next year in another team, because Navarro only has 1 year of contract with Memphis and all we know that Gasol is happier than last year because Navarro is there. So maybe it can be interesting for Atlanta to keep looking at that point during all the season. I am from Spain and I can assure you, that Navarro is the best Spaniard guard at the moment in the NBA, even better than Calderon, and with some consistent minutes he can produce very good numbers (points and assists). Sorry for my bad English.

By Pep75

November 16, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

I am surprised that “La Bomba” Navarro is only playing 5 to 10 minutes every game for Memphis. If this doesn’t change during the regular season I think that both Navarro and Gasol will be next year in another team, because Navarro only has 1 year of contract with Memphis and all we know that Gasol is happier than last year because Navarro is there. So maybe it can be interesting for Atlanta to keep looking at that point during all the season. I am from Spain and I can assure you, that Navarro is the best Spaniard guard at the moment in the NBA, even better than Calderon, and with some consistent minutes he can produce very good numbers (points and assists). Sorry for my bad English.

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

They Need to start salim!!! Now!! He’s a point guard and he created a lot. His defense has gotten better and he seems to be more patient on offense. I’m tired of coach woodsen only pulling him of the bench whenever he gets into trouble and needs some quick points. thats too much pressure. For Example the boston game. Not only did the celtics they have momentum when woodson threw salim in the fire they were also three of the best players in the NBA.You keep him cold on the bench all game and the expect him to come off and be superman? Salim would be way more effective if you actually kept him in the game for 24 minuets for once. Personally I think woodson still has not gotten over that little spat they had a year a go. Samim;s attitude has changed a lot since then, I think he now deserves a bigger role.

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

I look forward to the days when the hawks can be a powerhouse (like the Spurs for example) where the majority of the games we are either favored to win. Right now i guess ill settle for being in every game. Come on Woody this is your change to prove you’re capable of leading. Beat the teams you’re suppose to beat like the Sonics tonight

By Flappin Hawk

November 16, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Can’t wait to see how Durant deals with 6’9” City. The Boys will swarm him with defense tonight. They’ll want Horford to outshine him. Durant won’t hit but about 30% of his shots tonight. Hope the arena is full tonight. GO HAWKS!!

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

SALIM IS NOT A POINT GUARD. KEEPING IT REAL HE IS BASICALLY A SPOT-UP SHOOTER WHO CAN EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE CREATE HIS OWN SHOT. HE HAS NO CONCEPT OF SETTING UP PLAYERS ETC. BUT HE IS ALSO ONE OF OUR BEST SHOOTERS IF NOT THE BEST. ALSO THE GUY PLAYS NO D.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 16, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Sekou,thanks for the update on Josh and Acie.Tonight is a good game to measure our focus and intensity. The sonics are 1-8, so this is a team we should beat,but if we play like sunday its gonna be a long night.Last year we would beat teams like san antonio,detroit,phoenix and turn around the next game and get roasted by the likes of memphis or portland. We have to make a statement this season by abusing weaker teams and going all out against the leagues top teams. Good luck tonight fellas .GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

I LIKE DURANT BUT DO HE REALIZE HE HAVE TEAM MATES. RIGHT NOW HE AINT NO CARMELO AND THAT FG% IS TERRIBLE.

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

O.K check this out…. I really think the hawks should incorporate this rotation into their schemes somtime. Acie at point, salim at shooting guard, and joe at small forward. Acie and salim can switch on defense where salim guards the point and acie guards the SG .That to me is their best offensive lineup. Marvin Williams at the PF spot and AL or Big Z at the center position. This lineup is quick, it can spread the floor and can run. Reboundig should not be a problem for this squad. I really belive that this lineup should fix the hawks offinsive lapses that they tend to get at some point in every game.

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

If you have seen salim play lately his defense seems to have gotten a lot better. He has been causing turnovers a couple of times and when his man rotates nowadays he dosen’t “pull a steve nash” and just fade off to the basket anymore and leave him wide open for a shot. (Personally I Blame Lute Olsen for that). And when salim is in the open court with the ball in his hands he has very good court vision. At least now I don’t have to yell at the T.V screen anymore for salim to keep his eye on his man before he makes him pay from the three. He’s a work in progress bet he deserves a chance to show he’s changed. I hear he workd on his D a lot over the summer.

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

SALIM FAN HONESTLY WE ALL CAN FIND FLAW IN EVERY LINE UP BUT AS FAR AS SCORING AND THAT ONLY THIS IS A GOOD LINE UP BUT IT CREATES PROBLEMS FOR US. THIS IS AN UNDERSIZE LINE UP BUT IF YOU’RE RUNNING SOMETIMES THAT DOESNT MATTER. CAN YOU SAY POST UP ALL DAY.

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

True, By march I bet Horford will be an offensive juggernout in the post.

By myles

November 16, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

I so want to drink the kool-aid dealing with the hawks.

But right now, I seems to have to many questions. Do we play better with out Josh Smith? I love Josh but what is it going to take to get him on the same page with the other players. I can take 2 or 4 three point trys a game if you are going to the hole and working within the system but it is kind of hard to take right now.

If we play better in a running game then why don’t we run? All the teams we beat either play that style or we beat them by running (see the bobcats).

Are the ego’s of the coach and the players going to be the downfall of what could be a good season? How many times will guys just sit on the bench an not be used because of the coach or the style of play. At this stage of the early season, why do we not have a clearly defined second unit and so we can get guys rest if we really are going to run.

We have too much talent on this team to yo-yo wins and losses we should be able to make a few runs and steal a few road games. At the rate that we are going we will be .500 playing well at home and losing all of our road games (until we head out west and run).

By I.MUS WRITE

November 16, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Yeah-Durant’s FG% is horrible,keep on shooting Kev and Horford might have 20 rebounds tonight. Salim….. The guy is such a mystery to me. I think he needs to see more consistent minutes. Salim is noticeably improved from last year (decision making/ defense/shot selection) I dont think Woody is going to start Salim and Acie.He may finally be out of the dog house, but he is still chained up inside the fence. it would be exciting to see a lineup of

PG-LAW/SG-SALIM/SF-JJ/PF-MARV/C-HORFORD

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

I Agree.

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

IM NOT GONNA LIE….I AM DRINKING THE DAM HAWKS KOOLAIDE…IT WHAT I CALL BEING A FAN..BUT AT THE SAME TIME I DO ADMIT WE HAVE DEFICIENCIES WHICH NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED…NO NEED LISTING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER CAUSE WE ALL KNOW THEM AND KNOW THEM WELL…SO ME, I JUST GONNA KICK BACK AND LET THEM PLAY A COUPLE MORE GAMES BEFORE I STOP SIPPING MY KOOLAID

By Dan

November 16, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Games like tonight interest me more than the games against big time opponets—Phoenix, Detroit, etc. In the past, the Hawks usually lose the games against struggling teams. The Washington game was a f’ing debacle. The Bobcat game was much better.

Seattle comes in as a beatable team. They will be tough, but if the Hawks are as good as I think they are, they should win. No one wants to hear about injuries. The Hawks just need to find a way to win tonight and show that they have grown up, ready to make a playoff push.

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

Well spoken dan. The hawks are deep at every position. On or two injuries shoudn’t phase them as long as it’s minor (Four game absence by a player at the most).

By Darrin "The Vent King"

November 16, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

I know its been said a million times, but that was a STUPID play by that Bobcat that landed on Acie the other night. I swear I wanted to jump right into the t.v. and kick that guy right in the freaking rear, which may btw landed me on the IR, but would have been worth it regardless. LOL I hope Acie gets back soon, dude got game. Oh yeah, before I forget, has Marvin Williams FINALLY realized he has game too? Oh my blessed heart, I hope so. If this is true, and from the last few games it seems possible, the combination of Super Duper Joe Johnson, the incredibly high flying J-Smoove, “the Beast” Al Horford, Acie Law, and Marvin is going to a sight to see. With Salim, Sheldon, “Big Little Man” Tyrone Lue, and Zsa Zsa coming off the bench, we are going to be DEEP. If not this year, in the near future there is NO reason this team won’t make the playoffs. Good days are on the horizon my fellow Hawk’s fans.

GO HAWKS!!

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

And hawks-4-life I know it’s repetitive but it just has to be said. I mean just look at the washington game. Even though the hawks played like crap they were only down by five points late in the fourth. Hmmm……….I wonder wich player on the bench could have gotten them over the hump. I’ll give you a hint, he didn’t play and usually when he doesn’t we loose close games that we should have won. I know it hurts him more than anyone watching the haks fold like that when we all knoe it wouldn’t have happend if he had played. What about the Detroit game or even the New jersey one? I’m not that mad about those games B/C woodson said in a press confense that he should have played salim in those games. But you see where I’m going with this.

By redhawk

November 16, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

The best thing about the Charlotte game: the Hawks consistently got points in the paint from their half court offense. The most telling statistic from the Wizards loss was five steals for the Hawks. That means they weren’t playing their usual harassing defense. When the Hawks are playing well, they challenge almost every pass the other team makes. We’re really going to miss Josh Smith on defense for the next game or two. He looks like a mini-Mutombo (sp?) they way he protects the paint lately. One of the keys to the Hawks season is to NOT LOSE home games to teams that are O and six or one and seven. You just can’t do that. I give the Hawks a B minus so far. They’ve only played one truly lousy game so far (Wizards). They played so-so against NJ, but they’re pretty tough. P.S. A couple of weeks ago I wondered aloud whether the Celtics were over-rated. I was wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong. Now I just wonder if anybody can beat them.

By TJ

November 16, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

As good as JJ is, as good as Marvin’s jumper looks, Josh Smith is the fire that lights them up. Sure, they may have more scoring talent, but Josh Smith brings the energy and heart. What he must do is be whatever the team needs that night and contribute with that in mind night in and night out. He even has an example to look to, Shawn Marion, who will never get the airtime (that Josh does get) that he deserves, he’s not the best scorer on the team, but he’s in the right spot at the right time, and he gets fed accordingly (being “fed” includes being the highest paid player on the team). Which means that J-man needs to learn how to operate without the ball and defend on-the-ball. If he can pick this up, folk will realize how invaluable he is to the team. He may not ever win an MVP or nothing like that, but he’ll be on the SportsCenter Top 10 all day blocking and dunking, doing the dirty work, which with winning, is like icing on the cake.

That being said, I have yet to see a J-man highlight this season. According to Sekou, he might not be playing, but tonight would be the perfect opportunity to make a poster. The Sonics are a highly athletic team that shouldn’t be taken lightly, but they’re a turnover-prone, defense-unshown team. That being said, the keys for victory will be rebounding and free throws - can we get to the line and keep them off of it. It would be very encouraging to see Atlanta impose their will tonight and get back to .500 X-factor: Josh Childress.

GO HAWKS!

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

I GIVE YOU THAT FOR THE WIZ GAME AND THE NETS BECAUSE OF THE NEED FOR INSTANT OFFENSE BUT NOT THE DETROIT GAME CAUSE WE DIDNT NEED HIM…WE LOST THAT ON A BOGUS CALL.

By BosnianBaller

November 16, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Salim needs to be given a chance to play pg. Even though he is a number 2 i think that he could get the job done. I don’t think that as a team we are going to be able to run up and down the floor with anthony johnson.

By randy

November 16, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Salimfan, I really like Salim too but get real. Salim against Jason Kidd?? DO you remember last year when Kidd posted up Salim every trip down the floor and scored an easy bucket on him every time. Guarding Billups wouldn’t have been any easier. But the Suns is a perfect game for him to play in, Nash will not post you up he will either shoot a 3 or slash to the basket. Salim can guard against that. Basically what I am saying is Salim is situational, but I do love to watch the Sniper drain those threes!

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

MAN I EXCITED FOR TONIGHT GAME…SUCKS THAT I CANT SEE OR HEAR IT…DO ANYONE KNOW A BETTER WAY TO FOLLOW THE GAME ONLINE EXCEPT FOR ESPN GAMECAST…IM IN GERMANY SO IM NOT AS LUCKY AS YOU GUYS IN THE STATES…IM SUCH A DIE HARD FAN I FOLLOW ALL THE GAME ONLINE EVEN THOUGH THE TIME DIFFERENCE MEANS MOST GAMES START AT LIKE 1 AM.

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

O.K I can live with that but bieng small never stopped his cousin Damon or chris paul or jameer nelson? Like I stated his defense has gotten better, he should at least be given a chance to guard those guys. The guys guys I listed above are better defenders but with salim not getting an PT how will we know how much he’s progressed in that category. Shoot Lindsy hunter is one of the best little defenders ever and when tayshaun prince left the game guess who got to defend LeBron in the confrense finals last year? yup Hunter. If he gets posted as long as he holds his position for a couple of seconds Jmooth will come over and block the shot anyway. thats what big men are for guarding the paint. As long as salim doesnt give up any more jump shots or threes i’ll be satisfied. And I know youre not saying that lue at 5’8 is any better getting posted?

And I’s official Salim is a small 2 guard with passing abilities but as long as acie is out I would rather have salim play the point over any of the “official” Point guards we have on the bench. who by the way are getting paid way too much for their “services”….right.

Iverson has the same problem B/C he is a small 2 guard but he compensates for that with steals and scoring. All of which I think salim can accomplish if give the oppourtunity.

By Astro Joe

November 16, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

hawks-4-life, go to www.790thezone.com and you can listen to live broadcast of the game, from the Hawks announcers, Steve Holman and Dennis Scott (former Tech star and Magic player). I personally prefer the nba.com website for stats and real-time game updates. Let me know if that works for you, in fact, you could logon now to 790 and check out a GA Tech game to see if it will work when the Hawks game starts in 6 hours.

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

THANX A MILLION ASTRO JOE

By AJCfanatic

November 16, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

SalimFan.. i’m starting to think you are actually Salim himself. I was a huge Salim fan too when he came out of college and we drafted him but he’s pulling a Deangelo Hall from last year.. Talking about the talent he does have and still getting burned by the TOs of the league.. Ty Lue is a much better PG for the sheer fact that he doesn’t turn the ball over that much, manages the position, and gets his 15 points with big shots. We cannot ask for Salim to come in and be Chris Paul when he isn’t.. The strength is not PG on this team so all we need to do is to not make it our weakness by succumbing to inexperienced youths.. Hawks-4-life please stop writing in all caps

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

AJCFANATIC ok. lol

By Clyde

November 16, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

Hey just cause someone calls me a moron doesn’t mean I’m going to change anything. What it does mean is I have fans.

But it will be interesting to see how the Hawks do on the inside without Jsmooth. When he goes out the game for a couple of minutes our opponents have a field day. Him being out a whole game will be interesting. I hope Solomon gets some playing time.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By DJ

November 16, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

Hawks need to stop playing at the level of there opponents. Do the Hawks run offensive plays in the half court? Looks like they stand around until the shot clock runs down and someone goes one on one to score.

By birdwatcher

November 16, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

What about using a big lineup? JJ, Chill, Marvin, Al, and ZaZa.

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

I am not calling salim a PG he is a shooting guard by nature. But he does know how to play point. He Did so for lute Olsin at AZ at times.

As far as Lue Being a better PG as far as tunovers yes but ability to create ….uhuh. Overal he is a better Lue is point though.

My comparisons to Chris Paul were only to compare similar sized guards and their defensive abilities pretaining to Randy stating that salim is only situational and cannot matchup Defensively if he starts.

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

…And Salim Doesn’t Talk Trash so comparing him to deangelo hall is pointless. He doesn’t have to tell coach woodsen that he is the best shooter on the team. Woodsen and everyone else already knows that. Salim has proven it again and again. He just wants PT.

You can’t be mad at a guy for being good at his job and WANTING to do it.

By Pete

November 16, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Birdwatcher starting Chill would be a bad idea. He gives the bench fire power. I like AJ Lue Salim for the point guards. JChill will back up Joe and Marvin. Horford and Zaza will rotate at center

By rob

November 16, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Is there any alternative to listening to 790 the Zone? The past few times it has been playing a Tech game or talk radio during the Hawks depending on where your car is located. I even parked on Wednesday while talk radio was on and by the time I got back to the car the Hawks were back on! Ridiculously bad coverage area I guess. Any alternative stations?

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

salimfan Im not bashing you, this in only conversation and it aint personal but what the difference between salim and redick. To me nothing, they are nothing but spot-up shooters

By Astro Joe

November 16, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

rob, other than Sirius radio, 790 is the only station that broadcasts Hawks games in metro Atlanta over the air. If the game isn’t televised, I listen on my PC. And sometimes, if they are airing a Tech game (Tech gets priority over Hawks), I think they broadcast the Hawks on 102.5 FM (which is great because obviously the reception is far better than AM). Bottom line, limited options if you’re in your car and the game is only available thru 790.

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

gentlemen due to the fact that the hawks play at 1 my time, ill be at the club bringing home a dime but before i do what i do ill check the score (lol) and if we lose im sure i wont be in the mood so god please let the hawks win. I hate to turn some u know what down cause im p**!!!

By Astro Joe

November 16, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Rob and hawks-4-life, here is a link regarding game broadcasts.

http://www.nba.com/hawks/tvradio/HawksRadioMainPage.html#affiliates

hawks-4-life, it looks like you can click on the link and register to hear every NBA live for free on the internet thru NBA League Pass. I recall there was a fee for this last season, looks like they decided to make it free this year.

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

A Side Note: Salim is not an inexperienced youth. Joe Johnson is only one year older than stoudemire. The only difference is that JJ came out of college after his sophmore year,and established himself early in his career at pheonix. He may have more NBA experince, but as far as total basketball experience salim is right up there with JJ, Lebron and all those other guys who chose to forgoe the collegiate level.

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe you’re on it man. Good look.

By Astro Joe

November 16, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

hawks-4-life, do they have dimes in Germany? I mean, Colonel Klink’s secretary was pretty sweet, but are you finding any Jessica Albas, Beyonces or Jessica Beils round your way? Hey, good luck hunting, my man.

By Tap Daddy

November 16, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

SalimFan, I think we all realize Salims offensive ability, but basketball is a “team” sport and the object is to win. He might be there best individual shooter but his lack of size and defensive abilit makes him a situational player. He’s like Eddie House. You cant play guys like that 30 minutes a game…other teams are to good and will take advantage of that mismatch all day. I actually went to school in Portland State (he’s from the portland area) and played against him, Damon, and his cousin Twon….so i’m rooting for him but he’s not the answer at point…just think Eddie House…the guy has a gift for “scoring”..but he’s not a distributor..i do like when they play him with Joe Johnson though because he does have the ability to free up space for Joe to go to work…hopefully, Woodson finds a way to get him minutes but dont expect to ever see him getting 25 to 30 mins, on any team……

By SalimFan

November 16, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

I see where you’re comin from. I just think he could be like an Iverson and they could play him at the 2spot with joe and acie. Iverson gives up size but he makes it work. And like I said his defense has gotten better since last year. But you’re right as long as the team wins and he contributes in some way then i’m happy.

By hawks-4-life

November 16, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe man all im gonna say is im livin the life…these women are fine as hell….im tryin to start a powerpoint clip for my boy back home to show what they missin…unfortunately ill miss tonight game but i will turn down sex if we lose…lol…i get enough…hey do anyone in here have myspace…mine is www.myspace.com/darknsmooth…ttyl people

By honest_abe

November 16, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

kudos to jj for a great game the other night. in order for the hawks to be competitive they need jj to attack like he did the other night. its only when he only settles for jump shots and disappears for long stretches of time that the hawks become a bunch of bumbling fools.

now the hawks get a lot of flack for coming out some nights lackadaisical and sloppy but i don’t think jj gets enough heat and criticsm. jj is the highest paid, most respected player on the team. it’s about time he take on the mantle of a leader and start leading.

hey yo doc you insects ready for another beat down this year? heh heh

oh yes and clyde there’s a reason why solo is sitting on the bench in a suit. he ain’t close to being ready. the kid cant’ even dominate or stand out during summer leagues. i like solo but he’s still a few years and maybe 50 lbs away from being able to contribute with any regularity.

woody needs to give aj some minutes.

looks like shellie is about to get lost in the rotation. which brings up an interesting scenario when lorenzen comes back. does he get any pt?

chills has to be the most underrated player on this team.

hawks match up well against the sonics. i expect a win tonight.

go hawks!

By Ryder

November 16, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

I access the Hawks radio through NBA League Pass and listen to their games there. That way I can catch real-time scoring as well as listen to the game. If the game’s on commercial I can listen to others. Best of all it’s free and a great thing for fans who don’t live in the ATL area like myself. I love the commentators for the Hawks way more than the Wizards. They seem to keep you in the game.

The Hawks can’t sleep on the Sonics tonight. Jump out to the big lead early and set it on cruise control. No need to prove a point of who’s the better rookie between Al and Kevin. Just win.

By Tap Daddy

November 16, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

I do think he needs more time though, I just think Woodson’s lack of creativity hurts him and the team…just look at Cleveland and how they operate offensively. Daniel Gibson actually played the 2 when he was at Texas and really isnt a true point guard…his role is basically to spot up and knock down open shots that..just watch when Cleveland plays, most of the time the ball is in Lebrons hands so they space the floor with guys like Sasha and Gibson (Hughes needs to go to the bench and is usually on the bench crunch time anyways) but back to my point, what that does is free up there best player Lebron to operate..if teams help or double there in trouble because Sasha and Daniel Gibson shoot it lights out…now back to our Hawks, we all know Joe isnt a point guard, however, with his playmaking ability and since the ball is usually in his hands at the end of games or when the shot clock is running down I just dont see why we dont play those two in the backcourt more. Especially with Marvin knocking down that 18 footer consistently you really cant double our best player JJ….I bet you if we had a coach like Mike D’antonio he would fine time for a spark plug like him and would also have these young guys consistently pushing the basketball….which we all know is when they are at there best….new motto for the Hawks should be…..LETS RUN…..and Woodson should pull guys out the game who aren’t sprinting the lanes..but no, were stuck with a defensive minded coach (which isnt completely bad) but just cant adapt to the personal he has..were not the Pistons, I know he won being an asst there but you have to make the best of the pieces you have in place, it just seems like Billy Knight and Woodson just arent on the same page……sorry for rambling fellas……

By I.MUS WRITE

November 16, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

HAWKS 4 LIFE- they have no idea about the dimes over in germany. I spent 6 months in Frankfurt. All shapes,sizes and nationalities. Bag a war baby for me bro.

With Law on the mend itz Salim over any other point on the roster -period…. Somebody mentioned it earlier, but salim can be what eddie house is for the celtics. Salim opens up the floor-so itz pick your poison JJ, Marv or the Sniper-who u gonna doulbe?????

By Tap Daddy

November 16, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Woodson’s to conventional of a coach to put offense ahead of defense and risk starting a backcourt of Salim and JJ with Acie out……remember this is the same coach who would start Royal Ivey for 5 mins in the first half and then 4 mins in the second half and then bench him for the rest of the game…..what in the world was the purpose of that? and where in the world is Royal Ivey at now??…….If there was anytime to experiment with Salim at the point with Joe Johnson at the two that would have been the perfect opportunity…but noooooo he choose to give that valuable playing time and starting experience to a guy who’s not even on the team……i’m tryin to root for Woodson but alot of his decisions just leave me flat out confused and upset…….

By Professor K75

November 16, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

What if we started JJ at PG and Salim at SG? They could switch on defense since JJ is 6’8. Just a thought. Also, I think the Hawks would be more effective if Horford started at the 4 and ZaZa at the 5. I think they could help each other out. Marvin needs to be more involved in the offense and JS needs to get all his points on offensive rebounds and fast breaks. Just some thoughts of mine….

By Ryder

November 16, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Professor, I agree they should have Al and Zaza playing alongside each other, but as for JJ he needs to stay at SG. Marvin is doing a great job in his role as of now and there’s no need to change that. Having JJ at PG won’t work because that’s extracting too much energy for the team’s number one option. While Acie is out just have a rotation of Lue, AJ, and Salim at the point so JJ can focus on scoring.

By ray

November 16, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I figured you were still sick. Nice to have you back, as always.

Clyde, nobody expects you to change. We might bicker and argue here and there, but we got your back. One of these days I’m buyin’ one of your shirts, too…

Honest Abe, man I was beginning to think we needed to get a search team out for you! C’mon now, where’s that dagger wit I’m so used to?

Tap Daddy, ramble away. It’s what we do here bro’. Join the fray…

Joe is going to have to facilitate a bit more, as well as be in serious attack mode tonight. AJ or whoever is in there to replace Acie is going to have to step it up. Acie will be missed. Let’s see how it goes…

By doc

November 16, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this

good day of bloggin with some newbies, good stuff.

listen honest i have been very respectful this year. having a daughter at uga has me in a divided category, got to go with the flow. if im wearing black it wont be to honor cmr but to say my condolences for a season that got away from us. so beat me down just dont rub my nose in it too hard.

mike, for you bud, GOOO HAWKS!

By honest_abe

November 16, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

ray: i’m still here.. just too tired to write much these days. besides i’m finding it much more entertaining reading you guys.

doc: your daughter chose wisely. as for tech’s season… winning 8 games would be considered a successful season which shouldn’t be very hard in a watered down acc. gailey is almost as much a disaster as woody. but i digress.

now back to basketball. have any of you guys seen the hawks run a play coming out of a timeout? there’s no excuse when you have over 15 seconds coming out of a timeout to come close to having a shot clock violation. seattle is supposed to be in a rebuilding year. they are supposed to be worse than the hawks. i’m not saying carlesimo is a great coach but at least he’s competent. he has a basic understanding and feel for the flow of the game. when he feels like his team has lost focus or the other team is gaining momentum he calls a timeout. woody waits until his team is in a large hole to stop the bleeding. the man is god awful. i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again he’s the worst coach in professional sports. the fact that he still has a job says a lot about the atlanta hawks organization.

By JohnGTFan

November 16, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this

If Woodson isn’t fired after this horrible showing (don’t want to hear the excuse that Smith and Law aren’t playing), then something is seriously wrong. This is pathetic. Yeah, Seattle is athletic, but not as ATL. ZaZa is ATL’s best player in the 1st half…and that’s truly sad.

By randy

November 16, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this

HALFTIME at Brickcity…uh…I mean Phillips Arena. Down 13 to the worst team in the NBA quite possibly. DO we have any shooters on this team? Do we have any defense??? Josh come back soon, this is what your beloved Hawks will look like next year, when our incompetent management set JSmoove free from this Dysfunctional Nightmare called the Hawks. We have 5 lead footed Ben Wallaces out there minus Big Bens defense. What a horrible horrible horrible performance!!

By randy

November 16, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

What was with that African Jamboree at the beginning of the game? I bet they aren’t dancing in the lockerrooom right now.

By Melvin

November 16, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

For all those Hawk fans who want to trade Josh Smith, I hope you are watching the game tonite. You may want to re-evaluate thoses wishes… Give me his energy, hustle and killer attitude any day along with his bad shot selection… JJ the team leader. Please…

By RANDY

November 16, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

TAKE SALIM OUT!!!!!!!! HE CAN’T SHOOT TONIGHT, AND HE SURE ISN’T IN FOR DEFENSE!!!

By randy

November 16, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

JOE IS ON FIRE!!!!

By Randy

November 16, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

Same ol’ Hawks. Joe Johnson is the only player on this team can shoot.

Coaches lose close games and it is getting OLD! THREE CHEERS, FIRE WOODY! FIRE WOODY!!! FIRE WOODY!!!!!!!!!

By Matt

November 16, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

Tough loss, but came back from a 13-point deficit and stayed in it despite playing 3 guys short - considering that they lasted until 2OT and it took a desperation 3 to win it, that’s not a bad night under the circumstances.

Hopefully, they’ll take their energy and use it tomorrow in Milwaukee.

GO HAWKS!!!

By Randy

November 16, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

What energy Matt, they just lost after 2 overtimes.

FIRE WOODY!!!!!

By roan st

November 16, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

Bad loss. This is certainly not a playoff team. After beating dallas and phoneix they have now lost to a winless team and one win team. It looks like they may end with about the same amount of wins as last season. I will continue to watch the team but have no hope as long as woody and billy are still around.

By roan st

November 16, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

Matt, sorry but I think I speak for everyone by saying we don’t care for moral victories and excuses any longer. This season is off to a bad start and it’s time to fire woody’s a$$.

By A-ville Ranger

November 16, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

They’re still stupid..a 2-8 team beat em on their own court.Thing is the Hawks did the hard work,they won the grunt war,they’re just too damn dumb.Here’s some numbers Hawks out reb them by 4 had 1 more asst 1 fewer t.o same number of stl and 3 more blk.They lost the same way they always do.With the game tied, 9 seconds left in 1st ot Stoudamire took a 29 ft shot with time on the clock and needing 1 to win.With 1.40 left in second ot Stoudamire takes another 29 ft.You will lose most of these when you’re to dumb to play situational ball,that’s just the truth.Oh, the one 3 Seattle took late was with no time left on the clock for the win.

By hocker

November 16, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

After losing to 1-8 Seattle at home, is it time to acknowledge this is the same team. Lots of athletic forwards and no point guard to be found. If this bunch wins 35 games it will be a surprise.

By Clyde

November 16, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Don Johnson

November 16, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

Was that the luckiest game in the history of sport that we just witnessed from the youngest Wilkins? I am a Dawg fan and still found his performance laughable.

Time for Woody to go. His “offense” is a joke.

I thought this team was ready to compete, but with pansies like “J-Chill” choking games away and Woodson’s ineptitude, it just is not going to happen.

Sure would have been nice to have Anthony Johnson tonight.

What a friggin joke this organization is.

By Flappin Hawk

November 16, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

Pathetic…Seattle hit every tough shot tonight, but we still should have won that game. Injuries aside, Woodson’s days are numbered. It will be a miracle if we stay within 15 of the Bucks. I hope JS is back.

By Astro Joe

November 16, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

I could give a crap about moral victories, but I’m not as upset as others about this particular game. Wilkins had a once-in-a-career kind of game. He was Buster Douglas tonight… in front of father and uncle. Joe showed incredible leadership in the second half. Woody resisted temptation to play Lue and let Salim (of all people) play beside JJ in crunch time (which lasted about the last 18 basketball minutes). Horford did all the dirty work. My gripes are about Childress choking at the free throw line in regulation and Marvin not taking enough shots.

What this game says to me is that if a player has a career game, scoring 15 over his previous career high and you’re missing 2 starters and you’re playing your 4th PG (Salim) a ton of minutes, then you will lose in double OT by a freakish-lucky 3-pointer. Oh well.

Sekou, so are you going to tell us the deal with AJ or will we have to get a science fiction story from the dude in Detroit?

AJ is now the new Tony Delk!

By Ryder

November 16, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this

Seattle was on fire that’s all you can say. It happens. I do see now how important it is to have Josh Smith on defense. Wilkins torched the Hawks tonight with him gone. If he’s not back for Milwaukee say hello to 3-6 with San Antonio on board. I mean 3-7.

By preston

November 16, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

ok..I am officially on the fire Woody bandwagon…..He is losing this team and this city…..this team has absolutely no identity whatsover…..and that correlates directly to what Woodson is teaching them…..why are you putting in players at the end of the game that havent even broke a sweat to defend the other team from hitting the winning basket????? I was hoping for something more out of Woodson this year, but the guy has dug himself into too deep of a hole to recover…..72-182…I dont think that he can do any beter tan that….time for the hawks, just as the thrashers did, to make a change……….NOW!!!!! I mean RIGHT NOW!!!!!

By doc

November 16, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this

it starts at the top, let us hear it for the BAS.

bring on my manchild yi.

By Aaron

November 16, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this

I too would like to have a little more information about AJ. Any chance you could contact him directly, Sekou?

By reese

November 16, 2007 11:38 PM | Link to this

Melvin, too bad we’re in the minority on Francis and Hunter.

Tough loss tonight. However, I have to applaud the fact that they had more blocked shots, less turnovers, more rebounds and more assist than Seattle.

The Good: Marvin and Horford had entries in every positive offensive/defensive category. I like the fact that Marvin had 2 blocked shots and 4 steals. I hope he can keep up the intensity. Childress had a double double double off the bench. Joe Johnson stepped up his offensive aggressiveness in the 2nd half. The hawks matched the number of shot attempts and took 99 shots. I like the fact that woody increased his rotation to 10 players. I really liked that he had Solomon Jones challenging the inbound pass and he had horford covering durant. Unfortunately, Durant made a tough shot with someone in his face.

The bad: They lost the game to a team with a 1 and 8 record after losing to a team with an 0 and 8 record. Al Horford is struggling scoring in the post. Childress missing free throws at the end of regulation. Marvin short arming a shot is the closing minutes of regulation.

At least the game was entertaining. I like the high scoring games when offensive players are making shots while defensive players are playing good defensive. I just hate the fact that Seattle out hustled the hawks to loose balls.

I missed the first half of the game but the 2 overtimes made up for it. Is zaza on a minute limitation or was he getting burned on the defensive end. Why was AJ on the inactive list for this game when J smith, ac and speedy were out and lue looks injured.

By doc

November 16, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

just saw the line score, came close to saying in my brief note earlier to watch out for wilkens as he usually comes in avg about 3 a game and trashes our hawks and has career games. 41 points are rediculous to have scored on you by a journeyman type no matter if he is playing in front of relatives. sorry defense which is our mainstay and mantra from hte cliche bank.

missed all of the game having a bit of a real life, next time you consider watching or listening at home or even going to a game think about going to see american gangster … good flick. gots to hand it to horford as he had 5 blocks taking over a bit for smash and maybe ready to do him one better as a four.

By what a joke

November 17, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this

Seattle was just “on” tonight???? Excuse me?? What a joke…..that team flat out suc@#…the only reason that team was “on fire” was b/c this team can’t play d. Did we forget that Woodson was supposed to be a “d” minded coach, molded from the Detroit teams that dominate the East…..get ready for another top 5 draft pick, and another 6’9” “tweaner” that “has alot of potential”…..we should have never traded Nique…its like the freakin Babe Ruth curse

By Melvin

November 17, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this

Reese, i would even take Marbury. Give the knicks speedy, sheldon and another throw in player.

By Harry Hawk

November 17, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this

The biggest joke of all tonight is seeing Shelden Williams, a #5 overall pick in last year’s draft, play only 12 minutes out of 58. Meanwhile, Al Horford plays 52 freakin’ minutes. Woodson is a hell of a coach, isn’t he? He’s a damn rook, Woody. 52 minutes???

By Harry Hawk

November 17, 2007 12:31 AM | Link to this

By the way, I’m saying Shelden is any good, but you can’t leave Horford out on the floor for as many minutes as Joe Johnson. It makes no sense at all. Where the hell was Zaza? I don’t care if the guy got selfish. Put his a* back in there and rest the young fella. I think Woody thought Lue was in street clothes or something. This is the type of game that ought to get Woodson fired, but it won’t.

By Dan

November 17, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this

I have never said this before, but will tonight: FIRE WOODSON!!! I understand now. The guy is just in over his head.

When he came here his MO was defense and rebounding. Well, Damien Wilkins put up 41 on the Hawks tonight and they allowed the Sonics 3 offensive rebounds late in the game that helped lead to this defeat. This is the same team as last year.

The season is over. Yes, only 8 games, but I’ve seen enough. Still losing the games that should be wins. First Washington and then Seattle tonight. Lose, lose, lose, lose….the battle cry of the Alanta Hawks!

Nice choke job by Childress at the line tonight, by the way. Born losers…

By Harry Hawk

November 17, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this

I’m NOT* saying Shelden is any good…

I need another drink…

By reese

November 17, 2007 1:04 AM | Link to this

Melvin, I like Marbury as well, but he makes too much money. The hawks can’t afford him.

Thats why I’m suggesting the low cost alternatives and we can still keep our core of players.

However, I still don’t know if woodson would get out of his comfort zone of playing marvin or childress as power forwards when Jsmith is out.

Face it, there is no need to debate whether the hawks players are more athletic than the other teams players any more. Each team has players just as athletic or more than the hawks.

The more important question is when will the hawks players consistently play without the fear of making mistakes. When will they be consistently more agressive than their opponents. When will Marvin Williams and Josh Childress have a 41 point game like Damien Wilkins. In lieu of 40 point games, when will they realize that they need to consistently have multiple players with double doubles.

I could go on and on, but I’m to tired.

By mykhalc

November 17, 2007 1:59 AM | Link to this

JOE, good post and accurate as usual man. my only question is what in the hell allows cats to HAVE CAREER DAYS against the HAWKS??? geessshhhhhhhhh!!!

By HB Ando

November 17, 2007 2:24 AM | Link to this

Astro Joe said, when we beat Phoenix, without Amare, that there are no asterisks: only wins and losses. Tonight was proof positive that such a position is a two-way street.

No excuses. Just lost to a one-win team, at home.

Anybody who sees a playoff team right now needs to put down the kool-aid (or the pipe).

And I have to agree with Harry: playing a rook for 52 minutes is an immediate flashback to his over use of JJ last year, which culminated in a season-ending calf injury, for the last quarter of the season.

The idea that the buffoons running, and coaching, this organization, are spontaneously going to evolve into upper echelon managers, and coaches, simply has no historical precedence.

The potential for a positive future, before we all croak, is wholesale changes in the front office, and on the coaching staff.

Clyde is money:

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY!

By mykhalc

November 17, 2007 3:09 AM | Link to this

ANDO, on point about it bein’ a 2 way street. no asterisk, no doubt. BUT i can still ask the question about why cats will discover a CAREER day against the HAWKS???!!! i mean i know the answer but i had to throw it out there none-the-less.

i have to admit ACIE’s injury has taken the wind outta my sails currently. ‘cause i FINALLY saw what i KNEW ever since i called for the lineup back in camp that the 2 rooks HAVE what it takes, despite WOODSON’s brain-freeze on not playin’ ACIE down the stretch.

what i NOW KNOW even more is that the rooks have 2 of the highest b’ball IQ’s on the team!!!! they bring what this team has sorely lacked for a number of years now. i can only hope that there time with the BRAINLESS TRUST DOES NOT stifle their growth as players!!!!

glad to see JJ got his game and attitude outta his butt!!!!

and i’m still sick of LUE poundin’ the ball!!!!

By Inside Info

November 17, 2007 3:16 AM | Link to this

I saw Acie Laws dad at the game. He said Acie was fine and will he play against the Bucks. Josh will also. Im happy for Durant. The kid has been getting dogged out and he really is a good player. If he fills out like Bosh he is going to be a good one. Just a heartbreakin loss. I hope AJ hasnt cashed in his chips with his teammates and fans. Being upset at coach Woodson isnt a pass to bail on a game when you are REALLLYY needed bad. Its going to take alot of heart to pull out a win against the Bucks after playing and traveling all night.

By MJ3

November 17, 2007 4:03 AM | Link to this

Oh please. Everybody calls for Woody’s head after every loss. Tonight, Childress and Horford bricked free throws that would have won us the game. Tell me how THAT was Woody’s fault.

We only had 9 players suit up tonight, including two starters who were lost to injuries. Again, not Woody’s fault.

When we win, it’s in spite of Woody, but when we lose it’s because of him? That’s both incorrect and unfair.

If we don’t have 8 wins after 20 AND 11 wins after 25 games, I will join all of you in calling for Woody to be fired. Until then, the sniping is just absurd.

By doc

November 17, 2007 7:52 AM | Link to this

maybe aj left the building because his coach said he wasnt going to play an he was going to wear a suit. i doubt he walked out because he was told he would play big minutes, do you? maybe it was even too much for him to be shown up when everyone in the building knew he should be in uniform with the lack of depth at the position folks said we were so strong in before the season began where he was picked as the “starter”. got to ask the question again as i did the day aj was brought in; who was the bumpkin that got him in the first place and threw away a draft pick in the process?

nothing has made a bit of sense for the last few years, only pleased that thus far we havent degenerated into the knicks abyss. oh, and please dont give me anyone who has been part of that dysfunctional family. who are you kidding?

By Math

November 17, 2007 8:10 AM | Link to this

Hawks - PG = No Playoffs

Hawks + Sheldon Top 5 Pick = You’re Fired

Hawks + PG in 08 Draft + New Coach = Playoffs

By smartguy

November 17, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

Can Woody get along with anybody??

And if you think we’re better without Smooth, then I hoped you also noticed how soft our interior defense was. Lots of easy lay ups and dunks without #5.

MJ3, glad to see someone still has Woody’s back. So you’re hoping for 8-12 or 11-14?? WOW! That’s really going to get us far. High, high standards there. I’m guessing that you got that from the Spirit or from somewhere inside the organization. At that pace, we’ll achieve… well, I guess Phoenix will definitely get a lotto pick this year.

Unfortunately, we like to win one, lose two. Mark it down, we will lose tonight. Win one, lose two, that puts us with a win total somewhere in the high twenties for the year.

I don’t want to dog Woody any more. If you can’t see it by now, then I doubt you ever will. But, we need a coach who can get along with his players, with whom there needs to be mutual respect. We need a coach who can win. We need a competent coach. We need a coach other than Woody. Come on, Spirit.

By ray

November 17, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

I don’t have much to say about this one besides the fact that I’m disgusted.

Oh, and our hometown announcers suck. Well, I like Smitty usually, but Rathbun always sucks. It just seemed to me like they were rooting more for Seattle’s Damien Wilkins than they were for the Hawks. Give the man some credit for his performance, yeah. But dang if they didn’t oooh and ahhh every freakin’ time he touched the ball, especially Rathbun. Ridiculous…I guess that just shows the state of things with this organization. I mean, honestly I couldn’t tell you if I was more disgusted with the fact that Wilkins scored 41 on us, or that our announcers were so awe struck by him. Sheeeesh…

MJ3, how about the glittering record Woodson has compiled here in the last three years, in addition to this year’s record so far? How about the plays that are being run? What about the fact that it has taken the coach three years to figure out that this team is built to RUN, when it has been obvious to people on this blog for the last two years at least? What about the plays we run, especially coming out of a timeout?

Yeah, I agree that some of our guys choked last night. No doubt about it. And we are missing key personnel. Happens to every team at some point. But trying to use a couple of scenarios to prove that Woodson isn’t a problem overall…give me a break. How do you explain the losing when everybody’s healthy? Oh wait, it’s gotta be the players, they just suck, right? Yeah, people have called for Woody’s head after every loss. Where have you been, do you see how many losses we have every year? Well, get ready to join the group, because I just don’t see 11 wins coming in the first 25 games. Not the way things are going so far.

By ray

November 17, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

Doc, I get bad feelings about tonight. I think your boy Yi is gonna give us some kind of hell. I’ll get my ear plugs ready, otherwise I know I’ll be hearing the “I told you so” symphony at concert pitch coming from your general direction. And you’ll be right, at least theoretically, and certainly in the sense of the player himself. In reality, he probably would’ve hated playing for Woody and we’d have had our second Boris Diaw, only worse this time. I still have no doubts that this wasn’t the place for him, only because of the vision of the gm, and the methods and philosophies of the coach. But I ain’t mad about the pick, ‘cause Horford is a beast. Just ask Chris Wilcox.

smartguy, exactly. And while I don’t expect any changes to be made at the GM position, the coaching change is the easiest (easier than changing players, in fact) to deal with. And it’s not change just for the sake of change. It’s something that is altogether necessary.

By kwooden1

November 17, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

I listened to the entire game on NBA.com and the only thing I can say is really disappointed! I think I’m a little more disappointed in Woodson than anyone else, only because they weren’t ready to play defense in the first half without JS. It took until the second half for them to control the middle and start blocking shots. I think they kepted the Sonics off the offensive boards well and JJ came up big. Wilkins played the game of his career, I’m sure he won’t shoot that well tonight. I guess for me this just confirms my feelings at the begining of the season, this team is one year away from the playoffs. Last year they won’t have come back from a 14 points, without their best defender, so they are improving. I’m disappointed in Salim for missing so many 3’s when that is his job, I would feel better if I heard they weren’t all open 3’s. I’ve lived in Maryland all my life so I’m happy for Durant, but very upset that we lost. Does anyone know if AJ’s baby is doing well, Yahoo reported that he was at the Arena, but left for personal reasons?

We’ve got to put this loss behind us and find away to win tonight. Again we have to get out on shooters (Redd, Yi, etc) and own our defense boards. JJ I hope you got some rest, Drive/Draw/Dish, got to have double-digit assists tonight.

GO HAWKS!!

By Khao$

November 17, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Last night’s game was a perfect example of what Josh Smith’s presence (or lack there of) means to this team. When we needed defensive stops, we couldn’t get them. Understand, shot blocking isn’t easy to find in this league. 1 or two timely blocked shots could have been the difference between losing a nailbiter at the buzzer or pulling the game out. No excuses, we lost. However, I really believe this should show Hawk’s fans, to some small degree, that Mr. Smith’s impact on the boards and blocking shots cannot be understated. JJ is the best player on the team. However, Josh is the difference maker. Chillz is the x-factor. Other roles are being defined (Marvin is developing into the 2nd scorer). However, before anyone says anything about trading Josh in the offseason, think about last night’s game and what could have brought to the table. Then, think about who could possibly replace those block shots and athletic rebounds.

By Ken Strickland

November 17, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

I can see there are a lot of disappointed Howk fans right now. Some of you are pointing a finger at Woodson, as usual. If JChills hadn’t missed that FT this would all be moot. Why can’t we appreciate that we got to see one on the most exciting gms we will likely see all yr.

Also, some of you keep referencing the fact that Seattle was just a 1-8 team. Anyone that’s ever played Bball knows it’s not that they’re a 1-8 team, but did they play like one. If you saw the gm, you know they didn’t. The way they played last night, they would have defeated most teams.

I’m proud of the way they played. Without 2 of their 3 most important starters, they didn’t fold. It took a miraculous shot by Durant, in double overtime, to defeat us. I also like the way Woody handled his substutitions. He didn’t panick when Salim was not hitting his shots. He just took him out and reinserted him at crunch time. I am also proud of Salim and how he performed on both ends of the court.

Some of us seem to have developed a LOOSERS MENTALITY. We always seem to focus on the negatives of a gm, coach or player. Come on, we’ve just completed only our 8th gm of the season. And still, some of you are so negative minded(remember losers mentality) you’re already discounting playoff possibilities. What about the remaining 74gms we have to play to complete the season?

MYKHALC, ANDO, I agree, there are no asterisks next to wins/losses when teams are shorthanded. But it doesn’t mean you can’t assess that as a contributing factor. During his tenure as Hawks HC, Woodson has always been able to get this teams to stay competitive, even during our 13 win season. If he can continue to do that, with the talent and depth we have, we can still make the playoffs.

Yours truely,

A HAWKS FAN THAT HAS YET TO DEVELOP A LOSERS MENTALITY. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

By Brian

November 17, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Who cares really? The Hawks have sucked since the early 90’s and will continue that trend for years to come. Regardless of what some people want to think, the Hawks are not even close to being a playoff team.

If they were a playoff team, they wouldn’t have lost that game last night. I think it’s time the Atlanta Hawks go to another city. They aren’t needed in Atlanta.

By Dan

November 17, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Tonight’s game should not even be played. We know what is going to happen. The Hawks are going to get run out of town. Woodson has never been able to get his team’s ready for these quick turnaround games.

I am stunned that anyone can defend this guy after last night. It is time for Woodson to go. This team is going to be 3 and 6 after tonight’s game. That is a terrible record and, in the past, the Hawks have never recovered after getting more than a couple games in the hole.

I’m calling it right now…..Hawks season = over.

By Brian

November 17, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

Btw, Al Horford is a bust.

By SalimFan

November 17, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Tough Loss. nobody played particularly bad. What a sorry war to end a game. Such a lucky shot with 6’10 Al horford draped all over him. We Outrebounded them and we had more assts than them. It all just came down to one lucky shot. Our bigs have got to pley better than that. Teir rebounding deficancies really show without josh smith in the lineup. I guess that means we play better with josh….even thaough he misses a ton of open jumpshots.

On a bright note salim played a little point and some off-guard last night. You see he wasn’t on fire, he’s human he’s not giong to be every night. He had eleven pionts in 37 minuets of play. When he was playing the point he did it very well and had good decision making.He never played out of control and he played very good defense. Just having him on the floor opend things up offinsevly for joe and others. He also had three very good assists. I guess woodsen finally saw the light. He only gave up two basket last night and he was all over one guy, and they were in a zone for the other so he had to run at him and catch up.

The hawks have to win tonight in order to regain momentum. If not, I do not think this team will be in a good place mentally.

By SalimFan

November 17, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

I have some other things I want to adress. Pretaining to other peoples comments.

1)If you think that all salim com do offensively is shoot. Go to youtube type in salim stoudemire and have a feild day cuz youre wrong. SEATTLE WAS IN A BOX ZONE THE WHOLE NIGHT!! THEY HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO BUST THE ZONE BY SHOOTING.OUR BIGS GOT POINTS IN THE PAINT BUT OTHER THAN JOE DO YOU REALLY WANT SALIM PENATRATING A ZONE LIKE THAT. CAN YOU SAY INSTANT TUNOVER. AND HE KNOWS THAT THATS WHY JOE WAS THE ONLY GUARD GOING TO THE HOLE.

2)woodsen did a great job coaching last night I just hting he should have made sure we were intense from the start. Before tipoff the hwks were all smiling and laughing like this game was already in the bag. These are the teams that you have to be on guard the most for B/C they are hungry. Thats why we always beat the big teams B/C they underestimate us. BUT now were a good team so we have to be ready for that.

3)I do agree that woody needs better offensive schemems but when LARRY BROWN is your mentor what do you expect? He just needs a good offensive coodinater. I doin’t know who we have now but he’s not that good.

4)In woodys defense I honestly bellive that this is the first year that the hawks have a COMPLETE team. Thats Excluding injuries of course. By the end of the season I belive we will be very good or at least readyo take that next step….whatever that is. I do not belive firing the head coach will do it. That will just mean that the hawks will have to learn a whole new system in a short amount of time…..not good. Just give it time the seakn isn’t over until april. Besides our injured player are playing tonight.

5)Ummmm Al Horford is not a bust. whover typed that logg off the internet please. I have a sneky suspicion you were joking though.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 17, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

WOW!!!!!! Spit that venom-I love it. Come on people we lost to Seattle,there is no need to start panicing. Before the game who actually thought D Wilkins would go for 41 with defenders hanging all over him-I didnt. Basiclly D.will and JJ canceled ea.other- J chillz -played well ,but that one missed free throw is stuck in my head. KD had the b-ball godz with him on that last shot in 2ot. I mean without Jsmoove and acie i thought we played ok. Some of woody’s line ups were questionable. Where was ZAZA in the 2nd half, Sheldon came in with some fire after the missed dunk…. never saw him again. We need more than jj going one on one at the end of games….. Coaching…..Come on Woodro,the clock is ticking. O Seattle will win 32 games this year-in the west at that-they are better than we think good luck tonight fellas Go hawks!!!

By doc

November 17, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

ray if d. wilkens can pile it up on us yi isnt the one to worry about. mo and redd will not give him the ball, they wont have to. last year they ate our lunch because their guards were better and they had more bigs. we will see about how it fits this year.

yi has done some different thngs thus far, bounded well, gotten a few blocks and scored in double figures in all but two games so it will be interesting to see what he brings to this game. horford is fine and a stud and doing the things we wanted from shels that we look to have wasted a pick on and had to get his look alike. so it wont be to compare nor really to say i told you so other than to point out if shels had done it we could have had yi or to have gotten roy instead of him we would have another big shooter to break up zone defenses like last night. i really didnt doubt horford but there were a lot of guys out there that trashed yi and just look stupid for how they expressed themselves about their preferences. they really had no clue.

By doc

November 17, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

ray. yi also gives you the 7 ft 1 guy who has an outside shot to break up zones. remember, my thoughts were more to what added dimensions he gave us as hoford does what shels was supposed to do; it makes sheldon obsolete. just plain bad team balance. now where have i heard that before? not even looking to the marketing. just plain stupid.

By reese

November 17, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

Yes Ken, as I said before it was an entertaining game. I also emphasized that they lost to a 1 and 8 team right after losing to an 0 and 8 team.

As someone who has played basketball, I do realize that any 1 team can beat another. I can also recognize that the way Seattle played tonight and the way washington played last sunday has a lot to do with the play of the opponent (Hawks).

The reason that Seattle was 1 and 8 is that they allow other teams to place themselves in position to win games and those teams executed.

The hawks had at least 10 of those chances and did not execute. (1)Childress missing free throws; (2)horford missing free throws; (3)horford throwing a perfect pass to joe johnson at the end of regulation and joe missing the shot; (4)salim missing open 3 at the end of the first regulation; (5)woodson not calling a play for someone to set picks for joe johnson to drive to the lane like billups drove to the lane against the hawks; (6)like marvin williams getting a long rebound, starts dribbling down the middle of the court, with Joe on his left and another hawks player on his right. Instead of pushing the ball down court for a fast break, he passes to joe on the wing before as they both are at half court and then doesn’t run to the left to now become the wing and let joe go to the middle to execute a fast break; (7)like allowing seattle to out hustle hawks players to loose balls; (8)like allowing seattle players to get offensive rebounds down the stretch; (9)like allowing little earl watson to get a layup down the stretch; (10)like allowing damien wilkins score 41 points and not 1 hawk scoring more; (Bonus)like 10 seattle and hawks players enter the game and 9 seattle players score and 8 hawks players score as well as the minimum amount of time that a seattle player plays is 6mins and the combination of time that two of the hawks players don’t even equal that time. Which means that the seattle finishers have a little bit more energy and less fouls down the stretch.

Again, the game was entertaining, but some of us are looking at key facets of the game and making suggestions/observations to hopefully make the players understand the repurcussions of their lackadasial play, the coaches aware that it OK to trust bench players and give them more time and that it would be nice to see someone else on the positive end, besides josh smith, on the NBA TV or ESPN top ten plays. Kevin Durant’s game winning shot was the number 1 play and Damien Wilkins was the number 1 player on NBA TV for Friday night.

By hawks-4-life

November 17, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

You know what i cant believe this. What did I do to deserve this. Being a hawk fan. This is one of the times it hurt. I went out last night, had a blast, bag a chick and was bout to get u know what but first i check the score to see if we won. It made me so sick i kicked the chick out. This to me is very frustrating, i back woodson but this is unacceptable

By reese

November 17, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

salimfan, yes salim brought the ball down court, but he like Royal Ivey were not playing point guard. His sole focus was to bring the ball down court and immediately give the ball to jj or marvin on the wing.

He never tried to penetrate and kick, he was never involved in a pick and role with a big man and he never tried to push a fast break.

OK he played 37 minutes and produced stats that he can get playing in 10 minutes. I expected more from him. But, when your playing not to make mistakes I guess you can be happy that you stayed on the floor for 37 minutes. Maybe I just see the game a little differently that others.

By ray

November 17, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

khao, that’s not hard at all. A center could get you the blocks and rebounds, as well as the tough lane/post defense that keeps most guards and swingmen from driving in for dunks and layups. All that, and he won’t need to come from the weak side to do it. Imagine putting someone like THAT into the starting lineup next to Horford. Our defensive and offensive abilities would increase dramatically.

Josh is a decent defender, particularly against other forwards and some guards. However he owes a lot of his blocks to his jumping and timing ability, and to being able to come from the weak side. Put him up against a guy that wants to bang inside or can jump as well as he can, and he’s gonna get into foul trouble or simply get toasted all night because he’s not that kind of defender.

Fortunately for us, Horford is. Just ask Chris Wilcox, who had to work dang hard for what he got..when he could get it.

Trust me, anyone who is talking seriously about trading Smith is thinking about getting a good center (or center prospect at the least, along with other assets). Not talking about just throwing the guy away for something of lesser value. Trying to make the team better and more balanced is the goal. Of course, if you think Josh Smith is the best kind of player there is to have no matter what, then you aren’t trying to hear this anyway.

And the only problem with talking about us losing when he’s not available to play is how do you account for us losing when he is playing? Personally, I think we’d have won if he was still out and we had Acie. He brings another dimension to the game as well. It hurt to have them both out.

Doc, I know what you’re saying. I just figured if Yi does well, you could say it loud and proud here for those who trashed him. Not that they’re still here or anything…

Yi brings a Dirk Nowitzki type of offensive dimension. The difference is, I think he’s got more speed and athleticism, and potentially a tougher defender (if not already). Not to mention, he might be more inclined to play inside on occasion against other bigs. Based on what I’ve seen so far, I figure once he gets some experience under his belt, he’ll likely become a fixture in Milwaukee and make Villanueva all but obsolete. But what do I know.

Ken, I’m not even going to go there with you right now. Well…I say I’m not…

By I.MUS WRITE

November 17, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

H-4life thatz funny …. fa sho.I to had a sick feeling when KD hit the three pointer,dont think I woulda put her on the bricks though.I know tonight is a back to back game -but we must come out and play aggressive ball toinght. HMMMMM we couldnt stop D.wilkins and Wally World had 16pts while sleep walking….. just makes me wonder what we will do against, Redd,Mo Will,YI and Bogut. Josh i hope the quad is better cause we gonna need every swat tonight. I know we cant go back,but how much better would this team be with B.Roy vs.Shellhead…. just a thought

By I.MUS WRITE

November 17, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

H-4life thatz funny …. fa sho.I to had a sick feeling when KD hit the three pointer,dont think I woulda put her on the bricks though.I know tonight is a back to back game -but we must come out and play aggressive ball toinght. HMMMMM we couldnt stop D.wilkins and Wally World had 16pts while sleep walking….. just makes me wonder what we will do against, Redd,Mo Will,YI and Bogut. Josh i hope the quad is better cause we gonna need every swat tonight. I know we cant go back,but how much better would this team be with B.Roy vs.Shellhead…. just a thought

By ray

November 17, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

Reese, I hear ya. One of my frustrations was that small lineup. Horford was practically up against Seattle’s bigs by himself in much of the second half. Where was Zaza? He would’ve helped on the boards, which would’ve made a difference. Especially at the end of both overtimes when Seattle kept getting the ball back 2 or 3 times on the offensive end after every shot. I mean really, we had Horford and 4 guards (yes, that includes Chill for all intensive purposes). That ain’t near enough beef when dealing with Petro, Wilcox, Collison, etc. And you’re right, those guys were missing a bunch of shots and couldn’t break the zone.

Seems to me that Zaza didn’t have a problem breaking the zone a few times with midrange jumpers…so again, where was he? ON the bench!! This is where I blame Woody, and I don’t care who keeps wanting to exonerate the man!

By ..................

November 17, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

ray you are not to bright, Yeah the HAWKS almost won last night. But they still sucked. They where pathetic on defense the entire night. I hope Smoove heals fast we are going to need him. He is the heart and soul of this team. I saw no energy from the guys last night, and on top of that Woody refused to give Shelden or Solo any minutes which was dumb considering we have a game tonight as well…

By Ken Strickland

November 17, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

REESE, I’m in agreement with most of what you said. However, I don’t think we LET DWilkins score 41pts. He was simply unstoppable whether he was shooting 3’s or driving to the bucket with someone all over him. He was simply in the zone and couldn’t be stopped. Believe it or not, his output wasn’t what beat us. JJ came within 2pts of matching his point total, and had more assists. Therefore, JJ matched or exceeded JWilkins output.

What made the difference was our inability to get anyone else consistently involved in the OFF, especially Marvin and/or Salim. We need an OFF set like Detroit has for RHamilton, so we could get someone else going as easily as flicking a switch. Running a series of picks to free JJ, Marvin or Salim, against a box and one, would have been so easy. It would have forced them out of it real fast. Switching on picks is very difficult from a zone, especially a box and one.

I wasn’t trying to single anyone out. I just wanted some of us to lighten up a bit on the negative reactions. OK big RAY. You know you get involved my friend. I don’t want to limit anyone’s passion, just redirect it toward more towards the positive. I’m looking forward to tonights gm. This young team is going through its 1st taste of adversity. How they handle it will determine the overall results of our next 74gms. Consider, if we win 50% of our remaining 74gms we’ll end up with 40 wins. That would definitely put us in the playoff hunt.

By Astro Joe

November 17, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Ando, that’s right, no asterisks. Injuries are part of the game. That’s why roster are more than 5 deep. Phoenix beat the snot out of the Bobcats without Amare. We lost to Seattle in 2OT without Smith and Law. This lost counts just like the one to the Wizards and the Suns win counts just like the Bobcats victory.

Check out Wilkins stats coming into the game, he can no longer be considered a journeyman. After the game, there was a lengthy interview with his father, Gerald. They have taken a systematic approach to Damien’s development. First few years, they worked on defense becasue Gerald said that is the only way an undrafted NBA player stays in the league. This past season, they focused on offense. I’m guessing Damien was probably averaging at least 16-18 points before this game. And if you watched it, he was nailing some tough shots against JJ the whole night. Game should have been won with Chill at free throw line with 4 ticks left in regulation. But he gagged.

Don’t lose sight of a few very important developments from last night’s game. Lue sat on the bench during most of the second half, despite starting. Woody went with Salim & JJ in the backcourt, even in crunch time. That was HUGE. Salim made an absolute brilliant pass to Childress with 5 seconds on the clock in regulation. Only Chris Wilcox’s insane athleticism allowed him to hack the heck out of Chill to send him to the line (where he choked). But Salim could have easily had a defining moment had that dunk been converted or Chill hit the free throws. Also, Salim played very solid defense. That game was too fast for Zaza or Shelden, Solomon could have played more but Horford was doing all the grunt work and doing it well. I have no problems with the young guy playing all that time on the floor. Wilcox/Collison would have used Solomon as a toothpick.

By Professor

November 17, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Ryder, I think the Hawks are much more potent on offense when JJ handles the rock and sets up the play. We have seen it in the Hawks win this year. When JJ gets a little less than his average and has to dish the ball a little, the Hawks are more effective. When he scores 39 like he did last night, the other players seem to be a bit out of the game. Plus with Salim in the starting lineup JJ wont have to do as much scoring. He can drive and dish out to either Marvin or Salim to hit the open jumper. And if they miss or if JJ misses a jumper, you have Horford and ZaZa cleaning up the glass.

By Professor

November 17, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

what a joke, That top 5 draft pick this year belongs to the suns. At least we will have alot of television coverage tonight….because of Yi and the Bucks……I’m so depressed. I really don’t think this town cares about winning anymore.

By new jersey faithful

November 17, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

the hawks WILL win 2nite!!!!!!!

By Professor

November 17, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

I am really excited about tonights game. This will be my first time seeing Yi in the NBA. It will be nice to see what he can do against Horford if he gets some time against him( I know they play different positions ). But seriously its way too early to judge whether or not Yi is better than Horford or if the Hawks will make the playoffs. 82 games give you alot of time to fix some things you know. Also alot of people say that Yi is only good cause they got Redd. Last time I checked we had JJ. GO HAWKS!!!!!

By I.MUS WRITE

November 17, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Ken S. I feel you bro. there is alot of negativity on the board. Wilkins hit 41 and he flat out could’nt be stopped period!!! JJ had 39 and we still loss so…. thatz the way it iz -sumtimz the ball does’nt bounce your way. We are 8 games into the season, itz November for cryn out loud.Salim’s shot was off last night but i like what i saw, Good all around play last night by Salim. It didnt help that his first 3 shots came with the clock running out, and the guy was fouled twice on those shotz.Salim is gonna be okay.The Hawks will be fine.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 17, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

Once again itz november and we are talking about the draft lottery. Why worry about things we cant control.We dont have a 1st rd pick in june, but we have cap space-this team needs proven veterans anyway.

YI- Slasher/Scorer = 20pts 6rebs 2 steals a game

Horford- Rebounds/Banger = 17Pts 11rebs/ 3assists/2block/ defensive beast in the paint

This is what they will be in like 2-3 years, there’s really not much difference, but for my money give me big AL, with those stats and above average D he is a better choice.Both these guyz will have good careers.

The last thing this team needed was a 7 foot stick figure hoisting up shots and getting man handled in the paint. We have enough shooters. JJ Salim,TLue, JS. Okafor and Wilcox would have ate Yi’s lunch,but i ‘ll bet they respect horford after 1 game

By I.MUS WRITE

November 17, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

Once again itz november and we are talking about the draft lottery. Why worry about things we cant control.We dont have a 1st rd pick in june, but we have cap space-this team needs proven veterans anyway.

YI- Slasher/Scorer = 20pts 6rebs 2 steals a game

Horford- Rebounds/Banger = 17Pts 11rebs/ 3assists/2block/ defensive beast in the paint

This is what they will be in like 2-3 years, there’s really not much difference, but for my money give me big AL, with those stats and above average D he is a better choice.Both these guyz will have good careers.

The last thing this team needed was a 7 foot stick figure hoisting up shots and getting man handled in the paint. We have enough shooters. JJ Salim,TLue, JS. Okafor and Wilcox would have ate Yi’s lunch,but i ‘ll bet they respect horford after 1 game

By ray

November 17, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, I’ll agree on the assessment concerning Salim. We’ve been begging to see the guy play, and last night he did. While he wasn’t as effective offensively as I’d hoped, his defense was indeed much better than it was last year. I’m glad he got to play some serious minutes. More likely sooner than later, he’ll be busting zones with more play. Especially if AJ manages to stay in Woodson’s doghouse for whatever it is he did.

Ken, it’s really nothing personal. My instinct is to simply vent my frustration. I was right there with you all last season trying to keep up the positive vibe, all for naught. I made jokes about those who had “negative” attitudes, and tried to keep it light-hearted. All the while, knowing what the problems were and that certain things would help the team overcome them, but the people in position to do those things just won’t/haven’t done them. It’s aggravating, even with a pair of very nice and talented rookies. Yet here we are saying the same “there’s X number of games left in the season” that we were last year. Last year we started 4-1. It meant nothing, because injuries, attitudes, and worse happened. Now here we are with even better talent, still no true balance, a whole new game plan that isn’t in effect for an entire game, and a worse record. What precisely are we supposed to think? Sure, I’d like to see where we are after 20 games. Or 40 games. Or any number of games. And when the winning percentage is .333, then what will you say? I’ll be glad to be more positive when there’s more to be positive about…besides a few glowing individual performances and a good game or two. I’m tired of the “bright future”. When does the future become the present, eh?

Having said that, yeah it’s only 8 games. Like I said, will we be saying the same thing after half the season is over? “If we just win all of our games, we might be able to sniff the butts of those who made the playoffs!” Sorry, couldn’t resist the sarcastic urges.

Hope you’re right, Ken. But I’m not holding my breath.

By……. I’m not certain if you misread what I wrote or what. But your statements don’t seem to coincide with anything I wrote. Try again. Uh, Josh is the heart and sould of this team? Yeah, okay. I guess JJ’s his sidekick then,and we probably can win night in and night out without him. And Horford is just a bust, despite averaging 10 boards a game. Marvin’s only averaging 17/18 ppg (or something close to that) by sheer luck. Chill is just a no-name bench guy who happens to get some stats. Acie is a rookie who lucked into a starting job. It’s called a team, fool! Yep, no doubt about it, without him in the game, the others just can’t perform or have any energy whatsoever. Wonder how Joe managed to score nearly 40? And you say I’m not so bright…

Oh and uh…Shell got into the game, he just didn’t get enough minutes.

By honest_abe

November 17, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

ken: seems like you have the losers mentality to me. you’re content with seeing an entertaining loss to a one win team at home? with the hawks brass harping on how much quality depth they have been able to accumulate how come it wasn’t evident last night? even with two starters out that still shouldn’t be enough to lose to seattle a team projected to be one of the worst in the nba….

also, the whole “woody gets his players to play hard” crap has gotten old. it wasn’t too bad when the hawks had an extremely young roster but it’s different this year. the hawks either need to take a serious step towards the playoffs or the last however many years rebuilding have been wasted.

ken i think its time for you to stop making excuses for this club and start expecting more.

By reese

November 17, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this

Ken and Salimfan, I’m not saying that salim should play less. I’m saying that he needs to be aggressive when he is on the floor. But hey, maybe that the play that woodson has drawn up, dribble across court and quickly give it up.

By Taurus

November 17, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this

Two very underrated players that would turn around the Hawks could be had for dirt cheap. Jose Calderon/TOR and David Lee/NY. We are desperate need of a PG, and Calderon is a good PG that averages 6 assists a night while only playing 18-25 minutes a night. David Lee is 10PPG and 10REB, only getting 18-25 minutes a game, but when he gets starter minutes he’s a beast. If you had a starting five of Calderon, JJ, J. Smith, David Lee, and Hortford, you would make the playoffs.

By Ken Strickland

November 17, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

HONEST_ABE, I never said I saw an entertaining loss. I said I saw an entertaining gm. The fact that we loss doesn’t take away from the fact the gm was truely entertaining. In the NBA all teams lose. No team I am aware of has ever gone undefeated. Do you really think Boston is going to go undefeated. Last night, Seattle did to us what we did to Dallas and Phoenix earlier. Our youth, inexperience, injuries, or last yrs losing record didn’t matter in either of those gms. We just out played two teams that have proven over the yrs to be superior teams. Last night, the same thing happened to us. That’s not making excuses, it’s accepting reality.

Last yr both Phoenix and Dallas got off to slow starts. I believe Dallas ended up with the best won/loss record in the NBA. I also believe Phoenix won 60 or more gms as well. No one should be foolish enough to think the Hawks’ success or failure will be determined by the first 8 gms. Last yr we started out like champions, but our season was determined by how we played the entire season. We’ve all seen gms that showed how good this team is capable of playing. When our 2 starters get back, I can see us putting more of those gms together. An NBA season is a series of ups and downs. The trick is to minimize the downs, and maximize the ups.

If you really think I have a losers mentality, what kind of mentality do you think you’re expressing. Why don’t you reread your last post and see if you can manage to extract anything even remotely positive from it. When I made my earlier comments, I just wanted to make a point not hurt anyone’s feelings.

By MJ3

November 17, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

I can’t speak for Ken or anyone else, but what I’m asking is why people are blaming this loss on Woody rather than the players. Woody didn’t brick two key free throws. Woody wasn’t the reason we were playing 3 guys short.

If Childress or Horford hit either of their free throws, or if Durant hadn’t hit a desperation fadeaway 3 at the buzzer in 2OT, no one here would be saying that the Hawks won BECAUSE of Woody. So why are people saying now that we lost BECAUSE of Woody?

It’s BS.

By RANDY

November 17, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this

FIRE WOODSON!!!

By RANDY

November 17, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

MJ3 how many close games must we lose until we get accountability. How many turnover must we give away before we start understanding fundamentals. This is coaching 101. Not to mention leaving Salim in there when he wasn’t hitting jack. Or substituting Mario, our 11th man rookie in the final minutes. Obviously you are clueless when it comes to basketball or you wouldn’t be posting such stupid comments.

FIRE WOODSON!!!!

By curious

November 17, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

I can’t speak for Ken or anyone else, but what I’m asking is why people are blaming this loss on Woody rather than the players. Woody didn’t brick two key free throws. Woody wasn’t the reason we were playing 3 guys short Two reasons why people are mad at Woody. The Hawks got the ball with 3.2 second left in regulation. Woody had used the final timeout with over a min. left in the game. Which is incredibly dumb in a close game. You could of advanced the ball and got a good shot. Second, playing Al Horford & JJ the whole second half and two overtimes is not smart. You have to find a way to get them some rest. Take one out with a min left in the 3rd and bring him back to start the quarter. There are usually fouls so a min. of playing time can actually end up approx 10 min of actual rest.

By randy

November 17, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

Yea I was wondering that too last night why Zaza didn’t play any minutes during the final quarter and overtimes… Jesus Christ you can’t tell me Mario West and Shelden “the landlord statue” Williams are better than Zaza. Please…The only thing Woodson is good for is standing around with a dumb look on his face.

I guess ineptitude is rewarded in the Hawks organization.

By RANDY

November 17, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

Bold:FIRE WOODSON Bold:FIRE WOODSON Bold:FIRE WOODSON Bold:FIRE WOODSON Bold:FIRE WOODSON Bold:FIRE WOODSON Bold:FIRE WOODSON Bold:FIRE WOODSON

By doc

November 17, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

clyde, dude, monroe-louisiana. you got to be kidding me. i know you are hurting man. when can a get the fire saban t-shirt. i’ll pay twice the amount for it that you charge for the other ones.

gosh, this one is looking ugly too. one stgep forward and two back…. .333 is our game.

By RANDY

November 17, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!! FIRE WOODY!!!!

By RANDY

November 17, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

WOODY HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF SUBSTITUTING IN THE 4TH QTR?? WE NEED OFFENSE, HMMMM, DO I SEE SALIM AND ZAZA ON THE SIDELINES, MAN THEY SURE DO LOOK FRESH…

FIRE WOODY!!

By Sick and Tired

November 17, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

Well, this Bucks game has done it.

I am constantly made fun of by my friends for being a Hawks fan. I have stood by for 3 straight years, defending Billy K’s pathetic picks, Mike Woodson’s head-scratching substitutions.

It is over. WE MUST FIRE MIKE WOODSON and BILLY KNIGHT. The entire organization is such a joke, they are not worthy of my support anymore. Sickening.

This team is too good to be this bad. I just want to throw my computer through the wall. Mike Woodson is a buffoon. Where was Salim tonight? Where was Zaza last night? Why is Anthony Johnson, the only veteran on the roster disgruntled with things?

WHY IS NO ONE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE CONTINUAL MEDIOCRITY?

By A-ville Ranger

November 17, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

Man o man tonight Josh Smith played the way that a star plays.Then with 1.07 left in the game down 5 JJ takes a 28 footer…miss’ then a few seconds later Smith takes a 27 footer…miss’..game over.I give up, these guys just don’t have the smarts when the game’s on the line.The team may just be too young to get it,I really don’t know at this point.I do think it’d be a much better team if they could trade for Jose Calderon.JJ and Jose in the back court…that’d be a big improvement.

By reese

November 17, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

Tough loss tonight. Anyone who still wants Josh Smith to be traded, I don’t no what to say to you anymore.

The good: Josh Smith

The bad: Woodson continuing to play Marvin and Josh Childress at the power forward position. Woodson continuing to play shelden williams as the center. Woodson leaving salim on the bench until 33 seconds left in the game. Billy knight not making a move to bring steve francis and steven hunter to the hawks to have players who can play at the same intensity as josh smith. If not those two players, someone else who can play uptempo.

By A Thinking Fan

November 17, 2007 11:13 PM | Link to this

Ranger u got it RIGHT! u win with VETS! u rebuild with a youth movement, but augment it with enough VETS to tide u over… Plus, most important of all, u have an owner/management group that ain’t BROKE OR CASH POOR!!!

By reese

November 17, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

a-ville ranger, did you notice that Milwaukee had point guards in the game and we had jj (offensive) and jchill (defensive) rotating between the point.

Do you notice that we don’t have a healthy point guard who can break down a defense or put pressure on opponent point guards on defense. We don’t have a center who can dominate the lane.

We all have people who laugh at us because we are hawks fans, but that is no reason to quit. Remember sticks and stones may break our bones, but someone laughing at us will never hurt us.

By curious

November 17, 2007 11:21 PM | Link to this

Reese You do know that Steven Hunter had knee surgery and is out for at least a month?

By Khao$

November 17, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

It is evident, the Hawks players are playing hard. However, for two nights in a row, we’ve lost close games. Usually a play here or a turnover there will cost you. However, looking at these past two games and how close they were, it’s clear…it’s time for Woody and Billy to go.

Case against Woody (using today’s game for example): Although he makes these guys play hard, his substitutions are horrendous. The one thing Ty Lue can do for us is hit big shots. Yet, in the 4th quarter, he’s a no show. The Bucks big men overpower our smallish lineup in the paint, and yet Zaza is no where to be found. Granted, Zaza ain’t much help defensively. However, by virtue of his height, he may have been able to grab an offensive rebound or two that would have led to points.Woody is a great assistant. I’ll go as far as saying he’s a great motivator. The guys play hard for him. Yet, he hasn’t drawn up a play in 4 years that has helped the Hawks win a game.

Case against Billy: As Steve Smith pointed out all night long, the other teams PG penetration killed us. Our point guards couldn’t stop theirs and their point guards wouldn’t allow ours to penetrate. Given Acie Law and Speedy (the two point guards we have that could penetrate) are injured, it must be noted one is an oft injured NBA backup for most teams and the other is a rookie. Thus, even if they played, we have no reasonable evidence to support either would make a difference. To add insult to injury, if we need a playmaker, one of our 4 points is too slow and washed up (AJ) and the other is a shoot first/4th quarter specialist (Lue).Therefore, we have a team constructed to run, but most of our PG’s can’t push it. Using Phoenix as a template, although Barbosa isn’t a PG, he can push it if Nash isn’t in the line up. The Hawks have NO ONE outside of Acie and Speedy (BIG maybe) who can penetrate. Josh Smith does a better job than our PG’s. This is a problem caused by Billy’s inept managerial skills. If we’re a running team that is small (ie Phoenix and last years Golden State team) we must dictate tempo to offset our small front line. Our front line can actually work if our back court was constructed properly. However, it isn’t and we’re suffering.

Conclusion: The Hawks cannot win the close ones. I don’t want to hear about injuries. We didn’t complain with Amare and Josh Howard was out. I think this bears a direct correlation to our management team of Billy and Woody. These players (with the exception of the WSH game) are playing their collective asses off. However, their management teams are not putting them in position to win. I REALLY believe another coach, who knows X’s and O’s, could get something out of this bunch. Who that coach is, I don’t know. That’s for the Spirit to decide. However, before this season becomes a lost cause, I suggest the next few games should determine if Woody and Billy should go. I honestly don’t believe we should have lost to Seattle, Milwaukee, and even Detroit. We’re coming up on the short end of the stick on close winnable games. To me, that smells of coaching. The Spirit group should use the same logic they used against Hartley on Woody AND Billy before the season is lost and the moral of the team sinks.

To quote the great prophet Clyde: FIRE BILLY AND WOODY!

By Matt

November 17, 2007 11:34 PM | Link to this

You can now count me among the “Fire Woody” crowd. I’ve been sticking by him for two years, but no more.

I’m now running under the assumption that he should be fired. Every day that he isn’t is a mistake. I’m gonna stay with that opinion unless the Hawks turn this around and change my mind.

By mykhalc

November 17, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

Khao$, good read man.

the only thing i can add is i wish you cats would have seen the play IVARONI drew to up to get a last shot at tyin’ the MEM vs DAL game. MEM lost but the play was GREAT!!! they actually ended up with 2 3pt attempts to try to tie the game. great play and recognition by his players.

has nothin’ to do with the HAWKS except just followin’ your point about what a difference the coach can make!!!!

ACIE is desperately needed for this team…PERIOD!!!

By A Thinking Fan

November 17, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

an owner/management group that’s BROKE OR CASH POOR can’t afford to hire a TOP-NOTCH COACH or GM now!

By reese

November 17, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this

Woodson post game statements are a joke. He says (1)we need to play better defense, (2)we scored enough points to win, (3)their bench played better than ours, (4)we need to get guys back from injury, (5)maybe our team was tired because we played a double overtime game last night and (6)we took too many outside shots down the stretch.

(1)Play offense defense down the stretch taking marvin williams out on defense. (2)You only scored enough points to win if you have more points than your opponent. If you can’t stop em, out score them. (3)Not only did their bench play better, their starters played better. Did your bench play in positions where they were evenly matched or were they out of position. Maybe you need to talk with your GM to get better starters and better bench players (4)When AC was here, you didn’t play him down the stretch anyway. Speedy has been here enough to even worry about having him back. Even if Lorenzon Wright was here, he would be useless and you wouldn’t play him anyway. (5)Here is a novel idea Mike Woodson, if your team just played a double overtime game the night before, maybe your favorites don’t need to play over 35 minutes tonight. Lets see, jj 40mins, mw 35mins, jc 37mins. (6)Who calls the plays for 5 on the floor. Why didn’t you have a true point guard on the floor. Why didn’t you call a play that would have had jj drive to the basket, a pick and roll with josh smith or back door screens for Josh down low.

On a side note, its funny hearing Dominique talking about the hawks needing to play better defensive and that we are scoring enough points to win. Didn’t Dominique play with Tree Rollins who blocked over 2000 shots of the man that Dominique was covering.

By Melvin

November 17, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this

Coaching loss this game. Woody stay with the big backcourt (JJ & Jchill) too long. Why does he insist on playing players of position. Better yet, putting them in position to fail. Has Woody ever sub for Jchill once he enter the game. We need another playmaker badly. Hence, Reese and I suggesting for Steve Francis…. For those of you that want to trade JSmoove, I hope you saw the game tonite. If it was up to me, Marvin would be the one I would trade for a big man. But let’s face it, there’s no quality big man on the trading block away. So we’re probably better off with our current core..

By Clyde

November 18, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

Hey much love tonight. Right now he is the center piece of this team. Anyone thinking about trading him needs to quit treating thier noses.

Tonight’s loss makes me wanna start chanting.

Hey Hey Ho Ho Billy And Woody Gotta Go!

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By reese

November 18, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this

Curious, I did not know that steven hunter was out with knee surgery.

We need someone besides Shelden. He missed a dunk and he didn’t block anyone’s shot who drove to the lane when he was playing center. He got dunked on and was lucky they didn’t call a foul. I think that the ref felt sorry for him. I don’t think that he jumped 2 inches.

By Khao$

November 18, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this

Mykhalc, thanks for seeing my point. I’m not saying fire Woody or Billy because it’s the vogue thing to say around these parts. However, I think our flaws are directly connected to them. NEWSFLASH HAWKS FANS: These guys are playing hard. Mostly every team in the league (sans San Antonio) makes mistakes nightly. Plus, we’re young. However, our coaches and upper management isn’t using our strengths to help these guys win games. I’ve bashed Marvin in the past, but I believe he’s turning the corner. Josh Smith is playing good ball and taking the time to learn from the Dream. Chillz is willing to come of the bench and give us 15pts and hustle plays. Horford grabs every rebound he can. Shelden, although he isn’t going to light up the stat sheet, crashes the glass. Lue hits shots to keep us in the game. JJ, when nobody else can do it, hits the big shots and keeps us afloat. They are playing hard. But I dare somebody to tell me something Woody has done from a strategy standpoint to put them in position to win? From an emotional standpoint, I’m p** and I want Woody to go because of what I’ve seen the past two nights. However, from a logical standpoint, I believe that we have enough game evidence to say it’s time for a change. 3 years of this crap (I don’t count the 13 win season, he was dealt a rough hand) is too much.

Clyde, print up the t-shirts baby!

By Aaron

November 18, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

Looking at coaches who’ve managed to survive at least 200 games, these are the ones with the worst winning %:

Sidney Lowe 25.7% Tim Floyd 28.0% Mike Woodson 28.2% Bill Musselmann 28.8%

Woodson’s 3-6 start has actually improved his %.

By It's time, Marvin

November 18, 2007 2:57 AM | Link to this

Stop shooting so many jumpers and start taking the ball to the hoop Marvin!!! You shy away from any contact, and have no physicality in your game. Mix it up for once! Get tough. Get some heart. He was the No. 2 pick??!! Has he ever shown any heart?

This team is going nowhere if Marvin doesn’t finally become a man.

By tb

November 18, 2007 5:57 AM | Link to this

Woodson is the first step necessary. There are coaches out there. Any coaching would be a start.

We are still very thin at PG. Even with Law back, we are paper thin. Lue is a situational shooter; what Salim was supposed to be.

AJ is ageing, yet he started when the Hawks were winning early. now he is in Woodson’s out-house. It’s interesting that yet another VET is unable to deal with Woodson.

Woodson has GOT TO GO.

What could Caleron do for this team and what would it take to get him?

Speedy is dead weight at this point, and very heavy. but we need to swallow and move on. Speedy will have to come off the books before too long. He just can’t play. Law can’t do it alone. Law and Calderon would look very good with Lue on the bench.

By doc

November 18, 2007 8:02 AM | Link to this

folks these are still the hawks of last year. the only thing that has changed is matt is now as frustrated as the rest of us and has joined the likes of anakin joe on the dark side asking for someone to be fired.

how one could expect huge change with only two draft choices is beyond me. the only thing that changes the culture is true change and as atf pointed out this team has been built with a shoe string budget by the broken atlanta spirit. you arent going to change them in spite of the necessity to do it because the nba cant be played on a nhl budget. what then happens is you are left trying to do it piecemeal by picking up draft picks to fill out a roster. unfortunately that is like trying to put together a five course meal by picking up the crumbs under a gypsy’s table or with the scraps left over at mcdonalds restaurant. the only thing that can change right now is to move on to a new coach. is it fair to woody? maybe not; by now we have seen he is coaching to the best of his abilities and the players seem to be playing their hearts out. so what is left?

billy has delayed growth in the franchise by his moves during the draft but again he has SEVERE limits on how he can approach his rebuilding so he picked up a few crumbs at the wrong time when others might have been more appropriate. to his credit he has tried, like the mistake in getting the “safest” best big at the time in shels who looks less and less like an nba player instead of the best player left, a shooter/penetrator in roy. the choices just werent the ones we needed to make at the time without doing what jj says was promised in going out and getting him real help and lorenzen “hasnt done anything” wright hasnt filled the bill though he came at a reasonable price . we all know that you can’t do it without spending money and just like in draft picks it is a crap shoot so if “mistakes” are made a la speedy with his injuries and then you are left unable to go out and correct it.

well matt, how is the kid, about time for the personality to begin showing? maybe that can get you back into the light.

by the way, the first sentence of this blog, we now know the answer. if it was a resurgence it was one of the most short lived one in nba history. funny, how one win by this team is considered a resurgence. sad truly sad.

By Scott

November 18, 2007 8:04 AM | Link to this

What is the common theme to this disaster - STILL no point and STILL no center. Knight’s refusal to draft a point or center or go out and get one just won’t allow this team to compete. Shelden and Horford ARE NOT centers, and don’t have the HEIGHT to play that position. Teams drive the lane against us at will. Their true point guard can penetrate and dish, past our bevy of bad points. Billy, FU.

By Flappin Hawk

November 18, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

After a pathetic night in ATL these kids came out and played well against the Bucks. Only a few NBA teams have the ability to win the 2nd game of a back to back home and away when the other team is coming off an off day. It’s been that way in the NBA for the 25 years I’ve been watching. Woody should be booted, but this team is getting close. The fact that they almost won that game is amazing. The bonehead turnovers and bad shots drive me crazy but I love watching these kids play. Anybody who is not impressed with Horford is blind. Marvin’s shot is so much better. He needs to develop confidence in the 3 and learn the Drive-Stop-N-Pop from inside the lane. JS just needed NBA game speed to get better at what he learned this summer. They will make the playoffs this year despite Woody. GO HAWKS!!!!

By ray

November 18, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

Uh-huh. Just what I expected to see. Excuses. And ridiculous ones at that.

I don’t understand why people just aren’t getting it. The only positives you get from losses like this and the one to Seattle is individual performances. Take last night for example: Josh takes it to the hole much more than usual, instead of trying his long-distance brick-laying. As a result, he has a career night. We lost the game.

What do people do? They say “wow, look what Josh did, if only his teammates were as good as he is and played as hard.” Gee, JJ did the same the night before. And we lost that one too. I seem to remember another blogger saying that Josh Smith is the heart and soul of this team, and how much better our chances would be with him in the lineup. Ok smarty, how is it that Josh comes back, scores a season high, and we lose WORSE than when we played against Seattle without him? I almost don’t want an answer to that, because it is sure to be something incredibly stupid. The POINT is the team is still horribly unbalanced, the coach is still doing the oddest things (game-time plans, substitutions, drawn-up plays), and the team is still losing games we should be winning.

Reese, I am not one to bash Smith because he is most certainly uniquely talented. However, all-stars have been traded and will be traded. I advocate trading him only if we can get assets that make this team better. Otherwise, it is stupid to trade him. Besides, it was one 38-point night. He has yet to average 20 points per game (something Marvin is closer to doing, oddly enough). And if we’re going to go by such a theory, then Seattle should consider Damien Wilkins untradeable, as evidenced by his 41 point outburst. Yet somehow I don’t think he’s more highly thought of than either Durant OR Jeff Green…

For anybody that is still protesting the idea of letting Woodson go: keep giving him a pass if you want. He isn’t getting it done, no matter what. And we don’t need a new coach right off the bat, let Larry Drew take the reins. Evaluate what kind of job he does, what kind of relationship he builds with the players, how they react and respond to him, then go hunting for a new head coach if he doesn’t seem up to the job.

Look at Memphis: they promoted Ivaroni; he built a decent relationship with the players, adopted a style that was compatible with their talents/abilities (and that they were willing to do), and before you knew it, they were on the road to being successful again. They’re already better than us (more or less) despite having more new faces and just as much “youth” as we do. In addition, they’re better balanced, and more poised to make the kinds of trades that will make them better as a team.

By smartguy

November 18, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

Matt, my friend. All that nastiness this summer?

A-villeR had a same key observation as I did: with just over a minute left, and down 5, with side out, what does Woody call? Iso for Joe. I said all summer that Woody’s best play out of a TO is basic isolation of JJ. No picks, no penetration. Just Joe taking a few dribbles, then jacking up a low-percentage long range jumper. GREAT COACH.

I’m as mad and frustrated as eeveryone else. The only difference is that some of us have been seeing this for a lot longer. Clyde, I suggested a few games ago that it was time to take the next step beyong the t-shirts. Your chant is a good start.

Ken, you wondered why some of us are/were so negative. Well, we knew the outcome of the game before it happened, just like we already know the outcome of the season (if things stay the same).

MJ3, where you at? You set the lofty goal of 8 wins out of the first 20. You still think there’s a chance? I love to see you defend your boy, but please. Get real.

By ray

November 18, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

“We almost won?” Almost winning is losing. I don’t see “almost winning” as progress. Yeah, going from getting blown out to almost winning means you learned how to actually score. It also means you have talent. Talent that is badly coached, poorly assembled, or ill-used. Or all three. Still means you’re losing, and I’m sick of hearing it, sick of seeing it. Positive side, my a$$. Welcome to the dark karma…

By LEA

November 18, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Smoove is going no where RAY, sorry to hurt your little feelings, It sure wasn’t his fault we lost last night. But you still want to find a way to blame it on him. It’s obvious you don’t know what you are talking about so I’ll leave it at a that.

By preston

November 18, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this

It is obvious that a change has to be made…..and it has to start with the coach…..What we see with Woodson is as good as it is going to get…he will not do any better than what his record tells us…72-183, he is not going to catch lightning in a bottle and turn this thing around..it is just not going to happen……my only question is how long is it going to take to do the obvious???

By ray

November 18, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

LEA, read carefully what I said. You will see that I didn’t blame the loss on him anymore than I blamed the loss to Seattle on Joe Johnson. My point is that no single individual wins these games. People keep saying that they do, but they don’t. If you can’t read, then I feel sorry for you. If you can’t comprehend, then you are beyond help.

The reason why you’ll “leave it at that” is because you lack the sufficient cognitive ability to formulate an idea, rebuttal, or any coherent debatable point with which you could make a viable argument. If you were able, you’d see how many times I’ve said that he isn’t to blame anymore than any other player, and that he shouldn’t be traded unless we can get someone that makes the team significantly better than it is. If ignorance is truly bliss, you must be happy ALL THE TIME.

By doc

November 18, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

ray, memphis didnt quite do it that way but whatever, it is along the lines of what we need to do so we agree in principle. ray, it needed to be done this past summer when iavaroni and adelman were available. no, memphis put their bench coach in the place of fratello last year and let them play hard however they wanted to to find their strengths and gain a better draft position. we cant quite take that same route to lottery nirvana as our team will never have to be accused of since we dont have a first rounder this coming year, we can only assess “talent”. the griz then went out and got what they thought would fit their needs in iavaroni who was sitting to the right of d’antoni last year on the suns bench. they are also cash crunched so it will be interesting to see how it turns out there.

as far as limited resources and the excuses of we needed to get healthy (i wonder which number that one is on the cliche list?), is it just nash with the suns or is it the coach who has no bigs and a limited bench with injuries and they still go ahead and are winning and he does it year after year? probably a combo but obviously they are on the same page together which i cant say for the hawks as their individual games flourish from time to time but their win totals just dont change.

no one is teaching them how to win or i am just not seeing any difference gained in coaching in practice to reveal nuances i havent seen before? they continue doing the same old things at the end of games to lose winnable games. maybe as many say here, billy is a good evaluator of talent. what you cant argue based on records at memphis and here, unfortunately, he hasnt ever hired a successful coach and shouldnt be allowed to do it again. that is unless we are working on the blind squirrel system of coach selection.

now wasnt sidney lowe a coach for the griz hired by billy? ouch! if it was.

By LEA

November 18, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

didn’t even bother to read all that gibberish you typed, I am done responding to your idiotic posts.

We really need Acie back fast, And time for Horford to re enter the starting lineup. Za-Za sucks…

By Ken Strickland

November 18, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

I can’t argue with most of the comments so far. I wouldn’t advocate firing Woody right now, but I wouldn’t be fazed one bit if he was. A new coach would have to come from within if the team is going to take a step forward. I know Larry Drew’s gm was built around speed when he was a player.

The thing that’s so puzzling to me about Woodson is this. He has shown that he prefers the half court OFF, yet we don’t have a definitive half court OFF in place. We didn’t have one before the decision was made to go up tempo. We have at least 3 or 4 players(JJ, Marvin, Salim and maybe JChills)that can be very effective coming off screens. Just install the same sets and options Detroit uses for Hamilton. Depending on the situation, you just plug in who you want to take the shot. No DEF can double a player without the ball, or that’s in motion and/or coming off screens.

A set OFF like this would help the team overcome its habit of fading offensively during 2nd qts. It would also help our OFF rebounding since everyone will know where the shot will be taken and who’ll be taking it. And just as importantly, it puts pressure on the DEF instead of the other way around. With our current use of isolations and screen and rolls, everyone has to clear out and open the lane. I JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY HE CAN’T SEE WHAT’S SO OBVIOUS WHEN IT’S SOMETHING HE’S ALREADY EXPERIENCED.

Several of you have addressed my question and I can’t complain. After all, I did ask the question.

By A Thinking Fan

November 18, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

SPIRIT = BROKE & CASH POOR!

Folks it starts at the top and travels down hill…

By Ramon

November 18, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

I’d rather have Isaiah Thomas as the coach now.

By ray

November 18, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Doc, I know I left some parts out. They let one of the assistants (whose name escapes me) run things when they cut Fratello loose. He allowed them to run, which they wanted in the first place. Managment, seeing that this worked (and probably knowing this before/despite Fratello’s philosophy), brought in a guy who could fine tune the system.

Ken, you’re not alone on that one. No one can figure it out. We are all puzzled, and pretty soon, we’ll all be sporting the Woodson sideline look.

LEA, your response alone means you read at least part of the post. It just so happens that the nature of your response also indicates that I was dead on target about you: you can’t understand what’s being written, and your weak, primitive retorts are all that can be expected in return. No thought whatsoever involved. Now go lick your wounds and stay out of grown folks’ conversations…or get back-handed again.

By LEA

November 18, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

dude I said let it go, I’m not worried about what you have to say anymore..

By ray

November 18, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

ATF, that would be the ticket. Unfortunately, when are they going to either get forced out or be forced to get it together? Nobody knows the answer to that question. But you would think or at least hope that business as usual would prevail. Eventually, it has to become obvious that Billy and Woody are a hindrance to production. So, the chain of reasoning flows backwards: if Billy wants to keep his job, he fires Woody and gets a more effective coach, whether it’s someone from the current coaching staff, or someone from outside. Either way, he’s making a change, and that would be more likely to temporarily appease the bosses. Then again, who’s to say the bosses are even paying enough attention to know what the problems are…

By kwooden1

November 18, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

I listened to the entire game last night and couldn’t bring myself to blog until now. I would be angry about last night’s loss but that would imply that I was expecting a different result.

Good I was surprised that the team came back from a 15 point deficit to take the lead. It also sounded like a bad call at the end of the game on JJ, which would have totally changed the game. Hawks up one + the free throw and Bogut fouls out. JS was great and carried the team.

Bad After the call on JJ, Woodson did not get the team focused and they never recovered. Substiutions were OK at best, but he should have gotten Salim in much earlier in the game.

It’s early in the season and I see the team slowly improving. Seattle game was just one of those things. Wilkins didn’t shoot nearly that well last night and they got blowout in the second half. (against Charlotte) J Smith is really taking it upon himself to get better everytime he steps on the court. Woodson is getting better, but has a long way to go. (by the way I thought he should have been fired at the end of last season) This next game is really big for Woodson. He has to get the team believing that they can win. I’m sure they can win but I’m more concerned with how they play offensive against a team the can really defend. The Hawks have to execute and defensive rebound.

GET HEALTH! BRING THE ENERGY!

GO HAWKS!

By The Dark Karma

November 18, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

Woodson is the right man for a job. He is not the right man for THIS job. If Knight cannot see this, then he too is the wrong man for the job he is supposed to fulfill. One would think that the failure of the first would spur the second to take action. But it has not. And yet this is not unexpected, considering the failure of the owners, who have yet to succeed at anything at all. One failure begets another, and another.

This franchise claims that it makes progress, but wishes to complete the journey of a thousand miles by taking backing up every other step after taking the first step. Thus, it has remained where it is. Any progress at all turns out to be insignificant baby steps.

To compound matters, there are people who wish and choose to continue to believe that which is so obviously, blatantly false. No, there is no light at the end of the tunnel. No light at all.

By mykhalc

November 18, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

fellas, i much as some of you might disagree, the players we HAVE are really the least of my concern. as KHAO$ said last nite these cats are playin’ hard and IN MOST games. JS is playin’ MUCH better/smarter now as opposed to the first few games of the season. JJ has his game and attitude adjusted. MARVIN is more than solid. HORFORD is the man. and ACIE was improvin’ as a pass first PG in his last 3 games before injury. so my focus on TALENT is not stressed (that much LOL)(i know interior defense is a whole other post not to be covered now)

but DOC and preston, hit it on the head (and as others have said too). to para-phrase both, this is as good as it will get with WOODSON…PERIOD!! i wrote a long post a few days ago about how WOODSON was probably the man for the job 4 yrs ago given what the franchise needed to do. but NOW someone else is needed. and it really is that simple right now.

but as ATF reminds us about cash flow, i am mostly concerned about BK’s level of committment to WOODSON. i think that more than ANYTHIN’ will keep the team from gettin’ the kind of coach that can help them maximize their talents!!???!!! i just hope i’m wrong in this case!!!

By reese

November 18, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Ray, you disappoint me on this one. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Josh Smith is the best all around player on this team. Joe Johnson is the 2nd best all around player.

Stats: ppg, rpg, apg, spg, bpg

Marvin: 16.9, 6.4, 2.3, 0.9, 0.6

Joe: 22.9, 4.0, 6.3, 1.1, 0.1

Josh: 19.4, 7.1, 3.4, 2.4, 3.6

BK has already taken the approach of trading 2 all stars for 1 and then gave that all star away. Now, you willing to support the trading away our best all around player who has proven that he can dominate on both the defensive and offensive ends. The player who provides excitement to the fans.

Yes, Marvin’s shot has improved this year. But, his defense and his intensity is no way near Josh Smiths’. People say that Josh gives away points with turnovers, well Marvin gives away points with inactivity on the floor.

As far as losing by 9 with Josh Smith scoring so many points versus losing by 3 without Josh Smith shows to me that Josh Smith is not the reason we are losing. A loss is still a loss no matter how much you lose by. There are so many other factors as you mentioned that can determine the loss. If JJ, JC or MW played better, then last night wouldn’t have been a loss. If Mike Woodson used his bench better, then maybe last night would not have been a loss. However, if Josh Smith did not score his 38 points, block 3 shots, make 2 steals and provide excitement, then the loss would have been much worse and the game less exciting.

Give the hawks a Steve Francis type point guard, a steve hunter type center and woodson willing to play JSmith at the small forward, horford at power forward and new center, then this team will be even better.

By Professor

November 18, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

I don’t think anyone was saying JS was not good. I think what most people are saying is that he gives you the best chance at a trade. JJ makes too much money and I dont think Marvin will bring much. That plus the fact that JS will be making JJ type money soon so they have to do something or they will be stuck with this same losing group they have now.

By ronald

November 18, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

it’s time for a new coach for the hawks seeing them play you wornder what are they doing Mike Woodson let them play like they are stupid if the player don’t do the right thing then it fall on the coach the way they play you wornder? Billy Knight did’nt bring any help for Joe Johnson you know time is running out the fans we are getting sick of seem them play dum bastball i know their young but don’t blame it on youth it the coach who is at blame

By randy

November 18, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

HATE TO REPEAT MYSELF BUT:

FIRE WOODSON!! Gee wonder why JJ’s shots were all short last night??? Hmmm…maybe cuz you played him the night before for 3 hours without rest.

AND WHILE YOU ARE AT IT:

FIRE BK!!, BK should be fired if for nothing else drafting Shelden “the Landlord Statue” Williams.

So in summary: FIRE WOODSON and FIRE BK!!! Is that simple enough for the Atlanta Spirit management? Or should I repeat myself again?

By travis

November 18, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

That is it!! I am going on record as saying that I am through with the hawks, until they get rid of woody!! He can not keep these boys motivated. They have given up 2 losses to the worst teams in the league in Washington and Seattle. Go figure. Woody cant run an uptempo game because it goes against his coaching philosophy. At 3-15 they will fire woody and bring in someone to spark the team. even though it maybe to late then.

By travis

November 18, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

That is it!! I am going on record as saying that I am through with the hawks, until they get rid of woody!! He can not keep these boys motivated. They have given up 2 losses to the worst teams in the league in Washington and Seattle. Go figure. Woody cant run an uptempo game because it goes against his coaching philosophy. At 3-15 they will fire woody and bring in someone to spark the team. even though it maybe to late then.

By DB

November 18, 2007 6:31 PM | Link to this

Face it Atlanta…..we will always be in LOSERVILLE….I love all my Atlanta teams but we have nothing to look forward to.

By reese

November 18, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

Professor, what do you think is the better option.

(1)Trade Shelden for Steve Francis and trade Lorenzen Wright for Steven Hunter, or Patrick Obryant or David Harrison

or

(2)Trade Josh Smith for a Biedrens type center. If not Biedrens, then whomever you think is a fair replacement for Josh.

By Steve T

November 18, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

What the Hawks need is for JJ, JSmith, and Marvin to lead the team. These three guys need to avearge 20 plus point the rest of the season.

The Kawks need to add another scorer or two the bench. The Hawks need someone to keep the game going while JJ goes to the bench.

By randy

November 18, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

I was screaming for Brandon Roy all last year before the draft. That would have been a scorer to releive JJ. But of course we got 2 bumbling forwards that can’t shoot. We will be paying for a long time for BK’s stupidity.

But please don’t distract us from our HATE on WOODSON.

FIRE WOODY!! 3 long years of blowing games in the final minutes and leading the NBA in turnovers. Time for some accountability.

By HB Ando

November 18, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this

Reese, dude, I think you’ve been missing the point. Nobody (that’s a credible regular, at least) is calling for the Hawks to trade Josh. The point is that his value in trade, in addition to his expectations for contract size (or a term sheet he might sign, as a restricted free agent), might give us the best chance to get a legit center. And that Marvin, though he doesn’t do the things Josh does, is showing that he could be a legit 3, to play along side Horford, as a legit 4, and a true center that Josh could bring.

The idea is that Marvin’s continued improvement, and the fact that he plays, essentially, the same position as Josh, gives the Hawks OPTIONS, come next summer. I haven’t heard anyone say he NEEDS to go. And all I’ve said is this team needs balance, and considering that we won’t have a first round draft pick next summer, if some team offers Smith a ridiculous deal, we have the depth, at forward, to optimize his value in a sign-and-trade.

Truth is that with Smith’s best game ever, the Hawks LOST. If that doesn’t speak to the difference between individual talent, and winning, I don’t know what does.

And NOBODY is talking about letting Smith walk. Just opining that he’s replaceable, and that he probably has the most value of any of our assets. And, taking into account the underlying belief that the Spirit are broke-a* owners, really just getting folks ready for the possibility that they’ll pass on committing crazy-a* money to Smith, preferring to leverage him for a legit center, and get another year to decide how much they want to pay Marvin, when he’s up for his extension.

With the exception of one perfect season, Iverson never won s** in Philly. So, he’s clear proof that individual numbers don’t necessarily equate to winning titles. Hell, for that matter, so do ‘Nique’s career numbers.

Do you want a winner, or a team that has a superstar?

Look at the Spurs. Strongest positions on that team are the point and the post. I’ll repeat, again, that there hasn’t been an NBA Finals, since before ‘99, that did not include either Duncan or Shaq. How many titles did Barkley win, with his monster numbers?

In the last few years, KG, Iverson, Allen and Shaq have been traded. Why in the world would anyone think that Josh Smith is untradeable?

Josh Smith has a career game, and we lose. ‘Cause he can’t play center. Bogut, who came into the game averaging 11 points, 9 boards, and 1.4 blocks, went off for 21-10 and 4 (with 3 steals thrown in, for good measure). Mo Williams (who I said, 3 years ago, that we MUST go after, when he was still looking for a decent contract) nearly had a triple-double, with 11 points, 10 dimes and 8 boards (and 2 picks).

So you, Reese, are worried about keeping Josh Smith, while we continue to lose to teams that have centers and point guards. Brilliant. I recommend that you replace Billy, when he’s fired, so we can keep some continuity for ongoing failure.

Still need to build a balanced roster (damn, I’ve been saying this for 3 years, since the blog started). Need a new coach, new GM, and new owners.

Clyde=Truth

By HB Ando

November 18, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

WRONG EVERY SINGLE TIME.

And THAT is why we still suck.

Billy’s hubris, or arrogance, if you prefer, has finished off this organization. If not for the dumb, lottery-driven luck of last summer, we’d be cooked. As it stands, there’s enough talent here, mis-matched as it is, that, hopefully, his near-term successor will have something to work with, in balancing out this mess.

I’m reading more and more far-fetched logic, as folks try to make wine out of the water that is 3-6, with losses to juggernauts Seattle, Washington and the Bucks.

How about: what ‘ya see is what ‘ya get?

How about: (not the first time this has been said) adding nothing more than 2 rookies is pretty unlikely to take a 30 win team to 41 wins?

Please, can we just get some sanity? This ain’t hatin’! This is cold, hard reality slapping the rose-colored glasses right off of your faithful face.

Don’t take it personally. And don’t let the truth hold you hostage.

It is what it is…….

By Steve T

November 18, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this

I like option 1. (1)Trade Shelden for Steve Francis and trade Lorenzen Wright for Steven Hunter, or Patrick Obryant or David Harrison.

This option give us a guy that can score some points. Francis will be on the bench. When JJ and Law go to the bench, we will have Francis to do the scoring.

Right now any center will be better than Wright. If Hunter can play defense, block shots and rebound, I say pull the trigger.

The first team will be: SF - Marvin PF - Josh Smith C - Horford SG - JJ PG - Law

The second team will be: SF - Josh Chill PF - Zaza C - Steven Hunter SG - West/Salmin PG - Francis

By HB Ando

November 18, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

Gosh darnit, I hit the tab button and lost a lengthy comment on Damien Wilkins. Now I don’t fee like reconstructing it (which actually led right into WRONG EVERY……).

Oh well.

By HB Ando

November 18, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

Man, this Francis stuff is too funny. Does anyone really think that Adelman has a bone to pick with Francis? He’s been brought in to win. Truth is that Francis can’t beat out Alston, James or Head, for minutes. Even TMac was quoted as saying that Francis “was not the same player he used to be”.

It’s time to let go of the notion that Francis is still a star, much less a starting point guard in the NBA.

Guys, put the kool-aid down…

By Ramon

November 18, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

Ando, I hear what you’re saying about Smooth bringing the most value. However, I would HATE to see this team trade Smooth BEFORE they bring in a new coach. If you don’t have a coach who truly knows how to run an offensive scheme, then you don’t know exactly what you have in Smooth.

Maybe at the end of the season Horford will be ready, but right now Horford is not defensively ready to handle the 4 position night after night on his own. Horford will get abused by veteran PFs this season because of FOULS. Smith and his weakside blocks make Horford look as if he’s doing a better job than he is.

Personally, if anything I would rather see Zaza, Sheldon, and Lue (AJ) traded for even a Theo Ratliff type center. Everyone DRILLED BK for going and getting a second string pg (even though Speedy wasn’t his first choice). So why would BK go and get a center (Beidrin) who doesn’t even start on his OWN team? Wouldn’t that be the same as trading for a second string post player?

More than any kind of trade, this team needs a new coach and new attitude so you can TRULY see what is on this team. In my mind, this is a good team if they run the right offense. I believe if they turned back to the offense Sacramento used a few years back, they may be able to get some good things accomplished.

I’d be interested in seeing what someone like Greg Anthony, Mark Jackson, or even Doug Collins could possibly do with this line up, it couldn’t be any worse than Woodson. The sad part is I actually like Woodson, but I think he’s not allowing his assistants to INSTALL an offensive scheme.

By Astro Joe

November 18, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

Ramon, that’s a fair point. But it won’t likely happen. A credible coach won’t touch the job until the ownership nonsense is resolved and I’m not sure that Larry Drew will earn the respect of this current roster to make a huge difference with individual players (although his offensive concepts may boast the team to a few more wins).

Here’s another dilemma I haven’t read about here (or elsewhere). If we do sign Smith to a $55M+ deal, what does that mean for Marvin? Smith’s raise would fit into the salary slots currently owned by Lo, Lue & AJ. After that, seems to me the Hawks will be right at the soft cap number. Most fans seem ok with losing Childress (who will almost certainly win more titles than Smith because he just seems that type of guy). But what does that mean for Marvin as he enters his time to discuss an extension? Choose Smith in the summer and you’re almost telling Marvin that he is destined to be dealt. This ownership situation will likely force Childress’ exit and may ultimately do the same for Smith or Marvin.

By reese

November 18, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this

HB Ando, Ray and anyone else who continue to bring up Josh Smith’s name in trade talks. I do understand your point, I just don’t agree with the notion of taking the strategy of trading Josh Smith to balance out this team.

Smith has proven that he can score (albeit in different ways than marvin). Additionally, he brings the blocks, steals, assist and rebounding that are better than Marvin. I don’t think that you guys are appreciating those intangibles out of a player. So yeah, he would demand a better player to be returned to the hawks in a trade.

However, I would rather acquire a center who can bring the same shot blocking as Josh Smith and still have Josh Smith and Al Horford to block shots. My approach is to have multiple shot blocking/altering players, not just to substitute a 7’0 center for Josh Smith. Leaving Marvin Williams in the mix on defense is the flaw in taking the approach of saying we can just substitute a shot blocking center for Josh.

My additional approach is that we still need to acquire a point guard with the skills of a Steven Francis who plays at the same intensity of a josh smith. Someone who can get assist, steals, rebounds and push the tempo. Non of our starting guards had a rebound in the Milwaukee game. Michael Redd pretty much shut down JJ on his own and didn’t need double teams.

So yes, all stars have been traded through the years and there was always someone like me saying don’t do it when Milwaukee traded Kareem, when philly traded wilt, when Orlando traded shaq or when Ray or HB Ando said Josh Smith would bring the best in a trade scenario and that should be considered.

By reese

November 18, 2007 10:06 PM | Link to this

Come on HB Ando, Tim Duncan’s career high was 53 points against Dallas and the spurs lost. Tim is a superstar and that team was balanced. So to knock Josh Smith for scoring 38 doesn’t mean that he is not a team player.

If I didn’t know you better, I’d give you the fed/x award for the day.

By reese

November 18, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

Good choice steve t.

Even though we know it won’t happen, its an acknowledgement that the team needs more than just a center or more than just a point guard. They need both to occur.

Its also an acknowledgement that there are approaches that can be taken that don’t repeat the approach taken by billy knight of trading away your best and not receiving the same in return just for the sake of rebuilding.

By smartguy

November 18, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Maybe we can throw in Smooth in the trade for Stevie F. Both parts are ridiculous.

Poor Falcons. Leftwich was a Woodson-like decision.

By HB Ando

November 18, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

Reese, I’m not knocking him for his performance. I’m saying we still lost. And I thought that was what we were worried about here. Wins and losses.

And Joe, that’s what I’m alluding to. Are you going to pay them both? And Chills? Probably not.

Simply put, you make a choice, leverage the value of the other, and look to balance out the roster.

Look, I’ll say it again, I love what Smith is capable of. But one has to look no farther than Utah, and AK47, to see the risk in giving a max contract to a young guy with an incomplete game, and a questionable head on his shoulders. So if it takes max money to keep him here, if someone else is willing to sign him to an offer sheet for max, I think you have to look long and hard at whether you’re willing to build your future around a 22-year old, who shows signs of a limited hoops IQ, and signs of thinking he’s something he’s not. I, frankly, don’t understand why the organization has completely restricted him from shooting 3’s. At least, for the time being, make it a firm NO. Look what he does when he stays in the mix. Why does he continue to shoot, and miss, 3’s? The fact that he stubbornly continues to jack them says he wants to be something he’s not.

That’s a problem for me. And it’s a potential problem for the franchise (again, see AK47).

We can go round and round, but it’s not up to us. I don’t want to dump him, and I don’t want to give him away. But I also don’t want to see us capitulate to an immature freak of an athlete, and see us hamstrung when the inevitable change in the front office and head coaching positions, change.

As I said before, the market will dictate whether he’s a keeper, or trade bait. I’m just saying that the emergence of Marvin, as a legit starter, gives the team more leverage than it had going into this season.

By mykhalc

November 18, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

RAMON, you’ve definitely been watchin’ a different HORFORD than i have. he is ALREADY a far better 1-on-1 defender than JS is now. go back and check his play against WILCOX since that was the game he started at the 4 in place of JS. fact is JS is not a good 1-on-1 defender…weakside defender, GREAT, no doubt. you need to re-check tape on that one bro…

By Clyde

November 18, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

I’m going to the game on Friday Nov 30th. Come to the game with me with your FIRE BILLY AND WOODY t-shirt on. Its getting cold outside so put a thermal on under it.

And what happened to Clyde=moron? I knew he wouldn’t last long.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By HB Ando

November 18, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

Ray, it’s 11:05, tried to return your call. Call the mobile if you are around.

By Ramon

November 18, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry but Smooth is just as much worth a big contract as JJ is. Its easier to find a scoring two guard than it is to find a forward that brings the things Smooth brings. And to give up on a player who would only be a junior in college would be CRAZY. We’re not talking about Darius Miles or Kwame Brown who signed their contract on potential.

Last year, Smooth was already one of the most complete forwards in the league. If Smooth has so much value with everyone else in the league, why wouldn’t he have value on his OWN team. That truly makes no sense to me.

Even at the point, I’m tired of the AK comparisons because Smooth is WAY better than him. And he’s better than Marion in my mind also. Every one says Smooth needs to improve on this or that, but Smooth has shown more improvement than ANYONE on the roster. When Marvin was drafted he could shoot, but couldn’t defend and wasn’t very aggressive. Has that changed yet?

As I stated before, change the coach, not the roster. And call me foolish but I’d rather see JJ go before Smooth.

By Professor

November 18, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this

There is no way I would give JS a max contract. Period. I like him, but he aint no superstar. I dont really think the Hawks are trying to get better when I see people like Frye and T.J. Ford get traded for next to nothing and we get people like AJ. Freakin ridiculous. Not to mention the Falcons just got blown out. Makes me ashamed to live here. We should have hired Doc Rivers to coach this team when we had the chance. Oh and reese I dont want Francis. And I dont think anyone wants Wright either.

By Clyde=moron

November 18, 2007 11:58 PM | Link to this

Still here, Clyde. And you’re still a moron.

By mykhalc

November 19, 2007 12:27 AM | Link to this

Ramon, i won’t call you foolish but i’d definitely say the JS meter is a little tilted to one side too much.

regardless of JS last game, there is NO WAY you put the ball in his hands at the end of a game and expect him to make a good decision. now that does not mean he won’t. but i just would not EXPECT IT!!! and that, to me, says a lot about where he’s at in his development as a player right now.

but i wanna make sure i acknowledge that JS’ last 4 games or so, he’s been playin’ some GREAT and SMART ball!!! so as many have said, his ceilin’ is HIGH!!! but he is not yet the kinda decision maker nor complete threat that JJ is…yet. but that’s not to say he can’t become that because he can. he’s just not there yet.

a lot of the posts have been on the money tho comin’ from different angles. but i think the common theme in all of them is be ready for some changes. ’ cause somebody will probably NOT be here next year. and if BK is over the 6’9” thing, then JS might be the leveraged used. but if BK is not over the 6’9” thing then DO NOT be surprised to see both MW and JS around for awhile longer. and if that’s the case don’t be surpised to see ZAZA as part of a package to bring in a defensive minded BIG. ZAZA, SHELDEN, and AJ should get an upgrade at center between 8-10 million a year. now who that would be i DO NOT know. but i’d call GS and IND first!!??!!

By HB Ando

November 19, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this

Ramon, I gave some thought to your position. Statistically, Josh, at the same point in his career, is almost identical to AK 47.

They came into the league at the same age. And, if you take AK’s first 3 years, and Josh’s career, to this very day, they couldn’t be more even.

AK, 240 games, 46% FG, 78.7% FT, 31% 3-pointers, 2.0 steals, 2.3 blocks, 6.0 rebounds, 2.0 assists and 13 PPG.

Josh, 234 games, 43%FG, 70% FT, 26% 3’s, 1.0 steals, 2.5 blocks, 7.1 boards, 2.5 assists and 12.6 PPG.

Problem is that AK hasn’t improved. In fact, he’s declined. And his contract is untradeable.

So, I think there’s great risk in giving him a max-deal.

And, again, I didn’t say we should trade him. I just said we’ve got the leverage to, should his demands be unreasonable, and should someone give us a sign-and-trade option that makes the TEAM better.

I’m saying keep an open mind and be flexible. That gives you power in negotiations. Any time a team admits that they can’t live without a player, they lose all control.

Again, look at KG, Shaq and Iverson. Everyone is tradeable.

And changing coaches is a foregone conclusion, so what we do with Josh has nothing to do with the need to get a better coach (and GM).

By curious

November 19, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

Most fans seem ok with losing Childress (who will almost certainly win more titles than Smith because he just seems that type of guy). Astro Joe- Exactly what facts do you base that on? Ando- immature freak of nature Do you know this guy personally? MW stills disappears in games. Chill still is up and down. TLue doesn’t play D. Horford travels all the teams. Everyone on the team makes mistakes. Why are you so hard on him compared to everyone else? I have a problem with TLue throwing the ball to JS & Chill with 3 seconds on the shot clock to shot the three.

By ray

November 19, 2007 7:02 AM | Link to this

Reese, I don’t know what to say. You’re seeing what you want to see. How many times do I have to say I’m not advocating throwing JS away? Ando has explained it better than I have numerous times. You see an untradeable player. I see a guy who’s very talented, needs improvement, and is yet to be named an all-star. And he probably won’t be named one this year either. I feel like you’ve got tunnel vision and will support the idea of Smith’s greatness no matter what. You can’t seem to see the team due to your view of the one player. I am looking at a much bigger picture and the options involved. However, I think we will have to agree to disagree on the subject. You say you understand what Ando and I are saying, but I don’t think you do. Either that, or you simply just don’t agree, don’t want to agree. But I’m okay with that. The only thing is, if you keep arguing against the concept, I’ll keep arguing for the concept. It’s just a concept consisting of several options. Not an absolute in any one direction.

Ramon, listen to Mykhalc. Smith’s defense, particularly his shot-blocking, is related to his ability to come from the weak side. Weak side assumes there is a strong side. That strong side is Horford. Horford has the strength to defend all fours (although 4s like Garnett are too long and tall for anybody, Horford included). Smith does not. The Seattle game was a perfect scenario set forth for you by Myk. I guarantee if you interviewed Wilcox right now, he’d tell you what made that game difficult for him: Horford. The man never gave an inch to Wilcox. Also, Horford blocks shots too. And he does so on his own, straight up, on the strong side. Not taking anything away from Smith, just putting it into perspective. Horford is not Sheldon, we have the real deal this time and if people can’t see it, they are blind or simpy choosing to be blind.

Professor, I agree. Francis is not nearly as talented as people are taking him for. What has he done recently to suggest otherwise? What is with the obsession with going after other people’s castoffs…

By smartguy

November 19, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this

Francis has been given away by a few teams, and now he can’t even crack the rotation. The fact that ya’ll are debating him is scary.

FIRE WOODY NOW!

FIRE WOODY NOW!

By Ken Strickland

November 19, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this

What this team needs right now, player wise, is a backup PG(like Speedy, but healthy)that can maintain our uptempo style. Also, Zaza is one of our best outside shooters, but he won’t shoot enough from the outside. For some reason he wants to be a penetrator. When he does, he gets out of control and the turnovers start. He’s too slow, can’t jump(especially when moving to the basket)and is a poor finisher(he gets a lot of his shots blocked and a lot of turnovers because he can’t get enough lift to dunk under the basket.

His job should be to stick the jumper and pull his man away from the basket. Against the Bucks, that approach would have posssibly negated some of Li’s blocks. As far as JSmith and Horford are concerned, Horford is a much better defender. He keeps his man in front of him by using his feet and maintaining a wide base. That position makes it more difficult to block shots. If JSmith played that type of DEF, his ability to block shots would be affected. Together they make an outstanding tandem.

By Ramon

November 19, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Hold up, I didn’t say Horford was a sorry defender. I said the veteran PFs will be able to get away with a lot of fouls on him and that THIS SEASON would play a huge factor. Also, Horford presence didn’t stop the Sonics from penetrating any time they wanted to either. I never said Smith was a better defender than Horford, but they have different impacts on the game.

With the AK comparison, remember when he came in, many nights he was the number one/two option. When Smooth came in he was WAY down the list. Not to mention I may be crazy, but I would like to think if Smooth was playing for a hall of fame coach named Sloan, his production would be very valuable.

Someone said the next coach shouldn’t have anything to do with Smooth, but I don’t understand why not. With this team, if they’re going to run a lot then they NEED a player like Smooth on the court ala Marion. And as I was always taught ’ you don’t sell a car until you have a real mechanic look at it’. And until we have a REAL coach conducting the team we don’t know what it is that we have. With the talent on this team, theres no reason they shouldn’t reach 100 points 75% of their games.

By jlewis

November 19, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

For everyone in love with Josh Smith, there is a reason that he is always open, the other teams sucker him into jump shooting and he isn’t smart enough to figure it out yet after 4 years in the league. How low of a basketball IQ can you have to constantly repeat the same mistakes over and over, GET IT OFF THE GLASS AND GIVE IT TO A GUARD THAT CAN DRIBBLE.

Also, for the people that would rather see JJ go, answer this one question, who else on the team makes other players better? Mike Woodson needs to go as coach, when he inserted ZaZa back into the line-up, they became the same old hawks. The talent is there, Woodson needs to go.

By ToeKnee

November 19, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Sekou, is it really that hard to write these things?? you get to follow the hawks and write about basketball for a living!!! NO EXCUSES!! having the same blog up for a WEEK is PATHETIC, in every sense of the word.

By smartguy

November 19, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

jlewis, I love J Smooth for a lot more than simply getting open. Further, I love him for things he does on the defensive end. And finally, did you watch the last game? Dude went to the hoop time after time. (you know I wholeheartedly agree that the talent is there and Woody should go) Ok, last point, I don’t think we should get rid of either player. Other than Spirit sucking, I don’t see why they can’t both be around long term.

By Melvin

November 19, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

For those of you who want to trade Jsmoove. Please tell me what legit center we are going to get in return? Keep in mind, the intangibles (points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals) this guy brings to the table. If Smoove is our best trade asset then we must receive equal or better value in return. If we are going to simply trade him for a player that’s unproven with debatable upside then I said we keep him. If we know that Duncan or Shaq played in the previous 8 finals then why would another team trade their legit big for Jsmoove???? Therefore, if we are not going to get a player of equal (or better) value that plays in the post then I say we trade Marvin to balance our roster. His point production is far easier to replace than Jsmoove all around production.

By test

November 28, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

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